1 00:00:18,052 --> 00:00:19,679 Mr. Miller? 2 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:23,724 Is everyone okay in there? 3 00:00:25,768 --> 00:00:27,186 Agent Ford, FBI. 4 00:00:30,214 --> 00:00:31,274 Here, sir. 5 00:00:31,357 --> 00:00:33,943 We want to know what's going on. 6 00:00:34,735 --> 00:00:37,905 If you harm anyone, it will not end well for you! 7 00:00:37,989 --> 00:00:39,490 Special Agent Holden Ford. 8 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:42,910 - Ninkovich. - Is he talking? 9 00:00:42,994 --> 00:00:44,328 Not making sense. Been briefed? 10 00:00:44,412 --> 00:00:46,289 On the way over. Five people still in there? 11 00:00:46,372 --> 00:00:49,125 A security guard, the secretary, three guys from the line. 12 00:00:52,044 --> 00:00:55,006 - Where is she? - Take it easy, Mr. Miller. 13 00:00:55,089 --> 00:00:56,757 I want my wife! 14 00:00:56,841 --> 00:00:59,510 Put the gun down, step away from Ms. Curtwell. 15 00:00:59,594 --> 00:01:04,056 - I have asked you... - We need to see that everyone is unharmed. 16 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:05,716 You gonna shoot me? 17 00:01:06,017 --> 00:01:09,729 If you do not abide by our terms, and soon... 18 00:01:09,812 --> 00:01:11,314 You can't see me! 19 00:01:11,397 --> 00:01:14,609 I'm warning you, our patience is wearing thin. 20 00:01:14,692 --> 00:01:17,695 How can you shoot what you can't see? 21 00:01:17,778 --> 00:01:18,779 Mr. Miller! 22 00:01:19,363 --> 00:01:20,948 No, thank you. 23 00:01:21,032 --> 00:01:22,366 Hey, Cody. 24 00:01:23,701 --> 00:01:26,537 My name is Holden. I'd like to help you. 25 00:01:27,079 --> 00:01:29,707 - Tell me what's going on. - I gotta talk to my wife. 26 00:01:29,790 --> 00:01:31,459 - All right. - She's the only one. 27 00:01:31,542 --> 00:01:32,793 I understand. 28 00:01:32,877 --> 00:01:35,588 For the moment, is there anything else we can get you? 29 00:01:35,671 --> 00:01:37,673 Get these fucking people away. 30 00:01:37,757 --> 00:01:38,774 Okay. 31 00:01:41,260 --> 00:01:44,263 Okay... 32 00:01:46,932 --> 00:01:48,976 If I can get them to back off, 33 00:01:49,518 --> 00:01:52,813 will you... relax with Ms. Curtwell? 34 00:01:53,731 --> 00:01:56,359 Give us some time to reach your wife. 35 00:01:59,195 --> 00:02:00,363 Okay. 36 00:02:00,446 --> 00:02:01,489 Thank you. 37 00:02:05,993 --> 00:02:08,537 Keep the snipers. Back out the perimeter. 38 00:02:08,621 --> 00:02:10,539 If he starts firing, we'll have to storm the place. 39 00:02:10,623 --> 00:02:12,708 They're making me nervous. Imagine what they're doing to him. 40 00:02:12,792 --> 00:02:15,252 He has no criminal history. He's clearly having an episode. 41 00:02:15,336 --> 00:02:17,672 We need to keep him calm and wear him down. 42 00:02:18,089 --> 00:02:19,590 Get rid of those reporters. 43 00:02:22,885 --> 00:02:24,595 All right, guys. Back it up! 44 00:02:24,679 --> 00:02:27,723 - All right. Let's go. Back it up. - Move back. 45 00:02:29,892 --> 00:02:30,893 How am I doing? 46 00:02:37,233 --> 00:02:39,402 - You see me? - Oh, God. 47 00:02:41,153 --> 00:02:42,905 Yes, I can see you! 48 00:02:44,365 --> 00:02:47,326 - What do you see? - I can see that you're naked. 49 00:02:47,910 --> 00:02:49,495 I can see that you're cold. 50 00:02:59,463 --> 00:03:01,298 Is there a phone? Can we get him on the line? 51 00:03:01,382 --> 00:03:04,343 - He's got it off the hook. - That was his demand, talk to his wife? 52 00:03:04,427 --> 00:03:06,387 Took all day to find her. She's on her way. 53 00:03:06,470 --> 00:03:08,722 - You're not bringing her. - I want her to calm him. 54 00:03:08,806 --> 00:03:10,474 Her presence might have the opposite effect. 55 00:03:14,228 --> 00:03:16,355 Hi, Mrs. Miller? Don't get out. 56 00:03:16,439 --> 00:03:19,900 I'm Holden Ford from the FBI. Do you understand the situation? 57 00:03:19,984 --> 00:03:23,404 - Cody's got some people in there? - What happened this morning? 58 00:03:23,487 --> 00:03:24,547 I don't know. 59 00:03:24,989 --> 00:03:28,033 I tried to get him sectioned on Sunday, but I haven't seen him since. 60 00:03:28,117 --> 00:03:31,412 They told me he stole a shotgun, robbed a liquor store? 61 00:03:31,495 --> 00:03:32,788 Was he delusional? Violent? 62 00:03:32,872 --> 00:03:34,790 He's not violent. 63 00:03:34,874 --> 00:03:37,918 He's been saying that he's invisible for a while now. 64 00:03:38,002 --> 00:03:40,045 Truly invisible. He's been seeing a doctor. 65 00:03:40,129 --> 00:03:41,297 Did the doctor diagnose him? 66 00:03:41,922 --> 00:03:43,591 Cody wouldn't tell me. 67 00:03:43,674 --> 00:03:46,135 He's taking medication, but he might've stopped. 68 00:03:46,218 --> 00:03:48,512 - What kind of medication? - I'm not sure. 69 00:03:49,413 --> 00:03:50,473 Here's his doctor. 70 00:03:50,556 --> 00:03:52,308 You tried to get him sectioned? 71 00:03:52,391 --> 00:03:54,157 He kept talking to people that weren't there, 72 00:03:54,158 --> 00:03:55,561 saying they could see him. 73 00:03:56,437 --> 00:03:59,064 I told him I was gonna leave him if he didn't go to the hospital. 74 00:03:59,148 --> 00:04:01,609 - You gave him an ultimatum? - I'm sorry. 75 00:04:02,526 --> 00:04:04,862 - I feel awful. - This is not your fault. 76 00:04:05,321 --> 00:04:06,739 Has he hurt anyone? 77 00:04:06,822 --> 00:04:09,408 Not that we know about. I'm sending you along for now. 78 00:04:14,246 --> 00:04:15,790 Have someone call his doctor. 79 00:04:15,873 --> 00:04:17,833 Get his wife to tell him she won't leave him. 80 00:04:17,917 --> 00:04:21,003 We need more information. Let's see if we can get him on the line. 81 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,131 Cody! 82 00:04:24,215 --> 00:04:26,217 Everything okay in there? 83 00:04:29,178 --> 00:04:31,138 I'd really like to know what's going on in there. 84 00:04:31,222 --> 00:04:33,098 I promise you, we can work this out. 85 00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:42,066 Where's my wife? 86 00:04:42,566 --> 00:04:46,278 It's a difficult situation. Taking a while to get her here. 87 00:04:46,362 --> 00:04:48,572 - She doesn't want to talk to me? - That's not it. 88 00:04:48,656 --> 00:04:51,283 She is very worried about you. 89 00:04:51,826 --> 00:04:54,245 - You talked to her? - On the phone. 90 00:04:55,287 --> 00:04:58,249 - Maybe you could talk to her on the phone. - No! 91 00:05:00,084 --> 00:05:01,669 She has to be here. 92 00:05:06,715 --> 00:05:10,261 - I understand your frustration. - What do you understand? 93 00:05:10,344 --> 00:05:14,014 Not being able to communicate with a trusted loved one. 94 00:05:15,266 --> 00:05:16,809 What do you want to say to her? 95 00:05:17,810 --> 00:05:19,019 Why would I tell you? 96 00:05:22,273 --> 00:05:23,774 Maybe I can help. 97 00:05:25,693 --> 00:05:26,777 I don't think so. 98 00:09:28,352 --> 00:09:29,853 - Thank you. - You're welcome. 99 00:09:40,864 --> 00:09:42,899 You followed procedure. You did your job. 100 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:45,786 You did everything by the book. 101 00:09:45,869 --> 00:09:48,622 He took hostages. He knew there'd be consequences. 102 00:09:48,705 --> 00:09:50,707 - He thought he was invisible. - You're not his shrink. 103 00:09:50,791 --> 00:09:53,961 You're not responsible for diagnosing him. That's not your remit. 104 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,090 These things happen in real time, and we are the last responders. 105 00:09:58,173 --> 00:10:01,718 If an operation's gonna go south, this is not the worst outcome. 106 00:10:01,802 --> 00:10:03,470 Stay focused on what we do. 107 00:10:03,554 --> 00:10:06,431 If I did everything by the book, it begs the question... 108 00:10:06,515 --> 00:10:08,194 This place is pretty much 109 00:10:08,195 --> 00:10:10,519 the benchmark for excellence in law enforcement. 110 00:10:11,728 --> 00:10:14,606 In the rest of the world, hostage negotiation's on its way out. 111 00:10:14,690 --> 00:10:17,651 You think the Israelis bothered to negotiate at Entebbe last year? 112 00:10:19,903 --> 00:10:22,372 You didn't lose one hostage or bystander. 113 00:10:22,373 --> 00:10:24,491 That's how we measure success. 114 00:10:26,493 --> 00:10:29,121 And your courses are a big hit in the summer. 115 00:10:29,204 --> 00:10:31,290 I actually think you should be teaching more. 116 00:10:31,373 --> 00:10:33,500 - You're putting me out to pasture. - No. 117 00:10:33,584 --> 00:10:35,586 I'm putting you to work where it really counts. 118 00:10:35,669 --> 00:10:37,045 Despite what happened. 119 00:10:37,129 --> 00:10:39,381 Because of what happened, Holden. 120 00:10:39,882 --> 00:10:40,924 It seasoned you. 121 00:10:45,137 --> 00:10:46,138 Thank you, sir... 122 00:10:47,139 --> 00:10:48,140 but I'd rather not. 123 00:10:48,223 --> 00:10:49,808 Well, this is awkward. 124 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:54,730 I'd like you to sleep on it over the weekend... 125 00:10:56,356 --> 00:10:58,525 because you start full-time on Monday. 126 00:11:06,825 --> 00:11:11,038 This is how we find ourselves completely out of control. 127 00:11:12,247 --> 00:11:13,385 The fugitive has already killed 128 00:11:13,386 --> 00:11:15,751 a police officer that morning in Austin. 129 00:11:17,169 --> 00:11:19,588 He's taken two nine-millimeter rounds in the ass, 130 00:11:19,671 --> 00:11:21,506 grabbed a ten-year-old boy as a hostage, 131 00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:23,425 and he's holed up in a suburban neighborhood 132 00:11:23,508 --> 00:11:25,636 crawling with women and small children. 133 00:11:26,803 --> 00:11:28,722 Now we must focus on one thing: 134 00:11:29,389 --> 00:11:31,099 de-escalation. 135 00:11:31,683 --> 00:11:35,354 San Antonio's chief of police arrives and starts using a bullhorn, 136 00:11:35,437 --> 00:11:38,774 which more than effectively intimidates our hostage-taker. 137 00:11:40,234 --> 00:11:43,278 Coming at anyone with an attitude of "I'm right, you're wrong" 138 00:11:43,362 --> 00:11:45,489 assumes that they're of rational mind. 139 00:11:47,658 --> 00:11:50,410 We must establish communication. 140 00:11:51,787 --> 00:11:54,915 Non-threatening communication. 141 00:11:55,791 --> 00:11:57,084 Ascertain demands, 142 00:11:57,167 --> 00:12:00,295 concede nothing, reject nothing, just listen. 143 00:12:01,838 --> 00:12:03,423 Listen to what he has to say. 144 00:12:05,425 --> 00:12:08,261 Try understanding him instead of trying to dominate him. 145 00:12:09,262 --> 00:12:10,764 Look for common ground. 146 00:12:10,847 --> 00:12:12,849 Find commonality. 147 00:12:13,392 --> 00:12:15,490 And if it feels like you're buying time, well... 148 00:12:15,491 --> 00:12:17,187 that's because you are. 149 00:12:17,729 --> 00:12:20,774 But it's the key to making any perp feel heard. 150 00:12:23,402 --> 00:12:24,903 Our goal is no body bags. 151 00:12:24,987 --> 00:12:27,364 That is the hostage negotiator win-win. 152 00:12:29,324 --> 00:12:31,910 And I'm in my office on Friday for anyone who has questions 153 00:12:31,994 --> 00:12:34,287 about the psychological strategies exam. 154 00:12:43,130 --> 00:12:45,841 Wanton, indiscriminate murder. 155 00:12:45,924 --> 00:12:48,552 Seemingly random, serendipitous. 156 00:12:48,635 --> 00:12:50,303 Each one, extremely violent. 157 00:12:50,387 --> 00:12:53,015 No explanation. No apparent reason. 158 00:12:53,098 --> 00:12:54,641 They weren't sexually assaulted, 159 00:12:54,725 --> 00:12:56,685 there was no attempt to relieve them of valuables, 160 00:12:56,768 --> 00:12:58,395 they didn't know their assailant. 161 00:12:58,937 --> 00:13:02,232 Robert Violante and Stacy Moskowitz were making out in their car 162 00:13:02,315 --> 00:13:05,527 when David Berkowitz walked up and shot them both point-blank. 163 00:13:06,403 --> 00:13:08,739 Berkowitz killed six people over two summers, 164 00:13:08,822 --> 00:13:10,782 wounding seven more. Why? 165 00:13:12,034 --> 00:13:14,411 Because a dog told him to do it. 166 00:13:15,787 --> 00:13:16,805 Now... 167 00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:19,624 we can say that the guy's crazy, 168 00:13:19,625 --> 00:13:22,294 or that he's pretending that he's crazy. 169 00:13:22,711 --> 00:13:25,380 But if we're looking for a motive we can understand, 170 00:13:25,464 --> 00:13:27,340 we suddenly find there is none. 171 00:13:27,924 --> 00:13:29,134 It's a void. 172 00:13:29,217 --> 00:13:30,552 It's a black hole. 173 00:13:36,266 --> 00:13:41,021 Forty years ago, your FBI was founded hunting down John Dillinger, 174 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,024 Baby Face Nelson, Machine Gun Kelly. 175 00:13:44,107 --> 00:13:46,777 Criminals who thumbed their noses at society, 176 00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:49,112 but were basically in it for personal gain. 177 00:13:50,072 --> 00:13:54,034 Now, we have extreme violence between strangers. 178 00:13:54,993 --> 00:13:56,536 Where do we go... 179 00:13:57,704 --> 00:14:00,040 when motive becomes elusive? 180 00:14:09,549 --> 00:14:11,635 Excuse me, Professor Rathman? 181 00:14:13,887 --> 00:14:16,306 Holden Ford, Hostage Negotiation. 182 00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:17,599 Peter. Hi. 183 00:14:17,682 --> 00:14:18,829 I listened in on your class earlier. 184 00:14:18,830 --> 00:14:21,039 What you were saying about crime today... 185 00:14:22,187 --> 00:14:23,897 I don't know, it really resonates. 186 00:14:23,980 --> 00:14:26,066 - Gets attention. - Were you teaching this before Berkowitz? 187 00:14:26,149 --> 00:14:28,735 A version of it. The headlines kind of fell into my lap. 188 00:14:28,819 --> 00:14:29,903 What got you started? 189 00:14:30,237 --> 00:14:32,656 Starkweather. Whitman. Manson, of course. 190 00:14:32,739 --> 00:14:35,283 But Son of Sam kind of epitomizes now. 191 00:14:35,367 --> 00:14:37,987 It's as if... we don't know anymore 192 00:14:37,988 --> 00:14:39,454 what moves people to kill one another. 193 00:14:39,538 --> 00:14:42,290 Used to be you find a victim with 50 stab wounds, 194 00:14:42,374 --> 00:14:45,127 you look for the jilted lover, the ex-business partner. 195 00:14:45,377 --> 00:14:49,172 Now... it could be a random run-in with a disgruntled mailman. 196 00:14:49,256 --> 00:14:52,592 It's a different era. No more "Just the facts, ma'am." 197 00:14:52,676 --> 00:14:54,845 That's television. And reruns. 198 00:14:55,429 --> 00:14:57,514 - Crime has changed. - Right. 199 00:14:58,932 --> 00:15:00,767 Do you... want to grab a beer? 200 00:15:02,227 --> 00:15:03,228 Yeah, okay. 201 00:15:04,187 --> 00:15:06,106 Look at the unprecedented events 202 00:15:06,189 --> 00:15:08,900 that have occurred in the past decade and a half. 203 00:15:08,984 --> 00:15:10,527 A president assassinated. 204 00:15:10,610 --> 00:15:13,280 Fighting an unpopular war that we didn't win. 205 00:15:13,363 --> 00:15:15,782 National Guard killing four college students. 206 00:15:15,866 --> 00:15:18,326 - You can hardly wrap your mind around it. - Watergate. 207 00:15:18,410 --> 00:15:21,955 Our democracy is vanishing into what? 208 00:15:22,038 --> 00:15:23,707 Is that what all this is about? 209 00:15:23,957 --> 00:15:25,959 Just a response to turmoil? 210 00:15:26,042 --> 00:15:29,129 The government used to be, symbolically, a parental institution. 211 00:15:29,212 --> 00:15:31,673 Now? It's a free-for-all. 212 00:15:31,756 --> 00:15:33,236 The world barely makes any sense, 213 00:15:33,237 --> 00:15:35,218 so it follows that crime doesn't either. 214 00:15:35,302 --> 00:15:36,811 You and I could theorize all night, 215 00:15:36,812 --> 00:15:38,763 but the truth is, I don't fucking know. 216 00:15:38,847 --> 00:15:41,057 - I don't know either. - No one does. 217 00:15:41,141 --> 00:15:42,726 But we're supposed to, right? 218 00:15:42,809 --> 00:15:44,244 Sure, but here's the troubling thing: 219 00:15:44,245 --> 00:15:47,272 no one's even asking the questions. 220 00:15:51,151 --> 00:15:52,168 We are. 221 00:15:52,736 --> 00:15:53,737 We are. 222 00:15:56,656 --> 00:15:57,949 Mm! 223 00:15:59,367 --> 00:16:02,621 Next time, let's discuss Lee Harvey Oswald as Oedipus. 224 00:16:04,498 --> 00:16:05,624 - Thank you. - Anytime. 225 00:16:17,928 --> 00:16:19,429 - Hey. - Hey. 226 00:16:19,846 --> 00:16:21,097 What are you looking at? 227 00:16:21,848 --> 00:16:22,974 I like your outfit. 228 00:16:23,517 --> 00:16:25,936 What is that, a jumpsuit? What do you call that? 229 00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:28,146 - This? I call it a jumpsuit. - Stylish. 230 00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:30,732 What do you call that? You look like a Mormon. 231 00:16:31,191 --> 00:16:32,317 You look like my dad. 232 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:33,443 Is he a Mormon? 233 00:16:33,527 --> 00:16:34,945 No, but he looks like one. 234 00:16:35,028 --> 00:16:36,238 So does mine. 235 00:16:36,321 --> 00:16:38,657 He bought me this suit, as a matter of fact. 236 00:16:38,740 --> 00:16:41,076 Did he buy you those nice shiny shoes? 237 00:16:41,493 --> 00:16:42,569 Yes. 238 00:16:42,953 --> 00:16:45,455 I have one brown pair and one black pair. 239 00:16:46,289 --> 00:16:48,625 I've got sneakers, but I had to buy those myself. 240 00:16:48,708 --> 00:16:51,878 What kind of grown-up lets their parents choose their clothes for them? 241 00:16:53,713 --> 00:16:56,716 - Are you coming on to me? - How do you like my approach? 242 00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:04,015 You having a good time? 243 00:17:04,099 --> 00:17:05,767 - I will be. - Huh! 244 00:17:05,850 --> 00:17:07,060 It's my birthday today. 245 00:17:07,143 --> 00:17:09,396 Happy birthday. How old are you? 246 00:17:09,479 --> 00:17:12,232 - Twenty-four. - You don't look old enough to be in here. 247 00:17:12,315 --> 00:17:14,568 - What are you, a narc? - FBI, actually. 248 00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:17,821 Special Agent Holden Ford. 249 00:17:17,904 --> 00:17:19,239 Wow. 250 00:17:21,032 --> 00:17:23,076 - Can you tell? - Everybody can tell. 251 00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:24,536 You got a gun? 252 00:17:24,619 --> 00:17:26,830 I have one, but I'm not gonna show it to you. 253 00:17:26,913 --> 00:17:27,931 Nuts. 254 00:17:28,665 --> 00:17:31,209 I'm a teacher. Right up the road at Quantico. 255 00:17:31,293 --> 00:17:32,419 What do you teach? 256 00:17:33,295 --> 00:17:36,298 Hostage negotiation, such as it is. 257 00:17:36,381 --> 00:17:39,217 - Holy cow. - You really think I look like a narc? 258 00:17:39,301 --> 00:17:41,469 - Are you kidding? - I don't see it. 259 00:17:41,553 --> 00:17:43,263 You stick out like a sore thumb. 260 00:17:44,681 --> 00:17:48,435 Well, I'm not here to... infiltrate the Black Panthers. 261 00:17:48,768 --> 00:17:52,439 Those guys are hardly Black Panthers. They're engineering students. 262 00:17:52,897 --> 00:17:54,357 You should go talk to them. 263 00:17:54,441 --> 00:17:57,402 I'm sure the FBI's in need of some great-looking black dudes. 264 00:17:57,485 --> 00:18:00,655 - You've got the wrong idea about me. - You gonna book me? 265 00:18:00,739 --> 00:18:01,906 Maybe. 266 00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:03,033 Handcuffs? 267 00:18:08,204 --> 00:18:10,540 I'm here to see this really cool band from Detroit. 268 00:18:11,082 --> 00:18:12,459 You ever been to Detroit? 269 00:18:13,251 --> 00:18:14,794 Yes, actually. I was a... 270 00:18:18,465 --> 00:18:20,925 I was a brick agent there for a couple of years. 271 00:18:21,343 --> 00:18:24,679 I can't believe they're here. They used to play PJ's in Corktown. 272 00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:26,848 - You know Corktown? - Sure. 273 00:18:26,931 --> 00:18:29,392 - It looked like a furniture store. - They always sold liquor. 274 00:18:29,476 --> 00:18:30,969 The whole furniture thing was just a front 275 00:18:30,970 --> 00:18:32,854 that started during Prohibition. 276 00:18:32,937 --> 00:18:34,356 Where are you really from? 277 00:18:34,898 --> 00:18:36,566 Everywhere. 278 00:18:36,650 --> 00:18:38,318 But the Midwest, right? 279 00:18:38,401 --> 00:18:41,363 I grew up in the Midwest, but I was born in Brooklyn. 280 00:18:41,446 --> 00:18:43,823 You do not seem like a guy from New York. 281 00:18:44,908 --> 00:18:47,077 You don't seem like a girl from Corktown. 282 00:18:50,163 --> 00:18:51,414 Buy you a drink? 283 00:21:36,871 --> 00:21:39,082 - What's your name? - Debbie. 284 00:21:42,418 --> 00:21:44,838 - You want some pot? - Is that a trick question? 285 00:21:44,921 --> 00:21:45,922 Come on. 286 00:21:46,297 --> 00:21:48,424 Are you serious? No, that's completely inappropriate. 287 00:21:48,508 --> 00:21:50,260 Come on, it's my birthday. 288 00:21:50,343 --> 00:21:52,846 Oh, Jesus, you're not gonna drink and drive, are you? 289 00:21:52,929 --> 00:21:54,389 You've been plying me with booze. 290 00:21:54,472 --> 00:21:56,766 Don't you think that's kind of a mixed message? 291 00:22:01,104 --> 00:22:02,121 You coming? 292 00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:23,418 So what does a brick agent get up to in Detroit? 293 00:22:23,918 --> 00:22:25,795 Mostly corralling Army deserters. 294 00:22:26,629 --> 00:22:29,132 Guys AWOL from Vietnam trying to get to Canada. 295 00:22:30,425 --> 00:22:31,634 Too scared to go back. 296 00:22:32,302 --> 00:22:34,637 Young guys. Same age I was. 297 00:22:35,138 --> 00:22:36,723 So you were a snitch? 298 00:22:38,975 --> 00:22:40,977 There's worse things than being a snitch. 299 00:22:44,063 --> 00:22:46,649 Maybe this'll loosen you up. 300 00:22:50,278 --> 00:22:51,904 God, you are making me nervous. 301 00:22:52,739 --> 00:22:54,324 You are such a goody-goody. 302 00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:57,744 What are you, some kind of honey trap? 303 00:22:58,244 --> 00:23:00,288 I've been warned to watch out for women like you. 304 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,249 You mean normal ones? 305 00:23:10,923 --> 00:23:13,509 So just put your mouth over the hole... 306 00:23:16,346 --> 00:23:17,972 Okay. 307 00:23:21,976 --> 00:23:23,436 And inhale. 308 00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:49,170 I don't want to talk to somebody trying to calm me. 309 00:23:49,253 --> 00:23:51,005 - Get somebody in charge. - I am in charge! 310 00:23:51,089 --> 00:23:53,601 I don't want to talk to some flunky pig trying to calm me. 311 00:23:53,602 --> 00:23:54,884 What's he doing? 312 00:23:54,967 --> 00:23:57,095 - Will you get back over there? - What are they there for? 313 00:23:57,178 --> 00:23:59,806 Will you get the fuck back? Get back there, will ya? 314 00:23:59,889 --> 00:24:01,224 - Look at him! - Get over there! 315 00:24:01,307 --> 00:24:03,935 - Go back there, man! - Get over there, will ya? 316 00:24:04,018 --> 00:24:06,979 He wants to kill me so bad, he can taste it! All right? 317 00:24:07,063 --> 00:24:09,691 Attica! Attica! Attica! 318 00:24:10,733 --> 00:24:13,903 Attica! Attica! 319 00:24:13,986 --> 00:24:17,031 Attica! Attica! Attica! 320 00:24:17,115 --> 00:24:20,743 I was so confused, I was doing insane things. 321 00:24:22,286 --> 00:24:23,705 What sort of things, Leon? 322 00:24:28,626 --> 00:24:29,752 After the wedding... 323 00:24:31,087 --> 00:24:33,506 I ran off for ten days to Atlantic City. 324 00:24:35,007 --> 00:24:36,551 Sonny was frantic. 325 00:24:37,301 --> 00:24:38,594 He knew I'd been drinking, 326 00:24:38,678 --> 00:24:41,013 he didn't know where I was, who I was with. 327 00:24:42,598 --> 00:24:45,351 Well, I couldn't explain the things I did. 328 00:24:46,269 --> 00:24:47,895 So I went to a psychiatrist... 329 00:24:48,563 --> 00:24:49,689 who told me... 330 00:24:50,815 --> 00:24:54,277 that I was a woman trapped in a man's body. 331 00:25:01,451 --> 00:25:03,703 So they were both homosexuals, 332 00:25:03,786 --> 00:25:05,037 but he was married, 333 00:25:05,121 --> 00:25:08,833 and his boyfriend wanted to become a woman, which is confusing. 334 00:25:08,916 --> 00:25:11,335 - You really gotta get out more, Holden. - It was mixed up. 335 00:25:11,419 --> 00:25:14,046 - You didn't like it? - No, I really liked it. 336 00:25:14,130 --> 00:25:16,799 It was just so... sad. 337 00:25:16,883 --> 00:25:20,344 He was obviously very disturbed, but somehow I liked him. 338 00:25:20,428 --> 00:25:22,638 - Yeah, you have empathy. - Yeah. 339 00:25:23,389 --> 00:25:24,474 Empathy. 340 00:25:25,016 --> 00:25:27,810 I really liked the dialogue. It was just very real. 341 00:25:27,894 --> 00:25:29,187 When I started at the Academy, 342 00:25:29,270 --> 00:25:32,148 they would send women out of the room if there was any of that talk. 343 00:25:32,231 --> 00:25:34,484 They called it "deviant terminology." 344 00:25:34,567 --> 00:25:36,819 We even had a list of words we had to memorize. 345 00:25:36,903 --> 00:25:38,613 Really? Which words? 346 00:25:39,989 --> 00:25:41,032 You know... 347 00:25:41,115 --> 00:25:44,494 fuck, shit, pussy... blow job. 348 00:25:46,579 --> 00:25:47,613 Oh, fuck. 349 00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:49,056 Shit. 350 00:25:51,667 --> 00:25:53,085 Finger my pussy. 351 00:25:54,921 --> 00:25:57,131 Finger my pussy, I'll give you a blow job. 352 00:26:00,885 --> 00:26:02,845 All the bad words used in a sentence. 353 00:26:11,395 --> 00:26:13,397 It's classic he said-she said. 354 00:26:13,481 --> 00:26:15,464 He says she hit her head on the bedpost 355 00:26:15,465 --> 00:26:17,485 having consensual sexual intercourse. 356 00:26:17,568 --> 00:26:18,820 She says he knocked her out 357 00:26:18,903 --> 00:26:21,155 and dragged her into this motel room to rape her. 358 00:26:21,239 --> 00:26:23,518 We know she didn't hit her head on that bedpost 359 00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:25,201 because we've measured. 360 00:26:25,284 --> 00:26:27,078 Where do you propose you would go? 361 00:26:27,161 --> 00:26:29,080 University of Virginia in Charlottesville. 362 00:26:29,163 --> 00:26:30,164 Studying what? 363 00:26:30,248 --> 00:26:33,709 Contemporary Applied Criminal Psychology. Ratchet things up a notch. 364 00:26:33,793 --> 00:26:35,795 What exactly is it you think you're missing out on? 365 00:26:35,878 --> 00:26:37,713 We need to know the current academic thinking. 366 00:26:37,797 --> 00:26:39,757 No, you don't want to rely on academics, Holden. 367 00:26:39,841 --> 00:26:42,260 I'm not saying rely, just get updated. 368 00:26:42,343 --> 00:26:43,678 We just got updated. 369 00:26:43,761 --> 00:26:47,014 It's all in the library. 1972, everything was new. 370 00:26:47,098 --> 00:26:48,808 That was five years ago. 371 00:26:49,976 --> 00:26:51,310 What's the thinking now? 372 00:26:51,394 --> 00:26:52,603 Okay, look. 373 00:26:53,563 --> 00:26:56,107 There have been some fine psychological studies over the years, 374 00:26:56,190 --> 00:26:59,735 but these are people who don't understand the criminal mind. 375 00:26:59,819 --> 00:27:01,631 They understand their corner of the world, 376 00:27:01,632 --> 00:27:03,156 which is a very small corner. 377 00:27:03,239 --> 00:27:05,575 Well, they must know something. 378 00:27:10,329 --> 00:27:11,789 I'm going to level with you. 379 00:27:13,082 --> 00:27:16,419 I'm going to tell you something I really don't want you to repeat. 380 00:27:17,128 --> 00:27:22,216 As far as the Bureau is concerned, psychology is for backroom boys. 381 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:25,511 You understand what I'm trying to say? 382 00:27:27,305 --> 00:27:29,015 No. What's a "backroom boy"? 383 00:27:30,808 --> 00:27:32,351 It's just frowned upon. 384 00:27:34,687 --> 00:27:36,772 We should be using every resource we can. 385 00:27:38,357 --> 00:27:39,765 Talking to the smartest people we find 386 00:27:39,766 --> 00:27:41,861 from the broadest possible spectrum. 387 00:27:41,944 --> 00:27:44,405 - And we do. - Otherwise, it's like the military. 388 00:27:44,488 --> 00:27:46,991 - Hey, we recruited Elvis. - So did the military. 389 00:27:47,074 --> 00:27:48,826 The King doesn't do it for you? 390 00:27:48,910 --> 00:27:50,995 Hoover died over five years ago, 391 00:27:51,078 --> 00:27:54,916 and we're still recruiting accountants and lawyers like it's 1946. 392 00:27:54,999 --> 00:27:57,168 Actually, recruitment has tapered off. 393 00:27:57,251 --> 00:28:00,296 - We can't get accountants. - Well, then we're in trouble. 394 00:28:01,088 --> 00:28:03,382 All right. I'll scratch your back 395 00:28:03,466 --> 00:28:05,676 and recommend funding for you to audit a few classes, 396 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,055 but you will be expected to use the opportunity for recruitment. 397 00:28:09,972 --> 00:28:11,933 Speakers, lecturers, great minds. 398 00:28:12,016 --> 00:28:15,561 - Are you sure you want me doing that? - You're smart, you're idealistic... 399 00:28:15,770 --> 00:28:16,938 more than a little sensitive. 400 00:28:17,521 --> 00:28:18,689 They're gonna love you. 401 00:28:42,838 --> 00:28:45,341 - Hare Krishna. - Hare Krishna. 402 00:28:46,592 --> 00:28:49,345 - Hare Krishna. - And then, in 1872, 403 00:28:49,428 --> 00:28:54,308 Italian physician Cesare Lombroso drags us out of the Dark Ages 404 00:28:54,392 --> 00:28:57,103 and launches the scientific era in criminology 405 00:28:57,770 --> 00:29:01,107 by differentiating five criminal classes: 406 00:29:03,025 --> 00:29:04,318 the born criminal, 407 00:29:05,444 --> 00:29:06,946 insane criminal, 408 00:29:07,822 --> 00:29:09,448 criminal by passion, 409 00:29:10,491 --> 00:29:11,909 habitual criminal, 410 00:29:12,285 --> 00:29:14,954 and the occasional criminal. 411 00:29:15,037 --> 00:29:17,665 In other words, there are those that are born that way 412 00:29:18,165 --> 00:29:20,459 and those who become that way. 413 00:29:20,543 --> 00:29:22,461 And in 1965, there's this other breakthrough. 414 00:29:22,545 --> 00:29:24,380 This criminal psychology research project 415 00:29:24,463 --> 00:29:28,301 at Bellevue psychiatric hospital in New York couched it like this: 416 00:29:28,384 --> 00:29:31,304 personality and character 417 00:29:31,387 --> 00:29:35,725 far outweigh the presence of psychotic or defective diagnoses. 418 00:29:35,808 --> 00:29:38,561 In other words, by extrapolation... 419 00:29:39,395 --> 00:29:40,855 are criminals born... 420 00:29:42,356 --> 00:29:44,150 or are they formed? 421 00:30:05,004 --> 00:30:06,172 Do you mind if I sit? 422 00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:07,665 You're sitting. 423 00:30:11,677 --> 00:30:13,804 You know, I wasn't aware of that project at Bellevue. 424 00:30:13,888 --> 00:30:15,723 Well, you should be. 425 00:30:16,724 --> 00:30:19,435 Where I come from, criminals are always born that way. 426 00:30:19,518 --> 00:30:21,354 Some people will never stop believing that. 427 00:30:22,355 --> 00:30:23,939 - It's too easy. - It lets us off the hook. 428 00:30:24,023 --> 00:30:25,900 Well, essentially we're a puritan nation. 429 00:30:25,983 --> 00:30:29,236 We blame all our problems on a minority of bad apples. 430 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,739 What's your name again? I'm sorry. Is it Leon? 431 00:30:31,822 --> 00:30:32,982 Buchanan. 432 00:30:33,624 --> 00:30:34,700 Leo. 433 00:30:34,784 --> 00:30:35,818 Holden. 434 00:30:36,410 --> 00:30:38,537 - Holden Ford. - I know who you are. 435 00:30:39,497 --> 00:30:40,498 Everybody does. 436 00:30:40,581 --> 00:30:41,640 Yeah. 437 00:30:42,750 --> 00:30:44,752 I've noticed some of the looks I've been getting. 438 00:30:44,835 --> 00:30:47,713 Funny looks isn't a federal offense... yet. 439 00:30:48,381 --> 00:30:49,882 Yeah, they're just curious. 440 00:30:50,341 --> 00:30:51,509 Well, I'm not a spy. 441 00:30:51,926 --> 00:30:53,260 This isn't some kind of cover. 442 00:30:53,344 --> 00:30:57,139 Good. Because that... would have been a really pathetic cover. 443 00:30:58,099 --> 00:31:01,268 I'm actually an instructor too, but I'm just here to learn. 444 00:31:01,352 --> 00:31:04,230 And I'm here to talk to people like you. 445 00:31:04,313 --> 00:31:05,731 What do you want to talk about? 446 00:31:05,815 --> 00:31:08,192 I want to start a dialogue with you. 447 00:31:08,275 --> 00:31:09,443 Would be that okay? 448 00:31:10,236 --> 00:31:11,612 A dialogue about what? 449 00:31:12,154 --> 00:31:13,706 I'm an instructor in the Bureau's training 450 00:31:13,707 --> 00:31:15,908 and recruitment program out of Quantico. 451 00:31:15,991 --> 00:31:18,828 And we really need to hear from people like you. 452 00:31:18,911 --> 00:31:22,998 I'm sorry, are you trying to recruit me? 453 00:31:23,082 --> 00:31:25,751 Just to hear your perspectives and your insights. 454 00:31:28,129 --> 00:31:30,756 I understand... 455 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:33,843 perfectly. 456 00:31:36,345 --> 00:31:39,765 I'm sorry. You call yourself a professor of criminal psychology. 457 00:31:40,349 --> 00:31:43,310 But you won't even talk to the educational arm of the FBI? 458 00:31:43,394 --> 00:31:44,453 It's just... 459 00:31:45,271 --> 00:31:46,647 a sign of the times, man. 460 00:31:48,732 --> 00:31:51,485 - Lost your appetite? - Do these fucking hippies 461 00:31:51,569 --> 00:31:53,170 seriously believe that they're worthy 462 00:31:53,171 --> 00:31:55,281 of an enormously costly, labor-intensive 463 00:31:55,364 --> 00:31:57,199 federal surveillance operation? 464 00:31:57,283 --> 00:31:59,326 It sounds like the contempt is mutual. 465 00:31:59,702 --> 00:32:00,917 Don't you think that the traditional 466 00:32:00,918 --> 00:32:03,414 counterculture-law enforcement enmity 467 00:32:03,497 --> 00:32:05,124 is a little old hat by now? 468 00:32:05,624 --> 00:32:08,794 They'll never forgive you for putting a tail on John and Yoko. 469 00:32:09,628 --> 00:32:11,490 Frankly, I'm surprised to have aroused 470 00:32:11,491 --> 00:32:13,091 such a degree of fucking neuroses 471 00:32:13,174 --> 00:32:15,217 amongst supposedly intelligent people. 472 00:32:15,301 --> 00:32:17,595 Please, they're flattering themselves. 473 00:32:20,181 --> 00:32:22,057 They think you're wearing a wire. 474 00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:27,313 There. You're one of us now. 475 00:32:27,396 --> 00:32:31,150 Okay, everything's all right. Come on. Right. Yeah. Okay. 476 00:32:33,277 --> 00:32:35,154 - Come on out, Sonny. - They're too close! 477 00:32:35,237 --> 00:32:37,865 Come on, get back! What the fuck are you doing? Get back! 478 00:32:37,948 --> 00:32:38,968 Get them back. 479 00:32:38,991 --> 00:32:40,868 - Get back, okay? - Come here. 480 00:32:41,577 --> 00:32:42,870 Come on out. 481 00:32:42,953 --> 00:32:45,080 Now take a look at this. Come on. 482 00:32:45,623 --> 00:32:47,374 Hey, look. Look up here. Look. 483 00:32:48,626 --> 00:32:49,685 Look. 484 00:32:50,586 --> 00:32:52,171 Look over here. Huh? 485 00:32:56,967 --> 00:32:59,428 Over there. Look. You got everything here, okay? 486 00:33:09,563 --> 00:33:12,107 Okay. So what are they doing wrong? 487 00:33:12,691 --> 00:33:15,778 - They're making him mad. - They're making him scared. 488 00:33:16,237 --> 00:33:19,990 - So? - We do not want him scared. 489 00:33:20,074 --> 00:33:22,660 We want him calm. 490 00:33:28,874 --> 00:33:30,229 Let me call and see what they say. 491 00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:32,920 I'll talk to them and ask, all right? 492 00:33:33,003 --> 00:33:35,047 Then we'll see. Anything else I can give you? 493 00:33:39,093 --> 00:33:41,512 Yeah, I want you to bring my wife down here. 494 00:33:42,429 --> 00:33:43,806 Okay, what do you give us? 495 00:33:44,056 --> 00:33:45,057 What do you want? 496 00:33:47,393 --> 00:33:51,981 The guy is robbing a bank to pay for a sex change for his boyfriend. 497 00:33:52,064 --> 00:33:54,400 He wants a helicopter with a piano. 498 00:33:54,942 --> 00:33:58,487 But more than anything, he wants to talk to his wife. 499 00:34:00,281 --> 00:34:02,700 - Complicated, right? - Yeah. 500 00:34:03,117 --> 00:34:04,451 Trust me on this. 501 00:34:05,286 --> 00:34:08,747 Always expect complicated. 502 00:34:08,831 --> 00:34:10,457 Okay, I need you to concentrate. 503 00:34:10,541 --> 00:34:13,919 Think of an opening salvo, then think where it could lead. 504 00:34:14,587 --> 00:34:15,921 No right or wrong answers, 505 00:34:16,005 --> 00:34:18,924 just use your imagination and see where it takes you. 506 00:34:19,383 --> 00:34:21,176 Start whenever you like. Go ahead. 507 00:34:24,054 --> 00:34:26,932 All right. I'm asking you to put the gun down, Mike. 508 00:34:27,016 --> 00:34:28,892 No way. Kiss my black ass, Mark. 509 00:34:28,976 --> 00:34:30,269 Wait, what? 510 00:34:30,811 --> 00:34:33,772 For the purpose of this exercise, I'm imagining I'm Negro. 511 00:34:35,482 --> 00:34:37,537 That's good. That's fine. Keep it going. 512 00:34:37,538 --> 00:34:39,320 Just whatever comes into your head. 513 00:34:40,446 --> 00:34:41,447 Okay. 514 00:34:42,114 --> 00:34:44,116 Then fuck you! I asked you to put that gun down. 515 00:34:44,658 --> 00:34:46,577 No, fuck you, you dumb cracker motherfucker. 516 00:34:46,660 --> 00:34:48,329 Wait, wait a minute. What is all that? 517 00:34:48,412 --> 00:34:49,538 It's jive talk. 518 00:34:49,622 --> 00:34:51,874 We don't need to get into that. Forget vernacular. 519 00:34:51,957 --> 00:34:54,335 In real life, people just press their demands. 520 00:34:54,418 --> 00:34:55,436 All right? 521 00:34:56,420 --> 00:34:57,671 Um... 522 00:34:58,797 --> 00:35:01,216 Uh... put the gun down, Steve. 523 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,511 We brought your children to see you. 524 00:35:04,595 --> 00:35:05,634 You what? 525 00:35:05,638 --> 00:35:10,643 Oh, my God. I lost custody. I haven't seen my children in years. 526 00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:12,886 Okay, good. 527 00:35:13,729 --> 00:35:15,473 Important not to talk to a divorced man 528 00:35:15,474 --> 00:35:17,650 about his children. Different tactic. 529 00:35:20,319 --> 00:35:23,489 All right, I asked nicely. Now put the fucking gun down. 530 00:35:23,572 --> 00:35:25,491 - Why don't you make me, faggot? - What?! 531 00:35:25,949 --> 00:35:27,284 I'm no faggot, motherfucker! 532 00:35:27,368 --> 00:35:29,745 Okay, let's dial it back a little. 533 00:35:29,828 --> 00:35:31,830 Excuse me. What is the point of this? 534 00:35:31,914 --> 00:35:33,165 Great question. 535 00:35:33,248 --> 00:35:35,834 Psychologically preparing you for reality. 536 00:35:35,918 --> 00:35:38,295 And the reality is, you have to talk to them. 537 00:35:38,379 --> 00:35:41,048 Somebody demands the impossible, you can't just shoot him. 538 00:35:41,131 --> 00:35:42,758 Then why have so much firearms training? 539 00:35:42,841 --> 00:35:45,844 Well, because that is a tactical response for when all else fails. 540 00:35:45,928 --> 00:35:48,055 But if local law enforcement can't shut something down, 541 00:35:48,138 --> 00:35:50,641 then it has required a tactical response. 542 00:35:50,724 --> 00:35:53,143 Okay, but wouldn't you like to try something different? 543 00:35:53,352 --> 00:35:56,021 Or would you rather use firearms all the time? 544 00:35:57,606 --> 00:36:00,025 - I'd kind of rather use firearms. - Why? 545 00:36:01,610 --> 00:36:02,669 Seems safer? 546 00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:09,618 Holden, I enjoyed that immensely. What do you call that? 547 00:36:09,702 --> 00:36:12,621 It's just role-playing in a simulated hostage situation. 548 00:36:12,705 --> 00:36:14,248 - Stimulated? - Simulated. 549 00:36:14,331 --> 00:36:16,625 All that profanity, is that an academic thing? 550 00:36:16,709 --> 00:36:19,169 They're improvising. They're learning to create a dialogue. 551 00:36:19,253 --> 00:36:21,255 How is all that cursing creating a dialogue? 552 00:36:21,338 --> 00:36:22,798 It's not really about the cursing. 553 00:36:22,881 --> 00:36:25,968 I'm sure it's all quite modern and fashionable in academic circles, 554 00:36:26,051 --> 00:36:28,178 but it seems very theatrical to me. 555 00:36:28,262 --> 00:36:30,139 Well, in criminal psych, role-playing exercises 556 00:36:30,222 --> 00:36:32,933 are considered a valuable tool, with or without the cursing. 557 00:36:33,016 --> 00:36:35,728 I think we have enough exercises here at the Academy. 558 00:36:36,228 --> 00:36:38,147 If you're going to start implementing new ones, 559 00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:40,190 talk to somebody in the Behavioral Science Unit. 560 00:36:40,191 --> 00:36:41,191 They can help? 561 00:36:41,191 --> 00:36:44,361 They can go over the soundness of the psychology. That's their thing. 562 00:36:44,445 --> 00:36:45,821 Okay, good idea. 563 00:36:45,904 --> 00:36:47,990 - Why don't I set that up? - Okay. 564 00:36:48,073 --> 00:36:49,616 Thank you, yes. 565 00:37:06,300 --> 00:37:08,427 Holden, right? Holden Ford? 566 00:37:08,510 --> 00:37:09,510 Hi. 567 00:37:09,553 --> 00:37:11,430 Bill Tench. Behavioral Science. 568 00:37:11,513 --> 00:37:13,182 Oh, great to meet you. 569 00:37:13,766 --> 00:37:16,518 - You had a beer with Peter Rathman? - Interesting guy. 570 00:37:17,019 --> 00:37:19,772 I was kind of disturbed by what he said. 571 00:37:19,855 --> 00:37:20,873 You were, huh? 572 00:37:21,899 --> 00:37:24,485 - Can we sit? - Yes. Please. 573 00:37:30,741 --> 00:37:33,243 - Smoke? - Oh, uh... 574 00:37:33,327 --> 00:37:34,787 I don't smoke when I eat. 575 00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:36,121 Want to go outside? 576 00:37:37,748 --> 00:37:39,583 I don't smoke when I don't eat either. 577 00:37:43,879 --> 00:37:46,173 So did Shepard talk to you about my thing? 578 00:37:46,423 --> 00:37:47,466 He did his best. 579 00:37:48,467 --> 00:37:49,468 What does that mean? 580 00:37:50,177 --> 00:37:52,721 He can be pretty old school. 581 00:37:54,264 --> 00:37:57,726 I call this place "the country club," because, you know, 582 00:37:57,810 --> 00:37:59,728 it can be a little starchy sometimes. 583 00:38:00,604 --> 00:38:01,855 I hear that. 584 00:38:03,690 --> 00:38:05,275 You went back to college, right? 585 00:38:07,903 --> 00:38:09,863 How old are you, 26, 27? 586 00:38:09,947 --> 00:38:11,006 Twenty-nine. 587 00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:13,075 That's interesting. 588 00:38:13,575 --> 00:38:15,369 Lot of guys your age don't want to go back to school 589 00:38:15,452 --> 00:38:18,038 because they feel it undermines their authority. 590 00:38:18,664 --> 00:38:21,416 I was hoping it would give me some authority. 591 00:38:22,584 --> 00:38:24,211 He's got you doing recruitment, right? 592 00:38:24,294 --> 00:38:28,757 Yeah, well, I'm there, so I might as well make myself useful. 593 00:38:29,883 --> 00:38:31,885 Most guys don't want to get stuck doing recruitment. 594 00:38:31,969 --> 00:38:33,971 They're busy working their way upwards. 595 00:38:34,513 --> 00:38:36,723 I guess I'm busy working my way sideways. 596 00:38:37,724 --> 00:38:40,978 You are what they call a "blue flamer." You know what that is? 597 00:38:42,479 --> 00:38:43,564 No. What does that mean? 598 00:38:43,647 --> 00:38:44,940 You're so eager to do good, 599 00:38:45,023 --> 00:38:47,943 you have a big, blue flame shooting out of your asshole. 600 00:38:48,777 --> 00:38:51,697 Oh... is that bad? 601 00:38:52,114 --> 00:38:54,658 Just take it slow. You'll get there in the end. 602 00:38:56,702 --> 00:38:58,954 I'm just trying to be a better instructor. 603 00:39:00,831 --> 00:39:03,542 Right. Well, I was thinking about that. 604 00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:06,545 I started this thing a couple of years ago. 605 00:39:06,628 --> 00:39:09,715 I go on the road and give classes in various police departments 606 00:39:09,798 --> 00:39:12,551 from Buffalo, New York to San Diego, California. 607 00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:15,470 There's a million cops out there who want to know what we know. 608 00:39:15,971 --> 00:39:19,057 So I go to them, give them a distillation of what we teach here, 609 00:39:19,141 --> 00:39:20,726 and they tell me what they've been doing. 610 00:39:20,809 --> 00:39:21,894 They learn something, 611 00:39:21,977 --> 00:39:25,355 and I learn something firsthand by getting involved on their level. 612 00:39:26,023 --> 00:39:27,399 But it's a big job, you know? 613 00:39:27,482 --> 00:39:29,651 I'm up to my neck in local law enforcement. 614 00:39:32,446 --> 00:39:34,031 Would you want some help with that? 615 00:39:36,575 --> 00:39:38,076 Maybe we could help each other. 616 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:51,340 What? 617 00:39:51,423 --> 00:39:52,499 Nothing. 618 00:39:57,137 --> 00:39:58,597 Don't be shy. 619 00:39:59,097 --> 00:40:00,223 Did you orgasm? 620 00:40:00,307 --> 00:40:01,725 Did I orgasm? 621 00:40:01,808 --> 00:40:02,809 What? 622 00:40:03,393 --> 00:40:06,855 - I can't believe you're from New York. - You could be faking, right? 623 00:40:07,105 --> 00:40:08,941 You can't tell if a woman is faking? 624 00:40:09,024 --> 00:40:11,193 I can't even tell if a woman is interested. 625 00:40:11,860 --> 00:40:14,988 But you can tell if somebody's lying, like a suspect. 626 00:40:15,072 --> 00:40:16,782 That is not the same thing. 627 00:40:16,865 --> 00:40:18,742 Pretend I'm a suspect. 628 00:40:18,825 --> 00:40:21,328 Use your powers of deduction, Agent Ford. 629 00:40:22,537 --> 00:40:24,012 How can you figure out the criminal mind 630 00:40:24,013 --> 00:40:26,291 if you can't figure out your girlfriend? 631 00:40:27,709 --> 00:40:28,961 Are you my girlfriend? 632 00:40:29,378 --> 00:40:32,881 Wait. Is this another of those things you just can't tell? 633 00:40:33,423 --> 00:40:35,634 I don't know. Are you? 634 00:40:36,218 --> 00:40:38,804 What do you need, an exchange of rings over milkshakes? 635 00:40:38,887 --> 00:40:40,806 I just didn't want to presume anything. 636 00:40:41,264 --> 00:40:43,684 Really, Holden, sometimes you're like a monk. 637 00:40:44,559 --> 00:40:47,604 Surely people in law enforcement shouldn't be so naive. 638 00:40:47,688 --> 00:40:49,272 Does it make you uncomfortable... 639 00:40:50,565 --> 00:40:52,067 sleeping with a federal agent? 640 00:40:54,820 --> 00:40:56,238 Where did that come from? 641 00:40:58,782 --> 00:41:00,117 Does it turn you on? 642 00:41:01,660 --> 00:41:02,828 Not at all. 643 00:41:08,125 --> 00:41:09,501 Then why are you with me? 644 00:41:10,836 --> 00:41:12,337 You're smart. 645 00:41:14,965 --> 00:41:16,508 You're nice. 646 00:41:17,384 --> 00:41:18,593 Okay. 647 00:41:19,761 --> 00:41:21,930 What? Those are good things. 648 00:41:24,766 --> 00:41:26,852 And you're devastating. 649 00:41:28,353 --> 00:41:29,479 Well, thank you. 650 00:41:30,272 --> 00:41:31,690 Oh, come on, you're not leaving. 651 00:41:32,941 --> 00:41:34,317 I have to get up early. 652 00:41:34,901 --> 00:41:36,611 Tomorrow's the first day of school. 653 00:41:37,195 --> 00:41:39,489 Ninety-nine plus KFMH, 654 00:41:39,490 --> 00:41:42,951 Muscatine, Davenport in Iowa Central... 655 00:41:53,962 --> 00:41:55,047 ♪ Hold the line ♪ 656 00:41:58,884 --> 00:42:01,720 Today might be a baptism of fire. They're gonna be on edge. 657 00:42:01,803 --> 00:42:03,388 - Just follow my lead. - What happened? 658 00:42:03,805 --> 00:42:05,932 They caught a big case and they're spooked. 659 00:42:06,016 --> 00:42:07,476 Don't talk to any reporters. 660 00:42:08,185 --> 00:42:11,271 And please, for God's sake, don't say we're from the FBI. 661 00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:18,487 ♪ It's not in the words ♪ ♪ That you told me, girl ♪ 662 00:42:24,242 --> 00:42:27,204 Excuse me, gentlemen. I'm from the Fairfield Chronicle. 663 00:42:27,287 --> 00:42:29,414 You gentlemen are from the FBI, is that right? 664 00:42:29,498 --> 00:42:31,083 How are things with the Jeffries case? 665 00:42:31,166 --> 00:42:32,793 No idea what you're talking about. 666 00:42:32,876 --> 00:42:34,461 The Jeffries case. Ada Jeffries. 667 00:42:34,544 --> 00:42:37,631 - You can come back for the rest. - The woman found behind the church. 668 00:42:37,714 --> 00:42:40,300 - We're here for something else. - The woman and her little boy. 669 00:42:40,383 --> 00:42:41,760 We're instructors. 670 00:42:41,843 --> 00:42:43,303 Are you from the Methodist church? 671 00:42:43,386 --> 00:42:45,388 Do we look like we're from the Methodist church? 672 00:42:45,472 --> 00:42:46,531 Yes. 673 00:42:46,973 --> 00:42:47,974 Make a hole. 674 00:42:49,559 --> 00:42:50,727 Good to see ya. 675 00:42:51,937 --> 00:42:54,147 Motive, means, opportunity. 676 00:42:54,231 --> 00:42:57,609 The three pillars of criminal investigation for the last century. 677 00:42:58,193 --> 00:43:01,738 But it's 1977, and suddenly motive is elusive. 678 00:43:03,406 --> 00:43:04,783 What, why, who. 679 00:43:05,325 --> 00:43:08,203 "What happened?" "Why did it happen that way?" 680 00:43:08,286 --> 00:43:10,122 "Who did it?" 681 00:43:11,164 --> 00:43:14,292 A person is murdered. Not sexually assaulted, not robbed. 682 00:43:14,668 --> 00:43:16,711 But the body is mutilated posthumously. 683 00:43:17,212 --> 00:43:19,881 The question is not only why did the killer do it, 684 00:43:19,965 --> 00:43:22,050 but why did the killer do it this way? 685 00:43:23,135 --> 00:43:27,222 We are now talking about... psychology. 686 00:43:30,267 --> 00:43:33,228 When I'm involved in a hostage negotiation, 687 00:43:33,311 --> 00:43:35,564 the perpetrator is standing right in front of me, 688 00:43:35,647 --> 00:43:38,900 but I have to gauge how much destruction he's capable of, 689 00:43:39,401 --> 00:43:41,767 what in his background or personal life 690 00:43:41,768 --> 00:43:43,665 that could've triggered today's standoff. 691 00:43:43,738 --> 00:43:45,282 Some people are just crazy, right? 692 00:43:45,824 --> 00:43:47,993 Crazy in that they have no reason for what they do? 693 00:43:48,076 --> 00:43:49,411 - Yeah. - Okay. 694 00:43:49,494 --> 00:43:51,305 But keep in mind, often, this crazy person 695 00:43:51,306 --> 00:43:53,955 has never done anything like this before. 696 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:55,834 Something just... flips. 697 00:43:56,418 --> 00:43:58,295 - Like a switch. - Good, a switch. 698 00:43:58,795 --> 00:44:00,255 Anybody know what flips it? 699 00:44:01,214 --> 00:44:03,508 - Getting fired? - Fired. Yes. 700 00:44:03,592 --> 00:44:04,968 - Getting dumped. - Absolutely. 701 00:44:05,051 --> 00:44:07,262 A romantic breakup is a top trigger. 702 00:44:07,762 --> 00:44:11,558 When we know who the criminal is, we can understand what set him off. 703 00:44:11,641 --> 00:44:13,852 In a homicide situation, we do the inverse. 704 00:44:14,269 --> 00:44:18,607 We ask, "What happened? Why did it happen that way?" 705 00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:20,817 Which narrows the search for who did it. 706 00:44:21,318 --> 00:44:24,613 But what if our killer is someone who's not rational? 707 00:44:31,286 --> 00:44:33,205 Why do we behave the way we do? 708 00:44:34,748 --> 00:44:38,835 It's a question asked by poets, and philosophers, and theologians 709 00:44:38,919 --> 00:44:40,545 since time immemorial. 710 00:44:40,962 --> 00:44:44,799 The playground of Shakespeare, Dostoyevsky, Freud. 711 00:44:44,883 --> 00:44:46,516 The stuff of Crime and Punishment 712 00:44:46,517 --> 00:44:48,470 and Beyond the Pleasure Principal. 713 00:44:49,721 --> 00:44:50,883 The greatest minds in history 714 00:44:50,884 --> 00:44:53,975 have been fascinated by the vagaries of behavior. 715 00:44:56,519 --> 00:44:59,342 So, in a case where we can't immediately 716 00:44:59,343 --> 00:45:01,524 divine a motive, we shouldn't panic. 717 00:45:02,233 --> 00:45:04,069 It's a riddle, but it can be solved. 718 00:45:04,152 --> 00:45:08,031 It's complex, but... it's human. 719 00:45:10,325 --> 00:45:12,327 Thank you, Holden. 720 00:45:13,495 --> 00:45:15,538 That was very... illuminating. 721 00:45:18,667 --> 00:45:21,211 So what the hell's Beyond the Pleasure Principle? 722 00:45:21,294 --> 00:45:24,130 - By Freud? - So this is about sex? 723 00:45:24,214 --> 00:45:26,800 Actually, it's where he looks for human impulses beyond sex, 724 00:45:26,883 --> 00:45:28,927 - specifically the death drive. - What's that? 725 00:45:29,010 --> 00:45:31,972 Something my kid does with a stick shift. 726 00:45:32,055 --> 00:45:34,516 Freud suggests that there's an innate desire for destruction, 727 00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:36,893 based on the propensity for matter to return... 728 00:45:36,977 --> 00:45:38,937 - What does this have to do with motive? - Well... 729 00:45:39,354 --> 00:45:43,358 we've always looked at motive as need or greed, right? 730 00:45:43,441 --> 00:45:46,319 - Guy steals a TV to sell it to buy drugs. - Exactly. 731 00:45:46,403 --> 00:45:49,406 But let's say, while he's at it, he steals your wife's panties, too. 732 00:45:49,489 --> 00:45:51,199 If he stole my wife's panties, I'd be amazed. 733 00:45:51,282 --> 00:45:53,827 Well, he's not selling those. 734 00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:56,204 So why does he do it? Is it merely prurient? 735 00:45:56,287 --> 00:45:58,790 He could be motivated by something he doesn't even understand. 736 00:45:58,873 --> 00:46:01,126 Our new quest, like Freud, 737 00:46:01,209 --> 00:46:04,796 is to look beyond what we assume are obvious impulses. 738 00:46:04,879 --> 00:46:06,548 So why didn't you just say that? 739 00:46:11,261 --> 00:46:14,431 They don't want to learn. What are we even doing here? 740 00:46:14,681 --> 00:46:16,558 Don't make it too complicated. 741 00:46:16,808 --> 00:46:18,018 What's wrong with complicated? 742 00:46:18,101 --> 00:46:20,979 There's complicated and there's too complicated, Holden. 743 00:46:24,190 --> 00:46:27,110 We used to do this experiment in social psychology. 744 00:46:27,652 --> 00:46:28,987 Uh-huh. What was that? 745 00:46:29,362 --> 00:46:32,991 You get onto a crowded elevator, and you face the opposite direction, 746 00:46:33,074 --> 00:46:36,578 the back of the elevator, and everybody freaks out. 747 00:46:37,078 --> 00:46:40,415 They're uncomfortable for reasons they can't even articulate. 748 00:46:41,499 --> 00:46:45,837 But if you turn around and face the front, everybody relaxes. 749 00:46:46,421 --> 00:46:49,049 Okay. Well, how do we do that? 750 00:46:51,968 --> 00:46:53,344 What do we have in common? 751 00:46:55,472 --> 00:46:56,681 What unites us? 752 00:46:58,683 --> 00:47:01,561 What keeps us all awake at night? 753 00:47:05,398 --> 00:47:09,194 Monster. Right? 754 00:47:10,153 --> 00:47:11,571 I think we can all agree. 755 00:47:13,656 --> 00:47:15,492 But what do you really know about him? 756 00:47:16,367 --> 00:47:19,079 Did you know that his mother was a jailbird and a prostitute? 757 00:47:19,454 --> 00:47:21,122 Did you know when he was ten years old, 758 00:47:21,206 --> 00:47:24,042 she palmed him off onto his sadistic, Bible-thumping uncle 759 00:47:24,125 --> 00:47:25,967 who beat him within an inch of his life 760 00:47:25,968 --> 00:47:28,713 and taunted him to act like a man? 761 00:47:29,547 --> 00:47:31,508 Charles responded to that by becoming a pimp 762 00:47:31,591 --> 00:47:34,302 and an armed robber, and was incarcerated for over 20 years, 763 00:47:34,385 --> 00:47:36,387 where he continued to be brutalized. 764 00:47:36,471 --> 00:47:41,309 In 1967, he was paroled, during the Summer of Love. 765 00:47:42,102 --> 00:47:43,478 And our nightmare began. 766 00:47:50,985 --> 00:47:52,403 - Jesus! - Come on! 767 00:47:54,656 --> 00:47:58,034 Here we have a child who was unwanted, unloved, regularly beaten, 768 00:47:58,118 --> 00:47:59,869 and repeatedly institutionalized. 769 00:47:59,953 --> 00:48:03,998 Now, might this not have had some sort of an effect on him? 770 00:48:04,666 --> 00:48:07,085 - He was born that way. - What way? 771 00:48:07,669 --> 00:48:10,213 - Just bad. - Can we be a little bit more specific? 772 00:48:10,296 --> 00:48:12,507 Technically, he didn't kill anybody. 773 00:48:12,590 --> 00:48:15,927 Look at those eyes. How can you not say that dude's evil? 774 00:48:16,010 --> 00:48:19,681 That's a little bit Old Testament, don't you think? 775 00:48:19,764 --> 00:48:23,518 Good, evil, black, white, it's easy. 776 00:48:23,893 --> 00:48:26,729 But who in this room has a life that's easy? 777 00:48:27,564 --> 00:48:30,066 Circumstances affect behavior. 778 00:48:30,733 --> 00:48:32,777 When we look at Manson's background, 779 00:48:32,861 --> 00:48:36,322 the real question is, how could we not have seen this coming? 780 00:48:36,406 --> 00:48:37,465 We did. 781 00:48:37,907 --> 00:48:39,075 I'm sorry? 782 00:48:39,159 --> 00:48:42,620 He was institutionalized because we could see it coming. 783 00:48:42,704 --> 00:48:45,623 Okay, but I'm saying maybe, just maybe, 784 00:48:46,166 --> 00:48:49,002 locking him up his young life helped make him what he was. 785 00:48:49,085 --> 00:48:50,795 - No. - What the fuck? 786 00:48:50,879 --> 00:48:53,256 They locked him up because of what he did. 787 00:48:53,339 --> 00:48:54,799 They already knew what he was. 788 00:48:54,883 --> 00:48:57,969 Okay, guys, I'm not asking anybody to feel sorry for Charles Manson. 789 00:48:58,052 --> 00:49:00,805 If he were here, I'd shoot him dead. No one would stop me. 790 00:49:00,806 --> 00:49:01,806 Right. 791 00:49:01,806 --> 00:49:04,017 What Holden's trying to say is maybe it's both. 792 00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:06,269 The one impacting on the other in a vicious circle. 793 00:49:06,352 --> 00:49:08,521 Nobody has all the answers. 794 00:49:08,605 --> 00:49:11,524 - We have some answers. - We should be asking questions. 795 00:49:11,608 --> 00:49:12,859 No shit. 796 00:49:12,942 --> 00:49:15,361 Well, I'll just tell my buddies in Robbery-Homicide 797 00:49:15,445 --> 00:49:17,697 who were there when the corpses were found, 798 00:49:17,780 --> 00:49:21,034 that they may have overlooked a difficult upbringing. 799 00:49:21,117 --> 00:49:22,493 You were LAPD? 800 00:49:22,577 --> 00:49:23,912 Twenty-two years. 801 00:49:25,163 --> 00:49:26,289 You worked Manson? 802 00:49:26,372 --> 00:49:28,583 No, but I knew every single man who did. 803 00:49:29,959 --> 00:49:31,753 How many homicides have you worked? 804 00:49:35,506 --> 00:49:38,384 Figure out who you're talking to before you tell a sob story 805 00:49:38,468 --> 00:49:40,220 about little Chuckie Manson. 806 00:49:40,303 --> 00:49:42,555 They wrote "pigs" on the wall in their victims' blood. 807 00:49:42,639 --> 00:49:44,182 They completely missed my point. 808 00:49:44,265 --> 00:49:47,560 In the future, ask if anyone's worked a case before you bring it up. 809 00:49:47,644 --> 00:49:50,480 - Know your fucking audience. - Oh, shit. 810 00:49:51,439 --> 00:49:53,733 It's okay, they always do this. 811 00:49:53,816 --> 00:49:55,568 Just be a good listener. 812 00:49:55,652 --> 00:49:56,669 Gentlemen. 813 00:49:58,238 --> 00:49:59,239 Frank McGraw. 814 00:50:00,198 --> 00:50:02,200 I didn't mean to embarrass anybody back there. 815 00:50:02,283 --> 00:50:03,409 Not a problem. 816 00:50:03,493 --> 00:50:05,578 We're all a little tense around here. 817 00:50:05,662 --> 00:50:08,346 You must have heard about the mother and child 818 00:50:08,347 --> 00:50:09,347 who were murdered recently. 819 00:50:09,415 --> 00:50:12,210 - Ada Jeffries and her boy. - We've seen reporters. 820 00:50:13,419 --> 00:50:15,004 She was bound, 821 00:50:15,088 --> 00:50:17,382 stabbed repeatedly about the chest and face. 822 00:50:18,049 --> 00:50:19,300 The boy's throat was cut. 823 00:50:19,384 --> 00:50:22,387 Rough one. 824 00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:26,307 I don't understand entirely what you're talking about with psychology. 825 00:50:27,684 --> 00:50:30,103 I don't understand much of anything anymore. 826 00:50:30,186 --> 00:50:31,771 What's on your mind, Frank? 827 00:50:34,065 --> 00:50:36,651 - I hate to bother. - No, by all means. Bother us. 828 00:50:43,116 --> 00:50:46,995 When I left Los Angeles, I thought I'd gone far enough. 829 00:50:49,789 --> 00:50:53,293 Ada was the kind of woman who wouldn't say boo to a goose. 830 00:50:53,835 --> 00:50:56,587 She came from a deeply religious family in Arkansas. 831 00:50:57,130 --> 00:50:59,924 When they found out she was pregnant, they put her out. 832 00:51:00,425 --> 00:51:02,969 She lived in a rooming house in Libertyville. 833 00:51:03,052 --> 00:51:07,599 No drugs, no alcohol, never had a brush with the law. 834 00:51:08,349 --> 00:51:10,518 The boy was polite and quiet. 835 00:51:11,185 --> 00:51:13,938 She had him in Sunday school at the Methodist church. 836 00:51:14,272 --> 00:51:17,442 She would sweep the steps every evening, 837 00:51:18,359 --> 00:51:19,777 just to be of service. 838 00:51:21,529 --> 00:51:22,864 I never met Ada. 839 00:51:23,581 --> 00:51:24,657 Every now and again, 840 00:51:24,741 --> 00:51:27,452 I'd see her and her son walk along the road into town. 841 00:51:28,536 --> 00:51:29,746 They didn't have a car. 842 00:51:32,457 --> 00:51:34,208 Landlady found the bodies. 843 00:51:37,253 --> 00:51:38,504 They had been dead... 844 00:51:40,715 --> 00:51:41,716 four days. 845 00:51:47,972 --> 00:51:49,807 What people won't do to each other. 846 00:51:50,975 --> 00:51:52,560 Nothing people won't do. 847 00:51:54,687 --> 00:51:55,897 How can we help? 848 00:51:58,649 --> 00:52:01,652 She was found cuffed and lashed to the bed. 849 00:52:02,278 --> 00:52:04,572 A broomstick perforated her rectum. 850 00:52:05,573 --> 00:52:07,825 Whoever it was made the boy watch, 851 00:52:09,410 --> 00:52:11,204 then did the same thing to him. 852 00:52:12,455 --> 00:52:13,498 How'd he get in? 853 00:52:13,873 --> 00:52:16,667 Bathroom window. We think that's how he came and went. 854 00:52:17,251 --> 00:52:18,711 There was no sign of forcible entry. 855 00:52:19,462 --> 00:52:21,547 - No one heard a peep. - In a rooming house? 856 00:52:21,631 --> 00:52:25,259 My assumption is, he held a knife to the boy to keep her quiet, 857 00:52:26,094 --> 00:52:27,303 and vice versa. 858 00:52:27,387 --> 00:52:29,764 This falls clearly into the category of lust murder. 859 00:52:29,847 --> 00:52:31,557 By that I mean it's sexually motivated. 860 00:52:31,641 --> 00:52:34,102 That cannot be about horny. 861 00:52:34,185 --> 00:52:35,897 It's more about sexual gratification 862 00:52:35,898 --> 00:52:37,939 through the annihilation of another. 863 00:52:38,272 --> 00:52:41,025 - Did you find semen? - Found some on a throw cushion. 864 00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:44,112 It was blood type O. I know that's not much help. 865 00:52:44,195 --> 00:52:45,947 - In the victims? - No. 866 00:52:46,823 --> 00:52:49,117 - He didn't rape them. - He could have problems with sex. 867 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:50,451 That'd be a good bet. 868 00:52:50,535 --> 00:52:52,161 Could narrow things with your suspects. 869 00:52:52,245 --> 00:52:53,788 I don't have suspects. 870 00:52:53,871 --> 00:52:56,833 I don't have fingerprints, shoe prints, 871 00:52:56,916 --> 00:52:58,709 not so much as a single hair. 872 00:52:59,177 --> 00:53:00,211 Well... 873 00:53:00,294 --> 00:53:02,755 The fact that the killer left nothing behind is interesting. 874 00:53:02,839 --> 00:53:04,882 It must have been premeditated to a degree. 875 00:53:04,966 --> 00:53:08,136 He had gloves, he cleaned up after himself. 876 00:53:08,219 --> 00:53:09,762 You think he was stalking her? 877 00:53:09,846 --> 00:53:12,432 - Or she just caught his eye. - What about the boy? 878 00:53:13,057 --> 00:53:14,058 He was a witness. 879 00:53:14,142 --> 00:53:16,561 There are more expedient ways to get rid of a witness. 880 00:53:16,644 --> 00:53:18,896 - Why make the boy watch? - And why sodomize him? 881 00:53:18,980 --> 00:53:20,148 That's a good point. 882 00:53:20,690 --> 00:53:23,818 Is this crime about the woman or about the child? 883 00:53:27,155 --> 00:53:30,074 - You're asking me? - I was just posing questions. 884 00:53:31,367 --> 00:53:32,785 I get that. 885 00:53:32,869 --> 00:53:34,537 - The broomstick. - Yeah? 886 00:53:34,620 --> 00:53:37,540 Is it the same broomstick she used to sweep the church steps? 887 00:53:37,623 --> 00:53:39,750 - What if it is? - He might not be a congregant, 888 00:53:39,834 --> 00:53:41,170 maybe someone just passing through, 889 00:53:41,171 --> 00:53:44,046 but the church could be significant. 890 00:53:44,047 --> 00:53:45,064 Could be? 891 00:53:45,131 --> 00:53:47,258 With the idea of service. 892 00:53:48,342 --> 00:53:52,180 I think that there's a passage in Mark. 893 00:53:52,263 --> 00:53:54,682 Something about the "Son of Man." 894 00:53:55,516 --> 00:53:56,934 I don't follow. 895 00:53:57,018 --> 00:53:59,479 All I'm saying is, the broom may mean something. 896 00:53:59,562 --> 00:54:00,563 What? 897 00:54:02,190 --> 00:54:03,232 I don't know. 898 00:54:03,316 --> 00:54:05,276 It's hard to tell from just the photos. 899 00:54:08,362 --> 00:54:12,533 This woman was devoted to her child, tried hard, 900 00:54:12,617 --> 00:54:14,535 and some stranger came along and... 901 00:54:16,204 --> 00:54:19,457 Come on, Agent Ford, you got fancy methods. 902 00:54:19,540 --> 00:54:23,878 What does a broomstick in the ass of a dirt poor single mom mean? 903 00:54:29,425 --> 00:54:30,593 I don't know. 904 00:54:31,302 --> 00:54:32,470 You're kidding me. 905 00:54:32,553 --> 00:54:33,721 I don't understand it. 906 00:54:34,805 --> 00:54:37,975 - We can't help you with this. - We need more time to go over this. 907 00:54:38,059 --> 00:54:42,063 We are in the dark here. We don't know any more than you do. 908 00:54:44,065 --> 00:54:45,900 How fucking dare you? 909 00:54:46,734 --> 00:54:48,402 I'm sorry we wasted your time. 910 00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:56,828 Can I get these back to you? 911 00:55:13,594 --> 00:55:16,973 ♪ Crying ♪ 912 00:55:17,056 --> 00:55:19,642 ♪ Crying ♪ 913 00:55:19,725 --> 00:55:24,480 ♪ It's hard to understand ♪ 914 00:55:26,148 --> 00:55:31,571 ♪ That the touch of your hand ♪ 915 00:55:31,654 --> 00:55:33,781 ♪ Can start me crying ♪ 916 00:55:33,864 --> 00:55:35,700 - In the dark, huh? - We are. 917 00:55:35,783 --> 00:55:38,536 I have studied everything we have. I've taken this ride here, 918 00:55:38,619 --> 00:55:40,830 listened to everything you've been kind enough to teach, 919 00:55:40,913 --> 00:55:42,421 but we're talking about something 920 00:55:42,422 --> 00:55:43,749 we don't understand in the slightest. 921 00:55:43,833 --> 00:55:44,917 I was trying to help you. 922 00:55:45,001 --> 00:55:47,336 If you don't like it, go back to your college kids 923 00:55:47,420 --> 00:55:48,462 and we'll forget about it. 924 00:55:48,546 --> 00:55:49,922 Ada and her son were killed 925 00:55:50,006 --> 00:55:52,216 for reasons we are simply not equipped to understand. 926 00:55:52,300 --> 00:55:53,801 It wasn't lust murder. 927 00:55:53,884 --> 00:55:56,679 It wasn't some random thrill killer who was born bad, 928 00:55:56,762 --> 00:55:59,473 and it wasn't a pantie thief who wanted to change things up. 929 00:55:59,557 --> 00:56:00,850 It was an aberration. 930 00:56:00,933 --> 00:56:02,935 Let me tell you something about aberrant behavior. 931 00:56:03,019 --> 00:56:04,270 It's fucking aberrant. 932 00:56:04,353 --> 00:56:06,814 If we understood it, we'd be aberrant too. 933 00:56:06,897 --> 00:56:09,567 Fortunately, it's not incumbent upon us to write a dissertation. 934 00:56:09,650 --> 00:56:11,193 - Well, maybe we should. - Why? 935 00:56:12,278 --> 00:56:15,865 Our job is to give him something he could not have figured out himself. 936 00:56:15,948 --> 00:56:18,576 - I am sticking my neck out for you. - No disrespect. 937 00:56:18,659 --> 00:56:20,483 At the moment, I don't think we can say anything 938 00:56:20,484 --> 00:56:22,330 to McGraw with any certainty. 939 00:56:22,413 --> 00:56:24,540 Let me ask you something. Where are you from? 940 00:56:26,667 --> 00:56:29,545 I was born in New York, but it's kind of a mixed bag. 941 00:56:29,629 --> 00:56:32,757 Okay. Well, that's what you are right now, a mixed bag. 942 00:56:33,257 --> 00:56:35,885 A little college education, some experience on the street, 943 00:56:35,968 --> 00:56:38,095 some insight, a lot of horseshit. 944 00:56:38,179 --> 00:56:39,722 I agree with you. 945 00:56:39,805 --> 00:56:42,141 It's been one step forward, two steps back. 946 00:56:42,224 --> 00:56:44,602 Let me ask you something else. Do you have a girlfriend? 947 00:56:45,561 --> 00:56:48,022 - I do now, Bill, as it happens. - Okay. 948 00:56:48,105 --> 00:56:52,109 So next time you're a long way from home and you flip your shit, 949 00:56:52,193 --> 00:56:55,738 you find a pay phone and you tell it to your girlfriend. 950 00:56:56,489 --> 00:56:57,573 - Okay? - Okay. 951 00:56:57,657 --> 00:57:00,534 - How's that sound? - It sounds okay, Bill. 952 00:57:05,748 --> 00:57:12,213 ♪ Crying ♪ 953 00:57:12,296 --> 00:57:18,761 ♪ Over ♪ 954 00:57:18,844 --> 00:57:24,266 ♪ You ♪ 955 00:57:24,267 --> 00:57:29,267 - Synced and corrected by chamallow - - www.addic7ed.com -