1 00:00:08,375 --> 00:00:11,277 and this is "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 2 00:00:16,483 --> 00:00:17,350 - It was horrible. 3 00:00:17,384 --> 00:00:18,418 We're normal people, 4 00:00:18,451 --> 00:00:19,853 and the person you're dealing with 5 00:00:19,886 --> 00:00:21,421 is a psychopath. 6 00:00:21,454 --> 00:00:24,257 - It's the story that haunted the country: 7 00:00:24,290 --> 00:00:26,159 the case of Susan Powell. 8 00:00:26,192 --> 00:00:28,661 - I was like, "This can't be real." 9 00:00:28,695 --> 00:00:30,630 And he professed to love them. 10 00:00:32,632 --> 00:00:34,701 - Could it have been prevented? 11 00:00:36,603 --> 00:00:38,538 - As you listen to it now, what does it do to you? 12 00:00:38,571 --> 00:00:40,173 - It's excruciating. 13 00:00:40,206 --> 00:00:43,643 - The 9-1-1 dispatcher shares his story about that day. 14 00:00:43,677 --> 00:00:48,114 - I wish I had recognized the urgency of the situation. 15 00:00:48,148 --> 00:00:52,686 - Also, the startling details of a plot unfolding. 16 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:54,254 - Nobody knew what was going on. 17 00:00:54,287 --> 00:00:56,923 - And a father's unraveling. 18 00:00:56,956 --> 00:01:00,226 - He just saw there was no way out. 19 00:01:00,260 --> 00:01:03,329 - Intimate emails from Susan herself, 20 00:01:03,363 --> 00:01:06,833 the young mother's private fears in her own words. 21 00:01:07,934 --> 00:01:11,237 - It's the genuine belief of a good many people 22 00:01:11,271 --> 00:01:13,073 that you killed her. 23 00:01:13,073 --> 00:01:16,843 - Her husband speaks, a final, eerie interview. 24 00:01:16,876 --> 00:01:19,312 - I love my sons more than anything. 25 00:01:19,346 --> 00:01:22,515 I put them first. I put my family first. 26 00:01:22,549 --> 00:01:30,690 ** 27 00:01:30,724 --> 00:01:34,828 - Hello, and welcome to "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 28 00:01:34,861 --> 00:01:37,797 The details are hard to believe. 29 00:01:37,831 --> 00:01:41,101 The disappearance of a young mom named Susan Powell 30 00:01:41,101 --> 00:01:43,837 and what befell her two little boys. 31 00:01:43,870 --> 00:01:46,272 Her husband Josh talked to us 32 00:01:46,306 --> 00:01:50,143 while possibly concealing unimaginable secrets. 33 00:01:50,176 --> 00:01:54,514 Would investigators ever learn what happened to Susan? 34 00:01:54,547 --> 00:01:56,116 Here's Keith Morrison with... 35 00:01:59,753 --> 00:02:02,722 - It is so sad to look at them now, 36 00:02:02,756 --> 00:02:05,925 this apparently perfectly normal family, 37 00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:08,194 just a young father and his two young sons, 38 00:02:08,228 --> 00:02:10,630 walking a postcard shore, 39 00:02:10,663 --> 00:02:13,066 skipping rocks across the surface, 40 00:02:13,099 --> 00:02:16,236 but under the surface of the man's own skin, 41 00:02:16,269 --> 00:02:19,539 well, what was beneath the surface? 42 00:02:19,572 --> 00:02:23,643 How in the name of heaven did this... 43 00:02:23,677 --> 00:02:25,245 come to this? 44 00:02:39,359 --> 00:02:40,593 - You'll hear an exclusive interview 45 00:02:40,627 --> 00:02:42,796 with the man who took that call 46 00:02:42,829 --> 00:02:44,364 and who has been criticized 47 00:02:44,397 --> 00:02:46,332 for not getting help immediately. 48 00:02:46,366 --> 00:02:48,868 And you find yourself vilified, really. 49 00:02:48,902 --> 00:02:51,304 What was that like? - Well, i-it's awful. 50 00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:54,507 Part of the problem is that, like most people, I think, 51 00:02:54,541 --> 00:02:58,111 um, I was aware of Josh Powell's story, 52 00:02:58,144 --> 00:03:01,581 but I didn't associate his name with the story. 53 00:03:01,614 --> 00:03:03,950 - We will retrace Josh Powell's last steps, 54 00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:06,820 mysterious trips to a gas station, 55 00:03:06,853 --> 00:03:08,388 a storage locker where police said 56 00:03:08,421 --> 00:03:10,957 they found a quilt with blood on it, 57 00:03:11,057 --> 00:03:13,460 and the bank where, in the surveillance photo, 58 00:03:13,493 --> 00:03:16,896 he has the look of a man unglued. 59 00:03:16,930 --> 00:03:18,465 - And nobody knew what was going on. 60 00:03:18,498 --> 00:03:21,501 He took more than three or four substantial steps 61 00:03:21,534 --> 00:03:23,336 to get ready for his death. 62 00:03:23,370 --> 00:03:27,207 - We'll hear investigators try to fathom the unfathomable. 63 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,743 - What's the motive for him killing his kids? 64 00:03:29,776 --> 00:03:34,180 Is it that they started knowing a little too much? 65 00:03:34,214 --> 00:03:36,316 - And in his last interview, 66 00:03:36,349 --> 00:03:38,518 we'll hear from Josh Powell himself, 67 00:03:38,551 --> 00:03:40,754 who offered, like the negative of a film, 68 00:03:40,787 --> 00:03:43,223 a bizarre reversal of the truth. 69 00:03:43,256 --> 00:03:45,759 - I love my sons more than anything. 70 00:03:45,792 --> 00:03:49,095 I put them first. I put my family first. 71 00:03:49,095 --> 00:03:51,097 - On February 5, 2012, 72 00:03:51,097 --> 00:03:52,766 while the rest of the country was settling down 73 00:03:52,799 --> 00:03:54,601 to watch the Super Bowl, 74 00:03:54,634 --> 00:03:58,738 Josh Powell was setting a trap for his own young sons. 75 00:03:58,772 --> 00:04:00,840 - What happened in there was really only 76 00:04:00,874 --> 00:04:04,511 the last chapter of a very long, sad story, 77 00:04:04,544 --> 00:04:07,180 of fathers and sons, and husbands and wives, 78 00:04:07,213 --> 00:04:10,483 sexual delusions, murder, suicide, 79 00:04:10,517 --> 00:04:13,253 and secrets. 80 00:04:13,286 --> 00:04:14,587 Some of those secrets, no doubt, 81 00:04:14,621 --> 00:04:17,057 were burned up in the fire, 82 00:04:17,090 --> 00:04:19,259 but some things, we do know, 83 00:04:19,292 --> 00:04:21,828 and they go to the darkest recesses 84 00:04:21,861 --> 00:04:23,697 of the human heart. 85 00:04:23,730 --> 00:04:25,465 Our story begins years ago, 86 00:04:25,498 --> 00:04:30,136 when a cheerful young woman named Susan Cox fell for Josh. 87 00:04:30,170 --> 00:04:32,605 Chuck and Judy Cox are Susan's parents. 88 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:33,673 As they spoke to us, 89 00:04:33,707 --> 00:04:35,842 they confessed they were still in a kind of shock 90 00:04:35,875 --> 00:04:39,212 after the disaster that claimed their two young grandsons, 91 00:04:39,245 --> 00:04:41,081 and they recalled so clearly 92 00:04:41,114 --> 00:04:44,084 their early fears about their daughter's beau. 93 00:04:44,084 --> 00:04:46,786 - I had a very bad feeling 94 00:04:46,820 --> 00:04:49,589 every time I saw him. 95 00:04:49,622 --> 00:04:53,493 I even asked my daughter, "Why are you marrying him?" 96 00:04:53,526 --> 00:04:55,395 - Josh's sister, Jennifer Graves, 97 00:04:55,428 --> 00:04:59,366 told us that as a child, she was wary of him, too. 98 00:04:59,399 --> 00:05:00,367 - When Josh was a boy, 99 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,802 he was troubled in some ways, wasn't he? 100 00:05:02,836 --> 00:05:04,771 - There were some issues, yeah. 101 00:05:04,804 --> 00:05:06,106 - Jennifer said much of the problems 102 00:05:06,139 --> 00:05:08,441 stemmed from her father, Josh's father. 103 00:05:08,475 --> 00:05:11,177 She was estranged from him when we spoke to her. 104 00:05:11,211 --> 00:05:12,946 Their mother divorced him years ago, 105 00:05:13,046 --> 00:05:16,316 and in court papers alleged he was abusive. 106 00:05:16,349 --> 00:05:19,352 - I was about 14 when I kind of woke up 107 00:05:19,386 --> 00:05:22,288 and realized my dad is wacko. 108 00:05:22,322 --> 00:05:25,859 He's just on a different-- different trajectory, 109 00:05:25,892 --> 00:05:27,360 and not a good one. 110 00:05:27,394 --> 00:05:30,430 - She is talking about Steven Powell. 111 00:05:30,463 --> 00:05:33,466 You're gonna learn much more about him later. 112 00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:34,834 - What was it about his trajectory 113 00:05:34,868 --> 00:05:36,236 that bothered you or disturbed you? 114 00:05:36,269 --> 00:05:40,907 - He just had a really negative outlook on life. 115 00:05:40,940 --> 00:05:44,477 He was down on, you know, just everything. 116 00:05:44,511 --> 00:05:46,913 - An outlook he seemed to have passed on to Josh, 117 00:05:46,946 --> 00:05:50,817 which, paradoxically, seemed to attract Susan. 118 00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:53,720 - I think she felt sorry for him. 119 00:05:53,753 --> 00:05:56,356 Uh, he didn't have many friends. - Mm-hmm. 120 00:05:56,389 --> 00:06:01,294 - And, I think she felt she could make him happy 121 00:06:01,327 --> 00:06:03,029 and that he would change. 122 00:06:03,063 --> 00:06:04,564 - They married in the Mormon church 123 00:06:04,597 --> 00:06:08,034 and certainly looked happy in those early photos. 124 00:06:08,068 --> 00:06:09,836 But later, the couple moved to Utah, 125 00:06:09,869 --> 00:06:13,306 moved in temporarily with Jennifer and her husband Kirk. 126 00:06:13,340 --> 00:06:15,175 - What was their relationship like then, 127 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:17,310 as far as you could tell? - It was a little rough. 128 00:06:17,344 --> 00:06:20,213 She would kind of order him around a little bit, 129 00:06:20,246 --> 00:06:24,884 and-and he wanted to, uh, control her 130 00:06:24,918 --> 00:06:28,121 and not let her go to some activities with me. 131 00:06:28,154 --> 00:06:31,057 - Josh worked, sometimes, in real estate 132 00:06:31,057 --> 00:06:32,792 and as a web designer. 133 00:06:32,826 --> 00:06:35,061 When Susan went into labor with their first child, 134 00:06:35,061 --> 00:06:37,964 say Susan's parents, Josh, working right there at home, 135 00:06:38,064 --> 00:06:41,067 said he was too busy to drive her to the hospital. 136 00:06:41,101 --> 00:06:44,237 They did, and when he finally arrived... 137 00:06:44,270 --> 00:06:45,538 - He sits in the back of the room 138 00:06:45,572 --> 00:06:47,640 workin' on his computer. - While she's in labor? 139 00:06:47,674 --> 00:06:50,710 - Yeah. It was a really odd experience. 140 00:06:50,744 --> 00:06:52,679 - They named the baby Charlie. 141 00:06:52,712 --> 00:06:55,248 Braden followed two years later. 142 00:06:55,281 --> 00:06:57,717 But having kids only seemed to increase the friction 143 00:06:57,751 --> 00:06:59,853 between Susan and Josh. 144 00:06:59,886 --> 00:07:02,122 - She would be wanting to put them to bed. 145 00:07:02,155 --> 00:07:04,524 She would even go so far as to get them in bed, 146 00:07:04,557 --> 00:07:06,159 and then he would get mad 147 00:07:06,192 --> 00:07:08,028 and tell them to get out of bed and not tell-- 148 00:07:08,061 --> 00:07:10,096 not do what Mom told them to do. 149 00:07:10,130 --> 00:07:11,931 - Where'd Josh get these parenting ideas? 150 00:07:12,032 --> 00:07:14,034 - I'm sure from my dad. 151 00:07:14,067 --> 00:07:18,038 - More and more influence from Dad, said Jennifer. 152 00:07:18,038 --> 00:07:21,841 - Josh started talking on the phone with my dad a lot. 153 00:07:21,875 --> 00:07:25,145 He would spend multiple hours 154 00:07:25,178 --> 00:07:28,048 multiple times a week on the phone with him, 155 00:07:28,081 --> 00:07:32,318 and Susan would complain to me 156 00:07:32,352 --> 00:07:34,254 about how Josh would just 157 00:07:34,287 --> 00:07:38,725 become unbearable to live with. 158 00:07:38,758 --> 00:07:40,060 It was really obvious to her 159 00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:44,431 that my dad was trying to drive a wedge between them. 160 00:07:44,464 --> 00:07:45,865 - It seemed to be working. 161 00:07:45,899 --> 00:07:47,200 Jennifer shared something with us 162 00:07:47,233 --> 00:07:48,968 she has never made public before: 163 00:07:49,069 --> 00:07:50,937 excerpts of emails from Susan. 164 00:07:50,970 --> 00:07:53,740 Did they contain hints of what was coming? 165 00:07:53,773 --> 00:07:55,308 In one of them, she describes her attempts 166 00:07:55,342 --> 00:07:57,210 to rekindle romance with Josh. 167 00:08:06,553 --> 00:08:08,054 - I think it's easy to say 168 00:08:08,088 --> 00:08:12,192 that Josh learned from his dad how to treat women. 169 00:08:12,225 --> 00:08:13,760 - And then there's another email 170 00:08:13,793 --> 00:08:15,595 that suggests Susan was actually afraid of him. 171 00:08:30,076 --> 00:08:34,047 - Why wouldn't he... just... 172 00:08:34,047 --> 00:08:36,816 get a divorce? Leave? 173 00:08:36,850 --> 00:08:39,652 - Well, um-- - Because she had an income. 174 00:08:39,686 --> 00:08:41,421 She was the mom. 175 00:08:41,454 --> 00:08:42,655 There was a very strong argument 176 00:08:42,689 --> 00:08:44,891 that the boys would have gone with her. 177 00:08:44,924 --> 00:08:46,826 - And so they believe 178 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:50,563 Josh found another solution to his problem. 179 00:08:53,166 --> 00:08:55,268 - And I sat on this feeling, 180 00:08:55,301 --> 00:08:58,605 this gut-sinking, 181 00:08:58,638 --> 00:09:01,207 terrible feeling, 182 00:09:01,241 --> 00:09:03,576 that he has done something to her. 183 00:09:15,755 --> 00:09:16,289 - December 7, 2009, 184 00:09:17,257 --> 00:09:20,727 gone gray and cold in Salt Late City, a Monday. 185 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,563 Josh and Susan were both expected at work. 186 00:09:23,596 --> 00:09:25,198 - And neither one of them had shown up, 187 00:09:25,231 --> 00:09:27,534 and neither one of them had called, 188 00:09:27,567 --> 00:09:31,371 and they were supposed to have dropped off their kids. 189 00:09:31,404 --> 00:09:33,540 - Dropped them off at daycare, she means. 190 00:09:33,573 --> 00:09:34,741 So the daycare center people 191 00:09:34,774 --> 00:09:37,510 called their emergency contact, Jennifer. 192 00:09:37,544 --> 00:09:39,713 She went to Josh and Susan's house. 193 00:09:39,746 --> 00:09:41,114 It was empty. 194 00:09:41,147 --> 00:09:43,450 - The feeling hit me really strongly 195 00:09:43,483 --> 00:09:45,618 that Josh had done something to her. 196 00:09:45,652 --> 00:09:47,554 - Hindsight, perhaps? 197 00:09:47,587 --> 00:09:51,157 Or the insight of someone who had grown up with Josh Powell? 198 00:09:51,191 --> 00:09:53,059 I said, "You know, hon, don't worry about this. 199 00:09:53,059 --> 00:09:55,562 "This is just a couple and their kids. 200 00:09:55,595 --> 00:09:58,798 "They're off. They're adults. They'll be fine." 201 00:09:58,832 --> 00:10:00,133 - Then in the late afternoon, 202 00:10:00,166 --> 00:10:03,470 Josh suddenly showed up with the boys, 203 00:10:03,503 --> 00:10:06,206 without Susan. - And I remember the feeling 204 00:10:06,239 --> 00:10:07,874 I had at that time. - Which was what? 205 00:10:07,907 --> 00:10:10,910 - Which was Josh has done something. 206 00:10:10,944 --> 00:10:13,246 - Josh told a story no one could believe, 207 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:15,148 that the previous night, Sunday, 208 00:10:15,181 --> 00:10:17,083 he decided to take the boys camping, 209 00:10:17,117 --> 00:10:19,753 left around midnight, he said, blew off work, 210 00:10:19,786 --> 00:10:22,889 drove almost 100 miles, slept in the family van 211 00:10:22,922 --> 00:10:25,291 in temperatures well below freezing, 212 00:10:25,325 --> 00:10:28,895 then drove back home to find Susan gone. 213 00:10:28,928 --> 00:10:32,699 He said he had no idea what happened to her. 214 00:10:32,732 --> 00:10:35,068 - When he came up with that story about going camping, 215 00:10:35,101 --> 00:10:37,671 I said, "No." 216 00:10:37,704 --> 00:10:41,541 I got a really sick feeling that, no, this is-is not good. 217 00:10:41,574 --> 00:10:46,112 * Silent night * 218 00:10:46,146 --> 00:10:49,049 - And yet they did what they felt they should do. 219 00:10:49,082 --> 00:10:50,617 They rallied around Josh. 220 00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:52,819 They pleaded for Susan's safe return. 221 00:10:52,852 --> 00:10:53,853 - We want to find her, 222 00:10:53,887 --> 00:10:56,389 return her to her husband and children. 223 00:10:56,423 --> 00:10:57,457 - Within ten days, 224 00:10:57,490 --> 00:10:59,359 police declared Josh a person of interest 225 00:10:59,392 --> 00:11:00,894 in Susan's disappearance. 226 00:11:00,927 --> 00:11:05,198 He stopped talking to police and then left town, 227 00:11:05,231 --> 00:11:07,801 packed up his possessions and his precious sons, 228 00:11:07,834 --> 00:11:10,337 left Utah to go live in Washington 229 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:12,472 with his father, Steven. 230 00:11:12,505 --> 00:11:14,908 When we spoke to him in 2011, 231 00:11:14,941 --> 00:11:17,544 he told us he interrogated his son. 232 00:11:17,577 --> 00:11:20,080 - Josh, you know, the most abusive thing 233 00:11:20,113 --> 00:11:23,283 that a-that a father could ever do 234 00:11:23,316 --> 00:11:25,885 is, um, murder his wife. 235 00:11:25,919 --> 00:11:27,354 You know, things like that. I wanted to-- 236 00:11:27,387 --> 00:11:28,855 - You were testing him. - I was testing him. 237 00:11:28,888 --> 00:11:31,424 I wanted to see his reaction to this kind of stuff. 238 00:11:31,458 --> 00:11:33,460 - And? - It was good. 239 00:11:33,493 --> 00:11:34,928 I was totally satisfied with it. 240 00:11:34,961 --> 00:11:38,565 I mean, to me, he passed with flying colors. 241 00:11:38,598 --> 00:11:40,533 - As for Susan, he said, 242 00:11:40,567 --> 00:11:43,470 she had just run off with another man most likely. 243 00:11:43,503 --> 00:11:46,006 - Susan was very open 244 00:11:46,106 --> 00:11:48,141 and, I would say, very aggressive 245 00:11:48,174 --> 00:11:51,511 in, uh, male/female relationships, 246 00:11:51,544 --> 00:11:54,014 and she called the shots. 247 00:11:54,114 --> 00:11:55,915 - How did he know that? 248 00:11:55,949 --> 00:11:57,550 Steven claims Susan had developed 249 00:11:57,584 --> 00:12:01,721 a long-standing crush on him. 250 00:12:01,755 --> 00:12:04,190 - Susan would come into my office 251 00:12:04,224 --> 00:12:07,427 after she waxed her legs, and she would sit there 252 00:12:07,460 --> 00:12:10,096 and she would say, "You know, feel my legs. 253 00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:12,232 "They're pretty smooth," and so-- yeah, I know. 254 00:12:12,265 --> 00:12:14,167 - Josh wasn't concerned about this? 255 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:15,935 - You know, I didn't talk to Josh about it. 256 00:12:15,969 --> 00:12:19,339 I mean, you know, I just enjoyed the moment. 257 00:12:19,372 --> 00:12:23,076 - Steven enjoyed quite a few moments with Susan, he said. 258 00:12:23,076 --> 00:12:25,078 Like when he'd hand her the baby. 259 00:12:25,078 --> 00:12:29,115 - She'd come up and press herself against my hands, 260 00:12:29,149 --> 00:12:30,717 and then I'd have to, you know, 261 00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:35,622 pull my hands out from between her and-and Braden. 262 00:12:35,655 --> 00:12:37,724 Just, you know-- just to slip-slip away. 263 00:12:37,757 --> 00:12:39,125 You know, that kind of a thing. 264 00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:40,860 - He said his only regret 265 00:12:40,894 --> 00:12:43,730 was not going a little further with her. 266 00:12:43,763 --> 00:12:45,398 - I mean, it's not like I didn't enjoy 267 00:12:45,432 --> 00:12:47,400 that kind of a little thing. 268 00:12:47,434 --> 00:12:50,236 - It was so easy for him to tell stories. 269 00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:52,739 Susan could not defend herself. 270 00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:54,808 - What he says is not based in reality. 271 00:12:54,841 --> 00:12:56,743 - Josh's sister, Jennifer Graves, 272 00:12:56,776 --> 00:12:59,479 was a confidant of Susan, and of course, 273 00:12:59,512 --> 00:13:03,450 as his daughter, she already knew all about Steven. 274 00:13:03,483 --> 00:13:06,286 - He might have felt these things for her. 275 00:13:06,319 --> 00:13:09,189 He might have been sexually attracted to her, 276 00:13:09,222 --> 00:13:11,725 but she did not reciprocate. 277 00:13:11,758 --> 00:13:13,526 - For a very few uncomfortable months, 278 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:15,228 she said, early in their marriage, 279 00:13:15,261 --> 00:13:17,597 Susan and Josh lived with Steven. 280 00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:19,466 - They were set up in the dining room, 281 00:13:19,499 --> 00:13:23,470 so they had put up sheets to-- for the privacy, 282 00:13:23,503 --> 00:13:26,072 and she had caught my dad spying on her. 283 00:13:26,072 --> 00:13:28,074 - Did she say how it made her feel? 284 00:13:28,074 --> 00:13:31,277 - Oh, she definitely was creeped out by it. 285 00:13:31,311 --> 00:13:33,313 He definitely made her uncomfortable. 286 00:13:33,346 --> 00:13:36,750 There was one incident where they were in a car. 287 00:13:36,783 --> 00:13:40,086 He said, "Would you be willing to share? 288 00:13:40,086 --> 00:13:42,856 "Josh and I can just share you." 289 00:13:42,889 --> 00:13:44,924 - And now, Susan was missing. 290 00:13:44,958 --> 00:13:47,093 Josh was still a person of interest. 291 00:13:47,127 --> 00:13:49,929 Steven was telling lewd stories, 292 00:13:49,963 --> 00:13:52,132 and these men had Susan's children, 293 00:13:52,165 --> 00:13:54,000 the Cox's grandchildren. 294 00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:56,503 - They were being raised by the same person 295 00:13:56,536 --> 00:13:57,570 who had raised Josh, 296 00:13:57,604 --> 00:14:02,208 and my daughter was just 100% against them 297 00:14:02,242 --> 00:14:05,078 ever having anything to do with Steve. 298 00:14:05,111 --> 00:14:06,179 - And there they were in his house. 299 00:14:06,212 --> 00:14:07,347 - And here they were in his house, 300 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:11,051 because Josh went there. You know, brings them there. 301 00:14:11,051 --> 00:14:13,420 - But Josh's actions brought other people 302 00:14:13,453 --> 00:14:16,222 to his father's house, namely the police. 303 00:14:16,256 --> 00:14:19,726 In August, 2011, they arrived with a search warrant. 304 00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:21,761 - We've got probable cause to believe 305 00:14:21,795 --> 00:14:24,230 that there are some items of evidentiary value 306 00:14:24,264 --> 00:14:26,366 inside the home of the Powells. 307 00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,601 - They found plenty. 308 00:14:28,635 --> 00:14:30,737 Evidence that might eventually 309 00:14:30,770 --> 00:14:35,975 help turn the mystery into an incomprehensible tragedy, 310 00:14:36,076 --> 00:14:39,212 but back then, there was no way to know that. 311 00:14:39,245 --> 00:14:41,815 Even as we sat down for an extraordinary conversation 312 00:14:41,848 --> 00:14:44,117 with the person of interest, 313 00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:46,386 Josh Powell himself, 314 00:14:46,419 --> 00:14:49,923 no way to know then that this conversation 315 00:14:49,956 --> 00:14:52,492 would be the last one. 316 00:14:54,260 --> 00:14:55,762 - They're just trying to rattle your cage. 317 00:14:55,795 --> 00:14:57,097 - It would seem. 318 00:14:57,130 --> 00:14:59,432 - Are you rattled? - I'm pretty pissed off. 319 00:14:59,466 --> 00:15:02,702 - Josh Powell in his final television interview. 320 00:15:02,736 --> 00:15:06,339 Were there hints of what was to come? 321 00:15:17,884 --> 00:15:20,153 - It was August, 2011, still warm. 322 00:15:20,954 --> 00:15:22,922 The night Josh Powell came to see us 323 00:15:22,956 --> 00:15:24,591 to break his long silence. 324 00:15:24,624 --> 00:15:25,692 - You know everything. 325 00:15:25,725 --> 00:15:28,395 - An extraordinary conversation at the time, 326 00:15:28,428 --> 00:15:30,964 even more so in hindsight. 327 00:15:31,064 --> 00:15:33,099 As we spoke, the police were searching for evidence 328 00:15:33,133 --> 00:15:36,770 at his father's house in Puyallup, Washington. 329 00:15:36,803 --> 00:15:40,273 Josh seemed quite confident they wouldn't find anything. 330 00:15:40,306 --> 00:15:42,075 - Well, according to my attorney, 331 00:15:42,108 --> 00:15:45,445 the less they have on a person, 332 00:15:45,478 --> 00:15:48,348 the more they basically harass a person. 333 00:15:48,381 --> 00:15:50,183 - So what you're suggesting is they're just trying 334 00:15:50,216 --> 00:15:52,686 to rattle your cage. - It would seem. 335 00:15:52,719 --> 00:15:55,422 - Are you rattled? - I'm pretty pissed off. 336 00:15:55,455 --> 00:15:58,224 - Josh claimed he knew things about Susan's childhood 337 00:15:58,258 --> 00:16:00,193 that her parents were hiding. 338 00:16:00,226 --> 00:16:02,028 Susan's adult behavior, 339 00:16:02,062 --> 00:16:04,330 or at least Steven's lewd suggestions 340 00:16:04,364 --> 00:16:06,700 of her behavior, claimed Josh, 341 00:16:06,733 --> 00:16:09,502 were the result of childhood abuse, 342 00:16:09,536 --> 00:16:11,371 an allegation the Cox's dismissed 343 00:16:11,404 --> 00:16:13,473 as patently ridiculous. 344 00:16:13,506 --> 00:16:17,744 - I've known about things that she's told me about 345 00:16:17,777 --> 00:16:19,446 while she was growing up. 346 00:16:19,479 --> 00:16:21,748 - And you think that's the reason why, 347 00:16:21,781 --> 00:16:23,650 according to your father at least, 348 00:16:23,683 --> 00:16:25,652 she would come onto him. 349 00:16:25,685 --> 00:16:27,954 - I don't think people are characterizing that right. 350 00:16:30,357 --> 00:16:32,092 She's a flirtatious person. 351 00:16:32,125 --> 00:16:33,093 - I hate to tell you, Josh, 352 00:16:33,126 --> 00:16:36,062 that others who have seen that, um, 353 00:16:36,062 --> 00:16:38,932 interview with your father have sort of gone, 354 00:16:38,965 --> 00:16:42,302 "Ooh, that's totally inappropriate." 355 00:16:42,335 --> 00:16:43,870 Uh, "A", to behave that way, 356 00:16:43,903 --> 00:16:45,939 and then "B", to even talk about it. 357 00:16:45,972 --> 00:16:48,074 Do you ever get that sense 358 00:16:48,074 --> 00:16:50,744 from hearing him describe these things? 359 00:16:50,777 --> 00:16:54,147 - Well, I haven't had any real deep conversations 360 00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:55,849 with him about any of that stuff. 361 00:16:55,882 --> 00:17:00,086 - He hasn't told you those things-- those stories? 362 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,390 - I mean, I was there to see that, you know, 363 00:17:03,423 --> 00:17:05,458 Susan was always proud of her legs 364 00:17:05,492 --> 00:17:10,030 being cleanly waxed 365 00:17:10,063 --> 00:17:11,765 and how smooth they were. 366 00:17:11,798 --> 00:17:15,035 She would ask people to feel them. 367 00:17:15,035 --> 00:17:18,038 I told her I thought it was pretty inappropriate. 368 00:17:18,038 --> 00:17:20,674 - Josh was siding with his father, 369 00:17:20,707 --> 00:17:23,043 against just about everyone else, 370 00:17:23,043 --> 00:17:25,245 a fateful choice, it turned out. 371 00:17:25,278 --> 00:17:26,846 And what you're telling me 372 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,284 is that that story-- or those stories, rather, 373 00:17:31,317 --> 00:17:34,320 as told by your dad, are accurate, 374 00:17:34,354 --> 00:17:37,223 and the stories told by Jennifer Graves 375 00:17:37,257 --> 00:17:40,794 and Susan's friends that Susan was horrified by this 376 00:17:40,827 --> 00:17:42,495 and wanted to get the heck away from it 377 00:17:42,529 --> 00:17:47,267 as much as she could-- that those stories are lies? 378 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:50,070 - That's right. - So, on that night 379 00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:53,106 in December, 2009, 380 00:17:53,139 --> 00:17:54,841 when you went out to the desert 381 00:17:54,874 --> 00:17:58,211 with the kids to go camping, 382 00:17:58,244 --> 00:18:01,614 what happened to Susan? 383 00:18:01,648 --> 00:18:06,086 - I think that Susan simply left. 384 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,489 - Simply left? 385 00:18:09,522 --> 00:18:12,492 J-- I mean, just at midnight, 1 o'clock in the morning, 386 00:18:12,525 --> 00:18:15,028 just-- "I've had enough. I'm out of here." 387 00:18:16,863 --> 00:18:19,899 Was she angry those days? - No. 388 00:18:19,933 --> 00:18:22,302 - Was she distressed? - Nope. 389 00:18:22,335 --> 00:18:25,438 - Did she continue to assert that she loved you? 390 00:18:25,472 --> 00:18:26,906 - Yeah. 391 00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:28,341 - And God knows 392 00:18:28,375 --> 00:18:32,078 she must have loved your children. 393 00:18:32,112 --> 00:18:34,414 - Yeah. - And yet, 394 00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:36,750 she, at midnight, or 1 o'clock, 395 00:18:36,783 --> 00:18:40,153 or 2 o'clock in the morning that night in December, 396 00:18:40,186 --> 00:18:44,257 got up out of her bed, and went downstairs, 397 00:18:44,290 --> 00:18:47,193 and got on a bicycle or something 398 00:18:47,227 --> 00:18:49,295 or walked, and simply left? 399 00:18:52,732 --> 00:18:56,102 And has never, you know-- 400 00:18:56,136 --> 00:18:58,471 hasn't even sent you a note 401 00:18:58,505 --> 00:19:00,273 to suggest she's still alive. 402 00:19:00,306 --> 00:19:02,308 Is that what's happened? 403 00:19:02,342 --> 00:19:04,611 - I don't know what's happened to her. 404 00:19:04,644 --> 00:19:06,479 I don't know where she is. 405 00:19:06,513 --> 00:19:09,449 - It's the genuine belief, obviously, 406 00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:12,519 of a good many people who have been... 407 00:19:12,552 --> 00:19:15,455 following this strange saga 408 00:19:15,488 --> 00:19:17,657 that you killed her. 409 00:19:17,691 --> 00:19:20,160 That's the allegation that a lot of people believe. 410 00:19:20,193 --> 00:19:21,628 What can you say to them 411 00:19:21,661 --> 00:19:24,531 to make them change their minds? 412 00:19:24,564 --> 00:19:27,233 - I'd never hurt my wife. 413 00:19:27,267 --> 00:19:32,305 I'd never-- never hurt her. 414 00:19:32,339 --> 00:19:33,573 - And still, he claimed, 415 00:19:33,606 --> 00:19:36,109 Susan's parents were out to get him, 416 00:19:36,142 --> 00:19:38,445 to take his children away. 417 00:19:38,478 --> 00:19:39,846 - They started to try to say 418 00:19:39,879 --> 00:19:43,149 that my sons are in an emotionally-- 419 00:19:46,386 --> 00:19:49,422 some kind of emotional danger 420 00:19:49,456 --> 00:19:54,361 from being in my custody, 421 00:19:54,394 --> 00:19:57,097 and that's a completely unfair statement. 422 00:19:57,130 --> 00:19:59,699 - And that's why he did what he did, he said, 423 00:19:59,733 --> 00:20:01,668 when he and the boys encountered Chuck Cox 424 00:20:01,701 --> 00:20:03,436 at a hardware store 425 00:20:03,470 --> 00:20:06,172 a few months after Susan disappeared. 426 00:20:06,206 --> 00:20:11,311 - He said that he wanted to hug my children. 427 00:20:11,344 --> 00:20:13,213 I said, "No, you may not." 428 00:20:13,246 --> 00:20:16,116 - Those are his grandchildren, just as they're your children. 429 00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:18,018 I mean, shouldn't a grandfather 430 00:20:18,051 --> 00:20:20,787 be able to hug his grandchildren? 431 00:20:20,820 --> 00:20:24,290 - He should not be using them as pawns in the media. 432 00:20:24,324 --> 00:20:26,793 I love my sons more than anything. 433 00:20:26,826 --> 00:20:31,064 I put them first. I put my family first. 434 00:20:31,097 --> 00:20:35,035 - Words that now ring horribly false, of course. 435 00:20:35,068 --> 00:20:37,904 As do these about his missing wife 436 00:20:37,937 --> 00:20:39,939 and their two young sons. 437 00:20:39,973 --> 00:20:42,008 What do you tell them about her? 438 00:20:42,042 --> 00:20:45,278 - I just tell them that we don't know where she's at. 439 00:20:45,311 --> 00:20:47,714 - Do they understand? 440 00:20:47,747 --> 00:20:49,749 How much of it do they understand? 441 00:20:52,452 --> 00:20:54,287 - I think they understand... 442 00:20:57,257 --> 00:20:59,192 ...quite a bit. 443 00:20:59,225 --> 00:21:01,594 - Indeed, it now seems they did, 444 00:21:01,628 --> 00:21:05,532 and that too would play a role in what was coming. 445 00:21:05,565 --> 00:21:07,934 Do you worry that somebody will charge you with a crime 446 00:21:07,967 --> 00:21:10,904 that will prevent you from being with them? 447 00:21:10,937 --> 00:21:13,773 - Nope. 448 00:21:13,807 --> 00:21:16,443 - Don't think that's gonna happen? 449 00:21:16,476 --> 00:21:18,945 - Nope. - What makes you so sure? 450 00:21:18,978 --> 00:21:22,282 - Because I never did anything that someone 451 00:21:22,315 --> 00:21:24,351 would be able to charge me with. 452 00:21:24,384 --> 00:21:27,220 I never hurt Susan, 453 00:21:27,253 --> 00:21:30,123 and I had nothing to do with her disappearance. 454 00:21:30,156 --> 00:21:32,759 - Did he know how few believed him? 455 00:21:32,792 --> 00:21:35,261 In the end, it hardly mattered because, 456 00:21:35,295 --> 00:21:38,098 when police entered the secret places in his father's house, 457 00:21:38,131 --> 00:21:41,234 they found evidence of crimes, all right. 458 00:21:41,267 --> 00:21:44,137 Not the crimes they were looking for, 459 00:21:44,170 --> 00:21:47,407 but enough to push Josh Powell to the brink. 460 00:21:50,110 --> 00:21:52,979 - There are some videos and pictures of Susan. 461 00:21:53,013 --> 00:21:53,980 Somebody was hiding 462 00:21:54,014 --> 00:21:55,515 and shooting through curtains and doors. 463 00:21:55,548 --> 00:21:58,585 - Family secrets emerge... 464 00:22:09,763 --> 00:22:12,065 - Welcome back to "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 465 00:22:12,432 --> 00:22:14,067 I'm Craig Melvin. 466 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:17,604 They say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. 467 00:22:17,637 --> 00:22:18,805 According to family members, 468 00:22:18,838 --> 00:22:21,174 Josh Powell learned how to treat women 469 00:22:21,207 --> 00:22:23,410 from his father, Steven. 470 00:22:23,443 --> 00:22:25,578 Now, Josh was a person of interest 471 00:22:25,612 --> 00:22:27,781 in his wife Susan's disappearance. 472 00:22:27,814 --> 00:22:29,382 And Steven? 473 00:22:29,416 --> 00:22:30,984 Investigators were about to discover 474 00:22:31,084 --> 00:22:34,087 he had dark secrets of his own. 475 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:38,258 Back to Keith Morrison with "A Family's Story." 476 00:22:38,291 --> 00:22:39,993 - Charlie, there's a cave over there. 477 00:22:40,093 --> 00:22:42,429 - When we met Josh Powell in Puyallup, Washington, 478 00:22:42,462 --> 00:22:45,298 he and his dad Steven invited us to join them 479 00:22:45,331 --> 00:22:48,468 and Charlie and Braden on a family outing. 480 00:22:48,501 --> 00:22:50,170 It was summer, 2011. 481 00:22:50,203 --> 00:22:52,339 - All right, come on! - And a casual observer 482 00:22:52,372 --> 00:22:54,374 might never have guessed the circumstances 483 00:22:54,407 --> 00:22:55,842 that brought these two strange men 484 00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:57,644 and two little boys together. 485 00:22:57,677 --> 00:23:00,347 The kids appeared normal, happy. 486 00:23:00,380 --> 00:23:03,583 But of course by then for more than a year and a half, 487 00:23:03,616 --> 00:23:05,585 they'd been missing someone very dear to them: 488 00:23:05,618 --> 00:23:07,654 their mother, Susan Powell. 489 00:23:07,687 --> 00:23:09,556 And Susan's parents were sure 490 00:23:09,589 --> 00:23:12,258 Josh knew exactly what happened to her. 491 00:23:12,292 --> 00:23:13,660 When did you first think 492 00:23:13,693 --> 00:23:16,763 that Josh... killed Susan? 493 00:23:16,796 --> 00:23:18,765 - Probably when he came up with his 494 00:23:18,798 --> 00:23:20,934 "I went camping" routine. 495 00:23:20,967 --> 00:23:24,371 - But there was not yet enough evidence to charge him. 496 00:23:24,404 --> 00:23:27,173 And then, as Josh and I talked that evening 497 00:23:27,207 --> 00:23:28,341 at the end of August. 498 00:23:28,375 --> 00:23:30,143 The police raided his father's house, 499 00:23:30,176 --> 00:23:31,678 looking for more. 500 00:23:31,711 --> 00:23:33,646 And they did find evidence, 501 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,982 but not at all what they expected. 502 00:23:36,082 --> 00:23:38,084 - Well, we discovered a lot of computers 503 00:23:38,084 --> 00:23:40,086 and a lot of material. 504 00:23:40,086 --> 00:23:41,187 - Ed Troyer, 505 00:23:41,221 --> 00:23:42,889 of the Pierce County Sheriff's Department, 506 00:23:42,922 --> 00:23:45,892 describing what was seized from Steven Powell's home. 507 00:23:45,925 --> 00:23:47,894 - There was some child pornography in there. 508 00:23:47,927 --> 00:23:50,764 And there was some voyeuristic pictures and videos. 509 00:23:50,797 --> 00:23:53,967 - And not just filth dug up from the internet, 510 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,903 but rather material someone had filmed himself, 511 00:23:56,936 --> 00:23:58,705 in secret. 512 00:23:58,738 --> 00:24:01,307 That someone, said Troyer, was Steven Powell. 513 00:24:01,341 --> 00:24:04,544 - Pictures and videos that were taken from his house 514 00:24:04,577 --> 00:24:05,645 into the neighbor's house 515 00:24:05,679 --> 00:24:08,581 of little girls using bathroom showers 516 00:24:08,615 --> 00:24:11,651 both shot right from his own-- his own window. 517 00:24:11,685 --> 00:24:13,720 - Steven was arrested, hauled off to jail, 518 00:24:13,753 --> 00:24:16,222 and charged with 14 counts of voyeurism 519 00:24:16,256 --> 00:24:19,059 and one count of possessing child pornography, 520 00:24:19,092 --> 00:24:20,460 a felony. 521 00:24:23,063 --> 00:24:25,598 - This was the same Steven Powell, remember, 522 00:24:25,632 --> 00:24:27,300 who claimed his daughter in-law Susan 523 00:24:27,334 --> 00:24:30,503 had a serious crush on him before she disappeared. 524 00:24:30,537 --> 00:24:31,938 When he said it, 525 00:24:31,971 --> 00:24:34,674 it sounded like an old fool's fantasy. 526 00:24:34,708 --> 00:24:36,142 Now it turned out there was evidence 527 00:24:36,176 --> 00:24:40,080 that fantasy had a very dark undercurrent, 528 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,882 because there was another face, a familiar one, 529 00:24:42,916 --> 00:24:45,518 in Steven Powell's homemade porn stash. 530 00:24:45,552 --> 00:24:47,420 Tell me about the discovery of the videos 531 00:24:47,454 --> 00:24:49,289 involving Susan Powell. 532 00:24:49,322 --> 00:24:52,258 - There are some videos and pictures of Susan 533 00:24:52,292 --> 00:24:55,295 that were obviously taken without her consent 534 00:24:55,328 --> 00:24:56,596 or her knowledge. 535 00:24:56,629 --> 00:24:58,264 Somebody was hiding and taking and shooting 536 00:24:58,298 --> 00:25:00,600 through curtains and doors and taking pictures of her. 537 00:25:00,633 --> 00:25:02,335 - It had to have happened early in the marriage, 538 00:25:02,369 --> 00:25:04,704 when Susan and Josh, strapped for cash, 539 00:25:04,738 --> 00:25:06,906 moved in with Steven for a while. 540 00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:08,842 - And, you know, even though he said 541 00:25:08,875 --> 00:25:11,344 that she was interested in him, 542 00:25:11,378 --> 00:25:13,546 we believe that's all one big fantasy, 543 00:25:13,580 --> 00:25:15,782 and she absolutely despised him. 544 00:25:15,815 --> 00:25:18,918 - The charges brought against Steven Powell in 2011 545 00:25:18,952 --> 00:25:21,521 were ugly enough, but before long, 546 00:25:21,554 --> 00:25:24,157 they set in motion something much bigger. 547 00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:27,594 A full-on battle for control of Charlie and Braden. 548 00:25:27,627 --> 00:25:29,629 - We were able to take the kids out of the residence 549 00:25:29,662 --> 00:25:31,798 until an investigation was done, 550 00:25:31,831 --> 00:25:34,401 and the kids were placed with Susan's parents. 551 00:25:34,434 --> 00:25:36,936 - Susan's parents, Chuck and Judy Cox, 552 00:25:36,970 --> 00:25:40,306 in Josh and Steven's world, the enemy. 553 00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:42,108 - I had Braden in the back, for preschool, 554 00:25:42,142 --> 00:25:43,076 and we're driving and he says, 555 00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:45,078 "Grandpa, you need to change your name." 556 00:25:45,078 --> 00:25:47,514 "Why? My name's Charles Cox." 557 00:25:47,547 --> 00:25:51,084 He says, "Yeah. Charles Cox is a bad person, 558 00:25:51,117 --> 00:25:52,886 "so you need to change your name." 559 00:25:52,919 --> 00:25:54,554 "Who says Charles Cox is a bad person?" 560 00:25:54,587 --> 00:25:55,622 "Oh, my daddy." 561 00:25:55,655 --> 00:25:57,724 - Josh had done everything he could 562 00:25:57,757 --> 00:26:01,261 to keep Chuck and Judy away from his sons. 563 00:26:01,294 --> 00:26:03,363 Now they had the upper hand. 564 00:26:03,396 --> 00:26:06,866 - My clients, uh, believe it is very harmful 565 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:11,571 for these children to have been in the home of Steven Powell, 566 00:26:11,604 --> 00:26:14,908 who was deeply involved with pornography. 567 00:26:14,941 --> 00:26:16,576 - At this hearing that September, 568 00:26:16,609 --> 00:26:18,211 Josh Powell represented himself 569 00:26:18,244 --> 00:26:20,680 in family court, denied any knowledge 570 00:26:20,714 --> 00:26:22,449 of his father's alleged crimes, 571 00:26:22,482 --> 00:26:24,951 promised to keep the boys away from Steven, 572 00:26:25,051 --> 00:26:27,287 should the elder Powell somehow make bail. 573 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,557 But here you could almost see Josh unraveling. 574 00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:33,626 - I am a fit and qualified father. 575 00:26:33,660 --> 00:26:36,363 I am the natural father. I love my sons. 576 00:26:38,531 --> 00:26:42,469 And the manner in which they... 577 00:26:48,108 --> 00:26:51,277 manner in which they... 578 00:26:51,311 --> 00:26:53,947 were behaving leads me to believe 579 00:26:53,980 --> 00:26:57,817 that the irreparable harm that is occurring to my sons 580 00:26:57,851 --> 00:27:01,388 is having taken them out of the stable and happy home. 581 00:27:01,421 --> 00:27:03,556 - But then a prosecutor told the judge that so far 582 00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:06,226 only a small portion of the evidence had been examined, 583 00:27:06,259 --> 00:27:08,695 and while Josh Powell hadn't been charged yet, 584 00:27:08,728 --> 00:27:10,463 he still might be. 585 00:27:10,497 --> 00:27:14,034 - Mr. Powell is a subject of that investigation. 586 00:27:14,034 --> 00:27:16,136 And that's the concern that the department has. 587 00:27:16,169 --> 00:27:19,806 - So Josh lost that round, and lost the ones that followed, 588 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:22,075 including the very last one. 589 00:27:22,108 --> 00:27:24,477 The final defeat came when the judge ordered 590 00:27:24,511 --> 00:27:26,546 that the boys could stay with the Coxes 591 00:27:26,579 --> 00:27:29,416 for at least six more months. 592 00:27:29,449 --> 00:27:31,951 - So you got that favorable ruling. 593 00:27:32,052 --> 00:27:34,654 - Favorable ruling. A very good day, 594 00:27:34,688 --> 00:27:36,823 except Josh is still not arrested. 595 00:27:36,856 --> 00:27:38,958 Our daughter's still missing. 596 00:27:39,059 --> 00:27:42,462 - But those facts might have changed, too. 597 00:27:42,495 --> 00:27:44,698 With the second ruling from the judge that day, 598 00:27:44,731 --> 00:27:46,599 she ordered Josh Powell to undergo 599 00:27:46,633 --> 00:27:49,069 a psychosexual evaluation. 600 00:27:49,069 --> 00:27:52,205 Why? Because according to Utah investigators, 601 00:27:52,238 --> 00:27:55,208 some images had been found on a computer in his home 602 00:27:55,241 --> 00:27:58,378 back in 2009, the year Susan disappeared. 603 00:27:58,411 --> 00:28:00,013 - It was cartoons. 604 00:28:00,013 --> 00:28:01,448 The cartoons and the animation 605 00:28:01,481 --> 00:28:04,250 are of adults and kids having sex. 606 00:28:04,284 --> 00:28:06,820 - And Josh's evaluation 607 00:28:06,853 --> 00:28:09,622 was to include a polygraph test. 608 00:28:09,656 --> 00:28:11,057 A lie detector. 609 00:28:11,091 --> 00:28:13,827 - He had lost the custody of the kids, 610 00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:15,795 he had to undergo a lie detector, 611 00:28:15,829 --> 00:28:17,263 and what's he gonna tell 'em? 612 00:28:17,297 --> 00:28:21,334 And... I-- if they ask about Susan, 613 00:28:21,368 --> 00:28:23,236 with a lie detector on him. - Which they would have. 614 00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:26,072 - Which they would have. He's not gonna be able to lie. 615 00:28:26,106 --> 00:28:30,210 And I just saw that as, this is going to be... 616 00:28:30,243 --> 00:28:31,878 he's-- no way he's gonna get through this. 617 00:28:31,911 --> 00:28:33,279 - The trap was really closing in around-- 618 00:28:33,313 --> 00:28:35,815 - Yeah, he's feeling really closed in. 619 00:28:35,849 --> 00:28:38,551 - And if that wasn't pressure enough, 620 00:28:38,585 --> 00:28:40,086 there was this, too. 621 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,055 Rumors that Charlie and Braden 622 00:28:42,055 --> 00:28:44,691 were getting pretty comfortable with their grandparents. 623 00:28:44,724 --> 00:28:46,760 That they'd started talking... 624 00:28:46,793 --> 00:28:48,895 about that midnight camping trip. 625 00:28:51,898 --> 00:28:54,401 - He was explaining, "Well, mother's in the trunk." 626 00:28:54,434 --> 00:28:58,204 - And new information emerges about Josh's past. 627 00:28:58,238 --> 00:29:00,640 - There was a warning sign, way early. 628 00:29:06,211 --> 00:29:10,249 ** 629 00:29:11,283 --> 00:29:14,219 - Steven Powell was arrested for child pornography 630 00:29:14,253 --> 00:29:16,355 in September 2011. 631 00:29:16,388 --> 00:29:18,724 Josh Powell was under suspicion, 632 00:29:18,757 --> 00:29:21,026 and as Autumn deepened into Winter, 633 00:29:21,026 --> 00:29:23,762 Chuck and Judy Cox heard again and again 634 00:29:23,796 --> 00:29:25,831 the arrest of Josh Powell was next, 635 00:29:25,864 --> 00:29:28,033 could happen any day. 636 00:29:28,033 --> 00:29:30,469 And so they waited, held their breath, 637 00:29:30,502 --> 00:29:34,106 and took in the boys, Charlie and Braden. 638 00:29:34,139 --> 00:29:37,042 How was it living with those boys, 639 00:29:37,076 --> 00:29:38,610 for the months you had them? 640 00:29:38,644 --> 00:29:40,346 - How about exhausting? 641 00:29:40,379 --> 00:29:42,047 [chuckling] - Yeah, we went to bed 642 00:29:42,047 --> 00:29:43,649 exhausted every night. 643 00:29:43,682 --> 00:29:46,852 But it felt good to have the kids there. 644 00:29:46,885 --> 00:29:49,788 - The Coxes were much stricter disciplinarians than Josh. 645 00:29:49,822 --> 00:29:52,191 They enforced early bedtimes and regular meals 646 00:29:52,224 --> 00:29:55,327 and, according to Josh's sister and brother in-law, 647 00:29:55,361 --> 00:29:57,196 the kids thrived. 648 00:29:57,229 --> 00:29:58,564 Right after the custody hearing 649 00:29:58,597 --> 00:30:00,132 where they were finally in the Coxes' home, 650 00:30:00,165 --> 00:30:03,535 we saw them that day, and they were withdrawn 651 00:30:03,569 --> 00:30:07,773 and angry, and quiet, and then two months later, 652 00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:10,175 they were sittin' on laps and huggin' and playin', 653 00:30:10,209 --> 00:30:12,878 and listenin' while people read stories to them, 654 00:30:12,911 --> 00:30:14,947 and they were acting more like little boys. 655 00:30:14,980 --> 00:30:17,116 - We're also very concerned for the welfare 656 00:30:17,149 --> 00:30:18,317 of our grandchildren... 657 00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:20,786 - Chuck and Judy were determined to keep them, 658 00:30:20,819 --> 00:30:23,722 and as they battled Josh in family court, 659 00:30:23,756 --> 00:30:26,792 they began to turn up new and disturbing information 660 00:30:26,825 --> 00:30:29,294 about the man who married their daughter. 661 00:30:29,328 --> 00:30:33,065 They found it in the divorce papers of his father, Steven. 662 00:30:33,098 --> 00:30:34,533 - Right after Steve was arrested... 663 00:30:34,566 --> 00:30:36,435 - Yeah. - We went over to Spokane, 664 00:30:36,468 --> 00:30:38,637 and, uh, pulled up the record. 665 00:30:38,671 --> 00:30:41,006 - There were disturbing allegations in there, 666 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,277 that Josh had attempted suicide by hanging as a teenager. 667 00:30:45,310 --> 00:30:47,946 That he'd threatened his mother with a knife. 668 00:30:47,980 --> 00:30:51,450 And there was this story, about Josh and Steven. 669 00:30:51,483 --> 00:30:55,154 - There-there's the incident where Josh... 670 00:30:55,187 --> 00:30:57,623 killed his younger sister Lena's hamster, 671 00:30:57,656 --> 00:31:00,059 by smashing it against the side of the cage. 672 00:31:00,059 --> 00:31:04,063 And Josh's mother was outraged, and... 673 00:31:04,063 --> 00:31:07,399 Steve's response, according to the papers there, 674 00:31:07,433 --> 00:31:11,437 was "She just does not understand teenage humor." 675 00:31:11,470 --> 00:31:13,405 - Teenage humor? - Teenage humor. 676 00:31:13,439 --> 00:31:15,507 I was like, "Huh?" 677 00:31:15,541 --> 00:31:17,976 Uh, what on Earth are you talking about? 678 00:31:18,077 --> 00:31:19,244 - Yeah. - And-and one of 679 00:31:19,278 --> 00:31:22,514 the first things I've heard for killers is that they... 680 00:31:22,548 --> 00:31:24,316 abuse animals or kill animals. 681 00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:27,953 And there was a warning sign, way early. 682 00:31:27,986 --> 00:31:29,822 - Of course, they believed he was a killer, 683 00:31:29,855 --> 00:31:30,856 had killed their daughter, 684 00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:33,092 even though he hadn't been charged. 685 00:31:33,125 --> 00:31:37,096 And then, they say, the kids began to open up. 686 00:31:37,129 --> 00:31:40,666 - One of 'em told me one time, I think it was Charlie, 687 00:31:40,699 --> 00:31:43,002 that he hoped Mommy knew how to-- how to camp, 688 00:31:43,102 --> 00:31:45,504 or something, because she was out 689 00:31:45,537 --> 00:31:47,840 where she needed to know how to camp. 690 00:31:47,873 --> 00:31:50,542 - And they heard about an earlier episode, 691 00:31:50,576 --> 00:31:53,812 where one of the boys drew a picture at his preschool. 692 00:31:53,846 --> 00:31:57,383 He drew a car, two boys, and a dad. No mom. 693 00:31:57,416 --> 00:31:59,251 The teacher asked where she was. 694 00:31:59,284 --> 00:32:01,587 - "Well, mother's in the trunk," you know? 695 00:32:01,620 --> 00:32:04,156 And they knew who he was. 696 00:32:04,189 --> 00:32:05,290 - Hello. - All the while, 697 00:32:05,324 --> 00:32:07,760 even though the boys now lived with the Coxes, 698 00:32:07,793 --> 00:32:09,895 they made court-ordered visits to Josh, 699 00:32:09,928 --> 00:32:11,597 at the house he was renting. 700 00:32:11,630 --> 00:32:15,134 A house, police now say, he didn't really live in. 701 00:32:15,167 --> 00:32:16,902 - We believe that the house was staged 702 00:32:16,935 --> 00:32:19,705 just for the purpose of the visitation, 703 00:32:19,738 --> 00:32:21,674 and to make himself look like a good dad 704 00:32:21,707 --> 00:32:24,877 with the photos on the wall, the kid stuff, uh, 705 00:32:24,910 --> 00:32:27,212 the minivan in the driveway and the garage, 706 00:32:27,246 --> 00:32:31,517 and, um, unfortunately, it was everything but that. 707 00:32:31,550 --> 00:32:33,652 - Where did Josh actually live? 708 00:32:33,686 --> 00:32:35,387 Steven's house. 709 00:32:35,421 --> 00:32:37,690 And now that Josh seemed in danger of losing custody 710 00:32:37,723 --> 00:32:39,591 of the kids permanently, 711 00:32:39,625 --> 00:32:42,695 Chuck says he worried not about the boys so much, 712 00:32:42,728 --> 00:32:46,598 but about the social worker who took them to see Josh. 713 00:32:46,632 --> 00:32:49,401 - I was concerned that if she... 714 00:32:49,435 --> 00:32:52,171 if she confronted Josh in any way, 715 00:32:52,204 --> 00:32:55,607 that he might hurt her. 716 00:32:55,641 --> 00:32:58,811 - Which brings us inexorably to that Sunday. 717 00:32:58,844 --> 00:33:01,080 The first time the kids would visit Josh 718 00:33:01,113 --> 00:33:03,782 after he was ordered to take the polygraph. 719 00:33:03,816 --> 00:33:05,851 - I got a bad feeling about this. 720 00:33:05,884 --> 00:33:07,052 And I didn't really get a bad feeling 721 00:33:07,052 --> 00:33:10,055 until, like, Saturday. I was thinkin' "You know, 722 00:33:10,089 --> 00:33:13,192 "maybe I should ask somebody to... 723 00:33:13,225 --> 00:33:14,860 "have a little more security this time, 724 00:33:14,893 --> 00:33:17,062 "or maybe we should skip this visit." 725 00:33:17,062 --> 00:33:18,897 - The kids were having fun playing, 726 00:33:18,931 --> 00:33:20,466 didn't want to go. 727 00:33:20,499 --> 00:33:22,334 But of course, there wasn't a choice. 728 00:33:22,368 --> 00:33:23,602 They had to go. 729 00:33:23,635 --> 00:33:26,572 - I thought, I have to get them to go, 730 00:33:26,605 --> 00:33:29,842 or I'm breaking a law. 731 00:33:29,875 --> 00:33:32,077 And we'll get in trouble for it. 732 00:33:32,111 --> 00:33:34,713 - And so, she jollied them into it. 733 00:33:34,747 --> 00:33:36,915 - I said, "You'll do something fun." 734 00:33:36,949 --> 00:33:39,084 You know, "Daddy will have a project. 735 00:33:39,118 --> 00:33:41,887 "You'll get to eat with Daddy. You'll have fun." 736 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,624 - No idea, of course, about the careful plans 737 00:33:45,657 --> 00:33:48,360 Josh had been making for that visit. 738 00:33:48,394 --> 00:33:52,097 - Those plans include the unthinkable. 739 00:33:52,097 --> 00:33:55,901 And an urgent plea for help is the last chance to stop him. 740 00:33:58,170 --> 00:34:01,040 - You listen to that tape, and it's almost painful. 741 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,474 - It's excruciating. 742 00:34:09,149 --> 00:34:13,286 ** 743 00:34:14,487 --> 00:34:17,924 - He was a person of interest in Susan Powell's disappearance. 744 00:34:17,957 --> 00:34:20,960 The target of a relentless police investigation. 745 00:34:21,061 --> 00:34:24,164 His contacts with his two sons had been reduced by court order 746 00:34:24,197 --> 00:34:26,332 to a few hours twice a week. 747 00:34:26,366 --> 00:34:28,935 Rumors of an imminent arrest swirled around him. 748 00:34:28,968 --> 00:34:32,572 And Josh Powell was preparing to strike back. 749 00:34:32,605 --> 00:34:34,507 Here, what police have pieced together 750 00:34:34,541 --> 00:34:36,142 of his final days. 751 00:34:36,176 --> 00:34:38,111 On February 4th, 2012, 752 00:34:38,144 --> 00:34:40,613 Josh deposited his children's toys and clothing 753 00:34:40,647 --> 00:34:43,116 at a charity drop box near his house. 754 00:34:43,149 --> 00:34:46,586 At 11:32 AM, he walked into a bank, 755 00:34:46,619 --> 00:34:48,855 where he withdrew $7,000 in cash 756 00:34:48,888 --> 00:34:52,425 and transferred thousands more, police believe, to his sister, 757 00:34:52,459 --> 00:34:54,394 who was still close to him. 758 00:34:54,427 --> 00:34:57,630 At 1:30 PM, he arrived at this storage unit. 759 00:34:57,664 --> 00:35:01,101 Here, police said, he spent an hour and a half 760 00:35:01,134 --> 00:35:03,737 going through Susan's belongings. 761 00:35:03,770 --> 00:35:05,438 Then back in his minivan, 762 00:35:05,472 --> 00:35:08,475 he drove 10 miles out of town to this landfill, 763 00:35:08,508 --> 00:35:12,445 where he dumped a bundle of material from the storage unit. 764 00:35:12,479 --> 00:35:15,248 That evening, he walked into this department store, 765 00:35:15,281 --> 00:35:17,350 purchased two five-gallon gas cans 766 00:35:17,384 --> 00:35:19,085 and a pack of sterno, 767 00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:21,888 the stuff you use to keep food hot. 768 00:35:21,921 --> 00:35:25,258 Then he went to a gas station to fill those cans. 769 00:35:25,291 --> 00:35:27,794 The next morning Sunday, Josh composed emails 770 00:35:27,827 --> 00:35:29,963 to family members. Most just said, 771 00:35:30,063 --> 00:35:32,432 "I'm sorry. Good bye." 772 00:35:32,465 --> 00:35:35,535 At 10:30, he called his sister Alina's cell phone. 773 00:35:59,092 --> 00:36:01,027 His alarmed sister called 911. 774 00:36:11,571 --> 00:36:14,374 And then Josh doused the house with gasoline, 775 00:36:14,407 --> 00:36:16,710 prepared the axe he would use on the boys 776 00:36:16,743 --> 00:36:18,678 before he lit the match. 777 00:36:18,712 --> 00:36:21,047 Around noon, the social worker brought Charlie and Braden 778 00:36:21,047 --> 00:36:23,216 for their court-ordered visitation. 779 00:36:23,249 --> 00:36:24,351 Josh grabbed the boys, 780 00:36:24,384 --> 00:36:26,786 pulled them inside, locked her out. 781 00:36:26,820 --> 00:36:29,556 At 12:08, she made her first call to 9-1-1. 782 00:36:45,071 --> 00:36:46,740 And the operator kept her on the line, 783 00:36:46,773 --> 00:36:49,509 answering questions for nearly seven minutes. 784 00:37:09,062 --> 00:37:10,697 And finally... 785 00:37:30,116 --> 00:37:33,453 Deputies were alerted by dispatch at 12:16 PM. 786 00:37:33,486 --> 00:37:36,890 It was flagged as "a routine call." 787 00:37:36,923 --> 00:37:38,091 And at that moment, 788 00:37:38,124 --> 00:37:40,160 9-1-1 lit up with multiple reports 789 00:37:40,193 --> 00:37:41,728 of an explosion and fire. 790 00:37:53,973 --> 00:37:56,176 The social worker who delivered the boys to Josh 791 00:37:56,209 --> 00:37:57,977 was back on the phone. 792 00:38:07,387 --> 00:38:09,022 Chuck Cox heard the news from a friend 793 00:38:09,055 --> 00:38:10,924 who'd seen it on Facebook. 794 00:38:11,024 --> 00:38:13,193 - And when I got there, there were police cars, 795 00:38:13,226 --> 00:38:17,297 fire trucks in a line, and the house was smoldering. 796 00:38:17,330 --> 00:38:19,099 And I still didn't believe it. 797 00:38:19,132 --> 00:38:22,302 - And with the horror and disbelief came questions. 798 00:38:22,335 --> 00:38:23,903 Could this have been foreseen? 799 00:38:23,937 --> 00:38:27,374 Could Josh's evil plan somehow have been derailed? 800 00:38:27,407 --> 00:38:29,576 - I feel strongly that the judge did everything possible 801 00:38:29,609 --> 00:38:32,245 to protect the boys. Josh did it. 802 00:38:32,278 --> 00:38:34,748 And I truly believe that when someone's committed 803 00:38:34,781 --> 00:38:36,549 to doing something this horrific, 804 00:38:36,583 --> 00:38:39,119 there is nothing anybody can do to stop them. 805 00:38:39,152 --> 00:38:40,687 He was going to do it. 806 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:42,455 - But could the children have been rescued 807 00:38:42,489 --> 00:38:45,725 in those final moments? Is someone to blame? 808 00:38:45,759 --> 00:38:47,293 - Oh, it was-- it was horrible. 809 00:38:47,327 --> 00:38:49,696 I mean, this has been a nightmare. 810 00:38:49,729 --> 00:38:52,399 - Fingers have been pointed at this man, 811 00:38:52,432 --> 00:38:54,200 Dave Lovrak. 812 00:38:54,234 --> 00:38:55,568 He's the 9-1-1 dispatcher 813 00:38:55,602 --> 00:38:57,370 who caught the initial call that day. 814 00:38:57,404 --> 00:38:59,606 - What's the address? - Just one of thousands 815 00:38:59,639 --> 00:39:01,841 in his 18 years on the job. 816 00:39:01,875 --> 00:39:05,745 - To hear how clumsy and faltering I sounded. 817 00:39:24,431 --> 00:39:25,732 - It's almost painful, because you know 818 00:39:25,765 --> 00:39:27,634 what's gonna happen when you're listening to it, 819 00:39:27,667 --> 00:39:29,636 but at the time you didn't know what was gonna happen. 820 00:39:29,669 --> 00:39:31,304 - That's right. - But as you listen to it now, 821 00:39:31,338 --> 00:39:34,040 what does it do to you? - Oh, it's excruciating. 822 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,409 Um, it's-- it's painful to listen to. 823 00:39:39,245 --> 00:39:42,148 I was aware of Josh Powell's story, 824 00:39:42,182 --> 00:39:44,050 but I didn't associate his name, 825 00:39:44,050 --> 00:39:46,619 and so his name was not resonating with me. 826 00:39:49,456 --> 00:39:51,057 Realizing what we all know now, 827 00:39:51,091 --> 00:39:54,094 I wish I had recognized the-- the urgency of the situation. 828 00:39:54,127 --> 00:39:55,395 - You're all in a position 829 00:39:55,428 --> 00:39:57,664 which was nobody could have imagined. 830 00:39:57,697 --> 00:40:00,066 - Right, because you don't automatically 831 00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:03,336 default to the notion that the person you're dealing with 832 00:40:03,370 --> 00:40:04,704 is a psychopath. 833 00:40:04,738 --> 00:40:06,373 It's difficult when one goes south on you 834 00:40:06,406 --> 00:40:08,108 like this one did. 835 00:40:08,141 --> 00:40:12,078 The Coxes don't blame Dave Lovrak, not at all. 836 00:40:12,112 --> 00:40:14,047 And they worked hard to stay calm, 837 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,616 even after the loss of their grandsons, 838 00:40:16,649 --> 00:40:20,453 along with Josh and whatever he may have known about Susan. 839 00:40:20,487 --> 00:40:23,490 - I think he was very selfish, 840 00:40:23,523 --> 00:40:25,158 and that's why he took the kids. 841 00:40:25,191 --> 00:40:27,694 [sighing] Um, if he couldn't have 'em, 842 00:40:27,727 --> 00:40:29,396 no one could have 'em. 843 00:40:29,429 --> 00:40:33,266 - We'd appreciate it if he had left a note 844 00:40:33,299 --> 00:40:36,236 telling us where Susan was, or something, you know? 845 00:40:36,269 --> 00:40:39,372 - Maybe the point was... not to tell anyone. 846 00:40:39,406 --> 00:40:40,707 - Yeah. - Yeah. 847 00:40:40,740 --> 00:40:43,943 Oh, I'm sure he wants for us to never find her. 848 00:40:45,245 --> 00:40:47,814 - He's still mad at us. You know? 849 00:40:47,847 --> 00:40:49,582 He's mad at us because we won't give up 850 00:40:49,616 --> 00:40:52,085 on our daughter, finding our daughter. 851 00:40:52,118 --> 00:40:54,220 - Investigators have not given up either. 852 00:40:54,254 --> 00:40:56,990 They searched that storage unit of Josh's, 853 00:40:57,023 --> 00:41:00,126 and recovered a comforter among Susan's belongings. 854 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,097 Preliminary tests indicated blood stains on it, 855 00:41:04,130 --> 00:41:07,167 and Chuck Cox believes there is still one person 856 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,536 who can answer his questions. 857 00:41:09,569 --> 00:41:11,237 - His dad knows something. 858 00:41:11,271 --> 00:41:14,974 His dad had some part in this. 859 00:41:15,075 --> 00:41:16,943 - Police have named Steven Powell 860 00:41:16,976 --> 00:41:19,279 a person of interest, though he was far away 861 00:41:19,312 --> 00:41:21,581 when Susan disappeared, they have questions. 862 00:41:21,614 --> 00:41:23,383 Did he goad Josh into something? 863 00:41:23,416 --> 00:41:25,285 Did he devise or assist the cover-up? 864 00:41:25,318 --> 00:41:28,555 Did his words help cause this? 865 00:41:28,588 --> 00:41:33,193 A police source say they grilled Steven relentlessly. 866 00:41:33,226 --> 00:41:35,562 His response was silence. 867 00:41:35,595 --> 00:41:38,531 But authorities weren't done with Steven. 868 00:41:38,565 --> 00:41:43,103 In 2012, he was convicted of those voyeurism charges 869 00:41:43,103 --> 00:41:44,704 and three years later found guilty 870 00:41:44,738 --> 00:41:47,574 of possession of child pornography. 871 00:41:47,607 --> 00:41:50,543 He was paroled in 2017, 872 00:41:50,577 --> 00:41:55,015 then died of a heart attack a year later. 873 00:41:55,115 --> 00:41:57,017 And the parents of this sunny girl 874 00:41:57,117 --> 00:41:59,419 at the center of this mystery? 875 00:41:59,452 --> 00:42:02,522 There is no end to their hurt. 876 00:42:02,555 --> 00:42:05,091 And yet... - We could be mad at Josh, 877 00:42:05,125 --> 00:42:06,459 and we can be mad at Steve. 878 00:42:06,493 --> 00:42:09,062 It's not anger, it's sadness. 879 00:42:09,095 --> 00:42:10,363 But there's hope. 880 00:42:10,397 --> 00:42:13,233 We believe that they're safe in another life, 881 00:42:13,266 --> 00:42:15,235 with the heavenly father who knows what happened, 882 00:42:15,268 --> 00:42:19,105 and it will all be better, so, we have that hope. 883 00:42:19,139 --> 00:42:21,074 - Chuck and Judy Cox won a civil suit 884 00:42:21,074 --> 00:42:22,909 against the state of Washington's Department 885 00:42:22,942 --> 00:42:25,578 of Social and Health Services, claiming negligence. 886 00:42:25,612 --> 00:42:27,947 A jury awarded the estates of Charlie and Braden 887 00:42:27,981 --> 00:42:30,417 $98.5 million. 888 00:42:30,450 --> 00:42:34,087 The police in Utah halted their search for Susan, 889 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,656 and officially the case remains open. 890 00:42:39,859 --> 00:42:43,463 - That's all for this edition of "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 891 00:42:43,496 --> 00:42:45,765 I'm Craig Melvin. Thank you for watching.