1 00:00:07,374 --> 00:00:07,841 - I'm Craig Melvin, 2 00:00:08,742 --> 00:00:12,245 and this is "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 3 00:00:13,980 --> 00:00:15,882 - This really was a soap opera. 4 00:00:15,915 --> 00:00:17,350 - Unfortunately, it's my life 5 00:00:17,384 --> 00:00:19,686 and it wasn't a soap opera for me. 6 00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:22,789 - It was TV's first blockbuster trial, 7 00:00:22,822 --> 00:00:26,292 scandalous and Sensational. - Her sexuality, 8 00:00:26,326 --> 00:00:28,828 that was the star of the Pam Smart show. 9 00:00:28,862 --> 00:00:32,832 - This explosion of flashbulbs. 10 00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:35,935 - It's "Body Heat." It's "Fatal Attraction." 11 00:00:35,969 --> 00:00:39,673 - Pamela Smart, accused of bewitching a teenage student 12 00:00:39,706 --> 00:00:43,009 into murdering her husband. 13 00:00:43,043 --> 00:00:44,177 - Yes. 14 00:00:44,210 --> 00:00:48,281 - I said, "God, forgive me". I pulled the trigger. 15 00:00:48,314 --> 00:00:51,351 - Now, more than three decades later, 16 00:00:51,384 --> 00:00:54,888 another look at the frenzy. - It was just crazy. 17 00:00:54,921 --> 00:00:56,923 - The trial. - I made a mistake. 18 00:00:56,956 --> 00:00:58,558 - Was killing your husband one of those mistakes? 19 00:00:58,591 --> 00:00:59,893 - No. - The woman. 20 00:00:59,926 --> 00:01:03,063 - It's not at all who she is or was. 21 00:01:03,063 --> 00:01:06,132 - And the case, some say, changed the way 22 00:01:06,166 --> 00:01:08,435 Americans witnessed justice. 23 00:01:08,468 --> 00:01:10,236 - I don't know if enough will ever be enough 24 00:01:10,270 --> 00:01:12,172 for anyone in this case. 25 00:01:13,606 --> 00:01:19,746 ** 26 00:01:19,779 --> 00:01:23,983 - Hello and welcome to "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 27 00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:27,220 An attractive young high school employee 28 00:01:27,253 --> 00:01:29,689 became the center of a steamy murder trial 29 00:01:29,723 --> 00:01:31,725 that gripped our nation. 30 00:01:31,758 --> 00:01:35,495 Her name is Pamela Smart, and she has secrets 31 00:01:35,528 --> 00:01:37,764 she wishes the jury heard. 32 00:01:37,797 --> 00:01:41,201 Now she is ready to share them with you. 33 00:01:41,234 --> 00:01:45,572 Here's Andrea Canning with "Deadly Secret". 34 00:01:45,605 --> 00:01:47,007 - You were the biggest show in town. 35 00:01:47,107 --> 00:01:48,575 - It was. - Maybe in America. 36 00:01:48,608 --> 00:01:50,477 - At the time. - I mean, this story, 37 00:01:50,510 --> 00:01:51,945 people couldn't get enough of it. 38 00:01:51,978 --> 00:01:53,113 - Nope. 39 00:01:53,146 --> 00:01:57,250 When I look back at the footage, I look like a baby. 40 00:01:57,283 --> 00:01:59,586 You know, I look so young and I look so afraid. 41 00:01:59,619 --> 00:02:03,056 And that's exactly how I felt. 42 00:02:03,056 --> 00:02:06,326 - Before the Menendez brothers, before the Bobbitts 43 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:09,362 or Amy Fisher or even O.J., 44 00:02:09,396 --> 00:02:13,099 Pamela Smart was television's first true crime celebrity. 45 00:02:15,969 --> 00:02:19,506 - It's like I'm frozen forever in my worst mistake, 46 00:02:19,539 --> 00:02:22,442 and I'm judged forever by my worst mistake. 47 00:02:22,475 --> 00:02:25,612 And people think there's nothing else to me. 48 00:02:35,088 --> 00:02:37,257 - The story begins in the old mill town 49 00:02:37,290 --> 00:02:40,527 of Derry, New Hampshire. 50 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,164 Twenty-two-year-old Pamela Smart had come home late from work 51 00:02:44,197 --> 00:02:46,666 to find her twenty-four-year-old husband, 52 00:02:46,700 --> 00:02:49,969 Gregg, sprawled out on the floor of their home. 53 00:02:50,003 --> 00:02:52,839 - It's six days before your first anniversary. 54 00:02:52,872 --> 00:02:53,773 - Mm-hmm. 55 00:02:53,807 --> 00:02:57,143 - Take us to that-that night, that-- 56 00:02:57,177 --> 00:02:58,645 what happened when you walked in the door? 57 00:02:58,678 --> 00:03:00,914 - I saw Gregg on the ground 58 00:03:00,947 --> 00:03:03,450 in front of the entrance to the door. 59 00:03:03,483 --> 00:03:06,152 I called for him, and he didn't respond. 60 00:03:06,186 --> 00:03:07,187 There was-- 61 00:03:07,220 --> 00:03:08,588 - Did you try to shake him or... - No. 62 00:03:08,621 --> 00:03:09,756 - You're just calling his name? 63 00:03:09,789 --> 00:03:11,257 - I called his name, he didn't answer, 64 00:03:11,291 --> 00:03:13,660 and I ran-I just ran that fast. 65 00:03:13,693 --> 00:03:16,296 - You go to the neighbor and what does the neighbor do? 66 00:03:16,329 --> 00:03:17,497 Call 911? 67 00:03:17,530 --> 00:03:19,866 - I don't even remember after that. 68 00:03:36,850 --> 00:03:40,320 - Daniel Pelletier was the lead detective in the case. 69 00:03:40,353 --> 00:03:41,955 - Well, the first two officers arrived, 70 00:03:41,988 --> 00:03:43,556 found Mrs. Smart outside. 71 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:46,393 She was yelling and screaming that her husband had been hurt. 72 00:03:46,426 --> 00:03:48,962 - It wasn't until way after his-- 73 00:03:48,995 --> 00:03:51,097 the police were there, his parents were there, 74 00:03:51,097 --> 00:03:55,168 all of that, his father said, "Why aren't you helping my son?" 75 00:03:55,201 --> 00:03:57,971 And the police officer said, "Because he's dead". 76 00:03:58,004 --> 00:04:01,041 - What's that moment like? - His father hit the floor. 77 00:04:01,074 --> 00:04:03,243 I hit the floor. His mother passed out. 78 00:04:03,276 --> 00:04:05,845 It was just-- it was crazy. 79 00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:08,048 - We later determined through the medical examiner 80 00:04:08,081 --> 00:04:09,416 that it was a gunshot wound. 81 00:04:09,449 --> 00:04:12,886 The wound was actually at the top left of his skull, 82 00:04:12,919 --> 00:04:13,953 entered in through there. 83 00:04:14,054 --> 00:04:16,423 - When I got to her parent's house, 84 00:04:16,456 --> 00:04:18,625 we both sobbed. 85 00:04:18,658 --> 00:04:20,527 - Sonia Fortin-Simon was a friend 86 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,163 of Gregg and Pamela Smart's. 87 00:04:23,196 --> 00:04:26,833 - We-we laid there together in her bed. 88 00:04:26,866 --> 00:04:27,834 I was hugging her, 89 00:04:27,867 --> 00:04:30,870 because she was in a fetal position crying. 90 00:04:30,904 --> 00:04:33,840 She was inconsolable, just trying to figure out 91 00:04:33,873 --> 00:04:35,175 who could have done this. 92 00:04:35,208 --> 00:04:36,943 - It was apparent that two people were involved 93 00:04:36,976 --> 00:04:38,878 because of the way that things were set up 94 00:04:38,912 --> 00:04:41,281 and the amount of things that were disturbed. 95 00:04:41,314 --> 00:04:44,117 The, uh, stereo had been removed from the stereo rack 96 00:04:44,150 --> 00:04:45,285 and it was pulled out. 97 00:04:45,318 --> 00:04:47,554 There were speakers piled up by the rear door 98 00:04:47,587 --> 00:04:49,622 where it looked like they had exited. 99 00:04:49,656 --> 00:04:52,258 There was, um, jewelry boxes overturned. 100 00:04:52,292 --> 00:04:53,927 - You know, it looked like a burglary gone bad. 101 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,095 That's kind of what we were hearing. 102 00:04:55,095 --> 00:04:55,995 That's kind of what we're seeing. 103 00:04:56,096 --> 00:04:58,264 The police weren't saying anything. 104 00:04:58,298 --> 00:04:59,699 - Tami Plyler was a reporter 105 00:04:59,733 --> 00:05:02,168 for the "New Hampshire Union Leader". 106 00:05:02,202 --> 00:05:04,571 - We had heard at one point that they were looking for someone 107 00:05:04,604 --> 00:05:06,940 who might have traded in some jewelry; 108 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,744 we had picked it up on the police scanner. 109 00:05:10,777 --> 00:05:14,381 - But the burglary gone bad theory had some problems. 110 00:05:14,414 --> 00:05:16,249 - That didn't really make a lot of sense 111 00:05:16,282 --> 00:05:17,717 because the time of day 112 00:05:17,751 --> 00:05:20,487 and nighttime burglary in a neighborhood like that, 113 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,455 there were a lot of residents there. 114 00:05:22,489 --> 00:05:25,125 - It was looking like an execution. 115 00:05:25,158 --> 00:05:27,627 Maybe there was more to the story. 116 00:05:27,660 --> 00:05:29,062 - Police always look at the spouse. 117 00:05:29,062 --> 00:05:30,296 - Mm-hmm. 118 00:05:30,330 --> 00:05:31,631 - They just have to talk to them. 119 00:05:31,664 --> 00:05:32,565 - Right. 120 00:05:32,599 --> 00:05:33,933 - Did they interview you? - They did. 121 00:05:33,967 --> 00:05:35,969 I spent hours with the police. 122 00:05:36,069 --> 00:05:38,438 I spent hours at the police station 123 00:05:38,471 --> 00:05:39,906 in the days after that. 124 00:05:39,939 --> 00:05:41,708 - Did you feel like you were a suspect? 125 00:05:41,741 --> 00:05:43,076 - Not at all. 126 00:05:43,076 --> 00:05:43,743 - Did you feel like they were suspicious of you in any way? 127 00:05:43,777 --> 00:05:46,379 - Not at all. 128 00:05:46,413 --> 00:05:49,349 - Gregg Smart's short life was over. 129 00:05:49,382 --> 00:05:53,119 Now, as police tried to find out who killed him, 130 00:05:53,153 --> 00:05:54,487 life for his young widow 131 00:05:54,521 --> 00:05:57,857 was about to enter a strange new reality. 132 00:05:57,891 --> 00:06:00,260 And what happened next would raise questions 133 00:06:00,293 --> 00:06:05,098 about justice and fairness that are still being asked today. 134 00:06:06,099 --> 00:06:09,436 - Coming up, students with a deadly secret 135 00:06:09,469 --> 00:06:11,304 about to be revealed. 136 00:06:11,338 --> 00:06:14,307 - If they hadn't told people, 137 00:06:14,341 --> 00:06:16,042 I'm not sure how this would have turned out. 138 00:06:16,076 --> 00:06:19,312 - And one of those students had an intimate connection 139 00:06:19,346 --> 00:06:20,747 to Pamela Smart. 140 00:06:20,780 --> 00:06:23,116 - Somebody came and told me that he had a crush on me 141 00:06:23,149 --> 00:06:24,184 or something. 142 00:06:24,217 --> 00:06:26,052 I thought it was cute, but I wasn't interested. 143 00:06:26,052 --> 00:06:28,621 - You're the grown up here. - Right, I was sure it was. 144 00:06:28,655 --> 00:06:29,856 And I kept... - You're working for the school. 145 00:06:29,889 --> 00:06:31,758 - I was not even thinking about him 146 00:06:31,791 --> 00:06:34,294 in any romantic way whatsoever. 147 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:47,774 ** 148 00:06:48,808 --> 00:06:51,478 - A well-liked young man had been gunned down at home 149 00:06:51,511 --> 00:06:53,179 in a quiet New England town. 150 00:06:53,213 --> 00:06:54,981 Bill Spencer, who went on to report for 151 00:06:55,081 --> 00:06:57,684 NBC affiliate KPRC in Houston, 152 00:06:57,717 --> 00:06:59,352 was just starting out in New Hampshire 153 00:06:59,386 --> 00:07:02,789 when he picked up the story of who killed Gregg Smart. 154 00:07:02,822 --> 00:07:04,357 - He has his whole life ahead of him. 155 00:07:04,391 --> 00:07:06,793 He's a successful life insurance salesman, 156 00:07:06,826 --> 00:07:09,462 he's got a beautiful young wife, and he has been, 157 00:07:09,496 --> 00:07:14,434 for some reason, shot to death at the doorstep of his own home. 158 00:07:14,467 --> 00:07:15,669 Why? 159 00:07:15,702 --> 00:07:18,038 - Police were asking the same question 160 00:07:18,038 --> 00:07:20,473 and trying to learn more about Gregg. 161 00:07:20,507 --> 00:07:22,175 Sonia knew him well. 162 00:07:22,208 --> 00:07:24,044 - Gregg was the life of the party. 163 00:07:24,077 --> 00:07:29,816 He was always big dimples, smiling, having all the jokes, 164 00:07:29,849 --> 00:07:33,219 and acting a little crazy. 165 00:07:33,253 --> 00:07:34,954 - Police learned that Gregg met Pamela 166 00:07:35,055 --> 00:07:37,057 in New Hampshire about four years earlier 167 00:07:37,090 --> 00:07:40,060 when she was home for a holiday break from college. 168 00:07:40,093 --> 00:07:41,828 She and Gregg got along so well 169 00:07:41,861 --> 00:07:44,097 that he moved with her to Tallahassee, 170 00:07:44,130 --> 00:07:46,499 where Pamela was a sophomore in communications 171 00:07:46,533 --> 00:07:47,901 at Florida State. 172 00:07:47,934 --> 00:07:49,502 - He followed you there? - Yeah. 173 00:07:49,536 --> 00:07:54,741 And we used to go a lot to the beach and travel, 174 00:07:54,774 --> 00:07:55,909 we went to concerts a lot. 175 00:07:55,942 --> 00:07:58,211 I was working as a disc jockey at the time. 176 00:07:58,244 --> 00:07:59,779 - She had been in a couple of my classes 177 00:07:59,813 --> 00:08:05,118 and she was walking, um, and had a Bon Jovi t-shirt on. 178 00:08:05,151 --> 00:08:08,221 - That's when Amy Newman Bonczek met Pamela and Gregg. 179 00:08:08,254 --> 00:08:09,556 - And what did you say to her? 180 00:08:09,589 --> 00:08:11,558 - And I said, "Do you like Bon Jovi?" 181 00:08:11,591 --> 00:08:13,426 And she's like, "I love Bon Jovi". 182 00:08:13,460 --> 00:08:16,029 She's like, "My boyfriend looks like Bon Jovi". 183 00:08:16,062 --> 00:08:17,731 - Gregg wasn't taking classes, 184 00:08:17,764 --> 00:08:20,033 but Pamela was a serious student. 185 00:08:20,066 --> 00:08:22,335 - I was having some problems in a few classes, 186 00:08:22,369 --> 00:08:25,438 and she would take me to the library. 187 00:08:25,472 --> 00:08:29,209 She'd have index cards, she'd have everything prepared, 188 00:08:29,242 --> 00:08:30,710 and she taught me how to study. 189 00:08:30,744 --> 00:08:34,647 - How was Pamela around Gregg? What did he bring out of her? 190 00:08:34,681 --> 00:08:37,917 - Even though he was shy, she was also, you know, 191 00:08:37,951 --> 00:08:43,690 they were just very sweet and kind of cozy. 192 00:08:43,723 --> 00:08:45,825 - By the time graduation rolled around, 193 00:08:45,859 --> 00:08:48,261 Pamela and Gregg were engaged. 194 00:08:48,294 --> 00:08:51,064 They went home to New Hampshire, got married. 195 00:08:51,097 --> 00:08:53,566 Gregg cut his hair and got a job with his dad 196 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,368 selling insurance. 197 00:08:55,402 --> 00:08:58,204 Pamela, who dreamed of being a TV reporter, 198 00:08:58,238 --> 00:09:01,608 got a media job with a local school district. 199 00:09:01,641 --> 00:09:03,276 - You kind of had it all together at twenty, 200 00:09:03,309 --> 00:09:05,679 twenty-one years old? - Yeah, I was trying. 201 00:09:05,712 --> 00:09:08,248 I thought I was doing all right. 202 00:09:08,281 --> 00:09:11,051 - Amy imagined a big future for Pamela. 203 00:09:11,084 --> 00:09:14,020 - I knew that she was gonna do great things. 204 00:09:14,054 --> 00:09:17,023 And I told her that the next time I saw her, 205 00:09:17,023 --> 00:09:20,660 I knew she was gonna be famous and I would see her on TV. 206 00:09:20,694 --> 00:09:23,763 - And in fact, a few days after the murder, 207 00:09:23,797 --> 00:09:26,399 Pamela Smart was on TV 208 00:09:26,433 --> 00:09:29,269 being interviewed by reporter Bill Spencer. 209 00:09:29,302 --> 00:09:33,740 - She was wearing a beautiful, vibrant blue dress, 210 00:09:33,773 --> 00:09:36,643 hair was all made up, makeup perfect. 211 00:09:36,676 --> 00:09:38,278 She looked gorgeous. 212 00:09:38,311 --> 00:09:41,881 - Police watched Pamela on television with unease. 213 00:09:41,915 --> 00:09:45,819 - We had limited the information that was going to Pamela Smart 214 00:09:45,852 --> 00:09:49,155 because she had the propensity to talk to the media. 215 00:09:49,189 --> 00:09:51,524 She enjoyed talking to the media. 216 00:09:51,558 --> 00:09:53,226 - While reporters worked the story, 217 00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:55,695 police continued working the case. 218 00:09:55,729 --> 00:09:57,964 And then came a break. 219 00:09:58,064 --> 00:10:00,667 It happened at a high school where Pamela worked. 220 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:03,703 Kids there were spreading a wild story. 221 00:10:03,737 --> 00:10:06,840 - If they hadn't told people, 222 00:10:06,873 --> 00:10:08,575 I'm not sure how this would have turned out, 223 00:10:08,608 --> 00:10:11,511 because I don't think the police had that much. 224 00:10:11,544 --> 00:10:13,179 - Some teenage boys at the school 225 00:10:13,213 --> 00:10:16,583 were telling people they killed Gregg Smart 226 00:10:16,616 --> 00:10:19,686 and used one of their father's guns to do it. 227 00:10:19,719 --> 00:10:22,255 A neighborhood kid heard them talking. 228 00:10:22,288 --> 00:10:24,891 He repeated the story to the father, 229 00:10:24,924 --> 00:10:29,362 who located his gun and then made a tough decision. 230 00:10:29,396 --> 00:10:31,698 - Ended up bringing it to the Derry Police Department, 231 00:10:31,731 --> 00:10:34,134 saying, "This may have been involved in a murder". 232 00:10:34,167 --> 00:10:39,005 Turned out it was the gun that killed Gregg. 233 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:41,708 - Shortly after that, three local high schoolers 234 00:10:41,741 --> 00:10:44,344 were arrested for Gregg's murder. 235 00:10:44,377 --> 00:10:48,114 Bill Spencer made a beeline for Pamela Smart's house. 236 00:10:48,148 --> 00:10:54,020 - She looks frantic and, um, incredibly emotional. 237 00:10:54,054 --> 00:10:57,090 And I'm like, "But-but-but this is great news. 238 00:10:57,123 --> 00:10:58,758 I mean, they just made the arrests. 239 00:10:58,792 --> 00:11:00,760 I mean, the case is wrapping up." 240 00:11:00,794 --> 00:11:02,796 And she's like, no, I-I can't talk, Bill. 241 00:11:02,829 --> 00:11:06,366 I'm just too upset. I'm too devastated. 242 00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:09,069 - It was the first time he'd seen her like that. 243 00:11:09,069 --> 00:11:10,670 It didn't make sense. 244 00:11:10,704 --> 00:11:15,141 But turns out, Pamela Smart knew the kids under arrest. 245 00:11:15,175 --> 00:11:18,078 She had an intimate connection with one of them. 246 00:11:18,111 --> 00:11:20,447 His name was Billy Flynn. 247 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,083 - At first, somebody came and told me that he had-- 248 00:11:23,083 --> 00:11:25,452 he was a-- had a crush on me or something. 249 00:11:25,485 --> 00:11:27,620 I thought it was cute, but I wasn't interested. 250 00:11:27,654 --> 00:11:28,555 - You're the grown up here. 251 00:11:28,588 --> 00:11:30,657 - Right, I sure was. And I kept-- 252 00:11:30,690 --> 00:11:31,624 - You're working for the school. 253 00:11:31,658 --> 00:11:33,460 - I was not even thinking about him 254 00:11:33,493 --> 00:11:36,596 in any romantic way whatsoever. 255 00:11:36,629 --> 00:11:38,732 - They had worked together on a school program 256 00:11:38,765 --> 00:11:41,167 called Project Self-esteem, 257 00:11:41,201 --> 00:11:42,602 when she was helping some students 258 00:11:42,635 --> 00:11:45,572 produce this goofy orange juice commercial 259 00:11:45,605 --> 00:11:48,208 as part of a competition. 260 00:11:48,241 --> 00:11:51,444 There's Pamela on the left, and that's Billy. 261 00:11:51,478 --> 00:11:53,980 - And then where does it go from there? 262 00:11:54,014 --> 00:11:55,782 - Well, I didn't think it was going anywhere, 263 00:11:55,815 --> 00:11:58,585 'cause I was not interested and I didn't care. 264 00:11:58,618 --> 00:12:02,055 Looking back, I guess I was flattered by his attention 265 00:12:02,088 --> 00:12:04,691 because I felt like at that point in my life, 266 00:12:04,724 --> 00:12:09,629 kind of low still after what had happened with Gregg. 267 00:12:09,662 --> 00:12:11,765 - She says Gregg had had a one night stand 268 00:12:11,798 --> 00:12:14,067 with a woman he met in a bar. 269 00:12:14,067 --> 00:12:16,136 Pamela says she was feeling wounded 270 00:12:16,169 --> 00:12:18,271 and Billy made her feel better. 271 00:12:18,304 --> 00:12:20,540 Apparently much better. 272 00:12:20,573 --> 00:12:23,109 - How did things cross the line? 273 00:12:23,143 --> 00:12:26,646 How did it get to that point? - I knew it was wrong. 274 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:29,916 I felt like I didn't wanna be attracted to him, 275 00:12:29,949 --> 00:12:32,852 but I still felt like I was. 276 00:12:32,886 --> 00:12:35,488 - She said the affair lasted a few months, 277 00:12:35,522 --> 00:12:37,657 but then she told Billy it was over 278 00:12:37,691 --> 00:12:40,093 after confessing it all to Gregg. 279 00:12:40,126 --> 00:12:41,528 - You were going to try and make it work? 280 00:12:41,561 --> 00:12:42,696 - Yes. 281 00:12:42,729 --> 00:12:44,264 - How was Billy Flynn acting throughout all this? 282 00:12:44,297 --> 00:12:48,668 - Um, he was angry. He was sad. 283 00:12:48,702 --> 00:12:49,936 He was crying. 284 00:12:49,969 --> 00:12:52,305 He was-- you know, and I felt-- I did feel bad. 285 00:12:52,339 --> 00:12:55,775 Like, I-I didn't intend to hurt his feelings. 286 00:12:55,809 --> 00:12:58,912 - Not long after that, her husband was dead, 287 00:12:58,945 --> 00:13:01,247 and the teenage student she'd been sleeping with 288 00:13:01,281 --> 00:13:03,049 was under arrest. 289 00:13:03,049 --> 00:13:04,651 - It was a complete shock. 290 00:13:04,684 --> 00:13:07,787 And then when I- when I first heard it, 291 00:13:07,821 --> 00:13:11,057 I thought, "Oh, my God, they found out about the affair. 292 00:13:11,091 --> 00:13:17,530 And now I'm somehow part of this one way or another, 293 00:13:17,564 --> 00:13:20,066 because I had this relationship with him." 294 00:13:20,066 --> 00:13:22,736 - The kids under arrest may have been young, 295 00:13:22,769 --> 00:13:26,406 but they were also tough, they weren't talking. 296 00:13:26,439 --> 00:13:29,275 But police were tougher, and figured that 297 00:13:29,309 --> 00:13:33,313 getting the teens to talk was just a matter of time. 298 00:13:35,315 --> 00:13:36,716 - Coming up... 299 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:39,519 - It's "Body Heat." It's "Fatal Attraction." 300 00:13:39,552 --> 00:13:43,390 It's what pours millions into the theater every weekend. 301 00:13:43,423 --> 00:13:45,191 And it's right here in New Hampshire. 302 00:13:45,225 --> 00:13:46,760 - The drama builds 303 00:13:46,793 --> 00:13:51,164 as the student who shares Pamela Smart's secret does talk. 304 00:13:51,197 --> 00:13:53,333 - What was his version of events to you? 305 00:13:53,366 --> 00:13:56,302 - Pam had said to him that they could never be together 306 00:13:56,336 --> 00:13:57,604 unless Gregg was killed. 307 00:13:57,637 --> 00:13:59,139 - I didn't realize the scope of this thing 308 00:13:59,172 --> 00:14:01,608 until the sex part came out. 309 00:14:08,515 --> 00:14:14,954 ** 310 00:14:16,056 --> 00:14:18,758 - In the days after the murder, Pamela Smart spent 311 00:14:18,792 --> 00:14:20,660 a lot of time with police 312 00:14:20,694 --> 00:14:22,429 talking about her life with Gregg 313 00:14:22,462 --> 00:14:24,898 and what happened the night he was killed. 314 00:14:24,931 --> 00:14:28,068 But she had left out one important detail... 315 00:14:28,068 --> 00:14:30,470 - If you're being interviewed for hours, though, 316 00:14:30,503 --> 00:14:32,439 one might think it's relevant to say, 317 00:14:32,472 --> 00:14:36,443 "I was having an affair". That's a possible suspect. 318 00:14:36,476 --> 00:14:38,411 - Looking backwards, I should have said that. 319 00:14:38,445 --> 00:14:40,313 But I did not think that I knew someone 320 00:14:40,347 --> 00:14:41,948 that was capable of murder. 321 00:14:41,981 --> 00:14:44,217 It wasn't even in my brain t-that 322 00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:47,620 he had possibly killed my husband. 323 00:14:47,654 --> 00:14:50,090 - But even after teenager Billy Flynn 324 00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:52,158 and two of his friends were arrested, 325 00:14:52,192 --> 00:14:55,695 she still didn't say anything about the affair. 326 00:14:55,729 --> 00:14:57,263 - It was bad enough that my husband was dead, 327 00:14:57,297 --> 00:14:59,265 and I was trying to go through all of this. 328 00:14:59,299 --> 00:15:02,202 And then I had Gregg's parents calling me up, saying, 329 00:15:02,235 --> 00:15:06,606 "Well, how come these people that you know killed my son?" 330 00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:08,842 - The teenagers kept silent for months, 331 00:15:08,875 --> 00:15:12,679 but then the prosecution moved to try them as adults, 332 00:15:12,712 --> 00:15:14,614 and the stakes got higher, 333 00:15:14,647 --> 00:15:17,817 according to lead prosecutor Paul Maggiotto. 334 00:15:17,851 --> 00:15:20,253 - That's when they were facing life without parole, 335 00:15:20,286 --> 00:15:22,222 and the idea of cooperating 336 00:15:22,255 --> 00:15:25,658 became all the more relevant to them. 337 00:15:25,692 --> 00:15:29,295 - That's when they admitted they killed Gregg Smart. 338 00:15:29,329 --> 00:15:31,131 But there was more to it. 339 00:15:31,164 --> 00:15:33,233 Billy said Pamela was involved. 340 00:15:33,266 --> 00:15:37,570 In fact, the teen said she was the mastermind. 341 00:15:37,604 --> 00:15:40,373 - What was his version of events to you? 342 00:15:40,407 --> 00:15:42,475 - Well, basically that Pam had said to him 343 00:15:42,509 --> 00:15:44,177 that they could never be together 344 00:15:44,210 --> 00:15:46,146 unless Gregg was killed. 345 00:15:46,179 --> 00:15:50,216 - Police heard a story of seduction and manipulation, 346 00:15:50,250 --> 00:15:53,820 that Billy had become spellbound by the sensuous 347 00:15:53,853 --> 00:15:56,356 and more experienced Pamela Smart. 348 00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:58,425 He would do anything for her. 349 00:15:58,458 --> 00:16:00,193 Even kill. 350 00:16:00,226 --> 00:16:03,663 - And the original plan was for him to try 351 00:16:03,697 --> 00:16:08,168 and find someone to kill Gregg Smart. 352 00:16:08,201 --> 00:16:11,438 And they really couldn't find anybody to kill him, you know? 353 00:16:11,471 --> 00:16:14,374 So eventually, Pam started putting pressure on Billy 354 00:16:14,407 --> 00:16:16,810 and said, "you got to kill Gregg Smart, 355 00:16:16,843 --> 00:16:18,778 and this is how you can do it". 356 00:16:18,812 --> 00:16:22,482 - Maggiotto says Billy tried and failed a few times 357 00:16:22,515 --> 00:16:23,616 to kill Gregg 358 00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:26,052 and then asked his friends for help. 359 00:16:26,086 --> 00:16:27,187 - And for the life of me, I'm not sure 360 00:16:27,220 --> 00:16:28,588 why they agree to help him. 361 00:16:28,621 --> 00:16:29,589 And they agree to help him 362 00:16:29,622 --> 00:16:32,325 in part because Pam says to them, 363 00:16:32,359 --> 00:16:35,061 "you can have whatever you want out of the apartment". 364 00:16:35,061 --> 00:16:38,298 And Billy tells them, "she'll give you $1,000 each", 365 00:16:38,331 --> 00:16:41,935 um, which Pam reneges on with Billy later 366 00:16:41,968 --> 00:16:44,270 and says, "I'll give 'em $500 each". 367 00:16:44,304 --> 00:16:47,173 - They said Pamela told them when Gregg would be home, 368 00:16:47,207 --> 00:16:49,542 and she made arrangements to be gone. 369 00:16:49,576 --> 00:16:53,880 They ransacked the house, Billy shot Gregg, 370 00:16:53,913 --> 00:16:55,648 and they all fled. 371 00:16:55,682 --> 00:16:58,551 Exactly three months after the killing, 372 00:16:58,585 --> 00:17:00,487 police had what they needed. 373 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,023 They drove to Pamela's workplace. 374 00:17:03,023 --> 00:17:05,158 - She said, "hello", and I said, "hello", 375 00:17:05,191 --> 00:17:06,593 and I-- she said, "what's up?" 376 00:17:06,626 --> 00:17:08,328 And I told her, "well, we have good news 377 00:17:08,361 --> 00:17:09,596 "and we have bad news. 378 00:17:09,629 --> 00:17:11,297 "The good news is we solved the murder of your husband. 379 00:17:11,331 --> 00:17:14,034 "The bad news is you're under arrest for murder. 380 00:17:14,067 --> 00:17:16,136 Stand up, turn around, and put your hands behind your back." 381 00:17:19,205 --> 00:17:23,076 - And she's being led by the police into court, 382 00:17:23,109 --> 00:17:27,681 and she looks so, to me, um, powerless, 383 00:17:27,714 --> 00:17:30,583 so helpless, vulnerable. 384 00:17:30,617 --> 00:17:32,952 - The news morphed in a nanosecond 385 00:17:33,053 --> 00:17:38,324 from the story of a tragic widow to the story of a black widow. 386 00:17:38,358 --> 00:17:41,394 She was 22 and he was 16. 387 00:17:41,428 --> 00:17:43,530 - Up until then, it was a murder case, 388 00:17:43,563 --> 00:17:46,166 and it had a lot of interesting parts to it. 389 00:17:46,199 --> 00:17:49,269 But, um, I didn't realize the scope of this thing 390 00:17:49,302 --> 00:17:51,538 until the sex part came out 391 00:17:51,571 --> 00:17:54,207 between Billy Flynn and Pamela Smart 392 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,744 and all the sexual manipulation. 393 00:17:57,777 --> 00:18:00,046 - People looked back at her early interviews 394 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,681 and picked her apart. 395 00:18:01,715 --> 00:18:03,783 Her looks, her clothes. 396 00:18:03,817 --> 00:18:05,885 Was she enjoying the attention? 397 00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:08,888 - This is a real live soap opera. 398 00:18:08,922 --> 00:18:12,158 - NBC News did a story about covering the story 399 00:18:12,192 --> 00:18:16,763 with Bill Spencer's boss, then the news director of WMUR. 400 00:18:16,796 --> 00:18:18,298 - It's "Body Heat." 401 00:18:18,331 --> 00:18:19,866 It's "Fatal Attraction." 402 00:18:19,899 --> 00:18:23,169 It's what pours millions into the theater every weekend. 403 00:18:23,203 --> 00:18:25,705 And it's right here in New Hampshire. 404 00:18:25,739 --> 00:18:27,674 - The tabloids loved it, 405 00:18:27,707 --> 00:18:31,111 especially when these pictures surfaced. 406 00:18:31,144 --> 00:18:34,314 Pamela Smart posing in a bikini. 407 00:18:34,347 --> 00:18:37,484 She gave those pictures to young, innocent Billy Flynn, 408 00:18:37,517 --> 00:18:39,052 the story went. 409 00:18:39,085 --> 00:18:41,955 Supposedly all part of her seduction. 410 00:18:42,055 --> 00:18:45,425 The story moved like wildfire around the country. 411 00:18:45,458 --> 00:18:48,595 - I went in a gas station, I saw "Star" magazine, 412 00:18:48,628 --> 00:18:51,097 and there was their wedding picture, 413 00:18:51,131 --> 00:18:53,900 and it called her the Ice Princess 414 00:18:53,933 --> 00:18:58,071 and that she had murdered Gregg. 415 00:18:58,071 --> 00:19:02,809 I just couldn't believe it, and bawled my eyes out. 416 00:19:02,842 --> 00:19:05,078 There was no way this was her. 417 00:19:05,111 --> 00:19:08,515 - When the media was talking about Pam, 418 00:19:08,548 --> 00:19:11,017 I couldn't recognize who they were talking about 419 00:19:11,051 --> 00:19:13,386 because it's not the person that I know. 420 00:19:13,420 --> 00:19:16,556 - The families and friends of Pamela and Gregg Smart 421 00:19:16,589 --> 00:19:19,125 were about to face a media onslaught, 422 00:19:19,159 --> 00:19:21,361 and Pamela was about to become 423 00:19:21,394 --> 00:19:25,098 part of a new kind of television phenomenon. 424 00:19:28,268 --> 00:19:30,370 - She told me she was gonna dance for me like that. 425 00:19:30,403 --> 00:19:35,141 - What did "like that" mean, do you know? 426 00:19:35,175 --> 00:19:37,811 - Like, provocative. 427 00:19:37,844 --> 00:19:39,646 Like a striptease type of thing. 428 00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:41,915 - Red hot testimony. 429 00:19:41,948 --> 00:19:44,617 - What happened after that? - We had sex. 430 00:19:44,651 --> 00:19:46,953 - By that you mean intercourse? - Yeah, we made love. 431 00:19:47,053 --> 00:19:48,588 - Cold-blooded murder. 432 00:19:48,621 --> 00:19:52,058 - I said, "God, forgive me". 433 00:19:52,058 --> 00:19:54,060 - After you said, "God, forgive me," 434 00:19:54,060 --> 00:19:56,196 what happened? 435 00:19:56,229 --> 00:19:59,432 - I pulled the trigger. 436 00:20:06,339 --> 00:20:10,510 ** 437 00:20:11,511 --> 00:20:14,247 - Welcome back to "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 438 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,582 I'm Craig Melvin. 439 00:20:15,615 --> 00:20:19,319 Newlywed Pamela Smart received widespread sympathy 440 00:20:19,352 --> 00:20:20,787 after her husband was killed. 441 00:20:20,820 --> 00:20:23,690 But in a stunning twist, 442 00:20:23,723 --> 00:20:26,159 police arrested her for murder. 443 00:20:26,192 --> 00:20:28,962 Now, all eyes were on a New Hampshire courtroom 444 00:20:28,995 --> 00:20:33,733 where Pamela's teenage admirer was about to reveal his secrets, 445 00:20:33,767 --> 00:20:38,071 taking jurors inside their doomed love affair. 446 00:20:38,104 --> 00:20:39,873 Will they believe him? 447 00:20:39,906 --> 00:20:44,210 Back to Andrea Canning with "Deadly Secret". 448 00:20:44,244 --> 00:20:47,714 - It was the first week of March 1991, 449 00:20:47,747 --> 00:20:50,450 ten months after Gregg Smart was killed 450 00:20:50,483 --> 00:20:54,020 and Pamela Smart was on trial for his murder. 451 00:20:54,054 --> 00:20:56,956 Reporters from around the world swarmed the courthouse 452 00:20:56,990 --> 00:20:59,159 to cover the salacious story. 453 00:20:59,192 --> 00:21:02,228 The woman accused of seducing a teenage boy 454 00:21:02,262 --> 00:21:04,064 and convincing him and his friends 455 00:21:04,064 --> 00:21:05,565 to kill her husband. 456 00:21:05,598 --> 00:21:10,303 - All I can remember hearing is this explosion of flashbulbs 457 00:21:10,337 --> 00:21:14,407 going off like... [imitating popping] 458 00:21:14,441 --> 00:21:17,344 As she's being led into the courtroom. 459 00:21:17,377 --> 00:21:19,612 - What kind of impact did it have on the trial, 460 00:21:19,646 --> 00:21:20,780 all that attention? 461 00:21:20,814 --> 00:21:21,848 - I mean, certainly I think 462 00:21:21,881 --> 00:21:24,084 the court had to take certain precautions 463 00:21:24,084 --> 00:21:26,853 to make sure things didn't get out of hand. 464 00:21:26,886 --> 00:21:29,089 - Pamela's defense attorney, Mark Sisti, 465 00:21:29,089 --> 00:21:32,192 says things had already gotten out of hand. 466 00:21:32,225 --> 00:21:36,229 - I felt as though the jury was in shark-infested waters, 467 00:21:36,262 --> 00:21:39,099 they hadn't been sequestered. 468 00:21:39,099 --> 00:21:42,202 Camera crews at that point were running wild. 469 00:21:42,235 --> 00:21:46,373 We had our own client chased into the women's lavatory. 470 00:21:46,406 --> 00:21:47,907 - That was the backdrop 471 00:21:47,941 --> 00:21:50,610 as the state of New Hampshire laid out its case. 472 00:21:50,643 --> 00:21:52,212 - ...and fired one fatal shot 473 00:21:52,245 --> 00:21:54,214 into the head of Greggory Smart. 474 00:21:54,247 --> 00:21:57,017 Prosecutors contended in their opening arguments 475 00:21:57,117 --> 00:22:00,520 that Pamela Smart was a calculating temptress, 476 00:22:00,553 --> 00:22:02,889 a woman who lured young Billy Flynn 477 00:22:02,922 --> 00:22:04,958 with promises of sex and money. 478 00:22:05,058 --> 00:22:07,427 - Yeah, that's the gun I got out of the drawer. 479 00:22:07,460 --> 00:22:11,164 - One by one, the teens who had already pleaded guilty 480 00:22:11,197 --> 00:22:14,067 to second degree murder, took the stand. 481 00:22:14,067 --> 00:22:17,671 - In homes, bars, diners, and barbershops, 482 00:22:17,704 --> 00:22:21,408 the people watched as they described an awful crime. 483 00:22:21,441 --> 00:22:25,245 One admitted driving the others to murder Gregg Smart. 484 00:22:25,278 --> 00:22:26,413 As he told it, 485 00:22:26,446 --> 00:22:29,949 the motive was money for him and for Pamela. 486 00:22:29,983 --> 00:22:31,184 He said Pam told them 487 00:22:31,217 --> 00:22:33,219 there would be a big life insurance payout 488 00:22:33,253 --> 00:22:34,788 after Gregg was killed 489 00:22:34,821 --> 00:22:36,356 and they would get some of the money. 490 00:22:43,563 --> 00:22:44,798 - The driver told the jury 491 00:22:44,831 --> 00:22:48,101 how Pamela Smart issued detailed instructions, 492 00:22:48,101 --> 00:22:50,704 including no stabbing. 493 00:23:05,785 --> 00:23:06,953 - But one of the teens 494 00:23:07,053 --> 00:23:09,456 found a butcher knife in Pamela's kitchen 495 00:23:09,489 --> 00:23:12,926 and held it to Gregg's throat as he attempted to rob him. 496 00:23:34,714 --> 00:23:38,151 - At the center of this R-rated courtroom drama 497 00:23:38,184 --> 00:23:41,521 was the lovestruck teenage killer, Billy Flynn. 498 00:23:41,554 --> 00:23:44,557 He took the stand on his 17th birthday 499 00:23:44,591 --> 00:23:47,093 and testified about how he and Pamela Smart 500 00:23:47,127 --> 00:23:48,862 became intimate. 501 00:23:48,895 --> 00:23:50,130 Flynn testified that 502 00:23:50,163 --> 00:23:52,632 while Pamela's husband was away on a ski trip, 503 00:23:52,665 --> 00:23:55,001 she invited him into her bedroom. 504 00:23:55,101 --> 00:23:56,403 And then... 505 00:23:56,436 --> 00:23:58,571 - She told me she was gonna dance for me like that. 506 00:23:58,605 --> 00:24:02,642 - What did "like that" mean, do you know? 507 00:24:02,676 --> 00:24:05,779 - Like, provocative. 508 00:24:05,812 --> 00:24:07,714 Like a striptease type of thing. 509 00:24:07,747 --> 00:24:10,083 - What happened after that? - We had sex. 510 00:24:10,116 --> 00:24:13,153 - By that you mean intercourse? - Yeah, we made love. 511 00:24:13,186 --> 00:24:16,723 - On the stand, Billy went on to say that the next morning, 512 00:24:16,756 --> 00:24:20,894 Pamela Smart began a different kind of seduction. 513 00:24:20,927 --> 00:24:25,899 - She started crying, and that got me upset. 514 00:24:25,932 --> 00:24:27,901 And she was saying that 515 00:24:27,934 --> 00:24:29,769 the only way that we're gonna be able to be together 516 00:24:29,803 --> 00:24:35,542 is if, um, you know, if we kill Gregg. 517 00:24:35,575 --> 00:24:39,379 "If you love me, do this, 'cause you'd wanna be with me." 518 00:24:39,412 --> 00:24:41,348 Like that. 519 00:24:41,381 --> 00:24:43,550 - Then what did you say to her as she was saying this to you? 520 00:24:43,583 --> 00:24:44,951 - I told her I did love her. 521 00:24:44,984 --> 00:24:46,553 You know, I loved her very much. 522 00:24:46,586 --> 00:24:49,856 - Billy testified that the murder plot was planned 523 00:24:49,889 --> 00:24:52,092 over the course of at least two months. 524 00:24:52,125 --> 00:24:54,427 You could hear a pin drop in court 525 00:24:54,461 --> 00:24:57,163 when the tearful, doe-eyed high school student 526 00:24:57,197 --> 00:24:59,766 described the killing. 527 00:24:59,799 --> 00:25:01,835 - I cocked the hammer back 528 00:25:01,868 --> 00:25:06,473 and, um, I pointed the gun at his head. 529 00:25:06,506 --> 00:25:09,542 - After you pointed the gun at his head, 530 00:25:09,576 --> 00:25:11,711 what'd you do? - I just stood there. 531 00:25:11,745 --> 00:25:15,482 - How long was it? 532 00:25:15,515 --> 00:25:19,185 - Um, a hundred years, it seemed like. 533 00:25:19,219 --> 00:25:25,625 I said, um, "God, forgive me". 534 00:25:25,658 --> 00:25:27,694 - After you said, "God, forgive me", 535 00:25:27,727 --> 00:25:29,095 what happened? 536 00:25:36,169 --> 00:25:37,470 - I pulled the trigger. 537 00:25:39,873 --> 00:25:41,608 - Viewers were like jurors 538 00:25:41,641 --> 00:25:43,910 rendering a verdict in real time. 539 00:25:43,943 --> 00:25:46,079 - I feel sorry for the kids. 540 00:25:46,079 --> 00:25:47,313 They're so young and everything 541 00:25:47,347 --> 00:25:48,715 and they've ruined their lives. 542 00:25:48,748 --> 00:25:51,251 - The story of the wedding ring was devastating. 543 00:25:51,284 --> 00:25:53,520 "Don't take that wedding ring, my wife will kill me." 544 00:25:53,553 --> 00:25:54,487 Oh, my lord. 545 00:25:54,521 --> 00:25:56,322 - There's no soap opera to this. 546 00:25:56,356 --> 00:25:57,824 It's real stuff. 547 00:25:59,793 --> 00:26:01,561 It's real stuff. 548 00:26:01,594 --> 00:26:03,797 - If the testimony from the young conspirators 549 00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:04,898 wasn't enough, 550 00:26:04,931 --> 00:26:07,801 prosecutors had Pamela in her own words, 551 00:26:07,834 --> 00:26:09,869 courtesy of another student, 552 00:26:09,903 --> 00:26:13,039 Pamela's intern, Cecelia Pierce. 553 00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:16,376 Prosecutors believed Cecelia knew about the murder plot, 554 00:26:16,409 --> 00:26:17,677 but they didn't have enough evidence 555 00:26:17,711 --> 00:26:19,779 to charge her with conspiracy. 556 00:26:19,813 --> 00:26:23,550 But police did convince her to cooperate. 557 00:26:23,583 --> 00:26:25,518 - When Cecelia Pierce came on board 558 00:26:25,552 --> 00:26:28,455 and, uh, she decided to start cooperating with us, 559 00:26:28,488 --> 00:26:31,524 she wore a body wire and talked to Pamela Smart. 560 00:26:31,558 --> 00:26:33,560 - Investigators hoped Pamela Smart 561 00:26:33,593 --> 00:26:36,129 would implicate herself in Gregg's murder. 562 00:26:36,162 --> 00:26:38,164 On the tapes, she didn't come right out 563 00:26:38,198 --> 00:26:39,966 and say, "I did it", 564 00:26:40,066 --> 00:26:43,336 but she did sound like someone worried about being arrested. 565 00:26:49,075 --> 00:26:51,211 - On one recording, Pamela implies 566 00:26:51,244 --> 00:26:53,847 she knows plenty about the murder plot. 567 00:27:01,488 --> 00:27:03,289 - She also worries about what would happen 568 00:27:03,323 --> 00:27:05,492 if one of the teens involved in the plot 569 00:27:05,525 --> 00:27:07,260 started talking to police. 570 00:27:13,566 --> 00:27:15,035 - How critical are those tapes? 571 00:27:15,068 --> 00:27:16,836 - I'd tell you, they're the nail in the coffin. 572 00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:18,071 If you really want the truth. 573 00:27:18,104 --> 00:27:19,773 I mean, they're the nail in the coffin. 574 00:27:19,806 --> 00:27:21,374 - As he wrapped up the state's case, 575 00:27:21,408 --> 00:27:24,077 Prosecutor Maggiotto warned the jury 576 00:27:24,110 --> 00:27:26,479 not to be fooled by Pamela Smart 577 00:27:26,513 --> 00:27:29,482 the way Billy Flynn and his accomplices had been. 578 00:27:29,516 --> 00:27:32,419 - This woman counted on from day one, 579 00:27:32,452 --> 00:27:34,587 that if this case ever came to court, 580 00:27:34,621 --> 00:27:36,856 she could put herself on the stand 581 00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:39,492 with her background, her intelligence, 582 00:27:39,526 --> 00:27:41,327 with her ability to answer questions, 583 00:27:41,361 --> 00:27:44,197 and pull one over on you, ladies and gentlemen. 584 00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:46,166 - The prosecutors had little doubt 585 00:27:46,199 --> 00:27:48,968 that the always poised Pamela Smart 586 00:27:49,069 --> 00:27:54,074 was capable of doing just that. 587 00:27:54,074 --> 00:27:57,243 - As the TV cameras roll and the nation watches, 588 00:27:57,277 --> 00:28:00,380 Pamela Smart is about to do something unusual 589 00:28:00,413 --> 00:28:03,116 for a murder defendant: talk. 590 00:28:09,489 --> 00:28:11,391 - Yes. 591 00:28:11,424 --> 00:28:12,192 - Yes. 592 00:28:12,225 --> 00:28:14,761 - Pamela Smart takes the stand. 593 00:28:14,794 --> 00:28:16,129 - I made a mistake. 594 00:28:16,162 --> 00:28:18,765 - You've made a lot of mistakes so far in this case. 595 00:28:18,798 --> 00:28:20,867 - I sure have. Yes, I have. 596 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:23,036 - Was killing your husband one of those mistakes? 597 00:28:23,036 --> 00:28:24,170 - No, it wasn't. 598 00:28:24,204 --> 00:28:25,071 - Was not getting a divorce, 599 00:28:25,105 --> 00:28:26,473 maybe that was one of the mistakes? 600 00:28:26,506 --> 00:28:27,841 You should have gotten divorced, but you didn't? 601 00:28:27,874 --> 00:28:29,843 - No, I didn't wanna get divorced. 602 00:28:37,150 --> 00:28:43,156 ** 603 00:28:44,224 --> 00:28:47,527 - Pamela Smart says the story told by the prosecutor 604 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,329 was compelling fiction, 605 00:28:49,362 --> 00:28:51,831 a tale meant for the movies. 606 00:28:51,865 --> 00:28:56,136 In fact, after the trial, her story became a movie, 607 00:28:56,169 --> 00:28:59,072 a breakout hit for Nicole Kidman. 608 00:28:59,072 --> 00:29:01,675 - If somebody can't remember Pamela Smart necessarily, 609 00:29:01,708 --> 00:29:04,277 you say, oh, the movie "To Die For" with Nicole Kidman. 610 00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:06,579 Oh, of course I know that case. 611 00:29:06,613 --> 00:29:10,016 - If you watch "To Die For", people take that and they say, 612 00:29:10,016 --> 00:29:12,185 "okay, this whole movie is true. 613 00:29:12,218 --> 00:29:16,089 And this person, Pamela Smart, is a horrible individual." 614 00:29:16,122 --> 00:29:18,858 - It's a very iconic movie. - Yes. 615 00:29:18,892 --> 00:29:21,761 And it helped to freeze me 616 00:29:21,795 --> 00:29:24,264 in the image of my worst mistake. 617 00:29:26,332 --> 00:29:30,870 - That mistake, Pamela says it was sleeping with Billy Flynn, 618 00:29:30,904 --> 00:29:33,740 not asking him to kill her husband. 619 00:29:33,773 --> 00:29:35,475 She denies that. 620 00:29:35,508 --> 00:29:38,845 Pamela says the jury was infected by a press 621 00:29:38,878 --> 00:29:41,881 that caricatured her as an evil seductress. 622 00:29:41,915 --> 00:29:44,384 She says the tabloids were full of lies, 623 00:29:44,417 --> 00:29:46,119 like those bikini photos. 624 00:29:46,152 --> 00:29:48,455 That they weren't shot to tempt Billy Flynn, 625 00:29:48,488 --> 00:29:50,357 they were taken for fun with a friend 626 00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:52,425 for a modeling contest. 627 00:29:52,459 --> 00:29:55,428 - Somehow the narrative escaped, or got created, 628 00:29:55,462 --> 00:29:57,864 that I took these pictures for Bill Flynn 629 00:29:57,897 --> 00:29:59,866 and gave them to him to seduce him. 630 00:29:59,899 --> 00:30:02,936 And that's totally a false story. 631 00:30:02,969 --> 00:30:05,772 - By the time Pamela took the stand, 632 00:30:05,805 --> 00:30:08,475 there was a lot to dig out of. 633 00:30:08,508 --> 00:30:11,144 She had to testify in court that, yes, she'd been 634 00:30:11,177 --> 00:30:14,247 a school district employee who'd slept with a student. 635 00:30:19,185 --> 00:30:19,986 - Yes. 636 00:30:21,354 --> 00:30:22,155 - Yes. 637 00:30:23,957 --> 00:30:25,492 - Yes. 638 00:30:25,525 --> 00:30:28,028 And then when I did, 639 00:30:28,061 --> 00:30:30,130 I told him that I didn't think it was right, 640 00:30:30,163 --> 00:30:36,002 and that it was wrong and that I wanted to be with Gregg. 641 00:30:36,036 --> 00:30:38,004 And he kept saying, why wouldn't-- 642 00:30:38,038 --> 00:30:39,472 why didn't I just get a divorce? 643 00:30:39,506 --> 00:30:41,241 And I said, because I love Gregg. 644 00:30:41,274 --> 00:30:44,644 - She said Billy didn't want the relationship to end. 645 00:30:44,678 --> 00:30:46,246 - He started crying, 646 00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:48,415 and he said that he couldn't live without me. 647 00:30:50,684 --> 00:30:53,086 - I felt bad. I didn't wanna hurt his feelings. 648 00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:55,755 I mean, I still wanted to be friends with him, and he's-- 649 00:30:55,789 --> 00:30:57,390 he was still a nice person. 650 00:30:57,424 --> 00:31:00,093 - And then, the prosecutor pressed her about 651 00:31:00,126 --> 00:31:02,962 why she didn't admit the affair from the beginning. 652 00:31:03,063 --> 00:31:05,231 - I did not want the whole United States of America 653 00:31:05,265 --> 00:31:06,766 to know that I had had an affair. 654 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:07,967 I made a mistake. 655 00:31:08,068 --> 00:31:10,737 - You've made a lot of mistakes so far in this case. 656 00:31:10,770 --> 00:31:12,372 - I sure have. Yes, I have. 657 00:31:12,405 --> 00:31:14,941 - Was killing your husband one of those mistakes? 658 00:31:14,974 --> 00:31:16,910 - No, it wasn't. - Was not getting a divorce, 659 00:31:16,943 --> 00:31:18,244 maybe that was one of the mistakes? 660 00:31:18,278 --> 00:31:19,913 You should have gotten divorced, but you didn't? 661 00:31:19,946 --> 00:31:21,514 - No, I didn't wanna get divorced. 662 00:31:21,548 --> 00:31:23,950 - You were so composed. 663 00:31:23,983 --> 00:31:26,986 Someone in the media even likened you to an ice princess. 664 00:31:27,087 --> 00:31:30,290 - Mm-hmm. I think I was in shock completely by it. 665 00:31:30,323 --> 00:31:32,492 I was overwhelmed by the media attention. 666 00:31:32,525 --> 00:31:36,830 I was raised my whole life not to be a cry baby, not to be, 667 00:31:36,863 --> 00:31:39,699 you know, overly dramatic or anything like that. 668 00:31:39,733 --> 00:31:42,535 And, of course, when I was by myself later on in the night, 669 00:31:42,569 --> 00:31:45,305 I would be crying when I was rewatching the coverage 670 00:31:45,338 --> 00:31:46,706 or whatever, you know? 671 00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:48,241 It was-- it was upsetting. 672 00:31:48,274 --> 00:31:50,710 - From defense attorney Mark Sisti's point of view, 673 00:31:50,744 --> 00:31:55,015 Pamela was more arrested development than Ice Queen. 674 00:31:55,115 --> 00:31:58,818 - She seemed more like a 14, 15 year old 675 00:31:58,852 --> 00:32:01,421 playing the part of an adult. 676 00:32:01,454 --> 00:32:04,224 - He says another false image that persisted 677 00:32:04,257 --> 00:32:05,925 was Billy Flynn and his friends 678 00:32:05,959 --> 00:32:09,362 as innocent young boys easily manipulated. 679 00:32:09,396 --> 00:32:12,766 The attorney says in reality, they were tough teens 680 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:14,567 who killed Gregg on their own 681 00:32:14,601 --> 00:32:17,937 and then concocted a story about Pamela's involvement 682 00:32:17,971 --> 00:32:21,107 to shorten their sentences. 683 00:32:21,141 --> 00:32:26,179 - The quote, "boys were boys" is a myth. 684 00:32:26,212 --> 00:32:29,983 The so-called boys were certified 685 00:32:30,083 --> 00:32:33,853 by the Attorney General's office as adults, 686 00:32:33,887 --> 00:32:36,256 with the sophistication of adults 687 00:32:36,289 --> 00:32:38,992 that would face trial in adult courtrooms 688 00:32:39,092 --> 00:32:41,628 and be punished with adult punishments. 689 00:32:41,661 --> 00:32:44,798 - He says it's outrageous that they were housed 690 00:32:44,831 --> 00:32:47,701 in the same jail for months before trial. 691 00:32:47,734 --> 00:32:49,803 Billy and the teen who held the knife 692 00:32:49,836 --> 00:32:52,305 were even in the same cell. 693 00:32:52,339 --> 00:32:55,408 - They had a long time 694 00:32:55,442 --> 00:32:59,446 to get their stories straight, if necessary. 695 00:32:59,479 --> 00:33:02,349 - From the day that Gregg was slaughtered 696 00:33:02,382 --> 00:33:04,851 in his own living room, 697 00:33:04,884 --> 00:33:07,854 to the day they stepped into the courtroom, 698 00:33:07,887 --> 00:33:11,191 they could prepare for trial together. 699 00:33:11,224 --> 00:33:14,060 - What do you say about the motive the prosecution gives 700 00:33:14,060 --> 00:33:15,562 about you wanting your husband dead? 701 00:33:15,595 --> 00:33:16,930 Life insurance-- - Well, no-- right. 702 00:33:16,963 --> 00:33:18,465 - Or the infidelity-- - No one has ever explained 703 00:33:18,498 --> 00:33:20,066 any kind of sufficient motive 704 00:33:20,100 --> 00:33:22,602 for why I would want to murder my husband 705 00:33:22,635 --> 00:33:24,704 when I could have just gotten divorced. 706 00:33:24,738 --> 00:33:26,873 My parents lived in a beautiful house right up the street. 707 00:33:26,906 --> 00:33:30,377 We had no children and no property or-- 708 00:33:30,410 --> 00:33:32,312 and there was nothing to lose. 709 00:33:32,345 --> 00:33:35,849 - Why would Billy Flynn kill Gregg, kill your husband, 710 00:33:35,882 --> 00:33:38,985 with the help of these other teenagers? 711 00:33:39,085 --> 00:33:40,253 - I think he felt like 712 00:33:40,286 --> 00:33:42,188 that was the only way he could be with me. 713 00:33:42,222 --> 00:33:44,457 It was very clear that as long as I was married, 714 00:33:44,491 --> 00:33:46,493 I was never gonna be with him. 715 00:33:46,526 --> 00:33:48,094 - Looking back, do you think there was anything 716 00:33:48,094 --> 00:33:50,830 you might have inadvertently said to Billy Flynn 717 00:33:50,864 --> 00:33:53,967 or done that could have provoked him into doing this? 718 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,102 - The only thing I ever said was that I'm not-- 719 00:33:56,136 --> 00:33:57,470 I'm not gonna be with you 720 00:33:57,504 --> 00:33:58,838 because I'm gonna be with Gregg. 721 00:33:58,872 --> 00:34:02,409 - Still, it's hard to explain those tapes. 722 00:34:07,647 --> 00:34:11,418 - Pamela told us there's a story behind those tapes. 723 00:34:11,451 --> 00:34:15,321 Her attorney says he warned her that Cecelia might be wired, 724 00:34:15,355 --> 00:34:17,657 but Pamela talked to her anyway. 725 00:34:17,691 --> 00:34:19,893 - The police weren't giving me any information. 726 00:34:19,926 --> 00:34:21,561 I was completely cut off. 727 00:34:21,594 --> 00:34:25,198 - She says on those tapes she's acting, 728 00:34:25,231 --> 00:34:27,834 pretending to know more than she did, 729 00:34:27,867 --> 00:34:30,904 in order to pump Cecelia for information. 730 00:34:30,937 --> 00:34:33,606 - All I wanted to know was did this guy kill my husband? 731 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,542 I had-- It's like, I couldn't even sleep. 732 00:34:35,575 --> 00:34:37,677 I had to know, did he really do this? 733 00:34:37,711 --> 00:34:40,280 Because I knew that if he killed my husband, 734 00:34:40,313 --> 00:34:41,715 I felt like it was all my fault. 735 00:34:41,748 --> 00:34:44,984 Whether I asked him to kill him or not, 736 00:34:45,085 --> 00:34:46,586 it was still my fault, 737 00:34:46,619 --> 00:34:49,122 because if I would never have had this relationship, 738 00:34:49,155 --> 00:34:50,824 my husband would still be alive. 739 00:34:50,857 --> 00:34:53,460 - Pamela points out that a lot of what's on the tapes 740 00:34:53,493 --> 00:34:54,694 is hard to hear. 741 00:34:54,728 --> 00:34:57,664 She also argues that the tapes may have been edited, 742 00:34:57,697 --> 00:35:00,600 and the transcripts given to the jury for deliberations 743 00:35:00,633 --> 00:35:03,937 were unreliable. - All these years later, 744 00:35:04,037 --> 00:35:08,208 we found out a secretary in the Attorney General's office 745 00:35:08,241 --> 00:35:09,542 made the transcription. 746 00:35:09,576 --> 00:35:11,811 That would be like having my mother make-- 747 00:35:11,845 --> 00:35:13,079 make the transcripts. 748 00:35:13,113 --> 00:35:16,249 - Do you understand why people hear those tapes 749 00:35:16,282 --> 00:35:18,084 and believe that you're guilty? 750 00:35:18,118 --> 00:35:21,788 - I do. Right. I do. I do. 751 00:35:24,324 --> 00:35:25,392 - The verdict. 752 00:35:25,425 --> 00:35:26,626 - Do you think it was fair? 753 00:35:26,659 --> 00:35:28,728 - And more than 30 years later, 754 00:35:28,762 --> 00:35:31,197 some are asking that same question. 755 00:35:31,231 --> 00:35:33,600 - A lot of forward, progressive- thinking governors 756 00:35:33,633 --> 00:35:36,202 are saying that this sentence is archaic. 757 00:35:36,236 --> 00:35:37,804 Enough is enough. 758 00:35:44,144 --> 00:35:49,883 ** 759 00:35:50,684 --> 00:35:52,886 - The jury in the Pamela Smart case 760 00:35:52,919 --> 00:35:56,890 deliberated for 13 hours before rendering its verdict. 761 00:35:56,923 --> 00:35:59,092 - How say you? Is the defendant guilty or not guilty 762 00:35:59,092 --> 00:36:00,794 of the offense charged? - Guilty. 763 00:36:00,827 --> 00:36:02,896 - So say you all? - Yes. 764 00:36:02,929 --> 00:36:06,633 - Guilty, and Gregg's parents agreed. 765 00:36:06,666 --> 00:36:08,268 - Tell him that, by God, she did do it. 766 00:36:08,301 --> 00:36:10,704 - She got what she deserved. - And she's getting-- yes. 767 00:36:10,737 --> 00:36:14,140 - But Pamela's family was heartbroken. 768 00:36:14,174 --> 00:36:16,309 - Get the hell out of the way. 769 00:36:16,343 --> 00:36:18,211 - Do you think it was fair, the trial? 770 00:36:18,244 --> 00:36:20,880 - I want my son. No, no. Get outta here. I want my son. 771 00:36:20,914 --> 00:36:22,916 - Not at all. Do you? Do you think it was fair? 772 00:36:22,949 --> 00:36:25,652 Of course not. From the beginning, it wasn't fair. 773 00:36:25,685 --> 00:36:28,421 - The sentence was mandatory. 774 00:36:28,455 --> 00:36:30,457 - I am required and do hereby sentence you 775 00:36:30,490 --> 00:36:32,058 to the New Hampshire State Prison for Women 776 00:36:32,058 --> 00:36:33,660 for the remainder of your life 777 00:36:33,693 --> 00:36:35,929 without the possibility of parole. 778 00:36:35,962 --> 00:36:39,366 - Life in prison. - With no chance of parole? 779 00:36:39,399 --> 00:36:41,468 - No chance for parole. 780 00:36:41,501 --> 00:36:45,071 - Today, this is home for Pamela Smart, 781 00:36:45,105 --> 00:36:47,907 Bedford Hills Correctional Facility for Women, 782 00:36:47,941 --> 00:36:49,976 about an hour north of New York City. 783 00:36:50,076 --> 00:36:51,911 She filed appeals 784 00:36:51,945 --> 00:36:54,748 on the grounds of excessive pretrial publicity, 785 00:36:54,781 --> 00:36:57,584 change of venue, and jury misconduct. 786 00:36:57,617 --> 00:37:00,020 The courts found no merit in those appeals 787 00:37:00,020 --> 00:37:01,721 and they were denied, 788 00:37:01,755 --> 00:37:05,592 while one by one, the teens, now middle-aged men, 789 00:37:05,625 --> 00:37:07,193 have been paroled. 790 00:37:07,227 --> 00:37:09,062 Billy Flynn, who pulled the trigger, 791 00:37:09,095 --> 00:37:11,698 was released in 2015. 792 00:37:11,731 --> 00:37:15,301 He addressed the court then, once again, in tears. 793 00:37:15,335 --> 00:37:18,638 - I felt a tremendous amount of shame. 794 00:37:18,672 --> 00:37:20,940 - Do you think about Billy Flynn, what he's doing? 795 00:37:21,041 --> 00:37:23,243 All the other guys? - I do sometimes, you know? 796 00:37:23,276 --> 00:37:26,312 And it makes me angry, but I'm a person 797 00:37:26,346 --> 00:37:29,849 that doesn't wanna live in bitterness and anger. 798 00:37:29,883 --> 00:37:31,651 - In our interview, 799 00:37:31,685 --> 00:37:34,087 what Pamela Smart did want to talk about 800 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,624 was her sentence, life without parole. 801 00:37:37,657 --> 00:37:42,095 - I'm not even arguing of trying my case again. 802 00:37:42,128 --> 00:37:45,732 What happened happened, you know, at trial. 803 00:37:45,765 --> 00:37:47,967 And I was found guilty, and I was sentenced, 804 00:37:48,068 --> 00:37:49,202 and I'm in prison, 805 00:37:49,235 --> 00:37:53,606 and I've spent nearly 29 years here now, 806 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,543 So at this point, all I'm saying is, 807 00:37:56,576 --> 00:37:58,611 is the sentence fair? 808 00:37:58,645 --> 00:38:00,113 - That's the kind of question 809 00:38:00,146 --> 00:38:03,183 many criminal justice reform advocates are asking. 810 00:38:03,216 --> 00:38:06,920 More and more states are rethinking mandatory sentencing 811 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:09,489 and the value of life without parole. 812 00:38:09,522 --> 00:38:12,726 - A lot of forward, progressive- thinking governors are saying 813 00:38:12,759 --> 00:38:14,861 that this sentence is archaic. 814 00:38:14,894 --> 00:38:20,266 It leaves no room for any real change in rehabilitation 815 00:38:20,300 --> 00:38:21,801 and redemption or mercy. 816 00:38:21,835 --> 00:38:24,037 - And if rehabilitation is the goal, 817 00:38:24,037 --> 00:38:27,273 Pamela Smart would say she's the poster child. 818 00:38:27,307 --> 00:38:30,744 - I have one master's in law and one in English literature, 819 00:38:30,777 --> 00:38:35,048 and I'm working on a doctorate in Biblical studies right now. 820 00:38:35,048 --> 00:38:38,485 - She's an inmate advocate, studies music, 821 00:38:38,518 --> 00:38:41,688 and she does this, praise dancing. 822 00:38:41,721 --> 00:38:45,492 - Praise dancing, which I do often in church, 823 00:38:45,525 --> 00:38:47,494 it makes me feel free. 824 00:38:47,527 --> 00:38:50,597 It's one of the times here that I do feel free. 825 00:38:55,068 --> 00:38:56,269 - Friends who have stood by her 826 00:38:56,302 --> 00:38:58,271 have waged a social media campaign 827 00:38:58,304 --> 00:39:02,842 to get Pamela Smart out of prison, #FreePamSmart. 828 00:39:02,876 --> 00:39:05,545 They say it's unfair that the person who pulled the trigger 829 00:39:05,578 --> 00:39:07,447 and killed Gregg Smart is free, 830 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,216 while Pamela is not. 831 00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:11,851 - So legally, what's left? 832 00:39:11,885 --> 00:39:14,220 - What's left is I have a petition 833 00:39:14,254 --> 00:39:16,289 in front of the New Hampshire Governor. 834 00:39:16,322 --> 00:39:18,892 I'm asking that my sentence be reduced 835 00:39:18,925 --> 00:39:23,596 to anything but life with no parole. 836 00:39:23,630 --> 00:39:28,368 - Why do you believe that you should be allowed to walk free? 837 00:39:28,401 --> 00:39:29,936 - I know if I get out of prison tomorrow, 838 00:39:30,036 --> 00:39:33,173 I'm gonna get a job, and I'm gonna be a productive citizen. 839 00:39:33,206 --> 00:39:35,875 And I just feel like enough is enough. 840 00:39:35,909 --> 00:39:39,145 - In the past, members of Gregg's family have said 841 00:39:39,179 --> 00:39:41,147 they oppose her release, 842 00:39:41,181 --> 00:39:43,316 and as the convicted mastermind, 843 00:39:43,350 --> 00:39:46,152 she should serve more time than the others. 844 00:39:46,186 --> 00:39:49,789 Bill Spencer looks back on all the years of news coverage 845 00:39:49,823 --> 00:39:51,958 and sees a gaping hole. 846 00:39:52,058 --> 00:39:53,927 - Don't forget about Gregg Smart. 847 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,963 He's been overshadowed for so many years. 848 00:39:57,063 --> 00:40:00,533 This was a young-- from everybody I've talked to, 849 00:40:00,567 --> 00:40:02,602 beautiful, young guy with his whole life ahead of him 850 00:40:02,635 --> 00:40:04,304 and so much promise. 851 00:40:04,337 --> 00:40:08,808 Um, he should be here now. 852 00:40:08,842 --> 00:40:11,378 - Pamela Smart filed yet another petition 853 00:40:11,411 --> 00:40:13,980 with the state of New Hampshire in 2018. 854 00:40:14,014 --> 00:40:16,049 She asked that her sentence be changed 855 00:40:16,082 --> 00:40:18,618 so she would be allowed to have a parole hearing. 856 00:40:18,651 --> 00:40:21,755 Andru Volinsky was a member of the state's executive council 857 00:40:21,788 --> 00:40:23,823 that considered her request. 858 00:40:23,857 --> 00:40:25,759 - There were letters from inmates. 859 00:40:25,792 --> 00:40:27,761 There were letters from family members. 860 00:40:27,794 --> 00:40:29,796 I learned that she accomplished a great deal 861 00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:31,231 while in prison. 862 00:40:31,264 --> 00:40:34,300 - More than 500 pages about what a good person 863 00:40:34,334 --> 00:40:36,536 Pamela Smart is. And then... 864 00:40:41,775 --> 00:40:44,444 - Ten little words blew her chance at a hearing 865 00:40:44,477 --> 00:40:46,079 to smithereens. 866 00:40:46,112 --> 00:40:50,116 She again denied responsibility for Gregg Smart's murder, 867 00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:52,886 so the council voted against her request 868 00:40:52,919 --> 00:40:54,688 for a change of sentence. 869 00:40:54,721 --> 00:40:59,426 - If Ms. Smart's petition had omitted any reference 870 00:40:59,459 --> 00:41:02,462 to whether she was guilty or not guilty, 871 00:41:02,495 --> 00:41:07,967 and had simply focused on her good efforts while in prison, 872 00:41:08,068 --> 00:41:11,304 I would have voted for a hearing. 873 00:41:11,338 --> 00:41:13,373 - I think it's-- The problem is it's sort of unpopular 874 00:41:13,406 --> 00:41:15,709 for a governor to say, "okay, I'll let her go," 875 00:41:15,742 --> 00:41:18,845 when she's not taking responsibility 876 00:41:18,878 --> 00:41:20,480 for what happened. - Well, actually, 877 00:41:20,513 --> 00:41:23,550 I am taking responsibility for what happened. 878 00:41:23,583 --> 00:41:25,518 - But you know what I mean, more direct responsibility-- 879 00:41:25,552 --> 00:41:27,354 - Right. - That you ordered this murder. 880 00:41:27,387 --> 00:41:30,223 - So I'm supposed to admit to something that I didn't do 881 00:41:30,256 --> 00:41:32,959 just to get out of prison? I don't get it. 882 00:41:32,992 --> 00:41:36,096 - Paul Maggiotto has strong words for Pamela Smart. 883 00:41:36,096 --> 00:41:39,165 More than once, he's called her a sociopath. 884 00:41:39,199 --> 00:41:41,501 - This is a personal opinion? - It's a personal opinion. 885 00:41:41,534 --> 00:41:42,836 I mean, I don't have the ability to bring 886 00:41:42,869 --> 00:41:46,840 a psycho-psychoanalyst to her and interviewer questions, 887 00:41:46,873 --> 00:41:48,641 but look at her behavior. 888 00:41:48,675 --> 00:41:50,643 Okay, maybe she's not a sociopath. 889 00:41:50,677 --> 00:41:53,146 Whatever she is, she's a sick woman. 890 00:41:53,179 --> 00:41:54,881 - Pamela Smart wrote you a note. 891 00:41:54,914 --> 00:41:57,250 - She did. She wrote me a note basically saying, 892 00:41:57,283 --> 00:42:00,687 I've heard you say on the media that I have no remorse. 893 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,623 And I do have remorse for what happened with the boys, 894 00:42:03,656 --> 00:42:06,092 and I do have remorse for my husband's death. 895 00:42:06,126 --> 00:42:08,428 And I wrote her back and basically said, 896 00:42:08,461 --> 00:42:12,165 I get you have that remorse, but you've never expressed remorse 897 00:42:12,198 --> 00:42:16,069 for planning the murder or for taking, uh, 898 00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:18,071 responsibility for the murder. 899 00:42:18,071 --> 00:42:20,640 - Will you ever say, "I did this" Or, "I-- 900 00:42:20,674 --> 00:42:22,942 - No. - "I told them to do this"? 901 00:42:22,976 --> 00:42:25,111 - No, because I did not tell them to do this. 902 00:42:25,145 --> 00:42:28,114 I didn't ask them to do that, and no, I will not. 903 00:42:28,148 --> 00:42:30,917 - So far, all of Pamela's petitions 904 00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:33,420 to be considered for parole have been denied. 905 00:42:33,453 --> 00:42:36,656 But she says she'll never stop trying to win her freedom. 906 00:42:40,093 --> 00:42:41,161 - And that's all for this edition 907 00:42:41,194 --> 00:42:43,096 of "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 908 00:42:43,096 --> 00:42:46,099 I'm Craig Melvin. Thank you for watching.