♪ ♪
>> THE FOLLOWING IS A
PRESENTATION OF HBO SPORTS.
>> THERE WAS A STORY IN FREE
AGENCY.
ONE OF THE TEAMS, THEY WERE
INTERESTED, THEN ALL OF THE
SUDDEN THEY WEREN'T INTERESTED
AT THE VERY END.
I WAS SITTING THERE THINKING,
YOU'RE STICKING WITH THAT
MOTHERFUCKER?
[LAUGHTER]
>> TOM PROBABLY HAD NO DESIRE TO
GO TO THAT TEAM, BUT NOW IT'S
LIKE, WHY DON'T YOU WANT ME?
>> YEAH, FOR SURE.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
YEAH, WHEN I LOOK BACK I'M LIKE,
THERE'S NO FUCKING WAY I
WOULD'VE WENT TO THAT TEAM.
[LAUGHTER]
>> BUT THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T
WANT ME, AND I KNOW WHAT THAT
MEANS, I KNOW WHAT THAT FEELS
LIKE, AND I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU
UP BECAUSE OF THAT.
♪ ♪
>> TOM, YOU KEEP WINNING,
FUCKING --
>> FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER
AND --
>> THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.
NOT FOREVER AND EVER, NO.
>> IT WAS ALREADY HAPPENING.
>> COMING TO THE END.
>> THIS IS SEASON 21, RIGHT?
>> 22.
>> WOW.
>> I GOT TO TELL YOU, YOU DON'T
LOOK LIKE IT'S COMING TO AN END
AT ALL.
>> YOU KNOW, SO MUCH OF IT, FOR
ME, IS ABOUT YOU KNOW HAVING
PERSPECTIVE.
AFTER A WHILE YOU GO, HOLY SHIT,
LIKE, WHAT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW?
AND THERE WAS TIMES WHERE I
WAS YOUNG AND REALLY ENJOYED THE
MOMENT OF SPORTS AND THEN
THOUGHT AFTER WE WON OUR THIRD
SUPER BOWL, I WAS REALLY YOUNG,
25, I WAS LIKE, I MADE SOME
COMMENT LIKE, MAN, MAYBE THERE'S
MORE TO THE MORE TO LIFE THAN
THIS.
AND THEN WE DIDN'T WIN A SUPER
BOWL FOR TEN YEARS AND I WAS
LIKE, FUCK, MAN.
THIS IS REALLY HARD.
[LAUGHTER]
>> AND LIKE THE NEXT TIME WE WON
THE SUPER BOWL WAS LIKE THE MOST
AMAZING EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE
BECAUSE I HAD PERSPECTIVE OF NOT
DOING WELL AND THEN, YOU KNOW,
TAKING IT FOR GRANTED WHEN IT
DID GO WELL AND THEN REALIZING
AT THIS MOMENT OH MY GOD, THAT
WAS LIKE IMPOSSIBLE.
>> YOU HAD A LOT OF FUN DURING
THE PARADE.
I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER
>> WHAT WAS THAT EXPERIENCE FOR
YOU LIKE, JUST CELEBRATING THAT?
>> IT WAS FUN, YOU KNOW.
I HAD BEEN IN THE NORTHEAST FOR
20 YEARS, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S LIKE
FREEZING COLD.
EVERY TIME WE WON IT WAS LIKE 38
AND YOU KNOW YOU WERE FREEZING.
BY THE END OF THE PARADE YOU
WERE LIKE GET ME HOME, YOU KNOW.
THIS, WE'RE OUT ON A BOAT, IT'S
85 DEGREES, WE'RE DRINKING
TEQUILA ALL DAY, AND I
GOT THE SUPER BOWL TROPHY IN MY
HAND, I'M IN MY BOAT, CHELSEA'S
WHERE THE OTHER BOAT IS, AND I'M
LIKE, I'M GOING TO THROW IT TO
MY BOYS OVER THERE.
SO I THROW IT.
AND THE BOTTOM OF THIS TROPHY IS
SHARP.
>> OH, EXACTLY.
>> I MEAN IT COULD'VE GONE SO
BAD.
>> THE BEST PART IS YOU HEAR
EVERYONE ON TOM'S BOAT SAYING NO
NO, NO, TOM, NO, NO, NO.
IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA, NO.
AND TOM'S LIKE I GOT IT, I GOT
IT, LIKE ONE, TWO.
>> I KNOW.
THAT WAS MY DAUGHTER.
SO SHE'S EIGHT YEARS OLD AT THE
TIME, AND SHE GOES DADDY, DADDY,
NO, NO, NO!
>> DRAY, YOU'VE WON THREE
TITLES, AND YOU'VE OPENLY TALKED
ABOUT THE LAST TWO.
YOU WEREN'T REALLY HAVING THAT
MUCH FUN.
SO HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS?
>> FIRST OFF, AFTER GOING
THROUGH LOSING YOU REALIZE WHEN
YOU WEREN'T HAVING FUN WINNING
IT WAS WAY MORE FUN THAN LOSING.
BUT DURING THAT TIME WHERE WE'RE
WINNING AND IT'S ROLLING,
IT'S ROLLING AND FIVE YEARS IN A
ROW YOU GET TO THOSE YEARS WHERE
IT'S LIKE, THIS SHIT IS A GRIND.
YOU KNOW, LIKE EVERY TIME YOU
STEP ON THE COURT IT'S NO LONGER
ABOUT HAVING FUN OR GETTING
BETTER, IT'S JUST NOW ABOUT
WINNING THAT GAME.
YOU STARTED PLAYING BECAUSE IT
WAS FUN.
>> TO HAVE A GOOD TIME, RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
AND THEN YOU YOU GET TO THIS
PINNACLE AND IT'S NO LONGER FUN.
>> I REMEMBER CERTAIN TIMES IN
MY CAREER, I REMEMBER PERFORMING
AT RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, I HAD
LIKE FOUR NIGHTS SOLD OUT IN A
ROW, TWO SHOWS SATURDAY, TWO
SHOWS SUNDAY, AND I DON'T
REMEMBER ANY OF IT.
>> WOW.
>> BECAUSE IT WAS JUST LIKE
THAT, YOU KNOW.
AND LIKE THAT'S THE PINNACLE OF
MANY PEOPLE'S CAREERS.
SO FOR ME TO KIND OF MISS THAT
MOMENT, THAT WAS A BIG LIGHT
BULB TO SLOW THE FUCK DOWN
AND ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT
YOU'RE DOING.
YOU WANTED TO BE A BIG FAMOUS
COMEDIENNE.
AND NOW YOU'RE HERE, PAY
ATTENTION, BE PRESENT IN THE
MOMENT.
>> CUDI, YOU SEEM TO JUST BEEN
LIKE AT SOME POINT LIKE FUCK IT,
I'M GOING TO BE ME.
WAS THERE A MOMENT OR A TIME
WHEN YOU'RE LIKE I'M GOING TO
HAVE FUN AND BE ME AND I DON'T
CARE?
>> WELL, I THINK AT THE TIME,
YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST THINKING
ABOUT HOW CAN I STAND OUT IN THE
WORLD OF HIP HOP AS IT IS, AT
THAT TIME IN 2006, 2007, RIGHT.
THAT'S WHEN I STARTED EXPLORING
A LITTLE BIT MORE AND DIVING
DEEP INTO THINGS I WAS FEELING,
THINGS I WAS HOLDING DEEP DOWN
INSIDE SINCE I WAS A KID.
SIMPLY BECAUSE I FELT LIKE THAT
WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
I FELT LIKE THAT'S WHAT AN
ARTIST IS SUPPOSED TO DO.
YOU KNOW, THROW THEIR LIFE
INTO THE MUSIC, YOU KNOW, AND
TELL THEIR STORY.
>> YEP.
AND WHEN DO YOU DO YOUR BEST
WRITING?
IS IT LIKE, BY YOURSELF?
>> YEAH, IT'S CHANGED OVER THE
YEARS.
LIKE, WHEN I FIRST STARTED
OUT I WOULD KIND OF LIKE SIT
THERE AND LIKE REALLY WRITE MY
RHYMES, LISTENING TO THE BEAT
OVER AND OVER FOR FOR HOURS AND
SIT THERE AND WRITE.
BUT AS TIME WENT ON, I KIND OF
ADOPTED THIS TECHNIQUE THAT
KANYE USED WHERE YOU'RE KIND OF
GOING AND FREESTYLING RAMBLING,
THERE'S NO WORDS, AND IT DOESN'T
MAKE ANY SENSE.
>> MUMBLE, YEAH, YEAH.
>> YEAH, YOU JUST MUMBLE ALL THE
SHIT OUT.
BUT THEN YOU GO BACK AND LISTEN
TO IT AND THEN YOU FIND THE
WORDS IN THE THE MADNESS.
I DO LIKE TO HAVE AS
LITTLE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN THE
ROOM AS POSSIBLE.
YOU KNOW, I CAN'T HAVE LIKE A
ROOM WITH LIKE 30 MOTHERFUCKERS.
>> LIKE A LOT OF RAPPERS DO.
>> LIKE, YEAH, I GO TO SESSIONS,
BRO, I GO TO SESSIONS AND THERE
WILL BE LIKE 30 MOTHERFUCKERS IN
THERE AND I'LL BE LIKE MAN THIS
IS -- AND THIS IS DURING COVID.
[LAUGHTER]
>> I'M LIKE, I'M LIKE OH MAN,
THIS SOME BULLSHIT.
WOW.
>> I CAN'T WORK LIKE THIS.
>> YEAH, I CAN'T DO THIS, MAN.
I CAN'T DO THIS.
>> BUT NO, IT'S REALLY
THERAPEUTIC FOR ME TO JUST BE ON
ON MY OWN AND JUST KIND OF LIKE
RIFF AND BUILD THESE
RECORDS THROUGH THE FREESTYLING,
YOU KNOW.
>> AND CHELSEA, FOR YOU AS A
COMEDIENNE, HOW DO YOU COME UP
WITH YOUR MATERIAL?
>> WHERE DO I WRITE?
WHEREVER I CAN.
WHENEVER I THINK OF SOMETHING
FUNNY.
SOMETIMES I WAKE UP AND GET
STONED AND I'M LIKE, OKAY, YOU
HAVE TO WRITE FOR AN HOUR NOW.
YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELF.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
LIKE PERFORM, GET IT OUT THERE.
>> EXACTLY.
>> BUT WHENEVER I CAN.
WHENEVER I HAVE A FUNNY IDEA.
YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO BE THINKING
ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME BECAUSE I
AM A COMEDIENNE SO IT'S ABOUT
EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, YOU
KNOW, AND ALL THE SHIT I SEE.
AND RIGHT NOW WHAT'S ON THE MENU
IS MIDDLE-AGED WHITE MEN, YOU
KNOW WHAT I MEAN --
NO OFFENSE TOM, I'M NOT TALKING
ABOUT YOU.
[LAUGHTER]
I'M JUST SAYING IN GENERAL.
>> I'M NOT MIDDLE AGED YET.
I'M STILL --
>> HE STILL YOUNG.
>> BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
>> YES, I DO.
>> IT'S LIKE, LISTEN,
EVERYTHING'S OUT BUT THAT, SO
LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW.
>> I FEEL LIKE ONE OF THE
THINGS I WAS REAL EXCITED ABOUT
LIKE WHEN THIS GROUP OF YOU FOUR
CAME TOGETHER WAS IN EACH OF
YOUR CAREERS, YOU GUYS HAVE
CHARTED YOUR OWN PATH.
LIKE WHERE'S THAT CONFIDENCE
COME FROM TO LIKE CHART YOUR OWN
PATH AND NOT BE AFRAID OF
WHAT PEOPLE --
>> SAY, FUCK IT, I'M GOING TO DO
MY THING.
>> EXACTLY.
>> I THINK THAT CONFIDENCE FOR
ME, THAT SHIT STEMS ALL THE WAY
BACK TO ME AS A KID.
LIKE, MY MOM, THE WAY SHE
SUPPORTED ME AND LIKE ALL OF MY
CRAZY ASS WAYS THAT YOU STILL
SEE TO THIS DAY.
>> THERE'S A LOT OF THEM.
>> THERE'S A BUNCH OF THEM.
BUT THE SUPPORT FROM MY MOM,
IT WAS LIKE ALWAYS THERE.
NOW WHAT I FOUND OUT OVER THE
COURSE OF MY CAREER SHE COME
AROUND THE BACKSIDE AND
COMPLETELY BACKDOOR ME AND TELL
SOMEBODY HOW FUCKED UP IT WAS
WHAT I DID, BUT --
>> OH, BUT SHE SUPPORTS YOU.
>> BUT SHE SUPPORTED ME.
AND SO THAT JUST GAVE ME THE
ULTIMATE CONFIDENCE TO GO OUT
AND PRETTY MUCH SAY, FUCK
EVERYBODY.
BECAUSE I ALWAYS VIEWED IT AS I
GOT A MUCH BETTER CHANCE AT
BEING ME, AND EITHER YOU'RE
GOING TO LOVE IT OR HATE IT BUT
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AN OPINION
ABOUT IT, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
AND SO, FOR ME, WHETHER YOU
WHETHER IT'S GOOD OR WHETHER
IT'S BAD, I DID MY JOB BECAUSE
YOU YOU NOT STUCK HERE TRYING TO
FIGURE IT OUT, YOU MADE YOUR
DECISION.
I FUCKING MADE YOU MAKE THAT
DECISION, THOUGH.
YOU DIDN'T JUST MAKE IT ON YOUR
OWN.
>> FOR SURE.
AND TOM, LIKE, YOU'RE THE MOST
JUDGED ATHLETE IN THE WORLD.
WHERE DOES THAT CONFIDENCE COME
FROM TO BE LIKE, I'M GOING TO
MAKE THE CALL WITH THE
INFORMATION I HAVE AND I'LL LIVE
WITH THE RESULT?
>> WELL, I'VE HAD, YOU KNOW, AT
THIS POINT I'VE HAD A LOT OF
EXPERIENCE, AND I THINK FOR ME I
WAS VERY BLESSED TO HAVE THE
RIGHT PEOPLE COME INTO MY LIFE
AT THE RIGHT TIME.
ALEX, MY GREAT FRIEND, MY
BROTHER, YOU KNOW, HE'S OUT HERE
WITH ME TODAY, YOU KNOW, I WAS
STRUGGLING WITH HOW TO TAKE CARE
OF MY BODY, I WANTED TO PLAY
SPORTS BUT MY BODY HURT ALL THE
TIME, MY RIGHT ELBOW HURT EVERY
TIME I THREW.
>> OH, WOW.
>> SO, I STARTED WORKING WITH
HIM AND ALL THE PAIN IN MY ELBOW
WENT AWAY.
I TAKE CARE OF MY BODY SO THAT
WHEN I GO ON THE FIELD IT'S
ACTUALLY FEELING GREAT.
BECAUSE EVERYONE, EVERY ATHLETE
LOVES TO FEEL GREAT, YOU KNOW.
I SEE ALL THESE NBA GUYS
GETTING HURT ALL THE TIME BUT IN
MY MIND I'M THINKING THIS IS SO
EASY, YOU JUST -- NO OFFENSE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO RUN THAT FAR,
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
IS NOT A LOT OF CONTACT.
YOU GOT NICE COMFORTABLE SHOES
ON, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, IT'S
NICE CLIMATE ALL THE TIME.
YOU KNOW LIKE YOU GUYS --
MAN, IF I WAS A BASKETBALL
PLAYER I ALWAYS THOUGHT LEBRON,
LIKE, MAN, IF HE FELT 100% EVERY
NIGHT IT'D BE SCARY.
YOU KNOW, AND I'VE BEEN VERY
FORTUNATE TO FEEL NOT ALWAYS
100% BUT CLOSE TO THAT, SO.
>> I WOULDN'T MIND SEEING TOM DO
SOME BASKETBALL DRILLS AFTER
HEARING THIS.
>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO
SAY.
THE WAY HE'S TALKING, HE --
>> LET'S GET THAT SHOW ON THE
ROAD.
>> DRAY, THE WAY HE WAS TALKING
HE WAS LIKE, YO, I THINK I CAN.
>> NO.
>> I JUST THOUGHT ABOUT SAYING
SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT HE SAID BUT
THEN I FELT LIKE YOU KNOW I'LL
PROBABLY GET FUCKING CRUSHED FOR
SAYING SOMETHING BACK TO
TOM BRADY.
SO I JUST DECIDED TO SHUT THE
FUCK UP.
>> NO.
THERE'S NO OFFENSE TAKEN.
I LOVE BASKETBALL.
>> NO, NO, NO, NO OFFENSE TAKEN,
NO OFFENSE TAKEN.
I THINK THERE IS JUST, I
THINK THERE'S ALWAYS YOU'LL SEE
IT FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND
WE'LL SEE IT FROM OUR
PERSPECTIVE.
WHAT WE SEE AS A BASKETBALL
PLAYER IS AS A FOOTBALL
PLAYER I DON'T HAVE TO BE IN AS
GREAT OF SHAPE BECAUSE YOU GET
TO FUCKING STOP YOU YOU STOP
AFTER EVERY PLAY.
YOU CAN GET CALLED ON A
BASKETBALL COURT AND BE RUNNING
FOR SEVEN MINUTES STRAIGHT
WITHOUT A TIMEOUT BACK AND
FORTH.
>> YEAH.
>> BY THE WAY I'M NOT GETTING
OUT THERE ON THE
FUCKING FOOTBALL FIELD.
I'M GOOD.
[LAUGHTER]
>> LET'S GO POINT FOR POINT.
>> LEBRON ONCE MADE A COMMENT ON
THIS SHOW, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF
YOU EVER SAW THIS EPISODE.
BECAUSE I WAS SAYING TO HIM I
THINK TOM BRADY IS THE GREATEST
ATHLETE OF ALL TIME AND LEBRON'S
LIKE I LOVE TOM, I THINK HE'S
THE GREATEST FOOTBALL PLAYER BUT
FOOTBALL PLAYERS DON'T HAVE TO
PLAY OFFENSE AND DEFENSE.
I DISAGREED WITH HIM.
DO YOU REMEMBER THAT, TOM?
>> I REMEMBER WHEN HE SAID THAT,
I REMEMBER.
OF COURSE I REMEMBER WHEN HE
SAID THAT.
>> I DISAGREE --
TOM, I DISAGREED WITH HIM.
WHAT DID YOU THINK?
>> YEAH.
UM...
[PAUSES]
>> WE KEEP IT REAL ON "THE
SHOP," TOM.
TOM, WE KEEP IT REAL ON THE
SHOP.
>> DON'T BE CALCULATED.
>> I'M TRYING TO, I WANT TO --
YEAH.
I'M NOT A BIG COMPARISON THING
LIKE THAT.
>> I AGREE, YEAH.
>> BECAUSE REALLY JUST DEPENDS
WHAT STYLE YOU LIKE.
>> TRUE.
>> RIGHT?
YOU COULD SAY, WELL, YOU MAY BE
THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED.
I WOULD SAY OKAY, YEAH, I'VE
WON A LOT OF GAMES, SUPER BOWLS,
AND SO FORTH.
BUT MY STYLE OF PLAY MIGHT NOT
FIT EVERYBODY ELSE'S, WHAT THEIR
VIEW OF WHAT THAT POSITION
SHOULD BE.
>> I AGREE.
>> I CAN REALLY JUST BE THE BEST
WITH THE BODY THAT I WAS GIVEN,
YOU KNOW?
>> MMHMM.
>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAIN
THINGS THAT I CERTAINLY CANNOT
DO.
AND I HAVE THE AWARENESS TO
REALIZE, OKAY, I CAN'T DO THOSE
THINGS.
YOU CAN'T DO EVERYONE ELSE'S
JOB.
I CAN'T.
I CAN'T BLOCK, TACKLE, RUN,
CATCH.
SURE AS -- YOU KNOW SURE AS HELL
CAN'T RUN.
[LAUGHTER]
BUT I CAN THROW THE SHIT OUT OF
A BALL, YOU KNOW, SO LET ME JUST
DO THAT, AND LET ME DO THAT
REALLY WELL, YOU KNOW.
>> RIGHT, RIGHT.
>> AND I THINK IF I COULD DO
THAT THEN THE TEAM CERTAINLY
COULD USE ME FOR THAT.
>> IT'S ALSO INTERESTING TO
ALWAYS RECOGNIZE WHEN YOU'RE NOT
GOOD AT SOMETHING, RIGHT.
AND SOMEONE ELSE IN YOUR ORBIT
IS.
>> YEAH.
>> LIKE, BECAUSE I THINK A LOT
OF PEOPLE WHEN THEY BECOME
SUCCESSFUL GET A LITTLE
DELUSIONAL ABOUT HOW SMART THEY
ARE AND HOW CAPABLE THEY ARE, SO
THEY TRY AND PERMEATE THAT
THROUGHOUT EVERY FACET OF THEIR
PROFESSIONAL LIFE AND MAYBE
PERSONAL LIFE.
AND THEN YOU COME TO A POINT OF
REALIZATION WHERE YOU'RE LIKE,
THAT PERSON IS ACTUALLY MORE
TALENTED AT THIS THAN I AM, LET
ME LET THEM DO THAT AND LET THIS
PERSON DO THAT.
BECAUSE THAT'S A REAL SIGN OF A
LEADER, I THINK, IS BEING ABLE
TO DEPUTIZE.
>> THAT'S WHY THERE'S A LOT OF
UNSUCCESSFUL PEOPLE AND A LOT OF
FUCKING DUMBASSES.
AND YOU CAN TELL BY
THE CRITICISM THAT COMES TO YOU
OR THE CRITICISM THAT COMES TO
YOU.
I'VE FOUND THAT SOLACE IN THAT
OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, AND
JUST LIKE LISTENING TO PEOPLE
AND WHAT THEY SAY AND THE
CRITICISM, IT'LL ACTUALLY SHOW
YOU HOW FUCKING STUPID PEOPLE
ARE THROUGH THEIR CRITICISM.
FOR INSTANCE, PEOPLE WILL SAY,
DRAYMOND, YOU SHOULD SHOOT.
BUT IF I CAN GET STEPH CURRY THE
BALL FOR A FUCKING SHOT WHY
WOULD I SHOOT?
>> YOU SHOULD NEVER SHOOT.
>> YOU'RE ACTUALLY A FUCKING
IDIOT FOR THINKING I SHOULD
SHOOT BECAUSE I CAN GET HIM THE
SHOT, AND IF HE'S HALF OPEN IT'S
BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THE
WORLD!
IF HE'S HALF OPEN!
♪ ♪
>> CUDI, ALBUM TO ALBUM, YOUR
MUSIC IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE YOUR
LIFE IS DIFFERENT, SO YOUR FANS
AND THE CONSUMERS OF YOUR MUSIC
HAVE TO GO ON THAT JOURNEY WITH
YOU.
>> WELL, THAT'S -- FOR ME,
THAT'S TRULY THE MOST
IMPORTANT THING.
LIKE, THERE'S SO MANY RAPPERS TO
THIS DAY RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE
BEEN IN THIS GAME FOR YEARS THAT
HAVE HIT THE CEILING ON WHAT
THEY'RE GOING TO DO.
>> YUP.
>> WE DONE SEEN IT ALL, YOU
KNOW.
AND I TOLD MYSELF FROM DAY
ONE I NEVER WANT TO BE ONE OF
THOSE GUYS.
AND I THINK THAT I'VE BEEN LUCKY
ENOUGH TO HAVE A FAN BASE THAT'S
LIKE, OKAY WITH ME TAKING THESE
BIG LEAPS.
LIKE, I DID A PUNK ROCK ALBUM
AND IT DID MISERABLE.
>> OF COURSE.
[LAUGHTER]
>> LIKE, IT WAS LIKE --
>> BUT YOU TOOK A LEAP, YEAH.
>> YEAH, I TOOK A LEAP AND
PEOPLE PEOPLE RESPECTED THAT,
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING.
AND IN A WORLD WHERE EVERY
ARTIST IS KIND OF JUST DOING
WHAT THEY THINK IS COOL AND
TRYING TO FIT IN, THAT SHIT GOES
A LONG WAY, SO LIKE
A BOMB AMONGST ALL THIS OTHER
SHIT GOING ON, YOU KNOW.
>> IN A WORLD WHERE EVERYONE
ELSE IS TRYING TO FIT IN,
EVERYONE ELSE REALLY CARES WHAT
EVERYONE ELSE THINKS, WALK US
THROUGH THE PROCESS OF LIKE --
WHEN IT CAME TO YOU LIKE, YEAH,
I'M GOING TO WEAR A DRESS ON
"SNL."
>> WELL, I'M A HUGE KURT COBAIN
FAN.
MY FANS KNOW THIS ABOUT ME.
AND I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO WEAR A
DRESS EVER SINCE I SAW KURT
WEARING THIS DRESS BACK IN THE
DAY AT ONE OF HIS SHOWS IN THE
'80S, AND I WAS ALWAYS LIKE MAN,
ONE DAY I'M GOING TO DO THAT,
I'M GOING TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW,
AND THIS IS LIKE YEARS AGO,
RIGHT.
SO "SNL" COMES MY WAY, SO I
IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT LIKE, THIS
WOULD BE THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY
TO WEAR A DRESS.
BUT DO I GO TO A STORE AND JUST
LIKE, BUY SOMETHING OFF THE RACK
OR DO I GO GET SOMEBODY TO MAKE
ME SOME SHIT, RIGHT.
[LAUGHTER]
>> SO, I WAS LIKE, I WAS AT THIS
POINT WHERE I WAS LIKE, LOOKING
ON MY PHONE LIKE KIND OF LOOKING
AT ALL THESE DIFFERENT STORES,
LIKE LOOKING AT DRESSES, AND I
WAS JUST LIKE WELL, THIS IS
CUTE, THIS IS CUTE.
[LAUGHTER]
>> AND THEN I FINALLY REALIZED,
I WAS LIKE, YO, I'M GOING TO GET
VIRGIL.
BECAUSE VIRGIL'S MY BOY.
>> OF COURSE.
>> AND I SAID, I'M GOING TO GET
VIRGIL TO DO THIS, I'M GOING TO
SEE IF HE HAS TIME, BECAUSE HE'S
CRAZY, HE'S GOT A LOT OF THINGS
HE'S DOING, AND HE HIT ME RIGHT
BACK AND WAS LIKE YES, LET'S GO,
I GOT PRINTS, WHAT YOU WANT.
I WAS LIKE ALL RIGHT I WANT
SOMETHING FLORAL LIKE A
SUNDRESS.
HE'S LIKE PERFECT.
HE SENT ME LIKE PRINTS LIKE TWO
SECONDS LATER.
LIKE HE HAD THEM SHITS ON DECK,
RIGHT.
JUST HAD PRINTS.
>> DURING THIS PROCESS, AT ANY
MOMENT ARE YOU LIKE, I'M GOING
TO GET FRIED, LIKE, IN THE
MEDIA?
>> NO, BECAUSE --
>> OKAY.
>> NO, I -- THE IMAGE OF SEEING
KURT COBAIN IN THE DRESS WAS
VERY ROCK 'N ROLL TO ME, THAT
WAS COOL.
>> DOPE.
>> SO, YOU KNOW, I ALREADY MADE
MY MIND UP YEARS AGO THAT I
WANTED TO DO THIS, SO IT WAS
REALLY --
AND I I'VE NEVER BEEN SOMEONE
WHO IS LIKE, THINKING ABOUT THE
BACKLASH, LIKE I DON'T GIVE A
FUCK ABOUT WHAT ANYONE THINKS,
YOU KNOW.
YOU CAN'T WHEN YOU'RE DOING THIS
SHIT.
I KNEW IT WOULD PISS SOME PEOPLE
OFF BUT I LOVE THAT BECAUSE HIP
HOP IS LIKE, SO WEIRD ABOUT
SHIT, YOU KNOW.
>> MASCULINITY, OF COURSE.
>> YEAH, YOU KNOW.
SO, LIKE YOU KNOW IT'S LIKE I'VE
ALREADY SEEN LIKE PEOPLE MAKING
YOUTUBE VIDEOS WHERE THEY'RE
JUST STRICTLY TALKING ABOUT ME
IN THIS DRESS.
LIKE, GROWN MEN ANGRY, GROWN
BLACK MEN ANGRY.
LIKE, HE'S DOING SOMETHING
AGAINST MEN AND MASCULINITY,
IT'S A BIG THING GOING ON, IT'S
A PLOY, AND HE'S A PART OF IT,
AND THIS AND THIS.
AND I'LL JUST BE LIKE, YO, THIS
IS SO FUNNY, THIS IS CRAZY THAT
I'VE STIRRED IT UP LIKE THIS.
LIKE, THIS IS THIS IS WILD, YOU
KNOW.
BUT IF THIS WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO
DO THEN SO BE IT.
I WANT TO BE A DISRUPTOR.
I WANT TO FUCK SHIT UP.
AND IT'S COOL BECAUSE I'M ALSO
GIVING CONFIDENCE TO THE KIDS
AND AND TELLING THEM TO BE
THEMSELVES AND DO WHAT THEY WANT
TO DO, YOU KNOW.
IF YOU WANT TO WEAR A DRESS WEAR
A DRESS.
BE WHO YOU ARE.
>> AND DID YOU GET ANY CALLS
FROM YOUR PEERS?
OTHER RAPPERS, OTHER HIP HOP
ARTISTS, OTHER MUSICIANS, OTHER
ARTISTS?
>> I DON'T KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE
KANYE'S GOING TO HIT ME UP AND
BE LIKE, YO, THAT DRESS WAS
FRESH.
[LAUGHTER]
>> THAT FLORAL DRESS WAS DOPE.
>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, BUT IT'S
OKAY.
I KNOW THAT KANYE SEES THAT AND
HE RESPECTS ME FOR IT, YOU KNOW
WHAT I'M SAYING?
>> OF COURSE.
>> IS THERE ANYTHING THAT DOES
BOTHER YOU?
THAT YOU CARE ABOUT ANOTHER
PERSON'S OPINION OR THAT IT BUMS
YOU OUT WHEN PEOPLE SAY
SOMETHING ABOUT YOU?
>> I'M MORE LIKE, HMM, I WONDER
WHY THEY FEEL THAT WAY?
FUCK 'EM.
[LAUGHTER]
>> IT'S REAL BRIEF.
>> I LOVE THAT, BUDDY.
I'M GOING TO ADOPT THAT.
WHOA.
THAT WOULD SAVE ME A LOT OF --
LOVE THAT.
>> YOU GUYS, THEIR PROFESSION IS
A LITTLE BIT -- THEY HAVE TO
SHOW UP AND SEE THE PRESS AFTER
PRACTICE --
>> YEAH, THAT'S A NIGHTMARE.
>> AND NAOMI OSAKA OBVIOUSLY
FAMOUSLY JUST WITHDREW FROM THE
FRENCH OPEN.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S PART OF IT
OR IT SHOULDN'T BE, OR WHAT?
>> I THINK IT IS A PART OF IT,
JUST BECAUSE THAT'S HOW --
THEY'VE MADE IT THAT WAY.
SO, YES, IT IS A PART OF IT.
BUT THE THING THAT PISSES ME OFF
IS IS IT'S ALMOST AS
BIG OF A DOUBLE STANDARD AS YOU
CAN EVER HAVE.
>> OH, I KNOW.
>> AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS
BECAUSE YOU THROW THIS
MICROPHONE IN MY FACE WHILE YOU
KNOW I'M PISSED OFF, WHILE YOU
KNOW, LIKE, I JUST GOT EJECTED
FROM THE GAME, AND THEN YOU
THROW THE MIC IN MY FACE LIKE
WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK, AND
THEN IF I SAY "FUCK YOU" I GET
FINED.
YOU WANT MY NATURAL REACTION
BUT I'M ACTUALLY NOT ALLOWED TO
GIVE YOU A NATURAL REACTION.
>> YEAH.
>> BECAUSE IF I GIVE YOU MY
NATURAL REACTION YOU'RE GOING TO
TAKE MY MONEY.
I WORKED MY ASS OFF FOR THIS
MONEY.
[LAUGHTER]
>> YOU PROBABLY JUST GOT
FINED --
>> THE PAINT, THE PAINT IS NEW
-- STILL THERE.
>> I'LL PROBABLY GET SOME.
>> AS LONG AS I'VE WATCHED YOU
PLAY, AS LONG AS I'VE WATCHED
YOU, I CAN'T IMAGINE YOU DON'T
SAY WHAT YOU THINK I THINK.
YOU'RE HOLDING BACK?
>> WHAT ELSE IS IN THERE?
>> OH, YOU'LL BE SHOCKED.
YOU'LL BE SHOCKED.
>> WHAT ELSE IS HE HOLDING BACK?
>> I KNOW.
>> I'VE LEARNED HOW TO TAILOR IT
A LITTLE BIT.
YOU'D BE SHOCKED, TOM.
>> TOM, ARE THERE MOMENTS WHEN
YOU JUST WANT TO LIKE, PULL A
DRAYMOND MAYBE AND AND TAKE THE
FINE, OR?
>> WHAT I SAY VERSUS WHAT I
THINK ARE TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT
THINGS.
I WOULD SAY 90% OF WHAT I SAY
IS PROBABLY NOT WHAT I'M
THINKING.
WHICH IS CHALLENGING, YOU KNOW.
>> WOW.
>> AND I REALLY ADMIRE PEOPLE
THAT ACTUALLY CAN DO THAT AND
SAY WHAT THEY THINK BECAUSE THEY
INVITE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS
INTO THEIR LIFE.
AND I THINK THERE'S PART OF ME
THAT DOESN'T LIKE CONFLICT SO IN
THE END, I JUST ALWAYS TRY TO
PLAY IT SUPER FLAT.
>> OF COURSE.
>> FROM A STRATEGIC STANDPOINT I
NEVER WANT TO GIVE AWAY LIKE,
WHAT WE'RE DOING, YOU KNOW WHAT
I'M SAYING?
>> OF COURSE.
>> LIKE, I USUALLY SAY THE
OPPOSITE.
YOU KNOW, THEY GOT A SHITTY
CORNER I'LL BE LIKE, THAT GUY IS
UNBELIEVABLE.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW THEY
COMPLETE BALLS OVER THERE.
IN MY MIND, I'M THINKING I'M
GOING TO LIKE THAT MOTHERFUCKER
ALL DAY.
[LAUGHTER]
>> BECAUSE I DON'T WANT
TO GIVE THEM ANY --
>> OF COURSE.
>> SO, AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO
OTHER THINGS I THINK THERE'S
PART OF IT THAT'S YOU KNOW SO
MUCH IS GIVING OTHER PEOPLE YOUR
POWER, YOU KNOW.
WHY CAN WHAT CHELSEA SAY REALLY
AFFECT ME?
IN MY VIEW, IT SHOULDN'T, OR
ELSE YOU HAVE POWER OVER ME
BASED ON WHAT YOU SAY.
I TRY TO THINK A LOT BEFORE I
SPEAK.
SOME PEOPLE...
LIKE MY WIFE FOR EXAMPLE,
SHE JUST LETS IT COME OUT.
IT'S LIKE, AND IT'S OUT, AND I
AM LIKE, OH, SHIT.
HER INSTINCTS AND NATURE IS
USUALLY RIGHT WITH A LOT OF THE
THINGS SHE SAYS AND THINKS.
HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THE
SITUATION OR ANSWER BECAUSE I
DON'T WANT TO SAY SOMETHING THAT
IN THE END I'LL BE LIKE, WISH I
HAD SAID SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
>> I'VE GOT SOMETHING FOR YOU.
A LITTLE HIDDEN GEM FOR YOU,
ANYTHING YOU'VE EVER HEARD ME
SAY I DIDN'T MISTAKENLY SAY IT.
I SET IT ON PURPOSE.
IF YOU KNOW ME, I'M A COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT PERSON THAN YOU SEE ON
THE FLOOR.
I'M TRYING TO TAP INTO THAT
PERSON.
MEANWHILE YOU WANT ME TO SIT AND
TALK TO YOU.
THE SAME GUY THAT SITS AND TALKS
TO YOU IS NOT THE SAME GUY THAT
GOES ON THE FLOOR.
WHEN YOU'RE ON STAGE, CUDI, IS
THAT A WHOLE DIFFERENT
CHARACTER?
>> YES.
>> TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN.
>> WHEN I'M ON STAGE, I LOOK IN
THE MIRROR AND I AM LIKE, I AM
THE COLDEST MOTHERFUCKER ALIVE.
SOMETHING INSIDE ME WAKES UP.
LIKE I'M THIS WHOLE OTHER BEING
WHEN I'M OUT THERE.
AND WHEN I'M OFF STAGE IT'S
OVER.
LIKE I CAN --
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER AND JUST BE LIKE, THAT
WAS CRAZY, WHERE IS MY BLUNT?
WHERE'S MY WEED?
>> BY THE WAY, IT GOES AWAY THE
MINUTE YOUR OFFSTAGE, RIGHT?
>> ACTUALLY, AFTER A SHOW, I
CAN'T GO TO SLEEP.
AFTER A GAME YOU CAN'T SLEEP?
>> I CAN'T SLEEP UNTIL AFTER
6:00 A.M..
>> YEAH, BECAUSE I'M STILL
TURNED UP.
>> CUDI, I FEEL LIKE YOU WERE
EARLY ON SPEAKING OUT ABOUT
MENTAL HEALTH.
AND THERE WAS A BACKLASH, RIGHT?
PEOPLE USED IT AGAINST YOU IN
MUSIC AND ALL THESE THINGS.
WHAT WERE YOU -- WHAT WAS YOUR
THOUGHT PROCESS THAT EARLY ON,
JUST BEING OUTWARDLY SPOKEN ON
MENTAL HEALTH?
>> I KNEW THAT WHAT I WAS DOING
WAS GOING TO HELP MILLIONS OF
OTHER KIDS FOREVER, YOU KNOW.
SO THAT WAS KIND OF WHAT FUELED
THE WHOLE SHIT FOR ME.
I KNEW THAT BY BEING OPEN AND
HONEST ABOUT THE THINGS THAT I
WAS DEALING WITH, THERE COULD BE
SOME KID IN CLEVELAND WHERE I'M
FROM, LISTENING AND BEING LIKE,
DAMN, THIS IS FINALLY SOME SHIT
THAT I CAN DIG INTO, THAT I
FINALLY HEAR SOMEBODY'S VOICE
THAT UNDERSTANDS ME AND IS
SPEAKING FOR ME.
I MEAN, WHEN I WAS COMING UP, I
WAS A FAN OF A LOT OF SHIT, BUT
I CAN'T SAY I LISTEN TO
SOMETHING AND LIKE, SAW MYSELF
IN IT, YOU KNOW?
I LOVE JAY, BUT I DIDN'T SEE A
CONNECTION WITH MY LIFE AND HIS.
I JUST LOOKED AT HIM AS A BIG
BRO THAT WAS KIND OF GIVEN ME
GAME AND SHIT, YOU KNOW?
SAME THING WITH TUPAC
OR BIGGIE OR NAS, YOU KNOW.
>> I DID WANT TO ASK CHELSEA, WE
TALKING ABOUT THE MEDIA, THE
BOGEYMAN, ALL THESE THINGS.
FOR YOU SITTING ON THE OTHER
SIDE OF THAT HAVE YOU FELT THE
KIND OF SHIFT IN RESPONSIBILITY
OF HAVING THE MICROPHONE AND
ASKING QUESTIONS AND DRIVING
THOSE CONVERSATIONS?
>> LISTEN, I'M NOT HERE TO
ANSWER SERIOUS QUESTIONS.
I JUST KNOW A LOT OF MEN WATCH
THIS SHOW AND I'M LOOKING FOR
SOME POST-COVID ACTION, SO
THAT'S WHY.
[LAUGHTER]
>> WELL, THAT IS THAT IS ONE
REASON WHY I'M HERE.
BUT TO ANSWER, I WANT TO SAY
SOMETHING ABOUT NAOMI BECAUSE
YOU GUYS WERE TALKING ABOUT HER.
AT SUCH AN ANTIQUATED NOTION.
IT'S AN ANTIQUATED NOTION TO
FORCE PEOPLE TO HAVE A
CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE THEY
DON'T WANT TO TALK TO.
THEY'RE PAYING YOU AND THEN THEY
PENALIZE YOU WHEN YOU DON'T WANT
TO TALK TO THEM.
THAT IS A SYSTEM THAT NEEDS TO
BE LOOKED AT, OBVIOUSLY.
THEY SAY WE'RE GOING TO FIND YOU
FOR NOT TALKING AND I HOPE YOU
FEEL BETTER.
AS OF MENTAL ILLNESS IS A
PERIOD.
LIKE SHE'S GOING TO BE FINE IN A
WEEK.
IT'S LIKE, HELLO?
THAT SPEAKS TO HOW OUT OF TOUCH
THESE PATRIARCHAL SYSTEMS ARE.
I KNOW IT'S PART OF THE SYSTEM
BUT IT COULD BE UPDATED.
>> IN YOUR MIND, HOW SHOULD YOU
IMPROVE IT?
>> IF YOU'RE IN A SITUATION AND
YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK SOMEONE,
YOUR CONTRACT SHOULDN'T OBLIGATE
YOU TO DO SO.
EVEN IN MY INDUSTRY, I DO PRESS
BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO
DO AND IT'S THE WAY TO KEEP
MOVING, IT'S, YOU'VE GOT TO DO
IT.
NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO DO IT.
YOU COULD SAY MY CAREER DEPENDS
ON IT, SURE, BUT NO ONE IS
SAYING YOU BETTER DO THIS OR YOU
GET A FINE.
A HUMAN BEING, AN ADULT IS
HAVING MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.
WE HAVE TO RESPECT THAT.
>> YOU FEEL FOR THE 22-YEAR-OLDS
THAT ARE IN THE POSITION THAT,
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS
HAPPENING IN THEIR LIFE.
WE ALL GO THROUGH THINGS.
I WENT THROUGH A LOT OF THINGS
IN MY LATE TEENS, EARLY 20s.
I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH A
LOT OF THINGS THAT WERE COMING
BECAUSE THERE WAS NO TRAINING
GUIDE FOR HOW TO DEAL WITH WHAT
WAS HAPPENING IN MY LIFE, YOU
KNOW.
NOW, AS SOMEONE WHO IS TWICE HER
AGE, YOU HAVE COMPASSION AND
EMPATHY FOR THAT AND THEN YOU
HOPE THAT SHE CAN DEAL WITH
THAT, BECAUSE YOU WOULDN'T WANT
THAT TO TAKE AWAY -- IF HER TRUE
JOY IS ACTUALLY PLAYING TENNIS,
YOU DON'T WANT SOMETHING LIKE
THAT TAKING AWAY FROM WHAT HER
JOY SHOULD BE.
AND LIKE MARSHAWN LYNCH, THAT
WAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THING.
I'M JUST HERE SO I DON'T GET
FINED.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
HE PUT NO MENTAL ENERGY INTO ANY
QUESTION AND HE DIDN'T GET FINED
FOR THAT.
IT WAS A VERY HARD THING TO DO
AND THERE'S SO MANY TIMES WHERE
I'M LIKE, I WISH I COULD JUST
GO, JUST SO I -- I'VE SAID THAT
50 TIMES AND I'VE NEVER DONE IT.
ONE DAY I WILL DO THAT BEFORE I
RETIRE.
>> DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE
THAT FREEDOM TO JUST SAY
WHATEVER THE FUCK --
>> NO, DEFINITELY NOT.
BECAUSE YOU'RE IN AN ENTERPRISE
AND I AM AN EMPLOYEE OF THAT
ENTERPRISE.
I'M NOT MY OWN ENTREPRENEUR
WHERE I CAN MAKE MY OWN
INDIVIDUAL CHOICES.
I'LL GET TO THAT POINT WHERE I
CAN BUT YOU'RE STILL IN THE
STRUCTURE A SYSTEM WHERE YOU
FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO PLAY BY,
AT LEAST MY OWN, I HAVE TO PLAY
BY THEIR RULES.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S DEFINITELY
TIMES WHERE YOU DON'T WANT TO
PLAY BY THE RULES.
>> AND THAT MUST BE REALLY
FRUSTRATING, RIGHT?
BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO
DIFFERENT ATTITUDES TOWARDS IT.
YOU'RE FEELING LIKE YOU HAVE TO
BE THE POSTER BOY AND YOU ARE
SAYING, FUCK THIS SHIT, I'M NOT
DOWN WITH IT.
IT MUST BE FRUSTRATING FOR BOTH
OF YOU FOR DIFFERENT REASONS
BECAUSE YOU MUST HAVE A LOT OF
PENT UP THINGS THAT YOU'D LIKE
TO SAY.
[LAUGHTER]
>> AND YOU'RE PROBABLY OUT OF
THINGS YOU'D LIKE TO SAY, YOU
KNOW?
[LAUGHTER]
♪ ♪
>> HOW AND WHEN DO YOU CHOOSE TO
CENSOR YOURSELF?
>> I DON'T LIKE TO MAKE FUN OF
BABIES, LET'S START THERE.
THAT SEEMS PRETTY LOW.
ESPECIALLY UNATTRACTIVE
CHILDREN.
NO, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
[LAUGHTER]
>> MOST PEOPLE THINK THERE IS NO
UNATTRACTIVE BABIES, BUT --
>> THERE ARE.
I'M GOING TO TELL YOU, THERE ARE
AND I'M CHOOSING NOT TO MAKE FUN
OF THEM.
♪ ♪