He was very worried,
but I love that he didn't hide it.
Because I... At that part, I don't...
-[laughs] -that's one thing I love
about our relationship. There's the truth every...
Even if it sucks, like, "really,
you're gonna say that?" but at least I get the truth
every single time.
And, uh... But during that moment,
I was really afraid, um...
-Yeah. -But you were there.
-He didn't... -I was scared.
See, now you're making me tearing up.
If you can have a relationship like that
where you can talk about the things
that you know
may make your partner uncomfortable,
then now you're really headed in the right direction.
Yeah. And we have those all the time.
-That's the key. -This is a space I can say,
you know, ten years ago, you know what I'm saying?
Like, I wasn't really in this space.
-You know what I'm saying? -No, you weren't.
I wouldn't have been able to, um...
I wouldn't have been able to honor this space properly.
-Right. -You know what I'm saying?
So there had to be... There had to be a lot.
There had to be a lot of growing.
[theme music playing]
[alphonso] in the beginning,
I had a fear of abandonment.
And when she wasn't around
or she didn't tell me
how much she cared for me or anything,
I was like, "oh, she don't really care."
oh, boy. It's... Oh, boy.
Um, and one of the two arguments that we had
I thought, "oh, it's gonna end in divorce."
because his parents were married
for his entire life,
when he got married the first time,
he never thought that he never get divorced.
That was the furthest thing
from anything that he desired.
And when the marriage ended in divorced,
it left him feeling shaken about
whether our marriage could last forever.
And it created this kind of abandonment issues like,
"I don't want my wife to leave."
um, my dad was a pimp turned preacher.
-[laughs] so... -[indistinct]
...He was in the pimp stage when he was with my mom.
[laughs] don't say it like that.
Even though that they were married,
I never really saw them totally together
and interacting.
I think tank's perception to that
was totally opposite.
-Yeah. My... -Completely opposite.
-Which is weird,
because I'm the one that's always wanted
to be married in a foundation and all that from the jump.
But he's the one who was, like, so hesitant.
-But he comes from... -I come from... Yeah.
...Married parents. They're still together.
Still together. The fear which I spoke
about before came from the fact that
I had a failed marriage. You know what I mean?
And then failed relationships.
And now I have these kids
and I'm not married.
But I come from... I come from...
-A married family. -...Structure and stability.
I come from commitment.
I come from... You know what I mean?
Sacrifice. That's where I come from.
And here I am,
the complete opposite. You know what I mean?
And so, that's where a lot of that fear came from,
um, is because I just didn't feel like
I was living up to how I was raised
and what I was taught.
I mean, early in our relationship,
we had a, uh... Not necessarily a problem,
but it was certainly, uh, a differing of opinion
as it related to religion.
Right? She grew up in a church.
I did not, right?
Uh, I am a spiritual man, completely.
But, uh, there's certain ways of the bible
that I don't agree with
and I was very vocal about that.
Yeah. When we started, it was...
It was something that, kind of, you know...
Sure, I mean her... The guy that married us
didn't want to marry us
until I came to counseling for church.
Like listen, god wouldn't want me
to find him like that. That's sort of crazy
for you to say that. So he and I had a rift.
-Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. -[laughs]
and we got past that and he ended up marrying us, too.
-We... -[woman] did he [indistinct]
-no. -No.
He stood his ground.
And you know what? At the end of the day,
what I came to respect about rodney
was that he was not one
and still is not one to conform.
He gave me a different viewpoint, right?
He can still, you know, honor and respect
that there is a spiritual being
and he be connected to that
and still not diminish who I was.
-Not at all. -We never ever considered...
-Divorce. -Well, yeah, when we did...
Well, when... And when we first got married.
You know, I should say I consider divorce,
maybe he say... [laughs]
-maybe in his mind... -Well, I didn't.
...That they were saying, "yeah, he didn't."
...Because I felt like... When she talked
about divorce is where you're going.
Because wherever you're going, I'm going.
[laughs] yeah. We were in this
this early phase of our marriage, um,
literally before the third child was born.
Mmm-hmm. Um, we have this girl...
Uh, it was a couple of young girls
from the church that used to always be around.
And during this phase,
I totally remember
because I had a conversation with my pastor about
how I didn't really like him when I was pregnant.
Like there was this... I don't know.
It was just this thing, like, I didn't like him
like I was always, like, picking him apart
and, you know, he would say something,
and I would get so annoyed. And it was just like
this thing, I don't know, I went through.
And, um, when he found out that I was...
-Hormonal. -Yeah. Hormones and just...
Yeah, it definitely was.
But, um... And I remember my pastor
when he found that I was pregnant with the third child,
-he was, like, you know... -Again?
"...Stop." he was like, "your marriage
is not gonna be able to take that.
That's too much, too soon."
when we first got together, it was intense.
We saw each other every day, you know.
We weren't living together or anything like that,
but we were together. We were...
We did everything together. Even our friends
made comments about it.
And after we were married for a little while
and finished hoochie-cooting, you know, then I'm like,
"okay. Now it's time for me to go back
to, like, my girlfriends and go into brunch."
and that kind of thing." so we had been married
probably about six months,
came home, and we had a little dog
and he was on 10,
and insistent that we get rid of the dog,
because he opened the dog... Door,
and the dog jetted out,
and therefore the dog didn't wanna be here.
-And he was laughing at me. -And he was laughing.
Yeah, that was the other thing.
-The dog... -"and the dog laughed at me.
I called him, and he turned, and he laughed at me."
-he did. -And he was on 10.
And I'm like, "we're not gonna get rid of the kid's dog."
so, I took a deep breath, and I just sat,
and I said, "what is going on here?
What is this really about?"
because this is not about the dog.
The dog got some issues."
so, I sat back and I said...
Uh, he was and, stomping.
And I said, "this is the first time
since we've been together
that I've actually been gone away
with other people.
Like, that was the first time.
So, I was like, "oh, so the dog
is a metaphor for me? I don't wanna be here.
Oh. Oh.
But I couldn't say that in that moment,
because it was heated
and it was really about the dog.
So, I have to sit here and figure out
how to present that to him,
that he could hear it and not see it as patronizing.
In this early phase
of or marriage
literally before the third child was born.
-Mmm-hmm. -Um, we have this girl
who was always swarming around
who they felt was,
you know, a cute childhood crush.
You know, she would say sweet things to him
and always stroking his ego.
-Mmm-hmm. -And all of the stuff.
And so, um, they had some
inappropriate conversations
and, um... That I ended up finding out about.
-Mmm-hmm. -Now mind you,
remember I'm from the hood, right?
So, I wasn't in the church that long, right? So...
So she ready to cut, fight, shoot.
I was... Everything.
And it was just, for me...
And I don't know why.
Uh, you know, it was just a deal breaker.
It was just like,
"no. I'm not gonna compete emotionally."
like I know it wasn't physical
and people say that all the time.
"it wasn't a physical thing."
it still felt the same.
-Mmm-hmm. -I couldn't differentiate
the emotion from the physical.
All I knew is that the feeling of betrayal.
-The feeling of, you know... -Was the same.
...Was the... It just felt the same.
It was the same sick feeling
that you entertain somebody else
outside of our relationship.
That to me registered the same way.
Temptation is everywhere. It was coming from everywhere.
Right? I didn't get any less sexier.
I'm sure that's not how you say that.
Pretty sure it's less sexy, but proceed.
We broke up, then we had a baby.
Then we co-parented.
-For a long time. -Yes. We co-parented
for about five and a half...
About five and a half, six years...
-Yeah. -...I wanna say.
Mmm-hmm. Woke up one day and I was like,
"I think I'm in love with her again."
I don't think you ever stopped.
Yeah. See that's...
But I did always know if we ever got back together,
it was for forever. It wasn't gonna be,
"oh, let's date and see if we can work it out."
no, we had been through all the stuff.
We're gonna make it or we're not.
Like, "what are we doing?
I was apprehensive.
I think I was scare... More scared than anything,
because I truly felt like she was the one.
And I really didn't wanna mess it up.
And that was my whole reservation.
I was like, "I just need some time.
I just need..." you know what I mean?
"I need... I... I'll know what I know.
You know what I mean? And, you know,
and being able to look at it in the hindsight,
which is always 20/20, I could see where...
I was just scared. I was just, like,
scared to mess it up.
You know what I mean? And not knowing
if I was in a place to where I wouldn't.
I remember I had a conversation with her
and I said, "look, it's a challenge every day,
uh, to fight off temptation."
and it bothered her when I told her that.
It did. When he first told me, I was like, "what?
What do you mean? We... You're what...
What do you mean it's hard for you to be faithful
or it's tempting for you to any of those things
that you're talking about?" I was a little put off by it.
But because we communicate so well,
then we, kind of, had a conversation
about what that... What it meant.
I told her, "look, I said,
"just because we're in a relationship, that...
And married,
that doesn't eradicate temptation."
or it doesn't it mean that I'm blind. [laughs]
right? Like, people are under the assumption
that once you get married,
they give you a pill,
and you are no longer attracted to anyone else.
Which is inaccurate on both sides.
For us, as much as it is for them.
It doesn't work like that.
And I remember I had a conversation with my dad
and I said...
And this is prior to us getting married.
I said, "dad, well, how do you...
How do you stay faithful? How do you...
How do you do that?"
and he said, "it's not about her.
It's not about you.
It's about your relationship with god.
There's forgiveness, but at the end of the day,
when it's all said and done,
you're going to have to answer
to whatever you did good and bad.
And if that's a question,
you wanna have to answer
on judgment day,
then go right ahead."
-and that... -Mmm-hmm.
...Scared the hell out of me.
You have to hold yourself
-accountable, right? -Mmm-hmm.
-To something. -Mmm-hmm.
And I think that, um,
we have a level of integrity
when you wanna hold...
Have a level of responsibility to yourself,
but something higher than that.
-Sure. -Um, and I think
that that keeps you grounded.
Allows you to make really good decisions.
Generally speaking, most people
who practice religion are...
-Grew up in... Mmm-hmm. -...Grandfathered into that.
-Mmm-hmm. -Your parents
and their parents, it's a long line of religion.
This is not my experience at all.
So, it's tough.
And I study theology in college, right?
So I read the bible three times.
It's, uh...
At times to me.
Especially when you're dealing in a... In a space where,
uh, things have to make sense, right?
The bible isn't always there, right?
But it's, uh, a credit to this is...
Yesterday, she was able to say, "you know what?
I'm not mad at that. Yeah, that does kind of
made sense for me too, right?"
and instead of me being upset with him
that he was not conforming
to what I grew up in,
it was an opportunity for me to, kind of,
rethink and reflect on, "why do I think that?
Is that really true?"
um, just because the bible says it so, you know,
is that really practical for what we're dealing with
-in these days and time? So... -Mmm-hmm.
...Um, it was really an opportunity for us
to really talk about it.
And I'm just like, "there's nothing you can say,
there's nothing you can do, but I'm tired.
And so if whatever you gotta say,
say it quick because it's 2:00, I'm going to bed.
And in the morning, I'm filing for divorce.
End of discussion."
so he says, um...
So as I'm sitting there, my eyes are closed,
I'm kind of just listening to him
go on, and on, and on,
and, um,
it was just a thought in my spirit.
I just literally... It was...
It was calm and it was sweet,
but it was just like, you know,
you need to hear your vows.
Like, your wedding vows.
And I laughed, I chuckled,
because he was screaming,
"what did I do? What did I do?"
you know? [laughs]
and I'm thinking... [sighs]
"well, that's not gonna happen."
you know what I'm saying? So, I just sat there
and I, kind of, smiled, and, you know,
-then he runs over to... -Mmm-hmm.
...His desk that was, like, sitting behind us,
and started snatching out drawers
and papers are flying everywhere,
and I'm thinking, "he is... He's lost it."
I mean, I get it, but you...
This is different, okay?
So, he pulls out this little book.
-Mmm-hmm. -Which is their... The, um...
As a minister, he was a young minister,
so it was his minister handbook.
And he drops down in front of me
and he starts reading the vows.
And I just burst out in tears.
And I knew it was as if literally my first...
At that particular time, like,
literal, like, sign from heaven
that this was supposed to be,
because there's no way in the world
that he could have come up with...
Like, there's no way.
And he reads all of the vows,
I only hear the first line of it,
and I'm bawling, crying.
And then I say, "okay.
You know, we'll do it.
This is your one do-over."
and at that point,
there was commitment,
-a renewed... -Mmm-hmm.
...Commitment.
A renewal of minds
to say, "okay.
We're never gonna come to this place again
-and divorce..." -right. Right.
"...Is not ever on the table again.
We'll figure it out.
And if we make it through this,
which I believe that we would
because the commitment was there."
-mmm-hmm. -"we got this."
it had changed the dynamic of...
-Mmm-hmm. -...Like the trust
in our relationship too, because then I knew
that any temptation
in that type of way wasn't even about me anymore,
so like,
"oh, he's not trying to not upset me,
-he's trying to..." -it's bigger than that.
It's bigger than me.
It... Him being faithful
and being a good man is bigger than me.
It's rooted in my faith, my belief,
my relationship with god.
And I explained to her, "look,
it's a challenge every day, but it's a challenge
I'm willing to do.
Just like anything in life worth having
and worth seeing be successful,
I'm willing to step up to do that."
temptation is everywhere,
it was coming from everywhere, right?
I didn't get any less sexier.
I'm sure that's not how you say that.
-But... -I'm pretty sure
it's less sexy, but proceed.
-Okay. -[laughs]
this is my marriage and, uh,
this is what I signed up for forever, right?
So I'm like... I'm like,
"I'm gonna striking out here,
like is it...
It's got to be me." right?
[laughter]
it's me, you know what I mean?
And so, that's when the fear
sets in of,
"I might not...
I might just not be good at this."
so, I'm a muslim, uh, practicing muslim.
Uh, she is not.
Um, she didn't consider herself
very religious, but very, uh, a spiritual person.
And I told her
that my religion meant a lot to me.
And I remember her telling me
that her friends were worried.
-They would... -I mean...
...They would call her
and be worried.
"are you gonna have to cover yourself up?
Are you gonna have to walk behind..."
just all the stereotypical things
that we hear in america
of what their religion is.
I was like, "first of all,
if you think I would ever date someone
who would make me cover myself up
and walk behind him, then you don't know me."
but it was also very important for me
to know exactly what that was or what I was...
-Mmm-hmm. -...Marrying, uh,
as far as his religion was concerned.
And so, I called his mom on the phone one day.
And I was like, "I want you teach me everything
I need to know about what this is,
so I can be respectful of it,
so I can, uh, be a part
of whatever I am can be a part of."
and she explained to me how they got there,
what it meant.
And really, it was like,
"oh, well, we feel the same way,
-like, we have the..." -mmm-hmm.
"...Same core values
and the same moral compass."
it's actually, uh, amazing religion
and I'm so glad that our boys
get to experience it.
Well, it...
Our... It's... For number one, it's a religion of peace.
And I was... I'm very tuned into that
and I wanted her to know in our relationship,
that's my responsibility,
uh, one of love, care, nurture,
and respect, and discipline.
Even we were... When we were broken up,
when we were separated and not together,
I still knew that I wanted to be with him.
So it wasn't like it was a question.
With him, I felt like he was defining himself,
figuring out where he wanna be,
who he wanna be with, and that whole thing.
And I was just like...
And I think he finally said that to me,
because you were just like, you know,
"I've just been trying to find my way."
but for me, I always knew
that it was the situation in a sense, so...
And I just got out of a, what, five-year relationship.
-Yeah. -So, I was...
I... In my mind,
I thought I was in a relationship
that was probably gonna work out,
you know, a different kind of way
and then it didn't.
You know what I mean? So, I'm like...
I'm like, "I'm gonna striking out here.
Like is it, it's got to be me, right?"
[laughter]
it's me, you know what I mean?
And so, that's when the fear
sets in of I might not...
I might just not be good at this.
Me believing that I was up for the task
was more of me putting pressure on myself
to be up for the task.
And it was really about taking the leap,
you know what I mean?
And, you know...
And being ready to climb
whatever hill came after that.
Even in two years of marriage,
that's still a process.
The arguments that we've had have,
from my perspective,
been more about us,
what's happening internally with external pressures
and not recognizing that we're stressed
about holding things together until...
Not recognizing that
until then it comes out in,
"you left the toothpaste top off,
you don't love me.
We need to figure..." you know?
And it's like...
And the thing that helped me was to realize
that she's never personally
doing something to hurt me.
When... Even, you know, like,
the things that have happened,
if I say to myself,
"okay. Does... Is erica really personally
trying to hurt you
or is this how you think about it?"
a hundred percent of it is never,
-"I wanna hurt you." -yeah.
That it is, "you need to hear my heart,
that you did something that your impact
is different from your intent."
and I know your intent was not to hurt me,
but the impact was that it did
and I need to not say it in the moment
because if I do, it's not gonna come out like that.
So let me take a couple of minutes
and get myself together, so I can just come back
and say, "I didn't like that."
it was a little bit more challenging
when we had children,
because even though, I'm half mexican,
so I grew up in a very catholic family.
Like, my grandmother is very catholic.
We went to church on christmas day and easter,
and all those kind of things.
And when you have kids, as you know,
you want them to grow up in like you did
and celebrate all the amazing things
that made your childhood so great.
The first year, it wasn't a big deal,
because our son was really young
and my family out in riverside,
we would just to go
do christmas eve at their house,
-which originally... -When they do christmas eve,
-they do christmas eve. -Yeah. We sing, we drink...
-It's... -...We open one gift,
-everybody opens one gift... -It's a... It's a production.
It's fun. It's like the one time
-everybody gets off -...The first year, I'm...
...So everybody could still be together.
...I'm like...
Well, before we went, he's like,
"I'm not singing no songs,
-I'm not opening no presents." -I'm...
I'm straight military on them.
I was like, "okay, fine. You don't have to."
-now... -I'm an idiot.
...When we got there,
we're all singing out songs,
and opening gifts,
and playing all these games,
he was like,
-"I wanna do the... -I was like,
"I don't get to sing a song?"
"I wanna do the 12 days of christmas, please."
and we're like, "oh, no, no, you don't wanna partake.
You don't get a day of christmas."
so then he started to loosen up
about it a little bit and see that from my family,
it wasn't really a religious thing as much.
But when our kids got older, and therefore,
I wanted to celebrate those things with them
or we wanna...
So I think our son was like, two,
I was, like, two and a half
going on three, and I was like, "okay,
so it's time to talk about the christmas tree."
she said, "I want a christmas tree." I'm like, "no."
I want a christmas tree and he was like, "nope."
I was like, "listen, we're not...
We... It has to be where I respect you
and what you believe and you have to offer
-the same respect to me." -yeah.
I'm not telling you
that we're gonna go
celebrate jesus christ.
I'm not doing any of that.
I'm asking you to get a christmas tree,
so our son can decorate the christmas tree
and we can celebrate how we...
How I celebrate what that is.
-Sounds good. No. -The man, "no."
-[laughter] -I was like,
"oh, this is... This is gonna be a problem."
-I was like, "yeah, yeah, I get it." -and it's the first time we...
It's the first time we had,
like, a situation when it came to our religion.
I'm like, "yeah, I feel you, sister.
Yeah, yeah, you wanna do that, but no."
-yeah. -It was... It was... It was bad.
She let me know, "listen,
I'm not going through another divorce.
I'm not... I'm not desperate,
but it's not... I'm not here to get a divorce,
so if problems, you know, arise,
we can work it out, you know,
uh, quit using that divorce word."
[man speaking]
you wanna go there?
-A lot. -[laughter]
you know what? Man, um,
a lot of... A lot of my mishaps
and poor decision-making
had a lot to do with me being an entertainer.
Um, I'll leave with
the entertainer industry
doesn't promote healthy.
You know what I mean?
It doesn't... It doesn't promote prosperity
in the things that we grew up in,
it doesn't promote that.
Um, and I've... I, all of a sudden,
become this artist that's like the sex symbol,
and I'm straight from church,
[clears throat] and now, I have this different...
This different access and this different notoriety,
like, that will messed you up.
You know what I mean? As a kid, you know,
coming from the dmv and just...
And just trying to sing,
and used to just being a background singer
for ginuwine, and, you know,
used to playing backup, and now,
they're screaming your name.
And you're like, "I wonder why they're screaming my name.
And... Well, let's see."
um, and so you start to take advantage
of that access.
And before you know it...
Before you know it, it's not even...
It's not even a thought
of if you should partake,
it just become second nature.
And so
you have to go through a process
of killing those bad habits.
You know what I mean? Which have...
Which are deeply embedded and rooted
into everything...
Not just you, but everything that surrounds you.
Getting to this point with her was like,
you know, it was... It was hard.
You know what I mean? But it was, uh...
It was... It was absolutely worth it.
My sister is married and her husband isn't muslim.
And I remember seeing pictures of...
And I'm like, "oh, so you got a christmas tree
-in the house, huh? Jamela, I'm..." -come on, see.
I'm like, "jamela, uh, sister,
you got a christmas tree in your house, huh?"
and she is like, "boy, nobody got no time for all of that."
like, she just... I had a conversation with her
and she had... She really opened me up to look,
uh, you're just not in the marriage yourself, right?
You have to... There has to be give and take.
You guys have to be able to co-exist
and enjoy things that one another like to do.
And by the next year, actually,
our son had been old enough to like during ramadan...
-Mmm-hmm. -...Partake in that with him.
-And which is, of course... -Which is...
...I want him to do. So ramadan, the month...
Why am I explaining it? You can explain it.
-That's... You're in tuned, you're locked in. -Yes.
Um, ramadan in the, uh, the islamic religion,
muslim religion is our holy month
where we fast for 30 days.
-She was gracious... -I did.
...Enough to fast with me.
Be... It's just about understanding.
Yeah. Number one, understand
the other person, right?
I'm like, "I ain't never had no christmas tree.
I ain't getting no christmas tree."
right? Like, that was my mentality.
That's how I grew up.
-But she was like, "but... -I'm a... But I'm fasting?
...We always... Right, that was the thing.
-She was like... -And our son, who's also my son,
who's also half of me,
is participating in what you participate in.
-Mmm-hmm. -So there's no way you're gonna tell me
that he's not gonna participate
in what I participate in.
So by the second year,
I had a little bit of more,
like, ground to stand on where I would say...
But it wasn't even that, it was just... I was more...
-And he had involved. Yes. -...Open in...
...And you have to evolve in your marriage.
She let me know, "listen,
I'm not going through another divorce.
I'm not... I'm not desperate
but it's not... I'm not here to get a divorce.
So if problems, you know, arise, we can work it out,
you know, uh, quit using that divorce word.
You know, quit using it." so now,
we don't even say it, you know.
Uh, we... And I'm gonna tell you, too.
In the 10 years, I don't think we've ever slept apart.
-Uh-uh. -I think you tried to sleep and...
-Oh, yeah. -...I went out there,
I was like, "well, uh, scoot over."
I tried to sleep on the couch.
-Scoot... Well, I'm... -Out here on the couch.
You better scoot over.
No, he came and laid a pallet on the floor...
-Yeah. -...Next to the couch.
-Yeah. -And I was like, "okay.
Old man, let's go get in the bed,
because you're gonna wake up talking about your hip."
during that moment, I was really afraid, um...
-Yeah. -...But you were there.
-He didn't get scared. -I was scared.
See, now you're making me tear up.
-Oh. -[laughter]
I had, uh, a surgery, uh, scare
with fibroids because, you know,
that happens to a lot of us black women.
And, uh, and what's funny is...
Not funny, but I was more concerned
with where they put the tube in my throat, because...
-Yeah. -...I'm a... I'm a singer.
I said, "honey, make sure
they don't put that in my throat,"
as I'm fading away on anesthesia, [laughs]
and the doctor was, like, "we may have to do it."
I think he probably told him, "don't tell her the truth."
-yeah, they did. -"don't tell her.
Because she won't go and get the help,"
because it was... When he met me,
I was full of energy and all this...
You know, and he's seen me
change into this different, uh, person.
So the challenge was,
"gosh, do I have the operation
to get this thing, uh, removed,
so that I... This fibroid removed,
so I can have myself back?"
and, uh, we went through that.
I'd never seen him so afraid.
Like, that was the first time I've ever seen ron just...
I saw you just freaked out.
What I do remember is... That second argument,
what I do remember is that was in 2013,
and his father was in the hospital...
-Oh, that's right. -...And my mother was in the hospital.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Both of them were in the hospital
and both of us afraid.
My mother had been diagnosed with cancer,
his father was approaching 80 and had health issues,
-and we were both scared. -Mmm-hmm.
And, uh, it was... It was... It had to be something stupid,
because we can't even remember what it was.
Yeah. Can't remember it.
But we both were just like,
-[makes sound] -yeah.
And then I was like, "okay.
I need to get in the car and drive,"
-which triggered abandonment. -Mmm-hmm.
You cannot leave, which triggered control.
-I can do what I wanna do. -[chuckles]
[chuckles] so, that was like...
-Yeah. -[makes sound]
thank god, we're not physical people, you know.
But we both, you know, have an energy that's,
like, "no."
um, but we were... It... And it was...
And I don't even know how it stopped,
but somehow, we've realized,
like, we're both insane in this moment.
Yeah. And it ended with us both sitting down,
not even touching or embracing each other,
but we both were just crying.
And I was just like,
"our parents' mortality is in front of us."
and we have never talked about how scary that is.
Right.
I got diagnosed
with crohn's disease in April 1st,
-April fools' day, 1997... -Mmm-hmm.
...So I would have a lot of stomach pains
and just couldn't eat. I would have a desire to eat.
Um, I would want to eat, but when I would start to eat,
then I would have a lot of pain.
Um, so I was going to the doctor,
they just couldn't figure it out.
"maybe you have an ulcer, maybe you have this,
maybe you have that." it was challenging,
I think, to wanna open up
with someone that you're intimate with,
someone that you knew, um,
to, um, to say that I have an autoimmune disease
that's not curable,
and these are the things that happened.
Um, and I know that rodney, at one point,
has shared with me, that he had dated someone
who had had some medical issues
and how it was kind of disparaging for him,
and he really didn't like it, and so...
-I couldn't take it. -...That further suppressed
my desire and willingness to wanna share, right?
Because with crohn's disease, autoimmune,
it's not... There's no cure for it.
So, I had no idea at that point where we were going,
where our relationship was going,
what the disease process was doing to my body.
Um, and so, I...
That was pretty difficult.
-Um... -It was. It was, I remember.
That part, I mentioned earlier,
had to become more of an adult in a way, right?
That part, and the, uh, previous relationship,
I didn't handle it.
Honestly, I didn't.
But when I met her, right?
I wanted to be able to take in
all that came to me from this woman, right?
Because, uh, I felt like I could absorb it all,
because of who she was, and the way that she was...
Um, just the greatness of it all.
It was all... Just like,
I have to be a part of whatever this is, right?
But I remember going to the doctor, and in there,
and, you know, I don't wanna stay,
and, you know, we got kids, and it's just tough, it's...
The weight is heavy, um,
but I stood strong, you know.
And I ain't looking for no award or nothing,
because she was... Certainly, she was going through it,
but I was making myself available to it completely.
I think it was just really kind of feeling helpless
that I, you know...
Even like if I could and I had the background,
I would have just went in and did it myself but,
you know, I'm in the waiting room...
And actually, I didn't...
I didn't really stay in there.
I think I circled that hospital about 30 times...
-He's a walker. -...Before coming in...
-What a walker. -...Because I had to get it off my brain,
and I was freaking out.
But I had to be strong for her,
even when she was, you know, coming to and all,
and... "you're okay?" "yeah."
"all right. Yeah, I gotta do this?
Let me get the medication. All right, cool."
heart is raising and stuff like this,
-it's like... -He had everything done.
...I said, "I'm gonna pass out in here,
you guys go ahead." [laughs]
you... I mean, but when I woke up,
-everything was taken care of... -Yeah.
...Like, I even tried to get up.
I'm like, "okay. That's over. Let's go."
-yeah. -He's like, "wait,
you gotta lay here for a minute."
-yeah. -You know, so...
But it's just being there for someone,
because it's, you know, you're kind of prepared,
but you're not, you know. Someone gets sick,
they get the cold, you know,
"okay. I'mma get you some noodle soup or whatever."
but when it's something like really serious,
it tests the relationship.
I was really concerned that I wouldn't be able
to have kids or what that would look like
for my crohn's disease,
to be able to have healthy children.
Um...
And she was premature, our daughter, right?
Yeah. Yeah. My... Our oldest,
um, daughter, we actually... I had,
like, a severe case of preeclampsia.
So, it was a real quite the situation.
Indeed. I had to sign papers about if something happens
to your child and you're...
And try to... And then... And then identify themselves,
this was crazy, right?
I'm like, "man, uh..." you know,
it puts you in a bad... Uh, a horrible position,
because it's like, "I love this woman, right?
I ain't... And we have a child,
I never met this child before, right?"
but I kind of decide, this is crazy.
I don't think anybody should ever had to deal with that.
You know what I'm saying? Just...
[sighs] [laughs]
so then after, um, our first daughter
was born premature and then rodney went through that.
And I think all these lessons have toughened you up,
-I mean, I'm sure. -I hope so, yeah.
-[laughs] -it certainly was rough.
And, um, my health was fine,
I felt my very best when I was pregnant with both of my kids.
Um, and then probably ten years later,
the crohn's disease raises, uh, yet again
and had another obstruction.
And so this time, rodney was present for that surgery.
-Mmm-hmm. -And I had lot
of complications, um, blood loss,
needed blood transfusions.
I was in the hospital for a long time.
And he would come, but he would come
and sporadically stay five minutes,
"hey, how are you doing?"
and then he would leave, right?
But at the time, we had two kids.
Um, but he would never really stay,
um, in the hospital.
I go to the hospital and I absorbed whatever energy
is in the room, right?
Doctor, my wife whom I love, uh, you know,
just a pressured situation, diseases happening.
And then you go home and I gotta be
with my kids, right?
So, I don't wanna...
I wanna try to wash all that off before I get to them,
but it was tough. You know what I mean?
It's their mom, too.
Uh, so that was a stormy weather,
in the sense that my homie is in distress, right?
It was, uh...
And then I gotta do all this necessary to make sure
our children have the best semblance of okay.
-Mmm-hmm. -You know what I'm saying?
Well, I felt lonely at the time, right?
-[laughs] -and I wanted him to be there,
um, but, you know,
when you deal with a chronic illness,
you're so focused on making sure that you're whole, right?
I don't think I was really so much focused
on whether or not how long he was there,
but just to be able to see him,
and for him to come, and visit, and be there,
you say those vows, for better or for worse,
you know, rich or for poor, sickness and in health,
and I think that's what you sign up for.
Um, and he did.
He did exactly that.
So within that context, you have a partner, right?
But then, you know, rodney talks about,
you know, ebonics,
then you have a partner, right?
-[laughs] -[shelitha] a partner
and a partner.
He keeps it balanced for me.
She's a very sentimental person.
You know what I mean?
So, she's very good at just being thoughtful
and really doing things from the heart.
You know what I mean?
And, like, she framed some pictures for me
one time of all my kids,
like, it's... I didn't... I didn't have
any of my kids framed or anything like that,
and she found moments that were really cool that we had,
and just framed them, and then gave them to me
as gifts, and I cried a little bit then,
I was like, "what is this..."
-he cried. -"what's this control
that you have over my tears?"
like, I don't be doing all this crying, I'm a thug.
You understand what I'm saying?
[zena] it feels awesome to me,
to be able to give our kids a great example of marriage.
I feel like what we have is a great example
of marriage and I hope that they see that.
And I hope that they take that
into their relationships when they get older,
when they get married, and, you know,
just live the same way.
Mmm-hmm. I think I'm kind of...
I'm split. You know what I'm saying?
In terms of that.
In terms of us, and our marriage,
and our kids, um, awesome,
everything that you just said.
But I have kids from another marriage where it's like...
You know, trying to figure out what that's gonna
look like for them,
what their understanding of all that is...
All of that is gonna be.
And so, you know, a lot of times
I'm in a place where I'm trying
to just overcompensate to be there,
to make sure that, you know, "okay. Listen,
things don't always work out,
but the love for you is everything."
you know what I mean?
And really trying to make that a thing,
but, um, even in... Even in that,
I'm hoping that this, you know,
this light of us putting this together,
and it shining the way it does will not just have
an effect on, um, our kids here,
but, you know, hopefully, um,
my other kids that are watching as well.
You know what I mean?
To just understand it, not...
Life isn't perfect. You know what I mean?
But, um, you keep trying,
you keep working at it, you know,
and carefully you figure out.
You know, you realize in a marriage that,
"look, in order for it to work, right,
nobody can be a bully in a relationship."
I can't impose my will on her, or my beliefs and say,
"this is how it's going to be or else."
because whenever you throw in "or else" in there,
-then you gonna get... -Or else.
-...Or else. -Mmm-hmm.
-They got us closer, though. -Yeah, it did.
When you can go through things like that,
and it may not have seem big to other people, but for us,
it was... It was a big moment in our relationship,
but it made me understand her more,
she understood me more, and we just grew together.
And it taught our kids, too, that you can co-exist
in that type of way, which just teaches them
how to co-exist with other people.
Still to this day, during ramadan,
-our kids will... -Pray with me.
-...Pray with him... -Mmm-hmm.
...And learn what they're saying,
and what everything means.
And just little tiny things that I think are so special,
like, when they pray, their finger does this
little circular thing when they pray,
and there's... Like, that's something
that my kids picked up on, and they do it,
and ask their dad what that means.
And it's just making them better human beings,
which is the point, really.
[whimsical music playing]
[woman] like this moment, people be like,
"ooh, y'all goes..." I'm like,
"oh, you don't know what we went through
to get to this moment, right?"
um, and I don't wish on nobody.
Marriage is a... Is a... Is a constant negotiation.
She used to be like, "love isn't everything."
-and for me... -And he used to get so mad...
-I used to be... -...I'll be like...
Um, I used to be so mad, I'm like,
-"no, love conquers all." -[laughs]
you know what I mean?
I would take it out on him a lot.
I was resentful a little bit in the beginning,
like, "oh, I quit my career for you
and now my name is ephraim's wife."
it was uncomfortable for me, like...
And I never... I guess I...
I think you never said this to me.
I never shared that with him,
but it's like,
"how do you support your partner?"