[crowd chants faintly]
[birds chirping]
-[woman] Right, you come lay down. -[child] Mm...
[children mumble]
[woman] There's some stuff to go in random boxes
underneath the cupboards.
[children yelling and laughing]
Moving's been a bit stressful.
Sometimes I look at the Instagrams of wives
and footballers in the Premier League and think,
"I wish I had their life."
[chuckles] And someone will say to me, "But you've got their life."
Well, it's very, very different.
Very different.
Like any career, any... player in the game,
there's been ups and downs.
There's been more downs than ups really, hasn't there?
But this is the highlight of my career at the minute,
a player for... for Sunderland.
[wife] It's an adventure, isn't it, Alfie?
That's what we always say, that we're on a new adventure.
It was limbo-land all summer, wasn't it?
-[kids murmur] -We didn't know if we'd be staying,
didn't know if we'd be going. And there was a bit of interest
from here and there.
We would have been going through a couple of months,
maybe, if Jack didn't sign a contract straightaway,
where we had no money or wages, and not knowing where we was gonna end up.
Unfortunately, when everything's happened, we still have bills to pay, so...
-[murmuring continues] -It would've been...
It would've been a lot harder.
[laughs] And then I started to think, "We've got two kids and what if?"
I think that's where a lot of stress is in football.
You just don't know what's gonna happen next.
-["Shipyards" by The Lake Poets plays] -♪ On the river ♪
♪ Where they used to build the boats ♪
♪ By the harbor wall The place you loved the most ♪
♪ I can see you there alone ♪
♪ But, oh, you know ♪
♪ I'll be there ♪
♪ Soon ♪
♪ All your life You worked your fingers to the bone ♪
♪ You worked hard For every little thing you owned ♪
♪ That you gave away for years ♪
♪ As if you'd known ♪
[trains rumbling]
♪ They were calling out ♪
♪ But if you could see me now ♪
♪ And if you could see me now ♪
♪ I hope that I'm making you proud ♪
♪ Proud ♪
[crowd chanting]
[crowd] ♪ And it's Sunderland ♪
♪ Sunderland AFC ♪
-♪ We're by far the greatest team ♪ -[Jack yells indistinctly]
♪ The world has ever seen ♪
[players yell indistinctly]
[crowd shouting]
♪ Sunderland AFC ♪
♪ We're by far the greatest team... ♪
[crowd roars]
[commentator 1] Maja in the bottom corner!
-[crowd cheering] -And that deceptive finish
from Josh Maja...
[commentator 2] That's his trademark, isn't it?
[commentator 1] Absolutely right.
I mean, all his goals are these deceptive finishes.
Just gets to his feet, quick turn,
and before you know it, it's in the bottom corner.
[whistle blows]
[commentator 1] As we're coming into the start of the season,
there has been significant progress,
re-energizing the supporters and getting them back
-to the football club. -[crowd chanting]
[man] I mean, it looks like the team spirit
-is alive and well. -[ball clanks]
-[men ooh] -Good save.
[man] It's mint.
It's great to see that team spirit in there.
[Barnes announcing] Corner from the right-hand side for Sunderland,
at the Rainham End.
-[crowd shouts] -It's whipped in. And... goal!
-[crowd cheers] -It's in!
It's been bundled in!
It's dropped down for Maguire
and he's forced it home.
-[crowd cheers] -[woman] It's a long time
since we've been like this, like happy and smiling.
And all these young players that's come in,
they love to be, they want to be here.
They love Sunderland Football Club.
[Barnes] Cook now, Eaves in the middle. Cook still going, he taps it to Hanlan,
-Hanlan's shot blocked by Baldwin. -[commentator 2] Fantastic block.
[Barnes] Maguire to Power, back to Maguire.
Down the left of the penalty area. Now the ball played in low,
but it's cleared to Maja... Maja!
-[commentator 2] Yeah! -[Barnes] Goal!
-[crowd cheers] -[commentator 2] We needed that one.
[George] It's been the gaffer, it's been his staff.
From day one, he came in and we knew our ambition was to win the league.
When he puts that stamp down, you think,
"Come on, we've got a good enough squad,
this is what we're about, this is what we're gonna strive to achieve."
[Barnes] Into the penalty area, here's the cross!
Cattermole trying to get it... [screaming] He has!
-Cattermole's equalized. -[commentator 2] It's Cattermole as well.
[Jack] This is an opportunity for me
to try and put my stamp on something.
Also a chance to really build something... [stammers] ...that can be really powerful.
[Barnes] Maguire trying to get this on his right to cross in.
Maja's let it drop and... [shouts] Cattermole!
[crowd roars]
It's Lee Cattermole!
-[commentator 2] Goal! -[Barnes] It's a brace from Cattermole.
-[commentator 2] What a finish. -[Barnes] Sunderland lead 2-1.
-Come on! -[crowd applauds]
[players yelling indistinctly]
-[fans murmur] -[indistinct chatter over intercom]
Grind it out, we'll take it. 2-1. Get in! Come on!
[fans murmur]
-[fans clapping] -[man] See you later, Sunderland.
-Cheers, Josh. -[man 2] Josh!
[fans murmuring and laughing]
[man 3] I hope them GCSEs went well.
-Did they go well? -Yeah, they did.
-[man 3] Smash it? -Nine. Nine of them.
-[man 3] Nine? Get in. -[man 4] Well done, son.
[Charlie] The players and I and the staff have been down here all week.
Gillingham and Wimbledon away.
And if you look at that at the start of the season, you say,
three points out of those two games is a decent result.
Four points, chuffed to bits. Six points...
Thank you very much. Stick it in the back pocket,
off we go back up north.
[birds cawing]
[Stewart] Yes, we're doing well.
But to get the club level and on an even keel,
we have got to go through
every single line of expenditure
and understand it.
Now, this budget...
-is their final, final version... -[Richard] Yeah.
...of next year.
[Richard] So, Neil, I'll just forward this to you.
This is the copy that Brett has actually signed. Fine?
[Neil] Yeah, send it to me, Richard.
-[Stewart chuckles] -[Neil] Okay.
Okay, so the figures changed again.
[mellow music playing]
[Stewart] It is the biggest mess of a business that-- that I've ever seen.
Last year, the football wage bill was 34 million, I think.
The non-playing wage bill is 12 million.
The income in the football club is projected to be 15.6 million.
That's what we inherited
for League One.
So unless we deal with that fundamental...
£35 million difference,
the football club cannot sustain itself.
[Neil] I mean, we've just saved
over 60,000 on pitch maintenance costs at the academy and the stadium.
[Stewart] So on the footballing side of things,
the travel and accommodation
for the first team has gone from £424,000
to 109,000.
And the sports therapy costs are 666,000
-down to 297. -[Neil] Yeah.
-And if we can lose the cryo chamber... -[Neil] Yeah.
[Stewart] They invested, whatever it was, £100,000-plus
on a cryo chamber... um, for recovery.
So I speak to the head of medical,
"Do you use it?"
"No."
"Who uses it?"
Uh... And they said, "Well, Martin Bain goes in there for his back occasionally,"
was-- was the answer that came back. I said, "Yeah, but what players use it?"
"Oh, no one uses it."
Um, and there are hundreds and hundreds of examples, just spending money
without asking a single question
as to why they're spending it.
You know, we are Sunderland Football Club
and we've got to work hard in every area
because our fans...
um... you know, I don't think it'd be controversial to say,
our fans don't come from the most affluent area in the country.
They work hard for their money,
like everybody does.
But this is their money going into the football club,
it's not just Ellis's or mine or anybody else's.
This is their money.
They trust us,
or want to trust us to spend that money...
um, correctly.
[cars rush past in the distance]
[mellow music fades]
[fans chatter indistinctly]
[Charlie] I think the people of Sunderland and the region, the fan base,
have given Stewart and I the benefit of the doubt,
but I think it's on a pretty short lease.
I think that if we don't get things right,
reasonably quickly, that benefit of the doubt
will be withdrawn and be replaced by...
very heavy scrutiny and a lot of pressure.
[chatter continues]
This is the most intense crowd in the whole country,
the whole of England, the most intense crowd.
[mellow music resumes]
It's terrifying, there's no other way to describe it.
[mellow music fades]
[emcee] First question, then.
[supporter 1] What's your long-term plans? Are yous in it?
Or are you trying to build it up to sell?
What's your honest long-term plans,
you and Stewart?
[Charlie] In an ideal world, we'd be here for quite a while
because we both adore football and we also both know
that we will never again run a football club as big as this.
A lot of fans don't realize how bad financially the situation had got to.
The place was an absolute shit show.
The staff didn't understand that,
had no conception of it,
which was really disturbing.
Um...
You know, up to and including the finance department,
just didn't know where the money was-- 'cause the entire culture was,
at the end of every month, what we do is we send a bill
to a rich man in Florida
and he signs a check, and that's it.
We came here and we found
deal after deal after deal after deal where Sunderland
had been absolutely shafted.
And as football fans, it made us quite angry.
Our view is, really strong organizations
and healthy and proud organizations can...
[stammers] ...run well, end up funding themselves.
And there's a moral point to it, which is,
if it's run out of its own revenues, those revenues are your revenues.
They're the fans' revenues.
And that makes it the fans' club.
Once it's being funded by a rich man, it's not your club, it's his club.
And if you're worried about being irrelevant,
you become irrelevant at that point.
When you're a club as big as Sunderland...
[mellow music resumes]
...with the potential that Sunderland has, with the history that Sunderland has,
it's up to us
to put in place the structures, the philosophy, the mechanisms
that drives the revenues up
and means we're actually-- properly sustainable.
And then you'll be able to look at us and just say,
"It's our club, we pay for it.
You guys administer it, but it's our club."
That's where we want to get to.
[supporter 2] I think he gets it.
I know he's from Oxfordshire, but he comes across
as if he actually gets the North East.
I know we're not the most cosmopolitan, people are colder up here,
but he seems to be getting what Sunderland's all about.
I was really surprised actually, pleasantly surprised to see
how honest, how open he was.
Um... I feel really encouraged.
Really bad experience with the last owner, but I think this time round,
it's very early days and ultimately judged on results,
but very positive from what I've heard so far tonight.
People think, "Have they got the money to do it?
Are they a couple of wide boys trying to make a quick buck?"
No, he's passionate about the club, he's delivering what he says he will.
Sunderland fans are desperate for that, for that success,
they're desperate for anything to hold onto,
to take the club forward.
We've had years and years, since Niall Quinn left, of absolute shite.
So, we want something to hold on to.
[crowd applauds]
[mellow music fades]
[birds chirping]
-[Stewart murmurs] -[ball thuds]
Like a McGeady free-kick.
[Stewart] When I was younger, I loved playing football.
Got an odd mom and dad, um, I was six years old
and they enrolled me in the local under-nine team.
I absolutely loved it. From then, I played football...
every week.
-[ball thuds] -Ooh...
[Stewart laughs]
Did I want to be a professional footballer? Did I want to--
Everybody wants to be a professional footballer.
I was never going to be a professional footballer.
[laughs]
[crowd buzzes]
Dad was a massive Oxford United fan.
[announcer chatters indistinctly]
Oxford United were in the top flight.
It was fun to go. You know, we took a couple of thousand fans everywhere.
-[announcer chatters indistinctly] -[crowd cheers]
I loved that as a kid.
Then I went onto the terraces.
Like everybody else, you'd stand, you'd have the...
smell of cigarettes, the burgers,
the Tuesday night games.
-[announcer] That's it! -[crowd roars]
Oxford United have done it.
[cheering continues]
[Stewart] But...
Oxford United became like...
every other football club that I saw.
It all became about the finances
and it just lost
that feeling that you had in the '80s and the '90s.
-[ball thuds] -[man groans] Ooh...
[Stewart] So getting involved in Sunderland
gave me a chance to run a football club
in what I perceived was an old-fashioned way,
whereby everyone would feel that they own their football club again.
And I want to enjoy the ride all the way through.
And I want to do it right for me and for... for everybody else.
Um... And I think this is my one shot to have a club like Sunderland.
[dramatic music playing]
-[ball thuds] -[players scream]
Come on, lads! Let's go!
[Jack] The reality is, for Sunderland, with its infrastructure, its fan base,
everything that goes around it,
it shouldn't be in League One, but it is.
That's something I've stressed from day one,
is there's no point in having delusions of grandeur
about where the club should be.
You have to deal with the here and now, and the here and now
is we're in League One,
in a league that is not easy to get out of.
[players chatter]
[ball thuds, clanks against post]
[Josh] There's been a lot of changes in the club.
There's obviously been new owners,
new gaffer, so everything is different.
There's a more happy feeling
in the squad.
[players murmur and laugh]
That's the energy you want
when you're trying to push for promotion as well.
[players chatter indistinctly]
[Jack] The hardest part of being a young footballer
is getting that transition from being a really good academy player
to being a consistently good first-team player.
Working with younger players, trying to bring them through...
And the circumstances the club now finds itself in,
there's a bigger onus on me to do that.
[players yelling indistinctly]
[Josh] Jack Ross was... Even the first day I came back for preseason,
we had a chat and he spoke about what I want to do
and obviously the ambitions for this season.
[Jack murmurs]
For me, it was just a confidence boost because it showed that,
yeah, he's gonna... he's gonna stick with me
and show confidence in me, and that's what he's done.
[mellow music playing]
[Stewart] With the contract negotiations, the club are working hard now
to tie the youngsters down.
And because of the league we're in, and they're young men,
it is possible that they could get their head turned.
Dealing with agents is the worst part of football.
But... they're our players.
I'm not signing their agents,
I'm signing the players.
[Stewart] Right...
Next job... the young players.
I've got Gooch, Hume,
Kimpioka, Mumba,
Stryjek, and Embleton.
Mumba's done.
[players murmur]
[Neil] Yeah.
Bali's done. As we know, he's signed his contract last week.
-Yeah. -That's all gone out.
[Stewart] Uh, Josh... Josh Maja.
[Richard] The initial offer we made Josh, we've then increased it...
considerably.
[Stewart] Where are we with it though?
[Richard] Well, the last time I spoke with Josh with the new offer,
uh, he just said, "You need to speak to my agent."
I've spoke to his agent, I've told him this is it, full and final,
he's had it emailed. "I'll come back to you."
Still hasn't come back to me.
Is he talking to his mom and dad about it?
[Richard] Yeah, he spoke to his parents. He told me he's spoke to his parents.
[Stewart] The only thing that's an issue for the club is of course,
these lads have been with us in Premier League days,
listening to what players earned
-at the time. -[players ooh]
Of course, it's difficult, in some ways, for them to detach themselves
from the numbers they heard to now recognizing
the club are a League One team.
You know, they're not negotiating contracts
with a Premier League team.
-[ball thudding] -[players murmur]
They're all saying they love it here, they love working with Jack,
we've just got to get the numbers sensible.
Um... Josh has had a cracking offer.
-[Richard] Uh... -He-- He'll sign that.
We're hearing all sorts, but, I mean, Tottenham have been to watch him...
six, seven, eight, nine times.
-[Neil] There's interest in him elsewhere. -I was told...
Were you told Portsmouth were interested in him?
[crowd buzzes]
[crowd cheers]
[Barnes] Honeyman. Coyle going with him. Honeyman's cross first time.
Maja gets his foot on it...
-[commentator 2] Get in! -...and it's in!
[crowd cheers]
Maja, beyond the goalkeeper, equalizes for Sunderland.
[cheering continues]
Slides on his knees, and that's a lovely touch from Maja.
Honeyman, lays it off again
to McGeouch to try and get up to Maja.
Controls it, swings in the cross.
-He's got to score. -[Barnes] Maja's header!
-[crowd cheering] -What a goal.
Sweetly taken.
[fans yelling]
Inside the penalty area. Maja, onto his left...
-[commentator 2] Yes. -[Barnes] Scored again!
[crowd roars]
[man] I think, first and foremost, he's a fantastic young player.
He's working his way up to being a legend already.
If he could secure enough goals to help them get promotion
back to the Championship, he'd be held in high esteem
for a long, long time.
So he's... he's massive for them.
[techno music plays]
[crowd shouting]
[crowd cheers]
-[techno music fades] -[podcast host 1] I like his arrogance.
His confidence is just like, radiating off him.
[indistinct intercom chatter]
[EFL host] It was Josh Maja that scored the winner,
a young player that's having a tremendous season, isn't he, George?
Yeah, it's interesting.
Some of the data guys said if he was to continue
his current finishing rate, he'd be the best finisher ever.
He's fearless and he's young,
he's raw, and he just looks like the real deal.
[techno music resumes]
[Jack] He's a very polite, humble young man who...
has built a good relationship
with me and my staff in a short period of time.
I know that Josh will be a player with me till minimum January.
I think he trusts that he will get better here,
under our management, which I hope will encourage him to sign.
[techno music fades]
[host] Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Roker Report podcast.
We are joined today by Stewart Donald.
Let's jump to contracts and agents
and transfers,
-which is all the juicy stuff... -Lovely. [laughs]
...that I'm sure everyone's listening to this for.
So we'll start with Josh Maja so everyone knows contract offers.
[Stewart] If I'm honest, the...
the contracts that we've inherited for them are... ridiculous,
from the football club's perspective.
When these lads come into our academy, they're signing two or three-year deals.
So common sense tells you that,
in the last year of his contract, he's got a chance of breaking through.
So, surely when we negotiate the contracts in the first place,
we should protect ourselves by putting extensions in that say,
"If Josh makes some five first-team games,
then we automatically get an extra year on his contract."
What we've done is put it completely the wrong way round
so that, actually,
Josh gets in the first team, in earnest,
playing week in, week out,
and their agents then see a value to them.
So we're now forced to negotiate... with the agent thinking,
"I can make more money if he moves away than he can at Sunderland,
so as an agent, I'm gonna try and make more money by getting him a move."
-[mellow music playing] -[birds chirping]
[mellow music fades]
[Luke] Talking about contracts,
you have hundreds of people
telling you what to do and what not to do.
[grunts]
Footballers, non-footballers,
your parents, your friends,
people you've never met before.
They all give you their opinion, even if you don't ask for it.
You know, with Maj, with a million-and-one things
getting told to him,
I think it's nice to speak to someone about it because,
like I said about emotions, you shouldn't bottle them up.
[Jack murmurs indistinctly]
[Luke] First game of the season,
I held my hands up.
I was nowhere near the performance I wanted.
But the gaffer spoke to me and he said,
"Luke, you're trying too hard."
And it was funny that such simple words made so much sense.
He told me to remember the strengths of what got me to where I am today.
"Remember the player that you are, the strengths that you have,
because that's what we're looking for."
-[crowd chants] -[players yell indistinctly]
[mellow music resumes]
-[chanting continues] -[whistle blows]
[mellow music fades]
[Barnes] Emmanuel down the right, trying to find Holloway.
James is on his shoulder, he tries to cut inside.
Blocked by O'Nien.
[crowd shouting]
Gooch now, just outside the penalty area.
-Trying to find O'Nien. O'Nien's shot... -[crowd oohs]
-[commentator 2] Oh! -[Barnes] He's made it 2-nil!
-[crowd cheers] -And surely he's sealed the three points.
Luke O'Nien, a lovely finish.
Just span and smashed it under the keeper.
[Luke chatters indistinctly]
[man] I told ya! [laughs]
[crowd chants]
[Luke] Just pure joy. I, uh... I just ran for my celebration and, uh...
it was a special moment, a very special moment.
Get in there!
Very happy. Um... Nice to get my first goal for Sunderland
and, uh... to get the three points as well was special,
so, uh... a very good day.
[crowd buzzes]
[crowd shouting]
[crowd applauds]
[crowd cheers]
[Barnes] Maja at the near post!
-[commentator 2] He's done it again. -[Barnes] Header, bottom corner.
[crowd cheers]
Come on!
[fans screaming]
[Barnes] Three minutes of added time.
O'Nien now, out to the left-hand side here,
and a break forwards by Oviedo. He's got Connelly in the middle.
Oviedo's ball into the box, drops for Maja...
-Maja wins it! -[commentator 2] Ooh... What a goal.
[Barnes] Maja with his right foot,
-drives it beyond Halstead. -[commentator 2 laughs]
[Barnes] And in the first minute of added time,
Josh Maja has surely won the tie,
for his tenth goal of the season.
[crowd applauds]
-You got your number ten! -[Josh] Eh?
Number ten, mate. Number ten.
That's ten for the season.
[players murmur]
[dishes clatter]
[mellow music playing]
[Stewart] So tell me about that text from Maja's agent.
[Richard] I've gone back with a third offer.
Um...
I think we're now getting... We're at our limit, for me.
And... the agent's come back saying that he'll discuss it with Josh
and come back to me as soon as possible.
I'd give him a week to accept the offer,
otherwise, we'll test the market in January.
[stammers] The thing that bothers me
in all of this, the agent has experience
of moving players abroad.
If he goes overseas...
he... the agent will get... will ask and probably get
in the region-- in the region of a million, agent's fee.
He and his family trust his agent.
-Yeah. -So, like...
[stammers] Yeah, what--
He knows in the summer he's going to get a payday.
[Richard] This, for me, isn't about Josh Maja.
100% about his agent.
End of.
-[Neil] And how much. -Exactly.
-[Neil laughs] And how much. -Exactly.
[Stewart] But why would you want to leave Sunderland Football Club?
-Where does it get better for Josh Maja? -[Stewart] 4,000 mad Sunderland fans
singing your name-- [stammers] Do you remember when you were a kid?
-It was all you ever wanted, wasn't it? -[Richard] Yeah, but football's changed.
[Stewart] Their agents are out of control. They can take them across the border
for a tenth of their value and we're shafted.
[stammers] What's the football club get?
Now we're negotiating like bloody idiots.
[Neil] But it--
-But that's what you've inherited. -[Stewart] Yeah, but it-- Yes,
but it is absolute shit.
If Josh Maja leaves us,
we're going to look like a bunch of numpties.
[Neil] Without a doubt. [chuckles]
I genuinely think that they've already got their strategy set out.
[mellow music fades]
[interviewer] So there's a bit of transfer speculation.
-Transfer speculation? -Yeah.
-About who? -About you.
-About me? -Yeah.
Did you not even see that?
Don't really read newspapers like that.
No.
There was? Hmm.
That's interesting.
-Interesting. -Yeah, just saying a few clubs
were interested in-- Have you got a new contract yet for...
Hasn't been sorted yet, no, but...
I think it's... it's in the... It's getting sorted, basically.
-You don't worry so much about that stuff? -No, I just let my agent
deal with all that stuff, I just-- My head's just focused on football,
playing football, that's it.
[dramatic music playing]
[hums] I'm here right now.
So... that's it.
That's football for you.
That's me. [chuckles]
[dramatic music fades]
[tense music playing]