[Duffy] OK, how about this?
Why would a guy like you
put his own needs ahead of the lives of so many innocent people?
Women and children.
How can you sit here, knowing, by not talking,
you're putting those people in danger like that? It makes no sense to me.
They're out there right now, mate. OK?
And we both know they are.
I mean,
how many are we talking, do you reckon?
Ten? It could be 20?
Somewhere in between?
I mean, just for now let's call it a dozen, alright?
You don't want the lives of 12 innocent people on your hands. You can't do.
Look...
I'll tell you what I see right now in this room...
is a good man who's made mistakes.
Now, good men make mistakes all the time. All you have to do is help us fix it.
Do that and we're all gonna be fine.
But carry on like this, Jay, and you're gonna have blood on your hands.
It's too strong.
- That last bit was too strong. - No, needs to be strong.
- [Ottager] I agree. - [Hobbs] Strong is good.
- [Ottager] That's what I think. - Especially with the clock.
[Tony] Look...
The risk is, if you guilt him upfront, "blood on his hands" and all that,
the moment he gets in here
and for whatever reason it doesn't pan out, then...
he can withdraw completely.
- The interview structure should... - Structure's out the window, Tony.
We're all fans of the structure, but the structure needs time.
Yes, and this case is live.
[Ottager] More so than anything we've ever done.
Hey... remember what we talked about, you and me?
You know this case. You're good at what you do.
He's said nothing yet since his arrest,
but that doesn't mean you can't get him started.
All the personal stuff: him, his family... That's all on the money.
- You can hit him with that all day long. - We don't have all day long.
Ignore him.
He knows what we mean.
[door buzzing]
[elevator pings]
[man over walkie] We have the suspect. Bringing him up for questioning.
When I started this department a year ago, I had over 200 applicants and I chose you.
Both of you.
You hold on to that, please.
[tense music playing]
[walkies crackle]
[tense music continues]
[beeping]
[Duffy] The time now is 3:18 p.m.
On the 17th of January, 2019.
Present in the room, Detective Constable Hugo Duffy.
Detective Inspector Paul Ottager.
[Duffy] If you could state your name, please.
And a Jamaal or "Jay" Muthassim.
It's worth saying you were given the right to a solicitor
but you've chosen not to have one present, correct?
We want to work with you on this, Jay.
And we don't have much time.
Want to know what else you don't have?
Sorry?
Say what you've got to say, then I'll tell you what you're not getting,
and you can get on with your day, and I can get on with mine. [sniffs]
[sighs]
- [high pitched whine] - [eerie music playing]
Your lorry, your P-reg HGV. You drove it through Dover last night.
Saturday.
You came in via France from Bremen, Germany.
You were arrested in Harrow just before four, at your home,
by which time you had parted company with the haul, yeah?
- Where did you leave it? - No comment.
- You must've delivered it to someone. Who? - What were their names?
What was in the back of the truck, Jay?
No comment, no comment...
no comment.
Still not registering, Jay?
The trouble you are in, here?
Look...
I drive trucks.
Yeah?
I don't ask questions. That's not how it works.
So, when you left Dover, your lorry was flagged on the system.
They should have pulled you over, but they didn't.
So they put a flag on your truck intending to pull you later on the M25.
But you never made it that far.
Says who?
Says us.
- Yeah, but who told you? - ANPR told us.
ANPR is a number plate recognition system used to clock number plates.
I know what ANPR is, friend,
but to get flagged on that you have to drive past the cameras.
- And you never did? - [scoffs] You tell me.
- [Ottager] You avoided the cameras? - Maybe I just went a different way.
- You make a habit of that? - Maybe, yeah.
I like to mix it up.
That's allowed. I know it is.
Continue.
OK, let me tell you something you may not know.
The previous week, so the previous Saturday,
another truck, similar to yours, came in through Dover at a similar time of day,
also en route from Bremen, Germany.
Wow.
The lorry had the same CMR reference as yours.
CMR report is the document which logs every truck's movements.
I know what CMR is.
[Duffy] Oh, so you appreciate the link, yes?
And that truck was pulled over, Jay.
It was pulled over and found to contain seven Syrian immigrants,
all alive, but not very well.
All alive, but very cold.
I don't choose the CMR code. You get what you're given.
The driver of that truck claimed not to know what he had in the back.
Said what you said, basically.
Didn't ask, didn't want to know. Just took the job.
But that didn't mean he wasn't charged. He was still smuggling illegal migrants.
But you know what he did, Jay? He did a deal.
He was able to reduce any potential sentence
in return for information.
Go on, ask him.
Ask him what information.
They wanted the names of the people who paid him to do the job.
Which he gave.
And it turned out they lived, Jay... drum-roll please...
near Harrow.
Good old Harrow.
But anyway, back to the evidence we do not have.
Oh, this is nice. You'll like this one. This one starts with a picture.
This is Larissa.
Larissa means "cheerful" in English.
She was on the truck.
- Not my truck. - Not your truck, no.
The one from the week before, with the same CMR code as yours.
Now, she's not looking particularly cheerful here, granted.
But that's with good reason, Jay.
She's missing her kids.
They were meant to be on the next truck.
A truck scheduled, she says, for the following week.
The following Saturday.
That's your truck, Jay.
That's why there's such an urgency here, in your case.
But there's a difference between your case and his, isn't there?
Because this is ongoing, Jay. This is live.
That's why there's all those people through there, watching,
ready to move,
wanting you to tell us, waiting, Jay...
for you.
Doesn't believe us.
Which is ironic.
- Explain. - Well, for one thing...
he doesn't think there's anyone on the other side of that mirror.
It's most likely a bluff.
Well, that's easy.
I can help you with that.
- [flicking switches] - If I can work out how...
you should be able to see...
Detectives Hobbs, Myerscough, Warren and Petit,
Adele Addo, SIO of the team that arrested you at your home,
members of Immigration Enforcement... you're not allowed to know their names...
and of the National Crime Agency...
you are definitely not allowed to know theirs.
No need to wave.
- [flicks switch] - [lights hum]
You may not want to believe this...
but we're trying to stop you from going down for life, Jay.
Because that is what will happen
if the truck you drove contains immigrants and you don't tell us where you left it.
If we don't find the trailer, Jay,
and they don't survive, that is the only sentence a judge can pass.
He or she will have no option.
- I've not done that. - No? You never made it to Harrow.
- Says who? - Says the ANPR, again.
Which would have picked you up if you did.
So tell us where it is, Jay. Just put this behind you.
Look, we've got people on the other side of that glass ready to track this on maps.
Ready to call in officers on the ground to help search.
Medics, waiting to help treat the migrants you abandoned.
Now point them in the right direction and put this behind you.
Tell us where they are, mate.
That's all this needs.
[sombre music playing]
[clock ticking]
No comment.
[Addo] Six months!
Six months to get an arrest and he's about to wriggle out of it.
You can see it.
The old brain-box working.
Knows he's in the shit. He's just trying to figure out how much shit there is.
What else we might find.
You disagree?
You look like you disagree.
Just listening.
You tend to find that people like him, they're connected.
Part of a web of all sorts of things.
He could just be frightened.
Too scared to tell us where it is because he's terrified we might be right.
That's the radius.
From the last ANPR reading on the M20 to the furthest point he could've traveled
in order to be back in Harrow for the time of his arrest.
That's the only area he could have abandoned the trailer.
Are these the right people?
Look, you run a unit dedicated to this and I just need to hear it from you.
Are these the very best people you have to be asking these questions?
No, I just thought I'd give it to whoever.
[closes window]
We need to push.
No, we need to be careful, Detective.
Go too fast, and this will all take ten times longer.
What about noise?
Did you hear anything from the trailer as you were driving?
No comment.
[Duffy] People shouting? Or... crying?
Pleading to be let out because it was too cold?
Or because they'd been in the back, in the dark, for 22 hours?
No comment.
Then again, you hear a lot of stories about migrants being told to stay silent
when they're smuggled into this country.
For their own sakes, of course. But maybe they were too...
terrified to cry.
Maybe they were so cold, they were no longer able to.
- [speaker beeps] - [Hobbs] Hugo.
Interview suspended at 3:32 p.m.
[beeping]
Maybe they found the truck.
[eerie music playing]
[door closes]
[Addo] They found his tachograph in his food recycling bin.
It's the card that carries all the data from his journeys:
average speeds, recorded layovers, a full record of locations.
The tachograph's data is being uploaded and it will come through on email.
Even if it doesn't give us the location, it should narrow things right down.
Providing it was plugged in.
- True. - Those cards can be removed.
It's illegal to remove the card.
So, if that's what he's done it would show premeditation.
Has the email arrived?
Not yet.
Before it does, we should have Paul and Hugo resume the interview.
They don't need to know what's on there. Not yet.
Not knowing what's on there keeps this clean.
They cannot say the data gives the truck's whereabouts if they know that it doesn't.
Yeah, it makes them liars.
I mean, look at him.
He didn't know what was in the back of that trailer.
Not when he first took the job.
He's just a bloke who needed some cash, got way out of his depth,
and now he's trying to cover his tracks. He's rattled.
And while he is,
while we're looking at the data,
Paul and Hugo have a window.
There are more senior people in this room than me,
but if it is a suggestion you're after...
now might be the time to get up in his grill.
It's not mine, mate!
- How does that work? - It's not my card!
So some other driver drove around to your place
and hid their tachograph in your food bin?
- Maybe you hid it there. - How stupid are you?
How stupid do you think we are?
What's the point in planting a card full of data?
All the card is good for is telling us where you've been,
and we don't know where you've been, do we?
We can't plant evidence we don't have.
So, it is yours. Yes?
So you're lying.
Yes?
You're a liar. Concealing evidence, now.
You gonna tell us what's on that card, or do we have to look it up for ourselves?
You gonna let those people freeze and starve and be terrorised any longer,
or do we have to spend crucial minutes trying to find them for ourselves?
[beeping]
That's as far as we get. He switched it off after that.
That still brings our search area right down.
[Ottager] Where's the truck, Jay?
All this going on, all these people stuck,
and you're nothing but a liar, Jay.
Where's the truck, Jay? Tell us where the truck is, Jay.
Women and children, Jay.
You're a liar. Redeem yourself, Jay.
Where's the truck, Jay? These are people's lives, Jay.
Where is the truck?
Where, Jay?
Where is the truck? Where, Jay?
- Where's the truck, Jay? - Paul.
Shut up. Jay!
Where the fuck's the truck?
Jay!
[Ottager shouting] Where the fuck is the truck?
[ominous music playing]
[shallow breathing]
Fine.
The data's arrived, yes?
Well, we'll hang him on that, then.
Interview suspended at 3:40 p.m.
[beeping]
[Duffy] If he's wiped it? If he's deleted what's on there?
Have you deleted what's on there?
Doesn't matter, does it? You can retrieve the data from the cab.
And if he's tried, then he knows he's only incriminated himself further.
[door opens]
[door closes]
[shallow breathing]
Did you know what was in the back?
If you're right...
- I'm not... I'm not saying you are... - [Duffy] No.
...but for the purposes of this, uh...
If there are... people in there...
and I tell you where it is,
everyone's going to know that it was me that told you...
aren't they?
Yeah.
[tense music playing]
What about me?
You tell me there's people in there...
kids in there...
What about me?
What about my kids?
What are they going to do to us when they find out that it was me that told you?
There's protection.
I don't want protection. I'm protecting myself.
I want a solicitor.
Well, that's going to take time, Jay.
You don't want to waste time.
I want a solicitor.
Please.
Hello. Are you Mr Walker?
Yes. One second.
- Yes, and you are? - I'm Ms Warren.
We're now looking at a 350-acre area of woodland for the trailer.
- And exactly how big is that? - Hyde Park-ish.
We've got a helicopter up and 70 officers on the ground.
So we're gonna find this thing. It's just whether we find it in time.
- Solicitor's having five minutes with him. - [Ottager] That was quick.
Vanessa called him in earlier in case he changed his mind.
Kyle.
- Hugo. - Huh.
OK, so this is about ownership now.
He knows we'll find it.
He just needs to understand that he can be the one to guide us to it.
It's not too late for him to cooperate,
and that will help him help his sentence. Alright?
And use the solicitor. Make sure he feels invested.
Yeah, and try not to look so relaxed, mate, yeah?
My client would like to state definitively
that he had no knowledge of the contents of the trailer he was driving.
- Thank you. - And he still doesn't.
Thank you.
Just before we came in, DC Petit here, he asked me a question.
He said, how long was it before they found a certain lorry in France?
So I told him it was 25 hours,
then he asked about the weather conditions relating to that particular case,
which I explained were similar to the weather conditions
we've been experiencing here over the past few days.
Now those details are helpful and relevant here, Jay,
because they relate to a trailer much like yours,
that was abandoned near the Mont Blanc Tunnel...
and found to contain 19 migrants...
five of whom were still alive.
So that gives you an idea about how long people can survive in lorries like yours.
You have children, yeah?
Boys.
Eight and three.
Larissa's children, they're older.
Eleven and nine.
Girls. So it's not... That's not quite the same.
That's who she's frightened of losing.
One of my colleagues told her not to worry.
But I can't imagine that helped. They must be pretty cold.
- Hold on... - If they're in there, of course.
With that in mind, we're gonna refrain
from asking you too many more questions now, Jay.
This is simply about offering you
the opportunity to give us the information we need
in order to save lives.
Forgive me, and correct me if I'm wrong here,
but you have no proper evidence to suggest
that my client had any migrants in the back of his lorry.
Let's just agree that now.
We have the CMR report.
Yes, a link between two vehicles.
And... that's all you have?
And you've used that one point as a solitary stick to beat him with?
If you mean we've used evidence as a means to question a suspect
then, yes.
You've berated him. Frightened him.
- Set out to upset him. - You don't know that.
I know what I heard out in the corridor.
[Duffy] The tachograph data.
It narrows down the area of the truck's location considerably.
We don't know everything, but in an hour or so we will.
Because we will find it.
By which time, as I've explained...
And this is why I mention the lorry found in France last year...
if there are migrants in the back, these girls or otherwise,
it could well be too late.
So, this is a chance now, Jay, for you to tell us where the trailer is.
Do that, and we can factor your cooperation into the charges you'll face.
Your sentence as an unwitting collaborator could be vastly reduced
if you help us now.
- Understood. - Jay?
- My client understands that too. - Jay?
But the weight of evidence is not there in my view.
You talk about this truck in France. Why?
Because a crime like this, migrants found dead in the back of some lorry,
that's never happened before in this country, not specifically.
That's true, isn't it, Detective?
- There's always a first. - So, that is true.
Criminal enterprises carry out legitimate business all the time.
- That's what you think's happening? - He could have anything in the back.
- He could have had heroin. - Could have had furniture, stationery...
My Little Ponies...
I believe Jay wanted you in here to help negotiate a possible deal.
That's right, isn't it, Jay?
I don't want to speak for you, but that's the impression I got.
He and I have been in here from the start.
So, with respect,
I don't think My Little Ponies...
have ever been part of his thinking.
I think he genuinely wants to help, but I don't think he knows how.
That's where you come in, because he needs your guidance.
- He's getting my guidance. - Yeah. Maybe.
Maybe?
[Duffy] There's the kind of guidance that he's after, that gets us an outcome,
and then there's the more general guidance that sees you assert your authority.
Which is impressive.
Don't get me wrong, we all enjoy watching you on your game,
but it's not exactly helping.
- So I'm wasting your time? - No, you're wasting his.
And the people in the back of his truck.
[Walker] When was the last time you offered my client a drink?
You have a drink. You're all sorted.
He can have one. So can you. It's no problem.
- There's a machine in the corridor. - [Walker] Yes.
And another in the observation room, yes?
No.
There isn't?
No.
So, it's the machine or nothing?
Yes.
It's just that I've been sitting out in that corridor, waiting,
and in all the time I was there, nobody used that machine.
Not once. Including you.
So where did you get your drink?
Sorry?
Where did you get your drink?
Or are you topping up your cup with your own supply of...
cold coffee?
You've lost me, mate. I'm sorry.
- Well, I'm... I'm not a detective. - No.
But tell me,
at the risk of, as you say, wasting everyone's time...
What's in the mug?
- This is not relevant. - He just needs to answer.
- He really doesn't. - No, he does.
Because for all we know, that mug could contain anything.
Might be coffee...
might be something a bit stronger.
And if it is something stronger,
then, uh... all this, as you know,
this entire interview,
all your work, all you've put him through...
well, that goes for nothing.
[laughing]
The mug contains coffee.
I have a flask in my coat because the machine doesn't do the coffee I like.
Or the coffee anyone likes.
If you really don't believe me, try it.
[tense music playing]
[chuckles softly]
So we can get back to the interview now, yes?
We don't have any evidence, remember?
Paul.
[Duffy] You're telling us we've got this wrong so why no comment?
[Jay] You make the trip out.
- You do the pick-up. - [sniffs]
[Jay] You make the trip back.
You do the drop. That's it.
[sighs]
Hugo.
- [Petit] Interview suspended at 3:55 p.m. - Get them back in here.
Vanessa.
If this goes...
when this goes down, you're going with it.
- You leave the room, please? - [scoffs]
Leave the room.
Gentlemen.
[man] Oh, Hugo...
Fucking hell!
And he was the only solicitor available?
[indistinct muttering]
[Warren] Sit down.
- H... - No, leave him.
- He needs to go. He knows he does. - This is Hugo's gig.
- [Ottager] And he's wrecked it. - No, you wrecked it.
- You didn't need to taste his coffee. - It's not coffee.
That's what I'm saying, Paul. You didn't need to do it.
- [Ottager] So this is my fault? - He could have carried on. Couldn't he?
- She was onto it as well. - Who?
That other one. Uh, Addo.
- She wouldn't have tasted it, mate. - Enough!
I think the main question for us is whether Hugo's drinking really matters.
What?
You're gonna fire him, whether it's today or tomorrow,
or on New Year's fucking Eve.
You're gonna do it, so I'm just wondering whether we don't just send him back in.
- Who? - Who?
- Hugo. - [Ottager scoffs]
- That can't be allowed, can it? - This is classic! I've heard it all, now.
Does it really matter if it's allowed?
[chuckles softly] It matters in terms of the future of this team, yes.
See, all I keep coming back to are the people in the back of that lorry.
If they're in the back of there, like we think they are,
then who cares what's allowed?
All that matters... is that we find them.
Now, come on. Kyle, you saw it. Yeah?
He knew the temperature was the same here as it was in France.
Only a degree out.
He knows this.
You know this.
Look, for once...
in here, in these rooms, we have to ask ourselves a difficult question.
Is there anybody better placed to save the lives of those people than Hugo?
And does it really matter what happens to us if he does?
[eerie music playing]
[door buzzing]
That is alcohol in there.
[chuckles]
That's Kostin Vodka, that's called.
And you can buy it, or I do anyway, in the King's Mall.
Then you can take it to the gents and decant it into a coffee flask,
and you can drink it...
at your own discretion, in public...
or...
at work.
All while hoping your colleagues don't notice.
But always, the whole time...
without ever being completely sure...
they haven't cottoned on.
Now, they sent me back in here because I know more about this than anyone.
And in a way, I do.
I was up half of last night, reading everything.
Everything anyone has on you.
Warned for shoplifting at 15.
Nine points on your license.
The wedding to Samira.
But actually, the only thing worth knowing is the location of the truck.
And nobody knows except you.
I just can't... I cannot think of another way.
I can't think of a way to keep asking you the same question.
So I nearly didn't come back in here, to tell the truth.
But then I thought, I owed it to you, Jay.
I owed you an explanation
and I owed everyone through there listening to this, my team,
I owed everyone an explanation of just how I landed myself in this mess,
in the first place.
And if nothing else... If nothing else comes around, then at least...
at least that might be something you can relate to.
[sighs]
So...
the coffee machine, you've seen it yourself.
It's at the end of the corridor, round a slight corner.
You press a button
and then you slip your flask of vodka under the nozzle,
and give it a mix, and off you go.
And if you're feeling cocky in the room through there,
through that... mirror, you can do your top-up without anyone seeing.
They're all too focused on what's happening in here to notice.
Then suddenly it's a habit.
But when you find yourself buying your own mug with your own initial on it,
to stop anyone tasting vodka on the rim of the other ones,
that's when you should really know that you've got a problem, but you never do.
At least I never.
No, you only know when you've got a problem...
You only know when you've let people...
good people, down.
You only know that when you get caught.
[melancholy music playing]
My boss, Natalie, who I like...
who I rate,
she knew I'd been drinking.
She asked me about it a long time ago.
She even tried to help me.
She said, "We'll, erm...
We'll get someone extra,
someone to come into the team.
I'll think up a reason, so we've got cover.
We'll say they're here to do their training."
She knew I had an issue.
I couldn't tell her the truth, not the complete truth, because...
I love my job, and...
because I was trapped.
Like me, you mean?
[Duffy] Like a lot of people.
[smacks lips]
And I had a moment of weakness.
And I'm still having it.
That doesn't mean I'm a bad person.
I don't think any of my team would ever say that I'm a...
a bad person.
And I don't think they'd say that about you, either.
That's why I'm in here, Jay.
In my coat.
That's what I'm saying.
I didn't know.
Genuinely.
I needed the money, mate. I'm not going to lie. But...
But then they called me, didn't they? After I left Dover.
[Duffy] Who?
They got some guy in Customs.
A bloke on the inside tipped them off and they texted me.
They said, "Your lorry's been flagged. They're coming to pull you over."
So you did abandon?
I had to.
I... I had to!
One last time, Jay.
For my sake, personally,
and even more so for yours 'cos it's only gonna help...
Where did you leave that truck?
[clock ticking]
- Just to remind you... - There's a road.
Called Church Lane.
It's a B-road. I think.
There's two gates about 100 meters up. A lay-by thing.
I left it there, under some trees.
Vanessa.
- [door opens] - [Warren] Ma'am, we have the location.
You sure?
[sniffles]
[tense music playing]
[sniffles]
[sighs]
They found it. The trailer.
We've got it.
It's empty.
Cleaned out. No sign of human occupancy.
So that's it.
We charge him. Customs will help with the wording.
"Assistance in the smuggling of illegal substances" or similar.
I want to apologise.
If things got tense between you and I, I, uh... I want to draw a line under that.
- You'll call your man out? - Yes.
I'll call him out and you can press your charges then, but...
give it a minute.
[door closes]
[clears throat] I, erm...
I want to delete the bit about me knowing.
[Tony] How do you mean, delete?
[Hobbs] I don't want people thinking that I knew about Hugo's drinking.
[Tony] They won't.
Didn't you see? Hugo never started the recording.
[soft music playing]
- I'll go. - No, I should go.
No. No, let Paul.
Alright.
Where you going, guv?
To tamper with the evidence.
[door closes]
- Alright? - Hmm.
I like what you said earlier.
[Tony] You're going to have to narrow it down a bit.
[Warren] About us lot, asking ourselves the difficult questions.
[Tony] Oh, right, that. Yeah.
[Warren] We may never get to do this again.
All of us.
So it has to be now.
Ask her for that drink.
[sucks teeth] Uh, she...
- But she might not... - But, no buts.
[Hobbs clears throat]
- [Hobbs] Oh, hey. - [Tony sighs]
There's some bins out the back. Uh...
- Would you mind... - No, I don't mind.
Thank you.
Actually, guv, erm...
Natalie...
Can I ask you a question?
- [Tony] I was just... - [speaker turns off]
[inaudible]
[door opens and closes]
[melancholy music playing]