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[silence]

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[car horns]

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[distant siren]

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[train clatters over tracks]

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[indistinct chatter]

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[buzzer, door opens]

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[door closes]

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[footsteps on stairs]

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All of this talent, and all of
this equipment, for...

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for zero! [laughter]

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You guys are wasting your time!

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And all I can think...
That would send me up the wall!

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[***]

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[***]

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NARRATOR:  In 1978,
on a cold December day,

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an older woman walking down
the street in New York City

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caught the very keen eye

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of then 49-year-old
photographer Bill Cunningham.

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The woman,
pictured here years earlier,

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was wearing a Nutria coat.

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That's what he saw first.

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And while he may have been
all about the coat,

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and how it was cut
and draped over the shoulder,

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the photo he took of that woman,
named Greta Garbo,

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appeared the next day
on the front cover

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of the Metropolitan Report
of The New York Times.

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[***]

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Bill Cunningham.

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The Nostradamus of fashion
and society for over 60 years.

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Every Sunday,
for nearly 40 of those years,

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his two pages
of photos and commentary

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in The New York Times
were wildly popular.

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[***]

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He, and his bicycle
and blue jacket,

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would become the most famous,
and to his great dismay,

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most recognizable street
and society photographer

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and fashion historian
in the world.

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In 1994,

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long before his bicycle
and blue jacket made him famous,

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he sat down for an interview

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for what he said
would be "just 10 minutes,"

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for an award he was receiving.

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The interviewer was Mark Bozek,
a young, rookie producer.

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All this cockamanie nonsense,
no French wouldn't do that.

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It would have to be someone of
academic standing or,

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you know, a scientist or a...

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[chuckles]

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Someone who happened
to have seen a couple of dresses

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on a runway.

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[sighs]

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I mean it's something I like,
but it's certainly --

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I think it's, I've always felt

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it's the first thing
you should get rid of.

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My end of it.

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Newspaper,
that's what's killing it!

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Go back to real news!

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Instead of all this...

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filling around the ads,
you know.

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[laughter]

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I used to get people wild
down at The Times.

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The reporters, everyone-- people
would get terribly serious,

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and I'd say, "Well, we're just
filling around the ads."

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The grocery ads.

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[laughter]

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[***]

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[cheers and applause]

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NARRATOR:
William John Cunningham

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grew up in the shadows
of Boston's Fenway Park.

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He and his brother
and two sisters

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were raised by William
and Mary Anne Cunningham,

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who came from a long line
of conservative Catholics.

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His father worked
for the post office

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and his mother
firmly ran the household.

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The family attended
Catholic mass

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at Holy Name Church
in West Roxbury, Massachusetts.

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From an early age,

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Cunningham would remember
being distracted

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by the fashionable hats
ladies wore to church.

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His 1947 high school yearbook

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listed his ambition
as "Politician".

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His hobbies: "Airplanes".

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BILL: No, Boston.

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I think I came here
when I was nineteen.

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And I lived
with an aunt and uncle.

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Otherwise I could never have...

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my family wouldn't have
allowed me to... you know,

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they're very quiet people...

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I came, well,
because at that time I was,

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let's see, I must have come
here in 1949.

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[***]

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And I had a job at Bonwit's
over Teller's in Boston,

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an after-school job, in '47.

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Then,
the people at Bonwit's said,

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"Well,
why don't you come to New York,

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see how do you like
working down there?"

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And of course I loved it.

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Because, the interest
in the fashion world --

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this is where it all was!
[laughter]

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'Cause there was nowhere
else to go, this was it.

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[jazz music]

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NARRATOR:  After first arriving
in New York in 1949

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he became a milliner:
a hat designer.

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He didn't use his last name

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because he felt
his conservative Boston family

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wouldn't approve
of his line of work.

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He was known then
simply as "William J."

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He made hats for Ginger Rogers,

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Joan Crawford,

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Marilyn Monroe,

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and other famous stars
and socialites of the day.

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BILL: My family was, they were
all, couldn't believe--you know,

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what's this kind of nonsense,
no one just leaves, you know.

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And so I had a... an aunt
and uncle who lived here

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and the family thought--well
they were frightened first off

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I think because
it was the fashion business.

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I wouldn't know,
they were very private people,

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they wouldn't say but the...
yeah.

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I think that bothered them.

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Fashion has always been,
and I don't know why,

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because I don't think we had...

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fashion magazines
around our home.

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My mother and my sisters
were...

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I don't think that was
their main concern...

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they, you know,
had other interests.

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But how I got into it--
I don't, I haven't got a clue.

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But I know I was fooling around
as a kid making hats,

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I think about 1939.

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I would have been ten years old.

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As I recall, the first time
I ever fooled around

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and actually made something,

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because I was always
doing decorative things,

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but I made a hat
because I had some idea

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that my mother was going--

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she was coming
to the World's Fair.

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And I thought, "Oh gee"...

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and went to the dime store,
you know,

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and brought these things

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and put a thing together,
and so it would have been '39.

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No. I'm sure not, no no no...

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[laughter]

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No, they were...

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I had... marvelous parents who
were... rather conservative.

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I guess it was because
it was something

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you could do yourself,
with you hands

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MARK: Mm-hm.

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Don't ask--
I haven't got a clue why,

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I mean no one in my family
ever been in this...

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these areas
or anything of the sort.

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I was first working

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in the advertising
department at Bonwit's.

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So they thought
that was alright. [laughing]

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And it was only--only supposed
to be for a short while.

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Then of course what happened was

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I was working in the advertising
department doing that and then

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there was a custom
millinery salon in Bonwit's

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and the designer,
a European woman,

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wonderful woman,

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and I was down because
I was interested to see

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how they do things
and make things

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and she encouraged me
to come in on Saturdays

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when the workroom
wasn't busy and learn the trade.

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And that's what I did.

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It's fairly simple.

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I didn't make them well,

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but that's how I learned,
started off.

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[***]

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There was a lease department
called Chez Ninon...

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they were private dressmakers

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and Bonwit's
would lease them the space.

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And they had
a very grand clientele,

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they dressed every Astor,

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every Vanderbilt,
Rockefeller in New York.

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Everyone.

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They had been in business,
two women, since 1929.

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And what happened was

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right after
the post-World War period

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there were a lot of big fêtes
and fancy dress balls.

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And they said,

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"Oh Bill, our clients
need something to wear

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to this big ball,
would you whip something up?"

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"Oh," I thought,
"that's terrific... "

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You know,
you could use your imagination,

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it was fantasy,

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that's how it started,
I did these things.

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[***]

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Well, as a matter of fact,
I was fired from Bonwit's

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just for that reason.

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At one of these events
someone said,

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"Oh Mrs. Pauline" and that was
Walter Hoving's wife's name,

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"Oh, it's that darning
young man at Chez Ninon

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made us these marvelous--"
and she says, "What young man?"

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and she was furious that it
wasn't someone from Bonwit's...

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that you know... here I was
in the advertising department

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and I was doing this
on the side.

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BILL: Yes, yes.

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So that was the best thing
they ever did, was fire me.

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Then I went out
and started on my own.

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[laughter]

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00:10:15,282 --> 00:10:17,851
BILL: At this point my aunt
and uncle were very upset

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because they could see
I was definitely not moving

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in the advertising direction,

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and so they
wouldn't help me at all.

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[***]

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So what I did was I remember
walking around the streets

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looking for empty windows
and if I saw an empty window

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I would go and inquire if
there was a room for rent.

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00:10:34,534 --> 00:10:37,270
[laughter]
A pretty naïve thing to do!

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But, you know, I was pretty
dumb about those things.

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00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,643
At any rate, on 52nd Street,
just off Madison Avenue,

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00:10:43,677 --> 00:10:45,746
this row of little houses...

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and I saw went I went in

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and a young secretary
at a desk--receptionist said,

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00:10:51,685 --> 00:10:53,854
"What do you mean you want
a room to make hats in?"

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00:10:54,254 --> 00:10:56,556
I said, "Well,
I need a room to make hats in

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00:10:56,757 --> 00:10:58,125
but how much would the room be?"

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and "I don't know,
I don't have any money,

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but I'm going to make some."

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00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:02,129
And she said to me,

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00:11:02,963 --> 00:11:04,364
"Come back tomorrow."

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00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:07,067
And I did come back,
and she said,

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00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:10,303
"Listen, there's a room
on the top floor

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00:11:10,838 --> 00:11:12,339
and they need a janitor."

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00:11:12,806 --> 00:11:14,041
[laughter]

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00:11:14,074 --> 00:11:16,777
And she said, "I'll tell them
you'll be the janitor

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00:11:16,810 --> 00:11:18,211
to clean the little house

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00:11:18,245 --> 00:11:20,213
and you'll get the room
rent free."

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And that's what happened.

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00:11:22,282 --> 00:11:25,185
I was still living up
on Park Avenue

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00:11:25,218 --> 00:11:27,187
with my aunt and uncle, but...

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MARK: This was
a little place you could do--

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00:11:28,856 --> 00:11:31,224
Yeah, they were--
I was pretty much leaving

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00:11:31,258 --> 00:11:35,295
by the service entrance
at that point.

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00:11:35,328 --> 00:11:36,730
[laughing]

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00:11:41,368 --> 00:11:44,704
BILL: I worked at night
at Howard Johnson's

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00:11:44,738 --> 00:11:47,407
and did different jobs around
and I used to deliver lunches--

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00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,575
there was a...

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00:11:49,209 --> 00:11:52,545
lunch... drugstore
on the corner of 52nd Street,

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00:11:52,579 --> 00:11:55,883
that's where I found this, and
Madison, at lunchtime, and...

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00:11:55,916 --> 00:11:58,318
people in the millinery district
remember, they said,

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00:11:58,351 --> 00:11:59,519
"Oh, he'd come down
in the morning

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00:11:59,552 --> 00:12:01,088
with all the dimes
and nickels to pay

244
00:12:01,121 --> 00:12:04,157
for whatever he was... buying."

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00:12:04,524 --> 00:12:05,959
MARK: Do you remember
meeting Bernadine

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00:12:05,993 --> 00:12:07,194
when she came by to look?

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00:12:07,460 --> 00:12:10,764
BILL: No, I met Bernadine later
when I went to Women's Wear

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00:12:10,798 --> 00:12:12,099
and they wanted to see

249
00:12:12,132 --> 00:12:14,701
some of the hats
and write about them and...

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00:12:15,803 --> 00:12:20,140
the head of Women's Wear
said to Bernadine,

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00:12:20,173 --> 00:12:21,942
"I want you
to interview a milliner,

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00:12:21,975 --> 00:12:23,777
he's coming down, William J."

253
00:12:23,811 --> 00:12:27,647
And she--Bernadine saw me come
in with all of these hat boxes

254
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:29,850
and she said,
"Oh, just leave the boxes here.

255
00:12:29,883 --> 00:12:32,252
When will William J be around?"
and I said, "Oh, that's me!"

256
00:12:32,719 --> 00:12:34,754
[***]

257
00:12:34,788 --> 00:12:37,958
NARRATOR:  In the mid-1950's,
Cunningham would move

258
00:12:37,991 --> 00:12:40,293
into the famed
Carnegie Hall Studios

259
00:12:40,327 --> 00:12:42,830
and live there
for the next 50 years.

260
00:12:44,697 --> 00:12:46,266
For many of those years,

261
00:12:46,299 --> 00:12:49,837
his apartment consisted
of a tiny room with a small loft

262
00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:52,072
that was crammed
with file cabinets

263
00:12:52,105 --> 00:12:54,441
full of his photos
and negatives.

264
00:12:55,242 --> 00:12:57,344
He slept on a single mattress

265
00:12:57,377 --> 00:13:00,213
on top of many more
of his photos and negatives

266
00:13:00,247 --> 00:13:01,648
and he shared a bathroom

267
00:13:01,681 --> 00:13:03,851
with everyone
on the twelfth floor.

268
00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:08,721
[***]

269
00:13:10,523 --> 00:13:12,960
NARRATOR:  The history
of the Carnegie Hall Studios,

270
00:13:12,993 --> 00:13:15,795
built in 1894
by Andrew Carnegie,

271
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:17,464
was compassionately told

272
00:13:17,497 --> 00:13:20,800
in Josef Astor's 2010 film,
Lost Bohemia.

273
00:13:22,269 --> 00:13:24,437
In no other single location

274
00:13:24,471 --> 00:13:27,941
had such an extraordinary group
of artists ever been gathered.

275
00:13:28,942 --> 00:13:31,979
His neighbors included
composer Leonard Bernstein

276
00:13:32,012 --> 00:13:33,981
and author Paddy Chayefsky.

277
00:13:34,882 --> 00:13:37,885
Client Marilyn Monroe
tried on Cunningham's hats

278
00:13:37,918 --> 00:13:39,652
while waiting
for Lee Strasberg's

279
00:13:39,686 --> 00:13:41,288
Actor's Studio classes.

280
00:13:42,022 --> 00:13:43,857
Katharine Hepburn
waited in the halls

281
00:13:43,891 --> 00:13:45,225
for her voice coach.

282
00:13:45,792 --> 00:13:47,727
Bobby Short played the piano.

283
00:13:48,862 --> 00:13:50,797
Martha Graham
and George Balanchine

284
00:13:50,830 --> 00:13:52,499
danced and choreographed.

285
00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:54,701
[***]

286
00:13:54,902 --> 00:13:57,804
Jessica Lange
slept on Cunningham's couch.

287
00:13:58,005 --> 00:14:01,208
Judy Garland would belt out
songs from the rooftop.

288
00:14:02,042 --> 00:14:04,744
And Marlon Brando
and his friend and fellow actor

289
00:14:04,777 --> 00:14:06,679
Wally Cox shared a studio.

290
00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:09,849
At the height of Brando's
popularity in the '50s,

291
00:14:09,883 --> 00:14:12,352
he would hide out
in Cunningham's apartment

292
00:14:12,385 --> 00:14:15,555
to avoid the crush of women
attempting to get to him.

293
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:18,558
BILL: Well, Marlon Brando's
studio was where--

294
00:14:18,591 --> 00:14:21,528
lets see, we're on nine...
on eight,

295
00:14:21,561 --> 00:14:23,030
until the girls
broke the door down,

296
00:14:23,063 --> 00:14:24,197
then he moved out.

297
00:14:25,765 --> 00:14:27,400
Trying to get to him.

298
00:14:27,834 --> 00:14:29,202
And then they broke
the door down,

299
00:14:29,236 --> 00:14:31,204
because they were
at that time wooden doors.

300
00:14:31,538 --> 00:14:33,173
NARRATOR:  In the early '60s

301
00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:34,507
author Norman Mailer

302
00:14:34,541 --> 00:14:37,077
and his third wife
Lady Jean Campbell

303
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:39,446
actually shared
a studio with Cunningham.

304
00:14:40,047 --> 00:14:41,681
Oh no, I did that
when Lady Jean was there,

305
00:14:41,714 --> 00:14:44,017
I finally let Mailer and her
have the whole thing,

306
00:14:44,317 --> 00:14:45,885
because a woman
that was working with me--

307
00:14:45,919 --> 00:14:47,854
one morning,
Mailer came down nude.

308
00:14:48,221 --> 00:14:50,523
[laughing] And the lady
who was working with me said,

309
00:14:50,557 --> 00:14:52,993
"That's the end,
either he goes or I go."

310
00:14:53,026 --> 00:14:54,327
[laughing]

311
00:14:54,361 --> 00:14:57,630
So I gave them
the studio, and [laughing]

312
00:14:57,664 --> 00:15:00,067
I went
and got a studio next door.

313
00:15:00,667 --> 00:15:02,669
And I wasn't there long, and...

314
00:15:03,903 --> 00:15:05,705
Jean said
"Oh, this is terrible, Bill,

315
00:15:05,738 --> 00:15:09,009
we can't have this,
you know, we miss it."

316
00:15:09,242 --> 00:15:11,244
So she said,
"Why do we just knock--"

317
00:15:11,278 --> 00:15:13,746
it was that studio, which
would be right there, the wall.

318
00:15:13,780 --> 00:15:16,149
She said, "Why don't we
make a mouse hole."

319
00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:18,751
So we got a sledgehammer

320
00:15:18,785 --> 00:15:20,287
and we knocked
a hole in the wall

321
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,589
so we could crawl through
to the other studio.

322
00:15:22,990 --> 00:15:24,024
Yeah!

323
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,661
Well, so you wouldn't
have to go outside

324
00:15:28,695 --> 00:15:30,297
in the hallway and... yeah.

325
00:15:32,165 --> 00:15:34,067
I'm afraid I did.

326
00:15:34,101 --> 00:15:36,503
I was as nuts as they were.
[laughing]

327
00:15:38,238 --> 00:15:39,973
NARRATOR:
Perhaps the most celebrated

328
00:15:40,007 --> 00:15:41,574
and most bohemian

329
00:15:41,608 --> 00:15:44,011
was his down-the-hall
neighbor of 50 years,

330
00:15:44,044 --> 00:15:45,445
Editta Sherman,

331
00:15:45,478 --> 00:15:48,615
known to many
as The Duchess of Carnegie Hall.

332
00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:52,119
She was, among many things,
a portrait photographer

333
00:15:52,152 --> 00:15:55,688
and a self-taught ballet dancer
famous for doing

334
00:15:55,722 --> 00:15:58,691
the Dance of The Dying Swan
as a hobby

335
00:15:58,725 --> 00:16:01,561
on the empty stage
of Carnegie Hall.

336
00:16:02,129 --> 00:16:04,497
EDITA: It was closed,
the theatre was closed.

337
00:16:04,531 --> 00:16:06,399
BILL: [laughter]
The house was empty.

338
00:16:06,433 --> 00:16:09,736
Well you know, Life Magazine did
a picture of me in my ballet.

339
00:16:10,137 --> 00:16:11,438
Didn't you see that?

340
00:16:11,471 --> 00:16:14,374
[piano music]

341
00:16:24,451 --> 00:16:26,486
[***]

342
00:16:27,054 --> 00:16:29,556
NARRATOR:  June 4th, 1952.

343
00:16:29,889 --> 00:16:33,626
"Dear Claire, last week
we opened our services club

344
00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:35,562
and really
it is a wonderful place

345
00:16:35,595 --> 00:16:37,064
for the boys to come to

346
00:16:37,097 --> 00:16:39,532
and it has everything
you could want in it

347
00:16:39,566 --> 00:16:41,268
in the line of entertainment.

348
00:16:41,301 --> 00:16:43,136
The Army certainly
spends enough money

349
00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:44,671
to keep the men here happy.

350
00:16:44,704 --> 00:16:47,140
This weekend is going
to be quite exciting for me

351
00:16:47,174 --> 00:16:50,110
as I am going to the Arts
Students ball here in Paris

352
00:16:50,143 --> 00:16:53,480
and I hear it is one of the most
exciting dances of the year.

353
00:16:54,081 --> 00:16:57,584
I am going as a lobster
all covered with fishnet.

354
00:16:57,617 --> 00:16:59,519
Four other friends
are coming too

355
00:16:59,552 --> 00:17:01,488
and we all have dates in Paris.

356
00:17:01,521 --> 00:17:02,822
I am taking Stella.

357
00:17:03,090 --> 00:17:04,391
Love, Bill."

358
00:17:05,092 --> 00:17:07,927
[***]

359
00:17:09,329 --> 00:17:11,498
BILL: When I was in the Army,
when I was in France,

360
00:17:11,531 --> 00:17:14,334
I would always go to the shows
with women and...

361
00:17:14,801 --> 00:17:17,670
I was involved in everything
they were doing and all the...

362
00:17:17,704 --> 00:17:19,172
so forth and so on.

363
00:17:19,206 --> 00:17:22,275
And they would have me

364
00:17:22,509 --> 00:17:26,012
send the clothes
back through the Army Post.

365
00:17:26,546 --> 00:17:28,581
I never thought anything of it,
"Oh, sure I'll send them back,

366
00:17:28,615 --> 00:17:29,916
it's nothing,
I'll take them to the camp."

367
00:17:29,949 --> 00:17:31,984
But of course I was too stupid
to realize they were doing it

368
00:17:32,018 --> 00:17:33,853
so that they wouldn't have
to pay duty!

369
00:17:33,886 --> 00:17:34,821
[laughter]

370
00:17:38,091 --> 00:17:41,228
No, they would make
reproductions of them.

371
00:17:41,261 --> 00:17:41,928
MARK:
They would, so they were...?

372
00:17:42,729 --> 00:17:43,996
In the '30s
they used to buy it

373
00:17:44,030 --> 00:17:46,099
because these were cheaper
in Paris then, Balenciaga,

374
00:17:46,133 --> 00:17:48,535
I can remember they'd buy
six of the same black dress.

375
00:17:49,336 --> 00:17:51,804
- That's what they did, you see,
- MARK: And then what?

376
00:17:51,838 --> 00:17:54,474
BILL: The models
to copy here, you see.

377
00:17:58,378 --> 00:18:00,413
BILL: No, because they used
to send telegrams saying...

378
00:18:00,447 --> 00:18:01,981
and sign them "Aunt So-and-so"

379
00:18:02,014 --> 00:18:03,550
or "Aunt Nona"
and "Aunt Sophie."

380
00:18:03,583 --> 00:18:05,952
Well I don't care,
I get to see the shows in Paris!

381
00:18:06,286 --> 00:18:10,357
You know... the camp,
they didn't care

382
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:12,225
and they'd say,
"Alright, take two weeks off."

383
00:18:15,128 --> 00:18:15,795
Yes.

384
00:18:19,399 --> 00:18:21,334
BILL: Oh, to Paris,
to see the shows. Oh sure.

385
00:18:22,802 --> 00:18:24,771
- BILL: Yes!

386
00:18:24,804 --> 00:18:27,207
No, that was very fortunate...

387
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,008
it was just one
of those flukes, you know.

388
00:18:29,041 --> 00:18:30,510
It was--they went
down the line...

389
00:18:30,543 --> 00:18:32,379
every other one went to Korea

390
00:18:32,412 --> 00:18:33,913
and the other ones
went to Europe.

391
00:18:34,514 --> 00:18:37,617
And so I was studying
French like crazy and they said,

392
00:18:37,650 --> 00:18:39,419
"Do you speak French?"
And I said, "Oh yeah, some... "

393
00:18:39,452 --> 00:18:40,587
And that was it!

394
00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:42,689
I was only there...

395
00:18:42,722 --> 00:18:44,557
it must have been
a matter of months,

396
00:18:44,591 --> 00:18:48,361
and I struck up a conversation
with a woman who ran

397
00:18:48,395 --> 00:18:49,962
a millinery shop
in the little village

398
00:18:49,996 --> 00:18:52,432
where I was stationed
in Rochefort-sur-Mer,

399
00:18:52,632 --> 00:18:56,569
it's on the west coast
of France, and...

400
00:18:56,936 --> 00:18:59,506
a lovely, charming lady,

401
00:18:59,539 --> 00:19:01,107
and she used to let me
come in at night

402
00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:03,009
and I used to make
models and hats,

403
00:19:03,042 --> 00:19:05,412
and then when I'd go up to Paris
I would show them around.

404
00:19:05,445 --> 00:19:08,047
I'd take them to Schiaparelli,
they'd buy a couple...

405
00:19:08,881 --> 00:19:10,350
You know...

406
00:19:10,383 --> 00:19:12,619
I... there were no rules!

407
00:19:16,022 --> 00:19:18,925
No. I don't think so. [laughter]

408
00:19:18,958 --> 00:19:21,093
And I kept it very quiet,
believe me.

409
00:19:21,127 --> 00:19:23,162
- [laughter]
- I'm sure.

410
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,401
- Yes.

411
00:19:33,606 --> 00:19:36,876
["La Vie En Rose" plays]

412
00:19:36,909 --> 00:19:39,512
BILL: I saw my first
Jacques Fath show,

413
00:19:39,546 --> 00:19:41,681
going back now, this is 1951,

414
00:19:41,714 --> 00:19:44,684
with Nona and Sophie
and I--it was fabulous.

415
00:19:45,418 --> 00:19:47,920
[***]

416
00:19:49,322 --> 00:19:52,191
AP:  According to Jacques Fath,
one of the Paris top-notchers,

417
00:19:52,225 --> 00:19:54,827
hips are definitely
being worn this autumn

418
00:19:54,861 --> 00:19:56,829
and waists
are conspicuously minute.

419
00:19:57,029 --> 00:20:00,833
The people that came in there,
the spirit of the designs,

420
00:20:00,867 --> 00:20:06,539
and he was full of zest
and life, it was marvelous.

421
00:20:07,106 --> 00:20:10,910
And Dior was more conservative
for the Chez Ninon client.

422
00:20:10,943 --> 00:20:12,545
I remember at Jacques Fath,
they would--

423
00:20:12,579 --> 00:20:14,013
Nona and Sophie would sit there

424
00:20:14,046 --> 00:20:15,615
and I'd be just dying
a thousand deaths

425
00:20:15,648 --> 00:20:17,517
because it was so wonderful,
and they were thinking,

426
00:20:17,550 --> 00:20:19,252
"Oh, he's going
to lose money on this,

427
00:20:19,286 --> 00:20:20,453
this is terrible, terrible,

428
00:20:20,487 --> 00:20:22,021
he's going to lose
so much money."

429
00:20:22,054 --> 00:20:23,122
[***]

430
00:20:24,291 --> 00:20:27,294
And then the other time was
when I went to Balenciaga,

431
00:20:27,327 --> 00:20:30,029
[woman speaking in French]

432
00:20:30,062 --> 00:20:32,299
everyone was always
coming out of the show,

433
00:20:32,632 --> 00:20:34,701
because the press was in
a month later,

434
00:20:35,134 --> 00:20:37,670
and they were all raving
about a coat or a suit,

435
00:20:37,937 --> 00:20:39,506
"Oh, it was the same thing
as always,"

436
00:20:39,539 --> 00:20:41,574
and, "Lovely this coat,"
or, "that suit."

437
00:20:41,774 --> 00:20:43,776
And I remember
the first time I went,

438
00:20:44,277 --> 00:20:45,612
I couldn't believe it!

439
00:20:45,645 --> 00:20:46,613
[***]

440
00:20:47,814 --> 00:20:50,683
It was absolutely glorious,
the most beautiful fantasies

441
00:20:50,717 --> 00:20:52,885
of creation that
you could imagine!

442
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,155
[***]

443
00:21:01,494 --> 00:21:03,195
No, I just wear whatever I--

444
00:21:03,229 --> 00:21:05,532
someone gives me,
or I pick up, or... [laughs]

445
00:21:05,565 --> 00:21:06,833
Suzette used to buy shirts

446
00:21:06,866 --> 00:21:08,701
in the thrift shop
for fifty cents!

447
00:21:09,135 --> 00:21:10,537
I don't think
they have those now.

448
00:21:12,739 --> 00:21:13,740
Oh I never--no, no.

449
00:21:13,773 --> 00:21:15,241
I hadn't bought clothes in...

450
00:21:15,274 --> 00:21:17,977
when I was in business I never
had money to spend on myself.

451
00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:21,280
I paid my bills but I didn't...
no, I just... whatever's...

452
00:21:21,314 --> 00:21:22,349
people used to give me--

453
00:21:22,382 --> 00:21:24,183
when someone died they'd
give me their clothes,

454
00:21:24,216 --> 00:21:26,052
their friend's clothes
or something like that.

455
00:21:26,819 --> 00:21:29,722
I remember one time in Paris
Nona and Sophie said,

456
00:21:29,756 --> 00:21:32,792
"Now Bill, you're going
to the Duke and Duchess'

457
00:21:32,825 --> 00:21:35,562
for lunch,
so be sure you dress up."

458
00:21:35,762 --> 00:21:38,398
And I said, "Oh, oh,
that's alright. I have... "

459
00:21:38,431 --> 00:21:39,632
So when we got there, I was
telling them but they said,

460
00:21:39,666 --> 00:21:40,933
"Well what are you going
to wear?"

461
00:21:40,967 --> 00:21:44,036
And I said, "Well, I have...

462
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:47,407
Mr. Tucker's shoes, and
Hannah Troy's husband's suit,

463
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,742
and someone else's
shirts I had forgotten--

464
00:21:49,776 --> 00:21:51,378
oh, Mr. Unger's shirts!"

465
00:21:51,411 --> 00:21:54,481
And nothing was said,
but when we got to lunch

466
00:21:54,514 --> 00:21:55,948
they thought that was hilarious,

467
00:21:55,982 --> 00:21:57,249
and they were telling
the Duchess

468
00:21:57,283 --> 00:21:58,551
and they were all laughing.

469
00:22:00,387 --> 00:22:01,788
But they were
marvelous clothes,

470
00:22:01,821 --> 00:22:03,890
they bought the best clothes
that could be had

471
00:22:03,923 --> 00:22:05,992
and their wives didn't know
what to do with them,

472
00:22:06,025 --> 00:22:07,427
so they gave them to me.
They were marvelous.

473
00:22:07,460 --> 00:22:08,661
What do I care?
You know.

474
00:22:08,695 --> 00:22:10,630
I know I should care more
how I look,

475
00:22:10,663 --> 00:22:12,832
but it's more important I go out
and get the right picture.

476
00:22:12,865 --> 00:22:13,833
That's the main thing.

477
00:22:16,769 --> 00:22:17,704
- BILL: Yeah!

478
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,341
BILL: Yeah. No, they host...

479
00:22:22,375 --> 00:22:26,178
because when Nona and Sophie--
Mrs. Park from Chez Ninon

480
00:22:26,212 --> 00:22:28,481
knew the Duchess
as a young girl, very well.

481
00:22:28,515 --> 00:22:30,216
But Mrs. Park wouldn't go.

482
00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:33,319
Because she--no, she wouldn't
curtsy to the Duchess.

483
00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:36,088
Because she knew her
as a young girl and...

484
00:22:39,392 --> 00:22:41,761
BILL: Well, the Duchess
wasn't one of my favorites

485
00:22:41,794 --> 00:22:43,996
because she wasn't
that fashionable,

486
00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:48,000
she was very studied.
Very studied.

487
00:22:48,034 --> 00:22:49,636
- BILL: Oh, charming.

488
00:22:49,869 --> 00:22:53,205
Absolutely delightful,
delightful, wonderful man.

489
00:22:53,239 --> 00:22:57,076
Put you right at ease,
no highfalutin nonsense.

490
00:22:57,109 --> 00:22:58,344
No putting on.

491
00:22:58,377 --> 00:23:01,147
He was charming,
absolutely charming.

492
00:23:01,548 --> 00:23:03,315
Take you back
in the garden and say,

493
00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:06,385
"C'mon Bill, I want to show you
some new plants"

494
00:23:06,419 --> 00:23:09,088
and I remember the one time
that I rode out with...

495
00:23:09,121 --> 00:23:12,291
I think it was Mrs. Spreckels
from San Francisco

496
00:23:12,324 --> 00:23:13,893
and the Duke saying,

497
00:23:13,926 --> 00:23:16,729
"Oh, you chintzy,
you only brought me two bulbs!"

498
00:23:16,763 --> 00:23:19,499
And she said, "Well they're this
and this and they'll multiply--"

499
00:23:19,532 --> 00:23:21,501
Oh, he was charming!

500
00:23:21,834 --> 00:23:24,571
But he demanded
great respect for his wife.

501
00:23:25,472 --> 00:23:26,606
Great respect.

502
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,510
And... but he was
charming, charming.

503
00:23:30,743 --> 00:23:32,211
Real, down to earth.

504
00:23:32,244 --> 00:23:34,313
He used to tell me about when
he first came to America,

505
00:23:34,346 --> 00:23:37,183
when he met Buffalo Bill,
and the West,

506
00:23:37,216 --> 00:23:39,185
and--oh, he loved it.

507
00:23:39,452 --> 00:23:42,021
[***]

508
00:23:42,889 --> 00:23:45,291
NARRATOR:  Sophie Shonnard
and Nona Park.

509
00:23:45,725 --> 00:23:47,226
It's history's guess as to what

510
00:23:47,259 --> 00:23:48,928
would have happened
to Cunningham

511
00:23:48,961 --> 00:23:51,163
had he not met
these two discrete

512
00:23:51,197 --> 00:23:53,533
but very stylish
and cunning women

513
00:23:53,566 --> 00:23:57,236
who since 1929 ran
a private dressmaking shop

514
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:58,638
called Chez Ninon.

515
00:23:58,871 --> 00:24:00,673
[***]

516
00:24:00,707 --> 00:24:03,476
Without question,
they had the most influence

517
00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:05,778
on Cunningham's
vast sense of style.

518
00:24:06,879 --> 00:24:10,750
Chez Ninon dressed anyone
who was anyone in America

519
00:24:10,783 --> 00:24:13,486
and the cream of the crop
of New York society.

520
00:24:14,386 --> 00:24:15,522
[***]

521
00:24:15,555 --> 00:24:18,257
Cunningham once described them
as women who came

522
00:24:18,290 --> 00:24:19,826
from well-to-do families,

523
00:24:19,859 --> 00:24:22,028
who both had
disastrous marriages,

524
00:24:22,695 --> 00:24:25,565
and that their families
set them up in business together

525
00:24:25,598 --> 00:24:27,934
in hopes that they would
not commit suicide.

526
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:30,402
They lived together
on Park Avenue.

527
00:24:32,171 --> 00:24:34,507
Soon after
that they left Bonwit's

528
00:24:34,541 --> 00:24:36,776
and went out on their own.

529
00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:39,779
You know, had their own salons.

530
00:24:40,046 --> 00:24:41,681
And I was always over there.

531
00:24:41,714 --> 00:24:44,416
That's how I got involved

532
00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:46,653
in working on collaborating
on the clothes

533
00:24:46,686 --> 00:24:49,756
for Mrs. Kennedy
when she was in the White House.

534
00:24:49,789 --> 00:24:51,891
Because she used to come
there from when she was--

535
00:24:51,924 --> 00:24:53,926
God I think from even
before she was married.

536
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,928
And always buy things on sale.

537
00:24:59,766 --> 00:25:01,067
BILL: Yeah,
I think it was great.

538
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:05,104
I mean it was... you know,
by that time hats were over,

539
00:25:05,137 --> 00:25:07,473
and she wanted the least
possible thing to wear,

540
00:25:07,506 --> 00:25:09,542
and it just you know, something
in the back and you know,

541
00:25:09,576 --> 00:25:11,143
it was fine,
it suited her I mean.

542
00:25:11,177 --> 00:25:15,682
She was obliged by etiquette
to wear, and so she did.

543
00:25:16,515 --> 00:25:20,019
NARRATOR:  For over 50 years
it has been common knowledge

544
00:25:20,052 --> 00:25:23,222
that perhaps one of the most
famous dresses in history

545
00:25:23,255 --> 00:25:25,391
was a line-by-line copy
of a dress

546
00:25:25,424 --> 00:25:27,860
designed by French
designer Coco Chanel

547
00:25:27,894 --> 00:25:30,329
and later confirmed
by its longtime designer

548
00:25:30,362 --> 00:25:31,731
Karl Lagerfeld,

549
00:25:31,998 --> 00:25:35,201
but Cunningham
clearly claims otherwise.

550
00:25:35,234 --> 00:25:36,335
Let's face it.

551
00:25:36,368 --> 00:25:37,970
That idea and that design

552
00:25:38,004 --> 00:25:40,339
all came
from Balenciaga in Paris.

553
00:25:41,107 --> 00:25:44,210
No matter, you know, whether
she bought them from Bergdorf's

554
00:25:44,243 --> 00:25:46,212
or whoever claims
to take credit for it.

555
00:25:46,846 --> 00:25:48,447
NARRATOR:  So involved
was Cunningham

556
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,582
in the collaboration

557
00:25:49,616 --> 00:25:51,584
with Chez Ninon
and Jacqueline Kennedy

558
00:25:51,618 --> 00:25:53,986
that he was personally
asked to dye

559
00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:56,422
a red Balenciaga dress black

560
00:25:56,455 --> 00:26:01,594
to wear to President Kennedy's
funeral in November of 1963.

561
00:26:03,996 --> 00:26:07,466
["Porcelain" by Moby plays]

562
00:26:34,260 --> 00:26:37,529
[song continues]

563
00:26:44,704 --> 00:26:47,974
A lot of the Hollywood people
would come in for their own,

564
00:26:48,007 --> 00:26:49,541
you know, clothes, hats

565
00:26:49,575 --> 00:26:51,644
for their own lives
and things like that.

566
00:26:51,678 --> 00:26:54,781
And... lovely people
but they didn't mean

567
00:26:54,814 --> 00:26:57,016
anything to me because
they didn't have style.

568
00:26:57,583 --> 00:26:58,718
You see?

569
00:26:58,751 --> 00:27:00,219
And they were wonderful.

570
00:27:00,252 --> 00:27:01,754
Joan Crawford would come.

571
00:27:03,790 --> 00:27:07,326
BILL: Well, in her own life,
I... not like the films.

572
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,361
The illusion
that we knew from the films

573
00:27:09,395 --> 00:27:10,997
didn't exist in their own lives.

574
00:27:11,397 --> 00:27:13,032
The only one that came close

575
00:27:13,065 --> 00:27:15,367
which came in
was Gloria Swanson.

576
00:27:17,804 --> 00:27:23,910
The others: Ginger Rogers,
Leslie Caron, Josephine Baker.

577
00:27:23,943 --> 00:27:26,679
all of these people...

578
00:27:27,313 --> 00:27:29,015
I can't remember
all their names,

579
00:27:29,048 --> 00:27:31,918
they were wonderful,
charming people.

580
00:27:31,951 --> 00:27:35,688
But, it wasn't style
I had known at Chez Ninon.

581
00:27:35,722 --> 00:27:38,157
There we had Mrs. Paley...

582
00:27:39,258 --> 00:27:41,160
Brooke Astor, I mean,

583
00:27:41,193 --> 00:27:44,463
all these marvelous people
wearing beautiful clothes.

584
00:27:44,496 --> 00:27:45,698
And beautiful taste.

585
00:27:49,435 --> 00:27:52,638
Oh... well, yeah, because
that's not their interest,

586
00:27:52,671 --> 00:27:54,874
you see that all ended
after World War II.

587
00:27:55,541 --> 00:27:58,377
And that's
when I realized my focus

588
00:27:58,945 --> 00:28:02,181
was not ever on theatre
or Hollywood people.

589
00:28:02,481 --> 00:28:04,183
Because I wasn't
interested in that--

590
00:28:04,216 --> 00:28:06,685
crossing the line
from fashion to theatre.

591
00:28:06,719 --> 00:28:08,520
I'm strictly interested

592
00:28:08,554 --> 00:28:11,724
in the way women dress
in their own lives.

593
00:28:11,758 --> 00:28:13,325
And that's what interested me.

594
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,628
And secondly,
I saw how Hollywood dressed,

595
00:28:16,662 --> 00:28:18,630
and so I wasn't
interested in that.

596
00:28:19,398 --> 00:28:23,335
And I had worked
at Chez Ninon all those years

597
00:28:23,369 --> 00:28:26,839
and I saw how beautifully
women dressed there,

598
00:28:26,873 --> 00:28:29,641
and occasionally a movie person
would come into the shop,

599
00:28:30,142 --> 00:28:31,443
into Chez Ninon.

600
00:28:31,477 --> 00:28:32,745
Like I remember...

601
00:28:32,779 --> 00:28:35,681
I think Elizabeth Taylor
came once, and...

602
00:28:35,714 --> 00:28:38,084
who was the other--and we didn't
know what to do with her!

603
00:28:38,818 --> 00:28:39,852
[laughing]

604
00:28:39,886 --> 00:28:41,287
It wasn't our--
it wasn't the taste

605
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,555
of the shop so they
kind of discouraged her,

606
00:28:43,589 --> 00:28:46,492
you know, I mean it wasn't
for snobbish reasons,

607
00:28:46,525 --> 00:28:48,660
it was a matter of taste...

608
00:28:48,694 --> 00:28:51,063
and their taste
was just different.

609
00:28:51,397 --> 00:28:53,833
[***]

610
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,574
BILL: I was aware of him

611
00:29:02,608 --> 00:29:04,977
because suddenly
Women's Wear came to life

612
00:29:05,011 --> 00:29:06,712
in the late '50s

613
00:29:06,745 --> 00:29:09,748
and what it was John
was working the Paris bureau,

614
00:29:09,782 --> 00:29:10,817
and I didn't know who he was,

615
00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:12,618
but I would read
the reports back in New York

616
00:29:12,651 --> 00:29:14,153
and they were electrifying.

617
00:29:14,186 --> 00:29:15,387
It was marvelous.

618
00:29:16,155 --> 00:29:20,192
And what happened was John knew

619
00:29:20,226 --> 00:29:22,528
Mrs. Park and Mrs. Shonnard
from Chez Ninon.

620
00:29:22,561 --> 00:29:24,530
So he knew them very well,

621
00:29:24,563 --> 00:29:28,634
then somehow they
must have mentioned me to him,

622
00:29:29,969 --> 00:29:31,503
because they, like my family,

623
00:29:31,537 --> 00:29:34,140
had tried to get me out
of fashion and interested,

624
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:36,843
first off, in the advertising,
which didn't work out,

625
00:29:36,876 --> 00:29:39,378
and then when John Fairchild
came along,

626
00:29:39,711 --> 00:29:42,815
they said, "Oh! This is perfect.

627
00:29:42,849 --> 00:29:47,319
We'll get Bill
involved in newspaper work.

628
00:29:48,287 --> 00:29:50,056
Get him out of fashion."

629
00:29:50,089 --> 00:29:51,557
I remember there was a luncheon,

630
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:53,159
and they never went to lunch...

631
00:29:53,192 --> 00:29:54,626
they must be kidding!

632
00:29:54,894 --> 00:29:57,296
I can't hardly spell
my last name,

633
00:29:57,329 --> 00:29:58,831
because I'm a person in images.

634
00:29:59,265 --> 00:30:01,901
Then I thought, "Well I'll write
one and that will end it."

635
00:30:01,934 --> 00:30:03,735
He'll read that
and that will be the end of it.

636
00:30:03,769 --> 00:30:05,437
Well, it was just the opposite.

637
00:30:05,471 --> 00:30:07,073
[***]

638
00:30:07,106 --> 00:30:08,240
NARRATOR:
"What should have been

639
00:30:08,274 --> 00:30:10,076
the most glamorous ball
in New York

640
00:30:10,109 --> 00:30:12,378
turned out to be
a starved turkey.

641
00:30:12,778 --> 00:30:15,514
What are the leading fashion
personalities thinking about

642
00:30:15,547 --> 00:30:16,748
then they show themselves

643
00:30:16,782 --> 00:30:18,450
in the most
understated attitudes,

644
00:30:18,484 --> 00:30:21,453
and then fill their magazine
papers with outrageous flights

645
00:30:21,487 --> 00:30:25,057
of fancy for the public
to accept as fashionable?"

646
00:30:25,691 --> 00:30:27,259
BILL: John read it,
saw that column and he thought,

647
00:30:27,293 --> 00:30:28,794
"Oh no,
that's just what we want."

648
00:30:28,827 --> 00:30:30,863
Everyone was happy,
Nona and Sophie were happy

649
00:30:30,897 --> 00:30:32,831
they finally got me out
of the fashion field.

650
00:30:32,865 --> 00:30:34,600
NARRATOR:
"Mrs. Vreeland was there,

651
00:30:34,633 --> 00:30:37,870
groaning with delight
and looking outrageously chic

652
00:30:37,904 --> 00:30:40,806
in kelly green coat and dress
--cocoa gloves--

653
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:43,242
downstairs on the the back
window ledge of her car

654
00:30:43,275 --> 00:30:46,012
I saw lots of photos
of fashion pictures--

655
00:30:46,045 --> 00:30:47,713
for the big issue?"

656
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,082
BILL:
It was--yes it was Women's Wear,

657
00:30:50,116 --> 00:30:52,718
but that's alright,
it was a writer, a reporter.

658
00:30:53,019 --> 00:30:54,921
You know, it was more dignified
I guess they thought,

659
00:30:54,954 --> 00:30:58,424
"Anything to get him away
from dresses and hats."

660
00:30:59,858 --> 00:31:00,993
Oh, yes.

661
00:31:03,129 --> 00:31:04,496
Oh, yes.

662
00:31:04,931 --> 00:31:08,434
They tried... from early,
when I first, at Bonwit's...

663
00:31:08,467 --> 00:31:09,668
that would have been--

664
00:31:11,270 --> 00:31:14,306
Well, I guess they didn't think
it was a profession for a man.

665
00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:16,275
- You see, at the time.

666
00:31:16,308 --> 00:31:19,912
Let's see,
John must have started in...

667
00:31:20,779 --> 00:31:22,982
'62, '63, something like that.

668
00:31:23,015 --> 00:31:25,151
It only lasted a year,

669
00:31:25,617 --> 00:31:27,987
and then I realized
that wasn't the place for me.

670
00:31:28,587 --> 00:31:30,822
They had another way
of approaching things

671
00:31:30,856 --> 00:31:32,925
that I couldn't live
with myself.

672
00:31:32,959 --> 00:31:34,760
They were real news people.

673
00:31:34,793 --> 00:31:38,297
You know, they were after
a story no matter what the...,

674
00:31:38,330 --> 00:31:41,567
inconveniences and... I just,

675
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,469
I couldn't live
with myself that way.

676
00:31:43,502 --> 00:31:44,937
It's just a different way
of doing it,

677
00:31:44,971 --> 00:31:47,073
I think theirs
is terrifically exciting

678
00:31:47,106 --> 00:31:49,075
and I think mine
would be very boring,

679
00:31:49,408 --> 00:31:50,809
to be perfectly frank.

680
00:31:50,842 --> 00:31:53,579
But it wasn't for me,
so I just went on my way.

681
00:31:56,515 --> 00:31:59,651
BILL: 1967.
It was a little camera.

682
00:32:01,220 --> 00:32:04,356
A friend of Antonio's,
the illustrator Antonio...

683
00:32:04,556 --> 00:32:06,959
one time in London I asked him

684
00:32:06,993 --> 00:32:09,695
if he'd take
a photograph for me...

685
00:32:10,429 --> 00:32:11,730
it was something we were doing,

686
00:32:11,763 --> 00:32:14,133
and he sent an assistant
and they took a photograph.

687
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,037
And then, at dinner that night
he gave me a little camera

688
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:19,871
and he said,
"Here, it's an idiot box,

689
00:32:19,905 --> 00:32:21,373
use it like your notebook."

690
00:32:21,873 --> 00:32:24,710
And it was a little
Olympus Half-Frame camera.

691
00:32:24,910 --> 00:32:27,379
I tell you guys, that meant
you had 72 pictures to a roll.

692
00:32:27,413 --> 00:32:28,380
[laughs]

693
00:32:28,414 --> 00:32:30,182
So you could go on endlessly!

694
00:32:30,216 --> 00:32:32,684
And you almost
couldn't get out of focus.

695
00:32:33,585 --> 00:32:35,321
And it was a revelation.

696
00:32:35,821 --> 00:32:37,289
You can't imagine.

697
00:32:37,323 --> 00:32:39,725
[***]

698
00:32:52,338 --> 00:32:53,739
BILL:
Suddenly I could photograph

699
00:32:53,772 --> 00:32:55,807
everything I'd ever
want to photograph,

700
00:32:56,108 --> 00:32:57,476
inside and out.

701
00:32:57,909 --> 00:33:00,512
[***]

702
00:33:20,566 --> 00:33:24,503
BILL: And here I've used
the camera early on,

703
00:33:24,536 --> 00:33:25,837
in the '40s,

704
00:33:25,871 --> 00:33:28,874
because I was interested but,
dropped it for other interests,

705
00:33:28,907 --> 00:33:30,576
and never thought
of the connection.

706
00:33:30,942 --> 00:33:32,911
But suddenly all the doors open

707
00:33:32,944 --> 00:33:35,047
and everything I'd known
I could record.

708
00:33:35,447 --> 00:33:37,216
[***]

709
00:33:40,752 --> 00:33:42,454
BILL: First off
the street interested me,

710
00:33:42,488 --> 00:33:44,523
because I've always
been fascinated

711
00:33:44,556 --> 00:33:46,125
by wonderfully dressed people.

712
00:33:46,358 --> 00:33:47,959
I was trained that way.

713
00:33:49,428 --> 00:33:50,762
The president of Bonwit's,

714
00:33:50,796 --> 00:33:53,365
back in 1947 when I first
went to work there,

715
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,069
always had me go outside
the store on my lunch hour

716
00:33:57,936 --> 00:34:00,072
and just observe people.

717
00:34:00,106 --> 00:34:03,542
And she told me at the time,
"Now you re-dress them

718
00:34:03,575 --> 00:34:05,211
the way you think
they should be dressed,

719
00:34:05,244 --> 00:34:06,478
if you think it's wrong."

720
00:34:06,512 --> 00:34:09,215
[***]

721
00:34:15,621 --> 00:34:17,656
And so all my life
I've been doing this.

722
00:34:19,525 --> 00:34:22,328
But now I have the camera,
and I can photograph it!

723
00:34:22,594 --> 00:34:24,730
So it was, really, it was great,
it was wonderful,

724
00:34:24,763 --> 00:34:26,932
and... it went on
from there really.

725
00:34:32,638 --> 00:34:34,173
BILL: Yes--fashion shows

726
00:34:34,673 --> 00:34:38,244
and... everywhere,
wherever I went, I never,

727
00:34:38,277 --> 00:34:40,379
I still to this day
I carry the camera

728
00:34:40,412 --> 00:34:42,214
wherever I go,
I'm never without it.

729
00:34:43,515 --> 00:34:45,651
[***]

730
00:34:46,118 --> 00:34:49,188
["Les Feuilles Mortes"
by Yves Montand plays]

731
00:35:06,738 --> 00:35:08,974
BILL:
From the post-World War period,

732
00:35:09,007 --> 00:35:11,042
that's from '47 on,

733
00:35:11,343 --> 00:35:13,679
I felt that the fashion world,

734
00:35:14,780 --> 00:35:18,317
to me, was what Hollywood
was to another generation.

735
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:20,852
If people were so excited
about Hollywood

736
00:35:21,453 --> 00:35:24,190
from World War I
to World War II,

737
00:35:24,223 --> 00:35:27,526
and all the great stars
and the films and the imagery

738
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:29,528
and the dream factory.

739
00:35:30,095 --> 00:35:33,232
See, I felt the dream factory
was in fashion.

740
00:35:38,970 --> 00:35:41,707
- Oh yes. Discovery.

741
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:44,009
You see, the other reason
I took to the streets:

742
00:35:44,042 --> 00:35:47,313
I wasn't getting the answers
from the fashion shows

743
00:35:47,546 --> 00:35:51,082
of how women would dress
for our era to mirror

744
00:35:51,116 --> 00:35:53,785
the times and the era,
the epoch that we live in.

745
00:35:54,052 --> 00:35:56,655
So that's...
in about the '70s

746
00:35:56,688 --> 00:35:59,325
I took to the streets
more and more and more,

747
00:35:59,691 --> 00:36:02,961
because I realized I had to look
for answers somewhere else

748
00:36:02,994 --> 00:36:04,630
and I was going to find
them on the street.

749
00:36:04,663 --> 00:36:06,665
- And I think I did.

750
00:36:06,698 --> 00:36:08,434
You know, a lot of people might
not agree with that, but...

751
00:36:11,102 --> 00:36:13,805
That's what it was, you see
when we're looking for answers,

752
00:36:13,839 --> 00:36:15,407
like a journal,
looking for something new

753
00:36:15,441 --> 00:36:17,276
but answers that solve problems.

754
00:36:17,309 --> 00:36:19,978
[***]

755
00:36:49,508 --> 00:36:51,543
BILL: No. Every era...

756
00:36:51,577 --> 00:36:53,745
and this isn't just talk,

757
00:36:53,779 --> 00:36:58,917
today is just as exciting
as it was in... in the 1940's.

758
00:36:59,184 --> 00:37:01,420
Everyone always thinks,
"Oh, it was better then."

759
00:37:01,653 --> 00:37:02,321
Never.

760
00:37:04,189 --> 00:37:08,394
Because fashion
is not a frivolous...

761
00:37:08,827 --> 00:37:11,530
it is... it has a vanity
and has all of that,

762
00:37:11,563 --> 00:37:15,100
but it's more than that,
it makes people feel good.

763
00:37:15,133 --> 00:37:16,868
They get dressed
to go out in the morning,

764
00:37:16,902 --> 00:37:18,270
I don't care who you are...

765
00:37:18,304 --> 00:37:21,172
and it just,
it lifts the spirits,

766
00:37:21,206 --> 00:37:23,742
it's self esteem,
it's every--all of those things,

767
00:37:23,775 --> 00:37:25,176
you can't just
wash them them away,

768
00:37:25,210 --> 00:37:26,478
there will always be fashion.

769
00:37:26,512 --> 00:37:28,847
As long as there are human
beings there will be fashion.

770
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,916
Because people want
to feel good about themselves.

771
00:37:30,949 --> 00:37:33,752
And... when everyone's
crying now,

772
00:37:33,785 --> 00:37:35,587
with the, "How could you stay
on the streets photographing,

773
00:37:35,621 --> 00:37:37,889
it's terrible. Look at--people
look terrible, terrible.

774
00:37:37,923 --> 00:37:38,990
It's a mess."

775
00:37:40,125 --> 00:37:42,394
The streets
are reflecting precisely

776
00:37:42,428 --> 00:37:44,863
what's going on
in the political world,

777
00:37:46,432 --> 00:37:48,900
in the social upheaval
of our times...

778
00:37:49,635 --> 00:37:51,837
it's all right there.

779
00:37:53,472 --> 00:37:57,676
So, to me, fashion
is doing its job today

780
00:37:57,709 --> 00:38:00,111
absolutely on precision.

781
00:38:02,047 --> 00:38:03,815
You see, there are three things:

782
00:38:04,149 --> 00:38:06,452
what are shown--what is shown,

783
00:38:07,052 --> 00:38:09,621
what is written about it,
and what is worn.

784
00:38:10,456 --> 00:38:13,191
I had been involved
in what was written about it,

785
00:38:13,925 --> 00:38:16,728
and I knew
all the loopholes there,

786
00:38:17,128 --> 00:38:18,364
and how much you could believe

787
00:38:18,397 --> 00:38:19,698
and how much
you couldn't believe

788
00:38:19,731 --> 00:38:22,300
and all the phoney-baloney
and all that stuff.

789
00:38:22,334 --> 00:38:24,336
And the next thing was...

790
00:38:25,371 --> 00:38:26,805
what was worn.

791
00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:30,842
And you see that's
what was so interesting

792
00:38:30,876 --> 00:38:33,945
about Mrs. Vreeland,
at the Metropolitan Museum.

793
00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:37,483
[***]

794
00:38:41,987 --> 00:38:44,456
As a matter of fact
that's an interesting story.

795
00:38:44,490 --> 00:38:46,057
The women from Chez Ninon,

796
00:38:46,091 --> 00:38:48,026
who I lived with
for a little while

797
00:38:48,059 --> 00:38:50,161
because when my aunt and uncle
got so discouraged

798
00:38:50,195 --> 00:38:52,464
that I was in fashion,
I kinda had to move out.

799
00:38:53,565 --> 00:38:55,133
So I lived with them.

800
00:38:56,602 --> 00:38:58,136
They had a maid's room
that I used,

801
00:38:58,169 --> 00:38:59,505
that's all there was to it.

802
00:38:59,771 --> 00:39:01,973
But on Sundays, I remember,

803
00:39:02,908 --> 00:39:04,476
there would be lunch

804
00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:06,512
and Carmel Snow
would come for lunch

805
00:39:06,545 --> 00:39:09,481
and some other women,
Brooks Carstairs,

806
00:39:09,515 --> 00:39:12,718
and as soon as lunch was over,
I had to get on my way,

807
00:39:12,751 --> 00:39:14,553
because they would
go into the card room

808
00:39:14,586 --> 00:39:15,754
and they would play cards,

809
00:39:15,787 --> 00:39:17,456
and it was
very serious business.

810
00:39:18,123 --> 00:39:19,658
And I didn't think much of it.

811
00:39:20,191 --> 00:39:24,896
One time,
Diana Vreeland was coming,

812
00:39:25,163 --> 00:39:26,632
and they said,
"Oh Bill, you don't want

813
00:39:26,665 --> 00:39:28,299
to come to lunch,
you want to go off early."

814
00:39:29,234 --> 00:39:31,302
I said, "Oh no,
I'm dying to meet her."

815
00:39:32,438 --> 00:39:35,173
This was sometime
in the '50s,

816
00:39:35,206 --> 00:39:36,442
I can't remember when,

817
00:39:36,942 --> 00:39:39,044
and... early '50s,

818
00:39:39,478 --> 00:39:42,180
and--at any rate,
I was sent on my way,

819
00:39:42,213 --> 00:39:44,783
whatever I did, went off,
and I didn't meet her.

820
00:39:45,751 --> 00:39:47,986
And later I found out
that Nona and Sophie

821
00:39:48,019 --> 00:39:51,056
had tried desperately
all their lives

822
00:39:51,089 --> 00:39:52,658
to keep me from meeting her.

823
00:39:53,158 --> 00:39:55,994
Because they thought,
"If he meets her,

824
00:39:56,027 --> 00:39:57,596
and her eccentric behavior,

825
00:39:57,629 --> 00:40:00,432
he's going to be mesmerized
and we'll lose him forever.

826
00:40:00,466 --> 00:40:02,033
That'll be the end of it!"

827
00:40:02,067 --> 00:40:03,902
So I was never allowed
to meet her.

828
00:40:03,935 --> 00:40:06,605
[***]

829
00:40:11,977 --> 00:40:13,479
At the Met Museum,

830
00:40:13,845 --> 00:40:16,582
at the first exhibition
I met her,

831
00:40:16,615 --> 00:40:19,885
I wasn't volunteer
but Stella Blum, the curator,

832
00:40:19,918 --> 00:40:22,754
said, "Oh, come up Bill
and document whatever you want."

833
00:40:22,788 --> 00:40:25,256
So I would go up, I went up,

834
00:40:25,691 --> 00:40:28,460
and I would, I went... as long
as Mrs. Vreeland was there,

835
00:40:28,494 --> 00:40:29,595
from the first show--

836
00:40:29,628 --> 00:40:31,396
for two weeks while she was
mounting the show,

837
00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:33,599
I would photograph everything
that her hand touched.

838
00:40:35,033 --> 00:40:37,703
Yes, never printed them but
they're, it's just so document--

839
00:40:37,736 --> 00:40:39,070
I love to document.

840
00:40:40,438 --> 00:40:41,740
BILL: No, no.

841
00:40:41,773 --> 00:40:44,109
[***]

842
00:40:47,412 --> 00:40:49,214
NARRATOR:  And document he did.

843
00:40:49,481 --> 00:40:52,551
In fact, in addition
to these photos here,

844
00:40:52,584 --> 00:40:56,287
Cunningham's vast documentation
included tape recordings

845
00:40:56,321 --> 00:40:58,323
and taking copious notes

846
00:40:58,356 --> 00:41:00,659
for the entire eleven years

847
00:41:00,692 --> 00:41:04,395
of Diana Vreeland's mounting
of her Met exhibitions.

848
00:41:04,796 --> 00:41:06,798
DIANA:
The eyes of Marilyn Monroe

849
00:41:06,832 --> 00:41:07,966
to the Betty Annes.

850
00:41:07,999 --> 00:41:09,901
CROWD: New. New. New. Blue.

851
00:41:19,878 --> 00:41:21,847
And I got to know her...

852
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,816
fascinated by this woman,
she was fabulous.

853
00:41:25,450 --> 00:41:28,854
But no one understood,
she would come in...

854
00:41:28,887 --> 00:41:31,757
noontime, go to her office
and do all the paperwork,

855
00:41:31,790 --> 00:41:33,258
and she would come out
into the gallery

856
00:41:33,291 --> 00:41:34,660
at, say, four in the afternoon.

857
00:41:34,693 --> 00:41:36,194
And she would go
through the galleries

858
00:41:36,227 --> 00:41:37,495
and I can always remember:

859
00:41:37,529 --> 00:41:40,599
"Hmm, a little quelque-chose
here, or there,"

860
00:41:40,632 --> 00:41:42,801
with a--roll her eyes
and this and that.

861
00:41:42,834 --> 00:41:44,870
And, "Oh I see the gremlins,"

862
00:41:44,903 --> 00:41:46,905
or what, she had another
expression, whatever it was,

863
00:41:46,938 --> 00:41:48,173
"have been at work."

864
00:41:48,206 --> 00:41:50,441
Well what it was,
the volunteers and the staff

865
00:41:50,475 --> 00:41:54,112
were researching the old
Vogue Magazines, and Harper's,

866
00:41:54,145 --> 00:41:55,547
and they would see,

867
00:41:55,581 --> 00:41:57,883
well Balenciaga showed it
this way with this hat,

868
00:41:57,916 --> 00:41:59,350
and with this, and with that.

869
00:41:59,651 --> 00:42:01,286
And Mrs. Vreeland
would come through,

870
00:42:01,319 --> 00:42:02,688
"Hmm--"

871
00:42:25,210 --> 00:42:27,613
And, "get rid of this,"
and she would pull off the hats

872
00:42:27,646 --> 00:42:29,247
and she would pull off
all the jewelry

873
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,949
and all the stuff
the magazines had on,

874
00:42:30,982 --> 00:42:35,120
and she'd tie a Hermès scarf
around the head.

875
00:42:35,553 --> 00:42:37,856
And everyone
in the museum was horrified.

876
00:42:38,156 --> 00:42:40,792
What Mrs. Vreeland was doing
was showing you

877
00:42:40,826 --> 00:42:44,129
how women
really wore these clothes.

878
00:42:44,596 --> 00:42:46,364
And what they wore with them.

879
00:42:46,397 --> 00:42:48,066
They didn't ever buy the things

880
00:42:48,099 --> 00:42:50,301
as they were shown
or wear it that way,

881
00:42:50,335 --> 00:42:51,436
no one of taste.

882
00:42:51,469 --> 00:42:55,040
The only show I didn't cover
was the Russian exhibit,

883
00:42:55,707 --> 00:42:58,309
and the museum
asked me not to come

884
00:42:58,343 --> 00:43:00,378
because they were
having such problems

885
00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:02,213
with Mrs. Vreeland
and the Russians,

886
00:43:02,247 --> 00:43:06,017
because Mrs. Vreeland
had her idea of Imperial Russia

887
00:43:06,051 --> 00:43:07,418
[laughter]

888
00:43:07,452 --> 00:43:10,088
and... the communist
Russians who were there

889
00:43:10,121 --> 00:43:12,490
with all the clothes
had their idea of--

890
00:43:12,523 --> 00:43:15,894
and... as they said the blood
is flowing on the aisles.

891
00:43:15,927 --> 00:43:18,263
[***]

892
00:43:21,833 --> 00:43:24,335
BILL: Yes, oh yes...
Wegee photographed my hats.

893
00:43:25,136 --> 00:43:26,638
For Look magazine.

894
00:43:26,672 --> 00:43:28,106
- Yeah, yes.
- MARK: He did, really?

895
00:43:28,139 --> 00:43:29,875
BILL:
It was in his later years, yes.

896
00:43:29,908 --> 00:43:32,377
I remember him coming,
he was an old man then,

897
00:43:32,410 --> 00:43:35,013
great big overcoat and all,
but wonderfully creative,

898
00:43:35,046 --> 00:43:36,948
he photographed
spring flower hats

899
00:43:36,982 --> 00:43:39,718
but through a frosted shower.

900
00:43:40,051 --> 00:43:41,619
- MARK: Is that right.
- BILL: Bathroom shower.

901
00:43:46,792 --> 00:43:49,394
BILL: Oh well he was--that was
a real photographer, come on.

902
00:43:49,427 --> 00:43:50,996
No, I'm lightweight stuff.

903
00:43:51,029 --> 00:43:53,899
[***]

904
00:44:01,439 --> 00:44:03,008
BILL: People in the real
photography world say,

905
00:44:03,041 --> 00:44:05,811
"Listen, you're an embarrassment
to photography."

906
00:44:05,844 --> 00:44:07,478
But I never said
I was a photographer.

907
00:44:07,512 --> 00:44:10,581
I think of myself
as a fashion historian.

908
00:44:11,216 --> 00:44:12,650
That's what I'm interested in,

909
00:44:12,684 --> 00:44:16,688
and the camera is another
instrument to record it.

910
00:44:21,459 --> 00:44:23,461
BILL: Uh, yeah.

911
00:44:23,494 --> 00:44:25,496
Couple of women
came along the street

912
00:44:25,530 --> 00:44:27,398
from a photographic gallery

913
00:44:27,432 --> 00:44:28,900
on 57th Street, yeah.

914
00:44:28,934 --> 00:44:30,668
- And they said that to you?
- BILL: Yeah.

915
00:44:30,702 --> 00:44:32,503
People say a lot
of things on the street.

916
00:44:32,537 --> 00:44:33,772
[laughter]

917
00:44:33,805 --> 00:44:36,041
You can't imagine, I mean.

918
00:44:37,575 --> 00:44:41,146
I had a woman call the cops
and when was it, last year,

919
00:44:41,479 --> 00:44:43,314
and wanted them to arrest me.

920
00:44:43,348 --> 00:44:46,417
She said I was a pickpocket
using the camera as a front.

921
00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:49,454
BILL: And she was the head
of a perfume company...

922
00:44:49,487 --> 00:44:51,222
I was out photographing,

923
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:53,491
I was just in front
of the Gallery Lafayette

924
00:44:53,524 --> 00:44:54,625
when they opened

925
00:44:54,659 --> 00:44:57,195
and... this woman
came along and she said,

926
00:44:57,462 --> 00:44:58,897
"You're a pickpocket!"

927
00:44:58,930 --> 00:45:00,165
I've had a lot of people
yell things

928
00:45:00,198 --> 00:45:01,132
so I didn't pay attention,

929
00:45:02,233 --> 00:45:03,301
I figured they were another,
you know, another crazy.

930
00:45:03,334 --> 00:45:05,871
And about five minutes later

931
00:45:05,904 --> 00:45:07,773
she came back with the police
to arrest me.

932
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:09,775
- BILL: Yeah!

933
00:45:10,275 --> 00:45:12,410
But that's not the first time,
I've had that happen to me.

934
00:45:14,212 --> 00:45:16,047
And she thought
the camera was a front.

935
00:45:16,381 --> 00:45:18,349
And all I can remember
saying to her,

936
00:45:18,549 --> 00:45:20,852
"God... if you think that,"

937
00:45:20,886 --> 00:45:23,354
I said, "and you're educated,
then I'm really worried."

938
00:45:23,388 --> 00:45:24,956
[laughter]

939
00:45:25,390 --> 00:45:26,557
It was strange.

940
00:45:28,059 --> 00:45:30,829
Yeah... and I wouldn't have
known but she gave me her card,

941
00:45:30,862 --> 00:45:33,431
I don't know what she gave me
her card for. [laugher]

942
00:45:35,233 --> 00:45:39,670
I have no idea. I still have it,
but that was a curiosity.

943
00:45:39,704 --> 00:45:41,372
- Yeah.

944
00:45:41,406 --> 00:45:42,874
And they said,
"Well, you can't, madam,

945
00:45:42,908 --> 00:45:44,442
you know he has
a right to take pictures,

946
00:45:44,475 --> 00:45:46,511
it's if he uses them
in the wrong way...

947
00:45:46,544 --> 00:45:47,645
then you can do something."

948
00:45:47,678 --> 00:45:49,514
She said,
"Well, it isn't the pictures,

949
00:45:49,547 --> 00:45:51,783
he's using the camera as a front
and he's a pickpocket.

950
00:45:51,817 --> 00:45:55,253
My handbag was stolen
on this corner last week."

951
00:45:55,553 --> 00:45:57,055
And I said,
"Well I see handbags being--

952
00:45:57,088 --> 00:45:59,324
I see the pickpockets
all day long up and down here."

953
00:46:01,126 --> 00:46:02,994
[indistinct conversations]

954
00:46:03,795 --> 00:46:06,731
I met an English
photographer in Paris

955
00:46:06,764 --> 00:46:09,667
who... documented Paris.

956
00:46:10,468 --> 00:46:12,437
And his name was Harold Chapman.

957
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:14,172
He was photographing
the collections

958
00:46:14,205 --> 00:46:15,273
for the New York Times.

959
00:46:16,507 --> 00:46:18,810
He was the biggest influence
on my life, photographically.

960
00:46:20,145 --> 00:46:22,447
Here was a real photographer,

961
00:46:23,581 --> 00:46:28,453
in the mood of Fox Talbot
or Cartier-Bresson.

962
00:46:29,620 --> 00:46:31,256
This is the real thing.

963
00:46:32,257 --> 00:46:35,393
I mean, I'm talking about
serious, knowledgeable,

964
00:46:35,426 --> 00:46:37,695
discrete, and he taught me
to be invisible...

965
00:46:38,830 --> 00:46:41,900
he said, "Stop waving
that camera around like a fan."

966
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:43,869
That was his expression.

967
00:46:43,902 --> 00:46:46,437
And... I think it's best
that way,

968
00:46:46,471 --> 00:46:48,406
to just be in the background
as much as you can

969
00:46:48,439 --> 00:46:50,708
and not ever disturb the action.

970
00:46:51,009 --> 00:46:52,643
And never set anything up.

971
00:46:52,677 --> 00:46:53,678
Oh!

972
00:46:53,711 --> 00:46:55,580
Because first off
you don't get a picture.

973
00:46:55,613 --> 00:46:57,382
You know, people immediately go,

974
00:46:57,415 --> 00:46:59,284
give you some
Vogue look or some nonsense.

975
00:47:02,287 --> 00:47:04,255
BILL: Oh absolutely.
Not a photographer.

976
00:47:08,326 --> 00:47:09,861
BILL:
Oh, I wouldn't have a clue.

977
00:47:10,795 --> 00:47:13,098
Well I'm not
a real photographer.

978
00:47:13,498 --> 00:47:15,266
I'm a fashion historian.

979
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,002
That's what I'm interested in:

980
00:47:17,035 --> 00:47:18,703
how clothes are made,
how they're cut,

981
00:47:18,736 --> 00:47:20,705
how they're worn,
how they make women look,

982
00:47:20,738 --> 00:47:23,508
what they do to the figure,
and all of that!

983
00:47:23,541 --> 00:47:24,675
You know.

984
00:47:26,978 --> 00:47:29,047
BILL: No, no, no, no...

985
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,317
I'm embarrassed by that,
it's pretty stupid that I...

986
00:47:32,350 --> 00:47:33,684
I've often wanted
to go to school

987
00:47:33,718 --> 00:47:35,653
and I've thought about it,
and then many people said,

988
00:47:35,686 --> 00:47:37,956
"Oh don't go, you'll wreck--
don't, you mustn't go,"

989
00:47:37,989 --> 00:47:40,458
and... I still--
every day I think that.

990
00:47:41,259 --> 00:47:43,761
And I'm--and the other point
is, you see...

991
00:47:44,095 --> 00:47:45,663
it's hard for you to understand

992
00:47:45,696 --> 00:47:47,999
but I'm properly,
basically very shy.

993
00:47:48,633 --> 00:47:51,869
And sometimes it's very hard
for me to go out on the street.

994
00:47:52,637 --> 00:47:54,172
You know...

995
00:47:57,943 --> 00:48:00,145
[Bill fidgeting]

996
00:48:20,731 --> 00:48:21,832
You know...

997
00:48:21,866 --> 00:48:23,234
when you photograph
on the street,

998
00:48:23,268 --> 00:48:24,769
you're photographing
the public.

999
00:48:24,802 --> 00:48:26,437
The street life,

1000
00:48:26,837 --> 00:48:29,374
as we all know, and you go
around with a camera.

1001
00:48:30,375 --> 00:48:33,578
I see pictures that I don't take
that I know I should take.

1002
00:48:34,879 --> 00:48:38,416
But I don't have the guts to
put up the camera and take it.

1003
00:48:38,616 --> 00:48:41,519
And... you know,
their privacy is involved

1004
00:48:41,552 --> 00:48:43,388
and you don't run up
like a thug.

1005
00:48:43,421 --> 00:48:45,756
You know, in a way,
in a funny way,

1006
00:48:45,790 --> 00:48:48,593
I have this feeling that
I'm stealing their shadows.

1007
00:48:48,626 --> 00:48:50,761
I'm not stealing their handbags!

1008
00:48:50,795 --> 00:48:53,364
I'm stealing their shadows,
and...

1009
00:48:53,398 --> 00:48:55,933
yeah, I have a very
uneasy feeling about it,

1010
00:48:55,967 --> 00:48:59,504
but I suppose I'm so driven

1011
00:48:59,537 --> 00:49:03,074
to record
and document this that...

1012
00:49:03,408 --> 00:49:05,643
that I do it, you know,

1013
00:49:05,676 --> 00:49:08,346
and that's why if someone
isn't dressed with some style,

1014
00:49:08,779 --> 00:49:11,082
I wouldn't...
it has no interest to me.

1015
00:49:14,652 --> 00:49:16,821
BILL: Oh, they weren't--
they weren't allowed.

1016
00:49:16,854 --> 00:49:18,723
No,
they wouldn't let cameras in.

1017
00:49:18,756 --> 00:49:20,891
There used to be people
who would bring trick cameras

1018
00:49:20,925 --> 00:49:22,227
in the head of a cane,

1019
00:49:22,260 --> 00:49:23,328
or all sorts of things.

1020
00:49:23,361 --> 00:49:24,929
No, they didn't
allow photographs,

1021
00:49:24,962 --> 00:49:26,831
you would see the show
and then...

1022
00:49:26,864 --> 00:49:29,100
they would make arrangements
to photograph one model

1023
00:49:29,134 --> 00:49:31,102
at an appointed hour afterwards.

1024
00:49:32,070 --> 00:49:34,605
[***]

1025
00:49:37,508 --> 00:49:39,844
NARRATOR:  So fervently
committed was Cunningham

1026
00:49:39,877 --> 00:49:42,980
to never crossing the line
in his role as a journalist

1027
00:49:43,014 --> 00:49:44,249
and fashion historian

1028
00:49:44,582 --> 00:49:48,353
that he was known to not accept
so much as a glass of water

1029
00:49:48,386 --> 00:49:51,989
when offered, even at any
of the thousands of events

1030
00:49:52,023 --> 00:49:54,625
and fashion shows
he covered in his lifetime.

1031
00:49:56,394 --> 00:49:58,896
While other journalists
traveled first class to Paris

1032
00:49:58,929 --> 00:50:01,032
and stayed
at the fanciest hotels,

1033
00:50:01,066 --> 00:50:02,867
Cunningham traveled coach.

1034
00:50:03,201 --> 00:50:06,204
His luggage consisted
of plastic deli bags

1035
00:50:06,237 --> 00:50:08,306
with his clothes stuffed inside,

1036
00:50:08,339 --> 00:50:10,208
and he stayed at a tiny

1037
00:50:10,241 --> 00:50:13,078
and decidedly
un-chic Paris hotel.

1038
00:50:19,150 --> 00:50:21,419
BILL: Oh, to me
it's vitally important.

1039
00:50:21,452 --> 00:50:23,154
First, by nature, I think.

1040
00:50:23,921 --> 00:50:25,923
See, my mother
was a very shy person,

1041
00:50:25,956 --> 00:50:28,259
very very shy
and very discrete, and...

1042
00:50:28,293 --> 00:50:31,696
so it probably
comes natural to me.

1043
00:50:31,729 --> 00:50:33,331
My dad was the opposite,

1044
00:50:33,364 --> 00:50:34,532
he wouldn't ring the doorbell,

1045
00:50:34,565 --> 00:50:36,434
he'd just go on in
and say, "Hi," you know.

1046
00:50:36,467 --> 00:50:37,368
[laughter]

1047
00:50:38,403 --> 00:50:41,339
So I... I have
conflicting feelings that way,

1048
00:50:41,372 --> 00:50:44,475
but I think that we're not
the story, that's it,

1049
00:50:44,509 --> 00:50:45,910
and you have to understand that,

1050
00:50:45,943 --> 00:50:47,712
and you're out
just to capture the story,

1051
00:50:47,745 --> 00:50:51,382
and you can't ever...
disturb the story.

1052
00:50:51,416 --> 00:50:52,883
The minute you disturb it...

1053
00:50:54,119 --> 00:50:57,155
there's nothing there, then
it's something else, it's fake.

1054
00:50:57,588 --> 00:51:00,425
So what I try to do is,
just as quietly as possible,

1055
00:51:00,458 --> 00:51:04,862
get around before
people start acting up

1056
00:51:05,263 --> 00:51:06,597
or playing up to the camera,

1057
00:51:06,631 --> 00:51:08,566
if you will,
or whatever it is, you know...

1058
00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:11,001
and I feel that, you know,
it's...

1059
00:51:11,336 --> 00:51:14,572
it just doesn't--it isn't help,
the filament's not flattering...

1060
00:51:14,605 --> 00:51:18,008
it's just not real,
I just think that...

1061
00:51:18,243 --> 00:51:20,044
to stay in the background

1062
00:51:20,077 --> 00:51:22,480
and do your job and do it
as best as you can...

1063
00:51:27,918 --> 00:51:31,689
Oh, the freedom of going out
and every day

1064
00:51:31,722 --> 00:51:34,192
you've got the whole world
before you in New York,

1065
00:51:34,225 --> 00:51:36,161
it's all there... to discover.

1066
00:51:36,194 --> 00:51:37,462
Everything!

1067
00:51:38,229 --> 00:51:39,697
No matter where you go,

1068
00:51:39,730 --> 00:51:42,099
I mean, I get on my bike
and I go downtown, I go here--

1069
00:51:42,133 --> 00:51:44,402
you can't imagine what it is.

1070
00:51:44,435 --> 00:51:46,237
Everyone thinks
I'm told to go here--

1071
00:51:46,271 --> 00:51:47,738
I'm not told to go anywhere.

1072
00:51:48,273 --> 00:51:49,974
I go by instinct.

1073
00:51:50,007 --> 00:51:52,843
I mean, that's what
I'm talking about, discovery,

1074
00:51:52,877 --> 00:51:54,179
in this city.

1075
00:51:54,579 --> 00:51:57,014
Everywhere you go:
the Lower East Side,

1076
00:51:57,047 --> 00:51:59,717
you go down into SoHo,
or the Village areas.

1077
00:52:00,117 --> 00:52:01,886
Look at the streets.

1078
00:52:02,987 --> 00:52:04,689
[***]

1079
00:52:04,722 --> 00:52:08,058
Now I know I photograph it,
but discreetly,

1080
00:52:08,092 --> 00:52:12,129
the bag people
and the homeless people.

1081
00:52:12,163 --> 00:52:14,565
You look at the shapes
and the forms,

1082
00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:18,336
it's like being
in the Middle Ages of Germany.

1083
00:52:19,404 --> 00:52:20,971
It's right here in New York.

1084
00:52:21,005 --> 00:52:24,409
Dusk is setting on the streets
and you'll see figures hunched

1085
00:52:24,442 --> 00:52:27,011
with great packs
on their backs going by

1086
00:52:27,044 --> 00:52:28,546
and digging in trash cans,

1087
00:52:28,579 --> 00:52:32,583
all of that, I mean this city
is extraordinary.

1088
00:52:32,850 --> 00:52:35,386
The things that are...
here...

1089
00:52:35,820 --> 00:52:37,955
people say,
"Don't you want to travel?"

1090
00:52:37,988 --> 00:52:39,290
Hell, I don't want to travel!

1091
00:52:39,324 --> 00:52:40,591
I don't want
to leave this place,

1092
00:52:40,625 --> 00:52:42,126
I can't wait to go out
in the morning,

1093
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:44,094
I can't wait to run out
in a snowstorm,

1094
00:52:44,128 --> 00:52:46,163
I can't wait to run out
in a rainstorm...

1095
00:52:46,197 --> 00:52:48,098
[***]

1096
00:52:48,132 --> 00:52:50,768
the cold or the heat
where people react differently

1097
00:52:50,801 --> 00:52:52,102
and dress differently.

1098
00:52:52,370 --> 00:52:53,871
I mean it's fantastic.

1099
00:52:56,907 --> 00:52:58,543
Oh, I don't think of it as work.

1100
00:52:59,577 --> 00:53:01,446
I go out and enjoy myself.
With a camera.

1101
00:53:03,848 --> 00:53:05,182
BILL: Oh yes.

1102
00:53:05,216 --> 00:53:07,818
I don't know
if you'd call them pictures

1103
00:53:07,852 --> 00:53:10,087
but I go out and snap
the camera, yeah.

1104
00:53:13,558 --> 00:53:15,192
I don't think so.

1105
00:53:15,626 --> 00:53:18,729
I... no, I don't know,
I don't think so.

1106
00:53:19,196 --> 00:53:21,232
It's just I always
carry the camera with me

1107
00:53:21,266 --> 00:53:23,100
and no matter where
you go in New York City,

1108
00:53:23,133 --> 00:53:24,702
you see something marvelous.

1109
00:53:27,004 --> 00:53:28,873
Oh, I repair them.
I have all the old stuff--

1110
00:53:28,906 --> 00:53:31,208
in fact, when the truck
ran over me in October,

1111
00:53:31,242 --> 00:53:33,678
the first thing that the guys
at the photo lab said was,

1112
00:53:33,711 --> 00:53:36,881
"Oh god! I hope the truck
ran over those cameras!"

1113
00:53:36,914 --> 00:53:38,249
[laughter]

1114
00:53:38,283 --> 00:53:39,384
Well it didn't.

1115
00:53:39,417 --> 00:53:40,885
The cameras were all perfect,

1116
00:53:40,918 --> 00:53:42,587
they were in shape
and I'm still using them--

1117
00:53:42,620 --> 00:53:44,989
they were so mad, they've been
dying to throw that stuff out,

1118
00:53:45,022 --> 00:53:46,457
it was really a hoot.

1119
00:53:46,491 --> 00:53:48,493
[***]

1120
00:53:54,899 --> 00:53:56,434
BILL:
I was under the truck wheel

1121
00:53:56,467 --> 00:53:58,202
and all was thinking while
he was driving down the street--

1122
00:53:58,235 --> 00:53:59,837
I thought, "Oh, you dope!

1123
00:53:59,870 --> 00:54:01,672
You don't have
health insurance!"

1124
00:54:01,706 --> 00:54:02,973
[laughter]

1125
00:54:03,007 --> 00:54:04,575
And the other thing
I was thinking was,

1126
00:54:04,609 --> 00:54:06,477
well I was on my way
to a job, and I thought,

1127
00:54:06,511 --> 00:54:08,145
"Well I've got enough pictures

1128
00:54:08,178 --> 00:54:10,147
to fill the two pages
in The Times."

1129
00:54:10,615 --> 00:54:12,617
You see, for this kind of work:
out in the rain,

1130
00:54:12,650 --> 00:54:15,286
out in the zero weather,
out in the snow--

1131
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,489
electronic cameras
are too sensitive.

1132
00:54:18,689 --> 00:54:20,491
They're for studio,
they're for different...

1133
00:54:20,525 --> 00:54:21,659
you know, different reasons.

1134
00:54:21,692 --> 00:54:22,793
These are like tanks!

1135
00:54:22,827 --> 00:54:25,095
These are all
second-hand Nikons.

1136
00:54:25,696 --> 00:54:27,264
Here in Carnegie Hall

1137
00:54:27,298 --> 00:54:29,867
I got a whole bunch of French
photographers studios.

1138
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:33,471
Back in the '60s,

1139
00:54:34,004 --> 00:54:36,006
those kids used to give me
all their old cameras.

1140
00:54:36,607 --> 00:54:38,776
And one of them, he was...

1141
00:54:38,809 --> 00:54:40,110
the most encouraging of all,

1142
00:54:40,144 --> 00:54:41,912
fellow by the name
of Pierre Houlès...

1143
00:54:42,313 --> 00:54:44,682
and he was fantastic,
he gave me lenses,

1144
00:54:44,715 --> 00:54:47,151
and--if someone's going
to rob me on the street

1145
00:54:47,184 --> 00:54:49,920
and I had Pierre's body
and those lenses,

1146
00:54:50,287 --> 00:54:51,789
there'd be a fight to the death

1147
00:54:51,822 --> 00:54:54,291
because I wouldn't give
those up, for nothing.

1148
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,127
Of course I use them!

1149
00:54:57,362 --> 00:54:59,730
They were...
are good luck also.

1150
00:54:59,764 --> 00:55:02,500
["Hot Shot"
by Karen Young plays]

1151
00:55:19,917 --> 00:55:21,919
[song continues]

1152
00:55:25,423 --> 00:55:27,458
BILL: The other night,
at the Public Library,

1153
00:55:27,492 --> 00:55:28,959
one of the curators
of the photograph--

1154
00:55:28,993 --> 00:55:30,595
I don't know what,
who they were really,

1155
00:55:30,628 --> 00:55:32,863
came up to me and said,
"One of our young men you told

1156
00:55:32,897 --> 00:55:36,767
you have documented
the Gay Pride Parade

1157
00:55:37,402 --> 00:55:38,969
since the first one."

1158
00:55:39,003 --> 00:55:40,538
I said, "Yes I have,
as a matter of fact.

1159
00:55:40,571 --> 00:55:42,106
But I've never
published a picture."

1160
00:55:42,740 --> 00:55:45,142
And they said, "Would you care
to let us have the pictures?

1161
00:55:45,175 --> 00:55:47,512
We'd be interested in having
them for the library."

1162
00:55:47,545 --> 00:55:48,979
But, I don't think they would,

1163
00:55:49,013 --> 00:55:51,382
you know because there's nothing
indiscrete in them.

1164
00:55:51,816 --> 00:55:54,251
Well I don't know whether
they're looking for,

1165
00:55:54,284 --> 00:55:56,387
couple of guys kissing
or holding hands or...

1166
00:55:56,421 --> 00:55:57,522
you know, something like that.

1167
00:55:58,723 --> 00:55:59,990
I wouldn't do that, because
I wouldn't disturb the guys.

1168
00:56:00,024 --> 00:56:02,126
I just documented it
because I thought,

1169
00:56:02,159 --> 00:56:04,328
"in our era, in our time,

1170
00:56:04,361 --> 00:56:06,664
this could happen
no where else in the world.

1171
00:56:07,465 --> 00:56:08,999
Certainly not in Europe!

1172
00:56:09,700 --> 00:56:12,637
Or anywhere, I mean,
when people despair of America,

1173
00:56:13,037 --> 00:56:14,939
think what goes on in America

1174
00:56:15,205 --> 00:56:17,207
that couldn't happen
anywhere else.

1175
00:56:18,375 --> 00:56:21,045
I mean, the luckiest thing
we have is to be

1176
00:56:21,412 --> 00:56:23,013
Americans
and working in America,

1177
00:56:23,047 --> 00:56:24,181
as far as I'm concerned...

1178
00:56:24,214 --> 00:56:26,083
I know everyone says
you shouldn't say that

1179
00:56:26,116 --> 00:56:27,552
but I think it's fantastic.

1180
00:56:27,585 --> 00:56:30,521
["Hot Shot" continues playing]

1181
00:56:42,099 --> 00:56:43,501
[song ends]

1182
00:56:52,943 --> 00:56:56,346
Oh well, I was a newspaper
delivery boy as a kid.

1183
00:56:56,380 --> 00:56:58,749
So I'm used to bicycles,
and I used to deliver...

1184
00:56:58,783 --> 00:57:01,452
my hats on the bike. [laughter]

1185
00:57:01,686 --> 00:57:05,723
Then, when there was
a strike in the '60s,

1186
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:07,958
there was a Metro strike,

1187
00:57:07,992 --> 00:57:10,394
I just got a bike
to ride around and...

1188
00:57:10,427 --> 00:57:11,562
I just love it,

1189
00:57:11,596 --> 00:57:12,963
it's wonderful to get around.

1190
00:57:12,997 --> 00:57:14,499
And you see things, you see.

1191
00:57:14,832 --> 00:57:17,134
And you can jump off the bike
and photograph,

1192
00:57:17,167 --> 00:57:19,036
and you're not down
in the Subway where you can't--

1193
00:57:19,069 --> 00:57:20,871
where you see other things
in the Subway.

1194
00:57:20,905 --> 00:57:23,273
But this way you're up
and you're free like a bird.

1195
00:57:23,307 --> 00:57:25,342
Everything is free to be free.

1196
00:57:26,143 --> 00:57:27,177
You know what I mean?

1197
00:57:27,211 --> 00:57:28,245
So you're not tied,
so you can see.

1198
00:57:29,446 --> 00:57:32,249
BILL: Oh no,
the cheapest, the better.

1199
00:57:32,282 --> 00:57:34,351
Cheaper the better.
They're only gonna steal it.

1200
00:57:34,384 --> 00:57:36,854
I've had... I'm buying
a new one right now

1201
00:57:36,887 --> 00:57:39,724
since the truck
wrecked the other one...

1202
00:57:39,757 --> 00:57:41,391
and this will be
my twenty-fifth.

1203
00:57:42,326 --> 00:57:45,029
In what, maybe 25 years.

1204
00:57:45,062 --> 00:57:46,330
[distant siren]

1205
00:57:46,531 --> 00:57:49,333
And incidentally, earlier,
you asked me what my--

1206
00:57:49,366 --> 00:57:51,669
one of the most important
fashion memories were.

1207
00:57:51,969 --> 00:57:53,971
[***]

1208
00:57:58,543 --> 00:58:01,946
It was the fashion French
and Americans at Versailles.

1209
00:58:03,814 --> 00:58:06,183
That was
a once in a lifetime event.

1210
00:58:07,184 --> 00:58:08,619
Because you had

1211
00:58:09,086 --> 00:58:12,757
six of the top French designers
at the peak of their career.

1212
00:58:13,991 --> 00:58:15,693
And six Americans,

1213
00:58:16,493 --> 00:58:19,363
at the peak,
especially Stephen Burrows.

1214
00:58:19,997 --> 00:58:22,667
Here came this young,
black fellow

1215
00:58:22,700 --> 00:58:24,902
with dresses
like you'd never seen,

1216
00:58:24,935 --> 00:58:27,872
on models like the French
had never seen,

1217
00:58:27,905 --> 00:58:29,740
and when they walked
across the stage with

1218
00:58:29,774 --> 00:58:31,441
their hair pulled up tight
and...

1219
00:58:31,475 --> 00:58:35,813
a stripped ostrich bone

1220
00:58:35,846 --> 00:58:39,817
going through their hair,
the audience nearly went crazy.

1221
00:58:39,850 --> 00:58:41,852
[***]

1222
00:58:41,886 --> 00:58:43,621
And Beth Hardison
was one of the models

1223
00:58:43,654 --> 00:58:46,323
and she shot them
her policewoman look.

1224
00:58:46,724 --> 00:58:50,294
And that's
when they went bananas.

1225
00:58:50,327 --> 00:58:53,598
Oh, stern, and--it was just
at the time of... was it, Watts,

1226
00:58:53,631 --> 00:58:56,400
so the French were all aware
of the American trouble,

1227
00:58:56,433 --> 00:58:59,003
and here were these empresses,

1228
00:58:59,403 --> 00:59:01,538
these marvelous black models,

1229
00:59:01,572 --> 00:59:03,774
Ziegfeld would have put
a show together right there.

1230
00:59:03,808 --> 00:59:05,976
It was all there for the making.

1231
00:59:08,012 --> 00:59:09,647
BILL: Oh,
there's no question about it.

1232
00:59:10,014 --> 00:59:12,750
And the Stephen Burrows,
it was fabulous.

1233
00:59:13,183 --> 00:59:14,619
Everything about it.

1234
00:59:14,819 --> 00:59:17,688
Kay Thompson, the way she
choreographed the show.

1235
00:59:17,922 --> 00:59:21,225
Liza Minelli,
singing Dancing in the Rain.

1236
00:59:21,258 --> 00:59:23,127
No sex, no props.

1237
00:59:24,128 --> 00:59:26,130
The French were
all covered with props

1238
00:59:26,163 --> 00:59:28,265
and everything else--
oh, it was fabulous.

1239
00:59:29,033 --> 00:59:32,469
It was raw, pure, raw talent

1240
00:59:32,502 --> 00:59:36,273
pressing on the wrong
raw nerve of the time,

1241
00:59:36,306 --> 00:59:39,443
which was the social change
on the streets of America.

1242
00:59:41,511 --> 00:59:43,213
Oh, it was right there.

1243
00:59:43,914 --> 00:59:45,082
That's why, the tiaras

1244
00:59:45,115 --> 00:59:47,251
were falling
off their heads practically.

1245
00:59:47,284 --> 00:59:49,519
They were running
back stage afterwards.

1246
00:59:49,820 --> 00:59:51,255
You never saw such a thing.

1247
00:59:51,488 --> 00:59:53,590
But it was the emotion
because it had touched

1248
00:59:53,624 --> 00:59:55,192
all the wrong nerves.

1249
00:59:55,225 --> 00:59:58,495
[***]

1250
01:00:26,724 --> 01:00:28,726
[***]

1251
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,763
[***]

1252
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:35,132
BILL: I'm waiting now
for the next Courrèges

1253
01:00:35,165 --> 01:00:37,902
to take us
into a new modern era,

1254
01:00:37,935 --> 01:00:39,069
and we're on the threshold
right now.

1255
01:00:39,904 --> 01:00:41,171
- Oh!

1256
01:00:41,205 --> 01:00:43,607
Gonna happen any minute.
Any minute.

1257
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,410
Someone, somewhere,
the whole fashion world

1258
01:00:46,443 --> 01:00:48,879
is just ripe
for something new to happen.

1259
01:00:50,848 --> 01:00:53,550
Someone will come with this
marvelous idea and lead the way,

1260
01:00:53,583 --> 01:00:56,186
and then others
will come and develop it...

1261
01:00:56,921 --> 01:01:00,590
expand on the idea, but oh yes,
it's always one person.

1262
01:01:06,030 --> 01:01:08,598
BILL: Well actually,
I've been in the fashion world

1263
01:01:08,632 --> 01:01:10,100
a little over 50 years.

1264
01:01:11,468 --> 01:01:14,338
And... anyone could be around
in something a long time

1265
01:01:14,371 --> 01:01:15,773
but what have you
done in 50 years?

1266
01:01:15,806 --> 01:01:17,507
I don't know if I've done
very much.

1267
01:01:30,454 --> 01:01:33,457
God. I'm just a normal guy

1268
01:01:33,490 --> 01:01:36,626
going off...
working at something I...

1269
01:01:37,227 --> 01:01:39,463
I'm fortunate
that I can do what I want,

1270
01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:42,366
because I live
in a very tiny way...

1271
01:01:42,399 --> 01:01:44,501
you saw, I live in a cave!

1272
01:01:44,769 --> 01:01:46,136
But that doesn't matter to me.

1273
01:01:46,636 --> 01:01:49,706
The point is to...
and I just enjoy it,

1274
01:01:49,740 --> 01:01:52,142
I suppose
it's the greatest luxury,

1275
01:01:52,609 --> 01:01:59,383
to be able to do that and--

1276
01:01:59,416 --> 01:02:02,052
Well, I'm not talented,
if that's what you mean,

1277
01:02:02,086 --> 01:02:03,153
that's for sure...

1278
01:02:03,187 --> 01:02:05,722
no matter what anyone says.

1279
01:02:07,491 --> 01:02:08,759
I don't know, I just have--

1280
01:02:08,793 --> 01:02:12,129
I love documenting
with a camera, that's all.

1281
01:02:15,099 --> 01:02:16,333
BILL: No.

1282
01:02:16,366 --> 01:02:17,968
Who would ever want to retire?

1283
01:02:18,002 --> 01:02:19,669
I'm having too much fun!

1284
01:02:19,703 --> 01:02:21,338
Oh no, I love my work,
I love...

1285
01:02:21,371 --> 01:02:23,540
that's what's so wonderful
about The Times.

1286
01:02:23,941 --> 01:02:26,410
Each week,
they give us that space,

1287
01:02:26,443 --> 01:02:28,946
I'm presented,
it's like a white canvas.

1288
01:02:35,552 --> 01:02:38,522
The Times is very generous,
just realize that--

1289
01:02:38,989 --> 01:02:41,959
those pages every week
they give me to

1290
01:02:42,192 --> 01:02:44,094
just put things
that I see that I love

1291
01:02:44,128 --> 01:02:45,930
that I think the reader
might be interested in--

1292
01:02:45,963 --> 01:02:48,799
hopefully will
be interested in.

1293
01:02:48,833 --> 01:02:51,301
Oh no, ideas are
the easiest thing to me.

1294
01:02:51,335 --> 01:02:52,669
It's what I have the most of.

1295
01:02:52,702 --> 01:02:54,038
That's the easiest thing,
I have tons of--

1296
01:02:56,006 --> 01:02:58,342
Oh... spelling.

1297
01:02:58,375 --> 01:02:59,709
[laughter]

1298
01:02:59,743 --> 01:03:01,478
Getting the names
and getting them right.

1299
01:03:01,511 --> 01:03:03,848
Oh, it's treacherous,
you can't imagine what a horror.

1300
01:03:03,881 --> 01:03:05,715
Fridays, when I'm there
putting together--

1301
01:03:05,749 --> 01:03:07,117
but The Times is marvelous,

1302
01:03:07,151 --> 01:03:09,153
it's filled with
wonderful people...

1303
01:03:09,353 --> 01:03:12,189
there's a camaraderie
where they all stand behind,

1304
01:03:12,222 --> 01:03:14,491
they help you get the--
oh you can't imagine.

1305
01:03:14,524 --> 01:03:16,126
Oh, that's a horror trip.

1306
01:03:17,027 --> 01:03:17,661
[laughter]

1307
01:03:17,694 --> 01:03:19,263
- Yes.
- MARK: Okay.

1308
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:36,746
[sniffles]

1309
01:03:52,396 --> 01:03:53,730
The...

1310
01:03:55,332 --> 01:03:59,536
AIDS has been so...
tearing apart.

1311
01:04:00,137 --> 01:04:02,139
[weeps]

1312
01:04:08,445 --> 01:04:11,381
And so... what I think
is that you go out

1313
01:04:11,415 --> 01:04:13,984
and you find something wonderful

1314
01:04:14,018 --> 01:04:16,353
and something
to inspire some way.

1315
01:04:16,386 --> 01:04:18,822
And you just, really,
you pick up where a lot

1316
01:04:18,855 --> 01:04:21,591
of these extraordinary
talents that we've lost

1317
01:04:21,959 --> 01:04:24,528
have left off, and you
try to carry on for them.

1318
01:04:24,561 --> 01:04:26,563
And I think that's our job.

1319
01:04:29,233 --> 01:04:31,735
[***]

1320
01:04:35,139 --> 01:04:37,908
NARRATOR:  In 1994,
when this interview took place,

1321
01:04:37,942 --> 01:04:40,477
the AIDS epidemic
was in full throttle.

1322
01:04:42,112 --> 01:04:44,448
So many talented
people were dying

1323
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:47,985
and those that lived through
it were greatly affected.

1324
01:04:48,852 --> 01:04:51,488
[***]

1325
01:04:53,924 --> 01:04:56,593
Among his closest friends
was his neighbor,

1326
01:04:56,626 --> 01:04:59,629
the great artist
and illustrator, Antonio Lopez,

1327
01:04:59,663 --> 01:05:02,732
and his boyfriend
and collaborator, Juan Ramos.

1328
01:05:03,467 --> 01:05:06,670
When Lopez became ill in 1987,

1329
01:05:06,703 --> 01:05:10,674
his workload rapidly diminished
and he had no health insurance.

1330
01:05:11,108 --> 01:05:13,043
Cunningham offered to buy

1331
01:05:13,077 --> 01:05:16,546
one of Lopez'
paintings for $130,000.

1332
01:05:17,681 --> 01:05:19,549
He gave Lopez the money,

1333
01:05:19,583 --> 01:05:23,387
and then immediately returned
the same painting to him

1334
01:05:23,420 --> 01:05:25,489
so he could sell it once again.

1335
01:05:26,690 --> 01:05:28,392
Over his lifetime,

1336
01:05:28,425 --> 01:05:30,794
Cunningham would quietly donate

1337
01:05:30,827 --> 01:05:33,530
millions of dollars
to AIDS charities,

1338
01:05:33,563 --> 01:05:35,532
as well as the Catholic Church.

1339
01:05:37,701 --> 01:05:41,105
When I go off, now,
each morning I think,

1340
01:05:41,138 --> 01:05:44,408
as Pierre used to say...
work well.

1341
01:05:44,874 --> 01:05:46,243
I do that for--

1342
01:05:46,276 --> 01:05:48,878
I think that
all the time now, and...

1343
01:05:51,215 --> 01:05:52,849
[Bill sniffles]

1344
01:06:01,125 --> 01:06:02,492
[***]

1345
01:06:02,526 --> 01:06:04,461
NARRATOR:
Over the next 24 years,

1346
01:06:04,494 --> 01:06:05,962
Bill Cunningham went on

1347
01:06:05,996 --> 01:06:08,498
to purchase 20-plus
new bicycles

1348
01:06:08,532 --> 01:06:12,236
while documenting his beloved
New York and Paris.

1349
01:06:12,869 --> 01:06:14,771
In the late '90s
he discovered

1350
01:06:14,804 --> 01:06:16,573
his trademark blue uniform,

1351
01:06:16,606 --> 01:06:19,076
worn by Parisian
sanitation workers,

1352
01:06:19,576 --> 01:06:22,046
and finally had
something to wear

1353
01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:23,813
that wasn't from a thrift shop

1354
01:06:23,847 --> 01:06:26,583
or a socialite's dead
husband's closet.

1355
01:06:27,984 --> 01:06:31,188
Despite his assuredness that
the French would never bestow

1356
01:06:31,221 --> 01:06:33,390
an honor
to a lightweight like himself,

1357
01:06:33,823 --> 01:06:36,893
he was awarded as
an Officer of Arts and Letters

1358
01:06:36,926 --> 01:06:40,364
by the French Ministry
of Culture in 2008.

1359
01:06:41,098 --> 01:06:45,001
His longtime friend,
photographer Jean-Luce Huré,

1360
01:06:45,035 --> 01:06:48,105
pictured here with Cunningham
and designer Coco Chanel

1361
01:06:48,138 --> 01:06:52,442
in Paris, circa 1971,
presented him the honor.

1362
01:06:52,476 --> 01:06:54,878
[***]

1363
01:06:54,911 --> 01:06:56,746
Over the years
Cunningham developed

1364
01:06:56,780 --> 01:06:58,448
a very keen
and purposeful knack

1365
01:06:58,482 --> 01:07:01,818
for keeping the many facets
of his life separate.

1366
01:07:01,851 --> 01:07:04,354
[***]

1367
01:07:08,325 --> 01:07:09,693
NARRATOR:  There's little doubt

1368
01:07:09,726 --> 01:07:11,761
that Bill Cunningham
led a most frugal life,

1369
01:07:12,162 --> 01:07:14,598
but given the vast size
of his archives

1370
01:07:14,631 --> 01:07:16,766
and his quiet generosity,

1371
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,002
he clearly knew
what was valuable.

1372
01:07:21,138 --> 01:07:22,872
Since the early '60s,

1373
01:07:22,906 --> 01:07:25,309
he would amass
a collection of artwork,

1374
01:07:25,342 --> 01:07:27,211
illustrations, and diamonds

1375
01:07:27,244 --> 01:07:29,446
he bought in Paris
with his paycheck.

1376
01:07:30,847 --> 01:07:33,083
He stored them in pillowcases,

1377
01:07:33,117 --> 01:07:36,753
tucked away in his tiny cave
at Carnegie Hall Studios.

1378
01:07:38,788 --> 01:07:40,990
He could sometimes
be quick to snap,

1379
01:07:41,024 --> 01:07:44,361
or be firmly and loudly
dismissive if being questioned

1380
01:07:44,394 --> 01:07:47,197
or interrupted by anyone
while doing his work.

1381
01:07:48,598 --> 01:07:50,167
But ask most anyone

1382
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:52,369
of their encounters
with Cunningham,

1383
01:07:52,402 --> 01:07:55,972
and they will remember
precisely where they were,

1384
01:07:56,005 --> 01:07:59,143
what they were wearing,
and especially

1385
01:07:59,176 --> 01:08:03,980
whether or not they made
or didn't make his Sunday pages.

1386
01:08:04,414 --> 01:08:06,483
[***]

1387
01:08:06,683 --> 01:08:08,685
While the attention
that was brought to him

1388
01:08:08,718 --> 01:08:10,954
via a growing number
of accolades

1389
01:08:10,987 --> 01:08:15,125
and a popular documentary
in 2011 may have brought him

1390
01:08:15,159 --> 01:08:17,494
some degree
of lifetime achievement,

1391
01:08:17,527 --> 01:08:20,197
it is more likely
he regretted it.

1392
01:08:21,198 --> 01:08:24,434
On the night the documentary
premiered in New York,

1393
01:08:24,468 --> 01:08:27,904
he stayed outside,
on the street of course,

1394
01:08:27,937 --> 01:08:31,175
took photographs,
and never saw the movie.

1395
01:08:33,410 --> 01:08:36,580
When he died in June of 2016,

1396
01:08:36,613 --> 01:08:39,183
it was as if New York
stood still.

1397
01:08:39,816 --> 01:08:42,619
As if everyone
that ever knew him,

1398
01:08:42,652 --> 01:08:46,390
of him, or had
their photograph taken by him,

1399
01:08:46,423 --> 01:08:48,192
lost a good friend.

1400
01:08:49,359 --> 01:08:51,961
Father Kevin Madigan
eulogized that,

1401
01:08:52,196 --> 01:08:54,431
"It was the mission
of Bill Cunningham

1402
01:08:54,464 --> 01:08:57,834
to capture and celebrate
beauty wherever he found it.

1403
01:08:58,302 --> 01:09:02,005
His whole life was dedicated
to that single pursuit."

1404
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:04,441
[***]

1405
01:09:04,741 --> 01:09:06,643
Like any true artist,

1406
01:09:06,676 --> 01:09:09,479
he helped people to see
in a new way,

1407
01:09:09,846 --> 01:09:13,650
see what might otherwise
have gone unnoticed

1408
01:09:13,683 --> 01:09:16,486
in the hurried pace
of city life.

1409
01:09:21,191 --> 01:09:23,560
[***]

1410
01:09:26,730 --> 01:09:28,732
NARRATOR:  A famous quote
about Cunningham

1411
01:09:28,765 --> 01:09:32,569
by longtime American Vogue
Editor-In-Chief Anna Wintour,

1412
01:09:32,769 --> 01:09:36,139
pictured here over the years
in photographs by Cunningham,

1413
01:09:36,172 --> 01:09:37,541
once said,

1414
01:09:37,741 --> 01:09:40,210
"We all get dressed for Bill."

1415
01:09:40,744 --> 01:09:43,413
[***]

1416
01:09:44,448 --> 01:09:46,850
Many now wonder

1417
01:09:47,150 --> 01:09:50,620
if there will ever be
anyone like Bill Cunningham

1418
01:09:50,654 --> 01:09:52,922
to dress for again.

1419
01:09:54,291 --> 01:09:56,893
[***]

1420
01:10:07,203 --> 01:10:08,905
Well this is all off
the top of my head!

1421
01:10:08,938 --> 01:10:11,641
I didn't really think about
things to speak to you about,

1422
01:10:11,675 --> 01:10:14,544
I thought we were only gonna go
something for about ten minutes,

1423
01:10:14,578 --> 01:10:16,946
this thing has gone on
for hours, I mean.

1424
01:10:16,980 --> 01:10:19,015
MARK:
So, and again, let me just--

1425
01:10:19,048 --> 01:10:21,451
[tape rewinds]

1426
01:10:28,692 --> 01:10:30,860
[street chatter]

1427
01:10:33,062 --> 01:10:35,732
["Lift Me Up" by Moby plays]

1428
01:11:04,961 --> 01:11:07,230
[song continues]

1429
01:11:37,226 --> 01:11:40,096
[song continues]

1430
01:12:06,956 --> 01:12:09,493
[song continues]

1431
01:12:52,368 --> 01:12:55,338
[***]