We were broke, like, we was struggling...
-Yeah. -...In orange county.
I remember one night, we had literally
got coupons in the mail for, like,
free mcmuffins, free orange juice, and eggs.
And we were like, okay, we're gonna use this,
and we went through all the change in our car,
ashtray, picking up the mats, getting change.
-Mmm-hmm. -We came up with $2.37,
and we was like, we're gonna use this
and go buy oodles of noodles...
-[chuckles] -...And [laughs] use these...
-Egg mcmuffins. -Yeah.
Use these coupons so that we can make it
to the next week, you know, until we get paid.
If you give me $20, at the end of the week, I'll have 17.
-He'll be asking me for three. -Mmm-hmm.
So, we know that.
So I'm like, if we do it that way,
and I have money... My money up here
and you're doing... And then you spent
all your money, and I'm like,
oh, let's go on a trip this summer.
-And your account is zero. -Minus.
Minus. [laughs]
then, so maybe we wanna think of some other way
to handle what's left over,
once we pay all of our bills.
I think at least five to six years
before I got to a place where I was
absolutely comfortable with saying
she's in charge.
I'm sure the first couple years, it was...
It was more a conversation... Private conversation,
-you in charge. -[laughs]
um, but publicly, I wasn't gonna say that.
-Right. -I wouldn't go say that to my boys,
like, hey, you know, my wife is in charge
and I got my allowance.
But now, I'm 45, I tell people straight out,
yeah, I got my allowance today, I'm good.
[dramatic music playing]
[tank] I've kind of been on my own time,
doing my own thing, and now that we are married
and now that we are sharing...
Like, sharing everything,
the idea of sharing everything is a very...
Is a very immense concept that...
Yeah, he wasn't a sharer. [laughs]
...That is tough
to get a hold of,
you know what I mean? Because, um,
even, like, the business, I guess,
kind of carries over into your personal,
where, you know, like, I'm the owner of my business,
I do things my way, I get up when I wanna get up,
like, I move how I wanna move, you know what I mean?
And so a lot of that carried over
into us,
like, you don't tell me what to do,
like, I move where I move, you're not my mama,
like, you're my woman, you know what I'm saying?
Like... You know what I'm saying?
Like, I got to get this money, okay?
All right? You gonna get this money?
No. Well, I'll get... Like, it's...
And it's like... It's like, well, hold on, that's...
And so, the idea of consideration,
um, and her feelings completely
and understanding that we are not separate anymore,
we are one, um, it's still the process.
So, real talk.
I, um...
[laughs]
I left my mom's house
and moved into the house we bought.
I had gone from one situation,
um, being a semi-independent adult
to being a husband.
Um, and that was scary and crazy,
and she had been on her own for so long.
We got married, I was 24, you were 29.
-Yes. -Yeah. But it took...
-Yeah. -It took time for me
to get over my whole little ego spiel
and realize that she's better
at managing the checkbook,
at, when it comes to taking care of the bills,
making sure people get paid,
making sure things happen,
um, setting a payment plan,
sticking to it, sticking to a budget,
-that was her. -Yes.
But, you know, me, I'm the man,
don't tell me what to do,
I'm still 20-something years old.
It took me a little while to say, hey, you know what?
For the sake of team radcliffe...
-Yes. -...You're better at this,
so you handle that,
and you just tell me what we need to do,
and I'll follow your lead on that.
But it wasn't overnight.
-No. -It wasn't overnight.
-It took... -...Because you have to deal
with that ego.
You know, we've been together,
uh, through some of my worst financial woes,
you know what I mean, uh, and managing athletes
for 20 years, you know.
There's a period of time where I put my focus
on working with younger, uh, athletes and kids
that were barely...
You know, I mean, they weren't projected
to necessarily make it to the nba.
I had really committed my time to kind of helping guys
that were really on the borderline
of having a career,
and, uh, you know, that end up being...
I mean, that and a client who did give a...
To... Whatever... About paying his agent fees,
and owed a lot of money.
But that being said, uh, you know,
I went through a period where, you know, um,
man, the finances were non-existent...
I mean, she made funds, she's like, yo,
she's a very... She's like, your company,
I mean, it's been great, you know what I'm saying?
But it is now turned into a foundation.
[laughs] you know what I mean?
Which was heartbreaking for me...
-[laughs] -...But the reality is,
I mean, anything that you're working at daily,
and you're not receiving
financial compensation, you know what I'm saying,
of some sort, to take care of what you need to take care.
I mean, and it had become that, and it was...
It was... It was heartbreaking to me because,
you know, my job, and what I did
was about helping, you know,
which, majority are, young black men.
When we moved in together, it was...
-Some crazy circumstances. -...Moving across the country
together, to laguna.
-And, uh... -Orange county, california.
Pursuit of her dream...
-Yeah. -...Which is to be an actress.
-Everybody were like... -Everybody's saying...
-...Y'all crazy. -...Y'all crazy.
-Yeah. Yeah. -Yeah.
I know, with me, with my family,
it was, boy, you whipped, you know.
They used a little bit of different language,
but, you know, that's the nature of it.
That's what they were saying, but yeah, they was, like, uh,
you sure you going out here for the right reasons,
and it's because you ain't lived enough?
-Because I was already there. -Yeah.
I had moved three months before.
-Uh-hmm. -So I decided,
I'm going to california,
and you do what you're gonna do
or you come and move with me, you know?
And so I went first,
and I was there for a couple months.
I didn't tell him how bad it was,
I was renting this room, but this woman was taking
all my money, I was working two jobs,
nowhere near la, ain't doing nobody acting, okay?
[laughs] couldn't even find la on my own, okay?
Um, but I just knew I wanted him to be with me,
and plan was, he was gonna come out,
and we would go get our own apartment in la.
But I ain't tell him that I can't afford
to even save a dollar, really, right?
-Set a brother up. -And so when he got here,
you know, when he got to laguna,
you know, after three months of me being here,
he was like, girl, this crazy, what you doing?
He was like, no, we need to save up money
and move back to north carolina,
and then save up there because it's cheaper.
And then move to la after one year,
and then you can really pursue your acting.
And I thought, okay, well, sound like a good plan.
And the one-year plan turned into,
-of course, five years... -Yeah.
...And a baby, and we got married,
and I completely forgot about my dream of acting.
I convinced myself I couldn't have it, so...
Um, but yeah, we struggled
for a very long time.
Karl came from six brothers and sisters,
things being rationed out,
but, like, always taken care of.
-Mmm-hmm. -So he never felt lack,
and he saw that done with little.
I came from, like, having what I needed
and it was only the two of us,
and so money never really meant much to me,
but karl, once he got out there
and started making his money,
it was important to him.
And it was needed to be saved and held onto,
and I'm like, you could die tomorrow,
like, live your life, spend your money, like...
And a little of that, I had to pull back on, right?
Because at some point, you have to learn
to be an adult and save.
But when he met me, I was just like...
-She made her own money. -I was my own trick.
-Yeah, yeah. -Like, I was just like tricking by herself,
like, I was just, like,
oh, I bought this for you, right?
And just leaving some for myself on the counter,
like, I would just... And a part of it
was my depression.
A part of it was me retail therapying myself
-out of, like, sad moments? -Mmm-hmm.
And I think that that dwindled
the longer we were married,
and came back during certain times
because when we're going through infertility,
the amazon man knew me by name,
like, because I was just...
I would shop through my problems.
I think people especially think
when you're over 40
and you got two people who are working in careers,
and they come together that money is a problem,
money's never been a problem in our, uh, marriage,
because like she said, I knew I was bad with it,
she knew she was good with it.
Uh, like viola davis said,
when I came, my credit was horrible.
-[laughs] -I like to say now,
I have some of the best credit I've ever had...
His credit is better than mine.
...Because, you know,
she said, trust the process.
And I have an allowance, you know.
At first, I hated that,
but there's nothing that I don't want for,
you know, the allowance, actually...
Because she asked me, she said, okay, if I...
We sat down, she said,
how much do you think you need to spend?
So me being uh, you know...
Oh, I said, I need $200 a month.
She said, okay, you know what? I'mma give you...
I'mma give you $300 a month,
that way, you know, you won't be dipping into it.
You know, $300 a month is actually more than enough
because, you know, we get paid every two weeks,
so I'm getting a hundred and fifty dollars
every two weeks. So, uh...
-Nothing goes in... -And...
You know, like, I don't dip into the house.
Now, every now and then, she get on me,
she'd be like, how much money you got in your account?
-[laughs] -I'm like, why? It's my account.
But... And just say that that $300 a month
is just discretionary, whatever.
-Yeah. -It's like, you know,
there's all other kinds of stuff
that comes out of that, that's not clothes
or shoes or whatever.
That's, you know, his 7-eleven runs
-or fishing gear or... -Yeah.
He's a hobby... He's a hobby hopper.
So this... His current hobby is fishing.
It's about 2,500 fishing reels and bobbers.
So that's just...
Do whatever you want with that... With that...
-Uh, with that money. -Shoe money. It's shoe money.
Oh, yeah, he'll buy shoes, too, a lot of shoes.
But you buy shoes, too.
-Well... Okay. -Okay.
In the beginning, we did one account.
-Right. -But I was burning
my atm card up bad, real bad.
And so...
Yeah. And I would be like...
But she's also ocd
when it comes to certain stuff,
so I would be at the restaurant
with my boys,
and I would literally have just swiped my card,
and I get a phone call.
Um, what's this 13 dollars and 53 cents
you just spend at...
I'm like, cia up in this piece?
-[laughs] -yeah.
So, it took a long time for you to tell me.
Yeah. Because I always knew
what we needed... What we needed to pay out.
He didn't.
-So, it's just like... -Nope.
...If he's gonna write a check
or he's gonna spend money, it's like,
we need to... We need to run that by each other.
Now, but he will say that I just do it
-without him knowing. -Yeah.
-Because I always knew... -Yeah, see that's...
-...What was available. -That's the flip side.
So that was... That was the...
So it took me, like, five to six years to say...
To relinquish control,
but then it took maybe another five years
for me to be able to articulate
-how I was feeling about it. -Yeah.
I have... I had to have about a couple hundred thousand,
and I had about $3,500 left in the bank.
I was like,
I have really spent all my money
at the strip club?
-Stupid. -That's... Yeah.
[laughs]
I have the... You know, this alter ego,
-his name is frank the tank. -[chuckles]
so we never want frank the tank...
-[laughter] -...To come out,
-because... -[producer laughs]
...Frank the tank is a wild boy.
[laughs]
we don't... We don't want frank...
Like, frank the tank...
I remember... I remember one day,
I woke up, and this is...
Yeah, this is early, um, when I first started
getting my little bit of money.
And I woke up,
and I was sleeping on the floor,
in my mama house.
I had a bunch... Pairs of shoes,
um, no car,
and I checked my account. And I had...
I had to have about a couple hundred thousand,
and I had about $3,500 left in the bank.
And I was like,
I've really spent all my money
at the strip club?
-Stupid. -That's... Yeah.
[laughs]
I've really spent
all my money at the strip club.
And you'd think that that would have taught me
not to do that again.
-Wrong. -[laughs]
wrong, see, because now, I moved to la.
These are different strip clubs.
And they have to know my name.
-So you got to do it all over? -I got to do it.
[laughter]
he's the type that he will...
Not buy anything,
and then come home with a $12,000 motorcycle.
-And you're like... -Yeah. Hey...
-Excuse me? Excuse me? What? -That's a good buy.
But will check me on the six amazon packages
that totaled $36, that are on our...
-On our front steps. -First of all,
you ain't never bought six amazon packages
that totaled up to $36, like...
What I... We just differ in how we spend money.
I spend in little bits here and there
that add up to a lot. And he will go out
-and just... -That add up to $12,000.
-Yeah. They probably do. -Yeah.
They probably do. But I think
because he sees it so much
he's like you're spending a lot, you know,
and I'm like, not really.
And I have an amazon therapy
that I do, where I shop.
-That is the worst... -[laughs]
-...Saving... -I shop just for fun.
And then at the end of the month I have a lot
of things that I don't end up needing,
like, I'll buy a six outfits for one thing.
And then I return five of them
and then it's like a savings account,
because at the end of the month
that money is back in my account, right?
And then I just transfer it into to my savings.
I'm like I didn't use that money.
That is the worst saving account idea ever.
But if I like I got to spend it already
and then at the end of the month
it's back on my savings account,
-why does it matter? -It matters...
I'll tell you why. It matters...
Notice his hand came from away from me.
I'm glad... I'm glad we're talking about this.
He was cuddled up and now we talk about finances...
-Oh. -His hands are over there.
[laughs]
if you're putting away $300 a month.
-Mmm-hmm. -For your amazon purchases.
And you're spending years-- year and you're returning
and you're getting the money back.
-Right. -And it goes a whole year
-of doing this, right? -Uh-huh.
And your savings account is like at 3000 or 36,
-I wouldn't say anything. -Yeah.
But if it's still at about the same amount
when it started at the beginning of the year...
-[laughs] -you ain't doing much saving.
But that's because it's a... It's a process.
-Is that right? -It just... It is. Like and...
-Shopping. -And there's something to be said
about being up at 2:00 am nursing.
-And all of you have there... -You were doing this...
-...Is this phone. -You were doing this before the baby.
I know but now I have an excuse.
[laughs]
I did... I did it before, yeah.
No, I have a problem.
When you're in charge, whether...
Whoever in the relationship, when... If you're the one
that's writing the checks, you know what's in the account.
You know what's not in the account,
so when you're the other person, there's a...
There's a level of humility like,
hey, can I have $30 to go buy some drawers, you know.
[laughs] can I go buy some socks,
you know, you... It can be demeaning,
it can be, you know, it makes you feel
almost like child, right?
And then the other person because they have control,
they see it.
When they would need to do something
-they just make a move. -Right.
So it felt for a long time like,
oh, you just get to go spend whatever you want to.
I come, you got boxes and bags.
And I got to ask for permission
to go get some da-don-de-dons, you know?
But everything was always taken care of.
-It was. -And everything, but I understand...
-But the freedom... -...What you're saying.
Yeah. I felt like I had to ask permission.
And I felt like you was just balling out.
And that wasn't necessarily the case,
but that was my perception.
Even though I will say
you did spend I a little more freer than I did,
-'cause you saw it. -Yes.
So by the time I got to whatever
I've got a list of stuff in my head.
I know I need to get a pair of shoes, I need...
And I don't say anything because I'm figuring
things were tight.
And then I see you got bags, like well,
hey, I need a little something.
But by then we're like, oh, well, we got $63
till next pay day. I'm like,
-oh, thank you. -That's real too.
[laughs]
I always know what was available so...
Yeah, and I didn't know it was problem
until I knew it was problem
'cause he didn't say that right off.
I think it was just kind of doing like this.
And then it was to find the words to say it.
And then I felt like when I was initially saying
something it wasn't being heard,
so I'm trying to find a way to say it
effectively without sounding like a spoiled brat.
I saw his financial component waning,
his health deteriorated.
-His... -Yeah. My health got bad.
His mannerisms changed.
I had a auto immune disease and didn't know it.
He was jekyll and hyde.
He gave his all to all of his clients,
whether they were nba champions or not.
And when I saw his financial component waning,
his health deteriorated.
-His... -Yeah. My health got bad.
His mannerisms changed.
I had a auto immune disease and didn't know it.
-He was jekyll and hyde. -And, um...
So, you know, distressed. I mean, stress is a killer.
So, you know, I'm dealing with all this financial stress.
And, you know, I mean this is the first time
in I don't know how long that I have not been
able to maintain and take care...
I mean, live beyond what I want to do
and take care of myself.
Working in an entertainment industry,
it is no such thing as security. There is no...
I mean it's hills and valleys, and everything.
There's no such thing as a foundation
'cause you create your own.
But the foundation you create are the people
that you stand with.
And for me standing with him meant that
even when his resources and finances were...
How do you say...
...Were non-existent, I paid his bills.
You know what I mean? I made sure he was good
so that he can have the mentality, the mental to...
The mental space to clear his mind and figure out
what is my transition, you know.
And it wasn't that he wasn't making money.
The money wasn't coming in because if those guys
don't pay their dues, he don't get paid.
Yeah. If they don't pay the agent fees,
-I don't get paid. -So there was months
that he went without getting paid.
And eventually I was like I got you,
whatever we need to do, you know, let me...
Let me do it. And at times you were like
okay, now, wait a minute now.
Last year I was repositioned
out of a job that I thought I was going to retire in.
And to call erica took a lot
to walk from that gate to my car.
And erica said to me,
just get in the car and come home.
I'll meet you at home.
And then I wanted to sit here.
I wanted to have penny party and she was like
okay, let me show you this, this, this
will all be taken care of,
don't worry about it, okay?
Just 'cause somebody else didn't see your value,
please don't put, you know, a whole bunch into that.
As I was looking for another job,
you know, I was in a funk,
but she never was and she would always
come on, you know, let's, you know...
Let's do this, let's do that.
I know that she has my back.
I know that there's no situation,
you know, unless it's something that...
Like, early on we also wrote down deal breakers.
I know what I need not do,
you know, to lose my wife's support, confidence.
Anything else is open game.
When I was officiating football it was her
who said so you want to move to the next level
but you just not really doing it,
so I started going to football camps.
You know, when I didn't get picked up,
you know, by she was like okay, you know,
there's next year.
You know, she was always there, always there.
It seemed like every year and half I was going
to a different job and I needed something more stable,
so I mean we've gone through this ebbs and flows.
And then there was a season where we were both
working for the sheriff's department
-making very good money. -Mmm-hmm.
We moved to a bigger house in downey,
you know, a million dollar home.
And she's driving a mercedes.
I'm driving a pimped out eddie bauer expedition.
-Life is good. -Mmm-hmm.
And then there's this whole call to ministry thing.
And I leave the sheriff's department
to go work full time at a church.
-She gets... -Yeah. That was...
Yeah. She gets injured on her... In her back.
-Yeah. -And then we lose our house.
We end up having to do a short sale.
-We got stuff with one of those... -Bankruptcy.
-Yeah. So... -Sounds like... Yeah, we've had.
We've had so many ebbs and flows
and then we were renting homes for years.
And with all of that I think her sister suggested
that we go sit and talk with somebody.
And we come out of a christian tradition
-that didn't... -Didn't support that.
...Talk about that. It was mental health
-was the devil. -And culture.
Culturally it was just wasn't
something that was, like,
he encouraged to do. It's oh, that is cursed,
oh, you'll work through it,
you'll get over it.
And then being pastor,
and pastor's wife is really like okay.
You know, you're thinking to back out here,
when I started there I'm thinking back out here, okay.
And people you're the pastor's wife
you have also have this faith and all this
whatever it's like, you know, but I'm going crazy.
I need somebody just knows more than I do.
Yes. I need to be equipped with tools for this
because when I'm in my head I'm in my head.
And it... It can be a dangerous place
when you don't have anyone to give you direction
on how this process to just let's think
of this a different way, you know?
Yeah. We had done premarital counseling right
-before we got married. -Yes.
But therapy counseling wasn't on the radar
until hit that spot about seven years in.
And I'm so glad that we went.
Yeah. She was extremely helpful.
She was patient, she was insightful,
and she really helped us
get through to meet
the lowest spot in my marriage.
-Yeah. -That's true.
-Absolutely. -[laughs]
-what is it? -I'm a grown-ass man
and a suit or out a suite,
you know what I'm saying? You know, yeah.
You know I'm saying? You know,
I hadn't been in this position
in a very long time, you know,
my company did well from the inception of it
for, you know, close to 15 years.
So it was... I mean it's for...
Most man that are prideful men
that are raised to take care of families,
you know, you have a point where your finances
ain't right. You know, it messes with you,
you know what saying? And you don't want
to ask for help. I mean it was uncomfortable
if I if ever had to maintain anything.
But she did a pretty good job
and, you know, and stepping in
and making sure that what need to get
-taken got taken care off. -Did you say
-pretty good job? -I mean I'm being honest
with you now. I didn't have to have ask you
a couple times, like, girl [indistinct]
-what's up... -[laughs]
you can go pay that car though?
Like what we... What we we doing you know?
You know I'm saying and, you know, but...
But what I told him was, it taught us both something,
'cause I said, you know, we both do the same things
and you are proud if you don't want to ask help.
I was like I just need to know where you need me
to insert, where do you need me to...
She, you know, she tell me, she's, like, look,
-you have that... -What did I say?
...Pride, you know.
-And you have to know... -Did I say it like that?
...Be willing to be vocal, and I was like,
now get out of here, man.
Come on drop that pride, like,
oh, you know, what's up with these bills
didn't get paid. I need you to step up
and make this happen.
You know what I mean? What's up?
You know, really.
Give me five years,
I'mma be a a-list celebrity, okay?
And he... In 2009 don't worry about it,
-I got you. Okay. -Hey, you just...
You just... You just 10 years...
I'm 10 years late on it, okay.
-...To let me know, so. -Then 15 years.
The way we handle our finances,
I use to let outsiders get in my head about it.
And because we used to have a joint account
and it was like why you spending that,
why are you going to panda express, why are you?
And he was like don't check me about my food
and fought more about it that way.
And so, I remember telling someone,
oh we're going to have separate accounts
and they're like that's not marriage.
I'm like that's not your marriage,
like, that's my marriage.
And that's what helps us
so we have our bills. We say this is what I need
from you every month, this is what I need
from you every month it goes into a main account.
And then everything gets drafted from there.
And what you do with your money,
and what you do with yours is good
as long as none of our bills fall through,
as long as we stay on track with our goals
-for we're saving for. -Mmm-hmm.
We're... We've found a way to make it work for us.
-That works for us. -Yeah. And it was...
...It was mostly about me not worrying
about what people think about us having...
But like what if he's taking a girl on a date.
I'm like first of all that's not the man I married,
so I'm not worried about things like that
that you're worried about.
So, maybe you should worry about that.
Yeah. 'cause when she start confronting me
about my panda trips, I said can't have this,
-this is too much. -Yeah. Yeah.
-I'm a grown man. -Man. [laughs]
and I can't even go get a two combo, man.
I need my orange chicken.
I had to have something, you know,
you always want to deflect onto someone,
like, take away from my amazon hurts,
and like well, you went to panda.
-But you did this? -But it's panda,
who doesn't like panda?
Who doesn't like amazon?
And I guess who ask to ask her permission.
To go to the strip club.
I was blowing money fast it was horrible.
And it was like, you get set caught up in it.
I was caught up in hollywood.
And when I walk in the strip club
the hostess, they knew my name.
And it's uh-oh that boy walked in here, make way.
Sitting me at the front stage,
I'm giving my love offering together.
And I was just... It was just a thing
that I was just in
-and I didn't... -Look how excited
he got talking about it though.
-...The frank the tank. -You see his eyes light up.
-[laughter] -frank the tank, right?
And then she's like this so where are you at?
I was like, well we just went to this little strip club.
Little strip club? I know it just...
That ain't no little strip club.
...A little strip club. You know,
we have some wings...
We have some wings. I have wings, blue cheese.
That was good for the food right?
Yeah. Blue cheese you get any dancers.
I had a couple of dancers there's not a lot of dancers,
like, you know, there were...
There were girls dancing,
you know what I'm saying? And then she can't wait to,
but how much money you spent?
-Oh, I didn't... -That's really the first question.
I didn't spend a lot of money at all.
-How much did you spend? -How much did you spend, tank?
I didn't... Babe maybe $3, 000,
maybe $4,000 not that much.
It's not that... It's not that crazy
I'll make it back.
I'm uh, I got this gig next week
-that's gonna... -You know what bills we got?
That could have went to.
That's gonna replenish everything
and you just hold on let me get this, you know.
But I'm doing good...
I'm doing good I tried to stay...
I keep that to a minimum and I stay in safe places.
-Amen. -To honor my wife.
I think that, you know, whether it's money if I...
Or whatever, one are the things
that we really learned and agreed upon
was that we didn't have
to have traditional male, female roles.
Whoever is best at whatever
then you take on that task.
Well, 'cause you ain't never take the trash out, okay?
-Oh, I'm not good at that. -Okay.
'cause that's not my... That's not my...
That's not my gifting... That's not my gifting.
So I'm okay with walking in my gift.
-Okay. All right. -[laughs]
so, yeah. I agree, like, money was never and...
Yeah. That's never been an issue.
...It has never been an issue.
And I think we figured out what has worked for us.
And it's really worked out.
Yeah. And, you know, we only have one account.
You know, other than the, you know,
the allowance account that I have.
But there's only one account, you know.
And if she does have another account
where she's hiding money, excellent.
But I don't want it to, you know,
seem like I put all of the financial burdens
-on her shoulders. -Um-um.
'cause the one thing she does
is she makes you to I pay the mortgage...
And, you know, I get to pound my chest.
I get to pay the mortgage though. But...
-Yup. We worked it out. -Yeah. We worked it out,
you know, we have worked it out.
-So it works for us, you know. -Mmm-hmm.
And I'm sure it doesn't work for everybody like that.
Listen, any time I put something
on the american express she hears about it.
I'm okay with that.
You know, it's checks and balances.
All right? Checks and balances.
And I have been trying for the last couple of years
to retire my husband.
It has been my ultimate goal.
Our original plan was always he would,
you know, be a policeman for five years.
-And I... -This was...
When we first moved to la,
I was like, "babe, you go do that
because it's good job.
It's a good salary and benefits, right?"
this was... This was her.
-Okay. This is... -Yeah.
...What I brought... When I brought it to her...
I brought it her, you know,
"babe, what do you think about this?
Do you think I could do this?"
all right. And she was like, you...
My wife has always told me I could do anything, right?
-You can do anything. -Yes.
She gonna help me do anything.
But with this, it was like,
"you only gonna do it for five years."
-that's what it was. -Because my plan was
in five years, oh, I'm a blow-up
in five years. Give me five years.
I'm gonna be at a a-list celebrity. Okay?
Honey in 2009, don't worry about it.
-I got you, okay? -You just...
-You just 10 years... -I'm 10 years late
on it, okay. Then 15 years, but,
it has been my...
Ultimate goal is to take my husband
out of that environment. It was simply the fact
that I'm not comfortable that my husband
has to wear, uh, a bulletproof vest
to go to work every day.
I don't... I love that he is willing to die
for strangers and other people
but I much rather him
only be willing to die for us in this house. Okay?
So, there was a point in our relationship
even when I did take the reins
where I was like is this a cycle,
like, we're now struggling together now,
I'm holding the fort up like my mom used to.
I'm trying to fee... Help him figure it out.
And he was very angry.
He was an a-hole at times.
-He was snappy. -I was but, you know,
-uh, I'm here to... -His libido was gone,
-you know, it was just... -I'm here in this finance
position, not because of my lack of work,
because of somebody else's decision
not to take care of their responsibilities.
Hence, the closest person to you for that
was me and you know, like proverbs says 15:1,
when the tongue... That you got to hold the tongue
that wrath is big. So there's a lot of times
-that I had to hold my tongue. -She was... We're totally...
She will... She's like my dad.
She will pray the sun until the sun come up.
-No, I don't. -You know I'm saying?
And it comes up every day.
I'm my dad and my mom. My mom...
He sees the glass half empty, I always see the...
You know, well, not only that.
-...When runneth over. -And she's... Yeah,
I think, she's always been more hopeful,
whereas, you know, I'm not worried
about tomorrow because I'm looking
at the balance today.
You know what I'm saying?
And you can be hopeful that to balance
is going to be different tomorrow
-but today, so... -But that's why I felt...
That's why I felt the need to not be honest
with him in a moment but I did journal about it
and I was like, "I don't really know
what this is, but, uh, I really want
to figure out what we're going to do for him."
I was calling people to see like,
okay, what could he do on the inside?
He knows a lot of people
and he didn't want to go inside.
He's like, I don't want to work
for anybody else but myself.
She's really for me a system of accountability
that I do need.
That I didn't know I needed, you what I mean?
Because the whole time I've been fighting
this idea of getting out from under my mom.
Every year at our... We got this from my parents.
Every year for our anniversary,
we sit down and we make... We go to dinner
and we make three individual goals
and then three couple goals.
But what we did this year
that was different than the past four years.
Is we've set monthly check-ins.
-Mm-hmm. -So instead of, like,
setting our goal
what, like at the anniversary
and then getting to the next anniversary
and being like, "we didn't do
-none that stuff." -yeah. Yeah.
We meet every month now we're like, "okay.
Where are you at with this goal?
Where you at with this goal?"
and I think that that's helping
because I do... I will say,
I have more conviction about my amazon purchases
and I've not purchased
a lot of things that I wanted to purchase.
Meanwhile, I'm staring at all my amazon
-bags. -See? I'm just...
But they're in that pile because they're going back.
-Are they? -Yes.
It's been in that pile for few weeks now.
I know.
I got some decisions to make.
A lot of guys like they go into this place
and they're looking to cash in.
So, they're throwing the money up.
They're buying the bottles looking to hook something.
You know, I'm saying? I'm doing it.
I'm literally doing it
because it makes me feel good.
It makes me feel like,
it made me feel like I was somebody.
You know I'm saying? I was and I wasn't somebody
I was the somebody, everybody's watching me.
You know I'm saying? And so like, I wouldn't like,
it was like you would have think that I had
like a gang of dancer girlfriends and all of that.
No. It was... It's never like that.
I would literally go in there and throw all my money
and leave by myself
and I didn't feel empty. I felt fulfilled.
I only felt empty
when I went to bank of america.
That was the only time I felt empty,
-but outside of that... -Low funds?
Low funds. You know I'm saying?
You get them insufficient fund
letters in the mail.
You owe us $35 times a hundred,
you know, it was something else.
It's a lot going on back then.
Babe, it's a lot... It's lot I had to get over.
-Thank god you got me. -I have to find myself.
Amen. You saved me. You saved me.
And she's really for me
a system of accountability that I do need.
That I didn't know I needed. You what I mean?
Because the whole time I'd been fighting
this idea of getting out from under my mom
because my mom is like, like I said,
she ruled with an iron fist,
so I just always felt like I never wanted
to be controlled like that.
I can control my life. You know my mom,
I went through enough of that with my mama,
you know I'm saying?
But growing, being able to look back
and see that I've always thrived
in systems of accountability.
And so, I needed her more than I actually knew.
You know what I mean?
Um, it would save me from myself.
Where did we learn how to communicate,
um, about our finances?
To me, it comes back to our friendship
that from early on in our friendship.
We had the practice of just having
-awkward conversations. -Yes.
So it's not that we always get it right.
-Right. -Sometimes we walk away
thinking, "oh, I know she heard me."
oh, you know, she like, oh, I know he got...
And then we screw it up again.
Oh, yes. So we keep trying.
It's like keep talking, keep talking
keep forgiving, and continue to be open,
because it's like your point of view might be
completely different from the other, you know,
-and it's just like... -But we're gonna keep talking.
We're gonna keep talking,
because if you don't talk then you allow yourself
to feed off of something and I feel like
whatever you nurture is what's going to grow.
So if we're not talking
then whatever is in my head that's negative.
That's what I'm nurturing.
That's what's growing until it pops.
And if I don't talk,
I have a whole argument with you in my head.
Like I know what you're gonna say
-when you gonna say. -Yes.
I have the entire argument in my head.
So I've argued with you five times before I come.
So it's easier to just have those
-difficult conversations. -Yes.
And those were important for us
because financially, we went through...
In 22 years we've gone through a lot of this.
I'm a daddy's girl, right?
Always have been a daddy's girl.
Um, and I was so dependent on my daddy.
And so if anything would go wrong,
I'd like, "I can call my daddy."
you know, we need some money. I'mma call my daddy.
And he had to teach me, "no.
If I'm with you now, it's me and you."
ght?
Always have been a daddy's girl.
Um, and I was so dependent on my daddy.
And so, if anything would go wrong,
I'd be like, "I can call my daddy."
you know, we need some money, I'mma call my daddy.
And he had to teach me,
"no. If I'm with you now, it's me and you.
You can't just call your daddy.
He had never respect me, right?"
so I learned to lean on my husband
who was my boyfriend at the time.
And it was no longer.
I need help from anybody other than him
and vice versa.
So it just became
what do we need from each other
and it was hard,
there was... But it was certain times,
especially when you are struggling
and you don't know anybody else
and you're all alone.
We were... We became each other's best friend.
It was we all we got. It was just me and him.
We're the only ones who understand this love.
We the only ones who are in it.
I see you and you see me.
And we just gonna do whatever we feel we should do.
I went from running a company to going to work
with guy that I used to refer on my, uh, limo clients,
uh, to, I worked for $15 an hour.
-He did. -And you talking about humble.
-That is some humble as pie. -I made his lunch. It sure was.
I mean it was but, you know,
it was a moment for me to grow
-and I knew as a boss. -Mm-hmm.
I'm not going in here to work for this man
for $15 an hour.
I am going in here to get a degree
-in how to run this business. -Right.
And that's what I did. So, I went to work for him...
And there was several conversations
we'd have to talk him out. And I had to tell him
-because he's big on respect. -Yeah.
He's big on, you know, being respecting.
He felt like as a man you... That's what's important.
And I told him, I said,
"you're going through a transition."
I said, "and there are some things
that god is humbling you with.
And a lot of times in this process and this transition,
it's really not about the other person.
A lot of times is about you and your growth."
this is what this man did and I will...
I will toot your horn since you know,
um, you know, I kind of did a good job,
um, carrying the load.
So, for christmas what he ended up doing
in this is again moving into that
following January of us getting pregnant.
He gave me, um, a lump of money.
Now, he from chicago, it was a wad of money,
but I think he went to cvs
and got like this bird nest thing.
I don't know what this thing was,
but he had pushed a bunch of money in it,
it was so trahgetto,
it was so like love and basketball
like meets the notebook, but I saw it
and I'm thinking what is this bird like
light chandelier thing and I still have it.
There was... Can I tell him how much was in it.
There was $25,000 in this
and what he said was this is our nest egg
towards our future.
He's like so, it's a down payment on the house,
you know, we have a baby coming.
I don't want you to worry about a client.
I don't want you to worry a about a photo shoot.
I don't want to worry about nothing else
but what you need to do.
We've had some deep roller coasters
and it was like those are things
-that can make or break it. -Had destroy a lot of couples.
It can really get intense in there
because it's just like... It's like
-when money is an issue... -No.
-Money, communication... -Money and sex.
-Yeah, it's, like... -Money, sex. They...
They can really...
-Those are the multipliers. -Yes.
They exacerbate
-everything else. -Everything else.
If your money is good and your sex is good.
You can look over everything else.
If your money is bad in the sex is bad.
You are every, "why is that thing?
Why is that on the floor? Why you got lint on your..."
-everything is hard. -Yeah. Yes.
Most of our ebbs and flows financially
were really just us getting closer together.
They were financial issues. And I did feel,
especially when we had the first one
and we were losing the house and the cars
and we had to downsize the cars.
We went from, you know,
from the mercedes to the... To the toyota,
-uh, you know to the mazda. -But I liked my toyota,
-I'm cool. -Right.
Like those were for me, I did feel
like a traditional typical male ego
like, "man, is she gonna still rock with me,
after we go from a million-dollar home
to just renting a house?
Um, is she gonna rock with me when she was in a mercedes
and now she's in a mazda or toyota?"
um, I did feel like that,
but one thing we kept telling each other,
you know, money will come and go
-but we got love in spades. -Love and spades.
-This ain't gonna break us. -Yeah, we got love and spades.
This ain't gonna break us. It shook us
but it wasn't gonna break us.
-Yeah. So those... -And then...
Those things kept us I think, stronger.
Like, honestly allowed us to see
that it wasn't about the money.
It wasn't about the cars that we just genuinely,
we had each other's back we...
-Yes. And we kept talking. -Yeah.
And so we were make... I would make
conscious efforts to try and say things
that are supportive, that are uplifting,
that are going to be encouraging.
It's like, "okay. Yeah, this can happen,
whatever, but I ain't going nowhere.
There was just so many small things.
I look back, I call them small now,
they weren't small, at the time, they were huge,
because everybody wants their kid to be accepted.
Nobody wants their kid to be the odd kid out.
And simple things like play-days.
Nobody would invite.
I was in the bathroom and I just pleaded
I was like, "lord, you know, whatever it is,
whatever purpose this is,
whatever platform you give me, I'll take it.
But please don't take away
my opportunity of being a mother."
when she and I were on the phone,
I was using some colorful language.
She was like, "you talk like that
in front of your daughter?"
and I'm like, "uh, yeah."
and she was like, "you do realize
if you talk like that to her, she'll get so used to
and if a man talks like that to her who's not her father,
it won't mean anything."
they were like, "come on jason.
You gonna... You gonna be such a great father."
and this is... They were saying that to us...
To me over dinner
and, uh, it took someone on the outside
who is also very close to us
and actually went through surrogacy as well
to say something like that.
[dramatic music playing]