1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,840 [whirring] 2 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:16,720 [door buzzer] 3 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:20,400 Thanks again for all this, especially on a Sunday. 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,120 What would you usually be doing? Shopping or… 5 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,600 Oh, I don't know. Possibly. 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,560 Well, if we could just rattle through some of these questions 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,400 then we know what we're doing if we press more charges. 8 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,160 When… we press more charges. 9 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,680 [over speaker] The sooner we do, the sooner you can get home. 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,120 And remember, you're not under any kind of caution. Okay? 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:49,040 Mm-hmm. 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,480 [button bleeps] 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,560 Okay. Time is 15:42, Sunday, 8th March. 14 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,440 Present in the room, Detective Constable Vanessa Warren and… 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,800 Julia Bryce. [clears throat] 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,240 [Warren] If you could also give your date of birth. 17 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:08,840 [Julia] Twentieth January 1972. 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,080 [Warren] Thank you. Now, one of the things that's come up 19 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,440 since Philip's conviction for the murder of Max Peeters 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,720 was the name Luca Passero. 21 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,880 Does that name mean anything to you at all? 22 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:20,800 Yes. 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,000 It's okay. Just aim your answers at me. The mic will pick it up. 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:25,640 So, you know that name? Yeah? 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:26,920 Yes. Yes. Yes. 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,440 And how is it that you know that name, that individual? 27 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,400 Um, he was one of Philip's students. 28 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:35,920 Philip being your husband. 29 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:36,840 No. 30 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,000 Yes, well, we're separated. 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,760 So he was a pupil of your former partner, Philip Bryce? 32 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,360 Correct. At Northgreen. 33 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,840 The English language school? 34 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:49,880 Correct. 35 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:50,880 Thank you. 36 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,160 It's okay. You're doing great. 37 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:58,840 I'd forgotten what it's like. 38 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:01,240 Talking to people like you. 39 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,000 Well, we're opening up old wounds here, aren't we? 40 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,000 It's hard. 41 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,080 Julia, do you see Luca Passero in any of the pictures? 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:21,120 On the end. 43 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,800 For the record, Ms. Bryce has indicated Exhibit 1C. 44 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,520 You met Luca in person? 45 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,120 Yes. 46 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,560 At the language school? 47 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:36,200 No, at home. 48 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,920 Philip had one of his barbecues. The one that Max Peeters was at. 49 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,800 The one that was mentioned at the murder trial and… 50 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,160 Luca was there too. 51 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,280 The first time I met him. Shy boy. 52 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,440 Then after, when Max went missing, 53 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,760 or so people thought at the time… 54 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,480 Luca started to come over more and more. 55 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,200 So even after Max Peeters disappeared, 56 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,720 Luca would still come over to see your husband? 57 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,520 -Ex-husband. -Ex-husband. Sorry. 58 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,040 And the last time that you saw Luca? 59 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:13,040 Well… 60 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,400 In the days prior to Philip's arrest… 61 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,040 He went back to Italy, I think. 62 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:22,880 Malpensa? 63 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,000 Malpenso? 64 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,680 Is that it? Is that where he's from? 65 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:29,560 I really haven't… 66 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,960 heard about him at all, to be honest, then or since. 67 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,280 You have to remember, my husband had been arrested for murder and… 68 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,120 everything was in pieces. I was… shattered. 69 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:45,840 Not as in tired. As in… 70 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:49,880 in pieces. 71 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:51,680 It's okay. 72 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:53,760 [exhales deeply] 73 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:56,400 Why? 74 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,120 Julia, we've been contacted by a magistrate in Milan. 75 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,440 They've been looking for Luca Passero. 76 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,080 Now, he did buy a plane ticket to Milan on 28th September. 77 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,520 He also got one for the Gatwick Express, 78 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,640 but there's no evidence that he made either of those journeys. 79 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,120 The Italian police don't think that he ever came home. 80 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,440 [eerie music playing] 81 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:27,600 Please, God, no. 82 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,000 Don't tell me he's killed another one. 83 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,320 [eerie music continues] 84 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,040 [keypad beeping] 85 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,640 [buzzer] 86 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:13,720 [Warren] What you can do here is, 87 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,560 you can help us to get some justice for Luca Passero. 88 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,160 That's the aim. To check what you know against what Philip's already told us. 89 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,520 -Does that make sense? -Mm-hmm. 90 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,520 [Julia] So… you've interviewed him already? Philip? 91 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,800 [Warren] Not me personally. I don't do the big interviews. 92 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,080 I support, or I do the smaller ones. 93 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,120 What, like this, you mean? With witnesses? 94 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,120 So, he's been charged with this as well, has he, or…? 95 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,560 -Not yet. -[Julia sighs] 96 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,360 When will this nightmare ever end? 97 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,280 Besides everything else, Philip has children from his first marriage. 98 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:52,720 Grandchildren. 99 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,880 It's the first thing I said when this came out: people will know what he's done. 100 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,480 Friends, family, people connected with their schools. 101 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,360 It's not just him who bears the brunt. 102 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:02,880 -Julia… -Christ almighty! 103 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,040 I want you to focus. 104 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,480 Stick to the questions. 105 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:11,280 Now… 106 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,120 [Warren] Philip stuck to what he'd said in court about Max Peeters. 107 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,480 Said he'd had a sexual relationship with him, 108 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,280 but that he did not kill him… 109 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,440 Then when we asked him about Luca, 110 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,000 he said that Luca had never even visited the house. 111 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,440 Though he did say that he had kissed Luca 112 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,760 at the college, not long after Max's body was found, 113 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:32,320 in a sort of… sort of… 114 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:33,680 What did he say? Hang on. 115 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,000 "In a sort of passionate state of grief." 116 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,280 Said he'd, "liked Luca a lot, 117 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,520 and I was sad that he'd returned to Italy." 118 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:43,520 Well, there you go. 119 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:44,840 Sorry? 120 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,120 He did go back to Italy. 121 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,160 But as for never visiting the house… 122 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,320 -Well, like I said, simply not true. -Okay. 123 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,120 [Warren] So there were three things that Philip said 124 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,280 in his most recent statement that we wanted to check. 125 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,720 The next one is to do with the jumper. 126 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:05,720 From Zara. 127 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,720 Yeah, you've half-answered me already. 128 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,440 Got a black Merino wool sweater from Zara. 129 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:13,480 A medium. 130 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,640 I don't shop at Zara. 131 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:18,320 What about Philip? 132 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,440 [Julia] Philip doesn't shop at Zara. 133 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,480 Look, I bought all his clothes. 134 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,200 After about two years of marriage, around the time he… gave up, 135 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,120 I bought everything for him. 136 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,280 Not on his card, on our shared account. 137 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,240 And not in a medium, in an extra-large. 138 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:34,520 And certainly not in Zara. 139 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,600 Our thought was that it might've been a present for someone. 140 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Now, our third thing that we wanted to check was your trip to Bristol. 141 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,320 The two of you. 142 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,720 Now, Philip said in his statement that you went to Bristol together 143 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,680 on the 28th and 29th… 144 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:54,600 Of…? 145 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:55,840 September. 146 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,600 We have CCTV of your car there. 147 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,400 We have CCTV from the bottom of a road called Gloucester Road on the Saturday, 148 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,640 and a place near Cabot Circus, which is also in Bristol, on the Sunday. 149 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,360 Green Vauxhall Corsa, second half of 2009. 150 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:13,280 Yeah. 151 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,360 So… you were there? 152 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,600 Yeah, yeah. It's where my mother lives. 153 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,560 She's having her garden redone. 154 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,280 I was there on my own. Philip never came. He never liked her. 155 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,680 He said she's… bad tempered. 156 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:33,360 So he's lying, then? 157 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,680 She is, but that's not her. That's her… her insomnia. 158 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:38,480 Sorry? 159 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:39,920 So he's lying? 160 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,560 Yes, if that's what he's claiming, then yes. 161 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:53,240 Are you married? 162 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,360 No. 163 00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:58,560 Have a partner? 164 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:02,720 Well… 165 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:04,720 [sniffs] 166 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,960 …if you ever do, 167 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,920 make sure you find out what your friends, your parents, your mother, 168 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,200 most importantly… 169 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,320 what they really think of this person 170 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,520 you're planning on binding yourself to, because they won't offer that up. 171 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,000 No, you have to force that information out of them. 172 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,400 But on this one particular point, more than anything else, 173 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,880 they have perspective, they can stand back and… 174 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:31,960 take it all in. 175 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,920 See this relationship for… 176 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,120 what it really is. 177 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,440 And if they sense you're doing the wrong thing… 178 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,480 you need to make sure they tell you, 179 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,080 rather than be all British about it. 180 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,000 Otherwise, you'll end up like me, 181 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,600 sitting on patio chairs in Bristol… 182 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,400 with your mother giving you hour after hour of I-told-you-so's, 183 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,360 all the while forgetting, until now, she never said a thing. 184 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,000 [Julia sniffs tearfully] 185 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,160 [chuckles] 186 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,720 You don't need me lecturing you. 187 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:09,960 No, you're all right. 188 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:11,840 On a Sunday! 189 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:12,920 Julia. 190 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,000 If you want to talk, talk. 191 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,720 It sounds like smart advice. 192 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:22,640 [sniffles] 193 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,200 You're being kind. 194 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,720 If you do find the right man… 195 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:33,520 then follow your heart. 196 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,360 I mean, that is… That's my actual advice. 197 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,000 They don't all end up strangling people with leather belts… 198 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,840 -Hey. -…standing on the back of their necks, 199 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:49,080 throttling them all till there's not a breath left in their bloody bodies. 200 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,160 [Warren] Stop it. We're doing really well here, me and you. 201 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:57,520 I'm not having you go back over stuff that you don't need to. 202 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,520 It's not going to happen. 203 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,480 We'll get this done and get it done right. 204 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,880 Okay, okay, now let's just take a minute, 205 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,440 get ourselves together, and then we can continue. 206 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,520 [Julia crying] Thank you. Thank you. 207 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,200 [sinister music playing] 208 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,720 I can't explain it down the phone. I was hoping you might come here. 209 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:30,240 Yes. I'm aware what day it is. 210 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,160 If it wasn't important I wouldn't be calling on a Sunday. 211 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,120 Thank you. Do you want to give me a rough ETA or… 212 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:46,800 Fine. 213 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,320 [phone beeps off] 214 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,160 Are you sure he's dead? 215 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,240 We're treating it that way. 216 00:11:58,840 --> 00:11:59,760 But… 217 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,600 If there's no proof, then it strikes me… 218 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,320 His phone was switched off on the 28th. 219 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,080 He hasn't withdrawn any money or anything from any shop, 220 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,640 hasn't posted anything on social media, and he was on that all the time. 221 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,320 His life, it just… 222 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,400 stopped. 223 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,320 [keypad beeping] 224 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:20,280 [door buzzer] 225 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:24,520 Thanks for this. 226 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,960 -So? -So, this is Julia. 227 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,280 Bryce's ex-wife. DC Warren and I are-- 228 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,880 Comparing her statement against Philip's, yeah. And? 229 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,640 Well, DC Warren was going through the list of points we were given. 230 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,040 That's all been going fine. 231 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,840 Then, Miss Bryce starts saying this whole thing about how 232 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,080 being married to a killer is, well, 233 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:49,600 far from ideal. 234 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,000 Then at the end of her speech, 235 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,160 she mentions how her husband was someone who strangled people. 236 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:58,720 Which he did. 237 00:12:58,800 --> 00:12:59,640 Yes. 238 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,720 Yeah. 239 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:02,880 -Yes. -Yeah. 240 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,840 He strangled Max Peeters with a leather belt. 241 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,960 Yes, by standing on the back of the neck and pulling upwards. 242 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:10,400 Yes. That's what happened. 243 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:11,320 Yes. 244 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,440 But some of the details she mentioned are not details she should know. 245 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,240 They never came up in Philip's interview, or at his trial. 246 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,920 That was only in the pathologist's report. 247 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,000 Which she's never seen? 248 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:30,960 Right, so Vanessa's clocked it, yeah? 249 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,280 So why haven't you told her? 250 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:40,080 The interview hasn't stopped since it became a thing. 251 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,600 Then we need to stop it. 252 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,000 Do we? 253 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,000 -Yeah, we might need to caution her. -But we also might not. 254 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,320 Nobody knows I've spotted what I've spotted. 255 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,440 She trusts DC Warren, 256 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,400 and she's started speaking very freely, in my view. 257 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,400 We can just let her carry on incriminating herself. 258 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:04,480 Can't we? 259 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,520 [Reiss] I get it, it's Sunday. I get it. But… 260 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,560 we are your team too, you know? 261 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,320 Yeah, I could explain it down the phone, Tony, 262 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,920 but it might be one of those where you're better off coming in. 263 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,040 [keypad beeping] 264 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,360 [buzzer] 265 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:25,640 What are we dealing with? 266 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,920 When did you first realize that Philip was into his male students? 267 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:37,480 [scoffs] 268 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,520 Well, when I did that… 269 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:42,800 that thing with his thumb. 270 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,200 While he was asleep, I'd get his phone, 271 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,360 put his thumb on it so the lock would open, 272 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,240 and I'd read all these WhatsApp messages to Max, 273 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,440 messages to Luca… 274 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,280 -Are you sure they were to Luca? -Absolutely. 275 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,280 -We don't have any record of-- -No, I deleted them, all of them. 276 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:04,520 Without telling him. 277 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,520 So that when he went to send the next one he'd find the others were gone. 278 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,760 Wifey's way of saying, "I'm onto you" 279 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,720 without actually having to confront it in person. 280 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:17,720 And it made you angry? 281 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,800 No, I was… 282 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,160 embarrassed for him more than anything else. 283 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,680 The never-ending… flattery. 284 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,000 Mortifying. 285 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,160 And what did they say, the messages? 286 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,680 What you want is for more of these things to come up in their conversation. 287 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,000 Other facts, known only to the killer. 288 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,760 Question is, are we allowed to let this continue? 289 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,200 [Myerscough] 'Course we are. 290 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,720 But we now have reason to believe she may be the killer. 291 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,920 Yes, but Vanessa doesn't know that, so until she comes out, we're fine. 292 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,160 It's like that philosophy thing, isn't it? 293 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,440 If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one there to hear it… No? 294 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:06,840 Does it make a sound? 295 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:09,200 Yeah. 296 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,440 They don't know what they don't know. So let them get on with it. 297 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,640 That's what I said. If she knows we're onto her she'll stop talking. 298 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,240 Here we go. Look. 299 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,840 "The killer, when using a leather belt, pulled upwards and tightened from behind." 300 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,080 -You got that? -Mm-hmm. 301 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,800 The fact killer "stood on the base of the neck to gain purchase." 302 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,160 She said that. 303 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:33,400 Did she? 304 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,400 She said "stood on their neck." 305 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:37,960 Okay. 306 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,360 And this… Rohypnol? 307 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,920 "Rohypnol was ingested by Max Peeters at, or prior to strangulation." 308 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:49,960 That hasn't been disclosed? 309 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,960 Hang on. Why would she have had Rohypnol? 310 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:06,600 How are you feeling? 311 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,720 Want to stop, get a cup of tea, take a break? 312 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,600 There's only so much more I can help you with. 313 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,560 May as well press on till the end, 314 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,800 providing this is useful to you in some way. 315 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,000 No, it's great. 316 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:24,960 You don't say! 317 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,480 [Myerscough] Let's make triple sure. 318 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:32,760 [elevator dings] 319 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,480 [Hobbs] So we've got Philip Bryce, 320 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,240 on the brink of being charged for his second murder, 321 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,200 but we're now thinking not only is he innocent, 322 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,440 he might not have committed the first one either? 323 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,440 The one he was sent down for in November? 324 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:49,440 Yes. 325 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,120 Then we've got his wife in with Vanessa, accidentally confessing to all of this, 326 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,920 and all without Vanessa realizing that's what's going on? 327 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,000 -Yeah. -And yet… 328 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,200 Vanessa's actually doing a pretty great job? 329 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:02,960 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 330 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,920 Yeah, I thought that's what you said on the phone. 331 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,680 We just got to make sure that we can use what she's saying. 332 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,600 If she doesn't know she's being questioned for murder… 333 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,680 She's not being questioned for murder. That's not the call. 334 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,080 Not until I've made it. 335 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,000 [Warren] Did Luca tell you that he was going back to Italy? 336 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,600 No, Philip told me. 337 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:27,400 How did Philip feel about that, can you remember? 338 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:28,720 He seemed, um… 339 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,480 surprisingly upset. 340 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,400 That was the impression he gave. 341 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,360 Although if Philip wanted everyone to think Luca was going back to Italy, 342 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,560 if that were some form of distraction like I think you're suggesting, then… 343 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:47,480 maybe his reaction was just an act. 344 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,120 Oh… 345 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,080 Christ, I don't want to think like this. Like him. 346 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:54,440 It's okay, we're nearly done. 347 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,520 The minute they break, I want you cueing up the relevant bits of the tape. 348 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,400 It's not that I don't believe you, but we need to double-check these contradictions. 349 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,600 Then we can arrest her, at least for the murder of Luca Passero. 350 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,360 That'll buy us time to work out what to do about Philip 351 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,200 and the murder of Max Peeters. 352 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,840 Why, Julia, if Philip liked these guys, would he have killed them? 353 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,160 Because he was tortured. 354 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,080 The poor man chased and chased, and… 355 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,680 none of these beautiful young boys ever wanted to know. 356 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,560 Story of his life, so he ended up… 357 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,160 He said all this to me once. 358 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,200 In the house in Dorset where we sometimes go. Let it all out. 359 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,120 "It's bad enough I feel the things that I feel, 360 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,000 but they barely even look." 361 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,080 …he said to me, in this great… 362 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,800 outpouring of self-pity. 363 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:06,880 To which I said… 364 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:08,680 "Well… 365 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,480 how do you think I feel?" 366 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,240 [sinister music playing] 367 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,360 Rejection. That's my theory. 368 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,800 "If I can't have them, no one can." 369 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:26,240 This… 370 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,040 This has all been very helpful. 371 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,000 Thank you. 372 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:33,440 You've been honest… 373 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:35,560 brave… 374 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,600 It's just a shame it's a Sunday and there aren't more people here to see it. 375 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,240 Is there anything else that you want to tell me about Luca? 376 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,760 Right, well, then I'll quickly summarize and you're free to go. 377 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,160 Okay. [chuckles softly] 378 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,480 [blows nose] 379 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,640 You met Luca at the house. 380 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,080 Yes. 381 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,360 You were alone in Bristol on 28th and 29th September. 382 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,280 Yes. 383 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,480 -Philip wasn't there. -No. 384 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,400 This is something your mother can confirm? 385 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:13,440 Correct. 386 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:15,240 Actually, 387 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,920 if it helps, 388 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,640 I always go into Boots at Cribbs Causeway 389 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,680 on the way to see Mum, pick up her pills. 390 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,280 And that will have CCTV and… 391 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:26,600 Philip won't be on that. 392 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,200 She's full-on, but she's not stupid. 393 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,280 In rubbishing his alibi, she's also creating her own. 394 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:36,320 Wow. 395 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,240 Okay, interview ends at 17:32. 396 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,320 [beep] 397 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,080 I'll walk you back down. 398 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:56,960 Jamie. 399 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,520 I won't come to court, just so you know. 400 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,280 As a witness, yes, but not every day. I just can't. 401 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:08,360 I get that. 402 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,880 I need this to be over for me. 403 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,040 Vanessa? 404 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,400 Can we just hold on a minute? 405 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,920 [voices in fast-forward] 406 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,760 [hits key] 407 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,040 Look, I bought all his clothes. 408 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,000 After about two years of marriage, around the time he… 409 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,120 [hits key] 410 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,800 [voices in fast-forward] 411 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,320 Then follow your heart. I mean, that… 412 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:50,080 That is my actual advice. 413 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,160 This is it. 414 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,040 They don't all end up strangling people with leather belts… 415 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,360 standing on the back of their necks, 416 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:03,200 throttling them all till there's not a breath left in their bloody bodies. 417 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,440 That's enough. 418 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,360 17:38. That's the time we put in the notes. 419 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,320 This is me, making the call. 420 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:19,640 Julia Bryce. 421 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,760 I'm arresting you for the murder of Luca Passero. 422 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,280 You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defense if you do not mention… 423 00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:28,160 But I've just been questioned. 424 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,320 What is this? You said it was informal. 425 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,400 [Myerscough] Anything you say may be given in evidence, is that clear? 426 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,760 [Julia] No, it's not clear. It's not clear at all. 427 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,000 [sinister music playing] 428 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,480 She mentioned details only the killer would know. More than one. 429 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,040 Kyle spotted it. 430 00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:58,880 The belt being leather. 431 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,880 Foot on the back of the neck. 432 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:01,880 The angle. 433 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,280 I'm sorry, Guv. Didn't clock it. 434 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,680 Well, that's what the observation room's for, isn't it? 435 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:10,600 -What you did was great. -Yeah. 436 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,640 If we'd have stopped it, we'd have to charge her. 437 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,280 So we just let you continue while we were double-checking. 438 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:16,680 She was chatting for England, 439 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,240 which is credit to you, the relationship you had with her. 440 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,120 She said things about the Peeters murder only the killer would know, 441 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,640 and if she killed Peeters, 442 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,440 there's a high likelihood that she killed Luca. 443 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,200 So we've got a double murderer on our hands. 444 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:36,800 Serial killer. 445 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,480 No, a serial killer needs three victims, 446 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,800 killed over a period greater than 30 days. 447 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,040 He's right. 448 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,040 You mean less than 30 days? 449 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:47,360 No, that's a spree killer. 450 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,360 He's right. 451 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,000 So what happens now? 452 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,760 We bring her back tomorrow. 453 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,960 We hit her with the facts. 454 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,720 Push for a confession. 455 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,960 So who do we want doing the interview? 456 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,840 Well, we want to cash in on all that lovely rapport. 457 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,120 We want Vanessa. 458 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,120 But we'll have everyone in, please. Usual time. 459 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,520 [eerie music playing] 460 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,720 [sighs] 461 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:01,960 One thing I look forward to on a Sunday is chocolate after five-a-side. 462 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,560 I never got to play five-a-side but I've decided that's not my fault, 463 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,320 so therefore… 464 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,760 why not treat myself to a Galaxy, anyway? 465 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,040 And they say Keith Richards is rock and roll! 466 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,800 It's the biggest case we've ever done. 467 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,520 Well, it's up there anyway. 468 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,800 Go on, then. What's up? 469 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:33,560 I just… 470 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,440 feel like I was the only one who wasn't in on it. 471 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,080 That's what I like, being in on things. 472 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,960 That's my thing. 473 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,720 Now everyone's acting like I've been given this big break, this interview, 474 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,440 but it don't work like that for me. 475 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,760 No, you've got her cornered on double murder. 476 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,160 No, we have. 477 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,040 All of us. 478 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,440 I just want to be part of the team. 479 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,120 I'm not ambitious. 480 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,200 But you're not allowed to say that you're not ambitious, not these days. 481 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,200 Do you want me to do it? 482 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,600 I'll look like I've bottled it. 483 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,600 Or we could do it together. 484 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,200 That'll look like I've bottled it and I can't admit it. 485 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:23,760 Maybe I am bottling it. 486 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,120 I've never done this before. 487 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,640 I've never asked for it either. 488 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,160 What does she mean about rapport, anyway? There'll be none left. 489 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,320 She'll think I was trying to trap her, which I wasn't. 490 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,200 Well… 491 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,400 I'm glad someone's happy. 492 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,360 Well, I am happy. 493 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,400 I'm always the one getting advice from you, aren't I? 494 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:53,880 Finally it's my go. 495 00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:57,960 [clears throat] Right… 496 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,800 First, not only can you do it, you'll do it brilliantly. 497 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,240 Second, as to whether you want to do it or not… 498 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:11,240 Get over yourself. It's not an invitation, it's an order. 499 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,960 And those young men and their families could do with this, 500 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,640 so you get in there and you show us how talented you are, 501 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,560 and if you don't want to do it next time, then that's a different story. 502 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,840 -Is that it? -That's the thrust of it. Yeah. 503 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,440 Yeah, it sounded good. Convincing. Still bricking it, though, but thank you. 504 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,560 No problem. 505 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,760 Don't think I've forgotten, by the way. 506 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,400 -What did she say? -[elevator dings] 507 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,720 Oh, no. This little conversation we're having, it's not about me. 508 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,600 -Tony! -No, it's about you. 509 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,520 You did ask her, didn't you? 510 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,480 Well, you were there. You saw me. 511 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:50,400 And? 512 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:04,880 [ambient music playing] 513 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,760 [ambient music continues] 514 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,560 [roar of traffic] 515 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,160 [birdsong] 516 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,960 [indistinct conversation] 517 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,680 [officer] This way, please. 518 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,240 -[keypad beeping] -[door buzzer] 519 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,600 -[officer] Any tea, coffee? -[solicitor] Let's just get on with this. 520 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,160 [sighs deeply] 521 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,480 [exhales] 522 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,360 [buzzer] 523 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,040 [beep] 524 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,760 Interview commences at 9:47 a.m. on 9th March. 525 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,520 Present in the room, Detective Constable Warren and… 526 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,960 Nasreen Shah, solicitor for Ms. Bryce. 527 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,080 And? 528 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,240 I'm not talking to you. 529 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,400 Julia Bryce. 530 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,600 Julia, as you know, 531 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,560 we've decided to arrest you for the murder of Luca Passero, 532 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,080 that is, after my colleagues reviewed some of the things that you mentioned 533 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,400 in the witness interview that you gave yesterday. 534 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,080 What I'd like to do now is go back ov… [clears throat] 535 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,200 Go over, sorry… 536 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,600 some of those details with you now. 537 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,400 While you try to find your place there, 538 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,600 I think we should take a moment to check protocol here. 539 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,200 You brought my client in here yesterday without caution, 540 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,000 and yet within minutes of her leaving this room, 541 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,320 you're springing murder charges on her. 542 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:34,640 Yes, but like I said… 543 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,760 You must be certain you know what you're doing here, 544 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,680 positive that what was said yesterday can be used in court, 545 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,040 and that it doesn't undermine what gets said in here today, 546 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,000 because if it does, you watch me… 547 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,080 I'll take it, 548 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,920 and I'll use it to make this whole thing go away. 549 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,880 It's Vanessa, isn't it? 550 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,560 Do you understand where I'm coming from, Vanessa? 551 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,960 It's like one of those football matches, isn't it? 552 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,240 Where your team can't get a kick at the ball. 553 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,080 You can relate to that, can you? 554 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,280 [chuckles softly] 555 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:10,560 [clears throat] 556 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,840 [Shah] See, I'd hate to false start, and you… 557 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,200 you seem a bit nervous to me, so… 558 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,960 I am a bit nervous. 559 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,720 But not for the reasons you're talking about. 560 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,280 We've checked all that, followed all the guidelines. 561 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,720 The decision to arrest was made after the interview 562 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,520 as they wanted to check the tape. 563 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,560 Now, I'm nervous because even with all this evidence, 564 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,400 I'll come up against a woman who won't confess. 565 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,440 'Cause then we'll go to trial, and like she says herself, 566 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,760 there's a load of stress and anxiety that comes with a trial. 567 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,840 Those are tough things to sit through. 568 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,160 So that's what I'm concerned about, Nasreen. 569 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,560 It is Nasreen, isn't it? 570 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,160 [Warren] Julia… 571 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,400 you said yesterday 572 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,280 that Philip used a leather belt to strangle all his victims. 573 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,280 -Did I? -Yes. 574 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,840 16:12, you said exactly that. 575 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,320 You also said that he was strangled from behind. 576 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,000 Um, I don't think so. 577 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,880 [Warren] You don't remember saying it or you don't remember doing it? 578 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,480 You also said 579 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,360 that the killer ended up standing on the back of their necks. 580 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,200 How do you know all these things? 581 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:43,640 You tell me. 582 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,200 I don't know how you know. I am asking you. 583 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,760 Philip… would have told me. 584 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,120 Really? When? 585 00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,040 Afterwards. 586 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:00,720 But when, afterwards? 587 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,920 After his arrest. 588 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,000 So Philip told you that he'd killed Max Peeters after his arrest? 589 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:14,520 Yeah. 590 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,640 We've checked all the contact you've had with Philip, 591 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:18,800 subsequent to his arrest, and there's nothing. 592 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,680 You haven't called or messaged him since. He hasn't called or messaged you either. 593 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,960 He has one call to a 19-year-old man called Alvaro who works near Paddington. 594 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,120 And this Alvaro guy, he's not come into contact with you either. 595 00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:33,600 Luckily, I reckon. 596 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:34,800 For Alvaro. 597 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,800 So once again… 598 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:43,640 How did you know? 599 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,080 Oh, no, no. Sorry. 600 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,480 Um… 601 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,160 The truth is, yes… 602 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,120 He did tell me, but… 603 00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,960 he told me beforehand. 604 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,080 Before it happened? 605 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,440 It's nonsense. 606 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,080 It's nonsense that's hard to disprove. 607 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,040 [Julia] I didn't take it seriously, otherwise I would have… 608 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,440 said something, warned someone. 609 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,760 If I'd thought that, that would have been my moral obligation. 610 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,200 But you can't blame yourself. You mustn't. My therapist has said this to me. 611 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,240 She said… 612 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,840 I have to keep reminding myself that it was him… 613 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,720 not me. 614 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,160 Philip told you that he was going to murder Max Peeters? 615 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,080 You then forgot he'd told you that? 616 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,000 And you're only just remembering it now? 617 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,600 -That's what you want me to believe? -No. 618 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,200 No. please, believe what you want. I'm just… 619 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:01,360 telling you what he said. 620 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:06,720 It's funny, that. 621 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,120 You've no idea that you know something, and then suddenly… 622 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,200 -There it is. -Exactly. 623 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,920 Let me give you another example. 624 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,680 When I got home last night I was trying to take my mind off all this. 625 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:25,520 I did a load of things. 626 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:27,440 I rang Mum. 627 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:32,040 Made food I didn't eat. And watched telly I didn't watch. 628 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,600 'Cause you see, with me, I… 629 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,360 I made this promise to myself that I wouldn't take the work home with me, 630 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,360 because it's ruined things in the past. 631 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:42,960 Relationships. 632 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,120 That kind of thing. 633 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:47,800 Last night, I could… 634 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,520 I could feel it all building again. The stress. 635 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,200 I could feel my body telling me, 636 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,840 "You're not sleeping tonight, it's not going to happen." 637 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,680 But then I remembered something that you said in here about your mum, 638 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,440 and her insomnia, and the medicine that she takes, 639 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,200 and I remembered I'd had an ex like that. 640 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,840 He couldn't sleep either. 641 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,160 So I'm in the bathroom and I'm rooting around, 642 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,360 to see if I've still got anything, and I do. 643 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,680 A small bottle of pills that he used to take. 644 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,200 So I take it too. 645 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:21,920 Do you know what? 646 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,480 I'm in bed and within five minutes, 647 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,200 as if by magic, 648 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,160 I'm gone. 649 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,040 [sighs] 650 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,640 So I'm up this morning, fresh as, 651 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:36,960 and I'm looking at the pills thinking, "They're so good, they're dangerous." 652 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,560 And I'm reading the ingredients. 653 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,720 Flunitrazepam. That's what it's called. 654 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,400 "That's funny," I thought. 655 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,920 "Flunitrazepam." 656 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:55,800 Flunitrazepam. 657 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,120 "I know that word, and I don't know why." 658 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,000 Then that thing that's just happened to you, happened to me. 659 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,160 You've no idea that you know, 660 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,640 and then suddenly… 661 00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:11,880 there it is. 662 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,720 Flunitrazepam is in your file. 663 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,480 Flunitrazepam is Rohypnol. 664 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,840 Rohypnol was found in Max Peeters' body. 665 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,200 So my only question is… 666 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:35,680 Why? 667 00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:43,480 [tense music playing] 668 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,240 Maybe he was taking it. 669 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,760 Not in this quantity. 670 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,800 Or… 671 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,280 given it. 672 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,000 By? 673 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,080 By Philip. 674 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:06,160 Mmm. 675 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,200 Philip was never prescribed it. 676 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,360 Maybe Philip… 677 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,040 took it from my bag. 678 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,880 But it wasn't in your bag. 679 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,160 Was it? 680 00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:24,480 You pick it up on the way to Bristol to see your mother. 681 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,240 There'd be no reason for you to bring it back with you. 682 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,640 Everyone through there 683 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:34,880 was convinced it was you last night. 684 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:37,600 I was, too. 685 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,960 I just kept wondering how. 686 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,360 Even if you could get the belt around their necks, 687 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,920 even if you did know the details, 688 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,840 these are fully grown men, they would have fought. 689 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,520 Now we know, don't we? 690 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:02,800 Here. 691 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,440 Put enough of that… 692 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,520 in their system, and as if by magic, they are gone. 693 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,800 Want to keep going? 694 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,560 You've no idea what I've been through. 695 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,720 Want to talk about the belt? 696 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:32,920 Why, after Philip's arrest, 697 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,240 did you buy a men's leather belt from M&S? 698 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,560 And not on the shared account. 699 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:41,520 On your own. 700 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,320 Bit like what Philip does when he goes to Zara 701 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,560 and he's buying something he's hoping to hide. 702 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,200 Was it because your fingerprints were on the first belt? 703 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,280 The one you used to strangle Max Peeters? 704 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,080 Did Luca take Flunitrazepam too? 705 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,440 Was it really that these men didn't want to know Philip? 706 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,000 Or was it that Philip never wanted to know you? 707 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:10,920 Stop. 708 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,520 That he didn't know the person that you'd become? 709 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,240 -Stop. -I mean, I get it. 710 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,160 Stop. 711 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:18,600 That's a life sentence in itself. 712 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:34,360 [clears throat] 713 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,200 I've got an idea. 714 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:44,680 Let's take five minutes. 715 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,080 Get ourselves together. 716 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:50,160 Then you can come back 717 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:53,040 and you can tell me what happened. 718 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,280 You can tell me how you bought Luca's plane ticket. 719 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,760 Tell me where to find Luca's body 720 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,960 for his mum and dad after all these months. 721 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,560 'Cause you know what they say, don't ya? 722 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,840 It's not just you who bears the brunt. 723 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,440 [eerie music playing] 724 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:44,720 My mother said… 725 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,480 "If you had to kill anyone…" 726 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,600 He never gave us a chance. 727 00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:01,880 He withheld it. 728 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,240 We never got to have anything. 729 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,240 So he knows all about it. 730 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,280 Philip knows that you killed them? 731 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,480 Deep down, he knows. 732 00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:21,760 And he knows it was because of him. 733 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,200 Why do you think in all this time he's never pointed the finger at me? 734 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,000 If you can't have him… 735 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,240 no one can. 736 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,120 Interview suspended at 10:01. 737 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:51,520 [beep] 738 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,280 [Myerscough] Right. 739 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,400 Excellent. Now it's all about drawing out the definitive statements. 740 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,880 "Yes, I killed him." "Yes, the pills were mine". 741 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,760 Belt and braces, but… 742 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:21,400 I'm impressed. 743 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,440 Thank you, ma'am. 744 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,400 We should get you doing more of these. Not just supporting, taking the lead. 745 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,520 -Oh, I-- -I could put you in with Tony. 746 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:30,760 I think I'm okay, to be honest. 747 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,160 You and me could partner. 748 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:34,960 No. 749 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,280 No, thank you. 750 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,200 Well, we don't need to talk about it now. It's… 751 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,640 It's just… 752 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,800 It's a lot of work to take on, that's all, 753 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,640 and if I take it on, I'll take it home. 754 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:49,840 And I don't want that. 755 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:51,960 Oh. Is everything okay? 756 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:53,800 Everything's great, ma'am. 757 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,880 Just trying to keep it that way. 758 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,080 -Let's talk about this tomorrow. -I'm not in tomorrow. 759 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,240 Tomorrow's Tuesday. 760 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,680 I worked Sunday, remember? 761 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,080 [Hobbs] Yeah. 762 00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:10,320 I forgot. 763 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,800 [eerie music playing] 764 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,360 [beep] 765 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,920 [Warren] Interview resumes at 10:09. 766 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,720 Present in the room, Detective Constable Vanessa Warren… 767 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,440 [eerie music continues]