1 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,600 [Rowe] Craiova, Romania. 2 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,440 In the cramped suburbs of this small city 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,240 lies one of the country's toughest maximum security prisons. 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,800 The majority of inmates here are from Romania's excluded Gypsy community, 5 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,080 doing time for rape, robbery, and crimes of horrific violence. 6 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:36,880 Who did you kill? 7 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,000 [in Romanian] A Gypsy king. 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:43,840 I cut his throat, cut open his internal organs and his hand. 9 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,840 [Rowe] My name is Raphael Rowe. 10 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,280 I'm going to spend a week locked up inside this Romanian prison. 11 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,800 But it's not my first time behind bars. 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,040 I was convicted in the UK of a murder I didn't commit 13 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,720 and sentenced to life with no parole. 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,640 It took me 12 long years to clear my name. 15 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,440 Now I'm traveling the globe to discover what life is really like 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,880 inside some of the world's toughest prisons. 17 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:27,040 [Rowe] Sometimes, it's the inmates that make a prison tough. 18 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,240 And Craiova Prison in Romania has some of the toughest. 19 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,280 Its violent criminals reflect a shocking social problem. 20 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:42,880 An estimated 60% of the prisoners are Roma Gypsies. 21 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:48,440 But Gypsies make up just 3% of the country's population. 22 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,520 I'm spending a week inside Craiova Prison. 23 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:54,560 But before I do time, 24 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,440 I want to discover from Roma Gypsies themselves 25 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,320 why so many of their people are locked up. 26 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,960 -[traditional music playing] -[indistinct chatter] 27 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,400 I'm here to meet one of the local Gypsies. 28 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:11,600 He's bringing me into his family home, 29 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,640 to show me a different side of the Gypsy community here in Romania. 30 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,440 Until the mid-19th century, Gypsies in Romania were slaves. 31 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,120 After centuries of persecution, 32 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,520 many choose to live apart from Romanian society. 33 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,840 This family's clan, the Kalderari, have traditionally worked with metal. 34 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,080 [in Romanian] We sell them. We sell all kinds of metals: 35 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,080 brass, bronze, aluminum, as well. 36 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,120 [in Romanian] This was our job since we were children. 37 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,560 Grandparents, children... 38 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:46,800 Everyone did it! 39 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,240 Why do you think Gypsies here 40 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,440 get such a bad reputation amongst the Romanian community? 41 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,720 [in Romanian] There are several Gypsy clans who steal, 42 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:54,640 who don't live well. 43 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,560 But we are not like them! 44 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,840 [Rowe] I've been welcomed into this family's home. 45 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:03,040 -[woman] Hey, hey! -Here we go. 46 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:04,200 [chuckles] 47 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,960 [Rowe] But there's a darker side to the Gypsy story in Romania. 48 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,160 [dog barking] 49 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,680 [Rowe] The sky-high imprisonment rate for Gypsies 50 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,120 is linked to centuries of social exclusion 51 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,560 and traditions within the Gypsy community itself. 52 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,520 Child marriage and poor education trap many in poverty, 53 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,400 and for some clans, criminality and violent feuds 54 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,800 are ingrained in a macho, Gypsy way of life. 55 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,560 It'll be interesting to find out whether the people I meet in prison... 56 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,800 are pushed into the situation they're in, 57 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,200 because they have been discriminated against, 58 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:45,880 or whether they're outright criminals. 59 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,640 I'm on my way to spend a week inside Craiova Prison 60 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,160 -to find out more about its Gypsy inmates. -[police siren wailing] 61 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:00,440 I'm a bit unnerved about where I'm going. I don't know what to expect. 62 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,360 Everything from this moment onwards is going to be decided for me, 63 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,640 dictated by prison guards. 64 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,880 That level of control 65 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,080 reduces you to... a nonentity. 66 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,440 Come with me. This way, please. 67 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,840 [Rowe] Every time I go into a prison, 68 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,440 it brings back tough memories of my 12 years behind bars in Britain. 69 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,720 The first step to becoming a prisoner is a security check. 70 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,720 [in Romanian] Anything else on you? 71 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:38,640 No. 72 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,880 Telephones? Knives? 73 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,360 -Guns? -No. 74 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:43,760 -Grenades? -No. 75 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,240 Take your top off. Remove your clothes. 76 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,360 I will perform a thorough search down to your underwear. 77 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,520 [Rowe] Over the course of check-in, I'm stripped, searched, and interrogated. 78 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,920 It's just form after form after form. 79 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,840 I feel like I'm signing my life away. 80 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,160 Sign here, please. 81 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,560 [Rowe] The barrage of form filling 82 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,440 is a reminder that from now on, nothing is private. 83 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:18,800 Let's go. 84 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:21,280 We're here. 85 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:22,560 -We're here? -Yeah. 86 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,520 [Rowe] Before joining the main prison population, 87 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,360 I'm taken to quarantine, 88 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,560 where new inmates are monitored for 21 days. 89 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,440 It's a chance to risk assess prisoners 90 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,800 and isolate those with violent criminal rivalries. 91 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,000 Here, everyone from carjackers to murderers 92 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,720 share the same tiny set of caged exercise yards, 93 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,280 the only outdoor space available in this part of the prison. 94 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,440 I'm let inside to meet some of the newest arrivals. 95 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,680 It's my first opportunity to see what conditions in this prison are really like. 96 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,720 Do any of you guys speak English? 97 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,560 [in Romanian] We do not speak it very well. 98 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,320 How long have you guys been in here already? 99 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:15,720 [in Romanian] One month. 100 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,920 How many times have you been to prison? 101 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,040 Twice. Now is the third time. 102 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,880 [Rowe] These guys obviously know their way around, 103 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,200 and I'm keen to find out what to expect after quarantine. 104 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,800 [in Romanian] The cells are very nasty and overcrowded. 105 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,680 You feel you have no air. 106 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,240 What community do you come from? 107 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,840 There are many Roma Gypsies here. 108 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,760 [in Romanian] There's no justice for us. 109 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,680 We feel that Romanian punishments are more suitable for dogs than people. 110 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,560 Actually, not even dogs deserve this. 111 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:54,680 [Rowe] Of the first prisoners I've met, 112 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,200 three of them are from the Gypsy community. 113 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,800 The one thing that struck me more than anything 114 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,880 is the anger on their expressions, the, um... 115 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:06,880 the words of victimization. 116 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,000 They are saying they are victims of a system that's treated them unfairly. 117 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,240 Is what these guys are telling me, in quarantine, 118 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,120 representative of what happens to Gypsies? 119 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,080 After the assessment period, prisoners are allocated to a cell. 120 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,360 I've been assigned to the medium security wing, 121 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,160 housing inmates deemed to be a lower risk, 122 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:35,240 serving sentences for all manner of crimes, from robbery to murder. 123 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,560 With almost a thousand inmates in Craiova's cramped city plot, 124 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,400 space is tight. 125 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,480 In recent years, prisons across Romania have been struck by violent riots. 126 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,400 The main cause: poor conditions and chronic overcrowding. 127 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,040 I'm a bit apprehensive, 128 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,480 based on what these guys said to me about the conditions: 129 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,520 the cramped-ness, the not being able to breathe. 130 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,520 And I feel slightly panicky about... 131 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,280 about the idea that I'm gonna be cocooned in a space. 132 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,040 Hello. Hello. 133 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,160 My name is Raphael. I'm your new cellmate. 134 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,400 I don't know if any of you speak English? 135 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,360 Yeah, I speak a little bit of English. 136 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:24,840 -Oh, hi. -Yeah, hello. 137 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:30,080 I'm Raphael. Can you tell these other guys that I'm their new cellmate? 138 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,080 No problem. We're gonna... We're gonna begin with these guys here. 139 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:35,120 -Okay. -Yeah. 140 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,559 [Rowe] One prisoner, Armand, is happy to show me around. 141 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,520 And as I meet my other cellmates, 142 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,640 it's clear this cell is not quite as crowded as I'd feared. 143 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,480 -Okay, so how many beds is there? -We have, like, 24. 144 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:52,200 -There's one for me? -Yeah, there's a bed for you. 145 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,280 Here, maybe one here. 146 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,200 [Rowe] With bedding still in place, 147 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,080 it looks like the previous occupant left in a hurry. 148 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:00,880 Does this belong to someone already? 149 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,080 No, it is free. There are many free beds. 150 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,360 Have you been in here when there's been as many as 24? 151 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,080 Yeah, but when there is 24, it's a little bit... 152 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:14,320 -Overcrowded? -Yeah. 153 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,080 [Rowe] With rumors of chronic overcrowding, 154 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,840 I'm wondering if the guards have removed some prisoners for my benefit. 155 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,160 Or perhaps they're just camera shy. 156 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,360 There are still 13 men in here. 157 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,640 With little privacy, it wouldn't take much for tensions to spill over. 158 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,480 So, once the door's locked and the guards are out of sight, 159 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:39,160 flare-ups among these dangerous inmates are common. 160 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,000 Having had experience of prison myself, back in England, 161 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,680 I wouldn't be intimidated by anybody or anything. 162 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:52,080 But how do you deal with the aggression of another cellmate 163 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,880 who's becoming aggressive and maybe threatening? 164 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,040 Sometimes, the problems from the cell, we resolve them here. 165 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,360 If you have a difference with someone, will you have a one-on-one fight? 166 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,800 You can have a fair fight. At the end of it, that ends it? 167 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,200 If he is a big problem, we're gonna... 168 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:11,880 tell them, "Stop here. Go outside." 169 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,440 What else is available to me in here, Armand? 170 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,000 -We have here the shower. -Can I see? 171 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,360 Yeah, of course. Come. 172 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,520 -This is the shower? -This is the shower. 173 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,120 [Rowe] The facilities seem in reasonably good condition. 174 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,560 -The three showers work? -Yeah, three showers working. We have... 175 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,080 [Rowe] Although, with prisoners stashing food items 176 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,560 to supplement their meager prison diet, 177 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,800 this cell has attracted the odd unwelcome visitor. 178 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:47,240 Like the majority of prisoners in this cell, Armand is a Gypsy. 179 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,560 I'm curious to know more about his community 180 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,880 and what brought him to prison. 181 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,280 -How long is your sentence? -Ten years. 182 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,680 -It's a long time. -It is a very long time. 183 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,200 Can I ask what you're doing ten years for? 184 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,880 -Attempted murder. -Attempted murder? 185 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,240 Yeah, attempted murder. 186 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,160 It was a fight. 187 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,560 It implicated my cousins 188 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,520 and all my family... 189 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,160 with other Gypsy guys. 190 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,040 -Right. -Yeah. 191 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,880 [Rowe] After a dispute over money between his cousin and a rival Gypsy family, 192 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,480 Armand himself became a target. 193 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:32,800 These Gypsy Romanians came to my home, and they beat me... 194 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,520 and they said to my cousin... 195 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,080 "We're gonna get you." Something like that. 196 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,320 Is that part of the Gypsy culture, that if one person from a family gets involved, 197 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,640 -they target the whole family? -Yeah. 198 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,120 -All right. -It's like this. 199 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,440 [Rowe] After the beating, Armand was intent on revenge. 200 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,240 One day, my cousin called me and asked, "Come. These guys are over here." 201 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,160 I went to meet him, and he's beginning the big fight. 202 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,160 And I took out the gun, and I shot him. 203 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,280 How did it feel, pointing that gun at this person that you wanted to hurt? 204 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,400 And I suspect, Armand, when you pointed the gun at him, 205 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,560 you wanted to kill him. 206 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,120 That was your intention, not to hurt him, but to kill him. 207 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,280 Yeah, sure. 208 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,560 Yet the question is how I felt before that, when he beat my family. 209 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,520 And I have this anger in my heart, 210 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,280 and that's why I felt nothing after. 211 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,760 [Rowe] For Armand, blood feuds and vendettas between clans 212 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,640 are an expected part of Gypsy life. 213 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,560 All too often, this brutal culture of revenge 214 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,640 leads many Gypsies either to death or a long prison sentence. 215 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,960 As my first day in Craiova comes to an end, 216 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,800 I'm struck by just how confined conditions in the prison really are. 217 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,280 Just like Brixton Prison in London, where I did time, space is scarce. 218 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,280 It means inmates spend a lot more time in their cells. 219 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,080 I've seen people swinging lines. 220 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,360 By that, I mean they tie bits of fabric together, 221 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,280 put something on the end of it, swing it, 222 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,720 and throw it to a prisoner next door. 223 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,840 Using lines to pass messages, cigarettes, and other contraband 224 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,280 is common in prisons the world over. 225 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,320 -[indistinct chatter] -It has the hum and the noise of a prison, 226 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,720 including prisoners shouting out their cells. 227 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:38,200 So, whatever freedoms they do have, this is a place of confinement, 228 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,240 and everything around me reminds me of that. 229 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,800 It's a new day in Craiova Prison. 230 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,680 And for many prisoners, it's time to go to work. 231 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,040 By taking a job in places like the prison's shoe workshop, 232 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,920 inmates receive an income and earn time off their sentence. 233 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,080 Even so, not everyone chooses to work. 234 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,680 Those who don't are confined to their cells for most of the day. 235 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,520 Today, I've been assigned a job in the kitchens. 236 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,080 Hi. 237 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:19,960 My name is Raphael. 238 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,200 I've been told to come here to help with the cooking today? 239 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,080 -Dragusin. -Dragusin? Raphael. 240 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,920 Showing me the ropes is Gypsy inmate Dragusin Saban. 241 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,800 [in Romanian] Today, we're making doughnuts. 242 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,640 It's easy. We just take them and shape them. 243 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,840 Do you have to train to work in here? 244 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,560 Not really. We come and learn here, 245 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,400 but anyone that knows how to do it is welcome. 246 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,160 So, do you think, when you get out of prison, 247 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,560 the skill you've learned in this kitchen will help you get a job? 248 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,200 Yes, I'm sure it will help me. 249 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:10,440 [Rowe] Unemployment in the Gypsy community that Dragusin is from is close to 50%. 250 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,160 So, for him, learning a new skill like this 251 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,160 could be a vital part of his rehabilitation. 252 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:18,960 How long are you serving? 253 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,440 I got 14 years. 254 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,160 That's a long time. 255 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,680 What did you get sentenced to 14 years for? 256 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:28,880 For rape. 257 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,200 Really? 258 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,280 That's quite a serious offense. 259 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,600 Are you guilty of the rape? 260 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,120 Yes. 261 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:47,600 The boys and I were at a party. We started drinking and then it happened. 262 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,320 The woman you raped, was she a Gypsy? 263 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:53,440 No. 264 00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:00,160 [Rowe] In Romania, the rape of a non-Gypsy by a Gypsy is especially controversial. 265 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,360 Dragusin believes this may have affected his sentence. 266 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:10,200 Do you think that your 14 years for the rape you committed was too much? 267 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:17,560 A lot of people convicted for murder get eight-, nine-, or ten-year sentences. 268 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,720 But I got 14 for rape. It's not fair. 269 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,920 I doubt whether the woman you raped would agree with that. 270 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,480 I don't think so. 271 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,560 [Rowe] In many prisons, sex offenders are so hated by other inmates 272 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,440 that they're segregated for their own safety. 273 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,880 So, seeing someone like Dragusin 274 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,680 work in the general prison population is a surprise. 275 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,680 In my time in prison, sex offenders were segregated. 276 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,120 Sex offenders wouldn't dare come out of the hidden environment 277 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,040 that they were kept in by the prison system. 278 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,240 So I am really surprised that he is, 279 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,200 and he says, living amongst the general population. 280 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,520 With work in the kitchens done, 281 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,480 it's time to move on to my next job: delivering the food. 282 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,119 On this wing, the lack of space means all prisoners 283 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,680 are forced to eat in their cells. 284 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,160 So I'm going door-to-door with chief server Michael. 285 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,280 [Michael in Romanian] Dinner's served. Bring your bowls. 286 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,000 It's chicken soup and the rice dish. 287 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:27,119 [Rowe] On this wing, 20 or more prisoners are locked up in a single, cramped room 288 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,480 for up to 20 hours a day. 289 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:37,720 And if the cells aren't bad enough, the food looks less than appetizing. 290 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:42,560 This is one of the options, but it's not very popular. 291 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,160 I've only seen one guy in about five or six cells go for this one. 292 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,480 But inside, beggars can't be choosers. 293 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,320 -Do you like the food? -[prisoner 1] Yes. 294 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,000 [prisoner 2 in Romanian] We don't have much choice. 295 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,760 [Rowe] For Michael, a small income isn't the only perk of this prison job. 296 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,160 For every day he works, he gets time off his sentence. 297 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,360 I've earned 545 days so far. 298 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,960 So, you've already reduced your sentence by over a year. 299 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,840 How long is your prison sentence? 300 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,160 Twenty-five years. 301 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,440 What crime did you commit to get 25 years? 302 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:30,240 Murder. 303 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:32,320 What happened? 304 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,520 My wife cheated on me with my sister's husband. 305 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,080 I caught them both at it, and that was it. 306 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,520 You killed them both? 307 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,200 No, just her. 308 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:46,200 Just my wife. 309 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,200 How hard is it to live with what you did, here in prison? 310 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,960 It's been hard for me ever since I got arrested, but now I'm used to it. 311 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,000 It's been so many years. I'm used to suffering. 312 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,520 [Rowe] Michael's story is a reminder that, in this prison, 313 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,720 it's not just Gypsies who've committed violent acts against women. 314 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,480 It seems this prison job is a way to distract himself 315 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,720 from the memory of that crime. 316 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:20,800 How do you live a normal life? 317 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:25,200 There's gonna be so many memories of what he destroyed 318 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,280 that he will never be able to escape his crime. 319 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,840 I suppose what comes out of this for me is that you're never that far away 320 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,400 from another prisoner who's committed an horrendous crime. 321 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,680 Back in medium security, it's yard time. 322 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,000 For three precious hours a day, prisoners are allowed out to exercise. 323 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:59,240 My cellmate, Armand, has challenged me to a game of football tennis. 324 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,280 As a seasoned inmate, he's had a lot of practice 325 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,800 and makes for a tough opponent. 326 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,520 [laughs] 327 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,360 Five for us. 328 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,360 [Rowe] Gradually, the tide starts to turn. 329 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,440 [Armand] Go! 330 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,920 Oh, man, look at me. I'm sweating. Um, it's a good game. Very competitive. 331 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,400 Although, he is a bit of a cheater, Armand. [chuckles] 332 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,360 -[Armand] Repeat this one, as well. -Repeat this one, as well? 333 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,880 Every point I've played, we've gotta repeat. 334 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,040 It was 5-1 a minute ago. It's now 6-6. Where'd he get that from? 335 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,400 Despite Armand's sometimes underhand tactics, 336 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,840 he eventually concedes defeat. 337 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,560 -We are the champions. -That's true, yeah. 338 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,600 Good match, man. 339 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,080 [Rowe] Good match. 340 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,840 [sing-song] Champion, champion, champion. 341 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,400 Back in the cell, it'll be another 21 hours 342 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,520 before many of the prisoners are allowed out again. 343 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:06,320 Armand has been in jail for much of his adult life. 344 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,560 When it comes to killing time, he's an expert. 345 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,840 He's invited me to a game of rummy with fellow Gypsy inmate Mustafa Marian, 346 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,360 serving a 20-year sentence for murder. 347 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,480 It's a good chance for me to find out more about Gypsy life. 348 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,680 Before I came here, I heard that... 349 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,360 most of the prisoners inside Craiova Prison 350 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,240 are made up of Gypsies. Why is that? 351 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:42,720 I think, first of all, it's the education and the poverty. 352 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,080 So, many in the Gypsy community who have not been educated... 353 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,600 -[Armand] Yeah. -...like you. 354 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,120 Yeah, like me. 355 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,120 And why does that lead to more Gypsies coming to prison? 356 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,600 Your crime is not a crime of poverty or education, is it? 357 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,800 Yours is a crime of violence. 358 00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:59,720 Yeah. 359 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,280 I don't know. I don't know. 360 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,960 The truth is that we, the Roma, we don't like to work so much. 361 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,840 That's the reputation that Gypsies have probably around the world. 362 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:14,760 This is true, yeah. 363 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,880 [Rowe] For Armand, poor education and a weak work ethic 364 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,760 are the toxic combination that leads so many Gypsies into crime. 365 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,440 But when the conversation turns to Mustafa's marriage, 366 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,960 I get another, even more shocking glimpse into Gypsy culture. 367 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,880 So, how old was he when he got married? 368 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,800 [in Romanian] I got married when I was about 13, 14 years old. 369 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,640 And how old was your, um, bride? 370 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,000 She was about 13. 371 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,640 -Thirteen? -[Armand] Yeah. 372 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:57,160 And I know that's the, um, Gypsy tradition and culture. 373 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,000 Is it still acceptable that 13 and... 374 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:01,920 [Armand] Now? 375 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,160 -Yeah. -[Armand] Yeah. 376 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,920 You have a daughter. Your daughter comes, 377 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,080 and you'd be happy to marry her off at 12 or 13 years old? 378 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,440 I must go with it. 379 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:19,680 I know how you see this, but this is how we live. 380 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,720 [Rowe] Historically, arranged child marriages 381 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,360 have been a way for Gypsies to preserve their clan bloodlines. 382 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,120 To break such traditions 383 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,240 would bring shame and dishonor on Armand's family. 384 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,240 But it's easy to see why so many ordinary Romanians 385 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,320 see this aspect of the Gypsy culture as criminal. 386 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,680 In a crowded prison like Craiova, 387 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,640 inmates usually take any chance to get out of their cells. 388 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:55,840 Today, bad weather means 389 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,120 even the toughest prisoners are choosing to stay locked up. 390 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,200 All, except one. 391 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,520 Gulie Florian is one of Craiova's most notorious inmates. 392 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,400 Serving a life sentence, he's a Rudari, 393 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:18,240 an ethnic minority that most Romanians consider the same as Roma Gypsies. 394 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,840 I've heard his case exposed the most violent side of Romania's ethnic tensions. 395 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,480 -Hello. How are you doing? -[in Romanian] Hello. 396 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:30,600 -Good to meet you. -I'm Gulie. 397 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:31,960 Gulie, Raphael. 398 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,120 I'm joining Gulie's improvised gym workout. 399 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,080 -It's a punishing routine... -[grunts] 400 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,760 ...that leaves me in no doubt I'm dealing with an alpha prisoner, 401 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,360 the toughest of the tough. 402 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,640 -[both breathing heavily] -[Rowe] You're good. 403 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,920 You're good. Tiring, right? 404 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,280 How often do you come and do this? 405 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:54,640 Two, three times a week. 406 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,640 And what are you in prison for? 407 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,800 What crime did you commit? 408 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:00,240 Murder. 409 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,520 How did you end up killing someone? 410 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,120 We went to a nightclub. 411 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,320 I wanted to get a table for my friend and I. 412 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,480 But we were not allowed in the club, being Gypsies. 413 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,560 A guy came along. I didn't know that he was the owner of the nightclub. 414 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,640 He started insulting us, saying "Gypsies." He punched my friend. 415 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:23,520 [Rowe] Before long, the fight attracted the attention of Gulie's victim, 416 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,200 a non-Gypsy professional boxer. 417 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,320 The sportsman. His name was Gălbenuşe. 418 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,360 It was a fair fight, but I couldn't get the better of him. 419 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,520 I couldn't because he was big. Big. 420 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,640 He'd been working for 10-15 years as an MMA boxer. 421 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,000 And I cut him three times. 422 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,320 On his face. 423 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,280 Then in the back. 424 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,120 But I didn't know that I had stabbed him in the heart. 425 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,440 Do you get a lot of respect from the other prisoners 426 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,640 because of the person you killed? 427 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,160 [Gulie] Some of them, yes. 428 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,400 Especially the majority of Gypsies. They are happy. 429 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,160 Because there's no place for us in discos and clubs because of Romanian people. 430 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,520 Because they had been humiliated, punched, spat on. 431 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,480 Do you feel that you're being and have been discriminated against? 432 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,160 Yes, I was. 433 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,200 I wouldn't have gotten a life sentence 434 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,800 if the press hadn't made such a fuss about me being a Gypsy. 435 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,160 The press destroyed me. 436 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,480 For five months, the television screamed, 437 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,400 "Gypsy, Gypsy. He killed the sportsman, killed the boxer." 438 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,760 I was destroyed by the media. 439 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:51,840 Why? Because I'm a Gypsy? We are just people, like everyone else. 440 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,760 [Rowe] Racial discrimination was a common struggle for many 441 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,920 when I was in prison, including myself. 442 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,200 While there's no doubt Gulie deserves a harsh punishment, 443 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,600 I'm struck by his belief that he's been victimized 444 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,720 by a racist, segregated society. 445 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,920 I've been behind bars for a few days, 446 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,120 and I'm beginning to get a feel for prison life here. 447 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,600 [indistinct chatter] 448 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,600 [Rowe] But now, I'm going to spend time with the guards 449 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,040 to get their perspective. 450 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,280 And they are taking me to one of the most feared blocks 451 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,040 in the entire prison. 452 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:46,280 They have a maximum security prison block inside this high security prison. 453 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:49,200 And already it looks distinctively different, 454 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,320 on the outside, to the more relaxed blocks, 455 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,720 where I've met other prisoners over the last couple of days. 456 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,240 And I'm gonna be taken inside to see what it's like inside. 457 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:07,240 Locked in their cells for up to 23 hours a day, 458 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,320 the prisoners here are some of the country's 459 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,600 most dangerous rapists, murderers, and hired killers. 460 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,960 It's prison officer Jilayu's job to keep order in this volatile world. 461 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,120 This maximum security block, how does it differ 462 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,880 from the other cell blocks that are not so secure? 463 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,560 [in Romanian] Here we have the most dangerous ones. 464 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,200 The ones with the longest sentences are here. 465 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,520 There have to be fewer of them in each cell in order to avoid conflict. 466 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,120 So, they are under total surveillance. 467 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,360 [Rowe] In here, guards must remain constantly vigilant. 468 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,840 Even the smallest item out of place could be used by a prisoner as a weapon. 469 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,880 Is there a set routine where you go into the cells every day to check? 470 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,800 And what are you checking for? 471 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,840 We check each cell. 472 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,720 And we check to make sure everything is in its place, 473 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,880 that the bars in the window are intact. 474 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,320 In this job, we need to be really alert. 475 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,680 [Rowe] On this wing, prisoners are kept locked down in tiny rooms, 476 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,160 three to a cell. 477 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,040 In 2017, the European Court of Human Rights 478 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,320 issued fines for poor conditions in Craiova. 479 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:27,120 So, when I ask to look inside a cell, the guards are understandably nervous. 480 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,000 What they're trying to do is show me a cell that's perfect. 481 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,480 They just opened up one cell. 482 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,280 They didn't like something in there. They didn't want me to see. 483 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,200 I'm starting to see how the guards are trying to manage 484 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,440 what I see and don't see, what I hear and what I don't hear. 485 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,280 Finally, the guards find a cell they're prepared to show me. 486 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,200 With basic amenities squeezed alongside a tiny sleeping area, 487 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,720 it reminds me of my solitary confinement cell back in Britain. 488 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,480 But here, three men must spend most of their time on their beds 489 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,840 for up to 23 hours a day. 490 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,600 This is harsh. 491 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,520 It's hard to convey how a human being 492 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,280 can be kept inside such a confined space for so many years. 493 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,880 It's hard enough when you do it on your own, 494 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,800 but to do it with somebody else? 495 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,520 There's just so many things that could trigger 496 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,120 among these very violent prisoners. 497 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:36,840 You need to feel this space to understand how oppressive it is. 498 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,640 Even the hardest man will find it difficult to cope with this. 499 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,640 Marius Burican has been locked up in one of these tiny cells for two years. 500 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,640 At only 23 years old, he's serving a life sentence. 501 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,840 While not a Gypsy himself, he grew up around Roma friends, 502 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,640 and was convicted for a violent knife crime 503 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,200 as part of a bitter Gypsy feud. 504 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,080 So today, I'm amazed to discover that his prison job 505 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,320 allows him to work with blades. 506 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,080 -[in Romanian] Hello. -You Marius? 507 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:19,840 -Hello. -Nice to meet you. Raphael. 508 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:20,760 Nice to meet you. 509 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,720 So, you're the cellblock barber? 510 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:23,720 Yes. 511 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,360 All right, okay. And how long have you been cutting inmates' hair? 512 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,720 Almost five months. 513 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,000 And was you a barber outside? 514 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,080 -No. -No? 515 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,400 They needed a barber in maximum security. 516 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,480 And because of my good behavior, I was chosen for that role. 517 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,000 Not knowing how to cut hair, I learned step by step, inside. 518 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,040 How long are you serving? 519 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,320 I was sentenced to 22 years in prison. 520 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,800 What crime did you commit to be sent to prison for 20 years? 521 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:55,880 Contract killing. 522 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:57,600 A hitman? 523 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:00,560 Who did you kill? 524 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,320 A Gypsy king... 525 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,440 in exchange for a good amount of money and some gold. 526 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,200 [Rowe] A Gypsy king, known as a Bulibasha, 527 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,280 is a powerful clan leader. 528 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:13,440 Did you get the money? 529 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:14,400 No. 530 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,880 But you got 20 years. 531 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:16,960 Yes. 532 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:18,240 [Rowe] And you smile. 533 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,280 Marius's cellmate, Alex, was the middleman for the contract killing. 534 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,600 How did you kill the person? 535 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,240 Stabbing. 536 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,080 I had a machete with a 50 cm blade. 537 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,520 I cut their electricity. 538 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,160 He was sleeping in bed with his wife. 539 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,240 It was dark. Pitch black. 540 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,760 Finally, I found him 541 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,720 and hit him with the machete around the neck. 542 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:59,040 I cut his throat, cut open his internal organs and his hand. 543 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,000 You took someone's life. 544 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,320 And you have the faces of guys that don't know what they've done. 545 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,120 Especially you, Alex. The way you look at me, 546 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,360 you still seem quite shell-shocked by the fact that you're doing 20 years. 547 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,800 [in Romanian] Maybe those sentencing us should have taken into account 548 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,880 that we didn't know what we were doing. 549 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,000 We even took the whole thing as a joke, in the beginning. 550 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,440 So, what's the consequence of killing a Gypsy leader? 551 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,720 Is there no comeback? No threat to your lives? 552 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,440 So what if it upsets them? 553 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,120 There's nothing they can do. 554 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,120 I mean, what are they gonna do? 555 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,520 Come and what? Say that we killed their leader? 556 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,720 Kill us? What can they do? 557 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,240 [Rowe] Marius and Alex seem strangely matter-of-fact about their crime. 558 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:56,400 But from what I've heard 559 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,280 about the Gypsy culture of revenge and bloody vendettas, 560 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,720 they may have to watch their backs. 561 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,240 This prison is full of Gypsies. 562 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,880 If these young adults... 563 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,600 are the target of Gypsies 564 00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:14,960 who want revenge for the murder they committed... 565 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,800 They killed a Gypsy king. 566 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,440 ...this is the place it's gonna happen. 567 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,840 6:00 a.m., and it's a new day for the prisoners in medium security. 568 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,840 But for Armand, this is no ordinary day. 569 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,320 -So, it's visits day today. -Yeah, today is visit day. 570 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,239 -Who are you expecting-- -Family. 571 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,120 -Your family? -Yeah, my wife and children. 572 00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,440 -So, you've got to spruce yourself up? -Yeah. 573 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,000 [Rowe] I know, from my own experience, 574 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,520 just how important visiting days are for inmates. 575 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,600 So, it's no surprise that Armand's keen to look his best. 576 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,080 Armand's wife, Ancuța, has brought two of their five children to visit. 577 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,680 [in Romanian] Come. Come to Daddy. Come to me. 578 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,760 [Rowe] His daughter, Giovana, and youngest son, Ianis. 579 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,600 Ianis was conceived during a conjugal visit, 580 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:23,120 and Armand has never spent time with his son outside the prison walls. 581 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,800 For Ancuța, days like today bring mixed emotions. 582 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,640 What does coming to visit Armand mean to you? 583 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,160 [in Romanian] We get very happy, and then we go home and get sad. 584 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,240 [Rowe] When I was talking to Armand about how he was feeling before the visit, 585 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,440 he described butterflies in his tummy. 586 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,320 [laughing] 587 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:53,480 I think I feel the same. 588 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,840 I get the impression that you can't quite believe 589 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,480 that he has these butterflies feelings, 590 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,440 that you're probably learning more about his emotions now 591 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,120 than you have for a long time. Am I right? 592 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,800 Yes, I'm very surprised. 593 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,880 [laughing] 594 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,120 Armand has been away for three years. 595 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,400 So, he's not been a part of your outside family life. 596 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,760 How do you cope without him being there? 597 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,720 It's difficult. It's very difficult. 598 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,200 With the children, the house, everything. 599 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,080 What can I say? It's very hard. 600 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,720 Very hard at home without him. To not see him, not have him at home. 601 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,280 Do you blame Armand for that? For getting himself in trouble? 602 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,160 That's how it was meant to be. 603 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:48,200 [speaks indistinctly] 604 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,200 If you don't mind me saying, there is a sadness. 605 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,440 I can see a sadness in you. 606 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,400 How do you... 607 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,640 [Armand in English] She's crying. 608 00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:00,680 [Rowe] That's okay. I feel like I need to cry, too. 609 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,080 It's sad to sit here and see this. It's sad. 610 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,640 -Are you okay, Armand? -Yeah. 611 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:09,960 [Ianis speaks indistinctly] 612 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,440 [Rowe] I can see it's hard for Armand to be separated from his family. 613 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,320 But I'm curious to know if it'll be enough to stop him reoffending. 614 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,120 Armand has not shown any remorse for the crime he's committed. 615 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:32,760 I suppose he's typical of the type of prisoner I'm interested in, 616 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,640 whether they will ever come back again. Is this the final time? 617 00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:40,880 Is ten years enough to make him realize what he's giving up? 618 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,720 So, that's what I want to find out from him. 619 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,040 After the visit, Armand attends an arts and crafts class, 620 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,720 where he's making a wooden model of his house. 621 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,400 -Thanks for letting me come on the visit. -Pleasure. 622 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,600 It was quite... For me, it was quite distressing. 623 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,960 And your wife was very distressed, you know, 624 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,120 even though she has been to visit you over the last three years. 625 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,600 I was really taken aback by how emotional she felt seeing you, 626 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:09,640 -and talking to me. -Yes. 627 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,760 Every time, when she comes to visit me, it's like this. 628 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,840 And I suppose the biggest problem, and she made this clear, 629 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,600 was bringing up five kids on her own, at home, is not easy. 630 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,040 It's not easy for her, yeah, but it's okay. 631 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,920 It's not okay. You know, it must be really difficult. 632 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,000 I don't know your situation, 633 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,200 but I just can't imagine what that must be like for her. 634 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,600 Your offense, what you're in prison for, 635 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,520 the violence your family suffered and why you needed to take revenge... 636 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,480 Do you feel any remorse and regret? 637 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,480 For doing what you did? Honestly? 638 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,440 [Armand] About this, about my situation, because I am here, 639 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,000 yes, a little bit, you know? 640 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,200 But for most of the situation, no. 641 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,720 You don't feel regret for what you did to him, 642 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,720 but you feel sorry for yourself 'cause you're in prison. 643 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,480 -Your circumstances are this. -Yeah. 644 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,840 -But in terms of... the victim... -Yeah. 645 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,160 -you couldn't care less. -Of course. 646 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,600 -That's honest. -Yeah. 647 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,480 That's honest. And most people, I suppose, would pretend that they do care, 648 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,720 because it might reduce their sentence or make people believe. 649 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,080 Why should... I don't like to lie and things like that. 650 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,880 I'm straight, you know. I get my sentence. 651 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,320 Do you think this will be the last time for you? 652 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,000 I don't really know. 653 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,960 In the future, I may have some problem with somebody... 654 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,800 If I must defend myself, I'm gonna do it again. 655 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,800 [Rowe] It seems like Armand's loyalty to the macho code of Gypsy culture 656 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,600 means there's a strong chance he'll reoffend. 657 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,520 He hasn't learned his lesson. 658 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,760 He sees himself as a man's man. 659 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:51,400 He will, at any point, at any time, defend himself, defend his family. 660 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,800 And if it means taking a gun and pulling the trigger at another person, 661 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,080 he's prepared to do that. 662 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,400 I think he's pretty typical of those that go out 663 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:00,760 and end up coming straight back. 664 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,520 If Armand does continue his life of crime, he won't be alone. 665 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:12,560 Once released, over 70% of all prisoners in Romania reoffend. 666 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,520 To find out why, I've come to meet prison governor Marin Calota. 667 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,840 How many prisoners that are released end up coming back to prison? 668 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,240 [in Romanian] I can't give you a percentage, 669 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,320 but the rate of recidivism is relatively high. 670 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:30,360 Why is that? 671 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,160 Prisoners end up in jail 672 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:34,880 because they don't know the rules of society. 673 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,280 And they lack the education to understand those social rules. 674 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:47,240 Romanian society offers access to education for all. 675 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:52,200 But if we're talking only about the persons of Roma ethnicity, 676 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,480 they have a certain culture. They don't participate. 677 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:56,920 Is it fair to say 678 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,480 that a disproportionate number of the prisoners here 679 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,080 come from the Gypsy community? 680 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,040 I don't have a record of Roma Gypsy prisoners, 681 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,440 as it is not a criterion that we use. 682 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:10,960 It's interesting, isn't it? 683 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,720 Because it then follows that maybe that is something you should have, 684 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:20,040 because, without it, how can you tailor rehabilitation programs for prisoners? 685 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,880 Yes, but at the same time, 686 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,960 it might create discrimination between the Romanian and Gypsy Roma prisoners, 687 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,280 which currently does not exist. 688 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,560 [Rowe] The governor believes that gathering statistics 689 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,680 on the number of Gypsy inmates would fuel prejudice. 690 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,800 Yet this apparently even-handed position is also a form of willful blindness. 691 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,920 As long as the authorities don't acknowledge the problem, 692 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,520 they don't have to do anything about it. 693 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,360 All the same, there's one way 694 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,720 the prison is trying to help its Gypsy inmates. 695 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,200 And on my last day in Craiova, I'm on my way to see how it works. 696 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,280 This school teacher usually teaches ten-year-olds. 697 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,160 But today, her pupils aren't children. 698 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,960 They're some of Romania's most violent criminals. 699 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,640 [in Romanian] Exercises of addition and subtraction. 700 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,360 [Rowe] And it turns out that one of her star students is Gulie. 701 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,840 That handwriting is better than mine. 702 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,760 That's very neat handwriting. 703 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,720 I do what I can. 704 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:38,520 [Rowe] In Romania, only 7% of Gypsies complete secondary education. 705 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,480 School is viewed as gadje, a non-Gypsy institution 706 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,680 that threatens the traditional Roma way of life. 707 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,080 What was your level of reading on the outside? 708 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,720 I can read, but I'm a bit slow. 709 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,360 You need to learn when you're young. It's more difficult when you're grown up. 710 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,200 [Rowe] For Gulie, it's the first time he's ever learned even basic math. 711 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,680 Do you understand the answer? 712 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,480 Hard. It's a bit too hard. 713 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:10,720 [speaking Romanian] 714 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,360 It looks simple enough for somebody who understands it, 715 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,280 but I can imagine how challenging it must be 716 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,480 if you've never done this simple addition. 717 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,880 First pupil, Raphael. 718 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,280 Please come to the blackboard. 719 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,360 -You want me to come up? -[teacher in English] Yes. 720 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:27,760 -Come to the table, yes? -Yes. 721 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,680 This is where I'm under a lot of pressure. Okay. What if I get it wrong? 722 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:37,840 Okay. Thank you. 723 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,760 For me, trying to solve a math problem in Romanian 724 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,520 is a serious challenge. 725 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,600 [teacher speaking Romanian] 726 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,640 Minus 124 cars... 727 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:54,400 [laughing] 728 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,240 Maybe I can get Gulie to come and help me. 729 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:57,600 -Gulie, please. -[teacher] Gulie? 730 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,520 [speaking Romanian] 731 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,400 -Raphael? -Yeah. 732 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,680 [Rowe] With a little help from Gulie, we finally get to some kind of answer. 733 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,360 -[Gulie laughs] -[all speaking indistinctly] 734 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,880 [Rowe] Seeing Gulie's enthusiasm for learning 735 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,400 reveals an unexpected side to this killer's personality. 736 00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,720 There are days when I am upset and don't want to think about anything. 737 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,680 But here, I write best. 738 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,080 I'm focused on learning. 739 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,160 Yes, it changed. The mentality changed. My mind changed. 740 00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:31,320 I think differently now. 741 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,240 [Rowe] Only a handful of Gypsy inmates are enrolled 742 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,360 in the prison's education scheme. 743 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,600 But for those who are, it's a chance to break free 744 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,560 from some of the traditional Gypsy attitudes 745 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,000 that helped to put them in prison in the first place. 746 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,240 It's the first sign I've seen that prisoners here 747 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,560 have at least some hope of rehabilitation. 748 00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,960 And Gulie, who is a murderer, you know... Um, you can't help but think, 749 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,840 had they been given the chance of education 750 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,080 before they ended up in prison in an education class, 751 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,960 would it have made a difference to their lives 752 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,200 and the lives of victims and society as a whole? 753 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,520 During my time in Craiova, 754 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,520 I've glimpsed the dark underbelly of Romanian society. 755 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,840 It's a place where fresh-faced teens kill for money, 756 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,360 where Roma blood feuds lead to brutal vendettas, 757 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,800 and where racial prejudice drives lethal violence. 758 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,600 The prison is making an effort 759 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,920 to prepare prisoners for life on the outside. 760 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,640 Yet it seems that many from the most excluded communities 761 00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:46,680 are unwilling to reform. 762 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:51,080 Addressing this challenge will take far wider social change 763 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,120 than this prison can ever achieve on its own. 764 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,120 My time inside one of Romania's toughest prisons 765 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,000 has finally come to an end. 766 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:07,360 But until this country's centuries' old social divisions are healed, 767 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,480 this place has gotta live with a chilling statistic. 768 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,040 Trapped in a cycle of crime, 769 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,920 a disproportionate number of Gypsy people released from these gates 770 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,960 will, in just a short time, end up straight back in prison. 771 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,680 [dramatic music playing]