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[eerie discordant music plays]
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[sheriff] Red Lodge, Montana
is a very close-knit community.
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Everybody knows everybody.
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This homicide,
everybody was talking about it.
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00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:46,240
And everybody had their own theories
on why it happened and what had happened.
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[man] I remember the first time
when I went to court.
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They all looked at me differently,
like I was a...
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like I was a monster.
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I kept trying to tell them
I never meant for anything to happen.
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I'm not a cold-blooded killer.
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There was no, in any way, shape or form,
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any intention
of hurting my best friend ever,
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ever, ever.
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[cryptic music plays]
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[eerie discordant music plays]
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- Are we good to go?
- [interviewer] We're good to go.
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[man] Okay.
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My name is Thomas Schifferns.
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I'm 37 years old.
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I'm currently imprisoned
in Shelby, Montana
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for the death of my best friend.
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[somber melodic music plays]
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I was born in 1984
in Kern County, California.
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When I was four years old,
my parents divorced.
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My dad got remarried to my stepmother.
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Life got really hard for me.
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My stepmother
really didn't like me at all.
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I was locked in a room a lot.
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I wasn't allowed out,
I wasn't allowed to play.
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I wasn't allowed
to pretty much do anything
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except for go to school and back.
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That continued pretty much
through my childhood.
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[birds chirping]
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[traffic passing]
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That's when things got really bad.
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I got caught smoking upstairs
in my brother's bedroom one day.
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My stepmom got mad about it,
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so that very night, they pretty much
kicked me out the back door
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and told me never to come back.
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[eerie discordant music plays]
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[music intensifies]
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[gate slams]
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Red Lodge is a ski resort town.
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There's a lot of rich people.
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The cops, once you're on their radar,
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they are on you all the time
for the rest of your life.
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Because I'm a convicted felon
and because of who I was,
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nobody would ever hire me.
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[somber melodic music plays]
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She was awesome.
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She understood what I had been through
and she didn't judge me for it.
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So it... it felt good for once in my life
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to not be judged for, you know, my past.
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I'd repair chainsaws.
I cut a lot of wood for 'em.
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I did a lot of welding for 'em.
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And that's where I met Jim.
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[melodic guitar music plays]
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He was like a small, frail man
with a white beard.
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He was always smoking his pipe,
he always had his pipe on him,
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sitting there next to the fire stove.
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I guess I would just sit there
and listen to his stories.
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His, you know, ranching days.
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[winds howling]
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It gets below zero quite a bit
in Red Lodge.
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[somber melodic music plays]
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Jim's shack didn't have any heat,
didn't have any water in it.
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He didn't have a place to go to
when it was cold.
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And so, me and Shilo
decided to invite him into our home.
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Me and Jim became inseparable.
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I mean, everywhere I was, Jim was.
Everywhere Jim was, I was.
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We went out shooting a lot.
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We went fishing a lot.
We went and did everything.
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He loved the outdoors.
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Um, things were good till that...
till awful day.
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[wind howls]
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[dog barks]
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It was a regular day.
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[eerie discordant music plays]
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We stop at the store
and we buy some beer.
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We drive out of town.
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We kept driving out of town, and I...
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I believe the place was called Bear Tract.
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We pulled in.
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I got out.
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00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,920
I was kind of like, uh, you know,
"The creek's frozen here."
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00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,760
"I don't really want to fish here."
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So Jim gets out,
and he had his .357 on him.
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We just did what we loved to do.
We started shooting.
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We just started shooting trees.
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He tried to twirl it on his fingers.
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I told him that he looked like
Billy the Kid.
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"You look like Billy the Kid
with that thing."
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He wasn't really twirling it.
He was just trying to.
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He was trying to make the motions
to do it. It was hilarious.
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By that time, we were...
We had been drinking all day,
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so we were just having a good time,
more or less.
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I told him, "Let me see the gun.
I wanna try it, I wanna try,"
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and see if I could do
what he was doing, you know.
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So he handed me the gun, and I remember
there was two shots left in it.
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00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,360
And I was gonna try to, you know, twirl it
and act like some kind of cowboy,
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some Billy the Kid,
see if I could do it, you know.
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[grim instrumental music plays]
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And I remember twirling it forward
and the gun went off.
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[gunshot echoes]
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[birds chirping]
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I remember seeing Jim fall to the ground.
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00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,800
And at that point, I was just...
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[music intensifies]
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I didn't... I guess I didn't comprehend
at the moment what had just happened
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because I didn't expect
the gun to go off like that.
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I remember walking over to Jim,
and I grabbed his leg to, you know...
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I said, "Jim, get up, stop playing around,
stop effing around," and, uh...
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[sniffles]
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[sighs]
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I felt how limp his leg was,
and I knew that there was something wrong.
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And, um...
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That's when I saw the blood in the snow.
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It felt like my soul
had been ripped out of my...
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out of my body at that time.
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Because I...
I knew Jim wasn't there anymore.
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[sniffles]
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[wind howling]
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[grim instrumental music plays]
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I can't tell you how many times
I told them it was an accident that day.
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They tried to say
that I had Jim on his knees,
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and that I had the gun to the back
of his head, and then I shot him.
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I'm not gonna lie about what happened.
You know, I'm not...
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00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,440
I'm not a cold-blooded killer.
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00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,600
[music intensifies]
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I didn't mean for anything to happen.
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00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,600
I kept trying to tell them
I never meant to hurt Jim.
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It was an accident.
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I think about Jim quite a bit.
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Uh, he... He was the only friend
I really had.
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[somber melodic music plays]
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[dog barking]
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00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,000
[man] When Jimmy was found deceased,
I was torn apart.
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00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:37,520
My heart was broken.
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And to find out that such a gentle soul
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was taken in such a violent manner,
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it just... it made it hurt that much worse.
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00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:04,440
I am John Price,
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and one of my best friends
was Jimmy McGregor.
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00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,560
Whenever I work on a skull like this,
I think of Jimmy.
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00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,960
Knowing that he would look down right now
and just see how I'm preserving
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00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,520
someone's hunting memories for a lifetime.
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00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,080
Being that this occurred
in such a small town,
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00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,240
a lot of rumors went flying around.
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People still speculate about it.
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00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,000
People still try to figure out a motive.
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00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,720
This sort of thing
just does not happen in Red Lodge.
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00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,160
Jimmy was a kind and gentle man.
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Always had a smile,
always greeted you with a handshake.
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Uh, wanted to know how the family
was doing and whether you were doing well.
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00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,280
[birds chirping]
156
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,520
Jimmy's relationship with money
was he had very little.
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00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,760
He pretty much was penniless.
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00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,920
Jimmy and I were talking one afternoon
and he had had some assistance
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from a local woman
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00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,640
that helped him file
for his Social Security.
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00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,080
He realized that he was gonna get
one lump sum at the beginning
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00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,000
and then his monthly payment.
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00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,640
We were just so happy for him
to finally get to that stage
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00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,000
where he would have a steady income
to sustain himself throughout the year.
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Red Lodge is a very small town.
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So it doesn't take long
for word to travel around
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00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,320
that Jimmy was gonna be coming
into his Social Security finally.
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00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,040
[eerie discordant music plays]
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TJ was very forward with Jimmy
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as far as his affections and such.
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00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,080
It was like he had prior motive
for building that relationship.
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00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,160
[music intensifies]
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00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:35,080
I found out that Jimmy
had moved in with TJ and his wife Shilo
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and was very concerned. All of us were.
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[bird squawking]
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[TJ] Me and Jim became inseparable.
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00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,440
I mean, everywhere I was, Jim was.
Everywhere Jim was, I was.
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00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,880
I think about Jim quite a bit
179
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,480
because he was the only friend
I really had.
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00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,200
You know, there wasn't a lot
I wouldn't do for that guy.
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It's all a lie.
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He made out
that he and Jimmy were best of friends,
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00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,640
and that was far from the case.
184
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,840
TJ and Jimmy's relationship
was a relationship of convenience.
185
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,480
TJ played that part to a tee
by taking advantage of Jim.
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00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:55,640
[music intensifies]
187
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,280
I had discovered
that Jimmy had purchased a truck.
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00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,840
This was alarming
because Jimmy did not drive.
189
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,360
So he had no use for the truck.
190
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,960
I feel that he was taken advantage of,
191
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,040
that TJ needed a vehicle
and preyed on him.
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00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,400
I think TJ did it strictly for the money.
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00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,960
He knew Jimmy had money,
194
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,960
and killing him
195
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,160
was gonna be the quickest way
for him to get all of it at once.
196
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,160
[eerie discordant music plays]
197
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:24,600
My name is Josh McQuillan.
198
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,360
I am the Carbon County sheriff
in Red Lodge, Montana.
199
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,600
So we're heading south
out of Red Lodge right now.
200
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,600
This is the area in which
we had received a call at dispatch
201
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,280
that Jimmy's truck had been found.
202
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,560
[music intensifies]
203
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,840
[cryptic music plays]
204
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,080
It was very unusual that we found
Jimmy's truck all the way down here.
205
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,040
This is an area that is frequented
during the summer by campers,
206
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,360
but not so much during the winter time.
207
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,360
At that time, snow down here was
well over a foot to 18 inches deep.
208
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,400
And simply put, people just don't come
down here when there's that kind of snow.
209
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,760
As we proceeded down here,
we could see the truck,
210
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,440
and then we actually found
some blood on the ground.
211
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,720
And then drag marks
that led us over here to this embankment
212
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,560
that drops down into Rock Creek.
213
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:51,240
We were able to see Jimmy's body
covered in snow laying on his back,
214
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,880
and he had obviously been dragged
about halfway down this embankment.
215
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,520
We could clearly see that there was
one gunshot wound to the head.
216
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,960
This spot can't be seen from the highway.
217
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,800
So there's a good chance
that if we hadn't received that tip
218
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,000
and came down here when we did,
219
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,720
it's unlikely we would have found him
until the spring thaw
220
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,160
when this became a more popular area
with people.
221
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,920
It was apparent
that whoever had done this to Jimmy
222
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,960
had tried to hide his body
and had no regard for trying to help him.
223
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,840
[birds chirping]
224
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,920
[wind howls]
225
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,640
[grim instrumental music plays]
226
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,680
What did I do? What did I do?
227
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:04,800
You played a game.
228
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,560
I'm not... What did I do?
229
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:07,560
You killed somebody.
230
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:08,560
No, I fucking hell...
231
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,520
I don't even have the balls
to kill somebody. Are you serious?
232
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,880
Oh, I'm dead serious.
233
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,560
[music intensifies]
234
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,160
It was an accident.
It wasn't supposed to happen like that.
235
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,520
As soon as I cocked back the hammer,
the gun went off.
236
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,600
And I saw Jimmy fall.
237
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,720
And it scared me.
238
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,680
[eerie melodic music plays]
239
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,280
[woman]You know, I really don't know, uh...
what happened that day.
240
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,640
Only TJ and Jimmy know
what happened that day.
241
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,200
And I don't want to speculate on that.
242
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,600
I do know that they spent
a lot of time together
243
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,760
playing with guns and drinking,
and that doesn't mix.
244
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,680
My name is Suzanne Russell,
and I am TJ's mother-in-law.
245
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,240
[somber guitar music plays]
246
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,760
Why would TJ kill Jimmy?
247
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:45,840
He loved Jimmy.
248
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,840
He always would say, "I love Jimmy."
Jimmy was his friend, his best friend.
249
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,920
I went over and seen them
maybe a week before this all happened.
250
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,120
Everybody was happy and laughing
and getting along just fine.
251
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,440
[eerie discordant music plays]
252
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,560
People in the right frame of mind
would probably have called 911
253
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,560
if they shot somebody accidentally.
254
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,600
But TJ was scared to death.
255
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:40,720
[inhales]
256
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,920
Nobody in Red Lodge liked TJ.
257
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,840
So, I think even if it was an accident,
nobody would believe him.
258
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,800
I think he would run scared
259
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,320
because he wasn't
in his right frame of mind.
260
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,880
I can understand him doing that.
261
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:02,520
I'm not justifying it, but I...
262
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,600
I can see that he would do that, yes.
263
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,440
TJ had a lot of issues growing up.
264
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,600
You know, I don't want to get
into a lot of his personal life,
265
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,520
but there was abuse in different areas.
266
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,520
He had it rough.
267
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:39,040
He's sentimental, he cries over movies.
He's gentle, he's kind.
268
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,520
If this had went to trial,
269
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,560
I don't think TJ would have had a prayer
270
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,760
because this is a small community
and he was the bad guy.
271
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,120
Nobody cared about TJ.
272
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,760
Jimmy was well-loved in this community.
273
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,520
And TJ, they figured
he was just a monster.
274
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,280
[somber melodic music plays]
275
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,000
People know I'm TJ's mother-in-law
and I keep in touch with TJ.
276
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,880
And people say, "You talk to him?
Why would you talk to him?"
277
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,320
It's like, "Why wouldn't I talk to him?"
278
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,800
Who does he have to turn to?
I'm all he's got right now.
279
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,280
My name is Dave Beuscher.
280
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,680
I'm the owner of AY Supply
in Red Lodge, Montana.
281
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,280
I've had many men come and help me,
282
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,960
kind of down-and-out men.
283
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,600
People show up and they're hungry
and they need a day's work.
284
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,600
TJ, he was needing work
and couldn't find any.
285
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,880
It worked out fairly well at first.
286
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,560
Since TJ was working for me,
287
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,320
I let TJ and his wife Shilo
288
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,440
live in a house that I owned
about six miles that way.
289
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,680
I kind of overlooked the fact
290
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,640
that occasionally,
they couldn't pay the rent.
291
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,240
Jim was a neighbor
that lived a couple of blocks away.
292
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,480
He was a very nice guy.
293
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,320
We had a number of guys hanging out.
294
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,720
TJ and Jim met each other here
295
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,600
and became somewhat of friends.
296
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,640
But another fellow here at, at the shop,
297
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,520
he said to me
it was like mixing gasoline and matches.
298
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,960
I guess he thought less of TJ than I did.
299
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,160
[eerie discordant music plays]
300
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,440
[TJ] Me and Shilo, we were
common-law married, I guess,
301
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,880
because we'd lived together for so long.
302
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,960
For a long time, I'd watch these jewelry
commercials or whatever,
303
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,000
and I always wanted to get her
a real wedding ring.
304
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,240
So I had asked the guy I worked for,
Dave at AY Supply,
305
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,600
for some of the money
to buy a ring for her,
306
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,320
and he ended up loaning me money.
307
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,960
I don't know exactly how much.
A couple thousand, I guess.
308
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,920
This was a few days
before all this happened.
309
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:23,520
Huh.
310
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,480
[chuckles]
311
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,360
That's crazy.
312
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,440
I never loaned him two thousand dollars.
313
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,440
Not that I know of.
314
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,800
And certainly not
a few days before this crime.
315
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,240
There was no point at,
316
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,640
at which TJ came to me and,
with a sob story,
317
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,240
and said, "I need to get Shilo
a nice piece of jewelry, a ring."
318
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,760
He, he never said that to me.
319
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,680
That just didn't happen.
He didn't borrow 2,000 bucks from me.
320
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,560
And... And my gosh,
I wouldn't trust TJ with it.
321
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,440
I knew him well enough that I didn't need
to be giving him any money,
322
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,480
ring or no ring for his wife.
323
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,880
[wind howls]
324
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,480
[grim instrumental music plays]
325
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,040
[TJ] I remember twirling it forward,
326
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,680
and my thumb had caught the hammer on it.
327
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,240
And when the gun started coming back,
328
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,520
my first instinct was to push
my finger down, and the gun went off.
329
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,880
And it was so loud, it scared me.
330
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,120
And I remember seeing Jim
fall to the ground.
331
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,720
And, at that point, I was just... I didn't...
332
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,120
I guess I didn't comprehend at the moment
what had just happened
333
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,800
because I didn't expect the gun
to go off like that.
334
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:29,840
Am I guilty for killing somebody?
Yes, absolutely. I did.
335
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:35,480
Am I guilty of deliberate homicide
for intentionally killing somebody
336
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,840
and premeditated killing my best friend?
Absolutely not.
337
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,400
[Josh] What TJ just said
is basically nonsense.
338
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,760
I don't know why TJ won't admit
339
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,000
to what actually happened that day.
340
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,280
So, this is... This is the murder weapon.
341
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,520
So, what you can see, that is a... the .357.
342
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,200
King Cobra revolver.
343
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,040
This is a pretty heavy gun.
344
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,800
Then TJ talks about,
while he's twirling it on his finger,
345
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,560
he accidentally pulls this back
346
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,800
And you can see,
this requires pressure to pull this back.
347
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,240
A true effort to do that.
348
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,320
While at the same time,
pulling the trigger.
349
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:36,640
Um...
350
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,960
You know, just, even doing this right now,
this is not something you accidentally do.
351
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:42,520
Um...
352
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:43,800
That's a deliberate act.
353
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,920
And Jimmy just happens to be
right in front of him.
354
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,640
And if you look at the autopsy photo,
it can show the trajectory of the bullet,
355
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:52,920
and it's a straight shot.
356
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,960
The bullet goes basically level with him,
357
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,120
enters and exits his head in that,
in that line.
358
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,720
So, I don't believe TJ,
and I don't think it's
359
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,640
even remotely possible
that that's what happened.
360
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,080
[somber instrumental music plays]
361
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,200
[cryptic melodic music plays]
362
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,520
[man] This was a strong case
from the very beginning.
363
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,520
And certainly,
we were ready to go to trial
364
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,680
when, uh, we learned that he was ready
to change his plea.
365
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,600
What would somebody do
366
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,400
if they did accidentally
shoot their friend through the head?
367
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,280
Are you going to try to call
law enforcement or medical aid?
368
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,400
Or do you take his money?
369
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,120
Do you drag his body down to the creek
where it's going to be harder to find?
370
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,680
There's nothing that he does
that is consistent
371
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,280
with any sort of concern
for the, uh, the well-being of his friend.
372
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,160
My name is Alex Nixon.
373
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:26,040
I'm the Carbon County attorney
in Red Lodge, Montana.
374
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,800
It's pretty hard to believe that, uh,
this was anything but a homicide,
375
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,760
and we were very confident
that we could get a conviction.
376
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:46,760
We had an actual first-hand admission
of what happened that evening.
377
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,800
[eerie discordant music plays]
378
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,080
TJ tells Kristen
that he had killed the man
379
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,240
because he was homeless and disrespectful.
380
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,560
She said that he, he begged for his life.
381
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,560
She said that, uh, TJ described
dragging the body, uh,
382
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,320
where it would be harder to find.
383
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:39,960
It was a big deal
384
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,880
because here you have a description of not
a person who was sorry or sympathetic
385
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,080
because he had just killed
his so-called best friend.
386
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,160
What you have is somebody who is angry
who felt like he was a victim,
387
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:53,920
that he was being disrespected.
388
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,440
He wasn't being properly appreciated.
389
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,200
What you heard about was
390
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,080
somebody describing a,
a brutal, cold-blooded homicide.
391
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,840
It was anything
but the story of an accidental killing.
392
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,120
[TJ] It made me really sound like
a monster.
393
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,560
They tried to say
that I had Jim on his knees,
394
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,440
and then I had a gun
to the back of his head,
395
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,080
and then I shot him,
396
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,000
which is not even close to the truth.
397
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:43,760
[sighs]
398
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,280
[Alex] Listening to this,
it seems that, uh...
399
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:52,520
TJ was, uh, trying to say that
the narrative of Jimmy being on his knees
400
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,840
was one that was
created by investigators, uh,
401
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,360
when, in fact, we have him to blame
for that story.
402
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,560
That is the story he told Kristen.
403
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,360
[somber melodic music plays]
404
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,560
What the final, uh, motivator was
for TJ to kill Jimmy, I don't know.
405
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,360
What was most important was
there was no doubt that TJ killed Jimmy.
406
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,760
It was just a matter of which,
which story you wanted to believe.
407
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:28,480
At the end of the day, TJ wants you
to believe he's not a murderer,
408
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,440
he's just a really shitty friend.
409
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,800
[ominous music plays]
410
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,320
[birds chirping]
411
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:12,880
[TJ] I don't know how...
I don't know how to defend myself anymore.
412
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,680
I don't know what to say
to convince people.
413
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,560
If I would have kept my mouth shut,
denied the whole thing, and lied about it,
414
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,560
I probably wouldn't be sitting here today.
415
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,920
Yeah, I didn't go to the cops at the,
at the beginning. I was terrified.
416
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,760
I just took somebody's life.
417
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:43,880
You know, put yourself in my shoes
during that 30 seconds. Two seconds.
418
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:50,200
You know, that fraction of a second
changed the course of many people's lives.
419
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,360
I do understand why there's
a lot of people that don't trust me
420
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,160
or don't believe anything that I say.
421
00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:58,600
I do understand that.
422
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,080
And there's no way that I can fix that.
423
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,240
There's no way that I can fix that.
You know.
424
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,440
[Josh] So this is,
this is the murder weapon.
425
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,720
And TJ talks about,
while he's twirling it on his finger,
426
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,080
he accidentally pulls this back.
427
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:27,880
This requires pressure,
428
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,560
while at the same time,
pulling the trigger.
429
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,560
It's not something you accidentally do.
That's a deliberate act.
430
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,240
Well, whatever, I guess.
431
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:39,640
[laughs]
432
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:40,760
Whatever.
433
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,040
He's saying, "It takes a lot of pressure."
It don't take a lot of pressure.
434
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,920
I've shot that gun many, many,
many hundreds of times.
435
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,840
That very same gun I've shot.
436
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,200
Me and Jimmy went shooting all the time.
437
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,400
[interviewer] It's quite compelling
seeing the sheriff
438
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,760
show how hard it is
to pull that trigger back.
439
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,600
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I imagine.
440
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,520
[stammers] And I imagine he put on
a good act and tried...
441
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,840
and made it look like it was, uh,
quite a bit harder than it actually is.
442
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,720
Because it's not really that hard.
443
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,200
He's trying to make it sound like
444
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:19,760
it's, it's...
445
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,440
"There's only one way that this is,
446
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,480
and this is the way
it could have happened."
447
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,120
That's a lie. It's a lie.
448
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,360
I don't care what people think.
449
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,360
You know, I was there, I know happened.
450
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,360
You know, I never intentionally
intended to hurt anybody.
451
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,320
Never have and never will.
I'm just not that person.
452
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,520
[interviewer] So everybody
that's saying otherwise is wrong?
453
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,960
They're dead wrong.
454
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,080
They're liars.
455
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,400
I'd love to tell them to their face,
"You're lying. You're a liar."
456
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,040
What do I have to lose?
I got a life sentence.
457
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,760
I killed a man.
That man was my best friend.
458
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,680
And I'm sorry. I'm very sorry.
459
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,600
There's no words to say how sorry I am
for what happened.
460
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,320
[eerie discordant music plays]