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*MINDHUNTER*
Season 01 Episode 09
Title: "Episode #1.9"
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♪♪ Upbeat music playing...
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♪♪
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- It's like meeting a movie star.
- Could be as anti-climactic.
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- "Crime of the Century."
- Until Charles Whitman two weeks later.
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I remember staring at this wanted poster
of him, trying to figure out...
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if I saw him on the street,
would I know he was insane?
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- You clip all these?
- Everything I could get my hands on.
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Even went to my neighbors who subscribed
to newspapers outside of Milwaukee.
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Holden and his first criminal crush.
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I was home for the summer from college.
It really made an impact.
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Nancy didn't sleep for a week
when it hit the front page.
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She'd just started nursing school.
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It still makes the news.
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We should've let that suffice
as our interview.
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- Saved ourselves a trip out here.
- He lied all through it.
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Why? You don't think he'll lie to us?
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Wonder how Bob Greene got him to talk.
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Probably by kissing his ass.
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He called him a romantic figure.
He's as bad as you.
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You would really turn down the chance
to meet Richard Speck?
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He's almost up there with Manson.
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Well, maybe he'll give you an autograph.
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That would be inappropriate, right?
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Sign in.
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All right. Go ahead.
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Deputy Warden Armstrong.
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Holden Ford. This is Bill Tench.
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- The headshrink guys?
- Behavioral Science Unit.
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Thanks for accommodating us.
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You're the ones
who painted this place pink?
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The feds. You know, some psychology thing.
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The color pink
was supposed to keep the animals calm.
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How'd that work?
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I don't know.
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They ate it off the bars
before we could find out.
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- Is this the only way through?
- This is the way.
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We prefer to come in quietly, make it look
like a civil rights investigation.
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Look around,
how am I supposed to hide you?
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We didn't want him to be seen as a snitch,
suffer reprisals.
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As far as I'm concerned, he could suffer
the burning flames of hell for eternity.
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- Okay, but that's not what we agreed to.
- God, take it easy.
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We pulled him to toss his cell.
Do it twice a month.
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It'll look like business as usual.
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Armstrong.
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From his groupies.
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How does a man who slaughtered
eight women have groupies?
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Hundreds of them.
Keeps the whole prison stocked in smut.
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Stay behind me.
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You goddamn motherfucking shits!
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Get off of me! I'll fuck you up.
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I'll fuck you so hard, your asshole
will come out your motherfucking mouth!
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- Take it easy, Speck.
- Get your fucking mitts off of my shit!
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Son of a bitch!
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Fuck your mama's hairy fucking asshole,
you cock-sucking peckerwood!
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Shit-bag, motherfucking twat!
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I'm gonna shit in your goddamn
fucking poontang, you fuck-ass...
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Get off me, you cracker!
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I ain't talking to the motherfucking FBI!
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I wouldn't say that too loudly,
if I were you.
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Fuck you in your fucking mouth.
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We'd like to have a conversation, Richard.
Or what do you go by?
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I'm not talking to no faggot feds.
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Relax. We only want
background information.
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Stick your background up your fucking ass.
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You're here,
and we're gonna ask you a few questions.
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We can make it brief,
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or you can scream your head off
and take all day.
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You fucking turned my cell out.
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How'd you like it
if I looked up your fucking cracks?
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I wouldn't like it at all.
Going through your cell was not our idea.
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Please.
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Have a seat.
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We're conducting interviews
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with people who've been convicted
of violent crimes.
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We'll be asking about family history,
antecedent behavior, and thought patterns
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- surrounding the crimes...
- Fuck you, Hoover boys.
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Our goal is to publish a statistical
analysis which will not include your name.
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- You better know my name.
- I beg your pardon?
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"Beg your pardon." Fuck you.
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We know your name.
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Everybody knows your name.
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Who else you talking to?
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People who've been convicted of
similar violent crimes.
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- I'm not like them.
- No?
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Don't think
you've committed violent crimes?
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I didn't say that.
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How are you not like them?
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Them fuckers are crazy.
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Is that a bird?
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Where'd you get it?
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It had a broken wing.
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I fed it meatloaf through an eyedropper.
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Oh...
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Did you give it a name?
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They let you keep a pet here?
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As long as I suck their dicks.
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It won't surprise you, Richard,
that we want to talk about July 14, 1966.
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You'd been drinking since the morning,
is that correct?
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You'd gone a few times
to the Maritime Union
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to see about getting a job,
but nothing had panned out.
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Did this influence your state of mind?
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You drank at the Shipyard's Inn Tavern
until after 10:00 p.m.,
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when you walked over a mile
to 2319 100th Street.
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Did anything about the nurse's apartment
catch your eye?
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Was it your intention to commit robbery
when you went to the door?
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May I see your... tattoo?
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I read about it.
I collected these pieces on you.
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The tattoo is kind of legendary.
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I always wondered what it looked like.
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You're gonna have to roll up my sleeve.
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Okay.
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Well, come here, then, little boy.
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You want to pet my bird, too?
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Uh, no. Thanks.
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You went to the nurse's apartment,
knocked on the door,
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one of the young women answered it.
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You flashed a knife at her,
pushed your way inside,
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realized there were several women home.
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Was it still your intention to rob them
at this point?
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At what point did you decide to kill them?
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- I'm sorry.
- What?
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00:11:14,688 --> 00:11:16,319
I gotta ask.
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What gave you the right
to take eight ripe cunts out of the world?
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Some of them looked pretty good.
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You ever think you were depriving
the rest of us?
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Eight hot pieces of ass.
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You think that's fair?
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You're crazy.
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That's a fine line
that separates you from me.
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How the hell did you even fuck
eight women the same night?
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00:11:49,745 --> 00:11:51,043
What do you eat for breakfast, gunpowder?
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00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:52,941
- All right.
- I didn't fuck all of them.
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00:11:53,018 --> 00:11:55,567
That story got blowed
all out of proportion.
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- I only fucked one of them.
- The one on the couch?
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00:11:58,234 --> 00:11:59,689
- That's right.
- Why her?
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00:11:59,747 --> 00:12:02,007
- Could've fucked all of them.
- Why didn't you?
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00:12:02,069 --> 00:12:03,492
They kept coming.
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00:12:03,634 --> 00:12:04,744
One after the other.
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00:12:04,822 --> 00:12:06,538
What'd you do
when they came home?
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00:12:06,615 --> 00:12:10,022
I put one in the bedroom,
one in the closet.
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00:12:10,099 --> 00:12:11,440
You corralled them like ponies?
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00:12:11,517 --> 00:12:13,962
- That's right. Tied them up.
- Why'd you kill them?
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00:12:14,039 --> 00:12:16,154
Once I killed one,
I had to kill all of them.
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00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:17,768
Why'd you kill the first?
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00:12:17,826 --> 00:12:20,926
She was crying and all,
she was fucking loud.
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00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:24,578
You told Bob Greene she spit in your eye,
said she'd pick you out of a lineup.
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00:12:24,655 --> 00:12:26,975
That son of a bitch,
I should've never talked to him.
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00:12:27,052 --> 00:12:29,851
- Why not?
- He got the whole place all riled up.
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00:12:30,369 --> 00:12:33,065
- I just wanted to kick back.
- Do your heroin, drink your hootch?
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00:12:33,142 --> 00:12:35,067
- That's right.
- Where do you get that stuff?
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00:12:35,144 --> 00:12:36,817
Got my sources.
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- Made my own still.
- You made a still?
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00:12:39,815 --> 00:12:43,930
Hid it in a drawer in a guards' desk.
Right under their fucking nose.
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They couldn't figure out
what the stink was.
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00:12:46,071 --> 00:12:48,664
Was that true about the first girl?
She spit at you?
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00:12:48,741 --> 00:12:52,584
- Because they all sounded pretty timid.
- All right, she got after me.
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I told her to shut up.
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- Did she shut up?
- She did what I said.
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- Then why kill her?
- 'Cause I wanted to.
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How'd you do her?
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Choked her.
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Took forever.
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00:13:04,236 --> 00:13:06,098
Is that why you stabbed the others?
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00:13:06,175 --> 00:13:08,181
- It was faster?
- That's right.
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00:13:08,490 --> 00:13:12,020
Originally, you told them you weren't
gonna kill them, just rob them.
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00:13:12,097 --> 00:13:13,687
I guess I fucking lied.
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00:13:13,871 --> 00:13:16,191
- Maybe you got overwhelmed?
- No.
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I just decided to kill them.
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Except the one.
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She was a sneaky bitch.
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Hid under a bed.
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You know,
I never did have much use for math.
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And all them girls, I lost count.
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And there was blood fucking everywhere.
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Yep, they all looked dead to me.
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They'd done nothing,
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except maybe start crying
when they realized this was it.
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Ever wonder why you did it?
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00:13:46,048 --> 00:13:47,596
No.
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- Not even curious?
- I don't think about it at all
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until peckers like you show up.
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What about when you tried to off yourself?
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00:13:55,579 --> 00:13:57,065
Don't know what you're talking about.
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- In that motel.
- I didn't do that.
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00:14:00,083 --> 00:14:02,112
- Well, you slashed your wrists.
- Fuck no!
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00:14:02,189 --> 00:14:03,614
- That was a fight.
- What?
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00:14:03,691 --> 00:14:05,199
- How I got cut.
- Who'd you fight?
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00:14:05,276 --> 00:14:06,930
Some river coon trying to hustle.
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00:14:07,007 --> 00:14:10,058
- Just happened to be on both wrists?
- I killed that motherfucker.
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00:14:10,135 --> 00:14:11,747
- You killed him, too?
- Shit, yeah.
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00:14:11,824 --> 00:14:15,624
- I didn't see that in the paper.
- Because nobody gives a fuck about that.
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00:14:16,266 --> 00:14:18,585
You lost a lot of blood.
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00:14:18,685 --> 00:14:21,796
- Did it hurt?
- I didn't feel fucking nothing.
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00:14:22,356 --> 00:14:24,343
- Do you still feel nothing?
- That's right.
199
00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:27,510
- It feels good, feeling nothing.
- Sure.
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00:14:28,570 --> 00:14:31,431
Are you sure,
when you slashed your wrists,
201
00:14:31,615 --> 00:14:33,268
you didn't feel bad about those girls?
202
00:14:33,345 --> 00:14:34,937
I told you, I didn't do that.
203
00:14:35,014 --> 00:14:37,938
Maybe you weren't feeling bad
about the girls.
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00:14:38,121 --> 00:14:40,442
Maybe you were feeling sorry for yourself.
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00:14:40,519 --> 00:14:42,234
Fuck you, peckerhead!
206
00:14:43,630 --> 00:14:45,747
You know why those cunts died?
207
00:14:49,424 --> 00:14:51,785
Because it just wasn't
their fucking night.
208
00:14:55,556 --> 00:14:57,332
Well, that was fucked up.
209
00:14:59,685 --> 00:15:02,381
When he started talking about feeding it
through an eyedropper,
210
00:15:02,458 --> 00:15:04,506
I actually felt sorry for the guy.
211
00:15:07,276 --> 00:15:09,928
We really should videotape
these interviews.
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00:15:10,005 --> 00:15:12,597
Audio is never gonna do it justice.
213
00:15:14,199 --> 00:15:17,020
A video archive
of our most violent offenders.
214
00:15:17,097 --> 00:15:18,937
Imagine that for posterity.
215
00:15:21,331 --> 00:15:24,276
"It just wasn't their night."
216
00:15:32,092 --> 00:15:34,216
You might want to consider
losing the tape.
217
00:15:34,274 --> 00:15:35,310
What?
218
00:15:35,387 --> 00:15:38,417
Or saying it got mangled.
The recorder chewed it.
219
00:15:38,494 --> 00:15:40,375
Why would I do that?
220
00:15:41,101 --> 00:15:42,567
"Eight ripe cunts."
221
00:15:42,644 --> 00:15:45,257
- I was getting him talking.
- That excuse is wearing thin.
222
00:15:45,334 --> 00:15:47,739
Bill, don't get caught up in semantics.
223
00:15:47,816 --> 00:15:51,263
I don't like the language, and I know
at least one person who won't either.
224
00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:53,912
- Am I supposed to be cowed by Wendy?
- I'm just saying...
225
00:15:53,989 --> 00:15:55,976
You pushed back
when she reamed us about Brudos.
226
00:15:56,053 --> 00:15:58,727
Because we got something worthwhile
from him.
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00:15:58,804 --> 00:16:00,335
I can do this stuff.
228
00:16:00,412 --> 00:16:03,088
I can choke down the bile,
manufacture empathy,
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00:16:03,165 --> 00:16:04,992
when our subjects are
at least informative.
230
00:16:05,050 --> 00:16:07,812
- You couldn't choke it down with Brudos...
- Shut up, let me finish.
231
00:16:07,898 --> 00:16:10,679
But someone like Speck
isn't worth our time.
232
00:16:10,756 --> 00:16:13,994
The fact that his death sentence
was commuted is a national disgrace.
233
00:16:14,071 --> 00:16:15,976
We decided no one was
beneath our contempt.
234
00:16:16,053 --> 00:16:17,456
That snail didn't change your mind?
235
00:16:17,533 --> 00:16:19,666
- We can learn from snails.
- What did we learn?
236
00:16:19,743 --> 00:16:23,984
That some subjects have no idea what's
behind the horrific acts they commit.
237
00:16:24,061 --> 00:16:26,486
It was disgusting.
I don't want to be part of it.
238
00:16:26,563 --> 00:16:29,092
- When did you get thin-skinned?
- I'm trying to warn you,
239
00:16:29,169 --> 00:16:31,843
your attitude is gonna
bite you in the ass.
240
00:16:32,861 --> 00:16:37,789
There is no dishonor in losing at least
the first three minutes of that tape.
241
00:16:37,866 --> 00:16:40,938
Ladies and gentlemen,
we will be arriving at Dulles momentarily.
242
00:16:41,015 --> 00:16:43,211
Please make sure
your seat belts are fastened.
243
00:16:43,288 --> 00:16:46,608
Tray tables and seat backs should be
in their upright and locked position.
244
00:17:55,485 --> 00:17:57,220
You know, Gregg...
245
00:17:58,697 --> 00:18:02,559
there are some things in this interview
that were important to, uh...
246
00:18:03,285 --> 00:18:07,188
But maybe best
kept off the permanent record.
247
00:18:37,444 --> 00:18:39,072
He admits to raping only one of the women.
248
00:18:39,114 --> 00:18:41,349
- We already knew that.
- Why does he bring it up?
249
00:18:41,426 --> 00:18:42,726
He wasn't initially forthcoming.
250
00:18:42,803 --> 00:18:46,811
I believe I asked him how he managed
to have sex with all those nurses.
251
00:18:47,579 --> 00:18:49,816
Wait, you caught him off guard,
he told the truth?
252
00:18:49,893 --> 00:18:52,590
- I guess so.
- This rape was committed reflexively.
253
00:18:52,667 --> 00:18:55,552
The crime scene photos indicate
that she was facedown on the couch,
254
00:18:55,629 --> 00:18:57,365
so she was already depersonalized to him.
255
00:18:57,442 --> 00:19:00,450
It was probably just
a "what the fuck" fuck.
256
00:19:01,426 --> 00:19:05,687
So he goes to the boardinghouse drunk,
looking for someone to rob.
257
00:19:05,764 --> 00:19:08,460
And then he finds himself
in this situation with all these women.
258
00:19:08,537 --> 00:19:11,419
He corrals them
and then he rapes one of them.
259
00:19:12,229 --> 00:19:14,341
- To prove he can?
- Statement of sexual competence.
260
00:19:14,399 --> 00:19:16,156
Which he later exaggerates
in the interview,
261
00:19:16,233 --> 00:19:18,929
- claiming he could have raped them all.
- He was bragging.
262
00:19:19,006 --> 00:19:21,056
He turned his suicide attempt
into a bar fight.
263
00:19:21,133 --> 00:19:22,620
Yeah, projecting machismo.
264
00:19:22,697 --> 00:19:24,184
- "Born to Raise Hell."
- Yes.
265
00:19:24,261 --> 00:19:27,584
It would be interesting to know
how old he was when he got that tattoo.
266
00:19:27,661 --> 00:19:31,129
Because that was the conscious decision
for him to brand himself a badass.
267
00:19:31,206 --> 00:19:34,486
We didn't get much history.
The bird in the fan kind of ended things.
268
00:19:34,563 --> 00:19:36,468
That moment? Vintage Speck.
269
00:19:36,545 --> 00:19:39,637
You had just accused him of cowardice
by attempting suicide.
270
00:19:39,714 --> 00:19:41,647
And nobody born to raise hell
is a coward.
271
00:19:41,705 --> 00:19:43,468
The bird was just further demonstration.
272
00:19:43,526 --> 00:19:46,456
I like the part where he doesn't want
to be lumped in with other subjects
273
00:19:46,533 --> 00:19:49,751
- because they're crazy.
- Again, projection of self-image.
274
00:19:49,828 --> 00:19:52,358
Speck is powerful, superior, exceptional.
275
00:19:52,435 --> 00:19:55,423
But did we learn anything new?
Anything that wasn't in our files?
276
00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:57,592
He had no idea
what he was going to do.
277
00:19:57,669 --> 00:20:00,720
Every single act he committed was...
spontaneous.
278
00:20:00,797 --> 00:20:02,118
We knew that.
279
00:20:02,195 --> 00:20:03,286
Speck was so out of it,
280
00:20:03,363 --> 00:20:06,518
the woman who answered the door
was the only one he forgot to kill.
281
00:20:06,595 --> 00:20:10,019
Yeah, but to hear him say it,
that's extremely valuable.
282
00:20:10,287 --> 00:20:13,400
We need terminology to distinguish
a Kemper from a Speck.
283
00:20:13,477 --> 00:20:16,945
One drives around with ropes, knives,
plastic bags in his trunk
284
00:20:17,022 --> 00:20:20,762
and returns to a specific hunting ground
looking for specific prey,
285
00:20:20,839 --> 00:20:22,909
while the other just
happens upon his victims.
286
00:20:22,986 --> 00:20:24,411
Organized and disorganized?
287
00:20:24,488 --> 00:20:27,412
No. Those terms describe procedure.
I'm looking...
288
00:20:27,804 --> 00:20:29,958
For example,
Charles Whitman is similar to Speck.
289
00:20:30,035 --> 00:20:32,542
He killed 14 people in 90 minutes.
290
00:20:32,642 --> 00:20:35,666
- He's not a sequence killer, he's...
- Whitman was on a spree.
291
00:20:35,724 --> 00:20:37,276
His victims weren't selected.
292
00:20:37,334 --> 00:20:39,674
- Just wasn't their night.
- Bill?
293
00:20:40,442 --> 00:20:43,076
Spree is good for Speck or Whitman.
294
00:20:43,153 --> 00:20:45,849
But I think sequence killer is wrong
for someone like Kemper.
295
00:20:45,926 --> 00:20:48,226
- It feels too cadenced.
- Perhaps.
296
00:20:48,303 --> 00:20:52,418
It should feel like a long story.
Continually updated.
297
00:20:52,495 --> 00:20:53,773
A series of killings.
298
00:20:53,850 --> 00:20:55,734
- Serial?
- Serial murderer?
299
00:20:55,811 --> 00:20:57,191
Serial killer?
300
00:20:58,126 --> 00:21:00,778
That's better. Let's see if it sticks.
301
00:21:03,215 --> 00:21:05,056
- Six more years?
- At least.
302
00:21:05,133 --> 00:21:06,870
Another year to complete my Masters,
303
00:21:06,947 --> 00:21:09,519
a year of exams
to get a doctoral candidacy,
304
00:21:09,596 --> 00:21:13,940
and the dissertation takes two if you're
extremely motivated, usually four.
305
00:21:14,017 --> 00:21:17,172
- You drink out of these?
- Just the one that's drying.
306
00:21:17,249 --> 00:21:18,840
Store them upside down.
307
00:21:21,274 --> 00:21:24,721
- Anyway, I'll be 30 before I get my PhD.
- That's still impressive.
308
00:21:24,798 --> 00:21:28,037
Is that why I'm doing this?
Who am I trying to impress?
309
00:21:28,114 --> 00:21:30,060
- I thought you loved this stuff.
- "This stuff"?
310
00:21:30,137 --> 00:21:34,479
Yeah, the sociological constructs
that you're always espousing.
311
00:21:34,556 --> 00:21:37,755
- The Goffman and the Higel...
- Hegal.
312
00:21:37,832 --> 00:21:39,215
- Hegal.
- I knew it.
313
00:21:39,292 --> 00:21:41,426
In one ear, out the other,
little Debbie's stuff.
314
00:21:41,503 --> 00:21:43,428
I'm talking generally,
not trying to minimize...
315
00:21:43,505 --> 00:21:46,409
You perk up when I talk about something
that has to do with your work,
316
00:21:46,486 --> 00:21:49,851
- but the rest of the time...
- I don't think you can put this on me.
317
00:21:49,928 --> 00:21:52,582
You've made it clear
I'm not to get between you and your...
318
00:21:52,659 --> 00:21:54,772
"Stuff." Maybe that's all this is.
319
00:21:54,849 --> 00:21:57,879
Maybe that's why I'm wondering if I want
to spend the rest of my life...
320
00:21:57,956 --> 00:21:59,005
Just now doing the math?
321
00:21:59,082 --> 00:22:02,530
Not all of us land feet first
in our ideal vocation, Mr. Ford.
322
00:22:02,607 --> 00:22:05,303
- You think that's me?
- You've found this microscopic niche
323
00:22:05,380 --> 00:22:07,806
interviewing freaks,
and you couldn't be better...
324
00:22:17,622 --> 00:22:20,151
- Hello?
- Mr. Ford, I have a Mrs. Wade to see you.
325
00:22:20,228 --> 00:22:22,276
- Who?
- Uh, she says...
326
00:22:22,460 --> 00:22:24,278
What is this regarding, ma'am?
327
00:22:25,588 --> 00:22:28,514
- She's the wife of someone you had fired.
- Oh.
328
00:22:28,591 --> 00:22:31,031
She says to remind you
of someone named Roger.
329
00:22:31,089 --> 00:22:32,148
Okay.
330
00:22:32,262 --> 00:22:34,539
If you'd like, I can call somebody.
331
00:22:35,056 --> 00:22:36,707
Send her up.
332
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,921
What?
333
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:47,300
What is it?
334
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:03,862
Mr. Ford?
335
00:23:03,939 --> 00:23:05,403
Mrs. Wade.
336
00:23:05,587 --> 00:23:06,844
That's right.
337
00:23:06,921 --> 00:23:08,700
How did you find me?
338
00:23:08,777 --> 00:23:10,366
It took a while.
339
00:23:11,885 --> 00:23:14,829
You might not want to follow
a federal agent.
340
00:23:15,597 --> 00:23:17,498
There could be consequences.
341
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,375
You're just a kid.
342
00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:23,569
- What do you want?
- So young to be ruining people's lives.
343
00:23:23,646 --> 00:23:25,091
- Mrs. Wade.
- I'm sure you're aware
344
00:23:25,168 --> 00:23:27,925
that Roger was let go
by the school district.
345
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:30,743
I was not aware.
346
00:23:30,820 --> 00:23:33,973
Which means he can never again work
in Prince William County.
347
00:23:34,824 --> 00:23:37,291
We've been in our home for 23 years.
348
00:23:37,368 --> 00:23:41,522
We have a daughter who's still
in high school, so moving is impossible.
349
00:23:45,126 --> 00:23:48,990
He's been looking for work
all over Virginia, Maryland, Delaware,
350
00:23:49,067 --> 00:23:51,866
as a guidance counselor,
351
00:23:53,093 --> 00:23:54,660
a substitute teacher.
352
00:23:55,261 --> 00:23:59,605
But no one wants him near children.
And children are his life.
353
00:23:59,682 --> 00:24:01,649
I am very sorry to hear that,
354
00:24:01,726 --> 00:24:03,797
but I had nothing to do
with your husband...
355
00:24:03,874 --> 00:24:06,925
I understand you told the superintendent
he could be a pedophile.
356
00:24:07,002 --> 00:24:08,176
You've been misinformed.
357
00:24:08,253 --> 00:24:12,428
So... you're saying
that you didn't talk to anyone?
358
00:24:12,752 --> 00:24:16,330
- This was started by teachers.
- You mean Janet Ebner?
359
00:24:17,033 --> 00:24:20,335
Roger was going against the wishes
of faculty and parents.
360
00:24:20,412 --> 00:24:23,981
- He'd been given every opportunity to...
- He did nothing wrong!
361
00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:30,655
I don't know what to tell you.
362
00:24:31,881 --> 00:24:33,991
I almost don't know him anymore.
363
00:24:35,594 --> 00:24:38,246
I've never seen him so morose.
364
00:24:38,429 --> 00:24:40,834
He doesn't sleep.
I wake up in the middle of the night,
365
00:24:40,911 --> 00:24:44,377
he's in the living room,
staring at snow on the television.
366
00:24:45,311 --> 00:24:47,838
He's almost 50 years old.
367
00:24:48,064 --> 00:24:52,009
We have three children,
two of them are studying to be teachers.
368
00:24:52,485 --> 00:24:54,845
We were respected in the community.
369
00:24:58,366 --> 00:25:00,228
Suddenly, people who've known us
for years
370
00:25:00,305 --> 00:25:02,564
pretend they don't see him on the street.
371
00:25:02,641 --> 00:25:07,608
Someone spray-painted "kiddie fucker"
on our driveway.
372
00:25:09,961 --> 00:25:11,737
Would you like to come in?
373
00:25:14,507 --> 00:25:16,534
You're very young as well.
374
00:25:17,427 --> 00:25:20,413
Do you know what kind of person
you're married to?
375
00:25:20,513 --> 00:25:22,582
We're not married.
376
00:25:23,766 --> 00:25:25,459
Then there's still time.
377
00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:33,052
What did you do?
378
00:25:33,129 --> 00:25:34,468
Nothing.
379
00:26:44,430 --> 00:26:47,416
- What am I looking at?
- Came in from the Atlanta field office.
380
00:26:48,142 --> 00:26:51,545
Twelve-year-old girl raped and murdered
after she got off the school bus.
381
00:26:53,674 --> 00:26:54,697
Atlanta?
382
00:26:54,786 --> 00:26:57,544
Adairsville,
60 miles northwest of Atlanta.
383
00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:03,974
Contact the case lead,
see if he'll send us more info.
384
00:27:06,661 --> 00:27:10,483
Lisa Dawn Porter disappeared after being
dropped off at the driveway to her house.
385
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,299
Her body was found in a wooded area,
ten miles away.
386
00:27:13,376 --> 00:27:16,155
Cause of death was determined to be
blunt force trauma to the head,
387
00:27:16,232 --> 00:27:17,470
probably from this rock.
388
00:27:17,547 --> 00:27:19,826
Marks indicate manual strangulation
from behind.
389
00:27:19,903 --> 00:27:22,201
- She was a cheerleader?
- Majorette.
390
00:27:23,386 --> 00:27:25,373
They march with the school band,
twirl batons.
391
00:27:25,450 --> 00:27:28,499
What else do we know about her?
Habits? Personality?
392
00:27:28,683 --> 00:27:30,378
By all reports, she was a good girl.
393
00:27:30,455 --> 00:27:33,798
No drugs, no alcohol,
no boyfriends anyone knows of.
394
00:27:33,875 --> 00:27:37,201
Autopsy indicates that she was a virgin
before all this.
395
00:27:37,259 --> 00:27:40,054
- Low-risk victim, low-risk setting.
- Her clothes were disheveled,
396
00:27:40,131 --> 00:27:42,223
there was no debris on them,
no dirt, no leaves.
397
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:45,373
They think she was raped in a vehicle,
but killed in the woods.
398
00:27:45,450 --> 00:27:47,667
- Disheveled how?
- The buttons were misaligned.
399
00:27:47,744 --> 00:27:49,981
So she undressed,
probably when the unsub raped her,
400
00:27:50,058 --> 00:27:52,463
and then she got dressed again
in a hurry.
401
00:27:52,540 --> 00:27:54,902
He either allowed her to do it
or he encouraged it.
402
00:27:54,979 --> 00:27:56,317
Mm-hmm.
403
00:27:56,961 --> 00:27:58,469
He put the coat over her face?
404
00:27:58,546 --> 00:28:00,596
That's how she was found.
It was yellow.
405
00:28:00,673 --> 00:28:02,785
A young couple noticed it
walking through the woods.
406
00:28:02,862 --> 00:28:04,535
What do you think that means?
407
00:28:06,554 --> 00:28:11,625
If he places it over her head,
it's like he's covering up what he's done.
408
00:28:12,518 --> 00:28:13,796
- He's ashamed?
- Okay.
409
00:28:13,873 --> 00:28:15,882
That's consistent with her
getting dressed.
410
00:28:15,959 --> 00:28:17,133
He's concerned for her.
411
00:28:17,210 --> 00:28:19,592
In that way that child rapists
can be concerned.
412
00:28:19,984 --> 00:28:22,845
Let's say there's shame.
What does that tell us about him?
413
00:28:23,488 --> 00:28:26,432
- This might be his first murder?
- Good.
414
00:28:26,509 --> 00:28:28,517
- He's young?
- How young?
415
00:28:28,743 --> 00:28:31,522
Maybe another teenager?
Someone that knew her?
416
00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:36,150
Strangulation. Even 12-year-olds
rarely comply, takes real strength.
417
00:28:37,251 --> 00:28:39,238
- Mid to late 20s?
- That's where I'd put him.
418
00:28:39,315 --> 00:28:42,680
He intercepted her between the bus stop
and her home only a short distance away.
419
00:28:42,757 --> 00:28:45,203
It's possible he knew
when she was coming home from school.
420
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,163
The woods where she was found
is a known make-out spot for locals, so...
421
00:28:50,264 --> 00:28:52,500
- he's likely from the area.
- Good.
422
00:28:52,787 --> 00:28:54,653
- They knew each other?
- Can't assume that.
423
00:28:54,718 --> 00:28:56,351
He could have threatened her
at gun or knifepoint.
424
00:28:56,408 --> 00:28:58,006
- Absolutely.
- If he knew her schedule,
425
00:28:58,063 --> 00:29:01,365
then he probably planned the kidnapping,
which means he likely planned the rape.
426
00:29:01,588 --> 00:29:03,006
But did he plan the murder?
427
00:29:04,195 --> 00:29:06,222
What does the crime scene tell us?
428
00:29:07,865 --> 00:29:10,706
He left the body in full view
at the scene of the murder.
429
00:29:10,910 --> 00:29:13,481
- He left the murder weapon by the body.
- And the yellow jacket?
430
00:29:13,558 --> 00:29:15,940
- Um...
- It's the opposite of hiding her.
431
00:29:17,291 --> 00:29:20,444
All of this indicates
a disorganized, spontaneous act.
432
00:29:23,172 --> 00:29:25,201
He planned the rape,
he didn't plan the murder.
433
00:29:25,278 --> 00:29:27,535
- He might even feel bad about it.
- Nice.
434
00:29:28,302 --> 00:29:32,542
Thanks. So I should get back to them
and tell them what we're thinking.
435
00:29:32,619 --> 00:29:34,523
Are they expecting to hear back?
436
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,877
Yeah. This isn't just an exercise, is it?
437
00:29:47,405 --> 00:29:49,890
School bus dropped her off right there.
438
00:29:50,783 --> 00:29:54,251
Eighty yards to the driveway,
a hundred yards to the house?
439
00:29:54,328 --> 00:29:56,647
Did she even make it
to the driveway?
440
00:29:56,724 --> 00:29:58,732
Well, her mother was home.
441
00:29:58,958 --> 00:30:00,883
She didn't see anything, hear anything.
442
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,677
So he probably picked her up on the road.
443
00:30:02,754 --> 00:30:05,888
We think someone was waiting for her,
knew when the bus would drop her off.
444
00:30:05,965 --> 00:30:07,618
- Think she knew him?
- Unclear.
445
00:30:07,695 --> 00:30:09,704
You checked out family, friends?
446
00:30:09,781 --> 00:30:12,603
Looking into it. No red flags so far.
447
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,625
We're sure there's no boyfriend
in the picture?
448
00:30:14,702 --> 00:30:17,754
All her girlfriends say no,
even on the sly.
449
00:30:17,831 --> 00:30:19,151
Was she popular?
450
00:30:19,228 --> 00:30:21,862
Family said she was... gregarious.
451
00:30:21,939 --> 00:30:23,948
- Majorette?
- Mm-hmm. That's right.
452
00:30:24,025 --> 00:30:27,910
The outfit is flashy. Shows off her legs.
Might have been what caught his eye.
453
00:30:27,987 --> 00:30:29,265
Did she wear it to school?
454
00:30:29,342 --> 00:30:31,182
They found it in her backpack.
455
00:30:31,449 --> 00:30:33,684
A stranger who knew her schedule.
456
00:30:34,285 --> 00:30:36,228
He must have been watching her.
457
00:30:37,538 --> 00:30:40,774
- Who would have reason to be out here?
- This is farmland.
458
00:30:40,851 --> 00:30:42,359
Seasonal workers?
459
00:30:42,877 --> 00:30:44,427
Well, I can check.
460
00:30:44,504 --> 00:30:47,700
The area where she was found,
it was familiar to locals?
461
00:30:47,777 --> 00:30:50,036
It's known as a lovers' lane.
462
00:30:50,113 --> 00:30:52,017
- Lovers' lane?
- Jesus.
463
00:30:52,094 --> 00:30:56,332
- Could he have thought of it as a date?
- He truly was not thinking ahead.
464
00:30:56,724 --> 00:30:59,045
We don't believe the unsub
planned the murder.
465
00:30:59,122 --> 00:31:01,253
He certainly didn't try to cover it up.
466
00:31:01,330 --> 00:31:02,445
Like Gregg said,
467
00:31:02,522 --> 00:31:05,009
if he knows about a lovers' lane,
he could be from the area.
468
00:31:05,086 --> 00:31:07,301
And it might not be his first rape.
469
00:31:08,110 --> 00:31:12,058
See what records you've got on young men
in the Floyd and Bartow Counties.
470
00:31:12,135 --> 00:31:14,308
- Yep.
- How often does this get done?
471
00:31:14,826 --> 00:31:16,375
- Hm?
- The trees.
472
00:31:16,452 --> 00:31:18,439
They've been cleared
around the power lines.
473
00:31:21,499 --> 00:31:23,192
Oh...
474
00:31:23,292 --> 00:31:25,236
Well, this is rural Georgia.
475
00:31:26,337 --> 00:31:27,470
Not very often.
476
00:31:27,547 --> 00:31:29,657
Well, those limbs are freshly cut.
477
00:31:30,591 --> 00:31:33,160
You think a service crew
might have been out here?
478
00:31:35,304 --> 00:31:36,705
Thank you.
479
00:31:38,099 --> 00:31:40,441
I just got off a call with Floyd County.
480
00:31:40,518 --> 00:31:44,131
They say they recently questioned a guy
about the rape of a 13-year-old girl.
481
00:31:44,208 --> 00:31:46,050
He works for a tree-limbing service.
482
00:31:46,127 --> 00:31:49,218
- He spent a week on the Porter's street.
- Bingo.
483
00:31:49,295 --> 00:31:52,265
Name's Darrell Gene Devier,
24 years old.
484
00:31:52,342 --> 00:31:53,788
High school dropout.
485
00:31:53,865 --> 00:31:57,625
Was in the army, went AWOL,
discharged after seven months.
486
00:31:57,702 --> 00:31:59,772
- Couldn't handle the military.
- Disorganized.
487
00:31:59,849 --> 00:32:01,921
- Makes sense.
- Single? Married?
488
00:32:01,998 --> 00:32:04,861
Married and divorced twice.
Living with his first ex-wife.
489
00:32:04,938 --> 00:32:07,279
Sexually and socially competent,
if indecisive.
490
00:32:07,349 --> 00:32:08,614
Can't get over the young girls.
491
00:32:08,691 --> 00:32:11,117
Every afternoon,
he watches Lisa get off the bus.
492
00:32:11,194 --> 00:32:14,391
She's got a sunny disposition,
maybe she even talks to him.
493
00:32:14,468 --> 00:32:17,853
He sees her in her majorette outfit.
It makes her look a little older than 12,
494
00:32:17,930 --> 00:32:19,917
and he's able to justify
his attraction to her,
495
00:32:19,994 --> 00:32:22,753
maybe even fantasize
that she would enjoy having sex with him.
496
00:32:22,830 --> 00:32:24,881
But once he's assaulted her,
she is terrified,
497
00:32:24,958 --> 00:32:26,529
she's in pain, she's crying.
498
00:32:26,606 --> 00:32:28,050
Not fun. The fantasy's over.
499
00:32:28,127 --> 00:32:31,051
He realizes, to get away with it,
he has to kill her.
500
00:32:31,561 --> 00:32:34,855
Has her get dressed, he'll let her go.
When she turns around, he strangles her.
501
00:32:34,921 --> 00:32:36,726
It's harder than he thought,
he can't finish.
502
00:32:36,803 --> 00:32:38,559
So he picks up a rock.
503
00:32:38,745 --> 00:32:40,919
After, perhaps shocked
at what he's done or ashamed,
504
00:32:40,977 --> 00:32:42,339
he puts the coat over her head.
505
00:32:42,397 --> 00:32:44,297
We're getting a warrant
to search his car.
506
00:32:44,355 --> 00:32:47,194
- We'll bring him for a lie detector test.
- Not recommended.
507
00:32:47,271 --> 00:32:50,636
The outcome of the polygraph can depend
on the quality of the questions.
508
00:32:50,713 --> 00:32:52,700
We use it all the time.
It's standard procedure.
509
00:32:52,777 --> 00:32:55,703
If he's a sociopath, he doesn't register
emotions the way we do.
510
00:32:55,780 --> 00:32:59,728
Wait, you said he might be ashamed
for what he's done.
511
00:32:59,805 --> 00:33:02,960
- Now, how's that square with a sociopath?
- Murdering a little girl?
512
00:33:03,037 --> 00:33:05,129
He had the confidence
to take a human life.
513
00:33:05,206 --> 00:33:08,213
If he beats the polygraph,
he'll think he's Superman.
514
00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:12,762
Thanks for coming up.
515
00:33:12,839 --> 00:33:15,995
It's always a pleasure to see daylight.
What's the bad news?
516
00:33:16,053 --> 00:33:17,850
We have a branch
of the Department of Justice
517
00:33:17,927 --> 00:33:20,052
called the Office
of Professional Responsibility.
518
00:33:20,122 --> 00:33:21,125
That sounds very bad.
519
00:33:21,202 --> 00:33:23,356
They look into allegations
of official misconduct.
520
00:33:23,433 --> 00:33:26,442
Usually there's nothing to it,
but they can make your life difficult.
521
00:33:26,519 --> 00:33:29,737
They are considering investigating
the unit for a civil rights violation.
522
00:33:29,814 --> 00:33:31,278
Is this about Brudos?
523
00:33:32,254 --> 00:33:33,822
This is about Richard Speck.
524
00:33:34,465 --> 00:33:35,868
He was jumped by a couple inmates
525
00:33:35,945 --> 00:33:38,704
after the interview
conducted by Agents Tench and Ford.
526
00:33:38,781 --> 00:33:42,062
Claimed they made a public show
of his meeting with the FBI,
527
00:33:42,139 --> 00:33:43,209
didn't respect his safety.
528
00:33:43,286 --> 00:33:46,817
How the agents interact with the prison
administration is not my purview.
529
00:33:46,894 --> 00:33:49,632
Understood. That's not really the charge
I'm worried about.
530
00:33:49,709 --> 00:33:54,336
Speck also wants to cite Agent Ford
for "fucking with his head."
531
00:33:54,414 --> 00:33:55,451
Anything specific?
532
00:33:55,528 --> 00:33:58,015
No, but we have all suffered
Agent Ford's head fucking.
533
00:33:58,092 --> 00:34:01,308
- Indeed.
- So it has an ominous ring of truth.
534
00:34:01,659 --> 00:34:04,418
What is the format
for evaluating these subjects?
535
00:34:04,495 --> 00:34:08,401
A short script and a questionnaire,
but the agents don't always adhere to it.
536
00:34:08,478 --> 00:34:10,025
Why did you mention Brudos?
537
00:34:10,626 --> 00:34:12,905
During his interview,
Brudos was obfuscating,
538
00:34:12,982 --> 00:34:19,600
so the agents brought in a woman's shoe
to elicit a response.
539
00:34:19,677 --> 00:34:21,163
Was that part of the script?
540
00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:24,166
If I were being polite,
I'd call it bad improvisation.
541
00:34:24,243 --> 00:34:28,233
I'm asking all of this because
no one's crying for Richard Speck.
542
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:31,132
He can file a complaint
and they are required to look into it.
543
00:34:31,209 --> 00:34:35,074
But these internal affairs types
justify their existence by finding dirt,
544
00:34:35,151 --> 00:34:37,242
and I want to make sure
there's nothing here.
545
00:34:37,319 --> 00:34:38,848
- Nothing that I can think of.
- Good.
546
00:34:38,925 --> 00:34:42,351
Tell the boys that the OPR would like
to see them at their earliest convenience.
547
00:34:42,428 --> 00:34:45,479
They should take all their materials,
everything Speck-related.
548
00:34:45,556 --> 00:34:48,441
You know, I don't want to be their boss.
549
00:34:48,518 --> 00:34:51,567
I'll be the boss. You be the messenger.
550
00:34:52,501 --> 00:34:53,902
All right.
551
00:35:00,134 --> 00:35:03,205
Fucking Richard Speck filed a complaint?
That piece of shit.
552
00:35:03,282 --> 00:35:04,770
We violated his rights.
553
00:35:04,847 --> 00:35:07,272
Those morons at Joliet
didn't do a thing I asked.
554
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:10,421
Okay, so tell the OPR that.
It sounds like it is just a formality.
555
00:35:10,498 --> 00:35:11,610
It's a pain in the ass.
556
00:35:11,687 --> 00:35:14,633
It shows they're interested.
Take everything that you've got on Speck.
557
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:18,427
- Like what?
- Like the file, the tape, transcript.
558
00:35:20,905 --> 00:35:22,556
You're coming with us.
559
00:35:31,415 --> 00:35:33,150
Hey. Hey.
560
00:35:33,876 --> 00:35:35,611
The transcript is fine.
561
00:36:31,308 --> 00:36:32,918
Please state your names.
562
00:36:33,102 --> 00:36:34,713
Special Agent William Tench.
563
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:36,779
Special Agent Holden Ford.
564
00:36:36,856 --> 00:36:38,840
Special Agent Gregg Smith.
565
00:36:39,358 --> 00:36:42,970
In what capacity do you serve
the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
566
00:36:43,070 --> 00:36:44,555
For the record.
567
00:36:44,780 --> 00:36:46,663
We're in the Behavioral Science Unit.
568
00:36:46,740 --> 00:36:48,477
How would you summarize what you do?
569
00:36:48,554 --> 00:36:51,284
- Research.
- Could you be more specific?
570
00:36:51,393 --> 00:36:52,773
We're engaged in a study
571
00:36:52,850 --> 00:36:55,151
funded by the Law Enforcement
Assistance Administration
572
00:36:55,228 --> 00:36:57,007
and the National Institute of Justice
573
00:36:57,084 --> 00:36:59,155
to interview criminals
convicted of violent crimes,
574
00:36:59,232 --> 00:37:00,489
classify their behavior,
575
00:37:00,566 --> 00:37:03,701
and create a profiling manual
for domestic law enforcement.
576
00:37:03,778 --> 00:37:05,116
Hm.
577
00:37:05,217 --> 00:37:07,893
You're here because we have complaints
filed against the Bureau
578
00:37:07,970 --> 00:37:10,541
by the Illinois Department of Corrections
on behalf of an inmate
579
00:37:10,618 --> 00:37:13,502
who claims you knowingly
put him in danger with your visitation.
580
00:37:13,579 --> 00:37:15,296
- Richard Speck.
- That's right.
581
00:37:15,373 --> 00:37:19,220
If I may, we made arrangements
that we felt would guarantee his safety.
582
00:37:19,278 --> 00:37:20,280
When we arrived,
583
00:37:20,357 --> 00:37:23,345
the deputy warden took it upon himself
to ignore all of them.
584
00:37:23,422 --> 00:37:26,473
- Were these verbal arrangements, written?
- Written.
585
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:28,890
I have their faxed agreement to our terms.
586
00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:33,103
Agent Ford, you're directly named
in the complaint.
587
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:38,173
The inmate said you, quote,
"fucked with his head," unquote.
588
00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:41,760
I'm sure the nature of my questioning
brought back uncomfortable memories.
589
00:37:41,837 --> 00:37:44,948
- You asked him about...
- The night he killed eight women.
590
00:37:45,025 --> 00:37:47,641
His sexual performance. Stuff like that.
591
00:37:47,718 --> 00:37:50,748
- Are these questions prepared in advance?
- We work from this.
592
00:37:50,825 --> 00:37:52,581
But every subject is different.
593
00:37:52,806 --> 00:37:55,149
We usually have to improvise.
594
00:37:55,226 --> 00:37:58,277
With Speck, I applied
a slightly aggressive interview style,
595
00:37:58,354 --> 00:37:59,715
tried to speak his language.
596
00:37:59,792 --> 00:38:00,988
Speak his language?
597
00:38:01,065 --> 00:38:02,322
Get into his rhythm.
598
00:38:02,399 --> 00:38:04,762
I'm assuming you have a record
of the interview.
599
00:38:04,839 --> 00:38:06,386
We have a transcript.
600
00:38:07,821 --> 00:38:09,514
Gregg?
601
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:18,241
- Where did this come from?
- Tape of the interview.
602
00:38:18,311 --> 00:38:19,858
Tape? You have the tape?
603
00:38:20,709 --> 00:38:25,072
We reuse our tapes.
I'm afraid that we erased that interview.
604
00:38:27,633 --> 00:38:29,576
You erased the interview?
605
00:38:29,802 --> 00:38:31,244
Yes.
606
00:38:32,596 --> 00:38:35,624
We recommend you do not do that
in the future.
607
00:38:36,016 --> 00:38:37,399
No, sir.
608
00:38:37,476 --> 00:38:41,590
I'm assuming your funding would cover
the purchase and archiving of audio tapes.
609
00:38:41,667 --> 00:38:43,005
Yes, sir.
610
00:38:43,983 --> 00:38:46,968
Are there other materials
you have to share with us?
611
00:38:47,111 --> 00:38:50,430
These are the pre-
and post-interview notes on the inmate.
612
00:38:50,531 --> 00:38:51,747
Should be everything.
613
00:38:51,824 --> 00:38:54,666
Gentlemen, we'll review these
and keep you updated on our findings.
614
00:38:54,743 --> 00:38:56,605
What we expect from you
during this process,
615
00:38:56,682 --> 00:38:59,106
more than anything, is candor.
616
00:39:06,380 --> 00:39:08,659
Richard Speck, what a shit stain, huh?
617
00:39:11,468 --> 00:39:12,643
Read to the end.
618
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:14,665
We should have kept the tape
just for that.
619
00:39:16,369 --> 00:39:18,377
- Fascinating.
- Thanks, guys.
620
00:39:22,646 --> 00:39:24,675
I'm soaking.
I sweat right through my shirt.
621
00:39:24,752 --> 00:39:27,199
- I noticed.
- I'm not good at this.
622
00:39:27,276 --> 00:39:29,344
It's over, you did fine.
623
00:39:30,529 --> 00:39:33,434
What should we do with the tape?
Destroy it?
624
00:39:33,511 --> 00:39:35,624
Probably. Where is it?
625
00:39:35,701 --> 00:39:38,126
- In my desk.
- Just give it to me.
626
00:39:38,203 --> 00:39:40,065
This whole thing makes me nervous.
627
00:39:40,142 --> 00:39:41,525
You said that, Gregg.
628
00:39:41,602 --> 00:39:45,444
It's a prison interview, not Watergate.
629
00:39:51,258 --> 00:39:54,286
- What's going on?
- Maybe you can tell us that.
630
00:39:57,556 --> 00:40:00,667
Holden, would you care to do the honors?
631
00:40:01,834 --> 00:40:04,631
What did you tell
the Office of Professional Responsibility?
632
00:40:04,708 --> 00:40:07,174
Nothing. There was nothing there.
633
00:40:07,483 --> 00:40:09,511
We gave them a transcript, that's all.
634
00:40:09,588 --> 00:40:11,344
So you're in on this, too?
635
00:40:11,987 --> 00:40:13,640
Well, Agent Ford approached me...
636
00:40:13,717 --> 00:40:15,642
Do not say, "Holden made me do it."
637
00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:16,722
Sorry, I apologize.
638
00:40:16,784 --> 00:40:18,854
I don't even know where to begin. Wendy?
639
00:40:18,931 --> 00:40:20,711
"Eight ripe cunts"?
640
00:40:20,788 --> 00:40:23,317
- Sure, let's start there.
- Jesus, not this again.
641
00:40:23,394 --> 00:40:25,442
Did you have Gregg redact it?
642
00:40:26,024 --> 00:40:28,906
- So you must have known it was sensitive.
- Sensitive for some people.
643
00:40:28,983 --> 00:40:30,908
- Meaning me.
- I don't like it either.
644
00:40:30,985 --> 00:40:34,578
We can't like everything we do.
We're talking to serial killers.
645
00:40:34,655 --> 00:40:36,977
- "Serial killers"?
- New terminology.
646
00:40:37,054 --> 00:40:39,500
So you're gonna say
and do whatever you want.
647
00:40:39,577 --> 00:40:43,317
Never mind that we are answerable
to the LEAA and the NIJ.
648
00:40:43,394 --> 00:40:46,903
This study is funded with Congressional
dollars, taxpayer money,
649
00:40:46,980 --> 00:40:48,822
which means your interviews
are public record.
650
00:40:48,899 --> 00:40:50,240
I would've left it as is.
651
00:40:50,297 --> 00:40:52,324
I really don't have a problem
with this being public.
652
00:40:52,381 --> 00:40:55,474
All of us have to go along
with what you consider to be appropriate?
653
00:40:55,551 --> 00:40:57,428
We've never discussed what's appropriate.
654
00:40:57,486 --> 00:40:59,499
- Of course we have.
- We haven't made decisions.
655
00:40:59,557 --> 00:41:01,897
There's no procedural rule book
for how to talk to these people.
656
00:41:01,954 --> 00:41:03,669
We spent a month drawing up
that questionnaire.
657
00:41:03,726 --> 00:41:05,714
It is a framework for substantive input.
658
00:41:05,791 --> 00:41:08,014
- It doesn't always work.
- You haven't let it work.
659
00:41:08,071 --> 00:41:10,739
You're so impatient, you weren't in there
three minutes with Speck
660
00:41:10,772 --> 00:41:12,566
before you got him going
with the cunt speak.
661
00:41:12,631 --> 00:41:15,091
That's when he admitted
to raping only one of the women.
662
00:41:15,154 --> 00:41:17,996
You want truffles,
you gotta get in the dirt with the pigs.
663
00:41:18,073 --> 00:41:19,331
No, we don't.
664
00:41:19,408 --> 00:41:21,122
We are the FBI.
665
00:41:21,807 --> 00:41:23,416
Look at that board.
666
00:41:24,852 --> 00:41:26,503
Look at our work.
667
00:41:26,765 --> 00:41:29,174
Because of that, Bill and I
were able to identify a murderer
668
00:41:29,251 --> 00:41:30,572
last week in Georgia.
669
00:41:30,649 --> 00:41:33,116
This is no longer a theoretical exercise.
670
00:41:33,193 --> 00:41:35,389
That board is mostly the result
of background research,
671
00:41:35,466 --> 00:41:37,579
not priceless gems
you seem to think you're mining.
672
00:41:37,656 --> 00:41:38,934
It all goes together.
673
00:41:39,011 --> 00:41:41,458
Everything we do
informs the bigger picture.
674
00:41:41,535 --> 00:41:44,940
Right, and if our tactics blow back on us,
then the whole thing could be jeopardized.
675
00:41:45,017 --> 00:41:47,776
We have at least 40 convicts to interview,
the data will aggregate...
676
00:41:47,853 --> 00:41:49,862
There is no need to wait that long.
677
00:41:49,939 --> 00:41:51,611
What happened in that meeting?
678
00:41:53,338 --> 00:41:56,056
I lied. I outright lied to the OPR.
679
00:41:56,133 --> 00:41:57,349
What did you say?
680
00:41:57,426 --> 00:41:59,267
That I erased the Speck tape.
681
00:41:59,344 --> 00:42:02,163
- You gave them the redacted transcript?
- Yes.
682
00:42:03,182 --> 00:42:07,025
- They don't know about the "ripe cunts."
- They don't care.
683
00:42:07,102 --> 00:42:09,462
So we're all in on a little cover-up here.
684
00:42:09,646 --> 00:42:11,216
I can't be part of a cover-up.
685
00:42:11,293 --> 00:42:14,593
- You told them there was no tape.
- Well, I was, um...
686
00:42:14,943 --> 00:42:16,576
I don't do deceit very well.
687
00:42:16,653 --> 00:42:20,122
There is no way they will know
about the tape unless we tell them.
688
00:42:20,199 --> 00:42:22,186
- We just don't say a thing.
- I disagree.
689
00:42:22,263 --> 00:42:24,396
We turn the tape over
and be completely transparent.
690
00:42:24,473 --> 00:42:26,773
If we're caught in a lie,
it'll be very bad.
691
00:42:26,850 --> 00:42:29,399
- I'm okay with it.
- I started this thing.
692
00:42:32,085 --> 00:42:34,386
It is not too late to go back to the OPR.
693
00:42:34,463 --> 00:42:35,949
- And tell them what?
- The truth.
694
00:42:36,026 --> 00:42:38,056
Easy for you to say, Wendy,
you're a consultant.
695
00:42:38,133 --> 00:42:40,245
If they open an investigation,
which they will...
696
00:42:40,322 --> 00:42:41,828
Leave it.
697
00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:44,873
Burn the fucking tape.
698
00:42:45,474 --> 00:42:48,460
They don't give a shit about Speck.
Nobody does.
699
00:42:49,228 --> 00:42:50,962
This can die right here.
700
00:43:00,322 --> 00:43:02,289
We are not going to turn in the tape.
701
00:43:02,366 --> 00:43:06,061
We're not going to speak about this
anymore. We will protect the unit.
702
00:43:06,453 --> 00:43:08,480
But something is wrong here.
703
00:43:09,831 --> 00:43:13,237
In my entire professional life,
I've never been put in a position
704
00:43:13,314 --> 00:43:17,155
of having to withhold information
from the Bureau, and I resent it.
705
00:43:18,674 --> 00:43:22,579
Moving forward, establish clear guidelines
for the behavior in these interviews,
706
00:43:22,656 --> 00:43:24,371
and you will adhere to them.
707
00:43:24,888 --> 00:43:27,543
I never want to listen to a tape
where I can't tell the difference
708
00:43:27,620 --> 00:43:30,961
between my agent
and some incarcerated lowlife.
709
00:44:10,058 --> 00:44:13,920
♪♪ The Alan Parsons Project's
"I Wouldn't Want to Be Like You" playing...
710
00:44:13,977 --> 00:44:17,565
♪♪
711
00:44:17,622 --> 00:44:20,800
♪♪
712
00:44:56,730 --> 00:45:00,008
♪ If I had a mind to ♪
713
00:45:01,234 --> 00:45:04,763
♪ I wouldn't want to think like you ♪
714
00:45:06,031 --> 00:45:09,684
♪ And if I had time to ♪
715
00:45:11,078 --> 00:45:13,523
♪ I wouldn't want to talk to you ♪
716
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,174
♪ Oh, I don't care ♪
717
00:45:18,251 --> 00:45:20,403
♪ What you do ♪
718
00:45:20,504 --> 00:45:24,032
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you
Yeah ♪
719
00:45:25,217 --> 00:45:28,036
♪ If I was high-class ♪
720
00:45:29,721 --> 00:45:32,624
♪ I wouldn't need a buck to pass ♪
721
00:45:34,768 --> 00:45:37,879
♪ And if I was a fall guy ♪
722
00:45:39,272 --> 00:45:42,884
♪ I wouldn't need no alibi ♪
723
00:45:44,444 --> 00:45:48,973
♪ I don't care what you do ♪
724
00:45:49,074 --> 00:45:54,771
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you
Oh, oh, oh ♪
725
00:46:22,232 --> 00:46:25,593
♪ Back on the bottom line ♪
726
00:46:26,111 --> 00:46:30,682
♪ Diggin' for a lousy dime, yeah ♪
727
00:46:31,783 --> 00:46:35,478
♪ If I hit a mother lode ♪
728
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:38,984
♪ I'd cover anything that showed ♪
729
00:46:39,061 --> 00:46:45,970
♪ Oh, oh, I don't care what you do ♪
730
00:46:46,047 --> 00:46:50,160
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you, yeah ♪
731
00:46:50,969 --> 00:46:53,913
♪ If I was high-class ♪
732
00:46:55,390 --> 00:46:58,418
♪ I wouldn't need a buck to pass ♪
733
00:47:00,270 --> 00:47:03,381
♪ And if I was a fall guy ♪
734
00:47:04,775 --> 00:47:08,428
♪ I wouldn't need no alibi ♪
735
00:47:09,905 --> 00:47:14,457
♪ I don't care what you do ♪
736
00:47:14,534 --> 00:47:16,144
♪ I wouldn't want to ♪
737
00:47:16,953 --> 00:47:21,316
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you
Ooh, ooh ♪
738
00:47:21,416 --> 00:47:25,320
♪ I wouldn't want to be like you ♪
739
00:47:26,296 --> 00:47:27,697
♪ Yeah ♪
740
00:47:28,507 --> 00:47:30,158
♪ Ooh ♪
741
00:47:30,926 --> 00:47:32,327
♪ Yeah ♪
742
00:47:33,053 --> 00:47:34,954
♪ Ooh ♪
743
00:47:35,931 --> 00:47:37,332
♪ Yeah ♪
744
00:47:37,933 --> 00:47:39,834
♪ Ooh ♪
745
00:47:40,602 --> 00:47:42,212
♪ Yeah ♪
746
00:47:42,581 --> 00:47:44,581
♪ Ooh ♪
9999
00:00:0,500 --> 00:00:2,00
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