1 00:00:18,965 --> 00:00:26,405 Awes: THIS MAN, TODD KOHLHEPP, IS A RAPIST AND A SERIAL KILLER. 2 00:00:26,413 --> 00:00:29,863 HE'S KILLED SEVEN PEOPLE THAT WE KNOW OF. 3 00:00:32,310 --> 00:00:35,070 -WHAT WAS THAT LIKE FOR YOU? -MECHANICAL. 4 00:00:35,068 --> 00:00:38,308 WHEN KALA BROWN IS RELEASED FROM A SHIPPING CONTAINER, 5 00:00:38,310 --> 00:00:41,720 THE WORLD FINDS OUT ABOUT HIS MURDEROUS PAST. 6 00:00:41,724 --> 00:00:43,074 Man: WE'RE GONNA GET YOU OUT OF THERE, OKAY? 7 00:00:43,068 --> 00:00:44,098 Garrett: HE'D BRING KALA IN HERE. 8 00:00:44,103 --> 00:00:45,863 AND THIS IS WHERE HE COULD CHAIN HER. 9 00:00:45,862 --> 00:00:47,902 Awes: MY NAME IS MARIA AWES. 10 00:00:47,896 --> 00:00:51,546 I'M A FILMMAKER AND INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST. 11 00:00:51,551 --> 00:00:55,001 EVERYONE WONDERS IF THERE ARE MORE VICTIMS OUT THERE. 12 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,280 HE TELLS ME THERE ARE. 13 00:01:00,586 --> 00:01:02,616 ARE YOU SAYING THAT IT'S MORE THAN SEVEN? 14 00:01:04,344 --> 00:01:09,074 SO I START A DARK JOURNEY THAT I HOPE WILL LEAD ME TO THE TRUTH. 15 00:01:09,068 --> 00:01:10,898 THIS JUST MAKES ME SICK TO MY STOMACH. 16 00:01:10,896 --> 00:01:12,376 I GOT TO GET OUT OF HERE. 17 00:01:12,379 --> 00:01:21,719 ♪♪ 18 00:01:21,724 --> 00:01:31,144 ♪♪ 19 00:01:31,137 --> 00:01:34,097 --Captions by VITAC-- www.vitac.com 20 00:01:34,103 --> 00:01:37,453 CAPTIONS PAID FOR BY DISCOVERY COMMUNICATIONS 21 00:01:37,448 --> 00:01:41,828 LAST TIME ON "SERIAL KILLER: DEVIL UNCHAINED"... 22 00:01:41,827 --> 00:01:44,757 SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF CHUCK WRIGHT AGREES TO DO 23 00:01:44,758 --> 00:01:46,658 A LONG-AWAITED INTERVIEW WITH ME 24 00:01:46,655 --> 00:01:50,235 ABOUT LOCAL SERIAL KILLER TODD KOHLHEPP, 25 00:01:50,241 --> 00:01:54,481 WHOSE CRIMES WERE REVEALED UPON ONE VICTIM'S RESCUE. 26 00:01:54,482 --> 00:01:55,902 SHERIFF'S OFFICE! 27 00:01:55,896 --> 00:01:58,756 WHEN KALA BROWN IS RESCUED FROM THE SHIPPING CONTAINER, 28 00:01:58,758 --> 00:02:01,548 SHE TELLS POLICE THAT TODD SHOT HER BOYFRIEND 29 00:02:01,551 --> 00:02:06,901 CHARLIE CARVER TO DEATH AND ALSO KILLED MANY MORE PEOPLE. 30 00:02:06,896 --> 00:02:10,136 NOT ONLY THAT, SHE SAYS HE'D WANTED TO TRAIN HER 31 00:02:10,137 --> 00:02:13,927 AS HIS ACCOMPLICE TO GET HIS KILL NUMBERS EVEN HIGHER. 32 00:02:24,241 --> 00:02:27,381 IT'S POSSIBLE KALA BROWN WASN'T THE FIRST PERSON 33 00:02:27,379 --> 00:02:30,519 TODD KOHLHEPP WANTED TO USE AS AN ACCOMPLICE. 34 00:02:30,517 --> 00:02:32,897 CHARLIE CARVER'S FAMILY WONDERS IF NIKKI, 35 00:02:32,896 --> 00:02:36,136 CHARLIE'S ESTRANGED WIFE, PLAYED A ROLE IN HIS DEATH. 36 00:02:36,137 --> 00:02:37,787 IS SHE ONE OF THE ACCOMPLICES 37 00:02:37,793 --> 00:02:41,723 TODD ALLUDES TO IN ONE OF OUR FIRST PHONE CALLS? 38 00:02:42,379 --> 00:02:45,309 LIKE SO MANY STRANGE LEADS IN THIS CASE, 39 00:02:45,310 --> 00:02:47,860 IT'S CERTAINLY WORTH LOOKING INTO. 40 00:02:47,862 --> 00:02:54,592 ♪♪ 41 00:02:54,586 --> 00:02:56,656 CHARLIE CARVER'S FAMILY KNOWS 42 00:02:56,655 --> 00:02:59,375 THAT AFTER CHARLIE AND KALA WENT MISSING, 43 00:02:59,379 --> 00:03:04,519 NIKKI IS SPOTTED TAKING HIS LAPTOP OUT OF HIS APARTMENT. 44 00:03:04,517 --> 00:03:08,377 THEN MYSTERIOUS FACEBOOK POSTS BEGIN POPPING UP ON HER PAGE 45 00:03:08,379 --> 00:03:12,999 AND CHARLIE'S, INCLUDING ONE THAT IS PARTICULARLY CHILLING. 46 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,480 Shiflet: IT WAS BASICALLY "REST IN PEACE," 47 00:03:16,482 --> 00:03:19,592 OR SOMETHING ABOUT "SHE'S A WIDOW NOW." 48 00:03:19,586 --> 00:03:22,686 AND THAT WAS ON AUGUST THE 31st, 49 00:03:22,689 --> 00:03:26,719 WHICH IS ACTUALLY THE DAY THAT HE WAS KILLED. 50 00:03:26,724 --> 00:03:30,104 HOW WOULD SHE KNOW THAT? 51 00:03:30,103 --> 00:03:34,103 SEEMS JUST A LITTLE BIT TOO COINCIDENTAL. 52 00:03:34,103 --> 00:03:40,413 IT WAS ORIGINATED AS COMING FROM NIKKI'S ADDRESS. 53 00:03:40,413 --> 00:03:43,933 Awes: I ASKED TODD ABOUT NIKKI, AND IN A LETTER, HE SAYS NIKKI 54 00:03:43,931 --> 00:03:46,521 "WASN'T INVOLVED IN ANY WAY ON MY END, 55 00:03:46,517 --> 00:03:48,547 BUT SHE SURE DID SOME OF THE WILDEST 56 00:03:48,551 --> 00:03:52,551 AND UTTERLY STUPID ACTIONS TO MAKE IT SEEM SHE WAS. 57 00:03:52,551 --> 00:03:56,931 I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT DROVE HER TO HER ACTIONS." 58 00:03:56,931 --> 00:03:59,761 I TRY TO ASK NIKKI DIRECTLY ABOUT HER POSTS, 59 00:03:59,758 --> 00:04:03,518 BUT SHE DECLINES MY REQUEST FOR AN INTERVIEW. 60 00:04:03,517 --> 00:04:07,897 TODAY, THERE'S NO QUESTION SHE COMPLICATED THE CASE. 61 00:04:07,896 --> 00:04:11,406 SHE WAS TELLING THE DETECTIVES THAT THEY WERE AT THE BEACH, 62 00:04:11,413 --> 00:04:13,663 AND NONE OF THAT WAS TRUE. 63 00:04:15,896 --> 00:04:18,966 Awes: NIKKI CARVER ISN'T CHARGED WITH ANYTHING IN CONNECTION 64 00:04:18,965 --> 00:04:20,785 WITH CHARLIE'S MURDER, 65 00:04:20,793 --> 00:04:23,173 BUT IT IS DISCOVERED THAT SHE CALLS CHARLIE'S 66 00:04:23,172 --> 00:04:25,932 CELLPHONE PROVIDER TO ASK FOR HIS RECORDS AFTER 67 00:04:25,931 --> 00:04:29,761 HE GOES MISSING, POSING AS A DETECTIVE. 68 00:04:29,758 --> 00:04:32,928 FOR THIS, SHE'S CHARGED WITH IMPERSONATING AN OFFICER, 69 00:04:32,931 --> 00:04:36,031 FOUND GUILTY, AND IS ORDERED TO PAY $2,000 70 00:04:36,034 --> 00:04:39,214 IN RESTITUTION IN 2018. 71 00:04:39,206 --> 00:04:41,546 SHE'S ALSO PLACED ON PROBATION. 72 00:04:41,551 --> 00:04:45,101 THE SENTENCE COMES ALMOST TWO YEARS AFTER CHARLIE'S FAMILY 73 00:04:45,103 --> 00:04:50,593 GETS THE NEWS ABOUT KALA'S RESCUE AND THEIR SON'S MURDER. 74 00:04:50,586 --> 00:04:52,756 HE'D BEEN MISSING 65 DAYS. 75 00:04:55,724 --> 00:04:57,554 65 LONG DAYS. 76 00:05:00,413 --> 00:05:02,003 I GOT A CALL FROM THE ANDERSON CITY 77 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,660 POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND HE SAID, "WE FOUND KALA." 78 00:05:07,793 --> 00:05:12,413 HE SAID THAT THEY FOUND HER AND SHE WAS ALIVE. 79 00:05:12,413 --> 00:05:14,663 AND I SAID, "PRAISE THE LORD." 80 00:05:14,655 --> 00:05:24,685 ♪♪ 81 00:05:24,689 --> 00:05:27,309 'CAUSE AT THAT POINT... 82 00:05:30,482 --> 00:05:33,692 ...I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO FIND MY SON THE SAME WAY. 83 00:05:33,689 --> 00:05:38,899 ♪♪ 84 00:05:38,896 --> 00:05:41,546 Shiflet: THEY TOOK US TO CITY HALL, 85 00:05:41,551 --> 00:05:46,141 AND WE SAT THERE AND WE WAITED AND WE WAITED. 86 00:05:47,206 --> 00:05:54,516 THEY KEPT TRYING TO PREPARE US. 87 00:05:54,517 --> 00:05:57,857 AND I DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR IT. 88 00:05:57,862 --> 00:06:00,142 Awes: AT THE TIME, INVESTIGATORS ARE SEARCHING 89 00:06:00,137 --> 00:06:03,167 TODD'S WOODED LAND FOR VICTIMS. 90 00:06:03,931 --> 00:06:06,411 EVENTUALLY, SOMEONE FROM THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE 91 00:06:06,413 --> 00:06:08,973 LEADS CHARLIE'S PARENTS TO THE PROPERTY, 92 00:06:08,965 --> 00:06:13,095 WHERE THEY WAIT FOR NEWS ON THE FATE OF THEIR SON. 93 00:06:13,103 --> 00:06:17,213 WE STAYED UNTIL WAY PAST DARK EVERY NIGHT. 94 00:06:17,206 --> 00:06:23,586 THEY KEPT ASKING, YOU KNOW, FOR IDENTIFYING FEATURES. 95 00:06:24,827 --> 00:06:27,407 AND YOU KEEP THINKING BACK... 96 00:06:32,137 --> 00:06:37,757 WHEN HE WAS LITTLE -- EVERY LITTLE SCAR, 97 00:06:37,758 --> 00:06:39,858 EVERY LITTLE BIKE WRECK. 98 00:06:39,862 --> 00:06:42,862 THEN THEY WOULD LEAVE US AND GO BACK ON TO THE PROPERTY, 99 00:06:42,862 --> 00:06:44,762 AND WE WOULD JUST BE STANDING THERE, YOU KNOW, 100 00:06:44,758 --> 00:06:50,138 JUST WAITING FOR THE NEXT TINY PIECE OF NEWS. 101 00:06:51,482 --> 00:06:54,622 Awes: IN FACT, NEWS WOULDN'T COME FOR TWO DAYS, 102 00:06:54,620 --> 00:06:59,620 AND IT CERTAINLY ISN'T THE NEWS CHARLIE'S FAMILY WANTS TO HEAR. 103 00:06:59,620 --> 00:07:06,000 AND THEN, ON THE FIFTH OF NOVEMBER, IT WAS DARK... 104 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,930 IT WAS REALLY COLD. 105 00:07:10,862 --> 00:07:12,282 AND THEY ALL CAME OUT. 106 00:07:12,275 --> 00:07:16,135 IT WAS CHUCK WRIGHT AND THE CORONER AND THE CHAPLAINS. 107 00:07:16,137 --> 00:07:18,447 THEY GOT US ALL IN A CIRCLE. 108 00:07:22,689 --> 00:07:24,519 AND THEY TOLD US. 109 00:07:27,344 --> 00:07:34,934 AND I REMEMBER JUST FEELING LIKE PART OF ME JUST FELL AWAY. 110 00:07:34,931 --> 00:07:40,931 ♪♪ 111 00:07:40,931 --> 00:07:45,031 BUT THE ONLY THING THAT I WANTED TO DO WAS TO THANK GOD 112 00:07:45,034 --> 00:07:49,724 THAT THEY HAD FOUND HIM, THAT HE WASN'T LOST ANYMORE. 113 00:07:53,965 --> 00:07:57,275 Awes: CHARLIE CARVER'S BODY IS RECOVERED IN A REMOTE LOCATION 114 00:07:57,275 --> 00:07:59,925 ON TODD'S 95 WOODED ACRES, 115 00:07:59,931 --> 00:08:03,411 FAR FROM THE SHIPPING CONTAINER WHERE KALA BROWN WAS HELD, 116 00:08:03,413 --> 00:08:06,593 CLOSER TO HIS SHOOTING TARGETS. 117 00:08:07,379 --> 00:08:09,279 NEXT TO HIM, AUTHORITIES FIND EVIDENCE 118 00:08:09,275 --> 00:08:12,025 THAT TODD IS PREPARED TO KILL AGAIN 119 00:08:12,034 --> 00:08:14,484 IN THE FORM OF A FRESHLY-DUG GRAVE, 120 00:08:14,482 --> 00:08:16,312 WHICH THEY ASK HIM ABOUT. 121 00:08:26,517 --> 00:08:29,787 AFTER AUTHORITIES FIND CHARLIE AND THE EMPTY GRAVE, 122 00:08:29,793 --> 00:08:33,243 THEY HAVE TROUBLE FINDING JOHNNY AND MEAGAN COXIE'S BODIES, 123 00:08:33,241 --> 00:08:36,761 WHO THEY NOW KNOW ARE AMONG TODD'S VICTIMS. 124 00:09:01,068 --> 00:09:03,618 WITH TODD'S HELP, JOHNNY AND MEAGAN COXIE 125 00:09:03,620 --> 00:09:05,900 ARE FOUND BURIED NEXT TO EACH OTHER, 126 00:09:05,896 --> 00:09:09,026 JUST A SHORT DISTANCE FROM THE FRONT OF THE SHIPPING CONTAINER 127 00:09:09,034 --> 00:09:11,934 WHERE KALA IS FOUND ALIVE. 128 00:09:11,931 --> 00:09:14,001 WHEN ALL THREE BODIES ARE EXHUMED, 129 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,760 AUTHORITIES FIND THEMSELVES FACING ANOTHER GRUESOME SURPRISE 130 00:09:18,758 --> 00:09:22,448 IN A WEEK THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN FULL OF THEM. 131 00:09:22,448 --> 00:09:25,338 BOTH OF THEM, THEIR FEET WERE GONE. 132 00:09:25,344 --> 00:09:28,974 SHOES, FEET... 133 00:09:28,965 --> 00:09:30,095 WERE COMPLETELY GONE. 134 00:09:32,482 --> 00:09:34,692 WE ASKED HIM ABOUT THAT. 135 00:09:34,689 --> 00:09:35,829 IT BECAME APPARENT REAL QUICK 136 00:09:35,827 --> 00:09:37,967 THAT HE DID NOT LIKE TALKING ABOUT THAT. 137 00:09:37,965 --> 00:09:40,205 Awes: THEN TODD MAKES A STATEMENT 138 00:09:40,206 --> 00:09:43,686 THAT SEEMS TO MAKE NO SENSE AT ALL. 139 00:09:43,689 --> 00:09:46,099 HE MADE A COMMENT THAT, 140 00:09:46,103 --> 00:09:49,073 "MY MOTHER TOLD ME NEVER TO PLAY WITH MY FOOD." 141 00:09:54,275 --> 00:10:02,135 ♪♪ 142 00:10:02,137 --> 00:10:06,717 Awes: HEARING THAT THE VICTIM'S FEET ARE MISSING IS HORRIFYING. 143 00:10:06,724 --> 00:10:09,764 TO THINK THAT TODD COULD HAVE ALSO DONE THIS 144 00:10:09,758 --> 00:10:12,618 CONJURES UP IMAGES OF JEFFREY DAHMER. 145 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:16,930 IT MAKES THINGS EVEN WORSE FOR CHARLIE CARVER'S FAMILY. 146 00:10:16,931 --> 00:10:20,211 WE FOUND OUT THROUGH THE AUTOPSY REPORTS 147 00:10:20,206 --> 00:10:23,166 THAT CHARLIE'S FEET WERE MISSING. 148 00:10:25,724 --> 00:10:28,314 AND THAT BOTHERED ME A LOT. 149 00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:30,790 I READ IT, AND I READ IT. 150 00:10:30,793 --> 00:10:33,793 AND SO I CALLED THE CORONER. 151 00:10:33,793 --> 00:10:35,553 I TRIED TO PLAY EVERY SCENARIO TO HIM. 152 00:10:35,551 --> 00:10:39,521 I SAID, "WAS IT FROM AN ANIMAL?" 153 00:10:39,517 --> 00:10:40,997 YOU KNOW, "WHAT WAS IT?" 154 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,000 HE SAID, "NO, THERE'S NO TEETH MARKS." 155 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,280 I SAID, "WERE THEY CUT OFF?" 156 00:10:46,275 --> 00:10:48,925 HE SAID, "THERE'S NO SAW MARKS." 157 00:10:48,931 --> 00:10:50,721 HE SAID, "IT' LIKE WHEN YOU..." 158 00:10:50,724 --> 00:10:55,074 HE SAID, "IF YOU TWIST YOUR ARM AND SEE THE SKIN TURNING, 159 00:10:55,068 --> 00:10:58,278 IF YOU LOOK HERE, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE SKIN WAS TURNING, 160 00:10:58,275 --> 00:10:59,925 AND HE FEET JUST CAME OFF." 161 00:11:02,068 --> 00:11:04,338 AND I WAS LIKE, "HOW'S THAT POSSIBLE?" 162 00:11:06,344 --> 00:11:08,524 SOMETIMES OFFENDERS, YOU KNOW, KEEP SECRETS. 163 00:11:08,517 --> 00:11:11,827 THEY WON'T ALWAYS TELL YOU 100% OF THE CRIME 164 00:11:11,827 --> 00:11:13,377 THAT THEY'RE PERPETRATED. 165 00:11:13,379 --> 00:11:17,139 THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THEY MAY NOT FEEL GOOD ABOUT. 166 00:11:17,137 --> 00:11:19,277 IT'S KIND OF BIZARRE. WHAT WOULD HE DO WITH THE FEET? 167 00:11:19,275 --> 00:11:21,965 I MEAN, I'VE INTERVIEWED FOOT-FETISH KILLERS. 168 00:11:21,965 --> 00:11:23,785 JERRY BRUDOS, WHO HAS A FOOT FETISH, 169 00:11:23,793 --> 00:11:26,003 AND HE CUT THE FEET OFF OF VICTIMS. 170 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,590 BUT THEN HE MADE MOLDS OUT OF THEM. 171 00:11:28,586 --> 00:11:32,026 I DON'T -- HE'S NOT THAT KIND OF A FETISH KIND OF GUY, 172 00:11:32,034 --> 00:11:33,174 TODD KOHLHEPP. 173 00:11:33,172 --> 00:11:35,172 THE ONLY THING TODD WOULD COME BACK WITH IS, 174 00:11:35,172 --> 00:11:38,932 "MY MOTHER ALWAYS TOLD ME NEVER TO PLAY WITH MY FOOD." 175 00:11:38,931 --> 00:11:40,381 WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHO KNOWS? 176 00:11:40,379 --> 00:11:44,409 YOU CAN ANALYZE -- IT'S LIKE, ANALYSIS PARALYSIS. 177 00:11:44,413 --> 00:11:46,103 YOU CAN TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT, 178 00:11:46,103 --> 00:11:49,383 AND THE ONLY PERSON THAT WOULD KNOW WOULD BE HIM. 179 00:11:49,379 --> 00:11:54,029 AND IT'S A QUESTION OF, IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH TO US? 180 00:11:54,034 --> 00:11:55,934 Awes: I ASK TODD ABOUT THE FEET, 181 00:11:55,931 --> 00:11:59,791 AND HE RESPONDS TO ME IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT LETTERS. 182 00:11:59,793 --> 00:12:03,003 HE SAYS "I KILL. I DON'T PLAY WITH BODIES. 183 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,690 THIS ISN'T 'CRIMINAL MINDS.' NO TROPHIES. 184 00:12:06,689 --> 00:12:09,719 ALL PARTS WERE ATTACHED WHEN I PUT THEM IN THE GROUND. 185 00:12:09,724 --> 00:12:13,314 AND I THINK THE BACKHOE THEY DUG THEM UP WITH DID THAT. 186 00:12:13,310 --> 00:12:15,620 I DIDN'T CAUSE IT." 187 00:12:15,620 --> 00:12:17,900 EVEN IF YOU'RE USING A BACKHOE, I MEAN, WHAT ARE THE ODDS 188 00:12:17,896 --> 00:12:21,926 YOU'RE GONNA CUT THE SAME WAY ON TWO SETS OF FEET? 189 00:12:23,137 --> 00:12:25,967 Awes: I ASK SPARTANBURG COUNTY CORONER RUSTY CLEVENGER 190 00:12:25,965 --> 00:12:28,715 ABOUT THE BACKHOE THEORY. 191 00:12:28,724 --> 00:12:32,144 WERE YOU THERE WHEN THE ACTUAL BODIES WERE REMOVED? 192 00:12:32,137 --> 00:12:33,207 YES. 193 00:12:33,206 --> 00:12:34,586 COULD THIS HAVE HAPPENED WHEN THE BODIES 194 00:12:34,586 --> 00:12:36,896 WERE BEING REMOVED FROM THE GROUND? 195 00:12:36,896 --> 00:12:41,136 THERE WERE NOTABLE DAMAGE ON ONE OF THE BODIES, 196 00:12:41,137 --> 00:12:44,897 BECAUSE THE BUCKET GOT A LITTLE TOO CLOSE, 197 00:12:44,896 --> 00:12:46,896 BUT IT WAS NOT IN THE AREA OF THE FEET. 198 00:12:46,896 --> 00:12:51,306 I HAD TEAMS OF FIVE-GALLON BUCKETS AT A TIME SIFTING TO SEE 199 00:12:51,310 --> 00:12:55,860 IF WE COULD FIND ANY ELEMENT OF THE FEET, AND WE FOUND NONE. 200 00:12:55,862 --> 00:12:59,622 AS AN INVESTIGATOR THAT HAS DONE HOMICIDE INVESTIGATIONS, 201 00:12:59,620 --> 00:13:03,410 THE FACT THAT TWO MALES ARE ABSENT THEIR FEET 202 00:13:03,413 --> 00:13:07,453 WHEN THE FEMALE STILL HAS HER FEET WOULD LEAD ME TO BELIEVE 203 00:13:07,448 --> 00:13:09,588 THAT THERE'S SOMETHING SUSPICIOUS THERE. 204 00:13:11,137 --> 00:13:12,717 Awes: ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN -- 205 00:13:12,724 --> 00:13:15,694 IF TODD KOHLHEPP KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE FEET, 206 00:13:15,689 --> 00:13:18,309 HE HAS NO DESIRE TO TELL... 207 00:13:19,137 --> 00:13:21,307 ...EVEN DURING THE INTERROGATIONS 208 00:13:21,310 --> 00:13:24,900 WHERE HE CONFESSES TO MURDERING SEVEN PEOPLE. 209 00:13:36,551 --> 00:13:39,381 TODD GIVES US PERMISSION TO VISIT HIS PROPERTY, 210 00:13:39,379 --> 00:13:41,689 WHICH AT THIS POINT HE STILL OWNS, 211 00:13:41,689 --> 00:13:45,829 AND I DECIDE I WANT TO SEE SO I CAN BETTER VISUALIZE HIS CRIMES. 212 00:13:45,827 --> 00:13:49,277 GARY GARRETT, HIS BIOGRAPHER, GOES WITH ME. 213 00:13:49,275 --> 00:13:55,685 ♪♪ 214 00:13:55,689 --> 00:13:59,789 IT'S LIKE, TODD HAS TRESPASSING SIGNS EVERYWHERE. 215 00:13:59,793 --> 00:14:00,973 DID HE HAVE A LOT OF TROUBLE 216 00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:02,445 WITH PEOPLE COMING OUT HERE? 217 00:14:02,448 --> 00:14:04,068 Garrett: YEAH, HE SAID HE HAS A LOT OF PROBLEMS 218 00:14:04,068 --> 00:14:05,448 WITH HUNTERS MOSTLY. 219 00:14:05,448 --> 00:14:08,518 IT'S HARD TO DESCRIBE, BUT BETWEEN THE THICK WOODS, 220 00:14:08,517 --> 00:14:10,377 THE TEMPERATURE PUSHING 90, 221 00:14:10,379 --> 00:14:13,999 AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAPPENED HERE, IT'S OMINOUS. 222 00:14:15,310 --> 00:14:17,660 IT'S THE MOST DIFFICULT THING I'VE DONE 223 00:14:17,655 --> 00:14:20,655 IN THIS ENTIRE INVESTIGATION SO FAR -- 224 00:14:20,655 --> 00:14:24,205 TO BE WHERE PEOPLE SPENT THEIR LAST MOMENTS. 225 00:14:24,206 --> 00:14:25,756 BUT I WANT TO BETTER UNDERSTAND 226 00:14:25,758 --> 00:14:31,998 HOW AND WHERE THE KILLINGS AND KALA'S CAPTIVITY TOOK PLACE. 227 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,380 SO, WHEN YOU TALKED TO TODD, 228 00:14:33,379 --> 00:14:37,169 HE TOLD YOU WHERE EVERYTHING HAPPENED ON THE PROPERTY? 229 00:14:37,172 --> 00:14:39,072 YEAH, HE TOLD ME WHERE THE SHOOTINGS HAPPENED, 230 00:14:39,068 --> 00:14:40,408 WHERE HE BURIED THE BODIES. 231 00:14:40,413 --> 00:14:44,663 WHEN HE TALKS TO YOU ABOUT IT, IS HE MATTER OF FACT? 232 00:14:44,655 --> 00:14:47,205 IS HE REMORSEFUL? 233 00:14:48,241 --> 00:14:50,381 HE'S MORE MATTER OF FACT. I DON'T... 234 00:14:50,379 --> 00:14:53,029 WE'VE TALKED ABOUT REMORSE. 235 00:14:53,034 --> 00:14:56,864 I DON'T KNOW IF HE NECESSARILY FEELS REMORSE. 236 00:14:56,862 --> 00:14:58,592 AFTER A 20-MINUTE TREK 237 00:14:58,586 --> 00:15:01,786 FROM THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY PAST CRIME-SCENE TAPE 238 00:15:01,793 --> 00:15:04,663 AND THE PLACE WHERE CHARLIE CARVER WAS BURIED, 239 00:15:04,655 --> 00:15:07,515 WE FINALLY GET TO TODD'S GARAGE. 240 00:15:09,379 --> 00:15:12,139 BEING OUT HERE AND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED HERE, 241 00:15:12,137 --> 00:15:15,027 AND THEN, IT'S LIKE, THERE'S A BARBECUE GRILL. 242 00:15:15,034 --> 00:15:17,004 YOU KNOW, IS HE GRILLING? IS HE HAVING A HAMBURGER? 243 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,070 LIKE, THERE'S JUST SOMETHING SO WRONG. 244 00:15:25,379 --> 00:15:27,169 THAT DOOR? THE DOOR'S NOT OPEN, IS IT? 245 00:15:27,172 --> 00:15:28,862 I MEAN, I DON'T THINK SO. 246 00:15:28,862 --> 00:15:34,242 ♪♪ 247 00:15:34,241 --> 00:15:36,411 OH. IT IS OPEN. 248 00:15:36,413 --> 00:15:42,863 ♪♪ 249 00:15:42,862 --> 00:15:45,662 I'M NOT PREPARED FOR WHAT'S INSIDE. 250 00:15:49,965 --> 00:15:58,095 ♪♪ 251 00:15:58,103 --> 00:16:00,623 Awes: TO LAND THE LAND OF A SERIAL KILLER 252 00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:05,310 THAT NATURE HAS NOW SOMEWHAT RECLAIMED IS ONE THING, 253 00:16:05,310 --> 00:16:10,070 BUT TO STEP INSIDE HIS PRIVATE LAIR IS QUITE ANOTHER. 254 00:16:10,068 --> 00:16:16,278 ♪♪ 255 00:16:16,275 --> 00:16:22,475 ♪♪ 256 00:16:22,482 --> 00:16:25,242 THIS IS ALL HIS STUFF. I MEAN, EVERYTHING IN HERE. 257 00:16:25,241 --> 00:16:26,931 YEP. 258 00:16:26,931 --> 00:16:30,031 POSTERS ON THE WALL. THE TOOLS. 259 00:16:30,034 --> 00:16:32,104 LOOK AT THIS. 260 00:16:32,103 --> 00:16:34,793 THAT'S A CHRISTMAS COFFEE CUP. 261 00:16:34,793 --> 00:16:37,073 DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S THERE SINCE... 262 00:16:37,068 --> 00:16:38,098 THE DAY HE KILLED MEAGAN. 263 00:16:38,103 --> 00:16:39,553 ...THE DAY HE KILLED MEAGAN? 264 00:16:39,551 --> 00:16:49,591 ♪♪ 265 00:16:49,586 --> 00:16:53,926 HE'S EVEN GOT -- IT'S LIKE, THE STOCKPILE OF STUFF. 266 00:16:53,931 --> 00:16:56,341 I MEAN, ALL THIS... 267 00:16:56,344 --> 00:16:58,594 IT LOOKS LIKE THEY CAME THROUGH AND JUST LOOKED... 268 00:16:58,586 --> 00:16:59,856 DUMPED IT....AND JUST DUMPED IT. 269 00:16:59,862 --> 00:17:02,242 IT'S EVERYWHERE. 270 00:17:02,241 --> 00:17:06,281 HE'D BRING KALA IN HERE. AND THIS WAS THE BED. 271 00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:08,515 HE HAD A U-BOLT THAT WENT THROUGH THE WALL, 272 00:17:08,517 --> 00:17:12,097 WHERE HE COULD CHAIN HER WHEN SHE WAS HERE. 273 00:17:12,103 --> 00:17:14,073 WHERE THAT HOLE IS.WHERE THAT HOLE IS. 274 00:17:16,655 --> 00:17:17,995 TO BE CHAINED UP IN HERE 275 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,310 OR CHAINED UP IN THAT SHIPPING CONTAINER? 276 00:17:23,793 --> 00:17:26,383 I JUST CAN'T -- I JUST CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE. 277 00:17:30,862 --> 00:17:32,342 GOING THROUGH THE GARAGE, 278 00:17:32,344 --> 00:17:35,144 THERE ARE THINGS THAT REMIND ME OF EACH OF THE CRIMES 279 00:17:35,137 --> 00:17:40,237 TODD COMMITTED -- A MOTORCYCLE MODEL FOR SUPERBIKE, 280 00:17:40,241 --> 00:17:44,101 THE MATTRESS HE USED IN KALA'S ASSAULT, 281 00:17:44,103 --> 00:17:46,693 THE CHRISTMAS COFFEE CUP FROM MEAGAN COXIE, 282 00:17:46,689 --> 00:17:49,169 KILLED ON CHRISTMAS DAY, 283 00:17:49,172 --> 00:17:52,412 DRAWERS FILLED WITH WEAPONS MANUALS. 284 00:17:52,413 --> 00:17:54,663 BUT IN THE END, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY 285 00:17:54,655 --> 00:18:00,375 WHETHER BEING INSIDE OR OUTSIDE THE GARAGE IS MORE UNSETTLING. 286 00:18:00,379 --> 00:18:02,099 THIS LEADS UP TO THE FRONT GATE, AND ON THE WAY, 287 00:18:02,103 --> 00:18:05,143 IT LEADS RIGHT AROUND TO THE SHIPPING CONTAINER. 288 00:18:05,137 --> 00:18:07,407 RIGHT HERE IS WHERE THE SHIPPING CONTAINER WAS SITTING. 289 00:18:07,413 --> 00:18:09,103 ON THESE BLOCKS.RIGHT BACK THERE? 290 00:18:09,103 --> 00:18:11,243 YEP.SO, I KNOW HE BURIED 291 00:18:11,241 --> 00:18:13,141 JOHNNY AND MEAGAN NEAR THE SHIPPING CONTAINER. 292 00:18:13,137 --> 00:18:14,857 DO YOU KNOW -- DID HE TELL YOU WHERE THAT WAS? 293 00:18:14,862 --> 00:18:16,412 HE DID. HE SAID IT WAS RIGHT ACROSS 294 00:18:16,413 --> 00:18:17,383 FROM THE SHIPPING CONTAINERS. 295 00:18:17,379 --> 00:18:18,479 SO, RIGHT OVER IN THIS AREA. 296 00:18:18,482 --> 00:18:21,032 HE BURIED JOHNNY RIGHT OVER IN HERE. 297 00:18:21,034 --> 00:18:23,004 AND THEN, HE SAID MEAGAN WAS ABOUT 20 FEET TO THE LEFT, 298 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,240 SO SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER IN THAT AREA. 299 00:18:26,241 --> 00:18:28,791 Awes: SO THEIR GRAVE SITES THEN WERE RIGHT OVER HERE 300 00:18:28,793 --> 00:18:32,103 BY WHERE ALL THIS CRIME-SCENE CAUTION TAPE IS. 301 00:18:32,103 --> 00:18:34,343 THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. 302 00:18:34,344 --> 00:18:36,794 TODD TELLS ME THAT AFTER HE KILLS MEAGAN, 303 00:18:36,793 --> 00:18:39,693 HE THROWS THE HONEY BUNS AND DR. PEPPER HE'D GOTTEN HER 304 00:18:39,689 --> 00:18:43,379 AS A TREAT THAT DAY INTO HER GRAVE, 305 00:18:43,379 --> 00:18:45,519 THEN HE CLEANS UP THE SHIPPING CONTAINER, 306 00:18:45,517 --> 00:18:49,997 WHICH HE WILL USE AGAIN NINE MONTHS LATER TO KEEP KALA BROWN. 307 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,900 ♪♪ 308 00:18:54,896 --> 00:18:56,716 WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THE MURDERS, 309 00:18:56,724 --> 00:18:59,624 TODD TELLS ME HE HAS REGRETS. 310 00:18:59,620 --> 00:19:02,210 FOR OTHERS, NOT SO MUCH. 311 00:19:22,689 --> 00:19:25,589 RIGHT. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT JOHNNY -- 312 00:19:26,448 --> 00:19:28,828 WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT JOHNNY COXIE IN PARTICULAR 313 00:19:28,827 --> 00:19:32,717 AND HIM PULLING A KNIFE ON YOU, YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU GO SO FAR 314 00:19:32,724 --> 00:19:36,414 SO SAY YOU FEEL LIKE HE DESERVED TO DIE? 315 00:19:49,931 --> 00:19:53,141 LOOKING BACK AT WHAT YOU'VE DONE, 316 00:19:53,137 --> 00:19:55,587 WHAT REGRETS, IF ANY, DO YOU HAVE? 317 00:20:13,896 --> 00:20:15,236 AND WHAT ABOUT BEVERLY GUY? 318 00:20:15,241 --> 00:20:17,661 YOU'VE MENTIONED HER TO ME BEFORE. 319 00:20:49,172 --> 00:20:51,072 IT'S A STRANGE THING TO HEAR 320 00:20:51,068 --> 00:20:53,588 HOW A SERIAL KILLER VIEWS THINGS. 321 00:20:53,586 --> 00:20:57,656 HOW HE DECIDES WHETHER SOMEONE SHOULD LIVE OR DIE. 322 00:20:58,310 --> 00:21:01,170 TOM CLARK, THE MAN WHO INTERROGATED TODD, 323 00:21:01,172 --> 00:21:03,072 BELIEVES PART OF HIS MOTIVATION 324 00:21:03,068 --> 00:21:05,968 CAME DOWN TO SOMETHING QUITE BASIC. 325 00:21:05,965 --> 00:21:10,095 MY OPINION IS, JOHNNY AND CHARLIE 326 00:21:10,103 --> 00:21:13,793 WERE IN TODD'S WAY FROM HIM GETTING THE WOMEN THE HE WANTED. 327 00:21:13,793 --> 00:21:17,103 FROM HIM GETTING THE POSSESSIONS THAT HE WANTED. 328 00:21:17,103 --> 00:21:19,973 Awes: TODD SEEMS TO BE GETTING MORE AND MORE CANDID, 329 00:21:19,965 --> 00:21:22,515 TELLING ME ABOUT THE CRIMES THE WORLD KNEW ABOUT, 330 00:21:22,517 --> 00:21:27,237 AS IF WE'VE REACHED A STAGE WHERE NOTHING IS OFF LIMITS. 331 00:21:27,241 --> 00:21:31,211 IN OUR VERY FIRST PHONE CALL, HE SAYS THERE ARE MORE VICTIMS, 332 00:21:31,206 --> 00:21:34,446 BUT AS TIME GOES ON, I WONDER IF IT'S TRUE. 333 00:21:34,448 --> 00:21:36,968 IS HE EVER GOING TO COME CLEAN? 334 00:21:49,655 --> 00:21:54,685 HE TELLS ME HE PARTICIPATED IN A HUMAN HUNT CLUB IN 2005, 335 00:21:54,689 --> 00:21:57,239 KILLING DRUG DEALERS IN JUáREZ, MEXICO, 336 00:21:57,241 --> 00:22:00,101 IN THE YEARS AFTER THE SUPERBIKE MURDERS. 337 00:22:00,103 --> 00:22:03,793 SOMETHING THE FBI ACTIVELY INVESTIGATING. 338 00:22:03,793 --> 00:22:06,593 BUT AS FOR MURDERS BEFORE THE BIKE SHOP, 339 00:22:06,586 --> 00:22:08,966 IT TURNS OUT THERE'S ANOTHER HUNT CLUB 340 00:22:08,965 --> 00:22:11,165 I SHOULD BE ASKING ABOUT. 341 00:22:12,241 --> 00:22:14,621 THERE'S AN APARTMENT COMPLEX IN SPARTANBURG 342 00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:17,760 ACTUALLY CALLED THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS. 343 00:22:17,758 --> 00:22:19,968 TODD IS LIVING THERE IN 2003, 344 00:22:19,965 --> 00:22:23,715 WHEN SOMEONE FINDS OUT HE'S A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER. 345 00:22:23,724 --> 00:22:25,384 IT'S UPON HIS RETURN FROM ARIZONA 346 00:22:25,379 --> 00:22:27,619 WHERE HE SERVED A 15-YEAR PRISON SENTENCE 347 00:22:27,620 --> 00:22:30,000 FOR RAPING HIS TEENAGE NEIGHBOR. 348 00:22:59,344 --> 00:23:00,764 [ CAR DOOR CLOSES ] 349 00:23:01,241 --> 00:23:07,481 DID SOMETHING HAPPEN AT THE APARTMENT COMPLEX AFTER THIS? 350 00:23:08,862 --> 00:23:11,312 CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT? 351 00:23:16,931 --> 00:23:18,791 WHAT DID THEY -- 352 00:23:18,793 --> 00:23:21,003 AND THEY'RE NO LONGER WITH US. 353 00:23:25,620 --> 00:23:30,070 ♪♪ 354 00:23:30,068 --> 00:23:32,998 Awes: WHEN TODD KOHLHEPP SAYS TWO PEOPLE WHO HARASSED HIM 355 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,760 ARE NO LONGER WITH US, I BELIEVE I KNOW WHAT HE MEANS -- 356 00:23:36,758 --> 00:23:39,828 HE KILLED THEM. 357 00:23:39,827 --> 00:23:43,237 BUT HOW DO I KNOW THAT TODD IS TELLING THE TRUTH? 358 00:23:43,241 --> 00:23:46,721 I TRY TO PIN HIM DOWN ABOUT THE DETAILS. 359 00:23:46,724 --> 00:23:50,344 WHAT DID THEY LOOK LIKE? DID YOU KNOW THEM, OR...? 360 00:24:06,034 --> 00:24:07,554 AND WHAT HAPPENED? 361 00:24:23,965 --> 00:24:26,405 TODD NEVER GIVES ME THE MEN'S NAMES, 362 00:24:26,413 --> 00:24:28,103 AND THEIR WALLETS ARE NEVER FOUND 363 00:24:28,103 --> 00:24:31,553 IN ANY SEARCH OF TODD'S PROPERTIES. 364 00:24:31,551 --> 00:24:35,211 STILL, SOME OF WHAT TODD ALLEGES ENDS UP CHECKING OUT. 365 00:24:35,206 --> 00:24:36,656 HE HAD BEEN HARASSED, 366 00:24:36,655 --> 00:24:40,515 WHICH IS VERIFIED BY POLICE REPORTS HE FILES AT THE TIME. 367 00:24:40,517 --> 00:24:44,277 NOT ONLY THAT, TODD CLARK, THE SAME MAN WHO INTERROGATED 368 00:24:44,275 --> 00:24:47,475 TODD IN 2016 ABOUT SUPERBIKE, THE COXIES, 369 00:24:47,482 --> 00:24:49,832 AND CHARLIE CARVER, HEARS AT THE TIME 370 00:24:49,827 --> 00:24:54,587 THAT TODD IS BEING HARASSED FROM THE APARTMENT COMPLEX'S MANAGER. 371 00:24:54,586 --> 00:24:58,336 I WAS THE COURTESY OFFICER FOR HUNT CLUB APARTMENT COMPLEX 372 00:24:58,344 --> 00:25:01,214 AND FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS LIVING THERE. 373 00:25:01,206 --> 00:25:06,716 THE MANAGER AT THE APARTMENT COMPLEX HAD MADE COMMENT TO ME 374 00:25:06,724 --> 00:25:12,034 THAT HE WAS UPSET AND HAD MADE COMMENTS TO HER 375 00:25:12,034 --> 00:25:14,484 THAT HE WAS BEING HARASSED. 376 00:25:14,482 --> 00:25:16,032 HE WANTED TO KNOW 377 00:25:16,034 --> 00:25:18,244 HOW HE COULD BE TAKE OFF OF THE SEX-OFFENDER REGISTRY. 378 00:25:18,241 --> 00:25:21,761 DIDN'T GO INTO A LOT OF DETAIL. 379 00:25:21,758 --> 00:25:23,828 BUT HE WAS VERY UPSET. 380 00:25:23,827 --> 00:25:27,097 Awes: FOR THE RECORD, FEW STATES ALLOW SOMEONE TO BE REMOVED 381 00:25:27,103 --> 00:25:29,973 FROM A SEX-OFFENDER LIST ONCE THEY'RE ON IT. 382 00:25:31,275 --> 00:25:33,715 TODD ENDS UP TELLING HIS BIOGRAPHER GARY GARRETT 383 00:25:33,724 --> 00:25:36,664 MUCH MORE ABOUT THE ALLEGED MURDERS OF TWO VICTIMS 384 00:25:36,655 --> 00:25:40,855 AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS, WHICH HE THEN SHARES WITH ME. 385 00:25:40,862 --> 00:25:44,792 TODD CONTENDS THAT THE TWO MEN APPROACHED HIM FIRST. 386 00:25:44,793 --> 00:25:47,483 Garrett: SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 10:30 AND 11:30, 387 00:25:47,482 --> 00:25:50,452 THEY APPROACHED HIM IN THE PARKING LOT. 388 00:25:50,448 --> 00:25:54,338 THE CLOSET ONE TO HIM, HE SAID THE GUY REACHED OUT HIS KNIFE, 389 00:25:54,344 --> 00:25:57,624 HE SLASHED HIM ON THE BACK SIDE OF HIS ARM, 390 00:25:57,620 --> 00:25:59,140 STABBED HIM RIGHT UP IN THE LEG, 391 00:25:59,137 --> 00:26:02,307 AND HE SAID THAT HE HIT ARTERIES THERE, 392 00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:05,030 AND THEN HE STABBED A GUY IN THE CHEST. 393 00:26:05,034 --> 00:26:07,314 ANOTHER GUY WAS BEHIND HIM. 394 00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:09,210 HE SAID HE STABBED HIM IN THE NECK. 395 00:26:09,206 --> 00:26:17,996 ♪♪ 396 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,720 HE RAN INTO HIS APARTMENT, CARRIED PITCHERS OF WATER 397 00:26:21,724 --> 00:26:25,624 AND DUMPING PITCHERS OF WATER ON THE BLOOD IN THE PARKING LOT. 398 00:26:25,620 --> 00:26:34,030 ♪♪ 399 00:26:34,034 --> 00:26:38,594 Awes: THEN TODD TELLS GARY HOW DISPOSED OF THE BODIES. 400 00:26:41,103 --> 00:26:42,863 Garrett: TOOK THEM DOWN A FRONTAGE ROAD 401 00:26:42,862 --> 00:26:45,592 WITH A ROAD AT THE END, AND AT THE END THERE'S LIKE 402 00:26:45,586 --> 00:26:48,276 A BIG SIGN ACROSS THE ROAD. 403 00:26:51,172 --> 00:26:53,622 HE SAYS HE PULLED UP THERE 404 00:26:53,620 --> 00:26:56,210 AND THEN DRUG THE BODIES BACK BEHIND THERE. 405 00:26:59,379 --> 00:27:01,759 HE DIDN'T GIVE, LIKE, A SPECIFIC LOCATION, 406 00:27:01,758 --> 00:27:04,928 BUT HE SAID HE WENT DOWN INTERSTATE 26. 407 00:27:04,931 --> 00:27:07,411 Awes: NEAR WHAT PART OF THE INTERSTATE? 408 00:27:07,413 --> 00:27:10,283 NEAR WHAT CITY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? 409 00:27:10,275 --> 00:27:12,375 BEFORE COLUMBIA. 410 00:27:12,379 --> 00:27:16,239 HE DID NOT THINK THEY'D EVER BEEN FOUND. 411 00:27:16,241 --> 00:27:18,661 Awes: IT'S VERY UNSETTLING INFORMATION, 412 00:27:18,655 --> 00:27:21,585 BUT I ALSO BELIEVE IT'S IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY 413 00:27:21,586 --> 00:27:23,586 THAT TODD HAS DONE THIS. 414 00:27:23,586 --> 00:27:27,066 I'M LEFT WITH TWO QUESTIONS. 415 00:27:27,068 --> 00:27:31,168 FIRST, WAS ANYONE REPORTED MISSING IN OR AROUND THE AREA 416 00:27:31,172 --> 00:27:35,972 OF THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS IN THE SUMMER OF 2003? 417 00:27:35,965 --> 00:27:37,855 WE CHECKED WITH THE CITY OF SPARTANBURG, 418 00:27:37,862 --> 00:27:40,482 ALL OF THE COUNTIES IN THE STATE, AND ON NamUs, 419 00:27:40,482 --> 00:27:44,102 WHICH IS THE NATIONAL MISSING AND UNIDENTIFIED PERSONS SYSTEM, 420 00:27:44,103 --> 00:27:47,593 AND WE CAN'T FIND ANY MATCHING MISSING-PERSONS REPORTS. 421 00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:52,663 SECOND, WE ASK IF ANY UNIDENTIFIED REMAINS 422 00:27:52,655 --> 00:27:54,825 HAVE BEEN FOUND BURIED NEAR EACH OTHER 423 00:27:54,827 --> 00:27:57,587 THAT COULD MATCH UP TO THESE TWO ALLEGED VICTIMS. 424 00:27:57,586 --> 00:28:00,546 AND THE ANSWER IS NO. 425 00:28:00,551 --> 00:28:03,521 SO, IF THIS IS A TRUE STORY, IF WE ARE TO BELIEVE 426 00:28:03,517 --> 00:28:09,237 TODD KOHLHEPP, THESE VICTIMS HAVE YET TO BE FOUND. 427 00:28:09,241 --> 00:28:11,141 ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN -- 428 00:28:11,137 --> 00:28:12,997 I FEEL LIKE MY TIMING OF MY INTERVIEW 429 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,620 WITH THE SHERIFF COULDN'T BE BETTER. 430 00:28:16,896 --> 00:28:21,586 IT'S FINALLY MAY 8, 2018 -- THE DATE OF THE INTERVIEW. 431 00:28:23,931 --> 00:28:25,971 TODAY'S THE DAY THAT I'M GONNA SIT DOWN WITH 432 00:28:25,965 --> 00:28:28,095 SHERIFF CHUCK WRIGHT. 433 00:28:28,103 --> 00:28:31,693 I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT CASES 434 00:28:31,689 --> 00:28:35,099 THAT ARE ALL WRAPPED UP WITH TODD KOHLHEPP. 435 00:28:35,103 --> 00:28:38,453 WE'LL SEE WHAT THE SHERIFF HAS TO SAY. 436 00:28:38,448 --> 00:28:44,828 ♪♪ 437 00:28:44,827 --> 00:28:46,337 Awes: IT DID TAKE ME ABOUT A YEAR 438 00:28:46,344 --> 00:28:47,934 TO GET THIS INTERVIEW WITH YOU. 439 00:28:47,931 --> 00:28:50,311 WAS THERE A HESITANCY TO DO THIS? 440 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:53,340 WAS THERE A HESITANCY FOR ME TO DO THIS INTERVIEW? 441 00:28:53,344 --> 00:28:54,724 YES, THERE WAS. 442 00:28:54,724 --> 00:28:59,074 THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE, FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE CASE, 443 00:28:59,068 --> 00:29:01,448 BASICALLY, THEY HAD THEIR OWN THEORIES, 444 00:29:01,448 --> 00:29:04,658 AND SOME OF THEM DIDN'T TRY TO MAKE US LOOK LIKE 445 00:29:04,655 --> 00:29:06,275 WE WERE TRYING REAL HARD. 446 00:29:06,275 --> 00:29:08,785 IT WAS A LITTLE STRENUOUS TO THINK ABOUT DOING ANOTHER 447 00:29:08,793 --> 00:29:13,763 INTERVIEW BECAUSE OUR TEAM DID THE BEST THAT WE COULD DO, 448 00:29:13,758 --> 00:29:15,588 AND I JUST THOUGHT -- 449 00:29:15,586 --> 00:29:17,926 I SAID, "WELL, IF I WANT THE TRUTH TO BE OUT THERE 450 00:29:17,931 --> 00:29:20,211 MAYBE I'M THE ONE THAT SHOULD BE TELLING IT." 451 00:29:24,758 --> 00:29:30,518 ♪♪ 452 00:29:30,517 --> 00:29:33,757 Awes: IN THIS INTERVIEW, WHICH HAS TAKEN ALMOST A YEAR TO GET, 453 00:29:33,758 --> 00:29:35,688 I WANT TO GIVE SHERIFF CHUCK WRIGHT 454 00:29:35,689 --> 00:29:38,379 THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, A FAIR CHANCE TO RESPOND 455 00:29:38,379 --> 00:29:40,619 TO SOME TOUGH QUESTIONS, 456 00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:42,790 BUT FIRST, I WANT TO REMIND HIM 457 00:29:42,793 --> 00:29:44,903 OF THE ONE AND ONLY TIME WE MET, 458 00:29:44,896 --> 00:29:48,786 AT TODD'S SENTENCING BACK IN 2017. 459 00:29:48,793 --> 00:29:50,863 Awes: I ONLY MET YOU ONCE UP UNTIL NOW. 460 00:29:50,862 --> 00:29:53,312 IT WAS IN A NEWS CONFERENCE RIGHT AFTER 461 00:29:53,310 --> 00:29:55,210 TODD KOHLHEPP'S SENTENCING. 462 00:29:55,206 --> 00:29:56,546 AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER ME. 463 00:29:56,551 --> 00:29:59,281 IN ALL OF THE CONVERSATIONS YOU'VE HAD WITH HIM, 464 00:29:59,275 --> 00:30:01,475 YOU'RE CONFIDENT THAT THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER VICTIMS? 465 00:30:01,482 --> 00:30:05,002 YOU'RE WEARING A NICE DRESS. 466 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,830 AND I AIN'T GONNA ANSWER THAT ONE. 467 00:30:07,827 --> 00:30:10,277 SHERIFF WRIGHT DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT TO DISCUSS 468 00:30:10,275 --> 00:30:13,305 THAT EXCHANGE, BUT HE SEEMS TO BE MAKING A GENUINE ATTEMPT 469 00:30:13,310 --> 00:30:17,590 TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE HAUNTED THIS CASE. 470 00:30:17,586 --> 00:30:20,586 I TELL HIM I STILL WANT AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION -- 471 00:30:20,586 --> 00:30:22,236 WHETHER HE THINKS TODD KOHLHEPP 472 00:30:22,241 --> 00:30:25,211 COULD HAVE MURDERED OTHER PEOPLE. 473 00:30:25,206 --> 00:30:28,136 YOU DIDN'T ANSWER QUESTION, AND... 474 00:30:28,137 --> 00:30:29,897 I'LL ANSWER IT TODAY, IF YOU WANT TO ASK IT. 475 00:30:29,896 --> 00:30:31,716 I'D LIKE TO ASK THAT QUESTION AGAIN. 476 00:30:31,724 --> 00:30:36,214 DO YOU THINK, TODAY, THAT TODD KOHLHEPP HAS MORE VICTIMS 477 00:30:36,206 --> 00:30:38,966 THAN THE SEVEN THAT WAS SENTENCED FOR? 478 00:30:38,965 --> 00:30:41,685 UM, I AM NOT SURE. 479 00:30:41,689 --> 00:30:44,209 I DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE TO POINT TO ANYBODY, 480 00:30:44,206 --> 00:30:47,896 OR ELSE WE WOULD BE OUT TAKING CARE OF IT TODAY. 481 00:30:47,896 --> 00:30:50,716 IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THERE'S MORE VICTIMS. 482 00:30:50,724 --> 00:30:52,904 Awes: I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT THE SHERIFF IS OPEN 483 00:30:52,896 --> 00:30:54,686 TO THAT POSSIBILITY. 484 00:30:54,689 --> 00:30:57,169 AND EVEN THOUGH I'VE FORMED MY OWN CONCLUSIONS, 485 00:30:57,172 --> 00:30:59,382 I ALSO WANT TO ASK HIM ABOUT SUPERBIKE 486 00:30:59,379 --> 00:31:01,689 AND SOME OF THE LINGERING INCONGRUITIES 487 00:31:01,689 --> 00:31:05,929 BETWEEN TODD'S STORY AND THE CRIME SCENE. 488 00:31:05,931 --> 00:31:09,381 TODD KOHLHEPP HAD SAID HE SHOT EVERYONE IN THE FOREHEAD. 489 00:31:09,379 --> 00:31:12,689 THEY WERE SHOT IN THE HEAD BUT NOT THE FOREHEAD. 490 00:31:12,689 --> 00:31:15,339 DO YOU THINK THAT IS 491 00:31:15,344 --> 00:31:19,104 REASON TO BELIEVE HE DIDN'T DO SUPERBIKE? 492 00:31:19,103 --> 00:31:21,903 NO. BECAUSE IT WAS 13 YEARS AGO. 493 00:31:21,896 --> 00:31:26,376 I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO NOT BELIEVE HIM. 494 00:31:28,482 --> 00:31:31,622 THE AMMO THAT HE USED, IT MATCHED IT EXACTLY. 495 00:31:31,620 --> 00:31:36,140 IT WAS SPECIFICALLY EXACTLY AS HE SAID IT WAS. 496 00:31:36,137 --> 00:31:39,207 SO TODD INDICATED HE HAD USED 497 00:31:39,206 --> 00:31:43,616 THE REMINGTON BRASS SUBSONIC 147-GRAIN BULLETS 498 00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:47,590 AND FEDERAL 135-GRAIN HYDRA SHOK BULLETS 499 00:31:47,586 --> 00:31:49,276 THAT WERE NICKEL. 500 00:31:49,275 --> 00:31:52,475 ALL THAT MATCHED. ALL THE SPECIFICS ON THE BRASS, 501 00:31:52,482 --> 00:31:57,002 THE CALIBERS, THE SUBSONICS, ALL OF THAT MATCHED PERFECTLY. 502 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,620 Awes: THE SHERIFF IS RIGHT. 503 00:31:58,620 --> 00:32:01,860 THE TYPES OF BULLETS TODD SAYS WERE USED ARE A MATCH 504 00:32:01,862 --> 00:32:05,382 TO THOSE AT THE SCENE, BUT THE SHERIFF CAN'T COMMENT ON 505 00:32:05,379 --> 00:32:08,549 THE FACT THAT THE ORDER IN WHICH TODD SAYS HE FIRED THEM 506 00:32:08,551 --> 00:32:12,211 AND FROM WHERE DOESN'T MATCH UP WITH THE EXACT PLACEMENT 507 00:32:12,206 --> 00:32:15,516 OF THE CASINGS LEFT BEHIND AT THE SHOP. 508 00:32:15,517 --> 00:32:18,377 THERE WAS A LOT OF DETAILS THAT HE TALKED WITH 509 00:32:18,379 --> 00:32:20,899 THE INVESTIGATORS AND OUR SOLICITOR ABOUT, 510 00:32:20,896 --> 00:32:23,336 THAT HONESTLY, I WASN'T PRIVY TO. 511 00:32:23,344 --> 00:32:26,864 I ASKED THE TEAM, I SAID, "ARE WE 100% SURE 512 00:32:26,862 --> 00:32:29,592 THAT HE'S NOT JUST TRYING TO MAKE A NEWS STORY FOR HIMSELF?" 513 00:32:29,586 --> 00:32:31,586 AND THEY CAME BACK, AND THEY SAID, 514 00:32:31,586 --> 00:32:34,166 "100% THIS IS OUR GUY." 515 00:32:36,586 --> 00:32:39,586 IT WAS TO MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE LUCAS FAMILY 516 00:32:39,586 --> 00:32:42,686 GAVE A LIST TO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. 517 00:32:42,689 --> 00:32:44,239 THIS CUSTOMER LIST WASN'T PROVIDED 518 00:32:44,241 --> 00:32:47,621 TO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT IN 2005. 519 00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:49,380 YOU KNOW, HIS NAME DID APPEAR ON THIS LIST. 520 00:32:49,379 --> 00:32:53,169 HE PURCHASED A BIKE THERE BACK IN APRIL OF THAT YEAR. 521 00:32:53,172 --> 00:32:54,282 RIGHT. 522 00:32:54,275 --> 00:32:55,515 WHY DIDN'T YOU GUYS LOOK AT THAT? 523 00:32:55,517 --> 00:32:57,717 WHAT DO YOU SAY? 524 00:32:57,724 --> 00:33:00,594 I'M NOT SURE THAT IT WASN'T BY THE OTHER TEAM 525 00:33:00,586 --> 00:33:02,996 BEFORE I TOOK OVER AT THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE. 526 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,070 I DON'T KNOW. 527 00:33:04,068 --> 00:33:06,278 IT WASN'T DOCUMENTED THAT IT WAS. 528 00:33:06,275 --> 00:33:12,375 COULD WE HAVE TALKED TO TODD AND GOT THE CASE SOLVED EARLIER? 529 00:33:12,379 --> 00:33:13,659 I DON'T KNOW. 530 00:33:13,655 --> 00:33:15,475 I DON'T THINK SO. 531 00:33:15,482 --> 00:33:19,242 WE REACHED OUT TO THAT LIST BY LETTERS, 532 00:33:19,241 --> 00:33:21,621 ASKING THEM TO PLEASE COME FORWARD. 533 00:33:21,620 --> 00:33:24,450 I THINK THAT THE LETTERS THAT WENT OUT WERE 534 00:33:24,448 --> 00:33:29,448 AFTER THE 10-YEAR ANNIVERSARY, IS MY UNDERSTANDING. 535 00:33:29,448 --> 00:33:31,208 Awes: ACCORDING TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, 536 00:33:31,206 --> 00:33:34,586 TODD KOHLHEPP NEVER RESPONDS TO THE LETTER. 537 00:33:34,586 --> 00:33:37,826 THERE WAS NOTHING IN HIS BACKGROUND OF TODD KOHLHEPP 538 00:33:37,827 --> 00:33:41,517 OR ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD SAY, YEAH, HE'S GONNA BE 539 00:33:41,517 --> 00:33:43,787 PROBABLY OUR NUMBER-ONE SUSPECT. 540 00:33:43,793 --> 00:33:47,283 YOU KNOW, HE'D HAD THE CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONDUCT THING 541 00:33:47,275 --> 00:33:52,135 WHEN HE WAS A YOUNGER TEENAGER IN ARIZONA. 542 00:33:52,137 --> 00:33:54,717 THAT DIDN'T SCREAM, "I CAN KILL FOUR PEOPLE." 543 00:33:54,724 --> 00:33:57,484 DO I THINK MISTAKES WERE MADE BEFORE I INHERITED THE CASE? 544 00:33:57,482 --> 00:33:58,622 YEAH, I DO. 545 00:33:58,620 --> 00:33:59,970 MATTER OF FACT, I KNOW THERE WAS. 546 00:33:59,965 --> 00:34:02,785 THERE WAS AN ENTIRE ROOM THAT WASN'T EVEN PROCESSED. 547 00:34:02,793 --> 00:34:06,453 THE ROOM THAT WAS MISSED WAS AN OFFICE. 548 00:34:06,448 --> 00:34:08,898 Awes: THE SHERIFF SAYS THERE ISN'T ANYTHING IMPORTANT 549 00:34:08,896 --> 00:34:11,926 TO THE CASE ULTIMATELY FOUND IN THAT OFFICE. 550 00:34:11,931 --> 00:34:13,311 HE ALSO WANTS TO ADDRESS 551 00:34:13,310 --> 00:34:15,860 THE MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE WITH THE BLOOD SAMPLES 552 00:34:15,862 --> 00:34:18,722 THAT TEMPORARILY RESULTED IN MELISSA BRACKMAN, 553 00:34:18,724 --> 00:34:21,144 THE WIFE OF SUPERBIKE OWNER SCOTT PONDER, 554 00:34:21,137 --> 00:34:25,757 BEING TREATED LIKE A SUSPECT IN HER OWN HUSBAND'S MURDER. 555 00:34:25,758 --> 00:34:27,758 THERE WAS A MIS-LABELING OF THE BLOOD. 556 00:34:27,758 --> 00:34:29,408 THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH OUR TEAM. 557 00:34:29,413 --> 00:34:32,413 THAT CAME FROM ANOTHER AGENCY. 558 00:34:32,413 --> 00:34:35,723 THANK GOD, BECAUSE OF SOME THINGS 559 00:34:35,724 --> 00:34:37,934 THAT WE WERE STILL TRYING TO WORK OUT ON THE CASE, 560 00:34:37,931 --> 00:34:42,171 IT CAME OUT BEFORE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, REALLY A HUGE ISSUE. 561 00:34:42,172 --> 00:34:45,382 EVERYBODY WAS A SUSPECT UNTIL WE COULD FIGURE OUT WHO DID IT. 562 00:34:47,413 --> 00:34:49,833 LET'S TALK ABOUT MEAGAN AND JOHNNY COXIE 563 00:34:49,827 --> 00:34:50,757 FOR A LITTLE BIT. 564 00:34:50,758 --> 00:34:52,998 I THINK THAT THEIR FAMILIES, 565 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,140 IN TERMS OF JUST MY CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM, 566 00:34:56,137 --> 00:34:59,237 I THINK THEY FEEL LIKE THEIR MISSING-PERSONS CASES 567 00:34:59,241 --> 00:35:03,691 WEREN'T TAKEN AS SERIOUSLY AS KALA AND CHARLIE CARVER'S. 568 00:35:03,689 --> 00:35:05,309 THAT'S NOT FAIR TO SAY. 569 00:35:05,310 --> 00:35:08,860 WE HAVE TO GO ON WHAT WE CAN -- WHAT PEOPLE PROVIDE US. 570 00:35:08,862 --> 00:35:10,722 WE RAN DOWN EVERY LEAD THAT WE COULD FIND, 571 00:35:10,724 --> 00:35:12,484 AND THEN WHEN IT RAN OUT, YOU KNOW, 572 00:35:12,482 --> 00:35:15,002 THEN OBVIOUSLY WE WERE STUCK AND DIDN'T HAVE ANY MORE ANSWERS. 573 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,690 ONE OF THE WAYS KALA WAS FOUND HAD TO DO 574 00:35:16,689 --> 00:35:19,449 WITH THE PINGING OF THE CELLPHONES 575 00:35:19,448 --> 00:35:22,138 AND TRYING TO TRACK WHERE THE CELLPHONES WERE. 576 00:35:22,137 --> 00:35:24,927 THE SEARCH WARRANT FOR THE COXIES' PHONES, 577 00:35:24,931 --> 00:35:26,691 AT LEAST THE ONE THAI I CAN FIND, 578 00:35:26,689 --> 00:35:30,999 ISN'T DATED UNTIL AFTER KOHLHEPP WAS ARRESTED. 579 00:35:33,241 --> 00:35:34,721 YEAH, CAN I TAKE A BREAK, TOO, PLEASE? 580 00:35:34,724 --> 00:35:35,764 DO YOU MIND? 581 00:35:35,758 --> 00:35:37,688 NO, THAT'S FINE. I KNOW -- OKAY. 582 00:35:37,689 --> 00:35:39,169 I ACTUALLY WANT TO CALL WILLIAM GARY 583 00:35:39,172 --> 00:35:40,692 AND ASK HIM ABOUT THE COXIES 584 00:35:40,689 --> 00:35:43,619 AND WHY WE HADN'T PINGED THEIR PHONES. 585 00:35:43,620 --> 00:35:45,970 THAT IS PROBABLY A GOOD QUESTION YOU SHOULD ASK. 586 00:35:45,965 --> 00:35:48,335 Awes: WILLIAM GARY, THE LIEUTENANT HE LEAVES 587 00:35:48,344 --> 00:35:51,904 TO GO CALL, IS AN INVESTIGATOR ON THE COXIE CASE. 588 00:35:51,896 --> 00:35:54,306 I DON'T BLAME THE SHERIFF FOR WANTING TO REACH OUT 589 00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:56,720 TO HIM TO GET THE STORY STRAIGHT. 590 00:35:56,724 --> 00:35:58,314 I WANT THAT, TOO. 591 00:35:58,310 --> 00:36:00,660 HE COMES BACK WITH AN ANSWER. 592 00:36:01,344 --> 00:36:03,834 LOOK, YOU SAID THE FAMILY THINKS THAT IF WE PINGED 593 00:36:03,827 --> 00:36:06,137 THE CELLPHONES OF THE COXIES EARLIER, 594 00:36:06,137 --> 00:36:08,517 WE MIGHT HAVE COULD HAVE SOLVED IT, OKAY? 595 00:36:08,517 --> 00:36:10,927 WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THEM IS THEY WERE PANHANDLING 596 00:36:10,931 --> 00:36:13,931 ON BLACKSOD ROAD. 597 00:36:13,931 --> 00:36:17,691 NO MENTION OF A CELLPHONE THAT WE HAVE ON RECORD. 598 00:36:17,689 --> 00:36:20,899 SO WE DIDN'T HAVE A REASON TO KNOW THAT THEY EVEN HAD A PHONE. 599 00:36:20,896 --> 00:36:22,586 BECAUSE IF YOU'RE PANHANDLING, MOST OF THE TIME, 600 00:36:22,586 --> 00:36:25,166 YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR A CELLPHONE. 601 00:36:25,172 --> 00:36:26,932 IF WE DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD A CELLPHONE, 602 00:36:26,931 --> 00:36:28,481 WE DON'T KNOW TO PING IT. 603 00:36:28,482 --> 00:36:30,972 Awes: WHAT THE SHERIFF SAYS ABOUT HIS INVESTIGATORS 604 00:36:30,965 --> 00:36:33,305 NOT KNOWING MEAGAN COXIE HAD A PHONE 605 00:36:33,310 --> 00:36:36,660 WHEN SHE DISAPPEARED SIMPLY ISN'T TRUE. 606 00:36:36,655 --> 00:36:39,165 A POLICE REPORT SHOWS INVESTIGATOR MICHAEL WALSH 607 00:36:39,172 --> 00:36:42,032 CALLED MEAGAN'S PHONE ON DECEMBER 23rd, 608 00:36:42,034 --> 00:36:44,174 FOUR DAYS AFTER SHE WENT MISSING, 609 00:36:44,172 --> 00:36:47,412 AND LEARNED HER VOICEMAIL BOX WAS FULL. 610 00:36:47,413 --> 00:36:49,483 AT THE TIME, MEAGAN'S MOTHER 611 00:36:49,482 --> 00:36:53,662 MARY McCRAW WANTED THEM TO GO ONE STEP FURTHER. 612 00:36:53,655 --> 00:36:56,205 I SPECIFICALLY ASKED HIM TO PING HER PHONE. 613 00:36:56,206 --> 00:36:57,826 AND HE SAID HE COULDN'T DO IT 614 00:36:57,827 --> 00:37:01,137 BECAUSE IT WAS AN INVITATION OF HER PRIVACY. 615 00:37:01,137 --> 00:37:04,097 AND I SAID, "EVEN IF I PAY THE BILL ON THE PHONE, 616 00:37:04,103 --> 00:37:05,763 IT'S AN INVASION OF HER PRIVACY?" 617 00:37:05,758 --> 00:37:07,858 AND HE WAS LIKE, "YEAH." 618 00:37:07,862 --> 00:37:09,242 Awes: I DIDN'T LOCATE THE REPORT 619 00:37:09,241 --> 00:37:11,451 STATING INVESTIGATORS CALLED MEAGAN'S PHONE 620 00:37:11,448 --> 00:37:13,618 UNTIL AFTER MY MEETING WITH THE SHERIFF, 621 00:37:13,620 --> 00:37:16,690 OR I WOULD HAVE ASKED HIM MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS. 622 00:37:16,689 --> 00:37:19,859 TODD HIMSELF SAYS HE THREW MEAGAN'S PHONE AWAY. 623 00:37:19,862 --> 00:37:22,552 AT THE TIME OF OUR INTERVIEW, THE SHERIFF WAS CONFIDENT 624 00:37:22,551 --> 00:37:25,411 HIS TEAM DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD. 625 00:37:25,413 --> 00:37:28,213 IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU WOULD SAY ABSOLUTELY 626 00:37:28,206 --> 00:37:29,716 SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE 627 00:37:29,724 --> 00:37:32,034 TOOK THAT CASE AS SERIOUSLY AS AN OTHER 628 00:37:32,034 --> 00:37:33,624 MISSING-PERSONS CASE. 629 00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:36,830 IN THE COXIE CASE, WE REALLY DID. 630 00:37:36,827 --> 00:37:39,447 AND WE CAN ONLY GO ON THE INFORMATION THAT WE'RE GIVEN. 631 00:37:39,448 --> 00:37:41,688 YEAH, WE TOOK IT VERY SERIOUSLY. 632 00:37:42,655 --> 00:37:44,895 Awes: THE INTERVIEW I CONDUCT WITH THE SHERIFF LASTS 633 00:37:44,896 --> 00:37:46,616 OVER TWO HOURS. 634 00:37:46,620 --> 00:37:48,280 WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE DISCOVERIES 635 00:37:48,275 --> 00:37:51,135 I'VE MADE BY TALKING TO PEOPLE CONNECTED TO THAT CASE 636 00:37:51,137 --> 00:37:52,617 AND BY GOING THROUGH THE FILES 637 00:37:52,620 --> 00:37:55,930 I ACCESSED THROUGH MY FREEDOM-OF-INFORMATION REQUEST. 638 00:37:55,931 --> 00:37:58,721 IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY 639 00:37:58,724 --> 00:38:01,864 SHERIFF'S OFFICE HAS AT TIMES BEEN OVERWHELMED 640 00:38:01,862 --> 00:38:07,622 BY TODD KOHLHEPP'S MULTIPLE AND EXTREMELY DISTURBING HOMICIDES. 641 00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:10,340 ONE OF THE MOST POIGNANT PARTS OF THE INTERVIEW 642 00:38:10,344 --> 00:38:13,974 IS HIS REFLECTION ON THE DAY KALA BROWN IS FOUND ALIVE. 643 00:38:13,965 --> 00:38:15,895 IT WAS A LIFE-CHANGING EXPERIENCE. 644 00:38:15,896 --> 00:38:18,786 IT WAS PRETTY EMOTIONAL TO SAY THE LEAST. 645 00:38:18,793 --> 00:38:20,143 YOU KNOW, SHE WAS CHAINED LIKE A DOG. 646 00:38:20,137 --> 00:38:22,587 SHE HAD A CHAIN AROUND HER NECK. 647 00:38:22,586 --> 00:38:24,856 LOOKING BACK ON IT NOW, I HAD NO IDEA 648 00:38:24,862 --> 00:38:30,172 WHAT KIND OF THINGS THAT WE WERE ABOUT TO UNCOVER. 649 00:38:30,172 --> 00:38:32,142 TODD KOHLHEPP WAS BROUGHT TO THE PROPERTY 650 00:38:32,137 --> 00:38:35,587 AND SHOWED US WHERE THE COXIES WERE. 651 00:38:35,586 --> 00:38:37,656 I WENT OVER. HE WAS HANDCUFFED, OBVIOUSLY, 652 00:38:37,655 --> 00:38:39,895 AND SHACKLED, AND... 653 00:38:39,896 --> 00:38:42,376 HE WAS IN THE BACK OF ONE OF OUR SUVs. 654 00:38:42,379 --> 00:38:46,309 AND I WENT OVER AND OPENED THE DOOR AND TALKED TO HIM, 655 00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:48,380 AND HE SAID, 656 00:38:48,379 --> 00:38:51,409 "I'VE ALWAYS HAD A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR YOU, SHERIFF." 657 00:38:51,413 --> 00:38:54,033 AND I JUST LET HIM TALK, AND... 658 00:38:54,034 --> 00:38:54,904 I PRAYED WITH HIM. 659 00:38:56,724 --> 00:38:59,344 WHEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT SUPERBIKE, WE GOT ON OUR 660 00:38:59,344 --> 00:39:02,004 HANDS AND KNEES AND SAID A PRAYER OF THANKSGIVING 661 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,340 ABOUT THIS CASE BEING SOLVED. 662 00:39:04,344 --> 00:39:06,834 AND IT WAS VERY EMOTIONAL, I DON'T MIND TELLING YOU. 663 00:39:06,827 --> 00:39:10,447 IT TOOK US A LONG TIME THAT DAY TO RUN ALL THE FAMILIES DOWN. 664 00:39:10,448 --> 00:39:13,858 AND I WAS NOT GONNA TELL ANYONE 665 00:39:13,862 --> 00:39:17,832 THAT THIS CASE HAD BEEN SOLVED UNTIL THEY KNEW FIRST. 666 00:39:17,827 --> 00:39:21,477 NOW, THE SHERBERT FAMILY, WE NEVER GOT TO GET TO THEM. 667 00:39:21,482 --> 00:39:25,342 AND I WASN'T AWARE OF THIS UNTIL AFTER THE NEWS WAS MADE PUBLIC. 668 00:39:25,344 --> 00:39:27,244 I FELT VERY BAD THAT THE SHERBERT FAMILY 669 00:39:27,241 --> 00:39:29,721 HAD TO HEAR THIS ON THE NEWS. 670 00:39:29,724 --> 00:39:32,934 Awes: JUST LIKE IN 2003, WHEN THE FAMILY HAD TO LEARN 671 00:39:32,931 --> 00:39:35,791 ABOUT CHRIS SHERBERT'S DEATH WHEN IT HIT THE NEWS, 672 00:39:35,793 --> 00:39:39,623 THEY HAD TO LEARN OF THE KILLER'S ARREST THE SAME WAY. 673 00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:43,410 DO YOU THINK THAT WITHOUT TODD KOHLHEPP COMING FORWARD 674 00:39:43,413 --> 00:39:46,413 AND ADMITTING TO SUPERBIKE, 675 00:39:46,413 --> 00:39:49,553 WOULD THAT CASE HAVE BEEN SOLVED? 676 00:39:49,551 --> 00:39:51,171 I WOULD LIKE TO SAY YES, WE WOULD HAVE, 677 00:39:51,172 --> 00:39:53,792 BUT THAT'S SIMPLY A GUESS. 678 00:39:53,793 --> 00:39:57,313 I HAD SAID SOMETHING TO SOME PEOPLE AND TO THE FAMILY, TOO. 679 00:39:57,310 --> 00:39:59,690 I SAID, "THAT IS TOO HEAVY. 680 00:39:59,689 --> 00:40:01,789 YOU CANNOT SNUFF OUT FOUR LIVES, 681 00:40:01,793 --> 00:40:04,173 YOU CANNOT TAKE FOUR LIVES 682 00:40:04,172 --> 00:40:05,762 WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT." 683 00:40:05,758 --> 00:40:07,548 AND I WAS RIGHT THE WHOLE TIME. 684 00:40:10,448 --> 00:40:13,208 Awes: WHAT THE SHERIFF SAYS MAKES ME WONDER IF THE REASON 685 00:40:13,206 --> 00:40:15,686 TODD TELLS ME HE KILLED TWO MORE VICTIMS 686 00:40:15,689 --> 00:40:19,279 AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS IN 2003 IS BECAUSE THAT IS NOW 687 00:40:19,275 --> 00:40:22,445 WEIGHING HEAVILY ON HIM, TOO. 688 00:40:22,448 --> 00:40:24,968 IF I'M EVER GOING TO GET TO THE TRUTH, 689 00:40:24,965 --> 00:40:27,235 I NEED THE SHERIFF'S HELP. 690 00:40:27,241 --> 00:40:29,241 HE'S KNOWN FROM THE MOMENT I WENT TO 691 00:40:29,241 --> 00:40:31,901 THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY JAIL A YEAR EARLIER THAT 692 00:40:31,896 --> 00:40:35,096 TODD IS TALKING TO ME FOR THIS DOCUMENTARY. 693 00:40:35,103 --> 00:40:37,973 IN A RECENT CONVERSATION WITH ME, 694 00:40:37,965 --> 00:40:39,755 HE TALKED ABOUT TWO INDIVIDUALS 695 00:40:39,758 --> 00:40:43,278 WHO WERE HARASSING HIM ARE NO LONGER WITH US. 696 00:40:43,275 --> 00:40:45,025 AND I SAID, "DID YOU KILL THESE PEOPLE?" 697 00:40:45,034 --> 00:40:46,384 HE EXPLAINED THAT. 698 00:40:46,379 --> 00:40:48,619 AND HE SAID, "WELL, THEY'RE NO LONGER WITH US." 699 00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:50,860 AND I PRESSED HIM FOR SOME DETAILS. 700 00:40:50,862 --> 00:40:52,312 AND THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE TIME FRAME 701 00:40:52,310 --> 00:40:54,660 BEFORE THE SUPERBIKE MURDERS 702 00:40:54,655 --> 00:41:00,445 BUT AFTER HIS MOTORCYCLE WAS STOLEN, IN 2003. 703 00:41:00,448 --> 00:41:02,478 TWO INDIVIDUALS ASSAULTED HIM 704 00:41:02,482 --> 00:41:04,482 AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS. 705 00:41:04,482 --> 00:41:06,312 ONE OF THEM HAD A HAMMER. 706 00:41:06,310 --> 00:41:08,590 ONE OF THEM HAD A KNIFE. 707 00:41:08,586 --> 00:41:12,096 I ASKED HIM IF HE KNEW WHO THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE. 708 00:41:12,103 --> 00:41:14,723 HE SAID HE HAD THEIR WALLETS, HE HAD THEIR NAMES. 709 00:41:14,724 --> 00:41:17,034 HE DOESN'T REMEMBER WHO THEY WERE. 710 00:41:17,034 --> 00:41:18,834 DIDN'T KNOW THEM. 711 00:41:18,827 --> 00:41:22,717 I HAVEN'T HAD ANY SPECIFIC INFORMATION AT ALL ABOUT, 712 00:41:22,724 --> 00:41:25,284 YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE THAT HAVE WENT MISSING. 713 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,100 FROM DAY ONE, I HAVE SAID ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, 714 00:41:31,103 --> 00:41:34,073 AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, WHEN HE REACHES OUT 715 00:41:34,068 --> 00:41:37,518 AND WANTS TO TELL ME IF THERE ARE MORE VICTIMS, 716 00:41:37,517 --> 00:41:39,137 ON IT RIGHT NOW. 717 00:41:43,241 --> 00:41:45,831 I MEAN, IF I GET THE PHONE CALL WHILE SITTING IN THIS INTERVIEW, 718 00:41:45,827 --> 00:41:49,097 I'LL HAVE SOMEBODY GO GET HIM NOW. 719 00:41:49,103 --> 00:41:50,663 BUT IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET, 720 00:41:50,655 --> 00:41:53,135 SO A LOT OF IT'S JUST SPECULATION. 721 00:41:54,241 --> 00:41:58,621 IF I AM ABLE TO BRING YOU MORE INFORMATION FROM HIM, 722 00:41:58,620 --> 00:42:01,210 THAT YOU COULD ALSO GO INVESTIGATE OBVIOUSLY... 723 00:42:01,206 --> 00:42:02,826 ABSOLUTELY I WILL. 724 00:42:02,827 --> 00:42:04,207 ABSOLUTELY YOU WILL? 725 00:42:04,206 --> 00:42:05,446 YES. 726 00:42:07,034 --> 00:42:10,314 I DON'T REALLY CARE HOW THE INFORMATION GETS TO ME. 727 00:42:10,310 --> 00:42:14,100 I DO CARE THAT THE INFORMATION DOES GET TO ME. 728 00:42:14,103 --> 00:42:16,383 I DON'T HAVE A PRIDE ISSUE HERE, YOU KNOW? 729 00:42:16,379 --> 00:42:17,689 THIS IS ABOUT THE VICTIMS. 730 00:42:17,689 --> 00:42:21,029 THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHO LOOKS GOOD AND WHO DID WHAT. 731 00:42:21,034 --> 00:42:23,624 AND IF YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ESTABLISH A RELATIONSHIP 732 00:42:23,620 --> 00:42:25,900 WITH HIM, YOU KNOW, GOOD. 733 00:42:25,896 --> 00:42:28,406 AND IF YOU CAN HELP US WITH THAT, EVEN BETTER. 734 00:42:28,413 --> 00:42:34,073 ♪♪ 735 00:42:34,068 --> 00:42:39,758 ♪♪ 736 00:42:39,758 --> 00:42:42,168 Awes: EVER SINCE I STARTED INVESTIGATING THE LIFE 737 00:42:42,172 --> 00:42:46,102 AND CRIMES OF SERIAL KILLER TODD KOHLHEPP TWO YEARS AGO, 738 00:42:46,103 --> 00:42:50,623 THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A BIG MYSTERY LURKING IN THE SHADOWS. 739 00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:55,760 DID HE KILL MORE PEOPLE THAN THE SEVEN WE KNOW ABOUT? 740 00:42:55,758 --> 00:42:58,518 HE ALLUDED TO IT IN THE FIRST PHONE CONVERSATION 741 00:42:58,517 --> 00:43:01,757 I HAD WITH HIM IN MAY OF 2017. 742 00:43:05,551 --> 00:43:07,551 ARE YOU SAYING THAT IT'S MORE THAN SEVEN? 743 00:43:08,965 --> 00:43:12,165 WHEN HE TELLS ME HE STABBED TWO ADDITIONAL VICTIMS 744 00:43:12,172 --> 00:43:15,142 AT HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS BACK IN 2003 745 00:43:15,137 --> 00:43:16,857 AND DISPOSED OF THEIR BODIES, 746 00:43:16,862 --> 00:43:21,002 IT SEEMS TODD KOHLHEPP MIGHT FINALLY BE COMING CLEAN. 747 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:26,170 ♪♪ 748 00:43:26,172 --> 00:43:28,622 I HAVE THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S PROMISE 749 00:43:28,620 --> 00:43:30,030 THAT HE WILL INVESTIGATE 750 00:43:30,034 --> 00:43:33,694 IF KOHLHEPP CAN NARROW DOWN A SEARCH AREA. 751 00:43:33,689 --> 00:43:36,619 HE ASSIGNS CAPTAIN STEVE COOPER TO BE MY LIAISON 752 00:43:36,620 --> 00:43:39,720 WITH THE DEPARTMENT, AND WE TALK ABOUT HOW TO PROCEED. 753 00:43:53,413 --> 00:43:56,343 INVESTIGATORS ARE WILLING TO SPEND THE TIME AND MONEY 754 00:43:56,344 --> 00:43:58,104 TO SEARCH FOR THE TWO BODIES, 755 00:43:58,103 --> 00:44:01,343 BUT THEY'RE STILL WARY OF TODD'S NEW CLAIMS. 756 00:44:01,344 --> 00:44:04,934 IN FACT, THERE'S A MAJOR CONTRADICTION. 757 00:44:04,931 --> 00:44:07,691 IF TODD REALLY STABBED TWO PEOPLE TO DEATH 758 00:44:07,689 --> 00:44:09,519 AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS, 759 00:44:09,517 --> 00:44:12,897 IT WOULD MEAN HE LIED IN HIS INTERROGATION WITH TOM CLARK 760 00:44:12,896 --> 00:44:16,096 WHEN HE SAID HE NEVER STABBED ANYONE. 761 00:44:21,034 --> 00:44:23,244 SO IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH NOW, 762 00:44:23,241 --> 00:44:25,341 OR WAS HE TELLING THE TRUTH THEN? 763 00:44:25,344 --> 00:44:27,794 IT'S NO WONDER THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE 764 00:44:27,793 --> 00:44:31,213 IS SKEPTICAL, AND SO AM I. 765 00:44:31,206 --> 00:44:33,786 BUT JUST WHEN I THINK HE MIGHT BE LYING, 766 00:44:33,793 --> 00:44:35,383 I GET AN UNEXPECTED REMINDER 767 00:44:35,379 --> 00:44:38,519 THAT TODD OFTEN DOES TELL THE TRUTH. 768 00:44:38,517 --> 00:44:41,407 IT COMES FROM A WOMAN IN TEMPE, ARIZONA, 769 00:44:41,413 --> 00:44:45,413 WHO SUSPECTED HE RAPED HER BACK IN 1986. 770 00:44:47,517 --> 00:44:49,657 HER ATTACK OCCURRED AROUND THE SAME TIME 771 00:44:49,655 --> 00:44:51,165 AND IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD 772 00:44:51,172 --> 00:44:55,242 WHERE HE RAPED HIS 14-YEAR-OLD NEIGHBOR, KRISTIE. 773 00:44:55,241 --> 00:44:57,901 ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SUSPICIONS TO THE CONTRARY, 774 00:44:57,896 --> 00:45:01,826 TODD HAS ALWAYS SAID HE DIDN'T COMMIT THIS SECOND RAPE. 775 00:45:01,827 --> 00:45:03,477 BUT THERE WAS NO WAY TO PROVE IT, 776 00:45:03,482 --> 00:45:07,482 SINCE EVIDENCE IN THE UNSOLVED CASE HAVE BEEN DESTROYED. 777 00:45:07,482 --> 00:45:10,412 OR SO THE VICTIM THOUGHT. 778 00:45:10,413 --> 00:45:13,383 Woman: ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, I RECEIVED A REGISTERED LETTER 779 00:45:13,379 --> 00:45:15,589 IN THE MAIL FROM THE TEMPE POLICE DEPARTMENT. 780 00:45:15,586 --> 00:45:21,716 THEY HAD FOUND THIS FINGERPRINT CARD BACK FROM MY CASE IN 1986. 781 00:45:21,724 --> 00:45:24,904 AND THEY JUST RECENTLY RAN IT, 782 00:45:24,896 --> 00:45:30,206 AND THAT IT MATCHED A MAN BY THE NAME OF PAUL WAYNE BARNES. 783 00:45:30,206 --> 00:45:32,306 HE WAS A SERIAL RAPIST, 784 00:45:32,310 --> 00:45:34,970 AND HE IS A LEVEL-3 SEX OFFENDER, 785 00:45:34,965 --> 00:45:37,515 AND THAT HE LIVES IN PRESCOTT VALLEY. 786 00:45:38,275 --> 00:45:40,825 Awes: THIS APPEARS TO BE DEFINITIVE PROOF 787 00:45:40,827 --> 00:45:43,617 TODD KOHLHEPP HADN'T COMMITTED THAT RAPE IN ARIZONA, 788 00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:47,380 AND THAT HE WAS TELLING ME THE TRUTH. 789 00:45:47,379 --> 00:45:49,139 BECAUSE THE STATUE OF LIMITATIONS 790 00:45:49,137 --> 00:45:50,897 HAS RUN OUT ON THIS CASE, 791 00:45:50,896 --> 00:45:54,516 PAUL WAYNE BARNES CAN'T BE CHARGED FOR THIS CRIME. 792 00:45:54,517 --> 00:45:58,027 BUT AT LEAST THIS WOMAN, WHO PREFERS TO REMAIN UNIDENTIFIED, 793 00:45:58,034 --> 00:46:00,344 NOW HAS SOME ANSWERS. 794 00:46:00,344 --> 00:46:02,764 Woman: IT'S BECAUSE OF YOUR PUSHING, FOR SURE. 795 00:46:02,758 --> 00:46:04,068 LIKE, ABSOLUTELY. 796 00:46:04,068 --> 00:46:07,828 THEY -- THEY HAD NO INTEREST IN EVEN PURSUING IT. 797 00:46:07,827 --> 00:46:09,587 Awes: I TELL TODD WHAT I LEARNED. 798 00:46:09,586 --> 00:46:13,966 AND IN AN E-MAIL FROM JUNE 25, 2018, HE SAYS... 799 00:46:23,241 --> 00:46:25,831 SO IF HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS RAPE, 800 00:46:25,827 --> 00:46:28,027 SHOULD I BELIEVE HE'S ALSO TELLING THE TRUTH 801 00:46:28,034 --> 00:46:31,144 ABOUT STABBING TO DEATH TWO MEN HE SAYS HARASSED HIM 802 00:46:31,137 --> 00:46:35,067 AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS BACK IN 2003? 803 00:46:35,068 --> 00:46:37,928 THIS IS WHAT HE TOLD ME IN A PREVIOUS CALL. 804 00:46:45,758 --> 00:46:49,858 WHOEVER THEY WERE, TODD SAYS HE KILLED THEM. 805 00:46:55,344 --> 00:47:00,344 ♪♪ 806 00:47:00,344 --> 00:47:03,764 Awes: I WANT TO ASK FORMER FBI PROFILER JOHN DOUGLAS 807 00:47:03,758 --> 00:47:06,098 WHAT HIS OPINION IS ON WHETHER OUR QUEST 808 00:47:06,103 --> 00:47:10,003 FOR THESE NEW ALLEGED VICTIMS MIGHT BE A WILD GOOSE CHASE. 809 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,830 BUT BEFORE I DO, I TELL HIM 810 00:47:11,827 --> 00:47:14,407 THAT TODD WAS APPARENTLY TELLING THE TRUTH 811 00:47:14,413 --> 00:47:17,243 ABOUT NOT RAPING A SECOND VICTIM IN TEMPE, 812 00:47:17,241 --> 00:47:20,001 WHO SUSPECTED HE WAS HER ASSAILANT. 813 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,210 SHE GOT INFORMATION THAT A FINGERPRINT 814 00:47:23,206 --> 00:47:25,336 THAT WAS TAKEN FROM HER BEDROOM DOOR 815 00:47:25,344 --> 00:47:28,764 MATCHED TO A DIFFERENT LEVEL-3 SEX OFFENDER. 816 00:47:28,758 --> 00:47:31,138 TODD WAS TELLING THE TRUTH, WHICH THERE WAS SOME DOUBT 817 00:47:31,137 --> 00:47:34,377 AT THE TIME THAT HE DID NOT DO THAT RAPE. 818 00:47:34,379 --> 00:47:36,099 AND SO THAT TELLS YOU HE'S TRUTHFUL. 819 00:47:36,103 --> 00:47:39,793 HE'S NOT TRYING TO VOLUNTEER CASES THAT, YOU KNOW, 820 00:47:39,793 --> 00:47:41,103 HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH. 821 00:47:41,103 --> 00:47:42,693 RIGHT, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT 822 00:47:42,689 --> 00:47:44,759 WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE NEXT THING. 823 00:47:44,758 --> 00:47:48,688 HE DID REVEAL SOME INFORMATION ABOUT A COUPLE OF GUYS 824 00:47:48,689 --> 00:47:52,829 THAT HE SAYS HE KILLED AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS, 825 00:47:52,827 --> 00:47:54,657 WHICH IS WHERE HE WAS LIVING 826 00:47:54,655 --> 00:47:58,405 AFTER HE MOVED BACK FROM ARIZONA. 827 00:47:58,413 --> 00:48:02,173 JOHN SAYS HE NEEDS TO HEAR EVERY DETAIL OF TODD'S ACCOUNT 828 00:48:02,172 --> 00:48:06,032 TO DECIDE IF HE FEELS LIKE TODD'S BEING HONEST. 829 00:48:06,034 --> 00:48:08,594 THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO CAME AT HIM AT HUNT CLUB 830 00:48:08,586 --> 00:48:10,476 WERE HARASSING HIM. 831 00:48:10,482 --> 00:48:14,552 ONE GUY HAS A KNIFE. THE OTHER HAS A HAMMER. 832 00:48:14,551 --> 00:48:16,031 TODD SEES THEM. 833 00:48:16,034 --> 00:48:19,904 HE GRABS TWO KNIVES WHICH HE HAS IN HIS POCKETS. 834 00:48:19,896 --> 00:48:23,376 THE FIRST GUY, TODD SLICES HIM ON HIS WRIST. 835 00:48:23,379 --> 00:48:25,999 AND THEN HE SAYS HE STABS THIS MAN IN THE CHEST. 836 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,590 OTHER GUY WITH THE HAMMER TRIES TO RUN AWAY. 837 00:48:28,586 --> 00:48:30,516 TODD STABS HIM IN THE SIDE OF THE NECK. 838 00:48:35,068 --> 00:48:37,928 I TELL JOHN TODD SAYS HE GOES TO HIS APARTMENT, 839 00:48:37,931 --> 00:48:40,031 GETS THINGS TO WRAP THE BODIES IN, 840 00:48:40,034 --> 00:48:42,284 PLACES ONE VICTIM IN THE PASSENGER SEAT, 841 00:48:42,275 --> 00:48:44,065 AND THE OTHER IN THE TRUNK. 842 00:48:44,068 --> 00:48:48,758 HE WASHES AWAY WHATEVER BLOOD EVIDENCE WAS LEFT THERE, 843 00:48:48,758 --> 00:48:53,518 AND THEN HE TAKES OFF WITH THESE TWO GUYS IN HIS CAR. 844 00:48:53,517 --> 00:48:55,547 THEN I TELL JOHN THE DETAILS OF HIS CLAIM 845 00:48:55,551 --> 00:48:56,831 ABOUT DUMPING THE BODIES 846 00:48:56,827 --> 00:49:01,407 SOMEWHERE ALONG A FRONTAGE ROAD NEXT TO I-26. 847 00:49:01,413 --> 00:49:02,663 HE SAYS, "I PUT THE BODIES 848 00:49:02,655 --> 00:49:04,825 BEHIND THE BARRICADE IN A RAVINE. 849 00:49:04,827 --> 00:49:07,517 I'M SURPRISED NO ONE EVER FOUND THEM." 850 00:49:10,862 --> 00:49:13,592 WHAT DO YOU THINK -- TELLING THE TRUTH, 851 00:49:13,586 --> 00:49:15,306 MAKING UP A STORY? 852 00:49:15,310 --> 00:49:16,900 MAYBE YOU'LL BE SURPRISED AT MY ANSWER, 853 00:49:16,896 --> 00:49:18,236 BUT I REALLY THINK HE'S, UH -- 854 00:49:18,241 --> 00:49:19,281 I THINK HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH. 855 00:49:19,275 --> 00:49:21,065 HE'S JUST VERY, VERY SPECIFIC. 856 00:49:21,068 --> 00:49:24,028 AND LITTLE THINGS LIKE GETTING WATER AND COMING BACK DOWN, 857 00:49:24,034 --> 00:49:26,974 AND WASHING AWAY THE BLOOD IN THE PARKING LOT. 858 00:49:26,965 --> 00:49:28,785 THE OTHER THING TO IT IS IT'S NOT A FORM OF 859 00:49:28,793 --> 00:49:31,033 BRAGGING LIKE, "THESE TWO BIG GUYS CAME UP TO ME," 860 00:49:31,034 --> 00:49:32,554 YOU KNOW, "AND THEY GOT THE BIGGEST KNIVES." 861 00:49:32,551 --> 00:49:33,661 ONE GUY HAS A SMALL KNIFE. 862 00:49:33,655 --> 00:49:34,895 THE OTHER GUY HAS A HAMMER. 863 00:49:34,896 --> 00:49:36,276 I DON'T SEE BOASTING. 864 00:49:36,275 --> 00:49:37,855 WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT HIM AND, LIKE, WHEN 865 00:49:37,862 --> 00:49:40,722 AND WHY HE DOES THESE THINGS, THESE ARE TRIGGERING EVENTS. 866 00:49:40,724 --> 00:49:43,974 THERE'S ALWAYS A TRIGGERING EVENT AROUND A PARTICULAR CRIME. 867 00:49:43,965 --> 00:49:46,895 SO IN THIS CASE, THE HARASSMENT, POTENTIALLY, 868 00:49:46,896 --> 00:49:49,096 IF HE REALLY WAS BEING HARASSED BY THESE PEOPLE. 869 00:49:49,103 --> 00:49:52,453 HE'S GONNA GO BACK TO SURVIVAL TECHNIQUES HERE. 870 00:49:52,448 --> 00:49:54,928 HE'S GONNA, YOU KNOW -- AND IT'S REVENGE. 871 00:49:54,931 --> 00:49:56,411 IT'S RETALIATION. 872 00:49:56,413 --> 00:50:00,003 THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE TOLD ME IF HE CAN IDENTIFY THE LOCATION, 873 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,070 WE CAN ALL GO OUT THERE AND LOOK FOR THESE PEOPLE. 874 00:50:03,068 --> 00:50:06,238 AND HE SHOULD RECOGNIZE THE PLACE BECAUSE WAS NIGHTTIME. 875 00:50:06,241 --> 00:50:08,411 AND GENERALLY, WHAT THEY DO IS THEY GO BACK. 876 00:50:08,413 --> 00:50:11,213 THEY GO BACK TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE CONCEALED. 877 00:50:11,206 --> 00:50:12,966 AND SO HE WOULD'VE BEEN BACK THERE, 878 00:50:12,965 --> 00:50:15,095 I WOULD SAY, MORE THAN ONE TIME. 879 00:50:15,103 --> 00:50:18,213 DOUGLAS BELIEVES THERE'S ONE THING WORTH TRYING 880 00:50:18,206 --> 00:50:20,826 TO FIND THESE VICTIMS QUICKLY. 881 00:50:20,827 --> 00:50:22,477 GET HIM OUT THERE IN SHACKLES, 882 00:50:22,482 --> 00:50:23,792 AND LET HIM POINT OUT THE AREA. 883 00:50:23,793 --> 00:50:25,453 THAT'S THE WAY TO SOLVE THE CASE. 884 00:50:29,206 --> 00:50:31,826 I'M ENCOURAGED BY JOHN DOUGLAS' ASSESSMENT 885 00:50:31,827 --> 00:50:34,657 THAT TODD MIGHT BE TELLING THE TRUTH. 886 00:50:34,655 --> 00:50:36,925 WHILE I AGREE THAT THE BEST WAY TO PROCEED 887 00:50:36,931 --> 00:50:39,661 WOULD BE TO BRING TODD OUT TO POSSIBLE LOCATIONS 888 00:50:39,655 --> 00:50:42,615 IN SHACKLES, I KNOW THAT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, 889 00:50:42,620 --> 00:50:44,280 AT LEAST RIGHT AWAY. 890 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,720 I HEAD BACK TO SPARTANBURG COUNTY 891 00:50:48,724 --> 00:50:51,664 TO WORK WITH GARY GARRETT, TODD KOHLHEPP'S BIOGRAPHER, 892 00:50:51,655 --> 00:50:54,405 TO FIND FREEWAY EXITS THAT FIT THE DESCRIPTION 893 00:50:54,413 --> 00:50:58,283 WHERE TODD SAYS HE PUT THE BODIES OF HIS ALLEGED VICTIMS. 894 00:50:58,275 --> 00:51:01,165 THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE WANTS A MAP 895 00:51:01,172 --> 00:51:03,412 OR PHOTOS OF THE LIKELY PLACES 896 00:51:03,413 --> 00:51:08,003 TODD MIGHT HAVE DISPOSED OF THOSE BODIES BACK IN 2003. 897 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,210 SO GARY AND I POOL THE BITS AND PIECES OF THE STORY 898 00:51:11,206 --> 00:51:13,276 HE'S TOLD EACH OF US -- 899 00:51:13,275 --> 00:51:16,025 THAT HE LEFT THE TWO BODIES SOMEWHERE BETWEEN SPARTANBURG 900 00:51:16,034 --> 00:51:19,904 AND COLUMBIA LATE AT NIGHT IN A RAVINE NEAR 901 00:51:19,896 --> 00:51:22,206 A "ROAD ENDS" SIGN. 902 00:51:22,206 --> 00:51:25,096 I KNOW HE SAYS HE DOESN'T REMEMBER. 903 00:51:25,103 --> 00:51:26,833 I DON'T KNOW, THOUGH. 904 00:51:26,827 --> 00:51:28,657 HOW COULD YOU NOT REMEMBER? 905 00:51:28,655 --> 00:51:29,925 I MEAN, HE'S FROM HERE. 906 00:51:29,931 --> 00:51:33,031 I THINK HE DOES KNOW. 907 00:51:33,034 --> 00:51:35,004 WE NEED TO GET TODD TO LOOK AT THE PHOTOS 908 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,930 WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OF THE LOCATIONS 909 00:51:36,931 --> 00:51:38,481 THAT FIT THE DESCRIPTION, 910 00:51:38,482 --> 00:51:42,142 TO SEE IF ANYTHING LOOKS FAMILIAR TO HIM. 911 00:51:42,137 --> 00:51:45,447 BEFORE WE START OUT, WE FIND SIX POSSIBLE LOCATIONS 912 00:51:45,448 --> 00:51:47,588 THAT MIGHT MAKE SENSE BASED ON THE FACT 913 00:51:47,586 --> 00:51:50,096 THAT HE SAYS HE TOOK A RIGHT OFF THE INTERSTATE 914 00:51:50,103 --> 00:51:52,903 AND A LEFT DOWN A FRONTAGE ROAD. 915 00:51:52,896 --> 00:51:54,926 THREE OF THEM DON'T END UP MATCHING THE REST 916 00:51:54,931 --> 00:51:57,101 OF THE DESCRIPTION TODD'S GIVEN. 917 00:51:57,103 --> 00:52:03,283 THE OTHER THREE -- 28, 41, 54 -- HAVE FEATURES THAT DO. 918 00:52:05,586 --> 00:52:08,206 THE FIRST IS EXIT 28 IN ROEBUCK. 919 00:52:08,206 --> 00:52:10,786 IT MATCHES THE GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF RAVINES 920 00:52:10,793 --> 00:52:12,833 BENEATH THE THICK TREE CANOPY, 921 00:52:12,827 --> 00:52:15,827 BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE BARRICADE HERE TODAY 922 00:52:15,827 --> 00:52:19,027 HAS BEEN HERE SINCE 2003. 923 00:52:19,034 --> 00:52:21,624 ALRIGHT. NEXT ONE. 924 00:52:21,620 --> 00:52:24,620 THE SECOND IS EXIT 41 IN ENOREE. 925 00:52:24,620 --> 00:52:27,240 THIS WOODED EXIT HAS RAVINES AND A BARRICADE 926 00:52:27,241 --> 00:52:30,141 ACROSS A CRUMBLING ROAD. 927 00:52:30,137 --> 00:52:34,517 THE ROAD ITSELF ENDS ABOUT 100 YARDS BEYOND THE SIGN. 928 00:52:34,517 --> 00:52:37,477 IT SEEMS SECLUDED ENOUGH TO HIDE A BODY. 929 00:52:37,482 --> 00:52:42,832 BUT LIKE EXIT 28, WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS SIGN WAS HERE IN 2003. 930 00:52:44,448 --> 00:52:48,968 EXIT 54 IN LAURENS COUNTY IS THE LAST ON OUR LIST. 931 00:52:48,965 --> 00:52:50,205 I'M READY TO RULE IT OUT 932 00:52:50,206 --> 00:52:52,586 BECAUSE THE AREA LOOKS RECENTLY DEVELOPED, 933 00:52:52,586 --> 00:52:53,926 AND LIKE ANYTHING BURIED HERE 934 00:52:53,931 --> 00:52:56,691 WOULD'VE TURNED UP IN CONSTRUCTION. 935 00:52:56,689 --> 00:52:59,339 BUT THEN, I SPOT SOMETHING IN THE WOODS 936 00:52:59,344 --> 00:53:02,554 THAT DEFINITELY CHANGES MY MIND. 937 00:53:02,551 --> 00:53:03,971 THAT IS INTERESTING. 938 00:53:12,275 --> 00:53:14,965 Awes: GARY GARRETT AND I ARE TRYING TO LOCATE PLACES 939 00:53:14,965 --> 00:53:16,275 THAT MATCH THE DESCRIPTION 940 00:53:16,275 --> 00:53:20,305 OF WHERE TODD KOHLHEPP MAY HAVE BURIED TWO BODIES. 941 00:53:20,310 --> 00:53:26,000 WE'RE AT EXIT 54 OFF 1-26 IN CLINTON, SOUTH CAROLINA. 942 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,550 LOOK AT THAT. 943 00:53:27,551 --> 00:53:30,281 THAT IS INTERESTING. 944 00:53:30,275 --> 00:53:31,855 THAT LOOKS LIKE A "ROAD CLOSED" SIGN. 945 00:53:31,862 --> 00:53:33,412 OR "ROAD ENDS."YEAH, "ROAD ENDS." 946 00:53:33,413 --> 00:53:35,033 YEAH. 947 00:53:39,517 --> 00:53:43,067 SHOULD WE GO BACK THERE?YEAH, LET'S GO BACK IN THERE. 948 00:53:43,068 --> 00:53:44,548 IS IT IN THE GROUND, OR IS IT --? 949 00:53:44,551 --> 00:53:46,381 THAT TREE HAS GROWN THROUGH IT. 950 00:53:46,379 --> 00:53:48,239 WHAT?THIS HAS BEEN HERE A WHILE. 951 00:53:48,241 --> 00:53:50,661 SEE, THAT TREE'S GROWN THROUGH IT. 952 00:53:50,655 --> 00:53:51,965 SO THIS HAS DEFINITELY BEEN --NO WAY. 953 00:53:51,965 --> 00:53:54,895 IT'S GONE THROUGH HERE AND WEAVED ITSELF UP. 954 00:53:54,896 --> 00:53:57,236 WHAT?THESE PINES GROW QUICK. 955 00:53:57,241 --> 00:53:59,551 THESE HAVE BEEN HERE A WHILE, 956 00:53:59,551 --> 00:54:01,901 SO THAT ROAD CAME DOWN HERE AT SOME POINT. 957 00:54:03,965 --> 00:54:07,025 WITH EVERYTHING I'M SEEING, I HAVE TO WONDER, 958 00:54:07,034 --> 00:54:10,034 ARE WE WALKING ON A BURIAL SITE? 959 00:54:12,137 --> 00:54:13,857 SEE, THERE'S A RAVINE OVER HERE. 960 00:54:13,862 --> 00:54:15,552 BUT THAT JUST SEEMS LIKE A LONG WAY 961 00:54:15,551 --> 00:54:17,971 TO DRAG A BODY FROM OVER THERE. 962 00:54:17,965 --> 00:54:20,715 WELL, YOU'D WANT THEM TO BE BACK FAR ENOUGH, RIGHT? 963 00:54:20,724 --> 00:54:21,834 YEAH, YEAH. 964 00:54:21,827 --> 00:54:22,997 WELL, WHAT KIND OF SHAPE WAS HE IN THEN? 965 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,100 HE WAS IN REALLY GOOD SHAPE THEN. 966 00:54:24,103 --> 00:54:25,213 HE HADN'T BEEN OUT OF PRISON LONG. 967 00:54:25,206 --> 00:54:27,276 HE WAS -- HE WAS A PRETTY STRONG GUY. 968 00:54:27,275 --> 00:54:30,335 I MEAN, IF YOU WERE DRAGGING -- AND THEY WERE SUPPOSEDLY 969 00:54:30,344 --> 00:54:33,484 WRAPPED UP, RIGHT, IN LIKE, A COMFORTER OR SOMETHING. 970 00:54:33,482 --> 00:54:34,932 YEAH, COMFORTER. 971 00:54:34,931 --> 00:54:37,721 WE'LL SEND THESE PHOTOS TO TODD AND ASK HIM TO DECIDE 972 00:54:37,724 --> 00:54:41,344 IF A SPECIFIC LOCATION LOOKS PROMISING. 973 00:54:41,344 --> 00:54:42,834 ONCE HE'S WEIGHED IN, 974 00:54:42,827 --> 00:54:45,207 WE'LL MEET WITH THE SHERIFF'S INVESTIGATORS TO DECIDE 975 00:54:45,206 --> 00:54:48,966 IF THERE'S ENOUGH TO GO ON TO WARRANT A SEARCH. 976 00:54:48,965 --> 00:54:55,275 ♪♪ 977 00:54:55,275 --> 00:54:58,025 IT ONLY TAKES A COUPLE OF WEEKS FOR TODD KOHLHEPP 978 00:54:58,034 --> 00:55:00,314 TO GET THE PHOTOS GARY AND I TOOK, 979 00:55:00,310 --> 00:55:03,000 AND TO WEIGH IN ON WHERE THE BODIES OF THE ALLEGED 980 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,690 HUNT CLUB APARTMENT VICTIMS FROM 2003 MIGHT BE. 981 00:55:07,689 --> 00:55:10,789 FROM THE FRONTAGE ROADS ALONG 1-26 BETWEEN SPARTANBURG 982 00:55:10,793 --> 00:55:13,793 AND COLUMBIA THAT MATCH HIS INITIAL DESCRIPTION, 983 00:55:13,793 --> 00:55:17,003 TODD CHOOSES TO POSSIBLE BURIAL SITES -- 984 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:22,900 EXIT 41 IN ENOREE, AND EXIT 54 IN CLINTON. 985 00:55:22,896 --> 00:55:25,686 THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE ASSEMBLES A TEAM 986 00:55:25,689 --> 00:55:27,689 THAT WILL ASSESS THE INFORMATION WE HAVE 987 00:55:27,689 --> 00:55:31,069 AND DECIDE WHETHER IT'S ENOUGH TO WARRANT A SEARCH. 988 00:55:31,068 --> 00:55:33,338 BEFORE WE MEET, THEY ASSIGN INVESTIGATORS 989 00:55:33,344 --> 00:55:35,554 TO GO TO THE PRISON AND TALK TO TODD. 990 00:55:35,551 --> 00:55:37,411 FOR THE MOST PART, WHAT HE TELLS THEM 991 00:55:37,413 --> 00:55:39,593 ABOUT THE ALLEGED HUNT CLUB APARTMENT MURDERS 992 00:55:39,586 --> 00:55:41,376 SEEMS TO MATCH THE ACCOUNTS 993 00:55:41,379 --> 00:55:45,379 BOTH GARY GARRETT AND I HAVE HEARD BEFORE. 994 00:55:45,379 --> 00:55:47,719 HE TOLD THAT HE DIDN'T RECOGNIZE THE GUYS. 995 00:55:47,724 --> 00:55:50,934 ALL HE WOULD TELL US IS THAT, UM, THAT IN ESSENCE, 996 00:55:50,931 --> 00:55:53,281 HE DISPOSED OF BOTH OF THEM. 997 00:55:53,275 --> 00:55:55,545 HE DID TELL US HE GOT ON AND OFF THE INTERSTATE SEVERAL TIMES, 998 00:55:55,551 --> 00:55:58,721 DRUG THEM INTO THE WOODS, AND LEFT THEM IN A DEPRESSION, 999 00:55:58,724 --> 00:56:00,864 AND THREW BRUSH ON TOP OF THEM. 1000 00:56:00,862 --> 00:56:03,662 AND THAT'S, IN ESSENCE, HIS STORY TO US. 1001 00:56:03,655 --> 00:56:05,755 THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THIS WHOLE THING -- 1002 00:56:05,758 --> 00:56:07,998 I THINK YOU'RE GONNA REMEMBER EVERY MINUTE DETAIL, 1003 00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,000 INCLUDING WHERE YOU PUT THE BODIES. 1004 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,140 DID YOU ASK HIM IF HE WOULD COME AND SHOW YOU 1005 00:56:13,137 --> 00:56:15,167 WHERE THIS HAPPENED, WHERE HE DID THIS? 1006 00:56:15,172 --> 00:56:16,692 AND WHAT -- WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE? 1007 00:56:16,689 --> 00:56:19,689 YES, AND AGAIN, HE REVERTED BACK TO THAT HE WOULD NOT ASSIST 1008 00:56:19,689 --> 00:56:22,409 IN LOCATING THE BODIES UNLESS HE WAS GIVEN IMMUNITY. 1009 00:56:22,413 --> 00:56:24,863 IMMUNITY FROM EITHER THE DEATH PENALTY 1010 00:56:24,862 --> 00:56:27,482 OR PROSECUTION, SHOULD THE BODIES BE FOUND, 1011 00:56:27,482 --> 00:56:30,172 IS NOT SOMETHING THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SOLICITOR, 1012 00:56:30,172 --> 00:56:34,032 BARRY BARNETTE, IS WILLING TO GIVE TODD KOHLHEPP, 1013 00:56:34,034 --> 00:56:37,244 EVEN IF IT MEANS FINDING THE VICTIMS. 1014 00:56:37,241 --> 00:56:38,761 ANOTHER INTERESTING THING THAT HE SAID -- 1015 00:56:38,758 --> 00:56:40,658 HE SAID, "I DON'T WANT THEM FOUND. 1016 00:56:40,655 --> 00:56:42,585 THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE FOUND." 1017 00:56:42,586 --> 00:56:44,406 DOES HE NOT WANT THEM FOUND BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THERE, 1018 00:56:44,413 --> 00:56:45,933 OR DOES HE NOT WANT THEM FOUND 1019 00:56:45,931 --> 00:56:48,141 BECAUSE, LIKE YOU SAID, 1020 00:56:48,137 --> 00:56:50,657 HE BLAMES HIS PLIGHT ON LIFE WITH THEM. 1021 00:56:50,655 --> 00:56:52,025 IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME 1022 00:56:52,034 --> 00:56:54,314 TO DECIPHER A SERIAL KILLER'S MOTIVES, 1023 00:56:54,310 --> 00:56:57,900 BUT I GO OVER EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE SO FAR WITH THE TEAM 1024 00:56:57,896 --> 00:56:59,546 AND SHOW THEM THE TWO LOCATIONS 1025 00:56:59,551 --> 00:57:03,451 TODD CHOSE AS POSSIBLE DUMP SITES FOR THE BODIES. 1026 00:57:03,448 --> 00:57:06,998 THE FIRST ONE WAS THIS EXIT 41 IN ENOREE. 1027 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,520 THIS WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE IN TODD'S DESCRIPTION 1028 00:57:09,517 --> 00:57:12,997 OF WHERE HE PUT THEM, THERE'S A "ROAD ENDS" SIGN. 1029 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,690 SO WE CAME UPON THIS "ROAD ENDS" SIGN, 1030 00:57:15,689 --> 00:57:18,279 AND IT IS PAVED FURTHER HERE. 1031 00:57:18,275 --> 00:57:23,165 THE NEXT PROPERTY THAT HE INDICATED, HE'S THOUGHT EXIT 54. 1032 00:57:23,172 --> 00:57:25,282 SO THIS WAS THE ONE AT THE CLINTON EXIT. 1033 00:57:25,275 --> 00:57:26,715 AND INITIALLY, I THOUGHT, 1034 00:57:26,724 --> 00:57:30,104 "WELL, THIS SEEMS A LITTLE MORE POPULATED. 1035 00:57:30,103 --> 00:57:32,523 THIS SEEMS A LITTLE MORE DEVELOPED OUT HERE." 1036 00:57:32,517 --> 00:57:35,337 THEN YOU FIND THIS "ROAD ENDS" SIGN, 1037 00:57:35,344 --> 00:57:37,864 WHICH IS COMPLETELY BURIED IN THE WOODS 1038 00:57:37,862 --> 00:57:41,002 AND LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME. 1039 00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,210 THERE'S TREES GROWING THROUGH THE SIGN. 1040 00:57:44,206 --> 00:57:48,446 MAYBE THAT SIGN COULD'VE BEEN THERE AS FAR BACK AS 2003. 1041 00:57:48,448 --> 00:57:50,238 DIDN'T ONE OF YOU -- EITHER MARK OR YOU -- 1042 00:57:50,241 --> 00:57:53,901 ASK HIM IF HE HAD WENT AS FAR AS CLINTON? 1043 00:57:53,896 --> 00:57:55,586 AND HE SAID THAT HE DIDN'T GO TO THE CLINTON EXIT. 1044 00:57:55,586 --> 00:57:57,206 CORRECT. HE SAID, "NO, I DIDN'T GO THAT FAR." 1045 00:57:57,206 --> 00:57:59,856 I THINK WE'VE GOT TO STICK WITH WHAT WE KNOW TO -- 1046 00:57:59,862 --> 00:58:01,382 BASED ON WHAT HE'S TELLING US. 1047 00:58:01,379 --> 00:58:04,279 WE DON'T WANT TO GET TO LOOKING FOR THAT PROVERBIAL 1048 00:58:04,275 --> 00:58:06,025 NEEDLE IN A HAYSTACK.OKAY. 1049 00:58:06,034 --> 00:58:08,454 LET'S TAKE THIS -- JUST THE FLIP SIDE OF THIS. 1050 00:58:08,448 --> 00:58:13,718 SO, YES, HE TOLD YOU HE DIDN'T GO AS FAR AS CLINTON. 1051 00:58:13,724 --> 00:58:17,664 BUT WHEN HE WAS PROVIDED PHOTOS OF ALL SIX EXITS BETWEEN HERE 1052 00:58:17,655 --> 00:58:21,335 AND COLUMBIA THAT MATCH, HE SELECTED THAT EXIT. 1053 00:58:21,344 --> 00:58:26,794 SO YOU HAVE HIM TELLING YOU -- TELLING US, "LOOK HERE." 1054 00:58:26,793 --> 00:58:28,453 AND NOW YOU DON'T WANT TO LOOK THERE. 1055 00:58:28,448 --> 00:58:30,718 NO, I NEVER SAID WE DIDN'T WANT TO LOOK THERE. 1056 00:58:30,724 --> 00:58:33,484 I'M JUST SAYING, LOGISTICALLY SPEAKING, 1057 00:58:33,482 --> 00:58:35,862 IF YOU THINK THAT HE'S ON A TRAIL OF DECEPTION, 1058 00:58:35,862 --> 00:58:39,312 WHO'S TO SAYING THAT HE'S GIVING YOU THESE TO -- 1059 00:58:39,310 --> 00:58:41,970 I DON'T THINK HE'S ON A TRAIL OF DECEPTION. 1060 00:58:41,965 --> 00:58:43,855 I -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE 1061 00:58:43,862 --> 00:58:45,622 AS TO WHETHER HE'S TELLING THE TRUTH. 1062 00:58:45,620 --> 00:58:49,070 DO I THINK HE'S INTENTIONALLY MISLEADING US TO EXITS 1063 00:58:49,068 --> 00:58:52,518 WHERE HE DIDN'T PUT THESE PEOPLE? 1064 00:58:52,517 --> 00:58:53,927 NO. 1065 00:58:53,931 --> 00:58:56,411 I GUESS IF YOU ASKED ME THAT QUESTION, I WOULD SAY NO. 1066 00:58:56,413 --> 00:58:59,313 BUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH LOCATIONS ARE WORTH 1067 00:58:59,310 --> 00:59:04,380 A FULL-ON SEARCH STIRS A LOT OF CONTROVERSY FOR THE GROUP. 1068 00:59:04,379 --> 00:59:08,169 STILL, THERE IS AGREEMENT THAT IF A ROAD THAT IS CLOSED TODAY 1069 00:59:08,172 --> 00:59:11,692 WAS ALSO CLOSED AND BARRICADED BACK IN 2003, 1070 00:59:11,689 --> 00:59:16,169 AS TODD AS DESCRIBED, IT'S WORTH A SECOND LOOK. 1071 00:59:16,172 --> 00:59:18,592 SURELY, WE CAN FIND OUT THESE "ROAD CLOSED" SIGNS -- 1072 00:59:18,586 --> 00:59:21,026 GO BACK AND LOOK AND SEE HOW LONG HAS THAT ROAD BEEN CLOSED. 1073 00:59:21,034 --> 00:59:24,104 THE THING THAT GETS ME ON THIS EXIT 54 -- 1074 00:59:24,103 --> 00:59:28,003 WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT SIGN, THERE'S JUST -- 1075 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,520 BEEN THERE A WHILE.IT'S BEEN THERE A LONG TIME. 1076 00:59:31,517 --> 00:59:34,687 EXIT 28 IS PUT BACK ON THE TABLE, TOO. 1077 00:59:34,689 --> 00:59:36,589 EVEN THOUGH TODD DIDN'T CHOOSE IT, 1078 00:59:36,586 --> 00:59:38,716 INVESTIGATORS WANT TO SEE IT. 1079 00:59:38,724 --> 00:59:42,214 WE NEED TO PUT SOMEBODY ON -- ACTUALLY, ON ALL THREE OF THESE, 1080 00:59:42,206 --> 00:59:44,026 FINDING OUT WHEN THE ROADS WERE CLOSED. 1081 00:59:44,034 --> 00:59:45,414 HERE, LET ME GET THIS. 1082 00:59:45,413 --> 00:59:47,243 AND THEN LET'S -- LET'S RIDE DOWN 1083 00:59:47,241 --> 00:59:51,661 AND KIND OF LOOK, UM, TO SEE WHAT LOGISTICALLY 1084 00:59:51,655 --> 00:59:53,615 WE'LL NEED TO PERFORM THESE SEARCHES. 1085 00:59:53,620 --> 00:59:58,410 AND THEN, HOPEFULLY, WE CAN START SEARCHING TOMORROW. 1086 00:59:58,413 --> 01:00:00,863 AS A NEXT STEP, THE INVESTIGATORS DECIDE 1087 01:00:00,862 --> 01:00:04,212 TO VISIT THE SITES IN PERSON TO LOOK FOR OTHER CLUES 1088 01:00:04,206 --> 01:00:06,336 THAT COULD RULE AN EXIT IN OR OUT 1089 01:00:06,344 --> 01:00:10,524 BEFORE THEY BRING IN THE DOGS AND A LARGER SEARCH TEAM. 1090 01:00:10,517 --> 01:00:12,827 I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING -- 1091 01:00:12,827 --> 01:00:14,207 THAT WE MAY HAVE THE POTENTIAL 1092 01:00:14,206 --> 01:00:18,336 TO FIND THESE VICTIMS AND CLOSE NEW CASES. 1093 01:00:19,310 --> 01:00:21,240 AFTER STARTING AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS, 1094 01:00:21,241 --> 01:00:24,861 WE STOP AT EXIT 28 -- THE EXIT TODD DID NOT CHOOSE 1095 01:00:24,862 --> 01:00:26,662 AS THE PLACE HE TOOK THE TWO BODIES, 1096 01:00:26,655 --> 01:00:29,855 BUT THAT WE ALL THINK FITS THE CRITERIA. 1097 01:00:29,862 --> 01:00:32,172 OR AT LEAST MOST OF IT. 1098 01:00:32,172 --> 01:00:33,622 I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S BACK THERE. 1099 01:00:33,620 --> 01:00:35,760 THIS IS OBVIOUSLY THE FURTHEST WE EVER WENT, 1100 01:00:35,758 --> 01:00:37,548 WITH ALL THIS SIGNAGE. 1101 01:00:37,551 --> 01:00:39,971 LET'S JUST WALK BACK HERE FOR A MINUTE, BRANDON. 1102 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:43,340 WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IT IS THE FACT 1103 01:00:43,344 --> 01:00:45,284 THAT IT'S OFF THE INTERSTATE AND YOU CAN SEE THE INTERSTATE, 1104 01:00:45,275 --> 01:00:47,065 WHICH IS THE WAY THAT HE DESCRIBED IT TO US. 1105 01:00:47,068 --> 01:00:49,548 ONE THING THAT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT -- 1106 01:00:49,551 --> 01:00:52,931 IT DOESN'T REALLY FIT WHAT HE SAID -- 1107 01:00:52,931 --> 01:00:54,591 BEING ABLE TO EXIT OFF THE INTERSTATE 1108 01:00:54,586 --> 01:00:57,306 A COUPLE OF TIMES BEFORE HE REACHED HIS DESTINATION. 1109 01:00:57,310 --> 01:01:00,310 THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT DISCOURAGES ME ABOUT THIS. 1110 01:01:00,310 --> 01:01:03,280 ALRIGHT, TAKE A LOOK AT THE NEXT ONE. 1111 01:01:03,275 --> 01:01:07,375 EXIT 41 IN ENOREE IS ANOTHER 12 MILES UP THE ROAD. 1112 01:01:10,103 --> 01:01:13,903 SO, THIS IS WHERE THE SIGN IS NOW. 1113 01:01:13,896 --> 01:01:16,476 I DON'T KNOW IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEEN HERE 15 YEARS. 1114 01:01:16,482 --> 01:01:19,412 IS THIS THE ONLY "ROAD ENDS" SIGN ON HERE? 1115 01:01:19,413 --> 01:01:20,383 ON THIS ROAD? 1116 01:01:20,379 --> 01:01:21,449 YEAH. YES. 1117 01:01:21,448 --> 01:01:22,448 THERE'S NOT ANOTHER ONE DOWN THERE? 1118 01:01:22,448 --> 01:01:23,478 LET'S WALK DOWN HERE. 1119 01:01:23,482 --> 01:01:24,862 THERE ISN'T ANOTHER BARRICADE, 1120 01:01:24,862 --> 01:01:27,382 BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE ROAD. 1121 01:01:27,379 --> 01:01:30,099 IT CURVES, AND SO THERE'S A LITTLE MORE SEPARATION 1122 01:01:30,103 --> 01:01:32,243 FROM 26. 1123 01:01:32,241 --> 01:01:35,691 Awes: EVERYONE'S IMPRESSED WITH THE SITE OFF EXIT 41. 1124 01:01:35,689 --> 01:01:37,589 IT CHECKS A LOT OF THE BOXES -- 1125 01:01:37,586 --> 01:01:41,206 THE SIGN, THE RAVINE, AND A CLEAR END TO THE ROAD. 1126 01:01:41,206 --> 01:01:43,166 THE CONSENSUS IS THAT WE SHOULD FIND OUT 1127 01:01:43,172 --> 01:01:46,792 IF THIS ROAD WAS CLOSED BACK IN 2003. 1128 01:01:46,793 --> 01:01:50,593 IF IT WAS, THIS SITE IS DEFINITELY A CONTENDER. 1129 01:01:54,689 --> 01:01:57,619 AFTER EXIT 41, IT'S ON TO THE LAST SITE -- 1130 01:01:57,620 --> 01:01:59,970 EXIT 54 IN CLINTON, 1131 01:01:59,965 --> 01:02:03,825 THE SITE WHERE THE "ROAD ENDS" SIGN IS BURIED IN THE WOODS. 1132 01:02:03,827 --> 01:02:05,587 THIS IS THE ONE HE PICKED, YEAH. 1133 01:02:05,586 --> 01:02:07,336 AND YOU'LL SEE THIS SIGN BACK HERE, 1134 01:02:07,344 --> 01:02:09,314 AND WE CAN WALK BACK IN HERE. 1135 01:02:12,241 --> 01:02:14,521 WOW. 1136 01:02:14,517 --> 01:02:19,167 YOU CAN SEE THAT ENTIRE TREE HAS GONE AROUND ONE SIDE, 1137 01:02:19,172 --> 01:02:22,692 THROUGH THE BACK, AND ALL THE WAY UP. 1138 01:02:22,689 --> 01:02:24,069 THE TREE GROWING THROUGH IT IS ONE THING. 1139 01:02:24,068 --> 01:02:26,718 BUT EVEN, LIKE, THIS FATTER TREE IS RIGHT NEXT TO IT. 1140 01:02:26,724 --> 01:02:29,624 LIKE, YOU WOULDN'T BE PUTTING A "ROAD CLOSED" SIGN IN BETWEEN 1141 01:02:29,620 --> 01:02:30,790 TWO TREES THAT ARE ALREADY THERE. 1142 01:02:30,793 --> 01:02:32,593 -OH, YEAH. NO DOUBT. -YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? 1143 01:02:32,586 --> 01:02:34,516 LIKE, SOMETHING'S GOING ON WITH THIS SITE. 1144 01:02:37,655 --> 01:02:39,655 THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE SPENDS MOST OF THE DAY 1145 01:02:39,655 --> 01:02:42,925 DIGESTING WHAT THEY'VE SEEN. 1146 01:02:42,931 --> 01:02:46,551 IN THE AFTERNOON, I GET A CALL FROM CAPTAIN COOPER. 1147 01:02:46,551 --> 01:02:49,211 Cooper: WE CAN'T CORROBORATE ANYTHING AT EXIT 28 1148 01:02:49,206 --> 01:02:50,546 THAT LEADS US TO BELIEVE 1149 01:02:50,551 --> 01:02:52,311 THAT THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO SEARCH. 1150 01:02:52,310 --> 01:02:54,480 EXIT 28's OUT. 1151 01:02:54,482 --> 01:02:57,522 EXIT 54 IN CLINTON IS RULED OUT, TOO, 1152 01:02:57,517 --> 01:03:00,657 DESPITE THE FACT THAT TODD HIMSELF IDENTIFIED 1153 01:03:00,655 --> 01:03:02,515 THAT LOCATION. 1154 01:03:02,517 --> 01:03:04,967 INVESTIGATORS LEARNED THERE USED TO BE A DIRT ROAD 1155 01:03:04,965 --> 01:03:07,445 THERE LEADING UP TO THE "ROAD ENDS" SIGN. 1156 01:03:07,448 --> 01:03:10,718 BUT BECAUSE TODD NEVER MENTIONED DRIVING ON A DIRT ROAD, 1157 01:03:10,724 --> 01:03:12,284 THEY RULED IT OUT. 1158 01:03:12,275 --> 01:03:13,715 THERE'S ONE THAT WE'RE GONNA PUT 1159 01:03:13,724 --> 01:03:16,904 BOOTS ON THE GROUND AT. IT'S GONNA BE EXIT 41. 1160 01:03:19,172 --> 01:03:22,032 WHEN IT COMES TO INVESTIGATING HIS NEW CLAIM, 1161 01:03:22,034 --> 01:03:25,594 ONE THING TODD TELLS AUTHORITIES IS HE DOESN'T WANT THE MEDIA, 1162 01:03:25,586 --> 01:03:28,096 OUTSIDE OF MY CREW, INVOLVED. 1163 01:03:28,103 --> 01:03:31,143 BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENS. 1164 01:03:31,137 --> 01:03:33,897 "GREENVILLE NEWS" REPORTER DANIEL GROSS GETS A TIP 1165 01:03:33,896 --> 01:03:36,546 FROM A SOURCE HE REFUSES TO IDENTIFY 1166 01:03:36,551 --> 01:03:38,931 AND BREAKS THE STORY, WHICH IS PICKED UP QUICKLY 1167 01:03:38,931 --> 01:03:41,141 BY LOCAL AND NATIONAL MEDIA. 1168 01:03:41,137 --> 01:03:43,407 INFAMOUS SERIAL KILLER TODD KOHLHEPP, 1169 01:03:43,413 --> 01:03:46,523 KNOWN FOR MURDERING SEVEN PEOPLE IN THE UPSTATE, 1170 01:03:46,517 --> 01:03:48,587 TOLD A TV DOCUMENTARY CREW 1171 01:03:48,586 --> 01:03:52,856 HE HAD HIDDEN THE BODIES OF MORE VICTIMS IN ENOREE. 1172 01:03:52,862 --> 01:03:55,932 Awes: THE LEAK IS DEFINITELY A PROBLEM. 1173 01:03:55,931 --> 01:03:59,931 IT'S NOT THE WAY WE WANTED THINGS TO GO. 1174 01:03:59,931 --> 01:04:02,761 JOHN DOUGLAS AGREES TO GO ON THE UPCOMING SEARCH. 1175 01:04:02,758 --> 01:04:04,548 AND ONCE HE ARRIVES IN TOWN, 1176 01:04:04,551 --> 01:04:06,411 WE'RE CALLED INTO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE 1177 01:04:06,413 --> 01:04:08,973 UNDER CLOAK-AND-DAGGER TO TALK. 1178 01:04:08,965 --> 01:04:10,925 ALL OF A SUDDEN, ONE OF THE REPORTERS, 1179 01:04:10,931 --> 01:04:12,831 DANIEL GROSS, PUBLISHES AN ARTICLE IN 1180 01:04:12,827 --> 01:04:15,927 "THE GREENVILLE NEWS" THAT SHERIFF WRIGHT IS QUOTED IN, 1181 01:04:15,931 --> 01:04:18,241 THAT SAYS TODD KOHLHEPP HAS CONFESSED TO 1182 01:04:18,241 --> 01:04:20,721 KILLING TWO ADDITIONAL VICTIMS. 1183 01:04:20,724 --> 01:04:24,284 WHICH JUST BLEW MY MIND. 1184 01:04:24,275 --> 01:04:27,025 I MEAN, NOW EVERYBODY KNOWS. 1185 01:04:27,034 --> 01:04:29,074 SO WHAT DO YOU THINK THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT'S 1186 01:04:29,068 --> 01:04:31,068 ATTITUDE'S GONNA BE WHEN WE GO SEE THEM? 1187 01:04:31,068 --> 01:04:32,338 THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE HAPPY. 1188 01:04:32,344 --> 01:04:34,694 THEY SAID I COULD BRING YOU, BUT WE HAVE TO GO IN 1189 01:04:34,689 --> 01:04:37,279 NO-RECORDING, NO-CAMERAS, NO-AUDIO. 1190 01:04:37,275 --> 01:04:38,755 I CAN'T HAVE MY PHONE. 1191 01:04:38,758 --> 01:04:41,068 PART OF ME IS WORRIED THEY'LL SAY, 1192 01:04:41,068 --> 01:04:44,998 "WELL, NOW BECAUSE OF THIS MEDIA FRENZY, WE'RE EITHER --" 1193 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:46,310 YOU KNOW, "WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THIS SEARCH 1194 01:04:46,310 --> 01:04:49,000 WHILE YOU'RE HERE OR YOU CAN'T BE PART OF THAT." 1195 01:04:50,689 --> 01:04:53,029 JOHN DOUGLAS BELIEVES TODD'S CLAIMS 1196 01:04:53,034 --> 01:04:55,074 NEED TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY, 1197 01:04:55,068 --> 01:04:57,208 IN PART BECAUSE OF A QUESTIONNAIRE THAT 1198 01:04:57,206 --> 01:05:00,716 HE GAVE TODD TO FILL OUT JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO. 1199 01:05:00,724 --> 01:05:02,484 IT'S A PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSESSMENT 1200 01:05:02,482 --> 01:05:04,902 THAT DOUGLAS GIVES TO ALL OF THE SERIAL KILLERS 1201 01:05:04,896 --> 01:05:09,546 HE COMMUNICATES WITH TO EVALUATE HOW THEY THINK. 1202 01:05:09,551 --> 01:05:13,031 HE PUT MORE IN ON THAT FORM THAN ANY OTHER OFFENDER 1203 01:05:13,034 --> 01:05:16,344 WHO I'VE EVER INTERVIEWED, AND IT'S HIM TALKING HONESTLY. 1204 01:05:16,344 --> 01:05:17,664 AND I JUST BELIEVE HIM. 1205 01:05:17,655 --> 01:05:19,025 HE'S -- HE'S KILLED. 1206 01:05:19,034 --> 01:05:20,904 HE'S KILLED BEFORE. 1207 01:05:20,896 --> 01:05:23,166 JOHN DOUGLAS SAYS THAT TODD'S ANSWERS 1208 01:05:23,172 --> 01:05:25,722 THROUGHOUT THE 69-PAGE QUESTIONNAIRE 1209 01:05:25,724 --> 01:05:28,484 ARE MORE CANDID THAN THOSE OF SERIAL KILLERS 1210 01:05:28,482 --> 01:05:31,622 LIKE TED BUNDY AND CHARLES MANSON. 1211 01:05:31,620 --> 01:05:34,690 TODD GOES INTO DETAIL ABOUT HIS ABUSIVE CHILDHOOD, 1212 01:05:34,689 --> 01:05:37,139 HIS FANTASIES, AND HIS MURDERS. 1213 01:05:37,137 --> 01:05:39,207 AND SOMETHING MORE TELLING -- 1214 01:05:39,206 --> 01:05:42,066 HE INCLUDES THE VICTIMS OF THE HUNT CLUB MURDERS 1215 01:05:42,068 --> 01:05:45,618 HE'S NOW ALLEGING IN HIS TALLY OF KILLS, 1216 01:05:45,620 --> 01:05:50,140 WHICH JOHN DOUGLAS THINKS ADDS TO HIS CREDIBILITY. 1217 01:05:50,137 --> 01:05:53,547 ONCE WE GET TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, WE DO AS INSTRUCTED, 1218 01:05:53,551 --> 01:05:55,001 ENTERING THROUGH THE BACK DOOR 1219 01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,480 AS OTHER MEDIA IS ASSEMBLED OUT FRONT. 1220 01:05:58,482 --> 01:05:59,902 ALRIGHT, WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. 1221 01:05:59,896 --> 01:06:02,336 WE CAN'T -- WE CAN'T BRING A CAMERA, 1222 01:06:02,344 --> 01:06:05,864 EVEN IF WE DON'T HAVE IT ON, IN CASE WE CHANGE OUR MI-- OKAY. 1223 01:06:05,862 --> 01:06:14,622 ♪♪ 1224 01:06:20,137 --> 01:06:25,067 ♪♪ 1225 01:06:25,068 --> 01:06:27,968 Awes: ONE HOUR AFTER WE ENTER THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, 1226 01:06:27,965 --> 01:06:29,895 WE'RE BACK OUT. 1227 01:06:29,896 --> 01:06:32,996 THEY'VE GOTTEN ABOUT 25 CALLS FROM DIFFERENT MEDIA OUTLETS 1228 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:35,830 WANTING TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, WHAT DID TODD CONFESS TO. 1229 01:06:35,827 --> 01:06:38,547 THEY ARE GOING TO STILL CONDUCT THE SEARCH TOMORROW. 1230 01:06:38,551 --> 01:06:40,621 WE'RE STILL ABLE TO GO ALONG WITH THAT. 1231 01:06:40,620 --> 01:06:42,000 THE OTHER MEDIA IS NOT. 1232 01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:45,720 BECAUSE NOW THE MEDIA IS ALL OVER THIS -- 1233 01:06:45,724 --> 01:06:48,034 THIS CASE, THEY ARE -- THEY'RE PAINTED IN A CORNER. 1234 01:06:48,034 --> 01:06:49,694 I TOLD THEM, I SAID, I DO BELIEVE, IN FACT, 1235 01:06:49,689 --> 01:06:52,279 THAT KOHLHEPP IS RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHER MURDERS. 1236 01:06:52,275 --> 01:06:56,095 AND I DO BELIEVE THE STORIES THAT HE HAS TOLD. 1237 01:06:57,620 --> 01:07:00,030 AFTER THE SHERIFF IS BRIEFED ON THE SEARCH PLAN, 1238 01:07:00,034 --> 01:07:03,214 HE AGREES TO MEET WITH ME ONE MORE TIME. 1239 01:07:03,206 --> 01:07:05,966 I THINK HE JUST WANTS TO GO OVER EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED. 1240 01:07:05,965 --> 01:07:09,785 AND PERHAPS NOW HE BELIEVES WE WANT THE SAME THINGS. 1241 01:07:09,793 --> 01:07:12,663 WE NEEDED A PLACE THAT BRINGS THE WHOLE INVESTIGATION 1242 01:07:12,655 --> 01:07:14,895 FULL CIRCLE. 1243 01:07:14,896 --> 01:07:17,236 THE SHIPPING CONTAINER. 1244 01:07:17,241 --> 01:07:20,141 IT'S WHERE KALA BROWN WAS CHAINED BEFORE HER RESCUE 1245 01:07:20,137 --> 01:07:25,307 SHED LIGHT ON TODD'S MURDEROUS PAST FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE. 1246 01:07:25,310 --> 01:07:27,100 IT'S PRETTY SOMBER, ACTUALLY. 1247 01:07:27,103 --> 01:07:28,623 WOW. 1248 01:07:28,620 --> 01:07:31,170 IT'S VERY EERIE TO BE HERE. 1249 01:07:31,172 --> 01:07:33,452 THE SHIPPING CONTAINER IS MUCH LARGER THAN 1250 01:07:33,448 --> 01:07:37,238 I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FROM THE STORIES ABOUT KALA'S RELEASE. 1251 01:07:37,241 --> 01:07:41,211 IN FACT, THE TRACTOR TODD USED TO BURY JOHNNY AND MEAGAN COXIE 1252 01:07:41,206 --> 01:07:44,856 AND CHARLIE CARVER ON HIS PROPERTY IS INSIDE. 1253 01:07:44,862 --> 01:07:47,172 YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THIS FARM EQUIPMENT. 1254 01:07:47,172 --> 01:07:50,212 YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY NOT ANYTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY. 1255 01:07:50,206 --> 01:07:51,786 BUT WHEN IT'S USED FOR WHAT HE'S USING IT FOR, 1256 01:07:51,793 --> 01:07:53,903 IT CERTAINLY IS. 1257 01:07:53,896 --> 01:07:57,856 THERE'S A MAKESHIFT SHEET PUT UP, OR WHATEVER IT IS. 1258 01:07:57,862 --> 01:08:00,282 BACK THERE'S WHERE HE WAS HOLDING MS. KALA. 1259 01:08:00,275 --> 01:08:05,305 THE SHERIFF REMEMBERS HOW THE NOW-INFAMOUS RESCUE CAME ABOUT. 1260 01:08:05,310 --> 01:08:06,720 IT WAS THERE SEPARATING THE -- 1261 01:08:06,724 --> 01:08:09,414 EVERYTHING IS THE SAME AS IT WAS THERE, EXCEPT FOR THE CAGE. 1262 01:08:09,413 --> 01:08:10,693 I THINK WE TOOK THE CAGE OUT. 1263 01:08:10,689 --> 01:08:13,139 SHE WAS CHAINED TO THE WALL. 1264 01:08:13,137 --> 01:08:15,757 I'M REALLY PROUD OF THE TEAM FOR, 1265 01:08:15,758 --> 01:08:17,548 THEY WENT OUT THERE TO SEARCH. 1266 01:08:17,551 --> 01:08:18,621 YOU KNOW, THEY HEARD -- 1267 01:08:18,620 --> 01:08:19,970 [ KNOCKING ON WALL ] 1268 01:08:19,965 --> 01:08:24,205 AND THERE WERE TREES AROUND WITH PINE CONES FALLING. 1269 01:08:24,206 --> 01:08:26,686 ONE OF THE OFFICERS SAID, "I HEAR SOMETHING." 1270 01:08:26,689 --> 01:08:29,239 AND SHE WAS TAKING A CHANCE THAT IT WASN'T HIM. 1271 01:08:29,241 --> 01:08:30,791 RIGHT.AND THEN SHE STARTED SCREAMING, 1272 01:08:30,793 --> 01:08:33,103 AND THAT'S WHEN IT STARTED ROLLING. 1273 01:08:34,517 --> 01:08:35,717 IT'S HARD BELIEVE. 1274 01:08:35,724 --> 01:08:37,214 I MEAN, SEEING THIS AND SEEING THE TRACTOR, 1275 01:08:37,206 --> 01:08:39,136 IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE READING THROUGH 1276 01:08:39,137 --> 01:08:41,337 THE CASE FILE AND EVEN DOING INTERVIEWS -- 1277 01:08:41,344 --> 01:08:43,174 PUTTING EYES ON IT MAKES IT DIFFERENT, DON'T IT? 1278 01:08:43,172 --> 01:08:45,312 IT MAKES -- IT'S JUST A HUGE DIFFERENCE. 1279 01:08:45,310 --> 01:08:47,790 I MEAN, JUST TO PICTURE HIM ON THERE PUTTING BODIES 1280 01:08:47,793 --> 01:08:50,283 IN A TARP, AND I MEAN -- 1281 01:08:50,275 --> 01:08:53,025 YOU CAN'T MAKE NO RHYME OR REASON OUT OF THIS STUFF. 1282 01:08:53,034 --> 01:08:56,034 WILL YOU ALWAYS WONDER IF THERE'S MORE VICTIMS, 1283 01:08:56,034 --> 01:08:59,284 EVEN NOT KNOWING WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE SEARCH TOMORROW? 1284 01:08:59,275 --> 01:09:02,785 I'LL JUST KEEP THE OPTIONS OPEN, LIKE I ALWAYS HAVE. 1285 01:09:02,793 --> 01:09:04,313 AND WE'LL SEE YOU OUT THERE TOMORROW? 1286 01:09:04,310 --> 01:09:05,930 YOU WILL. 1287 01:09:05,931 --> 01:09:07,141 YEP. 1288 01:09:07,137 --> 01:09:08,857 THANK YOU, MS. MARIA.THANK YOU. 1289 01:09:08,862 --> 01:09:13,072 ♪♪ 1290 01:09:13,068 --> 01:09:16,168 Reporter: A NEW REVELATION FROM SERIAL KILLER TODD KOHLHEPP. 1291 01:09:16,172 --> 01:09:20,212 WE HAVE LEARNED MORE VICTIMS COULD BE IN THE UPSTATE. 1292 01:09:20,206 --> 01:09:22,166 Awes: WHEN THE MORNING OF THE SEARCH ARRIVES, 1293 01:09:22,172 --> 01:09:26,832 I'M STILL NOT SURE IF I THINK TODD IS TELLING THE TRUTH. 1294 01:09:26,827 --> 01:09:28,277 GOT THE NEWSPAPER THIS MORNING. 1295 01:09:28,275 --> 01:09:31,405 THIS IS THE SPARTANBURG HERALD-JOURNAL -- 1296 01:09:31,413 --> 01:09:34,833 BIG ARTICLE, "MORE BODIES POSSIBLE." 1297 01:09:34,827 --> 01:09:37,617 SHERIFF SAYS, "TODD KOHLHEPP SAYS HE BURIED 1298 01:09:37,620 --> 01:09:39,790 TWO MORE VICTIMS NEAR THE 1-26." 1299 01:09:39,793 --> 01:09:42,173 I THINK THERE'S A HIGH LEVEL OF SKEPTICISM 1300 01:09:42,172 --> 01:09:44,932 GOING INTO THIS THAT WE'RE GONNA FIND ANYTHING TODAY. 1301 01:09:44,931 --> 01:09:47,591 BUT I ALSO THINK, HOW DO YOU NOT TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY 1302 01:09:47,586 --> 01:09:50,026 WHEN YOU HAVE A SERIAL KILLER WHO'S KILLED SEVEN PEOPLE, 1303 01:09:50,034 --> 01:09:53,174 TELLING YOU THERE'S TWO MORE? 1304 01:09:53,172 --> 01:09:54,932 THE FIRST THING WE SEE WHEN WE ARRIVE 1305 01:09:54,931 --> 01:09:56,551 AT THE SCENE IS THE SHERIFF, 1306 01:09:56,551 --> 01:09:58,831 WHO'S HOLDING A PRESS CONFERENCE FOR OTHER MEDIA 1307 01:09:58,827 --> 01:10:02,997 CLAMORING FOR DETAILS ABOUT WHAT LED TO TODAY'S SEARCH. 1308 01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:05,520 Reporter #2: THIS TIP IS NOT COMING DIRECTLY FROM HIM. 1309 01:10:05,517 --> 01:10:08,547 YOU GUYS GOT A TIP, AND THEN WENT TO HIM WITH IT? 1310 01:10:08,551 --> 01:10:10,861 WE DID GO TO HIM WITH IT. HE DIDN'T WANT TO TALK TO US, 1311 01:10:10,862 --> 01:10:14,002 BUT HE'S TALKING TO SOMEONE ELSE. 1312 01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,410 Awes: FOR THE MOST PART, I THINK TODD DOES TELL THE TRUTH -- 1313 01:10:17,413 --> 01:10:20,283 OR AT LEAST, HIS VERSION OF IT. 1314 01:10:20,275 --> 01:10:23,965 I THINK HE WAS THE SOLE SHOOTER AT SUPERBIKE MOTORSPORTS, 1315 01:10:23,965 --> 01:10:25,825 AND THAT THE REASON SOME OF THE EVIDENCE 1316 01:10:25,827 --> 01:10:29,897 DOESN'T MATCH HIS CONFESSION EXACTLY IS BECAUSE HE WASN'T 1317 01:10:29,896 --> 01:10:33,476 AS ORGANIZED OF A KILLER AS HE'S LED US ALL TO BELIEVE. 1318 01:10:33,482 --> 01:10:35,522 OR MAYBE HE DOESN'T REMEMBER THE DETAILS 1319 01:10:35,517 --> 01:10:40,337 AS CLEARLY AS HE SAYS HE DOES, NOW 15 YEARS LATER. 1320 01:10:40,344 --> 01:10:43,764 WHEN HE SAYS HE DIDN'T RAPE KALA, I THINK IN HIS MIND 1321 01:10:43,758 --> 01:10:47,068 THAT'S TRUE BECAUSE SHE APPEARED TO HIM TO BE WILLING. 1322 01:10:47,068 --> 01:10:49,898 HE'S UNABLE TO CONSIDER SHE MIGHT JUST HAVE BEEN DOING 1323 01:10:49,896 --> 01:10:52,686 WHAT SHE HAD TO DO TO SURVIVE. 1324 01:10:52,689 --> 01:10:54,759 BUT DID HE REALLY DO THIS -- 1325 01:10:54,758 --> 01:10:58,788 A BLOODY DOUBLE-HOMICIDE IN AN OPEN-AIR PARKING LOT, 1326 01:10:58,793 --> 01:11:01,973 FOLLOWED BY A HURRIED BURIAL AT A LOCATION 1327 01:11:01,965 --> 01:11:04,165 HE CAN'T QUITE RECALL? 1328 01:11:04,172 --> 01:11:05,692 I'M NOT SO SURE. 1329 01:11:05,689 --> 01:11:08,859 BUT AT EXIT 41 IN ENOREE, WE NOW HAVE A CHANCE 1330 01:11:08,862 --> 01:11:13,342 TO SNIFF OUT THE TRUTH -- LITERALLY. 1331 01:11:13,344 --> 01:11:16,004 TELL ME ABOUT YOUR TEAM THAT'S OUT HERE TODAY. 1332 01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,310 WE'RE A K-9 UNIT, SOUTH CAROLINA FOOTHILLS SEARCH & RESCUE. 1333 01:11:19,310 --> 01:11:21,790 THE DOGS ARE ACTUALLY TRAINED ON BONE -- 1334 01:11:21,793 --> 01:11:23,383 THE ODOR OF THE BONE. 1335 01:11:23,379 --> 01:11:24,999 THEY'RE TRAINED ON FLESH, BLOOD, 1336 01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,660 TISSUES AT ALL DIFFERENT LEVELS OF DECOMPOSITION. 1337 01:11:28,655 --> 01:11:29,995 AS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THE WOODS, 1338 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,210 YOU'RE INITIALLY GONNA SEE A CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR. 1339 01:11:32,206 --> 01:11:33,826 IT COULD BE A NECK JERK OR SOMETHING. 1340 01:11:33,827 --> 01:11:37,477 THAT'S A FIRST SIGNAL THAT, "OH, MY DOG IS SMELLING 1341 01:11:37,482 --> 01:11:39,452 SOMETHING THAT'S OUT OF THE ORDINARY." 1342 01:11:39,448 --> 01:11:41,138 IN THIS CASE, IT'S 15 YEARS OLD. 1343 01:11:41,137 --> 01:11:42,377 YEAH.IS THAT A PROBLEM? 1344 01:11:42,379 --> 01:11:44,409 IT DOESN'T MATTER TO THE DOG. 1345 01:11:44,413 --> 01:11:46,723 THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE BELIEVES THIS SITE, 1346 01:11:46,724 --> 01:11:51,484 EXIT 41 IN ENOREE, IS THE MOST-LIKELY LOCATION. 1347 01:11:51,482 --> 01:11:54,102 THEY DECIDE TO PLACE CADAVER DOGS NEAR THE INITIAL 1348 01:11:54,103 --> 01:11:56,623 "ROAD ENDS" BARRIER, AND ALSO IN THE AREA 1349 01:11:56,620 --> 01:11:58,760 WHERE THE ROAD ACTUALLY ENDS. 1350 01:11:58,758 --> 01:12:01,478 THEY'LL USE A THIRD DOG TEAM AS NEEDED. 1351 01:12:01,482 --> 01:12:04,242 SEARCHING SOUTH CAROLINA IN THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST 1352 01:12:04,241 --> 01:12:06,761 IN THE WOODS IS NO JOKE. 1353 01:12:06,758 --> 01:12:08,898 I FEEL LIKE I'M IN, UH, THE JUNGLE. 1354 01:12:08,896 --> 01:12:10,306 YEAH. 1355 01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:11,900 WE'RE LOOKING FOR A DEPRESSION 1356 01:12:11,896 --> 01:12:14,966 WHERE THE BODIES COULD'VE BEEN PLACED. 1357 01:12:14,965 --> 01:12:17,895 WITH JAMIE WANNEMACHER, ONE OF THE DOG TEAM HANDLERS, 1358 01:12:17,896 --> 01:12:20,926 WE'RE ALSO LOOKING FOR WALLETS, REMNANTS OF CLOTHING, 1359 01:12:20,931 --> 01:12:24,861 AND MOSTLY FOR HER DOG, NOLAN, AND THE OTHER DOGS TO ALERT -- 1360 01:12:24,862 --> 01:12:28,482 WHICH IS INDICATED BY CHANGES IN THEIR BEHAVIOR. 1361 01:12:28,482 --> 01:12:30,792 SO, THIS'LL BE THE AREA WHERE WE KIND OF NEED TO -- 1362 01:12:30,793 --> 01:12:32,383 -SPREAD? -'CAUSE THIS IS A LITTLE EASIER 1363 01:12:32,379 --> 01:12:33,789 TO WALK IN. 1364 01:12:33,793 --> 01:12:35,173 SO LIKE I SAID, WE'LL KIND OF GO UP THIS WAY, 1365 01:12:35,172 --> 01:12:37,862 AND EVERYBODY ELSE JUST FAN OUT. 1366 01:12:37,862 --> 01:12:40,522 THEY'RE JUST GONNA COME BACK UP THIS WAY. 1367 01:12:40,517 --> 01:12:42,967 WE'RE GONNA GO ACROSS THE CREEK AND WORK LEFT. 1368 01:12:42,965 --> 01:12:44,335 WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CHANCES ARE 1369 01:12:44,344 --> 01:12:46,834 OF REALLY FINDING SOMETHING IN TERRAIN LIKE THIS 1370 01:12:46,827 --> 01:12:49,097 THAT IS AS OLD AS 2003? 1371 01:12:49,103 --> 01:12:50,903 I MEAN, IF IT'S THERE, WE SHOULD FIND IT. 1372 01:12:50,896 --> 01:12:52,716 OKAY. GOOD. 1373 01:12:53,586 --> 01:12:55,896 Awes: THERE'S A LOT OF TRASH THAT'S BEEN LEFT RECENTLY 1374 01:12:55,896 --> 01:12:59,306 ALONG THE ROADSIDE NEARBY, PROBABLY FROM PARTIERS. 1375 01:12:59,310 --> 01:13:03,170 BUT THERE'S NOTHING LIKE THAT FURTHER INTO THE WOODS. 1376 01:13:03,172 --> 01:13:04,762 THAT'S WHY SOMETHING STANDS OUT 1377 01:13:04,758 --> 01:13:08,828 TO ONE OF JAMIE'S TEAM MEMBERS UP AHEAD. 1378 01:13:08,827 --> 01:13:09,967 WHAT'S HAPPENING? 1379 01:13:09,965 --> 01:13:12,275 SHE SAID SHE SEES A PIECE OF A T-SHIRT 1380 01:13:12,275 --> 01:13:14,095 OR SOMETHING KIND OF COMING OUT OF THE GROUND. 1381 01:13:14,103 --> 01:13:15,723 OH. 1382 01:13:15,724 --> 01:13:17,384 SAID THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, SO WE'LL GO CHECK IT. 1383 01:13:17,379 --> 01:13:18,999 NOLAN? 1384 01:13:22,344 --> 01:13:24,794 THERE'S A T-SHIRT STICKING OUT OF THE GROUND. 1385 01:13:24,793 --> 01:13:26,663 -WHERE? -RIGHT THERE. 1386 01:13:31,310 --> 01:13:33,240 BUT HE THREW HIS HEAD UP A COUPLE TIMES IN THAT AREA, 1387 01:13:33,241 --> 01:13:36,411 SO MAYBE JUST PULL IT OUT OF THE GROUND AND SEE. 1388 01:13:36,413 --> 01:13:43,173 ♪♪ 1389 01:13:43,172 --> 01:13:50,002 ♪♪ 1390 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,860 IT DOESN'T TAKE LONG TO DETERMINE THAT THE T-SHIRT 1391 01:13:52,862 --> 01:13:56,902 SHOWS NO EVIDENCE OF BEING ASSOCIATED WITH A DEAD BODY. 1392 01:13:56,896 --> 01:13:58,996 WE MOVE ON. 1393 01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:03,030 HOW MUCH GROUND DO YOU THINK THAT WE'VE COVERED SO FAR? 1394 01:14:03,034 --> 01:14:06,004 UM, PROBABLY A LITTLE OVER A QUARTER-OF-A-MILE. 1395 01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:07,280 OKAY. 1396 01:14:07,275 --> 01:14:09,965 I'M GONNA GO DOWN THIS WAY JUST A LITTLE BIT, 1397 01:14:09,965 --> 01:14:11,585 AND THEN WE'LL CUT BACK LEFT. 1398 01:14:14,413 --> 01:14:16,973 I'M WONDERING HOW THE OTHER TEAMS ARE DOING. 1399 01:14:16,965 --> 01:14:19,445 THERE ARE DOZENS OF PEOPLE AND A HANDFUL OF DOGS 1400 01:14:19,448 --> 01:14:23,618 SEARCHING THE AREA AROUND EXIT 41. 1401 01:14:23,620 --> 01:14:25,520 HOW'S IT GOING DOWN AT THE OTHER PART? 1402 01:14:25,517 --> 01:14:26,927 HAVE THEY SAID ANYTHING? 1403 01:14:26,931 --> 01:14:28,931 WE'RE GONNA WORK THAT WAY. 1404 01:14:28,931 --> 01:14:30,931 SO IN THEORY, WE SHOULD RUN INTO THEM. 1405 01:14:34,448 --> 01:14:37,718 A COUPLE HOURS IN, WE DO MEET UP WITH THE OTHER SEARCH TEAM 1406 01:14:37,724 --> 01:14:39,664 HEADING OUR DIRECTION FROM THE AREA 1407 01:14:39,655 --> 01:14:41,135 OF THE "ROAD CLOSED" SIGN, 1408 01:14:41,137 --> 01:14:44,407 AND WE FIGURE OUT WHAT'S LEFT TO SEARCH. 1409 01:14:44,413 --> 01:14:47,143 GO DOWN ABOUT ANOTHER 50 YARDS. 1410 01:14:47,137 --> 01:14:50,067 JUST WALK STRAIGHT. GO ABOUT ANOTHER 50 YARDS. 1411 01:14:50,068 --> 01:14:52,208 AND I'LL GO ACROSS THE CREEK AND HEAD LEFT. 1412 01:14:52,206 --> 01:14:54,446 AND THEN THAT WAY, Y'ALL CAN FINISH GOING THAT WAY. 1413 01:14:56,275 --> 01:14:59,545 THREE HOURS INTO THE SEARCH, OUR TEAM HAS NO LUCK 1414 01:14:59,551 --> 01:15:02,211 FINDING ANYTHING THAT MIGHT SUGGEST THERE ARE 1415 01:15:02,206 --> 01:15:05,376 OR EVER WERE VICTIMS BURIED OUT HERE. 1416 01:15:05,379 --> 01:15:07,859 BUT WHEN WE GET BACK TO THE TEAM LEADER, 1417 01:15:07,862 --> 01:15:12,002 I FIND OUT ANOTHER TEAM DID FIND SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT. 1418 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,930 WE'VE HAD THREE DOG TEAMS OUT IN SEPARATE AREAS. 1419 01:15:15,931 --> 01:15:19,341 WE HAVE LOCATED FOUR BONES SO FAR. 1420 01:15:19,344 --> 01:15:21,694 EVERYTHING IS CRIMINAL UNTIL WE DETERMINE IT'S NOT. 1421 01:15:27,724 --> 01:15:30,314 ♪♪ 1422 01:15:30,310 --> 01:15:33,000 Awes: THERE'S A SOMBER DISCOVERY. 1423 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,070 I'M EAGER TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE BONES FOUND AT ONE OF THE SITES. 1424 01:15:37,068 --> 01:15:40,828 COULD THEY BELONG TO ONE OF TODD KOHLHEPP'S VICTIMS? 1425 01:15:40,827 --> 01:15:43,167 WERE THE BONES FOUND IN ONE OF THE AREAS 1426 01:15:43,172 --> 01:15:45,172 WHERE THE DOGS WERE --YEAH, THEY WERE CLOSE TO IT. 1427 01:15:45,172 --> 01:15:48,142 AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE LOCATED FOUR BONES, 1428 01:15:48,137 --> 01:15:50,997 THREE OF WHICH WE'VE POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED AS ANIMAL. 1429 01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,170 THAT'S ONE MORE TASK THAT WE'LL DO THIS AFTERNOON, 1430 01:15:53,172 --> 01:15:56,762 IS WE'LL CHECK THAT FOURTH BONE TO DETERMINE WHAT IT IS. 1431 01:15:56,758 --> 01:16:00,238 AS WE WAIT FOR THE RESULTS, JOHN DOUGLAS AND I TALK. 1432 01:16:00,241 --> 01:16:03,241 WE AGREE THAT NO MATTER WHAT IS FOUND, THAT WE BELIEVE 1433 01:16:03,241 --> 01:16:04,621 TODD'S CLAIMS. 1434 01:16:04,620 --> 01:16:06,690 SEARCHING BLIND LIKE WE'VE BEEN DOING 1435 01:16:06,689 --> 01:16:09,589 IS NO SUBSTITUTION FOR HAVING HIM OUT HERE 1436 01:16:09,586 --> 01:16:13,966 IN PERSON TO POTENTIALLY IDENTIFY A BURIAL SITE. 1437 01:16:13,965 --> 01:16:16,655 I DON'T THINK HE'S THE TYPE WHO WANTS TO LIE. 1438 01:16:16,655 --> 01:16:20,235 HE NEEDS TODD KOHLHEPP TO COME OUT HERE, HANDCUFFED, 1439 01:16:20,241 --> 01:16:22,411 AND POINT DIRECTLY TO THE AREA -- 1440 01:16:22,413 --> 01:16:24,903 WHETHER THIS WAS THE SPOT OR SOME OTHER SPOT 1441 01:16:24,896 --> 01:16:26,236 ALONG THIS INTERSTATE. 1442 01:16:26,241 --> 01:16:28,591 I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. HE KILLED THESE PEOPLE. 1443 01:16:28,586 --> 01:16:31,206 HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS GOING TO BE ABLE 1444 01:16:31,206 --> 01:16:32,516 TO TAKE INVESTIGATORS THERE. 1445 01:16:32,517 --> 01:16:34,617 AND THAT'S GONNA BE UP TO THE SOLICITOR, 1446 01:16:34,620 --> 01:16:37,280 IF WHAT HE REALLY WANTS IS A DEAL. 1447 01:16:37,275 --> 01:16:39,305 SOME POINT MAYBE DOWN THE LINE HERE, 1448 01:16:39,310 --> 01:16:40,690 THEY WILL OFFER HIM SOMETHING. 1449 01:16:40,689 --> 01:16:43,139 YOU KNOW, THEY WON'T GIVE HIM THE DEATH PENALTY. 1450 01:16:43,137 --> 01:16:45,067 AND, UH, HE'LL FESS UP. 1451 01:16:45,068 --> 01:16:47,208 IF THERE ARE OTHER VICTIMS THAT REALLY ARE OUT THERE, 1452 01:16:47,206 --> 01:16:48,336 YOU WANT TO FIND THOSE PEOPLE. 1453 01:16:48,344 --> 01:16:50,694 I WANT TO FIND THOSE PEOPLE. 1454 01:16:50,689 --> 01:16:53,309 AS WE'RE TALKING, CAPTAIN COOPER COMES OVER 1455 01:16:53,310 --> 01:16:55,210 WITH THE NEWS WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR, 1456 01:16:55,206 --> 01:17:00,166 ABOUT WHETHER THE LAST BONE FOUND IS ANIMAL OR HUMAN. 1457 01:17:00,172 --> 01:17:03,072 Cooper: WE THOUGHT WE HAD A POSSIBILITY DOWN THERE. 1458 01:17:03,068 --> 01:17:04,998 THEY'VE BEEN ON THE PHONE WITH THE FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST 1459 01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:06,240 FOR THE LAST LITTLE BIT, 1460 01:17:06,241 --> 01:17:08,171 AND HE HAS CONFIRMED IT'S AN ANIMAL BONE. 1461 01:17:08,172 --> 01:17:10,792 HE SAID PROBABLY 20 MINUTES, AND THEY'LL BE WRAPPED UP. 1462 01:17:10,793 --> 01:17:12,483 OKAY. AND THEN THAT WOULD BE THE EXTENT OF IT, THEN. 1463 01:17:12,482 --> 01:17:13,312 YEAH, THAT'S IT. 1464 01:17:13,310 --> 01:17:14,280 YEAH. YEP. 1465 01:17:14,275 --> 01:17:15,755 WE HAD TO RUN OUT WHAT WE HAD. 1466 01:17:15,758 --> 01:17:18,068 AND UNLESS WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S A LOT MORE CREDIBLE 1467 01:17:18,068 --> 01:17:20,308 THAN WHAT WE CAME DOWN HERE ON TODAY, 1468 01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:23,000 UM, OUR JOB DOWN HERE IS KIND OF DONE. 1469 01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,520 DOES IT FEEL LIKE ONE BIG TEASE? 1470 01:17:25,517 --> 01:17:26,897 I'M NOT GONNA SAY THAT. 1471 01:17:26,896 --> 01:17:29,166 UM, HERE'S THE THING. 1472 01:17:29,172 --> 01:17:31,792 IS THERE VICTIMS OUT HERE? ONLY HE KNOWS. 1473 01:17:35,517 --> 01:17:38,447 I DECIDE TO TALK TO GARY GARRETT, TODD'S BIOGRAPHER, 1474 01:17:38,448 --> 01:17:42,998 FOR HIS TAKE ON THE DAY'S EVENTS. 1475 01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:44,450 HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING THE SEARCH COVERAGE? 1476 01:17:44,448 --> 01:17:45,688 Garrett: I HAVE, YEAH. YEAH. 1477 01:17:45,689 --> 01:17:47,759 YOU KNOW WE DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING. 1478 01:17:47,758 --> 01:17:50,658 IT WAS DISAPPOINTING, TO SAY THE LEAST. 1479 01:17:50,655 --> 01:17:53,685 IT TOOK ABOUT -- I WOULD SAY FOUR, 1480 01:17:53,689 --> 01:17:57,759 FOUR-PLUS HOURS TO FINISH SEARCHING THE WHOLE AREA. 1481 01:17:57,758 --> 01:17:59,098 I THINK WE'RE AT THE END OF THE LINE, 1482 01:17:59,103 --> 01:18:01,453 UNLESS TODD DECIDES HE'S GONNA COME CLEAN. 1483 01:18:01,448 --> 01:18:02,758 MM-HMM. 1484 01:18:02,758 --> 01:18:04,618 DO YOU THINK HE'S EVER GOING TO? 1485 01:18:04,620 --> 01:18:06,930 I DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, WHEN I TALKED TO HIM, 1486 01:18:06,931 --> 01:18:09,281 IT SEEMED HE DIDN'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN. 1487 01:18:09,275 --> 01:18:13,405 HE SAID, "I THINK I MIGHT, COULD TAKE YOU TO IT." 1488 01:18:13,413 --> 01:18:17,143 BUT TALKING ABOUT IT AND TELLING THE EXACT LOCATION WAS -- 1489 01:18:17,137 --> 01:18:18,617 SEEMED A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT. 1490 01:18:18,620 --> 01:18:21,590 DO YOU BELIEVE TODD'S STORY ABOUT THE HUNT CLUB VICTIMS? 1491 01:18:21,586 --> 01:18:22,896 I REALLY DO. 1492 01:18:22,896 --> 01:18:24,966 UM, HIS -- EVER SINCE HE FIRST TOLD ME ABOUT IT, 1493 01:18:24,965 --> 01:18:26,305 HE'S BEEN VERY CONSISTENT. 1494 01:18:26,310 --> 01:18:30,030 I THINK TODD PROBABLY DID KILL OTHER PEOPLE. 1495 01:18:30,034 --> 01:18:31,934 EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE INCONSISTENCIES 1496 01:18:31,931 --> 01:18:34,241 IN TODD'S MEMORY OF THE SUPERBIKE MURDERS, 1497 01:18:34,241 --> 01:18:37,031 JOHN DOUGLAS AND I BOTH THINK HE REMEMBERS 1498 01:18:37,034 --> 01:18:40,384 MORE THAN HE'S LETTING ON IN THIS CASE. 1499 01:18:40,379 --> 01:18:42,169 IF THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENT VICTIMS 1500 01:18:42,172 --> 01:18:44,832 ARE TODD'S FIRST TWO HOMICIDES, 1501 01:18:44,827 --> 01:18:47,587 HE WOULD REMEMBER WHERE HE PUT THE BODIES. 1502 01:18:47,586 --> 01:18:49,236 AND IF THE STORY IS TRUE, 1503 01:18:49,241 --> 01:18:51,341 HE SPENT MORE TIME WITH THESE VICTIMS -- 1504 01:18:51,344 --> 01:18:54,554 CLEANING UP THE SCENE, TRANSPORTING THEM IN HIS CAR, 1505 01:18:54,551 --> 01:18:59,791 AND BURYING THEM -- HOPING THEY'D NEVER BE FOUND. 1506 01:18:59,793 --> 01:19:03,663 DO I THINK TODD KOHLHEPP DOESN'T KNOW EXACTLY 1507 01:19:03,655 --> 01:19:06,135 WHERE HE PUT THOSE TWO PEOPLE? 1508 01:19:06,137 --> 01:19:07,407 NO WAY. 1509 01:19:07,413 --> 01:19:09,723 THE FIRST TWO PEOPLE THAT HE KILLED -- 1510 01:19:09,724 --> 01:19:12,864 THE TWO PEOPLE THAT HE BLAMES FOR HIS SORT OF 1511 01:19:12,862 --> 01:19:16,312 ENTIRE DOWNWARD SPIRAL -- HOW DOES HE NOT KNOW? 1512 01:19:16,310 --> 01:19:18,280 I DON'T BUY IT. 1513 01:19:18,275 --> 01:19:24,065 FOR ME, THIS IS A FRUSTRATING END TO OVER A YEAR, 1514 01:19:24,068 --> 01:19:27,518 YOU KNOW, SPENT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, WHAT ELSE DID 1515 01:19:27,517 --> 01:19:28,587 TODD KOHLHEPP DO? 1516 01:19:28,586 --> 01:19:30,516 IT JUST FEELS SO UNSETTLED, 1517 01:19:30,517 --> 01:19:34,447 AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO THINK THERE MAY NEVER BE CLOSURE. 1518 01:19:34,448 --> 01:19:35,758 YEAH. 1519 01:19:35,758 --> 01:19:38,898 THAT'S -- I JUST SO WISH IT COULD BE DIFFERENT. 1520 01:19:38,896 --> 01:19:40,516 I DO, TOO. 1521 01:19:41,517 --> 01:19:47,787 ♪♪ 1522 01:19:47,793 --> 01:19:49,383 NOW BACK HOME IN MINNEAPOLIS, 1523 01:19:49,379 --> 01:19:52,899 I'VE HAD SOME TIME TO THINK OVER EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED. 1524 01:19:52,896 --> 01:19:55,756 I'M LEFT WITH THE STRANGE FEELING THAT TODD STILL HAS 1525 01:19:55,758 --> 01:19:58,548 THE POWER TO CHANGE THIS STORY, 1526 01:19:58,551 --> 01:20:01,621 THAT THERE STILL MAY BE OTHER VICTIMS TO FIND OUT THERE. 1527 01:20:01,620 --> 01:20:05,210 BUT WE'LL FIND THEM IF HE'S IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT. 1528 01:20:25,103 --> 01:20:27,933 WHEN TODD MENTIONS WANTING A DEAL SIGNED BY 1529 01:20:27,931 --> 01:20:31,031 THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER IF HE'S 1530 01:20:31,034 --> 01:20:32,724 GIVING ME A CLUE TO THE TRUE 1531 01:20:32,724 --> 01:20:37,284 WHEREABOUTS OF THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENT VICTIMS. 1532 01:20:37,275 --> 01:20:39,235 NOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 1533 01:20:39,241 --> 01:20:40,621 VERSUS THE SOLICITOR. 1534 01:20:40,620 --> 01:20:42,830 IS THERE A REASON YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 1535 01:20:42,827 --> 01:20:44,967 VERSUS THE SOLICITOR IN THIS CASE? 1536 01:20:53,655 --> 01:20:55,275 OKAY. 1537 01:20:58,241 --> 01:21:01,481 THAT IS TRUE AND VERY INTERESTING. 1538 01:21:01,482 --> 01:21:04,212 DOES HE WANT THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO SIGN A DEAL 1539 01:21:04,206 --> 01:21:06,926 INSTEAD OF THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SOLICITOR 1540 01:21:06,931 --> 01:21:11,411 BECAUSE THE BODIES AREN'T IN SPARTANBURG COUNTY AFTER ALL? 1541 01:21:11,413 --> 01:21:16,033 I FEEL COMPELLED TO ASK TODD MORE ABOUT THAT POSSIBILITY. 1542 01:21:16,034 --> 01:21:17,834 DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE EVEN FURTHER 1543 01:21:17,827 --> 01:21:19,067 THAN SPARTANBURG COUNTY? 1544 01:21:19,068 --> 01:21:21,068 DO YOU THINK YOU DROVE FURTHER? 1545 01:21:43,172 --> 01:21:45,142 AS TODD DESCRIBES THIS LOCATION, 1546 01:21:45,137 --> 01:21:49,827 ALL I CAN THINK OF IS EXIT 54 IN CLINTON. 1547 01:21:49,827 --> 01:21:54,067 IT'S THE EXIT THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE CHOSE NOT TO SEARCH. 1548 01:21:54,068 --> 01:21:55,618 BUT I'M NOT NAIVE. 1549 01:21:55,620 --> 01:21:58,760 THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS WITH TODD'S STORY. 1550 01:21:58,758 --> 01:22:01,998 THEY CAN'T FIND ANY MISSING PEOPLE IN THAT TIMEFRAME. 1551 01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,170 THERE WEREN'T ANY REPORTS OF A DISTURBANCE 1552 01:22:04,172 --> 01:22:06,002 AT THE HUNT CLUB APARTMENTS. 1553 01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:07,830 SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? 1554 01:22:13,137 --> 01:22:17,477 DID YOU PUT THE WALLETS IN WITH THEM, OR JUST NEVER --? 1555 01:22:17,482 --> 01:22:18,662 OKAY. OKAY. 1556 01:22:18,655 --> 01:22:20,785 SO IF THEY WERE TO BE FOUND TODAY, 1557 01:22:20,793 --> 01:22:22,693 THEIR WALLETS WOULD STILL BE THERE. 1558 01:22:25,551 --> 01:22:30,101 ♪♪ 1559 01:22:30,103 --> 01:22:32,693 10 MONTHS AFTER THE SEARCH WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE, 1560 01:22:32,689 --> 01:22:38,689 I GET A NEW LETTER FROM TODD POSTMARKED MARCH 26, 2019. 1561 01:22:38,689 --> 01:22:41,759 IT SEEMS TO CONFIRM SOME OF MY EARLIER SUSPICIONS 1562 01:22:41,758 --> 01:22:44,618 ABOUT WHY HE WANTED THE SOUTH CAROLINA ATTORNEY GENERAL 1563 01:22:44,620 --> 01:22:46,970 TO GIVE HIM IMMUNITY INSTEAD OF 1564 01:22:46,965 --> 01:22:49,825 THE SPARTANBURG COUNTY SOLICITOR. 1565 01:22:49,827 --> 01:22:52,757 HE SAYS, "I DON'T TRUST THE ATTORNEY IN SPARTANBURG, 1566 01:22:52,758 --> 01:22:54,238 AND NOT EVERYTHING I DID 1567 01:22:54,241 --> 01:22:57,691 ON A VARIETY OF LEVELS WAS IN SPARTANBURG. 1568 01:22:57,689 --> 01:23:00,409 A LOT OF THINGS I DON'T WANT TO ADMIT TO, 1569 01:23:00,413 --> 01:23:03,243 BUT LIKE A LOOSE STRING ON A SWEATER, 1570 01:23:03,241 --> 01:23:07,791 ONCE THEY START PULLING, YOU NEVER KNOW HOW FAR IT UNRAVELS. 1571 01:23:07,793 --> 01:23:12,833 I WAS LOOKING AHEAD TO WHAT ELSE THEY EVENTUALLY FIND." 1572 01:23:13,965 --> 01:23:17,715 I THINK TODD KOHLHEPP KILLED MORE PEOPLE. 1573 01:23:17,724 --> 01:23:21,144 AND I HOPE THAT SOME DAY, SOMEHOW, THEY'LL BE FOUND. 1574 01:23:23,620 --> 01:23:25,860 FOR THE FAMILIES OF HIS KNOWN VICTIMS, 1575 01:23:25,862 --> 01:23:29,032 IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE STORIES OF THEIR LOST LOVED ONES 1576 01:23:29,034 --> 01:23:32,344 ARE NOT FORGOTTEN -- THAT THEY LIVE ON. 1577 01:23:32,344 --> 01:23:35,794 IT'S LIKE YOU TURN A PAGE AND START ANOTHER CHAPTER. 1578 01:23:35,793 --> 01:23:38,693 THE EVENTS OF WHAT HAD WENT ON, 1579 01:23:38,689 --> 01:23:42,689 JUST RELIVING MOMENTS -- IT'S STILL HARD TO BELIEVE. 1580 01:23:44,931 --> 01:23:47,481 Awes: EVEN THOUGH WE HAVEN'T FOUND MORE VICTIMS, 1581 01:23:47,482 --> 01:23:50,342 I'M STILL STRUCK BY HOW BRUTALLY HONEST 1582 01:23:50,344 --> 01:23:53,624 TODD HAS BEEN WITH ME ABOUT HIMSELF, 1583 01:23:53,620 --> 01:23:57,720 ABOUT HIS MOTIVES, AND ABOUT HIS REGRETS. 1584 01:23:57,724 --> 01:23:59,284 AND HE HAS THEM. 1585 01:24:13,965 --> 01:24:16,655 I THINK TODD KOHLHEPP IS A SERIAL KILLER 1586 01:24:16,655 --> 01:24:20,825 WHO SHOULD BE BELIEVED MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. 1587 01:24:20,827 --> 01:24:23,207 HE'S A MURDERER WHO TOLD HIS MOTHER 1588 01:24:23,206 --> 01:24:25,376 HE KILLED MANY MORE PEOPLE. 1589 01:24:41,206 --> 01:24:44,616 IS THERE MORE TO DISCOVER? 1590 01:24:44,620 --> 01:24:47,970 ONLY TODD KNOWS THE TRUTH. 1591 01:24:47,965 --> 01:24:51,445 LET'S HOPE HE DECIDES TO SHARE IT. 1592 01:24:51,448 --> 01:24:54,788 AT LEAST, HE WANTS TO KEEP TALKING. 1593 01:24:54,793 --> 01:24:56,283 Kohlhepp: I MAY HAVE A FEW MORE MINUTES. 1594 01:24:56,275 --> 01:24:59,405 I HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING TO DO TO OCCUPY MY TIME. 1595 01:24:59,413 --> 01:25:02,003 ♪♪