1 00:00:18,713 --> 00:00:20,367 [tense music] 2 00:00:20,454 --> 00:00:23,327 - [Interviewer] Why did you, start to take in the children? 3 00:00:23,457 --> 00:00:25,807 - [Anne] Over 21 years, 28 young people 4 00:00:25,894 --> 00:00:27,635 went through our hands. 5 00:00:27,766 --> 00:00:28,680 - [Interviewer] Why did you do it? 6 00:00:28,767 --> 00:00:29,463 - I love children. 7 00:00:31,857 --> 00:00:33,250 - [Sarah] Once she became the leader of the cult, 8 00:00:33,380 --> 00:00:35,339 and could get whatever she wanted, 9 00:00:35,469 --> 00:00:36,862 one thing that she wanted was, 10 00:00:36,992 --> 00:00:39,169 lots of little children. 11 00:00:39,299 --> 00:00:40,735 - [Roland] She was preparing us for, 12 00:00:40,866 --> 00:00:44,043 when the time happens, to re-educate the world, 13 00:00:44,174 --> 00:00:46,089 what's left of it. 14 00:00:46,219 --> 00:00:47,699 - [Interviewer] How many are your natural children? 15 00:00:47,786 --> 00:00:48,961 - [Anne] There were eight or nine. 16 00:00:49,048 --> 00:00:51,181 We never told them they weren't ours. 17 00:00:51,311 --> 00:00:54,793 - We were all children who had no identity whatsoever. 18 00:00:54,923 --> 00:00:56,273 - They were stolen children. 19 00:00:56,403 --> 00:00:59,102 Phoney adoptions that were organised by sect members. 20 00:00:59,232 --> 00:01:00,277 - I'm wondering if you got any comment 21 00:01:00,407 --> 00:01:01,930 to make now about the children? 22 00:01:02,061 --> 00:01:03,845 [static scratching] 23 00:01:03,976 --> 00:01:06,021 - [Robert MacLellan ] Shots are being fired through windows. 24 00:01:06,109 --> 00:01:07,893 Car tyres have been slashed. 25 00:01:08,023 --> 00:01:09,373 There are death threats. 26 00:01:09,460 --> 00:01:11,766 - Auntie Anne sucked, as much money out of people 27 00:01:11,897 --> 00:01:13,594 as she possibly could. 28 00:01:13,725 --> 00:01:14,856 - [Reporter] Yesterday, seven members 29 00:01:14,987 --> 00:01:16,510 of Anne Hamilton-Byrne's sect, 30 00:01:16,641 --> 00:01:18,599 pleaded guilty of defrauding the Commonwealth. 31 00:01:18,730 --> 00:01:22,255 - I know that Muktananda practiced black magic. 32 00:01:22,386 --> 00:01:26,303 That's why Anne was there - to learn more about it. 33 00:01:26,433 --> 00:01:27,913 - [Lex] There were so many bizarre stories 34 00:01:28,043 --> 00:01:30,002 about who she was. 35 00:01:30,133 --> 00:01:31,046 - [Roland] I didn't even know 36 00:01:31,177 --> 00:01:32,135 that Auntie Anne had another name. 37 00:01:34,006 --> 00:01:35,094 [dramatic music] 38 00:01:35,268 --> 00:01:38,010 ♪ Waiting for redemption ♪ 39 00:01:38,097 --> 00:01:42,101 ♪ Like a dog expecting a reward ♪ 40 00:01:42,275 --> 00:01:46,540 ♪ Is this the endless board of nothing ♪ 41 00:01:46,714 --> 00:01:51,502 ♪ Or the coming of the Lord ♪ 42 00:01:51,676 --> 00:01:56,115 ♪ Come on, give me a sign ♪ 43 00:01:56,202 --> 00:02:00,685 ♪ Show me my love is real ♪ 44 00:02:00,859 --> 00:02:05,037 ♪ All safe in another town ♪ 45 00:02:05,211 --> 00:02:09,868 ♪ Is this part of the deal ♪ 46 00:02:17,571 --> 00:02:21,053 - [Leeanne] When I ran away I felt a lot of grief, 47 00:02:21,184 --> 00:02:23,490 and a lot of heartache and a lot of guilt 48 00:02:23,621 --> 00:02:25,666 for leaving the kids in that situation. 49 00:02:28,103 --> 00:02:30,193 I actually went in with the police 50 00:02:30,323 --> 00:02:31,977 when the raid happened so that the children realised 51 00:02:32,107 --> 00:02:33,021 that it was okay. 52 00:02:33,152 --> 00:02:35,285 [door banging] 53 00:02:35,415 --> 00:02:36,547 I remember my heart pumping the whole time and thinking, 54 00:02:36,677 --> 00:02:40,203 "God, how are the children going to look at me?" 55 00:02:40,333 --> 00:02:41,987 - [Small Child] They're takiing us somewhere! 56 00:02:42,074 --> 00:02:44,511 It'll break Mom and Dad's heart. 57 00:02:44,642 --> 00:02:45,164 - [Anouree] We were ushered out quite quickly 58 00:02:45,295 --> 00:02:45,904 out of the house, 59 00:02:47,775 --> 00:02:51,388 and up to the bus, at the end of the our driveway. 60 00:02:52,519 --> 00:02:54,478 - [Ben] Then it's all go, we're being driven away. 61 00:02:54,608 --> 00:02:57,307 And I remember as we go down the road, 62 00:02:57,437 --> 00:02:58,743 I think it began to dawn on me, 63 00:03:00,092 --> 00:03:01,789 this was actually the end of it. 64 00:03:03,748 --> 00:03:06,011 I was going to do everything I could to never go back. 65 00:03:07,273 --> 00:03:09,057 - [Announcer] At the weekend, six children were seized 66 00:03:09,188 --> 00:03:11,103 from a property owned by The Family. 67 00:03:11,234 --> 00:03:12,017 Five of the children appeared 68 00:03:12,147 --> 00:03:13,236 in the Melbourne Children's Court 69 00:03:13,366 --> 00:03:15,716 under care and protection applications. 70 00:03:15,803 --> 00:03:18,241 [dramatic music] 71 00:03:21,853 --> 00:03:24,595 [suspenseful music] 72 00:03:28,773 --> 00:03:31,341 - [Bryan Cussen] Perhaps a week after they had been rescued 73 00:03:31,471 --> 00:03:32,733 from Lake Eildon, I went to Allambie to meet the children. 74 00:03:38,130 --> 00:03:39,914 I remember walking into the room, 75 00:03:40,045 --> 00:03:41,699 and there was just this enormous buzz. 76 00:03:44,745 --> 00:03:47,095 It was as if the children were birds 77 00:03:47,226 --> 00:03:49,054 that had been freed from an iron cage. 78 00:03:49,184 --> 00:03:51,535 They were just totally in flight. 79 00:03:52,971 --> 00:03:56,061 [children chattering] 80 00:03:57,323 --> 00:03:58,933 - I remember things like being able to do the dishes, 81 00:03:59,020 --> 00:04:01,458 and this was exciting and wonderful. 82 00:04:01,588 --> 00:04:02,720 Being able to go and get food whenever I want to. 83 00:04:02,850 --> 00:04:04,983 Being able to learn to ride a bike. 84 00:04:05,070 --> 00:04:06,245 - How we'd all have dinner together and laugh, 85 00:04:06,332 --> 00:04:09,814 and lots of food, and watch TV. 86 00:04:10,902 --> 00:04:12,033 - They said you can eat as much as you want. 87 00:04:13,905 --> 00:04:15,341 Well, I said, "My stomach is only a certain size." 88 00:04:15,428 --> 00:04:17,387 [laughs] 89 00:04:18,431 --> 00:04:20,172 [children chattering] 90 00:04:20,303 --> 00:04:22,522 - There were a team of people working with the children. 91 00:04:22,609 --> 00:04:26,352 Police, medical people, and myself as a counsellor. 92 00:04:28,572 --> 00:04:31,488 I was asked to work with those 10 children 93 00:04:31,575 --> 00:04:32,184 to identify who they really were, because 94 00:04:32,315 --> 00:04:34,882 they've grown up believing 95 00:04:35,013 --> 00:04:36,144 that they were all the children 96 00:04:36,275 --> 00:04:38,321 of Anne Hamilton-Byrne and Bill Hamilton-Byrne. 97 00:04:38,451 --> 00:04:40,671 [cars whirring] 98 00:04:40,801 --> 00:04:45,023 They were barbecues and outings, and trips to Luna Park. 99 00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:47,721 We reached out to the children from our hearts. 100 00:04:48,853 --> 00:04:52,552 But as I sat down one-to-one with the children, 101 00:04:52,639 --> 00:04:56,600 I realised that there was some pretty dark stuff 102 00:04:56,730 --> 00:04:57,731 that they were dealing with. 103 00:05:00,647 --> 00:05:02,083 - [Ben ] All that you've known, is suddenly removed, 104 00:05:02,214 --> 00:05:04,172 and you're looking for a foundation. 105 00:05:04,303 --> 00:05:05,870 You're looking for things that are familiar. 106 00:05:05,957 --> 00:05:10,178 You're trying to find things that are solid. 107 00:05:10,309 --> 00:05:11,354 - [Charlotte] Trust was a big issue. 108 00:05:13,138 --> 00:05:14,661 Could we really trust these policemen 109 00:05:14,792 --> 00:05:17,925 and these other people that we've never seen 110 00:05:18,056 --> 00:05:19,100 before in our lives, 111 00:05:19,231 --> 00:05:20,450 that they were going to look after us, 112 00:05:20,580 --> 00:05:25,019 and make Eildon go away, make Anne and Bill go away, 113 00:05:25,106 --> 00:05:27,239 make the Aunties go away? 114 00:05:30,590 --> 00:05:33,376 - They'd grown up with a perverse fairy tale. 115 00:05:34,855 --> 00:05:36,944 They had been systematically deprived 116 00:05:37,075 --> 00:05:39,686 of the truth for their entire lives. 117 00:05:39,817 --> 00:05:42,036 [tense music] 118 00:05:46,998 --> 00:05:51,089 It was quite a tangled web of birth certificates, 119 00:05:51,219 --> 00:05:54,701 deed poll name changes, and affidavits in regard 120 00:05:54,832 --> 00:05:56,747 to adoption that I had to sort through. 121 00:05:59,053 --> 00:06:01,316 Once I had the records gathered together, 122 00:06:01,447 --> 00:06:05,973 I then went back and sat down individually with the child. 123 00:06:08,411 --> 00:06:11,109 - [Leeanne] I was absolutely devastated that I wasn't 124 00:06:11,239 --> 00:06:13,416 who I thought I was. 125 00:06:13,546 --> 00:06:15,853 I was very devastated by the betrayal, I think. 126 00:06:17,637 --> 00:06:19,030 [birds chirping] 127 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:20,597 - [Sarah] I went down to the births and deaths, 128 00:06:20,727 --> 00:06:23,600 and asked, "Can I please have the birth certificate 129 00:06:23,687 --> 00:06:25,036 of Sarah Hamilton-Byrne?" 130 00:06:25,166 --> 00:06:26,951 And I got back this piece of paper saying, 131 00:06:27,081 --> 00:06:29,475 there is no such person as Sarah Hamilton-Byrne. 132 00:06:31,129 --> 00:06:33,566 And then I thought, oh, okay. 133 00:06:33,697 --> 00:06:36,526 "Well, who am I?" 134 00:06:36,613 --> 00:06:40,138 [dramatic music] 135 00:06:40,268 --> 00:06:42,619 - [Lex] The only way that we could at that point in time, 136 00:06:42,749 --> 00:06:45,491 establish the true identity of the children, 137 00:06:45,622 --> 00:06:48,625 of these young people, was to try and locate 138 00:06:48,755 --> 00:06:51,671 their natural mother and natural father, 139 00:06:53,194 --> 00:06:54,761 and then take blood samples. 140 00:06:57,372 --> 00:06:59,853 It was one of the first times in Victoria, 141 00:06:59,984 --> 00:07:02,377 where DNA was used to match blood to prove parentage. 142 00:07:03,553 --> 00:07:05,859 [soft music] 143 00:07:13,432 --> 00:07:16,479 Just imagine saying to somebody, fancy saying to woman, 144 00:07:16,609 --> 00:07:18,176 "Do you remember giving birth?" 145 00:07:18,306 --> 00:07:22,876 "Do you remember that in this year, particular year, 146 00:07:24,008 --> 00:07:25,618 did you give birth?" 147 00:07:25,749 --> 00:07:27,054 [knock on the door] 148 00:07:27,185 --> 00:07:28,839 Straight away you're bringing up, in some cases, 149 00:07:28,969 --> 00:07:30,014 some traumatic memories. 150 00:07:31,842 --> 00:07:34,758 And then trying to track down the father. 151 00:07:35,976 --> 00:07:37,412 And then saying to this guy, 152 00:07:37,543 --> 00:07:39,763 "I think you've got a child." 153 00:07:39,893 --> 00:07:41,112 "What?" 154 00:07:41,242 --> 00:07:41,852 Bang. 155 00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:46,030 It didn't leave a very nice taste in your mouth, 156 00:07:46,117 --> 00:07:47,248 but you had to do it. 157 00:07:47,379 --> 00:07:49,903 [dramatic music] 158 00:07:54,429 --> 00:07:57,128 [keyboard tapping] 159 00:08:01,654 --> 00:08:05,484 In the 70s we didn't talk about unmarried mothers. 160 00:08:06,485 --> 00:08:10,968 Young girls, 16, 17, who fell pregnant, 161 00:08:11,098 --> 00:08:12,796 often weren't seen for months on end. 162 00:08:14,101 --> 00:08:15,320 And then they would appear back 163 00:08:15,450 --> 00:08:17,017 in their normal lives and communities. 164 00:08:19,019 --> 00:08:21,152 And they would've gone through their pregnancy. 165 00:08:21,282 --> 00:08:23,154 No one knew that they had given birth. 166 00:08:24,677 --> 00:08:26,070 But the child had been passed over. 167 00:08:27,985 --> 00:08:30,074 [women chattering] 168 00:08:30,161 --> 00:08:32,990 - When women went to the hospital then, if they were single, 169 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,296 and they go for their first appointment, 170 00:08:35,427 --> 00:08:37,081 their card was marked with an "A", 171 00:08:37,211 --> 00:08:39,083 which meant they were to see the Almoner, 172 00:08:39,213 --> 00:08:41,041 who was the social worker. 173 00:08:41,172 --> 00:08:43,522 And from that moment on, the assumption was 174 00:08:43,653 --> 00:08:45,393 that the child was available for adoption. 175 00:08:47,395 --> 00:08:51,878 If they tried during that time to question 176 00:08:52,009 --> 00:08:54,446 the notion of adoption, they were shut down. 177 00:08:54,577 --> 00:08:56,404 They were basically told that, 178 00:08:56,535 --> 00:08:58,189 "There's no way you can keep this child." 179 00:09:00,278 --> 00:09:01,888 - [Sarah] In the late 60s, there wasn't supporting 180 00:09:02,019 --> 00:09:05,762 mothers pension and things like that. 181 00:09:05,892 --> 00:09:07,807 And particularly if you came from a religious family, 182 00:09:07,938 --> 00:09:10,375 it was still a great shame to have a kid out of wedlock. 183 00:09:12,290 --> 00:09:16,990 My biological mother was made to sign an adoption form. 184 00:09:18,339 --> 00:09:22,169 And then during my birth, a pillow was put over her head. 185 00:09:22,256 --> 00:09:25,129 She was given made tranquilisers. 186 00:09:25,259 --> 00:09:29,089 And as soon I was born, I was taken away instantly. 187 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:32,092 She wasn't even allowed to look at me. 188 00:09:32,223 --> 00:09:33,833 [baby crying] 189 00:09:33,964 --> 00:09:36,923 - Most mothers who talk about this say something like, 190 00:09:37,054 --> 00:09:40,057 "I heard a cry, then I heard a door slam." 191 00:09:40,187 --> 00:09:42,581 And that's the child being taken out. 192 00:09:42,712 --> 00:09:44,801 The idea was, if you see the child, 193 00:09:44,931 --> 00:09:47,455 it'll be even harder to part with them. 194 00:09:47,586 --> 00:09:48,892 [footsteps tapping] 195 00:09:49,022 --> 00:09:50,067 - [Archival Narrator] This couple have been waiting 196 00:09:50,197 --> 00:09:53,157 11 months to adopt a baby boy. 197 00:09:53,287 --> 00:09:54,811 Today is the first time they will see him. 198 00:09:57,596 --> 00:09:59,685 Now they must wait patiently for the fulfilment 199 00:09:59,816 --> 00:10:02,209 of the 30-day consent period. 200 00:10:02,340 --> 00:10:03,558 If the mother of the baby, 201 00:10:03,689 --> 00:10:05,560 decides to revoke her decision, 202 00:10:05,691 --> 00:10:07,911 this couple would have to give him up. 203 00:10:08,041 --> 00:10:10,696 But this distressing situation rarely happens. 204 00:10:12,350 --> 00:10:15,527 This little illegitimate bundle, will become legitimised. 205 00:10:17,007 --> 00:10:18,530 By adoption, this child will escape 206 00:10:18,661 --> 00:10:20,793 the handicap of its birth. 207 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,447 His real mother will almost certainly 208 00:10:22,577 --> 00:10:24,928 never set eyes on him again. 209 00:10:25,058 --> 00:10:26,843 And with all the love he can expect from his new parents, 210 00:10:26,973 --> 00:10:29,149 he may never feel the loss. 211 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,848 In this case, one woman's loss could turn out 212 00:10:31,978 --> 00:10:34,807 to be somebody else's gain. 213 00:10:34,938 --> 00:10:37,201 [car whirring] 214 00:10:39,464 --> 00:10:39,899 [Interviewer] John Mackay, was one of those who 215 00:10:40,030 --> 00:10:41,248 adopted a child 216 00:10:42,336 --> 00:10:45,165 and let Anne Hamilton-Byrne, look after him. 217 00:10:45,252 --> 00:10:48,995 - Anne and Bill wanted to construct a family, 218 00:10:49,126 --> 00:10:52,085 of these children, to rear them as a family. 219 00:10:52,172 --> 00:10:56,176 I think for very good psychological reasons. 220 00:10:56,307 --> 00:10:59,179 They've been able to provide a stable environment 221 00:10:59,310 --> 00:11:01,007 with a lot of love. 222 00:11:01,094 --> 00:11:02,487 - [Interviewer] Something that you weren't able to do? 223 00:11:02,574 --> 00:11:04,141 - That's true, I wasn't able. 224 00:11:04,228 --> 00:11:06,447 - I wanted to ask him if he knew, 225 00:11:06,578 --> 00:11:08,493 after he handed that child over, 226 00:11:08,623 --> 00:11:10,060 what had happened to that child? 227 00:11:10,190 --> 00:11:12,889 The brutality it experienced. 228 00:11:13,019 --> 00:11:14,412 Marie Mohr's my name, Dr Mackay. 229 00:11:14,499 --> 00:11:16,457 I'm wondering if you've got any comment to make now 230 00:11:16,588 --> 00:11:17,763 about happened to the children? 231 00:11:17,894 --> 00:11:18,938 Why won't you have... 232 00:11:19,025 --> 00:11:20,331 [static scratching] 233 00:11:20,461 --> 00:11:21,549 Is that all you've got to say, Dr Mackay? 234 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:22,986 After what you put those kids through. 235 00:11:24,770 --> 00:11:26,250 There's no need for that, Dr. Mackay. 236 00:11:29,949 --> 00:11:30,994 - [Reporter] You raised them under the name, 237 00:11:31,081 --> 00:11:32,343 Hamilton-Byrne? 238 00:11:32,473 --> 00:11:35,172 You arranged for passports in that name? 239 00:11:35,302 --> 00:11:37,130 - We did. 240 00:11:37,217 --> 00:11:39,219 - [Reporter] Even though that was not their legal name? 241 00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:41,395 - Well, yes, but we did it honourably we thought. 242 00:11:41,482 --> 00:11:42,222 Quite honourably. 243 00:11:42,353 --> 00:11:43,267 - [Reporter] Why? 244 00:11:43,397 --> 00:11:44,921 What was the purpose of it? 245 00:11:45,051 --> 00:11:46,966 - Because it's easier, if you're going overseas, 246 00:11:47,097 --> 00:11:49,577 into England, to get treatment for the children, 247 00:11:49,708 --> 00:11:51,275 when it's all in one family. 248 00:11:51,405 --> 00:11:53,016 If they are in one family. 249 00:11:53,146 --> 00:11:54,365 - [Bill] We wanted them to be a family. 250 00:11:54,495 --> 00:11:55,192 - You see? 251 00:11:55,279 --> 00:11:56,236 - A loved family. 252 00:11:56,367 --> 00:11:58,586 [rewind play] 253 00:11:58,717 --> 00:12:00,023 - If they are in one family. 254 00:12:00,110 --> 00:12:01,894 - We wanted to be a family. 255 00:12:02,025 --> 00:12:02,721 - You see? 256 00:12:02,852 --> 00:12:03,548 - A loved family. 257 00:12:03,678 --> 00:12:05,115 [dramatic music] 258 00:12:05,245 --> 00:12:07,117 - [Lex] When you're investigating a crime, 259 00:12:07,247 --> 00:12:08,422 you've got to keep an open mind. 260 00:12:10,816 --> 00:12:14,167 But as the investigation went on, 261 00:12:14,298 --> 00:12:18,432 in my mind she was becoming more clinical, more cold. 262 00:12:20,478 --> 00:12:22,959 It was about Anne, and no one else. 263 00:12:23,046 --> 00:12:25,265 [tense music] 264 00:12:27,311 --> 00:12:30,575 There were so many bizarre stories about who she was. 265 00:12:30,705 --> 00:12:32,446 We had to drill down and get the facts. 266 00:12:34,187 --> 00:12:36,146 That's part of the chase, 267 00:12:36,276 --> 00:12:38,452 establishing "Who am I actually dealing with?" 268 00:12:40,498 --> 00:12:42,065 - Well, I didn't know anything about her background 269 00:12:42,195 --> 00:12:44,632 until the late 80s when all the 270 00:12:44,763 --> 00:12:47,331 news reports started coming out. 271 00:12:47,461 --> 00:12:50,638 I didn't even know that Auntie Anne had another name. 272 00:12:50,769 --> 00:12:52,771 I think it was Evelyn or something, wasn't it? 273 00:12:56,166 --> 00:12:59,909 - [Leeanne] She told us that she came from some royal family. 274 00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:01,432 [laughs] 275 00:13:01,562 --> 00:13:02,999 - We, as children, thought she was beyond 276 00:13:03,086 --> 00:13:04,391 the Queen of England. 277 00:13:04,522 --> 00:13:06,698 She'd even spent time with the Queen, 278 00:13:06,829 --> 00:13:08,656 having cups of tea. 279 00:13:08,743 --> 00:13:10,833 - She was a singer, she was an opera singer. 280 00:13:10,963 --> 00:13:12,835 - [Rebecca] We had a castle somewhere in Europe, 281 00:13:12,922 --> 00:13:15,272 and you know, quite la-di-da, really. 282 00:13:16,316 --> 00:13:19,667 Anne was the direct, she was Jesus incarnate, 283 00:13:19,754 --> 00:13:21,017 the descendant of God. 284 00:13:21,147 --> 00:13:23,454 And we were, descended from the House of David, 285 00:13:23,584 --> 00:13:25,848 which apparently was Jesus' bloodline. 286 00:13:27,371 --> 00:13:29,852 [tense music] 287 00:13:39,165 --> 00:13:41,211 - When we were older, and we actually found out 288 00:13:41,341 --> 00:13:44,301 that she was a railway yard worker's daughter. 289 00:13:45,476 --> 00:13:47,739 And her mother was a mental patient in a hospital. 290 00:13:49,045 --> 00:13:50,698 It was really quite a sad story. 291 00:13:53,049 --> 00:13:54,485 I think that she was trying to portray 292 00:13:54,615 --> 00:13:57,749 this perfect life, and this perfect family, 293 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:58,968 something that she didn't have. 294 00:14:03,146 --> 00:14:05,975 - [Sarah] The father was absent a lot of the time. 295 00:14:06,105 --> 00:14:09,369 Anne was placed in Brighton Orphanage a couple of times. 296 00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:12,111 She came from an extremely impoverished background, 297 00:14:12,198 --> 00:14:14,592 and she was put into a very rich suburb 298 00:14:14,722 --> 00:14:17,334 where she could sort of see, very privileged children 299 00:14:17,464 --> 00:14:21,033 walking past to their private schools. 300 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,732 And I think she had fantasies that she'd get that somehow. 301 00:14:24,863 --> 00:14:27,344 [tense music] 302 00:14:29,172 --> 00:14:30,521 - [Lex] One thing you learn as a detective, 303 00:14:30,651 --> 00:14:32,479 is that official documents don't lie. 304 00:14:34,655 --> 00:14:36,309 We turned to the service record 305 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,269 of Anne's first husband, Lionel Harris, who was a corporal 306 00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:42,533 in the Australian Air Force, for information. 307 00:14:42,663 --> 00:14:44,839 [tense music] 308 00:14:55,241 --> 00:14:57,722 We discovered that two years after Judith was born, 309 00:14:57,809 --> 00:14:59,811 Lionel applied to leave the air force, 310 00:14:59,898 --> 00:15:02,118 because he was worried about his wife's mental health. 311 00:15:04,033 --> 00:15:06,426 He said, she was very abnormal to her child, 312 00:15:06,557 --> 00:15:08,211 and her behaviour was very strange. 313 00:15:10,865 --> 00:15:12,824 In the only official diagnosis we have, 314 00:15:12,955 --> 00:15:14,391 of Evelyn's mental health, 315 00:15:14,478 --> 00:15:16,045 her doctor described her as depressed, 316 00:15:16,132 --> 00:15:17,089 and neglecting Judith. 317 00:15:19,700 --> 00:15:22,834 He feared, she'd inherited her mother's mental instability, 318 00:15:22,965 --> 00:15:23,922 and may give way. 319 00:15:24,923 --> 00:15:27,404 [tense music] 320 00:15:37,109 --> 00:15:39,851 Two years later, Lionel is a car salesman 321 00:15:39,982 --> 00:15:41,331 And they have moved to Sydney. 322 00:15:46,989 --> 00:15:49,687 [cars whirring] 323 00:15:52,907 --> 00:15:54,126 [brakes screeching] 324 00:15:54,257 --> 00:15:56,868 [crash banging] 325 00:15:58,739 --> 00:16:01,046 [sombre music] 326 00:16:14,494 --> 00:16:18,281 In 1955, a single woman couldn't adopt a child. 327 00:16:18,411 --> 00:16:21,240 It seemed that Evelyn's dreams of a larger family were over. 328 00:16:34,514 --> 00:16:36,038 But Evelyn didn't give up. 329 00:16:40,085 --> 00:16:42,914 She had cosmetic surgery and elocution lessons, 330 00:16:43,045 --> 00:16:45,047 and she changed her name. 331 00:16:45,177 --> 00:16:48,702 A new person, Anne, emerged from the tragedy. 332 00:16:50,661 --> 00:16:52,184 - [Sarah] Once she became the leader of a cult, 333 00:16:52,315 --> 00:16:54,491 and could get whatever she wanted, 334 00:16:54,621 --> 00:16:57,276 one thing that she wanted was lots of little children. 335 00:16:57,407 --> 00:16:59,409 Lots of little perfect little children, 336 00:16:59,539 --> 00:17:00,497 in perfect little dresses, 337 00:17:00,627 --> 00:17:01,846 with perfect little blonde hair. 338 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,111 - I made her pregnancy clothes. 339 00:17:07,982 --> 00:17:09,201 - [Lex] Tell us about her pregnancy clothes. 340 00:17:09,332 --> 00:17:10,028 - Yes. 341 00:17:10,159 --> 00:17:10,855 - [Lex] Do tell. 342 00:17:10,985 --> 00:17:12,248 - Yes, all right. 343 00:17:16,208 --> 00:17:18,210 I can actually draw it if you've got a piece of paper, 344 00:17:18,341 --> 00:17:18,950 I'll draw you 345 00:17:19,081 --> 00:17:19,951 - Just explain to me. 346 00:17:23,215 --> 00:17:26,218 Yeah, well it went on a yoke, very full sleeves. 347 00:17:26,349 --> 00:17:29,352 I made hundreds of them for years. 348 00:17:30,657 --> 00:17:31,354 - [Lex] How many pregnancies do you think 349 00:17:31,484 --> 00:17:33,399 she would have gone through? 350 00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:34,966 - Well, it seemed to go on for years, Lex. 351 00:17:35,097 --> 00:17:36,881 That I was making these clothes. 352 00:17:37,011 --> 00:17:38,317 - [Lex] Why? 353 00:17:38,404 --> 00:17:40,276 - She seemed to be pregnant all the time. 354 00:17:40,406 --> 00:17:41,886 Just one after the other, 355 00:17:42,016 --> 00:17:44,758 plus she had the triplets, she told me. 356 00:17:45,846 --> 00:17:47,892 - [Lex] Did you ever see her actually pregnant? 357 00:17:48,022 --> 00:17:50,068 - [Margaret] I never felt her stomach. 358 00:17:51,243 --> 00:17:53,115 - Anne told me one night that three of the children 359 00:17:53,245 --> 00:17:55,856 were her triplets, that she'd had them. 360 00:17:55,987 --> 00:17:57,902 She just looked me straight in the face and said, 361 00:17:57,989 --> 00:17:59,295 "I had these three children." 362 00:17:59,382 --> 00:18:03,212 I'm thinking, "You didn't have those three children. 363 00:18:03,342 --> 00:18:05,083 "You must think I'm a bloody idiot to tell me that." 364 00:18:05,214 --> 00:18:07,041 [laughs] 365 00:18:07,172 --> 00:18:08,739 But I just said, "Oh, yes, okay." 366 00:18:08,869 --> 00:18:10,393 Agreed with her. 367 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,438 She's not somebody you argue with. 368 00:18:12,525 --> 00:18:15,311 [dramatic music] 369 00:18:15,441 --> 00:18:17,530 - Anne Hamilton-Byrne's age, 370 00:18:17,661 --> 00:18:19,402 meant they couldn't be her children. 371 00:18:20,316 --> 00:18:22,100 She'd had a hysterectomy years before 372 00:18:22,187 --> 00:18:24,755 some of these children were born. 373 00:18:24,885 --> 00:18:27,932 It wasn't difficult for people that actually questioned it. 374 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,285 - [Ben] The truth is, we weren't their children. 375 00:18:35,679 --> 00:18:38,725 So while they created that construct, we weren't. 376 00:18:42,425 --> 00:18:45,210 [children laughing] 377 00:18:45,341 --> 00:18:47,952 - We were all children who had no identity whatsoever. 378 00:18:49,388 --> 00:18:51,216 Didn't know our own parents, really. 379 00:18:54,088 --> 00:18:58,658 Our identities were carved out by one person, 380 00:18:58,789 --> 00:19:00,356 to suit them. 381 00:19:02,096 --> 00:19:03,837 My dad was Bill's son. 382 00:19:06,144 --> 00:19:08,842 So that obviously, Bill was not my father, 383 00:19:08,973 --> 00:19:09,887 but my grandfather. 384 00:19:11,410 --> 00:19:13,978 My mother and father met in Newhaven, 385 00:19:14,108 --> 00:19:16,720 which is a mental institution. 386 00:19:16,807 --> 00:19:19,810 Dad could see that he was unable to look after me. 387 00:19:19,940 --> 00:19:23,814 And of course Bill said, he would be able to. 388 00:19:23,944 --> 00:19:26,556 [sombre music] 389 00:19:28,601 --> 00:19:30,995 - I feel so, so sorry for my dad, 390 00:19:32,997 --> 00:19:35,260 because he really didn't have a choice in the matter. 391 00:19:38,394 --> 00:19:41,353 - [Michael] They had been looking after Anouree, 392 00:19:41,484 --> 00:19:44,791 because Treena had become pretty unstable. 393 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:52,146 They put a bit of paper in front of her to sign. 394 00:19:52,277 --> 00:19:53,931 - [Interviewer] Who was the guardianship to go to, Anne? 395 00:19:54,061 --> 00:19:56,499 - [Michael] Dad and Anne. 396 00:19:56,629 --> 00:19:58,979 At the time I can remember thinking, 397 00:20:00,590 --> 00:20:02,809 "She couldn't be in a better place." 398 00:20:04,681 --> 00:20:06,900 [sombre music] 399 00:20:10,643 --> 00:20:12,689 - [Peter Spence] Most of the time in my career, 400 00:20:12,819 --> 00:20:14,908 I actually didn't take stuff home with me, 401 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:16,736 but this case I did. 402 00:20:18,129 --> 00:20:21,132 My wife actually became very involved with the kids as well. 403 00:20:21,263 --> 00:20:25,789 It's almost like they become part of your family, I guess. 404 00:20:29,967 --> 00:20:32,012 - I remember as a 15 year old, 405 00:20:32,099 --> 00:20:35,146 the surreal experience of knowing Anne wasn't my mother. 406 00:20:35,277 --> 00:20:36,887 And then who was? 407 00:20:38,802 --> 00:20:40,064 They speak of winning the lotto, 408 00:20:41,239 --> 00:20:42,588 think of the exact opposite. 409 00:20:44,198 --> 00:20:45,199 It was Auntie Joy. 410 00:20:52,990 --> 00:20:53,773 Yeah, it wasn't good. 411 00:20:56,602 --> 00:21:00,258 She said, "Listen, you're an embarrassment to me, 412 00:21:00,389 --> 00:21:02,042 don't bother turning up on the door, 413 00:21:02,173 --> 00:21:03,435 I'll close the door in your face." 414 00:21:03,566 --> 00:21:06,960 So that terminated any possibility 415 00:21:07,091 --> 00:21:10,660 of a mother/son relationship very quickly. 416 00:21:10,790 --> 00:21:12,923 - Are you a follower of Mrs Hamilton-Byrne's? 417 00:21:13,053 --> 00:21:14,664 - I'm a friend of Mrs Hamilton-Byrne. 418 00:21:14,794 --> 00:21:16,361 - Do you believe she's a teacher? 419 00:21:16,492 --> 00:21:17,884 - I believe that she is just 420 00:21:18,015 --> 00:21:19,973 a great friend of mine, all right? 421 00:21:20,104 --> 00:21:23,063 - I was adopted legally by Trish and Don Webb. 422 00:21:23,194 --> 00:21:24,151 And then once they got me, 423 00:21:24,282 --> 00:21:26,197 they handed me over to Anne. 424 00:21:26,328 --> 00:21:28,112 And I know for a fact that my mother actually 425 00:21:28,242 --> 00:21:30,810 started looking for me when she married my stepfather. 426 00:21:30,941 --> 00:21:33,291 So she'd been looking for me probably a year 427 00:21:33,378 --> 00:21:35,162 after I had been adopted out. 428 00:21:36,033 --> 00:21:39,428 And she tells me that it was like, 429 00:21:39,558 --> 00:21:40,777 that something was missing. 430 00:21:44,346 --> 00:21:47,740 - At the birth, we've got a doctor who's a sect member, 431 00:21:47,871 --> 00:21:50,352 a midwife that's a sect member, 432 00:21:50,482 --> 00:21:53,050 a social worker that's a sect member, 433 00:21:53,180 --> 00:21:54,573 and the head of the sect, 434 00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:55,748 standing outside the hospital. 435 00:21:57,707 --> 00:22:00,013 And within a period of 15 to 20 minutes from birth, 436 00:22:00,144 --> 00:22:01,928 child born, child taken. 437 00:22:04,975 --> 00:22:06,193 [baby crying] 438 00:22:06,324 --> 00:22:08,413 - I was born at Royal Women's Hospital. 439 00:22:08,544 --> 00:22:11,329 And Auntie Anne had all the people working there. 440 00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:13,723 That's how she obtained some of us kids. 441 00:22:15,855 --> 00:22:16,813 I was just handed over. 442 00:22:19,076 --> 00:22:22,340 I'm sure my mom was coerced to give me up, 443 00:22:22,427 --> 00:22:25,082 and I don't believe that she really wanted to. 444 00:22:25,212 --> 00:22:27,911 'Cause why else would you revoke the adoption three times? 445 00:22:29,042 --> 00:22:31,044 And then they can't find me. 446 00:22:31,175 --> 00:22:33,482 The legal system goes, "Where is this baby?" 447 00:22:35,919 --> 00:22:38,617 - I mean, I knew Roland wasn't my biological brother. 448 00:22:39,705 --> 00:22:42,578 I was told that Roland was to be presented 449 00:22:42,708 --> 00:22:46,059 as the child of Don Webb and Elizabeth Whitaker. 450 00:22:47,017 --> 00:22:49,280 And I was also told at the very outset 451 00:22:49,411 --> 00:22:52,414 that if Roland ever discovered that he was adopted, 452 00:22:52,544 --> 00:22:53,545 he would kill himself. 453 00:22:55,808 --> 00:22:57,288 And I guess I believed that. 454 00:22:57,419 --> 00:22:59,072 So I was was very, very careful. 455 00:22:59,203 --> 00:23:01,423 Never, ever, ever to tell Roland he was adopted. 456 00:23:05,122 --> 00:23:08,734 - Lex de Man gave me the option to leave The Family, 457 00:23:10,170 --> 00:23:12,956 for me to become award of the state. 458 00:23:13,086 --> 00:23:15,567 So, I had to make a decision then and there, 459 00:23:16,699 --> 00:23:18,222 what I wanted to do. 460 00:23:19,441 --> 00:23:22,008 And I had to make the decision to stick with my family. 461 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,100 Because I couldn't see a future, being taken away. 462 00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:31,453 My loyalty was with my mom and dad, and Auntie Anne, 463 00:23:31,583 --> 00:23:33,106 and that was very strong. 464 00:23:34,891 --> 00:23:37,154 [tense music] 465 00:23:39,983 --> 00:23:42,159 - Roland wasn't the only child we were worried about. 466 00:23:43,856 --> 00:23:45,118 Anne and her followers had bought up 467 00:23:45,205 --> 00:23:46,816 a lot of the houses in Ferny Creek. 468 00:23:48,818 --> 00:23:50,733 Many of them had swapped partners 469 00:23:50,863 --> 00:23:53,692 so they were living with children who weren't their own. 470 00:23:55,389 --> 00:23:57,304 There were allegations of rampant drug use, 471 00:23:57,435 --> 00:23:58,305 and harsh discipline. 472 00:24:04,094 --> 00:24:05,965 - My mother gave birth to me at 16, 473 00:24:08,272 --> 00:24:11,014 so, you've got one child looking after a baby 474 00:24:11,101 --> 00:24:14,713 with absolutely no support from her own family. 475 00:24:16,149 --> 00:24:17,324 [birds chirping] 476 00:24:17,455 --> 00:24:19,979 Going forwards to 1970, 477 00:24:20,110 --> 00:24:23,853 my mother had married one of the cult members. 478 00:24:23,983 --> 00:24:27,073 I came home from school one day, I was about 10. 479 00:24:28,988 --> 00:24:32,383 My mother was almost in a coma, I couldn't rouse her, 480 00:24:32,514 --> 00:24:33,950 and I became very concerned. 481 00:24:35,778 --> 00:24:37,257 I called the neighbours. 482 00:24:37,388 --> 00:24:40,478 And then, Elizabeth Whitaker was sent up. 483 00:24:40,609 --> 00:24:43,829 Elizabeth Whitaker was a registered nurse, 484 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,962 one of Anne Hamilton-Byrne's lieutenants. 485 00:24:51,097 --> 00:24:55,188 I was told, that my mother had been put in hospital. 486 00:24:55,275 --> 00:24:57,930 And, it may be some time before I see her. 487 00:25:00,585 --> 00:25:04,937 Elizabeth, presented as a very friendly, caring woman. 488 00:25:06,896 --> 00:25:09,638 She said, "Oh, look, you can come and stay with me." 489 00:25:11,074 --> 00:25:13,772 [keyboard tapping] 490 00:25:18,864 --> 00:25:21,214 I was just told, "Well, she's a bit unwell, 491 00:25:21,345 --> 00:25:24,217 and she's not a very good mother, 492 00:25:24,348 --> 00:25:27,307 and look, you've got all those lovely people here, 493 00:25:27,438 --> 00:25:29,135 all those aunties, and uncles, 494 00:25:29,266 --> 00:25:31,050 and their nurses and doctors. 495 00:25:31,137 --> 00:25:32,835 They'll look after you, you'll be fine." 496 00:25:34,793 --> 00:25:36,099 [birds chirping] 497 00:25:36,229 --> 00:25:39,363 About a year after that, round about 1971 498 00:25:40,538 --> 00:25:44,150 [name bleeped] pulled me aside one day and he said, 499 00:25:44,237 --> 00:25:47,632 "I'm going to give you a healing on the weekend." 500 00:25:48,938 --> 00:25:50,722 And he said, "I'm going to put a scarf around your head. 501 00:25:50,853 --> 00:25:53,420 I'm going to give you psilocybin, 502 00:25:53,551 --> 00:25:55,858 and you're going to see pretty colours." 503 00:25:58,991 --> 00:26:00,950 Then I was in a completely different world. 504 00:26:02,255 --> 00:26:04,867 [suspenseful music] 505 00:26:04,954 --> 00:26:07,478 I felt pressure on my chest, and I felt hands on me, 506 00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:13,527 down towards my genital area, then around the back. 507 00:26:14,790 --> 00:26:17,967 For the next few days I've had bleeding from my anus, 508 00:26:18,054 --> 00:26:19,882 and I had a lot of pain round that area. 509 00:26:22,014 --> 00:26:25,235 I know that he sexually assaulted me 510 00:26:25,365 --> 00:26:28,107 in some way, form, or shape. 511 00:26:28,238 --> 00:26:30,893 [keyboard tapping] 512 00:26:36,725 --> 00:26:39,466 - I don't think at first anyone in the authorities 513 00:26:39,553 --> 00:26:42,295 realised the complexities of the sect. 514 00:26:42,426 --> 00:26:45,864 And so, they thought they were perhaps dealing with 515 00:26:45,995 --> 00:26:49,651 a child abuse case, and they were. 516 00:26:49,738 --> 00:26:52,741 But I don't think they realised the layers underneath that. 517 00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:57,441 [water splashing] 518 00:27:00,096 --> 00:27:02,707 - I really don't believe anyone knew what to do. 519 00:27:06,929 --> 00:27:09,322 This was the first time they had a group of 520 00:27:09,453 --> 00:27:11,673 x number of kids coming out of a completely 521 00:27:11,803 --> 00:27:13,022 controlled environment, 522 00:27:13,152 --> 00:27:14,632 and trying to interface them into the world. 523 00:27:14,763 --> 00:27:17,026 [dogs barking] 524 00:27:18,897 --> 00:27:21,334 - [Marie] We took the girls back to their prison. 525 00:27:21,465 --> 00:27:24,033 For them it brought back memories of terror. 526 00:27:24,163 --> 00:27:25,382 - When we'd be naughty, 527 00:27:25,469 --> 00:27:26,557 they'd lock us in the shed for the night. 528 00:27:26,644 --> 00:27:27,645 - [Marie] The night? 529 00:27:27,776 --> 00:27:29,125 - [Kids] Yeah. 530 00:27:29,255 --> 00:27:30,082 - Well, the police knew I knew a lot, 531 00:27:30,213 --> 00:27:32,519 so they wanted to pick my brains. 532 00:27:33,782 --> 00:27:36,306 Because by then, I'd done dozens of stories on the sect. 533 00:27:36,436 --> 00:27:37,829 I spent a lot of time with the kids. 534 00:27:39,439 --> 00:27:42,878 They became visitors to my house. 535 00:27:42,965 --> 00:27:44,793 Some of them lived with us for years. 536 00:27:47,230 --> 00:27:49,667 I do remember one of my bosses saying to me at one stage, 537 00:27:49,798 --> 00:27:52,452 "Are you a social worker or a journalist?" 538 00:27:52,583 --> 00:27:53,845 And I said, "Well, at the moment 539 00:27:53,932 --> 00:27:54,977 it seems I'm a bit of both." 540 00:27:55,978 --> 00:27:58,197 [tense music] 541 00:27:58,328 --> 00:28:00,373 - For years I had believed that there was no escape. 542 00:28:00,460 --> 00:28:01,635 I had been brought up to fear and expect 543 00:28:01,766 --> 00:28:03,681 the worst of the outside world. 544 00:28:05,117 --> 00:28:07,859 I had been taught that police 545 00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:08,686 and other outsiders would hurt us. 546 00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:12,908 And that men would want to rape us. 547 00:28:13,038 --> 00:28:14,823 - Well, when I ran away it was very difficult, 548 00:28:14,953 --> 00:28:16,999 because we weren't taught anything about the outside world. 549 00:28:17,129 --> 00:28:18,740 I didn't even know how to cross a road. 550 00:28:20,742 --> 00:28:21,917 I remember going to the bank, 551 00:28:22,047 --> 00:28:23,745 and asking them if I could borrow $50, 552 00:28:23,875 --> 00:28:25,921 to go and buy clothes. 553 00:28:26,051 --> 00:28:28,619 So, I mean they must have thought I was really weird. 554 00:28:30,099 --> 00:28:31,230 - I was made award of the State and 555 00:28:31,317 --> 00:28:32,884 I struggled, 556 00:28:33,015 --> 00:28:35,757 Failed HSC, got a job, got sacked from it. 557 00:28:35,887 --> 00:28:38,803 I'd been quite suicidal, very depressed. 558 00:28:38,934 --> 00:28:40,370 I was starved of love. 559 00:28:42,198 --> 00:28:45,157 You open doors to things, in pursuit of that love. 560 00:28:45,244 --> 00:28:46,898 I had to be very careful, 561 00:28:47,029 --> 00:28:48,770 that I didn't fall into another cult. 562 00:28:51,903 --> 00:28:53,513 - I was in and out of a psych unit, 563 00:28:53,644 --> 00:28:54,776 because I wanted to kill myself. 564 00:28:56,603 --> 00:28:57,866 And sometimes the anger was so deep, 565 00:28:57,996 --> 00:28:59,868 I'd be - you're standing up, 566 00:28:59,998 --> 00:29:01,260 and you're storming around the house going, 567 00:29:01,347 --> 00:29:02,958 "I can't calm down, I can't calm down." 568 00:29:03,088 --> 00:29:04,829 Because I just didn't know. 569 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,178 And you'd stop and you'd. 570 00:29:06,309 --> 00:29:06,962 [yelling] 571 00:29:07,092 --> 00:29:07,789 at the floor. 572 00:29:07,919 --> 00:29:09,878 You know, you just... 573 00:29:09,965 --> 00:29:12,228 I can't actually articulate the strength of it. 574 00:29:14,273 --> 00:29:15,361 - I feel as though Anne and the other members 575 00:29:15,492 --> 00:29:16,972 of the sect stole my childhood. 576 00:29:18,974 --> 00:29:21,628 I resent not being allowed to go to a normal school, 577 00:29:21,759 --> 00:29:24,109 and not being allowed to form normal relationships. 578 00:29:25,676 --> 00:29:26,895 - Do you want to stop for a while? 579 00:29:27,025 --> 00:29:29,811 Or do you want to keep trying to go? 580 00:29:29,898 --> 00:29:31,116 - I'll keep going. 581 00:29:33,597 --> 00:29:36,382 [keyboard tapping] 582 00:29:40,909 --> 00:29:45,043 - You could see, they wanted something done 583 00:29:45,130 --> 00:29:46,653 about what had happened to them. 584 00:29:46,784 --> 00:29:50,570 But, you didn't really want to expose them to 585 00:29:52,659 --> 00:29:55,880 the pressures and the trauma of having to relive all that 586 00:29:55,967 --> 00:29:57,708 and give evidence in a witness box. 587 00:30:00,363 --> 00:30:02,931 - The black three cornered cane was one of the most feared. 588 00:30:03,061 --> 00:30:06,064 - You couldn't hear those stories without it affecting you, 589 00:30:06,195 --> 00:30:07,979 if you had any heart at all. 590 00:30:09,198 --> 00:30:12,114 And that's why the police, did become so involved. 591 00:30:12,244 --> 00:30:13,855 They wanted justice for those children. 592 00:30:16,379 --> 00:30:16,814 - [Anne's voice] We've been blown up all over the place 593 00:30:16,945 --> 00:30:18,207 the place now. 594 00:30:18,294 --> 00:30:20,252 You think about it, you've got enough brains 595 00:30:20,383 --> 00:30:21,906 those of you who are left. 596 00:30:22,037 --> 00:30:25,083 Every rebuff is a challenge. 597 00:30:25,214 --> 00:30:27,607 So I'm saying to you, go forward. 598 00:30:30,219 --> 00:30:31,742 All the powers of darkness, rise up, 599 00:30:31,873 --> 00:30:33,135 and try to overwhelm us. 600 00:30:33,222 --> 00:30:36,703 But, I have done my best and I'm still there. 601 00:30:36,834 --> 00:30:40,925 Those who are devoted to me, realise this, 602 00:30:41,012 --> 00:30:43,014 and they are united with me. 603 00:30:43,145 --> 00:30:45,799 Many retreat back into their darkness. 604 00:30:45,930 --> 00:30:47,105 And that's what's happened, 605 00:30:47,236 --> 00:30:48,672 to those who have left. 606 00:30:48,802 --> 00:30:51,283 Self-interest, doesn't make you seek. 607 00:30:51,414 --> 00:30:53,024 No, I'm not half nuts.... 608 00:30:53,155 --> 00:30:55,461 - We knew that she had committed crimes. 609 00:30:55,592 --> 00:30:58,725 We knew that, we needed to get her back in this country. 610 00:30:58,856 --> 00:31:00,510 We knew that we had to get her before a court, 611 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,816 for everyone involved in this sect to see, 612 00:31:02,904 --> 00:31:04,253 that no one is above the law. 613 00:31:05,515 --> 00:31:06,864 [dramatic music] 614 00:31:06,995 --> 00:31:09,084 - Mum, just was blindly, 615 00:31:09,214 --> 00:31:11,651 following everything that she said and did. 616 00:31:13,697 --> 00:31:15,829 She met Albert Baker. 617 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,703 He was another sect member, and she ended up marrying him. 618 00:31:19,833 --> 00:31:23,054 [women chattering] 619 00:31:23,185 --> 00:31:24,795 It was really a bigamous marriage, 620 00:31:24,926 --> 00:31:27,624 because she was actually still married to my father. 621 00:31:29,626 --> 00:31:32,194 - [Bill] Albert! smile you're on camera now. 622 00:31:34,413 --> 00:31:36,502 I think that's enough of that. 623 00:31:36,633 --> 00:31:38,809 - How did Anne Hamilton Byrne, 624 00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:42,900 come to have control over the lives of nearly 30 children? 625 00:31:42,987 --> 00:31:44,249 Well, she could never have done it 626 00:31:44,336 --> 00:31:47,687 without the grownup members of her so-called Family. 627 00:31:47,774 --> 00:31:48,993 This report, from Marie Mohr. 628 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,040 - [{Marie]} Photographer, Alan Crisp, 629 00:31:52,127 --> 00:31:54,607 a sect member for over a decade. 630 00:31:54,738 --> 00:31:56,131 "Is Anne still your guru? 631 00:31:56,261 --> 00:31:58,960 Even though, you know the children were locked away now. 632 00:31:59,090 --> 00:32:00,526 Is she still your guru Alan?" 633 00:32:00,613 --> 00:32:01,310 - Get lost Marie. 634 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:02,920 Get bloody lost. 635 00:32:03,051 --> 00:32:05,140 Other members include general practitioners, 636 00:32:05,270 --> 00:32:08,447 Dr Christine Fleming and Dr John McKay. 637 00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:13,975 - She targeted the people that she wanted. 638 00:32:14,105 --> 00:32:17,065 And the people that she wanted, had either money 639 00:32:17,152 --> 00:32:19,763 or had expectations of money. 640 00:32:19,893 --> 00:32:21,025 Everyone had a job. 641 00:32:21,112 --> 00:32:22,766 But then they came home, 642 00:32:22,896 --> 00:32:26,030 and then she had tasks for them to do. 643 00:32:26,161 --> 00:32:29,207 And people were working, you know, 16 hours a day. 644 00:32:29,338 --> 00:32:32,906 And working, and working, and overworking 645 00:32:32,994 --> 00:32:35,257 to the point of exhaustion. 646 00:32:35,344 --> 00:32:39,043 And nothing was ever quite right or never enough. 647 00:32:40,131 --> 00:32:43,091 Pretty much standard brainwashing technique. 648 00:32:45,006 --> 00:32:46,746 [Reporter] Yesterday, seven members of Anne Hamilton 649 00:32:46,833 --> 00:32:49,575 Byrne's sect, pleaded guilty of defrauding the Commonwealth 650 00:32:49,662 --> 00:32:51,708 over total of $195,000. 651 00:32:53,492 --> 00:32:54,189 - No comment. 652 00:32:54,276 --> 00:32:55,451 - No comment. 653 00:32:55,581 --> 00:32:57,192 - [Reporter] The three of those women, 654 00:32:57,322 --> 00:33:01,065 Helen Buchanan, Elizabeth Whitaker, and Margot Maclellan 655 00:33:01,196 --> 00:33:03,720 were among the women Anne Hamilton-Byrne ordered 656 00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:06,070 to look after the children locked away on the sect's 657 00:33:06,157 --> 00:33:07,202 Lake Eildon property. 658 00:33:09,117 --> 00:33:10,857 Mum had done a lot of illegal stuff with Auntie Anne, 659 00:33:10,988 --> 00:33:13,425 or for Auntie Anne. 660 00:33:14,861 --> 00:33:17,908 She was charged and put in prison for Social Security fraud. 661 00:33:18,039 --> 00:33:19,910 She was pissed off about it. 662 00:33:20,041 --> 00:33:21,390 But, Auntie Anne was her guru. 663 00:33:22,956 --> 00:33:25,437 So she stood by her thick and thin. 664 00:33:25,568 --> 00:33:28,397 [suspenseful music] 665 00:33:28,484 --> 00:33:30,877 Auntie Anne sucked as much money out of people 666 00:33:31,008 --> 00:33:33,010 as she possibly could. 667 00:33:33,141 --> 00:33:36,318 Anybody who joined The Family, had to pay dues. 668 00:33:36,448 --> 00:33:37,971 Money to go and do the meditation, 669 00:33:38,102 --> 00:33:39,756 money to go and do the yoga, 670 00:33:39,886 --> 00:33:45,066 money to fund this, money to fund that, you know. 671 00:33:46,458 --> 00:33:48,112 Auntie Anne very rarely put her own hands in her own pocket. 672 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,073 [suspenseful music] 673 00:33:54,988 --> 00:33:55,946 - We estimated Anne's wealth 674 00:33:56,077 --> 00:33:57,861 to be around $50 million. 675 00:33:59,254 --> 00:34:02,039 To be a member of the sect, you had to donate part of your 676 00:34:02,170 --> 00:34:04,694 wages to Anne, and that included the Aunties 677 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,960 They actually had to pay Anne the privilege 678 00:34:12,267 --> 00:34:13,616 of caring for the children, 679 00:34:13,746 --> 00:34:15,444 socalled 'caring' for the children at Eildon. 680 00:34:18,186 --> 00:34:19,970 Anne was ambitious. 681 00:34:20,101 --> 00:34:22,190 She wanted to expand the cult. 682 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,844 So she bought several properties in Australia, and England, 683 00:34:24,975 --> 00:34:26,629 and also near Hurleyville, 684 00:34:26,716 --> 00:34:29,153 A town in the Catskill Mountains in upstate New York. 685 00:34:35,464 --> 00:34:37,074 - [{Narrator]} This is Swami Muktananda, 686 00:34:37,205 --> 00:34:38,989 the head of a multimillion dollar empire, 687 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,991 and described by his followers as 688 00:34:41,078 --> 00:34:43,124 one of the most significant figures in contemporary, 689 00:34:43,254 --> 00:34:45,082 spiritual life. 690 00:34:45,213 --> 00:34:46,997 Based in India, he travels the world 691 00:34:47,128 --> 00:34:50,174 recruiting adherents, showing people the way. 692 00:34:50,305 --> 00:34:54,483 - [Joan] In the seventies, there were quite a few yogis, 693 00:34:54,613 --> 00:34:59,401 coming over to the West, and attaining a lot of 694 00:35:00,184 --> 00:35:02,882 money, and fame, and power. 695 00:35:03,013 --> 00:35:04,971 But he was one of the biggest. 696 00:35:05,102 --> 00:35:08,018 I mean, he was followed by a lot of celebrities. 697 00:35:08,149 --> 00:35:11,935 There were ashrams and centres, all over the world. 698 00:35:12,065 --> 00:35:14,459 Thousands and thousands of devotees. 699 00:35:15,895 --> 00:35:18,376 While I was on tour with Muktananda, 700 00:35:18,507 --> 00:35:22,772 Anne Hamilton-Byrne showed up. 701 00:35:22,902 --> 00:35:25,427 [dramatic music] 702 00:35:27,429 --> 00:35:30,954 She had her whole entourage with her, 703 00:35:31,084 --> 00:35:35,698 of these small children, with dyed blonde hair, 704 00:35:37,178 --> 00:35:37,917 and identical bows in their hair. 705 00:35:39,310 --> 00:35:41,138 She was like this spider, 706 00:35:41,269 --> 00:35:42,531 [laughs] 707 00:35:42,661 --> 00:35:44,228 with all these little baby spiders. 708 00:35:44,359 --> 00:35:47,275 It was one of the strangest things I've ever seen. 709 00:35:47,405 --> 00:35:49,320 [laughs] 710 00:35:49,407 --> 00:35:50,626 She had a lot of money. 711 00:35:50,713 --> 00:35:51,888 I don't know where she got it. 712 00:35:52,018 --> 00:35:54,891 But she bought a property very near the Ashram. 713 00:35:55,021 --> 00:35:56,849 And they would come stay there. 714 00:36:00,592 --> 00:36:02,594 - We'd go to the Ashram, every afternoon. 715 00:36:02,725 --> 00:36:04,248 So Anne could show us off to, 716 00:36:04,379 --> 00:36:06,076 the Swami Muktananda clan, 717 00:36:07,033 --> 00:36:09,471 in order that perhaps, 718 00:36:09,558 --> 00:36:12,517 one or two of them at least would transfer over to her cult. 719 00:36:12,648 --> 00:36:13,518 - She was jealous. 720 00:36:13,605 --> 00:36:15,390 I mean, she was the Messiah. 721 00:36:16,739 --> 00:36:20,960 She should be followed by, all these many beautiful people! 722 00:36:21,744 --> 00:36:24,007 But I got this sense, that, 723 00:36:24,137 --> 00:36:28,577 Anne was there to get power from Muktananda. 724 00:36:28,664 --> 00:36:31,841 And Muktananda was there,to show up Anne. 725 00:36:33,408 --> 00:36:37,238 He gave her the name, Ma Yoga Shakti. 726 00:36:37,368 --> 00:36:40,241 Ma Yoga Shakti means "the great mother Shakti". 727 00:36:42,765 --> 00:36:44,767 I mean, it was like he was making a joke out of her. 728 00:36:46,072 --> 00:36:48,161 People would sit in meditation, 729 00:36:48,292 --> 00:36:49,641 and he'd go around, and either swat you with 730 00:36:49,772 --> 00:36:51,600 this big peacock feather wand. 731 00:36:54,167 --> 00:36:56,866 He was practising all these ancient techniques. 732 00:36:56,996 --> 00:36:59,085 That if you do them enough times, 733 00:36:59,216 --> 00:37:02,698 you actually attained powers to take over someone. 734 00:37:05,744 --> 00:37:10,836 I know that Muktananda, practised black magic. 735 00:37:12,185 --> 00:37:15,058 I believe that that's why Anne was there to be around him, 736 00:37:15,188 --> 00:37:16,494 and to learn more about it. 737 00:37:19,541 --> 00:37:22,674 - [Leeanne] Anne told everybody that she had certain powers. 738 00:37:22,805 --> 00:37:25,851 She would put a curse on people, if they did anything wrong, 739 00:37:25,982 --> 00:37:28,071 or something that she didn't like. 740 00:37:28,201 --> 00:37:29,899 She used to have these little blocks of ice, 741 00:37:30,029 --> 00:37:32,902 where she'd put people's names in the freezer. 742 00:37:33,032 --> 00:37:35,296 Any of the police that were involved in trying to help us, 743 00:37:35,426 --> 00:37:37,080 she would put their names in the ice. 744 00:37:40,344 --> 00:37:41,432 - [{Police]} And what would happen if their names 745 00:37:41,563 --> 00:37:42,781 were in the ice? 746 00:37:42,912 --> 00:37:43,869 - She would do something evil to them, 747 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,654 and they would suddenly fall sick. 748 00:37:45,784 --> 00:37:47,917 The only person that could saved them would be her. 749 00:37:51,181 --> 00:37:52,965 - [{Anne's voice]} The fact is, that the enormous 750 00:37:53,096 --> 00:37:55,925 majority of people, do not want this knowledge. 751 00:37:57,579 --> 00:38:01,452 The fact is, they would like to see me dead 752 00:38:02,453 --> 00:38:04,107 - Anne cursed me because I betrayed her. 753 00:38:06,022 --> 00:38:09,112 Betrayed the cult motto of unseen, unheard, unknown. 754 00:38:09,242 --> 00:38:12,724 And dared to tell the police what was happening 755 00:38:12,855 --> 00:38:14,726 to the other children. 756 00:38:14,857 --> 00:38:19,122 And once I betrayed her, I was the Judas. 757 00:38:19,252 --> 00:38:22,995 Every Messiah has to have a Judas, I guess 758 00:38:23,126 --> 00:38:24,127 - What effect would that have a curse on you? 759 00:38:24,257 --> 00:38:24,867 - I thought I going to die because 760 00:38:24,997 --> 00:38:26,259 I'd done the statement. 761 00:38:27,826 --> 00:38:30,263 - How did you believe you'd die? 762 00:38:32,004 --> 00:38:33,484 By what means? 763 00:38:33,615 --> 00:38:37,270 I don't know. I just knew I was going to. 764 00:38:37,358 --> 00:38:40,361 Because you can't betray your master and expect to live. 765 00:38:43,233 --> 00:38:47,193 - A young man dared to criticise, and disagree with Anne. 766 00:38:47,324 --> 00:38:49,892 She says, "You've turned away from the light. 767 00:38:53,112 --> 00:38:54,636 You are going to die of a heart attack." 768 00:38:56,638 --> 00:38:57,856 So what did he do? 769 00:38:57,987 --> 00:39:00,685 He went home and had a heart attack. 770 00:39:00,816 --> 00:39:03,340 [dramatic music] 771 00:39:14,743 --> 00:39:17,049 No one thought they were going off worshipping the devil. 772 00:39:19,051 --> 00:39:23,360 People have been used to thinking of evil as being ugly 773 00:39:23,491 --> 00:39:24,970 whereas it's not. 774 00:39:25,101 --> 00:39:26,102 It looks beautiful. 775 00:39:26,232 --> 00:39:30,019 It can use everything, even love, 776 00:39:30,106 --> 00:39:32,674 to get it's own way to get power. 777 00:39:32,804 --> 00:39:34,415 - [{Bill]} That's beautiful. 778 00:39:34,545 --> 00:39:35,894 Now that's really beautiful. 779 00:39:36,025 --> 00:39:37,461 Right, honey? 780 00:39:37,592 --> 00:39:39,071 - Beautiful boys. 781 00:39:39,202 --> 00:39:39,942 - [{Bill]} Stay like that for awhile. 782 00:39:40,072 --> 00:39:41,552 It's beautiful. 783 00:39:41,683 --> 00:39:42,684 - [{Margaret]} She was lovely to me, and kind. 784 00:39:42,814 --> 00:39:45,295 Something that my mother would never be, you know? 785 00:39:45,426 --> 00:39:46,644 - [{Police]} Who was this? 786 00:39:46,775 --> 00:39:48,254 - [{Margaret]} Anne. 787 00:39:48,385 --> 00:39:51,867 - [Anne] Beautiful boys for the children- oh how lovely. 788 00:39:51,997 --> 00:39:56,654 - I'd never had so much love poured on me, really, you know. 789 00:39:56,785 --> 00:39:58,003 Because I was an incest child, 790 00:39:58,134 --> 00:40:01,224 and I just had never experienced love. 791 00:40:03,356 --> 00:40:05,054 - She wasn't giving love. 792 00:40:05,184 --> 00:40:09,188 She was offering it, and then taking it back. 793 00:40:09,275 --> 00:40:12,104 That's how she made those poor Aunties. 794 00:40:12,235 --> 00:40:15,281 At Eildon, do these appalling things to children. 795 00:40:15,412 --> 00:40:16,587 She broke their spirit. 796 00:40:18,371 --> 00:40:20,678 [sombre music] 797 00:40:26,989 --> 00:40:28,207 - Sometimes she'd look at you, 798 00:40:28,338 --> 00:40:29,774 and you thought she really loved you. 799 00:40:29,905 --> 00:40:31,646 I don't know. 800 00:40:31,776 --> 00:40:33,909 It's hard to say just how devoted we were to her, 801 00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:36,694 and how much we hung off every look. 802 00:40:36,825 --> 00:40:38,087 And every thought she had about us. 803 00:40:38,217 --> 00:40:40,481 We wanted so much for her to love us. 804 00:40:40,611 --> 00:40:41,786 But I don't think she ever really did. 805 00:40:41,917 --> 00:40:44,267 [chuckles] 806 00:40:44,354 --> 00:40:48,663 - I took it on myself, to talk to one of the psychiatrists 807 00:40:48,793 --> 00:40:50,447 who'd dropped out of the group. 808 00:40:50,578 --> 00:40:52,841 And I said, "What would you say Anne is, 809 00:40:52,971 --> 00:40:54,799 medically speaking?" 810 00:40:54,930 --> 00:40:56,627 And he said, "Well, she's a psychopath." 811 00:40:59,064 --> 00:41:03,416 She was intuitively, diabolically, 812 00:41:03,504 --> 00:41:06,419 able to see into people. 813 00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:08,987 [dramatic music] 814 00:41:11,207 --> 00:41:12,600 - [{Lex]} In the 1950s and 60s, 815 00:41:12,730 --> 00:41:14,993 medical and military circles were experimenting 816 00:41:15,124 --> 00:41:17,256 with LSD as a truth drug. 817 00:41:18,910 --> 00:41:20,912 Even the CIA and the KGB were involved. 818 00:41:22,697 --> 00:41:24,786 Psychiatrists in The Family would have told Anne 819 00:41:24,873 --> 00:41:27,484 about its potential, to dig deep into the minds 820 00:41:27,615 --> 00:41:28,398 of her followers. 821 00:41:31,532 --> 00:41:34,926 [dramatic music] 822 00:41:35,013 --> 00:41:38,234 - She found out everything. 823 00:41:38,364 --> 00:41:39,322 People under the drug, 824 00:41:39,409 --> 00:41:41,890 went back to their childhood, 825 00:41:42,020 --> 00:41:44,196 they told all their secrets, good and bad. 826 00:41:44,327 --> 00:41:46,982 - She would gather all that information, 827 00:41:47,112 --> 00:41:49,724 and use it later to destroy people's 828 00:41:49,854 --> 00:41:51,290 marriages and relationships. 829 00:41:51,421 --> 00:41:53,989 I'm not aware of any marriage that survived that Family. 830 00:41:59,211 --> 00:42:00,256 - [{Sarah]} The LSD was like an interrogation, 831 00:42:00,386 --> 00:42:02,911 which was always trying to get down to something, 832 00:42:03,041 --> 00:42:05,304 usually sexual or shameful. 833 00:42:06,523 --> 00:42:10,353 - My whole life changed in 1984. 834 00:42:10,483 --> 00:42:12,007 I changed personality. 835 00:42:15,576 --> 00:42:18,927 Became a different person, got initiated. 836 00:42:19,057 --> 00:42:21,451 I went over to England in September, October, 1984. 837 00:42:25,107 --> 00:42:28,763 I was put to bed up, in the guestroom upstairs at Broom. 838 00:42:28,893 --> 00:42:30,112 And then Anne gives you the LSD. 839 00:42:34,290 --> 00:42:36,074 And I was put under LSD, 840 00:42:38,076 --> 00:42:40,426 for a very long period of time. 841 00:42:40,513 --> 00:42:43,691 I think it was, a couple of weeks at least. 842 00:42:45,562 --> 00:42:49,044 - What makes you think it was a couple of weeks? 843 00:42:52,047 --> 00:42:54,179 [dramatic music] 844 00:42:54,266 --> 00:42:55,006 - You know, I could kind of tell the 845 00:42:55,093 --> 00:42:57,095 days and nights going past, 846 00:42:57,226 --> 00:43:00,838 because of the clutter of the noise underneath, 847 00:43:00,969 --> 00:43:01,970 as they prepared food. 848 00:43:03,928 --> 00:43:05,626 She'd just come in like every 12 hours or so. 849 00:43:05,756 --> 00:43:06,888 And give me another piece, 850 00:43:07,018 --> 00:43:08,324 cause I wasn't working hard enough. 851 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,112 - She had asked questions about your sexual thoughts, 852 00:43:14,243 --> 00:43:16,245 your sexual desires, your sexual fantasies, 853 00:43:16,375 --> 00:43:17,507 what you liked, what you didn't like. 854 00:43:17,594 --> 00:43:19,422 Whether you were breastfed, 855 00:43:19,509 --> 00:43:20,641 whether you weren't breastfed, 856 00:43:20,771 --> 00:43:22,033 whether you were really homosexual, 857 00:43:22,164 --> 00:43:23,121 or whether you weren't. 858 00:43:25,863 --> 00:43:28,561 - We've been involved with Muktananda that, 859 00:43:28,649 --> 00:43:29,998 for a few years prior to that. 860 00:43:30,128 --> 00:43:34,263 And I was very attracted to him personally as a guru, 861 00:43:34,393 --> 00:43:38,615 And she really, really, really wanted me to deny him, 862 00:43:38,746 --> 00:43:40,922 and accept her as the living Christ. 863 00:43:41,052 --> 00:43:43,141 She really hammered me on it. 864 00:43:43,272 --> 00:43:47,842 Either to break me or she wanted me to be hers. 865 00:43:49,452 --> 00:43:52,281 - I was just out of it, for months. 866 00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:57,939 And then one day I woke up, 867 00:43:58,069 --> 00:44:00,245 as I was stepping into a car, 868 00:44:00,376 --> 00:44:01,507 to go somewhere with Bill. 869 00:44:04,249 --> 00:44:06,774 [dramatic music] 870 00:44:08,601 --> 00:44:10,125 Bill said, "Oh, you're back with us." 871 00:44:10,255 --> 00:44:12,475 And it was several months after, what had happened. 872 00:44:15,391 --> 00:44:18,829 I just flipped out, into some sort of psychotic state. 873 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,136 [eerie music] 874 00:44:31,363 --> 00:44:34,062 - She seemed to use sex, 875 00:44:34,149 --> 00:44:38,153 to bring out the guilt that people felt. 876 00:44:38,283 --> 00:44:42,244 She would target the women in the group. 877 00:44:42,331 --> 00:44:45,073 Some of them had had multiple partners. 878 00:44:45,203 --> 00:44:49,207 So she would publicly name them and shame them. 879 00:44:49,338 --> 00:44:52,471 It was a way of keeping them compliant. 880 00:44:53,995 --> 00:44:56,562 [dramatic music] 881 00:45:01,002 --> 00:45:04,570 Anne treated pregnant women very badly. 882 00:45:04,701 --> 00:45:08,661 Pre and postnatal depression, was common. 883 00:45:08,749 --> 00:45:09,967 And it happened to me. 884 00:45:10,098 --> 00:45:12,056 She just told people that they weren't allowed 885 00:45:12,187 --> 00:45:13,405 to visit me at all, 886 00:45:13,536 --> 00:45:15,538 so I had no visitors. 887 00:45:15,668 --> 00:45:18,236 And, you know just, 888 00:45:18,367 --> 00:45:20,761 I got very depressed while I was pregnant. 889 00:45:21,762 --> 00:45:23,807 I was very thin. 890 00:45:23,938 --> 00:45:25,591 I was shaking all the time. 891 00:45:25,722 --> 00:45:26,723 I couldn't drive. 892 00:45:26,854 --> 00:45:29,247 I couldn't think. 893 00:45:30,509 --> 00:45:34,339 And so she said, "Well, I'll take care of your children 894 00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:36,777 because you know, you're a wreck." 895 00:45:36,907 --> 00:45:39,257 And she sent me over to England for a year. 896 00:45:40,911 --> 00:45:42,478 [suspenseful music] 897 00:45:42,608 --> 00:45:45,698 - My children were sent up to Eildon 898 00:45:47,135 --> 00:45:48,832 and the results were catastrophic. 899 00:45:49,964 --> 00:45:51,748 [birds chirping] 900 00:45:51,879 --> 00:45:54,185 [sombre music] 901 00:45:57,188 --> 00:46:00,975 David was very, very badly treated. 902 00:46:01,105 --> 00:46:04,848 He was given back to me when he was seven. 903 00:46:06,154 --> 00:46:09,679 Anne said, "If he'd stayed up there, he would have died." 904 00:46:09,810 --> 00:46:12,029 So she gave him back to me. 905 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:13,378 He couldn't speak. 906 00:46:13,509 --> 00:46:14,815 He'd lost his speech. 907 00:46:17,252 --> 00:46:20,516 David has no memory now, 908 00:46:20,646 --> 00:46:23,824 of anything that happened to him before he was seven. 909 00:46:24,781 --> 00:46:25,434 Nothing. 910 00:46:27,871 --> 00:46:29,133 [dramatic music] 911 00:46:29,264 --> 00:46:31,483 And, Matthew became very depressed. 912 00:46:32,963 --> 00:46:35,357 He tried to take his life when he was 16. 913 00:46:37,228 --> 00:46:40,318 He couldn't come to terms with how he felt, 914 00:46:40,449 --> 00:46:41,842 his depression 915 00:46:41,929 --> 00:46:44,322 and he finally succumbed. 916 00:46:46,759 --> 00:46:49,850 Matthew suicided eventually when he was 20. 917 00:46:50,938 --> 00:46:52,809 [sombre music] 918 00:46:52,940 --> 00:46:55,725 [dramatic music] 919 00:47:10,871 --> 00:47:13,047 - There was so many people that were so adversely 920 00:47:13,177 --> 00:47:15,397 affected by this group. 921 00:47:15,527 --> 00:47:16,311 That lost their money. 922 00:47:16,398 --> 00:47:17,878 That lost their properties. 923 00:47:18,008 --> 00:47:21,838 They lost their minds. 924 00:47:21,969 --> 00:47:24,841 [keyboard typing] 925 00:47:29,193 --> 00:47:31,108 I submitted a detailed report. 926 00:47:32,762 --> 00:47:35,025 And suggested that the only real way forward 927 00:47:35,112 --> 00:47:36,505 was a Royal Commission. 928 00:47:36,635 --> 00:47:40,378 Where many, many of these people could, 929 00:47:40,509 --> 00:47:43,381 and would come forward, and give evidence. 930 00:47:46,123 --> 00:47:49,083 But, it was just rejected. 931 00:47:49,170 --> 00:47:51,128 I don't even know that it went anywhere, 932 00:47:51,259 --> 00:47:53,783 apart from my immediate superiors. 933 00:47:54,915 --> 00:47:58,222 [dramatic music] 934 00:47:58,353 --> 00:48:00,311 - The wheels of justice were just too slow. 935 00:48:00,442 --> 00:48:02,052 Where was the justice for the adult victims? 936 00:48:02,183 --> 00:48:04,576 Where was the justice for the child victims? 937 00:48:04,707 --> 00:48:06,230 Why wasn't she made brought to account? 938 00:48:07,797 --> 00:48:11,409 We got word, that she was in Hawaii. 939 00:48:11,496 --> 00:48:12,933 It seemed to me it was about time that 940 00:48:13,063 --> 00:48:14,978 she answered some questions. 941 00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:16,197 Hello, Mrs.Hamilton Byrne. 942 00:48:16,327 --> 00:48:17,894 Marie Mohr from Channel Nine. 943 00:48:18,025 --> 00:48:19,722 Have you got any comment now about why you kept 944 00:48:19,852 --> 00:48:21,898 those children locked away for so long? 945 00:48:22,029 --> 00:48:23,726 - No comment. 946 00:48:23,856 --> 00:48:24,857 - Why not? 947 00:48:24,988 --> 00:48:25,771 - They weren't locked away. 948 00:48:25,902 --> 00:48:26,990 - They weren't locked away. 949 00:48:27,077 --> 00:48:27,599 - They weren't locked away? 950 00:48:27,730 --> 00:48:29,036 - No, they weren't. 951 00:48:29,123 --> 00:48:30,428 - No, excuse me. 952 00:48:30,559 --> 00:48:31,342 - Can you explain to me how you treated 953 00:48:31,473 --> 00:48:32,648 the children like you did? 954 00:48:32,735 --> 00:48:33,475 And Bill, would you like to give explanations 955 00:48:33,605 --> 00:48:34,911 as to your involvement 956 00:48:35,042 --> 00:48:36,043 in why the children were locked away? 957 00:48:36,173 --> 00:48:37,305 - I've got nothing to say to you. 958 00:48:37,435 --> 00:48:39,089 - You locked up, and you stole the children. 959 00:48:39,176 --> 00:48:40,525 - Stole? 960 00:48:40,656 --> 00:48:41,570 - You stole them from sect members? 961 00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:42,919 - Excuse me 962 00:48:43,050 --> 00:48:43,876 - Got doctors to organise the adoptions. 963 00:48:44,007 --> 00:48:44,573 - I'll just go and phone the police 964 00:48:44,703 --> 00:48:46,096 - Excuse me. 965 00:48:46,183 --> 00:48:47,750 - But why won't you give us - excuse me get with... 966 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,057 - Excuse me.. But why won't you 967 00:48:51,884 --> 00:48:52,450 - We have legal actions.: We have been advised 968 00:48:52,581 --> 00:48:54,017 to say nothing. 969 00:48:54,148 --> 00:48:55,801 You have no right to be asking me those things. 970 00:48:55,888 --> 00:48:57,281 - Do you think you have spiritual powers? 971 00:48:57,412 --> 00:48:59,109 - I don't think, I have spiritual powers. 972 00:49:01,024 --> 00:49:02,808 - We had several defamation cases brought against 973 00:49:02,939 --> 00:49:05,159 us by different members of the sect, not Anne! 974 00:49:05,289 --> 00:49:06,899 Anne doesn't ever do her own dirty work. 975 00:49:08,814 --> 00:49:10,425 A long period of time where, 976 00:49:10,512 --> 00:49:13,167 I'd be lucky to get a night's sleep without the phone going 977 00:49:13,297 --> 00:49:15,821 through the night, hang up calls, hang up calls. 978 00:49:15,952 --> 00:49:17,954 Just harassment campaign. 979 00:49:18,085 --> 00:49:19,825 [chanting sounds] 980 00:49:19,956 --> 00:49:20,957 - Marie had of course, the private wallet of the media 981 00:49:21,088 --> 00:49:25,440 empire. I worked within the bureaucracy. 982 00:49:25,570 --> 00:49:27,398 You've actually got to convince your bosses. 983 00:49:27,529 --> 00:49:29,835 That what you're talking about is actual - 984 00:49:29,966 --> 00:49:31,794 - Not bizarre - that it's a possibility. 985 00:49:31,924 --> 00:49:33,535 [keyboard typing] 986 00:49:33,665 --> 00:49:36,494 [suspenseful music] 987 00:49:45,938 --> 00:49:47,505 - I don't know exactly what happened, 988 00:49:47,592 --> 00:49:49,594 but there's no doubt that it had to have come 989 00:49:49,681 --> 00:49:51,770 from within their group. 990 00:49:53,294 --> 00:49:55,513 - The matter came to me, 991 00:49:55,644 --> 00:49:59,778 through anxious, and unhappy police 992 00:50:02,694 --> 00:50:04,218 On a confidential basis, I mean, 993 00:50:04,348 --> 00:50:08,961 I would never, even to this day, say who it was. 994 00:50:11,312 --> 00:50:14,184 It was one policeman, who used me, 995 00:50:15,577 --> 00:50:17,318 to say what needed to be said. 996 00:50:20,408 --> 00:50:21,452 - The matters being investigated, 997 00:50:21,583 --> 00:50:23,367 are most serious. 998 00:50:23,454 --> 00:50:25,587 Shots, are being filed through windows. 999 00:50:25,717 --> 00:50:27,415 Car tyres are being slashed. 1000 00:50:27,545 --> 00:50:28,981 There are death threats. 1001 00:50:29,069 --> 00:50:30,679 Not one charge has been laid, 1002 00:50:30,766 --> 00:50:32,463 because the squad concerned, 1003 00:50:32,594 --> 00:50:35,249 is not able to obtain permission to travel interstate, 1004 00:50:35,379 --> 00:50:37,033 to conduct interviews. 1005 00:50:37,164 --> 00:50:39,383 The police are saying, "For God's sake, 1006 00:50:39,514 --> 00:50:41,516 give us the resources to do the job. 1007 00:50:41,603 --> 00:50:43,083 Let us get on with the job." 1008 00:50:44,736 --> 00:50:46,042 - Around that point, 1009 00:50:46,173 --> 00:50:47,870 there was quite a deal of publicity. 1010 00:50:49,089 --> 00:50:52,135 I think that became very embarrassing to government. 1011 00:50:52,266 --> 00:50:55,007 And, strangely enough, all of a sudden we got, 1012 00:50:55,095 --> 00:50:57,706 more resources. 1013 00:50:57,836 --> 00:51:00,839 Computers, and analysts to assist in 1014 00:51:00,970 --> 00:51:02,624 getting together all this information 1015 00:51:02,754 --> 00:51:05,017 that went back for so long. 1016 00:51:05,105 --> 00:51:07,890 [dramatic music] 1017 00:51:08,020 --> 00:51:08,804 - [{Reporter]} Today in Melbourne, 1018 00:51:08,891 --> 00:51:10,675 19 year old Roland Webb, 1019 00:51:10,806 --> 00:51:12,721 was charged with threatening to kill 1020 00:51:12,851 --> 00:51:16,246 investigating police, and reporter Marie Mohr. 1021 00:51:16,377 --> 00:51:18,118 - The story is that, one of the police 1022 00:51:18,248 --> 00:51:19,902 that rioted Lake Eildon 1023 00:51:19,989 --> 00:51:22,905 when I took the kids, hit Mom. 1024 00:51:23,035 --> 00:51:25,386 You don't stuff with me and my family. 1025 00:51:25,516 --> 00:51:27,344 - [{Lex]} Have you got any reason why 1026 00:51:27,475 --> 00:51:28,954 you made these allegations? 1027 00:51:29,085 --> 00:51:32,088 - [{Roland]} All I wanted to do was just to leave me, 1028 00:51:32,219 --> 00:51:34,090 and The Family- alone. 1029 00:51:34,221 --> 00:51:35,874 Do you have the right to whatever religion 1030 00:51:35,961 --> 00:51:36,788 you want to be in? 1031 00:51:36,919 --> 00:51:38,181 - Is that correct? 1032 00:51:38,312 --> 00:51:39,661 - [{Lex]} Go on. 1033 00:51:39,791 --> 00:51:40,618 - [{Roland]} Tell me, is that correct? 1034 00:51:40,749 --> 00:51:43,186 - [{Lex]} Roland, I don't know. 1035 00:51:43,317 --> 00:51:45,145 - [{Roland]} You should know 'cause you're a pig. 1036 00:51:45,232 --> 00:51:47,886 - Sometimes I don't know when to shut my mouth. 1037 00:51:48,017 --> 00:51:49,975 [laughs] 1038 00:51:50,106 --> 00:51:52,239 This mouth has got me into trouble sometimes. 1039 00:51:52,369 --> 00:51:54,154 [laughs] 1040 00:51:54,241 --> 00:51:57,157 and like you, I don't fear authority. 1041 00:51:57,287 --> 00:52:00,943 - Well, I stand by my parents, and their followers. 1042 00:52:01,073 --> 00:52:02,988 It's a free world. 1043 00:52:03,119 --> 00:52:04,947 I got to follow them every inch of the way. 1044 00:52:05,034 --> 00:52:07,689 - Uncle Bill, he was tickled pink. 1045 00:52:07,819 --> 00:52:10,213 Couldn't stop talking how, I was the only person 1046 00:52:10,344 --> 00:52:11,649 that stood up for The Family. 1047 00:52:13,825 --> 00:52:17,568 So much so that he promised me $50,000 in his will, 1048 00:52:19,527 --> 00:52:21,137 for that very act. 1049 00:52:26,925 --> 00:52:29,363 - I know at the time, many of my friends outside work, 1050 00:52:29,450 --> 00:52:31,408 were really worried about my state of health. 1051 00:52:32,888 --> 00:52:34,977 It's not a nine to five job. 1052 00:52:35,107 --> 00:52:36,500 You're mind continues to tick. 1053 00:52:38,067 --> 00:52:39,895 What's the next step I'm going to do? 1054 00:52:40,025 --> 00:52:40,896 How's that witness going, 1055 00:52:41,026 --> 00:52:42,158 that I have just interviewed? 1056 00:52:43,986 --> 00:52:45,074 You're dealing with people that have gone through 1057 00:52:45,205 --> 00:52:48,208 enormous emotional trauma. 1058 00:52:48,338 --> 00:52:50,601 And so, when you're taking their strong, 1059 00:52:50,732 --> 00:52:52,386 and horrendous statements, 1060 00:52:52,516 --> 00:52:53,691 it's pretty taxing work. 1061 00:52:55,998 --> 00:52:57,956 And there were times during the task force where, 1062 00:52:58,087 --> 00:52:59,784 you dealt with senior people, 1063 00:52:59,915 --> 00:53:03,962 and they just didn't understand the impact it was having. 1064 00:53:04,093 --> 00:53:05,050 It was a culture in those days, you know, 1065 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,708 "Oh you're a detective. Don't be bloody weak just move on". 1066 00:53:11,405 --> 00:53:12,884 - I can remember one policeman saying to me, 1067 00:53:13,015 --> 00:53:14,886 he wanted to see me. 1068 00:53:15,017 --> 00:53:16,758 He's a big tough cop. 1069 00:53:16,888 --> 00:53:18,977 We went into private room. 1070 00:53:19,108 --> 00:53:21,066 He just looked me in the eye, and he said, 1071 00:53:21,197 --> 00:53:23,678 " What happened to those kids is giving me nightmares." 1072 00:53:24,983 --> 00:53:27,247 [tense music] 1073 00:53:30,162 --> 00:53:32,034 - Two of the members needed their own 1074 00:53:32,164 --> 00:53:35,907 psychological treatment, and left the task force. 1075 00:53:39,171 --> 00:53:41,783 [phone ringing] 1076 00:53:44,046 --> 00:53:45,526 It was frustrating. 1077 00:53:45,656 --> 00:53:48,572 And, it was a bit depressing as well. 1078 00:53:48,659 --> 00:53:53,229 Just to actually have that conflict if you like..... 1079 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:53,795 being close to those great young kids .. 1080 00:53:53,882 --> 00:53:55,100 and then not being 1081 00:53:55,231 --> 00:53:57,712 able to do the absolute best for them. 1082 00:54:06,286 --> 00:54:08,766 It should have been a royal commission. 1083 00:54:08,897 --> 00:54:10,768 for the benefit of those children, 1084 00:54:10,899 --> 00:54:13,162 and the many, many, people who are so adversely 1085 00:54:13,249 --> 00:54:14,685 affected by this group. 1086 00:54:18,472 --> 00:54:21,605 The only thing that you can do is lead by example, 1087 00:54:21,736 --> 00:54:23,607 and keep focused. 1088 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,178 - We started then to piece together all the evidence 1089 00:54:29,309 --> 00:54:32,094 we had, where the evidence was missing, and what 1090 00:54:32,181 --> 00:54:34,531 we needed to do. 1091 00:54:34,662 --> 00:54:37,360 And where was the strongest case, 1092 00:54:37,447 --> 00:54:39,188 that we could find, 1093 00:54:39,319 --> 00:54:43,410 in a short period of time, against Anne and Bill. 1094 00:54:45,281 --> 00:54:48,328 We gave each alleged offender a colour, 1095 00:54:48,458 --> 00:54:50,460 each series of events a number, 1096 00:54:50,591 --> 00:54:52,636 and each victim, a letter of the alphabet. 1097 00:54:53,768 --> 00:54:55,378 [dramatic music] 1098 00:54:55,509 --> 00:54:57,206 I was absolutely totally obsessed, 1099 00:54:57,337 --> 00:54:58,773 and others on the team were as well. 1100 00:55:00,644 --> 00:55:02,864 We were getting pressured to wrap it up, 1101 00:55:02,994 --> 00:55:04,169 but we kept on working. 1102 00:55:07,303 --> 00:55:09,349 Then came the breakthrough. 1103 00:55:13,396 --> 00:55:14,571 [dramatic music] 1104 00:55:14,702 --> 00:55:16,965 The key to the activities of the cult, 1105 00:55:17,095 --> 00:55:19,184 laid in the brain of Peter Kibby. 1106 00:55:19,315 --> 00:55:22,405 He broke the code of silence, within that sect. 1107 00:55:22,536 --> 00:55:23,885 We just have to get Anne, 1108 00:55:24,015 --> 00:55:25,756 and get Bill back to Australia. 1109 00:55:25,887 --> 00:55:27,889 - This was a mission for him. 1110 00:55:28,019 --> 00:55:31,240 And he was determined to write a very horrible wrong 1111 00:55:32,633 --> 00:55:33,895 - [{Reporter]} Anne Hamilton Byrne and her husband William, 1112 00:55:33,982 --> 00:55:36,071 were arrested at their home in upstate New York. 1113 00:55:36,201 --> 00:55:38,073 - [{Reporter]} This morning, Victorian police had 1114 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,381 Anne and William Hamilton Byrne back on Australian soil. 1115 00:55:41,511 --> 00:55:44,296 - When she was extradited back, it was all mad chaos. 1116 00:55:44,384 --> 00:55:45,689 I mean, I loved her to bits. 1117 00:55:45,820 --> 00:55:47,952 But jeez, she was a bloody trouble maker. 1118 00:55:48,083 --> 00:55:49,127 - [{Anne's voice]} We are winning through, 1119 00:55:49,258 --> 00:55:51,260 by the power of the Holy spirit. 1120 00:55:51,391 --> 00:55:54,002 This is the Lord God's battle. 1121 00:55:54,132 --> 00:55:57,005 - Whilst a large part of me didn't want to see her suffer. 1122 00:55:57,135 --> 00:55:59,007 I still wanted there to be justice. 1123 00:55:59,137 --> 00:56:00,095 - This is it. 1124 00:56:00,225 --> 00:56:02,227 This is the day of judgment. 1125 00:56:02,358 --> 00:56:04,055 Were we going to get an outcome, 1126 00:56:04,186 --> 00:56:07,189 that was going to be the right outcome? 1127 00:56:07,276 --> 00:56:09,887 [dramatic music]