[Desiree] She just lies. She just lies.
She's fake. She knows what she did.
She knew. She made sure he was dead.
Joy is the person who destroyed my life.
She's the person who took away my dad.
She is just a very horrible person.
She repeatedly kept making threats,
and she kept harassing everybody.
I was terrified that she would hurt me too.
It's a feeling I don't want anybody to ever have to feel.
It's hard.
[producer] What do you like to remember about him the most?
His laugh.
[producer] Do you need to stop?
[The Paper Chase's "What's So Amazing About Grace?" plays]
[strings continue playing sinister tune]
[static crackling]
-[knock at door] -[creaking]
-[banging on door] -[creaking]
[water dripping]
-[banging on door] -[creaking]
[sinister chord strikes]
[Desiree] It's the first time I did an interview.
It's bringing up a lot of memories that I've blocked out,
that I like to keep hidden.
I don't like to think about it and all the hurt
that I went through.
I was very nervous to do this show, and so were my kids.
I just feel like I'm looking over my shoulder.
You're always wondering...
what's gonna happen, what is she gonna come up with next?
Especially if she got out,
I'd be waiting for something to happen.
But I felt like...
someone had to speak up for my dad.
Someone had...
to be there for him,
to make sure people will know the truth of what kind of
person she is.
It's my dad at his bar,
always smiling, laughing.
Just a happy person, full of life.
I looked up to him a lot.
When he was younger, his hair was white,
so they called him Whitey.
He owned Whitey's Bar in Sardinia.
He would enter a room, and everybody would be excited
to see him there -- you could ask anybody.
Everybody loved him.
[producer] Is it hard for you to look at that picture?
Do you often look at his picture?
You just can't?
[Desiree] I've spent my weekends or any breaks I had from school or any
chance I could, I spent with my dad.
He was also my basketball coach.
Now you try.
And he took time out of his day to have practice with us.
He loved to do it.
And he was always a very devoted father.
-Whoo! Nice shot! -[as Desiree] Yeah!
Way to go, kiddo. Do it again.
I didn't get told no very often.
I mean, I probably should have sometimes,
but he did anything for me.
If I needed anything, he got it.
He always made sure I was taken care of.
When I was 9 years old, my dad brought me to meet Joy.
They seemed like they got along in the beginning.
Then it all went downhill pretty fast.
My dad and Joy were spending a lot of time together,
and it just -- it moved very fast.
They seemed like they were happy.
Everything seemed to be going good there at the first.
[as Joy laughing]
[Desiree] I think the reason they got along was
because they both own bars. -[as Joy laughing]
[Desiree] She walked into Whitey's and seen him there,
and she said that she wanted to be with him
is the story I was told.
When I met her for the first time, she was this tall,
high energy, very loud,
kind of in-your-face type of person.
Your dad tells me you're quite the basketball player.
I'm a quiet person, and I didn't like to be
bothered, really.
And she was just kind of, like, in my face, just kind of kept
asking me questions. -That's so great!
I'm gonna have to come see one of your games sometime.
I just had this weird feeling there was something about
her that I didn't like.
I felt like she was trying too hard to get me to like her
or try to just push herself on me -- it was weird for me.
There was just something about her.
I felt like she was trying to impress me way too much
at that time.
This is Joy and my dad on their cruise.
They had just gotten married.
It was one of the biggest mistakes of his life.
His life went downhill after then.
After they had gotten married,
you seen a different side of her.
It was like she had put on an act in the beginning.
She was -- when dad had his back turned,
she was a different person.
She wanted to control everything.
She didn't like him being around me, for the most part.
Is it going to be like this every single weekend?
If he was around anybody but her, I felt like
she was upset.
I want to spend time with my husband.
[Desiree] She always wanted to be the center of attention.
She wanted all the attention on her.
She wanted my dad all to herself.
I felt like she was
not happy I was around on the weekends, like,
all the time.
I felt like she wanted more freedom on the weekends.
We can get a babysitter. It's just one night.
[Desiree] When she'd bring up wanting to leave and, like, go out to
the bar or something, he would just tell her,
you know, "I have her this weekend, we cannot go out.
"I'm not gonna leave her somewhere.
I'm gonna stay home with her."
Not tonight.
[Desiree] You could just tell by her face.
She was just mad.
She just wasn't saying much.
Knew something was definitely wrong with her.
She's very
quiet, just staring you down, just this look of hate in her.
I don't think my dad saw that side of her in the beginning.
So one day, Joy and I went out to eat,
and someone had walked by.
I don't know if they gave her a weird look or something,
but she kind of snapped and started going off.
[as Joy] What the hell is your problem?
[Desiree] She started yelling at 'em -- I stayed quiet.
[as Joy] Look where you're going, you could have killed me.
[Desiree] I think I was just shocked at the time.
Like, why was she mad? They just kept on going.
At that point, I was just kind of ready to go back home to
where my dad was. -Don't walk away from me!
-Get back here! -[Desiree] It was a scary moment.
I didn't understand why she was being that way.
I feel like Joy had another side to her that no one
knew about.
I think after that incident, she was in a mood.
I just... I stayed away.
It was just better for me to stay away
and be in my own little area.
I remember sitting in the front room, watching cartoons,
and I noticed there was guns in the couch and the chair.
That had never happened in the past.
This was something new.
I started seeing them being under the furniture,
on the stands, in the cushions everywhere,
in the kitchen.
Then it just started happening all throughout the house.
They were just laying out on the ground.
They were laying up against the wall.
It wasn't your typical hunting guns, like locked in a cabinet
or a safe or anything like that.
They were just -- there was handguns.
There was everything laying in there.
Like, especially in one of the bedrooms, they would keep
a lot of them in.
I kind of wondered why they were all there.
After seeing the house filled with guns,
there was more to the story -- I knew it wasn't right.
I didn't tell my mom about the guns all in the house,
because I think she would not let me go back.
She wanted to protect me.
I didn't know at the time that's what he was doing,
but years later, it kind of confirmed my suspicions
that him and Joy were
involved in drugs.
I think Joy's life was more dangerous
than what we all thought.
And then when they got together, his life started
turning more that way.
I didn't want to stay with her alone.
Just after all the arguments and the fights.
I was scared to be with her.
[Desiree] In the beginning, when my dad and Joy got together,
everything was good, but things quickly took a turn.
[as Desiree's uncle] What are you thinking?
[Desiree] And one day, my uncle was very serious
with the conversation with my dad.
You could tell it was a very serious conversation going on
between them. -She's a problem.
You don't know her.
[Desiree] I seen my uncle telling my dad
that he needed to stay away from Joy.
She wasn't a very good person,
that she was gonna bring him down.
I did feel better that someone else was realizing that there
was issues with their relationship.
I mean, I had been worried about him for a while now.
But I thought maybe that he would open his eyes up
and get away from her.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
[Desiree] I wish he'd have listened to anybody that had
told him about her and to stay away.
Now, looking back, I wish I had told him and not just been
trying to protect him because I wanted him to be happy.
I wish I had told him what I was feeling.
The reason I didn't say much to my dad
was because I was scared of her.
[Desiree] She's saying that my dad hit her.
I never saw my dad be physical towards her.
She couldn't give him examples.
It was like she was just trying to make them up.
She didn't know if they would see, anybody would see my dad
hit her, because it didn't happen.
She -- the way she was acting was describing her personality,
not his.
I never remember him yelling at her.
I always remember him trying to get her to stop.
And if she didn't, he would always try to leave.
I never seen him hurt anybody,
especially -- he wouldn't hurt her.
I mean, she raised her fist to me.
He still didn't touch her.
Makes me angry she's trying to paint him as a bad person,
because he wasn't -- she's describing herself.
Anybody that knew him knows that was not my dad.
Things were getting worse between them.
The fighting was...
getting out of control, just with her yelling at
him nonstop. -Well, what about me, huh?
-What about my needs? -Just calm down.
Don't tell me to calm down.
[Desiree] I realized that lifestyle was definitely
not normal for the way
the fights were going on, the controlling issues,
just everything in general
in their whole life was just not right.
You always have to be the hero!
[Desiree] He didn't want me to see them fighting.
He always tried to keep the peace.
He didn't want me to ever see that anything was wrong.
Not in front of her.
[Desiree] One of the first times I remember her being physical,
my dad was going to my grandma's house to help her,
and Joy did not like my dad going there to help her.
And she was mad and was attacking him.
You're not leaving this house!
[Desiree] She ripped his shirt off.
-[shouting] -No! Get off of me!
I think she was mad because she was controlling.
She wanted to make sure he was right there
beside her at all times.
You could tell he was stressed out.
He was upset.
You could see it on my dad's face that, you know,
he wasn't happy and that things were just different with him.
It made me feel sad.
I didn't like seeing him feeling down like that.
I just kept it all to myself, mostly, like all my emotions
about everything, I kept to myself,
because I didn't want no one knowing.
I wanted to make sure I could still go on the weekends
and see him, and I figured if I just didn't say nothing,
things would get better.
I just remember sitting in my grandma's living room,
and he was on the phone, and his shirt was actually
laying on the couch behind him, and she kept calling repeatedly.
-[as Donald] You need to stop. -[Desiree] And she didn't stop.
[Desiree] She just kept calling and calling and calling.
You could tell he was aggravated.
Stop calling.
[Desiree] She wouldn't stop.
He would just try to talk to her, try to get her to stop
yelling and screaming.
But I think that just made her worse.
[phone ringing]
And he finally just wouldn't answer the phone.
[phone ringing]
I think she was getting aggravated because it just kept
ringing and ringing,
and I think they finally just took it off the hook.
I never experienced anything like that.
I know my grandmother never experienced anything like that.
Just seeing how it affected his brothers, his mom,
friends -- she tore my family apart.
I've asked myself many times what my dad seen in her.
She was a bad influence in his life, because his life
completely changed when she came into the picture.
One night, I was at my dad and Joy's house.
It was late at night, there was
a knock on the door.
[knocking noises]
When I woke up, I woke up from the commotion downstairs.
I could hear something was going on.
-What the hell was that? -Oh, I have no idea.
[Desiree] And I just remember walking down the stairs, and I asked
what was going on.
They just told me to get back to bed.
There was nothing going on.
I knew something was wrong, I just didn't know what it was.
And I just went back up to my room and just stayed away.
That moment was very scary for me.
I was terrified.
And come to find out later, um,
when I asked questions about it,
they said someone had just knocked on the door
and that they had left when they got to the door.
It always makes me wonder, like, was someone at the door
that night to hurt him then?
And then the person at the door hears everybody up and realized
that it was a house full of people, or if he just got
scared and took off.
I always thought that maybe she was planning to kill my dad
that night.
She's saying in that video that everybody hated my dad.
She was completely lying.
It was the other way around, that everybody loved him,
and no one knew why he married her.
I mean, the stories you hear that, you know, he'd be out
playing pool, and he would buy rounds of drinks for everybody.
I don't think I ever met anybody
tried to argue with him besides her.
I think she said it because she was trying to make it look
like he was hated,
there was reason for someone to kill him.
She didn't want any blame on her.
It just shows you what type of person she was.
One day, I remember, they had a huge argument.
They were fighting, but I don't remember
what they were fighting about.
I just remember she was just screaming, and she just looked
so mad. -[laughing] Get back here.
What are you doing?
I felt like she was just filled with anger.
Don't you walk away from me!
[Desiree] We got in the vehicle, but the vehicle wouldn't start.
Get out of the car!
[Desiree] After my dad locked the doors,
she picked up a stick or some
kind of piece of wood and started hitting the vehicle
and trying to break the windows.
She was hitting the vehicle and just acting crazy.
...of the car!
I kept leaning over towards the driver's seat to get out.
Like, I was afraid she was going to break the window.
And my dad was grabbing ahold of me to pull me over toward
the driver's seat.
-[pounding noises] -[as Joy] Come on!
I thought she was going to get in the vehicle
and hurt me or him.
[as Joy] Get out of there!
[Desiree] In that moment, I just wanted her to stop screaming
and just hitting the vehicle.
Unlock the door!
[Desiree] I didn't know what she was going to do or what happened if
she did get in the vehicle. -[screams]
[Desiree] I remember her screaming and just hate
in her eyes, this black, dark look.
My dad was scared, and I could tell he was frustrated.
He wanted her just to stop.
She was just going around the vehicle,
hitting the vehicle -- when he got out...
Come on, Whitey!
...she was reaching across, -[grunts loudly]
trying to get the keys out.
Give me the keys. Give me the keys, Whitey!
[Desiree] I remember grabbing the keys, because I didn't
want her to have them, -Enough!
because I wanted to get away from her.
Get off me!
I was scared, terrified of her.
[Desiree] That was me talking to the investigators.
I would have been 11 years old.
It's hard, because I don't really remember
being invest -- or being questioned about it.
And it sounds like I was scared.
It shows you she's crazy.
She doesn't care for anybody else but herself.
That she would hurt a child or yell at a child who wasn't
doing anything -- she had some serious issues.
I should have a good memory of Christmas with him,
and I don't.
[phone ringing]
I just remember sitting in my grandma's living room
and her calling nonstop, just harassing him.
[phone ringing]
The threats were getting worse.
She threatened him all the time.
Hello?
She told me that she was going to have my dad killed.
[as Joy] Tell your father he's a dead man.
[Desiree] That moment was very scary for me.
I was terrified of her. I hung up on her.
No kid should have to listen to someone threatening to kill
their father on Christmas Eve.
I didn't think he thought his wife would have him killed,
that she was just threatening him because she was mad.
In January 1997, they were getting along well.
Everything seemed to be going better between them.
They were going to work on things.
She seemed to be acting better. He seemed to be happy.
Like, it was nice to actually
not have to listen to them fight.
They were looking to buy a house together,
closer to the bars.
Joy was the one showing me a lot of the house.
Like, she was showing me, like, look at this.
This is gonna be your room.
And they said they were going to buy the house.
And they seemed happy that day.
I was excited because, you know, they were getting
this house, it was closer to everybody.
Like, it was just down the road from everything.
And then that Sunday evening, we said, "Bye, I love you.
See you tomorrow at basketball practice."
He was just happy. He was happy.
He was laughing. Everything was just normal.
Looking back, I think she was being fake that day.
I think it was all an act.
Because I felt like she knew something was going to happen.
She was going to do something soon.
My dad kept saying, "Just always remember, if something ever
happens to me, how much I love you."
That's what he -- I remember him telling me that.
And I kept thinking, why is he saying this?
Like, why does he keep telling me this?
[Desiree] I have a family now. He should be here to see them.
I wish I had told my father
the feelings I had towards her.
I think maybe it would have opened up his eyes
a little bit more.
It's not fair, because she's taken everything away from me.
You don't want someone to come in your life and destroy it
like she destroyed mine.
[Desiree] So the next day, I went to school that morning.
And my grandma's house was right down the street
from where I went to school at.
I could see her house from the school.
I looked down to see if my dad was down at my grandma's,
because usually he goes and checks on her.
And I noticed his car wasn't there.
And a few minutes later,
the staff had came out to get me.
And my grandmother was there to pick me up.
And it looks like she's crying.
I'm so sorry.
I remember her telling me that he had been killed.
And I just remember screaming.
I asked if she was involved.
And I don't remember much after that.
That he had been killed at her bar.
And I wanted to know who did it.
Like I...
wanted to make sure they had the person that did it.
And they said they did.
It was Joy saying that my dad carried cash in his jacket
pockets and that the reason they carry that much cash in
their wallet is because they got people out of jail
for DUIs.
And I've never once heard that or heard my dad mention that.
I do not.
When they arrested Carl, he had my dad's wallet.
[officer] A billfold belonging to who we believe may be the victim in
this, a Donald Ray Hoop.
[Desiree] My dad was always known to carry
large sums of cash on him.
I always noticed, like, when he was getting ready in
the mornings, his wallet laying on the stand.
And he would always have large sums of cash in there.
They carried a large sum of cash on them because they both
were involved in drugs.
I didn't know at the time that's what he was doing,
but years later, it was obvious why he had so much cash on him.
When I was younger, I didn't think him carrying around that
amount of money was an issue.
When you do look back, that's not usually the case,
and it's usually not the normal thing to do.
I knew something wasn't right. I said there was more to it.
Is that Carl when he first did it?
I don't remember him hardly. It was so long ago.
Yeah, kind of looks like he's got a smirk on his face.
Makes it look like he didn't care,
like he was happy with what he'd done.
I never heard of Carl Lindsey before this happened.
Carl Lindsey is someone who took away someone who meant
everything to me -- he took away my dad.
He has turned my life upside down.
He is a person that took him away in such a horrible way.
Like, he didn't think twice about it.
The first time I saw her after that was at the visitation.
And I knew something wasn't right.
When I went to my dad's visitation,
she had a closed casket, no one was allowed to see him.
She was running around the funeral home,
chatting it up with everybody,
acting like she was the life of a party.
[distant laughter]
[Desiree] It's not normal, very unusual.
Why would you laugh and be carrying on
at your husband's funeral?
She didn't even stay by the casket.
She kept running around the whole funeral home.
And I was sitting there crying.
And I was like, why is she so happy?
Why is she laughing and carrying on?
Why is she not crying?
I didn't understand why someone would be acting that way.
They just lost their husband.
I was pretty sure then that she did something, because why
would you be laughing and acting like everything's
fine at your husband's funeral?
Joy was being extra nice. Like, it was weird.
Like, why was she being this nice to me?
I pretended to be nice to Joy, because I was afraid of her.
I was afraid she was gonna hurt me, too.
I think she thought if she showed interest in me,
it would make her look a lot better.
She would rather keep putting on a good act to make sure
I thought she was not guilty.
We had a basketball game.
She came to the basketball game.
She was very quiet, wasn't saying much.
After the game, she talked to me outside.
Hi. Can I speak to you for a sec?
[Desiree] I just didn't understand why she was there.
Yeah.
[Desiree] She didn't come before -- why now?
She acted very nervous when we were talking,
like something was bothering her.
She's like, "I would never hurt your dad."
You know I loved your father.
And she asked, she's like,
"Do you think I would hurt your dad?
[as Joy] I'm not capable of harming him.
[Desiree] She was just staring at me to see my reaction.
She was questioning me a lot.
I felt like she was trying to get
a lot of information out of me.
And it kind of worried me as to why she wanted
that information.
She wanted to make sure she made the point clear that
she would not do anything. -Right?
[Desiree] I felt like it was a tense moment.
She's very serious, wanted to make sure I understood.
I was just agreeing with her just so she would stop,
so she wouldn't suspect anything.
I don't think at the time she thought I was
thinking that.
I think she was willing to do whatever it took to make sure
everybody thought she was not involved.
OK. OK.
Good. Good.
[Desiree] She would rather keep putting on a good act
to make sure I thought she was not guilty.
I knew then that she had something to do with it.
When I found out she got arrested, it was a sense of
relief and hope that something would be done.
I needed to hear what Joy's part was in it, to know all
the details of what happened, much as possible, just so
I could have some sense of what happened that night.
That was my dad.
You know, he wasn't mean to her.
I mean, what reason did she have to hurt him?
She said she was joking.
I knew she wasn't joking.
She's struggling to be honest
about what really happened that night.
I think she wanted him dead for a while.
They were fighting, and her anger got the best of her.
She thought she could make it look like he was robbed because
he had a large amount of cash on him.
And there would be no suspicions that she was
planning on killing my dad.
Joy was setting both my father and Carl up.
She wanted to make sure Carl
had a reason to kill my father.
There was money in his wallet.
He could have the money and go on.
And she wouldn't be looked at as
like she had something to do with it.
The only thing that he was offered was what cash
was in my dad's wallet.
They said during the trial that Joy had kept repeatedly calling
Whitey's bar to get my dad to go to her bar to pick her up.
And they had been fighting.
And she wanted him to hurry up and get to her bar.
My dad pulled into her bar.
And then Carl was waiting on him in the parking lot.
Carl told me all the steps that had happened that night.
He shot him the first time.
Then my dad got out, and they had fought.
And then my dad had fallen to the ground.
After my dad had fallen, the gun had jammed.
He walked inside the bar,
inside the doorway, and she was there.
She got the gun and unjammed it.
And that's when Carl shot him the second time.
I remember being called and told he received
the death penalty.
And I was just relieved.
Carl said that he was on drugs and alcohol that night.
If he was in the right frame of mind, he wouldn't have done it.
Carl was a pawn in her game that she had, but it does not
give him an excuse to get off death row.
He did it.
He's the one that killed him.
She used Carl every way possible to get what
she wanted, and she thought she'd be free of it all.
Joy got 25 years to life with the chance of parole.
I didn't think it was fair.
I feel like she should spend the rest of her life in there.
I don't think she should ever have a chance at parole.
Joy's as much as to blame as Carl is.
I think Joy thought she would get away with it,
that they both would get away with it, with having Carl
rob him.
And she thought she would be done and there'd be no more
reason for anybody to look into it.
When I met with Joy, I asked her why she did it, and she said
that she didn't plan it, she didn't want him dead.
It got blown out of proportion.
Things got way out of hand, it's not what it seems.
And I wanted to hear her say I'm sorry for my part or take
some responsibility for it, and she never did.
I've never heard her say I'm sorry.
I don't think she ever will.
I think Joy wanted me to believe she was innocent,
like it was Carl's
plan to do it.
I'll never believe she's innocent.
I told Joy that I did not forgive her for what she did.
I didn't understand how she could take someone away
who did everything for everybody, including herself.
She destroyed my family.
She turned my life upside down.
When I walked out of the room, it was a weight off my shoulders
that she finally got to hear how I felt.
Joy and Carl has taken away everything from me.
Not just me and my family, he's missed every...
big event in my life, he's missed...
his brother's events, he's missed everything.
He's not even there just when you need someone to talk to
or get to see him.
I want to
keep his memory alive.
I want to make sure they know that he wasn't
this mean person to her, as she says he is,
that he was the most loving person anybody could imagine.
He would help anybody.
I feel like she should be in there for the rest of her life.
I don't think it would ever be justice as long as she has
a chance of being paroled,
because she's just as much as to blame as he is.
One day, she could be out, and I could see her out somewhere,
and that's a very scary thought to see her out somewhere.
She's someone who has made me look over my shoulder since
I was 10 years old, who took away my father,
and will never admit her wrongdoing.
That explains who she is. She's a very evil person.
♪♪
When we got there blood was everywhere.
She was screaming on the ground.
He's gone! [sobbing]
The act he committed on that day is nothing less than evil.
♪♪