1 00:00:01,190 --> 00:00:02,982 WOMAN: This treasure trove of files was going 2 00:00:03,065 --> 00:00:04,774 to be handed to Michelle. 3 00:00:05,565 --> 00:00:07,607 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 4 00:00:07,691 --> 00:00:10,607 MICHELLE MCNAMARA: In Visalia, there was this ransacker 5 00:00:11,065 --> 00:00:13,732 who totally mirrors the East Area Rapist. 6 00:00:13,816 --> 00:00:16,315 WOMAN 2: That type of behavior, I do think, 7 00:00:16,399 --> 00:00:18,357 could have led to his real fantasy, 8 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:19,524 which was rape. 9 00:00:19,816 --> 00:00:21,816 It's like he got to the emotional center 10 00:00:21,899 --> 00:00:25,649 of people's lives. And just wanted to destroy that. 11 00:00:25,982 --> 00:00:27,691 PATTON OSWALT: She was still very much a mom, 12 00:00:27,774 --> 00:00:30,315 and a wife, and a friend. But it was clear 13 00:00:30,399 --> 00:00:33,065 that she had a real shot at solving this. 14 00:00:36,107 --> 00:00:38,148 That can really pull you into some depths 15 00:00:38,232 --> 00:00:39,607 that you can't get out of. 16 00:01:04,524 --> 00:01:07,524 MARY RITA SKRINE: I'll never forget, I was driving home, 17 00:01:07,607 --> 00:01:10,649 and I remember Patton calling me. 18 00:01:10,732 --> 00:01:15,065 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 19 00:01:15,148 --> 00:01:18,399 I think it was right when it happened. 20 00:01:18,482 --> 00:01:22,399 Because he was just in a scream slash cry. 21 00:01:22,482 --> 00:01:24,232 "She's dead. She's dead. She's dead." 22 00:01:24,315 --> 00:01:25,899 And I'm not-- I'm like, 23 00:01:25,982 --> 00:01:28,190 "What are-- What are you talking about?" 24 00:01:28,273 --> 00:01:30,273 It's like, "Michelle, she didn't wake up. 25 00:01:30,357 --> 00:01:31,649 She's not-- she's dead." 26 00:01:31,732 --> 00:01:36,023 You know, and I still wasn't clear what was going on. 27 00:01:37,816 --> 00:01:40,524 And I said, "Patton, can you tell me what happened?" 28 00:01:40,607 --> 00:01:42,482 You know, "What's going on? Is she sick?" 29 00:01:42,565 --> 00:01:45,816 Or she-- you know, I mean, it still wasn't processing. 30 00:01:45,899 --> 00:01:47,774 So, you just went through the morning. 31 00:01:49,482 --> 00:01:51,857 And he said, "I went into the room. 32 00:01:52,524 --> 00:01:54,315 I put down the coffee. 33 00:01:55,273 --> 00:01:56,565 She was breathing. 34 00:01:57,691 --> 00:02:00,524 After doing work and emails, came back. 35 00:02:01,774 --> 00:02:03,607 And she wasn't." 36 00:02:03,691 --> 00:02:06,691 (SIRENS WAILING) 37 00:02:06,774 --> 00:02:08,899 "And then paramedics were there 38 00:02:09,982 --> 00:02:11,899 and said she was gone." 39 00:02:19,607 --> 00:02:22,440 PRINCE: (SINGING) ♪ Underneath the purple rain ♪ 40 00:02:22,524 --> 00:02:24,482 MALE NEWS ANCHOR: World-renowned pop artist Prince 41 00:02:24,565 --> 00:02:25,816 found dead in his estate... 42 00:02:25,899 --> 00:02:29,148 KATHLEEN CONROY: I was actually up in Minneapolis for work, 43 00:02:29,232 --> 00:02:31,941 watching the Prince story unfold. 44 00:02:32,023 --> 00:02:33,816 JAKE TAPPER: ...the cause of death is not yet known. 45 00:02:33,899 --> 00:02:36,482 We do know that the last few weeks of his life 46 00:02:36,565 --> 00:02:38,524 were a bit mysterious. 47 00:02:38,607 --> 00:02:42,107 And Mary Rita called when I was in the hotel room. 48 00:02:42,482 --> 00:02:44,190 And... 49 00:02:44,273 --> 00:02:48,107 yeah, I just... was stunned. 50 00:02:48,774 --> 00:02:51,148 (PHONE RINGING) 51 00:02:51,232 --> 00:02:53,774 MAUREEN STRATTON: My sister Mary Rita called me at work. 52 00:02:55,023 --> 00:02:58,649 And, um... Yeah, it was horrible. 53 00:02:58,732 --> 00:03:01,899 I mean, she just kept saying, "It's bad. It's really bad." 54 00:03:01,982 --> 00:03:04,857 But she-- it took her a while to tell me what had happened, 55 00:03:04,941 --> 00:03:07,565 and it was just such a... 56 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,482 out-of-the-blue, you know, um... 57 00:03:11,565 --> 00:03:13,816 I mean, you never expected that, 58 00:03:13,899 --> 00:03:17,023 your baby sister to pass before you 59 00:03:17,107 --> 00:03:18,941 or anyone else in the family. 60 00:03:21,941 --> 00:03:23,816 KATHLEEN: I can remember thinking 61 00:03:23,899 --> 00:03:26,273 something happened that involved the case 62 00:03:26,357 --> 00:03:28,816 or, like, that it was foul play or whatever. 63 00:03:28,899 --> 00:03:30,857 'Cause I could not wrap my head around the fact 64 00:03:30,941 --> 00:03:33,899 that she could just die in her sleep. 65 00:03:35,065 --> 00:03:39,232 ♪ ("AVALANCHE" BY AIMEE MANN PLAYING) ♪ 66 00:03:45,565 --> 00:03:49,273 ♪ Well, I stepped Into an avalanche ♪ 67 00:03:50,899 --> 00:03:53,607 ♪ It covered up my soul ♪ 68 00:03:56,148 --> 00:04:00,440 ♪ When I am not this hunchback That you see ♪ 69 00:04:01,357 --> 00:04:04,524 ♪ I sleep Beneath the golden hill ♪ 70 00:04:06,941 --> 00:04:10,565 ♪ You who wish to conquer pain ♪ 71 00:04:10,649 --> 00:04:16,691 ♪ You must learn Learn to serve me well ♪ 72 00:04:20,816 --> 00:04:23,524 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 73 00:04:32,023 --> 00:04:35,232 (DOOR CREAKS) 74 00:04:43,941 --> 00:04:45,524 PATTON OSWALT: I can't... 75 00:04:45,607 --> 00:04:48,232 completely trust my memories from that time. 76 00:04:50,023 --> 00:04:53,065 I remember all of the McNamaras being there. 77 00:04:55,107 --> 00:04:59,482 Uh, I rem-- I remember being very, very frightened, 78 00:04:59,565 --> 00:05:03,148 and very, very-- like, pathologically 79 00:05:03,232 --> 00:05:06,774 trying to bring any kind of normalcy 80 00:05:06,857 --> 00:05:10,399 to any minute of my life. 81 00:05:14,357 --> 00:05:16,691 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 82 00:05:17,982 --> 00:05:20,315 MAUREEN: It's a bit of a blur, those couple weeks. 83 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:25,482 I mean, I-- I don't-- I remember Alice wanted to go to school, 84 00:05:25,565 --> 00:05:28,649 um, that Monday. 85 00:05:28,732 --> 00:05:32,691 I remember on the weekend after she died, 86 00:05:32,774 --> 00:05:34,899 there-- we had a pool party. 87 00:05:39,065 --> 00:05:40,273 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 88 00:05:40,357 --> 00:05:42,315 MARY RITA: When you have a child involved, 89 00:05:42,399 --> 00:05:44,357 you gotta make sure she's okay moving forward, 90 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,273 and that she sees that we're gonna be there for her. 91 00:05:48,732 --> 00:05:50,524 And I remember that at night, 92 00:05:50,607 --> 00:05:52,232 Alice and Michelle would always talk 93 00:05:52,315 --> 00:05:54,565 about what's your rose and your thorn for the day. 94 00:05:55,315 --> 00:05:57,065 You know, the good and bad. 95 00:05:58,732 --> 00:06:01,649 And that night she said, you know, 96 00:06:01,732 --> 00:06:04,607 "I know what my rose is and what my thorn is. 97 00:06:06,607 --> 00:06:08,899 My rose is that you all are here. 98 00:06:10,107 --> 00:06:12,941 My thorn is that my mom's gone." 99 00:06:14,107 --> 00:06:18,482 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 100 00:06:19,357 --> 00:06:21,899 I just-- it was terrify-- I just-- 101 00:06:22,607 --> 00:06:23,774 I remember I... 102 00:06:26,023 --> 00:06:30,482 I did that thing where I, like, closed my eyes 103 00:06:30,565 --> 00:06:32,691 and I tried to will this-- 104 00:06:32,774 --> 00:06:34,107 as a nightmare, like-- 105 00:06:34,190 --> 00:06:36,440 and then-- and then it just wasn't. 106 00:06:45,524 --> 00:06:48,107 FEMALE NEWS ANCHOR: Michelle McNamara, the wife of popular comedian 107 00:06:48,190 --> 00:06:49,649 and actor Patton Oswalt, 108 00:06:49,732 --> 00:06:52,065 has died at the age of 46. 109 00:06:52,148 --> 00:06:54,524 A spokesman says she, a crime writer, 110 00:06:54,607 --> 00:06:56,524 died in her sleep and that her passing 111 00:06:56,607 --> 00:06:59,440 came as a complete surprise to the family. 112 00:07:00,816 --> 00:07:03,899 KAREN KILGARIFF: Michelle was such a brilliant woman. 113 00:07:03,982 --> 00:07:06,607 She was such a talented writer. 114 00:07:06,691 --> 00:07:10,732 She was so into everything that we're all into, 115 00:07:10,816 --> 00:07:14,899 and she made such great contents. 116 00:07:14,982 --> 00:07:20,273 It's just a... incomprehensible tragedy. 117 00:07:25,315 --> 00:07:30,023 In the true crime community, her death was-- 118 00:07:30,107 --> 00:07:33,941 It was-- It-- For a long time, it was just unbelievable. 119 00:07:34,023 --> 00:07:37,857 You just-- you didn't-- of course, no one expected it, 120 00:07:37,941 --> 00:07:39,107 but you really don't expect it 121 00:07:39,190 --> 00:07:41,899 when someone is in the midst of something like that. 122 00:07:41,982 --> 00:07:45,357 Like, she was on this journey, this very public journey, 123 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,315 and this very important one 124 00:07:47,399 --> 00:07:50,482 that was getting all this kinda steam behind it. 125 00:07:55,273 --> 00:07:57,232 And then just a sudden loss, 126 00:07:57,315 --> 00:08:01,190 like-- like-- like a shocking stop. 127 00:08:04,982 --> 00:08:07,023 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 128 00:08:13,607 --> 00:08:15,732 You know, one of the first things I thought was, 129 00:08:15,816 --> 00:08:17,941 "That-- that book has to get finished." 130 00:08:20,107 --> 00:08:23,065 And I actually, uh, texted Patton 131 00:08:23,148 --> 00:08:26,273 just to say, "Whatever I can do." 132 00:08:26,357 --> 00:08:29,732 And Patton answered and was like, "We're already on it." 133 00:08:35,273 --> 00:08:36,565 (SIGHS) 134 00:08:42,899 --> 00:08:45,107 PAUL HAYNES: When I learned that she died, 135 00:08:45,190 --> 00:08:47,107 it was so painful. 136 00:08:47,190 --> 00:08:50,941 I felt like I was damaging my body. 137 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:55,232 And then, I was contacted by one of Michelle's friends 138 00:08:55,315 --> 00:08:57,232 with respect to the boxes. 139 00:08:57,315 --> 00:08:58,691 "What do we do with them?" 140 00:08:58,774 --> 00:09:00,482 I was like, "Well, give them to me," 141 00:09:00,565 --> 00:09:01,774 you know, "I'll take them." 142 00:09:08,107 --> 00:09:12,190 My dining area became a cold case storage locker 143 00:09:12,273 --> 00:09:13,941 for the better part of that year. 144 00:09:15,649 --> 00:09:19,232 My commitment was to ensuring that the many hours 145 00:09:19,315 --> 00:09:21,607 that she'd spent working on this case 146 00:09:21,691 --> 00:09:22,982 weren't futile. 147 00:09:24,816 --> 00:09:28,649 You know, that we could resume where she left off. 148 00:09:32,816 --> 00:09:34,565 I wanted to take care of this person 149 00:09:34,649 --> 00:09:36,232 for her whole life. 150 00:09:36,315 --> 00:09:40,148 And Michelle's book was always such a dream for her. 151 00:09:41,649 --> 00:09:46,023 So, it almost felt like it was my last opportunity 152 00:09:46,107 --> 00:09:48,774 to take care of something for her. 153 00:09:51,649 --> 00:09:53,732 DANIEL GREENBERG: Once Patton had kind of given us 154 00:09:53,816 --> 00:09:55,273 the signal, "Let's do it," 155 00:09:55,357 --> 00:09:57,816 there was the process of 156 00:09:57,899 --> 00:10:00,732 Jennifer going through all of her emails and files 157 00:10:00,816 --> 00:10:04,190 and saying, "Okay, I have 150 manuscript pages. 158 00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:09,148 But what else is there?" 159 00:10:09,232 --> 00:10:12,941 That's when I started to get in touch with Paul Haynes 160 00:10:13,023 --> 00:10:16,190 because someone had to go into her computer. 161 00:10:18,941 --> 00:10:22,482 And then, we brought Billy Jensen in 162 00:10:22,565 --> 00:10:25,107 because he was a friend, 163 00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:28,315 and he was a true crime writer himself. 164 00:10:29,607 --> 00:10:32,482 BILLY JENSEN: Every month, Michelle and I would meet 165 00:10:32,565 --> 00:10:34,941 and she would talk to me about her case 166 00:10:35,023 --> 00:10:37,565 and I would talk about my cases. 167 00:10:37,649 --> 00:10:39,315 I mean, this was a relationship 168 00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:41,857 that was entirely based on crime. 169 00:10:43,941 --> 00:10:47,107 So, the only thing I thought that I could do to help 170 00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:48,857 was to help finish this book. 171 00:10:51,107 --> 00:10:53,899 Paul sends me her entire hard drive, 172 00:10:53,982 --> 00:10:55,691 and I'm looking and I'm going, "All right, well, 173 00:10:55,774 --> 00:10:57,732 what do we have to work with here?" 174 00:10:57,816 --> 00:11:00,691 And I start reading it, and it's so good. 175 00:11:00,774 --> 00:11:05,273 MICHELLE MCNAMARA: (READS) 176 00:11:05,357 --> 00:11:07,816 Every obsession needs a room of its own. 177 00:11:07,899 --> 00:11:09,440 HAYNES: There were a lot of pieces of writing, 178 00:11:09,524 --> 00:11:11,440 a lot of notes, a lot of Word documents 179 00:11:11,524 --> 00:11:12,649 with fragments of things. 180 00:11:12,732 --> 00:11:14,649 MICHELLE: "The act of bludgeoning was arousal..." 181 00:11:14,732 --> 00:11:16,148 HAYNES: Like email correspondences... 182 00:11:16,232 --> 00:11:18,315 MICHELLE: "The ratio of investigating to writing 183 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:19,524 is out of whack for me..." 184 00:11:19,607 --> 00:11:20,941 HAYNES: ...and her chapter outlines, 185 00:11:21,023 --> 00:11:23,774 referencing sections that she never got around to writing. 186 00:11:23,857 --> 00:11:26,190 For instance, a section about her experience 187 00:11:26,273 --> 00:11:27,565 in Northern Ireland. 188 00:11:27,649 --> 00:11:30,023 MICHELLE: "...I let him press against me..." 189 00:11:33,482 --> 00:11:35,357 BILLY: We just, like, kind of, like, pulling things 190 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,482 from here and there 191 00:11:36,565 --> 00:11:38,691 and-- and plugging them in. 192 00:11:38,774 --> 00:11:42,148 And then I see this one Microsoft Word document, 193 00:11:42,232 --> 00:11:44,148 and I read it, and I was like, 194 00:11:44,232 --> 00:11:46,273 "This is the ending of the book." 195 00:11:47,774 --> 00:11:50,232 MICHELLE: One day soon you'll hear a car pull up, 196 00:11:50,315 --> 00:11:52,899 you'll hear footsteps coming up your front walk... 197 00:11:52,982 --> 00:11:55,565 Take one of your hyper gulping breaths... 198 00:11:55,649 --> 00:11:57,816 (READS) 199 00:11:58,649 --> 00:11:59,774 (DOORBELL RINGS) 200 00:12:09,357 --> 00:12:10,941 (ENGINE STARTS) 201 00:12:13,941 --> 00:12:16,232 PAUL HOLES: When she died... 202 00:12:16,315 --> 00:12:18,357 the emotional blow 203 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,649 was like the loss of a family member. 204 00:12:21,732 --> 00:12:23,232 There's no question about that. 205 00:12:23,315 --> 00:12:25,982 I-- I was hit, and hit hard. 206 00:12:26,691 --> 00:12:29,607 Um... (CLEARS THROAT) 207 00:12:29,691 --> 00:12:34,482 And then there was the case, 208 00:12:34,565 --> 00:12:38,357 and I just lost my investigative partner. 209 00:12:41,315 --> 00:12:45,899 I was able to get down, uh, to Southern California 210 00:12:45,982 --> 00:12:48,065 for Michelle's memorial. 211 00:12:48,148 --> 00:12:50,774 WOMAN: Just like one of her beloved lighthouses, 212 00:12:50,857 --> 00:12:55,065 Michelle's light will shine on, and we will remain drawn to it. 213 00:12:55,148 --> 00:12:58,023 (APPLAUSE) 214 00:12:58,107 --> 00:13:00,691 HOLES: And there's a guy standing in front of me, 215 00:13:00,774 --> 00:13:02,899 and he's got a badge on his lapel. 216 00:13:02,982 --> 00:13:06,649 And I just say, "Hey, you law enforcement?" 217 00:13:06,732 --> 00:13:09,482 And he was like, "Yeah," and we introduce ourselves. 218 00:13:09,565 --> 00:13:12,357 And it was Greg Stearns from LAPD robbery-homicide. 219 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,440 He ends up getting up on stage 220 00:13:14,524 --> 00:13:17,190 and gave a very nice speech. 221 00:13:17,273 --> 00:13:19,440 GREG STEARNS: Homicide cops are impatient. 222 00:13:19,524 --> 00:13:21,774 We're egotistical to an extent, 223 00:13:21,857 --> 00:13:23,273 we're very territorial, 224 00:13:23,357 --> 00:13:25,273 and we certainly don't like to be second-guessed 225 00:13:25,357 --> 00:13:27,232 or have anyone make suggestions. 226 00:13:27,315 --> 00:13:31,357 (LAUGHTER) 227 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,440 And so, Michelle was able to do what-- 228 00:13:33,524 --> 00:13:35,440 what very few people could do. 229 00:13:35,524 --> 00:13:38,399 And I have every belief that through her work 230 00:13:38,482 --> 00:13:40,649 that this will be solved. 231 00:13:40,732 --> 00:13:44,649 Michelle always was and always will be one of us. 232 00:13:44,732 --> 00:13:48,440 (APPLAUSE) 233 00:13:51,107 --> 00:13:54,357 HOLES: I mean, my world was spinning around me. 234 00:13:58,232 --> 00:14:00,357 You know, one of the goofy things that I would do 235 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,023 is I would say, "Okay, Michelle, you now know who 236 00:14:03,107 --> 00:14:04,357 the Golden State Killer is. 237 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,565 Just kinda channel something through me. 238 00:14:06,649 --> 00:14:08,482 You know, point me in the right direction." 239 00:14:08,565 --> 00:14:10,482 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 240 00:14:10,565 --> 00:14:13,315 MICHELLE: Are you familiar with a company called 23andMe? 241 00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:15,440 -LARRY POOLE: Yeah. -MICHELLE: My husband and I did it. 242 00:14:15,524 --> 00:14:17,399 You turn in your own DNA, so you swab yourself. 243 00:14:17,482 --> 00:14:20,357 And it-- it gives you genetic, uh, your genetic history 244 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:21,691 for everything from diseases. 245 00:14:21,774 --> 00:14:23,982 But they're starting to do ancestry and stuff like that. 246 00:14:24,065 --> 00:14:26,691 And to me, it just seems like, gosh, is there any way 247 00:14:26,774 --> 00:14:27,857 that you guys could-- 248 00:14:27,941 --> 00:14:29,440 could put it into a system like that? 249 00:14:29,524 --> 00:14:32,774 'Cause I feel like he's gotta be related to someone. 250 00:14:32,857 --> 00:14:34,524 HOLES: Michelle most certainly was somebody 251 00:14:34,607 --> 00:14:36,148 who was a big proponent of using 252 00:14:36,232 --> 00:14:38,315 the latest, greatest DNA technology 253 00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:39,607 to solve this case. 254 00:14:41,148 --> 00:14:42,982 She was saying, "Let's just go ahead 255 00:14:43,065 --> 00:14:44,524 and create an undercover account 256 00:14:44,607 --> 00:14:46,941 to search for his relatives." 257 00:14:47,023 --> 00:14:51,065 She was even offering to pay to do some of this work. 258 00:14:51,148 --> 00:14:53,482 MICHELLE: Now, like, if a private person had asked 259 00:14:53,565 --> 00:14:56,023 if they could do that, has that ever happened? 260 00:14:56,107 --> 00:14:58,023 -LARRY: No. -MICHELLE: Okay. 261 00:14:58,107 --> 00:15:01,273 HOLES: The big hurdle from a technical standpoint 262 00:15:01,357 --> 00:15:04,357 is that these genealogy websites required us to mail in 263 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,065 the Golden State Killer's saliva or spit, 264 00:15:07,148 --> 00:15:09,399 which we didn't have. 265 00:15:09,482 --> 00:15:12,399 MICHELLE: I think that within the next six months, 266 00:15:12,482 --> 00:15:14,399 the technology is gonna get even better, 267 00:15:14,482 --> 00:15:16,941 and-- and we're gonna be able to put it together. 268 00:15:17,023 --> 00:15:20,357 HOLES: Since that time, a website called GEDmatch 269 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,399 became a powerful tool. 270 00:15:23,482 --> 00:15:26,607 Instead of sending GEDmatch the Golden State Killer's spit, 271 00:15:26,691 --> 00:15:30,148 we could upload a new type of digital DNA profile. 272 00:15:31,691 --> 00:15:33,982 But in order to generate this profile, 273 00:15:34,065 --> 00:15:37,607 I have to first have an adequate amount 274 00:15:37,691 --> 00:15:40,524 of Golden State Killer DNA. 275 00:15:40,607 --> 00:15:43,691 Unfortunately, the DNA that I had generated 276 00:15:43,774 --> 00:15:46,065 from the three Contra Costa County cases 277 00:15:46,148 --> 00:15:47,857 I had completely consumed. 278 00:15:49,023 --> 00:15:52,107 So now it's, okay, we have to start 279 00:15:52,190 --> 00:15:54,524 reaching out to the other jurisdictions 280 00:15:54,607 --> 00:15:58,899 to figure out is there enough DNA remaining 281 00:15:58,982 --> 00:16:00,357 for us to be able to do 282 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,649 this new genealogy type of DNA test. 283 00:16:04,982 --> 00:16:08,107 I end up getting a call from the Ventura DA investigator 284 00:16:08,190 --> 00:16:10,399 saying, "You won't believe this. 285 00:16:10,482 --> 00:16:13,941 We've got a ton of Golden State Killer DNA. 286 00:16:14,023 --> 00:16:15,816 How much do you want?" 287 00:16:23,107 --> 00:16:25,190 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 288 00:16:29,524 --> 00:16:32,482 KRIS PEDRETTI: I did a great job for 42 years 289 00:16:32,565 --> 00:16:36,565 of trying to be as normal as possible. 290 00:16:37,691 --> 00:16:41,941 I am your perfect overachiever. 291 00:16:42,023 --> 00:16:45,315 You know, I don't just garden. I garden. 292 00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:47,732 I don't just have a job, 293 00:16:47,816 --> 00:16:49,982 you know, I'm working 12 hours a day. 294 00:16:50,065 --> 00:16:52,399 I think keeping busy, um... 295 00:16:55,273 --> 00:17:00,482 keeps your focus on the outside... elements 296 00:17:00,565 --> 00:17:04,107 and-- and you don't really look inward too deep. 297 00:17:05,565 --> 00:17:07,232 I mean, you've got to remember, 298 00:17:07,315 --> 00:17:11,273 the '70s were definitely a time that you didn't share. 299 00:17:11,357 --> 00:17:14,732 My parents didn't tell their own family. 300 00:17:14,816 --> 00:17:19,315 So I really slipped into more of a denial. 301 00:17:20,107 --> 00:17:22,607 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 302 00:17:22,691 --> 00:17:26,190 And then, in 2018, 303 00:17:26,273 --> 00:17:29,482 a newspaper article came out. 304 00:17:29,565 --> 00:17:30,899 And my husband said, 305 00:17:30,982 --> 00:17:33,190 "Kris, there's something you might want to see." 306 00:17:33,273 --> 00:17:37,273 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 307 00:17:41,315 --> 00:17:43,774 I never thought I would see a picture 308 00:17:43,857 --> 00:17:45,482 of a victim of the East Area Rapist. 309 00:17:45,565 --> 00:17:47,982 I just felt like it was supposed to be a secret. 310 00:17:50,982 --> 00:17:54,190 I was so blown away that I wrote to the editor 311 00:17:54,273 --> 00:17:58,148 and asked if he could please give her my phone number. 312 00:17:58,232 --> 00:18:01,190 And she called me the next day. And... 313 00:18:01,273 --> 00:18:04,482 (CHUCKLES) Now, I'm actually talking to another victim. 314 00:18:04,565 --> 00:18:07,649 And that was-- I just-- I don't know how to explain 315 00:18:07,732 --> 00:18:09,357 what that feeling was like. 316 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,315 And then, uh, she introduced me to Carol Daly. 317 00:18:16,190 --> 00:18:17,691 Carol came over, 318 00:18:17,774 --> 00:18:21,482 and she brought me a copy of the police report. 319 00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:26,649 My husband took off work, and my sister, 320 00:18:26,732 --> 00:18:29,107 and my mind was just going, like, 321 00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:31,524 "How do we make this right?" 322 00:18:31,607 --> 00:18:33,857 And that's when I just said, 323 00:18:33,941 --> 00:18:36,482 "Do you want me to read this to you?" 324 00:18:37,357 --> 00:18:39,774 And they said, "If you're okay." 325 00:18:39,857 --> 00:18:41,607 And I said, "You know what? Let's do it. 326 00:18:41,691 --> 00:18:43,357 Let's-- let's start fresh. 327 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,273 Let's everybody know everything." 328 00:18:45,357 --> 00:18:48,440 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 329 00:18:48,524 --> 00:18:50,816 "So, at approximately 7:15, 330 00:18:50,899 --> 00:18:54,607 the victim placed a pizza in the oven. 331 00:18:54,691 --> 00:18:58,524 She then went into the front living room to play her piano. 332 00:18:58,607 --> 00:19:00,482 As she started playing the piano, 333 00:19:00,565 --> 00:19:03,941 she heard a noise next to her on her left side, 334 00:19:04,023 --> 00:19:05,774 and she started to turn around. 335 00:19:05,857 --> 00:19:09,399 As she did so, she saw subject standing next to her 336 00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:11,899 and suspect then put a knife against her throat. 337 00:19:13,649 --> 00:19:16,649 The suspect told the victim, 'Get moving. 338 00:19:16,732 --> 00:19:18,607 If you say anything or flinch, 339 00:19:18,691 --> 00:19:20,357 I'll push the knife all the way in 340 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,774 and I'll be gone in the dark of the night.'" 341 00:19:26,232 --> 00:19:29,232 Both of my parents have passed away. 342 00:19:29,315 --> 00:19:31,774 I don't feel I would be sitting here today 343 00:19:31,857 --> 00:19:33,982 if they were alive 344 00:19:34,065 --> 00:19:38,232 because I think it would be very disturbing to them. 345 00:19:39,023 --> 00:19:42,315 And then I said, "Six-foot tall, 346 00:19:42,399 --> 00:19:43,565 regular build, 347 00:19:44,273 --> 00:19:46,565 possible small penis." 348 00:19:46,649 --> 00:19:50,732 Um... "Victim's hymen still intact." 349 00:19:52,857 --> 00:19:55,482 Reading the report to my family, 350 00:19:55,565 --> 00:19:58,357 I think that was a real moment for me, 351 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,065 um, in kind of owning my own story and sharing it. 352 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,482 But I could've dealt with that so much earlier. 353 00:20:08,232 --> 00:20:10,148 I, you know, I wonder... 354 00:20:10,232 --> 00:20:13,232 who would I be now, you know? 355 00:20:13,315 --> 00:20:14,899 You know, what could've been different? 356 00:20:14,982 --> 00:20:19,607 What would my-- what would my past have entailed? 357 00:20:30,107 --> 00:20:31,982 (ALICE COOING) 358 00:20:32,065 --> 00:20:33,857 MICHELLE: Alice, hi. 359 00:20:33,982 --> 00:20:35,148 (ALICE COOS) 360 00:20:35,982 --> 00:20:37,399 MICHELLE: Hi. 361 00:20:37,482 --> 00:20:40,691 I'm so emotional right now, you wouldn't believe. 362 00:20:40,774 --> 00:20:42,273 Alice. 363 00:20:42,357 --> 00:20:44,732 Painkillers equal joy. 364 00:20:44,816 --> 00:20:46,107 Can you smile? 365 00:20:46,899 --> 00:20:48,065 Can you smile? 366 00:20:48,148 --> 00:20:51,774 "Postpartum depression," my husband explained to friends. 367 00:20:52,691 --> 00:20:55,440 But it wasn't new mom blues. 368 00:20:55,524 --> 00:20:57,816 It was old mom blues. 369 00:21:02,649 --> 00:21:04,482 During my wedding, my mother and I 370 00:21:04,565 --> 00:21:07,148 had our biggest blowout yet. 371 00:21:07,941 --> 00:21:09,899 We never spoke of it. 372 00:21:09,982 --> 00:21:11,816 But she wrote me a long letter 373 00:21:11,899 --> 00:21:13,607 detailing all the things about me 374 00:21:13,691 --> 00:21:15,482 that made her proud. 375 00:21:16,691 --> 00:21:20,691 We slowly rebuilt our relationship after that. 376 00:21:23,565 --> 00:21:27,440 (READS) 377 00:21:27,524 --> 00:21:29,357 (PHONE RINGS) 378 00:21:30,023 --> 00:21:33,065 (READS) 379 00:21:33,148 --> 00:21:34,190 "What?" 380 00:21:35,148 --> 00:21:37,315 "Oh, Michelle... 381 00:21:39,148 --> 00:21:40,524 Mom died." 382 00:21:46,565 --> 00:21:49,399 I wish now I'd been kinder to her. 383 00:21:50,607 --> 00:21:53,941 She could be undermining and cutting in her remarks, 384 00:21:54,023 --> 00:21:56,691 but the older me sees that as a mark 385 00:21:56,774 --> 00:22:00,023 of a deeply sensitive person. 386 00:22:00,107 --> 00:22:03,982 She endured alcoholic parents and the death of an infant son. 387 00:22:04,065 --> 00:22:07,524 She was raising six kids with no help. 388 00:22:09,899 --> 00:22:12,482 Holding my newborn daughter, I got it. 389 00:22:12,565 --> 00:22:15,148 I got the love that guts you. 390 00:22:15,232 --> 00:22:16,899 (ALICE COOS) 391 00:22:16,982 --> 00:22:18,524 MICHELLE: Can you do the dance? 392 00:22:18,607 --> 00:22:21,565 The sense of responsibility that narrows the world 393 00:22:21,649 --> 00:22:23,607 to a pair of needy eyes. 394 00:22:23,691 --> 00:22:24,899 Hi, Tickles! 395 00:22:26,232 --> 00:22:28,816 Ooh! 396 00:22:28,899 --> 00:22:30,482 Writing this now, 397 00:22:30,565 --> 00:22:34,232 I'm struck by two incompatible truths that pain me. 398 00:22:35,732 --> 00:22:38,440 (READS) 399 00:22:40,774 --> 00:22:43,899 But I probably wouldn't have felt the freedom to write it 400 00:22:43,982 --> 00:22:45,816 until she was gone. 401 00:22:59,982 --> 00:23:02,273 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 402 00:23:02,357 --> 00:23:04,565 PATTON: Second worst day of my life 403 00:23:04,649 --> 00:23:07,774 was the day that my wife passed away. 404 00:23:10,357 --> 00:23:16,357 The worst day of my life was the day after, 405 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,607 when I had to tell our daughter. 406 00:23:21,691 --> 00:23:25,232 My wife passed away while she was at school. 407 00:23:25,315 --> 00:23:28,023 So, I talked to the school, and I told them what happened. 408 00:23:28,107 --> 00:23:29,774 And the principal talked to me. 409 00:23:29,857 --> 00:23:30,899 She was amazing and said, 410 00:23:30,982 --> 00:23:33,148 "She can't come home from school, 411 00:23:33,232 --> 00:23:36,482 and then you tell her, and then she has to go to bed." 412 00:23:39,649 --> 00:23:42,023 She said, "Tell her in the sunshine." 413 00:23:46,732 --> 00:23:48,190 So... 414 00:23:48,273 --> 00:23:52,565 I had to look at this little girl 415 00:23:52,649 --> 00:23:56,816 that was everything to me, and take everything from her. 416 00:24:03,565 --> 00:24:06,524 I-- I-- I mean, I-- I shut down for a long time. 417 00:24:06,607 --> 00:24:09,023 I wasn't even-- At first it was about, 418 00:24:09,107 --> 00:24:11,190 "Okay, I gotta get through the day-to-day," 419 00:24:11,273 --> 00:24:12,649 get Alice up, you know, 420 00:24:12,732 --> 00:24:14,816 get her to sleep at night while she's crying, 421 00:24:14,899 --> 00:24:17,524 deal with her nightmares, deal with my nightmares. 422 00:24:20,273 --> 00:24:22,232 I'm just gonna walk forward into the dark, 423 00:24:22,315 --> 00:24:23,857 just windmilling my arms around, 424 00:24:23,941 --> 00:24:26,023 just flailing my arms around everywhere. 425 00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:34,482 Now I'm, you know, 426 00:24:34,565 --> 00:24:37,023 it's six months and twelve days on. 427 00:24:37,107 --> 00:24:41,273 And, man, uh, grief is... 428 00:24:41,357 --> 00:24:44,232 It-- It-- If you don't talk about it, 429 00:24:44,315 --> 00:24:46,732 then grief really gets to 430 00:24:46,816 --> 00:24:50,524 set up and fortify its positions inside of you 431 00:24:50,607 --> 00:24:52,440 and begin to immobilize you. 432 00:24:53,857 --> 00:24:54,982 But the more you talk, 433 00:24:55,065 --> 00:24:57,482 the more you expose it to the air and to the light, 434 00:24:57,565 --> 00:24:58,649 then, you know, 435 00:24:58,732 --> 00:25:01,023 grief doesn't get a chance to organize itself. 436 00:25:01,107 --> 00:25:04,399 And then you can maybe move on a little easier. 437 00:25:05,982 --> 00:25:09,816 It's a way to make the darkness feel uncomfortable with itself 438 00:25:09,899 --> 00:25:11,399 for a little bit. 439 00:25:11,482 --> 00:25:14,065 (APPLAUSE) 440 00:25:19,315 --> 00:25:21,774 Just over a year ago, um, 441 00:25:21,857 --> 00:25:23,691 I became a widower. 442 00:25:23,774 --> 00:25:28,565 And, uh, I have-- I'm moving along as best I can. 443 00:25:28,649 --> 00:25:30,982 It is, you know, I'm-- I can get up 444 00:25:31,065 --> 00:25:33,691 and I can do my job. I can be a dad. 445 00:25:33,774 --> 00:25:35,315 But, uh, it's not-- 446 00:25:35,399 --> 00:25:38,732 You know, it-- it's still-- The wound is there. 447 00:25:38,816 --> 00:25:41,482 It is healing. It's not shut yet. 448 00:25:41,565 --> 00:25:43,357 And, uh... ooh, by the way, 449 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,524 if one more person wishes me "strength" 450 00:25:46,607 --> 00:25:49,273 -on my "healing journey"... -(LAUGHTER) 451 00:25:49,357 --> 00:25:51,899 ...I'm gonna throw a balloon full of piss 452 00:25:51,982 --> 00:25:55,691 into every candle store on the planet because... 453 00:25:55,774 --> 00:25:57,565 -(APPLAUSE) -It... 454 00:25:58,315 --> 00:26:00,857 It is not a healing journey. 455 00:26:00,941 --> 00:26:04,065 -ARI SHAPIRO: She died in April. -PATTON: April 21st. 456 00:26:04,148 --> 00:26:06,691 ARI: And so, we are almost at the point 457 00:26:06,774 --> 00:26:08,982 where it will no longer be the first... 458 00:26:09,065 --> 00:26:10,649 -Christmas without her... -PATTON: I know. I know. 459 00:26:10,732 --> 00:26:12,482 ARI: ...the first Mother's Day without her, 460 00:26:12,565 --> 00:26:14,232 the first birthday without her. 461 00:26:14,315 --> 00:26:15,565 PATTON: Oh, God, that's-- 462 00:26:15,649 --> 00:26:18,357 Yes, that's exactly the conundrum. 463 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,190 That's the conundrum. 464 00:26:20,273 --> 00:26:24,565 Overall, 2017 is awful because at least in 2016, 465 00:26:24,649 --> 00:26:29,357 I had three months and 21 days of Michelle being in there. 466 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,148 And now, this is a year where there's no Michelle. 467 00:26:32,232 --> 00:26:33,649 Like, that's it. 468 00:26:33,732 --> 00:26:35,899 So, when January 1st dawned, 469 00:26:35,982 --> 00:26:38,232 it felt like a cell door slamming behind me. 470 00:26:38,315 --> 00:26:40,273 Like, you are now in this awful world 471 00:26:40,357 --> 00:26:42,357 where there-- you don't even have a memory of her 472 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,107 being a part of this year. 473 00:26:45,565 --> 00:26:48,107 You know, I-- You can say you're through with grief 474 00:26:48,190 --> 00:26:49,524 all you want. 475 00:26:49,607 --> 00:26:52,148 But grief will let you know when it's done. 476 00:27:02,941 --> 00:27:06,148 HAYNES: We didn't know for months what killed Michelle. 477 00:27:07,524 --> 00:27:09,732 And it was really eating away at me 478 00:27:09,816 --> 00:27:13,607 because I-- I had just seen her mere days before her death. 479 00:27:13,691 --> 00:27:17,524 And I was replaying the conversation in my mind 480 00:27:17,607 --> 00:27:19,273 for anything that may have indicated 481 00:27:19,357 --> 00:27:21,732 that this was imminent. 482 00:27:21,816 --> 00:27:24,857 There was nothing, there was nothing there. 483 00:27:24,941 --> 00:27:27,190 FEMALE REPORTER: New details now in the investigation 484 00:27:27,273 --> 00:27:29,482 into the death of music icon Prince. 485 00:27:29,565 --> 00:27:31,023 MALE REPORTER: Investigators confirm today 486 00:27:31,107 --> 00:27:34,732 that Prince died of an overdose of the painkiller fentanyl. 487 00:27:34,816 --> 00:27:36,982 REPORTER: The Drug Enforcement Administration reports 488 00:27:37,065 --> 00:27:40,941 an alarming spike in fentanyl-related overdose death. 489 00:27:41,023 --> 00:27:43,232 HAYNES: And then, Star tabloid 490 00:27:43,315 --> 00:27:46,357 got ahold of the actual medical examiner's report. 491 00:27:47,857 --> 00:27:51,899 The way it was contextualized made me sick. 492 00:27:51,982 --> 00:27:54,399 But, you know, I couldn't not look at it. 493 00:28:07,774 --> 00:28:10,190 MELANIE BARBEAU: I ordered the full autopsy report 494 00:28:10,273 --> 00:28:13,482 in order to try to understand what happened. 495 00:28:15,148 --> 00:28:17,607 You know, right on the top of the autopsy, 496 00:28:17,691 --> 00:28:21,649 it says, "From the, uh, anatomic findings 497 00:28:21,732 --> 00:28:24,315 and pertinent history, I ascribe to the death 498 00:28:24,399 --> 00:28:28,691 as... A, effects of multiple drugs." 499 00:28:28,774 --> 00:28:32,190 And then under D down below, it says, 500 00:28:32,273 --> 00:28:35,691 "Other conditions contributing but not related 501 00:28:35,774 --> 00:28:37,982 to the immediate cause of death" 502 00:28:38,065 --> 00:28:40,148 is the heart issue, 503 00:28:40,232 --> 00:28:42,273 the cardiovascular disease. 504 00:28:42,357 --> 00:28:45,399 So really that was not gonna kill her. 505 00:28:45,482 --> 00:28:47,774 That could not have been a cause of death. 506 00:28:50,649 --> 00:28:52,857 When I was younger, I had a surgery 507 00:28:52,941 --> 00:28:57,357 and got addicted to opiate prescription pills. 508 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,107 I had to seek recovery from that. 509 00:29:01,649 --> 00:29:05,065 So I wish I could've recognized that happening 510 00:29:05,148 --> 00:29:07,691 because I feel like, uh, you know, 511 00:29:07,774 --> 00:29:10,899 my own experience would, uh, make me a good person 512 00:29:10,982 --> 00:29:14,107 to have communicated with her and maybe tried to help her. 513 00:29:17,982 --> 00:29:20,065 She had Adderall, 514 00:29:20,148 --> 00:29:21,774 opiates, fentanyl, 515 00:29:21,857 --> 00:29:23,315 uh, Xanax. 516 00:29:28,482 --> 00:29:30,107 No doctor prescribed 517 00:29:30,190 --> 00:29:32,482 that amount of pills to her like this. 518 00:29:34,065 --> 00:29:36,190 Oftentimes, you have to turn to drugs 519 00:29:36,273 --> 00:29:38,816 that are being sold under the table, 520 00:29:38,899 --> 00:29:42,649 and you don't know exactly what's in the drug. 521 00:29:42,732 --> 00:29:45,816 And that's where we're seeing a lot of the counterfeit drugs 522 00:29:45,899 --> 00:29:47,982 that are cut with fentanyl. 523 00:29:49,232 --> 00:29:51,857 Fentanyl's 100 times stronger than morphine. 524 00:29:52,857 --> 00:29:55,190 A little tiny bit of fentanyl 525 00:29:55,273 --> 00:29:58,023 would kill the average person if they just took it. 526 00:29:59,482 --> 00:30:01,440 That's one of the reasons we're seeing a spike 527 00:30:01,524 --> 00:30:03,649 in prescription drug overdoses. 528 00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:08,190 Many of these individuals live in a, uh, 529 00:30:08,273 --> 00:30:10,148 a silo of their own 530 00:30:10,232 --> 00:30:12,732 and, um, are able to hide it 531 00:30:12,816 --> 00:30:16,148 until it comes to problems like this. 532 00:30:16,232 --> 00:30:19,273 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 533 00:30:32,232 --> 00:30:34,315 PATTON: I couldn't process it. 534 00:30:34,399 --> 00:30:35,732 If she had gotten more sleep, 535 00:30:35,816 --> 00:30:37,399 would she have been more cognizant 536 00:30:37,482 --> 00:30:40,440 of what she was doing? I don't know. 537 00:30:40,524 --> 00:30:43,232 Because, I mean, when she would share with me, it was like, 538 00:30:43,315 --> 00:30:45,482 "I'm just taking some Adderall to focus in the morning, 539 00:30:45,565 --> 00:30:47,816 I'm taking some Vicodin at night to--" 540 00:30:47,899 --> 00:30:49,607 Like, she said it in such a... 541 00:30:49,691 --> 00:30:51,607 "Eh, don't worry about it," you know? 542 00:30:51,691 --> 00:30:53,774 And-- and the way that she said it so casually 543 00:30:53,857 --> 00:30:55,774 and so, like, on top of it, like, "I'm just doing that," 544 00:30:55,857 --> 00:30:57,482 I'm, like, "Oh, okay." Well, you know. 545 00:30:57,565 --> 00:30:58,982 Fuck do I know? 546 00:30:59,899 --> 00:31:01,607 I didn't realize that... 547 00:31:03,023 --> 00:31:05,357 it piles up the way that it does, 548 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,148 and it-- I-- I-- I just-- 549 00:31:07,232 --> 00:31:09,148 I didn't-- that's something 550 00:31:09,232 --> 00:31:12,023 that I get to carry with me forever, 551 00:31:12,107 --> 00:31:13,607 is just not knowing. 552 00:31:19,649 --> 00:31:20,899 I don't know. 553 00:31:20,982 --> 00:31:24,982 -♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ -(SIGHS) 554 00:31:30,273 --> 00:31:34,440 Uh-- Uh, it's-- it's still inexplicable to me 555 00:31:34,524 --> 00:31:36,607 and I don't really understand it. 556 00:31:36,691 --> 00:31:39,148 But our family is aware 557 00:31:39,232 --> 00:31:42,649 that there are addiction issues 558 00:31:42,732 --> 00:31:46,482 on both sides of my parents' family. 559 00:31:48,816 --> 00:31:51,857 My dad, he was very high functioning, 560 00:31:51,941 --> 00:31:54,982 but he decided to go ahead and go into rehab, 561 00:31:55,065 --> 00:31:56,816 and he never drank again. 562 00:31:58,857 --> 00:32:01,357 And I don't know if that was Michelle's issue. 563 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:02,982 I really have no idea. 564 00:32:04,524 --> 00:32:07,190 MARY RITA: It was definitely an internal struggle. 565 00:32:07,273 --> 00:32:09,857 I mean, she knew if she was in a dark place or not, 566 00:32:09,941 --> 00:32:12,691 and she did what she had to do on her own. 567 00:32:12,774 --> 00:32:15,440 It wasn't like she drew everyone in 568 00:32:15,524 --> 00:32:18,023 and we saw a lot of it, 569 00:32:18,107 --> 00:32:19,315 because we didn't. 570 00:32:21,482 --> 00:32:23,774 BOB MCNAMARA: I don't remember her 571 00:32:23,857 --> 00:32:26,607 expressing... concern, 572 00:32:26,691 --> 00:32:28,065 but I would, you know, 573 00:32:28,148 --> 00:32:32,273 I think generally in our family, there is some depression. 574 00:32:32,357 --> 00:32:36,440 I know my mother had-- was on anti-depressants. 575 00:32:36,524 --> 00:32:41,816 So, I-- I-- I-- in some respect, it may be a genetic thing. 576 00:32:49,148 --> 00:32:50,857 KERA BOLONIK: If you're depressed, 577 00:32:50,941 --> 00:32:52,273 it's always there. 578 00:32:52,357 --> 00:32:55,190 It just comes in and out of remission. 579 00:32:56,857 --> 00:32:59,524 We talked about it as early as high school. 580 00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:07,315 I first met Michelle when we were on the Trapeze, 581 00:33:07,399 --> 00:33:09,482 our high school paper at Oak Park. 582 00:33:09,565 --> 00:33:12,065 Oh, the biggest feat known to man, 583 00:33:12,148 --> 00:33:14,899 pick Michelle McNamara up. (GROANS) 584 00:33:14,982 --> 00:33:17,524 KERA: When I first met her, I just thought she was, 585 00:33:17,607 --> 00:33:20,649 you know, one of these, like, popular girls. 586 00:33:20,732 --> 00:33:23,357 (CROWD CHEERING) 587 00:33:25,524 --> 00:33:28,607 And she right away surprised me. 588 00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:35,399 The wheels of her mind were constantly rolling. 589 00:33:36,982 --> 00:33:39,649 I often thought she was a better friend to me 590 00:33:39,732 --> 00:33:40,941 than I was to her. 591 00:33:41,023 --> 00:33:44,148 Like, I-- I wished, uh, 592 00:33:44,232 --> 00:33:46,315 I had listened more. 593 00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:49,649 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 594 00:33:49,732 --> 00:33:51,649 The last time I saw her, 595 00:33:51,732 --> 00:33:54,232 she brought over a bottle of Scotch 596 00:33:54,315 --> 00:33:57,440 and we just, like, talked for hours. 597 00:33:57,524 --> 00:33:59,399 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 598 00:34:01,273 --> 00:34:02,982 (TIRES SCREECHING) 599 00:34:05,774 --> 00:34:06,857 I was like, "Man, 600 00:34:06,941 --> 00:34:09,023 she is really in the thick of things." 601 00:34:09,107 --> 00:34:12,732 And I didn't know that there were whole, like, 602 00:34:12,816 --> 00:34:15,607 groups of days where she wasn't even leaving the house. 603 00:34:18,107 --> 00:34:20,941 When you're writing a book, all you think about 604 00:34:21,023 --> 00:34:23,273 is whatever you're writing about. 605 00:34:24,899 --> 00:34:30,315 But then she-- how to, like, shut off all that darkness. 606 00:34:32,732 --> 00:34:37,732 I honestly don't know how she lived the horror of that 607 00:34:37,816 --> 00:34:39,774 day after day after day. 608 00:34:39,857 --> 00:34:42,649 ♪ (MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 609 00:34:44,691 --> 00:34:46,816 MICHELLE: "How often do you think of him?" 610 00:34:47,732 --> 00:34:48,941 What can I say? 611 00:34:49,023 --> 00:34:51,857 -The truth is, all the time. -(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKS) 612 00:34:53,148 --> 00:34:55,899 When I climb the stairs to my bedroom. 613 00:34:55,982 --> 00:34:58,023 When I'm folding laundry. 614 00:34:58,107 --> 00:35:01,148 -(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKS) -The truth? Too much. 615 00:35:05,482 --> 00:35:07,524 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 616 00:35:15,315 --> 00:35:17,732 So this morning, the FBI, has launched a campaign 617 00:35:17,816 --> 00:35:18,982 to help the working group 618 00:35:19,065 --> 00:35:21,482 generate new tips from the public. 619 00:35:21,565 --> 00:35:25,440 The FBI is offering a reward of up to 50,000 dollars 620 00:35:25,524 --> 00:35:28,107 for information leading to the identification, 621 00:35:28,190 --> 00:35:31,857 arrest, and conviction of the Golden State Killer. 622 00:35:34,524 --> 00:35:36,565 HOLES: You could directly attribute 623 00:35:36,649 --> 00:35:39,273 going public with it at that point 624 00:35:39,357 --> 00:35:43,148 with the public attention that Michelle was able to bring 625 00:35:43,232 --> 00:35:44,565 to the case. 626 00:35:45,982 --> 00:35:49,148 Because now, there was enough people across the nation 627 00:35:49,232 --> 00:35:52,023 who would be paying attention. "Golden State Killer? 628 00:35:52,107 --> 00:35:54,440 I know about that case." 629 00:35:54,524 --> 00:35:58,315 So there was sort of momentum within Agency's recognizing, 630 00:35:58,399 --> 00:36:01,565 "We need to get this done," you know, sooner than later. 631 00:36:04,107 --> 00:36:08,107 And then, in that first quarter of 2018, 632 00:36:08,190 --> 00:36:10,649 I received the Golden State Killer's 633 00:36:10,732 --> 00:36:12,732 digital DNA profile. 634 00:36:13,691 --> 00:36:15,524 Things snowballed from there. 635 00:36:16,607 --> 00:36:18,816 I reached out to this genetic genealogist, 636 00:36:18,899 --> 00:36:20,691 Barbara Rae-Venter. 637 00:36:20,774 --> 00:36:23,607 BARBARA RAE-VENTER: When I worked on a forty-year-old cold case, 638 00:36:23,691 --> 00:36:26,607 it was written up in Forensic Magazine. 639 00:36:26,691 --> 00:36:29,482 And Paul Holes saw that article. 640 00:36:29,565 --> 00:36:30,982 And so he called me, 641 00:36:31,065 --> 00:36:33,315 and he just asked if I would be willing to work 642 00:36:33,399 --> 00:36:35,524 on one of his cold cases with him. 643 00:36:35,607 --> 00:36:37,107 And, uh, so I said, 644 00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:40,440 yes, I would be, you know, pleased to do that. 645 00:36:40,524 --> 00:36:43,190 HOLES: A DNA profile is nothing but a series of numbers. 646 00:36:43,273 --> 00:36:44,857 And so it's something that can be put 647 00:36:44,941 --> 00:36:47,023 into a relational database and searched 648 00:36:47,107 --> 00:36:49,023 to see if you can find individuals 649 00:36:49,107 --> 00:36:52,148 that share DNA with each other. 650 00:36:54,273 --> 00:36:57,023 What you're looking for, then, is three people, 651 00:36:57,107 --> 00:36:59,357 your unknown person and the other two people, 652 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,774 who are matching on that same segment of DNA. 653 00:37:02,857 --> 00:37:04,023 And if they do, 654 00:37:04,107 --> 00:37:07,649 then you know they all have the same ancestry. 655 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,357 We've got over a thousand matches. 656 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,482 But the biggest match was, at best, 657 00:37:14,565 --> 00:37:15,691 a third-cousin match. 658 00:37:15,774 --> 00:37:18,107 It's probably more like a fourth-cousin match. 659 00:37:18,190 --> 00:37:21,774 So you're talking about distant, distant cousins. 660 00:37:21,857 --> 00:37:25,816 So we were no-- nowhere in a good zone here. 661 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,691 HOLES: Our top hits, 662 00:37:28,774 --> 00:37:31,065 well, if they're a third cousin of the Golden State Killer, 663 00:37:31,148 --> 00:37:32,941 that means their common ancestor 664 00:37:33,023 --> 00:37:35,857 is on the order of a great-great grandparent, 665 00:37:35,941 --> 00:37:38,315 people who were born in the 1840s. 666 00:37:39,649 --> 00:37:43,399 So I have to build their family trees back in time, 667 00:37:43,482 --> 00:37:45,899 identify each of their parents, their grandparents, 668 00:37:45,982 --> 00:37:48,190 their great-grandparents, their great-great grandparents, 669 00:37:48,273 --> 00:37:50,315 and see if they intersect. 670 00:37:51,273 --> 00:37:54,857 And if they do, theoretically, 671 00:37:54,941 --> 00:37:58,774 my Golden State Killer is a descendant 672 00:37:58,857 --> 00:38:00,524 of that common ancestor. 673 00:38:00,607 --> 00:38:03,732 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 674 00:38:03,816 --> 00:38:04,941 BARBARA: You then start doing 675 00:38:05,023 --> 00:38:06,899 what's called "reverse tree-building" 676 00:38:06,982 --> 00:38:09,065 because you're now coming forward in time 677 00:38:09,148 --> 00:38:11,982 trying to find all of the descendants 678 00:38:12,065 --> 00:38:14,691 of whoever the common ancestor is. 679 00:38:16,315 --> 00:38:19,148 HOLES: It took months of building family trees, 680 00:38:19,232 --> 00:38:24,941 but we eventually identified all descendants that would fit 681 00:38:25,023 --> 00:38:28,691 within the criteria of the case. 682 00:38:28,774 --> 00:38:31,607 Which individuals had the physical characteristics, 683 00:38:31,691 --> 00:38:35,107 you know, 5'8" to 5'10", 160, 180 pounds, 684 00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:36,774 back in the 1970s? 685 00:38:36,857 --> 00:38:39,148 Which individuals have the geographic connections 686 00:38:39,232 --> 00:38:41,524 that we know that the Golden State Killer had? 687 00:38:42,691 --> 00:38:45,607 BARBARA: And so we managed to come up with nine men 688 00:38:45,691 --> 00:38:47,565 who were in California, 689 00:38:47,649 --> 00:38:49,899 who were approximately the right age. 690 00:38:51,524 --> 00:38:53,565 HOLES: And then, there was one individual 691 00:38:53,649 --> 00:38:55,982 who-- who's living in Colorado of all places, 692 00:38:56,065 --> 00:38:57,607 who I got very excited about. 693 00:38:57,691 --> 00:38:59,982 He was somebody that was in the construction industry. 694 00:39:00,065 --> 00:39:02,440 He had two uncles living in Cordova Meadows 695 00:39:02,524 --> 00:39:04,565 at the time those attacks were occurring there. 696 00:39:04,649 --> 00:39:06,649 And when one of those uncles moves down to Stockton, 697 00:39:06,732 --> 00:39:08,482 now you have the East Area Rapist 698 00:39:08,565 --> 00:39:12,273 attacking in Stockton. And that uncle bought a house 699 00:39:12,357 --> 00:39:14,565 from where Gay Hardwick worked. 700 00:39:15,565 --> 00:39:17,732 And I'm just thinking, "Holy smokes, 701 00:39:17,816 --> 00:39:20,065 what is the coincidence of something like that?" 702 00:39:20,148 --> 00:39:22,023 MICHELLE: You still think maybe the building 703 00:39:22,107 --> 00:39:23,315 or construction stuff? 704 00:39:23,399 --> 00:39:26,357 HOLES: I think that's a-- a possibility, yeah. 705 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,691 We ended up asking his sister, 706 00:39:28,774 --> 00:39:30,816 "Are you willing to give a DNA sample?" 707 00:39:30,899 --> 00:39:32,440 And she absolutely was. 708 00:39:36,899 --> 00:39:41,023 Turns out, this guy living in Colorado is not the guy. 709 00:39:41,107 --> 00:39:43,482 And I was going, "Oh, my God, I've got all this stuff 710 00:39:43,565 --> 00:39:45,482 that's adding up that he's the guy." 711 00:39:45,565 --> 00:39:48,190 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 712 00:39:48,273 --> 00:39:51,941 And that was this constant roller-coaster ride 713 00:39:52,023 --> 00:39:55,524 of putting the time and effort, getting in that obsessive state, 714 00:39:55,607 --> 00:39:58,899 just to be crushed because the DNA didn't come back 715 00:39:58,982 --> 00:40:00,982 the way that you thought it was going to be. 716 00:40:01,065 --> 00:40:02,565 And I thought, "Oh, this is the guy." 717 00:40:02,649 --> 00:40:04,732 And then getting back in the saddle and doing it 718 00:40:04,816 --> 00:40:06,315 over and over again. 719 00:40:08,107 --> 00:40:09,357 It's just crushing 720 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,399 because I just go, "What have I just done 721 00:40:11,482 --> 00:40:13,774 for the last two years of my life?" 722 00:40:18,691 --> 00:40:20,899 MICHELLE: There's this analogy where most people, I guess, 723 00:40:20,982 --> 00:40:23,065 who get lost in the forest die 724 00:40:23,148 --> 00:40:26,691 because they won't change direction. 725 00:40:26,774 --> 00:40:27,982 I understand that, 726 00:40:28,065 --> 00:40:29,649 because I've now committed myself 727 00:40:29,732 --> 00:40:31,440 -so much to this guy... -(FEMALE INTERVIEWER CHUCKLING) 728 00:40:31,524 --> 00:40:33,857 ...that, goddammit, it can't be that I don't find him. 729 00:40:33,941 --> 00:40:35,232 -Like... -FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Right. 730 00:40:35,315 --> 00:40:37,232 MICHELLE: He's taken over my life. 731 00:40:37,315 --> 00:40:40,273 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 732 00:40:44,607 --> 00:40:47,273 MELANIE: I've lived my life often not taking 733 00:40:47,357 --> 00:40:50,691 excellent care of myself in many ways. 734 00:40:52,649 --> 00:40:56,607 And I think sometimes maybe living vicariously 735 00:40:56,691 --> 00:40:59,691 through other situations or dealing with this case, 736 00:40:59,774 --> 00:41:02,649 that it's helped me avoid my own traumas. 737 00:41:05,857 --> 00:41:08,691 Michelle knew about my experiences. 738 00:41:13,524 --> 00:41:14,315 MELANIE: 739 00:41:14,399 --> 00:41:18,565 -MICHELLE: Oh my god. -MELANIE: 740 00:41:18,649 --> 00:41:21,065 MICHELLE: 741 00:41:21,148 --> 00:41:24,440 I never addressed it. I did not tell my parents. 742 00:41:24,524 --> 00:41:28,065 I did not, um, file a police report. 743 00:41:31,482 --> 00:41:34,816 And when I was much older, I actually called his residence 744 00:41:34,899 --> 00:41:37,816 to hear his voice. I was going to confront him. 745 00:41:37,899 --> 00:41:40,232 And I changed my mind. 746 00:41:43,399 --> 00:41:46,607 But that anger still resides. 747 00:41:48,565 --> 00:41:53,649 And I think that that gave me the strength and the ambition 748 00:41:53,732 --> 00:41:55,440 to solve this case. 749 00:41:58,857 --> 00:42:03,649 And Michelle, uh, had that same common ground. 750 00:42:03,732 --> 00:42:05,732 MICHELLE: I worked in Northern Ireland for a year 751 00:42:05,816 --> 00:42:10,565 after college, and I-- my boss basically-- same thing happened. 752 00:42:11,732 --> 00:42:14,691 MELANIE: She didn't go into great detail. 753 00:42:14,774 --> 00:42:18,107 And I look at Michelle as maybe somebody who... 754 00:42:18,190 --> 00:42:22,315 it was easier for her to be looking at this investigation 755 00:42:22,399 --> 00:42:26,190 than dealing with whatever her issues were 756 00:42:26,273 --> 00:42:28,190 in her personal life, 757 00:42:28,273 --> 00:42:30,607 but that it may have overtook her. 758 00:42:31,816 --> 00:42:35,107 And when you're in fight-or-flight 759 00:42:35,190 --> 00:42:37,857 or freeze-or-fold in trauma, 760 00:42:37,941 --> 00:42:40,982 a very easy way to escape that feeling 761 00:42:41,065 --> 00:42:45,691 is to self-medicate and not feel. 762 00:42:45,774 --> 00:42:48,649 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 763 00:42:56,816 --> 00:42:58,774 MICHELLE: (READS) 764 00:43:02,315 --> 00:43:07,315 It's darkness that covers everything I see, do, or touch 765 00:43:07,399 --> 00:43:10,440 with moments of light and happiness. 766 00:43:12,524 --> 00:43:15,816 I try to stay with those moments as much as possible. 767 00:43:16,774 --> 00:43:18,190 (READS) 768 00:43:19,774 --> 00:43:23,148 I probably do have a chemical-based depression. 769 00:43:23,232 --> 00:43:26,982 But I can't spend my life battling this darkness, 770 00:43:27,065 --> 00:43:29,607 this obsession with lies and dishonesty 771 00:43:29,691 --> 00:43:33,148 and injustice and ugliness and cruelty. 772 00:43:33,232 --> 00:43:37,524 It's like everything is pressing against my back, 773 00:43:37,607 --> 00:43:39,232 forcing me down. 774 00:43:40,732 --> 00:43:43,482 (READS) 775 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:46,607 The surprising thing is 776 00:43:46,691 --> 00:43:49,649 I feel like I've known this for a long time, 777 00:43:49,732 --> 00:43:51,357 since I was a little kid, 778 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,607 that I had this sense of loss, 779 00:43:53,691 --> 00:43:57,982 this heightened attentiveness to pain and depression. 780 00:43:59,399 --> 00:44:01,649 (READS) 781 00:44:05,982 --> 00:44:07,524 I'm sorry. 782 00:44:07,607 --> 00:44:08,982 I've always been sorry, 783 00:44:09,065 --> 00:44:11,148 even if I haven't shown it well enough. 784 00:44:13,524 --> 00:44:15,899 (READS) 785 00:44:17,816 --> 00:44:20,732 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 786 00:44:23,232 --> 00:44:26,565 KAREN: Her death was a terrible accident. 787 00:44:28,357 --> 00:44:31,607 I think it points toward how self-medicated 788 00:44:31,691 --> 00:44:33,816 our whole culture has become, 789 00:44:33,899 --> 00:44:36,982 whether it's with food or with drugs or with drinking 790 00:44:37,065 --> 00:44:39,774 or with any kind of escapism. 791 00:44:40,565 --> 00:44:43,315 There's a lot to escape. 792 00:44:43,399 --> 00:44:46,023 You know what I mean? This is clearly a psychopath, right, 793 00:44:46,107 --> 00:44:48,065 somebody that just simply does-- is not connected 794 00:44:48,148 --> 00:44:50,524 and does not care about other human beings in any way. 795 00:44:50,607 --> 00:44:52,232 HOLES: No, he doesn't. He's out there for his own... 796 00:44:52,315 --> 00:44:56,649 And I would say true crime is probably on the, 797 00:44:56,732 --> 00:44:58,691 uh, lighter end of the spectrum. 798 00:44:58,774 --> 00:45:01,691 As a severe blackout alcoholic, 799 00:45:01,774 --> 00:45:04,190 I know that I've done things I-- 800 00:45:04,273 --> 00:45:06,691 that I wish I had True Crime Podcast to listen to, 801 00:45:06,774 --> 00:45:08,982 to avoid my problems when I was in my 20s. 802 00:45:09,065 --> 00:45:11,691 I think this one's disturbing 'cause it's like a bit, 803 00:45:11,774 --> 00:45:15,023 it's an entire family that's dead, you know, for some people. 804 00:45:15,107 --> 00:45:16,691 A lot of people kind of recoil 805 00:45:16,774 --> 00:45:18,982 at the whole trend of true crime. 806 00:45:19,899 --> 00:45:21,941 At first you-- it feels morbid. 807 00:45:22,023 --> 00:45:23,565 You feel like you're rubbernecking 808 00:45:23,649 --> 00:45:25,399 on someone else's tragedy. 809 00:45:26,899 --> 00:45:29,565 But underneath that, there is this sense of... 810 00:45:29,649 --> 00:45:32,565 everybody is doing their best, working overtime, 811 00:45:32,649 --> 00:45:35,065 sitting at their desk until the middle of the night 812 00:45:35,148 --> 00:45:36,273 trying to find justice 813 00:45:36,357 --> 00:45:39,273 for people who can't do it for themselves anymore. 814 00:45:41,982 --> 00:45:44,065 JENNIFER BARTH: I think maybe it was, like, four to six months 815 00:45:44,148 --> 00:45:46,315 that we were all working on the book. 816 00:45:47,982 --> 00:45:51,315 Sending it back and forth and agreeing to cuts. 817 00:45:54,482 --> 00:45:57,357 By the time we got to publication week, 818 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,857 we knew interest in the book was building. 819 00:46:05,982 --> 00:46:08,857 DANIEL: It hit on a Tuesday, and... 820 00:46:08,941 --> 00:46:12,565 it debuted at number one on the New York Times list. 821 00:46:12,649 --> 00:46:15,941 And I have not had reviews like that 822 00:46:16,023 --> 00:46:18,023 for any book in my career. 823 00:46:28,691 --> 00:46:30,857 I mean, it just went bananas. 824 00:46:32,107 --> 00:46:33,565 KAREN: It's such an exciting thing 825 00:46:33,649 --> 00:46:35,774 that this book exists right now. 826 00:46:35,857 --> 00:46:38,273 MICHELLE: Really, I'm very excited about it. 827 00:46:38,357 --> 00:46:39,857 I've always wanted to write a book, 828 00:46:39,941 --> 00:46:41,941 but it always seemed like one of those unattainable things 829 00:46:42,023 --> 00:46:44,148 that wouldn't actually happen. 830 00:46:44,232 --> 00:46:47,524 So, I want this book to have an impact. 831 00:46:49,774 --> 00:46:52,691 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 832 00:46:57,941 --> 00:47:02,774 KAREN: The level of writing is so incredibly impressive. 833 00:47:04,357 --> 00:47:08,107 But also, there's something very alive about this book, 834 00:47:08,190 --> 00:47:10,774 -you know what I mean? Like... -PATTON: No, no, I get it, yeah. 835 00:47:10,857 --> 00:47:14,357 I would read a couple of pages and I would lose my shit 836 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:15,982 because her voice was right there. 837 00:47:16,065 --> 00:47:17,440 She was right there. 838 00:47:18,565 --> 00:47:21,899 It was a very, very hard, difficult process. 839 00:47:29,065 --> 00:47:31,273 And there's also-- it was very bittersweet for me 840 00:47:31,357 --> 00:47:33,482 because I knew that I wouldn't be able to live 841 00:47:33,565 --> 00:47:34,899 and go on with life 842 00:47:34,982 --> 00:47:36,774 if this was left undone. 843 00:47:36,857 --> 00:47:39,649 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 844 00:47:39,732 --> 00:47:41,565 But not having the book done 845 00:47:41,649 --> 00:47:44,023 meant that part of her was still around. 846 00:47:44,107 --> 00:47:45,357 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 847 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,357 You know, so I'm happy for her and for her memory, 848 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,607 but it's another form of saying goodbye. 849 00:47:53,273 --> 00:47:56,232 (APPLAUSE) 850 00:48:09,107 --> 00:48:12,065 I'm very aware that when you engage with true crime, 851 00:48:12,148 --> 00:48:14,857 you are picking around and becoming a consumer 852 00:48:14,941 --> 00:48:17,816 -of other people's tragedy. -Yes. Yeah. 853 00:48:17,899 --> 00:48:20,357 And so, I remember very early on, 854 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,565 finding True Crime Blog and thinking, like, 855 00:48:23,649 --> 00:48:26,399 "Okay, I've found my person." 856 00:48:26,482 --> 00:48:27,440 Right. 857 00:48:27,524 --> 00:48:30,440 GILLIAN FLYNN: And the fact that Michelle 858 00:48:30,524 --> 00:48:34,232 was willing to get out there and do the actual detective work, 859 00:48:34,315 --> 00:48:36,023 I sit in amazement of. 860 00:48:36,107 --> 00:48:38,357 So, I'm curious, can you tell me, 861 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,732 are you all still looking for him? 862 00:48:40,816 --> 00:48:42,273 -PATTON: Yeah. -BILLY: Oh, absolutely, yeah. 863 00:48:42,357 --> 00:48:44,190 HAYNES: A DNA profile is as concrete 864 00:48:44,273 --> 00:48:46,232 a piece of information as you can have, 865 00:48:46,315 --> 00:48:47,399 aside from his name. 866 00:48:47,482 --> 00:48:50,148 So, it feels to me like it's only a matter of time. 867 00:48:51,357 --> 00:48:53,232 PATTON: Hand up right there, yeah. 868 00:48:53,315 --> 00:48:55,440 MAN: I'm a father of a nine-year-old girl, 869 00:48:55,524 --> 00:48:57,899 and I'm curious what your daughter's notion 870 00:48:57,982 --> 00:49:02,190 of your late wife's body of work is. 871 00:49:02,273 --> 00:49:03,607 Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm-- I'm-- 872 00:49:03,691 --> 00:49:05,315 -My daughter is also nine. -MAN: Mm-hmm. 873 00:49:05,399 --> 00:49:08,649 -So, my condolences. Um... -(LAUGHTER) 874 00:49:08,732 --> 00:49:10,148 You know, when she's older, 875 00:49:10,232 --> 00:49:12,148 absolutely I hope she reads her book. 876 00:49:12,232 --> 00:49:13,982 I also just had-- I found a collection 877 00:49:14,065 --> 00:49:17,774 of different, um, poems, and short stories, 878 00:49:17,857 --> 00:49:21,273 and, um, essays that Michelle had written 879 00:49:21,357 --> 00:49:23,273 all through high school and college, 880 00:49:23,357 --> 00:49:25,232 and I went to a professional bookbinder, 881 00:49:25,315 --> 00:49:26,524 and I had those all bound up 882 00:49:26,607 --> 00:49:29,190 so that when she gets to high school and college, 883 00:49:29,273 --> 00:49:32,607 I'm like, "If you want to see how your mom was at your age," 884 00:49:32,691 --> 00:49:36,023 I have them so that I can parcel those out for her. 885 00:49:38,899 --> 00:49:40,982 And I've saved, like, every photograph 886 00:49:41,065 --> 00:49:42,982 and bit of video of her. 887 00:49:43,065 --> 00:49:44,857 MICHELLE: Yeah, I mean, I have a theory that there's... 888 00:49:44,982 --> 00:49:48,023 a serial killer operating in the Northwest 889 00:49:48,107 --> 00:49:49,857 who is killing couples. 890 00:49:49,941 --> 00:49:52,899 CAMERON CLOUTIER: How did you become interested in this case? 891 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,607 (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) 892 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,816 (PHONE RINGS) 893 00:50:04,899 --> 00:50:07,565 -PATTON: Oh, what's going on? -MARY RITA: Alice. 894 00:50:08,732 --> 00:50:11,315 PATTON: But, you know, five days after Michelle died, 895 00:50:11,399 --> 00:50:15,941 I remember Alice said, "When your mom dies, 896 00:50:16,023 --> 00:50:17,982 you're the best memory of her. 897 00:50:18,065 --> 00:50:20,190 Everything you do is a memory of her." 898 00:50:20,273 --> 00:50:21,565 Hang on, I wanna find somebody, okay? 899 00:50:21,649 --> 00:50:23,273 So I'm also gonna always remind her 900 00:50:23,357 --> 00:50:24,524 that she's here right now 901 00:50:24,607 --> 00:50:27,440 because of how you are and how you're acting. 902 00:50:27,524 --> 00:50:31,190 What are you doing? Oh my god, you're a nut. 903 00:50:31,273 --> 00:50:32,899 We will talk soon. I'll call you tomorrow 904 00:50:32,982 --> 00:50:34,774 when I'm in New York, okay, baby? 905 00:50:34,857 --> 00:50:36,732 Bye-bye. 906 00:50:36,816 --> 00:50:38,649 -Bye. -ALICE: Bye. 907 00:50:47,857 --> 00:50:49,941 HAYNES: After the book event that night, 908 00:50:50,023 --> 00:50:53,357 I was ready to just go back to my room and collapse. 909 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,691 (PHONE VIBRATING) 910 00:50:56,774 --> 00:50:59,107 Then I get back up to my room and I get a text. 911 00:50:59,941 --> 00:51:01,065 (MESSAGE PINGS) 912 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,607 (MESSAGE PINGS) 913 00:51:08,774 --> 00:51:09,857 (MESSAGE PINGS) 914 00:51:13,482 --> 00:51:16,732 HOLES: After we eliminated the guy in Colorado, 915 00:51:16,816 --> 00:51:19,190 we only had a handful of males that were-- 916 00:51:19,273 --> 00:51:22,148 we ended up having to kind of look at. 917 00:51:22,232 --> 00:51:25,273 BARBARA: I was also doing a lot of stuff with newspapers. 918 00:51:25,357 --> 00:51:29,232 And one of-- one of the news articles 919 00:51:29,315 --> 00:51:34,357 that turned up was the arrest of a police officer 920 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,315 shoplifting dog repellant and a hammer in Citrus Heights. 921 00:51:39,399 --> 00:51:40,857 I remember looking at it and thinking, 922 00:51:40,941 --> 00:51:42,565 "This guy looks awfully good." 923 00:51:42,649 --> 00:51:45,816 And so I immediately sent off an email to Paul Holes, 924 00:51:45,899 --> 00:51:47,982 saying, "Has this guy been ruled out?" 925 00:51:50,148 --> 00:51:51,399 And he hadn't. 926 00:51:51,482 --> 00:51:53,899 He was in our hotlist of six people 927 00:51:53,982 --> 00:51:55,524 that was left at the end. 928 00:51:57,232 --> 00:51:58,357 (MESSAGE PINGS) 929 00:52:00,941 --> 00:52:02,023 (MESSAGE PINGS) 930 00:52:03,065 --> 00:52:05,732 HAYNES: I immediately opened my master list. 931 00:52:05,816 --> 00:52:08,982 I didn't have anybody that met those characteristics. 932 00:52:10,399 --> 00:52:11,607 (MESSAGE PINGS) 933 00:52:11,691 --> 00:52:13,816 You know, I've heard this before, 934 00:52:13,899 --> 00:52:16,649 so I kinda took it with a grain of salt. 935 00:52:16,732 --> 00:52:19,065 But now, I'm, like, waiting for updates. 936 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,023 HOLES: I wanted to look at this guy closer. 937 00:52:24,107 --> 00:52:26,691 And so I drove and parked on the curb 938 00:52:26,774 --> 00:52:29,732 opposite from his house and sat there. 939 00:52:29,816 --> 00:52:32,857 And I started thinking about, "What do we know about him?" 940 00:52:35,065 --> 00:52:37,357 And I started thinking about the ex-fiancée 941 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,065 with first name of Bonnie. 942 00:52:40,357 --> 00:52:42,982 He had also purchased a gun 943 00:52:43,065 --> 00:52:46,357 down in a town right outside of Visalia. 944 00:52:47,941 --> 00:52:50,899 And then in 1985, '86, 945 00:52:50,982 --> 00:52:54,107 he had a daughter born down in Los Angeles County. 946 00:52:54,190 --> 00:52:56,982 And so his geographic connections 947 00:52:57,065 --> 00:52:58,857 were looking pretty good. 948 00:53:00,107 --> 00:53:02,148 BARBARA: I'd also run the profile 949 00:53:02,232 --> 00:53:05,065 through another site called Promethease, 950 00:53:05,148 --> 00:53:08,399 and I determined that the person that we were looking for 951 00:53:08,482 --> 00:53:09,524 had blue eyes. 952 00:53:09,607 --> 00:53:12,482 And it also said he would be prematurely bald. 953 00:53:12,565 --> 00:53:15,357 So at that point, law enforcement then pulls 954 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,065 the California driver's license records 955 00:53:17,148 --> 00:53:19,148 for the six people on our list. 956 00:53:20,065 --> 00:53:22,065 Only one man has blue eyes, 957 00:53:23,107 --> 00:53:24,607 Joseph DeAngelo. 958 00:53:26,691 --> 00:53:27,774 (MESSAGE PINGS) 959 00:53:28,857 --> 00:53:29,941 (MESSAGE PINGS) 960 00:53:31,273 --> 00:53:34,607 BILLY: I wake up, and I see a message. 961 00:53:35,482 --> 00:53:37,273 (MESSAGES PING) 962 00:53:38,232 --> 00:53:39,607 He's in custody. 963 00:53:41,982 --> 00:53:45,440 So, I'm like, "Oh, shit. Okay. He's in custody." 964 00:53:46,774 --> 00:53:48,065 (PHONE VIBRATES) 965 00:53:48,148 --> 00:53:50,524 I remember wandering through the room like a zombie, 966 00:53:50,607 --> 00:53:53,732 just like, "Is he caught?" What just happened?" 967 00:53:53,816 --> 00:53:54,982 (MESSAGE PINGS) 968 00:54:00,315 --> 00:54:01,857 HOLES: It's crazy. 969 00:54:01,941 --> 00:54:05,023 After four decades of searching for this guy, 970 00:54:05,107 --> 00:54:07,607 it came down to testing a piece of tissue 971 00:54:07,691 --> 00:54:09,482 from his trashcan outside. 972 00:54:12,232 --> 00:54:16,524 It was a 100% match to the Golden State Killer's DNA. 973 00:54:20,399 --> 00:54:22,732 -BILLY: All right, Patton. -Hmm? 974 00:54:22,816 --> 00:54:25,232 BILLY: I just texted you. You heard the news. 975 00:54:25,315 --> 00:54:27,357 -Yes. -BILLY: What are you thinking? 976 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:32,107 I'm thinking way too much stuff right now. 977 00:54:32,399 --> 00:54:33,482 Um... 978 00:54:34,482 --> 00:54:37,524 I just, you know, I-- I-- I would-- 979 00:54:37,607 --> 00:54:39,399 I wish you were pointing that camera 980 00:54:39,482 --> 00:54:41,524 at Michelle right now, and not me. 981 00:54:42,857 --> 00:54:45,357 I hope they got him. I hope she got him. 982 00:54:55,148 --> 00:54:58,482 ♪ (MUSIC PLAYING) ♪