1 00:00:29,750 --> 00:00:32,709 [thunder rumbling] 2 00:00:43,333 --> 00:00:46,333 [airplane droning] 3 00:00:49,917 --> 00:00:52,917 [instrumental music] 4 00:01:13,208 --> 00:01:15,875 [Mark Cromer] The premise was 16 years ago. 5 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,500 Could a virus, a sexually-transmitted virus 6 00:01:19,583 --> 00:01:24,208 finally accomplish what 35-40 years 7 00:01:24,291 --> 00:01:26,041 of vigorous prosecution 8 00:01:26,125 --> 00:01:28,959 by the United States Justice Department couldn't? 9 00:01:29,041 --> 00:01:31,458 And that is, end as we knew it, 10 00:01:31,542 --> 00:01:34,083 the multi-billion dollar commercial pornography 11 00:01:34,166 --> 00:01:35,417 industry in the United States. 12 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:37,333 It was a real moment, sort of, 13 00:01:37,417 --> 00:01:39,500 the Cuban Missile Crisis, if you will, 14 00:01:39,583 --> 00:01:40,792 for the-for the porn industry. 15 00:01:40,875 --> 00:01:44,417 It was sort of, "Wow, what's gonna happen?" 16 00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:45,834 "This is scary." 17 00:01:45,917 --> 00:01:48,750 ♪ The holy water the holy holy water ♪ 18 00:01:48,834 --> 00:01:52,667 ♪ Wash down over me ♪ 19 00:01:52,750 --> 00:01:55,792 ♪ The holy water the holy holy water ♪ 20 00:01:55,875 --> 00:01:59,792 ♪ Wash down over me ♪ 21 00:01:59,875 --> 00:02:02,583 ♪ I've been wicked yup I've been wicked ♪ 22 00:02:02,667 --> 00:02:06,166 ♪ Just the same as anyone ♪ 23 00:02:06,250 --> 00:02:10,208 ♪ And I can't see the sun ♪ 24 00:02:10,291 --> 00:02:13,375 By the '90s, the industry had risen 25 00:02:13,458 --> 00:02:15,542 to total acceptance in society's eyes. 26 00:02:15,625 --> 00:02:16,792 ♪ I'm afraid ♪ 27 00:02:16,875 --> 00:02:20,792 ♪ Of the Karma Thunderbolt ♪ 28 00:02:20,875 --> 00:02:24,333 ♪ The Karma Thunderbolt ♪ 29 00:02:24,417 --> 00:02:26,375 ♪ The Karma Thunderbolt ♪♪ 30 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,542 [Bill Margold] We were no longer outlaws, 31 00:02:29,625 --> 00:02:32,208 we were a common acceptable commodity. 32 00:02:32,291 --> 00:02:34,083 We were being marketed everywhere, 33 00:02:34,166 --> 00:02:35,750 we were being sold everywhere. 34 00:02:35,834 --> 00:02:37,625 There was this whole mainstreaming 35 00:02:37,709 --> 00:02:39,750 of porn that happened in the late '90s. 36 00:02:39,834 --> 00:02:42,000 [upbeat music] 37 00:02:42,083 --> 00:02:44,917 In preparation, you followed around a porn star? 38 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,750 His name is Ron Jeremy. 39 00:02:46,834 --> 00:02:50,166 That is the first naked lady in the history of radio. 40 00:02:50,250 --> 00:02:52,709 Ginger Lynn would show up for a signing. 41 00:02:52,792 --> 00:02:55,250 And you have 500 guys at the door waiting to get a signature, 42 00:02:55,333 --> 00:02:58,333 and maybe 30 girls. 43 00:02:58,417 --> 00:03:00,709 This was a profound cultural shift 44 00:03:00,792 --> 00:03:03,792 in an amazingly short amount of time 45 00:03:03,875 --> 00:03:06,542 since Hugh Hefner had launched "Playboy" in his kitchen. 46 00:03:06,625 --> 00:03:07,625 [Tom Byron] When I got in the business, 47 00:03:07,709 --> 00:03:09,500 I actually thought that 48 00:03:09,583 --> 00:03:11,208 the two industry would eventually merge 49 00:03:11,291 --> 00:03:12,792 because that seemed to be where it was heading. 50 00:03:12,875 --> 00:03:14,375 The budgets were getting bigger, 51 00:03:14,458 --> 00:03:15,834 the acting was getting better. 52 00:03:15,917 --> 00:03:19,417 And I thought, I could end up 53 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:21,583 doing a fuckin' three-way with Robert De Niro. 54 00:03:21,667 --> 00:03:23,083 [instrumental music] 55 00:03:25,333 --> 00:03:27,333 I actually thought that. 56 00:03:27,417 --> 00:03:31,417 In 1991, there were 1200, uh, adult videos 57 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:33,208 produced per year. 58 00:03:33,291 --> 00:03:37,667 By the time of 1998, we were easily up to 59 00:03:37,750 --> 00:03:40,375 six or seven thousand per year. 60 00:03:40,458 --> 00:03:44,333 It went from being family and friends, 61 00:03:44,417 --> 00:03:47,875 and it became a business. 62 00:03:47,959 --> 00:03:50,750 [Mark Cromer] Porn really, as a-a massive 63 00:03:50,834 --> 00:03:52,959 national industry, took off. 64 00:03:53,041 --> 00:03:56,000 [vocalizing] 65 00:04:03,542 --> 00:04:04,959 [Jim South] When video was introduced, 66 00:04:05,041 --> 00:04:07,125 the industry exploded. 67 00:04:07,208 --> 00:04:09,834 Those were the days where the, the money really flowed. 68 00:04:09,917 --> 00:04:11,667 It wasn't bad at all. 69 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:14,375 Continuous adult entertainment 24 hours a day. 70 00:04:14,458 --> 00:04:16,417 Welcome to the "Erogenous Zone" on Spice. 71 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:18,834 [man on TV] Hard bodies on Playboy TV. 72 00:04:18,917 --> 00:04:21,625 [vocalizing] 73 00:04:28,458 --> 00:04:30,667 Great money. 74 00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:33,709 The '90s were awesome, right? 75 00:04:33,792 --> 00:04:37,041 I-I think I was, I was making up to like almost 70,000 a year, 76 00:04:37,125 --> 00:04:39,583 just performing. 77 00:04:39,667 --> 00:04:42,709 I'm Jenna Jameson, and I'm an adult film star. 78 00:04:42,792 --> 00:04:44,709 -This girl could be a model. -Thank you. 79 00:04:44,792 --> 00:04:46,375 I mean, she doesn't have to be in porno. 80 00:04:46,458 --> 00:04:47,959 I'm taken care of-- 81 00:04:48,041 --> 00:04:49,125 Oh, you mean, you're makin' a lot of money? 82 00:04:49,208 --> 00:04:50,959 Well, I'm under contract with Wicked Pictures. 83 00:04:51,041 --> 00:04:52,417 Yeah, but, well, how much money could they p... 84 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:54,000 I heard some girls only get, like, a $150 a picture. 85 00:04:54,083 --> 00:04:55,375 Oh. Oh, no, no. 86 00:04:55,458 --> 00:04:57,250 -You get tons of money? -I get... Oh. 87 00:04:57,333 --> 00:04:59,125 Why would I be doin' this if I wasn't? 88 00:04:59,208 --> 00:05:00,125 [Stern] I don't know. 89 00:05:00,208 --> 00:05:02,500 I think that I was a very 90 00:05:02,583 --> 00:05:04,041 different kind of porn girl. 91 00:05:04,125 --> 00:05:07,333 I looked at it in a different way. 92 00:05:07,417 --> 00:05:10,959 It wasn't about the money. I was in college, 93 00:05:11,041 --> 00:05:13,417 and I had a full-ride scholarship to college. 94 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:15,125 [man] Your major. Go ahead, Tricia. 95 00:05:15,208 --> 00:05:16,959 I'm majoring in pre-medicine. 96 00:05:17,041 --> 00:05:19,667 I want to go to medical school and be a doctor. 97 00:05:19,750 --> 00:05:21,458 [Tricia Devereaux] So, it wasn't about paying 98 00:05:21,542 --> 00:05:23,250 for college or anything like that. 99 00:05:23,333 --> 00:05:27,625 It was about, I had been that perfect little Stepford child 100 00:05:27,709 --> 00:05:31,208 when I was young, you know, perfect grade As 101 00:05:31,291 --> 00:05:35,500 became a med-school student, was a national level musician 102 00:05:35,583 --> 00:05:38,583 that traveled across the country, um, 103 00:05:38,667 --> 00:05:43,083 and to Europe, um, so, it was kind of empowering. 104 00:05:43,166 --> 00:05:46,500 I mean, I was kind of definitely that college nerd 105 00:05:46,583 --> 00:05:49,709 that nobody would have ever expected it of, 106 00:05:49,792 --> 00:05:52,375 and everybody always used to say that I was like the girl 107 00:05:52,458 --> 00:05:54,083 that shouldn't be doing this that was awesome at it. 108 00:05:54,166 --> 00:05:55,458 I had never been with anyone 109 00:05:55,542 --> 00:05:57,625 until I got engaged to my husband. 110 00:05:57,709 --> 00:05:59,625 It was, it was definitely exciting. 111 00:05:59,709 --> 00:06:00,709 [upbeat music] 112 00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:05,417 [Ginger Lynn] I just had the best time. 113 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:08,041 I'm thinking, "Oh, my God, I'm being paid to do this 114 00:06:08,125 --> 00:06:09,875 and I'm having the best time of my life?" 115 00:06:09,959 --> 00:06:11,917 Yes and yes. 116 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,000 [screaming] 117 00:06:14,083 --> 00:06:15,500 [Tricia Devereaux] There was a core group. 118 00:06:15,583 --> 00:06:17,125 -Hi, Mom! -We knew each other. 119 00:06:17,208 --> 00:06:18,500 We trusted each other. 120 00:06:24,667 --> 00:06:25,750 [Bill Margold] I referred to all 121 00:06:25,834 --> 00:06:27,375 of them as kids. I referred to them all 122 00:06:27,458 --> 00:06:29,458 as "Over-aged juvenile delinquents" 123 00:06:29,542 --> 00:06:31,375 in the playpen of the damned. 124 00:06:31,458 --> 00:06:34,625 To me, every person in this business stopped growing 125 00:06:34,709 --> 00:06:36,291 at 12 years old. 126 00:06:36,375 --> 00:06:38,625 Come on, Gary, we started. 127 00:06:38,709 --> 00:06:41,750 I just love these long, hard round things. 128 00:06:41,834 --> 00:06:44,917 The family of X is really a dysfunctional family. 129 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,792 We have the bond of knowing that we were the rebels, 130 00:06:47,875 --> 00:06:49,000 and we did this thing. 131 00:06:49,083 --> 00:06:50,542 I'm not a boy scout. 132 00:06:50,625 --> 00:06:52,166 -I'm a do-gooder. -Sixty-nine. 133 00:06:52,250 --> 00:06:55,583 You are a do-gooder. Could you do me good? 134 00:06:55,667 --> 00:06:59,041 To me, it's almost like being a member of "AA," 135 00:06:59,125 --> 00:07:00,792 but you never stop drinking. 136 00:07:00,875 --> 00:07:02,417 And the winner is... 137 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:03,917 Tom Byron! 138 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,125 [crowd cheering] 139 00:07:06,208 --> 00:07:08,250 I'd like to thank every beautiful woman 140 00:07:08,333 --> 00:07:11,583 I've ever put my cock inside. 141 00:07:11,667 --> 00:07:14,959 It's a business that allows you to remain a fuckin' child. 142 00:07:15,041 --> 00:07:16,375 [chuckles] I never met a girl 143 00:07:16,458 --> 00:07:18,500 who got to the point quite so fast. 144 00:07:18,583 --> 00:07:19,792 [Tom Byron] I used to want to get high 145 00:07:19,875 --> 00:07:22,250 and fuck girls, and do these cool little movies, 146 00:07:22,333 --> 00:07:25,458 and, you know, have this fucking easy, great life. 147 00:07:25,542 --> 00:07:29,291 [moaning] It's good. It's good. 148 00:07:29,375 --> 00:07:31,208 [Mark Cromer] There was almost a Peter Pan 149 00:07:31,291 --> 00:07:34,208 like quality to we're off in 150 00:07:34,291 --> 00:07:37,375 never-never land. 151 00:07:37,458 --> 00:07:39,583 [Bill Margold] They don't have any responsibility, 152 00:07:39,667 --> 00:07:40,709 that's part of the nature 153 00:07:40,792 --> 00:07:42,625 of a great adult performer. 154 00:07:42,709 --> 00:07:45,041 They can't spell the word "Tomorrow." 155 00:07:45,125 --> 00:07:46,959 They have no idea about the future. 156 00:07:47,041 --> 00:07:49,875 They live for the moment, and they live for the glory. 157 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:51,375 I have something to show you. 158 00:07:51,458 --> 00:07:52,917 July "GQ." 159 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,959 -Yeah. -There she is. 160 00:07:55,041 --> 00:07:57,917 Six hundred and twenty men in one day. 161 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,542 We knew what life was like for the rest of the world. 162 00:08:02,625 --> 00:08:05,709 [Jim South] They were making ten times, twenty times the money 163 00:08:05,792 --> 00:08:08,500 they would normally make for a regular job. 164 00:08:08,583 --> 00:08:11,250 So they partied more, they got more days off 165 00:08:11,333 --> 00:08:15,041 'cause they don't need to work seven days a week. 166 00:08:15,125 --> 00:08:16,417 [Mark Cromer] Work, I mean it was a bit 167 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:18,208 of a party, it was a bit of a bacchanal. 168 00:08:18,291 --> 00:08:19,375 It was a bit of a scene. 169 00:08:19,458 --> 00:08:22,417 [scatting] 170 00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:25,166 [vocalizing] 171 00:08:25,250 --> 00:08:27,375 ♪ No man's in the nighttime ♪ 172 00:08:27,458 --> 00:08:30,125 ♪ The logic of my town ♪ 173 00:08:30,208 --> 00:08:33,250 ♪ Yeah cruise like in the nighttime ♪ 174 00:08:33,333 --> 00:08:36,125 ♪ The logic of my town ♪ 175 00:08:36,208 --> 00:08:39,291 ♪ Yeah fools like in the nighttime ♪ 176 00:08:39,375 --> 00:08:43,709 ♪ The logic of my time fools like in the nighttime ♪ 177 00:08:43,792 --> 00:08:44,917 [woman] Kaitlyn Ashley. 178 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,250 [crowd cheering] 179 00:08:46,333 --> 00:08:48,417 The best day of my life. 180 00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:49,709 ♪ Let's go ♪♪ 181 00:08:52,375 --> 00:08:54,375 There was certainly 182 00:08:54,458 --> 00:08:57,375 a carefree atmosphere to it, 183 00:08:57,458 --> 00:09:01,375 and there didn't seem to be any sense of impending disaster. 184 00:09:01,458 --> 00:09:04,417 Nobody seemed to see that we weren't in a tunnel 185 00:09:04,500 --> 00:09:06,125 and whatever light we were lookin' at 186 00:09:06,208 --> 00:09:08,333 wasn't really a train barreling down 187 00:09:08,417 --> 00:09:09,834 the tracks at them. 188 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:16,500 I've done more mainstream films now than-than adult films. 189 00:09:16,583 --> 00:09:20,333 And I was cast in a series called "Wing Commander." 190 00:09:20,417 --> 00:09:23,333 Mark Hamill's the leading man in-in the series. 191 00:09:23,417 --> 00:09:24,917 So we're getting ready to do the scene 192 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,250 and the producer comes over and says, 193 00:09:27,333 --> 00:09:29,792 "Your agent's on the phone and we need to talk." 194 00:09:29,875 --> 00:09:31,834 You're teasing me. Stop it. 195 00:09:31,917 --> 00:09:34,333 [Ginger Lynn] Mark Hamill had refused 196 00:09:34,417 --> 00:09:37,750 to kiss me because he was afraid he was gonna get AIDS. 197 00:09:37,834 --> 00:09:39,542 Um, I'd like to thank all my fans out there. 198 00:09:39,625 --> 00:09:41,041 You guys are great... 199 00:09:41,125 --> 00:09:44,291 Everybody in that business at that time was whistling 200 00:09:44,375 --> 00:09:45,583 past the graveyard. 201 00:09:45,667 --> 00:09:48,041 You think it could never happen to you. 202 00:09:48,125 --> 00:09:51,000 We have a disease here. And we have no cure. 203 00:09:51,083 --> 00:09:52,375 [man on TV] Indeed for the foreseeable 204 00:09:52,458 --> 00:09:54,208 future throughout the world, 205 00:09:54,291 --> 00:09:56,291 the number of people dying from AIDS 206 00:09:56,375 --> 00:09:57,959 will continue to increase dramatically. 207 00:09:58,041 --> 00:10:00,667 An epidemic that is still raging out of control. 208 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,417 You are doing nothing! We need action! 209 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:08,333 It's time to put up or shut up, Bill! 210 00:10:08,417 --> 00:10:09,834 [woman] Sit down! 211 00:10:09,917 --> 00:10:11,750 A Manhattan project on AIDS! 212 00:10:11,834 --> 00:10:13,583 Research, we need it now! 213 00:10:13,667 --> 00:10:16,667 [people clamoring] 214 00:10:23,834 --> 00:10:25,709 The-the backbone of pornography 215 00:10:25,792 --> 00:10:28,000 was denial about HIV in the '90s. 216 00:10:28,083 --> 00:10:30,333 There's no fucking doubt about that. 217 00:10:30,417 --> 00:10:32,875 There's no doubt about it. 218 00:10:32,959 --> 00:10:34,166 [Bill Margold] HIV has never really 219 00:10:34,250 --> 00:10:35,667 frightened me because I believe 220 00:10:35,750 --> 00:10:37,583 it was a chemically-bred form of eugenics 221 00:10:37,667 --> 00:10:40,125 perpetrated on society by governments desirous 222 00:10:40,208 --> 00:10:42,375 of ridding the world of three factions 223 00:10:42,458 --> 00:10:44,000 that nobody would give a shit about. 224 00:10:44,083 --> 00:10:48,000 Homosexuals, intravenous drug users, and minorities. 225 00:10:48,083 --> 00:10:50,583 We were all very much in denial 226 00:10:50,667 --> 00:10:52,792 and fuckin' tortured by it. 227 00:10:52,875 --> 00:10:54,166 [Ginger Lynn] We never really worried 228 00:10:54,250 --> 00:10:55,250 about it in the industry, 229 00:10:55,333 --> 00:10:57,291 and I think the general consensus 230 00:10:57,375 --> 00:11:00,667 was that HIV was a gay disease. 231 00:11:00,750 --> 00:11:02,709 The gay people are giving their blood 232 00:11:02,792 --> 00:11:06,000 knowing that it is contaminating people... 233 00:11:06,083 --> 00:11:08,500 Nobody wanted to hear it, nobody wanted to talk about it. 234 00:11:08,583 --> 00:11:11,125 It was, like, "Let's just not, let's just ignore it." 235 00:11:11,208 --> 00:11:14,458 It didn't concern me so much where I didn't want to perform. 236 00:11:14,542 --> 00:11:16,208 I wanted to perform. 237 00:11:16,291 --> 00:11:19,000 [Ron Jeremy] I was scared of getting HIV. 238 00:11:19,083 --> 00:11:22,125 And then I realized, and-and I-I explained to girls I work with, 239 00:11:22,208 --> 00:11:24,291 if I haven't had a problem now, being probably 240 00:11:24,375 --> 00:11:25,792 the longest running guy in the business. 241 00:11:25,875 --> 00:11:27,417 I still do scenes even today. 242 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:28,792 I mean, obviously I have the lifestyle 243 00:11:28,875 --> 00:11:30,750 that doesn't lead to HIV, 244 00:11:30,834 --> 00:11:33,041 'cause I woulda had it by now. 245 00:11:33,125 --> 00:11:36,959 I was afraid of HIV the first time I ever heard of it. 246 00:11:37,041 --> 00:11:39,375 Federal health officials consider it an epidemic. 247 00:11:39,458 --> 00:11:42,250 Scientists say they are dealing with some new deadly 248 00:11:42,333 --> 00:11:43,875 sexually-transmitted disease. 249 00:11:43,959 --> 00:11:45,500 [Tom Byron] I thought that was God's 250 00:11:45,583 --> 00:11:48,959 or whoever's ultimate fuckin' joke that, 251 00:11:49,041 --> 00:11:52,208 "Here I am, fulfillin' my life's dream," 252 00:11:52,291 --> 00:11:56,208 and a fuckin' deadly disease drops out of the fuckin' blue 253 00:11:56,291 --> 00:11:58,625 that kills you in two weeks. 254 00:11:58,709 --> 00:12:02,083 It scared the fuckin' shit out of me. 255 00:12:02,166 --> 00:12:03,542 I kinda figured, "Oh, if you're getting tested 256 00:12:03,625 --> 00:12:06,291 for something and it turns out fine, then you're fine." 257 00:12:06,375 --> 00:12:07,917 -Huge dick. -Be very afraid. 258 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,375 [Tricia Devereaux] So, it completely 259 00:12:09,458 --> 00:12:12,208 minimalized my concerns. 260 00:12:12,291 --> 00:12:14,667 I'm ashamed to admit it, that's what I, that's what I thought 261 00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:17,041 "Eh, you're not gonna get it unless you're a junkie." 262 00:12:17,125 --> 00:12:19,291 And even if you're a junkie, if you're sharin' needles 263 00:12:19,375 --> 00:12:22,083 that's when you get it, or if you're doin' that gay stuff, 264 00:12:22,166 --> 00:12:24,834 you might get it too, but nobody's doin' that, 265 00:12:24,917 --> 00:12:26,917 so, yeah, everything's cool. 266 00:12:28,333 --> 00:12:29,667 How wrong we were. 267 00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:32,792 [instrumental music] 268 00:12:36,917 --> 00:12:38,375 [Mark Kernes] There were a couple of cases 269 00:12:38,458 --> 00:12:41,333 of people I know who died of HIV. 270 00:12:41,417 --> 00:12:44,750 We're not sure where those people contracted their HIV, 271 00:12:44,834 --> 00:12:46,667 but it generally was not on the set. 272 00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:48,458 I don't tell him how to edit. 273 00:12:48,542 --> 00:12:49,834 [Mark Cromer] It-it was John Holmes. 274 00:12:49,917 --> 00:12:51,041 And he doesn't tell me how to fuck. 275 00:12:51,125 --> 00:12:53,542 [Mark Cromer] And his contracting HIV 276 00:12:53,625 --> 00:12:54,709 and developing AIDS... 277 00:12:54,792 --> 00:12:56,709 -You do have it? -I've got it. 278 00:12:56,792 --> 00:12:59,583 That brought it, however briefly, 279 00:12:59,667 --> 00:13:02,709 into maybe the national consciousness, 280 00:13:02,792 --> 00:13:04,417 and then it went away. 281 00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:06,166 [Michael] He was doin' gay movies 282 00:13:06,250 --> 00:13:10,041 or doin' gay stuff off-screen, and he was a junkie. 283 00:13:10,125 --> 00:13:12,375 -Do you take drugs? -No, I don't take drugs. 284 00:13:12,458 --> 00:13:14,125 I don't even like aspirin. 285 00:13:14,208 --> 00:13:15,291 [Mark Cromer] I think the industry looked 286 00:13:15,375 --> 00:13:17,583 at it as kind of an outlier, a one-off. 287 00:13:17,667 --> 00:13:19,375 Or we dodged a bullet. 288 00:13:19,458 --> 00:13:22,750 No one really was looking at, "Okay, John Holmes, 289 00:13:22,834 --> 00:13:25,542 the poster boy for commercial pornography 290 00:13:25,625 --> 00:13:27,417 in the United States is dead 291 00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:29,959 and he's dead because of AIDS." 292 00:13:30,041 --> 00:13:31,792 Um, what does this mean? 293 00:13:31,875 --> 00:13:34,041 It's like there's a giant hourglass somewhere 294 00:13:34,125 --> 00:13:35,792 rapidly pouring out the sands. 295 00:13:35,875 --> 00:13:37,208 [instrumental music] 296 00:13:39,291 --> 00:13:40,834 [Bill Margold] Holmes dies and the industry 297 00:13:40,917 --> 00:13:42,875 breathes a sigh of relief. 298 00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:45,125 We then sort of forget about HIV. 299 00:13:45,208 --> 00:13:46,750 [instrumental music] 300 00:13:46,834 --> 00:13:48,875 Hi. 301 00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:50,166 [Sharon Mitchell] People wanna turn 302 00:13:50,250 --> 00:13:51,542 a blind eye 'cause there's money to be made. 303 00:13:51,625 --> 00:13:53,667 They all have to pay. 304 00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:57,542 So, who the fuck wants to talk about HIV? 305 00:13:57,625 --> 00:13:58,792 [Tom Byron] If you talk about it, 306 00:13:58,875 --> 00:14:00,458 you're not put on the fuckin' list. 307 00:14:00,542 --> 00:14:01,834 Troublemaker! You're a troublemaker. 308 00:14:01,917 --> 00:14:03,458 We don't talk about that. 309 00:14:03,542 --> 00:14:06,166 Fuckin' do that line and shut up. 310 00:14:06,250 --> 00:14:08,625 Just fuck, get it on camera... 311 00:14:08,709 --> 00:14:10,709 Get a little girl-girl, maybe a little blowjob with you. 312 00:14:10,792 --> 00:14:12,000 -I need to go and do my... -Okay. 313 00:14:12,083 --> 00:14:13,458 [Mark Cromer] There's a discardability 314 00:14:13,542 --> 00:14:15,291 of the performer base in the industry. 315 00:14:15,375 --> 00:14:16,750 [man] Were you a sick fuckin' animal 316 00:14:16,834 --> 00:14:18,166 before you got in this business? 317 00:14:18,250 --> 00:14:20,250 [Mark Cromer] Having said that, I'm ambivalent 318 00:14:20,333 --> 00:14:23,458 at best about whether or not condoms can and should be 319 00:14:23,542 --> 00:14:24,959 mandatory in porn. 320 00:14:25,041 --> 00:14:27,500 Condoms, man! It's repression, man! 321 00:14:27,583 --> 00:14:29,583 Just another tool of the establishment 322 00:14:29,667 --> 00:14:31,875 just to bring us down! 323 00:14:31,959 --> 00:14:35,792 Condoms are a violation of the vicarious thrill 324 00:14:35,875 --> 00:14:37,500 that we provide the audience. 325 00:14:37,583 --> 00:14:38,750 Use one or get none. 326 00:14:38,834 --> 00:14:40,500 [narrator] "Sheik. Get some." 327 00:14:40,583 --> 00:14:44,083 It's like getting some oration about morality 328 00:14:44,166 --> 00:14:46,625 in-in a porn scene, it's a total downer. 329 00:14:46,709 --> 00:14:48,417 Condoms destroy porn. 330 00:14:52,166 --> 00:14:53,375 [Bill Margold] The orgasm, the money shot 331 00:14:53,458 --> 00:14:55,375 into the face of society 332 00:14:55,458 --> 00:14:58,083 is exactly what this business is all about. 333 00:14:58,166 --> 00:15:00,542 No one wants to see a condom 334 00:15:00,625 --> 00:15:03,834 because a condom connotes reality. 335 00:15:03,917 --> 00:15:06,750 And we're not reality. We are a fantasy. 336 00:15:06,834 --> 00:15:11,375 This industry is a carnal version of Disneyland. 337 00:15:11,458 --> 00:15:12,667 [imitating seals barking] 338 00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:14,709 [Sharon Mitchell] The sex was selling 339 00:15:14,792 --> 00:15:16,625 because there were no condoms. 340 00:15:16,709 --> 00:15:18,792 And it was a tremendous amount of money 341 00:15:18,875 --> 00:15:21,875 because it was the precipice of the internet. 342 00:15:21,959 --> 00:15:24,667 People just knew, it was a whole new era. 343 00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:27,667 New technology permits us to do very exciting things 344 00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:29,917 in interactive, erotic software. 345 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,583 I still jerk off manually. 346 00:15:31,667 --> 00:15:34,000 Wave of the future, dude, wave of the future... 347 00:15:34,083 --> 00:15:38,166 Technology drove us into the '90s...with computer sex. 348 00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:40,208 [Mark Kernes] The internet was really just 349 00:15:40,291 --> 00:15:43,542 beginning to get its sexual chops on. 350 00:15:43,625 --> 00:15:47,166 The internet, digital video disks, and who knows what... 351 00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:50,291 And remember who is on the backs of all technology? 352 00:15:50,375 --> 00:15:51,583 The pornographers! 353 00:15:51,667 --> 00:15:53,959 ♪ The internet is for porn ♪ 354 00:15:54,041 --> 00:15:55,875 ♪ The internet is for porn ♪ 355 00:15:55,959 --> 00:15:57,375 [woman] What are you doing? 356 00:15:57,458 --> 00:15:59,750 ♪ Why do you think the net was born? ♪ 357 00:15:59,834 --> 00:16:02,125 ♪ Porn porn porn ♪♪ 358 00:16:02,208 --> 00:16:03,709 You have to remember, the internet is not 359 00:16:03,792 --> 00:16:05,125 a regulated environment. 360 00:16:05,208 --> 00:16:07,834 [upbeat music] 361 00:16:07,917 --> 00:16:08,750 [Mark Cromer] It's like a flywheel, 362 00:16:08,834 --> 00:16:10,792 it creates its own momentum. 363 00:16:10,875 --> 00:16:13,375 Now we want more. We want whatever fetish. 364 00:16:13,458 --> 00:16:15,542 We want whatever desire catered to. 365 00:16:15,625 --> 00:16:18,250 [man on TV] Wow. They're, like, really soft. 366 00:16:18,333 --> 00:16:19,709 [Ron Jeremy] More and more public revealing. 367 00:16:19,792 --> 00:16:21,917 More and more porn films. They wanted to see more kink. 368 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,291 It's 24 hours live hardcore. 369 00:16:24,375 --> 00:16:25,959 -Live? On the internet? -Yes. Yes. 370 00:16:26,041 --> 00:16:30,250 The ensuing glut of commercially made and sold pornography 371 00:16:30,333 --> 00:16:34,542 gave way to a tsunami of cheap shot-on video, 372 00:16:34,625 --> 00:16:36,583 sold on video productions. 373 00:16:36,667 --> 00:16:39,458 For event-styled shows like this, if you're high-end film... 374 00:16:39,542 --> 00:16:42,417 About three of those a month... About four of those a month... 375 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,208 [Mark Cromer] The excitement of pretty girls 376 00:16:45,291 --> 00:16:49,792 getting screwed by handsome guys wore off. 377 00:16:49,875 --> 00:16:53,625 In the popular culture, there was this trend... 378 00:16:53,709 --> 00:16:55,458 ♪ Do the extreme! ♪ 379 00:16:55,542 --> 00:16:57,417 [Michael] For, like, extremes. 380 00:16:57,500 --> 00:17:00,041 I can do this. 381 00:17:00,125 --> 00:17:01,583 [Michael] All of a sudden, it's not 382 00:17:01,667 --> 00:17:03,583 a regular soft drink, it's an extreme soft drink! 383 00:17:03,667 --> 00:17:04,625 [man] If you're gonna do it, 384 00:17:04,709 --> 00:17:06,208 dew it extreme! 385 00:17:06,291 --> 00:17:07,959 [Michael] The X-games, professional 386 00:17:08,041 --> 00:17:10,875 wrestling is getting more extreme. 387 00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:14,500 All this kinda, like, swap-meet level entertainment. 388 00:17:14,583 --> 00:17:17,417 You know, porn, like anything else, picks up on this. 389 00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:19,625 [instrumental music] 390 00:17:19,709 --> 00:17:21,250 [David Foster] The truth is that in your face 391 00:17:21,333 --> 00:17:23,709 vileness is part of the schizoid direction 392 00:17:23,792 --> 00:17:26,834 porn's been moving in all decade. 393 00:17:26,917 --> 00:17:30,375 For just as adult entertainment has become more mainstream, 394 00:17:30,458 --> 00:17:33,000 it has become also more extreme. 395 00:17:36,250 --> 00:17:37,583 [woman laughing] 396 00:17:40,166 --> 00:17:42,875 [indistinct chatter] 397 00:17:42,959 --> 00:17:45,959 We're gonna have a little gang-bang goin' on. 398 00:17:46,041 --> 00:17:49,417 In the mid '90s, in the late '90s, it was changing. 399 00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:52,667 It was getting riskier, and so many more people 400 00:17:52,750 --> 00:17:55,291 because of the video boom and the internet now, 401 00:17:55,375 --> 00:17:57,750 it was just getting riskier and riskier. 402 00:17:57,834 --> 00:17:58,834 [Mark Cromer] The glut of it 403 00:17:58,917 --> 00:18:00,166 led the industry... 404 00:18:00,250 --> 00:18:01,417 [man] Can somebody get a dick? 405 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:02,834 To decide we have to start 406 00:18:02,917 --> 00:18:05,500 showing our consuming public 407 00:18:05,583 --> 00:18:09,083 in the United States things they haven't seen before. 408 00:18:09,166 --> 00:18:11,250 I'd like you people to be original and different. 409 00:18:11,333 --> 00:18:14,875 We have to show them new and exciting 410 00:18:14,959 --> 00:18:18,291 and, quite frankly, evermore debauched scenarios. 411 00:18:18,375 --> 00:18:20,375 [upbeat music] 412 00:18:21,834 --> 00:18:24,041 [man] We're doing a good thing, 413 00:18:24,125 --> 00:18:27,083 and we are gonna take it to more limits. 414 00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:28,333 I can't believe we get paid for this. 415 00:18:28,417 --> 00:18:30,583 [crowd cheering] 416 00:18:30,667 --> 00:18:33,959 Directors had to keep pushing the envelope. 417 00:18:34,041 --> 00:18:38,917 Anal became a phenomenon at that period of time in the '90s. 418 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,083 Best anal theme feature, best anal sex scene in a video. 419 00:18:42,166 --> 00:18:44,083 Best anal sex scene in a film. 420 00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:45,291 "Butt-Slammers." 421 00:18:45,375 --> 00:18:47,083 "Gluteus To The Maximus." 422 00:18:47,166 --> 00:18:49,500 -"Sodomania 21." -"Sodomania 22." 423 00:18:49,583 --> 00:18:51,458 "The Anal Diary Of Misty Rain." 424 00:18:51,542 --> 00:18:53,375 -"Butt Row, Unplugged." -"The Anal Food Express." 425 00:18:53,458 --> 00:18:54,375 "Butt-Man." 426 00:18:54,458 --> 00:18:56,250 "Ben Dover's Little Smartasses." 427 00:18:56,333 --> 00:18:57,834 -"Bottom Dweller Five." -"Corporate Assets." 428 00:18:57,917 --> 00:18:58,917 "Ben Dover Babes." 429 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,709 I'm here for "Anal Graveyard." 430 00:19:00,792 --> 00:19:03,000 Anal's the hot thing, everyone's talking anal tonight. 431 00:19:03,083 --> 00:19:05,417 Movie doesn't have anal sex? 432 00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:07,834 It's not... You can't even call it porn. 433 00:19:07,917 --> 00:19:09,291 They were so fascinated with 434 00:19:09,375 --> 00:19:11,375 a-all this unprotected anal stuff, 435 00:19:11,458 --> 00:19:15,709 and ejaculations in the eye, and this and that, and bukkakes... 436 00:19:15,792 --> 00:19:18,250 cum, cum, cum, cum, cum. 437 00:19:18,333 --> 00:19:20,750 [man] It was absolutely the industry 438 00:19:20,834 --> 00:19:24,000 saying, "It's no longer enough to make 'Debbie Does Dallas.'" 439 00:19:24,083 --> 00:19:26,959 "It's no longer enough to make 'Wanda Whips Wall Street.'" 440 00:19:27,041 --> 00:19:29,834 "It's no longer enough to make 'The Devil In Miss Jones.'" 441 00:19:29,917 --> 00:19:32,125 We need to show them something 442 00:19:32,208 --> 00:19:34,959 that is absolutely Roman. 443 00:19:35,041 --> 00:19:37,583 In its size, in its scale, in its scope, 444 00:19:37,667 --> 00:19:41,333 in just the outrageous, outlandish nature of it." 445 00:19:41,417 --> 00:19:44,417 It's about, "We are in the Colosseum, 446 00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:46,583 and the gladiators are down below." 447 00:19:46,667 --> 00:19:49,166 Most guys I ever did was 466. 448 00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:50,625 [man] Wow. 449 00:19:50,709 --> 00:19:53,291 This is my chance to be at the top of my profession. 450 00:19:53,375 --> 00:19:55,750 Call me crazy, but 2000 guys, you're not gonna be on top. 451 00:19:55,834 --> 00:19:58,500 [all cheering] 452 00:19:58,583 --> 00:19:59,959 This is about spectacle. 453 00:20:00,041 --> 00:20:01,417 This is spectacle porn. 454 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:03,750 We're having the world's biggest gang-bang. 455 00:20:03,834 --> 00:20:06,542 Will history be made, or will the men go limp under pressure? 456 00:20:06,625 --> 00:20:09,083 ♪ I never have a chance to shake ♪ 457 00:20:09,166 --> 00:20:11,542 ♪ A money-maker ♪ 458 00:20:11,625 --> 00:20:13,709 ♪ It's all go meek to me ♪♪ 459 00:20:13,792 --> 00:20:15,458 [Mark Cromer] This led to the rise 460 00:20:15,542 --> 00:20:19,959 of such surreal events as "Gang-Bangs." 461 00:20:20,041 --> 00:20:23,083 Uh, 100, 200, 300... 462 00:20:23,166 --> 00:20:24,542 [man] The last gangbang was cut 463 00:20:24,625 --> 00:20:26,417 a little bit short because Annabel Chong said 464 00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:28,041 that the guy's fingernails were bothering her. 465 00:20:28,125 --> 00:20:29,375 The point here is to break the record. 466 00:20:29,458 --> 00:20:30,959 We're gonna assassinate the record. 467 00:20:31,041 --> 00:20:33,458 Yessiree, we're gonna beat the gang-bang records. 468 00:20:33,542 --> 00:20:36,250 What we're going to achieve today is 300 men... 469 00:20:37,583 --> 00:20:39,125 [crowd cheering] 470 00:20:39,208 --> 00:20:43,208 ♪ I got a pleasure appointment ♪ 471 00:20:43,291 --> 00:20:44,667 ♪ I'm cashin' in the chips ♪ 472 00:20:44,750 --> 00:20:46,625 ♪ And I'm goin' to ♪ 473 00:20:46,709 --> 00:20:51,041 ♪ A pleasure appointment with you ♪♪ 474 00:20:51,125 --> 00:20:53,875 [instrumental music] 475 00:20:53,959 --> 00:20:55,208 [crowd cheering] 476 00:20:57,083 --> 00:21:00,583 Oh, my... The-the type of behavior that was going on 477 00:21:00,667 --> 00:21:03,917 in the late '90s was a recipe 478 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,125 for HIV transmission... 479 00:21:07,583 --> 00:21:10,291 And that's the truth. 480 00:21:10,375 --> 00:21:11,917 [Ron Jeremy] It was actually the late 481 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,458 great Bobby Astyr, who was a porn star and a comic one, 482 00:21:14,542 --> 00:21:16,333 and he said that, "Why is this business 483 00:21:16,417 --> 00:21:19,291 getting more into anal sex, when, at the same time 484 00:21:19,375 --> 00:21:21,041 HIV outbreak is all over the world." 485 00:21:21,125 --> 00:21:22,375 [man] They have had no luck. 486 00:21:22,458 --> 00:21:24,083 Short of driving a train up someone's ass. 487 00:21:24,166 --> 00:21:27,458 It was very, you know, it was-it was very frightening. 488 00:21:42,458 --> 00:21:44,250 [Mark Kernes] Part of the problem in those 489 00:21:44,333 --> 00:21:46,917 early days is that producers 490 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,291 generally did not look at performers' HIV tests. 491 00:21:51,375 --> 00:21:54,000 Some of them did, but very few of them. 492 00:21:54,083 --> 00:21:55,166 [Sharon Mitchell] The testing protocols 493 00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:56,709 of that time were people going 494 00:21:56,792 --> 00:21:58,667 to the county health clinics 495 00:21:58,750 --> 00:22:01,250 or the methadone clinics, or getting tested for free 496 00:22:01,333 --> 00:22:02,917 and exchanging tests. 497 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,583 I'm working with John West today, 498 00:22:04,667 --> 00:22:06,959 so I'm going to show him my test results. 499 00:22:07,041 --> 00:22:09,375 So, it was on an individual level, 500 00:22:09,458 --> 00:22:12,333 people that presented their test and expected from other people. 501 00:22:12,417 --> 00:22:16,333 John will now show me his test dated August 4th, and I... 502 00:22:16,417 --> 00:22:17,625 [Sharon Mitchell] But the tests were from 503 00:22:17,709 --> 00:22:20,166 different clinics, they weren't under the same roof. 504 00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:22,333 It was catch-as-catch-can. 505 00:22:22,417 --> 00:22:24,875 [Michael] When I'd go onto sets, 506 00:22:24,959 --> 00:22:29,291 most of the time, nobody was showing any kind of paperwork, 507 00:22:29,375 --> 00:22:31,750 it was just, "I'm here, let's get it on." 508 00:22:31,834 --> 00:22:33,166 [Mr. Marcus] We'd all show up all with a test 509 00:22:33,250 --> 00:22:34,917 and there'd be a stack of piece of papers, 510 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,917 and then there-there'd be a production manager 511 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,458 who would, you know, "If anybody wants 512 00:22:38,542 --> 00:22:40,208 to see the test, they're over here." 513 00:22:40,291 --> 00:22:42,291 Most of the guys would go focus on the girl. 514 00:22:42,375 --> 00:22:44,792 That is not a system. 515 00:22:44,875 --> 00:22:46,041 That is not a protocol. 516 00:22:46,125 --> 00:22:48,750 So a system had to be put in place. 517 00:22:48,834 --> 00:22:50,250 And we're here at AIM Healthcare. 518 00:22:50,333 --> 00:22:51,625 [Bill Margold] We then create "AIM." 519 00:22:51,709 --> 00:22:55,125 The Adult Industry Medical Healthcare foundation 520 00:22:55,208 --> 00:22:58,291 to make sure there'd be more coordinated testing. 521 00:22:58,375 --> 00:23:00,375 Get early-detection HIV tests. 522 00:23:00,458 --> 00:23:02,083 [Mark Kernes] Sharon Mitchell, who at that 523 00:23:02,166 --> 00:23:04,000 point was still an actress 524 00:23:04,083 --> 00:23:07,083 and eventually went on to get a doctorate in Public Health, 525 00:23:07,166 --> 00:23:09,000 was hired by Bill Margold 526 00:23:09,083 --> 00:23:11,375 who ran Protecting Adult Welfare. 527 00:23:11,458 --> 00:23:14,667 I had went back to school, for a while, 528 00:23:14,750 --> 00:23:17,750 and I gravitated toward HIV research, 529 00:23:17,834 --> 00:23:20,417 and I'm asked to start a clinic. 530 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:22,583 [Mark Kernes] And so AIM was formed, 531 00:23:22,667 --> 00:23:25,375 and became the testing facility for the industry, 532 00:23:25,458 --> 00:23:27,083 and just everybody went there. 533 00:23:27,166 --> 00:23:28,542 We tested all the guys. 534 00:23:28,625 --> 00:23:30,166 [Dr. Tom Horowitz] She became our go-to person. 535 00:23:30,250 --> 00:23:31,792 We're here to make sure that your tests are current, 536 00:23:31,875 --> 00:23:33,333 and everybody has a safe, great time. 537 00:23:33,417 --> 00:23:35,000 She had credibility in the industry. 538 00:23:35,083 --> 00:23:39,166 She could to the actors and look eye-to-eye 539 00:23:39,250 --> 00:23:41,250 and say, "I've been there." 540 00:23:41,333 --> 00:23:44,792 I know just how dirty people can get. 541 00:23:44,875 --> 00:23:45,625 [Bill Margold] We'd been taking something 542 00:23:45,709 --> 00:23:47,291 called the "ELISA Test." 543 00:23:47,375 --> 00:23:48,875 It might have been every six months 544 00:23:48,959 --> 00:23:50,000 to every three months. 545 00:23:50,083 --> 00:23:51,542 This would tell us we were okay, 546 00:23:51,625 --> 00:23:53,166 and we could go bang our brains out. 547 00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:55,583 [Sharon Mitchell] The ELISA HIV test isn't really 548 00:23:55,667 --> 00:23:58,208 the most suitable for the adult entertainment industry 549 00:23:58,291 --> 00:24:01,458 simply because it could take up to six to nine months 550 00:24:01,542 --> 00:24:03,417 in some people to show up. 551 00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:05,458 They were really basically useless, 552 00:24:05,542 --> 00:24:08,125 and something was about to happen. 553 00:24:08,208 --> 00:24:11,834 When you have an exponentially large group of folks 554 00:24:11,917 --> 00:24:13,667 fucking for a living without condoms, 555 00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:16,000 something is about to happen. 556 00:24:16,083 --> 00:24:20,375 It is precisely at that moment that that outbreak occurred. 557 00:24:20,458 --> 00:24:22,250 [rock music] 558 00:24:32,542 --> 00:24:34,166 [Luke Ford] It was thought inevitable 559 00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:36,083 that the industry would get infected with AIDS. 560 00:24:36,166 --> 00:24:38,250 It was just kinda taken for granted. 561 00:24:38,333 --> 00:24:40,250 Society's always been ready 562 00:24:40,333 --> 00:24:43,625 to put us under a tombstone of HIV. 563 00:24:43,709 --> 00:24:45,917 [Luke Ford] In 1995, Barbara Doll, 564 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,500 a beautiful blond French porn star tested HIV positive. 565 00:24:49,583 --> 00:24:52,458 Then, in February of 1997, 566 00:24:52,542 --> 00:24:54,667 Nena Cherry tested HIV positive. 567 00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:58,333 And then you had Jordan McKnight in, uh, summer of 1997. 568 00:24:58,417 --> 00:25:01,625 And there was a lot of uproar and concern. 569 00:25:01,709 --> 00:25:04,375 And then everything was quiet for another six months. 570 00:25:04,458 --> 00:25:06,291 Then, uh, came the big one. 571 00:25:06,375 --> 00:25:10,000 So, '98 comes along, and I'm getting, 572 00:25:10,083 --> 00:25:13,709 I'm getting sort of these strange rumblings about HIV. 573 00:25:13,792 --> 00:25:16,125 -Tell me your name? -Hi, I'm Tricia Devereaux. 574 00:25:16,208 --> 00:25:18,875 -And where are you from? -I'm from Ohio. 575 00:25:18,959 --> 00:25:20,542 And I moved over out here a couple years ago 576 00:25:20,625 --> 00:25:22,500 and now I live here in Los Angeles. 577 00:25:22,583 --> 00:25:25,959 [Tricia Devereaux] In 1997, I had actually left 578 00:25:26,041 --> 00:25:27,583 the business for a couple of months 579 00:25:27,667 --> 00:25:30,417 and I had a very normal job, 580 00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:32,834 and then they found out that I had done porn, 581 00:25:32,917 --> 00:25:34,875 and, um, asked me to leave. 582 00:25:34,959 --> 00:25:36,709 And I was, like, "Okay, I'll, 583 00:25:36,792 --> 00:25:38,500 you know, get, go get another job, 584 00:25:38,583 --> 00:25:40,291 and, you know, maybe I, maybe I'll do a few scenes, you know, 585 00:25:40,375 --> 00:25:42,458 this or that," just get, you know, 586 00:25:42,542 --> 00:25:44,041 kind of a head start back in life. 587 00:25:44,125 --> 00:25:46,333 So, an editor for a magazine 588 00:25:46,417 --> 00:25:48,250 asked me to consider working 589 00:25:48,333 --> 00:25:50,333 for a director that I hadn't worked for before, 590 00:25:50,417 --> 00:25:52,959 and I ended up saying, "Sure." 591 00:25:53,041 --> 00:25:54,083 Um, it was actually the director that did 592 00:25:54,166 --> 00:25:57,083 the "100 Men Gangbang" movies. 593 00:25:57,166 --> 00:26:00,250 So, I went to site, it was, like, October, 594 00:26:00,333 --> 00:26:02,041 maybe November of 1997. 595 00:26:02,125 --> 00:26:05,458 The guy that I was supposed to work with, um, got sick 596 00:26:05,542 --> 00:26:07,542 or didn't have a clear test or something. 597 00:26:07,625 --> 00:26:10,375 And so they said, "Oh, well, your-your agent 598 00:26:10,458 --> 00:26:12,583 has this other guy available." 599 00:26:12,667 --> 00:26:14,333 Partway through the scene, they asked if it would, could be 600 00:26:14,417 --> 00:26:17,041 an internal cum shot. 601 00:26:17,125 --> 00:26:20,083 I had looked at his test, I saw the word "Undetectable" 602 00:26:20,166 --> 00:26:22,667 and I was like, "Cool." 603 00:26:24,458 --> 00:26:25,792 [man] Do you like an audience? 604 00:26:25,875 --> 00:26:28,375 [Tricia Devereaux] I don't like when I'm by myself. 605 00:26:28,458 --> 00:26:30,208 I don't like being alone. 606 00:26:30,291 --> 00:26:32,291 [mellow music] 607 00:26:36,667 --> 00:26:38,875 When I found out that I had HIV, 608 00:26:38,959 --> 00:26:43,208 I thought, "What, like... 609 00:26:43,291 --> 00:26:45,792 Whe... What did I do wrong?" 610 00:26:47,709 --> 00:26:51,875 I mean, my first reactions were 611 00:26:51,959 --> 00:26:54,709 obviously shock, um... 612 00:26:54,792 --> 00:26:57,875 And I knew that my life was never gonna be the same. 613 00:26:57,959 --> 00:27:00,709 [moaning] 614 00:27:08,375 --> 00:27:09,667 [man] It is not hard to see where 615 00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:11,208 porn is eventually going to have to go 616 00:27:11,291 --> 00:27:15,000 in order to retain its edge of disrepute. 617 00:27:15,083 --> 00:27:17,375 It's clear that the real horizon, late '90s porn, 618 00:27:17,458 --> 00:27:20,166 is heading toward, is the snuff film. 619 00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:30,875 This created shockwaves throughout the industry 620 00:27:30,959 --> 00:27:33,917 because we-we hadn't had a working actress 621 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,875 who was suffering from an infection, really ever. 622 00:27:36,959 --> 00:27:39,166 This one appeared to be on the set. 623 00:27:41,291 --> 00:27:45,208 She got back in the business, she had HIV. 624 00:27:45,291 --> 00:27:47,041 People really freaked over Tricia 625 00:27:47,125 --> 00:27:48,417 'cause they really liked Tricia. 626 00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:49,667 The winner is... 627 00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:52,417 Jeanna Fine and Tricia Devereaux! 628 00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:54,875 [crowd cheering] 629 00:27:54,959 --> 00:27:56,166 Nice girl. 630 00:27:56,250 --> 00:27:58,250 I really wanna thank, um, Elegant Angel 631 00:27:58,333 --> 00:27:59,917 for hiring Jeanna to work with me. 632 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,125 It was incredible. I just... 633 00:28:01,208 --> 00:28:03,875 She worked a lot, performed in, 634 00:28:03,959 --> 00:28:05,917 you know, some of the harder scenes. 635 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,250 She was on that cusp of being extreme. 636 00:28:09,333 --> 00:28:10,417 I'm gonna play teacher today. 637 00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:12,250 We kind of very quickly went 638 00:28:12,333 --> 00:28:15,917 into panic slash control mode. 639 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,959 You know, this is not gonna happen again! 640 00:28:18,041 --> 00:28:20,417 But if it does, we're going to find out the very next day. 641 00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:22,208 [Mark Kernes] So, it was announced that there 642 00:28:22,291 --> 00:28:24,458 was going to be an industry-wide meeting 643 00:28:24,542 --> 00:28:26,041 because they couldn't figure out 644 00:28:26,125 --> 00:28:27,625 where Tricia'd gotten it from. 645 00:28:27,709 --> 00:28:30,834 We went to VCA who had the largest warehouse 646 00:28:30,917 --> 00:28:33,709 and 300 people came. 647 00:28:33,792 --> 00:28:37,625 Place was packed, it was full of industry people. 648 00:28:37,709 --> 00:28:40,375 There was, like, the, it was really hot, people screamin'. 649 00:28:40,458 --> 00:28:41,959 [Michael Louis Alba] It scared 'em. 650 00:28:42,041 --> 00:28:45,041 There was definitely a sense of fear in that room. 651 00:28:45,125 --> 00:28:48,375 There was a certain amount of panic. 652 00:28:48,458 --> 00:28:50,333 They were comin' out with new drugs, but it was still 653 00:28:50,417 --> 00:28:51,542 kind of a death sentence. 654 00:28:51,625 --> 00:28:53,500 [upbeat music] 655 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,917 There were a lot of rumors about how you could get HIV. 656 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,667 But one thing the performers knew was 657 00:29:04,750 --> 00:29:06,458 it was a deadly disease, 658 00:29:06,542 --> 00:29:07,542 and the other thing they knew was 659 00:29:07,625 --> 00:29:08,667 they didn't want to have it. 660 00:29:08,750 --> 00:29:09,959 I was told to bring these 661 00:29:10,041 --> 00:29:12,417 life-saving drugs to Dr. Whoppers. 662 00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:13,291 I'm Dr. Whoppers. 663 00:29:13,375 --> 00:29:14,875 [comical music] 664 00:29:16,792 --> 00:29:20,083 Recess is over in the playpen of the damned. 665 00:29:20,166 --> 00:29:24,834 We now had to realize that maybe we could get sick. 666 00:29:24,917 --> 00:29:26,000 [Mark Kernes] At that point, everyone 667 00:29:26,083 --> 00:29:27,291 had to come in for testing. 668 00:29:27,375 --> 00:29:30,625 In particular, a-a kind of a new form of HIV test 669 00:29:30,709 --> 00:29:33,000 called the PCR DNA. 670 00:29:33,083 --> 00:29:36,291 The ELISA test just looks for HIV antibodies, 671 00:29:36,375 --> 00:29:40,333 with the PCR DNA, it looks for the virus itself. 672 00:29:40,417 --> 00:29:44,000 And you'll find it, if it's there, within 14 days. 673 00:29:44,083 --> 00:29:47,291 We decided to implement this test on everyone. 674 00:29:47,375 --> 00:29:49,417 [Mark Kernes] At that point, Sharon Mitchell 675 00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:52,709 and Bill Margold begin creating what they call genealogies. 676 00:29:52,792 --> 00:29:55,125 That's basically a list of people Tricia had worked with 677 00:29:55,208 --> 00:29:57,792 and then once Sharon had those names, 678 00:29:57,875 --> 00:30:00,792 she did genealogies for those people. 679 00:30:00,875 --> 00:30:02,250 [Bill Margold] You start with the first person, 680 00:30:02,333 --> 00:30:04,291 you go to second generation, third generation, 681 00:30:04,375 --> 00:30:05,875 fourth generation and then it's over. 682 00:30:05,959 --> 00:30:08,000 A... It's sort of a tree diagram. 683 00:30:08,083 --> 00:30:10,000 You know, so and so work with so and so 684 00:30:10,083 --> 00:30:12,417 who work with so and so, and they all had to be tested. 685 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:13,875 [Sharon Mitchell] We had to go back six months 686 00:30:13,959 --> 00:30:15,875 with Trish, and thank God for Trish 687 00:30:15,959 --> 00:30:17,125 because she was very copious 688 00:30:17,208 --> 00:30:19,375 in her note-taking in her partners. 689 00:30:19,458 --> 00:30:21,709 So, I had her partner list to go on 690 00:30:21,792 --> 00:30:25,083 and I found another, a month later. 691 00:30:25,166 --> 00:30:26,500 Yes! 692 00:30:26,583 --> 00:30:29,041 [moaning] 693 00:30:30,166 --> 00:30:34,041 Oh, yes! Oh, yeah! Oh, oh, yeah! 694 00:30:34,125 --> 00:30:36,208 [instrumental music] 695 00:30:39,667 --> 00:30:42,291 [moaning] Ooh, yes. 696 00:30:42,375 --> 00:30:45,000 Yes! 697 00:30:45,083 --> 00:30:47,583 Pretty extreme. It's like there's regular sex 698 00:30:47,667 --> 00:30:49,834 and there's anal sex 699 00:30:49,917 --> 00:30:53,667 and she's doin' an anal gangbang. 700 00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:55,834 Now she shattered. 701 00:30:55,917 --> 00:30:59,417 In early 1998, the cases just started falling one a month. 702 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:00,792 [Sharon Mitchell] We had Trish and then we had 703 00:31:00,875 --> 00:31:02,417 Brooke Ashley a month later. 704 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:04,125 Caroline a month after that. 705 00:31:04,208 --> 00:31:07,125 Then Kimberly Jade after that. 706 00:31:07,208 --> 00:31:10,458 Pretty eyes, wild girl, wild girl. 707 00:31:10,542 --> 00:31:13,917 From Europe, wanted to work very hardcore, really loved sex. 708 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,792 A lot more open to tryin' new things, very aggressive. 709 00:31:17,875 --> 00:31:20,583 [instrumental music] 710 00:31:23,417 --> 00:31:24,834 -It was... -It was... 711 00:31:24,917 --> 00:31:26,583 -Crazy. -Crazy. 712 00:31:28,959 --> 00:31:31,000 Girls were coming up positive, right and left. 713 00:31:31,083 --> 00:31:33,291 And nobody could figure out what the fuck was going on. 714 00:31:33,375 --> 00:31:36,875 We all came up with these justifications, these denials 715 00:31:36,959 --> 00:31:38,917 like, the porno business does. 716 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,166 We said "Tricia Devereaux is..." 717 00:31:41,250 --> 00:31:43,041 "She got drunk and fucked a bunch of guys 718 00:31:43,125 --> 00:31:46,291 at a Matt Zane party and that's how she got it." 719 00:31:46,375 --> 00:31:49,291 And, uh, Brooke Ashley, she did drugs 720 00:31:49,375 --> 00:31:52,667 and she was a hooker and she musta got it that way. 721 00:31:52,750 --> 00:31:54,625 And Caroline, she was probably a hooker, everyone's a hooker 722 00:31:54,709 --> 00:31:56,250 and that's how they got it. 723 00:31:56,333 --> 00:31:59,709 You know, it wasn't in the business, you know... 724 00:31:59,792 --> 00:32:01,917 It's no longer a one case phenomenon. 725 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,333 Now there are whole bunch of cases... 726 00:32:03,417 --> 00:32:04,917 They were blindsided. 727 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,458 You know, nobody foresaw what was going to happen. 728 00:32:08,542 --> 00:32:10,083 [Bill Margold] Shit hit the fan because 729 00:32:10,166 --> 00:32:11,417 people were tryin' to remember who they had 730 00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:13,875 had sex with, and not everybody remembers 731 00:32:13,959 --> 00:32:15,792 everybody they've had sex with. 732 00:32:15,875 --> 00:32:19,125 If you're dealing with risky sex, anal shit, 733 00:32:19,208 --> 00:32:21,542 you know, you're dealin' it with an HIV positive person, 734 00:32:21,625 --> 00:32:22,750 you're fucked, man. 735 00:32:22,834 --> 00:32:24,709 Remember, this was back when a guy would be 736 00:32:24,792 --> 00:32:26,000 perfectly healthy one week... 737 00:32:26,083 --> 00:32:28,583 Doctor, do you think he'll make it? 738 00:32:28,667 --> 00:32:29,875 You see him two weeks later, he's knockin' on death's door. 739 00:32:29,959 --> 00:32:31,667 [man] He doesn't look too good. 740 00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:34,125 It was knockin' down motherfuckers left and right. 741 00:32:34,208 --> 00:32:35,959 You look like you're doing pretty good. 742 00:32:36,041 --> 00:32:39,875 It was just, like, "What the fuck, man?" 743 00:32:39,959 --> 00:32:41,750 I mean, one of those women literally tried 744 00:32:41,834 --> 00:32:44,208 to jump out the window when I gave her results. 745 00:32:44,291 --> 00:32:46,458 And the fuckin' press was disgusting. 746 00:32:46,542 --> 00:32:47,583 [male reporter] We're attempting to determine 747 00:32:47,667 --> 00:32:49,834 the extent of HIV infections... 748 00:32:49,917 --> 00:32:50,709 [male reporter] This week another adult 749 00:32:50,792 --> 00:32:52,417 performer tested positive 750 00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:53,583 for the AIDS virus. 751 00:32:53,667 --> 00:32:55,291 The industry must protect 752 00:32:55,375 --> 00:32:57,208 those that are employed in it. 753 00:32:57,291 --> 00:33:00,083 [stammers] Vans lined up, people outside, 754 00:33:00,166 --> 00:33:01,625 trying to film people and... 755 00:33:01,709 --> 00:33:02,667 I mean, I literally caught someone 756 00:33:02,750 --> 00:33:03,792 trying to shove a camera 757 00:33:03,875 --> 00:33:06,500 into the window of the bathroom 758 00:33:06,583 --> 00:33:07,917 where we were taking urine samples. 759 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,125 It was just horrible. 760 00:33:10,208 --> 00:33:12,208 Fear was running rampant. 761 00:33:13,792 --> 00:33:15,166 It was fucking mayhem. 762 00:33:15,250 --> 00:33:16,208 Panic in the street. 763 00:33:16,291 --> 00:33:19,709 People just forgot themselves. 764 00:33:19,792 --> 00:33:22,458 Every month there was another girl until there was five of us. 765 00:33:22,542 --> 00:33:25,125 It appeared that we had a full-scale outbreak developing. 766 00:33:26,834 --> 00:33:28,208 It was complete and utter panic. 767 00:33:28,291 --> 00:33:29,208 -Panic. -Panic. 768 00:33:29,291 --> 00:33:30,583 -Panic. -Panic. 769 00:33:30,667 --> 00:33:31,792 It was an onslaught. 770 00:33:31,875 --> 00:33:34,208 There were a lot of frightened children. 771 00:33:35,166 --> 00:33:38,333 [instrumental music] 772 00:33:38,417 --> 00:33:40,625 All of a sudden you realized, "Wow! This is real. 773 00:33:40,709 --> 00:33:43,208 This is real life." 774 00:33:43,291 --> 00:33:47,041 If ya think about it, one person working with one woman 775 00:33:47,125 --> 00:33:51,792 or two women who is popular, that can spread so quickly. 776 00:33:51,875 --> 00:33:53,291 [Mark Kernes] In 1998, 777 00:33:53,375 --> 00:33:56,834 within a five-mile radius of this building 778 00:33:56,917 --> 00:33:59,959 probably 75% of all the adult videos 779 00:34:00,041 --> 00:34:01,667 in the country were produced. 780 00:34:01,750 --> 00:34:04,375 I mean, we're talking exponential growth here. 781 00:34:04,458 --> 00:34:06,834 [Michael Louis Alba] There were several people 782 00:34:06,917 --> 00:34:08,834 that were testing positive. 783 00:34:08,917 --> 00:34:11,417 And it doesn't take a genius to figure out 784 00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:14,458 this could be a big problem. 785 00:34:14,542 --> 00:34:17,291 One needn't have the gift of a prophet 786 00:34:17,375 --> 00:34:21,333 to see the evermore outrageous numbers 787 00:34:21,417 --> 00:34:24,041 and the situations that were being depicted 788 00:34:24,125 --> 00:34:27,250 to assume that if somebody came 789 00:34:27,333 --> 00:34:29,500 into that very tightly 790 00:34:29,583 --> 00:34:31,667 controlled and cloistered group of performers, 791 00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:36,500 if you had a patient zero, the resulting explosion 792 00:34:36,583 --> 00:34:38,917 had the potential to be massive. 793 00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:44,417 [instrumental music] 794 00:34:52,709 --> 00:34:55,333 The free-wheeling days of the X-rated industry exploding 795 00:34:55,417 --> 00:34:57,375 into a billion dollar thing, 796 00:34:57,458 --> 00:34:59,834 something had to come crashing down, man. 797 00:34:59,917 --> 00:35:01,458 Everybody has to pay the fuckin' piper 798 00:35:01,542 --> 00:35:03,792 and-and-and AIDS and HIV was that. 799 00:35:10,375 --> 00:35:11,041 [Tom Byron] That was the first time 800 00:35:11,125 --> 00:35:13,583 that HIV had touched us. 801 00:35:13,667 --> 00:35:16,333 Remember that, I mean, that's the biggest fear 802 00:35:16,417 --> 00:35:18,667 of-of the business... 803 00:35:18,750 --> 00:35:21,417 was that disease, that fucking thing. 804 00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:25,500 It-it just spun people's minds, like, what, you know, 805 00:35:25,583 --> 00:35:28,000 "What the hell is going on here?" 806 00:35:28,083 --> 00:35:30,917 [Tom Byron] We created this illusion 807 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,500 that we all had sex with each other 808 00:35:34,583 --> 00:35:38,125 and nobody had sex with anyone outside the circle 809 00:35:38,208 --> 00:35:42,792 and therefore we were all safe. 810 00:35:42,875 --> 00:35:44,417 [Mark Kernes] At that point, we-we didn't 811 00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:46,834 know what the source of the HIV was, 812 00:35:46,917 --> 00:35:48,417 we didn't know how many people were infected, 813 00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:52,125 we didn't know how they were being infected even. 814 00:35:52,208 --> 00:35:55,083 Nobody could have seen this happening 815 00:35:55,166 --> 00:35:57,917 and not know where it came from. 816 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,000 I was racking my brain 817 00:36:00,083 --> 00:36:02,875 and tryin' to figure out when and where. 818 00:36:02,959 --> 00:36:04,000 [Bill Margold] We can't seem to put our 819 00:36:04,083 --> 00:36:04,750 finger on it that people 820 00:36:04,834 --> 00:36:06,875 are coming down with HIV 821 00:36:06,959 --> 00:36:09,083 one after another after another. 822 00:36:09,166 --> 00:36:09,959 [Ron Jeremy] We can't locate 823 00:36:10,041 --> 00:36:12,125 who is giving out HIV 824 00:36:12,208 --> 00:36:14,750 like a-a raffle ticket. 825 00:36:14,834 --> 00:36:17,166 The very incestuous, tightly-knit 826 00:36:17,250 --> 00:36:19,417 nature of the industry posed 827 00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:21,583 I think a-a different set of challenges 828 00:36:21,667 --> 00:36:25,500 for dealing with this outbreak of HIV. 829 00:36:25,583 --> 00:36:26,583 [Sharon Mitchell] I was piecing together 830 00:36:26,667 --> 00:36:28,250 a very giant puzzle. 831 00:36:28,333 --> 00:36:29,750 There were a lotta common partners. 832 00:36:29,834 --> 00:36:31,000 I had to go back six months. 833 00:36:31,083 --> 00:36:33,834 I had to go back to 425 people 834 00:36:33,917 --> 00:36:36,709 and test them and multiply that by six different types 835 00:36:36,792 --> 00:36:38,417 of testing and efficacies. 836 00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:39,625 [Michael Louis Alba] The one person that hasn't 837 00:36:39,709 --> 00:36:41,417 been tested is Mitchell's 838 00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:44,667 ex-heroin shooting buddy, Marc Wallice. 839 00:36:44,750 --> 00:36:46,125 [Mark Kernes] The one person who showed up 840 00:36:46,208 --> 00:36:47,875 on all of those lists 841 00:36:47,959 --> 00:36:51,542 and he was the only one, was Marc Wallice, who at that point 842 00:36:51,625 --> 00:36:55,834 had not come in for an HIV test with PCR DNA 843 00:36:55,917 --> 00:36:57,875 even though he had been requested to do so. 844 00:36:57,959 --> 00:36:59,750 [instrumental music] 845 00:37:05,208 --> 00:37:06,709 [Mark Kernes] Marc Wallice was a very 846 00:37:06,792 --> 00:37:08,333 popular performer and he performed 847 00:37:08,417 --> 00:37:10,625 in a lot of X-rated movies. 848 00:37:10,709 --> 00:37:13,583 [instrumental music] 849 00:37:13,667 --> 00:37:15,500 He was very popular. 850 00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:19,458 Marc was a mainstay in the industry. 851 00:37:21,333 --> 00:37:23,166 Marc was liked by everybody. 852 00:37:23,250 --> 00:37:25,000 Who doesn't love Marc? 853 00:37:25,083 --> 00:37:27,625 [instrumental music] 854 00:37:27,709 --> 00:37:30,667 Certainly, in LA one of the top performers. 855 00:37:30,750 --> 00:37:31,834 [instrumental music] 856 00:37:37,417 --> 00:37:39,917 [Marc Wallice] I love bein' a porn star. 857 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,542 Man, it was great. Don't think you could ever 858 00:37:42,625 --> 00:37:43,834 get any better than that. 859 00:37:43,917 --> 00:37:45,125 The winner is... 860 00:37:45,208 --> 00:37:47,041 Misty Rain and Marc Wallice. 861 00:37:51,667 --> 00:37:52,834 [Michael Louis Alba] A lotta the women 862 00:37:52,917 --> 00:37:54,583 that worked in LFP 863 00:37:54,667 --> 00:37:56,500 that maybe weren't even associated 864 00:37:56,583 --> 00:37:58,959 with the adult end of the stuff we did 865 00:37:59,041 --> 00:38:01,583 loved Marc Wallice. 866 00:38:01,667 --> 00:38:05,333 There would always be this timid knock at my door, 867 00:38:05,417 --> 00:38:06,792 "You wouldn't happen to have any movies 868 00:38:06,875 --> 00:38:09,000 with Marc Wallice in 'em, would ya?" 869 00:38:09,083 --> 00:38:10,959 [instrumental music] 870 00:38:16,917 --> 00:38:19,000 He was with me for so long, 871 00:38:19,083 --> 00:38:23,166 he was almost like an adopted son. 872 00:38:23,250 --> 00:38:25,083 He was one of those old school guys 873 00:38:25,166 --> 00:38:27,583 that had been around forever... 874 00:38:27,667 --> 00:38:30,625 I really, really liked Marc Wallice. 875 00:38:30,709 --> 00:38:33,542 He was one of my favorite guys. You know, girls loved him. 876 00:38:33,625 --> 00:38:35,250 He had a little banana boat shaped penis, 877 00:38:35,333 --> 00:38:36,834 which was so easy to work with. 878 00:38:36,917 --> 00:38:38,375 Good-lookin', and girls I knew, 879 00:38:38,458 --> 00:38:41,583 they always spoke highly of him as well. 880 00:38:41,667 --> 00:38:43,500 [Bill Margold] Marc Wallice seemed to be 881 00:38:43,583 --> 00:38:47,166 the most carefree, irresponsible, 882 00:38:47,250 --> 00:38:49,083 out for the pure joy of it 883 00:38:49,166 --> 00:38:51,166 and I think the most vulnerable. 884 00:38:51,250 --> 00:38:53,750 He was sort of a rattling cage. 885 00:38:53,834 --> 00:38:55,834 I remember that when Viper worked with him 886 00:38:55,917 --> 00:38:58,250 she said that he had a strange death wish about him. 887 00:39:00,417 --> 00:39:03,583 Well, there is a arrest warrant for you in Shelby County. 888 00:39:03,667 --> 00:39:05,208 [Tom Byron] I met Marc Wallice... 889 00:39:05,291 --> 00:39:06,750 Can't we work something out? 890 00:39:06,834 --> 00:39:09,542 Probably a few months after we got into the business. 891 00:39:09,625 --> 00:39:11,959 No, ma'am, afraid we can't. The law is the law. 892 00:39:12,041 --> 00:39:15,000 Are you tryin' to bribe a peace officer? 893 00:39:15,083 --> 00:39:16,000 [Tom Byron] We were kinda like the hot 894 00:39:16,083 --> 00:39:17,542 young kids on the block. 895 00:39:17,625 --> 00:39:21,291 We had an apartment right off Sepulveda. 896 00:39:21,375 --> 00:39:24,291 He's definitely my best friend. 100 percent. 897 00:39:24,375 --> 00:39:27,375 [instrumental music] 898 00:39:34,041 --> 00:39:37,583 I get into business as a serious life choice. 899 00:39:37,667 --> 00:39:39,917 We're ever in your debt. 900 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,917 I don't know if he meant to find himself in this business. 901 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,709 I think it was an opportunity for him that he took. 902 00:39:48,792 --> 00:39:52,166 He wasn't like me. He didn't, he didn't seek it out. 903 00:39:52,250 --> 00:39:53,542 I didn't mean any harm. 904 00:39:53,625 --> 00:39:55,041 It was there, so he found it 905 00:39:55,125 --> 00:39:56,583 and I don't think he had 906 00:39:56,667 --> 00:39:58,083 a high opinion of himself 907 00:39:58,166 --> 00:39:59,583 for making that choice. 908 00:39:59,667 --> 00:40:02,959 I think he wanted to be... 909 00:40:03,041 --> 00:40:06,125 I'm not sure what he wanted to be, to tell you the truth. 910 00:40:06,208 --> 00:40:09,166 [instrumental music] 911 00:40:39,208 --> 00:40:42,208 ♪♪♪ 912 00:40:46,333 --> 00:40:48,959 There were rumors goin' around that it, that it might be him. 913 00:40:49,041 --> 00:40:53,333 And I was, like, "Uh, nah, it's fuckin', you know, Marc." 914 00:40:53,417 --> 00:40:54,917 [Ron Jeremy] Tom Byron and Marc 915 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,166 lived together, and Tom, 916 00:40:57,250 --> 00:40:58,875 and this is very poignant, I think, 917 00:40:58,959 --> 00:41:01,792 Tom had warned one of the girls 918 00:41:01,875 --> 00:41:04,875 not to work with his roommate, Marc. 919 00:41:04,959 --> 00:41:08,542 The only thing I knew about Marc is that he would disappear 920 00:41:08,625 --> 00:41:10,834 for days at a time and come back. 921 00:41:10,917 --> 00:41:14,375 Sketchy that I knew that he-he liked 922 00:41:14,458 --> 00:41:16,083 to go off and binge drugs. 923 00:41:16,166 --> 00:41:19,125 He loved to smoke cocaine. Loved it. 924 00:41:19,208 --> 00:41:21,000 [instrumental music] 925 00:41:24,333 --> 00:41:28,792 In April of 1998, my sources got coming to me and saying 926 00:41:28,875 --> 00:41:31,125 "Hey, it's Marc Wallice, he's the one behind it. 927 00:41:31,208 --> 00:41:33,333 Now, there are girls who won't work with him." 928 00:41:33,417 --> 00:41:36,792 "He's dangerous and he needs to be stopped." 929 00:41:36,875 --> 00:41:40,750 I posted that on my website, April 23rd, 1998, 930 00:41:40,834 --> 00:41:42,250 and everybody went crazy. 931 00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:43,875 [phone beeping] 932 00:41:46,125 --> 00:41:49,125 Marc Wallice called me said, "You did me wrong 933 00:41:49,208 --> 00:41:50,542 and this is not true." 934 00:41:50,625 --> 00:41:54,959 But it wasn't incandescent rage that I was dealing with. 935 00:41:55,041 --> 00:41:57,750 It wasn't what you would expect from an innocent man 936 00:41:57,834 --> 00:42:00,000 who'd been totally wronged. 937 00:42:00,083 --> 00:42:02,959 It was way too reasonable. 938 00:42:03,041 --> 00:42:04,750 He hadn't been tested, he hadn't been tested. 939 00:42:04,834 --> 00:42:07,083 It got to a point where everybody in the world 940 00:42:07,166 --> 00:42:09,417 had been tested that was involved in all those lists 941 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:12,000 and still Wallice hadn't been tested. 942 00:42:12,083 --> 00:42:13,500 [Luke Ford] Marc Wallice did not want 943 00:42:13,583 --> 00:42:15,333 to come in for a PCR DNA test. 944 00:42:15,417 --> 00:42:17,625 He did not, he was avoiding it. 945 00:42:17,709 --> 00:42:21,083 So, Sharon Mitchell let Marc slide on getting tested 946 00:42:21,166 --> 00:42:22,333 for a long time. 947 00:42:22,417 --> 00:42:23,792 [instrumental music] 948 00:42:26,208 --> 00:42:29,625 He told me that he had a... 949 00:42:29,709 --> 00:42:31,625 He had a test from his doctor 950 00:42:31,709 --> 00:42:33,375 and I took that at face value. 951 00:42:33,458 --> 00:42:36,834 She told me that she had asked him several times to come in 952 00:42:36,917 --> 00:42:39,917 uh, but they were friends and, you know, he assured her 953 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,333 that he had been tested and he was not HIV positive 954 00:42:43,417 --> 00:42:46,125 and for a while she accepted it. 955 00:42:46,208 --> 00:42:50,250 I love Marc and it's no secret that we had been lovers 956 00:42:50,333 --> 00:42:52,125 but it doesn't mean I'd let him get off the hook. 957 00:42:52,208 --> 00:42:53,250 Would you relax? 958 00:42:53,333 --> 00:42:55,000 This chick sniffs clues 959 00:42:55,083 --> 00:42:56,792 and then weeds them out like a bug. 960 00:42:56,875 --> 00:43:00,333 As the weeks dragged on, she started to worry, I think, 961 00:43:00,417 --> 00:43:03,875 and she became more insistent that he come in for testing 962 00:43:03,959 --> 00:43:05,792 with PCR DNA. 963 00:43:05,875 --> 00:43:06,875 [instrumental music] 964 00:43:10,166 --> 00:43:11,792 [Marc Wallice] I was bein' asked to come in 965 00:43:11,875 --> 00:43:14,417 and take a test, and I was busy. 966 00:43:14,500 --> 00:43:18,417 I was doin' this. I was doin' my show. I was editing. 967 00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:21,583 I just couldn't make it down. I said, "Okay, I'll get there, 968 00:43:21,667 --> 00:43:24,041 I'll get there," and he called me couple days later. 969 00:43:24,125 --> 00:43:25,792 "I'll get there." I just didn't think it was important. 970 00:43:25,875 --> 00:43:28,166 I didn't think it mattered because I knew 971 00:43:28,250 --> 00:43:29,834 I wasn't positive. 972 00:43:29,917 --> 00:43:32,125 Is this some kind of a joke? 973 00:43:32,208 --> 00:43:34,208 I didn't even give it a second thought. 974 00:43:34,291 --> 00:43:37,333 If the industry says "Herschel, you need to come in 975 00:43:37,417 --> 00:43:40,250 and take a test today." I say "For what?" 976 00:43:40,333 --> 00:43:42,917 They say, "Because of this." And I say, "Okay. I'll be in." 977 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,000 "I can't come in today, I'll be in tomorrow." 978 00:43:45,083 --> 00:43:47,333 You-you don't fuck around with that. 979 00:43:47,417 --> 00:43:50,625 Goddammit! Fuck, she's gonna get me. 980 00:43:50,709 --> 00:43:52,750 Goddammit. What the fuck! 981 00:43:52,834 --> 00:43:53,875 [woman] She doesn't even know 982 00:43:53,959 --> 00:43:55,166 who you are. 983 00:43:55,250 --> 00:43:56,291 [Sharon Mitchell] I'm into this 984 00:43:56,375 --> 00:43:57,333 testing protocol 985 00:43:57,417 --> 00:43:59,458 for eight or nine weeks 986 00:43:59,542 --> 00:44:03,208 and I'm down flipping the last few people 987 00:44:03,291 --> 00:44:04,625 that haven't been tested. 988 00:44:04,709 --> 00:44:09,166 And...this is it. You know, I knew it. 989 00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:13,041 It has to be, like, who, you know, like, why don't... 990 00:44:13,125 --> 00:44:15,375 Why doesn't he come and show us that it's not him? 991 00:44:15,458 --> 00:44:17,125 If that's, if that's what it is, 992 00:44:17,208 --> 00:44:19,500 it'll take simply take a blood draw 993 00:44:19,583 --> 00:44:22,291 for him to show us that it is not him. 994 00:44:22,375 --> 00:44:24,625 And he couldn't be bothered to do it. 995 00:44:24,709 --> 00:44:27,417 I was kinda buried in editing. 996 00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:28,875 [Marc Wallice] It was maybe two weeks, 997 00:44:28,959 --> 00:44:30,417 maybe two weeks and I just 998 00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:32,125 kept putting it off. 999 00:44:32,208 --> 00:44:34,000 And it's not really worth my time. 1000 00:44:34,083 --> 00:44:35,041 [Tricia Devereaux] Maybe he really 1001 00:44:35,125 --> 00:44:36,125 was just that much 1002 00:44:36,208 --> 00:44:37,417 of a fucking piece of shit 1003 00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:38,542 and selfish asshole. 1004 00:44:38,625 --> 00:44:40,500 To hear that you had worked 1005 00:44:40,583 --> 00:44:42,750 with five girls that all came up 1006 00:44:42,834 --> 00:44:45,500 HIV positive and you were the only person 1007 00:44:45,583 --> 00:44:48,959 who had worked with all five of those girls is, 1008 00:44:49,041 --> 00:44:51,291 maybe he's just stupid. 1009 00:44:51,375 --> 00:44:53,959 It wasn't at the top of my... It wasn't a priority. 1010 00:44:54,041 --> 00:44:57,291 It didn't seem necessary and it didn't sound urgent 1011 00:44:57,375 --> 00:44:59,041 from them. "Oh, Marc!" 1012 00:44:59,125 --> 00:45:00,792 They just said "Marc, you need to come down." 1013 00:45:00,875 --> 00:45:02,125 "We need to get another test." 1014 00:45:02,208 --> 00:45:04,083 I just thought it was another test. 1015 00:45:04,166 --> 00:45:05,166 [Sharon Mitchell] It was clear that Marc was 1016 00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:06,625 avoiding it every which way 1017 00:45:06,709 --> 00:45:08,500 and I'm calling him as my friend 1018 00:45:08,583 --> 00:45:10,625 and he's giving me the jive talk, it's bullshit. 1019 00:45:10,709 --> 00:45:12,583 And I know something's wrong. 1020 00:45:12,667 --> 00:45:15,875 Something was clear, you know, clearly wrong. 1021 00:45:15,959 --> 00:45:17,333 [Luke Ford] He would dissemble, 1022 00:45:17,417 --> 00:45:18,333 he would lie. 1023 00:45:18,417 --> 00:45:19,583 He would push it off. 1024 00:45:19,667 --> 00:45:21,250 He-he found it insulting. 1025 00:45:21,333 --> 00:45:23,250 He was at that point editing a series that he was doing 1026 00:45:23,333 --> 00:45:25,458 that he was doing for Elegant Angel 1027 00:45:25,542 --> 00:45:28,166 and claimed that he was not performing and that he hadn't 1028 00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:30,375 had on-camera sex for a while. 1029 00:45:30,458 --> 00:45:34,000 So, he didn't have to present any test that he claimed 1030 00:45:34,083 --> 00:45:35,667 that he hadn't even worked with these women... 1031 00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:39,709 Just anything to deflect it from him. 1032 00:45:39,792 --> 00:45:44,291 Um, I don't have an answer as to why Marc would refuse 1033 00:45:44,375 --> 00:45:45,959 to get a test. 1034 00:45:48,625 --> 00:45:50,667 He knew something was up obviously. 1035 00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:53,208 He knows I've got him by the balls. 1036 00:45:53,291 --> 00:45:54,291 [Marc Wallice] So then after the weekend, 1037 00:45:54,375 --> 00:45:56,000 Patrick Collins called me 1038 00:45:56,083 --> 00:45:59,959 and said, "Marc, Sharon has called you three times 1039 00:46:00,041 --> 00:46:03,458 to come down to AIM to take a test." 1040 00:46:03,542 --> 00:46:05,250 And he tells me, "You have to do that 1041 00:46:05,333 --> 00:46:06,709 or the cops are gonna come to your house." 1042 00:46:06,792 --> 00:46:08,709 I go, "What are you talkin' about?" 1043 00:46:08,792 --> 00:46:11,166 He says, "Just go take the test." 1044 00:46:11,250 --> 00:46:13,250 -This is the police. -Alright, alright. 1045 00:46:13,333 --> 00:46:15,000 Get your fuckin' hands up. 1046 00:46:15,083 --> 00:46:16,542 You with the bad haircut, up against the wall. 1047 00:46:16,625 --> 00:46:18,375 I'm not workin' today. I'll go down today. 1048 00:46:18,458 --> 00:46:19,875 Be there in ten minutes. 1049 00:46:23,709 --> 00:46:25,458 [engine starts] 1050 00:46:33,125 --> 00:46:35,250 Uh, you know, I'm not proud of what I had to do 1051 00:46:35,333 --> 00:46:38,166 but, I had to... 1052 00:46:41,792 --> 00:46:43,625 I had to go to Patrick Collins 1053 00:46:43,709 --> 00:46:46,166 who he was working for as a director 1054 00:46:46,250 --> 00:46:50,041 and tell him what was going on and what I suspected. 1055 00:46:50,125 --> 00:46:54,041 And I had Patrick hold out $10,000 and say he was going 1056 00:46:54,125 --> 00:46:56,417 to meet him in a van and I put him in the van 1057 00:46:56,500 --> 00:47:00,542 and I basically fucking kidnapped Marc to draw his blood 1058 00:47:00,625 --> 00:47:02,125 because he was that reluctant. 1059 00:47:02,208 --> 00:47:04,959 I know that's not ethical. 1060 00:47:05,041 --> 00:47:07,875 I'm telling you that's what I fucking had to do. 1061 00:47:07,959 --> 00:47:10,000 It was the only way I was gonna get proof. 1062 00:47:14,625 --> 00:47:17,083 Um, I'm not really proud of that 1063 00:47:17,166 --> 00:47:19,834 and I really haven't talked about that, 1064 00:47:19,917 --> 00:47:24,834 but...I had at this point, 1065 00:47:24,917 --> 00:47:29,542 like, 425 people at, at risk. 1066 00:47:29,625 --> 00:47:32,834 And I already had four girls, you know, grow in numbers 1067 00:47:32,917 --> 00:47:34,792 every week, I'm finding... 1068 00:47:34,875 --> 00:47:37,041 [sighing] 1069 00:47:37,125 --> 00:47:39,041 What the fuck would you do? You know... 1070 00:47:42,875 --> 00:47:47,542 Uh...he was not happy that night. 1071 00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:56,000 But it came back that he was positive. 1072 00:47:56,083 --> 00:47:58,542 He was clearly patient zero in this. 1073 00:47:58,625 --> 00:48:01,417 [instrumental music] 1074 00:48:04,333 --> 00:48:05,291 [Marc Wallice] Fuckin' Sharon. 1075 00:48:05,375 --> 00:48:06,542 She didn't do that. 1076 00:48:06,625 --> 00:48:08,250 That never happened. 1077 00:48:08,333 --> 00:48:11,667 Kidnapped? Thrown in a van? 1078 00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:15,250 Brought to AIM? Fuckin' Sharon Mitchell. 1079 00:48:15,333 --> 00:48:18,125 Wow. Wow. 1080 00:48:18,208 --> 00:48:21,709 It took really the insistence of Patrick Collins 1081 00:48:21,792 --> 00:48:23,417 to get him to come in for testing, 1082 00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:27,333 uh, and, you know, at that point they found his infection. 1083 00:48:27,417 --> 00:48:30,083 And since he was really the only thing in common 1084 00:48:30,166 --> 00:48:34,375 with all of the women who had turned out to be positive, 1085 00:48:34,458 --> 00:48:37,500 it's accepted fact in the industry at this point 1086 00:48:37,583 --> 00:48:40,709 that Marc Wallice was what they call "Patient Zero." 1087 00:48:40,792 --> 00:48:42,166 The person who had it first. 1088 00:48:43,667 --> 00:48:44,959 [telephone ringing] 1089 00:48:45,041 --> 00:48:46,500 [Marc Wallice] I got a call from Jim. 1090 00:48:46,583 --> 00:48:48,709 I go, "Hey, Jim, what's up?" 1091 00:48:48,792 --> 00:48:51,583 And he said, "You're positive." 1092 00:48:51,667 --> 00:48:54,250 And I don't remember anything 1093 00:48:54,333 --> 00:48:57,542 because I don't remember anything 1094 00:48:57,625 --> 00:49:00,000 at that moment. 1095 00:49:00,083 --> 00:49:01,041 [Tom Byron] I fuckin' remember the day 1096 00:49:01,125 --> 00:49:03,709 it happened, he just kept sayin' 1097 00:49:03,792 --> 00:49:05,625 "It's all over, man. It's all over, man." 1098 00:49:05,709 --> 00:49:07,208 "It's all over." 1099 00:49:07,291 --> 00:49:08,458 And then he, uh, 1100 00:49:08,542 --> 00:49:10,458 he went on another drug binge. 1101 00:49:10,542 --> 00:49:13,834 I-I-I was so incredibly 1102 00:49:13,917 --> 00:49:15,583 distraught during that period. 1103 00:49:15,667 --> 00:49:17,333 You have no idea. 1104 00:49:17,417 --> 00:49:19,625 I still... To this day, I still... 1105 00:49:26,583 --> 00:49:28,166 [sobbing] 1106 00:49:29,875 --> 00:49:32,709 [instrumental music] 1107 00:49:42,041 --> 00:49:43,417 [man] Not unlike certain other 1108 00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:45,667 culturally marginalized guilt, 1109 00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:48,166 the porn industry is occluded and insular in a way 1110 00:49:48,250 --> 00:49:50,417 that makes it seem like high school. 1111 00:49:50,500 --> 00:49:53,291 There are cliques, anti-cliques, alliances, 1112 00:49:53,375 --> 00:49:56,875 betrayals, conflagratory rumors, legendary enmities 1113 00:49:56,959 --> 00:49:58,834 and public bloodlettings. 1114 00:49:58,917 --> 00:50:01,834 You're either in or you're not. 1115 00:50:04,625 --> 00:50:08,041 So, Sharon Mitchell announced at an industry meeting 1116 00:50:08,125 --> 00:50:09,959 that Marc Wallice was patient zero 1117 00:50:10,041 --> 00:50:12,792 and that he was HIV positive. 1118 00:50:12,875 --> 00:50:15,834 This was a difficult time and I had to reveal what happened. 1119 00:50:15,917 --> 00:50:17,417 [Marc Wallice] Sharon announced 1120 00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:18,834 to all these people 1121 00:50:18,917 --> 00:50:21,000 that I'm HIV positive. 1122 00:50:21,083 --> 00:50:22,625 It was like public knowledge 1123 00:50:22,709 --> 00:50:25,083 that I was HIV positive. 1124 00:50:25,166 --> 00:50:26,500 I had to do what I had to do 1125 00:50:26,583 --> 00:50:28,750 and, and I know Marc's a big enough man 1126 00:50:28,834 --> 00:50:30,625 to understand that. 1127 00:50:30,709 --> 00:50:32,333 [Marc Wallice] Sharon Mitchell exposed 1128 00:50:32,417 --> 00:50:35,208 my medical records without my permission. 1129 00:50:35,291 --> 00:50:36,709 Sharon Mitchell... 1130 00:50:36,792 --> 00:50:38,375 Sharon Mitchell broke the law 1131 00:50:38,458 --> 00:50:40,625 and she'll be prosecuted for that. 1132 00:50:42,667 --> 00:50:44,625 That was an evil thing to do. 1133 00:50:44,709 --> 00:50:48,125 I hung him by the balls. 1134 00:50:48,208 --> 00:50:50,542 My job was to get him in there to get that fuckin' blood... 1135 00:50:50,625 --> 00:50:54,417 To tell the industry what was goin' on. 1136 00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:55,875 Marc Wallice was fucked 1137 00:50:55,959 --> 00:50:57,000 [Luke Ford] once Sharon Mitchell said 1138 00:50:57,083 --> 00:50:58,792 "We think he's patient zero." 1139 00:50:58,875 --> 00:51:00,667 From then on he was, he was fucked. 1140 00:51:00,750 --> 00:51:02,583 I mean, you need to have an unbelievable 1141 00:51:02,667 --> 00:51:06,166 public relations team to try to turn around that narrative. 1142 00:51:06,250 --> 00:51:09,458 I've got four and five chicks crying 1143 00:51:09,542 --> 00:51:13,834 because they were unaware that they were at risk. 1144 00:51:13,917 --> 00:51:16,250 And that's just as fuckin' ugly, isn't it? 1145 00:51:16,333 --> 00:51:19,417 I get so nervous, you know. I'm so scared-- 1146 00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:20,875 [Sharon Mitchell] I had to tell these women, 1147 00:51:20,959 --> 00:51:25,375 "I'm sorry...you got HIV." 1148 00:51:25,458 --> 00:51:26,834 I'm sorry. 1149 00:51:26,917 --> 00:51:29,125 Are you, like, a real doctor? 1150 00:51:29,208 --> 00:51:29,875 [woman] Don't be so scared, 1151 00:51:29,959 --> 00:51:30,917 it's alright. 1152 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,500 Um, you know what? 1153 00:51:32,583 --> 00:51:34,959 -Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. -Fuck you... 1154 00:51:35,041 --> 00:51:35,875 [Mark Kernes] After it was discovered, 1155 00:51:35,959 --> 00:51:37,625 he was HIV positive 1156 00:51:37,709 --> 00:51:39,417 and it seemed pretty likely 1157 00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:40,917 that he was patient zero, 1158 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,917 he became incredibly defensive. 1159 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:44,583 I don't exactly know why. 1160 00:51:44,667 --> 00:51:47,375 I walk out the door and I realize 1161 00:51:47,458 --> 00:51:50,000 "Shit! Everybody knows I'm HIV positive," 1162 00:51:50,083 --> 00:51:52,959 when that's supposed to be a private diagnosis. 1163 00:51:53,041 --> 00:51:55,417 I don't know what you're sayin'. So I can't answer you back. 1164 00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:59,125 You know what? Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. 1165 00:51:59,208 --> 00:52:02,000 At one point he claimed that he probably got it 1166 00:52:02,083 --> 00:52:04,333 from Tricia Devereaux, the first person 1167 00:52:04,417 --> 00:52:08,125 who showed up HIV positive, but that I think was ruled out 1168 00:52:08,208 --> 00:52:10,375 by tracing the genealogy. 1169 00:52:10,458 --> 00:52:12,250 He said "I think, maybe, you know, maybe the girls 1170 00:52:12,333 --> 00:52:14,250 gave it to me." 1171 00:52:14,333 --> 00:52:16,250 I haven't done nothin'. 1172 00:52:16,333 --> 00:52:19,166 It's part of what made the industry hate him. 1173 00:52:19,250 --> 00:52:20,667 [Jim South] All of a sudden, 1174 00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:21,875 people didn't like Marc. 1175 00:52:21,959 --> 00:52:23,709 This rumor was going around. 1176 00:52:23,792 --> 00:52:26,000 That rumor was goin' around. 1177 00:52:26,083 --> 00:52:30,166 And he sort of disappeared for quite a while. 1178 00:52:30,250 --> 00:52:33,792 He became vilified and-and he, he withdrew. 1179 00:52:33,875 --> 00:52:36,417 He, he hid for a while. 1180 00:52:38,458 --> 00:52:40,875 I just didn't know what to do. 1181 00:52:40,959 --> 00:52:43,625 What else... what would you do? 1182 00:52:43,709 --> 00:52:45,125 -Amaze. -Amazing. 1183 00:52:45,208 --> 00:52:47,083 What would you do if you were 1184 00:52:47,166 --> 00:52:49,583 famous or popular? 1185 00:52:49,667 --> 00:52:51,083 Just wanna thank everybody involved in the movie 1186 00:52:51,166 --> 00:52:54,208 and of course, Ms. Serena. 1187 00:52:54,291 --> 00:52:58,291 Then you're in the limelight and everybody knows who you are 1188 00:52:58,375 --> 00:52:59,834 and everybody loved your work... 1189 00:52:59,917 --> 00:53:01,750 Yes, I would especially like 1190 00:53:01,834 --> 00:53:05,375 to thank my buddy, Marc. 1191 00:53:05,458 --> 00:53:10,000 And all of a sudden this guy infected... 1192 00:53:10,083 --> 00:53:12,458 all these girls. 1193 00:53:19,166 --> 00:53:22,792 Holy shit! It was a dream. 1194 00:53:22,875 --> 00:53:24,166 [Tom Byron] All these questions started 1195 00:53:24,250 --> 00:53:26,125 coming out and it was just, 1196 00:53:26,208 --> 00:53:28,917 it was fucked up, man. 1197 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,625 And the thing that made me have to cut off contact with him 1198 00:53:31,709 --> 00:53:33,500 was his tests. 1199 00:53:36,834 --> 00:53:40,500 In 1998, there was a male actor who was HIV positive 1200 00:53:40,583 --> 00:53:43,625 who was going to county health clinics and forging his tests. 1201 00:53:43,709 --> 00:53:46,875 I discovered that this man gave six women HIV. 1202 00:53:46,959 --> 00:53:49,291 People were still tryin' to figure out what was going on. 1203 00:53:49,375 --> 00:53:53,083 And one of the reporters from AVN was very diligent 1204 00:53:53,166 --> 00:53:55,792 about saying this doesn't make sense. 1205 00:53:55,875 --> 00:53:59,500 When Marc Wallice was discovered to be HIV positive 1206 00:53:59,583 --> 00:54:02,125 with PCR DNA, he showed Sharon Mitchell 1207 00:54:02,208 --> 00:54:03,792 and other people in the industry 1208 00:54:03,875 --> 00:54:07,625 a copy of an ELISA test that he had. 1209 00:54:07,709 --> 00:54:10,041 He had this test from, uh, early March 1210 00:54:10,125 --> 00:54:11,333 that said he was HIV negative. 1211 00:54:11,417 --> 00:54:13,375 "Look, here's, here's my HIV test. 1212 00:54:13,458 --> 00:54:16,125 I'm not positive. I'm not infected." 1213 00:54:16,208 --> 00:54:20,291 So, is Marc, like, modifying his test results? 1214 00:54:20,375 --> 00:54:21,750 [Mark Kernes] His test looked okay, 1215 00:54:21,834 --> 00:54:24,542 but it was from a testing organization 1216 00:54:24,625 --> 00:54:27,083 that virtually no one else in the industry used. 1217 00:54:27,166 --> 00:54:31,542 And when myself and my then editor, Mark Logan, 1218 00:54:31,625 --> 00:54:34,750 went over to, uh, that testing facility 1219 00:54:34,834 --> 00:54:36,458 and spoke with the doctor, 1220 00:54:36,542 --> 00:54:39,500 we got a look at the original test. 1221 00:54:40,792 --> 00:54:44,041 It said, he was a woman. 1222 00:54:44,125 --> 00:54:46,417 It said he was a 49-year-old female. 1223 00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:48,750 And on the test that Wallice showed us, 1224 00:54:48,834 --> 00:54:50,166 it said he was a male. 1225 00:54:50,250 --> 00:54:52,500 So that test had been altered. 1226 00:54:52,583 --> 00:54:55,875 He was faking his tests. 1227 00:54:55,959 --> 00:54:57,709 [instrumental music] 1228 00:55:01,166 --> 00:55:03,750 It was like a fuckin' nuclear blast. 1229 00:55:05,834 --> 00:55:07,166 [instrumental music] 1230 00:55:09,166 --> 00:55:12,625 It was a complete fuckin', like... What? 1231 00:55:12,709 --> 00:55:15,500 Is Marc a monster? 1232 00:55:15,583 --> 00:55:17,041 I was chilling. I almost shit my pants. 1233 00:55:17,125 --> 00:55:18,291 They look at his tests and it says 1234 00:55:18,375 --> 00:55:20,542 he's a 49-year-old female. 1235 00:55:20,625 --> 00:55:24,000 And the address for the testing center i-is wrong. 1236 00:55:24,083 --> 00:55:25,875 [Mark Kernes] Wallice's test had the clinic's 1237 00:55:25,959 --> 00:55:29,083 old address rather than its current address. 1238 00:55:29,166 --> 00:55:33,041 The clinic had moved from there a year before Wallice's test. 1239 00:55:33,125 --> 00:55:36,458 So the test that Wallice had been presenting was different 1240 00:55:36,542 --> 00:55:39,917 from the one that the clinic had in its files. 1241 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,750 That, of course, raised even greater suspicions 1242 00:55:42,834 --> 00:55:44,875 and we got the test directly from the doctor 1243 00:55:44,959 --> 00:55:46,458 who was running that clinic. 1244 00:55:46,542 --> 00:55:48,291 So there's no question that the test 1245 00:55:48,375 --> 00:55:50,542 that we saw was the legitimate one 1246 00:55:50,625 --> 00:55:53,041 and apparently it had been altered by Wallice. 1247 00:55:53,125 --> 00:55:56,000 [instrumental music] 1248 00:55:56,083 --> 00:55:56,959 [Tom Byron] I knew the guy 1249 00:55:57,041 --> 00:55:58,000 better than anybody 1250 00:55:58,083 --> 00:55:59,917 and I'm going... 1251 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,291 I-I didn't believe it. 1252 00:56:01,375 --> 00:56:04,166 I never changed the results of any tests. 1253 00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:05,083 It was clearly forged. 1254 00:56:05,166 --> 00:56:06,083 [man] Do you remember 1255 00:56:06,166 --> 00:56:07,333 what part was forged? 1256 00:56:07,417 --> 00:56:10,208 Yeah, uh, where it says negative. 1257 00:56:10,291 --> 00:56:12,750 I changed the female to male 1258 00:56:12,834 --> 00:56:15,834 because I didn't want to show up with a test 1259 00:56:15,917 --> 00:56:18,375 that said female on me and I didn't even think that 1260 00:56:18,458 --> 00:56:20,083 "Oh, wait, it's got my name on it." 1261 00:56:20,166 --> 00:56:22,709 That's just a typo. 1262 00:56:22,792 --> 00:56:25,000 I researched it. I called the doctor. 1263 00:56:25,083 --> 00:56:27,291 I did background work 1264 00:56:27,375 --> 00:56:31,125 It was a forged test. 1265 00:56:31,208 --> 00:56:33,250 I'm telling you, they were forged results. 1266 00:56:33,333 --> 00:56:35,417 I'm absolutely positive. 1267 00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:39,208 I never changed the results from positive to negative 1268 00:56:39,291 --> 00:56:42,166 which is what people say I did. 1269 00:56:42,250 --> 00:56:43,917 Hindsight is a motherfucker, man. 1270 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,959 Because probably a year earlier 1271 00:56:48,041 --> 00:56:49,583 he got busted. 1272 00:56:49,667 --> 00:56:52,333 He had changed the date on a test 1273 00:56:52,417 --> 00:56:55,250 and somehow he got called on it. 1274 00:56:55,333 --> 00:56:56,709 [Luke Ford] In 1996, 1275 00:56:56,792 --> 00:56:58,625 he was written up in AVN 1276 00:56:58,709 --> 00:57:01,208 for changing dates on his HIV test 1277 00:57:01,291 --> 00:57:04,417 for VCA and De Renzy productions. 1278 00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:07,333 He could have been doing this for two years prior. 1279 00:57:07,417 --> 00:57:09,834 It's unbelievable, man. Geez. 1280 00:57:09,917 --> 00:57:11,166 [Marc Wallice] Every 30 days, 1281 00:57:11,250 --> 00:57:12,208 you need a new test 1282 00:57:12,291 --> 00:57:14,333 and I had to work tomorrow. 1283 00:57:14,417 --> 00:57:17,625 Grab my test, grab my wallet, and today... 1284 00:57:19,583 --> 00:57:21,208 Oh, shit. It's a day late. 1285 00:57:21,291 --> 00:57:23,667 And I remember somebody gettin' turned away 1286 00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:27,166 from a job because their test was two days old over date. 1287 00:57:27,250 --> 00:57:29,041 So I just changed 1288 00:57:29,125 --> 00:57:31,458 the-the one to an 11, 1289 00:57:31,542 --> 00:57:33,583 just added a number to it. 1290 00:57:33,667 --> 00:57:35,959 So I was able to work on that day. 1291 00:57:36,041 --> 00:57:38,750 And then got a new test the next day. 1292 00:57:38,834 --> 00:57:41,125 He was not fictitiating his results, 1293 00:57:41,208 --> 00:57:43,750 he was fictitiating the date the test was taken. 1294 00:57:43,834 --> 00:57:47,000 It's bad, if he's saying he was altering his tests, 1295 00:57:47,083 --> 00:57:48,458 because it's just bullshit. 1296 00:57:48,542 --> 00:57:49,792 You know what you have to do. 1297 00:57:49,875 --> 00:57:51,166 You oughta know what you have to do. 1298 00:57:51,250 --> 00:57:53,166 You have to make sure you're current. 1299 00:57:53,250 --> 00:57:55,583 I said, "Dude, that's not good. 1300 00:57:55,667 --> 00:57:57,333 You know, why'd you do that, you know?" 1301 00:57:57,417 --> 00:57:59,500 And he said "I didn't have money for the test." 1302 00:57:59,583 --> 00:58:00,750 which kind of was weird. 1303 00:58:00,834 --> 00:58:02,583 I was kinda like, "Whoa, dude 1304 00:58:02,667 --> 00:58:04,625 the fuckin' test, what's it's $35. I mean, what the fuck?" 1305 00:58:04,709 --> 00:58:06,458 I couldn't even think of changing the... 1306 00:58:06,542 --> 00:58:08,208 You know, I mean, it was I'd miss the job. 1307 00:58:08,291 --> 00:58:10,417 This was unheard of, this was not something 1308 00:58:10,500 --> 00:58:11,917 that I know anyone else doing. 1309 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,834 I couldn't give you an example of anyone else 1310 00:58:13,917 --> 00:58:16,083 to change the dates on their test, I'm sure it happened. 1311 00:58:16,166 --> 00:58:19,083 I mean, I-I-I hadn't heard of it. I'd never done it. 1312 00:58:19,166 --> 00:58:21,250 Did that mean he was doin' it all along? 1313 00:58:21,333 --> 00:58:23,834 -I don't know. -Actually, proactively... 1314 00:58:23,917 --> 00:58:26,709 -That's weird. -Go in and change a test. 1315 00:58:26,792 --> 00:58:29,792 To even take that hack... Man, it's bad. 1316 00:58:29,875 --> 00:58:31,458 [Tom Byron] If I didn't have the money 1317 00:58:31,542 --> 00:58:33,083 to go get a test, I'd go 1318 00:58:33,166 --> 00:58:36,208 to my agent and say, "Jim, front me $35 1319 00:58:36,291 --> 00:58:39,208 so I can go get a test, so I go get a test." 1320 00:58:39,291 --> 00:58:41,542 You know what I mean? So, altering, I... 1321 00:58:41,625 --> 00:58:43,333 No, I don't think anyone ever did. 1322 00:58:43,417 --> 00:58:45,291 Forging test is fucked. 1323 00:58:45,375 --> 00:58:47,625 Shouldn't be ever forging tests, period. 1324 00:58:47,709 --> 00:58:50,166 To even go there, you're way off the line, man. 1325 00:58:50,250 --> 00:58:51,500 You're way off the line. 1326 00:58:51,583 --> 00:58:53,834 I didn't give it a second thought. 1327 00:58:53,917 --> 00:58:57,625 I didn't think I was doin' anything wrong. 1328 00:58:57,709 --> 00:59:01,625 I just changed the date on a negative test. 1329 00:59:01,709 --> 00:59:04,166 However long he was forging his tests 1330 00:59:04,250 --> 00:59:07,417 and apparently HIV positive, he knew he had somethin'. 1331 00:59:07,500 --> 00:59:09,250 No one forges their tests. 1332 00:59:09,333 --> 00:59:10,583 No one would even want to be questioned. 1333 00:59:10,667 --> 00:59:12,125 They... You're-you're thinking, 1334 00:59:12,208 --> 00:59:13,834 I hope they don't see it. I hope they don't see it. 1335 00:59:13,917 --> 00:59:15,375 I hope they don't see it. 1336 00:59:15,458 --> 00:59:16,417 You better have something to say for yourself, 1337 00:59:16,500 --> 00:59:18,875 you fuckin' scumbag. 1338 00:59:18,959 --> 00:59:21,417 No one else was forging tests. I never forged a fucking test. 1339 00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:25,875 I was, like, working as much as anybody back then. 1340 00:59:25,959 --> 00:59:29,208 I'm not defending Marc, but God bless him 1341 00:59:29,291 --> 00:59:32,333 he stayed so screwed up on drugs. 1342 00:59:32,417 --> 00:59:36,333 I'm not excusing if he did what they say that he did 1343 00:59:36,417 --> 00:59:39,417 but anything is possible with him 1344 00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:42,333 as screwed up as he used to be. 1345 00:59:42,417 --> 00:59:45,041 [instrumental music] 1346 00:59:45,125 --> 00:59:46,208 [Mark Kernes] It came out that 1347 00:59:46,291 --> 00:59:48,041 he was a gay escort 1348 00:59:48,125 --> 00:59:50,834 and essentially prostituted himself. 1349 00:59:50,917 --> 00:59:52,834 He had done gay porn. 1350 00:59:52,917 --> 00:59:56,750 I knew he liked to walk on that wild side. 1351 00:59:56,834 --> 00:59:59,083 [Marc Wallice] No, no fuckin' way. 1352 00:59:59,166 --> 01:00:01,792 A gay out call? No, no. 1353 01:00:01,875 --> 01:00:05,750 What for? What for? 1354 01:00:05,834 --> 01:00:06,709 [Jim South] With the amount of money 1355 01:00:06,792 --> 01:00:08,500 Marc made, 1356 01:00:08,583 --> 01:00:11,125 I mean, I kept this guy busy. 1357 01:00:11,208 --> 01:00:12,375 That's why it doesn't make sense 1358 01:00:12,458 --> 01:00:15,458 about the out call stuff. 1359 01:00:15,542 --> 01:00:16,834 [Tom Byron] He disappeared 1360 01:00:16,917 --> 01:00:18,792 for days at a time 1361 01:00:18,875 --> 01:00:20,792 and would come back where I knew 1362 01:00:20,875 --> 01:00:23,917 he had been gettin' high. 1363 01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,583 And when you do cocaine and you do crystal meth, 1364 01:00:27,667 --> 01:00:30,583 you do things that you would not normally do. 1365 01:00:32,625 --> 01:00:36,041 And I also knew that he was fond of shooting cocaine. 1366 01:00:36,125 --> 01:00:38,250 [instrumental music] 1367 01:00:38,333 --> 01:00:41,417 [Marc Wallice] I did dabble with needles 1368 01:00:41,500 --> 01:00:43,458 maybe three times 1369 01:00:43,542 --> 01:00:45,417 and that was with coke, not heroin 1370 01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:47,834 and that was on my own. 1371 01:00:47,917 --> 01:00:49,542 Never with anybody. 1372 01:00:51,333 --> 01:00:52,250 [Herschel Savage] What's the difference how 1373 01:00:52,333 --> 01:00:53,250 he contracted it? 1374 01:00:53,333 --> 01:00:54,542 Either way, he was not 1375 01:00:54,625 --> 01:00:56,542 living a smart life, 1376 01:00:56,625 --> 01:00:59,458 just leaving yourself open to that kinda debauchery and shit. 1377 01:00:59,542 --> 01:01:02,583 I mean, your body's truly your temple if you're a porn star. 1378 01:01:02,667 --> 01:01:04,834 You gotta be clean, man. 1379 01:01:04,917 --> 01:01:06,625 [Mark Cromer] He never seemed to suggest 1380 01:01:06,709 --> 01:01:08,542 directly where he thought he got it, 1381 01:01:08,625 --> 01:01:10,667 which I thought was interesting. 1382 01:01:10,750 --> 01:01:13,750 He never said, "You know, I think I got it from X." 1383 01:01:15,375 --> 01:01:16,917 He never did. 1384 01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,917 [instrumental music] 1385 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:19,959 [man] How do you think you 1386 01:01:20,041 --> 01:01:21,750 contracted HIV? 1387 01:01:21,834 --> 01:01:23,667 I don't know. 1388 01:01:23,750 --> 01:01:26,125 [man] You must've been curious. 1389 01:01:26,208 --> 01:01:29,083 I didn't think about it. I didn't want to think about it. 1390 01:01:30,458 --> 01:01:32,500 How he got it? I don't know. 1391 01:01:32,583 --> 01:01:34,583 But he certainly did have enough behaviors 1392 01:01:34,667 --> 01:01:37,166 that he could very easily have contracted it. 1393 01:01:37,250 --> 01:01:39,500 So, on the one hand, uh, you know, 1394 01:01:39,583 --> 01:01:43,125 I'm as compassionate as anybody else for somebody who has HIV, 1395 01:01:43,208 --> 01:01:46,417 but on the other hand, I'm aware that he faked a test, 1396 01:01:46,500 --> 01:01:50,333 that he, you know, tried to deflect the possibility that 1397 01:01:50,417 --> 01:01:52,834 he was patient zero, he tried to deflect that completely, 1398 01:01:52,917 --> 01:01:55,083 he blamed other people for this, 1399 01:01:55,166 --> 01:01:58,333 when I think he knew that he was HIV positive 1400 01:01:58,417 --> 01:02:02,500 or at least suspected it, and that's why he faked his tests. 1401 01:02:02,583 --> 01:02:05,667 Marc said that he never knew that he had HIV, 1402 01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:08,250 that everything on the test, of, it's saying that 1403 01:02:08,333 --> 01:02:09,875 he was a 44-year-old woman, 1404 01:02:09,959 --> 01:02:12,000 the fact that he went to a clinic 1405 01:02:12,083 --> 01:02:14,000 that didn't even exist anymore, 1406 01:02:14,083 --> 01:02:16,125 that all of those things are a complete coincidence. 1407 01:02:16,208 --> 01:02:18,125 That, him not going to get a DNA test 1408 01:02:18,208 --> 01:02:20,792 was simply because he couldn't be bothered to. 1409 01:02:20,875 --> 01:02:22,458 Well, that shows how much he cared about our family. 1410 01:02:22,542 --> 01:02:24,417 [instrumental music] 1411 01:02:26,500 --> 01:02:28,083 He betrayed the rest of us. 1412 01:02:28,166 --> 01:02:30,500 He was blowin' people's lives away, man, 1413 01:02:30,583 --> 01:02:32,083 left and right. 1414 01:02:32,166 --> 01:02:34,834 That's so fucked up. 1415 01:02:34,917 --> 01:02:37,375 The narrative was... 1416 01:02:37,458 --> 01:02:39,125 he was a monster. 1417 01:02:39,208 --> 01:02:40,625 There's nothin' like the presence of evil 1418 01:02:40,709 --> 01:02:41,917 to shake a few bricks loose 1419 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,917 from a solid foundation. 1420 01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,959 He knew that he was positive and... 1421 01:02:48,041 --> 01:02:50,625 he fuckin' worked anyway. 1422 01:02:50,709 --> 01:02:53,125 And he fuckin' infected all these girls. 1423 01:02:54,750 --> 01:02:55,959 People were after him and Marc 1424 01:02:56,041 --> 01:02:58,500 was absolutely fuckin' terrified. 1425 01:02:58,583 --> 01:02:59,625 It was like "Frankenstein." 1426 01:02:59,709 --> 01:03:00,792 With a fuckin' torch and there 1427 01:03:00,875 --> 01:03:02,083 chasing the poor fucker up 1428 01:03:02,166 --> 01:03:03,166 that castle, you know? 1429 01:03:03,250 --> 01:03:04,625 There he is! 1430 01:03:04,709 --> 01:03:06,375 [Sharon Mitchell] I just felt like that was Marc 1431 01:03:06,458 --> 01:03:08,417 running up that tower, 1432 01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:09,959 being scared of the fire 1433 01:03:10,041 --> 01:03:12,041 and Marc just thinking... 1434 01:03:14,083 --> 01:03:16,083 "Fuck, it's just me. Marc." 1435 01:03:17,458 --> 01:03:19,208 [upbeat music] 1436 01:03:24,041 --> 01:03:25,750 [gunshots] 1437 01:03:27,875 --> 01:03:30,291 Can we point now at Marc and say 1438 01:03:30,375 --> 01:03:33,959 "This is a man of such unfathomable evil?" 1439 01:03:34,041 --> 01:03:35,834 And that's what the industry did. 1440 01:03:35,917 --> 01:03:37,625 They went from Marc is our friend 1441 01:03:37,709 --> 01:03:39,834 to he is not one of us, 1442 01:03:39,917 --> 01:03:43,000 and he is the one responsible 1443 01:03:43,083 --> 01:03:45,959 for wreaking havoc on our beautiful industry. 1444 01:03:46,041 --> 01:03:48,625 The film generated a lotta money for a lotta people. 1445 01:03:48,709 --> 01:03:49,917 [Luke Ford] If it wasn't for Marc, 1446 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,458 everything would be blowjobs and lollipops. 1447 01:03:52,542 --> 01:03:53,959 [gunshots] 1448 01:03:54,041 --> 01:03:56,041 [instrumental music] 1449 01:04:05,041 --> 01:04:07,542 You have to realize this man was absolutely 1450 01:04:07,625 --> 01:04:09,667 fuckin' terrified. 1451 01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:10,750 [Luke Ford] The dominant view 1452 01:04:10,834 --> 01:04:12,291 was that he was a sociopath, 1453 01:04:12,375 --> 01:04:14,417 that he knew he was HIV positive 1454 01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:17,458 and that he was passing it along to girls in the industry. 1455 01:04:17,542 --> 01:04:19,000 [Herschel Savage] How the fuck do you 1456 01:04:19,083 --> 01:04:20,166 do that, man? What are you sayin', 1457 01:04:20,250 --> 01:04:22,291 maybe she won't get it? 1458 01:04:22,375 --> 01:04:23,917 What the fuck is wrong with you, man? 1459 01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,083 [upbeat music] 1460 01:04:29,166 --> 01:04:30,750 You have to fuckin' have a line! 1461 01:04:30,834 --> 01:04:32,500 Or, like, I'm fucking her life up. 1462 01:04:32,583 --> 01:04:34,667 And if you don't have a line, you have to, like, 1463 01:04:34,750 --> 01:04:35,959 displace your personality and just 1464 01:04:36,041 --> 01:04:37,875 become a zombie, emotionally and say 1465 01:04:37,959 --> 01:04:40,500 I gotta cover myself, I gotta cover myself! 1466 01:04:40,583 --> 01:04:42,291 [Bill Margold] He was being bandied about 1467 01:04:42,375 --> 01:04:45,750 as a criminal, as a murderer, as an assassin. 1468 01:04:45,834 --> 01:04:47,917 -Don't shoot me! Don't shoot me! -Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! 1469 01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,417 He was just infecting girl after girl. 1470 01:04:50,500 --> 01:04:52,542 He's a serial killer just trying to get away with it 1471 01:04:52,625 --> 01:04:54,667 for as long as he could. 1472 01:04:54,750 --> 01:04:56,125 [Bill Margold] If he had been all 1473 01:04:56,208 --> 01:04:58,709 of those things, and one of the girls 1474 01:04:58,792 --> 01:05:01,000 had found out that he absolutely knew, 1475 01:05:01,083 --> 01:05:04,250 one of those girls could've easily made a phone call 1476 01:05:04,333 --> 01:05:08,667 to some boyfriend who woulda blown Marc's brains out. 1477 01:05:08,750 --> 01:05:11,250 [Ron Jeremy] If any of the girls were Italian 1478 01:05:11,333 --> 01:05:13,166 you would not be talking to Marc on this documentary. 1479 01:05:13,250 --> 01:05:15,625 I made my bones while you were sniffin' out 1480 01:05:15,709 --> 01:05:17,875 your first piece of pussy. 1481 01:05:17,959 --> 01:05:18,792 [Sharon Mitchell] I know people wanted 1482 01:05:18,875 --> 01:05:20,166 to hang the guy. 1483 01:05:20,250 --> 01:05:21,333 It was ugly. 1484 01:05:21,417 --> 01:05:23,667 [gun firing] 1485 01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:25,625 [upbeat music] 1486 01:05:32,583 --> 01:05:33,500 [gun cocking] 1487 01:05:33,583 --> 01:05:34,667 [gunshots] 1488 01:05:34,750 --> 01:05:36,792 [audience cheering] 1489 01:05:39,959 --> 01:05:43,542 I watched an entire industry turn their back 1490 01:05:43,625 --> 01:05:46,291 on someone who was a huge, 1491 01:05:46,375 --> 01:05:50,834 huge, huge influence in the adult industry. 1492 01:05:50,917 --> 01:05:55,166 To this day, his name is not spoken in this fuckin' business. 1493 01:05:58,000 --> 01:05:59,917 I can't take this anymore. 1494 01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,792 [Mark Cromer] He seemed so stunned 1495 01:06:02,875 --> 01:06:04,750 that the industry could turn on him. 1496 01:06:04,834 --> 01:06:08,000 He'd just been cast out from... 1497 01:06:08,083 --> 01:06:10,917 a group of outcasts. 1498 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:12,208 What'd you guys just win for here? 1499 01:06:12,291 --> 01:06:14,834 -Couple sex scene. -It was real. 1500 01:06:14,917 --> 01:06:17,041 It's a hard pill to swallow 1501 01:06:17,125 --> 01:06:19,542 when you've made as much money 1502 01:06:19,625 --> 01:06:21,208 for so many people as Marc did... 1503 01:06:21,291 --> 01:06:23,208 Alex Jordan, "Body And Soul." 1504 01:06:23,291 --> 01:06:24,250 [Sharon Mitchell] To be ridiculed 1505 01:06:24,333 --> 01:06:25,834 and humiliated. 1506 01:06:27,959 --> 01:06:30,667 I haven't been close to anybody like this in so long. 1507 01:06:32,291 --> 01:06:34,542 I cut off communication with him, 'cause I, I... 1508 01:06:34,625 --> 01:06:36,542 It was hard to deal with the fact that your... 1509 01:06:36,625 --> 01:06:38,333 Your friend had a potentially fatal disease, 1510 01:06:38,417 --> 01:06:43,041 and because I was so closely associated with him, 1511 01:06:43,125 --> 01:06:45,875 I was sort of being dragged into 1512 01:06:45,959 --> 01:06:48,500 what he was going through. 1513 01:06:48,583 --> 01:06:52,625 The sense of betrayal was very clear. 1514 01:06:52,709 --> 01:06:54,417 I just cut off contact. 1515 01:06:54,500 --> 01:06:57,667 He-he called my answering machine. 1516 01:06:57,750 --> 01:06:59,709 He said "I just want to hear it from you." 1517 01:07:03,125 --> 01:07:05,417 I didn't call him back. I didn't have the balls. 1518 01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:07,583 They haven't... I haven't talked to him since. 1519 01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:10,709 [Ginger Lynn] I don't know if you've ever 1520 01:07:10,792 --> 01:07:12,000 been in a position 1521 01:07:12,083 --> 01:07:13,792 where you're so down, 1522 01:07:13,875 --> 01:07:16,792 you're so depressed, you're so lost, 1523 01:07:16,875 --> 01:07:19,083 you have no money, you have no food, you have nowhere to live, 1524 01:07:19,166 --> 01:07:21,125 everyone's turned their back on you. 1525 01:07:22,875 --> 01:07:24,375 What do you do? 1526 01:07:29,959 --> 01:07:32,667 Marc Wallice disappeared. 1527 01:07:32,750 --> 01:07:35,583 He went into a-a downward spiral. 1528 01:07:37,375 --> 01:07:38,250 [Marc Wallice] After I found out I was 1529 01:07:38,333 --> 01:07:39,917 HIV positive, 1530 01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:43,917 I packed a bag, called a cab, 1531 01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:45,834 checked in a hotel. 1532 01:07:45,917 --> 01:07:47,917 [instrumental music] 1533 01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,000 Yeah, it was rough. 1534 01:07:50,083 --> 01:07:52,625 He was a man on the edge and he understandably 1535 01:07:52,709 --> 01:07:54,125 had a suicidal impulse, you know. 1536 01:07:54,208 --> 01:07:56,041 "Let me just end my life." 1537 01:07:56,125 --> 01:07:57,333 [Marc Wallice] I spent the next 1538 01:07:57,417 --> 01:07:58,500 month and a half doing 1539 01:07:58,583 --> 01:07:59,667 as much coke as I could, 1540 01:07:59,750 --> 01:08:01,542 just never running out. 1541 01:08:01,625 --> 01:08:04,834 Scoring every couple days, havin' it delivered, 1542 01:08:04,917 --> 01:08:08,959 and just hoping I wouldn't wake up the next day. 1543 01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:11,041 But, uh... 1544 01:08:12,834 --> 01:08:13,875 that didn't work. 1545 01:08:16,083 --> 01:08:17,000 [man] Do you feel that you 1546 01:08:17,083 --> 01:08:19,750 betrayed him? 1547 01:08:19,834 --> 01:08:21,333 How can I not? 1548 01:08:22,583 --> 01:08:24,125 You know... 1549 01:08:24,208 --> 01:08:27,208 Uh... I... Of course I should've been there for him. 1550 01:08:27,291 --> 01:08:29,041 He was my friend. 1551 01:08:31,917 --> 01:08:32,750 [woman on TV] Choose adult entertainment 1552 01:08:32,834 --> 01:08:34,250 24 hours a day. 1553 01:08:34,333 --> 01:08:35,625 Adult entertainment 24 hours a day. 1554 01:08:35,709 --> 01:08:38,417 Adult entertainment 24 hours a day... 1555 01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:39,875 Adult entertainment... Adult entertainment... 1556 01:08:39,959 --> 01:08:41,375 -You look fabulous. -Adult entertainment... 1557 01:08:41,458 --> 01:08:43,041 Adult entertainment... 1558 01:08:43,125 --> 01:08:45,375 Adult entertainment 24 hours a day. 1559 01:08:45,458 --> 01:08:47,500 Adult entertainment 24 hours a day. 1560 01:08:47,583 --> 01:08:49,041 -Money. -Money. 1561 01:08:49,125 --> 01:08:50,166 Shut... 1562 01:09:00,583 --> 01:09:02,625 [Tim Tritch] Marc Wallice may indeed be 1563 01:09:02,709 --> 01:09:05,542 patient zero for all these people getting infected. 1564 01:09:05,625 --> 01:09:08,542 But, and this is a big but... 1565 01:09:08,625 --> 01:09:11,542 I know for a fact that neither of those tests 1566 01:09:11,625 --> 01:09:12,750 are forgeries. 1567 01:09:14,208 --> 01:09:18,000 I came in with AIM around 2001. 1568 01:09:18,083 --> 01:09:21,250 And-and it was through AIM, and talking with Sharon Mitchell 1569 01:09:21,333 --> 01:09:23,333 that I'd learned about all of this. 1570 01:09:23,417 --> 01:09:24,834 One day, she told me, you know, the whole story 1571 01:09:24,917 --> 01:09:26,834 of what prompted the whole beginning of AIM. 1572 01:09:26,917 --> 01:09:29,125 And she told me about this guy forging tests 1573 01:09:29,208 --> 01:09:31,291 and I kinda realized, 1574 01:09:31,375 --> 01:09:33,333 "Hey, this is that thing that happened 1575 01:09:33,417 --> 01:09:35,458 when I was working at TCL 1576 01:09:35,542 --> 01:09:37,583 and MSI and Bio Cipher." 1577 01:09:37,667 --> 01:09:40,750 And I began to look into it myself from then. 1578 01:09:40,834 --> 01:09:43,291 And I went, "Hey, these were, tests weren't forgeries." 1579 01:09:43,375 --> 01:09:45,500 The 49-year-old female day was just 1580 01:09:45,583 --> 01:09:47,417 part of that thing that happened one day 1581 01:09:47,500 --> 01:09:49,208 when I had to put that whole crew together 1582 01:09:49,291 --> 01:09:50,834 to fix all these reports. 1583 01:09:50,917 --> 01:09:52,625 And then, I looked at the other report 1584 01:09:52,709 --> 01:09:54,667 that said the location was different. 1585 01:09:54,750 --> 01:09:57,125 And I said, "Yeah, that's when they closed their location." 1586 01:09:57,208 --> 01:09:59,792 And we took all the stuff over to the other location. 1587 01:09:59,875 --> 01:10:01,458 These are not forgeries. 1588 01:10:01,542 --> 01:10:03,250 On the Lord above, I'm tellin' you the truth. 1589 01:10:03,333 --> 01:10:06,417 I did not want to get bad news about Marc 'cause I liked Marc. 1590 01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:08,417 But the doctor himself's a forgery. 1591 01:10:10,792 --> 01:10:12,583 There's a couple things that don't fit. 1592 01:10:12,667 --> 01:10:14,375 Perhaps now that I look at it. 1593 01:10:14,458 --> 01:10:17,875 But I saw that this was done, so I thought, "Oh, wow." 1594 01:10:17,959 --> 01:10:19,125 [Tim Tritch] One of those tests had 1595 01:10:19,208 --> 01:10:20,458 information on it that said 1596 01:10:20,542 --> 01:10:23,667 he was a 49-year-old female. 1597 01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:27,792 There was a mix up of papers in our laboratory that night. 1598 01:10:27,875 --> 01:10:31,917 The person inputting information made a mistake 1599 01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,291 and they'd flipped over two pieces of paper at one time, 1600 01:10:35,375 --> 01:10:37,583 and without matching up the numbers, 1601 01:10:37,667 --> 01:10:40,166 simply put in another patient's information. 1602 01:10:40,250 --> 01:10:41,834 And as a result, 1603 01:10:41,917 --> 01:10:44,291 34 patients that night 1604 01:10:44,375 --> 01:10:47,834 got the wrong patient information 1605 01:10:47,917 --> 01:10:50,250 put into the computer system. 1606 01:10:50,333 --> 01:10:52,959 One of those patients was Marc Wallice. 1607 01:10:53,041 --> 01:10:55,625 [instrumental music] 1608 01:10:55,709 --> 01:10:59,166 I did personally see Marc Wallice's original test 1609 01:10:59,250 --> 01:11:01,000 which we obtained at the clinic. 1610 01:11:01,083 --> 01:11:02,834 I asked the doctor. 1611 01:11:02,917 --> 01:11:05,250 I said to the doctor, "Can there be any other mistake?" 1612 01:11:05,333 --> 01:11:06,542 And he goes, "No, no. That had... 1613 01:11:06,625 --> 01:11:08,333 This test is the problem." 1614 01:11:08,417 --> 01:11:10,625 [Mark Kernes] Again on the original test, 1615 01:11:10,709 --> 01:11:13,208 it said he was a 49-year-old female. 1616 01:11:13,291 --> 01:11:15,750 Actually, I know the name 1617 01:11:15,834 --> 01:11:18,041 of the 49-year-old female. 1618 01:11:18,125 --> 01:11:21,125 I-I know her name because I was the person who was in charge 1619 01:11:21,208 --> 01:11:23,959 of fixing that whole mess. 1620 01:11:24,041 --> 01:11:25,333 [Bill Margold] I can't tell you how many 1621 01:11:25,417 --> 01:11:26,917 females came back as males, 1622 01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,458 and males came back as females. 1623 01:11:28,542 --> 01:11:30,750 -But it was common. -It-it wasn't uncommon. 1624 01:11:30,834 --> 01:11:33,000 Let's put it that way, there were mistakes. 1625 01:11:33,083 --> 01:11:34,458 [man] Can you explain why Marc's 1626 01:11:34,542 --> 01:11:36,166 test would have had the address for a clinic 1627 01:11:36,250 --> 01:11:38,208 that had closed a year earlier? 1628 01:11:38,291 --> 01:11:42,000 Uh, North-East Valley Clinic had three clinics at one time. 1629 01:11:42,083 --> 01:11:45,041 Each clinic had a separate account number, 1630 01:11:45,125 --> 01:11:48,583 so that all of the results would go back to the proper clinics. 1631 01:11:48,667 --> 01:11:50,500 When one clinic closed, 1632 01:11:50,583 --> 01:11:53,583 they took all of the laboratory supplies that were in there 1633 01:11:53,667 --> 01:11:55,417 to one of the other clinics. 1634 01:11:55,500 --> 01:11:59,000 They also took the requisition slips, 1635 01:11:59,083 --> 01:12:02,500 and eventually, someone used those slips 1636 01:12:02,583 --> 01:12:03,959 with that address on it. 1637 01:12:04,041 --> 01:12:06,625 When that location closed, 1638 01:12:06,709 --> 01:12:10,125 the laboratory updated their computer system 1639 01:12:10,208 --> 01:12:12,458 so that any outstanding result 1640 01:12:12,542 --> 01:12:15,750 from that account number and from that location 1641 01:12:15,834 --> 01:12:18,792 would go to one of the other locations. 1642 01:12:18,875 --> 01:12:21,083 So it was actually just a simple thing of 1643 01:12:21,166 --> 01:12:24,583 the requisition slip for the laboratory from that location 1644 01:12:24,667 --> 01:12:27,500 being brought over to one of the other locations. 1645 01:12:27,583 --> 01:12:29,500 How did they fuck up this one guy? 1646 01:12:29,583 --> 01:12:32,125 How does that fuckin' happen? What... 1647 01:12:32,208 --> 01:12:35,166 I mean, talk about a... 1648 01:12:35,250 --> 01:12:37,959 That's a weird thing to happen, don't you think? 1649 01:12:38,041 --> 01:12:40,917 You know, because of who he is. 1650 01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:42,875 [Tim Tritch] He fit in the genealogies, 1651 01:12:42,959 --> 01:12:45,667 he had a past history of altering that test. 1652 01:12:45,750 --> 01:12:48,000 I think that was a real big factor in it, 1653 01:12:48,083 --> 01:12:49,917 and so they thought this is a smoking gun, 1654 01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:51,709 he used an old test or something 1655 01:12:51,792 --> 01:12:53,792 and forged the dates on that again. 1656 01:12:53,875 --> 01:12:57,792 And I believe that past bad act 1657 01:12:57,875 --> 01:13:00,000 had a lot to do with people 1658 01:13:00,083 --> 01:13:03,375 assuming that he had done it again. 1659 01:13:03,458 --> 01:13:05,000 I don't understand how he would've gotten away 1660 01:13:05,083 --> 01:13:08,333 with his tests for two years. 1661 01:13:08,417 --> 01:13:09,458 [Tim Tritch] He had to be showing tests 1662 01:13:09,542 --> 01:13:11,959 to work in all of these previous shoots. 1663 01:13:12,041 --> 01:13:14,625 And I assume they were all showing he was negative. 1664 01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:16,500 -You've been working a lot or... -Yeah. 1665 01:13:16,583 --> 01:13:18,750 These were ELISA tests at the time. 1666 01:13:18,834 --> 01:13:22,500 The initial ELISA can have a false negative. 1667 01:13:22,583 --> 01:13:24,417 [Tim Tritch] It's rare, but Marc Wallice 1668 01:13:24,500 --> 01:13:26,875 might've just been one of those people 1669 01:13:26,959 --> 01:13:30,417 who may have indeed been HIV positive, 1670 01:13:30,500 --> 01:13:33,917 but his body just did not develop the antigen 1671 01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,250 that would make an ELISA test show positive. 1672 01:13:37,333 --> 01:13:38,333 [man] This is called 1673 01:13:38,417 --> 01:13:40,208 a False Negative test result. 1674 01:13:40,291 --> 01:13:42,166 [instrumental music] 1675 01:13:47,500 --> 01:13:49,375 [Luke Ford] It is entirely possible that 1676 01:13:49,458 --> 01:13:53,333 Marc Wallice might've had some ELISA tests for HIV 1677 01:13:53,417 --> 01:13:57,166 where it showed up negative when he was in fact positive. 1678 01:13:57,250 --> 01:13:59,709 It's very, very rare that a person 1679 01:13:59,792 --> 01:14:03,041 who has HIV would not have sero-converted yet. 1680 01:14:03,125 --> 01:14:04,917 Um, so they would not be coming positive 1681 01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,166 on the ELISA tests that they were doing. 1682 01:14:08,959 --> 01:14:11,375 Oh, yeah, he could've gone six months 1683 01:14:11,458 --> 01:14:13,667 with negative tests without knowing. 1684 01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:15,709 [instrumental music] 1685 01:14:20,959 --> 01:14:21,917 [Tim Tritch] A routine window 1686 01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:23,542 for this ELISA test 1687 01:14:23,625 --> 01:14:25,709 they say can be up to six months. 1688 01:14:25,792 --> 01:14:28,750 And if they say it's up to six months, well... 1689 01:14:28,834 --> 01:14:31,166 it can be possibly, in some people, 1690 01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:32,834 be even longer than that. 1691 01:14:32,917 --> 01:14:35,375 I think it's still really unclear 1692 01:14:35,458 --> 01:14:37,709 when Marc Wallice was actually infected. 1693 01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:44,500 Marc Wallice was a very active performer in 1997 and before. 1694 01:14:44,583 --> 01:14:47,667 So what about all the other women who worked with Marc? 1695 01:14:49,542 --> 01:14:52,166 [Ron Jeremy] Barbara Doll claims that 1696 01:14:52,250 --> 01:14:54,583 she got HIV, uh, from Marc. 1697 01:14:54,667 --> 01:14:56,875 Hi, there. I'm Marc Wallice. 1698 01:14:56,959 --> 01:14:58,917 Hi. I'm Barbara Doll. 1699 01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,041 It appeared to me that he was the most likely source 1700 01:15:02,125 --> 01:15:03,959 for Barbara Doll's infection. 1701 01:15:04,041 --> 01:15:06,875 -She requested us. -Yeah. Specifically. 1702 01:15:06,959 --> 01:15:09,333 [Luke Ford] She was infected in 1995. 1703 01:15:09,417 --> 01:15:11,333 But HIV is very difficult to transmit. 1704 01:15:11,417 --> 01:15:13,041 -She likes us. -And... 1705 01:15:13,125 --> 01:15:14,333 [Luke Ford] So it doesn't surprise me 1706 01:15:14,417 --> 01:15:16,333 that Marc could work with women 1707 01:15:16,417 --> 01:15:18,500 and they not get HIV. 1708 01:15:18,583 --> 01:15:19,875 [man] Having a low viral load 1709 01:15:19,959 --> 01:15:21,542 decreases the risk 1710 01:15:21,625 --> 01:15:23,875 that you will pass HIV through sexual contact. 1711 01:15:23,959 --> 01:15:24,875 [Tom Horowitz] Is it possible 1712 01:15:24,959 --> 01:15:25,959 for one encounter 1713 01:15:26,041 --> 01:15:27,500 to cause an infection? Yes. 1714 01:15:27,583 --> 01:15:29,333 Is it possible for there to be 1715 01:15:29,417 --> 01:15:32,417 hundreds of contacts and no infection? Yes. 1716 01:15:32,500 --> 01:15:34,750 The person who has a non-detectable viral load 1717 01:15:34,834 --> 01:15:38,834 is much less likely to transmit the virus. 1718 01:15:38,917 --> 01:15:41,333 It's possible that he had a viral surge 1719 01:15:41,417 --> 01:15:43,917 and then being a healthy man 1720 01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,291 could have went down to a normal level for a while 1721 01:15:46,375 --> 01:15:48,250 and not infected anyone and resurge. 1722 01:15:48,333 --> 01:15:49,834 So it is possible. 1723 01:15:49,917 --> 01:15:51,709 Is it possible? Yes. 1724 01:15:51,792 --> 01:15:54,583 Add in the whole wrong age, wrong clinic 1725 01:15:54,667 --> 01:15:58,291 all the waffling and change the stories about what happened 1726 01:15:58,375 --> 01:16:01,250 and it definitely brings up a lot of red flags in my mind 1727 01:16:01,333 --> 01:16:04,750 about had he seen a test that said something different. 1728 01:16:06,917 --> 01:16:08,542 [Tim Tritch] According to Marc Wallice, 1729 01:16:08,625 --> 01:16:11,583 he never started HIV treatment 1730 01:16:11,667 --> 01:16:16,000 until after that PCR test with Sharon Mitchell. 1731 01:16:16,083 --> 01:16:19,542 Boy, you'd think someone would have started treatment for it. 1732 01:16:19,625 --> 01:16:22,542 He was an adult, if he had HIV, he was gonna get treated. 1733 01:16:22,625 --> 01:16:25,417 Unfortunately, nothing works. 1734 01:16:25,500 --> 01:16:28,375 You wouldn't have a miracle drug on you by chance, would you? 1735 01:16:28,458 --> 01:16:30,000 [mumbles] 1736 01:16:30,083 --> 01:16:33,250 I don't think that the possible explanations 1737 01:16:33,333 --> 01:16:35,542 explain his behavior. 1738 01:16:35,625 --> 01:16:39,166 If he had gotten his HIV test when everybody else did, 1739 01:16:39,250 --> 01:16:42,125 Brooke wouldn't have HIV, Caroline wouldn't have HIV, 1740 01:16:42,208 --> 01:16:44,000 Kimberly wouldn't have HIV from him. 1741 01:16:44,083 --> 01:16:47,208 So he was still negligent, and his behavior is not excused. 1742 01:16:48,917 --> 01:16:51,208 I can tell you, I can tell you 1743 01:16:51,291 --> 01:16:52,709 from the bottom of my heart, 1744 01:16:52,792 --> 01:16:55,291 I did not infect these women... 1745 01:16:55,375 --> 01:16:58,583 knowingly with HIV. 1746 01:16:58,667 --> 01:17:01,208 Whether or not what he says is true, 1747 01:17:01,291 --> 01:17:04,542 the amount of selfishness could only come from a person 1748 01:17:04,625 --> 01:17:07,583 who just has no humanity. 1749 01:17:07,667 --> 01:17:11,583 And I'd never had a word 1750 01:17:11,667 --> 01:17:13,667 said to me from him, 1751 01:17:13,750 --> 01:17:16,583 certainly not "I'm sorry this happened." 1752 01:17:16,667 --> 01:17:20,208 Um...nothing. Not a single word. 1753 01:17:20,291 --> 01:17:23,875 That-that--that's an indication of guilt to me 1754 01:17:23,959 --> 01:17:26,083 in not taking responsibility for something because 1755 01:17:26,166 --> 01:17:28,792 to not have that sense of remorse 1756 01:17:28,875 --> 01:17:31,875 except to feel "Woe is me," um... "Poor me. 1757 01:17:31,959 --> 01:17:34,500 Fuck...my fucking life, you know? 1758 01:17:34,583 --> 01:17:38,291 Fuck these..." It's just, it just shows a... 1759 01:17:38,375 --> 01:17:39,500 a lack of humanity and... 1760 01:17:39,583 --> 01:17:41,500 Just think about being a victim 1761 01:17:41,583 --> 01:17:42,959 and never being apologized to. 1762 01:17:43,041 --> 01:17:44,750 Just to live with the fact that this guy 1763 01:17:44,834 --> 01:17:46,750 fuckin' infected them with HIV 1764 01:17:46,834 --> 01:17:49,250 and he never fuckin' said I'm sorry. 1765 01:17:49,333 --> 01:17:50,583 Look at the fuckin' health issues I got now, 1766 01:17:50,667 --> 01:17:52,875 look at the meds I have to take. 1767 01:17:52,959 --> 01:17:54,667 You don't think these people are thinkin' about that? 1768 01:17:54,750 --> 01:17:57,208 Believe me, every fuckin' day of their lives. 1769 01:17:57,291 --> 01:18:01,083 I honestly believe Marc never conscientiously worked 1770 01:18:01,166 --> 01:18:03,166 knowing that he was HIV positive. 1771 01:18:03,250 --> 01:18:04,208 [man] And that's just a gut feeling? 1772 01:18:04,291 --> 01:18:05,208 It's a gut feeling 1773 01:18:05,291 --> 01:18:06,375 that if Marc had realized 1774 01:18:06,458 --> 01:18:07,583 he was HIV positive, 1775 01:18:07,667 --> 01:18:09,583 realized that his life was over, 1776 01:18:09,667 --> 01:18:11,333 he would've ended his life. 1777 01:18:11,417 --> 01:18:13,458 I think Marc woulda killed himself. 1778 01:18:13,542 --> 01:18:15,875 I can't deal with this anymore. 1779 01:18:15,959 --> 01:18:18,542 I need to get out, and I have something. 1780 01:18:18,625 --> 01:18:21,959 I absolutely believe that 1781 01:18:22,041 --> 01:18:25,834 Marc Wallice is responsible for my HIV infection. 1782 01:18:25,917 --> 01:18:27,917 [instrumental music] 1783 01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:35,083 [woman] When you came in, was there 1784 01:18:35,166 --> 01:18:36,333 something unexpected that, 1785 01:18:36,417 --> 01:18:38,375 like, surprised you? 1786 01:18:38,458 --> 01:18:41,709 Um, I was real surprised at how much I liked everybody. 1787 01:18:41,792 --> 01:18:43,250 I mean, I wanted to sorta hang back 1788 01:18:43,333 --> 01:18:45,208 and just treat this as a business and that's it. 1789 01:18:45,291 --> 01:18:47,500 But I liked everybody, so I moved out here, 1790 01:18:47,583 --> 01:18:50,583 and I never wanted to do that, but I did. 1791 01:18:50,667 --> 01:18:53,125 He absolutely deserves every bit of karma 1792 01:18:53,208 --> 01:18:54,959 that will come to him someday. 1793 01:18:55,041 --> 01:18:57,750 [instrumental music] 1794 01:18:57,834 --> 01:18:59,041 [man] Do you think that he knew 1795 01:18:59,125 --> 01:19:01,875 he was HIV positive? 1796 01:19:01,959 --> 01:19:03,417 [Tricia] I do think that, most likely, 1797 01:19:03,500 --> 01:19:05,667 he knew. 1798 01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:06,500 [man] So you think that he was 1799 01:19:06,583 --> 01:19:08,250 intentionally infecting women? 1800 01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:12,959 I don't know. I don't know. 1801 01:19:16,333 --> 01:19:18,667 I know that he was in denial for sure. 1802 01:19:18,750 --> 01:19:20,834 In one way or another, in denial 1803 01:19:20,917 --> 01:19:22,792 that he wouldn't get caught, or in denial 1804 01:19:22,875 --> 01:19:25,709 that I can't possibly be the person. 1805 01:19:25,792 --> 01:19:28,208 But like I've said a few times, 1806 01:19:28,291 --> 01:19:30,375 I know that there are at least three girls 1807 01:19:30,458 --> 01:19:31,875 that would not have HIV today 1808 01:19:31,959 --> 01:19:34,375 if he had not been in denial about something. 1809 01:19:34,458 --> 01:19:36,458 [instrumental music] 1810 01:19:39,500 --> 01:19:43,583 I-if it's true that he really didn't know and this happened, 1811 01:19:43,667 --> 01:19:45,709 he would be devastated, 1812 01:19:45,792 --> 01:19:48,041 and not for his own personal misfortune, 1813 01:19:48,125 --> 01:19:49,750 but for theirs. And to me 1814 01:19:49,834 --> 01:19:52,333 that's the greatest indication of guilt, 1815 01:19:52,417 --> 01:19:55,709 because it's your behavior post blow up 1816 01:19:55,792 --> 01:19:59,208 that shows who you are and, and what you did. 1817 01:20:01,250 --> 01:20:02,667 [Mark Kernes] Is there definitive proof that 1818 01:20:02,750 --> 01:20:05,041 Marc Wallice was HIV positive 1819 01:20:05,125 --> 01:20:08,875 and faked his test in order to conceal that? 1820 01:20:08,959 --> 01:20:10,458 I don't know for sure, 1821 01:20:10,542 --> 01:20:11,875 but it certainly seems likely 1822 01:20:11,959 --> 01:20:13,667 considering, you know, 1823 01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:16,542 the entire concatenation of events 1824 01:20:16,625 --> 01:20:19,500 that took place around that time. 1825 01:20:19,583 --> 01:20:21,458 You gotta understand there's a, there's a tremendous 1826 01:20:21,542 --> 01:20:23,333 emotional quotient here. 1827 01:20:23,417 --> 01:20:26,542 A tremendous emotional quotient. 1828 01:20:26,625 --> 01:20:28,458 And it has to do with shame, 1829 01:20:28,542 --> 01:20:30,542 and shame is something that's a reality 1830 01:20:30,625 --> 01:20:33,000 within all of us to a degree 1831 01:20:33,083 --> 01:20:35,291 in the adult entertainment industry. 1832 01:20:35,375 --> 01:20:37,792 Could I have done better? Could I have been a real actor? 1833 01:20:37,875 --> 01:20:38,917 Could I have been different? 1834 01:20:39,041 --> 01:20:41,041 Shit, I did a few gay movies 1835 01:20:41,125 --> 01:20:44,291 to pay the rent? Do I have to hide anything? 1836 01:20:44,375 --> 01:20:48,834 Oh, my God. Fuck. I've got HIV. 1837 01:20:48,917 --> 01:20:53,166 I can't, I can't let this out. I can't. 1838 01:20:53,250 --> 01:20:56,291 They'll blame me, they'll hoist me on a petard. 1839 01:20:56,375 --> 01:20:58,834 I'm going to be the "Frankenstein" monster. 1840 01:20:58,917 --> 01:21:01,250 We have to remember where my friend Marc was at. 1841 01:21:01,333 --> 01:21:03,333 He was at a fuckin' dark, scary place. 1842 01:21:03,417 --> 01:21:04,917 And he knew it. 1843 01:21:05,875 --> 01:21:06,875 Um... 1844 01:21:09,166 --> 01:21:12,417 Ah, once you're called patient zero in HIV 1845 01:21:12,500 --> 01:21:15,709 outbreak in the heterosexual porn industry, 1846 01:21:15,792 --> 01:21:17,959 I mean, sure, you can fight it, 1847 01:21:18,041 --> 01:21:20,750 but, I mean, you know, you're fucked. 1848 01:21:20,834 --> 01:21:22,250 [scoffs] You're fucked. 1849 01:21:25,125 --> 01:21:26,250 [man] Where would you be today 1850 01:21:26,333 --> 01:21:27,458 if you had never contracted 1851 01:21:27,542 --> 01:21:29,000 the HIV virus? 1852 01:21:31,458 --> 01:21:33,750 I would've been... 1853 01:21:33,834 --> 01:21:36,667 [scoffs] I'd have been doin' really well. 1854 01:21:36,750 --> 01:21:39,750 I would probably have 1855 01:21:39,834 --> 01:21:43,834 if not a million, a couple million in the bank. 1856 01:21:43,917 --> 01:21:46,250 I'd be running my own company, 1857 01:21:46,333 --> 01:21:48,208 like a lot of my peers 1858 01:21:48,291 --> 01:21:50,041 are right now. 1859 01:21:50,125 --> 01:21:53,125 And instead, I'm living in a trailer park, 1860 01:21:54,041 --> 01:21:57,500 on disability and... 1861 01:21:57,583 --> 01:22:01,250 by the 25th of the month, I don't have a penny left. 1862 01:22:03,792 --> 01:22:04,667 [Herschel Savage] You know, in reality, 1863 01:22:04,750 --> 01:22:06,750 if somebody does something 1864 01:22:06,834 --> 01:22:08,375 so fucked up to other people, 1865 01:22:08,458 --> 01:22:12,375 and they have to live out their whole life, 1866 01:22:12,458 --> 01:22:15,667 maybe a worse sentence than death. 1867 01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:18,500 But did Marc know he was sick? That's the question. 1868 01:22:18,583 --> 01:22:20,875 [instrumental music] 1869 01:22:20,959 --> 01:22:22,500 [Bill Margold] People who get sick, get sick, 1870 01:22:22,583 --> 01:22:25,041 and there's a defense for all of that. 1871 01:22:25,125 --> 01:22:27,166 And if you get sick, and you're not even knowing 1872 01:22:27,250 --> 01:22:29,250 what's going on, how can you be blamed? 1873 01:22:29,333 --> 01:22:30,583 And I think that the adult entertainment industry 1874 01:22:30,667 --> 01:22:32,125 was running out of people to blame 1875 01:22:32,208 --> 01:22:33,834 for all the problems we were having. 1876 01:22:33,917 --> 01:22:35,750 We didn't know how exactly to cope with it 1877 01:22:35,834 --> 01:22:39,500 and Marc was easily a scapegoat for it 1878 01:22:39,583 --> 01:22:43,500 because Marc was fragile and Marc couldn't fight back. 1879 01:22:43,583 --> 01:22:45,291 The industry had every incentive to say 1880 01:22:45,375 --> 01:22:46,834 there was one rogue performer 1881 01:22:46,917 --> 01:22:49,250 and one bad guy 1882 01:22:49,333 --> 01:22:51,500 and he was responsible for what happened here 1883 01:22:51,583 --> 01:22:53,625 because they knew that this was the type of thing 1884 01:22:53,709 --> 01:22:56,291 that could blow up and shut down their honeypot. 1885 01:22:56,375 --> 01:22:58,500 [man] Regulation may be needed 1886 01:22:58,583 --> 01:23:01,083 in the industry to make sure that people are safe. 1887 01:23:01,166 --> 01:23:02,542 We've got this thing under control, 1888 01:23:02,625 --> 01:23:04,333 we don't need more government intervention, 1889 01:23:04,417 --> 01:23:06,709 we don't need more government regulation, 1890 01:23:06,792 --> 01:23:09,125 we don't need more scrutiny from the mainstream media, 1891 01:23:09,208 --> 01:23:10,709 we don't need any bad news. 1892 01:23:10,792 --> 01:23:12,792 This is just one rotten apple. 1893 01:23:12,875 --> 01:23:15,208 It was such an un-unforgettable year, 1894 01:23:15,291 --> 01:23:17,792 both tragic and exhilarating. 1895 01:23:17,875 --> 01:23:20,208 E-everybody was looking for a source to blame, 1896 01:23:20,291 --> 01:23:22,458 so we could close the book on it. 1897 01:23:22,542 --> 01:23:24,083 [Jim South] Do I feel that the industry 1898 01:23:24,166 --> 01:23:26,417 threw him under the bus? 1899 01:23:26,500 --> 01:23:30,792 Absolutely, and stepped on the, the accelerator. 1900 01:23:30,875 --> 01:23:34,041 They hung this dude out to dry, man. 1901 01:23:34,125 --> 01:23:35,792 [man] Today's adult industry 1902 01:23:35,875 --> 01:23:37,208 is still hypersensitive 1903 01:23:37,291 --> 01:23:39,500 about what it perceives as fascist attacks 1904 01:23:39,583 --> 01:23:41,625 on its first amendment freedoms. 1905 01:23:41,709 --> 01:23:43,834 [instrumental music] 1906 01:23:43,917 --> 01:23:46,291 Our nation is in desperate need for healing 1907 01:23:46,375 --> 01:23:48,458 and repentance from sexual sin. 1908 01:23:48,542 --> 01:23:51,792 Animals have more protection in the making of films 1909 01:23:51,875 --> 01:23:53,834 than porn performers. 1910 01:23:53,917 --> 01:23:55,166 [man] Porn is now a hard-lobbying 1911 01:23:55,250 --> 01:23:56,375 political force 1912 01:23:56,458 --> 01:23:59,417 no less than GM or RJR Nabisco. 1913 01:23:59,500 --> 01:24:01,208 [indistinct shouting] 1914 01:24:03,208 --> 01:24:05,917 The industry was coming under a lot of scrutiny 1915 01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:10,333 for this going on and they needed to get it over with. 1916 01:24:10,417 --> 01:24:13,000 And if they could say, "Hey, we found the guy who did it, 1917 01:24:13,083 --> 01:24:14,917 he's no longer performing, 1918 01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:17,000 we're all good to go now, 1919 01:24:17,083 --> 01:24:19,208 everything is safe again." 1920 01:24:19,291 --> 01:24:21,959 That's what the industry needed to do and... 1921 01:24:22,041 --> 01:24:24,041 without really looking into, 1922 01:24:24,125 --> 01:24:27,208 without really asking the right questions, 1923 01:24:27,291 --> 01:24:30,667 they weren't able to clear Marc Wallice, 1924 01:24:30,750 --> 01:24:33,625 therefore they found him guilty. 1925 01:24:36,583 --> 01:24:39,667 He could be completely innocent, 1926 01:24:39,750 --> 01:24:42,417 or he could not be. 1927 01:24:42,500 --> 01:24:44,667 Nobody knows but him. I... 1928 01:24:44,750 --> 01:24:46,333 That's the bottom-line. 1929 01:24:48,458 --> 01:24:50,417 [Mark Cromer] Whether or not Marc Wallice 1930 01:24:50,500 --> 01:24:53,375 intentionally thought he was exposing 1931 01:24:53,458 --> 01:24:55,542 any of the girls that he's accused of, 1932 01:24:55,625 --> 01:24:58,875 I, I'm not convinced of that. 1933 01:24:58,959 --> 01:25:00,792 I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, 1934 01:25:00,875 --> 01:25:04,291 I think the truth is a lot closer to 1935 01:25:04,375 --> 01:25:07,333 he had his own sets of worries, his concerns 1936 01:25:07,417 --> 01:25:10,750 and my sense of it is, he probably didn't know 1937 01:25:10,834 --> 01:25:14,166 that he was infected with HIV, 1938 01:25:14,250 --> 01:25:16,333 but he kinda didn't want to know for sure 1939 01:25:16,417 --> 01:25:20,792 until he could no longer get out of taking additional tests, 1940 01:25:20,875 --> 01:25:24,834 and, and then it-it hit him like a-a ton of bricks. 1941 01:25:24,917 --> 01:25:27,250 [instrumental music] 1942 01:25:27,333 --> 01:25:29,542 There you are. I found ya. 1943 01:25:31,250 --> 01:25:32,875 I'm not saying his actions weren't reckless. 1944 01:25:32,959 --> 01:25:34,375 We'll, we'll never know. 1945 01:25:34,458 --> 01:25:37,250 No one can tell you except Marc Wallice, 1946 01:25:37,333 --> 01:25:40,041 what he knew, and when he knew it, 1947 01:25:40,125 --> 01:25:41,959 and he has to live with that, 1948 01:25:42,041 --> 01:25:45,500 and, um, hopefully he can. 1949 01:26:17,667 --> 01:26:19,375 [instrumental music] 1950 01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,000 ♪ Well she's on the dance floor ♪ 1951 01:26:39,083 --> 01:26:41,458 ♪ At your local juke ♪ 1952 01:26:41,542 --> 01:26:43,917 ♪ Tryin' to sweat a bunch of fools ♪ 1953 01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,250 ♪ She done already took ♪ 1954 01:26:46,333 --> 01:26:48,792 ♪ But when that gal gets down ♪ 1955 01:26:48,875 --> 01:26:51,375 ♪ You can't help but stare ♪ 1956 01:26:51,458 --> 01:26:53,917 ♪ 'Cause that frame's lit smokin' ♪ 1957 01:26:54,041 --> 01:26:55,792 ♪ Like a signal flare ♪ 1958 01:26:55,875 --> 01:26:57,750 ♪ She's on fire ♪ 1959 01:26:59,208 --> 01:27:03,917 ♪ Ooh she's on fire ♪ 1960 01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:05,834 ♪ Lord that girl is smokin' ♪ 1961 01:27:05,917 --> 01:27:08,959 ♪ On fire ♪ 1962 01:27:09,041 --> 01:27:12,417 ♪ Light 'em on up she's on fire ♪ 1963 01:27:16,083 --> 01:27:20,250 ♪ We tried to look away we all tried to be cool ♪ 1964 01:27:20,333 --> 01:27:22,125 ♪ But she had an ass ♪ 1965 01:27:22,208 --> 01:27:25,542 ♪ As thick as an army mule's ♪ 1966 01:27:25,625 --> 01:27:30,041 ♪ She asked out for a drink just a battin' those eyes ♪ 1967 01:27:30,125 --> 01:27:33,417 ♪ We all was reaching for our wallets ♪ 1968 01:27:33,500 --> 01:27:36,500 ♪ Man she's a light she's on fire ♪ 1969 01:27:39,166 --> 01:27:43,125 ♪ Ooh she's on fire ♪ 1970 01:27:43,208 --> 01:27:47,834 ♪ Oh that girl is smokin' on fire ♪ 1971 01:27:47,917 --> 01:27:52,250 ♪ Light 'em on up she's on fire ♪ 1972 01:27:52,333 --> 01:27:55,000 ♪ That girl is on fire ♪ 1973 01:27:55,083 --> 01:27:57,041 [instrumental music] 1974 01:28:25,083 --> 01:28:27,041 ♪♪♪ 1975 01:28:33,542 --> 01:28:36,375 ♪ With a smooth proposition ♪ 1976 01:28:36,458 --> 01:28:38,500 ♪ She's got you in hand ♪ 1977 01:28:38,583 --> 01:28:41,583 ♪ I hear you say you don't care boy ♪ 1978 01:28:41,667 --> 01:28:44,709 ♪ Are you a man she's on fire ♪ 1979 01:28:47,208 --> 01:28:49,834 ♪ Ooh she's on fire ♪ 1980 01:28:51,792 --> 01:28:56,458 ♪ Ooh she's on fire ♪ 1981 01:28:56,542 --> 01:28:59,625 ♪ Ooh she's on fire ♪ 1982 01:29:01,166 --> 01:29:05,166 ♪ Ooh help me she's on fire ♪ 1983 01:29:05,250 --> 01:29:06,208 ♪ She's on fire ♪ 1984 01:29:06,291 --> 01:29:08,333 ♪ Ooh she's on ♪ 1985 01:29:08,417 --> 01:29:09,959 ♪ Fire ♪ 1986 01:29:10,041 --> 01:29:11,333 ♪ She's on fire ♪ 1987 01:29:11,417 --> 01:29:14,750 ♪ That little hussy's on fire ♪ 1988 01:29:14,834 --> 01:29:17,250 ♪ She's on fire ♪ 1989 01:29:17,333 --> 01:29:19,959 ♪ She's on fire ♪ 1990 01:29:20,041 --> 01:29:21,583 ♪ She's on fire ♪ 1991 01:29:24,917 --> 01:29:27,917 [indistinct chatter] 1992 01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:29,792 [instrumental music] 1993 01:29:29,875 --> 01:29:31,625 [laughing] 1994 01:29:41,291 --> 01:29:43,291 [laughing continues] 1995 01:29:46,041 --> 01:29:47,792 [indistinct chatter] 1996 01:29:57,917 --> 01:29:59,667 ♪♪♪ 1997 01:30:20,959 --> 01:30:22,625 [laughing continues] 1998 01:30:36,333 --> 01:30:37,250 [woman] Did I mention we don't take up 1999 01:30:37,333 --> 01:30:38,333 much space on the road? 2000 01:30:38,417 --> 01:30:40,542 [laughing continues] 2001 01:30:40,625 --> 01:30:42,375 [woman] Yeah, did you mention that? 2002 01:30:44,291 --> 01:30:46,041 [instrumental music] 2003 01:31:13,959 --> 01:31:16,000 ♪♪♪ 2004 01:31:43,959 --> 01:31:46,041 ♪♪♪ 2005 01:32:14,041 --> 01:32:16,041 ♪♪♪