1 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:25,467 [Desiree] She just lies. She just lies. 2 00:00:25,467 --> 00:00:29,000 She's fake. She knows what she did. 3 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,767 She knew. She made sure he was dead. 4 00:00:31,767 --> 00:00:35,166 Joy is the person who destroyed my life. 5 00:00:35,166 --> 00:00:38,000 She's the person who took away my dad. 6 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,634 She is just a very horrible person. 7 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,734 She repeatedly kept making threats, 8 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,567 and she kept harassing everybody. 9 00:00:57,567 --> 00:01:00,567 I was terrified that she would hurt me too. 10 00:01:00,567 --> 00:01:03,433 It's a feeling I don't want anybody to ever have to feel. 11 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:05,033 It's hard. 12 00:01:06,166 --> 00:01:08,400 [producer] What do you like to remember about him the most? 13 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:12,600 His laugh. 14 00:01:16,467 --> 00:01:17,900 [producer] Do you need to stop? 15 00:01:25,066 --> 00:01:27,834 [The Paper Chase's "What's So Amazing About Grace?" plays] 16 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:30,066 [strings continue playing sinister tune] 17 00:01:30,066 --> 00:01:33,367 [static crackling] 18 00:01:33,367 --> 00:01:37,166 -[knock at door] -[creaking] 19 00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:42,533 -[banging on door] -[creaking] 20 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:48,033 -[banging on door] -[creaking] 21 00:01:48,100 --> 00:01:49,667 [water dripping] 22 00:01:49,667 --> 00:01:52,834 -[banging on door] -[creaking] 23 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:54,800 [sinister chord strikes] 24 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:04,800 [Desiree] It's the first time I did an interview. 25 00:02:05,467 --> 00:02:08,700 It's bringing up a lot of memories that I've blocked out, 26 00:02:09,567 --> 00:02:11,266 that I like to keep hidden. 27 00:02:11,266 --> 00:02:14,934 I don't like to think about it and all the hurt 28 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,500 that I went through. 29 00:02:17,867 --> 00:02:21,300 I was very nervous to do this show, and so were my kids. 30 00:02:22,867 --> 00:02:24,767 I just feel like I'm looking over my shoulder. 31 00:02:24,767 --> 00:02:26,200 You're always wondering... 32 00:02:27,767 --> 00:02:30,400 what's gonna happen, what is she gonna come up with next? 33 00:02:31,467 --> 00:02:33,000 Especially if she got out, 34 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,166 I'd be waiting for something to happen. 35 00:02:36,166 --> 00:02:37,800 But I felt like... 36 00:02:38,667 --> 00:02:41,066 someone had to speak up for my dad. 37 00:02:41,066 --> 00:02:42,500 Someone had... 38 00:02:43,467 --> 00:02:45,767 to be there for him, 39 00:02:45,767 --> 00:02:49,066 to make sure people will know the truth of what kind of 40 00:02:49,066 --> 00:02:50,333 person she is. 41 00:02:58,467 --> 00:03:00,600 It's my dad at his bar, 42 00:03:01,467 --> 00:03:03,000 always smiling, laughing. 43 00:03:03,767 --> 00:03:07,333 Just a happy person, full of life. 44 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:09,900 I looked up to him a lot. 45 00:03:12,066 --> 00:03:14,667 When he was younger, his hair was white, 46 00:03:14,667 --> 00:03:16,300 so they called him Whitey. 47 00:03:17,467 --> 00:03:19,967 He owned Whitey's Bar in Sardinia. 48 00:03:19,967 --> 00:03:21,667 He would enter a room, and everybody would be excited 49 00:03:21,667 --> 00:03:24,433 to see him there -- you could ask anybody. 50 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:26,533 Everybody loved him. 51 00:03:26,533 --> 00:03:29,734 [producer] Is it hard for you to look at that picture? 52 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Do you often look at his picture? 53 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:41,934 You just can't? 54 00:03:52,567 --> 00:03:56,233 [Desiree] I've spent my weekends or any breaks I had from school or any 55 00:03:56,300 --> 00:03:58,934 chance I could, I spent with my dad. 56 00:04:01,166 --> 00:04:02,900 He was also my basketball coach. 57 00:04:04,567 --> 00:04:05,767 Now you try. 58 00:04:05,767 --> 00:04:09,367 And he took time out of his day to have practice with us. 59 00:04:09,367 --> 00:04:11,033 He loved to do it. 60 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:13,367 And he was always a very devoted father. 61 00:04:13,367 --> 00:04:15,166 -Whoo! Nice shot! -[as Desiree] Yeah! 62 00:04:15,166 --> 00:04:17,166 Way to go, kiddo. Do it again. 63 00:04:17,166 --> 00:04:19,233 I didn't get told no very often. 64 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:22,166 I mean, I probably should have sometimes, 65 00:04:22,166 --> 00:04:24,166 but he did anything for me. 66 00:04:24,166 --> 00:04:25,834 If I needed anything, he got it. 67 00:04:25,900 --> 00:04:27,500 He always made sure I was taken care of. 68 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,166 When I was 9 years old, my dad brought me to meet Joy. 69 00:04:31,166 --> 00:04:34,700 They seemed like they got along in the beginning. 70 00:04:35,767 --> 00:04:38,900 Then it all went downhill pretty fast. 71 00:04:57,266 --> 00:04:59,467 My dad and Joy were spending a lot of time together, 72 00:04:59,467 --> 00:05:02,333 and it just -- it moved very fast. 73 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,066 They seemed like they were happy. 74 00:05:04,066 --> 00:05:06,967 Everything seemed to be going good there at the first. 75 00:05:06,967 --> 00:05:07,967 [as Joy laughing] 76 00:05:07,967 --> 00:05:09,567 [Desiree] I think the reason they got along was 77 00:05:09,567 --> 00:05:13,533 because they both own bars. -[as Joy laughing] 78 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,567 [Desiree] She walked into Whitey's and seen him there, 79 00:05:15,567 --> 00:05:18,000 and she said that she wanted to be with him 80 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,800 is the story I was told. 81 00:05:22,266 --> 00:05:26,634 When I met her for the first time, she was this tall, 82 00:05:26,700 --> 00:05:28,300 high energy, very loud, 83 00:05:29,066 --> 00:05:30,467 kind of in-your-face type of person. 84 00:05:30,467 --> 00:05:33,133 Your dad tells me you're quite the basketball player. 85 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,000 I'm a quiet person, and I didn't like to be 86 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,767 bothered, really. 87 00:05:37,767 --> 00:05:40,667 And she was just kind of, like, in my face, just kind of kept 88 00:05:40,667 --> 00:05:43,667 asking me questions. -That's so great! 89 00:05:43,667 --> 00:05:47,166 I'm gonna have to come see one of your games sometime. 90 00:05:47,166 --> 00:05:49,266 I just had this weird feeling there was something about 91 00:05:49,266 --> 00:05:51,066 her that I didn't like. 92 00:05:51,066 --> 00:05:54,333 I felt like she was trying too hard to get me to like her 93 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,567 or try to just push herself on me -- it was weird for me. 94 00:05:58,567 --> 00:06:01,033 There was just something about her. 95 00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:03,634 I felt like she was trying to impress me way too much 96 00:06:03,700 --> 00:06:05,133 at that time. 97 00:06:17,767 --> 00:06:20,867 This is Joy and my dad on their cruise. 98 00:06:20,867 --> 00:06:23,033 They had just gotten married. 99 00:06:25,567 --> 00:06:28,166 It was one of the biggest mistakes of his life. 100 00:06:28,166 --> 00:06:30,600 His life went downhill after then. 101 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:32,667 After they had gotten married, 102 00:06:32,667 --> 00:06:35,367 you seen a different side of her. 103 00:06:35,367 --> 00:06:38,800 It was like she had put on an act in the beginning. 104 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:42,367 She was -- when dad had his back turned, 105 00:06:42,367 --> 00:06:44,133 she was a different person. 106 00:06:48,667 --> 00:06:50,100 She wanted to control everything. 107 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,667 She didn't like him being around me, for the most part. 108 00:06:54,667 --> 00:06:57,567 Is it going to be like this every single weekend? 109 00:06:57,567 --> 00:07:00,100 If he was around anybody but her, I felt like 110 00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:01,166 she was upset. 111 00:07:01,166 --> 00:07:04,500 I want to spend time with my husband. 112 00:07:06,467 --> 00:07:08,367 [Desiree] She always wanted to be the center of attention. 113 00:07:08,367 --> 00:07:11,467 She wanted all the attention on her. 114 00:07:11,467 --> 00:07:14,300 She wanted my dad all to herself. 115 00:07:15,567 --> 00:07:17,934 I felt like she was 116 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,000 not happy I was around on the weekends, like, 117 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,100 all the time. 118 00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:23,467 I felt like she wanted more freedom on the weekends. 119 00:07:23,467 --> 00:07:27,333 We can get a babysitter. It's just one night. 120 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,533 [Desiree] When she'd bring up wanting to leave and, like, go out to 121 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,266 the bar or something, he would just tell her, 122 00:07:31,266 --> 00:07:34,100 you know, "I have her this weekend, we cannot go out. 123 00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:35,567 "I'm not gonna leave her somewhere. 124 00:07:35,567 --> 00:07:37,133 I'm gonna stay home with her." 125 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:39,600 Not tonight. 126 00:07:42,667 --> 00:07:45,166 [Desiree] You could just tell by her face. 127 00:07:45,166 --> 00:07:46,533 She was just mad. 128 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:49,000 She just wasn't saying much. 129 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,000 Knew something was definitely wrong with her. 130 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,867 She's very 131 00:07:54,867 --> 00:07:58,800 quiet, just staring you down, just this look of hate in her. 132 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:03,900 I don't think my dad saw that side of her in the beginning. 133 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:16,033 So one day, Joy and I went out to eat, 134 00:08:16,100 --> 00:08:17,567 and someone had walked by. 135 00:08:17,567 --> 00:08:19,367 I don't know if they gave her a weird look or something, 136 00:08:19,367 --> 00:08:22,166 but she kind of snapped and started going off. 137 00:08:22,166 --> 00:08:24,100 [as Joy] What the hell is your problem? 138 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:26,066 [Desiree] She started yelling at 'em -- I stayed quiet. 139 00:08:26,066 --> 00:08:28,567 [as Joy] Look where you're going, you could have killed me. 140 00:08:28,567 --> 00:08:30,467 [Desiree] I think I was just shocked at the time. 141 00:08:30,467 --> 00:08:34,266 Like, why was she mad? They just kept on going. 142 00:08:34,266 --> 00:08:37,367 At that point, I was just kind of ready to go back home to 143 00:08:37,367 --> 00:08:39,333 where my dad was. -Don't walk away from me! 144 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,767 -Get back here! -[Desiree] It was a scary moment. 145 00:08:41,767 --> 00:08:44,367 I didn't understand why she was being that way. 146 00:08:44,367 --> 00:08:47,033 I feel like Joy had another side to her that no one 147 00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:48,834 knew about. 148 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:51,867 I think after that incident, she was in a mood. 149 00:08:51,867 --> 00:08:55,567 I just... I stayed away. 150 00:08:55,567 --> 00:08:58,634 It was just better for me to stay away 151 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:00,800 and be in my own little area. 152 00:09:09,867 --> 00:09:14,367 I remember sitting in the front room, watching cartoons, 153 00:09:14,367 --> 00:09:18,600 and I noticed there was guns in the couch and the chair. 154 00:09:20,567 --> 00:09:22,567 That had never happened in the past. 155 00:09:22,567 --> 00:09:24,166 This was something new. 156 00:09:24,166 --> 00:09:27,867 I started seeing them being under the furniture, 157 00:09:27,867 --> 00:09:32,333 on the stands, in the cushions everywhere, 158 00:09:33,467 --> 00:09:34,634 in the kitchen. 159 00:09:34,634 --> 00:09:38,533 Then it just started happening all throughout the house. 160 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,634 They were just laying out on the ground. 161 00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:42,467 They were laying up against the wall. 162 00:09:42,467 --> 00:09:45,767 It wasn't your typical hunting guns, like locked in a cabinet 163 00:09:45,767 --> 00:09:47,266 or a safe or anything like that. 164 00:09:47,266 --> 00:09:49,333 They were just -- there was handguns. 165 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,567 There was everything laying in there. 166 00:09:50,567 --> 00:09:53,133 Like, especially in one of the bedrooms, they would keep 167 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,834 a lot of them in. 168 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:57,333 I kind of wondered why they were all there. 169 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,133 After seeing the house filled with guns, 170 00:10:00,867 --> 00:10:03,900 there was more to the story -- I knew it wasn't right. 171 00:10:06,367 --> 00:10:09,567 I didn't tell my mom about the guns all in the house, 172 00:10:09,567 --> 00:10:12,367 because I think she would not let me go back. 173 00:10:12,367 --> 00:10:14,100 She wanted to protect me. 174 00:10:18,567 --> 00:10:20,433 I didn't know at the time that's what he was doing, 175 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:22,667 but years later, it kind of confirmed my suspicions 176 00:10:22,667 --> 00:10:24,400 that him and Joy were 177 00:10:25,767 --> 00:10:27,000 involved in drugs. 178 00:10:28,266 --> 00:10:31,634 I think Joy's life was more dangerous 179 00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:33,567 than what we all thought. 180 00:10:33,567 --> 00:10:36,166 And then when they got together, his life started 181 00:10:36,166 --> 00:10:37,800 turning more that way. 182 00:10:40,166 --> 00:10:42,100 I didn't want to stay with her alone. 183 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:45,100 Just after all the arguments and the fights. 184 00:10:49,500 --> 00:10:51,200 I was scared to be with her. 185 00:10:58,266 --> 00:11:01,567 [Desiree] In the beginning, when my dad and Joy got together, 186 00:11:01,567 --> 00:11:04,634 everything was good, but things quickly took a turn. 187 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:09,567 [as Desiree's uncle] What are you thinking? 188 00:11:09,567 --> 00:11:11,767 [Desiree] And one day, my uncle was very serious 189 00:11:11,767 --> 00:11:14,133 with the conversation with my dad. 190 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,467 You could tell it was a very serious conversation going on 191 00:11:16,467 --> 00:11:18,867 between them. -She's a problem. 192 00:11:18,867 --> 00:11:20,200 You don't know her. 193 00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:23,100 [Desiree] I seen my uncle telling my dad 194 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:25,367 that he needed to stay away from Joy. 195 00:11:25,367 --> 00:11:26,867 She wasn't a very good person, 196 00:11:26,867 --> 00:11:29,634 that she was gonna bring him down. 197 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:32,166 I did feel better that someone else was realizing that there 198 00:11:32,166 --> 00:11:34,266 was issues with their relationship. 199 00:11:34,266 --> 00:11:37,667 I mean, I had been worried about him for a while now. 200 00:11:37,667 --> 00:11:40,667 But I thought maybe that he would open his eyes up 201 00:11:40,667 --> 00:11:42,367 and get away from her. 202 00:11:42,367 --> 00:11:44,533 Don't say I didn't warn you. 203 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,533 [Desiree] I wish he'd have listened to anybody that had 204 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,634 told him about her and to stay away. 205 00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:53,433 Now, looking back, I wish I had told him and not just been 206 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:56,467 trying to protect him because I wanted him to be happy. 207 00:11:56,467 --> 00:11:58,266 I wish I had told him what I was feeling. 208 00:11:58,266 --> 00:12:00,266 The reason I didn't say much to my dad 209 00:12:00,266 --> 00:12:02,533 was because I was scared of her. 210 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,934 [Desiree] She's saying that my dad hit her. 211 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,133 I never saw my dad be physical towards her. 212 00:12:42,166 --> 00:12:43,533 She couldn't give him examples. 213 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,767 It was like she was just trying to make them up. 214 00:12:45,767 --> 00:12:49,734 She didn't know if they would see, anybody would see my dad 215 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,734 hit her, because it didn't happen. 216 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,567 She -- the way she was acting was describing her personality, 217 00:12:56,567 --> 00:12:57,800 not his. 218 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:01,867 I never remember him yelling at her. 219 00:13:01,867 --> 00:13:04,667 I always remember him trying to get her to stop. 220 00:13:04,667 --> 00:13:07,000 And if she didn't, he would always try to leave. 221 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,934 I never seen him hurt anybody, 222 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,667 especially -- he wouldn't hurt her. 223 00:13:11,667 --> 00:13:14,133 I mean, she raised her fist to me. 224 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,667 He still didn't touch her. 225 00:13:16,867 --> 00:13:19,333 Makes me angry she's trying to paint him as a bad person, 226 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,233 because he wasn't -- she's describing herself. 227 00:13:23,567 --> 00:13:26,800 Anybody that knew him knows that was not my dad. 228 00:13:36,467 --> 00:13:38,567 Things were getting worse between them. 229 00:13:38,567 --> 00:13:40,333 The fighting was... 230 00:13:41,467 --> 00:13:45,166 getting out of control, just with her yelling at 231 00:13:45,166 --> 00:13:47,266 him nonstop. -Well, what about me, huh? 232 00:13:47,266 --> 00:13:49,233 -What about my needs? -Just calm down. 233 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:51,233 Don't tell me to calm down. 234 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:53,567 [Desiree] I realized that lifestyle was definitely 235 00:13:53,567 --> 00:13:56,433 not normal for the way 236 00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:59,266 the fights were going on, the controlling issues, 237 00:13:59,266 --> 00:14:01,667 just everything in general 238 00:14:01,667 --> 00:14:03,667 in their whole life was just not right. 239 00:14:03,667 --> 00:14:05,266 You always have to be the hero! 240 00:14:05,266 --> 00:14:07,000 [Desiree] He didn't want me to see them fighting. 241 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,467 He always tried to keep the peace. 242 00:14:08,467 --> 00:14:11,066 He didn't want me to ever see that anything was wrong. 243 00:14:11,066 --> 00:14:12,567 Not in front of her. 244 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,533 [Desiree] One of the first times I remember her being physical, 245 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,000 my dad was going to my grandma's house to help her, 246 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,734 and Joy did not like my dad going there to help her. 247 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,266 And she was mad and was attacking him. 248 00:14:25,266 --> 00:14:27,266 You're not leaving this house! 249 00:14:27,266 --> 00:14:28,367 [Desiree] She ripped his shirt off. 250 00:14:28,367 --> 00:14:31,367 -[shouting] -No! Get off of me! 251 00:14:31,367 --> 00:14:34,367 I think she was mad because she was controlling. 252 00:14:34,367 --> 00:14:37,567 She wanted to make sure he was right there 253 00:14:37,567 --> 00:14:39,533 beside her at all times. 254 00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:42,934 You could tell he was stressed out. 255 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,000 He was upset. 256 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,867 You could see it on my dad's face that, you know, 257 00:14:47,867 --> 00:14:53,333 he wasn't happy and that things were just different with him. 258 00:14:54,967 --> 00:14:56,567 It made me feel sad. 259 00:14:56,567 --> 00:14:59,200 I didn't like seeing him feeling down like that. 260 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,567 I just kept it all to myself, mostly, like all my emotions 261 00:15:03,567 --> 00:15:05,433 about everything, I kept to myself, 262 00:15:06,166 --> 00:15:07,867 because I didn't want no one knowing. 263 00:15:07,867 --> 00:15:10,133 I wanted to make sure I could still go on the weekends 264 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,433 and see him, and I figured if I just didn't say nothing, 265 00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:14,133 things would get better. 266 00:15:25,867 --> 00:15:28,133 I just remember sitting in my grandma's living room, 267 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,066 and he was on the phone, and his shirt was actually 268 00:15:31,066 --> 00:15:34,767 laying on the couch behind him, and she kept calling repeatedly. 269 00:15:34,767 --> 00:15:38,467 -[as Donald] You need to stop. -[Desiree] And she didn't stop. 270 00:15:38,467 --> 00:15:40,767 [Desiree] She just kept calling and calling and calling. 271 00:15:40,767 --> 00:15:42,767 You could tell he was aggravated. 272 00:15:42,767 --> 00:15:44,000 Stop calling. 273 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,166 [Desiree] She wouldn't stop. 274 00:15:47,266 --> 00:15:49,667 He would just try to talk to her, try to get her to stop 275 00:15:49,667 --> 00:15:50,934 yelling and screaming. 276 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,367 But I think that just made her worse. 277 00:15:53,367 --> 00:15:56,333 [phone ringing] 278 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,100 And he finally just wouldn't answer the phone. 279 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:00,300 [phone ringing] 280 00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:02,567 I think she was getting aggravated because it just kept 281 00:16:02,567 --> 00:16:03,600 ringing and ringing, 282 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,934 and I think they finally just took it off the hook. 283 00:16:07,667 --> 00:16:09,533 I never experienced anything like that. 284 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,166 I know my grandmother never experienced anything like that. 285 00:16:13,166 --> 00:16:17,166 Just seeing how it affected his brothers, his mom, 286 00:16:17,166 --> 00:16:20,000 friends -- she tore my family apart. 287 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,700 I've asked myself many times what my dad seen in her. 288 00:16:29,967 --> 00:16:32,533 She was a bad influence in his life, because his life 289 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,400 completely changed when she came into the picture. 290 00:16:44,467 --> 00:16:46,967 One night, I was at my dad and Joy's house. 291 00:16:46,967 --> 00:16:49,634 It was late at night, there was 292 00:16:50,467 --> 00:16:51,567 a knock on the door. 293 00:16:51,567 --> 00:16:54,100 [knocking noises] 294 00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:57,433 When I woke up, I woke up from the commotion downstairs. 295 00:16:57,500 --> 00:16:59,533 I could hear something was going on. 296 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,867 -What the hell was that? -Oh, I have no idea. 297 00:17:02,867 --> 00:17:06,166 [Desiree] And I just remember walking down the stairs, and I asked 298 00:17:06,166 --> 00:17:07,500 what was going on. 299 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:10,333 They just told me to get back to bed. 300 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,400 There was nothing going on. 301 00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:17,800 I knew something was wrong, I just didn't know what it was. 302 00:17:19,667 --> 00:17:23,233 And I just went back up to my room and just stayed away. 303 00:17:24,967 --> 00:17:27,266 That moment was very scary for me. 304 00:17:27,266 --> 00:17:28,934 I was terrified. 305 00:17:30,367 --> 00:17:34,133 And come to find out later, um, 306 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,467 when I asked questions about it, 307 00:17:35,467 --> 00:17:37,533 they said someone had just knocked on the door 308 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,233 and that they had left when they got to the door. 309 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:46,266 It always makes me wonder, like, was someone at the door 310 00:17:46,266 --> 00:17:47,800 that night to hurt him then? 311 00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:52,433 And then the person at the door hears everybody up and realized 312 00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:55,266 that it was a house full of people, or if he just got 313 00:17:55,266 --> 00:17:56,500 scared and took off. 314 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,166 I always thought that maybe she was planning to kill my dad 315 00:18:02,166 --> 00:18:03,567 that night. 316 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,367 She's saying in that video that everybody hated my dad. 317 00:18:34,367 --> 00:18:35,834 She was completely lying. 318 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:38,333 It was the other way around, that everybody loved him, 319 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,233 and no one knew why he married her. 320 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:44,533 I mean, the stories you hear that, you know, he'd be out 321 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,767 playing pool, and he would buy rounds of drinks for everybody. 322 00:18:48,767 --> 00:18:50,533 I don't think I ever met anybody 323 00:18:51,567 --> 00:18:54,967 tried to argue with him besides her. 324 00:18:54,967 --> 00:18:57,667 I think she said it because she was trying to make it look 325 00:18:57,667 --> 00:18:59,367 like he was hated, 326 00:18:59,367 --> 00:19:01,433 there was reason for someone to kill him. 327 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:03,266 She didn't want any blame on her. 328 00:19:03,266 --> 00:19:05,600 It just shows you what type of person she was. 329 00:19:21,166 --> 00:19:23,734 One day, I remember, they had a huge argument. 330 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,233 They were fighting, but I don't remember 331 00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:26,500 what they were fighting about. 332 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:28,567 I just remember she was just screaming, and she just looked 333 00:19:28,567 --> 00:19:31,533 so mad. -[laughing] Get back here. 334 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,767 What are you doing? 335 00:19:32,767 --> 00:19:35,767 I felt like she was just filled with anger. 336 00:19:35,767 --> 00:19:37,567 Don't you walk away from me! 337 00:19:37,567 --> 00:19:40,000 [Desiree] We got in the vehicle, but the vehicle wouldn't start. 338 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,266 Get out of the car! 339 00:19:41,266 --> 00:19:42,734 [Desiree] After my dad locked the doors, 340 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,367 she picked up a stick or some 341 00:19:45,367 --> 00:19:47,433 kind of piece of wood and started hitting the vehicle 342 00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:48,834 and trying to break the windows. 343 00:19:50,266 --> 00:19:53,433 She was hitting the vehicle and just acting crazy. 344 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:55,567 ...of the car! 345 00:19:55,567 --> 00:19:57,667 I kept leaning over towards the driver's seat to get out. 346 00:19:57,667 --> 00:19:59,333 Like, I was afraid she was going to break the window. 347 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,567 And my dad was grabbing ahold of me to pull me over toward 348 00:20:01,567 --> 00:20:02,667 the driver's seat. 349 00:20:02,667 --> 00:20:05,734 -[pounding noises] -[as Joy] Come on! 350 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,834 I thought she was going to get in the vehicle 351 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:09,100 and hurt me or him. 352 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:10,300 [as Joy] Get out of there! 353 00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:12,266 [Desiree] In that moment, I just wanted her to stop screaming 354 00:20:12,266 --> 00:20:13,667 and just hitting the vehicle. 355 00:20:13,667 --> 00:20:15,066 Unlock the door! 356 00:20:15,066 --> 00:20:18,133 [Desiree] I didn't know what she was going to do or what happened if 357 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,667 she did get in the vehicle. -[screams] 358 00:20:19,667 --> 00:20:21,567 [Desiree] I remember her screaming and just hate 359 00:20:21,567 --> 00:20:25,500 in her eyes, this black, dark look. 360 00:20:27,567 --> 00:20:30,166 My dad was scared, and I could tell he was frustrated. 361 00:20:30,166 --> 00:20:32,266 He wanted her just to stop. 362 00:20:32,266 --> 00:20:34,767 She was just going around the vehicle, 363 00:20:34,767 --> 00:20:38,233 hitting the vehicle -- when he got out... 364 00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:39,934 Come on, Whitey! 365 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,467 ...she was reaching across, -[grunts loudly] 366 00:20:41,467 --> 00:20:42,834 trying to get the keys out. 367 00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:44,533 Give me the keys. Give me the keys, Whitey! 368 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:45,867 [Desiree] I remember grabbing the keys, because I didn't 369 00:20:45,867 --> 00:20:47,734 want her to have them, -Enough! 370 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:48,867 because I wanted to get away from her. 371 00:20:48,867 --> 00:20:50,900 Get off me! 372 00:20:52,166 --> 00:20:55,600 I was scared, terrified of her. 373 00:21:27,100 --> 00:21:28,967 [Desiree] That was me talking to the investigators. 374 00:21:28,967 --> 00:21:31,333 I would have been 11 years old. 375 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,166 It's hard, because I don't really remember 376 00:21:40,166 --> 00:21:43,433 being invest -- or being questioned about it. 377 00:21:44,867 --> 00:21:46,600 And it sounds like I was scared. 378 00:21:49,667 --> 00:21:52,533 It shows you she's crazy. 379 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,900 She doesn't care for anybody else but herself. 380 00:21:55,767 --> 00:22:00,467 That she would hurt a child or yell at a child who wasn't 381 00:22:00,467 --> 00:22:04,800 doing anything -- she had some serious issues. 382 00:22:07,667 --> 00:22:10,467 I should have a good memory of Christmas with him, 383 00:22:10,467 --> 00:22:11,767 and I don't. 384 00:22:11,767 --> 00:22:13,066 [phone ringing] 385 00:22:13,066 --> 00:22:16,333 I just remember sitting in my grandma's living room 386 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,033 and her calling nonstop, just harassing him. 387 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:21,567 [phone ringing] 388 00:22:21,567 --> 00:22:22,767 The threats were getting worse. 389 00:22:22,767 --> 00:22:24,533 She threatened him all the time. 390 00:22:25,367 --> 00:22:26,734 Hello? 391 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,667 She told me that she was going to have my dad killed. 392 00:22:31,667 --> 00:22:34,033 [as Joy] Tell your father he's a dead man. 393 00:22:34,867 --> 00:22:37,233 [Desiree] That moment was very scary for me. 394 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:40,200 I was terrified of her. I hung up on her. 395 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,867 No kid should have to listen to someone threatening to kill 396 00:22:43,867 --> 00:22:45,433 their father on Christmas Eve. 397 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:52,433 I didn't think he thought his wife would have him killed, 398 00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:56,233 that she was just threatening him because she was mad. 399 00:23:09,467 --> 00:23:13,533 In January 1997, they were getting along well. 400 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,166 Everything seemed to be going better between them. 401 00:23:15,166 --> 00:23:17,333 They were going to work on things. 402 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,567 She seemed to be acting better. He seemed to be happy. 403 00:23:20,567 --> 00:23:22,266 Like, it was nice to actually 404 00:23:22,266 --> 00:23:25,567 not have to listen to them fight. 405 00:23:25,567 --> 00:23:27,567 They were looking to buy a house together, 406 00:23:27,567 --> 00:23:29,867 closer to the bars. 407 00:23:29,867 --> 00:23:32,166 Joy was the one showing me a lot of the house. 408 00:23:32,166 --> 00:23:34,567 Like, she was showing me, like, look at this. 409 00:23:34,567 --> 00:23:36,367 This is gonna be your room. 410 00:23:36,367 --> 00:23:38,634 And they said they were going to buy the house. 411 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:41,934 And they seemed happy that day. 412 00:23:43,266 --> 00:23:46,667 I was excited because, you know, they were getting 413 00:23:46,667 --> 00:23:48,734 this house, it was closer to everybody. 414 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,767 Like, it was just down the road from everything. 415 00:23:51,767 --> 00:23:55,166 And then that Sunday evening, we said, "Bye, I love you. 416 00:23:55,166 --> 00:23:57,000 See you tomorrow at basketball practice." 417 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,233 He was just happy. He was happy. 418 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:04,600 He was laughing. Everything was just normal. 419 00:24:08,166 --> 00:24:11,233 Looking back, I think she was being fake that day. 420 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,200 I think it was all an act. 421 00:24:16,867 --> 00:24:19,000 Because I felt like she knew something was going to happen. 422 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,000 She was going to do something soon. 423 00:24:22,767 --> 00:24:26,133 My dad kept saying, "Just always remember, if something ever 424 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,767 happens to me, how much I love you." 425 00:24:27,767 --> 00:24:29,734 That's what he -- I remember him telling me that. 426 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,567 And I kept thinking, why is he saying this? 427 00:24:31,567 --> 00:24:33,734 Like, why does he keep telling me this? 428 00:24:38,867 --> 00:24:41,967 [Desiree] I have a family now. He should be here to see them. 429 00:24:41,967 --> 00:24:44,233 I wish I had told my father 430 00:24:45,667 --> 00:24:47,367 the feelings I had towards her. 431 00:24:47,367 --> 00:24:49,000 I think maybe it would have opened up his eyes 432 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,000 a little bit more. 433 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,367 It's not fair, because she's taken everything away from me. 434 00:24:55,367 --> 00:24:58,233 You don't want someone to come in your life and destroy it 435 00:24:58,300 --> 00:24:59,900 like she destroyed mine. 436 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,667 [Desiree] So the next day, I went to school that morning. 437 00:25:08,667 --> 00:25:10,867 And my grandma's house was right down the street 438 00:25:10,867 --> 00:25:11,967 from where I went to school at. 439 00:25:11,967 --> 00:25:13,800 I could see her house from the school. 440 00:25:15,266 --> 00:25:17,667 I looked down to see if my dad was down at my grandma's, 441 00:25:17,667 --> 00:25:20,133 because usually he goes and checks on her. 442 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,600 And I noticed his car wasn't there. 443 00:25:24,367 --> 00:25:26,567 And a few minutes later, 444 00:25:26,567 --> 00:25:29,033 the staff had came out to get me. 445 00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:32,467 And my grandmother was there to pick me up. 446 00:25:32,467 --> 00:25:34,567 And it looks like she's crying. 447 00:25:34,567 --> 00:25:37,734 I'm so sorry. 448 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,500 I remember her telling me that he had been killed. 449 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:52,834 And I just remember screaming. 450 00:25:56,266 --> 00:25:57,934 I asked if she was involved. 451 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,033 And I don't remember much after that. 452 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,100 That he had been killed at her bar. 453 00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:17,934 And I wanted to know who did it. 454 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,367 Like I... 455 00:26:19,367 --> 00:26:21,266 wanted to make sure they had the person that did it. 456 00:26:21,266 --> 00:26:22,700 And they said they did. 457 00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:06,066 It was Joy saying that my dad carried cash in his jacket 458 00:27:06,066 --> 00:27:09,967 pockets and that the reason they carry that much cash in 459 00:27:09,967 --> 00:27:11,767 their wallet is because they got people out of jail 460 00:27:11,767 --> 00:27:13,266 for DUIs. 461 00:27:15,467 --> 00:27:19,700 And I've never once heard that or heard my dad mention that. 462 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,033 I do not. 463 00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:32,000 When they arrested Carl, he had my dad's wallet. 464 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,066 [officer] A billfold belonging to who we believe may be the victim in 465 00:27:37,066 --> 00:27:39,634 this, a Donald Ray Hoop. 466 00:27:41,166 --> 00:27:42,867 [Desiree] My dad was always known to carry 467 00:27:42,867 --> 00:27:44,734 large sums of cash on him. 468 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,233 I always noticed, like, when he was getting ready in 469 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:50,467 the mornings, his wallet laying on the stand. 470 00:27:50,467 --> 00:27:54,266 And he would always have large sums of cash in there. 471 00:27:54,266 --> 00:27:57,266 They carried a large sum of cash on them because they both 472 00:27:57,266 --> 00:27:58,367 were involved in drugs. 473 00:27:59,767 --> 00:28:01,467 I didn't know at the time that's what he was doing, 474 00:28:01,467 --> 00:28:05,266 but years later, it was obvious why he had so much cash on him. 475 00:28:05,266 --> 00:28:08,233 When I was younger, I didn't think him carrying around that 476 00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:10,166 amount of money was an issue. 477 00:28:10,166 --> 00:28:14,767 When you do look back, that's not usually the case, 478 00:28:14,767 --> 00:28:16,667 and it's usually not the normal thing to do. 479 00:28:16,667 --> 00:28:20,000 I knew something wasn't right. I said there was more to it. 480 00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:28,066 Is that Carl when he first did it? 481 00:28:28,066 --> 00:28:32,533 I don't remember him hardly. It was so long ago. 482 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:46,166 Yeah, kind of looks like he's got a smirk on his face. 483 00:28:46,166 --> 00:28:47,967 Makes it look like he didn't care, 484 00:28:47,967 --> 00:28:51,166 like he was happy with what he'd done. 485 00:28:51,166 --> 00:28:53,700 I never heard of Carl Lindsey before this happened. 486 00:28:54,767 --> 00:28:58,567 Carl Lindsey is someone who took away someone who meant 487 00:28:58,567 --> 00:29:01,934 everything to me -- he took away my dad. 488 00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:06,700 He has turned my life upside down. 489 00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:13,000 He is a person that took him away in such a horrible way. 490 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,600 Like, he didn't think twice about it. 491 00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:38,867 The first time I saw her after that was at the visitation. 492 00:29:38,867 --> 00:29:42,133 And I knew something wasn't right. 493 00:29:45,166 --> 00:29:46,900 When I went to my dad's visitation, 494 00:29:48,166 --> 00:29:51,133 she had a closed casket, no one was allowed to see him. 495 00:29:52,166 --> 00:29:54,266 She was running around the funeral home, 496 00:29:54,266 --> 00:29:56,734 chatting it up with everybody, 497 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,166 acting like she was the life of a party. 498 00:29:59,166 --> 00:30:00,867 [distant laughter] 499 00:30:00,867 --> 00:30:03,533 [Desiree] It's not normal, very unusual. 500 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,533 Why would you laugh and be carrying on 501 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,000 at your husband's funeral? 502 00:30:09,667 --> 00:30:11,166 She didn't even stay by the casket. 503 00:30:11,166 --> 00:30:13,266 She kept running around the whole funeral home. 504 00:30:13,266 --> 00:30:14,367 And I was sitting there crying. 505 00:30:14,367 --> 00:30:15,967 And I was like, why is she so happy? 506 00:30:15,967 --> 00:30:17,667 Why is she laughing and carrying on? 507 00:30:17,667 --> 00:30:18,834 Why is she not crying? 508 00:30:20,767 --> 00:30:22,467 I didn't understand why someone would be acting that way. 509 00:30:22,467 --> 00:30:23,934 They just lost their husband. 510 00:30:25,066 --> 00:30:28,033 I was pretty sure then that she did something, because why 511 00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,266 would you be laughing and acting like everything's 512 00:30:31,266 --> 00:30:32,800 fine at your husband's funeral? 513 00:30:34,767 --> 00:30:37,100 Joy was being extra nice. Like, it was weird. 514 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:39,934 Like, why was she being this nice to me? 515 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,900 I pretended to be nice to Joy, because I was afraid of her. 516 00:30:44,166 --> 00:30:46,333 I was afraid she was gonna hurt me, too. 517 00:30:47,767 --> 00:30:49,934 I think she thought if she showed interest in me, 518 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,600 it would make her look a lot better. 519 00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:56,133 She would rather keep putting on a good act to make sure 520 00:30:57,967 --> 00:30:59,934 I thought she was not guilty. 521 00:31:14,967 --> 00:31:17,000 We had a basketball game. 522 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,834 She came to the basketball game. 523 00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:21,967 She was very quiet, wasn't saying much. 524 00:31:21,967 --> 00:31:23,834 After the game, she talked to me outside. 525 00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:26,166 Hi. Can I speak to you for a sec? 526 00:31:26,166 --> 00:31:27,967 [Desiree] I just didn't understand why she was there. 527 00:31:27,967 --> 00:31:28,934 Yeah. 528 00:31:28,934 --> 00:31:30,767 [Desiree] She didn't come before -- why now? 529 00:31:30,767 --> 00:31:33,100 She acted very nervous when we were talking, 530 00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:35,133 like something was bothering her. 531 00:31:36,266 --> 00:31:38,133 She's like, "I would never hurt your dad." 532 00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:42,767 You know I loved your father. 533 00:31:42,767 --> 00:31:43,934 And she asked, she's like, 534 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,834 "Do you think I would hurt your dad? 535 00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:48,333 [as Joy] I'm not capable of harming him. 536 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,333 [Desiree] She was just staring at me to see my reaction. 537 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,734 She was questioning me a lot. 538 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,033 I felt like she was trying to get 539 00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:56,467 a lot of information out of me. 540 00:31:56,467 --> 00:31:59,367 And it kind of worried me as to why she wanted 541 00:31:59,367 --> 00:32:01,166 that information. 542 00:32:01,166 --> 00:32:03,867 She wanted to make sure she made the point clear that 543 00:32:03,867 --> 00:32:06,734 she would not do anything. -Right? 544 00:32:07,567 --> 00:32:09,133 [Desiree] I felt like it was a tense moment. 545 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,767 She's very serious, wanted to make sure I understood. 546 00:32:11,767 --> 00:32:16,166 I was just agreeing with her just so she would stop, 547 00:32:16,166 --> 00:32:18,200 so she wouldn't suspect anything. 548 00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:22,467 I don't think at the time she thought I was 549 00:32:22,467 --> 00:32:23,700 thinking that. 550 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:26,834 I think she was willing to do whatever it took to make sure 551 00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:29,333 everybody thought she was not involved. 552 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,834 OK. OK. 553 00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:35,433 Good. Good. 554 00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:37,433 [Desiree] She would rather keep putting on a good act 555 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:40,533 to make sure I thought she was not guilty. 556 00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:44,333 I knew then that she had something to do with it. 557 00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:01,567 When I found out she got arrested, it was a sense of 558 00:33:01,567 --> 00:33:04,634 relief and hope that something would be done. 559 00:33:05,767 --> 00:33:10,333 I needed to hear what Joy's part was in it, to know all 560 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,367 the details of what happened, much as possible, just so 561 00:33:13,367 --> 00:33:16,700 I could have some sense of what happened that night. 562 00:33:18,066 --> 00:33:19,300 That was my dad. 563 00:33:19,967 --> 00:33:21,533 You know, he wasn't mean to her. 564 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,400 I mean, what reason did she have to hurt him? 565 00:34:33,467 --> 00:34:35,233 She said she was joking. 566 00:34:37,166 --> 00:34:38,734 I knew she wasn't joking. 567 00:34:40,567 --> 00:34:42,367 She's struggling to be honest 568 00:34:42,367 --> 00:34:44,834 about what really happened that night. 569 00:34:45,700 --> 00:34:48,634 I think she wanted him dead for a while. 570 00:34:50,767 --> 00:34:54,734 They were fighting, and her anger got the best of her. 571 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,567 She thought she could make it look like he was robbed because 572 00:34:57,567 --> 00:35:00,100 he had a large amount of cash on him. 573 00:35:00,166 --> 00:35:02,133 And there would be no suspicions that she was 574 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,734 planning on killing my dad. 575 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:20,300 Joy was setting both my father and Carl up. 576 00:35:21,567 --> 00:35:23,834 She wanted to make sure Carl 577 00:35:24,767 --> 00:35:27,000 had a reason to kill my father. 578 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,767 There was money in his wallet. 579 00:35:28,767 --> 00:35:30,767 He could have the money and go on. 580 00:35:30,767 --> 00:35:35,133 And she wouldn't be looked at as 581 00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:38,066 like she had something to do with it. 582 00:35:38,066 --> 00:35:41,133 The only thing that he was offered was what cash 583 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,333 was in my dad's wallet. 584 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,533 They said during the trial that Joy had kept repeatedly calling 585 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,133 Whitey's bar to get my dad to go to her bar to pick her up. 586 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,133 And they had been fighting. 587 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,533 And she wanted him to hurry up and get to her bar. 588 00:36:00,567 --> 00:36:02,934 My dad pulled into her bar. 589 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,600 And then Carl was waiting on him in the parking lot. 590 00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:10,500 Carl told me all the steps that had happened that night. 591 00:36:11,367 --> 00:36:13,166 He shot him the first time. 592 00:36:13,166 --> 00:36:15,266 Then my dad got out, and they had fought. 593 00:36:15,266 --> 00:36:17,767 And then my dad had fallen to the ground. 594 00:36:17,767 --> 00:36:20,767 After my dad had fallen, the gun had jammed. 595 00:36:20,767 --> 00:36:22,600 He walked inside the bar, 596 00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:25,467 inside the doorway, and she was there. 597 00:36:25,467 --> 00:36:27,367 She got the gun and unjammed it. 598 00:36:27,367 --> 00:36:31,634 And that's when Carl shot him the second time. 599 00:36:44,867 --> 00:36:47,166 I remember being called and told he received 600 00:36:47,166 --> 00:36:48,433 the death penalty. 601 00:36:49,567 --> 00:36:51,033 And I was just relieved. 602 00:36:53,066 --> 00:36:56,767 Carl said that he was on drugs and alcohol that night. 603 00:36:56,767 --> 00:36:59,900 If he was in the right frame of mind, he wouldn't have done it. 604 00:37:02,066 --> 00:37:06,934 Carl was a pawn in her game that she had, but it does not 605 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,533 give him an excuse to get off death row. 606 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,734 He did it. 607 00:37:12,266 --> 00:37:14,266 He's the one that killed him. 608 00:37:14,266 --> 00:37:17,567 She used Carl every way possible to get what 609 00:37:17,567 --> 00:37:20,233 she wanted, and she thought she'd be free of it all. 610 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,400 Joy got 25 years to life with the chance of parole. 611 00:37:28,166 --> 00:37:29,367 I didn't think it was fair. 612 00:37:29,367 --> 00:37:32,767 I feel like she should spend the rest of her life in there. 613 00:37:32,767 --> 00:37:34,734 I don't think she should ever have a chance at parole. 614 00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:39,166 Joy's as much as to blame as Carl is. 615 00:37:39,166 --> 00:37:41,867 I think Joy thought she would get away with it, 616 00:37:41,867 --> 00:37:44,166 that they both would get away with it, with having Carl 617 00:37:44,166 --> 00:37:45,867 rob him. 618 00:37:45,867 --> 00:37:49,166 And she thought she would be done and there'd be no more 619 00:37:49,166 --> 00:37:50,934 reason for anybody to look into it. 620 00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:11,934 When I met with Joy, I asked her why she did it, and she said 621 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,667 that she didn't plan it, she didn't want him dead. 622 00:38:14,667 --> 00:38:16,734 It got blown out of proportion. 623 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,834 Things got way out of hand, it's not what it seems. 624 00:38:20,667 --> 00:38:23,467 And I wanted to hear her say I'm sorry for my part or take 625 00:38:23,467 --> 00:38:26,767 some responsibility for it, and she never did. 626 00:38:26,767 --> 00:38:28,567 I've never heard her say I'm sorry. 627 00:38:28,567 --> 00:38:30,300 I don't think she ever will. 628 00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:41,667 I think Joy wanted me to believe she was innocent, 629 00:38:41,667 --> 00:38:43,700 like it was Carl's 630 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:45,900 plan to do it. 631 00:38:47,467 --> 00:38:49,333 I'll never believe she's innocent. 632 00:38:53,867 --> 00:38:57,900 I told Joy that I did not forgive her for what she did. 633 00:39:00,066 --> 00:39:02,367 I didn't understand how she could take someone away 634 00:39:02,367 --> 00:39:06,300 who did everything for everybody, including herself. 635 00:39:07,367 --> 00:39:08,834 She destroyed my family. 636 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,834 She turned my life upside down. 637 00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:15,467 When I walked out of the room, it was a weight off my shoulders 638 00:39:15,467 --> 00:39:18,133 that she finally got to hear how I felt. 639 00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:24,967 Joy and Carl has taken away everything from me. 640 00:39:24,967 --> 00:39:27,400 Not just me and my family, he's missed every... 641 00:39:29,367 --> 00:39:33,400 big event in my life, he's missed... 642 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:38,767 his brother's events, he's missed everything. 643 00:39:38,767 --> 00:39:42,066 He's not even there just when you need someone to talk to 644 00:39:42,066 --> 00:39:44,033 or get to see him. 645 00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:48,000 I want to 646 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:48,967 keep his memory alive. 647 00:39:48,967 --> 00:39:53,634 I want to make sure they know that he wasn't 648 00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:57,700 this mean person to her, as she says he is, 649 00:39:59,867 --> 00:40:03,467 that he was the most loving person anybody could imagine. 650 00:40:03,467 --> 00:40:04,934 He would help anybody. 651 00:40:25,900 --> 00:40:28,600 I feel like she should be in there for the rest of her life. 652 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,667 I don't think it would ever be justice as long as she has 653 00:40:32,667 --> 00:40:36,066 a chance of being paroled, 654 00:40:36,066 --> 00:40:39,667 because she's just as much as to blame as he is. 655 00:40:39,667 --> 00:40:44,333 One day, she could be out, and I could see her out somewhere, 656 00:40:46,266 --> 00:40:48,600 and that's a very scary thought to see her out somewhere. 657 00:40:49,367 --> 00:40:52,767 She's someone who has made me look over my shoulder since 658 00:40:52,767 --> 00:40:55,133 I was 10 years old, who took away my father, 659 00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:59,834 and will never admit her wrongdoing. 660 00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:04,200 That explains who she is. She's a very evil person. 661 00:41:11,066 --> 00:41:13,767 ♪♪ 662 00:41:13,767 --> 00:41:16,000 When we got there blood was everywhere. 663 00:41:17,266 --> 00:41:20,133 She was screaming on the ground. 664 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,033 He's gone! [sobbing] 665 00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:28,834 The act he committed on that day is nothing less than evil. 666 00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:30,100 ♪♪