1 00:00:21,700 --> 00:00:22,740 May I help you? 2 00:00:23,460 --> 00:00:25,260 Yes. Thank you. 3 00:00:25,330 --> 00:00:27,330 I need some replacement electrical tape. 4 00:00:27,670 --> 00:00:30,390 Okay. You bring me the empty and I'll get you a new roll. 5 00:00:30,460 --> 00:00:31,330 Empty what? 6 00:00:32,300 --> 00:00:35,140 The cardboard core that's left when you run out of tape. 7 00:00:36,180 --> 00:00:37,520 What? Why? 8 00:00:38,300 --> 00:00:39,720 That's the way we do it. 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,480 I can't give you a new one until we get the old. 10 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,470 Are you kidding me? 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:47,240 No. 12 00:00:49,570 --> 00:00:51,200 Whatever, Dennis. 13 00:01:03,024 --> 00:01:11,024 ReEncoded By Dr.XJ | PSA www.PSArips.com 14 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,760 This is your captain speaking. New York City to the Bay Area... 15 00:02:43,850 --> 00:02:46,940 Just, hey, do me a favor. Don't mention this to me ever again. 16 00:02:47,020 --> 00:02:49,690 -I'm going to. -It's the insanest idea I've ever heard. 17 00:02:49,770 --> 00:02:51,730 -I'm going to, Bill. -We have a job to do. 18 00:02:51,810 --> 00:02:54,890 -We are here to teach. -Chino, California Medical, 19 00:02:54,980 --> 00:02:58,020 California Men's Colony, Norco, Soledad, San Quentin-- 20 00:02:58,110 --> 00:03:01,280 If you'd said to me, "I want to become a Beach Boy, take up surfing, 21 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,530 -sit around smoking the vibes." -Folsom. 22 00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:05,330 Or, "I want to make it in the movies. 23 00:03:05,410 --> 00:03:07,820 Gonna get me a walk-up in West Hollywood and a Pekingese." 24 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:10,540 Manson is 30 miles away in Vacaville. 25 00:03:10,620 --> 00:03:12,200 A hop, skip, and a jump. 26 00:03:12,580 --> 00:03:14,910 -You really wanna meet Charlie Manson? -Why not? 27 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,790 - Sir. -Swing by and say hi. 28 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:17,800 Yeah. 29 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:19,640 Thank you. 30 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:24,060 Nobody wants to hear about that crazy motherfucker. 31 00:03:24,140 --> 00:03:25,230 You know this. 32 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:28,220 Welcome to San Francisco. Please remain seated... 33 00:03:28,310 --> 00:03:31,980 Besides, when are you gonna find time for these fireside chats, Holden? 34 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:35,450 I'll figure it out. 35 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,120 Nobody can talk to Manson. 36 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,910 Tom Snyder's been trying to interview him for years. 37 00:03:43,990 --> 00:03:46,240 We're the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 38 00:03:46,330 --> 00:03:48,540 What if his civil rights are being violated? 39 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,540 Please just get in the car. 40 00:04:11,930 --> 00:04:15,350 In California every year, 35 percent of murders go unsolved. 41 00:04:16,060 --> 00:04:18,770 That's more unsolved murders than in any other state. 42 00:04:18,860 --> 00:04:20,620 It's partly due to geography. 43 00:04:20,690 --> 00:04:22,820 In the woods, in the mountains, 44 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:24,940 -ravines, hiking trails-- -You can't get to Manson, 45 00:04:25,030 --> 00:04:27,450 -even if you're a fed. - 46 00:04:27,530 --> 00:04:29,950 CMF treats him like a fucking unicorn. 47 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,380 No one needs to think about psychology more than the people in Santa Cruz. 48 00:04:34,250 --> 00:04:38,090 -In a homicide situation... -If you go to Vacaville, meet Ed Kemper. 49 00:04:38,170 --> 00:04:42,050 - What happened that triggered him? -Give me that name again. 50 00:04:42,130 --> 00:04:45,630 Kemper. Ed Kemper. They call him the "Coed Killer." 51 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,100 What about when even the killer doesn't know why he behaved as he did? 52 00:04:49,180 --> 00:04:51,930 You can't miss the guy. He's like six foot nine, 285 pounds. 53 00:04:52,020 --> 00:04:53,610 -Whoa. King-size. -Super king. 54 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,390 - Violent murder used to be... -Killed a bunch of coeds in Santa Cruz. 55 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,650 Six teenage girls, chops their heads off, has sexual intercourse with the corpses. 56 00:05:00,730 --> 00:05:02,940 -Oh... -Kills his mom with a claw hammer, 57 00:05:03,030 --> 00:05:04,910 has sexual intercourse with her head. 58 00:05:04,990 --> 00:05:07,040 -Bullshit. -In her mouth. 59 00:05:07,410 --> 00:05:08,580 -No. -Yeah. 60 00:05:08,660 --> 00:05:11,750 When strangers murder strangers for no apparent reason... 61 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:14,750 He was in a mental institution right up until then too. 62 00:05:14,830 --> 00:05:17,910 He's a total whack job. He was murdering his grandparents at the age of 15, 63 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,540 but then he manages to convince everyone that he's completely rehabilitated. 64 00:05:21,630 --> 00:05:22,510 Oh, my God. 65 00:05:22,590 --> 00:05:25,720 In many of these crimes, the motives are not just obscure... 66 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,800 Jim Conor knew him real well. I'll introduce you. 67 00:05:28,890 --> 00:05:30,230 -Really? -Yeah. 68 00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:32,930 -...borderline unfathomable. -Thank you. 69 00:05:33,890 --> 00:05:36,470 Used to call him Big Ed. Everybody here knew him. 70 00:05:37,060 --> 00:05:40,810 -Was he an informant? -No, but he was smart. He was funny. 71 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,370 He used to watch all the cop shows on TV. Crazy about Wambaugh and Police Story. 72 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,860 He wanted to be CHP, but it didn't work out. 73 00:05:47,950 --> 00:05:50,790 He would joke that they could conceal his psychiatric record 74 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:52,040 but not his fat ass. 75 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:54,780 Stupid shit like that. 76 00:05:55,450 --> 00:05:57,740 Guys like him always want to be in uniform. 77 00:05:57,830 --> 00:06:00,250 Losers. Losers are drawn to authority. 78 00:06:00,330 --> 00:06:02,670 Nobody wants to admit it, but losers are useful. 79 00:06:02,750 --> 00:06:04,630 -Why? - They're nosy. 80 00:06:04,710 --> 00:06:08,380 They know what everybody else is up to. And they're resentful, a lot of 'em. 81 00:06:08,470 --> 00:06:10,810 -They always got a raw deal. -Ed was a busybody. 82 00:06:11,390 --> 00:06:13,310 And this was before you knew about the killings? 83 00:06:13,390 --> 00:06:16,150 Oh, we knew about 'em, just hadn't connected them with him. 84 00:06:16,230 --> 00:06:19,280 -He kept asking about them, though. -And you didn't suspect him? 85 00:06:21,980 --> 00:06:22,980 What? 86 00:06:23,070 --> 00:06:25,160 "What?" You liked the guy. 87 00:06:26,570 --> 00:06:29,870 -Let's say he was a friendly nuisance. -Oh, come on. 88 00:06:29,950 --> 00:06:32,710 -He was hard not to like. -So you were the arresting officer? 89 00:06:32,780 --> 00:06:35,780 In the end, he lit out to Pueblo, Colorado, 90 00:06:35,870 --> 00:06:38,030 expecting there to be some kind of manhunt. 91 00:06:38,540 --> 00:06:42,470 When nobody came, he got sick of waiting and decided to turn himself in. 92 00:06:43,130 --> 00:06:45,590 Called from a pay phone. Confessed! 93 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:49,390 We thought he was bullshitting. I drove him all the way back. 94 00:06:49,470 --> 00:06:53,390 He wouldn't stop yakking. Going into forensic detail. 95 00:06:53,470 --> 00:06:54,970 I thought I hit the jackpot. 96 00:06:55,060 --> 00:06:58,400 After a few hours, I'm like, "Oh, God, please. Enough!" 97 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,190 You think Kemper would talk to us? 98 00:07:00,980 --> 00:07:02,530 Try stopping him. 99 00:07:02,610 --> 00:07:03,780 Who's "us," kemosabe? 100 00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:10,270 David Berkowitz, 24. 101 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,950 Spent his days sorting letters at the post office so he could... 102 00:07:14,030 --> 00:07:14,860 What? 103 00:07:15,450 --> 00:07:17,110 Really, what are you expecting to learn? 104 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:20,080 A killer who can't stop talking? It's a gift. 105 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:21,120 A gift, huh? 106 00:07:21,790 --> 00:07:24,000 He made a severed head perform fellatio on him. 107 00:07:24,710 --> 00:07:27,460 His third victim was a 15-year-old child, Holden. 108 00:07:29,590 --> 00:07:30,590 You don't want to talk? 109 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,640 So, basically, you just got me out here to carry your slide projector? 110 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,810 To help with the workload, yeah. The work we're sanctioned to do. 111 00:07:36,890 --> 00:07:39,900 Kemper doesn't interest you or is beneath you somehow? 112 00:07:39,980 --> 00:07:41,070 A little of both. 113 00:07:41,690 --> 00:07:44,190 -This is the man... - Think the tie's too much? 114 00:07:44,940 --> 00:07:46,030 What about the suit? 115 00:07:46,110 --> 00:07:48,740 Anybody finds out you're a fed, there'll be a riot. 116 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:51,230 Shepard finds out you've been interviewing the Coed Killer 117 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:52,940 as a side project, he'll flip his shit. 118 00:07:53,030 --> 00:07:55,570 It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. 119 00:07:55,660 --> 00:07:57,920 Okay. 120 00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:02,800 If you're gonna go in, you need to go in stone goddamn cold, 121 00:08:02,870 --> 00:08:05,870 take him by surprise, get the fuck out as quick as possible. 122 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:06,790 Good advice. 123 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,680 Straight in there, don't phone, don't give them a chance to ask around. 124 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:11,850 I'm a buddy of Jim Conor's. 125 00:08:12,430 --> 00:08:15,770 "Jim Conor reached out," you bet. "He sends his regards." 126 00:08:15,850 --> 00:08:18,020 "I stopped by the Jury Room for a drink." 127 00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:20,690 "The guys all say..." Blah, blah, blah. 128 00:08:20,770 --> 00:08:23,400 -"Can I call you Big Ed?" -I wouldn't mention the killings. 129 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,650 You're not there because he's a necrophile degenerate. 130 00:08:25,730 --> 00:08:28,060 You're there because he's... fascinating. 131 00:08:28,150 --> 00:08:29,860 How do I not mention the killings? 132 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:31,520 Just take it slow. 133 00:08:33,450 --> 00:08:35,910 -What are you doing? -Just in case. 134 00:08:35,990 --> 00:08:37,950 They're not gonna let you in with a sidearm. 135 00:08:38,030 --> 00:08:40,870 The guy is six foot nine, weighs 300 pounds. 136 00:08:40,950 --> 00:08:43,030 -That's right. -So what's he gonna do? 137 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,830 He's gonna take the fucking thing away, kill you with it, 138 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,010 and then have sex with your face. 139 00:09:03,430 --> 00:09:04,470 Hold it, guys. 140 00:09:09,820 --> 00:09:12,070 -You're clear. - I don't want to spoil your fun. 141 00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:13,940 -I'm good. Nine is fine. - 142 00:09:14,030 --> 00:09:15,950 You could come. Take notes. 143 00:09:16,030 --> 00:09:18,280 You take notes, I'll help you write 'em up. 144 00:09:18,370 --> 00:09:19,910 You're really gonna go golfing 145 00:09:19,990 --> 00:09:23,030 while I glean profound insights from the Coed Killer? 146 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,080 -It's my day off. -You're gonna be sorry. 147 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,580 No. You're gonna be sorry, Holden, 148 00:09:26,670 --> 00:09:29,630 when he decides you're using him and there's nothing in it for good old Ed. 149 00:09:29,710 --> 00:09:31,080 -I think there is. -What? 150 00:09:31,630 --> 00:09:35,050 He's going to be part of something instead of rotting inside a cell. 151 00:09:35,130 --> 00:09:37,460 Part of what? We're not even here. 152 00:09:40,350 --> 00:09:41,190 All right. 153 00:09:47,810 --> 00:09:50,140 I must respectfully ask for your badge and firearm. 154 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:54,570 Yes, sir. 155 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,660 In addition, I have some paperwork for you to sign. 156 00:10:04,750 --> 00:10:08,340 A disclaimer that states in the event of your death, or if you're taken hostage, 157 00:10:08,420 --> 00:10:11,340 attacked, assaulted, or otherwise abused within the correctional facility, 158 00:10:11,420 --> 00:10:14,680 the United States government forswears any and all liability. 159 00:10:16,010 --> 00:10:18,810 Oh. Okay. 160 00:10:47,410 --> 00:10:48,740 Kiss my ass! 161 00:10:59,510 --> 00:11:01,600 Hey, boy, bring that shit over here! 162 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:02,680 Bitch! 163 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,650 Can we unlock the-- 164 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,600 No, those stay on. They're regulation. 165 00:11:50,770 --> 00:11:53,110 I think that's gonna be a little awkward. 166 00:11:55,060 --> 00:11:56,230 You're FBI. 167 00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:06,500 -Okay. You're all set. -Thanks, Jim. 168 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:08,330 - I'll see ya later. -Later. 169 00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:17,680 Holden, right? 170 00:12:20,510 --> 00:12:22,390 -Edward. -Edmund. 171 00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:24,970 -Oh, I'm sorry. I assumed that it was-- -Are you tired? 172 00:12:25,050 --> 00:12:26,380 How could you tell? 173 00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:28,930 It's a beautiful drive, but it's long. 174 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,440 Edmund was my mom's idea, so you can call me Ed. 175 00:12:36,690 --> 00:12:37,740 Sure thing. 176 00:12:39,940 --> 00:12:41,440 So how can I help? 177 00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:44,870 Okay. Um... 178 00:12:46,490 --> 00:12:50,280 I'm an instructor working out of the Behavioral Science Unit at Quantico, 179 00:12:50,370 --> 00:12:51,540 and I had this idea-- 180 00:12:51,620 --> 00:12:53,080 Have you had breakfast? 181 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,580 Can I get you something? You want a sandwich? 182 00:12:56,170 --> 00:12:58,970 -No, I'm okay. -What kind of sandwich you like? 183 00:13:00,250 --> 00:13:04,300 -Um... I'm good. -You want an egg salad sandwich? 184 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,220 -I'm fine. Really. -I'll get us an egg salad sandwich. 185 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:11,010 I can get almost anything you want from the canteen. 186 00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:17,310 Okay. 187 00:13:18,860 --> 00:13:21,490 -Do you have tuna? -Oh, the egg salad's better. 188 00:13:22,860 --> 00:13:24,190 -Hey, Jim? - Yeah, Ed? 189 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,490 Have you seen Mitch this morning? You think you can find him for me? 190 00:13:31,620 --> 00:13:33,630 -Good, huh? -Mmm! 191 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,490 These guys are great. 192 00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:38,870 I've been here five years. We just clicked right off the bat. 193 00:13:40,210 --> 00:13:41,420 You like the guards? 194 00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:44,260 Well, they like me. I'm polite. 195 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,970 You know, I heard that you used to drink at the Jury Room. 196 00:13:50,510 --> 00:13:52,260 You mean in Santa Cruz? 197 00:13:52,770 --> 00:13:55,020 Yeah, those are good guys. 198 00:13:55,930 --> 00:13:58,680 I applied to California Highway Patrol. 199 00:13:58,770 --> 00:14:03,270 My mom spoke to the cops to get my psychiatric record expunged. 200 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,530 Turns out my record didn't bother them at all, I was just too tall. 201 00:14:07,610 --> 00:14:11,820 Too tall? I've heard of being too short, but... 202 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,040 What? 203 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,990 Nothing. It just seems... 204 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,660 You think they lied to me? 205 00:14:20,750 --> 00:14:21,580 No. 206 00:14:23,050 --> 00:14:26,220 Well, cops like me because they can talk to me... 207 00:14:27,130 --> 00:14:30,050 more than they can talk to their own wives, some of them. 208 00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:31,680 Really? What do you talk about? 209 00:14:32,220 --> 00:14:33,680 You know, books, movies. 210 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,680 I watch all the cop shows on TV. 211 00:14:36,770 --> 00:14:37,900 Do you know, uh... 212 00:14:39,310 --> 00:14:42,230 Joseph Wambaugh, Police Story? You ever watch that? 213 00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:43,560 - Huge fan. -Oh. 214 00:14:43,650 --> 00:14:46,660 I got a lot of my insights right there. 215 00:14:46,740 --> 00:14:47,620 Really? 216 00:14:48,990 --> 00:14:50,290 What kind of insights? 217 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,240 Well, so, for example, with cops, 218 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,910 I would not allow myself to walk into a trap 219 00:14:54,990 --> 00:14:58,780 because I knew exactly how their minds worked from watching Wambaugh. 220 00:14:58,870 --> 00:15:00,620 What kind of trap are you talking about? 221 00:15:00,710 --> 00:15:03,090 The classic is talking too much about the crimes. 222 00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:04,220 Over-interest. 223 00:15:04,750 --> 00:15:06,580 You have to remain casual. 224 00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:09,670 They tried everything to trick me. I'm too savvy. 225 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,720 I don't fucking talk, period. 226 00:15:13,850 --> 00:15:15,640 Really? That's interesting. 227 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:16,550 So... 228 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:19,640 you had this idea? 229 00:15:19,730 --> 00:15:20,860 Yes. Uh, yes. 230 00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:24,280 It's kind of, uh... 231 00:15:27,610 --> 00:15:30,120 Well, it's more of a research thing. 232 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:31,200 Research. 233 00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:33,440 Just a series of interviews, 234 00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:35,200 chatting with... 235 00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:39,530 individuals not unlike yourself. 236 00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:42,170 We're just talking? 237 00:15:43,330 --> 00:15:46,040 I don't get to go someplace, do a bunch of tests? 238 00:15:46,130 --> 00:15:48,340 No. Yeah, no tests. Just right here. 239 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:49,710 Why? 240 00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:52,600 Well, because I believe it could be useful. 241 00:15:54,050 --> 00:15:55,470 Talking about what? 242 00:15:56,010 --> 00:15:57,300 Well, I don't know. 243 00:15:59,390 --> 00:16:00,300 Your... 244 00:16:01,390 --> 00:16:03,470 behavior, I guess. 245 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,730 If you want to, that is. 246 00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:10,490 We don't have to talk about anything at all if you don't want to. 247 00:16:11,950 --> 00:16:13,830 Why are you so tense? 248 00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:14,830 Hm? 249 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,070 You're tense, right now. 250 00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:19,160 No, I'm not tense. 251 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:24,210 Well, I'll be honest, I don't get many visitors. 252 00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:27,580 When I do, you think they want to talk about this shit? 253 00:16:28,130 --> 00:16:31,220 Fuck no. It's like if you worked at a slaughterhouse with livestock, 254 00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:33,140 real conversation stopper. 255 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:34,560 Did you? 256 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,430 No, I'm just saying... 257 00:16:37,180 --> 00:16:39,900 People who hunt other people for a vocation, 258 00:16:39,970 --> 00:16:42,850 all we want to talk about is what it's like. 259 00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:46,350 The shit that went down. The entire fucked-upness of it. 260 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:48,570 Right, sure. 261 00:16:49,570 --> 00:16:52,200 It's not easy. Butchering people is hard work. 262 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:56,320 Physically and mentally. I don't think people realize. 263 00:16:56,410 --> 00:16:57,700 You need to vent. 264 00:16:59,830 --> 00:17:01,460 What are you writing down? 265 00:17:01,540 --> 00:17:05,840 Oh, I just think it's an interesting choice of words, "vocation." 266 00:17:07,380 --> 00:17:08,970 Well, what would you call it? 267 00:17:10,090 --> 00:17:12,890 A hobby? I'd say it's more than that. 268 00:17:13,550 --> 00:17:17,720 Look at the consequences. The stakes are very high. 269 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,140 Is this helping? Are you getting what you came for? 270 00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:25,650 -I think. -Good. 271 00:17:25,730 --> 00:17:27,650 Can I-- Could I just ask you something? 272 00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:31,160 Do you believe that prison can help you? 273 00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:32,730 Are you kidding? 274 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,740 You think you shouldn't be in prison? 275 00:17:35,820 --> 00:17:39,780 I think it's shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, somewhat. 276 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,910 What do you think the state should do with you instead? 277 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,500 Well, Holden, a lobotomy's not out of the question. 278 00:17:46,580 --> 00:17:47,790 Lobotomy? 279 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,340 Like Frances Farmer. 280 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,380 -You remember Frances Farmer? -No. 281 00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:54,880 I loved Frances Farmer. She was an actress. 282 00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:57,140 They lobotomized her in the '50s. 283 00:17:57,220 --> 00:18:02,850 She was very smart and intense... very misunderstood. She was a lot like me. 284 00:18:02,930 --> 00:18:05,430 You don't think you could benefit from psychiatry? 285 00:18:05,730 --> 00:18:08,730 I already did all that in the institution. 286 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,610 It didn't take. 287 00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:16,120 For me, I think surgery might give me the best chance. 288 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,580 And if surgery doesn't... take, 289 00:18:20,030 --> 00:18:24,780 in this modern society, what do we do with the Ed Kempers of the world? 290 00:18:25,410 --> 00:18:27,200 Well, isn't that your department? 291 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:31,830 From your perspective. 292 00:18:37,420 --> 00:18:38,800 Death by torture? 293 00:18:58,110 --> 00:19:00,780 So what are you not telling me? 294 00:19:01,370 --> 00:19:03,790 Why do you keep looking at me like that? 295 00:19:03,870 --> 00:19:06,040 -Like what? -Funny. 296 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,090 You keep looking at me like I'm a specimen. 297 00:19:10,830 --> 00:19:12,410 Well, to be honest... 298 00:19:14,170 --> 00:19:16,430 It's just you seem like a nice, ordinary... 299 00:19:17,710 --> 00:19:21,260 It's difficult for me to square you with what you're in prison for. 300 00:19:22,550 --> 00:19:23,470 Oh. 301 00:19:24,350 --> 00:19:25,390 Well, sure. 302 00:19:28,180 --> 00:19:31,430 I was a regular guy most of my life, 303 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,850 with a nice home, nice suburb. 304 00:19:33,940 --> 00:19:35,950 I had pets, I went to a good school. 305 00:19:36,020 --> 00:19:40,070 I was a thoughtful, educated, well brought up young person. 306 00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:41,900 There's no question about it. 307 00:19:42,780 --> 00:19:43,610 But... 308 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,780 at the same time... 309 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:51,830 I was living a vile, depraved, entirely parallel other life 310 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,090 filled with debased violence and mayhem, and fear, and death. 311 00:19:56,170 --> 00:19:57,130 Well... 312 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,710 it certainly seems to me like you had your own unusual... 313 00:20:04,090 --> 00:20:06,130 An unusual MO. Oh, sure. 314 00:20:06,220 --> 00:20:08,680 Well, I was gonna say... 315 00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:10,400 signature. 316 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:12,720 An oeuvre , if you will. 317 00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:14,850 You could study it. 318 00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:19,230 You can spell oeuvre, can't you, Holden? 319 00:20:21,650 --> 00:20:23,860 You know, there's a lot more like me. 320 00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:27,370 Do you think so? 321 00:20:28,290 --> 00:20:30,000 People that kill in sequence like you did? 322 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,090 -Sequence? -One right after another. 323 00:20:32,620 --> 00:20:33,700 At regular intervals. 324 00:20:33,790 --> 00:20:35,330 I've just been calling them... 325 00:20:36,290 --> 00:20:37,910 "sequence killers"... 326 00:20:38,750 --> 00:20:39,750 if you will. 327 00:20:40,210 --> 00:20:42,790 -How many would you say? -Well... 328 00:20:44,890 --> 00:20:46,520 it would be a guess, 329 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,060 but I'd say right now... 330 00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:53,980 North America, more than 35. 331 00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:55,100 Thirty-five? 332 00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:59,240 But you're never gonna find them if they don't want you to. Not even close. 333 00:21:00,570 --> 00:21:01,910 That can't be right. 334 00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:05,200 Well, Holden, I'm not an expert. I'm not an authority. 335 00:21:05,780 --> 00:21:08,900 I'm just an extremely accomplished murderer 336 00:21:08,990 --> 00:21:12,740 who spent my adult life successfully evading capture... 337 00:21:13,790 --> 00:21:17,380 until I gave myself up because I despaired of ever being caught. 338 00:21:19,290 --> 00:21:20,870 So take it or leave it. 339 00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:23,600 What do you want from me? 340 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,130 I have no idea. 341 00:21:28,930 --> 00:21:32,350 His oeuvre? What the fuck? He's Stanley Kubrick? 342 00:21:32,430 --> 00:21:34,760 He was extremely talkative. 343 00:21:34,850 --> 00:21:38,060 He likes talking to cops. He's lonely. He could do it all day. 344 00:21:38,150 --> 00:21:40,650 He's not some frenzied thrill killer, Bill. 345 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,020 I think we need to face that. 346 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:46,780 He chopped off women's heads and had sex with their corpses. 347 00:21:46,860 --> 00:21:48,900 If that's not frenzied, I don't know what is. 348 00:21:48,990 --> 00:21:50,150 He is so articulate. 349 00:21:50,740 --> 00:21:54,700 He's meticulous and highly intelligent. 350 00:21:54,790 --> 00:21:59,510 Yeah, he meticulously chose small, young, female prey who couldn't fight back. 351 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,120 Animal cunning. 352 00:22:01,210 --> 00:22:04,290 He's self-aware and objective. Isn't that highly unusual? 353 00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:05,920 He's saying everything you want to hear, 354 00:22:06,010 --> 00:22:08,390 just like he did with the shrinks in the institution. 355 00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:11,230 He knew just enough to talk his way out, then went hunting. 356 00:22:11,300 --> 00:22:14,180 -Don't be stupid about this. -What makes you so sure I'm being stupid? 357 00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:15,610 I know these fuckers. 358 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,520 It's only a matter of time before he hits you up for privileges. 359 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,440 -Next, he's complaining to the warden-- -Come with me next weekend. 360 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,900 -See for yourself. -No, I'm not gonna do that. 361 00:22:24,990 --> 00:22:26,580 You're just going to play golf? 362 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,320 It helps me think clearly. You might want to try it. 363 00:22:33,030 --> 00:22:36,070 - Oh, yeah. Up a little. - Uh-huh. 364 00:22:38,330 --> 00:22:41,580 -Over a little. Left. -My left or your left? 365 00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:42,720 My left. 366 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:46,790 This okay? 367 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,340 It's fine. What's wrong? 368 00:22:48,430 --> 00:22:50,720 -You want a break? -Why would I want a break? 369 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,720 -That's not how it works. -All right. 370 00:22:52,970 --> 00:22:56,220 You want me to throw in something? Play with your nipples? 371 00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:58,060 -Why? -Move it along. 372 00:22:58,140 --> 00:23:00,770 -You're doing great. Just stop stopping. -Okay. 373 00:23:03,940 --> 00:23:05,230 He knows more about lust murder 374 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,620 than the whole FBI Behavioral Science Unit. 375 00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:10,610 -We should put him on the payroll. -Would the FBI ever do that? 376 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:11,750 Doubtful. 377 00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:14,700 Everyone's freaked out that Berkowitz might sell his life story. 378 00:23:14,780 --> 00:23:17,530 New York State is moving to make that sort of thing illegal. 379 00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:19,700 It'd be awful for the families of the victims. 380 00:23:19,790 --> 00:23:21,420 - What can I get you? -Hi. 381 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:23,880 Uh, can I get two eggs over medium, 382 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,040 home-fried potatoes, and wheat toast with grape jelly? 383 00:23:27,130 --> 00:23:28,960 -And for you? -Uh... 384 00:23:29,050 --> 00:23:31,770 -I'll just have an Ed salad sandwich-- -A what? 385 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,590 -An egg salad sandwich. Thank you. -Holden, you don't even like egg salad. 386 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,430 - Thank you. -Right. Um... 387 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,110 I'll just have a Denver omelet. 388 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,650 You've got mention-itis. You cannot stop mentioning him. 389 00:23:44,730 --> 00:23:47,520 Think of how much we can learn from a guy like Kemper. 390 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,200 He called it a vocation. 391 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,200 -Killing women? -Yeah. 392 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,000 Jesus. How do you wrap your mind around that? 393 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,540 Couldn't attract them. 394 00:23:56,620 --> 00:23:58,290 Didn't have the social skills. 395 00:23:58,370 --> 00:24:00,160 That would describe a lot of guys. 396 00:24:01,670 --> 00:24:03,090 Why does he hate women? 397 00:24:03,580 --> 00:24:04,910 I should ask. 398 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,710 -But not outright. -No? 399 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,100 He sounds like the kind of person who would tell you what you wanna hear. 400 00:24:11,170 --> 00:24:13,880 -You have to disarm him first. -You mean, like... 401 00:24:15,010 --> 00:24:17,840 -What? -Ask him questions about himself. 402 00:24:18,850 --> 00:24:21,980 Lean into him, listen intently. 403 00:24:22,060 --> 00:24:24,810 -I do that. -Keep your arms uncrossed. 404 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,560 Mirror his movements. 405 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,270 Encourage him to talk about the things he's excited about. 406 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,280 Are these feminine wiles? 407 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:35,570 Cross your legs in his direction. 408 00:24:36,740 --> 00:24:39,160 -Do you really do that? -But don't touch him. 409 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,630 You want him to like you, 410 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,740 but you don't want him to think you're gonna fuck him. 411 00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:50,130 Look at your face. 412 00:24:58,930 --> 00:24:59,970 Here's the thing. 413 00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:03,480 I spent five years as a brick agent and a couple of years at the academy. 414 00:25:04,270 --> 00:25:05,650 -I'm squeaky clean. - Oh. 415 00:25:05,730 --> 00:25:07,400 I'm Eliot Ness. I'm-- 416 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,520 You're Melvin Purvis, G-MAN. 417 00:25:09,610 --> 00:25:10,610 Exactly. 418 00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:12,480 And back then, no skirt in the FBI. 419 00:25:12,570 --> 00:25:14,370 -No women, just men. -Wow. 420 00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:19,120 Then I enroll in college, and suddenly, I am Warren fucking Beatty. 421 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,320 -Wow. -Everything goes. 422 00:25:21,410 --> 00:25:22,870 -You take sugar? -No. 423 00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:24,410 -Cool. Milk? -Thank you. 424 00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:27,090 -You got it, man. -Suddenly it's disco and poppers, 425 00:25:27,170 --> 00:25:28,470 and fern bars. 426 00:25:28,540 --> 00:25:30,790 I am up to my neck in chicks. 427 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,510 Pussy, pussy, pussy. I hear that. 428 00:25:32,590 --> 00:25:36,640 It turns out chicks do really dig a guy with a badge. 429 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,270 "Gas, grass, or ass. Nobody rides for free." 430 00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:42,350 Next thing I know, I'm with a 24-year-old that I met in a bar. 431 00:25:42,430 --> 00:25:45,930 No woman has ever been so into me in my entire life. 432 00:25:46,020 --> 00:25:47,440 Don't brag. It's unbecoming. 433 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,430 Oh, my God. I am so sorry. 434 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:50,640 I'm kidding. 435 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,160 Man... 436 00:25:54,570 --> 00:25:56,950 the things she comes up with in the sack. 437 00:25:57,030 --> 00:25:58,690 You gotta love that young pussy. 438 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,240 I do. I really fucking do. 439 00:26:01,330 --> 00:26:05,920 You gotta make it with that young pussy real quick before it turns into Mom. 440 00:26:08,170 --> 00:26:09,130 Yeah. 441 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,180 So you were a virgin up until then, that's what you're saying? 442 00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:18,390 -No, not at all. -Oh, you go over like you're a virgin. 443 00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:20,970 -What? -What's wrong with that? 444 00:26:21,050 --> 00:26:22,300 I was a virgin for years. 445 00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:25,440 Oh, no, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just I'm... not. 446 00:26:25,850 --> 00:26:26,850 Uh-huh. 447 00:26:27,730 --> 00:26:30,570 This new girl, she take it up the ass? 448 00:26:33,610 --> 00:26:35,410 We haven't really discussed it. 449 00:26:35,490 --> 00:26:36,700 Ask her. 450 00:26:36,780 --> 00:26:40,080 An asshole will suck your cock right in, literally. 451 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,790 It's like a hole that sucks. 452 00:26:41,870 --> 00:26:43,580 It's easy. 453 00:26:44,370 --> 00:26:47,840 But when you fuck somebody in the neck, it's entirely the opposite. 454 00:26:47,910 --> 00:26:51,750 It's nothing but resistance. It's really difficult. 455 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,050 Let me. 456 00:26:53,130 --> 00:26:54,630 You feel this? 457 00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:56,710 Feel it. It's all muscle. 458 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,430 Cartilaginous. 459 00:27:02,010 --> 00:27:03,380 Is this interesting? 460 00:27:03,850 --> 00:27:07,980 -Oh, yeah. -Because I can skip some of the detail. 461 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,070 No, I'm here for the detail. 462 00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:12,900 A major college campus. 463 00:27:12,980 --> 00:27:16,730 It's like a giant candy store, you know what I mean. 464 00:27:16,820 --> 00:27:17,740 Right. 465 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:24,030 Your, uh, your mom worked on campus at UCSC, right? 466 00:27:24,580 --> 00:27:26,170 Remind me again what she did. 467 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,790 -Administrative assistant. -Right. 468 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,920 That's all she lived for, man, her work and her precious coeds, 469 00:27:39,010 --> 00:27:41,010 whom she mothered relentlessly. 470 00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:43,930 Do you think that she neglected you for them? 471 00:27:44,010 --> 00:27:45,470 Put it this way, 472 00:27:45,970 --> 00:27:50,010 she had a very violently outspoken position on men. 473 00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:53,770 She had a failed marriage with my father. 474 00:27:53,860 --> 00:27:56,030 I looked a lot like him, so... 475 00:27:56,110 --> 00:27:57,610 You reminded her of him. 476 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:03,530 Do you think you developed a dislike for young women as a result? 477 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,080 As far as she was concerned, 478 00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:10,580 I was never going to end up with one of those girls 479 00:28:10,660 --> 00:28:12,950 because I was a fuckup and an embarrassment. 480 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,120 -You were a failure in her eyes. -Look. 481 00:28:15,630 --> 00:28:19,680 My mother was a decent, upstanding, reasonable woman, 482 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,010 but when it came to me, 483 00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:24,130 she had nothing but contempt, 484 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,930 disappointment, and disdain. 485 00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:30,390 That must've been awful. 486 00:28:31,730 --> 00:28:33,110 Well, here's the thing. 487 00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:38,770 I'm listening. 488 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,250 Women are born with this little hole between their legs... 489 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,920 which every man on earth just wants to stick something into. 490 00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:54,240 And they're weaker than men, 491 00:28:55,210 --> 00:28:57,510 so they learn strategies. 492 00:28:57,590 --> 00:29:00,640 They deploy their minds and their sex, 493 00:29:00,710 --> 00:29:03,670 and they intuitively learn to humiliate. 494 00:29:06,260 --> 00:29:08,130 Did your mother humiliate you? 495 00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:15,100 Ed? 496 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,500 Lust murder doesn't cut it. 497 00:29:38,590 --> 00:29:42,640 He did not stab, and rape, and decapitate Mom because he was aroused. 498 00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:44,540 He was conditioned to do it. 499 00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:47,050 -Did he say that? -As good as. 500 00:29:47,140 --> 00:29:48,310 It's schtick. 501 00:29:48,390 --> 00:29:50,310 He learned the vernacular in the institution. 502 00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:53,060 -He's sophisticated enough to use it. -No, that's not my instinct. 503 00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:56,390 Is it your instinct he was choosing words carefully or did he just spew it out? 504 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,320 Very carefully. 505 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,990 He's got you pegged. He's telling you what he's guessed you want to hear. 506 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,520 -But why would I want to hear that? -Because you're you. 507 00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:06,820 You told him about your university education, 508 00:30:06,910 --> 00:30:09,370 and your sassy girlfriend, and your sensitive character, 509 00:30:09,450 --> 00:30:11,330 and he tailored his bullshit to fit. 510 00:30:12,830 --> 00:30:15,500 -Why did you tell him that stuff? -To loosen him up. 511 00:30:16,660 --> 00:30:19,250 Why do you feel the need to tell him about your girlfriend? 512 00:30:19,330 --> 00:30:20,750 Just to get him talking. 513 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,510 Holden, he's had seven years in a correctional facility. 514 00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:25,600 He's been practicing. Don't encourage him. 515 00:30:25,670 --> 00:30:27,750 -I was trying to disarm him. -You're a federal agent. 516 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,590 Don't give him anything. He's your subject. Be objective. 517 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,440 -I've gotta trust my instincts on this. -There's that word again. 518 00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:35,640 So in Fairfield, Iowa you were in the Dark Ages, 519 00:30:35,730 --> 00:30:38,900 and now suddenly, you have all these unimpeachable instincts? 520 00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:40,640 Well, it's been a process. 521 00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:43,190 Okay, look, there's no doubt whatever happened in there 522 00:30:43,270 --> 00:30:45,270 was a profound experience for you, 523 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,940 but I need you to understand that whatever you think, 524 00:30:48,030 --> 00:30:52,460 there is a distinct possibility that he's manipulating you. 525 00:30:52,530 --> 00:30:55,160 [Steve Miller Band's "Fly Like an Eagle" playing] 526 00:31:02,130 --> 00:31:04,760 ♪ Ticktock, tick Doo, doo, doo, doo ♪ 527 00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:10,050 ♪ Ticktock, tick Doo, doo, doo, doo ♪ 528 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,050 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 529 00:31:15,770 --> 00:31:19,980 ♪ Into the future ♪ 530 00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:25,350 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 531 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,900 ♪ Into the future ♪ 532 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:34,120 ♪ I want to fly like an eagle ♪ 533 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,070 ♪ To the sea ♪ 534 00:31:36,490 --> 00:31:40,740 ♪ Fly like an eagle Let my spirit carry me ♪ 535 00:31:40,830 --> 00:31:46,080 ♪ I want to fly like an eagle Till I'm free ♪ 536 00:31:46,670 --> 00:31:49,840 ♪ Fly through the revolution ♪ 537 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,250 It's not my fault. 538 00:31:51,340 --> 00:31:54,010 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 539 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,140 ♪ Into the future ♪ 540 00:32:00,940 --> 00:32:03,900 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 541 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,900 ♪ Into the future ♪ 542 00:32:10,450 --> 00:32:13,620 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 543 00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:17,870 ♪ Into the future ♪ 544 00:32:19,870 --> 00:32:23,330 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 545 00:32:23,420 --> 00:32:25,840 Gentleman, I'm Detective Roy Carver. 546 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,090 Listen, I was a little late for the presentation, 547 00:32:28,170 --> 00:32:29,460 but that was just great. 548 00:32:29,550 --> 00:32:31,800 -Well, thank you very much. -Glad to be of service. 549 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,800 Listen, before you go, I was hoping I could ask you something. 550 00:32:34,890 --> 00:32:37,020 I know you're not just here to teach. 551 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,940 -No, we really just teach, Roy. -Pretty much all we focus on. 552 00:32:41,020 --> 00:32:44,360 I was hoping I could get you to take a look at something a little, uh... 553 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,360 unusual. 554 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,020 Oh, sure thing. 555 00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:55,440 Her name's Rosemary Gonzales, 73 years old. 556 00:32:55,530 --> 00:32:58,820 Her husband died of cancer so she sold the family farm in Chico, 557 00:32:58,910 --> 00:33:01,450 moved to Sacramento to be closer to the grandkids. 558 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,080 Two weeks ago, we find her beaten within an inch of her life 559 00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:07,630 in a doorway to her back porch. 560 00:33:08,090 --> 00:33:09,180 She hasn't been robbed. 561 00:33:09,250 --> 00:33:11,750 She's been groped and assaulted but not penetrated, 562 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,930 and the little dog's throat's been cut. 563 00:33:16,890 --> 00:33:18,680 Was the dog killed because it was protecting her? 564 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,220 Or for some other reason? 565 00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:22,440 That I don't know. But it's interesting. 566 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:23,730 Why didn't he stab her? 567 00:33:24,730 --> 00:33:26,070 Didn't have the nerve? 568 00:33:26,150 --> 00:33:29,740 I don't think some Latino with a shiv got scared of a little old lady. 569 00:33:29,820 --> 00:33:32,570 Why do you say that? Why do you say "Latino" like that? 570 00:33:32,650 --> 00:33:34,440 That's the neighborhood, spics and blacks. 571 00:33:34,530 --> 00:33:36,830 Did she identify anybody of that ethnicity? 572 00:33:36,910 --> 00:33:40,120 No. She was hovering in and out of a coma for the past ten days. 573 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,370 Now she's finally come around, she has no recollection whatsoever. 574 00:33:43,870 --> 00:33:45,660 You think it's about a little dog? 575 00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:48,340 Scottish Terriers can be loud. Their bark... 576 00:33:48,420 --> 00:33:50,590 -Could be annoying. -Listen... 577 00:33:51,630 --> 00:33:55,140 we need to know exactly how worried we need to be. 578 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,880 My husband would've cried to see me like this. 579 00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:39,600 Me, I don't cry. I'm tough. 580 00:34:40,340 --> 00:34:43,340 But he was just like a baby. 581 00:34:44,140 --> 00:34:46,640 It would've destroyed his faith in humanity. 582 00:34:48,730 --> 00:34:50,230 What did I ever do? 583 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,560 Who would do such a thing? 584 00:34:55,150 --> 00:34:56,980 I never hurt a soul. 585 00:34:57,820 --> 00:34:59,690 I don't have any enemies. 586 00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:02,460 I don't dress like a whore. 587 00:35:03,330 --> 00:35:05,000 -I'm an old lady-- - Está bien. 588 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,420 Let me ask you something. 589 00:35:09,250 --> 00:35:11,130 Did your dog ever bite anyone? 590 00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:12,580 Never. 591 00:35:12,670 --> 00:35:15,840 Ever bother anyone by barking? Any complaints from neighbors? 592 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,300 No. He was very well-behaved. 593 00:35:21,260 --> 00:35:24,510 -Who cuts the grass, Rosie? -Who helps you take care of the yard? 594 00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:27,760 I have all sorts of help. Kids mostly. 595 00:35:27,850 --> 00:35:28,760 Which kids? 596 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:30,970 Just local kids. 597 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,320 It's a very close community. 598 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,240 And you didn't recognize your assailant? He wasn't familiar? 599 00:35:37,690 --> 00:35:39,320 I just don't remember. 600 00:35:41,660 --> 00:35:43,080 Do you have kids? 601 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,160 Two daughters. 602 00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:45,920 Married? 603 00:35:46,540 --> 00:35:49,460 The eldest is divorced. Dios mío. 604 00:35:50,330 --> 00:35:52,540 The younger I don't see that often. 605 00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:54,220 Can you remember anything else? 606 00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:55,840 Was he big, little? 607 00:35:56,300 --> 00:36:00,100 Do you remember any moles, scars, tattoos, distinctive marks? 608 00:36:00,170 --> 00:36:02,090 I remember moonlight. 609 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:04,880 And... 610 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,720 I do remember a smell. 611 00:36:11,020 --> 00:36:12,280 What kind of smell? 612 00:36:12,850 --> 00:36:14,770 I don't know, he just... 613 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,900 -He stank. - Like what? 614 00:36:18,990 --> 00:36:21,160 Grease or gasoline, fertilizer? 615 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:22,330 Like a bum. 616 00:36:22,410 --> 00:36:24,700 Like somebody who needed to wash. 617 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,610 Seventeen, eighteen-year-old high school kid, 618 00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:31,120 low self-esteem, hates authority, 619 00:36:31,710 --> 00:36:33,840 doesn't get along well with his parents. 620 00:36:34,290 --> 00:36:35,830 What, just some punk? 621 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,880 Gets into a fight with his old man one night, 622 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,670 maybe he gets a hold of a bottle of liquor and comes across the house, 623 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,310 recognizes the place because he cut the grass there when he was younger. 624 00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:48,390 -Some neighborhood kid? - He goes inside. 625 00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:52,480 She doesn't recognize him, thinks he's broken in, and starts yelling. 626 00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:54,480 The fight gets physical. 627 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,520 He's drunk, he beats the shit out of her. 628 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,580 He knifes the dog because the dog is yapping its head off. 629 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:04,410 And then he runs. 630 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,070 Are you guys serious? A teenager? 631 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,330 He has bad hygiene. 632 00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:13,240 Doesn't bathe because bathing is what his parents want. 633 00:37:13,330 --> 00:37:16,160 Look, we got a lot of kids like that around here. 634 00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:20,580 But what kind of degenerate carves up a little dog? 635 00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:22,750 Maybe the kid saw the dog in the yard, 636 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,670 decided to conduct a moonlight experiment with his Bowie knife, gets interrupted. 637 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,310 A careful, considerate old lady would bring her dog in at night. 638 00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:33,770 She went outside with the dog because she heard something. 639 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:35,640 Listen. 640 00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:37,320 It was a harvest moon. 641 00:37:38,810 --> 00:37:42,230 We have been tossing the idea around that maybe it's one of these, uh... 642 00:37:42,490 --> 00:37:44,330 you know, satanic deals. 643 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,360 You know, like maybe the dog is some kind of ritual sacrifice or something. 644 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:50,150 Check. 645 00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:55,740 You need to squeeze the neighborhood kids. 646 00:37:55,830 --> 00:37:57,040 One of them knows something. 647 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,750 We had a kid like that, brought him in for questioning twice. 648 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:00,880 Bring him in again. 649 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,580 We're gonna get pushback from the family. 650 00:38:02,670 --> 00:38:04,250 His aunt works for the county. 651 00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:07,300 -Then make it formal. -I'm probably gonna need a warrant. 652 00:38:07,390 --> 00:38:09,310 We might be able to help you with that. 653 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:17,400 Fuck! 654 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:23,280 Nancy's gonna kill me. We can't get a flight till Sunday. 655 00:38:27,110 --> 00:38:29,740 -Maybe this kid's like Kemper. -We have to get a room. 656 00:38:29,820 --> 00:38:32,910 I can take care of the room. We can turn this into an opportunity. 657 00:38:32,990 --> 00:38:36,200 -It could help with the Gonzales case. -I can't believe I'm stuck with you. 658 00:38:36,290 --> 00:38:38,170 -We can talk to Kemper. -No! 659 00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:40,300 -I'm gonna play golf. -Come with me. 660 00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:42,340 I'm not consulting with Ed Kemper. 661 00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:44,750 Not to consult. Just background. 662 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,390 When did his behavior escalate? 663 00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:48,510 You can't stay away from that motherfucker, can you? 664 00:38:48,590 --> 00:38:50,630 No, please. Don't say "motherfucker." 665 00:38:51,220 --> 00:38:53,510 You know that he'll respond to your seniority. 666 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,270 -You could really smoke him out. -No, not now. 667 00:38:56,890 --> 00:38:59,810 We're stuck here all weekend. What else are you gonna do? 668 00:39:01,190 --> 00:39:02,780 I said forget about it, man. 669 00:39:14,620 --> 00:39:18,420 So, you're the big boss, right? 670 00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:21,710 Well, I established the Behavioral Science Unit years ago, 671 00:39:21,790 --> 00:39:23,870 but Holden's come in with a lot of new ideas. 672 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,420 So Holden's the intrepid rookie investigator? 673 00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:30,430 Bill taught me everything I know about criminal behavior. 674 00:39:30,510 --> 00:39:33,390 Is that right? Well, let me ask you something, Bill. 675 00:39:33,470 --> 00:39:36,090 What do you think about Joseph Wambaugh? 676 00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:38,850 He knows Joe. Right, Bill? 677 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:40,510 Well... 678 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,310 Actually, he based a lot of that stuff on Bill. 679 00:39:44,940 --> 00:39:46,940 -No shit. -Uh-huh. 680 00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:49,410 Not the, uh, stories, 681 00:39:49,490 --> 00:39:52,700 but the psychological insights and the vernacular. 682 00:39:52,780 --> 00:39:53,650 Yeah. 683 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,870 That is fascinating. 684 00:39:56,370 --> 00:39:59,130 I sure would love to pick your brain sometime. 685 00:39:59,210 --> 00:40:01,090 Well, that's another life sentence right there. 686 00:40:01,170 --> 00:40:03,420 - - Maybe you could, uh... 687 00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:06,170 talk about your background a little bit with Bill. 688 00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:10,460 Maybe tell him the thing that you told me the other day 689 00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:11,760 about your mother. 690 00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:15,260 My mother. 691 00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:20,760 Well, you see, Bill, 692 00:40:20,850 --> 00:40:25,020 even as a child, I had kind of a rich fantasy life. 693 00:40:25,940 --> 00:40:30,190 As a teenager, I began by cutting up inanimate objects. 694 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,410 G.I. Joe. My sister's dolls. 695 00:40:32,490 --> 00:40:35,370 Ripping their heads off, cutting up the bodies. 696 00:40:35,870 --> 00:40:37,870 Mutilating them, if you will. 697 00:40:37,950 --> 00:40:40,700 You had fantasies of what, real women? 698 00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:41,840 Oh, yeah. 699 00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:45,960 And my mother would yell and scream at me, tell me I was sick. 700 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,040 She thought I was going to do something hideous one day. 701 00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:50,760 What did she think you were gonna do? 702 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,270 I guess rape my sister or something. 703 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:56,980 This is when I was ten years old. 704 00:40:58,220 --> 00:40:59,050 Nice. 705 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,520 Not exactly The Brady Bunch. 706 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,220 Why do you think she thought this? 707 00:41:03,310 --> 00:41:05,140 Because she was fucking nuts. 708 00:41:05,230 --> 00:41:07,950 -You didn't do anything to frighten her? - She frightened me. 709 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,190 She'd make me sleep on a dirty old mattress in the basement. 710 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,990 Lock the door. Ten years old. 711 00:41:15,070 --> 00:41:17,530 So then it became dogs and cats, strangling them, 712 00:41:17,620 --> 00:41:20,000 burying them in the backyard. 713 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,000 Hold on. Sorry. 714 00:41:25,330 --> 00:41:26,660 Just to vent. 715 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,510 You know what I'm saying? Classic displacement activity. 716 00:41:31,590 --> 00:41:35,890 Because it was my retreat from the insanity of the world. 717 00:41:35,970 --> 00:41:38,060 -Then, you see-- - Sorry. Wait a minute. 718 00:41:38,140 --> 00:41:39,140 Sorry, guys. 719 00:41:43,850 --> 00:41:45,390 Is that why your mother sent you away? 720 00:41:46,650 --> 00:41:49,280 In the end, I ran away to live with my father, 721 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,160 but he didn't want me either. 722 00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:54,690 So they packed me off to live with my grandma. 723 00:41:54,780 --> 00:41:56,660 She thought I was a freak. 724 00:41:56,740 --> 00:41:58,000 Is that why you shot her? 725 00:41:58,530 --> 00:42:02,280 Well, they were both very controlling, aggressive, matriarchal women. 726 00:42:02,370 --> 00:42:04,790 -Matriarchal? - Female-centric. 727 00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:06,830 Get that down. That's a big antecedent. 728 00:42:07,330 --> 00:42:08,370 What happened after that? 729 00:42:09,250 --> 00:42:11,460 I was put in a fucking mental institution. 730 00:42:12,090 --> 00:42:13,180 I was 15. 731 00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:16,100 I was 21 years old when I came out. 732 00:42:16,180 --> 00:42:20,020 All those years when other kids were having their sexual revolution, 733 00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:21,850 I was locked in a room. 734 00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:27,010 You remember the whole flower power, college girls into love and peace? 735 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:33,160 Physically, I wasn't impotent, but emotionally I was. 736 00:42:34,570 --> 00:42:39,160 Because of the way I was conditioned by Mom, right? Like you said. 737 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:41,000 -Conditioned? -Right. 738 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,500 You see, Bill, 739 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,340 I knew a week before she died I was gonna kill her. 740 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,830 She went out to a party, she got soused, she came home alone. 741 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,250 I asked her how her evening went. She just looked at me. 742 00:42:59,510 --> 00:43:01,760 She said, "For seven years." 743 00:43:02,390 --> 00:43:07,270 She said, "I haven't had sex with a man because of you, my murderous son." 744 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,520 So I got a claw hammer and I beat her to death. 745 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:18,620 Then I cut her head off. 746 00:43:23,580 --> 00:43:25,460 And I humiliated her. 747 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,760 And I said, "There. Now you've had sex." 748 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,300 If there's one thing I know, it's this: 749 00:43:42,010 --> 00:43:44,880 A mother should not scorn her own son. 750 00:43:46,060 --> 00:43:48,190 If a woman humiliates her little boy, 751 00:43:48,270 --> 00:43:52,690 he will become hostile, and violent, and debased. Period. 752 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,110 Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached our cruising altitude... 753 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,740 -I think we need to talk. -Now do you see? 754 00:44:09,830 --> 00:44:12,040 I need to speak to Shepard. Tell him what's going on. 755 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:13,040 It's too early. 756 00:44:13,130 --> 00:44:15,130 The longer we wait, the worse it's gonna be. 757 00:44:15,210 --> 00:44:18,210 -We'll be drowned in red tape. -And there's a reason for that. 758 00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:21,470 The FBI is a glacial bureaucracy, but it's highly effective. 759 00:44:21,550 --> 00:44:24,010 Kemper's in lockdown, what's he gonna do? 760 00:44:24,090 --> 00:44:26,340 Kemper is a gigantic blabbermouth. 761 00:44:26,430 --> 00:44:28,220 He's friends with all the prison guards. 762 00:44:28,310 --> 00:44:31,480 A federal agent is meeting with him, you think that hasn't reached the warden? 763 00:44:33,020 --> 00:44:35,430 A couple of months, that's all I need. 764 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,810 No. Because if we get censured, 765 00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:40,560 we're off work two weeks minimum, no appeal. 766 00:44:40,650 --> 00:44:43,030 And you can kiss goodbye to the Gonzales case. 767 00:44:43,110 --> 00:44:44,740 They'll never catch that guy. 768 00:44:50,410 --> 00:44:52,950 Did you tell a detective in Sacramento you would intercede 769 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,750 with the district attorney on behalf of the FBI? 770 00:44:56,340 --> 00:44:59,380 Some DA called me and asked why I had two agents in Sacramento. 771 00:44:59,460 --> 00:45:01,670 "Two goons," his exact words. 772 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,010 It's a strange case. 773 00:45:03,090 --> 00:45:05,800 The locals were struggling. We were trying to figure a way forward. 774 00:45:05,890 --> 00:45:07,350 What were you thinking? 775 00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:09,270 At the time, we deemed this of great urgency. 776 00:45:09,350 --> 00:45:10,690 The circumstances were unusual. 777 00:45:10,770 --> 00:45:13,690 Assault and battery? Since when does the FBI consult on that? 778 00:45:13,770 --> 00:45:14,820 Not even homicide. 779 00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:16,240 Unless you count a dog. 780 00:45:16,770 --> 00:45:18,850 Bill, the past three years I've heard you complain 781 00:45:18,940 --> 00:45:20,730 about how overworked you are with the Road School. 782 00:45:20,820 --> 00:45:22,030 I gave you your assistant, 783 00:45:22,110 --> 00:45:24,400 and this is how you choose to spend your time? 784 00:45:25,780 --> 00:45:28,320 I trust you understand my position on this. 785 00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:32,490 Is there anything else you want to tell me? 786 00:45:41,550 --> 00:45:44,640 I get back on Tuesday, if you want to pick me up from the airport. 787 00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:45,850 Sure, I'd love to. 788 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,680 -You should come with me sometime. -To Detroit? 789 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,440 See your old stomping grounds. Meet my mom. 790 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,110 - - 791 00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:56,530 Okay, good to know where we're at. 792 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,600 -No, I would love to meet your mom. -I said sometime. 793 00:45:59,690 --> 00:46:01,850 No, actually, it's something I would really enjoy. 794 00:46:01,940 --> 00:46:03,520 I meant eventually. 795 00:46:03,610 --> 00:46:05,940 I'm sure she's really, really lovely. 796 00:46:06,530 --> 00:46:08,650 Actually, she's kind of a bitch, 797 00:46:09,530 --> 00:46:11,410 especially when it comes to people I'm dating. 798 00:46:11,490 --> 00:46:12,320 Really? 799 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:14,960 But... I like you. 800 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,460 I might give you the secret to win her over. 801 00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:21,630 What might that be? 802 00:46:21,710 --> 00:46:25,380 Well, Mom doesn't care what kind of music you like, what kind of job you have, 803 00:46:25,470 --> 00:46:27,060 what kind of car you drive. 804 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,060 Instead, she'll ask you about your mother. 805 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,140 It'll seem like a perfectly innocent question, 806 00:46:34,220 --> 00:46:36,310 but she'll be watching you closely. 807 00:46:37,310 --> 00:46:39,980 If she thinks you love and respect your mom, 808 00:46:40,650 --> 00:46:43,360 she'll know that you'll treat her daughter the same way. 809 00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:47,480 That's actually shrewd. 810 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,830 ...hair group. It can't do anything about the hair... 811 00:46:50,910 --> 00:46:52,040 So... 812 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:54,370 do you like your mom? 813 00:46:56,910 --> 00:46:57,950 I do. 814 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,500 She's someone I really enjoy talking to. 815 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,960 I knew it. I knew you were a momma's boy. 816 00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:09,460 You should just come with me tomorrow. You've already passed the test. 817 00:47:09,930 --> 00:47:11,600 I couldn't even if I wanted to. 818 00:47:12,180 --> 00:47:14,270 Shepard doesn't want us leaving town. 819 00:47:14,350 --> 00:47:15,770 Why? What's happened? 820 00:47:16,270 --> 00:47:17,560 We-- Well... 821 00:47:18,190 --> 00:47:19,110 I... 822 00:47:19,850 --> 00:47:21,350 really fucked up. 823 00:47:21,940 --> 00:47:23,740 Ooh. You grounded? 824 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,910 When are they gonna start taking this whole thing seriously? 825 00:48:00,850 --> 00:48:02,520 -Hi. -Hi. 826 00:48:12,110 --> 00:48:15,610 -How do you know where I live? -Personnel gave me your address. 827 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,250 Let's go back to Shepard. 828 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,040 Tell him about Kemper, tell him what we've been doing. 829 00:48:30,130 --> 00:48:32,840 -You think he'll listen now? -Let's make it official. 830 00:48:32,930 --> 00:48:35,180 You don't want to wait till Sacramento blows over? 831 00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:37,760 No, I want to go back to Sacramento and fix it. 832 00:48:38,140 --> 00:48:40,640 If we fix it, Shepard might give us what we want. 833 00:48:42,310 --> 00:48:44,770 He's not stupid. He'll have to listen. 834 00:48:44,860 --> 00:48:47,150 Are you out of your fucking minds?! 835 00:48:47,230 --> 00:48:48,940 You interviewed Edmund Kemper? 836 00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:51,120 Not so much interviewed. More like a conversation. 837 00:48:51,190 --> 00:48:53,980 He said interesting things that turned out to be really useful. 838 00:48:54,070 --> 00:48:55,820 -What the fuck? -I just had this idea-- 839 00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:58,170 I don't want to hear your idea. I'm sick of your ideas. 840 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:00,780 It is not our job to commiserate with these people. 841 00:49:00,870 --> 00:49:03,700 It is our job to electrocute them. How long has this been going on? 842 00:49:03,790 --> 00:49:07,410 -Just when we were in Sacramento. -The conversations with Kemper shed light 843 00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:09,170 on things we've been exploring in the unit. 844 00:49:09,250 --> 00:49:11,670 There's a correlation with what we're finding at crime scenes. 845 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,010 It proves that we're on track. 846 00:49:13,090 --> 00:49:16,510 Proof the Federal Bureau of Investigation is on track after all these years? 847 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,190 Well, golly, what a relief. I am so pleased for us. 848 00:49:19,260 --> 00:49:21,390 -We're pleased too. -Don't smart-mouth me, Holden! 849 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,570 You fucked up the Gonzales situation, pissed off the Sacramento DA, 850 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,310 and you've been interviewing lifers in the state penitentiary. 851 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,610 Sir, the insights during these visits may help us identify 852 00:49:30,690 --> 00:49:33,440 the person responsible for the attacks in Sacramento and prevent others. 853 00:49:33,530 --> 00:49:36,160 Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Here's what it is. Burn your notes. 854 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,500 Don't speak to me about this anymore. Don't put it in any reports. You're done. 855 00:49:39,580 --> 00:49:40,620 Excuse me, sir. 856 00:49:41,830 --> 00:49:44,670 I truly believe there is a vein here that needs to be mined. 857 00:49:44,750 --> 00:49:47,340 Okay, kiddo. You're looking down the barrel. 858 00:49:47,830 --> 00:49:50,710 Three whole bags: censure, suspension, transfer. 859 00:50:05,810 --> 00:50:06,850 Pardon me. 860 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,490 Sir, permit me to speak. I've been doing this shit for seven years. 861 00:50:11,570 --> 00:50:13,990 I trained Holden because he was transferred to my department. 862 00:50:14,070 --> 00:50:15,870 He knows his criminal psychology. 863 00:50:15,950 --> 00:50:18,080 He's done his homework, worked his butt off, 864 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:19,580 and now I think he's onto something. 865 00:50:19,660 --> 00:50:21,830 Onto what? He made friends with the Coed Killer. 866 00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:24,370 If this is going to work, we need to talk to more subjects. 867 00:50:24,450 --> 00:50:27,330 More? No! What's next, Charles Manson? When's he booked for? 868 00:50:27,420 --> 00:50:29,050 We were thinking June. 869 00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:30,830 I think it's right. 870 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,680 We need to use whatever resource-- 871 00:50:32,750 --> 00:50:34,880 Resource, my ass! What's the matter, bored with golf? 872 00:50:34,970 --> 00:50:37,640 California jails are full of thrill killers and lust murderers. 873 00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:40,640 -And we put them there, that's our job. -Dying and rotting on the vine. 874 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:43,220 Cry me a river, Holden. All the wasted potential. 875 00:50:43,310 --> 00:50:44,440 It is wasted potential, sir. 876 00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:46,610 -We could be using these people. -Using how? 877 00:50:46,690 --> 00:50:48,820 -Their knowledge and insight. -Of what? 878 00:50:48,900 --> 00:50:50,030 - Themselves. -Whoselves?! 879 00:50:50,110 --> 00:50:52,570 Then we know what we're talking about when we speak to other law enforcement. 880 00:50:52,650 --> 00:50:55,370 -Can you make him shut up? -I have not been able to, sir. 881 00:50:56,950 --> 00:51:00,580 How do we get ahead of crazy if we don't know how crazy thinks? 882 00:51:10,540 --> 00:51:12,000 I like you, Bill. 883 00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:15,090 I don't particularly like him, but I like you. 884 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,340 Okay, you may continue with your little sideshow. 885 00:51:20,430 --> 00:51:22,480 However, no one can know about it. Clear? 886 00:51:23,310 --> 00:51:24,560 You will relocate yourselves 887 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,110 to the basement beneath Behavioral Sciences, 888 00:51:27,180 --> 00:51:29,310 reporting directly and exclusively to me. 889 00:51:29,390 --> 00:51:31,020 The basement? I'm 44 years old. 890 00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:34,350 You may dedicate ten hours of your 50-hour work week to this. 891 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,940 If I deem any aspect of it to be unwarranted, unnecessary, or unsavory, 892 00:51:38,030 --> 00:51:40,200 I will end it. Do you both understand? 893 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,190 Yes. 894 00:51:42,370 --> 00:51:43,290 And thank you, sir. 895 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:45,250 Thank you, sir. 896 00:52:04,100 --> 00:52:06,690 [Talking Heads' "Psycho Killer" playing] 897 00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:31,710 ♪ I can't seem to face up to the facts ♪ 898 00:52:32,250 --> 00:52:35,420 ♪ I'm tense and nervous And I can't relax ♪ 899 00:52:36,380 --> 00:52:39,510 ♪ I can't sleep 'cause my bed's on fire ♪ 900 00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:43,770 ♪ Don't touch me, I'm a real live wire ♪ 901 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,730 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 902 00:52:47,810 --> 00:52:51,650 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 903 00:52:52,060 --> 00:52:57,230 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪ 904 00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,320 ♪ Oh-ho-ho ♪ 905 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,190 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 906 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,150 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 907 00:53:07,660 --> 00:53:13,170 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪ 908 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,980 ♪ You start a conversation You can't even finish it ♪ 909 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,350 ♪ You're talking a lot But you're not saying anything ♪ 910 00:53:34,690 --> 00:53:37,740 ♪ When I have nothing to say My lips are sealed ♪ 911 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,650 ♪ Say something once, why say it again? ♪ 912 00:53:42,860 --> 00:53:46,030 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 913 00:53:46,110 --> 00:53:49,950 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 914 00:53:50,290 --> 00:53:55,880 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪ 915 00:53:56,330 --> 00:53:57,750 ♪ Oh-ho-ho ♪ 916 00:53:58,540 --> 00:54:01,460 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 917 00:54:01,550 --> 00:54:05,640 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 918 00:54:06,090 --> 00:54:11,680 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪ 919 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,940 ♪ We are vain and we are blind ♪ 920 00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:32,780 ♪ I hate people when they're not polite ♪ 921 00:54:33,540 --> 00:54:36,670 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 922 00:54:36,750 --> 00:54:40,550 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 923 00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:46,670 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪