1
00:00:27,715 --> 00:00:28,716
Mark.
2
00:00:31,510 --> 00:00:34,055
LA. It's a cesspool...
3
00:00:34,138 --> 00:00:35,556
of creativity!
4
00:00:36,098 --> 00:00:40,644
Here in Los Angeles, everybody thinks
they have the next big idea,
5
00:00:40,728 --> 00:00:43,898
but only one or two
actually become the next big thing.
6
00:00:43,981 --> 00:00:45,775
The rest kinda end up in the trash.
7
00:00:46,359 --> 00:00:49,695
See this script?
I've been working on this for six years.
8
00:00:50,946 --> 00:00:52,156
It's garbage now.
9
00:00:52,239 --> 00:00:56,243
In LA, everyone knows
that a great idea can change your life.
10
00:00:56,327 --> 00:00:59,246
Also, a bad idea can change your life,
but for the worse.
11
00:00:59,830 --> 00:01:02,583
I think that's self-explanatory.
Anyway, I'm Paul Scheer.
12
00:01:02,666 --> 00:01:06,337
I'm an actor, director, writer, podcaster.
13
00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:10,216
I've been in a movie where I've been
attacked by killer piranha twice actually.
14
00:01:10,299 --> 00:01:12,051
I've done a lot of amazing things,
15
00:01:12,134 --> 00:01:15,638
but I still have a big dream
and that's to work for Disney.
16
00:01:15,721 --> 00:01:18,015
I mean,
they have my favorite properties ever.
17
00:01:18,099 --> 00:01:19,100
Marvel's here now.
18
00:01:19,183 --> 00:01:22,228
I mean, I grew up
loving Marvel comic books.
19
00:01:22,311 --> 00:01:24,814
I swear to God,
that photo is not doctored at all.
20
00:01:25,523 --> 00:01:27,441
Today,
I'm meeting the executives at Disney+
21
00:01:27,525 --> 00:01:29,527
to talk to them
about what they're looking for
22
00:01:29,610 --> 00:01:31,529
in their brand-new shows, so we'll see.
23
00:02:09,442 --> 00:02:11,861
-Hey, Paul. They're ready for you.
-Okay, great.
24
00:02:11,944 --> 00:02:14,155
-Thank you so much for coming in.
-Thank you for being here.
25
00:02:14,238 --> 00:02:15,781
Yes, it's fantastic to have you.
26
00:02:15,865 --> 00:02:19,535
I'm Agnes. Um,
I oversee content for Disney+.
27
00:02:19,618 --> 00:02:20,661
Um, this is Sarah.
28
00:02:20,745 --> 00:02:24,665
Hi. Sarah Shepard. I work on the
Original Scripted Content team with Agnes.
29
00:02:24,749 --> 00:02:25,750
And Dan Silver.
30
00:02:25,833 --> 00:02:27,793
I run Nonfiction for Disney+.
31
00:02:27,877 --> 00:02:30,004
Let me just tell you,
I'm a huge Disney fan,
32
00:02:30,087 --> 00:02:33,966
and I just kinda wanna understand
what you're looking for at Disney+.
33
00:02:34,050 --> 00:02:37,094
Disney+ represents
the timeless storytelling of our brands,
34
00:02:37,178 --> 00:02:40,347
but, also, we're looking for new stories
and new worlds and characters.
35
00:02:40,431 --> 00:02:42,641
So interesting to kinda figure out
what I would like to do,
36
00:02:42,725 --> 00:02:46,187
but I think the thing I'm most
gravitating towards right now is Marvel.
37
00:02:46,270 --> 00:02:48,356
I mean, I've written a handful
of Marvel comic books,
38
00:02:48,439 --> 00:02:49,774
but I gotta be honest,
39
00:02:49,857 --> 00:02:54,278
I feel like all the best
Marvel characters are kinda spoken for.
40
00:02:54,904 --> 00:02:56,572
Well, that's not necessarily the case.
41
00:02:56,655 --> 00:02:59,450
There are 8,000 characters
within the Marvel Universe.
42
00:02:59,533 --> 00:03:03,454
Just go to the Marvel Handbook,
and I would just flip to any page.
43
00:03:03,537 --> 00:03:05,915
There's gotta be something in there
that you could probably find.
44
00:03:05,998 --> 00:03:08,626
Yeah. Go deep, um, see what you can find,
45
00:03:08,709 --> 00:03:11,420
think outside the box,
and then come back to us with some ideas.
46
00:03:11,504 --> 00:03:13,172
You're right. I'll do my research,
47
00:03:13,255 --> 00:03:16,759
and I'll go back to the basics,
like Rocky training for a big fight,
48
00:03:16,842 --> 00:03:19,595
but be warned,
you better take off your shoes,
49
00:03:19,678 --> 00:03:22,181
-'cause I'm gonna knock your socks off.
-[all laugh]
50
00:03:22,264 --> 00:03:24,392
[Scheer] Killer joke, Paul.
You are crushing it.
51
00:03:25,935 --> 00:03:30,147
Disney+ threw down the gauntlet,
and it was my chance to pick it up?
52
00:03:30,231 --> 00:03:32,817
I dunno. I'm not really good
with medieval metaphors.
53
00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:36,028
All I knew was that I needed
to plumb the depths of Marvel's history
54
00:03:36,112 --> 00:03:38,823
and find characters
who never really got their shot.
55
00:03:38,906 --> 00:03:40,366
So I gathered my documentary crew
56
00:03:40,449 --> 00:03:43,285
to meet and talk
with some of my favorite Marvel writers,
57
00:03:43,369 --> 00:03:47,415
Reggie Hudlin, Donny Cates,
and Gerry Duggan,
58
00:03:47,498 --> 00:03:51,627
to pick their brains about some
Marvel history and forgotten characters.
59
00:03:51,711 --> 00:03:58,676
There's a great history in Marvel
of people taking underutilized characters
60
00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:01,429
-and taking them from B-list to A-list.
-Right.
61
00:04:01,512 --> 00:04:03,556
The X-Men was canceled.
62
00:04:03,639 --> 00:04:05,850
They didn't even make it to 100 issues
63
00:04:05,933 --> 00:04:07,309
-when they first came out,
-Whoa.
64
00:04:07,393 --> 00:04:09,395
and, all of a sudden, they were reinvented
65
00:04:09,478 --> 00:04:14,108
and became giant superstars,
with a number one book at Marvel.
66
00:04:15,192 --> 00:04:18,487
They might seem crazy
or, like, dumb at the time,
67
00:04:18,821 --> 00:04:22,491
but Wolverine, when he first showed up,
looked like a Goof Troop.
68
00:04:22,575 --> 00:04:24,577
-He looks like a goober. [chuckles]
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
69
00:04:24,660 --> 00:04:27,371
He's got a little kitty cat-like mask
on his face,
70
00:04:27,455 --> 00:04:29,874
and his claws
were supposed to be a part of his gloves,
71
00:04:29,957 --> 00:04:32,001
but someone found it
and had a cool story for it,
72
00:04:32,084 --> 00:04:34,795
and they turned it into a real thing.
73
00:04:34,879 --> 00:04:36,714
[Scheer] Gerry, when you wrote Deadpool,
74
00:04:36,797 --> 00:04:39,341
you often brought back
these older Marvel characters.
75
00:04:39,425 --> 00:04:40,801
What was the thinking behind that?
76
00:04:40,885 --> 00:04:42,595
We tried to take a couple of deep dives,
77
00:04:42,678 --> 00:04:45,681
-and we found a character like Madcap--
-Wait, wait, who's Madcap?
78
00:04:46,599 --> 00:04:49,477
[Duggan] He was a young man
in a car accident,
79
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,439
who ran into an A.I.M. truck
filled with some toxic slop.
80
00:04:53,522 --> 00:04:55,566
We have to have the goop in there.
He gets covered in goop.
81
00:04:55,649 --> 00:04:58,778
It's just good comicking
to have some toxic slop
82
00:04:58,861 --> 00:05:02,281
that gives you something,
as it hopefully takes something from you.
83
00:05:02,365 --> 00:05:07,244
But Madcap ended up, sort of, having
an interesting power set for Deadpool.
84
00:05:07,328 --> 00:05:11,248
You can chop off Madcap's arm.
It will pop back on.
85
00:05:11,332 --> 00:05:14,877
So we tried to make him
a dark mirror for Deadpool.
86
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,337
[Scheer] Yeah.
87
00:05:16,420 --> 00:05:20,257
I think what's fascinating about you is,
you take this character of Black Panther,
88
00:05:20,341 --> 00:05:22,468
-at a time when Black Panther,
-Mm-hmm.
89
00:05:22,551 --> 00:05:25,971
for lack of a better term, it's like
a B-list character when you take it over,
90
00:05:26,055 --> 00:05:28,766
and you, kind of,
imbue it with all this energy.
91
00:05:28,849 --> 00:05:30,184
Was it daunting?
92
00:05:30,267 --> 00:05:34,605
I knew what the opportunity was
with Black Panther if I did it right.
93
00:05:35,147 --> 00:05:40,319
I said, "I'm gonna write the comic book
equivalent of a Public Enemy record,
94
00:05:40,403 --> 00:05:45,616
a completely uncompromised,
politically provocative book,"
95
00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:47,993
and that was the key to success.
96
00:05:48,077 --> 00:05:51,330
Suddenly, we're selling huge numbers.
97
00:05:51,414 --> 00:05:54,709
I mean, more comics than
when Stan and Jack was writing the book.
98
00:05:56,168 --> 00:05:59,714
Do you remember
any of those books that you read,
99
00:05:59,797 --> 00:06:03,092
they didn't maybe catch on
or they were a little ahead of their time?
100
00:06:03,175 --> 00:06:05,678
There was a character, uh,
named Doctor Druid.
101
00:06:06,178 --> 00:06:07,972
He shows up in an Avengers issue,
102
00:06:08,055 --> 00:06:09,098
-on the cover.
-Okay.
103
00:06:09,181 --> 00:06:10,516
He's fighting crime in a bathrobe.
104
00:06:10,599 --> 00:06:12,768
He was like a pre-Lebowski Lebowski,
105
00:06:13,519 --> 00:06:16,397
and I go,
"Here's a man of leisure, a magic-user.
106
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,232
-I'm immediately interested."
-Yeah.
107
00:06:18,315 --> 00:06:20,401
-"What's his origin? How did this happen?"
-Yeah.
108
00:06:20,484 --> 00:06:23,612
Well, his origin was,
he just kinda bumped into the same guy
109
00:06:23,696 --> 00:06:25,948
that made Doctor Strange, the Ancient One,
110
00:06:26,032 --> 00:06:28,576
and he gave him some magic powers
to go away.
111
00:06:28,659 --> 00:06:31,245
-[chuckles]
-And I was like, "Wait, why are we--
112
00:06:31,328 --> 00:06:34,957
Why are we having
bargain-basement Sorcerer Supreme now?"
113
00:06:35,624 --> 00:06:38,210
There's a character called the Whizzer.
114
00:06:38,294 --> 00:06:42,006
The Whizzer can run so fast
that he can make little tornadoes.
115
00:06:42,089 --> 00:06:44,425
-[Scheer] Okay.
-So he will do some stuff really fast,
116
00:06:44,508 --> 00:06:46,510
and then people are, sort of, sucked up.
117
00:06:46,594 --> 00:06:48,721
[Scheer] So, almost like
a Tasmanian Devil-esque?
118
00:06:48,804 --> 00:06:49,722
[Duggan] Yes.
119
00:06:49,805 --> 00:06:54,310
His origin was that he, uh,
was injected with,
120
00:06:54,393 --> 00:06:57,146
or injected himself with, mongoose blood.
121
00:06:57,229 --> 00:07:00,399
What was in the mongoose blood?
Is it like radioactive mongoose blood?
122
00:07:00,483 --> 00:07:03,069
I don't know.
Are mongooses known for being fast?
123
00:07:03,152 --> 00:07:05,154
I mean, even if they are,
124
00:07:05,237 --> 00:07:08,449
you wouldn't just get the power
of a mongoose through the blood.
125
00:07:08,532 --> 00:07:10,993
You ever heard of the bad guy Typeface?
126
00:07:11,077 --> 00:07:13,704
Like-- like-- like a typeface,
like a printing typeface?
127
00:07:13,788 --> 00:07:15,706
-Type on his face.
-No.
128
00:07:16,290 --> 00:07:21,545
[Cates] He's this guy who worked
for this sign-making company,
129
00:07:21,629 --> 00:07:24,423
and then a new guy comes in
and buys his building
130
00:07:24,507 --> 00:07:26,467
-and fires him,
-Okay.
131
00:07:26,550 --> 00:07:28,260
and now he's a supervillain.
132
00:07:28,344 --> 00:07:31,347
-I swear to God, that's--
-A sign-making supervillain?
133
00:07:31,430 --> 00:07:36,644
[Cates] He has letters that he took off
of the sign, attached all over his body,
134
00:07:36,727 --> 00:07:40,564
and he writes in perfect signage painting.
135
00:07:40,648 --> 00:07:44,568
He puts an "R" on his forehead
that is for "revenge,"
136
00:07:45,319 --> 00:07:47,613
and then
he just throws these letters, like...
137
00:07:47,697 --> 00:07:49,281
[Scheer laughs]
138
00:07:49,365 --> 00:07:53,994
[Duggan] A super fun idea that came out
of the '80s was Damage Control.
139
00:07:54,078 --> 00:07:56,247
-These are not superheroes.
-Okay.
140
00:07:56,330 --> 00:08:00,042
This is a group that showed up
after the superhero fight,
141
00:08:00,584 --> 00:08:02,962
to, like, dig out from under it.
142
00:08:03,045 --> 00:08:05,005
-They pick up the buildings--
-They're basically contractors?
143
00:08:05,089 --> 00:08:10,845
They're contractors who show up
to clean up the superhero mess.
144
00:08:11,637 --> 00:08:14,765
Satan's son is a superhero
in the Marvel Universe.
145
00:08:15,307 --> 00:08:18,728
He has a very on-the-nose name
of Son of Satan.
146
00:08:19,270 --> 00:08:21,480
Like, no outfit.
147
00:08:21,564 --> 00:08:27,028
He's just got the '70s open chest
with a pentagram on it.
148
00:08:27,111 --> 00:08:29,780
-So he's a bad guy obviously.
-No, he's a good guy.
149
00:08:29,864 --> 00:08:30,906
-What?
-Yeah, he ha--
150
00:08:30,990 --> 00:08:32,742
That's-- See now all of a sudden--
151
00:08:32,825 --> 00:08:33,909
-Yeah, now--
-I-- You--
152
00:08:33,993 --> 00:08:37,997
I would be interested in a villain,
but now I'm super interested in a hero.
153
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,832
Yeah. I love that. So he's Satan's son.
154
00:08:39,915 --> 00:08:41,375
-Is he rebelling against Satan?
-Yeah.
155
00:08:41,459 --> 00:08:44,086
He's like,
"I'm gonna go be with the heroes now."
156
00:08:44,962 --> 00:08:49,425
Okay, so let me tell you about
one of my favorite and craziest books.
157
00:08:49,508 --> 00:08:50,551
Okay.
158
00:08:50,634 --> 00:08:54,305
I don't know if you've ever heard
of the trucker superhero, U.S. 1.
159
00:08:54,388 --> 00:08:56,432
Wait, I didn't even know
there was a trucker superhero.
160
00:08:56,515 --> 00:08:59,101
-Superhero is a real strong word.
-Okay. [chuckles]
161
00:08:59,185 --> 00:09:00,770
-Um, it was a 12-issue series,
-Okay.
162
00:09:00,853 --> 00:09:02,980
and it was during, like, the big-rig boom
163
00:09:03,064 --> 00:09:04,774
where they had
all these films and TV shows
164
00:09:04,857 --> 00:09:07,443
about truckers were, like,
the coolest thing in the world.
165
00:09:08,152 --> 00:09:11,030
He grows up in a legacy trucking family.
166
00:09:11,113 --> 00:09:13,449
Everyone in his family are truckers.
167
00:09:13,532 --> 00:09:16,827
So, he wants to be a trucker
so bad, right?
168
00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:20,373
But [chuckles] his family insist
that he go to college.
169
00:09:20,456 --> 00:09:21,999
-Uh, he doesn't want that at all.
-No.
170
00:09:22,083 --> 00:09:25,836
Then, he's in his brother's rig,
171
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,298
and this rig comes out of nowhere
and pushes them off the road,
172
00:09:29,382 --> 00:09:33,177
-and his brother dies, and U.S. gets--
-Okay.
173
00:09:33,260 --> 00:09:36,639
his head gets caved in,
and he, like, all but dies.
174
00:09:36,722 --> 00:09:37,973
This is insane.
175
00:09:38,057 --> 00:09:42,228
For whatever reason, U.S. was a guy
who was important enough,
176
00:09:42,311 --> 00:09:46,691
where they did experimental surgery
to fix his brain,
177
00:09:46,774 --> 00:09:49,944
and they put this crazy
metal plate in his head,
178
00:09:50,027 --> 00:09:51,362
and when they did that,
179
00:09:51,445 --> 00:09:55,199
he discovered that by pressing his tongue
to his fillings,
180
00:09:55,282 --> 00:09:57,702
he could pick up CB radio transmissions.
181
00:09:57,785 --> 00:10:00,871
[Scheer] This is the most
insane thing ever.
182
00:10:00,955 --> 00:10:05,042
So, he's got the power
of a CB radio in his body--
183
00:10:05,126 --> 00:10:08,045
-Which I don't know what it gets you.
-It seems like if he had the power
184
00:10:08,129 --> 00:10:10,256
to control trucks with his mind,
that's something.
185
00:10:10,339 --> 00:10:11,298
-That's a thing.
-Yeah.
186
00:10:11,966 --> 00:10:15,928
[Cates] By the end of the 12-issue run,
it ends in space.
187
00:10:16,804 --> 00:10:18,723
Okay, and now they're in space?
188
00:10:18,806 --> 00:10:21,267
[Cates] He ends this whole thing
as a space trucker.
189
00:10:21,350 --> 00:10:24,061
[Scheer chuckles] Come on.
How could that not be a hit?
190
00:10:24,145 --> 00:10:28,274
I do have one lead for you.
There's a group called Brute Force.
191
00:10:28,357 --> 00:10:30,067
Wait, wait, what's Brute Force?
192
00:10:30,151 --> 00:10:34,447
Brute Force is a group of, uh,
superhero animals
193
00:10:34,530 --> 00:10:36,782
-that are fighting for the environment.
-Okay.
194
00:10:36,866 --> 00:10:39,243
Wait, [stammers]
they're like The Avengers, but animals?
195
00:10:39,326 --> 00:10:41,287
This is amaz-- This is a whole team?
196
00:10:41,746 --> 00:10:43,748
It's a dolphin with a sub-machine gun.
197
00:10:44,290 --> 00:10:45,750
Wait-- How does he hold it?
198
00:10:45,833 --> 00:10:48,878
-Flingers. It's like a flipper...
-[chuckles]
199
00:10:48,961 --> 00:10:52,006
Wait, is he literally, like--
So, the flippers are carrying a gun?
200
00:10:52,089 --> 00:10:53,299
These are science heroes.
201
00:10:53,382 --> 00:10:54,467
-Let's be honest.
-Okay, sure.
202
00:10:54,550 --> 00:10:57,636
There's not a lot of toxic goop, uh,
that made these guys.
203
00:10:58,137 --> 00:11:01,807
Brute Force. I love this.
I love the title. I love the idea. This--
204
00:11:01,891 --> 00:11:03,434
-We need more Brute Force.
-We do.
205
00:11:03,517 --> 00:11:06,479
I mean, this is an amaz--
This is the best lead I've gotten.
206
00:11:08,481 --> 00:11:11,400
[Scheer]
Brute Force was awesome and weird.
207
00:11:11,484 --> 00:11:14,695
I mean, very, very weird,
and since it only had four issues,
208
00:11:14,779 --> 00:11:17,907
it didn't take me long to become,
kind of, a Brute Force scholar.
209
00:11:18,616 --> 00:11:20,201
So, here's what you need to know.
210
00:11:22,661 --> 00:11:25,581
Brute Force opens
with a group of deranged clowns,
211
00:11:25,664 --> 00:11:28,834
yes, clowns,
who break into the lab of Dr. Pierce,
212
00:11:28,918 --> 00:11:33,047
who we can tell is a super cool doctor
because, you know, he's got a ponytail.
213
00:11:33,923 --> 00:11:36,092
Now they're there to steal a gorilla,
which they do,
214
00:11:36,175 --> 00:11:38,511
and Dr. Pierce isn't some nerd scientist
215
00:11:38,594 --> 00:11:41,180
who's gonna wait for authorities
to handle this matter. No, no, no.
216
00:11:41,263 --> 00:11:42,390
He's got a ponytail.
217
00:11:42,473 --> 00:11:45,267
So instead,
he equips and arms a group of animals,
218
00:11:45,351 --> 00:11:49,897
a bear, kangaroo, dolphin, lion and eagle,
219
00:11:49,980 --> 00:11:51,941
with something he calls power armor,
220
00:11:52,525 --> 00:11:57,029
which gives them human-level speech,
intelligence and various other powers.
221
00:11:57,113 --> 00:11:59,365
One of which, seemingly, is infighting.
222
00:11:59,448 --> 00:12:03,661
This team fights more than my
estranged family at a forced reunion.
223
00:12:03,744 --> 00:12:05,788
Over the course of the four-issue series,
224
00:12:05,871 --> 00:12:10,167
we find Brute Force facing off
against an evil CEO named Frost,
225
00:12:10,251 --> 00:12:13,713
whose evil plans
are to defeat all of his corporate enemies
226
00:12:13,796 --> 00:12:16,966
and/or turn humanity
into pollution breathing monsters?
227
00:12:17,049 --> 00:12:18,718
I'm not 100% clear on that.
228
00:12:18,801 --> 00:12:23,347
Did I mention that Frost also has a team
of equally matched cybernetic animals?
229
00:12:23,431 --> 00:12:25,391
'Cause, yeah. He does.
230
00:12:25,474 --> 00:12:28,394
That's why he kidnapped a gorilla
in the first place, and, seemingly,
231
00:12:28,477 --> 00:12:32,690
that's the only successful mission he's
able to pull off in the entire series.
232
00:12:33,774 --> 00:12:36,068
Brute Force were basically
animal mercenaries
233
00:12:36,152 --> 00:12:38,404
who protect the planet
from those who would do it harm.
234
00:12:38,487 --> 00:12:41,115
They attacked oil tankers,
destroyed coal plants
235
00:12:41,198 --> 00:12:43,534
and even saved the rain forest, twice.
236
00:12:44,869 --> 00:12:46,203
Even though they were victorious,
237
00:12:46,287 --> 00:12:49,790
it seemed like they sometimes created
major collateral damage in the process,
238
00:12:49,874 --> 00:12:53,169
but it's all good when you have a kangaroo
who can quip like this.
239
00:12:55,212 --> 00:12:58,340
I mean, honestly, after reading this,
I was curious why it didn't work.
240
00:12:58,424 --> 00:13:01,469
I mean, what's not to love
about this superhero team?
241
00:13:02,928 --> 00:13:05,765
What do you think the difference is when
an idea works and when it doesn't work?
242
00:13:05,848 --> 00:13:09,643
You have to look at a couple of things.
One is, did you do it good enough?
243
00:13:09,727 --> 00:13:12,229
-Right.
-It's very easy to project out,
244
00:13:12,313 --> 00:13:15,441
"Oh, the people are stupid,"
or "I was ahead of my time,"
245
00:13:15,524 --> 00:13:21,072
or maybe you just didn't quite execute
the idea as strong as it should have been.
246
00:13:21,155 --> 00:13:24,408
The other thing is,
you could suffer the pains of being first.
247
00:13:24,492 --> 00:13:25,493
-Right.
-Right?
248
00:13:25,576 --> 00:13:29,914
And sometimes you're the breakthrough,
but not the breakout.
249
00:13:29,997 --> 00:13:32,375
You know, maybe,
people will look back and go,
250
00:13:32,458 --> 00:13:36,212
"This book was the first
to actually go there, to cross the line,
251
00:13:36,295 --> 00:13:39,131
and then other people built off that,"
or maybe not.
252
00:13:39,757 --> 00:13:41,759
We can't know
how history's gonna judge us.
253
00:13:42,802 --> 00:13:44,470
[Scheer] Reggie was right.
254
00:13:44,553 --> 00:13:46,472
Brute Force was ahead of its time,
255
00:13:46,555 --> 00:13:49,809
and I know he didn't directly kinda
"say that" say that,
256
00:13:49,892 --> 00:13:53,187
but this is a documentary.
I gotta find connective tissue somewhere.
257
00:13:53,270 --> 00:13:58,150
So, if I was gonna rebirth Brute Force,
I needed to find out more about it.
258
00:13:58,234 --> 00:14:01,487
I mean, its creation,
its development, who was behind it,
259
00:14:01,570 --> 00:14:03,406
and that brought me to its editor.
260
00:14:03,489 --> 00:14:07,201
My name is Bob Budiansky,
and from 1976 through 1996,
261
00:14:07,284 --> 00:14:10,579
I was an artist, writer,
and editor for Marvel Comics.
262
00:14:10,663 --> 00:14:14,417
I had a fairly-- [stammers]
a fairly unique job at Marvel.
263
00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:16,961
My job evolved
into becoming the special projects editor.
264
00:14:17,878 --> 00:14:19,755
This is back in the middle of the 1980s,
265
00:14:19,839 --> 00:14:22,216
and Marvel was getting
all of these companies
266
00:14:22,299 --> 00:14:24,552
coming at Marvel, right and left, saying,
267
00:14:24,635 --> 00:14:27,596
"Hey, we want you to develop our property
into a comic book."
268
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,350
These were toy companies, movie companies,
the National Football League,
269
00:14:31,434 --> 00:14:35,229
and so my job as an editor
was to work with the company
270
00:14:35,312 --> 00:14:38,149
to create their vision,
whatever that might be,
271
00:14:38,232 --> 00:14:39,942
and make it a successful comic book.
272
00:14:40,026 --> 00:14:44,280
I had the opportunity to get
a whole range of experiences like this,
273
00:14:44,363 --> 00:14:47,992
of trying out new things
and seeing if the market would accept it.
274
00:14:48,826 --> 00:14:50,703
I think it all began with Star Wars.
275
00:14:50,786 --> 00:14:52,788
Marvel started
putting out Star Wars comic books
276
00:14:52,872 --> 00:14:56,709
a few months before the movie came out,
and they were tremendously successful,
277
00:14:56,792 --> 00:14:58,836
and, obviously,
Star Wars was tremendously successful,
278
00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:02,798
and that, uh, evolved into
the next big project that Marvel did,
279
00:15:02,882 --> 00:15:05,634
which was G.I. Joe,
a similar success story.
280
00:15:06,552 --> 00:15:08,596
And then the next big one
was Transformers.
281
00:15:09,638 --> 00:15:12,725
The job of an editor
is to get the product out the door,
282
00:15:12,808 --> 00:15:15,686
to assemble the creative teams,
to give 'em guidance,
283
00:15:15,770 --> 00:15:17,730
and to get it out by certain deadlines.
284
00:15:17,813 --> 00:15:23,194
I was multitasking, you know, 10 or 15
different projects at a time, typically.
285
00:15:23,277 --> 00:15:27,615
So, Brute Force
was just another blip on the radar for me.
286
00:15:28,532 --> 00:15:30,826
It was a miniseries.
Sure, we'll give it a shot.
287
00:15:30,910 --> 00:15:33,537
I didn't make the decisions about
whether to accept publishing it or not.
288
00:15:33,621 --> 00:15:37,333
It was given to me by my editor in chief
at the time, Tom DeFalco.
289
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,669
I think the thinking behind it was,
up until then,
290
00:15:40,753 --> 00:15:44,715
Marvel had been extremely successful
developing story lines
291
00:15:44,799 --> 00:15:47,885
for toy properties
owned by other toy companies,
292
00:15:47,968 --> 00:15:50,513
G.I. Joe and Transformers
being the obvious examples,
293
00:15:51,222 --> 00:15:53,599
but Marvel had yet to develop
its own line of characters
294
00:15:53,682 --> 00:15:57,645
that could be turned into toys as
successful as Transformers and G.I. Joe.
295
00:15:57,728 --> 00:16:00,981
So, Charlie came, you know,
made his presentation.
296
00:16:01,065 --> 00:16:03,901
I think Tom DeFalco
thought there was some potential there.
297
00:16:03,984 --> 00:16:06,862
We could produce these characters
that are very toyetic.
298
00:16:06,946 --> 00:16:10,199
You know, they are these animals
that have all these robotic features.
299
00:16:10,282 --> 00:16:13,244
It was the hot thing back then
with Transformers being in the market.
300
00:16:13,327 --> 00:16:14,954
So, Marvel wanted to give it a chance
301
00:16:15,037 --> 00:16:19,291
and see if it could be developed
into animation, into a toy line somewhere.
302
00:16:20,376 --> 00:16:24,797
I don't remember the conversation
and how I said to Simon, "I want you,"
303
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,759
or whatever, but he was a guy
I was familiar with, and he was hungry.
304
00:16:28,843 --> 00:16:30,094
So, it was a good fit.
305
00:16:31,303 --> 00:16:34,849
[Scheer] I was getting close to unlocking
the mystery of Brute Force,
306
00:16:34,932 --> 00:16:39,103
and now I had a clue:
Simon Furman, the writer of Brute Force.
307
00:16:39,186 --> 00:16:42,148
And I needed to travel to London
to speak to him immediately.
308
00:16:42,565 --> 00:16:45,317
Hey, Paul. We're not budgeted
for international travel.
309
00:16:47,653 --> 00:16:51,490
[Scheer] On second thought,
why travel when I have a computer
310
00:16:51,574 --> 00:16:53,826
and a semi-fast Internet connection...
311
00:16:55,036 --> 00:16:57,246
which is truly
the best way to communicate,
312
00:16:57,329 --> 00:16:58,789
especially in a documentary
313
00:16:58,873 --> 00:17:01,959
where you really wanna see the person
and be in the same room with them.
314
00:17:02,043 --> 00:17:05,421
I'm Simon Furman,
a writer for Marvel Comics.
315
00:17:05,963 --> 00:17:07,882
[Scheer] Simon was
an influential comic creator
316
00:17:07,965 --> 00:17:11,343
that started at Marvel on books
like Alpha Flight and Death's Head.
317
00:17:11,719 --> 00:17:14,346
He took over Transformers from Bob
in the 1990s
318
00:17:14,430 --> 00:17:17,475
and has become one of the most
prolific writers in that series' history.
319
00:17:18,267 --> 00:17:20,936
He also wrote
all four issues of Brute Force,
320
00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:22,938
and I wanted to see how he got involved
321
00:17:23,022 --> 00:17:25,775
with such a crazy, weird book
and what he thought of it.
322
00:17:26,442 --> 00:17:27,777
Brute Force is a strange one
323
00:17:27,860 --> 00:17:33,074
because it came from an animator
originally, called Charles Viola,
324
00:17:33,157 --> 00:17:35,242
-Okay.
-who had developed these characters,
325
00:17:35,326 --> 00:17:37,411
brought them to Marvel, and said,
326
00:17:37,495 --> 00:17:40,206
"Look, you know,
we could do this the other way around.
327
00:17:40,289 --> 00:17:44,085
Rather than you have a toy line
that you make a comic book out of,
328
00:17:44,168 --> 00:17:47,922
we make a comic book
set up to be a toy line."
329
00:17:48,005 --> 00:17:50,758
So he and Bob Budiansky, more or less,
330
00:17:50,841 --> 00:17:55,221
developed this together,
the characters, the setup.
331
00:17:55,304 --> 00:17:56,639
Then they just needed a writer,
332
00:17:56,722 --> 00:18:00,476
so he just came to me and said
would I jump in at that point.
333
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:04,397
So, are you getting just raw designs
and character names?
334
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,484
Like, how much do you have to go off of
when you're creating this series?
335
00:18:08,734 --> 00:18:12,655
I had a, sort of, loose bible,
I suppose, for the series,
336
00:18:12,738 --> 00:18:17,743
you know, the general setup,
the character designs, some of the names.
337
00:18:17,827 --> 00:18:20,538
The heavy lifting
was done by Bob and Charles.
338
00:18:20,621 --> 00:18:25,209
So, do you have any connection to them,
or this was more of a-- just another job?
339
00:18:25,292 --> 00:18:28,421
It was, kind of, another thing on my desk,
you know,
340
00:18:28,504 --> 00:18:31,882
and honestly, if it had taken off,
I'd have been very happy,
341
00:18:31,966 --> 00:18:37,930
but once it kinda didn't, it just sort of
was maybe wrong time, wrong place for it.
342
00:18:38,013 --> 00:18:41,183
I think they were quite unique,
in a way, for their time.
343
00:18:41,267 --> 00:18:46,022
You know, it was very eco-themed,
which wasn't widespread at the time.
344
00:18:46,105 --> 00:18:49,525
[stammers] It had tapped into something
quite early I think,
345
00:18:49,608 --> 00:18:52,987
and concerns about animal welfare,
346
00:18:53,070 --> 00:18:55,948
even though, strangely,
what you've got is a set of animals
347
00:18:56,032 --> 00:18:59,952
who have effectively been experimented on
and augmented,
348
00:19:00,036 --> 00:19:02,747
but, you know,
if we skip over that little bit.
349
00:19:02,830 --> 00:19:06,000
-[chuckles]
-But I think it felt properly all ages,
350
00:19:06,083 --> 00:19:11,130
which I think was part of the great thing
about it and part of the problem.
351
00:19:12,339 --> 00:19:15,259
[Scheer] So it's a comic book
that was made to be a toy,
352
00:19:15,342 --> 00:19:21,057
but it wasn't adult enough for adults
and not kid enough for kids.
353
00:19:21,140 --> 00:19:25,853
I needed to find out
what the creator truly was inspired by,
354
00:19:25,936 --> 00:19:27,938
which is why I had to meet Charles Viola.
355
00:19:28,022 --> 00:19:29,148
Now he lived in Iowa,
356
00:19:29,231 --> 00:19:31,984
and since we couldn't afford
to fly everyone to Iowa, I guess,
357
00:19:32,068 --> 00:19:34,695
I just rented a place in LA
and pretended like it was his house.
358
00:19:34,779 --> 00:19:36,405
You'll never know the difference.
359
00:19:37,531 --> 00:19:40,743
My name is Charlie Viola,
and I'm the creator of Brute Force.
360
00:19:41,827 --> 00:19:44,455
-Okay, so I'm talking to you.
-Yeah, we're just gonna...
361
00:19:44,538 --> 00:19:45,539
Just you and me.
362
00:19:45,623 --> 00:19:47,124
Where did this idea come from?
363
00:19:47,208 --> 00:19:49,377
Well, animals have always
been a part of our society,
364
00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:52,588
but usually you have them
pulling a wagon or something like that.
365
00:19:52,671 --> 00:19:55,591
I think in the future, we're gonna
be able to communicate with them,
366
00:19:55,674 --> 00:19:58,552
and we're gonna find out they're
a lot more intelligent than we thought.
367
00:19:59,512 --> 00:20:02,598
In this case, you can see
the dolphin now has become a vehicle.
368
00:20:02,681 --> 00:20:04,183
He's got wheels here.
369
00:20:04,266 --> 00:20:07,686
So, what he can do is,
he can retract his arms and legs...
370
00:20:07,770 --> 00:20:09,939
-Oh, wow.
-...and work with wheels.
371
00:20:10,022 --> 00:20:12,149
Now some people, when this came out, said,
372
00:20:12,233 --> 00:20:14,985
"That's impossible.
You can't have bionic arms and legs,"
373
00:20:15,069 --> 00:20:16,278
but actually, it is possible.
374
00:20:17,113 --> 00:20:19,365
Here we got the bear on a trike
and on a motorcycle.
375
00:20:19,448 --> 00:20:22,159
-And here he's driving, like, a--
-How many vehicles do these animals have?
376
00:20:22,243 --> 00:20:24,870
You see, these were all experimental.
We talked about them in the meetings.
377
00:20:24,954 --> 00:20:27,957
-Here he's on some other motorcycle--
-[Scheer] By the way, this is--
378
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:29,667
[Viola] That's with the bear-zooka
that he's got there.
379
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:31,419
[Scheer] I love this bear-zooka.
380
00:20:31,502 --> 00:20:34,338
I've seen circuses
where they have bears ride on motorcycles.
381
00:20:34,422 --> 00:20:36,132
-I don't know if you've seen that. So...
-Yeah.
382
00:20:36,215 --> 00:20:38,259
-...somehow that stuck in my mind.
-Yeah, you're--
383
00:20:38,342 --> 00:20:40,052
It's almost like making him
partly comfortable
384
00:20:40,136 --> 00:20:42,471
because I think it's in their nature
a little bit.
385
00:20:43,347 --> 00:20:45,391
-What is this? This is amazing.
-If they wanted to know a little bit--
386
00:20:45,474 --> 00:20:48,018
At the meetings, they wanted
to know about their personal life.
387
00:20:48,102 --> 00:20:49,895
So I had the bear in his own home there,
388
00:20:49,979 --> 00:20:52,481
and he's got the refrigerator,
and he's got the honey dispenser.
389
00:20:52,565 --> 00:20:54,400
[Scheer]
I love that the bear has a home life
390
00:20:54,483 --> 00:20:56,527
where he actually takes off the armor,
391
00:20:57,069 --> 00:21:00,448
and you've made it so
he doesn't even have to use his fingers.
392
00:21:00,531 --> 00:21:04,452
He's basically pressing a button
to open the fridge door to get honey.
393
00:21:04,535 --> 00:21:05,661
This is amazing.
394
00:21:05,745 --> 00:21:07,079
[Viola] So now we got the lion--
395
00:21:07,163 --> 00:21:10,249
Talk to me about the headband on the lion.
What is the headband doing?
396
00:21:10,332 --> 00:21:14,670
Well, you know, I wanted to have some type
of neuroenhancer technology.
397
00:21:14,754 --> 00:21:16,797
Nowadays, they're experimenting
with technology
398
00:21:16,881 --> 00:21:20,676
that allow people to operate prosthetics,
like people who've lost a limb,
399
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,261
-with their brain waves.
-Yeah. Got it.
400
00:21:22,344 --> 00:21:23,596
And you have something--
401
00:21:23,679 --> 00:21:26,432
They actually install
the technology right now,
402
00:21:26,515 --> 00:21:28,893
but they could put it on
in a case-- headband,
403
00:21:29,477 --> 00:21:33,105
so that people could use
their brain waves to move body parts.
404
00:21:33,189 --> 00:21:35,608
So I was already thinking ahead
to that kind of technology.
405
00:21:35,691 --> 00:21:38,569
This is amazing.
Charles, you're a toy designer
406
00:21:38,652 --> 00:21:42,323
who is so far down the rabbit hole
in science,
407
00:21:42,406 --> 00:21:45,326
you're almost like
a modern-day Jules Verne in a way.
408
00:21:45,409 --> 00:21:47,203
This is so ahead of its time.
409
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:51,040
So I know that you created this,
and this is very dear to you.
410
00:21:51,123 --> 00:21:54,293
Would you be okay with,
you know, someone, like,
411
00:21:54,377 --> 00:21:57,922
leading the charge
of a future Brute Force team?
412
00:21:58,005 --> 00:21:59,548
Oh, sure. I think they'd be great in TV.
413
00:21:59,632 --> 00:22:01,467
I think they're
a little ahead of their time,
414
00:22:01,550 --> 00:22:04,011
'cause back then we didn't have the CGI.
415
00:22:04,095 --> 00:22:05,679
Plus, they could use some updates.
416
00:22:05,763 --> 00:22:08,933
[Scheer] This could be the new X-Men
or Fantastic Four.
417
00:22:09,016 --> 00:22:11,602
This is incredible. It's gonna be huge.
418
00:22:11,685 --> 00:22:13,854
There was a lot to do, but first,
419
00:22:13,938 --> 00:22:17,733
I needed to walk contemplatively
down a nondescript street.
420
00:22:17,817 --> 00:22:20,486
It's a good documentary technique
that helps the audience understand
421
00:22:20,569 --> 00:22:23,072
that I'm really wrestling
with something very important.
422
00:22:23,155 --> 00:22:25,032
After talking to Charles
and seeing his passion,
423
00:22:25,116 --> 00:22:28,828
I realized this was the perfect property
for Disney+.
424
00:22:28,911 --> 00:22:30,871
I mean, it had limitless possibilities,
425
00:22:31,414 --> 00:22:35,334
but I needed to see if people were ready
to accept an animal superhero team.
426
00:22:35,418 --> 00:22:40,047
Because a Marvel show is nothing
without its fans, but where could I go?
427
00:22:40,506 --> 00:22:41,757
-[producer] Hey, Paul.
-Yeah.
428
00:22:42,258 --> 00:22:44,135
How about San Diego Comic-Con?
429
00:22:47,096 --> 00:22:50,850
[Scheer] Ah, yes, Comic-Con.
What a great idea, Paul.
430
00:22:50,933 --> 00:22:53,310
You really are a natural at documentaries.
431
00:22:53,978 --> 00:22:57,982
So, we went to Comic-Con to secretly
focus-test the idea of Brute Force
432
00:22:58,065 --> 00:23:00,568
without telling anyone
exactly what it was.
433
00:23:00,651 --> 00:23:03,946
What would you think
of an animal superhero team?
434
00:23:04,030 --> 00:23:07,408
-I think that would be great.
-We're definitely animal lovers.
435
00:23:07,491 --> 00:23:10,786
We have snakes. We have turtles.
We have German shepherds.
436
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:12,079
-Dogs.
-Big dogs, yeah.
437
00:23:12,163 --> 00:23:17,668
I would absolutely love to see a superhero
animated series with animals, 100%.
438
00:23:17,752 --> 00:23:20,379
Probably the lion.
The lion seems pretty good.
439
00:23:20,463 --> 00:23:24,258
I'd give him the power of the sun
'cause of the way he looks,
440
00:23:24,341 --> 00:23:27,261
'cause the mane will energize him.
441
00:23:27,344 --> 00:23:32,141
I am very partial to kangaroos and
would love to see one have superpowers.
442
00:23:32,224 --> 00:23:34,685
I could definitely see kung fu abilities.
443
00:23:34,769 --> 00:23:39,690
I would definitely see boxing, like,
a wide range of different fighting styles.
444
00:23:39,774 --> 00:23:42,234
[Scheer] What do you think
these animal Avengers would do?
445
00:23:42,318 --> 00:23:43,402
They'd be environmentalists,
446
00:23:43,486 --> 00:23:46,155
so they'd wanna protect the Earth,
wanna protect nature,
447
00:23:46,906 --> 00:23:49,325
stop all these people
from trying to destroy it.
448
00:23:51,410 --> 00:23:53,412
[Scheer] Comic-Con was a success.
449
00:23:53,496 --> 00:23:57,750
These fans totally got the idea
and seemed genuinely excited to see it.
450
00:24:00,169 --> 00:24:03,172
Bringing Brute Force to life
was a tall order.
451
00:24:03,255 --> 00:24:06,425
On the surface,
a group of cybernetic animal superheroes
452
00:24:06,509 --> 00:24:08,302
could be comical if done wrong.
453
00:24:08,386 --> 00:24:11,555
And I also knew that equipping
actual animals with cybernetic implants
454
00:24:11,639 --> 00:24:14,725
was not only immoral
but would probably enrage the ASPCA
455
00:24:14,809 --> 00:24:16,769
and shut down production
before we even began.
456
00:24:16,852 --> 00:24:20,231
Which left me with one option: animation.
457
00:24:20,314 --> 00:24:23,776
Marvel has this amazingly long history
of producing
458
00:24:23,859 --> 00:24:27,988
some of the best animated shows on TV,
and they still do to this day.
459
00:24:28,072 --> 00:24:31,325
But for me, this is where
I fell in love with Marvel.
460
00:24:31,409 --> 00:24:32,910
I would race home every day from school
461
00:24:32,993 --> 00:24:37,331
and watch all the classic
'90s Marvel animated TV shows.
462
00:24:37,415 --> 00:24:39,583
These shows hold a special place
in my heart
463
00:24:39,667 --> 00:24:42,670
as they took
the fantastical world of Marvel
464
00:24:42,753 --> 00:24:44,630
and grounded them in a real world,
465
00:24:44,714 --> 00:24:47,967
which was something
that was very rarely done at the time.
466
00:24:49,635 --> 00:24:51,721
Working in animation
is a really collaborative art.
467
00:24:51,804 --> 00:24:54,306
Animators and writers get together
to pitch ideas
468
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:57,643
in the hopes to find the perfect way
to embody these characters.
469
00:24:58,185 --> 00:25:02,106
Many times, you go through
several stylistic and tonal changes,
470
00:25:02,189 --> 00:25:05,568
and it's a process that I went through
with 6 Point Harness,
471
00:25:05,651 --> 00:25:07,486
which is an animation studio in LA.
472
00:25:07,570 --> 00:25:09,071
-Welcome to 6 Point.
-Thanks so much.
473
00:25:09,155 --> 00:25:12,658
Here we're getting into
that, kinda, '90s throwback feel.
474
00:25:12,742 --> 00:25:14,035
Yeah.
475
00:25:14,118 --> 00:25:17,413
Like the Land Before Time,
All Dogs Go to Heaven.
476
00:25:17,496 --> 00:25:19,206
-So classic.
-[animator] Yeah, it's classic.
477
00:25:19,290 --> 00:25:21,417
Very cartoony in a way.
478
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:25,296
-This is almost a little too kiddie.
-[animator] Mm.
479
00:25:25,379 --> 00:25:29,592
I want this to be the show that
the kids sneak into their parents' room
480
00:25:29,675 --> 00:25:33,012
and they're watching it, and they're like,
"What? How did I get to see that?"
481
00:25:33,095 --> 00:25:34,889
That's great.
That goes right into our next one,
482
00:25:34,972 --> 00:25:37,725
which is kind of like a band,
a musical band.
483
00:25:38,142 --> 00:25:40,478
K-pop, so hot right now.
484
00:25:40,561 --> 00:25:43,522
No, they're not a K-pop band.
No, that's not--
485
00:25:43,606 --> 00:25:45,232
-But K-pop is huge.
-I know K-pop is huge.
486
00:25:45,316 --> 00:25:47,735
They're not that. They're never in a band.
487
00:25:47,818 --> 00:25:49,695
There's never been anything
about being in a band.
488
00:25:49,779 --> 00:25:52,156
I want it to be action-packed.
489
00:25:52,239 --> 00:25:56,494
I want it to feel a little bit scary
but also really accessible.
490
00:25:56,577 --> 00:25:59,580
Maybe something like this. You know?
491
00:25:59,663 --> 00:26:01,707
He's devouring that soldier.
492
00:26:01,791 --> 00:26:05,378
-The soldier has a ripped-off foot?
-[animator] Mm-hmm.
493
00:26:05,461 --> 00:26:07,171
They have knives for teeth.
494
00:26:09,298 --> 00:26:12,843
Okay. Well, they don't.
The animals don't have knives for teeth.
495
00:26:14,261 --> 00:26:16,597
I'm sad to say
this is closer to what I pictured.
496
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,681
Great!
497
00:26:17,765 --> 00:26:20,726
When people think about animation,
I want them to think about this show
498
00:26:20,810 --> 00:26:23,396
and be like, "Oh, my God.
I can't believe that they did that."
499
00:26:23,479 --> 00:26:24,980
-We could do that.
-We'd love that.
500
00:26:25,064 --> 00:26:26,774
So, I wrote down a number.
501
00:26:26,857 --> 00:26:28,651
What can I get for this?
502
00:26:31,487 --> 00:26:34,115
-Uh... like two--
-Two minutes.
503
00:26:35,950 --> 00:26:36,951
-Two?
-Two minutes.
504
00:26:37,034 --> 00:26:38,202
-Two minutes?
-Yes.
505
00:26:39,036 --> 00:26:41,038
Okay. Yeah, two minutes.
Let's do two minutes.
506
00:26:41,122 --> 00:26:42,581
-Two minutes is good.
-Yeah, totally.
507
00:26:42,665 --> 00:26:44,834
-Let's do two minutes.
-All right, great. Two minutes.
508
00:26:45,793 --> 00:26:47,294
[Scheer] I left that meeting confident
509
00:26:47,378 --> 00:26:50,131
that we'd eventually land
on the proper animation style.
510
00:26:50,214 --> 00:26:55,344
But now it was time to focus on story
and the way that Marvel tells a story.
511
00:26:55,886 --> 00:26:58,013
Which is why I reach out to Steve Wacker,
512
00:26:58,097 --> 00:27:01,100
who not only was a senior editor
at Marvel Comics,
513
00:27:01,183 --> 00:27:04,103
but also was the VP of Marvel Animation.
514
00:27:04,186 --> 00:27:09,442
Under his watch, he guided the voices
and styles of dozens of characters,
515
00:27:09,525 --> 00:27:11,944
and I figured Steve would have
some very good insight
516
00:27:12,028 --> 00:27:15,406
on what makes something
exclusively Marvel.
517
00:27:15,489 --> 00:27:19,410
All right,
so there is a ton of Marvel books,
518
00:27:19,493 --> 00:27:22,538
but what are the things that
connect it with an audience?
519
00:27:22,621 --> 00:27:26,584
It's a great question. If we knew exactly
how to do it, we'd hit it every time.
520
00:27:26,667 --> 00:27:29,962
We've got, at this point,
over 8,000 characters,
521
00:27:30,046 --> 00:27:32,298
most of which you've never even heard of.
522
00:27:32,381 --> 00:27:37,053
-I'm talking about Leather Boy. I'm talk--
-Who is Leather Boy?
523
00:27:37,136 --> 00:27:40,014
I don't wanna talk about it.
Uh... Street Poet Ray.
524
00:27:40,097 --> 00:27:41,474
That's not a real character.
525
00:27:41,557 --> 00:27:44,351
Street Poet Ray
was a comic that we published.
526
00:27:44,435 --> 00:27:47,313
It was the early '90s, when that,
sort of, poetry slam thing
527
00:27:47,396 --> 00:27:49,190
-was getting to be big again.
-[Scheer laughs]
528
00:27:49,273 --> 00:27:50,441
Is he a superhero?
529
00:27:50,524 --> 00:27:55,905
No, but he has opinions
on the state of the world, circa 1990.
530
00:27:55,988 --> 00:27:57,448
[Scheer] I need to get this.
531
00:27:57,531 --> 00:28:00,534
For me, when I was editing comics,
532
00:28:00,618 --> 00:28:02,953
what I would talk to writers about
and artists about
533
00:28:03,037 --> 00:28:06,665
is find the character
that you can pour yourself into.
534
00:28:06,749 --> 00:28:08,334
-Use that as the starting point.
-Right.
535
00:28:08,417 --> 00:28:10,961
The first time I noticed it
as a reader was
536
00:28:11,045 --> 00:28:13,964
when Frank Miller came onto Daredevil
as the writer,
537
00:28:14,048 --> 00:28:15,925
and slowly Frank took over the book.
538
00:28:16,008 --> 00:28:18,803
His art style was second to none,
539
00:28:18,886 --> 00:28:23,349
and you could see Frank's experiences
color the entire book.
540
00:28:23,432 --> 00:28:26,310
So it's almost like
you're putting yourself as the character.
541
00:28:26,394 --> 00:28:28,104
-It's a version of acting.
-Right.
542
00:28:28,187 --> 00:28:31,524
I guess what I'm wondering is,
what makes certain comics work?
543
00:28:31,607 --> 00:28:33,693
I mean, like Spider-Man.
544
00:28:34,276 --> 00:28:38,656
It's been around forever,
but what about it connects with people?
545
00:28:39,323 --> 00:28:40,658
[Wacker] It's at the right time.
546
00:28:40,741 --> 00:28:43,661
So it's '62, this comes out,
547
00:28:43,744 --> 00:28:47,707
and it's right at the time
teenagers are gonna take over pop culture.
548
00:28:47,790 --> 00:28:50,459
-Stan at the time was around 40.
-That's what I'm saying.
549
00:28:50,543 --> 00:28:53,546
You're saying throw yourself into it.
You have a 40-year-old man--
550
00:28:53,629 --> 00:28:58,259
But he found new stories
about what it was like to be a teen
551
00:28:58,342 --> 00:29:00,803
at a time when
we didn't have teenage superheroes.
552
00:29:00,886 --> 00:29:03,514
All these other big superheroes
tended to skew older.
553
00:29:03,597 --> 00:29:04,598
[Scheer] Right.
554
00:29:04,682 --> 00:29:06,183
-All his villains are old.
-Right.
555
00:29:06,267 --> 00:29:08,894
There's the Vulture
who looks like Larry David with wings.
556
00:29:08,978 --> 00:29:11,480
-[Scheer chuckles]
-It's just frustrating that they find out
557
00:29:11,564 --> 00:29:13,899
they're getting beat up on
by a 15-year-old.
558
00:29:13,983 --> 00:29:18,154
So it's like finding a little niche
that no one's been, kind of, cultivating.
559
00:29:18,237 --> 00:29:21,782
Actually, the essence of everything we do
is finding characters that don't exist,
560
00:29:21,866 --> 00:29:23,576
-finding an audience.
-Yeah.
561
00:29:23,659 --> 00:29:29,290
You know, this led, 50 years later,
to when I worked on Ms. Marvel.
562
00:29:29,373 --> 00:29:33,461
I was speaking with Sana Amanat,
who worked at my office,
563
00:29:33,544 --> 00:29:37,465
talking about her experiences
as a young Muslim girl in New Jersey
564
00:29:37,548 --> 00:29:40,176
and always having to look
at the white superhero
565
00:29:40,259 --> 00:29:42,678
and never having a superhero
that looked like her.
566
00:29:42,762 --> 00:29:45,389
I said, "Why don't we do that?"
'Cause there's an audience for it.
567
00:29:45,473 --> 00:29:47,558
There are these young girls
all over the world,
568
00:29:47,641 --> 00:29:51,145
and suddenly, we've got a new young hero
representing someone else.
569
00:29:51,228 --> 00:29:55,316
In my mind, the Spider-Man DNA runs
right through all of Marvel,
570
00:29:55,399 --> 00:29:57,943
right to characters of today,
like Ms. Marvel.
571
00:29:58,694 --> 00:30:02,365
We talk about individual characters.
What about teams?
572
00:30:02,448 --> 00:30:06,869
Teams seem to be a big part
of the Marvel Universe.
573
00:30:07,328 --> 00:30:11,707
To me, the most Marvel way of approaching
it is approaching it like a family
574
00:30:11,791 --> 00:30:14,335
'cause that's what Stan and Jack did
with Fantastic Four.
575
00:30:14,418 --> 00:30:15,711
They're Marvel's first team.
576
00:30:15,795 --> 00:30:18,506
They're really
what launched the modern Marvel Universe.
577
00:30:18,589 --> 00:30:22,510
That family dynamic was also new
when Stan and Jack did it.
578
00:30:22,593 --> 00:30:24,929
-[Scheer] Yeah.
-People on teams arguing with each other.
579
00:30:25,012 --> 00:30:27,890
With Fantastic Four,
the Thing is quitting every third issue.
580
00:30:27,973 --> 00:30:28,933
[Scheer] Right.
581
00:30:29,016 --> 00:30:31,936
[Wacker] Johnny Storm, he's a pain
in the ass, lighting everybody on fire.
582
00:30:32,019 --> 00:30:37,191
Sue's very much a 1950s housewife mom
trying to keep the peace.
583
00:30:37,274 --> 00:30:38,192
Then you got Reed,
584
00:30:38,275 --> 00:30:40,820
who's a little above it all
watching the madness go around him,
585
00:30:40,903 --> 00:30:43,406
and he's so distracted
by inventing time machines.
586
00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:46,075
So the reason why I'm bringing you here
587
00:30:46,575 --> 00:30:51,080
is because I'm thinking
about rebooting Brute Force.
588
00:30:51,163 --> 00:30:52,164
[chuckles]
589
00:30:52,248 --> 00:30:55,584
But, wait, don't they make sense?
I mean, they're family. They're niche.
590
00:30:55,668 --> 00:30:57,420
It's a big problem in the world.
591
00:30:57,503 --> 00:30:59,755
We're having
all these ecological disasters,
592
00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:03,467
so they're gonna be fighting that.
I mean, what do you think?
593
00:31:03,551 --> 00:31:06,178
Look, I don't think
there are any bad characters.
594
00:31:06,262 --> 00:31:10,558
Okay. That's a good thing.
Better than Street Poet Ray?
595
00:31:10,641 --> 00:31:13,310
Uh... on par with Street Poet Ray,
596
00:31:13,394 --> 00:31:15,021
-I can fairly say.
-Okay, okay.
597
00:31:15,104 --> 00:31:19,692
What might be an interesting story
is the way that Brute Force is created.
598
00:31:19,775 --> 00:31:22,028
-They are suddenly given intelligence...
-Right.
599
00:31:22,111 --> 00:31:24,071
...and it happens relatively quickly.
600
00:31:24,155 --> 00:31:26,699
There's a lot of story space there
to explore.
601
00:31:26,782 --> 00:31:30,661
That feels like a struggle
that we all have universally,
602
00:31:30,745 --> 00:31:33,914
to try to figure out what our humanity is.
What does it mean to be human?
603
00:31:33,998 --> 00:31:35,833
What is it like
to suddenly have consciousness?
604
00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:37,710
-Right.
-And I think there's something in there
605
00:31:37,793 --> 00:31:40,379
that's kind of rich, and I know we're
talking about this for laughs,
606
00:31:40,463 --> 00:31:42,923
-but now I'm into this a little.
-No! I love this.
607
00:31:43,007 --> 00:31:45,968
It's, kind of, becoming like
this idea of what Spider-Man was.
608
00:31:46,052 --> 00:31:48,596
-Like, you know, it's a new iPhone.
-Slow down.
609
00:31:50,264 --> 00:31:52,558
I mean, I think you're right.
This is the new Spider-Man.
610
00:31:52,641 --> 00:31:55,394
This is gonna launch Marvel
for the next 80 years, right?
611
00:31:55,478 --> 00:31:57,688
I don't want you to say
that I'm right about that.
612
00:31:57,772 --> 00:31:59,273
Yeah. Yeah.
613
00:31:59,357 --> 00:32:00,775
But there is something there.
614
00:32:00,858 --> 00:32:03,819
Yeah, as you're talking, I work closely
with Marvel Animation
615
00:32:03,903 --> 00:32:07,365
on shows like Avengers
and Guardians of the Galaxy.
616
00:32:07,448 --> 00:32:10,326
I could see a version of this
in that world a little bit.
617
00:32:10,409 --> 00:32:13,579
So, you'd green light it
if it came to you across your desk?
618
00:32:14,038 --> 00:32:15,247
You have it on tape now.
619
00:32:17,083 --> 00:32:19,460
[Scheer] I needed to find
these characters' humanity.
620
00:32:19,543 --> 00:32:21,504
And speaking of these characters,
621
00:32:21,587 --> 00:32:24,131
I needed to check back in
at 6 Point Harness
622
00:32:24,215 --> 00:32:26,217
to see how the designs were coming along.
623
00:32:28,552 --> 00:32:29,970
Hey. What's up? What's going on?
624
00:32:30,054 --> 00:32:32,515
-Oh, just finished these. Check it out.
-They look great.
625
00:32:32,598 --> 00:32:34,266
-Yeah, let me...
-Here. Hit enter.
626
00:32:35,101 --> 00:32:36,352
Huh?
627
00:32:36,435 --> 00:32:41,023
So, they still have knives for teeth?
Yeah. Okay. [sighs]
628
00:32:41,107 --> 00:32:42,900
What? Uh...
629
00:32:44,318 --> 00:32:45,611
[Scheer] After a few more notes,
630
00:32:45,695 --> 00:32:48,489
we were able to settle
on an animation style that we all loved.
631
00:32:48,572 --> 00:32:50,533
Yeah, see? Much better.
632
00:32:50,616 --> 00:32:54,036
And now it was time
for the most important part: casting.
633
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,540
Marvel Animation is known
for finding the perfect voice actors
634
00:32:57,623 --> 00:32:59,083
that bring their characters to life.
635
00:32:59,166 --> 00:33:02,545
Oh, and I know firsthand,
as you might remember
636
00:33:02,628 --> 00:33:06,215
my star turn as Mysterio
in the Ultimate Spider-Man.
637
00:33:06,298 --> 00:33:09,093
Don't you forget
who the original Mysterio was, kiddo.
638
00:33:09,552 --> 00:33:12,513
See? I killed it, and then I was killed.
639
00:33:12,596 --> 00:33:14,098
They never asked me back.
640
00:33:14,181 --> 00:33:16,100
I needed to find my cast.
641
00:33:16,183 --> 00:33:18,269
So, I turned to some of my favorite actors
642
00:33:18,352 --> 00:33:21,022
to see if they loved Brute Force
as much as I did.
643
00:33:22,481 --> 00:33:23,774
[dolphin trills]
644
00:33:23,858 --> 00:33:25,401
[Scheer] This is, uh, Dr. Eko.
645
00:33:26,485 --> 00:33:28,738
-And that's a dolphin person?
-Yes, it's a dolphin.
646
00:33:28,821 --> 00:33:32,783
[Byer chuckles] I love his tail.
His tail's protected. He's got feet.
647
00:33:33,617 --> 00:33:35,870
Well, I don't see the doctor part of him.
648
00:33:35,953 --> 00:33:38,456
Usually, doctors are
a little bit more intelligent,
649
00:33:38,539 --> 00:33:40,791
a little more regal
with how they present themselves.
650
00:33:40,875 --> 00:33:44,712
He's just yelling with Uzis
that are aimed in different directions.
651
00:33:44,795 --> 00:33:47,048
-So I don't even what he's shooting at.
-Yeah.
652
00:33:47,131 --> 00:33:49,467
The Eko comes from the echolocation,
that idea?
653
00:33:49,550 --> 00:33:51,802
-Hey, look. Yeah, you see. And...
-Yeah, sure.
654
00:33:51,886 --> 00:33:55,473
I think that maybe the Uzis are gonna
cause a problem with the echolocation,
655
00:33:55,556 --> 00:33:57,475
just the noise factor.
656
00:33:57,558 --> 00:33:59,101
Wow. I did not think about that.
657
00:33:59,185 --> 00:34:02,271
If you saw this kind of a creature,
658
00:34:02,813 --> 00:34:05,941
does it feel like an Iron Man to you,
or does it feel a bit more frightening?
659
00:34:06,025 --> 00:34:11,072
More frightening.
I mean, the scars, the teeth, the bullets.
660
00:34:11,155 --> 00:34:12,823
-[spring pops]
-[thumps]
661
00:34:12,907 --> 00:34:15,743
This is Boomer. This is a character
you would be great for.
662
00:34:15,826 --> 00:34:18,079
-Honestly, I really love this character.
-Yeah.
663
00:34:18,162 --> 00:34:20,456
[Bloom] I like that she has
a silencer on her gun.
664
00:34:20,539 --> 00:34:23,751
Yeah, she's more of a silent-but-deadly
type of character.
665
00:34:23,834 --> 00:34:26,420
But she's the one you're gonna see coming
'cause she's hopping.
666
00:34:26,504 --> 00:34:30,132
So it's like mechanical hopping.
So you're gonna hear that, kung-kung-kung.
667
00:34:30,216 --> 00:34:33,052
Yeah, the hydraulics. I didn't not think
about the hydraulics of that.
668
00:34:33,135 --> 00:34:35,346
Do you think that that's odd
that she has a silencer?
669
00:34:35,429 --> 00:34:38,474
I don't think of kangaroos
as particularly quiet creatures.
670
00:34:38,557 --> 00:34:41,685
-Hmm.
-So the idea that she would be stealthy,
671
00:34:41,769 --> 00:34:45,856
-but the gun was the problem...
-That... [chuckles]
672
00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:47,983
I think it's a good metaphor
for female rage.
673
00:34:48,901 --> 00:34:50,069
Really? Talk to me about this.
674
00:34:50,152 --> 00:34:52,238
-'Cause she has a silencer on her gun.
-Yeah.
675
00:34:52,321 --> 00:34:54,323
Because women are taught
to be silent and apologize,
676
00:34:54,407 --> 00:34:56,784
but yet, you're gonna hear her coming.
677
00:34:56,867 --> 00:34:59,537
So she's trying to be
something she's not, but it's like...
678
00:34:59,620 --> 00:35:01,038
"Girl, you don't need the silencer.
679
00:35:01,122 --> 00:35:05,543
You're a red, half-kangaroo machine.
Like, be heard."
680
00:35:05,626 --> 00:35:07,503
-I like Boomer.
-Boomer.
681
00:35:07,586 --> 00:35:10,381
I like how that might sound when she would
say it 'cause it's, like, Australian.
682
00:35:10,464 --> 00:35:11,590
[both, Australian accent] Boomer.
683
00:35:11,674 --> 00:35:13,551
-Oh, yeah. I like that sound.
-Watch out for Boomer.
684
00:35:13,634 --> 00:35:15,386
[normal] That's talking
to the international appeal here.
685
00:35:15,469 --> 00:35:17,012
-You have an Australian...
-[normal] Huge.
686
00:35:17,096 --> 00:35:19,348
But Dr. Eko is, like, based in Miami.
687
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:22,351
[salsa playing]
688
00:35:22,435 --> 00:35:23,436
This is Lionheart.
689
00:35:23,519 --> 00:35:25,187
[lion roars]
690
00:35:25,271 --> 00:35:26,439
-[Woodward] Quick question.
-Yeah.
691
00:35:26,522 --> 00:35:27,773
Um, they're vehicles?
692
00:35:28,607 --> 00:35:30,609
Yeah, a lot of them have vehicle elements.
693
00:35:30,693 --> 00:35:34,113
Each of these animals
are part robot, part vehicle. Yeah.
694
00:35:34,196 --> 00:35:36,449
Right. [stammers]
So, but you said they're eco-warriors...
695
00:35:36,532 --> 00:35:37,533
Yeah.
696
00:35:37,616 --> 00:35:41,495
-So, are these low-emission... vehicles?
-This is a good point.
697
00:35:41,579 --> 00:35:42,913
I'm gonna have to get back to you on it.
698
00:35:42,997 --> 00:35:44,707
-I think a lot of them are plug-ins.
-Okay.
699
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:47,168
-So he also turns invisible, just FYI.
-Oh, my God.
700
00:35:47,251 --> 00:35:48,794
Well, that's-- You buried the lede.
701
00:35:48,878 --> 00:35:50,671
A lion that turns invisible?
702
00:35:50,755 --> 00:35:54,884
I'm not seeing
the direct correlation there. [chuckles]
703
00:35:54,967 --> 00:35:56,635
-'Cause we're all frightened of a lion.
-Right.
704
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,929
But what's more frightening than a lion?
705
00:35:59,013 --> 00:36:01,265
-An invisible lion.
-Yes.
706
00:36:01,348 --> 00:36:03,017
You see? Now you're kind of, like...
707
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:04,310
[eagle screeches]
708
00:36:04,393 --> 00:36:08,064
[Scheer] This is Soar.
Soar is an American bald eagle.
709
00:36:08,147 --> 00:36:12,485
Why is a eagle American? Why did we
decide that the bald eagle was us?
710
00:36:13,235 --> 00:36:16,280
That's a really good point. Maybe
what we do is give him a French accent.
711
00:36:16,364 --> 00:36:17,948
Ah, yes! That would be fun.
712
00:36:18,032 --> 00:36:19,700
-And he's revolting against this.
-Yes!
713
00:36:19,784 --> 00:36:21,160
That he has been called...
714
00:36:21,243 --> 00:36:23,537
Yes. [French accent] Bonjour, I am Soar.
715
00:36:24,789 --> 00:36:29,085
Here's my question about Soar, though, is
that he's a eagle that turns into a jet,
716
00:36:29,168 --> 00:36:32,171
which really doesn't help him
'cause he could already fly.
717
00:36:32,254 --> 00:36:34,548
So he's like, "I'm flying,"
and then he transforms,
718
00:36:34,632 --> 00:36:36,801
and he's like, "I'm really flying now."
719
00:36:36,884 --> 00:36:38,135
[both laugh]
720
00:36:38,219 --> 00:36:39,136
[bear growls]
721
00:36:39,220 --> 00:36:40,971
[Scheer]
This is the real fun character here.
722
00:36:41,055 --> 00:36:43,808
-We just call him Bear.
-[Bloom] Bear. I was gonna say. That's...
723
00:36:43,891 --> 00:36:45,476
-Yeah. And that's--
-Is that a grill?
724
00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:47,728
-Um, yeah. It says--
-So he has a bear grill?
725
00:36:47,978 --> 00:36:51,232
Yeah, that is a bear grill.
Yeah, that is a pretty-- [laughs]
726
00:36:51,315 --> 00:36:55,152
Okay. I wanna be him.
First of all, he's fierce. He is stro--
727
00:36:55,236 --> 00:36:56,362
-Obviously he's strong...
-Yeah.
728
00:36:56,445 --> 00:37:00,491
...but with a sensitivity
and a sexuality that I'm drawn to.
729
00:37:00,574 --> 00:37:02,743
Do you think this is scarier
than a normal bear?
730
00:37:02,827 --> 00:37:06,038
It might make me laugh upon first sight
731
00:37:06,122 --> 00:37:08,666
because it looks like
he just ballooned out so big
732
00:37:08,749 --> 00:37:10,751
that his clothes got too small.
733
00:37:10,835 --> 00:37:11,836
[both laughing]
734
00:37:11,919 --> 00:37:12,920
With all due respect.
735
00:37:13,003 --> 00:37:15,047
He seems to be missing armor
in some very crucial spots.
736
00:37:15,131 --> 00:37:16,132
Little bit, right?
737
00:37:16,215 --> 00:37:18,801
I'm like, "Oh, here comes this bear
in a tank top.
738
00:37:18,884 --> 00:37:20,803
I'm gonna shoot him in the belly."
739
00:37:20,886 --> 00:37:23,180
But what is the power gauge on his tummy?
740
00:37:23,264 --> 00:37:25,474
-That?
-Is that, like, how full he is?
741
00:37:25,558 --> 00:37:27,268
Is it a battery indicator?
742
00:37:27,351 --> 00:37:29,186
I have to talk to our animators
about that.
743
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:31,647
-Maybe, like-- Yeah.
-Here's my pitch.
744
00:37:31,731 --> 00:37:34,275
First of all, I would reverse the colors
to green, yellow, red.
745
00:37:34,358 --> 00:37:35,860
-Right.
-It starts green and then,
746
00:37:35,943 --> 00:37:39,071
as soon as it fills up-- If he gets to X,
trouble. You're in trouble.
747
00:37:39,155 --> 00:37:40,531
-Right. Yeah.
-'Cause that's full power.
748
00:37:40,614 --> 00:37:43,784
Yeah, 'cause green is traditionally
the go symbol. Yellow is, like--
749
00:37:43,868 --> 00:37:46,245
-But I like it green being safe.
-That's what I like.
750
00:37:46,328 --> 00:37:48,998
When you get to red,
when you get to a big red X, watch out.
751
00:37:49,081 --> 00:37:50,291
-Watch out.
-Bear is going off.
752
00:37:50,374 --> 00:37:53,544
The design could be softened a little bit.
753
00:37:53,627 --> 00:37:55,129
You want to relate to this guy.
754
00:37:55,212 --> 00:37:59,050
But we wanna make it edgy for the kids.
We want this to be from six to 60.
755
00:38:00,259 --> 00:38:02,303
-Years old?
-Yeah. That's the audience.
756
00:38:04,013 --> 00:38:06,557
-From six to 60 years old?
-Like Frozen.
757
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,226
[both chuckle]
758
00:38:09,310 --> 00:38:12,563
By the way, the merch on this stuff
is gonna be through the roof.
759
00:38:12,646 --> 00:38:14,940
I'm so happy that you brought that up.
760
00:38:15,024 --> 00:38:16,734
That's-- Yes, you--
We're right on the same page.
761
00:38:16,817 --> 00:38:21,072
Dr. Eko, dolphin head, body armor,
double Uzi.
762
00:38:21,155 --> 00:38:23,657
-It's gonna be sold out.
-It writes-- It Halloweens itself.
763
00:38:25,618 --> 00:38:27,787
[Scheer] It was great getting
all this fearless feedback,
764
00:38:27,870 --> 00:38:30,498
and now it was time
for me to pick my cast.
765
00:38:30,581 --> 00:38:31,582
[Producer] Paul.
766
00:38:32,708 --> 00:38:34,460
We can only hire non-union actors.
767
00:38:35,211 --> 00:38:38,047
[scoffs] I wish you would've told me this
before I had all my auditions.
768
00:38:38,714 --> 00:38:39,799
Thanks a lot.
769
00:38:39,882 --> 00:38:43,344
And stop interrupting my voice-over.
I'm trying to make a documentary here.
770
00:38:44,095 --> 00:38:45,096
[sighs]
771
00:38:47,139 --> 00:38:48,933
If I couldn't hire Jon Hamm,
772
00:38:49,016 --> 00:38:52,186
I could at least steal his idea
and make it my own.
773
00:38:52,269 --> 00:38:57,274
Brute Force was prime for a toy line.
And who does toys better than Marvel?
774
00:38:57,358 --> 00:38:59,402
When it comes to creating
lifelike action figures
775
00:38:59,485 --> 00:39:01,737
to amazing costumes to perfect play sets,
776
00:39:01,821 --> 00:39:05,825
Marvel toys makes you feel
a part of the action.
777
00:39:05,908 --> 00:39:10,246
From ages six to 60,
there is a toy for everyone.
778
00:39:10,329 --> 00:39:14,250
I can picture kids under the Christmas
tree holding Dr. Eko and Soar.
779
00:39:14,917 --> 00:39:17,795
It would be like my Christmas
but with actual toys,
780
00:39:17,878 --> 00:39:20,548
not just frozen meat dressed as toys.
781
00:39:20,631 --> 00:39:22,007
My parents were not well.
782
00:39:22,091 --> 00:39:26,512
Anyway. This was the last step
in developing the perfect Disney+ show.
783
00:39:26,971 --> 00:39:29,306
If Brute Force was gonna be a contender,
784
00:39:29,390 --> 00:39:33,894
I need to sit with one of the minds
behind Marvel's toy design, Jesse Falcon.
785
00:39:34,770 --> 00:39:38,107
If we're gonna design toys
for Brute Force,
786
00:39:38,190 --> 00:39:40,609
what do you think the goal would be?
787
00:39:40,818 --> 00:39:43,988
I think there are three major segments
that we could talk about.
788
00:39:44,071 --> 00:39:47,908
There's role-play, where you can put on
elements of the characters
789
00:39:47,992 --> 00:39:49,410
and reenact those parts.
790
00:39:49,493 --> 00:39:50,745
There's action figure play.
791
00:39:50,828 --> 00:39:53,539
There's vehicle play.
And, of course, there's masks.
792
00:39:53,622 --> 00:39:56,917
Talk to me about role-play toys.
What are some examples of role-play toys?
793
00:39:57,001 --> 00:39:58,419
Great. So I got two great ones here.
794
00:39:58,502 --> 00:39:59,920
This is a deep cut,
795
00:40:00,004 --> 00:40:02,256
-the Hulk hands from 2003.
-Oh, wow.
796
00:40:02,339 --> 00:40:03,716
-Love this.
-Made of foam.
797
00:40:03,799 --> 00:40:06,761
So, really, kids or collectors
can play with those.
798
00:40:06,844 --> 00:40:09,221
Super simple.
You put it in and you grab it and uh...
799
00:40:09,305 --> 00:40:10,931
-Boom! You--
-Boom! You're off to the races.
800
00:40:11,015 --> 00:40:12,975
-Love it.
-This one's brand-new.
801
00:40:13,059 --> 00:40:14,310
This is from Avengers: Endgame.
802
00:40:14,393 --> 00:40:16,896
This is the Nano Gauntlet,
the sized-up one.
803
00:40:17,646 --> 00:40:19,148
Got lights and sounds.
804
00:40:20,608 --> 00:40:23,736
So this is-- Basically,
you could become the character?
805
00:40:23,819 --> 00:40:27,073
Yeah, you could become the character.
You could sit here and read comic books.
806
00:40:27,156 --> 00:40:32,161
So what kinda stuff could we do that
could be, like, a tactile thing like this?
807
00:40:32,244 --> 00:40:33,329
A hand or a fist. Yeah.
808
00:40:33,412 --> 00:40:35,456
So you've got a great character
that's a bear.
809
00:40:35,539 --> 00:40:37,041
You put a big bear claw on.
810
00:40:37,124 --> 00:40:40,461
It's all covered in mech,
and then you'd have pop-off bear claws.
811
00:40:40,544 --> 00:40:42,463
It would come with a log
so you could scratch,
812
00:40:42,546 --> 00:40:45,841
and then the kid could give himself
a great back scratch, just like bears do.
813
00:40:45,925 --> 00:40:47,927
Are there any toys
that we can kinda come up with
814
00:40:48,010 --> 00:40:49,136
that would help the environment?
815
00:40:49,220 --> 00:40:51,680
So the kids are playing,
but they're doing something good.
816
00:40:51,764 --> 00:40:56,102
Could we figure out a way to make
recycling in the real world with the toys?
817
00:40:56,811 --> 00:40:59,855
[Falcon] The bear with the
retractable claws can come with seeds
818
00:40:59,939 --> 00:41:04,026
so that you can claw holes in the ground,
and you can fight deforestation.
819
00:41:04,110 --> 00:41:05,736
Right. So you're actually planting seeds
820
00:41:05,820 --> 00:41:07,571
while you're playing out in the back.
I love that.
821
00:41:07,655 --> 00:41:11,450
The lion, we could have a very small
grinder inside of his mouth.
822
00:41:11,534 --> 00:41:14,704
Once you've torn it out of the packaging,
what do you do with this packaging?
823
00:41:14,787 --> 00:41:17,289
You feed it in and grind it into regrind,
824
00:41:17,373 --> 00:41:19,583
and then you can melt that down
and create your own toys.
825
00:41:19,667 --> 00:41:22,586
This is amazing. So we're talking
about a Brute Force compost bin,
826
00:41:22,670 --> 00:41:25,339
which means that
we can make kids buy more toys
827
00:41:25,423 --> 00:41:27,925
-because they wanna compost the packaging.
-Correct.
828
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:32,304
[Scheer] What could we do
with our dolphin character, Dr. Eko?
829
00:41:32,763 --> 00:41:35,099
You can do so much
with pool inflatables these days.
830
00:41:35,182 --> 00:41:39,019
You can literally recreate that as
something that is a life-sized inflata--
831
00:41:39,103 --> 00:41:41,313
-I'm dead serious.
-So you can get in.
832
00:41:41,397 --> 00:41:44,483
Maybe make it a little flat so you could
put a drink cozy in the blowhole,
833
00:41:44,567 --> 00:41:47,570
-and a kid can paddle around in the pool.
-[laughs] Right.
834
00:41:47,653 --> 00:41:51,198
Do you think that Brute Force has legs
in the merchandising world?
835
00:41:51,282 --> 00:41:53,409
I really think this is a cool concept.
836
00:41:55,911 --> 00:41:58,998
[Scheer] Developing Brute Force
has been an amazing journey.
837
00:41:59,081 --> 00:42:02,585
Before I was ready to go back to Disney+,
I needed to do one more thing...
838
00:42:03,085 --> 00:42:04,670
have a flashback montage.
839
00:42:05,212 --> 00:42:08,591
This is where I just visually remember
everything I learned.
840
00:42:08,674 --> 00:42:11,886
Things like, "Anything can be cool
in the right hands,
841
00:42:11,969 --> 00:42:14,346
and that while
at first glance unbelievable,
842
00:42:14,430 --> 00:42:16,515
that doesn't mean impossible."
843
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:18,017
And I also remember this guy.
844
00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:20,019
I'm still trying to figure out
what character he is.
845
00:42:20,102 --> 00:42:22,146
I think it's the Spider-Verse.
846
00:42:22,229 --> 00:42:24,732
I also remember some of the sad times.
847
00:42:25,858 --> 00:42:28,778
But I got through it because
I realized at the end of the day,
848
00:42:28,861 --> 00:42:31,030
this isn't about creating great toys.
849
00:42:31,113 --> 00:42:36,077
It's about creating great characters,
characters who are full of humanity,
850
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,790
and I knew this had every element of
what Disney+ and Marvel were looking for.
851
00:42:41,332 --> 00:42:43,542
Whoo! Now that this montage is over,
852
00:42:43,626 --> 00:42:45,419
I feel like I'm ready
to go back in and pitch.
853
00:42:45,503 --> 00:42:47,046
Let's do this!
854
00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:51,884
Thank you so much for having me back.
I brought Steve with me here.
855
00:42:51,967 --> 00:42:53,594
-Hi, Steve.
-Pleasure to see everybody.
856
00:42:53,677 --> 00:42:54,720
Nice to see you.
857
00:42:54,804 --> 00:42:59,850
My job is to find the projects
that resonate both with me personally
858
00:42:59,934 --> 00:43:02,561
and that I think tells
the Marvel story the best.
859
00:43:03,229 --> 00:43:09,110
When you can't find those,
you turn to projects outside the box.
860
00:43:09,652 --> 00:43:12,571
And that's when I turned to Paul Shore.
861
00:43:12,988 --> 00:43:14,990
-It's, uh, Scheer.
-That's right.
862
00:43:15,074 --> 00:43:18,619
And what I'm excited about
is for him to talk to you
863
00:43:18,703 --> 00:43:20,621
about the things that he's about to say.
864
00:43:21,205 --> 00:43:24,792
-Thank you for that... that introduction.
-My pleasure.
865
00:43:24,875 --> 00:43:26,961
It's the least you could do, literally.
866
00:43:27,044 --> 00:43:30,339
We are back,
and I really took your advice.
867
00:43:30,423 --> 00:43:35,553
I thought about Marvel characters
and what has, kind of, been untapped.
868
00:43:35,636 --> 00:43:37,054
I believe I found a property,
869
00:43:37,138 --> 00:43:38,973
and I know Steve's excited
about this property, that--
870
00:43:39,056 --> 00:43:41,934
-Well...
-Well, you said you were excited about it.
871
00:43:42,017 --> 00:43:44,437
Well, I said, "Okay, let's talk about it."
872
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,022
He essentially green lit it.
873
00:43:46,105 --> 00:43:48,274
-He said, "I would green light this."
-I didn't green light it.
874
00:43:48,357 --> 00:43:51,152
Well, I have that on tape,
so I could just play it for them. I gue--
875
00:43:51,235 --> 00:43:53,738
Uh, anyway, let's take a look.
876
00:43:58,409 --> 00:44:01,871
I'd like to introduce you to Brute Force.
877
00:44:03,039 --> 00:44:05,291
[woman on PA]
Sea Land is now closed.
878
00:44:11,338 --> 00:44:12,590
Feeding time.
879
00:44:13,591 --> 00:44:16,260
Whoops! What's the matter, stupid?
880
00:44:16,343 --> 00:44:18,804
You can't get out of the cage
to get your food?
881
00:44:18,888 --> 00:44:21,724
[spits] Chew on this. [laughs]
882
00:44:21,807 --> 00:44:25,102
Let's go mess with the turtles next.
They're so stupid.
883
00:44:25,186 --> 00:44:28,939
-Yeah, them and their stupid shell--
-Larry?
884
00:44:29,023 --> 00:44:31,859
-[growling]
-No! The stories are true!
885
00:44:31,942 --> 00:44:35,279
-Look, man, I was only following orders.
-[Dr. Eko] We will not be ignored.
886
00:44:35,363 --> 00:44:37,114
[zookeeper screams]
887
00:44:37,907 --> 00:44:41,327
Destruction, assault and dolphin theft.
888
00:44:41,410 --> 00:44:42,495
[spits, groans]
889
00:44:42,578 --> 00:44:44,455
What type of person would do such a thing?
890
00:44:44,538 --> 00:44:45,831
Not a person.
891
00:44:45,915 --> 00:44:50,461
Meet Brute Force, a group of
genetically engineered animal vigilantes
892
00:44:50,544 --> 00:44:53,964
who use any means necessary
to achieve their eco-agenda.
893
00:44:54,632 --> 00:44:55,633
I guess.
894
00:44:55,716 --> 00:44:59,261
Animals that fight for the rights
of other animals?
895
00:44:59,345 --> 00:45:00,596
You gotta be kidding me.
896
00:45:00,679 --> 00:45:02,348
Oh, they're no joke,
897
00:45:02,431 --> 00:45:05,768
and if they have it their way,
we'll soon be an extinct species.
898
00:45:05,851 --> 00:45:08,354
Boomer. Kangaroo and martial artist.
899
00:45:08,437 --> 00:45:13,067
By the time you hear her hop...
you'll be stomped dead.
900
00:45:13,150 --> 00:45:14,819
A kung fu kangaroo?
901
00:45:14,902 --> 00:45:17,905
[female detective] Soar.
An eagle that can go Mach 3.
902
00:45:17,988 --> 00:45:21,075
When he drops something from the sky,
you'd better watch out.
903
00:45:21,575 --> 00:45:24,537
This is what he did to a local circus
that came to town.
904
00:45:24,620 --> 00:45:27,081
Oof! Was not expecting that.
905
00:45:27,164 --> 00:45:28,290
Oh, it gets worse.
906
00:45:28,374 --> 00:45:31,711
Lionheart. He's a lion and a motorcycle,
907
00:45:31,794 --> 00:45:34,964
claws and teeth bonded
with an adamantium vibranium mix.
908
00:45:35,047 --> 00:45:37,925
There's not a substance in
the known universe he can't tear through.
909
00:45:38,008 --> 00:45:42,096
-And this kitty can turn invisible.
-[grunts, screams]
910
00:45:42,179 --> 00:45:44,014
All right. Well, that seems pretty cool.
911
00:45:44,098 --> 00:45:47,977
Dr. Eko. He's a dolphin scientist
that can walk on land...
912
00:45:49,145 --> 00:45:52,273
with a mind that rivals Tony Stark
and Professor Xavier.
913
00:45:52,356 --> 00:45:57,862
If you don't do what he wants, he'll
blast you with 500 gallons of pure H2O.
914
00:45:58,487 --> 00:46:01,240
That gives a whole new meaning
to wet and wild.
915
00:46:01,323 --> 00:46:04,785
And Bear. Know the Hulk?
Yeah, well, this guy's stronger.
916
00:46:05,870 --> 00:46:09,206
Only double as dumb and with a bazooka.
917
00:46:09,290 --> 00:46:12,001
More like a bear-zooka. [chuckles]
918
00:46:12,084 --> 00:46:13,836
Yeah, you really come up with them.
919
00:46:13,919 --> 00:46:18,424
Anyway, now you're responsible for
finding them and bringing them in alive.
920
00:46:18,507 --> 00:46:20,426
All right, but why me?
921
00:46:20,509 --> 00:46:23,929
Simple. You turn everything into a pun,
and it's annoying.
922
00:46:24,013 --> 00:46:27,600
Well, I guess
I just found my life's porpoise.
923
00:46:27,683 --> 00:46:29,602
See, that's what I'm talking about.
924
00:46:29,685 --> 00:46:31,479
[man narrating] Brute Force!
925
00:46:35,024 --> 00:46:38,110
There you go. So, what do you think?
926
00:46:39,111 --> 00:46:43,616
Wow, really exciting. I mean, wow, wow.
927
00:46:44,658 --> 00:46:46,160
Interesting.
928
00:46:46,243 --> 00:46:49,038
Have you thought
about maybe bringing in Jon Favreau
929
00:46:49,121 --> 00:46:51,999
and having him share some of his vision
for this idea?
930
00:46:52,083 --> 00:46:53,084
Um...
931
00:46:54,460 --> 00:46:58,089
-But if Jon Favreau does it, would I--
-That's a great idea.
932
00:46:58,172 --> 00:47:02,051
Well, hold on one second. The--
But would I be involved in it?
933
00:47:02,134 --> 00:47:05,638
-[Wacker] Uh... yeah.
-To be discussed. We'll talk about it.
934
00:47:05,721 --> 00:47:08,182
If you can get Jon Favreau,
we don't need Paul.
935
00:47:08,974 --> 00:47:12,269
I'm right here. You guys, you need me.
Can I be involved in it in some way?
936
00:47:12,353 --> 00:47:14,397
Favreau's the perfect choice for this.
937
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,732
Have you ever thought about
making a doc about it?
938
00:47:17,316 --> 00:47:19,068
Yeah, I do have this camera crew.
939
00:47:19,819 --> 00:47:21,153
[Silver] Oh, that's normal.
940
00:47:21,237 --> 00:47:24,573
[Scheer] They're great.
I just like to document my life.
941
00:47:24,657 --> 00:47:26,158
[Silver] Yeah.
942
00:47:26,242 --> 00:47:29,120
-So this would be on the show? This pitch?
-Right now?
943
00:47:29,787 --> 00:47:31,288
But how would it end?
944
00:47:31,372 --> 00:47:33,958
Think there'd be a climactic ending here,
you know?
945
00:47:34,041 --> 00:47:36,377
-Yeah.
-Right now it just kind of--
946
00:47:37,128 --> 00:47:39,922
What could end-- What if Paul fails
and then we get Favreau?
947
00:47:40,548 --> 00:47:44,510
The ending would be right now, here, now,
and you just roll credits.
948
00:47:46,846 --> 00:47:48,305
Oh, like right now.
949
00:48:11,704 --> 00:48:15,332
-So, who are these guys fighting?
-They're fighting, um...
950
00:48:15,416 --> 00:48:17,585
Corporations, probably,
are going to be their big thing.
951
00:48:17,668 --> 00:48:19,170
So they're the 99%.
952
00:48:19,253 --> 00:48:22,381
Yeah. They're going in if your company
is maybe polluting the atmosphere,
953
00:48:22,465 --> 00:48:24,091
-they're gonna go in.
-Oh, I see.
954
00:48:24,175 --> 00:48:26,177
This is the force
maybe Greenpeace calls in.
955
00:48:26,260 --> 00:48:27,511
-I got you.
-Yeah.
956
00:48:27,595 --> 00:48:30,181
Greenpeace is like,
"We need to bump it up a notch."
957
00:48:30,264 --> 00:48:32,433
-His name is Dr. Eko?
-He's the smartest of the bunch.
958
00:48:32,516 --> 00:48:33,726
So he has a degree?
959
00:48:34,643 --> 00:48:37,021
Yeah, we don't know if he went to--
960
00:48:37,104 --> 00:48:38,856
probably an online degree,
I would imagine.
961
00:48:38,939 --> 00:48:42,318
Okay, so the name is Boomer.
Is it because of Boomerang, kangaroo?
962
00:48:42,401 --> 00:48:43,569
-No.
-No?
963
00:48:43,652 --> 00:48:44,904
-No.
-Okay.
964
00:48:44,987 --> 00:48:47,073
It's a missed opportunity. [chuckles]
965
00:48:47,156 --> 00:48:48,908
Would this be scary to you?
966
00:48:48,991 --> 00:48:51,410
I think if the kangaroo
was riding that motorcycle,
967
00:48:51,494 --> 00:48:53,829
I'd be completely confused and terrified.
968
00:48:53,913 --> 00:48:57,833
-A kangaroo with a sword, just, yeah.
-With a sword and two hip guns going.
969
00:48:57,917 --> 00:49:01,629
[Byer] You're making him,
so why not give him an outfit that fits?
970
00:49:01,712 --> 00:49:07,093
Yeah, that was an interesting choice
that a large part of his body is exposed.
971
00:49:07,176 --> 00:49:09,637
Or I'm into it
'cause it's body positivity.
972
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:11,305
-Ooh, I like that. Okay, yeah.
-You know?
973
00:49:11,389 --> 00:49:14,433
He's a little overweight so he's
just like, "I'm gonna show my body."
974
00:49:14,517 --> 00:49:17,269
-I do like showing off a bit of fur.
-Right? I like it.
975
00:49:17,353 --> 00:49:19,063
That's a bazooka.
976
00:49:19,146 --> 00:49:21,649
Let's go a different way.
I don't think that's a bazooka.
977
00:49:21,732 --> 00:49:24,110
I think that shoots out what's called
"the bear growl,"
978
00:49:24,193 --> 00:49:25,569
and it's a sonic weapon.
979
00:49:26,362 --> 00:49:28,531
-Tell me more, okay. Yeah.
-You know what I'm saying?
980
00:49:28,614 --> 00:49:30,741
-So it shoots out a--
-Just a shock wave of--
981
00:49:30,825 --> 00:49:34,161
Shock wave of sound.
That way there's no blowback on the bicep.
982
00:49:34,245 --> 00:49:35,246
Oh, I like that.
983
00:49:35,329 --> 00:49:37,748
And maybe that's what--
when he gets to X...
984
00:49:37,832 --> 00:49:39,250
-He can shoot out--
-He's ready to go.
985
00:49:39,333 --> 00:49:41,794
-Maybe it's a roar. Like-- [growls]
-The big growl. Yeah. [growls]
986
00:49:41,877 --> 00:49:44,755
-[Funches] Did you draw this?
-[Scheer] I did not draw this.
987
00:49:44,839 --> 00:49:45,923
If you did I was like,
988
00:49:46,006 --> 00:49:49,427
"I got some questions that
we could ask your therapist."
989
00:49:50,469 --> 00:49:52,138
[Bloom] I guess my ultimate no would be
990
00:49:52,221 --> 00:49:55,599
if they can just rip open someone
with their teeth, why are they robots?
991
00:49:55,683 --> 00:49:59,353
What if I told you his teeth were knives?
992
00:50:02,606 --> 00:50:04,692
Actually that solves it.
That solves it for me.