1 00:00:15,350 --> 00:00:16,892 MISSY: The Twins Day Festival kind of 2 00:00:16,968 --> 00:00:19,019 put Twinsburg on the map, because when you talk to 3 00:00:19,063 --> 00:00:21,063 anybody and say you're from Twinsburg, 4 00:00:21,139 --> 00:00:22,606 "Oh, is that where they have that 5 00:00:22,682 --> 00:00:25,734 Twins Day festival?" I'm like, "Yeah, that's it. 6 00:00:25,811 --> 00:00:28,236 You got it." [laughs] 7 00:00:30,199 --> 00:00:33,325 But I gotta say, Charlene's death 8 00:00:33,401 --> 00:00:36,244 changed my whole opinion on life. 9 00:00:36,246 --> 00:00:38,914 I became this paranoid freak. 10 00:00:38,990 --> 00:00:40,415 I was afraid of everything. 11 00:00:40,492 --> 00:00:42,084 My children, my poor children, were 12 00:00:42,086 --> 00:00:45,754 just raised with a paranoid freak mother. 13 00:00:45,831 --> 00:00:48,632 KEN: Murder destroys families. 14 00:00:48,634 --> 00:00:51,968 It was hard on my wife, how I acted towards her. 15 00:00:54,389 --> 00:00:56,681 She was killed in front of her children. 16 00:00:56,758 --> 00:00:58,266 That would have tore me up. 17 00:00:58,268 --> 00:01:04,606 No one should have to go through a life losing a mom 18 00:01:04,683 --> 00:01:06,858 to where she can't be with her boys. 19 00:01:06,935 --> 00:01:10,195 They're always wondering, what's my mom like? 20 00:01:10,272 --> 00:01:12,572 Something they'll never know. 21 00:01:12,616 --> 00:01:14,032 ERIC: What happened? Why did it happen? 22 00:01:14,034 --> 00:01:16,409 How did it happen? It didn't make any sense. 23 00:01:16,453 --> 00:01:19,830 MISSY: Nothing is safe. Nobody's safe. 24 00:01:19,906 --> 00:01:21,081 You're not safe. 25 00:01:24,503 --> 00:01:28,171 [theme music playing] 26 00:02:00,706 --> 00:02:03,748 MICHELLE: I lived here for a lot of years -- 27 00:02:03,750 --> 00:02:06,543 since '88. 28 00:02:06,545 --> 00:02:08,545 The apartment complex, 29 00:02:08,622 --> 00:02:11,298 it was a lot of single mothers, 30 00:02:11,341 --> 00:02:13,842 and everybody cared about each other and their kids, 31 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,594 you know, like family. 32 00:02:15,596 --> 00:02:21,474 It was just very tranquil and quiet until that day. 33 00:02:27,649 --> 00:02:31,568 My neighbor next door, Charlene, babysat for 34 00:02:31,570 --> 00:02:33,069 a lot of mothers in our complex. 35 00:02:33,146 --> 00:02:35,405 She was with her boys, Dustin 36 00:02:35,407 --> 00:02:40,160 and Derrek, all the time, and we became friends. 37 00:02:40,204 --> 00:02:42,704 I would come over and visit her, and she would come over 38 00:02:42,706 --> 00:02:44,355 to my house and visit me, 39 00:02:44,433 --> 00:02:48,460 and she used to cook, and she made the best snickerdoodles. 40 00:02:49,296 --> 00:02:51,504 That day, you know, I was knocking on 41 00:02:51,548 --> 00:02:53,465 her door and seein' how she was doing that morning, 42 00:02:53,541 --> 00:02:56,509 and no answer. 43 00:02:56,553 --> 00:03:01,181 My sister came over to my house that Monday 44 00:03:01,225 --> 00:03:03,808 and said, "Charlene ain't waking up." 45 00:03:03,885 --> 00:03:05,310 It's early in the morning, 46 00:03:05,387 --> 00:03:08,897 so I'm like, what the hell you talking about? 47 00:03:08,974 --> 00:03:11,983 So I got dressed, and I go over there, 48 00:03:13,904 --> 00:03:15,362 I open up the door... 49 00:03:15,364 --> 00:03:17,405 [door creaks open] 50 00:03:20,744 --> 00:03:22,953 The mom was laying on the couch, 51 00:03:24,373 --> 00:03:27,874 and she was just, you know, laying over here like that. 52 00:03:29,211 --> 00:03:30,752 She looked like a ghost. 53 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,464 I picked up Dustin and Derrek 54 00:03:35,425 --> 00:03:38,843 and got 'em out and shut the door 55 00:03:38,845 --> 00:03:41,471 and took 'em over to my sister's house, 56 00:03:41,548 --> 00:03:44,975 and that was it -- ain't nobody went back up 57 00:03:44,977 --> 00:03:47,435 in there until the police came up in there. 58 00:03:55,195 --> 00:03:57,362 -Morning. -Morning. 59 00:03:57,439 --> 00:04:00,365 Can I get a pair of size 11s and maybe throw a game? 60 00:04:00,442 --> 00:04:01,700 Sure. 61 00:04:01,735 --> 00:04:02,951 At that point, I was 62 00:04:03,028 --> 00:04:05,078 with the Twinsburg Township Police Department. 63 00:04:05,122 --> 00:04:08,373 I had under five years of service. 64 00:04:08,450 --> 00:04:11,001 It wasn't a rookie status, but might as well be. 65 00:04:14,506 --> 00:04:18,008 It came out as an innocent call of an unknown injury. 66 00:04:18,126 --> 00:04:19,134 [indistinct radio chatter] 67 00:04:19,210 --> 00:04:21,344 Got the address -- I had may have been 68 00:04:21,421 --> 00:04:23,847 in the car for two minutes, and I'll never forget, 69 00:04:23,923 --> 00:04:26,266 the dispatcher came on the radio, 70 00:04:26,301 --> 00:04:28,852 she just said, "Eric, this sounds bad, hurry." 71 00:04:28,928 --> 00:04:33,189 [sirens and indistinct radio chatter] 72 00:04:38,447 --> 00:04:41,573 As I approached that February at this time, 73 00:04:41,575 --> 00:04:44,993 I'm the only one here as far as worker bees. 74 00:04:54,963 --> 00:04:57,297 Here's where Charlene lived. 75 00:05:05,057 --> 00:05:06,890 You first walked in the apartment, 76 00:05:06,966 --> 00:05:09,100 the apartment wasn't ransacked. 77 00:05:09,177 --> 00:05:11,478 Um, and obviously, you see the body, 78 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,271 and you see what it had gone through. 79 00:05:16,651 --> 00:05:20,111 She was laying on the couch, under a blanket, um, 80 00:05:20,188 --> 00:05:21,988 dried blood on her face. 81 00:05:25,369 --> 00:05:28,286 She had a belt wrapped around her neck. 82 00:05:28,363 --> 00:05:31,831 It was early morning, and... 83 00:05:31,875 --> 00:05:34,459 she had been on the couch for a while. 84 00:05:34,536 --> 00:05:38,004 So obviously, it had happened the night before sometime... 85 00:05:39,299 --> 00:05:40,673 in the overnight hours. 86 00:05:41,927 --> 00:05:44,803 Her arms and hands had some defense wounds. 87 00:05:48,767 --> 00:05:50,433 It was the first murder scene I'd ever even seen 88 00:05:50,435 --> 00:05:52,352 in real life. 89 00:05:52,354 --> 00:05:53,853 Your initial reactions, 90 00:05:53,897 --> 00:05:57,232 it was -- it was an uh-oh moment. 91 00:05:57,234 --> 00:05:59,401 It wasn't panic, it wasn't fear. 92 00:05:59,477 --> 00:06:02,445 It was just like, I gotta get this right, I gotta be perfect. 93 00:06:02,522 --> 00:06:03,813 I got to be good. 94 00:06:16,378 --> 00:06:20,755 PHYLLIS: I got a call from one of her neighbors. 95 00:06:20,874 --> 00:06:24,467 Charlene didn't have a phone in her apartment. 96 00:06:26,138 --> 00:06:28,096 And they said, you know, come over to 97 00:06:28,173 --> 00:06:29,973 Charlene's apartment. 98 00:06:32,269 --> 00:06:35,353 And they says, "Don't -- don't rush," you know, 99 00:06:35,355 --> 00:06:38,565 but they said, "Charlene has been hurt." 100 00:06:38,608 --> 00:06:41,443 I just felt, you know, just worrying. 101 00:06:41,445 --> 00:06:45,697 I says, well, you know, how bad was Charlene hurt? 102 00:06:45,773 --> 00:06:50,452 And, like, her two boys were there, were they okay? 103 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,913 Did she need help? 104 00:06:53,957 --> 00:06:56,332 You know, for me to... 105 00:06:56,409 --> 00:06:58,960 like, watch the, you know, the boys. 106 00:07:02,257 --> 00:07:04,132 You know, I had 107 00:07:04,209 --> 00:07:09,137 no idea what I was walking into. 108 00:07:13,268 --> 00:07:15,268 When I got there, they wouldn't... 109 00:07:16,188 --> 00:07:18,354 they wouldn't let me into Charlene's apartment. 110 00:07:18,431 --> 00:07:19,856 I said, "I want to see her." 111 00:07:21,610 --> 00:07:24,068 And they said, "You can't." 112 00:07:25,489 --> 00:07:27,447 And that's when, 113 00:07:27,449 --> 00:07:30,575 yeah, the police said, you know that she had been, 114 00:07:30,610 --> 00:07:32,243 you know, murdered. 115 00:07:36,458 --> 00:07:38,708 I was, like, stunned. 116 00:07:38,826 --> 00:07:43,004 It was just -- you know, this can't be. 117 00:07:47,427 --> 00:07:48,801 KEN: I was in college. 118 00:07:48,803 --> 00:07:51,763 So unfortunately, I was out of state when I got 119 00:07:51,839 --> 00:07:54,974 the news, and I ended up calling my mother... 120 00:07:55,018 --> 00:07:57,560 [sighs] 121 00:08:01,191 --> 00:08:02,273 And... 122 00:08:03,985 --> 00:08:05,235 She's the one that told me. 123 00:08:06,154 --> 00:08:08,238 So, um... [clears throat] 124 00:08:10,283 --> 00:08:13,076 So she just basically said she was gone. 125 00:08:15,038 --> 00:08:19,457 And then, you know, I flew back up to town, 126 00:08:19,534 --> 00:08:23,586 and, you know, the hardest challenge was she has two kids. 127 00:08:23,588 --> 00:08:26,214 One was three, the other one was two, 128 00:08:26,291 --> 00:08:30,885 and there was no father figure for them to lean on. 129 00:08:32,681 --> 00:08:34,130 Throughout the day, 130 00:08:34,206 --> 00:08:37,600 our chief started calling in other officers of ours, 131 00:08:37,602 --> 00:08:41,062 because there's work to be done, there's interviews to be done. 132 00:08:41,139 --> 00:08:43,731 There's searching to be done for evidence, 133 00:08:43,733 --> 00:08:45,358 for clues, for whatever. 134 00:08:47,862 --> 00:08:49,320 The evidence we collected, 135 00:08:49,397 --> 00:08:53,199 I wanna say there was over 150 items. 136 00:08:58,957 --> 00:09:01,416 So we took -- cut out carpet. 137 00:09:01,418 --> 00:09:04,335 We basically disassembled the couch and collected each piece. 138 00:09:04,337 --> 00:09:07,547 We went through the sink drains and the tub drains. 139 00:09:11,886 --> 00:09:13,845 It was reported to us that the house was locked. 140 00:09:13,847 --> 00:09:16,806 The neighbor discovered it when she went over to get the kids. 141 00:09:18,852 --> 00:09:21,436 We did not find any forced entry. 142 00:09:21,438 --> 00:09:23,104 The deadbolt was locked. 143 00:09:30,196 --> 00:09:31,821 PATRICIA: I don't think I've ever had 144 00:09:31,898 --> 00:09:34,490 a case where somebody's locked the door behind them, 145 00:09:34,567 --> 00:09:37,827 honestly, in the 28 years I've been around. 146 00:09:37,829 --> 00:09:39,436 I mean, it's just rare. 147 00:09:39,438 --> 00:09:43,166 It was obvious their concern was keeping those kids inside. 148 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,546 The sad part is, is those kids 149 00:09:48,623 --> 00:09:51,341 spent the night with their mom, who was gone. 150 00:09:51,417 --> 00:09:54,927 That was the tough part of the case for everybody, 151 00:09:54,971 --> 00:09:58,348 is those kids had to endure that through the night. 152 00:09:59,809 --> 00:10:02,518 ERIC: These kids, two and three, 153 00:10:02,595 --> 00:10:05,438 spent the night in the apartment with their dead mother. 154 00:10:05,482 --> 00:10:07,523 I mean that's... 155 00:10:07,525 --> 00:10:10,360 that's -- that's not -- that doesn't happen, right? 156 00:10:10,436 --> 00:10:12,445 I just -- I don't know how they did it. 157 00:10:13,448 --> 00:10:15,281 PATRICIA: A lot of cases, boyfriends are usually 158 00:10:15,283 --> 00:10:16,783 the number one suspect. 159 00:10:16,785 --> 00:10:19,369 Depending on what the situation is, 160 00:10:19,445 --> 00:10:22,372 they're your top tier from -- from the beginning. 161 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:25,500 In interviewing the family, 162 00:10:25,576 --> 00:10:29,337 we found out Charlene's kids had two different fathers. 163 00:10:30,215 --> 00:10:32,799 Dustin, the oldest boy, 164 00:10:32,801 --> 00:10:35,426 his dad is Alan Redmond. 165 00:10:35,503 --> 00:10:40,598 The father of the youngest child was Willard McCarley. 166 00:10:42,268 --> 00:10:45,561 Our chief started calling in other officers of ours. 167 00:10:45,638 --> 00:10:50,024 One of our other officers had just showed up, and when 168 00:10:50,101 --> 00:10:53,820 the older boy saw him, he just pointed and said, "He did it. 169 00:10:53,822 --> 00:10:55,071 He hurt my mommy." 170 00:10:56,074 --> 00:10:59,492 What I thought at that moment was why him? 171 00:11:00,537 --> 00:11:02,912 It's not the first officer he'd seen today. 172 00:11:02,989 --> 00:11:07,542 So it was very strange and very suspicious. 173 00:11:09,337 --> 00:11:11,796 It didn't cross my mind that the person he pointed at 174 00:11:11,873 --> 00:11:13,881 had anything to do with it specifically. 175 00:11:13,958 --> 00:11:17,427 So it had to be a characteristic that 176 00:11:17,429 --> 00:11:20,304 he shared with the person who did do it. 177 00:11:21,474 --> 00:11:24,225 Was it somebody dressed up as a cop? 178 00:11:24,302 --> 00:11:25,852 It's possible. 179 00:11:43,955 --> 00:11:48,124 STEPHANIE: In my 25-year-plus career as a reporter, 180 00:11:48,159 --> 00:11:51,335 I love the fact that you never know what you're gonna do 181 00:11:51,412 --> 00:11:55,423 on any given day -- as soon as I heard about this case, 182 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:58,384 I, you know, delved into it and talked to the family, 183 00:11:58,428 --> 00:12:01,846 and I wrote a couple of stories. 184 00:12:01,848 --> 00:12:04,515 This type of a murder 185 00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:08,436 in a place like Twinsburg is very rare, 186 00:12:08,554 --> 00:12:10,813 and obviously very disturbing to the -- 187 00:12:10,890 --> 00:12:13,191 to the people that live there, because they're not used to 188 00:12:13,193 --> 00:12:14,650 reading about, you know, 189 00:12:14,652 --> 00:12:18,070 a woman who's been strangled and bludgeoned to death. 190 00:12:19,574 --> 00:12:21,616 CHARLES: So the first time that I actually heard about the whole 191 00:12:21,692 --> 00:12:23,284 Charlene Puffenbarger murder case 192 00:12:23,361 --> 00:12:26,370 was when I was working at the auto plant that I was at. 193 00:12:26,447 --> 00:12:28,748 The plant was horrible about gossip. 194 00:12:30,043 --> 00:12:31,542 There were people that acted like they knew 195 00:12:31,544 --> 00:12:33,002 what was going on. 196 00:12:35,507 --> 00:12:37,256 You'd get little snippets of comments, 197 00:12:37,291 --> 00:12:38,299 you know, different places. 198 00:12:38,376 --> 00:12:40,026 You know, they think somebody that 199 00:12:40,028 --> 00:12:43,304 works here is involved in it, all kinds of different stuff. 200 00:12:47,852 --> 00:12:49,477 JAKE: You can't help but think that, you know, 201 00:12:49,595 --> 00:12:53,105 maybe this guy is the guy that did it, or maybe this guy knows 202 00:12:53,149 --> 00:12:54,774 who did it but is not telling anybody. 203 00:12:54,818 --> 00:12:56,484 Maybe you're -- you're helping 204 00:12:56,561 --> 00:12:59,070 somebody inadvertently by fixing their car. 205 00:13:04,619 --> 00:13:07,662 This was my first saddle I ever bought, 206 00:13:08,498 --> 00:13:10,623 and I used it for years, 207 00:13:10,667 --> 00:13:13,000 and then I got into the sheriff's mounted unit, 208 00:13:13,002 --> 00:13:16,712 a horse unit, and then eventually, 209 00:13:16,789 --> 00:13:18,506 in the detective bureau. 210 00:13:18,583 --> 00:13:21,425 Anything where somebody got hurt, 211 00:13:21,502 --> 00:13:22,993 that was my case. 212 00:13:24,347 --> 00:13:27,682 In looking back at Charlene's case, during that time, 213 00:13:27,684 --> 00:13:29,183 I was on edge, 214 00:13:29,185 --> 00:13:32,520 and you just want to do it for the family and for Charlene 215 00:13:32,597 --> 00:13:36,190 and -- and even the residents there that were so afraid, 216 00:13:36,192 --> 00:13:39,986 you know, that -- that that person was gonna come back. 217 00:13:40,989 --> 00:13:44,699 Dustin was her three-year-old son, and there's no doubt 218 00:13:44,775 --> 00:13:48,661 in my mind when Dustin was pointing at this deputy, 219 00:13:48,705 --> 00:13:51,831 you had to believe that maybe it was 220 00:13:51,833 --> 00:13:54,041 a police officer involved. 221 00:13:55,378 --> 00:13:58,004 You can have very good witnesses with kids, 222 00:13:58,006 --> 00:14:00,464 especially in a traumatic event. 223 00:14:00,541 --> 00:14:03,843 They remember things -- they may not be verbal, 224 00:14:03,845 --> 00:14:06,846 but they can point them out. 225 00:14:06,848 --> 00:14:09,765 They can tell you, to a certain degree, 226 00:14:09,842 --> 00:14:13,603 what went on -- for an officer to be involved, 227 00:14:13,605 --> 00:14:15,980 that'd be not a good case scenario, 228 00:14:16,057 --> 00:14:20,109 but he was only pointing out this black tuff jacket 229 00:14:20,111 --> 00:14:22,320 that we had back then, the winter jacket. 230 00:14:22,322 --> 00:14:23,779 And I know it was the buttons. 231 00:14:23,814 --> 00:14:25,323 If you -- if -- I wish I had my tuffy coat, 232 00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:27,867 I could show you -- they stand out. 233 00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:32,705 Now we need to look for a suspect with a police jacket, 234 00:14:32,749 --> 00:14:34,582 tuffy jacket, black one. 235 00:14:41,841 --> 00:14:44,675 -Hello! -Hi, Skye. 236 00:14:44,752 --> 00:14:46,552 -How you doing today? -Good, how are you? 237 00:14:46,596 --> 00:14:48,971 -I'm good, thank you. -Everything going okay? 238 00:14:49,048 --> 00:14:51,140 It is! Are you ready for dinner? -Okay, I'm ready. 239 00:14:52,101 --> 00:14:53,851 PHYLLIS: When it happened, 240 00:14:53,928 --> 00:14:58,898 my first thought was Emma. 241 00:14:58,942 --> 00:15:02,777 Charlene and Emma White went to school together, 242 00:15:02,779 --> 00:15:06,572 and they lived in the same apartment complex. 243 00:15:07,241 --> 00:15:12,161 She came to Charlene's apartment, and I think Emma was 244 00:15:12,238 --> 00:15:16,457 wanting some money, which, you know, Charlene didn't have it. 245 00:15:17,752 --> 00:15:20,878 Charlene offered her some food, but... 246 00:15:20,964 --> 00:15:22,922 she wouldn't take it. 247 00:15:22,966 --> 00:15:26,676 Emma threatened her after Charlene wouldn't give her any 248 00:15:26,678 --> 00:15:32,598 money, and then, of course, Charlene was afraid of Emma. 249 00:15:38,982 --> 00:15:42,274 MISSY: When we got called in for an investigation, 250 00:15:42,318 --> 00:15:46,445 they kept asking me, "We wanna know about Emma White." 251 00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:50,616 Emma lived in one of the apartments and went 252 00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:54,870 to high school with Charlene and I -- she's mean. 253 00:15:57,875 --> 00:16:02,294 In school, she was just constant fighting with somebody. 254 00:16:02,338 --> 00:16:04,964 So everybody knew to stay away from her. 255 00:16:06,467 --> 00:16:12,471 Miss Emma made me feel kind of nervous, and that's all I know. 256 00:16:13,474 --> 00:16:16,851 And I go in my little world, and she'd be in her little world. 257 00:16:18,604 --> 00:16:23,357 Up in the complex, there was a huge drug bust up there. 258 00:16:23,434 --> 00:16:25,234 I think Emma thought, you know, 259 00:16:25,311 --> 00:16:28,112 Charlene was the nark and got 'em busted for drugs. 260 00:16:28,114 --> 00:16:31,991 So then, every time Emma saw Charlene, she would just jump in 261 00:16:32,035 --> 00:16:34,577 her face and yell and just be 262 00:16:34,579 --> 00:16:39,832 belligerent, and Charlene was just so nice, and she would tell 263 00:16:39,876 --> 00:16:41,375 her that she's not the one who narked, 264 00:16:41,452 --> 00:16:43,919 she would never do that, and whatever you're doing is 265 00:16:43,996 --> 00:16:47,339 your business, but Emma didn't believe her. 266 00:16:52,722 --> 00:16:54,305 PATRICIA: Emma White -- 267 00:16:54,381 --> 00:16:56,390 we did track her down. 268 00:16:56,392 --> 00:16:59,060 Emma and Charlene, 269 00:16:59,136 --> 00:17:01,937 they argued all the time, they just did not get along. 270 00:17:02,732 --> 00:17:04,607 She did have a criminal history 271 00:17:04,683 --> 00:17:09,028 involving an assault back in high school. 272 00:17:09,072 --> 00:17:11,697 Emma White had denied any wrongdoing. 273 00:17:11,741 --> 00:17:15,534 And so, you know, obviously, we had to confirm her alibi, 274 00:17:15,578 --> 00:17:17,161 because she was high enough up on the list 275 00:17:17,238 --> 00:17:21,791 of suspects, uh, to have that done. 276 00:17:21,867 --> 00:17:25,419 But for the time being, we wanted to talk with 277 00:17:25,496 --> 00:17:28,089 Alan Redmond -- he was the father of Dustin. 278 00:17:28,091 --> 00:17:31,133 We also really wanted to talk to 279 00:17:31,135 --> 00:17:34,136 the father of the younger son, Willard McCarley. 280 00:17:46,943 --> 00:17:49,735 ERIC: When we got to the McCarleys' residence, 281 00:17:51,364 --> 00:17:54,657 they let us in, but Willard wasn't there, 282 00:17:54,659 --> 00:17:58,452 so we talked to his mom and dad, Larry and Sarah McCarley. 283 00:17:59,831 --> 00:18:01,163 They sat down and talked to us. 284 00:18:01,165 --> 00:18:05,126 My initial impression of the McCarley family, 285 00:18:05,202 --> 00:18:08,170 I didn't have a lot of trust for Larry for some reason. 286 00:18:11,425 --> 00:18:16,095 Charlene, she told me once, Larry tried to pin her down 287 00:18:16,139 --> 00:18:20,349 and force himself upon her. 288 00:18:21,727 --> 00:18:25,437 Then she said, "You're supposed to be, you know, 289 00:18:25,439 --> 00:18:27,106 the grandfather of this, 290 00:18:27,150 --> 00:18:30,067 you know, baby," said, you know, 291 00:18:30,144 --> 00:18:32,653 "How can you do, you know, such a thing?" 292 00:18:37,910 --> 00:18:40,244 PATRICIA: Larry McCarley worked with Willard 293 00:18:40,321 --> 00:18:43,247 at a local auto factory. 294 00:18:45,334 --> 00:18:48,294 Larry did have a sexual history 295 00:18:48,337 --> 00:18:53,340 where he had touched his -- his cousin. 296 00:18:53,417 --> 00:18:56,969 Um, no charges were filed. 297 00:18:59,515 --> 00:19:02,516 But regarding the assault that Charlene 298 00:19:02,593 --> 00:19:05,603 had talked about with Larry, 299 00:19:05,679 --> 00:19:10,691 Larry just vehemently denied it, 300 00:19:10,768 --> 00:19:12,026 that it didn't happen. 301 00:19:12,028 --> 00:19:16,864 She's making it up, and -- and it just, um... 302 00:19:16,941 --> 00:19:18,699 it kind of went nowhere. 303 00:19:18,776 --> 00:19:20,993 It was her word against his. 304 00:19:21,037 --> 00:19:24,455 There we go. And what can I get you to drink? 305 00:19:24,531 --> 00:19:26,040 -Lemonade. -Lemonade? 306 00:19:26,042 --> 00:19:26,999 Mm-hmm. 307 00:19:27,043 --> 00:19:28,617 [indistinct chatter] 308 00:19:28,694 --> 00:19:33,464 PATRICIA: When they continued interviewing Larry's family, 309 00:19:33,466 --> 00:19:37,885 Sarah, Larry's wife, was interviewed. 310 00:19:39,347 --> 00:19:43,265 Her reaction when she heard about the death of Charlene 311 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:44,850 is not, oh my God, 312 00:19:44,852 --> 00:19:50,773 you know, Charlene, it's, "I want to adopt my grandson." 313 00:19:52,026 --> 00:19:55,569 We just completely bypassed Charlene and -- and went and 314 00:19:55,604 --> 00:19:57,095 decided that, you know, 315 00:19:57,097 --> 00:20:00,658 this is what she wanted to do, which was kind of unusual. 316 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,119 Because she wanted to adopt Derrek, 317 00:20:04,196 --> 00:20:05,913 which is kind of strange. 318 00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:09,833 I thought, well, was it the McCarleys that killed Charlene? 319 00:20:09,910 --> 00:20:13,462 You have to go with it until you can prove it otherwise. 320 00:20:27,395 --> 00:20:30,562 ERIC: It wasn't long going into the investigation, 321 00:20:30,606 --> 00:20:34,984 we get this pool of potential suspects, these names, 322 00:20:34,986 --> 00:20:38,028 including Willard, the father of one of the boys. 323 00:20:38,105 --> 00:20:40,572 Could have been Larry, who was Willard's father, 324 00:20:40,574 --> 00:20:41,949 and Alan Redmond, 325 00:20:42,026 --> 00:20:43,617 the father of Charlene's other son. 326 00:20:43,619 --> 00:20:46,036 It could have been a neighbor. 327 00:20:46,038 --> 00:20:49,164 Emma and Charlene just did not like each other. 328 00:20:49,241 --> 00:20:51,500 Could have been, you know, all of them, 329 00:20:51,577 --> 00:20:55,587 but not one piece of physical evidence. 330 00:20:56,632 --> 00:20:58,966 It was the all-inclusive game of clue, 331 00:20:59,043 --> 00:21:02,845 because anybody had the opportunity to do it. 332 00:21:03,848 --> 00:21:05,347 We knew it was solvable. 333 00:21:05,424 --> 00:21:09,184 We're still just trying to find that one thing. 334 00:21:14,233 --> 00:21:15,816 PHYLLIS: Charlene and Alan, 335 00:21:15,893 --> 00:21:17,901 the father of her first son, 336 00:21:17,903 --> 00:21:21,196 probably lived together for about a year, 337 00:21:21,273 --> 00:21:25,576 and then things just weren't going that smooth. 338 00:21:25,652 --> 00:21:28,871 Alan, he was sort of, like, controlling. 339 00:21:29,999 --> 00:21:34,251 One time, he came to the house, and he came to the door. 340 00:21:34,328 --> 00:21:37,796 It was late, but he was wanting to see Charlene, 341 00:21:37,798 --> 00:21:41,842 and I said, "No," I said, you know, "She's already in bed." 342 00:21:43,012 --> 00:21:44,345 It was something about him. 343 00:21:44,421 --> 00:21:47,097 It was hard for me to put my finger on. 344 00:21:47,174 --> 00:21:50,184 I just didn't care for him. 345 00:21:50,186 --> 00:21:54,521 Charlene didn't stay with Alan very long. 346 00:21:54,598 --> 00:21:56,690 I guess it was just tension. 347 00:21:56,767 --> 00:21:59,443 She said that was enough, so she came home. 348 00:22:00,446 --> 00:22:05,657 And then Charlene, she started dating a guy, Willard McCarley. 349 00:22:06,535 --> 00:22:09,411 She went out with Willard on her birthday, 350 00:22:09,488 --> 00:22:11,163 and she was very happy. 351 00:22:11,207 --> 00:22:15,000 She was wanting to form a family. 352 00:22:15,044 --> 00:22:20,339 And so she got pregnant with her second baby with Willard, 353 00:22:20,383 --> 00:22:24,093 but when Charlene told Willard she was pregnant, 354 00:22:24,211 --> 00:22:25,844 he denied it. 355 00:22:26,972 --> 00:22:30,724 And he says, "Well, you know, it's not my baby." 356 00:22:30,801 --> 00:22:33,143 She had no doubt, because when she 357 00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:37,731 was seeing him, it was strictly him. 358 00:22:37,808 --> 00:22:40,776 She did have a paternity test, because I think 359 00:22:40,853 --> 00:22:42,403 Willard's mother, 360 00:22:42,479 --> 00:22:48,200 Sarah McCarley, wanted to make sure that it was her grandson. 361 00:22:48,244 --> 00:22:49,701 And then it came back. 362 00:22:49,703 --> 00:22:52,538 Willard was the father. 363 00:23:07,721 --> 00:23:10,013 ERIC: When I met Willard, 364 00:23:10,090 --> 00:23:12,850 he lived in the basement of his parents' house. 365 00:23:12,852 --> 00:23:17,271 I think he was nonchalant, very carefree. 366 00:23:17,347 --> 00:23:19,898 You know, he kind of had that -- 367 00:23:19,942 --> 00:23:23,694 that aura about him of he can do no wrong. 368 00:23:26,574 --> 00:23:29,408 PATRICIA: Willard, as far as the last time 369 00:23:29,410 --> 00:23:30,676 he had seen Charlene, 370 00:23:30,678 --> 00:23:32,619 he advised it was two days before the murder. 371 00:23:32,621 --> 00:23:37,541 It was at the complex that Charlene lived at, and they had 372 00:23:37,618 --> 00:23:41,962 a conversation, and according to him, it was fine. 373 00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:46,300 There was no issues, and he was only there for a few minutes, 374 00:23:46,376 --> 00:23:48,552 and then he left. 375 00:23:49,513 --> 00:23:52,306 ERIC: He claimed that she called him 376 00:23:52,382 --> 00:23:55,767 to discuss the results of the paternity test. 377 00:23:57,563 --> 00:24:01,273 So he knew that she had him, he knew what her next step was. 378 00:24:01,317 --> 00:24:04,193 She had been trying to get child support. 379 00:24:05,696 --> 00:24:06,862 That night of the murder, 380 00:24:06,939 --> 00:24:08,113 he said he was with his girlfriend. 381 00:24:08,157 --> 00:24:10,115 We talked to the girlfriend. 382 00:24:10,117 --> 00:24:13,368 She verified that they were together that Sunday night. 383 00:24:14,830 --> 00:24:16,788 But... 384 00:24:16,790 --> 00:24:18,874 you know, you kind of take that with a grain of salt. 385 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,044 Did you notice the license plate when you come in? 386 00:24:24,548 --> 00:24:26,632 I kind of debated between a horse theme 387 00:24:26,675 --> 00:24:28,675 or a cop theme when I went with the "Cuff M." 388 00:24:32,515 --> 00:24:35,807 In the investigation, when talking with Alan Redmond, 389 00:24:35,851 --> 00:24:39,144 he advised that he had last seen Charlene 390 00:24:39,230 --> 00:24:42,105 probably about a week before. 391 00:24:42,182 --> 00:24:46,527 And Alan was very timely with his child support. 392 00:24:46,603 --> 00:24:49,279 There was -- didn't appear to be any problems 393 00:24:49,281 --> 00:24:54,076 with him as far as relationship with Charlene. 394 00:24:54,152 --> 00:24:59,039 Mr. Redmond had stated that the night of the murder, 395 00:24:59,116 --> 00:25:01,291 he was at his house 396 00:25:01,293 --> 00:25:04,920 with his girlfriend, and so, you know, obviously, 397 00:25:04,997 --> 00:25:07,172 we had to look at his alibi. 398 00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:09,841 ERIC: On this particular case, 399 00:25:09,885 --> 00:25:13,136 there's just a lot of legwork in verifying all 400 00:25:13,213 --> 00:25:16,890 of their alibis, because again, at that point in time, 401 00:25:16,967 --> 00:25:18,809 nobody was the hardened suspect. 402 00:25:18,811 --> 00:25:20,269 You don't have physical evidence right now. 403 00:25:20,304 --> 00:25:22,187 So everybody's in play. 404 00:25:22,231 --> 00:25:24,856 We just -- we were lost. 405 00:25:33,492 --> 00:25:35,826 PHYLLIS: After my daughter was murdered, 406 00:25:35,902 --> 00:25:40,956 when Charlene's oldest, Dustin, first got here, 407 00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:43,834 he seemed okay. 408 00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:48,463 And then, a couple of days later... 409 00:25:51,885 --> 00:25:54,845 Dustin, he was sitting there in the chair 410 00:25:54,921 --> 00:25:57,139 and playing around. 411 00:25:57,141 --> 00:26:00,142 He picks up this toy telephone, 412 00:26:01,437 --> 00:26:04,563 and he just starts talking, 413 00:26:07,026 --> 00:26:08,692 saying all these things. 414 00:26:08,769 --> 00:26:11,486 I said -- stuff that's just not normal. 415 00:26:12,781 --> 00:26:15,240 "He hurt my mommy. 416 00:26:15,284 --> 00:26:20,162 The policeman did it. The purple stick." 417 00:26:20,238 --> 00:26:23,749 Just all different little sayings 418 00:26:23,792 --> 00:26:26,251 that were just not right. 419 00:26:28,130 --> 00:26:29,838 You know, where she just kept 420 00:26:29,956 --> 00:26:34,384 kicking, trying to get, you know, away 421 00:26:34,461 --> 00:26:36,678 from him -- you can see.... 422 00:26:40,601 --> 00:26:43,393 tears in Dustin's face. 423 00:26:44,980 --> 00:26:47,856 I just grabbed papers, and I 424 00:26:47,933 --> 00:26:51,902 just kept scribbling whatever he said. 425 00:27:02,873 --> 00:27:04,414 PATRICIA: It was suggested rather than 426 00:27:04,491 --> 00:27:07,334 try to interview Charlene's son, Dustin, 427 00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:10,745 that they would let 428 00:27:10,822 --> 00:27:14,883 the child psychologist, Dr. Lord, interview him. 429 00:27:15,001 --> 00:27:16,843 They're more well-versed in 430 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,762 interviewing young people like that. 431 00:27:26,146 --> 00:27:29,940 Dr. Lord got a lot out of Dustin. 432 00:27:31,985 --> 00:27:33,902 There was some mention of the blood, 433 00:27:35,447 --> 00:27:37,072 the pillow. 434 00:27:37,074 --> 00:27:40,033 There's a fascination with the gold buttons 435 00:27:40,110 --> 00:27:43,286 on this police officer's jacket. 436 00:27:43,288 --> 00:27:47,791 The argument between two people, back and forth. 437 00:27:49,336 --> 00:27:52,462 And the comment, "I will kill you." 438 00:27:52,539 --> 00:27:55,757 I mean, he really started to come out with 439 00:27:55,834 --> 00:27:59,636 almost a play-by-play, and the floodgates opened. 440 00:28:10,023 --> 00:28:11,440 I want to show you something. 441 00:28:14,528 --> 00:28:18,113 This photo, the last photo of her being 442 00:28:18,190 --> 00:28:21,992 at my son's birthday party in Burger King. 443 00:28:23,454 --> 00:28:26,246 Just how happy she was and her son, 444 00:28:26,323 --> 00:28:31,460 Dustin, that day -- she was a loving, caring mom. 445 00:28:31,536 --> 00:28:34,963 After Charlene's death, I had family stay with me. 446 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,676 It made me feel kind of nervous not knowing who did it. 447 00:28:39,753 --> 00:28:44,598 I figured that it might not get to be solved. 448 00:28:44,674 --> 00:28:49,102 But I wanted the -- wanted it to be solved, 449 00:28:49,179 --> 00:28:50,896 because of her kids. 450 00:28:50,939 --> 00:28:52,564 They deserve that. 451 00:28:53,442 --> 00:28:56,234 And her mother -- her mother deserved some -- 452 00:28:56,269 --> 00:28:59,070 I mean, because it took a toll on her. 453 00:29:04,453 --> 00:29:06,995 PATRICIA: As far as the investigation with Emma White, 454 00:29:07,072 --> 00:29:08,914 she was a resident at the complex where 455 00:29:08,957 --> 00:29:10,457 Charlene lived. 456 00:29:10,534 --> 00:29:14,169 They didn't get along -- her story that was given of her 457 00:29:14,246 --> 00:29:17,047 whereabouts during the time Charlene was killed was 458 00:29:17,049 --> 00:29:19,257 verified by those detectives, 459 00:29:20,803 --> 00:29:24,971 and plus, Dustin said that it was a policeman and not a woman, 460 00:29:25,933 --> 00:29:27,849 and also, she passed a polygraph. 461 00:29:29,186 --> 00:29:32,771 So she was taken off the list as far as suspects. 462 00:29:33,565 --> 00:29:36,775 There was a lot of polygraphs given in this case. 463 00:29:36,777 --> 00:29:40,862 Everyone that they polygraphed passed. 464 00:29:43,242 --> 00:29:48,745 But the McCarleys, Larry and Willard, 465 00:29:48,822 --> 00:29:51,373 none of them agreed to a polygraph. 466 00:29:51,449 --> 00:29:53,625 [distant siren wailing] 467 00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:56,628 All of them interviewed with our detectives. 468 00:29:56,672 --> 00:30:01,341 But whenever somebody denies taking a polygraph, it will send 469 00:30:01,418 --> 00:30:04,719 a red flag up as far as we need to look into this 470 00:30:04,796 --> 00:30:06,137 a little bit more. 471 00:30:07,224 --> 00:30:08,740 Willard McCarley, 472 00:30:08,742 --> 00:30:13,270 his alibi was, he had been out with his new girlfriend, 473 00:30:13,346 --> 00:30:15,522 left her place about 11 o'clock, 474 00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,149 went home, fell asleep on the couch, 475 00:30:18,151 --> 00:30:21,945 and then his brother come in later. 476 00:30:24,157 --> 00:30:26,449 In interviewing Willard's girlfriend, 477 00:30:26,526 --> 00:30:28,326 she pretty much confirmed his alibi, 478 00:30:28,370 --> 00:30:31,705 that he left about 11 o'clock, and he bought her flowers 479 00:30:31,781 --> 00:30:35,250 the next day and delivered to 'em at work for her, 480 00:30:35,327 --> 00:30:38,712 and she thought was kind of unusual but nice. 481 00:30:38,788 --> 00:30:42,632 Larry McCarley, his father, had been at home, 482 00:30:42,634 --> 00:30:45,969 and Sarah came in later on that evening. 483 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,107 STEPHANIE: It was -- it was a long time. 484 00:30:59,109 --> 00:31:01,067 It went unsolved for so long. 485 00:31:01,144 --> 00:31:02,569 It really did have an impact on 486 00:31:02,646 --> 00:31:05,447 the community, and they never forgot about it. 487 00:31:06,366 --> 00:31:10,285 We did a story on the -- one of the anniversaries of Charlene's 488 00:31:10,362 --> 00:31:13,121 death where the family and community members 489 00:31:13,198 --> 00:31:14,831 were out and, you know, 490 00:31:14,908 --> 00:31:17,459 they were putting flyers up around, asking for people to 491 00:31:17,461 --> 00:31:20,253 come forward with any information they had. 492 00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:24,883 And so even though this case had grown cold at that point, 493 00:31:24,927 --> 00:31:27,218 they had not given up hope that it would someday 494 00:31:27,220 --> 00:31:28,845 be solved. 495 00:31:28,847 --> 00:31:30,931 There's a murderer running around. 496 00:31:31,007 --> 00:31:34,225 Let's be factual about it -- someplace, there's a murderer, 497 00:31:34,227 --> 00:31:37,437 and we need to get him off the streets. 498 00:31:37,439 --> 00:31:39,189 Knowing that they're still out there. 499 00:31:39,265 --> 00:31:40,774 They have their life... 500 00:31:42,027 --> 00:31:43,443 and hers was taken. 501 00:31:45,072 --> 00:31:46,521 It's just not fair. 502 00:31:48,533 --> 00:31:52,077 The most frustrating part about this case is we never 503 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,496 could find that one piece of physical evidence 504 00:31:54,572 --> 00:31:59,542 that actually amounted to anything which proved who 505 00:31:59,619 --> 00:32:02,587 the murderer was or, you know, allowed us to make an arrest. 506 00:32:02,631 --> 00:32:04,631 You know, this thing went on 507 00:32:04,666 --> 00:32:06,967 even long after I left the department. 508 00:32:13,058 --> 00:32:18,770 This is a book of all the newspaper clippings 509 00:32:18,814 --> 00:32:21,022 that we put out of Charlene, 510 00:32:21,057 --> 00:32:23,191 you know, asking for information. 511 00:32:25,112 --> 00:32:29,197 I had these posters printed up 512 00:32:29,199 --> 00:32:32,450 almost every year, you know, to where if some people 513 00:32:32,452 --> 00:32:36,287 would have some information, just for someone to 514 00:32:36,331 --> 00:32:37,789 come forward. 515 00:32:39,292 --> 00:32:42,085 Who murdered my daughter? 516 00:32:43,296 --> 00:32:46,006 Charlene Puffenbarger's life 517 00:32:46,082 --> 00:32:52,637 was cut too short in Twinsburg on January 20th, 1992. 518 00:32:52,639 --> 00:32:54,973 Information wanted. 519 00:32:57,352 --> 00:33:00,103 KEN: My mother is determined, and she was always determined to 520 00:33:00,105 --> 00:33:03,481 make sure we got this solved, and she never gave up 521 00:33:03,525 --> 00:33:06,067 on the case, she constantly was in contact with 522 00:33:06,102 --> 00:33:07,485 the sheriff's department. 523 00:33:07,529 --> 00:33:10,155 ERIC: Charlene's mom, Phyllis, 524 00:33:10,157 --> 00:33:12,282 the things that she has dealt with, 525 00:33:12,284 --> 00:33:15,285 and obviously, just being the mother when your daughter 526 00:33:15,361 --> 00:33:18,455 was murdered, just a strong, 527 00:33:18,457 --> 00:33:22,459 strong woman -- she has the strength 528 00:33:22,494 --> 00:33:26,129 of 17 tractors. 529 00:33:26,206 --> 00:33:28,381 I think she had more faith probably than anybody. 530 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,552 CHARLES: When I was working at the auto plant that I was at, 531 00:33:32,629 --> 00:33:35,096 somebody had been coming into the plant and posting up 532 00:33:35,173 --> 00:33:36,723 on our hallway bulletin boards, 533 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,142 they had been posting up these posters talking about how they 534 00:33:39,219 --> 00:33:40,727 were looking for their daughter's murderer. 535 00:33:40,804 --> 00:33:43,188 And there was a little bit of information on the poster, 536 00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:46,649 but I never thought anything of it. 537 00:33:46,726 --> 00:33:48,068 I... 538 00:33:52,032 --> 00:33:53,231 Huh. 539 00:33:53,241 --> 00:33:55,992 I felt for the girl's parents. I did. 540 00:33:56,787 --> 00:34:00,163 PHYLLIS: It was important for me to keep this in people's minds. 541 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,665 I didn't want Charlene forgotten. 542 00:34:02,742 --> 00:34:06,669 We just needed information to get this solved. 543 00:34:06,671 --> 00:34:08,379 I didn't want to let it go. 544 00:34:08,423 --> 00:34:13,176 Someone had to pay for what they'd done to Charlene. 545 00:34:20,268 --> 00:34:22,143 CHARLES: The auto manufacturing industry was 546 00:34:22,145 --> 00:34:25,021 really big in that Twinsburg area. 547 00:34:25,098 --> 00:34:27,315 They were a huge employer in Northeast Ohio. 548 00:34:27,392 --> 00:34:29,067 They're the reason that most of these towns took off 549 00:34:29,111 --> 00:34:30,819 the way they did. 550 00:34:30,895 --> 00:34:33,655 Every week, I and a couple of other guys would hop in 551 00:34:33,657 --> 00:34:37,117 a car, and we would drive to Canada on Monday, and Friday, 552 00:34:37,193 --> 00:34:40,453 we would come back, and while we were up there, we would work 553 00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:42,205 on getting the lines straightened out, 554 00:34:42,282 --> 00:34:43,790 getting everything working so 555 00:34:43,867 --> 00:34:45,500 that we could sell them to the company. 556 00:34:48,463 --> 00:34:50,922 One of the days we were driving up to Canada, 557 00:34:50,924 --> 00:34:53,550 one of the guys made a comment, like, "I killed somebody, 558 00:34:53,626 --> 00:34:55,218 and it didn't bother me." 559 00:34:55,295 --> 00:34:57,178 You make a comment like that, 560 00:34:57,255 --> 00:34:59,806 like, I don't know if this guy's making stuff up, but when 561 00:34:59,808 --> 00:35:01,558 he mentioned that, you know, 562 00:35:01,634 --> 00:35:04,352 he had actually known Charlene, I worked with this 563 00:35:04,354 --> 00:35:05,854 person for at least 10 years. 564 00:35:05,930 --> 00:35:07,647 It was kind of a shock. 565 00:35:07,724 --> 00:35:09,357 But, you know, there was -- there was so much 566 00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:11,651 boisterous talk and everything all the time. 567 00:35:11,728 --> 00:35:13,987 You didn't know if he was just, you know, playing it off 568 00:35:14,063 --> 00:35:16,990 or whatever, but it's kind of, 569 00:35:17,108 --> 00:35:18,366 you know, a big deal to hear somebody 570 00:35:18,368 --> 00:35:20,618 saying that they killed somebody. 571 00:35:20,620 --> 00:35:22,871 But when it kind of all gets -- when that puzzle gets put 572 00:35:22,873 --> 00:35:25,915 together, and you kind of recognize that, like, 573 00:35:25,992 --> 00:35:28,251 oh, [bleep], this really could be the guy that really 574 00:35:28,328 --> 00:35:30,044 killed this person. 575 00:35:54,946 --> 00:35:56,946 -Yo! -Good. How you doing? 576 00:35:57,782 --> 00:36:00,575 -Coming in to shoot? -Coming in to shoot. 577 00:36:01,369 --> 00:36:03,536 CHARLES: I first met Willard in '94. 578 00:36:05,290 --> 00:36:08,208 We ended up working in the same area in the plant. 579 00:36:08,284 --> 00:36:11,711 Willard had mentioned that he had known Charlene and that she 580 00:36:11,788 --> 00:36:13,713 was claiming that her child was his, 581 00:36:13,715 --> 00:36:15,632 you know, and he did tell me that, so... 582 00:36:15,634 --> 00:36:18,134 I didn't really put two and two together 583 00:36:18,136 --> 00:36:20,136 and think that it was anything bad like that. 584 00:36:20,213 --> 00:36:23,640 But probably a couple years later, 585 00:36:23,716 --> 00:36:26,935 one of the things I had told him was in the Army, some of 586 00:36:27,011 --> 00:36:30,146 the ranges, they will use targets that have human faces. 587 00:36:31,524 --> 00:36:33,858 And the thinking behind it is they want you to... 588 00:36:34,778 --> 00:36:38,196 to get used to shooting at something that's looking back. 589 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:39,614 I had mentioned that to him, and he says, 590 00:36:39,732 --> 00:36:41,223 "Ah, that's not true." 591 00:36:41,301 --> 00:36:43,076 He said, "I killed somebody and looked into their eyes, 592 00:36:43,152 --> 00:36:44,244 "you know, and it didn't bother me, 593 00:36:44,246 --> 00:36:46,162 and I didn't have any problem with that." 594 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,665 And that's not something you hear from everybody. 595 00:36:48,741 --> 00:36:52,001 Charles Kincaid was a very valuable asset. 596 00:36:52,036 --> 00:36:53,544 He had worked with Willard, 597 00:36:53,546 --> 00:36:56,089 and he helped focus the investigation. 598 00:36:56,124 --> 00:36:58,675 [gunshot blasts] 599 00:37:12,482 --> 00:37:15,525 It would always circle back around to Willard. 600 00:37:15,527 --> 00:37:18,820 It just kept coming back to him, but 601 00:37:18,896 --> 00:37:22,657 it just wasn't enough for the arrest warrant. 602 00:37:32,711 --> 00:37:34,919 We got a call one night of a domestic issue 603 00:37:34,921 --> 00:37:38,965 at Willard McCarley's house on Foghorn Lane. 604 00:37:39,042 --> 00:37:43,386 Upon our guys walking into his garage, 605 00:37:43,463 --> 00:37:47,807 there was a police jacket hanging in the garage, 606 00:37:47,809 --> 00:37:51,352 and so this officer, immediately upon 607 00:37:51,429 --> 00:37:56,274 seeing that coat, knew our victim's son, Dustin, 608 00:37:56,276 --> 00:37:59,027 kept saying, "You hurt my mom," 609 00:37:59,103 --> 00:38:00,862 and he's pointing at the deputies, 610 00:38:00,938 --> 00:38:04,866 and the Twinsburg Township officers, at their jackets. 611 00:38:04,942 --> 00:38:07,327 This was exactly the same, and, in fact, it had 612 00:38:07,329 --> 00:38:10,121 side patches on it, too, identifying it as 613 00:38:10,165 --> 00:38:11,789 a sheriff's jacket. 614 00:38:12,584 --> 00:38:19,297 So that jacket got confiscated, and -- and it really set 615 00:38:19,299 --> 00:38:23,301 the tone of, hmm, there -- you know, there might -- 616 00:38:23,345 --> 00:38:25,261 we might have something here. 617 00:38:31,478 --> 00:38:35,813 ERIC: As technology increases, different testing increases. 618 00:38:35,815 --> 00:38:37,565 Well there was a new type of DNA testing 619 00:38:37,567 --> 00:38:38,858 that was made available, 620 00:38:38,860 --> 00:38:42,570 and the big break finally came in. 621 00:38:42,605 --> 00:38:46,240 Off of the leather belt that was wrapped around her neck, 622 00:38:47,035 --> 00:38:49,660 we got the physical evidence that we finally needed. 623 00:38:50,622 --> 00:38:52,580 STEPHANIE: They had retested the evidence, 624 00:38:52,657 --> 00:38:57,001 and it was a match between the DNA 625 00:38:57,045 --> 00:38:59,003 that was -- that was taken from the belt 626 00:38:59,005 --> 00:39:00,755 and Willard's DNA. 627 00:39:02,634 --> 00:39:06,719 When it come back positive, I was like... 628 00:39:06,796 --> 00:39:07,970 thank you, God. 629 00:39:09,849 --> 00:39:11,766 You know, and you don't want 630 00:39:11,768 --> 00:39:13,935 to arrest somebody that's not guilty. 631 00:39:13,937 --> 00:39:16,813 So Alan Redman and Larry McCarley, 632 00:39:16,815 --> 00:39:19,982 they were dropped as far as the suspect. 633 00:39:20,777 --> 00:39:23,986 We all know in our hearts, we got the bad guy. 634 00:39:24,063 --> 00:39:26,864 It was a high five day, there's no doubt in my mind. 635 00:39:27,659 --> 00:39:29,300 PHYLLIS: Patty Kungle, 636 00:39:29,302 --> 00:39:31,828 she called me that early in the morning when she found out, 637 00:39:31,904 --> 00:39:34,247 and she says, "We got good news." 638 00:39:34,323 --> 00:39:37,625 Says, "You know who the DNA -- 639 00:39:37,627 --> 00:39:39,919 it came back to be Willard's." 640 00:39:39,921 --> 00:39:41,587 I just felt so happy. 641 00:39:41,664 --> 00:39:45,967 I mean, it's just a feeling you can't explain. 642 00:39:45,969 --> 00:39:47,802 I was watching the news, 643 00:39:47,804 --> 00:39:53,391 and I think that they arrested -- arrested Willard. 644 00:39:53,435 --> 00:39:57,270 I am relieved that they had got the guy. 645 00:39:59,691 --> 00:40:01,983 Phyllis called me and said, "Guess what? 646 00:40:02,694 --> 00:40:04,610 We get to go to court." 647 00:40:04,687 --> 00:40:08,948 I said, "What?" She's like, "They arrested Willard." 648 00:40:09,784 --> 00:40:12,952 I said, "You little bastard, you don't get away with it. 649 00:40:13,029 --> 00:40:15,955 You're not gonna get away with it." 650 00:40:15,957 --> 00:40:19,250 Willard McCarley told Charlene Puffenbarger, 651 00:40:19,252 --> 00:40:23,671 over her dead body was he gonna pay child support. 652 00:40:35,268 --> 00:40:38,394 Right now, I'm just totally elated. 653 00:40:38,396 --> 00:40:41,355 He's in jail where he totally belongs. 654 00:40:41,432 --> 00:40:46,068 I'm just totally relieved it's done. I'm done. 655 00:40:47,947 --> 00:40:51,240 KEN: It's been a challenge for everybody, you know? 656 00:40:51,242 --> 00:40:52,992 It's hard enough losing your sister. 657 00:40:53,069 --> 00:40:55,244 It's hard enough losing your daughter. 658 00:40:55,321 --> 00:40:59,373 I mean, it is unexplainable how hard that is to go through 659 00:41:02,295 --> 00:41:05,463 ERIC: Once there was a conviction, once it was done, 660 00:41:06,508 --> 00:41:09,175 can't help to wonder why, why it ever happened. 661 00:41:09,177 --> 00:41:11,219 How senseless. 662 00:41:11,295 --> 00:41:13,471 This was a murder over a couple of dollars of 663 00:41:13,515 --> 00:41:14,680 child support. 664 00:41:14,757 --> 00:41:16,349 Willard had a good job. 665 00:41:16,425 --> 00:41:18,100 He was making good money. 666 00:41:18,811 --> 00:41:21,395 How selfish can one person be, 667 00:41:22,315 --> 00:41:24,357 that A, they're not going to support their child, 668 00:41:24,359 --> 00:41:26,442 and B, they're gonna kill the mother 669 00:41:26,444 --> 00:41:27,860 to avoid that. 670 00:41:29,489 --> 00:41:31,697 MISSY: She was a beautiful mom. 671 00:41:31,699 --> 00:41:34,659 Those babies missed out on so much. 672 00:41:34,702 --> 00:41:37,995 They would be so different today if she was just 673 00:41:37,997 --> 00:41:40,665 in their lives and she wasn't taken away from them. 674 00:41:45,004 --> 00:41:47,672 PHYLLIS: No one should have to go through 675 00:41:47,715 --> 00:41:50,258 losing, you know, their daughter. 676 00:41:51,427 --> 00:41:53,344 A mom, 677 00:41:53,388 --> 00:41:56,806 where she can't be with her boys, and then 678 00:41:56,882 --> 00:41:59,809 to see them, you know, they're always wondering, 679 00:41:59,885 --> 00:42:02,645 well, what -- what's my mom like? 680 00:42:05,567 --> 00:42:07,275 Something they'll never know.