1 00:00:16,317 --> 00:00:17,917 - This was a gruesome murder. 2 00:00:17,919 --> 00:00:21,386 A high profile executive and his wife 3 00:00:21,388 --> 00:00:23,722 Shot to death in beverly hills. 4 00:00:23,724 --> 00:00:25,792 We don't really think 5 00:00:25,794 --> 00:00:28,927 That children can murder their parents. 6 00:00:28,929 --> 00:00:30,463 You have to have a lot of evil in you 7 00:00:30,465 --> 00:00:31,798 To shoot your mom and dad. 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,266 - Young, rich, handsome. 9 00:00:34,268 --> 00:00:36,468 In a case made for hollywood, 10 00:00:36,470 --> 00:00:38,270 They were ready for the cameras. 11 00:00:38,272 --> 00:00:41,206 - It was the first televised courtroom drama 12 00:00:41,208 --> 00:00:42,875 That captivated the united states. 13 00:00:42,877 --> 00:00:45,344 It was a huge deal. 14 00:00:45,346 --> 00:00:47,279 - Erik and lyle menendez 15 00:00:47,281 --> 00:00:50,482 Convicted of murdering their own parents. 16 00:00:50,484 --> 00:00:54,486 - I ran around and shot my mom. 17 00:00:54,488 --> 00:00:56,622 - It wasn't real. It just wasn't real. 18 00:00:56,624 --> 00:00:57,690 They're sociopaths, 19 00:00:57,692 --> 00:00:59,758 And they're pretty big ones. 20 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,362 - Chilling new details. 21 00:01:02,364 --> 00:01:06,498 A letter hinting at secrets too dark to imagine. 22 00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:08,167 - This is so out of the norm. 23 00:01:08,169 --> 00:01:09,969 Something's going on in that house. 24 00:01:09,971 --> 00:01:14,107 - Did they kill in cold blood or in crippling fear? 25 00:01:14,109 --> 00:01:15,908 - Oh, man, it was gut wrenching. 26 00:01:15,910 --> 00:01:17,376 I wanted to bust the door down. 27 00:01:17,378 --> 00:01:19,377 - They spoke the truth about what had happened. 28 00:01:19,379 --> 00:01:21,948 - Hear from the brothers themselves. 29 00:01:23,651 --> 00:01:25,250 - Let's go through this bit by bit. 30 00:01:25,252 --> 00:01:27,919 - There was no way he was gonna let the secret get out. 31 00:01:27,921 --> 00:01:32,057 Silence destroyed our whole family. 32 00:01:32,059 --> 00:01:39,798 ♪♪ 33 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,935 - Hello, and welcome to "dateline: Secrets uncovered." 34 00:01:42,937 --> 00:01:46,539 Jose and kitty menendez were living the american dream 35 00:01:46,541 --> 00:01:49,274 In one of the country's most famous zip codes 36 00:01:49,276 --> 00:01:51,743 And gave their sons, lyle and erik, 37 00:01:51,745 --> 00:01:54,145 Every advantage money could buy. 38 00:01:54,147 --> 00:01:56,949 Then a hail of gunfire shattered the life 39 00:01:56,951 --> 00:01:58,951 They worked so hard to build. 40 00:01:58,953 --> 00:02:01,820 As the ghastly details of the crime spilled out 41 00:02:01,822 --> 00:02:03,955 So did family secrets. 42 00:02:03,957 --> 00:02:04,890 Here's keith morrison 43 00:02:04,892 --> 00:02:08,360 With "unthinkable: The menendez murders." 44 00:02:08,362 --> 00:02:10,829 - Here it was, 45 00:02:10,831 --> 00:02:13,432 The shining symbol of their success. 46 00:02:13,434 --> 00:02:17,869 Here finally an address worthy of their long struggle, 47 00:02:17,871 --> 00:02:20,672 Their amazing rise: 48 00:02:20,674 --> 00:02:22,708 Beverly hills, california. 49 00:02:24,645 --> 00:02:26,278 - Careful what you wish for. 50 00:02:28,316 --> 00:02:31,249 - All these years later, it's still the case 51 00:02:31,251 --> 00:02:33,385 That has the power to shock. 52 00:02:33,387 --> 00:02:35,655 - It's beverly hills, it's the movie business, 53 00:02:35,657 --> 00:02:37,390 It's kids killing their parents. 54 00:02:37,392 --> 00:02:40,259 - What possessed those two handsome young men, 55 00:02:40,261 --> 00:02:42,728 Who had been given everything? 56 00:02:42,730 --> 00:02:45,197 - Black porsche or a rolex-- 57 00:02:45,199 --> 00:02:47,199 They got pretty much what they wanted. 58 00:02:47,201 --> 00:02:50,335 - Why did they give back murder? 59 00:02:50,337 --> 00:02:52,737 - How do you plead? - Not guilty. 60 00:02:52,739 --> 00:02:53,838 - A sensational murder tonight-- 61 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,207 - Theirs was the case to usher in 62 00:02:55,209 --> 00:02:58,810 Wall-to-wall tv coverage, even before o.J. 63 00:02:58,812 --> 00:03:01,146 - I was just firing as I went into the room. 64 00:03:01,148 --> 00:03:02,348 I just started firing. 65 00:03:02,350 --> 00:03:04,950 - The kind of horror you couldn't stop watching. 66 00:03:04,952 --> 00:03:07,619 - What was in front of you? 67 00:03:07,621 --> 00:03:09,087 - My parents. 68 00:03:09,089 --> 00:03:13,759 - You'll hear the real story, told by the investigators.... 69 00:03:13,761 --> 00:03:15,827 - His face was disfigured 70 00:03:15,829 --> 00:03:18,363 From the shotgun blast that he took 71 00:03:18,365 --> 00:03:19,565 To the back of the head. 72 00:03:19,567 --> 00:03:21,600 - By the young men themselves. 73 00:03:27,641 --> 00:03:30,075 - The real life details 74 00:03:30,077 --> 00:03:33,044 Of the defense that shocked america. 75 00:03:33,046 --> 00:03:35,113 - We'd be in the bathroom, 76 00:03:35,115 --> 00:03:38,717 And, uh, he would put me on my knees. 77 00:03:38,719 --> 00:03:41,519 - What I'm lookin' to see is he telling the truth or not? 78 00:03:41,521 --> 00:03:44,255 - We'll ask the brother at the center of it all 79 00:03:44,257 --> 00:03:45,924 About truth. 80 00:03:45,926 --> 00:03:48,528 - To this day, I'm still dealing with-- 81 00:03:48,530 --> 00:03:50,061 With the controversy of it, 82 00:03:50,063 --> 00:03:52,665 Obviously my own guilt in what-- in-in what happened. 83 00:03:52,667 --> 00:03:53,865 - Sure. 84 00:03:53,867 --> 00:03:57,203 What really happened and why? 85 00:03:57,205 --> 00:04:01,741 So, to understand, where to begin? 86 00:04:01,743 --> 00:04:06,144 How 'bout here, illinois, the 1940s? 87 00:04:06,146 --> 00:04:08,948 Everybody who knows this story knows her as kitty, 88 00:04:08,950 --> 00:04:10,683 But that wasn't really her name, wasn't it? 89 00:04:10,685 --> 00:04:12,151 - No, it was mary louise. 90 00:04:12,153 --> 00:04:14,152 - She was the baby of the family, 91 00:04:14,154 --> 00:04:16,422 Said her older sister, joan vandermolen. 92 00:04:16,424 --> 00:04:18,556 It was one of their brothers who came up with 93 00:04:18,558 --> 00:04:20,693 The nickname that stuck for life. 94 00:04:20,695 --> 00:04:22,761 How did she get to be known as kitty? 95 00:04:22,763 --> 00:04:24,963 - I think it was when brian went out to get her 96 00:04:24,965 --> 00:04:26,765 For dinner one night, or something, 97 00:04:26,767 --> 00:04:28,166 And he said, "here, kitty, kitty, kitty." 98 00:04:28,168 --> 00:04:29,968 And she came. 99 00:04:29,970 --> 00:04:31,636 - And then, when kitty was 3, 100 00:04:31,638 --> 00:04:34,572 Her dad left the family for another woman 101 00:04:34,574 --> 00:04:37,442 And as that little girl watched her mother struggle, 102 00:04:37,444 --> 00:04:40,445 She imagined a way she could do better. 103 00:04:40,447 --> 00:04:43,048 - Kitty grew up believing that she was gonna marry well 104 00:04:43,050 --> 00:04:44,450 And have household help. 105 00:04:44,452 --> 00:04:45,917 - How would she know such a thing? 106 00:04:45,919 --> 00:04:48,186 - I think this is probably what my mother had 107 00:04:48,188 --> 00:04:51,323 Maybe wanted for herself and never got. 108 00:04:51,325 --> 00:04:53,325 - Kitty was pretty. 109 00:04:53,327 --> 00:04:56,461 In 1962, she was crowned miss oak lawn. 110 00:04:56,463 --> 00:04:57,797 "you should be in show business," 111 00:04:57,799 --> 00:04:59,064 Her mother told her, 112 00:04:59,066 --> 00:05:01,000 So kitty studied radio and television 113 00:05:01,002 --> 00:05:03,068 At southern illinois university. 114 00:05:03,070 --> 00:05:05,604 Was that wrapped up in the whole idea 115 00:05:05,606 --> 00:05:07,339 Of if you're in that field 116 00:05:07,341 --> 00:05:09,140 You're more likely to meet a successful man? 117 00:05:09,142 --> 00:05:10,942 - Yes, yup, absolutely. 118 00:05:10,944 --> 00:05:13,279 - In college, she met a bundle of ambition 119 00:05:13,281 --> 00:05:15,213 Named jose menendez. 120 00:05:15,215 --> 00:05:19,452 He had fled communist cuba at 16 with bold dreams 121 00:05:19,454 --> 00:05:21,586 Of striking it big in business. 122 00:05:21,588 --> 00:05:24,422 Just the kind of man kitty was searching for, 123 00:05:24,424 --> 00:05:27,092 And so they married in 1963. 124 00:05:27,094 --> 00:05:29,494 - They were stars in-in our family, 125 00:05:29,496 --> 00:05:30,762 Kitty and jose. 126 00:05:30,764 --> 00:05:32,964 - Diane hernandez was kitty's niece 127 00:05:32,966 --> 00:05:35,433 And lived with kitty and jose for a few years. 128 00:05:35,435 --> 00:05:37,369 - I bet you idolized kitty. - Oh, I did, 129 00:05:37,371 --> 00:05:38,636 From the very beginning, 130 00:05:38,638 --> 00:05:41,907 And I was known as the daughter kitty never had. 131 00:05:41,909 --> 00:05:44,042 - Of course, as the world would come to know, 132 00:05:44,044 --> 00:05:46,978 Kitty and jose had sons, 133 00:05:46,980 --> 00:05:49,180 Lyle and erik. 134 00:05:49,182 --> 00:05:51,383 Did they seem to get along? Did they like each other? 135 00:05:51,385 --> 00:05:53,251 - Oh, yeah, absolutely. - Very close? 136 00:05:53,253 --> 00:05:55,855 - Yeah, I think erik depended on lyle a lot. 137 00:05:55,857 --> 00:05:57,723 - Erik was quite introverted. 138 00:05:57,725 --> 00:06:00,191 - Alan anderson was kitty's nephew. 139 00:06:00,193 --> 00:06:03,261 He spent a couple of summers with the menendez family 140 00:06:03,263 --> 00:06:04,662 And bonded with lyle. 141 00:06:04,664 --> 00:06:06,799 - He was a, um, mischievous boy, 142 00:06:06,801 --> 00:06:08,066 To say the least. 143 00:06:08,068 --> 00:06:10,401 He liked to smile and laugh and giggle. 144 00:06:10,403 --> 00:06:12,203 Oh, he loved to laugh and giggle. 145 00:06:12,205 --> 00:06:15,206 - But what the menendez brothers did most, said alan, 146 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:18,678 Was practice and practice and practice 147 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,845 - Jose wanted his kids to be the best 148 00:06:20,847 --> 00:06:23,616 And especially in sports, I noticed immediately. 149 00:06:23,618 --> 00:06:27,018 - Swimming, soccer, tennis. 150 00:06:27,020 --> 00:06:29,754 Jose pushed his sons to excel at everything 151 00:06:29,756 --> 00:06:32,557 As his own career skyrocketed. 152 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:36,495 In the '70s, jose was the general manager at hertz 153 00:06:36,497 --> 00:06:38,497 And impressed his sons 154 00:06:38,499 --> 00:06:41,366 By bringing the company's famous spokesman, 155 00:06:41,368 --> 00:06:43,768 O.J. Simpson, home to dinner. 156 00:06:43,770 --> 00:06:46,304 - Jose was of course living the american dream, 157 00:06:46,306 --> 00:06:48,907 And he wanted his boys to continue that american dream 158 00:06:48,909 --> 00:06:52,110 That he had set forth for not only himself but for his family. 159 00:06:52,112 --> 00:06:54,445 - In 1986, jose took a job 160 00:06:54,447 --> 00:06:56,848 With carolco pictures in los angeles, 161 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:58,917 The company that produced mega hits 162 00:06:58,919 --> 00:07:02,588 Like "basic instinct" and the "rambo" series. 163 00:07:02,590 --> 00:07:06,491 Carolco had just bought a video distribution company 164 00:07:06,493 --> 00:07:09,194 From a man named noel bloom, 165 00:07:09,196 --> 00:07:11,830 And they gave jose the job of running it. 166 00:07:11,832 --> 00:07:14,867 - So we think 1989 will be a tremendous year. 167 00:07:14,869 --> 00:07:17,869 Think we'll be very happy with the growth of the company. 168 00:07:17,871 --> 00:07:21,740 - That was the year, 1989, when robert rand, 169 00:07:21,742 --> 00:07:23,809 Then a reporter for "the miami herald," 170 00:07:23,811 --> 00:07:25,811 Went to las vegas to cover a trade show 171 00:07:25,813 --> 00:07:27,812 For the home video business 172 00:07:27,814 --> 00:07:30,815 And happened to meet jose menendez. 173 00:07:30,817 --> 00:07:32,417 What was your impression of the guy? 174 00:07:32,419 --> 00:07:33,952 - Talked to him for maybe two or three minutes. 175 00:07:33,954 --> 00:07:36,221 He seemed professional, dynamic. 176 00:07:36,223 --> 00:07:39,624 - A high-powered career, a beautiful family, 177 00:07:39,626 --> 00:07:42,227 And finally, the one missing piece 178 00:07:42,229 --> 00:07:45,597 Of jose's american dream, the perfect home. 179 00:07:45,599 --> 00:07:48,400 Jose moved his family from calabasas, 180 00:07:48,402 --> 00:07:49,568 Then pre-kardashian 181 00:07:49,570 --> 00:07:52,637 In the relatively unknown enclave outside of los angeles, 182 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:54,706 To a more tony address. 183 00:07:54,708 --> 00:07:58,042 Joan was with her sister the day the realtor called kitty. 184 00:07:58,044 --> 00:08:00,178 - They had accepted jose's offer 185 00:08:00,180 --> 00:08:02,447 And, "kitty, you've got your zip code." 186 00:08:02,449 --> 00:08:05,517 And that made her so happy. 187 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:07,118 - 90210. 188 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:08,920 - Mm-hmm, absolutely. 189 00:08:08,922 --> 00:08:13,525 - 722 north elm drive, a 6-bedroom 190 00:08:13,527 --> 00:08:15,994 Mediaterranean style home, swimming pool, 191 00:08:15,996 --> 00:08:17,529 Guest house, tennis court. 192 00:08:17,531 --> 00:08:20,932 Elton john once lived in this very house, 193 00:08:20,934 --> 00:08:25,670 So did a saudi prince, and even prince himself. 194 00:08:25,672 --> 00:08:29,608 By August 1989, jose had truly made it. 195 00:08:29,610 --> 00:08:32,543 Now to ensure his sons did, too. 196 00:08:32,545 --> 00:08:35,680 By then, lyle was a student at princeton. 197 00:08:35,682 --> 00:08:38,883 Younger brother erik was going to ucla in the fall, 198 00:08:38,885 --> 00:08:40,685 So perfect. 199 00:08:40,687 --> 00:08:43,955 So why did diane feel this way? 200 00:08:43,957 --> 00:08:46,424 - I said, "well, I know this sounds crazy, 201 00:08:46,426 --> 00:08:48,493 But unless I am crazy, 202 00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:50,696 Somebody who's really close to me 203 00:08:50,698 --> 00:08:53,232 Is gonna die, and it's gonna be horrible." 204 00:08:53,234 --> 00:08:54,832 - Horrible? 205 00:08:54,834 --> 00:08:57,035 That it certainly was. 206 00:09:02,509 --> 00:09:03,608 - Coming up... 207 00:09:03,610 --> 00:09:06,045 Something chilling in the den. 208 00:09:06,047 --> 00:09:07,312 - The first thing I noticed 209 00:09:07,314 --> 00:09:10,716 Was jose menendez seated on the couch. 210 00:09:10,718 --> 00:09:12,517 - It was grotesque what happened. 211 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:15,053 - Questions from the very beginning. 212 00:09:15,055 --> 00:09:16,587 - We didn't see any shotgun shells. 213 00:09:16,589 --> 00:09:17,790 - What did that say to you? 214 00:09:17,792 --> 00:09:19,924 - Somebody collected the shotgun shells. 215 00:09:19,926 --> 00:09:22,927 Somebody that didn't want, uh, fingerprints, 216 00:09:22,929 --> 00:09:24,162 Uh, on the shotgun shells. 217 00:09:24,164 --> 00:09:24,228 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 218 00:09:24,396 --> 00:09:37,342 ♪♪ 219 00:09:37,344 --> 00:09:40,745 - It was August 20th, 1989, just before midnight. 220 00:09:40,747 --> 00:09:43,081 A 9-1-1 operator picked up a call 221 00:09:43,083 --> 00:09:45,117 From an apparently hysterical young man. 222 00:09:45,119 --> 00:09:48,487 His name was lyle menendez. 223 00:10:07,174 --> 00:10:10,575 - Les zoeller was a detective back then, 224 00:10:10,577 --> 00:10:13,177 One of a grand total of two detectives 225 00:10:13,179 --> 00:10:14,912 In the beverly hills police department 226 00:10:14,914 --> 00:10:16,381 Who worked homicides. 227 00:10:16,383 --> 00:10:19,851 How many murders occurred in, uh, beverly hills 228 00:10:19,853 --> 00:10:20,786 In those days? 229 00:10:20,788 --> 00:10:23,121 - Eh, in those days approximately two a year. 230 00:10:23,123 --> 00:10:25,056 - Detective zoeller was asleep 231 00:10:25,058 --> 00:10:28,326 That August night when his boss called. 232 00:10:28,328 --> 00:10:31,330 - And he said, "come on in, we've had a murder." 233 00:10:31,332 --> 00:10:34,866 And I asked him for some information, 234 00:10:34,868 --> 00:10:38,537 And he said, uh, he gave me the address of 722 north elm. 235 00:10:38,539 --> 00:10:42,340 - Zoeller drove to the mansion, walked inside. 236 00:10:42,342 --> 00:10:45,878 - It was eerily quiet, 237 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:51,015 And when I went into the den library, 238 00:10:51,017 --> 00:10:52,216 First thing I noticed 239 00:10:52,218 --> 00:10:55,687 Was jose menendez seated on the couch. 240 00:10:55,689 --> 00:10:59,824 He was, uh, slumped to one side, his head was to the one side. 241 00:10:59,826 --> 00:11:02,760 - It was bad, very bad. 242 00:11:02,762 --> 00:11:06,030 - But I could immediately tell that his face was disfigured 243 00:11:06,032 --> 00:11:08,099 From the shotgun blast that he took 244 00:11:08,101 --> 00:11:09,567 To the back of the head. 245 00:11:09,569 --> 00:11:11,102 He was wearing shorts, 246 00:11:11,104 --> 00:11:14,305 And he had a shotgun blast to his thigh, 247 00:11:14,307 --> 00:11:17,241 Blood soaked all the way down to the white couch. 248 00:11:17,243 --> 00:11:18,711 - Hmm. 249 00:11:18,713 --> 00:11:20,179 - And then I noticed his wife, kitty, 250 00:11:20,181 --> 00:11:22,513 At his feet on the floor. 251 00:11:22,515 --> 00:11:24,984 - She was curled into a fetal position, 252 00:11:24,986 --> 00:11:28,453 And like her husband, had been shot many times, 253 00:11:28,455 --> 00:11:30,188 Several times near her knee. 254 00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:31,856 And most horribly, 255 00:11:31,858 --> 00:11:35,193 Kitty was shot point blank in the face. 256 00:11:35,195 --> 00:11:37,462 - Shotgun killings are very messy, 257 00:11:37,464 --> 00:11:40,332 And there were brains and blood everywhere. 258 00:11:40,334 --> 00:11:44,402 - Back then, pamela bozanich was an l.A. County prosecutor 259 00:11:44,404 --> 00:11:46,471 In the organized crime unit, 260 00:11:46,473 --> 00:11:49,141 But nothing prepared her for this. 261 00:11:49,143 --> 00:11:52,543 Jose and kitty had been riddled with 15 shots. 262 00:11:52,545 --> 00:11:56,214 One image in particular lives with her still. 263 00:11:56,216 --> 00:11:59,350 - There was a contact wound on kitty menendez's face. 264 00:11:59,352 --> 00:12:01,020 It blew out her eye. 265 00:12:01,022 --> 00:12:03,022 I mean, it was grotesque what happened to her. 266 00:12:03,024 --> 00:12:06,090 - To investigators it appeared jose and kitty 267 00:12:06,092 --> 00:12:07,759 Had been relaxing in the den. 268 00:12:07,761 --> 00:12:10,027 An empty bowl of cream and berries 269 00:12:10,029 --> 00:12:13,431 And erik's ucla paperwork were on the coffee table. 270 00:12:13,433 --> 00:12:15,500 The television set was on. 271 00:12:15,502 --> 00:12:18,103 There was no indication of a break-in, 272 00:12:18,105 --> 00:12:21,573 But something did stand out to detective zoeller. 273 00:12:21,575 --> 00:12:23,574 - We didn't see any shotgun shells. 274 00:12:23,576 --> 00:12:25,109 - What did that say to you? 275 00:12:25,111 --> 00:12:27,178 - Somebody collected the shotgun shells. 276 00:12:27,180 --> 00:12:29,514 - But who does a thing like that if they've got 277 00:12:29,516 --> 00:12:31,516 A messy crime scene of that sort? 278 00:12:31,518 --> 00:12:34,319 - Somebody that didn't want, uh, fingerprints 279 00:12:34,321 --> 00:12:37,655 On the shotgun shells, the only thing I could think of. 280 00:12:37,657 --> 00:12:39,992 - While investigators examined the crime scene, 281 00:12:39,994 --> 00:12:43,895 Lyle menendez, then 21, and erik, 18, 282 00:12:43,897 --> 00:12:46,197 Went to the station to speak to police. 283 00:12:46,199 --> 00:12:47,732 - The brothers said they were in and out 284 00:12:47,734 --> 00:12:49,000 Throughout the day, 285 00:12:49,002 --> 00:12:51,669 And then as evening approached they decided 286 00:12:51,671 --> 00:12:53,338 That they wanted to go to the movies. 287 00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:56,474 They wanted to see a james bond movie, 288 00:12:56,476 --> 00:13:00,546 But it was sold out so they saw the batman movie, 289 00:13:00,548 --> 00:13:02,813 Which, uh, they had both seen before. 290 00:13:02,815 --> 00:13:03,748 - Hmm. 291 00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:05,483 - So they decided to see that again. 292 00:13:05,485 --> 00:13:06,884 - Curious. 293 00:13:06,886 --> 00:13:09,287 -After the movie, they told detectives, 294 00:13:09,289 --> 00:13:11,155 They planned to meet a friend for a drink 295 00:13:11,157 --> 00:13:12,757 At the cheesecake factory, 296 00:13:12,759 --> 00:13:14,126 But they had to go back to the house 297 00:13:14,128 --> 00:13:16,527 To pick up erik's fake id. 298 00:13:16,529 --> 00:13:18,496 And when they walked in, they said, 299 00:13:18,498 --> 00:13:22,166 They saw a haze in the air, smelled gunpowder smoke, 300 00:13:22,168 --> 00:13:25,303 Went into the den, and then dialed 9-1-1. 301 00:13:28,308 --> 00:13:29,974 - The news spread quickly. 302 00:13:29,976 --> 00:13:33,444 - I got a phone call from my brother. 303 00:13:33,446 --> 00:13:35,313 And I remember putting the phone down on the table 304 00:13:35,315 --> 00:13:37,982 And walking around the house screaming. 305 00:13:37,984 --> 00:13:41,452 - Reporter robert rand's phone also rang. 306 00:13:41,454 --> 00:13:44,055 It was a friend who had attended the las vegas trade show 307 00:13:44,057 --> 00:13:45,857 With him ten days earlier. 308 00:13:45,859 --> 00:13:48,259 - The friend had said, "hey, do you remember that guy, 309 00:13:48,261 --> 00:13:51,729 Jose menendez, uh, you know, that you met briefly last week?" 310 00:13:51,731 --> 00:13:53,398 And I said, "sure." 311 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,267 And he said, "well, he and his wife 312 00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:57,402 Were blown away last night in beverly hills." 313 00:13:57,404 --> 00:14:01,072 - Now that, thought rand, was a story tailor-made 314 00:14:01,074 --> 00:14:03,541 For the miami community he was writing for. 315 00:14:03,543 --> 00:14:07,478 A rags to riches story, capped by murder. 316 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,283 He worked the phones and soon met up with jose's sister, 317 00:14:11,285 --> 00:14:12,618 Who told him... 318 00:14:12,620 --> 00:14:14,485 - You know, the family was so close. 319 00:14:14,487 --> 00:14:16,821 They were loving, they did everything together. 320 00:14:16,823 --> 00:14:19,290 She said, "you have to interview erik and lyle." 321 00:14:19,292 --> 00:14:20,359 And I said, "of course, 322 00:14:20,361 --> 00:14:22,159 I want to interview erik and lyle." 323 00:14:22,161 --> 00:14:23,295 - As he would find, 324 00:14:23,297 --> 00:14:25,831 Getting to the brothers was not so easy, 325 00:14:25,833 --> 00:14:28,634 But then they'd just lost their parents. 326 00:14:28,636 --> 00:14:32,371 - Lyle and erik menendez were the grieving sons. 327 00:14:32,373 --> 00:14:34,171 - Alan abrahamson 328 00:14:34,173 --> 00:14:36,941 Is a journalism professor at usc. 329 00:14:36,943 --> 00:14:38,409 Back in 1989, 330 00:14:38,411 --> 00:14:41,112 He was a reporter for "the l.A. Times." 331 00:14:41,114 --> 00:14:44,448 - Nobody quite knew who had killed the parents. 332 00:14:44,450 --> 00:14:46,917 Was it because of jose's position in business? 333 00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:49,387 Had he been taken out by the mob? 334 00:14:49,389 --> 00:14:53,791 - After all, both jose and kitty had been shot in the knees. 335 00:14:53,793 --> 00:14:55,726 A mafia signature perhaps? 336 00:14:55,728 --> 00:14:58,397 And then there was the company jose was running. 337 00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:01,200 Live entertainment distributed all kinds of movies, 338 00:15:01,202 --> 00:15:03,267 Including children's movies, 339 00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:06,538 But it got its start in porn. 340 00:15:06,540 --> 00:15:09,006 - A lot of pornography is organized crime backed 341 00:15:09,008 --> 00:15:11,876 'cause it's a great way to make a lot of money 342 00:15:11,878 --> 00:15:15,214 In an industry that's not, you know, very well regarded. 343 00:15:15,216 --> 00:15:19,016 - And there was actually a-a homicide 344 00:15:19,018 --> 00:15:20,418 In the valley 345 00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:23,220 A few weeks before they were murdered, 346 00:15:23,222 --> 00:15:27,025 And jose mentioned to his sons, you know, 347 00:15:27,027 --> 00:15:28,092 "this is what happens. 348 00:15:28,094 --> 00:15:30,562 This guy was into the pornography business, 349 00:15:30,564 --> 00:15:32,763 And he was murdered." 350 00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:35,033 - Plus, jose was known to be aggressive 351 00:15:35,035 --> 00:15:36,367 When it came to business, 352 00:15:36,369 --> 00:15:39,905 And investigators found two rifles in his bedroom. 353 00:15:39,907 --> 00:15:43,140 Was jose worried someone might come after him? 354 00:15:43,142 --> 00:15:46,577 Could lyle and erik be next? 355 00:15:46,579 --> 00:15:48,379 The brothers hired bodyguards. 356 00:15:48,381 --> 00:15:50,047 And in an interview, 357 00:15:50,049 --> 00:15:52,718 Erik menendez voiced his suspicion. 358 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,126 - Noel bloom, 359 00:16:02,128 --> 00:16:05,663 The founder of the company jose was running 360 00:16:05,665 --> 00:16:09,600 And an unapologetic distributor of adult entertainment. 361 00:16:09,602 --> 00:16:11,802 The menendez boys were not alone 362 00:16:11,804 --> 00:16:16,207 In their suspicion about noel bloom. 363 00:16:16,209 --> 00:16:17,608 - Coming up... 364 00:16:17,610 --> 00:16:19,610 Rivals at the office, 365 00:16:19,612 --> 00:16:21,879 Was that a motive for murder? 366 00:16:21,881 --> 00:16:23,415 - You didn't kill jose menendez? 367 00:16:23,417 --> 00:16:25,083 - Ugh, absolutely not. 368 00:16:25,085 --> 00:16:28,219 - Noel bloom speaks then and now. 369 00:16:28,221 --> 00:16:30,421 - Were you sort of day-by-day waiting for somebody to call you 370 00:16:30,423 --> 00:16:31,756 And you're gonna be taken in and put in handcuffs? 371 00:16:31,758 --> 00:16:33,292 - Oh, yes. Yes. 372 00:16:33,294 --> 00:16:33,357 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 373 00:16:33,558 --> 00:16:44,301 ♪♪ 374 00:16:44,303 --> 00:16:47,172 - Kitty menendez shot this home video 375 00:16:47,174 --> 00:16:51,009 In August, 1989, capturing images 376 00:16:51,011 --> 00:16:53,778 Of what looked like a happy family. 377 00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:56,314 - Okay, wave goodbye, everybody! 378 00:16:56,316 --> 00:16:58,182 - Twelve days later, 379 00:16:58,184 --> 00:16:59,451 Kitty and her husband's murders 380 00:16:59,453 --> 00:17:01,987 Were front page news. 381 00:17:01,989 --> 00:17:03,988 - It was a big story from the get go 382 00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:07,391 Because it happened in beverly hills, california. 383 00:17:07,393 --> 00:17:10,395 - The big story became a big problem 384 00:17:10,397 --> 00:17:12,196 For carolco pictures. 385 00:17:12,198 --> 00:17:14,665 - The company was getting beaten up in the media 386 00:17:14,667 --> 00:17:16,067 Because all the media stories were, 387 00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:17,336 "this was a mafia hit." 388 00:17:17,338 --> 00:17:18,936 Somehow related to shady dealings 389 00:17:18,938 --> 00:17:20,604 That this company was doing. 390 00:17:20,606 --> 00:17:22,606 - Carolco hired a prominent publicist 391 00:17:22,608 --> 00:17:24,608 To help calm the media storm. 392 00:17:24,610 --> 00:17:27,945 Sylvester stallone spoke warmly of jose. 393 00:17:27,947 --> 00:17:30,681 - He was a-a true cornerstone of the, uh, 394 00:17:30,683 --> 00:17:32,683 Of the-- this company, which I love. 395 00:17:32,685 --> 00:17:35,087 - And jose's memorial service was held 396 00:17:35,089 --> 00:17:37,488 At the director's guild of america headquarters 397 00:17:37,490 --> 00:17:38,889 On sunset boulevard, 398 00:17:38,891 --> 00:17:41,025 All of which might've led people to believe 399 00:17:41,027 --> 00:17:43,895 He was a beloved hollywood insider. 400 00:17:43,897 --> 00:17:45,696 - But the reality was, 401 00:17:45,698 --> 00:17:47,097 Jose menendez was really not known 402 00:17:47,099 --> 00:17:48,632 In the hollywood community at all 403 00:17:48,634 --> 00:17:50,367 And most of the people at this memorial 404 00:17:50,369 --> 00:17:53,504 Probably had never heard of him. 405 00:17:53,506 --> 00:17:56,173 - Lyle and erik arrived late to the service 406 00:17:56,175 --> 00:17:58,242 In a chauffeured limousine. 407 00:17:58,244 --> 00:17:59,844 They had spent the night before 408 00:17:59,846 --> 00:18:02,580 In the ultra chic hotel bel-air. 409 00:18:02,582 --> 00:18:04,382 - How'd they behave when they were there? 410 00:18:04,384 --> 00:18:07,386 - Lyle menendez was, uh, very cool, calm, 411 00:18:07,388 --> 00:18:08,586 And collected. 412 00:18:08,588 --> 00:18:11,188 - Kitty's sister, joan, was at the memorial, too, 413 00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:14,458 And heard something disturbing about jose. 414 00:18:14,460 --> 00:18:16,661 - Several men that worked with jose 415 00:18:16,663 --> 00:18:20,397 Talked to me at that memorial service 416 00:18:20,399 --> 00:18:23,067 And told me how... 417 00:18:23,069 --> 00:18:27,271 He loved to humiliate other men. 418 00:18:27,273 --> 00:18:28,406 - Pretty shocking thing to hear 419 00:18:28,408 --> 00:18:30,341 At somebody's memorial service, isn't it? 420 00:18:30,343 --> 00:18:31,543 - Mm-hmm. 421 00:18:31,545 --> 00:18:34,145 Yeah, not very memorial. 422 00:18:34,147 --> 00:18:36,814 - So, jose had made enemies. 423 00:18:36,816 --> 00:18:38,015 The brothers confirmed it 424 00:18:38,017 --> 00:18:40,352 And knew where to point the finger. 425 00:18:40,354 --> 00:18:43,021 - They indicated that their father was involved 426 00:18:43,023 --> 00:18:46,757 In some shady business contacts, 427 00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:48,360 And one in particular 428 00:18:48,362 --> 00:18:50,828 Was a gentleman by the name of noel bloom. 429 00:18:50,830 --> 00:18:52,763 - That name again. 430 00:18:52,765 --> 00:18:54,965 Noel bloom had founded the company 431 00:18:54,967 --> 00:18:57,201 That became known as live entertainment, 432 00:18:57,203 --> 00:19:01,440 And then wound up working uncomfortably with jose. 433 00:19:01,442 --> 00:19:03,374 - They bickered about a lot of things. 434 00:19:03,376 --> 00:19:05,442 - But mostly it was because of the pornography. 435 00:19:05,444 --> 00:19:07,912 Jose didn't like that at all. 436 00:19:07,914 --> 00:19:10,581 - Did it seem to you that there was a motive there? 437 00:19:10,583 --> 00:19:12,049 - Possible. 438 00:19:12,051 --> 00:19:16,454 - We found this tape of bloom deep in the nbc archives. 439 00:19:16,456 --> 00:19:18,856 - You didn't kill jose menendez? 440 00:19:18,858 --> 00:19:20,458 - Ugh, absolutely not. 441 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:23,994 - And wondered what he had to say all these years later. 442 00:19:23,996 --> 00:19:25,529 What are you doing with yourself now? 443 00:19:25,531 --> 00:19:28,466 - Well, I'm, uh, retired. [chuckling] 444 00:19:28,468 --> 00:19:30,135 Kinda like forced retirement. 445 00:19:30,137 --> 00:19:32,570 - Oh, but your resume-- - yeah. 446 00:19:32,572 --> 00:19:34,071 - Your resume is special. 447 00:19:34,073 --> 00:19:37,608 - Yeah, my resume, uh, could scare people. 448 00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:41,812 - Noel bloom, known for years to law enforcement authorities 449 00:19:41,814 --> 00:19:44,282 As a kingpin in the porn trade 450 00:19:44,284 --> 00:19:47,018 With alleged ties to east coast mobsters. 451 00:19:47,020 --> 00:19:48,152 - Why would they say 452 00:19:48,154 --> 00:19:49,954 You were involved with organized crime? 453 00:19:49,956 --> 00:19:52,757 - Because people had a perception that 454 00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:55,894 People in the adult business were in organized crime, 455 00:19:55,896 --> 00:19:57,027 Which is totally not true. 456 00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:59,297 At least, I had-- I wasn't in-- 457 00:19:59,299 --> 00:20:01,231 - Were some of the people you associated with members? 458 00:20:01,233 --> 00:20:03,834 - There was a couple companies back in new york that, uh, 459 00:20:03,836 --> 00:20:05,436 I believe was. 460 00:20:05,438 --> 00:20:06,837 - In the 1970s, 461 00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:08,974 Bloom was one of the biggest porn producers 462 00:20:08,976 --> 00:20:10,641 And distributors in the country. 463 00:20:10,643 --> 00:20:12,777 Then he made an unlikely turn 464 00:20:12,779 --> 00:20:15,514 To distributing children's programming-- 465 00:20:15,516 --> 00:20:17,581 "care bears" for example. 466 00:20:17,583 --> 00:20:19,049 Along the way 467 00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:22,519 You encountered this guy jose menendez. 468 00:20:22,521 --> 00:20:24,321 - Unfortunately. 469 00:20:24,323 --> 00:20:25,856 - What was he like in the office? 470 00:20:25,858 --> 00:20:30,661 - Jose could be very sweet, smile at you, uh, 471 00:20:30,663 --> 00:20:32,730 Even charming. - Mm-hmm. 472 00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:34,065 - But he was very ruthless. 473 00:20:34,067 --> 00:20:36,934 He would scream at people, uh, if he fired-- 474 00:20:36,936 --> 00:20:38,669 Brought somebody in his office and fired 'em, 475 00:20:38,671 --> 00:20:40,205 Even though he had no business doing so. 476 00:20:40,207 --> 00:20:42,406 You would hear him laughing like it was a big joke. 477 00:20:42,408 --> 00:20:45,409 - Jose fought with his own family, too, 478 00:20:45,411 --> 00:20:46,611 Said noel bloom. 479 00:20:46,613 --> 00:20:48,480 - I-I met kitty several times. 480 00:20:48,482 --> 00:20:50,347 She would sometimes go into his office 481 00:20:50,349 --> 00:20:52,816 And yellin' and screamin' and hollerin'. 482 00:20:52,818 --> 00:20:54,151 I mean, really loud. 483 00:20:54,153 --> 00:20:55,285 - Oh, so they'd argue a lot? 484 00:20:55,287 --> 00:20:56,221 - Oh, yeah, a lot. 485 00:20:56,223 --> 00:20:58,289 And I think a lot of it was about the kids. 486 00:20:58,291 --> 00:21:00,024 - What was your impression of them? 487 00:21:00,026 --> 00:21:01,291 - Yeah, they were kinda quiet. 488 00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:02,760 They weren't that friendly, 489 00:21:02,762 --> 00:21:04,762 But it seemed like they were a bit troubled. 490 00:21:04,764 --> 00:21:06,430 You know, I know they were afraid of him. 491 00:21:06,432 --> 00:21:09,967 - Afraid of their father, jose. 492 00:21:09,969 --> 00:21:13,171 - I saw him just stare them down a couple of times. 493 00:21:13,173 --> 00:21:15,574 - But after jose was murdered, 494 00:21:15,576 --> 00:21:19,510 Lyle and erik seemed to be afraid of noel bloom. 495 00:21:19,512 --> 00:21:20,711 They told police 496 00:21:20,713 --> 00:21:22,846 They thought bloom may have killed their parents 497 00:21:22,848 --> 00:21:25,182 And might wanna kill them, too. 498 00:21:25,184 --> 00:21:29,387 Bloom had been arrested before on obscenity charges, 499 00:21:29,389 --> 00:21:30,522 But never convicted. 500 00:21:30,524 --> 00:21:32,856 Still, with the brother's public accusation, 501 00:21:32,858 --> 00:21:34,125 He was nervous. 502 00:21:34,127 --> 00:21:35,793 Were you sort of day-by-day waiting 503 00:21:35,795 --> 00:21:36,927 For somebody to call you, 504 00:21:36,929 --> 00:21:37,528 And you're gonna be taken in and put in handcuffs? 505 00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:38,996 - Oh, yes. Yes. 506 00:21:38,998 --> 00:21:40,931 - Oh, the cops would be calling, 507 00:21:40,933 --> 00:21:44,134 And the investigation would take a turn, 508 00:21:44,136 --> 00:21:46,704 One that no one expected. 509 00:21:49,676 --> 00:21:50,774 - Coming up... 510 00:21:50,776 --> 00:21:53,677 New questions about the case. 511 00:21:53,679 --> 00:21:55,080 - It wasn't an organized crime hit. 512 00:21:55,082 --> 00:21:57,948 - And about the grieving sons. 513 00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:59,283 - I was like, "wow!" 514 00:21:59,285 --> 00:22:01,585 The way he was spending money was very strange. 515 00:22:01,587 --> 00:22:02,887 - You begin to see a pattern here, 516 00:22:02,889 --> 00:22:05,089 And you begin to think of greed. 517 00:22:05,091 --> 00:22:16,767 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 518 00:22:16,769 --> 00:22:19,236 - Welcome back to "dateline: Secrets uncovered." 519 00:22:19,238 --> 00:22:20,504 I'm kate snow. 520 00:22:20,506 --> 00:22:23,241 Jose and kitty menendez were gunned down 521 00:22:23,243 --> 00:22:25,709 In the comfort of their beverly hills mansion. 522 00:22:25,711 --> 00:22:27,578 Their sons, lyle and erik, 523 00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:29,914 Pointed police to a potential suspect, 524 00:22:29,916 --> 00:22:31,849 Jose's business associate, 525 00:22:31,851 --> 00:22:34,785 A man who was rumored to have mob connections. 526 00:22:34,787 --> 00:22:38,389 The brothers said they were afraid they were targets, too. 527 00:22:38,391 --> 00:22:41,058 Now, the siblings were about to tell detectives 528 00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:44,462 About something else they secretly feared. 529 00:22:44,464 --> 00:22:45,796 Here's keith morrison 530 00:22:45,798 --> 00:22:50,602 With "unthinkable: The menendez murders." 531 00:22:50,604 --> 00:22:53,070 - In the weeks after the menendez murders, 532 00:22:53,072 --> 00:22:56,540 One name, one whispered suspicion-- 533 00:22:56,542 --> 00:22:59,276 Noel bloom. 534 00:22:59,278 --> 00:23:00,211 - I got a call from 535 00:23:00,213 --> 00:23:01,545 The beverly hills police department. 536 00:23:01,547 --> 00:23:04,148 They wanted to meet with me and ask me a few questions, 537 00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:05,550 And I said, "I've been waiting." 538 00:23:05,552 --> 00:23:09,020 - That meeting it turned out was about all it took. 539 00:23:09,022 --> 00:23:10,755 - He was very cooperative, 540 00:23:10,757 --> 00:23:14,158 And we couldn't determine that he had a motive at all. 541 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,828 - So, noel bloom was no longer a suspect. 542 00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:20,831 And the rumored mafia connection to the crime? 543 00:23:20,833 --> 00:23:24,368 Not a chance, said prosecutor pam bozanich. 544 00:23:24,370 --> 00:23:27,305 - The number of shots would tell you 545 00:23:27,307 --> 00:23:29,039 That it wasn't an organized crime hit. 546 00:23:29,041 --> 00:23:30,574 - Why do you say that? 547 00:23:30,576 --> 00:23:31,909 - Because they were torn apart. 548 00:23:31,911 --> 00:23:34,244 If you think about what the media portrays 549 00:23:34,246 --> 00:23:37,447 Or-or hollywood portrays as a mob hit, it would be-- 550 00:23:37,449 --> 00:23:38,782 - It's just a little hole in the back of the head. 551 00:23:38,784 --> 00:23:40,518 - Yeah, it'd be a little, like, .22 or a .38 552 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,986 To the back of the head. 553 00:23:42,988 --> 00:23:46,056 - But the knee cappings, the missing shell casings, 554 00:23:46,058 --> 00:23:47,859 To investigators those were signs 555 00:23:47,861 --> 00:23:50,995 It was staged to look like a mob hit. 556 00:23:50,997 --> 00:23:53,997 Hours after the murders, detective zoeller 557 00:23:53,999 --> 00:23:56,466 Looked at the scene, puzzled, 558 00:23:56,468 --> 00:23:58,469 And right around that time 559 00:23:58,471 --> 00:24:01,205 Lyle showed up at the house. 560 00:24:01,207 --> 00:24:04,808 - He said, "we wanna get our tennis equipment." 561 00:24:04,810 --> 00:24:07,945 And I said, "well, where is that?" 562 00:24:07,947 --> 00:24:09,947 He said, "it's in the-the library 563 00:24:09,949 --> 00:24:11,483 Where my parents were murdered." 564 00:24:11,485 --> 00:24:13,150 - What was their demeanor? 565 00:24:13,152 --> 00:24:15,152 - He was matter of fact 566 00:24:15,154 --> 00:24:19,089 And-and, uh, didn't seem very upset to me. 567 00:24:19,091 --> 00:24:22,359 - Then, zoeller learned somehing very odd. 568 00:24:22,361 --> 00:24:25,896 Lyle and erik went to the bank days after the murders, 569 00:24:25,898 --> 00:24:29,234 Looking for jose's safety deposit box, 570 00:24:29,236 --> 00:24:32,703 Trying to find the family will. 571 00:24:32,705 --> 00:24:34,838 - Did that surprise you that they would do it so soon? 572 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:35,973 - Oh, definitely. 573 00:24:35,975 --> 00:24:39,376 - So, why would the brothers worry about the will? 574 00:24:39,378 --> 00:24:41,079 Zoeller learned that 575 00:24:41,081 --> 00:24:43,714 Jose had threatened to disinherit them. 576 00:24:43,716 --> 00:24:46,184 Lyle had been caught cheating at princeton, 577 00:24:46,186 --> 00:24:48,319 Erik had fought with his father over tennis, 578 00:24:48,321 --> 00:24:50,855 But there was a bigger issue, too. 579 00:24:50,857 --> 00:24:54,324 - Well, in the first house they took the whole safe. 580 00:24:54,326 --> 00:24:56,594 The second house they got into the safe. 581 00:24:56,596 --> 00:24:59,663 - Lyle and erik had burglarized the homes 582 00:24:59,665 --> 00:25:01,398 Of their friend's wealthy parents. 583 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,001 One of the burglaries was in the exclusive community 584 00:25:04,003 --> 00:25:05,403 Of hidden hills. 585 00:25:05,405 --> 00:25:07,371 - Have you ever heard of such a thing before? 586 00:25:07,373 --> 00:25:09,873 - No, it was just because, "we can do it. 587 00:25:09,875 --> 00:25:11,675 Look what we can do." 588 00:25:11,677 --> 00:25:15,680 - At the time, jose hired a prominent criminal attorney 589 00:25:15,682 --> 00:25:18,483 Who arranged for the younger brother, erik, 590 00:25:18,485 --> 00:25:20,083 To take the fall. 591 00:25:20,085 --> 00:25:21,351 - Because he was a minor. 592 00:25:21,353 --> 00:25:23,822 Knowing that erik probably wouldn't get any jail time, 593 00:25:23,824 --> 00:25:26,758 And part of the disposition 594 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,226 Was that he contact a therapist. 595 00:25:29,228 --> 00:25:31,895 In comes jerry oziel. 596 00:25:31,897 --> 00:25:35,565 Dr. Jerome oziel; you'll want to remember that name. 597 00:25:35,567 --> 00:25:37,834 A beverly hills psychologist who specialized 598 00:25:37,836 --> 00:25:40,238 In phobias and sex therapy. 599 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,641 So, therapy and no jail time for the burglaries, 600 00:25:44,643 --> 00:25:47,211 But were they written out of the will? 601 00:25:47,213 --> 00:25:49,279 They finally did get hold of it 602 00:25:49,281 --> 00:25:53,583 And discovered jose hadn't disinherited them after all. 603 00:25:53,585 --> 00:25:57,589 So now, they stood to inherit the family's $14 million estate, 604 00:25:57,591 --> 00:26:00,658 And what the brothers did after the murders 605 00:26:00,660 --> 00:26:02,960 Shocked the whole country. 606 00:26:02,962 --> 00:26:06,063 - They were just spending, spending, spending. 607 00:26:06,065 --> 00:26:08,132 - Three rolex watches, 608 00:26:08,134 --> 00:26:11,868 A private tennis coach for erik, a porsche, 609 00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:15,205 Lyle even bought a chicken wings restaurant. 610 00:26:15,207 --> 00:26:16,740 - I love to shop, 611 00:26:16,742 --> 00:26:19,344 But I think that I might even wait a day or two. 612 00:26:19,346 --> 00:26:21,745 - Lyle went to visit his cousin, alan, in chicago 613 00:26:21,747 --> 00:26:23,013 After the murders. 614 00:26:23,015 --> 00:26:25,149 - He ordered some of the most expensive shirts 615 00:26:25,151 --> 00:26:26,417 I've ever seen in my life. 616 00:26:26,419 --> 00:26:28,352 I mean, he ordered some jewelry. 617 00:26:28,354 --> 00:26:31,488 He ordered these shoes, these expensive shoes, um, 618 00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:32,890 And I was like "wow!" 619 00:26:32,892 --> 00:26:36,226 The way he was spending money for me was very strange. 620 00:26:36,228 --> 00:26:38,495 - But, to other relatives, the spending 621 00:26:38,497 --> 00:26:41,965 Was just lyle and erik doing what they always did. 622 00:26:41,967 --> 00:26:44,901 Lyle was grieving, said cousin diane. 623 00:26:44,903 --> 00:26:46,971 - People would ask, you know. 624 00:26:46,973 --> 00:26:48,905 People were like, "what's he doing?" 625 00:26:48,907 --> 00:26:50,374 And I would defend him and say, 626 00:26:50,376 --> 00:26:52,242 "well, everybody reacts differently 627 00:26:52,244 --> 00:26:53,511 When somebody dies. 628 00:26:53,513 --> 00:26:56,314 This is just his way of coping, I guess." 629 00:26:56,316 --> 00:26:59,383 - Their casual behavior after the murders, 630 00:26:59,385 --> 00:27:02,452 The hunt for the will, the spending spree, 631 00:27:02,454 --> 00:27:05,922 None of it was criminal, but it certainly caught 632 00:27:05,924 --> 00:27:07,791 The attention of the prosecutor. 633 00:27:07,793 --> 00:27:09,060 - You begin to see a pattern here, 634 00:27:09,062 --> 00:27:10,928 And you begin to think of greed. 635 00:27:10,930 --> 00:27:12,329 - But to police, 636 00:27:12,331 --> 00:27:14,732 Lyle and erik kept repeating the same story 637 00:27:14,734 --> 00:27:16,667 They told the cops the night of the murders. 638 00:27:16,669 --> 00:27:19,203 They had no idea what happened. 639 00:27:19,205 --> 00:27:21,605 - Were they believable in those conversations, 640 00:27:21,607 --> 00:27:23,373 That you recall? - Yes. 641 00:27:23,375 --> 00:27:25,944 - So, they didn't seem to be lying or obfuscating or-- 642 00:27:25,946 --> 00:27:28,545 - No, they answered our questions willingly. 643 00:27:28,547 --> 00:27:32,215 - So, maybe they were spoiled and self-centered, 644 00:27:32,217 --> 00:27:33,884 But it was a long way 645 00:27:33,886 --> 00:27:36,153 From that to killing their parents, 646 00:27:36,155 --> 00:27:39,156 Except another interview was coming, 647 00:27:39,158 --> 00:27:42,493 One that would reveal so much more. 648 00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:48,899 - A son opens up to a reporter and opens the door 649 00:27:48,901 --> 00:27:51,568 To a disturbing possibility. 650 00:27:51,570 --> 00:27:52,870 Coming up... 651 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,243 - An emotional erik menendez speaks out about his father, 652 00:27:59,245 --> 00:28:02,245 His family, and a killer script. 653 00:28:02,247 --> 00:28:04,115 - That story was about a young man 654 00:28:04,117 --> 00:28:07,852 Who murders his parents and inherits $157 million. 655 00:28:07,854 --> 00:28:07,918 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 656 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:19,930 ♪♪ 657 00:28:19,932 --> 00:28:22,199 - Report robert rand 658 00:28:22,201 --> 00:28:24,801 Had been working the menendez story hard. 659 00:28:24,803 --> 00:28:27,671 He was writing a biography of jose menendez, 660 00:28:27,673 --> 00:28:29,607 But he couldn't complete it without talking 661 00:28:29,609 --> 00:28:33,343 To two people, jose's sons, lyle and erik. 662 00:28:33,345 --> 00:28:35,946 The brothers had blown him off for several weeks, 663 00:28:35,948 --> 00:28:39,549 But finally, on October 20th, 1989, 664 00:28:39,551 --> 00:28:41,551 Exactly two months after the murders, 665 00:28:41,553 --> 00:28:43,753 Rand got his shot. 666 00:28:43,755 --> 00:28:45,288 - I showed up at the menendez mansion 667 00:28:45,290 --> 00:28:46,623 At 3:00 in the afternoon 668 00:28:46,625 --> 00:28:50,160 And, uh, a young woman in her 20s answered the door. 669 00:28:50,162 --> 00:28:51,629 And she said, "oh, erik and lyle 670 00:28:51,631 --> 00:28:52,896 Are out playing tennis. 671 00:28:52,898 --> 00:28:55,031 Uh, they-they'll be back at some point." 672 00:28:55,033 --> 00:28:57,769 The woman invited rand in to tour the house. 673 00:28:57,771 --> 00:29:00,504 - And immediately in front of me is the room, 674 00:29:00,506 --> 00:29:03,507 The room where jose and kitty menendez were killed. 675 00:29:03,509 --> 00:29:07,377 And, um, I had-- I had a chill up my spine. 676 00:29:07,379 --> 00:29:09,112 I felt creeped out. 677 00:29:09,114 --> 00:29:10,714 He waited. 678 00:29:10,716 --> 00:29:13,183 Uh, they arrived, eventually. 679 00:29:13,185 --> 00:29:15,119 - Erik and lyle came bouncing in the house 680 00:29:15,121 --> 00:29:17,522 Wearing tennis whites and looking tan. 681 00:29:17,524 --> 00:29:19,056 They were laughing and joking. 682 00:29:19,058 --> 00:29:20,123 I'm not-- - as if nothing had happened. 683 00:29:20,125 --> 00:29:21,259 - As if nothing had happened. 684 00:29:21,261 --> 00:29:22,659 And I'm kinda torn up inside. 685 00:29:22,661 --> 00:29:24,194 I'm-I'm just thinking to myself, 686 00:29:24,196 --> 00:29:25,729 "I wouldn't be anywhere near this house 687 00:29:25,731 --> 00:29:27,865 If my parents had been killed here." 688 00:29:27,867 --> 00:29:29,633 - Rand pulled out his tape recorder 689 00:29:29,635 --> 00:29:32,336 And notepad, but lyle stopped him. 690 00:29:32,338 --> 00:29:35,072 - Lyle menendez said, "hang on," he said, 691 00:29:35,074 --> 00:29:36,540 "we don't wanna do the interview today. 692 00:29:36,542 --> 00:29:39,010 We'd just like to meet you and get to know you." 693 00:29:39,012 --> 00:29:41,412 - The brothers had flaked on rand before. 694 00:29:41,414 --> 00:29:43,880 He was annoyed but obliged. 695 00:29:43,882 --> 00:29:46,817 They chatted informally and made plans to meet 696 00:29:46,819 --> 00:29:49,887 Later that weekend for an official interview. 697 00:29:49,889 --> 00:29:52,689 But when rand arrived... 698 00:29:52,691 --> 00:29:55,959 - Lyle had left for new york on a redeye the night before. 699 00:29:55,961 --> 00:29:58,161 He had a problem with his chicken wing restaurant 700 00:29:58,163 --> 00:29:59,430 In, uh, princeton. 701 00:29:59,432 --> 00:30:01,631 - Erik, however, was home, 702 00:30:01,633 --> 00:30:04,768 And this time he was willing to talk. 703 00:30:04,770 --> 00:30:06,837 - Erik was emotionally appropriate. 704 00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:08,505 He would c-- he'd cry at times, 705 00:30:08,507 --> 00:30:11,841 Um, and he was telling r-really lovely stories 706 00:30:11,843 --> 00:30:13,543 About how wonderful his parents were. 707 00:30:25,924 --> 00:30:28,759 - Erik said his father wanted to get into politics. 708 00:30:36,001 --> 00:30:37,667 - But now, with his father's death, 709 00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:40,070 Erik said he and his brother 710 00:30:40,072 --> 00:30:42,906 Wanted to fulfill his father's dream. 711 00:30:50,616 --> 00:30:52,549 - Then, the mood shifted, 712 00:30:52,551 --> 00:30:54,285 And erik described what he saw 713 00:30:54,287 --> 00:30:56,152 When he walked into the family den 714 00:30:56,154 --> 00:30:57,688 On August 20th. 715 00:31:21,780 --> 00:31:23,180 - And this was curious, 716 00:31:23,182 --> 00:31:25,917 Erik also told rand about a screenplay he'd written 717 00:31:25,919 --> 00:31:27,584 Called "friends." 718 00:31:27,586 --> 00:31:29,619 - Now, that story was about a young man 719 00:31:29,621 --> 00:31:33,524 Who murders his parents and inherits $157 million. 720 00:31:33,526 --> 00:31:34,791 - Fancy that. 721 00:31:34,793 --> 00:31:36,259 Erik wrote the screenplay 722 00:31:36,261 --> 00:31:39,062 With a close friend of his named craig cignarelli. 723 00:31:39,064 --> 00:31:41,931 When detective zoeller interviewed craig, 724 00:31:41,933 --> 00:31:45,068 He learned that craig and erik often fantasized 725 00:31:45,070 --> 00:31:47,337 About committing the perfect crime, 726 00:31:47,339 --> 00:31:50,540 Which in their screenplay became the story of a man 727 00:31:50,542 --> 00:31:53,276 Killing his parents and evading police. 728 00:31:53,278 --> 00:31:55,578 - They thought about the perfect crime, 729 00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:58,214 And here their parents are murdered, 730 00:31:58,216 --> 00:31:59,951 And we don't have a suspect yet. 731 00:31:59,953 --> 00:32:01,819 It's looking like a perfect crime to me 732 00:32:01,821 --> 00:32:02,953 At that point. 733 00:32:02,955 --> 00:32:05,955 - Zoeller began to wonder if erik's fantasy 734 00:32:05,957 --> 00:32:08,359 Could be playing out in reality. 735 00:32:08,361 --> 00:32:11,295 And then, craig told zoeller about his visit 736 00:32:11,297 --> 00:32:14,097 To the menendez house after the murders. 737 00:32:14,099 --> 00:32:16,366 - Erik had said, "do you wanna know what happened?" 738 00:32:16,368 --> 00:32:20,437 And he described shooting the parents, 739 00:32:20,439 --> 00:32:23,907 And then he summed it all up by saying, 740 00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:26,509 "it could happen." - huh. 741 00:32:26,511 --> 00:32:28,045 - And craig thought about it, and he says, 742 00:32:28,047 --> 00:32:30,981 "well, is he saying that's what he thinks 743 00:32:30,983 --> 00:32:33,718 Happened here at the house, 744 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,053 Or did they actually commit the crime?" 745 00:32:36,055 --> 00:32:37,588 - Strange. 746 00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:39,723 As was the story the brothers told 747 00:32:39,725 --> 00:32:42,927 About discovering their parents' bodies. 748 00:32:42,929 --> 00:32:47,063 - The brothers said that they saw this haze in the air 749 00:32:47,065 --> 00:32:50,800 And some smoke that they smelled. 750 00:32:50,802 --> 00:32:52,135 - Like gunpowder smoke. 751 00:32:52,137 --> 00:32:53,470 - Gunpowder smoke, but I mean, 752 00:32:53,472 --> 00:32:55,739 That dissipates pretty darn quick. 753 00:32:55,741 --> 00:32:57,875 Well, the officers got there right after they did, 754 00:32:57,877 --> 00:32:59,476 And they didn't smell anything. 755 00:32:59,478 --> 00:33:01,745 - The gunpowder smoke, 756 00:33:01,747 --> 00:33:04,013 And fantasizing about the perfect crime, 757 00:33:04,015 --> 00:33:05,181 And the screenplay, 758 00:33:05,183 --> 00:33:07,551 And even what might be called a confession 759 00:33:07,553 --> 00:33:09,553 Had all led detective zoeller 760 00:33:09,555 --> 00:33:11,222 To start thinking the unthinkable, 761 00:33:11,224 --> 00:33:14,491 That the brothers had murdered their mom and dad. 762 00:33:14,493 --> 00:33:16,694 And he wondered, would erik tell the story 763 00:33:16,696 --> 00:33:20,797 Of the shooting to craig again, this time on tape? 764 00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:23,234 - They decided to wire-wire up craig 765 00:33:23,236 --> 00:33:24,567 And go to this restaurant. 766 00:33:24,569 --> 00:33:29,005 - But, this time, erik wasn't at all talkative. 767 00:33:29,007 --> 00:33:31,508 - Erik didn't admit anything, 768 00:33:31,510 --> 00:33:33,109 But I think his conscience said, 769 00:33:33,111 --> 00:33:35,779 "you better not talk too much about this." 770 00:33:35,781 --> 00:33:39,983 - Not that day anyway and not to craig cignarelli, 771 00:33:39,985 --> 00:33:43,720 But erik did talk eventually 772 00:33:43,722 --> 00:33:47,792 And what he said would change everything. 773 00:33:50,896 --> 00:33:51,762 - Coming up... 774 00:33:51,764 --> 00:33:53,564 - Lyle burst into the room, 775 00:33:53,566 --> 00:33:56,334 She heard him say, "why did you tell him?" 776 00:33:56,336 --> 00:33:59,903 - The explosive secret hidden until now. 777 00:33:59,905 --> 00:34:02,473 - Could you believe it? - No, no. 778 00:34:02,475 --> 00:34:04,541 It was absolutely devastating, 779 00:34:04,543 --> 00:34:07,276 Shocking beyond words. 780 00:34:07,278 --> 00:34:07,344 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 781 00:34:07,445 --> 00:34:19,322 ♪♪ 782 00:34:19,324 --> 00:34:23,360 - Detective les zoeller had a very disturbing suspicion 783 00:34:23,362 --> 00:34:25,595 That lyle and erik menendez 784 00:34:25,597 --> 00:34:27,897 Had shotgunned their parents to death 785 00:34:27,899 --> 00:34:30,368 In the den of their beverly hills mansion. 786 00:34:30,370 --> 00:34:33,971 And then one day he just knew. 787 00:34:33,973 --> 00:34:35,905 Was there a particular time when you thought, 788 00:34:35,907 --> 00:34:37,708 "okay, yes, it's them." 789 00:34:37,710 --> 00:34:41,312 - Well, when we got a call from judalon smyth. 790 00:34:41,314 --> 00:34:44,115 - A name he'd never heard before. 791 00:34:44,117 --> 00:34:45,916 What did she have to tell you? 792 00:34:45,918 --> 00:34:50,254 - Her whole purpose was to talk about this doctor 793 00:34:50,256 --> 00:34:54,057 And how he was her therapist 794 00:34:54,059 --> 00:34:56,860 And he was having an affair with her. 795 00:34:56,862 --> 00:35:00,396 - Not relevant information to a homicide detective, 796 00:35:00,398 --> 00:35:03,600 But this was. 797 00:35:03,602 --> 00:35:05,001 What was his first name, doctor-- 798 00:35:05,003 --> 00:35:06,404 - Dr. Jerry oziel. 799 00:35:06,406 --> 00:35:10,073 - Dr. Oziel, the psychologist erik was sent to 800 00:35:10,075 --> 00:35:12,041 After those burglaries. 801 00:35:12,043 --> 00:35:14,010 Two months after the murders 802 00:35:14,012 --> 00:35:17,280 Judalon smyth said she was with dr. Oziel 803 00:35:17,282 --> 00:35:21,017 When erik menendez called to schedule an emergency session. 804 00:35:21,019 --> 00:35:23,286 ,smyth wouldn't talk to us for this report 805 00:35:23,288 --> 00:35:25,021 But she did back then, 806 00:35:25,023 --> 00:35:28,157 And here's what she told us dr. Oziel said 807 00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:29,760 After getting that call. 808 00:35:29,762 --> 00:35:32,296 - Well, all of a sudden he's saying, you know, 809 00:35:32,298 --> 00:35:36,032 "I hope I'm-I'm not gonna hear what I think I'm gonna hear." 810 00:35:36,034 --> 00:35:39,236 - Smyth told zoeller that dr. Oziel was worried 811 00:35:39,238 --> 00:35:41,505 About what might happen at the session, 812 00:35:41,507 --> 00:35:43,107 And so he asked her to stay 813 00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:44,842 In the waiting room of his office 814 00:35:44,844 --> 00:35:48,711 While he met with erik on October 31st, 1989. 815 00:35:48,713 --> 00:35:52,649 She also told zoeller that from the waiting room 816 00:35:52,651 --> 00:35:56,119 She overheard erik tell dr. Oziel the very thing 817 00:35:56,121 --> 00:36:00,456 Investigators had suspected for months but couldn't prove. 818 00:36:00,458 --> 00:36:04,127 - Erik said that they shot their parents. 819 00:36:04,129 --> 00:36:07,330 - And dr. Oziel immediately says, uh, 820 00:36:07,332 --> 00:36:08,398 "we need to call your brother 821 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,667 And have him come over here right away." 822 00:36:10,669 --> 00:36:13,470 - Lyle menendez, who'd been at the elm drive home 823 00:36:13,472 --> 00:36:16,173 Passing out candy to trick-or-treaters, 824 00:36:16,175 --> 00:36:18,675 Rushed over to dr. Oziel's office. 825 00:36:18,677 --> 00:36:20,476 - And lyle burst into the room. 826 00:36:20,478 --> 00:36:22,345 - Judalon smyth told zoeller 827 00:36:22,347 --> 00:36:25,281 She heard lyle confront his brother. 828 00:36:25,283 --> 00:36:29,286 - And she heard him say, "why did you tell him? 829 00:36:29,288 --> 00:36:30,954 We're gonna have to kill him now." 830 00:36:30,956 --> 00:36:33,356 - Seriously? - Yes. 831 00:36:33,358 --> 00:36:36,626 And erik said, "I can't kill anymore." 832 00:36:36,628 --> 00:36:42,098 And he burst in tears and left. 833 00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:47,171 Lyle and dr. Oziel more or less followed him, 834 00:36:47,173 --> 00:36:50,773 And lyle got to the elevator, 835 00:36:50,775 --> 00:36:54,310 And dr. Oziel said, "am I in danger?" 836 00:36:54,312 --> 00:36:57,380 And lyle said, "that's all I can tell you 837 00:36:57,382 --> 00:36:59,717 Is have a good life, dr. Oziel." 838 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,051 And it freaked him out. 839 00:37:02,053 --> 00:37:05,054 - What followed was a strange and nervous dance. 840 00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:07,257 Oziel told lyle and erik to come back 841 00:37:07,259 --> 00:37:09,592 For follow-up therapy sessions. 842 00:37:09,594 --> 00:37:13,663 The brothers, afraid oziel might go to the police, agreed. 843 00:37:13,665 --> 00:37:15,932 During one of those sessions 844 00:37:15,934 --> 00:37:19,469 They both confessed to killing their parents, 845 00:37:19,471 --> 00:37:22,739 And oziel recorded the conversation. 846 00:37:22,741 --> 00:37:25,541 Judalon smyth learned about the recording 847 00:37:25,543 --> 00:37:28,611 And told detectives, who promptly seized the tape. 848 00:37:28,613 --> 00:37:32,283 Just one problem, they weren't allowed to listen to it 849 00:37:32,285 --> 00:37:35,418 Because of doctor-patient privilege. 850 00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:37,287 - How frustrating was that? 851 00:37:37,289 --> 00:37:39,623 - It was very frustrating. 852 00:37:39,625 --> 00:37:41,224 A-a good piece of evidence, 853 00:37:41,226 --> 00:37:42,759 And I couldn't even listen to it. 854 00:37:42,761 --> 00:37:44,761 - Even though investigators didn't know whether 855 00:37:44,763 --> 00:37:46,829 They'd ever get to play that tape in court, 856 00:37:46,831 --> 00:37:48,898 They thought they had enough evidence 857 00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:50,968 To arrest the brothers. 858 00:37:50,970 --> 00:37:54,572 - Today, at approximately-- - it was March 8th, 1990. 859 00:37:54,574 --> 00:37:57,173 - Detectives arrested joseph lyle menendez 860 00:37:57,175 --> 00:38:00,177 For the August murders of his mother and father. 861 00:38:00,179 --> 00:38:01,978 - Erik was playing a tennis tournament 862 00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:03,781 In israel at the time. 863 00:38:03,783 --> 00:38:05,448 - Erik menendez is being sought 864 00:38:05,450 --> 00:38:07,450 By detectives of this department. 865 00:38:07,452 --> 00:38:10,319 - He surrendered to police three days later. 866 00:38:10,321 --> 00:38:12,388 Could you believe it? 867 00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:14,592 - No, no. 868 00:38:14,594 --> 00:38:17,861 It was absolutely devastating, shocking, 869 00:38:17,863 --> 00:38:20,530 Just beyond words. 870 00:38:20,532 --> 00:38:24,200 - Former "l.A. Times" reporter alan abrahamson... 871 00:38:24,202 --> 00:38:27,271 - Who would imagine that these two young men 872 00:38:27,273 --> 00:38:30,573 Of privilege, position, and power to be-- 873 00:38:30,575 --> 00:38:33,142 Could-could kill their parents? 874 00:38:33,144 --> 00:38:37,347 That's-that's the kind of stuff that shakespeare wrote about. 875 00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:40,483 - And yet, it seemed that's exactly what happened. 876 00:38:40,485 --> 00:38:43,887 A few weeks after the arrests detective zoeller confirmed 877 00:38:43,889 --> 00:38:47,024 Another tip judalon smyth gave them. 878 00:38:47,026 --> 00:38:50,094 - Judalon said that the guns were purchased 879 00:38:50,096 --> 00:38:52,295 At a gun store in san diego. 880 00:38:52,297 --> 00:38:53,963 I was looking through gun records, 881 00:38:53,965 --> 00:38:57,166 And I said, "this is it." 882 00:38:57,168 --> 00:38:58,636 - The name on the sale 883 00:38:58,638 --> 00:39:00,970 Was an old friend of lyle's from princeton, 884 00:39:00,972 --> 00:39:03,840 But the friend was not even in california 885 00:39:03,842 --> 00:39:08,311 When the guns were purchased, and he was missing his I.D. 886 00:39:08,313 --> 00:39:11,981 - We learned later that lyle had taken the wal-wallet. 887 00:39:11,983 --> 00:39:13,851 - It seemed like overwhelming evidence 888 00:39:13,853 --> 00:39:17,921 That lyle and erik killed their parents. 889 00:39:17,923 --> 00:39:20,590 The news rocketed around the country 890 00:39:20,592 --> 00:39:22,125 And much of the world. 891 00:39:22,127 --> 00:39:24,727 - The sons themselves shotgunned their own parents 892 00:39:24,729 --> 00:39:25,928 In their own home. 893 00:39:25,930 --> 00:39:27,997 - Two rich kids from beverly hills, 894 00:39:27,999 --> 00:39:30,267 Coddled, spoiled, greedy, 895 00:39:30,269 --> 00:39:33,069 Had murdered their own parents in cold blood. 896 00:39:33,071 --> 00:39:34,737 Actually planned it, 897 00:39:34,739 --> 00:39:36,939 Tried to make it look like a mob hit, 898 00:39:36,941 --> 00:39:39,342 Used stolen I.D. To buy the guns, 899 00:39:39,344 --> 00:39:40,678 Tried to get away with it, 900 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,148 And after went on a lavish nationwide spending spree. 901 00:39:45,150 --> 00:39:48,885 Public judgement came harsh and fast. 902 00:39:48,887 --> 00:39:50,688 - How do you plead? - Not guilty. 903 00:39:50,690 --> 00:39:53,090 - They were smirking, they were smug-- 904 00:39:53,092 --> 00:39:56,225 People were not predisposed to think kindly 905 00:39:56,227 --> 00:39:59,095 Of erik and lyle menendez. 906 00:39:59,097 --> 00:40:02,299 - Media feasted on the story of the rich brothers 907 00:40:02,301 --> 00:40:06,035 Who killed their parents for the $14 million estate. 908 00:40:06,037 --> 00:40:08,571 Hard to overstate the public's disgust 909 00:40:08,573 --> 00:40:10,239 With those young men. 910 00:40:10,241 --> 00:40:13,576 But, on the other side of the country, 911 00:40:13,578 --> 00:40:15,645 In an upscale new jersey town 912 00:40:15,647 --> 00:40:17,380 Just a few miles from princeton, 913 00:40:17,382 --> 00:40:20,716 People began comparing memories. 914 00:40:20,718 --> 00:40:23,720 - Their home at the time, it was a tudor style home, 915 00:40:23,722 --> 00:40:25,722 It was on a lake. 916 00:40:25,724 --> 00:40:28,391 - This is the home where lyle and erik grew up, 917 00:40:28,393 --> 00:40:31,128 Where bill curtain was a young tennis coach 918 00:40:31,130 --> 00:40:35,598 When he met jose menendez and was certainly impressed. 919 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,601 - There were two clear sides of him-- 920 00:40:38,603 --> 00:40:42,072 One was the very friendly, outgoing, joking person. 921 00:40:42,074 --> 00:40:46,409 The flip side was how driven and controlling he was. 922 00:40:46,411 --> 00:40:49,212 - Jose engaged bill to teach his son, lyle, 923 00:40:49,214 --> 00:40:53,249 And then watched the lessons, but didn't just watch. 924 00:40:53,251 --> 00:40:55,953 - He would physically come onto the tennis court 925 00:40:55,955 --> 00:40:59,222 And start giving instruction to lyle 926 00:40:59,224 --> 00:41:00,690 While I was still there. 927 00:41:00,692 --> 00:41:03,226 That was very, very strange, 928 00:41:03,228 --> 00:41:04,560 Very uncomfortable. 929 00:41:04,562 --> 00:41:06,630 - Only much later did bill learn 930 00:41:06,632 --> 00:41:09,565 Jose had hired several coaches for lyle, 931 00:41:09,567 --> 00:41:12,768 That the ten year old was working hours everyday 932 00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:14,370 To learn tennis. 933 00:41:14,372 --> 00:41:16,172 - He was incredibly quiet, 934 00:41:16,174 --> 00:41:19,041 Especially when jose was present. 935 00:41:19,043 --> 00:41:22,178 - Neighborhood memories about a successful 936 00:41:22,180 --> 00:41:24,981 But slightly imposing family. 937 00:41:24,983 --> 00:41:29,652 Everyone, uh, seemed to look up to them, 938 00:41:29,654 --> 00:41:32,922 But not draw closer to them. 939 00:41:32,924 --> 00:41:35,324 - Alicia hercz was a friend and neighbor 940 00:41:35,326 --> 00:41:36,726 Of the menendez family. 941 00:41:36,728 --> 00:41:39,329 - The minute they would come into a room, 942 00:41:39,331 --> 00:41:42,331 They took the air out of it. - Wow. 943 00:41:42,333 --> 00:41:47,403 - And we were all, you know, very, very careful. 944 00:41:47,405 --> 00:41:49,138 - Why would you be careful? 945 00:41:49,140 --> 00:41:52,808 - He tended, when he drank a little bit too much, 946 00:41:52,810 --> 00:41:56,612 To become very derogatory of other people. 947 00:41:56,614 --> 00:41:57,747 - Oh. 948 00:41:57,749 --> 00:42:00,616 - So, people didn't wanna be embarrassed by him. 949 00:42:00,618 --> 00:42:01,951 - They might be the next target. 950 00:42:01,953 --> 00:42:04,688 - You may be the well the next target, yes. 951 00:42:04,690 --> 00:42:06,422 - Did you see any examples of that sort of thing? 952 00:42:06,424 --> 00:42:07,423 - Many. 953 00:42:07,425 --> 00:42:09,292 - And that menendez house? 954 00:42:09,294 --> 00:42:12,563 - It was like it was covered with a shield. 955 00:42:12,565 --> 00:42:16,700 Like, uh, that was impenetrable. 956 00:42:16,702 --> 00:42:19,435 - Thing was, alicia wasn't just a neighbor, 957 00:42:19,437 --> 00:42:22,405 She was lyle's 9th grade spanish teacher 958 00:42:22,407 --> 00:42:24,474 Of the exclusive princeton day school. 959 00:42:24,476 --> 00:42:26,175 Was he a good student? 960 00:42:26,177 --> 00:42:28,111 - He tried to be, 961 00:42:28,113 --> 00:42:32,648 But he was not particularly talented at the language. 962 00:42:32,650 --> 00:42:34,984 - Once, she caught lyle cheating, 963 00:42:34,986 --> 00:42:38,587 And she said erik cheated, too. 964 00:42:38,589 --> 00:42:42,325 - I think teachers understood deep down inside 965 00:42:42,327 --> 00:42:43,860 What they were going through. 966 00:42:43,862 --> 00:42:45,262 - That they were being pressured-- 967 00:42:45,264 --> 00:42:46,729 - Yes. - Strenuously 968 00:42:46,731 --> 00:42:48,731 From their parents to do well. 969 00:42:48,733 --> 00:42:50,133 - To perform. Right. 970 00:42:50,135 --> 00:42:53,069 - And to alicia, it seemed to be taking a toll on lyle. 971 00:42:53,071 --> 00:42:55,605 Alicia remembers more than once 972 00:42:55,607 --> 00:43:00,343 Seeing lyle outside her office, staring blankly. 973 00:43:00,345 --> 00:43:03,613 - I wish to this day that I had gotten out 974 00:43:03,615 --> 00:43:07,149 And said, "please, come in. Please, come in." 975 00:43:07,151 --> 00:43:09,418 - Did you talk to kitty or jose about this? 976 00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:12,421 - Oh, no, I didn't reveal anything to them, no. 977 00:43:12,423 --> 00:43:15,425 And-and not anything that could get them in trouble. 978 00:43:15,427 --> 00:43:17,694 - The young boys alicia remembered 979 00:43:17,696 --> 00:43:20,296 Were now adults in serious trouble, 980 00:43:20,298 --> 00:43:22,031 Charged with killing the parents 981 00:43:22,033 --> 00:43:24,300 Who had expected so much from them. 982 00:43:24,302 --> 00:43:27,370 But their story of why they did it, 983 00:43:27,372 --> 00:43:29,238 That would leave the family 984 00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:32,542 And the rest of america speechless. 985 00:43:34,312 --> 00:43:35,177 - Coming up... 986 00:43:35,179 --> 00:43:36,780 The battle begins 987 00:43:36,782 --> 00:43:40,516 With a powerful new ally standing by the brothers. 988 00:43:40,518 --> 00:43:42,585 - How does he walk into a room with a shotgun? 989 00:43:42,587 --> 00:43:44,721 This kid? It doesn't add up. 990 00:43:44,723 --> 00:43:48,191 I mean, I'm totally, totally puzzled. 991 00:43:48,293 --> 00:43:53,814 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 992 00:43:53,815 --> 00:43:59,336 ♪♪ 993 00:43:59,338 --> 00:44:01,470 - Continuing our story, 994 00:44:01,472 --> 00:44:03,874 Lyle and erik menendez are under arrest 995 00:44:03,876 --> 00:44:05,841 For the murders of their parents 996 00:44:05,843 --> 00:44:08,611 In the family mansion in beverly hills. 997 00:44:08,613 --> 00:44:09,879 - It was grotesque what happened. 998 00:44:09,881 --> 00:44:10,880 - Blood soaked. 999 00:44:10,882 --> 00:44:12,416 - I had a chill up my spine. 1000 00:44:12,418 --> 00:44:13,416 - Could you believe it? 1001 00:44:13,418 --> 00:44:16,753 - No, it was absolutely devastating, 1002 00:44:16,755 --> 00:44:18,689 Just beyond words. 1003 00:44:18,691 --> 00:44:22,225 - The question now, what drove them to kill? 1004 00:44:22,227 --> 00:44:24,493 - How does he walk into a room with a shotgun? 1005 00:44:24,495 --> 00:44:25,561 This kid? 1006 00:44:25,563 --> 00:44:28,497 I mean, I'm totally, totally puzzled. 1007 00:44:28,499 --> 00:44:31,701 - A dark secret was about to come to light. 1008 00:44:31,703 --> 00:44:35,638 - I just told him that I didn't want to do this. 1009 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,573 - Something horrible is going on in the family. 1010 00:44:37,575 --> 00:44:38,974 - Oh, man, it was gut wrenching. 1011 00:44:38,976 --> 00:44:40,577 I wanted to bust the door down and say, 1012 00:44:40,579 --> 00:44:40,643 "what's goin' on here?" 1013 00:44:40,844 --> 00:44:50,053 ♪♪ 1014 00:44:50,055 --> 00:44:53,122 - Welcome back to "dateline: Secrets uncovered." 1015 00:44:53,124 --> 00:44:54,323 I'm kate snow. 1016 00:44:54,325 --> 00:44:57,527 A vicious double murder in a posh california enclave 1017 00:44:57,529 --> 00:44:59,328 Transfixed the nation. 1018 00:44:59,330 --> 00:45:01,864 The killers supposedly confessed their crime 1019 00:45:01,866 --> 00:45:05,135 To a psychiatrist and were about to lawyer up. 1020 00:45:05,137 --> 00:45:07,269 Soon, a tenacious defense attorney 1021 00:45:07,271 --> 00:45:09,939 Would help shift attention from the brothers 1022 00:45:09,941 --> 00:45:11,941 To the parents who raised them 1023 00:45:11,943 --> 00:45:14,344 And a troubled past, the siblings said, 1024 00:45:14,346 --> 00:45:16,880 They'd been keeping secret for years. 1025 00:45:16,882 --> 00:45:18,147 Here's keith morrison 1026 00:45:18,149 --> 00:45:22,284 With more of "unthinkable: The menendez murders." 1027 00:45:22,286 --> 00:45:24,687 - Lyle and erik menendez had been charged 1028 00:45:24,689 --> 00:45:26,622 With the unthinkable, 1029 00:45:26,624 --> 00:45:28,091 Murdering their mother and father. 1030 00:45:28,093 --> 00:45:31,160 Alicia hercz, their former neighbor and teacher, 1031 00:45:31,162 --> 00:45:34,765 Recalled two young boys whose parents seemed formidable, 1032 00:45:34,767 --> 00:45:36,065 Even to adults. 1033 00:45:36,067 --> 00:45:37,900 Like many others, said alicia, 1034 00:45:37,902 --> 00:45:41,170 She was careful around kitty and jose menendez. 1035 00:45:41,172 --> 00:45:44,573 But there was one episode she found too disturbing 1036 00:45:44,575 --> 00:45:48,311 To ignore, a diner party at the menendez home. 1037 00:45:48,313 --> 00:45:51,981 Jose told his guests he'd brought back a vhs tape 1038 00:45:51,983 --> 00:45:53,849 From a trip to brazil. 1039 00:45:53,851 --> 00:45:56,585 - "and I have to show you guys this 1040 00:45:56,587 --> 00:45:58,522 Because it's so unique." 1041 00:45:58,524 --> 00:46:03,125 And so he puts it in, and I don't remember the name. 1042 00:46:03,127 --> 00:46:05,194 - She said the film showed adults 1043 00:46:05,196 --> 00:46:07,930 Engaging in sex acts in front of children. 1044 00:46:07,932 --> 00:46:11,334 - And we saw a few seconds of it, 1045 00:46:11,336 --> 00:46:14,670 A few minutes, and we made excuses. 1046 00:46:14,672 --> 00:46:18,007 A lot of us stood up and said, "we have to leave." 1047 00:46:18,009 --> 00:46:20,410 We couldn't stand to see it, to watch it. 1048 00:46:20,412 --> 00:46:22,078 - But jose found this engaging. 1049 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,479 - Hysterically funny. 1050 00:46:23,481 --> 00:46:25,681 - These stories of the menendez family 1051 00:46:25,683 --> 00:46:27,683 Had been buried for years. 1052 00:46:27,685 --> 00:46:29,185 - Here we go, guys. 1053 00:46:29,187 --> 00:46:31,821 - Until the sons were charged with murder 1054 00:46:31,823 --> 00:46:34,757 And she signed on to defend them. 1055 00:46:34,759 --> 00:46:36,692 Verteran criminal defense attorney, 1056 00:46:36,694 --> 00:46:38,427 Leslie abramson, 1057 00:46:38,429 --> 00:46:41,964 Known for her brash style in the courtroom... 1058 00:46:41,966 --> 00:46:43,632 And with the press. 1059 00:46:43,634 --> 00:46:45,235 - You want that? That's what you get today. 1060 00:46:45,237 --> 00:46:46,369 Reporter robert rand, 1061 00:46:46,371 --> 00:46:48,037 Who wrote a book on the menendez case, 1062 00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:50,339 Recalled the attorney's passionate devotion 1063 00:46:50,341 --> 00:46:51,674 To her clients. 1064 00:46:51,676 --> 00:46:54,910 - I've never seen anybody with the power of leslie abramson. 1065 00:46:54,912 --> 00:46:58,847 Watching her in court was like watching great theater. 1066 00:46:58,849 --> 00:47:00,916 - In this old interview from our archives 1067 00:47:00,918 --> 00:47:03,853 Leslie abramson described how her defense strategy 1068 00:47:03,855 --> 00:47:05,122 Began to take shape. 1069 00:47:05,124 --> 00:47:07,256 - I'm hearing a lot of very negative 1070 00:47:07,258 --> 00:47:10,994 And-and at least heavily psychologically abusive things. 1071 00:47:10,996 --> 00:47:14,263 But it's not answering, what's wrong with this kid? 1072 00:47:14,265 --> 00:47:16,333 'cause he's incredibly sweet. 1073 00:47:16,335 --> 00:47:18,867 How does he walk into a room with a shotgun? 1074 00:47:18,869 --> 00:47:20,002 This kid? 1075 00:47:20,004 --> 00:47:21,470 And it doesn't add up. 1076 00:47:21,472 --> 00:47:25,407 I mean, I'm totally, totally puzzled, 1077 00:47:25,409 --> 00:47:27,476 And that's when I bring in vicary. 1078 00:47:27,478 --> 00:47:30,746 - Dr. William vicary, then a forensic psychiatrist 1079 00:47:30,748 --> 00:47:32,482 And a graduate of harvard law school, 1080 00:47:32,484 --> 00:47:34,617 Agreed to meet with the brothers in jail. 1081 00:47:34,619 --> 00:47:36,753 He knew going in police believed 1082 00:47:36,755 --> 00:47:40,022 Lyle and eric killed their parents for money. 1083 00:47:40,024 --> 00:47:45,895 - But, based upon the, uh, dozens of parricide cases 1084 00:47:45,897 --> 00:47:47,296 That-that I had worked on in the past, 1085 00:47:47,298 --> 00:47:49,765 That's the exception, it's not the rule. 1086 00:47:49,767 --> 00:47:51,434 The rule is that something horrible 1087 00:47:51,436 --> 00:47:52,835 Is going on in the family. 1088 00:47:52,837 --> 00:47:56,505 - And something was going on in the menendez family, 1089 00:47:56,507 --> 00:47:59,441 Something very secret, 1090 00:47:59,443 --> 00:48:02,644 But what was it? 1091 00:48:02,646 --> 00:48:03,879 - Coming up... 1092 00:48:03,881 --> 00:48:07,516 New evidence seen on television for the first time. 1093 00:48:07,518 --> 00:48:09,785 A letter from lyle to erik 1094 00:48:09,787 --> 00:48:12,321 Hinting at the horrors in that house. 1095 00:48:12,323 --> 00:48:13,923 - Oh, man, it was gut wrenching. 1096 00:48:13,925 --> 00:48:17,059 Just the screams and the "daddy, don't hit me. 1097 00:48:17,061 --> 00:48:18,929 Daddy, don't." you know, that kinda stuff. 1098 00:48:18,931 --> 00:48:18,994 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 1099 00:48:19,195 --> 00:48:30,940 ♪♪ 1100 00:48:30,942 --> 00:48:33,175 - Lyle and erik menendez, 1101 00:48:33,177 --> 00:48:36,045 The boys from beverly hills, sat in jail 1102 00:48:36,047 --> 00:48:39,216 Charged with the shotgun murders of their parents, 1103 00:48:39,218 --> 00:48:42,751 And the great wheel of justice ground slow. 1104 00:48:42,753 --> 00:48:44,020 The main issue, 1105 00:48:44,022 --> 00:48:47,357 Was the jerome oziel confession tape admissible, 1106 00:48:47,359 --> 00:48:50,292 Or should doctor-patient privilege keep it out? 1107 00:48:50,294 --> 00:48:52,227 The argument went all the way 1108 00:48:52,229 --> 00:48:54,163 To california's highest court. 1109 00:48:54,165 --> 00:48:55,498 - We sat around for a couple years, 1110 00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:57,500 Waiting for the supreme court to rule. 1111 00:48:57,502 --> 00:48:59,268 - During which, the menendez brothers 1112 00:48:59,270 --> 00:49:01,337 Resided at the men's central jail, 1113 00:49:01,339 --> 00:49:03,339 Where soon after their arrest 1114 00:49:03,341 --> 00:49:06,241 Lyle slipped his brother a letter. 1115 00:49:06,243 --> 00:49:08,110 "dateline" obtained a copy. 1116 00:49:08,112 --> 00:49:10,245 It had never been broadcast before. 1117 00:49:10,247 --> 00:49:14,049 In it, lyle wrote about their father and the murders. 1118 00:49:14,051 --> 00:49:17,586 "he bore two brilliant children, only two, 1119 00:49:17,588 --> 00:49:20,255 They carry his name and his pride. 1120 00:49:20,257 --> 00:49:23,459 We did not do anything for the money." 1121 00:49:23,461 --> 00:49:26,463 He went on, "we alone know the truth. 1122 00:49:26,465 --> 00:49:29,865 We alone know the secrets of our family's past. 1123 00:49:29,867 --> 00:49:31,668 I do not look forward 1124 00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:33,670 To broadcasting them around the country. 1125 00:49:33,672 --> 00:49:36,805 I pray that it never has to happen." 1126 00:49:36,807 --> 00:49:38,340 Secrets? 1127 00:49:38,342 --> 00:49:40,409 At this point, even attorney leslie abramson 1128 00:49:40,411 --> 00:49:41,477 Knew none of them. 1129 00:49:41,479 --> 00:49:45,881 Lyle and erik revealed nothing, not to abramson 1130 00:49:45,883 --> 00:49:48,218 And not to the forensic psychiatrist 1131 00:49:48,220 --> 00:49:50,085 She hired, william vicary. 1132 00:49:50,087 --> 00:49:52,554 - What struck me in that initial interview 1133 00:49:52,556 --> 00:49:57,294 Was how together the older brother lyle was. 1134 00:49:57,296 --> 00:50:01,097 I mean, he was articulate, he made good eye contact. 1135 00:50:01,099 --> 00:50:02,098 - Yeah. 1136 00:50:02,100 --> 00:50:05,768 - He had very thoughtful organized answers. 1137 00:50:05,770 --> 00:50:09,238 - Erik on the other hand seemed broken. 1138 00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:12,107 - He very rarely made eye contact, 1139 00:50:12,109 --> 00:50:14,843 He was biting his fingernails. 1140 00:50:14,845 --> 00:50:16,312 So I was thinking in my head, 1141 00:50:16,314 --> 00:50:20,382 "boy, I sure hope I get to work with the older brother 1142 00:50:20,384 --> 00:50:21,718 And not the younger brother. 1143 00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:23,252 Because this is gonna be a piece of cake 1144 00:50:23,254 --> 00:50:24,787 With the older brother." 1145 00:50:24,789 --> 00:50:26,155 - How wrong he was. 1146 00:50:26,157 --> 00:50:29,792 After a few sessions with lyle, dr. Vicary hit a wall 1147 00:50:29,794 --> 00:50:33,862 And moved on to erik, who month after month 1148 00:50:33,864 --> 00:50:36,599 Seemed to stick to a kind of script 1149 00:50:36,601 --> 00:50:41,003 About his wonderful father, his loving family. 1150 00:50:41,005 --> 00:50:43,939 - And the minute something would leak out, 1151 00:50:43,941 --> 00:50:48,143 About maybe things weren't so wonderful in the family, 1152 00:50:48,145 --> 00:50:50,879 He would start crying. - Hmm. 1153 00:50:50,881 --> 00:50:55,884 - And he would kind of dissolve and-and-and whimper, 1154 00:50:55,886 --> 00:50:58,955 And he just wouldn't go any further. 1155 00:50:58,957 --> 00:51:00,222 [sighs] 1156 00:51:00,224 --> 00:51:02,826 - Vicary put erik on antidepressants, 1157 00:51:02,828 --> 00:51:06,162 And slowly a trust began to form. 1158 00:51:06,164 --> 00:51:09,899 - As the months rolled by, I got more and more 1159 00:51:09,901 --> 00:51:13,236 Pieces of information, and it got worse, and worse, 1160 00:51:13,238 --> 00:51:16,306 And worse as to what was going on in his family. 1161 00:51:16,308 --> 00:51:18,575 Until finally, the dam broke. 1162 00:51:18,577 --> 00:51:20,844 - Erik and lyle's cousin, alan anderson, 1163 00:51:20,846 --> 00:51:22,979 Had lived with the menendez family 1164 00:51:22,981 --> 00:51:26,515 And knew the public didn't understand. 1165 00:51:26,517 --> 00:51:27,650 - They just knew that, "okay, we've got 1166 00:51:27,652 --> 00:51:30,653 "these rich kids-- boom-- shot their parents, 1167 00:51:30,655 --> 00:51:32,589 "now they're-- think they're multi-millionaires." 1168 00:51:32,591 --> 00:51:34,356 Well, that's not the case. 1169 00:51:34,358 --> 00:51:35,792 - Alan had begun thinking back to 1170 00:51:35,794 --> 00:51:38,193 Some very disturbing things he had witnessed 1171 00:51:38,195 --> 00:51:42,764 At the menendez house, as had cousin diane hernandez. 1172 00:51:42,766 --> 00:51:45,934 - He would take their heads and push them under water 1173 00:51:45,936 --> 00:51:47,936 Until they started panicking and needed up. 1174 00:51:47,938 --> 00:51:51,040 He would let 'em up again. - Jose's way of teaching 1175 00:51:51,042 --> 00:51:54,210 His then quite young boys to swim. 1176 00:51:54,212 --> 00:51:55,878 What did kitty seem to think about it? 1177 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,013 - I mean, if jose did or said it, 1178 00:51:58,015 --> 00:52:01,350 There was no questioning it. Absolutely none. 1179 00:52:01,352 --> 00:52:05,420 - Not by the boys, not by kitty. 1180 00:52:05,422 --> 00:52:08,157 - She became, like, his right hand man 1181 00:52:08,159 --> 00:52:10,225 In enforcing things. 1182 00:52:10,227 --> 00:52:13,362 - Including what diane and alan came to know 1183 00:52:13,364 --> 00:52:17,633 As the single most important rule in the menendez house. 1184 00:52:17,635 --> 00:52:19,169 - You cannot go down that hall 1185 00:52:19,171 --> 00:52:20,903 When jose is with his kids, truly. 1186 00:52:20,905 --> 00:52:22,037 - Kitty didn't go down the hall either? 1187 00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:24,907 - No, no. Uh-uh. 1188 00:52:24,909 --> 00:52:27,576 - But they did hear things. 1189 00:52:27,578 --> 00:52:29,045 - I've heard them being whipped. 1190 00:52:29,047 --> 00:52:30,579 Oh, man, it was gut wrenching. 1191 00:52:30,581 --> 00:52:33,782 The-- just the screams and the, "daddy, don't hit me. 1192 00:52:33,784 --> 00:52:36,051 "daddy, don't." you know, that kinda stuff. 1193 00:52:36,053 --> 00:52:38,388 - A disturbing series of stories that, 1194 00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:41,056 To the defense, began to explain 1195 00:52:41,058 --> 00:52:43,525 What those young men did to their parents. 1196 00:52:43,527 --> 00:52:46,662 But how do you get from disturbing stories 1197 00:52:46,664 --> 00:52:48,731 To a double murder? 1198 00:52:48,733 --> 00:52:52,468 The brothers' lawyers began to connect the dots. 1199 00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:57,806 Their defense would be unique and daring. 1200 00:52:57,808 --> 00:52:59,507 - Coming up... 1201 00:52:59,509 --> 00:53:02,344 The prosecution versus the defense. 1202 00:53:02,346 --> 00:53:04,880 The fireworks were about to begin. 1203 00:53:04,882 --> 00:53:06,683 - I felt that the brothers were evil, 1204 00:53:06,685 --> 00:53:09,218 But not as bad as she was. 1205 00:53:09,220 --> 00:53:09,285 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 1206 00:53:09,419 --> 00:53:20,863 ♪♪ 1207 00:53:20,865 --> 00:53:23,299 - Even before the menendez brothers went on trial, 1208 00:53:23,301 --> 00:53:25,768 The defense scored a big victory. 1209 00:53:25,770 --> 00:53:28,103 The california supreme court ruled that 1210 00:53:28,105 --> 00:53:30,639 The confession tape made by dr. Oziel 1211 00:53:30,641 --> 00:53:33,575 Could not be presented as evidence. 1212 00:53:33,577 --> 00:53:35,243 Of course, the defense had already conceded that 1213 00:53:35,245 --> 00:53:38,280 Lyle and erik killed their parents. 1214 00:53:38,282 --> 00:53:42,317 Nearly four years after the murders, July 1993. 1215 00:53:42,319 --> 00:53:45,053 If convicted here, lyle and erik could face 1216 00:53:45,055 --> 00:53:47,257 The death penalty. Their judge was 1217 00:53:47,259 --> 00:53:50,392 Stanley weisberg, who'd already presided over 1218 00:53:50,394 --> 00:53:54,663 High profile cases, notably the rodney king beating case 1219 00:53:54,665 --> 00:53:57,332 Whose results sparked the l.A. Riots. 1220 00:53:57,334 --> 00:53:59,868 Judge weisberg ruled that each brother would have 1221 00:53:59,870 --> 00:54:02,605 His own jury and... 1222 00:54:02,607 --> 00:54:06,141 - The electronic media that, uh, wants access 1223 00:54:06,143 --> 00:54:07,142 To this courtroom-- 1224 00:54:07,144 --> 00:54:09,812 - He allowed cameras in the courtroom. 1225 00:54:09,814 --> 00:54:12,749 - The idea that there was a camera in a courtroom 1226 00:54:12,751 --> 00:54:16,885 In california was so new, so novel. 1227 00:54:16,887 --> 00:54:20,422 - Reporter alan abrahamson, once an attorney himself, 1228 00:54:20,424 --> 00:54:23,091 Covered the trial for "the l.A. Times." 1229 00:54:23,093 --> 00:54:24,559 - You weren't just playing to the jury, 1230 00:54:24,561 --> 00:54:27,363 You were playing to all of america. 1231 00:54:27,365 --> 00:54:30,365 - The judge's decision turned a local l.A. Story into 1232 00:54:30,367 --> 00:54:32,901 An international sensation. 1233 00:54:32,903 --> 00:54:35,370 How big was it? 1234 00:54:35,372 --> 00:54:37,707 The menendez trial was the case that put 1235 00:54:37,709 --> 00:54:42,844 An entire network, court tv, on the broadcast landscape. 1236 00:54:42,846 --> 00:54:46,382 Prosecutor pam bozanich knew all of america was 1237 00:54:46,384 --> 00:54:48,918 Watching her every move. How did you feel 1238 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,321 As you prepared to make your opening statement? 1239 00:54:51,323 --> 00:54:52,988 - As I walked down the hallway, all the cameras were 1240 00:54:52,990 --> 00:54:56,793 There and, you know, I just threw up, 1241 00:54:56,795 --> 00:54:58,860 'cause I-I thought, "oh, god, you know, 1242 00:54:58,862 --> 00:55:01,129 "this is really stressful," so. 1243 00:55:01,131 --> 00:55:03,331 - What's more, prosecutor bozanich was 1244 00:55:03,333 --> 00:55:07,402 Going up against two fierce opponents, leslie abramson 1245 00:55:07,404 --> 00:55:11,807 Defending erik and jill lansing defending lyle. 1246 00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:15,010 These were three very smart, strong women. 1247 00:55:15,012 --> 00:55:17,012 - Definitely. - Engaged against each other 1248 00:55:17,014 --> 00:55:19,349 Over these boys. - Yes. 1249 00:55:19,351 --> 00:55:21,351 - I say, "boys," but they weren't really 1250 00:55:21,353 --> 00:55:22,217 Boys, were they? 1251 00:55:22,219 --> 00:55:23,285 - No, they weren't boys at all. 1252 00:55:23,287 --> 00:55:25,821 In fact, that's what the defense wanted everybody 1253 00:55:25,823 --> 00:55:28,557 To hear, was "boys," and "these poor boys, 1254 00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:30,692 "these orphans." - yeah. 1255 00:55:30,694 --> 00:55:35,030 Orphans, an impression the defense tried to play up. 1256 00:55:35,032 --> 00:55:37,766 Leslie abramson wrapped her arms around their shoulders, 1257 00:55:37,768 --> 00:55:41,770 Had them trade their dapper suits for preppy sweaters. 1258 00:55:41,772 --> 00:55:43,105 - Everything that jill lansing 1259 00:55:43,107 --> 00:55:47,110 And leslie abramson did was deliberate and calculated. 1260 00:55:47,112 --> 00:55:50,112 - Prosecutor bozanich steeled herself, determined 1261 00:55:50,114 --> 00:55:53,448 Not to let the optics distract the juries. 1262 00:55:53,450 --> 00:55:55,917 - Based upon this evidence, it will become apparent 1263 00:55:55,919 --> 00:55:59,321 That this murder was unlawful, unjustified, 1264 00:55:59,323 --> 00:56:01,323 And wholly premeditated. 1265 00:56:01,325 --> 00:56:03,859 - In basic english, the prosecution's case 1266 00:56:03,861 --> 00:56:07,062 Was this: "just the facts, ma'am." 1267 00:56:07,064 --> 00:56:09,464 - Fact number one: Lyle and erik driving 1268 00:56:09,466 --> 00:56:12,067 Down to san diego two days before the murders 1269 00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:16,138 To buy shotguns, and with a stolen I.D. 1270 00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:17,940 - Why are you using the fake I.D.? 1271 00:56:17,942 --> 00:56:19,676 'cause you know you're gonna be using the gun 1272 00:56:19,678 --> 00:56:21,610 To do something you shouldn't be doing. 1273 00:56:21,612 --> 00:56:23,678 That is evidence of intent. 1274 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,548 - After the murders, the prosecution showed, 1275 00:56:26,550 --> 00:56:29,418 The brothers lied to the police for months, 1276 00:56:29,420 --> 00:56:32,288 Starting from the very moment lyle called 9-1-1. 1277 00:56:35,759 --> 00:56:38,560 - And they did it all for the family fortune, 1278 00:56:38,562 --> 00:56:41,163 The state said. Remember, lyle and erik had 1279 00:56:41,165 --> 00:56:43,231 Searched for the will just days after 1280 00:56:43,233 --> 00:56:45,100 Their parents' murders and went on 1281 00:56:45,102 --> 00:56:48,637 A lavish, multi-state spending spree. 1282 00:56:48,639 --> 00:56:50,706 - They were very aggressive about spending money 1283 00:56:50,708 --> 00:56:52,441 As soon as possible. - Yeah. 1284 00:56:52,443 --> 00:56:54,709 - Which I thought was very strange. 1285 00:56:54,711 --> 00:56:56,979 - It was pretty obvious, said the prosecutor, 1286 00:56:56,981 --> 00:57:00,315 First degree murder, and they did it for the money. 1287 00:57:00,317 --> 00:57:01,650 - At the end of the prosecution case 1288 00:57:01,652 --> 00:57:03,785 I was like, "okay, these-these two brothers are 1289 00:57:03,787 --> 00:57:05,855 "so guilty, it's not even funny." 1290 00:57:05,857 --> 00:57:09,459 - But then there was her. - Ms. Abramson 1291 00:57:09,461 --> 00:57:11,660 For the defense. - Thank you, your honor. 1292 00:57:11,662 --> 00:57:14,329 - We had a joke, um, the investigator, myself, 1293 00:57:14,331 --> 00:57:16,598 And my co-de-- uh, co-counsel, lester. 1294 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,867 The joke was you have a gun, you have two bullets, 1295 00:57:18,869 --> 00:57:22,270 You go in the courtroom-- who do you shoot, okay? 1296 00:57:22,272 --> 00:57:25,341 So both the guys say they would shoot lyle and erik, 1297 00:57:25,343 --> 00:57:29,011 And I-- my thing was I'm gonna shoot leslie twice. 1298 00:57:29,013 --> 00:57:31,012 I felt that the brothers were evil, 1299 00:57:31,014 --> 00:57:33,549 But not as bad as she was. 1300 00:57:33,551 --> 00:57:37,553 - Abramson had a reputation for doing whatever it took. 1301 00:57:37,555 --> 00:57:39,287 - You guys haven't been fair to these boys, 1302 00:57:39,289 --> 00:57:40,823 And you're not fair to them now. 1303 00:57:40,825 --> 00:57:43,559 - And she had an unusual strategy for defending 1304 00:57:43,561 --> 00:57:45,561 The brothers. A law known as 1305 00:57:45,563 --> 00:57:49,831 Imperfect self-defense. - That is to say, 1306 00:57:49,833 --> 00:57:52,301 Under all those circumstances, it was reasonable 1307 00:57:52,303 --> 00:57:54,236 To the person to think that they were acting 1308 00:57:54,238 --> 00:57:57,172 In self defense. But the reality is 1309 00:57:57,174 --> 00:58:00,042 That that wasn't the case at all. 1310 00:58:00,044 --> 00:58:02,644 - In other words, an honest but unreasonable belief 1311 00:58:02,646 --> 00:58:05,581 That one's life is in danger. The defense argued that 1312 00:58:05,583 --> 00:58:08,383 The brothers weren't spoiled, they were damaged, 1313 00:58:08,385 --> 00:58:11,319 Subject to years of abuse, that made the decision 1314 00:58:11,321 --> 00:58:13,321 To kill their parents seem to them like 1315 00:58:13,323 --> 00:58:16,791 An act of self defense against imminent danger. 1316 00:58:16,793 --> 00:58:19,527 If the jury agreed, the menendez brothers 1317 00:58:19,529 --> 00:58:22,331 Would get manslaughter instead of murder. 1318 00:58:22,333 --> 00:58:25,467 - Our witnesses will paint a portrait 1319 00:58:25,469 --> 00:58:29,537 Of jose and mary louise menendez as parents that 1320 00:58:29,539 --> 00:58:33,541 Will make understandable to you how they could have 1321 00:58:33,543 --> 00:58:37,279 Died at the hands of their children, 1322 00:58:37,281 --> 00:58:39,748 What they did to their children 1323 00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:41,216 To bring this about. 1324 00:58:41,218 --> 00:58:44,085 - The parents were as much on trial 1325 00:58:44,087 --> 00:58:46,421 As lyle and erik menendez were on trial. 1326 00:58:46,423 --> 00:58:49,224 And-and while the prosecution tried to-to stick to 1327 00:58:49,226 --> 00:58:52,894 A "just the facts, ma'am" narrative, 1328 00:58:52,896 --> 00:58:55,363 The defense strategy was emotion, emotion, 1329 00:58:55,365 --> 00:58:56,965 Emotion, emotion. 1330 00:58:56,967 --> 00:58:59,468 - The defense called teachers and coaches 1331 00:58:59,470 --> 00:59:02,037 And family members to testify about 1332 00:59:02,039 --> 00:59:06,174 Emotional and physical abuse. One of them was cousin alan. 1333 00:59:06,176 --> 00:59:08,377 - And would you see bruises on the boys after that? 1334 00:59:08,379 --> 00:59:11,980 - Yes, yes in their-- above their-- 1335 00:59:11,982 --> 00:59:15,985 Above their thigh area or thereabout would be hit. 1336 00:59:15,987 --> 00:59:19,254 - And then, cousin diane took the stand, 1337 00:59:19,256 --> 00:59:23,124 And here came the most explosive issue of the trial. 1338 00:59:23,126 --> 00:59:25,794 Diane testified that the abuse jose inflicted 1339 00:59:25,796 --> 00:59:30,465 On his sons was not just physical, but sexual. 1340 00:59:30,467 --> 00:59:32,001 - He and his dad had been touching each other, 1341 00:59:32,003 --> 00:59:36,338 And he indicated that it was in his genital area. 1342 00:59:36,340 --> 00:59:40,142 - And diane told us she observed even more. 1343 00:59:40,144 --> 00:59:42,278 - Three of them would take showers together. 1344 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,347 Uh, lyle was 15 and erik was 12. 1345 00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:49,417 - Prosecutor bozanich was, to say the least, skeptical. 1346 00:59:49,419 --> 00:59:51,888 - If my daughter needed me to lie for her, 1347 00:59:51,890 --> 00:59:53,555 I'd lie for her. - Yeah. 1348 00:59:53,557 --> 00:59:55,890 - If it was a life and death thing, of course you would. 1349 00:59:55,892 --> 00:59:57,826 If it's your cousin that you grew up with, 1350 00:59:57,828 --> 00:59:59,027 Of course you would. 1351 00:59:59,029 --> 01:00:01,629 - Are you pretty sure that they were doing that? 1352 01:00:01,631 --> 01:00:03,499 - I'm positive. 1353 01:00:03,501 --> 01:00:05,234 - One reason why... 1354 01:00:05,236 --> 01:00:06,701 - A relative came to me and said 1355 01:00:06,703 --> 01:00:10,305 That she thought that the, um, defense was made up, 1356 01:00:10,307 --> 01:00:12,107 That she'd confronted lyle about it, 1357 01:00:12,109 --> 01:00:15,043 And he said to her, "that's the way it's gonna be." 1358 01:00:15,045 --> 01:00:17,713 - So, we had to ask. 1359 01:00:17,715 --> 01:00:19,314 Did the brothers ask you to lie for them? 1360 01:00:19,316 --> 01:00:20,448 - No. 1361 01:00:20,450 --> 01:00:21,850 - Did they ask you to sort of, 1362 01:00:21,852 --> 01:00:23,718 Like, shade things, or tell certain stories 1363 01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:24,653 And not other stories, or anything like that? 1364 01:00:24,655 --> 01:00:27,657 - No, mm-mmm, mm-mmm. 1365 01:00:27,659 --> 01:00:30,860 - The defense contended the abuse was real, 1366 01:00:30,862 --> 01:00:34,129 Went on for years. And finally... 1367 01:00:34,131 --> 01:00:36,866 - They came to believe 1368 01:00:36,868 --> 01:00:41,336 That something terrible was about to break loose. 1369 01:00:41,338 --> 01:00:43,739 - Specifically, that their parents were going to 1370 01:00:43,741 --> 01:00:48,210 Kill them if they didn't kill their parents first. 1371 01:00:48,212 --> 01:00:50,145 Mental health experts testified and said 1372 01:00:50,147 --> 01:00:53,282 That was understandable. 1373 01:00:53,284 --> 01:00:55,818 - Erik and lyle menendez purchased the shotguns 1374 01:00:55,820 --> 01:00:58,220 For their own protection. 1375 01:00:58,222 --> 01:01:00,488 - It was a high stakes defense. 1376 01:01:00,490 --> 01:01:03,625 And by far the most important witnesses would be 1377 01:01:03,627 --> 01:01:05,761 The brothers themselves. 1378 01:01:05,763 --> 01:01:08,631 Would the jury believe them? 1379 01:01:08,633 --> 01:01:11,567 Would america? 1380 01:01:11,569 --> 01:01:13,468 - Coming up... 1381 01:01:13,470 --> 01:01:15,905 - My dad had been molesting me. 1382 01:01:15,907 --> 01:01:18,641 - I just told him that I didn't wanna do this, 1383 01:01:18,643 --> 01:01:22,044 And that it hurt me. 1384 01:01:22,046 --> 01:01:25,313 - Shocking then, chilling even now. 1385 01:01:25,315 --> 01:01:28,116 Was it the truth? 1386 01:01:28,118 --> 01:01:28,183 When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 1387 01:01:28,251 --> 01:01:38,793 ♪♪ 1388 01:01:38,795 --> 01:01:40,595 - So what was it, then? 1389 01:01:40,597 --> 01:01:42,530 - According to leslie abramson, 1390 01:01:42,532 --> 01:01:44,199 There was only one relevant question 1391 01:01:44,201 --> 01:01:46,268 To consider in the menendez murders. 1392 01:01:46,270 --> 01:01:48,603 - Why did these killings occur? 1393 01:01:48,605 --> 01:01:50,272 - A question the brothers believed 1394 01:01:50,274 --> 01:01:52,207 They could answer best. 1395 01:01:52,209 --> 01:01:55,143 No one had ever seen televised testimony 1396 01:01:55,145 --> 01:01:57,145 Like this before. 1397 01:01:57,147 --> 01:02:00,016 - State your full name, and spell your last name. 1398 01:02:00,018 --> 01:02:02,217 - Joseph lyle menendez. 1399 01:02:02,219 --> 01:02:05,887 - The brothers testified in graphic, emotional terms 1400 01:02:05,889 --> 01:02:07,088 About what they said were 1401 01:02:07,090 --> 01:02:09,824 The darkest secrets of their family. 1402 01:02:09,826 --> 01:02:14,830 - Between the ages of six and eight, 1403 01:02:14,832 --> 01:02:18,633 Did your father have sexual contact with you? 1404 01:02:18,635 --> 01:02:20,535 - Yes. 1405 01:02:20,537 --> 01:02:25,908 We would be in the bathroom, and, uh, um, 1406 01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:28,243 It would-- he would put me on my knees 1407 01:02:28,245 --> 01:02:32,214 And, uh, have oral sex with him. 1408 01:02:34,518 --> 01:02:36,318 - Did you wanna do this? 1409 01:02:56,139 --> 01:02:59,741 At some point, did he do some other things to you? 1410 01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,348 - He-he raped me. 1411 01:03:06,350 --> 01:03:11,586 - Did you ask him not to? - Yes. 1412 01:03:11,588 --> 01:03:15,023 I just told him that I didn't wanna do this, 1413 01:03:15,025 --> 01:03:21,763 And that it hurt me. 1414 01:03:21,765 --> 01:03:25,434 And he said that he didn't mean to hurt me, 1415 01:03:25,436 --> 01:03:28,069 And he loved me. 1416 01:03:28,071 --> 01:03:30,572 - What did he tell you about telling people? 1417 01:03:34,911 --> 01:03:39,448 - He just said that it was our secret, 1418 01:03:39,450 --> 01:03:42,584 That bad things would happen to me 1419 01:03:42,586 --> 01:03:45,187 If I told anybody. 1420 01:03:45,189 --> 01:03:47,189 - Lyle testified his father stopped 1421 01:03:47,191 --> 01:03:50,592 Abusing him when he turned eight. 1422 01:03:50,594 --> 01:03:52,861 And he said for years, he had no idea 1423 01:03:52,863 --> 01:03:56,064 His brother was a victim, too. 1424 01:03:56,066 --> 01:03:58,199 Then erik took the stand. 1425 01:03:58,201 --> 01:03:59,934 - He would have me give him-- me oral sex, 1426 01:03:59,936 --> 01:04:02,670 And he would stick the needles or the tacks 1427 01:04:02,672 --> 01:04:05,874 Into my thighs, uh, as he was doing this. 1428 01:04:05,876 --> 01:04:07,409 - Erik testified that when he refused 1429 01:04:07,411 --> 01:04:10,078 To cooperate with his father's demands... 1430 01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:12,080 - He came back with a knife. 1431 01:04:12,082 --> 01:04:13,281 He put it on my neck. 1432 01:04:13,283 --> 01:04:16,618 He said, "I should kill you. And next time I will." 1433 01:04:16,620 --> 01:04:18,286 - Reaction to the brothers' testimony was, 1434 01:04:18,288 --> 01:04:21,222 To say the least, polarized. 1435 01:04:21,224 --> 01:04:23,024 - You either totally believed that 1436 01:04:23,026 --> 01:04:25,360 The brothers had been abused, or no, 1437 01:04:25,362 --> 01:04:27,429 You thought the whole thing was a complete crock 1438 01:04:27,431 --> 01:04:28,964 Of you-know-what. 1439 01:04:28,966 --> 01:04:33,168 - But, the defense said, the brothers' explosive claims 1440 01:04:33,170 --> 01:04:35,771 Were just the lead-up, the backstory 1441 01:04:35,773 --> 01:04:39,440 To what really prompted the murders. 1442 01:04:39,442 --> 01:04:44,847 - What do you believe was the originating cause 1443 01:04:44,849 --> 01:04:46,315 Of you and your brother 1444 01:04:46,317 --> 01:04:50,553 Ultimately winding up shooting your parents? 1445 01:04:50,555 --> 01:04:53,621 - Me telling lyle that, uh, m-- 1446 01:04:55,525 --> 01:04:56,958 - You telling lyle what? 1447 01:05:01,064 --> 01:05:02,797 Was it you telling lyle about something 1448 01:05:02,799 --> 01:05:03,998 That was happening? 1449 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,400 - My dad-- 1450 01:05:06,402 --> 01:05:09,737 That my dad had been molesting me. 1451 01:05:09,739 --> 01:05:13,274 - And had been right up until the murders, erik said. 1452 01:05:13,276 --> 01:05:17,479 And he testified that his mother was aware of it all. 1453 01:05:17,481 --> 01:05:19,347 - She says, "I know. I've always known. 1454 01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:20,749 "what, do you think I'm stupid?" 1455 01:05:20,751 --> 01:05:23,618 - Lyle said he confronted his father 1456 01:05:23,620 --> 01:05:24,953 Several days before the murders. 1457 01:05:24,955 --> 01:05:27,288 - I told him I would tell everybody 1458 01:05:27,290 --> 01:05:31,025 Everything about him, I would tell the police, 1459 01:05:31,027 --> 01:05:32,827 And that I would tell the family. 1460 01:05:32,829 --> 01:05:35,963 - Then, according to lyle, his father said 1461 01:05:35,965 --> 01:05:38,833 Something that sounded like a threat. 1462 01:05:38,835 --> 01:05:42,303 - He said, "we all make choices in life, son. 1463 01:05:42,305 --> 01:05:46,207 "erik made his. You've made yours." 1464 01:05:46,209 --> 01:05:47,809 I thought we were in danger. 1465 01:05:47,811 --> 01:05:49,911 - And so, the brothers drove down to san diego 1466 01:05:49,913 --> 01:05:53,781 To buy the shotguns for protection, they said. 1467 01:05:53,783 --> 01:05:56,117 Two days later, said lyle, he and his father 1468 01:05:56,119 --> 01:05:58,519 Had another argument about the abuse, 1469 01:05:58,521 --> 01:06:02,724 After which lyle said his parents went into the den 1470 01:06:02,726 --> 01:06:07,662 And shut the door, and... - I thought they were 1471 01:06:07,664 --> 01:06:10,132 Going ahead with their plan to kill us. 1472 01:06:10,134 --> 01:06:15,003 - Remember, josé and kitty kept two rifles in the house. 1473 01:06:15,005 --> 01:06:16,604 - So what did you do? 1474 01:06:16,606 --> 01:06:20,141 - I ran upstairs to tell my brother that 1475 01:06:20,143 --> 01:06:23,077 It was happening now. - They ran out to the car, 1476 01:06:23,079 --> 01:06:26,614 Loaded their guns, and burst through the den door. 1477 01:06:26,616 --> 01:06:28,616 - I was just firing as I went into the room. 1478 01:06:28,618 --> 01:06:29,752 I just started firing. 1479 01:06:29,754 --> 01:06:31,819 - In what direction? - In front of me. 1480 01:06:31,821 --> 01:06:34,288 - What was in front of you? 1481 01:06:34,290 --> 01:06:35,723 - My parents. 1482 01:06:35,725 --> 01:06:39,762 - At some point, was your gun empty? 1483 01:06:39,764 --> 01:06:43,364 - Yes. I could see somebody, uh, 1484 01:06:43,366 --> 01:06:45,367 Moving-- seemed like moving in the direction 1485 01:06:45,369 --> 01:06:48,169 Of where my brother should be. 1486 01:06:48,171 --> 01:06:50,706 - Lyle said he returned to the car, reloaded, 1487 01:06:50,708 --> 01:06:52,907 And ran back into the house. 1488 01:06:52,909 --> 01:06:55,377 - And what did you do after you reloaded? 1489 01:07:09,527 --> 01:07:12,194 - I ran around and shot my mom. 1490 01:07:12,196 --> 01:07:15,130 - So, did they act while in the mistaken belief 1491 01:07:15,132 --> 01:07:17,398 They were defending their own lives? 1492 01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:18,733 Yes, said the defense. 1493 01:07:18,735 --> 01:07:21,736 A classic case of imperfect self-defense. 1494 01:07:21,738 --> 01:07:25,007 Perfect nonsense, said the prosecutor. 1495 01:07:25,009 --> 01:07:28,342 She grilled lyle on cross-examination. 1496 01:07:28,344 --> 01:07:30,478 - When you put the shotgun up against her left cheek 1497 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:34,081 And you pulled the trigger, did you love your mother? 1498 01:07:34,083 --> 01:07:35,149 - Yes. 1499 01:07:35,151 --> 01:07:39,154 - And was that an act of love, mr. Menendez? 1500 01:07:39,156 --> 01:07:41,556 - It was confusion and fear. 1501 01:07:41,558 --> 01:07:45,093 - You were afraid of her at that point? 1502 01:07:45,095 --> 01:07:48,830 - They slaughtered their mother in a way that was so cruel. 1503 01:07:48,832 --> 01:07:50,366 She got up to run, and they went out 1504 01:07:50,368 --> 01:07:51,899 And they reloaded, and they put the gun 1505 01:07:51,901 --> 01:07:54,702 Up to her cheek and blew her brains out. 1506 01:07:54,704 --> 01:07:57,439 I'm sorry-- that is the height of cruelty. 1507 01:07:57,441 --> 01:08:00,308 - What's more, observed reporter alan abrahamson... 1508 01:08:00,310 --> 01:08:01,643 - Let's count how many seconds 1509 01:08:01,645 --> 01:08:03,845 It might take to go out to the car. 1510 01:08:03,847 --> 01:08:07,849 Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk. 1511 01:08:07,851 --> 01:08:11,886 Grab the shotgun shell, put the shotgun shell in, 1512 01:08:11,888 --> 01:08:13,855 Run back in. 1513 01:08:13,857 --> 01:08:16,924 Remember, time is ticking, time is ticking. 1514 01:08:16,926 --> 01:08:19,561 You put the barrel of that shotgun 1515 01:08:19,563 --> 01:08:22,730 Against her cheek, and you pull. 1516 01:08:22,732 --> 01:08:26,601 That is intent. 1517 01:08:26,603 --> 01:08:29,471 No doubt about it. 1518 01:08:29,473 --> 01:08:31,005 - The prosecution believed the brothers were 1519 01:08:31,007 --> 01:08:33,741 Flat-out lying about the abuse 1520 01:08:33,743 --> 01:08:36,677 And the events leading up to the murders. 1521 01:08:36,679 --> 01:08:38,079 And as it turned out, 1522 01:08:38,081 --> 01:08:40,681 Their testimony gave the state a big opening. 1523 01:08:40,683 --> 01:08:42,083 - They offered their mental state 1524 01:08:42,085 --> 01:08:43,484 As a defense. 1525 01:08:43,486 --> 01:08:45,153 And when you offer your mental state as a defense, 1526 01:08:45,155 --> 01:08:48,957 You have waived your psychiatric patient privilege. 1527 01:08:48,959 --> 01:08:51,359 - The oziel tape-- remember that? 1528 01:08:51,361 --> 01:08:53,961 By testifying, the brothers have put their mental state 1529 01:08:53,963 --> 01:08:55,163 On center stage, 1530 01:08:55,165 --> 01:08:58,499 Meaning the tape was now fair game. 1531 01:08:58,501 --> 01:09:01,703 The defense played the tape to take the sting out of it. 1532 01:09:06,109 --> 01:09:08,577 - Detective zoeller, remember, had never heard the tape before, 1533 01:09:08,579 --> 01:09:10,578 And he was dumbfounded. 1534 01:09:10,580 --> 01:09:13,314 This was supposed to be a candid confession tape, 1535 01:09:13,316 --> 01:09:16,651 But on it, the brothers never once mentioned 1536 01:09:16,653 --> 01:09:20,322 The issue that was now the very core of their defense. 1537 01:09:20,324 --> 01:09:22,023 - Why did you ever murder your parents? 1538 01:09:23,126 --> 01:09:25,860 "oh, because they were sexually molesting us." 1539 01:09:25,862 --> 01:09:27,262 That never came out. 1540 01:09:27,264 --> 01:09:29,798 Why wouldn't he tell his therapist? 1541 01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,201 - Big deal? The prosecution thought so. 1542 01:09:33,203 --> 01:09:36,205 But by then, the jury had already heard many hours 1543 01:09:36,207 --> 01:09:39,607 Of tearful testimony about abuse. 1544 01:09:39,609 --> 01:09:42,611 And that is when, in December 1993, 1545 01:09:42,613 --> 01:09:45,346 They retired to consider a verdict. 1546 01:09:45,348 --> 01:09:47,415 - Well, we made a mistake right off the bat. 1547 01:09:47,417 --> 01:09:50,418 - Hazel thornton was on erik's jury. 1548 01:09:50,420 --> 01:09:54,089 - We took a show of hands 1549 01:09:54,091 --> 01:09:56,758 As to what level of guilt we thought they were. 1550 01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:00,695 And it became immediate that it was men against women, 1551 01:10:00,697 --> 01:10:03,097 Murder versus man-manslaughter. 1552 01:10:03,099 --> 01:10:04,900 - The main issue, said hazel, 1553 01:10:04,902 --> 01:10:07,101 Was the brothers' story of the abuse. 1554 01:10:07,103 --> 01:10:09,570 The women believed them. 1555 01:10:09,572 --> 01:10:12,039 The men did not. 1556 01:10:12,041 --> 01:10:14,642 Did discussions get heated? - Oh, yes. 1557 01:10:14,644 --> 01:10:17,778 The public thinks that the women were emotional 1558 01:10:17,780 --> 01:10:18,913 In the trial. 1559 01:10:18,915 --> 01:10:20,915 It was the men who were emotional. 1560 01:10:20,917 --> 01:10:22,651 They pounded their fists on the table, 1561 01:10:22,653 --> 01:10:26,120 They called us names, they yelled at us. 1562 01:10:26,122 --> 01:10:29,790 - Those tumultuous deliberations carried on into the new year. 1563 01:10:29,792 --> 01:10:31,792 And then, 1564 01:10:31,794 --> 01:10:36,131 A massive 6.7 earthquake shook southern california. 1565 01:10:36,133 --> 01:10:39,133 The backdrop against which the juries would deliver 1566 01:10:39,135 --> 01:10:43,337 A decision that shocked the world. 1567 01:10:43,339 --> 01:10:45,273 - On the heels of that deadly earthquake, 1568 01:10:45,275 --> 01:10:47,942 Another stunner is about to alter the course 1569 01:10:47,944 --> 01:10:50,078 Of the menendez case. 1570 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,481 Coming up, oj simpson. 1571 01:10:53,483 --> 01:10:55,816 That explosive case is about to cast a shadow 1572 01:10:55,818 --> 01:10:59,087 Over this one. 1573 01:10:59,089 --> 01:10:59,153 When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 1574 01:10:59,354 --> 01:11:10,566 ♪♪ 1575 01:11:10,568 --> 01:11:12,034 - The court finds-- 1576 01:11:12,036 --> 01:11:16,705 - After six months of trial, two juries, one result. 1577 01:11:16,707 --> 01:11:17,838 - Therefore, 1578 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,842 I find that the jury is hopelessly deadlocked, 1579 01:11:20,844 --> 01:11:24,580 And, uh, the court declares a mistrial. 1580 01:11:24,582 --> 01:11:27,381 - The juries couldn't make up their minds. 1581 01:11:27,383 --> 01:11:28,983 Nearly half of them on each panel 1582 01:11:28,985 --> 01:11:31,118 Voted for manslaughter. 1583 01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:34,855 Da gil garcetti vowed to retry the case. 1584 01:11:34,857 --> 01:11:37,391 - We have an ethical, a professional, 1585 01:11:37,393 --> 01:11:41,329 And moral responsibility to go forward with this case 1586 01:11:41,331 --> 01:11:44,265 As a first degree murder case. 1587 01:11:44,267 --> 01:11:47,668 - But before that second trial could begin, 1588 01:11:47,670 --> 01:11:49,671 Oj happened, 1589 01:11:49,673 --> 01:11:52,808 And suddenly, the stakes were even bigger. 1590 01:11:52,810 --> 01:11:55,743 - When oj simpson went home at the end of his trial, 1591 01:11:55,745 --> 01:11:58,080 It was very hard on the da's office. 1592 01:11:58,082 --> 01:12:00,548 We were, you know, nationally considered 1593 01:12:00,550 --> 01:12:02,751 To be kind of losers. 1594 01:12:02,753 --> 01:12:04,185 - The second menendez trial 1595 01:12:04,187 --> 01:12:07,221 Began just eight days after oj's acquittal, 1596 01:12:07,223 --> 01:12:10,091 With judge weisberg presiding again. 1597 01:12:10,093 --> 01:12:12,693 The same judge, the same case. 1598 01:12:12,695 --> 01:12:16,765 But this time, the trial was fundamentally different. 1599 01:12:16,767 --> 01:12:19,100 - The first major ruling judge weisberg made 1600 01:12:19,102 --> 01:12:21,636 Was no tv camera in the courtroom. 1601 01:12:21,638 --> 01:12:24,906 - This time, one jury for both brothers. 1602 01:12:24,908 --> 01:12:27,241 Judge weisberg also scaled back testimony 1603 01:12:27,243 --> 01:12:30,111 About the brothers' alleged physical and sexual abuse. 1604 01:12:30,113 --> 01:12:33,582 Cousin diane, for example, was able to testify-- 1605 01:12:33,584 --> 01:12:36,717 Just not about lyle telling her that his father 1606 01:12:36,719 --> 01:12:38,319 Was molesting him. 1607 01:12:38,321 --> 01:12:39,787 One reason that couldn't come in 1608 01:12:39,789 --> 01:12:41,590 Was because this time around, 1609 01:12:41,592 --> 01:12:43,592 Lyle didn't take the stand 1610 01:12:43,594 --> 01:12:46,994 To lay the foundation about abuse in the first place. 1611 01:12:46,996 --> 01:12:48,463 - In between the two trials, 1612 01:12:48,465 --> 01:12:50,465 There were allegations that he was asking people 1613 01:12:50,467 --> 01:12:52,466 To fabricate testimony. 1614 01:12:52,468 --> 01:12:54,401 - Letters surfaced after the first trial 1615 01:12:54,403 --> 01:12:57,471 In which lyle was alleged to have encouraged people 1616 01:12:57,473 --> 01:13:00,741 To lie for the defense. - So the defense decided 1617 01:13:00,743 --> 01:13:02,676 They couldn't put him on the witness stand, 1618 01:13:02,678 --> 01:13:04,211 So erik menendez had to carry the ball 1619 01:13:04,213 --> 01:13:05,480 For both brothers. 1620 01:13:05,482 --> 01:13:07,815 And he was a good witness, but he was not as strong 1621 01:13:07,817 --> 01:13:10,751 As lyle menendez had been at the first trial. 1622 01:13:10,753 --> 01:13:13,355 - And that expert testimony about the impact 1623 01:13:13,357 --> 01:13:16,223 Of the alleged abuse on the brothers' state of mind-- 1624 01:13:16,225 --> 01:13:20,094 Judge weisberg severely limited the number of experts 1625 01:13:20,096 --> 01:13:23,497 Because he felt their testimony was repetitive. 1626 01:13:23,499 --> 01:13:27,969 One not allowed to testify was dr. Vicary. 1627 01:13:27,971 --> 01:13:28,837 - I was shocked. 1628 01:13:28,839 --> 01:13:31,373 I said, "well, they've gutted the defense." 1629 01:13:31,375 --> 01:13:35,309 I mean, the-the-there is no defense without that. 1630 01:13:35,311 --> 01:13:37,178 - That specific ruling 1631 01:13:37,180 --> 01:13:39,046 Was in large part due to the objections 1632 01:13:39,048 --> 01:13:40,648 Raised by the new prosecutor 1633 01:13:40,650 --> 01:13:45,252 Leading the people's case, deputy da david conn. 1634 01:13:45,254 --> 01:13:48,255 - One thing that we have asked the judge to do 1635 01:13:48,257 --> 01:13:51,526 Is to limit the so-called abuse excuse. 1636 01:13:51,528 --> 01:13:54,328 - The, uh, approach that the prosecutor, david conn, 1637 01:13:54,330 --> 01:13:58,467 Took was to attack at every-- at every turn 1638 01:13:58,469 --> 01:14:01,335 And not give any free, uh, passes there. 1639 01:14:01,337 --> 01:14:04,004 - Andrew wolfberg is a lawyer today. 1640 01:14:04,006 --> 01:14:05,540 Back then, he was the youngest member 1641 01:14:05,542 --> 01:14:07,809 Of the menendez retrial jury. 1642 01:14:07,811 --> 01:14:09,210 - At the time, 1643 01:14:09,212 --> 01:14:10,811 The defense attorney was saying this was a family 1644 01:14:10,813 --> 01:14:14,015 That was win at all costs, the ends justify the means. 1645 01:14:14,017 --> 01:14:15,683 To say that their parents had abused them 1646 01:14:15,685 --> 01:14:18,619 Was almost like the ends justified the means. 1647 01:14:18,621 --> 01:14:21,756 "let's make up this story about abuse." 1648 01:14:21,758 --> 01:14:23,291 - But one thing jurors figured 1649 01:14:23,293 --> 01:14:26,495 Was not made up was that confession tape. 1650 01:14:26,497 --> 01:14:29,763 This time, the prosecution got to use that wildcard 1651 01:14:29,765 --> 01:14:33,168 The way they wanted to-- as their smoking gun. 1652 01:14:33,170 --> 01:14:35,036 And they highlighted a section where the brothers seemed 1653 01:14:35,038 --> 01:14:37,973 To have no remorse about what they had done. 1654 01:14:44,847 --> 01:14:47,648 - That really, just was, like, a punch in the gut. 1655 01:14:47,650 --> 01:14:49,783 - And then, just before the jury went out, 1656 01:14:49,785 --> 01:14:53,988 Judge weisberg's last ruling, and quite possibly, 1657 01:14:53,990 --> 01:14:57,258 The most important one of all. 1658 01:14:57,260 --> 01:14:58,525 - The jurors would not be allowed 1659 01:14:58,527 --> 01:15:01,395 To consider an imperfect self defense. 1660 01:15:01,397 --> 01:15:03,397 - Judge weisberg, basing his ruling 1661 01:15:03,399 --> 01:15:05,200 On a california supreme court decision 1662 01:15:05,202 --> 01:15:08,335 That came down after the first menendez trial, 1663 01:15:08,337 --> 01:15:11,338 Said imperfect self-defense didn't apply 1664 01:15:11,340 --> 01:15:15,676 Because the brothers initiated the confrontation 1665 01:15:15,678 --> 01:15:17,411 With their parents. 1666 01:15:17,413 --> 01:15:19,280 Do you think, in retrospect, had you been offered 1667 01:15:19,282 --> 01:15:21,148 Imperfect self-defense, 1668 01:15:21,150 --> 01:15:23,218 That you might've maybe started in a different place 1669 01:15:23,220 --> 01:15:25,152 Or come to a different conclusion? 1670 01:15:25,154 --> 01:15:26,887 - I'm pretty confident that we would not have 1671 01:15:26,889 --> 01:15:29,890 Because we literally started from first degree murder, 1672 01:15:29,892 --> 01:15:31,759 And when every element was satisfied, 1673 01:15:31,761 --> 01:15:33,094 We were done. 1674 01:15:33,096 --> 01:15:34,495 - This time around, 1675 01:15:34,497 --> 01:15:37,831 The deliberations were quicker, more congenial, 1676 01:15:37,833 --> 01:15:40,101 And certain. 1677 01:15:40,103 --> 01:15:42,369 - The verdict was-was guilty on all counts 1678 01:15:42,371 --> 01:15:44,371 With special circumstances. 1679 01:15:44,373 --> 01:15:46,974 - Guilty of first degree murder. 1680 01:15:46,976 --> 01:15:49,377 But the fates of lyle and eric menendez 1681 01:15:49,379 --> 01:15:51,312 Were not the only headline. 1682 01:15:51,314 --> 01:15:53,447 More came in the penalty phase. 1683 01:15:53,449 --> 01:15:55,583 Dr. Vicary finally got to testify 1684 01:15:55,585 --> 01:15:58,585 And under oath, he had to admit something. 1685 01:15:58,587 --> 01:16:00,322 - The drama involves this man, 1686 01:16:00,324 --> 01:16:02,523 Defense psychiatrist william vicary, 1687 01:16:02,525 --> 01:16:04,925 Who has disclosed that he deleted dozens of portions 1688 01:16:04,927 --> 01:16:06,127 Of his notes 1689 01:16:06,129 --> 01:16:07,728 Because quote, "leslie abramson 1690 01:16:07,730 --> 01:16:09,931 "told me this has to come out." 1691 01:16:09,933 --> 01:16:12,399 - What did it feel like to be you in that particular 1692 01:16:12,401 --> 01:16:16,270 Circumstance of your life? 1693 01:16:16,272 --> 01:16:18,339 - Well, it was very traumatic. 1694 01:16:18,341 --> 01:16:19,740 - Traumatic indeed. 1695 01:16:19,742 --> 01:16:22,009 The doctor said leslie abramson asked him 1696 01:16:22,011 --> 01:16:25,212 To delete notes she felt could be viewed as evidence 1697 01:16:25,214 --> 01:16:26,747 Of premeditation 1698 01:16:26,749 --> 01:16:30,117 And reluctantly, he said, he agreed. 1699 01:16:30,119 --> 01:16:32,820 The california medical board punished vicary-- 1700 01:16:32,822 --> 01:16:34,955 34 months probation. 1701 01:16:34,957 --> 01:16:37,559 Abramson disputed vicary's version of events 1702 01:16:37,561 --> 01:16:40,627 And after an investigation, the state bar, years later, 1703 01:16:40,629 --> 01:16:43,564 Cited insufficient evidence of violations 1704 01:16:43,566 --> 01:16:45,232 And closed her case. 1705 01:16:45,234 --> 01:16:48,103 In the end, all her efforts did not spare 1706 01:16:48,105 --> 01:16:51,372 The menendez brothers from a life sentence. 1707 01:16:51,374 --> 01:16:53,440 - I think this fairness has been drained 1708 01:16:53,442 --> 01:16:54,842 Outta the system. 1709 01:16:54,844 --> 01:16:56,176 - Decades later, that question, 1710 01:16:56,178 --> 01:16:57,911 Whether the second trial was fair, 1711 01:16:57,913 --> 01:17:00,248 Is still being debated. 1712 01:17:00,250 --> 01:17:02,250 - It's a tale of two trials. 1713 01:17:02,252 --> 01:17:04,051 The trials couldn't have been more different. 1714 01:17:04,053 --> 01:17:05,853 - Cliff gardner was the attorney appointed 1715 01:17:05,855 --> 01:17:07,721 To handle lyle's appeal. 1716 01:17:07,723 --> 01:17:10,125 - So it was sort of a one-two-three punch. 1717 01:17:10,127 --> 01:17:12,928 No source evidence, no lay-- no expert testimony, 1718 01:17:12,930 --> 01:17:14,862 And then your defense doesn't go to the jury. 1719 01:17:14,864 --> 01:17:16,665 - But that was the same judge in both trials. 1720 01:17:16,667 --> 01:17:17,865 - It was the same judge. 1721 01:17:17,867 --> 01:17:19,733 - So what's the explanation for the difference? 1722 01:17:19,735 --> 01:17:23,604 - It's, uh, it-it's a very good question. 1723 01:17:23,606 --> 01:17:25,806 I don't have an answer to it. 1724 01:17:25,808 --> 01:17:27,941 - In this audio of lyle's federal appeal hearing, 1725 01:17:27,943 --> 01:17:31,679 A judge also questioned why so many key rulings changed 1726 01:17:31,681 --> 01:17:33,815 In trial number two? 1727 01:17:43,292 --> 01:17:45,559 - Grounds to vacate their convictions? 1728 01:17:45,561 --> 01:17:47,227 And what did the brothers have to say 1729 01:17:47,229 --> 01:17:49,697 All these years later? 1730 01:17:49,699 --> 01:17:54,935 We'll ask lyle menendez, next. 1731 01:17:54,937 --> 01:17:56,271 - Coming up... 1732 01:17:56,273 --> 01:17:58,039 - The outside world saw 1733 01:17:58,041 --> 01:18:01,109 What they thought was evidence of premeditation. 1734 01:18:01,111 --> 01:18:02,242 - I'd have to say keep it. 1735 01:18:02,244 --> 01:18:04,811 It's just not really entirely accurate. 1736 01:18:04,813 --> 01:18:15,856 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 1737 01:18:15,858 --> 01:18:16,990 ♪♪ - welcome back. 1738 01:18:16,992 --> 01:18:19,593 Lyle and erik menendez were serving life sentences 1739 01:18:19,595 --> 01:18:20,928 For the double murder 1740 01:18:20,930 --> 01:18:23,131 Of their parents, jose and kitty. 1741 01:18:23,133 --> 01:18:25,999 But neither brother was budging from their story, 1742 01:18:26,001 --> 01:18:29,137 Insisting they feared for their own lives. 1743 01:18:29,139 --> 01:18:31,872 Would years in prison soften that stance? 1744 01:18:31,874 --> 01:18:34,609 We got a rare chance to interview lyle, 1745 01:18:34,611 --> 01:18:36,877 Asking him about that deadly night 1746 01:18:36,879 --> 01:18:39,146 And what still haunted him. 1747 01:18:39,148 --> 01:18:41,081 Here's keith morrison with the conclusion 1748 01:18:41,083 --> 01:18:44,418 Of "unthinkable: The menendez murders." 1749 01:18:44,420 --> 01:18:48,422 - In 2005, after years of failed appeals, 1750 01:18:48,424 --> 01:18:51,159 The menendez brothers' case went to the federal court. 1751 01:18:51,161 --> 01:18:55,028 It was their last chance. The court denied it, 1752 01:18:55,030 --> 01:18:58,365 Maintaining the state court made reasonable rulings 1753 01:18:58,367 --> 01:18:59,900 In light of the facts 1754 01:18:59,902 --> 01:19:02,771 And did not violate federal law. 1755 01:19:02,773 --> 01:19:04,905 Lyle menendez was 49 years old, 1756 01:19:04,907 --> 01:19:07,407 And had spent nearly half his life in prison 1757 01:19:07,409 --> 01:19:10,110 When he agreed to talk to us. 1758 01:19:10,112 --> 01:19:12,479 Hello? - Hello. 1759 01:19:12,481 --> 01:19:14,581 - So, here we are, all these years later. 1760 01:19:14,583 --> 01:19:17,584 We spoke with lyle menendez for more than two hours. 1761 01:19:17,586 --> 01:19:19,653 He was confident, articulate, 1762 01:19:19,655 --> 01:19:22,791 And 28 years later, still eager to explain 1763 01:19:22,793 --> 01:19:26,126 Why he and his brother killed their parents. 1764 01:19:26,128 --> 01:19:28,996 He shared intimate details about his childhood 1765 01:19:28,998 --> 01:19:30,797 And the betrayal he said he felt 1766 01:19:30,799 --> 01:19:33,601 When erik confided to him days before the murders 1767 01:19:33,603 --> 01:19:36,870 That their father was still molesting him. 1768 01:19:36,872 --> 01:19:39,340 - My father's rapes, I said nothing. 1769 01:19:39,342 --> 01:19:43,277 And I just feel like part of that pact I had 1770 01:19:43,279 --> 01:19:45,679 With my dad, and I'm-I'm keeping this secret. 1771 01:19:45,681 --> 01:19:50,151 And for you to have done this to my brother, it was like, 1772 01:19:50,153 --> 01:19:52,553 I kept my part of that sort of devil's pact, 1773 01:19:52,555 --> 01:19:55,757 And you didn't. You know, and-and my mother 1774 01:19:55,759 --> 01:19:58,025 To-- you know, you let your children 1775 01:19:58,027 --> 01:20:01,096 Wake up in the home of a child molester every day? 1776 01:20:01,098 --> 01:20:03,430 - Lyle testified in the trial that not only 1777 01:20:03,432 --> 01:20:06,100 Did his mother cover for her husband's actions, 1778 01:20:06,102 --> 01:20:08,635 She also sexually abused him. 1779 01:20:08,637 --> 01:20:10,971 More than a quarter century after the murders, 1780 01:20:10,973 --> 01:20:13,440 Those feelings of anger and hurt were 1781 01:20:13,442 --> 01:20:17,378 Still close to the surface. - My mother was very cruel. 1782 01:20:17,380 --> 01:20:18,980 - Really? - Uh, I believe-- 1783 01:20:18,982 --> 01:20:22,049 She just very much resented, uh, my brother and I 1784 01:20:22,051 --> 01:20:26,787 From early-early on. - As if you and erik 1785 01:20:26,789 --> 01:20:28,989 Had come between her and your father? 1786 01:20:28,991 --> 01:20:31,458 - Yes, exactly. 1787 01:20:31,460 --> 01:20:33,460 - We reminded him of what his prosecutors 1788 01:20:33,462 --> 01:20:35,130 Still say about him. 1789 01:20:35,132 --> 01:20:39,534 "that lyle is still trying to avoid some level 1790 01:20:39,536 --> 01:20:42,403 "of responsibility by blaming abuse 1791 01:20:42,405 --> 01:20:46,073 "when the abuse doesn't appear to have been so bad as to-- 1792 01:20:46,075 --> 01:20:48,476 "as to cause a person to do that." 1793 01:20:48,478 --> 01:20:50,944 - I would trade my entire defense 1794 01:20:50,946 --> 01:20:55,482 For a 30 second video of my father, uh, raping me. 1795 01:20:55,484 --> 01:20:57,417 I-I would trade my case for it 1796 01:20:57,419 --> 01:20:59,019 Because I think it's so sanitized 1797 01:20:59,021 --> 01:21:01,822 And so easy to use the word abuse. 1798 01:21:01,824 --> 01:21:04,391 "oh, abuse, the abuse wasn't so bad." 1799 01:21:04,393 --> 01:21:06,761 - Let's get down to the incident itself. 1800 01:21:06,763 --> 01:21:11,365 When did you and erik decide to kill your parents? 1801 01:21:11,367 --> 01:21:13,901 - Uh, we didn't decide to do it. 1802 01:21:13,903 --> 01:21:17,170 Uh, it was, uh, we finally, uh, just kinda 1803 01:21:17,172 --> 01:21:19,174 Got overwhelmed with this panic and emotion, 1804 01:21:19,176 --> 01:21:21,642 And-and made a decision to-to run in that room. 1805 01:21:21,644 --> 01:21:24,911 - The outside world saw what they thought 1806 01:21:24,913 --> 01:21:28,515 Was evidence of a lot of premeditation. 1807 01:21:28,517 --> 01:21:33,387 Um, using a friend's drivers license to, you know, 1808 01:21:33,389 --> 01:21:35,589 Hide the fact that you went to san diego 1809 01:21:35,591 --> 01:21:37,658 And got weapons. - I'd have to say, keith, 1810 01:21:37,660 --> 01:21:40,727 That there is-- you know, it's just not 1811 01:21:40,729 --> 01:21:42,396 Really entirely accurate. 1812 01:21:42,398 --> 01:21:44,531 I didn't have a california I.D., 1813 01:21:44,533 --> 01:21:46,467 So there was no way to purchase a weapon. 1814 01:21:46,469 --> 01:21:50,070 Uh, and-- other than my brother using this other kid's I.D. 1815 01:21:50,072 --> 01:21:53,674 - But no disputing it, they did buy guns in advance 1816 01:21:53,676 --> 01:21:55,809 With a stolen I.D., and there was 1817 01:21:55,811 --> 01:21:59,413 This irrefutable fact the prosecutor pointed out. 1818 01:21:59,415 --> 01:22:02,549 Lyle reloaded and fired that final shot 1819 01:22:02,551 --> 01:22:06,020 At his mother's face while she was still alive 1820 01:22:06,022 --> 01:22:09,289 And crawling desperately to get away. 1821 01:22:09,291 --> 01:22:11,792 - They saw that as the evidence 1822 01:22:11,794 --> 01:22:13,827 Of premeditation and cruelty. 1823 01:22:13,829 --> 01:22:17,297 - I certainly in the room wasn't making kind of decisions 1824 01:22:17,299 --> 01:22:19,299 In the chaotic situation like that. 1825 01:22:19,301 --> 01:22:22,569 But, you know, reflecting afterwards, you know, 1826 01:22:22,571 --> 01:22:26,240 Uh, it haunts me. It-it does haunt me. 1827 01:22:26,242 --> 01:22:28,575 - The other, uh, comment that would come up was, 1828 01:22:28,577 --> 01:22:30,644 "well, they-- you know, they could've just gone out 1829 01:22:30,646 --> 01:22:33,313 "and got in the car and driven away. 1830 01:22:33,315 --> 01:22:35,516 "you know, they-they didn't have to do this." 1831 01:22:35,518 --> 01:22:38,987 - A person like my father is not going to allow you 1832 01:22:38,989 --> 01:22:41,922 To just take something that will ruin his life 1833 01:22:41,924 --> 01:22:44,124 That he has so carefully crafted. 1834 01:22:44,126 --> 01:22:46,793 He's not going to. He's not going to. I mean-- 1835 01:22:46,795 --> 01:22:48,462 - No, but-but-but you could've left, 1836 01:22:48,464 --> 01:22:50,397 That's the point I'm trying to make. 1837 01:22:50,399 --> 01:22:51,999 - But leave and do what? Leave and just wait for 1838 01:22:52,001 --> 01:22:54,602 Yourself to be killed in a parking lot, I mean-- 1839 01:22:54,604 --> 01:22:55,936 - You really thought that would happen? 1840 01:22:55,938 --> 01:22:58,071 - Leave and tell who? - They didn't believe 1841 01:22:58,073 --> 01:23:00,073 Anyone would help them, said lyle. 1842 01:23:00,075 --> 01:23:02,710 Not even the police. Speaking of which, 1843 01:23:02,712 --> 01:23:05,212 That 9-1-1 call lyle made... 1844 01:23:10,220 --> 01:23:14,554 - You were so, uh, you know, um, grief stricken 1845 01:23:14,556 --> 01:23:16,556 On that call, 1846 01:23:16,558 --> 01:23:20,027 And lying at the same time. 1847 01:23:20,029 --> 01:23:22,629 - Yeah, I-- what hap-- uh, I don't think 1848 01:23:22,631 --> 01:23:26,500 I was grief stricken. I think I was just 1849 01:23:26,502 --> 01:23:29,569 Absolutely broken down with stress. 1850 01:23:29,571 --> 01:23:33,107 Both of us were just in such a state of trauma 1851 01:23:33,109 --> 01:23:35,976 That I just-- it just poured through on that call 1852 01:23:35,978 --> 01:23:37,845 And made it very easy to make that call, really. 1853 01:23:37,847 --> 01:23:39,713 - You know, but you could've told them. 1854 01:23:39,715 --> 01:23:42,449 Instead you mislead them. Why-why that? 1855 01:23:42,451 --> 01:23:47,387 - Well, I-I mean, I don't think, uh, I was going to 1856 01:23:47,389 --> 01:23:48,523 Tell the beverly hills police department that, 1857 01:23:48,525 --> 01:23:50,123 Uh, you know, I killed my parents 1858 01:23:50,125 --> 01:23:51,192 And here's why, and they were gonna go, 1859 01:23:51,194 --> 01:23:52,392 "okay, go back home." 1860 01:23:52,394 --> 01:23:55,395 So, just self preservation at that point. 1861 01:23:55,397 --> 01:23:58,399 - Lyle strongly denied the prosecution's claim 1862 01:23:58,401 --> 01:24:01,535 That he and erik killed their parents for money. 1863 01:24:01,537 --> 01:24:03,338 Furthermore, he said he didn't think 1864 01:24:03,340 --> 01:24:05,806 Their case should've even gone to trial. 1865 01:24:05,808 --> 01:24:07,541 - This case should've been settled. 1866 01:24:07,543 --> 01:24:11,144 Uh, there are like 200 to 300 patricide cases 1867 01:24:11,146 --> 01:24:13,214 A year where a parent is killed by a child, 1868 01:24:13,216 --> 01:24:15,482 And they are almost all related to abuse, 1869 01:24:15,484 --> 01:24:17,484 And they are almost all settled. 1870 01:24:17,486 --> 01:24:20,021 This case they picked out as different. 1871 01:24:20,023 --> 01:24:22,089 - Yeah, but, lyle, it was different. 1872 01:24:22,091 --> 01:24:25,292 Guys like you in places like you lived 1873 01:24:25,294 --> 01:24:29,162 And acts like you committed, I mean, this-- it's-- 1874 01:24:29,164 --> 01:24:30,897 This is a big splashy deal. 1875 01:24:30,899 --> 01:24:34,969 - Exactly, and I think that it was very easy 1876 01:24:34,971 --> 01:24:36,436 Because it was beverly hills-- my father had 1877 01:24:36,438 --> 01:24:40,374 A lot of money-- to sort of sell this headline 1878 01:24:40,376 --> 01:24:43,544 That these brothers killed for money. 1879 01:24:43,546 --> 01:24:46,847 - You haven't seen erik in how long? 1880 01:24:46,849 --> 01:24:51,284 - Wow... 1996. 1881 01:24:51,286 --> 01:24:56,089 - Hmm. Getting to be a long time. 1882 01:24:58,328 --> 01:25:01,127 - Yeah. I miss my brother every day. 1883 01:25:01,129 --> 01:25:04,531 - Erik menendez declined our interview request. 1884 01:25:04,533 --> 01:25:07,601 At the time, he'd been married for 18 years, 1885 01:25:07,603 --> 01:25:09,336 Lyle for 14. 1886 01:25:09,338 --> 01:25:12,206 And remember, erik had said both he and his brother 1887 01:25:12,208 --> 01:25:14,741 Wanted to pursue careers in politics. 1888 01:25:14,743 --> 01:25:17,611 In a highly unusual way, they've done it... 1889 01:25:17,613 --> 01:25:19,880 Sort of. Erik started a life care 1890 01:25:19,882 --> 01:25:21,948 And hospice program for inmates 1891 01:25:21,950 --> 01:25:23,950 At the richard donovan correctional facility 1892 01:25:23,952 --> 01:25:27,354 Near san diego. And 500 miles north, 1893 01:25:27,356 --> 01:25:30,490 Lyle was president of the inmate government 1894 01:25:30,492 --> 01:25:33,027 At mule creek state prison. 1895 01:25:33,029 --> 01:25:37,297 - I know it's going to be, uh, a suffering for me, 1896 01:25:37,299 --> 01:25:39,966 But I feel like, uh, I can find 1897 01:25:39,968 --> 01:25:41,701 Some purpose here. 1898 01:25:41,703 --> 01:25:45,505 - Then, in February 2018, a reunion of sorts. 1899 01:25:45,507 --> 01:25:47,774 Lyle was moved to the same facility 1900 01:25:47,776 --> 01:25:50,511 Where erik was serving his sentence. 1901 01:25:50,513 --> 01:25:53,847 They were even housed in the same unit. 1902 01:25:53,849 --> 01:25:55,716 Lyle's former appellate attorney told us 1903 01:25:55,718 --> 01:25:58,852 If the brothers can produce new evidence of the abuse, 1904 01:25:58,854 --> 01:26:01,088 It would be the first step toward perhaps 1905 01:26:01,090 --> 01:26:03,289 Getting a third trial. 1906 01:26:03,291 --> 01:26:05,792 Even he admits it's a long shot, 1907 01:26:05,794 --> 01:26:07,595 But if it did happen, 1908 01:26:07,597 --> 01:26:11,264 Two people surely wouldn't be there. 1909 01:26:11,266 --> 01:26:12,999 Defense attorney leslie abramson 1910 01:26:13,001 --> 01:26:14,268 Is retired from law 1911 01:26:14,270 --> 01:26:17,337 And did not respond to our interview request. 1912 01:26:17,339 --> 01:26:20,607 And as for prosecutor pam bozanich... 1913 01:26:20,609 --> 01:26:22,676 You really think that this kind of wrecked your career? 1914 01:26:22,678 --> 01:26:24,278 - Oh, it did. Of course it did, 1915 01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,613 But it's okay because if I'd won the case 1916 01:26:26,615 --> 01:26:28,348 I probably never would've been a mother. 1917 01:26:28,350 --> 01:26:30,151 I probably would've gone on some book tour or something 1918 01:26:30,153 --> 01:26:32,819 And I wouldn't be natalie's mom. 1919 01:26:32,821 --> 01:26:35,223 And so, it does have a happy ending. 1920 01:26:35,225 --> 01:26:37,091 - Before she left the d.A.'s office, 1921 01:26:37,093 --> 01:26:39,426 Pam bozanich took something with her... 1922 01:26:39,428 --> 01:26:43,563 A picture of kitty. Not this one, no. 1923 01:26:43,565 --> 01:26:46,833 She took one from the crime scene. 1924 01:26:46,835 --> 01:26:48,902 - She had blue eyes, and one little blue eye is open 1925 01:26:48,904 --> 01:26:50,403 And the other one's gone. 1926 01:26:50,405 --> 01:26:51,506 You might think I'm a little crazy 1927 01:26:51,508 --> 01:26:54,374 To keep that picture, but it's a reminder 1928 01:26:54,376 --> 01:26:56,643 Of what those horrible children did to her. 1929 01:26:56,645 --> 01:26:58,979 Can you imagine giving birth 1930 01:26:58,981 --> 01:27:02,115 And then giving everything you have to these two kids, 1931 01:27:02,117 --> 01:27:03,650 And they kill you? 1932 01:27:03,652 --> 01:27:05,852 - The menendez brothers have supporters 1933 01:27:05,854 --> 01:27:08,456 Who hope they get out of prison one day. 1934 01:27:08,458 --> 01:27:11,091 When we last checked, lyle's facebook followers 1935 01:27:11,093 --> 01:27:13,126 Numbered in the thousands. 1936 01:27:13,128 --> 01:27:16,196 Fair to say pam bozanich is not one of them. 1937 01:27:16,198 --> 01:27:19,332 - Life in prison for those two is just fine. 1938 01:27:19,334 --> 01:27:23,336 I hope they live a long, long life. 1939 01:27:23,338 --> 01:27:24,271 - That's all for this edition 1940 01:27:24,273 --> 01:27:26,406 Of "dateline: Secrets uncovered." 1941 01:27:26,408 --> 01:27:28,809 I'm kate snow. Thank you for watching.