1 00:00:16,605 --> 00:00:17,648 May I help you? 2 00:00:18,357 --> 00:00:20,150 Yes. Thank you. 3 00:00:20,234 --> 00:00:22,236 I need some replacement electrical tape. 4 00:00:22,569 --> 00:00:25,280 Okay. You bring me the empty and I'll get you a new roll. 5 00:00:25,364 --> 00:00:26,440 Empty what? 6 00:00:27,199 --> 00:00:30,035 The cardboard core that's left when you run out of tape. 7 00:00:31,078 --> 00:00:32,412 What? Why? 8 00:00:33,205 --> 00:00:34,623 That's the way we do it. 9 00:00:35,457 --> 00:00:38,377 I can't give you a new one until we get the old. 10 00:00:38,460 --> 00:00:39,460 Are you kidding me? 11 00:00:41,296 --> 00:00:42,296 No. 12 00:00:44,466 --> 00:00:46,093 Whatever, Dennis. 13 00:02:35,744 --> 00:02:38,664 This is your captain speaking. New York City to the Bay Area... 14 00:02:38,747 --> 00:02:41,557 Just, hey, do me a favor. Don't mention this to me ever again. 15 00:02:41,582 --> 00:02:42,584 I'm going to. 16 00:02:42,609 --> 00:02:44,610 It's the insanest idea I've ever heard. 17 00:02:44,669 --> 00:02:46,630 - I'm going to, Bill. - We have a job to do. 18 00:02:46,713 --> 00:02:49,800 - We are here to teach. - Chino, California Medical, 19 00:02:49,883 --> 00:02:52,928 California Men's Colony, Norco, Soledad, San Quentin... 20 00:02:53,011 --> 00:02:56,181 If you'd said to me, "I want to become a Beach Boy, take up surfing", 21 00:02:56,264 --> 00:02:58,433 - "sit around smoking the vibes." - Folsom. 22 00:02:58,517 --> 00:03:00,227 Or, "I want to make it in the movies." 23 00:03:00,310 --> 00:03:02,729 Gonna get me a walk-up in West Hollywood and a Pekingese." 24 00:03:02,813 --> 00:03:05,440 Manson is 30 miles away in Vacaville. 25 00:03:05,524 --> 00:03:07,109 A hop, skip, and a jump. 26 00:03:07,484 --> 00:03:09,820 - You really wanna meet Charlie Manson? - Why not? 27 00:03:09,903 --> 00:03:11,783 - Sir. - Swing by and say hi. 28 00:03:11,807 --> 00:03:12,824 Yeah. 29 00:03:13,615 --> 00:03:14,633 Thank you. 30 00:03:16,410 --> 00:03:18,954 Nobody wants to hear about that crazy motherfucker. 31 00:03:19,037 --> 00:03:20,122 You know this. 32 00:03:20,205 --> 00:03:23,125 Welcome to San Francisco. Please remain seated... 33 00:03:23,208 --> 00:03:26,878 Besides, when are you gonna find time for these fireside chats, Holden? 34 00:03:29,297 --> 00:03:30,340 I'll figure it out. 35 00:03:34,219 --> 00:03:36,012 Nobody can talk to Manson. 36 00:03:36,096 --> 00:03:38,807 Tom Snyder's been trying to interview him for years. 37 00:03:38,890 --> 00:03:41,143 We're the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 38 00:03:41,226 --> 00:03:43,437 What if his civil rights are being violated? 39 00:03:43,895 --> 00:03:45,439 Please just get in the car. 40 00:04:06,835 --> 00:04:10,255 In California every year, 35 percent of murders go unsolved. 41 00:04:10,964 --> 00:04:13,675 That's more unsolved murders than in any other state. 42 00:04:13,759 --> 00:04:15,510 It's partly due to geography. 43 00:04:15,594 --> 00:04:17,721 In the woods, in the mountains, 44 00:04:17,804 --> 00:04:19,924 - ravines, hiking trails... - You can't get to Manson, 45 00:04:19,948 --> 00:04:22,350 even if you're a fed. 46 00:04:22,434 --> 00:04:24,853 CMF treats him like a fucking unicorn. 47 00:04:24,936 --> 00:04:28,273 No one needs to think about psychology more than the people in Santa Cruz. 48 00:04:29,095 --> 00:04:30,441 In a homicide situation... 49 00:04:30,466 --> 00:04:32,897 If you go to Vacaville, meet Ed Kemper. 50 00:04:33,069 --> 00:04:35,419 What happened that triggered him? 51 00:04:35,492 --> 00:04:36,972 Give me that name again. 52 00:04:37,032 --> 00:04:40,535 Kemper. Ed Kemper. They call him the "Coed Killer." 53 00:04:40,619 --> 00:04:43,997 What about when even the killer doesn't know why he behaved as he did? 54 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,833 You can't miss the guy. He's like six foot nine, 285 pounds. 55 00:04:46,917 --> 00:04:48,502 - Whoa. King-size. - Super king. 56 00:04:48,585 --> 00:04:52,297 - Violent murder used to be... - Killed a bunch of coeds in Santa Cruz. 57 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:54,208 Six teenage girls, chops their heads off, 58 00:04:54,233 --> 00:04:55,833 has sexual intercourse with the corpses. 59 00:04:55,857 --> 00:04:57,844 - Oh... - Kills his mom with a claw hammer, 60 00:04:57,928 --> 00:04:59,805 has sexual intercourse with her head. 61 00:04:59,888 --> 00:05:01,932 - Bullshit. - In her mouth. 62 00:05:02,307 --> 00:05:03,475 - No. - Yeah. 63 00:05:03,558 --> 00:05:06,645 When strangers murder strangers for no apparent reason... 64 00:05:06,728 --> 00:05:09,648 He was in a mental institution right up until then too. 65 00:05:09,731 --> 00:05:12,818 He's a total whack job. He was murdering his grandparents at the age of 15, 66 00:05:12,901 --> 00:05:16,446 but then he manages to convince everyone that he's completely rehabilitated. 67 00:05:16,449 --> 00:05:17,474 Oh, my God. 68 00:05:17,489 --> 00:05:20,617 In many of these crimes, the motives are not just obscure... 69 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:23,703 Jim Conor knew him real well. I'll introduce you. 70 00:05:23,787 --> 00:05:25,121 - Really? - Yeah. 71 00:05:25,205 --> 00:05:27,833 - ...borderline unfathomable. - Thank you. 72 00:05:28,792 --> 00:05:31,378 Used to call him Big Ed. Everybody here knew him. 73 00:05:31,962 --> 00:05:35,715 - Was he an informant? - No, but he was smart. He was funny. 74 00:05:36,337 --> 00:05:38,413 He used to watch all the cop shows on TV. 75 00:05:38,484 --> 00:05:40,286 Crazy about Wambaugh and Police Story. 76 00:05:40,345 --> 00:05:42,764 He wanted to be CHP, but it didn't work out. 77 00:05:42,847 --> 00:05:45,684 He would joke that they could conceal his psychiatric record 78 00:05:45,767 --> 00:05:46,935 but not his fat ass. 79 00:05:47,602 --> 00:05:49,688 Stupid shit like that. 80 00:05:50,355 --> 00:05:52,649 Guys like him always want to be in uniform. 81 00:05:52,732 --> 00:05:55,151 Losers. Losers are drawn to authority. 82 00:05:55,235 --> 00:05:57,571 Nobody wants to admit it, but losers are useful. 83 00:05:57,654 --> 00:05:59,531 - Why? - They're nosy. 84 00:05:59,670 --> 00:06:01,529 They know what everybody else is up to. 85 00:06:01,554 --> 00:06:03,309 And they're resentful, a lot of 'em. 86 00:06:03,368 --> 00:06:05,704 - They always got a raw deal. - Ed was a busybody. 87 00:06:06,288 --> 00:06:08,208 And this was before you knew about the killings? 88 00:06:08,290 --> 00:06:11,042 Oh, we knew about 'em, just hadn't connected them with him. 89 00:06:11,126 --> 00:06:14,170 - He kept asking about them, though. - And you didn't suspect him? 90 00:06:16,881 --> 00:06:17,882 What? 91 00:06:17,966 --> 00:06:20,051 "What?" You liked the guy. 92 00:06:21,469 --> 00:06:24,764 - Let's say he was a friendly nuisance. - Oh, come on. 93 00:06:24,848 --> 00:06:27,601 - He was hard not to like. - So you were the arresting officer? 94 00:06:27,684 --> 00:06:30,687 In the end, he lit out to Pueblo, Colorado, 95 00:06:30,770 --> 00:06:32,939 expecting there to be some kind of manhunt. 96 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:34,694 When nobody came, 97 00:06:34,719 --> 00:06:37,384 he got sick of waiting and decided to turn himself in. 98 00:06:38,028 --> 00:06:40,488 Called from a pay phone. Confessed! 99 00:06:41,197 --> 00:06:44,284 We thought he was bullshitting. I drove him all the way back. 100 00:06:44,367 --> 00:06:48,288 He wouldn't stop yakking. Going into forensic detail. 101 00:06:48,371 --> 00:06:49,873 I thought I hit the jackpot. 102 00:06:49,956 --> 00:06:53,293 After a few hours, I'm like, "Oh, God, please. Enough!" 103 00:06:53,376 --> 00:06:55,086 You think Kemper would talk to us? 104 00:06:55,879 --> 00:06:57,422 Try stopping him. 105 00:06:57,505 --> 00:06:58,673 Who's "us," kemosabe? 106 00:07:03,053 --> 00:07:05,180 David Berkowitz, 24. 107 00:07:05,263 --> 00:07:08,850 Spent his days sorting letters at the post office so he could... 108 00:07:08,934 --> 00:07:09,968 What? 109 00:07:10,352 --> 00:07:12,020 Really, what are you expecting to learn? 110 00:07:12,604 --> 00:07:14,981 A killer who can't stop talking? It's a gift. 111 00:07:15,065 --> 00:07:16,124 A gift, huh? 112 00:07:16,691 --> 00:07:18,902 He made a severed head perform fellatio on him. 113 00:07:19,611 --> 00:07:22,364 His third victim was a 15-year-old child, Holden. 114 00:07:24,491 --> 00:07:25,492 You don't want to talk? 115 00:07:25,575 --> 00:07:28,536 So, basically, you just got me out here to carry your slide projector? 116 00:07:28,620 --> 00:07:31,706 To help with the workload, yeah. The work we're sanctioned to do. 117 00:07:31,790 --> 00:07:34,793 Kemper doesn't interest you or is beneath you somehow? 118 00:07:34,876 --> 00:07:35,961 A little of both. 119 00:07:36,586 --> 00:07:39,089 - This is the man... - Think the tie's too much? 120 00:07:39,839 --> 00:07:40,924 What about the suit? 121 00:07:41,007 --> 00:07:43,635 Anybody finds out you're a fed, there'll be a riot. 122 00:07:43,802 --> 00:07:46,137 Shepard finds out you've been interviewing the Coed Killer 123 00:07:46,221 --> 00:07:47,847 as a side project, he'll flip his shit. 124 00:07:47,931 --> 00:07:50,475 It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. 125 00:07:50,558 --> 00:07:52,811 Okay. 126 00:07:54,145 --> 00:07:57,691 If you're gonna go in, you need to go in stone goddamn cold, 127 00:07:57,774 --> 00:08:00,619 take him by surprise, get the fuck out as quick as possible. 128 00:08:00,644 --> 00:08:01,777 Good advice. 129 00:08:01,802 --> 00:08:03,606 Straight in there, don't phone, 130 00:08:03,631 --> 00:08:05,621 don't give them a chance to ask around. 131 00:08:05,657 --> 00:08:06,741 I'm a buddy of Jim Conor's. 132 00:08:07,325 --> 00:08:10,662 "Jim Conor reached out," you bet. "He sends his regards." 133 00:08:10,745 --> 00:08:12,914 "I stopped by the Jury Room for a drink." 134 00:08:12,998 --> 00:08:15,583 "The guys all say..." Blah, blah, blah. 135 00:08:15,667 --> 00:08:18,294 - "Can I call you Big Ed?" - I wouldn't mention the killings. 136 00:08:18,378 --> 00:08:20,547 You're not there because he's a necrophile degenerate. 137 00:08:20,630 --> 00:08:22,966 You're there because he's... fascinating. 138 00:08:23,049 --> 00:08:24,759 How do I not mention the killings? 139 00:08:25,385 --> 00:08:26,428 Just take it slow. 140 00:08:28,346 --> 00:08:30,807 - What are you doing? - Just in case. 141 00:08:30,890 --> 00:08:32,851 They're not gonna let you in with a sidearm. 142 00:08:32,934 --> 00:08:35,770 The guy is six foot nine, weighs 300 pounds. 143 00:08:35,854 --> 00:08:37,939 - That's right. - So what's he gonna do? 144 00:08:38,023 --> 00:08:40,734 He's gonna take the fucking thing away, kill you with it, 145 00:08:40,817 --> 00:08:42,902 and then have sex with your face. 146 00:08:58,334 --> 00:08:59,377 Hold it, guys. 147 00:09:04,569 --> 00:09:05,584 You're clear. 148 00:09:05,609 --> 00:09:07,021 I don't want to spoil your fun. 149 00:09:07,052 --> 00:09:08,845 I'm good. Nine is fine. 150 00:09:08,928 --> 00:09:10,847 You could come. Take notes. 151 00:09:10,930 --> 00:09:13,183 You take notes, I'll help you write 'em up. 152 00:09:13,266 --> 00:09:14,809 You're really gonna go golfing 153 00:09:14,893 --> 00:09:17,937 while I glean profound insights from the Coed Killer? 154 00:09:18,021 --> 00:09:19,981 - It's my day off. - You're gonna be sorry. 155 00:09:20,065 --> 00:09:21,483 No. You're gonna be sorry, Holden, 156 00:09:21,534 --> 00:09:22,814 when he decides you're using him 157 00:09:22,838 --> 00:09:24,551 and there's nothing in it for good old Ed. 158 00:09:24,611 --> 00:09:25,987 - I think there is. - What? 159 00:09:26,529 --> 00:09:29,949 He's going to be part of something instead of rotting inside a cell. 160 00:09:30,033 --> 00:09:32,368 Part of what? We're not even here. 161 00:09:35,246 --> 00:09:36,281 All right. 162 00:09:42,712 --> 00:09:45,048 I must respectfully ask for your badge and firearm. 163 00:09:48,218 --> 00:09:49,469 Yes, sir. 164 00:09:57,185 --> 00:09:59,562 In addition, I have some paperwork for you to sign. 165 00:09:59,604 --> 00:10:02,126 A disclaimer that states in the event of your death, 166 00:10:02,151 --> 00:10:03,483 or if you're taken hostage, 167 00:10:03,606 --> 00:10:05,206 attacked, assaulted, or otherwise abused 168 00:10:05,231 --> 00:10:06,551 within the correctional facility, 169 00:10:06,575 --> 00:10:09,670 the United States government forswears any and all liability. 170 00:10:10,907 --> 00:10:13,701 Oh. Okay. 171 00:10:42,313 --> 00:10:43,648 Kiss my ass! 172 00:10:54,409 --> 00:10:56,494 Hey, boy, bring that shit over here! 173 00:10:56,578 --> 00:10:57,579 Bitch! 174 00:11:40,496 --> 00:11:42,540 Can we unlock the... 175 00:11:42,624 --> 00:11:44,500 No, those stay on. They're regulation. 176 00:11:45,668 --> 00:11:48,004 I think that's gonna be a little awkward. 177 00:11:49,964 --> 00:11:51,132 You're FBI. 178 00:11:58,806 --> 00:12:01,392 - Okay. You're all set. - Thanks, Jim. 179 00:12:01,476 --> 00:12:03,228 - I'll see ya later. - Later. 180 00:12:11,486 --> 00:12:12,570 Holden, right? 181 00:12:15,406 --> 00:12:17,283 - Edward. - Edmund. 182 00:12:17,367 --> 00:12:19,100 Oh, I'm sorry. I assumed that it was... 183 00:12:19,125 --> 00:12:20,127 Are you tired? 184 00:12:20,173 --> 00:12:21,287 How could you tell? 185 00:12:21,371 --> 00:12:23,831 It's a beautiful drive, but it's long. 186 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:28,336 Edmund was my mom's idea, so you can call me Ed. 187 00:12:31,589 --> 00:12:32,632 Sure thing. 188 00:12:34,842 --> 00:12:36,344 So how can I help? 189 00:12:37,929 --> 00:12:39,764 Okay. Um... 190 00:12:41,391 --> 00:12:42,641 I'm an instructor, 191 00:12:42,666 --> 00:12:45,210 working out of the Behavioral Science Unit at Quantico, 192 00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:46,437 and I had this idea... 193 00:12:46,521 --> 00:12:47,981 Have you had breakfast? 194 00:12:48,064 --> 00:12:50,483 Can I get you something? You want a sandwich? 195 00:12:51,067 --> 00:12:53,861 - No, I'm okay. - What kind of sandwich you like? 196 00:12:55,154 --> 00:12:59,200 - Um... I'm good. - You want an egg salad sandwich? 197 00:12:59,701 --> 00:13:03,121 - I'm fine. Really. - I'll get us an egg salad sandwich. 198 00:13:03,204 --> 00:13:05,915 I can get almost anything you want from the canteen. 199 00:13:11,212 --> 00:13:12,213 Okay. 200 00:13:13,756 --> 00:13:16,384 - Do you have tuna? - Oh, the egg salad's better. 201 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,095 - Hey, Jim? - Yeah, Ed? 202 00:13:19,171 --> 00:13:20,724 Have you seen Mitch this morning? 203 00:13:20,749 --> 00:13:22,311 You think you can find him for me? 204 00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:28,521 - Good, huh? - Mmm! 205 00:13:29,063 --> 00:13:30,398 These guys are great. 206 00:13:30,481 --> 00:13:33,776 I've been here five years. We just clicked right off the bat. 207 00:13:35,111 --> 00:13:36,320 You like the guards? 208 00:13:37,488 --> 00:13:39,157 Well, they like me. I'm polite. 209 00:13:39,782 --> 00:13:44,871 You know, I heard that you used to drink at the Jury Room. 210 00:13:45,413 --> 00:13:47,165 You mean in Santa Cruz? 211 00:13:47,665 --> 00:13:49,917 Yeah, those are good guys. 212 00:13:50,835 --> 00:13:53,588 I applied to California Highway Patrol. 213 00:13:53,671 --> 00:13:58,176 My mom spoke to the cops to get my psychiatric record expunged. 214 00:13:58,259 --> 00:14:02,430 Turns out my record didn't bother them at all, I was just too tall. 215 00:14:02,513 --> 00:14:06,726 Too tall? I've heard of being too short, but... 216 00:14:08,936 --> 00:14:09,937 What? 217 00:14:10,021 --> 00:14:11,898 Nothing. It just seems... 218 00:14:11,981 --> 00:14:13,566 You think they lied to me? 219 00:14:15,651 --> 00:14:16,686 No. 220 00:14:17,945 --> 00:14:21,115 Well, cops like me because they can talk to me... 221 00:14:22,033 --> 00:14:24,952 more than they can talk to their own wives, some of them. 222 00:14:25,036 --> 00:14:26,579 Really? What do you talk about? 223 00:14:27,121 --> 00:14:28,581 You know, books, movies. 224 00:14:28,664 --> 00:14:31,584 I watch all the cop shows on TV. 225 00:14:31,667 --> 00:14:32,794 Do you know, uh... 226 00:14:34,212 --> 00:14:37,131 Joseph Wambaugh, Police Story? You ever watch that? 227 00:14:37,215 --> 00:14:38,466 - Huge fan. - Oh. 228 00:14:38,549 --> 00:14:41,552 I got a lot of my insights right there. 229 00:14:41,636 --> 00:14:42,712 Really? 230 00:14:43,888 --> 00:14:45,181 What kind of insights? 231 00:14:45,264 --> 00:14:47,141 Well, so, for example, with cops, 232 00:14:47,225 --> 00:14:49,811 I would not allow myself to walk into a trap 233 00:14:49,894 --> 00:14:53,689 because I knew exactly how their minds worked from watching Wambaugh. 234 00:14:53,773 --> 00:14:55,525 What kind of trap are you talking about? 235 00:14:55,608 --> 00:14:57,985 The classic is talking too much about the crimes. 236 00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:59,112 Over-interest. 237 00:14:59,654 --> 00:15:01,489 You have to remain casual. 238 00:15:02,073 --> 00:15:04,575 They tried everything to trick me. I'm too savvy. 239 00:15:04,659 --> 00:15:06,619 I don't fucking talk, period. 240 00:15:08,746 --> 00:15:10,540 Really? That's interesting. 241 00:15:10,623 --> 00:15:11,657 So... 242 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,544 you had this idea? 243 00:15:14,627 --> 00:15:15,753 Yes. Uh, yes. 244 00:15:18,047 --> 00:15:19,173 It's kind of, uh... 245 00:15:22,510 --> 00:15:25,012 Well, it's more of a research thing. 246 00:15:25,096 --> 00:15:26,097 Research. 247 00:15:26,764 --> 00:15:28,349 Just a series of interviews, 248 00:15:28,891 --> 00:15:30,101 chatting with... 249 00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:34,439 individuals not unlike yourself. 250 00:15:35,606 --> 00:15:37,066 We're just talking? 251 00:15:38,234 --> 00:15:40,945 I don't get to go someplace, do a bunch of tests? 252 00:15:41,028 --> 00:15:43,239 No. Yeah, no tests. Just right here. 253 00:15:43,781 --> 00:15:44,815 Why? 254 00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:47,493 Well, because I believe it could be useful. 255 00:15:48,953 --> 00:15:50,371 Talking about what? 256 00:15:50,913 --> 00:15:52,206 Well, I don't know. 257 00:15:54,292 --> 00:15:55,309 Your... 258 00:15:56,294 --> 00:15:58,379 behavior, I guess. 259 00:16:00,381 --> 00:16:01,632 If you want to, that is. 260 00:16:01,716 --> 00:16:05,386 We don't have to talk about anything at all if you don't want to. 261 00:16:06,846 --> 00:16:08,723 Why are you so tense? 262 00:16:08,806 --> 00:16:09,824 Hm? 263 00:16:10,224 --> 00:16:11,976 You're tense, right now. 264 00:16:12,602 --> 00:16:14,061 No, I'm not tense. 265 00:16:16,397 --> 00:16:19,108 Well, I'll be honest, I don't get many visitors. 266 00:16:19,192 --> 00:16:22,487 When I do, you think they want to talk about this shit? 267 00:16:23,029 --> 00:16:26,115 Fuck no. It's like if you worked at a slaughterhouse with livestock, 268 00:16:26,199 --> 00:16:28,034 real conversation stopper. 269 00:16:28,418 --> 00:16:29,452 Did you? 270 00:16:29,535 --> 00:16:31,329 No, I'm just saying... 271 00:16:32,079 --> 00:16:34,790 People who hunt other people for a vocation, 272 00:16:34,874 --> 00:16:37,752 all we want to talk about is what it's like. 273 00:16:38,252 --> 00:16:41,255 The shit that went down. The entire fucked-upness of it. 274 00:16:42,298 --> 00:16:43,466 Right, sure. 275 00:16:44,467 --> 00:16:47,094 It's not easy. Butchering people is hard work. 276 00:16:47,803 --> 00:16:51,224 Physically and mentally. I don't think people realize. 277 00:16:51,307 --> 00:16:52,600 You need to vent. 278 00:16:54,727 --> 00:16:56,354 What are you writing down? 279 00:16:56,437 --> 00:17:00,733 Oh, I just think it's an interesting choice of words, "vocation." 280 00:17:02,276 --> 00:17:03,861 Well, what would you call it? 281 00:17:04,987 --> 00:17:07,782 A hobby? I'd say it's more than that. 282 00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:12,620 Look at the consequences. The stakes are very high. 283 00:17:16,582 --> 00:17:19,043 Is this helping? Are you getting what you came for? 284 00:17:19,126 --> 00:17:20,545 - I think. - Good. 285 00:17:20,628 --> 00:17:22,547 Can I... Could I just ask you something? 286 00:17:24,048 --> 00:17:26,050 Do you believe that prison can help you? 287 00:17:26,634 --> 00:17:27,635 Are you kidding? 288 00:17:28,177 --> 00:17:30,638 You think you shouldn't be in prison? 289 00:17:30,721 --> 00:17:32,595 I think it's shutting the barn door 290 00:17:32,620 --> 00:17:34,708 after the horse has bolted, somewhat. 291 00:17:35,184 --> 00:17:37,812 What do you think the state should do with you instead? 292 00:17:37,895 --> 00:17:41,399 Well, Holden, a lobotomy's not out of the question. 293 00:17:41,482 --> 00:17:42,692 Lobotomy? 294 00:17:42,775 --> 00:17:44,235 Like Frances Farmer. 295 00:17:44,735 --> 00:17:47,280 - You remember Frances Farmer? - No. 296 00:17:47,363 --> 00:17:49,782 I loved Frances Farmer. She was an actress. 297 00:17:50,199 --> 00:17:52,034 They lobotomized her in the '50s. 298 00:17:52,118 --> 00:17:54,404 She was very smart and intense... 299 00:17:54,429 --> 00:17:57,798 very misunderstood. She was a lot like me. 300 00:17:57,832 --> 00:18:00,334 You don't think you could benefit from psychiatry? 301 00:18:00,626 --> 00:18:03,629 I already did all that in the institution. 302 00:18:05,339 --> 00:18:06,507 It didn't take. 303 00:18:07,925 --> 00:18:11,012 For me, I think surgery might give me the best chance. 304 00:18:11,095 --> 00:18:14,473 And if surgery doesn't... take, 305 00:18:14,932 --> 00:18:16,578 in this modern society, 306 00:18:16,603 --> 00:18:19,838 what do we do with the Ed Kempers of the world? 307 00:18:20,313 --> 00:18:22,106 Well, isn't that your department? 308 00:18:25,401 --> 00:18:26,736 From your perspective. 309 00:18:32,325 --> 00:18:33,701 Death by torture? 310 00:18:53,012 --> 00:18:55,681 So what are you not telling me? 311 00:18:56,265 --> 00:18:58,684 Why do you keep looking at me like that? 312 00:18:58,768 --> 00:19:00,936 - Like what? - Funny. 313 00:19:01,020 --> 00:19:03,981 You keep looking at me like I'm a specimen. 314 00:19:05,733 --> 00:19:07,318 Well, to be honest... 315 00:19:09,070 --> 00:19:11,322 It's just you seem like a nice, ordinary... 316 00:19:12,615 --> 00:19:16,160 It's difficult for me to square you with what you're in prison for. 317 00:19:17,453 --> 00:19:18,471 Oh. 318 00:19:19,246 --> 00:19:20,289 Well, sure. 319 00:19:23,084 --> 00:19:26,337 I was a regular guy most of my life, 320 00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:28,756 with a nice home, nice suburb. 321 00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:30,841 I had pets, I went to a good school. 322 00:19:30,925 --> 00:19:34,970 I was a thoughtful, educated, well brought up young person. 323 00:19:35,054 --> 00:19:36,806 There's no question about it. 324 00:19:37,682 --> 00:19:38,716 But... 325 00:19:40,184 --> 00:19:41,686 at the same time... 326 00:19:42,561 --> 00:19:46,732 I was living a vile, depraved, entirely parallel other life 327 00:19:46,816 --> 00:19:50,986 filled with debased violence and mayhem, and fear, and death. 328 00:19:51,070 --> 00:19:52,129 Well... 329 00:19:52,822 --> 00:19:57,618 it certainly seems to me like you had your own unusual... 330 00:19:58,994 --> 00:20:01,038 An unusual MO. Oh, sure. 331 00:20:01,122 --> 00:20:03,582 Well, I was gonna say... 332 00:20:04,250 --> 00:20:05,292 signature. 333 00:20:06,001 --> 00:20:07,628 Anoeuvre, if you will. 334 00:20:08,254 --> 00:20:09,755 You could study it. 335 00:20:11,924 --> 00:20:14,135 You can spelloeuvre, can't you, Holden? 336 00:20:16,554 --> 00:20:18,764 You know, there's a lot more like me. 337 00:20:21,225 --> 00:20:22,268 Do you think so? 338 00:20:23,185 --> 00:20:24,895 People that kill in sequence like you did? 339 00:20:24,979 --> 00:20:26,981 - Sequence? - One right after another. 340 00:20:27,523 --> 00:20:28,607 At regular intervals. 341 00:20:28,691 --> 00:20:30,234 I've just been calling them... 342 00:20:31,193 --> 00:20:32,820 "sequence killers"... 343 00:20:33,654 --> 00:20:34,655 if you will. 344 00:20:35,114 --> 00:20:37,700 - How many would you say? - Well... 345 00:20:39,785 --> 00:20:41,412 it would be a guess, 346 00:20:41,495 --> 00:20:43,956 but I'd say right now... 347 00:20:46,167 --> 00:20:48,878 North America, more than 35. 348 00:20:48,961 --> 00:20:50,004 Thirty-five? 349 00:20:50,087 --> 00:20:51,573 But you're never gonna find them, 350 00:20:51,598 --> 00:20:53,909 if they don't want you to. Not even close. 351 00:20:55,468 --> 00:20:56,802 That can't be right. 352 00:20:56,886 --> 00:21:00,097 Well, Holden, I'm not an expert. I'm not an authority. 353 00:21:00,681 --> 00:21:03,809 I'm just an extremely accomplished murderer 354 00:21:03,893 --> 00:21:07,646 who spent my adult life successfully evading capture... 355 00:21:08,689 --> 00:21:12,276 until I gave myself up because I despaired of ever being caught. 356 00:21:14,195 --> 00:21:15,780 So take it or leave it. 357 00:21:17,239 --> 00:21:18,491 What do you want from me? 358 00:21:21,744 --> 00:21:23,037 I have no idea. 359 00:21:23,829 --> 00:21:27,249 Hisoeuvre? What the fuck? He's Stanley Kubrick? 360 00:21:27,333 --> 00:21:29,668 He was extremely talkative. 361 00:21:29,752 --> 00:21:32,963 He likes talking to cops. He's lonely. He could do it all day. 362 00:21:33,047 --> 00:21:35,549 He's not some frenzied thrill killer, Bill. 363 00:21:36,383 --> 00:21:37,927 I think we need to face that. 364 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:41,680 He chopped off women's heads and had sex with their corpses. 365 00:21:41,764 --> 00:21:43,808 If that's not frenzied, I don't know what is. 366 00:21:43,891 --> 00:21:45,059 He is so articulate. 367 00:21:45,643 --> 00:21:49,605 He's meticulous and highly intelligent. 368 00:21:50,075 --> 00:21:52,103 Yeah, he meticulously chose small, 369 00:21:52,128 --> 00:21:54,418 young, female prey who couldn't fight back. 370 00:21:54,902 --> 00:21:56,028 Animal cunning. 371 00:21:56,111 --> 00:21:59,198 He's self-aware and objective. Isn't that highly unusual? 372 00:21:59,281 --> 00:22:00,881 He's saying everything you want to hear, 373 00:22:00,908 --> 00:22:03,285 just like he did with the shrinks in the institution. 374 00:22:03,369 --> 00:22:06,121 He knew just enough to talk his way out, then went hunting. 375 00:22:06,205 --> 00:22:07,440 Don't be stupid about this. 376 00:22:07,465 --> 00:22:09,107 What makes you so sure I'm being stupid? 377 00:22:09,166 --> 00:22:10,501 I know these fuckers. 378 00:22:10,584 --> 00:22:13,420 It's only a matter of time before he hits you up for privileges. 379 00:22:13,504 --> 00:22:15,325 Next, he's complaining to the warden... 380 00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:16,439 Come with me next weekend. 381 00:22:16,464 --> 00:22:19,802 - See for yourself. - No, I'm not gonna do that. 382 00:22:19,885 --> 00:22:21,470 You're just going to play golf? 383 00:22:22,304 --> 00:22:25,224 It helps me think clearly. You might want to try it. 384 00:22:27,935 --> 00:22:30,980 - Oh, yeah. Up a little. - Uh-huh. 385 00:22:33,232 --> 00:22:36,485 - Over a little. Left. - My left or your left? 386 00:22:36,569 --> 00:22:37,611 My left. 387 00:22:40,623 --> 00:22:41,699 This okay? 388 00:22:41,782 --> 00:22:43,242 It's fine. What's wrong? 389 00:22:43,325 --> 00:22:45,619 - You want a break? - Why would I want a break? 390 00:22:45,703 --> 00:22:47,621 - That's not how it works. - All right. 391 00:22:47,871 --> 00:22:51,125 You want me to throw in something? Play with your nipples? 392 00:22:51,208 --> 00:22:52,703 - Why? - Move it along. 393 00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:54,416 You're doing great. Just stop stopping. 394 00:22:54,441 --> 00:22:55,582 Okay. 395 00:22:58,841 --> 00:23:00,134 He knows more about lust murder 396 00:23:00,217 --> 00:23:02,511 than the whole FBI Behavioral Science Unit. 397 00:23:02,595 --> 00:23:05,514 - We should put him on the payroll. - Would the FBI ever do that? 398 00:23:05,598 --> 00:23:06,640 Doubtful. 399 00:23:06,724 --> 00:23:09,602 Everyone's freaked out that Berkowitz might sell his life story. 400 00:23:09,685 --> 00:23:12,438 New York State is moving to make that sort of thing illegal. 401 00:23:12,521 --> 00:23:14,607 It'd be awful for the families of the victims. 402 00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:16,317 - What can I get you? - Hi. 403 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,777 Uh, can I get two eggs over medium, 404 00:23:18,861 --> 00:23:21,947 home-fried potatoes, and wheat toast with grape jelly? 405 00:23:22,031 --> 00:23:23,866 - And for you? - Uh... 406 00:23:23,949 --> 00:23:26,557 - I'll just have an Ed salad sandwich... - A what? 407 00:23:26,616 --> 00:23:28,850 An egg salad sandwich. Thank you. 408 00:23:28,930 --> 00:23:30,450 Holden, you don't even like egg salad. 409 00:23:30,581 --> 00:23:33,334 - Thank you. - Right. Um... 410 00:23:33,417 --> 00:23:35,002 I'll just have a Denver omelet. 411 00:23:36,420 --> 00:23:39,548 You've got mention-itis. You cannot stop mentioning him. 412 00:23:39,632 --> 00:23:42,426 Think of how much we can learn from a guy like Kemper. 413 00:23:43,177 --> 00:23:45,095 He called it a vocation. 414 00:23:45,099 --> 00:23:46,116 - Killing women? - Yeah. 415 00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:48,891 Jesus. How do you wrap your mind around that? 416 00:23:49,975 --> 00:23:51,435 Couldn't attract them. 417 00:23:51,518 --> 00:23:53,187 Didn't have the social skills. 418 00:23:53,270 --> 00:23:55,064 That would describe a lot of guys. 419 00:23:56,565 --> 00:23:57,983 Why does he hate women? 420 00:23:58,484 --> 00:23:59,818 I should ask. 421 00:23:59,902 --> 00:24:02,302 - But not outright. - No? 422 00:24:02,448 --> 00:24:03,917 He sounds like the kind of person 423 00:24:03,962 --> 00:24:05,787 who would tell you what you wanna hear. 424 00:24:06,075 --> 00:24:08,786 - You have to disarm him first. - You mean, like... 425 00:24:09,912 --> 00:24:12,748 - What? - Ask him questions about himself. 426 00:24:13,749 --> 00:24:16,877 Lean into him, listen intently. 427 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,713 - I do that. - Keep your arms uncrossed. 428 00:24:20,422 --> 00:24:22,466 Mirror his movements. 429 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:26,178 Encourage him to talk about the things he's excited about. 430 00:24:26,261 --> 00:24:28,180 Are these feminine wiles? 431 00:24:28,263 --> 00:24:30,474 Cross your legs in his direction. 432 00:24:31,642 --> 00:24:34,061 - Do you really do that? - But don't touch him. 433 00:24:34,937 --> 00:24:36,522 You want him to like you, 434 00:24:37,064 --> 00:24:39,650 but you don't want him to think you're gonna fuck him. 435 00:24:42,111 --> 00:24:45,030 Look at your face. 436 00:24:53,831 --> 00:24:54,873 Here's the thing. 437 00:24:54,970 --> 00:24:56,950 I spent five years as a brick agent 438 00:24:56,992 --> 00:24:58,793 and a couple of years at the academy. 439 00:24:59,169 --> 00:25:00,546 - I'm squeaky clean. - Oh. 440 00:25:00,629 --> 00:25:02,297 I'm Eliot Ness. I'm... 441 00:25:02,381 --> 00:25:04,425 You're Melvin Purvis, G-MAN. 442 00:25:04,508 --> 00:25:05,509 Exactly. 443 00:25:05,592 --> 00:25:07,386 And back then, no skirt in the FBI. 444 00:25:07,469 --> 00:25:09,263 - No women, just men. - Wow. 445 00:25:09,346 --> 00:25:14,017 Then I enroll in college, and suddenly, I am Warren fucking Beatty. 446 00:25:14,101 --> 00:25:16,228 - Wow. - Everything goes. 447 00:25:16,311 --> 00:25:17,771 - You take sugar? - No. 448 00:25:17,855 --> 00:25:19,314 - Cool. Milk? - Thank you. 449 00:25:19,398 --> 00:25:21,984 - You got it, man. - Suddenly it's disco and poppers, 450 00:25:22,067 --> 00:25:23,360 and fern bars. 451 00:25:23,444 --> 00:25:25,696 I am up to my neck in chicks. 452 00:25:25,779 --> 00:25:27,406 Pussy, pussy, pussy. I hear that. 453 00:25:27,489 --> 00:25:31,535 It turns out chicks do really dig a guy with a badge. 454 00:25:31,618 --> 00:25:34,163 "Gas, grass, or ass. Nobody rides for free." 455 00:25:34,246 --> 00:25:37,249 Next thing I know, I'm with a 24-year-old that I met in a bar. 456 00:25:37,332 --> 00:25:40,836 No woman has ever been so into me in my entire life. 457 00:25:40,919 --> 00:25:42,337 Don't brag. It's unbecoming. 458 00:25:42,421 --> 00:25:44,339 Oh, my God. I am so sorry. 459 00:25:44,423 --> 00:25:45,549 I'm kidding. 460 00:25:46,216 --> 00:25:47,250 Man... 461 00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:51,847 the things she comes up with in the sack. 462 00:25:51,930 --> 00:25:53,599 You gotta love that young pussy. 463 00:25:54,183 --> 00:25:56,143 I do. I really fucking do. 464 00:25:56,226 --> 00:25:58,332 You gotta make it with that young pussy 465 00:25:58,357 --> 00:26:00,620 real quick before it turns into Mom. 466 00:26:03,066 --> 00:26:04,226 Yeah. 467 00:26:06,779 --> 00:26:10,073 So you were a virgin up until then, that's what you're saying? 468 00:26:10,157 --> 00:26:13,285 - No, not at all. - Oh, you go over like you're a virgin. 469 00:26:14,161 --> 00:26:15,871 - What? - What's wrong with that? 470 00:26:15,954 --> 00:26:17,206 I was a virgin for years. 471 00:26:17,289 --> 00:26:20,334 Oh, no, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just I'm... not. 472 00:26:20,751 --> 00:26:21,752 Uh-huh. 473 00:26:22,628 --> 00:26:25,464 This new girl, she take it up the ass? 474 00:26:28,509 --> 00:26:30,302 We haven't really discussed it. 475 00:26:30,385 --> 00:26:31,595 Ask her. 476 00:26:31,678 --> 00:26:34,973 An asshole will suck your cock right in, literally. 477 00:26:35,057 --> 00:26:36,683 It's like a hole that sucks. 478 00:26:36,767 --> 00:26:38,477 It's easy. 479 00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:42,731 But when you fuck somebody in the neck, it's entirely the opposite. 480 00:26:42,815 --> 00:26:46,652 It's nothing but resistance. It's really difficult. 481 00:26:46,735 --> 00:26:47,945 Let me. 482 00:26:48,028 --> 00:26:49,530 You feel this? 483 00:26:49,613 --> 00:26:51,615 Feel it. It's all muscle. 484 00:26:51,698 --> 00:26:53,325 Cartilaginous. 485 00:26:56,912 --> 00:26:58,288 Is this interesting? 486 00:26:58,747 --> 00:27:02,876 - Oh, yeah. - Because I can skip some of the detail. 487 00:27:03,335 --> 00:27:04,962 No, I'm here for the detail. 488 00:27:06,129 --> 00:27:07,798 A major college campus. 489 00:27:07,881 --> 00:27:11,635 It's like a giant candy store, you know what I mean. 490 00:27:11,718 --> 00:27:12,736 Right. 491 00:27:13,303 --> 00:27:18,934 Your, uh, your mom worked on campus at UCSC, right? 492 00:27:19,476 --> 00:27:21,061 Remind me again what she did. 493 00:27:24,064 --> 00:27:26,692 - Administrative assistant. - Right. 494 00:27:30,404 --> 00:27:33,824 That's all she lived for, man, her work and her precious coeds, 495 00:27:33,907 --> 00:27:35,909 whom she mothered relentlessly. 496 00:27:36,326 --> 00:27:38,829 Do you think that she neglected you for them? 497 00:27:38,912 --> 00:27:40,372 Put it this way, 498 00:27:40,873 --> 00:27:44,918 she had a very violently outspoken position on men. 499 00:27:46,253 --> 00:27:48,672 She had a failed marriage with my father. 500 00:27:48,755 --> 00:27:50,924 I looked a lot like him, so... 501 00:27:51,008 --> 00:27:52,509 You reminded her of him. 502 00:27:55,262 --> 00:27:58,432 Do you think you developed a dislike for young women as a result? 503 00:27:59,016 --> 00:28:00,976 As far as she was concerned, 504 00:28:01,602 --> 00:28:05,480 I was never going to end up with one of those girls 505 00:28:05,564 --> 00:28:07,858 because I was a fuckup and an embarrassment. 506 00:28:07,941 --> 00:28:10,027 - You were a failure in her eyes. - Look. 507 00:28:10,527 --> 00:28:14,573 My mother was a decent, upstanding, reasonable woman, 508 00:28:14,656 --> 00:28:16,909 but when it came to me, 509 00:28:16,992 --> 00:28:19,036 she had nothing but contempt, 510 00:28:19,703 --> 00:28:21,830 disappointment, and disdain. 511 00:28:23,874 --> 00:28:25,292 That must've been awful. 512 00:28:26,627 --> 00:28:28,003 Well, here's the thing. 513 00:28:32,633 --> 00:28:33,675 I'm listening. 514 00:28:37,137 --> 00:28:41,141 Women are born with this little hole between their legs... 515 00:28:42,059 --> 00:28:45,812 which every man on earth just wants to stick something into. 516 00:28:47,564 --> 00:28:49,149 And they're weaker than men, 517 00:28:50,108 --> 00:28:52,402 so they learn strategies. 518 00:28:52,486 --> 00:28:55,530 They deploy their minds and their sex, 519 00:28:55,614 --> 00:28:58,575 and they intuitively learn to humiliate. 520 00:29:01,161 --> 00:29:03,038 Did your mother humiliate you? 521 00:29:09,044 --> 00:29:10,103 Ed? 522 00:29:31,024 --> 00:29:33,402 Lust murder doesn't cut it. 523 00:29:33,485 --> 00:29:37,531 He did not stab, and rape, and decapitate Mom because he was aroused. 524 00:29:37,614 --> 00:29:39,449 He was conditioned to do it. 525 00:29:39,533 --> 00:29:41,952 - Did he say that? - As good as. 526 00:29:42,035 --> 00:29:43,203 It's schtick. 527 00:29:43,287 --> 00:29:45,205 He learned the vernacular in the institution. 528 00:29:45,289 --> 00:29:47,969 - He's sophisticated enough to use it. - No, that's not my instinct. 529 00:29:48,041 --> 00:29:50,156 Is it your instinct he was choosing words carefully 530 00:29:50,181 --> 00:29:51,295 or did he just spew it out? 531 00:29:51,296 --> 00:29:52,296 Very carefully. 532 00:29:52,321 --> 00:29:53,837 He's got you pegged. 533 00:29:53,883 --> 00:29:56,360 He's telling you what he's guessed you want to hear. 534 00:29:56,425 --> 00:29:59,428 - But why would I want to hear that? - Because you're you. 535 00:29:59,511 --> 00:30:01,722 You told him about your university education, 536 00:30:01,805 --> 00:30:04,266 and your sassy girlfriend, and your sensitive character, 537 00:30:04,349 --> 00:30:06,226 and he tailored his bullshit to fit. 538 00:30:07,728 --> 00:30:10,397 - Why did you tell him that stuff? - To loosen him up. 539 00:30:11,565 --> 00:30:14,151 Why do you feel the need to tell him about your girlfriend? 540 00:30:14,234 --> 00:30:15,652 Just to get him talking. 541 00:30:15,736 --> 00:30:18,405 Holden, he's had seven years in a correctional facility. 542 00:30:18,488 --> 00:30:20,490 He's been practicing. Don't encourage him. 543 00:30:20,574 --> 00:30:22,734 - I was trying to disarm him. - You're a federal agent. 544 00:30:22,758 --> 00:30:25,495 Don't give him anything. He's your subject. Be objective. 545 00:30:25,579 --> 00:30:28,332 - I've gotta trust my instincts on this. - There's that word again. 546 00:30:28,415 --> 00:30:30,542 So in Fairfield, Iowa you were in the Dark Ages, 547 00:30:30,625 --> 00:30:33,795 and now suddenly, you have all these unimpeachable instincts? 548 00:30:34,254 --> 00:30:35,547 Well, it's been a process. 549 00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:38,091 Okay, look, there's no doubt whatever happened in there 550 00:30:38,175 --> 00:30:40,177 was a profound experience for you, 551 00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:42,846 but I need you to understand that whatever you think, 552 00:30:42,929 --> 00:30:47,351 there is a distinct possibility that he's manipulating you. 553 00:31:44,825 --> 00:31:46,159 It's not my fault. 554 00:32:18,316 --> 00:32:20,735 Gentleman, I'm Detective Roy Carver. 555 00:32:20,819 --> 00:32:22,988 Listen, I was a little late for the presentation, 556 00:32:23,071 --> 00:32:24,364 but that was just great. 557 00:32:24,448 --> 00:32:26,700 - Well, thank you very much. - Glad to be of service. 558 00:32:26,783 --> 00:32:29,703 Listen, before you go, I was hoping I could ask you something. 559 00:32:29,786 --> 00:32:31,913 I know you're not just here to teach. 560 00:32:32,497 --> 00:32:35,597 - No, we really just teach, Roy. - Pretty much all we focus on. 561 00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:36,950 I was hoping I could get you guys 562 00:32:36,974 --> 00:32:39,030 to take a look at something a little, uh... 563 00:32:39,337 --> 00:32:40,355 unusual. 564 00:32:41,381 --> 00:32:42,924 Oh, sure thing. 565 00:32:47,804 --> 00:32:50,348 Her name's Rosemary Gonzales, 73 years old. 566 00:32:50,432 --> 00:32:53,727 Her husband died of cancer so she sold the family farm in Chico, 567 00:32:53,810 --> 00:32:56,354 moved to Sacramento to be closer to the grandkids. 568 00:32:57,981 --> 00:33:00,984 Two weeks ago, we find her beaten within an inch of her life 569 00:33:01,067 --> 00:33:02,527 in a doorway to her back porch. 570 00:33:02,986 --> 00:33:04,070 She hasn't been robbed. 571 00:33:04,154 --> 00:33:06,656 She's been groped and assaulted but not penetrated, 572 00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:09,826 and the little dog's throat's been cut. 573 00:33:11,746 --> 00:33:13,706 Was the dog killed because it was protecting her? 574 00:33:13,730 --> 00:33:15,123 Or for some other reason? 575 00:33:15,207 --> 00:33:17,334 That I don't know. But it's interesting. 576 00:33:17,417 --> 00:33:18,627 Why didn't he stab her? 577 00:33:19,628 --> 00:33:20,962 Didn't have the nerve? 578 00:33:21,046 --> 00:33:24,633 I don't think some Latino with a shiv got scared of a little old lady. 579 00:33:24,716 --> 00:33:27,469 Why do you say that? Why do you say "Latino" like that? 580 00:33:27,552 --> 00:33:29,346 That's the neighborhood, spics and blacks. 581 00:33:29,429 --> 00:33:31,723 Did she identify anybody of that ethnicity? 582 00:33:31,806 --> 00:33:35,018 No. She was hovering in and out of a coma for the past ten days. 583 00:33:35,101 --> 00:33:38,271 Now she's finally come around, she has no recollection whatsoever. 584 00:33:38,772 --> 00:33:40,565 You think it's about a little dog? 585 00:33:40,649 --> 00:33:43,235 Scottish Terriers can be loud. Their bark... 586 00:33:43,318 --> 00:33:45,487 - Could be annoying. - Listen... 587 00:33:46,530 --> 00:33:50,033 we need to know exactly how worried we need to be. 588 00:34:27,904 --> 00:34:30,782 My husband would've cried to see me like this. 589 00:34:31,449 --> 00:34:34,494 Me, I don't cry. I'm tough. 590 00:34:35,245 --> 00:34:38,248 But he was just like a baby. 591 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,543 It would've destroyed his faith in humanity. 592 00:34:43,628 --> 00:34:45,130 What did I ever do? 593 00:34:46,464 --> 00:34:48,466 Who would do such a thing? 594 00:34:50,051 --> 00:34:51,886 I never hurt a soul. 595 00:34:52,721 --> 00:34:54,598 I don't have any enemies. 596 00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:57,350 I don't dress like a whore. 597 00:34:58,226 --> 00:34:59,894 - I'm an old lady... - Está bien. 598 00:35:01,980 --> 00:35:03,315 Let me ask you something. 599 00:35:04,149 --> 00:35:06,026 Did your dog ever bite anyone? 600 00:35:06,401 --> 00:35:07,485 Never. 601 00:35:07,569 --> 00:35:10,739 Ever bother anyone by barking? Any complaints from neighbors? 602 00:35:10,822 --> 00:35:14,200 No. He was very well-behaved. 603 00:35:16,161 --> 00:35:19,414 - Who cuts the grass, Rosie? - Who helps you take care of the yard? 604 00:35:20,165 --> 00:35:22,667 I have all sorts of help. Kids mostly. 605 00:35:22,751 --> 00:35:23,768 Which kids? 606 00:35:24,461 --> 00:35:25,879 Just local kids. 607 00:35:26,379 --> 00:35:28,214 It's a very close community. 608 00:35:28,298 --> 00:35:31,134 And you didn't recognize your assailant? He wasn't familiar? 609 00:35:32,594 --> 00:35:34,220 I just don't remember. 610 00:35:36,556 --> 00:35:37,974 Do you have kids? 611 00:35:38,058 --> 00:35:39,059 Two daughters. 612 00:35:39,768 --> 00:35:40,810 Married? 613 00:35:41,436 --> 00:35:44,356 The eldest is divorced. Dios mío. 614 00:35:45,231 --> 00:35:47,442 The younger I don't see that often. 615 00:35:47,525 --> 00:35:49,110 Can you remember anything else? 616 00:35:49,235 --> 00:35:50,737 Was he big, little? 617 00:35:51,196 --> 00:35:54,991 Do you remember any moles, scars, tattoos, distinctive marks? 618 00:35:55,075 --> 00:35:56,993 I remember moonlight. 619 00:35:58,745 --> 00:35:59,788 And... 620 00:36:02,540 --> 00:36:04,626 I do remember a smell. 621 00:36:05,919 --> 00:36:07,170 What kind of smell? 622 00:36:07,754 --> 00:36:09,673 I don't know, he just... 623 00:36:11,341 --> 00:36:13,802 - He stank. - Like what? 624 00:36:13,885 --> 00:36:16,054 Grease or gasoline, fertilizer? 625 00:36:16,137 --> 00:36:17,222 Like a bum. 626 00:36:17,305 --> 00:36:19,599 Like somebody who needed to wash. 627 00:36:20,225 --> 00:36:23,520 Seventeen, eighteen-year-old high school kid, 628 00:36:23,603 --> 00:36:26,022 low self-esteem, hates authority, 629 00:36:26,606 --> 00:36:28,733 doesn't get along well with his parents. 630 00:36:29,192 --> 00:36:30,735 What, just some punk? 631 00:36:30,819 --> 00:36:32,779 Gets into a fight with his old man one night, 632 00:36:32,862 --> 00:36:37,575 maybe he gets a hold of a bottle of liquor and comes across the house, 633 00:36:37,659 --> 00:36:38,767 recognizes the place 634 00:36:38,792 --> 00:36:41,228 because he cut the grass there when he was younger. 635 00:36:41,287 --> 00:36:43,289 - Some neighborhood kid? - He goes inside. 636 00:36:43,957 --> 00:36:47,377 She doesn't recognize him, thinks he's broken in, and starts yelling. 637 00:36:47,836 --> 00:36:49,379 The fight gets physical. 638 00:36:49,462 --> 00:36:52,424 He's drunk, he beats the shit out of her. 639 00:36:53,216 --> 00:36:57,470 He knifes the dog because the dog is yapping its head off. 640 00:36:58,179 --> 00:36:59,305 And then he runs. 641 00:37:00,265 --> 00:37:02,976 Are you guys serious? A teenager? 642 00:37:03,059 --> 00:37:04,227 He has bad hygiene. 643 00:37:04,561 --> 00:37:08,148 Doesn't bathe because bathing is what his parents want. 644 00:37:08,231 --> 00:37:11,067 Look, we got a lot of kids like that around here. 645 00:37:12,652 --> 00:37:15,488 But what kind of degenerate carves up a little dog? 646 00:37:15,572 --> 00:37:17,657 Maybe the kid saw the dog in the yard, 647 00:37:17,741 --> 00:37:19,501 decided to conduct a moonlight experiment 648 00:37:19,526 --> 00:37:21,397 with his Bowie knife, gets interrupted. 649 00:37:22,495 --> 00:37:25,206 A careful, considerate old lady would bring her dog in at night. 650 00:37:25,290 --> 00:37:28,668 She went outside with the dog because she heard something. 651 00:37:29,461 --> 00:37:30,545 Listen. 652 00:37:30,628 --> 00:37:32,213 It was a harvest moon. 653 00:37:33,715 --> 00:37:35,402 We have been tossing the idea around 654 00:37:35,427 --> 00:37:37,159 that maybe it's one of these, uh... 655 00:37:37,385 --> 00:37:39,220 you know, satanic deals. 656 00:37:39,276 --> 00:37:40,396 You know, like maybe the dog 657 00:37:40,420 --> 00:37:42,289 is some kind of ritual sacrifice or something. 658 00:37:44,142 --> 00:37:45,159 Check. 659 00:37:48,605 --> 00:37:50,648 You need to squeeze the neighborhood kids. 660 00:37:50,732 --> 00:37:51,941 One of them knows something. 661 00:37:52,025 --> 00:37:54,652 We had a kid like that, brought him in for questioning twice. 662 00:37:54,736 --> 00:37:55,779 Bring him in again. 663 00:37:55,862 --> 00:37:57,502 We're gonna get pushback from the family. 664 00:37:57,572 --> 00:37:59,157 His aunt works for the county. 665 00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:02,202 - Then make it formal. - I'm probably gonna need a warrant. 666 00:38:02,285 --> 00:38:04,204 We might be able to help you with that. 667 00:38:11,336 --> 00:38:12,395 Fuck! 668 00:38:14,798 --> 00:38:18,176 Nancy's gonna kill me. We can't get a flight till Sunday. 669 00:38:22,013 --> 00:38:24,641 - Maybe this kid's like Kemper. - We have to get a room. 670 00:38:24,724 --> 00:38:27,811 I can take care of the room. We can turn this into an opportunity. 671 00:38:27,887 --> 00:38:29,571 It could help with the Gonzales case. 672 00:38:29,596 --> 00:38:31,129 I can't believe I'm stuck with you. 673 00:38:31,189 --> 00:38:33,066 - We can talk to Kemper. - No! 674 00:38:33,149 --> 00:38:35,193 - I'm gonna play golf. - Come with me. 675 00:38:35,276 --> 00:38:37,237 I'm not consulting with Ed Kemper. 676 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,656 Not to consult. Just background. 677 00:38:39,739 --> 00:38:41,282 When did his behavior escalate? 678 00:38:41,366 --> 00:38:43,446 You can't stay away from that motherfucker, can you? 679 00:38:43,493 --> 00:38:45,537 No, please. Don't say "motherfucker." 680 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,414 You know that he'll respond to your seniority. 681 00:38:48,498 --> 00:38:51,167 - You could really smoke him out. - No, not now. 682 00:38:51,793 --> 00:38:54,712 We're stuck here all weekend. What else are you gonna do? 683 00:38:56,089 --> 00:38:57,674 I said forget about it, man. 684 00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:13,314 So, you're the big boss, right? 685 00:39:13,398 --> 00:39:16,609 Well, I established the Behavioral Science Unit years ago, 686 00:39:16,693 --> 00:39:18,778 but Holden's come in with a lot of new ideas. 687 00:39:18,862 --> 00:39:22,323 So Holden's the intrepid rookie investigator? 688 00:39:22,407 --> 00:39:25,326 Bill taught me everything I know about criminal behavior. 689 00:39:25,410 --> 00:39:28,288 Is that right? Well, let me ask you something, Bill. 690 00:39:28,371 --> 00:39:30,999 What do you think about Joseph Wambaugh? 691 00:39:31,082 --> 00:39:33,751 He knows Joe. Right, Bill? 692 00:39:34,402 --> 00:39:35,484 Well... 693 00:39:35,503 --> 00:39:38,214 Actually, he based a lot of that stuff on Bill. 694 00:39:39,841 --> 00:39:41,843 - No shit. - Uh-huh. 695 00:39:41,926 --> 00:39:44,304 Not the, uh, stories, 696 00:39:44,387 --> 00:39:47,599 but the psychological insights and the vernacular. 697 00:39:47,682 --> 00:39:48,758 Yeah. 698 00:39:49,058 --> 00:39:50,768 That is fascinating. 699 00:39:51,269 --> 00:39:54,022 I sure would love to pick your brain sometime. 700 00:39:54,105 --> 00:39:55,985 Well, that's another life sentence right there. 701 00:39:56,065 --> 00:39:58,318 Maybe you could, uh... 702 00:39:58,401 --> 00:40:01,070 talk about your background a little bit with Bill. 703 00:40:01,654 --> 00:40:05,366 Maybe tell him the thing that you told me the other day 704 00:40:05,450 --> 00:40:06,659 about your mother. 705 00:40:08,953 --> 00:40:10,163 My mother. 706 00:40:13,291 --> 00:40:15,668 Well, you see, Bill, 707 00:40:15,752 --> 00:40:19,923 even as a child, I had kind of a rich fantasy life. 708 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,094 As a teenager, I began by cutting up inanimate objects. 709 00:40:25,178 --> 00:40:27,305 G.I. Joe. My sister's dolls. 710 00:40:27,388 --> 00:40:30,266 Ripping their heads off, cutting up the bodies. 711 00:40:30,767 --> 00:40:32,769 Mutilating them, if you will. 712 00:40:32,852 --> 00:40:35,605 You had fantasies of what, real women? 713 00:40:35,688 --> 00:40:36,731 Oh, yeah. 714 00:40:36,814 --> 00:40:40,860 And my mother would yell and scream at me, tell me I was sick. 715 00:40:40,944 --> 00:40:43,947 She thought I was going to do something hideous one day. 716 00:40:44,030 --> 00:40:45,657 What did she think you were gonna do? 717 00:40:45,740 --> 00:40:49,160 I guess rape my sister or something. 718 00:40:49,619 --> 00:40:51,871 This is when I was ten years old. 719 00:40:53,122 --> 00:40:54,157 Nice. 720 00:40:54,457 --> 00:40:56,417 Not exactly The Brady Bunch. 721 00:40:56,501 --> 00:40:58,181 Why do you think she thought this? 722 00:40:58,211 --> 00:40:59,895 Because she was fucking nuts. 723 00:40:59,929 --> 00:41:01,489 You didn't do anything to frighten her? 724 00:41:01,513 --> 00:41:03,001 She frightened me. 725 00:41:03,424 --> 00:41:07,095 She'd make me sleep on a dirty old mattress in the basement. 726 00:41:07,178 --> 00:41:09,889 Lock the door. Ten years old. 727 00:41:09,973 --> 00:41:12,433 So then it became dogs and cats, strangling them, 728 00:41:12,517 --> 00:41:14,894 burying them in the backyard. 729 00:41:14,978 --> 00:41:16,896 Hold on. Sorry. 730 00:41:20,233 --> 00:41:21,567 Just to vent. 731 00:41:22,735 --> 00:41:26,406 You know what I'm saying? Classic displacement activity. 732 00:41:26,489 --> 00:41:30,785 Because it was my retreat from the insanity of the world. 733 00:41:30,868 --> 00:41:32,954 - Then, you see... - Sorry. Wait a minute. 734 00:41:33,037 --> 00:41:34,038 Sorry, guys. 735 00:41:38,751 --> 00:41:40,294 Is that why your mother sent you away? 736 00:41:41,546 --> 00:41:44,173 In the end, I ran away to live with my father, 737 00:41:44,257 --> 00:41:46,050 but he didn't want me either. 738 00:41:46,134 --> 00:41:49,595 So they packed me off to live with my grandma. 739 00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:51,556 She thought I was a freak. 740 00:41:51,639 --> 00:41:52,890 Is that why you shot her? 741 00:41:53,433 --> 00:41:57,186 Well, they were both very controlling, aggressive, matriarchal women. 742 00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:59,689 - Matriarchal? - Female-centric. 743 00:41:59,772 --> 00:42:01,733 Get that down. That's a big antecedent. 744 00:42:02,233 --> 00:42:03,276 What happened after that? 745 00:42:04,152 --> 00:42:06,362 I was put in a fucking mental institution. 746 00:42:06,988 --> 00:42:08,072 I was 15. 747 00:42:08,156 --> 00:42:10,992 I was 21 years old when I came out. 748 00:42:11,075 --> 00:42:14,912 All those years when other kids were having their sexual revolution, 749 00:42:14,996 --> 00:42:16,748 I was locked in a room. 750 00:42:17,373 --> 00:42:19,146 You remember the whole flower power, 751 00:42:19,171 --> 00:42:21,959 college girls into love and peace? 752 00:42:23,337 --> 00:42:28,051 Physically, I wasn't impotent, but emotionally I was. 753 00:42:29,469 --> 00:42:34,057 Because of the way I was conditioned by Mom, right? Like you said. 754 00:42:34,140 --> 00:42:35,892 - Conditioned? - Right. 755 00:42:37,060 --> 00:42:38,394 You see, Bill, 756 00:42:39,020 --> 00:42:42,231 I knew a week before she died I was gonna kill her. 757 00:42:44,901 --> 00:42:49,739 She went out to a party, she got soused, she came home alone. 758 00:42:49,822 --> 00:42:53,159 I asked her how her evening went. She just looked at me. 759 00:42:54,410 --> 00:42:56,662 She said, "For seven years." 760 00:42:57,288 --> 00:42:59,588 She said, "I haven't had sex with a man" 761 00:42:59,617 --> 00:43:01,958 because of you, my murderous son." 762 00:43:07,465 --> 00:43:10,426 So I got a claw hammer and I beat her to death. 763 00:43:12,178 --> 00:43:13,513 Then I cut her head off. 764 00:43:18,476 --> 00:43:20,353 And I humiliated her. 765 00:43:24,899 --> 00:43:27,652 And I said, "There. Now you've had sex." 766 00:43:32,740 --> 00:43:35,201 If there's one thing I know, it's this: 767 00:43:36,911 --> 00:43:39,789 A mother should not scorn her own son. 768 00:43:40,957 --> 00:43:43,084 If a woman humiliates her little boy, 769 00:43:43,167 --> 00:43:47,588 he will become hostile, and violent, and debased. Period. 770 00:43:58,182 --> 00:43:59,888 Ladies and gentlemen, 771 00:43:59,913 --> 00:44:01,958 we've reached our cruising altitude... 772 00:44:02,103 --> 00:44:04,647 - I think we need to talk. - Now do you see? 773 00:44:04,730 --> 00:44:06,941 I need to speak to Shepard. Tell him what's going on. 774 00:44:07,024 --> 00:44:08,024 It's too early. 775 00:44:08,025 --> 00:44:10,027 The longer we wait, the worse it's gonna be. 776 00:44:10,111 --> 00:44:13,114 - We'll be drowned in red tape. - And there's a reason for that. 777 00:44:13,197 --> 00:44:16,367 The FBI is a glacial bureaucracy, but it's highly effective. 778 00:44:16,450 --> 00:44:18,911 Kemper's in lockdown, what's he gonna do? 779 00:44:18,995 --> 00:44:21,247 Kemper is a gigantic blabbermouth. 780 00:44:21,330 --> 00:44:23,124 He's friends with all the prison guards. 781 00:44:23,207 --> 00:44:24,652 A federal agent is meeting with him, 782 00:44:24,677 --> 00:44:26,401 you think that hasn't reached the warden? 783 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,339 A couple of months, that's all I need. 784 00:44:30,423 --> 00:44:32,717 No. Because if we get censured, 785 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,469 we're off work two weeks minimum, no appeal. 786 00:44:35,553 --> 00:44:37,930 And you can kiss goodbye to the Gonzales case. 787 00:44:38,014 --> 00:44:39,640 They'll never catch that guy. 788 00:44:45,313 --> 00:44:47,857 Did you tell a detective in Sacramento you would intercede 789 00:44:47,940 --> 00:44:50,651 with the district attorney on behalf of the FBI? 790 00:44:51,235 --> 00:44:54,280 Some DA called me and asked why I had two agents in Sacramento. 791 00:44:54,363 --> 00:44:56,574 "Two goons," his exact words. 792 00:44:56,657 --> 00:44:57,909 It's a strange case. 793 00:44:57,992 --> 00:45:00,703 The locals were struggling. We were trying to figure a way forward. 794 00:45:00,786 --> 00:45:02,246 What were you thinking? 795 00:45:02,330 --> 00:45:04,165 At the time, we deemed this of great urgency. 796 00:45:04,248 --> 00:45:05,583 The circumstances were unusual. 797 00:45:05,666 --> 00:45:08,586 Assault and battery? Since when does the FBI consult on that? 798 00:45:08,669 --> 00:45:09,712 Not even homicide. 799 00:45:09,795 --> 00:45:11,130 Unless you count a dog. 800 00:45:11,672 --> 00:45:13,758 Bill, the past three years I've heard you complain 801 00:45:13,801 --> 00:45:15,801 about how overworked you are with the Road School. 802 00:45:15,825 --> 00:45:16,928 I gave you your assistant, 803 00:45:17,011 --> 00:45:19,305 and this is how you choose to spend your time? 804 00:45:20,681 --> 00:45:23,225 I trust you understand my position on this. 805 00:45:24,852 --> 00:45:27,396 Is there anything else you want to tell me? 806 00:45:36,447 --> 00:45:39,533 I get back on Tuesday, if you want to pick me up from the airport. 807 00:45:39,617 --> 00:45:40,743 Sure, I'd love to. 808 00:45:41,744 --> 00:45:44,580 - You should come with me sometime. - To Detroit? 809 00:45:45,498 --> 00:45:48,334 See your old stomping grounds. Meet my mom. 810 00:45:50,086 --> 00:45:51,446 Okay, good to know where we're at. 811 00:45:51,504 --> 00:45:54,507 - No, I would love to meet your mom. - I said sometime. 812 00:45:54,590 --> 00:45:56,759 No, actually, it's something I would really enjoy. 813 00:45:56,842 --> 00:45:58,427 I meant eventually. 814 00:45:58,511 --> 00:46:00,846 I'm sure she's really, really lovely. 815 00:46:01,430 --> 00:46:03,557 Actually, she's kind of a bitch, 816 00:46:04,433 --> 00:46:06,310 especially when it comes to people I'm dating. 817 00:46:06,394 --> 00:46:07,428 Really? 818 00:46:07,937 --> 00:46:09,855 But... I like you. 819 00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:13,359 I might give you the secret to win her over. 820 00:46:15,528 --> 00:46:16,529 What might that be? 821 00:46:16,612 --> 00:46:18,147 Well, Mom doesn't care 822 00:46:18,172 --> 00:46:20,454 what kind of music you like, what kind of job you have, 823 00:46:20,479 --> 00:46:22,064 what kind of car you drive. 824 00:46:22,576 --> 00:46:25,955 Instead, she'll ask you about your mother. 825 00:46:26,580 --> 00:46:29,041 It'll seem like a perfectly innocent question, 826 00:46:29,125 --> 00:46:31,210 but she'll be watching you closely. 827 00:46:32,211 --> 00:46:34,880 If she thinks you love and respect your mom, 828 00:46:35,548 --> 00:46:38,259 she'll know that you'll treat her daughter the same way. 829 00:46:41,053 --> 00:46:42,388 That's actually shrewd. 830 00:46:43,055 --> 00:46:45,725 ...hair group. It can't do anything about the hair... 831 00:46:45,808 --> 00:46:46,934 So... 832 00:46:48,019 --> 00:46:49,270 do you like your mom? 833 00:46:51,814 --> 00:46:52,857 I do. 834 00:46:52,940 --> 00:46:55,401 She's someone I really enjoy talking to. 835 00:46:55,985 --> 00:46:58,863 I knew it. I knew you were a momma's boy. 836 00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:04,368 You should just come with me tomorrow. You've already passed the test. 837 00:47:04,827 --> 00:47:06,495 I couldn't even if I wanted to. 838 00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:09,165 Shepard doesn't want us leaving town. 839 00:47:09,248 --> 00:47:10,666 Why? What's happened? 840 00:47:11,167 --> 00:47:12,460 We... Well... 841 00:47:13,085 --> 00:47:14,103 I... 842 00:47:14,754 --> 00:47:16,255 really fucked up. 843 00:47:16,839 --> 00:47:18,632 Ooh. You grounded? 844 00:47:23,095 --> 00:47:25,806 When are they gonna start taking this whole thing seriously? 845 00:47:55,753 --> 00:47:57,421 - Hi. - Hi. 846 00:48:07,014 --> 00:48:10,518 - How do you know where I live? - Personnel gave me your address. 847 00:48:20,903 --> 00:48:22,154 Let's go back to Shepard. 848 00:48:22,848 --> 00:48:25,008 Tell him about Kemper, tell him what we've been doing. 849 00:48:25,032 --> 00:48:27,743 - You think he'll listen now? - Let's make it official. 850 00:48:27,827 --> 00:48:30,079 You don't want to wait till Sacramento blows over? 851 00:48:30,162 --> 00:48:32,665 No, I want to go back to Sacramento and fix it. 852 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,543 If we fix it, Shepard might give us what we want. 853 00:48:37,211 --> 00:48:39,672 He's not stupid. He'll have to listen. 854 00:48:39,755 --> 00:48:42,049 Are you out of your fucking minds?! 855 00:48:42,133 --> 00:48:43,843 You interviewed Edmund Kemper? 856 00:48:43,926 --> 00:48:46,011 Not so much interviewed. More like a conversation. 857 00:48:46,095 --> 00:48:48,889 He said interesting things that turned out to be really useful. 858 00:48:48,973 --> 00:48:50,724 - What the fuck? - I just had this idea... 859 00:48:50,808 --> 00:48:53,060 I don't want to hear your idea. I'm sick of your ideas. 860 00:48:53,144 --> 00:48:55,688 It is not our job to commiserate with these people. 861 00:48:55,771 --> 00:48:58,607 It is our job to electrocute them. How long has this been going on? 862 00:48:58,691 --> 00:48:59,971 Just when we were in Sacramento. 863 00:48:59,995 --> 00:49:02,378 Sir... the conversations with Kemper shed light 864 00:49:02,403 --> 00:49:04,123 on things we've been exploring in the unit. 865 00:49:04,155 --> 00:49:06,635 There's a correlation with what we're finding at crime scenes. 866 00:49:06,659 --> 00:49:07,908 It proves that we're on track. 867 00:49:07,992 --> 00:49:09,857 Proof the Federal Bureau of Investigation 868 00:49:09,882 --> 00:49:11,436 is on track after all these years? 869 00:49:11,495 --> 00:49:14,081 Well, golly, what a relief. I am so pleased for us. 870 00:49:14,165 --> 00:49:16,292 - We're pleased too. - Don't smart-mouth me, Holden! 871 00:49:16,375 --> 00:49:19,461 You fucked up the Gonzales situation, pissed off the Sacramento DA, 872 00:49:19,545 --> 00:49:22,214 and you've been interviewing lifers in the state penitentiary. 873 00:49:22,298 --> 00:49:25,719 Sir, the insights during these visits may help us identify 874 00:49:25,792 --> 00:49:27,168 the person responsible for the attacks 875 00:49:27,192 --> 00:49:28,512 in Sacramento and prevent others. 876 00:49:28,536 --> 00:49:31,056 Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Here's what it is. Burn your notes. 877 00:49:31,140 --> 00:49:32,645 Don't speak to me about this anymore. 878 00:49:32,670 --> 00:49:34,417 Don't put it in any reports. You're done. 879 00:49:34,476 --> 00:49:35,519 Excuse me, sir. 880 00:49:36,729 --> 00:49:39,565 I truly believe there is a vein here that needs to be mined. 881 00:49:39,648 --> 00:49:42,234 Okay, kiddo. You're looking down the barrel. 882 00:49:42,735 --> 00:49:45,613 Three whole bags: Censure, suspension, transfer. 883 00:50:00,711 --> 00:50:01,754 Pardon me. 884 00:50:03,297 --> 00:50:06,383 Sir, permit me to speak. I've been doing this shit for seven years. 885 00:50:06,467 --> 00:50:08,907 I trained Holden because he was transferred to my department. 886 00:50:08,969 --> 00:50:10,763 He knows his criminal psychology. 887 00:50:10,846 --> 00:50:12,973 He's done his homework, worked his butt off, 888 00:50:13,057 --> 00:50:14,497 and now I think he's onto something. 889 00:50:14,558 --> 00:50:16,727 Onto what? He made friends with the Coed Killer. 890 00:50:16,810 --> 00:50:19,271 If this is going to work, we need to talk to more subjects. 891 00:50:19,355 --> 00:50:22,233 More? No! What's next, Charles Manson? When's he booked for? 892 00:50:22,316 --> 00:50:23,943 We were thinking June. 893 00:50:24,652 --> 00:50:25,736 I think it's right. 894 00:50:25,819 --> 00:50:27,571 We need to use whatever resource... 895 00:50:27,655 --> 00:50:29,782 Resource, my ass! What's the matter, bored with golf? 896 00:50:29,865 --> 00:50:32,534 California jails are full of thrill killers and lust murderers. 897 00:50:32,625 --> 00:50:34,306 And we put them there, that's our job. 898 00:50:34,331 --> 00:50:35,568 Dying and rotting on the vine. 899 00:50:35,621 --> 00:50:38,123 Cry me a river, Holden. All the wasted potential. 900 00:50:38,207 --> 00:50:39,333 It is wasted potential, sir. 901 00:50:39,416 --> 00:50:41,502 - We could be using these people. - Using how? 902 00:50:41,585 --> 00:50:43,712 - Their knowledge and insight. - Of what? 903 00:50:43,796 --> 00:50:44,981 - Themselves. - Whoselves?! 904 00:50:45,005 --> 00:50:46,485 Then we know what we're talking about 905 00:50:46,509 --> 00:50:48,251 when we speak to other law enforcement. 906 00:50:48,282 --> 00:50:50,994 - Can you make him shut up? - I have not been able to, sir. 907 00:50:51,845 --> 00:50:55,474 How do we get ahead of crazy if we don't know how crazy thinks? 908 00:51:05,442 --> 00:51:06,902 I like you, Bill. 909 00:51:07,528 --> 00:51:09,989 I don't particularly like him, but I like you. 910 00:51:12,783 --> 00:51:15,244 Okay, you may continue with your little sideshow. 911 00:51:15,327 --> 00:51:17,371 However, no one can know about it. Clear? 912 00:51:18,205 --> 00:51:19,456 You will relocate yourselves 913 00:51:19,540 --> 00:51:22,001 to the basement beneath Behavioral Sciences, 914 00:51:22,084 --> 00:51:24,211 reporting directly and exclusively to me. 915 00:51:24,295 --> 00:51:25,921 The basement? I'm 44 years old. 916 00:51:26,005 --> 00:51:29,258 You may dedicate ten hours of your 50-hour work week to this. 917 00:51:29,341 --> 00:51:31,261 If I deem any aspect of it to be unwarranted, 918 00:51:31,286 --> 00:51:32,903 unnecessary, or unsavory, 919 00:51:32,928 --> 00:51:35,097 I will end it. Do you both understand? 920 00:51:35,180 --> 00:51:36,198 Yes. 921 00:51:37,266 --> 00:51:38,283 And thank you, sir. 922 00:51:39,018 --> 00:51:40,144 Thank you, sir. 923 00:53:06,399 --> 00:53:09,721 synced & corrected by PopcornAWH www.addic7ed.com