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You can have a blank page now
and the second you type in a word,

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decisions have been made about
typestyle and size and layouts.

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And those defaults
don't exist in a vacuum.

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They came from a place.

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In graphic design,
before the digital age,

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you had actual blank pages that
you had to decide where to start.

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From the cave artist of Lascaux,
it started in Egypt.

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This Roman alphabet inscription
has profoundly influenced the carver.

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The Chinese had pioneered
the art of printing centuries ago.

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- The Gutenberg-- Gutenberg--
- Johannes Gutenberg.

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Gutenberg is the first
to successfully combine

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all the necessary printing components.

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Since the days of Gutenberg,

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the typesetter in a real sense
has been the engineer of civilization.

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Printers have advanced learning
and have molded progress.

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The printer has led mankind by the hand,
so to speak,

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into the light of modern society.

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Okay, let's understand what happened.

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Johannes Gutenberg decided he wanted
to produce Bibles, mechanically,

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that looked like they were done by hand,
so he could charge hand-written prices.

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Gutenberg had printed a magnificent Bible.

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But what was more important,

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he had printed not just one
but 200 Bibles,

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all exactly alike.

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Moveable type gave them
the ability to set pages

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to have different fonts,
different sizes of fonts,

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and it stayed that way
for a few 100 years.

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Each piece of type had to be individually
picked out of boxes,

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set in lines,

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justified, made up in form,

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used on a press.

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Pipe setting couldn't keep up
with the pressings.

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World-famous newspapers
and small local presses as well

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were caught in the same strangling trap.

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The skills begun by Gutenberg
remained fairly unchanged

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for four centuries until 1886.

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When on July 3rd, Ottmar Mergenthaler,

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a German immigrant,

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demonstrated a machine
which today is regarded

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as one of the 10 greatest inventions
of all time,

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the linotype.

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What they have is a machine
that has the ability to set lines of type.

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When an operator
touches the linotype keys,

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pieces of brass punched
with alphabet and numerical characters

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are brought together into a line,

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automatically spaced.

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Type for nearly every newspaper
in the world

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and most books,

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is composed
by Mergenthaler's remarkable invention.

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It was the machine
that made mass education possible.

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It brought the price of books
within the range

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of the average working person.

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This is the machine over here.

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Now, it's practically unchanged
in 100 years.

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I feel if old man Mergenthaler came back,
he could probably go over to that machine,

56
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sit down, and set up
a couple of galleys of type

57
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without any problems at all.

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I started in production
when there was only hot metal,

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and type was set on linotype machines,

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and we went
to a letterpress printing.

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And when that press ran,
the whole building shook.

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I mean literally, you could hear it.

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It would go, "Doom, joom, joom!"

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as the printing paper went through it.

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I would work across
what was called a "turtle" and a form,

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from a journeyman.

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We'd bring down a layout
that was sketched by hand

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and then we'd put together the page
on top of the turtle

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in the hot metal composition,
line by line, line by line.

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It was very tedious
and very time-consuming.

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The closest cooperation is needed
between the page editor and the makeup.

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I got it. I got it.

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I gotta get it packed in.

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Together, they almost talked the type
into the page form,

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coaxing, cajoling to make it fit

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as they work against the clock.

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From editorial perspective,
it was very difficult,

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particularly for graphics production
like photographs,

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because we had to go to an outside service
to get an engraving made,

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which was 1, expensive,
and 2, very time-consuming.

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Printing presses don't have gray ink,

82
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so you have to simulate gray
using patterns of dots.

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You had large dots where you wanted black,

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you had small dots where you wanted light,

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and that's what a halftone is.

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After the image has been developed
and fixed,

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the plate is now brushed
with an acid-resistant powder,

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picturesquely named "dragon's blood".

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Again, the plate is heated, then cooled,
then placed into the acid bath.

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A rapidly-revolving cutter is chewing up
unessential metal from the cutting plate.

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And here is the finished plate.

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Photographs and graphics were seldom used,

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because of the expense
and time required.

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You had this unbelievable workflow

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where all the pieces had to be done
at different times by different people.

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And all had to come together
on the composing stone,

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where someone put it all in position.

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Okay, I won.

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The linotype dominated.

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But linotype machines were controlled
by the international typographical union

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that controlled the newspaper
and commercial typesetting industries.

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Postwar America was in a state
of shell shock.

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The focal point of agitation was
an uneasy American Labor Movement.

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In 1919,
4 million workers walked off the job

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in 3.600 different strikes.

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There was always this fear of a strike,

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because if the newspaper
couldn't get out that day,

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you don't get a second chance
at printing the news.

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Hey, what's this, Joe?

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What's what?

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Blank pages.

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Where's the news?

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In fact,
I have a newspaper here from 1923,

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when the pressmen in New York City
went on strike.

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All of the newspapers in New York City
combined and created one issue,

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and it has all the logos
of all of those newspapers.

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Meet the Union Printer.

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Printing is no easy job.

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We look upon ourselves
as just as highly-trained and skilled

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as the men in the executive departments
of the papers.

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So you think you need a hike in wages,
huh?

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I don't think so.

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I know so, Mr. Pelwick.

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So the first reason that phototypesetting
took over was in the newspaper industry

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where they attempted to move away
from the union.

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Phototypesetting was seen
as a way around that.

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And now combine that with the movement
to offset lithography,

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this was a revelation.

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Most of the newspaper industry
had moved toward tape operation,

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where they could produce coded tapes,

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run it through their linotype machine,

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and set the type automatically.

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You could use a girl for your typesetting,

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essentially a euphemism
for a non-union inexpensive person.

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Instead of fingers on keys,
perforated tape does the work

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like the old music roll
in a player piano.

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Automatic!

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High speed!

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Powerful!

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Accurate!

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Never gets tired!

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Never gets sick!

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Light is magic.

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There is magic in the way it is created,
in the way it travels,

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the way it behaves,

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and beyond the magic of light itself,

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there is the magic of science,
finding new and amazing uses for light.

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The earliest phototypesetters
began around 1900.

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In fact, it was discovered
in the 1920s,

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but didn't come into use until the 1950s,

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because of the unions
more than anything else.

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But all of these early machines
were based upon the mechanism

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of the previous hot metal machine

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and they were kludgy,
they were mechanical, they were erratic.

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No one really bought them.

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Two Frenchmen decide to throw
all that away and start from scratch.

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And they read a paper
written by Dr. Edgerton at MIT

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on stroboscopic printing.

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We are now in the Stroboscopic
Light Laboratory of MIT.

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Dr. Edgerton said if you use a camera
that's fast enough,

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you can photograph something that's moving
as though it was standing still.

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Consider as an example this balloon.

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With the high-speed pictures,

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you'll be able to see what happens
when the knife breaks the balloon.

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And they said, "Well,
we could have a font that was moving,

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and we had a fast enough light,
it would go through the character

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and then expose the photo material."

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And so Louis Moyroud and RenÃ© Higonnet

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developed the world's
first photographic typesetter,

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which in 1949 is introduced
as the "photon machine".

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And they composed the first book,
The Wonderful World of Insects.

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The first thing done with hot metal
was a Bible,

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the first thing done with phototypesetting
was a book on insects.

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Cloister.

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Bodoni.

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Bulmer.

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It was interesting to watch the transition
of the sales, and marketing,

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and infrastructure of font production.

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In hot metal days, that was a very
elaborate and complex process

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bringing a typeface to market.

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A lot of steps involved,
a lot of manufacturing.

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It was a big deal.

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Places like the American Type Founders
was a huge factory.

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In these casting machines, developed,
and built by American Type Founders,

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a metal alloy is melted in a pot
that is thermostatically controlled.

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The history of typeface design
is intimately connected with technology,

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because typefaces are designs,
they're concepts of how things look,

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and fonts are how you deliver that design.

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So to make a font, you have to understand
the means of production,

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means of how things are being printed,

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and it's been the nature
of typographic history.

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Monotype and linotype
both came out of the era

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of trying to mechanize type production
for an increase in scale

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and an increase in speed.

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Since it was work that was done
in a factory setting,

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there was a lot of control
with incredibly tight tolerances

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of how things are produced
and how they print it,

198
00:11:35,529 --> 00:11:40,934
because when they were manufacturing type
at a major industrial scale,

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things had to be consistent
and it had to predictable.

200
00:11:44,538 --> 00:11:47,274
So everything was tested, and tested,
and tested and tested

201
00:11:47,374 --> 00:11:50,878
with calipers and micrometers,
and they knew how everything worked.

202
00:11:50,978 --> 00:11:53,881
The very particular printing color
of text,

203
00:11:53,947 --> 00:11:56,483
that was produced
with fonts for hot metal,

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had to be replicated
when the companies pivoted to phototype.

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00:12:01,154 --> 00:12:04,758
To do that, they had to investigate
what it meant to switch

206
00:12:04,858 --> 00:12:08,328
from lead being pressed down
onto a surface,

207
00:12:08,428 --> 00:12:13,166
compared to light passing through film,
and multiple pieces of film,

208
00:12:13,267 --> 00:12:15,035
as it was scaled.

209
00:12:15,135 --> 00:12:19,072
When your whole production process
switches to photography,

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00:12:19,173 --> 00:12:21,742
you have to have photographic masters.

211
00:12:21,842 --> 00:12:25,913
To arrive at a printing plate,
the magic word is "negative".

212
00:12:26,513 --> 00:12:29,449
And one way to get a negative
is with a camera.

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00:12:30,117 --> 00:12:34,121
The master artwork for the typefaces
instead of living on paper

214
00:12:34,188 --> 00:12:39,860
was cut into a piece of Rubylith, which,
it's a film that the eye can see through.

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00:12:39,927 --> 00:12:43,797
The effect of phototypesetting
on typefaces was really profound,

216
00:12:43,897 --> 00:12:47,267
especially on typefaces
that had very fine details.

217
00:12:47,367 --> 00:12:50,003
Typefaces had to be redrawn quite a bit,

218
00:12:50,103 --> 00:12:52,973
and those fine serifs
had to be thickened up

219
00:12:53,073 --> 00:12:57,110
and made more square to replicate
the effect of letterpress printing,

220
00:12:57,211 --> 00:12:59,046
that it was originally done for.

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00:12:59,146 --> 00:13:01,648
Look at the difference between those two.

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Most phototypesetters ran the same way.

223
00:13:06,787 --> 00:13:07,754
They had a font.

224
00:13:07,855 --> 00:13:10,424
That font had to be in negative form.

225
00:13:10,524 --> 00:13:14,061
So every character or glyph
was a little negative.

226
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They all moved, so you had to rotate them
in some way.

227
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They were disks, they were segments,
they were strips,

228
00:13:22,669 --> 00:13:26,306
they were plastic or glass or film.

229
00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:29,576
The reason was that was the way
they got around the patents.

230
00:13:30,043 --> 00:13:32,846
So they all had to be different,
but they all were the same.

231
00:13:32,913 --> 00:13:34,882
They were negative characters.

232
00:13:34,948 --> 00:13:38,352
There was a timing system
that counted these little marks.

233
00:13:38,418 --> 00:13:40,487
So 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

234
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Oh, there's the letter A coming up.

235
00:13:42,422 --> 00:13:45,726
It would then flash a xenon flash lamp

236
00:13:45,826 --> 00:13:48,629
and went through the character
as it was moving,

237
00:13:48,695 --> 00:13:51,498
but photographed
as though it was standing still.

238
00:13:51,598 --> 00:13:55,169
The light would go through a lens
to make it bigger or smaller.

239
00:13:56,403 --> 00:14:01,175
It must be obvious now to those of us
employed in the graphic arts

240
00:14:01,275 --> 00:14:05,512
that we will, in the next five years,
undergo more changes

241
00:14:05,612 --> 00:14:09,116
than any other industry
in the history of our country.

242
00:14:14,154 --> 00:14:17,824
When I first started typesetting,
it was a male-dominated field.

243
00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:21,562
There were hot typesetters
and they were all gentlemen,

244
00:14:21,662 --> 00:14:24,631
and there was some of us new gals
that would come in,

245
00:14:24,698 --> 00:14:27,267
and we were wearing skirts
and that sort of thing,

246
00:14:27,367 --> 00:14:29,303
and we were not well received.

247
00:14:29,369 --> 00:14:31,271
But we were the cold type department

248
00:14:31,338 --> 00:14:36,243
and that just was infringing
on their trade

249
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:39,479
and so there was a little bit
of animosity there.

250
00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:40,981
I mean we were in awe of them,

251
00:14:41,081 --> 00:14:43,250
because of their abilities
and their talents,

252
00:14:43,317 --> 00:14:45,152
but they weren't so crazy about us.

253
00:14:46,386 --> 00:14:48,388
They did the same work we did

254
00:14:48,488 --> 00:14:51,692
and they were paid double
what we were paid.

255
00:14:51,792 --> 00:14:55,362
My paycheck said X amount/2

256
00:14:55,462 --> 00:14:57,664
and that meant that
I was paid exactly half

257
00:14:57,764 --> 00:15:00,601
of what the gentleman next to me
was being paid.

258
00:15:03,604 --> 00:15:07,174
Slowly but surely,
women entered the workforce.

259
00:15:07,541 --> 00:15:10,744
In our shop, it was primarily women,

260
00:15:10,811 --> 00:15:12,946
and the reason for that was

261
00:15:13,013 --> 00:15:17,184
the New York typographic industry
was primarily union men.

262
00:15:17,284 --> 00:15:20,120
We were an open shop or a non-union shop.

263
00:15:20,187 --> 00:15:22,823
The men operated linotype machines.

264
00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:25,993
Cold type machines was essentially
glorified typing to them,

265
00:15:26,093 --> 00:15:28,095
so they didn't wanna do it.

266
00:15:29,496 --> 00:15:31,532
People that knew how to type
and knew how to do this,

267
00:15:31,632 --> 00:15:37,538
that were excluded from the other shops,
gravitated to the open cold type shops.

268
00:15:38,005 --> 00:15:40,674
So it was probably 80% women.

269
00:15:42,142 --> 00:15:46,680
I think that phototypesetting did more
to bring women into the workplace,

270
00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:50,350
in the printing industry
than any other single technology.

271
00:15:51,151 --> 00:15:55,355
Cause of their nebulous intangible area
of knowhow.

272
00:15:55,422 --> 00:15:57,991
I won't use the word "creativity" here.

273
00:15:58,058 --> 00:15:59,426
It's a little overdone.

274
00:15:59,526 --> 00:16:02,262
Everybody is creative nowadays.

275
00:16:02,362 --> 00:16:04,331
So let's be a little more down to earth,

276
00:16:04,431 --> 00:16:07,634
and talk about professional art experience
and ability.

277
00:16:09,069 --> 00:16:10,337
Art ability.

278
00:16:10,437 --> 00:16:11,939
Thank you.

279
00:16:12,005 --> 00:16:15,375
Art ability
and good old-fashioned imagination.

280
00:16:16,844 --> 00:16:22,182
The huge difference was in
who did the typesetting.

281
00:16:23,150 --> 00:16:27,754
There existed a whole band
of very skilled men and women,

282
00:16:27,855 --> 00:16:29,556
the compositors.

283
00:16:30,724 --> 00:16:33,293
You would ring the typesetter,
you would name your typeface,

284
00:16:33,393 --> 00:16:36,430
you would read the text over,
and you would get it back.

285
00:16:36,496 --> 00:16:40,033
So the telephone in those days was--
it was really vital.

286
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:43,871
The really important designers too,
you couldn't exist without it.

287
00:16:44,538 --> 00:16:48,008
Many a time,
I would talk to the typesetter

288
00:16:48,075 --> 00:16:50,677
and I'd say, "Okay, it's 5:00, okay.

289
00:16:50,744 --> 00:16:54,181
But I need this typeset sheet tomorrow."

290
00:16:54,781 --> 00:16:57,317
And he said,
"Well, how soon can you get it to us?"

291
00:16:57,885 --> 00:17:00,087
And I said, "I'm spec'ing it right now."

292
00:17:02,289 --> 00:17:03,657
Okay.

293
00:17:04,825 --> 00:17:09,096
I don't think people today realize
how mathematical and detailed

294
00:17:09,196 --> 00:17:12,232
the whole construction of pages was,
and still is.

295
00:17:12,332 --> 00:17:15,602
It's just done behind the scenes
for you automatically.

296
00:17:16,370 --> 00:17:18,038
This is a copy of Graphics Master,

297
00:17:18,138 --> 00:17:21,808
which was sort of a Bible
of the cold-type era.

298
00:17:22,509 --> 00:17:24,845
You really couldn't see
what you were gonna get

299
00:17:24,945 --> 00:17:27,714
and you had to specify things
way in advance.

300
00:17:27,781 --> 00:17:33,120
So you needed a lot of references
in order to visualize what you wanted.

301
00:17:33,954 --> 00:17:36,390
This is a copy-fitting wheel.

302
00:17:36,456 --> 00:17:39,426
You'd actually count the characters
in your manuscript

303
00:17:39,526 --> 00:17:43,764
and depending on the line length
you wanted and the typeface size,

304
00:17:43,864 --> 00:17:47,334
you could determine how much copy
would fill up a given space.

305
00:17:48,335 --> 00:17:53,207
If you had an hour to spec raw text--
I'm talking like this, right?

306
00:17:53,307 --> 00:17:57,978
From this generic,
maybe Times Roman at the time

307
00:17:58,078 --> 00:18:00,314
or even you know, Helvetica,

308
00:18:00,914 --> 00:18:03,851
there was
a lot of design thinking already

309
00:18:03,951 --> 00:18:05,786
at that initial stage.

310
00:18:05,886 --> 00:18:10,791
Your decisions
had to be arrived at quickly

311
00:18:11,158 --> 00:18:13,827
to meet the schedule of another vendor.

312
00:18:14,595 --> 00:18:17,631
"I'm just gonna scramble
and send it to you by the end of the day."

313
00:18:17,698 --> 00:18:19,967
And that's what would happen.

314
00:18:21,201 --> 00:18:24,605
The way it would work would be
that the designer or the creative director

315
00:18:24,705 --> 00:18:26,240
would come up with an idea.

316
00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:28,509
First thing that was generated
was the copy.

317
00:18:28,609 --> 00:18:32,379
That would get typed up on a typewriter
and that would be sent to the designer,

318
00:18:32,446 --> 00:18:34,915
and the designer would start
sketching out ideas.

319
00:18:35,015 --> 00:18:36,750
How they saw the layout.

320
00:18:36,850 --> 00:18:40,954
They would narrow that down
and start doing more refine comps.

321
00:18:41,421 --> 00:18:43,357
All of the type had to be specified,

322
00:18:43,457 --> 00:18:45,592
needed to figure out
what the font size was,

323
00:18:45,692 --> 00:18:48,662
what the typestyle was, leading etcetera.

324
00:18:48,762 --> 00:18:52,666
All of that information would go
to the type compositor

325
00:18:52,766 --> 00:18:57,237
and that person would retype
into a photo composition machine.

326
00:18:58,038 --> 00:19:00,307
The output of that would be type galleys.

327
00:19:00,407 --> 00:19:04,311
They would be these long strips of paper
that would have columns of text in it.

328
00:19:04,411 --> 00:19:07,447
Meanwhile, other parts
of the layout would be developed

329
00:19:07,548 --> 00:19:10,117
such as photography, lettering
or illustration.

330
00:19:10,217 --> 00:19:13,053
Once those came
into the production artist's desk,

331
00:19:13,153 --> 00:19:14,821
they would need to figure out
what the size was,

332
00:19:14,922 --> 00:19:16,423
where the cropping was.

333
00:19:16,523 --> 00:19:19,960
Once they figured out the percentage
or the size of the illustration

334
00:19:20,060 --> 00:19:22,162
or the lettering or the photos,

335
00:19:22,262 --> 00:19:25,065
they would shoot that
on a Photostat camera to the actual size

336
00:19:25,165 --> 00:19:26,967
that it would be used in the layout.

337
00:19:27,067 --> 00:19:28,735
At this point,
all of the elements,

338
00:19:28,836 --> 00:19:32,372
the photography,
the type, the illustration, the lettering,

339
00:19:32,472 --> 00:19:35,776
all needed to come
and be pasted up onto the mechanical.

340
00:19:35,876 --> 00:19:37,678
Once the mechanical was done,

341
00:19:37,744 --> 00:19:40,681
it would be sent to the printer
in the proof pressroom,

342
00:19:40,781 --> 00:19:43,717
they would shoot the mechanical
on a large-format camera

343
00:19:43,817 --> 00:19:46,220
and they would make negatives out of it.

344
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,656
At this point,
the FPO photos were replaced

345
00:19:49,756 --> 00:19:53,927
with the actual photos that would be used
in the printing process.

346
00:19:54,027 --> 00:19:56,897
All of these negatives
would be stripped together

347
00:19:56,997 --> 00:19:59,600
on a large sheet of orange paper.

348
00:19:59,666 --> 00:20:02,302
The image at the point
was transferred onto a metal plate,

349
00:20:02,402 --> 00:20:04,371
which was then used
for the printing process.

350
00:20:05,939 --> 00:20:10,711
The first step in this operation then is
marking up copy for photocomposition.

351
00:20:10,811 --> 00:20:13,280
We'd get a manuscript in
and then we had to put codes in,

352
00:20:13,347 --> 00:20:15,682
because in those days,
there was no WYSIWYG.

353
00:20:15,749 --> 00:20:17,084
You couldn't see what you were doing.

354
00:20:17,184 --> 00:20:18,919
It was just a bunch of codes.

355
00:20:19,019 --> 00:20:23,724
You had no typewriter paper
and you had no screen.

356
00:20:23,790 --> 00:20:28,562
So you were typing blind
called "idiot keyboarding", if you will.

357
00:20:28,662 --> 00:20:32,633
So a whole new function grew up
called the "markup person".

358
00:20:32,733 --> 00:20:34,501
And they were very important
in the process,

359
00:20:34,601 --> 00:20:37,304
because the operator
just followed those instructions

360
00:20:37,404 --> 00:20:38,739
as they keyboarded everything.

361
00:20:38,805 --> 00:20:42,876
The best markup people actually had
a vision of the page in their head.

362
00:20:42,943 --> 00:20:45,712
If you send style 2, style 3

363
00:20:45,812 --> 00:20:50,217
and then at least one of our operators
could envision that exactly in her mind.

364
00:20:50,317 --> 00:20:52,653
I always thought
it was quite extraordinary.

365
00:20:52,719 --> 00:20:55,756
This is the markup procedure used
to set a paragraph

366
00:20:55,856 --> 00:21:00,093
in Spartan Book Roman type,
shown as number 4 grid.

367
00:21:00,194 --> 00:21:04,164
22 picas wide and in 12-point type size.

368
00:21:04,264 --> 00:21:07,067
For markup I knew what I needed to do.

369
00:21:07,134 --> 00:21:09,203
I would have to get the correct font

370
00:21:09,303 --> 00:21:12,739
and I would have
to set up my little punched tape machine,

371
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,777
and then I would just input,
but you did codes.

372
00:21:16,877 --> 00:21:19,112
You would say bell F.

373
00:21:19,213 --> 00:21:20,747
That was for font.

374
00:21:20,814 --> 00:21:23,851
And you put in whatever number
that particular font was.

375
00:21:23,951 --> 00:21:25,686
And then bell L for was line and length.

376
00:21:26,186 --> 00:21:30,023
And then just input the type itself.

377
00:21:31,491 --> 00:21:34,561
You would take the punched tape,
line them up,

378
00:21:34,628 --> 00:21:38,031
take 'em down to the VIP printer.

379
00:21:38,131 --> 00:21:42,436
The input tape is loaded onto the reader
of the control unit.

380
00:21:43,337 --> 00:21:45,372
Bring 'em in to us, the operator,

381
00:21:45,472 --> 00:21:48,575
and we would thread the tape
through the machine,

382
00:21:48,642 --> 00:21:50,711
and inside the machine,
there would be a drum,

383
00:21:50,777 --> 00:21:52,412
and on the drum there would be fonts,

384
00:21:52,479 --> 00:21:55,549
which would be a plastic card,
the size of a business card,

385
00:21:55,649 --> 00:21:59,520
that would have an alphabet on it
and symbols, and one would be Helvetica,

386
00:21:59,620 --> 00:22:02,823
one would be Helvetica Bold,
one would be Palatino.

387
00:22:03,390 --> 00:22:06,226
There are 18 font grids in this turret.

388
00:22:06,727 --> 00:22:09,863
Faces of type can be changed
by simply removing the grid

389
00:22:09,963 --> 00:22:12,499
and replacing it
with one of the desired font.

390
00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:15,202
We would spending these drums
wearing white cotton gloves,

391
00:22:15,302 --> 00:22:17,337
so we didn't get smudges on them.

392
00:22:17,604 --> 00:22:20,207
And it was all coding,
nothing was WYSIWYG back then.

393
00:22:21,108 --> 00:22:23,277
0But if you got that coding wrong,

394
00:22:23,343 --> 00:22:27,314
you had massive amounts
of white blank paper

395
00:22:27,414 --> 00:22:28,515
coming out of the proofer.

396
00:22:28,582 --> 00:22:31,285
So that was very unfortunate.

397
00:22:34,154 --> 00:22:37,291
In a day or so,
they would send back galleys,

398
00:22:37,391 --> 00:22:39,359
which were paper proofs.

399
00:22:39,459 --> 00:22:43,697
You'd have to lay it out on the pages,
determine if it was long,

400
00:22:43,764 --> 00:22:45,098
if it was short.

401
00:22:45,199 --> 00:22:48,535
It would then,
before you'd send it back for revision,

402
00:22:48,635 --> 00:22:52,773
it would either go to the designer
or I would make some comments

403
00:22:52,873 --> 00:22:57,544
based on the rag, eliminating the widows,

404
00:22:57,644 --> 00:23:00,380
different kerning
and spacing kinds of issues,

405
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,385
and the galley would be
very, very detailed, marked up,

406
00:23:05,485 --> 00:23:08,822
Go back to the type shop,
wait for another galley,

407
00:23:08,922 --> 00:23:11,091
hope it was really close.

408
00:23:11,191 --> 00:23:14,127
You hope
it didn't have to go back more than twice,

409
00:23:14,228 --> 00:23:15,662
because it was so expensive.

410
00:23:15,762 --> 00:23:18,398
If you couldn't manage that, you'd be out.

411
00:23:19,066 --> 00:23:20,234
It was almost so scary.

412
00:23:20,334 --> 00:23:23,337
When that package comes in
and you're almost afraid to open it up,

413
00:23:23,403 --> 00:23:26,206
like you know, it was like-- because
you know, you're gonna be on the phone,

414
00:23:26,273 --> 00:23:28,542
you're gonna be able to say,
"Well, that's what you wanted."

415
00:23:28,609 --> 00:23:29,576
"No, that's not what I wanted.

416
00:23:29,643 --> 00:23:31,745
What I wanted was this
that you'd understand--"

417
00:23:31,812 --> 00:23:33,847
Well, you make these
proofreading marks like,

418
00:23:33,947 --> 00:23:35,983
"Oh, I didn't understand
what that mark was."

419
00:23:37,985 --> 00:23:40,220
You're bringing back terrible memories.

420
00:23:40,988 --> 00:23:43,757
Every shop where they did paste up,

421
00:23:43,857 --> 00:23:46,927
they had someone known
as the "magic knife".

422
00:23:47,027 --> 00:23:48,896
Two letters were in the wrong order.

423
00:23:48,962 --> 00:23:51,598
They are people
who were so good with an X-ACTO blade

424
00:23:51,698 --> 00:23:56,637
that they could cut those letters out,
move them around, and take them back down.

425
00:23:56,703 --> 00:24:01,175
And you didn't have to go back
for another proof, shoot it to film,

426
00:24:01,275 --> 00:24:03,210
and then restrip it.

427
00:24:03,277 --> 00:24:05,879
I remember Aaron Burns.

428
00:24:05,979 --> 00:24:06,980
He would come over

429
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,117
and you have to take this for the time
it was meant.

430
00:24:10,217 --> 00:24:13,086
He would look at what I'm doing
and he would say,

431
00:24:13,187 --> 00:24:16,557
"Sweetie, can you move the period
over a quarter of a point?"

432
00:24:17,591 --> 00:24:20,928
I always kind of chickened out and said,
"Set to fit."

433
00:24:21,028 --> 00:24:23,964
So the typesetter
would figure it out for me

434
00:24:24,064 --> 00:24:25,299
and that's where I started to realize

435
00:24:25,399 --> 00:24:28,836
that your typesetter
could make you look so good.

436
00:24:28,936 --> 00:24:32,439
They had the talent and ability,
they would catch your typos,

437
00:24:32,539 --> 00:24:34,675
they would proofread everything for you.

438
00:24:34,775 --> 00:24:37,911
They would call you on the phone and go,
"Are you sure you want this?"

439
00:24:38,412 --> 00:24:42,482
When you walked into that
final presentation with your work,

440
00:24:42,583 --> 00:24:43,917
you're going, "Look, what I did!"

441
00:24:44,017 --> 00:24:45,385
But you knew in the back of your head

442
00:24:45,485 --> 00:24:48,155
that somebody else was making you look
really good.

443
00:24:54,228 --> 00:24:57,664
We of course had to do pasting,
that was part of the game.

444
00:25:01,335 --> 00:25:05,739
I saw a brochure from a university
down in Kansas,

445
00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:07,574
they were teaching a paste-up.

446
00:25:08,609 --> 00:25:11,311
And I thought about that.
I thought, "Paste-up.

447
00:25:11,612 --> 00:25:13,647
Maybe there should be a seminar."

448
00:25:14,147 --> 00:25:15,916
So that got me thinking,

449
00:25:15,983 --> 00:25:18,819
and I tried it out in 1971

450
00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:20,654
for one day,

451
00:25:20,988 --> 00:25:23,991
and I had 30 people come here.

452
00:25:24,691 --> 00:25:28,896
And during the '70s,
that was our kind of a golden years.

453
00:25:29,196 --> 00:25:33,033
The things that we made were made strictly
for paste-up.

454
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:38,739
T-squares and paste-up boards, grids,
and burnishing tools, a lot of that,

455
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:41,842
and wax and waxers, technical pens.

456
00:25:41,942 --> 00:25:44,745
Well, people wanted to buy those you know,
"Oh my, that pen!

457
00:25:44,845 --> 00:25:49,216
I showed-- would demonstrate that,
and you know, "Where can I get that?"

458
00:25:49,316 --> 00:25:51,118
"Well, here's the catalogue."

459
00:26:00,194 --> 00:26:01,662
Good news.

460
00:26:01,728 --> 00:26:03,864
You don't have to be an artist

461
00:26:03,964 --> 00:26:07,434
and you don't need a college degree
to be a keyliner.

462
00:26:08,068 --> 00:26:10,771
You do need proper tools and equipment.

463
00:26:10,871 --> 00:26:13,473
And for that purpose,
we're showing you the kinds of things

464
00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:15,642
0that you may need in your shop.

465
00:26:18,212 --> 00:26:22,983
All my tools are still here,
ruling pens, compasses,

466
00:26:23,050 --> 00:26:28,188
definitely a set of French curves,
an adjustable angle.

467
00:26:30,224 --> 00:26:32,659
And of course, the trusty T-square.

468
00:26:32,726 --> 00:26:36,563
Every morning I would come in
and I would shake my Rapidograph

469
00:26:36,663 --> 00:26:39,800
and get the ink flowing to the tip,
and I would start my day.

470
00:26:39,867 --> 00:26:42,636
This is what we are going to do.

471
00:26:42,736 --> 00:26:45,105
And I'm going to show you,
even as a beginner,

472
00:26:45,205 --> 00:26:47,975
how simple and easy it is to do.

473
00:26:49,276 --> 00:26:53,046
First step in the process would have been
to align your paste-up board

474
00:26:53,146 --> 00:26:55,148
on your drafting table.

475
00:26:55,716 --> 00:26:59,987
The boundaries of it were done
with a non-repro blue pen

476
00:27:00,053 --> 00:27:02,990
and it was kind of a strip ways
sort of color that you could write on,

477
00:27:03,090 --> 00:27:04,725
but the cameras wouldn't see it.

478
00:27:05,826 --> 00:27:11,031
So everything I'm doing is manually drawn.

479
00:27:14,234 --> 00:27:16,136
We now have a road map
taped up on the board,

480
00:27:16,236 --> 00:27:17,271
so we know what to do.

481
00:27:17,337 --> 00:27:19,806
We have to literally cut each chunk out,

482
00:27:19,873 --> 00:27:23,577
place it into position
as you see on this layout.

483
00:27:23,677 --> 00:27:24,745
How do we do that?

484
00:27:24,845 --> 00:27:27,347
Well, the first thing we need is
an adhesive.

485
00:27:27,447 --> 00:27:29,049
Now a lot of people worked for pasting-up.

486
00:27:29,149 --> 00:27:31,185
Back in the old days,
it was rubber cement.

487
00:27:31,285 --> 00:27:32,286
That's what we used.

488
00:27:32,386 --> 00:27:35,923
And along came a fellow in Toronto
that invented a waxer,

489
00:27:35,989 --> 00:27:38,292
which had a little roller
and you plugged it in,

490
00:27:38,392 --> 00:27:41,128
you put the wax in there and it melted.

491
00:27:41,628 --> 00:27:44,631
And you could roll that roller
on to the piece of paper.

492
00:27:44,698 --> 00:27:50,204
I remember the waxer putting the hard bars
of wax into the waxer

493
00:27:50,304 --> 00:27:52,072
and you know,
kind of waiting for them to melt

494
00:27:52,139 --> 00:27:55,442
you know, it's kinda--
it's like putting up a stick of butter

495
00:27:55,542 --> 00:27:58,178
into a already existing bath
of warm butter,

496
00:27:58,278 --> 00:28:02,049
and you kinda see it kinda just melt in,
fade away.

497
00:28:04,184 --> 00:28:08,522
Now we lay that galley of type
on the board,

498
00:28:08,889 --> 00:28:12,826
we have previously, for purposes
of condensing the time on camera,

499
00:28:12,926 --> 00:28:15,195
trimmed out the artwork.

500
00:28:15,262 --> 00:28:16,630
You know, you'd arrive
at work in the morning,

501
00:28:16,730 --> 00:28:19,967
you'd have like long scrolls
of typesetting

502
00:28:20,067 --> 00:28:22,636
that was an entire book on a long scroll.

503
00:28:22,703 --> 00:28:24,037
That was these kind of cheap paper bags

504
00:28:24,137 --> 00:28:27,207
that you might buy at the grocery store
or something,

505
00:28:27,307 --> 00:28:29,877
and it was my job
to cut those galleys apart

506
00:28:29,943 --> 00:28:31,178
and lay out the pages.

507
00:28:31,245 --> 00:28:32,446
So you know, you had the boards

508
00:28:32,546 --> 00:28:36,617
with non-repro blue outlines
of the outside of the pages,

509
00:28:36,717 --> 00:28:39,186
and all the crop marks, and the depth.

510
00:28:39,286 --> 00:28:42,189
And you always wanted the two facing pages
to be the same number of lines

511
00:28:42,289 --> 00:28:43,557
on facing pages.

512
00:28:43,624 --> 00:28:46,260
Really basic, basic,
basic typesetting stuff.

513
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:47,928
It wasn't anything fancy.

514
00:28:49,296 --> 00:28:53,867
At that time it was very common
to use clipart for a lot of graphic design

515
00:28:53,967 --> 00:28:56,203
and companies would subscribe to a service

516
00:28:56,303 --> 00:28:59,506
where they would get monthly types
of clipart.

517
00:28:59,873 --> 00:29:02,809
This artwork was kinda precious,
because you were paying for it.

518
00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:06,547
So what you would do is,
you would send it off to a cameraman

519
00:29:06,647 --> 00:29:08,782
and they would shoot it,

520
00:29:08,849 --> 00:29:14,354
and you would get a PMT
or a stat that looked like this.

521
00:29:14,454 --> 00:29:16,623
You didn't just look on the screen
and say,

522
00:29:16,723 --> 00:29:18,859
"Do I like that color gray or not?"

523
00:29:18,959 --> 00:29:23,964
You had to say, "I want a 50% gray screen
or a 12% gray screen, etcetera."

524
00:29:24,064 --> 00:29:27,467
And even the line screen,
the amount of dots per inch

525
00:29:27,568 --> 00:29:29,570
was something you had to specify.

526
00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:32,906
You would have to build
each one of the colors separately.

527
00:29:33,006 --> 00:29:37,277
One color on a sheet of acetate,
such as this,

528
00:29:37,377 --> 00:29:42,549
and then the keyline color would be
on the board itself.

529
00:29:43,717 --> 00:29:48,088
And a lot of times, you used a material
called "Rubylith" or "Amberlith",

530
00:29:48,155 --> 00:29:52,159
and what that would indicate
to the cameraman was

531
00:29:52,226 --> 00:29:54,361
this was a piece of artwork.

532
00:29:55,162 --> 00:29:59,433
The Photostat machine was a very big part
of the production department.

533
00:29:59,533 --> 00:30:00,734
It was a very big machine.

534
00:30:00,834 --> 00:30:03,237
It must have been about 8, 10 feet wide.

535
00:30:03,337 --> 00:30:06,607
It had chemicals in it
that had to be changed every week.

536
00:30:07,241 --> 00:30:10,577
The way it worked is
you would get the actual final artwork.

537
00:30:10,677 --> 00:30:15,782
You would put it in the camera area
and then you would shoot the Photostat,

538
00:30:15,883 --> 00:30:18,018
which would be developed instantly
and come out.

539
00:30:18,085 --> 00:30:25,225
And what that was it was just used
to scale and reproduce roughly the image.

540
00:30:25,292 --> 00:30:26,960
And as long as you have technology,

541
00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:29,663
there are always gonna be
unintended consequences

542
00:30:29,763 --> 00:30:31,965
that turn into something
that's more significant

543
00:30:32,065 --> 00:30:34,067
than what the intention was.

544
00:30:34,168 --> 00:30:37,137
But the tool that I was most excited about
was the stat cam.

545
00:30:37,704 --> 00:30:43,577
It allowed me to create for a short period
a style for the magazine I did, Rock.

546
00:30:43,644 --> 00:30:49,550
I used continuous line screens,
which were horizontal or vertical lines,

547
00:30:49,616 --> 00:30:53,020
and I would take halftones
and put 'em on Kodalith paper

548
00:30:53,086 --> 00:30:54,988
that had a solarizing effect.

549
00:30:55,389 --> 00:30:59,960
And I would use that for the covers
that I would then cut rubies for

550
00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:03,430
and get flat color and coloring.

551
00:31:03,530 --> 00:31:05,699
And then put it all together on a board.

552
00:31:05,766 --> 00:31:10,103
And in those days, every bit
of artwork you did had to be scaled

553
00:31:10,204 --> 00:31:13,874
and proportion wheels were
on everybody's desks,

554
00:31:13,974 --> 00:31:16,210
because figuring it out mathematically
didn't make sense

555
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:18,245
when you had this
nice little convenient way

556
00:31:18,312 --> 00:31:21,748
of determining exactly
what percentage to do.

557
00:31:21,849 --> 00:31:27,054
You'd write FPO just so that the printer
doesn't mistake it for final artwork.

558
00:31:28,388 --> 00:31:30,557
So that was-- it was really important.

559
00:31:32,759 --> 00:31:36,029
This is for a magazine called "The Rocket"

560
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:39,433
and the way it was set up was--

561
00:31:40,367 --> 00:31:41,935
Okay.

562
00:31:42,035 --> 00:31:44,471
The photographs
were done in a photo booth

563
00:31:44,571 --> 00:31:46,607
because we didn't have any money
to hire a photographer

564
00:31:46,707 --> 00:31:48,041
to take these shots.

565
00:31:48,108 --> 00:31:52,079
I Xeroxed off those photographs,
and stuck them down here,

566
00:31:52,179 --> 00:31:55,549
and I wrote "FPO" saying that these
are for position only.

567
00:31:55,649 --> 00:31:58,819
These are to tell them
where a halftone reproduction

568
00:31:58,919 --> 00:32:03,090
of that photograph is supposed to go
and exactly how to position it.

569
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:05,592
Then I cut an overlay with Amberlith

570
00:32:05,692 --> 00:32:08,729
that you were supposed to knock out
and be printed in a color,

571
00:32:08,829 --> 00:32:10,764
in this case green.

572
00:32:10,831 --> 00:32:14,168
And then this all the typography
that gets knocked out in colors.

573
00:32:14,268 --> 00:32:18,038
You can see very clearly
how I sliced it all apart,

574
00:32:18,138 --> 00:32:20,340
and made it curve around and everything.

575
00:32:22,342 --> 00:32:26,813
And then, this was the keyline
that I put on the top,

576
00:32:26,914 --> 00:32:29,583
and I take-- it's a piece of tissue paper
and I take marking pens,

577
00:32:29,683 --> 00:32:32,452
and indicate how the colors
were all supposed to work.

578
00:32:38,425 --> 00:32:41,295
The thing that was most exciting
was always the cover.

579
00:32:41,395 --> 00:32:44,231
At Screw every cover was an illustration.

580
00:32:44,298 --> 00:32:47,601
It would be up to the artists to come up
with what colors they wanted

581
00:32:47,701 --> 00:32:50,637
and we'd match them with PMS colors.

582
00:32:54,174 --> 00:32:59,146
I would be hired to design a cover
using hand lettering as a basis,

583
00:32:59,213 --> 00:33:01,982
plus illustration to add to it.

584
00:33:04,084 --> 00:33:06,420
I was good with a knife,
I was good with ink.

585
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,122
So inking something,
and then put it laying down color

586
00:33:09,223 --> 00:33:12,860
and carefully cutting it,
and then overlaying more,

587
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,596
that just sort of became
my way of doing it.

588
00:33:16,663 --> 00:33:21,935
Here's a title
from a National Geographic book

589
00:33:22,035 --> 00:33:25,439
called the "Story of America"
and this was one of the pieces from it.

590
00:33:25,506 --> 00:33:26,773
This was inked,

591
00:33:26,874 --> 00:33:32,713
this is a film positive of that inking
that we could produce for the black plate.

592
00:33:32,813 --> 00:33:36,750
And then the artwork is a print
of the same thing identical in register.

593
00:33:36,817 --> 00:33:40,754
All these stars are cut out
of overlay film,

594
00:33:40,854 --> 00:33:46,727
which is a sticky back transparent film,
that you put down,

595
00:33:46,827 --> 00:33:51,098
you cut with your knife
and peel away what you don't want.

596
00:35:42,910 --> 00:35:46,980
Now all we have left to do is
to fix all of the various elements.

597
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,984
So we start it out with pasta
and that fits right in there.

598
00:35:51,084 --> 00:35:54,488
Then we take pizza, that fits in there.

599
00:35:54,555 --> 00:35:57,424
Take fine wines,
that fits down at the bottom.

600
00:35:58,659 --> 00:36:01,395
Beef and veal goes in here.

601
00:36:02,629 --> 00:36:07,034
Then you would cut that out
and apply it on your pasteboard.

602
00:36:07,367 --> 00:36:11,238
They didn't have the ability
to put drop caps into text,

603
00:36:11,305 --> 00:36:14,708
so you would have to physically cut out
your drop cap,

604
00:36:14,808 --> 00:36:18,512
and you would have to plan
for a space for that drop cap,

605
00:36:18,579 --> 00:36:22,616
and then on your paste-up,
you would put those together.

606
00:36:23,283 --> 00:36:27,087
If there were any ruling
or lines to be done,

607
00:36:27,187 --> 00:36:29,957
I had to do that myself
with Rapidographs.

608
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:34,928
On vellum, you'd overlap the corner,
so you didn't have a blobby corner,

609
00:36:35,028 --> 00:36:36,830
making them perfect.

610
00:36:36,930 --> 00:36:39,299
And sometimes
that was very time-consuming.

611
00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:41,902
I hated doing paste-up.

612
00:36:42,002 --> 00:36:44,271
I was terrible at it.

613
00:36:44,371 --> 00:36:49,276
It required such precision,
and lot of injuries with X-ACTO knives,

614
00:36:49,343 --> 00:36:54,281
and hot wax everywhere,
and putting every page number by hand.

615
00:36:54,381 --> 00:36:56,650
I seem to have lost
my little piece of art here.

616
00:36:56,750 --> 00:36:58,385
It's probably
underneath the straight edge,

617
00:36:58,485 --> 00:37:00,254
so we'll pick that up.

618
00:37:00,354 --> 00:37:01,955
The important thing is not to panic.

619
00:37:02,055 --> 00:37:04,458
Whatever you've lost,
it's around here somewhere.

620
00:37:04,558 --> 00:37:07,628
Here we have our piece of art.

621
00:37:07,694 --> 00:37:09,696
So we'll place that into position,

622
00:37:09,796 --> 00:37:13,534
make sure that the vertical
is indeed vertical,

623
00:37:13,634 --> 00:37:17,604
and there we have everything in place.

624
00:37:17,704 --> 00:37:19,773
But you had to burnish it.

625
00:37:19,873 --> 00:37:23,677
If you didn't burnish it you know,
it's not gonna stick.

626
00:37:23,777 --> 00:37:26,213
Depending upon the complexity
of the layout,

627
00:37:26,313 --> 00:37:30,117
sometimes you had many acetate overlays.

628
00:37:31,985 --> 00:37:34,955
This was a poster announcing a lecture

629
00:37:35,055 --> 00:37:38,325
that Kathy McCoy was doing
in San Francisco

630
00:37:38,392 --> 00:37:41,128
for the AI G8 San Francisco Chapter.

631
00:37:41,762 --> 00:37:44,531
And this was done in 1987.

632
00:37:44,631 --> 00:37:47,501
I actually have the mechanicals.

633
00:37:47,568 --> 00:37:50,704
Okay, so there's of course the overlay
which has the color breaks.

634
00:37:50,804 --> 00:37:54,241
For example, it says here,
"a 100% yellow line",

635
00:37:54,341 --> 00:37:57,878
which are these diagonal lines
to your left.

636
00:37:57,945 --> 00:38:05,118
So that a 100%, but then this frame here
is 40% yellow.

637
00:38:05,185 --> 00:38:07,087
So you would think,
"If you have two colors,

638
00:38:07,187 --> 00:38:09,723
shouldn't there only be two overlays?"

639
00:38:09,790 --> 00:38:11,291
Well...

640
00:38:12,793 --> 00:38:16,163
This is all done by Rapidograph.

641
00:38:17,664 --> 00:38:19,266
Look how thin this is.

642
00:38:19,366 --> 00:38:22,803
I had to make sure
this was actually glued straight.

643
00:38:23,737 --> 00:38:27,508
These are a series of dots
that were all kind of glued together

644
00:38:27,608 --> 00:38:29,810
with my waxer.

645
00:38:30,711 --> 00:38:32,145
Okay, and this is the best part.

646
00:38:32,246 --> 00:38:33,347
Look at these letters.

647
00:38:33,447 --> 00:38:37,484
They were all cut one by one
to follow a contour.

648
00:38:39,086 --> 00:38:42,022
FPO, for position only.

649
00:38:42,122 --> 00:38:46,860
This is Rubylith you know, 66%,
because I wanted it lighter.

650
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,729
And the printer was very aware
that you know,

651
00:38:48,829 --> 00:38:50,831
he would have to shoot this separately,

652
00:38:50,931 --> 00:38:54,067
but there were all of course
all these registration marks.

653
00:38:56,637 --> 00:38:58,872
I love to do this!

654
00:38:58,939 --> 00:39:02,476
It's like a cut-and-paste collage really.

655
00:39:02,543 --> 00:39:07,281
Overlays for every different color break,
maddening.

656
00:39:07,381 --> 00:39:09,249
I don't miss that at all.

657
00:39:09,850 --> 00:39:15,522
This combination of bits
and pieces of typography, lines, painting,

658
00:39:15,622 --> 00:39:22,896
bromide prints, and traces
are instructions how to convert that

659
00:39:22,996 --> 00:39:27,234
into plates that'll print
in cyan, magenta, yellow, and black,

660
00:39:27,334 --> 00:39:28,802
the four basic colors,

661
00:39:28,902 --> 00:39:35,209
which then mix together
to create a full color page.

662
00:39:35,809 --> 00:39:39,746
That is the kind of thing we did
day in, day out.

663
00:39:42,916 --> 00:39:44,651
Stylistically,
one of the things you'll notice

664
00:39:44,751 --> 00:39:48,989
in the early '80s, '70s advertising is

665
00:39:49,089 --> 00:39:53,427
you saw
a lot of this separate headline, bold,

666
00:39:53,527 --> 00:39:56,163
and you think
about the Volkswagen Lemon ad.

667
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:58,632
You've got the image
and you've got the headline,

668
00:39:58,732 --> 00:40:02,035
and you've got the body copy,
and none of it overlaps.

669
00:40:02,102 --> 00:40:04,137
I mean it's a great concept,

670
00:40:04,238 --> 00:40:07,841
but production-wise it was very easy
to do those ads,

671
00:40:07,941 --> 00:40:09,576
because nothing overlapped.

672
00:40:09,643 --> 00:40:12,079
If you had to send something out
to another place

673
00:40:12,179 --> 00:40:15,582
to be knocked out and turned around,
that was another day!

674
00:40:15,649 --> 00:40:19,453
When I had 20 ads that I had to get out
in two days.

675
00:40:20,687 --> 00:40:23,090
That was it.
It worked.

676
00:40:23,156 --> 00:40:25,893
The style of it, too,
kinda drove a lot of style.

677
00:40:27,127 --> 00:40:32,266
I remember leaving
one of those full-page ads in my car

678
00:40:32,332 --> 00:40:35,402
on a hot summer day,

679
00:40:35,502 --> 00:40:41,074
and it got really hot in there,
and that glue just releases,

680
00:40:41,642 --> 00:40:47,247
and I came back and everything on the page
had slid on the seat,

681
00:40:47,347 --> 00:40:49,616
and my whole layout was gone.

682
00:40:55,789 --> 00:40:58,859
If you thought "stripping"
was a term applied to burlesque,

683
00:40:58,959 --> 00:41:02,229
it can also be used to describe
the trimming and positioning

684
00:41:02,329 --> 00:41:05,065
of the final negative for a plate.

685
00:41:05,899 --> 00:41:10,003
Great care must be exercised
to position the negatives exactly,

686
00:41:10,103 --> 00:41:14,041
for a mistake here can result
in costly waste and spoilage

687
00:41:14,141 --> 00:41:16,343
when the material reaches the pressroom.

688
00:41:16,443 --> 00:41:19,079
You would send all
of the original artwork,

689
00:41:19,179 --> 00:41:23,183
the original photographs
or original illustrations,

690
00:41:23,283 --> 00:41:24,952
and it would go to the printer

691
00:41:25,052 --> 00:41:30,657
who would then have some of those images
shot with a camera

692
00:41:30,757 --> 00:41:34,995
and stripped in to the negative
that shows all the type.

693
00:41:35,095 --> 00:41:40,200
So it was really up to the printer
and the stripper to do a lot of that.

694
00:41:41,235 --> 00:41:43,403
When we used halftones,

695
00:41:43,504 --> 00:41:46,273
they were consisting
out of four different colors:

696
00:41:46,373 --> 00:41:50,444
magenta, cyan, yellow, and key or black.

697
00:41:50,544 --> 00:41:53,847
There were black dots
on see-through material.

698
00:41:53,914 --> 00:41:59,086
But they described the red or the blue
or the yellow.

699
00:41:59,186 --> 00:42:02,823
So when you add 'em up together,
you get the halftones.

700
00:42:02,890 --> 00:42:07,094
So what you have is in the end,
four films completely registered,

701
00:42:07,194 --> 00:42:11,164
completely fitting
on top of each other.

702
00:42:11,265 --> 00:42:14,368
You track them
by putting them all together

703
00:42:14,468 --> 00:42:16,737
and making,
for example, a proof.

704
00:42:18,539 --> 00:42:22,676
Then you copy them on to a light metal,

705
00:42:22,743 --> 00:42:28,482
some kind of alloy with a surface on it
that reacts to the film.

706
00:42:28,582 --> 00:42:31,451
It gets lighted on there.

707
00:42:31,552 --> 00:42:33,453
There are some chemicals on it

708
00:42:33,554 --> 00:42:38,625
which will only print
whatever is on the film.

709
00:42:38,725 --> 00:42:45,332
Once you have a film,
you put it on the metal, onto the alloy,

710
00:42:45,432 --> 00:42:49,136
with the chemicals on it
and from that you print.

711
00:42:49,937 --> 00:42:53,173
They would put it all together
and send back a--

712
00:42:53,273 --> 00:42:56,410
What was called a "blueprint",
which was blue and white.

713
00:42:56,476 --> 00:42:59,746
It was just to review and proofread.

714
00:42:59,847 --> 00:43:03,951
Once that was approved
and you had a sign-off on the "blues",

715
00:43:04,051 --> 00:43:06,787
as we call them,
then the printer would go ahead,

716
00:43:06,887 --> 00:43:08,021
and make the plates,

717
00:43:08,121 --> 00:43:13,160
and send you color proofs
before you approved everything.

718
00:43:13,260 --> 00:43:16,230
At that point,
I usually went to the pressrun

719
00:43:16,330 --> 00:43:19,900
to make sure the color was right,
to make sure the registration was correct.

720
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,304
So it was an extremely
time-consuming process.

721
00:43:30,978 --> 00:43:33,981
Here's a better way to put words on paper.

722
00:43:34,414 --> 00:43:39,620
A remarkable electric typewriter,
the IBM's Electric.

723
00:43:39,686 --> 00:43:43,757
The small shops that are doing forms
and simple stuff,

724
00:43:43,857 --> 00:43:47,394
they start to use the Vari-Typer
to produce the art for that,

725
00:43:47,461 --> 00:43:50,297
small printers,
small typesetting services,

726
00:43:50,397 --> 00:43:51,632
small newspapers.

727
00:43:51,732 --> 00:43:54,868
They don't need photography,
they don't need chemistry.

728
00:43:54,968 --> 00:43:58,805
Everything is done right in the typewriter
and it will justify.

729
00:43:58,872 --> 00:44:02,943
In 1968 IBM came out
with the IBM Composer.

730
00:44:03,043 --> 00:44:06,146
It was a version
of their Selectric typewriter,

731
00:44:06,213 --> 00:44:09,516
with the type element ball,
that could justify.

732
00:44:09,650 --> 00:44:12,719
The problem is
they had very few typefaces.

733
00:44:13,420 --> 00:44:17,658
Other than payroll,
the most dynamic expense that you had was

734
00:44:17,758 --> 00:44:22,663
you had to keep paste with type releases.

735
00:44:22,729 --> 00:44:26,233
The source for most new releases
of typefaces was

736
00:44:26,333 --> 00:44:29,503
the International Typeface Corporation,
ITC.

737
00:44:29,570 --> 00:44:32,673
They would come out with a new typeface
and not just one face.

738
00:44:32,773 --> 00:44:35,475
No, it would come out
in four different weights,

739
00:44:35,576 --> 00:44:38,545
plus italic, plus condensed,

740
00:44:38,645 --> 00:44:42,416
plus italic, plus outlined, ultra-bold,

741
00:44:42,516 --> 00:44:43,550
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

742
00:44:43,650 --> 00:44:46,887
So it would be a total
of about 16 different weights

743
00:44:46,987 --> 00:44:50,257
that you had to buy,
because as soon as they released it,

744
00:44:50,357 --> 00:44:55,162
the designers, wanting to stay hip,
and fresh, and on top of things,

745
00:44:55,262 --> 00:44:58,732
would send in manuscripts spec'ed
in these typefaces.

746
00:44:58,799 --> 00:45:01,168
You had to go out
and get them immediately,

747
00:45:01,268 --> 00:45:04,037
and if you didn't have them,
you weren't gonna get the job.

748
00:45:04,137 --> 00:45:06,440
And it was just that simple.

749
00:45:07,274 --> 00:45:10,844
Making a 2-inch filmstrip
of a really wild typeface

750
00:45:10,911 --> 00:45:12,412
was not a big investment.

751
00:45:12,479 --> 00:45:17,684
So suddenly, there was a huge outbreak
of new type designs

752
00:45:17,784 --> 00:45:18,752
from all over the world.

753
00:45:18,852 --> 00:45:21,021
Dry transfer type, same thing.

754
00:45:21,121 --> 00:45:26,093
Companies like Letraset
did some very unique and unusual designs

755
00:45:26,159 --> 00:45:29,530
that wouldn't have made sense
in any other era.

756
00:45:30,664 --> 00:45:34,101
And what we call a "frisket"
is this master piece of artwork

757
00:45:34,201 --> 00:45:37,838
cut on a piece of Rubylith cut out
with a knife,

758
00:45:37,938 --> 00:45:40,040
so that you have incredible precision
of line

759
00:45:40,140 --> 00:45:43,076
and it's the crispest version
of what would then get reproduced

760
00:45:43,177 --> 00:45:44,044
and softened.

761
00:45:44,144 --> 00:45:45,979
This is how they worked
at Letraset as well.

762
00:45:46,079 --> 00:45:50,117
It wasn't just about making films
for typesetting.

763
00:45:50,851 --> 00:45:52,052
That was a skill in itself,

764
00:45:52,152 --> 00:45:53,987
because your characters
wouldn't have passed muster

765
00:45:54,087 --> 00:45:56,590
unless they're absolutely spot on.

766
00:45:57,124 --> 00:46:02,296
Stencil cutting to us was in some ways
an end in itself

767
00:46:02,396 --> 00:46:05,232
and I think that some of the artworks
with stencil cutting

768
00:46:05,332 --> 00:46:07,634
are literally artworks.

769
00:46:07,701 --> 00:46:09,469
You know, you can put 'em on a wall.

770
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:13,640
But all it was at the time was just
one stage in the pro--

771
00:46:13,707 --> 00:46:14,808
- In the production--
- Yeah.

772
00:46:14,875 --> 00:46:15,742
Process, yeah.

773
00:46:15,843 --> 00:46:18,645
This is just how you got
from something made with a hand

774
00:46:18,745 --> 00:46:22,249
to a photographic master
that you could reproduce.

775
00:46:22,349 --> 00:46:25,085
The company were really very keen

776
00:46:25,185 --> 00:46:28,021
that we should interpret
the typefounder size.

777
00:46:28,121 --> 00:46:29,356
We weren't designing typefaces

778
00:46:29,456 --> 00:46:34,294
that at the time was
interpreting very well-known types.

779
00:46:34,361 --> 00:46:37,197
So we went to the expense
of buying the cast type

780
00:46:37,297 --> 00:46:38,198
from the foundries,

781
00:46:38,298 --> 00:46:42,102
we joined type pi
and so we had a license to do this.

782
00:46:43,103 --> 00:46:47,641
How about a modern, fresh design
with overtones of the now generation?

783
00:46:52,946 --> 00:46:56,884
And after a little while,
Letraset was creating more new faces

784
00:46:56,984 --> 00:47:01,321
and launching new faces
than it was relying upon metal faces.

785
00:47:06,793 --> 00:47:10,964
I mean one of the titles that it was given
was "the liberated letter".

786
00:47:12,266 --> 00:47:15,335
You gotta remember this was
in the '60s and '70s,

787
00:47:15,435 --> 00:47:17,571
when there were
lots of other things going on

788
00:47:17,671 --> 00:47:21,508
associated with design,
such as music, fashion, and so on.

789
00:47:32,119 --> 00:47:35,722
The Letraset typefaces
were great typefaces.

790
00:47:35,822 --> 00:47:39,626
These were now available to everyone
who had a couple of dollars to spend

791
00:47:39,693 --> 00:47:43,630
and didn't know how to set type
or didn't know how to do a mechanical.

792
00:47:43,697 --> 00:47:48,168
Letraset was a product,
and photosetting was a service,

793
00:47:48,268 --> 00:47:49,603
and that was the main difference.

794
00:47:49,703 --> 00:47:55,209
Letraset was cheaper than photosetting,
and it was quick!

795
00:47:55,309 --> 00:47:59,446
We used to think Letraset was
for a professional user,

796
00:47:59,546 --> 00:48:04,351
without realizing that it was
a very democratic product

797
00:48:04,451 --> 00:48:10,757
and students could use it or people
who were not familiar with typography.

798
00:48:10,891 --> 00:48:14,962
We used to stick our noses in the air
if we saw bad typesetting.

799
00:48:15,028 --> 00:48:19,166
But in reality,
it set about a new wave of typography.

800
00:48:19,233 --> 00:48:23,370
To say that
Letraset is an amateur product,

801
00:48:23,437 --> 00:48:25,639
I don't even consider that a criticism.

802
00:48:25,739 --> 00:48:29,776
It's a great democratizing effect
about Letraset that I love.

803
00:48:29,843 --> 00:48:33,847
When you don't have to go
to a third-party vendor to set your type,

804
00:48:33,947 --> 00:48:36,016
when you can just go
to an art supply store

805
00:48:36,116 --> 00:48:41,655
and buy some letters for a few dollars,
you can make a poster for yourself,

806
00:48:41,755 --> 00:48:45,392
you can make a magazine for yourself.

807
00:48:45,459 --> 00:48:50,664
What's incredibly important about Letraset
in type history is that democratization.

808
00:49:01,208 --> 00:49:06,146
And I even see it in ephemera
that came out of fringe communities,

809
00:49:06,246 --> 00:49:08,248
who were able to do things.

810
00:49:08,348 --> 00:49:10,684
You know, you look at
like The Black Panther magazine,

811
00:49:10,751 --> 00:49:14,588
you look at queer publishing,
and all kinds of people

812
00:49:14,688 --> 00:49:16,924
who just had a little bit to work with

813
00:49:17,024 --> 00:49:19,760
or maybe had trouble
finding professional vendors

814
00:49:19,860 --> 00:49:22,696
who would do their work.

815
00:49:22,796 --> 00:49:26,433
The only way to do it was use this methods
and materials:

816
00:49:26,533 --> 00:49:29,570
Letraset, paste-ups, photocopies.

817
00:49:39,780 --> 00:49:44,885
You can divide all phototypesetting
into two worlds: display, big type

818
00:49:44,952 --> 00:49:46,954
or text, small type.

819
00:49:47,020 --> 00:49:49,656
They would deliver strips
of headline material

820
00:49:49,756 --> 00:49:55,128
exactly the way it was done in hot metal
and the designer would paste all that up.

821
00:49:55,195 --> 00:49:57,531
However, with phototypesetting
you could do something

822
00:49:57,631 --> 00:49:59,166
you couldn't do with hot metal.

823
00:49:59,266 --> 00:50:01,635
You could kern them.

824
00:50:01,735 --> 00:50:03,237
One of the pieces of equipment

825
00:50:03,337 --> 00:50:10,377
that I found taught me the most about type
was a Photo Typositor.

826
00:50:10,444 --> 00:50:14,181
You'd position the type
and then you decide to print that letter

827
00:50:14,281 --> 00:50:17,451
and then you would move that
and you'd position the next letter,

828
00:50:17,551 --> 00:50:19,419
one letter at a time.

829
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,590
The chemistry was built in,
so as you were exposing the letters,

830
00:50:23,690 --> 00:50:25,459
they turned black inside the machine.

831
00:50:25,559 --> 00:50:27,127
You looked through a little viewer

832
00:50:27,227 --> 00:50:29,963
and that was reference point
for the next letter.

833
00:50:30,030 --> 00:50:33,734
Every single letter was a unique decision,

834
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,137
"How does this look in relationship
to the previous letter

835
00:50:37,237 --> 00:50:40,307
and how do I think it's gonna look
in relationship to the next letter?"

836
00:50:40,374 --> 00:50:44,611
It allowed you to have tight spacing
and remarkable kerning,

837
00:50:44,678 --> 00:50:48,682
and that's what the designers wanted,
tighter and tighter spacing.

838
00:50:48,749 --> 00:50:52,619
So you look at all the design
from the '60s, and '70s,

839
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,522
the Typositor made it all possible.

840
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:58,392
You could smash type and overlap type,

841
00:50:58,492 --> 00:51:02,462
and so anybody
who was a fan of Herb Lubalin, as I was,

842
00:51:02,563 --> 00:51:05,966
could approximate what Herb was doing.

843
00:51:06,033 --> 00:51:10,504
Because photocomposition allowed
for lenses that zoomed,

844
00:51:10,604 --> 00:51:13,707
instead of fixed focal length
and things like that,

845
00:51:13,807 --> 00:51:20,047
they started to introduce the ability
to set multiple sizes, multiple typefaces,

846
00:51:20,147 --> 00:51:23,717
all on the same piece of paper.

847
00:51:23,784 --> 00:51:27,221
We would sometimes send out lettering
that we distressed.

848
00:51:27,321 --> 00:51:31,825
You know, we'd put a kind of rough edge
on the letter

849
00:51:31,892 --> 00:51:34,194
and the printer would come back
and say, "Oh, by the way,

850
00:51:34,261 --> 00:51:35,362
I've cleaned up your lettering."

851
00:51:35,429 --> 00:51:37,731
And you said, "No, no, no!
It was supposed to be like that!"

852
00:51:37,831 --> 00:51:39,233
And I was actually working
at this local company

853
00:51:39,333 --> 00:51:46,540
when the first punk bands--
and again talking mid to late '70s,

854
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,277
and the printers could not understand
that we wanted things

855
00:51:50,377 --> 00:51:53,647
like a tape that was sticking down
a piece of type.

856
00:51:53,714 --> 00:51:55,549
We wanted the tape left and they would...

857
00:51:55,616 --> 00:51:57,985
So there was always this kind of battle
between printers

858
00:51:58,085 --> 00:52:01,154
who have this sort of
kind of purest notion

859
00:52:01,255 --> 00:52:02,656
that everything should be super clean,

860
00:52:02,756 --> 00:52:07,060
and then designers wanted to experiment
and use odd techniques.

861
00:52:10,731 --> 00:52:14,401
What everyone wanted was to see the page
the way it looked

862
00:52:14,468 --> 00:52:16,069
when it was gonna be printed out.

863
00:52:16,170 --> 00:52:17,271
Tons of errors crept in,

864
00:52:17,371 --> 00:52:19,806
because no one could see
what they were doing.

865
00:52:19,907 --> 00:52:23,210
The big movement was,
"How do I get closer and closer

866
00:52:23,277 --> 00:52:27,614
to seeing what that looks like
before it comes out of the output unit?"

867
00:52:27,714 --> 00:52:31,318
Now there was a comedian at the time--
what was his name?

868
00:52:31,418 --> 00:52:33,520
It'll come to me in a second.

869
00:52:33,620 --> 00:52:34,821
Flip Wilson.

870
00:52:34,922 --> 00:52:38,292
His girlfriend was Geraldine
and he would go into that voice,

871
00:52:38,392 --> 00:52:39,993
"What you see is what you get."

872
00:52:40,093 --> 00:52:41,728
What you see is what you get.

873
00:52:41,795 --> 00:52:48,635
John Seybold liked that line so he said,
"What we need are WYSIWYG displays",

874
00:52:48,735 --> 00:52:51,705
and that's how the term came into being.

875
00:52:53,140 --> 00:52:54,274
When I went to Atex

876
00:52:54,341 --> 00:52:58,445
and we had a team working
on the development

877
00:52:58,545 --> 00:53:00,781
of a graphics display terminal...

878
00:53:04,518 --> 00:53:08,422
There's a big piece of hardware,
size of a desk basically,

879
00:53:08,522 --> 00:53:11,692
because again,
the components had not been miniaturized.

880
00:53:12,726 --> 00:53:17,531
As time went on, the technology
of the phototypesetting machines changed

881
00:53:17,631 --> 00:53:22,369
from electromechanical,
using lenses and light,

882
00:53:22,469 --> 00:53:24,204
to cathode ray tubes.

883
00:53:24,304 --> 00:53:26,940
A synchronized movie camera
automatically photographs

884
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:28,542
the fast moving images

885
00:53:28,642 --> 00:53:32,446
as they're plotted and drawn
on the face of a cathode ray tube.

886
00:53:32,546 --> 00:53:34,581
The problem is there were no frontends

887
00:53:34,681 --> 00:53:37,184
that could make a page in position
to drive them.

888
00:53:37,284 --> 00:53:39,720
That was the thing
that was missing from the industry.

889
00:53:40,587 --> 00:53:44,658
The Seybold Conferences started
in the cold-type era

890
00:53:44,758 --> 00:53:50,264
when computer technology
first started driving photocomposition.

891
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,236
Seybold Conferences was
where companies went

892
00:53:56,336 --> 00:53:57,871
to make big buying decisions

893
00:53:57,971 --> 00:54:00,240
about what technology
they were gonna invest in,

894
00:54:00,340 --> 00:54:03,177
and in those days, an investment was big.

895
00:54:05,212 --> 00:54:09,750
There were like 300 different machines
that were available at that time,

896
00:54:09,850 --> 00:54:11,852
specifically for this industry.

897
00:54:13,153 --> 00:54:15,622
And newspapers didn't
wanna give up their technology

898
00:54:15,722 --> 00:54:17,791
and invest in something very new.

899
00:54:17,858 --> 00:54:22,095
Many of the bigger papers hung on
until the bitter end.

900
00:54:22,196 --> 00:54:24,031
Well, take the New York Times.

901
00:54:24,131 --> 00:54:28,302
When I went over to the New York Times,
I went straight into hot type.

902
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:32,739
In fact,
I worked on the very last hot-metal page

903
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:34,408
at the New York Times.

904
00:54:34,508 --> 00:54:38,879
This New York Times mirror image in lead,
of tomorrow's dateline,

905
00:54:38,946 --> 00:54:44,351
reads backwards as Sunday, July 2nd, 1978.

906
00:54:44,451 --> 00:54:49,790
It was the last night
when the last page was done in hot metal.

907
00:54:49,890 --> 00:54:55,929
For me having grown up with photosetting,
it was just a jump back into time.

908
00:54:56,029 --> 00:54:59,166
It marks the last day
of an age-old method of printing

909
00:54:59,266 --> 00:55:01,201
in this composing room.

910
00:55:01,268 --> 00:55:05,038
Using 535Â° molten lead,

911
00:55:05,105 --> 00:55:10,010
it set solid lines
of type called "hot type".

912
00:55:10,110 --> 00:55:12,646
This worker chalks up his sentiments.

913
00:55:18,952 --> 00:55:22,256
I remember the day that they got rid
of almost all the linotypes

914
00:55:22,356 --> 00:55:28,028
that were sitting up against the wall,
just dead, waiting to go to Japan.

915
00:55:28,262 --> 00:55:32,266
The systems they went to,
had to change radically.

916
00:55:33,233 --> 00:55:37,037
Switches and buttons, at a touch, bring us

917
00:55:37,104 --> 00:55:41,041
into an ever-advancing world
of automation, computerization,

918
00:55:41,241 --> 00:55:43,210
and programmed electron flow.

919
00:55:43,277 --> 00:55:47,281
It was a huge investment
and we would buy things

920
00:55:47,381 --> 00:55:50,017
that were immediately turned obsolete.

921
00:55:50,117 --> 00:55:55,956
So we had two Scitex machines,
we had one still in a box, a huge box,

922
00:55:56,056 --> 00:55:59,960
and one that was set up to be used.

923
00:56:00,060 --> 00:56:02,362
And Scitex was an old-school computer.

924
00:56:02,462 --> 00:56:04,898
I mean
it literally filled a room this big.

925
00:56:04,998 --> 00:56:07,401
You've seen them in science-fiction films
in the '60s.

926
00:56:07,501 --> 00:56:11,338
The banks of cabinets down one wall
with the spinning tape,

927
00:56:11,438 --> 00:56:13,841
that was the system they used.

928
00:56:13,907 --> 00:56:16,577
And I found it very interesting,
because...

929
00:56:17,344 --> 00:56:21,148
wouldn't it be great if all those things
would set in the one box?

930
00:56:25,752 --> 00:56:28,922
It all happened in 1984, 1985.

931
00:56:29,022 --> 00:56:31,425
We'd written up
a basic functional specification

932
00:56:31,525 --> 00:56:34,862
for a page-layout type of device.

933
00:56:34,962 --> 00:56:39,233
We were actually using IBM PCs
with very rudimentary graphic cards.

934
00:56:39,333 --> 00:56:41,201
It was going to be a challenge

935
00:56:41,301 --> 00:56:44,304
'cause we really didn't see
how we were going to do it.

936
00:56:44,404 --> 00:56:47,908
All of the images you're about to see
on the large screen

937
00:56:48,008 --> 00:56:51,378
will be generated by what's in that bag.

938
00:56:54,214 --> 00:56:56,817
I can still remember this, we were working
in a little studio apartment

939
00:56:56,917 --> 00:56:59,520
down in the Pike Place Market in Seattle.

940
00:56:59,620 --> 00:57:01,688
An Apple employee came

941
00:57:01,755 --> 00:57:06,827
and brought in two prototype Macintoshes
out of the trunk of his car,

942
00:57:06,927 --> 00:57:10,130
and he said, "I think you guys need
to play with these things."

943
00:57:10,831 --> 00:57:13,934
And that was the beginning
of the desktop publishing age.

944
00:57:28,615 --> 00:57:31,051
Hello, I am Macintosh.

945
00:57:31,118 --> 00:57:35,455
It sure is great to get out of that bag.

946
00:57:35,556 --> 00:57:38,792
On Sunday morning, a very good friend
of mine knocked on the door

947
00:57:38,859 --> 00:57:41,895
and said, "Greiman, you're gonna get up
and go see this computer."

948
00:57:41,962 --> 00:57:44,531
And I was like, "I am not
getting out of bed to see a computer."

949
00:57:44,598 --> 00:57:45,465
And he goes, "Yes, you are."

950
00:57:45,566 --> 00:57:46,466
And I was like, "Where are we going?"

951
00:57:46,567 --> 00:57:48,635
He's like, "Macy's department store."

952
00:57:48,735 --> 00:57:53,040
So I saw my first Mac
at Macy's department store.

953
00:57:53,140 --> 00:57:56,810
And right now, we'll let you take one out
for a test drive.

954
00:57:56,910 --> 00:57:59,546
I stood in line you know,
for a few minutes to use it

955
00:57:59,646 --> 00:58:03,383
and then after a while,
Harry grabbed me and just said,

956
00:58:03,483 --> 00:58:06,854
"There's like a line out the door
people wanting to use this thing."

957
00:58:06,954 --> 00:58:08,822
And I said, "What is this thing?"

958
00:58:08,922 --> 00:58:11,258
So I bought one very early on,

959
00:58:11,925 --> 00:58:14,294
like a moth to the flame.

960
00:58:15,028 --> 00:58:17,497
What were the steps that led us
to this kind of a user interface

961
00:58:17,598 --> 00:58:19,066
that we're dealing with right now?

962
00:58:19,132 --> 00:58:21,168
We had this vision of workstations

963
00:58:21,268 --> 00:58:23,704
that had high-resolution bitmap graphics
and mice,

964
00:58:23,804 --> 00:58:25,239
and networks tying them together,

965
00:58:25,339 --> 00:58:29,009
and laser printers and file servers,
and just what you see beginning to happen.

966
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:31,678
So maybe in someday we're gonna have
one of these things in our home,

967
00:58:31,778 --> 00:58:34,248
and you can write a letter to grandma,
and have a picture of the kids there.

968
00:58:34,348 --> 00:58:35,682
Yeah, sure, sure.

969
00:58:35,782 --> 00:58:38,986
And I think that's at the base
of what this whole revolution is about.

970
00:58:39,086 --> 00:58:40,787
Everybody can use it.

971
00:58:41,788 --> 00:58:44,992
The first people who got interested
in desktop publishing

972
00:58:45,058 --> 00:58:48,529
were not traditional publishers
or graphic artists.

973
00:58:48,629 --> 00:58:49,596
Really.

974
00:58:49,696 --> 00:58:52,366
They were computer people who said,
"Oh wow, cool!

975
00:58:52,466 --> 00:58:55,135
Now I can do graphics
and I can do bitmaps."

976
00:58:55,235 --> 00:58:59,439
And so the early folks
in that field were not really

977
00:58:59,540 --> 00:59:01,775
the traditional people saying,
"Oh, this is cool.

978
00:59:01,875 --> 00:59:02,910
I'm gonna make this."

979
00:59:03,010 --> 00:59:04,444
There were a few that recognized it,

980
00:59:04,545 --> 00:59:07,981
but mostly
they were kinda geeky computer people.

981
00:59:08,048 --> 00:59:09,850
It took a while.

982
00:59:10,884 --> 00:59:12,619
Coming from the Swiss training,

983
00:59:12,719 --> 00:59:17,391
learning about grids,
learning kind of the discipline of design,

984
00:59:17,491 --> 00:59:20,194
the Mac was like a great liberator

985
00:59:20,260 --> 00:59:23,730
of not only just
what you could create with your mind,

986
00:59:23,830 --> 00:59:25,999
because
it would just not do what you wanted

987
00:59:26,099 --> 00:59:28,602
or it had its own kind of thinking.

988
00:59:28,702 --> 00:59:29,670
And then you'd go, "Well, wait a minute.

989
00:59:29,770 --> 00:59:32,039
Actually, that's better
than what I was thinking."

990
00:59:32,673 --> 00:59:34,641
There were sometimes
we'd shoot off the monitor,

991
00:59:34,741 --> 00:59:37,311
then we'd print it out,
then I'd do something else to it,

992
00:59:37,411 --> 00:59:40,948
then you know, scan it,
get it back into the computer,

993
00:59:41,048 --> 00:59:42,783
and you know, let it be.

994
00:59:42,883 --> 00:59:44,151
I mean it was just crazy.

995
00:59:44,218 --> 00:59:49,089
So I got very interested
in starting with an idea

996
00:59:49,189 --> 00:59:52,326
and then just
letting the tool lead the way,

997
00:59:52,392 --> 00:59:56,797
kind of co-creating or co-thinking
with the technology.

998
00:59:57,397 --> 01:00:02,469
First when I was in San Francisco,
that was where I landed 1979,

999
01:00:02,569 --> 01:00:07,040
I had no idea that the epicenter
of design was moving

1000
01:00:07,140 --> 01:00:09,943
from New York or the East Coast
to the West Coast.

1001
01:00:10,711 --> 01:00:13,514
And in fact at the time,
there was the California New Wave,

1002
01:00:13,580 --> 01:00:15,649
they called it "Nuevo Wavo",

1003
01:00:15,749 --> 01:00:21,488
and it was in keeping with the magazine
that April was involved in, WET magazine.

1004
01:00:23,924 --> 01:00:27,694
I was on the national board
of the American Institute of Graphic Arts,

1005
01:00:27,794 --> 01:00:29,363
AIGA,

1006
01:00:29,429 --> 01:00:32,900
and in one meeting the elder
New York-established

1007
01:00:32,999 --> 01:00:37,271
male graphic designers,
who were also on the board at that time,

1008
01:00:37,337 --> 01:00:38,805
something came up about computers,

1009
01:00:38,906 --> 01:00:40,607
and they just said it was
like the worst thing

1010
01:00:40,707 --> 01:00:42,576
that had ever happened to the profession

1011
01:00:42,676 --> 01:00:44,611
and that they would stick
with their pencils.

1012
01:00:44,711 --> 01:00:47,181
So there was probably a quote out there
somewhere from me

1013
01:00:47,281 --> 01:00:49,750
that the computer's just another pencil.

1014
01:00:49,816 --> 01:00:52,786
That was also
not a very popular remark I made.

1015
01:00:52,886 --> 01:00:56,590
And of course, the loudest
negative voices were in New York.

1016
01:00:56,657 --> 01:00:59,293
In a way, this was a West-Coast tool

1017
01:00:59,393 --> 01:01:02,829
and a West Coast kind of bunch
of youngsters.

1018
01:01:04,631 --> 01:01:07,234
Every technology,
that's ever been introduced,

1019
01:01:07,334 --> 01:01:08,702
has met the complaint,

1020
01:01:08,802 --> 01:01:11,572
"It's not the quality
of the previous technology."

1021
01:01:11,672 --> 01:01:15,475
And yet it goes on
to replace the previous technology.

1022
01:01:15,542 --> 01:01:19,346
And if you ask me to this day
what quality is, I have no idea.

1023
01:01:19,446 --> 01:01:22,082
It's in the mind of the beholder.

1024
01:01:22,749 --> 01:01:26,353
The Apple Macintosh has received
an unheard of kind of notoriety.

1025
01:01:26,453 --> 01:01:30,190
Our commentator Paul Schindler
has some thoughts on Apple's media image.

1026
01:01:31,725 --> 01:01:33,193
The two Macs in this world,

1027
01:01:33,293 --> 01:01:35,729
the Apple Macintosh
and the MacDonald's Big Mac,

1028
01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:37,030
have a lot in common.

1029
01:01:37,130 --> 01:01:40,667
They're both over advertised shiny boxes
whose contents disappoint.

1030
01:01:40,734 --> 01:01:43,804
Apple wants the Macintosh
to be taken seriously in the office,

1031
01:01:43,904 --> 01:01:46,707
and I'm sorry, but I just don't think
that's ever gonna happen.

1032
01:01:46,773 --> 01:01:49,109
The machine is wonderful, but it's flawed.

1033
01:01:49,209 --> 01:01:52,212
It's too expensive, it isn't fast enough,
and it's in black and white.

1034
01:01:52,312 --> 01:01:54,147
I just don't get it.

1035
01:01:55,215 --> 01:01:56,483
I did what every person

1036
01:01:56,583 --> 01:01:59,486
that buys a computer
for the first time does.

1037
01:01:59,586 --> 01:02:02,422
They just try not to see it in the room,

1038
01:02:02,523 --> 01:02:05,626
and walk around it,
and ignore it as long as you can.

1039
01:02:06,393 --> 01:02:11,164
I remember that first time
with that Macintosh,

1040
01:02:11,231 --> 01:02:17,404
it was like when Spiderman got bit
by the radioactive spider,

1041
01:02:17,504 --> 01:02:21,341
he was like, "Oh my God,
I feel pretty powerful here!"

1042
01:02:21,942 --> 01:02:30,050
Also still that insecure uncertainty of...

1043
01:02:32,686 --> 01:02:34,922
..."Is this art?

1044
01:02:36,623 --> 01:02:38,559
Does it exist?

1045
01:02:38,659 --> 01:02:40,060
What should I do with--" you know,

1046
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,763
"how can I make sure
that this is really--"

1047
01:02:42,863 --> 01:02:45,098
In the beginning,
I couldn't get used to it,

1048
01:02:45,165 --> 01:02:54,041
just the idea jumping from tactile art
on your drawing board to...

1049
01:02:57,611 --> 01:02:59,913
...a magic trick.

1050
01:03:00,013 --> 01:03:03,550
The first time I encountered the Apple Mac
was at college,

1051
01:03:03,617 --> 01:03:05,085
yeah, Manchester Poly.

1052
01:03:05,152 --> 01:03:09,489
They acquired,
I think it was two Macintosh Pluses,

1053
01:03:09,590 --> 01:03:12,226
and this would be 1985.

1054
01:03:12,326 --> 01:03:16,363
Not that many people were interested,
so we just signed up

1055
01:03:16,463 --> 01:03:18,632
for every available slot you know,
and I just--

1056
01:03:18,699 --> 01:03:22,769
I was in that room pretty much
as often as I could be.

1057
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:26,740
Yeah.

1058
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:27,774
You just plotted--

1059
01:03:27,875 --> 01:03:29,943
You know, the first time I used a Mac,

1060
01:03:30,043 --> 01:03:33,413
and although you thought you were typing
in Times Roman or Helvetica,

1061
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,417
when you output,
it was in the days prior to EPS,

1062
01:03:37,518 --> 01:03:39,520
so you didn't get these nice,
clean curves.

1063
01:03:39,620 --> 01:03:42,589
You got this bitmapped look,
whether you wanted it or not,

1064
01:03:42,689 --> 01:03:44,191
and I loved that.

1065
01:03:46,927 --> 01:03:50,497
Nobody could accept the quality
of pixelized type

1066
01:03:50,597 --> 01:03:55,702
that was, you know,
a seasoned profession at that time.

1067
01:03:55,769 --> 01:03:57,538
We were a little cautious

1068
01:03:57,638 --> 01:04:01,241
when we introduced a computer
for the first time.

1069
01:04:01,308 --> 01:04:07,481
We wanted to get to know it

1070
01:04:07,548 --> 01:04:11,785
before we committed ourselves
to too much work using it.

1071
01:04:11,852 --> 01:04:16,089
And in the beginning,
we used it to do typesetting.

1072
01:04:17,090 --> 01:04:18,258
- We can't tell--
- Yeah.

1073
01:04:18,358 --> 01:04:20,994
That the word "manager" is in Helvetica
and the rest is in Times,

1074
01:04:21,061 --> 01:04:23,230
because the screen representation
is so poor.

1075
01:04:23,297 --> 01:04:25,699
When you print this,
things are even worse.

1076
01:04:25,799 --> 01:04:27,401
On a dot matrix printer, for example,

1077
01:04:27,501 --> 01:04:29,837
things were still jaggy
or entirely the wrong size

1078
01:04:29,937 --> 01:04:31,171
- as you can see on the screen--
- Yeah, yeah.

1079
01:04:31,271 --> 01:04:32,539
The top line is much larger.

1080
01:04:32,639 --> 01:04:34,441
While the impact
of electronic publishing

1081
01:04:34,541 --> 01:04:37,144
has just begun in the professional world,

1082
01:04:37,244 --> 01:04:40,881
it's easy to see its appeal
to individual publishers.

1083
01:04:40,981 --> 01:04:44,318
It's relatively inexpensive and fast.

1084
01:04:44,418 --> 01:04:47,588
The print quality,
while not yet up to phototypesetting,

1085
01:04:47,688 --> 01:04:49,990
is fine for smaller jobs,

1086
01:04:50,090 --> 01:04:54,428
but best of all desktop publishing
puts the power of the printed word

1087
01:04:54,528 --> 01:04:56,530
within the reach of everyone.

1088
01:04:56,597 --> 01:05:01,735
I remember feeling
like I was learning to walk again

1089
01:05:01,835 --> 01:05:05,172
for the first time
trying to use this mouse,

1090
01:05:05,272 --> 01:05:07,608
and after a while I wanted
to rip the thing out of the computer,

1091
01:05:07,708 --> 01:05:08,742
and toss it across the room,

1092
01:05:08,842 --> 01:05:12,045
and go back to typing
you know, bell, star, semicolon,

1093
01:05:12,145 --> 01:05:15,883
and just typing in code-based commands.

1094
01:05:15,949 --> 01:05:18,519
But it was coming
and we had to deal with it,

1095
01:05:18,619 --> 01:05:20,587
and deal with it we did.

1096
01:05:20,654 --> 01:05:23,257
People's desire to communicate

1097
01:05:23,357 --> 01:05:26,793
overrode the technology
and limitations of the time,

1098
01:05:26,894 --> 01:05:29,329
and I always thought
that was a good thing.

1099
01:05:31,865 --> 01:05:36,970
Everyone was trying to learn more
about how the computers behaved,

1100
01:05:37,070 --> 01:05:40,340
because they clearly were a timesaver.

1101
01:05:40,407 --> 01:05:44,745
Everyone's topic of discussion was,
"I've printed out a piece of paper.

1102
01:05:44,845 --> 01:05:49,116
Now what do I do with it to make a comp
or to make my mechanical?"

1103
01:05:50,584 --> 01:05:55,022
While the computer came out in 1984,
there were only three programs on it.

1104
01:05:55,088 --> 01:05:57,357
There was MacDraw, MacWrite, and MacPaint.

1105
01:05:57,457 --> 01:06:01,895
And so you know we would use MacWrite
in order to just do some typesetting.

1106
01:06:01,962 --> 01:06:05,199
Go to the computer lab you know,
set your type, print it out,

1107
01:06:05,299 --> 01:06:07,868
take it upstairs to the studio
you know, cut out the letters,

1108
01:06:07,968 --> 01:06:11,205
see what you need, and then if you--
none of those work, then take it down--

1109
01:06:11,305 --> 01:06:15,609
Go downstairs again you know,
reprint it out, and then cut it up,

1110
01:06:15,709 --> 01:06:16,743
and lay it out.

1111
01:06:16,844 --> 01:06:18,946
You know,
do whatever you have to do with it.

1112
01:06:19,012 --> 01:06:23,584
Everyone is still in this middle period
of introducing digital tools,

1113
01:06:23,684 --> 01:06:27,120
but the production methods
were still all analog

1114
01:06:27,221 --> 01:06:30,524
and assuming analog means of reproduction.

1115
01:06:30,591 --> 01:06:37,197
It was in this kind of transitional period
of some pre-digitals, some digital--

1116
01:06:37,297 --> 01:06:38,165
I'm not sure.

1117
01:06:38,265 --> 01:06:40,567
It's like what'd you call that period,

1118
01:06:40,667 --> 01:06:45,072
as sort of
a hybrid production environment.

1119
01:06:45,138 --> 01:06:48,342
We didn't really recognize it as such
at the time

1120
01:06:48,442 --> 01:06:51,879
that being taught
two different languages simultaneously

1121
01:06:51,945 --> 01:06:56,083
had a mixed gouache
with super precise tolerances,

1122
01:06:56,149 --> 01:06:59,152
but also had a, I don't-- layout, a page,

1123
01:06:59,253 --> 01:07:02,122
and get it to come out
of an imagesetter.

1124
01:07:02,189 --> 01:07:03,891
I drew up these templates

1125
01:07:03,957 --> 01:07:07,928
and then I would output 200%
or 300%, 400%, whatever it was,

1126
01:07:07,995 --> 01:07:09,229
a detailed option.

1127
01:07:09,329 --> 01:07:11,765
So you didn't just stick 'em together
with magic tape,

1128
01:07:11,865 --> 01:07:14,635
so that you know,
the artworks would then be quite big.

1129
01:07:15,102 --> 01:07:19,940
Sometimes, we'd positioned stuff
with you know, extra PMTs or photocopies,

1130
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,875
whatever we could get our hands on

1131
01:07:21,942 --> 01:07:25,245
and then that would be put
onto the camera, PMT camera,

1132
01:07:25,312 --> 01:07:27,114
and reduced down to size.

1133
01:07:27,181 --> 01:07:29,783
You know, the type would come out
really nice and crisp.

1134
01:07:29,883 --> 01:07:31,985
Now when the Macintosh first came out
a little over a year ago,

1135
01:07:32,085 --> 01:07:34,054
the big question was,
"Where is the software

1136
01:07:34,154 --> 01:07:35,656
and will there be software?"

1137
01:07:35,756 --> 01:07:38,759
Well, the answer, now that we're a year
into this, is certainly "yes",

1138
01:07:38,859 --> 01:07:40,861
Joining us now in the studio
is Paul Brainerd,

1139
01:07:40,961 --> 01:07:42,462
the president of Aldus Corporation,

1140
01:07:42,563 --> 01:07:44,898
the man who invented the word
"desktop publishing",

1141
01:07:44,998 --> 01:07:47,334
and the guy who also brought us
the product "PageMaker".

1142
01:07:47,434 --> 01:07:49,236
It's like a three-legged stool.

1143
01:07:49,336 --> 01:07:51,705
There was Adobe,
there was Aldus, and there was Apple.

1144
01:07:51,772 --> 01:07:53,440
You took one away, it'd fall over.

1145
01:07:53,540 --> 01:07:56,476
American entrepreneurs' dream is
to have the right product

1146
01:07:56,577 --> 01:08:00,180
at the right time
with all the right customers lined up.

1147
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,649
Well, that's exactly what happened here
at Adobe Systems.

1148
01:08:02,749 --> 01:08:04,785
In January of 1985,

1149
01:08:04,885 --> 01:08:07,421
when Apple unveiled
its LaserWriter printer.

1150
01:08:07,521 --> 01:08:10,224
Historically,
what really happened here was

1151
01:08:10,324 --> 01:08:13,594
I saw the LaserWriter
about nine months before it's produced

1152
01:08:13,694 --> 01:08:16,964
and said, "This is gonna turn
the whole world upside down."

1153
01:08:17,064 --> 01:08:20,000
I went to Paul Brainerd and said,
"This is what you oughta be working on."

1154
01:08:20,100 --> 01:08:23,237
"But you need to go talk to John Warnock
at Adobe

1155
01:08:23,337 --> 01:08:26,073
and you need to go talk to Apple."

1156
01:08:26,740 --> 01:08:31,512
When I visited Adobe they had a prototype,
it was to become the LaserWriter,

1157
01:08:31,812 --> 01:08:35,782
could actually output at high resolution
to meet the needs

1158
01:08:35,883 --> 01:08:38,485
of the professional graphics world.

1159
01:08:38,585 --> 01:08:41,755
And so the gap between LaserWriters

1160
01:08:41,855 --> 01:08:45,359
and the professional typesetting
had been closed,

1161
01:08:45,425 --> 01:08:47,828
and in that moment I knew

1162
01:08:48,262 --> 01:08:50,264
a revolution was coming.

1163
01:08:51,198 --> 01:08:53,200
Paul, if I go out
and buy a desktop publishing package,

1164
01:08:53,267 --> 01:08:54,434
what can I do with it?

1165
01:08:54,501 --> 01:08:56,703
What it allows you to do
is use your personal computer

1166
01:08:56,770 --> 01:09:00,174
to integrate text in graphics,
and put it together on a page,

1167
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:01,975
and print it out on a laser printer,

1168
01:09:02,042 --> 01:09:04,111
you get a high-quality result
that then can be reproduced

1169
01:09:04,211 --> 01:09:07,214
on an office copying machine
or at your local print shop.

1170
01:09:07,314 --> 01:09:13,020
Most of the PageMaker interface,
and dialogues, and the way it works,

1171
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,589
the basic functions came
from my experience

1172
01:09:15,656 --> 01:09:19,459
of having done paste-up myself
with a razor blade or X-ACTO knife.

1173
01:09:19,526 --> 01:09:22,996
This kind of postscript interface
could be used in a sense to--

1174
01:09:23,063 --> 01:09:25,365
Or maybe even encroach
in the whole typesetting industry.

1175
01:09:25,432 --> 01:09:26,333
Is that really true?

1176
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:27,467
Absolutely.

1177
01:09:27,568 --> 01:09:31,038
Postscript was designed
with the graphic arts industry in mind.

1178
01:09:31,104 --> 01:09:34,975
In other words, it does do halftones,
it does do full typefaces, ligatures,

1179
01:09:35,075 --> 01:09:36,210
kerning all the words

1180
01:09:36,310 --> 01:09:38,946
that the typesetting industry's been
familiar with.

1181
01:09:39,012 --> 01:09:41,248
I look at work done in that period,

1182
01:09:41,348 --> 01:09:45,552
I'm appalled at the amateurism
of some of the typesetting.

1183
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:50,791
We were very meticulous,

1184
01:09:50,858 --> 01:09:53,393
but we made mistakes.

1185
01:09:54,761 --> 01:09:57,264
And when we did, I thought,
"Oh God, I wish we had--

1186
01:09:57,364 --> 01:10:02,202
still got some really
skilled types compositors to do this job.

1187
01:10:02,302 --> 01:10:04,071
We are amateurs."

1188
01:10:04,171 --> 01:10:06,974
And that was the way it was
for some 10 years.

1189
01:10:07,341 --> 01:10:09,977
However, now we've got a hang of it.

1190
01:10:10,043 --> 01:10:15,315
And I remember specifically that leap
where we finally figured out

1191
01:10:15,415 --> 01:10:19,820
that we could compose it on the screen
and it could all come out as one.

1192
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:24,091
And it was like the heavens parted
and the angels started to sing.

1193
01:10:24,191 --> 01:10:26,760
It was like
we didn't look back after that.

1194
01:10:26,827 --> 01:10:29,997
There was this point
and I was at Dark Horse Comics

1195
01:10:30,097 --> 01:10:33,767
where we had to tell the whole staff
that they could no longer paste-up.

1196
01:10:33,867 --> 01:10:35,936
They had to do it on the computer.

1197
01:10:37,437 --> 01:10:41,074
In the early '80s,
you saw a lot of this whole movement

1198
01:10:41,175 --> 01:10:47,080
of stuff just being collaged all together,
because you finally could.

1199
01:10:47,848 --> 01:10:50,050
Here's what happened next.

1200
01:10:50,150 --> 01:10:54,254
Once we had the ability to use a laser
to expose an entire page

1201
01:10:54,354 --> 01:10:58,559
with everything on it on film,
why did we have to have film?

1202
01:10:58,659 --> 01:11:00,360
Why not have a plate?

1203
01:11:00,460 --> 01:11:05,699
And so now the platesetters were born
and computer-to-plate or CTP came about.

1204
01:11:05,799 --> 01:11:08,135
So it was a natural evolution.

1205
01:11:08,235 --> 01:11:11,905
It only took 30 years,
but we went from phototypesetting,

1206
01:11:12,005 --> 01:11:16,643
to image setting, to plate setting,
and of course now digital printing.

1207
01:11:17,978 --> 01:11:20,714
You can't see the forest
for the trees sometimes, you know?

1208
01:11:20,781 --> 01:11:22,349
I mean looking back you can say,

1209
01:11:22,449 --> 01:11:27,054
"Wow, this is the biggest democratization
of typography, media, and technology

1210
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:30,023
since Gutenberg invented
the printing press."

1211
01:11:30,257 --> 01:11:31,558
Hands down.

1212
01:11:34,027 --> 01:11:40,801
This process that for centuries had been
a full-scale industrial endeavor,

1213
01:11:40,901 --> 01:11:42,703
in one way or another you know?

1214
01:11:42,803 --> 01:11:44,238
It's carving punches by hand

1215
01:11:44,338 --> 01:11:49,476
or engraving matrices
with intricate machinery,

1216
01:11:49,576 --> 01:11:51,178
all that was done with.

1217
01:11:51,278 --> 01:11:55,249
You could actually design
a typeface speculatively.

1218
01:11:55,315 --> 01:12:00,053
That was a really new idea
and it took me some number of times

1219
01:12:00,153 --> 01:12:05,325
to explain that you could actually
you know, design a typeface on a Larke.

1220
01:12:07,928 --> 01:12:13,200
The type publishing process felt
like a closed shop really,

1221
01:12:13,267 --> 01:12:15,435
and I remember that process,
'cause I was there at the time

1222
01:12:15,536 --> 01:12:21,375
and we would draw-- you know,
we would be drawing quite big letterforms

1223
01:12:21,441 --> 01:12:22,442
and you would send it off to them

1224
01:12:22,543 --> 01:12:25,579
and then somehow it would be made
into a useable typeface

1225
01:12:25,679 --> 01:12:29,416
that could be phototypesetted,
but that process was just--

1226
01:12:29,516 --> 01:12:31,351
We had no idea how that happened.

1227
01:12:31,451 --> 01:12:33,353
It was a closed shop in that respect.

1228
01:12:33,420 --> 01:12:37,758
So of course when Fontographer came out,
it blew that thing wide open

1229
01:12:37,858 --> 01:12:42,863
and enabled you know, anyone
with any inkling and desire

1230
01:12:42,963 --> 01:12:44,998
to make a typeface.

1231
01:12:46,066 --> 01:12:49,303
The Emigre couple, Rudy and Zuzana,

1232
01:12:49,403 --> 01:12:53,941
came from a great tradition and education
in typography,

1233
01:12:54,041 --> 01:12:58,378
and they were also you know, I think,
one of the most important forces

1234
01:12:58,478 --> 01:13:02,850
in really making type image you know,
so it was no longer

1235
01:13:02,950 --> 01:13:06,720
that you know there is the beautiful type
at the bottom and then there is the image.

1236
01:13:06,820 --> 01:13:10,858
The type became the image,
and type became really kind of editorial,

1237
01:13:10,958 --> 01:13:14,895
and it could be the main message you know,
and it could have a real personality.

1238
01:13:14,995 --> 01:13:19,633
It could have many voices, it could--
it just became so expressive.

1239
01:13:19,733 --> 01:13:21,101
"The Emigre's doing this.

1240
01:13:21,201 --> 01:13:23,203
They have a magazine,
they are selling fonts.

1241
01:13:23,303 --> 01:13:27,140
Hey, maybe that'll work
to support our magazine habit."

1242
01:13:30,544 --> 01:13:34,214
This is the font--
the first one that I did, this one Block.

1243
01:13:34,281 --> 01:13:39,419
And then what I remember the kinda really
wacky one was...

1244
01:13:40,420 --> 01:13:42,322
Block Extra,

1245
01:13:42,422 --> 01:13:44,625
which people complained couldn't read.

1246
01:13:52,999 --> 01:13:56,603
Steven Heller wrote famously
the article, "Cult of the Ugly."

1247
01:13:56,703 --> 01:13:59,706
You know, there was Massimo Vignelli,

1248
01:13:59,806 --> 01:14:02,676
called it "the blight
on the clean grid of modernity",

1249
01:14:02,776 --> 01:14:08,015
which I quoted in the magazine.

1250
01:14:08,148 --> 01:14:12,119
I have four favorite text faces

1251
01:14:12,219 --> 01:14:16,390
and about ten favorite display faces.

1252
01:14:16,490 --> 01:14:18,792
I don't want any more.

1253
01:14:18,892 --> 01:14:21,662
I don't want to get on with a job knowing

1254
01:14:21,728 --> 01:14:26,600
that I'm going to be using
standard typeface equipment.

1255
01:14:27,034 --> 01:14:31,672
I think the present obsession
with designing new display fonts,

1256
01:14:31,772 --> 01:14:34,608
for example, is absolutely absurd.

1257
01:14:34,708 --> 01:14:36,743
I take no part in it.

1258
01:14:36,810 --> 01:14:41,014
I have been responsible
for designing some alphabets,

1259
01:14:41,181 --> 01:14:42,983
but very few.

1260
01:14:43,050 --> 01:14:46,854
We have all we need in the way
of typefaces, more than we need.

1261
01:14:49,756 --> 01:14:51,959
Well, there's always something lost
you know, right?

1262
01:14:52,059 --> 01:14:53,961
I mean that the concept from McLuhan,
right?

1263
01:14:54,027 --> 01:14:59,666
Every extension also produces
an amputation of some kind.

1264
01:14:59,733 --> 01:15:01,802
So I guess the question just becomes like,

1265
01:15:01,902 --> 01:15:04,671
"Is the extension worth the amputation?"
you know?

1266
01:15:06,406 --> 01:15:09,576
"Do you think anything is lost and--"

1267
01:15:09,643 --> 01:15:11,011
Yes, you know?

1268
01:15:11,111 --> 01:15:19,086
It's the transmission of ideas, the brain,
to the hand, to the fingers,

1269
01:15:19,186 --> 01:15:23,156
and that motor skill you know,
to move your hand--

1270
01:15:23,257 --> 01:15:25,659
I mean now of course
it's mostly wrist movement,

1271
01:15:25,726 --> 01:15:30,864
the fact that one is able to you know do
sweeping movements like this,

1272
01:15:30,964 --> 01:15:33,634
lifting acetate, cutting, you know?

1273
01:15:33,734 --> 01:15:36,203
As I said, my de--
like look at my work area.

1274
01:15:36,303 --> 01:15:37,905
How many inches is this?

1275
01:15:37,971 --> 01:15:40,207
Whereas,
when I was doing these mechanicals,

1276
01:15:40,307 --> 01:15:42,576
I had to have the whole table clear.

1277
01:15:42,676 --> 01:15:45,212
So I could like move up and down,
stand up,

1278
01:15:45,312 --> 01:15:47,714
stand on something you know, look.

1279
01:15:49,016 --> 01:15:54,454
It's the layering and the complexity
of these hierarchies right,

1280
01:15:54,555 --> 01:15:59,660
that I think is lost now, frankly,

1281
01:15:59,726 --> 01:16:02,396
because it is so superficial.

1282
01:16:02,496 --> 01:16:05,699
I mean a lot of the machine--
the machine is doing all the work for you.

1283
01:16:05,799 --> 01:16:07,067
Of course, you're giving the commands,

1284
01:16:07,167 --> 01:16:09,002
which of course I'm not denying

1285
01:16:09,102 --> 01:16:14,575
that the artist,
the designer is behind all this

1286
01:16:14,675 --> 01:16:18,545
and it's generating the actions,

1287
01:16:18,612 --> 01:16:22,482
but isn't it great if your body is
actually the one doing it?

1288
01:16:23,217 --> 01:16:29,423
Being able to directly manipulate type,
photography, color,

1289
01:16:29,523 --> 01:16:33,527
and to be able to see it in real time
as you are working,

1290
01:16:33,594 --> 01:16:35,295
that's what it's all about.

1291
01:16:35,395 --> 01:16:37,231
That's the revolution.

1292
01:16:37,331 --> 01:16:39,867
So it's not just about speed
to crank things out.

1293
01:16:39,967 --> 01:16:41,668
It's like a speed that

1294
01:16:41,735 --> 01:16:44,438
more closely matches
your own thought process,

1295
01:16:44,538 --> 01:16:47,140
your own ability to come up with ideas.

1296
01:16:47,975 --> 01:16:51,979
It has been a tremendous success story
in the last decades.

1297
01:16:52,646 --> 01:16:57,251
Everybody designs now, which is great.

1298
01:16:57,317 --> 01:17:02,656
It's like you know, not everybody
could write hundreds of years ago.

1299
01:17:02,723 --> 01:17:04,491
Now everybody can write.

1300
01:17:04,591 --> 01:17:06,660
All kinds of stupid things
will be written,

1301
01:17:06,727 --> 01:17:10,998
so all kinds of stupid designs
in bundles

1302
01:17:11,098 --> 01:17:13,734
and you know ever getting more.

1303
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:18,772
But they are still quality design
done by real good people

1304
01:17:18,872 --> 01:17:23,410
just as there's quality writing right now
by real good people.

1305
01:17:23,477 --> 01:17:25,646
It's much harder to find it now.

1306
01:17:25,746 --> 01:17:28,048
It used to be that
when you looked at some design,

1307
01:17:28,148 --> 01:17:31,185
it was already okay,
because you had to be a specialist.

1308
01:17:31,285 --> 01:17:32,953
Now you don't have to be a specialist,

1309
01:17:33,053 --> 01:17:36,223
so you have to really look
for something good,

1310
01:17:36,323 --> 01:17:38,225
which sometimes it's hard.

1311
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:43,263
When the Industrial Revolution
had hit its peak,

1312
01:17:43,330 --> 01:17:46,200
it gave birth
to the Arts and Crafts Movement

1313
01:17:46,300 --> 01:17:50,070
and I think any new technology is
always gonna have reactionaries

1314
01:17:50,170 --> 01:17:52,306
and it's gonna have experimenters

1315
01:17:52,406 --> 01:17:55,809
and it's kind of wonderful
to see both things come together.

1316
01:17:55,909 --> 01:17:58,011
Sometimes it comes out as pastiche

1317
01:17:58,111 --> 01:18:02,950
and sometimes it's a real
distinctive shift in the paradigms.

1318
01:18:05,152 --> 01:18:06,153
Let me put it this way.

1319
01:18:06,220 --> 01:18:08,856
Every time technology takes
a big step forward,

1320
01:18:08,922 --> 01:18:10,724
I take a big step backward.

1321
01:18:10,791 --> 01:18:12,726
It's like I'm almost down
to potato stamps now.

1322
01:18:12,826 --> 01:18:14,661
The technology's gotten so good.

1323
01:18:14,728 --> 01:18:18,999
Why would anybody hire me
when you can do it yourself?

1324
01:18:19,766 --> 01:18:22,903
The amazing thing is this is the studio.

1325
01:18:23,003 --> 01:18:24,505
That's it, you know?

1326
01:18:24,605 --> 01:18:30,577
It sounds blasÃ©, but that's the way
digital technology has gone,

1327
01:18:30,644 --> 01:18:33,780
means that the studio is
wherever my laptop is.

1328
01:18:38,519 --> 01:18:43,824
In the digital age,
there's a lot more end stuff.

1329
01:18:43,924 --> 01:18:46,059
You do a sketch, they'll change it.

1330
01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:49,730
You do your-- what you think is a final,
and then they'll say,

1331
01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:50,797
"Well, what if we did this?

1332
01:18:50,898 --> 01:18:52,533
What if we did this color?"

1333
01:18:53,534 --> 01:18:55,302
For instance you know,
if you look at that piece,

1334
01:18:55,402 --> 01:18:59,473
which is a combination of airbrush,
silk-screening, and it was big.

1335
01:18:59,540 --> 01:19:02,743
It was--
you know that piece was this big I think.

1336
01:19:03,577 --> 01:19:05,612
When that was done, it was done.

1337
01:19:05,712 --> 01:19:07,214
There is no-- there is like,

1338
01:19:07,281 --> 01:19:09,183
"Well, what if the horse is white?"
you know?

1339
01:19:09,283 --> 01:19:12,920
Or "What if the horse is black?"
or "What if Clint's shirt was red?"

1340
01:19:13,020 --> 01:19:14,621
I mean that didn't happen.

1341
01:19:14,688 --> 01:19:15,722
It happens now.

1342
01:19:15,789 --> 01:19:18,025
That's part of what we are.

1343
01:19:18,825 --> 01:19:22,529
I think the whole question of speed is
really interesting.

1344
01:19:22,629 --> 01:19:26,466
I think there's a good side to it,
which is that we can work quickly,

1345
01:19:26,567 --> 01:19:31,572
and more efficiently,
and why shouldn't we have things you know,

1346
01:19:31,672 --> 01:19:34,641
when we need them and faster
than they used to be.

1347
01:19:35,309 --> 01:19:39,880
The problem comes
when the clients come into this equation,

1348
01:19:39,980 --> 01:19:42,349
because clients think,
"Aha, this can be done overnight.

1349
01:19:42,449 --> 01:19:44,451
Well, this can be done--
I can ask for something

1350
01:19:44,551 --> 01:19:46,453
and it can be back to me the same day."

1351
01:19:46,553 --> 01:19:54,661
So I think that's created sort of culture
of sort of panic and endless deadlines,

1352
01:19:54,728 --> 01:19:56,163
and that's not good,

1353
01:19:56,263 --> 01:19:58,732
because if you eliminate
all thinking time,

1354
01:19:58,832 --> 01:20:00,934
design really, really suffers.

1355
01:20:01,535 --> 01:20:07,741
There is a tendency now for the client
to want to see the finished thing

1356
01:20:08,475 --> 01:20:10,477
before you've started it,

1357
01:20:11,378 --> 01:20:14,748
because that veneer of sophistication,

1358
01:20:14,848 --> 01:20:19,620
that veneer of quality is so seductive
that the client just thinks,

1359
01:20:19,686 --> 01:20:22,556
"Well, that's easy to do that, isn't it?

1360
01:20:22,623 --> 01:20:24,057
Just do it!"

1361
01:20:28,362 --> 01:20:30,364
A piece of software, I guess necessarily
will have to start

1362
01:20:30,464 --> 01:20:32,733
with some kind of default.

1363
01:20:33,133 --> 01:20:35,869
Pick up the text you'll have to start
with some kind of size, some kind of font,

1364
01:20:35,969 --> 01:20:37,304
something.

1365
01:20:37,404 --> 01:20:43,110
But it implies in this very quiet way
that there is some kind of center

1366
01:20:44,111 --> 01:20:47,681
and any choices you make after that is
some step away

1367
01:20:47,781 --> 01:20:51,251
from some kind of mythical
ultimate neutrality or something,

1368
01:20:51,351 --> 01:20:52,319
whatever.

1369
01:20:52,419 --> 01:20:57,357
And if you walk into a letter press shop,
there is no center to that universe.

1370
01:20:57,858 --> 01:21:04,264
And I think that's I don't know more
realistic way to think about it.

1371
01:21:04,364 --> 01:21:08,402
Took a long time
for the digital technology transition

1372
01:21:08,502 --> 01:21:13,073
to take over the publishing industry
and the graphic arts industry.

1373
01:21:13,140 --> 01:21:15,742
It's just the way transitions happen,
industries.

1374
01:21:15,809 --> 01:21:18,045
Horses went by the wayside,

1375
01:21:18,111 --> 01:21:20,614
high-end graphic arts system
went by the wayside,

1376
01:21:20,714 --> 01:21:23,250
and now everybody's empowered.

1377
01:21:23,350 --> 01:21:27,254
The art of computer graphics
is only in its infancy,

1378
01:21:27,321 --> 01:21:31,725
yet it is already stimulating
creative thought in far-out areas.

1379
01:21:31,825 --> 01:21:35,596
It offers not only the means
to quicken the pace of discovery,

1380
01:21:35,729 --> 01:21:42,769
but an ideal way of communicating
what we may discover.

1381
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:46,139
We want to see hierarchy,
we want to see organization,

1382
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,375
we want to see complexity,

1383
01:21:48,475 --> 01:21:52,079
and we wanna be led through complexity
in a good way.

1384
01:21:52,145 --> 01:21:55,115
But I don't think that'll ever change.

1385
01:21:55,215 --> 01:21:58,485
It's just how it's done differently now.

1386
01:21:58,585 --> 01:22:00,888
It's just different tools.