1 00:00:12,812 --> 00:00:14,079 - I'm craig melvin, 2 00:00:14,081 --> 00:00:16,382 And this is "dateline: Secrets uncovered". 3 00:00:18,218 --> 00:00:19,752 - It was wrong 4 00:00:19,754 --> 00:00:22,688 And I will never forgive myself. 5 00:00:24,491 --> 00:00:26,625 I am her closest friend. 6 00:00:26,627 --> 00:00:28,827 I mean, the worst kind of betrayal. 7 00:00:30,297 --> 00:00:31,563 I felt awful. 8 00:00:31,565 --> 00:00:33,365 How could I have done that to her? 9 00:00:33,367 --> 00:00:37,236 - They were college sweethearts married 13 years. 10 00:00:37,238 --> 00:00:39,304 Then, the mystery started. 11 00:00:39,306 --> 00:00:40,572 - She asked, "dad, where's mom?" 12 00:00:40,574 --> 00:00:42,274 And I said, 13 00:00:42,276 --> 00:00:44,242 "mom didn't come home last night." 14 00:00:44,244 --> 00:00:47,179 - A drive to the mall and she vanished. 15 00:00:47,181 --> 00:00:48,380 - We were scared to death. 16 00:00:48,382 --> 00:00:50,515 - He was alone with three kids. 17 00:00:50,517 --> 00:00:52,584 - That's probably the most difficult thing 18 00:00:52,586 --> 00:00:54,319 I've ever had to do. 19 00:00:54,321 --> 00:00:57,189 - A grieving husband, a missing wife, 20 00:00:57,191 --> 00:01:00,859 Turns out, both of them had secret lives. 21 00:01:00,861 --> 00:01:02,794 - The first thing I thought was, 22 00:01:02,796 --> 00:01:04,196 "these people on the game." 23 00:01:04,198 --> 00:01:05,497 - Her secret? 24 00:01:05,499 --> 00:01:08,467 An online fantasy game with a mystery man 25 00:01:08,469 --> 00:01:10,736 Who was very real. 26 00:01:10,738 --> 00:01:12,270 - Maybe she met up with somebody else 27 00:01:12,272 --> 00:01:13,905 To start a new life. 28 00:01:13,907 --> 00:01:16,708 - His secret involved romance too. 29 00:01:16,710 --> 00:01:18,009 - It was eating me up alive. 30 00:01:18,011 --> 00:01:19,611 - And the best friend? 31 00:01:19,613 --> 00:01:21,346 What was she hiding? 32 00:01:21,348 --> 00:01:23,148 - My world was crumbling. 33 00:01:23,150 --> 00:01:26,751 - Love, betrayal, and maybe murder. 34 00:01:26,753 --> 00:01:28,220 - I'm scared to my death 35 00:01:28,222 --> 00:01:29,754 That they're gonna send me to jail. 36 00:01:29,756 --> 00:01:33,025 - You can't take back what you've done. 37 00:01:33,027 --> 00:01:34,860 - You never know what's goin' on next door. 38 00:01:34,862 --> 00:01:42,834 ♪♪ 39 00:01:42,836 --> 00:01:46,505 - Hello, and welcome to "dateline: Secrets uncovered". 40 00:01:46,507 --> 00:01:50,075 Jen and remy ramsaran, in love since college, 41 00:01:50,077 --> 00:01:52,377 Were busy rearing their three children. 42 00:01:52,379 --> 00:01:55,814 Then, one day jen disappeared. 43 00:01:55,816 --> 00:01:57,049 Turns out, 44 00:01:57,051 --> 00:01:59,317 There were secrets in this marriage. 45 00:01:59,319 --> 00:02:03,588 Jen was escaping into a fantasy video game. 46 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:04,890 And remy? 47 00:02:04,892 --> 00:02:07,859 He was playing games of a different sort. 48 00:02:07,861 --> 00:02:11,329 Now, authorities had a very real mystery on their hands. 49 00:02:11,331 --> 00:02:14,967 Here's andrea canning with "secret lives". 50 00:02:18,805 --> 00:02:22,141 - It was two weeks before christmas in 2012 51 00:02:22,143 --> 00:02:24,543 When a sudden disappearance sent a chill 52 00:02:24,545 --> 00:02:26,378 Through this sleepy town. 53 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:28,747 - She was going to buy her daughter a dress 54 00:02:28,749 --> 00:02:31,483 For her christmas concert. 55 00:02:31,485 --> 00:02:33,718 - A young mother on a 60 mile journey 56 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,521 Through winding backcountry roads. 57 00:02:36,523 --> 00:02:38,757 - When do you start to get a little worried? 58 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:41,159 - Right around that time once it started getting dark. 59 00:02:41,161 --> 00:02:42,828 - Well, he actually called me 60 00:02:42,830 --> 00:02:44,796 And asked if I had heard from her, 61 00:02:44,798 --> 00:02:46,164 And I said, "no". 62 00:02:46,166 --> 00:02:48,534 - I just had a bad feeling. I just didn't know. 63 00:02:53,073 --> 00:02:56,575 - Jennifer ramsaran, wife and mother of three, 64 00:02:56,577 --> 00:02:58,310 Had vanished. 65 00:02:58,312 --> 00:03:01,713 - A nightmare. A nightmare. 66 00:03:01,715 --> 00:03:03,782 - And before the nightmare was over, 67 00:03:03,784 --> 00:03:06,318 Secrets would come tumbling out. 68 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,053 The kind that make you wonder 69 00:03:08,055 --> 00:03:10,722 If you ever really know anyone at all. 70 00:03:10,724 --> 00:03:13,058 - Did this kind of play out almost like a novel? 71 00:03:13,060 --> 00:03:14,960 - It could have been a made for tv movie script. 72 00:03:14,962 --> 00:03:17,796 Marriage affairs, sex, nudity, 73 00:03:17,798 --> 00:03:20,031 Sexting, social media, 74 00:03:20,033 --> 00:03:22,067 Misleading the police, it's got everything. 75 00:03:22,069 --> 00:03:31,810 ♪♪ 76 00:03:31,812 --> 00:03:32,878 - Where it all began 77 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,547 Would be a picture-perfect setting for a movie. 78 00:03:35,549 --> 00:03:38,083 Nestled in the backwoods of upstate new york 79 00:03:38,085 --> 00:03:41,787 Is a town so small it barely registers 2,500 residents. 80 00:03:43,156 --> 00:03:45,157 It's called new berlin. 81 00:03:45,159 --> 00:03:46,858 Here, family is everything 82 00:03:46,860 --> 00:03:49,294 And neighbors still help neighbors. 83 00:03:49,296 --> 00:03:50,862 - This is a great place to raise a family. 84 00:03:50,864 --> 00:03:52,464 - Absolutely! 85 00:03:52,466 --> 00:03:54,967 We found a beautiful home right next to chenango lake. 86 00:03:57,171 --> 00:04:00,605 - Remy and jen ramsaran had been married 13 years; 87 00:04:00,607 --> 00:04:02,474 They were college sweethearts. 88 00:04:02,476 --> 00:04:05,010 - It's not every day you come across someone 89 00:04:05,012 --> 00:04:09,314 That has and wants the same exact thing that you do 90 00:04:09,316 --> 00:04:11,249 Ten years down the road, five years down the road. 91 00:04:11,251 --> 00:04:14,319 - What was it that you fell for the most about her? 92 00:04:15,822 --> 00:04:19,557 - Her personality, it was special. 93 00:04:19,559 --> 00:04:21,559 - Eileen sayles and her husband and daughters 94 00:04:21,561 --> 00:04:24,263 Were close friends with the ramsaran family. 95 00:04:24,265 --> 00:04:26,464 Eileen and jen met through girl scouts 96 00:04:26,466 --> 00:04:28,767 When eileen was a troop leader. 97 00:04:28,769 --> 00:04:30,368 - She was so friendly 98 00:04:30,370 --> 00:04:33,271 And you felt instantly comfortable with her. 99 00:04:33,273 --> 00:04:34,472 She was very welcoming. 100 00:04:34,474 --> 00:04:37,575 She had that personality. 101 00:04:37,577 --> 00:04:40,211 - To eileen, and everyone who knew the couple, 102 00:04:40,213 --> 00:04:42,247 Jen was remy's opposite. 103 00:04:42,249 --> 00:04:45,950 She was sweet and quiet, he was loud and boisterous. 104 00:04:45,952 --> 00:04:47,319 - That's how I am. 105 00:04:47,321 --> 00:04:49,888 In fact, there's so many people that would walk up to my wife 106 00:04:49,890 --> 00:04:52,090 And go, "I'm so sorry. 107 00:04:52,092 --> 00:04:53,325 "how do you put up with him?" 108 00:04:53,327 --> 00:04:54,293 - Has anyone ever described you 109 00:04:54,295 --> 00:04:56,828 As quirky or odd or a goofball? 110 00:04:56,830 --> 00:04:58,430 - Absolutely. 111 00:04:58,432 --> 00:04:59,631 Including jen 112 00:04:59,633 --> 00:05:02,901 And probably anyone that's ever met me. 113 00:05:02,903 --> 00:05:04,836 - Remy is a real force. - Yes. 114 00:05:04,838 --> 00:05:06,705 We knew when he walked in the room. 115 00:05:06,707 --> 00:05:08,973 At some points you're like, "oh, here comes remy." 116 00:05:08,975 --> 00:05:10,842 You know? 117 00:05:10,844 --> 00:05:13,244 - But their opposites attract relationship 118 00:05:13,246 --> 00:05:15,046 Somehow just worked. 119 00:05:15,048 --> 00:05:18,416 Remy made a good salary as an ibm project manager, 120 00:05:18,418 --> 00:05:21,119 And jen seemed happy being a stay-at-home mom 121 00:05:21,121 --> 00:05:22,954 To their two daughters and a son, 122 00:05:22,956 --> 00:05:25,323 Says childhood friend teresa leiser. 123 00:05:25,325 --> 00:05:26,725 - That's pretty much the biggest thing 124 00:05:26,727 --> 00:05:28,460 That she talked about was her kids. 125 00:05:28,462 --> 00:05:30,428 - Jen was a Sunday school teacher, 126 00:05:30,430 --> 00:05:32,997 Girl scout troop leader. - Yes. 127 00:05:32,999 --> 00:05:35,400 - Knitting instructor. - Yes. 128 00:05:35,402 --> 00:05:37,869 She was also very good at cooking. 129 00:05:37,871 --> 00:05:40,271 - Very martha stewart? - Yes, mm-hmm. 130 00:05:40,273 --> 00:05:42,474 - Remy was focused on fitness, 131 00:05:42,476 --> 00:05:44,175 And he had big goals. 132 00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:47,011 - If you wanna attain anything in life, 133 00:05:47,013 --> 00:05:48,480 You have to have a plan. 134 00:05:48,482 --> 00:05:50,982 - His plan was to run marathons, 135 00:05:50,984 --> 00:05:52,450 Lots of them. 136 00:05:52,452 --> 00:05:55,120 - 26 marathons, and I was sponsored. 137 00:05:55,122 --> 00:05:57,022 - In one year? - Yeah. 138 00:05:57,024 --> 00:05:59,291 - 26 marathons? - Yes, ma'am. 139 00:05:59,293 --> 00:06:01,659 - Remy wanted to get everyone in shape, 140 00:06:01,661 --> 00:06:04,363 Including jen and her friend eileen. 141 00:06:04,365 --> 00:06:05,831 - I started working out, 142 00:06:05,833 --> 00:06:09,167 Um, and then he had mentioned running. 143 00:06:09,169 --> 00:06:11,703 - So running became a family affair. 144 00:06:11,705 --> 00:06:13,772 Eileen and remy would run the races 145 00:06:13,774 --> 00:06:15,574 And jen and the kids would cheer them on 146 00:06:15,576 --> 00:06:17,175 At the finish line. 147 00:06:17,177 --> 00:06:20,112 But as remy spent more time training for marathons, 148 00:06:20,114 --> 00:06:24,116 Jen immersed herself in a competition of her own. 149 00:06:24,118 --> 00:06:26,518 She started paying an online game called 150 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,453 "kingdoms of camelot", 151 00:06:28,455 --> 00:06:30,121 Where players from all over the world 152 00:06:30,123 --> 00:06:31,589 Take on medieval roles 153 00:06:31,591 --> 00:06:34,192 And team up to wage battles together. 154 00:06:34,194 --> 00:06:36,494 - She would show me, like, pictures of her castle 155 00:06:36,496 --> 00:06:39,564 And her kingdom that she was building 156 00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:40,999 On the phone. 157 00:06:41,001 --> 00:06:43,468 - But on that December day in 2012 158 00:06:43,470 --> 00:06:45,537 With christmas right around the corner, 159 00:06:45,539 --> 00:06:48,940 Jen was focused on one thing: Her daughter. 160 00:06:48,942 --> 00:06:50,408 - That morning of the 11th, 161 00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:52,544 She was supposed to go to syracuse. 162 00:06:52,546 --> 00:06:55,046 - The big city with a big shopping center, 163 00:06:55,048 --> 00:06:57,215 And plenty of stores to choose from. 164 00:06:57,217 --> 00:06:58,683 Jen planned to buy her daughter 165 00:06:58,685 --> 00:07:01,085 That new dress for her concert. 166 00:07:01,087 --> 00:07:04,756 But day turned to night, jen didn't return home. 167 00:07:04,758 --> 00:07:06,257 Remy called her cell, 168 00:07:06,259 --> 00:07:08,960 Sent text messages, heard nothing back. 169 00:07:08,962 --> 00:07:11,362 So he decided to call the police. 170 00:07:11,364 --> 00:07:14,566 - I told 'em that my wife's a few hours late, 171 00:07:14,568 --> 00:07:15,633 But the reason I'm worried 172 00:07:15,635 --> 00:07:17,902 Is I haven't heard from her since about 11:00 173 00:07:17,904 --> 00:07:19,871 When she left, which is highly unusual. 174 00:07:28,182 --> 00:07:30,548 - What are the scenarios playing out in your head? 175 00:07:30,550 --> 00:07:32,317 - Car accident was the big one. 176 00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:35,753 I really thought some type of car accident. 177 00:07:35,755 --> 00:07:36,988 - Are you able to sleep at all? 178 00:07:36,990 --> 00:07:39,357 - Oh no, I was up all night. 179 00:07:39,359 --> 00:07:41,092 - The thing was, there were no reports 180 00:07:41,094 --> 00:07:43,261 Of any car accidents in the area, 181 00:07:43,263 --> 00:07:47,265 And no sightings of jen at the local hospitals. 182 00:07:47,267 --> 00:07:49,701 What had happened to jen ramsaran? 183 00:07:51,505 --> 00:07:53,004 - Coming up... 184 00:07:53,006 --> 00:07:55,373 The clues begin piling up. 185 00:07:59,145 --> 00:08:02,113 When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 186 00:08:05,684 --> 00:08:12,423 ♪♪ 187 00:08:12,425 --> 00:08:16,194 - It had been a long night of waiting, wondering, 188 00:08:16,196 --> 00:08:18,062 And now it was morning. 189 00:08:18,064 --> 00:08:20,031 Jen ramsaran had still not returned 190 00:08:20,033 --> 00:08:22,066 From that shopping trip to the mall. 191 00:08:22,068 --> 00:08:25,436 The kids were waking and asking. 192 00:08:25,438 --> 00:08:26,738 - "dad, where's mom?" 193 00:08:26,740 --> 00:08:28,506 And I said, 194 00:08:28,508 --> 00:08:29,708 "mom didn't come home last night. 195 00:08:29,710 --> 00:08:31,509 "I'm kind of worried, I called the police." 196 00:08:31,511 --> 00:08:34,112 - Remy made breakfast and told his children, 197 00:08:34,114 --> 00:08:37,949 Ages thirteen, eight, and six, not to worry. 198 00:08:37,951 --> 00:08:39,017 - "mom will probably be home 199 00:08:39,019 --> 00:08:40,785 "by the time you guys come home from school. 200 00:08:40,787 --> 00:08:42,620 "she's probably still out shopping and stuff." 201 00:08:42,622 --> 00:08:44,255 - Did you believe that? 202 00:08:44,257 --> 00:08:46,524 - That was my hope. 203 00:08:46,526 --> 00:08:47,859 - But did you believe it? 204 00:08:47,861 --> 00:08:49,594 - I didn't know what to believe. 205 00:08:49,596 --> 00:08:52,130 - He started calling everyone in their circle. 206 00:08:52,132 --> 00:08:54,266 Had anyone heard from jen? 207 00:08:54,268 --> 00:08:56,668 - At that point, I was on the phone 208 00:08:56,670 --> 00:08:58,369 With many of my friends, 209 00:08:58,371 --> 00:09:02,541 Of our mutual friends, and goin' out of my mind. 210 00:09:02,543 --> 00:09:05,843 - Remy's best friend, jason wicks, had an idea. 211 00:09:05,845 --> 00:09:07,712 - After he had told me about jen missing, 212 00:09:07,714 --> 00:09:09,747 I was talking with some of the guys at work. 213 00:09:09,749 --> 00:09:11,216 A couple people asked me if they had tried 214 00:09:11,218 --> 00:09:13,351 The find my iphone app. 215 00:09:13,353 --> 00:09:16,555 So I called him, "remy, did you try this?" 216 00:09:16,557 --> 00:09:18,489 - After driving the kids to school, 217 00:09:18,491 --> 00:09:21,726 Remy headed straight to the new berlin police department. 218 00:09:21,728 --> 00:09:23,561 While talking with the police chief, 219 00:09:23,563 --> 00:09:25,363 Remy tried the app. 220 00:09:25,365 --> 00:09:29,601 - And lo and behold, it connected to her iphone. 221 00:09:29,603 --> 00:09:31,369 - You figured out where her iphone was? 222 00:09:31,371 --> 00:09:34,439 - Yeah-- oh, right there at the police station with him 223 00:09:34,441 --> 00:09:37,642 And, um, it looked like the phone was moving. 224 00:09:37,644 --> 00:09:39,077 And I was freaking out. 225 00:09:39,079 --> 00:09:42,113 - The spot was several miles outside of new berlin, 226 00:09:42,115 --> 00:09:43,881 And they called in richard cobb, 227 00:09:43,883 --> 00:09:44,916 Then a detective 228 00:09:44,918 --> 00:09:46,651 With the chenango county sheriff's office. 229 00:09:46,653 --> 00:09:49,354 - It did show a location of jennifer's phone 230 00:09:49,356 --> 00:09:50,655 On, uh, 23 231 00:09:50,657 --> 00:09:52,023 At the intersection of moon hill road 232 00:09:52,025 --> 00:09:53,524 In the town of plymouth. 233 00:09:53,526 --> 00:09:55,760 - Officers headed there, looked around, 234 00:09:55,762 --> 00:09:57,529 And found nothing. 235 00:09:57,531 --> 00:10:00,565 Frustrated, remy decided to go look for himself. 236 00:10:00,567 --> 00:10:01,899 He got out of the car 237 00:10:01,901 --> 00:10:04,068 And opened the find my iphone app. 238 00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:06,337 - I'm hitting the "play sound", "play sound". 239 00:10:06,339 --> 00:10:07,672 [cell phone dinging] 240 00:10:07,674 --> 00:10:09,808 And it's a high shrieking, loud sound. 241 00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:12,076 And I walked the bank 242 00:10:12,078 --> 00:10:13,278 And I didn't hear anything yet, 243 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,115 And then I crossed the street and I started hearing it. 244 00:10:17,117 --> 00:10:19,684 And I looked, then I saw it. 245 00:10:19,686 --> 00:10:21,486 I immediately called 911. 246 00:10:35,302 --> 00:10:36,901 - Where exactly was it found? 247 00:10:36,903 --> 00:10:38,903 - Uh, it was kind of right over in that area. 248 00:10:38,905 --> 00:10:40,471 Uh, it was-it's a little more weedy now 249 00:10:40,473 --> 00:10:41,906 Than it was then. 250 00:10:41,908 --> 00:10:43,708 Uh, but it was amongst some weeds, 251 00:10:43,710 --> 00:10:45,510 Some shorter weeds, and some rocks. 252 00:10:45,512 --> 00:10:48,246 - You must have felt like, "we have a key piece of evidence 253 00:10:48,248 --> 00:10:49,981 "pretty quickly in this disappearance." 254 00:10:49,983 --> 00:10:51,582 - You know, obviously it was key evidence, 255 00:10:51,584 --> 00:10:53,051 It was the first, 256 00:10:53,053 --> 00:10:54,619 Uh, real physical clue that we had 257 00:10:54,621 --> 00:10:56,788 In the investigation. 258 00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:59,791 - There was no sign of jen or her van. 259 00:10:59,793 --> 00:11:02,060 So how did the phone end up here? 260 00:11:02,062 --> 00:11:04,929 So far this was just a missing person's case, 261 00:11:04,931 --> 00:11:07,999 It didn't necessarily mean there had been foul play. 262 00:11:08,001 --> 00:11:10,334 Maybe jen herself ditched the phone. 263 00:11:10,336 --> 00:11:13,471 - It certainly wasn't outside the realm of possibility 264 00:11:13,473 --> 00:11:15,874 That maybe she had decided to, 265 00:11:15,876 --> 00:11:18,142 Uh, leave home for a time frame 266 00:11:18,144 --> 00:11:20,478 And meet up with somebody else. 267 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,380 - Remy says, it crossed his mind. 268 00:11:22,382 --> 00:11:24,549 Maybe jen had simply left him. 269 00:11:24,551 --> 00:11:25,983 Inside the house, 270 00:11:25,985 --> 00:11:28,886 He found something in the trash that seemed odd. 271 00:11:28,888 --> 00:11:31,222 - Q-tips of putting makeup on. 272 00:11:31,224 --> 00:11:34,125 Jen had cut her hair some additional length, 273 00:11:34,127 --> 00:11:36,428 And some of her older hair with the new color. 274 00:11:36,430 --> 00:11:38,930 - He told the detective that in recent months, 275 00:11:38,932 --> 00:11:40,798 Jen seemed to be changing. 276 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,101 She spent more time chatting online, 277 00:11:43,103 --> 00:11:45,236 Immersed in that fantasy world, 278 00:11:45,238 --> 00:11:48,673 And she'd become strangely focused on her looks. 279 00:11:48,675 --> 00:11:49,907 - She started putting on makeup. 280 00:11:49,909 --> 00:11:52,577 This is not what my wife normally looks like. 281 00:11:52,579 --> 00:11:54,445 - But it seemed too far-fetched. 282 00:11:54,447 --> 00:11:57,315 Remy thought jen would never abandon her kids. 283 00:11:57,317 --> 00:12:00,017 - She would never do that. Not to the kids, no way. 284 00:12:00,019 --> 00:12:02,420 - Jen's best friend, eileen agreed. 285 00:12:02,422 --> 00:12:06,457 To her, a discarded phone was a very bad sign. 286 00:12:06,459 --> 00:12:08,392 - He said, "I found her phone." 287 00:12:08,394 --> 00:12:10,661 And I said, "oh, my god." 288 00:12:10,663 --> 00:12:14,199 I couldn't believe it, my heart sunk. 289 00:12:14,201 --> 00:12:16,601 - And the more detective cobb thought about it, 290 00:12:16,603 --> 00:12:19,270 The more it seemed like someone other than jen 291 00:12:19,272 --> 00:12:20,805 Had ditched the cell phone. 292 00:12:20,807 --> 00:12:22,406 - If she wanted to get away from her husband 293 00:12:22,408 --> 00:12:24,342 And her family for a day or two, 294 00:12:24,344 --> 00:12:27,245 Um, and, you know, wanted no ties, 295 00:12:27,247 --> 00:12:28,946 She could have ditched the phone anywhere. 296 00:12:28,948 --> 00:12:30,215 - Or just turned her phone off. 297 00:12:30,217 --> 00:12:32,550 - Absolutely, yeah. 298 00:12:32,552 --> 00:12:35,753 - Another day passed, and then another, 299 00:12:35,755 --> 00:12:37,155 No jen. 300 00:12:37,157 --> 00:12:40,625 Then, on day five, a major discovery. 301 00:12:40,627 --> 00:12:43,795 It happened when jen's father was driving around town 302 00:12:43,797 --> 00:12:46,297 Looking for any sign of his daughter. 303 00:12:57,277 --> 00:12:59,277 - It was jen's red van. 304 00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:01,813 It had been abandoned here in this apartment complex 305 00:13:01,815 --> 00:13:03,581 Eight miles from her home. 306 00:13:03,583 --> 00:13:05,850 - That must have been just an awful, awful discovery 307 00:13:05,852 --> 00:13:07,919 For her father. - I'm sure it was. 308 00:13:07,921 --> 00:13:10,488 - The van was empty, 309 00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:14,058 But inside there were spots of blood. 310 00:13:14,060 --> 00:13:17,161 - Are all your worst fears being realized? 311 00:13:17,163 --> 00:13:18,930 - Absolutely, yeah. 312 00:13:18,932 --> 00:13:21,265 Devastated, absolutely devastated. 313 00:13:21,267 --> 00:13:22,267 Shocked. 314 00:13:22,269 --> 00:13:24,235 - Did you start to fear at that point 315 00:13:24,237 --> 00:13:26,103 That jennifer is never coming home? 316 00:13:26,105 --> 00:13:27,305 - Whatever was going on here 317 00:13:27,307 --> 00:13:29,874 Was probably not gonna be a good outcome. 318 00:13:29,876 --> 00:13:31,175 There's two questions really: 319 00:13:31,177 --> 00:13:33,544 Uh, where is jennifer and who... 320 00:13:33,546 --> 00:13:35,580 Who did something to her? 321 00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:40,418 - And now eileen, jen's best friend, 322 00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:42,920 Began thinking back to that game, 323 00:13:42,922 --> 00:13:47,024 The virtual kingdom that had jen so fascinated. 324 00:13:47,026 --> 00:13:49,761 - Did you think something sinister had happened? 325 00:13:49,763 --> 00:13:50,829 - Absolutely. 326 00:13:50,831 --> 00:13:52,630 I-- you know, the first thing I thought was, 327 00:13:52,632 --> 00:13:54,532 "these people on the game." 328 00:13:55,368 --> 00:13:56,701 - Coming up... 329 00:13:56,703 --> 00:13:59,303 - Had jen been meeting online? 330 00:13:59,305 --> 00:14:00,972 - We swung into the mall, 331 00:14:00,974 --> 00:14:03,374 And she wanted to smell his cologne. 332 00:14:03,376 --> 00:14:05,910 - Fantasy or reality? 333 00:14:05,912 --> 00:14:08,379 Jennifer ramsaran had a secret. 334 00:14:08,381 --> 00:14:10,381 - This man online knows where she lives. 335 00:14:10,383 --> 00:14:13,651 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 336 00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:24,161 ♪♪ 337 00:14:24,163 --> 00:14:27,999 - While remy ramsaran spent much of 2012 running marathons, 338 00:14:29,669 --> 00:14:32,336 His wife jen was immersed in the fantasy world 339 00:14:32,338 --> 00:14:34,572 Of "kingdoms of camelot". 340 00:14:34,574 --> 00:14:37,775 In the online game, jen, the stay-at-home mom, 341 00:14:37,777 --> 00:14:41,345 Was transformed into a lady among lords. 342 00:14:41,347 --> 00:14:43,481 - She just wanted to be on her game. 343 00:14:43,483 --> 00:14:46,084 And I would joke around about, "jen are--" 344 00:14:46,086 --> 00:14:48,887 You know, "come back to the real world," you know, 345 00:14:48,889 --> 00:14:51,088 "pull yourself out of that game." 346 00:14:51,090 --> 00:14:53,658 - From her iphone, jen chatted with other players 347 00:14:53,660 --> 00:14:55,560 From all over the world. 348 00:14:55,562 --> 00:14:57,962 It began as a way to pass the time, 349 00:14:57,964 --> 00:15:01,399 But became, in remy's words, "an obsession." 350 00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:04,068 - It started turning into addiction, and, uh, 351 00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:07,171 She was on it quite a lot, 352 00:15:07,173 --> 00:15:09,440 Close to eight hours a day, maybe more. 353 00:15:09,442 --> 00:15:11,108 Even in the evenings. 354 00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:13,177 - She was definitely sucked into it. 355 00:15:13,179 --> 00:15:14,512 - She was checking out a little bit? 356 00:15:14,514 --> 00:15:16,347 - Very much so. 357 00:15:16,349 --> 00:15:18,116 - Eileen and her girls spent lots of time 358 00:15:18,118 --> 00:15:19,917 At the ramsaran house. 359 00:15:19,919 --> 00:15:21,586 She says she saw first-hand 360 00:15:21,588 --> 00:15:25,056 How her martha stewart-like friend was changing. 361 00:15:25,058 --> 00:15:26,257 - She wasn't cooking, 362 00:15:26,259 --> 00:15:27,959 You know, they were ordering out every night. 363 00:15:27,961 --> 00:15:29,460 You know, I did their laundry one night 364 00:15:29,462 --> 00:15:30,661 Because it was just so stacked up 365 00:15:30,663 --> 00:15:31,796 The kids didn't have anything. 366 00:15:31,798 --> 00:15:32,930 And I said, "you want me to do your laundry?" 367 00:15:32,932 --> 00:15:34,532 She's like, "sure." 368 00:15:34,534 --> 00:15:36,534 - While on a recent shopping trip together, 369 00:15:36,536 --> 00:15:38,536 Eileen says all jen could talk about 370 00:15:38,538 --> 00:15:40,237 Were her gaming friends. 371 00:15:40,239 --> 00:15:42,473 And there was one player in particular, 372 00:15:42,475 --> 00:15:44,275 A british man named rob, 373 00:15:44,277 --> 00:15:46,811 With whom she was clearly smitten. 374 00:15:46,813 --> 00:15:48,245 - And she would joke around about, you know, 375 00:15:48,247 --> 00:15:50,014 Things they would talk about, you know, 376 00:15:50,016 --> 00:15:52,149 'cause in England it's different 377 00:15:52,151 --> 00:15:54,085 Than it is here, so different. 378 00:15:54,087 --> 00:15:56,153 And I think she liked that. 379 00:15:56,155 --> 00:15:59,156 - Eileen says jen confessed that the online friendship 380 00:15:59,158 --> 00:16:01,559 Had turned flirtatious. 381 00:16:01,561 --> 00:16:03,327 She even knew what kind of cologne 382 00:16:03,329 --> 00:16:05,563 This rob from England wore. 383 00:16:05,565 --> 00:16:07,331 - We swung into the mall, 384 00:16:07,333 --> 00:16:10,234 And she wanted to smell his cologne. 385 00:16:10,236 --> 00:16:13,504 And we did, we smelled his cologne. 386 00:16:13,506 --> 00:16:16,040 - And it sounded to eileen like jen was ready 387 00:16:16,042 --> 00:16:18,443 To take the virtual romance with rob 388 00:16:18,445 --> 00:16:20,277 Into the real world. 389 00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:22,580 - Rob knew where she lived and, um, 390 00:16:22,582 --> 00:16:23,848 Was thinking about relocating, 391 00:16:23,850 --> 00:16:24,949 Coming up here. 392 00:16:24,951 --> 00:16:26,384 - And he's in England? - Yeah. 393 00:16:26,386 --> 00:16:28,452 I said, "what if he does come up here?" 394 00:16:28,454 --> 00:16:30,254 And she kinda giggled. 395 00:16:31,324 --> 00:16:34,458 - But now, with jen missing, she felt she had no choice 396 00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:37,261 But to tell the police and remy. 397 00:16:37,263 --> 00:16:40,131 - When I told him, he was furious. 398 00:16:40,133 --> 00:16:41,399 You know, he said, "what?" 399 00:16:41,401 --> 00:16:43,401 I said, you know, "this man online 400 00:16:43,403 --> 00:16:45,002 "knows where she lives." 401 00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:47,005 - Did you feel the need to get in touch 402 00:16:47,007 --> 00:16:48,839 With this rob immediately? 403 00:16:48,841 --> 00:16:51,009 - We worked to do that almost from the start. 404 00:16:51,011 --> 00:16:53,611 We sent him messages through the-through the gaming app. 405 00:16:53,613 --> 00:16:56,047 You know, "this is the chenango county sheriff's office. 406 00:16:56,049 --> 00:16:58,215 "um, jennifer's been reported missing, 407 00:16:58,217 --> 00:17:00,618 "we're wondering if you had any contact with her." 408 00:17:00,620 --> 00:17:02,186 - The detective wanted to interview 409 00:17:02,188 --> 00:17:07,025 This potential suspect, but he was an ocean away. 410 00:17:07,027 --> 00:17:08,726 So interpol arranged a meeting 411 00:17:08,728 --> 00:17:11,162 Between rob and the british police. 412 00:17:11,164 --> 00:17:14,498 Rob admitted he was married and used the word "intimate" 413 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:17,168 To describe his relationship with jen. 414 00:17:17,170 --> 00:17:19,437 - Well, jennifer had sent some sort of lingerie, 415 00:17:19,439 --> 00:17:23,107 And he had sent her, I believe it was $150, 416 00:17:23,109 --> 00:17:25,042 Uh, that she never picked up. 417 00:17:25,044 --> 00:17:26,877 - Did he express what that money was for? 418 00:17:26,879 --> 00:17:29,146 - I believe it was for her to buy herself a gift. 419 00:17:29,148 --> 00:17:31,048 You know, this is, uh, early December, 420 00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:33,517 It's close to christmastime. 421 00:17:33,519 --> 00:17:34,852 - And though it was clear 422 00:17:34,854 --> 00:17:37,655 Rob and jen had talked about meeting in person, 423 00:17:37,657 --> 00:17:40,792 He insisted he had not been anywhere near new york 424 00:17:40,794 --> 00:17:42,460 When she disappeared. 425 00:17:42,462 --> 00:17:45,296 In fact, he said, he'd been worried too, 426 00:17:45,298 --> 00:17:48,899 Wondering why jen hadn't been online for days. 427 00:17:48,901 --> 00:17:51,402 So as the detective worked to check out his story, 428 00:17:51,404 --> 00:17:53,838 Remy was at home fuming, 429 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,539 Wondering if there was even more 430 00:17:55,541 --> 00:17:57,875 To jen's secret life online. 431 00:17:57,877 --> 00:17:59,610 - Do you think she was having an affair? 432 00:17:59,612 --> 00:18:00,945 - I can almost guarantee it. 433 00:18:00,947 --> 00:18:02,279 In fact, that's what I believed happened 434 00:18:02,281 --> 00:18:04,081 On December 11th. 435 00:18:04,083 --> 00:18:06,550 She went to go meet someone. 436 00:18:06,552 --> 00:18:09,086 - Despite the blood found in her abandoned van, 437 00:18:09,088 --> 00:18:12,423 Remy says he clung to hope that jen was still alive. 438 00:18:12,425 --> 00:18:16,127 He asked for help from a missing person's organization. 439 00:18:16,129 --> 00:18:19,196 They blanketed the area with fliers. 440 00:18:19,198 --> 00:18:22,399 Remy says he couldn't take the not knowing anymore. 441 00:18:22,401 --> 00:18:25,103 - You actually enlisted a psychic to help you? 442 00:18:25,105 --> 00:18:27,304 - Absolutely. What harm could it do? 443 00:18:27,306 --> 00:18:30,040 - The psychic believed jen was still alive. 444 00:18:30,042 --> 00:18:32,844 So remy says he wanted to keep the search going. 445 00:18:32,846 --> 00:18:35,112 - He was alone with three kids, 446 00:18:35,114 --> 00:18:37,248 And I thought he was grasping at anything 447 00:18:37,250 --> 00:18:39,917 That he could get to feel like 448 00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:43,220 Maybe his wife was out there still. 449 00:18:43,222 --> 00:18:46,423 - The new year didn't bring any new leads. 450 00:18:46,425 --> 00:18:48,592 The winter snow was piling up, 451 00:18:48,594 --> 00:18:51,796 And underneath it all another secret. 452 00:18:51,798 --> 00:18:53,664 This one so explosive 453 00:18:53,666 --> 00:18:56,334 It could not stay hidden for long. 454 00:18:56,336 --> 00:18:58,002 - Some people are gonna remember you 455 00:18:58,004 --> 00:19:01,772 As being the worst kind of friend to jen. 456 00:19:01,774 --> 00:19:04,308 - You know, you can't take back 457 00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:06,544 What you've done. 458 00:19:06,546 --> 00:19:08,078 - A stunning revelation 459 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,447 Is about to put jen's best friend 460 00:19:10,449 --> 00:19:13,150 At the very center of this case. 461 00:19:13,152 --> 00:19:14,619 Coming up... 462 00:19:14,621 --> 00:19:16,320 - That's kind of a bombshell. 463 00:19:16,322 --> 00:19:18,489 - It's-it's a big bombshell, yes. 464 00:19:18,491 --> 00:19:21,158 - And hidden in all that snow? 465 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,562 The discovery everyone had been dreading. 466 00:19:24,564 --> 00:19:26,697 - That's probably the most difficult thing 467 00:19:26,699 --> 00:19:28,465 I've ever had to do. 468 00:19:28,467 --> 00:19:31,569 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 469 00:19:35,574 --> 00:19:40,377 ♪♪ 470 00:19:40,379 --> 00:19:43,113 - Welcome back to "dateline: Secrets uncovered", 471 00:19:43,115 --> 00:19:44,715 I'm craig melvin. 472 00:19:44,717 --> 00:19:46,317 Jen ramsaran had vanished, 473 00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,053 And police suspected foul play. 474 00:19:49,055 --> 00:19:51,189 Now, investigators were focused on 475 00:19:51,191 --> 00:19:55,993 Jen's virtual romance with a man overseas. 476 00:19:55,995 --> 00:19:59,129 Soon they would discover someone else 477 00:19:59,131 --> 00:20:02,066 Was also carrying on a secret relationship, 478 00:20:02,068 --> 00:20:05,836 And this one was much closer to home. 479 00:20:05,838 --> 00:20:09,707 Here again is andrea canning with "secret lives". 480 00:20:11,444 --> 00:20:14,011 - Jen ramsaran had been playing a game online 481 00:20:14,013 --> 00:20:16,146 With people all over the world. 482 00:20:16,148 --> 00:20:18,282 Had one of them come to upstate new york 483 00:20:18,284 --> 00:20:19,883 Looking for her? 484 00:20:19,885 --> 00:20:22,019 Detective cobb was checking out the alibi 485 00:20:22,021 --> 00:20:24,922 Of the brit jen had been flirting with online, 486 00:20:24,924 --> 00:20:27,324 The one she wanted to meet in person. 487 00:20:27,326 --> 00:20:29,193 - Anybody was a suspect in the beginning 488 00:20:29,195 --> 00:20:30,828 Of the investigation. 489 00:20:30,830 --> 00:20:32,496 Um, rob and-and anybody else 490 00:20:32,498 --> 00:20:34,432 That she may have had contact with. 491 00:20:34,434 --> 00:20:36,701 - The detective asked u.S. Immigration 492 00:20:36,703 --> 00:20:39,069 To run a check on rob's passport. 493 00:20:39,071 --> 00:20:41,038 The agency reported back: 494 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,508 Rob had not entered the united states in 2012. 495 00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:47,645 So rob from the fantasy game was quickly cleared, 496 00:20:47,647 --> 00:20:50,314 And no longer a potential suspect. 497 00:20:50,316 --> 00:20:52,416 But still, remy was convinced 498 00:20:52,418 --> 00:20:54,551 She'd met up with someone. 499 00:20:54,553 --> 00:20:56,587 - I've told that to the police many times, 500 00:20:56,589 --> 00:20:58,055 Many times. 501 00:20:58,057 --> 00:20:59,790 - And do you think it was a direct link 502 00:20:59,792 --> 00:21:02,726 To these online games? - Absolutely. 503 00:21:02,728 --> 00:21:04,862 - Remy made no secret of how hurt 504 00:21:04,864 --> 00:21:07,231 And angry he was with jen. 505 00:21:07,233 --> 00:21:08,732 But instead of getting sympathy 506 00:21:08,734 --> 00:21:10,434 From his best friend jason, 507 00:21:10,436 --> 00:21:12,469 He got some words of wisdom. 508 00:21:12,471 --> 00:21:15,273 You see, jason knew about a secret 509 00:21:15,275 --> 00:21:17,141 And it was a big one. 510 00:21:17,143 --> 00:21:18,742 - How are you so mad at the possibility 511 00:21:18,744 --> 00:21:20,344 That she was having an affair? 512 00:21:20,346 --> 00:21:21,545 I was like, "remy, 513 00:21:21,547 --> 00:21:23,247 "you've been having an affair yourself." 514 00:21:23,249 --> 00:21:24,581 - That's right. 515 00:21:24,583 --> 00:21:27,384 Mad as he was about jen's online romance, 516 00:21:27,386 --> 00:21:29,486 He'd been cheating on her. 517 00:21:29,488 --> 00:21:30,587 And remy's affair 518 00:21:30,589 --> 00:21:33,023 Had been going on right under jen's nose 519 00:21:33,025 --> 00:21:36,593 With the last person on earth she would ever expect: 520 00:21:36,595 --> 00:21:39,163 Her best friend, eileen. 521 00:21:39,165 --> 00:21:40,498 - In my heart and in my stomach, 522 00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:42,099 I knew it was wrong. 523 00:21:42,101 --> 00:21:43,300 - This is your wife's best friend. 524 00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:44,201 - Oh, yes. 525 00:21:44,203 --> 00:21:45,135 - The girl scout troop leader. 526 00:21:45,137 --> 00:21:47,538 - Oh, yes... Very bad thing. 527 00:21:48,741 --> 00:21:52,510 - The affair began nearly a year before jen disappeared. 528 00:21:52,512 --> 00:21:53,977 - I asked her if I could kiss her, 529 00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:55,279 And I did. 530 00:21:55,281 --> 00:21:58,382 And we both felt extremely guilty. 531 00:21:58,384 --> 00:21:59,983 - And did you kiss him back? 532 00:21:59,985 --> 00:22:01,052 - I did. 533 00:22:01,054 --> 00:22:03,420 And then I left, just like that. 534 00:22:03,422 --> 00:22:05,789 - Some people would have been-- 535 00:22:05,791 --> 00:22:06,890 - Shocked? 536 00:22:06,892 --> 00:22:09,026 - Shocked and said, "what are you doing? 537 00:22:09,028 --> 00:22:10,528 "jen's my best friend. Why are you doing this?" 538 00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:13,864 - Right. Right. 539 00:22:13,866 --> 00:22:16,000 - What was your gut telling you? 540 00:22:16,002 --> 00:22:19,337 - My gut was telling me, "no. You can't do this, 541 00:22:19,339 --> 00:22:23,474 "it's wrong. It's so wrong." 542 00:22:23,476 --> 00:22:26,143 - Despite that, they had sex 543 00:22:26,145 --> 00:22:27,811 In jen and remy's house 544 00:22:27,813 --> 00:22:30,414 Not long after that first kiss. 545 00:22:30,416 --> 00:22:34,551 - Did you feel any guilt consummating this relationship 546 00:22:34,553 --> 00:22:37,488 In the house that you share with your wife? 547 00:22:37,490 --> 00:22:40,224 - I-I know I should say yes, but I didn't. 548 00:22:40,226 --> 00:22:41,959 Jen and I had already grown apart. 549 00:22:41,961 --> 00:22:44,027 - Did you talk to jen about getting a divorce? 550 00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:45,229 - Yes, oh yes. 551 00:22:45,231 --> 00:22:46,831 A handful of different times. 552 00:22:46,833 --> 00:22:47,898 - Eileen says 553 00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:50,267 All those marathon training sessions together 554 00:22:50,269 --> 00:22:52,569 Drove them into each other's arms. 555 00:22:52,571 --> 00:22:53,871 And for eileen at least, 556 00:22:53,873 --> 00:22:55,873 It was more than just physical, 557 00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:58,041 Even though she was married herself, 558 00:22:58,043 --> 00:23:00,144 She was falling in love with remy. 559 00:23:00,146 --> 00:23:01,779 - We had a lot in common, 560 00:23:01,781 --> 00:23:03,781 You know, with the running. 561 00:23:03,783 --> 00:23:07,785 And the feelings for him took over 562 00:23:07,787 --> 00:23:09,887 And just filled my-my head. 563 00:23:09,889 --> 00:23:13,257 - You seem a little out of remy's league. 564 00:23:13,259 --> 00:23:17,261 What was it about him that you were so attracted to? 565 00:23:17,263 --> 00:23:19,930 - His personality was huge. 566 00:23:19,932 --> 00:23:23,767 I mean, always lifted you up, 567 00:23:23,769 --> 00:23:26,604 Always made you feel important. 568 00:23:26,606 --> 00:23:28,873 - But eileen was racked with guilt. 569 00:23:28,875 --> 00:23:31,642 She was hiding the affair from her best friend 570 00:23:31,644 --> 00:23:33,343 And her husband. 571 00:23:33,345 --> 00:23:34,845 - That's a lot of sneaking around. 572 00:23:34,847 --> 00:23:36,079 - Yeah, I couldn't take it, 573 00:23:36,081 --> 00:23:38,415 I couldn't-- it was too much. 574 00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:39,917 It got to be too much. 575 00:23:39,919 --> 00:23:42,753 - Did he say to you, "I'm going to divorce jen"? 576 00:23:42,755 --> 00:23:44,087 - He said it, yeah. 577 00:23:44,089 --> 00:23:47,558 - Did that make you happy? - No. 578 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,827 No, because I knew it would hurt her. 579 00:23:49,829 --> 00:23:51,028 - During the affair, 580 00:23:51,030 --> 00:23:53,263 Eileen and her husband separated. 581 00:23:53,265 --> 00:23:55,833 But then in November, she broke it off with remy 582 00:23:55,835 --> 00:23:57,501 And moved back home. 583 00:23:57,503 --> 00:24:01,238 Still, she and remy got together one last time 584 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,941 The night before jen went missing. 585 00:24:03,943 --> 00:24:06,743 - We did have sex. 586 00:24:06,745 --> 00:24:08,245 That in my-- 587 00:24:08,247 --> 00:24:09,580 As far as it goes, 588 00:24:09,582 --> 00:24:13,851 I did not want to further the relationship 589 00:24:13,853 --> 00:24:15,853 At that point. 590 00:24:15,855 --> 00:24:17,287 - How did he handle that? 591 00:24:17,289 --> 00:24:21,792 - You know, he... He gets upset. 592 00:24:21,794 --> 00:24:24,127 You know, he wants what he wants. 593 00:24:24,129 --> 00:24:26,196 - An affair with the best friend? 594 00:24:26,198 --> 00:24:27,831 Just imagine how bad it would look 595 00:24:27,833 --> 00:24:29,600 When police found out. 596 00:24:29,602 --> 00:24:32,369 That's why, remy says, the morning after 597 00:24:32,371 --> 00:24:34,371 He realized jen was gone, 598 00:24:34,373 --> 00:24:36,206 He and eileen went to the police 599 00:24:36,208 --> 00:24:38,742 To let them know about the relationship. 600 00:24:38,744 --> 00:24:41,178 - Tell 'em right off the bat. 601 00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:43,580 That's so-- I don't have anything in my life 602 00:24:43,582 --> 00:24:47,017 To feel embarrassed about except that. 603 00:24:47,019 --> 00:24:50,921 - I needed to help jen, I needed them to find her. 604 00:24:50,923 --> 00:24:54,024 And I would do anything to help them at that moment. 605 00:24:54,026 --> 00:24:55,959 - That's kind of a bombshell. 606 00:24:55,961 --> 00:24:58,262 - It's a big bombshell, yes. 607 00:24:58,264 --> 00:25:01,498 - A bombshell the detective had to follow up on. 608 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,767 They interviewed a very cooperative remy 609 00:25:03,769 --> 00:25:05,135 Several times. 610 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,740 - Okay. 611 00:25:09,742 --> 00:25:11,375 - He never asked for a lawyer, 612 00:25:11,377 --> 00:25:14,278 And let investigators search their home. 613 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,446 He even turned over the clothes he was wearing 614 00:25:16,448 --> 00:25:18,415 When jen disappeared. 615 00:25:18,417 --> 00:25:20,317 - He was a suspect at that point. 616 00:25:20,319 --> 00:25:22,586 It was as much to rule him out, 617 00:25:22,588 --> 00:25:25,222 As it was to rule him in at that point. 618 00:25:25,224 --> 00:25:26,423 - And eileen? 619 00:25:26,425 --> 00:25:28,926 She was now under investigation, too. 620 00:25:28,928 --> 00:25:31,228 - Why was eileen a possible suspect? 621 00:25:31,230 --> 00:25:32,829 - Just because of her relationship, 622 00:25:32,831 --> 00:25:36,733 Her involvement with jennifer and mr. Ramsaran. 623 00:25:36,735 --> 00:25:39,536 Generally you would think a husband or a male 624 00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:43,006 Might commit murder, but women can also. 625 00:25:43,008 --> 00:25:44,942 - But until a body was found, 626 00:25:44,944 --> 00:25:47,678 Investigators had no way of knowing how, 627 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,114 When, or even if jen had been murdered. 628 00:25:51,116 --> 00:25:55,252 That all changed on February 26, 2013, 629 00:25:55,254 --> 00:25:57,955 Two and a half months after jen went missing. 630 00:25:57,957 --> 00:25:59,623 - The snow had started to melt and settle enough 631 00:25:59,625 --> 00:26:02,493 That, you know, she-- part of her became exposed. 632 00:26:02,495 --> 00:26:03,827 - She had no clothes on? 633 00:26:03,829 --> 00:26:05,696 - Right. She was found naked. 634 00:26:05,698 --> 00:26:07,698 - Jen's body was found in an embankment 635 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:10,100 Along an uninhabited stretch of road 636 00:26:10,102 --> 00:26:12,436 About 20 miles from her home. 637 00:26:12,438 --> 00:26:14,705 Two detectives knocked on remy's door 638 00:26:14,707 --> 00:26:16,306 And gave him the news. 639 00:26:16,308 --> 00:26:19,176 - It's my wife? Are you sure? 640 00:26:19,178 --> 00:26:24,081 Th-that was heart-wrenching, heart-wrenching. 641 00:26:24,083 --> 00:26:26,650 And I called all three kids into the master bedroom 642 00:26:26,652 --> 00:26:27,985 And I told the kids, 643 00:26:27,987 --> 00:26:31,555 Um, mommy's in heaven, 644 00:26:31,557 --> 00:26:36,493 But she's always gonna be with us. 645 00:26:36,495 --> 00:26:38,462 That's probably the most difficult thing 646 00:26:38,464 --> 00:26:40,798 I've ever had to do. 647 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,935 - It was awful, the grief. 648 00:26:44,937 --> 00:26:46,637 And I knew at this point 649 00:26:46,639 --> 00:26:50,273 There's no telling her I'm sorry. 650 00:26:50,275 --> 00:26:52,810 - What really frustrates me, 651 00:26:52,812 --> 00:26:56,213 Jen's body was found just a little over three miles away 652 00:26:56,215 --> 00:26:58,682 From where that phone was. 653 00:26:58,684 --> 00:27:01,018 - You feel the police should have looked harder? 654 00:27:01,020 --> 00:27:02,252 - Absolutely! 655 00:27:02,254 --> 00:27:04,822 Even helicopter, something. 656 00:27:04,824 --> 00:27:06,957 - And on the day jen's body was found, 657 00:27:06,959 --> 00:27:09,459 Remy summoned the local media to his house 658 00:27:09,461 --> 00:27:12,262 And through tears spoke to the cameras. 659 00:27:12,264 --> 00:27:13,964 - Just gotta be strong for the kids, 660 00:27:13,966 --> 00:27:16,099 Make sure they're okay. 661 00:27:16,101 --> 00:27:18,669 And we'll figure it out. 662 00:27:18,671 --> 00:27:19,903 - But by then, 663 00:27:19,905 --> 00:27:21,905 People around the tiny town of new berlin 664 00:27:21,907 --> 00:27:24,307 Had caught wind of remy's affair, 665 00:27:24,309 --> 00:27:26,577 And some were starting to wonder 666 00:27:26,579 --> 00:27:28,579 If his tears were real. 667 00:27:29,882 --> 00:27:33,350 - Coming up, from cheating spouse 668 00:27:33,352 --> 00:27:34,752 To chief suspect? 669 00:27:43,228 --> 00:27:46,497 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 670 00:27:49,668 --> 00:27:57,408 ♪♪ 671 00:27:57,410 --> 00:28:01,679 - The search for jen ramsaran had come to a bitter end, 672 00:28:01,681 --> 00:28:03,013 And there was her husband, remy, 673 00:28:03,015 --> 00:28:05,148 Telling anyone who would listen, 674 00:28:05,150 --> 00:28:07,418 He wanted payback. 675 00:28:07,420 --> 00:28:10,620 - I've always said, "in order to get true closure 676 00:28:10,622 --> 00:28:13,557 "we've gotta find out what happened to jen." 677 00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,093 And I don't just want justice, 678 00:28:16,095 --> 00:28:17,427 I want vengeance. 679 00:28:17,429 --> 00:28:20,898 - Detective cobb could see remy was a big talker. 680 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:23,700 - He's the kind of guy that I think, uh, in his life 681 00:28:23,702 --> 00:28:25,902 He's been able to talk himself through 682 00:28:25,904 --> 00:28:27,705 Most every situation. 683 00:28:27,707 --> 00:28:29,840 - Yes, he'd come down to the police station 684 00:28:29,842 --> 00:28:31,709 To confess his affair, 685 00:28:31,711 --> 00:28:34,611 But now the detective felt like remy was trying to control 686 00:28:34,613 --> 00:28:36,880 The focus of the investigation. 687 00:28:36,882 --> 00:28:39,516 - He was using social media and news media 688 00:28:39,518 --> 00:28:41,051 To kind of get his message out. 689 00:28:41,053 --> 00:28:43,453 - What message was he trying to get out in the media? 690 00:28:43,455 --> 00:28:44,521 - Uh, that jennifer had changed, 691 00:28:44,523 --> 00:28:45,956 And that she wasn't, you know, 692 00:28:45,958 --> 00:28:47,924 The mother or wife or housekeeper or cook 693 00:28:47,926 --> 00:28:49,259 That she used to be. 694 00:28:49,261 --> 00:28:51,928 - Trying to deflect off of himself? 695 00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:53,029 Is that what you believed? - Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah. 696 00:28:53,031 --> 00:28:55,732 And put this on jennifer. 697 00:28:55,734 --> 00:28:58,001 - Jen's childhood friend, teresa, 698 00:28:58,003 --> 00:29:01,471 700 miles away, noticed the same thing 699 00:29:01,473 --> 00:29:04,541 As she read remy's frequent updates on facebook. 700 00:29:04,543 --> 00:29:08,078 - He started saying things about jen like, 701 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,946 You know, "well, she wasn't really a mother 702 00:29:09,948 --> 00:29:11,882 "for the past six months. 703 00:29:11,884 --> 00:29:16,153 "she had, um, disconnected herself from the family." 704 00:29:16,155 --> 00:29:18,155 - He seems like a total oversharer. 705 00:29:18,157 --> 00:29:19,956 - Yes. Yes. 706 00:29:19,958 --> 00:29:22,025 Overshared everything. 707 00:29:22,027 --> 00:29:24,528 - And teresa thought remy was flirting with people 708 00:29:24,530 --> 00:29:26,429 Who were trying to find his wife. 709 00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:28,298 Like that psychic he enlisted. 710 00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,834 They had some weird exchanges on facebook. 711 00:29:30,836 --> 00:29:34,438 - He said something about her putting on a bikini 712 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,373 And going outside in the snow, 713 00:29:36,375 --> 00:29:38,775 And that- that's what she should do. 714 00:29:38,777 --> 00:29:40,911 And I just- I thought that was very strange, 715 00:29:40,913 --> 00:29:42,279 Putting on a bikini. 716 00:29:42,281 --> 00:29:43,446 - So the psychic should put on a bikini? 717 00:29:43,448 --> 00:29:44,514 - Yes. 718 00:29:44,516 --> 00:29:45,849 - Remy's close friend jason 719 00:29:45,851 --> 00:29:47,317 Started to think it was creepy 720 00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:51,388 That remy seemed obsessed with jen's possible infidelity, 721 00:29:51,390 --> 00:29:53,924 Even exaggerating it as time went on. 722 00:29:53,926 --> 00:29:55,058 - He said that, um, 723 00:29:55,060 --> 00:29:56,593 He had found naked pictures of her 724 00:29:56,595 --> 00:29:58,729 That she had sent to other people. 725 00:29:58,731 --> 00:30:00,330 And, I mean, there was times 726 00:30:00,332 --> 00:30:01,264 Where he was trying to tell me 727 00:30:01,266 --> 00:30:02,399 That there was three or four people 728 00:30:02,401 --> 00:30:04,034 She was sending these to. 729 00:30:04,036 --> 00:30:05,902 - But investigators found no proof 730 00:30:05,904 --> 00:30:07,904 She'd been sexting with strangers, 731 00:30:07,906 --> 00:30:09,773 So they were back to picking apart 732 00:30:09,775 --> 00:30:11,008 The story remy told them 733 00:30:11,010 --> 00:30:13,210 On tape about the day she went missing. 734 00:30:17,015 --> 00:30:19,115 - Remy was sure that jen left to go shopping 735 00:30:19,117 --> 00:30:21,084 Before 11 a.M., 736 00:30:21,086 --> 00:30:23,153 But when technicians analyzed her phone, 737 00:30:23,155 --> 00:30:26,022 They found that at the time he said jen was gone, 738 00:30:26,024 --> 00:30:29,359 The iphone was still connected to the home wi-fi, 739 00:30:29,361 --> 00:30:31,928 Which to the detective meant jen was likely 740 00:30:31,930 --> 00:30:33,763 Still in the house. 741 00:30:33,765 --> 00:30:36,299 - This is a red flag for you that her-her phone 742 00:30:36,301 --> 00:30:39,135 Is clearly at home when she's not supposed to be? 743 00:30:39,137 --> 00:30:39,837 - Right. 744 00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:41,371 It's hard for him to explain. 745 00:30:41,373 --> 00:30:42,472 - And looking back, 746 00:30:42,474 --> 00:30:44,507 It seemed strange that it was remy, 747 00:30:44,509 --> 00:30:45,809 Not the police, 748 00:30:45,811 --> 00:30:47,377 Who was able to find that phone 749 00:30:47,379 --> 00:30:49,246 20 feet below a bridge. 750 00:30:51,316 --> 00:30:53,683 - What's more, when they examined the phone, 751 00:30:53,685 --> 00:30:55,285 It was in perfect condition. 752 00:30:55,287 --> 00:30:56,353 - There wasn't any damage. 753 00:30:56,355 --> 00:30:58,622 So to us, that said that somebody had actually, 754 00:30:58,624 --> 00:30:59,956 You know, come down here and placed the phone. 755 00:30:59,958 --> 00:31:01,291 - Placed it, right. - Yeah. 756 00:31:01,293 --> 00:31:04,661 - So where exactly was remy on December 11th? 757 00:31:04,663 --> 00:31:07,564 He said that after jen left he went out for a run, 758 00:31:07,566 --> 00:31:09,066 Ended up at the ymca. 759 00:31:16,909 --> 00:31:18,808 - Detective cobb pulled surveillance videos 760 00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:22,078 From the convenience stores and banks along that route. 761 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,148 Turns out, remy wasn't on any of them. 762 00:31:25,150 --> 00:31:27,851 The only video he appeared on is this one 763 00:31:27,853 --> 00:31:30,153 Where he stretches before entering the y. 764 00:31:30,155 --> 00:31:34,424 - So his-his alibi of running this certain route, 765 00:31:34,426 --> 00:31:36,226 Uh, appears to be false. 766 00:31:36,228 --> 00:31:38,028 So we have all these things 767 00:31:38,030 --> 00:31:41,231 That are now taking the focus off 768 00:31:41,233 --> 00:31:42,766 This could be anybody, 769 00:31:42,768 --> 00:31:45,102 And putting it really on mr. Ramsaran. 770 00:31:45,104 --> 00:31:47,504 - Were they talking as though remy was a suspect? 771 00:31:47,506 --> 00:31:49,706 - Yeah. And I just said, "no." 772 00:31:49,708 --> 00:31:52,776 That, you know, I'm not believing that. 773 00:31:52,778 --> 00:31:55,178 - Remy could be controlling. - Yeah. 774 00:31:55,180 --> 00:31:57,247 - But just, in your eyes, not controlling enough 775 00:31:57,249 --> 00:31:58,849 Where he would take his own wife's life. 776 00:31:58,851 --> 00:31:59,983 - No. 777 00:31:59,985 --> 00:32:02,719 I-- that never even crossed my mind. 778 00:32:02,721 --> 00:32:03,887 - As for eileen, 779 00:32:03,889 --> 00:32:07,057 The detective was able to verify her alibi. 780 00:32:07,059 --> 00:32:08,725 She'd been working that morning, 781 00:32:08,727 --> 00:32:12,128 But she did meet remy at the y that afternoon. 782 00:32:12,130 --> 00:32:13,363 - We still have the question though 783 00:32:13,365 --> 00:32:18,034 That eileen picked, uh, mr. Ramsaran up from the ymca, 784 00:32:18,036 --> 00:32:20,603 Um, shortly after 1 o'clock that afternoon. 785 00:32:20,605 --> 00:32:22,439 - Eileen drove remy home. 786 00:32:22,441 --> 00:32:24,574 Though both she and remy told the detective 787 00:32:24,576 --> 00:32:27,010 That she did not go inside the house. 788 00:32:27,012 --> 00:32:30,013 - Did you still think that maybe she was covering for remy 789 00:32:30,015 --> 00:32:32,615 And that she knew all along what had happened? 790 00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:33,917 - That was still a possibility 791 00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:36,753 That-that she had some kind of guilty knowledge. 792 00:32:36,755 --> 00:32:39,022 - They thought I wasn't giving them everything, 793 00:32:39,024 --> 00:32:40,223 In which I was. 794 00:32:40,225 --> 00:32:42,092 You know, if I had more I would have given it. 795 00:32:42,094 --> 00:32:44,327 I would have given anything to help. 796 00:32:44,329 --> 00:32:46,629 - But one-by-one, the folks around town 797 00:32:46,631 --> 00:32:49,499 Began to turn against remy and eileen. 798 00:32:49,501 --> 00:32:50,600 - Were you wearing a scarlet letter? 799 00:32:50,602 --> 00:32:54,871 - Absolutely. I felt awful. 800 00:32:54,873 --> 00:32:59,109 Um, so it pushed me towards him. 801 00:32:59,111 --> 00:33:00,911 - Did you start to talk about being together 802 00:33:00,913 --> 00:33:02,212 Permanently? - Mmm-hmm. 803 00:33:02,214 --> 00:33:05,382 And leaving-- just getting out of here. 804 00:33:05,384 --> 00:33:07,951 - It was now may 2013, 805 00:33:07,953 --> 00:33:09,919 Three months after jen's body was found 806 00:33:09,921 --> 00:33:12,656 Along that embankment at the side of the road. 807 00:33:12,658 --> 00:33:14,891 The autopsy report was back, 808 00:33:14,893 --> 00:33:17,160 Jen's body had been outside too long 809 00:33:17,162 --> 00:33:19,196 To determine a cause of death. 810 00:33:19,198 --> 00:33:22,399 But the medical examiner declared it a homicide. 811 00:33:22,401 --> 00:33:25,435 - I get a phone call, "can you come on down? 812 00:33:25,437 --> 00:33:29,005 "um, we have, uh, those medical results. 813 00:33:29,007 --> 00:33:31,341 "uh, we'll finally get to talk to you 814 00:33:31,343 --> 00:33:33,610 "and tell you exactly what happened." 815 00:33:33,612 --> 00:33:36,146 - Well we wanted one more shot at-at, uh, 816 00:33:36,148 --> 00:33:37,614 Interviewing mr. Ramsaran. 817 00:34:07,612 --> 00:34:11,247 - Remy ramsaran was charged with second-degree murder, 818 00:34:11,249 --> 00:34:13,517 But it was a circumstantial case. 819 00:34:13,519 --> 00:34:16,253 The prosecution would now have to sell to a jury. 820 00:34:18,056 --> 00:34:19,523 - Coming up... 821 00:34:19,525 --> 00:34:21,925 - He dumped the body, then he dumped the phone, 822 00:34:21,927 --> 00:34:23,260 And then he dumped the van. 823 00:34:23,262 --> 00:34:26,730 - The showdown. Prosecutors against remy. 824 00:34:26,732 --> 00:34:28,865 - Everyone needs to know the truth. 825 00:34:28,867 --> 00:34:29,933 - Do you have a strategy? 826 00:34:29,935 --> 00:34:31,634 -What strategy? Tell the truth. 827 00:34:31,636 --> 00:34:35,072 - When "dateline: Secrets uncovered" continues. 828 00:34:38,676 --> 00:34:42,745 ♪♪ 829 00:34:42,747 --> 00:34:44,081 - Welcome back. 830 00:34:44,083 --> 00:34:48,284 Remy ramsaran told police he did not kill his wife, jen. 831 00:34:48,286 --> 00:34:51,154 But, they believe the evidence said otherwise 832 00:34:51,156 --> 00:34:52,422 And arrested him. 833 00:34:52,424 --> 00:34:57,561 By now, the entire town knew remy had cheated on jen 834 00:34:57,563 --> 00:34:59,829 With her best friend eileen, 835 00:34:59,831 --> 00:35:02,966 But did that make him a killer? 836 00:35:02,968 --> 00:35:06,169 As prosecutors prepared to argue their circumstantial case, 837 00:35:06,171 --> 00:35:09,038 Remy's lover stood by him. 838 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,375 Could anything shake her support? 839 00:35:12,377 --> 00:35:15,011 Here's andrea canning with the conclusion 840 00:35:15,013 --> 00:35:17,280 Of "secret lives". 841 00:35:17,282 --> 00:35:20,617 - Remy ramsaran was charged with his wife's murder. 842 00:35:20,619 --> 00:35:22,652 But after looking at all the evidence, 843 00:35:22,654 --> 00:35:26,222 Investigators completely cleared his mistress, eileen. 844 00:35:26,224 --> 00:35:28,324 - I would never hurt her. 845 00:35:28,326 --> 00:35:30,059 - There was no evidence that she had any involvement 846 00:35:30,061 --> 00:35:32,262 In jennifer's homicide. 847 00:35:32,264 --> 00:35:34,497 - Remy had been in jail for more than a year 848 00:35:34,499 --> 00:35:37,667 When we spoke to him just before his trial. 849 00:35:37,669 --> 00:35:40,937 He was focused on what the prosecution didn't have: 850 00:35:40,939 --> 00:35:43,607 No murder weapon, no eyewitnesses, 851 00:35:43,609 --> 00:35:46,142 No evidence of violence in his marriage. 852 00:35:46,144 --> 00:35:47,277 - Is there no doubt in your mind 853 00:35:47,279 --> 00:35:49,012 That you will walk out of here a free man? 854 00:35:49,014 --> 00:35:50,146 - I'm scared to my death 855 00:35:50,148 --> 00:35:52,816 That they're gonna send me to jail or prison. 856 00:35:52,818 --> 00:35:55,218 But here's the thing, I have truth on my side. 857 00:35:55,220 --> 00:35:58,155 I did nothing wrong. I did nothing. 858 00:35:58,157 --> 00:35:59,455 I would never harm my wife. 859 00:35:59,457 --> 00:36:00,490 - Joseph mcbride, 860 00:36:00,492 --> 00:36:02,358 Then chenango's district attorney, 861 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,127 Told the jury a different story. 862 00:36:04,129 --> 00:36:05,995 - ...When December 11th rolled around, 863 00:36:05,997 --> 00:36:08,798 It was time for him to get rid of his wife. 864 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,368 - The prosecutor painted a picture of a man 865 00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:13,770 So infatuated with his mistress 866 00:36:13,772 --> 00:36:16,673 That he chose murder over divorce. 867 00:36:16,675 --> 00:36:18,041 He played jailhouse phone calls 868 00:36:18,043 --> 00:36:19,743 Between remy and eileen. 869 00:36:31,323 --> 00:36:32,989 - Remy's best friend and confidant 870 00:36:32,991 --> 00:36:35,258 Was called by the prosecution to testify 871 00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:38,728 About conversations they'd had about divorce. 872 00:36:38,730 --> 00:36:39,762 - I mentioned to him 873 00:36:39,764 --> 00:36:40,797 That jen would end up getting the kids, 874 00:36:40,799 --> 00:36:42,832 And he was very confident 875 00:36:42,834 --> 00:36:44,734 That he would be the one that had the kids. 876 00:36:44,736 --> 00:36:45,936 I kept telling him, I was like, 877 00:36:45,938 --> 00:36:49,272 "I don't think that's exactly how it's gonna play out." 878 00:36:49,274 --> 00:36:51,007 - Jennifer was gonna get custody, 879 00:36:51,009 --> 00:36:52,542 And why is that important? 880 00:36:52,544 --> 00:36:54,077 That gives him another reason, 881 00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:56,613 Another motive to kill his wife. 882 00:36:56,615 --> 00:36:58,881 - The prosecution presented all the little bits 883 00:36:58,883 --> 00:37:01,351 And pieces from the investigation. 884 00:37:01,353 --> 00:37:04,420 Jen's iphone that was found by the defendant himself, 885 00:37:04,422 --> 00:37:07,657 The alibi that could not be verified by video, 886 00:37:07,659 --> 00:37:10,727 And the timeline that didn't exactly hold up. 887 00:37:10,729 --> 00:37:11,828 - In our theory of the case, 888 00:37:11,830 --> 00:37:13,830 He had actually killed his wife at home, 889 00:37:13,832 --> 00:37:15,398 Cleaned up for a few hours, 890 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,000 And then he dumped the body, 891 00:37:17,002 --> 00:37:18,101 Then he dumped the phone, 892 00:37:18,103 --> 00:37:19,302 And then he dumped the van. 893 00:37:19,304 --> 00:37:21,271 And then he continued on that straight line 894 00:37:21,273 --> 00:37:22,906 To the ymca. 895 00:37:22,908 --> 00:37:25,708 - The prosecutor brought the one-time potential suspect, 896 00:37:25,710 --> 00:37:28,177 Rob from England, into the case. 897 00:37:28,179 --> 00:37:31,381 Via skype, he told the jury he became alarmed that morning 898 00:37:31,383 --> 00:37:34,183 When, like a ghost, jen disappeared 899 00:37:34,185 --> 00:37:36,920 In the middle of a "kingdoms of camelot" game. 900 00:37:36,922 --> 00:37:37,988 - Why is that important? 901 00:37:37,990 --> 00:37:40,890 'cause she never, ever left the game before. 902 00:37:40,892 --> 00:37:44,193 She never, ever, left without an explanation. 903 00:37:44,195 --> 00:37:45,328 - The prosecution believed 904 00:37:45,330 --> 00:37:47,864 Remy caught jen playing the game in bed 905 00:37:47,866 --> 00:37:49,199 And snapped. 906 00:37:49,201 --> 00:37:51,434 They found a spot of blood on the mattress 907 00:37:51,436 --> 00:37:53,303 And on the sweatshirt remy was wearing 908 00:37:53,305 --> 00:37:55,038 The day jen went missing. 909 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,606 - And the dna on that bloodspot 910 00:37:56,608 --> 00:37:58,808 Was also partially remy's 911 00:37:58,810 --> 00:38:00,677 And it was partially jennifer's. 912 00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:02,012 And that was powerful. 913 00:38:02,014 --> 00:38:04,213 - Actually, not powerful at all, 914 00:38:04,215 --> 00:38:07,617 Countered remy's defense attorney, gilberto garcia. 915 00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:10,687 - The problem is that the evidence 916 00:38:10,689 --> 00:38:12,689 Does not demonstrate 917 00:38:12,691 --> 00:38:15,558 That mr. Ramsaran killed his wife. 918 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,428 - Remy's attorney argued that all the prosecution had 919 00:38:18,430 --> 00:38:22,799 Were theories, no real proof that remy murdered jen. 920 00:38:22,801 --> 00:38:24,567 He said even those surveillance tapes 921 00:38:24,569 --> 00:38:25,968 Were worthless. 922 00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:28,805 One video was missing a date and timestamp... 923 00:38:28,807 --> 00:38:31,474 Another had a partially obstructed view. 924 00:38:31,476 --> 00:38:33,042 - And I argued to the jury, 925 00:38:33,044 --> 00:38:35,345 "you can't see this person walking 926 00:38:35,347 --> 00:38:38,715 "because there's still another 75 feet further 927 00:38:38,717 --> 00:38:40,516 "that the camera doesn't see." 928 00:38:40,518 --> 00:38:44,120 - The defense's entire case was just one witness: 929 00:38:44,122 --> 00:38:45,655 Remy himself. 930 00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:48,191 - Everyone needs to know the truth. 931 00:38:48,193 --> 00:38:49,726 - Do you have a strategy? 932 00:38:49,728 --> 00:38:51,194 - What strategy? Tell the truth. 933 00:38:51,196 --> 00:38:52,862 There is no strategy. 934 00:38:52,864 --> 00:38:56,066 - Remy testified for two full days. 935 00:38:56,068 --> 00:38:58,034 - It is a circumstantial case. 936 00:38:58,036 --> 00:38:59,135 - Wholly circumstantial. 937 00:38:59,137 --> 00:39:01,805 - Do you worry about motive 938 00:39:01,807 --> 00:39:05,542 And how the jury will feel about motive? 939 00:39:05,544 --> 00:39:07,276 The affair... 940 00:39:07,278 --> 00:39:09,012 - People have affairs all the time 941 00:39:09,014 --> 00:39:11,147 And they don't wind up killing their wives, 942 00:39:11,149 --> 00:39:12,082 But it's very weak 943 00:39:12,084 --> 00:39:13,616 If that's what they're gonna claim. 944 00:39:13,618 --> 00:39:16,152 - Remy pointed out that he was always cooperative 945 00:39:16,154 --> 00:39:17,554 With the police. 946 00:39:17,556 --> 00:39:18,621 - Here's the thing, 947 00:39:18,623 --> 00:39:20,823 If I had done anything to my wife, 948 00:39:20,825 --> 00:39:23,960 Would I have gone out and try and find her phone? 949 00:39:23,962 --> 00:39:26,229 Would I try and help and answer every question 950 00:39:26,231 --> 00:39:27,363 To the police? 951 00:39:27,365 --> 00:39:29,132 I should have lawyered up right off the bat. 952 00:39:29,134 --> 00:39:30,032 You have to remember, 953 00:39:30,034 --> 00:39:34,036 My life was absolutely fantastic. 954 00:39:34,038 --> 00:39:35,371 Absolutely fantastic, not a care in the world. 955 00:39:35,373 --> 00:39:36,973 - You were living, though, with a secret. 956 00:39:36,975 --> 00:39:38,241 - Okay. 957 00:39:38,243 --> 00:39:40,176 - That isn't always fantastic. 958 00:39:40,178 --> 00:39:43,713 - Might be a secret, but in regards to jen and I 959 00:39:43,715 --> 00:39:46,983 Splitting apart and whatever happened, 960 00:39:46,985 --> 00:39:48,618 It was always there. 961 00:39:48,620 --> 00:39:50,219 I mean, it's not like a bad thing. 962 00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:51,921 - You had a plan? - Absolutely. 963 00:39:51,923 --> 00:39:54,190 - Did you have a plan to kill your wife? 964 00:39:54,192 --> 00:39:55,325 - Of course not. 965 00:39:55,327 --> 00:39:56,926 - Is this all about remy? 966 00:39:56,928 --> 00:40:00,596 Remy wanted to have the life he wanted? 967 00:40:00,598 --> 00:40:02,265 - Whoa, that's where you're absolutely wrong. 968 00:40:02,267 --> 00:40:05,034 I had the perfect life. 969 00:40:05,036 --> 00:40:07,470 I had a wife, had a girlfriend, 970 00:40:07,472 --> 00:40:11,073 Have kids, have everything anyone would want. 971 00:40:11,075 --> 00:40:12,875 The worst thing to have ever happened to me 972 00:40:12,877 --> 00:40:14,243 Is jen go missing. 973 00:40:14,245 --> 00:40:15,945 Absolutely worst thing. 974 00:40:15,947 --> 00:40:17,713 - Eileen, who had supported remy 975 00:40:17,715 --> 00:40:19,749 Through the entire investigation, 976 00:40:19,751 --> 00:40:21,684 Was now living in rewind. 977 00:40:21,686 --> 00:40:25,221 Her doubts began while remy was in jail. 978 00:40:25,223 --> 00:40:29,091 - Just little things were starting to play in my head, 979 00:40:29,093 --> 00:40:30,426 And it scared me. 980 00:40:30,428 --> 00:40:33,363 - Eileen began thinking back to December 11th, 981 00:40:33,365 --> 00:40:35,231 The day jen disappeared, 982 00:40:35,233 --> 00:40:38,401 The day she gave remy a ride home from the y. 983 00:40:38,403 --> 00:40:40,703 She says it was out of character for remy 984 00:40:40,705 --> 00:40:43,239 To miss a chance to get her into bed. 985 00:40:43,241 --> 00:40:47,844 - Looking back, why didn't he invite me in? 986 00:40:47,846 --> 00:40:48,978 No one was home, 987 00:40:48,980 --> 00:40:51,113 Jen was shopping, 988 00:40:51,115 --> 00:40:52,715 The kids were at school. 989 00:40:52,717 --> 00:40:54,016 - So she wondered, 990 00:40:54,018 --> 00:40:56,519 Had he been cleaning up a murder scene? 991 00:40:56,521 --> 00:40:58,855 Eileen went to court the day remy took the stand 992 00:40:58,857 --> 00:41:00,857 And listened. 993 00:41:00,859 --> 00:41:03,125 - I knew he was lying. 994 00:41:03,127 --> 00:41:04,827 You know? I-I could tell. 995 00:41:04,829 --> 00:41:07,363 Some of the things he was saying-- 996 00:41:07,365 --> 00:41:08,731 I needed to hear-- 997 00:41:08,733 --> 00:41:11,801 I needed to hear how he was talking, 998 00:41:11,803 --> 00:41:14,136 How it was sounding coming out of his mouth. 999 00:41:14,138 --> 00:41:17,674 - What do you think happened that day 1000 00:41:17,676 --> 00:41:19,342 When you run it through your mind? 1001 00:41:19,344 --> 00:41:22,078 - He knew I was gone, he knew I was back home, 1002 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,613 And he was angry. 1003 00:41:23,615 --> 00:41:28,485 And I think jen had decided that, "I'm moving on too", 1004 00:41:28,487 --> 00:41:31,754 And I think he just couldn't handle it. 1005 00:41:31,756 --> 00:41:33,656 I just think he just snapped. 1006 00:41:33,658 --> 00:41:35,258 - Eileen started to worry 1007 00:41:35,260 --> 00:41:37,693 What would happen if remy was acquitted. 1008 00:41:37,695 --> 00:41:41,430 He was sending her messages on facebook from court. 1009 00:41:41,432 --> 00:41:45,134 - He was on his lawyer's laptop messaging me, 1010 00:41:45,136 --> 00:41:46,503 Telling me how much he loved me 1011 00:41:46,505 --> 00:41:49,839 And how could I give up on him? 1012 00:41:49,841 --> 00:41:51,574 - After three weeks of trial, 1013 00:41:51,576 --> 00:41:53,509 The jurors got the case. 1014 00:41:53,511 --> 00:41:57,246 They filed back into court just three hours later. 1015 00:41:57,248 --> 00:42:00,182 - With respect to count one of the indictment, 1016 00:42:00,184 --> 00:42:03,553 Charging the crime with murder in the second degree, 1017 00:42:03,555 --> 00:42:05,288 How do you find the defendant? 1018 00:42:05,290 --> 00:42:07,156 Guilty or not guilty? 1019 00:42:07,158 --> 00:42:10,459 - We find the defendant guilty. 1020 00:42:10,461 --> 00:42:12,395 - He took her away from everyone, 1021 00:42:12,397 --> 00:42:14,897 He took her away. 1022 00:42:14,899 --> 00:42:18,267 She was just the nicest, caring person 1023 00:42:18,269 --> 00:42:21,170 I think that I ever met. 1024 00:42:21,172 --> 00:42:24,774 She was just- she was nice to everyone. 1025 00:42:24,776 --> 00:42:27,610 - Remy was sentenced to 25 years-to-life. 1026 00:42:27,612 --> 00:42:30,346 And from behind bars he faced another charge, 1027 00:42:30,348 --> 00:42:31,614 Bribery. 1028 00:42:31,616 --> 00:42:34,417 Offering a corrections officer $100,000 1029 00:42:34,419 --> 00:42:35,985 To help him escape. 1030 00:42:35,987 --> 00:42:39,088 He pleaded guilty to the bribery charge. 1031 00:42:39,090 --> 00:42:41,057 Then, one more twist, 1032 00:42:41,059 --> 00:42:43,092 Two years after the murder trial, 1033 00:42:43,094 --> 00:42:44,294 Remy won an appeal, 1034 00:42:44,296 --> 00:42:47,363 Citing ineffective assistance from his attorney. 1035 00:42:47,365 --> 00:42:49,298 His conviction was thrown out, 1036 00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:51,634 But before he could be retried, 1037 00:42:51,636 --> 00:42:54,437 A higher court reversed that decision. 1038 00:42:54,439 --> 00:42:57,240 Remy remains in prison. 1039 00:42:57,242 --> 00:42:59,308 And eileen, a devoted mom, 1040 00:42:59,310 --> 00:43:01,510 Has decided to face her regrets, 1041 00:43:01,512 --> 00:43:05,448 Her mistakes, her deep sorrow head on. 1042 00:43:05,450 --> 00:43:07,517 - Do you wish you would never have met him? 1043 00:43:07,519 --> 00:43:09,452 - Yeah, I do. 1044 00:43:09,454 --> 00:43:13,723 I feel like, honestly, things would be okay 1045 00:43:13,725 --> 00:43:16,025 If I hadn't walked into their lives. 1046 00:43:16,027 --> 00:43:19,261 - You did something that was wrong 1047 00:43:19,263 --> 00:43:20,997 In pretty much everybody's book. 1048 00:43:20,999 --> 00:43:22,431 - Mm-hmm. 1049 00:43:22,433 --> 00:43:25,935 - Does it make you a bad person? 1050 00:43:25,937 --> 00:43:28,871 - It was wrong, absolutely. 1051 00:43:28,873 --> 00:43:30,640 I am not a bad person. 1052 00:43:32,310 --> 00:43:35,811 And I will never forgive myself. 1053 00:43:35,813 --> 00:43:38,981 I'm so very sorry. 1054 00:43:38,983 --> 00:43:40,750 So very sorry. 1055 00:43:40,752 --> 00:43:43,019 ♪♪ 1056 00:43:43,021 --> 00:43:44,220 - That's all for this edition 1057 00:43:44,222 --> 00:43:46,822 Of "dateline: Secrets uncovered". 1058 00:43:46,824 --> 00:43:49,258 I'm craig melvin, thank you for watching.