(WHISPERING VOICES OVERLAP)
(CHILD LAUGHS)
(WOMAN LAUGHS)
(WHISPERING VOICES OVERLAP)
MISTRESS SCARLETT: The most ordinary-looking person
can sit here and tell you the most hair-raising story.
STAN GRANT: You think you know who someone is,
STAN GRANT: but do we really know them?
TRACEY HOLMES: Probably not.
YUMI STYNES: There's something I want to tell you.
YUMI STYNES: There's something I am powerful.
MARK SEYMOUR: Silence is not an option.
MARK SEYMOUR: Simple as that.
OK.
INTERVIEWER: You look right here.
Are you comfortable doing that? Yeah, yeah.
But I'm listening to you, aren't I? Yeah.
OK, cool.
I kept two secrets in this house.
At any given moment,
I felt like I had two closets to emerge from.
The first was...
..that my mother was someone that people were aware of.
She's a singer, an Australian singer.
She's a singer, And I felt as though
that was something And I felt as though
that was something that I had to keep from people
so that they wouldn't treat me differently,
so that they wouldn't which happened quite a bit.
My close friends knew who Mum was.
They'd come over and she'd My close friends knew who Mum was.
They'd come over and she'd be baking a cake in the kitchen,
They'd come over and she'd so it was pretty obvious. (LAUGHS)
Who IS your mum?
Hello. I'm Julie Anthony and I'm Tamara's mum.
Hello. I'm Julie Anthony Ladies and gentlemen, Julie Anthony.
Julie Anthony.
(APPLAUSE)
TAMARA: I can't think of her modern contemporary
because she was so theatrical.
(SINGS) # Second-hand pearls
# I'm wearing second-hand curls... #
# I'm wearing To describe...mm...Julie Anthony?
I think on stage To describe...mm...Julie Anthony?
I think on stage I'm a bit of a jack-of-all-trades.
BOTH: (SING) # Even the nights are better... #
She did Sound Of Music and all these touring shows
She did Sound Of Music as well as performances
and then, in later life, she did a lot of jazz shows.
(JAZZ MUSIC PLAYS) (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
Mum was really the voice of Australia,
Mum was really because she was the anthem lady.
And they'd call her 'Julie Anthemy',
And that just sort of followed her around for her entire life.
# We've golden soil and wealth for toil
# We've golden soil # Our home is girt by sea... #
It's the profile that the anthem gives you
and that you're in the middle of a stadium as a rule,
and it's at the beginning of some incredibly important match,
and it's at the beginning and so you're a part of that
for that fleeting moment.
My mum sang the national anthem for that fleeting moment.
My mum sang the national anthem at every weekend football game
My mum sang the national anthem as well as the 2000 Olympics.
It's afforded some pretty amazing moments,
and I guess the Olympics was the main one.
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
Julie Anthony was the person who, in the wings, had to switch gear
and not wonder about what we were going to have for dinner
and did Tamara or Tali get that homework thing done.
I had to go out and be Julie Anthony.
(SINGS) # But only in my mind I've said, "I love you"... #
(SINGS) # But only in my mind I've always had to, as a mother,
try and stay in the background as best you can.
try and stay in the background And it's a bit tricky maybe
if the principal says,
"Would you mind singing at the opening of the..." whatever.
And I've managed to tap dance around most of those.
And I've managed ALL: (SING) # From Second Avenue. #
I realised ALL: (SING) # From Second Avenue. #
I realised probably when I was about 11 or 10
that as soon as I would tell people who Mum was,
especially mothers at school or at a friend's house,
they would immediately treat me differently.
they would immediately I registered that it was a tool
that I could use if I wanted to
in order to make a situation go more positively for me.
That was a really bad lesson for me to learn at that time,
because I was then taught that being not myself was a positive thing.
INTERVIEWER: And your second secret?
My second secret.
I decided to be honest
and come out of both of those closets
at a really similar time.
I was probably about 20.
And...I remember walking over a bridge with Mum.
I just decided in that moment that I was going to tell her,
so I said, "Mum, I'm in love with someone, and she's a woman."
so I said, "Mum, I'm in love (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY)
I kind of looked at her (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY)
I kind of looked at her and thought, "Well, yes!"
So, I realised that, in that moment, that she needed to say it,
and I said, "Yeah, yeah. Great. Yeah. I know. That's good, Moo."
Um... "Oh, shall we go and have a cup of tea?"
(BOTH CHATTER AND LAUGH)
I'm not sure if she really clocked that I was struggling with who I was.
So, I don't know, I think you'll have to ask her. (CHUCKLES)
(SIGHS)
(CHUCKLES) Apart from the fact
that she only ever wore shorts and a T-shirt and a hat on backwards...
that she only ever wore shorts and (LAUGHS)
Mothers watch their children, don't they? That's what we do.
And I thought, uh...
.."Maybe. Could be."
Maybe a part of you is already there before they are, in a sense.
It wasn't an issue. It was just a fact.
And I think there might have been a bit of relief there -
"Oh, God, I don't have to deal with a son-in-law."
"Oh, God, I don't (LAUGHS)
I had primed myself for years
that this moment was going to be horrific or hard or...
Like, so much leading up to it.
Quite disappointing that there was no fireworks, actually...
Quite disappointing that (CHUCKLES) ..because I was ready.
But she was just...
..just Mum about it,
which was the best thing ..just Mum about it,
which was the best thing she could have done.
So, fast-forward seven years and same-sex marriage is now legal.
So, fast-forward seven years Hooray!
And I'm getting married to Eliza, Hooray!
And I'm getting married to Eliza, the love of my life,
And I'm getting married to Eliza, alongside my sister and her husband
in a double wedding.
And it was just so wonderful to have so many people in the room
celebrating us, and how far we had come to being who we were,
and then having my sister and her husband supporting us,
by standing up there with us and being like, "This is equal love."
by standing up there with us And that was enormous.
And my mum sang the national anthem, And that was enormous.
And my mum sang the national anthem, by popular demand.
So, she sang one verse of it, bless her -
So, she sang one verse of it, she really didn't want to.
I would like to think that, sooner rather than later,
we honour the first peoples of this country
and have the appropriate anthem for that.
I would stand up and lead the charge.
We just need to find out what that is.
But I would like it to be pretty soon.
(HUMS)
Would you like your eggs scrambled or poached?
Uh, scrambled, please. OK!
So, Eliza and I moved back to this house,
which is my childhood home,
about a year and a half ago now,
and we really needed to make it our own.
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
This house used to be...secrets for me.
This house used to be...secrets And now I'm living my truth,
and that's really lovely.
Because I am being me, for once. (CHUCKLES)
(BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY)
(ROCK MUSIC PLAYS)
YUMI STYNES: Running is a bit of a mind game.
It is horrible. It sucks. (LAUGHS)
It hurts.
And it almost never gets better.
But...
..you finish your run and suddenly you just feel amazing.
You feel invincible. You feel like you are Superwoman.
There's something I want to tell you.
I'm a mother of four,
I work three or four jobs
and I feel very powerful.
And I am not saying sorry for it.
It's a scary thing to admit that you feel powerful
because it feels like you're inviting people to take it away from you.
And for a woman I think it's particularly scary.
I've kind of realised through these fears of my work
I've kind of realised that I don't have to be liked by men.
And I'm really quite happy with that.
I think if you reach a point in your life
where you realise that no-one in any situation is liked by everyone,
then you can accept that people just won't like you.
then you can accept And that's kind of freeing.
I mean, I am actually, by skill and trade a television presenter.
And you'll see I'm not really on television so much at the moment.
The last time I said, "I feel powerful,"
I was on the front page of the Green Guide in Melbourne.
And I even remember the pose that I struck.
And that was the shot that they used -
me feeling powerful, me feeling formidable.
me feeling powerful, It was probably 11 or 12 years ago.
And within three weeks, I reckon, of that cover coming out,
it all fell apart.
So, I have these jobs where I have to talk -
radio show, TV shows, writing a column, lots and lots of words,
and among those literally thousands of words that I said every week
I said something about an army guy,
and I didn't realise that slagging off an army guy
is like slagging off Jesus Christ or the Anzacs.
Like, you just... In this country, it is a no-go zone.
The thing is I didn't even slag him off, I just said, "He's not my type,"
because I don't really go for those men.
because I don't really go And...
..within minutes of saying that on live TV,
people started to call up the TV channel and complain,
and then they started to call up radio talkback guys to dob me in.
and then they started to call up So, the shock jocks got in
and started to stir up their listeners against me.
Their listeners had never heard of me, they'd never watched my show,
but they were angry and motivated enough
to ring up my station and complain, write letters
and turn it into a huge, huge shitstorm.
Months of people ringing the TV channel that I worked for,
emailing my bosses,
going on the Facebook page to threaten to kill me and hurt me,
going on the Facebook page sexually assault me,
violently rape me.
And it just did not stop. violently rape me.
And it just did not stop. It was so unrelenting.
And it just did not stop. My TV show did get axed,
I didn't get renewed for my radio contract,
I didn't get renewed and my job at Foxtel evaporated.
So, I went from being on the cover of the paper
So, I went from to having literally no work.
It was really hard to deal with.
There were times during that phase
where I actually thought I would be better off to die.
where I actually thought I had nothing to contribute.
Months and months of feeling...
..in your head, "Why?"
Like, "Why did this happen?"
"Why am I completely unemployed?"
I was literally silenced.
So, in that time, I, um...
..I drank a lot.
And...
..I felt awful.
I've quit drinking a couple of times before,
and, for the first time, the thing I did differently this time
and, for the first time, was I told people.
And it was, um...
..confronting.
But it was also like, "Alright, if I tell people,
But it was also like, "and I tell people publicly,
"then if anyone sees me ordering wine or at the bottle shop...
"..they're going to know that I have fucked it up.
"..they're going to know "And I don't want that.
"And I want my kids to be proud of me."
ANOUK ELY: # When I grow up
# I wanna sail the ships
# On a million diamonds... #
I always say that my daughter Anouk saved my life.
I got pregnant when I was 25,
and I was pretty wild,
and getting pregnant just immediately brought me - poosh! -
and getting pregnant just right back down to earth.
Anouk looks like my mum, Yoshiko.
She's the most Asian-looking of my children.
She's the most Asian-looking (CHUCKLES) The others look white.
Even when Dee Dee was in my womb,
she was herself.
She is 17 now.
Yeah, I thought you'd like this one.
Well, I told you how much I love tomatoes at the moment.
Yeah.
I wish I was as smart and savvy when I was her age as Dee Dee is now.
She's kind of got a lot of stuff figured out.
Mercy, I hope, embodies what the future for young women will be.
She's sassy and fearless and smart and bright and extremely funny.
She's sassy and fearless and smart Good kick, sweetie.
I just hope she doesn't get it knocked out of her
the way it does to a lot of other young women.
Five years ago, I had my first son.
He's just a little slice of heaven
and I can't get enough of him
and I love the way that he's and I can't get enough of him
and I love the way that he's so influenced by his older sisters,
and me, of course, and his beautiful dad.
And he's just a unique character.
It was such a turning point to quit alcohol.
I can't tell you, like, the difference it's made.
My productivity has gone through the roof since quitting drinking,
My productivity has gone through my self-esteem and... (CHUCKLES)
..my power.
I started writing books, and they were good.
And it was like, "Actually, I'm not completely useless."
And it was like, "Actually, And it's a bit like running.
You don't have to be fast. And it's a bit like running.
You don't have to be fast. You don't have to be the best.
You just have to put your shoes on and do it,
and you're a runner, and that's enough.
A couple of years ago, I was offered my job back at KIIS FM.
And the podcast that I do, Ladies, We Need To Talk,
And the podcast that I do, has won awards.
I've got all this work that is really, really meaningful to me,
I've got all this work that is that I'm proud of.
And part of it is, I'm compensating that I'm proud of.
And part of it is, I'm compensating for the time I lost from drinking.
Because I could have done so much in those years and I didn't.
And so I'm, like, sprinting to try to catch up.
(INSTRUMENTS TUNING)
Is that better?
This is my volume right now.
My daughter Anouk plays in a rock band called the Nervous Wrex
with one of the kids she's known since she was in nappies.
with one of the kids she's known She's extremely kind.
She's always had so much empathy.
(SINGS) # Cry in the dark 'cause I'm alive in here
# I wanna run, wanna run till I get to the sun
# Then cry in the dark 'cause I'm alive in here
# I wanna run, wanna run till I get to the sun
# Then cry in the dark 'cause I'm alive in here... #
Last time I said that I felt powerful,
my life honestly did come crashing down.
my life honestly Saying it this time,
it feels like I'm putting myself out on a limb, but not really.
I'm not afraid of social media shitstorms.
I can deal with them. Been there, done that.
I can deal with them. # I wanna run... #
The next generation of women, I think, won't be silenced.
They're going to politically agitate, motivate, mobilise
and they're going to be fierce and loud.
Women are allowed to admit that they're powerful,
and we're even more powerful when we stick together.
So, do you want me just to start talking?
INTERVIEWER: No. Oh.
INTERVIEWER: No. (LAUGHS)
Yes. Tracey has a secret.
It's probably not what you're thinking right now.
In fact, I bet you a million dollars
it's not what you're thinking right now.
it's not You think you know who someone is.
You think you've got an idea of someone.
You think you can put someone in a box.
But do we really know them?
Probably not.
When Stan and I first started spending time together,
which was through work,
I was surprised by some of the reaction.
I was surprised Tracey, in particular, you know,
had to deal with things that people wouldn't say to me, to my face,
but would say to her behind my back.
I was told at work, "Look, um...we all like Stan,
I was told at work, "Stan's a nice guy,
"but you can't live with him because they're not like us."
"but you can't live with him Yeah, "THEY'RE not like us."
And I actually didn't know Yeah, "THEY'RE not like us."
And I actually didn't know what they were talking about.
And I actually didn't know I said, "Who's they?"
And then, you know, very early on
when I was meeting some of Stan's relatives
and we'd go to the shop and one day we went down to the bread shop
and we'd go to the shop and one day and I was with two of his nieces
and I ordered some bread rolls and a loaf of bread and...
and I ordered some bread rolls They put it on the counter
and Stan's nieces picked them up off the counter,
and the woman behind the counter said,
and the woman behind the counter "Put those down! They're not yours!"
Yeah, speaking to them in a way they would never speak to anybody else.
I would never have heard this woman speak like that ever,
and I'd been there hundreds of times.
and I'd been there And I said, "But they're with me."
And she was like, "Oh. Oh. Sorry."
It's not knowing who Aboriginal people are. That's the first thing.
It's not knowing who Aboriginal I mean, you know, most Australians
still don't have any contact I mean, you know, most Australians
still don't have any contact with Aboriginal people.
still don't have any contact That's the truth.
So, ironically, you know, when Tracey came into my world,
into a relationship with me, into an Aboriginal family,
she became part of an Aboriginal culture.
And there is no difference
between, you know, our son, Tracey and my son,
and my children from my first marriage.
and my children They are just brothers and sisters.
I know there were some people that...
..might have thought in the back of their mind,
"What's he doing with this white woman?"
But I have never, ever experienced anything
other than being made to feel very welcome and very included.
I've never felt as though I'm an outsider.
I've never felt Not ever.
And, unfortunately,
I can't say the same for the experience that he has had.
After Tracey and I got together and we left Channel 7, uh...
..we had about a year or so, we had a child, we bought a home,
..we had about a year or so, and then I got offered a job,
just as it happens, and then I got offered a job,
just as it happens, completely out of the blue,
to go and work for CNN, which was always a bit of a dream of mine,
I think, you know, to be able to work for a massive news organisation
I think, you know, to be able to that covered global events.
Packed our bags... (CHUCKLES) ..the following Friday,
we left for Hong Kong, didn't we? Yeah.
We left Australia early 2001,
so it was around 14 years that we were gone.
I used to say to Stan every time we hopped off the plane
when we went back home to Beijing where we were living,
I said, "It's kind of weird..."
You know, that smell? It's like... It's pollution
and it smells like fires and it smells like concrete.
You wouldn't describe it as a pleasant smell.
But I said, "That smell, there's something about it.
"I feel like I'm at home every time I come back here."
Hi! Hey!
(WOMAN SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) Hi. Good, thanks.
How you been? How's it going, brother? You good?
How you been? How's it going, So, we lived in Asia all these years,
and, essentially, we came back
after living in Hong Kong, Beijing,
the Middle East after living in Hong Kong, Beijing,
the Middle East in Abu Dhabi and Dubai.
the Middle East And then, three years ago,
I get this email from my cousin, my second cousin,
saying, "I've got something I want you to know."
Next minute I get email and then another email and another email.
And here's all this big, long family history
and supporting documents and war records and all sorts of things.
And she said, you know,
"Our great..." -
her great-grandfather, "Our great..." -
her great-grandfather, my great-great-grandfather -
"was Chinese, from Amoy in Fujian Province in China."
"was Chinese, from Amoy I said, "Stan, guess what.
"My grandmother's grandfather is Chinese."
And he went, "What?!"
(LAUGHS)
It's really funny, isn't it?
You know, you think, "Oh, this is Tracey Holmes,"
and being who she is and being fairly well-known in the media
and having the profile that she does.
People say that, you know, "You're Tracey Holmes."
Yeah, so my name really shouldn't be Tracey Holmes.
Holmes is a name that I have no genetic connection to.
My name should actually be Tracey Lin.
I mean, I wasn't shocked.
Our son, Jesse, he looks Chinese - he's got very Asian eyes.
What was interesting, especially with Jesse,
was that, if he was with Stan,
they would say to Stan, "Oh, your wife's Chinese,
they would say to Stan, "because I'm looking at your son."
And Stan would say, "No."
And then Jesse would be with me
and they'd look at Jesse and they'd say, "Oh, your husband's Chinese."
and they'd look at Jesse and they'd And I'd..."No." (LAUGHS)
When Tracey discovered that ancestry, that connection to China,
When Tracey discovered that it made perfect sense to me.
She would burst into tears sometimes just coming back to China.
She would burst into tears sometimes And when I met your dad... Remember?
I met your dad, and I said, "Your dad's not white."
And all the while there was this story
and connecting two families and a story
to a particular place in Australia.
And what was incredible too for us
is that, you know, out of all the places in Australia
that Tracey's Chinese great-grandfather could come to,
that Tracey's Chinese he came to my ancestral country,
that he arrives in Wiradjuri country.
And Tracey's great-grandmother is living there on Wiradjuri country.
And Tracey's great-grandmother is And that, years later, we meet.
In a way, everything meets here.
My Aboriginal ancestry, In a way, everything meets here.
My Aboriginal ancestry, Wiradjuri ancestry,
Tracey's Chinese ancestry, her European ancestry
Tracey's Chinese ancestry, and our relationship together.
And it all sort of comes to this land
from other lands and from other cultures
and it all connects in this place.
I don't feel any different
for having found out I have a Chinese ancestor
because I've never identified as anything other than a human being.
because I've never identified I still am who I am.
It's nice to know that I've got other histories
It's nice to know and these other stories,
and you discover things, and that's wonderful.
And, you know, you use that as the journey continues.
I think this story shows up how crazy it was
that here were people saying to Tracey when we got together,
saying to someone they thought was white,
"You don't wanna get involved with these people - they're not like us."
"You don't wanna get involved with Little did they know
that they were talking to someone who wasn't white at all.
that they were talking to someone (BOTH CONVERSE INDISTINCTLY)
ANNE LAMBERT: How do you talk about it?
ANNE LAMBERT: It's such a huge subject, isn't it?
And there's a lot in it...
..in that subject.
So, I'd like to do some truth-telling.
My truth, that is...
..um, about beauty.
Beauty is a much bigger subject than youthful beauty.
You know, beauty is, you know, eternal.
It's just one of those things.
It speaks to us, you know. It speaks to our soul.
It speaks to us, you know. But youthful beauty, yes, it passes.
And we change, you know?
Thank God we do,
you know, that we grow into ourselves and into our strengths
Well, it was 1975
and Picnic At Hanging Rock
was a very different film for the time.
And to play Miranda,
one of the schoolgirls who disappeared on Hanging Rock
one of the schoolgirls in Joan Lindsay's novel,
in the film
at that time was... in the film
at that time was... yeah, it was special.
at that time was... It felt important.
And, yes, I think I did understand what I was doing,
who Miranda was and what she represented.
that people still occasionally,
even at this stage in my life,
recognise me
is because that image just gets shown over and over and over again.
I didn't grow up feeling... (LAUGHS) ..like I was beautiful.
I was very focused on all my flaws.
But, as I got older and started working,
I became aware that others thought that I was beautiful.
I felt incredibly self-conscious and shy, you know?
I felt uncomfortable with the attention and with the gaze.
I know that Miranda is a Botticelli angel.
Picnic makes reference to the Botticelli Venus,
and, "Miranda is a Botticelli angel," or whatever that moment,
and so people after that film
were always giving me things with the Botticelli Venus on them -
everything from tea towels to statues.
And when I finally saw her at the gallery in Florence...
..I just...
..I stood opposite...you know, on the other side of the room
..I stood opposite...you know, and I just felt terribly...
..I don't know, sad for her or something.
You know, she's like... she's got these sad eyes
You know, she's like... as though she's been carrying
the projections and the fantasies and the expectations of people
for hundreds of years... (LAUGHS)
..you know, and she just looks tired.
I felt really moved by it.
And, you know, in my minuscule kind of version of that,
And, you know, in my minuscule you know, I knew what that was like.
INTERVIEWER: When did you think to yourself,
"Oh, this whole beauty thing is just bullshit"?
It wasn't even particularly around beauty.
It was more just around the powerlessness
and the time-wasting of being an actor.
and the time-wasting I guess I'd had enough of that
and I didn't want it I guess I'd had enough of that
and I didn't want it to be all about me all the time,
I didn't want it to be in focus -
says she, staring down the barrel of the camera.
says she, staring down But, yeah, um...
And so I became a psychotherapist.
When I started working as a psychotherapist,
I actually started mostly working with creative people,
and then often the issue of addiction came up.
And so I started to focus and specialise in addiction.
And then, underneath addiction is... and specialise in addiction.
And then, underneath addiction is...
..almost always trauma.
And so I specialised and started working with trauma.
At times, I think, particularly now working with young women a lot
At times, I think, particularly now with all kinds of anxiety issues
and body dysmorphia and eating with all kinds of anxiety issues
and body dysmorphia and eating disorders and self-esteem issues...
..um, who are often sitting opposite me
looking, you know, just gloriously, youthfully beautiful,
looking, you know, just gloriously, just naturally beautiful,
um...but somehow thinking just naturally beautiful,
um...but somehow thinking they're not enough
or they're not perfect enough or they're not...
..you know, their teeth aren't white enough
or their lips aren't big enough or their breasts aren't big enough
or whatever.
Or they're not thin enough - that's the big one.
They're looking for their value in somebody else's eyes.
I wish that every...every woman, every young man,
would look at their strengths, look at their gifts,
look at their character, strengths and virtues, as they say.
And we grow self-esteem by doing estimable things.
You know, it's...it's...
It's the doing of it, you know?
Becoming our own person.
That's what's important.
It is no accident that I found my way here.
It is no accident It's hours from everywhere.
I just love this place. It's hours from everywhere.
I just love this place. Talk about beauty.
I just love this place. I have to drive down, often, to work,
and every single time that I drive,
it's...it's always different and it's always beautiful.
And I haven't gotten used to it.
It's like, "Oh, my God, And I haven't gotten used to it.
It's like, "Oh, my God, look at that mountain!"
(LAUGHS) Or, "Look at that light through the trees,"
or the mist or the snake on the road
or, you know, the dingo or the whatever.
It's just beauty everywhere,
and I feel drenched in it.
On some level, I think,
there's nothing bullshit about beauty.
I mean, beauty is beauty is beauty.
Nobody ever says, "That's not a very beautiful rainbow."
Nobody ever says, "That's not There are different kinds of beauty,
and I think that's what's important to sort of understand,
particularly as you age or change.
And also to understand that our true value lies...
..in here, it's inside us.
You know? That's where the...
..where the preciousness is.
Mm.
INTERVIEWER: Whenever you feel like it, you can start.
OK. Just look straight into the camera.
I just don't know where to begin, to be honest.
There's something I want to tell you.
I'm constantly asked, "Where are you from?"
I'm constantly asked, Especially when I was younger,
people would always ask me that question,
and I didn't understand at the time
why I felt so uncomfortable and I didn't understand at the time
why I felt so uncomfortable or just a bit weird about it.
When people ask you, "Where are you from?" why I felt so uncomfortable or just a bit weird about it.
When people ask you, "Where are you from?"
it makes you feel like you don't belong here.
You are asked that question every day.
You are asked that question In every situation, wherever you are,
people are asking you In every situation, wherever you are,
people are asking you where you belong.
So, eventually, I started asking other people
about their experience with the question, "Where are you from?"
about their experience with And it was really interesting for me
because I set out And it was really interesting for me
because I set out kind of on a personal mission
to have context for the years of encounters with that question
and all those mixed emotions that came up
when somebody asked me that question, "Where are you from?"
It kind of brings up a lot of feelings for people.
It makes you feel like YOU don't even know where you belong.
When someone asks me where I'm from,
I feel, like, the heat rise to my cheeks When someone asks me where I'm from,
I feel, like, the heat rise to my cheeks
because it's just so infuriating
and it makes me really, really angry.
Every time I'm asked that question, it's...
..it's like, "Do I want to deal with this?
"Do I even want to think right now?" "Do I want to deal with this?
"Do I even want to think right now?"
What happens next could be terrifying.
Or it could be really good, you know? I don't know.
If someone waltzes up to me and says, "Where are you from?"
and I say, "I'm from Western Sydney"...
Then people would say, "No, but, like, where are you REALLY from?
"Like, where are you FROM?" like, where are you REALLY from?
"Like, where are you FROM?"
When people ask and don't get the answer that they want,
they'll keep hounding
and they'll keep pressing and they'll keep going.
I say that I'm from Coburg North, every single time. and they'll keep pressing and they'll keep going.
I say that I'm from Coburg North, every single time.
And they'll say, "Oh, but what about before that?"
And I'll say, "Oh, well, I was born in Colombia."
And they say, "Oh. I was born in Colombia."
And they say, "Oh.
"But I thought people from Colombia
"were, like, a lot lighter."
slave trade happened."
And I'll say, "The transatlantic slave trade happened."
And they'll be like, "Oh." slave trade happened."
And they'll be like, "Oh."
It makes me feel as though I don't belong here
because I'm not white or white-passing.
It makes me feel as though I'm not "normal"
It makes me feel as though or...I don't look
the way I'm supposed to look.
I think, often, when people ask, "Where are you from?" the way I'm supposed to look.
I think, often, when people ask, "Where are you from?"
they're really just asking me, "Why are you black?"
I remember when I was in kindergarten, there was this girl
who always used to just address me as 'black boy',
and, so, often when people waltz up to me
and, you know, say, "Where are you from?" or something like that,
it...it...it feels like they're doing the same thing
because that's all that they're seeing.
Why is there an assumption that to belong in Australia
that you should be white?
You know, the first people here were black people.
Would you walk up to a Caucasian person
Would you walk up and ask them, "Where are you from?"
I'm not ashamed of my heritage and ask them, "Where are you from?"
I'm not ashamed of my heritage or the mix of culture in my family.
I'm not ashamed of my heritage I think that makes me really special.
Everyone I've spoken to knows that and believes that.
I think that there's been a shift
in the attitudes of a lot of my friends and family
in the attitudes who have this shared experience.
I think that for my mum and her siblings
I think that for my mum it was more a matter of survival
and, you know, it was more a matter of survival
and, you know, coming to a new country
and trying to establish yourself and keep your family safe.
You just had to suck it up and deal with it and answer it.
You just had to suck it up For our generation,
I think this, like, overarching feeling of exhaustion
has kind of pushed us to be more combative.
And I think that everybody's sick of it.
The only good experience I have
when it comes to my cultural The only good experience I have
when it comes to my cultural heritage being in question
when it comes to my cultural is with other people of colour.
Like, this is a part of our experience
Like, this is that we've had from childhood.
For example, this happens to me in Ubers a lot.
If the driver is...
..an Indian person and they ask me where I'm from,
..an Indian person I know that's coming from a place
of wanting to, like, have this, like, shared connection.
And I actually find those moments really heart-warming
And I actually find those moments and they make me really happy.
So, context definitely matters, for sure.
Whenever other people, particularly other Asian people, approach me, So, context definitely matters, for sure.
Whenever other people, particularly other Asian people, approach me,
I know that they only, only want to find out
if we can speak the same language or if we eat the same types of food,
if we really fucking love chilli or anything.
Oh, sorry. Can I say that?
My least favourite encounter with, "Where are you from?"
My least favourite encounter is the guessing game,
when people say, "Oh, OK, are you Spanish?"
Or "Are you... You look kind of like Native American."
It dehumanises you having somebody pull apart your features,
features that you got from your family,
features that you got features that you see in your family,
and you thought that that made you features that you see in your family,
and you thought that that made you belong with them
and belong where you were raised.
I've started telling people that I'm Irish
just for...just for... just for a giggle,
just to see what their response is.
And, oftentimes, people would be taken aback
and they would be like, "Oh! Whereabouts in Ireland?"
And I'll, with the worst possible Irish accent, say,
(IRISH ACCENT) "Oh, I'm just from Dublin." (LAUGHS)
Asking someone, "Where are you from?"
Asking someone, doesn't always have to be bad.
It doesn't make you a terrible person.
But it's just all about the context.
I think, if I were to share a hot tip
about how to have discussions about where someone's from,
about how to have discussions probably the most important thing
is to...to work your way into it
and don't just...
..don't just come at someone asking that question straight up.
..don't just come at someone And I also wouldn't ask it
so that you can talk about your, like, six-month trip to India.
There's just so much you can talk about
There's just so much without having to touch on something
that makes the other person feel different to you.
I find that, when I'm comfortable around people,
I find that, I'll just tell them.
When I like them, then I'll tell them, you know?
When I like them, "Where are YOU from?"
Welcome to The Kastle!
My truth
is that I keep other people's secrets.
When people step through the door as our clients,
they're stepping into an alternative reality,
they're stepping into because they do things here
that the ordinary person in the street might not understand.
We close the door, and then they're in the safe zone.
What happens in The Kastle stays in The Kastle. It always has.
Here is our cross-dressing suite. We call it the Pussy Parlour.
So, we have everything in here for the well-dressed cross-dresser.
Wigs, shoes, lingerie, make-up - you name it, we've got it.
Wigs, shoes, lingerie, make-up - We have shoes up to size 15.
The Kastle is Sydney's only legal house
of bondage, discipline, cross-dressing, fetish, fantasy,
and we've been here for 35, 36 years,
and we cater to everything and we've been here for 35, 36 years,
and we cater to everything that's kinky, different, unusual
or could be considered alternative erotica.
The Kastle's designed to be a secret world.
We keep everybody here private
so they don't run into anybody else.
When they leave here,
they can just leave here and it didn't happen.
The people that come here have an itch that needs to be scratched.
We've had politicians, judges, students, bus drivers, travellers.
We've had politicians, judges, We've had transgender people.
Some are so old, um...
..we have to practically Some are so old, um...
..we have to practically help them up the stairs.
It's always interesting to me how multifaceted people are.
The things that people do here are usually endlessly interesting.
You know, I mean, the most ordinary-looking person
You know, I mean, can sit here in the client's chair
and tell you the most hair-raising story,
and tell you and you go, "Wow!"
So, over here we have stocks.
You've seen them in the village square.
You've seen them We have all kinds of implements here
to cater for all sessions, from mild to wild.
to cater for all sessions, So, we've got a cat of nine tails.
We've got ropes there. So, we've got a cat of nine tails.
We've got ropes there. We've got cuffs.
We have a sling, which is a lot of fun.
You haven't really lived until you've had a swing in the sling.
Consent has always been synonymous with the BDSM scene around the world,
and what it means is that we negotiate the activities
and what it means before any activities begin.
We tell the clients at least twice before they go into the dungeon
that the safe word is 'mercy'.
Nothing is done to anybody against their will,
because the safe word's always respected here, and people know that.
And this is The Kastle Klinic.
We have regulation straitjacket
for any unruly...patients.
We have speculums and proctoscopes in all sizes.
We like to lay them down if they're that way inclined
We like to lay them down and give them a thorough check-up.
I think destiny brought me here.
Spending years in Brisbane, which I didn't like at all,
I really was looking to broaden my horizons.
So, I was probably about 16.
I'd had enough and I went out on the highway and hitchhiked south.
I had always wanted to go to Kings Cross
because it was really jumping at that time.
because it was really jumping The lights and the excitement.
And I got a job, stripped in the Cross
and kicked on from there.
The first time I had sex for money, I thought, "Wow! This is fantastic."
I guess I just had the right personality for it, whatever that is.
As luck would have it,
I met the notorious Madame Lash
quite soon after I got to Sydney.
I was fascinated by the world of S&M
that she was representing in a kind of theatrical, arty, onstage way,
and that's where my fascination for B&D started
and that's where my fascination and continues to this day.
My years running around naked or half-naked in hotel rooms
and doing shows with Madame Lash and crazy things around the place
came to an end because something happened.
So, one night, after running around,
um...drinking and carrying on So, one night, after running around,
um...drinking and carrying on and taking drugs, I...
..caused a fire to happen in my bedroom
..caused a fire as I was passed out drunk.
I was in hospital for close to a year, and...
..with...
..60% third-degree burns.
And these are the scars that I received in the fire.
I realised that, with scars all over me,
I had to find a new form of income -
something where I had to keep my clothes on.
And then, as luck would have it,
I ran into a lady And then, as luck would have it,
I ran into a lady and told her my story
I ran into a lady and she said,
"Have you ever thought about being a dominatrix?"
And I said, "Oh, I would love to be a dominatrix,
And I said, "Oh, I would love "but I can't take my clothes off."
And she said, "Hey, listen,
"I'm a dominatrix and I don't take my clothes off."
"I'm a dominatrix I thought, "Yeah, I could do that."
Being a dominatrix is so different from being a callgirl.
It's a form of self-expression and it's artistic.
It's like each session is a production.
I used to say it's like being on a magic carpet
and you get on the carpet with the person you're sessioning with
and the mistress has to take it for a ride.
And so she's the actress and she's the producer
and she's the musical director and the costume person
and she's the musical director and all of that.
And then she has to bring it and all of that.
And then she has to bring it back down to a safe landing.
And then she has to bring it So, it's theatre and it's compassion
and it's listening and it's interpreting
and it's being empathetic with the person.
and it's being empathetic And I just love it.
I feel really honoured, really, that they trust us enough to open up.
I don't recognise them in the street, even if I recognise them.
I don't recognise them in the street, So, yeah, the secrets stay with me
and the secrets So, yeah, the secrets stay with me
and the secrets come to my grave with me.
I want to do some truth-telling.
Which might explain how my songwriting has changed
over the last three to four years.
You know, when I write now, I'm very aware of where I am.
I have a really conscious sense of the physicality of the world I'm in.
It began when I...
..went to Ireland
to repair my relationship with my brother.
And that kind of came into focus because my father was dying,
so there was a lot of emotional crosscurrents.
But when I got there, we deci...
He took me around the countryside But when I got there, we deci...
He took me around the countryside near where he lives
He took me around the countryside and we just went and looked at ruins.
I had no expectations,
didn't really understand what I was looking at.
But gradually, as time went by, it became apparent to me
that Ireland completely embraces its history.
that Ireland completely They want the people in that country
to understand where they've come from and how long the story is.
And I started to think about what I feel about Australia
and what my consciousness of history was when I was a kid,
and some of the things my father said to me
and some of the things about trying to explain the world.
And the fact that there was about trying to explain the world.
And the fact that there was a blind spot in our early childhood
And the fact that there was about Indigenous history
and about white Australia's relationship
with the people who had been removed from the land...
..really shocked me.
I came to the conclusion that I have a direct personal stake
I came to the conclusion in the current outcome -
like, a direct relationship
between me living here now
and my ancestors arriving here in 1850.
You know, the fact that people were killed to clear land
is...it's public information, it's there.
is...it's public information, And either we talk about it
or we don't talk about it,
Regardless of what our race is.
And it needs to be discussed.
You know, it's critical.
I'm part of that. I'm not separate from it.
You know, I look back on that now and I...that is just staggering.
That's an enormous...
..disconnection.
It's so powerful, you know?
But, at the same time, I don't live that experience.
I'm not Indigenous. I don't have that experience.
I'm more connected with their anger.
Like, I get it.
You know, it's pretty appalling.
You would have to live with it, accept it and grow up with it
You would have to live with it, and it would never leave you.
You know?
Gradually, all of this experience
brought me back to making a record.
Slow Dawn, it's really brought me back to making a record.
Slow Dawn, it's really about my consciousness.
That's what that song is about - my shift.
I couldn't have written that song... probably not even a year ago.
10 years ago, it would have been out of the question.
If somebody asks me what that song is about, I'm going to tell them.
But it's written from a white man's perspective.
I'm not trying to characterise someone
who had a different experience to me.
It's about where I come from, what my consciousness is, quite distinctly,
the intense feeling of discomfort and shame attached to that.
You know, I can't be clearer than that.
But I...I mean, silence is not an option.
Simple as that.
I never imagined anyone actually asking me what this song was about,
I never imagined anyone actually you know?
And here I am talking about it.
I'm not sure I've got the answer, but it's the truth.
My good friend Cameron McKenzie
accompanying me on the acoustic guitar.
accompanying me This is called Slow Dawn.
(PLAYS GENTLE MELODY)
(SINGS) # Broken country
# Where the cattle sniff the ground
# The north wind was blowing
# The day the bones were found
# Hidden in the ashes
# For any fool to see
# Oh, Lord
# But there's a shadow over me
# People started talking
# Of some kind of killing ground
# They tried to keep it quiet
# But things got written down
# Murder and mayhem
# Some secret memory
# Oh, Lord
# But there's a shadow over me
# Slow dawn's rising
# Where the red dirt meets the sky
# I walk the empty riverbed
# Where the little white bones lie
# And out along the frontier
# Any fool can see
BOTH: # Slow dawn's rising
# And it's rolling over me
# Rolling over me
# There are many secret places
# "Don't go down there," Daddy said
# Playing in the ashes
# On that empty riverbed
# But I remember shadows dancing
# So wild and free
# Oh, Lord
# But there's a shadow over me
# Voices singing in the mist
# They whisper in my heart
# There's a hungry mob on the edge of town
# There's a hungry mob # They were trouble from the start
# The leaky shacks, the Southern Cross
# And the middens by the sea
# Slow dawn's rising
# And it's rolling over me
# Rolling over me
# Rolling over me, yeah
# Rolling over me. #
(BIRDS TWITTER)
WOMAN: My biggest memory is this idea that somehow my family didn't fit in.
WOMAN 2: There was a surprising amount of controversy.
Lots of religious figures going on TV
and saying I should never have been born.
MAN: When you're young, you just assume
that your parents are all-powerful and will remain all-powerful.
Captions by Red Bee Media
Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation