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♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYS) ♪
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CATHERINE: Within NXIVM,
there's a secret sisterhood.
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They have to sign a
lifetime vow of obedience,
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and they have to
provide blackmail,
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and they're branding girls.
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I just spoke to India,
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and she did admit
to being branded.
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She thought it was wonderful.
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I will do whatever I
can to get India out.
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MARK: We knew there was
another branding ceremony
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that was about to happen,
and it was like
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"We have to get this story
out and Frank will report it."
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And when he came
out with the news,
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it set the whole
organization into a panic.
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The idea was not just to
expose what was going on.
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It was about getting
people away from danger.
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This organization
has taken my child.
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I will do whatever it
takes to get her back.
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♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪
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(camera beeps)
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Mark Vicente: And...
whenever you're ready.
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You know, like, here we're doing this,
you know, wonderful,
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idealistic movement,
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and we're trying to
create something,
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and we have created something
that just produces value.
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Enhances people's lives.
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And we're just minding our own
business and doing this great thing,
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and we're just being attacked.
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So, I just feel determined.
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You know, like,
"Motherfucker." You know?
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Like,
how could they do this to us?
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When I think of how
destructive that is,
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I think, "Oh,
my God. That is just heinous."
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We're gonna uncover
all these things,
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and then people are gonna say,
"Don't fuck with those people,
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because, you know,
they'll come after you."
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You know? "They will,
they will figure it out.
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"They will... They
won't let it go.
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They're not... They
don't let things slide."
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(Kristin Keeffe continues)
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(laughs)
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Yeah!
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("Dream State" by
Son Lux playing)
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♪ Days we were young ♪
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♪ We took photographs of
everything we could see ♪
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♪ We had to run from it ♪
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♪ Priest and prophetess ♪
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♪ We were nothing
we would defy ♪
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♪ Oh, invisible skin ♪
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♪ Where is the world within ♪
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♪ Invincible skin ♪
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♪ It's how we all begin ♪
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(birds chirping)
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(baby babbling)
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Sarah Edmondson:
He asks about Albany.
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He's like, "Mommy,
when are we going back to Albany?"
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- I wanna get down. I wanna get down.
- What about your sweatshirt?
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- I wanna get... I want...
- Ooh.
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What about your sweatshirt?
You wanna put it on like a cape?
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- Troy: Yeah.
- Put it on like a cape.
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I'm gonna give you this
jacket in case (indistinct).
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- Troy: Superman!
- Edmondson: Good?
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Bye, Troy. Love you!
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Edmondson: So I got a
call from the police officer
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from the financial
crimes unit in Vancouver
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saying that they were trying to
get me arrested on three fronts:
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fraud, mischief, and theft.
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I knew this was coming,
because I'd heard
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through someone who was
kind of playing both sides
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that they were preparing
a legal case against me.
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That's when I called Jim,
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because he was one of
the main leaders of SOP,
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and also,
I considered him to be a friend.
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Jim Del Negro: Yeah.
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(Edmondson speaking)
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- Del Negro: Mm-hmm.
- (Edmondson speaking)
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Edmondson: I really don't.
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(Edmondson speaking)
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Nippy Ames: I'm not angry at
the people still in. I understand it.
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I've been on that side of it.
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Jim and a couple other
friends are the ones that, like,
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as I'm sitting here,
I'm struggling to...
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you know, I, I still feel...
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I still feel like they're my buddies,
you know?
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And I feel...
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You know,
I spoke to him and Mark,
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you know,
almost every other day.
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And he showed me
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a level of compassion that,
you know, from a guy,
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you might even think is
somewhat uncomfortable.
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But, you know,
he showed me love,
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uh, in a way that, you know,
another guy hadn't.
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He, he hung in there with me,
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and he really helped me,
where I just didn't have
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certain skill sets
in certain areas,
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and he goes,
"I know you to want these things,
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"and when you behave like this,
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you undermine the
things that you want."
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You know, he was the kind
of guy who could tell me that,
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much like a brother could.
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Del Negro: I think a lot of times,
we're doers.
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And men,
we like to accomplish things.
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And sometimes,
that gets in the way
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of our relationships
with each other
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and standing up for each other.
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And there's nobody that I know
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that does that and
represents that more
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than Keith Raniere.
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So, I give you Keith Raniere.
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(applauding)
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Ames: And that's the
hard part of this whole thing.
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He's, you know, loyal to Keith,
I think to a fault.
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♪
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Vicente: We kept getting
information through people that were
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on the inside,
straddling things,
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that realized things were bad,
but didn't wanna,
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y ou know, make a big fuss.
That basically said, you know,
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message is the legal
dogs have been released,
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and that I am going to
be considered the enemy.
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Well,
he's gonna find a way to get us.
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He has an army of people,
about a hundred strong,
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who are so devoted.
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They will sell us out.
They will lie about us.
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They will make
up stuff about us.
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They will do everything
they possibly can
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to try to convince the
world that we're criminals.
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So we're up
against not only him,
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but all of his agents, as well.
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When other people
were leaving...
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Bonnie Piesse: It was like he
didn't want to get contaminated
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- by the evil, right? - Yeah.
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At that point,
I trusted Keith completely.
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You think they're, like,
the most ethical...
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- Completely.
- ...noble people in the world.
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(line ringing)
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Vicente: Hello?
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- Keeffe (over phone): Hey.
- How's it going?
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Keeffe (over phone): Good.
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Vicente: Mm-hmm.
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♪
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Vicente: Kristin Keeffe
was a proctor in ESP.
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And she was the legal
liaison for a long time.
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In fact, she worked with the
lawyers on all of the lawsuits.
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"I'm thinking of sit, like, doing,
like, belts, like martial arts,
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but instead of judo, sashes."
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And I was like, "Keith,
you can't do that. That's so queer."
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But like,
that... I remember that very specifically.
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You were like...
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(laughs) Yeah.
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Vicente: She seemed very
close to Keith Raniere, as well.
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But then she suddenly
just disappeared,
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and I didn't know why.
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And I found out later she ran,
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because she had a
baby with Keith Raniere.
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Keith Raniere: Anywhere in
your body that there's a sensation
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that you try to... try to ignore,
or try to suppress,
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it just gets stronger
and stronger.
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And perhaps there are areas in
your body you haven't noticed before.
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Like certainly you've noticed your stomach,
at times.
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And maybe the sensation
in your stomach now
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is changing,
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but not going away.
Maybe intensifying.
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Maybe not. But
probably intensifying.
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You may even be
coming less comfortable.
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But that's okay.
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I guess you're not gonna
let me finish my report.
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- No, you're almost done.
- I'm, I'm trying to read.
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- Yeah, that's okay. You can finish your report.
- Can you... can you stop?
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I, I can stop,
and you wanna know what else?
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I will stop.
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Right.
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Sorta.
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(typing)
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- Vicente: Right.
- (Keeffe continues)
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- Vicente: Yeah.
- (Keeffe continues)
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Vicente: Mm-hmm.
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♪
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Vicente: What I was told was,
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when you officially resign,
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give it a few weeks.
She'll reach out to you.
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It's fuckin' full
espionage shit.
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And she does.
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And it's burner phones, man.
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Fuckin' different
numbers every week.
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Just fuckin' never know where she is,
and like,
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we're talking all the time.
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Vicente: And so that's
when she says to me,
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"I can help you." And a few days later,
we called Sarah.
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Vicente: Hmm.
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00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:00,673
Vicente: Clare Bronfman,
heir to the Seagram's fortune,
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00:13:00,756 --> 00:13:03,673
is the financier of NXIVM.
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But when I first came in,
she was a coach.
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Vicente: Right.
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00:13:30,839 --> 00:13:33,297
Vicente: But,
she eventually took control of legal.
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00:13:33,381 --> 00:13:36,089
She's on the executive board.
So she had more and more power,
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you know, as the years went on.
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At this point, in essence,
she's funding a lot of the lawsuits
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against the perceived
enemies of ESP.
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She was probably told it
was the ethical thing to do.
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Okay,
so a number of things were happening
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00:14:39,089 --> 00:14:43,589
in ESP and the company
that weren't necessarily good.
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00:14:43,673 --> 00:14:47,047
Did you guys have a chance
to do any research on NXIVM?
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00:14:47,130 --> 00:14:48,964
Edmondson: This
is like Scientology.
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00:14:49,047 --> 00:14:51,214
It is a cult, where the leader
205
00:14:51,297 --> 00:14:54,547
is keeping people through
fear and dependency
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00:14:54,631 --> 00:14:56,714
and now, blackmail.
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00:14:56,798 --> 00:14:58,923
I can't spell NXIVM
for the life of me.
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00:14:59,005 --> 00:15:02,839
Vicente: ESP has had about
15,000 people go through it.
209
00:15:02,923 --> 00:15:05,464
In terms of permanent members,
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00:15:05,547 --> 00:15:07,464
it's probably 700 to 800 people.
211
00:15:07,547 --> 00:15:10,589
What happened was,
I was invited into this women's group...
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00:15:10,673 --> 00:15:12,589
The secret society
is called DOS.
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00:15:12,673 --> 00:15:13,673
DOS. D-O-S.
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00:15:13,714 --> 00:15:17,547
Edmondson: Dominus
obsequious sororium.
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00:15:17,631 --> 00:15:20,881
Which I believe means "dominant
over submissive" or something like that.
216
00:15:20,964 --> 00:15:24,589
By the way, DOS does not stand
for "dominant over submissive."
217
00:15:24,673 --> 00:15:25,756
I made one error.
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00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:28,089
That means "dominant
submissive sorority."
219
00:15:28,172 --> 00:15:32,172
I think there are about at least
50 women in this secret society.
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00:15:32,255 --> 00:15:35,923
You are aware, I'm sure, that my
daughter is a DOS slave at this point.
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00:15:36,005 --> 00:15:40,130
The girls were branded
in a branding ceremony.
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00:15:40,214 --> 00:15:44,089
Man (over phone): This business was ESP,
right?
223
00:15:44,172 --> 00:15:47,631
- Woman (over phone): N-X-I-V-M?
- Yes.
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00:15:47,714 --> 00:15:50,547
Just point me in the right direction. I'm,
like, a distraught mom.
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I will... I will knock
on anybody's door.
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00:15:52,798 --> 00:15:55,172
I don't care anymore if I'm prepared,
not prepared.
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00:15:55,255 --> 00:15:58,422
I've been living with this for
months now. I can't take it.
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♪
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00:16:04,839 --> 00:16:07,756
Vicente: This morning
Sarah contacted
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00:16:07,839 --> 00:16:10,297
the head of victim services in Latham,
New York.
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00:16:10,381 --> 00:16:15,297
Uh, she referred Sarah to an
investigator in the police department.
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00:16:15,381 --> 00:16:20,297
So, Sarah spoke to him and
I'm waiting to hear from her.
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00:16:20,381 --> 00:16:23,047
(laptop jingling)
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00:16:23,130 --> 00:16:25,089
- Vicente: Hey.
- Edmondson (over laptop): Hi.
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00:16:25,172 --> 00:16:28,255
Vicente: I have, uh, Catherine here,
and Bonnie here, as well.
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00:16:28,339 --> 00:16:29,839
Hi.
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00:16:29,923 --> 00:16:31,714
Women: Hey, Sarah.
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00:16:31,798 --> 00:16:33,631
Vicente: So, the investigator.
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00:16:33,714 --> 00:16:37,506
- Edmondson: Yeah.
- Vicente: What was his conclusion so far?
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00:16:37,589 --> 00:16:40,297
Edmondson: Um,
that it's definitely fucked up.
241
00:16:40,381 --> 00:16:43,881
He's not totally sure
where the crimes are. Um...
242
00:16:44,881 --> 00:16:46,047
Yeah.
243
00:16:49,422 --> 00:16:51,798
You look like you need a rest.
244
00:16:53,297 --> 00:16:56,089
Catherine Oxenberg: I'm
sending you love from here.
245
00:16:57,964 --> 00:17:00,172
I feel it. Thank you.
246
00:17:00,255 --> 00:17:03,255
♪
247
00:17:05,589 --> 00:17:08,172
Oxenberg: What else can we do?
248
00:17:08,255 --> 00:17:11,255
Vicente: Speak. I mean,
how do you get
249
00:17:11,339 --> 00:17:14,255
law enforcement to
move in this country?
250
00:17:14,339 --> 00:17:17,130
You fuckin' blow
it up in the press.
251
00:17:19,255 --> 00:17:22,923
♪
252
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,130
Barry Meier (over phone): Uh...
253
00:17:39,172 --> 00:17:40,089
Okay.
254
00:17:40,172 --> 00:17:43,339
(Meier speaking)
255
00:17:43,422 --> 00:17:44,422
Vicente: Twelve years.
256
00:17:44,464 --> 00:17:46,839
I was one of the highest-ranking
257
00:17:46,923 --> 00:17:49,339
male members
that's ever defected.
258
00:17:50,130 --> 00:17:52,881
(Meier speaking)
259
00:17:52,964 --> 00:17:55,631
Well, there is no, there is no
good way to leave this organization.
260
00:17:55,714 --> 00:17:59,798
You are usually harassed,
spied on, et cetera, et cetera.
261
00:17:59,881 --> 00:18:02,464
(Meier speaking)
262
00:18:02,547 --> 00:18:04,881
Vicente: There are members
in our group of people
263
00:18:04,964 --> 00:18:07,297
that have left that
have had threats.
264
00:18:07,381 --> 00:18:11,422
Now,
we have spoken to law enforcement.
265
00:18:11,506 --> 00:18:13,756
Uh,
there is this Frank Report thing out,
266
00:18:13,839 --> 00:18:16,214
but it's a very
marginal website.
267
00:18:16,297 --> 00:18:17,964
And we began thinking, you know,
268
00:18:18,047 --> 00:18:21,255
what needs to happen
is a reputable source
269
00:18:21,339 --> 00:18:23,047
needs to look at this,
270
00:18:23,130 --> 00:18:26,172
and, and I'll tell you,
there's a lot of reading you can do
271
00:18:26,255 --> 00:18:28,047
to understand the
larger story. And in fact,
272
00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:32,005
there was an article
in "Forbes" magazine.
273
00:18:34,005 --> 00:18:37,130
There were many articles
from the "Times Union."
274
00:18:39,506 --> 00:18:43,422
There were many sort of
breaking news-type stories about
275
00:18:43,506 --> 00:18:46,839
different women that
left the organization.
276
00:18:48,506 --> 00:18:52,464
(Meier speaking)
277
00:18:52,547 --> 00:18:55,756
Pretty much all of it. I was sleeping very,
very little.
278
00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:59,756
I was dedicating my time to
constantly solving different problems.
279
00:18:59,839 --> 00:19:02,214
I put my career on hold.
280
00:19:07,547 --> 00:19:10,381
My first year that I was kind of around,
in and out,
281
00:19:10,464 --> 00:19:12,673
I went to Keith
Raniere and I said,
282
00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:14,464
"This bad press
is a real problem."
283
00:19:14,547 --> 00:19:18,714
And he's like, "Eh,
not really." I'm like, "What?"
284
00:19:57,214 --> 00:19:58,881
Vicente: Right.
285
00:19:59,589 --> 00:20:01,130
(line ringing)
286
00:20:01,214 --> 00:20:02,839
Vicente: He said to me,
287
00:20:02,923 --> 00:20:05,506
"Fearful people that
can't think critically
288
00:20:05,589 --> 00:20:08,464
"hear something, and freak out.
289
00:20:09,714 --> 00:20:11,589
"We don't want those people.
290
00:20:11,673 --> 00:20:14,005
"We want the people
that can reason things out.
291
00:20:14,089 --> 00:20:17,005
"The ones that just,
don't just freak out over nothing.
292
00:20:17,089 --> 00:20:18,839
We want the critical thinkers."
293
00:20:18,923 --> 00:20:22,047
And I was like,
"That is brilliant."
294
00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:24,172
(line ringing)
295
00:20:24,255 --> 00:20:26,464
(Vicente speaking)
296
00:20:48,297 --> 00:20:50,881
- (beeps) -Vicente: And I would
say it with such confidence.
297
00:20:50,964 --> 00:20:54,047
Because, like, in some ways,
it's the guardian at the gate
298
00:20:54,130 --> 00:20:57,005
to make sure that
we get the best.
299
00:20:57,673 --> 00:21:01,005
Camera. Marker.
300
00:21:01,089 --> 00:21:02,631
Vicente: From the
moment I get there,
301
00:21:02,714 --> 00:21:05,339
they want me to figure
out how to make the film
302
00:21:05,422 --> 00:21:08,756
to exonerate Keith of
all this terrible press.
303
00:21:08,839 --> 00:21:11,464
And me and Keith and Kristin
Keeffe and a bunch of people
304
00:21:11,547 --> 00:21:13,464
begin having a discussion about,
like,
305
00:21:13,547 --> 00:21:17,047
how do we show that what's
been done to Keith in the press
306
00:21:17,130 --> 00:21:18,547
is horrible,
307
00:21:18,631 --> 00:21:21,130
and this is the very
problem in civilization.
308
00:21:21,214 --> 00:21:23,589
That when somebody tries
to do extraordinary things,
309
00:21:23,673 --> 00:21:24,923
they get suppressed.
310
00:21:25,005 --> 00:21:27,422
And we start shooting
this pro-Raniere
311
00:21:27,506 --> 00:21:28,923
anti-cult film,
312
00:21:29,005 --> 00:21:31,339
and it was basically
to vindicate him.
313
00:21:32,923 --> 00:21:36,214
To think that Keith and Nancy's
names would go down as...
314
00:21:36,297 --> 00:21:38,422
They would go down
in history as schmucks,
315
00:21:38,506 --> 00:21:40,464
when in my opinion they're both,
316
00:21:40,547 --> 00:21:44,172
you know,
intellectual and humanitarian giants.
317
00:21:44,255 --> 00:21:45,631
Uh, I can't live with that.
318
00:21:45,714 --> 00:21:47,464
'Cause I understand that,
319
00:21:47,547 --> 00:21:49,190
you know,
reality isn't what it looks like.
320
00:21:49,214 --> 00:21:51,798
And I understand that
justice doesn't happen.
321
00:21:51,881 --> 00:21:53,798
You got to make justice happen.
322
00:21:53,881 --> 00:21:57,130
So, I just feel determined.
323
00:21:57,214 --> 00:21:59,756
Vicente: We spent years
and years planning this film,
324
00:21:59,839 --> 00:22:03,005
but never made it, because the
bad press just kept on coming out,
325
00:22:03,089 --> 00:22:06,881
and we had to keep on coming
up with different strategies,
326
00:22:06,964 --> 00:22:09,381
which we never could.
327
00:22:09,464 --> 00:22:12,756
So, this is when the story
gets even more interesting.
328
00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:16,255
So, Raniere tells me that the,
the issue is
329
00:22:17,089 --> 00:22:18,798
all the negative press
330
00:22:18,881 --> 00:22:22,547
is written by journalists who,
in essence, are being paid off,
331
00:22:22,631 --> 00:22:25,881
funded in extremely
high level in the world,
332
00:22:25,964 --> 00:22:28,506
with billions of
dollars behind it.
333
00:22:28,589 --> 00:22:32,172
Because, you know, you have young,
fairly open-minded children
334
00:22:32,255 --> 00:22:35,005
from very powerful
families come to take ESP,
335
00:22:35,089 --> 00:22:37,673
as apparently happened
with the Bronfmans,
336
00:22:37,756 --> 00:22:39,839
who came in 2002.
337
00:22:39,923 --> 00:22:42,506
And suddenly saw
the world differently.
338
00:22:42,589 --> 00:22:44,714
♪ ♪
339
00:23:55,964 --> 00:23:58,339
Vicente: So what happens
if they stop responding
340
00:23:58,422 --> 00:24:03,422
to the parental pressures
that they used to respond to?
341
00:24:03,506 --> 00:24:07,381
And Keith would explain,
"Their family's extremely powerful,
342
00:24:07,464 --> 00:24:10,506
and they see this as a threat,
and they come after me."
343
00:24:13,005 --> 00:24:16,756
I was told that Clare
Bronfman got upset one day,
344
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:18,130
told her father something,
345
00:24:18,214 --> 00:24:21,214
and her father tried to
destroy ESP and the mission.
346
00:24:23,047 --> 00:24:25,339
He was behind
the "Forbes" article.
347
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:33,506
She was basically responsible
for a lot of the bad press.
348
00:24:33,589 --> 00:24:36,589
That was considered her breach.
349
00:24:51,214 --> 00:24:53,422
Vicente: And so it seemed
like she was gonna spend
350
00:24:53,506 --> 00:24:57,547
the rest of her life fixing it,
at Raniere's behest, I guess.
351
00:25:04,506 --> 00:25:06,631
Oxenberg: I really
struggled with
352
00:25:06,714 --> 00:25:08,339
the idea of going to the press.
353
00:25:08,422 --> 00:25:11,381
That being said,
I'd been speaking with Barry Meier.
354
00:25:11,464 --> 00:25:13,756
And I said to him,
"I want this to be
355
00:25:13,839 --> 00:25:16,089
"a piece that could impact
356
00:25:16,172 --> 00:25:20,506
"a broader range of people
into really understanding
357
00:25:20,589 --> 00:25:22,422
the danger of this."
358
00:25:22,506 --> 00:25:26,089
♪
359
00:25:28,047 --> 00:25:30,297
I'm coming to pick up my mother.
360
00:25:30,381 --> 00:25:33,339
Because she's coming to give me
some emotional support right now,
361
00:25:33,422 --> 00:25:37,881
because I was feeling
particularly alone in this fight,
362
00:25:37,964 --> 00:25:40,673
as far as my family's concerned.
363
00:25:40,756 --> 00:25:42,506
(indistinct chatter)
364
00:25:42,589 --> 00:25:45,673
- Hello, Mama. Oh. - (kisses)
365
00:25:45,756 --> 00:25:49,214
- You made it! - (indistinct)
366
00:25:49,297 --> 00:25:51,089
(laughs) That's cute.
367
00:25:57,798 --> 00:26:00,559
- Princess Elizabeth: No. No, I don't think so.
- Oxenberg: You don't.
368
00:26:13,798 --> 00:26:14,923
To the girl...
369
00:26:26,631 --> 00:26:27,798
Yep.
370
00:26:32,005 --> 00:26:33,005
Mm-hmm.
371
00:26:41,756 --> 00:26:43,839
Oxenberg: Yes,
this is a slightly...
372
00:26:47,673 --> 00:26:49,130
It's ghastly.
373
00:26:58,464 --> 00:27:00,464
Princess Elizabeth:
Yes. She will.
374
00:27:12,506 --> 00:27:15,923
♪
375
00:27:24,381 --> 00:27:26,482
Oxenberg: I mean,
there are people in that organization
376
00:27:26,506 --> 00:27:28,964
that don't have relationships
with their families anymore,
377
00:27:29,047 --> 00:27:31,381
and they're not young
anymore like her.
378
00:27:31,464 --> 00:27:33,589
They've dedicated
their entire life to
379
00:27:33,673 --> 00:27:36,172
upholding this ideology.
380
00:29:02,047 --> 00:29:06,005
I think that the whole idea about
having him come was to basically...
381
00:29:07,339 --> 00:29:09,089
vindicate Raniere.
382
00:29:09,172 --> 00:29:11,923
And then what happened is,
that event got canceled.
383
00:29:14,422 --> 00:29:16,881
Because there was a
lot of negative press,
384
00:29:16,964 --> 00:29:18,255
the Dalai Lama was pressured,
385
00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:20,148
and he said something to the effect of,
you know,
386
00:29:20,172 --> 00:29:23,464
"We need to examine these
things before we take the next step."
387
00:29:26,506 --> 00:29:29,964
That's when myself,
Nancy Salzman, Sara Bronfman,
388
00:29:30,047 --> 00:29:31,923
and Keith Raniere
went to Dharamsala
389
00:29:32,005 --> 00:29:33,589
to try to convince
the Dalai Lama
390
00:29:33,673 --> 00:29:36,089
that, you know,
Keith Raniere was a good guy,
391
00:29:36,172 --> 00:29:37,339
and to please come.
392
00:29:37,422 --> 00:29:40,964
And so,
I went to document the whole meeting.
393
00:29:41,047 --> 00:29:42,857
- Raniere: It's that way.
- Nancy Salzman: Which way?
394
00:29:42,881 --> 00:29:44,297
There it is.
395
00:29:45,339 --> 00:29:47,964
(motorcycle rumbling)
396
00:29:48,047 --> 00:29:52,964
♪
397
00:30:07,464 --> 00:30:09,881
- (Dalai Lama speaking)
- Raniere: Good morning.
398
00:30:19,381 --> 00:30:20,839
Yes.
399
00:30:20,923 --> 00:30:24,923
I guess first and foremost,
I wanted to apologize.
400
00:30:26,297 --> 00:30:30,881
I... The things written
about me are not true.
401
00:30:30,964 --> 00:30:33,089
To the best of my knowledge,
402
00:30:33,172 --> 00:30:36,297
the factual
information is not true.
403
00:30:36,381 --> 00:30:39,881
But it is my responsibility,
404
00:30:39,964 --> 00:30:42,255
and I do want to change that.
405
00:30:43,798 --> 00:30:45,923
(speaking English)
406
00:31:10,089 --> 00:31:11,589
Man: Precautions.
407
00:31:36,756 --> 00:31:38,440
Advisor: The different
things proven against him
408
00:31:38,464 --> 00:31:40,756
and he has lawsuits
against others.
409
00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:42,714
These are going on, right?
410
00:31:42,798 --> 00:31:45,089
Are they all settled?
All lawsuits are settled?
411
00:31:47,214 --> 00:31:49,273
Advisor: There's no lawsuit...
Don't you have lawsuits against, uh...
412
00:31:49,297 --> 00:31:50,589
We've actually...
413
00:31:50,673 --> 00:31:53,714
Yeah. Can I give you
a little bit of the history?
414
00:31:53,798 --> 00:31:56,339
- Advisor: Sure. - Um...
415
00:31:56,422 --> 00:32:00,964
It... It is my belief that all of
the accusations against us
416
00:32:01,047 --> 00:32:02,255
are not true.
417
00:32:02,339 --> 00:32:04,089
- Advisor: Okay. - Um...
418
00:32:04,172 --> 00:32:07,714
- And there's never... Now...
- Advisor: Yes.
419
00:32:07,798 --> 00:32:09,047
Um...
420
00:32:09,130 --> 00:32:12,255
The things that
are said are not only
421
00:32:12,339 --> 00:32:13,839
just opinion,
422
00:32:13,923 --> 00:32:16,381
but the facts that
they use are incorrect
423
00:32:16,464 --> 00:32:19,089
to propagate that we are cult,
we are a cult, we are cult
424
00:32:19,172 --> 00:32:20,881
with no evidence.
425
00:32:26,964 --> 00:32:29,923
(laughing) Right?
426
00:32:30,005 --> 00:32:31,839
(indistinct chatter)
427
00:32:39,506 --> 00:32:42,422
Dalai Lama: And he's
dedicated for some good things.
428
00:32:42,506 --> 00:32:44,172
- Isn't it? - Advisor: Okay.
429
00:32:45,381 --> 00:32:47,172
- So, thank you.
- Dalai Lama: Okay.
430
00:32:48,381 --> 00:32:50,631
Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
See you again tomorrow.
431
00:32:50,714 --> 00:32:53,172
Vicente: And at the very end
of the tail end of the meeting,
432
00:32:53,255 --> 00:32:56,172
um, somehow, he said yes.
433
00:32:56,255 --> 00:32:58,130
You know,
and this was the moment that Raniere
434
00:32:58,214 --> 00:32:59,547
would be finally vindicated.
435
00:33:14,214 --> 00:33:15,255
Yes.
436
00:33:31,422 --> 00:33:34,089
♪
437
00:33:34,172 --> 00:33:37,089
Vicente: But despite our
win with the Dalai Lama,
438
00:33:37,172 --> 00:33:41,005
the bad press just
kept on coming.
439
00:33:41,089 --> 00:33:43,339
Jim Odato: He has been
involved with several women
440
00:33:43,422 --> 00:33:46,464
younger than 16 years old.
441
00:33:46,547 --> 00:33:49,881
The girl pictured here lost
her virginity to Keith Raniere
442
00:33:49,964 --> 00:33:51,673
at age 15 or 16.
443
00:33:51,756 --> 00:33:53,089
Her older sister says,
444
00:33:53,172 --> 00:33:55,214
"He had told her that
she was a bodhisattva,
445
00:33:55,297 --> 00:33:58,964
whose soul could be much
older than her biological age."
446
00:33:59,047 --> 00:34:02,589
Hutchinson killed herself
outside a Buddhist monastery
447
00:34:02,673 --> 00:34:04,714
a t age 33.
448
00:34:04,798 --> 00:34:06,589
Vicente: When 2012 rolled around
449
00:34:06,673 --> 00:34:09,255
and the "Times Union" article came out,
I read the whole thing.
450
00:34:09,339 --> 00:34:10,881
That disturbed
the hell out of me.
451
00:34:10,964 --> 00:34:13,047
That was a lot to take in.
452
00:34:13,130 --> 00:34:17,130
♪
453
00:34:19,047 --> 00:34:21,506
But we were trained for years
454
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:23,381
to think that the
most honorable thing
455
00:34:23,464 --> 00:34:24,923
is to maintain silence.
456
00:34:25,005 --> 00:34:27,005
To hold this position of
457
00:34:27,089 --> 00:34:29,923
nobility against these
terrible things in the media.
458
00:34:30,005 --> 00:34:32,381
And at that time,
as a fervent believer,
459
00:34:32,464 --> 00:34:34,523
of course one of my first calls
was to Keith Raniere saying,
460
00:34:34,547 --> 00:34:35,964
you know,
"I think we should talk."
461
00:34:36,047 --> 00:34:38,631
But he was very
well-prepared for these things.
462
00:34:38,714 --> 00:34:40,964
He had answers for everything.
463
00:34:41,047 --> 00:34:42,964
You know,
we get the negative press,
464
00:34:43,047 --> 00:34:45,297
- and I, I think I know where it comes from.
- Mm-hmm.
465
00:34:45,381 --> 00:34:47,547
But the good side of it is,
466
00:34:47,631 --> 00:34:50,422
in learning about it and
watching how it's done,
467
00:34:50,506 --> 00:34:52,547
and watching how
it's done to me,
468
00:34:52,631 --> 00:34:54,798
I was able to come up with
469
00:34:54,881 --> 00:34:56,506
a useful tool set
470
00:34:56,589 --> 00:34:58,923
that can really transform media,
471
00:34:59,005 --> 00:35:02,547
and transform how
people interact with media,
472
00:35:02,631 --> 00:35:05,005
and with the data within media.
473
00:35:05,089 --> 00:35:07,506
Vicente: So 2014,
474
00:35:07,589 --> 00:35:11,089
"The Knife" was born.
475
00:35:11,172 --> 00:35:13,130
I was one of the founding
members of "The Knife."
476
00:35:13,214 --> 00:35:16,547
So in essence,
it was a media company,
477
00:35:16,631 --> 00:35:18,756
and the idea was
to analyze the news
478
00:35:18,839 --> 00:35:22,255
for objectivity,
or lack of objectivity.
479
00:35:22,339 --> 00:35:25,297
So, I trained a group of people,
480
00:35:25,381 --> 00:35:26,631
what we called analysts,
481
00:35:26,714 --> 00:35:29,506
on logic and a series
of Raniere's ideas.
482
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:32,339
There was Rosa Laura Junco,
whose father owns
483
00:35:32,422 --> 00:35:34,297
one of the largest
papers in Mexico,
484
00:35:34,381 --> 00:35:35,673
Nicki Clyne,
485
00:35:35,756 --> 00:35:38,172
Allison Mack,
and Jens Erik Gould,
486
00:35:38,255 --> 00:35:40,047
who used to be with "Bloomberg."
487
00:35:44,172 --> 00:35:46,464
We would talk about the
kind of bias in the article.
488
00:35:46,547 --> 00:35:50,172
The slant, the skew, the use of,
you know, adjectives.
489
00:35:50,255 --> 00:35:53,464
Basically talk about how
objective something was,
490
00:35:53,547 --> 00:35:55,631
versus, you know,
very subjective.
491
00:35:55,714 --> 00:35:59,923
The idea was to give every
newspaper article a rating.
492
00:36:01,547 --> 00:36:02,881
Joining us now to analyze
493
00:36:02,964 --> 00:36:05,631
is the editor-in-chief
of "The Knife" media,
494
00:36:05,714 --> 00:36:06,964
Jens Erik Gould.
495
00:36:07,047 --> 00:36:10,047
Your rating of the
coverage in three outlets
496
00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:12,589
of the Trump Presidency
in the first six months.
497
00:36:12,673 --> 00:36:14,565
Jens Erik Gould: The
language used in their stories
498
00:36:14,589 --> 00:36:16,589
have some sort of vagueness.
499
00:36:16,673 --> 00:36:18,881
Some sort of sensationalism.
Let me give you an example.
500
00:36:18,964 --> 00:36:21,089
Words like "constant chaos,"
501
00:36:21,172 --> 00:36:23,673
"in-fighting,"
"abrupt and angry,"
502
00:36:23,756 --> 00:36:25,964
"warring factions,"
"floundering."
503
00:36:26,047 --> 00:36:28,214
These are words that
are not measurable.
504
00:36:28,297 --> 00:36:30,172
They're not based
on data or facts.
505
00:36:30,255 --> 00:36:32,130
They're emotional,
and they get us riled up,
506
00:36:32,214 --> 00:36:33,339
and we get into that.
507
00:36:33,422 --> 00:36:35,172
But they're not helping
us be more informed.
508
00:36:35,255 --> 00:36:37,190
News host: So when the
President says it's fake news,
509
00:36:37,214 --> 00:36:38,732
what you're here to tell me is,
a lot of it,
510
00:36:38,756 --> 00:36:39,964
if it's not fake,
511
00:36:40,047 --> 00:36:41,881
it's heavily spun
and very biased.
512
00:36:41,964 --> 00:36:43,065
It's an important distinction,
513
00:36:43,089 --> 00:36:44,464
because something can be a fact,
514
00:36:44,547 --> 00:36:46,881
but it can be distorted in
how it's presented to you.
515
00:36:46,964 --> 00:36:49,065
News host: Very interesting.
"Knife Media" is what it's called.
516
00:36:49,089 --> 00:36:51,089
Jens Erik Gould,
thank you for being here today.
517
00:36:51,172 --> 00:36:53,673
Vicente: At the time,
I understood "The Knife"
518
00:36:53,756 --> 00:36:56,214
was a way to
analyze the accuracy
519
00:36:56,297 --> 00:36:59,589
of media outlets...
520
00:36:59,673 --> 00:37:03,214
which I now understand
was literally to prepare people
521
00:37:03,297 --> 00:37:05,714
for any negative press that
would come against ESP,
522
00:37:05,798 --> 00:37:07,839
because they would,
in essence, discard it
523
00:37:07,923 --> 00:37:10,547
for its emotionality.
524
00:37:10,631 --> 00:37:13,381
You know, if you reduce
everything down to the simplest thing,
525
00:37:13,464 --> 00:37:15,381
you know, you go from,
526
00:37:15,464 --> 00:37:17,047
a man raped a woman to
527
00:37:17,130 --> 00:37:20,381
a man did something.
There was a woman involved.
528
00:37:20,464 --> 00:37:22,881
When you, when you basically
take all the emotionality out,
529
00:37:22,964 --> 00:37:25,005
you have no idea
what actually happened.
530
00:37:28,464 --> 00:37:29,798
Vicente: Hello.
531
00:37:40,673 --> 00:37:41,839
Mm-hmm.
532
00:37:42,381 --> 00:37:43,798
(Meier speaking)
533
00:37:43,881 --> 00:37:46,756
Yeah. Here's the
deal. I cannot...
534
00:37:46,839 --> 00:37:49,339
A year ago, I could not imagine
535
00:37:49,422 --> 00:37:51,089
that I would be talking to you,
536
00:37:51,172 --> 00:37:53,798
taking the position
I'm taking. I couldn't.
537
00:37:53,881 --> 00:37:56,297
Because I have a lot to lose
538
00:37:56,381 --> 00:37:59,255
if, if it's public that we're
having this conversation.
539
00:37:59,339 --> 00:38:02,339
This,
this thing is a ligation machine
540
00:38:02,422 --> 00:38:04,964
funded,
funded by a lot of wealth.
541
00:38:05,839 --> 00:38:09,297
(Meier speaking)
542
00:38:12,047 --> 00:38:15,172
- Yeah. - (Meier continues)
543
00:38:17,798 --> 00:38:21,005
- Vicente: Yeah.
- (Meier speaking)
544
00:38:33,255 --> 00:38:35,255
Vicente: All my paranoia...
545
00:38:35,339 --> 00:38:37,631
Literally my 20s in South Africa
546
00:38:37,714 --> 00:38:39,297
for seven years were
watching my back,
547
00:38:39,381 --> 00:38:41,464
looking to see who's following me,
you know.
548
00:38:41,547 --> 00:38:44,756
Being, being, you know,
really espionage-minded,
549
00:38:44,839 --> 00:38:46,589
'cause my father was a spy.
550
00:38:46,673 --> 00:38:49,089
I now feel like I'm
back there again,
551
00:38:49,172 --> 00:38:51,089
doing all the same things.
552
00:38:51,172 --> 00:38:53,964
Walking through a space,
memorizing faces.
553
00:38:54,047 --> 00:38:56,089
Watching cars,
looking for tails.
554
00:38:56,172 --> 00:38:59,130
It's all like,
the same shit I went through.
555
00:38:59,214 --> 00:39:02,047
And it's hard on Bonnie,
you know.
556
00:39:04,422 --> 00:39:07,172
So, Mark started this thing,
like, two years ago
557
00:39:07,255 --> 00:39:09,381
where he wanted to have
cameras in our house.
558
00:39:09,464 --> 00:39:11,673
And at first it felt like,
559
00:39:11,756 --> 00:39:14,839
like that was a good, protective,
you know, safe thing.
560
00:39:14,923 --> 00:39:18,172
So he put a camera here. And,
uh...
561
00:39:18,255 --> 00:39:20,673
(laughs) At first,
that was good.
562
00:39:20,756 --> 00:39:23,255
Now, when I quit, um,
563
00:39:23,339 --> 00:39:27,005
I didn't trust him completely.
564
00:39:27,089 --> 00:39:29,798
I was very paranoid,
and I had called a cult counselor.
565
00:39:29,881 --> 00:39:32,089
And I literally tried
to avoid the camera
566
00:39:32,172 --> 00:39:33,732
so he wouldn't see
me making a phone call.
567
00:39:33,756 --> 00:39:35,798
And I'm, like,
talking in the corner of the kitchen
568
00:39:35,881 --> 00:39:37,673
calling the counselor, paranoid,
569
00:39:37,756 --> 00:39:40,255
saying, like,
"I'm so afraid to call you."
570
00:39:40,339 --> 00:39:43,673
Um,
luckily he didn't rat me out.
571
00:39:43,756 --> 00:39:45,255
So that's fine.
572
00:39:47,756 --> 00:39:50,381
Now,
it feels like we're on the same page,
573
00:39:50,464 --> 00:39:52,589
which is, like,
the most important thing.
574
00:39:52,673 --> 00:39:54,214
We know what we're standing for.
575
00:39:54,297 --> 00:39:55,673
We know what happened to us.
576
00:39:55,756 --> 00:39:58,964
Now we're talking to "The New York Times,"
and...
577
00:39:59,047 --> 00:40:02,214
none of us know
what's gonna happen.
578
00:40:02,297 --> 00:40:04,589
Vicente: Basically,
we've been laying low.
579
00:40:04,673 --> 00:40:06,422
Not a lot of people have
known we were here,
580
00:40:06,506 --> 00:40:07,881
and actually the reason
581
00:40:07,964 --> 00:40:09,214
we're okay with shooting here
582
00:40:09,297 --> 00:40:11,005
is 'cause we're
about to leave here.
583
00:40:14,506 --> 00:40:16,464
What we'd made a decision about
584
00:40:16,547 --> 00:40:19,631
was applying for the
government safe address program.
585
00:40:19,714 --> 00:40:21,130
To basically go off the grid,
586
00:40:21,214 --> 00:40:23,673
so that nobody can find
out where we really are.
587
00:40:23,756 --> 00:40:28,047
A nd all, all mail and all
everything points to Sacramento.
588
00:40:28,130 --> 00:40:30,172
Piesse: It would be
good if we're moved in,
589
00:40:30,255 --> 00:40:31,732
and then "The New
York Times" comes out,
590
00:40:31,756 --> 00:40:33,357
and the address
protection thing will happen
591
00:40:33,381 --> 00:40:35,798
in the next, like,
two weeks. I think.
592
00:40:35,881 --> 00:40:38,756
And then we can be
pretty much off the radar.
593
00:40:38,839 --> 00:40:41,547
If they want to serve us papers,
they can't find us.
594
00:40:43,214 --> 00:40:45,339
(phone bloops)
595
00:40:52,172 --> 00:40:54,172
Oxenberg: All right,
so I got correspondence
596
00:40:54,255 --> 00:40:55,756
from a lawyer,
597
00:40:55,839 --> 00:40:58,964
and a document from what
appears to be NXIVM Mexico,
598
00:40:59,047 --> 00:41:02,381
the letter and notice from
the State Attorney in Mexico
599
00:41:02,464 --> 00:41:03,589
that's notarized.
600
00:41:03,673 --> 00:41:05,547
"I hereby request
the compliance of
601
00:41:05,631 --> 00:41:07,381
the following
restraining measures."
602
00:41:16,714 --> 00:41:19,964
"Failure to comply with such
measures shall bring along
603
00:41:20,047 --> 00:41:22,798
"the imposition of
urgency measures.
604
00:41:22,881 --> 00:41:25,964
"Such measures
vary from a warning,
605
00:41:26,047 --> 00:41:28,130
"up to an arrest for 36 hours,
606
00:41:28,214 --> 00:41:32,589
alongside criminal
responsibilities that shall arrive."
607
00:41:33,214 --> 00:41:35,005
Are you serious?
608
00:41:41,839 --> 00:41:43,839
Vicente: I heard that
Barry went up to Albany
609
00:41:43,923 --> 00:41:45,565
to try to get a statement
from NXIVM so I think...
610
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:48,756
I think that's what tipped
them off about the article.
611
00:41:48,839 --> 00:41:50,714
Oxenberg: So I think
they're trying to attack
612
00:41:50,798 --> 00:41:53,714
anyone that they think might
be speaking to the press.
613
00:41:53,798 --> 00:41:55,130
Yeah. I think so, too.
614
00:41:55,214 --> 00:41:57,089
So I immediately sent the letter
615
00:41:57,172 --> 00:41:59,422
to Barry Meier at
"The New York Times,"
616
00:41:59,506 --> 00:42:00,839
because I wanted his reaction.
617
00:42:00,923 --> 00:42:04,381
Actually,
my thought was if he gets this letter,
618
00:42:04,464 --> 00:42:08,506
maybe he will push for the
article to come out sooner.
619
00:42:08,589 --> 00:42:11,673
But he basically sent me back
an email this morning saying,
620
00:42:11,756 --> 00:42:13,297
"Welcome to the club."
621
00:42:13,381 --> 00:42:15,005
He said he got the same letter,
622
00:42:15,089 --> 00:42:18,047
so I'm baffled why
they are doing this.
623
00:42:20,839 --> 00:42:23,381
(phone jingling)
624
00:43:04,339 --> 00:43:06,798
Hold on one sec. What's going on,
Troy?
625
00:43:07,339 --> 00:43:08,589
Hi, buddy.
626
00:43:09,506 --> 00:43:11,214
Are you gonna go to the park?
627
00:43:11,297 --> 00:43:14,381
I couldn't talk about it 'cause I didn't
want my collateral to be released.
628
00:43:14,464 --> 00:43:15,981
The biggest fear,
I think, is my family,
629
00:43:16,005 --> 00:43:17,605
and, like,
the videos of me trash-talking
630
00:43:17,673 --> 00:43:19,130
all my important relationships.
631
00:43:19,214 --> 00:43:21,297
Those are my biggest things.
632
00:43:21,381 --> 00:43:25,130
And also,
I just don't want a legal battle.
633
00:43:25,214 --> 00:43:26,857
- You know, I know what ESP does.
- Ames: Yeah.
634
00:43:26,881 --> 00:43:29,255
Edmondson: They go after
anyone who speaks against them.
635
00:43:29,339 --> 00:43:30,756
Ames: We have a
three-year-old son.
636
00:43:30,839 --> 00:43:33,673
I don't want to make this
his backdrop to his childhood.
637
00:43:36,047 --> 00:43:39,506
(Keeffe speaking)
638
00:44:33,089 --> 00:44:34,506
Edmondson: Jesus.
639
00:44:38,589 --> 00:44:41,422
(Keefe speaking)
640
00:45:11,339 --> 00:45:13,923
♪
641
00:45:20,297 --> 00:45:22,422
Edmondson: Putting
myself out there
642
00:45:22,506 --> 00:45:24,964
and being the face of this...
643
00:45:25,047 --> 00:45:26,255
is terrifying.
644
00:45:26,339 --> 00:45:27,839
But, like, when I was in ESP,
645
00:45:27,923 --> 00:45:30,381
there were always allegations,
but there was no proof,
646
00:45:30,464 --> 00:45:33,172
or as they say,
"class one data."
647
00:45:33,255 --> 00:45:35,631
You know,
if anyone's gonna say anything about it,
648
00:45:35,714 --> 00:45:38,172
it has to be someone
who's willing to say,
649
00:45:38,255 --> 00:45:39,255
"Hey, here's the proof."
650
00:45:39,339 --> 00:45:41,422
So now I have class one data,
651
00:45:41,506 --> 00:45:42,964
and it's on my body.
652
00:45:43,047 --> 00:45:44,798
And you cannot deny it.
653
00:45:44,881 --> 00:45:48,297
So,
I've decided to go on the record,
654
00:45:48,381 --> 00:45:50,631
and expose this.
655
00:45:50,714 --> 00:45:54,214
I was reluctant to talk to
"The New York Times." Scared.
656
00:45:54,297 --> 00:45:57,089
And I don't want to be associated
with these things, you know?
657
00:45:57,172 --> 00:45:58,714
I'm embarrassed.
658
00:45:58,798 --> 00:46:00,255
You know. And then I was like,
659
00:46:00,339 --> 00:46:02,881
if embarrassment is the
only price to do the right thing,
660
00:46:02,964 --> 00:46:04,231
I'm just gonna go on the record,
661
00:46:04,255 --> 00:46:06,756
and do what I can to
expose this. Take this out.
662
00:46:06,839 --> 00:46:09,047
You'll be surprised how
many times I can say
663
00:46:09,130 --> 00:46:13,756
"Keith Raniere and Allison Mack's
initials are on people's vaginas."
664
00:46:13,839 --> 00:46:16,839
I will put that in every
single statement I can,
665
00:46:16,923 --> 00:46:19,547
and if you leave
reading that article
666
00:46:19,631 --> 00:46:22,464
supporting that,
and you're in that camp,
667
00:46:22,547 --> 00:46:24,464
it's gonna be obvious
that the problem is you,
668
00:46:24,547 --> 00:46:26,839
and not people who are
standing against that stuff.
669
00:46:26,923 --> 00:46:28,422
Spin it however you want.
670
00:46:28,506 --> 00:46:30,964
That's the problem.
That's the bad thing.
671
00:46:31,047 --> 00:46:32,964
I tap out at that.
672
00:46:35,130 --> 00:46:37,506
(camera shutter clicking)
673
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:40,964
Photographer: I'm doing a very slow,
low depth of field,
674
00:46:41,047 --> 00:46:44,297
just on your eyes. That looks great,
Mark.
675
00:46:44,381 --> 00:46:46,589
Tilt your head a
little bit that way.
676
00:46:46,673 --> 00:46:49,506
And now, chin down every so
slightly... Right there. That's good.
677
00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:51,130
- Good.
- Vicente: I said to Barry,
678
00:46:51,214 --> 00:46:53,547
"I don't know if I can go
on the record with this."
679
00:46:53,631 --> 00:46:55,506
I wanted to back away.
680
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:58,631
And he said to me, "I,
I, I just want to tell you,
681
00:46:58,714 --> 00:47:00,673
"the reason this shit
keeps going on is because
682
00:47:00,756 --> 00:47:02,964
people don't want
to go on the record."
683
00:47:03,047 --> 00:47:06,297
I was like,
"Fuck you. That's so true."
684
00:47:06,381 --> 00:47:08,106
Photographer: Oh,
that's good. Straight ahead.
685
00:47:08,130 --> 00:47:09,631
Just into the camera,
just there.
686
00:47:09,714 --> 00:47:11,440
Vicente: They are gonna
look for us more and more,
687
00:47:11,464 --> 00:47:14,547
'cause we're talking about
people that have a lot of resources.
688
00:47:16,881 --> 00:47:18,297
No.
689
00:47:18,381 --> 00:47:20,130
Vicente: So Bonnie
and I spoke about it,
690
00:47:20,214 --> 00:47:22,357
and said, "Okay." And it was like,
it was like a suicide mission.
691
00:47:22,381 --> 00:47:24,964
Just, like,
we can't live with ourselves.
692
00:47:31,798 --> 00:47:34,339
(camera shutter clicking)
693
00:47:34,422 --> 00:47:35,881
What do I do with myself?
694
00:47:37,422 --> 00:47:40,464
- Yeah.
- (photographer speaking)
695
00:47:40,547 --> 00:47:42,065
- That is true.
- Photographer: You can even put it up
696
00:47:42,089 --> 00:47:43,798
a little bit higher,
if you want.
697
00:47:43,881 --> 00:47:45,631
All right,
you guys. Look over here at me.
698
00:47:45,714 --> 00:47:47,923
- (camera shutter
clicking) - Good.
699
00:47:48,756 --> 00:47:50,881
(phone jingling)
700
00:47:52,255 --> 00:47:53,714
Vicente: Hello.
701
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:59,547
Vicente: So there's, uh,
Catherine on the record,
702
00:47:59,631 --> 00:48:03,297
there's Sarah on the record,
there's Sarah's husband,
703
00:48:03,381 --> 00:48:05,255
as well, on the record.
704
00:48:05,339 --> 00:48:08,381
And then, myself and Bonnie.
705
00:48:08,464 --> 00:48:10,547
Um, there are
706
00:48:10,631 --> 00:48:12,714
a number of other
girls that are coming out.
707
00:48:12,798 --> 00:48:14,673
But I don't know their status,
708
00:48:14,756 --> 00:48:16,556
whether they'd want
to talk about this or not.
709
00:48:16,589 --> 00:48:19,589
- (Meier speaking)
- Vicente: Mm-hmm.
710
00:48:19,673 --> 00:48:23,130
(Meier continues)
711
00:48:23,756 --> 00:48:24,923
Okay.
712
00:48:26,464 --> 00:48:29,023
- Vicente: I'm gonna talk to a few different people.
- Meier: Right.
713
00:48:29,047 --> 00:48:30,881
Vicente: But I think
in about 3 or 4 days,
714
00:48:30,964 --> 00:48:33,881
I'll probably have a pretty
clear list of who would talk.
715
00:48:33,964 --> 00:48:35,631
(Meier speaking)
716
00:48:40,881 --> 00:48:43,339
(line ringing)
717
00:48:44,714 --> 00:48:47,297
Vicente: I wanted to just go
back to the question you had
718
00:48:47,381 --> 00:48:50,255
about that article.
719
00:48:50,339 --> 00:48:52,798
Vicente: Um, what did you hear?
720
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:06,005
(line ringing)
721
00:50:22,839 --> 00:50:26,381
♪
722
00:50:30,005 --> 00:50:31,798
Oxenberg: I wasn't 100% sure,
723
00:50:31,881 --> 00:50:35,297
her level of involvement,
but... (sighs)
724
00:50:35,381 --> 00:50:38,673
my daughter India,
she's a ringleader.
725
00:50:38,756 --> 00:50:41,756
She's a slave,
and she's a master.
726
00:50:44,422 --> 00:50:47,381
I don't think I'm
gonna get her out
727
00:50:47,464 --> 00:50:49,923
until the organization
is taken down.
728
00:50:52,464 --> 00:50:54,798
(line ringing)
729
00:50:56,422 --> 00:50:59,422
- Do you think it's too late to call?
- (line ringing)
730
00:51:00,422 --> 00:51:02,673
Oxenberg: Hey, Barry.
731
00:51:02,756 --> 00:51:05,547
- Obviously, you know why I'm calling.
- (Meier speaking)
732
00:51:05,631 --> 00:51:10,547
India's still in
the clutches of...
733
00:51:10,631 --> 00:51:13,214
that in... that madman.
734
00:51:13,297 --> 00:51:16,255
And being subjected
to more mind control,
735
00:51:16,339 --> 00:51:17,756
so that's really hard on me.
736
00:51:17,839 --> 00:51:19,940
- Yeah. We're, we're...
- What... tell... What do you know?
737
00:51:19,964 --> 00:51:24,339
(Meier speaking)
738
00:51:27,339 --> 00:51:28,673
Keep the faith. Keep the faith.
739
00:51:28,756 --> 00:51:30,273
- Okay, and so you can't...
- Meier: Keep the faith.
740
00:51:30,297 --> 00:51:33,422
Can you give me, like,
a vague ballpark?
741
00:51:33,506 --> 00:51:36,255
- (Meier speaking) - Well,
like, how about a...
742
00:51:36,339 --> 00:51:38,297
day. Not the time,
but just the day.
743
00:51:38,381 --> 00:51:40,339
(both laughing)
744
00:51:40,839 --> 00:51:42,839
(Meier speaking)
745
00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:49,172
Oxenberg: Mm.
746
00:52:08,172 --> 00:52:09,381
Yeah.
747
00:52:14,047 --> 00:52:15,673
Oxenberg: Mm-hmm.
748
00:52:24,589 --> 00:52:25,839
God.
749
00:52:26,756 --> 00:52:28,464
This is nerve-wracking.
750
00:52:28,547 --> 00:52:31,756
♪
751
00:52:36,839 --> 00:52:38,631
Edmondson: He's
ruining people's lives.
752
00:52:38,714 --> 00:52:41,381
People's lives that I
brought into the company.
753
00:52:41,464 --> 00:52:44,005
That is terrifying to me.
754
00:52:44,089 --> 00:52:46,047
How do I reconcile that?
755
00:52:47,964 --> 00:52:50,214
And my friends in Albany,
my close friends,
756
00:52:50,297 --> 00:52:51,657
people who were
at our wedding say,
757
00:52:51,714 --> 00:52:53,089
"Oh, you seem really fearful
758
00:52:53,172 --> 00:52:54,357
"and you're making
a rash decision.
759
00:52:54,381 --> 00:52:55,901
It seems like you're
having a tantrum."
760
00:52:56,005 --> 00:52:57,923
I'm not having a
fucking tantrum.
761
00:52:58,005 --> 00:53:01,547
I'm the most principled I've
ever been in my fucking life.
762
00:53:01,631 --> 00:53:03,631
That's why I knew that
I had to do the article,
763
00:53:03,714 --> 00:53:06,172
because I had to
reach them somehow.
764
00:53:06,255 --> 00:53:09,673
And Frank Parlato... The Frank
Report isn't the way to do it.
765
00:53:09,756 --> 00:53:11,589
It's too sensationalized.
766
00:53:13,881 --> 00:53:16,005
If we expose this,
then, then they have
767
00:53:16,089 --> 00:53:17,565
the opportunity to
leave if they want to.
768
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:19,923
If they want to keep going,
go ahead.
769
00:53:22,756 --> 00:53:26,005
(phone ringing)
770
00:53:26,089 --> 00:53:27,589
Oxenberg: Sarah?
771
00:53:27,673 --> 00:53:30,214
- Edmondson (over phone): Yeah.
- Hey, sorry to bother you,
772
00:53:30,297 --> 00:53:32,839
but I just found
out some bad news.
773
00:53:32,923 --> 00:53:34,381
- Edmondson: Okay.
- Oxenberg: So,
774
00:53:34,464 --> 00:53:38,130
"The New York Times" doesn't
consider this story urgent,
775
00:53:38,214 --> 00:53:40,339
and there's a chance that
776
00:53:40,422 --> 00:53:42,839
they may postpone
it indefinitely.
777
00:53:44,589 --> 00:53:47,089
Basically,
the story is considered evergreen.
778
00:53:47,172 --> 00:53:50,381
There is no... They don't think
there's any urgency to this story.
779
00:53:50,464 --> 00:53:54,047
But they don't have a kid
in there that's wasting away.
780
00:53:54,130 --> 00:53:56,422
Edmondson: You just to talk
to him. You need to move this.
781
00:53:56,506 --> 00:53:57,881
This isn't the gossip column.
782
00:53:57,964 --> 00:54:00,422
People's lives are being ruined.
783
00:54:02,798 --> 00:54:04,297
Oxenberg: I'm desperate.
784
00:54:04,381 --> 00:54:06,714
I don't know if you know
what's going on inside my body,
785
00:54:06,798 --> 00:54:08,547
but I am desperate.
786
00:54:08,631 --> 00:54:12,714
Because I don't know what
else we can do at this point.
787
00:54:12,798 --> 00:54:16,339
I really don't. Like,
somebody tell us... give us an option.
788
00:54:19,714 --> 00:54:23,464
♪
789
00:54:29,172 --> 00:54:33,130
Meier: I don't think that
someone signing up for
790
00:54:33,214 --> 00:54:36,255
self-improvement or
self-help is a horrible thing
791
00:54:36,339 --> 00:54:38,130
or a bad thing.
792
00:54:38,214 --> 00:54:42,089
I'm so incapable of self-improvement,
okay,
793
00:54:42,172 --> 00:54:45,923
that it just doesn't appeal to me,
straight up.
794
00:54:46,005 --> 00:54:48,089
Right? It's like
there's no hope for me.
795
00:54:48,172 --> 00:54:50,673
There's just no... Nothing
that could be done.
796
00:54:50,756 --> 00:54:53,547
Even if there was some
self-improvement program
797
00:54:53,631 --> 00:54:55,589
that actually worked,
798
00:54:55,673 --> 00:54:58,130
it wouldn't work on me.
799
00:54:59,798 --> 00:55:01,297
It's that simple.
800
00:55:01,381 --> 00:55:03,589
So, I'm, like,
protected from this shit.
801
00:55:03,673 --> 00:55:06,673
Because I'm fucking helpless.
802
00:55:13,255 --> 00:55:16,964
I would guess the central
thing that I took away from it
803
00:55:17,047 --> 00:55:20,297
was how extraordinarily
vulnerable we are,
804
00:55:20,381 --> 00:55:22,130
as people.
805
00:55:22,214 --> 00:55:26,964
And how even people who,
on the surface,
806
00:55:27,047 --> 00:55:30,214
are bright, are capable,
807
00:55:30,297 --> 00:55:34,964
talented, successful,
in many ways,
808
00:55:35,047 --> 00:55:39,130
have this intense vulnerability.
809
00:55:39,214 --> 00:55:42,214
And that vulnerability
810
00:55:42,297 --> 00:55:45,756
is available for
someone to exploit.
811
00:55:47,339 --> 00:55:51,255
The idea that in 2017,
812
00:55:51,339 --> 00:55:54,673
when we think of
ourselves as living in
813
00:55:54,756 --> 00:55:58,923
an advanced,
culturally enlightened society,
814
00:55:59,005 --> 00:56:04,673
where there's hope for equality
between men and women,
815
00:56:04,756 --> 00:56:08,923
that this type of
unspeakable cruelty
816
00:56:09,005 --> 00:56:10,839
can persist.
817
00:56:10,923 --> 00:56:13,506
And that people can partake
818
00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:16,422
and be subjected to practices
819
00:56:16,506 --> 00:56:19,923
that could only be
described as barbaric.
820
00:56:20,005 --> 00:56:24,255
But,
from the standpoint of publication,
821
00:56:24,339 --> 00:56:28,464
it's important to have as
many people as possible
822
00:56:28,547 --> 00:56:30,756
speaking on the record.
823
00:56:30,839 --> 00:56:34,214
And throughout the
reporting of the story,
824
00:56:34,297 --> 00:56:38,130
the greatest fear that
everyone was expressing to me
825
00:56:38,214 --> 00:56:41,464
was the fear of
legal retaliation.
826
00:56:42,798 --> 00:56:45,172
And they had a
basis to believe that,
827
00:56:45,255 --> 00:56:49,297
because there was this other group
of women who had left the group,
828
00:56:49,381 --> 00:56:54,464
and in fact had been the
subject of numerous lawsuits.
829
00:56:54,547 --> 00:56:56,589
Barbara Bouchey: I was
the first significant person
830
00:56:56,673 --> 00:56:59,589
in the entire
organization to ever leave.
831
00:56:59,673 --> 00:57:02,881
Over the years,
I heard from members
832
00:57:02,964 --> 00:57:04,881
and ex-members and the media
833
00:57:04,964 --> 00:57:07,297
that people were terrified
834
00:57:07,381 --> 00:57:10,089
to be the next Barbara Bouchey.
835
00:57:10,172 --> 00:57:12,714
They needed to make
an example out of me,
836
00:57:12,798 --> 00:57:15,923
in order to instill
in the community:
837
00:57:16,005 --> 00:57:18,673
This can happen to you, too.
838
00:57:18,756 --> 00:57:22,255
Buckle your seat belt,
and get ready.
839
00:57:22,339 --> 00:57:25,297
'Cause they're comin' for you.
840
00:57:25,381 --> 00:57:28,339
("You Better Be Careful"
by The Golliwogs playing)
841
00:57:32,047 --> 00:57:34,964
♪ You better be careful, girl ♪
842
00:57:36,047 --> 00:57:38,172
♪ You're all alone ♪
843
00:57:39,631 --> 00:57:42,714
♪ You better be careful, girl ♪
844
00:57:43,839 --> 00:57:46,005
♪ You're on your own ♪
845
00:57:49,381 --> 00:57:52,381
♪ I see the tears begin ♪
846
00:57:53,130 --> 00:57:58,798
♪ There in your eyes ♪
847
00:57:58,881 --> 00:58:03,005
♪
848
00:58:43,172 --> 00:58:45,005
WOMAN: I'm front page
of The New York Times.
849
00:58:45,547 --> 00:58:47,798
Holy shit,
the whole world knows.
850
00:58:48,714 --> 00:58:50,255
MAN: (OVER PHONE)
851
00:58:50,589 --> 00:58:53,732
WOMAN: Every now and then I'm getting, "What
the fuck? How could you let that happen?"
852
00:58:53,756 --> 00:58:55,589
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYS) ♪
853
00:58:57,506 --> 00:59:00,297
WOMAN 2: (OVER PHONE)
854
00:59:01,756 --> 00:59:03,631
WOMAN: Now that I'm out
and I'm looking back,
855
00:59:03,714 --> 00:59:05,255
it was all for a man's pleasure.
856
00:59:05,339 --> 00:59:08,214
And these women feel it's
a beautiful, noble attempt
857
00:59:08,422 --> 00:59:10,839
to teach women strength
and empowerment
858
00:59:10,964 --> 00:59:12,798
and I am fucking that up
for them.
859
00:59:12,881 --> 00:59:16,047
WOMAN 3: I found out
the board was all the women
860
00:59:16,130 --> 00:59:17,839
Keith had been sleeping with.
861
00:59:20,172 --> 00:59:22,506
I held a forum
to confront Keith.
862
00:59:22,964 --> 00:59:24,339
KEITH RANIERE:
This is extortion.
863
00:59:24,422 --> 00:59:26,506
So, we are filing
criminal charges.
864
00:59:26,923 --> 00:59:29,047
WOMAN 3: They were
bombarding the court.
865
00:59:29,130 --> 00:59:30,464
WOMAN: It was like
a horror show.
866
00:59:31,089 --> 00:59:32,464
♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪
867
00:59:32,488 --> 00:59:35,488
Subtitles Diego Moraes(oakislandtk)
www.opensubtitles.org