In our relationship.
That is,
it is...
Honey, it ain't picture perfect.
Mm-hmm.
This moment, people would be like,
"ooh, y'all go." I'm like, "you don't know
what we went through to get to this moment."
-right? -Mm-hmm.
Um, and I don't wish it on nobody.
You know.
The end result, yeah, the love, you know,
but everything we went through,
I don't want my kids to have to go through
as much as we went through.
I want them to go though things,
I want them to have a relationship
that challenges them,
because it builds the relationship,
makes it strong.
But some of the things that we went through
at the age we went through,
no, I want my kids to be able to go live your life,
you know, have fun,
figure out who you are.
Mm-hmm.
And then, find your life partner.
They're puzzles, people.
When we say that, "are you saying you have regrets?"
no.
-No... -We did it, so they don't have to.
Yeah.
[theme music playing]
[inaudible]
we got married in 2003 in greensboro.
Uh, and then in 2004, we moved to los angeles.
So we were only married, you know, for a year,
before we moved.
I mean, we'd been together for six years.
As soon as we moved,
uh, my mom got sick back in north carolina.
And I had to go back and forth
for the next three years until my mom passed away.
And he was in the police academy
at the same time.
And we weren't, you know,
seeing eye to eye on anything.
And that was our first, you know,
couple of years of marriage.
And I think that,
and I often think this,
if we had still been home, in north carolina,
we may not have made it.
We had to figure it out.
You were forced to have conversations...
-Yeah, we had to talk. -Forced to go through things
-with your mom. -Yeah.
You can't get upset and blow up,
"I'ma go to my mama house."
there's nowhere to run.
There's nowhere to run.
Better go on to the porch out there.
You ain't... You in la.
-You ain't got no family here. -Go walk on crenshaw.
You better walk over the hill
-upto the mountains up there. -Yeah.
-And come on back.
It takes a while, it took a while for me,
to learn how to be married.
And feel good about it, you know.
Uh, my first marriage was, you know...
All of them start out well.
Um, but, you know,
my mother used to say, "'I love you' don't mean 'come live with me.'"
so,
when out of it, I was, like, "okay.
What is this?"
you know. Um...
And I, you know, but I always knew,
she was the marrying kind.
Even though, one of the first things she said to me
was, "I don't want to get married."
I'm like, "hey, been there, done that, I'm cool."
you know. Uh...
And I remember the day...
We'd been dating about two years,
and she said,
"I want to get married and I want to have babies."
and in my mind, I was like, "no, no, no.
That was not the agreement
you did not say that."
and I really, I thought
I should really give her the business about it.
But she was so... She was so serious...
I had been thinking about it.
...That I, uh,
I realized,
it was one of the few times in my life
that I realized that was not the joke to tell at that time.
You know, so,
uh, I said okay.
Okay, so we met 17 years ago,
uh, I was dancing for beyonce at the time,
and it was right when she stepped away
from destiny's child.
I had a career and a life
and all of these things before I met him,
especially married to an athlete,
I found a lot, once I wasn't gone,
I was home and I was going to all the games,
the value that people had for me
was not the same that people had for him.
Like, they assumed that I had this...
I was so lucky to be married to an athlete
which was so far away
from who I was as a human being,
that when people approached me that way, like,
they wouldn't even call me my name,
they would call me ephraim's wife.
And I'd be, like, "I have a name."
-yeah. -And so, there was a whole part of our relationship
where I had to learn how to gain my independence back,
without the independence that I had
uh, worked so hard for.
What I connected to as independence,
as far as my career and things like that are concerned.
And that was very difficult.
And I would take it out on him a lot.
I was resentful a little bit in the beginning.
Like, "oh, I quit my career for you.
And now my name is 'ephraim's wife.'"
my dream of becoming a professional wrestler
was always in the back of my head,
but my mom was in a sense, she was like,
"get your education first."
and if it comes
after, then you can follow that. And...
But he didn't tell me all of that when we met,
he had gotten into law school.
-Took the lsat. -He took the lsats,
-got into law school... -Got into a couple of law schools...
-Couple of good ones. -...And focused on wrestling.
After, I was like, okay, he's not gonna go to law school,
I was like, "okay, you wanna wrestle, you gotta wrestle."
-yeah. -No more backyard random show wrestling.
-Regular show. -And so, that's when, like,
we were, like, focused on, you know,
going to wwe.
Marriage is a constant negotiation.
You know, and everyday. I mean, you know, and I...
Now we have two girls at home,
so I live with three women.
That's a challenge for me, because he puts me
in the juggle of the children.
-What? -You do.
He'll say, "um, you girls."
right? Come on.
I'm like, "I'm not one of the girls.
I am the mother, and the wife. Not the girls."
I mean, but our biggest challenges
have been re-entry.
Because he's gone for really long times.
When we first got married,
we had a two week rule.
You can only be gone for two weeks,
and then we have to figure out how
to get to you, or you can get to us,
but two weeks is all I can take.
Um, but...
-You... -Life's not like that.
Yeah, it really has not worked out like that.
We had this thing where no matter what,
I was always at the first home game.
Which doesn't even make sense.
It does. When you're building your relationship
you have those things like that.
Your little traditions that you create.
And I was on tour with rihanna at the time,
and I tried to make it back to his first home game,
and I couldn't.
Like, I was, like,
five hours late.
We used to have this thing when he played,
I would always be there when they were practicing
on the field for the first home game,
we'd see each other, we'd give each other
our little thing
before he would walk into the stadium,
and this one, this is the last year
I danced.
I was on tour with rihanna,
I think I was in canada somewhere,
and my flight got delayed,
and I was like, "oh, no,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna miss it."
and I missed, I was late,
I came in the middle of the game,
and he was so upset.
He was like, "you missed it.
You told me you were gonna..."
and this is not to harp on him
or say that he was... He was where he was too.
We had our thing.
And so that was like, "I can't keep doing this
because my relationship is struggling."
and...
And I was a little bit older,
so I was like, "am I gonna keep doing this?
'cause it's going to probably end my relationship
if I keep doing it.
Or am I going to make the sacrifice
to not do this anymore,
this thing that I had worked so hard for,
to now
move forward in my life in this way with this person
who I want to spend the rest of my life with?"
and I made that decision.
And I made the decision to progress with my husband,
and start a family with my husband.
But that came at a very heavy price
for my wellbeing.
In terms of not seeing eye to eye,
okay, just so I can give you a better understanding.
Her mom was ill, hmm,
uh, with als.
I am going through the police academy.
We're in, what I like to refer to as a foreign place.
Yes.
Culture shock is an understatement
if you really knew where we come from.
Right. La and north carolina.
It's completely different.
The other issue, or the other thing,
to take into consideration is our age.
And then, I've never dealt with death.
Okay, so new to marriage,
dealing with death,
foreign land,
completely different
from anything I would've ever imagined
in my career choice, right?
So the emotions,
and then we presumably, we're supposed to be here
pursuing your dream.
Right?
You put all that into a pot, you got
a mess.
I didn't-- I was raised by my mom,
um, no, none,
no experience with death at this level.
And when I was getting married,
and one of the few in my family
to ever get married,
I said it, to...
"to sickness and in health," but I did not
imagine that that goes beyond her.
So when it did, and she was dealing with that,
I didn't know how to...
I didn't know how to help her.
Yes, so we got married,
and we knew we wanted to try to have a baby,
kind of, fairly quickly, so we just started living,
not protecting, but not trying, just living.
Yeah, just living.
Um, and we got, we, like, four months
after we got married, I got pregnant,
and he got two major companies reach out to him
and I was, like, "tell them both about the other one."
they need to know they're in competition.
'cause if they know they're in competition,
they're gonna move fast to get you what you want.
And both places he applied to,
the roles were supposed to be in new york,
and he started going through the process,
and neither company wanted him to be in new york,
and it was very real because, like, our support base
was in new york, we're about to have a baby,
we just bought a house.
I was uncomfortable with the thought of him interviewing,
but he was so excited,
and I'm like, "I don't want to take that from you,
but I'm not that happy
with the thought of leaving new york,
and leaving my mom.
My best friend was pregnant at the same time with me,
and, like, the thought of raising our kids together,"
like, it was uncomfortable for me, like,
and I never, I guess I never...
You never said this to me.
I never shared that with him, but,
it's like, how do you support your partner
and...
Why're you doing this?
"I really don't like you right now."
going through the motions.
"and we'd have moved all the way out here,
and you've got a job, I got a job,
like, we out here, we don't know nobody else.
Shoot, I can't... We can't even afford to get a divorce."
it was uncomfortable for me, like, and I never, I guess I never...
You never said this to me.
I never shared that with him, but,
it's like, how do you support your partner
and...
Why're you doing this?
That's crazy.
I wanted to support you,
I wanted you to be happy,
and you were, you were so excited.
Like, I don't think you know
how excited you were, and, like...
He ended up getting one of the jobs
and he, um, he went to california for a month.
And I was by myself, and I'm like,
people say they want to be there for you,
but it's like, it was very lonely,
even being home, I was alone.
But I wanted you to feel like you were
supported in that moment, so...
Yeah.
I never, till this day, have felt that, like,
throughout the entire process,
I was all, "I have full support
from my eight month expecting wife,
she knows, like, this career change is gonna change our lives
if I'm able to get into tech and out of finance."
I genuinely did not know until this very moment
that you ever felt that way,
over the last five years. That's crazy.
My contract with wwe was from 2007 to 2014.
Within that time,
I had three major injuries which...
Those were the times when I was home.
Before that,
so, at least for four and a half years,
to five years of that time,
I was home two days.
I come home, I want home-cooked food,
I want to stay in my bed,
I want to sit down.
She's like, "I've been home
all this time,
I want to go have a good dinner,
I would love to go, stay in a hotel room."
I'm like, "I just spent 20 nights in a hotel room."
"I've just been in a hotel room."
she wants to, like, she wanted to do the things
that I was doing,
and I think it caused a lot of, uh,
just a little bit of issues because
I couldn't see it from her point of view.
-Mm-hmm. -And...
And I wasn't used to having him at home.
-Yeah. -Like I said,
he leaves all the cabinets open.
So it was like,
"great, you're home, but I see socks
and cabinets open, that's all I see.
And suitcases.
Socks, suitcases, cabinets."
-so... -And so, I'd just be annoyed,
walking around the house, closing stuff, closing stuff,
cleaning up after him.
For the past four years,
he's been shooting greenleaf,
in atlanta.
And year number one,
we tried to commute with him,
so he could stay-- well, commute, and let him stay there.
So he could be, you know, be solid.
Everybody loves to be a ship, right?
But you gotta be solid.
Um, but then after that, it wasn't working
for our girls, right.
And, um, so we had to reevaluate.
Sometimes, things will happen at 9:00 p.M.,
it's midnight in atlanta.
And he's worked all day, you know.
So-- and then, sometimes he's just stressed.
And I don't wanna call him
with something that is going to be so upsetting.
And maybe I can handle it.
Um, but that doesn't always
turn out the best because ultimately,
he'll say, "I needed--
you should've called me in that situation."
-well, you know... -But that, that has caused,
you know, a lot of, a lot of tension.
That can cause a lot of tension.
First of all, if I don't know,
you can't hold me responsible for
dismissing it, or not paying it
the right amount of attention.
And that has caused problems,
because I'll be mad at him...
-You know-- -...Really mad.
-And it's like-- -he didn't even know what happened.
"what do you, what are you talking about?"
he's just not here, so I'm mad.
And, you know, I mean,
that's why I'm very grateful
to have learned
not to take stuff, you know, certain things so personally.
I mean, pay attention, listen,
so I can begin to hear
when it really is about me.
And sometimes, it just isn't.
That doesn't always feel good.
But, you know, feelings are not facts.
So just because I feel a certain way about it,
you know, and I tried my best
not to take it out on them,
you know, however I feel about it,
but, you know, and I'd have to deal with, you know...
[sighs]... With, you know, the difference
between martians and venusians all the time.
Just being a new mom by yourself is a lot,
and then, you add in the layer of, like,
moving and not having a support system.
It was just-- for me, looking back,
I'm like, I probably was, like, a lot darker
than I could even perceive,
and I'm sure he wasn't even really happy with me.
I just was sad, I was just like,
"I don't really want to be here,
and I miss my friends and, like, I miss my husband,
'cause he's at work all day,
and I don't have anyone else to talk to."
it was very isolating.
His life continued as normal,
and it felt like my life had only been disrupted.
So I wasn't mad that he had gotten his new job,
but it was just, like,
"you've-- there's been no-- you haven't missed a beat
like, we moved, you went back to work,
you made friends, like, your life, kind of, just,
it was a continuum, whereas my life
just felt like this hole."
yeah, no, I mean, I was cognizant with that, like,
I didn't know that she was gonna be
so supportive of me even taking the job
'cause that was gonna impact her career,
and, I mean, she's so career motivated
that for her, again, she's just like,
not put that on me, like, "okay,
if you have to take another job somewhere,
I'ma support you in that, I'll figure my stuff out."
that was just... That's being crazy.
But, yeah, once we were out there,
it was a whole different energy
that I was getting from her.
We were good at acting like
-it didn't happen. Right? -Mm-hmm.
'cause we would hit good spots,
and so, "let's not even worry about it.
Ain't no need to address anything.
Ain't no need to talking about it.
We good now."
but then, one little thing would pluck a nerve,
and all the bad stuff comes back up
'cause we never dealt with it.
I didn't know how to help her.
I didn't know how to help her,
and I was struggling
with what it is to be a man.
Right? I got a three-year-old,
right, and I got a-- then I got another daughter
as well, older,
you know, so there's a lot that we were dealing with
as kids, this was 24 years of age.
Yeah.
Uh, so a lot of the fights,
a lot of the arguments...
And I didn't even say finances.
-Oh. -We all know that finances, that's a major thing.
Yeah.
So in a lot of the fights,
I don't think anybody would've been able to handle it any...
They might have been able to handle some of the arguments,
-'cause we were harsh, you know, very... -Uff.
-...Very, very, yeah. -It was bad.
Yeah, it was bad, it was bad, fine.
But I'm thinking
no circumstances I would expect it
from any 24, 25-year-old person.
Uh, going through--
with the weight of the world that we had on us.
Yeah.
You know, we were good at acting like
-it didn't happen. Right? -Mm-hmm.
'cause we would hit good spots,
and so, "let's not even worry about it.
Ain't no need to address anything.
Ain't no need to talking about it.
We good now."
but then, one little thing would pluck a nerve,
and all the bad stuff comes back up
'cause we never dealt with it.
Right? And so we were so good
with looking good on the outside.
Mm-hmm.
I used to be, when I did something wrong
I'm the last to admit it.
Now, I'm happy to admit
what is my stuff.
"this is clearly my stuff."
it's a constant, um,
learning curve.
But, you know, I've been sober for 15 years,
and, you know, one of the,
one of the, uh, things that I've learned in my sobriety,
is to cultivate my, uh,
spiritual vocabulary,
to, you know, to, uh,
really get closer to a god of my understanding.
Stopping, uh, drinking,
you know, is just, for me,
that's the beginning. The work starts after that.
The void that I had from quitting dance
and quitting my career,
I expected him to fill up for me.
And he couldn't, he was working,
he was at practice all day or he had games
or he had away games and so, then I was
resentful for that.
And so, but throughout the whole time
that I was going through that,
he was always like, "tell me what you need."
and so, I went through this whole phase,
I was, like, "all right, well, I'm not dancing anymore.
I've to find something else to do with myself."
so I went to school for interior design.
"where do you wanna go? Tell me what you want to do.
What school do you want to go to?
Uh, tell me where we sign up."
I still think I was trying to fill this void
that I didn't really know what it was.
But every step of the way,
he was always, like,
"I know that you're only in this position
because you chose me over your career.
-So whatever I need to do..." -right, that's true.
"...To fill you back up, I'm doing it."
I tried my best to try to,
at least make Thursday night date night.
But he was always on, like,
high risk everything, like, everything I wanted to do...
-I couldn't do anything. -...He couldn't do it.
-Can't go horseback riding. -Horseback riding.
-That's too risky. -Not going skiing.
-Not going anything. -Can't go... Nothing active.
I can't get injured outside of the ring.
Um, when I did get injured, it was, like,
tore my quad, a couple of months later,
and my legs got better, she was like, "I'm out."
she went to puerto rico...
Oh, yeah.
She used all my miles, she's like,
-"I'm going first class." -I took all his miles.
-I was like, "I'm going." -she's like, "I'm going to puerto rico."
-she went for, like, five or six days. -A week.
-Yeah. -And it was cool with me,
because I'm like, I know I couldn't do anything,
and I know my wife loves to travel.
So those are the things that...
I was like, "whatever. If you're gonna have, you know..."
her cousin went with her.
I'm like, "go have fun."
during that,
that time,
you know, our first couple of years in la,
the night scene unfortunately was...
It's a real thing.
You know, we never really did,
uh, and,
another unfortunate part of that
is we argued and fought a lot.
We were together, but we weren't together.
"we know we got to pay these bills,
we know we got to parent this child,
but I really don't like you right now."
going through the motions.
"and we'd have moved all the way out here.
And you've got a job, I got a job,
like, we out here, we don't know nobody else.
Shoot, I can't... We can't even afford to get a divorce.
We don't even know how to...
I don't even know how to get a divorce."
oh, yeah.
-Right? -I remember thinking that.
-Yeah. -I remember being, like,
"what, man, I'm tight.
I ain't doing this no more."
yeah. You left me for two days.
Right, but what am I gonna do?
Right.
There.
For about two days, he went and stayed with a friend
and came back, like, "yeah, that didn't work out."
nah.
-I was, like-- -nah, that ain't gonna--
I was playing fantasia,
"if you don't want me, then don't talk to me."
-man, I got so sick of it. -He got so mad.
He was so mad with me.
Man, she fought dirty.
She fought with music.
I fought through music.
You know, she fought through music
and would play it loud.
You go in to shower...
Go and put on the song.
...I would literally have anthony hamilton on.
Maxwell, something.
I'd be in the shower,
and I would hear the music change to fantasia.
"you don't want me..."
I mean, I...
♪ if you don't want me then don't talk to me, honey ♪
turn it up tap, turn it up, girl.
She'd be loud.
And I had behaviors that
I didn't quite understand,
so he did something...
It was really not really about what he did,
it was about my response to things
I had grown up with and he would say that to me,
and I was like, "oh, never know, it's you."
um,
so we both dug deep into the spiritual world,
and, um,
you know, went to, like, family group,
to understand the dynamic of
what was going on with me,
what was going on with my family,
what can we do to change our dynamic,
and finally, you know, we got to a place
where we could start talking.
And it wasn't easy, like, he wanted to talk more to me
about what was going on with him,
and I could not receive it
because it was too terrifying
to hear what
he had been doing, what he had been thinking,
what, like, his struggles were,
it was really hard for me to handle.
Now I handle that,
but, uh...
I do. That's not nice.
I was teasing you.
Um...
But there were lots of conversations
about fear,
you know, getting through.
Things that hold you back.
Um...
And we just kept fighting
for each other.
Hmm.
I remember one time, sitting down and thinking,
"I can talk to my husband by text
better than I can to his face,
because I'm used to texting him everything.
And I never really talk to him."
um, so when he's at home,
it was hard for me to tell him a lot of things,
and as soon as he walked out the door,
I'd blow him up.
And he'd be like, "why didn't you tell me this stuff at home?"
I was just scared. Yeah.
And I couldn't, and it's taken me
a long time to be able to, like,
sit down and talk to you.
It's still some-- it's still one of those things.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
We kind of sat out in our backyard
-and I was, like... -We had to talk through some things.
..."dude, we have to talk."
-I'm like, she's like, "I don't think I like you." -mm-hmm.
And I was, like, "I think the same thing.
Like, I don't think we like each other."
yeah.
Um, making love,
we love you, there's, you know,
and she used to be like, "love isn't everything."
-and for me-- -and he'd get so mad.
I used to be so mad.
I'm, like, you know,
"love conquers all."
you know what I mean?
"like, it's biblical, we're married,
like, you know, love can fix everything."
but when we started speaking to each other more
and saying, "okay,
we don't like things together."
"we don't like..."
"we have different hobbies."
"we're two different people.
-And it freaks us out how different we are." -yeah.
So we forced ourselves to...
"okay, we're gonna start watching a few tv shows again."
-yeah. -"that we choose to watch.
-Whether you like it--" -"like, you cannot watch this without me."
-"you cannot watch it--" -"I can't watch it without you."
and so we made that decision.
We made sure that we're gonna have date night
at least once a week if we can.
And if it just so happens that we couldn't...
-Right. -...That's fine.
-It's a part of our team. -Gotta aim for it.
Right.
We had bought a house in farmdale,
and we got sucked out there. Okay?
And we were there for one year,
and it was getting bad.
It was starting to get bad,
because we were away from everybody,
all our new friends we had made in la,
nobody would come visit us, because it was so far.
And I didn't wanna be there.
But I didn't wanna tell chance 'cause, you know, he didn't--
did everything he could to buy us this house.
And I was like, "oh, god, how do I tell him
that I don't want to be here?"
and when he came to me and said,
"I need to talk to you about something."
he said, "I don't wanna live up here."
and I was like, "me either.
Oh, my god, babe." I was like, "I didn't want to tell you."
we instantly became on the same page.
And from that moment,
it was like we started to see each other more.
Our relationship just started getting stronger
and stronger.
I remember too around that same time,
this was like 2010.
-Mm-hmm. -Where I was able to...
I always shied away from the conversations
about her mom
because she had, uh, made a comment
in some of the arguments, that I had abandoned her
when she needed me most.
So there's a part of me that would...
I would get pissed
just at the idea, because I'm like,
"I moved across the country with you twice
in pursuit of your dream.
I'm doing something that terrifies me every day,
every day.
And I got a three year old, right?
That I'm responsible for
out here in this jungle.
Um, otherwise known as los angeles."
right?
So...
The thought of her saying it,
I just felt like... [grunts]
like...
So, for years, I would-- I would just shy away
from the conversation. Any time she would
bring up her mom, I would just
agree and walk away or keep my mouth shut.
'cause I just felt like she was
really convinced that I had done something
or I wasn't there for her, so...
Around the same time as she was
talking about it, I was just like,
"god, you gotta get me words,
'cause
I miss my mother-in-law.
She was special to me.
Why, she was...
And I can't tell my wife
that I'm uncomfortable with certain subjects,
and I want to be able to talk to her about this."
and once I was able to express that
and say, "hey,
uh, that is how I feel about this."
and we started to have
just a little bit of a conversation.
Just opening the door just a little bit.
So a little bit of air can come in.
That's when I remember,
if I had to put a timeframe on it,
that things started to get back
on track.
And then, every year,
I could say a little bit more,
and then a year later, I could say,
"hey..."
and I did that for myself
but also for her, because I knew that
she still felt a certain kind of way,
uh, in regards to it,
but that is when I remember,
you know...
Things started getting better.
Things started to get better and change.
If I can go back...
But we can't.
...I wouldn't let her walk away from dance.
But...
He was going to work every day,
and I was on a six-month mat leave,
with no friends, no one to talk to,
nothing to do during the day,
literally just sitting there with this baby,
waiting for him to come home.
Like, that was my life.
I would get upset at him
because, like, he kind of found friends
and I was still at home with the baby,
and I'm just, like,
"I just want you to stay home."
and he's like, "I want you to go out
and do something. Like, I want you to find friends, but..."
I think, saying, "go, find friends," is very easy.
It's actually hard
when you don't have, like, some place to start.
That was some tough feedback there
she had to give me.
I was now having a bustling career,
I was meeting colleagues,
and she was struggling with this issue,
she raised it up.
So I was like, "cool, let me see what I can do
to fix this up."
I said I wanted to host--
and by this time, I'm doing parties anyway,
but I was, like, "I wanna host a plus one party
at our apartment,
where everyone, the people that I know,
bring a plus one that I don't'.
So that she has a choice of people
to potentially be friends.
You ain't got to be friends with my friends
but hopefully, somebody in this room,
you'll actually like,
and can, like, build a sisterhood with.
And then it started happening
and you started to get your own friends
and ended up working on the same floor, maybe--
-a few feet from each other. -A few feet away from each other.
So then it became like a whole office thing.
A lot of... [chuckling]
and I was-- that became really cool.
If I can go back...
But we can't.
...I wouldn't let her walk away from dance.
Right.
That's something that I personally,
uh...
It bothers me.
But it bothers him now, but at that time,
one of the reasons I made the decision I made,
-is because we were struggling. -That was stupid.
Given where we are right now in our relationship,
and this amazing life we've created
with our two wonderful children,
and where I was at that time,
and all the things going on in our life
at that time, I would make the same decision
every single time.
I wouldn't.
-I wouldn't. -But that's hindsight.
I should've been more understanding,
of...
Of her,
and what she was doing.
I was selfish,
and that's the part I wish I could take back.
Because,
in the grand scheme of it all,
she didn't have to be at all the games,
she didn't have to be at the first game,
you know.
I knew she supported me,
and I wish I could've been
mature enough,
to show that same type of support.
I think after my mom passed away,
I had, for a long time, a lot of resentment.
Right?
But I wasn't thinking about
him.
I was thinking about myself.
Right? I wasn't thinking about
what he was going through,
um, with his job, and with me.
And having to be home with a little girl by yourself,
'cause I'm gone for months at a time
in north carolina, taking care of my mom.
Uh...
But I had to get to a place where
I really thought that thing through.
And I was, like, "oh, wait.
I can't even imagine what he was going through too.
You know, I didn't stop to think about it."
uh, and then as we just matured
and got older, we just...
I started to really see him, you know.
It wasn't just like, "oh, this is my husband."
'cause I know this is this man
who is changing, just like me as a woman.
Every day we're growing, every day we're changing.
And I started to see him change.
I started to see him soften.
Uh, 'cause for a very long time,
chance was very hard, he was very angry.
And I always, kind of, was, you know,
the thing that I thought made him better,
'cause I used to always say,
"I can't make you happy.
Like, I don't make you happy. Why are we together?
-Why are we together?" -hmm.
I used to-- it used to always be about me,
thinking I had to be the one that did that,
and then when I started realizing,
"no, he got to process his own thing.
And I got to process my own thing.
I got to stop trying to make him happy
and make myself happy first, right?"
I have a lot of respect for black men.
And I want the same respect back.
And so, you know, there are lots of little things
that started to be better.
You know, like, his timings was better,
his, uh, listening improved.
Um...
I didn't try to fix it so much.
Yeah, he also was a little less about him.
I mean, that's really the only way I can say it, you know.
Um...
I mean, you know, he's also in the business
where it is about him.
So that's a trained behavior that, you know,
you have to remember when you come home,
that it's about us here.
Out there, it can be about you,
and those people who work for you,
work with you, but here, we work together.
Marriage has taught me
respect.
Respect for someone else,
just as much as I respect myself.
As a professional athlete,
and someone who's catered to,
that was my reality.
I literally--
people would do whatever for me.
And you're getting into a relationship,
you can't be a professional athlete
in a relationship.
That doesn't work.
I learned to leave my cleats
at the door,
opposed to bringing that mentality
in the household
and treating her
like she's supposed to,
you know--
-acquiesce. -Acquiesce to, you know, the--
that doesn't work in a relationship.
She far too valuable to my life
and to our household,
and I learned that early on, even before we had kids,
that inside the home, I was a husband,
and a partner, and an equal.
Out there, I was this person
who had accomplished these great things
that people revered and admired.
But I never brought that in,
inside to our relationship.
I thought that I had to put on a certain armor
to survive out here.
Right? So, that was...
And I thought that if anybody...
If you think of anybody understands it,
it's your life partner.
That they see you like,
"it's not that he doesn't understand,
he's in his armor, he's being the man
that I need him to be,"
or, "she's being the woman that I need her to be
for us to survive."
uh, and when you don't...
When you hear otherwise,
it can be hurtful.
It could be true that you're prioritizing wrong.
And I had to come to terms with that.
Okay, yeah, we need survival out here,
but when you have the opportunity to say,
"hey, how you doing?
Don't shy away from the conversation
and use the excuse that
you're not familiar with death."
right? And I would do that.
I had to come to grips with that,
that I'm like, "okay, I can hide in my work.
And I don't have-- this is, man, this is scary for me."
because you've never been
or you're not accustomed to saying,
"maybe you're scared, but, like, you heard.
And you need to-- she's never seen that side of you.
And this ain't about being cool
sexy or, you know,
this, right now, she needs you to
show her something you've never shown her."
and that's a lot.
In being married, I had also realized
marriage is not a solo dance,
like, you literally have to consider your family.
And, like, obviously now our family has extended
to our son, but at that point,
it was just me and you, and I'm like,
"I uprooted my life and I moved,
and I went to graduate school in indiana,
but I didn't have anyone to consider then,
'cause I was by myself.
How can I take that away from him,
when he now wants to move
to do something that's gonna fulfill him?"
um, and, you know,
in planning to be married for a long time,
I'm like, there's... "we have to make the choice
for each other, so at some point,
like, I wanna do something
and you'll have to make that choice for me,
and I hope that you'll think back
and say, "she made the choice for me.
Let me make the choice for her."
to me, it's give and take.
Like, I can't sit here and say,
"I wanna spend my life with you,
but it's like, this is gonna make you happy
but it's not gonna make me happy,
so I'm not gonna do it."
it's like, I find joy in you being happy.
So you were thriving, you were doing so well.
I was happy for you, but I was still--
I was still unhappy in my own...
In what was going on for me,
but that didn't take away... I'm like,
I wasn't like, "oh, he needs to quit.
Let's go back."
like, I was-- I did say he needs to quit,
-let's go back, but... -Yes, you did.
But I changed my tune, like...
Obviously I didn't push that hard
'cause we didn't go back,
so, I mean, I just...
To me, marriage is finding happiness in your partner's happiness,
even if it's not perfect for you
as a solo individual.
I was enthralled and so proud
and enamored by this goddess on stage
in front of thousands of people.
And just one of the best dancers I've ever seen.
And...
That part is easy, when I didn't have anything to do,
of course, I was there.
But when I did have something to do,
it took precedent over what she had to to.
And that, I don't like.
That's the part I wish I can go back and undo.
Me being supportive of anything else
she's ever wanted to do,
that's easy.
That's not hard.
What would've been hard was me being understanding
and allowing her to continue her dream
whether she chose to or not.
I just, man...
But it wasn't his decision,
he didn't make the decision for me. I made the decision.
Although I do appreciate you saying that.
It's true. I think about it all the time.
Hmm.
All the time, and, uh,
it's... I'm a fixer.
Right? I'm a problem solver and I'm a fixer,
not only for our family but every--
that's what I do.
And I can't fix that.
And it bothers me.
I'll always be indebted to her
for the sacrifice she made for us,
and my career and our family.
That's love.
That's relationship.
A lot of people think when you reach a certain age,
that you're not gonna get married,
you're not gonna find romance,
you're not gonna have...
And I'm a witness,
okay, to the universe.
And I was 61, and you were--
I was 62, yeah.
Even our sex life was like, kids.
Okay?
You don't have butterflies when you're married for a long time,
but it's just... It's different
-they're different butterflies. -It's different.
-They're not real butterflies. -Life's different.
-In fact. They-- -they're like moths.
I learned to do the husband thing
-when I come back-- -what does that mean?
-"the husband thing"? -It's...
If you learn to serve, you're not gonna be disappointed,
if you believe that's in the job description.
I hope that all the couples can talk about the stuff we talk about.
-We talk about everything. -Everything.
Like, I'll be like, "hey, man,
you gotta give me a heads up."