1 00:00:29,408 --> 00:00:30,789 DAVID: My name is Dave Paulides 2 00:00:30,823 --> 00:00:32,549 and I'm a former police detective 3 00:00:32,584 --> 00:00:33,964 and current investigative author 4 00:00:33,999 --> 00:00:36,933 focused primarily on mysterious disappearances 5 00:00:36,967 --> 00:00:38,762 in the North American wilderness. 6 00:00:43,284 --> 00:00:45,114 MAN: [SHOUTING] Melvin! 7 00:00:45,148 --> 00:00:48,531 DAVID: My journey into the disappearances began when I was visiting a national park 8 00:00:48,565 --> 00:00:52,362 and was approached by two park rangers who knew I was an author. 9 00:00:52,397 --> 00:00:57,402 They described strange circumstances over the years involving missing hikers. 10 00:00:57,436 --> 00:01:00,405 I immediately began looking into the phenomenon. 11 00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:02,062 Eight years and eight books later, 12 00:01:02,096 --> 00:01:05,237 I've now researched 1200 cases that fit the profile 13 00:01:05,272 --> 00:01:08,068 we are about to examine. 14 00:01:08,102 --> 00:01:11,588 While these cases involve people of all ages and all walks of life, 15 00:01:11,623 --> 00:01:14,281 I've chosen to present some of the most intriguing cases 16 00:01:14,315 --> 00:01:15,972 involving hunters. 17 00:01:16,006 --> 00:01:19,389 Generally speaking, hunters are very experienced, 18 00:01:19,424 --> 00:01:22,461 aware, and knowledgeable outdoorsmen. 19 00:01:23,290 --> 00:01:25,775 And so, when one vanishes, 20 00:01:25,809 --> 00:01:27,949 you know something unusual has occurred. 21 00:01:41,963 --> 00:01:44,414 One of the most perplexing cases I've examined 22 00:01:44,449 --> 00:01:47,176 involves a hunter named Thomas Messick, 23 00:01:47,210 --> 00:01:51,490 who in 2015, went missing in North-East New York. 24 00:01:58,566 --> 00:01:59,809 DAVID: For people who don't know, 25 00:01:59,843 --> 00:02:03,295 the FBI doesn't investigate missing adults. 26 00:02:03,330 --> 00:02:07,679 There's a sub-category for the FBI, that they can become involved 27 00:02:07,713 --> 00:02:10,164 in the disappearance of extremely young children 28 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:11,890 under a certain set of criteria. 29 00:02:13,478 --> 00:02:17,137 So, the million dollar question is, why would the FBI arrive 30 00:02:17,171 --> 00:02:18,724 on Tom Messick's case? 31 00:02:37,674 --> 00:02:41,644 WIFE: He loved the outdoors. He loved being in the woods. 32 00:02:41,678 --> 00:02:43,956 Hunting and fishing was his life. 33 00:02:51,516 --> 00:02:52,896 You want a cookie, honey? 34 00:02:57,453 --> 00:03:00,939 BEVERLY: He was a very good husband, very good father. 35 00:03:02,354 --> 00:03:05,564 And I don't think you will find anybody 36 00:03:06,427 --> 00:03:08,705 who ever met him who didn't like him. 37 00:03:09,879 --> 00:03:11,536 DAVID: And how many kids did you guys have? 38 00:03:11,570 --> 00:03:13,400 BEVERLY: We had three sons. 39 00:03:13,434 --> 00:03:15,747 Tommy, Jean, and Rob. 40 00:03:17,576 --> 00:03:20,234 So, tell me about your dad. What kind of guy was he? 41 00:03:20,269 --> 00:03:25,135 He was kinda, "Do what you got to go to get things done." 42 00:03:25,170 --> 00:03:28,208 Never had a contractor in the house. We always did everything. 43 00:03:28,242 --> 00:03:29,554 You name it. 44 00:03:29,588 --> 00:03:31,970 We lifted the house up, put a foundation under it. 45 00:03:32,004 --> 00:03:33,696 When I was digging it out, I looked up at him, 46 00:03:33,730 --> 00:03:35,145 he had a cup of coffee in his hand 47 00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:36,595 and I said, "Why don't we get a backhoe?" 48 00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:38,252 And he said, "I have one, right there." 49 00:03:38,287 --> 00:03:40,047 [BOTH LAUGH] 50 00:03:40,081 --> 00:03:42,429 What did you guys like to do as a family? 51 00:03:42,463 --> 00:03:45,880 We camped. We did a lot of camping. 52 00:03:45,915 --> 00:03:48,883 And the boys loved it and, you know, 53 00:03:48,918 --> 00:03:52,232 I was kind of the outsider because they were boys 54 00:03:52,266 --> 00:03:56,166 and they hunted and fished and did those things. 55 00:03:58,514 --> 00:04:01,724 SID: I knew Tom before we earned enough 56 00:04:01,758 --> 00:04:03,829 'cause he used to work in Norton with me. 57 00:04:05,175 --> 00:04:08,972 I knew him probably about 55 years or somewhere around there. 58 00:04:09,007 --> 00:04:10,767 DAVID: What did you guys like to do together? 59 00:04:12,217 --> 00:04:13,667 Hunt. Hunt and fish. 60 00:04:13,701 --> 00:04:15,634 It's what we did all the time, really. 61 00:04:15,669 --> 00:04:18,948 [SID'S WIFE SPEAKING] 62 00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:21,951 Yeah, we both had trailers 63 00:04:21,985 --> 00:04:26,127 in which we used to go trailing all the time, come to think of it. 64 00:04:26,162 --> 00:04:28,268 We all got the same vacation in Norton, 65 00:04:28,302 --> 00:04:33,928 so we all took off and went to different places like that. 66 00:04:33,963 --> 00:04:37,277 So, what was your introduction to the outdoors? 67 00:04:37,311 --> 00:04:41,867 It was always there because my father always hunted and fished. 68 00:04:41,902 --> 00:04:46,596 ROB: We got a camp up North, not far from Brant Lake, 69 00:04:46,631 --> 00:04:48,805 for about a week every year. 70 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:50,807 A bunch of guys get together and go hunting. 71 00:05:00,990 --> 00:05:03,889 BEVERLY: He taught hunter training for a long time. 72 00:05:03,924 --> 00:05:08,308 He probably taught every one of the kids around here. 73 00:05:08,342 --> 00:05:12,001 SID: Tom was a great guy. He was an old airborne Ranger. 74 00:05:12,035 --> 00:05:14,831 He was unbelievable in the woods. 75 00:05:14,866 --> 00:05:17,662 He taught my hunting class for me to get my hunting license. 76 00:05:17,696 --> 00:05:19,249 He taught survival. 77 00:05:19,284 --> 00:05:21,804 BEVERLY: He had gunpowder blow up in his face, 78 00:05:21,838 --> 00:05:23,012 and that's how he lost... 79 00:05:23,046 --> 00:05:26,740 He had a 159 stitches in his hand 80 00:05:26,774 --> 00:05:28,845 and he lost his eye that way. 81 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,709 So, he would say to these kids, 82 00:05:30,744 --> 00:05:33,229 "This is what happens if you're not careful." 83 00:05:33,263 --> 00:05:35,196 I mean, he had a lot of issues over the years, 84 00:05:35,231 --> 00:05:39,028 but it never really seemed to slow him down or anything. 85 00:05:39,787 --> 00:05:42,031 So, obviously, he had one eye. 86 00:05:42,065 --> 00:05:43,170 Yeah. 87 00:05:43,204 --> 00:05:45,068 He was sort of blind, it wasn't really that great, 88 00:05:45,103 --> 00:05:46,932 but he could actually see out of it. 89 00:05:46,967 --> 00:05:48,520 And hearing was an issue? 90 00:05:48,555 --> 00:05:49,763 He wasn't that great with hearing. 91 00:05:49,797 --> 00:05:51,937 Hearing, he needed hearing aids. 92 00:05:51,972 --> 00:05:55,182 Would Tom be the kind of guy who would drink a lot or... 93 00:05:55,216 --> 00:05:58,668 No. He didn't drink that much, no. 94 00:05:58,703 --> 00:06:01,982 So, the day when you guys went hunting, did you guys drink when you hunt? 95 00:06:02,534 --> 00:06:04,294 No. 96 00:06:04,329 --> 00:06:07,401 We might have beer with us in the truck. 97 00:06:07,436 --> 00:06:11,750 Out in the woods, we might have a beer or something like that. 98 00:06:11,785 --> 00:06:14,304 Nothing excessive, you know? 99 00:06:14,339 --> 00:06:17,307 How would you describe your dad's judgment? 100 00:06:18,136 --> 00:06:19,931 It was good. 101 00:06:19,965 --> 00:06:23,797 ROB: In fact, it was probably one of his better days 102 00:06:23,831 --> 00:06:24,936 I had seen in a long time. 103 00:06:24,970 --> 00:06:28,457 He was in good spirits and moving great. 104 00:06:28,491 --> 00:06:32,253 Didn't seem to even have an ache or pain in him that day. 105 00:06:32,288 --> 00:06:33,358 He was moving good. 106 00:06:42,263 --> 00:06:43,817 DAVID: How often do you think about it? 107 00:06:44,852 --> 00:06:46,923 I just think about it, well... 108 00:06:46,958 --> 00:06:50,099 SID: You know, it always pops into your mind. 109 00:06:54,483 --> 00:06:56,416 We were doing just kind of a quick thing. 110 00:06:57,486 --> 00:06:59,108 It was late actually. 111 00:06:59,142 --> 00:07:03,077 Almost lunchtime by the time we ended up going up there. 112 00:07:03,112 --> 00:07:05,597 Kind of just a two-hour thing until evening 113 00:07:05,632 --> 00:07:09,118 and we were going to go back to camp and hunt around the camp until dark. 114 00:07:15,055 --> 00:07:16,574 DAVID: How many guys went up there that day? 115 00:07:16,608 --> 00:07:18,576 Seven. 116 00:07:18,610 --> 00:07:21,613 Someone made the decision to hunt over by Brant Lake. 117 00:07:21,648 --> 00:07:22,580 Who made that decision? 118 00:07:22,614 --> 00:07:24,444 I did. 119 00:07:24,478 --> 00:07:27,205 SID: I messaged that we had state land there. 120 00:07:27,239 --> 00:07:30,484 We kind of agreed to hunt it. The roads of Lily Pond. 121 00:07:42,979 --> 00:07:45,050 I mean, we go up that road, straight to the lake 122 00:07:45,085 --> 00:07:47,708 and we parked right at the lake. 123 00:07:47,743 --> 00:07:51,712 And the old guys literally walked down that road 124 00:07:51,747 --> 00:07:53,231 in hundred yard increments. 125 00:07:58,063 --> 00:08:02,827 We walked in 30, 40 yards at the most and sat down. 126 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:12,837 Al was the first watcher. 127 00:08:12,871 --> 00:08:14,252 I was the second. 128 00:08:14,942 --> 00:08:17,255 Joe Capacelli, and then Tom. 129 00:08:18,187 --> 00:08:19,878 So, Tom was furthest from the lake? 130 00:08:19,913 --> 00:08:21,880 He was the furthest one. 131 00:08:21,915 --> 00:08:24,055 We followed the trail along the lake, 132 00:08:24,089 --> 00:08:26,160 come up that snowmobile trail, 133 00:08:26,195 --> 00:08:28,335 hopped into the woods, and swung up to him. 134 00:08:28,369 --> 00:08:31,027 A slow hunt-and-drive type thing. 135 00:08:32,477 --> 00:08:35,445 BEVERLY: The young boys said to the old men, 136 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,240 "You four sit here, 137 00:08:37,275 --> 00:08:40,865 and if we see any deer, we'll push them towards you." 138 00:08:40,899 --> 00:08:44,593 And if Tom was a watcher, Tom would not have moved. 139 00:08:44,627 --> 00:08:46,698 I know that for a fact. 140 00:08:46,733 --> 00:08:48,907 He was a watcher, that's where he was. 141 00:09:03,128 --> 00:09:05,717 -DAVID: Did you see any deer? -SID: None at all. 142 00:09:05,752 --> 00:09:08,582 -No. -Did you hear anything? 143 00:09:08,617 --> 00:09:13,104 I heard a strange noise in the woods, but I don't know what it was. 144 00:09:13,138 --> 00:09:16,935 Just a different noise from what I usually hear, you know? 145 00:09:16,970 --> 00:09:18,178 DAVID: Like what? 146 00:09:19,904 --> 00:09:22,044 It'd be hard to explain because... 147 00:09:22,078 --> 00:09:23,390 But it was different. 148 00:09:23,424 --> 00:09:26,427 Something different that I never heard before in the woods. 149 00:09:28,153 --> 00:09:30,466 I just can't say what it was, you know? 150 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:33,607 How long in duration was it? Was it two or three seconds? 151 00:09:33,642 --> 00:09:35,575 No, it's just... 152 00:09:35,609 --> 00:09:36,921 Whatever it is, you know? 153 00:09:38,267 --> 00:09:40,234 DAVID: How far away was it? 154 00:09:40,269 --> 00:09:44,307 SID: I'd say it was probably 150 yards, something like that. 155 00:09:44,342 --> 00:09:46,344 DAVID: Was it toward Tom, or away from Tom? 156 00:09:46,378 --> 00:09:49,899 SID: This was up towards the hill. The top of the hill. Yeah. 157 00:09:49,934 --> 00:09:51,521 DAVID: Did you tell the cops this? 158 00:09:51,556 --> 00:09:52,453 Yeah, I told them that. 159 00:09:52,488 --> 00:09:55,215 But they just passed it off, you know? 160 00:09:58,770 --> 00:10:01,739 DAVID: The report said that your dad was carrying a walkie-talkie? 161 00:10:01,773 --> 00:10:03,603 -ROB: Yeah. -DAVID: Who else had one? 162 00:10:03,637 --> 00:10:04,673 We all did. 163 00:10:04,707 --> 00:10:06,813 -All on the same channel? -Yup. 164 00:10:06,847 --> 00:10:08,504 -Anybody ever hear anything? -No. 165 00:10:10,299 --> 00:10:11,645 DAVID: Did your dad know how to use it? 166 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:12,612 ROB: Yep. 167 00:10:24,589 --> 00:10:26,936 MAN: Tom? Tom, you around? 168 00:10:26,971 --> 00:10:30,664 ROB: It's one of those things where, you know, he should have been out by now. 169 00:10:30,699 --> 00:10:32,045 SID: We called and called. 170 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:34,841 You know, he should have been sitting on the watch. 171 00:10:34,875 --> 00:10:36,463 MAN: Can you hear me? Holler back. 172 00:10:36,497 --> 00:10:38,499 ROB: And then we went and started looking for him. 173 00:10:44,367 --> 00:10:45,679 DAVID: Anybody fire any shots? 174 00:10:45,714 --> 00:10:47,992 ROB: Yep, we fired shots. 175 00:10:49,407 --> 00:10:51,167 [GUNSHOT] 176 00:10:52,755 --> 00:10:55,171 [GUNSHOT] 177 00:10:55,206 --> 00:10:57,795 ROB: Somebody went down and called the rangers, 178 00:10:57,829 --> 00:10:59,348 and then, we just kept looking. 179 00:11:02,869 --> 00:11:04,180 MAN: [SHOUTING] Tom! 180 00:11:15,847 --> 00:11:19,506 SID: They stayed overnight at the truck, beeping the horn. 181 00:11:19,540 --> 00:11:22,233 I heard shots, different things. 182 00:11:25,754 --> 00:11:29,274 BEVERLY: Robbie called me that night and said, 183 00:11:29,309 --> 00:11:31,725 "Daddy's missing in the woods, but don't worry, 184 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:32,761 we'll find him." 185 00:11:33,762 --> 00:11:36,281 [HORN BEEPING] 186 00:11:36,316 --> 00:11:38,214 [GUNSHOT] 187 00:11:39,422 --> 00:11:41,114 And I said, "I'm coming up." 188 00:11:43,012 --> 00:11:46,878 BEVERLY: And he said, "No, don't come up. I'm sure we're going to find him 189 00:11:46,913 --> 00:11:48,500 and I'll call you." 190 00:11:56,577 --> 00:11:58,303 MATTHEW: The community is very close-knit, 191 00:11:58,338 --> 00:12:00,271 everybody has pretty much grown up together 192 00:12:00,305 --> 00:12:02,066 and knows everybody. 193 00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:09,659 It's mountainous, we have lakes, 194 00:12:09,694 --> 00:12:12,490 we've got lots of opportunities to enjoy yourself. 195 00:12:12,524 --> 00:12:14,078 There's not a lot of pressure here. 196 00:12:15,907 --> 00:12:17,115 MATTHEW: I came into work one morning 197 00:12:17,150 --> 00:12:20,498 and I noticed a State Police helicopter 198 00:12:20,532 --> 00:12:23,881 had landed in our ball field, right here behind the town hall. 199 00:12:23,915 --> 00:12:26,746 And then, I could see some rangers 200 00:12:26,780 --> 00:12:28,575 ranging in our parking lot. 201 00:12:28,609 --> 00:12:31,889 Their vehicles and different apparatus and... 202 00:12:31,923 --> 00:12:33,476 I questioned what was going on 203 00:12:33,511 --> 00:12:36,100 and they said there was a hunter that had been missing. 204 00:12:50,114 --> 00:12:51,909 SHAUN: We did note that when we were up there, 205 00:12:51,943 --> 00:12:53,807 it seemed to be devoid of wildlife. 206 00:12:53,842 --> 00:12:57,466 You know, we didn't see squirrels, chipmunks, deer... 207 00:12:58,743 --> 00:13:00,089 or any signs of them. 208 00:13:00,124 --> 00:13:02,298 How unusual is that for your mountains out here? 209 00:13:03,817 --> 00:13:05,681 I thought it was strange. 210 00:13:05,715 --> 00:13:08,788 Like I said, we didn't see signs of anything out there. 211 00:13:08,822 --> 00:13:10,790 DAVID: How many people did Warren County commit? 212 00:13:10,824 --> 00:13:13,206 We had our Emergency Response Team up there, 213 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,691 which is comprised of 13 team members. 214 00:13:15,725 --> 00:13:18,280 DAVID: So, when you heard about it, what did you do? 215 00:13:18,314 --> 00:13:20,834 Go up there and join the search. 216 00:13:20,869 --> 00:13:22,387 I figured it would be... 217 00:13:22,422 --> 00:13:25,425 We'd go up there and we'd find him and it'd be over, you know? 218 00:13:26,771 --> 00:13:30,188 SID: The Air National Guard was going over with infrared. 219 00:13:30,223 --> 00:13:33,502 State Police had helicopters with a guy out. 220 00:13:33,536 --> 00:13:35,642 We walked through the woods, no matter how thick they were. 221 00:13:35,676 --> 00:13:37,886 You had to see the other guy's ankle. 222 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,820 We went through some terrain you just wouldn't believe, 223 00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:42,476 swamps up to your chest, 224 00:13:42,511 --> 00:13:43,892 and we covered every bit of it. 225 00:13:46,756 --> 00:13:51,554 BEVERLY: They were thinking, maybe he got to a road and got hit by a car. 226 00:13:51,589 --> 00:13:54,695 And so, they checked on the sides of the roads 227 00:13:54,730 --> 00:13:56,663 and never found anything. 228 00:13:56,697 --> 00:14:00,425 The first couple of days, I thought for sure we're going to find him. 229 00:14:01,944 --> 00:14:05,189 After about the third or fourth, I said, "Boy, this ain't good." 230 00:14:07,708 --> 00:14:10,780 A mile out, we were still me to you away. 231 00:14:10,815 --> 00:14:13,162 Walking through the woods, you'd trip over somebody, 232 00:14:13,197 --> 00:14:15,440 nevermind not see him. 233 00:14:15,475 --> 00:14:17,511 We would have what they call "bump lines." 234 00:14:17,546 --> 00:14:20,860 Lines that they would run through the forest 235 00:14:20,894 --> 00:14:23,586 and we knew that was like a start and a stop. 236 00:14:23,621 --> 00:14:25,588 ROB: Guy in the end had a roll of string 237 00:14:25,623 --> 00:14:27,936 and would tie it to a tree and just keep walking. 238 00:14:27,970 --> 00:14:29,765 And when we're done with that grid, they'd tie it off 239 00:14:29,799 --> 00:14:31,767 and then everybody would shift to the other side 240 00:14:32,561 --> 00:14:34,218 and walk back. 241 00:14:34,252 --> 00:14:36,876 And so you know between this string line and this string line 242 00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:38,360 and between your bump lines, 243 00:14:38,394 --> 00:14:40,465 that area has been covered. 244 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,882 And few days later, we were back to the same barriers 245 00:14:42,916 --> 00:14:44,538 and did them the other way. 246 00:14:44,573 --> 00:14:48,439 SID: I mean, we covered every inch of ground up there. 247 00:14:48,473 --> 00:14:51,614 The immediate area looked like a spider web, 248 00:14:51,649 --> 00:14:55,377 because not only did they go this way or this way, 249 00:14:55,411 --> 00:14:56,896 and they went that way. 250 00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:58,380 So, there was string everywhere. 251 00:14:58,414 --> 00:15:01,348 They had 300 people in there one day. 252 00:15:02,073 --> 00:15:03,626 ROB: People asked who he was. 253 00:15:03,661 --> 00:15:05,766 If he was a governor's brother, or something. 254 00:15:06,422 --> 00:15:07,665 It was incredible. 255 00:15:09,425 --> 00:15:12,912 DAVID: How many jurisdictions do you think responded to this search? 256 00:15:12,946 --> 00:15:17,054 DOUG: There was probably a dozen or so volunteer fire departments 257 00:15:17,088 --> 00:15:18,469 that had members here. 258 00:15:18,503 --> 00:15:23,232 Probably 50 or 60 altogether in different organizations. 259 00:15:23,267 --> 00:15:25,510 -DAVID: That's huge. -DOUG: Yeah. 260 00:15:25,545 --> 00:15:29,307 New York State Corrections came out and they searched with their dogs. 261 00:15:29,342 --> 00:15:32,586 There were tonnes of volunteer search and rescue teams 262 00:15:32,621 --> 00:15:34,588 that came out with their K-9 units. 263 00:15:34,623 --> 00:15:37,867 I mean, they... For a little while, but not for very long. 264 00:15:37,902 --> 00:15:40,940 Day two that we were involved in the search up there, 265 00:15:40,974 --> 00:15:43,183 it rained heavily all day. 266 00:15:43,218 --> 00:15:46,946 Obviously, an animal didn't get to him, because there'd be a big scatter. 267 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:49,431 There'd be a huge, you know... His clothes would be ripped up, 268 00:15:49,465 --> 00:15:51,467 his stuff would spread be all over. He'd be easy to find. 269 00:15:55,540 --> 00:15:57,991 BEVERLY: Not even a candy wrapper. 270 00:15:58,026 --> 00:16:00,960 Not that my husband would throw out a candy wrapper, 271 00:16:00,994 --> 00:16:02,133 'cause he wouldn't. 272 00:16:02,168 --> 00:16:03,583 That would be in his pocket. 273 00:16:04,135 --> 00:16:05,516 But, nothing. 274 00:16:05,550 --> 00:16:08,105 Not the walkie-talkie, not his gun. 275 00:16:08,139 --> 00:16:10,314 They never found anything. 276 00:16:10,348 --> 00:16:12,178 You would think that you'd find some trace 277 00:16:12,212 --> 00:16:13,973 of somebody who was there, 278 00:16:14,007 --> 00:16:14,974 especially a weapon, 279 00:16:15,008 --> 00:16:17,390 because a weapon is not going to disappear. 280 00:16:17,424 --> 00:16:18,667 It's not going to blow away. 281 00:16:24,052 --> 00:16:28,504 SHAUN: The FBI, according to their protocol, doesn't search for missing people. 282 00:16:28,539 --> 00:16:30,886 So, do you understand why they were there? 283 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,439 I remember they were there. 284 00:16:32,474 --> 00:16:35,718 I thought they were there to provide some sort of technological support, 285 00:16:35,753 --> 00:16:39,343 but I didn't have any contact with them myself. 286 00:16:39,377 --> 00:16:41,345 Have you ever had them on a search that you've done? 287 00:16:41,724 --> 00:16:42,829 No. 288 00:16:42,863 --> 00:16:46,039 You had a conversation with the FBI, up in Horicon. 289 00:16:46,626 --> 00:16:47,903 What did they tell you? 290 00:16:48,869 --> 00:16:50,250 They said that... 291 00:16:50,285 --> 00:16:52,701 Basically, they were there to tell me that 292 00:16:52,735 --> 00:16:56,843 he now is considered a missing person. 293 00:16:56,877 --> 00:17:02,228 And they felt that something was definitely not right, 294 00:17:02,262 --> 00:17:04,851 but unless and until 295 00:17:04,885 --> 00:17:08,027 they made a recovery, they wouldn't know what it was. 296 00:17:08,061 --> 00:17:11,444 BEVERLY: That was it. That's basically what they said. 297 00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:16,518 DAVID: In the middle of the Adirondacks 298 00:17:16,552 --> 00:17:19,072 where an elderly man disappears, 299 00:17:20,004 --> 00:17:22,558 two agents suddenly show up. 300 00:17:23,801 --> 00:17:26,459 They made their way up to Lily Pond Road 301 00:17:26,493 --> 00:17:30,532 and they started to monitor this incident. 302 00:17:30,566 --> 00:17:33,362 Every time an FBI agent arrives at a scene 303 00:17:33,397 --> 00:17:35,364 and is stating that they're monitoring it, 304 00:17:35,399 --> 00:17:38,471 they're taking notes and they're writing reports 305 00:17:38,505 --> 00:17:43,614 and those reports go to the behavioral analysts in Virginia. 306 00:17:43,648 --> 00:17:47,066 And what their job is, is to look for other cases 307 00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:49,965 that match the profile that they're writing about. 308 00:17:53,969 --> 00:17:57,110 I think they get it. I think they understand. 309 00:17:57,145 --> 00:18:00,424 And maybe they're trying to put the pieces together, just as we are. 310 00:18:13,022 --> 00:18:15,163 ROB: We'd kinda like to know what happened, 311 00:18:15,197 --> 00:18:16,509 but I don't think we ever will. 312 00:18:16,543 --> 00:18:18,718 Even if they found him, we wouldn't know what happened. 313 00:18:20,306 --> 00:18:22,480 Something odd happened, obviously. 314 00:18:22,515 --> 00:18:23,792 We just don't know what. 315 00:18:29,625 --> 00:18:32,490 BEVERLY: I was there until 11 days. 316 00:18:32,525 --> 00:18:34,975 And then, I finally said to my older son, 317 00:18:35,976 --> 00:18:38,496 "I can't sit here anymore. I got to go home." 318 00:18:39,463 --> 00:18:42,121 We came back, I think, for Thanksgiving. 319 00:18:42,155 --> 00:18:44,468 That's when we stopped. 320 00:18:44,502 --> 00:18:48,955 We were down to just me and some rangers 321 00:18:48,989 --> 00:18:51,199 and couple of other guys, that was it, by the time it was over. 322 00:18:53,822 --> 00:18:55,789 BEVERLY: He is such a sweet dog. 323 00:18:55,824 --> 00:19:01,968 He sits at my kitchen window all day long. 324 00:19:02,002 --> 00:19:04,626 He sits here and he waits for Tom to come back. 325 00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:08,526 If you go by my house, you'll see the dog in the window. 326 00:19:08,561 --> 00:19:11,805 Did you dad tell you about a sound he heard in the woods that day? 327 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,361 He said he heard some kind of snapping or crack sound 328 00:19:15,395 --> 00:19:16,845 that was strange. 329 00:19:16,879 --> 00:19:18,674 It wasn't something he normally hears in the woods. 330 00:19:18,709 --> 00:19:20,814 He still talks to me about it. 331 00:19:20,849 --> 00:19:25,094 He almost said it sounded like a big trap closing or something. 332 00:19:26,406 --> 00:19:29,098 I don't know, you know? 333 00:19:29,133 --> 00:19:33,206 Anything that you think that the audience should know about your dad 334 00:19:33,241 --> 00:19:34,518 or about this incident? 335 00:19:35,898 --> 00:19:38,004 I tell you, you really do never know. 336 00:19:38,038 --> 00:19:40,869 I mean, they always say you should go in prepared. 337 00:19:41,697 --> 00:19:45,080 I mean, we treated that hunt 338 00:19:45,114 --> 00:19:47,186 like I was walking out here in the backyard. 339 00:19:48,739 --> 00:19:50,258 It was really nothing. 340 00:19:50,292 --> 00:19:53,261 You just don't expect it. 341 00:19:57,955 --> 00:20:01,441 DAVID: An interesting side note to the disappearance of Tom Messick 342 00:20:01,476 --> 00:20:03,616 is the case of Fred Drumm. 343 00:20:05,721 --> 00:20:11,037 About the tenth day of Tom Messick's search, 344 00:20:11,071 --> 00:20:14,351 the Department of Conservation Rangers for the State of New York 345 00:20:14,385 --> 00:20:16,870 were pulled off of that event 346 00:20:16,905 --> 00:20:21,944 and sent 40 miles South to Schuylerville, New York. 347 00:20:21,979 --> 00:20:25,534 Fred lived on his rural farm with his wife. 348 00:20:25,569 --> 00:20:28,537 Fred was a retired supervisor from his town. 349 00:20:28,572 --> 00:20:30,229 Was an outdoorsman. 350 00:20:30,263 --> 00:20:33,956 On Thanksgiving Day of 2015, 351 00:20:33,991 --> 00:20:36,476 Mrs. Drumm went to attend a banquet, 352 00:20:36,511 --> 00:20:40,825 and when she returned in the afternoon, her husband wasn't there. 353 00:20:40,860 --> 00:20:44,933 His car was there, all of his belongings were in the house, 354 00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:47,591 but he had simply vanished. 355 00:20:48,281 --> 00:20:50,870 There were helicopters, K-9s, 356 00:20:51,422 --> 00:20:54,114 there was a huge SAR. 357 00:20:55,323 --> 00:20:59,119 And the eventual outcome was the same as Tom's. 358 00:20:59,154 --> 00:21:03,469 It's quite a coincidence that two elderly men, both hunters, 359 00:21:03,503 --> 00:21:05,298 disappeared from a rural area, 360 00:21:06,126 --> 00:21:07,611 weren't found, 361 00:21:07,645 --> 00:21:10,234 and both have been just chalked up to disappearing. 362 00:21:34,327 --> 00:21:37,779 The thing that connects all of theMissing 411 cases 363 00:21:37,813 --> 00:21:39,263 are the profile points. 364 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,994 And these have been gleaned after reading thousands of cases 365 00:21:46,028 --> 00:21:49,238 and seeing them come up time after time, 366 00:21:49,273 --> 00:21:53,346 and realizing that they are part of the underlying story 367 00:21:53,381 --> 00:21:54,865 of each of these incidents. 368 00:21:57,730 --> 00:21:59,973 If the victim is with others, 369 00:22:00,008 --> 00:22:03,252 and decides to move away from them and be on their own, 370 00:22:03,287 --> 00:22:08,050 that's the point in time something happens and the victim disappears. 371 00:22:08,085 --> 00:22:10,190 We call this the point of separation. 372 00:22:12,020 --> 00:22:14,747 The most common time for a victim to disappear 373 00:22:14,781 --> 00:22:16,852 is in the mid to late afternoon hours. 374 00:22:18,509 --> 00:22:20,718 Granite boulders and rock fields. 375 00:22:20,753 --> 00:22:26,275 Victims are often found to disappear in the areas of granite or rock fields. 376 00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:28,864 Victims found or disappearing near water... 377 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,108 This is a very common trait 378 00:22:31,142 --> 00:22:33,731 and one that happens anywhere in the world 379 00:22:33,766 --> 00:22:36,251 and isn't isolated to a geographical area. 380 00:22:38,115 --> 00:22:40,842 There appears to be a weather incident 381 00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:44,363 in close proximity to the time that the person disappears 382 00:22:44,397 --> 00:22:46,365 or when the search starts. 383 00:22:46,399 --> 00:22:48,884 The weather issue could be anywhere from a dust storm, 384 00:22:48,919 --> 00:22:50,714 to a full-blown blizzard. 385 00:22:51,577 --> 00:22:53,786 Disability or illness. 386 00:22:53,820 --> 00:22:56,892 Often times, the victim is later found to have 387 00:22:56,927 --> 00:22:58,584 either an obvious, 388 00:22:58,618 --> 00:23:01,414 or a very subliminal disability or illness. 389 00:23:03,243 --> 00:23:06,695 Canines can't find the scent, or lose the scent quickly. 390 00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:10,078 This is an extremely common profile point 391 00:23:10,112 --> 00:23:12,805 that's probably in 95 percent of all the cases 392 00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:14,185 that have been documented. 393 00:23:15,808 --> 00:23:18,431 This is an indictment of Search and Rescue. 394 00:23:18,466 --> 00:23:21,710 But for some unknown reason, the victims are found in an area 395 00:23:21,745 --> 00:23:24,264 that had been searched maybe dozens of times. 396 00:23:25,507 --> 00:23:27,233 Clothes, shoes removed. 397 00:23:27,267 --> 00:23:31,410 A common trait is that the victims are missing clothing or shoes 398 00:23:31,444 --> 00:23:32,756 at the time they're found. 399 00:23:33,619 --> 00:23:34,999 Unknown cause of death. 400 00:23:35,690 --> 00:23:37,450 If the victim is found, 401 00:23:37,485 --> 00:23:41,074 and when they go through a medical examination, 402 00:23:41,109 --> 00:23:43,318 the coroners can't determine a cause of death. 403 00:23:44,699 --> 00:23:47,011 And finally, clusters. 404 00:23:47,046 --> 00:23:49,151 There's a geographical clustering effect 405 00:23:49,186 --> 00:23:52,189 to the victims that fit theMissing 411 profile. 406 00:23:52,223 --> 00:23:55,917 There can be anywhere from three to 70 or 80 people 407 00:23:55,951 --> 00:23:57,988 in each geographical cluster. 408 00:24:16,972 --> 00:24:19,872 This is an area that I've always wanted to come to 409 00:24:19,906 --> 00:24:21,460 for a variety of reasons. 410 00:24:23,047 --> 00:24:25,774 First of all, it's just drop dead gorgeous. 411 00:24:25,809 --> 00:24:29,053 But also, it's a regional cluster 412 00:24:29,088 --> 00:24:32,471 of unexplained missing people going back decades. 413 00:24:53,871 --> 00:24:55,597 This is one of those clusters 414 00:24:56,564 --> 00:24:58,324 of the 59 I've documented 415 00:24:58,358 --> 00:25:01,085 that really has intrigued me over the years. 416 00:25:04,675 --> 00:25:06,919 And within this Santa Fe cluster, 417 00:25:06,953 --> 00:25:09,542 we're going to focus on three very unusual, 418 00:25:09,577 --> 00:25:12,649 very mysterious disappearances. 419 00:25:12,683 --> 00:25:17,619 The first being 75-year-old Audrey Kaplan who disappeared in July 2014. 420 00:25:20,104 --> 00:25:22,003 She was with her husband, 421 00:25:22,037 --> 00:25:25,454 they had a house here in Santa Fe. 422 00:25:25,489 --> 00:25:30,183 And they decided to come up to the ski-resort and look for mushrooms. 423 00:25:30,218 --> 00:25:33,221 It was a popular mushroom picking site up in here. 424 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,018 And what they did, 425 00:25:37,052 --> 00:25:40,608 is they hiked up the trail into the wilderness area 426 00:25:40,642 --> 00:25:43,956 and somewhere or another, they got separated. 427 00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:49,617 Audrey, who was in extremely good shape for an older person, 428 00:25:49,651 --> 00:25:53,586 couldn't be found, and they started to search for her. 429 00:25:53,621 --> 00:25:56,382 Audrey disappeared July 30th, 430 00:25:56,416 --> 00:25:59,730 one of the hottest months in the Santa Fe area. 431 00:25:59,765 --> 00:26:04,390 Now, there were thunderstorms that happened post disappearance. 432 00:26:04,424 --> 00:26:06,461 And that night, they had searchers on scene 433 00:26:06,495 --> 00:26:08,221 and for the following several days, 434 00:26:08,256 --> 00:26:10,120 they scoured that mountain. 435 00:26:10,776 --> 00:26:14,227 And eventually, days later, 436 00:26:14,262 --> 00:26:19,612 one searcher, way off the primary grid area, 437 00:26:19,647 --> 00:26:22,926 came upon a very unusual sight. 438 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,621 He started to see a camping area that seemed to be pretty much destroyed. 439 00:26:28,656 --> 00:26:34,627 And he walked up and he saw a woman in the fetal position, 440 00:26:34,662 --> 00:26:38,079 in about four or five inches of water in a creek, 441 00:26:38,113 --> 00:26:40,288 deceased, naked. 442 00:26:40,322 --> 00:26:42,980 No shoes, no clothing, no nothing. 443 00:26:43,774 --> 00:26:45,638 Her face was in the creek. 444 00:26:45,673 --> 00:26:49,400 Her entire body was lying on its side in the fetal position. 445 00:26:50,056 --> 00:26:51,644 A very strange sight. 446 00:27:01,412 --> 00:27:03,622 And the coroner made a determination 447 00:27:03,656 --> 00:27:06,728 that was even more unusual than the sight in the creek. 448 00:27:16,496 --> 00:27:19,672 And he said that there was no physical evidence 449 00:27:19,707 --> 00:27:22,710 that she died of hypothermia. 450 00:27:22,744 --> 00:27:26,852 But the determination was hypothermia that killed her. 451 00:27:26,886 --> 00:27:30,476 Now, I've read that report 20 times. 452 00:27:30,510 --> 00:27:32,167 It makes no sense. 453 00:27:32,202 --> 00:27:35,308 She had no distinct injuries to her body, 454 00:27:35,343 --> 00:27:39,036 that there was no physical symptoms of hypothermia. 455 00:27:41,832 --> 00:27:47,873 He also stated that in his report, her face wasn't in the water. 456 00:27:47,907 --> 00:27:50,841 And the crime scene photos clearly show 457 00:27:50,876 --> 00:27:53,361 Audrey was completely in that creek. 458 00:27:54,396 --> 00:27:59,263 So, a lot of confusing, strange aspects 459 00:27:59,298 --> 00:28:01,369 to the Audrey Kaplan disappearance. 460 00:28:06,961 --> 00:28:11,517 The second story that involves this exact area 461 00:28:11,551 --> 00:28:14,589 and that's 61-year-old Mel Nadel, 462 00:28:14,623 --> 00:28:17,730 who disappeared up in the wilderness. 463 00:28:17,765 --> 00:28:21,044 Went up to Elk Mountain in the Santa Fe National Forest. 464 00:28:21,078 --> 00:28:22,321 Elk hunting. 465 00:29:01,084 --> 00:29:04,121 What kind of wildlife would somebody find 466 00:29:04,156 --> 00:29:05,640 up in the mountains out here? 467 00:29:05,674 --> 00:29:11,094 We're rich. Elk, mule deer, bear, lions. 468 00:29:11,128 --> 00:29:12,992 DAVID: And the size of the elk and the deer? 469 00:29:13,027 --> 00:29:14,407 BOB: Really good, trophy quality. 470 00:29:14,442 --> 00:29:15,788 Mexico's got really good animals. 471 00:29:15,823 --> 00:29:18,308 We're stingy on our tags, it's a draw system. 472 00:29:21,345 --> 00:29:24,072 So, hunting is a really big sport. 473 00:29:24,107 --> 00:29:26,143 New Mexico is a destination for elk hunters. 474 00:29:26,178 --> 00:29:29,250 The numbers out there are very small compared to our western states, 475 00:29:29,284 --> 00:29:31,217 but our hunting quality is really high. 476 00:29:34,496 --> 00:29:36,705 DAVID: Mel had a slight knee injury. 477 00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:39,122 He had stepped in a gopher hole while target practicing 478 00:29:39,156 --> 00:29:40,468 a day or two prior. 479 00:29:42,539 --> 00:29:44,783 Once Mel met up with his friends at Elk Mountain, 480 00:29:44,817 --> 00:29:48,096 and the three made a plan for the evening's hunt, 481 00:29:48,131 --> 00:29:51,410 Mel would stick close while the other two would go on a pretty good hike. 482 00:29:52,066 --> 00:29:53,446 Mel pointed at a group of trees 483 00:29:53,481 --> 00:29:55,794 about a 100 or 150 yards down the trail, 484 00:29:55,828 --> 00:29:58,141 while the other two would hike in the opposite direction 485 00:29:58,175 --> 00:29:59,314 toward the peak. 486 00:30:16,849 --> 00:30:18,782 Did you expect him to come home that night? 487 00:30:21,164 --> 00:30:23,131 No. The following morning he said he's coming back. 488 00:30:23,166 --> 00:30:24,512 So, he was going to camp up there? 489 00:30:24,546 --> 00:30:25,340 Yes. 490 00:30:25,375 --> 00:30:26,410 -Spend the night. -Yeah. 491 00:30:26,445 --> 00:30:27,653 DAVID: And he's done that before? 492 00:30:27,687 --> 00:30:28,827 Yes. 493 00:30:28,861 --> 00:30:33,072 DAVID: Did Mel ever jog or walk long distances? 494 00:30:33,107 --> 00:30:34,694 EDNA: No. 495 00:30:34,729 --> 00:30:38,077 DAVID: So, if Mel saw an elk, he's not going to walk three miles? 496 00:30:38,112 --> 00:30:39,009 No. 497 00:30:39,044 --> 00:30:40,355 He won't do it? 498 00:30:43,186 --> 00:30:44,566 He doesn't like to walk. 499 00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:48,501 So, knowing that, 500 00:30:48,536 --> 00:30:51,194 then that really puts confinement... 501 00:30:51,228 --> 00:30:53,852 -Yeah. -...on where he would have been. 502 00:30:53,886 --> 00:30:54,887 Yeah. 503 00:31:01,204 --> 00:31:03,862 EDNA: He didn't go hiking with them. 504 00:31:03,896 --> 00:31:08,901 The friends went up the mountain, like, searching for animals. 505 00:31:08,936 --> 00:31:10,938 And then, when they get down, 506 00:31:11,731 --> 00:31:12,871 the jeep was there, 507 00:31:14,113 --> 00:31:15,390 there was no Mel. 508 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,531 DAVID: But he should have been back by then. 509 00:31:18,566 --> 00:31:20,775 He should have been there. 510 00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:38,966 MAN: [SHOUTING] Melvin! 511 00:31:41,278 --> 00:31:42,831 MAN: [SHOUTING] Melvin! 512 00:31:45,075 --> 00:31:46,559 MAN: [SHOUTING] Melvin! 513 00:31:46,594 --> 00:31:47,975 [GUNSHOT] 514 00:31:58,192 --> 00:32:00,919 DAVID: Eventually, another hunter came along with a satellite phone. 515 00:32:00,953 --> 00:32:05,578 They called Search and Rescue, they responded with K-9s, ground teams. 516 00:32:05,613 --> 00:32:07,511 And the K-9s tracked right to the spot 517 00:32:07,546 --> 00:32:09,928 where everyone expected Mel to be, at his blind. 518 00:32:11,101 --> 00:32:13,517 Now, think about this for a minute. 519 00:32:13,552 --> 00:32:17,590 If Mel had wandered, maybe shot an elk, 520 00:32:17,625 --> 00:32:19,765 and traveled to look for it, 521 00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,664 his tracks and his scent would be past that point, 522 00:32:22,699 --> 00:32:23,700 but they weren't. 523 00:32:24,528 --> 00:32:26,945 And Mel was carrying a bow. 524 00:32:27,566 --> 00:32:28,877 He was carrying a firearm. 525 00:32:30,017 --> 00:32:31,742 Where are those items? 526 00:32:33,917 --> 00:32:36,333 When he went out hunting, he had a pistol. 527 00:32:36,989 --> 00:32:38,853 [EDNA SPEAKING] 528 00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:41,373 -Never found the bow? -No. 529 00:32:41,407 --> 00:32:43,271 -Did they ever find anything? -No. 530 00:32:43,306 --> 00:32:45,170 -Never found anything? -No. 531 00:32:45,204 --> 00:32:48,104 That is the bizarre stuff. 532 00:32:48,138 --> 00:32:50,002 How can you carry it if you get lost? 533 00:32:50,037 --> 00:32:53,695 Isn't it going to get heavy to hold onto all of it? 534 00:32:55,042 --> 00:32:56,215 There's nothing. 535 00:32:56,250 --> 00:33:00,219 Shoes... One of the arrows would have fallen, 536 00:33:00,254 --> 00:33:02,877 or the bow has to drop because those are heavy. 537 00:33:03,671 --> 00:33:05,224 Nothing. 538 00:33:05,259 --> 00:33:08,158 DAVID: Did the Search and Rescue people say that was odd? 539 00:33:08,193 --> 00:33:09,677 Everybody said it was odd. 540 00:33:11,334 --> 00:33:13,888 There's nothing. A shred of clothing, nothing. 541 00:33:13,922 --> 00:33:17,719 If he was attacked by a bear, there's no shred of clothing anywhere. 542 00:33:32,596 --> 00:33:34,840 DAVID: And, Bob, how many years have you been guiding? 543 00:33:34,874 --> 00:33:37,498 -BOB: This is my 25th year. -DAVID: 25th year. 544 00:33:37,532 --> 00:33:39,431 DAVID: And how many years of experience do you have 545 00:33:39,465 --> 00:33:41,260 in the mountains surrounding Santa Fe? 546 00:33:41,295 --> 00:33:43,676 I'm 53 now, almost my entire life. 547 00:33:43,711 --> 00:33:44,919 DAVID: I know you know the story. 548 00:33:44,953 --> 00:33:45,989 BOB: Yeah. 549 00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:47,749 What could have happened to him in your mind? 550 00:33:47,784 --> 00:33:50,407 Here in New Mexico, Roswell, alien abduction. 551 00:33:53,755 --> 00:33:54,756 Yeah. 552 00:33:56,379 --> 00:33:58,070 Really, he had to have gotten a ride out. 553 00:33:58,105 --> 00:34:02,385 He had to have been picked up or gotten a ride out, I assume. 554 00:34:02,419 --> 00:34:05,629 If he was a mobile person and a hiking person, 555 00:34:05,664 --> 00:34:08,046 he could just be so far off target 556 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,393 from where anybody assumed he was going. 557 00:34:10,427 --> 00:34:12,188 But in his sense, what we understand, 558 00:34:12,222 --> 00:34:13,810 he probably didn't do that. 559 00:34:13,844 --> 00:34:15,018 DAVID: Right. 560 00:34:15,053 --> 00:34:18,366 He probably didn't take off on a long march anywhere. 561 00:34:18,401 --> 00:34:20,058 History mystery. 562 00:34:20,092 --> 00:34:22,853 What happens to a big jet airline in the huge ocean? 563 00:34:27,444 --> 00:34:30,482 DAVID: As strange as Mel Nadel's case was, 564 00:34:31,517 --> 00:34:33,071 there was another case 565 00:34:34,106 --> 00:34:35,590 much more recently. 566 00:34:36,143 --> 00:34:39,422 On November 7th, 2017, 567 00:34:40,147 --> 00:34:41,631 another hunter disappeared. 568 00:34:45,186 --> 00:34:46,636 Stanley came up to an area 569 00:34:46,670 --> 00:34:49,811 about 10 miles from where Mel Nadel disappeared. 570 00:34:49,846 --> 00:34:52,469 In an area called Barillas Peak. 571 00:34:52,504 --> 00:34:57,267 And he was in his vehicle with his father and another friend 572 00:34:57,302 --> 00:34:59,959 and they were driving the dirt roads looking for deer. 573 00:35:00,788 --> 00:35:02,928 Deer crossed in front of him, 574 00:35:02,962 --> 00:35:06,449 Stanley jumped out with his rifle, chasing the deer. 575 00:35:06,483 --> 00:35:09,176 And just as he was chasing the deer, 576 00:35:09,210 --> 00:35:14,112 fog and heavy rain simultaneously hit that area 577 00:35:14,146 --> 00:35:15,630 where he disappeared into. 578 00:35:16,907 --> 00:35:19,876 And then he wanders, apparently. 579 00:35:21,878 --> 00:35:26,538 I've started a seven-day search for Stanley. 580 00:35:26,572 --> 00:35:28,609 The canines can't pick up the scent. 581 00:35:28,643 --> 00:35:30,369 Helicopters in the air can't see him. 582 00:35:30,404 --> 00:35:32,923 Professional trackers can't find any tracks. 583 00:35:35,478 --> 00:35:37,652 Fast forward five months later, 584 00:35:40,655 --> 00:35:43,175 and an off-duty New Mexico State police officer 585 00:35:43,210 --> 00:35:45,936 and his son are fishing on the Pecos River. 586 00:35:47,490 --> 00:35:49,699 They find a body. 587 00:35:52,357 --> 00:35:54,048 He wasn't immediately identified, 588 00:35:54,082 --> 00:35:56,844 but the coroner eventually came around 589 00:35:56,878 --> 00:36:02,160 to say that it was and that he had some skull injuries 590 00:36:02,194 --> 00:36:03,264 and he had two broken ribs. 591 00:36:04,576 --> 00:36:06,060 Presumption was that he drowned. 592 00:36:09,684 --> 00:36:14,482 Stanley's body was found nine miles from his point of separation. 593 00:36:14,517 --> 00:36:19,107 It's another weird disappearance with this one just happening. 594 00:36:20,350 --> 00:36:22,697 Especially in these cluster zones, 595 00:36:22,732 --> 00:36:24,975 this is one of those recurring phenomena. 596 00:36:27,288 --> 00:36:30,049 It's going to happen again. It's just a matter of time. 597 00:36:32,397 --> 00:36:33,777 In talking with Edna, 598 00:36:33,812 --> 00:36:36,815 one of the things they found in Mel's jeep was his GPS. 599 00:36:37,816 --> 00:36:40,405 Now, that's an important device 600 00:36:40,439 --> 00:36:44,547 that will help you get back to the point where you started the hike 601 00:36:44,581 --> 00:36:47,860 and it's supposed to be a trail guide for you. 602 00:36:47,895 --> 00:36:50,346 Now, personally, I don't think it's unusual 603 00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:52,071 that Mel didn't take that, 604 00:36:52,727 --> 00:36:54,281 because he knew in himself 605 00:36:54,315 --> 00:36:57,663 that he was only going to walk a 100 or 150 yards down that trail. 606 00:36:59,631 --> 00:37:02,703 If you're going to purchase a GPS device, 607 00:37:02,737 --> 00:37:05,292 consider it your insurance plan. 608 00:37:05,326 --> 00:37:07,639 And this is an example 609 00:37:07,673 --> 00:37:11,436 of why you should always carry that insurance plan with you 610 00:37:11,470 --> 00:37:13,369 whenever you go into the wilderness, 611 00:37:13,403 --> 00:37:16,130 hiking, hunting, or sightseeing. 612 00:37:18,926 --> 00:37:21,722 BOB: We're paid to hunt for a five-day period. 613 00:37:21,756 --> 00:37:23,827 So we make sure people pack the right gear 614 00:37:23,862 --> 00:37:26,244 to be able to stay in the field all five days. 615 00:37:26,278 --> 00:37:28,798 Therefore increase our odds the highest possible. 616 00:37:28,832 --> 00:37:32,664 And so, our basic packing list 617 00:37:32,698 --> 00:37:36,392 that I expect hunters to carry in the field 618 00:37:36,426 --> 00:37:40,292 has a hunting license and has a bottle of water they're drinking. 619 00:37:40,327 --> 00:37:42,743 It has a bottle of water you're not planning on drinking. 620 00:37:42,777 --> 00:37:44,158 It has a garbage bag. 621 00:37:44,192 --> 00:37:46,264 That's the most useful wilderness tool in the world 622 00:37:46,298 --> 00:37:50,302 for a raincoat, to sit on, to pack something in. 623 00:37:50,337 --> 00:37:53,512 LAURAN: As a hunter, you're like, "I'm fine. I'm armed, I'm safe. 624 00:37:53,547 --> 00:37:56,757 I'm the baddest thing out here because I have a firearm with me." 625 00:37:56,791 --> 00:37:58,621 And then, you read more and more 626 00:37:58,655 --> 00:38:00,347 and these are people that are more experienced. 627 00:38:00,381 --> 00:38:02,935 They've been in the woods more than I have, you know? 628 00:38:02,970 --> 00:38:06,422 There's no reason for why these people go missing. 629 00:38:06,456 --> 00:38:09,597 And you're like, "Okay, I'm going to pack things differently." 630 00:38:09,632 --> 00:38:11,323 You change your whole mindset. 631 00:38:11,358 --> 00:38:13,670 Take advantage of the technology that you're given today. 632 00:38:13,705 --> 00:38:17,156 You've got the sat phone, you've got GPS, you've got all that. 633 00:38:17,191 --> 00:38:20,332 But then, if you don't want to have to rely on a cell phone signal, 634 00:38:20,367 --> 00:38:22,334 if your battery dies or something like that, 635 00:38:22,369 --> 00:38:24,888 you know, I've got a whistle, I've got a knife. 636 00:38:24,923 --> 00:38:26,821 My knife's got a fire starter. 637 00:38:26,856 --> 00:38:27,995 It's just all about, 638 00:38:28,029 --> 00:38:29,962 "I'm going to be able to take care of myself." 639 00:38:29,997 --> 00:38:32,517 You know, with the camouflage patterns available today, 640 00:38:32,551 --> 00:38:35,727 you've got this one on right here, it's going to be hard to get spotted. 641 00:38:35,761 --> 00:38:37,522 So, carry something bright with you. 642 00:38:37,556 --> 00:38:39,075 This is a space blanket. 643 00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:42,147 And the reason I grab this 'cause it's fluorescent orange, 644 00:38:42,181 --> 00:38:45,564 which is a universal "here I am" code. 645 00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:47,325 DAVID: Tell somebody where you're going. 646 00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:50,466 Tell somebody that is trusted that is going to look after you 647 00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:52,191 and tell them what time you're going to be out. 648 00:38:52,226 --> 00:38:54,987 And if you're not out by then and you're not calling them, 649 00:38:55,022 --> 00:38:56,230 say it's Lauran that you told, 650 00:38:56,264 --> 00:38:58,991 then Lauran you know is going to call the authorities 651 00:38:59,026 --> 00:39:00,890 to come out there and look for you. Super important. 652 00:39:00,924 --> 00:39:04,238 It is and I've heard you say this many times. 653 00:39:04,272 --> 00:39:06,758 Especially writing about Missing 411. 654 00:39:06,792 --> 00:39:08,932 Check the weather. 655 00:39:08,967 --> 00:39:12,488 If you do get lost, it's common sense to stay put. 656 00:39:12,522 --> 00:39:14,490 Stay close to where you started. 657 00:39:14,524 --> 00:39:17,113 Especially if you told somebody. 658 00:39:17,147 --> 00:39:19,357 And you don't want to lay your pack down, 659 00:39:19,391 --> 00:39:22,946 but one thing I will never compromise on is extra ammo. 660 00:39:22,981 --> 00:39:25,535 There's a three-shot rule that a lot of people might... 661 00:39:25,570 --> 00:39:28,262 I don't even think they still teach it in hunter safety course. 662 00:39:28,296 --> 00:39:30,540 That's not where I learned it. I learned it from him. 663 00:39:30,575 --> 00:39:34,233 And it's not only "I'm lost, three shots, here's where I am." 664 00:39:34,268 --> 00:39:36,408 In addition to that, if I go missing, 665 00:39:36,443 --> 00:39:38,686 and for whatever reason I have that extra ammo, 666 00:39:38,721 --> 00:39:40,412 I've used it up, I've spent my shells, 667 00:39:40,447 --> 00:39:42,794 back at camp, they can fire those three shots 668 00:39:42,828 --> 00:39:44,105 and you can tune into 669 00:39:44,140 --> 00:39:46,245 "Okay, I need to turn around. I need to do this." 670 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,903 If you are lost, the best thing you can possibly do 671 00:39:48,938 --> 00:39:51,423 is get yourself into an opening. 672 00:39:51,458 --> 00:39:54,599 And I always tell people, "Take your coat, take something bright, 673 00:39:54,633 --> 00:39:57,878 and wave it around over the top of your head in a big circle." 674 00:39:57,912 --> 00:39:59,397 Like a set of roller blades 675 00:39:59,431 --> 00:40:01,916 or a rope that you're spinning over your head. 676 00:40:01,951 --> 00:40:04,747 It's really, really easy to see that from the air. 677 00:40:06,438 --> 00:40:11,547 Typically, we find, either the person is alive, 678 00:40:11,581 --> 00:40:14,964 or you know, deceased. 679 00:40:15,861 --> 00:40:19,002 Not very often do we not find them. 680 00:40:43,130 --> 00:40:45,615 JEANIE: The Crazy Mountains are a geological upthrust 681 00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:49,757 that is 300 million years younger than the Rocky Mountain range. 682 00:40:49,792 --> 00:40:51,828 So, they're not part of the Rocky Mountain range. 683 00:40:51,863 --> 00:40:54,210 They're an isolated island of mountains. 684 00:40:54,244 --> 00:40:56,108 CHARLIE: If you're in the Crazies, 685 00:40:56,143 --> 00:40:58,110 I don't care where you're at in the Crazies, 686 00:40:58,145 --> 00:41:01,182 if you follow a stream down 687 00:41:01,217 --> 00:41:04,703 you're going to be somewhere soon. 688 00:41:04,738 --> 00:41:06,981 No matter where you are in these mountains. 689 00:41:07,016 --> 00:41:10,882 Because they're just an island chain of mountains. 690 00:41:14,851 --> 00:41:20,616 There are several versions of why the Crazy Mountains are called crazy. 691 00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:26,173 The one I believe is it's a curse from the Crow Indians. 692 00:41:26,207 --> 00:41:28,796 Because this used to be Crow reservation 693 00:41:28,831 --> 00:41:31,730 and when they were moved off the land, 694 00:41:31,765 --> 00:41:35,493 the Crow Indians supposedly put a curse on the Crazy Mountains 695 00:41:35,527 --> 00:41:39,117 for the wind to blow and drive the white man crazy. 696 00:41:43,846 --> 00:41:45,572 My name is Alan Ronneberg. 697 00:41:45,606 --> 00:41:49,990 I'm the Undersheriff with the Sweetgrass County Sheriff's Office. 698 00:41:50,024 --> 00:41:53,545 I'm also the Search and Rescue coordinator. 699 00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:58,550 I've actually been with Search and Rescue for 24 years. 700 00:41:58,585 --> 00:42:00,448 I grew up in this community. 701 00:42:00,483 --> 00:42:03,693 I've been here... I'm 52 years old now. 702 00:42:03,728 --> 00:42:06,006 I've been here all my life. 703 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,940 My parents, grandparents, great grandparents. 704 00:42:08,974 --> 00:42:11,390 They've been here since the 1880s. 705 00:42:13,392 --> 00:42:17,673 It's always been an agricultural and mining community. 706 00:42:17,707 --> 00:42:22,470 The family ranches have been handed down for over a hundred years 707 00:42:22,505 --> 00:42:24,300 to people that work here, 708 00:42:24,334 --> 00:42:27,061 raise their families here and their kids stay here. 709 00:42:28,235 --> 00:42:31,272 And a fantastic place to grow up. 710 00:42:32,929 --> 00:42:34,241 I'm Rebecca Rein. 711 00:42:34,897 --> 00:42:36,208 I'm Charlie Rein. 712 00:42:36,243 --> 00:42:41,144 And we live in Sweetgrass County in Montana in the Crazies. 713 00:42:42,076 --> 00:42:43,595 DAVID: So, tell us about the kind of wildlife 714 00:42:43,630 --> 00:42:45,597 that we would expect to see in the wilderness. 715 00:42:47,012 --> 00:42:49,946 CHARLIE: Deer, white tail, and mule deer. 716 00:42:49,981 --> 00:42:52,328 Elk, black bear. 717 00:42:52,362 --> 00:42:55,262 I don't see many wolves, but they're here. 718 00:42:55,296 --> 00:42:56,953 DAVID: So, no grizzlies up there? 719 00:42:56,988 --> 00:42:58,610 REBECCA: Not that we know of. 720 00:42:58,645 --> 00:43:00,992 CHARLIE: Now, there have been folks that say they saw grizzlies. 721 00:43:01,026 --> 00:43:06,584 We don't have a resident population of grizzly bears yet. 722 00:43:06,618 --> 00:43:09,448 I think they're coming, but there's nothing now. 723 00:43:27,535 --> 00:43:30,297 DAVID: You know, the Crazies themselves... 724 00:43:31,470 --> 00:43:34,612 are unique. 725 00:43:34,646 --> 00:43:40,997 They are the youngest mountain range in the country. 726 00:43:41,032 --> 00:43:43,448 It's horrendously rugged. 727 00:43:43,482 --> 00:43:49,247 And you don't really understand it until you get into it. 728 00:44:18,207 --> 00:44:22,970 ALAN: What supposedly happened as they started on the trail 729 00:44:23,005 --> 00:44:25,179 going up to Campfire Lake, 730 00:44:25,214 --> 00:44:26,698 they had a horse wreck. 731 00:44:26,733 --> 00:44:30,046 Their mule spooked and started bucking and throwing 732 00:44:30,081 --> 00:44:32,497 all their supplies off the trail. 733 00:44:32,531 --> 00:44:35,017 All of Aaron's camping equipment 734 00:44:35,051 --> 00:44:38,399 was basically on that mule. 735 00:44:38,434 --> 00:44:40,470 I know he lost his sleeping bag. 736 00:44:41,782 --> 00:44:44,302 DAVID: And once they got into Campfire Lake, what happened? 737 00:44:45,234 --> 00:44:46,856 ALAN: They started their hunt. 738 00:44:46,891 --> 00:44:51,585 This was their base camp and they went and hunted from here. 739 00:44:52,448 --> 00:44:54,692 They were planning a week trip. 740 00:44:57,591 --> 00:45:00,698 DAVID: Would you describe that he had good common sense? 741 00:45:00,732 --> 00:45:03,010 CHRIS: Yeah, Aaron had good common sense. 742 00:45:03,045 --> 00:45:05,254 Aaron wasn't a dummy. 743 00:45:05,288 --> 00:45:07,739 I mean, someone that comes up here every other weekend, 744 00:45:07,774 --> 00:45:11,363 always hunts up here, has stashes up here. 745 00:45:11,398 --> 00:45:14,194 He knows the area like the back of his hand. 746 00:45:14,228 --> 00:45:18,543 ALAN: They spent two days here at Campfire Lake. 747 00:45:18,577 --> 00:45:26,033 The one fellow had a cache here, somewhere, below Sunlight Lake. 748 00:45:26,068 --> 00:45:32,039 So, Aaron was going to go up the trail, to Sunlight, into the cache 749 00:45:32,074 --> 00:45:34,421 and get what he needed. 750 00:45:34,455 --> 00:45:36,872 He was supposed to go up here, grab the cache, 751 00:45:36,906 --> 00:45:39,046 and then come down to his friends. 752 00:45:39,081 --> 00:45:41,152 ALAN: Come back into Campfire Lake. 753 00:45:50,713 --> 00:45:52,059 ALAN: Later that day, 754 00:45:52,094 --> 00:45:55,683 Nate had called Aaron on the radio. 755 00:45:55,718 --> 00:45:56,754 He had a walkie-talkie? 756 00:45:56,788 --> 00:45:58,341 Yeah, a walkie-talkie. 757 00:45:58,376 --> 00:46:01,759 Yeah, I think it was a Garmin Rino is what they call it. 758 00:46:01,793 --> 00:46:05,797 And on that Rino, there's an LED screen 759 00:46:05,832 --> 00:46:09,525 and it also gives the GPS position of the person that's talking. 760 00:46:10,733 --> 00:46:13,391 As well as their position. You know, back and forth. 761 00:46:14,288 --> 00:46:16,808 And when they did that, 762 00:46:16,843 --> 00:46:22,262 the GPS position showed him on the very edge of the screen 763 00:46:22,296 --> 00:46:26,369 over in this area here, on the main Sweetgrass trail. 764 00:46:26,404 --> 00:46:28,716 DAVID: Okay, so that's confusing. 765 00:46:28,751 --> 00:46:30,926 When he gets to the fork right here... 766 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,479 -ALAN: This fork? -DAVID: Yeah. 767 00:46:32,513 --> 00:46:35,551 How evident is it that there's a fork in that trail to the lake? 768 00:46:35,585 --> 00:46:36,690 Very. 769 00:46:36,724 --> 00:46:38,278 So, it's real obvious. 770 00:46:38,312 --> 00:46:40,107 It's very obvious. 771 00:46:40,142 --> 00:46:43,455 DAVID: So, at this point, where he's down the trail over here, 772 00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:44,974 he's next to a creek, right? 773 00:46:45,009 --> 00:46:46,286 Correct. 774 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,358 And the creek, everyone knows, runs one direction. 775 00:46:49,392 --> 00:46:50,359 Correct. 776 00:46:50,393 --> 00:46:53,465 So, for him to get disoriented right here, 777 00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:55,882 and not know which direction he was going on the trail 778 00:46:55,916 --> 00:46:57,021 doesn't make any sense. 779 00:46:57,055 --> 00:46:58,574 No. 780 00:46:58,608 --> 00:47:01,335 DAVID: At what point do they realize that he's missing? 781 00:47:01,370 --> 00:47:03,682 ALAN: The next day actually. 782 00:47:03,717 --> 00:47:04,856 DAVID: Okay. 783 00:47:04,891 --> 00:47:07,479 ALAN: And they waited for him for a day 784 00:47:07,514 --> 00:47:09,550 and then looked for him for a day. 785 00:47:09,585 --> 00:47:12,657 And that's when the storm starts. 786 00:47:12,691 --> 00:47:16,764 And the storm is coming in from this way. 787 00:47:16,799 --> 00:47:17,835 DAVID: Gotcha. 788 00:47:17,869 --> 00:47:19,526 How much did it snow? 789 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,564 ALAN: Between 18 to 24 inches within 12 hours. 790 00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:27,672 The temperature was in the 40s and 50s 791 00:47:27,706 --> 00:47:30,709 and then, all of a sudden, it was in the teens. 792 00:47:30,744 --> 00:47:33,402 And the snowstorm kinda forced them out. 793 00:47:34,644 --> 00:47:38,856 We received a call from one of the individuals 794 00:47:38,890 --> 00:47:39,926 that was hunting with him, 795 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,275 saying that he was overdue and hadn't come out. 796 00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:47,347 You know, they hadn't seen him for a couple of days. 797 00:47:47,381 --> 00:47:49,418 When they told me Campfire Lake, I said, 798 00:47:49,452 --> 00:47:51,730 "Well, you need to get hold of Park County." 799 00:47:52,973 --> 00:47:55,700 DAVID: Park County goes out, they start a search. 800 00:47:55,734 --> 00:47:58,151 ALAN: They start a search in their county 801 00:47:58,185 --> 00:48:04,053 and we go ahead in kind of a military blocking maneuver. 802 00:48:04,088 --> 00:48:08,747 You know, there's still 16 inches of snow practically melting. 803 00:48:08,782 --> 00:48:11,026 The temperature is getting better. It's warming up. 804 00:48:12,924 --> 00:48:14,995 We don't find anything. 805 00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:16,203 There's a key point. 806 00:48:16,238 --> 00:48:19,275 So, as you guys were coming up the trail, 807 00:48:19,310 --> 00:48:21,415 you're not seeing any footprints going out? 808 00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:22,554 -Negative. -DAVID: Right. 809 00:48:22,589 --> 00:48:24,280 We're here from Sweetgrass County. 810 00:48:24,315 --> 00:48:26,696 MAN: Alan. Good to see you. 811 00:48:26,731 --> 00:48:31,080 MARK: I believe it was the second day that I was working there. 812 00:48:31,115 --> 00:48:33,462 I had landed with the deputy 813 00:48:33,496 --> 00:48:37,742 after dropping off two separate dog teams. 814 00:48:37,776 --> 00:48:40,193 'Cause that terrain is so steep and so deep, 815 00:48:40,227 --> 00:48:42,436 and very wild country. 816 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,093 Started up high, 817 00:48:44,128 --> 00:48:45,784 and they were going to work the dog teams coming down, 818 00:48:45,819 --> 00:48:51,445 and there was a girl with her German shepherd, 819 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,897 I believe that found a pair of boots. 820 00:48:54,932 --> 00:48:57,831 [WOMAN TALKING ON THE RADIO] 821 00:49:01,869 --> 00:49:04,320 [MAN TALKING ON THE RADIO] 822 00:49:08,842 --> 00:49:10,464 MAN 2: Roger. 823 00:49:10,499 --> 00:49:14,330 This will be the road that Aaron and his two buddies 824 00:49:14,365 --> 00:49:17,851 drove in on to pick up the horse trailer. 825 00:49:17,885 --> 00:49:21,993 I know they had two horses and a mule. 826 00:49:28,793 --> 00:49:32,383 So, you guys, the horse wreck happened right up ahead of us. 827 00:49:33,832 --> 00:49:35,973 So, the trailer is over here on the right side. 828 00:49:36,007 --> 00:49:37,077 On the right. 829 00:49:37,112 --> 00:49:39,183 Stays on this bench here for a while. 830 00:49:39,217 --> 00:49:42,117 You get glimpses of it whenever we go through a meadow. 831 00:49:48,054 --> 00:49:49,814 We're going to make a right-handed turn, fellas. 832 00:49:49,848 --> 00:49:51,712 And we're going to follow the rest of the trail here. 833 00:49:51,747 --> 00:49:53,852 You can see where the trail is right in front of you. 834 00:49:54,232 --> 00:49:55,475 The zig-zag. 835 00:49:56,372 --> 00:49:58,064 You're going to reveal into Campfire 836 00:49:58,098 --> 00:50:01,550 as soon as you look straight out on the outside of this cliff. 837 00:50:03,517 --> 00:50:06,934 Their base camp. They're basing out of Campfire Lake. 838 00:50:12,078 --> 00:50:14,632 So, when you come up here, you sit up here in you spot 839 00:50:14,666 --> 00:50:16,841 and that's what they were doing. That spot... 840 00:50:16,875 --> 00:50:18,877 We saw elk all the time over here. 841 00:50:18,912 --> 00:50:20,051 So, this is loaded. 842 00:50:23,917 --> 00:50:25,712 So, we'll go down to the bottom. 843 00:50:27,714 --> 00:50:30,889 You can see this kind of tough country 844 00:50:30,924 --> 00:50:33,202 even on the trail when you kind of move through. 845 00:50:33,237 --> 00:50:36,412 -It is. - It's a work out. 846 00:50:36,447 --> 00:50:40,037 Going up and down these trails is one heck of a work out. 847 00:50:41,935 --> 00:50:44,696 -You could see the trail easily. -Yeah. 848 00:50:45,352 --> 00:50:46,698 And the trail is like this 849 00:50:46,733 --> 00:50:50,737 all the way from Campfire over to Sweetgrass. 850 00:50:54,568 --> 00:50:58,089 This is the tee in the trail. 851 00:50:58,124 --> 00:51:00,574 Trail goes through those rocks right there. 852 00:51:02,990 --> 00:51:05,096 There was fresh snow on the ground. 853 00:51:06,546 --> 00:51:09,445 It could have been easy to miss that turn. 854 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,276 He left before it started to snow, though. 855 00:51:12,310 --> 00:51:13,587 -Oh, did he? - Yeah. 856 00:51:13,622 --> 00:51:16,383 -Gotcha. -I think it was bare ground. 857 00:51:16,418 --> 00:51:18,282 When he took off, 858 00:51:18,316 --> 00:51:22,251 it was actually pretty warm out. 859 00:51:22,286 --> 00:51:24,805 Into the 50s at least. 860 00:51:26,773 --> 00:51:28,775 They were right at the county line. 861 00:51:28,809 --> 00:51:32,606 We're coming into Sweetgrass County and leaving Park County. 862 00:51:35,954 --> 00:51:37,956 A lot of boulder fields through here. 863 00:51:37,991 --> 00:51:39,613 It is, yeah. 864 00:51:39,648 --> 00:51:42,582 And these are all loose. These aren't set. 865 00:51:42,616 --> 00:51:44,411 They're all loose. 866 00:51:44,446 --> 00:51:46,448 You take one step forward 867 00:51:46,482 --> 00:51:49,796 and you slide two steps back on each foot. 868 00:51:50,348 --> 00:51:53,006 So, in our search area, 869 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,974 that's what restricted our search area so much. 870 00:51:56,458 --> 00:51:57,769 It was so small, 871 00:51:57,804 --> 00:52:01,601 because you can't get off of the trail very far. 872 00:52:01,635 --> 00:52:04,155 You know, you start going across it's sharp. 873 00:52:04,190 --> 00:52:07,227 If you don't have a pair of hard sole boots, 874 00:52:07,262 --> 00:52:08,608 they're going to eat your feet. 875 00:52:09,471 --> 00:52:11,921 Even into the timber 876 00:52:11,956 --> 00:52:14,545 is loose rock all over the place. 877 00:52:16,167 --> 00:52:20,137 Immediately from the boots, there is a scree pile. 878 00:52:20,171 --> 00:52:24,141 If he was barefoot, he would have torn up his feet immediately. 879 00:52:26,695 --> 00:52:28,628 Not to the falls, no. 880 00:52:28,662 --> 00:52:30,595 Well, we have to turn around to see him better. 881 00:52:30,630 --> 00:52:33,288 Yeah, this is the bench of other falls 882 00:52:33,322 --> 00:52:35,497 where the boots were found. 883 00:52:40,467 --> 00:52:43,436 And this bench is nice and subtle. 884 00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:45,196 It's kinda protected. 885 00:52:45,231 --> 00:52:46,473 A walk that way into the... 886 00:52:46,508 --> 00:52:48,993 And you're limited where you can go. 887 00:52:51,996 --> 00:52:53,066 Right there. 888 00:52:54,550 --> 00:52:57,001 -Yeah, he was right over there. -Those are trees. 889 00:52:57,035 --> 00:52:58,313 Those trees, yeah. 890 00:52:59,037 --> 00:53:00,315 Right in here. 891 00:53:01,868 --> 00:53:05,043 Close to the creek, there are ways down 892 00:53:05,078 --> 00:53:07,908 into the creek that you can do it. 893 00:53:09,393 --> 00:53:11,326 Especially underneath the falls here. 894 00:53:13,224 --> 00:53:16,607 You can get into the... Into this creek. 895 00:53:18,264 --> 00:53:22,854 Now, when we searched, we searched this entire flat. 896 00:53:22,889 --> 00:53:24,235 After we found the boots, 897 00:53:24,270 --> 00:53:28,205 we ticked through this like nobody's business. 898 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:29,654 I had a bunch of people 899 00:53:29,689 --> 00:53:32,588 and they... three searches 900 00:53:32,623 --> 00:53:34,072 is what we did. 901 00:53:38,387 --> 00:53:42,184 ALAN: So, we had evidence here. 902 00:53:42,219 --> 00:53:46,533 At the falls, we find... See, there's the pair of boots, 903 00:53:46,568 --> 00:53:51,124 I mean, set purposely side by side. 904 00:53:51,158 --> 00:53:54,886 ALAN: Next to that is basically a water bladder, 905 00:53:54,921 --> 00:53:58,925 like a Camelbak water bladder. 906 00:54:00,098 --> 00:54:03,136 Just off the trail, there is a fire pit. 907 00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:08,417 In that fire pit was a partially burnt cigarette container 908 00:54:08,452 --> 00:54:11,869 that we knew was Aaron's brand. 909 00:54:11,903 --> 00:54:14,630 Also in the immediate vicinity, 910 00:54:14,665 --> 00:54:19,635 a fire bundle partially burnt. 911 00:54:21,396 --> 00:54:24,088 Alongside that, 912 00:54:24,122 --> 00:54:27,919 in the fire pit were two waist belts 913 00:54:28,610 --> 00:54:30,577 from a backpack. 914 00:54:30,612 --> 00:54:33,408 DAVID: Straps that come around the back 915 00:54:33,442 --> 00:54:34,788 -and sits on your hips. -Correct. 916 00:54:34,823 --> 00:54:35,962 Is that what we're talking about? 917 00:54:35,996 --> 00:54:37,481 That's what we're talking about. Correct. 918 00:54:37,515 --> 00:54:39,310 DAVID: Why would anybody take those off? 919 00:54:39,345 --> 00:54:41,036 ALAN: Cut 'em off, 920 00:54:41,070 --> 00:54:43,763 there's a little bit of insulation in there because they're padded. 921 00:54:43,797 --> 00:54:45,420 And you can slip your hand in there 922 00:54:45,454 --> 00:54:47,111 for a little bit of protection. 923 00:54:47,145 --> 00:54:48,008 Right. 924 00:54:48,043 --> 00:54:49,700 That's the first thing we thought of. 925 00:54:50,804 --> 00:54:55,084 That's about the only thing that made any sense. 926 00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:58,743 Why a person would take that waist belt off. 927 00:54:58,778 --> 00:55:01,401 DAVID: That must have been a little confusing to the searchers. 928 00:55:01,436 --> 00:55:02,644 ALAN: Absolutely. 929 00:55:03,645 --> 00:55:05,060 Plus... 930 00:55:06,372 --> 00:55:09,444 I throw another little bit of rankle in there, 931 00:55:09,478 --> 00:55:13,137 they were up in the same spot 932 00:55:13,171 --> 00:55:16,347 a day or two days before and never saw it. 933 00:55:16,382 --> 00:55:17,452 Never saw those items. 934 00:55:17,486 --> 00:55:19,454 Never came across those items. 935 00:55:19,488 --> 00:55:20,420 Same spot? 936 00:55:20,455 --> 00:55:22,698 Same people, same spot. 937 00:55:22,733 --> 00:55:25,632 And they said that they never saw those boots. 938 00:55:25,667 --> 00:55:27,047 They never saw any of that. 939 00:55:27,634 --> 00:55:28,911 How is that possible? 940 00:55:30,672 --> 00:55:31,914 I don't know. 941 00:55:34,261 --> 00:55:36,333 These are seasoned guys. 942 00:55:36,367 --> 00:55:38,127 They do good at their jobs. 943 00:55:38,162 --> 00:55:41,165 They're SARTECH II rated by NASAR. 944 00:55:41,199 --> 00:55:42,856 They know what the heck they're doing. 945 00:55:45,203 --> 00:55:48,621 When they see the waist belt cut off, 946 00:55:48,655 --> 00:55:52,003 and then the items laid out. 947 00:55:53,073 --> 00:55:56,836 It's starting to look like hypothermia. 948 00:55:56,870 --> 00:56:00,184 If you look at evidence from hypothermia cases 949 00:56:00,218 --> 00:56:02,842 in the wild, 950 00:56:02,876 --> 00:56:05,189 or in remote areas, 951 00:56:05,223 --> 00:56:10,021 this is kind of the behavior that you see. 952 00:56:10,056 --> 00:56:13,059 So, I narrow my search both sides of the creek, 953 00:56:13,093 --> 00:56:17,270 all the way as far up on the slope as I can get. 954 00:56:17,304 --> 00:56:18,858 Because we didn't think 955 00:56:18,892 --> 00:56:21,654 if he was bad enough that he was leaving stuff, 956 00:56:21,688 --> 00:56:24,381 he wasn't going to get very far. 957 00:56:24,415 --> 00:56:27,867 So, somebody who is that hypothermic isn't going to go very far. 958 00:56:27,901 --> 00:56:29,938 You wouldn't think so. No. 959 00:56:29,972 --> 00:56:32,216 So, the area East of the falls. 960 00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:34,287 You guys covered that pretty thick. 961 00:56:34,321 --> 00:56:35,702 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 962 00:56:35,737 --> 00:56:38,118 We turned over everything. 963 00:56:38,153 --> 00:56:39,568 And you're a former K-9 handler. 964 00:56:39,603 --> 00:56:40,707 Correct. 965 00:56:40,742 --> 00:56:42,468 DAVID: So, did the dogs hit on anything? 966 00:56:43,883 --> 00:56:45,402 -ALAN: No. -DAVID: Nothing? 967 00:56:45,436 --> 00:56:46,437 ALAN: Nothing. 968 00:57:10,496 --> 00:57:14,707 CHARLIE: Well, every spring we maintain our fences, 969 00:57:14,741 --> 00:57:17,123 you know, so we can graze our cattle the way we want to. 970 00:57:17,157 --> 00:57:18,573 So, it's just an annual spring thing. 971 00:57:18,607 --> 00:57:22,093 And my father-in-law was here. He just happened to be with me. 972 00:57:23,163 --> 00:57:26,477 And just, you can see the ridge up there, 973 00:57:26,512 --> 00:57:29,722 where a section of fence runs between us and our neighbors 974 00:57:29,756 --> 00:57:32,414 and just annual routine 975 00:57:32,449 --> 00:57:36,901 and I was going over the fence and he was kind of hiking around and... 976 00:57:36,936 --> 00:57:40,836 REBECCA: He looked down and he saw an orange vest. 977 00:57:40,871 --> 00:57:42,562 So, he went down just to go pick it up. 978 00:57:42,597 --> 00:57:46,739 And then, that's when he proceeded to find the backpack and everything else. 979 00:57:46,773 --> 00:57:49,017 So in his mind, he thought, 980 00:57:49,051 --> 00:57:51,468 "Well, what hunter lost his stuff up here?" 981 00:57:53,504 --> 00:57:56,369 CHARLIE: And he comes down off of there just like... 982 00:57:56,403 --> 00:57:58,129 Grinning from ear to ear, just... 983 00:57:58,164 --> 00:58:00,960 "Hey, was there a hunter lost up here?" 984 00:58:00,994 --> 00:58:04,032 I'm like, "Yeah, actually there was." 985 00:58:04,066 --> 00:58:08,830 "Oh, cool! His license is still in here in his pack." 986 00:58:08,864 --> 00:58:12,316 "Okay." So, I look at it and it was Aaron Hedges'. 987 00:58:12,350 --> 00:58:14,042 DAVID: Did you recognize the name? 988 00:58:14,076 --> 00:58:15,630 Oh, yeah. I recognized the name. 989 00:58:15,664 --> 00:58:18,805 I mean, there were helicopters flying way up the valley up there 990 00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,188 and a big searching that was in the local press. 991 00:58:22,222 --> 00:58:25,847 DAVID: And inside was there any food? 992 00:58:25,881 --> 00:58:27,883 CHARLIE: There were snack bars. 993 00:58:27,918 --> 00:58:29,540 DAVID: There was nutrition inside? 994 00:58:29,575 --> 00:58:30,990 BOTH: Yes. 995 00:58:31,024 --> 00:58:32,647 Correct me if I'm wrong, 996 00:58:32,681 --> 00:58:35,408 but the backpack, I understand, was actually leaning against a tree. 997 00:58:35,442 --> 00:58:36,547 Correct. 998 00:58:36,582 --> 00:58:38,618 So, somebody just didn't strip it off and drop it. 999 00:58:38,653 --> 00:58:39,550 No. 1000 00:58:39,585 --> 00:58:41,276 They put it there with intent. 1001 00:58:41,310 --> 00:58:43,174 ALAN: They put it there with intent. They put it there purposely 1002 00:58:43,209 --> 00:58:44,969 and it was protected. 1003 00:58:45,004 --> 00:58:46,902 DAVID: Okay, and what was in the backpack? 1004 00:58:46,937 --> 00:58:48,559 I understand you found a gun. 1005 00:58:48,594 --> 00:58:49,802 ALAN: Correct. 1006 00:58:49,836 --> 00:58:52,183 A .44 Ruger Redhawk I believe it was. 1007 00:58:52,218 --> 00:58:54,013 -DAVID: Find a bow? -ALAN: Yes. 1008 00:58:54,047 --> 00:58:56,325 It was alongside the backpack evidently. 1009 00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,432 In our search, another interesting point, I guess... 1010 00:59:01,192 --> 00:59:03,678 When we searched this area, 1011 00:59:04,748 --> 00:59:07,820 here, at the head of this ridge, 1012 00:59:07,854 --> 00:59:10,754 where it starts to drop off, 1013 00:59:10,788 --> 00:59:13,135 was a cup. A Thermos cup. 1014 00:59:13,895 --> 00:59:15,241 And beside that cup 1015 00:59:15,275 --> 00:59:19,072 was an open energy drink. 1016 00:59:19,763 --> 00:59:22,213 Somebody had, you know, 1017 00:59:22,248 --> 00:59:27,425 had basically sat down and drank a cup of tea. 1018 00:59:30,049 --> 00:59:31,395 That's an odd sight. 1019 00:59:31,429 --> 00:59:32,569 Uh-huh. 1020 00:59:32,603 --> 00:59:34,018 Yeah, absolutely. 1021 00:59:34,053 --> 00:59:35,399 What do you think when you see that? 1022 00:59:37,401 --> 00:59:39,748 "What the hell is this guy doing?" 1023 00:59:39,783 --> 00:59:46,237 And from this point, you could see the Rein buildings. 1024 00:59:46,272 --> 00:59:47,445 DAVID: From where the cup is? 1025 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,588 Yes, absolutely. I mean, they're right there. 1026 00:59:51,622 --> 00:59:53,728 They're right down there. 1027 00:59:53,762 --> 00:59:55,212 DAVID: And could you see a road? 1028 00:59:55,246 --> 00:59:56,109 Yes. 1029 00:59:56,834 --> 00:59:58,249 Does that make any sense to you? 1030 00:59:58,284 --> 01:00:01,598 No, it doesn't, because... 1031 01:00:01,632 --> 01:00:04,393 Well, I don't know if it makes sense to me or not, 1032 01:00:04,428 --> 01:00:05,567 but it is funny. 1033 01:00:05,602 --> 01:00:08,294 DAVID: So, you don't find a body after your search. 1034 01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:09,744 No. 1035 01:00:09,778 --> 01:00:12,125 No, we couldn't cover a large area 1036 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,645 and we didn't have a lot of time to be able to do that. 1037 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,474 There wasn't a life or death situation at this point? 1038 01:00:16,509 --> 01:00:19,719 No, not at that point. It was evidence recovery. 1039 01:00:19,754 --> 01:00:23,309 So, how far does it go on for the next thing to happen? 1040 01:00:23,861 --> 01:00:25,207 Another year. 1041 01:00:27,175 --> 01:00:29,246 Off of the Sweetgrass ranch, 1042 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,352 which is a dude ranch, they have a dude ride. 1043 01:00:32,387 --> 01:00:35,148 A string of dudes who were guests at the ranch 1044 01:00:35,183 --> 01:00:37,116 were on this ride. 1045 01:00:37,150 --> 01:00:41,499 And as they come up the hill, 1046 01:00:41,534 --> 01:00:43,467 on a little bench, 1047 01:00:43,501 --> 01:00:46,125 one of the guests looks over and goes, 1048 01:00:46,159 --> 01:00:48,679 "Hey, there's a skull over there." 1049 01:00:48,714 --> 01:00:52,407 And lo and behold, there's a human skull underneath a tree. 1050 01:00:54,340 --> 01:00:58,516 I mean, just pretty as a picture, bright as a penny, 1051 01:00:58,551 --> 01:00:59,690 underneath a dead tree. 1052 01:01:00,795 --> 01:01:02,037 Did you go back out? 1053 01:01:02,072 --> 01:01:03,142 Sure did. 1054 01:01:03,176 --> 01:01:04,868 And what did you find? 1055 01:01:04,902 --> 01:01:09,769 We find the skulls and the remains 1056 01:01:09,804 --> 01:01:11,391 and where we find that... 1057 01:01:12,013 --> 01:01:14,394 is right here. 1058 01:01:15,879 --> 01:01:18,882 We did find the pelvis and one femur 1059 01:01:18,916 --> 01:01:22,299 on a cow trail, partially buried. 1060 01:01:22,333 --> 01:01:24,819 I did find Aaron's cell phone. 1061 01:01:24,853 --> 01:01:29,824 A jacket, like what you're wearing, a thin jacket. 1062 01:01:29,858 --> 01:01:30,997 Any pants? 1063 01:01:31,032 --> 01:01:32,516 Pants? No. 1064 01:01:32,550 --> 01:01:34,242 I don't believe we found any pants. 1065 01:01:34,276 --> 01:01:35,726 -I can't remember. -Socks? 1066 01:01:37,624 --> 01:01:40,593 No, because we didn't find any feet. 1067 01:01:41,421 --> 01:01:42,526 No feet? 1068 01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:43,803 Right. 1069 01:01:43,838 --> 01:01:46,495 Did any of his bones appear to be broken like his femurs? 1070 01:01:46,530 --> 01:01:47,704 No. 1071 01:01:47,738 --> 01:01:50,707 Did the coroner come up with any cause of death? 1072 01:01:51,569 --> 01:01:52,605 No. 1073 01:02:00,958 --> 01:02:02,926 He could have seen the creek? 1074 01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,687 CHARLIE: Yes, he could have seen the creek. 1075 01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:07,689 So, there he had water. 1076 01:02:07,724 --> 01:02:10,278 I understand that there was also a lighter in his backpack? 1077 01:02:10,312 --> 01:02:12,176 I think so, yeah, probably. 1078 01:02:12,211 --> 01:02:13,730 So, he could have made fire. 1079 01:02:15,145 --> 01:02:16,663 He had a gun, he could have signaled help. 1080 01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:19,597 He had food, e could have eaten. 1081 01:02:20,253 --> 01:02:21,427 DAVID: Well, you're a nurse. 1082 01:02:21,461 --> 01:02:22,704 Yes. 1083 01:02:22,739 --> 01:02:25,742 So, you understand hypothermia and how it affects the body. 1084 01:02:26,570 --> 01:02:27,951 That distance... 1085 01:02:27,985 --> 01:02:29,780 Somebody said, "Well, he was hypothermic 1086 01:02:29,815 --> 01:02:32,300 way back at the falls. That's why he took his boots off." 1087 01:02:32,334 --> 01:02:34,543 Okay, great, we're hypothermic then. 1088 01:02:34,578 --> 01:02:36,960 How in the heck are you going to make it all that distance? 1089 01:02:36,994 --> 01:02:38,582 You know, that's the other thing. 1090 01:02:38,616 --> 01:02:41,619 If he was hypothermic, why didn't he drop his bow? 1091 01:02:43,104 --> 01:02:44,415 Why was he still packing it? 1092 01:02:44,450 --> 01:02:47,280 That's a heavy thing to be packing in your backpack. 1093 01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:50,628 This all doesn't add up to me. 1094 01:02:51,112 --> 01:02:52,251 Nope. 1095 01:02:52,285 --> 01:02:53,839 Does it add up to you in any way? 1096 01:02:54,978 --> 01:02:56,289 No. 1097 01:02:56,945 --> 01:02:59,983 ALAN: No. You go through 1098 01:03:00,017 --> 01:03:02,399 your lost person behavior, 1099 01:03:02,433 --> 01:03:06,644 your behavior is, exposure takes a hold of you 1100 01:03:07,473 --> 01:03:08,474 and... 1101 01:03:10,165 --> 01:03:13,203 it just... None of it makes any sense. 1102 01:03:17,794 --> 01:03:20,969 DAVID: There's two things that bothered me most about the Hedges' case. 1103 01:03:21,004 --> 01:03:22,350 First I'd like to know 1104 01:03:22,384 --> 01:03:25,146 what caused Aaron to change course so drastically? 1105 01:03:25,180 --> 01:03:27,286 Even if he had missed the turn to the cache, 1106 01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,115 he'd eventually known he had gone too far 1107 01:03:29,150 --> 01:03:32,809 merely by the fact that he's walking adjacent to the creek 1108 01:03:32,843 --> 01:03:34,293 that's flowing downhill, 1109 01:03:34,327 --> 01:03:37,296 away from the location he's supposed to be in. 1110 01:03:37,330 --> 01:03:40,506 This was an experienced hunter who hunted here often. 1111 01:03:40,540 --> 01:03:43,509 And this was a full two days before any bad weather. 1112 01:03:44,372 --> 01:03:45,718 The second major issue 1113 01:03:45,752 --> 01:03:48,307 is his body being found six miles from the falls, 1114 01:03:48,341 --> 01:03:52,345 where he apparently shed his boots under the theory of extreme hypothermia. 1115 01:03:53,174 --> 01:03:54,623 Somehow, while hypothermic, 1116 01:03:54,658 --> 01:03:56,522 he carries his bow, his backpack, 1117 01:03:56,556 --> 01:03:58,973 a jacket, his cell phone and thermos 1118 01:03:59,007 --> 01:04:02,666 six miles through a foot and a half to three feet of fresh snow 1119 01:04:02,700 --> 01:04:03,978 with no shoes. 1120 01:04:05,151 --> 01:04:07,671 Then sits on a rock overlooking safety. 1121 01:04:09,052 --> 01:04:10,501 His remains were found 11 miles 1122 01:04:10,536 --> 01:04:12,538 from the camp he was supposed to return to. 1123 01:04:14,712 --> 01:04:15,748 It's too much. 1124 01:04:16,922 --> 01:04:18,371 This is one strange case. 1125 01:04:20,857 --> 01:04:22,651 I never take those mountains for granted. 1126 01:04:22,686 --> 01:04:25,516 Every time I drive home from the East, 1127 01:04:25,551 --> 01:04:28,865 it's like, "There they are. There's our mountains." 1128 01:04:28,899 --> 01:04:30,142 It's the best place on Earth. 1129 01:04:30,176 --> 01:04:32,075 You know, it's the prettiest place on Earth. 1130 01:04:32,109 --> 01:04:33,559 We're prejudiced. 1131 01:05:19,329 --> 01:05:20,778 Where we are, here in Sonora, 1132 01:05:20,813 --> 01:05:24,403 you see the remnants of the 1800s 1133 01:05:24,437 --> 01:05:26,439 in just about every place. 1134 01:05:26,474 --> 01:05:28,579 It's an old mining town. 1135 01:05:34,861 --> 01:05:39,418 Sonora is kind of at the lower foothills of the mountain. 1136 01:05:39,452 --> 01:05:41,627 And as you head Eastbound, 1137 01:05:41,661 --> 01:05:43,974 heading up into the forest, 1138 01:05:44,009 --> 01:05:47,046 the dense, you know, wild forests 1139 01:05:47,081 --> 01:05:48,634 where there is no more cities, 1140 01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:51,602 it becomes even clearer to you 1141 01:05:51,637 --> 01:05:54,778 that this place is not like other places. 1142 01:05:54,812 --> 01:05:58,989 There is sort of a strange sense of mystery 1143 01:05:59,024 --> 01:06:00,094 that abounds. 1144 01:06:14,798 --> 01:06:16,351 My name is Giuseppe Ricapito. 1145 01:06:16,386 --> 01:06:18,698 I am a police and courts reporter 1146 01:06:18,733 --> 01:06:20,631 here at The Union Democrat newspaper 1147 01:06:20,666 --> 01:06:23,013 in Sonora, Tuolumne County, California. 1148 01:06:23,048 --> 01:06:26,637 So, in a county like this, do you have a lot of homicides? 1149 01:06:27,466 --> 01:06:29,157 Not necessarily. 1150 01:06:29,192 --> 01:06:32,091 There's been a handful, 1151 01:06:32,126 --> 01:06:33,644 maybe in the past couple of years 1152 01:06:33,679 --> 01:06:36,854 and none of them were unsolved. 1153 01:06:36,889 --> 01:06:40,444 Your county goes all the way up into the high mountain area, correct? 1154 01:06:40,479 --> 01:06:42,377 GIUSEPPE: Yeah, it spreads all the way over 1155 01:06:42,412 --> 01:06:44,655 into the Sierra Nevada mountain range 1156 01:06:44,690 --> 01:06:47,037 all the way to Sonora Pass. 1157 01:06:47,072 --> 01:06:50,834 DAVID: There's a gorgeous lookout up there. Tell us about that. 1158 01:06:50,868 --> 01:06:53,664 GIUSEPPE: If you are traveling up that corridor 1159 01:06:53,699 --> 01:06:56,736 which passes through the county, Highway 108, 1160 01:06:56,771 --> 01:07:00,016 you basically advance up a steep grade. 1161 01:07:02,915 --> 01:07:06,677 You're fascinated by, like, how lush it is, right? 1162 01:07:06,712 --> 01:07:09,232 The wildlife, the trees. 1163 01:07:09,266 --> 01:07:13,167 And as you wind up further and further up this grade, 1164 01:07:13,201 --> 01:07:16,515 you get the feeling like you've lost it, or you're lost, 1165 01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:21,002 like you're never going to find it, because it's a single turn off, 1166 01:07:21,037 --> 01:07:23,936 a single sign pointing you to the left. 1167 01:07:27,733 --> 01:07:29,045 It's called Donnell Vista. 1168 01:07:29,079 --> 01:07:32,496 And, it's sort of, I've been thinking about it. 1169 01:07:32,531 --> 01:07:34,567 It's, like, etched into the mountain side. 1170 01:07:38,192 --> 01:07:40,608 If you're standing there at the lookout point, right, 1171 01:07:40,642 --> 01:07:42,713 and you're overlooking that area, 1172 01:07:42,748 --> 01:07:46,890 you're seeing these crags of rock jutting out 1173 01:07:46,924 --> 01:07:51,377 and I couldn't even tell you how far 1174 01:07:51,412 --> 01:07:54,622 the blips of a river far down below. 1175 01:07:56,658 --> 01:07:58,798 As you look over, you say to yourself, 1176 01:07:58,833 --> 01:08:01,422 "If you fall down here, you're not going to survive." 1177 01:08:15,608 --> 01:08:17,231 We just left the vista. 1178 01:08:17,265 --> 01:08:18,818 Just a quarter mile East, 1179 01:08:18,853 --> 01:08:22,098 Breck Phelps' vehicle was found 1180 01:08:22,132 --> 01:08:23,168 at this turnout. 1181 01:08:24,790 --> 01:08:28,380 Under the small, old dirt road, 1182 01:08:28,414 --> 01:08:30,658 that eventually leads and turns into a trail 1183 01:08:30,692 --> 01:08:32,522 down by the Stanislaus river. 1184 01:08:47,157 --> 01:08:50,160 DAVID: His pastor found the vehicle here 1185 01:08:50,195 --> 01:08:53,612 because he knew Breck had fished here in the past. 1186 01:08:53,646 --> 01:08:55,786 And that's where the search started. 1187 01:08:55,821 --> 01:08:59,273 They brought in Cobra helicopters, four dog teams. 1188 01:08:59,307 --> 01:09:00,653 There was even some bad weather 1189 01:09:00,688 --> 01:09:03,139 that hindered the search for a short period of time. 1190 01:09:04,864 --> 01:09:09,179 They found nothing after many days of looking for the man. 1191 01:09:09,214 --> 01:09:10,525 He was never found. 1192 01:09:14,046 --> 01:09:18,119 The strangest thing about Breck Phelps' disappearance 1193 01:09:18,154 --> 01:09:21,640 was that it seemed to align or parallel itself 1194 01:09:21,674 --> 01:09:23,504 to the previous disappearances 1195 01:09:23,538 --> 01:09:25,816 that had happened in that same region. 1196 01:09:25,851 --> 01:09:28,681 Patti Sue Tolhurst and Nita Mayo 1197 01:09:28,716 --> 01:09:33,030 both commonly like Breck Phelps, left their car, 1198 01:09:33,065 --> 01:09:35,688 within a quarter mile of that vista point. 1199 01:09:41,073 --> 01:09:44,352 DAVID: The true oddity of this location 1200 01:09:44,387 --> 01:09:46,354 is that we have three people 1201 01:09:46,389 --> 01:09:48,839 in eleven years that have disappeared 1202 01:09:48,874 --> 01:09:51,048 from essentially one spot. 1203 01:09:51,773 --> 01:09:54,190 That is very odd. 1204 01:09:54,224 --> 01:09:58,504 GIUSEPPE: It's easy to say these people slipped on a rock 1205 01:09:58,539 --> 01:10:01,162 and they fell into the river canyon, right? 1206 01:10:01,197 --> 01:10:04,061 But then, why haven't we found remains? 1207 01:10:05,339 --> 01:10:08,204 DAVID: When you're walking on the paved path, 1208 01:10:08,238 --> 01:10:11,345 you've got boulders all around you. 1209 01:10:11,379 --> 01:10:15,211 And it's something that I've written about hundreds of times. 1210 01:10:15,245 --> 01:10:16,522 You just can't ignore it. 1211 01:10:16,557 --> 01:10:18,869 And here, it raises its face again 1212 01:10:18,904 --> 01:10:21,907 right amongst a cluster of missing people. 1213 01:10:39,821 --> 01:10:43,100 DAVID: Did you ask the Sheriff what their feelings were? 1214 01:10:44,895 --> 01:10:47,139 The Sheriff's Office doesn't like to speculate. 1215 01:10:47,173 --> 01:10:50,970 The Sheriff's Office is a real cut and dry, 1216 01:10:51,005 --> 01:10:54,388 black and white, we found him, or we didn't, 1217 01:10:54,422 --> 01:10:56,804 this case is open until it's closed. 1218 01:10:56,838 --> 01:10:59,945 The one thing that I wanted to bring up is, in April, 1219 01:10:59,979 --> 01:11:02,603 before the disappearance of Breck Phelps. 1220 01:11:02,637 --> 01:11:05,744 In April 2016, they did find human remains 1221 01:11:05,778 --> 01:11:07,918 over in that area. 1222 01:11:07,953 --> 01:11:11,612 They didn't match Patti Sue Tolhurst, 1223 01:11:11,646 --> 01:11:12,958 not did they match Nita Mayo. 1224 01:11:12,992 --> 01:11:14,994 They tested the dental records. 1225 01:11:15,029 --> 01:11:17,894 It was just like, what are these? 1226 01:11:17,928 --> 01:11:20,310 And this was before the disappearance of Breck Phelps. 1227 01:11:20,345 --> 01:11:21,415 Did they ever ID the remains? 1228 01:11:21,449 --> 01:11:22,761 No. 1229 01:11:22,795 --> 01:11:24,003 So, we don't know who it was? 1230 01:11:24,038 --> 01:11:25,626 No. 1231 01:11:25,660 --> 01:11:28,111 People aren't talking about this story anymore. 1232 01:11:28,145 --> 01:11:32,978 The news cycle being very, you know, I'm doing two stories a day! 1233 01:11:33,012 --> 01:11:35,118 But if it does happen again, 1234 01:11:35,152 --> 01:11:37,741 people are going to be reminded of these past stories 1235 01:11:37,776 --> 01:11:39,950 and it's going to only increase speculation 1236 01:11:39,985 --> 01:11:44,127 and increase the sense of concern. 1237 01:11:44,161 --> 01:11:47,958 Now, if you just step out from this area a little further, 1238 01:11:47,993 --> 01:11:51,617 there's also a larger cluster 1239 01:11:51,652 --> 01:11:53,136 in geographical area 1240 01:11:53,170 --> 01:11:55,518 where there's three people missing 1241 01:11:55,552 --> 01:11:57,934 so close to Yosemite National Park 1242 01:11:57,968 --> 01:12:01,040 and the biggest cluster of missing people in the world. 1243 01:12:02,214 --> 01:12:05,010 I don't know why, I don't know where, 1244 01:12:05,493 --> 01:12:06,632 I don't know how, 1245 01:12:06,667 --> 01:12:10,395 but I don't think it's a coincidence. 1246 01:12:12,397 --> 01:12:13,674 Now, within this region, 1247 01:12:13,708 --> 01:12:16,677 there's a hunting camp dating back to the 1950s. 1248 01:12:16,711 --> 01:12:18,161 Over the years, 1249 01:12:18,195 --> 01:12:20,508 the hunters have experienced something highly unusual. 1250 01:12:20,543 --> 01:12:24,270 And by proximity alone, this is worth investigating. 1251 01:12:37,594 --> 01:12:40,563 And just so people can get some idea, 1252 01:12:40,597 --> 01:12:42,668 we're not that far outside Yosemite. 1253 01:12:42,703 --> 01:12:44,049 MOREHEAD: We're not far at all. 1254 01:12:44,083 --> 01:12:46,741 I tell people we're in between Yosemite and Tahoe. 1255 01:12:47,432 --> 01:12:48,847 Yeah, that's where we are. 1256 01:12:48,881 --> 01:12:51,021 We're in a 6000 feet elevation, 1257 01:12:51,056 --> 01:12:53,369 you're hiking close to 10000 feet 1258 01:12:53,403 --> 01:12:55,509 before you start dropping back, you know, up and down. 1259 01:12:57,407 --> 01:13:00,376 The whole topography up there changes every year, 1260 01:13:00,410 --> 01:13:02,205 you don't know what to expect. 1261 01:13:02,239 --> 01:13:04,207 You don't know what... across the trail 1262 01:13:04,241 --> 01:13:05,588 that you have to work your way around. 1263 01:13:05,622 --> 01:13:09,385 You really need to know which trails to get here. 1264 01:13:09,419 --> 01:13:12,698 And if you don't know where it's at, you'll never find it. 1265 01:13:12,733 --> 01:13:14,113 It's just one of those places. 1266 01:13:23,122 --> 01:13:25,918 DAVID: What year did the Sierra Camp start? 1267 01:13:27,230 --> 01:13:29,681 MOREHEAD: The camp's been here since the 50s. 1268 01:13:29,715 --> 01:13:32,166 I didn't start coming up till 1971. 1269 01:13:35,065 --> 01:13:37,309 DAVID: And do you know what brought 'em to this spot? 1270 01:13:39,138 --> 01:13:40,899 MOREHEAD: This is one of those spots that 1271 01:13:40,933 --> 01:13:43,419 Warren used to say this is as close to heaven as you think you'll ever get. 1272 01:13:48,941 --> 01:13:50,909 It's so remote. 1273 01:13:50,943 --> 01:13:54,084 The deer are plentiful. There's a lot of bear up here. 1274 01:13:54,119 --> 01:13:57,018 It's pristine, a lot of granite. 1275 01:13:58,261 --> 01:14:00,056 Fresh water coming right out of the ground, 1276 01:14:00,090 --> 01:14:01,954 especially where the spring starts. 1277 01:14:01,989 --> 01:14:05,613 There's a lot of rivers and it's just a gorgeous place to be in. 1278 01:14:10,618 --> 01:14:12,586 We're a very sober cap. 1279 01:14:12,620 --> 01:14:14,311 A very strict camp. 1280 01:14:14,346 --> 01:14:17,763 We don't unload before you came into camp. 1281 01:14:17,798 --> 01:14:19,178 No alcohol in here. 1282 01:14:19,213 --> 01:14:22,250 It was really a quite disciplined camp. 1283 01:14:22,285 --> 01:14:25,012 All the guys were professional people, 1284 01:14:25,046 --> 01:14:27,566 so we kept going on up here. 1285 01:14:27,601 --> 01:14:28,774 What it was, we don't know, 1286 01:14:28,809 --> 01:14:32,502 but had it to ourselves for a long time. 1287 01:14:32,537 --> 01:14:35,781 DAVID: And what was the average success rate for you guys coming up here? 1288 01:14:35,816 --> 01:14:38,128 MOREHEAD: The deer was 100 percent. 1289 01:14:38,163 --> 01:14:39,820 We never didn't get a deer. 1290 01:14:39,854 --> 01:14:41,994 It's that kind of a place. 1291 01:14:56,422 --> 01:14:59,874 We really didn't realize what we were dealing with. 1292 01:14:59,909 --> 01:15:01,324 We still don't know what we're dealing with, 1293 01:15:01,358 --> 01:15:03,395 but it's something very unusual. 1294 01:15:05,052 --> 01:15:08,331 Strange things happened and most of the stuff happened 1295 01:15:08,365 --> 01:15:12,093 in the evening time, just at dusk, nightime, like now. 1296 01:15:16,512 --> 01:15:19,825 The first time I ever heard anything was later in '71. 1297 01:15:19,860 --> 01:15:21,033 I came back up with the guys 1298 01:15:21,068 --> 01:15:25,141 and we were here by the stove. 1299 01:15:25,175 --> 01:15:27,005 There was a stove here then. 1300 01:15:27,039 --> 01:15:30,353 And as soon as it starts getting dark, we'd go in. 1301 01:15:30,387 --> 01:15:32,838 Sometimes we might hear a grunt or a whoop or...[MAKES A SOUND] 1302 01:15:32,873 --> 01:15:34,495 or blowing sounds like that 1303 01:15:34,530 --> 01:15:37,567 and that's when you know you want to get inside the shelter 1304 01:15:37,602 --> 01:15:39,327 because you still don't know what you're dealing with. 1305 01:15:39,362 --> 01:15:42,538 Whatever it is, it's big. Very, very big. 1306 01:15:42,572 --> 01:15:46,024 We would all go inside, close the shelter's door 1307 01:15:46,058 --> 01:15:48,820 and that's a log we would put in between these trees 1308 01:15:48,854 --> 01:15:51,029 and then strap it inside with cable. 1309 01:15:51,063 --> 01:15:54,204 And then, they would start making their sounds. 1310 01:15:54,239 --> 01:15:57,173 That was in 1971, when I first started hearing them 1311 01:15:57,207 --> 01:15:58,692 and we started recording them. 1312 01:16:04,629 --> 01:16:06,941 [STRANGE SOUNDS] 1313 01:17:34,719 --> 01:17:37,342 MOREHEAD: We were all talking about, "Maybe I can figure out a way out." 1314 01:17:37,376 --> 01:17:40,310 You're just sitting there and all of you are petrified. 1315 01:17:40,345 --> 01:17:42,761 You're just waiting for the wall to break open 1316 01:17:42,796 --> 01:17:44,487 and something to reach in there and grab you. 1317 01:17:45,177 --> 01:17:46,696 Hold you up and... 1318 01:17:46,731 --> 01:17:49,147 Waiting for the light to break in through the cracks of the walls 1319 01:17:49,181 --> 01:17:51,425 and it never happened. 1320 01:17:52,322 --> 01:17:53,703 That's the strange part, 1321 01:17:53,738 --> 01:17:56,223 'cause you hear it over there, but you don't see it over there. 1322 01:17:57,362 --> 01:17:59,675 As time went on, '72, same thing. 1323 01:17:59,709 --> 01:18:02,781 We thought something might be trying to scare us out. 1324 01:18:02,816 --> 01:18:04,990 Maybe this is their territory. 1325 01:18:05,025 --> 01:18:06,682 We don't know, we can only guess 1326 01:18:06,716 --> 01:18:09,581 why they were doing what they were doing. 1327 01:18:09,615 --> 01:18:12,688 But they were observing us, that's for sure. 1328 01:18:20,696 --> 01:18:23,595 What we do know is that their vocal range 1329 01:18:23,629 --> 01:18:26,771 is much greater than human beings. 1330 01:18:27,772 --> 01:18:31,499 Their frequencies go way above 1331 01:18:31,534 --> 01:18:34,226 and way below the abilities of humans. 1332 01:18:41,958 --> 01:18:45,410 SCOTT: I was trained in all of the deceptive practices 1333 01:18:45,444 --> 01:18:48,137 in voice and communications. 1334 01:18:49,586 --> 01:18:52,210 Besides the fact that you have the creatures 1335 01:18:52,244 --> 01:18:55,558 stepping on each other in their conversational turns, 1336 01:18:56,386 --> 01:19:00,080 you have humans, like Ron, 1337 01:19:00,114 --> 01:19:03,600 stepping on the creatures back and forth, 1338 01:19:04,429 --> 01:19:07,259 overlapping their voices on the tapes. 1339 01:19:07,915 --> 01:19:09,296 It can't be faked. 1340 01:19:10,228 --> 01:19:12,230 Not in 1974. 1341 01:19:13,334 --> 01:19:15,889 Plus, it would be extremely dangerous 1342 01:19:16,821 --> 01:19:18,408 to come up here at night, 1343 01:19:18,443 --> 01:19:21,411 into a camp full of well armed hunters. 1344 01:19:21,446 --> 01:19:24,760 They don't go to bed at night without their guns at their sides. 1345 01:19:26,071 --> 01:19:28,246 It's ridiculous to think of it. 1346 01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:29,626 You wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it 1347 01:19:29,661 --> 01:19:31,663 just to hoax a bunch of hunters up here. 1348 01:19:32,837 --> 01:19:35,736 DAVID: So, from a 100 percent factual standpoint, 1349 01:19:35,771 --> 01:19:40,845 we really don't know what's making these language sounds. 1350 01:19:41,535 --> 01:19:43,606 That's right. We don't know. 1351 01:19:50,786 --> 01:19:55,480 One time I heard a sound like a huge tuning fork 1352 01:19:55,514 --> 01:19:58,932 above us and couldn't find the source of it. 1353 01:19:58,966 --> 01:20:01,348 It was just a big sound like that. 1354 01:20:04,282 --> 01:20:06,111 Sometimes you hear a sound out here 1355 01:20:06,146 --> 01:20:09,805 and one time we thought our camp was being torn apart by something. 1356 01:20:09,839 --> 01:20:11,220 We thought the barrels 1357 01:20:11,254 --> 01:20:14,499 that we packed in was being torn up and tossed around. 1358 01:20:14,533 --> 01:20:17,191 When we came out when all the commotion and sound had stopped, 1359 01:20:17,226 --> 01:20:19,469 nothing changed. 1360 01:20:19,504 --> 01:20:21,506 Now, how do you explain that, you know? 1361 01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:24,440 One time, when I was in there, I thought I heard a car door slam. 1362 01:20:24,474 --> 01:20:26,407 Now, we're eight miles into wilderness. 1363 01:20:27,546 --> 01:20:30,273 So, aside from the sounds, 1364 01:20:30,308 --> 01:20:32,862 you also saw some things in the sky and the air? 1365 01:20:32,897 --> 01:20:35,382 MOREHEAD: Yeah, lights. 1366 01:20:36,003 --> 01:20:38,281 You know, orbs. 1367 01:20:38,316 --> 01:20:41,353 All the guys have reported orbs when I wasn't here. 1368 01:20:42,699 --> 01:20:46,186 Me and my friend Bill saw one night was a big blue ball 1369 01:20:46,220 --> 01:20:47,808 coming down from up here. 1370 01:20:47,843 --> 01:20:49,845 Slowly moving, definitely controlled. 1371 01:20:49,879 --> 01:20:52,330 It had some type of intelligence around it. 1372 01:20:52,364 --> 01:20:54,125 You know, if you were just looking up there, 1373 01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:56,023 you would think it was the moon. 1374 01:20:56,058 --> 01:20:57,749 But it was blue. 1375 01:20:57,783 --> 01:21:01,166 It was moving down. We lost it behind the trees and it went over there. 1376 01:21:01,201 --> 01:21:02,478 I don't know what to think of it. 1377 01:21:02,512 --> 01:21:04,860 You don't know what to think of any of this stuff. 1378 01:21:08,415 --> 01:21:09,554 We were in a tent 1379 01:21:09,588 --> 01:21:13,040 and it almost wasn't this dark. 1380 01:21:13,075 --> 01:21:15,318 But this thing, whatever it was 1381 01:21:15,353 --> 01:21:17,976 just comes and starts moving up behind us. 1382 01:21:18,011 --> 01:21:21,600 An elongated light, probably about three-foot long, 1383 01:21:21,635 --> 01:21:23,740 probably about that big around 1384 01:21:23,775 --> 01:21:27,675 and just a rod of light. 1385 01:21:27,710 --> 01:21:30,437 I tell people when I talk about it 1386 01:21:30,471 --> 01:21:33,647 that it's like a Star Warssaber. 1387 01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:39,239 Like, glowing, but not bright glowing. Just glowing. 1388 01:21:39,273 --> 01:21:42,035 And it just moved slowly through the trees. 1389 01:21:42,069 --> 01:21:43,588 Definitely controlled. 1390 01:21:43,622 --> 01:21:46,591 And dissipated over here. 1391 01:21:50,733 --> 01:21:52,390 DAVID: Is it embarrassing to talk about? 1392 01:21:52,838 --> 01:21:54,047 No, I don't care. 1393 01:21:55,255 --> 01:21:56,981 Now nothing bothers me. 1394 01:21:58,775 --> 01:22:00,605 DAVID: What makes you keep coming back? 1395 01:22:03,401 --> 01:22:04,920 The mystery that's still here. 1396 01:22:04,954 --> 01:22:07,405 There's still a mystery that needs to be solved 1397 01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:09,786 or understood. 1398 01:22:09,821 --> 01:22:14,895 And I'm here now because you're here. 1399 01:22:14,930 --> 01:22:17,933 I've been asked multiple times to be brought up here 1400 01:22:17,967 --> 01:22:19,106 by different people, 1401 01:22:19,141 --> 01:22:21,246 and I've turned them down 1402 01:22:21,281 --> 01:22:23,041 basically because I don't want this area, 1403 01:22:23,076 --> 01:22:24,249 such pristine areas 1404 01:22:24,284 --> 01:22:26,493 to be exposed to a bunch of researchers 1405 01:22:26,527 --> 01:22:29,599 just come up here and inundating the area. 1406 01:22:29,634 --> 01:22:33,431 And I'm also told that the hunters that still come up 1407 01:22:33,465 --> 01:22:36,089 and their offspring could still hunt the area. 1408 01:22:36,123 --> 01:22:39,437 You know, they'll all kind of keep it very private 1409 01:22:39,471 --> 01:22:41,094 as much as possible. 1410 01:22:41,128 --> 01:22:45,546 Our shelter, although, has been dismantled now, years ago. 1411 01:22:46,306 --> 01:22:47,893 It's still a place to come to. 1412 01:23:03,323 --> 01:23:07,499 Nothing surprises me. Nothing up here. 1413 01:23:07,534 --> 01:23:10,261 Why this is such a strange place I have no idea, 1414 01:23:10,295 --> 01:23:14,713 but it is a very interesting area. 1415 01:23:25,379 --> 01:23:29,625 DAVID: We spent seven days with Ron and Scott at the Sierra camp. 1416 01:23:29,659 --> 01:23:32,524 Now, although we didn't experience anything paranormal, 1417 01:23:33,180 --> 01:23:35,872 this area holds many secrets. 1418 01:23:35,907 --> 01:23:37,081 That we know for sure. 1419 01:23:46,262 --> 01:23:47,746 The last case I want to investigate 1420 01:23:47,781 --> 01:23:50,059 is even a little deeper down the rabbit hole. 1421 01:23:52,372 --> 01:23:53,718 It's not about a missing hunter, 1422 01:23:53,752 --> 01:23:55,651 but instead, about a strange experience 1423 01:23:55,685 --> 01:23:58,171 one hunter faced in Lima, Ohio. 1424 01:23:58,205 --> 01:24:01,553 It's important to know that this isn't a connection to the missing. 1425 01:24:01,588 --> 01:24:05,143 It's simply an odd event that's worth looking into. 1426 01:24:05,178 --> 01:24:09,630 And it's associated with one of the smartest people I've ever met. 1427 01:24:12,392 --> 01:24:13,876 There's a difference, I guess, 1428 01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:16,534 between being freaked out by things that you imagine 1429 01:24:16,568 --> 01:24:19,054 and being freaked out by things that you actually see. 1430 01:24:22,471 --> 01:24:24,921 JAN: This, I have to say, was the most... 1431 01:24:26,268 --> 01:24:27,717 terrifying experience, but yeah, 1432 01:24:27,752 --> 01:24:29,754 I don't know why I didn't react to it and that bothers me. 1433 01:24:43,940 --> 01:24:46,081 JAN: Hunting in Ohio is awesome. 1434 01:24:46,115 --> 01:24:49,532 We have some great, big trophy deer in Ohio 1435 01:24:49,567 --> 01:24:50,740 and we happen to have 1436 01:24:50,775 --> 01:24:53,226 some of the biggest right here on our own property. 1437 01:25:16,835 --> 01:25:18,768 It was the most beautiful night to deer hunt. 1438 01:25:18,803 --> 01:25:20,115 It was the second day of season. 1439 01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:23,256 I wanted to get into the woods to hunt. 1440 01:25:23,290 --> 01:25:24,774 I was very excited about it. 1441 01:25:29,503 --> 01:25:32,679 There was band, over at the high school. 1442 01:25:34,819 --> 01:25:37,062 By the time I got to my deer stand, I could hear 'em. 1443 01:25:40,790 --> 01:25:41,964 I was all settled in. 1444 01:25:41,998 --> 01:25:43,621 Didn't see nothing coming down the pass. 1445 01:25:43,655 --> 01:25:46,658 Trails of birds, crickets, everything was normal wood sounds. 1446 01:25:48,522 --> 01:25:49,937 When you're hunting, 1447 01:25:49,972 --> 01:25:52,457 you have two of your keenest senses. 1448 01:25:52,492 --> 01:25:54,149 It's your hearing and your eyesight. 1449 01:25:58,222 --> 01:26:01,846 All of a sudden, the woods went to this dead quiet. 1450 01:26:05,021 --> 01:26:07,541 If I had dropped a pin, I know that deer would stand. 1451 01:26:09,681 --> 01:26:10,855 They had cut off. 1452 01:26:10,889 --> 01:26:13,823 No birds, no crickets, no nothing. 1453 01:26:15,308 --> 01:26:16,619 With the sun still up, 1454 01:26:16,654 --> 01:26:18,518 we were not calling for bad weather that night. 1455 01:26:18,552 --> 01:26:19,933 It was a great night to hunt. 1456 01:26:22,522 --> 01:26:25,283 All of a sudden, I thought I had a mote in my eye. 1457 01:26:25,318 --> 01:26:27,699 I even took my finger and rubbed my eye, like, 1458 01:26:27,734 --> 01:26:29,322 when you get that fogginess over your eye, 1459 01:26:29,356 --> 01:26:30,840 like, it's just... 1460 01:26:30,875 --> 01:26:32,497 I look and I'm thinking, 1461 01:26:32,532 --> 01:26:34,568 "What is this thing in the trees?" 1462 01:26:36,087 --> 01:26:39,539 It looked like a large piece of Saran Wrap. 1463 01:26:39,573 --> 01:26:40,919 It's the only way I can describe it. 1464 01:26:40,954 --> 01:26:42,335 But this thing was very wide. 1465 01:26:42,369 --> 01:26:46,339 'Cause I'm up 14 foot and it hung quite a ways down 1466 01:26:46,373 --> 01:26:47,788 and I'm thinking... 1467 01:26:48,375 --> 01:26:49,583 "What is this thing?" 1468 01:26:50,688 --> 01:26:52,862 It didn't really scare me at that time, 1469 01:26:52,897 --> 01:26:54,933 until it moved and formed 1470 01:26:54,968 --> 01:26:57,695 the arm that reached over to the other tree. 1471 01:26:57,729 --> 01:27:00,525 It reached over about 12 to 14 foot. 1472 01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,219 And then, it all, like a blob, sucked into it. 1473 01:27:04,253 --> 01:27:05,910 And it went to a whole other tree. 1474 01:27:07,291 --> 01:27:09,258 I had this very important feeling, like, 1475 01:27:09,293 --> 01:27:11,260 something ain't right here. 1476 01:27:12,779 --> 01:27:14,712 Normally at that time, I would have probably got down 1477 01:27:14,746 --> 01:27:16,403 and stopped hunting, 1478 01:27:16,438 --> 01:27:17,784 but for some reason, I didn't. 1479 01:27:18,957 --> 01:27:20,959 DAVID: So, as you're sitting in your blind, 1480 01:27:20,994 --> 01:27:22,720 and you're looking across, 1481 01:27:22,754 --> 01:27:25,723 where did the blob come from? 1482 01:27:25,757 --> 01:27:29,692 I have no idea. It just appeared in the one tree. 1483 01:27:29,727 --> 01:27:31,763 As it was moving through the woods, 1484 01:27:31,798 --> 01:27:33,972 it went from tree to tree to tree 1485 01:27:34,007 --> 01:27:35,974 and then it just disappeared. 1486 01:27:36,630 --> 01:27:38,632 It didn't continue on. 1487 01:27:38,667 --> 01:27:40,255 So, where it went I don't know, 1488 01:27:40,289 --> 01:27:43,154 but it just... Right before my eyes, just vanished. 1489 01:27:45,190 --> 01:27:48,435 And I don't remember taking the picture, 1490 01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:52,577 but being married to who I'm married to, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, 1491 01:27:52,612 --> 01:27:56,098 he always said, "If you see anything weird, get a picture." 1492 01:27:59,619 --> 01:28:05,418 I don't recall actually when either that the sounds had returned. 1493 01:28:05,452 --> 01:28:07,834 It's just like I don't remember. 1494 01:28:10,457 --> 01:28:11,907 That's not me to this day. 1495 01:28:11,941 --> 01:28:13,736 Normally, I would probably crawl down, 1496 01:28:13,771 --> 01:28:15,428 come around the house and say, 1497 01:28:15,462 --> 01:28:17,326 "You ain't going to believe what's back there in the woods." 1498 01:28:17,361 --> 01:28:19,880 DAVID: How much longer do you think you stayed in the stand? 1499 01:28:21,330 --> 01:28:24,989 About half hour till sundown. It was time to come out. 1500 01:28:29,649 --> 01:28:31,444 The strange part about this is, 1501 01:28:31,478 --> 01:28:32,859 Jan goes off to hunt, 1502 01:28:33,998 --> 01:28:36,621 we have guests show up, we're having dinner. 1503 01:28:36,656 --> 01:28:38,002 She comes back from the hunt 1504 01:28:38,036 --> 01:28:40,315 and says nothing about what happened. It was strange. 1505 01:28:41,695 --> 01:28:44,111 The guests are about ready to leave. 1506 01:28:44,146 --> 01:28:47,149 Later on, Matthew sends me an e-mail. 1507 01:28:47,183 --> 01:28:49,151 BRUCE: There was sighting by a number of students 1508 01:28:49,185 --> 01:28:51,809 and faculty in the high school band practice, 1509 01:28:51,843 --> 01:28:53,328 just before dark. 1510 01:28:53,914 --> 01:28:55,330 I'm like, "Holy crap. 1511 01:28:55,364 --> 01:28:57,918 Maybe it has something to do with what I saw in the woods." 1512 01:28:58,643 --> 01:28:59,851 And Bruce goes, "What?" 1513 01:29:00,231 --> 01:29:01,646 And I said, 1514 01:29:01,681 --> 01:29:05,547 "I forgot to tell you what happened in those woods to me tonight." 1515 01:29:05,581 --> 01:29:07,618 And I'm reading this from Matthew 1516 01:29:07,652 --> 01:29:09,999 and then I start getting goosebumps. 1517 01:29:10,034 --> 01:29:11,829 He said this light appeared above 1518 01:29:11,863 --> 01:29:15,039 like big stadium lights in the football field. 1519 01:29:15,073 --> 01:29:16,799 Had Matthew not sent that e-mail, 1520 01:29:16,834 --> 01:29:20,251 I'm not sure if I would have remembered even that night to say anything. 1521 01:29:22,391 --> 01:29:24,013 DAVID: How many kids were on the field? 1522 01:29:24,048 --> 01:29:26,395 MATTHEW: At least 30. Thirty to forty I would say. 1523 01:29:26,430 --> 01:29:27,845 DAVID: And was that the high school band? 1524 01:29:27,879 --> 01:29:29,571 MATTHEW: Yes. 1525 01:29:29,605 --> 01:29:31,849 DAVID: And so, this was just before you guys went back to school? 1526 01:29:31,883 --> 01:29:33,989 MATTHEW: Yes, band camp. 1527 01:29:34,023 --> 01:29:35,818 -MATTHEW: Late August. -DAVID: Late August? 1528 01:29:35,853 --> 01:29:38,027 So, what time at night do you think that was? 1529 01:29:38,890 --> 01:29:40,202 Between six and seven. 1530 01:29:40,236 --> 01:29:42,998 We were rehearsing normally out here 1531 01:29:43,032 --> 01:29:45,000 about six or seven o'clock, 1532 01:29:45,034 --> 01:29:47,278 doing our normal routine. 1533 01:29:47,312 --> 01:29:49,660 When, all of a sudden, there was this bright light in the sky 1534 01:29:49,694 --> 01:29:51,386 that just came out of nowhere. 1535 01:29:53,042 --> 01:29:55,390 And we all just kind of stopped and looked at it as one. 1536 01:29:56,529 --> 01:29:58,116 DAVID: Where was the light? 1537 01:29:58,151 --> 01:30:01,603 So, the light was anywhere... 1538 01:30:01,637 --> 01:30:03,052 It was above the treeline for sure, 1539 01:30:03,087 --> 01:30:05,917 just kind of hovering in the skyline. 1540 01:30:06,918 --> 01:30:08,782 Close enough for it to catch your attention. 1541 01:30:10,405 --> 01:30:11,785 Like, it shouldn't have been there, I guess. 1542 01:30:11,820 --> 01:30:13,442 If it was some man made thing, 1543 01:30:13,477 --> 01:30:14,926 it was too low to be there. 1544 01:30:16,341 --> 01:30:19,241 Okay, what was the weather like that night? 1545 01:30:19,275 --> 01:30:20,725 Clear and hot. 1546 01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:22,140 Typical August Ohio weather. 1547 01:30:22,175 --> 01:30:24,522 DAVID: Okay, what color was it? 1548 01:30:24,557 --> 01:30:25,799 MATTHEW: Candle orange. 1549 01:30:25,834 --> 01:30:27,042 As far as I can tell, 1550 01:30:27,076 --> 01:30:28,906 the thing had no definable edges to it. 1551 01:30:28,940 --> 01:30:30,079 There were no, like, dimensions. 1552 01:30:30,114 --> 01:30:32,737 It was just kind of waxing and waning 1553 01:30:32,772 --> 01:30:34,463 till it zapped out. 1554 01:30:34,498 --> 01:30:36,707 You know, our band director, he never stops for anything. 1555 01:30:36,741 --> 01:30:39,468 He stopped and turned around and looked at this and goes, 1556 01:30:39,503 --> 01:30:41,263 "What the hell was that?" 1557 01:30:41,297 --> 01:30:44,266 Before I had time to even think of what I was seeing, it was gone. 1558 01:30:44,300 --> 01:30:46,268 And then it was just kind of an imprint in your mind, 1559 01:30:46,302 --> 01:30:47,959 like I've seen something strange. 1560 01:30:51,446 --> 01:30:55,484 DAVID: So, in your gut, are the two issues related? 1561 01:30:55,519 --> 01:30:58,107 I often wonder now. 1562 01:30:58,142 --> 01:31:00,282 All I can say is it happened within the same time frame 1563 01:31:00,316 --> 01:31:03,112 basically as my experience here. 1564 01:31:03,147 --> 01:31:06,046 About half a mile over there, as the crow would fly. 1565 01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:09,498 BRUCE: This is a Blackberry. 1566 01:31:10,775 --> 01:31:13,260 On the back it has the lens. 1567 01:31:13,295 --> 01:31:14,607 It's not like the modern ones. 1568 01:31:14,641 --> 01:31:18,300 It has a camera on the front and a camera at the back. 1569 01:31:18,334 --> 01:31:20,198 Though I'd be taking your picture right now, 1570 01:31:20,233 --> 01:31:21,993 but I would not be taking my picture. 1571 01:31:22,856 --> 01:31:24,617 Something happened to the camera. 1572 01:31:24,651 --> 01:31:26,308 I don't know what. 1573 01:31:26,342 --> 01:31:29,484 But there's hard evidence of some weird thing that happened. 1574 01:31:29,518 --> 01:31:32,694 She took a couple of pictures of herself before the event, 1575 01:31:32,728 --> 01:31:37,457 which provided a fixed point of investigation, you might say. 1576 01:31:37,492 --> 01:31:39,666 And she took another picture afterwards. 1577 01:31:39,701 --> 01:31:42,842 So you have the camera phone doing its normal thing 1578 01:31:42,876 --> 01:31:44,326 before and after, 1579 01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,640 but right in the middle, with this one photo, 1580 01:31:47,674 --> 01:31:50,194 something bizarre happened. 1581 01:31:50,228 --> 01:31:54,129 The picture she took, the resolution somehow changed 1582 01:31:54,163 --> 01:31:55,510 for that one picture. 1583 01:31:58,029 --> 01:32:01,930 You could manually change the cellphone 1600x1200, 1584 01:32:02,758 --> 01:32:05,520 1024x760, or something like that. 1585 01:32:05,554 --> 01:32:07,383 And 640X480. 1586 01:32:07,418 --> 01:32:11,008 But it got changed to 500X400 or something. 1587 01:32:11,042 --> 01:32:13,010 Numbers that don't exist. 1588 01:32:13,044 --> 01:32:15,840 I don't know how to make it do that resolution. 1589 01:32:15,875 --> 01:32:18,740 You have to get it out and re-wire it somehow, 1590 01:32:18,774 --> 01:32:20,224 or it changed the software. 1591 01:32:20,949 --> 01:32:22,364 But even changing the software 1592 01:32:22,398 --> 01:32:26,368 doesn't change the pixels along the edge of the sensor. 1593 01:32:26,402 --> 01:32:29,405 I don't know how to explain this film imagery stuff. 1594 01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:33,893 I can't imagine what this... what it looks like well focused. 1595 01:32:33,927 --> 01:32:35,273 I don't know what that is. 1596 01:32:37,068 --> 01:32:39,105 DAVID: I've had people write to me and say 1597 01:32:39,139 --> 01:32:43,385 "What that is is that Jan took a picture of her own hair." 1598 01:32:43,419 --> 01:32:46,595 My hair was back. Through the back of the ball cap. 1599 01:32:47,872 --> 01:32:50,392 Where it... It was tied back. 1600 01:32:50,426 --> 01:32:52,946 DAVID: So, there was no part of you that could have been in that? 1601 01:32:52,981 --> 01:32:54,534 JAN: No way. No way. 1602 01:32:54,569 --> 01:32:56,571 It'll be possible for us to take a picture, 1603 01:32:57,641 --> 01:33:00,264 of her hair, if she put her hand back there. 1604 01:33:00,298 --> 01:33:02,577 But that wouldn't change the resolution 1605 01:33:02,611 --> 01:33:05,925 of the camera or the byte size of the picture. 1606 01:33:05,959 --> 01:33:07,202 DAVID: So, Jan, let me ask you, 1607 01:33:07,236 --> 01:33:09,963 since that has happened, has it changed your life? 1608 01:33:10,999 --> 01:33:12,587 Yeah, I've never been back in that wood. 1609 01:33:12,621 --> 01:33:16,452 I actually ended up buying a Redneck deer blind. 1610 01:33:16,487 --> 01:33:18,765 I mean, I want something surrounding me. 1611 01:33:21,147 --> 01:33:23,321 BRUCE: Imagine if you saw something in the woods 1612 01:33:23,356 --> 01:33:26,152 some strange thing like that like the ... 1613 01:33:26,186 --> 01:33:28,603 you'd probably be wary of going back there, too. 1614 01:33:47,449 --> 01:33:49,624 DAVID: When looking at these cases individually, 1615 01:33:50,279 --> 01:33:52,627 Aaron Hedges, Tom Messick, 1616 01:33:53,351 --> 01:33:54,974 Mel Nadel, 1617 01:33:55,008 --> 01:33:58,805 it's easy to pass them off as isolated strange occurrences. 1618 01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:00,289 Anomalies. 1619 01:34:00,324 --> 01:34:03,465 But when you look from an informed perspective, 1620 01:34:03,499 --> 01:34:07,642 and you see hundreds of victims falling in to same profile points 1621 01:34:07,676 --> 01:34:11,646 scattered throughout our national forests and national parks, 1622 01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:14,338 you have to stop and question the reality of it. 1623 01:34:15,995 --> 01:34:18,963 Is it possible for an 82-year-old man 1624 01:34:18,998 --> 01:34:22,173 with heart, eye and hearing issues 1625 01:34:22,208 --> 01:34:24,693 to simply vanish while sitting alone in the woods? 1626 01:34:26,591 --> 01:34:31,527 Can a man with severe hypothermia hike six miles through 1627 01:34:31,562 --> 01:34:34,254 a foot and a half to two feet of snow with no shoes? 1628 01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:36,981 In many of the cases, 1629 01:34:37,016 --> 01:34:40,398 rifles, pistols and archery equipment are never found. 1630 01:34:40,433 --> 01:34:44,195 These items don't blow away and animals don't drag them off. 1631 01:34:45,714 --> 01:34:49,511 Sometimes, their remains are found miles and miles off track, 1632 01:34:49,545 --> 01:34:53,032 where the victim had no intention of ever going. 1633 01:34:53,066 --> 01:34:57,174 Often, they're found in an area that's been searched dozens of times. 1634 01:34:57,208 --> 01:35:00,556 It's like they've been placed there after the searchers have left. 1635 01:35:04,629 --> 01:35:05,734 To this point, 1636 01:35:05,769 --> 01:35:08,219 we've investigated close to 1200 cases 1637 01:35:08,254 --> 01:35:10,739 that fit theMissing 411 profile. 1638 01:35:12,879 --> 01:35:14,605 They're not all hunters. 1639 01:35:14,639 --> 01:35:19,058 Some are children, some are people vacationing in national parks, 1640 01:35:19,092 --> 01:35:22,717 some are just out taking a walk in nature. 1641 01:35:22,751 --> 01:35:27,204 Each are beyond the scope of normal scientific understanding.