>> winans: I've always been passionate about writing songs. I've never been passionate about
singing.
Singing was a vehicle to get my
songs out there on the airwaves.
And so I had a wonderful 10
years of just writing songs and
and so I had a wonderful 10 years of just writing songs and being behind the camera.
Years of just writing songs and being behind the camera. So, in 1997, when it was my
turn to record, I joined the
so, in 1997, when it was my turn to record, I joined the team over at atlantic records,
and we did my first solo album.
Team over at atlantic records, and we did my first solo album. I had fun doing it.
And we did my first solo album. I had fun doing it. I've never toured any of my solo
projects.
I became allergic to the word
"tour."
I'm still -- [ laughs ]
I'm allergic to that word.
Uh...
But enjoyable.
But I have to be honest, every
but enjoyable. But I have to be honest, every time me and cece get on the
but I have to be honest, every time me and cece get on the stage, that's the most joy I get
out of singing.
Stage, that's the most joy I get out of singing. You know, I do thinks now that I
just enjoy.
It has to be fun, or I just
choose not to be involved.
♪
-- captions by vitac -- www.Vitac.Com
[ static ] [ static ] I remember a couple of years ago
I thought I would interview my
mom, and so I just asked her
questions such as, you know,
"when you were younger and
hanging out with your
girlfriends, did you want 10
kids?"
and she said, "no, I wanted
two."
and I was like, "two?"
because I'm number seven.
And I was like, "two?" because I'm number seven. And I was like, "well, mama, why
you have all them kids?"
and I was like, "well, mama, why you have all them kids?" she said, "well, your father
loved [bleep]."
this interview is over.
Loved [bleep]." this interview is over. But they had 10 kids simply
because the church that my mom
but they had 10 kids simply because the church that my mom joined when she married my
father were against birth
control.
Father were against birth control. Birth control was a sin.
Control. Birth control was a sin. Everything was a sin in that
birth control was a sin. Everything was a sin in that church.
And she was an obedient wife and
she ended up having 10 children.
It...Causes my knees to buckle
when I think about that.
It's like, "you are a saint."
♪
it's like, "you are a saint." ♪ >> you never do what you do for
awards, but when you're
recognized, it's pretty awesome
to know that people have
been blessed by your music, but
also they're putting you in a
category where your music has
made a change, it's made a
difference.
Made a change, it's made a difference. >> winans: I've learned over the
years that people outside of the
family love to but labels on
you, you know?
Family love to but labels on you, you know? The prince of gospel, the queen
of --
the prince of gospel, the queen of -- we didn't try to become the
first family of gospel, and we
still don't think we are.
First family of gospel, and we still don't think we are. But my household was full of --
full of music.
My dad and mom sang.
Full of music. My dad and mom sang. My dad sang with sam cooke and
my dad and mom sang. My dad sang with sam cooke and various other singers, and my
my dad sang with sam cooke and various other singers, and my mom was an incredible singer.
Various other singers, and my mom was an incredible singer. So, exactly that's how they met.
Mom was an incredible singer. So, exactly that's how they met. They met in the
so, exactly that's how they met. They met in the lemon gospel chorus.
My mom was two years younger
than my father, and he joined
my mom was two years younger than my father, and he joined the chorus simply because there
was some very nice-looking girls
in the chorus.
Was some very nice-looking girls in the chorus. And my mom used to play the
piano for the chorus as well, so
and my mom used to play the piano for the chorus as well, so music has always been in my
family.
Music has always been in my family. We didn't know that it would
become our careers and our
we didn't know that it would become our careers and our lifestyle, but it was something
we enjoyed.
Lifestyle, but it was something we enjoyed. We enjoyed going to church.
We enjoyed. We enjoyed going to church. We went to a church that was
we enjoyed going to church. We went to a church that was full of life, full of music.
So, honestly, if my mother
wanted to punish us, she would
so, honestly, if my mother wanted to punish us, she would say, "I'm not taking y'all to
church."
we'd said, "aw, ma, we'll clean
our rooms.
We'd said, "aw, ma, we'll clean our rooms. We'll do everything we're
supposed to do," because church
we'll do everything we're supposed to do," because church was fun for us.
Supposed to do," because church was fun for us. ♪
we enjoyed every minute we were
in church.
We enjoyed every minute we were in church. And to this day, it's been my
foundation through the storms
and to this day, it's been my foundation through the storms and through everything that, you
know, life brings.
And through everything that, you know, life brings. Uh...
Know, life brings. Uh... So, that's the kind of household
uh... So, that's the kind of household we -- you know, having those
so, that's the kind of household we -- you know, having those many children, you -- you know,
christmas was not about a gift.
Many children, you -- you know, christmas was not about a gift. [ chuckles ]
you didn't get gifts.
The gifts was jesus.
You didn't get gifts. The gifts was jesus. That was enough.
And so, you know, but music,
that was enough. And so, you know, but music, christmastime or whenever, we
and so, you know, but music, christmastime or whenever, we loved being a part.
Christmastime or whenever, we loved being a part. And my father saw that early on,
decided to buy a piano, and we
and my father saw that early on, decided to buy a piano, and we made a lot of noise.
Decided to buy a piano, and we made a lot of noise. Let's just say that.
Made a lot of noise. Let's just say that. ♪
let's just say that. ♪ not many people know me as
benjamin glenn.
Not many people know me as benjamin glenn. But that's who I was when I was
born the son of david
but that's who I was when I was born the son of david and delores glenn in 1962.
Born the son of david and delores glenn in 1962. Glenn because my father's
parents were not married and,
glenn because my father's parents were not married and, to be honest, he, my
grandfather, said my father
wasn't his.
Grandfather, said my father wasn't his. And it was a scandal, real
scandal, back then.
But my father had a wonderful
relationship with his
but my father had a wonderful relationship with his grandfather, isaiah w. Winans.
Relationship with his grandfather, isaiah w. Winans. The "w" stood for wise.
Grandfather, isaiah w. Winans. The "w" stood for wise. And before my great-grandfather
the "w" stood for wise. And before my great-grandfather passed away, he asked my father
and before my great-grandfather passed away, he asked my father to change his name, that he
wanted the name winans to live
in the earth after he left the
earth.
In the earth after he left the earth. And my father did just that.
Earth. And my father did just that. Marched us down to the
and my father did just that. Marched us down to the courthouse and changed our names
marched us down to the courthouse and changed our names from glenn to winans.
Courthouse and changed our names from glenn to winans. So, the first winans born in my
family was cece.
♪
we had a father and a mother in
the household, and we had
parents that cared about us.
The household, and we had parents that cared about us. We had parents that were living
examples of what love is.
You know?
Examples of what love is. You know? And so we carried that to
you know? And so we carried that to school.
A lot of kids thought we were
kind of crazy because they would
a lot of kids thought we were kind of crazy because they would invite us to parties and we
would say, "no, but you wanna
come to revival?"
[ chuckles ]
"we got a revival at our
church," you know?
♪
graduated from high school in
1980.
Graduated from high school in 1980. Didn't think -- you know, knew
god would be back before that
didn't think -- you know, knew god would be back before that would happen, and cece actually
graduated with me.
Would happen, and cece actually graduated with me. And a friend of ours named
howard mcqueary spoke to my
and a friend of ours named howard mcqueary spoke to my brothers first and then called
and asked if cece and I would
come audition for the
ptl network.
Come audition for the ptl network. Didn't know what that was.
Ptl network. Didn't know what that was. And my brother marvin said, "no
didn't know what that was. And my brother marvin said, "no way is that going to happen,"
and my brother marvin said, "no way is that going to happen," because my father didn't allow
us to spend the night over at
anyone's house.
Us to spend the night over at anyone's house. So, we went and auditioned.
Anyone's house. So, we went and auditioned. Now, to do that, my mom -- wow.
My mom was an angel.
She took me and my sister on a
my mom was an angel. She took me and my sister on a greyhound bus from detroit,
she took me and my sister on a greyhound bus from detroit, michigan, to charlotte,
north carolina.
Michigan, to charlotte, north carolina. Well, we took the trip.
North carolina. Well, we took the trip. Long story short, came back,
well, we took the trip. Long story short, came back, they called, and I just knew it
long story short, came back, they called, and I just knew it was gonna be good news for all.
They called, and I just knew it was gonna be good news for all. And the news was yes to cece
and no to bebe.
And so that was shattering for
me.
At the same time, my father said
there's no way cece's gonna go
at the same time, my father said there's no way cece's gonna go by herself.
There's no way cece's gonna go by herself. And I just thought, "you know
what?
This is a great opportunity for
cece.
Let's put bebe's feelings
aside," and I asked my father,
let's put bebe's feelings aside," and I asked my father, "if I go down and just get a
job, could cece go and have this
opportunity?"
and he said yes.
Opportunity?" and he said yes. But my brothers were angry
because cece was 15 and I was
but my brothers were angry because cece was 15 and I was only 17 and he was going to
allow her to go.
Only 17 and he was going to allow her to go. So, we knew it had to be the
work of god, because there's
so, we knew it had to be the work of god, because there's just no way this is happening.
Work of god, because there's just no way this is happening. But it did, and I went down and
got a job at the grocery store
but it did, and I went down and got a job at the grocery store so cece could have an
opportunity...That I was passed
up on.
>> winans: I think it was maybe six months after going down to charlotte and cece joining the
ptl singers that howard
approached me and said, "I got
an idea.
Approached me and said, "I got an idea. I want you to sing with the
choir, and cece's going to have
a solo.
Choir, and cece's going to have a solo. And when she gets to a certain
part in the solo, I want you to
and when she gets to a certain part in the solo, I want you to ad lib."
so, "sure. Let's do it."
so, on that morning, cece starts
to sing her solo.
So, on that morning, cece starts to sing her solo. And I say...
To sing her solo. And I say... ♪ whispers of love ♪
and I say... ♪ whispers of love ♪ and after the program,
jim bakker runs over and says,
"who did those whispers?"
and I raised my hand.
And he said, "loved those.
And I raised my hand. And he said, "loved those. You're in the ptl singers.
I was like, "what?
I would've whispered a long time
ago if I'd known that."
and that's how I was drafted
into the ptl singers.
And that's how I was drafted into the ptl singers. And, you know, you have to
understand.
Cece and I, we were not a duet.
Understand. Cece and I, we were not a duet. And after being in the singers
cece and I, we were not a duet. And after being in the singers for maybe four months, jim came
and after being in the singers for maybe four months, jim came to the rehearsal and said, "hey,
I heard this song on the radio
from the motion picture
'an officer and a gentleman.'
and I think if you all change a
couple of words, it'd be
perfect."
and then he looked at me and
said, "I want you, bebe, and
you, cece, to sing it as a
duet."
>> ♪ lord lift us up where we
belong ♪
>> ♪ ah ♪
>> ♪ where the eagles fly ♪
>> winans: And we did, and
that's how cece and I became a
duet.
That's how cece and I became a duet. Um...
Duet. Um... It was almost magical, if I
um... It was almost magical, if I could say that word, because she
it was almost magical, if I could say that word, because she knew and I knew without even
voicing our -- to each other
that this is what we both
wanted.
That this is what we both wanted. Now, that meant us going back
home to detroit and telling my
now, that meant us going back home to detroit and telling my brother daniel that we were no
longer a group.
Brother daniel that we were no longer a group. [ exhales sharply ]
that was a...
That was a rough meeting.
That was a... That was a rough meeting. [ chuckles ]
that was a rough meeting. [ chuckles ] my father was angry because my
father used to always tell us,
you know, family got to stick
together.
You know, family got to stick together. And we knew we were going back
home to say family is saying
and we knew we were going back home to say family is saying goodbye to each other.
Home to say family is saying goodbye to each other. And that was hard to do, but we
both knew it was destined.
♪
when jim came into that room
where we were rehearsing and
gave us -- he gave us a song to
learn and to become...
Gave us -- he gave us a song to learn and to become... You know, I don't think he knew
it was going to become as big
you know, I don't think he knew it was going to become as big as it was for the network.
It was going to become as big as it was for the network. I mean, we sang that song "lord
lift us up where we belong"
every day it looked like for two
or three years.
Every day it looked like for two or three years. They made a lot of money on
that -- that single.
So, they decided to record an
album.
It was a incredible moment,
because I was doing something
it was a incredible moment, because I was doing something I wanted to do for a long time,
and that was record.
♪
I would say 4,000 employees,
four were african-americans --
me and cece and two others.
Four were african-americans -- me and cece and two others. And so I did not know racism
like I learned about racism when
and so I did not know racism like I learned about racism when I arrived in charlotte,
north carolina.
And I was naive.
North carolina. And I was naive. I think I was naive when it came
and I was naive. I think I was naive when it came to people not loving you because
of the color of your skin and
just hating you.
Of the color of your skin and just hating you. But there was one cameraman.
Just hating you. But there was one cameraman. And, you know, my family, we say
but there was one cameraman. And, you know, my family, we say hello with our hands, you know?
We touch you on the shoulder and
say hey and encourage you and
we touch you on the shoulder and say hey and encourage you and pat you on the back and...
Say hey and encourage you and pat you on the back and... And his wife had a history of
miscarriages, so when we learned
and his wife had a history of miscarriages, so when we learned she was pregnant again, you
know, I went up to him and said,
"hey, man, you go have this
baby.
We're here to back you up in
prayer and everything."
we're here to back you up in prayer and everything." they had the baby, and a year or
so later, he was moving on.
They had the baby, and a year or so later, he was moving on. They were moving out of town.
So later, he was moving on. They were moving out of town. And I remember him coming to me.
He was saying goodbye to all the
and I remember him coming to me. He was saying goodbye to all the band and various other people.
He came to me, and he started
crying uncontrollably.
And I was like, you know, "why
you crying so hard?
I mean, I couldn't think of
anything I did for you outside
of praying for you."
um, and then he went on to say,
"I hated you."
he said, "every time you spoke
to me, every time you -- you
would touch me, I would cringe
because my christian parents
taught us to hate black people,
that black people were evil."
and then he went on to say,
"but because of your
consistency, because of the love
you showed me every day, it has
broken the chains of hatred
inside of me, so I wanted to
thank you."
man, what a lesson to learn at
19 years old.
Man, what a lesson to learn at 19 years old. I didn't know if I wanted to hug
him or to hit him.
I chose the former, and -- but I
learned a lesson, that...
Love is more powerful than
hatred.
>> winans: If I had to speak into the that young benjamin's life, I would tell him don't
sign any contracts.
Life, I would tell him don't sign any contracts. [ chuckles ]
and don't be anxious.
I think every artist wants to
display their talent.
And because of that, I think the
industry -- not "I think."
and because of that, I think the industry -- not "I think." I know the industry takes
advantage of the anxiousness,
and sometimes we make mistakes
in not reading or not knowing
what we're stepping into.
In not reading or not knowing what we're stepping into. So I would tell that benjamin
just be patient.
Maybe go to school and become an
attorney, and then get into the
maybe go to school and become an attorney, and then get into the music industry.
Attorney, and then get into the music industry. [ chuckles ]
'cause you don't need to trust
everybody.
That was one of my problems.
>> winans: After cece and I moved back to detroit, michigan, um, you know, life was back to,
you know, trying to figure out
what's the next step.
You know, trying to figure out what's the next step. "ptl" called, and they wanted us
to come back.
And we had decided, okay, they
were gonna give us our freedom
and we had decided, okay, they were gonna give us our freedom to travel as a duet and sing
when we had, you know, offers to
go out.
When we had, you know, offers to go out. But we would be on salary
at "ptl."
but we would be on salary at "ptl." and a week before we were
supposed to leave, they changed
their minds and he did not want
us to come.
Their minds and he did not want us to come. About a week later, the whole
scandal broke out.
♪
jim did not want us to be part
and caught up in the scandal
that blew up about "ptl" and
jim.
That blew up about "ptl" and jim. And so he was protecting us.
Jim. And so he was protecting us. Now, in that moment, I decided I
and so he was protecting us. Now, in that moment, I decided I was going to go down to
now, in that moment, I decided I was going to go down to nashville, and I met
keith thomas, and we started to
plan how my sister and I was
going to get a contract.
Plan how my sister and I was going to get a contract. And we started taking meetings,
and every meeting we took,
and we started taking meetings, and every meeting we took, they said no.
And every meeting we took, they said no. I remember one meeting, the guy
said, "I don't hear any talent."
I was like, "you don't hear a--
I mean, none?"
and, you know, you can get
discouraged.
And, you know, you can get discouraged. And I must say, we were a little
bit discouraged.
And the last meeting we took
was bill hearn, billy ray hearn,
and the last meeting we took was bill hearn, billy ray hearn, sparrow records, and they said
yes.
Sparrow records, and they said yes. But if it wasn't for
keith thomas, I don't think cece
but if it wasn't for keith thomas, I don't think cece and I would -- would be where we
are.
And I would -- would be where we are. Um, but after the first album
with sparrow, which was
um, but after the first album with sparrow, which was distributed by capitol records,
for the next album, which was
"heaven," we were on
capitol records.
And it was like, well, now how
did that happen?
How did that happen?
Did that happen? How did that happen? You kind of felt like...
Slavery is still happening in
you kind of felt like... Slavery is still happening in the christian music world, um,
slavery is still happening in the christian music world, um, because we didn't have any
involvement with that.
Because we didn't have any involvement with that. Happy to be on capitol, but
they didn't need our permission
happy to be on capitol, but they didn't need our permission to place us on capitol records.
They didn't need our permission to place us on capitol records. But, you know, you live and you
learn.
♪
we were sitting in a room, and
they were speaking to us about
the new album that we were going
to record and how they had these
other producers lined up, and I
was like, "oh, no.
Other producers lined up, and I was like, "oh, no. No, we're gonna use keith, you
know, from nashville like we did
no, we're gonna use keith, you know, from nashville like we did on the first album."
they said, "no, no, this is --
this is big time now.
They said, "no, no, this is -- this is big time now. You have to think, you know,
differently."
you have to think, you know, differently." it's like all of a sudden, it
got quiet, and I said, "oh,
wait, whoa, whoa.
Got quiet, and I said, "oh, wait, whoa, whoa. Now, let me say this.
Wait, whoa, whoa. Now, let me say this. I am very happy to be on
now, let me say this. I am very happy to be on capitol records, but we're gonna
use keith thomas, and if we
can't use keith thomas, then me
and my sister are gonna walk out
of here and y'all won't get no
record out of us."
and I remember the president
looking at me and saying, "you
would leave capitol records?"
and I said, "yes.
Would leave capitol records?" and I said, "yes. Just like I walked in here, I'll
walk out if we can't use
just like I walked in here, I'll walk out if we can't use keith thomas."
♪
my songs are a blueprint of my
life.
My songs are a blueprint of my life. Um...
Life. Um... The name of the album was
um... The name of the album was "different lifestyles."
the name of the album was "different lifestyles." and on that album was...
"I'll take you there" and
"addictive love."
that was an interesting moment
for me.
That was an interesting moment for me. The record company, emi music,
sparrow, they came to my home
the record company, emi music, sparrow, they came to my home and they really felt this way.
Sparrow, they came to my home and they really felt this way. They felt like that the word
"addictive" was a negative word,
they felt like that the word "addictive" was a negative word, and what it meant, addictions,
you know?
And what it meant, addictions, you know? And they said, "you know, bebe,
um, we don't think this song
and they said, "you know, bebe, um, we don't think this song should be on the album."
and they gave us the reasons.
Should be on the album." and they gave us the reasons. It was like eight people.
And they gave us the reasons. It was like eight people. And [chuckles] again, I'm glad I
it was like eight people. And [chuckles] again, I'm glad I stuck to my guns.
It became the biggest song of me
and my sister's career.
Some people want to put you on a
pedestal and say life has to be
some people want to put you on a pedestal and say life has to be perfect.
Pedestal and say life has to be perfect. Well, no, no, no.
Perfect. Well, no, no, no. Life is way far from perfect.
I'm not perfect, but I'm not
life is way far from perfect. I'm not perfect, but I'm not afraid to let you know I'm not
perfect.
Afraid to let you know I'm not perfect. God is perfect, and if I
continue to follow after him, I
god is perfect, and if I continue to follow after him, I will arrive to where I need to
to be.
Will arrive to where I need to to be. And in that journey, there's
gonna be some mistakes.
Um...And there were.
Gonna be some mistakes. Um...And there were. ♪
um...And there were. ♪ I think some people would be
surprised to learn and know that
80% of me and my sister's
success was on the r&b radio, on
mainstream radio and not gospel
radio.
Mainstream radio and not gospel radio. Matter of fact, we weren't being
played on gospel radio until
matter of fact, we weren't being played on gospel radio until "iou me."
that was the name of the record.
And it was being played on
the wave in los angeles,
and it was being played on the wave in los angeles, california, and with that
success, then we got invited to
the gospel conferences.
Success, then we got invited to the gospel conferences. [ laughs ]
yes.
And you still got to love people
when they don't invite you in
and you still got to love people when they don't invite you in the beginning.
When they don't invite you in the beginning. Um...
The beginning. Um... But what the pastors didn't know
um... But what the pastors didn't know is that every song I wrote, I
but what the pastors didn't know is that every song I wrote, I played it for one audience.
Is that every song I wrote, I played it for one audience. And that one audience was my
mom.
And if my mom said, "I like
that," I didn't care what people
and if my mom said, "I like that," I didn't care what people said.
That," I didn't care what people said. And so the "lost without you,"
all the criticism...
"that's devil music" and "you
didn't have jesus in your
lyrics," well, it was about
jesus.
Lyrics," well, it was about jesus. You -- "it's a little bit too
edgy."
you -- "it's a little bit too edgy." well, I like edges.
Edgy." well, I like edges. You know?
Well, I like edges. You know? I was unafraid to approach
you know? I was unafraid to approach my writing and my style and the
production.
My writing and my style and the production. I felt as if god deserved the
best, so I wanted the best
guitar players.
Best, so I wanted the best guitar players. I wanted the best producers, the
best rangers.
And that's what we went for.
>> winans: Whitney elizabeth houston. What a -- what a wonderful
whitney elizabeth houston. What a -- what a wonderful sister.
Beyond friendship.
Sister. Beyond friendship. We became family.
I met whitney when she was
we became family. I met whitney when she was opening for jeffrey osborne
and she was also singing in her
set the song "tomorrow," by my
brothers."
she sang, and then she came
to meet us in the room.
She sang, and then she came to meet us in the room. And when she walked out of her
dressing room, I remember me
and when she walked out of her dressing room, I remember me just saying, "I just want to
know what church you come from,
because you had to sing in
church when you was little."
and she looked up at me and
said, "new hope baptist."
I said, "I knew it. I knew it.
Said, "new hope baptist." I said, "I knew it. I knew it. Nobody sings like that unless
they've had the kind of
nobody sings like that unless they've had the kind of upbringing that we had."
and right then and there, we
became great friends.
And right then and there, we became great friends. ♪
one of the moments for cece when
cece first met her, we were at
the award show, and cece and I
are -- our award was early, and
so I went down front, cece with
me, looking for whitney,
actually.
Me, looking for whitney, actually. And I heard this person say,
"who you looking for with your
and I heard this person say, "who you looking for with your big head?"
and I turned around and it was
whitney.
And I turned around and it was whitney. She stood up and we laughed.
Whitney. She stood up and we laughed. And I said, "whitney, cece.
Cece, whitney."
and I said, "whitney, cece. Cece, whitney." and they just hugged each other,
cece, whitney." and they just hugged each other, and it's like...
And they just hugged each other, and it's like... And she says, "where y'all
going?"
and she says, "where y'all going?" and I said, "oh, we got to leave
because we have two concerts.
And I said, "oh, we got to leave because we have two concerts. The 9:00 and 12:00."
and she said, "okay, I'm coming
the 9:00 and 12:00." and she said, "okay, I'm coming to the 12:00."
it's like, "girl, you ain't
coming to no 12:00."
and at 11:55, whitney houston
walks into this little club
that me and cece were singing
at.
That me and cece were singing at. And before that concert was
over, she was on stage singing
and before that concert was over, she was on stage singing "love said not so."
after that, we talked about her
recording.
After that, we talked about her recording. And she said, "yes."
um...
That was interesting, because
she was whitney houston, and
that was interesting, because she was whitney houston, and whitney told me that her record
company, arista records, and her
attorney would call and for me
to give her the information of
what we were going to do.
To give her the information of what we were going to do. I received the phone call, and
they simply very nicely said,
"I know whitney wants to do
this, but her contract is gonna
allow her to do so."
and maybe five minutes later,
whitney called and said, "hey,
did they call you?"
I said, "yeah, they called, sis,
but...And it's okay."
she said -- [ laughter ]
she said, "what's okay?"
I said, "well, whitney, you
can't do it.
I mean, they said your
contract --"
she said, "they said I can't do
it?"
I said, "yeah, but I
understand."
"understand nothing."
she said, "hang up this phone,"
and she hung up on me.
She said, "hang up this phone," and she hung up on me. [ chuckles ]
then about two minutes later, I
got a phone call from the same
people saying, "hey, bebe,
you know, whitney's gonna be
able to do this.
You know, whitney's gonna be able to do this. The contract really is gonna
allow."
the contract really is gonna allow." I was like, "oh, my god.
Allow." I was like, "oh, my god. What did she say to those
people?"
what did she say to those people?" [ laughs ]
but we met up in new york, and
we did "hold up the light."
when she walked into the room,
wow.
When she walked into the room, wow. It was just...It was like
greatness was walking in.
And really beyond her vocal
ability, we really met the heart
and really beyond her vocal ability, we really met the heart of whitney houston.
Ability, we really met the heart of whitney houston. ♪
so, beyond the relationship with
whitney and music, in the height
of "I wanna dance with
somebody"...
Of "I wanna dance with somebody"... >> ♪ don't you wanna dance ♪
♪ don't you wanna dance, don't
you wanna dance, don't you wanna
dance? ♪
>> winans: ...Whitney would do
things that would anger
especially her record company,
that would shock us.
Especially her record company, that would shock us. She decided that she was going
to go on tour with me and my
she decided that she was going to go on tour with me and my sister, and she was gonna sing
background.
Sister, and she was gonna sing background. It was like, "you gonna do
what?"
it was like, "you gonna do what?" [ chuckles ]
"I'm gonna sing background."
and so she had us come to her
home in new jersey, and she
showed us what she had made for
me and my sister's first
national tour, which was
wardrobe.
National tour, which was wardrobe. One of the first things we
learned on tour was that we
one of the first things we learned on tour was that we really didn't have authority
over the bus driver.
Really didn't have authority over the bus driver. But not until whitney came on.
Over the bus driver. But not until whitney came on. We finished the concert.
I forget where we were.
She got on the bus with us and
we're just talking, and she
she got on the bus with us and we're just talking, and she said, "are y'all hungry?"
we said, "yeah, we're hungry,
but the bus driver, he won't
stop [laughs] until we get to
the next city."
and she said -- [ laughs ]
"he told y'all that?"
so, she left the conversation.
She went up to the front of the
bus, and she said, "did you tell
she went up to the front of the bus, and she said, "did you tell them that you wasn't gonna
stop?"
[ laughs ]
and then she looked around and
said, "has he been making up the
beds?"
[ laughs ]
so, she schooled us on how to
tour, what to expect from
everyone, and it was like, wow.
Tour, what to expect from everyone, and it was like, wow. We learned so much about touring
from whitney houston.
I learned so much about the
business from whitney houston.
♪
so, you have to understand, my
daughter, miya, was whitney's
goddaughter.
Daughter, miya, was whitney's goddaughter. And her daughter,
bobbi kristina, was cece's
and her daughter, bobbi kristina, was cece's goddaughter.
Bobbi kristina, was cece's goddaughter. Um...
Goddaughter. Um... You know, whitney was determined
um... You know, whitney was determined that we would be family, and
you know, whitney was determined that we would be family, and so I remember being at one of my
favorite restaurants in
nashville, tennessee, and my
phone was ringing a lot, and I
was just ignoring all the calls.
Phone was ringing a lot, and I was just ignoring all the calls. And then I saw a call from my
mom.
And I picked up the phone and
said, "why everybody calling
and I picked up the phone and said, "why everybody calling me?"
and she said, "oh, you haven't
heard."
I said, "haven't heard what,
ma?"
and she gave me that news that
whitney...Had passed away.
And she gave me that news that whitney...Had passed away. And I remember looking at the
television that was over the
and I remember looking at the television that was over the bar, and it was flashing by --
"whitney houston," you know,
"dies, 48."
and I just remember shaking.
I remember shaking
uncontrollably.
And we left out the restaurant,
and right before I reached home,
and we left out the restaurant, and right before I reached home, I get a call from cissy houston,
from whitney's mom.
And I answered the phone, and
cissy said, "bebe, I'm calling
and I answered the phone, and cissy said, "bebe, I'm calling to check on you, because I know
what you meant to my daughter
and what my daughter meant to
you."
I just remember pulling over,
and that's when the dam broke
and I just wept.
And that's when the dam broke and I just wept. It was a hard one.
And I just wept. It was a hard one. Prior to whitney's passing, you
it was a hard one. Prior to whitney's passing, you know, my brother passed, ronald,
prior to whitney's passing, you know, my brother passed, ronald, and he was 48 years old as well.
Know, my brother passed, ronald, and he was 48 years old as well. And it is still a very emotional
reality for me.
If I talk about him too long, I
can break easily into a cry.
He was my hero.
Can break easily into a cry. He was my hero. He really was. Fun.
Um...
Ronald believed in me more than
um... Ronald believed in me more than I believed in myself.
And that's unusual, you know?
Sometimes, especially in
and that's unusual, you know? Sometimes, especially in entertainment, people can become
sometimes, especially in entertainment, people can become very selfish and want to
accomplish things, you know,
that they want to accomplish.
Accomplish things, you know, that they want to accomplish. But ronald was that man, that
force in my life, that believed
but ronald was that man, that force in my life, that believed and wanted me to believe in what
I could accomplish.
And wanted me to believe in what I could accomplish. And so losing him, I lost a lot
of my belief in myself.
♪
I've learned to live with that
reality of a altered happy life.
Um, and so now I can smile when
I hear her sing.
I can smile when I think of the
moments we created -- and you
have to understand.
Moments we created -- and you have to understand. Her love was real.
Have to understand. Her love was real. And if she loved you, she really
her love was real. And if she loved you, she really did love you, and she was
and if she loved you, she really did love you, and she was concerned about everything
about you.
Concerned about everything about you. And you don't find many of those
in the world we live in.
♪ >> winans: The song "black lives matter," I wrote
that song when the young man
freddie was -- was killed...
That song when the young man freddie was -- was killed... By the hands of the police.
Freddie was -- was killed... By the hands of the police. And I remember standing in the
by the hands of the police. And I remember standing in the middle of my living room,
and I remember standing in the middle of my living room, weeping because I saw my son.
Middle of my living room, weeping because I saw my son. And I remember walking to the
piano room, and I wrote the song
and I remember walking to the piano room, and I wrote the song "black lives matter."
and then I put it aside.
And then after the murder of
george floyd, I remember saying
and then after the murder of george floyd, I remember saying to myself, "I need to record
this song."
and so it has a way of breaking
down doors.
And so it has a way of breaking down doors. Music has a way of breaking down
doors, so I'm excited to sing
music has a way of breaking down doors, so I'm excited to sing that song whenever I can, to --
just to allow others to
understand what we're saying.
In the back of my mind that cece and I would do solo projects. So, I made it a concrete
decision that every duet album
so, I made it a concrete decision that every duet album there is a solo from cece and
myself.
There is a solo from cece and myself. And that was allowing the
audience I think over the years
and that was allowing the audience I think over the years to accept the fact that, okay,
it's okay if they sing by
themselves instead of singing a
duet.
Themselves instead of singing a duet. And around that time, I had had
enough of cece, and I'm sure
and around that time, I had had enough of cece, and I'm sure she had enough of me.
Enough of cece, and I'm sure she had enough of me. At the same time, it was the
contract that we were still
at the same time, it was the contract that we were still under.
Contract that we were still under. We did the greatest hits album
for capitol records.
Had a great talk with the
president of emi, capitol, and
had a great talk with the president of emi, capitol, and agreed that this would be their
last album and we were let go
after we gave them this greatest
hits.
After we gave them this greatest hits. And they said, "okay, you know,
that's fair."
and they said, "okay, you know, that's fair." the other side said, "no, you
have at least five more years
left."
I said, "you know, let's just
be, you know -- let's talk about
this.
Be, you know -- let's talk about this. You have all these albums.
This. You have all these albums. If they can let us go, you can
you have all these albums. If they can let us go, you can let us go."
if they can let us go, you can let us go." and they said no.
Let us go." and they said no. I said, "that's the last album
you will get from me and my
sister, and call me when we're
five years down the road,
and that's when we will do
another album."
and so that's why we started
doing solos in 1997, 'cause
they did not have us as a solo
artist.
They did not have us as a solo artist. ♪
so, cece and I, we're in
los angeles.
So, cece and I, we're in los angeles. We were recording the
"relationship" album.
And that morning, I got up.
When I was getting out the
and that morning, I got up. When I was getting out the shower, there was this mirror in
when I was getting out the shower, there was this mirror in front of the shower, and the
words came out of my mouth,
"who are these people getting
out of this shower?"
I saw myself I guess for the
first time, and I looked like
three people.
First time, and I looked like three people. I made up my mind right then and
there -- I was 33 years old.
And after I got dressed, I went
downstairs.
Asked the concierge where was
the nearest gym, and she told me
asked the concierge where was the nearest gym, and she told me where.
The nearest gym, and she told me where. I went to the gold's gym.
Where. I went to the gold's gym. I joined, and I looked around,
and there was these people
training people.
And there was these people training people. It was like, "okay. Alright."
and then I saw this guy who was
it was like, "okay. Alright." and then I saw this guy who was not training anyone, and I went
up to him.
Not training anyone, and I went up to him. I said, you know, "are you
waiting on a client?"
and he said, "well, my client
just canceled."
I said, "well, can I, you know,
work out with you?"
he said, "yeah, okay."
so [chuckles] I remember that
man putting me on the treadmill
to walk two minutes, and I felt
like I was getting ready to
leave earth.
Like I was getting ready to leave earth. And I realized how much I was
out of shape.
So, we trained for that hour,
and he asked, "are you gonna
so, we trained for that hour, and he asked, "are you gonna come back?"
I said, "yes."
he said, "what is your goals?"
I said, "alright, look.
He said, "what is your goals?" I said, "alright, look. I'm 33 years old.
I weigh 255 pounds.
I wanna weigh 180."
and then he looked at me and
said, "look, it took you 33
years to get to where you are.
Said, "look, it took you 33 years to get to where you are. Give yourself more than three
days to get to where you wanna
give yourself more than three days to get to where you wanna be."
and for some reason, it clicked.
Be." and for some reason, it clicked. It became my -- not only my
lifestyle, but it became my
it became my -- not only my lifestyle, but it became my therapy.
Lifestyle, but it became my therapy. And a lot of people don't know.
Therapy. And a lot of people don't know. If you really want therapy,
and a lot of people don't know. If you really want therapy, start exercising.
And it will really set the --
the start of the day to deal
and it will really set the -- the start of the day to deal with a lot of things that comes
your way.
With a lot of things that comes your way. So I am faithful and I'm
camera-ready.
[ laughs ]
>> winans: You know, you have to understand. I consider myself still that
bebe winans from detroit no
matter what I do.
Bebe winans from detroit no matter what I do. So, I have enjoyed over the
years meeting great people like
so, I have enjoyed over the years meeting great people like luther vandross.
Years meeting great people like luther vandross. When it comes to singing,
there's nobody better.
We became great friends.
There's nobody better. We became great friends. A lot of people didn't know, but
we became great friends. A lot of people didn't know, but after each album, luther and I
a lot of people didn't know, but after each album, luther and I would get together and we would
just ride in the car and we
would listen to each other's
album, and we would like, "oh, I
like that one."
and luther was like, "oh, yeah.
Like that one." and luther was like, "oh, yeah. Now, that should be your first
one."
now, that should be your first one." you know, we had great respect
for each other.
You know, we had great respect for each other. He was -- he was also -- he
reminds me of the night owl
he was -- he was also -- he reminds me of the night owl whitney was.
Reminds me of the night owl whitney was. When the phone rang at 10:00, I
knew it was luther.
He was a great friend.
Knew it was luther. He was a great friend. I miss him.
I learned a lot of things from
luther.
♪
you know, losing a father is
different from losing a brother.
You know, losing a father is different from losing a brother. He was definitely one of my
heroes, but he taught me how to
he was definitely one of my heroes, but he taught me how to be a man.
Heroes, but he taught me how to be a man. He taught me how to provide.
Be a man. He taught me how to provide. He taught me how to be diligent
he taught me how to provide. He taught me how to be diligent and in everything that I am, he
he taught me how to be diligent and in everything that I am, he taught me.
And in everything that I am, he taught me. So, when he took his last
breath, my world just shifted
so, when he took his last breath, my world just shifted into that position that he
taught me to take.
Into that position that he taught me to take. Truly, my father is alive in all
of us, and he loved god, he
truly, my father is alive in all of us, and he loved god, he loved his family, and he loved
music.
Loved his family, and he loved music. You know, I know I'll see him
again, but, boy, he lives in all
you know, I know I'll see him again, but, boy, he lives in all nine of my siblings.
Again, but, boy, he lives in all nine of my siblings. ♪
when people know that they can
trust you, when people know you
care about them, then they open
up and allow you to really know
who they are.
Up and allow you to really know who they are. You know?
Who they are. You know? And that's what I've had the
you know? And that's what I've had the pleasure in enjoying the
and that's what I've had the pleasure in enjoying the friendships that I have.
Pleasure in enjoying the friendships that I have. ♪
I don't live a five-year plan or
a 10-year plan.
And if ever asked "what are you
doing next?", my answer is I
and if ever asked "what are you doing next?", my answer is I don't know.
Doing next?", my answer is I don't know. It's going to be something that
I probably am going to have to
it's going to be something that I probably am going to have to leave my comfort zone.
Music is my foundation, but I've
been unafraid to -- to go
music is my foundation, but I've been unafraid to -- to go through doors that I know
nothing about.
Through doors that I know nothing about. ♪
and I think if you -- you get to
the place where you're not
afraid of what people are going
to say, whether you fail or not,
because in order to succeed,
you're going to have to fail.
Because in order to succeed, you're going to have to fail. And again, it brings me back to
my father.
My father said, "I'm going to
teach you all how to be
confident.
Are you the greatest singers in
the world?
No.
But what you are before you
leave my house, you're gonna be
confident in the gift that god
gave you.
And sometimes that can be a thin
line between confident and
conceited.
Some people may say you're
conceited.
But, no, it's confidence."
and so I'm confident.
In what's ever next, I'm gonna
grab it.