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♪ ♪
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(overlapping chatter)
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(rapid gunfire)
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OFFICER: Go, go, go.
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MAN (over phone): In
Walmart right now, AK,
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somebody's got shot.
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MARIANA: The world
is under attack from
a new kind of extremism.
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REPORTER (over TV): Lone wolf.
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REPORTER 2 (over TV):
Lone wolf.
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REPORTER 3 (over TV):
The lone wolf
threat has increased.
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MARIANA: Too often,
the blame is placed
on lone wolf shooters,
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but nothing could
b further from the truth.
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(chanting)
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DR. ERROLL: The
white supremacist threat is
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at an unprecedented
level in our country,
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and I'm even going
back to the 1920s when
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there was a
resurgence of the clan.
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MARIANA: This is a story
unlike any I've ever pursued.
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ALL: USA!
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MARIANA: About a
global network of
white supremacists that
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traffic in terror and hate.
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JAMES: That's what happens
when high civilizations permit
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themselves to go colored.
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(ringing)
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MAN (over phone):
Pump that (bleep) open
and pull the trigger.
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MARIANA: Are you
telling people to go
kill people right now?
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Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
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MAN: Whoa, whoa, hey.
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WOMAN: Turn it off, click.
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MARIANA: I want to understand
how this network operates.
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How it recruits,
how it radicalizes,
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and why so little is
being done to stop it.
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Do you think there's a,
a race war coming?
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ARTHUR: I hope so.
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(theme music playing)
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MARIANA: August 3rd of 2019
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began like any other
Saturday in El Paso, Texas.
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No one in the city of 700,000
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had any idea that
their hometown would
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soon witness one of
the worst mass shootings
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in American history.
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That was the day a 21 year old
white male drove 600 miles
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from his hometown in
the suburbs of Dallas to
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El Paso's Walmart Supercenter.
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Inside his car, he
carried a semi-automatic
AK-47 assault rifle.
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Sometime around 10:30 am,
he pulled into a parking lot,
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exited his car,
and opened fire.
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WOMAN (over phone):
Run, mija, run!
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(rapid gunfire)
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MAN (over phone): In
Walmart right now, AK,
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somebody's got shot.
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(rapid gunfire)
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(panting)
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ADRIA: Just running,
running, running.
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MARIANA: Adria Gonzalez
was inside shopping with
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her mother when
the massacre started.
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ADRIA: I actually told my mom,
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"Stay here and let
me see what's going on
to the, in the front."
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MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
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ADRIA: That's when I
stopped and I saw bodies,
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some bodies, and, and, uh,
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people bleeding, people
with blood all over them.
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WOMAN (over phone): Ah, no!
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(overlapping chatter)
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WOMAN (over phone):
We need CPR!
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(overlapping chatter)
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ADRIA: I was yelling,
"There's a shooter."
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And just telling
them to go get out.
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(sirens blaring)
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(phone line ringing)
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GILBERT: I always
called my son every day,
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maybe five, six times a day.
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And, uh, that morning I called
and there was no answer.
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MARIANA: Gilbert Anchondo's
son, Andre was inside
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the Walmart that morning,
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shopping with his wife
and six week old son.
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GILBERT: That's one of the
things that haunt me at night.
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What was going
through his mind?
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How did he feel
when he encounter, uh,
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the shooter and, and
he stood in front of him?
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MARIANA: Oh, so,
he actually came
face-to-face with the shooter?
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GILBERT: He came
face-to-face with the shooter.
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MARIANA: Andre died that day,
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shielding his wife and son
from the shooter's bullets.
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Though his wife
succumbed to her injuries,
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their baby boy survived.
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GILBERT: People were
actually calling him a hero,
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people that had
told us that, uh,
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"Well, I'm alive
because of your son.
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He pushed me to
the side and he,
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he was trying to
distract the shooter."
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You know, I did everything
that a parent could
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do for, for, for, his child.
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So, I was the
first one that, uh,
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brought him into this world,
and the last one that closed
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his coffin and
sent him on his way.
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MARIANA: 23 people
were murdered that day,
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before the shooter surrendered
to Texas law enforcement.
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In custody, he admitted he
was specifically targeting
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anyone who looked Latino.
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(sirens blaring)
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ADRIA: Why us?
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What did we do to him to
have so much hate towards us?
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Why?
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MARIANA: What few realized
is that the El Paso shooter
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was part of a movement.
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A global network
of white supremacists
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who operate much like
a trafficking network.
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Only they're not putting
drugs in people's bodies
or guns in their hands,
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they're putting violent
fantasies in their heads.
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I'm on a mission to
understand how it works,
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what's motivating these
young white men to commit
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such extreme
and bloody attacks,
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and what can be
done to stop them.
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(gunshot)
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CHRISTIAN: You'll
never get the truth
from a current extremist.
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Their whole job
is to lie to you and
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to spin things their own way.
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Which is why I say,
if you want the truth,
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talk to a former extremist.
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MARIANA: Do you
still have the jacket?
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CHRISTIAN: I
still have the jacket.
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MARIANA: Wow.
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CHRISTIAN: So, this was CASH,
Chicago Area Skin Heads which
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was that first American, uh,
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neo-Nazi group.
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And then on the back.
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MARIANA: Final Solution, oh.
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CHRISTIAN: Final Solution was
my band name with the 88 which
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is kind of shorthand, uh,
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for the 8th letter
of the alphabet, HH,
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which stands for Heil Hitler.
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MARIANA: What was
the Final Solution?
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CHRISTIAN: Well,
the Final Solution in
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my mind was, uh,
the same thing that was
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in Hitler's mind, uh,
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and that was the
extermination of the Jews.
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That was the
ultimate solution.
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MARIANA: From
the age of 14 to 22,
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Christian Picciolini
helped build
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America's first neo-Nazi
skinhead organization.
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But today, he has devoted
his life to helping people
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disengage from the
same extremist groups
he used to belong to.
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CHRISTIAN: What I see when
I look at those pictures
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is not a tough guy.
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Uh, I see
a very, uh, insecure.
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MARIANA: Hmm.
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CHRISTIAN: Um, low self-esteem
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and broken young man.
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And I think it's important for
people to understand that what
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draws people to
those movements,
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hate movements, is not
the ideology initially.
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Nobody is born to hate.
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It's something that we learn.
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And for me, I was searching
for an identity, a community.
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MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
CHRISTIAN: And a purpose.
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MARIANA: Christian was
ripe for radicalization.
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And on a street
corner in 1987,
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he was approached by
a skinhead leader and
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recruited on the spot.
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CHRISTIAN: That man
told me that I mattered.
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Nobody had ever
told me that before.
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MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
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CHRISTIAN: And I
bought into the ideas.
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MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
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CHRISTIAN: That they
put into my head because
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it made me feel powerful.
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SONYA (over TV):
With me today,
Chris Picciolini,
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19 years old, director
of the Illinois chapter
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of the Northern
Hammer Skinheads.
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CHRISTIAN (over TV):
Well, I believe we're
warriors today and
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we're fighting for a great
cause which is the white race.
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CHRISTIAN: I noticed my
life changed immediately.
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MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
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CHRISTIAN: I went from
somebody who was had been
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bullied to now
somebody who was feared.
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MARIANA: Christian describes
his radicalization as a
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descent into a community
of like-minded individuals.
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They consumed a potent mix of
race-based conspiracy theories
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and misinformation that
fueled their anger and
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justified their attacks.
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I wonder how that
radicalization process
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compares to today.
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♪ Damn, I'm so old ♪
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♪ Just call me a shrink ♪♪
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CHRISTIAN: In my day,
it was very face-to-face,
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but what's happened now,
is the internet has kind of
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become that digital alley that
I was recruited in except it's
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an all you can eat,
24 hour hate buffet.
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And there are millions and
millions of young people like
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I was at 14 years old.
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MARIANA: What about
the El Paso shooter?
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CHRISTIAN: The whole idea
of a lone wolf is a misnomer.
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Uh, while there are
white supremacists who
may never, in real life,
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meet another
white supremacist.
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MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
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CHRISTIAN: That doesn't
mean they're not connected.
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MARIANA: The internet is a
technological game changer
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amplifying lies and
weaponizing propaganda
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like never before.
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Extremists are
flooding social media
and encrypted chat forums,
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creating an alternate
universe of imaginary threats,
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where lies become truth, and
conspiracy becomes reality.
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As of May 2021, Facebook
banned 250 groups linked
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to white supremacy.
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Often what starts as
edgy memes that target
young men on platforms
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like Reddit, Twitter,
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and others, quickly spirals
into more extreme content.
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The El Paso shooter,
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for example, wrote
that he was inspired by
a manifesto posted online
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by a shooter in New Zealand
who live-streamed himself
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murdering 51 Muslims.
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Called "The
Great Replacement,"
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this manifesto
justified the killings as
a defense of white culture
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from the
existential threat posed
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by Muslims, minorities,
and immigrants.
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The fact that these
white genocide fears have been
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debunked time and again over
centuries means little online.
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Within the echo
chamber of the movement,
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the New Zealand shooter's
manifesto is revered and
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used to
indoctrinate new recruits.
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All too often,
that's how it works.
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The speed of
online radicalization helps
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explain why race-based
attacks are on the rise.
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As Christian said,
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"Nobody is born to hate,
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it's learned."
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MOLLIE: By every metric,
white supremacy extremism is
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the greatest terrorism
threat to the United States.
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Far greater than the threat
posed by organizations like
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Al Qaeda or ISIS.
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MARIANA: Do you think we're
taking this threat seriously?
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MOLLIE: No, this
threat is not taken, um,
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as serious, uh,
as it needs to be.
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MARIANA: Mollie Saltskog is
a senior intelligence analyst
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for the Soufan Group
and an expert on
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the rising extremism
threat in America.
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She tells me that in
the 20 years since 9/11,
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white supremacists
have committed nearly
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three times as many
attacks on U. S. soil
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as Islamic extremists.
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MOLLIE: We've seen
how white supremacy
extremist groups here in the
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00:11:33,568 --> 00:11:36,821
United States are sharing
Al Qaeda manuals online,
244
00:11:36,821 --> 00:11:39,824
on how to build bombs,
on how to recruit.
245
00:11:39,824 --> 00:11:42,994
They are organizing in the
similar ways that Al Qaeda was
246
00:11:42,994 --> 00:11:46,372
organizing in the
years leading up to 9/11.
247
00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:50,001
DR. ERROLL: The policy
has always followed what
248
00:11:50,001 --> 00:11:51,669
I call the Other.
249
00:11:51,669 --> 00:11:55,006
The other ethnicity,
the other religion,
250
00:11:55,006 --> 00:11:56,799
the other nationality.
251
00:11:56,799 --> 00:11:58,635
9/11 made it easy.
252
00:11:58,635 --> 00:12:02,597
We could focus on
Islam and jihadis.
253
00:12:02,597 --> 00:12:06,226
MARIANA: Professor, author,
and former FBI special agent,
254
00:12:06,226 --> 00:12:09,103
Doctor Erroll Southers
has dedicated his life to
255
00:12:09,103 --> 00:12:11,522
combating violent extremists.
256
00:12:11,522 --> 00:12:13,358
DR. ERROLL: America
has two problems.
257
00:12:13,358 --> 00:12:16,611
Number one, we don't
want to believe that
Americans can be terrorists.
258
00:12:16,611 --> 00:12:19,530
And second, they definitely
don't want to use the T word
259
00:12:19,530 --> 00:12:21,449
if it's a white male.
260
00:12:21,449 --> 00:12:23,409
When you hear about
the El Paso shooter,
261
00:12:23,409 --> 00:12:26,287
nobody wants to talk about him
being ideologically motivated.
262
00:12:26,287 --> 00:12:27,997
We pivot away from that.
263
00:12:27,997 --> 00:12:29,290
Must have been a lone wolf,
264
00:12:29,290 --> 00:12:31,251
must have had
some mental health issues,
265
00:12:31,251 --> 00:12:33,127
because it's more
comfortable for us.
266
00:12:33,127 --> 00:12:35,630
Now, America's denial
is just incredible.
267
00:12:36,673 --> 00:12:40,426
MARIANA: What
Southers is diagnosing
is a national blind spot,
268
00:12:40,426 --> 00:12:43,429
an inability for a
country founded by and still
269
00:12:43,429 --> 00:12:47,600
largely run by white people to
recognize the very real threat
270
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,311
of white supremacy extremism.
271
00:12:50,311 --> 00:12:52,689
Mollie, which groups
in particular, sort of,
272
00:12:52,689 --> 00:12:53,940
worry you the most?
273
00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:57,402
MOLLIE: The groups
that need to provoke, um,
274
00:12:57,402 --> 00:13:01,281
a race war to build
their white ethno-state.
275
00:13:02,865 --> 00:13:05,201
MARIANA: This is
who I want to find.
276
00:13:05,201 --> 00:13:07,620
The groups
pushing for a race war.
277
00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:09,122
The terrorists that the U. S.
278
00:13:09,122 --> 00:13:12,750
has been so reluctant
to label terrorists.
279
00:13:12,750 --> 00:13:14,919
ARTHUR: If you
have an invasion
coming into your country,
280
00:13:14,919 --> 00:13:18,548
you don't politely
ask the people invading
to leave, you kill them.
281
00:13:25,263 --> 00:13:29,684
♪ ♪
282
00:13:29,684 --> 00:13:31,644
MARIANA: Over the last
several years, the U. S.
283
00:13:31,644 --> 00:13:34,564
has seen an increase in
racially motivated violence.
284
00:13:35,857 --> 00:13:38,609
Many called these
lone wolf attacks,
285
00:13:38,609 --> 00:13:40,987
but nothing could be
further from the truth.
286
00:13:42,405 --> 00:13:44,198
JAMES: Well, if you're gonna
be on the side of history,
287
00:13:44,198 --> 00:13:47,869
that's what happens when
high civilizations permit
288
00:13:47,869 --> 00:13:49,829
themselves to go colored.
289
00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:52,290
MARIANA: I'm in Denver to
meet one of the men pulling
290
00:13:52,290 --> 00:13:54,459
the strings of this movement.
291
00:13:54,459 --> 00:13:57,211
JAMES: We're called haters
and who in their right mind
292
00:13:57,211 --> 00:14:00,882
can love what's going
on in this country today?
293
00:14:00,882 --> 00:14:03,593
MARIANA: James Mason has been
pushing conspiracies about
294
00:14:03,593 --> 00:14:06,721
white genocide for
more than five decades.
295
00:14:06,721 --> 00:14:08,765
BOB (over TV):
You do want to bring
about violent revolution.
296
00:14:08,765 --> 00:14:11,267
JAMES (over TV): It's
going to happen on its own.
297
00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:13,352
BOB (over TV): No, no,
that's cute, that's cute.
298
00:14:13,352 --> 00:14:15,021
JAMES (over TV): No
one can, no one can stop it.
299
00:14:15,021 --> 00:14:16,230
No one.
300
00:14:16,981 --> 00:14:20,943
MARIANA: In 1986, Mason tried
to help this revolution along.
301
00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:22,612
He published Siege,
302
00:14:22,612 --> 00:14:24,405
a kind of white
supremacist bible that
303
00:14:24,405 --> 00:14:28,242
calls for terror attacks
just like Al Qaeda and ISIS.
304
00:14:28,743 --> 00:14:30,745
So, are you concerned at
all that your writings and
305
00:14:30,745 --> 00:14:34,207
your words can inspire
people to do horrific things?
306
00:14:34,207 --> 00:14:35,792
JAMES: If it's going
to produce something,
307
00:14:35,792 --> 00:14:38,044
if it's a proper target,
308
00:14:38,044 --> 00:14:39,879
then it isn't, in my opinion,
309
00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:41,631
even a murder.
310
00:14:41,631 --> 00:14:44,550
MARIANA: Mason had fallen
into obscurity for decades,
311
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:48,387
but in 2015, a new
generation of extremists
312
00:14:48,387 --> 00:14:50,348
inspired by Mason's ideas
313
00:14:50,348 --> 00:14:53,434
created the
Atomwaffen Division.
314
00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:56,938
Its members have plotted a
variety of terror attacks,
315
00:14:56,938 --> 00:15:00,817
including targeting a nuclear
power plant in Florida.
316
00:15:00,817 --> 00:15:04,445
They now have
cells in at least
three different countries
317
00:15:04,445 --> 00:15:06,405
and are linked to five murders
318
00:15:06,405 --> 00:15:08,366
in the United States.
319
00:15:08,366 --> 00:15:10,159
So, you wouldn't take
offense if I asked you
320
00:15:10,159 --> 00:15:11,869
if you consider
yourself a terrorist?
321
00:15:11,869 --> 00:15:13,579
ARTHUR: I don't
consider myself a terrorist.
322
00:15:13,579 --> 00:15:15,915
Now, is that something I would
be opposed to if I thought it
323
00:15:15,915 --> 00:15:17,959
would help us take
power in the United States?
324
00:15:17,959 --> 00:15:19,502
No.
325
00:15:19,502 --> 00:15:23,047
MARIANA: By day, Arthur
is a 28 year old salesman,
326
00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:24,590
but he's also
327
00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:27,635
the Colorado cell leader for
the National Socialist Order,
328
00:15:27,635 --> 00:15:30,888
the latest rebranding of
the Atomwaffen Division.
329
00:15:30,888 --> 00:15:34,559
How did you find
your neo-Nazi beliefs?
330
00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:36,352
ARTHUR: I was
looking for a worldview,
331
00:15:36,352 --> 00:15:41,482
for an ideology to explain why
things were going so haywire.
332
00:15:41,482 --> 00:15:43,609
MARIANA: What, in the world,
were you seeing going haywire?
333
00:15:43,609 --> 00:15:44,819
What wasn't working?
334
00:15:44,819 --> 00:15:46,154
ARTHUR: I mean, everything.
335
00:15:46,154 --> 00:15:47,363
Political discord.
336
00:15:47,363 --> 00:15:48,739
Racial discord.
337
00:15:48,739 --> 00:15:50,616
People being so alienated.
338
00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:51,659
Shootings.
339
00:15:51,659 --> 00:15:53,202
Drug addiction.
340
00:15:53,202 --> 00:15:56,205
I felt that there must be
something that could stop
341
00:15:56,205 --> 00:15:58,207
all of this from happening.
342
00:15:58,207 --> 00:16:00,668
MARIANA: It's striking how
similar Arthur's story is
343
00:16:00,668 --> 00:16:04,297
to Christian's,
roughly 30 years earlier.
344
00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:06,465
CHRISTIAN: I was searching for
three really important things.
345
00:16:06,465 --> 00:16:08,301
I was searching
for an identity,
346
00:16:08,301 --> 00:16:10,970
a community, and a purpose.
347
00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:13,431
MARIANA: Arthur found the
answers he was looking for
348
00:16:13,431 --> 00:16:17,226
online on a now
defunct neo-Nazi message board
349
00:16:17,226 --> 00:16:19,353
known as Iron March.
350
00:16:19,353 --> 00:16:21,689
The Southern Poverty
Law Center reports that
351
00:16:21,689 --> 00:16:23,774
the forum is
linked to murders and
352
00:16:23,774 --> 00:16:26,527
terrorism across
multiple countries.
353
00:16:27,570 --> 00:16:31,073
Iron March is where Arthur
connected with fellow fascists
354
00:16:31,073 --> 00:16:35,161
and was first introduced to
the writings of James Mason.
355
00:16:35,161 --> 00:16:37,872
What are your thoughts
on the New Zealand shooter?
356
00:16:37,872 --> 00:16:40,166
ARTHUR: I think the only
thing that he did wrong was
357
00:16:40,166 --> 00:16:42,376
that he didn't kill more.
358
00:16:42,376 --> 00:16:44,503
MARIANA: That is such
a horrific thing to say.
359
00:16:44,503 --> 00:16:47,673
I mean, I, do
you do, do you, uh,
360
00:16:47,673 --> 00:16:49,884
is it, is it for
the shock value that
you say these things?
361
00:16:49,884 --> 00:16:51,260
ARTHUR: Not for
shock value at all.
362
00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:53,387
If you have an invasion
coming into your country,
363
00:16:53,387 --> 00:16:56,224
you don't politely ask the
people invading to leave.
364
00:16:56,224 --> 00:16:57,141
You kill them.
365
00:16:57,141 --> 00:16:58,684
(tv static)
366
00:16:58,684 --> 00:17:01,395
MARIANA: Arthur and the
National Socialist Order are
367
00:17:01,395 --> 00:17:04,440
now creating videos
to radicalize others.
368
00:17:05,775 --> 00:17:08,194
How many people do you
think have seen this video?
369
00:17:08,194 --> 00:17:10,238
ARTHUR: Thousands I'm sure.
370
00:17:10,238 --> 00:17:12,031
MARIANA: Isn't this a
clear incitement of violence?
371
00:17:12,031 --> 00:17:14,158
ARTHUR: Oh, I mean, maybe.
372
00:17:14,158 --> 00:17:15,117
I, I wouldn't necessarily.
373
00:17:15,117 --> 00:17:15,952
MARIANA: Oh, maybe? Maybe?
374
00:17:15,952 --> 00:17:17,495
ARTHUR: Necessarily.
375
00:17:17,495 --> 00:17:18,663
MARIANA: The,
it's three steps,
and the third is act,
376
00:17:18,663 --> 00:17:20,665
and its people shooting
at the other people.
377
00:17:20,665 --> 00:17:22,333
ARTHUR: Well, I mean, we
didn't ever tell anybody
378
00:17:22,333 --> 00:17:24,126
to go out and do this act.
379
00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:26,295
Maybe we implied it, but
we didn't ever tell anybody
380
00:17:26,295 --> 00:17:28,172
to go out and do something.
381
00:17:28,172 --> 00:17:31,342
MARIANA: Despite
these obvious threats,
the U. S. government has
382
00:17:31,342 --> 00:17:34,470
yet to label
groups like the NSO as
383
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:36,973
domestic terror organizations.
384
00:17:36,973 --> 00:17:39,392
Even though, they are
mirroring the strategies of
385
00:17:39,392 --> 00:17:43,437
Al Qaeda and ISIS,
and not just online.
386
00:17:43,437 --> 00:17:45,481
REPORTER (over TV): Three
teenage girls in our community
387
00:17:45,481 --> 00:17:48,859
accused of trying
to travel to Syria in
an effort to join ISIS.
388
00:17:48,859 --> 00:17:51,445
REPORTER 2 (over TV):
Many of them attracted
to join the terrorist army
389
00:17:51,445 --> 00:17:55,449
through slick propaganda
on social media websites.
390
00:17:55,449 --> 00:17:58,619
MARIANA: I remember
the outrage when the
American public learned
391
00:17:58,619 --> 00:18:01,080
that dozens of
Muslims from the U. S.
392
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,584
had flown to Syria
and Iraq to join ISIS.
393
00:18:04,584 --> 00:18:08,462
Now, American
white supremacists are
394
00:18:08,462 --> 00:18:11,507
heading overseas to
gain combat experience
395
00:18:11,507 --> 00:18:13,467
that they can use
when they return home.
396
00:18:13,467 --> 00:18:15,052
(rapid gunfire)
397
00:18:15,052 --> 00:18:17,430
DR. ERROLL: This is a
transnational movement,
398
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:21,392
we are seeing similar patterns
in other countries that have
399
00:18:21,392 --> 00:18:25,021
the same problem,
same demographic,
400
00:18:25,021 --> 00:18:27,565
many American groups
now are traveling,
401
00:18:27,565 --> 00:18:30,526
overseas for training,
and to connect.
402
00:18:30,526 --> 00:18:33,279
MARIANA: I asked Mason
what he can confirm.
403
00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:35,114
JAMES: There were some, uh,
404
00:18:35,114 --> 00:18:37,366
Atomwaffen people who
went over to the Ukraine,
405
00:18:37,366 --> 00:18:39,327
who went through
some of their training.
406
00:18:39,327 --> 00:18:41,704
And they came back with
some pretty glowing reports.
407
00:18:41,704 --> 00:18:43,247
And I was, I
was delighted, just,
408
00:18:43,247 --> 00:18:44,790
just delighted.
409
00:18:44,790 --> 00:18:46,125
MARIANA: Who are those people
who came back from Ukraine?
410
00:18:46,125 --> 00:18:47,918
JAMES: They were, um,
they were Americans, yes.
411
00:18:47,918 --> 00:18:49,545
MARIANA: Can you
tell me their names?
412
00:18:49,545 --> 00:18:50,463
JAMES: Are you kidding?
413
00:18:50,463 --> 00:18:52,006
(laughs)
414
00:18:52,006 --> 00:18:53,090
I could, but I won't.
415
00:18:53,090 --> 00:18:54,300
(laughs)
416
00:18:56,135 --> 00:18:58,638
MARIANA: All my research
points to Ukraine as well.
417
00:19:00,848 --> 00:19:04,060
It's gained a reputation
as a major hub for the global
418
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:05,561
white supremacy movement.
419
00:19:05,561 --> 00:19:07,897
(chanting)
420
00:19:07,897 --> 00:19:11,400
I've traveled 6,000 miles
to Eastern Europe
421
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,611
to understand why.
422
00:19:13,611 --> 00:19:16,739
And to see if I can find any
Americans who have been drawn
423
00:19:16,739 --> 00:19:19,325
to this brand of
racial extremism.
424
00:19:19,325 --> 00:19:20,242
MAN (over PA): Hail Nazis!
425
00:19:20,242 --> 00:19:21,243
(chanting)
426
00:19:21,243 --> 00:19:22,578
MAN (over PA): Hail Nazis!
427
00:19:25,206 --> 00:19:28,876
♪ ♪
428
00:19:28,876 --> 00:19:30,586
MARIANA: The importance
of Ukraine to the global
429
00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:34,799
white supremacy movement
can be traced back to 2014.
430
00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,635
REPORTER (over TV):
Ukraine's military is on
high alert this morning.
431
00:19:37,635 --> 00:19:40,429
Thousands of Russian ground
and naval forces occupy
432
00:19:40,429 --> 00:19:42,264
the Crimean Peninsula.
433
00:19:42,264 --> 00:19:44,517
The Ukrainian military
is mobilizing troops and
434
00:19:44,517 --> 00:19:48,270
calling on Army Reservists to
report for duty immediately.
435
00:19:48,270 --> 00:19:51,190
MARIANA: Ukraine's
military was overwhelmed,
436
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:54,276
so volunteer militias
stepped in to fight.
437
00:19:54,276 --> 00:19:56,862
Some of these militias
believed in racist and
438
00:19:56,862 --> 00:19:59,198
neo-Nazi ideologies.
439
00:19:59,198 --> 00:20:01,659
But with a country
desperate to defend itself,
440
00:20:01,659 --> 00:20:04,620
the Ukrainian government
made a devil's bargain.
441
00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:07,123
They armed these militias,
442
00:20:07,123 --> 00:20:10,668
paid them, and
ultimately legitimized them.
443
00:20:11,377 --> 00:20:13,713
Extremist members
recruited other extremists
444
00:20:13,713 --> 00:20:16,382
from around the world
to come join the battle,
445
00:20:16,382 --> 00:20:18,300
including some Americans.
446
00:20:19,635 --> 00:20:23,055
Ukraine became their training
grounds in preparation for
447
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:24,849
a race war back home.
448
00:20:25,808 --> 00:20:27,768
EMILE: There was definitely a
draw of men that were coming
449
00:20:27,768 --> 00:20:30,479
here to fight because
access was quite easy.
450
00:20:30,479 --> 00:20:32,773
A lot of them went
to the Nazi groups,
451
00:20:32,773 --> 00:20:35,568
to the extremist
groups and guys who,
452
00:20:35,568 --> 00:20:37,111
with little
military experience,
453
00:20:37,111 --> 00:20:39,363
were turning up in Kiev, and
within days being in a trench.
454
00:20:39,363 --> 00:20:40,823
MARIANA: Right.
455
00:20:40,823 --> 00:20:42,199
EMILE: With an AK-47 shooting
at Russian separatists.
456
00:20:42,199 --> 00:20:44,076
(rapid gunfire)
457
00:20:44,076 --> 00:20:45,661
And no one really
knows what they're up to.
458
00:20:45,661 --> 00:20:47,246
No one knows what
skills they're learning,
459
00:20:47,246 --> 00:20:49,248
what they've
actually been doing.
460
00:20:49,248 --> 00:20:51,792
MARIANA: Emile Ghessen
served 12 years in the
461
00:20:51,792 --> 00:20:55,004
British military as a
Royal Marine Commando before
462
00:20:55,004 --> 00:20:57,339
becoming a
full-time journalist.
463
00:20:57,339 --> 00:21:00,926
In 2016, he traveled to
Ukraine's front lines to
464
00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:04,138
document the influx of
these foreign fighters.
465
00:21:04,138 --> 00:21:06,515
Do you think it's dangerous to
have so many of them out there
466
00:21:06,515 --> 00:21:09,518
in the world dispersed
with all this training?
467
00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:11,228
EMILE: I see some of
these guys learn weapons and
468
00:21:11,228 --> 00:21:13,189
bomb tactics, and
no one's vetting them.
469
00:21:13,189 --> 00:21:14,690
It's lawless.
470
00:21:14,690 --> 00:21:16,692
All it takes is one guy to
carry out a terrorist attack.
471
00:21:16,692 --> 00:21:17,902
And especially, in
certain countries,
472
00:21:17,902 --> 00:21:19,195
like the
United States of America,
473
00:21:19,195 --> 00:21:21,113
where access to
weapons is quite easy.
474
00:21:21,113 --> 00:21:22,865
MARIANA: Days
before my arrival,
475
00:21:22,865 --> 00:21:24,325
Ukrainian state security
476
00:21:24,325 --> 00:21:26,786
deported two
American extremists
477
00:21:26,786 --> 00:21:30,706
who allegedly created
this new Atomwaffen video.
478
00:21:30,706 --> 00:21:33,709
(speaking in native language)
479
00:21:33,709 --> 00:21:35,085
EMILE: Crazy,
it's dangerous, isn't it?
480
00:21:35,085 --> 00:21:36,545
MARIANA: It's
incredibly dangerous.
481
00:21:36,545 --> 00:21:38,589
Only months earlier,
482
00:21:38,589 --> 00:21:42,218
Ukrainian intelligence
arrested another extremist,
483
00:21:42,218 --> 00:21:45,054
who was allegedly
selling translated copies of
484
00:21:45,054 --> 00:21:47,431
the New Zealand
shooter's manifesto.
485
00:21:47,431 --> 00:21:50,976
The same manifesto
that inspired the
shooter in El Paso.
486
00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:53,479
Can you tell me what happened
the day you were arrested?
487
00:22:12,873 --> 00:22:15,167
MARIANA: Russian,
Alexander Skatchkov eagerly
488
00:22:15,167 --> 00:22:19,380
enlisted in Ukraine's
far right militias in 2014.
489
00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:22,466
He's currently out
on bail, awaiting trial.
490
00:22:22,466 --> 00:22:24,134
So, what I read in the
American media was that
491
00:22:24,134 --> 00:22:28,097
law enforcement here found a
network of neo-Nazis that were
492
00:22:28,097 --> 00:22:31,559
selling this book and they
were stockpiling weapons.
493
00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:33,602
Were you part of this network?
494
00:22:47,408 --> 00:22:48,284
MARIANA: How did you get it?
495
00:22:48,284 --> 00:22:49,326
ALEXANDER: Uh...
496
00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:57,459
MARIANA: Skatchkov
didn't come alone.
497
00:22:57,459 --> 00:22:59,169
He brought his
attorney with him.
498
00:22:59,169 --> 00:23:01,171
He's in the room,
advising his client,
499
00:23:01,171 --> 00:23:05,175
but refused
permission for his face
or his voice to be recorded.
500
00:23:07,428 --> 00:23:08,721
MARIANA: What's happening?
501
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:14,476
MARIANA: Okay, got it.
502
00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:19,148
Skatchkov's lawyer advises
him to say it's his hobby to
503
00:23:19,148 --> 00:23:21,483
collect right-wing literature.
504
00:23:21,483 --> 00:23:23,360
So, what do you think of
the New Zealand shooter?
505
00:23:24,153 --> 00:23:25,279
(laughs)
506
00:23:34,705 --> 00:23:35,748
ALEXANDER: No.
507
00:23:46,884 --> 00:23:50,721
MARIANA: The New Zealand
manifesto doesn't label
immigrants as newcomers.
508
00:23:50,721 --> 00:23:53,140
It calls them invaders.
509
00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:55,142
And it's clear
in the manifesto,
510
00:23:55,142 --> 00:23:58,395
how white people should
deal with these invaders.
511
00:23:58,395 --> 00:24:02,107
Do you know that this
manifesto has been used, um,
512
00:24:02,107 --> 00:24:03,776
in other parts of the world,
513
00:24:03,776 --> 00:24:05,110
including in
the United States,
514
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:08,197
to inspire other mass murders?
515
00:24:29,635 --> 00:24:31,387
MARIANA: And that's the
temptation for extremists
516
00:24:31,387 --> 00:24:33,681
around the world.
517
00:24:33,681 --> 00:24:38,352
The desire to be a
part of a global movement
to assert white dominance.
518
00:24:38,352 --> 00:24:40,187
Are you a Nazi?
519
00:24:40,187 --> 00:24:43,941
(laughs)
520
00:24:43,941 --> 00:24:47,736
Your T-shirt, um, has
a lot of Nazi symbols.
521
00:24:55,703 --> 00:24:56,829
MARIANA: And is
that a person doing
522
00:24:56,829 --> 00:24:58,789
the Hitler salute
in the middle?
523
00:24:59,123 --> 00:25:02,292
(laughs)
524
00:25:06,964 --> 00:25:09,633
MARIANA: None of
this is a coincidence.
525
00:25:09,633 --> 00:25:12,386
Despite the efforts of
the government to combat it,
526
00:25:12,386 --> 00:25:16,765
Ukraine is clearly
home to a thriving
white supremacist underworld.
527
00:25:17,975 --> 00:25:21,478
One that's lured more than
a few American extremists.
528
00:25:22,896 --> 00:25:24,398
And thankfully, through Emile,
529
00:25:24,398 --> 00:25:25,983
it looks like I
may have found one.
530
00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:30,863
He tells us to meet him on a
corner near a Metro station.
531
00:25:31,363 --> 00:25:33,532
So, he hasn't even
given you a coffee shop,
532
00:25:33,532 --> 00:25:35,409
or a bar, or an actual
location for us to meet?
533
00:25:35,409 --> 00:25:37,161
EMILE: Uh, they'll give
you a rendezvous point and
534
00:25:37,161 --> 00:25:39,747
then they'll
come physically to,
sort of watch you.
535
00:25:39,747 --> 00:25:40,748
To see what you're up to.
536
00:25:40,748 --> 00:25:42,124
MARIANA: Oh, wow, okay.
537
00:25:42,124 --> 00:25:43,417
EMILE: Make sure you're
not with anyone else, um.
538
00:25:43,417 --> 00:25:45,085
Do reconnaissance of
the area and then come in.
539
00:25:45,085 --> 00:25:49,048
MARIANA: I'm heading
to meet one of Ukraine's
most infamous veterans.
540
00:25:49,048 --> 00:25:52,384
A former U. S. soldier
named Caig Lang.
541
00:25:52,384 --> 00:25:54,428
EMILE: He's a bit
of a Ukrainian hero.
542
00:25:54,428 --> 00:25:55,429
They love him here
because he was here from
543
00:25:55,429 --> 00:25:57,890
the original
outbreak of the war.
544
00:25:57,890 --> 00:25:59,850
He's been in the trenches,
but he doesn't really like
545
00:25:59,850 --> 00:26:01,685
to talk to journalists
or anyone from the media.
546
00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:04,772
MARIANA: Lang served
six years in the U. S. Army
547
00:26:04,772 --> 00:26:08,108
before being
discharged for going AWOL and
548
00:26:08,108 --> 00:26:11,153
threatening to
kill his then wife.
549
00:26:11,153 --> 00:26:14,907
CRAIG (over TV): I came
to Ukraine to come and
help the Ukrainian people.
550
00:26:14,907 --> 00:26:19,036
MARIANA: In 2015, he headed to
Ukraine to join Right Sector,
551
00:26:19,036 --> 00:26:22,748
a volunteer militia with
an extremist reputation.
552
00:26:22,748 --> 00:26:25,834
So, Lang was
actually recruiting
Americans to come here?
553
00:26:25,834 --> 00:26:28,295
EMILE: A lot of
the guys, volunteers
for the United States
554
00:26:28,295 --> 00:26:31,048
and Europe, who are coming
over here would contact Lang
555
00:26:31,048 --> 00:26:33,300
and then he was
there facilitating them get,
556
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:35,511
to get to the front line quite
easy with the Right Sector.
557
00:26:35,511 --> 00:26:37,262
MARIANA: So, it was,
sort of, a, a
558
00:26:37,262 --> 00:26:39,306
Nazi organization or
associated with Nazis?
559
00:26:39,306 --> 00:26:40,557
EMILE: So, yeah.
560
00:26:40,557 --> 00:26:42,059
I wouldn't say all the
volunteers were Nazis,
561
00:26:42,059 --> 00:26:44,269
but they're guilty
by association really.
562
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:45,813
MARIANA: So, what is he
doing in Ukraine right now?
563
00:26:45,813 --> 00:26:47,898
EMILE: He's wanted
by the American FBI.
564
00:26:47,898 --> 00:26:51,443
MARIANA: Lang may be a
hero to some in Ukraine,
565
00:26:51,443 --> 00:26:54,530
but back in the States,
he's wanted for murder.
566
00:26:55,614 --> 00:26:59,034
In 2018, Lang and an
accomplice were accused of
567
00:26:59,034 --> 00:27:02,663
gunning down a
husband and wife during
a robbery in Florida.
568
00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:07,668
He then fled back to Ukraine
to evade American authorities.
569
00:27:07,668 --> 00:27:09,086
Are you concerned
that you're bringing in
570
00:27:09,086 --> 00:27:10,587
a journalist
without telling him?
571
00:27:10,587 --> 00:27:12,381
EMILE: He might feel
like I've tricked him.
572
00:27:12,381 --> 00:27:13,924
MARIANA: Right,
that's what I mean.
573
00:27:13,924 --> 00:27:15,384
EMILE: And done a runaround,
and then he might actually go
574
00:27:15,384 --> 00:27:17,678
into panic mode thinking
that you're linked to the FBI.
575
00:27:17,678 --> 00:27:19,513
So, I think we need
to be a bit, quite cautious.
576
00:27:34,278 --> 00:27:35,821
MARIANA: So, you
guys stay in the car.
577
00:27:35,821 --> 00:27:36,822
We're about a block away.
578
00:27:47,416 --> 00:27:49,167
(bell ringing)
579
00:27:53,046 --> 00:27:55,424
MARIANA: At a cafe,
next to the Metro station,
580
00:27:55,424 --> 00:27:58,427
the American fugitive
finally shows up with
581
00:27:58,427 --> 00:28:01,263
his Ukrainian fiancée
and their baby.
582
00:28:03,432 --> 00:28:07,311
Just sitting across
from someone like Lang
proves Emile's warning,
583
00:28:07,311 --> 00:28:10,355
that American extremists
are out here and that
584
00:28:10,355 --> 00:28:12,482
no one knows
what they'll do next.
585
00:28:14,568 --> 00:28:16,653
Lang is suspicious
about what I want and
586
00:28:16,653 --> 00:28:18,405
who I'm working for.
587
00:28:19,448 --> 00:28:22,743
He decides he doesn't
want to go on camera.
588
00:28:22,743 --> 00:28:23,911
He thought that it
was sort of a setup.
589
00:28:23,911 --> 00:28:25,245
EMILE: Hmm.
590
00:28:25,245 --> 00:28:26,371
MARIANA: That the FBI
was trying to snatch him.
591
00:28:26,371 --> 00:28:27,372
EMILE: I think the
thing with him as well.
592
00:28:27,372 --> 00:28:28,457
He thinks anyone,
like yourself,
593
00:28:28,457 --> 00:28:30,208
American could be a setup.
594
00:28:30,208 --> 00:28:32,169
Even that you're saying you
work for National Geographic.
595
00:28:32,169 --> 00:28:33,921
MARIANA: National Geographic.
596
00:28:33,921 --> 00:28:35,297
EMILE: He still thinks
that you potentially
could be working with,
597
00:28:35,297 --> 00:28:36,590
he thinks you're working
for the Russians actually.
598
00:28:36,590 --> 00:28:38,383
And it just goes
to show that, that, uh,
599
00:28:38,383 --> 00:28:41,345
that these guys are living
this life of where they're
600
00:28:41,345 --> 00:28:44,556
so scared that anyone
can pick them up because
601
00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:47,059
they are living
on the edge as such.
602
00:28:48,894 --> 00:28:51,480
MARIANA: But Craig Lang is
not the only American whose
603
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,232
beliefs have
brought him to Ukraine.
604
00:28:54,232 --> 00:28:58,612
This 2018 footage is from an
MMA event here in Kyiv hosted
605
00:28:58,612 --> 00:29:02,783
by one of the country's most
notorious far-right militias.
606
00:29:02,783 --> 00:29:05,077
The event brought together
white supremacist from
607
00:29:05,077 --> 00:29:07,746
across Europe and the U. S.
608
00:29:07,746 --> 00:29:10,248
One of the featured
fighters was this man,
609
00:29:10,248 --> 00:29:12,501
American Robert Rundo.
610
00:29:12,501 --> 00:29:16,004
An infamous figure in
white supremacist circles
611
00:29:16,004 --> 00:29:18,632
who's been on the run
from American authorities.
612
00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:23,095
In fact, I heard rumors that
he might still be in Kyiv,
613
00:29:23,095 --> 00:29:25,180
but I end up
tracking him down,
614
00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:26,974
600 miles south of here.
615
00:29:26,974 --> 00:29:27,849
MAN: Come on.
616
00:29:27,849 --> 00:29:29,101
MARIANA: In Belgrade, Serbia.
617
00:29:29,101 --> 00:29:30,560
MAN: Come on. Come on!
618
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,814
MARIANA: Finally, an
American willing to talk.
619
00:29:44,366 --> 00:29:49,871
♪ ♪
620
00:29:50,205 --> 00:29:52,541
(panting)
621
00:29:53,542 --> 00:29:55,293
MARIANA: Would you say
you're a white supremacist?
622
00:29:55,293 --> 00:29:57,045
ROBERT: No, I would say
I'm a white nationalist,
623
00:29:57,045 --> 00:29:58,296
100% though.
624
00:29:58,296 --> 00:29:59,423
Big difference.
625
00:29:59,423 --> 00:30:01,049
You know, when you
say white supremacists,
626
00:30:01,049 --> 00:30:02,426
you make it sound
like all I want to do
is step on other people.
627
00:30:02,426 --> 00:30:03,844
When I say I'm a
white nationalist,
628
00:30:03,844 --> 00:30:05,512
it's just that I want a
better future for my people.
629
00:30:05,512 --> 00:30:08,223
Yeah, I say some stuff that's
a little edgy or whatever,
630
00:30:08,223 --> 00:30:09,516
but am I killing people?
631
00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:10,392
Am I doing anything like this,
632
00:30:10,392 --> 00:30:11,393
am I promoting to kill?
633
00:30:11,393 --> 00:30:13,020
No.
634
00:30:13,020 --> 00:30:13,937
MARIANA: Sure,
but you still have
Nazi tattoos in your body.
635
00:30:13,937 --> 00:30:14,813
ROBERT: Well, I
went to prison,
636
00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:16,523
you know, so, you know.
637
00:30:16,523 --> 00:30:17,524
MARIANA: I asked you because
I don't think you were even
638
00:30:17,524 --> 00:30:18,817
trying to hide
the fact, right?
639
00:30:18,817 --> 00:30:19,985
ROBERT: I don't hide the fact.
MARIANA: I mean.
640
00:30:19,985 --> 00:30:21,611
ROBERT: No, I'm an,
I'm a white nationalist.
641
00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:23,864
I'm, for sure,
I'm a nationalist,
you know, what can I say?
642
00:30:23,864 --> 00:30:25,532
Well, maybe you
should look at, like,
643
00:30:25,532 --> 00:30:27,242
the product that,
of the environment I
grew in before, like,
644
00:30:27,242 --> 00:30:28,910
you guys want to
demonize me and make me this.
645
00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:30,245
(boat horn wailing)
646
00:30:30,245 --> 00:30:32,372
MARIANA: Robert Rundo's
odyssey began in
647
00:30:32,372 --> 00:30:35,625
Queens, New York, where
he grew up in a rough,
648
00:30:35,625 --> 00:30:37,544
working class neighborhood.
649
00:30:37,544 --> 00:30:40,088
As a teenager, he
joined a local gang and
650
00:30:40,088 --> 00:30:43,842
in 2009 went to
prison for three years
651
00:30:43,842 --> 00:30:47,054
for stabbing a
rival member of MS-13.
652
00:30:47,054 --> 00:30:48,597
(shouting)
653
00:30:48,597 --> 00:30:52,434
But Rundo captured
national attention in 2017.
654
00:30:52,434 --> 00:30:54,394
MAN: (bleep).
655
00:30:54,394 --> 00:30:56,730
REPORTER (over TV):
That's Robert Rundo
beating a counter protester.
656
00:30:56,730 --> 00:30:59,816
REPORTER 2 (over TV):
The FBI says Rundo is
a founding member of
657
00:30:59,816 --> 00:31:01,860
a white supremacy
extremist group,
658
00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:03,862
headquartered in
Southern California
659
00:31:03,862 --> 00:31:05,322
known as RAM.
660
00:31:05,322 --> 00:31:06,823
ROBERT (over phone):
If anyone wants to know,
661
00:31:06,823 --> 00:31:08,825
this is what we're about,
it's Rise Above Movement.
662
00:31:08,825 --> 00:31:12,245
MARIANA: Rundo tells me
RAM promoted clean living and
663
00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:16,124
self-pride for white youth,
but the truth is they also
664
00:31:16,124 --> 00:31:20,378
denounced immigration and the
very idea of multiculturalism
665
00:31:20,378 --> 00:31:23,799
by spreading racist and
anti-Semitic propaganda
666
00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:25,509
on social media.
667
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:28,136
When RAM started showing
up at political rallies,
668
00:31:28,136 --> 00:31:30,555
violently clashing
with protestors,
669
00:31:30,555 --> 00:31:32,933
the FBI got involved.
670
00:31:32,933 --> 00:31:36,103
Some members were arrested
and faced criminal charges
671
00:31:36,103 --> 00:31:38,355
that were
eventually dismissed.
672
00:31:38,355 --> 00:31:42,859
Rundo is facing his
own criminal charges of
inciting a riot and yet
673
00:31:42,859 --> 00:31:45,237
remains in Europe in hiding.
674
00:31:45,237 --> 00:31:47,197
I know you consider
yourself a nationalist.
675
00:31:47,197 --> 00:31:48,657
Do you consider
yourself a racist as well?
676
00:31:48,657 --> 00:31:50,075
ROBERT: I'm a
race-realist, sure.
677
00:31:50,075 --> 00:31:51,326
Like, I, I, I, you know,
678
00:31:51,326 --> 00:31:52,577
I understand that
we're all different.
679
00:31:52,577 --> 00:31:53,912
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
ROBERT: That's fine.
680
00:31:53,912 --> 00:31:55,372
I don't think there's
anything wrong with that.
681
00:31:55,372 --> 00:31:57,499
MARIANA: I think 99% of the
population out there would
682
00:31:57,499 --> 00:31:59,376
have an issue with
being called a racist and
683
00:31:59,376 --> 00:32:01,086
you're just,
you're embracing it?
684
00:32:01,086 --> 00:32:03,505
ROBERT: Uh, I
don't really talk
about other races, really.
685
00:32:03,505 --> 00:32:05,882
I just want to see
the best for my people.
686
00:32:05,882 --> 00:32:07,592
Rise Above Movement
was about us.
687
00:32:07,592 --> 00:32:08,969
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
ROBERT: Just for us.
688
00:32:08,969 --> 00:32:10,387
MARIANA: So, why do you
think they came after you?
689
00:32:10,387 --> 00:32:11,763
ROBERT: Because we
did something appealing.
690
00:32:11,763 --> 00:32:12,764
We don't look like you're,
691
00:32:12,764 --> 00:32:14,808
what the media
likes to portray.
692
00:32:14,808 --> 00:32:16,893
We look like we could
be in the mainstream.
693
00:32:16,893 --> 00:32:19,938
And you'd be surprised how
many people share our views
694
00:32:19,938 --> 00:32:21,314
and stuff like this.
695
00:32:21,314 --> 00:32:24,109
MARIANA: Rundo is
slippery about his end goals,
696
00:32:24,109 --> 00:32:26,403
but his brand of
white supremacy sounds
697
00:32:26,403 --> 00:32:30,615
different than the
masked extremists and
the neo-Nazis I've met.
698
00:32:30,615 --> 00:32:32,576
When you speak to
James Mason, for example,
699
00:32:32,576 --> 00:32:35,328
he's proud of being a Nazi,
but then when you speak to
700
00:32:35,328 --> 00:32:39,499
somebody like Rundo
he uses these words that
are much more palatable.
701
00:32:39,499 --> 00:32:41,293
Now, who do you
think is more dangerous?
702
00:32:41,293 --> 00:32:43,170
CHRISTIAN: I think
that Rundo and Mason
speak to different audiences.
703
00:32:43,170 --> 00:32:44,254
MARIANA: Right.
704
00:32:44,254 --> 00:32:45,088
CHRISTIAN: But
the goal is the same.
705
00:32:45,088 --> 00:32:46,214
But outside, the suits that
706
00:32:46,214 --> 00:32:47,340
they wear are
much different...
707
00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:48,425
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
CHRISTIAN: Right?
708
00:32:48,425 --> 00:32:50,010
I think somebody
like Rundo is dangerous
709
00:32:50,010 --> 00:32:53,972
because he can go
after the middle.
710
00:32:53,972 --> 00:32:55,807
The middle is
the recruiting pool.
711
00:32:57,225 --> 00:32:59,394
MAN: Ready? Let's roll.
712
00:32:59,394 --> 00:33:00,812
ROBERT: What's going on guys?
713
00:33:00,812 --> 00:33:02,480
Rob Rundo here with the
guidelines to Rise Project.
714
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,483
Uh, another
weekly video update.
715
00:33:05,483 --> 00:33:08,528
MARIANA: And that's
exactly what Rundo is doing.
716
00:33:08,528 --> 00:33:11,531
He's continuing to build
an online following around
717
00:33:11,531 --> 00:33:14,618
the shared sense
of white resentment.
718
00:33:14,618 --> 00:33:15,952
ROBERT (over phone): Your
skin is your uniform, man.
719
00:33:15,952 --> 00:33:17,621
You don't need to
be super explicit.
720
00:33:17,621 --> 00:33:18,622
You don't need to be edgy.
721
00:33:18,622 --> 00:33:19,789
Trust me.
722
00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:21,583
They'll, they'll
hate you regardless.
723
00:33:21,583 --> 00:33:22,792
MAN: Come on, come on.
724
00:33:22,792 --> 00:33:25,295
MARIANA: Rundo's
strategy might be working.
725
00:33:25,295 --> 00:33:28,048
I wasn't the only American
from Southern California
726
00:33:28,048 --> 00:33:30,383
spending time
with Rundo in Serbia.
727
00:33:30,383 --> 00:33:31,968
(grunting)
728
00:33:31,968 --> 00:33:35,055
MARIANA: His sparring partner
flew here from San Diego
729
00:33:35,055 --> 00:33:37,265
inspired by
Rundo's presence online.
730
00:33:37,265 --> 00:33:38,141
MAN: Good.
731
00:33:38,141 --> 00:33:39,226
ROBERT: Last in the gas tank.
732
00:33:39,226 --> 00:33:40,310
MARIANA: What do
you think of RAM?
733
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:42,896
MAN: I think that RAM is, uh,
734
00:33:42,896 --> 00:33:46,191
one of the most
inspirational things in the
American Nationalist scene.
735
00:33:46,191 --> 00:33:49,277
You know, I only have positive
things to say about Rob.
736
00:33:50,820 --> 00:33:53,406
MARIANA: On the spectrum of
right-wing extremist groups,
737
00:33:53,406 --> 00:33:56,660
Rundo is like a gateway drug.
738
00:33:56,660 --> 00:34:00,205
He calls his white supremacy,
white nationalism and
739
00:34:00,205 --> 00:34:02,707
disguises his racism as pride.
740
00:34:03,083 --> 00:34:06,795
It's a soft pitch,
tailored for the mainstream.
741
00:34:06,795 --> 00:34:08,880
ROBERT: I think there's a
strong nationalist movement
742
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,090
happening everywhere.
743
00:34:10,090 --> 00:34:11,633
People want to
be heard, you know,
744
00:34:11,633 --> 00:34:14,094
and eventually they'll look
for alternatives to be heard.
745
00:34:14,094 --> 00:34:17,013
MARIANA: Increasingly, it
seems those alternatives in
746
00:34:17,013 --> 00:34:20,058
the U. S. are not
overtly hateful.
747
00:34:20,058 --> 00:34:23,061
You see, the white supremacy
movement learned from the
748
00:34:23,061 --> 00:34:27,899
backlash to the 2017
Unite The Right rally
in Charlottesville.
749
00:34:27,899 --> 00:34:32,028
No one wants to be seen
publicly as a racist.
750
00:34:33,029 --> 00:34:35,907
The movement still depends on
the same misinformation and
751
00:34:35,907 --> 00:34:39,160
conspiracy theories
like the Great Replacement,
752
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,830
but their hate
has been laundered.
753
00:34:41,830 --> 00:34:43,873
Their pitch, reframed.
754
00:34:43,873 --> 00:34:46,543
Now, it's not about
attacking immigrants,
755
00:34:46,543 --> 00:34:50,755
or Blacks, or Jews, it's
about defending white culture.
756
00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:55,010
We see it with
Rundo and back home,
757
00:34:55,010 --> 00:34:58,054
we see it with groups
like the Proud Boys.
758
00:34:58,054 --> 00:34:59,681
ALL: Proud boys.
759
00:34:59,681 --> 00:35:04,352
(cheering)
760
00:35:08,064 --> 00:35:13,945
♪ ♪
761
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,574
(car horns honking)
762
00:35:17,574 --> 00:35:19,367
(cheering)
763
00:35:19,367 --> 00:35:21,119
ENRIQUE: We're not
looking for trouble.
764
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:23,913
We just want to
wave our flags and
765
00:35:23,913 --> 00:35:25,957
we want to send our message.
766
00:35:25,957 --> 00:35:27,542
We don't ask you
what color you are or
767
00:35:27,542 --> 00:35:28,335
what religion you are.
768
00:35:28,335 --> 00:35:29,252
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
769
00:35:29,252 --> 00:35:30,545
ENRIQUE: Or what
your culture is.
770
00:35:30,545 --> 00:35:32,172
It doesn't matter to us.
771
00:35:32,172 --> 00:35:34,966
The tenets are
what matters to us and
that you believe that,
772
00:35:34,966 --> 00:35:38,345
you know, Western civilization
is the best civilization.
773
00:35:38,345 --> 00:35:40,847
MARIANA: This
is Enrique Tarrio,
774
00:35:40,847 --> 00:35:43,016
leader of "The Proud Boys."
775
00:35:43,016 --> 00:35:46,353
An all-male political
organization that claims to
776
00:35:46,353 --> 00:35:48,605
defend Western culture.
777
00:35:48,605 --> 00:35:52,275
Like Rundo, the group
claims not to be racist,
778
00:35:52,275 --> 00:35:56,112
but many members wear symbols
and use gestures associated
779
00:35:56,112 --> 00:35:58,239
with white supremacy.
780
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,326
Proud Boys from all across
the country have descended on
781
00:36:01,326 --> 00:36:05,163
Portland today to organize a
protest and they've given me
782
00:36:05,163 --> 00:36:07,957
unique backstage access.
783
00:36:07,957 --> 00:36:10,126
One of the worries about the
presence of the Proud Boys
784
00:36:10,126 --> 00:36:14,089
here is just that it increases
the chance of violence, right?
785
00:36:14,089 --> 00:36:15,840
ENRIQUE: Hmm.
786
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,385
MARIANA: Of
confrontations that turn
violent which has happened.
787
00:36:18,385 --> 00:36:20,720
JOE (over speaker): It
echoes around the world that
788
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,305
we love this
(bleep) country and
789
00:36:22,305 --> 00:36:24,391
we're never gonna
(bleep) back down,
790
00:36:24,391 --> 00:36:28,061
and we're going to stand
up to anybody that tries
to (bleep) with us, roger?
791
00:36:28,061 --> 00:36:28,978
Let's do this.
792
00:36:28,978 --> 00:36:30,897
(cheering)
793
00:36:30,897 --> 00:36:33,692
MARIANA: Joe Biggs is
another leader of the group.
794
00:36:33,692 --> 00:36:35,443
He's an army veteran
who fought in
795
00:36:35,443 --> 00:36:38,697
the 82nd Airborne in
Iraq and Afghanistan.
796
00:36:38,697 --> 00:36:40,490
JOE (over speaker):
I (bleep) fought overseas...
797
00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:41,741
MAN: Thank you for service!
798
00:36:41,741 --> 00:36:42,575
JOE (over speaker):
For years and years.
799
00:36:42,575 --> 00:36:43,993
MAN 2: Yeah.
800
00:36:43,993 --> 00:36:45,286
JOE (over speaker): I
didn't fight for Florida.
801
00:36:45,286 --> 00:36:47,664
I fought for the
United States of America.
802
00:36:47,664 --> 00:36:50,917
That means every city in this
country is my (bleep) city and
803
00:36:50,917 --> 00:36:52,711
your city, and your city.
804
00:36:52,711 --> 00:36:53,837
(cheering)
805
00:36:53,837 --> 00:36:56,464
ALL: USA. USA. USA.
806
00:36:56,464 --> 00:36:59,759
MARIANA: The Proud Boys formed
in 2016 to push back against
807
00:36:59,759 --> 00:37:02,887
political correctness
and what they allege is
808
00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:04,514
the white-guilt agenda
809
00:37:04,514 --> 00:37:06,182
of the left.
810
00:37:06,182 --> 00:37:10,311
They now claim as many as
12,000 members nationwide,
811
00:37:10,311 --> 00:37:13,815
who believe Western
civilization is under siege
812
00:37:13,815 --> 00:37:16,234
and that the media
is part of the problem.
813
00:37:16,234 --> 00:37:17,193
(shouting)
814
00:37:26,077 --> 00:37:28,580
MARIANA: They saw a journalist
that they believe is from CNN,
815
00:37:28,580 --> 00:37:31,541
basically mob mentality,
kicking that journalist out.
816
00:37:31,541 --> 00:37:33,418
But this is what
happens in events like this.
817
00:37:33,418 --> 00:37:35,670
You know, they can say this
is peaceful all they want,
818
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:38,423
but this is what we've
been seeing happening again,
819
00:37:38,423 --> 00:37:40,008
and again, and again.
820
00:37:40,008 --> 00:37:43,136
Moments later, we
become the target.
821
00:37:43,136 --> 00:37:44,679
MARIANA: Hey, hey, hey.
MAN: Whoa, whoa, hey.
822
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:45,555
MARIANA: Hey, hey, hey, hey.
MAN: Hey, hey, hey, come on.
823
00:37:45,555 --> 00:37:46,431
We're...
824
00:37:46,431 --> 00:37:47,265
Get the (bleep) out of here.
825
00:38:08,286 --> 00:38:09,871
CHRISTIAN: By
their own definition
the Proud Boys are a
826
00:38:09,871 --> 00:38:11,998
Western chauvinist
organization.
827
00:38:11,998 --> 00:38:13,374
And, uh, and if
you take away the,
828
00:38:13,374 --> 00:38:15,710
the wrapping paper
of those flowery words,
829
00:38:15,710 --> 00:38:19,547
Western chauvinist means
European power, right?
830
00:38:19,547 --> 00:38:20,882
Or white power.
831
00:38:20,882 --> 00:38:23,760
You know, they don't
look like white supremacists
832
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,680
or neo-Nazis, but they've
done a good job of shielding
833
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,183
who they truly are
and even in some cases,
834
00:38:30,183 --> 00:38:33,728
having members
who are not white,
be part of their group.
835
00:38:33,728 --> 00:38:35,146
MARIANA: Including
their own leader.
836
00:38:35,146 --> 00:38:37,065
CHRISTIAN: Including,
including their now leader.
837
00:38:37,065 --> 00:38:38,650
Right.
838
00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:41,110
DR. ERROLL: We call him their
"one not-white guy," so okay.
839
00:38:41,110 --> 00:38:46,241
These groups are really
good at appealing to the
guy and girl next door.
840
00:38:46,241 --> 00:38:48,076
They start
asking those questions.
841
00:38:48,076 --> 00:38:50,078
"Do you feel like
you're losing your country?
842
00:38:50,078 --> 00:38:51,371
Do you have that job?
843
00:38:51,371 --> 00:38:52,622
Did you get that car?
844
00:38:52,622 --> 00:38:53,498
Are you buying that home?
845
00:38:53,498 --> 00:38:54,374
You know why you're not?
846
00:38:54,374 --> 00:38:55,458
Because of them.
847
00:38:55,458 --> 00:38:56,793
It's because of them.
848
00:38:56,793 --> 00:39:00,004
There's no grey area here,
you're either for them,
849
00:39:00,004 --> 00:39:02,340
or for us, and yourself."
850
00:39:02,340 --> 00:39:04,008
MAN: Bring it in.
Bring it in tight.
851
00:39:04,008 --> 00:39:05,343
One, two, three.
852
00:39:05,343 --> 00:39:06,886
DR. ERROLL: Now, once
that starts to take hold,
853
00:39:06,886 --> 00:39:09,222
you've got this, what I call,
enabling community.
854
00:39:09,222 --> 00:39:10,682
(cheering)
855
00:39:10,682 --> 00:39:14,394
MARIANA: This is the slippery
slope of radicalization.
856
00:39:14,394 --> 00:39:18,648
As the anger intensifies,
as the lies and hate spread,
857
00:39:18,648 --> 00:39:20,942
and mix with other ideologies,
858
00:39:20,942 --> 00:39:25,029
the possibility of extreme
violence becomes very real.
859
00:39:26,072 --> 00:39:30,326
And on January 6th, 2021, we
witnessed what happens when
860
00:39:30,326 --> 00:39:33,913
groups like the Proud Boys
and others are mobilized.
861
00:39:33,913 --> 00:39:38,084
And the anger, lies,
and conspiracies move from
862
00:39:38,084 --> 00:39:40,712
the digital world
into the real one.
863
00:39:40,712 --> 00:39:44,048
(shouting)
864
00:39:48,094 --> 00:39:50,263
♪ ♪
865
00:39:50,263 --> 00:39:52,473
(shouting)
866
00:39:52,473 --> 00:39:53,516
MAN: They're
climbing up the wall!
867
00:39:55,226 --> 00:39:56,561
(cheering)
868
00:40:00,648 --> 00:40:04,903
(shouting)
869
00:40:06,946 --> 00:40:09,616
MARIANA: Like most Americans,
I was horrified by the attack
870
00:40:09,616 --> 00:40:13,411
on our nation's capital by a
mob of right-wing extremists.
871
00:40:16,831 --> 00:40:17,665
(cheering)
872
00:40:22,128 --> 00:40:23,755
MARIANA: What shocked
me even more was that
873
00:40:23,755 --> 00:40:26,549
I personally knew
one of the attackers.
874
00:40:26,549 --> 00:40:27,926
JOE: Who's (bleep) ready?
875
00:40:27,926 --> 00:40:29,427
(cheering)
876
00:40:29,427 --> 00:40:31,304
MARIANA: It was only weeks
earlier that I spent time with
877
00:40:31,304 --> 00:40:35,475
Joe Biggs and listened
to him as he passionately
defended law and order
878
00:40:35,475 --> 00:40:37,810
and peaceful protests.
879
00:40:37,810 --> 00:40:41,648
Now, he's been arrested under
suspicion that he helped plan
880
00:40:41,648 --> 00:40:44,901
the violent attempt to
overthrow our democracy.
881
00:40:48,655 --> 00:40:52,867
DR. ERROLL: We knew
something was going to
happen on January 6th.
882
00:40:52,867 --> 00:40:54,702
The intelligence
was overwhelming.
883
00:40:54,702 --> 00:40:57,664
They expected 20,000 people.
884
00:40:57,664 --> 00:40:59,207
People were going to be armed.
885
00:40:59,207 --> 00:41:01,834
They were going to
target members of Congress.
886
00:41:01,834 --> 00:41:04,504
MARIANA: Yet,
despite all these warnings
887
00:41:04,504 --> 00:41:07,924
the federal
response to Washington's
Black Lives Matter protest
888
00:41:07,924 --> 00:41:11,386
six months earlier was
significantly stronger.
889
00:41:11,386 --> 00:41:13,096
DR. ERROLL: At
the end of the day,
890
00:41:13,096 --> 00:41:15,098
it comes down to race.
891
00:41:15,098 --> 00:41:17,517
Race is the 800 pound
gorilla in the room.
892
00:41:17,517 --> 00:41:22,355
MARIANA: Even if the
capitol riot wasn't only
plotted by white supremacists,
893
00:41:22,355 --> 00:41:25,316
it's playing
perfectly into their hands.
894
00:41:25,316 --> 00:41:29,904
Re-energizing the same old
myths about white genocide.
895
00:41:29,904 --> 00:41:31,990
JAMES: The whites in this
country know it in their,
896
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:35,952
the depths of their soul that
they are being sold out and
897
00:41:35,952 --> 00:41:38,371
that they are
losing their country.
898
00:41:38,371 --> 00:41:40,832
MARIANA: Do you think
violence is justified?
899
00:41:40,832 --> 00:41:43,710
JAMES: Yes, you
can do two things.
900
00:41:43,710 --> 00:41:47,839
You can give it up,
lay down, roll over,
901
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:49,215
or you can fight.
902
00:41:50,591 --> 00:41:52,468
ARTHUR: Once white voters
realize that their party
903
00:41:52,468 --> 00:41:55,847
can't win anymore,
they're going to start
looking for alternatives.
904
00:41:55,847 --> 00:41:58,141
And if they really
want another solution,
905
00:41:58,141 --> 00:42:00,435
they will
eventually come to us.
906
00:42:01,769 --> 00:42:03,646
MARIANA: It wasn't
just America's extremists
907
00:42:03,646 --> 00:42:05,523
who felt this way.
908
00:42:05,523 --> 00:42:08,359
White supremacists
around the world let out
909
00:42:08,359 --> 00:42:10,987
a collective cheer
on social media.
910
00:42:12,238 --> 00:42:14,490
Even Robert Rundo weighed in.
911
00:42:17,118 --> 00:42:19,579
It seems to me like
there's a fire spreading.
912
00:42:19,579 --> 00:42:21,873
Do you think it's
too late to stop this?
913
00:42:21,873 --> 00:42:23,541
MOLLIE: It is not too late.
914
00:42:23,541 --> 00:42:25,418
(screaming)
915
00:42:25,418 --> 00:42:28,254
The threat looks different
than it did two decades ago
916
00:42:28,254 --> 00:42:32,508
and we need to adapt our
security apparatus to be able
917
00:42:32,508 --> 00:42:34,093
to counter this threat.
918
00:42:37,263 --> 00:42:40,141
MARIANA: For 20 years, Islamic
extremists groups have been
919
00:42:40,141 --> 00:42:42,727
designated foreign
terrorist organizations
920
00:42:42,727 --> 00:42:44,687
by the U. S. government.
921
00:42:44,687 --> 00:42:47,690
This designation
gives American law
enforcement agents a
922
00:42:47,690 --> 00:42:51,569
far greater ability to
monitor their communications
923
00:42:51,569 --> 00:42:55,531
and prosecute these groups
for what they are, terrorists.
924
00:42:56,824 --> 00:42:59,702
If Arthur and the NSO
were Muslim extremists,
925
00:42:59,702 --> 00:43:02,330
this video would be illegal.
926
00:43:02,330 --> 00:43:04,665
The FBI would be
knocking on Arthur's door
927
00:43:04,665 --> 00:43:07,085
and potentially
putting him in jail.
928
00:43:07,085 --> 00:43:10,129
But right now, there is no
federal statute that labels
929
00:43:10,129 --> 00:43:13,925
white supremacists groups
as domestic terrorists.
930
00:43:13,925 --> 00:43:18,387
CHRISTOPHER: That attack, that
siege was criminal behavior,
931
00:43:18,387 --> 00:43:20,640
plain and simple, and
it's behavior that we,
932
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,892
the FBI, view as
domestic terrorism.
933
00:43:22,892 --> 00:43:24,310
It's got no place.
934
00:43:24,310 --> 00:43:26,521
MARIANA: In testimony,
before Congress, FBI Director
935
00:43:26,521 --> 00:43:29,232
Christopher Wray
made a point of saying that
936
00:43:29,232 --> 00:43:32,110
his agency takes the
domestic terror threat as
937
00:43:32,110 --> 00:43:35,321
seriously as it
takes ISIS or Al Qaeda,
938
00:43:35,321 --> 00:43:37,448
but he also said this.
939
00:43:37,448 --> 00:43:38,449
CHRISTOPHER: As
I've said many times,
940
00:43:38,449 --> 00:43:40,368
we do not
investigate ideology,
941
00:43:40,368 --> 00:43:42,036
but we focus on
acts of violence,
942
00:43:42,036 --> 00:43:44,288
and violations of federal law.
943
00:43:44,288 --> 00:43:47,750
MARIANA: If
that's the threshold,
white supremacy extremists
944
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:50,211
have plenty of
room to operate.
945
00:43:50,211 --> 00:43:52,505
They can spread their hate,
946
00:43:52,505 --> 00:43:55,049
they can recruit,
and radicalize.
947
00:43:55,049 --> 00:43:57,468
And until they do
something illegal,
948
00:43:57,468 --> 00:43:59,428
like shoot up a Walmart,
949
00:43:59,428 --> 00:44:02,098
they are free
to live among us,
950
00:44:02,098 --> 00:44:04,559
festering until they pop.
951
00:44:05,726 --> 00:44:08,062
For me, you sort of represent
that light at the end of
952
00:44:08,062 --> 00:44:10,565
the tunnel because you are
somebody that was radicalized
953
00:44:10,565 --> 00:44:12,150
and then managed
to get out of it.
954
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:15,611
CHRISTIAN: We were taught that
the world was hostile to us
955
00:44:15,611 --> 00:44:17,446
and what I eventually saw.
956
00:44:17,446 --> 00:44:18,823
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
957
00:44:18,823 --> 00:44:20,658
CHRISTIAN: Uh, was that
the world was nothing like
958
00:44:20,658 --> 00:44:23,661
what I had been sold
for those eight years.
959
00:44:23,661 --> 00:44:26,455
MARIANA: Christian explains
that his own de-radicalization
960
00:44:26,455 --> 00:44:29,709
took place at
the record store
he owned at the time.
961
00:44:29,709 --> 00:44:31,002
CHRISTIAN: And it was the
first time I had meaningful
962
00:44:31,002 --> 00:44:32,378
interactions with
people who were Jewish,
963
00:44:32,378 --> 00:44:34,005
who were Black, who were gay.
964
00:44:34,005 --> 00:44:36,591
Uh, and because I wanted
to be a good businessperson,
965
00:44:36,591 --> 00:44:37,842
when they were in my store.
966
00:44:37,842 --> 00:44:38,718
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
967
00:44:38,718 --> 00:44:39,969
CHRISTIAN: Uh,
I bit my tongue.
968
00:44:39,969 --> 00:44:41,971
And then, over time, uh,
it started to win over,
969
00:44:41,971 --> 00:44:43,890
the fact that I had more
respect for the people that
970
00:44:43,890 --> 00:44:44,849
I had hated.
971
00:44:44,849 --> 00:44:46,559
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
972
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:48,603
CHRISTIAN: Than I did
with the people I had
surrounded myself with.
973
00:44:48,603 --> 00:44:52,982
MARIANA: Since then, he's
helped hundreds of people
disengage from extremism.
974
00:44:52,982 --> 00:44:54,901
CHRISTIAN: I would say I
get at least one request
975
00:44:54,901 --> 00:44:56,194
for help a day.
976
00:44:56,194 --> 00:44:57,403
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
CHRISTIAN: Sometimes multiple.
977
00:44:57,403 --> 00:44:59,655
Text messages,
social media messages,
978
00:44:59,655 --> 00:45:03,201
phone calls, people find
me from all over the world.
979
00:45:03,201 --> 00:45:04,035
And if I can change...
980
00:45:04,035 --> 00:45:05,286
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
981
00:45:05,286 --> 00:45:06,704
CHRISTIAN: I know that
other people can too.
982
00:45:11,751 --> 00:45:13,920
GILBERT: I don't think the
proper way of handling things
983
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,546
by killing each other.
984
00:45:15,546 --> 00:45:16,756
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
985
00:45:16,756 --> 00:45:17,840
GILBERT: Or, or saying,
"I'm better than you."
986
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,342
And boom.
987
00:45:19,342 --> 00:45:22,720
What makes you
better than other,
other human beings?
988
00:45:23,846 --> 00:45:27,600
We're all equal in God's eyes.
989
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,060
I guess that's
the way I see it.
990
00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:31,020
MARIANA: Mm-hmm.
991
00:45:31,729 --> 00:45:33,314
Before I said goodbye,
992
00:45:33,314 --> 00:45:35,608
Gilbert Anchondo
pulled me aside.
993
00:45:35,608 --> 00:45:38,778
He told me he's
forgiven his son's killer,
994
00:45:38,778 --> 00:45:42,031
but not what's inside him.
995
00:45:42,031 --> 00:45:45,701
And what's inside
him is still out there.
996
00:45:45,701 --> 00:45:49,163
Radicalizing and recruiting.
997
00:45:49,163 --> 00:45:52,041
DR. ERROLL: It's like
any other form of terrorism,
998
00:45:52,041 --> 00:45:53,668
you will never eliminate it.
999
00:45:53,668 --> 00:45:56,337
The metric of success
in dealing with this
1000
00:45:56,337 --> 00:45:59,131
domestic terrorism
is can we contain it?
1001
00:45:59,131 --> 00:46:02,760
The good news about that
is we know who they are.
1002
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,931
The hoods and the
robes have come off,
and we have to respond.
1003
00:46:06,931 --> 00:46:07,974
Captioned by
Cotter Media Group.