Okay
Where were these found, guys?
Green one on the left side there
red one on the right side
- "231" - 231
"Don't let nobody come up here don't want nobody in here"
"The police in West Memphis, Arkansas"
"confirmed today that three young boys were brutally murdered"
"The bodies of Weaver Elementary second graders"
"Stephen Branch, Christopher Byers and Michael Moore"
"were pulled from a shallow creek earlier today"
"There are rumors that the boys may have been sexually mutilated"
"The police say that they do not yet have any suspects of the case"
"The missing 8 year old boys were discovered in an area"
"known as Robin Hood Hills"
"a secluded patch of hills behind the Blur Beacon Truck Watch"
"along Interstate 40 in West Memphis"
"Moon is full never seems to change"
"Just labeled mentally deranged"
"Imagine all the evil that you could think of"
"to how someone could be murdered"
"And that's how these three children died"
- "No things to make my brain seem" - "No family should have to go"
"through this. Unfortunately, it's gonna happen again somewhere"
"Another town, it's gonna happen again, I'm sure"
- "They keep me locked up in this cage" - "Lot of bad people out there"
- "in the world" - "I don't know why these"
"three little boys were murdered"
"Did they see something they weren't supposed to see?"
"Did they hear things they weren't supposed to hear? I, I don't know that"
"I see no reason, I, I see no motive"
"for why these three little boys were murdered"
"Live from KAIT-8 TV"
"good neighbors you can turn to for news"
"weather and sports"
"Tony Brooks, Diana Davis"
"Terry Wood and Dick Clay"
"This is KAIT-8 News"
- Good evening, I'm Diana Davis - And I'm Tony Brooks
In a statement given to police and obtained by a Memphis newspaper
17 year old Jessie Misskelley
allegedly confesses to watching two other suspects choke
rape and sexually mutilate three West Memphis second graders
- Jenna Newton reports - "According to the published report"
"Misskelley told the police he watched"
"18 year old Damien Echols"
"and 16 years old Jason Baldwin"
"brutalize the children with a club and a knife"
"The reports says Misskelley told police"
"Echols and Baldwin raped one of the boys"
"and sexually mutilated another as part of a cult ritual"
"Misskelley is quoted as saying he did not"
"take part in the rape and mutilation"
"but that he helped subdue one victim who tried to escape"
"At a press conference Inspector Gary Gitchell"
"said the case against the accused teens is very strong"
Scale of one to ten how solid do you think the case is?
Eleven
"It appears Satanic worship may have played a role in the murders"
"Since the very beginning of the investigation"
"people all around West Memphis"
"have come forward with stories of Satanic cults"
Reverend Tommy Stacy's church
is down the street from where the bodies were found
One year ago Damien Echols told the church's youth minister
he had a pact with the devil and he was going to hell
I, I do know that my youth director
uh, talked to Damien extensively
at the revival that we had
and he told him that he could not be saved
that he could not give his heart to Jesus
And my youth director then tried to get him to take a Bible
and he made the statement that he could not take the Bible
because if he did, the rest of them would get him
In West Memphis, Jenna Newton KAIT-8 Night News
Christopher never hurt anybody
He had a gentle loving and giving heart
And they crucified him in those woods
"and they humiliated his little body"
They took his little manhood before he even knew what it was
And I hate them for it
I never hated anybody in my life
And I hate these three
And the mothers that bore them
I can't imagine
what was going through Michael's mind
You know, was he...
calling for me?
"How long did they leave him there tied up"
on that ditch bank before they decided to kill him
I mean, what were they doing to him?
Was he, was he conscious or unconscious?
Did he watch the other two boys
- get cut? - "He was really being killed"
"by real monsters"
God, I'm on TV
Now, Pam, first of all what is, uh
what are you holding in your hand
- In my hand, uh - what's the...
It's Stevie's Boy Scout
I got it back yesterday
And I been wearing it around my head, like this
Did he, did he like scouting?
Oh, he loved it, he loved it yeah. He loved it
"Do you blame yourself for this?"
I have, I have
I've been a, I've, I have been on a guilt trip about it
but, it wasn't my fault, I was at work
Have you contemplated joining Stevie
- uh, before your natural... - Have I thought
- Would I ever... - Have you though about suicide?
Have I? Oh
Uh...
Suicide?
I've, I've felt like dying, but not suicide
you know, no, not suicide
Do you feel that the people that were doing this were worshipping, uh...
Satan? Yes, I do
- Why? - And... Just look at the freaks
I mean, just look at them
They look like punks
Well, Jess told me he didn't do it
didn't have anything to do with it he wasn't there
And I believe him
"I think the cops just can't find who done it"
and they gotta put it on somebody
I wanna tell the whole world, my son is innocent
because I know he is innocent
"I know where he was"
and I know he's innocent
and I wanna tell the world and I want the world to know
This boy is not capable
of the crime that he's uh, been arrested for
Uh, I've seen him take a little kitten
and, and love it just like you, you'd love a little baby
"It's like a nightmare"
"A nightmare that you can't wake up from"
Our son's innocent
We intend to prove it
"Yea, though I walk through the valley"
"of the shadow of death"
I shall fear no evil
And I'm not scared of the devil
I gotta know who my comforter is
Thy rod and thy staff comfort me
And I thank you, Lord, for letting me be able to believe in that with all my heart
"I hope ya'll really believe in your master the Satan"
Sleuthfoot, devil himself
cause he's not gonna help you
He's gonna laugh at you mock at you and torture you
He didn't need your help, the devil's got all the devils he needs
The good Lord said Lucifer and a third of the angels
were cast from heaven. He didn't need them
but he took their mind and he manipulated them
and they prayed to Satan and they prayed to the devil
and they had their Satanic worship services out here
and they had all types of wild homosexual orgies I've been told
Crazy things
To me, this place as I stand
is like hell on earth
Because I know that three babies
were killed right out here where I stand
I know my son was castrated
and possibly laid there on that bank and bled to death
I know he was choked
I know one boy's head was beat in beyond recognition
I know one little boy was skinned almost like a animal
Cut, had to shave his head, had...
all types of injuries to the head
where they just keep beating and pounding on him
and killing him and killing him
"It's like they enjoyed it"
"They killed him 2 or 3 times"
Jessie Misskelley Jr.
Jason Baldwin
Damien Echols
I hope your master the devil does take you soon
I want you to meet him real soon
And the day you die, I'm gonna praise God
And I make you a promise, the day you die
every year on May 5th
I'm gonna come to your graveside
I'm gonna spit on you
I'm gonna curse the day you were born
And I'm sure while I'm standing there
I'm gonna have to have other bodily functions
let go upon your grave
I promise you as God is my witness
I'll visit all three of your graves
The statement Jessie made to the police is...
is a lie, it's not true, you know
I don't see why he would do something like that to another person
I can see where they might think I was in a cult cause I wear Metallica T-shirts
and stuff like that, but...
I didn't do nothing like that
I couldn't kill an animal or a person
I don't worship the devil or anything like that
I worship God, you know, like everybody
every normal person in this
around here does. I got a favorite pet
a pet iguana
I've had it a little over a year now
I usually go fishing by myself right in my back yard
Just go out there and my pet cat would be out there
his name's Charlie
Whenever I catch a fish I just give it to him
I didn't kill there three little boys
I didn't kill these three little boys
They were under a lot of pressure
they had to find somebody
to lay this off on before people started losing their jobs
And the public was getting real upset
and saying the cops were incompetent
couldn't do their jobs, so they had to do something fast
And we were like, we were the obvious choice
because we stood out from everybody else
So it worked out to their advantage
No one's gonna be saying that you're stupid or that you're dump
or, or, or making fun of you
but the court should be very interested in determining
exactly what level you're functioning
uh, how well you're able to read
how well you're able to write, things of that nature
- Uh, huh. Mhmm - Does that make sense?
Okay, so, if the court determines that
that you're operating, uh, below average
then there's a possibility that the court will not be allowed
or the state will not be allowed to impose the death penalty against you
- Do you understand what that means? - Yeah
We've got about 10 weeks before the trial comes up in January
Yeah
Are you looking forward to having the trial?
A little bit, not much
- Hello - "Operator, I have a collect call"
- "your name, please?" - "Jessie"
- "Will you pay? Thank you" - Yes, ma'am
- Hey, son. How you doing? - "Hey"
- "Fine, I'm doing all right" - Doing all right, that's good
- "My hand still hurts" - Your hand still hurts?
- "Yeah" - Did you find out if it broke or not?
"No, I ain't found out"
"It, I can move it"
Well, if you can move it, it's not broke
"It, it, it hurts"
Well, if you can move it, it's not broke it's gonna hurt for a while
cause you bruised it pretty good
You just gotta learn not to hit them walls, his somebody else
- "You, there wasn't nobody" - Jack his jaw
- "in my room to hit" - Oh, okay
- "I just kept, I didn't hit the wall" - Why...
- "I hit the commode" - Hit the commode?
"Yeah, hit it on the side"
- Well, you can sure... - "Didn't even put a dent in it either"
- "That must be a hard commode, man" - I heard that
- "What time ya'll gonna come up?" - I don't know
"Ya'll can come up anytime cause ya'll be here with me"
Well, uh...
We'll see you Saturday
They're gonna have to go through the metal detector
when they come through the front door
Uh, every, I want everybody to do that
They've got that portable thing that they can bring from
Little Rock if you need it
Like the airport deal?
But we couldn't afford no 3000 dollar metal detector
so what I planned on doing was using two portables
at this door, that's why I wanted
all, everybody outside of lawyers
and I want them to come through this door
Yeah, there's a potential, uh, uh
problem area with the, the...
the strong feelings of the family
and, and that's to be understood
so security, not only coming in and out of the courtroom
is, is a problem, but, uh...
keeping the on lookers and the family
and, and people segregated from
from the, the accused is another problem
that you'll, you'll have Darwin
My intention was to bring this boy in
before, long before court
and have him inside
Obviously I'm very concerned about security
simply because of the death threats and other things that have happened
but, uh, I don't want to give the jury the impression
if we have 20 state troopers
and 50 county deputies
and, and, uh, it's gonna give the impression
to the jury that my client is a very dangerous person which he's not
And I don't want the jury to get the wrong impression
I don't want there to be such a circus in the courtroom
with reporters and cameras
that the jury forgets about what they're here for
and that is to administer justice
We expect the proof's going to show that this defendant confessed
that he was not coerced
uh...
they, we do not contend that the proof's going to show
that every word that came out of his mouth was the truth
Ladies and gentlemen, the jury
this statement that Mr. Misskelley gave the West Memphis Police Department
is a false story
The interrogation techniques that were deployed
against Mr. Misskelley at the time of his statement
on June the 3rd, rendered him
completely incapable
it, it broke his will, they scared him beyond all measures
The proof is going to show
that this defendant
was an accomplice to Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin
in the commission of these horrifying murders
and we will ask you
to return your verdict of guilty
on three counts of capital murder
"We don't know what the truth is"
But when it really gets down to brass tacks
his daddy and I are gonna look him square in the eyes
and say son, did you do this?
Did, was you even there?
That's when we will believe
Well, if he told me he did it
which I don't believe he did
but if he told me he did it
he'd have to do his time
Suffer the consequences
If admits to this, he would be strictly on his own
- We wouldn't even send him a dollar - No
- for a pack of cigarettes - No, no, you're wrong there
- Yes, we would. No - No, I would
He's my son
I'll send him money
- But he will have to do his time - This is...
I wouldn't give him a nickel
- He's my son - No, we could be
- talking about, we could be - He's my flesh and blood
talking about my son
- Well? - If my son did something that horrible
that, no, I wouldn't give him a nickel
- Let him suffer - You can't turn your blood away
I don't know how you say you could
and we're gonna have a problem over this
But I know how it is being up in there in jail without anything
Well, that's beside the point. If he, if he's guilty
if he's guilty of doing this to these three little boys
- No - He's not
Well, I'm saying he's not, too
but...
if he happens to be, if it's proven
no, forget it, no
- No - Well, I don't believe he did it
I'll never believe he did it
This is to Jessie Jr.
today's his 18th birthday
and I haven't seen him
I don't know where to go see him at
and we'll sing happy birthday to him
"Happy birthday to you"
"Happy birthday dear Jessie"
"Happy birthday to you"
"Happy birthday dear Jessie"
"Happy birthday to you"
And don't smoke too much
Now he's legal to get a...
Yeah, he's legal to smoke now
"I may not be his biological mother but giving birth don't make a parent"
And I've had him since he was 4
And, it took me about a year
to assure that little boy I was gonna be here for him
He wouldn't wanna go to school
he wouldn't wanna go outside and play
because he was afraid I wouldn't be here when, when he come in
And when he was in kindergarten if he happened to come in
and I happened to not be where he could see me
when he first come in, he'd be hysterical
when I got to him
And...
I've always known that...
he was...
he had a problem
And I...
I've always been real protective of him
Mom sent me this one
"There are all sorts of sons"
"Sons can be slouchy"
"Sons can be sweet"
"Sons can be grouchy"
"This is sons can be neat"
"Sons can be broke"
"Sons can be well to do"
"But no son could ever be loved more than you"
and it says happy birthday
I cry a lot when I'm in here cause I miss my family and everything
and, and I just cry a lot, you know
After that, I go to bed
try to sleep
"My name is Alice Sanders"
"My son was Antonio Sanders"
"and he got killed Halloween night 1990"
"My name is Brenda McLean and my brother was stabbed to death"
I'm Brenda East, and my son Robert
23 at the time, was murdered in 1990
My name's Ann Marlin, my daughter was Sheila Elrod Dixon
she was murdered January the 12th of 91
I'm Wanda Writning
my daughter was murdered
January 27th
we think, we're not sure
They're calling it a crime of passion
He not only throwed her out and let her lay two weeks
he poured acid on her to deteriorate her body
I didn't have the pleasure of...
telling my daughter goodbye
Funeral was a closed casket
This is what I had on the casket
and it's still very unreal to me
When the telephone rings I expect it to be her
My name is Todd Moore
My son was Michael Moore he was murdered along with
Christopher Byers and Stephen Branch, May 5th, 1993
I cannot describe the pain
that my family has went through, you know
they didn't just kill my son they killed a part of me
They killed a part of my wife, our daughter
I'm so frustrated because it seems like they have so much rights
we have no rights. Like it had in the paper the other day
now taxpayers of Crittenden County are gonna have to buy them a suit
because they don't want them to go into court
looking like what they are, criminals
They're in jail. They should wear jail clothes
Why do they need to have a nice suit bought by the county?
So they look presentable, they don't want them in shackles and chains
You know, these are not boys that murdered our kids
You know, they stopped being boys you know, when they planned this
and I hear, I sit there and watch their parents and stuff
coming out of court crying talking about their sons' rights
what about our son's rights?
Where in the hell was his rights out there on that ditch bank?
He had no rights. He had the rights to be brutally murdered
be beat to death, an 8 year old little boy
Where was his rights?
I'm Diane Moore, Michael Moore's mother
Last week in, in Flash market
the Echols man was in there, staring me down
Like it was my fault that I had a child
that his child could murder
We set in that big store we seen the people
that are supporting these people
that look at us like we're scum
And these other people are just
the greatest thing that they've ever known
And now they wanna to have him all just dressed up
and act like little choirboys in court and...
here you go, He didn't do anything wrong
My son didn't do anything wrong, he's just a boy
Now on June the 3rd, did you have a, an assignment to locate a particular person?
My assignment was to contact Jessie Misskelley Jr.
At that time was the defendant a suspect?
- No, sir - If he was not a suspect
why were you assigned to contact him?
He was a, a friend with, uh
friends with Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin
What if anything did he tell you
uh, during this conversation before the tape recording?
Okay, he has told us that he had attended some Satanic cult type meetings
That boys along with girls would attend
there would be sessions of sex
uh, orgies as he called them
Uh, that...
dogs and animals had been killed
and, in fact, those animals
portions of them have been eaten by the members
"I believe is there's angels on earth"
I believe there's demons on earth
And I believe there's angels try to help people
I believe demons try to possess
and hurt people to do the devil's will
just how angels try to help people to do God's will
"Oh, worship the king"
"of glorious above"
"and gratefully sing"
"his wonderful love"
- "Our children..." - "This time Mark is gonna sing a song"
"entitled Whatever it Takes"
a beautiful song, ya'll listen to him as he comes and shares. Mark
I believe the Lord is gonna direct me, guide me and lead me
And we're gonna give the glory to him
"There's a voice calling me"
"from an old rugged tree"
"And it whispers"
"draw closer to me"
"Lead this world far behind"
"there are no lights to blind"
"and a new place"
"in there you will find"
"For whatever it takes"
"to draw closer to the Lord"
"that's what I'll be willing to do"
"For whatever it takes"
"to be more like you"
"that's what I'll be willing to do"
- "I'll take sunshine..." - There's no doubt in your mind
that at about 5, 30 a.m. Jessie was sitting
- in that spot... - He was sitting right down here
I had seen the police over there twice
I'd also seen little Jessie over there and very competent
- and he, and he was talking to me - Police officer talked to him?
- Yes, sir - They had to find somebody
to pin this on
This publicity was getting out of hand
Could ask those folks inside to step out for just a second?
Uh, I know that I've talked to
to each of you, if not directly indirectly
We need to be very, very careful about
who we talk to with regard to the media involved in this case
there are several members of the media
who apparently have no ethics
and have decided that they're gonna do everything they can to dig up
mud and sling mud
it's not gonna do anything but hurt Jessie
and his chances of receiving a fair trial
You as, as friends of Jessie and relatives of Jessie
are prime targets for these members of the press
and if we just remember the one rule is
don't talk to anybody and we won't have to worry about it
Does that make sense?
So again I, I caution you not to talk to anybody
in the press, it's just gonna hurt us
- thanks - "grace"
"for my will to break"
"that's what"
"I'll be willing to do"
"That's what"
"I'll be willing to do"
Head it up
You know one thing I like about this right there black powder gun
is they can't pull any type of ballistics on it
if by some chance you was to shoot something with it
every bullet rifles through the chamber just a little bit different
So, they just can't pull no ballistics off this
There's a few people I wouldn't mind going on shooting with it
but, hopefully the courts and the justice system take care of them, but
they reach prison, they gonna get took care of
I told Todd I could save the state a lot of money
They'd just let me line those three son of a guns up
I'd say this one here's for you Jessie we gonna go for the jug of water
Oh, Jessie, I done blowed you half in two, son
Now this one here is for you Damien
you that black circle right in the middle
Oh, you got hurt
Damn, that sure looked painful, didn't it?
Yeah, hey, Jason
I want you to smile and blow me a kiss for this one
Now, let's go back to Jessie
I just wounded him, I want him to bleed
a little bit like he made my baby bleed
Oh, Jessie
Yeah, that breaks my heart thinking about that scum
Cause this right here's all that needs to be done to him
is just shot slowly
With a real nice firearm
and you ain't got no consideration or no feeling who it's aiming at
just like they didn't care about killing my baby
I'd be happy lining them up
I wouldn't have no problem with it
I think old Jessie's still kicking a little
Ya'll go ahead and put him out of this misery
What kind of, what kind of range we got in the courtroom?
Uh, probably about 10 foot right here
Go ahead and waste old Jessie
Don't see that being much of a problem
No
Cause I can just see the scum
That's good
Go ahead, he's wiggling
All right
Oh, I could live with that
During the course of these conversations
was anything shown to the defendant?
- Yes, sir - All right, what was shown to him?
Yeah, there was a picture that Inspector Gitchell showed him
Okay, and what was that a picture of?
of one of the victims
When I showed Jessie this photograph
and he took it into his hand
and he just, he just went back in his chair like this
And, and he just locked in on it
fixed in on the photograph and just kept staring at it
and staring at it
Initially, Mr. Misskelley
denied any involvement whatsoever in this, didn't he?
Yes, sir, he did
Officer Ridge
the photograph that was just introduced into evidence depicting
uh, one of the boys' bodies
- that was shown to Jessie? - Yes, sir
And this was immediately prior to him admitting
and telling you the story about being present when the boys were killed?
Shortly before, yes, sir
Why did you guys do that?
There had to be a reason to do that
There were times when Jessie would not be talking
he's, he's getting slower with information
he's, he's telling us things that are just
it's over and over the same thing
those techniques are used to evoke a response
You and Inspector Gitchell did these things to invoke a response
- Yes - Invoke a confession
Invoke a response, to keep him talking
Did it ever occur to you that Mr. Misskelley has a mental handicap?
No, sir. It didn't to me on that day
Do you have any special training dealing with people with mental handicaps?
- No, sir - Did it ever occur to you that
that this was gonna scare him showing him a picture of a body?
That it would scare him? I don't know
I, I guess, he's scared into making a statement. Yes, sir
"I, I'm getting nervous every day"
- Why? - "Why?"
- Oh - "Why?"
- Okay - "That's a stupid question"
- "Okay" - "I, boy, I can barely hold this phone"
"Well, it's just getting closer and closer and closer"
- I know - "I just, I don't wanna even"
"think about it. I can imagine what they're gonna do to me"
"I can imagine. But I'm not gonna think that though"
Think good thoughts, okay while I'm on the phone
- "Huh?" - Talk, talk about something good
- while I'm on the phone. Hey - "Yeah"
You're supposed to be talking to me, not your friends
"Well, we talking about something else"
"These people make me mad"
- "You know it?" - Uh, huh
"They, they get to go out and screw people and I can't"
Oh
"Well, ya'll do. But I can't do that"
Well, you will later
- "I will later?" - Mhmm
"How do you know?"
- "I mean, if I can get out we will..." - I know that
"but if I don't get out we won't"
"What I was gonna ask you that last, that Sunday?"
- "Uh, huh" - "That I had, I dreamed about you?"
- "Uh, huh" - "Yu won't believe what I was dreaming"
"It, it freaked me out Wanna hear it? Huh?"
Yeah
"We was, we was having sex, all right?"
- Okay - "We went to, we went to a bathroom"
"we had sex"
"We were, when I was going through, going uh, going out the front door"
"we had sex out there We're doing it out in the yard"
"in front of everybody, it freaked me out"
"I woke up. Boy, I was sweating bad"
"Man, I hope that dream come true quick"
"What are you donna do when you get off the phone?"
- Sneak back home - "Go back home"
- Uh, huh - "I'm gonna go back home too"
- "when I get off the phone" - I wish you could
- "Huh?" - I wish you could
"Yeah, well, my time's up, okay?"
- "Okay" - "I gotta go, okay"
- "Okay. I Love you too" - "Love you"
"Bye bye"
- Can you get it in there... - Yeah
I think those two ought to do fine
Yeah, I'm sure they will both
Yeah, this one's good this one came out
Okay
Oh
Be different from any other Christmas
Be one we'll never forget
Yeah, I know, it's the first one without him
Ah
Wish you could have been here to hear me sing lately
He liked to hear me sing
I think his little Christmas tree it'll stay there real well
It's in there tied enough, I don't think the wind will blow it over or anything
Come here, and kneel down here by me
Oh, God, why did you let this happen?
Please help us through it
God, please, help us through this
"This is a, uh, enlarged photograph of the crime scene"
This is the ditch where the bodies were found
Michael Moore was found in this area right here at the bottom of the screen
Steve Branch was found just, just behind where these trees are in the stream
and Christopher Byers was found just below that body right here
This is Exhibit 22
Which is the body of Michael Moore
after removing him from the water
the way he was found
This is the body of Steve Branch
Steve Branch is the young man that had the injuries to his face
Is it a particular part of his face?
On the left side, in there
State's Exhibit 24
the body of Christopher Byers
And what kind of injuries did Chris Byers have, that you observed?
It looked as though his penis had been removed
Could you see the pictures from where you were sitting?
Yeah, that's why I had to leave
Why?
Because I'm always alone with seeing my little boy the way he was
I'll always have that picture of what he looked like
- In my mind - But you never knew until now
You were worried early on that
that you said early on that you really didn't want to know
but now, you're hearing it. I mean, is it
a lot harder than what you thought it was gonna be, to hear?
It's a whole lot harder than I thought it would be
It's like going back to May 5th and reliving it all over again
Inspector Gitchell, let's talk about the things that, that
Jessie told you that are just absolutely incorrect
Now on page 9 of his statement
Inspector Gitchell, Jessie says that the murders took place around noon
how did you know that was incorrect?
Because the boys, the young boys were still in school
Did at any time when he was telling you these things
that you knew were incorrect
did it ever occur to you that what he was telling you was false
his entire story was false?
In Jessie's case I feel like he did tell us a good bit of the truth
but then they also lessen their activity in a statement
That's, uh, just common
at least in my 20 years' career...
Is it common for the police to simply ignore
these big obvious problems
and just assume that everything else that he's telling you
has, has gotta be correct?
Uh, Jessie simply got confused
"Uh, you and I can tell the cops"
that we know what our rights are and, uh
basically go to hell, we're not gonna sit here and take this and walk out
Jessie Misskelley has no concept of being able to leave a police station
I mean, the only thing that they, the prosecution has
has put on against Jessie is this wild story that he told the police
And I hope that the fact that there's no physical evidence linking him
him to the crime scene, is gonna have a lot of impact on the jury
And we're talking about reasonable doubt
- Uh... - But, but I think you need to deal with
the lack of physical evidence, not just
not, not just let them get away with the fact
that they were in the water and it all washed away
A crime scene that clean has to be purposefully planned
done that way
Okay, the, the, that the fact that it looked washed down
- was not just happenstance - Right, okay
- Okay, the, the, the... - That's probably something
- like you said we can, maybe... - Somebody, somebody
somebody intentionally
purposefully...
with great cunning and intelligence
tried to get, get rid of
every spot of blood, semen, uh
mud, footprint, anything that may have been there
they purposefully tried to get rid of all that
An 18 and a 17 and a 16 year old kid don't pull this off, no
Lot of, I think there's a lot of
professional killers who don't leave it this clean, you know
I really do believe that if the jury hears
what lust serial killers are like
and what they do and how they leave crime scenes
the missing evidence the souvenirs
I, I have no doubt where there's a serial killer around that
that did these murders, I have no doubt hell, he may be in Idaho now
But, I mean, I, I'm, I don't have any doubt about it, you know
you know, It's somebody who knew what they were doing
had done it before, and probably has done it since then or
or will definitely do it again
Are you aware of any personality traits
of people who are likely to possibly confess?
Low I.Q
Highly suggestible
always attempting to solve the immediate stress factor
Get the interrogators off my back
and just let me go home
Naively assumes that they can all straighten it out later on
It's extremely difficult
for the average person to believe
that someone would confess to a crime that they didn't do
and what I didn't like about this confession
is that most of it emanated from questions right off the bat
Without, without any narrative of any, any length at all
Without any descriptions about feelings
or conversations or anything
I, I just don't understand
uh, if he was in fact involved in this crime
how he made a mistake on the time factor
And the thing that really bothers me is the ligature
what was used to tie up the, the victims
now he certainly knows the difference between, uh...
shoelaces and a rope
That should have been a, a signal that something was radically wrong
that's when the questions should have been more probing
to determine whether or not he was making it up or giving a valid confession
Out of the 100 or more people that ya'll talked to
are you aware of anybody other than the defendant
who told you one of the victims
that had their genitals removed
and one of them had cuts to the side of the face
and it been some grabbing of the ears?
Uh, there was no one else that mentioned those particular injuries
and you yourself Mr. Fogelman
you're pointing to the wrong side of the cheek
Was there any kind of emotional response?
He had tears coming down his eyes
Right. Had ya'll yelled at him or been mean to him or...
- No, sir - threatened him or promised him
anything, done any of those things?
- None of these things happened whatsoever - All right
Dr. Ofshe, could you give us some examples of
of the police being coercive
leading or suggestive during the course of the interrogation?
Yes, I can. Perhaps the most
powerful example, in my opinion
is the example of the 8 revisiting
of the question of the time at which the killings occurred
The first example occurs of page 3
Detective Ridge says, all right when did you go with them?
Mr. Misskelley says, that morning
Detective Ridge asks
"I'm not saying when they called you"
"I'm saying what time was it that you were actually there in the park?"
Mr. Misskelley says, about noon
Detective Ridge now says
"Okay, was it after school had let out?"
This is immediately after Jessie saying it's at noon
he's now suggesting it must be later
by saying is it after school let out
Jessie says, yes
Detective Ridge follows up with his victory
on page 24
and this time Detective Ridge says and I quote
"Okay, the night you were in the woods"
"uh, had you all been in the water?"
Jessie replies
"Yeah, we'd been in the water, we were in it that night playing around in it"
This is the first time in the record
that it is directly suggested to Jessie
that the correct answer is this happened at night
immediately upon that being suggested
Jessie
is, responds by accepting and now he starts to use the word at night
Where he had never used it before
that is an influence tactic
it is a way of getting someone to accept something
out of pressure and out of suggestion
But that's one example, there are many other examples
of manipulation on important points throughout this record
Mr. Ofshe
is your going rate approximately 300 dollars an hour?
- No, that's not - What is it?
My rate is 150 dollars an hour for consultation
and 300 dollars an hour for time spent in court or in deposition
So, if you're initially asked to evaluate a case
you don't get the 300 dollars an hour
unless you give an opinion that is consistent
with what the person who asked you wants to hear
They don't call you as a witness, you don't get your 300 dollars an hour, correct?
Incorrect
I don't know what the terminology is in Berkeley, California
but when the defendant
identified who it was who was castrated
when he indicated that one of the boys was cut in the face
you don't know and you can't give an opinion
that any of those questions were coercive, can you?
No, I can't because the record that we are dealing with
is very incomplete
because this part of the record is preceded
as everyone agrees
by over two hours of interrogation
in which many subjects were discussed
for which we have no record
"Welcome to where time stands still"
"No one leaves and no one will"
"Moon is full, never seems to change"
"Just labeled mentally deranged"
"Dream the same thing every night"
"I see our freedom in my sight"
"No locked doors, no windows barred"
"No things to make my brain seem scarred"
"Sleep my friend and you will see"
"The dream is my reality"
"They keep me locked up in this cage"
"Can't they see it's why my brain says rage?"
"Sanitarium"
"Jessie Misskelley"
"didn't tell the police anything"
"that they didn't already know"
they led him through this entire taped statement
and ladies and gentlemen of the jury
we don't know what happened before they turned the tape recorder on
They didn't videotape it
the officers didn't take notes on all the questions
they testified to that
They even testified they couldn't remember some of the things they asked him
How do we know what really happened?
The defense through bringing in so called experts
such as Mr. Ofshe
have tried through smoke and mirrors to make it sound like
a person that confesses to such a heinous crime
and admits their involvement and gives you specific details in the involvement
that's indicative of someone who was forced or coerced to confess
Ladies and gentlemen the jury, my client
little Jessie Misskelley
is an innocent man
He's innocent
And I would ask you to go back to that jury room
and bring back a verdict that rings of justice
truth and justice
And I would ask you to bring back a verdict
that you can live with for the rest of your life
See this picture, this is this is the Moore boy
This defendant won't look up
he won't look at you
But this defendant's actions
and you just think about it
If this defendant does not chase down Michael Moore
if he does not run through the woods and chase him down
and bring him back
Michael Moore lives
Michael Moore gets to go home at night
his parents get to be with him
But because of this defendant's actions
because of what Jessie Misskelley Jr. did
Michael Moore's dead
Stevie Branch is dead
Chris Byers is dead
And there's no getting around
I think when you go back and you apply your common sense
and you do what's right and you think about the evidence in this case
you're gonna know that what the evidence shows
is that this defendant
ran down Michael Moore
that this defendant was there
he was involved and he's guilty of three counts of capital murder
3, 2, 1
"The jury went out at 4, 20 this afternoon"
"they'll decide if Jessie Misskelley is guilty"
"in the deaths of Christopher Byers Michael Moore and Steven Branch"
"Misskelley is charged with a capital murder"
"and if guilty could get the death penalty"
"Two other teenagers charged in the crime"
"will be tried later this month in Jonesboro"
"In Corning, Wade Hoffman, ARN News"
Short but sweet
I wanna tell you something twitch your nose
and make them come back with a non-guilty verdict, can you?
If I could twitch my nose and do that I'd have been
- gone a long time ago - We've been praying to God
- There's still hope - That's right
- There's still hope - I'm not giving up though
No, no, no, no, no
Don't ever. Don't give, don't get in there and get mad and go
Oh, don't ever get mad...
They tell me, how come he always keeps his head down?
- Well... - Because I was told
- to keep my head down - That's right
If you'd raised up, looking around, then they would be saying something else
- so that don't matter - They're gonna, they're gonna
That's like they're saying about, uh, Damien
Oh, it's Jason looking around
- No... - Damien is a good kid
- That's what it was... - I guess...
- I don't know - I don't know, I don't know about him
I didn't realize how much I loved him, until this
I always loved him but this is just...
- Well, thanks a lot - I mean, no
I always loved you, I'm just saying I didn't realize how much
You're coming home
Gotta get out of here
Just say a prayer
- when the jury comes out - Yeah
Oh, I know...
Cause we'll be sitting and saying one...
- for you - Hopefully I'm gonna get out
Sure, hope so. We hope we can carry you home
This is kind of horrible, oh, my God
But you got it...
"All right, ladies and gentlemen I, I, in the audience"
I am acutely aware
that...
your feelings are on edge
that there is a great deal of emotion involved
but the court cannot tolerate and will not tolerate
any verbal outbursts, and a display of emotion whatsoever
And I, I recognize that that's difficult
and that's why I'm warning you in advance
Uh, the verdicts read as follow, uh...
"We the jury find Jessie Lloyd Misskelley Jr."
"guilty of first degree murder in the death of Michael Moore"
"We the jury find Jessie Lloyd Misskelley Jr. guilty"
"of second degree murder in the death of Stevie Branch"
"We the jury find Jessie Lloyd Misskelley Jr."
"guilty of second degree murder in the death"
"of Chris Byers, signed by T.J. Williams, foreman"
All right, Mr. Misskelley, if you could
come around to the front here and stand
All right Mr. Misskelley, did you hear the
the jury's finding and the reading of verdict in your case?
- Yes, sir - Do you have any legal reason
or cause to tell the court why sentence should not be imposed at this time?
You'll have to, I heard you but you need to answer out a little bit louder
- No, sir - All right
Uh, is there anything you wanna say before sentence is imposed?
You have the right to, to make any statement that you care to at this time
- No - Are you satisfied
with the service and advice of your attorneys through this trial?
- Yes, sir - All right, all right
based upon the jury's verdict finding you guilty of first degree murder
in the death of Michael Moore you'll be sentenced to
to the Arkansas Department of Corrections for a term of life
in the count involving the death of Steven Branch
the jury having found you guilty of second degree murder
you'll be sentenced to an additional term of 20 years
and in regard to the death of Christopher Byers
the jury having found you guilty of second degree murder
you'll be sentenced to an additional term of 20 years
"in the Arkansas Department of Corrections"
"That is you will receive a life sentence plus 40 years"
It's hard to think of how you...
it would have gone any other way but you never can tell
with a jury of 12 and they could have found a verdict
of not guilty and, uh...
we had to sit there and tell ourselves
God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change
the courage to change the things we can
and the wisdom to know the difference
So we had to be willing to accept what happened
and thankfully the verdict went our way
Well, there must be mixed emotions because
you have the guilty verdict but you, you still have a loss to deal with
This doesn't change anything
- Our son was still murdered - Christopher is dead
- Our son is still dead - And he was tortured to death
by three murdering bastards on a ditch bank
he was 8 years old
And guilty is guilty
and I hope the little sucker when he hits Cummings
they get his ass right off the bat
Because he deserves to be tortured
and punished for the rest of his life
for murdering three 8 year old children
Jessie, how come you kept your head down the whole time?
Jessie, you held your head down through most of the trial
anything you wanna say now?
Did you do it, Jessie?
Okay, get that back, get a hold of him
Did you do it, Jessie?
Do you have something to say?
How are you feeling right now?
Prison's not a safe place
Jessie, sweetie
I'mma mail him a skirt
One down, two to go
Hopefully the same thing will happen to the next two
and we'll get the same verdict
They found my son's testicles in a jar of alcohol
in Damien Echols' house
With his fingerprints on the jar
Now, how do you dispute that?
Some idiots started a rumor saying that
uh, they found, um...
children's sexual parts
uh, under my bed or in my house
and...
it was no body parts in my house or...
It's, it's, I think maybe the police had something to do with it
just...
cause how, if they can make us look bad in front of the public
then people are gonna...
kind of have their minds made up
before anything ever comes out
We wanna talk to you about all this stuff in the paper
about a deal with Jessie
um, we, right now
we don't know what his situation is although we think
that he is more inclined to testify right now
than he has been at any point up to now
The Friday that Jessie was convicted
they questioned him, the officers who took him down
inquired of him what had really happened
and apparently, Jessie contrary to somebody
that was innocent that would say things like, gee
I've just been convicted
and I didn't do it and what a terrible injustice
Jessie talked all the way down there about how he
committed the crime and specific details
Unfortunately, we need his testimony real bad
Um, if it was a perfect world
you know, we would take what we have on Jessie and leave it
and we'd go and get the other two
And get them and be happy, but it's not
and, uh...
we need his testimony to be sure we get convictions on the other two
I think we're gonna negotiate his sentence down
some in order to get him to testify
He's not gonna, you know, testify just
out of the goodness of his heart
The only way that I think that he will be willing to testify
is if the life sentence is removed
And I do wanna say all is not lost if he doesn't testify
Uh, but the odds are reduced significantly
Um, we've still got some evidence
What we've got besides Jessie
is we've got
a, a fiber that was found on, um...
it was found on Stevie's shirt
that matched the fiber from Jason Baldwin's mother
which is called secondary transfer
We've got a fiber from a shirt
or a couple of fibers from a shirt found at Echols' house
found, uh, one of them was on like the Cub Scout
Michael's Cub Scout cap another one maybe on the shirt
now, that matched Damien's
Fiber evidence it's, it's, in my opinion better than hair evidence
but they can't say that it came from that particular garment
to the exclusion of all others
Uh, we've got, uh...
the Hollingsworth clan that says they saw Damien and Domini out on the service road
We've got some, uh...
uh, kids that say that Damien at, a
they heard him at a girls' softball game overheard him say
that he killed the three boys
and he was gonna kill two more before he turned himself in
- And... - They haven't scare them off like they
- did the other ones? - Well, no, not yet
And, we've got, uh...
a guy that was in jail with Jason
who says that Jason made some incriminating statements to him
now, there are some things that they will, are gonna try to do
to attack this kid's credibility
But, uh, and then we've got the knife that was found
uh, in the lake behind Jason's house
so that's what we've got, but that's all
- basically that we've got - And you asked what the odds
were of convicting them without Jessie
and it's, uh, you know 50, 50 might be, might be good
The only way he'll come up there is sit down in that witness chair
and testify that they cut him a sweet deal
You take all the things that are wrong with his statement
and then add to the, add to the recipe mix
that I'm talking now because I got a sweet deal and I'm not gonna
I'm gonna get out in ten years
How pitiful. I may get out in ten years
well heck, who wouldn't sing?
You know what I'm saying? So he then he, then his evidence
his statement, his whole thing looks bad
and that's, if that's their best evidence
and trust me it is, if they can't use that statement against you
they got nothing
And this dog and pony show is over
- Good morning - Good morning
Are the rumors false about Jessie turning state's evidence?
Yes
- Good morning - Is it true that Jessie's going
- to testify against Damien and Jason? - It's false
I just left Jessie at the jail and he told me that he was not gonna testify
he, he didn't wanna get up there and lie
Uh, the officers have been working on him real hard, but...
he wasn't gonna listen to them and, uh...
this was his decision. It's final
But, he can always change his mind again
I, you know, he has, he's a very confused and scared kid
and, and the officers have scared him to death
Yeah, they have. Well, I told him last night, I said, Jessie
if you're get up there and lie I'm gonna be in that courtroom
And you're gonna have to sit there and tell that lie
when you know that I'm sitting there listening to you
when you know I know the truth that you're lying
Damien, are you in a cult? Are you in a cult, Damien?
Damien, are you worried about Jessie testifying against you?
In looking at young people involved in the occult
do you see any particular type of dress?
I have personally observed people wearing
uh, black fingernails
having their hair painted black
wearing black T-shirts
sometimes, they will tattoo themselves
Do you have an opinion as to whether or not
there are occult overtones or evidence of occult involvement
uh, in these particular murders?
Well, the date being close to
uh, Veltane
- What is that? - A holiday, May 1st
Also, uh, the day before that is Walpurgnacht
Then you go into, uh, the fact that some
uh, groups of occult cult groups
or, uh, will use a full moon
Uh, in several occult books
they will talk about the life force of the blood
usually the younger the individual
the more pure it is
The more power or the force it has
A lot of times they will take blood
and store it for other services
and other use
as well as consume it, or bathe in it
Now, the...
the items drawn on the front
- uh, what is that? - That is a...
that is a pentagram, that happens to be a wiccan
or white witchcraft pentagram
All right, now if you'd open look to the front page
- Yes, sir - All right
Now, explain what that is
- That's confusion to me - All right
And the reason why, we got a, a white witchcraft
uh, wiccan, pentagram
then we have upside down crosses
which comes from another type of occultism
What type of occultism do the upside down
- crosses... - That's black witchcraft
Is it Wicca, Satanism or both?
- both - Okay
And did you notice anything in particular
uh, about the book?
There's a chapter in here called Rise of the Devil
and, uh...
it is underlined in red
and there. there is a couple sentences in there
reference to uh, blood and its life force
How, how were you accepted into enrollment
at Colombia Pacific University?
I had to fill out a, uh...
and several series of papers including all my education
background, experience
Did you ever fill out a little flier like this?
- No, sir - That said
call toll free for information on how to become a doctor?
This is a mail order college, isn't it?
What classes did you take between 1980 and 1982
to obtain your master's degree?
- What classes... I testified - What classes?
I'm asking you what classes
- what classes did you take? - I said...
I told you, I answered that before, none
You did not take any classes
between 1982 and 1984 when you became a Ph.D.
What classes did you take?
- None - None
Okay
Is it your opinion
and do you want to tell this jury
that these crimes
were motivated by occult beliefs?
Yes
"We're not trash, by no means"
My son was born in West Memphis
he was raised in West Memphis
and for the life of me I cannot understand
why people has got this bad image of him
So what if he wore a black trenchcoat
He's not the only one that does
You know, so what if he wore black T-shirts
black pants
Johnny Cash wears black, doesn't he?
Well, I wear black, Michelle wears black
- Um, Domini wears black - I wear black
It's we're all just partial to black, I guess
I like black myself
And I'm by no means no devil worshipper, nor is he
He was going to school, he wanted to go to school to be a priest
He was faithful in the church
and he looked into a little bit of Wicca
but he, he never went to it
and I think if people looked into what
to what Wicca is, they would understand it a little better
The only thing wiccans do is worship the earth
People probably think that I'm in Satanism because
usually what people don't understand they try to destroy
or ridicule
try to make it look bad or wrong
West Memphis is pretty much like
sick as Salem, right now
Because everything that happens there every crime no matter what it is
it's blamed an Satanism
You've been previously sworn
- Yes - Yes, sir. That's correct
Please state your name for the court
Damien Wayne Echols
Why did you change your name?
I was very involved in the Catholic church
And we were going over different names
of the saints, St. Michael's was where I went to church at
And we heard about this
uh, guy from the Hawaiian, uh Hawaiian Islands
um, Father Damien
that took care of lepers
until he finally caught the disease his self and died
All right, was that the reason you chose Damien as your first name?
- Yes, it is - Okay, did the choosing of the name
Damien have anything to do with any type of horror movies
Satanism, cultism, any of that nature?
- Nothing whatsoever - Okay
All right, after the time period that you were really into the Catholic religion
did you start focusing on another particular religion?
- Wicca - Wicca, all right
Could you explain to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury
what, some principles about the Wicca religion
Um...
it acknowledges a goddess in a higher regard as a god
because people have always said we're all God's children
and men cannot have children
Um...
it's basically like a close involvement with nature
Is there a difference between
the Wicca religion and witchcraft?
Wicca is also called witchcraft
the word, uh, Wicca was bastardized
it originally meant wise one
Did the fact that
you like to wear black all the time
were you different in other ways as well?
Yes, I've never had a lot of the same interests
that other people have like sports
things like that, I've never been into anything like that
Well, did it
did it help you deal with other people
to have people kind of
standoffish and sort of back away from you?
Yeah, it would make
it was like a defense mechanism it would make people think like
well, he's weird, I'm not gonna go around him
so, it kept people away
The state had introduced
the book Never On A Broomstick
Are familiar with that particular book?
- Yes, I am - All right, where did you
get that book, Damien?
At the library in Crittenden County
all the books that they were, uh
getting tired of or had for a long time, I guess
they all had them sitting on a rack
out from that they were selling for 10 cents each, so, I got it
All right, did you underline any of those portions in the book?
No, that was done when I got it I think it was because somebody
had a report to do or something because all through the books
there's like little notes, uh...
certain dates and stuff
like from the 1600s
in the outside margin
So, was that book kind of like a history of, of witchcraft?
- and how it's developed over the ages? - Yes
- Okay
Are you familiar with the contents of that notebook?
- Yes, I am - I noticed on the inside
of the front cover there, there appears to be a couple of quotes there
- Yes - Could you, uh...
read each of those to the jury and then tell them where that came from
"Life is but a walking shadow"
"it is a tale told by an idiot"
"full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"
That's from A Midsummer Night's Dream by William Shakespeare, um
"Pure black looking clear"
"my work is soon done here"
"try getting back from me that which used to be"
That is of a Metallica tape
called Injustice for all
talks about how warped the court systems are
and stuff like that
On May the 5th
did you kill Michael Moore?
No, I did not
On May the 5th
- did you kill Stevie Branch? - No, I did not
On May the 5th
did you kill Chris Byers?
No, I did not
Have you ever participated in any type of human sacrifice?
No, I have not
19 year old Damien Echols admits he stands out in a crowd
He says he loves heavy metal music
like...
Sure that little... Practices the Wicca religion
3, 2, 1
19 year old Damien Echols says he's. 3, 2, 1
19 year old Damien Echols admits he stands out in a crowd
He says he likes to wear black most of the time
practices the Wicca religion
and loves heavy metal music
but he says he's definitely not a killer
"I believe they did it"
and if they were to be set free on the street
then they would have to look behind their back
watch behind their back to see if Pam Hobbs
wasn't following them because...
I'm just saying this as a human, you know
I, I would, I believe I'd try to kill them too
if they ever walked the streets and I'm still alive
I believe I'd be stalking them
To do to them...
probably shoot them
and then cut them up
When I was at the courtroom and Damien walked past me
I wanted to just go over there and take my hand
and just claw down his face
Inflict any kind of pain that I could inflict on him
I know eventually we're gonna have to forgive him
I know that and I understand that
But when it happens in your home and you watch your
your wife lose her mind, you know
whatever happened to her
your home is tore apart
busted up
I don't feel it's fair
right now for someone to ask me to forgive
the ones that caused it
It, It'd take some time
a long time before I could forgive them
You, you say that it's gonna take time
We don't know how much time we got
Pam, we wouldn't be able to see Stevie again
We have to forgive in our heart
because the Lord
forgave us
He forgave us
He shedded his blood for us He shedded his blood for them
And, he just, he just asks us to
to have a...
a, a forgiving spirit
And I refuse
to serve sin and Satan
Because I'm gonna see Stevie again
I'm gonna be with Stevie again I'm gonna be with my mother again
I'm gonna be with her mother, your grandmothers, both of them
I'm gonna be with all my loved ones
that have passed on and went to Heaven
If you could speak to the families
of these, of these kids who think you did it
you know, what would you say to them?
I don't know
Jason was my best friend, we did about everything together
It was kind of like we even lived together most of the time
stayed at each other's houses
wore each other's clothes
It was more like we were brothers
We used to go out and snake hunt all the time
Snakes and music were like about our whole life really
We lis, we were like all the time looking for new groups
that we would like or something our favorite kind of music
were like Slayer, Metallica
Megadeth
U2
We'd do just about everything together
Now, I wanna draw your attention back to August of last year
were you in the Creget County Juvenile Detention Facility?
- Yes, I was - Okay, what were you in there
- for at the time? - Burglary
Okay, and...
when you were there
was there a Jason Baldwin in the general detention facility at the same time?
- Yes - Now, while you were in contact
with this Jason Baldwin
was there anything mentioned about this involvement
in the murders of the three 8 year olds?
Yes, well, he was sitting up playing spades
and I wanted to get to know everybody off in there
cause, I don't know what you call it, but
I just wanted to get to know
And I just straight out asked him if he did it
he denied it. First time
Okay. Did you have an occasion again
while you were in the detention facility to ask him
was he involved in the murders of the three 8 year olds
Yes, I think it was like the next day
I believe it was the next day
And can you tell us what the scenar, what was going on
what was happening at the time that occurred?
Well, me and Jason Baldwin were scraping up the cards
going ourselves for lunch, I said just between me and you, I won't say a word
Uh, did you do it? And he said yes
and he went into detail about it
You said he went in more detail what did he tell you?
He told me, uh
how he dismembered the kid
or I don't know exactly how many kids he just said he dismembered them
he sucked the blood from the penis
and the scrotum, and put the balls in his mouth
Now, Michael
when was it that
you came forward with this information?
I'm not really sure, I believe it was like a couple of months later
What caused you to some forward
at that point in time, why, why
did Michael Carson no longer wanna stay uninvolved
why didn't you come forward in February this year?
Cause I saw the family on TV
Saw how broken hearted they were about their children being missing
And I got a soft heart, I couldn't take it
Now, he tells you this and then you're silent
from August
until February, is that right?
- Yes, sir - And then the second conversation
you've ever had with this young man in his entire life
he tells you all this stuff
- Yes, sir - After he's had one
- conversation with you - Yes, sir
"One day when I was up here in Jonesboro working and the phone rings"
secretary says, you won't know who he is but he needs to talk to you
I pick up the phone, he says I'm Danny Williams
I'm embarrassed to tell you what I need to tell you
He said, but I work with the...
the Juvenile Department here and I do drug and alcohol counseling
And there's a guy named Michael Carson
who's gonna testify that Jason confessed to him in the jail
and I know he's lying
I said, what are you talking about? He said, well
he said, several months ago
Michael Carson was one of the kids that I worked with
And... he and I had a conversation
where I told him that this Jason Baldwin
had been accused of killing 3 boys
and sexually mutilating them
And basically, he gave Michael Carson
the details that he testifies to at the trial
At the time Carson says nothing
And, then he later, Carson later tells him
he says, hey, by the way Danny I've, I'm telling the police
you know, Jason confessed to me
And so he calls me up, said, hey no, no, no, he said, this kid's a liar
he's no good, I know he's lying
And the only reason he's got this information
- is because I gave it to him - The counselor of this kid
called the prosecution and told them
what a liar he was
and the prosecution still used the kid
- That's right - and now they're trying to keep out
the fact, the background of the kid
Obviously we wanna get that information out
but the judge acts like he may not let us use him at all
We should absolutely be able to
uh, le the jury know that he is LSD dependent
because it does affect his ability to recall
You know, the judge takes us, takes all that away from us
- yeah, the kid looks pretty believable - Not only are they
are they keeping out the background of the kid when he testifies
so the jury doesn't have all the eggs
but now they're keeping out the counselor who even knows about this kid
who told them the story in the first place
prior to him ever telling the police
All that goes to the credibility
I think that would've shown the jury that he didn't have that kind heart
- that, uh, soft heart that, uh - Yeah
- he tried to tell... - That's right
Detective Allen, I want to direct your attention to, uh
November 17th, 1993
were you asked to, uh...
make contact with some, uh
property owners at Lakeshore Trailer Park
and also get with the Arkansas State Police dive team?
- Yes, sir. I was - And, uh...
after a period of time, of
of, um...
searching, do you know whether any items were recovered?
- Uh, yes, sir - All right
Marked for identification purposes is state's exhibit 77
and I ask you if you can identify that
Yes, uh, I can identify this by my
uh, 11, 17 of 93
M. Allen, that I put here
- Where did you get the knife? - I, I got this knife
from a diver with the with the state police
How long did this search take place?
- How long? - Yes, sir
From my memory, I'm thinking maybe 10, 30 a.m. is about the time they got suited up
and, and started, started to look
And you quit, you quit it when?
They located the...
knife at 11, 35 a.m.
- So what, it... - Or 11, 30, 11, 35
- About an hour. Could you... - About an hour and a half, yeah
Are you telling this jury that this knife is the murder weapon?
Is that what you're telling this jury?
No, sir, I'm not telling the jury that
Okay, now that we get, let me tell you that
What day were these individuals charged?
what day did you all charge Damien Echols
with this crime? Was it June the 3rd?
- Yes, sir - And what day was it
that you were out there searching this lake?
This was on 11, 17 of 93
November 17 of 1993
- Yes, sir - That's all
The damn system stinks
They're playing with our lives
and there's nothing right about it
It's kind of like the Nazis, you know
they can just take somebody's word
and come in their house and take you away
And basically, that's what they did
because of what Jessie told them
Even though it had all those inconsistencies in it
If we had money, do you think these 3 boys would've been picked up?
They found people that they knew that didn't have money
some boys that been in a little bit of trouble
They thought we didn't care
They were wrong
They're bad wrong
I don't believe that chil, that children
could be that cold blooded
as what happened to those boys
And state's exhibit 67-A
shows the, um...
the hogtying fashion on the the hands were hogtied
um, to the feet, behind the back and this is the photograph
um, showing that the shoelaces
And that injury, um...
you say is, is typical of a of a belt injury
the belt has a little buckle and that's what the
the buckle, that's that little one that goes back and forth, left and right
that's the base of the, the latch
Here, this red area here
this is the, uh, the shaft of the penis
And here is where the scrotal sack and testies should be and they're missing
So, what we have is that the, the skin
covering the penis and the head of the penis
had been copped off it's gone, it's not there
In layman's language, that I, I understand
with respect, his penis has not been cut off, has it?
No, the, the skin has, has been taken off the penis
And basically, it would take some skill
and precision to do that, wouldn't it?
- I would think so - Okay
If this was to be done
this dissection
where the skin is cut off
that would take a very sharp instrument, would it not?
- Um, I think it would - Okay
- Such as a razor - Or a sharp knife
- Or a very sharp knife - Right
Doctor, if you were to do this
with the skill and the precision and the knowledge that you take
how long would it take you to do that?
It would take me some time
It'd take you longer than 5 to 10 minutes
- I would think so - And that's at, in your lab
- I would think so - With a scalpel
- Is that correct. Now, Doctor - That's correct
If we add it to the equation
that you were in the dark
could you, could you do this in the dark?
You, Doctor, could you do it in the dark?
It'd be difficult
Could you do this in the water?
You, Doctor, could you do this in the water?
I think it'd be very difficult to do
If you were doing it in the dark
in the water with mosquitoes all around you
would that make it even much more difficult?
I would think so
It would take you, it would be a very tedious task for you
- It... It would - A skilled pathologist
Now, isn't true, Doctor
that people have 5, about 5 pints of blood?
- A little more than that, yes - Okay
Um, now, if I poured out 5 pints of blood
out here on the floor, it'd make a big mess, wouldn't it?
- Yes - And it would be
almost impossible to clean up
Well, you could do it, but...
- not very easily... - It'd be very difficult, wouldn't it?
- It's not easy to clean blood - Okay
Does blood soak into the ground?
- Um, yes, it does - Okay
Doctor, with this homicide
we're talking about here today
would you agree with me that this could've happened in one of three ways
These injuries could've happened in the water
these injuries could've happened on the bank
there by the side of the ditch, or it could have happened somewhere else
Would you agree with me those are the 3 possibilities
- of how this could've happened? - Yes
Okay, now, with your knowledge of the amount of blood
that was lost from not only Chris Byers
but these other boys who've had some pretty they're gonna bleed as well, won't they?
- Oh, yes - Okay, do you have
an opinion as to whether you could clean up that amount of blood
at a scene in the dark
do you have an opinion as to that?
I think it'd be quite difficult to do
to have... um
injuries of this nature
without having any blood
I mean, that's, I, I would question that
- about the blood - Okay
Unless it happened in the water or it happened some other place
Okay. And you, again, Doctor stated that you couldn't
you couldn't do this in the water
- Personally, I, I don't think I could - Okay
I don't get off on hurting people
or...
inflicting pain on the rest of the human race
or just...
causing destruction for the purpose of destruction
I've probably been in one or two fights in my entire life
Um...
And especially a child
Because they didn't do anything to deserve what they got
Um...
And I believe whatever you do
to someone else, whether it's good or bad
it's eventually gonna come back around to you
Even the person who did this if they're not caught and punished
then something will happen in their life
where they will be punished
"People here kept telling me not to go out with him"
Something like devil worshipper and stuff and I met him
in Wal-Mart
and he followed me around like a puppy dog
And we just started talking and you know, he was real sweet
not like everybody else was making him out to be
and that night we started going out and...
that was like a month
he called me up on the telephone at my dad's girlfriend's house
he goes, will you marry me? I'm like, what?
And he goes, will you marry me?
I said, can you repeat that one more time?
And he goes, will you marry me? And I said, yeah
When I got pregnant, I had this big picture painted in my mind that
you know, Damien's gonna be there and
I get to yell at him when I have the baby
And instead I was yelling at her
I miss him so much
I mean, I don't know if he'll ever see the baby
they won't let him touch the baby
It makes me so pissed off
It's just, I just felt different when he was born
It was...
It made me feel like
I guess just real good inside, just
to think that I gave life to another human being
something completely separate from me, but still part of me
I just hope that I'll be there when he grows up
to watch him
You're familiar with a fellow named Aleister Crowley?
- I know who he is. I know who he is - You've heard of him? Okay
Uh, and...
he's the guy who kind of professes, he's
he's a noted author in the field of Satanic worship, right?
I've never, I, I know who he is, but I've never saw any of his books, personally
All right, not really much of a follower of his?
I would've read him if I saw him
- but he just never... - Okay
But Aleister Crowley is a guy that
based on his writings
believes in human sacrifice, doesn't he?
He also believe he was God, though, so
Okay, and...
he also had writings that indicated
that children were the best type of human sacrifice, correct?
- Yes, sir - Okay
But, Aleister Crowley doesn't have any particular significance to you?
I know who he is
I've read a little bit about him but I've never read anything by him
Let me show you
a copy of some documents do you recognize that?
- Yes - Okay, what is that?
Um, it, it was this paper I had on
uh, different alphabets
for like translations, where you could write things
that nobody could read and this was one of the forms
Oh, okay, well, where'd you have that at?
Where did, when did you do that write those things out?
- Sometime before I was arrested, I guess - All right
Are you sure that you hadn't done those since you were arrested
while you've been staying in jail?
I don't know, I might have
So, what, whose names are written on that document?
Mine, Jason's
my son's, uh, one that says Aleister Crowley
- and... - Just wait, wait, who?
- Aleister Crowley - Yeah
this is a document that you've written while you've been waiting in jail
- for trial, right? - If you say so
Well, you wrote it correct, that's your writing?
- Mhmm - Okay
- You recall when you wrote it? - Not really
What I'm gonna ask you is that this Damien Seth Ezeriah Echols
your son, he wasn't born until after you were placed in jail, correct?
- Yes - Okay. So if you've got his name
listed on this document then this document
had been generated after he was born, right?
- Yes - Okay, so this is something
you've written since you've been sitting in here in jail
- waiting for trial - Yes
And what you were doing was writing out various names
in different type alphabets, correct?
From the way it looks here I was practicing, trying to memorize them
Okay, and one of the names that you picked out
to write about was this fellow named Aleister Crowley, correct?
- Mhmm - Is that just, just a
total coincidence you just pulled his name out of the air?
No, it's just the same book that I had with this
the different alphabets in it, it also had stuff about him in it
Well, did you have the book out there at the time you were doing this?
Mm, this was just from what I remembered myself
where I was practicing, trying to memorize
- get it all in my head, or... - So
so you were going over it and working on it in your head
and at that point in time
you write all this down from memory?
- Mhmm - The people that are listed on here
- you've got your name here, right? - Mhmm
And then Jason Baldwin which is your best friend, right?
And then you've got Damien Seth Ezeriah Echols, that's your son?
- Yes, it is - Okay, and then the only other name
on this document besides yourself
your best friend, and your son
- is Aleister Crowley, correct? - Yes, sir
I believe this witness has requested not to be photographed?
That's correct, your honor
Would you state your name for the jury?
- Christine Ann Bickle - Okay
and, do like you just did and speak up best you can, okay, Christie?
- Yeah, are you nervous? - Yes
All right, okay
did you hear somebody say something
about the murder of the three little boys?
Yes, I heard, um, Damien Echols say that he killed the three boys
Where were you, was he saying that to you or what were you doing?
I was walking by with my friend
Christine, I'm Scott Davidson and I've got a couple questions to ask you too, okay?
- Okay - Okay
Um, first of all, uh...
do you remember what day this was that heard this?
- No, sir - That's the first time
- you'd ever seen him in your life? - Yes, sir
What did he say before you say that he said he killed those 3 boys?
- What'd he say before that? - I don't know
- What'd he say after that? - I don't know
And how, how close were you to him?
I wasn't close
- Did he scream it? - I don't know
- Did he yell it? - I don't know
- Call your next witness - Call Jody Medford
And again, this witness was requested not to be photographed
Jody, I want to direct your attention to, uh...
May of 1993, after the murders of the three little boys
Uh, did you have occasion to be at the softball field
and, and hear a comment in regard to the murders?
- Yes, sir - All right
Tell the jury, uh, first tell the jury first what you heard
He said, I killed the little boys and before I turn myself in
I'm gonna kill to more and I already have one of them picked out
You didn't recognize anybody else that was with him?
Um, I saw Jason Baldwin there
Had you heard people talking about Damien before this?
Yes, sir
Did you think...
did you think he was kind of weird or something?
Yes, sir, cause he was dressed all in black
and his hair was jet black and long
and shaved on the side
Margaret, two teenage girls took the stand this morning
and they said they heard Damien Echols confess to the murders
of three 8 year old boys last May
one of the girls said she over heard Damien Echols say
I killed the three boys and I'm going to kill two more
I already have one picked out
Later in the afternoon when the defense began presenting its witnesses
Damien Echols himself took the stand
He said he thought the girls were lying
and that they were making up those statements
He also said he did not practice Satanism
and denied any involvement in the murders of Chris Byers
Michael Moore, and Stevie Branch
Were you working at Bojangles Restaurant
on the evening of May 5th of 1993?
- Yes, sir - Could you tell us what happened?
Well, it was about 9, 30 at night
uh, I found a black gentleman sitting in the women's restroom on the commode
and there was blood dripping off of his forearm
But he had mud on his feet
and he seemed to be disarrayed when I talked to him
I called the police then
- What happened then? - It was a female officer
for the West Memphis Police Department
and, uh, she pulled on the light and I saw her coming
I went up to the front door but she kept coming around
she went to the drive through window
So you did not go in the restaurant
- No, sir, I did not - Did you ever find
- this bleeding black man? - No, sir, I did not
Do you have a report that you made regarding this incident?
No, sir, I did not
And you're out looking for some boys and you're out in that area
and you hear about someone bleeding, did that
did anything go off in your mind thinking that
- something may be going on? - Okay, first of all
you gotta understand is the different area I went to
it was a different ward
I did not connect the two at all
Well... it may have been outside your ward
but distance wise between the area where you were looking
and where, where this restaurant was it's not a long distance, is it?
- No, sir, it's really not - Okay
Did any officer come out there that evening?
Not that evening
Uh, were you working on the day of May 6th of 1993?
Yes, sir. Two detectives came out
and they took a report as far as what I'd seen
uh, description of the gentleman
and then they took blood scrapings off the wall
All right, detective Ridge what is the date that you sent
the blood scrapings off to the crime lab to be analyzed?
- They were never sent - They were never sent?
That's correct
All right, where are the, the blood samples at this time?
I don't know, sir, they're lost
- They're lost? - Yes, sir, that's my mistake
I lost a piece of evidence
Most of the time he came up with the stupid ideas
I guess I influenced him about as much as he influenced me, I guess
Most of the time we didn't really set out to so something in particular
we just started hanging around and whatever happened
just usually happened
Sometimes good, sometimes bad
We were just sitting on the couch watching TV the night we were arrested
And pigs busted in, started running all over the house
We tried to hide in the bedroom when the cops first came
but they wouldn't leave
We ran in the bedroom, turned the light off
- maybe they'll go away - I know
We saw the lights go out
- And Domini turned them back on. Oh - No, it was my sister
"Well, the interesting thing about it is, is that, the"
the, the one knife that we know somebody owns
is the Byers knife, we know he owns that knife
He's got the motive his son who he's upset with
his son was the only one mutilated
the other two weren't mutilated
He's, he's, he's got knowledge about the area
he knows when the search is over with
He's big enough that he can carry the boys there and throw them in
- He's a jeweler - A jeweler
he's precise enough to have, to have committed that mutilation
All of the pieces fit together
with somebody in a different location
killing the boys in a different location
Because there's no mosquito bites on them
So we know that after the boys were killed
and during, they weren't outside
They had to be inside cause there's no mosquito bites on them
So that means they were carried from a death scene some place
unconscious and brought down to the river
and they had to be killed shortly before they brought down there
because they all died within a short period of time
So after they were bled to death after they were bludgeoned
and unconscious, somebody had to take those three
take them to the scene and dump them
In order to do that, you gotta be physically strong enough
to carry a 50 to 60 year old unconscious kid
who's hogtied
Ja, Jason couldn't have done it
in his best day, he couldn't carry a little baby
with those little skinny arms of his
so when we look at this whole thing
all the pieces that they tried to put together
none of it fits with Jason
and just about all of it fits towards a person like Byers
When did you receive that knife?
On the...
I believe it was on the 8th, I've gone Jan...
it's hard to make this out, January 8th, 1994
All right, and, who did you receive this knife from?
I received it from, uh...
- you mean how did I actually receive it? - No, who did you
receive the knife from?
I received it from, uh...
Joe and, uh, the people with HBO
- Okay - Productions
- Okay, Bruce and the other one - Bruce and Joe
- wherever he is. All right - Yes
Upon receiving that knife what did you do with it?
I saw what I thought to be some type of substance on the knife
and, actually, I did know what it was
I in turn sent this knife to Genetic Design
When the knife was received by your firm
did you or your lab run tests on that particular knife?
There was a small amount of what appeared to be blood
um, that was dried or tissue
in a, a crevice on the knife where the knife bolts when it locks
The results of the test showed us that, um
there was DNA, um, present on the knife
and that we were able to get a type, uh
using a test called HLA BQ Alpha
and Mr. Byers had the same type that was detected form the specimen from the knife
Okay, and what was the BQ Alpha type for Christopher Byers?
It was also the same type
So, the blood on the knife
and...
Christopher Byers' blood
and John Mark Byers' blood all had the same type
Correct
- Judge, if I could approach the witness - All right
Take a look at, at that knife, Doctor
And I'm gonna call that for identification purposes
The John Mark Byers knife
Doctor, did you make the comparison with this knife
E-6 and, and compared that with some of the wounds
- that you found on Chris Byers? - Yes, I did
All right, does that knife appear to be a serrated knife?
Yes, this is a serrated knife
Do you have an opinion if some of the wounds
that you found on Chris Byers were consistent
with wounds which would have been caused
by that type of serrated knife?
Well, some of the wounds that have the smaller serrated, um, patterns
um, could have been, um
inflected with a knife having this type of, um, serration
How do you think this has gone over so far on the Mark Byers aspect?
Obviously we thought long and hard about mentioning
a father as a possible suspect
I hate having to do that, but the way the circumstances are
it's just coming out whether we really want it to or not
I mean, you know, we had suspicion even before the knife showed up
Do you think anybody realizes the reason for the 3 day delay
in Jessie's trial was waiting on that
the DNA test to come back on that Byers knife?
I doubt it, and even after the results came back
and it showed that it could be Mark's blood
as well as Chris's blood
that doesn't alleviate
the fact that he said no one had ever cut themself on the knife
And it shouldn't have blood on it at all
Well, do you think the theory or the argument at least that
it wasn't that the blood was found on the blade
which could be easily wiped off but it was back in the hinges
that you normally wouldn't think
if you were wiping off the blood you wouldn't think the blood would be
inside the hinges and that's where they found that particular blood
- How do we get that in? Just ask - Well
Gitchell?
Ask Byers, I mean, we could put Byers up on the stand
I think the jury expects to see him now
Oh, they wanna see him up there they wanna see what he has to say
- don't you think so? - I think so, yes
Mr. Byers, I need to ask you about
the defense exhibit number E-6
this particular folding lock blade Kershaw knife, if I could
- approach the witness, your honor - Yes
Take a look at that knife, please
Had that knife ever been used before?
Used for what?
Used for any purpose
I've had trimmed toenails with it
I had, uh, attempted to
trim on some venison that I had
- I... - You attempted to
trim on some venison when was it you attempted
to trim on some venison?
Somewhere time around the Thanksgiving holidays
Do you recall being asked on January 26th
this is on page 3
By inspector Gitchell
"Had you ever taken that knife hunting or used it recently?"
Do you remember being asked that question by Inspector Gitchell?
Specifically, no, sir. He asked me a lot of questions
All right, do you remember giving the answer
"No, that knife had not been used at all"
"It had just been kept up"
"put in my dresser and I didn't use it"
"and the reason why was because if the serrated edges"
Do you recall giving that answer to, uh Inspector Gitchell on the 26th?
No, sir, I don't recall giving him that exact answer
I'm sure his question wouldn't have been asked
- exactly like your question was - All right
did Gitchell tell you
"Let me explain a problem we had"
"and you need to answer this for me"
"we have found blood on this knife"
Did Gitchell ask you that question?
I don't remember if he said there was or not
Did you tell Gitchell you had no idea
how Chris's blood could be on that knife?
Yes, sir. I would not have any idea
If his blood was on that knife, I would not know how it got there
Did you have any idea how human blood was on that knife?
Well, yes, I would have an idea, I cut my thumb
All right
Is it true that you never told Inspector Gitchell on January 26th
that you ever cut your thumb with that particular knife, did you?
Yes, sir. Seems like during the course of the day, I did tell him that
Okay, was that during the taped conversation or was that after?
- I don't remember - Okay
On the top of page 8
you recall being asked the question
"I have no idea, no idea"
"how it could have any human blood on it"
- You recall giving that answer? - Yes, sir
Then do you recall stating
"I don't even remember nicking myself with it"
"cutting the dinner meat or anything"
- Is that the answer you gave? - Yes, sir
- And is that the truth? - Uh...
at the time when he was questioning me
I didn't re, I mean, I might not have remembered
we were getting ready to go into trial, uh...
Did you remember on this date
cutting yourself with the venison or not cutting yourself?
- The date that Gary questioned? - The day that Gary questioned
- Yes, sir - I might not have remembered it
at that time when he was questioning me
but I could've remembered it later on
in the day and talked to him about it
Okay
Earlier that afternoon, had you given Chris a whipping?
Approximately around 5, 30
This was about 5, 30 and was, was this with a belt?
- Yes, sir - Okay, and approximately
how many times did you hit him with the belt?
I spanked him 2 or 3 times
And on what part of body did you spank him?
It would've been just on his behind
Okay, was his, uh...
was he wearing his pants or did he have to pull his pants down?
- No, he had on blue jeans - Okay
The judge back there during the last recess
before you were recalled, says that you have a brain tumor
you're being treated, do you wanna talk about that? Is it true?
- It's been rumored, it's... - Yes, I have a brain tumor
- And you're being treated for it? - Yes, I'm being treated for it
I need to ask you one question and
and I hope you won't get angry
but has this, this even the suggestion
that you may have had something to do with the murders
of these boys caused any problems
uh, within your, your family
or with any of the other uh, victims' families?
- No - they all
they all know the truth, and no
Did you have anything to do with these boys' deaths?
No more than you did
Fogelman says you're buying a new house is that why you're leaving West Memphis?
- I didn't say that - Fogelman did this morning
Yeah, he said that's why you were late
- Yeah, we might try to move - Out of West Memphis?
Well, somewhere, I mean, you would probably wanna move, you know
Could you say where you're gonna move? Do you wanna say...
- No - Let me ask you a question
Mr. Sullivan, would you wanna live in a house
that your baby died less than three fourths of a mile from it?
- I wouldn't, no - No, okay
That answers the question, come on
You're talking about your whole family, though, right?
- you're not just talking about you - You wouldn't move
and leave your wife and children somewhere, would you?
Not if we were gonna stay together, no
Okay
I mean, some of the questions you ask are kind of ridiculous
you know, I know you might ask them yourself
they're kind of odd or strange or different
or however you'd like to comment on them
but some of them it seems like you just use a little common sense
and think about what you would do or how you would feel
some of the questions you fellows would maybe have to ask
- Well, the only thing is, we have - We have to ask them
to ask them because we can't quote ourselves
- We have to... - I know, but then a lot of times
things are printed in the paper that people did not say
and the news media
I'm not saying which individual
says they got a confidential informer
you don't have a confidential informer
over, your confidential informer is your imagination
- Well... - You know, there's a lot of thing that's
printed in the paper that people did not say
But the media has the rights to print what they wanna print
You know, victims don't have any rights
Now that I've heard him talk
I don't, I kind of had an idea what he was like
when he talked, but after he talked
he wasn't anything like I thought he'd be
How is he?
I see him now as more like a human being
than I did before. Now I see him as kind of a new personality
Uh, from a defense side point
I've never been a defense attorney, but...
to put him on the witness stand
sure seemed to be an awful big gamble
and I can't understand the mindset that puts you in the position
where you're willing to take that gamble
Especially when you follow it up
with the Mr. Bojangles accusations
it didn't make any sense
Cause it, to me, if I were on the jury
it would look like just some something desperate
You know, they're gonna cast blame on anybody and everybody they can
Which, and the defense didn't have the guts to actually ask him did he do it
The song that I wrote can relate to Metallica
The Sanitarium
Cause I feel like all those times I was in the hospital I didn't need it
It...
It was just the police, another way for them setting me up
when they couldn't send me to prison or something
like, well, we'll get him out of our way for a little while, but
Sending him somewhere else
I like Metallica because...
well, all...
hard music like that because
it like gives me an adrenaline rush
and...
makes me feel more alive
Now, during the course of...
uh, talking to Mr. Echols
did you ask him
who did he think did it and why?
In one area he says
he had an opinion for who could've done the murders as being someone sick
and that it was some type of thrill-kill
he also stated that the penis was a symbol of power in his religion
known as Wicca. He also stated that
the number 3 is a sacred number in the belief
And did he tell you anything about demonic forces?
Yes, sir, he said that all people have a demonic force in them
and that, uh, person would have no control over that demonic force
Mr. Echols is not the only person that told you that the children
kids probably died of mutilation, was he?
No, sir
And, Mr. Echols, you asked him
uh, something to the effect of what types of books did he enjoy reading?
- Yes, sir - Okay, and...
um... and he told you
I think, is it Anton Levy and Stephen King?
- Yes, sir - Okay
Now, in your opinion, is there anything unusual about
those being the type of books that Mr. Echols likes to read?
Anton LeVey is a book of Satanic rules and involvement
Uh, Stephen King
seems to be horror movies
uh, horror books
and if you're asking if I felt that was strange, yes, sir, I did
All right
Now, let me refer you back to your statement
that you gave Officer Ridge
Did you tell him in that statement
that you had been a member of a white witch group for 5 years?
- No - Okay
I've never been a member of any group
And so if he put that in his report you're saying that's inaccurate
- Yes, I am - He made that up
Yes, I am
On question number 9
how do you think it would, the person feels
that did this? The answer was
"Probably makes them feel good gives them power"
Now, I guess Officer Ridge said that, too
No, I used common sense on that
- Okay - If someone was doing it
then they must've wanted to
and if they were doing something they wanted to
it must've made them happy I don't think they were doing it
because someone forced them to or because they didn't want to
Okay, so, in your mind
the person that killed these three kids
it's common sense that killing three 8 year olds would make you feel good?
Whoever did it, it must have
Okay, did you also tell him
that each person had a demonic side to him?
I believe every person has a good side and a bad side
- Yes - Well, did you, were those your words
when you referred, when he's got written down here
he stated that there was no control of the demonic portion of people?
He asked me did I think there were some people that, that
that could not control that side I said, yes, I guess there is
It also states that Damien stated that the younger the victim was made more innocent
and in turn more power would be given the person doing the killing
- Right - Okay, did you say that?
- Yes - Okay, those are your words
- Mhmm - Did you pick that up
when you were studying to be a Catholic?
No, I saw that on several movies, books
Question number 11, when he asked you
"How do you think they died?"
and it, the answer is mutilation, cut up all three
"heard they were in the water drowning"
"Cut up one more than the others"
Is that again what Officer Ridge said and you just agreed?
No, I had saw that on TV
newspapers, people talking
And...
you knew about the drowning
- Correct? - I knew they were in the water, I
- didn't know that they drowned - You knew that one was
- cut up more than the others - He asked me was it possible
he said, do you think one was hurt worse than the others
- I said, yeah I guess - Oh, so again
that particular area's one of those things where Officer Ridge
told you and that wasn't your response
you just responded about the drowning and mutilation
If he didn't get the answer he liked he would go back
- and try to get me say something else - And it's your testimony
specifically that you weren't the one who said
one was cut up more than the other
- No, I didn't - It was Officer Ridge who said that
I agreed with him when he said that
Okay. And if he says something different that's be
he'd, he'd be lying about it, right?
- you're the one telling the truth - I wouldn't put it past him
Damien, we're getting close to the end now
How do you feel so far?
I feel good, so far, so far
to me, it looks like we've got it beat
What do you think the worst thing for us right now has been?
The three weeks we've been over here what has hurt you the most?
I only know of two things that have really hurt
that one kid getting up there with Jason
- Yeah - and, um... those girls
The Thursday's newspaper which addressed you testifying on Wednesday
was real good. I talked about that you did well
but Friday's regarding your Thursday testimony wasn't as good
- What do you think? - I think I did real good
on the first day and the second day
it didn't look as good because Davis kept trying to trip me or something
There was one point in there though, where he asked you
he says it looks like you're just changing your story
to fit whatever comes up
and you said, yeah
I was just like halfway listening to him
After all I was, I was real nervous when I first got up there
enough to keep my attention focused and everything, but
after I was up there a few minutes I started daydreaming
Daydreaming
Maybe they'll only halfway kill you when they convict you
- Halfway? How'll they do that? - Yeah
I don't know, maybe they'll start daydreaming and forget what they're doing
Anything wrong with wearing black in and of itself?
No
Anything wrong with heavy metal stuff, in and of itself? No
The book he has, anything wrong in and of itself? No
But when you look at it together
and you get, you begin to see inside Damien Echols
You see inside that person
and you look inside there and there's not a soul in there
My client is a teenager
and we certainly didn't hide that fact from you
And the fact that my client did some writing
take these back, go back and read them, go read all these
But this in and of itself is no evidence of murder
and even if you added all the other things
quote, trappings of occultism according to Dr. Griffiths
that has nothing to do with this case whatsoever
Is it a coincidence
this knife is found behind
in the lake, hidden
behind Jason Baldwin's house?
There are marks on Christopher Byers
where you got like a dash where it's a cut
a cut and an open space a cut and an open space
And if you take this knife
you can see it leaves
a cut and an open space a cut and an open space
Now, if you take
this knife
exhibit, defense exhibit 6
and even with the slightest pressure
it makes a straight line
Crime scene
it doesn't fit for a kid
to bleed to death
and not leave a drop behind
For all the other injuries to their faces
these other injuries gonna bleed too
And there's not a drop of blood
not a drop of blood?
Look at history
Look at hundreds of years of religious history
There have been hundreds of people killed in the name of religion
It is a motivating force
it gives people who want to do evil
want to commit murders, a reason to do what they're doing
Satanic panic
Yeah, that's a scary thing
But it's a scarier thing to convict somebody with no evidence
If you can't figure it out if it doesn't make sense
let's call it a cult killing and find somebody weird
Find somebody who wears black
They let one thing
go by the wayside
Is that there's nothing that links Jason to these activities
Not one witness says
that's what he does, that's his beliefs
We don't have a writing not a drawing, not a picture
not a person, nothing
links him to it
But that doesn't matter
doesn't matter to them because he's sitting over there with Damien
they want you to convict him
Guilty by association is a horrible thing
Damien, do you think he looks like you?
I don't know, not really
I think he's got Domini's ears
- Can you change his diapers, Damien? - Hopefully not
So, do you think you'll be spending more time with your child, Damien?
Hopefully
Come on, Damien, it's time
So what's his first words gonna be, not guilty?
Um, his first words will be capital murder
What's it feel like to be, go through a month long trial?
accused of something you didn't do
Horrible
- are you nervous now? - Yeah
I mean, there's nothing we can do right now but sit around and wait but...
um, you, you got anything you wanna ask me?
Where do we go if, um
the jury comes back out and says I'm not guilty?
Well, where do you wanna go?
- Um... - where do you wanna go?
- Disneyland maybe, yeah - Would you? Would you like to go
to Disneyland? Have you, have you ever been anywhere out of...
Have you ever been on a trip at all?
- Haver Springs - Haver Springs
Well, I tell you what, my man I, I, it'd be a joy to take you
You'd like to go? You would, wouldn't you?
Yeah
Do understand now why we, uh
- Why we didn't want you to testify? - Yeah
Can you see how it hurt Damien? You, I think it did
And then see how they talked about his witnesses
- Mhmm - See, they don't have anything to talk
about us
They don't have anything to talk about cause we didn't give them a chance
And, uh...
Oh, man
It's heavy
Do you think that, um...
this will change at all?
How you treat your friends?
Yeah
What do you think this would do?
What do you think this is gonna do to you and Damien?
You and your friendship with Damien?
- Stop it, I guess, yes - Would you stop being his friend?
I wouldn't be his enemy, but
after this, probably wouldn't be around or nothing
You, you heard what was said about him
Do you think he could have done it?
- Isn't that what they said? - Yeah, you think he could've
Do you think Damien could have killed those little boys?
They made it seem like he did
- What do you think? - I don't know
If you were on that jury, you'd have, would you have a hard time letting him go?
Based on what you heard?
Yeah
I would, too
Would you let yourself go?
Yeah, if I was up there I'd let myself go, yeah
That's the thing I wanted to hear
Cause you know you did good, don't you
Yeah
Did Paul surprise you, on his closing?
I think Paul should have left out the guilt by association part
- that's not - He came hard at that part, did he?
Mhmm
Did you have any idea he was gonna do that?
Mhmm
But I thought he'd be smart enough to stay away from it
Hurt your feelings?
I wanted to strangle him
- Were you watching the jury? - Mhmm
How do you pick it?
With my finger, no
Um...
Now I think it was probably about 60, 40
40 for and 60 against
Once you get out of here you gonna buy a bear?
A whiskey
Not a beer
And I'll buy the Bojangles chicken
I'm gonna get a cigar
cut it open and dump all the tobacco out
fill it with marijuana smoke the whole thing
I mean, we gotta get you out of here, you gotta go to work
we need to pay my bill
Maybe get a job at a gas station or something
Change my name to Bob Smith
All right, ladies and gentlemen the bailiffs inform me
uh, that you've arrived at verdicts
if you, if you have, pass them to the bailiff, please, or the sheriff and...
Thank you
The first verdict reads as follows
"We the jury find Damien Echols guilty of capital murder"
"in the death of Stevie Branch"
"We the jury find Damien Echols guilty of capital murder"
"in the death of Chris Byers"
"We the jury find Damien Echols guilty of capital murder"
"in the death of Michael Moore"
"We the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder"
"in the death of Chris Byers"
"We the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder"
"in the death of Stevie Branch"
"We the jury find Jason Baldwin guilty of capital murder"
"in the death of Michael Moore"
All of the verdicts are signed by the foreman
And ladies and gentlemen it's necessary at this time
that the court poll the jury as to all six verdicts
so, when your name is called
if these six verdicts represent your individual verdict
then answer yes as your name is called
- Juror number 1 - Yes
- Juror number 2 - Yes
- Juror number 3 - Yes
"Juror number 4"
- "Juror number 5" - "Yes"
- "Juror number 6" - "Yes"
- "Juror number 7" - "Yes"
The prosecution didn't have any evidence
but they don't care
Just because somebody wears black and has different beliefs
they're gonna convict them of something
- Poor, poor parents - Yeah
I'm sorry for them, but...
I ain't, I ain't sorry for them
- I'm sorry for the kids - I ain't sorry for them
I don't give a damn about the parents but I'm sorry for the kids
I ain't even sorry...
I ain't sorry for anybody
There's no reason they're...
kill three more boys
that didn't do a damn thing
Right now I wish I was a witch
Talk about a spell on somebody boy, I'd put a good one on
I guess Gitchell goes out with a big bang didn't know he was fucking gonna retire
He said he was gonna retire, now he's probably gonna run for office
I got an office for him
Mayor of hell
Far as I'm concerned West Memphis can go to hell
West Memphis is hell
I have, uh, put my 20 years in
and, uh, hopefully this is the last case I'll have of this magnitude
Uh, hopefully it's my last case
And, uh, I'm leaving on a high note
so there's no better way to leave than your head up high and proud
Well, you know, I, I don't, I don't
I'm not surprised if that, that's what you're asking
you know, I told you earlier I thought the evidence was, was
more than sufficient to make those findings
They will kill no more babies No more babies will they kill
Let's go
The black one...
Here you go
Let's go
- You gonna get out - I know
Damien, did you do it?
- You're gonna fry, Damien - How are you feeling now, Damien?
You're gonna fry, Damien
"Gonna fry"
- See you in hell, Damien - We know you're innocent, Jason
I knew from when I was real small that
people were gonna know who I was I always had that feeling
I just never knew how they were gonna learn
And, I kind of enjoy it because now after if I die
people are gonna remember me forever
they're gonna talk about me for years, people...
in West Memphis will tell their kids stories
it, it'll be like, sort of like I'm the West Memphis boogeyman
Little kids'll be looking under their bed before they go to be
Damien might be under there