1 00:00:06,966 --> 00:00:10,303 [Rachel McAdams] The pay gap between men and women around the world 2 00:00:10,386 --> 00:00:13,431 looks a little different depending on how you measure it. 3 00:00:15,892 --> 00:00:20,480 In Poland, women earn 91 cents for every dollar a man does. 4 00:00:20,563 --> 00:00:23,191 In Israel, it's 81 cents. 5 00:00:23,274 --> 00:00:27,153 In South Korea, women make just 65 cents on the dollar. 6 00:00:27,236 --> 00:00:30,907 We know that just freeing the potential of women, 7 00:00:30,990 --> 00:00:35,953 that is the fastest multiplier that we have in terms of our growth. 8 00:00:36,037 --> 00:00:39,499 That is such an accelerator in eradicating poverty. 9 00:00:39,582 --> 00:00:42,502 When you go to the store, you don't get a woman's discount. 10 00:00:42,585 --> 00:00:44,837 You have to pay the same as everybody else. 11 00:00:44,921 --> 00:00:47,757 So that comes out of your family income. 12 00:00:48,216 --> 00:00:50,426 [McAdams] When someone mentions the pay gap, 13 00:00:50,510 --> 00:00:52,428 you often hear another phrase as well. 14 00:00:52,512 --> 00:00:54,388 -Equal pay... -...for equal work. 15 00:00:54,472 --> 00:00:57,141 -Equal pay... -...for equal work. 16 00:00:57,225 --> 00:00:59,852 [McAdams] It makes it sound like women are paid less 17 00:00:59,936 --> 00:01:01,437 for doing the same job as men, 18 00:01:01,521 --> 00:01:04,232 which means women are paid less just for being women. 19 00:01:04,899 --> 00:01:07,568 There's a word for that, discrimination. 20 00:01:07,652 --> 00:01:11,239 But a huge body of research from many countries shows 21 00:01:11,322 --> 00:01:14,534 that overt pay discrimination only potentially explains 22 00:01:14,617 --> 00:01:16,452 a small part of the gender pay gap. 23 00:01:16,536 --> 00:01:21,374 It's a real number, but it really, actually tells you almost nothing 24 00:01:21,457 --> 00:01:25,253 about the real disparity between men and women. 25 00:01:25,336 --> 00:01:28,714 Women aren't looking for a leg up. They want equal opportunity 26 00:01:28,798 --> 00:01:31,092 and equal pay. Big difference. 27 00:01:31,175 --> 00:01:34,137 If you want to change culture, you can't sit down and wait. 28 00:01:34,220 --> 00:01:35,805 You must do something about it. 29 00:01:35,888 --> 00:01:39,350 [McAdams] So, if it's not all about discrimination, 30 00:01:39,433 --> 00:01:43,896 why are women around the world paid so much less than men? 31 00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:48,359 [man] The woman who works at a career has chosen to ignore that the woman's place... 32 00:01:50,361 --> 00:01:52,989 It doesn't matter if you have a female or male body, 33 00:01:53,072 --> 00:01:54,740 they should be paid accordingly. 34 00:01:56,659 --> 00:01:59,078 [man] I see some really advanced clerical work. 35 00:01:59,162 --> 00:02:02,248 Pays women 80 cents for every dollar it pays men. 36 00:02:02,331 --> 00:02:05,418 [woman] This is our time to stand up to have our voices heard. 37 00:02:05,501 --> 00:02:07,170 And women will lead this country. 38 00:02:07,253 --> 00:02:08,796 That's what this is all about. 39 00:02:14,468 --> 00:02:18,139 [McAdams] The story in the United States is similar to a lot of countries. 40 00:02:18,222 --> 00:02:21,434 It wasn't very long ago that most women, especially white women, 41 00:02:21,517 --> 00:02:23,644 didn't work outside the home at all. 42 00:02:24,187 --> 00:02:26,063 When you go back to the 1950s, 43 00:02:26,147 --> 00:02:29,233 there weren't very many women in the workforce. 44 00:02:29,317 --> 00:02:33,738 The women there were were often not as well educated as the men. 45 00:02:33,821 --> 00:02:35,990 They either didn't finish college, 46 00:02:36,073 --> 00:02:39,035 or they didn't have the same credentials in college, 47 00:02:39,118 --> 00:02:40,786 or hadn't gone to college at all. 48 00:02:40,870 --> 00:02:44,040 Most of the women in my neighborhood did not work. 49 00:02:44,123 --> 00:02:45,333 My mother did not work. 50 00:02:45,416 --> 00:02:50,588 The only women that I saw in professional roles were teachers. 51 00:02:50,671 --> 00:02:52,757 [McAdams] Most women didn't get that far. 52 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:57,011 Seventy percent had menial jobs on factory assembly lines or in offices. 53 00:02:57,094 --> 00:03:00,848 [man] Women workers don't mind routine, repetitive work, 54 00:03:00,932 --> 00:03:04,185 and they're good on work that requires high finger dexterity. 55 00:03:04,268 --> 00:03:08,022 [McAdams] People understood that a woman might need to earn a little money, 56 00:03:08,105 --> 00:03:09,690 but a career? That was for men. 57 00:03:09,774 --> 00:03:12,652 Your high score on the clerical aptitude test 58 00:03:12,735 --> 00:03:15,238 indicates that you can become a good secretary. 59 00:03:15,738 --> 00:03:18,157 [McAdams] Discrimination was also totally legal, 60 00:03:18,241 --> 00:03:22,161 allowing employers to put out job listings for men only. 61 00:03:22,703 --> 00:03:23,996 When I was growing up, 62 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,041 I knew one woman lawyer. One. 63 00:03:27,124 --> 00:03:28,918 I never met a woman doctor. 64 00:03:29,001 --> 00:03:32,129 I couldn't have even imagined women engineers. 65 00:03:32,546 --> 00:03:35,841 [McAdams] The pay gap hovered around 60 cents on the dollar. 66 00:03:35,925 --> 00:03:38,511 It was caused by several interconnected factors, 67 00:03:38,594 --> 00:03:40,596 like lower female education rates, 68 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,266 women not being in the workforce in big numbers, 69 00:03:43,349 --> 00:03:45,851 grouping in traditionally feminine industries, 70 00:03:45,935 --> 00:03:49,272 and the fact that it was perfectly legal to pay women less, 71 00:03:49,355 --> 00:03:52,984 and then a slew of cultural norms about gender roles and aptitudes. 72 00:03:53,067 --> 00:03:55,611 These were the major explanations for the pay gap. 73 00:03:56,821 --> 00:04:00,157 And then, in just a few decades, things changed. 74 00:04:00,241 --> 00:04:03,327 Sisterhood is powerful! Join us now! 75 00:04:03,411 --> 00:04:06,205 [man] The battle cry of the women's liberation movement 76 00:04:06,289 --> 00:04:08,582 rings out down New York's Fifth Avenue. 77 00:04:08,666 --> 00:04:12,169 [man] First woman to receive the highest honor of the National... 78 00:04:12,253 --> 00:04:14,630 [man] The House broke into spontaneous applause. 79 00:04:14,714 --> 00:04:16,716 Benazir Bhutto, the new prime minister. 80 00:04:16,799 --> 00:04:19,510 [man] This is the first American woman in space. 81 00:04:19,593 --> 00:04:20,636 [applause] 82 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,139 [man] First woman nominated to the Supreme Court. 83 00:04:23,222 --> 00:04:26,058 [man] First woman ever to run on a Presidential ticket. 84 00:04:26,142 --> 00:04:30,021 My candidacy has said to women, "The doors of opportunity are open." 85 00:04:30,104 --> 00:04:33,607 Women are out-earning men in college degrees and advanced degrees. 86 00:04:33,691 --> 00:04:36,485 [woman] Women are engaged to bring the next generation. 87 00:04:36,569 --> 00:04:38,195 For the first time in history, 88 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,198 women are actually outnumbering men in the workplace. 89 00:04:42,199 --> 00:04:44,702 This was just a sea change 90 00:04:44,785 --> 00:04:49,332 to see women competing for scholarships I couldn't have competed for, 91 00:04:49,415 --> 00:04:52,418 going to schools that were not open to women, 92 00:04:52,501 --> 00:04:54,587 taking on jobs that were closed to women. 93 00:04:54,670 --> 00:04:59,425 That's changed... just... unbelievably. 94 00:04:59,508 --> 00:05:02,845 [McAdams] Many of the factors that were causing the pay gap shrunk, 95 00:05:02,928 --> 00:05:04,263 except for one. 96 00:05:04,347 --> 00:05:08,976 [Anne-Marie Slaughter] But what has stayed is that women bear children. 97 00:05:09,060 --> 00:05:11,604 They are assumed to be the primary caregiver. 98 00:05:12,063 --> 00:05:15,775 [McAdams] Even as women became doctors, and lawyers, and heads of state, 99 00:05:15,858 --> 00:05:18,194 the popular expectation remained in society 100 00:05:18,277 --> 00:05:21,489 that they would still do most of the work of raising children. 101 00:05:21,572 --> 00:05:23,949 In the United States, in the UK, even in progressive Scandinavian countries, 102 00:05:26,494 --> 00:05:29,246 surveys today show only a fraction of the population 103 00:05:29,330 --> 00:05:32,625 thinks women should work full-time when they have young kids. 104 00:05:32,708 --> 00:05:35,419 When it comes to men, the expectation flips. 105 00:05:36,087 --> 00:05:40,091 Seventy percent of Americans think that new fathers should work full-time. 106 00:05:40,174 --> 00:05:42,802 There still is a considerable percentage of people, 107 00:05:42,885 --> 00:05:46,013 not just in our country, but around the world, who really think 108 00:05:46,097 --> 00:05:48,766 once you're a mom, you shouldn't be in the workplace. 109 00:05:48,849 --> 00:05:52,978 And that's been proven wrong, short-sighted over and over again. I learned, after I went back, when my time was constrained, 110 00:05:57,274 --> 00:05:59,276 not by my employer, but by me, 111 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,447 because I wanted to get home to that baby and spend time with her, 112 00:06:03,531 --> 00:06:06,992 that I could actually get a lot of work done in 15 minutes. 113 00:06:07,076 --> 00:06:10,454 Like, I would take any opportunity to work. 114 00:06:10,538 --> 00:06:16,252 I've become, I think, a much better employee since I've had children. 115 00:06:16,335 --> 00:06:20,089 [McAdams] Even when a mother does work full-time just like her male partner, she spends nine hours a week more than him on childcare and housework. 116 00:06:24,552 --> 00:06:26,554 Over a year, that's the equivalent 117 00:06:26,637 --> 00:06:29,056 of an extra three months of a full-time job. 118 00:06:29,140 --> 00:06:31,517 This is the heart of the pay gap, 119 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,311 and to understand why, it helps to follow the story 120 00:06:34,395 --> 00:06:37,064 of a young couple just starting out on their careers. 121 00:06:37,148 --> 00:06:40,484 I often think about the trajectories 122 00:06:40,568 --> 00:06:42,695 of the many law students I taught. 123 00:06:42,778 --> 00:06:44,780 They look exactly the same. 124 00:06:44,864 --> 00:06:48,617 They have the same educational record, the same experience. 125 00:06:48,701 --> 00:06:52,037 And then you watch what starts to happen 126 00:06:52,121 --> 00:06:56,542 as they hit their late 20s, early 30s, childbearing years, 127 00:06:56,625 --> 00:06:59,378 and they start thinking about having children. 128 00:06:59,462 --> 00:07:03,299 If they have children, at that point, somebody has to be home. 129 00:07:03,382 --> 00:07:05,551 You can have lots of childcare, 130 00:07:05,634 --> 00:07:12,308 but a parent needs to be at home for those situations that needs a parent. 131 00:07:13,517 --> 00:07:15,519 So he's likely to get promoted. 132 00:07:17,688 --> 00:07:22,276 She, on the other hand, has had to turn down some of those assignments, 133 00:07:22,359 --> 00:07:24,361 say no to some of that travel. 134 00:07:24,445 --> 00:07:27,490 So eight years out, ten years out, 135 00:07:27,573 --> 00:07:32,036 typically, he's then a partner, and he can do lots of things from there. 136 00:07:32,119 --> 00:07:35,498 She hasn't made partner. She's not earning the same. 137 00:07:35,581 --> 00:07:38,792 She's working flexibly, or even part-time, 138 00:07:38,876 --> 00:07:43,088 and from there, her earning potential and his just keep diverging. 139 00:07:44,048 --> 00:07:47,343 [McAdams] This is the story the data tells us in study after study 140 00:07:47,426 --> 00:07:49,261 in a variety of different countries. 141 00:07:49,345 --> 00:07:51,555 One Danish study did an especially good job 142 00:07:51,639 --> 00:07:54,141 of showing how childbirth affects earnings. 143 00:07:54,892 --> 00:07:56,936 [McAdams] Here's a man's pay trajectory. 144 00:07:57,478 --> 00:07:59,647 Watch what happens when his child is born. 145 00:08:00,856 --> 00:08:03,067 Here's the woman's trajectory. 146 00:08:04,235 --> 00:08:07,238 So then if you compare the earnings of a woman with kids 147 00:08:07,321 --> 00:08:09,240 to a woman without kids, 148 00:08:09,323 --> 00:08:12,618 you can see that the pay gap isn't as much about being a woman 149 00:08:12,701 --> 00:08:14,870 as it is about being a mom. 150 00:08:14,954 --> 00:08:19,583 The gender gap really is between women with children and everybody else. 151 00:08:19,667 --> 00:08:26,090 Women who are not caregivers earn 96% of every dollar. 152 00:08:26,173 --> 00:08:28,175 It's a motherhood penalty. 153 00:08:28,259 --> 00:08:30,928 [McAdams] Some mothers don't see this as a problem. 154 00:08:31,011 --> 00:08:33,430 They want to spend more time with their children. 155 00:08:33,514 --> 00:08:35,474 They don't mind if it means making less. 156 00:08:35,558 --> 00:08:39,270 Some women make a job choice based on the fact they want to have families. 157 00:08:39,353 --> 00:08:40,729 Nothing wrong with that. 158 00:08:40,813 --> 00:08:45,776 Presenting it as, you know, a penalty is kind of denying 159 00:08:45,859 --> 00:08:49,446 first, that women make that choice, 160 00:08:49,530 --> 00:08:52,783 but also that there's some extreme value... 161 00:08:52,866 --> 00:08:56,954 not just for the children, the family, but also for the women making that choice. 162 00:08:57,037 --> 00:09:02,126 A pay gap based on choices, you know, is different 163 00:09:02,209 --> 00:09:04,920 than a pay gap that's just because you're a woman, 164 00:09:05,004 --> 00:09:08,882 and you just can't get equal pay for doing the same thing a guy does. 165 00:09:08,966 --> 00:09:12,386 [McAdams] But often, women and men don't get the same choices. 166 00:09:12,469 --> 00:09:17,057 In the US, there are three times as many single moms as single dads. 167 00:09:17,141 --> 00:09:19,727 And growing up, most of us get the message 168 00:09:19,810 --> 00:09:22,813 that caregiving is more of a woman's job than a man's. 169 00:09:22,896 --> 00:09:27,776 Take, for example, a 1980s advice column about how to decorate your desk at work 170 00:09:27,860 --> 00:09:29,486 that still rings true today. 171 00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:32,573 Someone wrote in and said, "I've just gotten a big promotion, 172 00:09:32,656 --> 00:09:35,159 so I'll have my own work space for the first time. 173 00:09:35,242 --> 00:09:37,995 How should I decorate it?" And here was the answer, 174 00:09:38,078 --> 00:09:41,624 "I can't tell from your initials whether you're a man or a woman, 175 00:09:41,707 --> 00:09:44,251 and the answer depends upon which you are. 176 00:09:44,335 --> 00:09:48,339 If you're a man, and you have a family, plaster your office with family pictures, 177 00:09:48,422 --> 00:09:51,091 because people will think you're a very good provider. If you're a woman, and you have children, 178 00:09:53,927 --> 00:09:57,598 don't put pictures up in your office of your family, 179 00:09:57,681 --> 00:10:01,101 because people will think you can't keep your mind on your work." 180 00:10:01,185 --> 00:10:04,772 [McAdams] The roots of this issue go deep to how we understand family 181 00:10:04,855 --> 00:10:06,440 and mothers and fathers. 182 00:10:06,523 --> 00:10:08,817 It's why the gap is so hard to close. 183 00:10:09,860 --> 00:10:11,362 But it's not impossible. 184 00:10:11,904 --> 00:10:14,114 Two countries, Iceland and Rwanda, 185 00:10:14,198 --> 00:10:17,951 have almost closed their wage gaps, and in just a few decades. 186 00:10:18,035 --> 00:10:21,163 And looking at these two cases reveals important lessons 187 00:10:21,246 --> 00:10:23,499 about what it takes to create a society 188 00:10:23,582 --> 00:10:26,043 where women are paid almost the same as men. 189 00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:29,505 Rwanda is one of the poorest nations on Earth, 190 00:10:29,588 --> 00:10:33,384 and until just a few decades ago, women were denied many basic rights. 191 00:10:33,467 --> 00:10:35,177 [Consolee Nishimwe] Before 1994, 192 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:37,638 women were not allowed to speak in public. Married women were not allowed 193 00:10:40,182 --> 00:10:44,061 to open a bank account without the authorization of their husbands. 194 00:10:44,144 --> 00:10:47,231 [McAdams] But in 1994, everything changed. 195 00:10:47,815 --> 00:10:51,819 The fifth day of carnage and bloodshed in the Central African nation of Rwanda. 196 00:10:51,902 --> 00:10:54,196 Thousands of people are feared dead tonight... 197 00:10:54,279 --> 00:10:57,533 The fiercest fighting yet in the Central African nation of Rwanda. 198 00:10:57,616 --> 00:11:01,078 [McAdams] In just three months, 800,000 people were murdered. 199 00:11:01,495 --> 00:11:03,956 Losing my dad and my three brothers, 200 00:11:04,039 --> 00:11:06,417 I survived with my mom and my sister. 201 00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:11,255 [McAdams] After the violence, the Rwandan population was 60 to 70% women. 202 00:11:11,338 --> 00:11:15,884 It destroyed completely the social fabric. 203 00:11:15,968 --> 00:11:20,347 You do anything you can do to survive. 204 00:11:20,764 --> 00:11:22,474 [McAdams] The shortage of men meant 205 00:11:22,558 --> 00:11:25,477 that women had to step into the workforce in huge numbers, 206 00:11:25,561 --> 00:11:28,856 taking on jobs that a year earlier would have been unheard of. 207 00:11:28,939 --> 00:11:34,862 You'll find a woman who was police, for instance, or in the military. 208 00:11:34,945 --> 00:11:39,283 Gradually, women were found, like, being a mayor, a governor. 209 00:11:39,366 --> 00:11:44,163 Women actually were helping to change, you know, the country. 210 00:11:44,246 --> 00:11:47,833 [McAdams] The new government realized that to rebuild Rwanda, 211 00:11:47,916 --> 00:11:49,585 they needed women. 212 00:11:49,668 --> 00:11:52,588 So they immediately implemented a host of new policies 213 00:11:52,671 --> 00:11:55,257 aimed at getting more women into positions of power. 214 00:11:55,841 --> 00:11:57,843 The preamble to the new Constitution 215 00:11:57,926 --> 00:12:01,180 included a commitment to equal rights between men and women, 216 00:12:01,263 --> 00:12:06,518 stipulating that 30% of representatives at all levels of government be women. 217 00:12:06,643 --> 00:12:10,856 Today in Rwanda, women hold 61% of the seats in Parliament, 218 00:12:10,939 --> 00:12:13,108 the highest in the world. 219 00:12:13,192 --> 00:12:16,487 They have a labor force participation rate of 88%. 220 00:12:17,112 --> 00:12:19,406 Rwanda is one of the few countries 221 00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:23,243 where a woman is just as likely as a man to work outside the home. 222 00:12:23,327 --> 00:12:26,330 The Constitution also created the position of gender monitor, 223 00:12:26,413 --> 00:12:28,665 who ensures that public programs are complying 224 00:12:28,749 --> 00:12:30,918 with the country's goals of gender equality. 225 00:12:31,001 --> 00:12:33,128 A young girl in Rwanda doesn't think 226 00:12:33,212 --> 00:12:36,590 that there is anything that she's not allowed to do. 227 00:12:36,673 --> 00:12:38,550 They don't have to grow in a system 228 00:12:38,634 --> 00:12:41,178 where they think there will be a ceiling somewhere. 229 00:12:41,261 --> 00:12:43,680 [McAdams] This cultural shift around gender began 230 00:12:43,764 --> 00:12:46,308 as a survival mechanism after the genocide. 231 00:12:46,391 --> 00:12:48,811 But thanks to aggressive policies, 232 00:12:48,894 --> 00:12:51,980 Rwanda has achieved lasting progress in closing the gap. The World Economic Forum puts Rwanda's pay gap 233 00:12:55,234 --> 00:12:57,152 at 86 cents on the dollar. 234 00:12:59,196 --> 00:13:02,908 Much further north, the small island nation of Iceland 235 00:13:02,991 --> 00:13:06,119 has also made major strides towards closing the pay gap. 236 00:13:06,578 --> 00:13:08,997 But they took a different path towards equality. 237 00:13:09,081 --> 00:13:12,042 The real turning point came in 1975. 238 00:13:13,252 --> 00:13:15,254 [Crowd chanting song] 239 00:13:17,589 --> 00:13:19,550 The year before I was born, 240 00:13:19,633 --> 00:13:22,386 the women of Iceland actually left their workplaces 241 00:13:22,469 --> 00:13:25,973 and went out in the streets in order to object to the gender pay gap. 242 00:13:30,936 --> 00:13:35,440 Without them in their jobs, businesses could not stay open, 243 00:13:35,524 --> 00:13:38,068 and it started a huge grassroots wave 244 00:13:38,151 --> 00:13:40,904 that, you know, slowly started changing society. 245 00:13:45,576 --> 00:13:47,369 The first result was really 246 00:13:47,452 --> 00:13:50,455 that women became a lot more visible in the political field. 247 00:13:51,164 --> 00:13:53,834 [McAdams] In 1980, five years after the strike, 248 00:13:53,917 --> 00:13:57,963 Iceland voted in the world's first democratically-elected female president. 249 00:13:58,046 --> 00:14:02,426 ...Iceland. Hurray! Hurray! 250 00:14:02,509 --> 00:14:06,138 [McAdams] The number of women in the Icelandic Parliament skyrocketed. 251 00:14:06,221 --> 00:14:10,183 Then really, in the years to follow, you see policy changes. 252 00:14:10,767 --> 00:14:14,438 [McAdams] In 1981, Iceland passed a law that required employers 253 00:14:14,521 --> 00:14:17,399 to provide new mothers three months of paid leave. 254 00:14:17,482 --> 00:14:20,277 That was extended to six months in 1988. 255 00:14:20,903 --> 00:14:24,323 Guaranteed maternity leave was a novel idea at the time, 256 00:14:24,406 --> 00:14:27,242 and Iceland's was one of the most generous in the world. 257 00:14:29,578 --> 00:14:31,622 But as progressive as this law was, 258 00:14:31,705 --> 00:14:35,584 it encouraged moms to stay home while new fathers kept working, 259 00:14:35,667 --> 00:14:38,712 reinforcing cultural norms at the heart of the pay gap 260 00:14:38,795 --> 00:14:41,298 that women are caregivers, and men are not. 261 00:14:42,382 --> 00:14:44,384 So lawmakers did something radical. 262 00:14:44,801 --> 00:14:47,471 What if they gave parental leave to dads 263 00:14:47,554 --> 00:14:49,765 and made it a use-it-or-lose-it benefit, 264 00:14:49,848 --> 00:14:51,934 so dads would feel pressure to take it? 265 00:14:52,017 --> 00:14:54,770 Iceland passed that law in the year 2000. 266 00:14:54,853 --> 00:14:58,482 Obligational paternity leave has made a difference 267 00:14:59,191 --> 00:15:02,027 in the culture of men in Iceland, 268 00:15:02,110 --> 00:15:03,612 a very positive difference. 269 00:15:03,695 --> 00:15:05,530 The men of the youngest generations, 270 00:15:05,614 --> 00:15:09,326 they expect to take time off to take care of their children. 271 00:15:09,409 --> 00:15:11,411 Which really makes all the difference, 272 00:15:11,995 --> 00:15:14,164 both at home, but also in the job market, 273 00:15:14,247 --> 00:15:16,083 because now you can actually expect, 274 00:15:16,166 --> 00:15:19,002 if you're hiring a young man or a young woman, 275 00:15:19,086 --> 00:15:21,838 both will take maternity or paternity leave. 276 00:15:22,255 --> 00:15:26,677 [McAdams] In 2004, the pay gap in Iceland was about the same as it was in the US, 277 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,553 but in the years that followed, 278 00:15:28,637 --> 00:15:31,306 Iceland's gender pay gap shrank, to where today, 279 00:15:31,390 --> 00:15:35,143 women in Iceland make about 90 cents on every dollar a man does. 280 00:15:36,937 --> 00:15:40,148 So we know that narrowing the gender wage gap isn't impossible. 281 00:15:40,565 --> 00:15:43,986 But these kind of family-friendly policies might come with tradeoffs 282 00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:45,612 that we don't immediately see. 283 00:15:45,696 --> 00:15:48,115 These are benefits. 284 00:15:48,198 --> 00:15:51,702 Having more of these choices available are great things. 285 00:15:51,785 --> 00:15:55,706 We should not expect them to come for free. 286 00:15:55,789 --> 00:15:58,291 Some women elect to have children. Some don't. 287 00:15:58,417 --> 00:16:01,169 And some men elect to have children. Some don't. 288 00:16:01,253 --> 00:16:04,339 Can I look at the person who elected not to have children 289 00:16:04,423 --> 00:16:06,591 and say, "You gotta pay for it in some way"? 290 00:16:06,675 --> 00:16:09,594 If a mother takes off a lot of time, 291 00:16:09,678 --> 00:16:13,765 what does the small business person do who only has three employees? 292 00:16:13,849 --> 00:16:15,559 I don't want to penalize a mother, 293 00:16:15,642 --> 00:16:18,353 but you don't want to penalize a small business owner. 294 00:16:18,437 --> 00:16:21,898 It's not the same with a giant corporation, 295 00:16:21,982 --> 00:16:24,276 because they have enormously more flexibility 296 00:16:24,359 --> 00:16:27,237 in filling positions, and it doesn't hurt the bottom line. 297 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:28,739 [McAdams] While it may not be 298 00:16:28,822 --> 00:16:31,199 the biggest reason women are paid less than men, 299 00:16:31,283 --> 00:16:34,369 and it varies significantly across countries and industries, 300 00:16:34,453 --> 00:16:37,039 women still don't get equal pay for equal work. 301 00:16:37,122 --> 00:16:41,501 There is an irreducible percentage that is due to discrimination. 302 00:16:41,585 --> 00:16:48,216 It's just very clear that much of what the workplace favors... 303 00:16:49,134 --> 00:16:50,052 favors men. 304 00:16:50,135 --> 00:16:52,763 I've watched it in many different settings 305 00:16:52,846 --> 00:16:55,724 where, you know, the guy you talk sports with, 306 00:16:55,807 --> 00:16:57,476 the guy you go golfing with, 307 00:16:57,601 --> 00:17:01,688 he's somebody you get more familiar with, and you're comfortable around. 308 00:17:01,772 --> 00:17:05,275 [McAdams] But that kind of discrimination has declined over the decades 309 00:17:05,358 --> 00:17:08,737 as more women entered the workplace, and the culture shifted. 310 00:17:08,820 --> 00:17:12,407 Changing the expectation that women should be the ones to raise children 311 00:17:12,491 --> 00:17:15,035 will require another cultural shift. 312 00:17:15,118 --> 00:17:17,454 And in the view of many who work on this issue, 313 00:17:17,537 --> 00:17:19,206 that shift begins with men. 314 00:17:19,289 --> 00:17:25,087 Until we think of men and women as both caregivers and breadwinners, 315 00:17:25,170 --> 00:17:26,505 we're not gonna get there, 316 00:17:26,588 --> 00:17:29,508 because as long as it's a woman problem... 317 00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:34,262 then we are reinforcing that stereotype that care is her job. 318 00:17:34,346 --> 00:17:39,601 It'll only be less of a burden on women when men feel comfortable saying, 319 00:17:39,684 --> 00:17:43,605 "I'm going to a parent-teacher conference. I'm not leaving it to my wife." 320 00:17:43,688 --> 00:17:46,149 Or, "I really wanna go to the well-baby check-up. 321 00:17:46,233 --> 00:17:48,902 They're getting their vaccinations. I wanna be there." 322 00:17:48,985 --> 00:17:52,531 The wage gap is not just a woman's issue. It's a family issue.