1 00:00:02,488 --> 00:00:05,728 (WHISPERING VOICES OVERLAP) 2 00:00:09,648 --> 00:00:11,888 (CHILD LAUGHS) 3 00:00:11,888 --> 00:00:13,968 (WOMAN LAUGHS) 4 00:00:13,968 --> 00:00:17,728 (WHISPERING VOICES OVERLAP) 5 00:00:25,128 --> 00:00:27,368 MISTRESS SCARLETT: The most ordinary-looking person 6 00:00:27,368 --> 00:00:30,888 can sit here and tell you the most hair-raising story. 7 00:00:31,848 --> 00:00:34,648 STAN GRANT: You think you know who someone is, 8 00:00:34,648 --> 00:00:34,888 STAN GRANT: but do we really know them? 9 00:00:34,888 --> 00:00:36,328 but do we really know them? 10 00:00:37,288 --> 00:00:39,008 TRACEY HOLMES: Probably not. 11 00:00:40,448 --> 00:00:43,368 YUMI STYNES: There's something I want to tell you. 12 00:00:43,368 --> 00:00:43,608 YUMI STYNES: There's something I am powerful. 13 00:00:43,608 --> 00:00:46,688 I am powerful. 14 00:00:46,688 --> 00:00:48,488 MARK SEYMOUR: Silence is not an option. 15 00:00:48,488 --> 00:00:48,728 MARK SEYMOUR: Simple as that. 16 00:00:48,728 --> 00:00:50,288 Simple as that. 17 00:01:23,568 --> 00:01:25,008 OK. 18 00:01:27,568 --> 00:01:29,328 INTERVIEWER: You look right here. 19 00:01:29,328 --> 00:01:31,808 Are you comfortable doing that? Yeah, yeah. 20 00:01:31,808 --> 00:01:33,688 But I'm listening to you, aren't I? Yeah. 21 00:01:39,328 --> 00:01:40,568 OK, cool. 22 00:01:46,568 --> 00:01:49,208 I kept two secrets in this house. 23 00:01:51,248 --> 00:01:53,208 At any given moment, 24 00:01:53,208 --> 00:01:58,288 I felt like I had two closets to emerge from. 25 00:02:03,528 --> 00:02:05,808 The first was... 26 00:02:05,808 --> 00:02:09,768 ..that my mother was someone that people were aware of. 27 00:02:09,768 --> 00:02:13,128 She's a singer, an Australian singer. 28 00:02:13,128 --> 00:02:13,368 She's a singer, And I felt as though 29 00:02:13,368 --> 00:02:15,888 And I felt as though 30 00:02:15,888 --> 00:02:16,128 that was something And I felt as though 31 00:02:16,128 --> 00:02:19,208 that was something that I had to keep from people 32 00:02:19,208 --> 00:02:21,728 so that they wouldn't treat me differently, 33 00:02:21,728 --> 00:02:21,968 so that they wouldn't which happened quite a bit. 34 00:02:21,968 --> 00:02:23,888 which happened quite a bit. 35 00:02:23,888 --> 00:02:26,448 My close friends knew who Mum was. 36 00:02:26,448 --> 00:02:26,688 They'd come over and she'd My close friends knew who Mum was. 37 00:02:26,688 --> 00:02:28,688 They'd come over and she'd be baking a cake in the kitchen, 38 00:02:28,688 --> 00:02:28,928 They'd come over and she'd so it was pretty obvious. (LAUGHS) 39 00:02:28,928 --> 00:02:30,728 so it was pretty obvious. (LAUGHS) 40 00:02:30,728 --> 00:02:32,488 Who IS your mum? 41 00:02:37,608 --> 00:02:41,648 Hello. I'm Julie Anthony and I'm Tamara's mum. 42 00:02:41,648 --> 00:02:41,888 Hello. I'm Julie Anthony Ladies and gentlemen, Julie Anthony. 43 00:02:41,888 --> 00:02:44,128 Ladies and gentlemen, Julie Anthony. 44 00:02:44,128 --> 00:02:45,568 Julie Anthony. 45 00:02:45,568 --> 00:02:50,088 (APPLAUSE) 46 00:02:50,088 --> 00:02:52,128 TAMARA: I can't think of her modern contemporary 47 00:02:52,128 --> 00:02:54,368 because she was so theatrical. 48 00:02:54,368 --> 00:02:55,968 (SINGS) # Second-hand pearls 49 00:02:55,968 --> 00:03:00,048 # I'm wearing second-hand curls... # 50 00:03:00,048 --> 00:03:00,288 # I'm wearing To describe...mm...Julie Anthony? 51 00:03:00,288 --> 00:03:03,488 To describe...mm...Julie Anthony? 52 00:03:03,488 --> 00:03:03,728 I think on stage To describe...mm...Julie Anthony? 53 00:03:03,728 --> 00:03:07,568 I think on stage I'm a bit of a jack-of-all-trades. 54 00:03:07,568 --> 00:03:10,888 BOTH: (SING) # Even the nights are better... # 55 00:03:10,888 --> 00:03:14,208 She did Sound Of Music and all these touring shows 56 00:03:14,208 --> 00:03:14,448 She did Sound Of Music as well as performances 57 00:03:14,448 --> 00:03:16,768 as well as performances 58 00:03:16,768 --> 00:03:20,288 and then, in later life, she did a lot of jazz shows. 59 00:03:20,288 --> 00:03:22,928 (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYS) (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 60 00:03:27,128 --> 00:03:30,208 Mum was really the voice of Australia, 61 00:03:30,208 --> 00:03:30,448 Mum was really because she was the anthem lady. 62 00:03:30,448 --> 00:03:32,408 because she was the anthem lady. 63 00:03:32,408 --> 00:03:34,368 And they'd call her 'Julie Anthemy', 64 00:03:34,368 --> 00:03:38,888 And that just sort of followed her around for her entire life. 65 00:03:38,888 --> 00:03:43,488 # We've golden soil and wealth for toil 66 00:03:43,488 --> 00:03:43,728 # We've golden soil # Our home is girt by sea... # 67 00:03:43,728 --> 00:03:47,768 # Our home is girt by sea... # 68 00:03:47,768 --> 00:03:50,968 It's the profile that the anthem gives you 69 00:03:50,968 --> 00:03:54,328 and that you're in the middle of a stadium as a rule, 70 00:03:54,328 --> 00:03:57,888 and it's at the beginning of some incredibly important match, 71 00:03:57,888 --> 00:03:58,128 and it's at the beginning and so you're a part of that 72 00:03:58,128 --> 00:04:00,368 and so you're a part of that 73 00:04:00,368 --> 00:04:02,568 for that fleeting moment. 74 00:04:02,568 --> 00:04:02,808 My mum sang the national anthem for that fleeting moment. 75 00:04:02,808 --> 00:04:06,528 My mum sang the national anthem at every weekend football game 76 00:04:06,528 --> 00:04:06,768 My mum sang the national anthem as well as the 2000 Olympics. 77 00:04:06,768 --> 00:04:09,088 as well as the 2000 Olympics. 78 00:04:09,088 --> 00:04:12,128 It's afforded some pretty amazing moments, 79 00:04:12,128 --> 00:04:15,288 and I guess the Olympics was the main one. 80 00:04:15,288 --> 00:04:18,568 (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) 81 00:04:18,568 --> 00:04:23,288 Julie Anthony was the person who, in the wings, had to switch gear 82 00:04:23,288 --> 00:04:27,248 and not wonder about what we were going to have for dinner 83 00:04:27,248 --> 00:04:32,688 and did Tamara or Tali get that homework thing done. 84 00:04:32,688 --> 00:04:35,688 I had to go out and be Julie Anthony. 85 00:04:35,688 --> 00:04:40,528 (SINGS) # But only in my mind I've said, "I love you"... # 86 00:04:40,528 --> 00:04:40,768 (SINGS) # But only in my mind I've always had to, as a mother, 87 00:04:40,768 --> 00:04:43,408 I've always had to, as a mother, 88 00:04:43,408 --> 00:04:47,248 try and stay in the background as best you can. 89 00:04:47,248 --> 00:04:47,488 try and stay in the background And it's a bit tricky maybe 90 00:04:47,488 --> 00:04:48,928 And it's a bit tricky maybe 91 00:04:48,928 --> 00:04:50,208 if the principal says, 92 00:04:50,208 --> 00:04:53,608 "Would you mind singing at the opening of the..." whatever. 93 00:04:53,608 --> 00:04:57,768 And I've managed to tap dance around most of those. 94 00:04:57,768 --> 00:04:58,008 And I've managed ALL: (SING) # From Second Avenue. # 95 00:04:58,008 --> 00:05:03,248 ALL: (SING) # From Second Avenue. # 96 00:05:03,248 --> 00:05:03,488 I realised ALL: (SING) # From Second Avenue. # 97 00:05:03,488 --> 00:05:08,568 I realised probably when I was about 11 or 10 98 00:05:08,568 --> 00:05:13,608 that as soon as I would tell people who Mum was, 99 00:05:13,608 --> 00:05:17,688 especially mothers at school or at a friend's house, 100 00:05:17,688 --> 00:05:19,648 they would immediately treat me differently. 101 00:05:19,648 --> 00:05:19,888 they would immediately I registered that it was a tool 102 00:05:19,888 --> 00:05:22,688 I registered that it was a tool 103 00:05:22,688 --> 00:05:25,208 that I could use if I wanted to 104 00:05:25,208 --> 00:05:28,408 in order to make a situation go more positively for me. 105 00:05:28,408 --> 00:05:31,968 That was a really bad lesson for me to learn at that time, 106 00:05:31,968 --> 00:05:37,288 because I was then taught that being not myself was a positive thing. 107 00:05:38,448 --> 00:05:41,528 INTERVIEWER: And your second secret? 108 00:05:41,528 --> 00:05:43,928 My second secret. 109 00:05:46,408 --> 00:05:51,168 I decided to be honest 110 00:05:51,168 --> 00:05:53,448 and come out of both of those closets 111 00:05:53,448 --> 00:05:55,888 at a really similar time. 112 00:05:55,888 --> 00:05:57,888 I was probably about 20. 113 00:05:59,248 --> 00:06:03,528 And...I remember walking over a bridge with Mum. 114 00:06:03,528 --> 00:06:05,808 I just decided in that moment that I was going to tell her, 115 00:06:05,808 --> 00:06:11,808 so I said, "Mum, I'm in love with someone, and she's a woman." 116 00:06:11,808 --> 00:06:12,048 so I said, "Mum, I'm in love (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY) 117 00:06:12,048 --> 00:06:14,648 (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY) 118 00:06:14,648 --> 00:06:14,888 I kind of looked at her (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY) 119 00:06:14,888 --> 00:06:18,048 I kind of looked at her and thought, "Well, yes!" 120 00:06:18,048 --> 00:06:21,208 So, I realised that, in that moment, that she needed to say it, 121 00:06:21,208 --> 00:06:26,008 and I said, "Yeah, yeah. Great. Yeah. I know. That's good, Moo." 122 00:06:26,008 --> 00:06:29,608 Um... "Oh, shall we go and have a cup of tea?" 123 00:06:29,608 --> 00:06:30,768 (BOTH CHATTER AND LAUGH) 124 00:06:30,768 --> 00:06:35,528 I'm not sure if she really clocked that I was struggling with who I was. 125 00:06:35,528 --> 00:06:39,448 So, I don't know, I think you'll have to ask her. (CHUCKLES) 126 00:06:40,408 --> 00:06:41,688 (SIGHS) 127 00:06:41,688 --> 00:06:43,048 (CHUCKLES) Apart from the fact 128 00:06:43,048 --> 00:06:46,688 that she only ever wore shorts and a T-shirt and a hat on backwards... 129 00:06:46,688 --> 00:06:46,928 that she only ever wore shorts and (LAUGHS) 130 00:06:46,928 --> 00:06:48,288 (LAUGHS) 131 00:06:48,288 --> 00:06:51,728 Mothers watch their children, don't they? That's what we do. 132 00:06:51,728 --> 00:06:53,648 And I thought, uh... 133 00:06:53,648 --> 00:06:55,328 .."Maybe. Could be." 134 00:06:55,328 --> 00:07:00,048 Maybe a part of you is already there before they are, in a sense. 135 00:07:00,048 --> 00:07:03,768 It wasn't an issue. It was just a fact. 136 00:07:03,768 --> 00:07:06,088 And I think there might have been a bit of relief there - 137 00:07:06,088 --> 00:07:07,888 "Oh, God, I don't have to deal with a son-in-law." 138 00:07:07,888 --> 00:07:08,128 "Oh, God, I don't (LAUGHS) 139 00:07:08,128 --> 00:07:09,848 (LAUGHS) 140 00:07:09,848 --> 00:07:12,888 I had primed myself for years 141 00:07:12,888 --> 00:07:17,728 that this moment was going to be horrific or hard or... 142 00:07:17,728 --> 00:07:19,128 Like, so much leading up to it. 143 00:07:19,128 --> 00:07:21,288 Quite disappointing that there was no fireworks, actually... 144 00:07:21,288 --> 00:07:21,528 Quite disappointing that (CHUCKLES) ..because I was ready. 145 00:07:21,528 --> 00:07:23,008 (CHUCKLES) ..because I was ready. 146 00:07:23,008 --> 00:07:25,088 But she was just... 147 00:07:25,088 --> 00:07:26,728 ..just Mum about it, 148 00:07:26,728 --> 00:07:26,968 which was the best thing ..just Mum about it, 149 00:07:26,968 --> 00:07:28,768 which was the best thing she could have done. 150 00:07:31,568 --> 00:07:36,488 So, fast-forward seven years and same-sex marriage is now legal. 151 00:07:36,488 --> 00:07:36,728 So, fast-forward seven years Hooray! 152 00:07:36,728 --> 00:07:37,488 Hooray! 153 00:07:37,488 --> 00:07:37,728 And I'm getting married to Eliza, Hooray! 154 00:07:37,728 --> 00:07:40,648 And I'm getting married to Eliza, the love of my life, 155 00:07:40,648 --> 00:07:40,888 And I'm getting married to Eliza, alongside my sister and her husband 156 00:07:40,888 --> 00:07:43,448 alongside my sister and her husband 157 00:07:43,448 --> 00:07:45,088 in a double wedding. 158 00:07:45,088 --> 00:07:49,488 And it was just so wonderful to have so many people in the room 159 00:07:49,488 --> 00:07:54,648 celebrating us, and how far we had come to being who we were, 160 00:07:54,648 --> 00:07:58,728 and then having my sister and her husband supporting us, 161 00:07:58,728 --> 00:08:02,248 by standing up there with us and being like, "This is equal love." 162 00:08:02,248 --> 00:08:02,488 by standing up there with us And that was enormous. 163 00:08:02,488 --> 00:08:04,408 And that was enormous. 164 00:08:04,408 --> 00:08:04,648 And my mum sang the national anthem, And that was enormous. 165 00:08:04,648 --> 00:08:09,488 And my mum sang the national anthem, by popular demand. 166 00:08:09,488 --> 00:08:12,568 So, she sang one verse of it, bless her - 167 00:08:12,568 --> 00:08:12,808 So, she sang one verse of it, she really didn't want to. 168 00:08:12,808 --> 00:08:14,128 she really didn't want to. 169 00:08:14,128 --> 00:08:17,808 I would like to think that, sooner rather than later, 170 00:08:17,808 --> 00:08:22,368 we honour the first peoples of this country 171 00:08:22,368 --> 00:08:24,808 and have the appropriate anthem for that. 172 00:08:24,808 --> 00:08:27,408 I would stand up and lead the charge. 173 00:08:27,408 --> 00:08:29,608 We just need to find out what that is. 174 00:08:29,608 --> 00:08:32,128 But I would like it to be pretty soon. 175 00:08:35,768 --> 00:08:36,808 (HUMS) 176 00:08:36,808 --> 00:08:38,848 Would you like your eggs scrambled or poached? 177 00:08:38,848 --> 00:08:41,008 Uh, scrambled, please. OK! 178 00:08:41,008 --> 00:08:44,048 So, Eliza and I moved back to this house, 179 00:08:44,048 --> 00:08:45,888 which is my childhood home, 180 00:08:45,888 --> 00:08:48,128 about a year and a half ago now, 181 00:08:48,128 --> 00:08:50,808 and we really needed to make it our own. 182 00:08:54,288 --> 00:08:57,808 (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 183 00:08:57,808 --> 00:09:01,768 This house used to be...secrets for me. 184 00:09:01,768 --> 00:09:02,008 This house used to be...secrets And now I'm living my truth, 185 00:09:02,008 --> 00:09:04,608 And now I'm living my truth, 186 00:09:04,608 --> 00:09:07,888 and that's really lovely. 187 00:09:07,888 --> 00:09:11,688 Because I am being me, for once. (CHUCKLES) 188 00:09:11,688 --> 00:09:13,728 (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY) 189 00:09:18,928 --> 00:09:21,968 (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) 190 00:09:34,328 --> 00:09:36,568 YUMI STYNES: Running is a bit of a mind game. 191 00:09:36,568 --> 00:09:39,968 It is horrible. It sucks. (LAUGHS) 192 00:09:39,968 --> 00:09:41,488 It hurts. 193 00:09:41,488 --> 00:09:44,168 And it almost never gets better. 194 00:09:44,168 --> 00:09:45,568 But... 195 00:09:45,568 --> 00:09:50,288 ..you finish your run and suddenly you just feel amazing. 196 00:09:52,088 --> 00:09:58,768 You feel invincible. You feel like you are Superwoman. 197 00:09:58,768 --> 00:10:01,008 There's something I want to tell you. 198 00:10:01,008 --> 00:10:02,768 I'm a mother of four, 199 00:10:02,768 --> 00:10:04,448 I work three or four jobs 200 00:10:04,448 --> 00:10:07,808 and I feel very powerful. 201 00:10:07,808 --> 00:10:08,008 and I feel very powerful. And I am not saying sorry for it. 202 00:10:08,008 --> 00:10:10,328 And I am not saying sorry for it. 203 00:10:14,888 --> 00:10:18,208 It's a scary thing to admit that you feel powerful 204 00:10:18,208 --> 00:10:23,408 because it feels like you're inviting people to take it away from you. 205 00:10:23,408 --> 00:10:26,568 And for a woman I think it's particularly scary. 206 00:10:27,528 --> 00:10:30,408 I've kind of realised through these fears of my work 207 00:10:30,408 --> 00:10:30,648 I've kind of realised that I don't have to be liked by men. 208 00:10:30,648 --> 00:10:33,688 that I don't have to be liked by men. 209 00:10:33,688 --> 00:10:37,328 And I'm really quite happy with that. 210 00:10:37,328 --> 00:10:39,488 I think if you reach a point in your life 211 00:10:39,488 --> 00:10:44,368 where you realise that no-one in any situation is liked by everyone, 212 00:10:44,368 --> 00:10:47,928 then you can accept that people just won't like you. 213 00:10:47,928 --> 00:10:48,168 then you can accept And that's kind of freeing. 214 00:10:48,168 --> 00:10:50,048 And that's kind of freeing. 215 00:10:50,048 --> 00:10:54,288 I mean, I am actually, by skill and trade a television presenter. 216 00:10:54,288 --> 00:10:58,568 And you'll see I'm not really on television so much at the moment. 217 00:10:59,368 --> 00:11:02,248 The last time I said, "I feel powerful," 218 00:11:02,248 --> 00:11:06,288 I was on the front page of the Green Guide in Melbourne. 219 00:11:06,288 --> 00:11:09,448 And I even remember the pose that I struck. 220 00:11:09,448 --> 00:11:11,128 And that was the shot that they used - 221 00:11:11,128 --> 00:11:15,368 me feeling powerful, me feeling formidable. 222 00:11:15,368 --> 00:11:15,608 me feeling powerful, It was probably 11 or 12 years ago. 223 00:11:15,608 --> 00:11:18,128 It was probably 11 or 12 years ago. 224 00:11:18,128 --> 00:11:22,208 And within three weeks, I reckon, of that cover coming out, 225 00:11:22,208 --> 00:11:24,928 it all fell apart. 226 00:11:24,928 --> 00:11:28,288 So, I have these jobs where I have to talk - 227 00:11:28,288 --> 00:11:33,368 radio show, TV shows, writing a column, lots and lots of words, 228 00:11:33,368 --> 00:11:38,528 and among those literally thousands of words that I said every week 229 00:11:38,528 --> 00:11:42,088 I said something about an army guy, 230 00:11:42,088 --> 00:11:44,768 and I didn't realise that slagging off an army guy 231 00:11:44,768 --> 00:11:49,328 is like slagging off Jesus Christ or the Anzacs. 232 00:11:49,328 --> 00:11:52,888 Like, you just... In this country, it is a no-go zone. 233 00:11:52,888 --> 00:11:56,568 The thing is I didn't even slag him off, I just said, "He's not my type," 234 00:11:56,568 --> 00:11:58,848 because I don't really go for those men. 235 00:11:58,848 --> 00:11:59,088 because I don't really go And... 236 00:11:59,088 --> 00:12:00,128 And... 237 00:12:01,088 --> 00:12:04,288 ..within minutes of saying that on live TV, 238 00:12:04,288 --> 00:12:07,728 people started to call up the TV channel and complain, 239 00:12:07,728 --> 00:12:12,688 and then they started to call up radio talkback guys to dob me in. 240 00:12:12,688 --> 00:12:12,928 and then they started to call up So, the shock jocks got in 241 00:12:12,928 --> 00:12:14,608 So, the shock jocks got in 242 00:12:14,608 --> 00:12:17,768 and started to stir up their listeners against me. 243 00:12:17,768 --> 00:12:20,848 Their listeners had never heard of me, they'd never watched my show, 244 00:12:20,848 --> 00:12:23,648 but they were angry and motivated enough 245 00:12:23,648 --> 00:12:27,448 to ring up my station and complain, write letters 246 00:12:27,448 --> 00:12:32,208 and turn it into a huge, huge shitstorm. 247 00:12:32,208 --> 00:12:36,488 Months of people ringing the TV channel that I worked for, 248 00:12:36,488 --> 00:12:38,168 emailing my bosses, 249 00:12:38,168 --> 00:12:42,128 going on the Facebook page to threaten to kill me and hurt me, 250 00:12:42,128 --> 00:12:42,368 going on the Facebook page sexually assault me, 251 00:12:42,368 --> 00:12:43,648 sexually assault me, 252 00:12:43,648 --> 00:12:45,128 violently rape me. 253 00:12:45,128 --> 00:12:45,368 And it just did not stop. violently rape me. 254 00:12:45,368 --> 00:12:47,808 And it just did not stop. It was so unrelenting. 255 00:12:47,808 --> 00:12:48,048 And it just did not stop. My TV show did get axed, 256 00:12:48,048 --> 00:12:50,408 My TV show did get axed, 257 00:12:50,408 --> 00:12:53,568 I didn't get renewed for my radio contract, 258 00:12:53,568 --> 00:12:53,808 I didn't get renewed and my job at Foxtel evaporated. 259 00:12:53,808 --> 00:12:57,288 and my job at Foxtel evaporated. 260 00:12:59,448 --> 00:13:03,368 So, I went from being on the cover of the paper 261 00:13:03,368 --> 00:13:03,608 So, I went from to having literally no work. 262 00:13:03,608 --> 00:13:07,528 to having literally no work. 263 00:13:08,928 --> 00:13:11,568 It was really hard to deal with. 264 00:13:11,568 --> 00:13:14,608 There were times during that phase 265 00:13:14,608 --> 00:13:18,408 where I actually thought I would be better off to die. 266 00:13:18,408 --> 00:13:18,648 where I actually thought I had nothing to contribute. 267 00:13:18,648 --> 00:13:20,888 I had nothing to contribute. 268 00:13:21,928 --> 00:13:25,768 Months and months of feeling... 269 00:13:25,768 --> 00:13:28,128 ..in your head, "Why?" 270 00:13:28,128 --> 00:13:30,528 Like, "Why did this happen?" 271 00:13:30,528 --> 00:13:33,688 "Why am I completely unemployed?" 272 00:13:34,848 --> 00:13:37,048 I was literally silenced. 273 00:13:38,768 --> 00:13:41,128 So, in that time, I, um... 274 00:13:41,128 --> 00:13:43,208 ..I drank a lot. 275 00:13:44,888 --> 00:13:46,528 And... 276 00:13:47,648 --> 00:13:50,608 ..I felt awful. 277 00:13:50,608 --> 00:13:53,088 I've quit drinking a couple of times before, 278 00:13:53,088 --> 00:13:56,048 and, for the first time, the thing I did differently this time 279 00:13:56,048 --> 00:13:56,288 and, for the first time, was I told people. 280 00:13:56,288 --> 00:13:58,528 was I told people. 281 00:13:58,528 --> 00:14:00,208 And it was, um... 282 00:14:01,248 --> 00:14:02,768 ..confronting. 283 00:14:04,408 --> 00:14:06,808 But it was also like, "Alright, if I tell people, 284 00:14:06,808 --> 00:14:07,048 But it was also like, "and I tell people publicly, 285 00:14:07,048 --> 00:14:09,288 "and I tell people publicly, 286 00:14:09,288 --> 00:14:13,088 "then if anyone sees me ordering wine or at the bottle shop... 287 00:14:14,048 --> 00:14:17,408 "..they're going to know that I have fucked it up. 288 00:14:17,408 --> 00:14:17,648 "..they're going to know "And I don't want that. 289 00:14:17,648 --> 00:14:19,408 "And I don't want that. 290 00:14:19,408 --> 00:14:22,128 "And I want my kids to be proud of me." 291 00:14:29,168 --> 00:14:31,128 ANOUK ELY: # When I grow up 292 00:14:31,128 --> 00:14:33,568 # I wanna sail the ships 293 00:14:33,568 --> 00:14:36,888 # On a million diamonds... # 294 00:14:36,888 --> 00:14:41,168 I always say that my daughter Anouk saved my life. 295 00:14:41,168 --> 00:14:43,688 I got pregnant when I was 25, 296 00:14:43,688 --> 00:14:46,288 and I was pretty wild, 297 00:14:46,288 --> 00:14:50,128 and getting pregnant just immediately brought me - poosh! - 298 00:14:50,128 --> 00:14:50,368 and getting pregnant just right back down to earth. 299 00:14:50,368 --> 00:14:52,608 right back down to earth. 300 00:14:52,608 --> 00:14:55,128 Anouk looks like my mum, Yoshiko. 301 00:14:55,128 --> 00:14:59,048 She's the most Asian-looking of my children. 302 00:14:59,048 --> 00:14:59,288 She's the most Asian-looking (CHUCKLES) The others look white. 303 00:14:59,288 --> 00:15:01,088 (CHUCKLES) The others look white. 304 00:15:06,288 --> 00:15:08,968 Even when Dee Dee was in my womb, 305 00:15:08,968 --> 00:15:11,528 she was herself. 306 00:15:11,528 --> 00:15:14,568 She is 17 now. 307 00:15:14,568 --> 00:15:16,328 Yeah, I thought you'd like this one. 308 00:15:16,328 --> 00:15:18,408 Well, I told you how much I love tomatoes at the moment. 309 00:15:18,408 --> 00:15:19,248 Yeah. 310 00:15:19,248 --> 00:15:25,368 I wish I was as smart and savvy when I was her age as Dee Dee is now. 311 00:15:25,368 --> 00:15:28,088 She's kind of got a lot of stuff figured out. 312 00:15:31,648 --> 00:15:35,608 Mercy, I hope, embodies what the future for young women will be. 313 00:15:35,608 --> 00:15:41,248 She's sassy and fearless and smart and bright and extremely funny. 314 00:15:41,248 --> 00:15:41,488 She's sassy and fearless and smart Good kick, sweetie. 315 00:15:41,488 --> 00:15:42,328 Good kick, sweetie. 316 00:15:42,328 --> 00:15:44,488 I just hope she doesn't get it knocked out of her 317 00:15:44,488 --> 00:15:47,328 the way it does to a lot of other young women. 318 00:15:48,688 --> 00:15:51,208 Five years ago, I had my first son. 319 00:15:51,208 --> 00:15:55,288 He's just a little slice of heaven 320 00:15:55,288 --> 00:15:57,528 and I can't get enough of him 321 00:15:57,528 --> 00:15:57,768 and I love the way that he's and I can't get enough of him 322 00:15:57,768 --> 00:16:02,568 and I love the way that he's so influenced by his older sisters, 323 00:16:02,568 --> 00:16:05,088 and me, of course, and his beautiful dad. 324 00:16:05,088 --> 00:16:08,088 And he's just a unique character. 325 00:16:13,208 --> 00:16:16,488 It was such a turning point to quit alcohol. 326 00:16:16,488 --> 00:16:19,648 I can't tell you, like, the difference it's made. 327 00:16:19,648 --> 00:16:23,168 My productivity has gone through the roof since quitting drinking, 328 00:16:23,168 --> 00:16:23,408 My productivity has gone through my self-esteem and... (CHUCKLES) 329 00:16:23,408 --> 00:16:26,088 my self-esteem and... (CHUCKLES) 330 00:16:27,128 --> 00:16:28,608 ..my power. 331 00:16:28,608 --> 00:16:31,848 I started writing books, and they were good. 332 00:16:31,848 --> 00:16:35,288 And it was like, "Actually, I'm not completely useless." 333 00:16:35,288 --> 00:16:35,528 And it was like, "Actually, And it's a bit like running. 334 00:16:35,528 --> 00:16:37,168 And it's a bit like running. 335 00:16:37,168 --> 00:16:37,408 You don't have to be fast. And it's a bit like running. 336 00:16:37,408 --> 00:16:40,088 You don't have to be fast. You don't have to be the best. 337 00:16:40,088 --> 00:16:42,208 You just have to put your shoes on and do it, 338 00:16:42,208 --> 00:16:45,048 and you're a runner, and that's enough. 339 00:16:46,968 --> 00:16:50,688 A couple of years ago, I was offered my job back at KIIS FM. 340 00:16:50,688 --> 00:16:54,128 And the podcast that I do, Ladies, We Need To Talk, 341 00:16:54,128 --> 00:16:54,368 And the podcast that I do, has won awards. 342 00:16:54,368 --> 00:16:55,928 has won awards. 343 00:16:55,928 --> 00:17:00,448 I've got all this work that is really, really meaningful to me, 344 00:17:00,448 --> 00:17:00,688 I've got all this work that is that I'm proud of. 345 00:17:00,688 --> 00:17:02,728 that I'm proud of. 346 00:17:02,728 --> 00:17:02,968 And part of it is, I'm compensating that I'm proud of. 347 00:17:02,968 --> 00:17:07,808 And part of it is, I'm compensating for the time I lost from drinking. 348 00:17:09,088 --> 00:17:13,848 Because I could have done so much in those years and I didn't. 349 00:17:13,848 --> 00:17:18,208 And so I'm, like, sprinting to try to catch up. 350 00:17:20,968 --> 00:17:24,688 (INSTRUMENTS TUNING) 351 00:17:24,688 --> 00:17:25,888 Is that better? 352 00:17:25,888 --> 00:17:28,288 This is my volume right now. 353 00:17:28,288 --> 00:17:33,128 My daughter Anouk plays in a rock band called the Nervous Wrex 354 00:17:33,128 --> 00:17:37,128 with one of the kids she's known since she was in nappies. 355 00:17:37,128 --> 00:17:37,368 with one of the kids she's known She's extremely kind. 356 00:17:37,368 --> 00:17:39,728 She's extremely kind. 357 00:17:39,728 --> 00:17:42,448 She's always had so much empathy. 358 00:17:42,448 --> 00:17:45,928 (SINGS) # Cry in the dark 'cause I'm alive in here 359 00:17:45,928 --> 00:17:49,768 # I wanna run, wanna run till I get to the sun 360 00:17:49,768 --> 00:17:53,408 # Then cry in the dark 'cause I'm alive in here 361 00:17:53,408 --> 00:17:58,168 # I wanna run, wanna run till I get to the sun 362 00:17:58,168 --> 00:18:01,848 # Then cry in the dark 'cause I'm alive in here... # 363 00:18:01,848 --> 00:18:04,728 Last time I said that I felt powerful, 364 00:18:04,728 --> 00:18:07,168 my life honestly did come crashing down. 365 00:18:07,168 --> 00:18:07,408 my life honestly Saying it this time, 366 00:18:07,408 --> 00:18:09,168 Saying it this time, 367 00:18:09,168 --> 00:18:12,608 it feels like I'm putting myself out on a limb, but not really. 368 00:18:12,608 --> 00:18:15,128 I'm not afraid of social media shitstorms. 369 00:18:15,128 --> 00:18:18,008 I can deal with them. Been there, done that. 370 00:18:18,008 --> 00:18:18,248 I can deal with them. # I wanna run... # 371 00:18:18,248 --> 00:18:19,608 # I wanna run... # 372 00:18:19,608 --> 00:18:23,568 The next generation of women, I think, won't be silenced. 373 00:18:23,568 --> 00:18:28,088 They're going to politically agitate, motivate, mobilise 374 00:18:28,088 --> 00:18:30,888 and they're going to be fierce and loud. 375 00:18:30,888 --> 00:18:34,848 Women are allowed to admit that they're powerful, 376 00:18:34,848 --> 00:18:39,528 and we're even more powerful when we stick together. 377 00:19:01,368 --> 00:19:02,968 So, do you want me just to start talking? 378 00:19:02,968 --> 00:19:04,088 INTERVIEWER: No. Oh. 379 00:19:04,088 --> 00:19:04,328 INTERVIEWER: No. (LAUGHS) 380 00:19:04,328 --> 00:19:06,848 (LAUGHS) 381 00:19:06,848 --> 00:19:09,248 Yes. Tracey has a secret. 382 00:19:09,248 --> 00:19:11,888 It's probably not what you're thinking right now. 383 00:19:11,888 --> 00:19:14,288 In fact, I bet you a million dollars 384 00:19:14,288 --> 00:19:16,568 it's not what you're thinking right now. 385 00:19:16,568 --> 00:19:16,808 it's not You think you know who someone is. 386 00:19:16,808 --> 00:19:19,208 You think you know who someone is. 387 00:19:19,208 --> 00:19:22,008 You think you've got an idea of someone. 388 00:19:22,008 --> 00:19:24,248 You think you can put someone in a box. 389 00:19:24,248 --> 00:19:26,888 But do we really know them? 390 00:19:26,888 --> 00:19:28,728 Probably not. 391 00:19:30,928 --> 00:19:34,168 When Stan and I first started spending time together, 392 00:19:34,168 --> 00:19:35,608 which was through work, 393 00:19:35,608 --> 00:19:39,848 I was surprised by some of the reaction. 394 00:19:39,848 --> 00:19:40,088 I was surprised Tracey, in particular, you know, 395 00:19:40,088 --> 00:19:41,928 Tracey, in particular, you know, 396 00:19:41,928 --> 00:19:46,448 had to deal with things that people wouldn't say to me, to my face, 397 00:19:46,448 --> 00:19:48,368 but would say to her behind my back. 398 00:19:48,368 --> 00:19:52,608 I was told at work, "Look, um...we all like Stan, 399 00:19:52,608 --> 00:19:52,848 I was told at work, "Stan's a nice guy, 400 00:19:52,848 --> 00:19:54,528 "Stan's a nice guy, 401 00:19:54,528 --> 00:19:58,688 "but you can't live with him because they're not like us." 402 00:19:58,688 --> 00:19:58,928 "but you can't live with him Yeah, "THEY'RE not like us." 403 00:19:58,928 --> 00:20:00,328 Yeah, "THEY'RE not like us." 404 00:20:00,328 --> 00:20:00,568 And I actually didn't know Yeah, "THEY'RE not like us." 405 00:20:00,568 --> 00:20:03,448 And I actually didn't know what they were talking about. 406 00:20:03,448 --> 00:20:03,688 And I actually didn't know I said, "Who's they?" 407 00:20:03,688 --> 00:20:05,128 I said, "Who's they?" 408 00:20:05,128 --> 00:20:07,888 And then, you know, very early on 409 00:20:07,888 --> 00:20:10,248 when I was meeting some of Stan's relatives 410 00:20:10,248 --> 00:20:13,168 and we'd go to the shop and one day we went down to the bread shop 411 00:20:13,168 --> 00:20:13,408 and we'd go to the shop and one day and I was with two of his nieces 412 00:20:13,408 --> 00:20:14,968 and I was with two of his nieces 413 00:20:14,968 --> 00:20:18,408 and I ordered some bread rolls and a loaf of bread and... 414 00:20:18,408 --> 00:20:18,648 and I ordered some bread rolls They put it on the counter 415 00:20:18,648 --> 00:20:19,968 They put it on the counter 416 00:20:19,968 --> 00:20:23,408 and Stan's nieces picked them up off the counter, 417 00:20:23,408 --> 00:20:25,248 and the woman behind the counter said, 418 00:20:25,248 --> 00:20:25,488 and the woman behind the counter "Put those down! They're not yours!" 419 00:20:25,488 --> 00:20:27,208 "Put those down! They're not yours!" 420 00:20:27,208 --> 00:20:29,688 Yeah, speaking to them in a way they would never speak to anybody else. 421 00:20:29,688 --> 00:20:32,368 I would never have heard this woman speak like that ever, 422 00:20:32,368 --> 00:20:34,288 and I'd been there hundreds of times. 423 00:20:34,288 --> 00:20:34,528 and I'd been there And I said, "But they're with me." 424 00:20:34,528 --> 00:20:36,568 And I said, "But they're with me." 425 00:20:36,568 --> 00:20:38,728 And she was like, "Oh. Oh. Sorry." 426 00:20:38,728 --> 00:20:41,968 It's not knowing who Aboriginal people are. That's the first thing. 427 00:20:41,968 --> 00:20:42,208 It's not knowing who Aboriginal I mean, you know, most Australians 428 00:20:42,208 --> 00:20:43,728 I mean, you know, most Australians 429 00:20:43,728 --> 00:20:43,968 still don't have any contact I mean, you know, most Australians 430 00:20:43,968 --> 00:20:45,768 still don't have any contact with Aboriginal people. 431 00:20:45,768 --> 00:20:46,008 still don't have any contact That's the truth. 432 00:20:46,008 --> 00:20:46,968 That's the truth. 433 00:20:46,968 --> 00:20:49,208 So, ironically, you know, when Tracey came into my world, 434 00:20:49,208 --> 00:20:52,888 into a relationship with me, into an Aboriginal family, 435 00:20:52,888 --> 00:20:55,128 she became part of an Aboriginal culture. 436 00:20:55,128 --> 00:20:56,528 And there is no difference 437 00:20:56,528 --> 00:20:59,248 between, you know, our son, Tracey and my son, 438 00:20:59,248 --> 00:21:00,968 and my children from my first marriage. 439 00:21:00,968 --> 00:21:01,208 and my children They are just brothers and sisters. 440 00:21:01,208 --> 00:21:03,728 They are just brothers and sisters. 441 00:21:03,728 --> 00:21:07,168 I know there were some people that... 442 00:21:07,168 --> 00:21:10,048 ..might have thought in the back of their mind, 443 00:21:10,048 --> 00:21:12,568 "What's he doing with this white woman?" 444 00:21:12,568 --> 00:21:17,808 But I have never, ever experienced anything 445 00:21:17,808 --> 00:21:22,648 other than being made to feel very welcome and very included. 446 00:21:22,648 --> 00:21:27,688 I've never felt as though I'm an outsider. 447 00:21:27,688 --> 00:21:27,928 I've never felt Not ever. 448 00:21:27,928 --> 00:21:29,088 Not ever. 449 00:21:29,088 --> 00:21:31,248 And, unfortunately, 450 00:21:31,248 --> 00:21:35,888 I can't say the same for the experience that he has had. 451 00:21:37,928 --> 00:21:44,008 After Tracey and I got together and we left Channel 7, uh... 452 00:21:44,008 --> 00:21:49,208 ..we had about a year or so, we had a child, we bought a home, 453 00:21:49,208 --> 00:21:49,448 ..we had about a year or so, and then I got offered a job, 454 00:21:49,448 --> 00:21:51,008 and then I got offered a job, 455 00:21:51,008 --> 00:21:51,248 just as it happens, and then I got offered a job, 456 00:21:51,248 --> 00:21:55,128 just as it happens, completely out of the blue, 457 00:21:55,128 --> 00:21:58,728 to go and work for CNN, which was always a bit of a dream of mine, 458 00:21:58,728 --> 00:22:02,448 I think, you know, to be able to work for a massive news organisation 459 00:22:02,448 --> 00:22:02,688 I think, you know, to be able to that covered global events. 460 00:22:02,688 --> 00:22:04,168 that covered global events. 461 00:22:05,728 --> 00:22:08,568 Packed our bags... (CHUCKLES) ..the following Friday, 462 00:22:08,568 --> 00:22:12,088 we left for Hong Kong, didn't we? Yeah. 463 00:22:13,608 --> 00:22:18,808 We left Australia early 2001, 464 00:22:18,808 --> 00:22:22,568 so it was around 14 years that we were gone. 465 00:22:23,928 --> 00:22:26,688 I used to say to Stan every time we hopped off the plane 466 00:22:26,688 --> 00:22:29,488 when we went back home to Beijing where we were living, 467 00:22:29,488 --> 00:22:30,968 I said, "It's kind of weird..." 468 00:22:30,968 --> 00:22:33,848 You know, that smell? It's like... It's pollution 469 00:22:33,848 --> 00:22:36,648 and it smells like fires and it smells like concrete. 470 00:22:36,648 --> 00:22:39,768 You wouldn't describe it as a pleasant smell. 471 00:22:39,768 --> 00:22:41,288 But I said, "That smell, there's something about it. 472 00:22:41,288 --> 00:22:45,088 "I feel like I'm at home every time I come back here." 473 00:22:54,768 --> 00:22:56,248 Hi! Hey! 474 00:22:56,248 --> 00:22:58,208 (WOMAN SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) Hi. Good, thanks. 475 00:22:58,208 --> 00:22:59,808 How you been? How's it going, brother? You good? 476 00:22:59,808 --> 00:23:00,048 How you been? How's it going, So, we lived in Asia all these years, 477 00:23:00,048 --> 00:23:02,088 So, we lived in Asia all these years, 478 00:23:02,088 --> 00:23:04,488 and, essentially, we came back 479 00:23:04,488 --> 00:23:07,848 after living in Hong Kong, Beijing, 480 00:23:07,848 --> 00:23:08,088 the Middle East after living in Hong Kong, Beijing, 481 00:23:08,088 --> 00:23:10,808 the Middle East in Abu Dhabi and Dubai. 482 00:23:10,808 --> 00:23:11,048 the Middle East And then, three years ago, 483 00:23:11,048 --> 00:23:12,248 And then, three years ago, 484 00:23:12,248 --> 00:23:15,888 I get this email from my cousin, my second cousin, 485 00:23:15,888 --> 00:23:19,008 saying, "I've got something I want you to know." 486 00:23:19,008 --> 00:23:22,968 Next minute I get email and then another email and another email. 487 00:23:22,968 --> 00:23:25,768 And here's all this big, long family history 488 00:23:25,768 --> 00:23:30,328 and supporting documents and war records and all sorts of things. 489 00:23:30,328 --> 00:23:31,728 And she said, you know, 490 00:23:31,728 --> 00:23:33,848 "Our great..." - 491 00:23:33,848 --> 00:23:34,088 her great-grandfather, "Our great..." - 492 00:23:34,088 --> 00:23:37,128 her great-grandfather, my great-great-grandfather - 493 00:23:37,128 --> 00:23:41,968 "was Chinese, from Amoy in Fujian Province in China." 494 00:23:41,968 --> 00:23:42,208 "was Chinese, from Amoy I said, "Stan, guess what. 495 00:23:42,208 --> 00:23:44,008 I said, "Stan, guess what. 496 00:23:44,008 --> 00:23:47,968 "My grandmother's grandfather is Chinese." 497 00:23:47,968 --> 00:23:49,808 And he went, "What?!" 498 00:23:49,808 --> 00:23:51,808 (LAUGHS) 499 00:23:51,808 --> 00:23:53,288 It's really funny, isn't it? 500 00:23:53,288 --> 00:23:55,648 You know, you think, "Oh, this is Tracey Holmes," 501 00:23:55,648 --> 00:23:58,688 and being who she is and being fairly well-known in the media 502 00:23:58,688 --> 00:24:00,808 and having the profile that she does. 503 00:24:00,808 --> 00:24:03,568 People say that, you know, "You're Tracey Holmes." 504 00:24:03,568 --> 00:24:06,328 Yeah, so my name really shouldn't be Tracey Holmes. 505 00:24:06,328 --> 00:24:10,248 Holmes is a name that I have no genetic connection to. 506 00:24:10,248 --> 00:24:13,088 My name should actually be Tracey Lin. 507 00:24:14,048 --> 00:24:15,448 I mean, I wasn't shocked. 508 00:24:15,448 --> 00:24:20,288 Our son, Jesse, he looks Chinese - he's got very Asian eyes. 509 00:24:20,288 --> 00:24:22,528 What was interesting, especially with Jesse, 510 00:24:22,528 --> 00:24:24,768 was that, if he was with Stan, 511 00:24:24,768 --> 00:24:27,968 they would say to Stan, "Oh, your wife's Chinese, 512 00:24:27,968 --> 00:24:28,208 they would say to Stan, "because I'm looking at your son." 513 00:24:28,208 --> 00:24:29,928 "because I'm looking at your son." 514 00:24:29,928 --> 00:24:32,368 And Stan would say, "No." 515 00:24:32,368 --> 00:24:34,288 And then Jesse would be with me 516 00:24:34,288 --> 00:24:37,448 and they'd look at Jesse and they'd say, "Oh, your husband's Chinese." 517 00:24:37,448 --> 00:24:37,688 and they'd look at Jesse and they'd And I'd..."No." (LAUGHS) 518 00:24:37,688 --> 00:24:39,968 And I'd..."No." (LAUGHS) 519 00:24:41,648 --> 00:24:47,208 When Tracey discovered that ancestry, that connection to China, 520 00:24:47,208 --> 00:24:47,448 When Tracey discovered that it made perfect sense to me. 521 00:24:47,448 --> 00:24:48,728 it made perfect sense to me. 522 00:24:48,728 --> 00:24:52,248 She would burst into tears sometimes just coming back to China. 523 00:24:52,248 --> 00:24:52,488 She would burst into tears sometimes And when I met your dad... Remember? 524 00:24:52,488 --> 00:24:54,368 And when I met your dad... Remember? 525 00:24:54,368 --> 00:24:58,128 I met your dad, and I said, "Your dad's not white." 526 00:24:58,128 --> 00:25:00,368 And all the while there was this story 527 00:25:00,368 --> 00:25:02,608 and connecting two families and a story 528 00:25:02,608 --> 00:25:05,208 to a particular place in Australia. 529 00:25:07,368 --> 00:25:09,008 And what was incredible too for us 530 00:25:09,008 --> 00:25:13,008 is that, you know, out of all the places in Australia 531 00:25:13,008 --> 00:25:17,768 that Tracey's Chinese great-grandfather could come to, 532 00:25:17,768 --> 00:25:18,008 that Tracey's Chinese he came to my ancestral country, 533 00:25:18,008 --> 00:25:22,288 he came to my ancestral country, 534 00:25:22,288 --> 00:25:25,448 that he arrives in Wiradjuri country. 535 00:25:25,448 --> 00:25:31,128 And Tracey's great-grandmother is living there on Wiradjuri country. 536 00:25:31,128 --> 00:25:31,368 And Tracey's great-grandmother is And that, years later, we meet. 537 00:25:31,368 --> 00:25:34,008 And that, years later, we meet. 538 00:25:34,008 --> 00:25:36,168 In a way, everything meets here. 539 00:25:36,168 --> 00:25:36,408 My Aboriginal ancestry, In a way, everything meets here. 540 00:25:36,408 --> 00:25:39,288 My Aboriginal ancestry, Wiradjuri ancestry, 541 00:25:39,288 --> 00:25:43,848 Tracey's Chinese ancestry, her European ancestry 542 00:25:43,848 --> 00:25:44,088 Tracey's Chinese ancestry, and our relationship together. 543 00:25:44,088 --> 00:25:45,568 and our relationship together. 544 00:25:45,568 --> 00:25:48,728 And it all sort of comes to this land 545 00:25:48,728 --> 00:25:51,128 from other lands and from other cultures 546 00:25:51,128 --> 00:25:53,128 and it all connects in this place. 547 00:25:57,968 --> 00:25:59,928 I don't feel any different 548 00:25:59,928 --> 00:26:03,968 for having found out I have a Chinese ancestor 549 00:26:03,968 --> 00:26:09,168 because I've never identified as anything other than a human being. 550 00:26:09,168 --> 00:26:09,408 because I've never identified I still am who I am. 551 00:26:09,408 --> 00:26:11,208 I still am who I am. 552 00:26:11,208 --> 00:26:13,888 It's nice to know that I've got other histories 553 00:26:13,888 --> 00:26:14,128 It's nice to know and these other stories, 554 00:26:14,128 --> 00:26:15,248 and these other stories, 555 00:26:15,248 --> 00:26:19,008 and you discover things, and that's wonderful. 556 00:26:19,008 --> 00:26:22,568 And, you know, you use that as the journey continues. 557 00:26:24,448 --> 00:26:26,928 I think this story shows up how crazy it was 558 00:26:26,928 --> 00:26:32,008 that here were people saying to Tracey when we got together, 559 00:26:32,008 --> 00:26:34,608 saying to someone they thought was white, 560 00:26:34,608 --> 00:26:38,248 "You don't wanna get involved with these people - they're not like us." 561 00:26:38,248 --> 00:26:38,488 "You don't wanna get involved with Little did they know 562 00:26:38,488 --> 00:26:40,008 Little did they know 563 00:26:40,008 --> 00:26:43,168 that they were talking to someone who wasn't white at all. 564 00:26:43,168 --> 00:26:43,408 that they were talking to someone (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY) 565 00:26:43,408 --> 00:26:47,688 (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY) 566 00:27:04,128 --> 00:27:06,048 ANNE LAMBERT: How do you talk about it? 567 00:27:06,048 --> 00:27:06,288 ANNE LAMBERT: It's such a huge subject, isn't it? 568 00:27:06,288 --> 00:27:09,008 It's such a huge subject, isn't it? 569 00:27:09,008 --> 00:27:10,928 And there's a lot in it... 570 00:27:11,888 --> 00:27:13,768 ..in that subject. 571 00:27:23,488 --> 00:27:26,528 So, I'd like to do some truth-telling. 572 00:27:28,048 --> 00:27:31,568 My truth, that is... 573 00:27:31,568 --> 00:27:34,408 ..um, about beauty. 574 00:27:34,408 --> 00:27:39,128 Beauty is a much bigger subject than youthful beauty. 575 00:27:39,128 --> 00:27:43,048 You know, beauty is, you know, eternal. 576 00:27:43,048 --> 00:27:44,368 It's just one of those things. 577 00:27:44,368 --> 00:27:47,968 It speaks to us, you know. It speaks to our soul. 578 00:27:47,968 --> 00:27:48,208 It speaks to us, you know. But youthful beauty, yes, it passes. 579 00:27:48,208 --> 00:27:51,048 But youthful beauty, yes, it passes. 580 00:27:52,088 --> 00:27:55,208 And we change, you know? 581 00:27:55,208 --> 00:27:57,313 Thank God we do, 582 00:27:57,313 --> 00:27:58,100 you know, that we grow into ourselves and into our strengths 583 00:28:00,448 --> 00:28:04,248 Well, it was 1975 584 00:28:04,248 --> 00:28:07,648 and Picnic At Hanging Rock 585 00:28:07,648 --> 00:28:11,848 was a very different film for the time. 586 00:28:11,848 --> 00:28:14,328 And to play Miranda, 587 00:28:14,328 --> 00:28:17,448 one of the schoolgirls who disappeared on Hanging Rock 588 00:28:17,448 --> 00:28:17,688 one of the schoolgirls in Joan Lindsay's novel, 589 00:28:17,688 --> 00:28:19,928 in Joan Lindsay's novel, 590 00:28:19,928 --> 00:28:21,128 in the film 591 00:28:21,128 --> 00:28:21,368 at that time was... in the film 592 00:28:21,368 --> 00:28:24,968 at that time was... yeah, it was special. 593 00:28:24,968 --> 00:28:25,208 at that time was... It felt important. 594 00:28:25,208 --> 00:28:26,688 It felt important. 595 00:28:26,688 --> 00:28:30,688 And, yes, I think I did understand what I was doing, 596 00:28:30,688 --> 00:28:34,848 who Miranda was and what she represented. 597 00:28:35,780 --> 00:28:38,128 that people still occasionally, 598 00:28:38,128 --> 00:28:40,568 even at this stage in my life, 599 00:28:40,568 --> 00:28:41,768 recognise me 600 00:28:41,768 --> 00:28:45,808 is because that image just gets shown over and over and over again. 601 00:28:49,048 --> 00:28:53,728 I didn't grow up feeling... (LAUGHS) ..like I was beautiful. 602 00:28:53,728 --> 00:28:57,048 I was very focused on all my flaws. 603 00:28:57,048 --> 00:29:00,208 But, as I got older and started working, 604 00:29:00,208 --> 00:29:04,208 I became aware that others thought that I was beautiful. 605 00:29:04,208 --> 00:29:08,248 I felt incredibly self-conscious and shy, you know? 606 00:29:08,248 --> 00:29:14,408 I felt uncomfortable with the attention and with the gaze. 607 00:29:14,408 --> 00:29:19,088 I know that Miranda is a Botticelli angel. 608 00:29:20,048 --> 00:29:24,568 Picnic makes reference to the Botticelli Venus, 609 00:29:24,568 --> 00:29:29,168 and, "Miranda is a Botticelli angel," or whatever that moment, 610 00:29:29,168 --> 00:29:30,768 and so people after that film 611 00:29:30,768 --> 00:29:35,928 were always giving me things with the Botticelli Venus on them - 612 00:29:35,928 --> 00:29:39,168 everything from tea towels to statues. 613 00:29:39,168 --> 00:29:43,968 And when I finally saw her at the gallery in Florence... 614 00:29:45,048 --> 00:29:46,568 ..I just... 615 00:29:46,568 --> 00:29:48,808 ..I stood opposite...you know, on the other side of the room 616 00:29:48,808 --> 00:29:49,048 ..I stood opposite...you know, and I just felt terribly... 617 00:29:49,048 --> 00:29:51,008 and I just felt terribly... 618 00:29:52,008 --> 00:29:54,448 ..I don't know, sad for her or something. 619 00:29:54,448 --> 00:29:57,208 You know, she's like... she's got these sad eyes 620 00:29:57,208 --> 00:29:57,448 You know, she's like... as though she's been carrying 621 00:29:57,448 --> 00:29:58,768 as though she's been carrying 622 00:29:58,768 --> 00:30:03,488 the projections and the fantasies and the expectations of people 623 00:30:03,488 --> 00:30:07,008 for hundreds of years... (LAUGHS) 624 00:30:07,008 --> 00:30:10,448 ..you know, and she just looks tired. 625 00:30:10,448 --> 00:30:12,208 I felt really moved by it. 626 00:30:12,208 --> 00:30:17,688 And, you know, in my minuscule kind of version of that, 627 00:30:17,688 --> 00:30:17,928 And, you know, in my minuscule you know, I knew what that was like. 628 00:30:17,928 --> 00:30:20,328 you know, I knew what that was like. 629 00:30:21,888 --> 00:30:23,728 INTERVIEWER: When did you think to yourself, 630 00:30:23,728 --> 00:30:27,208 "Oh, this whole beauty thing is just bullshit"? 631 00:30:29,048 --> 00:30:31,728 It wasn't even particularly around beauty. 632 00:30:31,728 --> 00:30:34,368 It was more just around the powerlessness 633 00:30:34,368 --> 00:30:37,488 and the time-wasting of being an actor. 634 00:30:37,488 --> 00:30:37,728 and the time-wasting I guess I'd had enough of that 635 00:30:37,728 --> 00:30:39,328 I guess I'd had enough of that 636 00:30:39,328 --> 00:30:39,568 and I didn't want it I guess I'd had enough of that 637 00:30:39,568 --> 00:30:41,808 and I didn't want it to be all about me all the time, 638 00:30:41,808 --> 00:30:44,128 I didn't want it to be in focus - 639 00:30:44,128 --> 00:30:47,408 says she, staring down the barrel of the camera. 640 00:30:47,408 --> 00:30:47,648 says she, staring down But, yeah, um... 641 00:30:47,648 --> 00:30:49,888 But, yeah, um... 642 00:30:51,568 --> 00:30:54,688 And so I became a psychotherapist. 643 00:30:57,368 --> 00:31:00,808 When I started working as a psychotherapist, 644 00:31:00,808 --> 00:31:05,768 I actually started mostly working with creative people, 645 00:31:05,768 --> 00:31:10,328 and then often the issue of addiction came up. 646 00:31:10,328 --> 00:31:15,288 And so I started to focus and specialise in addiction. 647 00:31:15,288 --> 00:31:15,528 And then, underneath addiction is... and specialise in addiction. 648 00:31:15,528 --> 00:31:18,848 And then, underneath addiction is... 649 00:31:20,168 --> 00:31:22,368 ..almost always trauma. 650 00:31:22,368 --> 00:31:26,848 And so I specialised and started working with trauma. 651 00:31:30,408 --> 00:31:36,848 At times, I think, particularly now working with young women a lot 652 00:31:36,848 --> 00:31:37,088 At times, I think, particularly now with all kinds of anxiety issues 653 00:31:37,088 --> 00:31:39,568 with all kinds of anxiety issues 654 00:31:39,568 --> 00:31:39,808 and body dysmorphia and eating with all kinds of anxiety issues 655 00:31:39,808 --> 00:31:47,568 and body dysmorphia and eating disorders and self-esteem issues... 656 00:31:48,688 --> 00:31:52,248 ..um, who are often sitting opposite me 657 00:31:52,248 --> 00:31:56,608 looking, you know, just gloriously, youthfully beautiful, 658 00:31:56,608 --> 00:31:56,848 looking, you know, just gloriously, just naturally beautiful, 659 00:31:56,848 --> 00:31:59,848 just naturally beautiful, 660 00:31:59,848 --> 00:32:00,088 um...but somehow thinking just naturally beautiful, 661 00:32:00,088 --> 00:32:03,808 um...but somehow thinking they're not enough 662 00:32:03,808 --> 00:32:06,488 or they're not perfect enough or they're not... 663 00:32:06,488 --> 00:32:09,648 ..you know, their teeth aren't white enough 664 00:32:09,648 --> 00:32:13,728 or their lips aren't big enough or their breasts aren't big enough 665 00:32:13,728 --> 00:32:15,088 or whatever. 666 00:32:15,088 --> 00:32:17,368 Or they're not thin enough - that's the big one. 667 00:32:17,368 --> 00:32:21,968 They're looking for their value in somebody else's eyes. 668 00:32:26,648 --> 00:32:29,968 I wish that every...every woman, every young man, 669 00:32:29,968 --> 00:32:33,608 would look at their strengths, look at their gifts, 670 00:32:33,608 --> 00:32:39,368 look at their character, strengths and virtues, as they say. 671 00:32:39,368 --> 00:32:45,128 And we grow self-esteem by doing estimable things. 672 00:32:45,128 --> 00:32:47,368 You know, it's...it's... 673 00:32:47,368 --> 00:32:50,208 It's the doing of it, you know? 674 00:32:52,568 --> 00:32:54,888 Becoming our own person. 675 00:32:56,128 --> 00:32:58,368 That's what's important. 676 00:33:03,848 --> 00:33:06,848 It is no accident that I found my way here. 677 00:33:06,848 --> 00:33:07,088 It is no accident It's hours from everywhere. 678 00:33:07,088 --> 00:33:08,848 It's hours from everywhere. 679 00:33:08,848 --> 00:33:09,088 I just love this place. It's hours from everywhere. 680 00:33:09,088 --> 00:33:12,488 I just love this place. Talk about beauty. 681 00:33:12,488 --> 00:33:12,728 I just love this place. I have to drive down, often, to work, 682 00:33:12,728 --> 00:33:16,408 I have to drive down, often, to work, 683 00:33:16,408 --> 00:33:19,248 and every single time that I drive, 684 00:33:19,248 --> 00:33:23,768 it's...it's always different and it's always beautiful. 685 00:33:23,768 --> 00:33:25,128 And I haven't gotten used to it. 686 00:33:25,128 --> 00:33:25,368 It's like, "Oh, my God, And I haven't gotten used to it. 687 00:33:25,368 --> 00:33:27,408 It's like, "Oh, my God, look at that mountain!" 688 00:33:27,408 --> 00:33:29,928 (LAUGHS) Or, "Look at that light through the trees," 689 00:33:29,928 --> 00:33:33,448 or the mist or the snake on the road 690 00:33:33,448 --> 00:33:35,928 or, you know, the dingo or the whatever. 691 00:33:35,928 --> 00:33:38,168 It's just beauty everywhere, 692 00:33:38,168 --> 00:33:40,168 and I feel drenched in it. 693 00:33:43,408 --> 00:33:45,728 On some level, I think, 694 00:33:45,728 --> 00:33:48,528 there's nothing bullshit about beauty. 695 00:33:48,528 --> 00:33:52,128 I mean, beauty is beauty is beauty. 696 00:33:52,128 --> 00:33:57,328 Nobody ever says, "That's not a very beautiful rainbow." 697 00:33:57,328 --> 00:33:57,568 Nobody ever says, "That's not There are different kinds of beauty, 698 00:33:57,568 --> 00:33:59,888 There are different kinds of beauty, 699 00:33:59,888 --> 00:34:04,008 and I think that's what's important to sort of understand, 700 00:34:04,008 --> 00:34:08,648 particularly as you age or change. 701 00:34:08,648 --> 00:34:12,248 And also to understand that our true value lies... 702 00:34:14,088 --> 00:34:16,288 ..in here, it's inside us. 703 00:34:16,288 --> 00:34:18,568 You know? That's where the... 704 00:34:19,528 --> 00:34:21,808 ..where the preciousness is. 705 00:34:21,808 --> 00:34:22,968 Mm. 706 00:34:43,968 --> 00:34:46,768 INTERVIEWER: Whenever you feel like it, you can start. 707 00:34:46,768 --> 00:34:49,288 OK. Just look straight into the camera. 708 00:34:49,288 --> 00:34:51,968 I just don't know where to begin, to be honest. 709 00:34:56,608 --> 00:34:59,128 There's something I want to tell you. 710 00:34:59,128 --> 00:35:02,048 I'm constantly asked, "Where are you from?" 711 00:35:02,048 --> 00:35:02,288 I'm constantly asked, Especially when I was younger, 712 00:35:02,288 --> 00:35:03,728 Especially when I was younger, 713 00:35:03,728 --> 00:35:06,208 people would always ask me that question, 714 00:35:06,208 --> 00:35:09,128 and I didn't understand at the time 715 00:35:09,128 --> 00:35:09,368 why I felt so uncomfortable and I didn't understand at the time 716 00:35:09,368 --> 00:35:14,408 why I felt so uncomfortable or just a bit weird about it. 717 00:35:14,408 --> 00:35:14,688 When people ask you, "Where are you from?" why I felt so uncomfortable or just a bit weird about it. 718 00:35:14,688 --> 00:35:18,088 When people ask you, "Where are you from?" 719 00:35:18,088 --> 00:35:20,608 it makes you feel like you don't belong here. 720 00:35:20,608 --> 00:35:22,528 You are asked that question every day. 721 00:35:22,528 --> 00:35:22,768 You are asked that question In every situation, wherever you are, 722 00:35:22,768 --> 00:35:25,608 In every situation, wherever you are, 723 00:35:25,608 --> 00:35:25,848 people are asking you In every situation, wherever you are, 724 00:35:25,848 --> 00:35:28,728 people are asking you where you belong. 725 00:35:28,728 --> 00:35:31,528 So, eventually, I started asking other people 726 00:35:31,528 --> 00:35:34,968 about their experience with the question, "Where are you from?" 727 00:35:34,968 --> 00:35:35,208 about their experience with And it was really interesting for me 728 00:35:35,208 --> 00:35:37,808 And it was really interesting for me 729 00:35:37,808 --> 00:35:38,048 because I set out And it was really interesting for me 730 00:35:38,048 --> 00:35:41,768 because I set out kind of on a personal mission 731 00:35:41,768 --> 00:35:46,768 to have context for the years of encounters with that question 732 00:35:46,768 --> 00:35:49,368 and all those mixed emotions that came up 733 00:35:49,368 --> 00:35:53,008 when somebody asked me that question, "Where are you from?" 734 00:35:53,008 --> 00:35:56,568 It kind of brings up a lot of feelings for people. 735 00:35:56,568 --> 00:36:00,088 It makes you feel like YOU don't even know where you belong. 736 00:36:04,888 --> 00:36:07,288 When someone asks me where I'm from, 737 00:36:07,288 --> 00:36:07,528 I feel, like, the heat rise to my cheeks When someone asks me where I'm from, 738 00:36:07,528 --> 00:36:12,328 I feel, like, the heat rise to my cheeks 739 00:36:12,328 --> 00:36:15,128 because it's just so infuriating 740 00:36:15,128 --> 00:36:17,968 and it makes me really, really angry. 741 00:36:21,128 --> 00:36:24,728 Every time I'm asked that question, it's... 742 00:36:24,728 --> 00:36:26,408 ..it's like, "Do I want to deal with this? 743 00:36:26,408 --> 00:36:26,648 "Do I even want to think right now?" "Do I want to deal with this? 744 00:36:26,648 --> 00:36:28,608 "Do I even want to think right now?" 745 00:36:28,608 --> 00:36:31,808 What happens next could be terrifying. 746 00:36:31,808 --> 00:36:35,048 Or it could be really good, you know? I don't know. 747 00:36:35,048 --> 00:36:37,288 If someone waltzes up to me and says, "Where are you from?" 748 00:36:37,288 --> 00:36:40,648 and I say, "I'm from Western Sydney"... 749 00:36:40,648 --> 00:36:44,088 Then people would say, "No, but, like, where are you REALLY from? 750 00:36:44,088 --> 00:36:44,328 "Like, where are you FROM?" like, where are you REALLY from? 751 00:36:44,328 --> 00:36:45,928 "Like, where are you FROM?" 752 00:36:45,928 --> 00:36:46,168 "Like, where are you FROM?" When people ask and don't get the answer that they want, 753 00:36:46,168 --> 00:36:49,088 When people ask and don't get the answer that they want, 754 00:36:49,088 --> 00:36:50,328 they'll keep hounding 755 00:36:50,328 --> 00:36:52,248 and they'll keep pressing and they'll keep going. 756 00:36:52,248 --> 00:36:52,528 I say that I'm from Coburg North, every single time. and they'll keep pressing and they'll keep going. 757 00:36:52,528 --> 00:36:57,128 I say that I'm from Coburg North, every single time. 758 00:36:57,128 --> 00:37:00,088 And they'll say, "Oh, but what about before that?" 759 00:37:00,088 --> 00:37:02,888 And I'll say, "Oh, well, I was born in Colombia." 760 00:37:02,888 --> 00:37:03,128 And they say, "Oh. I was born in Colombia." 761 00:37:03,128 --> 00:37:05,368 And they say, "Oh. 762 00:37:06,288 --> 00:37:08,328 "But I thought people from Colombia 763 00:37:08,328 --> 00:37:09,848 "were, like, a lot lighter." 764 00:37:09,848 --> 00:37:10,088 "were, like, a lot lighter." slave trade happened." 765 00:37:10,088 --> 00:37:12,688 And I'll say, "The transatlantic slave trade happened." 766 00:37:12,688 --> 00:37:12,928 And they'll be like, "Oh." slave trade happened." 767 00:37:12,928 --> 00:37:14,288 And they'll be like, "Oh." 768 00:37:22,608 --> 00:37:25,408 It makes me feel as though I don't belong here 769 00:37:25,408 --> 00:37:28,528 because I'm not white or white-passing. 770 00:37:28,528 --> 00:37:32,088 It makes me feel as though I'm not "normal" 771 00:37:32,088 --> 00:37:32,328 It makes me feel as though or...I don't look 772 00:37:32,328 --> 00:37:35,048 or...I don't look 773 00:37:35,048 --> 00:37:37,088 the way I'm supposed to look. 774 00:37:37,088 --> 00:37:37,328 I think, often, when people ask, "Where are you from?" the way I'm supposed to look. 775 00:37:37,328 --> 00:37:39,968 I think, often, when people ask, "Where are you from?" 776 00:37:39,968 --> 00:37:42,808 they're really just asking me, "Why are you black?" 777 00:37:42,808 --> 00:37:43,088 they're really just asking me, "Why are you black?" I remember when I was in kindergarten, there was this girl 778 00:37:43,088 --> 00:37:46,048 I remember when I was in kindergarten, there was this girl 779 00:37:46,048 --> 00:37:49,288 who always used to just address me as 'black boy', 780 00:37:49,288 --> 00:37:53,128 and, so, often when people waltz up to me 781 00:37:53,128 --> 00:37:55,408 and, you know, say, "Where are you from?" or something like that, 782 00:37:55,408 --> 00:37:58,488 it...it...it feels like they're doing the same thing 783 00:37:58,488 --> 00:38:00,488 because that's all that they're seeing. 784 00:38:00,488 --> 00:38:04,248 Why is there an assumption that to belong in Australia 785 00:38:04,248 --> 00:38:07,288 that you should be white? 786 00:38:07,288 --> 00:38:10,848 You know, the first people here were black people. 787 00:38:10,848 --> 00:38:13,688 Would you walk up to a Caucasian person 788 00:38:13,688 --> 00:38:13,928 Would you walk up and ask them, "Where are you from?" 789 00:38:13,928 --> 00:38:16,248 and ask them, "Where are you from?" 790 00:38:16,248 --> 00:38:16,488 I'm not ashamed of my heritage and ask them, "Where are you from?" 791 00:38:16,488 --> 00:38:20,368 I'm not ashamed of my heritage or the mix of culture in my family. 792 00:38:20,368 --> 00:38:20,608 I'm not ashamed of my heritage I think that makes me really special. 793 00:38:20,608 --> 00:38:22,568 I think that makes me really special. 794 00:38:22,568 --> 00:38:26,168 Everyone I've spoken to knows that and believes that. 795 00:38:29,288 --> 00:38:31,488 I think that there's been a shift 796 00:38:31,488 --> 00:38:36,448 in the attitudes of a lot of my friends and family 797 00:38:36,448 --> 00:38:36,688 in the attitudes who have this shared experience. 798 00:38:36,688 --> 00:38:38,968 who have this shared experience. 799 00:38:38,968 --> 00:38:42,968 I think that for my mum and her siblings 800 00:38:42,968 --> 00:38:43,208 I think that for my mum it was more a matter of survival 801 00:38:43,208 --> 00:38:45,888 it was more a matter of survival 802 00:38:45,888 --> 00:38:46,128 and, you know, it was more a matter of survival 803 00:38:46,128 --> 00:38:48,568 and, you know, coming to a new country 804 00:38:48,568 --> 00:38:52,688 and trying to establish yourself and keep your family safe. 805 00:38:52,688 --> 00:38:56,648 You just had to suck it up and deal with it and answer it. 806 00:38:56,648 --> 00:38:56,888 You just had to suck it up For our generation, 807 00:38:56,888 --> 00:38:58,608 For our generation, 808 00:38:58,608 --> 00:39:02,008 I think this, like, overarching feeling of exhaustion 809 00:39:02,008 --> 00:39:06,528 has kind of pushed us to be more combative. 810 00:39:06,528 --> 00:39:09,048 And I think that everybody's sick of it. 811 00:39:10,008 --> 00:39:12,928 The only good experience I have 812 00:39:12,928 --> 00:39:13,168 when it comes to my cultural The only good experience I have 813 00:39:13,168 --> 00:39:17,048 when it comes to my cultural heritage being in question 814 00:39:17,048 --> 00:39:17,288 when it comes to my cultural is with other people of colour. 815 00:39:17,288 --> 00:39:19,608 is with other people of colour. 816 00:39:19,608 --> 00:39:23,128 Like, this is a part of our experience 817 00:39:23,128 --> 00:39:23,368 Like, this is that we've had from childhood. 818 00:39:23,368 --> 00:39:26,248 that we've had from childhood. 819 00:39:26,248 --> 00:39:29,768 For example, this happens to me in Ubers a lot. 820 00:39:29,768 --> 00:39:31,808 If the driver is... 821 00:39:31,808 --> 00:39:35,088 ..an Indian person and they ask me where I'm from, 822 00:39:35,088 --> 00:39:35,328 ..an Indian person I know that's coming from a place 823 00:39:35,328 --> 00:39:37,568 I know that's coming from a place 824 00:39:37,568 --> 00:39:41,848 of wanting to, like, have this, like, shared connection. 825 00:39:43,288 --> 00:39:46,528 And I actually find those moments really heart-warming 826 00:39:46,528 --> 00:39:46,768 And I actually find those moments and they make me really happy. 827 00:39:46,768 --> 00:39:48,808 and they make me really happy. 828 00:39:48,808 --> 00:39:51,568 So, context definitely matters, for sure. 829 00:39:51,568 --> 00:39:51,848 Whenever other people, particularly other Asian people, approach me, So, context definitely matters, for sure. 830 00:39:51,848 --> 00:39:55,168 Whenever other people, particularly other Asian people, approach me, 831 00:39:55,168 --> 00:39:58,488 I know that they only, only want to find out 832 00:39:58,488 --> 00:40:02,448 if we can speak the same language or if we eat the same types of food, 833 00:40:02,448 --> 00:40:04,848 if we really fucking love chilli or anything. 834 00:40:04,848 --> 00:40:05,888 Oh, sorry. Can I say that? 835 00:40:09,168 --> 00:40:12,208 My least favourite encounter with, "Where are you from?" 836 00:40:12,208 --> 00:40:12,448 My least favourite encounter is the guessing game, 837 00:40:12,448 --> 00:40:13,968 is the guessing game, 838 00:40:13,968 --> 00:40:18,488 when people say, "Oh, OK, are you Spanish?" 839 00:40:18,488 --> 00:40:22,528 Or "Are you... You look kind of like Native American." 840 00:40:22,528 --> 00:40:27,248 It dehumanises you having somebody pull apart your features, 841 00:40:27,248 --> 00:40:29,488 features that you got from your family, 842 00:40:29,488 --> 00:40:29,728 features that you got features that you see in your family, 843 00:40:29,728 --> 00:40:31,008 features that you see in your family, 844 00:40:31,008 --> 00:40:31,248 and you thought that that made you features that you see in your family, 845 00:40:31,248 --> 00:40:35,528 and you thought that that made you belong with them 846 00:40:35,528 --> 00:40:38,568 and belong where you were raised. 847 00:40:40,288 --> 00:40:42,208 I've started telling people that I'm Irish 848 00:40:42,208 --> 00:40:45,408 just for...just for... just for a giggle, 849 00:40:45,408 --> 00:40:48,368 just to see what their response is. 850 00:40:48,368 --> 00:40:52,368 And, oftentimes, people would be taken aback 851 00:40:52,368 --> 00:40:56,208 and they would be like, "Oh! Whereabouts in Ireland?" 852 00:40:56,208 --> 00:41:00,768 And I'll, with the worst possible Irish accent, say, 853 00:41:00,768 --> 00:41:03,168 (IRISH ACCENT) "Oh, I'm just from Dublin." (LAUGHS) 854 00:41:08,128 --> 00:41:10,608 Asking someone, "Where are you from?" 855 00:41:10,608 --> 00:41:10,848 Asking someone, doesn't always have to be bad. 856 00:41:10,848 --> 00:41:12,648 doesn't always have to be bad. 857 00:41:12,648 --> 00:41:15,128 It doesn't make you a terrible person. 858 00:41:15,128 --> 00:41:17,528 But it's just all about the context. 859 00:41:17,528 --> 00:41:19,648 I think, if I were to share a hot tip 860 00:41:19,648 --> 00:41:22,688 about how to have discussions about where someone's from, 861 00:41:22,688 --> 00:41:22,928 about how to have discussions probably the most important thing 862 00:41:22,928 --> 00:41:25,168 probably the most important thing 863 00:41:25,168 --> 00:41:29,168 is to...to work your way into it 864 00:41:29,168 --> 00:41:30,648 and don't just... 865 00:41:30,648 --> 00:41:33,288 ..don't just come at someone asking that question straight up. 866 00:41:33,288 --> 00:41:33,528 ..don't just come at someone And I also wouldn't ask it 867 00:41:33,528 --> 00:41:35,088 And I also wouldn't ask it 868 00:41:35,088 --> 00:41:39,088 so that you can talk about your, like, six-month trip to India. 869 00:41:39,088 --> 00:41:40,288 There's just so much you can talk about 870 00:41:40,288 --> 00:41:40,528 There's just so much without having to touch on something 871 00:41:40,528 --> 00:41:42,128 without having to touch on something 872 00:41:42,128 --> 00:41:45,528 that makes the other person feel different to you. 873 00:41:48,048 --> 00:41:51,168 I find that, when I'm comfortable around people, 874 00:41:51,168 --> 00:41:51,408 I find that, I'll just tell them. 875 00:41:51,408 --> 00:41:52,808 I'll just tell them. 876 00:41:52,808 --> 00:41:55,088 When I like them, then I'll tell them, you know? 877 00:41:55,088 --> 00:41:55,328 When I like them, "Where are YOU from?" 878 00:41:55,328 --> 00:41:57,568 "Where are YOU from?" 879 00:42:14,008 --> 00:42:15,928 Welcome to The Kastle! 880 00:42:36,448 --> 00:42:38,128 My truth 881 00:42:38,128 --> 00:42:40,648 is that I keep other people's secrets. 882 00:42:45,048 --> 00:42:49,608 When people step through the door as our clients, 883 00:42:49,608 --> 00:42:53,488 they're stepping into an alternative reality, 884 00:42:53,488 --> 00:42:53,728 they're stepping into because they do things here 885 00:42:53,728 --> 00:42:56,248 because they do things here 886 00:42:56,248 --> 00:43:01,968 that the ordinary person in the street might not understand. 887 00:43:01,968 --> 00:43:04,808 We close the door, and then they're in the safe zone. 888 00:43:06,248 --> 00:43:10,528 What happens in The Kastle stays in The Kastle. It always has. 889 00:43:12,848 --> 00:43:16,728 Here is our cross-dressing suite. We call it the Pussy Parlour. 890 00:43:18,928 --> 00:43:23,888 So, we have everything in here for the well-dressed cross-dresser. 891 00:43:23,888 --> 00:43:29,048 Wigs, shoes, lingerie, make-up - you name it, we've got it. 892 00:43:29,048 --> 00:43:29,288 Wigs, shoes, lingerie, make-up - We have shoes up to size 15. 893 00:43:29,288 --> 00:43:32,208 We have shoes up to size 15. 894 00:43:33,528 --> 00:43:37,808 The Kastle is Sydney's only legal house 895 00:43:37,808 --> 00:43:42,088 of bondage, discipline, cross-dressing, fetish, fantasy, 896 00:43:42,088 --> 00:43:46,888 and we've been here for 35, 36 years, 897 00:43:46,888 --> 00:43:47,128 and we cater to everything and we've been here for 35, 36 years, 898 00:43:47,128 --> 00:43:51,408 and we cater to everything that's kinky, different, unusual 899 00:43:51,408 --> 00:43:55,168 or could be considered alternative erotica. 900 00:44:01,408 --> 00:44:06,088 The Kastle's designed to be a secret world. 901 00:44:06,088 --> 00:44:08,928 We keep everybody here private 902 00:44:08,928 --> 00:44:11,888 so they don't run into anybody else. 903 00:44:11,888 --> 00:44:13,888 When they leave here, 904 00:44:13,888 --> 00:44:17,288 they can just leave here and it didn't happen. 905 00:44:18,848 --> 00:44:23,248 The people that come here have an itch that needs to be scratched. 906 00:44:23,248 --> 00:44:29,968 We've had politicians, judges, students, bus drivers, travellers. 907 00:44:29,968 --> 00:44:30,208 We've had politicians, judges, We've had transgender people. 908 00:44:30,208 --> 00:44:32,608 We've had transgender people. 909 00:44:32,608 --> 00:44:34,688 Some are so old, um... 910 00:44:34,688 --> 00:44:34,928 ..we have to practically Some are so old, um... 911 00:44:34,928 --> 00:44:37,488 ..we have to practically help them up the stairs. 912 00:44:38,448 --> 00:44:43,168 It's always interesting to me how multifaceted people are. 913 00:44:43,168 --> 00:44:48,288 The things that people do here are usually endlessly interesting. 914 00:44:48,288 --> 00:44:52,048 You know, I mean, the most ordinary-looking person 915 00:44:52,048 --> 00:44:52,288 You know, I mean, can sit here in the client's chair 916 00:44:52,288 --> 00:44:55,008 can sit here in the client's chair 917 00:44:55,008 --> 00:44:57,608 and tell you the most hair-raising story, 918 00:44:57,608 --> 00:44:57,848 and tell you and you go, "Wow!" 919 00:44:57,848 --> 00:45:00,208 and you go, "Wow!" 920 00:45:00,208 --> 00:45:04,648 So, over here we have stocks. 921 00:45:04,648 --> 00:45:06,968 You've seen them in the village square. 922 00:45:06,968 --> 00:45:07,208 You've seen them We have all kinds of implements here 923 00:45:07,208 --> 00:45:09,648 We have all kinds of implements here 924 00:45:09,648 --> 00:45:13,208 to cater for all sessions, from mild to wild. 925 00:45:13,208 --> 00:45:13,448 to cater for all sessions, So, we've got a cat of nine tails. 926 00:45:13,448 --> 00:45:17,768 So, we've got a cat of nine tails. 927 00:45:17,768 --> 00:45:18,008 We've got ropes there. So, we've got a cat of nine tails. 928 00:45:18,008 --> 00:45:21,368 We've got ropes there. We've got cuffs. 929 00:45:21,368 --> 00:45:24,968 We have a sling, which is a lot of fun. 930 00:45:24,968 --> 00:45:28,808 You haven't really lived until you've had a swing in the sling. 931 00:45:30,408 --> 00:45:37,208 Consent has always been synonymous with the BDSM scene around the world, 932 00:45:37,208 --> 00:45:42,488 and what it means is that we negotiate the activities 933 00:45:42,488 --> 00:45:42,728 and what it means before any activities begin. 934 00:45:42,728 --> 00:45:45,448 before any activities begin. 935 00:45:46,408 --> 00:45:52,368 We tell the clients at least twice before they go into the dungeon 936 00:45:52,368 --> 00:45:53,968 that the safe word is 'mercy'. 937 00:45:53,968 --> 00:45:56,688 Nothing is done to anybody against their will, 938 00:45:56,688 --> 00:46:00,848 because the safe word's always respected here, and people know that. 939 00:46:05,608 --> 00:46:07,808 And this is The Kastle Klinic. 940 00:46:07,808 --> 00:46:11,808 We have regulation straitjacket 941 00:46:11,808 --> 00:46:16,008 for any unruly...patients. 942 00:46:16,008 --> 00:46:23,608 We have speculums and proctoscopes in all sizes. 943 00:46:23,608 --> 00:46:28,568 We like to lay them down if they're that way inclined 944 00:46:28,568 --> 00:46:28,808 We like to lay them down and give them a thorough check-up. 945 00:46:28,808 --> 00:46:31,168 and give them a thorough check-up. 946 00:46:37,968 --> 00:46:40,288 I think destiny brought me here. 947 00:46:40,288 --> 00:46:44,008 Spending years in Brisbane, which I didn't like at all, 948 00:46:44,008 --> 00:46:49,008 I really was looking to broaden my horizons. 949 00:46:49,968 --> 00:46:53,688 So, I was probably about 16. 950 00:46:53,688 --> 00:46:58,728 I'd had enough and I went out on the highway and hitchhiked south. 951 00:47:00,608 --> 00:47:03,528 I had always wanted to go to Kings Cross 952 00:47:03,528 --> 00:47:06,488 because it was really jumping at that time. 953 00:47:06,488 --> 00:47:06,728 because it was really jumping The lights and the excitement. 954 00:47:06,728 --> 00:47:08,528 The lights and the excitement. 955 00:47:08,528 --> 00:47:12,448 And I got a job, stripped in the Cross 956 00:47:12,448 --> 00:47:15,368 and kicked on from there. 957 00:47:15,368 --> 00:47:20,048 The first time I had sex for money, I thought, "Wow! This is fantastic." 958 00:47:20,048 --> 00:47:24,608 I guess I just had the right personality for it, whatever that is. 959 00:47:27,168 --> 00:47:28,688 As luck would have it, 960 00:47:28,688 --> 00:47:32,048 I met the notorious Madame Lash 961 00:47:32,048 --> 00:47:35,328 quite soon after I got to Sydney. 962 00:47:35,328 --> 00:47:41,088 I was fascinated by the world of S&M 963 00:47:41,088 --> 00:47:48,688 that she was representing in a kind of theatrical, arty, onstage way, 964 00:47:48,688 --> 00:47:52,088 and that's where my fascination for B&D started 965 00:47:52,088 --> 00:47:52,328 and that's where my fascination and continues to this day. 966 00:47:52,328 --> 00:47:54,608 and continues to this day. 967 00:47:55,568 --> 00:48:00,688 My years running around naked or half-naked in hotel rooms 968 00:48:00,688 --> 00:48:05,288 and doing shows with Madame Lash and crazy things around the place 969 00:48:05,288 --> 00:48:09,368 came to an end because something happened. 970 00:48:10,928 --> 00:48:13,928 So, one night, after running around, 971 00:48:13,928 --> 00:48:14,168 um...drinking and carrying on So, one night, after running around, 972 00:48:14,168 --> 00:48:21,208 um...drinking and carrying on and taking drugs, I... 973 00:48:21,208 --> 00:48:24,168 ..caused a fire to happen in my bedroom 974 00:48:24,168 --> 00:48:24,408 ..caused a fire as I was passed out drunk. 975 00:48:24,408 --> 00:48:26,648 as I was passed out drunk. 976 00:48:26,648 --> 00:48:32,448 I was in hospital for close to a year, and... 977 00:48:32,448 --> 00:48:33,888 ..with... 978 00:48:33,888 --> 00:48:37,128 ..60% third-degree burns. 979 00:48:37,128 --> 00:48:42,608 And these are the scars that I received in the fire. 980 00:48:43,968 --> 00:48:47,808 I realised that, with scars all over me, 981 00:48:47,808 --> 00:48:51,048 I had to find a new form of income - 982 00:48:51,048 --> 00:48:54,288 something where I had to keep my clothes on. 983 00:48:58,528 --> 00:49:00,248 And then, as luck would have it, 984 00:49:00,248 --> 00:49:00,488 I ran into a lady And then, as luck would have it, 985 00:49:00,488 --> 00:49:04,088 I ran into a lady and told her my story 986 00:49:04,088 --> 00:49:04,328 I ran into a lady and she said, 987 00:49:04,328 --> 00:49:05,888 and she said, 988 00:49:05,888 --> 00:49:09,448 "Have you ever thought about being a dominatrix?" 989 00:49:09,448 --> 00:49:13,368 And I said, "Oh, I would love to be a dominatrix, 990 00:49:13,368 --> 00:49:13,608 And I said, "Oh, I would love "but I can't take my clothes off." 991 00:49:13,608 --> 00:49:16,648 "but I can't take my clothes off." 992 00:49:16,648 --> 00:49:19,288 And she said, "Hey, listen, 993 00:49:19,288 --> 00:49:22,288 "I'm a dominatrix and I don't take my clothes off." 994 00:49:22,288 --> 00:49:22,528 "I'm a dominatrix I thought, "Yeah, I could do that." 995 00:49:22,528 --> 00:49:25,568 I thought, "Yeah, I could do that." 996 00:49:27,608 --> 00:49:32,568 Being a dominatrix is so different from being a callgirl. 997 00:49:32,568 --> 00:49:37,648 It's a form of self-expression and it's artistic. 998 00:49:37,648 --> 00:49:41,248 It's like each session is a production. 999 00:49:41,248 --> 00:49:44,408 I used to say it's like being on a magic carpet 1000 00:49:44,408 --> 00:49:48,968 and you get on the carpet with the person you're sessioning with 1001 00:49:48,968 --> 00:49:51,728 and the mistress has to take it for a ride. 1002 00:49:51,728 --> 00:49:54,848 And so she's the actress and she's the producer 1003 00:49:54,848 --> 00:49:57,928 and she's the musical director and the costume person 1004 00:49:57,928 --> 00:49:58,168 and she's the musical director and all of that. 1005 00:49:58,168 --> 00:49:59,408 and all of that. 1006 00:49:59,408 --> 00:49:59,648 And then she has to bring it and all of that. 1007 00:49:59,648 --> 00:50:03,608 And then she has to bring it back down to a safe landing. 1008 00:50:03,608 --> 00:50:03,848 And then she has to bring it So, it's theatre and it's compassion 1009 00:50:03,848 --> 00:50:07,808 So, it's theatre and it's compassion 1010 00:50:07,808 --> 00:50:10,768 and it's listening and it's interpreting 1011 00:50:10,768 --> 00:50:13,448 and it's being empathetic with the person. 1012 00:50:13,448 --> 00:50:13,688 and it's being empathetic And I just love it. 1013 00:50:13,688 --> 00:50:16,128 And I just love it. 1014 00:50:18,328 --> 00:50:23,728 I feel really honoured, really, that they trust us enough to open up. 1015 00:50:23,728 --> 00:50:29,608 I don't recognise them in the street, even if I recognise them. 1016 00:50:29,608 --> 00:50:29,848 I don't recognise them in the street, So, yeah, the secrets stay with me 1017 00:50:29,848 --> 00:50:32,568 So, yeah, the secrets stay with me 1018 00:50:32,568 --> 00:50:32,808 and the secrets So, yeah, the secrets stay with me 1019 00:50:32,808 --> 00:50:35,808 and the secrets come to my grave with me. 1020 00:51:23,328 --> 00:51:25,928 I want to do some truth-telling. 1021 00:51:28,888 --> 00:51:33,968 Which might explain how my songwriting has changed 1022 00:51:33,968 --> 00:51:36,208 over the last three to four years. 1023 00:51:36,208 --> 00:51:39,968 You know, when I write now, I'm very aware of where I am. 1024 00:51:39,968 --> 00:51:44,648 I have a really conscious sense of the physicality of the world I'm in. 1025 00:51:47,208 --> 00:51:49,048 It began when I... 1026 00:51:50,248 --> 00:51:52,288 ..went to Ireland 1027 00:51:52,288 --> 00:51:56,528 to repair my relationship with my brother. 1028 00:51:58,248 --> 00:52:03,168 And that kind of came into focus because my father was dying, 1029 00:52:03,168 --> 00:52:06,528 so there was a lot of emotional crosscurrents. 1030 00:52:08,448 --> 00:52:10,968 But when I got there, we deci... 1031 00:52:10,968 --> 00:52:11,208 He took me around the countryside But when I got there, we deci... 1032 00:52:11,208 --> 00:52:14,568 He took me around the countryside near where he lives 1033 00:52:14,568 --> 00:52:14,808 He took me around the countryside and we just went and looked at ruins. 1034 00:52:14,808 --> 00:52:17,088 and we just went and looked at ruins. 1035 00:52:17,088 --> 00:52:18,808 I had no expectations, 1036 00:52:18,808 --> 00:52:20,768 didn't really understand what I was looking at. 1037 00:52:20,768 --> 00:52:24,408 But gradually, as time went by, it became apparent to me 1038 00:52:24,408 --> 00:52:27,808 that Ireland completely embraces its history. 1039 00:52:27,808 --> 00:52:28,048 that Ireland completely They want the people in that country 1040 00:52:28,048 --> 00:52:30,288 They want the people in that country 1041 00:52:30,288 --> 00:52:33,968 to understand where they've come from and how long the story is. 1042 00:52:35,208 --> 00:52:39,928 And I started to think about what I feel about Australia 1043 00:52:39,928 --> 00:52:44,608 and what my consciousness of history was when I was a kid, 1044 00:52:44,608 --> 00:52:46,768 and some of the things my father said to me 1045 00:52:46,768 --> 00:52:47,008 and some of the things about trying to explain the world. 1046 00:52:47,008 --> 00:52:50,168 about trying to explain the world. 1047 00:52:50,168 --> 00:52:50,408 And the fact that there was about trying to explain the world. 1048 00:52:50,408 --> 00:52:53,848 And the fact that there was a blind spot in our early childhood 1049 00:52:53,848 --> 00:52:54,088 And the fact that there was about Indigenous history 1050 00:52:54,088 --> 00:52:55,328 about Indigenous history 1051 00:52:55,328 --> 00:52:58,368 and about white Australia's relationship 1052 00:52:58,368 --> 00:53:00,648 with the people who had been removed from the land... 1053 00:53:02,328 --> 00:53:04,168 ..really shocked me. 1054 00:53:07,888 --> 00:53:11,968 I came to the conclusion that I have a direct personal stake 1055 00:53:11,968 --> 00:53:12,208 I came to the conclusion in the current outcome - 1056 00:53:12,208 --> 00:53:14,048 in the current outcome - 1057 00:53:14,048 --> 00:53:15,328 like, a direct relationship 1058 00:53:15,328 --> 00:53:17,488 between me living here now 1059 00:53:17,488 --> 00:53:22,728 and my ancestors arriving here in 1850. 1060 00:53:22,728 --> 00:53:28,448 You know, the fact that people were killed to clear land 1061 00:53:28,448 --> 00:53:31,728 is...it's public information, it's there. 1062 00:53:31,728 --> 00:53:31,968 is...it's public information, And either we talk about it 1063 00:53:31,968 --> 00:53:36,248 And either we talk about it 1064 00:53:36,248 --> 00:53:38,008 or we don't talk about it, 1065 00:53:38,008 --> 00:53:40,688 Regardless of what our race is. 1066 00:53:40,688 --> 00:53:43,808 And it needs to be discussed. 1067 00:53:43,808 --> 00:53:45,248 You know, it's critical. 1068 00:53:46,368 --> 00:53:49,008 I'm part of that. I'm not separate from it. 1069 00:53:49,008 --> 00:53:52,688 You know, I look back on that now and I...that is just staggering. 1070 00:53:52,688 --> 00:53:54,168 That's an enormous... 1071 00:53:55,848 --> 00:53:57,008 ..disconnection. 1072 00:53:57,008 --> 00:53:58,808 It's so powerful, you know? 1073 00:54:00,848 --> 00:54:03,448 But, at the same time, I don't live that experience. 1074 00:54:03,448 --> 00:54:05,968 I'm not Indigenous. I don't have that experience. 1075 00:54:07,128 --> 00:54:09,648 I'm more connected with their anger. 1076 00:54:09,648 --> 00:54:11,528 Like, I get it. 1077 00:54:11,528 --> 00:54:14,448 You know, it's pretty appalling. 1078 00:54:14,448 --> 00:54:18,088 You would have to live with it, accept it and grow up with it 1079 00:54:18,088 --> 00:54:18,328 You would have to live with it, and it would never leave you. 1080 00:54:18,328 --> 00:54:20,568 and it would never leave you. 1081 00:54:20,568 --> 00:54:21,928 You know? 1082 00:54:22,888 --> 00:54:27,368 Gradually, all of this experience 1083 00:54:27,368 --> 00:54:30,408 brought me back to making a record. 1084 00:54:30,408 --> 00:54:30,648 Slow Dawn, it's really brought me back to making a record. 1085 00:54:30,648 --> 00:54:34,368 Slow Dawn, it's really about my consciousness. 1086 00:54:34,368 --> 00:54:37,288 That's what that song is about - my shift. 1087 00:54:37,288 --> 00:54:40,808 I couldn't have written that song... probably not even a year ago. 1088 00:54:40,808 --> 00:54:43,328 10 years ago, it would have been out of the question. 1089 00:54:43,328 --> 00:54:47,688 If somebody asks me what that song is about, I'm going to tell them. 1090 00:54:47,688 --> 00:54:50,688 But it's written from a white man's perspective. 1091 00:54:50,688 --> 00:54:54,088 I'm not trying to characterise someone 1092 00:54:54,088 --> 00:54:56,608 who had a different experience to me. 1093 00:54:56,608 --> 00:55:01,528 It's about where I come from, what my consciousness is, quite distinctly, 1094 00:55:01,528 --> 00:55:06,288 the intense feeling of discomfort and shame attached to that. 1095 00:55:06,288 --> 00:55:07,768 You know, I can't be clearer than that. 1096 00:55:07,768 --> 00:55:10,288 But I...I mean, silence is not an option. 1097 00:55:10,288 --> 00:55:11,968 Simple as that. 1098 00:55:13,368 --> 00:55:16,328 I never imagined anyone actually asking me what this song was about, 1099 00:55:16,328 --> 00:55:16,568 I never imagined anyone actually you know? 1100 00:55:16,568 --> 00:55:17,488 you know? 1101 00:55:17,488 --> 00:55:19,208 And here I am talking about it. 1102 00:55:19,208 --> 00:55:22,488 I'm not sure I've got the answer, but it's the truth. 1103 00:55:22,488 --> 00:55:24,728 My good friend Cameron McKenzie 1104 00:55:24,728 --> 00:55:27,008 accompanying me on the acoustic guitar. 1105 00:55:27,008 --> 00:55:27,248 accompanying me This is called Slow Dawn. 1106 00:55:27,248 --> 00:55:29,048 This is called Slow Dawn. 1107 00:55:29,048 --> 00:55:32,248 (PLAYS GENTLE MELODY) 1108 00:55:42,128 --> 00:55:44,088 (SINGS) # Broken country 1109 00:55:44,088 --> 00:55:47,448 # Where the cattle sniff the ground 1110 00:55:47,448 --> 00:55:50,328 # The north wind was blowing 1111 00:55:50,328 --> 00:55:52,768 # The day the bones were found 1112 00:55:53,728 --> 00:55:56,208 # Hidden in the ashes 1113 00:55:56,208 --> 00:55:58,608 # For any fool to see 1114 00:55:59,568 --> 00:56:01,928 # Oh, Lord 1115 00:56:01,928 --> 00:56:04,688 # But there's a shadow over me 1116 00:56:10,128 --> 00:56:12,568 # People started talking 1117 00:56:12,568 --> 00:56:15,728 # Of some kind of killing ground 1118 00:56:15,728 --> 00:56:18,648 # They tried to keep it quiet 1119 00:56:18,648 --> 00:56:21,048 # But things got written down 1120 00:56:22,328 --> 00:56:24,528 # Murder and mayhem 1121 00:56:24,528 --> 00:56:27,368 # Some secret memory 1122 00:56:27,368 --> 00:56:30,168 # Oh, Lord 1123 00:56:30,168 --> 00:56:33,008 # But there's a shadow over me 1124 00:56:35,168 --> 00:56:37,568 # Slow dawn's rising 1125 00:56:37,568 --> 00:56:41,048 # Where the red dirt meets the sky 1126 00:56:41,048 --> 00:56:43,728 # I walk the empty riverbed 1127 00:56:43,728 --> 00:56:46,968 # Where the little white bones lie 1128 00:56:46,968 --> 00:56:49,848 # And out along the frontier 1129 00:56:49,848 --> 00:56:52,448 # Any fool can see 1130 00:56:54,208 --> 00:56:57,128 BOTH: # Slow dawn's rising 1131 00:56:57,128 --> 00:57:00,768 # And it's rolling over me 1132 00:57:03,248 --> 00:57:06,488 # Rolling over me 1133 00:57:10,368 --> 00:57:13,408 # There are many secret places 1134 00:57:13,408 --> 00:57:16,848 # "Don't go down there," Daddy said 1135 00:57:16,848 --> 00:57:19,488 # Playing in the ashes 1136 00:57:19,488 --> 00:57:22,128 # On that empty riverbed 1137 00:57:22,128 --> 00:57:25,368 # But I remember shadows dancing 1138 00:57:25,368 --> 00:57:28,008 # So wild and free 1139 00:57:28,968 --> 00:57:31,328 # Oh, Lord 1140 00:57:31,328 --> 00:57:34,208 # But there's a shadow over me 1141 00:57:36,248 --> 00:57:39,208 # Voices singing in the mist 1142 00:57:39,208 --> 00:57:41,928 # They whisper in my heart 1143 00:57:41,928 --> 00:57:44,928 # There's a hungry mob on the edge of town 1144 00:57:44,928 --> 00:57:45,168 # There's a hungry mob # They were trouble from the start 1145 00:57:45,168 --> 00:57:48,248 # They were trouble from the start 1146 00:57:48,248 --> 00:57:51,048 # The leaky shacks, the Southern Cross 1147 00:57:51,048 --> 00:57:53,488 # And the middens by the sea 1148 00:57:55,728 --> 00:57:58,488 # Slow dawn's rising 1149 00:57:58,488 --> 00:58:02,928 # And it's rolling over me 1150 00:58:04,968 --> 00:58:08,608 # Rolling over me 1151 00:58:10,928 --> 00:58:16,808 # Rolling over me, yeah 1152 00:58:16,808 --> 00:58:19,368 # Rolling over me. # 1153 00:58:26,928 --> 00:58:29,968 (BIRDS TWITTER) 1154 00:58:43,648 --> 00:58:49,248 WOMAN: My biggest memory is this idea that somehow my family didn't fit in. 1155 00:58:50,208 --> 00:58:53,448 WOMAN 2: There was a surprising amount of controversy. 1156 00:58:53,448 --> 00:58:55,408 Lots of religious figures going on TV 1157 00:58:55,408 --> 00:58:58,008 and saying I should never have been born. 1158 00:58:58,008 --> 00:58:59,768 MAN: When you're young, you just assume 1159 00:58:59,768 --> 00:59:02,928 that your parents are all-powerful and will remain all-powerful. 1160 00:59:05,128 --> 00:59:07,128 Captions by Red Bee Media 1161 00:59:07,128 --> 00:59:09,328 Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation