1 00:00:13,435 --> 00:00:15,020 [BAG RUSTLING] 2 00:00:23,070 --> 00:00:28,492 [BREATHING HEAVILY] 3 00:00:33,121 --> 00:00:35,791 [THEME MUSIC PLAYING] 4 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,600 [MAN LAUGHING] 5 00:02:19,853 --> 00:02:23,065 [MAN] I saw that kid Spinks bust his ass the last time in Vegas. 6 00:02:23,148 --> 00:02:26,818 [CHUCKLES] Oh, he got way too confident, boy. 7 00:02:26,902 --> 00:02:28,654 [LAUGHS] 8 00:02:28,737 --> 00:02:31,782 You should've seen that face when he left the ring. 9 00:02:31,865 --> 00:02:35,535 [LAUGHS] 10 00:02:35,619 --> 00:02:39,247 The Norton fight, too. Ali didn't have a prayer. 11 00:02:39,331 --> 00:02:41,249 - [GUARD] Norton's tough. - [MAN] Huh! 12 00:02:41,333 --> 00:02:43,413 Kept getting backed up into the corner. 13 00:02:43,438 --> 00:02:45,861 His gloves up all around his ears. 14 00:02:46,546 --> 00:02:49,174 Norton broke Ali's jaw. 15 00:02:49,257 --> 00:02:51,343 - [GUARD] I remember that. - [MAN LAUGHS] 16 00:02:53,261 --> 00:02:56,515 Saw this interview with Ali's trainer. 17 00:02:57,140 --> 00:03:00,519 He said he didn't know what was wrong. 18 00:03:01,103 --> 00:03:04,356 The mouthpiece just kept coming out bloody. 19 00:03:04,439 --> 00:03:06,191 [LAUGHS] 20 00:03:06,775 --> 00:03:09,277 Oh! Norton got a lot of shots in, 21 00:03:10,404 --> 00:03:13,115 but still, that was something. 22 00:03:15,075 --> 00:03:20,831 It is not an easy thing to break a human being's jaw. 23 00:03:22,082 --> 00:03:23,542 Let me assure you... 24 00:03:25,127 --> 00:03:28,130 that takes practice. 25 00:03:28,213 --> 00:03:30,841 [CHUCKLES] 26 00:03:32,926 --> 00:03:35,846 Hey, welcome to Oregon. 27 00:03:37,347 --> 00:03:38,432 Thanks. 28 00:03:40,517 --> 00:03:42,686 I'm Holden Ford, this is Bill Tench. 29 00:03:42,769 --> 00:03:44,169 We're with the Federal Bureau of... 30 00:03:44,193 --> 00:03:45,653 Can I get something to drink? 31 00:03:46,732 --> 00:03:47,816 Sure. Coffee? 32 00:03:47,899 --> 00:03:50,736 Coffee's okay, I guess. 33 00:03:51,278 --> 00:03:53,572 - Could we get him a coffee, please? - Actually... 34 00:03:54,406 --> 00:03:59,077 what I'd really love is some cigarettes and a pizza. 35 00:03:59,661 --> 00:04:02,164 - Afraid we can't help you with that. - Really? 36 00:04:02,247 --> 00:04:03,707 [LAUGHS] You're the FBI. 37 00:04:03,790 --> 00:04:05,625 We can get you anything in the commissary. 38 00:04:05,709 --> 00:04:07,753 Well, fuck you for wasting my time. 39 00:04:09,337 --> 00:04:10,922 - What? - [MAN LAUGHS] 40 00:04:11,006 --> 00:04:13,216 Just messing with you guys. 41 00:04:16,845 --> 00:04:18,221 Do you mind if we record? 42 00:04:19,055 --> 00:04:21,475 I don't know. Tony, do we mind? 43 00:04:21,558 --> 00:04:24,144 - You got the paperwork? - This was pre-approved. 44 00:04:24,227 --> 00:04:28,064 - Hey, I didn't approve anything. - You don't have to do this, Jerry. 45 00:04:29,775 --> 00:04:31,109 Okay. 46 00:04:31,193 --> 00:04:35,280 I'll do it, as long as I know I don't have to. 47 00:04:36,323 --> 00:04:38,033 [LAUGHS] 48 00:04:38,116 --> 00:04:40,660 - We'll take it from here. - Yeah, Tony, I'm good. 49 00:04:46,082 --> 00:04:47,459 [HOLDEN CLEARS THROAT] 50 00:04:51,087 --> 00:04:52,422 Mr. Brudos... 51 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:55,532 we are conducting interviews with people 52 00:04:55,557 --> 00:04:57,368 who've been convicted of violent crimes. 53 00:04:57,427 --> 00:04:59,455 What you discuss with us cannot be used 54 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:00,996 against you in your applications... 55 00:05:01,056 --> 00:05:02,516 [BRUDOS] That's your recorder? 56 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,519 Electronics these days keep getting smaller. 57 00:05:05,602 --> 00:05:07,020 Where's the mic? 58 00:05:07,896 --> 00:05:10,106 See that little shiny part on the top? 59 00:05:10,816 --> 00:05:12,275 No shit. 60 00:05:12,359 --> 00:05:15,737 You should see the cameras coming out, fit in your pocket. 61 00:05:19,282 --> 00:05:20,283 What you discuss with us 62 00:05:20,367 --> 00:05:23,328 cannot be used against you in your applications for parole. 63 00:05:23,829 --> 00:05:26,206 We will be asking you about your family history, 64 00:05:26,289 --> 00:05:27,791 antecedent behavior, 65 00:05:27,874 --> 00:05:30,836 and thought patterns surrounding the crimes you've been convicted of. 66 00:05:30,919 --> 00:05:33,755 Our goal is to eventually publish a statistical analysis 67 00:05:33,838 --> 00:05:35,757 which will not include your name. 68 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:40,136 [BRUDOS PRETENDS TO SNORE] 69 00:05:41,221 --> 00:05:43,598 Thought this was gonna break the monotony. 70 00:05:43,682 --> 00:05:45,850 We can go straight to the questions, if you prefer. 71 00:05:45,934 --> 00:05:47,102 Please. 72 00:05:47,686 --> 00:05:48,687 Okay. 73 00:05:49,771 --> 00:05:51,690 Let's discuss the pre-crime phase. 74 00:05:51,773 --> 00:05:53,936 Specifically, the day before you killed 75 00:05:53,963 --> 00:05:55,844 your first victim, Laura Sullivan. 76 00:05:56,361 --> 00:05:58,113 I didn't kill Laura Sullivan. 77 00:05:59,155 --> 00:06:00,490 You didn't kill... 78 00:06:00,574 --> 00:06:04,119 They never found her body. I was never convicted of that murder. 79 00:06:04,202 --> 00:06:05,954 - [HOLDEN] But you confessed to it. - Nope. 80 00:06:06,955 --> 00:06:10,417 On... June 27, 1969, 81 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:12,060 you confessed to murdering 82 00:06:12,106 --> 00:06:14,403 Laura Sullivan, Jane Weber, and Kathy Schmidt. 83 00:06:14,462 --> 00:06:16,631 - Don't go by that. - [HOLDEN] Why not? 84 00:06:16,715 --> 00:06:18,592 It was given under coercion. 85 00:06:18,675 --> 00:06:20,176 You're saying it was forced? 86 00:06:20,260 --> 00:06:22,304 I am looking at three consecutive life sentences 87 00:06:22,387 --> 00:06:25,015 thanks to an elaborate plot by the Portland PD. 88 00:06:25,932 --> 00:06:28,560 You pleaded guilty to three counts of murder. 89 00:06:28,643 --> 00:06:31,021 They drugged me. Beat me. 90 00:06:31,104 --> 00:06:33,064 Wouldn't let me talk to a lawyer. 91 00:06:33,148 --> 00:06:34,649 Turned away my wife. 92 00:06:35,567 --> 00:06:38,028 Told me they'd go after my kids if I didn't confess. 93 00:06:38,111 --> 00:06:40,030 Are you saying you never met Laura Sullivan? 94 00:06:40,113 --> 00:06:42,866 Yeah, I met her. She was wandering around my front yard. 95 00:06:42,949 --> 00:06:44,509 - Selling encyclopedias. - That's right. 96 00:06:44,533 --> 00:06:46,059 That part of the confession is correct? 97 00:06:46,084 --> 00:06:47,239 Sure. 98 00:06:47,537 --> 00:06:49,164 You said... 99 00:06:50,624 --> 00:06:51,625 she was lost. 100 00:06:51,708 --> 00:06:54,461 It was raining, she couldn't find the right address. 101 00:06:54,544 --> 00:06:56,963 But you told her that you ordered the encyclopedias. 102 00:06:57,047 --> 00:06:58,047 Nope. 103 00:06:58,673 --> 00:06:59,674 You didn't say that? 104 00:06:59,758 --> 00:07:00,925 We got to chatting. 105 00:07:02,052 --> 00:07:03,970 She was an aspiring model. 106 00:07:04,054 --> 00:07:07,641 Not surprising, she was beautiful. 107 00:07:09,559 --> 00:07:11,519 I said I'd take some photos of her. 108 00:07:13,319 --> 00:07:14,946 Is that when you invited her in, 109 00:07:15,013 --> 00:07:16,359 - took her to the garage? - Yep. 110 00:07:16,384 --> 00:07:18,777 Sent your wife and children out to get hamburgers? 111 00:07:18,860 --> 00:07:20,195 I thought we could use privacy. 112 00:07:20,278 --> 00:07:22,530 Then you hit her with a two-by-four? 113 00:07:22,614 --> 00:07:25,659 [CHUCKLES] 114 00:07:26,159 --> 00:07:28,620 Actually, I realized I didn't have any film. 115 00:07:29,245 --> 00:07:31,790 I apologized for wasting her time, showed her out. 116 00:07:33,708 --> 00:07:34,709 Okay. 117 00:07:36,252 --> 00:07:38,264 The day before you met Laura Sullivan. 118 00:07:38,978 --> 00:07:40,527 Can you tell me what you were feeling? 119 00:07:40,552 --> 00:07:43,635 You consider yourself a bit of a photographer, right, Jerry? 120 00:07:43,718 --> 00:07:46,096 Got my first camera at 15. 121 00:07:46,179 --> 00:07:47,514 You're into ladies' fashions? 122 00:07:47,597 --> 00:07:50,767 Mm... it's women, isn't it? Can't call them ladies anymore. 123 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:52,227 Women's fashions. 124 00:07:52,310 --> 00:07:54,688 I've got my magazine subscriptions, I know what's going on. 125 00:07:54,771 --> 00:07:57,232 - You subscribe to... - Mostly shoe catalogs. 126 00:07:58,191 --> 00:07:59,192 Shoe catalogs. 127 00:07:59,275 --> 00:08:00,360 It's my smut. 128 00:08:00,443 --> 00:08:01,987 So you masturbate to it? 129 00:08:02,779 --> 00:08:04,322 That's usually how it works. 130 00:08:04,406 --> 00:08:06,408 Did you masturbate to the photos of your victims? 131 00:08:06,950 --> 00:08:08,994 I'm not sure what you're talking about. 132 00:08:09,077 --> 00:08:11,246 The photos the police found in your garage? 133 00:08:12,789 --> 00:08:15,125 Did you see them? [SCOFFS] 134 00:08:15,208 --> 00:08:17,836 They're sloppy. I didn't take those. 135 00:08:17,919 --> 00:08:20,422 [TENCH] Actually, we did see them. There's one of them... 136 00:08:20,505 --> 00:08:22,007 Holden, maybe you can find it. 137 00:08:31,099 --> 00:08:32,892 [HOLDEN] Did you take this picture? 138 00:08:35,228 --> 00:08:36,228 I don't remember. 139 00:08:37,105 --> 00:08:39,566 Ever since the kids were small, I get these blackouts. 140 00:08:39,649 --> 00:08:41,401 It's hypoglycemia, low blood sugar. 141 00:08:41,484 --> 00:08:45,113 I could walk off the roof of a building and not know it. 142 00:08:47,782 --> 00:08:48,782 You see that? 143 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:51,828 That's you in the photo. 144 00:08:52,495 --> 00:08:54,456 Which means you took this photo. 145 00:08:55,331 --> 00:08:56,916 Which means you killed that girl. 146 00:08:59,961 --> 00:09:01,546 Boy, oh, boy. 147 00:09:03,423 --> 00:09:04,466 Kemper was right. 148 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:06,360 Kemper? 149 00:09:06,384 --> 00:09:08,428 [BRUDOS] He said you guys were idiots. 150 00:09:10,305 --> 00:09:13,224 But I'd call you fucking morons. 151 00:09:13,308 --> 00:09:15,185 [CHUCKLES] 152 00:09:15,268 --> 00:09:17,479 Big Ed with his big mouth. 153 00:09:18,313 --> 00:09:23,860 I bet you swallowed every fucking line that came out of him. 154 00:09:23,943 --> 00:09:25,403 And he must have loved it. 155 00:09:25,487 --> 00:09:29,449 Wait a minute. As far as I know, all his communication is monitored. 156 00:09:29,532 --> 00:09:31,159 What can I say? 157 00:09:31,242 --> 00:09:33,411 Prisons are like knitting circles. 158 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,457 Word gets around. [LAUGHS] 159 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,546 Fuck if I know. We should find out. 160 00:09:43,637 --> 00:09:45,310 Well, yeah. It's got to affect the study 161 00:09:45,335 --> 00:09:46,831 if our subjects are all pen pals. 162 00:09:46,883 --> 00:09:49,010 I'll call the superintendent at Vacaville. 163 00:09:49,302 --> 00:09:50,887 Or let's just go back and ask. 164 00:09:51,638 --> 00:09:55,058 What are the chances the warden's gonna know what's going on? 165 00:09:55,141 --> 00:09:56,434 You might as well call. 166 00:09:56,518 --> 00:09:58,645 Do you really think that Kemper called us idiots? 167 00:09:59,229 --> 00:10:00,855 It doesn't sound like Ed to me. 168 00:10:03,733 --> 00:10:06,319 We could phone Kemper, ask him directly. 169 00:10:06,402 --> 00:10:09,656 - Ask him if he called us idiots? - If he talks to Brudos. 170 00:10:09,739 --> 00:10:11,616 Then we would be idiots. 171 00:10:11,699 --> 00:10:14,327 Excuse me. I believe I'm in the middle seat. 172 00:10:14,410 --> 00:10:17,288 Oh, yeah? Well, that's all right. You can have the aisle. 173 00:10:17,372 --> 00:10:19,958 [MAN] Yes, but that's the seat number on my ticket. 174 00:10:20,041 --> 00:10:23,128 It's okay. My partner and I need to talk, works out for both of us. 175 00:10:24,629 --> 00:10:28,091 I really think it's best if I sat in the seat that's on my ticket. 176 00:10:36,057 --> 00:10:37,267 Thank you. 177 00:10:50,738 --> 00:10:51,823 Hey, Holden. 178 00:10:53,116 --> 00:10:54,325 Does this turn you on? 179 00:10:55,994 --> 00:10:57,036 [HOLDEN] Oh... 180 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,247 - [TENCH] But it's sexy, right? - [HOLDEN] Well, no. 181 00:10:59,330 --> 00:11:00,957 How different is it from this? 182 00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:04,586 I'd say it's pretty different. 183 00:11:05,253 --> 00:11:06,588 To us, maybe. 184 00:11:07,255 --> 00:11:08,256 This one... 185 00:11:08,339 --> 00:11:10,758 This could be in Playboy, easy. 186 00:11:12,302 --> 00:11:14,178 Movies, TV. 187 00:11:14,262 --> 00:11:16,306 Classic damsel in distress. 188 00:11:16,973 --> 00:11:19,809 So what are you saying, advertising creates psychos? 189 00:11:19,893 --> 00:11:21,311 All men are pervs? 190 00:11:21,394 --> 00:11:23,813 No, but sex is our trigger. 191 00:11:24,397 --> 00:11:25,773 I'm sure Wendy has a theory. 192 00:11:25,857 --> 00:11:28,568 But this? This is how we get to him. 193 00:11:32,697 --> 00:11:35,033 Please. I can switch with you. 194 00:11:35,658 --> 00:11:37,201 I'm enjoying the leg room. 195 00:11:40,455 --> 00:11:44,959 [BRUDOS ON TAPE] What can I say? Prisons are like knitting circles. 196 00:11:45,043 --> 00:11:47,629 Word gets around. [LAUGHING] 197 00:11:50,006 --> 00:11:51,716 - Fascinating. - You think so? 198 00:11:54,093 --> 00:11:56,596 Hypoglycemia? Is he lying or denying? 199 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:57,889 My vote's with lying. 200 00:11:58,932 --> 00:12:00,892 We can learn from what he doesn't tell us. 201 00:12:00,975 --> 00:12:03,256 You're not always going to get a Chatty Cathy like Kemper. 202 00:12:03,311 --> 00:12:05,271 Well, yeah, the whole talking to Kemper thing. 203 00:12:05,355 --> 00:12:07,899 We called around. There's no evidence they were in touch. 204 00:12:07,982 --> 00:12:10,652 - Which doesn't mean they haven't. - God, if only... 205 00:12:10,959 --> 00:12:13,080 If they're corresponding, it could screw up our thing. 206 00:12:13,105 --> 00:12:14,130 Really? 207 00:12:14,155 --> 00:12:16,755 [HOLDEN] How is the study valid if our subjects can compare notes? 208 00:12:16,824 --> 00:12:19,661 Wouldn't it be... cross-contamination? 209 00:12:19,744 --> 00:12:21,621 What would these two guys talk about? 210 00:12:21,704 --> 00:12:23,744 Would Brudos share with Kemper everything he's done? 211 00:12:24,374 --> 00:12:27,168 These are two organized killers, but they're on opposite sides 212 00:12:27,251 --> 00:12:29,291 of the spectrum when it comes to what they'll admit. 213 00:12:29,337 --> 00:12:31,089 Kemper is overly forthcoming. 214 00:12:31,172 --> 00:12:34,258 Brudos denies everything, even when confronted with evidence. 215 00:12:35,718 --> 00:12:37,804 It's a new behavior to sort by: 216 00:12:37,887 --> 00:12:41,057 post-conviction admission or non-admission of guilt. 217 00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:42,180 You're excited about this. 218 00:12:42,953 --> 00:12:43,953 I am. 219 00:12:43,977 --> 00:12:46,562 [TENCH] We didn't get anything useful out of that prick. 220 00:12:46,646 --> 00:12:47,689 I'm telling you, you did. 221 00:12:47,772 --> 00:12:51,234 Maybe in an academic sense, but this isn't only about your study. 222 00:12:51,317 --> 00:12:52,443 [CARR] My study? 223 00:12:52,527 --> 00:12:55,029 Once we've collected all the data, we can all apply it. 224 00:12:55,113 --> 00:12:56,823 You mean, in four years? 225 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,658 I need coffee. 226 00:13:05,248 --> 00:13:07,709 - The way he lies is very interesting. - How so? 227 00:13:07,792 --> 00:13:09,210 Well, it's just so exaggerated. 228 00:13:09,293 --> 00:13:11,087 He can't possibly expect you to believe him. 229 00:13:11,170 --> 00:13:12,922 We called him on a lie, showed him evidence, 230 00:13:13,006 --> 00:13:14,424 and that ended the interview. 231 00:13:14,507 --> 00:13:16,092 So don't back him into a corner. 232 00:13:16,175 --> 00:13:18,761 Guys, post-conviction sorting? What good is that? 233 00:13:18,845 --> 00:13:20,930 We need pre-apprehension info, not post. 234 00:13:21,597 --> 00:13:23,683 You know, Bill, all categories are important 235 00:13:23,766 --> 00:13:25,518 for cross-referencing and sorting. 236 00:13:25,601 --> 00:13:28,229 I bet you dinner that this guy's got more to add. 237 00:13:29,788 --> 00:13:31,654 You read the story about the girl he held at knifepoint 238 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:32,945 when he was 15? 239 00:13:33,192 --> 00:13:35,486 Made her undress, took pictures, locked her in a corncrib. 240 00:13:35,570 --> 00:13:37,530 Then pretended to be his own twin brother. 241 00:13:37,613 --> 00:13:39,157 Right. And he talked all about Jerry. 242 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,325 - That shows how fucked up he is. - Maybe. 243 00:13:41,409 --> 00:13:43,929 There's something about disguise, pretending to be someone else. 244 00:13:43,953 --> 00:13:45,497 It gives him room for what? 245 00:13:46,664 --> 00:13:48,958 He said he started blacking out when his kids were small. 246 00:13:49,042 --> 00:13:51,294 So he isn't averse to talking about his family. 247 00:13:51,377 --> 00:13:53,046 Bill, you could talk about your son. 248 00:13:53,129 --> 00:13:54,714 - No. - Try. 249 00:13:54,797 --> 00:13:56,466 I'm not discussing my son with him. 250 00:13:56,549 --> 00:13:59,229 Well, you don't have to talk about your family. You can make one up. 251 00:13:59,302 --> 00:14:01,054 It's just about building rapport. 252 00:14:01,137 --> 00:14:05,099 And he asked for stuff, cigarettes and pizza. Indulge him. 253 00:14:09,604 --> 00:14:11,522 - When do you want to go back? - I don't. 254 00:14:12,231 --> 00:14:13,231 Next week? 255 00:14:15,193 --> 00:14:16,193 Sure. 256 00:14:22,742 --> 00:14:25,828 Hey, Holden. I asked a buddy of mine with the Portland PD. 257 00:14:25,912 --> 00:14:26,954 You might want to... 258 00:14:28,664 --> 00:14:29,664 On two. 259 00:14:36,339 --> 00:14:38,216 [LINE RINGING] 260 00:14:43,971 --> 00:14:46,182 - [WOMAN] Hello? - Mrs. Cooke? 261 00:14:46,265 --> 00:14:48,059 - Yes? - [WHISPERS] Who's Mrs. Cooke? 262 00:14:48,142 --> 00:14:50,561 - Mrs. Darcie Cooke? - Yes? 263 00:14:50,645 --> 00:14:53,731 Hi. My name is Bill Tench, I'm with the FBI. 264 00:14:56,067 --> 00:14:57,276 Is this about Jer? 265 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,987 About your ex-husband, Mr. Brudos. 266 00:15:00,822 --> 00:15:03,324 [SIGHS] Am I required to talk to you? 267 00:15:03,408 --> 00:15:06,035 Well, no, but I only have a couple of questions. 268 00:15:06,119 --> 00:15:08,996 I'm sorry, I changed my last name for a reason. 269 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,080 [LINE DISCONNECTS] 270 00:15:14,335 --> 00:15:16,421 She said, "Is this about Jer?" 271 00:15:16,921 --> 00:15:17,921 "Jer." 272 00:15:19,632 --> 00:15:22,427 Those shirts looked good on you. I can't believe you didn't buy them. 273 00:15:22,885 --> 00:15:24,262 I don't like patterns. 274 00:15:24,762 --> 00:15:27,265 You know you dress the same off-duty as on-duty? 275 00:15:27,348 --> 00:15:28,975 I'm wearing plain clothes. 276 00:15:29,058 --> 00:15:30,977 Yeah, plain is right. 277 00:15:36,441 --> 00:15:38,234 - [DEBBIE] Ooh... - [HOLDEN] No. 278 00:15:43,781 --> 00:15:45,199 [MAN] Seven and a half. 279 00:15:45,283 --> 00:15:48,035 - Are you sure? I usually wear a seven. - Hmm. 280 00:15:48,578 --> 00:15:50,371 Your shoes been a little tight lately? 281 00:15:51,164 --> 00:15:52,957 [DEBBIE] My boots, maybe, a little. 282 00:15:53,541 --> 00:15:56,878 Okay. Tell you what. I'll bring out seven-and-a-half in all these. 283 00:15:58,004 --> 00:16:00,590 Yes, please. Are my feet getting bigger? 284 00:16:02,091 --> 00:16:04,969 Well, it's just half a size. It's not that big a deal. 285 00:16:05,052 --> 00:16:06,304 I don't want big feet. 286 00:16:07,138 --> 00:16:10,391 - You do not have big feet. - That's right, and I don't want them. 287 00:16:13,394 --> 00:16:15,521 - No way. - Come on. 288 00:16:16,147 --> 00:16:17,565 I don't need new shoes. 289 00:16:18,191 --> 00:16:19,233 Please. 290 00:16:34,332 --> 00:16:36,250 - You look bitchin'. - Can I take it off now? 291 00:16:36,334 --> 00:16:38,669 - You don't like them? - I look like a Village Person. 292 00:16:38,753 --> 00:16:39,754 Ugh! Holden. 293 00:16:48,971 --> 00:16:50,932 - Excuse me, sir. - Yes. 294 00:16:51,724 --> 00:16:54,435 Could you tell me the largest size you have of that shoe? 295 00:16:54,714 --> 00:16:55,718 [MAN] That one? 296 00:16:55,743 --> 00:16:57,179 - Yeah. - I'm not sure. 297 00:16:57,204 --> 00:16:58,296 I have to go take a look. 298 00:16:58,356 --> 00:17:00,191 Could you put a pair on hold for me? 299 00:17:01,275 --> 00:17:02,275 Sure. 300 00:17:14,830 --> 00:17:18,543 [LAUGHING] 301 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,306 Hello, ladies. 302 00:17:33,182 --> 00:17:34,392 Back for more? 303 00:17:34,475 --> 00:17:35,810 Tell us where to sit. 304 00:17:37,144 --> 00:17:39,146 [HOLDEN] That won't be necessary this time. 305 00:17:40,064 --> 00:17:41,190 Great. 306 00:17:45,736 --> 00:17:46,736 Want to arm wrestle? 307 00:17:48,197 --> 00:17:49,407 How about a smoke? 308 00:17:50,616 --> 00:17:52,243 Well, well, well. 309 00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:56,330 I want him to light me. 310 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,169 How'd you get that scar? 311 00:18:03,546 --> 00:18:04,839 Darcie... 312 00:18:04,922 --> 00:18:08,009 found out I was chasing skirt at OSU. 313 00:18:08,092 --> 00:18:10,636 - Came after me with a Ginsu. - No, really. 314 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,013 God's truth. 315 00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:14,765 She loved horror films. 316 00:18:15,516 --> 00:18:17,018 We'd appreciate honesty. 317 00:18:17,101 --> 00:18:18,311 About my scar? 318 00:18:20,646 --> 00:18:23,065 We know that you've been jumped in here a few times. 319 00:18:23,149 --> 00:18:24,775 [LAUGHS] 320 00:18:24,859 --> 00:18:27,987 If you got all the answers, what do you need from me? 321 00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:30,526 - We want details. - We want to know why. 322 00:18:30,580 --> 00:18:31,668 [BRUDOS] Why what? 323 00:18:31,713 --> 00:18:33,242 Let's start with the women's clothes. 324 00:18:33,326 --> 00:18:35,286 Could you be more specific? 325 00:18:35,369 --> 00:18:37,022 In her testimony, 326 00:18:37,109 --> 00:18:40,190 your wife said you approached her dressed as a woman. 327 00:18:40,249 --> 00:18:41,834 Hmm... she said... 328 00:18:43,294 --> 00:18:45,880 whatever the police wanted her to say. 329 00:18:45,963 --> 00:18:48,924 But you did approach her dressed as a woman. 330 00:18:49,008 --> 00:18:50,635 - Are you married? - [TENCH] Yeah. 331 00:18:50,718 --> 00:18:53,179 - What's your wife's name? - None of your business. 332 00:18:53,262 --> 00:18:54,847 I appreciate honesty. 333 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:58,600 Nancy. 334 00:18:59,101 --> 00:19:02,813 How does Nancy deal with things that she doesn't understand? 335 00:19:02,897 --> 00:19:04,148 I don't follow. 336 00:19:04,231 --> 00:19:05,983 Let's just say, my wife... 337 00:19:07,777 --> 00:19:09,612 was less than adventurous. 338 00:19:09,695 --> 00:19:13,157 - You were young when you got married. - Twenty-two. She was 17. 339 00:19:13,491 --> 00:19:15,826 - What was it about her? - She popped my cherry. 340 00:19:15,910 --> 00:19:17,370 [LAUGHS] That seems old-fashioned. 341 00:19:17,453 --> 00:19:19,705 You married the first girl you had sex with? 342 00:19:19,789 --> 00:19:22,083 It wasn't that unusual in 1961. 343 00:19:22,166 --> 00:19:25,795 But you had... "interests" by then. 344 00:19:26,295 --> 00:19:28,631 Stealing lingerie off of clotheslines. 345 00:19:28,714 --> 00:19:31,717 You photographed a neighborhood girl naked when you were 15. 346 00:19:31,801 --> 00:19:34,470 Just a healthy, red-blooded American male. 347 00:19:34,553 --> 00:19:36,972 - What about the shoes? - [BRUDOS] What shoes? 348 00:19:37,056 --> 00:19:38,307 In your garage. 349 00:19:38,391 --> 00:19:39,934 - The women's shoes. - Ah. 350 00:19:40,017 --> 00:19:42,353 The wife loved to shop. 351 00:19:42,436 --> 00:19:45,773 There were nearly a hundred pairs. Most of them size 16. 352 00:19:45,856 --> 00:19:48,192 [BRUDOS] Ah, those. Friends sent those to me. 353 00:19:48,275 --> 00:19:49,860 - Friends? - That's right. 354 00:19:49,944 --> 00:19:51,821 [TENCH] Why would friends send you shoes? 355 00:19:55,282 --> 00:19:57,576 Started as a goof. Got out of hand. 356 00:19:57,660 --> 00:19:58,660 That's interesting. 357 00:20:00,996 --> 00:20:02,748 - What's that? - Hmm? 358 00:20:05,584 --> 00:20:07,545 A reward for honesty. 359 00:20:07,628 --> 00:20:10,589 [TENCH] Come on, Jerry. Your friends didn't send you those shoes. 360 00:20:10,673 --> 00:20:13,843 What can I say, I'm a collector. 361 00:20:13,926 --> 00:20:15,010 Do you wear them? 362 00:20:15,094 --> 00:20:16,595 I don't have to. 363 00:20:16,679 --> 00:20:18,639 Don't have to, to what? 364 00:20:19,265 --> 00:20:21,100 - You know. - Get off. 365 00:20:21,911 --> 00:20:22,911 He's adorable. 366 00:20:22,935 --> 00:20:25,146 I thought wearing them was part of the allure? 367 00:20:27,273 --> 00:20:30,526 - Why's he so interested? - I'm really just asking for Darcie. 368 00:20:30,609 --> 00:20:33,154 She still doesn't get it. We caught up on the phone. 369 00:20:33,237 --> 00:20:34,739 - Right. - Nice woman. 370 00:20:36,073 --> 00:20:37,241 My wife... 371 00:20:38,075 --> 00:20:39,226 wouldn't talk about me. 372 00:20:39,273 --> 00:20:40,327 Ex-wife. 373 00:20:40,411 --> 00:20:42,413 [BRUDOS] She had to divorce me to protect the kids. 374 00:20:42,496 --> 00:20:43,998 And change her last name? 375 00:20:45,458 --> 00:20:48,043 I'm sure it makes it easier for them in school. 376 00:20:48,127 --> 00:20:49,962 [TENCH] What would they say to their friends? 377 00:20:50,045 --> 00:20:53,132 Not just about the murders. How do you explain the cross-dressing? 378 00:20:53,215 --> 00:20:55,426 "Dad's a tranny? Dad's a fag?" 379 00:20:55,509 --> 00:20:56,969 Fuck you, man. 380 00:20:57,052 --> 00:20:59,346 How does it fucking work with the shoes? 381 00:21:00,055 --> 00:21:02,600 He is dying to know. 382 00:21:02,683 --> 00:21:06,145 I'll pass it along to Darcie. Ten years later, she's still confused. 383 00:21:06,228 --> 00:21:09,273 - Give her my love. - I'll do that... Jer. 384 00:21:13,319 --> 00:21:14,319 Tony! Hey! 385 00:21:14,862 --> 00:21:16,363 - Get in here! - What are you doing? 386 00:21:16,447 --> 00:21:17,567 [BRUDOS] Go fuck yourselves. 387 00:21:17,591 --> 00:21:19,909 - [TENCH] They're just questions. - I've had enough. 388 00:21:19,992 --> 00:21:21,792 - [TONY] What's going on? - [BRUDOS] I'm done. 389 00:21:21,816 --> 00:21:23,401 - Wait a minute. - [BRUDOS] I'm done! 390 00:21:23,484 --> 00:21:24,830 Bill, tell him. 391 00:21:24,914 --> 00:21:27,917 We didn't talk to your stupid wife. She hung up on us. 392 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,835 [HOLDEN] And you're forgetting something. 393 00:21:51,774 --> 00:21:53,692 Ah... 394 00:21:55,069 --> 00:21:56,153 Brand new. 395 00:21:56,737 --> 00:21:58,572 [HOLDEN] They're the biggest size they had. 396 00:22:06,247 --> 00:22:08,749 You should have brought me a pair of Nancy's. 397 00:22:08,833 --> 00:22:10,459 - Fuck you. - [BRUDOS] Fuck you. 398 00:22:22,054 --> 00:22:25,182 So when did it start, your interest in women's shoes? 399 00:22:25,266 --> 00:22:27,184 It didn't start. It was always there. 400 00:22:28,143 --> 00:22:32,523 There must have been a moment during puberty when it became... sexual. 401 00:22:32,606 --> 00:22:34,733 I got my first pair of heels at five. 402 00:22:34,817 --> 00:22:35,817 Five? 403 00:22:36,443 --> 00:22:38,988 - Five years old? - [BRUDOS] Stilettos. 404 00:22:39,071 --> 00:22:41,490 Found them in the junkyard, brought 'em home. 405 00:22:41,574 --> 00:22:42,575 [HOLDEN] Why? 406 00:22:42,658 --> 00:22:45,703 Never seen anything like 'em before, except in pictures. 407 00:22:45,786 --> 00:22:47,621 Didn't your mom wear heels? 408 00:22:47,705 --> 00:22:48,706 Never. 409 00:22:50,499 --> 00:22:52,219 What'd she think when you brought them home? 410 00:22:59,967 --> 00:23:02,219 One time, my mom walked in on me jacking off. 411 00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:03,970 Came into my bedroom. 412 00:23:04,013 --> 00:23:06,390 - I hadn't locked the door. - Really? 413 00:23:07,808 --> 00:23:08,934 - Yeah. - What'd she do? 414 00:23:09,476 --> 00:23:11,270 I'd never seen her so shocked. 415 00:23:11,353 --> 00:23:14,231 It's like I was doing something too horrible to even imagine. 416 00:23:14,315 --> 00:23:15,858 She thought I needed help. 417 00:23:16,275 --> 00:23:18,235 She offered to help? 418 00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:22,865 - Psychological help. - [LAUGHS] 419 00:23:22,948 --> 00:23:26,827 - My mom burned the shoes. - The stilettos? 420 00:23:26,910 --> 00:23:28,829 Dragged me into the backyard, 421 00:23:28,912 --> 00:23:31,165 poured kerosene all over 'em, lit 'em up. 422 00:23:31,915 --> 00:23:34,835 - That must have been memorable. - She always said she wanted a girl. 423 00:23:36,503 --> 00:23:38,297 She wanted you to be a girl? 424 00:23:38,380 --> 00:23:40,591 She had my brother, that's what she wanted next. 425 00:23:40,674 --> 00:23:42,718 - She told you this? - All the time. 426 00:23:42,801 --> 00:23:45,054 Why was she so upset when you brought home the shoes? 427 00:23:45,846 --> 00:23:47,931 I was wearing 'em around the house. 428 00:23:49,099 --> 00:23:51,393 [HOLDEN] Were you trying to be what she wanted you to be? 429 00:23:51,477 --> 00:23:52,477 What? 430 00:23:52,978 --> 00:23:55,189 Were you trying to be a girl? 431 00:23:57,983 --> 00:24:01,362 Fuck no, I never wanted to be a girl. 432 00:24:01,945 --> 00:24:03,989 I liked the shoes. 433 00:24:04,073 --> 00:24:06,659 I didn't know why she was so angry. 434 00:24:06,742 --> 00:24:08,195 I took a pair of my teacher's shoes, 435 00:24:08,220 --> 00:24:10,103 and she didn't lose her fucking mind. 436 00:24:10,162 --> 00:24:11,246 Your teacher's shoes? 437 00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:13,207 Mrs. Kernegan. First grade. 438 00:24:14,375 --> 00:24:16,395 She'd kick her shoes off under the desk. 439 00:24:16,420 --> 00:24:17,430 Heels? 440 00:24:17,455 --> 00:24:20,255 Low, but stylish. She checked our book bags. 441 00:24:20,339 --> 00:24:23,217 When she found them on me, I thought she'd go berserk, 442 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:26,136 but... she was just curious. 443 00:24:26,220 --> 00:24:28,222 - About what? - Why I had taken them. 444 00:24:32,768 --> 00:24:35,229 Women always want to know, don't they? 445 00:24:35,979 --> 00:24:38,357 - At least they think they do. - Did Darcie want to know? 446 00:24:41,985 --> 00:24:43,696 It's tricky when you're married. 447 00:24:44,530 --> 00:24:47,282 You either have to deny yourself or... 448 00:24:47,866 --> 00:24:49,410 keep a private space. 449 00:24:49,493 --> 00:24:50,619 Like a golf course. 450 00:24:50,703 --> 00:24:51,912 [BRUDOS CHUCKLES] 451 00:24:52,830 --> 00:24:55,499 I put a lock on the garage, installed an intercom 452 00:24:55,582 --> 00:24:58,022 so she could call in if she needed something from the freezer. 453 00:24:58,085 --> 00:24:59,631 Wouldn't want her finding your trophies. 454 00:24:59,656 --> 00:25:00,836 [LAUGHS] 455 00:25:03,006 --> 00:25:06,468 She would not have wanted that. 456 00:25:26,155 --> 00:25:27,489 [BRUDOS PANTING] 457 00:25:32,411 --> 00:25:33,620 [TENCH] What the fuck? 458 00:25:38,333 --> 00:25:39,333 Tony! 459 00:25:39,877 --> 00:25:42,254 - That was amazing. - Yeah, that was great. 460 00:25:42,337 --> 00:25:44,423 All that shit about his mom burning the shoes. 461 00:25:44,506 --> 00:25:45,506 Uh-huh. 462 00:25:46,133 --> 00:25:47,426 The high heels worked. 463 00:25:47,509 --> 00:25:48,802 You could say that. 464 00:25:49,511 --> 00:25:50,763 Let me ask you something. 465 00:25:51,305 --> 00:25:53,432 Was that true about your mom walking in on you? 466 00:25:53,515 --> 00:25:55,893 - Yeah. - It didn't bother you, using that? 467 00:25:55,976 --> 00:25:58,562 Who doesn't have a weird story about their mom and sex? 468 00:25:58,854 --> 00:26:02,649 You're telling a private, personal story to a murderous asshole. 469 00:26:05,611 --> 00:26:06,653 It bothered me. 470 00:26:13,535 --> 00:26:16,914 - Is this about Nancy? - [TENCH SCOFFS] 471 00:26:20,436 --> 00:26:21,436 Nothing wrong with... 472 00:26:21,460 --> 00:26:23,378 If what we're doing doesn't get under your skin, 473 00:26:23,462 --> 00:26:25,923 you're more screwed up than I thought or kidding yourself. 474 00:26:43,857 --> 00:26:47,569 You're just like a son to me. You never did nothing I told you to do. 475 00:26:49,780 --> 00:26:53,492 [MAN 2] Hey, Archie. We want you and Ma to come visit us out there. 476 00:26:54,368 --> 00:26:57,538 [ARCHIE] Well, maybe your mother-in-law can do that, but, you know... 477 00:26:57,621 --> 00:26:59,623 [TV CONTINUES INDISTINCTLY] 478 00:27:48,005 --> 00:27:49,548 [WATER RUNS] 479 00:27:50,924 --> 00:27:52,509 [CAT MEOWING] 480 00:28:17,242 --> 00:28:18,242 Hello? 481 00:28:20,412 --> 00:28:22,456 - [CAT MEOWS] - Where are you? 482 00:29:49,543 --> 00:29:52,004 [NANCY ON PHONE] They almost said it was our fault. 483 00:29:52,087 --> 00:29:55,757 Jesus, Nancy. I don't know what to say. 484 00:29:55,841 --> 00:29:58,260 Well, I was hoping for a little more than that. 485 00:29:58,343 --> 00:30:00,178 I can't talk about this now. Okay? 486 00:30:00,262 --> 00:30:02,822 Brian's teacher thinks we're not paying enough attention to this. 487 00:30:03,557 --> 00:30:05,434 That's why he's acting out. 488 00:30:06,393 --> 00:30:08,113 - We have to do something. - [TENCH] Uh-huh. 489 00:30:08,854 --> 00:30:11,648 Is that a "Uh-huh, I know," or is that "Uh-huh, uh-huh"? 490 00:30:11,732 --> 00:30:13,066 The first. 491 00:30:15,027 --> 00:30:16,945 You want to go to Lamplighter tonight or not? 492 00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:19,197 Sure. But why are you being like this? 493 00:30:19,281 --> 00:30:21,992 Like I said, I really can't talk about this now. Okay? 494 00:30:22,701 --> 00:30:24,244 - Did you finish it? - I did. 495 00:30:25,537 --> 00:30:27,331 It's pretty great, right? 496 00:30:27,414 --> 00:30:29,499 Can you believe what he said about his mom? 497 00:30:32,377 --> 00:30:34,212 - Did you listen to it? - Mm-hmm. 498 00:30:36,381 --> 00:30:38,258 What's in the box? 499 00:30:38,342 --> 00:30:40,802 Holden's idea. You figure it out? 500 00:30:40,886 --> 00:30:42,512 I'm guessing shoes. 501 00:30:42,596 --> 00:30:43,847 [TENCH] He got an erection. 502 00:30:43,930 --> 00:30:46,475 - Isn't that what you wanted? - We wanted to get him talking. 503 00:30:46,558 --> 00:30:48,053 No, you baited him with those shoes 504 00:30:48,078 --> 00:30:49,358 and you lied to him about his wife. 505 00:30:49,394 --> 00:30:52,147 He pulled that bullshit about Kemper, so we used the same tactic. 506 00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:55,609 - So it was revenge? - No. Speaking his language. 507 00:30:55,692 --> 00:30:57,986 This is a scientific study, not a locker room hazing. 508 00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:59,488 - Let me explain. - [CARR] Please. 509 00:30:59,571 --> 00:31:01,948 Guys communicate in a certain way. 510 00:31:02,032 --> 00:31:05,369 It can be rough, but it's like a code, it gets out the conflict. 511 00:31:05,452 --> 00:31:07,746 Well, thank you for illuminating me on male rituals. 512 00:31:08,205 --> 00:31:10,165 You threw our questionnaire right out the window. 513 00:31:10,248 --> 00:31:11,888 Your questionnaire, which wasn't working. 514 00:31:11,917 --> 00:31:13,365 All you wanted to do was force him 515 00:31:13,390 --> 00:31:14,944 to admit that he wears women's clothes. 516 00:31:15,003 --> 00:31:17,047 Yeah, get under his disguise. 517 00:31:17,130 --> 00:31:19,257 [TENCH] Cross-dressing is part of his psychology. 518 00:31:19,341 --> 00:31:23,011 His fixation on women's clothes, women's bodies, wanting to own them, 519 00:31:23,095 --> 00:31:24,471 wanting to inhabit them. 520 00:31:24,554 --> 00:31:27,265 If we can understand that, we can recognize it in another killer. 521 00:31:27,349 --> 00:31:30,950 Cross-dressing is not an antecedent to homicidal behavior. 522 00:31:30,997 --> 00:31:32,079 I didn't say that. 523 00:31:32,104 --> 00:31:34,689 For most people, it's a harmless form of expression. 524 00:31:34,773 --> 00:31:36,274 - Most people? - Those who do it. 525 00:31:36,358 --> 00:31:39,528 But it's usually sexual, right? And we know sex drives our subjects. 526 00:31:39,611 --> 00:31:40,821 It's sometimes sexual. 527 00:31:40,904 --> 00:31:43,490 Transvestism has been practiced in every era, 528 00:31:43,573 --> 00:31:44,973 - in every human culture. - Come on. 529 00:31:44,997 --> 00:31:46,993 If you want to teach a class, go back to Boston. 530 00:31:47,077 --> 00:31:48,745 No, you weren't speaking his language. 531 00:31:48,829 --> 00:31:50,642 You were persecuting him about something 532 00:31:50,667 --> 00:31:52,688 that challenges your masculinity. 533 00:31:52,916 --> 00:31:54,709 - What? - That interview was personal. 534 00:31:54,793 --> 00:31:57,671 - No, this is personal. - Guys. 535 00:31:57,754 --> 00:31:59,381 - You're being irrational. - Oh, Jesus. 536 00:31:59,464 --> 00:32:01,144 - Where's this coming from? - I don't know. 537 00:32:01,168 --> 00:32:03,510 Maybe shock at your total lack of objectivity. 538 00:32:03,593 --> 00:32:05,353 - We were supposed to be objective? - Mm-hmm. 539 00:32:05,377 --> 00:32:07,010 I seem to remember you encouraging us 540 00:32:07,037 --> 00:32:08,622 to use our families to get to him. 541 00:32:08,682 --> 00:32:11,017 - How objective is that? - We have to use strategies. 542 00:32:11,101 --> 00:32:13,895 I said use fake information, as long as you establish rapport... 543 00:32:13,979 --> 00:32:16,523 [TENCH] That's not what you said. And it's not possible. 544 00:32:16,606 --> 00:32:18,167 It is not possible to communicate 545 00:32:18,192 --> 00:32:19,925 with someone like Brudos and be fake. 546 00:32:19,985 --> 00:32:22,278 We can hassle him or we can open up to him, 547 00:32:22,303 --> 00:32:24,054 but either option has a cost. 548 00:32:26,867 --> 00:32:29,411 [SLOW JAZZ PLAYING] 549 00:32:29,494 --> 00:32:30,871 [NANCY] Musical therapy. 550 00:32:32,164 --> 00:32:33,790 She comes highly recommended. 551 00:32:33,874 --> 00:32:36,376 She has like ten years of experience... Oh. 552 00:32:43,008 --> 00:32:44,008 Thank you. 553 00:32:45,635 --> 00:32:48,388 The only thing is, she's in Charlottesville. 554 00:32:49,347 --> 00:32:51,183 I looked for someone in D.C. 555 00:32:51,433 --> 00:32:54,394 You'd think they'd have music therapists in D.C. 556 00:32:54,478 --> 00:32:55,938 with all the politicians' kids there, 557 00:32:55,963 --> 00:32:59,173 but... maybe it's considered too alternative. 558 00:33:00,233 --> 00:33:03,028 I don't know that she's a hippie. I only talked to her on the phone. 559 00:33:03,111 --> 00:33:06,198 But she... she sounded very nice. 560 00:33:06,907 --> 00:33:07,908 Professional. 561 00:33:08,742 --> 00:33:10,285 [SONG ENDS] 562 00:33:15,207 --> 00:33:16,750 I could drive him there once a week. 563 00:33:16,833 --> 00:33:18,713 Maybe even get him out of school a little early, 564 00:33:18,793 --> 00:33:21,796 which could also be a good thing, after what happened today. 565 00:33:25,133 --> 00:33:27,177 - How much is she? - Forty-five. 566 00:33:28,595 --> 00:33:29,846 An hour? 567 00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:31,264 An hour and a half. 568 00:33:32,682 --> 00:33:35,685 - Nancy, that's a lot. - You spend that much on a golf club. 569 00:33:36,728 --> 00:33:39,105 Yeah, but when you buy a club, you have the club. 570 00:33:42,359 --> 00:33:45,529 I got a recommendation for a child psychologist in Woodbridge, 571 00:33:45,612 --> 00:33:46,696 much closer. 572 00:33:47,614 --> 00:33:49,866 - You got a recommendation? When? - Mm-hmm. 573 00:33:49,950 --> 00:33:51,576 About a month ago. 574 00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:52,869 Why didn't you tell me? 575 00:33:53,370 --> 00:33:55,664 Because I really don't want to send him to a shrink. 576 00:33:55,747 --> 00:33:57,067 - Me neither. - But at that price, 577 00:33:57,123 --> 00:33:59,793 I'd rather send him to a doctor than some hippie musician. 578 00:33:59,876 --> 00:34:02,379 Please. This is not about the money. 579 00:34:02,462 --> 00:34:03,547 Of course not. 580 00:34:05,048 --> 00:34:06,049 I was... 581 00:34:07,050 --> 00:34:08,134 [SIGHS] 582 00:34:09,761 --> 00:34:11,680 I was hoping it wouldn't go this far. 583 00:34:48,633 --> 00:34:49,926 It's a private school. 584 00:34:50,594 --> 00:34:53,305 If he keeps biting other children, he's gonna get kicked out. 585 00:34:53,388 --> 00:34:55,849 He's getting bullied, so he's defending himself. 586 00:34:56,308 --> 00:34:57,829 We should have held him back a year. 587 00:34:57,854 --> 00:34:59,501 I don't think that's the problem. 588 00:35:00,312 --> 00:35:02,522 He's fine with me, he's great with Julie. 589 00:35:08,028 --> 00:35:10,655 I've read a couple of books which recommend music therapy 590 00:35:10,739 --> 00:35:12,657 when a child needs communication training. 591 00:35:12,741 --> 00:35:15,785 "Communication training." Is that what the books call it? 592 00:35:15,869 --> 00:35:17,996 Sure describes what we need. 593 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,791 I'm exhausted, Nancy. Could we table this for tonight? 594 00:35:26,463 --> 00:35:28,506 [MAN ON TV] Looks like we gotta do it ourselves. 595 00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:29,883 Let's work on these ropes. 596 00:35:30,697 --> 00:35:31,808 [DOOR OPENS] 597 00:35:31,868 --> 00:35:33,011 Hi, Julie. 598 00:35:33,094 --> 00:35:34,971 [MAN ON TV] It's no use! 599 00:35:35,055 --> 00:35:37,599 [NANCY SIGHS] We're home a little early tonight. 600 00:35:40,101 --> 00:35:41,394 Hey. 601 00:35:41,936 --> 00:35:43,313 Is everything okay? 602 00:35:44,064 --> 00:35:45,065 Is Brian all right? 603 00:35:45,148 --> 00:35:46,316 He's asleep. 604 00:35:47,817 --> 00:35:49,319 Did something happen? 605 00:35:49,402 --> 00:35:52,656 When I was putting him to bed, I found something under it. 606 00:35:52,739 --> 00:35:54,783 - What did you find? - [TENCH] I don't have change, 607 00:35:54,866 --> 00:35:56,159 so here's a little bonus. 608 00:36:00,955 --> 00:36:02,595 [NANCY] She found this under Brian's bed. 609 00:36:03,375 --> 00:36:04,959 [SIGHS] 610 00:36:07,087 --> 00:36:08,254 Julie, I'm so sorry. 611 00:36:08,797 --> 00:36:11,899 You know I'm an FBI agent. I work on some rough cases. 612 00:36:11,924 --> 00:36:13,486 He must have got this out of my office. 613 00:36:13,511 --> 00:36:14,973 I should lock that file cabinet. 614 00:36:15,011 --> 00:36:17,013 Honey, you shouldn't have had to see that. 615 00:36:17,097 --> 00:36:18,181 Brian saw it, too. 616 00:36:18,264 --> 00:36:19,264 Of course. 617 00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:22,185 - We really messed up. - I messed up. 618 00:36:22,268 --> 00:36:23,436 He gets into things. 619 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,240 [NANCY] We need to keep a closer eye on him. 620 00:36:25,264 --> 00:36:27,524 - We'll find a way to explain it. - I'll talk to him, 621 00:36:27,607 --> 00:36:29,447 make sure he understands there's nothing wrong. 622 00:36:29,859 --> 00:36:32,612 - Nothing's wrong? - Honey, come here. 623 00:36:34,406 --> 00:36:36,241 - Are you all right? - Um... 624 00:36:36,324 --> 00:36:37,670 I've been meaning to tell you, 625 00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:40,102 my parents want me to get some real job experience, 626 00:36:40,161 --> 00:36:42,789 so I'm applying at the mall and... 627 00:36:42,872 --> 00:36:45,709 But you'd still be able to sit for us sometimes, right? 628 00:36:46,292 --> 00:36:48,086 I think it's going to be hard. 629 00:36:48,169 --> 00:36:50,505 [NANCY] Julie, honey... 630 00:36:51,172 --> 00:36:52,716 you've been with us for years. 631 00:36:53,341 --> 00:36:54,718 I'm sorry, Mrs. Tench. 632 00:36:54,801 --> 00:36:56,052 Don't forget your money. 633 00:36:59,180 --> 00:37:00,974 Please say goodbye to Brian for me. 634 00:37:01,933 --> 00:37:02,933 Julie... 635 00:37:04,811 --> 00:37:06,062 - [DOOR CLOSES] - [SIGHS] 636 00:37:08,690 --> 00:37:12,402 I know that file cabinet has a lock. I just have to find the key. 637 00:37:13,570 --> 00:37:14,863 Or get a new one. 638 00:37:15,405 --> 00:37:16,990 That one's 20 years old. 639 00:37:18,575 --> 00:37:20,243 Kid's kind of a Houdini, though. 640 00:37:20,660 --> 00:37:22,120 Maybe I should get a safe. 641 00:37:23,663 --> 00:37:25,123 Why is it in the house at all? 642 00:37:26,958 --> 00:37:29,002 It's work. I have to bring it home sometimes. 643 00:37:29,085 --> 00:37:31,463 That? You have to bring that home? 644 00:37:32,714 --> 00:37:33,923 What do you do with it? 645 00:37:34,674 --> 00:37:36,676 Examine it for clues. 646 00:37:38,261 --> 00:37:40,513 You don't tell me a thing about what you do. 647 00:37:41,097 --> 00:37:42,097 Now you know why. 648 00:37:42,474 --> 00:37:45,074 - You don't need to protect me. - I'm trying to protect everybody. 649 00:37:45,098 --> 00:37:47,391 No, you need to protect your son. 650 00:37:48,021 --> 00:37:50,523 What was he doing in my office in the first place? 651 00:37:51,524 --> 00:37:55,111 We can't watch him every second. He's always trying to get in there. 652 00:37:55,195 --> 00:37:56,613 Because he knows it's not allowed. 653 00:37:56,696 --> 00:37:59,616 - I should put a lock on the door. - He's trying to get closer to you! 654 00:38:00,784 --> 00:38:02,619 Sometimes I find him in our closet. 655 00:38:02,702 --> 00:38:05,538 He's putting on your ties. He's walking around in your shoes. 656 00:38:08,082 --> 00:38:10,877 I'm here on the weekends now. I'm putting in the time. 657 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,380 When you're not at the golf course, you're angling to get there. 658 00:38:15,507 --> 00:38:17,509 When you're playing with him, you check your watch. 659 00:38:17,592 --> 00:38:20,845 - Well, to be honest, he's not much fun. - He's not much fun?! 660 00:38:20,929 --> 00:38:22,972 I know how that sounds, but I've tried. 661 00:38:23,056 --> 00:38:26,267 - He's just not interested. - It takes more than turning up, Bill. 662 00:38:26,601 --> 00:38:30,104 Okay, you... you need to play with him. 663 00:38:30,188 --> 00:38:33,233 I can't have a conversation with him. I can't get a hug out of him. 664 00:38:33,316 --> 00:38:35,235 I can't even get him to look me in the eye. 665 00:38:35,318 --> 00:38:37,487 - He is not beyond hope. - Well, maybe I am. 666 00:38:38,321 --> 00:38:39,489 Want to know what I do? 667 00:38:39,572 --> 00:38:41,908 Want to see what I work on every night? Come on. 668 00:38:43,785 --> 00:38:44,994 That's the tip of the iceberg. 669 00:38:46,371 --> 00:38:48,790 A young mother with a boy Brian's age. 670 00:38:48,873 --> 00:38:50,750 Killer did the same thing to him. 671 00:38:50,834 --> 00:38:53,419 You want to see that photo? I got it here somewhere. 672 00:38:54,045 --> 00:38:55,463 This one's interesting. 673 00:38:55,547 --> 00:38:58,258 A woman who was stabbed, raped, breasts cut off. 674 00:38:58,341 --> 00:39:01,010 Turns out it was her boyfriend, his brother, and their sister. 675 00:39:01,094 --> 00:39:02,387 A little family affair. 676 00:39:03,096 --> 00:39:04,571 Here's the one I'm working on now. 677 00:39:04,596 --> 00:39:06,373 Lovely guy by the name of Jerry Brudos. 678 00:39:06,432 --> 00:39:08,560 Murdered four women not much older than Julie. 679 00:39:08,643 --> 00:39:10,436 Strung them up in his garage. 680 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,446 One of them came to his door accidentally. 681 00:39:12,471 --> 00:39:13,964 One of them had car trouble. 682 00:39:14,029 --> 00:39:15,943 One of them he grabbed from a parking garage 683 00:39:15,968 --> 00:39:18,389 she was on her way to lunch with her mom. 684 00:39:30,373 --> 00:39:31,374 I'm sorry. 685 00:39:32,208 --> 00:39:33,209 I know. 686 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,089 I'm sorry. 687 00:40:54,123 --> 00:40:55,124 [CAT MEOWS] 688 00:40:55,208 --> 00:40:57,210 [TUNA CAN RATTLES SOFTLY] 689 00:41:06,844 --> 00:41:08,429 [KNOCK ON DOOR] 690 00:41:10,723 --> 00:41:11,891 Your favorite... 691 00:41:13,977 --> 00:41:15,478 Quantico Blend. 692 00:41:18,481 --> 00:41:19,481 Thank you. 693 00:41:23,736 --> 00:41:25,863 - The mom. - Hmm? 694 00:41:25,947 --> 00:41:27,699 The mom and the shoes. 695 00:41:28,366 --> 00:41:29,742 Something happened there. 696 00:41:31,577 --> 00:41:32,578 Clearly. 697 00:41:35,123 --> 00:41:36,207 What was it? 698 00:41:37,083 --> 00:41:38,209 Her reaction? 699 00:41:42,463 --> 00:41:43,631 The force of it. 700 00:41:44,757 --> 00:41:47,719 Burning the shoes seared them into his mind as forbidden. 701 00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:51,764 Which became part of the sexual fantasy. 702 00:41:53,975 --> 00:41:56,644 Then the teacher had an entirely different reaction. 703 00:41:56,853 --> 00:41:58,643 So he's getting mixed messages 704 00:41:58,668 --> 00:42:01,173 from two adult women about his impulses. 705 00:42:04,068 --> 00:42:08,281 Brudos said that he was attracted to women's shoes before all of that. 706 00:42:09,282 --> 00:42:11,576 He took the stilettos from the dump when he was five. 707 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,954 Not everyone agrees with Freud's theories on sexuality, 708 00:42:15,038 --> 00:42:17,019 but he did hit upon how young we are 709 00:42:17,044 --> 00:42:19,024 when we start to form preferences. 710 00:42:19,083 --> 00:42:20,501 So when did that come in? 711 00:42:21,627 --> 00:42:23,796 How did it get tied to his sexuality? 712 00:42:24,255 --> 00:42:27,383 Was there a point at which someone could have... intervened? 713 00:42:27,467 --> 00:42:29,385 Well, you're asking the right questions. 714 00:42:29,886 --> 00:42:31,179 I want the right answers. 715 00:42:31,262 --> 00:42:32,305 Don't we all. 716 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,642 - I'm glad you're here. - Well... 717 00:42:51,991 --> 00:42:54,994 Hey, Bill. I've been thinking about another angle with Brudos. 718 00:42:55,078 --> 00:42:57,663 Remember what Wendy said about deflecting responsibility? 719 00:42:57,747 --> 00:42:58,748 Save it. 720 00:43:07,340 --> 00:43:08,700 [MAN] Fairfield Police Department. 721 00:43:08,724 --> 00:43:12,232 May I speak with Detective McGraw? This is Bill Tench with the FBI. 722 00:43:12,257 --> 00:43:13,523 He's out right now. Can I take a message? 723 00:43:13,548 --> 00:43:14,614 Yes. 724 00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:17,433 Ask him to look at the photos from the Ada Jeffries case. 725 00:43:17,517 --> 00:43:19,037 - Ada Jeffries? - [TENCH] That's right. 726 00:43:19,102 --> 00:43:21,729 Tell him to look at the knots that were used to tie her up. 727 00:43:21,813 --> 00:43:24,982 They're nautical and Fairfield is landlocked. 728 00:43:25,525 --> 00:43:27,276 - Okay, I'll let him know. - Thank you. 729 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,571 - You're back on Fairfield? - [TENCH] We said we'd take a look. 730 00:43:30,596 --> 00:43:31,709 Are you sure there's still something... 731 00:43:31,734 --> 00:43:33,666 Holden, leave me alone. 732 00:43:35,409 --> 00:43:37,787 Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed. 733 00:43:40,498 --> 00:43:41,498 [CARR] Bill. 734 00:43:43,209 --> 00:43:46,420 What I was saying yesterday about remaining objective, 735 00:43:46,504 --> 00:43:48,214 you were right, it's bullshit. 736 00:43:48,798 --> 00:43:49,966 It's very hard. 737 00:43:50,591 --> 00:43:51,926 I've been around crazy. 738 00:43:52,009 --> 00:43:53,511 I was in the army. 739 00:43:53,594 --> 00:43:55,263 Road School was a cakewalk. 740 00:43:55,346 --> 00:43:57,019 I didn't mind talking about this stuff. 741 00:43:57,044 --> 00:43:59,926 But... what the fuck did I even know? 742 00:44:00,031 --> 00:44:02,004 [CARR] These people are extremely damaged, 743 00:44:02,029 --> 00:44:04,044 and they know how to cause damage. 744 00:44:04,772 --> 00:44:06,524 I'm running on fumes. 745 00:44:06,607 --> 00:44:07,733 Can you take a break? 746 00:44:07,817 --> 00:44:09,694 - No. - [CARR] Talk to someone? 747 00:44:10,570 --> 00:44:12,738 - I'm talking to you. - No, a professional. 748 00:44:12,822 --> 00:44:14,407 You are professional. 749 00:44:14,490 --> 00:44:16,250 I'm your coworker. I can't be your therapist. 750 00:44:16,325 --> 00:44:19,579 Therapist? It's not like that. 751 00:44:20,371 --> 00:44:22,915 Times have changed. You don't have to be the good soldier. 752 00:44:25,877 --> 00:44:27,420 He's fucking immune. 753 00:44:28,921 --> 00:44:30,423 How do I tap into that? 754 00:44:32,383 --> 00:44:35,344 - [ROCK MUSIC PLAYING LOUDLY] - [BUZZER SOUNDS] 755 00:44:36,762 --> 00:44:39,265 ♪ Hot child in the city ♪ 756 00:44:41,142 --> 00:44:43,477 ♪ Running wild, looking pretty ♪ 757 00:44:45,479 --> 00:44:47,690 ♪ Hot child in the city ♪ 758 00:44:48,482 --> 00:44:50,151 [BUZZER SOUNDS] 759 00:44:51,319 --> 00:44:52,862 - ♪ So young ♪ - [TURNS MUSIC DOWN] 760 00:44:52,945 --> 00:44:56,407 ♪ To be loose and on her own ♪ 761 00:45:00,286 --> 00:45:03,039 - Hello, there. - Oh, my God. You look fantastic. 762 00:45:03,122 --> 00:45:04,165 So do you. 763 00:45:05,333 --> 00:45:08,294 - [HOLDEN GRUNTS] - I am so happy to be done with exams. 764 00:45:09,879 --> 00:45:11,672 Mm... I made dinner. 765 00:45:12,506 --> 00:45:16,636 - Oh. - [DEBBIE LAUGHS] 766 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,930 [SIGHS] That was astounding. 767 00:45:19,013 --> 00:45:20,431 Well, don't sound so surprised. 768 00:45:20,514 --> 00:45:23,643 - You've been holding out on me. - Isn't that what nice girls do? 769 00:45:23,726 --> 00:45:25,353 It worked. Marry me. 770 00:45:25,436 --> 00:45:27,104 So I can cook for you? No. 771 00:45:29,482 --> 00:45:31,067 To your culinary skills. 772 00:45:33,986 --> 00:45:36,155 - To your fellatio skills. - Just stop. 773 00:45:36,238 --> 00:45:37,406 To changing my life. 774 00:45:37,490 --> 00:45:38,908 To opening my mind. 775 00:45:40,576 --> 00:45:42,578 Inspiring me to go back to school. 776 00:45:42,662 --> 00:45:43,996 Wasn't this toast about me? 777 00:45:47,166 --> 00:45:49,085 I want you to know that I see you. 778 00:45:49,669 --> 00:45:51,796 How dedicated you are, how disciplined. 779 00:45:53,714 --> 00:45:54,714 Hey. 780 00:45:55,216 --> 00:45:58,469 You have the courage to follow your curiosity. 781 00:45:58,552 --> 00:46:00,054 Okay, enough. 782 00:46:00,137 --> 00:46:02,282 And you put up with my tendency to go on. 783 00:46:02,307 --> 00:46:03,617 That, I do. 784 00:46:07,561 --> 00:46:09,772 I am truly delighted to be in your life. 785 00:46:09,855 --> 00:46:12,525 [BOBBY CALDWELL'S "WHAT YOU WON'T DO FOR LOVE" PLAYING] 786 00:46:12,608 --> 00:46:14,318 ♪ What you won't do ♪ 787 00:46:15,528 --> 00:46:17,238 ♪ Do for love ♪ 788 00:46:18,489 --> 00:46:20,574 ♪ You've tried everything ♪ 789 00:46:20,658 --> 00:46:21,658 Come on. 790 00:46:26,038 --> 00:46:27,038 Come on. 791 00:46:29,125 --> 00:46:31,845 - ["TWO OUT OF THREE AIN'T BAD" PLAYING] - ♪ I want you, I want you ♪ 792 00:46:31,869 --> 00:46:34,755 ♪ I need you, I need you ♪ 793 00:46:34,839 --> 00:46:40,678 ♪ But there ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you ♪ 794 00:46:40,761 --> 00:46:42,096 Hold that thought. 795 00:46:44,098 --> 00:46:46,350 ♪ Don't be sad ♪ 796 00:46:46,434 --> 00:46:51,439 ♪ 'Cause two out of three ain't bad ♪ 797 00:46:52,732 --> 00:46:57,528 ♪ Now don't be sad ♪ 798 00:46:58,821 --> 00:47:03,367 ♪ 'Cause two out of three ain't bad ♪ 799 00:48:24,281 --> 00:48:25,324 What's wrong? 800 00:48:26,909 --> 00:48:27,993 You don't like it? 801 00:48:31,622 --> 00:48:32,832 No, I love it. 802 00:49:21,839 --> 00:49:22,923 Are you okay? 803 00:49:28,053 --> 00:49:29,096 It's weird. 804 00:49:32,975 --> 00:49:34,018 This? 805 00:49:35,311 --> 00:49:37,188 It's just... not you. 806 00:49:41,692 --> 00:49:44,028 Yeah, Holden. That's the point. 807 00:49:49,867 --> 00:49:50,993 [DOOR SLAMS] 808 00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,187 synced & corrected by PopcornAWH www.addic7ed.com 809 00:49:55,289 --> 00:49:57,249 [NO MERCY'S "KISS YOU ALL OVER" PLAYING] 810 00:49:57,833 --> 00:50:00,836 ♪ I wanna kiss you all over ♪ 811 00:50:02,922 --> 00:50:06,425 ♪ Till the night closes in ♪ 812 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,096 ♪ Till the night closes in ♪ 813 00:50:17,186 --> 00:50:20,940 ♪ Till the night closes in ♪ 814 00:50:26,403 --> 00:50:29,573 ♪ Till the night closes in ♪ 815 00:50:35,663 --> 00:50:38,916 ♪ Till the night closes in ♪