1 00:00:07,250 --> 00:00:09,667 Whatever was going on could not be legal or good. 2 00:00:09,750 --> 00:00:10,792 This can't be real. 3 00:00:11,750 --> 00:00:13,750 We were just shocked. 4 00:00:14,750 --> 00:00:16,875 If it wasn't for her, he's alive today. 5 00:00:17,250 --> 00:00:19,166 PROSECUTOR: She used Conrad as a pawn 6 00:00:19,250 --> 00:00:21,000 in her sick game of life and death. 7 00:00:21,083 --> 00:00:22,125 If you want the truth, 8 00:00:22,208 --> 00:00:23,959 you have to let all the evidence come forth. 9 00:00:24,583 --> 00:00:27,333 LAWYER: This case, it's not about the defendant's race... 10 00:00:27,417 --> 00:00:28,709 I have nothing to hide. 11 00:00:28,792 --> 00:00:32,458 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYS, CONCLUDES) ♪ 12 00:01:05,917 --> 00:01:08,333 ♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 13 00:01:22,250 --> 00:01:23,333 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 14 00:01:25,667 --> 00:01:26,709 (BIRDS SQUAWK) 15 00:01:31,166 --> 00:01:32,333 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 16 00:02:09,208 --> 00:02:10,667 The trial of a Plainville woman 17 00:02:10,750 --> 00:02:13,375 accused of encouraging her friend to kill himself 18 00:02:13,458 --> 00:02:15,667 through text messages is now underway. 19 00:02:15,750 --> 00:02:18,125 NEWS ANCHOR: Michelle Carter is on trial for manslaughter 20 00:02:18,208 --> 00:02:20,625 to decide if text messages she sent 21 00:02:20,709 --> 00:02:22,000 crossed a legal line 22 00:02:22,083 --> 00:02:23,792 and whether she should be held responsible 23 00:02:23,875 --> 00:02:26,583 for her boyfriend's decision to take his own life. 24 00:02:28,875 --> 00:02:31,041 MARYCLARE FLYNN: "His death was my fault. 25 00:02:31,125 --> 00:02:32,875 I could have stopped him. 26 00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:34,542 I was on the phone with him, 27 00:02:34,625 --> 00:02:38,000 and he got out of the car because it was working. 28 00:02:38,083 --> 00:02:39,959 He got scared, 29 00:02:40,041 --> 00:02:43,083 and I fucking told him to get back in." 30 00:02:44,291 --> 00:02:46,083 The defendant's own words. 31 00:02:46,166 --> 00:02:47,959 Seventeen-year-old Michelle Carter, 32 00:02:48,041 --> 00:02:50,834 who, for weeks, badgered-- berated-- 33 00:02:50,917 --> 00:02:54,000 her depressed boyfriend Conrad Roy, 18 years old, 34 00:02:54,083 --> 00:02:55,959 into killing himself. 35 00:02:56,041 --> 00:02:59,500 And on July 12, 2014, 36 00:02:59,583 --> 00:03:02,625 as his truck was filling with carbon monoxide, 37 00:03:02,709 --> 00:03:04,375 he was scared. 38 00:03:04,458 --> 00:03:05,625 He got out. 39 00:03:06,834 --> 00:03:09,041 It was the defendant, 40 00:03:09,125 --> 00:03:13,000 on the other end of the phone, who ordered him back in, 41 00:03:13,083 --> 00:03:15,333 then listened for 20 minutes 42 00:03:15,417 --> 00:03:16,792 as he cried in pain, 43 00:03:16,875 --> 00:03:19,250 took his last breaths, and died. 44 00:03:20,834 --> 00:03:23,792 She assisted and devised and advised 45 00:03:23,875 --> 00:03:25,333 and planned his suicide. 46 00:03:25,417 --> 00:03:27,834 She reasoned him out of his reservations. 47 00:03:27,917 --> 00:03:29,542 She told him that once he was dead, 48 00:03:29,625 --> 00:03:31,208 he would be free and happy. 49 00:03:31,291 --> 00:03:34,709 She pushed him to kill himself sooner rather than later. 50 00:03:34,792 --> 00:03:39,834 And she used Conrad as a pawn in her sick game of life and death. 51 00:03:42,208 --> 00:03:44,917 ♪ ("COME FIND ME" BY EMILE HAYNIE FEAT. LYKKE LI & ROMY PLAYS) ♪ 52 00:03:53,583 --> 00:03:54,959 ♪ I fall ♪ 53 00:03:56,291 --> 00:03:57,625 ♪ I fall ♪ 54 00:03:58,917 --> 00:04:02,166 ♪ Deeper than ever ♪ 55 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:04,917 ♪ I call ♪ 56 00:04:05,709 --> 00:04:07,458 ♪ I call ♪ 57 00:04:08,542 --> 00:04:11,959 ♪ Baby, come find me ♪ 58 00:04:12,959 --> 00:04:14,333 ♪ I fall ♪ 59 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:17,166 ♪ I fall ♪ 60 00:04:18,166 --> 00:04:21,333 ♪ Deeper than ever ♪ 61 00:04:22,875 --> 00:04:24,166 ♪ I call ♪ 62 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,375 ♪ I call ♪ 63 00:04:27,750 --> 00:04:31,000 ♪ Baby, come find me ♪ 64 00:04:32,583 --> 00:04:35,542 ♪ Baby, come find me ♪ 65 00:04:37,375 --> 00:04:40,500 ♪ Baby, come find me ♪ 66 00:04:41,375 --> 00:04:43,208 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 67 00:04:49,125 --> 00:04:50,667 (RADIO BEEPS) 68 00:04:50,750 --> 00:04:53,125 POLICE DISPATCHER: 818 to all cars in station.... 69 00:04:53,208 --> 00:04:56,709 (CONTINUES) 70 00:05:06,208 --> 00:05:08,625 LYNN ROY: He never was the type of kid 71 00:05:08,709 --> 00:05:10,208 to not ever come home. 72 00:05:11,208 --> 00:05:12,667 So... 73 00:05:12,750 --> 00:05:15,750 I knew that morning that there was something... 74 00:05:17,291 --> 00:05:18,458 wrong. 75 00:05:18,542 --> 00:05:21,667 And I felt this rush go through my body 76 00:05:21,750 --> 00:05:24,333 that I've never felt in my life. 77 00:05:24,417 --> 00:05:26,875 And I felt like he just passed through me. 78 00:05:28,792 --> 00:05:30,625 I've never felt that feeling in my life. 79 00:05:30,709 --> 00:05:34,417 It was just, like, the most chilling feeling. 80 00:05:35,625 --> 00:05:38,250 POLICE DISPATCHER: 81 00:05:44,917 --> 00:05:46,458 POLICE OFFICER: Stand by. I'm looking for it. 82 00:05:46,542 --> 00:05:48,709 -I have it in here somewhere. -(RADIO BEEPS) 83 00:05:50,291 --> 00:05:51,959 We were sitting on the porch right here, 84 00:05:52,041 --> 00:05:53,500 and, um... 85 00:05:53,583 --> 00:05:55,083 a friend of the family... 86 00:05:57,417 --> 00:05:59,417 called my dad and... (SNIFFLES) 87 00:05:59,500 --> 00:06:02,166 told him that his truck had, uh, caution tape around it 88 00:06:02,250 --> 00:06:04,417 at the, uh, Fairhaven K-Mart. 89 00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:07,375 And we, uh, got in the car and drove over there. 90 00:06:08,208 --> 00:06:11,667 POLICE DISPATCHER 2: 91 00:06:11,750 --> 00:06:12,959 ...please. 92 00:06:17,458 --> 00:06:20,083 CAROLYN MCGONAGLE: We pulled into the K-Mart parking lot 93 00:06:20,166 --> 00:06:22,375 and you saw the truck and you saw the yellow tape. 94 00:06:22,458 --> 00:06:23,792 And he just put it in park, 95 00:06:23,875 --> 00:06:25,083 he's like, "I can't go up there." 96 00:06:27,208 --> 00:06:31,041 Conrad Sr. was driving back out, 97 00:06:31,125 --> 00:06:32,959 and he pulled up next to Co, 98 00:06:33,041 --> 00:06:38,083 and he just said, "He's gone, Co. He's dead." 99 00:06:38,166 --> 00:06:41,542 (SNIFFLES) And he-- Co just broke down, 100 00:06:41,625 --> 00:06:43,792 and we both... (SIGHS) 101 00:06:43,875 --> 00:06:46,500 It was just like, "He's dead. He did it." 102 00:06:51,834 --> 00:06:54,250 CONRAD ROY JR: It was horrible. I just... 103 00:06:56,375 --> 00:06:57,667 just went and cried... 104 00:06:58,959 --> 00:07:00,458 like, you know... 105 00:07:00,542 --> 00:07:01,709 for days. 106 00:07:03,917 --> 00:07:05,959 INTERVIEWER: Did you go to the K-Mart? 107 00:07:07,458 --> 00:07:08,875 No. Mm-mm. 108 00:07:10,959 --> 00:07:15,000 I think if I would have saw him or been with his body, 109 00:07:15,083 --> 00:07:16,959 it would-- I don't think I would've left. 110 00:07:19,667 --> 00:07:20,792 I am, um... 111 00:07:42,917 --> 00:07:44,792 SCOTT GORDON: Generally, in cases where 112 00:07:44,875 --> 00:07:46,291 there is an untimely passing, 113 00:07:46,375 --> 00:07:48,375 we review dispatch logs, police logs. 114 00:07:48,458 --> 00:07:49,875 It's for us to keep up and see 115 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:52,792 if there's anything we have to follow up on. 116 00:07:52,875 --> 00:07:56,583 I came across their reports related to Conrad Roy's death. 117 00:07:59,709 --> 00:08:01,625 Collectively, within our office our thought was, 118 00:08:01,709 --> 00:08:04,208 you know, why would someone 18 years old take his own life? 119 00:08:10,875 --> 00:08:13,792 Everyone's life is within their phone these days. 120 00:08:13,875 --> 00:08:16,083 At the time in which Conrad was located, 121 00:08:16,166 --> 00:08:17,250 his phone was dead. 122 00:08:17,333 --> 00:08:18,667 So, there was this-- some discussion 123 00:08:18,750 --> 00:08:20,291 as to whether or not to take it or not. 124 00:08:20,375 --> 00:08:21,917 But the people assigned to the case that day 125 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,834 decided to-- to take the phone. 126 00:08:23,917 --> 00:08:25,500 And there wasn't-- at that point, 127 00:08:25,583 --> 00:08:27,333 it didn't seem like there was a ton of reason 128 00:08:27,417 --> 00:08:29,625 to get into the phone other than to try to come up with an answer 129 00:08:29,709 --> 00:08:31,875 of why an 18-year-old-boy would have killed himself. 130 00:08:31,959 --> 00:08:34,709 No one knew about what had actually occurred. 131 00:08:37,667 --> 00:08:39,166 GORDON: I opened the phone, 132 00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:41,667 and I went right to the message part of the phone, 133 00:08:41,750 --> 00:08:43,333 and there was only thread open. 134 00:08:43,417 --> 00:08:46,458 And it said Michelle Carter, at which time I had no idea 135 00:08:46,542 --> 00:08:47,583 that meant anything. 136 00:08:47,667 --> 00:08:49,166 Uh, and then when I clicked on-- 137 00:08:49,250 --> 00:08:51,166 to open that actual conversation, 138 00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:55,000 it was quickly where I realized that the text messages were 139 00:08:55,083 --> 00:08:56,500 disturbing in nature. 140 00:08:56,583 --> 00:08:57,792 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 141 00:09:09,542 --> 00:09:11,500 GORDON: Glenn was sitting across from me at his desk, 142 00:09:11,583 --> 00:09:12,875 and at one point, I was like, 143 00:09:12,959 --> 00:09:14,542 "Guys," you know, "you gotta see this." 144 00:09:14,625 --> 00:09:16,792 And as I continued to read is when we, uh, 145 00:09:16,875 --> 00:09:19,542 ended up thinking that we should probably contact 146 00:09:19,625 --> 00:09:21,083 the DA's office just to let them know 147 00:09:21,166 --> 00:09:22,959 -what we had found. -(TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 148 00:09:28,333 --> 00:09:31,166 GORDON: It was just constant encouragement 149 00:09:31,250 --> 00:09:32,458 to take his life. 150 00:09:33,667 --> 00:09:35,375 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 151 00:09:35,458 --> 00:09:37,834 GORDON: Almost demanding that he take his life. 152 00:09:38,834 --> 00:09:39,959 It was awful. 153 00:09:40,041 --> 00:09:41,250 It was awful to think 154 00:09:41,333 --> 00:09:43,542 that there was somebody that could actually 155 00:09:43,625 --> 00:09:45,834 push somebody towards suicide like that, 156 00:09:45,917 --> 00:09:47,208 especially someone that young. 157 00:09:47,291 --> 00:09:49,375 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 158 00:09:49,458 --> 00:09:51,125 GLENN CUDMORE: At that point, the big thing 159 00:09:51,208 --> 00:09:52,834 was trying to figure out who Michelle Carter was. 160 00:10:08,792 --> 00:10:10,792 GORDON: It is 5:51 on October 2nd. 161 00:10:10,875 --> 00:10:13,291 We're talking to Michelle Carter at King Philip High School. 162 00:10:13,375 --> 00:10:15,125 Um, Michelle, the reason why we came out here is 163 00:10:15,208 --> 00:10:17,959 we were looking into Conrad's unfortunate passing. 164 00:10:18,041 --> 00:10:19,709 -All right? -MICHELLE CARTER: Yeah. 165 00:10:19,792 --> 00:10:21,291 GORDON: Um, did you have contact with him 166 00:10:21,375 --> 00:10:24,375 the day right up until he-- he-- he passed? 167 00:10:24,458 --> 00:10:26,000 -MICHELLE: Mm-hmm. -GORDON: Did you-- 168 00:10:26,083 --> 00:10:27,959 Do you think you had contact with him that day? 169 00:10:28,041 --> 00:10:29,625 MICHELLE: Um... 170 00:10:29,709 --> 00:10:32,250 GORDON: Yeah? Did he-- did he tell you 171 00:10:32,333 --> 00:10:34,208 he was gonna do that or anything like that? 172 00:10:34,291 --> 00:10:35,375 MICHELLE: Um... 173 00:10:39,250 --> 00:10:40,875 -GORDON: Yeah? -MICHELLE: And... 174 00:10:49,208 --> 00:10:50,333 GORDON: Mm-hmm. 175 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,208 MICHELLE: 176 00:11:12,542 --> 00:11:15,208 -GORDON: What would? -MICHELLE: Of like just... 177 00:11:17,667 --> 00:11:20,000 GORDON: Okay. 178 00:11:20,083 --> 00:11:23,291 Is that-- is that your phone? Is that the phone you had? 179 00:11:23,375 --> 00:11:25,792 MICHELLE: Yeah. It's my phone. It's kind of broken. 180 00:11:25,875 --> 00:11:27,000 GORDON: Oh, it is? 181 00:11:27,083 --> 00:11:28,500 MICHELLE: Uh, well, the screen-- 182 00:11:28,583 --> 00:11:30,166 GORDON: Is this password protected? 183 00:11:30,250 --> 00:11:31,875 MICHELLE: Yeah. 184 00:11:31,959 --> 00:11:33,542 GORDON: What's-- Do you know the password so I can... 185 00:11:33,625 --> 00:11:34,709 MICHELLE: Um... 186 00:11:38,083 --> 00:11:39,125 Here you go. 187 00:11:39,917 --> 00:11:40,959 GORDON: Um... 188 00:11:43,959 --> 00:11:46,834 Okay? So, we'll be taking it. 189 00:11:46,917 --> 00:11:49,542 MICHELLE: Wait, so... you're taking my phone? 190 00:11:49,625 --> 00:11:50,625 GORDON: Yes. 191 00:11:50,709 --> 00:11:52,041 MICHELLE: Do I get it back? 192 00:11:52,125 --> 00:11:54,208 GORDON: At some point, you will, yeah. 193 00:11:54,291 --> 00:11:55,792 -MICHELLE: Okay. -GORDON: Okay? 194 00:12:00,583 --> 00:12:03,875 CUDMORE: Her phone download was approximately 60,000 items. 195 00:12:03,959 --> 00:12:06,834 There was pictures, there was voicemails, 196 00:12:06,917 --> 00:12:09,542 there was call logs, there was text messages, 197 00:12:09,625 --> 00:12:11,875 chats through Facebook. 198 00:12:11,959 --> 00:12:14,750 We each grabbed a copy of it and went home at night 199 00:12:14,834 --> 00:12:17,583 and read about a thousand text messages each. 200 00:12:17,667 --> 00:12:19,166 And we came back the next morning, 201 00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:21,667 and I still remember that we looked at each other, 202 00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:23,709 and I don't know if I said it first 203 00:12:23,792 --> 00:12:25,917 or he said it first, but it was... 204 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,333 "If it wasn't for her, he's alive today." 205 00:12:28,417 --> 00:12:30,291 I think at that point we really realized 206 00:12:30,375 --> 00:12:33,250 that we had something that was criminal. 207 00:12:33,333 --> 00:12:35,625 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 208 00:12:51,959 --> 00:12:54,667 JUDGE: Court's in session. Be seated. Please remain quiet. 209 00:12:54,750 --> 00:12:58,542 MCGONAGLE: When she arrested and the texts came out, 210 00:12:58,625 --> 00:13:01,250 we were just shocked. 211 00:13:01,333 --> 00:13:04,083 I mean, it was just so heinous. 212 00:13:04,166 --> 00:13:07,291 "When are you gonna do it? Stop ignoring the question. 213 00:13:07,375 --> 00:13:10,417 Question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark. 214 00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:13,709 You can't keep pushing it off. Are you gonna do it tonight?" 215 00:13:13,792 --> 00:13:15,375 And she keeps at him, Your Honor. 216 00:13:15,458 --> 00:13:18,458 At him and at him to do it. 217 00:13:18,542 --> 00:13:20,041 BECKI MAKI: It was almost the same feeling 218 00:13:20,125 --> 00:13:21,458 as finding out that he died. 219 00:13:21,542 --> 00:13:23,417 It's like an out-of-body experience. 220 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:25,625 Like reading it, it's like, "This can't be real. 221 00:13:25,709 --> 00:13:27,125 Is this-- Am I dreaming?" 222 00:13:27,208 --> 00:13:28,709 It's like reading a novel, or-- 223 00:13:28,792 --> 00:13:31,667 It's not something that happens in your family. 224 00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:35,041 MCGONAGLE: The more we read, it was just like... 225 00:13:35,125 --> 00:13:37,000 "You've got to be kidding." 226 00:13:37,083 --> 00:13:38,792 We want to rip her face off right now. 227 00:13:38,875 --> 00:13:40,291 Like, we are so angry. 228 00:13:40,375 --> 00:13:42,583 NEWS ANCHOR 2: Carter was sending hundreds of texts 229 00:13:42,667 --> 00:13:44,291 urging the teen to kill himself 230 00:13:44,375 --> 00:13:46,083 right up until his final moments. 231 00:13:46,166 --> 00:13:48,959 Carter encouraged and even guided Roy. 232 00:13:49,041 --> 00:13:51,166 That really caught a lot of people's attention. 233 00:13:51,250 --> 00:13:52,875 "Go ahead and do it. 234 00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:54,458 Do it, babe. 235 00:13:54,542 --> 00:13:56,625 Why haven't you done it yet?" 236 00:13:56,709 --> 00:14:00,000 What is that puss on her face? 237 00:14:00,083 --> 00:14:02,000 Hold on. Back it up, Liz. 238 00:14:02,083 --> 00:14:04,542 Okay, hold everything. 239 00:14:06,166 --> 00:14:08,709 NEWS ANCHOR 3: Police say at one point, before Roy died, 240 00:14:08,792 --> 00:14:10,792 he got scared, got out of the truck, 241 00:14:10,875 --> 00:14:12,834 and called Carter. 242 00:14:12,917 --> 00:14:14,542 Carter told him to get back in. 243 00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:29,583 Hi. This is Conrad Roy. 244 00:14:29,667 --> 00:14:32,417 And I'm gonna talk to you about social anxiety. 245 00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:36,709 For me, social anxiety feels... 246 00:14:36,792 --> 00:14:39,041 like it's overwhelming my life. 247 00:14:39,125 --> 00:14:43,917 Like, everything does not revolve around me. 248 00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:50,166 And now I want to take steps to control it. 249 00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:52,458 And the first thing I want to do... 250 00:14:53,917 --> 00:14:57,083 is be more proactive 251 00:14:57,875 --> 00:14:59,291 in a social environment, 252 00:15:00,375 --> 00:15:02,750 try to contribute to conversation 253 00:15:02,834 --> 00:15:04,083 as well as I can, 254 00:15:06,458 --> 00:15:10,333 and just be more confident in myself 255 00:15:10,417 --> 00:15:12,083 and my ability to... 256 00:15:13,625 --> 00:15:15,333 retract my knowledge. 257 00:15:15,417 --> 00:15:18,375 'Cause I-- I feel like I'm a smart man. 258 00:15:19,834 --> 00:15:21,333 I'm 18 years old, 259 00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:27,834 and I still haven't recovered from social anxiety, depression. 260 00:15:27,917 --> 00:15:29,333 It's controlling me. 261 00:15:35,917 --> 00:15:40,250 A lot of people tell me that I have a lot going for me. 262 00:15:40,333 --> 00:15:43,917 I have to be happy, I have to be happy. 263 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,166 Well, no, you don't have to be happy. 264 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:52,959 There's people that love me. 265 00:15:53,041 --> 00:15:54,375 I have a great mom. 266 00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:58,500 Great dad, for the most part. 267 00:16:01,542 --> 00:16:03,083 But I'm so depressed. 268 00:16:05,875 --> 00:16:10,041 Feel like I'm differently wired from everyone else. 269 00:16:10,125 --> 00:16:12,709 Like there's something wrong with me. 270 00:16:12,792 --> 00:16:17,041 The serotonin in my head is gone. 271 00:16:17,125 --> 00:16:20,083 And to replace it with dopamine, or... 272 00:16:20,166 --> 00:16:21,875 another controlled substance, 273 00:16:21,959 --> 00:16:26,208 but if I keep talking-- keep talking-- 274 00:16:26,291 --> 00:16:27,917 it's gonna get better. 275 00:16:29,542 --> 00:16:32,208 (WAVES LAPPING) 276 00:16:35,041 --> 00:16:37,417 CONRAD ROY SR: (SINGING) ♪ We love you, Conrad ♪ 277 00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:38,959 ♪ Oh, yes, we do ♪ 278 00:16:39,041 --> 00:16:40,875 ♪ We love you, Conrad ♪ 279 00:16:40,959 --> 00:16:42,417 ♪ And we'll be true ♪ 280 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:44,291 ♪ When you're not near us ♪ 281 00:16:44,375 --> 00:16:46,000 ♪ We're blue ♪ 282 00:16:46,083 --> 00:16:50,291 ♪ Oh, Conrad, we love you ♪ 283 00:16:50,375 --> 00:16:54,834 My son, when he was born, he was the first one hatched. 284 00:16:54,917 --> 00:16:57,250 And we named-- I said, "Oh my God, 285 00:16:57,333 --> 00:16:59,667 He looks just like me. Another Conrad." 286 00:16:59,750 --> 00:17:05,625 And then when Co, my son, had his son, first one, 287 00:17:05,709 --> 00:17:08,291 he says, "Oh my God, he looks like just me." 288 00:17:08,375 --> 00:17:10,875 And we named him Conrad. 289 00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:13,917 When they came out of the hospital with C3, 290 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,083 they brought him down to the shipyard 291 00:17:16,166 --> 00:17:18,333 where I was getting ready to leave. 292 00:17:18,417 --> 00:17:20,417 And at three days old, 293 00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:22,166 I had him in my hand, 294 00:17:22,250 --> 00:17:24,709 and we did an assist job bringing a tanker 295 00:17:24,792 --> 00:17:26,291 into New Bedford. 296 00:17:27,250 --> 00:17:28,750 We've got pictures of him, 297 00:17:28,834 --> 00:17:30,417 even when it was a little ship, 298 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:34,000 that, uh, he was there. I mean, you know... 299 00:17:34,083 --> 00:17:36,792 not really knowing what to do or how to do it, 300 00:17:36,875 --> 00:17:38,625 but he was there. 301 00:17:38,709 --> 00:17:40,709 And it's, um... 302 00:17:40,792 --> 00:17:42,959 I've had some great memories of that. 303 00:17:44,750 --> 00:17:46,667 (SOBBING) Some real great memories. 304 00:17:47,709 --> 00:17:50,417 And... I'm sorry. 305 00:17:53,125 --> 00:17:54,458 ♪ (GENTLE MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 306 00:18:03,959 --> 00:18:06,291 CONRAD ROY JR: Our family, we, uh, work in the water 307 00:18:06,375 --> 00:18:07,542 and we play in the water. 308 00:18:09,208 --> 00:18:11,667 When he was younger, he definitely liked, um, 309 00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:13,083 being on the sailboats 310 00:18:13,166 --> 00:18:15,000 and being in, like, the pleasure boats. 311 00:18:16,125 --> 00:18:17,458 When he got a little bit older, 312 00:18:17,542 --> 00:18:19,083 we would take him on some salvage jobs. 313 00:18:19,166 --> 00:18:20,834 And then, in his, like, junior year, 314 00:18:20,917 --> 00:18:23,125 he worked with me full time. 315 00:18:27,792 --> 00:18:31,208 I suppose it wasn't the same since we got, you know, 316 00:18:31,291 --> 00:18:32,667 divorced, you know? 317 00:18:34,625 --> 00:18:38,500 It was a little-- It was different for all of us, so... 318 00:18:39,834 --> 00:18:42,542 I mean, every child, um... 319 00:18:42,625 --> 00:18:45,083 has difficulty with a divorce. 320 00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:46,875 They always ultimately 321 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,709 want their parents to be together. 322 00:18:49,792 --> 00:18:52,041 ROY JR: It was during high school, um, 323 00:18:52,125 --> 00:18:53,834 and it was when, like, 324 00:18:53,917 --> 00:18:55,709 he started school back up again. 325 00:18:55,792 --> 00:18:59,083 We didn't notice it right away, but his grades were slipping 326 00:18:59,166 --> 00:19:00,750 and he was saying he was having, 327 00:19:00,834 --> 00:19:02,917 like, a tough time staying focused, 328 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,166 and, um... 329 00:19:06,542 --> 00:19:08,959 He said he-- he said he was having, like, racing thoughts, 330 00:19:09,041 --> 00:19:11,417 and he said he was, like, losing his memory. 331 00:19:14,583 --> 00:19:16,709 We were bringing him to, uh, 332 00:19:16,792 --> 00:19:19,917 you know, all these doctors and, you know, psychiatrists, 333 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,709 and trying to figure out, you know, what was going wrong. 334 00:19:24,208 --> 00:19:27,041 If my kids are happy, I'm happy. 335 00:19:27,125 --> 00:19:29,458 So, the fact that my son wasn't... 336 00:19:31,917 --> 00:19:35,250 it destroyed my soul for a while. (SNIFFLES) 337 00:19:35,333 --> 00:19:38,667 What I am doing is... 338 00:19:38,750 --> 00:19:41,792 I'm looking at myself so negatively. 339 00:19:41,875 --> 00:19:45,458 Look at myself, minuscule little particle... 340 00:19:46,792 --> 00:19:48,458 on the face of this earth. 341 00:19:48,542 --> 00:19:52,583 It's no good. Trash. Will never be successful. 342 00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:54,917 It was really tough to watch him go through that. 343 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,750 (SOBBING) 344 00:19:59,166 --> 00:20:00,500 Like, he didn't-- 345 00:20:00,583 --> 00:20:02,000 he didn't know what to, like, 346 00:20:02,083 --> 00:20:04,792 who to sit with at school at times, and, uh... 347 00:20:04,875 --> 00:20:08,125 It's just heartbreaking as a parent. 348 00:20:08,208 --> 00:20:10,041 (SIGHS) 349 00:20:10,125 --> 00:20:12,250 And then, you know, some kids would pick on him, 350 00:20:12,333 --> 00:20:13,917 you know, and uh... 351 00:20:16,041 --> 00:20:20,125 Listen. (YAWNS) 352 00:20:23,166 --> 00:20:25,667 I just have to get the cobwebs out. 353 00:20:27,083 --> 00:20:29,083 Turn the gears. 354 00:20:29,166 --> 00:20:31,500 The gears need to be turning. 355 00:20:32,125 --> 00:20:33,417 Turn them gears. 356 00:20:35,458 --> 00:20:37,458 (CHUCKLING) That's what I gotta do. 357 00:20:38,792 --> 00:20:40,250 I wish that... 358 00:20:41,458 --> 00:20:44,500 I would have seen more. 359 00:20:44,583 --> 00:20:47,417 I wish I would've picked up more signs 360 00:20:48,458 --> 00:20:50,625 that week, that day. 361 00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:57,208 If I knew he was feeling or thinking that way, 362 00:20:57,291 --> 00:21:01,125 yeah, I would have had him handcuffed to, probably to a uh, 363 00:21:01,208 --> 00:21:05,166 to my car and brought him to a hospital. 364 00:21:07,208 --> 00:21:08,834 But he just, like-- 365 00:21:08,917 --> 00:21:11,041 I just thought he was doing well. 366 00:21:11,125 --> 00:21:13,375 ROY JR: He seemed like he was just on the right track. 367 00:21:13,458 --> 00:21:16,500 It seemed like everything was, like, getting better. 368 00:21:17,291 --> 00:21:21,250 Um... And he was, um, 369 00:21:21,333 --> 00:21:23,250 you know, able to get his captain's license 370 00:21:23,333 --> 00:21:24,417 and he was, like, 371 00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,709 seemed to be like really wanting to, uh, 372 00:21:26,792 --> 00:21:29,000 you know, learn, like, the business. 373 00:21:30,291 --> 00:21:33,083 ROY SR: I mean, when he came in the living room 374 00:21:33,166 --> 00:21:35,417 and he-- he-- 375 00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:38,208 (VOICE BREAKING) He shows me his captain's license, 376 00:21:38,291 --> 00:21:40,959 and it was like, "You must be shitting me, Co." 377 00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:42,375 You know, I mean, 378 00:21:42,458 --> 00:21:45,000 not that I was one to shy on words, but I mean... 379 00:21:45,083 --> 00:21:47,583 I said, "Are you shitting me? 380 00:21:47,667 --> 00:21:48,959 You got it already?" 381 00:21:49,041 --> 00:21:51,583 He says, "Yeah, look at it." You know? 382 00:21:51,667 --> 00:21:56,792 That was-- It was just a few weeks before he-- he died. 383 00:21:56,875 --> 00:21:59,375 INTERVIEWER: What caused Conrad's death? 384 00:22:04,834 --> 00:22:07,208 I would say-- I would say it's Michelle Carter. 385 00:22:11,834 --> 00:22:12,917 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 386 00:22:24,542 --> 00:22:26,709 ♪ (MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 387 00:22:33,125 --> 00:22:35,000 CAMDYN ROY: They met in Florida, 388 00:22:35,083 --> 00:22:37,750 when we were visiting my great aunt. 389 00:22:37,834 --> 00:22:39,750 She has a place down there, 390 00:22:39,834 --> 00:22:42,875 like, this country club type thing, 391 00:22:42,959 --> 00:22:45,917 and her-- Michelle's grandparents do too. 392 00:22:46,750 --> 00:22:48,709 Um, and they were friends. 393 00:22:48,792 --> 00:22:53,000 Like, so, like, February vacation, 394 00:22:53,083 --> 00:22:55,750 when Michelle's family and my family-- 395 00:22:55,834 --> 00:22:59,166 well, Conrad's family-- were both down there, 396 00:22:59,250 --> 00:23:03,667 my aunt introduced Michelle and Conrad to each other. 397 00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,375 And like, I don't know, 398 00:23:06,458 --> 00:23:07,917 they went, like, on a bike ride together. 399 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,375 ♪ (MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 400 00:23:09,458 --> 00:23:10,959 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 401 00:23:31,834 --> 00:23:33,959 MARIN COGAN: I would say the relationship between 402 00:23:34,041 --> 00:23:35,875 Michelle Carter and Conrad Roy 403 00:23:35,959 --> 00:23:38,500 is a thoroughly modern romance. Right? 404 00:23:38,583 --> 00:23:41,875 It's a romance conducted almost entirely online. 405 00:23:44,208 --> 00:23:46,917 LYNN: They met maybe five times. 406 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,166 That's why I didn't know they were boyfriend and girlfriend. 407 00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:51,625 I never saw her. 408 00:23:51,709 --> 00:23:54,542 Like, I mean I-- I saw him text her all the time, 409 00:23:54,625 --> 00:23:56,875 you know, on his phone. But... 410 00:23:56,959 --> 00:24:01,792 I didn't think that they had a, um, a relationship like that. 411 00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:04,500 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 412 00:24:04,583 --> 00:24:06,083 COGAN: They had, in fact, 413 00:24:06,166 --> 00:24:07,959 exchanged thousands upon thousands of messages... 414 00:24:08,041 --> 00:24:09,250 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 415 00:24:09,333 --> 00:24:10,875 ...and had this sort of intimacy 416 00:24:10,959 --> 00:24:13,417 without ever really seeing each other. 417 00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:15,834 They're having this secret relationship 418 00:24:15,917 --> 00:24:19,792 that is totally destructive, um, to their mental health. 419 00:24:26,417 --> 00:24:27,834 REPORTER: Attorneys for Michelle Carter 420 00:24:27,917 --> 00:24:29,333 do not deny the evidence. 421 00:24:29,417 --> 00:24:31,291 They do not deny the text messages, et cetera. 422 00:24:31,375 --> 00:24:33,291 Instead, what they say is that even though 423 00:24:33,375 --> 00:24:35,458 her conduct may be reprehensible, 424 00:24:35,542 --> 00:24:37,417 they say it is not criminal, and therefore, 425 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:39,625 she should not be charged with manslaughter 426 00:24:39,709 --> 00:24:42,041 in connection with the suicide of her boyfriend. 427 00:24:43,667 --> 00:24:46,625 Whether it's the right thing, the wrong thing, 428 00:24:46,709 --> 00:24:48,583 the moral thing, the immoral thing, 429 00:24:48,667 --> 00:24:51,500 what I'm certain of is it wasn't a crime. 430 00:24:53,834 --> 00:24:56,000 There's no law that criminalizes 431 00:24:56,083 --> 00:24:58,125 encouragement of suicide in Massachusetts, 432 00:24:58,208 --> 00:25:00,458 and now the district attorney's office says, 433 00:25:00,542 --> 00:25:02,500 even though our legislature 434 00:25:02,583 --> 00:25:05,250 has not criminalized that behavior with the law, 435 00:25:05,333 --> 00:25:08,375 we're gonna prosecute her with a homicide. 436 00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:12,917 The idea that your speech alone 437 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,166 in the way of text messages and words in the telephone 438 00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:18,333 can equal a manslaughter charge, 439 00:25:18,417 --> 00:25:21,375 I think, is a dangerous, dangerous precedent. 440 00:25:28,458 --> 00:25:32,583 COURT CLERK: SJC-12043. Commonwealth V Michelle Carter. 441 00:25:33,542 --> 00:25:35,000 Good morning. 442 00:25:35,083 --> 00:25:36,792 JUDGE: Good morning, Mr. Curhan. Why don't you get us going? 443 00:25:36,875 --> 00:25:39,166 We contend that verbally encouraging someone 444 00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:43,125 to commit suicide, no matter how forceful the encouragement, 445 00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:45,875 does not constitute a crime in Massachusetts. 446 00:25:45,959 --> 00:25:48,458 Judge 1: So, the person has a gun 447 00:25:48,542 --> 00:25:52,041 and says, "I am going to kill myself." 448 00:25:52,125 --> 00:25:54,000 Right? And you're saying, "Good." 449 00:25:54,083 --> 00:25:55,458 CURHAN: Yes. 450 00:25:55,542 --> 00:25:57,875 "Good, good. Go for it, do it." "Ah, I don't know." 451 00:25:57,959 --> 00:26:01,000 "No, no. Come on. Come on. Pull the trigger." 452 00:26:01,083 --> 00:26:02,792 Is-- Does that step over the line? 453 00:26:02,875 --> 00:26:05,083 -CURHAN: I don't think so. -Or is that still... okay? 454 00:26:05,166 --> 00:26:07,041 I don't think verbally encouraging someone-- 455 00:26:07,125 --> 00:26:08,709 I don't think that-- I don't think that 456 00:26:08,792 --> 00:26:10,125 -would be a crime. -JUDGE 2: Wait. I mean-- 457 00:26:10,208 --> 00:26:12,041 You mean if somebody solicits a murder? 458 00:26:12,125 --> 00:26:13,375 CURHAN: Uh, if somebody solicits-- 459 00:26:13,458 --> 00:26:14,875 We get that all the time. 460 00:26:14,959 --> 00:26:17,250 That would odd because there's an underlying crime. 461 00:26:17,333 --> 00:26:18,875 -CURHAN: Right. Right. -...of murder. 462 00:26:18,959 --> 00:26:20,375 You see, the-- Part of the problem 463 00:26:20,458 --> 00:26:21,875 is that Massachusetts doesn't-- 464 00:26:21,959 --> 00:26:23,542 is one of eleven states that doesn't have a-- 465 00:26:23,625 --> 00:26:26,959 a statute addressing this-- this type of behavior, 466 00:26:27,041 --> 00:26:28,500 that-- encouraging suicide. 467 00:26:28,583 --> 00:26:30,959 But we do have an involuntary manslaughter statute, 468 00:26:31,041 --> 00:26:33,709 which talks about wanton and reckless conduct 469 00:26:33,792 --> 00:26:37,917 resulting in the death, causing the death, of someone. 470 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,542 And, at some point, 471 00:26:39,625 --> 00:26:43,917 can verbal action become wanton and reckless 472 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,917 if it results in someone's death? 473 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,542 CURHAN: The problem is that, uh, 474 00:26:47,625 --> 00:26:51,792 the death was caused by the victim himself. 475 00:26:51,875 --> 00:26:53,750 He's the one who got the generator, 476 00:26:53,834 --> 00:26:56,208 who drove to the location, who set it up in the truck, 477 00:26:56,291 --> 00:26:58,208 who turned it on, and who got in the truck. 478 00:26:58,291 --> 00:27:01,166 So, I'm in the truck, and I'm dying. 479 00:27:01,250 --> 00:27:03,000 And I deci-- I have to get out. 480 00:27:03,083 --> 00:27:04,083 I get out. 481 00:27:04,166 --> 00:27:06,250 And I call my friend, 482 00:27:06,333 --> 00:27:10,250 and my friend says, "Get back in the truck. 483 00:27:10,333 --> 00:27:11,750 Kill yourself." 484 00:27:11,834 --> 00:27:14,792 That's not enough? That's just talk? 485 00:27:14,875 --> 00:27:16,458 If she was physically present 486 00:27:16,542 --> 00:27:18,500 and she said, "Get back in the truck 487 00:27:18,583 --> 00:27:21,166 or I'll put you back in there myself," 488 00:27:21,250 --> 00:27:23,750 or, here, another example, 489 00:27:23,834 --> 00:27:25,458 standing on the edge of a bridge. 490 00:27:25,542 --> 00:27:28,875 "Jump off that bridge or I will push you." 491 00:27:28,959 --> 00:27:30,583 The, uh, "or I will push you" 492 00:27:30,667 --> 00:27:32,750 would probably take that over the line. 493 00:27:32,834 --> 00:27:34,875 But "jump off the bridge" would not. 494 00:27:34,959 --> 00:27:36,792 It doesn't matter how persistent she is. 495 00:27:36,875 --> 00:27:38,917 It doesn't matter how reprehensible 496 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,667 we might think her conduct is. 497 00:27:40,750 --> 00:27:43,667 It simply isn't a crime, and it was not at the time, 498 00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:47,542 and we can't make it a crime retroactively. 499 00:27:47,625 --> 00:27:49,166 Unless there are any further questions, 500 00:27:49,250 --> 00:27:50,959 I'll leave the remaining points to the brief. 501 00:27:51,041 --> 00:27:52,583 JUDGE 1: Thank you, counselor. 502 00:28:01,208 --> 00:28:03,291 I've been doing this for 25 years now. 503 00:28:03,375 --> 00:28:04,959 I read the law. I understand it. 504 00:28:05,041 --> 00:28:08,250 And it's not a case that should've ever been brought. 505 00:28:08,333 --> 00:28:11,291 And it's gonna have a potential chilling effect 506 00:28:11,375 --> 00:28:12,917 on free speech rights 507 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,834 about whether or not people can openly discuss suicide 508 00:28:15,917 --> 00:28:17,959 and encourage it between loved ones. 509 00:28:18,041 --> 00:28:19,917 This case will set precedent. 510 00:28:22,041 --> 00:28:23,750 EMILY BAZELON: I'm not someone, generally, 511 00:28:23,834 --> 00:28:26,667 who's in favor of expanding the scope of the criminal law, 512 00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:29,083 but I have to say, in reading those messages, 513 00:28:29,166 --> 00:28:31,333 it just seemed clear that 514 00:28:31,417 --> 00:28:33,625 she was trying to exert 515 00:28:33,709 --> 00:28:36,333 some real influence over his behavior. 516 00:28:36,417 --> 00:28:38,291 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 517 00:28:52,291 --> 00:28:53,875 BAZELON: I would really struggle with the question 518 00:28:53,959 --> 00:28:57,000 of whether the kind of psychological pressure 519 00:28:57,083 --> 00:29:01,417 Michelle Carter appeared to be applying and a part of 520 00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:03,375 could have the same impact 521 00:29:03,458 --> 00:29:06,458 as physically assisting someone with the suicide. 522 00:29:09,959 --> 00:29:12,750 CATALDO: She was 40 miles away on a telephone. 523 00:29:12,834 --> 00:29:14,250 He could've stayed out of the car. 524 00:29:14,333 --> 00:29:15,792 He could a hung up the telephone. 525 00:29:15,875 --> 00:29:17,875 So, there's no coercion here. 526 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:53,208 JESSE BARRON: My name is Jesse Barron, 527 00:29:53,291 --> 00:29:54,667 and I covered the Michelle Carter case 528 00:29:54,750 --> 00:29:56,709 for Esquire Magazine. 529 00:29:56,792 --> 00:29:58,291 I read an article about the case 530 00:29:58,375 --> 00:30:01,417 in the South Coast Times in the summer of 2016, 531 00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:05,166 and I went to a pretrial hearing in December. 532 00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:08,500 And I knew that I had to write about it. 533 00:30:12,083 --> 00:30:17,583 On the first day of the trial, I was waiting up outside of-- 534 00:30:17,667 --> 00:30:19,250 We had to pick up our press badges, 535 00:30:19,333 --> 00:30:20,792 and all the media's there kind of waiting 536 00:30:20,875 --> 00:30:22,375 to start the show. 537 00:30:24,208 --> 00:30:26,875 And at some moment, a few minutes after 9:00 AM, 538 00:30:26,959 --> 00:30:29,542 a TV producer whispered, "Is that her?" 539 00:30:29,625 --> 00:30:31,125 And all heads turn. 540 00:30:31,208 --> 00:30:32,667 (CAMERAS CLICK) 541 00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:34,959 Michelle, wearing a white quilted car coat 542 00:30:35,041 --> 00:30:37,250 and high heels, is coming toward us. 543 00:30:37,333 --> 00:30:38,500 (CAMERA CLICKS) 544 00:30:38,583 --> 00:30:40,166 And there was this feeling of a... 545 00:30:40,250 --> 00:30:44,291 weird sort of inverse star power that was put on her. 546 00:30:45,250 --> 00:30:48,166 She was thin. She was blonde. 547 00:30:48,250 --> 00:30:50,875 She was tanning-booth tan. 548 00:30:50,959 --> 00:30:53,375 It felt like she knew she was gonna be photographed. 549 00:30:54,834 --> 00:30:57,500 (COURTROOM CHATTER) 550 00:30:57,583 --> 00:30:59,000 JUDGE MONIZ: Good morning, Miss Carter. 551 00:30:59,083 --> 00:31:00,667 Please remain standing while you are sworn. 552 00:31:00,750 --> 00:31:02,000 Please raise your right hand. 553 00:31:02,083 --> 00:31:03,333 In this matter before the court 554 00:31:03,417 --> 00:31:04,834 do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 555 00:31:04,917 --> 00:31:06,417 and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 556 00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:08,000 I do. 557 00:31:08,083 --> 00:31:09,917 JUDGE MONIZ: Please take a seat and make yourself comfortable. 558 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,166 And please keep your voice up nice and loud. 559 00:31:12,250 --> 00:31:14,375 Please state your full name and age. 560 00:31:15,542 --> 00:31:19,583 Michelle Diana Carter. Uh, 20. 561 00:31:19,667 --> 00:31:21,542 JUDGE MONIZ: So, you understand, Miss Carter, 562 00:31:21,625 --> 00:31:24,709 that you are fully entitled under the Constitution 563 00:31:24,792 --> 00:31:29,500 to a jury of your peers to decide 564 00:31:29,583 --> 00:31:32,834 whether or not you are in fact guilty of this crime? 565 00:31:32,917 --> 00:31:34,375 Yes. 566 00:31:34,458 --> 00:31:36,125 JUDGE MONIZ: That is the right that you are giving up 567 00:31:36,208 --> 00:31:37,333 with your testimony now. 568 00:31:37,417 --> 00:31:38,709 Yes. 569 00:31:38,792 --> 00:31:41,750 JUDGE MONIZ: All right. Has anyone promised you anything 570 00:31:41,834 --> 00:31:44,041 or threatened you in any way 571 00:31:44,125 --> 00:31:47,625 to make you forgo your right to a jury trial? 572 00:31:48,291 --> 00:31:49,625 No. 573 00:31:49,709 --> 00:31:51,375 JUDGE MONIZ: Are you doing that of your own free will, 574 00:31:51,458 --> 00:31:52,667 knowingly and voluntarily? 575 00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:54,375 Yes. 576 00:31:54,458 --> 00:31:55,917 JUDGE MONIZ: All right. Thank you very much. 577 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,083 You may step down. 578 00:31:57,166 --> 00:31:58,250 Thank you. 579 00:32:01,792 --> 00:32:03,667 BOB MCGOVERN: It was a genius defense strategy here, 580 00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:06,250 especially doing it in the eleventh hour, uh, 581 00:32:06,333 --> 00:32:08,542 right before they were supposed to select the jury. 582 00:32:08,625 --> 00:32:12,291 Juries of your peers often don't know the law 583 00:32:12,375 --> 00:32:13,917 as much as they know their own emotions 584 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,291 and how their own emotions are applied to the facts 585 00:32:16,375 --> 00:32:17,542 that are put in front of them. 586 00:32:17,625 --> 00:32:19,917 And sometimes emotions win the day. 587 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,083 This has turned into a matter of law. 588 00:32:23,166 --> 00:32:25,208 So, what Judge Moniz decides here: 589 00:32:25,291 --> 00:32:27,625 This is step one of what is going to be 590 00:32:27,709 --> 00:32:29,875 a ever-evolving area of the law. 591 00:32:29,959 --> 00:32:32,458 Now, prosecutors can show the judge-- 592 00:32:32,542 --> 00:32:35,083 and more importantly, I believe, show the public-- 593 00:32:35,166 --> 00:32:36,667 exactly what happened here. 594 00:32:48,417 --> 00:32:51,041 MARYCLARE FLYNN: I'm gonna be putting on-- on the screen 595 00:32:51,709 --> 00:32:52,750 a photograph. 596 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:00,917 Can you tell us who we're seeing in this photograph? 597 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,166 Conrad. 598 00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:05,333 FLYNN: And how old would Conrad have been 599 00:33:05,417 --> 00:33:06,583 in this photograph? 600 00:33:07,667 --> 00:33:09,417 Eighteen. 601 00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:11,709 FLYNN: I ask that be marked as the next exhibit, please. 602 00:33:11,792 --> 00:33:13,208 JUDGE MONIZ: Is there an objection? 603 00:33:13,291 --> 00:33:14,792 -JOSEPH CATALDO: No. -JUDGE MONIZ: May be marked. 604 00:33:14,875 --> 00:33:16,250 FLYNN: Do you see Michelle Carter 605 00:33:16,333 --> 00:33:17,625 present in the courtroom today? 606 00:33:17,709 --> 00:33:18,792 LYNN: Yes. 607 00:33:18,875 --> 00:33:20,291 FLYNN: Could you please point to her, 608 00:33:20,375 --> 00:33:21,709 identify something that she's wearing? 609 00:33:23,166 --> 00:33:25,083 I don't know. A red shirt, looks like. 610 00:33:25,166 --> 00:33:26,500 FLYNN: Your Honor, may the record reflect 611 00:33:26,583 --> 00:33:27,959 identification of the defendant. 612 00:33:28,041 --> 00:33:30,041 JUDGE MONIZ: Yes, the record may so reflect. 613 00:33:31,875 --> 00:33:35,125 LYNN: It's hard to see someone on the outside 614 00:33:35,208 --> 00:33:37,917 and then know them in the inside. 615 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,000 I don't know, I thought I was pretty... 616 00:33:40,083 --> 00:33:42,500 a pretty good judge of character. 617 00:33:42,583 --> 00:33:46,458 I don't know. But after that? (SCOFF) 618 00:33:46,542 --> 00:33:50,500 I-- I-- It's-- It's very hard for me to... 619 00:33:50,583 --> 00:33:52,750 understand someone, so... 620 00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:01,625 BARRON: Michelle Carter was a suburban girl 621 00:34:01,709 --> 00:34:04,000 from a town called Plainville of 8,000. 622 00:34:05,667 --> 00:34:07,208 She was a good student. 623 00:34:07,291 --> 00:34:11,333 She was a polite, appealing teenager 624 00:34:11,417 --> 00:34:13,542 who adults felt respected by. 625 00:34:13,625 --> 00:34:16,959 So, outwardly, this was, like, as straight white American 626 00:34:17,041 --> 00:34:19,917 suburban teenage life as you can get. 627 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,834 DR. PETER BREGGIN: She was, in this small community, 628 00:34:23,917 --> 00:34:28,667 known as a really sweet, caring young woman. 629 00:34:30,625 --> 00:34:34,375 This was a most unusual child who, for whatever reason, 630 00:34:34,458 --> 00:34:38,792 wanted above all things to be helpful to other people. 631 00:34:41,250 --> 00:34:44,625 But then, when I got to reading all those texts, 632 00:34:44,709 --> 00:34:47,125 I entered another world of Michelle 633 00:34:47,208 --> 00:34:49,083 that I didn't know about. 634 00:34:49,166 --> 00:34:50,375 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 635 00:34:59,333 --> 00:35:01,917 FLYNN: Later on that night, that's when you get 636 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,291 the text message from Michelle Carter? 637 00:35:03,375 --> 00:35:05,917 CAMDYN ROY: (VOICE SHAKING) Yes. 638 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,333 FLYNN: I'm now going to ask you about the 13th. 639 00:35:08,417 --> 00:35:10,083 CAMDYN: (QUIETLY) Okay. 640 00:35:10,166 --> 00:35:12,458 FLYNN: Do you recall getting a text message that said... 641 00:35:12,542 --> 00:35:14,417 -"Find him yet?" -CAMDYN: Mm-hmm. 642 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:15,959 FLYNN: And you replied back, "No." 643 00:35:16,041 --> 00:35:17,583 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 644 00:35:17,667 --> 00:35:20,625 FLYNN: And then, shortly after, Michelle Carter texted you, 645 00:35:20,709 --> 00:35:23,458 "Okay, just stay positive. Let me know." 646 00:35:23,542 --> 00:35:24,750 Do you recall that? 647 00:35:24,834 --> 00:35:26,041 CAMDYN: Mm-hmm. 648 00:35:26,125 --> 00:35:27,709 FLYNN: Had she told you that she was with him 649 00:35:27,792 --> 00:35:29,333 -at all that night? -No. 650 00:35:29,417 --> 00:35:31,041 Did she ever tell you that she'd been on the phone 651 00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:33,041 -with your brother that night? -No. 652 00:35:33,125 --> 00:35:34,500 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 653 00:35:34,583 --> 00:35:36,417 FLYNN: On July 14th, do you recall 654 00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:38,291 getting a text message from Michelle Carter 655 00:35:38,375 --> 00:35:39,667 saying... (READS TEXTS) 656 00:35:48,166 --> 00:35:49,500 -Do you recall that? -Yeah. 657 00:35:49,583 --> 00:35:51,083 FLYNN: Had she ever been to your house before 658 00:35:51,166 --> 00:35:53,041 -that you recall? -No. 659 00:35:53,125 --> 00:35:54,667 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 660 00:35:54,750 --> 00:35:57,458 LYNN: I thought that she really cared about him. 661 00:35:57,542 --> 00:36:00,458 You know, I told her, I said, "I'm so glad 662 00:36:00,542 --> 00:36:05,208 that my son had someone like you in his life." 663 00:36:05,291 --> 00:36:07,041 -(TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) -LYNN: And I thought she was 664 00:36:07,125 --> 00:36:11,959 very, very sweet and compassionate and loving. 665 00:36:12,041 --> 00:36:15,583 I don't know. Why would you ever think that... 666 00:36:15,667 --> 00:36:18,709 someone would think the way she does? 667 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,291 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 668 00:36:30,959 --> 00:36:33,542 FLYNN: After you had told her that his body was cremated, 669 00:36:33,625 --> 00:36:35,417 do you recall she replied to you... 670 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:36,542 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 671 00:36:36,625 --> 00:36:39,041 FLYNN: (READS TEXT) 672 00:36:45,417 --> 00:36:46,792 -CAMDYN: Yes. -FLYNN: Do you recall that? 673 00:36:46,875 --> 00:36:48,959 -CAMDYN: Yes. -Did you think that was odd? 674 00:36:49,041 --> 00:36:50,500 A little. 675 00:36:50,583 --> 00:36:52,458 FLYNN: Were you concerned by that? 676 00:36:53,625 --> 00:36:54,792 CAMDYN: A little. 677 00:36:55,583 --> 00:36:56,834 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 678 00:36:56,917 --> 00:36:59,250 LYNN: She messaged me at some point and said, 679 00:36:59,333 --> 00:37:02,250 "You tried your hardest, I tried my hardest." 680 00:37:02,333 --> 00:37:06,125 I was like, "Well, that's a red flag," you know? 681 00:37:06,208 --> 00:37:07,959 Excuse my language, but... 682 00:37:09,291 --> 00:37:11,041 What the fuck is she talking about? 683 00:37:11,125 --> 00:37:13,250 (CHUCKLES) Like, I tried to save him? 684 00:37:14,458 --> 00:37:16,583 I had no idea he was feeling that way. 685 00:37:20,166 --> 00:37:23,250 It's weird because before he passed, 686 00:37:23,333 --> 00:37:26,667 I told him, I said, "Conrad," I said, "Mom was a teenager. 687 00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:28,834 I know how girls can be. 688 00:37:28,917 --> 00:37:30,959 If you're pretty, they can just smile 689 00:37:31,041 --> 00:37:33,750 and just, you know, bat their eyelashes, 690 00:37:33,834 --> 00:37:36,000 and some boys will be like, 'Woo.'" 691 00:37:36,083 --> 00:37:37,834 So... (CHUCKLES) 692 00:37:37,917 --> 00:37:43,208 I said, "But girls can... can be very manipulative." 693 00:37:43,291 --> 00:37:47,166 And uh, I never believed that my son 694 00:37:47,250 --> 00:37:51,375 would be taken advantage of in the worst way possible. 695 00:37:56,834 --> 00:37:59,291 FLYNN: Who would do this and why? 696 00:37:59,375 --> 00:38:00,959 I would suggest the evidence will show 697 00:38:01,041 --> 00:38:02,834 that the defendant was a very needy person 698 00:38:02,917 --> 00:38:04,834 who craved attention. 699 00:38:04,917 --> 00:38:07,291 But she didn't have many close friends. 700 00:38:07,375 --> 00:38:09,125 You're going to hear from some of the girls 701 00:38:09,208 --> 00:38:10,917 that knew her during high school. 702 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,583 They will tell you that she texted them incessantly. 703 00:38:13,667 --> 00:38:15,166 She was trying to get close to them 704 00:38:15,250 --> 00:38:16,375 and be part of their lives, 705 00:38:16,458 --> 00:38:18,458 but these girls had many things going on 706 00:38:18,542 --> 00:38:20,333 and they really didn't hang around with her 707 00:38:20,417 --> 00:38:21,542 outside of school. 708 00:38:22,542 --> 00:38:24,667 So, in June of 2014, 709 00:38:24,750 --> 00:38:26,750 when the school year was coming to an end, 710 00:38:26,834 --> 00:38:30,625 the defendant needed something to get their attention. 711 00:38:30,709 --> 00:38:32,750 KATIE RAYBURN: Samantha Boardman, Your Honor. 712 00:38:35,083 --> 00:38:36,542 Now, in your junior year, 713 00:38:36,625 --> 00:38:38,750 did you meet someone by the name of Michelle Carter? 714 00:38:38,834 --> 00:38:40,125 SAM BOARDMAN: Yes. 715 00:38:40,208 --> 00:38:42,709 And do you remember how you came to meet her? 716 00:38:42,792 --> 00:38:48,291 She was in two of my classes, I believe, um, or-- 717 00:38:48,375 --> 00:38:52,125 So, I talked to her in math class, I believe. 718 00:38:52,208 --> 00:38:53,583 JUDGE MONIZ: There's another witness? 719 00:38:53,667 --> 00:38:55,000 FLYNN: Olivia Mosolgo, please. 720 00:38:55,083 --> 00:38:57,250 JUDGE MONIZ: All right. 721 00:38:57,333 --> 00:38:58,875 FLYNN: Would you consider yourself 722 00:38:58,959 --> 00:39:00,792 a close friend with her in high school? 723 00:39:00,875 --> 00:39:02,750 OLIVIA MOSOLGO: We were close teammates, I would say. 724 00:39:02,834 --> 00:39:05,333 FLYNN: So, you were more teammates, not friends? 725 00:39:05,417 --> 00:39:08,375 We were friends in the sense that I was there for her 726 00:39:08,458 --> 00:39:10,417 when she was going through things, and... 727 00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:12,125 -FLYNN: Okay. -But not every day, 728 00:39:12,208 --> 00:39:13,625 -like, best friends... -FLYNN: Would you go-- 729 00:39:13,709 --> 00:39:15,000 On weekends, would you hang out with her? 730 00:39:15,083 --> 00:39:16,500 -No. -FLYNN: Uh, is it fair to say 731 00:39:16,583 --> 00:39:18,583 that she expressed to you that she felt like 732 00:39:18,667 --> 00:39:20,500 -she had no friends? -MOSOLGO: Yes. 733 00:39:20,583 --> 00:39:22,834 FLYNN: And did she send text messages to you about that? 734 00:39:22,917 --> 00:39:24,000 MOSOLGO: Yes. 735 00:39:24,083 --> 00:39:25,208 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 736 00:39:25,291 --> 00:39:27,375 -MOSOLGO: (READS TEXT) -FLYNN: Okay. 737 00:39:27,458 --> 00:39:30,083 Do you recall getting that text message from Michelle Carter? 738 00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:32,458 MOSOLGO: Yes. 739 00:39:32,542 --> 00:39:35,125 KATIE RAYBURN: Lexie Eblan, please. 740 00:39:35,208 --> 00:39:36,959 Please describe your relationship 741 00:39:37,041 --> 00:39:38,875 with Michelle Carter, if-- if you had any. 742 00:39:38,959 --> 00:39:41,792 LEXIE EBLAN: It was mostly an in-school friendship. 743 00:39:41,875 --> 00:39:46,500 Um... Mostly just, like, talking in school and stuff. 744 00:39:46,583 --> 00:39:48,875 Um, that was kind of, like, the extent. 745 00:39:48,959 --> 00:39:51,041 RAYBURN: And during those first couple of years of high school, 746 00:39:51,125 --> 00:39:53,125 would you ever socialize with Michelle Carter 747 00:39:53,208 --> 00:39:54,333 outside of high school? 748 00:39:54,417 --> 00:39:55,959 Outside of seeing her in a classroom? 749 00:39:56,041 --> 00:39:57,417 I don't believe I did. 750 00:39:57,500 --> 00:39:59,458 RAYBURN: Did Michelle Carter ask you 751 00:39:59,542 --> 00:40:01,333 to do things during that junior year 752 00:40:01,417 --> 00:40:02,917 -via text? -EBLAN: Definitely. 753 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,709 -(TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) -EBLAN: Probably a couple, 754 00:40:04,792 --> 00:40:06,375 a few times a week. 755 00:40:06,458 --> 00:40:07,625 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 756 00:40:07,709 --> 00:40:09,166 RAYBURN: And what was your usual answer? 757 00:40:09,250 --> 00:40:10,375 EBLAN: That I was working 758 00:40:10,458 --> 00:40:13,625 or had something else to do, or no. 759 00:40:13,709 --> 00:40:15,417 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 760 00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,542 RAYBURN: And as school is ending, 761 00:40:17,625 --> 00:40:19,834 were there any talks between you and Michelle 762 00:40:19,917 --> 00:40:21,667 about doing things over the summer? 763 00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:24,542 EBLAN: Um, I believe Michelle asked us, 764 00:40:24,625 --> 00:40:26,709 but I'm not sure if we had any plans. 765 00:40:26,792 --> 00:40:28,834 RAYBURN: Okay. In your mind, did you have any plans 766 00:40:28,917 --> 00:40:30,250 to hang out with her over the summer? 767 00:40:30,333 --> 00:40:31,458 EBLAN: Not really. 768 00:40:34,583 --> 00:40:35,667 (CRICKETS CHIRPING) 769 00:40:39,667 --> 00:40:40,792 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 770 00:40:45,333 --> 00:40:47,333 ♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 771 00:41:10,208 --> 00:41:12,458 FLYNN: She knew her plan to get attention would work 772 00:41:12,542 --> 00:41:14,792 because she pre-tested it. 773 00:41:14,875 --> 00:41:19,083 On July 10, two days before Conrad committed suicide, 774 00:41:19,166 --> 00:41:20,625 she did a "dry run," 775 00:41:20,709 --> 00:41:24,125 texting several girls that Conrad had gone missing 776 00:41:24,208 --> 00:41:27,500 while simultaneously texting and talking with Conrad, 777 00:41:27,583 --> 00:41:29,625 telling him to go get the gas machine. 778 00:41:29,709 --> 00:41:30,917 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 779 00:41:39,458 --> 00:41:41,125 FLYNN: The girls immediately responded, 780 00:41:41,208 --> 00:41:42,375 texting concern, 781 00:41:42,458 --> 00:41:44,083 asking if the police were involved, 782 00:41:44,166 --> 00:41:46,291 and again, the defendant lied. 783 00:41:46,375 --> 00:41:47,583 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 784 00:41:49,083 --> 00:41:50,667 FLYNN: She also tells her friend 785 00:41:50,750 --> 00:41:52,542 that it's her fault that he killed himself. 786 00:41:58,417 --> 00:42:00,333 FLYNN: They, again, offering her comfort, 787 00:42:00,417 --> 00:42:02,792 -tell her it's not her fault. -(TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 788 00:42:05,375 --> 00:42:07,417 FLYNN: They are paying attention to her now. 789 00:42:08,417 --> 00:42:09,834 So, she has to make it happen. 790 00:42:09,917 --> 00:42:11,917 She has to make him kill himself 791 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,083 so that she continues to get that attention 792 00:42:14,166 --> 00:42:16,500 and not be known as a liar. 793 00:42:16,583 --> 00:42:19,834 She has to be the grieving girlfriend 794 00:42:19,917 --> 00:42:21,458 to get the sympathy and the attention 795 00:42:21,542 --> 00:42:23,083 that she believes she deserves. 796 00:42:23,959 --> 00:42:25,125 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 797 00:42:48,583 --> 00:42:52,583 RAYBURN: The next day, 7-13-2014, 798 00:42:52,667 --> 00:42:55,125 do you get a message from Michelle Carter? 799 00:42:56,125 --> 00:42:57,208 BOARDMAN: Yes. 800 00:42:57,291 --> 00:42:58,542 RAYBURN: What does she ask you? 801 00:42:58,625 --> 00:43:00,041 BOARDMAN: "Can we do something tonight 802 00:43:00,125 --> 00:43:01,834 to get my mind off of it?" 803 00:43:01,917 --> 00:43:03,375 RAYBURN: So, on the night of the twelfth, 804 00:43:03,458 --> 00:43:05,875 she texts you that Conrad killed himself, correct? 805 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,250 -BOARDMAN: Yes. -Okay. 806 00:43:07,333 --> 00:43:08,417 And then the next day, 807 00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:09,917 she asks you if you want to hang out? 808 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,417 BOARDMAN: Yes. 809 00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:13,166 ♪ (GENTLE MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 810 00:43:14,667 --> 00:43:16,667 FLYNN: In the days following Conrad's death, 811 00:43:16,750 --> 00:43:18,375 she sought attention and sympathy, 812 00:43:18,458 --> 00:43:22,542 posting frequently on Facebook about how she missed him. 813 00:43:22,625 --> 00:43:25,125 People started texting her, consoling her, 814 00:43:25,208 --> 00:43:28,041 visiting her, and she suddenly became important. 815 00:43:28,125 --> 00:43:29,333 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 816 00:43:31,667 --> 00:43:33,542 FLYNN: What did you do, after you heard that? 817 00:43:33,625 --> 00:43:35,291 MOSOLGO: I went to see her. 818 00:43:35,375 --> 00:43:37,417 FLYNN: And was that something that you would normally do? 819 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:39,166 MOSOLGO: It's something I would normally do 820 00:43:39,250 --> 00:43:40,583 for a friend that was having 821 00:43:40,667 --> 00:43:42,208 -a difficult time-- -No, I'm asking you 822 00:43:42,291 --> 00:43:43,792 would you normally do that for Michelle Carter? 823 00:43:43,875 --> 00:43:45,000 -MOSOLGO: I wouldn't-- -Go to her house? 824 00:43:45,083 --> 00:43:46,000 MOSOLGO: No. Not usually. 825 00:43:46,083 --> 00:43:47,333 And why, on this particular day, 826 00:43:47,417 --> 00:43:48,792 did you decide to go to her house? 827 00:43:48,875 --> 00:43:50,333 MOSOLGO: Because I would probably want 828 00:43:50,417 --> 00:43:52,000 someone to be with me if that happened. 829 00:43:52,083 --> 00:43:54,500 FLYNN: So, you felt that she needed your comfort? 830 00:43:54,583 --> 00:43:56,000 MOSOLGO: Yes. 831 00:43:56,083 --> 00:43:58,917 FLYNN: Did you observe people, uh, comforting her 832 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,458 -in the days that followed? -MOSOLGO: Yes. 833 00:44:00,542 --> 00:44:02,667 FLYNN: And was that more than normal? 834 00:44:02,750 --> 00:44:04,458 -Yes. -FLYNN: Okay. 835 00:44:04,542 --> 00:44:07,750 And at some point, um, did you learn about something called 836 00:44:07,834 --> 00:44:09,375 -Homers for Conrad? -MOSOLGO: Yes. 837 00:44:09,458 --> 00:44:10,917 FLYNN: How did you come to learn about that? 838 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,417 It was on Facebook and she told me about it. 839 00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:15,291 FLYNN: Do you recall getting this text message? 840 00:44:15,375 --> 00:44:17,208 Could you please read it for us? 841 00:44:17,291 --> 00:44:19,500 MOSOLGO: (READS TEXT) 842 00:44:22,083 --> 00:44:23,625 FLYNN: Did you check it out? 843 00:44:23,709 --> 00:44:25,500 Yes. 844 00:44:25,583 --> 00:44:28,208 BOARDMAN: Homers for Conrad was a tournament 845 00:44:28,291 --> 00:44:31,834 that Michelle was putting on in Conrad's honor 846 00:44:31,917 --> 00:44:35,083 to raise money for mental health awareness. 847 00:44:37,583 --> 00:44:39,333 I was curious as to why the tournament 848 00:44:39,417 --> 00:44:42,166 was being held in Plainville and not in Mattapoisett. 849 00:44:42,250 --> 00:44:43,959 RAYBURN: Why were you curious about that? 850 00:44:44,041 --> 00:44:45,667 'Cause all of Conrad's family and friends 851 00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:47,917 -are from Mattapoisett. -(TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 852 00:44:52,792 --> 00:44:54,333 RAYBURN: Did you relay to her that you thought 853 00:44:54,417 --> 00:44:56,750 it made more sense to have it in Mattapoisett 854 00:44:56,834 --> 00:44:59,000 where Conrad's friends and family are? 855 00:44:59,083 --> 00:45:01,041 -Yes. -(TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 856 00:45:10,417 --> 00:45:12,458 RAYBURN: And how did she respond to you wanting, suggesting, 857 00:45:12,542 --> 00:45:14,250 that maybe it should be moved to be more convenient 858 00:45:14,333 --> 00:45:16,875 -for his friends and family? -She wasn't willing to move it. 859 00:45:16,959 --> 00:45:18,166 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 860 00:45:21,917 --> 00:45:23,333 TOM GAMMELL: When I kept asking about it, 861 00:45:23,417 --> 00:45:25,333 she wanted to make clear 862 00:45:25,417 --> 00:45:28,125 that she was getting credit for all this, 863 00:45:28,208 --> 00:45:30,083 which I had no problem with. 864 00:45:30,166 --> 00:45:31,333 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 865 00:45:33,125 --> 00:45:35,291 RAYBURN: Given that she wasn't willing to move it, sir, 866 00:45:35,375 --> 00:45:36,709 what did you do? 867 00:45:36,792 --> 00:45:38,291 I went to the tournament. 868 00:45:40,458 --> 00:45:43,208 RAYBURN: And at some point, did Miss Carter ask that 869 00:45:43,291 --> 00:45:45,709 her photograph be taken with some of the teams? 870 00:45:45,792 --> 00:45:47,125 GAMMELL: Yes. 871 00:45:47,208 --> 00:45:48,667 RAYBURN: And is that a fair and accurate depiction 872 00:45:48,750 --> 00:45:51,750 of a team photo with your team, uh, having won, 873 00:45:51,834 --> 00:45:53,125 and Miss Carter in the middle? 874 00:45:53,208 --> 00:45:54,417 Yes. 875 00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:56,083 RAYBURN: How would you describe 876 00:45:56,166 --> 00:45:58,375 Miss Carter's demeanor throughout Homers for Conrad? 877 00:45:58,458 --> 00:46:00,125 GAMMELL: She seemed very happy. 878 00:46:01,333 --> 00:46:03,291 RAYBURN: Did you see other young ladies 879 00:46:03,375 --> 00:46:05,875 at Homers for Conrad, as well as yourself? 880 00:46:05,959 --> 00:46:07,208 BOARDMAN: Yes. 881 00:46:07,291 --> 00:46:08,750 RAYBURN: Young ladies from your school, 882 00:46:08,834 --> 00:46:10,959 and yourself, and Miss Carter. Is that correct? 883 00:46:11,041 --> 00:46:12,875 -Yes. -RAYBURN: Thank you. 884 00:46:12,959 --> 00:46:16,333 FLYNN: And were some of them, uh, her friends? 885 00:46:16,417 --> 00:46:19,166 They were mostly all her friends and family. 886 00:46:21,333 --> 00:46:22,750 FLYNN: She begins to get 887 00:46:22,834 --> 00:46:25,709 the attention that she's been craving for. 888 00:46:25,792 --> 00:46:27,375 The grieving girlfriend. 889 00:46:37,208 --> 00:46:40,125 REPORTER 2: Three years after Conrad Roy committed suicide, 890 00:46:40,208 --> 00:46:43,166 prosecutors took us to the site where it happened. 891 00:46:45,458 --> 00:46:46,625 From what I understand, 892 00:46:46,709 --> 00:46:48,834 this is where the boy took his life. 893 00:46:48,917 --> 00:46:50,041 Sitting right here. 894 00:46:51,417 --> 00:46:52,542 It's so sad. 895 00:46:55,291 --> 00:46:56,917 I've never met the girl, 896 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,875 but I've seen pictures of her. 897 00:46:58,959 --> 00:47:01,375 She just has that look that I remember, 898 00:47:02,375 --> 00:47:03,709 that I see that look, 899 00:47:03,792 --> 00:47:05,458 and it's like, "You little snot. 900 00:47:05,542 --> 00:47:08,458 How could you do that to a human being, 901 00:47:08,542 --> 00:47:11,291 you 90210 piece of crap?" 902 00:47:11,375 --> 00:47:12,917 Uh, you know? 903 00:47:14,250 --> 00:47:16,208 I'm telling you, if I was on the jury, 904 00:47:16,291 --> 00:47:18,250 I'd say, "Yeah. Go ahead. 905 00:47:18,333 --> 00:47:19,792 Your parents aren't gonna miss you 906 00:47:19,875 --> 00:47:22,417 if you're in Framingham for the next 30 years. 907 00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:23,917 See ya later, bye." 908 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,250 I-- I swear to God, you know. 909 00:47:26,333 --> 00:47:27,709 To me, this is evil. 910 00:47:27,792 --> 00:47:29,333 This is evil. 911 00:47:29,417 --> 00:47:32,333 And, um, where does evil come from? 912 00:47:32,417 --> 00:47:33,875 I don't know. 913 00:47:33,959 --> 00:47:35,500 ♪ (MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 914 00:47:35,583 --> 00:47:37,208 BARRON: Almost immediately after the indictment, 915 00:47:37,291 --> 00:47:38,709 there was... 916 00:47:38,792 --> 00:47:40,375 a narrative that got set, that didn't change. 917 00:47:40,458 --> 00:47:42,208 And it was set in the community, it was set in town, 918 00:47:42,291 --> 00:47:43,417 it was set in the press. 919 00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:46,041 And that is of this heartless bitch 920 00:47:46,125 --> 00:47:49,291 who killed a guy to get popular. 921 00:47:49,375 --> 00:47:51,166 And the reason that's such a compelling story 922 00:47:51,250 --> 00:47:54,208 is it combines two things that people feel about teenage girls. 923 00:47:54,291 --> 00:47:57,625 One of them is that they are-- Uh, they're coercive, 924 00:47:57,709 --> 00:47:59,709 that they have a kind of secret power 925 00:47:59,792 --> 00:48:02,625 that men don't have, that boys don't have, 926 00:48:02,709 --> 00:48:04,375 and that they can use it. 927 00:48:04,458 --> 00:48:07,208 The other thing is that they're crazy 928 00:48:07,291 --> 00:48:09,000 and they only live for attention 929 00:48:09,083 --> 00:48:11,375 and they just want to be popular and they're vapid. 930 00:48:11,458 --> 00:48:13,709 And so, in saying that Michelle was this, like, 931 00:48:13,792 --> 00:48:15,000 coercive ice queen 932 00:48:15,083 --> 00:48:17,250 who killed a guy in order to become popular, 933 00:48:17,333 --> 00:48:19,250 it was like the perfect combination 934 00:48:19,333 --> 00:48:22,750 of everything that people hate about teenage girls. 935 00:48:29,625 --> 00:48:32,041 COGAN: It was near-universal revulsion 936 00:48:32,125 --> 00:48:34,542 at Michelle Carter. 937 00:48:34,625 --> 00:48:38,792 She was portrayed as this black widow, 938 00:48:38,875 --> 00:48:40,750 this teenage black widow, 939 00:48:40,834 --> 00:48:43,750 a sociopath, a monster. 940 00:48:43,834 --> 00:48:47,083 She was called the worst person in the world. 941 00:48:47,166 --> 00:48:51,875 Just universal shock and anger that someone could do this 942 00:48:51,959 --> 00:48:54,542 to this sweet young man, Conrad Roy. 943 00:48:56,709 --> 00:48:58,792 BARRON: None of this is to say that what Michelle did 944 00:48:58,875 --> 00:49:00,291 wasn't scary. 945 00:49:02,041 --> 00:49:03,875 But the narrative that she did it 946 00:49:03,959 --> 00:49:07,583 in this kind of witchy, Satanic, coercive way, 947 00:49:07,667 --> 00:49:11,667 I think, came more from us than from her. 948 00:49:12,959 --> 00:49:14,500 It's an American fable. 949 00:49:17,166 --> 00:49:19,834 BREGGIN: Men are terrified of women. 950 00:49:22,375 --> 00:49:24,083 We all struggle with that. 951 00:49:25,250 --> 00:49:27,917 There's a long history of witches 952 00:49:28,542 --> 00:49:29,834 in our culture. 953 00:49:30,709 --> 00:49:32,625 And who are witches? 954 00:49:32,709 --> 00:49:34,667 Witches were often 955 00:49:34,750 --> 00:49:38,750 strong, loving women who treated people, 956 00:49:38,834 --> 00:49:41,959 deranged people, sick people. 957 00:49:42,041 --> 00:49:44,625 And we have vilified women 958 00:49:44,709 --> 00:49:46,834 in many roles throughout history. 959 00:49:48,041 --> 00:49:52,041 There's, in many men, a fear 960 00:49:53,083 --> 00:49:55,333 that women can control them. 961 00:50:03,709 --> 00:50:05,208 CATALDO: There are certain stories 962 00:50:05,291 --> 00:50:08,834 that may sell newspapers and television shows 963 00:50:08,917 --> 00:50:14,458 that the media will latch onto and try to turn into something. 964 00:50:16,041 --> 00:50:18,875 You know, you have a, uh, young girl, 965 00:50:18,959 --> 00:50:22,500 a girl who's attractive, and it was... 966 00:50:22,583 --> 00:50:27,417 portrayed as something, uh, that it really wasn't. 967 00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:31,333 They were just trying to paint Michelle in a bad light, 968 00:50:31,417 --> 00:50:33,458 to try and say she had a motive 969 00:50:33,542 --> 00:50:36,375 because, again, this case is so unique. 970 00:50:36,458 --> 00:50:38,542 You need to twist the facts. 971 00:50:38,625 --> 00:50:40,333 You need to twist the law 972 00:50:40,417 --> 00:50:44,667 and try to line it all up to meet your story. 973 00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:46,542 He had had depression. 974 00:50:46,625 --> 00:50:47,667 She knew that. 975 00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:49,709 He was an easy target. 976 00:50:49,792 --> 00:50:52,959 It was all about her getting the attention 977 00:50:53,041 --> 00:50:55,041 from a dead boyfriend. 978 00:50:55,125 --> 00:50:56,583 How do you even process that? 979 00:50:56,667 --> 00:50:58,917 That someone could be that inhuman? 980 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,083 I believe some people have no soul, 981 00:51:02,166 --> 00:51:03,709 no conscience. 982 00:51:03,792 --> 00:51:06,625 DR. OZ: Oh, my goodness. That's horrible. 983 00:51:35,333 --> 00:51:36,667 BARRON: Michelle had 984 00:51:36,750 --> 00:51:38,625 serious, serious mental health issues 985 00:51:38,709 --> 00:51:41,083 for most of her adolescent life. 986 00:51:41,166 --> 00:51:43,458 She had a severe eating disorder. 987 00:51:43,542 --> 00:51:45,333 She was incredibly lonely. 988 00:51:47,041 --> 00:51:49,583 BREGGIN: I think the eating disorder did to her 989 00:51:49,667 --> 00:51:51,500 what it does to all young girls 990 00:51:51,583 --> 00:51:53,917 who are suffering from that kind of problem. 991 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,333 It tends to make you feel odd and strange, 992 00:51:58,417 --> 00:52:00,834 and it tends to make you want to isolate. 993 00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:05,583 You tend to isolate from your parents. 994 00:52:05,667 --> 00:52:08,041 You tend to hide your eating problem. 995 00:52:09,667 --> 00:52:13,208 And then, later on, she starts to cut herself. 996 00:52:13,291 --> 00:52:17,792 And cutting further isolates children from adults. 997 00:52:17,875 --> 00:52:19,458 They have to hide it from the doctors, 998 00:52:19,542 --> 00:52:21,333 hide it from their parents. 999 00:52:21,417 --> 00:52:23,250 And she spends hours 1000 00:52:23,333 --> 00:52:25,333 texting back and forth with kids 1001 00:52:25,417 --> 00:52:27,625 who also aren't talking to their parents 1002 00:52:27,709 --> 00:52:29,959 about cutting, about eating disorders, 1003 00:52:30,041 --> 00:52:31,959 about suicide. 1004 00:52:32,041 --> 00:52:33,542 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 1005 00:53:09,083 --> 00:53:11,500 RAYBURN: Are there times when the defendant would text you 1006 00:53:11,583 --> 00:53:13,500 and you would take a while to text back? 1007 00:53:13,583 --> 00:53:15,125 -BOARDMAN: Yes. -And would she sometimes, 1008 00:53:15,208 --> 00:53:16,542 the defendant, react to that? 1009 00:53:16,625 --> 00:53:17,792 BOARDMAN: Yes. 1010 00:53:17,875 --> 00:53:19,208 And what-- How would her reaction be 1011 00:53:19,291 --> 00:53:22,417 if you took a long time to respond to her? 1012 00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:24,834 BOARDMAN: She would often repetitively-- 1013 00:53:24,917 --> 00:53:28,917 repeatedly texted me until I responded. 1014 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,458 RAYBURN: And what would you generally describe, 1015 00:53:31,542 --> 00:53:32,917 sometimes, to be the length 1016 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,959 of the defendant's text messages to you? 1017 00:53:35,041 --> 00:53:36,417 BOARDMAN: Very lengthy. 1018 00:53:38,125 --> 00:53:41,125 BOARDMAN: (READS TEXTS) 1019 00:54:29,250 --> 00:54:30,667 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 1020 00:54:47,250 --> 00:54:49,625 BREGGIN: There's no question that Michelle 1021 00:54:49,709 --> 00:54:52,750 is always asking people to love her. 1022 00:54:52,834 --> 00:54:55,083 She's always asking to get together, 1023 00:54:55,166 --> 00:54:58,625 and seemingly is not often getting together. 1024 00:54:58,709 --> 00:55:00,250 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 1025 00:55:05,875 --> 00:55:08,291 BREGIN: And a lot of her friends couldn't reciprocate 1026 00:55:08,375 --> 00:55:10,458 because she's too desperate. 1027 00:55:10,542 --> 00:55:12,000 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 1028 00:55:12,083 --> 00:55:16,000 She's so needy. It's a hole no one can fill. 1029 00:55:16,083 --> 00:55:17,250 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 1030 00:55:20,542 --> 00:55:22,291 Keep in mind, this is not 1031 00:55:22,375 --> 00:55:25,750 such a strange phenomena among young girls. 1032 00:55:25,834 --> 00:55:27,041 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 1033 00:55:29,709 --> 00:55:34,834 BREGGIN: Girls in high school destroy each other. 1034 00:55:36,250 --> 00:55:37,417 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 1035 00:55:40,917 --> 00:55:43,625 (CROWD CHEERING) 1036 00:55:44,834 --> 00:55:47,625 ANNOUNCER: Michelle Diana Carter. 1037 00:55:47,709 --> 00:55:49,750 AUDIENCE MEMBER: (SHOUTING) Good job! 1038 00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:56,166 CATALDO: It was all over national news. 1039 00:55:56,250 --> 00:55:59,250 Michelle was made out to, uh, be the bad guy. 1040 00:55:59,333 --> 00:56:02,250 Her-- Her friends at that point, the ones that were called, 1041 00:56:02,333 --> 00:56:03,417 did abandon her. 1042 00:56:05,417 --> 00:56:07,500 They were painting a different reality 1043 00:56:07,583 --> 00:56:08,917 than what existed. 1044 00:56:10,959 --> 00:56:14,083 The focus became Michelle, and not Conrad. 1045 00:56:14,166 --> 00:56:16,083 Did he really want to die? 1046 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,250 And so, they shied away from 1047 00:56:20,333 --> 00:56:23,625 the root causes of why Conrad Roy killed himself. 1048 00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:37,166 Your Honor, this case is a suicide case. 1049 00:56:37,250 --> 00:56:39,375 It is not a homicide. 1050 00:56:39,458 --> 00:56:42,583 There just is insufficient evidence 1051 00:56:42,667 --> 00:56:46,709 to a reasonable factfinder to say that Conrad Roy 1052 00:56:46,792 --> 00:56:48,959 would not have taken his own life 1053 00:56:49,041 --> 00:56:52,542 on July 12th or July 13th of 2014 1054 00:56:52,625 --> 00:56:54,500 but for Michelle Carter. 1055 00:56:55,709 --> 00:56:58,375 The Commonwealth is trying to have it 1056 00:56:58,458 --> 00:57:01,792 so that the evidence is all about Michelle Carter. 1057 00:57:01,875 --> 00:57:06,333 There is so much evidence about Conrad Roy 1058 00:57:06,417 --> 00:57:09,375 and his decisions and his choices. 1059 00:57:11,500 --> 00:57:13,875 I can't fathom the fact that 1060 00:57:13,959 --> 00:57:16,875 I was such a happy kid 1061 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:19,333 when I was younger. 1062 00:57:20,834 --> 00:57:24,333 And I've created a monster out of myself 1063 00:57:25,917 --> 00:57:27,333 the past few years 1064 00:57:28,166 --> 00:57:29,709 because of my depression. 1065 00:57:30,750 --> 00:57:32,375 Racing thoughts... 1066 00:57:34,041 --> 00:57:35,959 suicidal thoughts. 1067 00:57:36,041 --> 00:57:37,792 (KEYBOARD TYPING) 1068 00:57:37,875 --> 00:57:40,625 CATALDO: Go through his Google searches. 1069 00:57:42,208 --> 00:57:44,709 "Committing suicide makes you happy." 1070 00:57:45,458 --> 00:57:48,333 (KEYBOARD TYPING) 1071 00:57:48,417 --> 00:57:51,875 CATALDO: There are hundreds of these searches. 1072 00:57:51,959 --> 00:57:53,959 (KEYBOARD TYPING) 1073 00:57:54,041 --> 00:57:57,458 CATALDO: It was Mr. Roy who had a plan 1074 00:57:57,542 --> 00:57:58,792 to take his own life. 1075 00:57:58,875 --> 00:58:00,375 A long-held belief. 1076 00:58:01,542 --> 00:58:03,875 It goes back to the causation issue. 1077 00:58:03,959 --> 00:58:07,417 Did she actually cause his death? 1078 00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:10,000 COGAN: The question at the heart of this case is 1079 00:58:10,083 --> 00:58:12,750 can you cause someone else to commit suicide? 1080 00:58:12,834 --> 00:58:15,917 The prosecution has to prove that Michelle Carter 1081 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,041 caused Conrad Roy's death. 1082 00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,667 RAYBURN: To suggest that he had his own free will, 1083 00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:31,834 and-- and we all do, to an extent, 1084 00:58:31,917 --> 00:58:33,333 and he could've just ignored her, 1085 00:58:33,417 --> 00:58:36,291 is an oversimplification of what was going on here. 1086 00:58:36,375 --> 00:58:40,250 Between the statements of "Why haven't you done it yet?" 1087 00:58:40,333 --> 00:58:42,417 and things of that nature, were other words, 1088 00:58:42,500 --> 00:58:43,750 and they were words of love. 1089 00:58:43,834 --> 00:58:45,083 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 1090 00:58:50,083 --> 00:58:52,667 RAYBURN: Although it may seem odd that I'm suggesting 1091 00:58:52,750 --> 00:58:55,041 that words of love could be considered reckless, 1092 00:58:55,125 --> 00:58:58,166 I think they are here when you look at the circumstances. 1093 00:58:58,250 --> 00:59:01,333 She knew that he had social anxiety. 1094 00:59:01,417 --> 00:59:02,917 She knew that he was depressed. 1095 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,083 She knew his frailties because he confided in her. 1096 00:59:06,166 --> 00:59:07,333 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 1097 00:59:12,625 --> 00:59:15,083 RAYBURN: But not only that, Your Honor, 1098 00:59:15,166 --> 00:59:17,250 she knew herself. 1099 00:59:17,333 --> 00:59:20,208 She knew what it was like to be lonely. 1100 00:59:20,291 --> 00:59:22,542 And as June turned into July, 1101 00:59:22,625 --> 00:59:26,750 she turned that into "I love you, kill yourself." 1102 00:59:26,834 --> 00:59:29,083 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 1103 00:59:29,166 --> 00:59:32,125 MAKI: I don't know how someone could tell someone else 1104 00:59:32,208 --> 00:59:34,625 to kill themselves that supposedly loved them. 1105 00:59:34,709 --> 00:59:35,959 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERT) 1106 00:59:37,458 --> 00:59:39,375 You want to help them, 1107 00:59:39,458 --> 00:59:41,542 not help them to kill themselves. 1108 00:59:41,625 --> 00:59:43,125 (TEXT MESSAGE ALERTS) 1109 00:59:49,542 --> 00:59:52,834 BREGGIN: It's a perfect storm of a tragedy. 1110 00:59:52,917 --> 00:59:54,583 It's a complete tragedy. 1111 00:59:54,667 --> 00:59:56,667 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC BUILDS) ♪ 1112 01:00:03,041 --> 01:00:05,000 Many things played a role in here. 1113 01:00:08,542 --> 01:00:11,417 And some things that seem very important 1114 01:00:11,500 --> 01:00:14,542 seem to me to have been withheld by the prosecution. 1115 01:00:34,875 --> 01:00:37,208 ♪ (MUSIC PLAYS) ♪