1 00:00:05,667 --> 00:00:10,933 ♪ ♪ 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,367 Morgan Freeman: Every morning starts the same. 3 00:00:16,533 --> 00:00:20,367 Coffee and crossword. 4 00:00:21,733 --> 00:00:26,099 And every day things seem to get worse. 5 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:28,767 Religious conflict. 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,532 Climate change. 7 00:00:34,533 --> 00:00:38,700 It all seems so apocalyptic. 8 00:00:39,167 --> 00:00:41,999 None of this is new, however. 9 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,066 We've been predicting the end of the world for 10 00:00:44,067 --> 00:00:45,832 thousands of years. 11 00:00:45,833 --> 00:00:47,800 - From nostradamus - all the way back to the 12 00:00:47,803 --> 00:00:50,199 book of revelation. 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,834 Something about the drama of 14 00:00:52,835 --> 00:00:55,466 annihilation seems to grip us. 15 00:00:55,467 --> 00:00:59,166 Is it just human nature to worry and wonder about 16 00:00:59,167 --> 00:01:02,000 the end of days? 17 00:01:03,533 --> 00:01:06,733 Or is it really coming? 18 00:01:11,067 --> 00:01:15,066 I'm setting off on a journey to find out why 19 00:01:15,067 --> 00:01:18,200 so many religions predict an apocalypse. 20 00:01:18,667 --> 00:01:20,600 - Kim Haines-eitzen: This - beast has a human name, 21 00:01:20,603 --> 00:01:22,867 it's number is... 22 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:26,633 666. 23 00:01:28,633 --> 00:01:29,817 Morgan Freeman: To discover 24 00:01:29,818 --> 00:01:30,999 the roots of judgment day. 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,767 - Jodi magness: The suns - of light shall battle the 26 00:01:32,770 --> 00:01:34,466 suns of darkness. 27 00:01:34,467 --> 00:01:36,932 Morgan Freeman: Our ancient prophecies... 28 00:01:36,933 --> 00:01:38,333 Yoram hazony: There's no peace 29 00:01:38,334 --> 00:01:39,732 between us and our neighbors. 30 00:01:39,733 --> 00:01:41,000 Morgan Freeman: 31 00:01:41,001 --> 00:01:42,266 Reverberate today. 32 00:01:42,267 --> 00:01:44,267 Maajid nawaz: If these guys ever came to power, 33 00:01:44,268 --> 00:01:46,666 it would be hell on earth. 34 00:01:46,667 --> 00:01:47,850 Morgan Freeman: And to 35 00:01:47,851 --> 00:01:51,599 ask whether the end is really what we imagine... 36 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,167 Or if it's all just in our minds. 37 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,666 ♪ ♪ 38 00:02:08,667 --> 00:02:12,633 My first destination is Jerusalem. 39 00:02:13,933 --> 00:02:16,500 The spiritual set of the 40 00:02:16,501 --> 00:02:19,067 Jews, christians and muslims. 41 00:02:19,733 --> 00:02:22,532 All three of those fates predicted Jerusalem 42 00:02:22,533 --> 00:02:26,699 will play a role in the end of the world. 43 00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:28,700 It has long been a flash 44 00:02:28,701 --> 00:02:30,700 point for religious tensions. 45 00:02:36,633 --> 00:02:39,799 I've come here to meet yoram hazony, 46 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:44,567 an expert in the politics and theology of judaism. 47 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:51,999 I want to know why the end of days is so closely 48 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,032 tied to this city. 49 00:02:54,033 --> 00:02:56,266 Yoram hazony: You're looking at the absolute 50 00:02:56,267 --> 00:02:59,199 epicenter of the monotheistic world. 51 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,799 Right over there, that's the dome of the rock, 52 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,999 which according to islamic tradition, 53 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,532 Muhammad descended to heaven from right that spot, 54 00:03:06,533 --> 00:03:09,350 and over there, the... Of the mount of 55 00:03:09,351 --> 00:03:11,917 olives and gethsemane below where Jesus and his 56 00:03:11,918 --> 00:03:14,967 disciples used to meet, and of course down here 57 00:03:14,968 --> 00:03:17,950 is the western wall Plaza, the holiest shrine, 58 00:03:17,951 --> 00:03:19,432 prayer location for all of 59 00:03:19,433 --> 00:03:23,267 the Jewish people in judaism. 60 00:03:25,633 --> 00:03:28,332 This whole area is called the temple mount. 61 00:03:28,333 --> 00:03:30,067 - Morgan Freeman: - This is the temple mount? 62 00:03:30,070 --> 00:03:32,150 Yoram hazony: The temple was 63 00:03:32,151 --> 00:03:35,917 a building seven stories high, stood on top of 64 00:03:35,918 --> 00:03:39,200 this temple mount, on top of that flat area 65 00:03:39,201 --> 00:03:40,799 where those trees are. 66 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,766 Morgan Freeman: In 20 BC, king herod the great, 67 00:03:43,767 --> 00:03:46,999 build a temple where Jews could worship their god. 68 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,199 It was designed to last forever. 69 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,667 Yoram hazony: Herod says 70 00:03:51,668 --> 00:03:53,132 we're going to create the most 71 00:03:53,133 --> 00:03:54,633 spectacular physical structure 72 00:03:54,634 --> 00:03:56,132 in the entire middle east, 73 00:03:56,133 --> 00:03:57,866 maybe in the entire world. 74 00:03:57,867 --> 00:04:00,466 You can see these gigantic stones at the bottom, 75 00:04:00,467 --> 00:04:02,866 those are called herodian stones. 76 00:04:02,867 --> 00:04:05,067 The Jewish temple to the one 77 00:04:05,068 --> 00:04:09,184 god stood on top of that mount before there was 78 00:04:09,185 --> 00:04:11,100 islam or christianity. 79 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:13,550 Morgan Freeman: 80 00:04:13,551 --> 00:04:17,350 But, in the year 70ad, the romans sacked Jerusalem 81 00:04:17,351 --> 00:04:20,100 and demolished the temple. 82 00:04:22,067 --> 00:04:25,050 In the centuries since, Jews have come to 83 00:04:25,051 --> 00:04:29,866 pray at it's remains, the western or wailing wall. 84 00:04:29,867 --> 00:04:31,517 It was almost 1900 years 85 00:04:31,518 --> 00:04:33,166 before the site returned to 86 00:04:33,167 --> 00:04:38,667 direct Jewish control in 1967. 87 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:44,732 We are about 70 years into the new Israel, 88 00:04:44,733 --> 00:04:47,399 why hasn't the temple been rebuilt? 89 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,232 Yoram hazony: Two reasons. 90 00:04:49,233 --> 00:04:52,332 One is cause the Jews aren't ready and the other 91 00:04:52,333 --> 00:04:55,266 is cause the muslims aren't ready. 92 00:04:55,267 --> 00:04:58,367 - The state of - Israel militarily, politically 93 00:04:58,368 --> 00:05:01,117 controls this whole area, but the state of Israel 94 00:05:01,118 --> 00:05:02,599 gave the temple mount area 95 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,166 on the top to the muslims. 96 00:05:07,167 --> 00:05:09,232 Morgan Freeman: While the top of the mount is 97 00:05:09,233 --> 00:05:11,466 off limits to Jewish religious rights, 98 00:05:11,467 --> 00:05:13,832 there are sacred spaces underground, 99 00:05:13,833 --> 00:05:16,166 which yoram says will help me understand the 100 00:05:16,167 --> 00:05:20,299 Jewish vision for end times. 101 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:21,766 Yoram hazony: This is it. 102 00:05:21,767 --> 00:05:23,250 We've come to the closest 103 00:05:23,251 --> 00:05:24,732 that a human being can come 104 00:05:24,733 --> 00:05:26,467 to the holy of holies, the 105 00:05:26,468 --> 00:05:28,199 most sacred spot in the world. 106 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,366 That's the room in the temple that one human being 107 00:05:31,367 --> 00:05:34,199 would enter once a year, the high priest, 108 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,632 on yom kippur on the holiest day of the year and 109 00:05:36,633 --> 00:05:40,400 he would say god's name. 110 00:05:41,433 --> 00:05:42,700 Morgan Freeman: Orthodox 111 00:05:42,701 --> 00:05:43,966 Jews believe that without this 112 00:05:43,967 --> 00:05:47,966 temple, their religious rights are incomplete. 113 00:05:47,967 --> 00:05:50,084 So they await the day when 114 00:05:50,085 --> 00:05:52,200 their temple is rebuilt. 115 00:05:53,267 --> 00:05:55,099 Is there a Messiah? 116 00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:56,166 Yoram hazony: In judaism? 117 00:05:56,167 --> 00:05:57,566 Morgan Freeman: In judaism? 118 00:05:57,567 --> 00:06:00,032 Yoram hazony: Judaism invented the Messiah, 119 00:06:00,033 --> 00:06:01,617 but it's not the same Messiah 120 00:06:01,618 --> 00:06:03,199 that most people think about. 121 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:04,532 Morgan Freeman: Okay. 122 00:06:04,533 --> 00:06:06,400 - Yoram hazony: 'Cause when - christians think of the 123 00:06:06,403 --> 00:06:08,267 - Messiah, they think of - someone who's divine. 124 00:06:08,270 --> 00:06:09,499 Morgan Freeman: Yeah. 125 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:11,200 - Yoram hazony: - They think of, you know, 126 00:06:11,203 --> 00:06:12,866 the end of days. 127 00:06:12,867 --> 00:06:14,667 - What we have for - the Messiah is a man, 128 00:06:14,670 --> 00:06:16,084 a king of this earth was 129 00:06:16,085 --> 00:06:17,499 going to bring peace among 130 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:20,632 the nations in this world. 131 00:06:20,633 --> 00:06:22,033 - Morgan Freeman: And - he will not be divine. 132 00:06:22,036 --> 00:06:25,667 Yoram hazony: He will not be divine. 133 00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:27,750 Morgan Freeman: And yoram 134 00:06:27,751 --> 00:06:31,467 tells me this mortal Messiah has a very 135 00:06:31,468 --> 00:06:33,332 specific to do list. 136 00:06:33,333 --> 00:06:34,967 - Yoram hazony: - According to Jewish tradition, 137 00:06:34,970 --> 00:06:36,767 - he has three things - he is supposed to do. 138 00:06:36,770 --> 00:06:39,432 Number one, he's gonna reconstitute the Jewish 139 00:06:39,433 --> 00:06:41,299 kingdom of the Jewish today. 140 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:42,984 Number two, he's gonna bring 141 00:06:42,985 --> 00:06:44,666 peace with the neighbors. 142 00:06:44,667 --> 00:06:46,832 And number three, he's gonna rebuild that temple. 143 00:06:46,833 --> 00:06:48,733 - Morgan Freeman: - Rebuild the temple. 144 00:06:48,736 --> 00:06:51,017 Here we are, this is 2015, 145 00:06:51,018 --> 00:06:53,299 what are you gonna do now? 146 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:55,334 What is contemporary 147 00:06:55,335 --> 00:06:57,366 Jewish position on the temple? 148 00:06:57,367 --> 00:06:59,350 Yoram hazony: The Jews think 149 00:06:59,351 --> 00:07:01,332 of the world in terms of this 150 00:07:01,333 --> 00:07:03,700 dream that once existed in 151 00:07:03,701 --> 00:07:06,066 the world that was taken away, 152 00:07:06,067 --> 00:07:08,000 - the Jews want to bring - back into the world. 153 00:07:08,003 --> 00:07:10,000 - Morgan Freeman: That is the - reconstruction of the temple? 154 00:07:10,003 --> 00:07:11,900 - Yoram hazony: The - reconstruction of the temple 155 00:07:11,903 --> 00:07:14,000 as the crowning symbol of 156 00:07:14,001 --> 00:07:16,099 this era of justice and peace 157 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:18,732 that we're supposed to be assisting to bring back 158 00:07:18,733 --> 00:07:22,467 into the world. 159 00:07:23,367 --> 00:07:24,667 Morgan Freeman: Judaism is 160 00:07:24,668 --> 00:07:25,966 just one of many religions 161 00:07:25,967 --> 00:07:29,932 that envisions the coming of world peace one day. 162 00:07:29,933 --> 00:07:35,217 But, looking at this place, where so many 163 00:07:35,218 --> 00:07:37,133 religions intersect... 164 00:07:37,967 --> 00:07:41,400 It's hard to imagine peace coming. 165 00:07:43,133 --> 00:07:44,867 Rebuilding the temple now 166 00:07:44,868 --> 00:07:49,432 would almost certainly not herald an age of peace. 167 00:07:49,433 --> 00:07:51,383 It would obliterate some of 168 00:07:51,384 --> 00:07:53,332 the holiest sights in islam. 169 00:07:53,333 --> 00:07:56,000 In fact, it might even 170 00:07:56,001 --> 00:07:58,667 trigger an apocalyptic battle. 171 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,400 But, the idea of a violent 172 00:08:11,401 --> 00:08:14,000 end of the world is not new. 173 00:08:14,367 --> 00:08:17,932 2000 years ago, not all Jews anticipated the 174 00:08:17,933 --> 00:08:20,366 coming age of peace. 175 00:08:20,367 --> 00:08:22,866 One Jewish sect fervently anticipated 176 00:08:22,867 --> 00:08:25,532 the bloody apocalypse. 177 00:08:25,533 --> 00:08:27,017 Archaeologist, Jodi magness 178 00:08:27,018 --> 00:08:30,484 has taken me to the shores of the dead sea, where 179 00:08:30,485 --> 00:08:32,466 their ancient prophecies were 180 00:08:32,467 --> 00:08:35,867 miraculously preserved. 181 00:08:36,433 --> 00:08:38,033 - Jodi magness: - Welcome to qumran. 182 00:08:38,036 --> 00:08:39,432 Morgan Freeman: Qumran? 183 00:08:39,433 --> 00:08:41,600 - Right, right, this is where - the scrolls were found, right? 184 00:08:41,603 --> 00:08:43,066 Jodi magness: That's right. 185 00:08:43,067 --> 00:08:44,334 The dead sea scrolls were 186 00:08:44,335 --> 00:08:45,599 found in eleven caves in the 187 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,366 cliffs surrounding qumran. 188 00:08:48,367 --> 00:08:50,133 - Morgan Freeman: How - did they get up there? 189 00:08:50,136 --> 00:08:51,500 Jodi magness: Well, they were 190 00:08:51,501 --> 00:08:54,134 deposited in the caves by the people who lived at 191 00:08:54,135 --> 00:08:56,650 qumran who were members of a Jewish sect 192 00:08:56,651 --> 00:08:57,899 called the essenes. 193 00:08:57,900 --> 00:08:59,332 Morgan Freeman: Essenes? 194 00:08:59,333 --> 00:09:00,899 Jodi magness: Uh huh. 195 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:03,432 Morgan Freeman: So, why, why come here? 196 00:09:03,433 --> 00:09:05,367 - Jodi magness: They came out - here to the desert because 197 00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:07,466 they wanted to live in isolation apart 198 00:09:07,467 --> 00:09:10,533 from everyone else. 199 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:12,034 Morgan Freeman: Jody tells 200 00:09:12,035 --> 00:09:13,166 me that the essenes settled 201 00:09:13,167 --> 00:09:17,433 here at qumran around 100bc. 202 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,600 They believed an epic battle was coming. 203 00:09:21,867 --> 00:09:26,400 One that would bring on the end of the world. 204 00:09:29,567 --> 00:09:32,332 Thanks to the incredibly dry climate here, 205 00:09:32,333 --> 00:09:34,932 their apocalyptic writings have been preserved 206 00:09:34,933 --> 00:09:39,700 for more than 2,000 years. 207 00:09:40,133 --> 00:09:41,833 - Jodi magness: Looking over - the edge of the cliff here, 208 00:09:41,836 --> 00:09:43,532 look at what we see below us. 209 00:09:43,533 --> 00:09:47,067 Morgan Freeman: Holy cow! 210 00:09:48,067 --> 00:09:50,466 Jodi magness: This cave is very important. 211 00:09:50,467 --> 00:09:52,117 Approximately 700 different 212 00:09:52,118 --> 00:09:55,950 scrolls were found in this cave including 213 00:09:55,951 --> 00:09:58,133 fragments of the war scroll. 214 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:00,933 - Morgan Freeman: - The war scrolls, 215 00:10:00,936 --> 00:10:02,432 what now, what is that? 216 00:10:02,433 --> 00:10:04,599 Jodi magness: That's the scroll that describes a 217 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,534 40 year long apocalyptic war 218 00:10:06,535 --> 00:10:10,099 and one of the famous lines from this scroll says, 219 00:10:10,100 --> 00:10:12,399 "there shall be a war of terrible carnage. 220 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,267 The suns of light shall 221 00:10:14,268 --> 00:10:18,050 battle the suns of darkness and it shall end in 222 00:10:18,051 --> 00:10:19,967 eternal redemption." 223 00:10:23,667 --> 00:10:25,800 - Morgan Freeman: This war - that they're talking about, 224 00:10:25,803 --> 00:10:28,366 is that like a call to revolution? 225 00:10:28,367 --> 00:10:32,967 Or is it more like mythological expectation? 226 00:10:33,467 --> 00:10:35,233 - Jodi magness: When you - read the war scroll, 227 00:10:35,236 --> 00:10:36,950 one of the interesting 228 00:10:36,951 --> 00:10:40,300 things is that it interweaves real and then what 229 00:10:40,301 --> 00:10:41,932 seems to us to be fantasy. 230 00:10:41,933 --> 00:10:44,033 - That the people were - leading them into battle are 231 00:10:44,036 --> 00:10:46,499 priests who are dressed in priestly outfits, 232 00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:48,184 the fact that they talk 233 00:10:48,185 --> 00:10:49,866 about angels fighting in their 234 00:10:49,867 --> 00:10:51,267 midst, but the soldiers 235 00:10:51,268 --> 00:10:53,784 are equipped in the way that soldiers at that 236 00:10:53,785 --> 00:10:56,934 time were equipped, so you have a combination of 237 00:10:56,935 --> 00:10:58,966 what seems to be very real, 238 00:10:58,967 --> 00:11:01,184 combined with things that 239 00:11:01,185 --> 00:11:03,399 to us seem to be imaginary. 240 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,566 Morgan Freeman: Like many doomsday cults, 241 00:11:05,567 --> 00:11:08,399 the essenes believe the end was imminent. 242 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,332 And took precautions to be ready to meet god 243 00:11:11,333 --> 00:11:13,732 at any moment. 244 00:11:13,733 --> 00:11:15,966 Jodi magness: This is one of the ritual baths 245 00:11:15,967 --> 00:11:19,199 here at qumran. 246 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:20,600 They literally believed 247 00:11:20,601 --> 00:11:23,399 that god's presence dwelled in their midst. 248 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,400 According to biblical Jewish law, 249 00:11:25,401 --> 00:11:27,600 - if you enter the - presence of the god of Israel, 250 00:11:27,603 --> 00:11:29,999 you have to be in a state of ritual purity. 251 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,517 So all of these pools were 252 00:11:31,518 --> 00:11:33,032 filled by the flash flood 253 00:11:33,033 --> 00:11:34,633 waters, but water was not 254 00:11:34,634 --> 00:11:37,583 replenished over the course of the year, so it 255 00:11:37,584 --> 00:11:38,932 got pretty gross. 256 00:11:38,933 --> 00:11:42,132 Nevertheless, it was still considered pure for the 257 00:11:42,133 --> 00:11:43,932 purposes of ritual immersion. 258 00:11:43,933 --> 00:11:46,033 - Morgan Freeman: You - could probably come close to 259 00:11:46,036 --> 00:11:47,266 walking on it. 260 00:11:47,267 --> 00:11:48,967 - Jodi magness: Yeah, you - could probably cut it with 261 00:11:48,970 --> 00:11:51,366 a knife at that point. 262 00:11:51,367 --> 00:11:54,799 Morgan Freeman: So they were all here preparing 263 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,633 - themselves for - the apocalypse? 264 00:11:56,636 --> 00:11:57,999 Jodi magness: That's right. 265 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,132 Morgan Freeman: What happened? 266 00:12:01,133 --> 00:12:03,467 - Jodi magness: Well, the - apocalypse sort of did arrive, 267 00:12:03,470 --> 00:12:05,317 but not the kind of apocalypse 268 00:12:05,318 --> 00:12:07,166 that they anticipated. 269 00:12:07,167 --> 00:12:08,584 Morgan Freeman: In 68ad, 270 00:12:08,585 --> 00:12:13,167 their battle with the suns of darkness took place. 271 00:12:13,433 --> 00:12:15,866 It was the romans. 272 00:12:15,867 --> 00:12:17,117 As part of that campaign 273 00:12:17,118 --> 00:12:18,366 to crush the Jewish revolt 274 00:12:18,367 --> 00:12:20,950 against their rule, they 275 00:12:20,951 --> 00:12:26,133 wiped qumran and the essenes off the map. 276 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,466 So the romans, armies just were sweeping past here 277 00:12:30,467 --> 00:12:32,599 when all of these people were in the way, 278 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:33,799 just get rid of them? 279 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,300 - Jodi magness: - That's exactly right. 280 00:12:35,303 --> 00:12:37,584 The romans were basically 281 00:12:37,585 --> 00:12:39,866 subduing the entire area. 282 00:12:39,867 --> 00:12:42,000 - Morgan Freeman: But the idea - of an apocalyptic battle with 283 00:12:42,003 --> 00:12:44,467 the forces of darkness did 284 00:12:44,468 --> 00:12:46,933 not die with the essenes. 285 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:50,132 It crept into another faith. 286 00:12:50,133 --> 00:12:54,167 One that was just being born. 287 00:12:55,833 --> 00:12:59,567 All roads lead to Rome. 288 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:05,734 That's were I want to 289 00:13:05,735 --> 00:13:07,166 uncover how the Christian idea 290 00:13:07,167 --> 00:13:09,899 of the end of days began. 291 00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:13,700 It's most famous book of prophecy, revelation, 292 00:13:13,701 --> 00:13:17,534 written around 100ad, foretells an impending 293 00:13:17,535 --> 00:13:19,867 battle with the antichrist. 294 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,899 "Let anyone with understanding calculate 295 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:32,184 the number of the beast, for 296 00:13:32,185 --> 00:13:34,467 it is the number of a person. 297 00:13:35,233 --> 00:13:40,667 It's number is 666." 298 00:13:45,967 --> 00:13:49,332 I want to know if I can calculate the number 299 00:13:49,333 --> 00:13:52,633 of the beast. 300 00:13:53,567 --> 00:13:55,717 I've come to the biblioteca 301 00:13:55,718 --> 00:13:59,584 casanatense near the Vatican to meet an expert in 302 00:13:59,585 --> 00:14:01,299 early christianity. 303 00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:05,100 Kim Haines-eitzen. 304 00:14:05,567 --> 00:14:09,066 She tells me she has compelling evidence that 305 00:14:09,067 --> 00:14:15,800 reveals the identity of the beast. 306 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,899 Good morning. 307 00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:23,466 So, what exactly do we have here? 308 00:14:23,467 --> 00:14:24,884 Kim Haines-eitzen: Well, I've 309 00:14:24,885 --> 00:14:26,299 been looking at some fragments 310 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:28,166 of the book of revelation. 311 00:14:28,167 --> 00:14:29,767 - Morgan Freeman: The - book of revelation? 312 00:14:29,770 --> 00:14:30,933 - Kim Haines-eitzen: - That's right. 313 00:14:30,936 --> 00:14:32,667 - Morgan Freeman: The - book of the end of days. 314 00:14:32,670 --> 00:14:34,067 - Kim Haines-eitzen: - The end of days, 315 00:14:34,070 --> 00:14:35,599 the apocalypse. 316 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:36,900 It's a prophetic book, 317 00:14:36,901 --> 00:14:38,199 it's got loads of symbolism, 318 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,700 but it's also very much a 319 00:14:39,701 --> 00:14:43,934 political book and making a political claim 320 00:14:43,935 --> 00:14:46,666 about the cause of evil. 321 00:14:46,667 --> 00:14:48,500 - Morgan Freeman: - The cause of evil. 322 00:14:48,503 --> 00:14:52,366 Kim Haines-eitzen: Or who's responsible for evil. 323 00:14:52,367 --> 00:14:54,600 - Morgan Freeman: So tell me - about this coding because as I 324 00:14:54,603 --> 00:14:56,767 understand it, the antichrist 325 00:14:56,768 --> 00:14:58,932 was given a code so they would 326 00:14:58,933 --> 00:15:00,817 never call his name, they 327 00:15:00,818 --> 00:15:02,699 would just say it by code. 328 00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:04,067 Kim Haines-eitzen: Well, 329 00:15:04,068 --> 00:15:06,467 there has been a lot of debate about what this 330 00:15:06,468 --> 00:15:11,066 number, in particular, 666, who it refers to. 331 00:15:11,067 --> 00:15:16,966 There has also been a strong argument made for 666 332 00:15:16,967 --> 00:15:19,466 referring to nero. 333 00:15:19,467 --> 00:15:21,467 Morgan Freeman: Nero was emperor of Rome from 334 00:15:21,468 --> 00:15:24,166 54 to 68ad. 335 00:15:24,167 --> 00:15:26,566 Around the time when the first christians began to 336 00:15:26,567 --> 00:15:29,166 arrive in Rome. 337 00:15:29,167 --> 00:15:35,167 So how do you make 666 translate to nero? 338 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,167 Kim Haines-eitzen: When you 339 00:15:37,168 --> 00:15:38,532 apply numerical values to the 340 00:15:38,533 --> 00:15:43,332 name, kaisar neron and you add up those numbers, 341 00:15:43,333 --> 00:15:47,167 you come to 666. 342 00:15:48,167 --> 00:15:51,066 Morgan Freeman: In ancient Greek and Hebrew, 343 00:15:51,067 --> 00:15:54,932 every letter had a corresponding number. 344 00:15:54,933 --> 00:15:56,517 If you add up the letters of 345 00:15:56,518 --> 00:15:59,784 the name for emperor nero, written in Hebrew, 346 00:15:59,785 --> 00:16:05,733 kaisar neron, the total comes to 666. 347 00:16:06,867 --> 00:16:09,500 But nero is just one of many 348 00:16:09,501 --> 00:16:12,133 names that can add up to 666. 349 00:16:14,133 --> 00:16:16,067 Kim believes a later copy of 350 00:16:16,068 --> 00:16:19,900 the book of revelation found in an archaeological 351 00:16:19,901 --> 00:16:24,066 dig in Egypt confirms the beast is nero. 352 00:16:24,067 --> 00:16:25,334 Kim Haines-eitzen: One of the 353 00:16:25,335 --> 00:16:26,599 interesting things about these 354 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,032 fragments is that we've got two different numbers. 355 00:16:29,033 --> 00:16:30,667 - Morgan Freeman: What - are those letters? 356 00:16:30,670 --> 00:16:31,817 Kim Haines-eitzen: 357 00:16:31,818 --> 00:16:36,399 A chi is the 600, xi 60, sigma a six. 358 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,399 666. 359 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,666 This one over here, we have a chi yota sigma, 360 00:16:41,667 --> 00:16:44,866 616 with a line over the top. 361 00:16:44,867 --> 00:16:46,133 - Morgan Freeman: - Why is it different? 362 00:16:46,136 --> 00:16:47,517 Kim Haines-eitzen: You 363 00:16:47,518 --> 00:16:48,899 might think that this number 364 00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:51,899 destroys the possibility that it could be nero. 365 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:53,299 Morgan Freeman: Yes. 366 00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:54,767 Kim Haines-eitzen: What's 367 00:16:54,768 --> 00:16:56,232 striking about this is that 368 00:16:56,233 --> 00:16:59,167 it may help to confirm the 369 00:16:59,168 --> 00:17:02,099 identity of nero because this 370 00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:05,466 will be the number that we would get if we spelled 371 00:17:05,467 --> 00:17:07,999 nero according to the Latin spelling. 372 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,866 Nero kaiser. 373 00:17:10,867 --> 00:17:15,066 Without the n, the letter n represented 50, 374 00:17:15,067 --> 00:17:19,699 the number 50, so 666 minus 50... 375 00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:21,332 Morgan Freeman: 616. 376 00:17:21,333 --> 00:17:22,900 - Kim Haines-eitzen: 616, - so we've just gone... 377 00:17:22,903 --> 00:17:24,250 Morgan Freeman: So we just 378 00:17:24,251 --> 00:17:25,599 subtract and we time up with 379 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:27,699 616 and we have the same guy? 380 00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:29,600 - Kim Haines-eitzen: - That's right. 381 00:17:29,603 --> 00:17:32,700 Morgan Freeman: I'm so clever! 382 00:17:42,067 --> 00:17:47,266 ♪ ♪ 383 00:17:47,267 --> 00:17:49,599 But why might early christians have called nero 384 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,699 the antichrist? 385 00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:55,732 Kim brings me to the very heart of the Vatican. 386 00:17:55,733 --> 00:17:59,966 St Peter's square to show me the answer. 387 00:17:59,967 --> 00:18:03,883 So we know that the code, 666 refers to 388 00:18:03,884 --> 00:18:05,432 the emperor, nero. 389 00:18:05,433 --> 00:18:07,099 Why? 390 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:08,667 Kim Haines-eitzen: Emperor 391 00:18:08,668 --> 00:18:12,167 nero was despised for many things including 392 00:18:12,168 --> 00:18:14,099 persecuting christians. 393 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:16,367 Now, in the square here, 394 00:18:16,368 --> 00:18:18,632 you can see an obelisk that 395 00:18:18,633 --> 00:18:21,300 he arranged to stand at the 396 00:18:21,301 --> 00:18:23,966 turning point in his circus. 397 00:18:23,967 --> 00:18:25,567 - Morgan Freeman: - Circus Maximus. 398 00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:26,784 Kim Haines-eitzen: 399 00:18:26,785 --> 00:18:27,999 The circus neroeus. 400 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,366 Morgan Freeman: Neroneus? 401 00:18:29,367 --> 00:18:31,799 Kim Haines-eitzen: Yeah, the circus stood here and 402 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,932 was a place for chariot races, games, 403 00:18:34,933 --> 00:18:37,100 but he also used it then 404 00:18:37,101 --> 00:18:39,266 for persecuting christians. 405 00:18:39,267 --> 00:18:41,350 So in 64, there was a major 406 00:18:41,351 --> 00:18:43,432 fire in Rome and much of the 407 00:18:43,433 --> 00:18:46,000 city was destroyed, nero 408 00:18:46,001 --> 00:18:48,566 wound up blaming christians and 409 00:18:48,567 --> 00:18:51,184 he executed them in great 410 00:18:51,185 --> 00:18:53,799 numbers as far as we can tell, 411 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,500 right here in this circus. 412 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,084 Morgan Freeman: Tradition says 413 00:19:00,085 --> 00:19:01,366 nero even executed the man 414 00:19:01,367 --> 00:19:03,100 many considered to be the 415 00:19:03,101 --> 00:19:04,832 founder of the church in Rome. 416 00:19:04,833 --> 00:19:06,232 Peter. 417 00:19:06,233 --> 00:19:08,367 - Kim Haines-eitzen: The story - about Peter was that he was 418 00:19:08,370 --> 00:19:10,050 crucified upside down, some 419 00:19:10,051 --> 00:19:11,732 of them were lit on fire. 420 00:19:11,733 --> 00:19:12,999 Morgan Freeman: Burning? 421 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,832 To light the place. 422 00:19:14,833 --> 00:19:16,667 Kim Haines-eitzen: It explains 423 00:19:16,668 --> 00:19:18,499 why they despised him so much. 424 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:20,534 So now we have the basilica 425 00:19:20,535 --> 00:19:22,566 of St. Peter standing here 426 00:19:22,567 --> 00:19:25,232 commemorating his death. 427 00:19:25,233 --> 00:19:26,983 Morgan Freeman: So the 428 00:19:26,984 --> 00:19:30,399 irony that this is where Peter founded the church. 429 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,217 Kim Haines-eitzen: 430 00:19:32,218 --> 00:19:34,033 Yeah, it's pretty dramatic. 431 00:19:34,267 --> 00:19:36,500 - Morgan Freeman: The - crucifix on which Peter died 432 00:19:36,503 --> 00:19:41,100 could have been just yards from where I stand now. 433 00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:43,566 Obviously, the christians hated nero. 434 00:19:43,567 --> 00:19:45,432 He was the antichrist. 435 00:19:45,433 --> 00:19:46,733 Even after his suicide, it 436 00:19:46,734 --> 00:19:48,032 appeared that he had the power 437 00:19:48,033 --> 00:19:49,433 to come back and rule, 438 00:19:49,434 --> 00:19:52,667 which is why it was safer to refer to him 439 00:19:52,668 --> 00:19:54,500 in a secret code. 440 00:19:55,567 --> 00:19:56,934 But, the christians living 441 00:19:56,935 --> 00:19:58,299 under the conditions that 442 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:01,050 they were living, judgment 443 00:20:01,051 --> 00:20:03,800 day couldn't come too soon. 444 00:20:04,933 --> 00:20:06,233 The Christian idea of 445 00:20:06,234 --> 00:20:09,832 apocalypse took hold under the oppression of Rome. 446 00:20:09,833 --> 00:20:12,899 This evil empire had destroyed Jerusalem and 447 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:16,932 persecuted the early followers of Jesus. 448 00:20:16,933 --> 00:20:18,817 But, the idea has since 449 00:20:18,818 --> 00:20:20,699 spread to a different faith. 450 00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,666 It targets a different evil empire. 451 00:20:23,667 --> 00:20:27,667 And threatens to engulf us all in the apocalypse. 452 00:20:36,733 --> 00:20:38,867 - Morgan Freeman: I'm traveling - the world to find out why 453 00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:43,033 billions of people believe in the end of days. 454 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,866 My journey has brought me to islam. 455 00:20:46,867 --> 00:20:51,299 Islam is an arabic word that means surrender. 456 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:54,099 Submission to god's will. 457 00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:57,666 The same god the Jews and Christian worship. 458 00:20:57,667 --> 00:20:59,632 Meeting muslims face to face, 459 00:20:59,633 --> 00:21:02,183 I've learned that islam aims 460 00:21:02,184 --> 00:21:04,733 for people to live in peace. 461 00:21:07,467 --> 00:21:11,400 But watching the news today, you'd be forgiven 462 00:21:11,401 --> 00:21:13,000 for not knowing that. 463 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,132 A tiny percentage of muslims are waging war 464 00:21:18,133 --> 00:21:20,933 against the west. 465 00:21:22,767 --> 00:21:24,367 Isis and other religious 466 00:21:24,368 --> 00:21:25,966 extremist groups believe the 467 00:21:25,967 --> 00:21:29,100 apocalypse has already begun. 468 00:21:36,867 --> 00:21:41,199 To understand why, I've come to New York. 469 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,166 To meet a man who was once a high level recruiter 470 00:21:44,167 --> 00:21:48,233 for an apocalyptic islamist group. 471 00:21:51,733 --> 00:21:54,917 Maajid nawaz was radicalized 472 00:21:54,918 --> 00:21:58,099 as a teenager in the uk. 473 00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:01,666 Please tell me about that radicalization. 474 00:22:01,667 --> 00:22:03,567 - Maajid nawaz: I think it's - important just to distinguish 475 00:22:03,570 --> 00:22:06,599 between islamism and islam, a religion. 476 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,534 What I mean by islamism 477 00:22:08,535 --> 00:22:10,466 is the desire to impose any 478 00:22:10,467 --> 00:22:12,866 version of islam over society. 479 00:22:12,867 --> 00:22:15,299 Although ideology was sold to me as if it was the 480 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,366 religion of islam and that's what I adopted. 481 00:22:18,367 --> 00:22:19,984 I grew up facing a very, very 482 00:22:19,985 --> 00:22:21,599 severe form of violent racism, 483 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,132 domestically within the uk. 484 00:22:23,133 --> 00:22:27,100 I'm talking hammer attacks, machete attacks by 485 00:22:27,101 --> 00:22:29,399 Neo-Nazi skinheads, thugs. 486 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:30,717 On many occasions I had to 487 00:22:30,718 --> 00:22:33,217 watch as my friends were stabbed before my 488 00:22:33,218 --> 00:22:34,399 eyes as a 15 year old. 489 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,766 I began seeing myself as separate from the rest of 490 00:22:36,767 --> 00:22:39,199 society and an islamist recruiter found me in that 491 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,399 state as a young, angry teenager and it was 492 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,166 very easy for that recruiter. 493 00:22:43,167 --> 00:22:45,466 I joined a group called hizb ut-tahrir and that's 494 00:22:45,467 --> 00:22:49,867 the group I spent 13 years of my leadership on. 495 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,932 Morgan Freeman: Is that the precursor to al-qaeda? 496 00:22:54,933 --> 00:22:56,350 Maajid nawaz: Yes, it's the 497 00:22:56,351 --> 00:22:57,766 first islamist organization 498 00:22:57,767 --> 00:22:58,884 that was responsible for 499 00:22:58,885 --> 00:23:01,634 popularizing the notion of resurrecting a modern 500 00:23:01,635 --> 00:23:04,367 day theocratic caliphate, as we now see that 501 00:23:04,368 --> 00:23:05,466 Isis has laid claim to. 502 00:23:05,467 --> 00:23:07,766 But, my former group, they were the first ones to 503 00:23:07,767 --> 00:23:10,566 popularize that term. 504 00:23:10,567 --> 00:23:13,066 I ended up in Egypt where I continued to recruit 505 00:23:13,067 --> 00:23:15,066 people to this cause. 506 00:23:15,067 --> 00:23:20,000 I was eventually arrested on 1st march in 2002. 507 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,067 - Maajid nawaz: I was taken - to the headquarters of the 508 00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:25,984 state security in Cairo, down underground in 509 00:23:25,985 --> 00:23:27,500 their torture dungeons. 510 00:23:27,833 --> 00:23:31,599 I was blindfolded and that's when they, 511 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,799 the worst ordeal began. 512 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,232 Morgan Freeman: Torture? 513 00:23:36,233 --> 00:23:39,967 Maajid nawaz: They began electrocuting everyone. 514 00:23:45,033 --> 00:23:48,299 Morgan Freeman: You served four years in prison? 515 00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:49,800 - Maajid nawaz: - Four years, yeah. 516 00:23:49,803 --> 00:23:51,650 Morgan Freeman: And then 517 00:23:51,651 --> 00:23:53,499 you came out not so radical. 518 00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:54,933 - Maajid nawaz: I - am still a Muslim, 519 00:23:54,936 --> 00:23:57,132 but I am now liberal. 520 00:23:57,133 --> 00:23:58,450 Now, when I was in prison 521 00:23:58,451 --> 00:23:59,766 and I was living with the 522 00:23:59,767 --> 00:24:03,066 who's who of the jihadist terrorist movements and 523 00:24:03,067 --> 00:24:04,399 islamist movements, 524 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,267 - we had a leader of - the Muslim brotherhood. 525 00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:08,850 When I saw him I thought, "my god, if these guys 526 00:24:08,851 --> 00:24:11,317 ever came to power and declared a caliphate, 527 00:24:11,318 --> 00:24:12,666 it would be hell on earth." 528 00:24:12,667 --> 00:24:14,667 - Of course, when Isis - eventually did declare the 529 00:24:14,670 --> 00:24:16,800 caliphate, that utopian dream 530 00:24:16,801 --> 00:24:20,083 that we all used to share has become that dystopic 531 00:24:20,084 --> 00:24:21,232 nightmare that we see now. 532 00:24:21,233 --> 00:24:27,000 [Explosions and [automatic gunfire] 533 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,000 Morgan Freeman: So, lets talk 534 00:24:30,001 --> 00:24:31,799 a little bit about Isis and 535 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,367 the apocalyptic prophecies of 536 00:24:34,368 --> 00:24:36,932 Muhammad and how they're using 537 00:24:36,933 --> 00:24:38,699 that for their purposes. 538 00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:40,900 - Maajid nawaz: Yeah, so there - were a lot prophecies that 539 00:24:40,903 --> 00:24:43,432 most muslims share in common with each other. 540 00:24:43,433 --> 00:24:44,883 The difference is what Isis 541 00:24:44,884 --> 00:24:47,767 has done is it's manipulated those prophecies to 542 00:24:47,768 --> 00:24:50,999 serve its own political and ideological ends. 543 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,467 So as an example of this 544 00:24:52,468 --> 00:24:53,932 end of times battle that Isis 545 00:24:53,933 --> 00:24:56,666 believes is going to take place in a small village 546 00:24:56,667 --> 00:24:59,699 called dabiq in Syria. 547 00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:01,067 Now this village, has 548 00:25:01,068 --> 00:25:02,432 absolutely no strategic value, 549 00:25:02,433 --> 00:25:04,232 militarily whatsoever. 550 00:25:04,233 --> 00:25:06,432 Has hardly any economic strategic value either. 551 00:25:06,433 --> 00:25:08,932 But Isis has nevertheless committed resources to 552 00:25:08,933 --> 00:25:11,132 conquering this small village called dabiq. 553 00:25:11,133 --> 00:25:13,832 They believe that the international community and 554 00:25:13,833 --> 00:25:17,532 the coalition must somehow be driven to come 555 00:25:17,533 --> 00:25:19,867 and meet them in dabiq 556 00:25:19,868 --> 00:25:22,200 and engage in a final battle. 557 00:25:26,667 --> 00:25:28,167 Morgan Freeman: Would 558 00:25:28,168 --> 00:25:29,666 that be part of the apocalypse 559 00:25:29,667 --> 00:25:31,399 that America would fall? 560 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:32,866 Maajid nawaz: Yeah. 561 00:25:32,867 --> 00:25:34,533 - Now there's a - prophecy of the prophet, 562 00:25:34,536 --> 00:25:36,000 Muhammad that says that 563 00:25:36,001 --> 00:25:37,466 constantinople will fall first 564 00:25:37,467 --> 00:25:39,100 and then Rome will, so Isis 565 00:25:39,101 --> 00:25:40,732 has interpreted this piece of 566 00:25:40,733 --> 00:25:43,066 scripture that because constantinople has already 567 00:25:43,067 --> 00:25:44,634 fallen to muslims, that 568 00:25:44,635 --> 00:25:46,199 the next big battle will be 569 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,384 against the west and the 570 00:25:47,385 --> 00:25:48,566 west will eventually fall. 571 00:25:48,567 --> 00:25:50,766 The idea would be that actually in fact, 572 00:25:50,767 --> 00:25:52,567 - that America today - represents Rome. 573 00:25:52,570 --> 00:25:54,032 Morgan Freeman: Ah-ha. 574 00:25:54,033 --> 00:25:55,117 Maajid nawaz: You know, a 575 00:25:55,118 --> 00:25:56,199 continuation of the western 576 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,267 - civilization as represented - by the Roman empire. 577 00:25:58,270 --> 00:26:02,832 Morgan Freeman: Why do you think the idea of the 578 00:26:02,833 --> 00:26:06,184 apocalypse is so appealing, particularly to so 579 00:26:06,185 --> 00:26:07,299 many young people? 580 00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:09,033 - Maajid nawaz: When - you feel powerless, 581 00:26:09,036 --> 00:26:11,067 - when you feel that - you don't actually control 582 00:26:11,070 --> 00:26:13,650 your own destiny, when you feel that 583 00:26:13,651 --> 00:26:15,967 you have absolutely no voice, then it's incredibly 584 00:26:15,968 --> 00:26:18,267 tempting, though wrong, to feel like you're 585 00:26:18,268 --> 00:26:19,466 becoming an agent of destiny. 586 00:26:19,467 --> 00:26:21,367 - To suddenly feel like - you do have a voice, 587 00:26:21,370 --> 00:26:23,466 that you are shaping history. 588 00:26:23,467 --> 00:26:24,850 Morgan Freeman: Maajid now 589 00:26:24,851 --> 00:26:26,232 runs the quilliam foundation, 590 00:26:26,233 --> 00:26:28,250 whose goal is to prevent 591 00:26:28,251 --> 00:26:30,266 Isis and groups like them from 592 00:26:30,267 --> 00:26:32,666 recruiting people in the west. 593 00:26:32,667 --> 00:26:35,867 He produces counter-propaganda videos like this. 594 00:26:39,767 --> 00:26:41,084 Maajid nawaz: So we're taking 595 00:26:41,085 --> 00:26:42,399 real examples of people who 596 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:43,934 have become disillusioned and 597 00:26:43,935 --> 00:26:47,234 we put them to actors voices and actually put out 598 00:26:47,235 --> 00:26:48,999 some of those stories. 599 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,499 Thank you. 600 00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:52,066 Morgan Freeman: Thank you. 601 00:26:52,067 --> 00:26:55,332 Most informative and I'm glad you're here. 602 00:26:55,333 --> 00:26:56,917 Maajid nawaz: 603 00:26:56,918 --> 00:26:58,500 Thank you, a pleasure. 604 00:27:02,533 --> 00:27:04,033 Morgan Freeman: It's probably 605 00:27:04,034 --> 00:27:07,333 natural that the apocalypse is appealing to the 606 00:27:07,334 --> 00:27:09,132 disenfranchised. 607 00:27:09,133 --> 00:27:10,700 They have the most to gain 608 00:27:10,701 --> 00:27:12,266 and the least to fear from 609 00:27:12,267 --> 00:27:15,732 overturning the status quo. 610 00:27:15,733 --> 00:27:19,299 But it's more widespread than that. 611 00:27:19,300 --> 00:27:25,099 Culturally, we seem to have a morbid attraction 612 00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:28,166 to the apocalypse. 613 00:27:28,167 --> 00:27:33,767 It's almost as if we draw some comfort from it. 614 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,766 At the university of Illinois at Chicago, 615 00:27:42,767 --> 00:27:46,299 psychology professor, Stewart Shankman is studying 616 00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:49,132 our subconscious belief in the apocalypse. 617 00:27:49,133 --> 00:27:53,732 He thinks it may be hard wired into our brains. 618 00:27:53,733 --> 00:27:55,633 - Professor Shankman: So the - gist of what we're doing today 619 00:27:55,636 --> 00:27:57,567 - is we're looking at - people's different response to 620 00:27:57,570 --> 00:27:59,732 different kinds of threats. 621 00:27:59,733 --> 00:28:00,967 Morgan Freeman: Since this is 622 00:28:00,968 --> 00:28:04,300 a lab experiment that relies on volunteers, the 623 00:28:04,301 --> 00:28:06,399 catastrophe is survivable. 624 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,417 A sudden noise combined with 625 00:28:08,418 --> 00:28:10,432 a mild shock to the wrist. 626 00:28:10,433 --> 00:28:12,617 A skull cap of electrodes and 627 00:28:12,618 --> 00:28:14,799 sensors on the subjects face 628 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,984 capture the raw data of fear, of brain activity 629 00:28:18,985 --> 00:28:20,599 and her stress levels. 630 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,734 Together, they measure the 631 00:28:22,735 --> 00:28:24,866 size of the startle response. 632 00:28:24,867 --> 00:28:26,400 - Professor Shankman: - And the first condition is 633 00:28:26,403 --> 00:28:28,333 - called shock at - anytime and during that, 634 00:28:28,336 --> 00:28:29,383 you might receive it when 635 00:28:29,384 --> 00:28:30,432 the countdown reaches one, 636 00:28:30,433 --> 00:28:32,200 - you might receive it in the - middle of the countdowns, 637 00:28:32,203 --> 00:28:33,867 - you might receive it in - between your countdowns, 638 00:28:33,870 --> 00:28:37,367 you might not receive it at all. 639 00:28:46,067 --> 00:28:48,033 - Look, there's a - bit startle for the 640 00:28:48,036 --> 00:28:51,633 unpredictable condition. 641 00:28:54,667 --> 00:28:56,467 - When people are in the - unpredictable condition, 642 00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:58,300 - they don't know when - this bad thing is coming. 643 00:28:58,303 --> 00:29:00,632 They're gonna show a greater activity in their 644 00:29:00,633 --> 00:29:02,232 brain and pupil dilation. 645 00:29:02,233 --> 00:29:03,900 - Their heart - rate's gonna increase. 646 00:29:03,903 --> 00:29:05,999 Morgan Freeman: Now, Stuart changes to a 647 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,432 different condition. 648 00:29:07,433 --> 00:29:09,699 A predictable shock. 649 00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:11,433 - Professor Shankman: - Called shock at one and 650 00:29:11,436 --> 00:29:15,733 you will get a shock at the end of the countdowns. 651 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:22,032 Morgan Freeman: Your reaction to this painful, 652 00:29:22,033 --> 00:29:24,499 but foreseeable shock is different. 653 00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:26,399 Surprisingly so. 654 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,267 - Professor Shankman: - When people are in the 655 00:29:28,270 --> 00:29:30,433 - unpredictable condition, - their startle response is much 656 00:29:30,436 --> 00:29:31,633 higher than when they're in 657 00:29:31,634 --> 00:29:32,832 the predictable condition. 658 00:29:32,833 --> 00:29:35,499 Knowing when the bad thing is gonna come creates a 659 00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:38,299 qualitatively different emotional experience 660 00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:40,599 than not knowing. 661 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,232 So, whatever we can do to try to make something 662 00:29:43,233 --> 00:29:45,200 - as unpredictable, - predictable, 663 00:29:45,203 --> 00:29:48,400 that's gonna give us a little bit of solace. 664 00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:52,867 - Morgan Freeman: This metal - mechanism could explain why so 665 00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:57,532 many of us believe in an impending apocalypse. 666 00:29:57,533 --> 00:30:00,432 But, it may also explain the morbid appeal 667 00:30:00,433 --> 00:30:02,632 of doomsday cults. 668 00:30:02,633 --> 00:30:04,033 Marshall applewhite: I'll 669 00:30:04,034 --> 00:30:06,650 tell you about a kingdom level beyond here and if 670 00:30:06,651 --> 00:30:09,766 you want to go there, then you have to follow me. 671 00:30:09,767 --> 00:30:13,633 This is the end of the age. 672 00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:19,400 Morgan Freeman: But is it 673 00:30:19,401 --> 00:30:21,099 possible to predict the end? 674 00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:25,567 A few years back, many people thought they had. 675 00:30:27,367 --> 00:30:29,466 According to popular legend, 676 00:30:29,467 --> 00:30:30,834 the ancient Maya thought 677 00:30:30,835 --> 00:30:35,267 the apocalypse would arrive on a specific date. 678 00:30:36,867 --> 00:30:40,767 December 21st, 2012. 679 00:30:44,967 --> 00:30:46,999 I want to know if this is really true, 680 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,966 so I've traveled to their ancient capital, 681 00:30:49,967 --> 00:30:53,167 tikal in Guatemala. 682 00:30:54,567 --> 00:30:56,500 I'm meeting Stanley guenter, 683 00:30:56,501 --> 00:30:58,432 who's a world leading decoder 684 00:30:58,433 --> 00:31:00,699 of Mayan inscriptions. 685 00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:02,350 Stanley guenter: So this 686 00:31:02,351 --> 00:31:03,999 is the temple of the masks. 687 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,117 And on the other side, the temple of 688 00:31:08,118 --> 00:31:10,500 the giant Jaguar. 689 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,399 This would have been the early center of the 690 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,732 ancient city of tikal. 691 00:31:16,733 --> 00:31:18,799 Morgan Freeman: What about those headstone 692 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,199 looking things, there? 693 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,232 Stanley guenter: Those are what we call stelae. 694 00:31:23,233 --> 00:31:25,066 Stelae. 695 00:31:25,067 --> 00:31:26,899 Morgan Freeman: Stelae. 696 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:28,500 - Stanley guenter: And - they commemorate periods 697 00:31:28,503 --> 00:31:29,932 in the Mayan calendar. 698 00:31:29,933 --> 00:31:31,933 So we see that they would have been dedicated 699 00:31:31,934 --> 00:31:34,650 to periods of time, such as every 20 years, 700 00:31:34,651 --> 00:31:35,866 every 10 years and especially 701 00:31:35,867 --> 00:31:39,717 every about 400 years, the ending of the 702 00:31:39,718 --> 00:31:41,700 great b'ak'tun cycles. 703 00:31:42,467 --> 00:31:44,367 - Morgan Freeman: The - festival to mark the end of 704 00:31:44,370 --> 00:31:47,032 a b'ak'tun cycle would have culminated in the 705 00:31:47,033 --> 00:31:50,500 king sacrificing the captive. 706 00:31:55,033 --> 00:31:57,900 Does that go to say that the 707 00:31:57,901 --> 00:32:00,766 Mayans felt that 2012 would be 708 00:32:00,767 --> 00:32:02,633 - the end of time, - the apocalypse? 709 00:32:02,636 --> 00:32:04,433 - Stanley guenter: So we - heard a few years ago, 710 00:32:04,436 --> 00:32:06,200 about 2012 when people said 711 00:32:06,201 --> 00:32:07,966 the end of the 13th b'ak'tun 712 00:32:07,967 --> 00:32:10,099 was going to be the end of the world predicted by 713 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:11,933 - the Maya and there's a - monument down here, 714 00:32:11,936 --> 00:32:13,833 - I think we should - take a look at that would 715 00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:17,767 help explain that. 716 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,766 This is stela 10 and you can see we've got a king, 717 00:32:24,767 --> 00:32:27,766 there is his head, big headdress full of feathers. 718 00:32:27,767 --> 00:32:30,099 His shoulders, all of his jewelry, 719 00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:31,632 down to his feet. 720 00:32:31,633 --> 00:32:34,500 And if you look down below, we can actually 721 00:32:34,501 --> 00:32:35,500 see we have a captive. 722 00:32:35,501 --> 00:32:36,984 We can see his head, we 723 00:32:36,985 --> 00:32:39,732 have his hands and even down to his legs. 724 00:32:39,733 --> 00:32:42,166 He's all tied up for sacrifice. 725 00:32:42,167 --> 00:32:44,499 Morgan Freeman: So now, what did this have to do 726 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:45,866 with the apocalypse? 727 00:32:45,867 --> 00:32:47,667 - Stanley guenter: Well, - we have to go around the 728 00:32:47,670 --> 00:32:48,932 other side, here. 729 00:32:48,933 --> 00:32:51,533 Morgan Freeman: Okay. 730 00:32:51,833 --> 00:32:54,100 - Stanley guenter: We have a - date that gives us a specific 731 00:32:54,103 --> 00:32:59,999 point in time, we have eleven years and 360 days. 732 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,484 Then we have three katuns, 733 00:33:01,485 --> 00:33:02,966 that's about 20 years each, 734 00:33:02,967 --> 00:33:05,932 so we've got another 60 and then here we have nine 735 00:33:05,933 --> 00:33:11,332 b'ak'tuns because this is a date of about 525ad, 736 00:33:11,333 --> 00:33:13,900 so if you remember, we had 737 00:33:13,901 --> 00:33:16,466 13 b'ak'tuns ended in 2012. 738 00:33:16,467 --> 00:33:18,433 - But the really interesting - thing is this monument 739 00:33:18,436 --> 00:33:20,399 doesn't stop there. 740 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,334 It goes on and tells us there 741 00:33:22,335 --> 00:33:24,266 were 19 of the higher unit, 742 00:33:24,267 --> 00:33:27,850 the piktun and even higher, we have eleven of 743 00:33:27,851 --> 00:33:29,132 the next unit and so on. 744 00:33:29,133 --> 00:33:30,400 Each one of those units is 745 00:33:30,401 --> 00:33:33,417 20 times larger than the previous, so what we see 746 00:33:33,418 --> 00:33:37,400 on this monument then, is that 13 b'ak'tuns wasn't 747 00:33:37,401 --> 00:33:41,217 the end of any calendar, it was simply the end of 748 00:33:41,218 --> 00:33:45,467 one cycle within a whole series of nested cycles, 749 00:33:45,468 --> 00:33:48,133 each one larger than the other. 750 00:33:52,233 --> 00:33:54,100 - Morgan Freeman: Just - as we mark the start of a 751 00:33:54,103 --> 00:33:57,300 new millennium, the Maya marked 752 00:33:57,301 --> 00:33:58,732 December 21st, 2012 as a 753 00:33:58,733 --> 00:34:01,332 major event on their calendar. 754 00:34:01,333 --> 00:34:04,266 The ending of another 400 year cycle. 755 00:34:04,267 --> 00:34:06,634 There would have been 756 00:34:06,635 --> 00:34:09,000 parades, music and sacrifice. 757 00:34:10,333 --> 00:34:12,799 If the ancient Maya were still here, 758 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,733 they'd have had a huge party. 759 00:34:18,667 --> 00:34:20,232 No apocalypse. 760 00:34:20,233 --> 00:34:21,600 - Stanley guenter: - No apocalypse. 761 00:34:21,603 --> 00:34:22,867 - Morgan Freeman: - Just a beginning. 762 00:34:22,870 --> 00:34:24,099 Another beginning. 763 00:34:24,100 --> 00:34:25,767 - Stanley guenter: And - another one and another one 764 00:34:25,770 --> 00:34:28,732 that would go on for almost eternity. 765 00:34:28,733 --> 00:34:29,817 Morgan Freeman: 766 00:34:29,818 --> 00:34:30,899 Why not eternity? 767 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:33,133 - Stanley guenter: We've never - found the end for the Maya, 768 00:34:33,136 --> 00:34:34,800 - and we'll still have - to keep searching. 769 00:34:34,803 --> 00:34:37,266 Morgan Freeman: Okay. 770 00:34:37,267 --> 00:34:39,534 Thinking about the way the 771 00:34:39,535 --> 00:34:41,799 Maya saw time makes me realize 772 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,799 that the idea of an end we have in christianity, 773 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,232 judaism and islam are not universal. 774 00:34:51,233 --> 00:34:53,400 For these religions, the 775 00:34:53,401 --> 00:34:57,267 ultimate hope is that god will intervene in 776 00:34:57,268 --> 00:35:01,484 the world of men, pass judgment and right the 777 00:35:01,485 --> 00:35:04,000 wrongs that we see around us. 778 00:35:04,633 --> 00:35:05,867 But there are billions of 779 00:35:05,868 --> 00:35:07,099 believers out there who don't 780 00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:10,633 see the world that way at all. 781 00:35:13,567 --> 00:35:18,932 For them, time moves in cycles, perhaps forever. 782 00:35:18,933 --> 00:35:21,399 I'm headed to India to understand what the 783 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,333 apocalypse could mean... In a world without end. 784 00:35:38,933 --> 00:35:40,833 - Morgan Freeman: - India is the birthplace of 785 00:35:40,836 --> 00:35:42,566 two great religions. 786 00:35:42,567 --> 00:35:44,899 Hinduism. 787 00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:47,767 And buddhism. 788 00:35:54,567 --> 00:35:56,617 Hindus believe an apocalypse 789 00:35:56,618 --> 00:35:58,666 comes every few billion years. 790 00:35:58,667 --> 00:36:01,966 But every end leads to a new beginning and the 791 00:36:01,967 --> 00:36:05,166 world starts again. 792 00:36:05,167 --> 00:36:08,799 Buddhists don't imagine a violent end of days. 793 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,700 To them, the word apocalypse 794 00:36:10,701 --> 00:36:13,900 does not mean a revelation of god's 795 00:36:13,901 --> 00:36:15,199 judgment to the world. 796 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,932 It's a personal revelation of truth in the mind. 797 00:36:19,933 --> 00:36:24,067 It's called enlightenment. 798 00:36:29,167 --> 00:36:30,900 To find out what that means, 799 00:36:30,901 --> 00:36:32,632 I've come to sarnath, India to 800 00:36:32,633 --> 00:36:34,533 meet one of the world's 801 00:36:34,534 --> 00:36:36,432 most revered Buddhist lamas. 802 00:36:36,433 --> 00:36:40,767 His holiness, gyalwang karmapa. 803 00:36:51,267 --> 00:36:54,266 Tibetan Buddhists believe that karmapa is the 804 00:36:54,267 --> 00:36:57,432 17th reincarnation of a great teacher who lived 805 00:36:57,433 --> 00:37:00,700 900 years ago. 806 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,799 Good morning. 807 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,399 Gyalwang karmapa: I think you should wear this. 808 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,766 Morgan Freeman: I should? 809 00:37:11,767 --> 00:37:13,433 - Gyalwang karmapa: - Yeah, thank you. 810 00:37:13,436 --> 00:37:15,032 Thank you. 811 00:37:15,033 --> 00:37:16,332 Morgan Freeman: Thank you. 812 00:37:16,333 --> 00:37:17,832 Can we walk? 813 00:37:17,833 --> 00:37:20,566 Gyalwang karmapa: Yeah. 814 00:37:20,567 --> 00:37:22,284 Morgan Freeman: In 1992, a 815 00:37:22,285 --> 00:37:26,200 holy commission hunted for the new karmapa and 816 00:37:26,201 --> 00:37:28,400 found ogyen trinley dorje, 817 00:37:29,067 --> 00:37:31,999 a seven year old son of a nomadic family in 818 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,932 eastern Tibet. 819 00:37:33,933 --> 00:37:35,867 - You were kind of - young for this station? 820 00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:37,066 Gyalwang karmapa: Yes. 821 00:37:37,067 --> 00:37:38,800 - Morgan Freeman: - Okay, so what is it like, 822 00:37:38,803 --> 00:37:40,600 - how do you, - is it all right? 823 00:37:40,603 --> 00:37:42,133 - Gyalwang karmapa: - One way it's meaningful, 824 00:37:42,136 --> 00:37:44,532 one way is a little bit heavy. 825 00:37:44,533 --> 00:37:48,867 People have lots of expectation. 826 00:37:50,167 --> 00:37:52,299 Morgan Freeman: The expectation is heavy for a 827 00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:54,466 30 year old man. 828 00:37:54,467 --> 00:37:57,632 The karmapa must teach how to find enlightenment 829 00:37:57,633 --> 00:38:01,832 while still working to find it for himself. 830 00:38:01,833 --> 00:38:03,100 Gyalwang karmapa: This is 831 00:38:03,101 --> 00:38:06,284 the start of the site that the Buddha's give 832 00:38:06,285 --> 00:38:08,199 first teaching. 833 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:09,800 - Morgan Freeman: - This is the place then, 834 00:38:09,803 --> 00:38:11,300 - where he had his - first sermon after 835 00:38:11,303 --> 00:38:13,166 he reached enlightenment? 836 00:38:13,167 --> 00:38:14,732 Gyalwang karmapa: Yes, yes. 837 00:38:14,733 --> 00:38:16,166 Morgan Freeman: Right. 838 00:38:16,167 --> 00:38:17,967 - Talk to me - just a little bit, 839 00:38:17,970 --> 00:38:20,166 your holiness about enlightenment. 840 00:38:20,167 --> 00:38:22,384 How does one even begin to 841 00:38:22,385 --> 00:38:24,599 go about trying to obtain that? 842 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:25,966 Gyalwang karmapa: Wow! 843 00:38:25,967 --> 00:38:27,467 - Morgan Freeman: - Big question isn't it? 844 00:38:27,470 --> 00:38:28,666 Gyalwang karmapa: Yes. 845 00:38:28,667 --> 00:38:30,233 - Morgan Freeman: - Huge challenge. 846 00:38:30,236 --> 00:38:31,517 Gyalwang karmapa: Huge, yeah, 847 00:38:31,518 --> 00:38:34,400 maybe I think the first part is maybe you need to 848 00:38:34,401 --> 00:38:35,999 recognize yourself like, 849 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,732 where you're from, come from. 850 00:38:37,733 --> 00:38:38,966 Morgan Freeman: Why am I here? 851 00:38:38,967 --> 00:38:40,366 Gyalwang karmapa: Yeah. 852 00:38:40,367 --> 00:38:41,800 Morgan Freeman: So I would 853 00:38:41,801 --> 00:38:45,899 like to get some instruction about enlightenment. 854 00:38:45,900 --> 00:38:47,467 - Gyalwang karmapa: - I will try, I will try. 855 00:38:47,470 --> 00:38:48,732 Yeah, okay. 856 00:38:48,733 --> 00:38:50,199 Morgan Freeman: Okay. 857 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,066 Gyalwang karmapa: I will try. 858 00:38:52,067 --> 00:38:54,767 Thank you. 859 00:38:58,733 --> 00:39:00,600 - Morgan Freeman: The - karmapa tells me meditation 860 00:39:00,603 --> 00:39:02,832 is the key to enlightenment. 861 00:39:02,833 --> 00:39:04,300 If the apocalypse is the 862 00:39:04,301 --> 00:39:05,766 revelation of the true will of 863 00:39:05,767 --> 00:39:08,734 god, meditation aims to 864 00:39:08,735 --> 00:39:11,699 reveal the true will of me. 865 00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:13,367 - Gyalwang karmapa: They - have lots of different 866 00:39:13,370 --> 00:39:19,500 ways to meditate, but the simple 867 00:39:19,501 --> 00:39:22,067 one is to focus your breath. 868 00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:25,233 - Morgan Freeman: - That's the one I know. 869 00:39:25,236 --> 00:39:26,517 Gyalwang karmapa: 870 00:39:26,518 --> 00:39:27,799 You relax your mind. 871 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,966 And don't follow the past, 872 00:39:30,967 --> 00:39:37,500 don't anticipate future, just relax at the moment. 873 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:45,033 Just focus your breathing and that's all. 874 00:39:47,533 --> 00:39:51,067 Yeah, we should try. 875 00:39:54,933 --> 00:40:01,067 [Chanting]. 876 00:40:09,267 --> 00:40:10,967 - Morgan Freeman: It's a lot - of work to move past 877 00:40:10,970 --> 00:40:14,632 all the memories, thoughts and emotions... 878 00:40:14,633 --> 00:40:18,999 To just concentrate on being... 879 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,633 To see what's left when all the noise has gone. 880 00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:33,800 [Chanting]. 881 00:40:44,033 --> 00:40:50,000 [Chanting]. 882 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:05,400 [Chanting]. 883 00:41:07,467 --> 00:41:10,132 Gyalwang karmapa: Okay? 884 00:41:10,133 --> 00:41:11,699 Morgan Freeman: Beautiful. 885 00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:13,299 Gyalwang karmapa: Good? 886 00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:14,732 Morgan Freeman: Yes. 887 00:41:14,733 --> 00:41:16,199 Gyalwang karmapa: Thank you. 888 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,833 - Morgan Freeman: Can I ask - you a philosophical question? 889 00:41:17,836 --> 00:41:18,883 Gyalwang karmapa: 890 00:41:18,884 --> 00:41:19,932 Philosophical? 891 00:41:19,933 --> 00:41:21,766 I will try. 892 00:41:21,767 --> 00:41:26,999 Morgan Freeman: It's about the westerners idea... 893 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:28,599 Gyalwang karmapa: Yeah. 894 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,966 Morgan Freeman: Of apocalypse. 895 00:41:30,967 --> 00:41:35,367 The end of time, the end of being. 896 00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:40,266 Is there such a thing in buddhism? 897 00:41:40,267 --> 00:41:42,699 If when everything stops and every... 898 00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:47,333 The world comes to an end and mankind is judged. 899 00:41:47,733 --> 00:41:50,832 Gyalwang karmapa: We believe that every day is 900 00:41:50,833 --> 00:41:54,166 somewhere one universe it's like... 901 00:41:54,167 --> 00:41:55,432 Morgan Freeman: Ending. 902 00:41:55,433 --> 00:41:56,767 - Gyalwang karmapa: - Ending one it's... 903 00:41:56,770 --> 00:41:58,932 Both: Beginning. 904 00:41:58,933 --> 00:42:00,583 Gyalwang karmapa: 905 00:42:00,584 --> 00:42:03,883 But it's not like a... This kind of judge, how 906 00:42:03,884 --> 00:42:05,532 do I say, judge things. 907 00:42:05,533 --> 00:42:06,967 - Morgan Freeman: - No judgment day? 908 00:42:06,970 --> 00:42:08,933 - Gyalwang karmapa: - No, not judgment day. 909 00:42:08,936 --> 00:42:11,632 This is maybe a little bit different. 910 00:42:11,633 --> 00:42:15,000 Morgan Freeman: So actually, what you're saying 911 00:42:15,001 --> 00:42:18,466 I think is that... There is no end, only change? 912 00:42:18,467 --> 00:42:19,900 - Gyalwang karmapa: - Yeah, change, yes. 913 00:42:19,903 --> 00:42:21,733 - Morgan Freeman: - One thing ends, another begins. 914 00:42:21,736 --> 00:42:23,333 - Gyalwang karmapa: - Yeah, maybe it's, 915 00:42:23,336 --> 00:42:28,066 there are not absolute sort of ending, yeah. 916 00:42:28,067 --> 00:42:29,166 Thank you. 917 00:42:29,167 --> 00:42:30,966 Morgan Freeman: Thank you. 918 00:42:30,967 --> 00:42:33,867 Gyalwang karmapa: Thank you. 919 00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:36,784 Morgan Freeman: When you 920 00:42:36,785 --> 00:42:38,066 meet someone like his holiness, 921 00:42:38,067 --> 00:42:41,299 the karmapa, I guess the thing that stands out 922 00:42:41,300 --> 00:42:44,366 most is his humility. 923 00:42:44,367 --> 00:42:46,984 Karmapa doesn't give you 924 00:42:46,985 --> 00:42:49,599 the impression that he thinks 925 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,199 of himself as greater than you, higher than you, 926 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,032 better in any way than you. 927 00:42:59,033 --> 00:43:04,533 He's here like the rest of us on this quest, 928 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:11,732 trying to understand why we're here, 929 00:43:11,733 --> 00:43:14,600 seeking to unveil the 930 00:43:14,601 --> 00:43:17,467 truth, seeking enlightenment. 931 00:43:19,267 --> 00:43:21,566 But the truth isn't always revealed in a moment 932 00:43:21,567 --> 00:43:24,066 of calm reflection. 933 00:43:24,067 --> 00:43:29,167 [Water rushing [and whipping wind] 934 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,666 ♪ ♪ 935 00:43:34,667 --> 00:43:37,599 August, 2005. 936 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:42,632 Hurricane Katrina slammed into Louisiana. 937 00:43:42,633 --> 00:43:46,733 A catastrophe of historic proportions. 938 00:43:52,367 --> 00:43:54,517 Some even thought the end was 939 00:43:54,518 --> 00:43:56,667 happening here in New Orleans. 940 00:43:58,933 --> 00:44:02,766 Man: New Orleans had a level of sin that was 941 00:44:02,767 --> 00:44:05,267 offensive to god and I believe 942 00:44:05,268 --> 00:44:07,766 that the hurricant Katrina was, 943 00:44:07,767 --> 00:44:10,067 in fact, punishment against 944 00:44:10,068 --> 00:44:12,367 the city of New Orleans. 945 00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:17,767 Man 2: Katrina was a judgement from god. 946 00:44:20,867 --> 00:44:22,867 - Morgan Freeman: - I'm in New Orleans to meet 947 00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:25,266 Katrina survivors. 948 00:44:25,267 --> 00:44:28,066 To learn how they dealt with the end and 949 00:44:28,067 --> 00:44:31,567 how it changed them. 950 00:44:31,933 --> 00:44:34,299 So right now, we are in flood country? 951 00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:35,766 Ernest: Yes, sir. 952 00:44:35,767 --> 00:44:37,600 - Morgan Freeman: This is - where the water actually... 953 00:44:37,603 --> 00:44:41,199 Ernest: Yes, this is actually the 9th ward. 954 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,700 - Morgan Freeman: You - were here during Katrina, 955 00:44:42,703 --> 00:44:44,166 is that right? 956 00:44:44,167 --> 00:44:45,732 Ernest: Yes, I was. 957 00:44:45,733 --> 00:44:48,033 - I was in an apartment building - and I was on the first floor 958 00:44:48,036 --> 00:44:50,850 and I got eight feet of water 959 00:44:50,851 --> 00:44:53,666 and I lost everything I owned. 960 00:44:53,667 --> 00:44:54,967 Morgan Freeman: Did you 961 00:44:54,968 --> 00:44:57,500 have a feeling at some point that this was like 962 00:44:57,501 --> 00:44:58,732 the end of it all? 963 00:44:58,733 --> 00:45:03,067 Ernest: It did seem like the end to me. 964 00:45:07,433 --> 00:45:08,850 Morgan Freeman: 965 00:45:08,851 --> 00:45:10,266 Ernest was far from alone. 966 00:45:10,267 --> 00:45:12,000 New Orleans residents Charles 967 00:45:12,001 --> 00:45:13,732 and Angela marsalis came to 968 00:45:13,733 --> 00:45:16,433 their local church, a shelter 969 00:45:16,434 --> 00:45:19,133 in the time of the storm. 970 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:22,066 We're in the carrolton Avenue church of Christ, 971 00:45:22,067 --> 00:45:24,317 this is, you spent a little 972 00:45:24,318 --> 00:45:26,566 time here during the storm. 973 00:45:26,567 --> 00:45:28,632 How did you wind up here? 974 00:45:28,633 --> 00:45:30,317 Angela marsalis: We were gonna 975 00:45:30,318 --> 00:45:34,084 lodge here for the night and then we were gonna go 976 00:45:34,085 --> 00:45:38,767 home the next day and there was a night we could 977 00:45:38,768 --> 00:45:41,367 hear the wind rushing in. 978 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,999 It's just really, really loud. 979 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,367 I mean, at that time it was 980 00:45:47,368 --> 00:45:48,732 really scary and I just began 981 00:45:48,733 --> 00:45:50,832 to kneel down and pray. 982 00:45:50,833 --> 00:45:52,900 We could actually, you know, 983 00:45:52,901 --> 00:45:54,966 see the water rising and we 984 00:45:54,967 --> 00:45:58,666 thought it'd be stopped, but it just kept rising. 985 00:45:58,667 --> 00:46:00,834 Morgan Freeman: The marsalis 986 00:46:00,835 --> 00:46:03,000 family was completely cut off. 987 00:46:04,633 --> 00:46:06,350 More than a hundred billion 988 00:46:06,351 --> 00:46:10,532 gallons of water had surged through broken levees. 989 00:46:10,533 --> 00:46:11,967 Three days passed before 990 00:46:11,968 --> 00:46:15,917 the red cross evacuated them to a marooned bridge 991 00:46:15,918 --> 00:46:18,433 full of desperate survivors. 992 00:46:19,033 --> 00:46:20,833 - Angela marsalis: It was like, - pitch black dark. 993 00:46:20,836 --> 00:46:23,000 Everything in that water, 994 00:46:23,001 --> 00:46:25,167 alligator, snakes, everything. 995 00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:27,834 I mean, they had sick people, 996 00:46:27,835 --> 00:46:29,766 they had women in wheelchairs. 997 00:46:29,767 --> 00:46:31,334 Charles marsalis: We saw the 998 00:46:31,335 --> 00:46:32,899 guys having drugs over here, 999 00:46:32,900 --> 00:46:35,400 selling drugs, guns, I felt 1000 00:46:35,401 --> 00:46:37,899 that the devil was at work. 1001 00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:39,767 - Angela marsalis: It - was really a dark time. 1002 00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:41,932 It was really dark, yeah. 1003 00:46:41,933 --> 00:46:44,167 - Morgan Freeman: Now this, - these are dire circumstances 1004 00:46:44,170 --> 00:46:47,499 and dire circumstances can bring out the best and 1005 00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:48,799 the worst in people. 1006 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,432 Charles marsalis: Yes, yes. 1007 00:46:50,433 --> 00:46:52,467 - Morgan Freeman: How did - you function through that? 1008 00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:54,533 - Charles marsalis: Well, - I'm a minister and you got 1009 00:46:54,536 --> 00:46:56,966 children of god sitting here, so I told me wife, 1010 00:46:56,967 --> 00:46:58,600 it's time for us to get busy, 1011 00:46:58,601 --> 00:47:00,232 we got to do something. 1012 00:47:00,233 --> 00:47:02,599 And so we just started singing and, and then the 1013 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,799 next thing we know in the darkness, 1014 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,500 you can hear people saying, sing this song, 1015 00:47:07,501 --> 00:47:08,866 sing that song. 1016 00:47:08,867 --> 00:47:10,034 And how long, can't remember, 1017 00:47:10,035 --> 00:47:11,199 how long did we sing? 1018 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:12,499 Angela marsalis: All night. 1019 00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:15,599 [Laughs]. 1020 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,367 - Angela marsalis: We - just knew that god would get 1021 00:47:17,370 --> 00:47:18,899 us out of there. 1022 00:47:18,900 --> 00:47:21,167 - Charles marsalis: Not even - Katrina could shake that faith 1023 00:47:21,170 --> 00:47:23,699 of god, no way. 1024 00:47:23,700 --> 00:47:25,817 ♪ Angela marsalis: Jesus is 1025 00:47:25,818 --> 00:47:27,932 a rock in a weary land, ♪ 1026 00:47:27,933 --> 00:47:32,200 ♪ a weary land, a weary land. ♪ 1027 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,300 - ♪ Jesus is a - rock in a... ♪♪ 1028 00:47:34,303 --> 00:47:35,917 Morgan Freeman: Charles and 1029 00:47:35,918 --> 00:47:37,532 Angela did get out in the end. 1030 00:47:37,533 --> 00:47:40,066 A year later they returned to New Orleans and 1031 00:47:40,067 --> 00:47:44,200 rebuilt their lives. 1032 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,399 The experience of getting so close to the end and 1033 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,550 so close to god drove them 1034 00:47:50,551 --> 00:47:52,699 to start their own church. 1035 00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:54,200 Charles marsalis: Well, how 1036 00:47:54,201 --> 00:47:55,699 many out here remember Katrina? 1037 00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:58,166 Y'all remember the storm? 1038 00:47:58,167 --> 00:48:00,132 I remember that. 1039 00:48:00,133 --> 00:48:03,367 Some folk even said that that's 1040 00:48:03,368 --> 00:48:06,599 god punishment on New Orleans. 1041 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,666 And I had to tell them folk, no! 1042 00:48:09,667 --> 00:48:13,432 God allowed it to happen. 1043 00:48:13,433 --> 00:48:15,167 - Angela marsalis: You know, - a lot of people had their 1044 00:48:15,170 --> 00:48:18,700 eyes on New Orleans, but they saw something 1045 00:48:18,701 --> 00:48:21,332 good that could come out of something bad. 1046 00:48:21,333 --> 00:48:23,133 - Charles marsalis: Had it - not been for the storm, 1047 00:48:23,136 --> 00:48:26,366 we wouldn't be here at this building, probably. 1048 00:48:26,367 --> 00:48:28,899 We wouldn't have met some of these people that 1049 00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:30,699 you seen in here today. 1050 00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:32,999 I believe if it wasn't for that storm. 1051 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,567 - Morgan Freeman: - You know, Charles, 1052 00:48:34,570 --> 00:48:36,099 that's very Buddhist. 1053 00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:37,332 Charles marsalis: Yeah? 1054 00:48:37,333 --> 00:48:39,566 Morgan Freeman: Yeah, the Buddhist say every 1055 00:48:39,567 --> 00:48:43,132 ending is a beginning. 1056 00:48:43,133 --> 00:48:44,567 Charles marsalis: 1057 00:48:44,568 --> 00:48:45,999 It's god's will. 1058 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,166 God saw this before we saw this. 1059 00:48:49,167 --> 00:48:50,967 We just got to allow ourself 1060 00:48:50,968 --> 00:48:52,766 to be willing to let god 1061 00:48:52,767 --> 00:48:56,266 use us in part of that will. 1062 00:48:56,267 --> 00:48:58,217 Morgan Freeman: Katrina didn't 1063 00:48:58,218 --> 00:49:00,166 wash New Orleans of its sin. 1064 00:49:00,167 --> 00:49:03,232 It didn't come as divine punishment. 1065 00:49:03,233 --> 00:49:05,966 It caused suffering, yes. 1066 00:49:05,967 --> 00:49:08,566 But it also opened people's eyes, 1067 00:49:08,567 --> 00:49:12,199 to Cherish what they had left and to work together 1068 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,000 to build something better. 1069 00:49:17,133 --> 00:49:20,599 I set out to understand what the apocalypse means 1070 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,666 to people of many different faiths. 1071 00:49:23,667 --> 00:49:26,200 I had always thought of it 1072 00:49:26,201 --> 00:49:28,732 as a all destroying doomsday. 1073 00:49:28,733 --> 00:49:30,832 But I've discovered that some people yearn 1074 00:49:30,833 --> 00:49:32,766 for the apocalypse. 1075 00:49:32,767 --> 00:49:35,532 They want to be free of injustice. 1076 00:49:35,533 --> 00:49:38,366 They want to escape suffering. 1077 00:49:38,367 --> 00:49:42,099 They want a better world. 1078 00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:43,832 Apocalypse. 1079 00:49:43,833 --> 00:49:48,199 It's a Greek word meaning lifting the veil. 1080 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,899 It's not about war, it's about enlightenment. 1081 00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:54,399 It's not about death. 1082 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,599 It's a state of mind and heart that helps us 1083 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,632 see the truth. 1084 00:49:59,633 --> 00:50:03,299 Not some far off day of judgment. 1085 00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:07,067 It's here, it's now.