1 00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:04,260 (WHISPERING VOICES OVERLAP) 2 00:00:08,180 --> 00:00:10,420 (CHILD LAUGHS) 3 00:00:10,420 --> 00:00:12,500 (WOMAN LAUGHS) 4 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:16,060 (WHISPERING VOICES OVERLAP) 5 00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:29,620 WOMAN: My biggest memory is this idea that somehow my family didn't fit in. 6 00:00:31,140 --> 00:00:33,700 WOMAN: There was a surprising amount of controversy. 7 00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:35,860 Lots of religious figures going on TV 8 00:00:35,860 --> 00:00:38,220 and saying I should never have been born. 9 00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:40,020 MAN: When you're young, you just assume 10 00:00:40,020 --> 00:00:43,260 that your parents are all-powerful and will remain all-powerful. 11 00:00:45,740 --> 00:00:48,340 BOY: I felt really relieved once I was able to let it out 12 00:00:48,340 --> 00:00:51,020 and just tell her that something wasn't feeling right. 13 00:01:27,580 --> 00:01:30,980 How do you sit on a stool with good posture? 14 00:01:33,020 --> 00:01:35,260 Your turn. OK. 15 00:01:35,260 --> 00:01:38,580 I'm going to roll all the dice there. 16 00:01:38,580 --> 00:01:41,580 I always thought that Karma would be the perfect mother, 17 00:01:41,580 --> 00:01:41,860 and the idea of having children never really appealed to me I always thought that Karma would be the perfect mother, 18 00:01:41,860 --> 00:01:45,740 and the idea of having children never really appealed to me 19 00:01:45,740 --> 00:01:45,980 and the idea of having children until I was with Karma. 20 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:47,380 until I was with Karma. 21 00:01:47,380 --> 00:01:47,620 until I was with Karma. Do you remember that first day on the tram? 22 00:01:47,620 --> 00:01:51,180 Do you remember that first day on the tram? 23 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:54,980 Yes, I do. It's very, very memorable. 24 00:01:54,980 --> 00:01:58,100 Because you were wearing a long black trench coat 25 00:01:58,100 --> 00:01:58,340 Because you were wearing (LAUGHS) It was a phase, OK? 26 00:01:58,340 --> 00:01:59,340 (LAUGHS) It was a phase, OK? 27 00:01:59,340 --> 00:01:59,580 And you still had red hair, (LAUGHS) It was a phase, OK? 28 00:01:59,580 --> 00:02:00,740 And you still had red hair, of course. 29 00:02:00,740 --> 00:02:00,980 And you still had red hair, Mm. 30 00:02:00,980 --> 00:02:02,140 Mm. 31 00:02:02,140 --> 00:02:04,380 Yeah, so I can definitely remember you. 32 00:02:04,380 --> 00:02:07,100 I remember you being a little bit awkward and very, very cute. 33 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:09,220 (LAUGHS) And we didn't get to talk much 34 00:02:09,220 --> 00:02:12,100 because you pretty much had to jump off the tram straightaway. 35 00:02:14,620 --> 00:02:18,140 I actually can't remember the very first conversation 36 00:02:18,140 --> 00:02:18,380 I actually can't remember about having children. 37 00:02:18,380 --> 00:02:19,980 about having children. 38 00:02:19,980 --> 00:02:20,220 But I think it was probably me about having children. 39 00:02:20,220 --> 00:02:23,060 But I think it was probably me who brought it up. 40 00:02:23,060 --> 00:02:23,300 But I think it was probably me I am going to also play a bird. 41 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:25,540 I am going to also play a bird. 42 00:02:25,540 --> 00:02:28,020 Ooh! Picked that one up from... How does that actually work? 43 00:02:28,020 --> 00:02:29,540 So, I think it just adds up all the little... 44 00:02:29,540 --> 00:02:31,460 One of the things about lesbian relationships 45 00:02:31,460 --> 00:02:33,780 is that you have to decide who is going to carry the children. 46 00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:36,380 Like, in a straight relationship it's pretty obvious. 47 00:02:36,380 --> 00:02:40,220 Uh, but for us, we decided to work it out by rock, paper, scissors. 48 00:02:42,100 --> 00:02:47,060 Karma and I fell in love with what we thought of as our kids 49 00:02:47,060 --> 00:02:50,460 when they showed us on the... the blastocyst on the screen. 50 00:02:50,460 --> 00:02:55,020 'Cause before they inject you with the blastocyst 51 00:02:55,020 --> 00:02:58,500 they now have a little camera on the microscope. 52 00:02:58,500 --> 00:03:01,740 There's this big screen and you see it, 53 00:03:01,740 --> 00:03:08,540 and in that one tiny cell are all your dreams for your family. 54 00:03:09,860 --> 00:03:15,140 I was ridiculously overconfident going into IVF. 55 00:03:15,140 --> 00:03:15,380 I was ridiculously overconfident I felt like I knew everything 56 00:03:15,380 --> 00:03:18,100 I felt like I knew everything 57 00:03:18,100 --> 00:03:18,340 and like I knew I felt like I knew everything 58 00:03:18,340 --> 00:03:21,140 and like I knew exactly what to expect 59 00:03:21,140 --> 00:03:23,300 and exactly how it was all gonna happen. 60 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:28,340 I was the first IVF surrogate kid to be born in Australia 61 00:03:28,340 --> 00:03:28,580 I was the first IVF surrogate kid and the second in the world. 62 00:03:28,580 --> 00:03:29,820 and the second in the world. 63 00:03:29,820 --> 00:03:30,060 Like, I'd been talking about IVF and the second in the world. 64 00:03:30,060 --> 00:03:33,500 Like, I'd been talking about IVF since I could talk. 65 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:33,740 Like, I'd been talking about IVF REPORTER: Alice Kirkman's life 66 00:03:33,740 --> 00:03:35,180 REPORTER: Alice Kirkman's life 67 00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:37,420 has been a public one from the beginning. 68 00:03:37,420 --> 00:03:39,940 She was born after Maggie Kirkman's sister Linda 69 00:03:39,940 --> 00:03:42,540 carried her for Maggie, who was unable to have children. 70 00:03:42,540 --> 00:03:45,780 That broke new ground in the IVF field, 71 00:03:45,780 --> 00:03:49,740 and caused legal debate over who was the actual mother. 72 00:03:49,740 --> 00:03:52,260 WOMAN: When I had the hysterectomy at 30, 73 00:03:52,260 --> 00:03:55,180 when fibroids were discovered, 74 00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:56,660 I was absolutely devastated. 75 00:03:56,660 --> 00:03:59,820 I'd lay in hospital feeling that my life was over, 76 00:03:59,820 --> 00:04:00,060 I'd lay in hospital feeling that my life was over, and I got quite depressed. 77 00:04:00,060 --> 00:04:02,020 and I got quite depressed. 78 00:04:02,020 --> 00:04:05,700 But I began to think that either my life was over 79 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:09,260 or I could work out how to live a life happily without children. 80 00:04:09,260 --> 00:04:12,140 And I worked very hard on doing that. 81 00:04:13,460 --> 00:04:17,220 It was only once Sev had suggested the possibility... 82 00:04:17,220 --> 00:04:20,740 He said, "Well, I thought... they're doing IVF 83 00:04:20,740 --> 00:04:26,500 "and they prepare an embryo - fertilise an egg in a petri dish - 84 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:26,740 "and they prepare an embryo - "and put it back in the woman. 85 00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:28,020 "and put it back in the woman. 86 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:30,140 "Why can't they put it back into another woman?" 87 00:04:30,140 --> 00:04:33,740 And I thought immediately of my sister Linda. 88 00:04:33,740 --> 00:04:36,300 We were having dinner with Linda and Jim, 89 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:38,180 had driven to stay up at their house. 90 00:04:38,180 --> 00:04:38,460 Maggie and I both opened our mouths at the same time had driven to stay up at their house. 91 00:04:38,460 --> 00:04:40,900 Maggie and I both opened our mouths at the same time 92 00:04:40,900 --> 00:04:41,140 Maggie and I both opened and I said, apropos of nothing, 93 00:04:41,140 --> 00:04:43,380 and I said, apropos of nothing, 94 00:04:43,380 --> 00:04:45,780 "I'm sorry I couldn't have a baby for you." 95 00:04:45,780 --> 00:04:46,060 "I'm sorry I couldn't have a baby for you." Because I'd thought of surrogacy as involving...as being... 96 00:04:46,060 --> 00:04:50,020 Because I'd thought of surrogacy as involving...as being... 97 00:04:51,060 --> 00:04:53,340 ..providing the egg and just the whole thing. 98 00:04:53,340 --> 00:04:55,780 And Maggie's jaw dropped, and she said, 99 00:04:55,780 --> 00:04:57,820 "We were just going to ask you." 100 00:04:57,820 --> 00:04:59,700 "I said, Well, tell me more." 101 00:04:59,700 --> 00:05:04,460 And they explained about IVF and using Maggie's egg 102 00:05:04,460 --> 00:05:06,980 and that was fine, I was cool with that. 103 00:05:06,980 --> 00:05:10,100 We've said all along that if Linda suddenly felt 104 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:11,260 that she was the baby's mother, 105 00:05:11,260 --> 00:05:14,820 we wouldn't argue about it - we would let her keep Alice. 106 00:05:14,820 --> 00:05:17,500 I've always considered myself to be her aunt, not her mother. 107 00:05:24,380 --> 00:05:26,060 ALICE: Growing up, as a teenager, 108 00:05:26,060 --> 00:05:28,820 I was very adamant that I was never gonna have children. 109 00:05:28,820 --> 00:05:29,060 I was very adamant that I was Didn't want them. 110 00:05:29,060 --> 00:05:30,300 Didn't want them. 111 00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:31,780 Because mum had always told me 112 00:05:31,780 --> 00:05:35,740 she had really wanted children her whole life, 113 00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:40,020 and her experience of infertility was shattering. 114 00:05:40,020 --> 00:05:41,860 So I was adamant, I did not want kids, 115 00:05:41,860 --> 00:05:42,100 So I was adamant, I wasn't gonna go after them, 116 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:43,460 I wasn't gonna go after them, 117 00:05:43,460 --> 00:05:46,620 because I did not want to set myself up for that kind of disappointment. 118 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:49,980 Unfortunately, plans change. 119 00:05:49,980 --> 00:05:51,740 (LAUGHS) 120 00:05:52,860 --> 00:05:58,140 Going through IVF was the hardest thing I have ever done to my body, 121 00:05:58,140 --> 00:06:01,140 because you pump your body full of hormones 122 00:06:01,140 --> 00:06:01,380 because you pump your body to make it think it's pregnant, 123 00:06:01,380 --> 00:06:03,900 to make it think it's pregnant, 124 00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:05,740 and you have to act like you're pregnant, 125 00:06:05,740 --> 00:06:08,260 and you have to keep taking medication. 126 00:06:08,260 --> 00:06:09,820 And so you just start talking into it - 127 00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:13,500 you start holding your belly, you feel like you're pregnant, 128 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:13,740 you start holding your belly, and then... 129 00:06:13,740 --> 00:06:15,740 and then... 130 00:06:15,740 --> 00:06:18,140 ..you get your period... 131 00:06:18,140 --> 00:06:20,580 ..and then... 132 00:06:20,580 --> 00:06:21,660 ..it dies. 133 00:06:21,660 --> 00:06:24,140 And you can't get that back. 134 00:06:24,140 --> 00:06:26,060 And that sucks. 135 00:06:26,060 --> 00:06:29,940 And so, yeah, that grief is very real and it doesn't go away. 136 00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:31,340 Just gets better. 137 00:06:32,860 --> 00:06:34,420 Sorry, I need one sec. 138 00:06:37,060 --> 00:06:41,420 And all while this is going on, you're depleting all of your savings, 139 00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:45,420 'cause the clinics charge what they think you're willing to pay 140 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:48,580 and, obviously, if you're trying to have a family 141 00:06:48,580 --> 00:06:53,140 you are willing to pay absolutely anything so you can get that baby. 142 00:06:53,140 --> 00:06:57,340 But we budgeted a certain amount of money for us to do IVF, 143 00:06:57,340 --> 00:07:00,060 and we ran out of that money. 144 00:07:00,060 --> 00:07:02,740 I haven't been given any reason why I haven't been able to get pregnant. 145 00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:04,980 There's nothing physically wrong with me. 146 00:07:04,980 --> 00:07:07,940 Sometimes you just don't get pregnant, and it takes a while. 147 00:07:07,940 --> 00:07:12,180 Uh, maybe my eggs aren't good, maybe the sperm we chose wasn't good. 148 00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:17,060 It hurts a lot, both emotionally and physically, 149 00:07:17,060 --> 00:07:20,580 and it takes years to get past if it doesn't work. 150 00:07:20,580 --> 00:07:20,820 and it takes years to get past (PLAYS BEAT) 151 00:07:20,820 --> 00:07:24,860 (PLAYS BEAT) 152 00:07:26,220 --> 00:07:29,620 When you start IVF, you have to set yourself up to be OK 153 00:07:29,620 --> 00:07:32,140 to come out of the process with nothing. 154 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:33,420 And at the end of that process 155 00:07:33,420 --> 00:07:37,420 you have to be able to find a way to be child-free, not childless, 156 00:07:37,420 --> 00:07:40,980 because this does not work for everyone. 157 00:07:40,980 --> 00:07:43,300 And you have to have a plan B. 158 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:46,700 Shall we go around by order of age? 159 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:48,100 (KARMA LAUGHS) 160 00:07:48,100 --> 00:07:50,540 So I should...? The youngest first? (CHUCKLES) 161 00:07:50,540 --> 00:07:51,980 So, I think Dad can go first. 162 00:07:52,980 --> 00:07:57,740 So, we are currently three years post-IVF 163 00:07:57,740 --> 00:08:02,620 and at the 'buy a really nice apartment that children would ruin' 164 00:08:02,620 --> 00:08:05,900 and 'go out to restaurants and travel whenever we feel like it' 165 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:09,380 part of the journey of being child-free. 166 00:08:09,380 --> 00:08:13,220 We oscillate between whether or not we're just gonna stay child-free 167 00:08:13,220 --> 00:08:13,460 We oscillate between whether or not or if we're gonna adopt or foster. 168 00:08:13,460 --> 00:08:15,140 or if we're gonna adopt or foster. 169 00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:19,940 But I think now we're in that exciting position 170 00:08:19,940 --> 00:08:23,700 where we get to choose what our family will look like 171 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:26,220 and choose what our... who will be in our family. 172 00:08:26,220 --> 00:08:28,460 (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) (MAGGIE LAUGHS) 173 00:08:47,460 --> 00:08:49,820 How's that? Shirt OK? Not wrinkled. 174 00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:51,260 INTERVIEWER: No, that looks good. 175 00:08:51,260 --> 00:08:53,220 Eyeline OK? Yeah. 176 00:08:54,740 --> 00:09:01,060 It's an interesting question when I realised Dad was famous, because... 177 00:09:02,460 --> 00:09:04,700 ..as a kid, you just think that you're normal 178 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:07,420 and that everybody's family is like that. 179 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:12,220 Couldn't have... Is that a headshot? 180 00:09:12,220 --> 00:09:13,860 No, that's my bum! 181 00:09:13,860 --> 00:09:17,540 They're almost... (LAUGHS) ..indistinguishable. 182 00:09:17,540 --> 00:09:19,740 You can't tell the difference. No, that's right. 183 00:09:19,740 --> 00:09:21,220 Who would've thought you were gonna become an actor? 184 00:09:21,220 --> 00:09:22,940 Like, me, maybe. (LAUGHS) 185 00:09:22,940 --> 00:09:23,180 Like, me, maybe. OK, good. 186 00:09:23,180 --> 00:09:24,020 OK, good. 187 00:09:24,020 --> 00:09:26,460 ('MOTHER AND SON' THEME MUSIC PLAYS) 188 00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:29,580 (HENRI WHISTLES, HUMS ALONG) 189 00:09:33,860 --> 00:09:37,060 Geoffrey Atherden. Brilliant man. 190 00:09:42,860 --> 00:09:44,820 Mum? What's wrong? 191 00:09:44,820 --> 00:09:45,060 Hello, Robbie. Mum? What's wrong? 192 00:09:45,060 --> 00:09:47,620 Hello, Robbie. (AUDIENCE LAUGHTER) 193 00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:49,580 (PROGRAM CONTINUES) (LAUGHS) 194 00:09:51,820 --> 00:09:53,340 It wasn't easy. Mm. 195 00:09:53,340 --> 00:09:53,580 It wasn't easy. It wasn't easy. But I loved it. 196 00:09:53,580 --> 00:09:55,820 It wasn't easy. But I loved it. 197 00:09:55,820 --> 00:09:57,580 I loved the challenge. 198 00:09:59,060 --> 00:10:01,460 I loved the camera, I loved the audience. 199 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:03,820 Laugh! 200 00:10:03,820 --> 00:10:05,220 (LAUGHS) 201 00:10:05,220 --> 00:10:07,380 Did that work when you'd shout at them and say, "Laugh!"? 202 00:10:07,380 --> 00:10:07,620 Did that work when you'd No. 203 00:10:07,620 --> 00:10:08,380 No. 204 00:10:08,380 --> 00:10:10,060 I've gotta go. 205 00:10:10,060 --> 00:10:11,980 Arthur had a floozy here, all night. 206 00:10:11,980 --> 00:10:13,700 (AUDIENCE LAUGHTER) 207 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:14,780 What? 208 00:10:14,780 --> 00:10:17,060 I thought you weren't going to tell anyone. 209 00:10:17,060 --> 00:10:18,980 I had to tell someone. 210 00:10:18,980 --> 00:10:21,460 Arthur? (AUDIENCE LAUGHTER) 211 00:10:21,460 --> 00:10:24,780 Had someone here? Speak to him, Robbie. 212 00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:25,020 Had someone here? Yes, Mum. I will. 213 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:26,420 Yes, Mum. I will. 214 00:10:26,420 --> 00:10:28,820 (AUDIENCE LAUGHTER) Tell him how upset I am. 215 00:10:28,820 --> 00:10:29,580 I will. 216 00:10:29,580 --> 00:10:32,140 Tell him I'm worried sick. I will. 217 00:10:32,140 --> 00:10:34,940 Now, you listen to your brother, Arthur. Hear what he says. 218 00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:36,980 I will. (AUDIENCE LAUGHTER) 219 00:10:36,980 --> 00:10:38,340 JOSH: People obviously loved the show. 220 00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:41,420 In fact, quite often, when you tell people about Mother and Son, 221 00:10:41,420 --> 00:10:41,660 In fact, quite often, when you they go, "Oh! Yeah, that's right. 222 00:10:41,660 --> 00:10:44,220 they go, "Oh! Yeah, that's right. 223 00:10:44,220 --> 00:10:47,660 "I didn't really like that show, but my mum absolutely loved it! 224 00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:49,780 "She was getting dementia, and she loved it!" 225 00:10:51,380 --> 00:10:54,860 Dad has dementia - technically Alzheimer's. 226 00:10:54,860 --> 00:10:58,140 For us, it's about understanding how to support him 227 00:10:58,140 --> 00:11:02,340 and, most of all, really, to support Mum in her support of him, 228 00:11:02,340 --> 00:11:05,660 so that we can sustain a normal life for all of us 229 00:11:05,660 --> 00:11:05,900 so that we can sustain as long as is humanly possible. 230 00:11:05,900 --> 00:11:08,140 as long as is humanly possible. 231 00:11:08,140 --> 00:11:10,580 I...I don't have any dementia. 232 00:11:10,580 --> 00:11:12,020 Do you...do you have...? 233 00:11:12,020 --> 00:11:13,220 Do I have...? Do you...? 234 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:13,460 Do you think...? What? Do I have...? Do you...? 235 00:11:13,460 --> 00:11:15,340 Do you think...? What? I mean, do you...? 236 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:20,580 I don't know. I refuse to hide behind it. 237 00:11:21,740 --> 00:11:23,140 It's there. 238 00:11:23,140 --> 00:11:28,940 And all I can say is all's well that ends well. 239 00:11:28,940 --> 00:11:29,180 And all I can say is And I just thank God 240 00:11:29,180 --> 00:11:31,820 And I just thank God 241 00:11:31,820 --> 00:11:37,260 for all the good and all the crap that I've gone through, 242 00:11:37,260 --> 00:11:37,500 for all the good and all the crap 'cause it's really, really worth it. 243 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:39,740 'cause it's really, really worth it. 244 00:11:42,980 --> 00:11:46,660 Oh, God, the gear I had. 245 00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:48,740 I mean, see, arms... Talk about a double-breasted suit. 246 00:11:50,220 --> 00:11:53,300 Does that look like a refo, or what? 247 00:11:53,300 --> 00:11:55,060 I'm not a refo! I think it's cute. 248 00:11:56,380 --> 00:11:59,340 Dad was born in a refugee camp in Switzerland 249 00:11:59,340 --> 00:11:59,580 Dad was born in a refugee camp and then raised by a foster family 250 00:11:59,580 --> 00:12:02,180 and then raised by a foster family 251 00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:02,420 and then sent back and then raised by a foster family 252 00:12:02,420 --> 00:12:04,660 and then sent back to his mother in Paris, 253 00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:06,500 and then his mother had to come on a train 254 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:08,820 and physically take him from the Swiss foster family 255 00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:09,060 and physically take him and ultimately come to Australia 256 00:12:09,060 --> 00:12:10,540 and ultimately come to Australia 257 00:12:10,540 --> 00:12:10,780 as part of that wave and ultimately come to Australia 258 00:12:10,780 --> 00:12:13,620 as part of that wave of post-war migrants 259 00:12:13,620 --> 00:12:17,540 and live out the traditional Australian migrant story 260 00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:20,900 of getting a little convenience store and making a go of it. 261 00:12:22,340 --> 00:12:25,420 We all went to Auschwitz a few years ago. 262 00:12:25,420 --> 00:12:27,060 It was something that dad wanted to do. 263 00:12:27,060 --> 00:12:30,420 And to think about the impact that that had 264 00:12:30,420 --> 00:12:34,140 on all of Dad's mum's family and aunts and uncles and everyone 265 00:12:34,140 --> 00:12:39,060 who were all incinerated and shovelled into mass graves, 266 00:12:39,060 --> 00:12:44,740 and then to see what Dad has created from nothing, 267 00:12:44,740 --> 00:12:48,660 not just materially nothing but emotionally nothing... 268 00:12:50,060 --> 00:12:54,900 Dad has never used that as something to wear on his sleeve. 269 00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:59,180 For him, what you do with your life is up to you. 270 00:12:59,180 --> 00:13:01,420 So we didn't spend a lot of time in the household 271 00:13:01,420 --> 00:13:03,100 talking about Dad's youth, 272 00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:07,620 whining and complaining about the Holocaust or being refugees. 273 00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:09,580 He took it as a fact of life. 274 00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:15,900 Good morning. It's Saturday, 26 October. I'm Johanna Nicholson. 275 00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:18,220 I'm Josh Szeps. You're watching Weekend Breakfast. 276 00:13:18,220 --> 00:13:18,460 I'm Josh Szeps. Also coming up... 277 00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:19,260 Also coming up... 278 00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:23,660 I'm a journalist, humourist, broadcaster, 279 00:13:23,660 --> 00:13:25,020 ne'er-do-well, man about town. 280 00:13:25,020 --> 00:13:26,620 Prime Minister Scott Morrison has... 281 00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:30,580 I don't think Dad's being famous had an impact on me. I really don't. 282 00:13:30,580 --> 00:13:32,740 I think that his creativity had an impact on me. 283 00:13:32,740 --> 00:13:35,260 I think his artistic passion had an impact on me. 284 00:13:35,260 --> 00:13:40,580 But fame per se was not something that we were trained to pursue. 285 00:13:40,580 --> 00:13:42,820 MARY ANNE SZEPS: Ooh! Oh, lovely. Thank you. 286 00:13:42,820 --> 00:13:44,060 Lovely. HENRI: Isn't that... 287 00:13:44,060 --> 00:13:44,300 Lovely. WAITRESS: OK, the Bar Italia? 288 00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:45,500 WAITRESS: OK, the Bar Italia? 289 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:47,020 That's mine. That's... 290 00:13:47,020 --> 00:13:49,060 Oh, Bar Italia's there, sorry. Chicken's here. 291 00:13:49,060 --> 00:13:49,300 Oh, Bar Italia's there, sorry. But it was an amazing play, Henri. 292 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:51,660 But it was an amazing play, Henri. 293 00:13:51,660 --> 00:13:54,500 It was really revolutionary, wasn't it? 294 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:54,740 It was really revolutionary, But how the hell did I get into it? 295 00:13:54,740 --> 00:13:56,500 But how the hell did I get into it? 296 00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:57,780 (LAUGHS) 297 00:13:57,780 --> 00:14:00,020 You know? 298 00:14:00,020 --> 00:14:02,020 You had an agent and you auditioned. 299 00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:04,580 I think it's because I was Jewish. (BOTH CHUCKLE) 300 00:14:04,580 --> 00:14:04,820 I think it's because I was Jewish. And they needed a Jewish actor. 301 00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:07,020 And they needed a Jewish actor. 302 00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:08,900 And they looked at the schnoz 303 00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:10,820 and they thought, "Oh! Ooh, this is good." 304 00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:15,380 What's amazing about Dad is that, even as he begins to get Alzheimer's, 305 00:14:15,380 --> 00:14:15,620 What's amazing about Dad is that, he is the biggest barrel of laughs, 306 00:14:15,620 --> 00:14:18,540 he is the biggest barrel of laughs, 307 00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:18,780 and makes fun of himself he is the biggest barrel of laughs, 308 00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:20,660 and makes fun of himself constantly about it. 309 00:14:20,660 --> 00:14:20,900 and makes fun of himself He makes fun of his forgetfulness. 310 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:22,660 He makes fun of his forgetfulness. 311 00:14:22,660 --> 00:14:26,700 And his main focus is always on what is beautiful 312 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:30,500 and...and to be delighted in in the here and now. 313 00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:32,020 I think you're supposed to have a spoon 314 00:14:32,020 --> 00:14:32,860 and I'm supposed to have a knife, 315 00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:34,700 'cause I'm not gonna eat a piece of chicken with a spoon - 316 00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:34,940 'cause I'm not gonna eat it's not gonna happen. (LAUGHS) 317 00:14:34,940 --> 00:14:36,140 it's not gonna happen. (LAUGHS) 318 00:14:36,140 --> 00:14:39,140 Well, what do you do with this? 319 00:14:39,140 --> 00:14:41,100 (ALL LAUGH) 320 00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:44,100 Welcome to the pirate ship, Father. 321 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:45,900 Welcome to the pirate ship. (PIRATE VOICE) Arrrr. 322 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:46,140 Welcome to the pirate ship. Arrrr, Jim lad. Arrrr. 323 00:14:46,140 --> 00:14:47,980 Arrrr, Jim lad. Arrrr. 324 00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:55,900 I feel enormous warmth and tenderness, and strength, from Dad. 325 00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:58,540 A lot of warmth and tenderness from my mother. 326 00:14:58,540 --> 00:15:02,460 Dad was a more complicated father figure. 327 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:06,940 He was a very alpha-male, like, old-school kind of new Australian 328 00:15:06,940 --> 00:15:07,180 He was a very alpha-male, like, who had his way of doing things 329 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:08,820 who had his way of doing things 330 00:15:08,820 --> 00:15:11,380 and just loved us to bits through all of that, 331 00:15:11,380 --> 00:15:11,620 and just loved us to bits but there was a time for fun 332 00:15:11,620 --> 00:15:14,060 but there was a time for fun 333 00:15:14,060 --> 00:15:17,140 and then there was a time for seriousness and learning 334 00:15:17,140 --> 00:15:19,740 and grand philosophical thinking around the dinner table too. 335 00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:23,220 MARY ANNE: Hello! 336 00:15:23,220 --> 00:15:24,660 JOSH: Hello, hello, hello! 337 00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:24,900 Hello. JOSH: Hello, hello, hello! 338 00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:26,380 Hello. Heya. 339 00:15:26,380 --> 00:15:28,700 Hello, hello, hello, hello. (CHUCKLES) Hey! 340 00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:28,940 Hello, hello, hello, hello. Yeah. Oh! What do I have to pay? 341 00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:31,180 Yeah. Oh! What do I have to pay? 342 00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:33,180 What do I have to pay for this head massage? 343 00:15:33,180 --> 00:15:35,300 Maybe Pop would like one of those as well. 344 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:37,260 A premium scalp massage. You wanna give Pop a scalp massage? 345 00:15:37,260 --> 00:15:39,220 I've only got three hairs. Ow! Oh, no! 346 00:15:39,220 --> 00:15:40,660 Yeah! Ow! 347 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:43,180 Ooh, that's nice. Ow! Yeah! (CHUCKLES) 348 00:15:43,180 --> 00:15:44,060 Oh, that's beautiful. 349 00:15:44,060 --> 00:15:45,780 You could be a professional scalp masseur. 350 00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:47,460 Oh, Oh, again. Ow! (CHUCKLES) 351 00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:49,140 Ooh, it's very, very nice. Do it again. 352 00:15:49,140 --> 00:15:51,500 Ahh... Aaaaagh! (LAUGHS) 353 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:57,540 Everybody around me might know that I am... 354 00:15:57,540 --> 00:15:59,820 ..it's going, that the brain's going, 355 00:15:59,820 --> 00:16:00,060 ..it's going, that the but I don't. 356 00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:02,100 but I don't. 357 00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:04,180 I think I'm right on the ball... 358 00:16:04,180 --> 00:16:04,420 (MARY ANNE CHUCKLES) I think I'm right on the ball... 359 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:06,700 (MARY ANNE CHUCKLES) Nothing... It's true! 360 00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:13,420 Yeah. I think you have a philosophy of living each day as it comes. 361 00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:13,660 Yeah. I think you have a philosophy Yeah. 362 00:16:13,660 --> 00:16:14,700 Yeah. 363 00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:17,180 You can't redo yesterday. 364 00:16:17,180 --> 00:16:19,540 You don't know what's coming tomorrow. (CHUCKLES) 365 00:16:19,540 --> 00:16:20,660 Mm. Absolutely. 366 00:16:20,660 --> 00:16:20,940 Mm. Absolutely. Absolutely. 367 00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:21,660 Mm. Absolutely. 368 00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:21,900 Mm. Absolutely. Mm. 369 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:22,660 Mm. 370 00:16:22,660 --> 00:16:26,340 You are monkeys! You can tickle each other now if you like. 371 00:16:26,340 --> 00:16:27,780 (GIGGLES) 372 00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:29,580 Ow! 373 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:32,380 One of the costs of dementia is that 374 00:16:32,380 --> 00:16:35,340 if you're an incredibly passionate, intellectual person, 375 00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:37,700 if you're a lover of the creative life, which Dad is, 376 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:40,380 it soaks a little bit of the blood and energy 377 00:16:40,380 --> 00:16:45,460 out of that peak intellectual creative output. 378 00:16:51,140 --> 00:16:54,580 I didn't get my head around the prospect of decline. 379 00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:57,420 And... 380 00:16:58,940 --> 00:17:00,780 ..so we're grappling with it. 381 00:17:02,420 --> 00:17:08,900 I mean, it's a horrendous fear to imagine being in a relationship 382 00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:14,900 with someone who you love so much and who has been such a guiding star 383 00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:15,140 with someone who you love so much and then... 384 00:17:15,140 --> 00:17:16,420 and then... 385 00:17:17,660 --> 00:17:22,420 ..having the shell of that person persist without the spark of life. 386 00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:22,660 ..having the shell of that person That's the fear. 387 00:17:22,660 --> 00:17:24,260 That's the fear. 388 00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:26,740 And luckily, that hasn't happened yet, 389 00:17:26,740 --> 00:17:28,500 because the spark of life is so intense. 390 00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:34,900 But I do think that you're tough and wise and a great survivor. 391 00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:36,740 Yeah. Hang in there. Yeah. 392 00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:38,500 White knuckles... Yeah. 393 00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:39,380 ..and smiling. 394 00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:42,300 And very positive, and you love life, 395 00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:44,820 and you're gonna squeeze every last bit out of it. 396 00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:52,460 Well, as far as we know for sure, this one...is...it. 397 00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:53,860 Mm. This is it. 398 00:17:53,860 --> 00:17:54,620 Mm. 399 00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:59,340 Now, we may have, you know, afterlives and all that, 400 00:17:59,340 --> 00:17:59,580 Now, we may have, you know, but you don't know about that. 401 00:17:59,580 --> 00:18:01,580 but you don't know about that. 402 00:18:01,580 --> 00:18:07,020 So, yeah, take it as it is, and love it. Love it. 403 00:18:27,540 --> 00:18:31,940 First time I meet Ali, at Mount Austin Public School. 404 00:18:31,940 --> 00:18:35,420 Drei was a volunteer at the Community Garden 405 00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:38,500 where I was based for my work at the time, 406 00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:38,740 where I was based and we just got to know each other 407 00:18:38,740 --> 00:18:40,180 and we just got to know each other 408 00:18:40,180 --> 00:18:40,420 and made a connection, and we just got to know each other 409 00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:43,860 and made a connection, and our friendship grew from there. 410 00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:47,380 Are some of your children at the school here, or...? 411 00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:52,500 I have three children, but only two in Australia. 412 00:18:53,660 --> 00:18:55,460 Where's your other child? 413 00:18:56,980 --> 00:19:00,020 We get separate with other child in Turkey. 414 00:19:00,020 --> 00:19:05,060 He live in Germany with my sibling and parents. 415 00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:09,620 So are you planning to try and bring him to Wagga? 416 00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:13,780 We already applied for him for visa. 417 00:19:13,780 --> 00:19:15,860 Right. 418 00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:19,340 When I first heard the story of Drei and his family 419 00:19:19,340 --> 00:19:22,380 and how they had left their home in Iraq 420 00:19:22,380 --> 00:19:25,580 and the fact that their son Ronnie had been separated from them 421 00:19:25,580 --> 00:19:29,580 for four years at that stage, I just couldn't deal with it. 422 00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:34,220 Ronejan was a child, and I thought if Ronnie was my child 423 00:19:34,220 --> 00:19:34,500 I would do anything to try and help get him here. Ronejan was a child, and I thought if Ronnie was my child 424 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:38,860 I would do anything to try and help get him here. 425 00:19:38,860 --> 00:19:43,700 I spoke to Ali about Ronejan. 426 00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:43,940 She said, "I will try. I don't give you promise anything, but I will try. I spoke to Ali about Ronejan. 427 00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:49,060 She said, "I will try. I don't give you promise anything, but I will try. 428 00:19:49,060 --> 00:19:51,580 "He is like my children, I look after him, 429 00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:54,100 "and what can I do I will do for him." 430 00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:00,220 We live Sinjar, Iraq, 431 00:20:00,220 --> 00:20:03,380 where ISIS has a big gun. 432 00:20:03,380 --> 00:20:06,020 They come close to my village. 433 00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:10,900 They want to kill the people and start war. 434 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:22,340 We going to the mount 435 00:20:22,340 --> 00:20:25,500 and a lot of people, they say 436 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,380 the road is not closed to going the Kurdistan Iraq. 437 00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:36,340 And then me and my wife and kids moved to Turkey. 438 00:20:39,420 --> 00:20:42,300 It was very hard life in the camp. 439 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:46,940 Two years live in a tent is very hard. 440 00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:51,100 Some people, they now maybe seven years, six years. 441 00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:56,220 The camp is like jail, because always you stay in the tent. 442 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,620 We don't have a lot of opportunity in the refugee camp. 443 00:21:02,620 --> 00:21:05,260 And my sibling and another brother, 444 00:21:05,260 --> 00:21:08,540 going together with Ronejan, went to Germany. 445 00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:17,300 He leave 16 July 2016. 446 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:18,780 He eight years old. 447 00:21:21,060 --> 00:21:25,700 Me and Zenah, we can't talk each other, just feeling upset. 448 00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,020 I applied for Australia visa. 449 00:21:31,020 --> 00:21:31,260 I heard some people say I applied for Australia visa. 450 00:21:31,260 --> 00:21:35,260 I heard some people say that Australia 451 00:21:35,260 --> 00:21:35,500 I heard some people say opened the port for Yazidi community. 452 00:21:35,500 --> 00:21:38,060 opened the port for Yazidi community. 453 00:21:39,660 --> 00:21:46,300 We arrive Australia on 9 March 2017. 454 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:52,580 Winnie. (WHISTLES) 455 00:21:53,780 --> 00:21:56,300 Do you use the eggplant? This one? 456 00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:58,300 Yes. What do you call it? 457 00:21:58,300 --> 00:21:59,940 Albadhinjan. 458 00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:01,660 My language. 459 00:22:01,660 --> 00:22:04,820 Say it again. Albadhinjan. 460 00:22:04,820 --> 00:22:10,940 Drei and Zenah have lost so much, and the impact on them as a couple 461 00:22:10,940 --> 00:22:15,140 and on their sense of wellbeing here in Australia 462 00:22:15,140 --> 00:22:19,980 was really significant, I think particularly for Zenah. 463 00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:20,220 was really significant, She was struggling to connect 464 00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:23,540 She was struggling to connect 465 00:22:23,540 --> 00:22:26,140 and move forward with her life here in Australia 466 00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:30,780 because of the pain of not having all her children with her. 467 00:22:30,780 --> 00:22:35,060 And very much for Drei too, but I think Drei felt a responsibility 468 00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:40,420 to be a strong caregiver to his family, so he would soldier on. 469 00:22:42,620 --> 00:22:44,180 Delicious. 470 00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:49,740 I know that Zenah get every day upset for him, they think of Ronejan. 471 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:53,180 I think as well, I get very sad. 472 00:22:54,620 --> 00:22:58,380 We got visa for Ronejan come to Australia, 473 00:22:58,380 --> 00:23:02,940 but the border closed down for the COVID-19. 474 00:23:05,460 --> 00:23:09,740 We made a decision to try and organise his travel ourselves 475 00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:14,500 and we spent a lot of hours together as a team 476 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:17,300 trying to work out how we were gonna make this happen. 477 00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,580 Hello? WOMAN: (ON CALL) Hello? 478 00:23:19,580 --> 00:23:21,260 Hi, Melisa. It's Ali. 479 00:23:21,260 --> 00:23:23,100 Yeah, hi, Drei, Ali and Belinda. 480 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:25,580 I've received a letter from the department. 481 00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:29,060 The department is not going to facilitate the travel for Ronejan 482 00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:32,260 as they normally would when someone is granted a refugee visa. 483 00:23:32,260 --> 00:23:38,980 I will have to help Drei make a request to the department 484 00:23:38,980 --> 00:23:39,220 I will have to help Drei make to grant Ronejan permission to enter 485 00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:42,140 to grant Ronejan permission to enter 486 00:23:42,140 --> 00:23:46,660 based on the fact that he is a minor overseas, 487 00:23:46,660 --> 00:23:48,900 you know, without his parents, and his parents are here, 488 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:51,260 and they've been separated for such a long time. 489 00:23:51,260 --> 00:23:51,500 and they've been separated So I will do that. 490 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:53,020 So I will do that. 491 00:23:58,140 --> 00:24:00,980 MAN: When was the first European settlement in Australia? 492 00:24:00,980 --> 00:24:03,340 1900? Do you know what European means? 493 00:24:03,340 --> 00:24:06,300 We just didn't want to let Drei and Zenah down. 494 00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:08,100 I think that's why it was so stressful, 495 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:11,100 because having built up so many hopes, 496 00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:14,900 it was just unbearable to think that something might happen. 497 00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:17,140 And there were a lot of things that could have gone wrong. 498 00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:28,860 Ronnie! 499 00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:32,220 Ronnie! 500 00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:36,780 There he is. 501 00:24:36,780 --> 00:24:36,980 There he is. There he is. 502 00:24:36,980 --> 00:24:38,180 There he is. 503 00:24:38,180 --> 00:24:38,380 There he is. There he is. 504 00:24:38,380 --> 00:24:39,780 There he is. 505 00:24:42,220 --> 00:24:46,660 I spoke to myself, "I can't believe he's come here." 506 00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:56,140 (ZENAH SOBS) 507 00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:56,380 When Zenah hugged Ronnie (ZENAH SOBS) 508 00:24:56,380 --> 00:25:00,100 When Zenah hugged Ronnie for the first time in four years, 509 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:06,060 it was one of those moments in life that you'll never forget. 510 00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:06,300 it was one of those moments in life It was beautiful. 511 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:07,740 It was beautiful. 512 00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:12,860 (ZENAH SOBS) 513 00:25:15,780 --> 00:25:20,180 When I give him hug, I remind... 514 00:25:27,820 --> 00:25:29,220 ..I remind... 515 00:25:32,860 --> 00:25:35,460 ..when I left Iraq... 516 00:25:37,260 --> 00:25:39,540 ..my mum and my dad give me hug. 517 00:25:43,180 --> 00:25:48,060 When Drei got his turn, that was the icing on the cake. (CHUCKLES) 518 00:25:48,060 --> 00:25:49,980 He'd held it together for so long, 519 00:25:49,980 --> 00:25:55,420 and to see him be able to hold his son was incredible. 520 00:25:56,660 --> 00:26:01,900 When he arrive here same night, we Sydney drive to Wagga. 521 00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:06,660 We stay home in quarantine two weeks. 522 00:26:06,660 --> 00:26:09,460 Randi and Redwan, they want to come in with us 523 00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:12,820 but we spoke to them, "It's too far Sydney, 524 00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:13,060 but we spoke to them, "better you stay in Wagga." 525 00:26:13,060 --> 00:26:14,820 "better you stay in Wagga." 526 00:26:16,980 --> 00:26:19,180 (CHILDREN OUTSIDE CHATTER EXCITEDLY) 527 00:26:20,580 --> 00:26:23,860 (CHILDREN CHATTER AND LAUGH) 528 00:26:23,860 --> 00:26:27,340 They kissed together, 529 00:26:27,340 --> 00:26:31,700 and Redwan, he's a bit cry. 530 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:35,140 And Randi tell him, "Should we not yet cry 531 00:26:35,140 --> 00:26:38,660 "because your brother here - should be going play together." 532 00:26:40,060 --> 00:26:43,100 (BOTH MUTTER AND SOB EMOTIONALLY) 533 00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:57,700 RANDI: I was happy when he came here. 534 00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:00,460 INTERVIEWER: Why? I missed him. 535 00:27:02,980 --> 00:27:06,180 I want to come to Australia 'cause my family was here. 536 00:27:06,180 --> 00:27:06,420 I want to come to Australia I want to live with them. 537 00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:08,140 I want to live with them. 538 00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:11,620 That was too far. 539 00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:15,300 Behind you! Behind you! 540 00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:22,540 Do you think it's ready? MAN: Pretty good. 541 00:27:22,540 --> 00:27:24,620 You're the chef, mate. I think it's ready. 542 00:27:28,220 --> 00:27:31,260 Good way of cooking, Reg. MAN: It's a great way of cooking. 543 00:27:31,260 --> 00:27:31,500 Good way of cooking, Reg. I love the barbecue. 544 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:32,860 I love the barbecue. 545 00:27:35,180 --> 00:27:38,940 You can have one piece. ALI: Oh, thank you. 546 00:27:38,940 --> 00:27:40,260 From first meeting Drei and Zenah, 547 00:27:40,260 --> 00:27:41,940 I felt a strong connection with them, 548 00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:47,820 but I know after, you know, being through this experience with them 549 00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:53,180 that I view them as very much part of our extended family now, 550 00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:56,020 and from my point of view they always will be. 551 00:27:58,860 --> 00:28:01,220 Absolutely, Zenah. Happy wife, happy life. 552 00:28:01,220 --> 00:28:01,460 Absolutely, Zenah. (ALL LAUGH) 553 00:28:01,460 --> 00:28:04,500 (ALL LAUGH) 554 00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:07,140 Ali, she is never get far away for the family. 555 00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:12,820 Me and Zenah, we looking is like one family together. 556 00:28:12,820 --> 00:28:13,060 Me and Zenah, we looking is ALL: Cheese! 557 00:28:13,060 --> 00:28:15,820 ALL: Cheese! 558 00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:18,660 Thanks for having us. Thank you for coming. 559 00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:21,780 Really appreciate you sharing with us. 560 00:28:21,780 --> 00:28:23,820 Thank you. OTHERS: Thank you. 561 00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:24,060 Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. 562 00:28:24,060 --> 00:28:26,300 You're welcome. You're welcome. 563 00:28:40,940 --> 00:28:43,380 MAN: Gonna test your... Just give me a...just chat to me. 564 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:56,940 BOY: I think, when I was younger, my grandma took a lot of care with me, 565 00:28:56,940 --> 00:28:59,020 so I think just through that, that we bonded a lot. 566 00:28:59,020 --> 00:28:59,260 so I think just through that, And I was the firstborn child, 567 00:28:59,260 --> 00:29:00,980 And I was the firstborn child, 568 00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:03,260 so I just think she had a lot of love for me 569 00:29:03,260 --> 00:29:05,260 and I had a lot of love for her as well. 570 00:29:05,260 --> 00:29:07,820 I am the favourite, but don't tell my siblings. (LAUGHS) 571 00:29:08,860 --> 00:29:11,100 So, my grandma's really supportive of me 572 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:15,700 and she has raised me, and she takes care of my other siblings as well. 573 00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:21,660 My mum lives in Dubai, she's a teacher in Dubai, 574 00:29:21,660 --> 00:29:21,900 My mum lives in Dubai, and my father's in jail. 575 00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:23,700 and my father's in jail. 576 00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:27,460 The main thing is that you follow the rules. 577 00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:32,300 Get a lecture. Yep. 578 00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:34,340 Me and my siblings moved back to Australia 579 00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:36,740 because the education was better here, 580 00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:39,620 and my grandma accepted us with open arms. 581 00:29:40,580 --> 00:29:43,740 Jamil is the oldest one out of the four. 582 00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:46,700 He came to me when he was nine years old. 583 00:29:48,060 --> 00:29:52,340 We connected very closely to each other. 584 00:29:52,340 --> 00:29:53,580 (BARKS) 585 00:29:53,580 --> 00:29:55,540 She likes anything you fed her. 586 00:29:57,260 --> 00:29:58,700 She's a little spoilt one. 587 00:30:00,860 --> 00:30:04,860 Jamil is a child which shows his feeling. 588 00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:08,580 He's very emotional. 589 00:30:08,580 --> 00:30:11,820 He listen to other people's problems and concern 590 00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:12,060 He listen to other people's and trying to help them as well. 591 00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:14,460 and trying to help them as well. 592 00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:20,060 And this seems to be what Jamil and I have a close connection, with this. 593 00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:20,300 And this seems to be what Jamil and We share. 594 00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:21,460 We share. 595 00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:30,580 While I was growing up, I had a lot of different interests 596 00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:33,540 compared to a lot of my friends who were girls. 597 00:30:33,540 --> 00:30:36,780 And so I guess once high school started, 598 00:30:36,780 --> 00:30:39,980 the uniform that you had to wear, which is a dress, 599 00:30:39,980 --> 00:30:40,260 I guess that's when I knew that I just started to feel the uniform that you had to wear, which is a dress, 600 00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:42,180 I guess that's when I knew that I just started to feel 601 00:30:42,180 --> 00:30:46,380 really uncomfortable having to wear that. 602 00:30:48,260 --> 00:30:52,540 So there was one night where I was just really worked up 603 00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:55,540 and I'd be trying to figure out things by myself. 604 00:30:55,540 --> 00:30:57,500 I couldn't really get myself to sleep. 605 00:30:57,500 --> 00:31:00,020 Whenever that's happening, I usually jump in bed with my grandma. 606 00:31:00,020 --> 00:31:03,540 So I went to her room and said that I was really upset. 607 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:08,340 I didn't really know what to say, but she sort of calmed me down 608 00:31:08,340 --> 00:31:10,860 and told me, you know, that it was OK, 609 00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:14,540 and I sort of just tried to explain to her how I was feeling. 610 00:31:14,540 --> 00:31:14,820 He said to me, "I don't want to be a girl anymore." and I sort of just tried to explain to her how I was feeling. 611 00:31:14,820 --> 00:31:18,220 He said to me, "I don't want to be a girl anymore." 612 00:31:19,180 --> 00:31:22,060 And I said, "What do you mean?" 613 00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:22,260 And I said, "What do you mean?" And he said, "I feel different." 614 00:31:22,260 --> 00:31:24,540 And he said, "I feel different." 615 00:31:24,540 --> 00:31:28,620 I said, "What do you mean by feeling different? I don't understand." 616 00:31:28,620 --> 00:31:30,100 And he said, "I want to be a boy." 617 00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:32,220 I said, "Oh." 618 00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:34,780 I said "OK, look, Jamil," 619 00:31:34,780 --> 00:31:41,420 I said, "I don't understand this transgender problem you're having. 620 00:31:41,420 --> 00:31:41,660 I said, "I don't understand this "I don't even know what it is." 621 00:31:41,660 --> 00:31:44,980 "I don't even know what it is." 622 00:31:44,980 --> 00:31:47,220 I said, "I need to find out more." 623 00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:50,340 She didn't fully understand what I was trying to say, 624 00:31:50,340 --> 00:31:52,500 as I didn't really understand either, 625 00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,780 but she was really supportive and she just assured me 626 00:31:55,780 --> 00:31:57,340 that everything was OK 627 00:31:57,340 --> 00:32:00,980 and she would help me figure out anything that was going on. 628 00:32:00,980 --> 00:32:06,300 I had no idea what being transgender meant or what it was. 629 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:11,340 I don't think I'd met anyone that I knew at least who was transgender. 630 00:32:11,340 --> 00:32:14,540 I really had no knowledge of what I was feeling. 631 00:32:18,220 --> 00:32:19,380 Here. 632 00:32:19,380 --> 00:32:21,060 I was so proud to be... 633 00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:23,380 (LAUGHS) 634 00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:25,180 ..be taking a photo on that day. 635 00:32:25,180 --> 00:32:28,580 I don't know why, but that's a long time ago, darling. 636 00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:33,500 We went to the GP and we told them what was going on and how I felt, 637 00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:37,420 and they wrote me a referral to see the Royal Children's Hospital. 638 00:32:37,420 --> 00:32:40,420 Once I went there, the doctors that I had were really friendly 639 00:32:40,420 --> 00:32:42,180 and really supportive and helped talk me through 640 00:32:42,180 --> 00:32:42,420 and really supportive things that I didn't understand 641 00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:43,660 things that I didn't understand 642 00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:45,940 and things that my grandma also didn't understand, 643 00:32:45,940 --> 00:32:48,300 just 'cause we'd never really been exposed 644 00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:50,180 to that sort of thing before. 645 00:32:50,180 --> 00:32:54,020 My background is German. I'm actually from Cologne. 646 00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:57,100 Here I am, two years old. 647 00:32:58,860 --> 00:33:00,860 This is the orphanage I grew up. 648 00:33:00,860 --> 00:33:03,660 I like to accept a person for whom they are - 649 00:33:03,660 --> 00:33:06,260 that's how I grew up in the orphanage. 650 00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:10,380 We had different kids, couldn't speak, 651 00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:14,940 people who couldn't walk, violent kids - I grew up with that. 652 00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:20,540 To me, I accepted for whom they were and I was friend to everybody. 653 00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:20,780 To me, I accepted for whom they About halfway through Year 7, 654 00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:23,380 About halfway through Year 7, 655 00:33:23,380 --> 00:33:25,860 I started to wear the boys' uniform to school. 656 00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:29,380 And the first day that I came to school in the boys' uniform 657 00:33:29,380 --> 00:33:32,660 I was really nervous, although I was also excited at the same time. 658 00:33:32,660 --> 00:33:34,780 So I told a few of my friends if they could 659 00:33:34,780 --> 00:33:37,300 meet me out the front of the school and just walk in with me, 660 00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:40,100 just 'cause I hadn't really announced to people at school 661 00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:41,900 that I was trans or anything like that. 662 00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:44,540 I didn't want to have to sort of explain myself to anyone. 663 00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:48,860 I said to Jamil, "Don't worry about anybody else. 664 00:33:48,860 --> 00:33:51,660 "We do what we do, we change your uniform, 665 00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:56,060 "we let the school know he needs to be what he is. 666 00:33:56,060 --> 00:33:56,300 "we let the school know "To be accepted." 667 00:33:56,300 --> 00:33:57,300 "To be accepted." 668 00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:00,540 I knew once I'd told my grandma and had her support 669 00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:03,340 that it wouldn't matter who else in my family I told, 670 00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:04,940 whether they accepted me or not, 671 00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:07,420 'cause my grandma was the most important person to me. 672 00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:11,260 I liked the idea that he came out. 673 00:34:11,260 --> 00:34:14,100 He wanted me to support him, 674 00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:14,340 to be there for him in regards He wanted me to support him, 675 00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:18,620 to be there for him in regards to the transition 676 00:34:18,620 --> 00:34:20,500 from the female to male. 677 00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:25,220 My daughter sort of was confused. 678 00:34:25,220 --> 00:34:28,340 She said, "I don't understand." 679 00:34:28,340 --> 00:34:32,300 But she accepted it more and she does call him Jamil. 680 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:35,180 Where the father is not accepting it at all. 681 00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:38,540 So I chose the name Jamil because 682 00:34:38,540 --> 00:34:38,780 both my younger brothers' names So I chose the name Jamil because 683 00:34:38,780 --> 00:34:42,380 both my younger brothers' names end in I-L 684 00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:45,620 and they're Islamic names, which is what my mother wanted. 685 00:34:45,620 --> 00:34:49,700 So I made sure that I chose a name that would fit in with my siblings. 686 00:34:49,700 --> 00:34:52,700 It was kind of an awkward feeling at first, 687 00:34:52,700 --> 00:34:55,220 having to get used to people calling out a different name 688 00:34:55,220 --> 00:34:57,460 and remembering, "Oh, yeah, that's my name now." 689 00:34:57,460 --> 00:34:57,700 and remembering, But, you know, it felt really good 690 00:34:57,700 --> 00:34:58,980 But, you know, it felt really good 691 00:34:58,980 --> 00:35:02,260 to know that people were accepting me 692 00:35:02,260 --> 00:35:05,700 and recognising me as how I identified. 693 00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:07,700 When you hear stories about what other people go through 694 00:35:07,700 --> 00:35:10,220 and you know that, you know, it's possible 695 00:35:10,220 --> 00:35:12,660 that you could be targeted like that for being who you are, 696 00:35:12,660 --> 00:35:15,700 and that's kind of concerning to know. 697 00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:17,500 Why is it so hard to accept 698 00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:21,140 every individual person's search for their own life 699 00:35:21,140 --> 00:35:23,660 and their own feeling, and follow that? 700 00:35:23,660 --> 00:35:27,060 And I think transgender is no different to anybody else. 701 00:35:27,060 --> 00:35:31,180 Transgender is not an illness, it's not a sickness, 702 00:35:31,180 --> 00:35:33,620 it's just a different feeling. 703 00:35:33,620 --> 00:35:39,220 And I believe, you follow your feeling and your instinct, 704 00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:39,460 And I believe, you follow you go a long way. 705 00:35:39,460 --> 00:35:40,980 you go a long way. 706 00:35:44,380 --> 00:35:46,740 The best thing for me about being able to transition 707 00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:49,500 was just being able to feel comfortable with myself 708 00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:49,740 was just being able to and recognise from other people 709 00:35:49,740 --> 00:35:51,780 and recognise from other people 710 00:35:51,780 --> 00:35:53,700 as how I saw myself from the inside. 711 00:36:19,020 --> 00:36:23,420 I do remember, as a child, always having this fear of blackness. 712 00:36:24,580 --> 00:36:26,500 I think, because I had internalised 713 00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:30,500 this sense of shame about my blackness, 714 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:34,060 it had always been a preoccupation of mine. 715 00:36:34,060 --> 00:36:36,860 Nobody ever said, "You don't fit in here," 716 00:36:36,860 --> 00:36:41,500 but you very much felt like your family was, in some way, 717 00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:44,780 different to the way everybody else appeared to be. 718 00:36:47,980 --> 00:36:52,260 I remember once when my mum came to collect me from school 719 00:36:52,260 --> 00:36:52,500 I remember once when my mum came and my stomach just dropped. 720 00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:54,060 and my stomach just dropped. 721 00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:57,780 She called out my name and I turned away, and I walked away. 722 00:36:57,780 --> 00:36:58,020 She called out my name And she was really angry with me. 723 00:36:58,020 --> 00:36:59,860 And she was really angry with me. 724 00:36:59,860 --> 00:37:01,220 She said, "Why...? You saw me... 725 00:37:01,220 --> 00:37:02,820 "You saw me call out your name. 726 00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:04,660 "Why did you walk away?" 727 00:37:04,660 --> 00:37:08,940 Children saw her speaking to me and they would ask me, "Is that your mum? 728 00:37:08,940 --> 00:37:12,300 "Why is your mum white and you have dark skin?" 729 00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:17,260 And I always felt, growing up, that I had to constantly explain 730 00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:22,020 that she was my mother, that we were legitimate in some way. 731 00:37:27,580 --> 00:37:32,540 I was born in Guyana, which is a country up the top of South America. 732 00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:37,220 We moved to America when I was about 9 or 10 months old 733 00:37:37,220 --> 00:37:42,460 and then my parents separated, so I really grew up in Australia. 734 00:37:42,460 --> 00:37:47,020 I grew up in a single-parent, only-child family. 735 00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:50,860 And at that time, in Canberra, in the 1980s, 736 00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:51,100 And at that time, that family unit was quite unusual. 737 00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:54,220 that family unit was quite unusual. 738 00:37:54,220 --> 00:37:54,460 I didn't see any other families that family unit was quite unusual. 739 00:37:54,460 --> 00:37:57,740 I didn't see any other families that looked like mine. 740 00:37:57,740 --> 00:38:01,740 I think I just doubled down on my belief that we were inherently wrong, 741 00:38:01,740 --> 00:38:04,460 and there's a great deal of shame that comes with that, 742 00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:07,260 and I think perhaps that's one of the reasons why 743 00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:09,700 I found it so difficult to talk to my mum. 744 00:38:11,420 --> 00:38:14,100 My father was an absent figure. 745 00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:19,260 He was in America, and had been in America since I was 9 months old. 746 00:38:23,460 --> 00:38:25,460 It wasn't until I was in my late 30s, 747 00:38:25,460 --> 00:38:27,620 and probably when I had my own child, actually, 748 00:38:27,620 --> 00:38:32,860 that I felt the need to start understanding 749 00:38:32,860 --> 00:38:33,100 that I felt the need what my heritage meant to me, 750 00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:35,700 what my heritage meant to me, 751 00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:37,700 what my sense of colour meant to me. 752 00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:41,540 I made an effort to start at ground zero 753 00:38:41,540 --> 00:38:44,420 and to find a relationship with my father 754 00:38:44,420 --> 00:38:44,660 and to find a relationship as an adult, on my own terms. 755 00:38:44,660 --> 00:38:47,300 as an adult, on my own terms. 756 00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:50,420 Hi, Dad. 757 00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:54,700 Hello. Hi. Can you hear me? 758 00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:54,940 Hello. Yes, I can, very clearly. 759 00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:57,180 Yes, I can, very clearly. 760 00:38:57,180 --> 00:38:59,740 Have you had your second jab yet? 761 00:38:59,740 --> 00:39:01,540 Yes, I have. 762 00:39:01,540 --> 00:39:06,340 Yes, I had it just about a week ago. Yep. 763 00:39:06,340 --> 00:39:10,900 The first time I met my dad was when I was 22, 764 00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:14,820 and I had flown to the States to meet him. 765 00:39:14,820 --> 00:39:17,100 I just walked up to him and I said, "Hi, Dad," 766 00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:19,820 and of course he hugged me and he cried for two minutes 767 00:39:19,820 --> 00:39:24,860 after not having held me in his arms for two decades or so. 768 00:39:24,860 --> 00:39:30,780 And it was the strangest feeling of familiarity, it was extraordinary. 769 00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:34,620 We started having conversations about his life, 770 00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:34,860 We started having conversations growing up in Guyana. 771 00:39:34,860 --> 00:39:36,540 growing up in Guyana. 772 00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:41,860 Did it remind you of being back in Guyana? 773 00:39:41,860 --> 00:39:43,580 Well, yes. 774 00:39:43,580 --> 00:39:47,500 Back at, um... In Jamaica, actually. 775 00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:53,020 Because when I was in college there, we had a steel band. 776 00:39:53,020 --> 00:39:58,580 Anecdotes about what his family life was like back in Guyana, 777 00:39:58,580 --> 00:40:00,020 and that became really important to me, 778 00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:04,620 not only because I wanted to own my heritage in a positive way 779 00:40:04,620 --> 00:40:04,860 not only because I wanted to own and to understand it, 780 00:40:04,860 --> 00:40:06,300 and to understand it, 781 00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:12,180 but I wanted to have a sense of pride about my colour 782 00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:18,260 and I wanted my son to be able to have access to his heritage 783 00:40:18,260 --> 00:40:20,500 and framed in a positive way 784 00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:23,020 that I think I missed out on when I was a child. 785 00:40:23,020 --> 00:40:23,260 that I think I missed out on I'm thinking Felix would love it. 786 00:40:23,260 --> 00:40:25,500 I'm thinking Felix would love it. 787 00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:28,380 I mean, he would just be in a Wonderland. 788 00:40:28,380 --> 00:40:30,780 Yeah. I can't wait to take him, actually. 789 00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:37,820 So, which one belongs to you? (CHUCKLES) 790 00:40:37,820 --> 00:40:39,940 That's Felix over there in the black cap. 791 00:40:39,940 --> 00:40:40,180 That's Felix over there Ah. 792 00:40:40,180 --> 00:40:41,340 Ah. 793 00:40:41,340 --> 00:40:41,580 He doesn't look very much like you, Ah. 794 00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:45,020 He doesn't look very much like you, so I wouldn't have picked it. 795 00:40:45,020 --> 00:40:45,260 He doesn't look very much like you, Where are you from? 796 00:40:45,260 --> 00:40:46,300 Where are you from? 797 00:40:46,300 --> 00:40:49,660 It's not always easy, because, again, you're forced to explain yourself 798 00:40:49,660 --> 00:40:52,180 in a way that perhaps other families aren't. 799 00:40:52,180 --> 00:40:57,220 And I'll simply state the fact that, yes, Felix is my son. 800 00:40:57,220 --> 00:41:00,740 "Little love, when call out Black Lives Matter 801 00:41:00,740 --> 00:41:03,860 "We're saying, walk with us, raise your voice." 802 00:41:03,860 --> 00:41:08,860 "We see you, black child magic, in your radiant black shine.' 803 00:41:11,020 --> 00:41:13,860 "Little love, when we call out Black Lives Matter..." 804 00:41:13,860 --> 00:41:18,420 I feel that I'm ill-equipped to talk about race 805 00:41:18,420 --> 00:41:22,220 but I'm glad that I have a child with different colour skin, 806 00:41:22,220 --> 00:41:25,780 and I'm proud that we these kind of conversations in the house. 807 00:41:25,780 --> 00:41:27,620 Good reading. That was great, bubby. 808 00:41:27,620 --> 00:41:28,740 Yeah. Yeah. 809 00:41:28,740 --> 00:41:28,980 Yeah. Without further ado, 810 00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:31,220 Without further ado, 811 00:41:31,220 --> 00:41:34,420 I'd like to join Cath to join me. 812 00:41:34,420 --> 00:41:36,820 (APPLAUSE) 813 00:41:36,820 --> 00:41:37,060 I had always thought about the world (APPLAUSE) 814 00:41:37,060 --> 00:41:41,700 I had always thought about the world through the written word, 815 00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:41,940 I had always thought about the world and I think that was also in part 816 00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:44,340 and I think that was also in part 817 00:41:44,340 --> 00:41:47,940 because I found it difficult to express myself verbally. 818 00:41:47,940 --> 00:41:52,260 I think I was very anxious and introverted as a kid. 819 00:41:52,260 --> 00:41:54,700 I've heard people who read my work 820 00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:58,100 talk about how similar their experiences have been, 821 00:41:58,100 --> 00:41:58,340 talk about how similar and that's been so gratifying 822 00:41:58,340 --> 00:41:59,940 and that's been so gratifying 823 00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:03,500 to know that I speak to other people's truths. 824 00:42:04,820 --> 00:42:07,300 The ironic thing, I think, is that 825 00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:09,700 the way that my family look now 826 00:42:09,700 --> 00:42:14,100 is the same as the way my family did when I was a child 827 00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:17,100 in that, for many people, we don't make sense. 828 00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:20,500 We have a very mixed heritage. 829 00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:23,260 I have a stepdaughter, who's 18, 830 00:42:23,260 --> 00:42:26,780 my stepdaughter's heritage is Malaysian Indian, 831 00:42:26,780 --> 00:42:27,020 my stepdaughter's heritage and I have a son who is eight. 832 00:42:27,020 --> 00:42:29,740 and I have a son who is eight. 833 00:42:30,940 --> 00:42:33,620 My partner is German. 834 00:42:33,620 --> 00:42:36,820 So I still often get the same questions 835 00:42:36,820 --> 00:42:40,700 that were asked of me and my mother when I was growing up, 836 00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:44,620 but now, because I have a very different sense of self, 837 00:42:44,620 --> 00:42:47,180 and a positive sense of who I am, 838 00:42:47,180 --> 00:42:51,980 I don't feel that those questions are so much of an imposition anymore. 839 00:42:53,060 --> 00:42:55,300 I don't think anybody ever gets to choose 840 00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:59,020 their family as it ends up being or becoming 841 00:42:59,020 --> 00:43:01,820 but, on the flip side of that, 842 00:43:01,820 --> 00:43:04,940 I wouldn't wanna have my family any other way 843 00:43:04,940 --> 00:43:08,980 because they have helped me understand myself 844 00:43:08,980 --> 00:43:09,220 because they have helped me in a much more dimensional way. 845 00:43:09,220 --> 00:43:11,500 in a much more dimensional way. 846 00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:15,300 I think it has made us a stronger, tighter unit. 847 00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:35,260 INTERVIEWER: OK. 848 00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:52,740 OK, Jane, so just looking here. 849 00:43:52,740 --> 00:43:55,020 What are your early memories of family? 850 00:43:57,260 --> 00:43:58,900 Ooh. 851 00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:03,420 I had thought that if these people weren't my family 852 00:44:03,420 --> 00:44:04,900 then I wouldn't love them. 853 00:44:07,940 --> 00:44:09,660 I was three years old 854 00:44:09,660 --> 00:44:13,940 and Dad was sitting deep back in a big floral armchair 855 00:44:13,940 --> 00:44:17,700 and Mum was sitting on the side of it 856 00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:17,940 and Mum was sitting and they told me I was adopted. 857 00:44:17,940 --> 00:44:20,180 and they told me I was adopted. 858 00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:23,620 And I asked what that meant 859 00:44:23,620 --> 00:44:26,980 and they said that I'd been given up for adoption. 860 00:44:26,980 --> 00:44:27,220 and they said that I'd been And, uh... 861 00:44:27,220 --> 00:44:29,900 And, uh... 862 00:44:29,900 --> 00:44:31,340 ..I didn't quite know... 863 00:44:32,860 --> 00:44:39,220 ..what was going on, but I knew that I didn't have my mummy, you know? 864 00:44:39,220 --> 00:44:39,460 ..what was going on, but I knew that Where was my mummy? 865 00:44:39,460 --> 00:44:40,860 Where was my mummy? 866 00:44:42,380 --> 00:44:45,380 And then they left the room - they sort of left me with it. 867 00:44:45,380 --> 00:44:49,100 I don't remember being held or hugged 868 00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:49,340 I don't remember being held or comforted in any way. 869 00:44:49,340 --> 00:44:50,900 or comforted in any way. 870 00:44:52,180 --> 00:44:56,260 I wanted to find my mummy because I wasn't happy, 871 00:44:56,260 --> 00:44:56,500 I wanted to find my mummy and mummy became... 872 00:44:56,500 --> 00:44:59,060 and mummy became... 873 00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:04,380 ..the love that I felt was missing. 874 00:45:08,860 --> 00:45:11,900 The legal papers of adoption 875 00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:15,340 on 16 June 1952. 876 00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:21,180 I did feel a shame around it. 877 00:45:21,180 --> 00:45:21,420 Why was I given up? I did feel a shame around it. 878 00:45:21,420 --> 00:45:24,740 Why was I given up? What was wrong with me? 879 00:45:29,220 --> 00:45:31,900 Once I was making my own way in life, 880 00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:35,300 I just put out to the Adoptions Register... 881 00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:35,540 I just put out You could put your name down 882 00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:37,260 You could put your name down 883 00:45:37,260 --> 00:45:37,500 and if your birth parent You could put your name down 884 00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:41,860 and if your birth parent put their name down as well, 885 00:45:41,860 --> 00:45:42,100 and if your birth parent they would match you up. 886 00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:43,780 they would match you up. 887 00:45:45,620 --> 00:45:48,900 "I regret there's no other information available." 888 00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:50,340 So that told me 889 00:45:50,340 --> 00:45:56,180 that my mum hadn't put her name on the register at that time. 890 00:45:56,180 --> 00:45:56,420 that my mum hadn't put her name So, that was in '83. 891 00:45:56,420 --> 00:45:58,660 So, that was in '83. 892 00:45:58,660 --> 00:46:00,860 So I was 31. 893 00:46:03,020 --> 00:46:04,620 I was teaching. 894 00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:08,580 I'd done my uni degree and done a DipEd. 895 00:46:10,860 --> 00:46:13,060 I went to a fair one day 896 00:46:13,060 --> 00:46:16,540 and I was walking through, and I was taken by some crafts 897 00:46:16,540 --> 00:46:16,780 and I was walking through, and the person who was selling them 898 00:46:16,780 --> 00:46:18,500 and the person who was selling them 899 00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:21,940 was one of my former best friends from school. 900 00:46:21,940 --> 00:46:26,500 And G was there as well, who was the leader of the group, 901 00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:32,580 and he said, "Why don't you invite your nice friend around for dinner?" 902 00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:36,380 He lent me a book, which felt like a coming home for me. 903 00:46:36,380 --> 00:46:36,620 He lent me a book, It was In Search Of The Miraculous. 904 00:46:36,620 --> 00:46:38,980 It was In Search Of The Miraculous. 905 00:46:40,100 --> 00:46:46,460 I really loved the ideas in it about essence and personality, 906 00:46:46,460 --> 00:46:50,780 and I think this is where it twinned in a lot with my adoption. 907 00:46:50,780 --> 00:46:56,940 And I trusted this friend of mine, and started going to meetings. 908 00:46:56,940 --> 00:47:01,500 The group was based on the teachings of Gurdjieff. 909 00:47:04,820 --> 00:47:08,780 The group appealed to me for a couple of different reasons. 910 00:47:08,780 --> 00:47:13,740 I felt I'd found the truth, in terms of esoteric knowledge. 911 00:47:14,860 --> 00:47:17,180 It was like an extended family. 912 00:47:17,180 --> 00:47:22,940 It felt unconditional, in terms of acceptance of me as a person 913 00:47:22,940 --> 00:47:26,420 and I hadn't come across that before, so it was quite powerful. 914 00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:33,940 My relationship with G, initially, was just purely the ideas. 915 00:47:33,940 --> 00:47:37,420 I was a very good pupil, a good student. 916 00:47:37,420 --> 00:47:41,580 But then, it gradually got more involved 917 00:47:41,580 --> 00:47:45,340 and at one point, I found I was pregnant 918 00:47:45,340 --> 00:47:50,860 and he said, "Well, good, because nobody else would give you a baby. 919 00:47:50,860 --> 00:47:53,780 "You know, you're in your 30s, who would want to...?" 920 00:47:56,500 --> 00:48:00,300 When I had my firstborn, I remember holding her there 921 00:48:00,300 --> 00:48:00,540 When I had my firstborn, and making a pledge that this man 922 00:48:00,540 --> 00:48:04,060 and making a pledge that this man 923 00:48:04,060 --> 00:48:08,020 would never come between our close relationship. 924 00:48:09,860 --> 00:48:12,860 I had two children with G 925 00:48:12,860 --> 00:48:13,100 and it was the most beautiful I had two children with G 926 00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:18,020 and it was the most beautiful experience, being a mother. 927 00:48:18,020 --> 00:48:18,260 and it was the most beautiful Ahhh. 928 00:48:18,260 --> 00:48:20,580 Ahhh. 929 00:48:22,780 --> 00:48:27,060 Once we moved interstate, it was much more isolated. 930 00:48:27,060 --> 00:48:28,980 It became very negative. 931 00:48:28,980 --> 00:48:33,500 Something changed in the dynamic in the group 932 00:48:33,500 --> 00:48:36,180 and I became very picked on. 933 00:48:36,180 --> 00:48:39,780 All of my faults were paraded in front of everybody 934 00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:43,820 and I knew I had to leave, I knew I had to get out. 935 00:48:45,020 --> 00:48:46,580 And it took me a few years 936 00:48:46,580 --> 00:48:51,980 to plan and scheme my way out of it with my girls, 937 00:48:51,980 --> 00:48:52,220 to plan and scheme my way out of it but we got away. 938 00:48:52,220 --> 00:48:53,500 but we got away. 939 00:48:58,380 --> 00:49:02,940 I was in the group for 24 years. 940 00:49:04,540 --> 00:49:07,420 And I've often said that I learnt more in the leaving 941 00:49:07,420 --> 00:49:07,660 And I've often said that than I did being in the group. Yeah. 942 00:49:07,660 --> 00:49:11,100 than I did being in the group. Yeah. 943 00:49:11,100 --> 00:49:11,340 I've just got to cut the cake, than I did being in the group. Yeah. 944 00:49:11,340 --> 00:49:14,580 I've just got to cut the cake, darling, as you may know. 945 00:49:14,580 --> 00:49:14,820 I've just got to cut the cake, I know. 946 00:49:14,820 --> 00:49:16,060 I know. 947 00:49:16,060 --> 00:49:21,580 While I was still in the group, I was still looking for my mother 948 00:49:21,580 --> 00:49:25,180 and then received this news that she was dead. 949 00:49:26,220 --> 00:49:32,540 One of the group members returning to my home town, 950 00:49:32,540 --> 00:49:38,460 he got a copy of the divorce papers, just the first page, 951 00:49:38,460 --> 00:49:38,700 he got a copy of the divorce papers, and on it, it said that she had died 952 00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:41,660 and on it, it said that she had died 953 00:49:41,660 --> 00:49:46,500 but the husband continued with the divorce 954 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:50,300 and so I came to believe that my mother was dead. 955 00:49:51,780 --> 00:49:54,300 Once I had got away from the group, 956 00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:56,980 I had a light bulb moment of, 957 00:49:56,980 --> 00:49:57,220 "Maybe I was lied to I had a light bulb moment of, 958 00:49:57,220 --> 00:50:02,660 "Maybe I was lied to and maybe my mother's still alive." 959 00:50:02,660 --> 00:50:06,220 So I just rang up the adoption register again 960 00:50:06,220 --> 00:50:06,460 So I just rang up and put forward my new details 961 00:50:06,460 --> 00:50:10,380 and put forward my new details 962 00:50:10,380 --> 00:50:13,700 and within an hour, they rang me back 963 00:50:13,700 --> 00:50:18,220 and said, "Yes, your mother would love to talk to you." 964 00:50:22,460 --> 00:50:25,660 When I first saw her, it was absolutely amazing. 965 00:50:25,660 --> 00:50:29,300 It was like things just fell into place. 966 00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:32,980 You know, she has a similar smile to me. 967 00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:34,380 Um... 968 00:50:42,820 --> 00:50:46,220 Sorry. It was really wonderful, yeah. 969 00:50:46,220 --> 00:50:51,060 It was really nice. And we hugged, and she cried, I cried. 970 00:50:51,060 --> 00:50:56,100 And we talked and talked and talked, so it was good. 971 00:50:56,100 --> 00:51:00,180 (CHUCKLES) But too late, you know. I was 50. 972 00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:11,380 Adoption is... 973 00:51:11,380 --> 00:51:13,820 ..something I've come to terms with 974 00:51:13,820 --> 00:51:14,060 and I guess, in a way, ..something I've come to terms with 975 00:51:14,060 --> 00:51:17,940 and I guess, in a way, you come back to who you really are, 976 00:51:17,940 --> 00:51:18,180 and I guess, in a way, who you always were. 977 00:51:18,180 --> 00:51:20,420 who you always were. 978 00:51:20,420 --> 00:51:23,140 As a child, I felt vulnerable, 979 00:51:23,140 --> 00:51:25,140 I felt... 980 00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:30,340 ..that I needed that protection or love of a mother. 981 00:51:30,340 --> 00:51:34,620 And I guess, through my life and through things I've been through 982 00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:37,180 and then becoming a mother myself, 983 00:51:37,180 --> 00:51:44,540 I just feel part of the universal sort of mothering type, really. 984 00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:50,580 I'm really excited about becoming a grandmother. 985 00:51:50,580 --> 00:51:55,940 I have a feeling that I will have a very fierce love for this new child 986 00:51:55,940 --> 00:51:56,180 I have a feeling that I will have a coming into our family. 987 00:51:56,180 --> 00:51:58,820 coming into our family. 988 00:51:58,820 --> 00:52:00,940 It's all fine. 989 00:52:00,940 --> 00:52:01,180 (HICCUPS) Yeah. It's all fine. 990 00:52:01,180 --> 00:52:02,500 (HICCUPS) Yeah. 991 00:52:03,460 --> 00:52:05,020 (HICCUPS) Yeah. 992 00:52:27,460 --> 00:52:29,100 MAN: You got it? 993 00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:30,860 Four minutes to stay within curfew. 994 00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:31,100 Door, ten. Four minutes to stay within curfew. 995 00:52:31,100 --> 00:52:33,140 Door, ten. Wait, we're on in four minutes? 996 00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:33,380 Door, ten. Ten minutes. 997 00:52:33,380 --> 00:52:34,660 Ten minutes. 998 00:52:34,660 --> 00:52:37,060 We're on in four minutes? 999 00:52:38,740 --> 00:52:43,460 When we started this band, I think I was 21, 22 maybe. 1000 00:52:43,460 --> 00:52:46,420 Zaac would have been 19 and Elliott would have been 17, 1001 00:52:46,420 --> 00:52:46,660 Zaac would have been 19 so still in high school. 1002 00:52:46,660 --> 00:52:48,100 so still in high school. 1003 00:52:48,100 --> 00:52:52,780 And we all never would have imagined that we'd play... 1004 00:52:52,780 --> 00:52:53,020 And we all never would have imagined ..any Sydney venue, really. 1005 00:52:53,020 --> 00:52:55,020 ..any Sydney venue, really. 1006 00:52:55,020 --> 00:52:57,020 Like, let alone this place. 1007 00:52:57,020 --> 00:53:00,420 And it's not lost on us. Like, it's crazy. 1008 00:53:00,420 --> 00:53:03,420 I feel like I should be nervous, but I'm not nervous yet. 1009 00:53:03,420 --> 00:53:06,620 But now I can feel the nerves burning up inside. 1010 00:53:06,620 --> 00:53:06,860 But now I can feel the nerves (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 1011 00:53:06,860 --> 00:53:09,020 (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 1012 00:53:09,020 --> 00:53:11,260 We are the Rubens. 1013 00:53:11,260 --> 00:53:14,580 Let's hear it for the Rubens! You know what, let's bring them in. 1014 00:53:14,580 --> 00:53:14,820 Let's hear it for the Rubens! Hey! Hey! Come on in. 1015 00:53:14,820 --> 00:53:16,260 Hey! Hey! Come on in. 1016 00:53:16,260 --> 00:53:18,220 (CHEERING) Come on in. 1017 00:53:19,820 --> 00:53:22,180 Good to see you. Good to see you. 1018 00:53:22,180 --> 00:53:23,740 How are ya? Great. 1019 00:53:23,740 --> 00:53:26,980 You just finished a tour with Pink. Has it been a bit of a whirlwind? 1020 00:53:26,980 --> 00:53:29,500 Yeah, it's been... I don't know, I feel like 1021 00:53:29,500 --> 00:53:31,820 since we started this band, it's been a whirlwind, so much fun. 1022 00:53:33,220 --> 00:53:36,220 I think it is strange because people would hear siblings in band 1023 00:53:36,220 --> 00:53:38,460 and assume that we're just this family 1024 00:53:38,460 --> 00:53:41,740 that played music together growing up and everyone was singing together 1025 00:53:41,740 --> 00:53:41,980 that played music together growing up and it was just this musical family. 1026 00:53:41,980 --> 00:53:43,980 and it was just this musical family. 1027 00:53:43,980 --> 00:53:45,580 But it wasn't, you know? 1028 00:53:45,580 --> 00:53:48,820 And we did play instruments by ourselves in our bedrooms growing up, 1029 00:53:48,820 --> 00:53:49,060 And we did play instruments by but we never once played together. 1030 00:53:49,060 --> 00:53:50,420 but we never once played together. 1031 00:54:15,020 --> 00:54:17,220 I think Mum and Dad just gave us 1032 00:54:17,220 --> 00:54:20,220 a pretty calm and quiet and happy childhood 1033 00:54:20,220 --> 00:54:23,460 and having six kids in the family, we were always busy, 1034 00:54:23,460 --> 00:54:24,740 we were always having fun. 1035 00:54:24,740 --> 00:54:28,020 And forcing us to play music too. Forcing us to play music. 1036 00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:30,620 Forcing us to learn an instrument at the start when we were kids. 1037 00:54:30,620 --> 00:54:33,140 I mean, everyone in the family learnt an instrument at some point. 1038 00:54:33,140 --> 00:54:36,100 It was just a thing that they thought would be good for you 1039 00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:38,140 as you grow and learn, you should learn an instrument 1040 00:54:38,140 --> 00:54:40,180 and probably it's good to play a team sport. 1041 00:54:40,180 --> 00:54:40,420 and probably it's good to play Just that kind of traditional thing. 1042 00:54:40,420 --> 00:54:41,540 Just that kind of traditional thing. 1043 00:54:41,540 --> 00:54:43,900 And I think it's true. I think it's great. 1044 00:54:43,900 --> 00:54:46,140 But that sort of sowed the seed of, like, music for us, 1045 00:54:46,140 --> 00:54:47,300 you know, early on. 1046 00:54:48,780 --> 00:54:51,500 Those three boys really taught themselves 1047 00:54:51,500 --> 00:54:51,740 Those three boys a lot of their own instruments. 1048 00:54:51,740 --> 00:54:53,500 a lot of their own instruments. 1049 00:54:53,500 --> 00:54:53,740 a lot of their own instruments. You'd say, "What do you want to do when you grow up?" 1050 00:54:53,740 --> 00:54:55,500 You'd say, "What do you want to do when you grow up?" 1051 00:54:55,500 --> 00:54:55,740 You'd say, "What do you want to do "I want to be in a band." 1052 00:54:55,740 --> 00:54:57,620 "I want to be in a band." 1053 00:54:57,620 --> 00:55:00,820 We uploaded to Triple J our first demo 1054 00:55:00,820 --> 00:55:04,700 and it wasn't until we heard that it was on the radio that I thought that, 1055 00:55:04,700 --> 00:55:07,420 "Oh, OK, now we can actually have a crack at this." 1056 00:55:07,420 --> 00:55:09,620 Like, it was just something we were doing for fun. 1057 00:55:09,620 --> 00:55:09,860 Like, it was just something We hadn't even jammed together ever 1058 00:55:09,860 --> 00:55:12,100 We hadn't even jammed together ever 1059 00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:15,700 until 2011, when we first played together. 1060 00:55:15,700 --> 00:55:17,740 It wasn't ever something that we did. 1061 00:55:17,740 --> 00:55:19,980 I didn't even know Zaac could play guitar. 1062 00:55:19,980 --> 00:55:24,940 Here is number 2 at Triple J's hottest 100 of 2015. 1063 00:55:24,940 --> 00:55:28,300 (GASPS) Number two! In Triple J's hottest 100. 1064 00:55:28,300 --> 00:55:28,540 (GASPS) Number two! So nearly there. 1065 00:55:28,540 --> 00:55:29,540 So nearly there. 1066 00:55:33,420 --> 00:55:34,860 What?! 1067 00:55:34,860 --> 00:55:36,700 No way! 1068 00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:38,380 (ALL SCREAM AND LAUGH) 1069 00:55:38,380 --> 00:55:39,820 Oh, my God! 1070 00:55:39,820 --> 00:55:40,060 I think it was the pivotal point Oh, my God! 1071 00:55:40,060 --> 00:55:42,780 I think it was the pivotal point because it got us in the door 1072 00:55:42,780 --> 00:55:47,540 with radio stations and got us record label interest, 1073 00:55:47,540 --> 00:55:50,340 which obviously then took us to the next pivotal point 1074 00:55:50,340 --> 00:55:53,100 which was Hoops winning the Hottest 100. 1075 00:55:54,740 --> 00:56:00,780 I think I realised that they had talent, or something could happen, 1076 00:56:00,780 --> 00:56:03,740 the first time I went around and I saw them rehearsing 1077 00:56:03,740 --> 00:56:07,580 and I came back and said to Allie, "They actually sound really good." 1078 00:56:07,580 --> 00:56:07,820 and I came back and said to Allie, (CHUCKLES) I was quite surprised. 1079 00:56:07,820 --> 00:56:09,820 (CHUCKLES) I was quite surprised. 1080 00:56:09,820 --> 00:56:10,060 They knew whether they sounded good (CHUCKLES) I was quite surprised. 1081 00:56:10,060 --> 00:56:12,860 They knew whether they sounded good or not, I think that's a big thing. 1082 00:56:12,860 --> 00:56:13,100 They knew whether they sounded good I think sometimes people don't know 1083 00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:14,740 I think sometimes people don't know 1084 00:56:14,740 --> 00:56:17,340 and parents don't want to tell them if they're not sounding good. 1085 00:56:17,340 --> 00:56:20,340 We don't really fight. Do we fight? I don't think we fight. 1086 00:56:20,340 --> 00:56:21,260 Most that would happen would be 1087 00:56:21,260 --> 00:56:23,220 someone would say something under their breath 1088 00:56:23,220 --> 00:56:23,460 someone would say something or someone gets slightly pissed off 1089 00:56:23,460 --> 00:56:24,700 or someone gets slightly pissed off 1090 00:56:24,700 --> 00:56:26,300 and then realise, "Oh, I'm a bit pissed off, 1091 00:56:26,300 --> 00:56:28,860 "I'm gonna leave for a second," then come back and everything's fine. 1092 00:56:28,860 --> 00:56:29,660 It doesn't... It's... 1093 00:56:29,660 --> 00:56:31,300 But I still can't even picture that happening. 1094 00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:31,540 But I still can't even No. I know. I know. 1095 00:56:31,540 --> 00:56:32,540 No. I know. I know. 1096 00:56:32,540 --> 00:56:34,540 (PLAYS 'LAY IT DOWN') 1097 00:56:39,540 --> 00:56:41,540 Family for me feels like 1098 00:56:41,540 --> 00:56:45,780 people you can just sit with and just not say anything. 1099 00:56:45,780 --> 00:56:49,500 You don't have to fill the silence with small talk. 1100 00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:52,980 We can come here, back to Menangle, and have coffee 1101 00:56:52,980 --> 00:56:56,940 or have a family lunch and not have to talk about anything. 1102 00:56:58,540 --> 00:57:02,500 ALLIE: I feel like it's amazing, seeing them as performers 1103 00:57:02,500 --> 00:57:05,580 and seeing the joy that they bring to people 1104 00:57:05,580 --> 00:57:07,300 and to think that that is their job. 1105 00:57:08,260 --> 00:57:10,780 I can't speak for all siblings working in different jobs 1106 00:57:10,780 --> 00:57:11,020 I can't speak for all siblings 'cause our job is quite unique... 1107 00:57:11,020 --> 00:57:14,580 'cause our job is quite unique... 1108 00:57:14,580 --> 00:57:16,460 I think it's great. 1109 00:57:16,460 --> 00:57:17,820 We have a great time. 1110 00:57:17,820 --> 00:57:19,660 Luckily, we really enjoy what we do. 1111 00:57:19,660 --> 00:57:23,020 That's the biggest thing I think, is that we love what we do. 1112 00:57:23,020 --> 00:57:23,260 That's the biggest thing I think, (BAND PLAYS 'LAY IT DOWN') 1113 00:57:23,260 --> 00:57:24,740 (BAND PLAYS 'LAY IT DOWN') 1114 00:57:26,900 --> 00:57:31,660 # Oh, so, I said I'd speak the truth 1115 00:57:31,660 --> 00:57:35,740 # But I didn't think it'd be to you 1116 00:57:35,740 --> 00:57:39,900 # I guess I'm sorry I had to lay it down... # 1117 00:57:39,900 --> 00:57:42,420 Actually, Lay It Down is one of those moments 1118 00:57:42,420 --> 00:57:44,780 because it's like this throwback song to where it all began 1119 00:57:44,780 --> 00:57:45,020 because it's like this throwback song and I always remember that. 1120 00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:46,300 and I always remember that. 1121 00:57:46,300 --> 00:57:48,380 There's like the middle eight part of that song 1122 00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:50,500 where I just get on the guitar and we just play 1123 00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:52,780 and I always just end up standing and smiling at the audience 1124 00:57:52,780 --> 00:57:53,020 and I always just end up standing and just have the biggest grin. 1125 00:57:53,020 --> 00:57:54,260 and just have the biggest grin. 1126 00:57:55,860 --> 00:58:00,420 # I'm not liking where it's leading 1127 00:58:00,420 --> 00:58:03,060 # Or who it's leading to 1128 00:58:04,780 --> 00:58:09,300 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1129 00:58:09,300 --> 00:58:09,500 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1130 00:58:09,500 --> 00:58:13,500 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1131 00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:13,700 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1132 00:58:13,700 --> 00:58:18,020 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1133 00:58:18,020 --> 00:58:18,220 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1134 00:58:18,220 --> 00:58:21,820 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1135 00:58:46,940 --> 00:58:51,260 # 'Cause it's CROWD: # you-oo-oo-oo 1136 00:58:51,260 --> 00:58:55,540 # 'Cause it's # You-oo-oo-oo 1137 00:58:55,540 --> 00:58:55,780 # 'Cause it's # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1138 00:58:55,780 --> 00:59:00,260 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo 1139 00:59:00,260 --> 00:59:01,740 # Oo-ooh 1140 00:59:04,860 --> 00:59:09,220 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo, ah 1141 00:59:09,220 --> 00:59:13,740 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo, ah, ah 1142 00:59:13,740 --> 00:59:17,820 # 'Cause it's you-oo-oo-oo. # 1143 00:59:19,180 --> 00:59:21,460 (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 1144 00:59:21,460 --> 00:59:23,340 Captions by Red Bee Media 1145 00:59:23,340 --> 00:59:25,820 Copyright Australian Broadcasting Corporation