1 00:00:23,763 --> 00:00:27,723 Red Lodge, Montana is a very close-knit community. 2 00:00:29,083 --> 00:00:30,643 Everybody knows everybody. 3 00:00:36,003 --> 00:00:38,683 This homicide, everybody was talking about it. 4 00:00:41,283 --> 00:00:46,283 And everybody had their own theories on why it happened and what had happened. 5 00:01:07,923 --> 00:01:10,643 I remember the first time when I went to court. 6 00:01:12,923 --> 00:01:16,123 They all looked at me differently, like I was a… 7 00:01:16,203 --> 00:01:17,523 like I was a monster. 8 00:01:30,043 --> 00:01:33,923 I kept trying to tell them I never meant for anything to happen. 9 00:01:36,123 --> 00:01:38,043 I'm not a cold-blooded killer. 10 00:01:42,563 --> 00:01:45,403 There was no, in any way, shape or form, 11 00:01:45,483 --> 00:01:48,083 any intention of hurting my best friend ever, 12 00:01:48,163 --> 00:01:50,163 ever, ever. 13 00:02:30,403 --> 00:02:32,723 -Are we good to go? -We're good to go. 14 00:02:32,803 --> 00:02:33,643 Okay. 15 00:02:39,363 --> 00:02:41,083 My name is Thomas Schifferns. 16 00:02:45,123 --> 00:02:46,643 I'm 37 years old. 17 00:02:49,243 --> 00:02:52,363 I'm currently imprisoned in Shelby, Montana 18 00:02:52,443 --> 00:02:55,083 for the death of my best friend. 19 00:03:13,043 --> 00:03:17,523 I was born in 1984 in Kern County, California. 20 00:03:20,203 --> 00:03:23,643 When I was four years old, my parents divorced. 21 00:03:23,723 --> 00:03:27,403 My dad got remarried to my stepmother. 22 00:03:30,203 --> 00:03:33,443 Life got really hard for me. 23 00:03:34,643 --> 00:03:37,763 My stepmother really didn't like me at all. 24 00:03:40,923 --> 00:03:42,963 I was locked in a room a lot. 25 00:03:43,763 --> 00:03:46,883 I wasn't allowed out, I wasn't allowed to play. 26 00:03:46,963 --> 00:03:49,763 I wasn't allowed to pretty much do anything 27 00:03:49,843 --> 00:03:51,803 except for go to school and back. 28 00:03:54,003 --> 00:03:59,563 That continued pretty much through my childhood. 29 00:04:16,523 --> 00:04:18,523 That's when things got really bad. 30 00:04:22,163 --> 00:04:26,083 I got caught smoking upstairs in my brother's bedroom one day. 31 00:04:31,043 --> 00:04:32,883 My stepmom got mad about it, 32 00:04:32,963 --> 00:04:37,723 so that very night, they pretty much kicked me out the back door 33 00:04:37,803 --> 00:04:39,403 and told me never to come back. 34 00:05:25,683 --> 00:05:28,243 Red Lodge is a ski resort town. 35 00:05:33,163 --> 00:05:35,243 There's a lot of rich people. 36 00:05:38,323 --> 00:05:40,643 The cops, once you're on their radar, 37 00:05:40,723 --> 00:05:44,323 they are on you all the time for the rest of your life. 38 00:05:50,523 --> 00:05:54,163 Because I'm a convicted felon and because of who I was, 39 00:05:54,243 --> 00:05:56,523 nobody would ever hire me. 40 00:06:15,563 --> 00:06:16,643 She was awesome. 41 00:06:18,363 --> 00:06:22,083 She understood what I had been through and she didn't judge me for it. 42 00:06:22,163 --> 00:06:25,243 So it… it felt good for once in my life 43 00:06:25,323 --> 00:06:28,323 to not be judged for, you know, my past. 44 00:06:50,643 --> 00:06:53,563 I'd repair chainsaws. I cut a lot of wood for 'em. 45 00:06:53,643 --> 00:06:55,483 I did a lot of welding for 'em. 46 00:06:58,283 --> 00:07:00,523 And that's where I met Jim. 47 00:07:08,323 --> 00:07:13,163 He was like a small, frail man with a white beard. 48 00:07:17,403 --> 00:07:20,563 He was always smoking his pipe, he always had his pipe on him, 49 00:07:20,643 --> 00:07:22,843 sitting there next to the fire stove. 50 00:07:27,523 --> 00:07:30,563 I guess I would just sit there and listen to his stories. 51 00:07:30,643 --> 00:07:33,123 His, you know, ranching days. 52 00:07:57,443 --> 00:08:00,283 It gets below zero quite a bit in Red Lodge. 53 00:08:06,443 --> 00:08:10,043 Jim's shack didn't have any heat, didn't have any water in it. 54 00:08:18,563 --> 00:08:21,243 He didn't have a place to go to when it was cold. 55 00:08:21,323 --> 00:08:25,163 And so, me and Shilo decided to invite him into our home. 56 00:08:39,443 --> 00:08:41,523 Me and Jim became inseparable. 57 00:08:41,603 --> 00:08:45,163 I mean, everywhere I was, Jim was. Everywhere Jim was, I was. 58 00:08:47,763 --> 00:08:50,403 We went out shooting a lot. 59 00:08:50,923 --> 00:08:54,483 We went fishing a lot. We went and did everything. 60 00:09:00,203 --> 00:09:01,683 He loved the outdoors. 61 00:09:05,203 --> 00:09:08,363 Um, things were good till that-- till awful day. 62 00:09:27,203 --> 00:09:29,203 It was a regular day. 63 00:09:35,243 --> 00:09:38,803 We stop at the store and we buy some beer. 64 00:09:41,843 --> 00:09:43,203 We drive out of town. 65 00:09:46,643 --> 00:09:48,843 We kept driving out of town, and I… 66 00:09:48,923 --> 00:09:51,563 I believe the place was called Bear Tract. 67 00:09:54,323 --> 00:09:55,363 We pulled in. 68 00:09:56,363 --> 00:09:57,523 I got out. 69 00:10:01,123 --> 00:10:04,963 I was kind of like, uh, you know, "The creek's frozen here." 70 00:10:05,043 --> 00:10:06,803 "I don't really want to fish here." 71 00:10:11,163 --> 00:10:16,923 So Jim gets out, and he had his .357 on him. 72 00:10:17,003 --> 00:10:19,563 We just did what we loved to do. We started shooting. 73 00:10:19,643 --> 00:10:21,203 We just started shooting trees. 74 00:10:26,843 --> 00:10:29,003 He tried to twirl it on his fingers. 75 00:10:31,363 --> 00:10:33,563 I told him that he looked like Billy the Kid. 76 00:10:33,643 --> 00:10:35,883 "You look like Billy the Kid with that thing." 77 00:10:40,963 --> 00:10:43,563 He wasn't really twirling it. He was just trying to. 78 00:10:43,643 --> 00:10:46,843 He was trying to make the motions to do it. It was hilarious. 79 00:10:51,843 --> 00:10:54,443 By that time, we were-- We had been drinking all day, 80 00:10:54,523 --> 00:10:57,043 so we were just having a good time, more or less. 81 00:11:01,083 --> 00:11:04,283 I told him, "Let me see the gun. I wanna try it, I wanna try," 82 00:11:04,363 --> 00:11:06,963 and see if I could do what he was doing, you know. 83 00:11:09,763 --> 00:11:15,083 So he handed me the gun, and I remember there was two shots left in it. 84 00:11:20,643 --> 00:11:24,403 And I was gonna try to, you know, twirl it and act like some kind of cowboy, 85 00:11:24,483 --> 00:11:27,163 some Billy the Kid, see if I could do it, you know. 86 00:11:34,043 --> 00:11:38,083 And I remember twirling it forward and the gun went off. 87 00:11:56,163 --> 00:11:58,803 I remember seeing Jim fall to the ground. 88 00:12:06,483 --> 00:12:08,843 And at that point, I was just… 89 00:12:11,883 --> 00:12:15,883 I didn't… I guess I didn't comprehend at the moment what had just happened 90 00:12:15,963 --> 00:12:19,523 because I didn't expect the gun to go off like that. 91 00:12:23,283 --> 00:12:27,883 I remember walking over to Jim, and I grabbed his leg to, you know… 92 00:12:27,963 --> 00:12:32,843 I said, "Jim, get up, stop playing around, stop effing around," and, uh… 93 00:12:38,603 --> 00:12:42,403 I felt how limp his leg was, and I knew that there was something wrong. 94 00:12:43,483 --> 00:12:44,403 And, um… 95 00:12:45,723 --> 00:12:47,603 That's when I saw the blood in the snow. 96 00:12:54,443 --> 00:12:57,203 It felt like my soul had been ripped out of my… 97 00:12:57,283 --> 00:12:59,283 out of my body at that time. 98 00:13:01,203 --> 00:13:04,683 Because I-- I knew Jim wasn't there anymore. 99 00:13:40,643 --> 00:13:44,523 I can't tell you how many times I told them it was an accident that day. 100 00:13:47,563 --> 00:13:53,083 They tried to say that I had Jim on his knees, 101 00:13:53,603 --> 00:13:57,283 and that I had the gun to the back of his head, and then I shot him. 102 00:13:58,643 --> 00:14:03,163 I'm not gonna lie about what happened. You know, I'm not… 103 00:14:03,763 --> 00:14:05,483 I'm not a cold-blooded killer. 104 00:14:12,723 --> 00:14:15,323 I didn't mean for anything to happen. 105 00:14:17,883 --> 00:14:20,643 I kept trying to tell them I never meant to hurt Jim. 106 00:14:24,203 --> 00:14:25,643 It was an accident. 107 00:14:30,843 --> 00:14:32,443 I think about Jim quite a bit. 108 00:14:34,243 --> 00:14:37,563 Uh, he… He was the only friend I really had. 109 00:15:31,323 --> 00:15:35,043 When Jimmy was found deceased, I was torn apart. 110 00:15:36,323 --> 00:15:37,563 My heart was broken. 111 00:15:41,483 --> 00:15:45,363 And to find out that such a gentle soul 112 00:15:45,883 --> 00:15:49,243 was taken in such a violent manner, 113 00:15:49,323 --> 00:15:51,923 it just… it made it hurt that much worse. 114 00:16:03,083 --> 00:16:04,483 I am John Price, 115 00:16:06,163 --> 00:16:09,883 and one of my best friends was Jimmy McGregor. 116 00:16:13,643 --> 00:16:17,603 Whenever I work on a skull like this, I think of Jimmy. 117 00:16:20,563 --> 00:16:25,003 Knowing that he would look down right now and just see how I'm preserving 118 00:16:25,083 --> 00:16:27,563 someone's hunting memories for a lifetime. 119 00:16:31,843 --> 00:16:34,123 Being that this occurred in such a small town, 120 00:16:34,203 --> 00:16:36,283 a lot of rumors went flying around. 121 00:16:37,363 --> 00:16:39,403 People still speculate about it. 122 00:16:39,483 --> 00:16:42,043 People still try to figure out a motive. 123 00:16:43,643 --> 00:16:46,763 This sort of thing just does not happen in Red Lodge. 124 00:16:51,883 --> 00:16:54,203 Jimmy was a kind and gentle man. 125 00:16:54,283 --> 00:16:57,963 Always had a smile, always greeted you with a handshake. 126 00:16:58,643 --> 00:17:02,403 Uh, wanted to know how the family was doing and whether you were doing well. 127 00:17:08,363 --> 00:17:11,563 Jimmy's relationship with money was he had very little. 128 00:17:12,443 --> 00:17:14,803 He pretty much was penniless. 129 00:17:16,443 --> 00:17:19,963 Jimmy and I were talking one afternoon and he had had some assistance 130 00:17:20,043 --> 00:17:21,043 from a local woman 131 00:17:21,123 --> 00:17:23,683 that helped him file for his Social Security. 132 00:17:26,043 --> 00:17:30,123 He realized that he was gonna get one lump sum at the beginning 133 00:17:30,203 --> 00:17:32,043 and then his monthly payment. 134 00:17:34,403 --> 00:17:37,683 We were just so happy for him to finally get to that stage 135 00:17:37,763 --> 00:17:42,043 where he would have a steady income to sustain himself throughout the year. 136 00:17:47,403 --> 00:17:49,603 Red Lodge is a very small town. 137 00:17:49,683 --> 00:17:52,763 So it doesn't take long for word to travel around 138 00:17:52,843 --> 00:17:56,363 that Jimmy was gonna be coming into his Social Security finally. 139 00:18:12,483 --> 00:18:16,243 TJ was very forward with Jimmy 140 00:18:16,323 --> 00:18:18,363 as far as his affections and such. 141 00:18:19,003 --> 00:18:23,123 It was like he had prior motive for building that relationship. 142 00:18:30,283 --> 00:18:35,123 I found out that Jimmy had moved in with TJ and his wife Shilo 143 00:18:35,883 --> 00:18:38,163 and was very concerned. All of us were. 144 00:18:58,643 --> 00:19:00,843 Me and Jim became inseparable. 145 00:19:00,923 --> 00:19:04,483 I mean, everywhere I was, Jim was. Everywhere Jim was, I was. 146 00:19:06,043 --> 00:19:07,923 I think about Jim quite a bit 147 00:19:08,523 --> 00:19:11,523 because he was the only friend I really had. 148 00:19:11,603 --> 00:19:14,243 You know, there wasn't a lot I wouldn't do for that guy. 149 00:19:28,483 --> 00:19:29,723 It's all a lie. 150 00:19:31,923 --> 00:19:35,403 He made out that he and Jimmy were best of friends, 151 00:19:35,483 --> 00:19:37,683 and that was far from the case. 152 00:19:38,683 --> 00:19:42,883 TJ and Jimmy's relationship was a relationship of convenience. 153 00:19:44,043 --> 00:19:48,523 TJ played that part to a tee by taking advantage of Jim. 154 00:20:00,723 --> 00:20:04,323 I had discovered that Jimmy had purchased a truck. 155 00:20:05,843 --> 00:20:09,883 This was alarming because Jimmy did not drive. 156 00:20:10,363 --> 00:20:13,403 So he had no use for the truck. 157 00:20:13,483 --> 00:20:16,003 I feel that he was taken advantage of, 158 00:20:16,083 --> 00:20:21,083 that TJ needed a vehicle and preyed on him. 159 00:20:23,523 --> 00:20:26,443 I think TJ did it strictly for the money. 160 00:20:27,443 --> 00:20:29,003 He knew Jimmy had money, 161 00:20:29,083 --> 00:20:31,003 and killing him 162 00:20:31,083 --> 00:20:34,203 was gonna be the quickest way for him to get all of it at once. 163 00:21:23,363 --> 00:21:24,643 My name is Josh McQuillan. 164 00:21:24,723 --> 00:21:27,403 I am the Carbon County sheriff in Red Lodge, Montana. 165 00:21:32,083 --> 00:21:34,643 So we're heading south out of Red Lodge right now. 166 00:21:34,723 --> 00:21:38,643 This is the area in which we had received a call at dispatch 167 00:21:38,723 --> 00:21:41,323 that Jimmy's truck had been found. 168 00:22:05,963 --> 00:22:10,123 It was very unusual that we found Jimmy's truck all the way down here. 169 00:22:10,763 --> 00:22:15,083 This is an area that is frequented during the summer by campers, 170 00:22:15,603 --> 00:22:17,403 but not so much during the winter time. 171 00:22:20,043 --> 00:22:24,403 At that time, snow down here was well over a foot to 18 inches deep. 172 00:22:24,483 --> 00:22:28,443 And simply put, people just don't come down here when there's that kind of snow. 173 00:22:33,523 --> 00:22:36,803 As we proceeded down here, we could see the truck, 174 00:22:36,883 --> 00:22:39,483 and then we actually found some blood on the ground. 175 00:22:39,563 --> 00:22:42,763 And then drag marks that led us over here to this embankment 176 00:22:42,843 --> 00:22:44,603 that drops down into Rock Creek. 177 00:22:46,163 --> 00:22:51,283 We were able to see Jimmy's body covered in snow laying on his back, 178 00:22:51,363 --> 00:22:54,923 and he had obviously been dragged about halfway down this embankment. 179 00:22:58,243 --> 00:23:01,563 We could clearly see that there was one gunshot wound to the head. 180 00:23:05,123 --> 00:23:07,003 This spot can't be seen from the highway. 181 00:23:07,083 --> 00:23:09,843 So there's a good chance that if we hadn't received that tip 182 00:23:09,923 --> 00:23:12,043 and came down here when we did, 183 00:23:12,123 --> 00:23:14,763 it's unlikely we would have found him until the spring thaw 184 00:23:14,843 --> 00:23:18,203 when this became a more popular area with people. 185 00:23:20,243 --> 00:23:23,963 It was apparent that whoever had done this to Jimmy 186 00:23:24,043 --> 00:23:28,003 had tried to hide his body and had no regard for trying to help him. 187 00:24:01,123 --> 00:24:03,723 What did I do? What did I do? 188 00:24:03,803 --> 00:24:04,843 You played a game. 189 00:24:04,923 --> 00:24:06,603 I'm not-- What did I do? 190 00:24:06,683 --> 00:24:07,603 You killed somebody. 191 00:24:07,683 --> 00:24:08,603 No, I fucking hell… 192 00:24:08,683 --> 00:24:11,563 I don't even have the balls to kill somebody. Are you serious? 193 00:24:11,643 --> 00:24:12,923 Oh, I'm dead serious. 194 00:24:24,683 --> 00:24:29,203 It was an accident. It wasn't supposed to happen like that. 195 00:24:30,363 --> 00:24:33,563 As soon as I cocked back the hammer, the gun went off. 196 00:24:35,083 --> 00:24:36,643 And I saw Jimmy fall. 197 00:24:38,603 --> 00:24:39,763 And it scared me. 198 00:25:06,523 --> 00:25:10,323 You know, I really don't know, uh… what happened that day. 199 00:25:12,283 --> 00:25:14,683 Only TJ and Jimmy know what happened that day. 200 00:25:16,123 --> 00:25:18,243 And I don't want to speculate on that. 201 00:25:21,083 --> 00:25:24,643 I do know that they spent a lot of time together 202 00:25:24,723 --> 00:25:27,803 playing with guns and drinking, and that doesn't mix. 203 00:25:31,243 --> 00:25:35,723 My name is Suzanne Russell, and I am TJ's mother-in-law. 204 00:25:42,363 --> 00:25:43,803 Why would TJ kill Jimmy? 205 00:25:44,803 --> 00:25:45,883 He loved Jimmy. 206 00:25:49,283 --> 00:25:53,883 He always would say, "I love Jimmy." Jimmy was his friend, his best friend. 207 00:25:59,563 --> 00:26:04,963 I went over and seen them maybe a week before this all happened. 208 00:26:05,043 --> 00:26:09,163 Everybody was happy and laughing and getting along just fine. 209 00:26:29,883 --> 00:26:33,603 People in the right frame of mind would probably have called 911 210 00:26:33,683 --> 00:26:35,603 if they shot somebody accidentally. 211 00:26:36,963 --> 00:26:39,643 But TJ was scared to death. 212 00:26:40,843 --> 00:26:42,963 Nobody in Red Lodge liked TJ. 213 00:26:45,363 --> 00:26:50,883 So, I think even if it was an accident, nobody would believe him. 214 00:26:50,963 --> 00:26:52,843 I think he would run scared 215 00:26:53,323 --> 00:26:55,363 because he wasn't in his right frame of mind. 216 00:26:58,083 --> 00:26:59,923 I can understand him doing that. 217 00:27:00,003 --> 00:27:02,563 I'm not justifying it, but I-- 218 00:27:02,643 --> 00:27:04,643 I can see that he would do that, yes. 219 00:27:18,923 --> 00:27:21,483 TJ had a lot of issues growing up. 220 00:27:21,563 --> 00:27:24,643 You know, I don't want to get into a lot of his personal life, 221 00:27:24,723 --> 00:27:27,563 but there was abuse in different areas. 222 00:27:28,283 --> 00:27:29,563 He had it rough. 223 00:27:34,003 --> 00:27:39,083 He's sentimental, he cries over movies. He's gentle, he's kind. 224 00:27:44,843 --> 00:27:46,563 If this had went to trial, 225 00:27:46,643 --> 00:27:48,603 I don't think TJ would have had a prayer 226 00:27:48,683 --> 00:27:53,803 because this is a small community and he was the bad guy. 227 00:27:53,883 --> 00:27:56,163 Nobody cared about TJ. 228 00:27:58,843 --> 00:28:00,803 Jimmy was well-loved in this community. 229 00:28:00,883 --> 00:28:03,563 And TJ, they figured he was just a monster. 230 00:28:20,963 --> 00:28:25,043 People know I'm TJ's mother-in-law and I keep in touch with TJ. 231 00:28:25,803 --> 00:28:28,923 And people say, "You talk to him? Why would you talk to him?" 232 00:28:29,003 --> 00:28:31,363 It's like, "Why wouldn't I talk to him?" 233 00:28:32,363 --> 00:28:35,843 Who does he have to turn to? I'm all he's got right now. 234 00:29:03,563 --> 00:29:05,323 My name is Dave Beuscher. 235 00:29:05,403 --> 00:29:09,723 I'm the owner of AY Supply in Red Lodge, Montana. 236 00:29:12,843 --> 00:29:16,323 I've had many men come and help me, 237 00:29:16,403 --> 00:29:18,003 kind of down-and-out men. 238 00:29:21,843 --> 00:29:26,643 People show up and they're hungry and they need a day's work. 239 00:29:31,163 --> 00:29:36,643 TJ, he was needing work and couldn't find any. 240 00:29:39,483 --> 00:29:41,923 It worked out fairly well at first. 241 00:29:43,203 --> 00:29:45,603 Since TJ was working for me, 242 00:29:45,683 --> 00:29:48,363 I let TJ and his wife Shilo 243 00:29:48,883 --> 00:29:53,483 live in a house that I owned about six miles that way. 244 00:29:54,843 --> 00:29:56,723 I kind of overlooked the fact 245 00:29:56,803 --> 00:29:59,683 that occasionally, they couldn't pay the rent. 246 00:30:04,603 --> 00:30:09,283 Jim was a neighbor that lived a couple of blocks away. 247 00:30:11,883 --> 00:30:13,523 He was a very nice guy. 248 00:30:22,243 --> 00:30:25,363 We had a number of guys hanging out. 249 00:30:28,723 --> 00:30:31,763 TJ and Jim met each other here 250 00:30:31,843 --> 00:30:34,643 and became somewhat of friends. 251 00:30:37,723 --> 00:30:41,683 But another fellow here at, at the shop, 252 00:30:41,763 --> 00:30:46,563 he said to me it was like mixing gasoline and matches. 253 00:30:46,643 --> 00:30:50,003 I guess he thought less of TJ than I did. 254 00:31:44,483 --> 00:31:47,483 Me and Shilo, we were common-law married, I guess, 255 00:31:47,563 --> 00:31:49,923 because we'd lived together for so long. 256 00:31:51,243 --> 00:31:55,003 For a long time, I'd watch these jewelry commercials or whatever, 257 00:31:55,083 --> 00:31:58,043 and I always wanted to get her a real wedding ring. 258 00:31:59,403 --> 00:32:04,283 So I had asked the guy I worked for, Dave at AY Supply, 259 00:32:04,363 --> 00:32:08,643 for some of the money to buy a ring for her, 260 00:32:08,723 --> 00:32:11,363 and he ended up loaning me money. 261 00:32:11,443 --> 00:32:15,003 I don't know exactly how much. A couple thousand, I guess. 262 00:32:16,363 --> 00:32:18,963 This was a few days before all this happened. 263 00:32:22,563 --> 00:32:23,403 Huh. 264 00:32:27,163 --> 00:32:28,403 That's crazy. 265 00:32:30,043 --> 00:32:32,483 I never loaned him two thousand dollars. 266 00:32:34,083 --> 00:32:35,483 Not that I know of. 267 00:32:36,083 --> 00:32:40,843 And certainly not a few days before this crime. 268 00:32:43,243 --> 00:32:45,283 There was no point at, 269 00:32:45,363 --> 00:32:48,683 at which TJ came to me and, with a sob story, 270 00:32:48,763 --> 00:32:53,283 and said, "I need to get Shilo a nice piece of jewelry, a ring." 271 00:32:53,363 --> 00:32:55,803 He, he never said that to me. 272 00:32:55,883 --> 00:32:59,723 That just didn't happen. He didn't borrow 2,000 bucks from me. 273 00:33:01,083 --> 00:33:04,603 And-- And my gosh, I wouldn't trust TJ with it. 274 00:33:05,203 --> 00:33:09,483 I knew him well enough that I didn't need to be giving him any money, 275 00:33:10,203 --> 00:33:13,523 ring or no ring for his wife. 276 00:33:53,043 --> 00:33:55,083 I remember twirling it forward, 277 00:33:55,163 --> 00:33:57,723 and my thumb had caught the hammer on it. 278 00:33:57,803 --> 00:34:00,283 And when the gun started coming back, 279 00:34:00,363 --> 00:34:05,563 my first instinct was to push my finger down, and the gun went off. 280 00:34:05,643 --> 00:34:07,923 And it was so loud, it scared me. 281 00:34:08,483 --> 00:34:11,163 And I remember seeing Jim fall to the ground. 282 00:34:12,083 --> 00:34:14,763 And, at that point, I was just… I didn't… 283 00:34:14,843 --> 00:34:18,163 I guess I didn't comprehend at the moment what had just happened 284 00:34:18,243 --> 00:34:21,843 because I didn't expect the gun to go off like that. 285 00:34:24,283 --> 00:34:29,883 Am I guilty for killing somebody? Yes, absolutely. I did. 286 00:34:30,403 --> 00:34:35,523 Am I guilty of deliberate homicide for intentionally killing somebody 287 00:34:35,603 --> 00:34:38,883 and premeditated killing my best friend? Absolutely not. 288 00:34:45,643 --> 00:34:48,443 What TJ just said is basically nonsense. 289 00:34:48,963 --> 00:34:50,803 I don't know why TJ won't admit 290 00:34:52,363 --> 00:34:54,043 to what actually happened that day. 291 00:35:00,323 --> 00:35:02,323 So, this is… This is the murder weapon. 292 00:35:04,363 --> 00:35:07,563 So, what you can see, that is a… the .357. 293 00:35:08,803 --> 00:35:11,243 King Cobra revolver. 294 00:35:15,483 --> 00:35:17,083 This is a pretty heavy gun. 295 00:35:18,403 --> 00:35:21,843 Then TJ talks about, while he's twirling it on his finger, 296 00:35:21,923 --> 00:35:24,603 he accidentally pulls this back 297 00:35:24,683 --> 00:35:28,843 And you can see, this requires pressure to pull this back. 298 00:35:28,923 --> 00:35:31,283 A true effort to do that. 299 00:35:31,803 --> 00:35:34,363 While at the same time, pulling the trigger. 300 00:35:35,683 --> 00:35:36,643 Um… 301 00:35:36,723 --> 00:35:41,003 You know, just, even doing this right now, this is not something you accidentally do. 302 00:35:41,723 --> 00:35:42,563 Um… 303 00:35:42,643 --> 00:35:43,843 That's a deliberate act. 304 00:35:43,923 --> 00:35:46,963 And Jimmy just happens to be right in front of him. 305 00:35:47,523 --> 00:35:51,683 And if you look at the autopsy photo, it can show the trajectory of the bullet, 306 00:35:51,763 --> 00:35:52,963 and it's a straight shot. 307 00:35:53,043 --> 00:35:56,003 The bullet goes basically level with him, 308 00:35:56,083 --> 00:35:59,163 enters and exits his head in that, in that line. 309 00:35:59,883 --> 00:36:02,763 So, I don't believe TJ, and I don't think it's 310 00:36:03,883 --> 00:36:06,683 even remotely possible that that's what happened. 311 00:36:39,843 --> 00:36:42,563 This was a strong case from the very beginning. 312 00:36:43,723 --> 00:36:46,563 And certainly, we were ready to go to trial 313 00:36:46,643 --> 00:36:49,723 when, uh, we learned that he was ready to change his plea. 314 00:36:53,523 --> 00:36:54,643 What would somebody do 315 00:36:54,723 --> 00:36:57,443 if they did accidentally shoot their friend through the head? 316 00:36:58,563 --> 00:37:02,323 Are you going to try to call law enforcement or medical aid? 317 00:37:03,123 --> 00:37:05,443 Or do you take his money? 318 00:37:05,523 --> 00:37:09,163 Do you drag his body down to the creek where it's going to be harder to find? 319 00:37:11,043 --> 00:37:13,723 There's nothing that he does that is consistent 320 00:37:13,803 --> 00:37:17,323 with any sort of concern for the, uh, the well-being of his friend. 321 00:37:22,123 --> 00:37:23,203 My name is Alex Nixon. 322 00:37:23,283 --> 00:37:26,083 I'm the Carbon County attorney in Red Lodge, Montana. 323 00:37:33,763 --> 00:37:37,843 It's pretty hard to believe that, uh, this was anything but a homicide, 324 00:37:37,923 --> 00:37:40,803 and we were very confident that we could get a conviction. 325 00:37:41,403 --> 00:37:46,803 We had an actual first-hand admission of what happened that evening. 326 00:38:05,443 --> 00:38:09,123 TJ tells Kristen that he had killed the man 327 00:38:09,763 --> 00:38:12,283 because he was homeless and disrespectful. 328 00:38:14,403 --> 00:38:16,603 She said that he, he begged for his life. 329 00:38:30,323 --> 00:38:33,603 She said that, uh, TJ described dragging the body, uh, 330 00:38:33,683 --> 00:38:35,363 where it would be harder to find. 331 00:38:39,083 --> 00:38:40,003 It was a big deal 332 00:38:40,083 --> 00:38:44,923 because here you have a description of not a person who was sorry or sympathetic 333 00:38:45,003 --> 00:38:48,123 because he had just killed his so-called best friend. 334 00:38:48,203 --> 00:38:52,203 What you have is somebody who is angry who felt like he was a victim, 335 00:38:52,283 --> 00:38:53,963 that he was being disrespected. 336 00:38:54,043 --> 00:38:56,483 He wasn't being properly appreciated. 337 00:38:59,003 --> 00:39:01,243 What you heard about was 338 00:39:01,323 --> 00:39:05,123 somebody describing a, a brutal, cold-blooded homicide. 339 00:39:06,803 --> 00:39:09,883 It was anything but the story of an accidental killing. 340 00:39:22,963 --> 00:39:25,163 It made me really sound like a monster. 341 00:39:25,683 --> 00:39:30,603 They tried to say that I had Jim on his knees, 342 00:39:31,323 --> 00:39:33,483 and then I had a gun to the back of his head, 343 00:39:33,563 --> 00:39:35,123 and then I shot him, 344 00:39:35,203 --> 00:39:38,043 which is not even close to the truth. 345 00:39:44,323 --> 00:39:47,323 Listening to this, it seems that, uh… 346 00:39:47,403 --> 00:39:52,563 TJ was, uh, trying to say that the narrative of Jimmy being on his knees 347 00:39:52,643 --> 00:39:55,883 was one that was created by investigators, uh, 348 00:39:55,963 --> 00:39:59,403 when, in fact, we have him to blame for that story. 349 00:39:59,483 --> 00:40:01,603 That is the story he told Kristen. 350 00:40:05,483 --> 00:40:09,603 What the final, uh, motivator was for TJ to kill Jimmy, I don't know. 351 00:40:13,443 --> 00:40:18,403 What was most important was there was no doubt that TJ killed Jimmy. 352 00:40:19,603 --> 00:40:22,803 It was just a matter of which, which story you wanted to believe. 353 00:40:23,323 --> 00:40:28,523 At the end of the day, TJ wants you to believe he's not a murderer, 354 00:40:28,603 --> 00:40:30,483 he's just a really shitty friend. 355 00:41:08,283 --> 00:41:12,923 I don't know how… I don't know how to defend myself anymore. 356 00:41:13,003 --> 00:41:15,723 I don't know what to say to convince people. 357 00:41:20,083 --> 00:41:23,603 If I would have kept my mouth shut, denied the whole thing, and lied about it, 358 00:41:23,683 --> 00:41:25,603 I probably wouldn't be sitting here today. 359 00:41:31,323 --> 00:41:35,963 Yeah, I didn't go to the cops at the, at the beginning. I was terrified. 360 00:41:36,043 --> 00:41:37,803 I just took somebody's life. 361 00:41:38,883 --> 00:41:43,923 You know, put yourself in my shoes during that 30 seconds. Two seconds. 362 00:41:45,763 --> 00:41:50,243 You know, that fraction of a second changed the course of many people's lives. 363 00:41:52,003 --> 00:41:55,403 I do understand why there's a lot of people that don't trust me 364 00:41:55,483 --> 00:41:57,203 or don't believe anything that I say. 365 00:41:57,283 --> 00:41:58,643 I do understand that. 366 00:41:59,163 --> 00:42:01,123 And there's no way that I can fix that. 367 00:42:01,803 --> 00:42:05,283 There's no way that I can fix that. You know. 368 00:42:17,203 --> 00:42:19,483 So this is, this is the murder weapon. 369 00:42:20,243 --> 00:42:23,763 And TJ talks about, while he's twirling it on his finger, 370 00:42:23,843 --> 00:42:26,123 he accidentally pulls this back. 371 00:42:26,763 --> 00:42:27,923 This requires pressure, 372 00:42:28,003 --> 00:42:30,603 while at the same time, pulling the trigger. 373 00:42:31,363 --> 00:42:34,603 It's not something you accidentally do. That's a deliberate act. 374 00:42:36,083 --> 00:42:38,283 Well, whatever, I guess. 375 00:42:39,763 --> 00:42:40,803 Whatever. 376 00:42:44,443 --> 00:42:48,083 He's saying, "It takes a lot of pressure." It don't take a lot of pressure. 377 00:42:48,163 --> 00:42:51,963 I've shot that gun many, many, many hundreds of times. 378 00:42:52,043 --> 00:42:53,883 That very same gun I've shot. 379 00:42:53,963 --> 00:42:56,243 Me and Jimmy went shooting all the time. 380 00:42:57,723 --> 00:43:00,443 It's quite compelling seeing the sheriff 381 00:43:00,523 --> 00:43:02,803 show how hard it is to pull that trigger back. 382 00:43:02,883 --> 00:43:04,643 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I imagine. 383 00:43:04,723 --> 00:43:07,563 And I imagine he put on a good act and tried… 384 00:43:07,643 --> 00:43:11,883 and made it look like it was, uh, quite a bit harder than it actually is. 385 00:43:11,963 --> 00:43:13,763 Because it's not really that hard. 386 00:43:16,363 --> 00:43:18,243 He's trying to make it sound like 387 00:43:18,723 --> 00:43:19,803 it's, it's… 388 00:43:19,883 --> 00:43:21,483 "There's only one way that this is, 389 00:43:21,563 --> 00:43:23,523 and this is the way it could have happened." 390 00:43:23,603 --> 00:43:25,163 That's a lie. It's a lie. 391 00:43:28,563 --> 00:43:30,403 I don't care what people think. 392 00:43:31,203 --> 00:43:33,403 You know, I was there, I know happened. 393 00:43:34,643 --> 00:43:38,403 You know, I never intentionally intended to hurt anybody. 394 00:43:38,483 --> 00:43:41,363 Never have and never will. I'm just not that person. 395 00:43:42,483 --> 00:43:45,563 So everybody that's saying otherwise is wrong? 396 00:43:45,643 --> 00:43:47,003 They're dead wrong. 397 00:43:47,083 --> 00:43:48,123 They're liars. 398 00:43:48,203 --> 00:43:51,443 I'd love to tell them to their face, "You're lying. You're a liar." 399 00:43:51,923 --> 00:43:55,083 What do I have to lose? I got a life sentence. 400 00:43:56,883 --> 00:44:00,803 I killed a man. That man was my best friend. 401 00:44:01,523 --> 00:44:03,723 And I'm sorry. I'm very sorry. 402 00:44:03,803 --> 00:44:06,643 There's no words to say how sorry I am for what happened.