1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,878 - MARK ROESSLER Elizabeth, this is Erika Cheung. 2 00:00:02,878 --> 00:00:03,962 It's her first day. 3 00:00:03,962 --> 00:00:05,964 - Welcome to Theranos. 4 00:00:05,964 --> 00:00:07,549 - Here, put it on the camera on your computer. 5 00:00:07,549 --> 00:00:08,634 - Why? 6 00:00:08,634 --> 00:00:10,010 - So they can't watch you. 7 00:00:10,010 --> 00:00:13,931 - If Ian had testified, it would have invalidated Theranos' patents. 8 00:00:13,931 --> 00:00:16,642 - For a story like this, I really need someone with firsthand knowledge. 9 00:00:16,642 --> 00:00:18,602 ERIKA CHEUNG: They must be running everything on the Siemens machines 10 00:00:18,602 --> 00:00:19,645 to get around the regulators. 11 00:00:19,645 --> 00:00:20,979 - Do you really think she'd let that happen? 12 00:00:20,979 --> 00:00:23,482 - Dude, she is the CEO. She knows what's going on. 13 00:00:23,482 --> 00:00:25,359 - Are you running the Edison proficiency tests 14 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:26,360 on Siemens machines? 15 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:28,654 - You have no idea what you're talking about. 16 00:00:28,654 --> 00:00:32,406 - You believe Theranos is lying to regulators? 17 00:00:32,406 --> 00:00:34,618 - Yeah, that's why we need you to start asking questions. 18 00:00:34,618 --> 00:00:36,203 - No, I won't. 19 00:00:36,203 --> 00:00:37,663 - I'm ready for your questions now. 20 00:00:37,663 --> 00:00:40,165 - How is Theranos defrauding Walgreens? 21 00:00:40,165 --> 00:00:42,209 [line ringing] JOHN CARREYROU: [on phone] Yeah, hello. 22 00:00:42,209 --> 00:00:43,836 TYLER SCHULTZ: Uh, John Carreyrou? 23 00:00:43,836 --> 00:00:45,420 This is Tyler Schultz. 24 00:00:48,924 --> 00:00:51,134 BILL CLINTON: You founded this company 12 years ago, right? 25 00:00:52,261 --> 00:00:53,971 Tell them how old you were. 26 00:00:53,971 --> 00:00:55,639 - ELIZABETH HOLMES: I was 19. [audience applauds] 27 00:00:57,516 --> 00:00:58,600 - So-- 28 00:01:02,729 --> 00:01:04,773 Don't worry about the future, we're in good hands. 29 00:01:04,773 --> 00:01:06,149 ♪ David Bowie's Heroes playing ♪ 30 00:01:06,149 --> 00:01:09,111 ♪ 31 00:01:09,111 --> 00:01:11,947 ♪ 32 00:01:20,414 --> 00:01:21,456 ♪ I ♪ 33 00:01:23,834 --> 00:01:25,919 ♪ I will be king ♪ 34 00:01:28,797 --> 00:01:30,132 ♪ And you ♪ 35 00:01:32,509 --> 00:01:34,553 ♪ You will be queen ♪ 36 00:01:37,639 --> 00:01:39,141 ♪ Though nothing ♪ 37 00:01:39,141 --> 00:01:40,475 [photographers clamoring] 38 00:01:40,475 --> 00:01:42,644 ♪ Will drive them away ♪ 39 00:01:42,644 --> 00:01:44,229 [panting] 40 00:01:45,898 --> 00:01:47,482 ♪ We can beat them ♪ 41 00:01:49,651 --> 00:01:51,361 ♪ Just for one day ♪ 42 00:01:53,822 --> 00:01:55,824 ♪ We can be heroes ♪ 43 00:01:57,951 --> 00:02:00,120 ♪ Forever and ever ♪ 44 00:02:01,705 --> 00:02:02,998 ♪ What d'you say? ♪ 45 00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:09,171 [inaudible] 46 00:02:09,171 --> 00:02:14,843 - I look back on this brilliant young woman's, uh, vision, 47 00:02:14,843 --> 00:02:18,597 and I think to myself, how in God's name at 19 48 00:02:18,597 --> 00:02:22,643 was she able to convince some of the leading professors in America, 49 00:02:22,643 --> 00:02:26,980 uh, let alone her parents, to give her all her tuition money 50 00:02:26,980 --> 00:02:28,857 to go and say, "I got an idea. 51 00:02:29,525 --> 00:02:30,901 I'm going to start a company." 52 00:02:30,901 --> 00:02:32,152 [whirring] 53 00:02:32,152 --> 00:02:33,820 [panting] 54 00:02:33,820 --> 00:02:35,239 ♪ I, I will be king ♪ 55 00:02:37,658 --> 00:02:39,034 ♪ And you ♪ 56 00:02:40,994 --> 00:02:43,038 ♪ You will be queen ♪ 57 00:02:46,208 --> 00:02:47,751 ♪ Though nothing ♪ 58 00:02:49,461 --> 00:02:51,839 ♪ Will drive them away ♪ 59 00:02:54,049 --> 00:02:56,385 ♪ We can be heroes ♪ 60 00:02:58,220 --> 00:02:59,680 ♪ Just for one day ♪ 61 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,974 - So the Theranos report for the patient came back 62 00:03:01,974 --> 00:03:04,142 showing an abnormally high TSH value. 63 00:03:05,143 --> 00:03:07,312 - But the patient was already taking thyroid medication 64 00:03:07,312 --> 00:03:09,356 to lower that value? - Precisely. 65 00:03:09,356 --> 00:03:12,860 And the Theranos results indicated the medication wasn't working. 66 00:03:13,277 --> 00:03:14,361 - Was Theranos correct? 67 00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:17,155 - This patient was pregnant, okay. 68 00:03:17,614 --> 00:03:20,868 Increasing her dosage would have made her thyroid hormone levels so high, 69 00:03:20,868 --> 00:03:22,828 it would have put her pregnancy at risk. 70 00:03:24,580 --> 00:03:26,164 - Would you go on the record with this? 71 00:03:27,457 --> 00:03:28,834 - Abso-fucking-lutely. 72 00:03:30,669 --> 00:03:33,589 - I tracked down a patient who spent Thanksgiving in the ER 73 00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:36,133 because a Theranos test told her incorrectly 74 00:03:36,133 --> 00:03:37,676 she was having a stroke. - Mm. 75 00:03:37,676 --> 00:03:39,428 - Thousands of dollars in medical bills. 76 00:03:39,428 --> 00:03:41,305 I spoke with a cancer survivor, 77 00:03:41,305 --> 00:03:43,557 took a Theranos test, thought her cancer had come back. 78 00:03:43,557 --> 00:03:44,600 - Jesus. 79 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,352 - I have three doctors on the record. 80 00:03:47,352 --> 00:03:48,854 I have the Mark Roessler emails. 81 00:03:48,854 --> 00:03:50,063 - He sent you those? 82 00:03:50,063 --> 00:03:51,773 - No, not yet, but he should shortly. 83 00:03:51,773 --> 00:03:53,233 From what he describes, they're pretty damning. 84 00:03:53,233 --> 00:03:55,485 I've got Gardner and Gibbons on the record 85 00:03:55,485 --> 00:03:57,613 and Tyler Schultz on background. 86 00:03:57,613 --> 00:03:59,781 - Wait, wait, uh, back up. Tyler who? 87 00:03:59,781 --> 00:04:01,533 - This kid worked in the labs with Erika Cheung. 88 00:04:01,533 --> 00:04:03,577 He's George Schultz's grandson. 89 00:04:03,577 --> 00:04:04,620 - Huh. 90 00:04:05,162 --> 00:04:06,997 Does Schultz know his grandson is talking to us? 91 00:04:06,997 --> 00:04:09,208 - Oh no. And I have to make sure he doesn't. 92 00:04:09,208 --> 00:04:10,626 - Yeah, no shit. 93 00:04:11,668 --> 00:04:13,462 - It smells really good. - Mm-hmm. 94 00:04:13,462 --> 00:04:15,130 - Can I have the crackers? - Nope. 95 00:04:15,130 --> 00:04:17,925 So we ought to be thankful that Elizabeth Holmes wasn't running 96 00:04:17,925 --> 00:04:19,009 the USSR in the '80s. 97 00:04:19,009 --> 00:04:20,093 - Yeah. 98 00:04:20,093 --> 00:04:22,012 - Okay, so you do know what I'm going to ask-- 99 00:04:22,012 --> 00:04:23,388 - She's not going to talk to me, Judith. 100 00:04:23,388 --> 00:04:25,933 I'm the only reporter in America she will not give an interview to. 101 00:04:25,933 --> 00:04:27,684 - Doesn't matter. We have to be able to say 102 00:04:27,684 --> 00:04:30,354 we made every effort to allow Theranos to respond. 103 00:04:30,354 --> 00:04:31,939 - I sent them a list of questions. 104 00:04:31,939 --> 00:04:34,399 - Okay. - I am a little bit worried 105 00:04:34,399 --> 00:04:36,109 they're going to come after my sources. 106 00:04:36,109 --> 00:04:37,986 They've got David Boies representing them. 107 00:04:37,986 --> 00:04:39,321 - Yeah, fuck that. 108 00:04:39,321 --> 00:04:42,616 Whatever they throw at us, we can handle it. 109 00:04:43,492 --> 00:04:47,204 But maybe also call Mark Roessler and have him hurry up with those e-mails. 110 00:04:54,461 --> 00:04:56,463 ♪ tense music playing ♪ 111 00:04:58,048 --> 00:05:00,467 [devices whirring] 112 00:05:00,467 --> 00:05:01,635 [computer chimes] 113 00:05:01,635 --> 00:05:04,888 ♪ 114 00:05:20,362 --> 00:05:23,824 [indiscernible chatter] 115 00:05:24,533 --> 00:05:27,953 ♪ 116 00:05:27,953 --> 00:05:30,205 ♪ 117 00:05:37,629 --> 00:05:40,048 ♪ 118 00:05:40,674 --> 00:05:44,720 [beeping] 119 00:05:49,349 --> 00:05:51,935 LINDA TANNER: Wall Street Journal is doing an article about Theranos, 120 00:05:51,935 --> 00:05:53,270 and it is, um-- 121 00:05:54,146 --> 00:05:56,064 I don't think it's going to be positive. 122 00:05:56,064 --> 00:05:59,067 Uh, here are some questions they sent over 123 00:05:59,067 --> 00:06:02,029 that they would like you to, uh, 124 00:06:02,029 --> 00:06:05,782 to an-- to answer as soon as you possibly can-- 125 00:06:05,782 --> 00:06:07,868 - Yo, I've been trying to get ahold of you. 126 00:06:08,368 --> 00:06:10,746 Mark just downloaded, like, hundreds of work e-mails 127 00:06:10,746 --> 00:06:13,123 to his personal drive, and now he's headed out of the building. 128 00:06:13,123 --> 00:06:15,000 - Mark? - Yeah. 129 00:06:18,253 --> 00:06:19,505 - Where is Mark? 130 00:06:20,130 --> 00:06:21,298 Mark! 131 00:06:21,298 --> 00:06:22,257 - What's he going to do to him? 132 00:06:22,257 --> 00:06:23,467 Sunny! 133 00:06:23,467 --> 00:06:24,718 SUNNY BALWANI: Mark! 134 00:06:25,427 --> 00:06:28,472 ♪ 135 00:06:28,472 --> 00:06:31,725 ♪ 136 00:06:33,060 --> 00:06:35,562 Mark, I will sue your ass! 137 00:06:35,562 --> 00:06:39,149 Delete those emails! We have an NDA, Mark. 138 00:06:39,149 --> 00:06:41,109 These questions are ridiculous. - And sloppy. 139 00:06:41,109 --> 00:06:42,819 - Yeah, he's not a good writer. 140 00:06:42,819 --> 00:06:44,863 - I, I tried reading his Medicare thing the other night. 141 00:06:44,863 --> 00:06:46,073 It, like, sucked. 142 00:06:46,073 --> 00:06:48,242 - I mean, I mean, he should be more careful. 143 00:06:48,242 --> 00:06:50,619 These questions make it obvious who his sources are. 144 00:06:52,829 --> 00:06:54,039 - You know who his sources are? 145 00:06:54,039 --> 00:06:55,791 - Yes, of course. - We believe we do. 146 00:06:55,791 --> 00:06:57,626 - We've narrowed it down. Thank you, Peter. 147 00:06:57,626 --> 00:06:58,836 - He's spoken to Rochelle Gibbons. 148 00:06:58,836 --> 00:07:00,587 - Who we should sue for defamation. 149 00:07:00,587 --> 00:07:03,090 SUNNY: And some doctors and patients in Arizona, 150 00:07:03,090 --> 00:07:04,925 which violates doctor-patient confidentiality. 151 00:07:04,925 --> 00:07:08,053 - And those questions regarding the particulars of the Normandy lab, 152 00:07:08,053 --> 00:07:09,680 those are, that's coming from Erika. 153 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,516 - Yeah. Erika Cheung, Tyler Schultz, Mark Roessler. 154 00:07:12,516 --> 00:07:14,309 SUNNY: Who all signed NDAs. 155 00:07:14,309 --> 00:07:16,812 - That's right. And who are young and disgruntled. 156 00:07:16,812 --> 00:07:18,981 - Very fucking disgruntled. - All three left after disagreements. 157 00:07:18,981 --> 00:07:21,275 - But they expect us to answer these questions, 158 00:07:21,275 --> 00:07:22,734 like, I, I-- 159 00:07:23,318 --> 00:07:26,655 This, this whole thing that we have to respond to liars? 160 00:07:27,114 --> 00:07:28,073 That's ridiculous. 161 00:07:29,658 --> 00:07:31,326 And all these legal elements, 162 00:07:31,326 --> 00:07:33,328 we have to get, we have to get ahead of all of them now. 163 00:07:33,328 --> 00:07:35,122 SUNNY: Extremely serious legal implications. 164 00:07:35,122 --> 00:07:37,541 Like, Tyler basically violated and shared our trade secrets. 165 00:07:37,541 --> 00:07:38,542 - Literally. 166 00:07:38,542 --> 00:07:40,419 SUNNY: Violating trade secrets is not okay. 167 00:07:40,419 --> 00:07:41,461 - We want to sue everyone. 168 00:07:42,713 --> 00:07:43,797 - Everyone? 169 00:07:43,797 --> 00:07:45,549 - We want to nail this motherfucker. - Yeah. 170 00:07:51,638 --> 00:07:52,806 - Well... 171 00:07:53,974 --> 00:07:56,643 I respect the integrity of journalism. 172 00:07:57,269 --> 00:07:58,854 I represent the New York Times. 173 00:07:59,563 --> 00:08:02,691 But there are tools and tactics available 174 00:08:02,691 --> 00:08:06,945 that we can use to try and suppress negative stories. 175 00:08:06,945 --> 00:08:09,239 And we can remind them of the consequences 176 00:08:09,239 --> 00:08:11,158 of breaking their NDAs. 177 00:08:11,158 --> 00:08:12,284 Linda will help me with that. 178 00:08:13,118 --> 00:08:15,787 And then, of course, we can question their credibility. 179 00:08:16,330 --> 00:08:18,582 If these are the kind of people that break their NDAs, 180 00:08:18,582 --> 00:08:20,250 how can we trust anything they say? 181 00:08:20,709 --> 00:08:22,294 - Good. Yeah. Good. 182 00:08:22,294 --> 00:08:25,797 ♪ 183 00:08:25,797 --> 00:08:28,133 ♪ 184 00:08:28,133 --> 00:08:31,428 ♪ 185 00:08:34,056 --> 00:08:35,182 - Hey, Tiger. 186 00:08:37,726 --> 00:08:38,977 Are you home? 187 00:08:39,937 --> 00:08:41,063 I'm back. 188 00:08:41,688 --> 00:08:43,190 I got to tell you something. 189 00:08:44,233 --> 00:08:45,359 SUNNY: Come find me. 190 00:08:49,488 --> 00:08:52,324 - This house is too big. I can't. 191 00:08:56,036 --> 00:08:56,995 - Here. 192 00:08:58,664 --> 00:09:02,042 - I met Rupert Murdoch tonight at the thing. 193 00:09:09,591 --> 00:09:10,884 [Elizabeth screams] [Sunny gasps] 194 00:09:10,884 --> 00:09:12,302 [both laugh] 195 00:09:15,180 --> 00:09:16,265 ELIZABETH: I'm sorry. 196 00:09:18,141 --> 00:09:19,226 You started it. 197 00:09:24,064 --> 00:09:26,942 - Rupert Murdoch invited me to his ranch tonight. 198 00:09:30,487 --> 00:09:32,614 God, I am so happy. 199 00:09:35,492 --> 00:09:38,287 - I'm going to Arizona tomorrow to talk to the doctors. 200 00:09:38,287 --> 00:09:39,454 I don't care 201 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,623 that Boies has a strategy. 202 00:09:43,625 --> 00:09:45,419 I want to talk to them face-to-face. 203 00:09:47,129 --> 00:09:50,132 End this smear campaign, take out his sources. 204 00:09:51,133 --> 00:09:52,926 Cut this off at the legs one by one. 205 00:09:53,343 --> 00:09:55,470 We can turn this around. 206 00:10:00,893 --> 00:10:02,436 - I'm not here to scare you. 207 00:10:04,855 --> 00:10:06,231 I'm simply asking you, 208 00:10:07,649 --> 00:10:10,402 does your practice rely on online reviews? 209 00:10:14,239 --> 00:10:16,408 It would hurt your practice if your patients knew 210 00:10:16,408 --> 00:10:19,536 you shared their confidential health information 211 00:10:20,037 --> 00:10:21,246 with a reporter. 212 00:10:22,164 --> 00:10:23,248 Right? 213 00:10:26,043 --> 00:10:27,628 But if you sign that document, 214 00:10:29,713 --> 00:10:31,048 all this goes away. 215 00:10:33,467 --> 00:10:37,221 - I've always believed that we are here on this Earth 216 00:10:37,804 --> 00:10:40,140 to make a difference in the world. 217 00:10:41,141 --> 00:10:44,853 So when I found what I felt like I was born to do, 218 00:10:45,437 --> 00:10:48,190 which is help and try to contribute 219 00:10:48,190 --> 00:10:51,235 to, to solving a problem-- 220 00:10:51,235 --> 00:10:53,070 - Hello. MARK: I'm being followed, John. 221 00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:55,531 Like, everywhere I go, there's someone watching me. 222 00:10:55,531 --> 00:10:57,449 - Who's watching you? - I, I don't know, 223 00:10:57,449 --> 00:10:58,659 but I'm not making it up. 224 00:10:58,659 --> 00:11:01,328 It's not safe in my house. I'm, I'm in the car. 225 00:11:01,328 --> 00:11:03,163 I'm using the Wi-Fi in my car. 226 00:11:03,163 --> 00:11:05,832 - I believe that on a human level, 227 00:11:05,832 --> 00:11:08,168 there's not much else that matters. 228 00:11:08,669 --> 00:11:10,879 CHARLIE ROSE: Access to more data will save more lives. 229 00:11:11,338 --> 00:11:15,968 ELIZABETH: Yeah, when, you know, in saving lives... 230 00:11:21,056 --> 00:11:23,350 when you're talking about someone you love, 231 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:25,018 you'd do anything, right? 232 00:11:26,061 --> 00:11:27,604 MARK: I get these phone calls... - Mark. Mark. 233 00:11:27,604 --> 00:11:30,691 from, from Sunny and their goddamn lawyers, 234 00:11:30,691 --> 00:11:31,608 they're threatening me-- 235 00:11:31,608 --> 00:11:33,151 - I told you they were going to come after you. 236 00:11:33,151 --> 00:11:34,528 MARK: ...these massive lawsuits. 237 00:11:34,528 --> 00:11:37,781 ♪ tense music ♪ 238 00:11:37,781 --> 00:11:40,784 ♪ 239 00:11:40,784 --> 00:11:45,289 ♪ 240 00:11:46,623 --> 00:11:49,543 [dog barking in distance] 241 00:11:50,419 --> 00:11:54,923 CHARLIE: Has anybody challenged the science of what you do? 242 00:11:55,424 --> 00:11:58,010 MARK: I hired a lawyer, a very good lawyer. 243 00:11:58,552 --> 00:12:02,139 But he found out they had David Boies on, on their side, 244 00:12:02,139 --> 00:12:04,975 and he told me to delete the emails immediately. 245 00:12:04,975 --> 00:12:06,310 - Don't delete the emails, Mark. 246 00:12:06,310 --> 00:12:07,895 What you're doing is too important. 247 00:12:07,895 --> 00:12:11,064 - I don't know. I, I, I don't know if I can do this. 248 00:12:11,064 --> 00:12:13,525 CHARLIE: Are there people who raise questions and say, 249 00:12:14,443 --> 00:12:16,820 you know, why doesn't she show us all this? 250 00:12:16,820 --> 00:12:20,073 Because we'd feel more comfortable with the results. 251 00:12:20,073 --> 00:12:22,284 ELIZABETH: The major lab companies, yeah. 252 00:12:22,284 --> 00:12:25,913 CHARLIE: Help me understand what it is they're asking 253 00:12:25,913 --> 00:12:28,207 and what your answer is to them. 254 00:12:30,417 --> 00:12:32,961 - I know it's scary right now-- - They can bankrupt me. 255 00:12:32,961 --> 00:12:35,631 - But they wouldn't make it scary if they weren't scared. 256 00:12:35,631 --> 00:12:37,966 And they're scared because they know 257 00:12:37,966 --> 00:12:40,052 that they're wrong and you're right. 258 00:12:40,052 --> 00:12:42,304 What you're doing is going to save lives. 259 00:12:42,304 --> 00:12:43,472 - Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 260 00:12:43,472 --> 00:12:46,225 - Mark, you did this because you're going to save people. 261 00:12:46,225 --> 00:12:47,392 MARK: Uh-huh. Yeah. 262 00:12:47,392 --> 00:12:49,186 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're right. 263 00:12:50,312 --> 00:12:51,772 JOHN: So you'll send me those emails? 264 00:12:52,356 --> 00:12:53,440 - Yeah, yeah. 265 00:12:57,653 --> 00:12:58,612 - Mark? 266 00:13:02,074 --> 00:13:03,075 Mark? 267 00:13:09,831 --> 00:13:10,791 Mark. 268 00:13:11,875 --> 00:13:13,377 MARK: Sorry, John, I'm sorry. 269 00:13:13,377 --> 00:13:15,963 [line disconnects] 270 00:13:18,006 --> 00:13:19,341 JOHN: The Roessler emails are gone. 271 00:13:19,341 --> 00:13:21,176 Most of the Arizona doctors are gone. 272 00:13:21,176 --> 00:13:23,846 If they manage to sway Tyler, I, I do not have a story. 273 00:13:23,846 --> 00:13:26,849 - Well, then get Tyler on the phone. 274 00:13:26,849 --> 00:13:29,518 - I've tried to get Tyler on the phone. He doesn't pick up. 275 00:13:29,518 --> 00:13:32,479 - Well, try again. - I have tried trying again. 276 00:13:32,479 --> 00:13:35,357 - Well, have you tried texting, emailing... 277 00:13:35,357 --> 00:13:36,942 - I have tried everything. - ...sending him flowers? 278 00:13:36,942 --> 00:13:38,527 Well, then you're just going to have to wait. 279 00:13:38,527 --> 00:13:40,988 - Wait. Great. 280 00:13:40,988 --> 00:13:42,865 I will just wait. 281 00:13:42,865 --> 00:13:45,826 That is really helpful, Judith. Thank you. 282 00:13:47,411 --> 00:13:48,412 [sighs] 283 00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:51,665 - I'm sorry. I'm sorry. JUDITH: It's okay. 284 00:13:53,125 --> 00:13:55,544 - This is really taking a toll on me. - I can see that. 285 00:13:59,423 --> 00:14:01,216 You just can't lose Tyler. 286 00:14:07,014 --> 00:14:11,018 ♪ 287 00:14:12,394 --> 00:14:14,354 [cell phone buzzing] 288 00:14:20,110 --> 00:14:21,445 - Grandpa, what's up? 289 00:14:22,946 --> 00:14:25,866 I'm not sure why Elizabeth thinks that 290 00:14:26,867 --> 00:14:28,994 I was the one who spoke to some, 291 00:14:30,621 --> 00:14:33,999 some reporter. - Did you... Tyler? 292 00:14:34,833 --> 00:14:36,293 Because if you did, 293 00:14:36,293 --> 00:14:37,920 you're in danger of being sued. 294 00:14:39,546 --> 00:14:40,964 Just tell me. 295 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,050 We're family. 296 00:14:45,010 --> 00:14:46,678 Did you speak to the reporter? 297 00:14:48,472 --> 00:14:49,473 - No. 298 00:14:50,307 --> 00:14:52,226 No. - Oh, that's good. 299 00:14:53,060 --> 00:14:54,478 GEORGE SCHULTZ: So then, 300 00:14:56,063 --> 00:14:57,731 all you have to do 301 00:14:58,232 --> 00:15:00,692 is sign a new non-disclosure agreement. 302 00:15:01,777 --> 00:15:02,736 - What? 303 00:15:03,487 --> 00:15:04,613 - Linda! 304 00:15:04,613 --> 00:15:06,406 - Is someone here? - George. 305 00:15:06,406 --> 00:15:07,449 Is there someone upstairs? 306 00:15:07,449 --> 00:15:10,744 - A lawyer from Theranos brought the document for you to sign. 307 00:15:10,744 --> 00:15:11,787 - You told me to come over and talk. 308 00:15:11,787 --> 00:15:12,955 You didn't tell me I have to sign anything. 309 00:15:12,955 --> 00:15:13,664 - Linda. 310 00:15:16,333 --> 00:15:17,417 Linda! 311 00:15:18,043 --> 00:15:18,877 - Okay. 312 00:15:20,003 --> 00:15:21,171 Okay. 313 00:15:21,171 --> 00:15:23,966 - This matter is more urgent than you realize. 314 00:15:27,511 --> 00:15:29,555 - Hi. Hi, Tyler. 315 00:15:29,555 --> 00:15:31,890 I have some documents you're going to need to sign. 316 00:15:31,890 --> 00:15:34,184 Okay, here's the restraining order. 317 00:15:34,184 --> 00:15:35,477 BOTH: A restraining order? 318 00:15:35,477 --> 00:15:36,979 - Are you fucking serious? 319 00:15:36,979 --> 00:15:38,313 - No, that's wrong. 320 00:15:38,313 --> 00:15:41,400 Elizabeth said he was going to sign a nondisclosure agreement. 321 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,902 - This is a letter from Theranos stating that they believe 322 00:15:43,902 --> 00:15:46,780 that you have violated your confidentiality obligations. 323 00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:48,448 - This is not what Elizabeth said was going-- 324 00:15:48,448 --> 00:15:50,284 - That they're preparing to file a lawsuit against you. 325 00:15:50,284 --> 00:15:52,619 - Is this coming from Sunny? - I didn't speak to the reporter. 326 00:15:52,619 --> 00:15:54,580 - Would you be willing to sign an affidavit to that effect? 327 00:15:54,580 --> 00:15:57,124 Would you be willing to name the people who did in fact speak 328 00:15:57,124 --> 00:15:58,292 to The Wall Street Journal? 329 00:15:58,292 --> 00:15:59,835 - My grandson is not a rat. 330 00:15:59,835 --> 00:16:01,837 - George, why don't you let me take it from here? 331 00:16:01,837 --> 00:16:05,757 - Like hell I will. You, into the study now. 332 00:16:05,757 --> 00:16:07,176 Tyler, you stay here. 333 00:16:07,176 --> 00:16:09,720 We're going to settle this with decorum. 334 00:16:10,429 --> 00:16:11,430 Sit down. 335 00:16:14,183 --> 00:16:16,018 You won't be talking to Tyler directly. 336 00:16:16,977 --> 00:16:18,979 You'll be using me as an intermediary. 337 00:16:20,731 --> 00:16:22,191 - Is this really necessary? 338 00:16:22,191 --> 00:16:24,484 - It was good enough for Gorbachev, 339 00:16:24,484 --> 00:16:26,236 and it will be good enough for you. 340 00:16:26,236 --> 00:16:28,238 ♪ tense music ♪ 341 00:16:28,238 --> 00:16:30,199 ♪ 342 00:16:34,494 --> 00:16:36,705 How are you doing? Are you hungry? 343 00:16:37,206 --> 00:16:39,625 Charlotte, can we have some crackers in here? 344 00:16:40,959 --> 00:16:42,544 - Can you just tell her not to sue me? 345 00:16:43,295 --> 00:16:45,047 - We're taking the lawsuit off the table. 346 00:16:45,047 --> 00:16:46,215 - We can't do that. 347 00:16:46,215 --> 00:16:47,633 - Then he won't be signing. 348 00:16:47,633 --> 00:16:48,967 - That's a red line? 349 00:16:53,514 --> 00:16:57,392 - Good news, they're agreeing not to sue you for two years. 350 00:16:57,392 --> 00:16:59,102 - So they're going to sue me in two years? 351 00:16:59,102 --> 00:17:02,022 - Jesus Christ, George, this is your grandson. 352 00:17:07,736 --> 00:17:10,656 LINDA: Fine, we will agree not to sue. 353 00:17:10,656 --> 00:17:12,032 - And you'll put that in writing. 354 00:17:12,032 --> 00:17:13,659 - Yes, we'll draft it up right now. 355 00:17:13,659 --> 00:17:15,953 But if we do, he'll sign? 356 00:17:15,953 --> 00:17:19,164 - No, I, I won't sign it. 357 00:17:19,164 --> 00:17:21,750 - Those were your terms. - Well, my terms have changed. 358 00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:22,835 - Why? 359 00:17:23,961 --> 00:17:25,629 Because you did speak to a reporter. 360 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:28,090 Because if you did 361 00:17:28,090 --> 00:17:30,968 and you sign these documents, you'll be perjuring yourself. 362 00:17:30,968 --> 00:17:32,970 - Okay. - What are you doing here? 363 00:17:32,970 --> 00:17:37,140 - Tyler, I've modified the documents to meet your demands. 364 00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:38,308 Now sign. 365 00:17:39,601 --> 00:17:42,729 ♪ 366 00:17:44,898 --> 00:17:46,441 - George... 367 00:17:46,441 --> 00:17:48,777 why don't you fax the documents to your lawyer 368 00:17:48,777 --> 00:17:50,988 and see what he thinks Taylor should do? 369 00:17:58,412 --> 00:18:02,165 [beeping] 370 00:18:17,347 --> 00:18:19,975 Tyler, your mom's on the phone. 371 00:18:21,768 --> 00:18:23,604 If you'd like, you can take it upstairs. 372 00:18:29,818 --> 00:18:31,904 - Why did my mom call here? Is everything okay? 373 00:18:36,366 --> 00:18:39,578 - Tyler, I know you spoke with the reporter. 374 00:18:41,705 --> 00:18:42,664 - No, I-- 375 00:18:43,498 --> 00:18:44,791 [stammers] I didn't. 376 00:18:46,043 --> 00:18:49,004 I didn't, I-- - This is our attorney on the phone. 377 00:18:52,341 --> 00:18:54,510 Tell him your situation. 378 00:18:54,510 --> 00:18:55,844 He can help you. 379 00:18:56,512 --> 00:18:57,596 - I'm-- 380 00:19:00,766 --> 00:19:04,311 ♪ serene music playing ♪ 381 00:19:04,311 --> 00:19:07,314 ♪ 382 00:19:17,783 --> 00:19:19,660 GEORGE: My lawyer says he shouldn't sign. 383 00:19:19,660 --> 00:19:20,869 LINDA: Why? 384 00:19:21,870 --> 00:19:24,581 I mean, if he's telling the truth, then he has no reason-- 385 00:19:24,581 --> 00:19:26,333 - That was his recommendation. 386 00:19:27,125 --> 00:19:28,669 I'm going to have to ask you to leave. 387 00:19:29,336 --> 00:19:30,546 - Tyler... 388 00:19:31,588 --> 00:19:33,632 you're about to be buried in legal fees. 389 00:19:33,632 --> 00:19:38,178 Your parents are about to be buried in legal fees. 390 00:19:38,178 --> 00:19:39,721 - That's my son you're talking about. 391 00:19:39,721 --> 00:19:42,099 - You cannot afford 392 00:19:42,099 --> 00:19:44,017 what is about to come at you. 393 00:19:45,269 --> 00:19:46,937 Is it worth it? - Get out. 394 00:19:48,272 --> 00:19:49,356 - You'll be hearing from me. 395 00:20:01,451 --> 00:20:02,327 [sighs] 396 00:20:02,828 --> 00:20:03,620 [door opens] 397 00:20:06,498 --> 00:20:07,457 [door closes] 398 00:20:08,125 --> 00:20:09,209 - Do you-- 399 00:20:11,420 --> 00:20:13,463 Do you wish Elizabeth was related to you 400 00:20:14,715 --> 00:20:16,008 instead of me? 401 00:20:16,008 --> 00:20:18,510 - Stop feeling sorry for yourself. 402 00:20:18,510 --> 00:20:20,971 - She lied to you about the documents she wanted me to sign. 403 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,140 She lies. 404 00:20:23,140 --> 00:20:24,558 That's who she is. 405 00:20:24,558 --> 00:20:26,894 Why can't you just admit that you were wrong about her? 406 00:20:27,394 --> 00:20:30,397 Because you're this great man and you never make mistakes? 407 00:20:30,397 --> 00:20:31,565 You're never wrong? 408 00:20:35,068 --> 00:20:36,987 - Did you speak to the reporter? 409 00:20:44,328 --> 00:20:45,454 - No. 410 00:20:46,872 --> 00:20:49,374 ♪ 411 00:20:50,542 --> 00:20:52,294 - Then I'm choosing to believe you. 412 00:20:53,962 --> 00:20:57,966 ♪ 413 00:20:59,968 --> 00:21:03,263 - We have a very big announcement to tell y'all. 414 00:21:03,263 --> 00:21:05,307 Are you excited? - Walgreens isn't happy. 415 00:21:05,307 --> 00:21:07,017 Normandy is a disaster zone. 416 00:21:07,017 --> 00:21:09,978 We need new lab directors and lab managers. 417 00:21:09,978 --> 00:21:12,981 - Because you replaced Mark with a dermatologist. 418 00:21:13,815 --> 00:21:15,734 - Because I don't want someone who's going to create problems. 419 00:21:15,734 --> 00:21:18,820 - But we can't keep fighting fires by creating fires. 420 00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:21,949 We have to focus on the root cause of the problem. 421 00:21:21,949 --> 00:21:23,742 What is the root cause? 422 00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:26,161 CHRISTIAN HOLMES: And I think she deserves-- 423 00:21:26,161 --> 00:21:27,871 - What is the root cause? 424 00:21:28,455 --> 00:21:30,249 CHRISTIAN: So without further ado, 425 00:21:30,249 --> 00:21:32,835 I present to you our fearless leader, 426 00:21:32,835 --> 00:21:34,586 Elizabeth Holmes. 427 00:21:34,586 --> 00:21:35,796 [cheering and applause] 428 00:21:35,796 --> 00:21:38,465 ♪ Too legit, too legit to quit ♪ 429 00:21:39,383 --> 00:21:42,219 ♪ Too legit, too legit to quit ♪ 430 00:21:43,303 --> 00:21:46,431 ♪ Too legit, too legit to quit ♪ 431 00:21:48,517 --> 00:21:52,020 - We've got herpes! 432 00:21:52,020 --> 00:21:54,690 ♪ 433 00:21:54,690 --> 00:21:58,360 [chanting]: Theranos! Theranos! 434 00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,529 Theranos! 435 00:22:00,946 --> 00:22:02,739 Theranos! 436 00:22:02,739 --> 00:22:04,408 Theranos! 437 00:22:04,408 --> 00:22:05,868 Theranos! 438 00:22:06,493 --> 00:22:08,078 Theranos! 439 00:22:08,412 --> 00:22:09,955 Theranos! 440 00:22:10,205 --> 00:22:11,707 Theranos! 441 00:22:12,249 --> 00:22:13,375 Theranos! 442 00:22:14,293 --> 00:22:16,503 [cheering, whooping] 443 00:22:18,463 --> 00:22:21,091 - Congratulations on the FDA approval. 444 00:22:21,091 --> 00:22:22,885 ELIZABETH: Moving in the right direction. 445 00:22:22,885 --> 00:22:24,803 Where are we with the article? 446 00:22:25,429 --> 00:22:27,097 - Tyler didn't sign. 447 00:22:27,097 --> 00:22:28,891 - It doesn't matter because he's a kid. 448 00:22:29,641 --> 00:22:32,227 And they've lost more than half of their sources. 449 00:22:32,936 --> 00:22:33,937 DAVID BOIES: Right. 450 00:22:34,313 --> 00:22:38,233 But we need answers to those questions that the journalist sent. 451 00:22:38,233 --> 00:22:41,069 We need to categorically deny the allegations. 452 00:22:42,404 --> 00:22:44,072 [wrestler shouting] 453 00:22:44,072 --> 00:22:45,908 [whistle blows] [people cheering] 454 00:22:48,702 --> 00:22:50,204 - I won! 455 00:22:51,705 --> 00:22:53,332 - Oh, I had an idea last night. 456 00:23:02,341 --> 00:23:03,717 - What the fuck? 457 00:23:04,593 --> 00:23:08,847 [cell phone buzzing] 458 00:23:13,227 --> 00:23:15,312 - Yeah, I know, Richard. I'm looking at it. 459 00:23:15,312 --> 00:23:16,855 RICHARD FUISZ: In your own paper! 460 00:23:16,855 --> 00:23:20,442 She, she wrote and published a brag about herpes 461 00:23:20,442 --> 00:23:21,777 in your own paper? 462 00:23:21,777 --> 00:23:23,779 She's spitting in your face. 463 00:23:23,779 --> 00:23:25,489 How could this happen? 464 00:23:25,489 --> 00:23:26,865 - Well, it's an op-ed, Richard. 465 00:23:26,865 --> 00:23:28,784 Opinion and news are totally separate. 466 00:23:28,784 --> 00:23:29,785 They don't know what we're working on. 467 00:23:29,785 --> 00:23:31,245 - I'll tell you how it happened. 468 00:23:31,745 --> 00:23:34,373 Guess who's the new investor in Theranos? 469 00:23:34,373 --> 00:23:36,041 Rupert Murdoch! 470 00:23:36,041 --> 00:23:38,418 Rupert fucking Murdoch. 471 00:23:38,418 --> 00:23:40,295 The man who owns your paper. 472 00:23:40,295 --> 00:23:42,464 I just found out this morning. 473 00:23:42,464 --> 00:23:44,091 - Um, I'm sorry. 474 00:23:44,091 --> 00:23:47,386 Where-- where did-- where is this information coming from? 475 00:23:47,386 --> 00:23:49,680 - It's coming from, you figure it out. 476 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,598 That's where it's coming from. 477 00:23:51,598 --> 00:23:53,851 $125 million, 478 00:23:53,851 --> 00:23:56,395 the most he's ever invested in a tech company. 479 00:23:57,813 --> 00:23:59,648 - Are you sure about this? 480 00:23:59,648 --> 00:24:02,109 - Your story is dead. He's going to bury it. 481 00:24:02,109 --> 00:24:04,820 He's going to bury it to protect his investment. 482 00:24:04,820 --> 00:24:07,447 - That's not necessarily true. 483 00:24:07,447 --> 00:24:08,574 RICHARD: The op-ed! 484 00:24:09,116 --> 00:24:10,909 The op-ed! 485 00:24:10,909 --> 00:24:11,952 [beep] 486 00:24:20,419 --> 00:24:24,631 ♪ 487 00:24:31,221 --> 00:24:32,222 [taps] 488 00:24:33,473 --> 00:24:35,267 - The opinion page has nothing to do-- 489 00:24:35,267 --> 00:24:37,811 - Murdoch just invested $125 million. 490 00:24:39,771 --> 00:24:40,898 - In Theranos? 491 00:24:40,898 --> 00:24:42,399 - No, in railroads. 492 00:24:42,941 --> 00:24:43,984 - Wow. 493 00:24:44,693 --> 00:24:46,737 - Guess he should have called you first, huh? 494 00:24:46,737 --> 00:24:49,031 - Yeah. Uh, we gotta run the story now. 495 00:24:49,573 --> 00:24:50,908 - We can't run it now. - Why not? 496 00:24:50,908 --> 00:24:52,326 - Because it's not ready. 497 00:24:52,326 --> 00:24:55,037 You've lost half your sources, so we need more proof. 498 00:24:55,037 --> 00:24:57,372 We have to wait. - Judith, come-- 499 00:24:58,332 --> 00:24:59,499 Come on. 500 00:25:00,751 --> 00:25:03,587 Obama just named her global ambassador of something. 501 00:25:03,587 --> 00:25:05,881 The woman is worth four and a half billion dollars. 502 00:25:05,881 --> 00:25:07,966 They are fucking winning here. 503 00:25:07,966 --> 00:25:10,719 - John, in Sicily, every year-- 504 00:25:10,719 --> 00:25:12,012 - Why are we talking about Italy? 505 00:25:12,012 --> 00:25:13,722 - No, no. We're talking about Sicily. 506 00:25:13,722 --> 00:25:15,849 There's a practice called la mattanza. 507 00:25:16,308 --> 00:25:17,226 - Okay. 508 00:25:18,519 --> 00:25:21,980 - The fishermen, they wade into the Mediterranean Sea. 509 00:25:22,898 --> 00:25:24,149 The water is up to their waist. 510 00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:26,818 They've got their clubs and spears in hand. 511 00:25:27,736 --> 00:25:28,820 And they stand there. 512 00:25:30,072 --> 00:25:31,156 Very still. 513 00:25:31,782 --> 00:25:32,783 For hours. 514 00:25:34,368 --> 00:25:35,994 Till the fish start to gather around them. 515 00:25:37,246 --> 00:25:40,290 Because the men are so still 516 00:25:41,124 --> 00:25:42,876 and they've waited so long, 517 00:25:42,876 --> 00:25:44,503 the fish don't even realize they're there. 518 00:25:44,503 --> 00:25:46,588 They, they think they're part of the scenery. 519 00:25:47,548 --> 00:25:48,590 But then... 520 00:25:50,092 --> 00:25:51,802 once there are enough fish gathered, 521 00:25:52,761 --> 00:25:54,263 someone gives the signal. 522 00:25:54,263 --> 00:25:55,389 And then... 523 00:25:55,931 --> 00:25:57,015 bam! 524 00:25:57,891 --> 00:25:58,934 Bam, bam, bam! 525 00:25:58,934 --> 00:26:00,769 Tch tch tch tch tch. Tch tch tch tch. 526 00:26:00,769 --> 00:26:02,563 Bam! Bam! 527 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,567 So you see. 528 00:26:07,276 --> 00:26:08,318 - Very vivid imagery. 529 00:26:09,194 --> 00:26:10,195 - We wait. 530 00:26:12,531 --> 00:26:14,241 - Until Boies responds to my questions? 531 00:26:15,659 --> 00:26:17,244 - Until we know we've got them. 532 00:26:23,709 --> 00:26:25,169 - Yup. - Go on. 533 00:26:36,889 --> 00:26:37,806 [thud] 534 00:26:40,934 --> 00:26:42,978 [dog barking in distance] 535 00:26:44,521 --> 00:26:45,355 [sighs] 536 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,943 [footsteps] 537 00:26:51,695 --> 00:26:53,363 [panting] 538 00:26:53,363 --> 00:26:54,573 - Oh! - Oh my god! 539 00:26:54,573 --> 00:26:55,657 - I-- 540 00:26:55,657 --> 00:26:58,410 - I'm sorry, your roommate, she just let me in downstairs, and I-- 541 00:26:58,410 --> 00:27:00,537 - Wh-what are you, what are you doing here? 542 00:27:01,330 --> 00:27:03,707 - I, uh, brought a lamp. 543 00:27:05,626 --> 00:27:07,961 Yeah, you just, you weren't answering my calls, 544 00:27:07,961 --> 00:27:12,341 so I thought I would stop by and say hi and bring a lamp. 545 00:27:12,341 --> 00:27:15,260 Remember you told me you didn't have one for your room? 546 00:27:19,348 --> 00:27:20,849 How long have you had that knife? 547 00:27:20,849 --> 00:27:22,559 - I, I don't know, it helps the-- 548 00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:24,645 it helps me sleep. 549 00:27:27,314 --> 00:27:28,190 [sighs] 550 00:27:33,654 --> 00:27:36,990 When you were at Theranos, did you ever hear of Ian Gibbons? 551 00:27:39,576 --> 00:27:40,661 - Maybe. 552 00:27:43,664 --> 00:27:46,834 - Carreyrou told me that he was a chemist there. 553 00:27:50,045 --> 00:27:52,673 They were pressuring him so much that, um, 554 00:27:55,217 --> 00:27:56,426 he killed himself. 555 00:28:01,557 --> 00:28:03,433 I keep thinking about him. 556 00:28:07,479 --> 00:28:08,772 Yeah, it's, uh... 557 00:28:10,732 --> 00:28:11,900 It's bad right now. 558 00:28:14,403 --> 00:28:15,988 They're suing me. [inhales] 559 00:28:17,531 --> 00:28:19,283 My grandfather stopped talking to me. 560 00:28:19,283 --> 00:28:22,452 They're tracking everything I do. 561 00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:24,997 [sighs] 562 00:28:33,297 --> 00:28:35,257 - At least now you have an ugly lamp. 563 00:28:46,476 --> 00:28:49,438 [both laugh] 564 00:28:49,438 --> 00:28:50,397 [tires squealing] 565 00:28:51,106 --> 00:28:52,858 [dog barking] 566 00:29:03,368 --> 00:29:05,829 - David, what are you doing here? 567 00:29:05,829 --> 00:29:06,997 - I want to talk. 568 00:29:08,290 --> 00:29:10,792 - Were you in the neighborhood? - No. 569 00:29:12,753 --> 00:29:15,088 The article is not going away. 570 00:29:15,756 --> 00:29:19,760 It's not moving forward but it's not going away, 571 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,389 and I can't make it go away until I know what they have. 572 00:29:26,767 --> 00:29:31,104 This is the moment where you tell me everything 573 00:29:31,104 --> 00:29:32,731 that you've been hiding from me. 574 00:29:32,731 --> 00:29:37,986 ♪ 575 00:29:41,406 --> 00:29:44,576 ♪ 576 00:29:44,576 --> 00:29:47,120 ♪ 577 00:29:53,168 --> 00:29:55,045 - Oh, you need to be prepared. 578 00:29:55,045 --> 00:29:56,255 - I'm prepared. 579 00:29:57,130 --> 00:29:59,967 For, for what? - For Boies killing your story. 580 00:29:59,967 --> 00:30:01,635 - No. - He's the one that called the meeting. 581 00:30:01,635 --> 00:30:03,053 I'm sure he has evidence that refutes it. 582 00:30:03,053 --> 00:30:04,346 - Judith, the story is good. 583 00:30:04,346 --> 00:30:06,557 I still have Dr. Betz in Arizona. 584 00:30:06,557 --> 00:30:08,058 I've got the nurse, Carmen Washington. 585 00:30:08,058 --> 00:30:10,102 I have that patient. I have Erika Cheung, 586 00:30:10,102 --> 00:30:12,104 Mark Roessler, Richard Fuisz, 587 00:30:12,104 --> 00:30:14,481 Rochelle Gibbons, Phyllis Gardner-- JUDITH: On background. 588 00:30:14,481 --> 00:30:16,483 - And Tyler. - You haven't heard from Tyler? 589 00:30:16,984 --> 00:30:19,903 - No. But that also means I haven't heard that he's recanted. 590 00:30:19,903 --> 00:30:23,407 Come on. Whatever happened to stab the fish? 591 00:30:23,407 --> 00:30:25,242 - Sometimes the fish can take you to court. 592 00:30:26,743 --> 00:30:28,161 And then you have to let them go. 593 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,165 So say it back to me, you have to let the fish go. 594 00:30:34,501 --> 00:30:36,962 - Sometimes you have to let the fish go. - Exactly. 595 00:30:37,754 --> 00:30:40,757 So thank you for coming by. 596 00:30:41,842 --> 00:30:43,468 This is John Carreyrou 597 00:30:43,468 --> 00:30:46,555 and Jay Conti, the deputy general counsel of our parent company. 598 00:30:46,555 --> 00:30:47,806 - Ah, hold on. 599 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,018 Oh, are we recording? Is this a deposition? 600 00:30:51,018 --> 00:30:53,437 - Nope. Just want a record. - Well, hold on. 601 00:30:54,062 --> 00:30:56,231 Maybe we want to record. What do you, what do you think? 602 00:30:56,231 --> 00:30:57,399 - Yeah, why not? Sure. - Okay. 603 00:30:58,066 --> 00:31:01,069 So where is the app? 604 00:31:01,069 --> 00:31:03,322 - Uh, Recorder Plus. 605 00:31:03,697 --> 00:31:05,782 JUDITH: Uh-huh. And do I download it? 606 00:31:05,782 --> 00:31:07,784 JOHN: Yeah, go to the App Store. JUDITH: Mm-hmm. 607 00:31:07,784 --> 00:31:08,994 And how much is it? 608 00:31:08,994 --> 00:31:11,038 - No, it's free. - Oh, okay, free. 609 00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:14,583 Ah, there it is. 610 00:31:14,583 --> 00:31:16,543 Okay, got it. You got it? 611 00:31:16,543 --> 00:31:17,544 JOHN: Got it. - Got it. 612 00:31:17,544 --> 00:31:19,254 - Can we keep moving forward? 613 00:31:19,254 --> 00:31:20,964 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course. 614 00:31:20,964 --> 00:31:23,759 LINDA: Okay. So you sent us 80 questions for review, 615 00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:26,386 and we are here to rebut the false premise 616 00:31:26,386 --> 00:31:27,721 embedded in those questions. 617 00:31:27,721 --> 00:31:31,391 Now, it's apparent to us that one of your key sources 618 00:31:31,391 --> 00:31:33,810 is a young man named Tyler Schultz. 619 00:31:33,810 --> 00:31:36,563 - We aren't disclosing our confidential sources, 620 00:31:36,563 --> 00:31:38,857 nor should you presume to know who they are. 621 00:31:38,857 --> 00:31:41,235 Can we move on? DAVID: You're absolutely right, Judith. 622 00:31:42,110 --> 00:31:44,738 I'm not asking you to disclose your sources. 623 00:31:44,738 --> 00:31:47,574 I respect journalists, and I'm trying to protect you. 624 00:31:47,574 --> 00:31:49,743 There just isn't a story here. 625 00:31:49,743 --> 00:31:51,286 - Then answer my questions. 626 00:31:55,666 --> 00:31:56,708 - John. 627 00:31:57,376 --> 00:31:58,335 It's John, right? 628 00:31:58,335 --> 00:31:59,628 - It is, David. 629 00:32:00,629 --> 00:32:03,423 - You will make a fool of yourself by printing this. 630 00:32:03,423 --> 00:32:06,009 - Mm-hmm, so you're the good cop, David? 631 00:32:06,009 --> 00:32:08,053 - [chuckles] No. 632 00:32:09,179 --> 00:32:10,681 I'm just trying to figure out 633 00:32:11,598 --> 00:32:13,392 how we could have arrived at a place 634 00:32:13,392 --> 00:32:16,812 where The Journal is considering publication of an article 635 00:32:16,812 --> 00:32:20,065 I know to be false, misleading, 636 00:32:20,065 --> 00:32:21,775 and unfair 637 00:32:21,775 --> 00:32:23,986 and threatens to disclose information 638 00:32:23,986 --> 00:32:27,072 that Theranos rigorously protects 639 00:32:27,072 --> 00:32:29,157 as trade secrets. 640 00:32:30,075 --> 00:32:33,996 Do you really believe that all the recognition 641 00:32:33,996 --> 00:32:37,624 by the academic, scientific, and healthcare communities 642 00:32:37,624 --> 00:32:40,794 of Theranos' achievements is wrong? 643 00:32:40,794 --> 00:32:44,381 That every previous published report about Theranos, 644 00:32:44,381 --> 00:32:46,466 including in The Journal itself, 645 00:32:46,466 --> 00:32:50,512 has been the result of misleading manipulation 646 00:32:50,512 --> 00:32:51,763 by the company? 647 00:32:52,973 --> 00:32:54,308 Wow. 648 00:32:54,808 --> 00:32:57,144 If it were true, that's a powerful story. 649 00:32:58,103 --> 00:32:59,813 Why would you let a story like that go? 650 00:32:59,813 --> 00:33:02,608 Why would you check it thoroughly? 651 00:33:03,483 --> 00:33:06,570 That would be a career-defining story. 652 00:33:08,071 --> 00:33:09,615 The only problem is 653 00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:13,368 none of it is true. 654 00:33:13,368 --> 00:33:16,288 ♪ 655 00:33:16,288 --> 00:33:19,041 ♪ 656 00:33:19,041 --> 00:33:21,460 ♪ 657 00:33:21,460 --> 00:33:23,295 - Then why don't you answer my questions? 658 00:33:27,841 --> 00:33:29,218 [clears throat] 659 00:33:29,218 --> 00:33:32,012 I just want to know-- BOIES: Here's what I want to know, John. 660 00:33:32,012 --> 00:33:34,431 What about your conduct in Arizona? 661 00:33:34,431 --> 00:33:36,725 What you were doing down there with those doctors 662 00:33:36,725 --> 00:33:39,269 was nothing short of yellow journalism. 663 00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:41,230 - Oh, David, where'd the good cop go? - Yellow journalism? 664 00:33:41,230 --> 00:33:43,649 - You were asking those doctors loaded questions. 665 00:33:43,649 --> 00:33:44,733 - Okay, here's a loaded question. 666 00:33:44,733 --> 00:33:47,694 If Theranos has new technology, what is it? 667 00:33:47,694 --> 00:33:49,905 - Okay, so you want us to give you the formula for Coke 668 00:33:49,905 --> 00:33:51,240 so that we can-- 669 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,574 - Nobody's asking for the formula for Coke. 670 00:33:52,574 --> 00:33:55,410 - By the way, I like Pepsi. - Okay. Just answer. 671 00:33:56,036 --> 00:33:59,373 Does Theranos use fingerstick samples in their technology or not? 672 00:33:59,373 --> 00:34:00,499 - That's a trade secret. JOHN: Yes or no. Okay. 673 00:34:00,499 --> 00:34:01,500 LINDA: That is a trade secret. 674 00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:03,627 - How about this? This is another easy one. 675 00:34:03,627 --> 00:34:06,046 Are you using Siemens machines in your labs? 676 00:34:06,046 --> 00:34:08,465 - Yes, but for comparison purposes only. 677 00:34:08,465 --> 00:34:09,466 - So you acknowledge you have them? 678 00:34:09,466 --> 00:34:11,552 - For comparison purposes. 679 00:34:11,552 --> 00:34:12,678 - You're grasping at straws-- 680 00:34:12,678 --> 00:34:14,638 - She said, for comparison purposes. Move on. 681 00:34:14,638 --> 00:34:18,183 - Just... walk me through some of the language 682 00:34:18,183 --> 00:34:19,643 that's been changed recently on the website. 683 00:34:19,643 --> 00:34:21,311 - Oh, language on the website? 684 00:34:21,311 --> 00:34:25,899 - The phrase, "Many of our tests only require a few drops of blood." 685 00:34:25,899 --> 00:34:27,651 That phrase was recently deleted. 686 00:34:27,651 --> 00:34:29,528 - Yes, for marketing accuracy. 687 00:34:32,865 --> 00:34:33,991 - Accuracy? 688 00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:37,536 So you characterize the language before as inaccurate? 689 00:34:37,536 --> 00:34:38,495 - Alright. 690 00:34:39,121 --> 00:34:41,874 We will acknowledge that not every blood test 691 00:34:41,874 --> 00:34:44,376 is run on proprietary technology, 692 00:34:44,376 --> 00:34:47,045 but they're transitioning. 693 00:34:47,045 --> 00:34:49,965 It's a transitional process. A journey. 694 00:34:51,592 --> 00:34:52,759 - A journey. 695 00:34:55,721 --> 00:34:57,014 - A journey. 696 00:34:58,682 --> 00:35:00,142 - Alright. This meeting's over. 697 00:35:00,142 --> 00:35:02,853 - W-- well, it's only been four hours. 698 00:35:02,853 --> 00:35:03,770 I mean-- 699 00:35:09,651 --> 00:35:13,614 ♪ 700 00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:18,785 - Oh my god, holy shit. 701 00:35:19,953 --> 00:35:21,872 - They admitted to using third-party analyzers. 702 00:35:21,872 --> 00:35:22,748 - They sure did. 703 00:35:22,748 --> 00:35:25,083 - Yeah. After months of saying they don't use third-party analyzers. 704 00:35:25,083 --> 00:35:26,668 - They sure did. - So, Judith... 705 00:35:27,794 --> 00:35:29,588 is this-- - Bam! 706 00:35:30,172 --> 00:35:34,635 [both laugh] 707 00:35:39,264 --> 00:35:41,934 - Elizabeth, they're running it. 708 00:35:41,934 --> 00:35:43,602 - So when will it come out? 709 00:35:44,228 --> 00:35:46,271 ELIZABETH: Uh, I don't know. Soon. 710 00:35:47,397 --> 00:35:50,526 I spoke to Rupert and asked him to kill the story, but, uh-- 711 00:35:50,526 --> 00:35:52,361 - You asked Rupert Murdoch 712 00:35:53,362 --> 00:35:55,989 to kill a story in The Wall Street Journal for you? 713 00:35:55,989 --> 00:35:57,449 - Of course. 714 00:35:57,449 --> 00:35:58,867 He told me that his hands are tied. 715 00:35:59,660 --> 00:36:03,038 I don't understand why he can't just make a phone call. 716 00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:04,873 - How bad will it be? 717 00:36:05,999 --> 00:36:07,417 - Nothing we can't handle. 718 00:36:11,338 --> 00:36:12,506 George... 719 00:36:13,298 --> 00:36:15,843 I want to know that I have your support. 720 00:36:15,843 --> 00:36:17,344 [sighs] 721 00:36:18,428 --> 00:36:19,680 - I hear 722 00:36:21,682 --> 00:36:26,728 you're joining the Harvard Medical School Board of Fellows. 723 00:36:27,312 --> 00:36:30,357 Congratulations. You must be riding high. 724 00:36:31,942 --> 00:36:34,611 - I know! A college dropout joining the board 725 00:36:34,611 --> 00:36:36,864 of a Harvard Medical School. 726 00:36:37,865 --> 00:36:39,867 Obviously, Harvard's support of our company 727 00:36:39,867 --> 00:36:42,870 means more to me than a reporter who doesn't understand. 728 00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:44,246 - Elizabeth... 729 00:36:45,956 --> 00:36:47,708 I've worked for two presidents, 730 00:36:49,334 --> 00:36:50,836 Nixon and Reagan, 731 00:36:52,546 --> 00:36:54,214 who made bad decisions. 732 00:36:56,091 --> 00:36:57,509 Nixon, more so. 733 00:36:59,011 --> 00:37:00,137 But Reagan 734 00:37:01,930 --> 00:37:05,017 got mixed up in the Iran-Contra affair, 735 00:37:06,852 --> 00:37:08,729 and it hurt his legacy. 736 00:37:09,271 --> 00:37:10,647 He was a great man. 737 00:37:13,317 --> 00:37:15,527 But he started listening to the wrong people. 738 00:37:16,653 --> 00:37:20,532 It's easy to make the mistake of listening to the wrong people. 739 00:37:22,242 --> 00:37:23,785 If mistakes were made... 740 00:37:25,704 --> 00:37:28,373 I think it might be time to consider whether you have 741 00:37:28,373 --> 00:37:30,083 the right people around you. 742 00:37:34,129 --> 00:37:36,381 If Sunny is the right person. 743 00:37:43,805 --> 00:37:46,725 - Baby, how did it go with George? 744 00:37:52,064 --> 00:37:54,274 I said, how did it go with George? 745 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,986 - I have to pack for my Harvard Board dinner tonight and I don't-- 746 00:37:57,986 --> 00:37:59,279 SUNNY: I laid out your clothes. 747 00:37:59,279 --> 00:38:01,073 - Yeah, I don't want to wear what you picked out. 748 00:38:01,073 --> 00:38:02,366 SUNNY: Just wear it, why don't you? 749 00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:14,378 - I don't know what I'm supposed to fucking do. 750 00:38:14,378 --> 00:38:15,921 I don't even know when it's going to come out. 751 00:38:15,921 --> 00:38:17,172 I don't know what it's going to say. 752 00:38:18,674 --> 00:38:20,133 You should have protected me. 753 00:38:21,051 --> 00:38:21,969 - Okay. 754 00:38:22,511 --> 00:38:23,554 I see. 755 00:38:25,097 --> 00:38:26,515 George told you to blame me. 756 00:38:28,642 --> 00:38:30,602 That's what you're going to do? You're going to blame me? 757 00:38:30,602 --> 00:38:31,687 - No. 758 00:38:32,396 --> 00:38:33,814 Of course not. 759 00:38:35,232 --> 00:38:37,150 I have to meet the jet. 760 00:38:43,574 --> 00:38:45,701 - Because I know everything that you know. 761 00:38:45,701 --> 00:38:47,661 [zipping suitcase] - What? 762 00:38:49,913 --> 00:38:51,874 - You were on all of those e-mails. 763 00:39:02,009 --> 00:39:03,218 - Well, I'm the CEO. 764 00:39:05,012 --> 00:39:07,222 And I don't always read all of my e-mails. 765 00:39:08,515 --> 00:39:10,142 [zipper closing] 766 00:39:15,063 --> 00:39:16,398 I love you, Tiger. 767 00:39:19,401 --> 00:39:20,986 I miss you already. 768 00:39:22,946 --> 00:39:23,989 - Miss you too. 769 00:39:28,577 --> 00:39:29,745 [buzzing] 770 00:39:36,502 --> 00:39:38,212 - Richard. RICHARD: They killed it. 771 00:39:38,212 --> 00:39:39,546 It's dead. 772 00:39:40,714 --> 00:39:42,007 You fucked it up. 773 00:39:43,008 --> 00:39:44,593 I knew it. 774 00:39:44,593 --> 00:39:47,054 You got cocky and you fucked it up. 775 00:39:47,054 --> 00:39:49,181 I'm taking it somewhere else. 776 00:39:49,181 --> 00:39:51,266 - [winces] It's too late for that. 777 00:39:51,266 --> 00:39:54,102 - Oh, is that right? Is that what you think? 778 00:39:54,102 --> 00:39:56,772 Hah. No way, buddy. No way! 779 00:39:56,772 --> 00:39:59,733 - It's running tonight, buddy. 780 00:40:01,026 --> 00:40:03,403 - Tonight? What? The-- JOHN: Mm-hmm. 781 00:40:04,029 --> 00:40:05,197 RICHARD: Really? 782 00:40:06,365 --> 00:40:07,491 Yes! 783 00:40:07,908 --> 00:40:09,409 That's, uh, good. 784 00:40:10,327 --> 00:40:12,454 That's good. You, you got it done. 785 00:40:13,580 --> 00:40:14,706 - Yeah, well, you're welcome. 786 00:40:14,706 --> 00:40:16,917 - Oh, what, am I supposed to thank you? 787 00:40:16,917 --> 00:40:18,669 I gave it to you on a plate. 788 00:40:19,962 --> 00:40:21,839 - I hope you can go out tonight, have a drink, 789 00:40:21,839 --> 00:40:23,090 celebrate with your family. 790 00:40:23,090 --> 00:40:24,800 - With my family. 791 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,426 Uh, good. 792 00:40:26,426 --> 00:40:29,721 Uh, well, uh, goodbye. 793 00:40:29,721 --> 00:40:31,598 If, if you get anything wrong, I'll call you. 794 00:40:31,598 --> 00:40:34,685 - [chuckles] I'm expecting you to. Goodnight. 795 00:40:34,685 --> 00:40:36,144 [laughs] 796 00:40:36,687 --> 00:40:38,564 - Oh yes. 797 00:40:38,939 --> 00:40:41,567 Yes! Yes! Yes! 798 00:40:42,109 --> 00:40:45,195 [laughing] 799 00:40:45,195 --> 00:40:47,489 Oh! Good! 800 00:40:47,948 --> 00:40:48,991 Yes! 801 00:40:52,995 --> 00:40:54,955 Ahh. [grunts] 802 00:40:56,039 --> 00:40:57,374 Oh good. 803 00:40:59,251 --> 00:41:00,544 That's done. 804 00:41:14,975 --> 00:41:17,019 - Hi. Could have a glass of water, please? 805 00:41:20,063 --> 00:41:21,481 - A whiskey with ice. 806 00:41:28,155 --> 00:41:30,407 - Phyllis, I saw you were on the board as well. 807 00:41:30,866 --> 00:41:32,618 - I am, yes, and now you are too. 808 00:41:32,618 --> 00:41:36,330 - Yes, I'm, I'm so honored to be asked to advise 809 00:41:36,330 --> 00:41:38,457 the dean of Medical School on strategies. 810 00:41:38,916 --> 00:41:40,250 - It is an honor. 811 00:41:40,250 --> 00:41:42,544 - Yeah, it is good to see you-- 812 00:41:42,544 --> 00:41:44,755 - I'm looking forward to reading the article in the Journal. 813 00:41:45,214 --> 00:41:46,673 Yes, I know about it. 814 00:41:46,673 --> 00:41:49,009 I think a lot of people will be interested in it. 815 00:41:50,302 --> 00:41:53,597 And when this becomes a scandal, because it will become a scandal, 816 00:41:53,597 --> 00:41:56,600 what do you think happens to all of the other women 817 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,227 who want to start companies? 818 00:41:59,394 --> 00:42:00,604 Who do they go to? 819 00:42:01,897 --> 00:42:03,524 Who's going to trust them? 820 00:42:05,192 --> 00:42:06,485 Because it's not just you. 821 00:42:08,779 --> 00:42:10,072 It's never just you. 822 00:42:12,366 --> 00:42:14,034 - It was good to see you, Phyllis. 823 00:42:14,034 --> 00:42:15,869 - Don't call me Phyllis. I'm not Phyllis to you. 824 00:42:15,869 --> 00:42:16,995 I'm Dr. Gardner. 825 00:42:26,213 --> 00:42:28,006 [cell phone chimes] 826 00:42:45,232 --> 00:42:48,235 [chiming continues] 827 00:42:48,235 --> 00:42:50,195 ♪ dramatic music ♪ 828 00:42:53,699 --> 00:42:55,450 ELIZABETH: You know, I realized something last night. 829 00:42:57,202 --> 00:42:58,328 This is what happens. 830 00:42:59,997 --> 00:43:02,499 This is what happens when you work to change things. 831 00:43:02,499 --> 00:43:04,501 First, they think you're crazy. 832 00:43:05,544 --> 00:43:06,503 And then they fight you. 833 00:43:07,713 --> 00:43:09,464 And then all of a sudden you change the world. 834 00:43:10,299 --> 00:43:12,593 By now, you've probably seen the article published 835 00:43:12,593 --> 00:43:15,220 about our company in The Wall Street Journal. 836 00:43:15,971 --> 00:43:18,348 The man who wrote it, John Carreyrou, 837 00:43:18,348 --> 00:43:19,808 is a spiteful man. 838 00:43:20,684 --> 00:43:22,686 He is a sad man. 839 00:43:23,896 --> 00:43:25,731 But we are a team. 840 00:43:26,648 --> 00:43:28,650 And we will be fighting 841 00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:30,485 every single 842 00:43:31,528 --> 00:43:34,156 tiny... detail. 843 00:43:34,156 --> 00:43:38,619 ♪ 844 00:43:39,036 --> 00:43:40,662 - Fuck you, Carreyrou! 845 00:43:41,330 --> 00:43:43,457 ALL: [chanting] Fuck you, Carreyrou! 846 00:43:43,457 --> 00:43:45,501 Fuck you, Carreyrou! 847 00:43:45,501 --> 00:43:47,794 Fuck you, Carreyrou! 848 00:43:47,794 --> 00:43:50,130 Fuck you, Carreyrou! 849 00:43:50,130 --> 00:43:52,132 Fuck you, Carreyrou! 850 00:43:52,132 --> 00:43:54,259 Fuck you, Carreyrou! 851 00:43:54,259 --> 00:43:56,303 Fuck you, Carreyrou! 852 00:43:56,303 --> 00:43:58,138 Fuck you, Carreyrou! 853 00:43:58,138 --> 00:44:02,142 ♪