1 00:00:21,604 --> 00:00:22,647 May I help you? 2 00:00:23,356 --> 00:00:25,150 Yes. Thank you. 3 00:00:25,233 --> 00:00:27,235 I need some replacement electrical tape. 4 00:00:27,569 --> 00:00:30,280 Okay. You bring me the empty and I'll get you a new roll. 5 00:00:30,363 --> 00:00:31,239 Empty what? 6 00:00:32,198 --> 00:00:35,035 The cardboard core that's left when you run out of tape. 7 00:00:36,077 --> 00:00:37,412 What? Why? 8 00:00:38,204 --> 00:00:39,622 That's the way we do it. 9 00:00:40,457 --> 00:00:43,376 I can't give you a new one until we get the old. 10 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:44,377 Are you kidding me? 11 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,130 No. 12 00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:51,092 Whatever, Dennis. 13 00:02:40,743 --> 00:02:43,663 This is your captain speaking. New York City to the Bay Area... 14 00:02:43,746 --> 00:02:46,833 Just, hey, do me a favor. Don't mention this to me ever again. 15 00:02:46,916 --> 00:02:49,586 - I'm going to. - It's the insanest idea I've ever heard. 16 00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:51,629 - I'm going to, Bill. - We have a job to do. 17 00:02:51,713 --> 00:02:54,799 - We are here to teach. - Chino, California Medical, 18 00:02:54,883 --> 00:02:57,927 California Men's Colony, Norco, Soledad, San Quentin... 19 00:02:58,011 --> 00:03:01,180 If you'd said to me, "I want to become a Beach Boy, take up surfing, 20 00:03:01,264 --> 00:03:03,433 - sit around smoking the vibes." - Folsom. 21 00:03:03,516 --> 00:03:05,226 Or, "I want to make it in the movies. 22 00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:07,729 Gonna get me a walk-up in West Hollywood and a Pekingese." 23 00:03:07,812 --> 00:03:10,440 Manson is 30 miles away in Vacaville. 24 00:03:10,523 --> 00:03:12,108 A hop, skip, and a jump. 25 00:03:12,483 --> 00:03:14,819 - You really wanna meet Charlie Manson? - Why not? 26 00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:16,696 - Sir. - Swing by and say hi. 27 00:03:16,779 --> 00:03:17,697 Yeah. 28 00:03:18,615 --> 00:03:19,532 Thank you. 29 00:03:21,409 --> 00:03:23,953 Nobody wants to hear about that crazy motherfucker. 30 00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:25,121 You know this. 31 00:03:25,204 --> 00:03:28,124 Welcome to San Francisco. Please remain seated... 32 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,878 Besides, when are you gonna find time for these fireside chats, Holden? 33 00:03:34,297 --> 00:03:35,340 I'll figure it out. 34 00:03:39,219 --> 00:03:41,012 Nobody can talk to Manson. 35 00:03:41,095 --> 00:03:43,806 Tom Snyder's been trying to interview him for years. 36 00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:46,142 We're the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 37 00:03:46,226 --> 00:03:48,436 What if his civil rights are being violated? 38 00:03:48,895 --> 00:03:50,438 Please just get in the car. 39 00:04:11,834 --> 00:04:15,255 In California every year, 35 percent of murders go unsolved. 40 00:04:15,964 --> 00:04:18,675 That's more unsolved murders than in any other state. 41 00:04:18,758 --> 00:04:20,510 It's partly due to geography. 42 00:04:20,593 --> 00:04:22,720 In the woods, in the mountains, 43 00:04:22,804 --> 00:04:24,847 - ravines, hiking trails... - You can't get to Manson, 44 00:04:24,931 --> 00:04:27,350 even if you're a fed. 45 00:04:27,433 --> 00:04:29,852 CMF treats him like a fucking unicorn. 46 00:04:29,936 --> 00:04:33,273 No one needs to think about psychology more than the people in Santa Cruz. 47 00:04:34,148 --> 00:04:37,986 - In a homicide situation... - If you go to Vacaville, meet Ed Kemper. 48 00:04:38,069 --> 00:04:41,948 - What happened that triggered him? - Give me that name again. 49 00:04:42,031 --> 00:04:45,535 Kemper. Ed Kemper. They call him the "Coed Killer." 50 00:04:45,618 --> 00:04:48,997 What about when even the killer doesn't know why he behaved as he did? 51 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,833 You can't miss the guy. He's like six foot nine, 285 pounds. 52 00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:53,501 - Whoa. King-size. - Super king. 53 00:04:53,584 --> 00:04:57,297 - Violent murder used to be... - Killed a bunch of coeds in Santa Cruz. 54 00:04:57,380 --> 00:05:00,550 Six teenage girls, chops their heads off, has sexual intercourse with the corpses. 55 00:05:00,633 --> 00:05:02,844 - Oh... - Kills his mom with a claw hammer, 56 00:05:02,927 --> 00:05:04,804 has sexual intercourse with her head. 57 00:05:04,887 --> 00:05:06,931 - Bullshit. - In her mouth. 58 00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:08,474 - No. - Yeah. 59 00:05:08,558 --> 00:05:11,644 When strangers murder strangers for no apparent reason... 60 00:05:11,728 --> 00:05:14,647 He was in a mental institution right up until then too. 61 00:05:14,731 --> 00:05:17,817 He's a total whack job. He was murdering his grandparents at the age of 15, 62 00:05:17,900 --> 00:05:21,446 but then he manages to convince everyone that he's completely rehabilitated. 63 00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:22,405 Oh, my God. 64 00:05:22,488 --> 00:05:25,616 In many of these crimes, the motives are not just obscure... 65 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,703 Jim Conor knew him real well. I'll introduce you. 66 00:05:28,786 --> 00:05:30,121 - Really? - Yeah. 67 00:05:30,204 --> 00:05:32,832 - ...borderline unfathomable. - Thank you. 68 00:05:33,791 --> 00:05:36,377 Used to call him Big Ed. Everybody here knew him. 69 00:05:36,961 --> 00:05:40,715 - Was he an informant? - No, but he was smart. He was funny. 70 00:05:41,257 --> 00:05:45,261 He used to watch all the cop shows on TV. Crazy about Wambaugh and Police Story. 71 00:05:45,344 --> 00:05:47,764 He wanted to be CHP, but it didn't work out. 72 00:05:47,847 --> 00:05:50,683 He would joke that they could conceal his psychiatric record 73 00:05:50,767 --> 00:05:51,934 but not his fat ass. 74 00:05:52,602 --> 00:05:54,687 Stupid shit like that. 75 00:05:55,354 --> 00:05:57,648 Guys like him always want to be in uniform. 76 00:05:57,732 --> 00:06:00,151 Losers. Losers are drawn to authority. 77 00:06:00,234 --> 00:06:02,570 Nobody wants to admit it, but losers are useful. 78 00:06:02,653 --> 00:06:04,530 - Why? - They're nosy. 79 00:06:04,614 --> 00:06:08,284 They know what everybody else is up to. And they're resentful, a lot of 'em. 80 00:06:08,367 --> 00:06:10,703 - They always got a raw deal. - Ed was a busybody. 81 00:06:11,287 --> 00:06:13,206 And this was before you knew about the killings? 82 00:06:13,289 --> 00:06:16,042 Oh, we knew about 'em, just hadn't connected them with him. 83 00:06:16,125 --> 00:06:19,170 - He kept asking about them, though. - And you didn't suspect him? 84 00:06:21,881 --> 00:06:22,882 What? 85 00:06:22,965 --> 00:06:25,051 "What?" You liked the guy. 86 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:29,764 - Let's say he was a friendly nuisance. - Oh, come on. 87 00:06:29,847 --> 00:06:32,600 - He was hard not to like. - So you were the arresting officer? 88 00:06:32,683 --> 00:06:35,686 In the end, he lit out to Pueblo, Colorado, 89 00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:37,939 expecting there to be some kind of manhunt. 90 00:06:38,439 --> 00:06:42,360 When nobody came, he got sick of waiting and decided to turn himself in. 91 00:06:43,027 --> 00:06:45,488 Called from a pay phone. Confessed! 92 00:06:46,197 --> 00:06:49,283 We thought he was bullshitting. I drove him all the way back. 93 00:06:49,367 --> 00:06:53,287 He wouldn't stop yakking. Going into forensic detail. 94 00:06:53,371 --> 00:06:54,872 I thought I hit the jackpot. 95 00:06:54,956 --> 00:06:58,292 After a few hours, I'm like, "Oh, God, please. Enough!" 96 00:06:58,376 --> 00:07:00,086 You think Kemper would talk to us? 97 00:07:00,878 --> 00:07:02,421 Try stopping him. 98 00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:03,673 Who's "us," kemosabe? 99 00:07:08,052 --> 00:07:10,179 David Berkowitz, 24. 100 00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:13,850 Spent his days sorting letters at the post office so he could... 101 00:07:13,933 --> 00:07:14,767 What? 102 00:07:15,351 --> 00:07:17,019 Really, what are you expecting to learn? 103 00:07:17,603 --> 00:07:19,981 A killer who can't stop talking? It's a gift. 104 00:07:20,064 --> 00:07:21,023 A gift, huh? 105 00:07:21,691 --> 00:07:23,901 He made a severed head perform fellatio on him. 106 00:07:24,610 --> 00:07:27,363 His third victim was a 15-year-old child, Holden. 107 00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:30,491 You don't want to talk? 108 00:07:30,575 --> 00:07:33,536 So, basically, you just got me out here to carry your slide projector? 109 00:07:33,619 --> 00:07:36,706 To help with the workload, yeah. The work we're sanctioned to do. 110 00:07:36,789 --> 00:07:39,792 Kemper doesn't interest you or is beneath you somehow? 111 00:07:39,876 --> 00:07:40,960 A little of both. 112 00:07:41,586 --> 00:07:44,088 - This is the man... - Think the tie's too much? 113 00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:45,923 What about the suit? 114 00:07:46,007 --> 00:07:48,634 Anybody finds out you're a fed, there'll be a riot. 115 00:07:48,801 --> 00:07:51,137 Shepard finds out you've been interviewing the Coed Killer 116 00:07:51,220 --> 00:07:52,847 as a side project, he'll flip his shit. 117 00:07:52,930 --> 00:07:55,475 It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. 118 00:07:55,558 --> 00:07:57,810 Okay. 119 00:07:59,145 --> 00:08:02,690 If you're gonna go in, you need to go in stone goddamn cold, 120 00:08:02,773 --> 00:08:05,776 take him by surprise, get the fuck out as quick as possible. 121 00:08:05,860 --> 00:08:06,694 Good advice. 122 00:08:06,777 --> 00:08:10,573 Straight in there, don't phone, don't give them a chance to ask around. 123 00:08:10,656 --> 00:08:11,741 I'm a buddy of Jim Conor's. 124 00:08:12,325 --> 00:08:15,661 "Jim Conor reached out," you bet. "He sends his regards." 125 00:08:15,745 --> 00:08:17,914 "I stopped by the Jury Room for a drink." 126 00:08:17,997 --> 00:08:20,583 "The guys all say..." Blah, blah, blah. 127 00:08:20,666 --> 00:08:23,294 - "Can I call you Big Ed?" - I wouldn't mention the killings. 128 00:08:23,377 --> 00:08:25,546 You're not there because he's a necrophile degenerate. 129 00:08:25,630 --> 00:08:27,965 You're there because he's... fascinating. 130 00:08:28,049 --> 00:08:29,759 How do I not mention the killings? 131 00:08:30,384 --> 00:08:31,427 Just take it slow. 132 00:08:33,346 --> 00:08:35,806 - What are you doing? - Just in case. 133 00:08:35,890 --> 00:08:37,850 They're not gonna let you in with a sidearm. 134 00:08:37,934 --> 00:08:40,770 The guy is six foot nine, weighs 300 pounds. 135 00:08:40,853 --> 00:08:42,939 - That's right. - So what's he gonna do? 136 00:08:43,022 --> 00:08:45,733 He's gonna take the fucking thing away, kill you with it, 137 00:08:45,816 --> 00:08:47,902 and then have sex with your face. 138 00:09:03,334 --> 00:09:04,377 Hold it, guys. 139 00:09:09,715 --> 00:09:11,968 - You're clear. - I don't want to spoil your fun. 140 00:09:12,051 --> 00:09:13,844 I'm good. Nine is fine. 141 00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:15,846 You could come. Take notes. 142 00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:18,182 You take notes, I'll help you write 'em up. 143 00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:19,809 You're really gonna go golfing 144 00:09:19,892 --> 00:09:22,937 while I glean profound insights from the Coed Killer? 145 00:09:23,020 --> 00:09:24,981 - It's my day off. - You're gonna be sorry. 146 00:09:25,064 --> 00:09:26,482 No. You're gonna be sorry, Holden, 147 00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:29,527 when he decides you're using him and there's nothing in it for good old Ed. 148 00:09:29,610 --> 00:09:30,987 - I think there is. - What? 149 00:09:31,529 --> 00:09:34,949 He's going to be part of something instead of rotting inside a cell. 150 00:09:35,032 --> 00:09:37,368 Part of what? We're not even here. 151 00:09:40,246 --> 00:09:41,080 All right. 152 00:09:47,712 --> 00:09:50,047 I must respectfully ask for your badge and firearm. 153 00:09:53,217 --> 00:09:54,468 Yes, sir. 154 00:10:02,184 --> 00:10:04,562 In addition, I have some paperwork for you to sign. 155 00:10:04,645 --> 00:10:08,232 A disclaimer that states in the event of your death, or if you're taken hostage, 156 00:10:08,316 --> 00:10:11,235 attacked, assaulted, or otherwise abused within the correctional facility, 157 00:10:11,319 --> 00:10:14,572 the United States government forswears any and all liability. 158 00:10:15,906 --> 00:10:18,701 Oh. Okay. 159 00:10:47,313 --> 00:10:48,648 Kiss my ass! 160 00:10:59,408 --> 00:11:01,494 Hey, boy, bring that shit over here! 161 00:11:01,577 --> 00:11:02,578 Bitch! 162 00:11:45,496 --> 00:11:47,540 Can we unlock the... 163 00:11:47,623 --> 00:11:49,500 No, those stay on. They're regulation. 164 00:11:50,668 --> 00:11:53,003 I think that's gonna be a little awkward. 165 00:11:54,964 --> 00:11:56,132 You're FBI. 166 00:12:03,806 --> 00:12:06,392 - Okay. You're all set. - Thanks, Jim. 167 00:12:06,475 --> 00:12:08,227 - I'll see ya later. - Later. 168 00:12:16,485 --> 00:12:17,570 Holden, right? 169 00:12:20,406 --> 00:12:22,283 - Edward. - Edmund. 170 00:12:22,366 --> 00:12:24,869 - Oh, I'm sorry. I assumed that it was... - Are you tired? 171 00:12:24,952 --> 00:12:26,287 How could you tell? 172 00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:28,831 It's a beautiful drive, but it's long. 173 00:12:30,499 --> 00:12:33,335 Edmund was my mom's idea, so you can call me Ed. 174 00:12:36,589 --> 00:12:37,631 Sure thing. 175 00:12:39,842 --> 00:12:41,343 So how can I help? 176 00:12:42,928 --> 00:12:44,763 Okay. Um... 177 00:12:46,390 --> 00:12:50,186 I'm an instructor working out of the Behavioral Science Unit at Quantico, 178 00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:51,437 and I had this idea... 179 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:52,980 Have you had breakfast? 180 00:12:53,063 --> 00:12:55,483 Can I get you something? You want a sandwich? 181 00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:58,861 - No, I'm okay. - What kind of sandwich you like? 182 00:13:00,154 --> 00:13:04,200 - Um... I'm good. - You want an egg salad sandwich? 183 00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:08,120 - I'm fine. Really. - I'll get us an egg salad sandwich. 184 00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:10,915 I can get almost anything you want from the canteen. 185 00:13:16,212 --> 00:13:17,213 Okay. 186 00:13:18,756 --> 00:13:21,383 - Do you have tuna? - Oh, the egg salad's better. 187 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,094 - Hey, Jim? - Yeah, Ed? 188 00:13:24,178 --> 00:13:27,389 Have you seen Mitch this morning? You think you can find him for me? 189 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:33,521 - Good, huh? - Mmm! 190 00:13:34,063 --> 00:13:35,397 These guys are great. 191 00:13:35,481 --> 00:13:38,776 I've been here five years. We just clicked right off the bat. 192 00:13:40,110 --> 00:13:41,320 You like the guards? 193 00:13:42,488 --> 00:13:44,156 Well, they like me. I'm polite. 194 00:13:44,782 --> 00:13:49,870 You know, I heard that you used to drink at the Jury Room. 195 00:13:50,412 --> 00:13:52,164 You mean in Santa Cruz? 196 00:13:52,665 --> 00:13:54,917 Yeah, those are good guys. 197 00:13:55,834 --> 00:13:58,587 I applied to California Highway Patrol. 198 00:13:58,671 --> 00:14:03,175 My mom spoke to the cops to get my psychiatric record expunged. 199 00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:07,429 Turns out my record didn't bother them at all, I was just too tall. 200 00:14:07,513 --> 00:14:11,725 Too tall? I've heard of being too short, but... 201 00:14:13,936 --> 00:14:14,937 What? 202 00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:16,897 Nothing. It just seems... 203 00:14:16,981 --> 00:14:18,566 You think they lied to me? 204 00:14:20,651 --> 00:14:21,485 No. 205 00:14:22,945 --> 00:14:26,115 Well, cops like me because they can talk to me... 206 00:14:27,032 --> 00:14:29,952 more than they can talk to their own wives, some of them. 207 00:14:30,035 --> 00:14:31,579 Really? What do you talk about? 208 00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:33,581 You know, books, movies. 209 00:14:33,664 --> 00:14:36,584 I watch all the cop shows on TV. 210 00:14:36,667 --> 00:14:37,793 Do you know, uh... 211 00:14:39,211 --> 00:14:42,131 Joseph Wambaugh, Police Story? You ever watch that? 212 00:14:42,214 --> 00:14:43,465 - Huge fan. - Oh. 213 00:14:43,549 --> 00:14:46,552 I got a lot of my insights right there. 214 00:14:46,635 --> 00:14:47,511 Really? 215 00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,180 What kind of insights? 216 00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:52,141 Well, so, for example, with cops, 217 00:14:52,224 --> 00:14:54,810 I would not allow myself to walk into a trap 218 00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:58,689 because I knew exactly how their minds worked from watching Wambaugh. 219 00:14:58,772 --> 00:15:00,524 What kind of trap are you talking about? 220 00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:02,985 The classic is talking too much about the crimes. 221 00:15:03,068 --> 00:15:04,111 Over-interest. 222 00:15:04,653 --> 00:15:06,488 You have to remain casual. 223 00:15:07,072 --> 00:15:09,575 They tried everything to trick me. I'm too savvy. 224 00:15:09,658 --> 00:15:11,619 I don't fucking talk, period. 225 00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,539 Really? That's interesting. 226 00:15:15,623 --> 00:15:16,457 So... 227 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,543 you had this idea? 228 00:15:19,627 --> 00:15:20,753 Yes. Uh, yes. 229 00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:24,173 It's kind of, uh... 230 00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:30,012 Well, it's more of a research thing. 231 00:15:30,095 --> 00:15:31,096 Research. 232 00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:33,349 Just a series of interviews, 233 00:15:33,891 --> 00:15:35,100 chatting with... 234 00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:39,438 individuals not unlike yourself. 235 00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:42,066 We're just talking? 236 00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:45,945 I don't get to go someplace, do a bunch of tests? 237 00:15:46,028 --> 00:15:48,238 No. Yeah, no tests. Just right here. 238 00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:49,615 Why? 239 00:15:50,199 --> 00:15:52,493 Well, because I believe it could be useful. 240 00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:55,371 Talking about what? 241 00:15:55,913 --> 00:15:57,206 Well, I don't know. 242 00:15:59,291 --> 00:16:00,209 Your... 243 00:16:01,293 --> 00:16:03,379 behavior, I guess. 244 00:16:05,381 --> 00:16:06,632 If you want to, that is. 245 00:16:06,715 --> 00:16:10,386 We don't have to talk about anything at all if you don't want to. 246 00:16:11,845 --> 00:16:13,722 Why are you so tense? 247 00:16:13,806 --> 00:16:14,723 Hm? 248 00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:16,976 You're tense, right now. 249 00:16:17,601 --> 00:16:19,061 No, I'm not tense. 250 00:16:21,397 --> 00:16:24,108 Well, I'll be honest, I don't get many visitors. 251 00:16:24,191 --> 00:16:27,486 When I do, you think they want to talk about this shit? 252 00:16:28,028 --> 00:16:31,115 Fuck no. It's like if you worked at a slaughterhouse with livestock, 253 00:16:31,198 --> 00:16:33,033 real conversation stopper. 254 00:16:33,617 --> 00:16:34,451 Did you? 255 00:16:34,535 --> 00:16:36,328 No, I'm just saying... 256 00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:39,790 People who hunt other people for a vocation, 257 00:16:39,873 --> 00:16:42,751 all we want to talk about is what it's like. 258 00:16:43,252 --> 00:16:46,255 The shit that went down. The entire fucked-upness of it. 259 00:16:47,297 --> 00:16:48,465 Right, sure. 260 00:16:49,466 --> 00:16:52,094 It's not easy. Butchering people is hard work. 261 00:16:52,803 --> 00:16:56,223 Physically and mentally. I don't think people realize. 262 00:16:56,306 --> 00:16:57,599 You need to vent. 263 00:16:59,727 --> 00:17:01,353 What are you writing down? 264 00:17:01,437 --> 00:17:05,733 Oh, I just think it's an interesting choice of words, "vocation." 265 00:17:07,276 --> 00:17:08,861 Well, what would you call it? 266 00:17:09,987 --> 00:17:12,781 A hobby? I'd say it's more than that. 267 00:17:13,449 --> 00:17:17,619 Look at the consequences. The stakes are very high. 268 00:17:21,582 --> 00:17:24,043 Is this helping? Are you getting what you came for? 269 00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:25,544 - I think. - Good. 270 00:17:25,627 --> 00:17:27,546 Can I... Could I just ask you something? 271 00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:31,050 Do you believe that prison can help you? 272 00:17:31,633 --> 00:17:32,634 Are you kidding? 273 00:17:33,177 --> 00:17:35,637 You think you shouldn't be in prison? 274 00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:39,683 I think it's shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, somewhat. 275 00:17:40,184 --> 00:17:42,811 What do you think the state should do with you instead? 276 00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:46,398 Well, Holden, a lobotomy's not out of the question. 277 00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:47,691 Lobotomy? 278 00:17:47,775 --> 00:17:49,234 Like Frances Farmer. 279 00:17:49,735 --> 00:17:52,279 - You remember Frances Farmer? - No. 280 00:17:52,362 --> 00:17:54,782 I loved Frances Farmer. She was an actress. 281 00:17:55,199 --> 00:17:57,034 They lobotomized her in the '50s. 282 00:17:57,117 --> 00:18:02,748 She was very smart and intense... very misunderstood. She was a lot like me. 283 00:18:02,831 --> 00:18:05,334 You don't think you could benefit from psychiatry? 284 00:18:05,626 --> 00:18:08,629 I already did all that in the institution. 285 00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:11,507 It didn't take. 286 00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:16,011 For me, I think surgery might give me the best chance. 287 00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:19,473 And if surgery doesn't... take, 288 00:18:19,932 --> 00:18:24,686 in this modern society, what do we do with the Ed Kempers of the world? 289 00:18:25,312 --> 00:18:27,106 Well, isn't that your department? 290 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,735 From your perspective. 291 00:18:37,324 --> 00:18:38,700 Death by torture? 292 00:18:58,011 --> 00:19:00,681 So what are you not telling me? 293 00:19:01,265 --> 00:19:03,684 Why do you keep looking at me like that? 294 00:19:03,767 --> 00:19:05,936 - Like what? - Funny. 295 00:19:06,019 --> 00:19:08,981 You keep looking at me like I'm a specimen. 296 00:19:10,732 --> 00:19:12,317 Well, to be honest... 297 00:19:14,069 --> 00:19:16,321 It's just you seem like a nice, ordinary... 298 00:19:17,614 --> 00:19:21,160 It's difficult for me to square you with what you're in prison for. 299 00:19:22,452 --> 00:19:23,370 Oh. 300 00:19:24,246 --> 00:19:25,289 Well, sure. 301 00:19:28,083 --> 00:19:31,336 I was a regular guy most of my life, 302 00:19:31,420 --> 00:19:33,755 with a nice home, nice suburb. 303 00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:35,841 I had pets, I went to a good school. 304 00:19:35,924 --> 00:19:39,970 I was a thoughtful, educated, well brought up young person. 305 00:19:40,053 --> 00:19:41,805 There's no question about it. 306 00:19:42,681 --> 00:19:43,515 But... 307 00:19:45,184 --> 00:19:46,685 at the same time... 308 00:19:47,561 --> 00:19:51,732 I was living a vile, depraved, entirely parallel other life 309 00:19:51,815 --> 00:19:55,986 filled with debased violence and mayhem, and fear, and death. 310 00:19:56,069 --> 00:19:57,029 Well... 311 00:19:57,821 --> 00:20:02,618 it certainly seems to me like you had your own unusual... 312 00:20:03,994 --> 00:20:06,038 An unusual MO. Oh, sure. 313 00:20:06,121 --> 00:20:08,582 Well, I was gonna say... 314 00:20:09,249 --> 00:20:10,292 signature. 315 00:20:11,001 --> 00:20:12,628 An oeuvre, if you will. 316 00:20:13,253 --> 00:20:14,755 You could study it. 317 00:20:16,924 --> 00:20:19,134 You can spell oeuvre, can't you, Holden? 318 00:20:21,553 --> 00:20:23,764 You know, there's a lot more like me. 319 00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:27,267 Do you think so? 320 00:20:28,185 --> 00:20:29,895 People that kill in sequence like you did? 321 00:20:29,978 --> 00:20:31,980 - Sequence? - One right after another. 322 00:20:32,522 --> 00:20:33,607 At regular intervals. 323 00:20:33,690 --> 00:20:35,234 I've just been calling them... 324 00:20:36,193 --> 00:20:37,819 "sequence killers"... 325 00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:39,655 if you will. 326 00:20:40,113 --> 00:20:42,699 - How many would you say? - Well... 327 00:20:44,785 --> 00:20:46,411 it would be a guess, 328 00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:48,956 but I'd say right now... 329 00:20:51,166 --> 00:20:53,877 North America, more than 35. 330 00:20:53,961 --> 00:20:55,003 Thirty-five? 331 00:20:55,087 --> 00:20:59,132 But you're never gonna find them if they don't want you to. Not even close. 332 00:21:00,467 --> 00:21:01,802 That can't be right. 333 00:21:01,885 --> 00:21:05,097 Well, Holden, I'm not an expert. I'm not an authority. 334 00:21:05,681 --> 00:21:08,809 I'm just an extremely accomplished murderer 335 00:21:08,892 --> 00:21:12,646 who spent my adult life successfully evading capture... 336 00:21:13,689 --> 00:21:17,276 until I gave myself up because I despaired of ever being caught. 337 00:21:19,194 --> 00:21:20,779 So take it or leave it. 338 00:21:22,239 --> 00:21:23,490 What do you want from me? 339 00:21:26,743 --> 00:21:28,036 I have no idea. 340 00:21:28,829 --> 00:21:32,249 His oeuvre? What the fuck? He's Stanley Kubrick? 341 00:21:32,332 --> 00:21:34,668 He was extremely talkative. 342 00:21:34,751 --> 00:21:37,963 He likes talking to cops. He's lonely. He could do it all day. 343 00:21:38,046 --> 00:21:40,549 He's not some frenzied thrill killer, Bill. 344 00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:42,926 I think we need to face that. 345 00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:46,680 He chopped off women's heads and had sex with their corpses. 346 00:21:46,763 --> 00:21:48,807 If that's not frenzied, I don't know what is. 347 00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:50,058 He is so articulate. 348 00:21:50,642 --> 00:21:54,604 He's meticulous and highly intelligent. 349 00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:59,401 Yeah, he meticulously chose small, young, female prey who couldn't fight back. 350 00:21:59,901 --> 00:22:01,028 Animal cunning. 351 00:22:01,111 --> 00:22:04,197 He's self-aware and objective. Isn't that highly unusual? 352 00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:05,824 He's saying everything you want to hear, 353 00:22:05,907 --> 00:22:08,285 just like he did with the shrinks in the institution. 354 00:22:08,368 --> 00:22:11,121 He knew just enough to talk his way out, then went hunting. 355 00:22:11,204 --> 00:22:14,082 - Don't be stupid about this. - What makes you so sure I'm being stupid? 356 00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:15,500 I know these fuckers. 357 00:22:15,584 --> 00:22:18,420 It's only a matter of time before he hits you up for privileges. 358 00:22:18,503 --> 00:22:21,340 - Next, he's complaining to the warden... - Come with me next weekend. 359 00:22:21,423 --> 00:22:24,801 - See for yourself. - No, I'm not gonna do that. 360 00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:26,470 You're just going to play golf? 361 00:22:27,304 --> 00:22:30,223 It helps me think clearly. You might want to try it. 362 00:22:32,934 --> 00:22:35,979 - Oh, yeah. Up a little. - Uh-huh. 363 00:22:38,231 --> 00:22:41,485 - Over a little. Left. - My left or your left? 364 00:22:41,568 --> 00:22:42,611 My left. 365 00:22:45,822 --> 00:22:46,698 This okay? 366 00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:48,241 It's fine. What's wrong? 367 00:22:48,325 --> 00:22:50,619 - You want a break? - Why would I want a break? 368 00:22:50,702 --> 00:22:52,621 - That's not how it works. - All right. 369 00:22:52,871 --> 00:22:56,124 You want me to throw in something? Play with your nipples? 370 00:22:56,208 --> 00:22:57,959 - Why? - Move it along. 371 00:22:58,043 --> 00:23:00,670 - You're doing great. Just stop stopping. - Okay. 372 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,133 He knows more about lust murder 373 00:23:05,217 --> 00:23:07,511 than the whole FBI Behavioral Science Unit. 374 00:23:07,594 --> 00:23:10,514 - We should put him on the payroll. - Would the FBI ever do that? 375 00:23:10,597 --> 00:23:11,640 Doubtful. 376 00:23:11,723 --> 00:23:14,601 Everyone's freaked out that Berkowitz might sell his life story. 377 00:23:14,684 --> 00:23:17,437 New York State is moving to make that sort of thing illegal. 378 00:23:17,521 --> 00:23:19,606 It'd be awful for the families of the victims. 379 00:23:19,689 --> 00:23:21,316 - What can I get you? - Hi. 380 00:23:21,399 --> 00:23:23,777 Uh, can I get two eggs over medium, 381 00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:26,947 home-fried potatoes, and wheat toast with grape jelly? 382 00:23:27,030 --> 00:23:28,865 - And for you? - Uh... 383 00:23:28,949 --> 00:23:31,660 - I'll just have an Ed salad sandwich... - A what? 384 00:23:31,743 --> 00:23:35,497 - An egg salad sandwich. Thank you. - Holden, you don't even like egg salad. 385 00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:38,333 - Thank you. - Right. Um... 386 00:23:38,416 --> 00:23:40,001 I'll just have a Denver omelet. 387 00:23:41,419 --> 00:23:44,548 You've got mention-itis. You cannot stop mentioning him. 388 00:23:44,631 --> 00:23:47,426 Think of how much we can learn from a guy like Kemper. 389 00:23:48,176 --> 00:23:50,095 He called it a vocation. 390 00:23:50,178 --> 00:23:51,096 - Killing women? - Yeah. 391 00:23:51,179 --> 00:23:53,890 Jesus. How do you wrap your mind around that? 392 00:23:54,975 --> 00:23:56,434 Couldn't attract them. 393 00:23:56,518 --> 00:23:58,186 Didn't have the social skills. 394 00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:00,063 That would describe a lot of guys. 395 00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:02,983 Why does he hate women? 396 00:24:03,483 --> 00:24:04,818 I should ask. 397 00:24:04,901 --> 00:24:07,612 - But not outright. - No? 398 00:24:07,696 --> 00:24:10,991 He sounds like the kind of person who would tell you what you wanna hear. 399 00:24:11,074 --> 00:24:13,785 - You have to disarm him first. - You mean, like... 400 00:24:14,911 --> 00:24:17,747 - What? - Ask him questions about himself. 401 00:24:18,748 --> 00:24:21,877 Lean into him, listen intently. 402 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,713 - I do that. - Keep your arms uncrossed. 403 00:24:25,422 --> 00:24:27,465 Mirror his movements. 404 00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,178 Encourage him to talk about the things he's excited about. 405 00:24:31,261 --> 00:24:33,180 Are these feminine wiles? 406 00:24:33,263 --> 00:24:35,473 Cross your legs in his direction. 407 00:24:36,641 --> 00:24:39,060 - Do you really do that? - But don't touch him. 408 00:24:39,936 --> 00:24:41,521 You want him to like you, 409 00:24:42,063 --> 00:24:44,649 but you don't want him to think you're gonna fuck him. 410 00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:50,030 Look at your face. 411 00:24:58,830 --> 00:24:59,873 Here's the thing. 412 00:24:59,956 --> 00:25:03,376 I spent five years as a brick agent and a couple of years at the academy. 413 00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:05,545 - I'm squeaky clean. - Oh. 414 00:25:05,629 --> 00:25:07,297 I'm Eliot Ness. I'm... 415 00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:09,424 You're Melvin Purvis, G-MAN. 416 00:25:09,507 --> 00:25:10,508 Exactly. 417 00:25:10,592 --> 00:25:12,385 And back then, no skirt in the FBI. 418 00:25:12,469 --> 00:25:14,262 - No women, just men. - Wow. 419 00:25:14,346 --> 00:25:19,017 Then I enroll in college, and suddenly, I am Warren fucking Beatty. 420 00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:21,228 - Wow. - Everything goes. 421 00:25:21,311 --> 00:25:22,771 - You take sugar? - No. 422 00:25:22,854 --> 00:25:24,314 - Cool. Milk? - Thank you. 423 00:25:24,397 --> 00:25:26,983 - You got it, man. - Suddenly it's disco and poppers, 424 00:25:27,067 --> 00:25:28,360 and fern bars. 425 00:25:28,443 --> 00:25:30,695 I am up to my neck in chicks. 426 00:25:30,779 --> 00:25:32,405 Pussy, pussy, pussy. I hear that. 427 00:25:32,489 --> 00:25:36,534 It turns out chicks do really dig a guy with a badge. 428 00:25:36,618 --> 00:25:39,162 "Gas, grass, or ass. Nobody rides for free." 429 00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:42,249 Next thing I know, I'm with a 24-year-old that I met in a bar. 430 00:25:42,332 --> 00:25:45,835 No woman has ever been so into me in my entire life. 431 00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:47,337 Don't brag. It's unbecoming. 432 00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:49,339 Oh, my God. I am so sorry. 433 00:25:49,422 --> 00:25:50,548 I'm kidding. 434 00:25:51,216 --> 00:25:52,050 Man... 435 00:25:54,469 --> 00:25:56,846 the things she comes up with in the sack. 436 00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:58,598 You gotta love that young pussy. 437 00:25:59,182 --> 00:26:01,142 I do. I really fucking do. 438 00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:05,814 You gotta make it with that young pussy real quick before it turns into Mom. 439 00:26:08,066 --> 00:26:09,025 Yeah. 440 00:26:11,778 --> 00:26:15,073 So you were a virgin up until then, that's what you're saying? 441 00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:18,285 - No, not at all. - Oh, you go over like you're a virgin. 442 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,870 - What? - What's wrong with that? 443 00:26:20,954 --> 00:26:22,205 I was a virgin for years. 444 00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:25,333 Oh, no, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just I'm... not. 445 00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:26,751 Uh-huh. 446 00:26:27,627 --> 00:26:30,463 This new girl, she take it up the ass? 447 00:26:33,508 --> 00:26:35,302 We haven't really discussed it. 448 00:26:35,385 --> 00:26:36,594 Ask her. 449 00:26:36,678 --> 00:26:39,973 An asshole will suck your cock right in, literally. 450 00:26:40,056 --> 00:26:41,683 It's like a hole that sucks. 451 00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:43,476 It's easy. 452 00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:47,731 But when you fuck somebody in the neck, it's entirely the opposite. 453 00:26:47,814 --> 00:26:51,651 It's nothing but resistance. It's really difficult. 454 00:26:51,735 --> 00:26:52,944 Let me. 455 00:26:53,028 --> 00:26:54,529 You feel this? 456 00:26:54,612 --> 00:26:56,614 Feel it. It's all muscle. 457 00:26:56,698 --> 00:26:58,325 Cartilaginous. 458 00:27:01,911 --> 00:27:03,288 Is this interesting? 459 00:27:03,747 --> 00:27:07,876 - Oh, yeah. - Because I can skip some of the detail. 460 00:27:08,335 --> 00:27:09,961 No, I'm here for the detail. 461 00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:12,797 A major college campus. 462 00:27:12,881 --> 00:27:16,634 It's like a giant candy store, you know what I mean. 463 00:27:16,718 --> 00:27:17,636 Right. 464 00:27:18,303 --> 00:27:23,933 Your, uh, your mom worked on campus at UCSC, right? 465 00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:26,061 Remind me again what she did. 466 00:27:29,064 --> 00:27:31,691 - Administrative assistant. - Right. 467 00:27:35,403 --> 00:27:38,823 That's all she lived for, man, her work and her precious coeds, 468 00:27:38,907 --> 00:27:40,909 whom she mothered relentlessly. 469 00:27:41,326 --> 00:27:43,828 Do you think that she neglected you for them? 470 00:27:43,912 --> 00:27:45,372 Put it this way, 471 00:27:45,872 --> 00:27:49,918 she had a very violently outspoken position on men. 472 00:27:51,252 --> 00:27:53,671 She had a failed marriage with my father. 473 00:27:53,755 --> 00:27:55,924 I looked a lot like him, so... 474 00:27:56,007 --> 00:27:57,509 You reminded her of him. 475 00:28:00,261 --> 00:28:03,431 Do you think you developed a dislike for young women as a result? 476 00:28:04,015 --> 00:28:05,975 As far as she was concerned, 477 00:28:06,601 --> 00:28:10,480 I was never going to end up with one of those girls 478 00:28:10,563 --> 00:28:12,857 because I was a fuckup and an embarrassment. 479 00:28:12,941 --> 00:28:15,026 - You were a failure in her eyes. - Look. 480 00:28:15,527 --> 00:28:19,572 My mother was a decent, upstanding, reasonable woman, 481 00:28:19,656 --> 00:28:21,908 but when it came to me, 482 00:28:21,991 --> 00:28:24,035 she had nothing but contempt, 483 00:28:24,703 --> 00:28:26,830 disappointment, and disdain. 484 00:28:28,873 --> 00:28:30,291 That must've been awful. 485 00:28:31,626 --> 00:28:33,002 Well, here's the thing. 486 00:28:37,632 --> 00:28:38,675 I'm listening. 487 00:28:42,137 --> 00:28:46,141 Women are born with this little hole between their legs... 488 00:28:47,058 --> 00:28:50,812 which every man on earth just wants to stick something into. 489 00:28:52,564 --> 00:28:54,149 And they're weaker than men, 490 00:28:55,108 --> 00:28:57,402 so they learn strategies. 491 00:28:57,485 --> 00:29:00,530 They deploy their minds and their sex, 492 00:29:00,613 --> 00:29:03,575 and they intuitively learn to humiliate. 493 00:29:06,161 --> 00:29:08,037 Did your mother humiliate you? 494 00:29:14,043 --> 00:29:15,003 Ed? 495 00:29:36,024 --> 00:29:38,401 Lust murder doesn't cut it. 496 00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:42,530 He did not stab, and rape, and decapitate Mom because he was aroused. 497 00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:44,449 He was conditioned to do it. 498 00:29:44,532 --> 00:29:46,951 - Did he say that? - As good as. 499 00:29:47,035 --> 00:29:48,203 It's schtick. 500 00:29:48,286 --> 00:29:50,205 He learned the vernacular in the institution. 501 00:29:50,288 --> 00:29:52,957 - He's sophisticated enough to use it. - No, that's not my instinct. 502 00:29:53,041 --> 00:29:56,294 Is it your instinct he was choosing words carefully or did he just spew it out? 503 00:29:56,377 --> 00:29:57,212 Very carefully. 504 00:29:57,295 --> 00:30:00,882 He's got you pegged. He's telling you what he's guessed you want to hear. 505 00:30:01,424 --> 00:30:04,427 - But why would I want to hear that? - Because you're you. 506 00:30:04,511 --> 00:30:06,721 You told him about your university education, 507 00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:09,265 and your sassy girlfriend, and your sensitive character, 508 00:30:09,349 --> 00:30:11,226 and he tailored his bullshit to fit. 509 00:30:12,727 --> 00:30:15,396 - Why did you tell him that stuff? - To loosen him up. 510 00:30:16,564 --> 00:30:19,150 Why do you feel the need to tell him about your girlfriend? 511 00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:20,652 Just to get him talking. 512 00:30:20,735 --> 00:30:23,404 Holden, he's had seven years in a correctional facility. 513 00:30:23,488 --> 00:30:25,490 He's been practicing. Don't encourage him. 514 00:30:25,573 --> 00:30:27,659 - I was trying to disarm him. - You're a federal agent. 515 00:30:27,742 --> 00:30:30,495 Don't give him anything. He's your subject. Be objective. 516 00:30:30,578 --> 00:30:33,331 - I've gotta trust my instincts on this. - There's that word again. 517 00:30:33,414 --> 00:30:35,542 So in Fairfield, Iowa you were in the Dark Ages, 518 00:30:35,625 --> 00:30:38,795 and now suddenly, you have all these unimpeachable instincts? 519 00:30:39,254 --> 00:30:40,547 Well, it's been a process. 520 00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:43,091 Okay, look, there's no doubt whatever happened in there 521 00:30:43,174 --> 00:30:45,176 was a profound experience for you, 522 00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:47,846 but I need you to understand that whatever you think, 523 00:30:47,929 --> 00:30:52,350 there is a distinct possibility that he's manipulating you. 524 00:31:02,026 --> 00:31:04,654 ♪ Ticktock, tick Doo, doo, doo, doo ♪ 525 00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:09,951 ♪ Ticktock, tick Doo, doo, doo, doo ♪ 526 00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:14,956 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 527 00:31:15,665 --> 00:31:19,878 ♪ Into the future ♪ 528 00:31:21,963 --> 00:31:25,258 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 529 00:31:25,341 --> 00:31:28,803 ♪ Into the future ♪ 530 00:31:30,597 --> 00:31:34,017 ♪ I want to fly like an eagle ♪ 531 00:31:34,183 --> 00:31:35,977 ♪ To the sea ♪ 532 00:31:36,394 --> 00:31:40,648 ♪ Fly like an eagle Let my spirit carry me ♪ 533 00:31:40,732 --> 00:31:45,987 ♪ I want to fly like an eagle Till I'm free ♪ 534 00:31:46,571 --> 00:31:49,741 ♪ Fly through the revolution ♪ 535 00:31:49,824 --> 00:31:51,159 It's not my fault. 536 00:31:51,242 --> 00:31:53,912 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 537 00:31:54,621 --> 00:31:58,041 ♪ Into the future ♪ 538 00:32:00,835 --> 00:32:03,796 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 539 00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:07,800 ♪ Into the future ♪ 540 00:32:10,345 --> 00:32:13,514 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 541 00:32:13,598 --> 00:32:17,769 ♪ Into the future ♪ 542 00:32:19,771 --> 00:32:23,232 ♪ Time keeps on slippin' Slippin', slippin' ♪ 543 00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:25,735 Gentleman, I'm Detective Roy Carver. 544 00:32:25,818 --> 00:32:27,987 Listen, I was a little late for the presentation, 545 00:32:28,071 --> 00:32:29,364 but that was just great. 546 00:32:29,447 --> 00:32:31,699 - Well, thank you very much. - Glad to be of service. 547 00:32:31,783 --> 00:32:34,702 Listen, before you go, I was hoping I could ask you something. 548 00:32:34,786 --> 00:32:36,913 I know you're not just here to teach. 549 00:32:37,497 --> 00:32:40,833 - No, we really just teach, Roy. - Pretty much all we focus on. 550 00:32:40,917 --> 00:32:44,253 I was hoping I could get you to take a look at something a little, uh... 551 00:32:44,337 --> 00:32:45,254 unusual. 552 00:32:46,381 --> 00:32:47,924 Oh, sure thing. 553 00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:55,348 Her name's Rosemary Gonzales, 73 years old. 554 00:32:55,431 --> 00:32:58,726 Her husband died of cancer so she sold the family farm in Chico, 555 00:32:58,810 --> 00:33:01,354 moved to Sacramento to be closer to the grandkids. 556 00:33:02,981 --> 00:33:05,984 Two weeks ago, we find her beaten within an inch of her life 557 00:33:06,067 --> 00:33:07,527 in a doorway to her back porch. 558 00:33:07,986 --> 00:33:09,070 She hasn't been robbed. 559 00:33:09,153 --> 00:33:11,656 She's been groped and assaulted but not penetrated, 560 00:33:11,739 --> 00:33:14,826 and the little dog's throat's been cut. 561 00:33:16,786 --> 00:33:18,579 Was the dog killed because it was protecting her? 562 00:33:18,663 --> 00:33:20,123 Or for some other reason? 563 00:33:20,206 --> 00:33:22,333 That I don't know. But it's interesting. 564 00:33:22,417 --> 00:33:23,626 Why didn't he stab her? 565 00:33:24,627 --> 00:33:25,962 Didn't have the nerve? 566 00:33:26,045 --> 00:33:29,632 I don't think some Latino with a shiv got scared of a little old lady. 567 00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:32,468 Why do you say that? Why do you say "Latino" like that? 568 00:33:32,552 --> 00:33:34,345 That's the neighborhood, spics and blacks. 569 00:33:34,429 --> 00:33:36,723 Did she identify anybody of that ethnicity? 570 00:33:36,806 --> 00:33:40,018 No. She was hovering in and out of a coma for the past ten days. 571 00:33:40,101 --> 00:33:43,271 Now she's finally come around, she has no recollection whatsoever. 572 00:33:43,771 --> 00:33:45,565 You think it's about a little dog? 573 00:33:45,648 --> 00:33:48,234 Scottish Terriers can be loud. Their bark... 574 00:33:48,317 --> 00:33:50,486 - Could be annoying. - Listen... 575 00:33:51,529 --> 00:33:55,033 we need to know exactly how worried we need to be. 576 00:34:32,904 --> 00:34:35,782 My husband would've cried to see me like this. 577 00:34:36,449 --> 00:34:39,494 Me, I don't cry. I'm tough. 578 00:34:40,244 --> 00:34:43,247 But he was just like a baby. 579 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,542 It would've destroyed his faith in humanity. 580 00:34:48,628 --> 00:34:50,129 What did I ever do? 581 00:34:51,464 --> 00:34:53,466 Who would do such a thing? 582 00:34:55,051 --> 00:34:56,886 I never hurt a soul. 583 00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,597 I don't have any enemies. 584 00:35:00,598 --> 00:35:02,350 I don't dress like a whore. 585 00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:04,894 - I'm an old lady... - Estábien. 586 00:35:06,979 --> 00:35:08,314 Let me ask you something. 587 00:35:09,148 --> 00:35:11,025 Did your dog ever bite anyone? 588 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,485 Never. 589 00:35:12,568 --> 00:35:15,738 Ever bother anyone by barking? Any complaints from neighbors? 590 00:35:15,822 --> 00:35:19,200 No. He was very well-behaved. 591 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,413 - Who cuts the grass, Rosie? - Who helps you take care of the yard? 592 00:35:25,164 --> 00:35:27,667 I have all sorts of help. Kids mostly. 593 00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:28,668 Which kids? 594 00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:30,878 Just local kids. 595 00:35:31,379 --> 00:35:33,214 It's a very close community. 596 00:35:33,297 --> 00:35:36,134 And you didn't recognize your assailant? He wasn't familiar? 597 00:35:37,593 --> 00:35:39,220 I just don't remember. 598 00:35:41,556 --> 00:35:42,974 Do you have kids? 599 00:35:43,057 --> 00:35:44,058 Two daughters. 600 00:35:44,767 --> 00:35:45,810 Married? 601 00:35:46,435 --> 00:35:49,355 The eldest is divorced. Dios mío. 602 00:35:50,231 --> 00:35:52,441 The younger I don't see that often. 603 00:35:52,525 --> 00:35:54,110 Can you remember anything else? 604 00:35:54,235 --> 00:35:55,736 Was he big, little? 605 00:35:56,195 --> 00:35:59,991 Do you remember any moles, scars, tattoos, distinctive marks? 606 00:36:00,074 --> 00:36:01,993 I remember moonlight. 607 00:36:03,744 --> 00:36:04,787 And... 608 00:36:07,540 --> 00:36:09,625 I do remember a smell. 609 00:36:10,918 --> 00:36:12,170 What kind of smell? 610 00:36:12,753 --> 00:36:14,672 I don't know, he just... 611 00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:18,801 - He stank. - Like what? 612 00:36:18,885 --> 00:36:21,053 Grease or gasoline, fertilizer? 613 00:36:21,137 --> 00:36:22,221 Like a bum. 614 00:36:22,305 --> 00:36:24,599 Like somebody who needed to wash. 615 00:36:25,224 --> 00:36:28,519 Seventeen, eighteen-year-old high school kid, 616 00:36:28,603 --> 00:36:31,022 low self-esteem, hates authority, 617 00:36:31,606 --> 00:36:33,733 doesn't get along well with his parents. 618 00:36:34,192 --> 00:36:35,735 What, just some punk? 619 00:36:35,818 --> 00:36:37,778 Gets into a fight with his old man one night, 620 00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:42,575 maybe he gets a hold of a bottle of liquor and comes across the house, 621 00:36:42,658 --> 00:36:46,204 recognizes the place because he cut the grass there when he was younger. 622 00:36:46,287 --> 00:36:48,289 - Some neighborhood kid? - He goes inside. 623 00:36:48,956 --> 00:36:52,376 She doesn't recognize him, thinks he's broken in, and starts yelling. 624 00:36:52,835 --> 00:36:54,378 The fight gets physical. 625 00:36:54,462 --> 00:36:57,423 He's drunk, he beats the shit out of her. 626 00:36:58,216 --> 00:37:02,470 He knifes the dog because the dog is yapping its head off. 627 00:37:03,179 --> 00:37:04,305 And then he runs. 628 00:37:05,264 --> 00:37:07,975 Are you guys serious? A teenager? 629 00:37:08,059 --> 00:37:09,227 He has bad hygiene. 630 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,147 Doesn't bathe because bathing is what his parents want. 631 00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:16,067 Look, we got a lot of kids like that around here. 632 00:37:17,652 --> 00:37:20,488 But what kind of degenerate carves up a little dog? 633 00:37:20,571 --> 00:37:22,657 Maybe the kid saw the dog in the yard, 634 00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:26,577 decided to conduct a moonlight experiment with his Bowie knife, gets interrupted. 635 00:37:27,495 --> 00:37:30,206 A careful, considerate old lady would bring her dog in at night. 636 00:37:30,289 --> 00:37:33,668 She went outside with the dog because she heard something. 637 00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:35,544 Listen. 638 00:37:35,628 --> 00:37:37,213 It was a harvest moon. 639 00:37:38,714 --> 00:37:42,134 We have been tossing the idea around that maybe it's one of these, uh... 640 00:37:42,385 --> 00:37:44,220 you know, satanic deals. 641 00:37:44,303 --> 00:37:47,265 You know, like maybe the dog is some kind of ritual sacrifice or something. 642 00:37:49,141 --> 00:37:50,059 Check. 643 00:37:53,604 --> 00:37:55,648 You need to squeeze the neighborhood kids. 644 00:37:55,731 --> 00:37:56,941 One of them knows something. 645 00:37:57,024 --> 00:37:59,652 We had a kid like that, brought him in for questioning twice. 646 00:37:59,735 --> 00:38:00,778 Bring him in again. 647 00:38:00,861 --> 00:38:02,488 We're gonna get pushback from the family. 648 00:38:02,571 --> 00:38:04,156 His aunt works for the county. 649 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,201 - Then make it formal. - I'm probably gonna need a warrant. 650 00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:09,203 We might be able to help you with that. 651 00:38:16,335 --> 00:38:17,295 Fuck! 652 00:38:19,797 --> 00:38:23,175 Nancy's gonna kill me. We can't get a flight till Sunday. 653 00:38:27,013 --> 00:38:29,640 - Maybe this kid's like Kemper. - We have to get a room. 654 00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:32,810 I can take care of the room. We can turn this into an opportunity. 655 00:38:32,893 --> 00:38:36,105 - It could help with the Gonzales case. - I can't believe I'm stuck with you. 656 00:38:36,188 --> 00:38:38,065 - We can talk to Kemper. - No! 657 00:38:38,149 --> 00:38:40,192 - I'm gonna play golf. - Come with me. 658 00:38:40,276 --> 00:38:42,236 I'm not consulting with Ed Kemper. 659 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,655 Not to consult. Just background. 660 00:38:44,739 --> 00:38:46,282 When did his behavior escalate? 661 00:38:46,365 --> 00:38:48,409 You can't stay away from that motherfucker, can you? 662 00:38:48,492 --> 00:38:50,536 No, please. Don't say "motherfucker." 663 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,414 You know that he'll respond to your seniority. 664 00:38:53,497 --> 00:38:56,167 - You could really smoke him out. - No, not now. 665 00:38:56,792 --> 00:38:59,712 We're stuck here all weekend. What else are you gonna do? 666 00:39:01,088 --> 00:39:02,673 I said forget about it, man. 667 00:39:14,518 --> 00:39:18,314 So, you're the big boss, right? 668 00:39:18,397 --> 00:39:21,609 Well, I established the Behavioral Science Unit years ago, 669 00:39:21,692 --> 00:39:23,778 but Holden's come in with a lot of new ideas. 670 00:39:23,861 --> 00:39:27,323 So Holden's the intrepid rookie investigator? 671 00:39:27,406 --> 00:39:30,326 Bill taught me everything I know about criminal behavior. 672 00:39:30,409 --> 00:39:33,287 Is that right? Well, let me ask you something, Bill. 673 00:39:33,371 --> 00:39:35,998 What do you think about Joseph Wambaugh? 674 00:39:36,082 --> 00:39:38,751 He knows Joe. Right, Bill? 675 00:39:39,502 --> 00:39:40,419 Well... 676 00:39:40,503 --> 00:39:43,214 Actually, he based a lot of that stuff on Bill. 677 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,842 - No shit. - Uh-huh. 678 00:39:46,926 --> 00:39:49,303 Not the, uh, stories, 679 00:39:49,387 --> 00:39:52,598 but the psychological insights and the vernacular. 680 00:39:52,681 --> 00:39:53,557 Yeah. 681 00:39:54,058 --> 00:39:55,768 That is fascinating. 682 00:39:56,268 --> 00:39:59,021 I sure would love to pick your brain sometime. 683 00:39:59,105 --> 00:40:00,981 Well, that's another life sentence right there. 684 00:40:01,065 --> 00:40:03,317 Maybe you could, uh... 685 00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:06,070 talk about your background a little bit with Bill. 686 00:40:06,654 --> 00:40:10,366 Maybe tell him the thing that you told me the other day 687 00:40:10,449 --> 00:40:11,659 about your mother. 688 00:40:13,953 --> 00:40:15,162 My mother. 689 00:40:18,290 --> 00:40:20,668 Well, you see, Bill, 690 00:40:20,751 --> 00:40:24,922 even as a child, I had kind of a rich fantasy life. 691 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,094 As a teenager, I began by cutting up inanimate objects. 692 00:40:30,177 --> 00:40:32,304 G.I. Joe. My sister's dolls. 693 00:40:32,388 --> 00:40:35,266 Ripping their heads off, cutting up the bodies. 694 00:40:35,766 --> 00:40:37,768 Mutilating them, if you will. 695 00:40:37,852 --> 00:40:40,604 You had fantasies of what, real women? 696 00:40:40,688 --> 00:40:41,730 Oh, yeah. 697 00:40:41,814 --> 00:40:45,860 And my mother would yell and scream at me, tell me I was sick. 698 00:40:45,943 --> 00:40:48,946 She thought I was going to do something hideous one day. 699 00:40:49,029 --> 00:40:50,656 What did she think you were gonna do? 700 00:40:50,739 --> 00:40:54,160 I guess rape my sister or something. 701 00:40:54,618 --> 00:40:56,871 This is when I was ten years old. 702 00:40:58,122 --> 00:40:58,956 Nice. 703 00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:01,417 Not exactly The Brady Bunch. 704 00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:03,127 Why do you think she thought this? 705 00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:05,045 Because she was fucking nuts. 706 00:41:05,129 --> 00:41:07,840 - You didn't do anything to frighten her? - She frightened me. 707 00:41:08,424 --> 00:41:12,094 She'd make me sleep on a dirty old mattress in the basement. 708 00:41:12,178 --> 00:41:14,889 Lock the door. Ten years old. 709 00:41:14,972 --> 00:41:17,433 So then it became dogs and cats, strangling them, 710 00:41:17,516 --> 00:41:19,894 burying them in the backyard. 711 00:41:19,977 --> 00:41:21,896 Hold on. Sorry. 712 00:41:25,232 --> 00:41:26,567 Just to vent. 713 00:41:27,735 --> 00:41:31,405 You know what I'm saying? Classic displacement activity. 714 00:41:31,489 --> 00:41:35,784 Because it was my retreat from the insanity of the world. 715 00:41:35,868 --> 00:41:37,953 - Then, you see... - Sorry. Wait a minute. 716 00:41:38,037 --> 00:41:39,038 Sorry, guys. 717 00:41:43,751 --> 00:41:45,294 Is that why your mother sent you away? 718 00:41:46,545 --> 00:41:49,173 In the end, I ran away to live with my father, 719 00:41:49,256 --> 00:41:51,050 but he didn't want me either. 720 00:41:51,133 --> 00:41:54,595 So they packed me off to live with my grandma. 721 00:41:54,678 --> 00:41:56,555 She thought I was a freak. 722 00:41:56,639 --> 00:41:57,890 Is that why you shot her? 723 00:41:58,432 --> 00:42:02,186 Well, they were both very controlling, aggressive, matriarchal women. 724 00:42:02,269 --> 00:42:04,688 - Matriarchal? - Female-centric. 725 00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:06,732 Get that down. That's a big antecedent. 726 00:42:07,233 --> 00:42:08,275 What happened after that? 727 00:42:09,151 --> 00:42:11,362 I was put in a fucking mental institution. 728 00:42:11,987 --> 00:42:13,072 I was 15. 729 00:42:13,155 --> 00:42:15,991 I was 21 years old when I came out. 730 00:42:16,075 --> 00:42:19,912 All those years when other kids were having their sexual revolution, 731 00:42:19,995 --> 00:42:21,747 I was locked in a room. 732 00:42:22,373 --> 00:42:26,919 You remember the whole flower power, college girls into love and peace? 733 00:42:28,337 --> 00:42:33,050 Physically, I wasn't impotent, but emotionally I was. 734 00:42:34,468 --> 00:42:39,056 Because of the way I was conditioned by Mom, right? Like you said. 735 00:42:39,139 --> 00:42:40,891 - Conditioned? - Right. 736 00:42:42,059 --> 00:42:43,394 You see, Bill, 737 00:42:44,019 --> 00:42:47,231 I knew a week before she died I was gonna kill her. 738 00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:54,738 She went out to a party, she got soused, she came home alone. 739 00:42:54,822 --> 00:42:58,158 I asked her how her evening went. She just looked at me. 740 00:42:59,410 --> 00:43:01,662 She said, "For seven years." 741 00:43:02,288 --> 00:43:07,167 She said, "I haven't had sex with a man because of you, my murderous son." 742 00:43:12,464 --> 00:43:15,426 So I got a claw hammer and I beat her to death. 743 00:43:17,177 --> 00:43:18,512 Then I cut her head off. 744 00:43:23,475 --> 00:43:25,352 And I humiliated her. 745 00:43:29,898 --> 00:43:32,651 And I said, "There. Now you've had sex." 746 00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:40,200 If there's one thing I know, it's this: 747 00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:44,788 A mother should not scorn her own son. 748 00:43:45,956 --> 00:43:48,083 If a woman humiliates her little boy, 749 00:43:48,167 --> 00:43:52,588 he will become hostile, and violent, and debased. Period. 750 00:44:03,182 --> 00:44:07,019 Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached our cruising altitude... 751 00:44:07,102 --> 00:44:09,647 - I think we need to talk. - Now do you see? 752 00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:11,940 I need to speak to Shepard. Tell him what's going on. 753 00:44:12,024 --> 00:44:12,941 It's too early. 754 00:44:13,025 --> 00:44:15,027 The longer we wait, the worse it's gonna be. 755 00:44:15,110 --> 00:44:18,113 - We'll be drowned in red tape. - And there's a reason for that. 756 00:44:18,197 --> 00:44:21,367 The FBI is a glacial bureaucracy, but it's highly effective. 757 00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:23,911 Kemper's in lockdown, what's he gonna do? 758 00:44:23,994 --> 00:44:26,246 Kemper is a gigantic blabbermouth. 759 00:44:26,330 --> 00:44:28,123 He's friends with all the prison guards. 760 00:44:28,207 --> 00:44:31,377 A federal agent is meeting with him, you think that hasn't reached the warden? 761 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,339 A couple of months, that's all I need. 762 00:44:35,422 --> 00:44:37,716 No. Because if we get censured, 763 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,469 we're off work two weeks minimum, no appeal. 764 00:44:40,552 --> 00:44:42,930 And you can kiss goodbye to the Gonzales case. 765 00:44:43,013 --> 00:44:44,640 They'll never catch that guy. 766 00:44:50,312 --> 00:44:52,856 Did you tell a detective in Sacramento you would intercede 767 00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:55,651 with the district attorney on behalf of the FBI? 768 00:44:56,235 --> 00:44:59,279 Some DA called me and asked why I had two agents in Sacramento. 769 00:44:59,363 --> 00:45:01,573 "Two goons," his exact words. 770 00:45:01,657 --> 00:45:02,908 It's a strange case. 771 00:45:02,991 --> 00:45:05,702 The locals were struggling. We were trying to figure a way forward. 772 00:45:05,786 --> 00:45:07,246 What were you thinking? 773 00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:09,164 At the time, we deemed this of great urgency. 774 00:45:09,248 --> 00:45:10,582 The circumstances were unusual. 775 00:45:10,666 --> 00:45:13,585 Assault and battery? Since when does the FBI consult on that? 776 00:45:13,669 --> 00:45:14,711 Not even homicide. 777 00:45:14,795 --> 00:45:16,130 Unless you count a dog. 778 00:45:16,672 --> 00:45:18,757 Bill, the past three years I've heard you complain 779 00:45:18,841 --> 00:45:20,634 about how overworked you are with the Road School. 780 00:45:20,717 --> 00:45:21,927 I gave you your assistant, 781 00:45:22,010 --> 00:45:24,304 and this is how you choose to spend your time? 782 00:45:25,681 --> 00:45:28,225 I trust you understand my position on this. 783 00:45:29,852 --> 00:45:32,396 Is there anything else you want to tell me? 784 00:45:41,447 --> 00:45:44,533 I get back on Tuesday, if you want to pick me up from the airport. 785 00:45:44,616 --> 00:45:45,742 Sure, I'd love to. 786 00:45:46,743 --> 00:45:49,580 - You should come with me sometime. - To Detroit? 787 00:45:50,497 --> 00:45:53,333 See your old stomping grounds. Meet my mom. 788 00:45:55,085 --> 00:45:56,420 Okay, good to know where we're at. 789 00:45:56,503 --> 00:45:59,506 - No, I would love to meet your mom. - I said sometime. 790 00:45:59,590 --> 00:46:01,758 No, actually, it's something I would really enjoy. 791 00:46:01,842 --> 00:46:03,427 I meant eventually. 792 00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:05,846 I'm sure she's really, really lovely. 793 00:46:06,430 --> 00:46:08,557 Actually, she's kind of a bitch, 794 00:46:09,433 --> 00:46:11,310 especially when it comes to people I'm dating. 795 00:46:11,393 --> 00:46:12,227 Really? 796 00:46:12,936 --> 00:46:14,855 But... I like you. 797 00:46:15,939 --> 00:46:18,358 I might give you the secret to win her over. 798 00:46:20,527 --> 00:46:21,528 What might that be? 799 00:46:21,612 --> 00:46:25,282 Well, Mom doesn't care what kind of music you like, what kind of job you have, 800 00:46:25,365 --> 00:46:26,950 what kind of car you drive. 801 00:46:27,576 --> 00:46:30,954 Instead, she'll ask you about your mother. 802 00:46:31,580 --> 00:46:34,041 It'll seem like a perfectly innocent question, 803 00:46:34,124 --> 00:46:36,210 but she'll be watching you closely. 804 00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:39,880 If she thinks you love and respect your mom, 805 00:46:40,547 --> 00:46:43,258 she'll know that you'll treat her daughter the same way. 806 00:46:46,053 --> 00:46:47,387 That's actually shrewd. 807 00:46:48,055 --> 00:46:50,724 ...hair group. It can't do anything about the hair... 808 00:46:50,807 --> 00:46:51,934 So... 809 00:46:53,018 --> 00:46:54,269 do you like your mom? 810 00:46:56,813 --> 00:46:57,856 I do. 811 00:46:57,940 --> 00:47:00,400 She's someone I really enjoy talking to. 812 00:47:00,984 --> 00:47:03,862 I knew it. I knew you were a momma's boy. 813 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,368 You should just come with me tomorrow. You've already passed the test. 814 00:47:09,826 --> 00:47:11,495 I couldn't even if I wanted to. 815 00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,164 Shepard doesn't want us leaving town. 816 00:47:14,248 --> 00:47:15,666 Why? What's happened? 817 00:47:16,166 --> 00:47:17,459 We... Well... 818 00:47:18,085 --> 00:47:19,002 I... 819 00:47:19,753 --> 00:47:21,255 really fucked up. 820 00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:23,632 Ooh. You grounded? 821 00:47:28,095 --> 00:47:30,806 When are they gonna start taking this whole thing seriously? 822 00:48:00,752 --> 00:48:02,421 - Hi. - Hi. 823 00:48:12,014 --> 00:48:15,517 - How do you know where I live? - Personnel gave me your address. 824 00:48:25,902 --> 00:48:27,154 Let's go back to Shepard. 825 00:48:27,863 --> 00:48:29,948 Tell him about Kemper, tell him what we've been doing. 826 00:48:30,032 --> 00:48:32,743 - You think he'll listen now? - Let's make it official. 827 00:48:32,826 --> 00:48:35,078 You don't want to wait till Sacramento blows over? 828 00:48:35,162 --> 00:48:37,664 No, I want to go back to Sacramento and fix it. 829 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,542 If we fix it, Shepard might give us what we want. 830 00:48:42,210 --> 00:48:44,671 He's not stupid. He'll have to listen. 831 00:48:44,755 --> 00:48:47,049 Are you out of your fucking minds?! 832 00:48:47,132 --> 00:48:48,842 You interviewed Edmund Kemper? 833 00:48:48,925 --> 00:48:51,011 Not so much interviewed. More like a conversation. 834 00:48:51,094 --> 00:48:53,889 He said interesting things that turned out to be really useful. 835 00:48:53,972 --> 00:48:55,724 - What the fuck? - I just had this idea... 836 00:48:55,807 --> 00:48:58,060 I don't want to hear your idea. I'm sick of your ideas. 837 00:48:58,143 --> 00:49:00,687 It is not our job to commiserate with these people. 838 00:49:00,771 --> 00:49:03,607 It is our job to electrocute them. How long has this been going on? 839 00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:07,319 - Just when we were in Sacramento. - The conversations with Kemper shed light 840 00:49:07,402 --> 00:49:09,071 on things we've been exploring in the unit. 841 00:49:09,154 --> 00:49:11,573 There's a correlation with what we're finding at crime scenes. 842 00:49:11,657 --> 00:49:12,908 It proves that we're on track. 843 00:49:12,991 --> 00:49:16,411 Proof the Federal Bureau of Investigation is on track after all these years? 844 00:49:16,495 --> 00:49:19,081 Well, golly, what a relief. I am so pleased for us. 845 00:49:19,164 --> 00:49:21,291 - We're pleased too. - Don't smart-mouth me, Holden! 846 00:49:21,375 --> 00:49:24,461 You fucked up the Gonzales situation, pissed off the Sacramento DA, 847 00:49:24,544 --> 00:49:27,214 and you've been interviewing lifers in the state penitentiary. 848 00:49:27,297 --> 00:49:30,509 Sir, the insights during these visits may help us identify 849 00:49:30,592 --> 00:49:33,345 the person responsible for the attacks in Sacramento and prevent others. 850 00:49:33,428 --> 00:49:36,056 Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Here's what it is. Burn your notes. 851 00:49:36,139 --> 00:49:39,393 Don't speak to me about this anymore. Don't put it in any reports. You're done. 852 00:49:39,476 --> 00:49:40,519 Excuse me, sir. 853 00:49:41,728 --> 00:49:44,564 I truly believe there is a vein here that needs to be mined. 854 00:49:44,648 --> 00:49:47,234 Okay, kiddo. You're looking down the barrel. 855 00:49:47,734 --> 00:49:50,612 Three whole bags: censure, suspension, transfer. 856 00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:06,753 Pardon me. 857 00:50:08,296 --> 00:50:11,383 Sir, permit me to speak. I've been doing this shit for seven years. 858 00:50:11,466 --> 00:50:13,885 I trained Holden because he was transferred to my department. 859 00:50:13,969 --> 00:50:15,762 He knows his criminal psychology. 860 00:50:15,846 --> 00:50:17,973 He's done his homework, worked his butt off, 861 00:50:18,056 --> 00:50:19,474 and now I think he's onto something. 862 00:50:19,558 --> 00:50:21,727 Onto what? He made friends with the Coed Killer. 863 00:50:21,810 --> 00:50:24,271 If this is going to work, we need to talk to more subjects. 864 00:50:24,354 --> 00:50:27,232 More? No! What's next, Charles Manson? When's he booked for? 865 00:50:27,315 --> 00:50:28,942 We were thinking June. 866 00:50:29,651 --> 00:50:30,736 I think it's right. 867 00:50:30,819 --> 00:50:32,571 We need to use whatever resource... 868 00:50:32,654 --> 00:50:34,781 Resource, my ass! What's the matter, bored with golf? 869 00:50:34,865 --> 00:50:37,534 California jails are full of thrill killers and lust murderers. 870 00:50:37,617 --> 00:50:40,537 - And we put them there, that's our job. - Dying and rotting on the vine. 871 00:50:40,620 --> 00:50:43,123 Cry me a river, Holden. All the wasted potential. 872 00:50:43,206 --> 00:50:44,332 It is wasted potential, sir. 873 00:50:44,416 --> 00:50:46,501 - We could be using these people. - Using how? 874 00:50:46,585 --> 00:50:48,712 - Their knowledge and insight. - Of what? 875 00:50:48,795 --> 00:50:49,921 - Themselves. - Whoselves?! 876 00:50:50,005 --> 00:50:52,466 Then we know what we're talking about when we speak to other law enforcement. 877 00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:55,260 - Can you make him shut up? - I have not been able to, sir. 878 00:50:56,845 --> 00:51:00,474 How do we get ahead of crazy if we don't know how crazy thinks? 879 00:51:10,442 --> 00:51:11,902 I like you, Bill. 880 00:51:12,527 --> 00:51:14,988 I don't particularly like him, but I like you. 881 00:51:17,783 --> 00:51:20,243 Okay, you may continue with your little sideshow. 882 00:51:20,327 --> 00:51:22,370 However, no one can know about it. Clear? 883 00:51:23,205 --> 00:51:24,456 You will relocate yourselves 884 00:51:24,539 --> 00:51:27,000 to the basement beneath Behavioral Sciences, 885 00:51:27,083 --> 00:51:29,211 reporting directly and exclusively to me. 886 00:51:29,294 --> 00:51:30,921 The basement? I'm 44 years old. 887 00:51:31,004 --> 00:51:34,257 You may dedicate ten hours of your 50-hour work week to this. 888 00:51:34,341 --> 00:51:37,844 If I deem any aspect of it to be unwarranted, unnecessary, or unsavory, 889 00:51:37,928 --> 00:51:40,096 I will end it. Do you both understand? 890 00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:41,097 Yes. 891 00:51:42,265 --> 00:51:43,183 And thank you, sir. 892 00:51:44,017 --> 00:51:45,143 Thank you, sir. 893 00:52:28,395 --> 00:52:31,606 ♪ I can't seem to face up to the facts ♪ 894 00:52:32,149 --> 00:52:35,318 ♪ I'm tense and nervous And I can't relax ♪ 895 00:52:36,278 --> 00:52:39,406 ♪ I can't sleep 'cause my bed's on fire ♪ 896 00:52:40,365 --> 00:52:43,660 ♪ Don't touch me, I'm a real live wire ♪ 897 00:52:44,536 --> 00:52:47,622 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 898 00:52:47,706 --> 00:52:51,543 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 899 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:57,132 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪ 900 00:52:57,215 --> 00:53:00,218 ♪ Oh-ho-ho ♪ 901 00:53:00,302 --> 00:53:03,096 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 902 00:53:03,180 --> 00:53:07,058 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 903 00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:13,064 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪ 904 00:53:26,578 --> 00:53:29,873 ♪ You start a conversation You can't even finish it ♪ 905 00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:34,252 ♪ You're talking a lot But you're not saying anything ♪ 906 00:53:34,586 --> 00:53:37,631 ♪ When I have nothing to say My lips are sealed ♪ 907 00:53:38,340 --> 00:53:41,551 ♪ Say something once, why say it again? ♪ 908 00:53:42,761 --> 00:53:45,931 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 909 00:53:46,014 --> 00:53:49,851 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 910 00:53:50,185 --> 00:53:55,774 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪ 911 00:53:56,233 --> 00:53:57,651 ♪ Oh-ho-ho ♪ 912 00:53:58,443 --> 00:54:01,363 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 913 00:54:01,446 --> 00:54:05,533 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 914 00:54:05,992 --> 00:54:11,581 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪ 915 00:54:25,262 --> 00:54:28,848 ♪ We are vain and we are blind ♪ 916 00:54:28,932 --> 00:54:32,686 ♪ I hate people when they're not polite ♪ 917 00:54:33,436 --> 00:54:36,564 ♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪ 918 00:54:36,648 --> 00:54:40,443 ♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪ 919 00:54:40,944 --> 00:54:46,574 ♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪