1 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,541 [intense music] 2 00:00:20,672 --> 00:00:23,675 - [Interviewer] Why did you start to take in the children? 3 00:00:23,805 --> 00:00:25,329 - I love children. 4 00:00:25,459 --> 00:00:26,982 - [Announcer] At the weekend, six children were seized 5 00:00:27,113 --> 00:00:28,854 from a property owned by the sect, 6 00:00:28,984 --> 00:00:31,248 under care and protection applications. 7 00:00:31,378 --> 00:00:33,467 - You stole them from sect members? 8 00:00:33,598 --> 00:00:35,730 Doctors to organise the adoption? 9 00:00:35,861 --> 00:00:37,950 - I was just handed over. 10 00:00:38,081 --> 00:00:40,953 The legal system goes, "Where is this baby?" 11 00:00:41,084 --> 00:00:42,041 - [Announcer] Yesterday, seven members 12 00:00:42,172 --> 00:00:43,869 of Anne Hamilton-Byrne's sect 13 00:00:43,999 --> 00:00:46,045 pleaded guilty of deploying the Common Wealth. 14 00:00:46,176 --> 00:00:48,265 - [Adam] Auntie Anne sucked as much money outta people 15 00:00:48,395 --> 00:00:50,528 as she possibly could. 16 00:00:50,658 --> 00:00:53,008 - [Rebecca] I believe that that's why Anne was there, 17 00:00:53,139 --> 00:00:55,359 to be around and to learn black magic. 18 00:00:57,143 --> 00:00:58,405 - Anne cursed me because I betrayed the cult 19 00:00:58,536 --> 00:01:00,364 motto of unseen, unheard, unknown. 20 00:01:00,494 --> 00:01:02,061 [placid music] 21 00:01:02,192 --> 00:01:06,065 - She told us that she came from some royal family. 22 00:01:06,196 --> 00:01:08,546 They definitely did have friends in high places. 23 00:01:08,676 --> 00:01:10,069 [placid music] 24 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,898 - There was a lot of talk about ruling the world 25 00:01:13,028 --> 00:01:14,465 and having a perfect world. 26 00:01:16,119 --> 00:01:18,643 - [Ben] We used to call the place a concentration camp. 27 00:01:18,773 --> 00:01:20,688 - What was going on was wrong. 28 00:01:20,819 --> 00:01:22,864 Someone had to do something about it. 29 00:01:22,995 --> 00:01:24,257 [placid music] 30 00:01:24,388 --> 00:01:25,824 - [Lex] I was in the zone, 31 00:01:25,954 --> 00:01:27,913 I needed to finish this case. 32 00:01:28,043 --> 00:01:30,524 [placid music] 33 00:01:30,655 --> 00:01:32,700 - [Announcer] Then came the breakthrough. 34 00:01:32,831 --> 00:01:34,746 [intense music] 35 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,836 ♪ Waiting for redemption ♪ 36 00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:42,014 ♪ Like a dog expecting a reward ♪ 37 00:01:42,188 --> 00:01:46,453 ♪ Is this is the endless void of nothing ♪ 38 00:01:46,627 --> 00:01:51,284 ♪ Or the coming of the Lord ♪ 39 00:01:52,285 --> 00:01:55,810 ♪ Come on, give me outside ♪ 40 00:01:55,984 --> 00:02:00,424 ♪ Show me my love is real ♪ 41 00:02:00,598 --> 00:02:04,993 ♪ All safe outta town ♪ 42 00:02:05,168 --> 00:02:08,388 ♪ Is this part of the deal ♪ 43 00:02:13,872 --> 00:02:15,308 [intense music] 44 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:18,137 - We heard that the sect solicitor, Peter Kibby, 45 00:02:18,268 --> 00:02:20,748 had left the family after an argument with Anne. 46 00:02:21,923 --> 00:02:23,186 [placid music] 47 00:02:23,316 --> 00:02:26,014 The key to the activities of the cult 48 00:02:26,145 --> 00:02:28,408 probably laid in the brain of Peter Kibby, 49 00:02:28,539 --> 00:02:30,410 because he had done all the documentation 50 00:02:30,541 --> 00:02:32,673 on transactions for all the houses the cult 51 00:02:32,804 --> 00:02:34,936 had bought for Anne, 52 00:02:35,067 --> 00:02:38,897 on some of the births, and so forth. 53 00:02:39,027 --> 00:02:41,726 The golden rule is a document doesn't lie. 54 00:02:41,856 --> 00:02:43,858 People lie on the documents. 55 00:02:43,989 --> 00:02:45,338 And we found a crime 56 00:02:45,469 --> 00:02:47,993 where he falsified a statutory declaration. 57 00:02:49,429 --> 00:02:51,953 For a solicitor, that's a pretty serious offence, 58 00:02:52,084 --> 00:02:54,652 because they can lose their practising certificate. 59 00:02:54,782 --> 00:02:56,349 [placid music] 60 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,439 - Myself and Lex de Man travelled to a country town 61 00:02:59,570 --> 00:03:02,181 and spoke to this gentleman who was a practising solicitor 62 00:03:02,312 --> 00:03:03,226 at the time. 63 00:03:05,053 --> 00:03:09,057 And charged him with perjury. 64 00:03:09,188 --> 00:03:13,192 - And we said, "If you wish to talk to us about the cult 65 00:03:13,323 --> 00:03:16,630 "and about Anne, it may well assist in the court proceedings 66 00:03:16,761 --> 00:03:18,458 "in the future." 67 00:03:18,589 --> 00:03:20,895 [placid music] 68 00:03:22,984 --> 00:03:24,247 A week or two later 69 00:03:24,377 --> 00:03:26,031 find when in the office 70 00:03:26,161 --> 00:03:29,774 this really animated and I have to say delightful voice 71 00:03:29,904 --> 00:03:31,732 is on the end of the phone saying 72 00:03:31,863 --> 00:03:32,820 "Lex, Peter Kibby" 73 00:03:32,951 --> 00:03:34,387 Yes Peter, 74 00:03:34,518 --> 00:03:36,041 "I'd like to have a cup of coffee with you." 75 00:03:37,651 --> 00:03:39,914 [mumbling] 76 00:03:42,308 --> 00:03:46,269 He was so angry of what his life had become 77 00:03:47,661 --> 00:03:48,793 that he didn't hold back. 78 00:03:50,273 --> 00:03:54,102 I've been shown a legal document numbered 60610 79 00:03:54,233 --> 00:03:56,583 which pertains to the appointment of Anne Hamilton-Byrne 80 00:03:56,714 --> 00:04:01,066 as the legal guardian of Simon John Mackay. 81 00:04:01,196 --> 00:04:03,982 My recollection is because it was the first one 82 00:04:04,112 --> 00:04:06,767 I didn't know whether I had to file the 83 00:04:06,898 --> 00:04:08,552 Appointment of Guardian. 84 00:04:08,682 --> 00:04:10,728 She had physical custody or control of the child 85 00:04:10,858 --> 00:04:12,207 and wished to changed name child of the child 86 00:04:12,338 --> 00:04:13,513 to Hamilton-Byrne. 87 00:04:13,644 --> 00:04:15,472 [cool music] 88 00:04:15,602 --> 00:04:17,822 - We arrange for Peter to be picked up 89 00:04:17,952 --> 00:04:19,389 every morning at 8:30 90 00:04:20,781 --> 00:04:22,043 and we'd take him down to this 91 00:04:22,174 --> 00:04:24,437 Police headquarters. 92 00:04:24,568 --> 00:04:27,048 And took his handwritten statement 93 00:04:27,179 --> 00:04:29,529 and it took right about about three months. 94 00:04:29,660 --> 00:04:31,009 [intense music] 95 00:04:31,139 --> 00:04:32,663 - I've been shown two certified documents 96 00:04:32,793 --> 00:04:34,447 which pertain to the registration of a child 97 00:04:34,578 --> 00:04:36,493 alleged to have been born to 98 00:04:36,623 --> 00:04:38,408 Anne and William Hamilton-Byrne. 99 00:04:38,538 --> 00:04:39,887 In January of that year I went to England 100 00:04:40,018 --> 00:04:42,586 and called on Anne at Broom Farm. 101 00:04:42,716 --> 00:04:44,588 Anne appeared to be pregnant 102 00:04:44,718 --> 00:04:47,721 and told me that the baby was due in March that year. 103 00:04:47,852 --> 00:04:49,941 Now this is where the dates conflict. 104 00:04:51,769 --> 00:04:55,773 I said that I saw John Mackay in England in 1974. 105 00:04:55,903 --> 00:04:56,643 It was [mumbles] 106 00:04:56,774 --> 00:04:58,210 - Peter was a victim. 107 00:04:58,341 --> 00:05:00,038 Like many of the people who were in the cult, 108 00:05:00,168 --> 00:05:03,215 Peter suffered from a disease of 109 00:05:03,346 --> 00:05:05,783 compulsive obsessive disorder. 110 00:05:05,913 --> 00:05:08,481 It would take him to have a shower sometimes 111 00:05:08,612 --> 00:05:10,831 two to three hours and four bars of soap. 112 00:05:12,790 --> 00:05:14,269 And so he never got to the office. 113 00:05:15,358 --> 00:05:17,142 [splashing] 114 00:05:17,272 --> 00:05:21,233 - He was desperate to get rid of this affliction, 115 00:05:21,364 --> 00:05:23,278 and Anne told him all he had to do 116 00:05:23,409 --> 00:05:26,325 was just obey everything Anne told him to do 117 00:05:26,456 --> 00:05:28,458 and he would be cured. 118 00:05:28,588 --> 00:05:30,677 - And at one stage Anne actually arranged 119 00:05:30,808 --> 00:05:31,939 and had him have a leucotomy 120 00:05:33,332 --> 00:05:35,900 surgery on the brain through the eye socket, 121 00:05:36,030 --> 00:05:38,990 - And I think he had frontal lobe damage 122 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,295 actually after that 123 00:05:40,426 --> 00:05:44,038 which made his behaviour even more bizarre 124 00:05:44,169 --> 00:05:45,475 than what it was before. 125 00:05:45,605 --> 00:05:48,913 [placid music] 126 00:05:49,043 --> 00:05:50,958 - Peter was not a bad person. 127 00:05:51,089 --> 00:05:52,873 But he'd been deceived through his illness 128 00:05:53,004 --> 00:05:54,309 to commit crimes for Anne. 129 00:05:56,137 --> 00:05:58,662 - I prepared the affidavit for Mrs Frances Demontfort, 130 00:05:58,792 --> 00:06:01,491 Jacqueline Drew and Myrtle Johnstone. 131 00:06:01,621 --> 00:06:04,058 These three people were in fact non-existent 132 00:06:04,189 --> 00:06:06,757 and their names and addresses have been invented by Anne. 133 00:06:06,887 --> 00:06:08,280 - By then we're building a dossier 134 00:06:08,411 --> 00:06:11,370 and a profile on a whole range of documents. 135 00:06:11,501 --> 00:06:16,114 - I've seen a Transfer of land numbered 6435925. 136 00:06:16,244 --> 00:06:18,116 The signature of Fiona MacDonald was signed 137 00:06:18,246 --> 00:06:20,510 by Anne Hamilton-Byrne herself in my presence 138 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,600 on around the 10th of November 1976. 139 00:06:23,730 --> 00:06:27,038 I in fact was acting for both the owner and the purchaser. 140 00:06:27,168 --> 00:06:29,954 - With Peter was going through each of the documents 141 00:06:30,084 --> 00:06:32,522 to affirm his knowledge of how a document was created. 142 00:06:33,784 --> 00:06:36,003 - I'm sorry if I'm being very pedantic 143 00:06:36,134 --> 00:06:37,875 - It's all right. 144 00:06:38,005 --> 00:06:40,660 - That's what bloody solicitors should be like. 145 00:06:40,791 --> 00:06:41,966 - Even though we had a lot of pressure on us 146 00:06:42,096 --> 00:06:43,750 to wrap up the investigation, 147 00:06:43,881 --> 00:06:44,969 it's not a thing to rush. 148 00:06:48,494 --> 00:06:51,062 Peter, was the key to the door. 149 00:06:51,192 --> 00:06:53,717 [intense music] 150 00:06:53,847 --> 00:06:56,067 He broke the code of silence within that sect 151 00:06:59,940 --> 00:07:01,159 The way I look at Peter is 152 00:07:03,030 --> 00:07:04,031 as someone who had the guts 153 00:07:05,946 --> 00:07:06,860 to actually stand up and say, 154 00:07:06,991 --> 00:07:10,821 "no - what we did was wrong." 155 00:07:10,951 --> 00:07:12,170 - And what is there is the truth? 156 00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:13,301 - Yep, oh it is. 157 00:07:13,432 --> 00:07:14,651 [chuckling] I'd be a bloody fool 158 00:07:14,781 --> 00:07:16,217 to be saying anything else, wouldn't I? 159 00:07:16,348 --> 00:07:17,044 - Thank you very much for your co-operation. 160 00:07:17,175 --> 00:07:20,134 [mumbling] 161 00:07:20,265 --> 00:07:24,051 - And once were in possession of that substantial statement, 162 00:07:24,182 --> 00:07:28,012 I put in a request to return to my original position 163 00:07:28,142 --> 00:07:32,712 at the Major Crime Squad as Officer in Charge Operations. 164 00:07:34,148 --> 00:07:35,976 I was confident in Lex de Man 165 00:07:36,107 --> 00:07:40,111 and the other members to finish what needed to be done. 166 00:07:47,858 --> 00:07:51,035 - I first met Lex de Man and the others 167 00:07:51,165 --> 00:07:53,472 with a view to going through the 168 00:07:53,603 --> 00:07:55,561 enormous amount of material, 169 00:07:55,692 --> 00:07:58,433 to ascertain if they could charge 170 00:07:58,564 --> 00:08:00,218 any of the sect members 171 00:08:00,348 --> 00:08:03,221 with any offence and it was in relation to 172 00:08:03,351 --> 00:08:06,485 abuse of the young people in their care. 173 00:08:06,616 --> 00:08:09,314 And I found it very difficult, 174 00:08:09,444 --> 00:08:11,272 as did the police, 175 00:08:11,403 --> 00:08:13,840 that it was going to be almost impossible 176 00:08:15,581 --> 00:08:18,715 to have sufficient evidence to prove 177 00:08:18,845 --> 00:08:21,674 the physical abuse that 178 00:08:21,805 --> 00:08:23,894 these young people complained of which 179 00:08:24,024 --> 00:08:25,025 I've no doubt was true. 180 00:08:26,244 --> 00:08:27,550 [intense music] 181 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,204 But there was a lot of dishonesty 182 00:08:30,335 --> 00:08:31,858 in obtaining children. 183 00:08:31,989 --> 00:08:33,164 So we focused on that. 184 00:08:35,340 --> 00:08:37,342 - Anne had years earlier 185 00:08:37,472 --> 00:08:39,300 provided advice to the New Zealand authorities 186 00:08:39,431 --> 00:08:41,128 said she'd actually given birth 187 00:08:41,259 --> 00:08:43,304 in New Zealand but at the time, 188 00:08:43,435 --> 00:08:45,742 "Sorry, I actually gave birth to triplets 189 00:08:45,872 --> 00:08:47,744 but I told you I gave birth to twins, 190 00:08:47,874 --> 00:08:49,267 I forgot to put the other one there." 191 00:08:49,397 --> 00:08:50,747 And they just accepted it. 192 00:08:52,096 --> 00:08:53,750 And Peter of course, did all the documentation. 193 00:08:56,448 --> 00:08:59,059 [Sarah]-She made me a twin with Simon for a while 194 00:08:59,190 --> 00:09:01,105 and then when got birth certificates 195 00:09:01,235 --> 00:09:02,933 and passports from New Zealand 196 00:09:03,063 --> 00:09:05,544 it was said that were born there. 197 00:09:05,675 --> 00:09:10,418 So two boys and me were made into triplets from New Zealand. 198 00:09:11,768 --> 00:09:14,205 All of a sudden, changed nationalities as well. 199 00:09:15,554 --> 00:09:17,904 I thought that was quite neat, being a triplet. 200 00:09:18,035 --> 00:09:19,993 I wasn't so sure about being a New Zealander 201 00:09:21,212 --> 00:09:22,692 because by that stage, 202 00:09:22,822 --> 00:09:24,998 one of the Aunties had started letting us 203 00:09:25,129 --> 00:09:26,347 watch some cricket so, I had to change sides 204 00:09:26,478 --> 00:09:29,742 from Australia to New Zealand. [laughs] 205 00:09:35,226 --> 00:09:36,793 [Carolyn] The police had birth certificates to 206 00:09:36,923 --> 00:09:41,928 prove that each of those children were born in Victoria, 207 00:09:42,059 --> 00:09:44,583 to people other than Anne and Bill Hamilton-Byrne. 208 00:09:44,714 --> 00:09:45,410 You don't need a witness, those documents 209 00:09:45,540 --> 00:09:46,019 spoke for themselves. 210 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:57,117 [intense music] 211 00:09:59,859 --> 00:10:01,165 [Lex]- I loved the thrill of the chase. 212 00:10:03,036 --> 00:10:04,516 We knew we were that close. 213 00:10:06,126 --> 00:10:08,215 And we just had to get Anne and get Bill 214 00:10:08,346 --> 00:10:10,217 back to Australia. 215 00:10:11,523 --> 00:10:13,960 [Intense music] 216 00:10:15,353 --> 00:10:17,790 [siren blaring] 217 00:10:19,096 --> 00:10:22,360 [plane engine roaring] 218 00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:24,797 [intense music] 219 00:10:24,928 --> 00:10:27,452 We knew Anne was moving between England and America. 220 00:10:29,889 --> 00:10:31,674 We established liaison with Interpol, 221 00:10:31,804 --> 00:10:33,806 New Scotland Yard and the FBI 222 00:10:33,937 --> 00:10:35,199 so that we could track her down. 223 00:10:36,374 --> 00:10:38,855 [intense music] 224 00:10:43,555 --> 00:10:45,818 [Hilda]- I received a teletype, 225 00:10:45,949 --> 00:10:48,516 Lex called me and filled in a lot of the blanks. 226 00:10:49,779 --> 00:10:51,432 This was a mission for him, 227 00:10:51,563 --> 00:10:53,043 and he was determined 228 00:10:53,173 --> 00:10:55,132 to write a very horrible wrong. 229 00:10:59,745 --> 00:11:02,139 Hurleyville and Sullivan County would be 230 00:11:02,269 --> 00:11:03,706 optimum locations 231 00:11:03,836 --> 00:11:06,186 if someone wanted to be under the radar for sure. 232 00:11:07,492 --> 00:11:09,363 A lot of the property in Sullivan County 233 00:11:09,494 --> 00:11:12,018 is owned by religious movements. 234 00:11:12,149 --> 00:11:13,803 You don't have people living next door to you 235 00:11:13,933 --> 00:11:14,804 for the most part so that gives you a lot more opportunity 236 00:11:17,023 --> 00:11:18,633 to do whatever you want to do 237 00:11:18,764 --> 00:11:19,634 without being observed. 238 00:11:22,246 --> 00:11:24,335 [intense music] 239 00:11:24,465 --> 00:11:26,511 I got up there early enough so that I could 240 00:11:26,641 --> 00:11:28,905 go out with the postal worker who had that route. 241 00:11:30,384 --> 00:11:31,559 In those types of communities, the postal service 242 00:11:31,690 --> 00:11:33,300 usually knows exactly what's going on. 243 00:11:39,437 --> 00:11:41,613 [intense music] 244 00:11:41,744 --> 00:11:43,310 My concern was 245 00:11:43,441 --> 00:11:46,009 the two people we were interested in arresting, 246 00:11:46,139 --> 00:11:47,401 actually live in the house. 247 00:11:48,620 --> 00:11:50,753 [hooting] 248 00:11:54,278 --> 00:11:55,888 The 'home run' would have been for one of them 249 00:11:56,019 --> 00:11:56,933 to come out and pick up the mail 250 00:11:57,063 --> 00:11:59,283 while I was sitting in the van 251 00:11:59,413 --> 00:12:00,371 but that didn't happen. 252 00:12:01,981 --> 00:12:03,591 Nobody picked up the mail as I was there. 253 00:12:05,028 --> 00:12:07,857 [suspenseful music] 254 00:12:10,773 --> 00:12:12,600 [buzzing] 255 00:12:14,428 --> 00:12:15,908 - [Lex] The Kent constabulary 256 00:12:16,039 --> 00:12:19,782 started doing some surveillance around Broom Farm 257 00:12:19,912 --> 00:12:21,261 - [Anne] They put you in the paper. 258 00:12:21,392 --> 00:12:22,175 [barking] 259 00:12:22,306 --> 00:12:23,002 They say you're false. 260 00:12:25,439 --> 00:12:26,353 - [Lex] We wanted them to know 261 00:12:26,484 --> 00:12:27,224 that we were looking at them, 262 00:12:27,354 --> 00:12:28,703 we were watching them. 263 00:12:28,834 --> 00:12:30,096 - [Anne] Whatever it is I've gone through, 264 00:12:30,227 --> 00:12:31,576 Whatever it is you'll go through 265 00:12:31,706 --> 00:12:34,622 don't be frightened. This is your mission. 266 00:12:37,582 --> 00:12:39,018 [Lex]- I remember one night, 267 00:12:39,149 --> 00:12:41,064 Anne made a fundamental mistake and rang Sarah 268 00:12:43,588 --> 00:12:45,198 and Sarah came to us and said, 269 00:12:45,329 --> 00:12:47,244 "I think she's in the United States." 270 00:12:47,374 --> 00:12:49,768 [placid music] 271 00:12:55,774 --> 00:12:57,645 [barking] 272 00:13:03,913 --> 00:13:06,524 [Hilda]- Our goal was to take these two people into custody 273 00:13:06,654 --> 00:13:07,873 with the least possible problem. 274 00:13:11,137 --> 00:13:13,183 [barking] 275 00:13:13,313 --> 00:13:15,489 We were up there early on a cold morning. 276 00:13:16,751 --> 00:13:18,579 Early enough to put them 277 00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:20,320 at a disadvantage almost immediately. 278 00:13:25,108 --> 00:13:26,979 William opened the door, 279 00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:30,026 Anne appeared very quickly. 280 00:13:30,156 --> 00:13:30,722 I kept telling her we have to move, we have to leave, 281 00:13:30,853 --> 00:13:31,679 let's hurry up. 282 00:13:33,507 --> 00:13:36,946 But she was very, very concerned about how she looked. 283 00:13:37,076 --> 00:13:40,340 [phone ringing] 284 00:13:40,471 --> 00:13:42,995 [Lex]- Hilda Kogut rang and said, 285 00:13:43,126 --> 00:13:45,606 "We've got the bitch" Bang! 286 00:13:45,737 --> 00:13:46,956 And I exploded. 287 00:13:49,610 --> 00:13:51,961 And I remember picking up chairs in the kitchen 288 00:13:52,091 --> 00:13:53,876 and throwing them against the walls, 289 00:13:54,006 --> 00:13:55,660 an emotional outburst of tears. 290 00:13:58,924 --> 00:14:01,884 My whole life was wrapped up in this investigation. 291 00:14:06,236 --> 00:14:08,542 [buzzing] 292 00:14:10,283 --> 00:14:12,851 [Kerry Lawrence]-I got a phone call from Special Agent Kogut 293 00:14:12,982 --> 00:14:14,548 that the two of them had been arrested 294 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,289 up in the Catskills 295 00:14:16,420 --> 00:14:19,902 and to prepare for their arrival in court. 296 00:14:21,642 --> 00:14:23,993 - [Announcer] Anne Hamilton-Byrne and her husband William, 297 00:14:24,123 --> 00:14:25,995 were arrested at their home in upstate New York. 298 00:14:26,125 --> 00:14:27,692 [camera shutters clicking] 299 00:14:27,822 --> 00:14:28,432 - [Announcer] The Hamilton-Byrnes are being held in 300 00:14:28,562 --> 00:14:29,433 a state prison. 301 00:14:29,563 --> 00:14:30,825 Police hope to have the pair 302 00:14:30,956 --> 00:14:32,262 extradited to Melbourne state prison. 303 00:14:32,392 --> 00:14:33,611 They plan to make a bail application on Monday. 304 00:14:33,741 --> 00:14:36,048 [intense music] 305 00:14:36,179 --> 00:14:37,267 [David Whitaker]- I've still got a photo that 306 00:14:37,397 --> 00:14:40,618 I cut out at The Age of her in chains 307 00:14:40,748 --> 00:14:42,489 looking very dishevelled, 308 00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:44,491 which would have bothered her big time. 309 00:14:45,884 --> 00:14:46,624 [Roland Whitaker]- I was devastated when she 310 00:14:46,754 --> 00:14:47,407 was put into jail. 311 00:14:49,975 --> 00:14:52,499 I thought, "How the hell could you do that?" 312 00:14:52,630 --> 00:14:54,719 It's like putting Queen Elizabeth into jail. 313 00:14:57,287 --> 00:15:00,159 [Kerry]- Their attorneys made a full throttle approach 314 00:15:00,290 --> 00:15:02,031 that they should be released on bail, 315 00:15:02,161 --> 00:15:03,902 that they were not a danger to the community, 316 00:15:04,033 --> 00:15:05,643 that they had health problems. 317 00:15:05,773 --> 00:15:08,385 [placid music] 318 00:15:10,865 --> 00:15:12,345 [Lex] - When they said she's got a bad heart, 319 00:15:12,476 --> 00:15:14,043 I said, "We'll bring a doctor". 320 00:15:14,173 --> 00:15:15,000 There was no way known that she was not 321 00:15:15,131 --> 00:15:15,958 going to come back to Australia, 322 00:15:16,088 --> 00:15:17,307 as far as I was concerned. 323 00:15:19,222 --> 00:15:22,355 - While he was still being held in custody, 324 00:15:22,486 --> 00:15:24,227 one of Bill's cellmates was murdered 325 00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:28,753 and it frightened Bill and finally, 326 00:15:28,883 --> 00:15:31,625 Bill put his hand up and said, "I've had enough." 327 00:15:31,756 --> 00:15:34,672 [plane engine roaring] 328 00:15:37,675 --> 00:15:39,851 [placid music] 329 00:15:39,982 --> 00:15:41,331 - Four of us ended going to the 330 00:15:41,461 --> 00:15:42,767 United States to the extradition. 331 00:15:48,729 --> 00:15:53,691 I looked evil in the eye 332 00:15:53,821 --> 00:15:56,346 that day ...and even today it affects when I talk about it. 333 00:15:57,869 --> 00:16:00,524 [placid music] 334 00:16:05,572 --> 00:16:08,967 - I'm deeply ashamed of my grandmother. 335 00:16:09,098 --> 00:16:12,188 The havoc and the cruelty; 336 00:16:12,318 --> 00:16:14,364 she's hurt so many people. 337 00:16:14,494 --> 00:16:15,843 How could I feel any other way? 338 00:16:18,498 --> 00:16:21,719 The mind boggles at the damage done 339 00:16:21,849 --> 00:16:23,677 and I'm still trying to work out 340 00:16:23,808 --> 00:16:25,027 whether she meant to do it 341 00:16:26,941 --> 00:16:28,726 or whether it just kind of took on a life of its own. 342 00:16:32,338 --> 00:16:33,861 - God clearly speaks about 343 00:16:33,992 --> 00:16:37,213 there being his power and then powers from the devil. 344 00:16:40,433 --> 00:16:43,088 When I look at everything that Anne touched; 345 00:16:43,219 --> 00:16:45,786 you trace suicides, marriages split up, 346 00:16:45,917 --> 00:16:48,702 kids destroyed, drug addiction, 347 00:16:48,833 --> 00:16:51,618 on and on it goes so I look at the effect of that power, 348 00:16:51,749 --> 00:16:53,490 and I have to say it is demonic. 349 00:16:54,752 --> 00:16:56,971 [mumbling] 350 00:16:58,930 --> 00:17:00,366 - [Anne] To thy last supper, let me be allowed to stay, 351 00:17:00,497 --> 00:17:01,150 oh son of god. For neither have I betrayed any 352 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,586 secrets to thine enemies 353 00:17:02,716 --> 00:17:03,717 nor have I given thee the kiss of Judas. 354 00:17:03,848 --> 00:17:05,502 But like a thief I pray unto thee. 355 00:17:05,632 --> 00:17:08,113 Oh remember me oh Lord as I enter into thy glorious kingdom. 356 00:17:08,244 --> 00:17:10,550 [placid music] 357 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,860 - [Announcer] Just before nine o'clock this morning 358 00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:19,037 Victorian police had Anne and William Hamilton-Byrne 359 00:17:19,168 --> 00:17:20,647 back on Australian soil. 360 00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:23,259 Detectives took the couple 361 00:17:23,389 --> 00:17:24,912 straight to the Melbourne Magistrates' Court, 362 00:17:25,043 --> 00:17:27,611 for what all thought would be a brief unopposed... 363 00:17:27,741 --> 00:17:30,135 - [Announcer] Bail wasn't opposed. The Hamilton-Byrnes' were 364 00:17:30,266 --> 00:17:33,356 each released with a $25,000 surety. 365 00:17:33,486 --> 00:17:35,923 Their solicitor says they will be pleading not guilty. 366 00:17:38,404 --> 00:17:39,623 - There was no two ways about it, 367 00:17:39,753 --> 00:17:41,059 she and Bill were going to get bail. 368 00:17:42,582 --> 00:17:43,844 But we wanted to make sure that 369 00:17:43,975 --> 00:17:45,977 they had stringent reporting conditions 370 00:17:46,108 --> 00:17:48,110 which they did have. At that point 371 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:49,850 that was a sense of achievement. 372 00:17:49,981 --> 00:17:50,764 We've got her. 373 00:17:50,895 --> 00:17:53,027 [hooting] 374 00:17:54,942 --> 00:17:56,770 - When she was extradited back 375 00:17:56,901 --> 00:17:59,295 it was all mad chaos. 376 00:17:59,425 --> 00:18:00,774 I mean I loved her to bits but geez 377 00:18:00,905 --> 00:18:02,341 she was a bloody troublemaker. 378 00:18:04,604 --> 00:18:06,780 What can you do? They're your family? 379 00:18:06,911 --> 00:18:08,695 and you stick by your family. 380 00:18:09,870 --> 00:18:10,871 - [Announcer] Lawyers for sect leaders 381 00:18:11,002 --> 00:18:12,743 Anne and William Hamilton-Byrne 382 00:18:12,873 --> 00:18:15,441 have challenged the jurisdiction of the charges 383 00:18:15,572 --> 00:18:16,268 Defence counsel John Winneke QC said New Zealand courts 384 00:18:16,399 --> 00:18:17,878 must decide the case. 385 00:18:18,009 --> 00:18:20,838 said New Zealand courts must decide the case. 386 00:18:20,968 --> 00:18:22,709 - There was a decision made 387 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,929 that there had to be clarification of the law. 388 00:18:25,059 --> 00:18:26,887 And then we had to wait 389 00:18:27,018 --> 00:18:30,587 in the list to proceed before the Court of Appeal. 390 00:18:35,592 --> 00:18:37,420 - I think I was 25 or 26 391 00:18:37,550 --> 00:18:39,726 when Anne and Bill came back to Australia, 392 00:18:39,857 --> 00:18:42,642 and I guess I formed a little bit of a 393 00:18:42,773 --> 00:18:44,514 adult-type relationship with them. 394 00:18:46,690 --> 00:18:48,953 I invited Anne and Bill to my wedding. 395 00:18:52,565 --> 00:18:54,654 I wanted Bill to walk me down the aisle. 396 00:18:54,785 --> 00:18:56,830 [hymn tune] 397 00:18:58,789 --> 00:19:00,704 He'd always dreamed about it 398 00:19:00,834 --> 00:19:01,922 and I thought, well, you know, 399 00:19:02,053 --> 00:19:03,837 I can give that to him as an adult. 400 00:19:07,972 --> 00:19:09,800 I'm sure it confused a lot of people, 401 00:19:09,930 --> 00:19:12,977 my decision, but the man that brought me up was Bill 402 00:19:13,107 --> 00:19:16,110 and he was the one that ultimately got the job. 403 00:19:19,026 --> 00:19:21,638 I don't know what it was, but I adored him. 404 00:19:21,768 --> 00:19:22,856 We looked alike. 405 00:19:22,987 --> 00:19:24,684 We both had black curly hair 406 00:19:24,815 --> 00:19:25,642 except mine was blonded. 407 00:19:25,772 --> 00:19:27,905 I had blue eyes, you know, 408 00:19:28,035 --> 00:19:29,211 [chuckling] he was my father. 409 00:19:31,735 --> 00:19:34,520 I have two mothers and three fathers. 410 00:19:34,651 --> 00:19:37,915 My stepfather, my father and my father I grew up with, 411 00:19:38,045 --> 00:19:41,092 so I differentiate them, when I talk to people. 412 00:19:41,223 --> 00:19:43,573 [upbeat music] 413 00:19:44,878 --> 00:19:46,532 My anger was never towards Bill. 414 00:19:46,663 --> 00:19:48,621 It was always towards Anne, 415 00:19:48,752 --> 00:19:50,928 because she was the one that controlled everybody 416 00:19:51,058 --> 00:19:52,799 and everybody was a puppet on her string. 417 00:19:54,845 --> 00:19:56,499 I felt sorry for him, 418 00:19:56,629 --> 00:20:00,720 because, you know, he was an extremely successful man 419 00:20:00,851 --> 00:20:02,113 in his own right. 420 00:20:04,028 --> 00:20:06,770 He was captivated by her charm 421 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:08,685 just like everybody else was. 422 00:20:08,815 --> 00:20:11,165 [cool music] 423 00:20:13,429 --> 00:20:15,866 [intense music] 424 00:20:22,481 --> 00:20:24,266 - The matter was three or four months 425 00:20:24,396 --> 00:20:25,658 before the Court of Appeal 426 00:20:25,789 --> 00:20:28,705 because it was really quite technical. 427 00:20:28,835 --> 00:20:29,706 I appeared on behalf of the Prosecution 428 00:20:29,836 --> 00:20:31,708 and Patrick Tehan 429 00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:36,713 appeared for them lead by John Winneke QC. 430 00:20:38,541 --> 00:20:39,846 Clearly the Hamilton-Byrnes 431 00:20:39,977 --> 00:20:42,196 were prepared to spend a lot of money. 432 00:20:42,327 --> 00:20:44,677 [flacid music] 433 00:20:47,332 --> 00:20:48,986 - It all ended up like a bit of a farce 434 00:20:49,116 --> 00:20:50,466 because she had such good lawyers. 435 00:20:51,902 --> 00:20:54,121 The law takes it much more seriously 436 00:20:54,252 --> 00:20:57,864 if there's money or documents involved than child abuse. 437 00:20:59,344 --> 00:21:01,215 - They were very angry about the system. 438 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,698 They saw us dressed in robes and wigs 439 00:21:05,829 --> 00:21:08,745 talking about esoteric points of law. 440 00:21:08,875 --> 00:21:10,877 It wasn't about what really happened to them. 441 00:21:15,752 --> 00:21:17,231 - Many people have asked me, 442 00:21:17,362 --> 00:21:20,322 "Why wasn't she charged with anything else?" 443 00:21:20,452 --> 00:21:25,152 Once you extradite somebody from from another country, 444 00:21:26,937 --> 00:21:29,243 part of the process is that you give a commitment 445 00:21:29,374 --> 00:21:32,638 that you won't slap them with further charges. 446 00:21:32,769 --> 00:21:35,554 You can't, just say, right now I've got you back on that. 447 00:21:35,685 --> 00:21:37,991 I'm now gonna give you this charge 448 00:21:38,122 --> 00:21:39,602 and this charge, and this charge, 449 00:21:39,732 --> 00:21:41,995 because that goes against the whole agreement 450 00:21:42,126 --> 00:21:43,257 of the extradition. 451 00:21:43,388 --> 00:21:46,348 [placid music] 452 00:21:46,478 --> 00:21:48,306 - [Announcer] In the Hamilton-Byrne sect case, 453 00:21:48,437 --> 00:21:50,656 the full bench of the Supreme Court has found 454 00:21:50,787 --> 00:21:52,049 the charge of conspiring 455 00:21:52,179 --> 00:21:54,312 to the fraud authorities in New Zealand 456 00:21:54,443 --> 00:21:56,836 cannot be heard in Victoria. 457 00:21:56,967 --> 00:21:59,448 - [Announcer] Mr. Winneke said the offence was trivial. 458 00:21:59,578 --> 00:22:00,927 He said the Australian authorities 459 00:22:01,058 --> 00:22:02,929 had made a mountain out of a molehill 460 00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:05,715 - [Announcer] After long legal battle in the Supreme Court, 461 00:22:05,845 --> 00:22:07,325 one charge was dropped. 462 00:22:15,072 --> 00:22:17,901 - [Anne] My friends, we are winning through 463 00:22:18,031 --> 00:22:20,294 by the power of the Holy Spirit! 464 00:22:20,425 --> 00:22:22,601 After years of trying to fight evil, 465 00:22:22,732 --> 00:22:25,996 only to be put in jail for no reason. 466 00:22:26,126 --> 00:22:27,780 Oh yes, it hurts. 467 00:22:27,911 --> 00:22:31,567 But if we remain steadfast and know and say, 468 00:22:31,697 --> 00:22:33,873 this is the Lord God's battle, 469 00:22:34,004 --> 00:22:35,440 I will trust him wholly. 470 00:22:38,051 --> 00:22:40,793 [intense music] 471 00:22:40,924 --> 00:22:43,492 - Anne Hamilton-Byrne had an enormous hold on people, 472 00:22:43,622 --> 00:22:47,452 and it was admiration, adulation and fear. 473 00:22:49,323 --> 00:22:53,763 It's a little like an organised crime syndicate. 474 00:22:53,893 --> 00:22:56,766 They would never ever give evidence against her 475 00:22:56,896 --> 00:22:58,463 or make a statement against her. 476 00:23:02,293 --> 00:23:03,686 - [Announcer] Today sect leaders Anne 477 00:23:03,816 --> 00:23:05,731 and William Hamilton-Byrne will be sentenced 478 00:23:05,862 --> 00:23:07,559 in the County Court. 479 00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:11,476 They face up to five years in jail and a $60,000 fine. 480 00:23:14,827 --> 00:23:17,351 - I remember walking to the County Court.. 481 00:23:17,482 --> 00:23:19,441 the feeling that this is it. 482 00:23:19,571 --> 00:23:20,572 This is the Day of Judgement 483 00:23:22,879 --> 00:23:24,837 - I went to court the last day 484 00:23:24,968 --> 00:23:27,623 and she had all the cult members all around her and all, 485 00:23:27,753 --> 00:23:29,146 you know sort of glaring and saying 486 00:23:29,276 --> 00:23:32,236 nasty things that us children. 487 00:23:32,366 --> 00:23:33,803 - [Announcer] Anne and Bill Hamilton-Byrne 488 00:23:33,933 --> 00:23:36,675 appeared confident when they arrived at court. 489 00:23:36,806 --> 00:23:39,591 Their case attracted a huge media contingent 490 00:23:39,722 --> 00:23:43,552 72 year old Anne and 71 year old Bill Hamilton-Byrne 491 00:23:43,682 --> 00:23:45,902 had pleaded guilty to making false statements 492 00:23:46,032 --> 00:23:46,946 - Whilst a large part of me 493 00:23:47,077 --> 00:23:49,558 didn't want to see her suffer. 494 00:23:51,690 --> 00:23:53,213 I still wanted there to be justice 495 00:23:53,344 --> 00:23:57,087 and for there to be some sort of acknowledgment 496 00:23:57,217 --> 00:24:01,483 that something bad has happened to us children. 497 00:24:05,008 --> 00:24:07,750 - I recall sitting in the court 498 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,622 and I will remember before the judgement , 499 00:24:10,753 --> 00:24:13,146 just a sick feeling in the stomach that 500 00:24:13,277 --> 00:24:15,758 this is it. Thiis will be the end of the police case. 501 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:18,543 People were looking at us 502 00:24:20,632 --> 00:24:22,547 were we going to get an outcome 503 00:24:22,678 --> 00:24:25,463 that was going to be the right outcome? 504 00:24:36,735 --> 00:24:39,433 [intense music] 505 00:24:41,653 --> 00:24:43,612 - [Announcer] The founder of The Family religious sect 506 00:24:43,742 --> 00:24:45,831 and her husband have been spared jail terms 507 00:24:45,962 --> 00:24:47,659 for faking documents which claimed 508 00:24:47,790 --> 00:24:49,661 three children were their own. 509 00:24:49,792 --> 00:24:52,490 $5,000 fines were imposed on the couple 510 00:24:52,621 --> 00:24:53,883 and outside the court... 511 00:24:54,013 --> 00:24:55,362 - [Announcer] The Hamilton-Byrnes escaped 512 00:24:55,493 --> 00:24:59,453 a maximum five year jail term and $60,000 fine. 513 00:24:59,584 --> 00:25:00,498 They had nothing to say about the decision 514 00:25:00,629 --> 00:25:02,326 - [Announcer] In sentencing. 515 00:25:02,456 --> 00:25:04,415 Justice Jones took into account the couple's ages 516 00:25:04,546 --> 00:25:06,330 the fact neither is in good health 517 00:25:06,460 --> 00:25:07,853 and the three months they've already spent 518 00:25:07,984 --> 00:25:09,289 in an American prison. 519 00:25:10,813 --> 00:25:11,335 - I was angry, that after all that work, 520 00:25:12,641 --> 00:25:15,121 the system had let us down. 521 00:25:15,252 --> 00:25:17,559 She got a paltry monetary penalty. 522 00:25:18,995 --> 00:25:20,649 I was wild. 523 00:25:20,779 --> 00:25:22,694 I couldn't show it. 524 00:25:22,825 --> 00:25:24,174 They should have been going through another door, 525 00:25:24,304 --> 00:25:25,479 they should have been going through the door 526 00:25:25,610 --> 00:25:28,047 to the cells, not the door to freedom. 527 00:25:32,791 --> 00:25:34,140 - Well, I'm not going to stand here and 528 00:25:34,271 --> 00:25:35,141 bewail the inadequacies of the legal system, 529 00:25:35,272 --> 00:25:37,013 I think that goes without saying 530 00:25:37,143 --> 00:25:38,580 What I would say is, 531 00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:39,842 I'm very glad it's all over and 532 00:25:39,972 --> 00:25:41,452 we can get on with living our lives. 533 00:25:42,627 --> 00:25:44,673 - They didn't go to jail for 534 00:25:44,803 --> 00:25:47,458 beating us nearly every single day and starving us. 535 00:25:49,199 --> 00:25:51,462 And she didn't get anything nothing. 536 00:25:53,595 --> 00:25:54,857 - And we all have mental scarring. 537 00:25:54,987 --> 00:25:56,598 It doesn't matter 538 00:25:56,728 --> 00:25:58,730 whether we show it and whether we survive normal life. 539 00:25:58,861 --> 00:26:01,341 We all have suffered, and we all have 540 00:26:01,472 --> 00:26:02,778 something that we take with us 541 00:26:02,908 --> 00:26:05,519 from the childhood that we survived, 542 00:26:05,650 --> 00:26:06,564 because that's all we did, 543 00:26:06,695 --> 00:26:07,652 we just survived that. 544 00:26:09,654 --> 00:26:10,568 - There was no justice. 545 00:26:12,309 --> 00:26:13,266 It hurt the kids 546 00:26:14,311 --> 00:26:16,008 and they'd all given statements 547 00:26:16,139 --> 00:26:18,707 and worked so closely with the Police 548 00:26:18,837 --> 00:26:20,273 to try and get the community to understand 549 00:26:20,404 --> 00:26:22,058 what had happened to them. 550 00:26:22,188 --> 00:26:24,495 And then we shut the door and said, "Nothing we can do." 551 00:26:26,105 --> 00:26:28,542 - Was justice ultimately done? 552 00:26:28,673 --> 00:26:32,503 Did she face court 553 00:26:32,634 --> 00:26:35,071 for all the crimes that we allege, 554 00:26:35,201 --> 00:26:38,248 that we alleged we had that we knew of? No. 555 00:26:43,862 --> 00:26:45,603 Its goingt be with me for the rest of my life. 556 00:26:50,869 --> 00:26:53,655 ....I need a break, I need a break. 557 00:27:07,538 --> 00:27:09,671 [cool music] 558 00:27:28,341 --> 00:27:29,603 - [Announcer] The police investigation 559 00:27:29,734 --> 00:27:30,822 into the Hamilton-Byrne's group called 560 00:27:30,953 --> 00:27:34,304 "Operation Forest" lasted four years 561 00:27:34,434 --> 00:27:37,046 and cost more than a half a million dollars. 562 00:27:37,176 --> 00:27:39,657 11 officers worked on the case full time, 563 00:27:39,788 --> 00:27:43,052 which included six overseas trips seeking information. 564 00:27:43,879 --> 00:27:46,098 - When Operation Forest ended, 565 00:27:46,229 --> 00:27:47,709 there was a lot of criticism about 566 00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:49,972 what we'd achieved or more so 567 00:27:50,102 --> 00:27:51,147 what we hadn't achieved. 568 00:27:53,584 --> 00:27:55,629 We did our best. 569 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,980 We had recommended a Royal Commission 570 00:27:58,110 --> 00:27:59,242 at the start of it, 571 00:27:59,372 --> 00:28:00,156 but we were knocked back. 572 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,114 Our hands were tied 573 00:28:05,596 --> 00:28:06,815 But we brought her back, 574 00:28:06,945 --> 00:28:08,773 we put her up before the County Court, 575 00:28:08,904 --> 00:28:11,776 and she said the words we didn't say the words. 576 00:28:11,907 --> 00:28:13,430 She said the words, we didn't say the words 'guilty'. 577 00:28:19,958 --> 00:28:21,960 - [Anne] This is Lakshmi, isn't it Lakshmi? 578 00:28:34,190 --> 00:28:36,627 - She needed things to love, little things. 579 00:28:38,411 --> 00:28:41,240 The children were taken off her so 580 00:28:41,371 --> 00:28:42,938 she went for animals. 581 00:28:43,068 --> 00:28:44,591 And well we all know that 582 00:28:44,722 --> 00:28:46,332 animals give unconditional love. 583 00:28:51,555 --> 00:28:53,949 - This idea that you can 584 00:28:54,079 --> 00:28:55,646 bring a group of children together 585 00:28:55,777 --> 00:28:57,430 from all sorts of backgrounds, 586 00:28:58,301 --> 00:29:00,259 all sorts of different families, 587 00:29:00,390 --> 00:29:05,177 and then ram a type of ideology down their throat. 588 00:29:06,396 --> 00:29:07,527 I don't think it would have ever worked, 589 00:29:07,658 --> 00:29:09,355 okay. You can't muck around with kids 590 00:29:09,486 --> 00:29:11,270 physically, emotionally or any other way. 591 00:29:12,315 --> 00:29:14,752 [intense music] 592 00:29:18,887 --> 00:29:20,192 - I couldn't believe that 593 00:29:20,323 --> 00:29:21,541 adults didn't know what was going on. 594 00:29:26,764 --> 00:29:28,418 When we were children, 595 00:29:28,548 --> 00:29:30,594 people around the lake would hear us screaming. 596 00:29:32,726 --> 00:29:34,641 - [Sarah] A couple of times police did come up. 597 00:29:34,772 --> 00:29:37,775 I remember at least once that we were interviewed by them. 598 00:29:39,211 --> 00:29:40,343 - The Auntie's were there during the questioning, 599 00:29:40,473 --> 00:29:42,432 and I do remember one question, 600 00:29:42,562 --> 00:29:44,347 and that was, "Are you being fed properly?" 601 00:29:45,304 --> 00:29:46,740 I was surviving, I was alive 602 00:29:46,871 --> 00:29:49,526 yeah, sure I'm being fed properly, you know, 603 00:29:50,832 --> 00:29:52,964 well, how much are you supposed to have? 604 00:29:53,095 --> 00:29:54,574 [laughing] I had no idea. 605 00:29:57,142 --> 00:29:58,752 - I would never have dared say 606 00:29:58,883 --> 00:30:00,842 anything at that time to anybody about what went on. 607 00:30:02,539 --> 00:30:04,193 We were all very protective of our parents. 608 00:30:07,196 --> 00:30:09,067 They put on a show for the education department 609 00:30:09,198 --> 00:30:11,983 and actually got it registered as a school. 610 00:30:12,114 --> 00:30:13,593 The education minister came. 611 00:30:13,724 --> 00:30:15,247 The school room 612 00:30:15,378 --> 00:30:17,989 was dressed up to look like a real school room. 613 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,905 There were these wonderful equations on the board 614 00:30:21,036 --> 00:30:22,907 to make us look advanced and sophisticated. 615 00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:31,394 [placid music] 616 00:30:39,663 --> 00:30:41,056 - [Barbara] The people up there 617 00:30:41,186 --> 00:30:43,449 had convinced themselves that 618 00:30:43,580 --> 00:30:46,713 they were doing what was, in the long run, 619 00:30:46,844 --> 00:30:48,977 good for the children. 620 00:30:49,107 --> 00:30:50,369 - [Sarah] Powerful people didn't really 621 00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:52,719 want this known about. 622 00:30:52,850 --> 00:30:54,852 And even people that left cult, 623 00:30:54,983 --> 00:30:56,506 that knew about it, 624 00:30:56,636 --> 00:30:58,116 there were so terrified 625 00:30:58,247 --> 00:31:00,902 of Anne's retribution, and they didn't say anything. 626 00:31:03,687 --> 00:31:05,602 - [Tricia] I blame myself that maybe 627 00:31:05,732 --> 00:31:08,431 I could have stopped this many, 628 00:31:08,561 --> 00:31:10,476 many years ago, but I didn't. 629 00:31:12,783 --> 00:31:14,089 Being your mother, 630 00:31:14,219 --> 00:31:16,265 I didn't want to report it or. 631 00:31:16,395 --> 00:31:18,397 I didn't know where to go, or what to do. 632 00:31:20,138 --> 00:31:22,184 Belting them and locking them in cupboards 633 00:31:22,314 --> 00:31:24,055 when they're babies for wetting the bed. 634 00:31:25,665 --> 00:31:29,408 That's just inexcusable. 635 00:31:29,539 --> 00:31:34,109 It's just not something that a normal human being does. 636 00:31:38,809 --> 00:31:42,030 Had I gone to the police in the early 70s 637 00:31:43,292 --> 00:31:46,295 how much sorrow could I have stopped? 638 00:31:46,425 --> 00:31:47,992 How much heartbreak for these 639 00:31:49,733 --> 00:31:51,517 poor little defenceless children? 640 00:32:07,098 --> 00:32:09,318 - But it wasn't Anne doing it. 641 00:32:09,448 --> 00:32:11,842 Okay she might have been up here and in that sense, 642 00:32:11,973 --> 00:32:13,496 she has responsibility as the ruler 643 00:32:13,626 --> 00:32:15,324 and the leader of the sect, okay. 644 00:32:15,454 --> 00:32:18,066 You gotta understand and be in control of you disciples. 645 00:32:18,196 --> 00:32:20,590 Unfortunately, she had people running round 646 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,506 doing shit I believe that she didn't know about. 647 00:32:23,636 --> 00:32:25,073 Yeah, you can't have your... 648 00:32:25,203 --> 00:32:26,813 if you're not there in the room with the person 649 00:32:26,944 --> 00:32:29,512 100% of the time, how do you know what they're doing? 650 00:32:29,642 --> 00:32:31,775 They could to tell you anything? 651 00:32:31,905 --> 00:32:32,906 - No comment. 652 00:32:34,821 --> 00:32:35,779 - Do you intend to take that course 653 00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:38,042 with any question I put to you? 654 00:32:38,173 --> 00:32:39,522 That you don't wanna comment? 655 00:32:39,652 --> 00:32:40,871 - No comment. 656 00:32:41,002 --> 00:32:43,091 - Well, there are several allegations 657 00:32:43,221 --> 00:32:46,268 that I'd like to put to you in a general way. 658 00:32:46,398 --> 00:32:49,706 - After my son, David was brought back, 659 00:32:49,836 --> 00:32:53,927 I did say to Elizabeth Whitaker, 660 00:32:54,058 --> 00:32:56,321 he was not treated well or something like that. 661 00:32:57,714 --> 00:33:01,544 And she said, he was the same as everybody else. 662 00:33:01,674 --> 00:33:03,502 They're all treated the same. 663 00:33:04,808 --> 00:33:06,549 I said that's the problem. 664 00:33:06,679 --> 00:33:07,985 They were not people. 665 00:33:08,116 --> 00:33:09,334 They were numbers. 666 00:33:09,465 --> 00:33:10,857 I said what number was David 667 00:33:10,988 --> 00:33:13,295 was he number seven or number 15? 668 00:33:14,774 --> 00:33:16,994 No individual mothering. 669 00:33:17,125 --> 00:33:19,562 No, hugging, no anything. 670 00:33:19,692 --> 00:33:22,434 She said no, that was what Anne wanted, 671 00:33:22,565 --> 00:33:24,349 and that it was good for the children. 672 00:33:31,008 --> 00:33:33,837 - We had a very, very normal upbringing as little children. 673 00:33:35,839 --> 00:33:38,233 Was mom and dad with three kids 674 00:33:38,363 --> 00:33:40,844 living in a house in Melbourne. 675 00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:45,849 My mother was never violent, never abusive. 676 00:33:45,979 --> 00:33:48,852 I never saw any sign of what was to come. 677 00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:52,421 [intense music] 678 00:33:56,425 --> 00:33:58,514 How my mother got sucked into such a thing 679 00:33:58,644 --> 00:34:00,211 and demonstrated such 680 00:34:00,342 --> 00:34:01,734 monstrous behaviour later is 681 00:34:01,865 --> 00:34:03,475 as absolute mystery to me. 682 00:34:08,741 --> 00:34:09,960 I've pondered it long and hard 683 00:34:10,091 --> 00:34:11,353 and I really don't understand 684 00:34:11,483 --> 00:34:13,659 how professional well-educated people 685 00:34:13,790 --> 00:34:17,185 could be sucked in by such nonsense. 686 00:34:17,315 --> 00:34:19,709 [intense music] 687 00:34:22,625 --> 00:34:25,845 - Intelligence really has nothing to do 688 00:34:25,976 --> 00:34:29,110 with people's emotional vulnerability, 689 00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:31,982 and Anne somehow knew that 690 00:34:32,113 --> 00:34:35,333 and Anne was able to target people 691 00:34:35,464 --> 00:34:37,683 who were very emotionally vulnerable. 692 00:34:41,339 --> 00:34:44,081 In my case, I didn't have a lot of mothering. 693 00:34:44,212 --> 00:34:46,605 So I came to adulthood, 694 00:34:46,736 --> 00:34:49,652 searching for a mother figure. 695 00:34:49,782 --> 00:34:51,610 Lots of people are like that. 696 00:34:51,741 --> 00:34:54,265 They have some sort of lack 697 00:34:54,396 --> 00:34:57,529 in their personality, I suppose. 698 00:34:57,660 --> 00:35:01,490 So she presented herself as this person 699 00:35:01,620 --> 00:35:06,321 who sort of could fulfil this void in their life. 700 00:35:10,238 --> 00:35:13,502 [intense music] 701 00:35:13,632 --> 00:35:16,461 - My father saw through it relatively early. 702 00:35:16,592 --> 00:35:19,072 He left in 1970, 703 00:35:20,770 --> 00:35:24,513 He made a conscious decision to leave the cult, 704 00:35:24,643 --> 00:35:27,124 and to sever all ties with anybody 705 00:35:27,255 --> 00:35:28,821 that had any connection with the cult. 706 00:35:30,649 --> 00:35:33,086 That unfortunately included me 707 00:35:33,217 --> 00:35:35,176 so he never had any more contact with me. 708 00:35:38,744 --> 00:35:40,268 For a long, long time, 709 00:35:40,398 --> 00:35:41,965 I was very bent out of shape about it. 710 00:35:44,315 --> 00:35:45,925 I'd like to think I'm over it now. 711 00:35:50,756 --> 00:35:52,541 - There's probably not a lot of psychiatrists 712 00:35:52,671 --> 00:35:54,499 who have shifted a whole heap of patients 713 00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:56,588 into a lunatic cult, 714 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,764 and then seen through it and just up and left. 715 00:36:00,157 --> 00:36:02,290 Personally, I think he had a moral obligation 716 00:36:02,420 --> 00:36:04,292 to his patients chose not to fulfil. 717 00:36:07,251 --> 00:36:09,253 To be honest, I know he's my father, 718 00:36:09,384 --> 00:36:10,907 but he really should have been reported 719 00:36:11,037 --> 00:36:11,908 to the Medical Board. 720 00:36:13,692 --> 00:36:16,391 - [Reporter] You and Dr Whitaker are 721 00:36:16,521 --> 00:36:18,088 both on record as having members 722 00:36:18,219 --> 00:36:19,742 of the group called "The Family." 723 00:36:19,872 --> 00:36:21,744 - Um.. 724 00:36:21,874 --> 00:36:22,832 - [Reporter How did that relate 725 00:36:22,962 --> 00:36:24,747 to your practise as psychiatrist? 726 00:36:24,877 --> 00:36:27,358 Were you always able to keep that barrier between the two? 727 00:36:36,498 --> 00:36:39,501 Did one spill over into the other and vice versa? 728 00:36:39,631 --> 00:36:40,632 - Well, at times you had 729 00:36:46,072 --> 00:36:48,640 members of that group who were patients. 730 00:36:49,728 --> 00:36:51,513 And atare times you had patients 731 00:36:53,689 --> 00:36:55,430 who went into yoga classes, 732 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:56,692 and then meditation classes 733 00:36:56,822 --> 00:36:58,346 and became members of that group. 734 00:37:02,698 --> 00:37:06,963 And the fact that your practice had a spiritual bias, 735 00:37:07,093 --> 00:37:09,444 it wasn't used as a method of recruiting 736 00:37:09,574 --> 00:37:11,010 or anything like that in fact. 737 00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:16,929 - [Reporter] But you would have steered the odd patient 738 00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:18,714 into the direction of that group. 739 00:37:18,844 --> 00:37:21,282 - I would steer the odd patient direction of yoga, yes. 740 00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:31,379 [siren blaring] 741 00:37:31,509 --> 00:37:33,642 - [Lex] Our society needs to understand 742 00:37:33,772 --> 00:37:36,253 where the instrument of government failed. 743 00:37:36,384 --> 00:37:38,516 It failed at the hospital end 744 00:37:39,952 --> 00:37:42,433 it failed at the at the Department of Health end, 745 00:37:42,564 --> 00:37:46,655 it was slow to react at the Victoria Police end. 746 00:37:46,785 --> 00:37:47,438 - You have to remember this is the 1970s and early 1980s. 747 00:37:50,746 --> 00:37:52,965 And there was still a sense of trust 748 00:37:54,097 --> 00:37:58,101 in people of professional status. 749 00:37:58,231 --> 00:38:01,060 And there was still a sense of trust in institutions. 750 00:38:03,062 --> 00:38:05,500 - Victoria was different from most of the other states 751 00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:07,284 in that it had a really strong 752 00:38:07,415 --> 00:38:09,765 non-government welfare sector. 753 00:38:09,895 --> 00:38:12,463 The first legislation in Victoria is in 1928. 754 00:38:12,594 --> 00:38:14,291 It gives a lot of people 755 00:38:14,422 --> 00:38:17,555 a right to arrange adoptions including doctors and lawyers. 756 00:38:17,686 --> 00:38:19,340 So you've got a whole lot of approved agencies 757 00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:22,255 as well as the major hospitals. 758 00:38:22,386 --> 00:38:25,258 So yes, that meant if you wanted to go shopping, 759 00:38:25,389 --> 00:38:27,652 you could move your way around and people did. 760 00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:33,441 And then when you get to the Hamilton-Byrne scenario, 761 00:38:33,571 --> 00:38:35,138 well, here's someone that's really 762 00:38:35,268 --> 00:38:36,313 manipulating the system. 763 00:38:37,706 --> 00:38:39,577 Even what she's doing is not illegal. 764 00:38:41,013 --> 00:38:43,538 What she's doing is using a weakness in the system 765 00:38:43,668 --> 00:38:46,236 to exploit it for her own purposes. 766 00:38:47,977 --> 00:38:50,632 [baby crying] 767 00:38:50,762 --> 00:38:52,808 - In the past year, 18,000 768 00:38:52,938 --> 00:38:55,593 illegitimate babies have been born in Australia. 769 00:38:55,724 --> 00:38:58,466 One birth in 12, is illegitimate. 770 00:38:59,815 --> 00:39:02,513 - So you have this big nursery of crying babies 771 00:39:02,644 --> 00:39:06,387 that had to be fed. For the hospital, a major crisis. 772 00:39:06,517 --> 00:39:08,127 They've got so many to process, 773 00:39:08,258 --> 00:39:10,913 they're just processing adoptions over and over again, 774 00:39:11,043 --> 00:39:12,436 That pressure on the hospital to 775 00:39:12,567 --> 00:39:14,090 get it done, get it done quickly 776 00:39:14,220 --> 00:39:16,527 meant that nobody's questioning the practise. 777 00:39:18,486 --> 00:39:20,226 - The other thing was that there was no paper trail 778 00:39:20,357 --> 00:39:21,967 in terms of adoption with regard 779 00:39:22,098 --> 00:39:25,362 to Anne and Bill because and Bill didn't adopt anybody. 780 00:39:25,493 --> 00:39:28,365 They instigated adoptions 781 00:39:28,496 --> 00:39:31,412 with the intention of taking the children eventually. 782 00:39:33,631 --> 00:39:36,112 The law wasn't up to it. 783 00:39:36,242 --> 00:39:37,983 It wasn't enough. 784 00:39:38,114 --> 00:39:41,944 And neither was the investigative power of the police. 785 00:39:54,565 --> 00:39:57,263 - I remember when Uncle Bill died, 786 00:39:57,394 --> 00:40:00,702 that they embalmed his body for a period of time 787 00:40:00,832 --> 00:40:04,140 and the body was in Crowther [Hall] until the funeral. 788 00:40:06,664 --> 00:40:08,753 I think we're all a little bit dumbfounded 789 00:40:08,884 --> 00:40:10,189 that Uncle Bill was gone. 790 00:40:12,496 --> 00:40:13,976 [ominous music] 791 00:40:14,106 --> 00:40:16,631 I was there at the funeral. 792 00:40:16,761 --> 00:40:18,676 There was a lot of people there 793 00:40:18,807 --> 00:40:21,418 I think Auntie Anne did hire bodyguards 794 00:40:21,549 --> 00:40:23,072 because it was thought that 795 00:40:23,202 --> 00:40:25,640 she might have been assassinated going there. 796 00:40:25,770 --> 00:40:28,947 She was always afraid of being 797 00:40:29,078 --> 00:40:29,818 in the public eye. 798 00:40:31,602 --> 00:40:33,430 Uncle Bill had no gravestone 799 00:40:33,561 --> 00:40:36,389 because of the motto "unseen, unheard, unknown." 800 00:40:42,483 --> 00:40:43,788 - [Anne] When you leave your body 801 00:40:43,919 --> 00:40:46,487 at the time we call death 802 00:40:47,531 --> 00:40:49,272 the Master steps out 803 00:40:50,186 --> 00:40:52,841 into other and higher worlds. 804 00:40:52,971 --> 00:40:56,584 He proved that death is only an appearance 805 00:40:56,714 --> 00:41:00,326 an illusion, that everybody can overcome. 806 00:41:18,823 --> 00:41:23,088 - Everyone has suffered the most enormous amount of loss. 807 00:41:24,786 --> 00:41:28,224 After my son's suicide, 808 00:41:28,354 --> 00:41:32,402 my method of coping was just to shut down. 809 00:41:35,405 --> 00:41:37,929 I couldn't feel anything. 810 00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:40,802 And I was just like that for a long time, 811 00:41:42,238 --> 00:41:44,501 and it's taken me years of therapy to 812 00:41:44,632 --> 00:41:48,505 just be a sort of open, 813 00:41:48,636 --> 00:41:51,334 or moderately open person. 814 00:41:56,818 --> 00:41:59,342 - I didn't know how to stop my anger for many, many years. 815 00:41:59,472 --> 00:42:01,562 And then I started learning about the amygdala 816 00:42:01,692 --> 00:42:03,651 and primitive area of the brain. 817 00:42:05,348 --> 00:42:06,392 If you're abused as a child, 818 00:42:06,523 --> 00:42:08,351 there's a good chance that 819 00:42:08,481 --> 00:42:09,352 that area of your brain is primed, it's set to a 820 00:42:09,482 --> 00:42:13,530 higher level than most people's. 821 00:42:13,661 --> 00:42:15,227 And you are more easily triggered. 822 00:42:16,577 --> 00:42:18,709 Now I know the rev-up signals, 823 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,540 so this part behind my ears starts feeling like pain. 824 00:42:24,454 --> 00:42:26,195 And I might start stuttering. 825 00:42:26,325 --> 00:42:27,892 There's different signals that make me go 'OK, 826 00:42:28,023 --> 00:42:30,112 I need to get away'. 827 00:42:30,242 --> 00:42:32,157 I have to go for walks to release cortisol, 828 00:42:32,288 --> 00:42:36,248 very fast walks, just whatever it takes to calm down. 829 00:42:37,772 --> 00:42:40,470 - Talking about experiences doesn't heal anything, 830 00:42:40,601 --> 00:42:41,210 to be honest. 831 00:42:43,647 --> 00:42:45,388 All you do is you open up what happened 832 00:42:45,518 --> 00:42:46,737 and speak through it. 833 00:42:46,868 --> 00:42:48,304 The heart's still wounded, 834 00:42:48,434 --> 00:42:50,698 the lack of love's still there. 835 00:42:50,828 --> 00:42:53,309 [intense music] 836 00:42:55,267 --> 00:42:58,575 I had made a decision to get to know God. 837 00:42:59,924 --> 00:43:02,057 I was praying and I remember having a vision. 838 00:43:04,668 --> 00:43:06,757 I'm standing on the edge of a cliff. 839 00:43:06,888 --> 00:43:07,802 It's completely black, 840 00:43:07,932 --> 00:43:10,369 I have to jump into the unknown. 841 00:43:13,546 --> 00:43:17,420 I jump and I get caught by a man in white robes, 842 00:43:17,550 --> 00:43:19,248 long beard, long hair, Jesus 843 00:43:19,378 --> 00:43:21,467 He's holding my hand walking me out on a moonscape. 844 00:43:24,688 --> 00:43:25,515 And immediately I'm back at Uptop in this 845 00:43:25,646 --> 00:43:28,300 experience with all of the fear. 846 00:43:34,219 --> 00:43:36,526 Jesus picked me up, put my head against his chest 847 00:43:36,657 --> 00:43:38,006 and said "I never meant it to be." 848 00:43:39,616 --> 00:43:40,835 I guess many a question would be 849 00:43:40,965 --> 00:43:42,445 why did God let these things happen? 850 00:43:43,576 --> 00:43:44,403 But he's rescued me 851 00:43:44,534 --> 00:43:45,927 he's pulled me out. 852 00:43:46,057 --> 00:43:47,668 And that was a major turning point for me. 853 00:43:53,761 --> 00:43:56,241 [intense music] 854 00:44:01,856 --> 00:44:03,335 - One of the ways I tried to obviate 855 00:44:03,466 --> 00:44:05,163 the effects of my childhood was 856 00:44:06,687 --> 00:44:08,036 to dedicate my life to helping others. 857 00:44:10,778 --> 00:44:13,563 [applauding] 858 00:44:13,694 --> 00:44:14,520 I became a doctor and I spent 859 00:44:14,651 --> 00:44:16,479 a lot of time overseas, 860 00:44:18,394 --> 00:44:22,354 going to remote places and war zones and helping 861 00:44:22,485 --> 00:44:24,400 volunteering, and doing all sorts of things. 862 00:44:25,531 --> 00:44:27,969 [intense music] 863 00:44:48,598 --> 00:44:49,338 - [Reporter] Were the children ever hit? 864 00:44:49,468 --> 00:44:50,600 - Of course they weren't. 865 00:44:51,819 --> 00:44:54,125 - Because... - They were not beaten. 866 00:44:54,256 --> 00:44:55,213 - Never? - Never. 867 00:44:55,344 --> 00:44:56,562 You just have to be pretty good 868 00:44:56,693 --> 00:44:58,390 to see through that bullshit. 869 00:44:58,521 --> 00:44:59,435 It's absolute bullshit. 870 00:44:59,565 --> 00:45:01,002 It's lies. 871 00:45:01,132 --> 00:45:03,265 All the children made all of this up did they? 872 00:45:03,395 --> 00:45:05,484 - Could be, and they were paid for it. 873 00:45:05,615 --> 00:45:06,659 - They were paid for it. 874 00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:07,748 - I'm asking you that. 875 00:45:07,878 --> 00:45:09,445 - You were paid a lot of money. 876 00:45:09,575 --> 00:45:11,273 - [Sarah] We weren't paid any money. 877 00:45:11,403 --> 00:45:12,665 - You were paid a lot of money. 878 00:45:12,796 --> 00:45:14,493 - Michael, you're living in a fantasy. 879 00:45:14,624 --> 00:45:15,407 - No I'm not. 880 00:45:15,538 --> 00:45:17,453 - You're living a lie. 881 00:45:17,583 --> 00:45:18,759 - I'm not living a lie, Michael.. 882 00:45:18,889 --> 00:45:20,543 Your entire life is a network of lies 883 00:45:20,673 --> 00:45:22,153 - As far as I'm concerned you are living a lie [mumbling] 884 00:45:22,284 --> 00:45:24,242 - Because your entire life is a network of lies. 885 00:45:24,373 --> 00:45:25,504 - You're suffering for it. 886 00:45:25,635 --> 00:45:26,854 - What I've suffered in this life 887 00:45:26,984 --> 00:45:28,943 is because of what happened up there. 888 00:45:29,073 --> 00:45:30,466 - [Anne] .. had a lot of pain. 889 00:45:30,596 --> 00:45:32,381 - As long as you blame others you're nowhere. 890 00:45:40,824 --> 00:45:42,043 - [Announcer] Anne Hamilton-Byrne's brain 891 00:45:42,173 --> 00:45:44,567 has been slowly eaten away by dementia. 892 00:45:44,697 --> 00:45:48,005 She now spends her days in this aged care facility 893 00:45:48,136 --> 00:45:50,921 and has completely lost touch with reality. 894 00:45:51,052 --> 00:45:53,924 That's the opportunity her former followers needed 895 00:45:54,055 --> 00:45:56,318 to start carving up and selling off 896 00:45:56,448 --> 00:45:58,581 her once great real estate empire. 897 00:46:04,717 --> 00:46:07,459 - It was so hypocritical and the disciples that attacked 898 00:46:07,590 --> 00:46:11,333 me and anyone else that they thought betrayed her. 899 00:46:11,463 --> 00:46:14,205 They were so self righteous and angry 900 00:46:14,336 --> 00:46:16,555 and they're just so hypocritical. 901 00:46:16,686 --> 00:46:18,514 Really it wasn't to do with religion, 902 00:46:18,644 --> 00:46:21,430 It was to do with power, money and control. 903 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,260 - Loyalty is huge in Auntie Anne and Uncle Bill's mind. 904 00:46:25,390 --> 00:46:28,263 Auntie Anne's never been able to trust many people. 905 00:46:28,393 --> 00:46:29,786 Anybody who left the family, 906 00:46:29,917 --> 00:46:31,048 don't ever come back. 907 00:46:32,310 --> 00:46:33,834 [barking] 908 00:46:33,964 --> 00:46:37,620 'Life For All Creatures' was set up over a decade ago. 909 00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:40,753 Auntie Anne set up that organisation to 910 00:46:40,884 --> 00:46:44,322 put all her assets from Hamilton-Byrne 911 00:46:44,453 --> 00:46:46,324 into Life For All Creatures, 912 00:46:46,455 --> 00:46:48,283 so that when she does die, 913 00:46:48,413 --> 00:46:51,460 none of the kids can get any money. 914 00:46:51,590 --> 00:46:52,504 - I think when she dies, 915 00:46:52,635 --> 00:46:54,332 what will be interesting is 916 00:46:54,463 --> 00:46:56,769 the fighting over the money between the sect members. 917 00:46:58,032 --> 00:46:59,642 Because this has always been about money. 918 00:47:00,948 --> 00:47:03,167 I mean, to me, that's been 919 00:47:03,298 --> 00:47:06,910 the real driving motive has been money and power. 920 00:47:07,041 --> 00:47:09,260 [cool music] 921 00:47:15,876 --> 00:47:17,834 - It still lives with me till today. 922 00:47:17,965 --> 00:47:20,315 I still get inquiries from mothers who 923 00:47:20,445 --> 00:47:24,275 gave up their children for adoption in the late 70s. 924 00:47:25,711 --> 00:47:28,497 And they track me down and they ask, you know, 925 00:47:28,627 --> 00:47:30,238 "Was one of the children one of mine?" 926 00:47:31,717 --> 00:47:32,631 And you can't say no. 927 00:47:34,372 --> 00:47:36,200 Even though I'm no longer in the police force. 928 00:47:36,331 --> 00:47:37,680 You do what you can to help. 929 00:47:44,817 --> 00:47:49,083 - To you, the mothers who were betrayed by a system 930 00:47:49,213 --> 00:47:53,304 that gave you no choice and subjected you to manipulation, 931 00:47:53,435 --> 00:47:57,874 mistreatment and malpractice, we apologise. 932 00:47:58,005 --> 00:48:00,007 We say sorry to you, the mothers 933 00:48:00,137 --> 00:48:02,879 who were forced to endure the coercion 934 00:48:03,010 --> 00:48:06,317 and brutality of practices that were unethical, 935 00:48:06,448 --> 00:48:09,146 dishonest, and in many cases illegal. 936 00:48:12,019 --> 00:48:15,457 For the loss, the grief, the disempowerment, 937 00:48:15,587 --> 00:48:19,287 the stigmatisation and the guilt, we say sorry, 938 00:48:27,643 --> 00:48:29,297 [intense music] 939 00:48:29,427 --> 00:48:32,387 To each of you who were adopted or removed, 940 00:48:32,517 --> 00:48:35,259 who were led to believe your mother had rejected you, 941 00:48:35,390 --> 00:48:36,304 we say sorry. 942 00:48:39,220 --> 00:48:41,483 We acknowledge that many of you still experience 943 00:48:41,613 --> 00:48:44,094 a constant struggle with identity, 944 00:48:44,225 --> 00:48:46,314 uncertainty and loss 945 00:48:46,444 --> 00:48:49,012 and feel a persistent tension 946 00:48:49,143 --> 00:48:53,060 between loyalty to one family and yearning for another. 947 00:48:54,670 --> 00:48:58,456 We recognise that the consequences continue to resonate 948 00:48:58,587 --> 00:49:00,284 through many, many lives. 949 00:49:23,220 --> 00:49:24,352 - When my kids were born, 950 00:49:26,049 --> 00:49:27,529 I just looked at them 951 00:49:27,659 --> 00:49:28,486 and I couldn't understand how a person could 952 00:49:38,583 --> 00:49:39,323 Yeah, I just couldn't understand how a person could 953 00:49:39,454 --> 00:49:40,629 abandon their kids. 954 00:49:42,370 --> 00:49:44,111 I guess we've all got a choice in life, 955 00:49:44,241 --> 00:49:46,591 whether we replay the same type that our parents had. 956 00:49:48,506 --> 00:49:51,031 My parents pretty much chose to abandon their family 957 00:49:52,162 --> 00:49:53,250 I was determined not to do that. 958 00:49:57,602 --> 00:50:00,866 - I was unable to hold my first baby by myself, 959 00:50:02,607 --> 00:50:04,783 and midwives were getting a little bit anxious. 960 00:50:06,176 --> 00:50:09,005 "Come on, you need to be able to hold your baby." 961 00:50:09,136 --> 00:50:11,399 And I said, "Yes I know, I know that intellectually, 962 00:50:11,529 --> 00:50:13,618 but I'm trying to get my head around it. 963 00:50:13,749 --> 00:50:17,187 The first two or three weeks were so arduous. 964 00:50:17,318 --> 00:50:18,623 so incredibly difficult. 965 00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:21,844 But I finally managed to call my dad and say, 966 00:50:23,715 --> 00:50:25,543 "I've finally connected, 967 00:50:25,674 --> 00:50:27,197 we have finally connected. 968 00:50:32,681 --> 00:50:35,031 - It was very difficult trying to 969 00:50:35,162 --> 00:50:37,425 work out how to be a parent. 970 00:50:37,555 --> 00:50:38,774 I do remember one time going well 971 00:50:38,904 --> 00:50:40,210 I can't hit you across the room, 972 00:50:40,341 --> 00:50:41,733 I can't deny your food for days, 973 00:50:41,864 --> 00:50:43,344 how do I get you to do what I want. 974 00:50:43,474 --> 00:50:45,302 What do people do? 975 00:50:48,958 --> 00:50:53,354 I started explaining when Kaia was six 976 00:50:53,484 --> 00:50:56,096 that her mommy had been hurt by some bad people 977 00:50:56,226 --> 00:50:58,185 I put it that simply. 978 00:50:58,315 --> 00:51:00,578 We bumbled along. I explained a lot, 979 00:51:00,709 --> 00:51:02,145 I processed a lot with her. 980 00:51:03,799 --> 00:51:05,192 I knew I'd never 981 00:51:06,497 --> 00:51:08,108 do what had been done to me. 982 00:51:09,457 --> 00:51:12,199 I did stop that chain of abuse. 983 00:51:14,114 --> 00:51:16,072 - [Ben] Here's my mom with her grandkids 984 00:51:16,203 --> 00:51:18,640 - Well Ben although it was all those years ago, 985 00:51:18,770 --> 00:51:22,252 It's no different, I can't believe it, coming back here. 986 00:51:22,383 --> 00:51:25,255 - I have a relationship with my mother that 987 00:51:25,386 --> 00:51:27,301 is to the level of honesty that she wants 988 00:51:27,431 --> 00:51:29,390 and it's very painful for her. 989 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,567 She said, "Look the decisions I made at the time 990 00:51:32,697 --> 00:51:34,177 were the best ones I had with the information, 991 00:51:34,308 --> 00:51:35,222 I would not make them again." 992 00:51:35,352 --> 00:51:37,485 That's probably as close as 993 00:51:37,615 --> 00:51:38,834 we're ever going to get to her saying 994 00:51:38,964 --> 00:51:40,314 "I stuffed up and I'm sorry." 995 00:51:42,359 --> 00:51:44,448 My kids, at least should have the option 996 00:51:44,579 --> 00:51:45,841 of having a grandmother. 997 00:51:47,234 --> 00:51:50,454 Everyone deserves the chance of redemption. 998 00:51:50,585 --> 00:51:53,240 When you forgive someone, you set yourself free, 999 00:51:54,589 --> 00:51:55,764 and you set them free. 1000 00:51:59,420 --> 00:52:02,727 - Mom retired nursing at 80 years of age, 1001 00:52:02,858 --> 00:52:06,383 she was doing Night Duty to pay this house off for me. 1002 00:52:06,514 --> 00:52:08,255 So I cared for her until she died. 1003 00:52:12,824 --> 00:52:14,609 When mom died, things changed. 1004 00:52:14,739 --> 00:52:19,440 I have no loyalty now to anyone in The Family. 1005 00:52:33,323 --> 00:52:36,065 I'm so nervous about it all 1006 00:52:36,196 --> 00:52:37,893 petrified as well. 1007 00:52:39,111 --> 00:52:41,418 But excited beyond belief. 1008 00:52:41,549 --> 00:52:42,854 I've got something to live for. 1009 00:52:42,985 --> 00:52:45,944 I've got family and they all want to know me. 1010 00:52:46,075 --> 00:52:48,338 [cool music] 1011 00:52:59,262 --> 00:53:01,917 Hello Adam.. How are you? 1012 00:53:02,047 --> 00:53:04,528 Really.. 1013 00:53:04,659 --> 00:53:06,051 - [laughing] Nervous? 1014 00:53:06,182 --> 00:53:08,140 - Yeah 1015 00:53:14,059 --> 00:53:16,018 - [laughing] I could hardly speak myself today 1016 00:53:20,675 --> 00:53:22,590 - Hello I'm Wendy your definitely family, you look like us 1017 00:53:30,337 --> 00:53:33,165 - Do you want to see some photos? 1018 00:53:34,254 --> 00:53:35,167 Your mother. 1019 00:53:38,345 --> 00:53:40,869 [cool music] 1020 00:53:45,743 --> 00:53:46,962 - And there she is pushing a pram. 1021 00:53:47,092 --> 00:53:48,398 Somebody's kid in the pram. 1022 00:53:51,401 --> 00:53:52,837 - Every baby wants his mom and 1023 00:53:55,362 --> 00:53:56,885 I never had a proper mom. 1024 00:54:00,454 --> 00:54:03,195 The outpouring of love is quite overwhelming. 1025 00:54:05,850 --> 00:54:08,113 I guess I've never had that level of love before 1026 00:54:08,244 --> 00:54:09,811 from strangers. 1027 00:54:09,941 --> 00:54:12,204 And in reality, they are strangers 1028 00:54:12,335 --> 00:54:14,685 that are just loving me for who I am 1029 00:54:14,816 --> 00:54:16,208 and they don't know much about me. 1030 00:54:19,429 --> 00:54:21,257 And I don't know much about them, 1031 00:54:21,388 --> 00:54:23,041 but there's a bond, 1032 00:54:23,172 --> 00:54:25,087 deeper than I've ever really experienced before. 1033 00:54:39,580 --> 00:54:41,408 - [Interviewer] So much of the Hamilton-Byrne saga 1034 00:54:41,538 --> 00:54:43,453 is shrouded in mystery. 1035 00:54:43,584 --> 00:54:47,109 So I thought we try and separate rumour from fact, 1036 00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:48,589 truth from fiction. 1037 00:54:50,286 --> 00:54:51,853 How many are your natural children? 1038 00:54:51,983 --> 00:54:54,116 - [Anne] Altogether was eight I think, 1039 00:54:54,246 --> 00:54:55,944 they were eight or nine 1040 00:54:56,074 --> 00:54:56,771 You got eight this morning when we were counting them out 1041 00:54:56,901 --> 00:54:57,989 weren't we? 1042 00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,817 - [Bill] It was almost like 1043 00:54:59,948 --> 00:55:01,384 cheaper by the dozen, you know, 1044 00:55:01,515 --> 00:55:03,125 - [Anne] We never told them they weren't ours. 1045 00:55:06,998 --> 00:55:07,912 - [Interviewer] I don't know where 1046 00:55:08,043 --> 00:55:10,567 you put the blame for this but 1047 00:55:10,698 --> 00:55:11,829 - [Anne] I'd do it all over again. 1048 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,266 Well, question really was, 1049 00:55:14,397 --> 00:55:15,659 it hasn't worked has it? 1050 00:55:15,790 --> 00:55:16,530 Your family has dissipated, hasn't it? 1051 00:55:16,660 --> 00:55:16,965 - [Bill] Yes, but why? 1052 00:55:19,402 --> 00:55:20,490 Well, that's what I was gonna ask you, why? 1053 00:55:20,621 --> 00:55:21,752 And who do you blame? 1054 00:55:21,883 --> 00:55:23,188 - [Anne] I can't blame anybody. 1055 00:55:23,319 --> 00:55:24,494 I wouldn't blame anybody. 1056 00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:27,279 We don't understand. 1057 00:55:27,410 --> 00:55:29,064 I don't understand. 1058 00:55:29,194 --> 00:55:30,413 It was love. 1059 00:55:30,544 --> 00:55:31,283 Just love 1060 00:55:33,198 --> 00:55:35,636 [intense music]