1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:38,038 --> 00:00:41,842 *dreamy music 4 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:44,345 -[man] Are you hungry, Al? 5 00:00:44,378 --> 00:00:47,047 -Well, yeah! I could-- I could use a... 6 00:00:47,115 --> 00:00:50,851 ham sandwich, mmmm. 7 00:00:50,884 --> 00:00:51,619 -[snorts] 8 00:00:51,652 --> 00:00:54,388 [groans] 9 00:00:54,455 --> 00:00:56,490 -Where's that chicken? What is going on? 10 00:00:56,524 --> 00:00:58,492 -[Will VO] Characters have a simplicity to them and a 11 00:00:58,526 --> 00:00:59,827 complexity to them. 12 00:00:59,860 --> 00:01:02,463 -[grunts] 13 00:01:02,530 --> 00:01:03,797 [screams] 14 00:01:03,864 --> 00:01:05,433 [chicken screams] 15 00:01:05,466 --> 00:01:06,800 [knocking on door] 16 00:01:06,867 --> 00:01:08,136 -[woman] Who's here? 17 00:01:08,136 --> 00:01:09,270 -[woman] Here comes the director! 18 00:01:09,303 --> 00:01:11,305 -[man] I can't hear anything! 19 00:01:11,372 --> 00:01:13,774 -[woman] Quiet on the set! 20 00:01:13,807 --> 00:01:15,909 -Hey, have you guys finished that shot yet? 21 00:01:15,943 --> 00:01:17,711 -[Will VO] Interesting characters often have a simple 22 00:01:17,745 --> 00:01:21,149 goal and a simple purpose, 23 00:01:21,215 --> 00:01:23,451 but it's in great conflict with 24 00:01:23,484 --> 00:01:27,155 either the world around him, with other people. 25 00:01:27,155 --> 00:01:31,492 One could say that the story makes the character or the 26 00:01:31,559 --> 00:01:35,163 character makes the story. 27 00:01:35,163 --> 00:01:40,000 *driving ambient music 28 00:01:40,067 --> 00:01:41,502 -[woman] Please, raise your right hand. 29 00:01:41,569 --> 00:01:42,936 Do you solemnly swear that this testimony taken will be the 30 00:01:42,970 --> 00:01:44,472 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth 31 00:01:44,505 --> 00:01:45,439 so help you God? 32 00:01:45,473 --> 00:01:47,675 -I do. 33 00:01:47,741 --> 00:01:48,909 -[man] Good morning, Mr. Vinton. 34 00:01:48,942 --> 00:01:50,444 -Good morning. 35 00:01:50,478 --> 00:01:54,315 -[man] Are you aware that you have sued Mr. Knight for 36 00:01:54,348 --> 00:01:56,750 $3,000,000? 37 00:01:56,784 --> 00:01:59,453 -Yes. There were extraordinarily 38 00:01:59,487 --> 00:02:02,590 strange happenings 39 00:02:02,656 --> 00:02:06,093 and amazing manipulation 40 00:02:06,194 --> 00:02:09,897 led by -- without question -- led by Phil Knight, 41 00:02:09,930 --> 00:02:13,667 who had other motives for the company. 42 00:02:13,701 --> 00:02:16,103 -That reflects a dispute, wouldn't you agree? 43 00:02:16,204 --> 00:02:18,038 *** 44 00:02:18,071 --> 00:02:19,773 -Yeah. 45 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,777 -It still remains to me stunning really that the founder of the 46 00:02:23,844 --> 00:02:28,716 company could basically ignore the interests of shareholders 47 00:02:28,749 --> 00:02:31,952 other than Will Vinton or myself -- the employees, 48 00:02:32,019 --> 00:02:35,223 the creditors -- ignore all their interests and put this 49 00:02:35,223 --> 00:02:37,458 company on the threshold of bankruptcy 50 00:02:37,525 --> 00:02:39,227 for no logical reason. 51 00:02:39,260 --> 00:02:41,028 -[Vinton] No, that's not correct. 52 00:02:41,061 --> 00:02:45,466 It's definitely, absolutely the other way around. 53 00:02:45,533 --> 00:02:50,538 *"I Heard It Through the Grapevine" by Isaac Brock* 54 00:03:15,028 --> 00:03:19,567 *** 55 00:03:51,865 --> 00:03:53,934 *ethereal music 56 00:03:54,001 --> 00:03:55,503 [tv clicks on] 57 00:03:55,536 --> 00:03:58,672 -Were you one of those kids that always played with the home 8mm 58 00:03:58,706 --> 00:04:01,108 movie camera and was making projects all the time? 59 00:04:01,141 --> 00:04:04,345 -Projects, yeah, a lot of projects when I was a kid. 60 00:04:04,412 --> 00:04:06,580 *** 61 00:04:06,614 --> 00:04:08,449 Grew up in McMinnville, Oregon... 62 00:04:08,482 --> 00:04:11,819 classic Small Town, U.S.A. 63 00:04:11,852 --> 00:04:14,822 *** 64 00:04:14,855 --> 00:04:16,857 I never really had much interest in film production 65 00:04:16,924 --> 00:04:19,827 until I actually went to college and became very, 66 00:04:19,860 --> 00:04:22,162 very interested in it. 67 00:04:22,195 --> 00:04:26,700 My sister, who was in Berkeley, strongly encouraged me to be a 68 00:04:26,767 --> 00:04:30,504 part of this scene that was Berkeley in the '60s. 69 00:04:32,139 --> 00:04:34,608 There was just so much going on. 70 00:04:34,642 --> 00:04:38,346 *psychedelic rock 71 00:04:44,552 --> 00:04:46,687 The whole Claymation thing really evolved 72 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,523 out of studying architecture. 73 00:04:49,790 --> 00:04:53,727 I was very fascinated with Antoni Gaudí who had done 74 00:04:53,794 --> 00:04:57,798 extraordinarily organic shapes in architecture, 75 00:04:57,831 --> 00:05:00,734 things that had to be sculpted. 76 00:05:00,768 --> 00:05:04,204 And that got me messing with plasticine clay, 77 00:05:04,237 --> 00:05:07,708 and the filmmaking and the clay got together and-- for some 78 00:05:07,741 --> 00:05:10,110 early experiments. 79 00:05:10,143 --> 00:05:13,947 My father used to shoot 16mm film as home movie. 80 00:05:13,981 --> 00:05:16,984 I asked him if I could use his camera, 81 00:05:17,050 --> 00:05:20,388 so I got this great little filmmaker kit and kind of 82 00:05:20,421 --> 00:05:23,757 instantly became a filmmaker. 83 00:05:24,157 --> 00:05:26,259 My father was really hoping I would be, 84 00:05:26,293 --> 00:05:28,796 you know, a corporate executive or something, 85 00:05:28,829 --> 00:05:32,065 but he also really encouraged me to explore and try things and, 86 00:05:32,099 --> 00:05:33,634 you know, give it a go. 87 00:05:33,667 --> 00:05:35,469 And if you believe in something strong enough, 88 00:05:35,503 --> 00:05:37,971 you'll find a way to make it happen. 89 00:05:38,906 --> 00:05:41,174 So first thing I started doing is shooting a lot of stuff on 90 00:05:41,241 --> 00:05:42,610 the Berkeley campus. 91 00:05:42,643 --> 00:05:45,178 This is the '60s; things were getting pretty wacky. 92 00:05:45,245 --> 00:05:49,417 *rock music 93 00:06:00,127 --> 00:06:03,431 I was really fascinated by what cameras could do, 94 00:06:03,431 --> 00:06:06,033 and, in particular, stop motion. 95 00:06:06,066 --> 00:06:08,702 You know, setting a camera on a tripod and shooting one frame at 96 00:06:08,736 --> 00:06:12,072 a time, making things move. 97 00:06:12,105 --> 00:06:14,942 And animating human bodies. 98 00:06:15,008 --> 00:06:16,744 You know, sort of looked at this stuff and I said, 99 00:06:16,777 --> 00:06:19,680 "Whoa, that's pretty cool!" 100 00:06:19,713 --> 00:06:23,016 I learned really quickly how you cut, 101 00:06:23,050 --> 00:06:26,754 how you focus an audience's attention, 102 00:06:26,787 --> 00:06:30,624 the language of film and the power of film. 103 00:06:30,691 --> 00:06:34,294 I wasn't a storyteller, but I saw the power of storytelling. 104 00:06:38,899 --> 00:06:40,367 [clap] 105 00:06:40,468 --> 00:06:43,871 There was a very active film community in Berkeley -- 106 00:06:43,904 --> 00:06:45,873 filmmakers, people that did various kinds 107 00:06:45,906 --> 00:06:47,575 of experimental films. 108 00:06:47,608 --> 00:06:50,043 *funky ambient music 109 00:06:50,077 --> 00:06:53,080 I organized evenings where I'd stick an animation camera on the 110 00:06:53,113 --> 00:06:56,283 table, give everybody a beer in one hand, 111 00:06:56,316 --> 00:06:58,619 blob of clay in the other, you know, getting a little 112 00:06:58,652 --> 00:07:02,389 inebriated... taking a puff, as well. 113 00:07:04,191 --> 00:07:05,893 And, of course, most of this stuff became 114 00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:07,327 a little pornographic. 115 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,530 [glug and swallow] 116 00:07:09,563 --> 00:07:10,964 [vomit] 117 00:07:10,998 --> 00:07:14,568 That was the beginning of claymation for me. 118 00:07:14,635 --> 00:07:19,406 It was a real epiphany to see these very, 119 00:07:19,507 --> 00:07:24,512 very crude things happening on this tabletop, 120 00:07:25,679 --> 00:07:29,850 to see these characters evolve in this incredibly simple and 121 00:07:29,883 --> 00:07:31,985 non-planned sort of way. 122 00:07:32,019 --> 00:07:34,354 [man laughs] 123 00:07:34,387 --> 00:07:37,891 [birds chirp] 124 00:07:37,925 --> 00:07:41,862 What I was most amazed about was how this completely 125 00:07:41,895 --> 00:07:46,900 inanimate wad of clay could move and be imbued with life. 126 00:07:47,367 --> 00:07:52,105 *upbeat piano music 127 00:07:54,908 --> 00:07:57,711 It's the fascination one has with magic. 128 00:07:57,745 --> 00:08:01,782 *dreamy music 129 00:08:02,115 --> 00:08:06,554 When I first saw this stuff, it really made an impression on me. 130 00:08:06,587 --> 00:08:09,757 And I felt -- even then -- that if I could marry the magic that 131 00:08:09,790 --> 00:08:13,561 I saw with really solid film skills, 132 00:08:13,594 --> 00:08:15,428 I could be really powerful. 133 00:08:15,462 --> 00:08:18,031 -[man VO] Kneel down in the dust! 134 00:08:18,098 --> 00:08:23,103 Toiling over a lump of clay 'til he shaped it! 135 00:08:25,305 --> 00:08:27,575 -[Will VO] In order to do the kind of experimenting that I 136 00:08:27,608 --> 00:08:30,878 wanted to do, taking it to the next level, 137 00:08:30,944 --> 00:08:34,447 I really kind of needed a little studio. 138 00:08:34,481 --> 00:08:37,384 And actually managed to buy a small house in Portland, 139 00:08:37,450 --> 00:08:41,021 and it ended up being my future animation studio. 140 00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:45,192 Well, for several years while making live-action and a few cel 141 00:08:45,225 --> 00:08:48,896 animated films, I was working on a technique of clay animation. 142 00:08:48,962 --> 00:08:51,398 It was a technique that Bob Gardiner-- a sculptor -- and I 143 00:08:51,464 --> 00:08:53,000 worked on during college. 144 00:08:53,033 --> 00:08:56,203 *mellow ambient music 145 00:08:56,236 --> 00:08:58,672 Bob was crazy, wonderful artist 146 00:08:58,706 --> 00:09:01,274 -- really out there -- and just 147 00:09:01,308 --> 00:09:05,613 a kind of a wild energy that was intoxicating, 148 00:09:05,613 --> 00:09:09,449 and classic artist with a capital A. 149 00:09:09,482 --> 00:09:12,452 I happened to know that he would be -- and was -- not 150 00:09:12,485 --> 00:09:14,421 doing anything. 151 00:09:14,454 --> 00:09:18,325 "Say, why don't you come on up, and let's make a film?" 152 00:09:19,126 --> 00:09:22,663 So Bob came up and lived at my place and ended up living there 153 00:09:22,730 --> 00:09:25,633 for like a year and a half, [laughs] 154 00:09:25,633 --> 00:09:28,769 much to my wife's chagrin. 155 00:09:28,802 --> 00:09:32,472 Because Bob's lifestyle is loose with various psychedelics, 156 00:09:32,505 --> 00:09:34,407 which I was dabbling in at the time too, 157 00:09:34,441 --> 00:09:35,843 but not as intensely. 158 00:09:35,909 --> 00:09:37,510 [laughs] 159 00:09:37,645 --> 00:09:40,748 But I always liked working with really good artists. 160 00:09:40,781 --> 00:09:45,085 Bob was absolutely one of those people, 161 00:09:45,118 --> 00:09:49,923 in the sense that he was intensely on another plane. 162 00:09:49,957 --> 00:09:52,926 -[Bill VO] Bob was a really charming guy. 163 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,663 He was a mad genius. 164 00:09:55,663 --> 00:09:57,665 Together they were the perfect team. 165 00:09:57,698 --> 00:10:02,269 You had the wild, crazy artist with the organized producer. 166 00:10:02,302 --> 00:10:06,273 *** 167 00:10:06,306 --> 00:10:09,142 -[Will VO] We spent a lot of time in that basement 168 00:10:09,176 --> 00:10:11,812 experimenting with clay... 169 00:10:11,845 --> 00:10:16,850 metamorphosis, lip-sync, cutting techniques. 170 00:10:18,185 --> 00:10:19,787 Clay animation had been around forever. 171 00:10:19,820 --> 00:10:21,288 People ask if we invented it. 172 00:10:21,321 --> 00:10:24,792 No, but what we did was brought it to the forefront by doing a 173 00:10:24,825 --> 00:10:27,560 lot of experimenting. 174 00:10:27,627 --> 00:10:31,865 *contemplative music 175 00:10:31,899 --> 00:10:34,201 I decided to do a little short short film that really showed 176 00:10:34,234 --> 00:10:36,970 off some of these techniques. 177 00:10:37,004 --> 00:10:38,672 [projector whirs] 178 00:10:38,706 --> 00:10:40,407 [door creaks] 179 00:10:40,473 --> 00:10:43,043 [man grunting] 180 00:10:43,076 --> 00:10:45,746 We had trouble keeping the characters very stable and 181 00:10:45,813 --> 00:10:50,583 steady, and so we tended to make the characters all be winos so 182 00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:52,385 they could stumble around. 183 00:10:52,419 --> 00:10:56,089 [man cackles] 184 00:10:57,157 --> 00:10:58,491 -Thank you for turning me on. 185 00:10:58,525 --> 00:11:01,895 I am a replica of the model 5-0-5 Type C electro-brain 186 00:11:01,929 --> 00:11:05,165 correct, error key muta-- muta-- mutation, 187 00:11:05,232 --> 00:11:07,334 mutations, metamorphological mutations, 188 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,302 mutations of reversal, comparing mutations, 189 00:11:09,336 --> 00:11:11,772 mutations, metamorphology, push and program, 190 00:11:11,805 --> 00:11:15,108 push and as the-- as the-- as the world turns... 191 00:11:15,142 --> 00:11:17,277 -[Will VO] We were real excited about getting it done in 192 00:11:17,310 --> 00:11:21,414 time for this local film festival here in Portland, 193 00:11:21,448 --> 00:11:23,951 and it was rejected. 194 00:11:23,984 --> 00:11:26,019 We were just devastated. 195 00:11:26,086 --> 00:11:29,589 It was a sad time, but never stops me. 196 00:11:29,622 --> 00:11:33,493 So I made as many prints as I could afford and started sending 197 00:11:33,526 --> 00:11:36,196 it around to film festivals. 198 00:11:36,263 --> 00:11:39,332 And suddenly we started getting amazing response. 199 00:11:39,366 --> 00:11:42,770 Top prize at major, big-time festivals, 200 00:11:42,770 --> 00:11:45,638 and it got nominated for an Academy Award. 201 00:11:45,672 --> 00:11:49,209 -The winner is 'Closed Mondays,' Will Vinton and Bob Gardiner. 202 00:11:49,276 --> 00:11:54,147 [applause] 203 00:11:54,181 --> 00:11:57,117 *upbeat orchestral music 204 00:11:57,150 --> 00:11:59,319 -I'd like to thank family and friends, 205 00:11:59,352 --> 00:12:01,421 and uh, Will. 206 00:12:01,454 --> 00:12:02,689 Thank you very much. 207 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:07,460 -Thanks members of the Academy for an incredible honor. 208 00:12:07,527 --> 00:12:11,131 And hello and thank you to all our friends back home in Oregon. 209 00:12:11,198 --> 00:12:13,867 [applause] 210 00:12:13,901 --> 00:12:16,136 -[Will VO] After the win, we were partying at the 211 00:12:16,203 --> 00:12:17,805 Governor's Ball. 212 00:12:17,871 --> 00:12:22,542 Bob's mother came up to him with quite a serious face, 213 00:12:22,575 --> 00:12:26,046 and she said this was too much too soon, 214 00:12:26,079 --> 00:12:29,382 and this is the kiss of death. 215 00:12:29,416 --> 00:12:33,086 It made me really concerned about what ultimately happens 216 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,823 with Bob. 217 00:12:36,089 --> 00:12:38,591 Winning an Oscar was huge. 218 00:12:38,625 --> 00:12:39,960 Seemed to me kind of an opportunity 219 00:12:39,993 --> 00:12:42,830 to explore things further. 220 00:12:42,830 --> 00:12:46,266 I was just itching to do more projects. 221 00:12:46,299 --> 00:12:49,903 But for Bob, winning the Academy Award was such a heady thing. 222 00:12:49,937 --> 00:12:51,839 [pop, horn blows] 223 00:12:51,905 --> 00:12:56,910 He was off doing all sorts of crazy things. 224 00:12:56,977 --> 00:13:01,481 Bob would walk around town with his Oscar in his pocket and 225 00:13:01,514 --> 00:13:04,885 stick it up on a bar and see who'd buy him drinks. 226 00:13:04,918 --> 00:13:09,522 That was the way he saw what he was gonna do with this Oscar. 227 00:13:10,190 --> 00:13:13,693 It got to be so hard that I couldn't count on him. 228 00:13:14,061 --> 00:13:17,230 It was just such a clash of working styles. 229 00:13:17,264 --> 00:13:20,067 We felt it was good to do our own things and then help each 230 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,402 other out. 231 00:13:23,003 --> 00:13:25,672 -[Bill VO] Bob set up his own little studio and he got 232 00:13:25,705 --> 00:13:28,942 a commission from Rolling Stone to do a TV show. 233 00:13:29,009 --> 00:13:32,445 *rock music 234 00:13:32,712 --> 00:13:35,215 I got to visit his studio and see what he was doing, 235 00:13:35,248 --> 00:13:36,917 and I was really impressed. 236 00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:41,421 So he did get work after he left Vinton, 237 00:13:41,454 --> 00:13:44,091 but he wasn't a good businessman and he couldn't follow through 238 00:13:44,124 --> 00:13:45,592 on it. 239 00:13:45,625 --> 00:13:49,963 I think he was bipolar, so unfortunately he descended into 240 00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:55,035 this drunken stupor, and he would rail at Vinton and claim 241 00:13:55,702 --> 00:14:00,707 that he was really the artistic genius behind 'Closed Mondays,' 242 00:14:01,008 --> 00:14:05,678 that he developed the Claymation technique and that Vinton never 243 00:14:05,712 --> 00:14:08,181 gave him credit. 244 00:14:08,215 --> 00:14:12,385 Will and him separated, but Will filled the vacuum left by Bob 245 00:14:12,452 --> 00:14:16,223 with really great animators. 246 00:14:16,723 --> 00:14:18,825 -[Will VO] Everything I did after that was Will 247 00:14:18,926 --> 00:14:22,062 Vinton Productions. 248 00:14:22,129 --> 00:14:23,196 -[man] Will Vinton interview, take one. 249 00:14:23,230 --> 00:14:24,131 [clap] 250 00:14:24,164 --> 00:14:25,132 Second camera. 251 00:14:25,165 --> 00:14:26,166 [clap] 252 00:14:26,199 --> 00:14:27,367 And the third camera. 253 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:28,301 [clap] 254 00:14:28,335 --> 00:14:29,937 *groovy ambient music 255 00:14:29,937 --> 00:14:32,940 -That was the beginning of this wonderful, 256 00:14:32,940 --> 00:14:36,944 delightful collaborative kind of phase 257 00:14:36,944 --> 00:14:39,212 where the goal was to try to find some way we could 258 00:14:39,246 --> 00:14:43,316 push the Claymation into some new areas. 259 00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:44,985 -[Bill VO] He had this little studio that was 260 00:14:45,018 --> 00:14:47,254 behind a barbershop. 261 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,958 Walk past the barbershop and up these steps and into this secret 262 00:14:50,991 --> 00:14:53,961 domain, and suddenly there's an animation studio. 263 00:14:55,762 --> 00:14:58,498 And so it was like going into a James Bond movie. 264 00:14:58,531 --> 00:15:01,268 [high-pitched swirling noises] 265 00:15:01,301 --> 00:15:02,735 It was like magic. 266 00:15:02,769 --> 00:15:04,972 You would not believe what it felt like to walk 267 00:15:05,005 --> 00:15:06,339 through that place. 268 00:15:06,406 --> 00:15:07,975 [bike bell rings] 269 00:15:08,008 --> 00:15:11,011 -[Melissa VO] The studio was like the mother-ship. 270 00:15:11,078 --> 00:15:13,446 I remember clearly one day thinking, 271 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,984 "We're all gonna end up being old together and having an old 272 00:15:17,017 --> 00:15:19,486 persons' home-- retirement home. 273 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:21,254 We're all gonna be living together." 274 00:15:21,288 --> 00:15:23,023 Because it all felt very close. 275 00:15:23,090 --> 00:15:24,691 *** 276 00:15:24,757 --> 00:15:26,793 -When you walk away, you track it out. 277 00:15:26,826 --> 00:15:28,295 -[Chuck VO] It was very hippie-like. 278 00:15:28,328 --> 00:15:29,429 -Can you smell that? 279 00:15:29,462 --> 00:15:30,697 -[Chuck VO] A sort of commune. 280 00:15:30,763 --> 00:15:32,199 -Huh? 281 00:15:32,265 --> 00:15:34,134 You got some of it, don't you? 282 00:15:34,167 --> 00:15:36,003 -[Chuck VO] I have my actual contract. 283 00:15:36,036 --> 00:15:38,371 It doesn't even have my real name on it. 284 00:15:38,438 --> 00:15:39,639 It was for fun. 285 00:15:39,672 --> 00:15:41,641 There was nothing legal about it. 286 00:15:41,674 --> 00:15:43,010 It was just like, "Hey you wanna work here? 287 00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:44,011 Okay, well what's your name? 288 00:15:44,011 --> 00:15:46,346 I'll just make one up." 289 00:15:46,379 --> 00:15:49,316 The word "corporate" didn't exist. 290 00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:52,185 It just didn't feel like a business. 291 00:15:52,352 --> 00:15:55,288 It felt like art school plus vacation. 292 00:15:55,322 --> 00:15:57,290 *** 293 00:15:57,324 --> 00:15:59,792 -[Will VO] We weren't a very sophisticated business. 294 00:15:59,826 --> 00:16:03,196 We were a collective of artists focused on doing 295 00:16:03,230 --> 00:16:06,366 good creative work. 296 00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:11,138 -[Michele VO] The energy was so melodic and forward-moving. 297 00:16:11,204 --> 00:16:14,207 I felt like I was working with a master who was creating 298 00:16:14,241 --> 00:16:17,610 something really wonderful that was gonna endure for a 299 00:16:17,644 --> 00:16:20,447 very long time. 300 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,483 -On those cues, we're gonna turn on the lights. 301 00:16:23,550 --> 00:16:28,555 *delicate ambient music 302 00:16:28,788 --> 00:16:31,224 -Maybe have some [clapping] ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. 303 00:16:31,258 --> 00:16:36,263 *jaunty driving music 304 00:16:37,930 --> 00:16:40,300 [hammering] 305 00:16:40,333 --> 00:16:42,902 -[man VO] Will Vinton's characters seem almost human, 306 00:16:42,935 --> 00:16:45,105 partly because they are. 307 00:16:45,138 --> 00:16:47,807 -[woman VO] In fact, the entire production is shot and 308 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,845 soundtracks recorded with live actors before animating begins. 309 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,082 -You keep looking out the window because-- 310 00:16:55,082 --> 00:16:58,685 -I thought that I-- that you were-- 311 00:16:58,751 --> 00:17:02,722 [laughter] 312 00:17:04,591 --> 00:17:06,726 -[Will VO] That whole first decade was all about 313 00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:10,763 trying to see what we could do, see how far we could go. 314 00:17:10,830 --> 00:17:15,835 *psychedelic rock music 315 00:17:17,770 --> 00:17:19,206 What's gonna be different about it? 316 00:17:19,239 --> 00:17:21,841 What are we gonna learn from this one that we didn't learn 317 00:17:21,874 --> 00:17:24,711 from previous ones, and what can we take forward into the 318 00:17:24,744 --> 00:17:26,246 next project? 319 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:29,682 *epic rock music 320 00:17:42,195 --> 00:17:46,799 I hardly even remember thinking about making money. 321 00:17:46,866 --> 00:17:50,437 The thinking was always about what we could do to make the 322 00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:53,473 projects as cool as they could possibly be. 323 00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:54,941 [water bubbles] 324 00:17:54,974 --> 00:17:57,377 We did so many things as creatively as we did by virtue 325 00:17:57,410 --> 00:17:58,811 of the fact that we were doing them very, 326 00:17:58,878 --> 00:18:01,981 very inexpensively. 327 00:18:02,449 --> 00:18:04,784 [dinosaur growl] 328 00:18:04,817 --> 00:18:06,819 [slurps] 329 00:18:08,155 --> 00:18:11,358 Lower the budget is, we could get creative control and do 330 00:18:11,391 --> 00:18:13,726 wonderful things. 331 00:18:13,793 --> 00:18:15,495 -Then they go to the bar and drink on furlough and they fight 332 00:18:15,528 --> 00:18:16,729 the air force, they fight the navy-- 333 00:18:16,796 --> 00:18:19,065 [shouting and commotion] 334 00:18:19,166 --> 00:18:20,367 Of course, there's no coast guard. 335 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,235 Oh, and then, of course, you know, back home there was the 336 00:18:22,302 --> 00:18:24,471 Andrews sisters singing "Bugle Boy" of Company C. 337 00:18:24,504 --> 00:18:28,241 *female chorus singing 338 00:18:28,308 --> 00:18:30,477 -[Will VO] We knew we were pioneering something. 339 00:18:30,510 --> 00:18:34,414 We were doing something that had never really been done before, 340 00:18:34,481 --> 00:18:39,352 during which we picked up four more Academy Award nominations. 341 00:18:39,386 --> 00:18:41,854 Nobody ever told me I couldn't do it. 342 00:18:41,888 --> 00:18:44,891 All I've seen in my experience -- in my life -- has been that 343 00:18:44,924 --> 00:18:47,394 if you put your mind to it, and believe that you can do it 344 00:18:47,427 --> 00:18:49,596 -- and want to do it -- you'll do it. 345 00:18:49,662 --> 00:18:54,667 *uplifting orchestral music 346 00:19:01,941 --> 00:19:03,443 -[man] Let her go! 347 00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:05,212 -[girl] You can make it, fly! 348 00:19:05,212 --> 00:19:09,316 *** 349 00:19:09,349 --> 00:19:10,983 [bells chime] 350 00:19:11,017 --> 00:19:12,285 -[Will VO] We all charged ahead, 351 00:19:12,285 --> 00:19:14,754 expanding it and trying to grow it and move it in whatever ways 352 00:19:14,787 --> 00:19:16,623 we possibly could. 353 00:19:16,656 --> 00:19:20,227 [rattles] 354 00:19:20,260 --> 00:19:22,229 [glistens] 355 00:19:22,229 --> 00:19:24,231 [slides click] 356 00:19:24,264 --> 00:19:26,799 -Will loved the fact that he didn't have to be in Los Angeles 357 00:19:26,833 --> 00:19:29,669 to do this kind of work and to get noticed. 358 00:19:29,702 --> 00:19:32,038 -[man VO] Has there ever been a temptation for you to move from 359 00:19:32,104 --> 00:19:35,107 Portland to Hollywood where all the big film business is? 360 00:19:35,141 --> 00:19:40,146 -Well, in all honesty there's some small amount of temptation. 361 00:19:40,247 --> 00:19:41,348 -[Craig VO] Here you are in Portland, 362 00:19:41,381 --> 00:19:43,816 which is hardly a film center. 363 00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:45,952 Lifestyle mattered more than money, and 364 00:19:45,985 --> 00:19:48,455 what people did on the weekends mattered more than 365 00:19:48,488 --> 00:19:49,656 their jobs. 366 00:19:49,689 --> 00:19:51,891 -What I can surmise from what you're positing is like, 367 00:19:51,958 --> 00:19:54,060 Portland's almost an alternative universe. 368 00:19:54,126 --> 00:19:55,528 It's almost like cars don't exist, right? 369 00:19:55,562 --> 00:19:56,496 -Yes! 370 00:19:56,529 --> 00:19:57,464 -You can ride bikes, or double decker bikes. 371 00:19:57,497 --> 00:19:59,466 They ride unicycles, they ride the tram, 372 00:19:59,499 --> 00:20:00,467 they ride skateboards. 373 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:01,701 -Exactly! 374 00:20:01,734 --> 00:20:04,304 -'Portlandia' is almost like a documentary as far as I'm 375 00:20:04,337 --> 00:20:08,975 concerned in terms of showing how eccentric and unique 376 00:20:09,008 --> 00:20:12,479 Portland is, and how much everything's kind of a one-off. 377 00:20:12,512 --> 00:20:15,081 Will's Claymation studio's like that too. 378 00:20:15,147 --> 00:20:18,217 Nobody else is doing anything like this. 379 00:20:18,251 --> 00:20:21,321 He wanted to do his own thing, he created it, 380 00:20:21,354 --> 00:20:23,856 and he gave us all these jobs. 381 00:20:23,890 --> 00:20:27,226 The best stop-motion animators from around the world all 382 00:20:27,260 --> 00:20:30,830 gravitated to the famous Will Vinton Studio. 383 00:20:30,863 --> 00:20:32,699 -[Will VO] I'm really committed to working here, 384 00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:35,835 and there's really no reason that you have to produce a film 385 00:20:35,868 --> 00:20:39,105 in Hollywood. 386 00:20:39,406 --> 00:20:41,541 *mellow ambient music* 387 00:20:41,574 --> 00:20:44,877 -Will the entrepreneur -- Will the guy who started something 388 00:20:44,911 --> 00:20:48,781 from nothing and did it just because he wanted to -- if 389 00:20:48,848 --> 00:20:51,884 you're gonna be an entrepreneur, you're gonna start a company, 390 00:20:51,918 --> 00:20:53,853 you're gonna be the man. 391 00:20:53,886 --> 00:20:56,022 -The first time I really met Will, 392 00:20:56,055 --> 00:20:59,626 the two words that came to mind were "white heat," 393 00:20:59,692 --> 00:21:02,495 a burning ambition to make a brand, 394 00:21:02,529 --> 00:21:03,996 to make a name. 395 00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:08,935 He just wanted to conquer. 396 00:21:08,968 --> 00:21:11,804 -[Jeffrey VO] A good decade before Will got started, 397 00:21:11,838 --> 00:21:15,975 there was another eclectic long-shot small business here 398 00:21:16,008 --> 00:21:17,644 in Oregon. 399 00:21:17,677 --> 00:21:21,180 It was a guy selling shoes, and it was Phil Knight, 400 00:21:21,213 --> 00:21:22,849 and that company became Nike. 401 00:21:22,882 --> 00:21:24,116 -Oh sweat! Oh sweat! 402 00:21:24,150 --> 00:21:25,485 Oh sweat, it's Nike! 403 00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:26,853 You gotta hook me up! 404 00:21:26,886 --> 00:21:28,555 *hip hop beat 405 00:21:28,621 --> 00:21:30,790 -[Jeffrey VO] It absolutely came to dominate. 406 00:21:30,823 --> 00:21:34,494 *** 407 00:21:36,363 --> 00:21:39,466 It became this world-eating company. 408 00:21:40,367 --> 00:21:44,371 And there's an interesting parallel between Phil and Will; 409 00:21:44,404 --> 00:21:47,474 they pioneered an industry and they stuck with it, 410 00:21:47,507 --> 00:21:51,077 and against all odds they built something pretty special. 411 00:21:51,143 --> 00:21:56,148 And then they sort of came together and disasters result. 412 00:21:56,683 --> 00:21:58,385 -[woman] Mr. Knight, please raise your right hand. 413 00:21:58,385 --> 00:22:00,420 Do you solemnly swear that this testimony will be the truth, 414 00:22:00,487 --> 00:22:01,421 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 415 00:22:01,454 --> 00:22:02,455 so help you God? 416 00:22:02,489 --> 00:22:03,890 -I do. -[woman] Thank you. 417 00:22:03,923 --> 00:22:06,626 -Mr. Knight, would you explain what first interested you in 418 00:22:06,659 --> 00:22:09,429 investing in Will Vinton Studios? 419 00:22:09,462 --> 00:22:12,565 -Wil Vinton had approached me in the spring of '98 about the 420 00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:14,967 possibility of investing in Will Vinton Studios, 421 00:22:15,001 --> 00:22:17,136 and I was intrigued. 422 00:22:17,169 --> 00:22:18,838 -And what intrigued you? 423 00:22:18,905 --> 00:22:20,907 -Well, first of all, profitable. 424 00:22:20,940 --> 00:22:22,842 They had been in existence a long time, 425 00:22:22,909 --> 00:22:24,677 they had won an Academy Award, and 426 00:22:24,744 --> 00:22:28,280 they'd had considerable artistic success in the creative field, 427 00:22:28,314 --> 00:22:30,817 and I was interested in that. 428 00:22:30,850 --> 00:22:35,488 -Was there any intent to do future Will Vinton Studios 429 00:22:35,522 --> 00:22:38,925 animation outside of Portland? 430 00:22:38,958 --> 00:22:43,963 -What do future plans outside of Portland have to do with any 431 00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:46,098 subject matter of this lawsuit? 432 00:22:46,132 --> 00:22:49,135 -Well I have a theory, but I don't need to go into it. 433 00:22:49,168 --> 00:22:51,270 *tense ambient music 434 00:22:57,977 --> 00:22:59,946 -Um, how would you characterize 435 00:22:59,979 --> 00:23:03,049 your level of frustration 436 00:23:03,082 --> 00:23:04,751 over Will Vinton? 437 00:23:04,784 --> 00:23:06,719 *** 438 00:23:06,753 --> 00:23:10,557 -High. 439 00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:13,460 *news program jingle 440 00:23:13,460 --> 00:23:15,795 -[man VO] Portlanders Will Vinton and Susan Shadburne have 441 00:23:15,862 --> 00:23:19,031 made animated films Walt Disney would've envied. 442 00:23:19,065 --> 00:23:21,968 -Your working relationship, you're married but you also 443 00:23:22,034 --> 00:23:23,235 work together. 444 00:23:23,269 --> 00:23:25,472 I would think that it would be hard to separate the two. 445 00:23:25,472 --> 00:23:26,473 -[Vinton] It is. 446 00:23:26,539 --> 00:23:28,074 -And we really live two separate lives. 447 00:23:28,107 --> 00:23:30,910 When we were working really intensely on something -- I 448 00:23:30,943 --> 00:23:33,145 should point out the 'Rip Van Winkle' script got started on 449 00:23:33,212 --> 00:23:34,313 our honeymoon-- 450 00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:36,248 [laughter] 451 00:23:36,282 --> 00:23:38,618 He kept telling me that was a deadline [laughing] 452 00:23:38,651 --> 00:23:40,487 and things like that. [laughs] 453 00:23:40,553 --> 00:23:43,556 *mellow ambient music 454 00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:46,559 -Will's extraordinarily focused -- one of the most focused 455 00:23:46,593 --> 00:23:48,795 people I've ever met -- 456 00:23:50,497 --> 00:23:53,065 but if his focus shifts, 457 00:23:53,099 --> 00:23:56,636 he really is able to kind of cut the traces of what came before, 458 00:23:56,669 --> 00:23:58,304 totally cut them. 459 00:23:58,337 --> 00:24:00,640 *** 460 00:24:00,673 --> 00:24:02,509 -[Will VO] When things get kind of easy or a little 461 00:24:02,509 --> 00:24:07,213 rote, I find myself going kind of somewhere else. 462 00:24:09,582 --> 00:24:11,150 -[Susan VO] I mean, all the times I knew him, 463 00:24:11,183 --> 00:24:14,353 I don't remember us ever having to wrestle with his conscience. 464 00:24:14,386 --> 00:24:16,088 It is, "This is what's being done. 465 00:24:16,155 --> 00:24:17,824 This is what I'm doing." 466 00:24:17,857 --> 00:24:20,326 I didn't ever see him waver on that. 467 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,995 *** 468 00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:25,998 The ending of it came as a complete surprise to me. 469 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:30,269 He had a wife prior to me. 470 00:24:30,336 --> 00:24:33,105 He left her in exactly the same way. 471 00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:35,908 12 years... 472 00:24:37,209 --> 00:24:40,279 no discussions about it, 473 00:24:41,581 --> 00:24:43,883 no looking back. 474 00:24:44,917 --> 00:24:48,287 He was a mystery to himself. 475 00:24:48,354 --> 00:24:50,289 -[Michele VO] He's a very complex man. 476 00:24:50,356 --> 00:24:53,926 The place he felt most free to express himself was in his work. 477 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,929 *** 478 00:24:56,963 --> 00:24:58,765 -[Mary VO] Will on one hand showed himself to 479 00:24:58,798 --> 00:25:01,568 the world through his art. 480 00:25:02,569 --> 00:25:06,272 He had all of these characters who, of course, were expressing 481 00:25:06,305 --> 00:25:08,440 facets of himself. 482 00:25:08,474 --> 00:25:12,712 And yet he was also a very private man. 483 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,816 There's a lot of people, maybe most of the people who know Will 484 00:25:16,849 --> 00:25:20,152 who might say, "I never really quite knew him. 485 00:25:20,186 --> 00:25:24,390 I could never quite figure him out." 486 00:25:24,456 --> 00:25:28,027 He had trouble expressing emotions 487 00:25:28,060 --> 00:25:29,729 when it wasn't with clay. 488 00:25:29,796 --> 00:25:32,799 *** 489 00:25:32,832 --> 00:25:36,836 -I see Will as a character, a character with a dream, 490 00:25:36,869 --> 00:25:41,874 with a character flaw, and with a kind of a sadness. 491 00:25:46,679 --> 00:25:48,648 -[Will VO] Characters have an infinite range of 492 00:25:48,681 --> 00:25:52,518 emotions and expressions, but there aren't an infinite number 493 00:25:52,619 --> 00:25:55,655 that they use. 494 00:25:55,922 --> 00:26:00,026 A character usually stays in character. 495 00:26:01,994 --> 00:26:03,229 *chimes ascend 496 00:26:03,262 --> 00:26:04,664 -[woman] All together now! 497 00:26:04,731 --> 00:26:07,133 -Ho ho ho, hee hee hee, ha ha ha! 498 00:26:07,166 --> 00:26:10,102 -[Will VO] The pressure on this first creative phase is 499 00:26:10,136 --> 00:26:14,173 that we wanted to keep the bar extremely high, 500 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,109 and we wanted to do feature films. 501 00:26:17,143 --> 00:26:20,479 -As things began to get bigger and bigger and pretty soon he's 502 00:26:20,512 --> 00:26:22,682 having what he wants -- which he always told me was to be the 503 00:26:22,749 --> 00:26:25,985 second Walt Disney -- and it looked as if maybe that 504 00:26:26,018 --> 00:26:27,453 were happening. 505 00:26:27,486 --> 00:26:32,491 *uplifting ambient music 506 00:26:32,925 --> 00:26:34,994 -[Jerry VO] There were definitely parallels between the 507 00:26:35,027 --> 00:26:38,364 young Will Vinton Studios and Walt Disney Studios. 508 00:26:38,665 --> 00:26:42,268 Each success followed by a way to follow up on that in a 509 00:26:42,301 --> 00:26:45,504 commercial way, and then if you can do that, 510 00:26:45,537 --> 00:26:48,474 you can experiment and make 'Fantasia' or build 511 00:26:48,507 --> 00:26:49,776 a Disneyland. 512 00:26:49,809 --> 00:26:53,479 Will had it. He was actually doing it. 513 00:26:53,512 --> 00:26:54,480 He won his Oscar. 514 00:26:54,513 --> 00:26:55,882 He was making shorts. 515 00:26:55,948 --> 00:26:58,284 He was making a feature, which was 'The Adventures of 516 00:26:58,317 --> 00:27:00,219 Mark Twain.' 517 00:27:00,286 --> 00:27:04,390 -A man with a new idea is a fool... 518 00:27:04,423 --> 00:27:07,393 until the idea succeeds. 519 00:27:07,426 --> 00:27:10,062 -[Will VO] 'The Adventures of Mark Twain' was the zenith of 520 00:27:10,096 --> 00:27:12,699 Claymation because the whole kitchen sink 521 00:27:12,699 --> 00:27:15,267 was thrown in there. 522 00:27:15,301 --> 00:27:18,570 A lot of the techniques that you saw in some of the short films 523 00:27:18,604 --> 00:27:20,572 that came before it. 524 00:27:20,606 --> 00:27:23,442 -[Craig VO] Clay painting from 'The Creation...' 525 00:27:25,077 --> 00:27:28,414 metamorphosis from 'The Great Cognito...' 526 00:27:30,316 --> 00:27:33,953 special effects that we used in things like 'The Little Prince.' 527 00:27:34,821 --> 00:27:36,055 There's nothing like it. 528 00:27:36,088 --> 00:27:38,590 There's nothing even remotely like it. 529 00:27:38,825 --> 00:27:42,061 Will wanted this to feel like you were in his clay world. 530 00:27:43,095 --> 00:27:45,965 Furniture was made out of clay, the walls were clay, 531 00:27:45,998 --> 00:27:48,735 the pictures on the wall were clay. 532 00:27:48,735 --> 00:27:51,403 -It is a landmark achievement in the motion picture field, 533 00:27:51,437 --> 00:27:54,506 and that is because it is the first clay-animated feature 534 00:27:54,573 --> 00:27:57,143 movie ever made. 535 00:27:57,744 --> 00:27:59,611 -[Melissa VO] A lot was riding on 'The Adventures 536 00:27:59,645 --> 00:28:02,014 of Mark Twain.' 537 00:28:02,048 --> 00:28:06,352 It was in production over five years with a small crew toiling 538 00:28:06,385 --> 00:28:09,889 over this very tedious process of making this movie. 539 00:28:10,222 --> 00:28:12,224 -The basic philosophy has not changed. 540 00:28:12,258 --> 00:28:14,426 Vinton and his staff hope to continue to be a form of 541 00:28:14,493 --> 00:28:16,996 entertainment primarily for adults. 542 00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:19,832 You'll never see Will Vinton's name on the kind of things that 543 00:28:19,866 --> 00:28:23,335 you're seeing now on Saturday morning TV. 544 00:28:25,571 --> 00:28:28,007 -[Melissa VO] Will felt that this is a sophisticated 545 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,677 film that should appeal to adults. 546 00:28:31,778 --> 00:28:35,614 And it just didn't get marketed in that way. 547 00:28:35,681 --> 00:28:37,683 -The interesting thing is the movie, 548 00:28:37,784 --> 00:28:40,920 it's kind of a dark story, and there were warning labels on 549 00:28:40,953 --> 00:28:43,689 those cassettes that say, "This may not be suitable for your 550 00:28:43,790 --> 00:28:46,558 child," which was the kiss of death if you're trying to 551 00:28:46,592 --> 00:28:48,194 release a children's movie. 552 00:28:48,227 --> 00:28:51,397 *melancholy ambient music 553 00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:54,967 -[Melissa VO] 'Mark Twain' had a really disappointing premiere. 554 00:28:56,869 --> 00:28:58,871 People would take their children, 555 00:28:58,905 --> 00:29:01,941 or they didn't always get the next level of 556 00:29:01,974 --> 00:29:05,812 humor or sophistication. 557 00:29:05,812 --> 00:29:08,380 -[voice on speaker] Welcome to the mysterious stranger. 558 00:29:08,447 --> 00:29:11,683 [children whispering] 559 00:29:11,717 --> 00:29:13,152 -Hello. 560 00:29:13,185 --> 00:29:14,653 -Who are you? 561 00:29:14,686 --> 00:29:15,888 -Satan. 562 00:29:15,955 --> 00:29:18,124 -Uh oh. 563 00:29:18,157 --> 00:29:19,826 -[Will VO] Well, there's no question I was hoping 564 00:29:19,826 --> 00:29:22,862 'Mark Twain' would be the beginning of doing more 565 00:29:22,895 --> 00:29:24,831 feature projects. 566 00:29:24,864 --> 00:29:27,699 *** 567 00:29:27,733 --> 00:29:31,737 I think above all I was disappointed with what happens 568 00:29:31,838 --> 00:29:36,008 in the world of distribution. 569 00:29:36,042 --> 00:29:39,846 -That was a real sad thing that nobody seemed to know what to do 570 00:29:39,846 --> 00:29:42,915 with this magical stuff. 571 00:29:42,982 --> 00:29:47,019 He had a capacity to put things in a place where they wouldn't 572 00:29:47,053 --> 00:29:51,991 interfere or slow him down, but in his private place with just 573 00:29:52,024 --> 00:29:55,895 himself, he and him, it hurt him very much. 574 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,669 -I did a bit of soul searching and thought about how the 575 00:30:03,702 --> 00:30:08,574 creative process works, and I've come up with what I think is my 576 00:30:08,607 --> 00:30:11,377 most creative project to date, which I would like to introduce 577 00:30:11,410 --> 00:30:14,213 to you at this time. 578 00:30:14,546 --> 00:30:17,283 [applause] 579 00:30:17,349 --> 00:30:19,618 This is Billy. 580 00:30:19,685 --> 00:30:21,520 Say hello! [chuckles] 581 00:30:21,553 --> 00:30:24,123 Let's look at the creative process and how it works. 582 00:30:24,190 --> 00:30:26,926 [audience laughter] 583 00:30:26,959 --> 00:30:28,861 It all starts with an idea. 584 00:30:28,895 --> 00:30:31,630 Perhaps nothing more than a twinkle in your eye. 585 00:30:31,697 --> 00:30:34,200 And in time, with a little give and take, 586 00:30:34,233 --> 00:30:38,237 assuming the idea finds fertile ground, 587 00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:41,807 it may soon be fully conceived. 588 00:30:41,874 --> 00:30:43,409 But you still don't know what you've got. 589 00:30:43,442 --> 00:30:45,377 [audience laughter] 590 00:30:45,411 --> 00:30:47,446 As the concept goes into a gestation period, 591 00:30:47,479 --> 00:30:49,481 it grows and it modifies. 592 00:30:49,548 --> 00:30:52,384 Finally, the project is fully realized with a tremendous 593 00:30:52,418 --> 00:30:53,819 amount of effort. 594 00:30:53,886 --> 00:30:54,954 And is released-- [Billy coos] 595 00:30:54,987 --> 00:30:56,488 Yeah. [audience laughter] 596 00:30:56,555 --> 00:30:58,790 And is released for all to see. 597 00:30:58,824 --> 00:31:00,792 To the creators it's hard to be objective, 598 00:31:00,826 --> 00:31:04,196 and it often looks pretty bad when it first comes out. 599 00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:07,666 But at that point, one can't help but sort of feel like 600 00:31:07,699 --> 00:31:11,938 you're-- question what it is you've really done as a creator, 601 00:31:11,938 --> 00:31:16,175 and before long a strong sense of pride generally results to 602 00:31:16,208 --> 00:31:19,245 the point where you may even consider doing it again. 603 00:31:19,311 --> 00:31:22,581 [laughter] 604 00:31:22,648 --> 00:31:23,950 We have Mummy. 605 00:31:23,950 --> 00:31:26,418 -[laughs] 606 00:31:26,485 --> 00:31:29,221 -[Will] And Billy. 607 00:31:29,588 --> 00:31:31,190 -Let me stand up and show how pregnant. 608 00:31:31,223 --> 00:31:32,258 -[Will] Very pregnant. 609 00:31:32,324 --> 00:31:34,360 There it is. 610 00:31:34,393 --> 00:31:35,561 That's Jesse. 611 00:31:35,594 --> 00:31:37,029 -Yeah, this is Jesse. 612 00:31:37,063 --> 00:31:40,232 Oh my God, there they go! 613 00:31:40,266 --> 00:31:41,433 -[Jesse VO] He was always interested in looking 614 00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:44,003 for projects that we could do with him. 615 00:31:44,036 --> 00:31:45,871 Even though he wasn't the kind of person that would really say 616 00:31:45,972 --> 00:31:48,707 a lot of "I love yous" 617 00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:51,410 or really kind of show affection... 618 00:31:51,443 --> 00:31:53,545 [drumming] 619 00:31:53,579 --> 00:31:56,082 You know, he had his own way of constantly showing us that he 620 00:31:56,115 --> 00:31:57,549 loved us. 621 00:31:57,583 --> 00:32:00,386 *mellow ambient music 622 00:32:00,419 --> 00:32:02,821 The best times that we had with one another, 623 00:32:02,854 --> 00:32:05,992 we were actively trying to accomplish a goal, 624 00:32:05,992 --> 00:32:08,995 making something, creating something. 625 00:32:10,596 --> 00:32:12,531 Going to cut down a Christmas tree, 626 00:32:12,598 --> 00:32:15,334 we would literally hack down like a 20-foot tree, 627 00:32:15,367 --> 00:32:18,137 and we'd bring it home. 628 00:32:19,371 --> 00:32:22,308 Billy and I were six and eight years old and we were like up on 629 00:32:22,341 --> 00:32:25,544 the balcony with like a rope-pulley system that my dad 630 00:32:25,611 --> 00:32:28,014 had like showed us how to like rig on the top of the tree, 631 00:32:28,014 --> 00:32:30,882 and he's down below trying to like push the tree up. 632 00:32:32,018 --> 00:32:33,285 -[woman] There's Will. 633 00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:35,554 -[man] There's Will. 634 00:32:35,621 --> 00:32:37,023 -[woman] The man with the camera, 635 00:32:37,023 --> 00:32:40,359 and now we're moving in on him, because-- Billy don't pull on 636 00:32:40,392 --> 00:32:42,394 the camera! 637 00:32:42,461 --> 00:32:44,330 -[woman] Get a close-up of him so that we know that Daddy was 638 00:32:44,363 --> 00:32:45,864 here too. 639 00:32:45,897 --> 00:32:47,199 -[Jesse VO] Things were really taking off for the 640 00:32:47,233 --> 00:32:50,169 studio, and it was growing rapidly. 641 00:32:50,202 --> 00:32:53,239 He spent an enormous amount of time at the studio, 642 00:32:53,305 --> 00:32:56,675 and maybe prioritized that over family a little bit. 643 00:32:56,708 --> 00:32:59,045 I think that's what he had to do. 644 00:32:59,045 --> 00:33:02,414 *** 645 00:33:02,748 --> 00:33:05,151 -Oh, look at the... 646 00:33:05,217 --> 00:33:06,618 -[Melissa VO] After 'Mark Twain' had a really 647 00:33:06,652 --> 00:33:09,221 disappointing premiere, we were all depressed. 648 00:33:09,255 --> 00:33:10,922 Will came back, and was like, "Well, 649 00:33:10,956 --> 00:33:14,593 let's get to work," like undaunted. 650 00:33:15,294 --> 00:33:16,562 [claps] 651 00:33:16,595 --> 00:33:20,166 -"Okay, let's get rolling," and he would say that without fail. 652 00:33:20,232 --> 00:33:22,301 And so that's just the kind of guy he was -- it was like, 653 00:33:22,334 --> 00:33:25,571 [clap] "Okay, let's get rolling." 654 00:33:25,604 --> 00:33:28,640 -[Hal VO] I've never seen him exhibit frustration or anger 655 00:33:28,674 --> 00:33:31,577 or being down. 656 00:33:31,610 --> 00:33:36,248 So it is hard to sort of see him as a fully rounded human being, 657 00:33:36,282 --> 00:33:39,151 because he's always got that outward-facing, 658 00:33:39,185 --> 00:33:41,320 optimistic demeanor. 659 00:33:41,353 --> 00:33:44,090 You wonder, "What are the secret doubts?" 660 00:33:44,123 --> 00:33:48,660 *anxious ambient music 661 00:33:48,694 --> 00:33:51,997 -[Will VO] My parents were always just so supportive 662 00:33:52,098 --> 00:33:55,167 of trying things, of experimenting. 663 00:33:55,201 --> 00:33:58,137 What they would say, "Yeah okay, what's next?" 664 00:33:58,837 --> 00:34:01,273 And I'm like that myself, like, "That was cool. 665 00:34:01,307 --> 00:34:03,542 That was really fun. Okay, let's see what's next." 666 00:34:03,575 --> 00:34:06,545 [laughs] Kind of look around. 667 00:34:06,578 --> 00:34:10,216 The California Raisin Advisory Board came to us with the idea 668 00:34:10,249 --> 00:34:14,186 of personifying raisins that moved to 669 00:34:14,220 --> 00:34:16,688 "I Heard It Through the Grapevine." 670 00:34:16,722 --> 00:34:21,127 *Ooh, I heard it through the grapevine* 671 00:34:21,127 --> 00:34:25,631 *Raised in the California sunshine* 672 00:34:25,697 --> 00:34:28,700 -I was the director on the first California Raisins spot, 673 00:34:28,734 --> 00:34:32,138 and I thought, "Man, what a dorky commercial. 674 00:34:32,138 --> 00:34:34,140 Nobody's ever gonna see this commercial. 675 00:34:34,140 --> 00:34:36,442 I'm wasting my time." 676 00:34:36,475 --> 00:34:39,711 -[Will VO] A tiny, tiny little advertising campaign 677 00:34:39,745 --> 00:34:41,980 just took off. 678 00:34:42,047 --> 00:34:45,451 It went viral in an era where "viral" didn't exist yet. 679 00:34:46,585 --> 00:34:49,155 -It seems almost everyone is wild about these raisins and 680 00:34:49,155 --> 00:34:51,157 their hip sales pitch. 681 00:34:51,223 --> 00:34:54,160 -[Will VO] The fact that it's taken the nation by storm 682 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,162 is kind of quite a surprise. 683 00:34:56,228 --> 00:34:58,597 -[man VO] Raisins are more popular with youngsters than old 684 00:34:58,630 --> 00:35:00,466 favorites like Charlie Brown. 685 00:35:00,499 --> 00:35:03,001 A true advertising phenomenon. 686 00:35:03,034 --> 00:35:05,637 *groovy music 687 00:35:05,671 --> 00:35:07,506 -[man VO] America has gone raisin crazy. 688 00:35:07,539 --> 00:35:09,641 We have raisin t-shirts, raisin sweatshirts, 689 00:35:09,675 --> 00:35:13,179 raisin coffee mugs. 690 00:35:13,179 --> 00:35:16,182 -[Will VO] Claymation was on people's tongues 691 00:35:16,182 --> 00:35:19,251 in a way that it never had been before. 692 00:35:19,518 --> 00:35:21,520 I can't tell you how many times people said, 693 00:35:21,553 --> 00:35:24,690 "Wow, what's it like to be an overnight success?" 694 00:35:24,723 --> 00:35:25,524 -[woman VO] Well, we've all heard of 695 00:35:25,557 --> 00:35:27,493 the overnight sensation-- 696 00:35:27,526 --> 00:35:29,828 -And I'm going, "Yeah, after 15 years of doing this." 697 00:35:29,861 --> 00:35:30,862 You know? 698 00:35:30,896 --> 00:35:33,031 -Will Vinton is an Academy Award winner, 699 00:35:33,064 --> 00:35:35,601 but hardly anybody knew his name until he made a 700 00:35:35,667 --> 00:35:37,569 television commercial. 701 00:35:37,603 --> 00:35:40,372 -[Will VO] To me, commercials were little films, 702 00:35:40,406 --> 00:35:45,411 using characters to really connect with audiences. 703 00:35:45,544 --> 00:35:48,447 -We have a hit now, and it's opening up all these new doors 704 00:35:48,514 --> 00:35:51,783 for us, and we're a busy studio. 705 00:35:51,850 --> 00:35:53,552 [squeaky laughter] 706 00:35:53,585 --> 00:35:56,422 -[man VO] Meet the Noid... 707 00:35:56,455 --> 00:35:59,891 the star of Domino's Pizza commercials. 708 00:35:59,925 --> 00:36:03,995 -The Noid happened the same time the California Raisins happened 709 00:36:04,029 --> 00:36:05,631 and just blew up. 710 00:36:05,664 --> 00:36:07,333 They were huge. 711 00:36:07,366 --> 00:36:10,336 But we won an award for being the stupidest ad campaign. 712 00:36:10,369 --> 00:36:12,037 I don't get it. He hates pizza? 713 00:36:12,103 --> 00:36:14,873 He loves pizza? He wrecks pizza? 714 00:36:14,940 --> 00:36:16,642 So why should I get Domino's? 715 00:36:16,675 --> 00:36:18,377 [zapping] 716 00:36:18,444 --> 00:36:22,113 [grunting] 717 00:36:22,147 --> 00:36:23,715 -[man] Does it sell pizzas? -Oh, absolutely. 718 00:36:23,782 --> 00:36:24,950 Like crazy. 719 00:36:24,983 --> 00:36:27,353 -[Melissa VO] People became aware of this process of 720 00:36:27,386 --> 00:36:30,021 Claymation, and they wanted to be part of it. 721 00:36:30,055 --> 00:36:33,525 -[man VO] Nike makes aerobic shoes... 722 00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:35,461 tennis shoes... 723 00:36:35,494 --> 00:36:37,796 -[Will VO] There was a lot of capital. 724 00:36:37,829 --> 00:36:39,865 One of the accountants said, "What are you guys doing over 725 00:36:39,898 --> 00:36:42,501 there? You printing money?" 726 00:36:42,534 --> 00:36:47,506 He was so surprised at the level of profitability. 727 00:36:47,539 --> 00:36:51,510 My father finally [laughing] stopped wondering when I was 728 00:36:51,543 --> 00:36:53,712 gonna get a real job. [laughs] 729 00:36:53,745 --> 00:36:56,282 And he said that to me. 730 00:36:56,315 --> 00:36:59,651 -I'd like to thank our family and friends... 731 00:36:59,685 --> 00:37:01,853 and Will. 732 00:37:01,887 --> 00:37:05,724 -Bob Gardiner saw that Will moving forward with their idea 733 00:37:05,757 --> 00:37:08,794 and creating a company that didn't include him, 734 00:37:08,827 --> 00:37:13,064 he felt that he had been slighted or robbed of something. 735 00:37:13,098 --> 00:37:15,501 -[Susan VO] Everybody knew Bob was kind of crazy. 736 00:37:15,567 --> 00:37:19,671 Crazy Bob, funny crazy Bob, who wasn't so funny after a while. 737 00:37:19,738 --> 00:37:21,907 -[David VO] His activity would flare up whenever the 738 00:37:21,940 --> 00:37:24,075 studio was getting a lot of press. 739 00:37:24,109 --> 00:37:26,011 It seemed to agitate him. 740 00:37:26,077 --> 00:37:27,746 -"Claymation" -- you coined the phrase? 741 00:37:27,779 --> 00:37:29,748 -Yeah, right. -[Barbara] It's just clay-- 742 00:37:29,781 --> 00:37:32,117 -It comes from "clay animation." 743 00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:33,419 -[David VO] You'd come to work in the morning, 744 00:37:33,452 --> 00:37:37,489 and there'd be graffiti on the wall outside that was clearly a 745 00:37:37,523 --> 00:37:39,458 message from Bob. 746 00:37:39,491 --> 00:37:41,527 -[Susan VO] He wrote "Swill Vinton, 747 00:37:41,593 --> 00:37:44,996 Mediocre Crap" like in five-foot high letters. 748 00:37:46,865 --> 00:37:48,434 -[David VO] He would call Vinton up in the middle of 749 00:37:48,467 --> 00:37:52,338 the night, yell at him, and threaten him. 750 00:37:53,705 --> 00:37:56,342 -Hello? 751 00:37:56,475 --> 00:37:58,143 -[Melissa VO] There would be death threats-- 752 00:37:58,176 --> 00:37:59,645 -Yes, uh huh. 753 00:37:59,678 --> 00:38:03,582 -[Melissal VO] And the studio had to take those seriously. 754 00:38:03,615 --> 00:38:04,850 Will carried a gun. 755 00:38:04,883 --> 00:38:07,719 -Okay, yeah. 756 00:38:08,954 --> 00:38:12,791 -My name is Nicolle Gardiner-Sampson, 757 00:38:12,858 --> 00:38:16,528 and Bob Gardiner was my father. 758 00:38:16,562 --> 00:38:19,731 I probably won't ever meet anybody like my dad. 759 00:38:21,467 --> 00:38:24,536 If you approached him, he would often have a story to tell, 760 00:38:24,570 --> 00:38:27,038 or he'd play the piano for you. 761 00:38:27,072 --> 00:38:30,376 He would draw with you and doodle with you. 762 00:38:30,942 --> 00:38:32,811 Nothing was ever typical. 763 00:38:32,878 --> 00:38:34,780 It was magical. 764 00:38:34,813 --> 00:38:38,550 I knew that Bob and Will had a falling out since 765 00:38:38,584 --> 00:38:40,419 I was a little girl. 766 00:38:40,452 --> 00:38:44,155 I think it was always a ghost that haunted him, 767 00:38:44,222 --> 00:38:47,393 and he struggled letting go. 768 00:38:47,393 --> 00:38:52,063 *moody music 769 00:38:52,097 --> 00:38:56,502 -By the way, is Mr. Gardiner the one who is the true creator 770 00:38:56,568 --> 00:38:59,070 of Claymation? 771 00:39:00,138 --> 00:39:02,408 -Um, why would you ask that? 772 00:39:02,474 --> 00:39:04,710 -I don't want to hear, "Why would I?" 773 00:39:04,743 --> 00:39:08,914 because your complaint alleges that you are widely recognized 774 00:39:08,980 --> 00:39:12,684 as a creative genius and the developer of Claymation. 775 00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:14,720 Answer the question. 776 00:39:14,753 --> 00:39:16,888 -Mr. Gardiner, absolutely not. 777 00:39:16,922 --> 00:39:19,491 -[man] Did you develop it jointly with Mr. Gardiner? 778 00:39:19,525 --> 00:39:20,992 -Absolutely not. 779 00:39:21,026 --> 00:39:25,564 Claymation was developed, five or-- several years after I 780 00:39:25,597 --> 00:39:30,602 worked with Bob Gardiner-- coined. 781 00:39:31,202 --> 00:39:32,571 -See, that wasn't hard. 782 00:39:32,604 --> 00:39:35,741 *** 783 00:39:39,611 --> 00:39:42,848 -[David VO] Bob was an incredibly creative artist, 784 00:39:42,881 --> 00:39:46,251 somewhat mad, somewhat delusional. 785 00:39:46,284 --> 00:39:49,555 He was good with inspired ideas, but he couldn't execute on them. 786 00:39:50,355 --> 00:39:52,724 So you gotta give Will credit that probably 'Closed Mondays' 787 00:39:52,758 --> 00:39:54,059 got executed at all. 788 00:39:54,092 --> 00:39:56,194 If it was up to Bob, that film probably would never 789 00:39:56,227 --> 00:39:57,963 have been made. 790 00:39:58,029 --> 00:40:00,298 As much art as he put into it, he needed someone to guide him 791 00:40:00,365 --> 00:40:05,103 through actually finishing something. 792 00:40:05,136 --> 00:40:08,907 -Will produced it -- that's what he did -- and a lot of the stuff 793 00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:10,809 you see there is Bob. 794 00:40:10,876 --> 00:40:12,310 The stuff that people go, "Ooo-ooo!" 795 00:40:12,377 --> 00:40:14,145 -- that's Bob. 796 00:40:14,212 --> 00:40:16,782 *jaunty music 797 00:40:16,815 --> 00:40:20,719 -What was that guy thinking of? 798 00:40:20,752 --> 00:40:23,288 Puh. 799 00:40:24,723 --> 00:40:27,225 -With most things in life, there was a grain of truth to 800 00:40:27,258 --> 00:40:29,160 some of it. 801 00:40:29,227 --> 00:40:31,563 Was this just a really angry guy who was making up all these 802 00:40:31,597 --> 00:40:34,733 ideas about what had happened in that relationship, 803 00:40:34,766 --> 00:40:38,604 or was he really an aggrieved creative who felt he didn't get 804 00:40:38,637 --> 00:40:42,440 his due? 805 00:40:47,946 --> 00:40:49,581 *news jingle 806 00:40:49,615 --> 00:40:50,982 -Portland's own California Raisins are 807 00:40:51,016 --> 00:40:52,484 back in the news again. 808 00:40:52,518 --> 00:40:55,120 They have a new home video out, and to give you an idea of how 809 00:40:55,153 --> 00:40:57,322 good it's selling, it reached platinum even before it hit 810 00:40:57,355 --> 00:40:58,757 the stores. 811 00:40:58,790 --> 00:41:01,960 -One of the first productions we did as an entertainment project 812 00:41:01,993 --> 00:41:05,864 was a CBS primetime special called 'Meet the Raisins!' and 813 00:41:05,897 --> 00:41:10,235 it was done rockumentary parody of 'Meet the Beatles.' 814 00:41:11,236 --> 00:41:16,007 -The California Raisins, these four working class musicians 815 00:41:16,041 --> 00:41:19,945 have risen from garden variety band to pop phenomenon. 816 00:41:20,546 --> 00:41:24,049 But what are the roots of such genius? 817 00:41:24,082 --> 00:41:26,685 From whence doth it spring? 818 00:41:26,718 --> 00:41:29,955 -[Will VO] First time I'd gotten into primetime television. 819 00:41:30,288 --> 00:41:32,791 -It's a movie camera! 820 00:41:32,858 --> 00:41:35,026 So do something. 821 00:41:35,060 --> 00:41:36,094 [clonk] 822 00:41:36,127 --> 00:41:37,763 [growls] 823 00:41:37,796 --> 00:41:39,765 -[man VO] We bear fortunate witness to the youngsters' 824 00:41:39,798 --> 00:41:43,902 discovery of tonal resonance and harmony. 825 00:41:43,935 --> 00:41:48,106 -So far we had had anonymous raisins in all of these spots, 826 00:41:48,139 --> 00:41:50,576 and we wanted to kind of create distinctive characters 827 00:41:50,576 --> 00:41:54,079 for entertainment purposes, so we created the California Raisin 828 00:41:54,112 --> 00:41:55,213 Band with-- 829 00:41:55,246 --> 00:41:57,616 -[man VO] A.C., Beebop, Stretch, and Red. 830 00:41:57,649 --> 00:42:00,051 -That four, you know? 831 00:42:00,085 --> 00:42:04,189 -*Like a fool I went and stayed too long* 832 00:42:04,222 --> 00:42:06,892 *Now I'm wonderin' if your love's still strong* 833 00:42:06,958 --> 00:42:09,961 -*Ooh, baby, here I am 834 00:42:09,995 --> 00:42:13,231 *Signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours* 835 00:42:13,298 --> 00:42:15,300 [cheering] 836 00:42:15,333 --> 00:42:17,703 -[Will VO] The show won a Primetime Emmy, 837 00:42:17,736 --> 00:42:20,405 and that was a really, really successful project in terms of 838 00:42:20,471 --> 00:42:23,174 popularity, and in terms of moving the Raisins to a new 839 00:42:23,208 --> 00:42:26,845 level, which was just pure music entertainment. 840 00:42:26,878 --> 00:42:28,479 [gunfire] 841 00:42:28,513 --> 00:42:30,215 -Upcoming projects include a number of television 842 00:42:30,248 --> 00:42:34,152 commercials, a music video -- that for reasons of secrecy we 843 00:42:34,185 --> 00:42:37,723 can only say is for a major pop star. 844 00:42:37,756 --> 00:42:39,190 [beep] 845 00:42:39,224 --> 00:42:40,425 -[Michael Jackson on answering machine] Will, I really need you 846 00:42:40,491 --> 00:42:42,761 to call me. This is very important. 847 00:42:42,828 --> 00:42:44,429 Thank you, bye. 848 00:42:44,495 --> 00:42:45,631 [beep] 849 00:42:45,664 --> 00:42:47,065 This is Michael calling again. 850 00:42:47,098 --> 00:42:49,034 Please don't think I'm being a nuisance. 851 00:42:49,067 --> 00:42:51,737 Let's do something here, be pioneers. 852 00:42:51,770 --> 00:42:54,005 So thank you, bye. 853 00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:54,740 [hangs up] 854 00:42:54,773 --> 00:42:56,007 [beep] 855 00:42:56,041 --> 00:42:57,743 -[Scott on answering machine] Will, this is Scott Norton from 856 00:42:57,776 --> 00:43:00,111 work, and um, Michael Jackson just called. 857 00:43:00,178 --> 00:43:01,446 [beep] 858 00:43:01,512 --> 00:43:02,748 -[Michael on answering machine] Will, it's Michael calling. 859 00:43:02,781 --> 00:43:05,283 Are you there? 860 00:43:06,451 --> 00:43:08,453 Will? 861 00:43:08,987 --> 00:43:10,188 [hangs up] 862 00:43:10,255 --> 00:43:11,657 -[Webster VO] Michael was a big fan. 863 00:43:11,657 --> 00:43:14,926 He saw Will as a Disney figure, and he was a big fan 864 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:16,361 of the work. 865 00:43:16,427 --> 00:43:17,996 -[Will VO] He got around to saying how much he loved the 866 00:43:18,029 --> 00:43:20,932 California Raisin commercials, so I realized where he was 867 00:43:20,966 --> 00:43:25,003 going, and I said, "Michael, you should be a Raisin." 868 00:43:25,036 --> 00:43:29,174 -The rap raisins materializing behind me. 869 00:43:29,675 --> 00:43:33,679 I wanted to define the character and find his expression, 870 00:43:33,679 --> 00:43:38,049 which is 99 percent of it. 871 00:43:39,117 --> 00:43:42,153 The one guy has the glasses, and he has the type of attitude 872 00:43:42,187 --> 00:43:46,892 that-- he's so cool that I'm fortunate that he's here. 873 00:43:47,893 --> 00:43:50,696 And he's much too cool for, like, one of these. 874 00:43:54,700 --> 00:43:55,834 It's like, "What you lookin' at?" 875 00:43:55,867 --> 00:43:58,036 The other raisin would be this style, 876 00:43:58,069 --> 00:44:02,207 no glasses, so his eyes-- it's mostly the expression. 877 00:44:11,049 --> 00:44:15,286 *"I Heard It Through the Grapevine" by Michael Jackson* 878 00:44:24,162 --> 00:44:26,832 *I heard it through the grapevine* 879 00:44:27,332 --> 00:44:30,969 *Raised in the Califonia sunshine* 880 00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:35,073 *Heard it through the grapevine, baby* 881 00:44:35,106 --> 00:44:36,775 [fireworks explode] 882 00:44:36,808 --> 00:44:38,777 -[woman VO] There's no way these princes of produce are 883 00:44:38,810 --> 00:44:40,011 going to rot. 884 00:44:40,078 --> 00:44:42,981 They are one of the hottest headliner acts in the country. 885 00:44:43,014 --> 00:44:45,083 You may be wondering who has the rights to 886 00:44:45,116 --> 00:44:47,252 all that Raisin paraphernalia. 887 00:44:47,285 --> 00:44:50,021 Well, it's the California Raisins Advisory Board, 888 00:44:50,088 --> 00:44:52,323 not Will Vinton. 889 00:44:52,357 --> 00:44:54,926 -This is the famous blunder that he regretted, 890 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,596 where he didn't get a portion of the licensing, 891 00:44:58,629 --> 00:45:01,967 which nobody thought was gonna be a big deal, really. 892 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:03,168 -Oh, my God. 893 00:45:03,201 --> 00:45:04,402 Oh, my God. 894 00:45:04,469 --> 00:45:08,940 We're talking about $400,000,000 in products that we could've had 895 00:45:09,007 --> 00:45:10,776 a piece of. 896 00:45:10,776 --> 00:45:14,579 -Oooh, this is a harbinger of things to come. 897 00:45:14,612 --> 00:45:16,347 I can feel it. 898 00:45:16,381 --> 00:45:21,219 *wistful music 899 00:45:26,792 --> 00:45:30,028 -It was really hard after a while to pull people's teeth 900 00:45:30,061 --> 00:45:33,865 [laughs] and to work on the next Raisin show because we had 901 00:45:33,899 --> 00:45:37,435 already done that, and our culture was built around, 902 00:45:37,468 --> 00:45:38,804 you know, "Do something different." 903 00:45:38,804 --> 00:45:40,806 You know, "What else can we do?" 904 00:45:40,806 --> 00:45:42,640 *** 905 00:45:42,707 --> 00:45:45,243 -The studio was trying very hard to create some intellectual 906 00:45:45,276 --> 00:45:48,146 property of its own, and they wanted to try and create their 907 00:45:48,213 --> 00:45:50,982 own characters that they would own all the merchandising on, 908 00:45:51,049 --> 00:45:53,251 their own Mickey Mouse. 909 00:45:53,284 --> 00:45:55,420 -[Will VO] We have a character I'm very, 910 00:45:55,453 --> 00:45:56,988 very fond of. 911 00:45:57,055 --> 00:46:00,992 He's just been signed to a very, very big role in a major feature 912 00:46:01,059 --> 00:46:04,830 that we're developing right now, and he and we are very excited 913 00:46:04,863 --> 00:46:05,831 about that. 914 00:46:05,864 --> 00:46:08,066 -I'm invincible! 915 00:46:08,133 --> 00:46:13,138 I feel like I could climb every mountain! 916 00:46:15,673 --> 00:46:17,242 -[Chuck VO] The dream behind Wilshire Pig was to be 917 00:46:17,308 --> 00:46:19,878 Will's Mickey Mouse. 918 00:46:19,911 --> 00:46:24,349 Instead of Mickey Mouse ears we had rubber pig noses. 919 00:46:24,382 --> 00:46:26,017 -[Melissa VO] Will would used to say that Wilshire 920 00:46:26,051 --> 00:46:28,519 Pig was his alter ego. 921 00:46:28,553 --> 00:46:32,090 -You get offered five million bucks to do a commercial, 922 00:46:32,157 --> 00:46:33,724 and you turned it down? 923 00:46:33,758 --> 00:46:36,327 -There's the tycoon element to that character. 924 00:46:36,361 --> 00:46:39,530 He sort of like the greedy capitalist. 925 00:46:39,564 --> 00:46:42,100 That might be the way that he thought of himself as Wilshire 926 00:46:42,167 --> 00:46:45,904 Pig, probably as not as the good parts of himself but rather the 927 00:46:45,937 --> 00:46:49,440 kind of dirty things he had to do to find success at the level 928 00:46:49,507 --> 00:46:50,741 that he found it. 929 00:46:50,775 --> 00:46:52,677 [explosion] 930 00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:56,114 -He was building this idea of, "If I create these characters-- 931 00:46:56,181 --> 00:46:58,583 [rumbling] 932 00:46:58,616 --> 00:47:00,185 [shouts] 933 00:47:00,218 --> 00:47:02,520 --then after that I can make a bunch of films with those 934 00:47:02,553 --> 00:47:05,991 characters, and from that I can make an amusement park." 935 00:47:06,024 --> 00:47:09,160 -The point of amusement rides is not amusement. 936 00:47:09,194 --> 00:47:11,997 The point of amusement rides is making money! 937 00:47:12,030 --> 00:47:14,966 [gears crank] 938 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,035 [coins jingle] 939 00:47:17,102 --> 00:47:19,037 Perfect! 940 00:47:19,104 --> 00:47:20,671 [explosion] 941 00:47:20,705 --> 00:47:23,274 -[Chuck VO] They were always trying to get the thing 942 00:47:23,308 --> 00:47:26,444 that would make the amusement park. 943 00:47:28,379 --> 00:47:31,816 It's like he was looking down a checklist, 944 00:47:31,917 --> 00:47:35,120 and he was ticking off the boxes of what he needed to 945 00:47:35,153 --> 00:47:38,023 become Disney. 946 00:47:41,659 --> 00:47:43,694 -[man's voice on TV] Will Vinton -- the creator of Claymation -- 947 00:47:43,728 --> 00:47:46,932 is now creating Claymation Station, 948 00:47:46,965 --> 00:47:48,934 a year-round entertainment park. 949 00:47:48,967 --> 00:47:51,669 It would be on 15 to 20 acres behind Union Station, 950 00:47:51,702 --> 00:47:55,040 serving as a depot to transport people to real places, 951 00:47:55,073 --> 00:47:58,643 to other worlds, and to the far reaches of imagination. 952 00:47:58,843 --> 00:48:01,646 There would be rides and shops, a 3-D movie theater, 953 00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:05,083 restaurants, a large hotel, and motion picture studios. 954 00:48:05,984 --> 00:48:08,319 Can Will Vinton make it a success? 955 00:48:08,386 --> 00:48:10,956 Well, he's already made raisins dance, 956 00:48:10,989 --> 00:48:13,291 so who's to say his latest brainstorm is pushing the 957 00:48:13,324 --> 00:48:14,960 imagination too far? 958 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,427 [static] 959 00:48:16,461 --> 00:48:17,996 *moody ambient music 960 00:48:18,063 --> 00:48:19,497 -[Bill VO] Bob Gardiner would call me in the middle of 961 00:48:19,564 --> 00:48:23,268 the night from some ghost town where he was doing tours of the 962 00:48:23,301 --> 00:48:26,304 empty mining shafts. 963 00:48:26,337 --> 00:48:30,075 He'd still complain about Will Vinton and how he got 964 00:48:30,108 --> 00:48:32,243 ripped off. 965 00:48:32,743 --> 00:48:34,579 -[Nicolle VO] My dad kind of picked up this 966 00:48:34,612 --> 00:48:37,315 day-job lifestyle. 967 00:48:37,348 --> 00:48:41,186 It just kind of seemed like him letting go. 968 00:48:42,020 --> 00:48:44,990 He let go of his creativity. 969 00:48:44,990 --> 00:48:48,126 He talked a lot about Will, and that was it. 970 00:48:50,528 --> 00:48:53,098 -Good morning everybody, and welcome to Portland, 971 00:48:53,131 --> 00:48:55,133 Oregon for the Grand Floral Parade which is 972 00:48:55,166 --> 00:48:56,667 about to get underway. 973 00:48:56,701 --> 00:48:59,637 -[Bill VO] Bob Gardiner threatened to assassinate Will 974 00:48:59,670 --> 00:49:01,772 Vinton at the Rose Festival Parade. 975 00:49:01,806 --> 00:49:04,375 [gun clicks] 976 00:49:04,409 --> 00:49:07,112 *ominous strings 977 00:49:07,178 --> 00:49:09,680 Gardiner was gonna have a scope rifle up on the top of the Meier 978 00:49:09,714 --> 00:49:12,517 & Frank Building and off him. 979 00:49:12,550 --> 00:49:14,285 -[man VO] And there he is, you heard it through the 980 00:49:14,352 --> 00:49:15,686 grapevine, folks. 981 00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:19,290 That's Will Vinton, the Grand Marshal of the parade. 982 00:49:21,192 --> 00:49:24,429 -[Bill VO] Will -- to be safe -- got the FBI to patrol 983 00:49:24,462 --> 00:49:27,398 all the rooves of the buildings along the parade route. 984 00:49:27,432 --> 00:49:30,201 *** 985 00:49:30,235 --> 00:49:31,936 -[woman VO] You've certainly seen his work with the 986 00:49:32,037 --> 00:49:34,605 California Raisins. 987 00:49:36,407 --> 00:49:40,078 Looks like he brought a few of his friends with him today. 988 00:49:42,213 --> 00:49:44,649 -[Bill VO] For something to do with cartoons, 989 00:49:44,715 --> 00:49:48,786 it just seems really out of whack. 990 00:49:53,291 --> 00:49:57,062 -[Will VO] Bob and I did a wonderful thing together. 991 00:49:57,762 --> 00:50:01,466 I wish that we could've both cherished that into the sunset. 992 00:50:03,434 --> 00:50:06,404 It's hard for me to talk about it because it was such 993 00:50:06,437 --> 00:50:08,839 a sad thing. 994 00:50:08,906 --> 00:50:11,842 I knew that he was in a lot of pain. 995 00:50:11,909 --> 00:50:16,914 When I heard that he had, uh, committed suicide, um... 996 00:50:18,249 --> 00:50:20,185 I was... 997 00:50:20,251 --> 00:50:22,987 I was...shocked. 998 00:50:23,020 --> 00:50:26,591 I guess I-- you could say, but... 999 00:50:26,624 --> 00:50:30,695 somehow strangely not completely surprised. 1000 00:50:32,130 --> 00:50:36,534 I wished so much at that time that I really could've helped to 1001 00:50:36,601 --> 00:50:40,338 celebrate who he was as a person, 1002 00:50:40,371 --> 00:50:43,174 as an artist... 1003 00:50:43,208 --> 00:50:47,945 and tell him how sorry I felt about the whole thing. 1004 00:50:47,978 --> 00:50:51,516 *** 1005 00:50:51,549 --> 00:50:56,554 -I went to help pack up his stuff and being in his place -- 1006 00:50:57,622 --> 00:51:02,627 boxing everything -- was really haunting, 1007 00:51:04,529 --> 00:51:06,931 looking at all the stuff that he left out. 1008 00:51:06,964 --> 00:51:10,435 He had Marvin Gaye "Heard It Through the Grapevine" sitting 1009 00:51:10,468 --> 00:51:14,405 open on his little piano. 1010 00:51:14,439 --> 00:51:17,142 That particular song 1011 00:51:17,142 --> 00:51:21,045 was this, like, goodbye to Will. 1012 00:51:23,714 --> 00:51:27,252 My dad's work will always keep him alive. 1013 00:51:27,285 --> 00:51:30,455 I can always go back and look through his writing. 1014 00:51:31,156 --> 00:51:32,390 I can look through his drawings. 1015 00:51:32,423 --> 00:51:35,426 I can watch 'Closed Mondays.' 1016 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:40,565 The expressions through his drawings or his animation, 1017 00:51:40,598 --> 00:51:45,303 you get to see him in that, and so that's where the artist 1018 00:51:45,336 --> 00:51:48,273 is alive. 1019 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,014 [chimes] 1020 00:51:57,081 --> 00:52:00,851 -This is it...where the rubber meets the road. 1021 00:52:00,918 --> 00:52:02,187 [mechanical whirring] 1022 00:52:02,187 --> 00:52:03,688 [rattling] 1023 00:52:03,721 --> 00:52:04,855 [snorts] 1024 00:52:04,889 --> 00:52:07,858 -[David VO] Wilshire Pig and the licensable characters 1025 00:52:07,892 --> 00:52:10,495 weren't that interesting to the animators. 1026 00:52:10,528 --> 00:52:11,429 -What's that? 1027 00:52:11,496 --> 00:52:12,530 [screams] 1028 00:52:12,563 --> 00:52:15,032 [pins clatter] 1029 00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:16,667 -[David VO] More talking animals; 1030 00:52:16,701 --> 00:52:17,768 Warner Brothers and Disney already covered 1031 00:52:17,835 --> 00:52:19,069 that pretty thoroughly. 1032 00:52:19,103 --> 00:52:22,373 Is there something else we could do? 1033 00:52:22,673 --> 00:52:26,377 -[Webster VO] The ideas just weren't progressing. 1034 00:52:27,212 --> 00:52:29,914 -Test results...inconclusive. 1035 00:52:29,947 --> 00:52:31,716 [snorts] 1036 00:52:31,749 --> 00:52:33,251 Aw, dang! 1037 00:52:33,284 --> 00:52:34,919 Why does it keep happening to me? 1038 00:52:34,952 --> 00:52:37,588 This should've worked! 1039 00:52:37,622 --> 00:52:39,224 -[Webster VO] People just stopped giving a shit 1040 00:52:39,257 --> 00:52:40,858 because they were just so disenchanted with what was 1041 00:52:40,891 --> 00:52:42,927 going on. 1042 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,930 Important people started to leave the studio. 1043 00:52:46,697 --> 00:52:49,133 -It was reaching that point where you finally realized how 1044 00:52:49,234 --> 00:52:53,604 much work you were doing, and you weren't getting credit for 1045 00:52:53,638 --> 00:52:56,541 all the man hours you were putting in. 1046 00:53:02,247 --> 00:53:05,015 -[Bill VO] He felt it important --sometimes -- to 1047 00:53:05,049 --> 00:53:08,353 overlook some of the credit that should perhaps have been given 1048 00:53:08,386 --> 00:53:12,657 to many of the talented people actually making the work. 1049 00:53:14,124 --> 00:53:16,827 -He would actually say, "It's Will Vinton Studios. 1050 00:53:16,861 --> 00:53:21,866 We're all successful," but I do think he also had that personal 1051 00:53:22,733 --> 00:53:25,903 drive that he himself wanted to be seen as the 1052 00:53:25,970 --> 00:53:28,873 driving creative force. 1053 00:53:28,906 --> 00:53:30,308 [electricity sparks] 1054 00:53:30,341 --> 00:53:32,710 -[Bill VO] Certainly Walt Disney did a great job of 1055 00:53:32,743 --> 00:53:36,547 forging that visionary personalization of his own name 1056 00:53:36,581 --> 00:53:38,316 as a brand itself. 1057 00:53:38,349 --> 00:53:40,318 [claps] 1058 00:53:40,351 --> 00:53:42,887 -[in Mickey Mouse voice] Hey Pluto, here she comes! 1059 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,524 -The general perception was Walt Disney drew every comic book, 1060 00:53:46,557 --> 00:53:49,927 made every short film and feature film -- in fact the 1061 00:53:49,994 --> 00:53:53,331 studio perpetuated that myth. 1062 00:53:53,364 --> 00:53:56,066 Of course that's why the signature is the logo. 1063 00:53:56,100 --> 00:54:00,405 He was an artist and he signed his artwork. 1064 00:54:00,738 --> 00:54:04,141 But when the artist looks at Walt Disney to emulate, 1065 00:54:04,174 --> 00:54:07,845 that usually doesn't work out too well. 1066 00:54:07,912 --> 00:54:10,080 -People resented that he had these big goals, 1067 00:54:10,114 --> 00:54:12,617 and yet at the ground level where we were working on stuff, 1068 00:54:12,650 --> 00:54:15,786 we just didn't like it that much. 1069 00:54:15,820 --> 00:54:18,088 -Here's some Raisin news right off the press for you; 1070 00:54:18,122 --> 00:54:20,958 starting this fall the California Raisins will be added 1071 00:54:20,991 --> 00:54:23,193 to the Saturday morning cartoon lineup. 1072 00:54:23,328 --> 00:54:25,129 Will Vinton will produce the show. 1073 00:54:25,162 --> 00:54:28,999 It won't be done in Claymation, but cel animation. 1074 00:54:29,033 --> 00:54:31,669 -*It's the California Raisin Show!* 1075 00:54:31,702 --> 00:54:34,872 -That really was against our grain, 1076 00:54:34,939 --> 00:54:37,842 because it was Saturday morning, because it really was kind of 1077 00:54:37,875 --> 00:54:39,344 for kids. 1078 00:54:39,344 --> 00:54:42,212 -And so it was less than a success. 1079 00:54:42,347 --> 00:54:44,549 -Whenever you get really successful -- 1080 00:54:44,615 --> 00:54:46,817 we were kind of the flavor of the month -- 1081 00:54:46,851 --> 00:54:49,219 you go out of fashion. 1082 00:54:49,354 --> 00:54:52,657 *melancholy piano music 1083 00:54:52,690 --> 00:54:56,894 -Guess those wrinkled rockers were just a flash in the pan. 1084 00:54:56,961 --> 00:54:58,563 -[cartoon VO] Ouch! 1085 00:54:58,629 --> 00:54:59,697 -[Bill Fiesterman VO] They were saying, 1086 00:54:59,730 --> 00:55:01,165 "There's a lot of Claymation on TV now, 1087 00:55:01,198 --> 00:55:03,434 and advertising agencies are looking for something that looks 1088 00:55:03,468 --> 00:55:05,202 a little different." 1089 00:55:05,235 --> 00:55:08,038 *** 1090 00:55:13,411 --> 00:55:15,946 -You know, I think we ought to... 1091 00:55:15,980 --> 00:55:18,649 I don't wanna put it in the negative. 1092 00:55:18,716 --> 00:55:22,086 *** 1093 00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:23,721 -[Will VO] People had always come to us for something 1094 00:55:23,754 --> 00:55:26,657 that was really unique and creative, 1095 00:55:26,724 --> 00:55:30,961 but people were starting to say we were all about raisins. 1096 00:55:30,995 --> 00:55:34,565 Suddenly there was this kind of myopic sense about what we do as 1097 00:55:34,599 --> 00:55:38,403 filmmakers, and that was tough for me -- a double-edged sword, 1098 00:55:38,403 --> 00:55:40,805 as they say. 1099 00:55:42,072 --> 00:55:47,077 -The whole Claymation look had kind of run its course, 1100 00:55:47,177 --> 00:55:52,182 and it dropped out of style, and the studios fell on pretty 1101 00:55:52,417 --> 00:55:54,519 hard times. 1102 00:55:54,585 --> 00:55:56,987 -Despite our limitations as artists, 1103 00:55:57,021 --> 00:56:00,491 and our foibles like not wanting to lay anybody off, 1104 00:56:00,525 --> 00:56:04,662 period -- which is just totally a non-concept when it comes to 1105 00:56:04,695 --> 00:56:06,497 proper business -- you don't have the work, 1106 00:56:06,531 --> 00:56:09,667 get rid of people, you know, it's the mantra -- it wasn't 1107 00:56:09,700 --> 00:56:12,770 even considered. 1108 00:56:13,037 --> 00:56:16,441 -They were having a really hard time getting commercial work, 1109 00:56:16,507 --> 00:56:21,245 and there was very little demand for what they were doing. 1110 00:56:21,278 --> 00:56:26,283 Will saw the logic in expanding their look and style and tools. 1111 00:56:28,453 --> 00:56:31,689 -[Will VO] When I first picked up clay... 1112 00:56:31,722 --> 00:56:36,226 while the material was crude, lumpy, didn't stand up straight, 1113 00:56:36,260 --> 00:56:38,563 rather quickly, I could really see that the 1114 00:56:38,596 --> 00:56:41,031 possibilities were phenomenal. 1115 00:56:41,065 --> 00:56:42,967 I feel that we're in exactly the same place 1116 00:56:43,033 --> 00:56:45,470 with computer animation. 1117 00:56:45,470 --> 00:56:47,705 -[Chris VO] Computer animation was brand new. 1118 00:56:47,738 --> 00:56:52,042 There had yet to be a computer-animated movie and 1119 00:56:52,076 --> 00:56:55,279 computer animation was just kind of a novelty. 1120 00:56:55,312 --> 00:56:57,815 -We really did embrace the digital tools, 1121 00:56:57,882 --> 00:56:59,950 thinking this could really bring some new energy, 1122 00:56:59,984 --> 00:57:02,920 some new life, some new ways to bring to life characters. 1123 00:57:02,953 --> 00:57:05,690 *funky music 1124 00:57:05,723 --> 00:57:09,359 One of the old-time advertisers that wanted to move into the 1125 00:57:09,393 --> 00:57:12,329 digital world was M&M's. 1126 00:57:12,362 --> 00:57:15,065 It was a big campaign, and a lot of production companies 1127 00:57:15,132 --> 00:57:16,667 jumped on it. 1128 00:57:16,701 --> 00:57:19,904 So we actually had to compete, but then nobody thought of us as 1129 00:57:19,970 --> 00:57:23,407 a computer company at all, as even having the tools. 1130 00:57:23,508 --> 00:57:25,342 And the truth is [whispers] we didn't really have the tools. 1131 00:57:25,375 --> 00:57:26,877 [laughs] 1132 00:57:26,911 --> 00:57:28,312 *** 1133 00:57:28,345 --> 00:57:31,816 Our pitch to them was, "Anybody can do the 3-D animation. 1134 00:57:31,849 --> 00:57:34,519 This is what we'd like to see you doing. 1135 00:57:34,552 --> 00:57:39,557 Name them -- Red, Yellow, Green, Blue -- give them character, 1136 00:57:39,857 --> 00:57:43,728 give them attitude, give them backstories, 1137 00:57:43,761 --> 00:57:46,531 but above all just fill them full of attitude." 1138 00:57:46,564 --> 00:57:50,100 -*Yes it's true, yeah, we're totally blue* 1139 00:57:50,167 --> 00:57:51,736 -I wanna be in this commercial. 1140 00:57:51,769 --> 00:57:53,771 -You ain't getting this job, 'cause you're not blue! 1141 00:57:53,838 --> 00:57:54,939 -Great. 1142 00:57:55,005 --> 00:57:58,275 -[Will VO] It's so cool to see the exact same characters 1143 00:57:58,342 --> 00:58:03,280 that we pitched have endured to this day. 1144 00:58:03,347 --> 00:58:05,349 -[David VO] M&M's are a huge story. 1145 00:58:05,415 --> 00:58:09,086 They came because Will had successfully sold the image of 1146 00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:10,955 Will Vinton as a creative force. 1147 00:58:10,988 --> 00:58:14,024 It's a really really important pivot because that was a cash 1148 00:58:14,091 --> 00:58:18,162 cow and a proving ground for what the studio could be and 1149 00:58:18,195 --> 00:58:21,465 became all throughout the '90s. 1150 00:58:21,566 --> 00:58:24,301 -[Chris VO] Everything shifted during this time period. 1151 00:58:24,334 --> 00:58:26,604 They were sticking in photographs. 1152 00:58:26,637 --> 00:58:29,974 They were making characters out of cardboard flats. 1153 00:58:30,007 --> 00:58:33,477 They were experimenting with all these different materials to 1154 00:58:33,578 --> 00:58:37,281 make stop-motion puppets and different graphic looks. 1155 00:58:37,314 --> 00:58:39,584 -Al, I'm wood. 1156 00:58:39,584 --> 00:58:41,686 What have I got to lose? 1157 00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:43,621 [mechanical whir] 1158 00:58:43,654 --> 00:58:47,291 [saws buzz] 1159 00:58:47,324 --> 00:58:49,660 Oh, no! 1160 00:58:49,694 --> 00:58:51,829 -[Chris VO] In trying all these different looks, 1161 00:58:51,862 --> 00:58:55,499 they really revitalized interest in the studio and was pretty 1162 00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,135 successful again. 1163 00:58:58,168 --> 00:59:00,404 We kept getting more and more accounts, 1164 00:59:00,470 --> 00:59:03,641 and they started hiring people like crazy. 1165 00:59:03,708 --> 00:59:06,611 Most of the hiring that they did was for full-time, 1166 00:59:06,611 --> 00:59:10,280 full-benefit staff positions. 1167 00:59:10,314 --> 00:59:13,751 It exploded in size. 1168 00:59:15,085 --> 00:59:17,121 -[Chuck VO] Will was always supposed to just have a small 1169 00:59:17,154 --> 00:59:19,924 group of artists that love what they do, 1170 00:59:19,957 --> 00:59:21,892 and he loved what he did. 1171 00:59:21,926 --> 00:59:24,394 I don't think Will was a businessman. 1172 00:59:24,428 --> 00:59:26,731 He was just more of a creator and an artist and a guy with 1173 00:59:26,764 --> 00:59:30,635 ideas, and he had fun at it. 1174 00:59:31,301 --> 00:59:32,670 -[Will VO] As we grew the company, 1175 00:59:32,737 --> 00:59:36,106 it was becoming a little less creatively satisfying for me. 1176 00:59:36,140 --> 00:59:40,144 I was doing a lot of stuff that was not the things that excited 1177 00:59:40,177 --> 00:59:44,114 me about being an artist, about being a creator, 1178 00:59:44,148 --> 00:59:49,019 so I was looking for more creative things that I could do. 1179 00:59:50,354 --> 00:59:53,123 -We have a special guest tonight on Oregon Art Beat, 1180 00:59:53,157 --> 00:59:56,293 the man who made Claymation a household word. 1181 00:59:56,326 --> 00:59:58,095 Casey is with Will Vinton. 1182 00:59:58,128 --> 00:59:59,296 -That's right, I am. 1183 00:59:59,296 --> 01:00:01,098 Thank you very much, Mike, and thank you for joining us. 1184 01:00:01,131 --> 01:00:02,199 -Oh, a pleasure. 1185 01:00:02,266 --> 01:00:03,768 -[Casey] We've got some tape that shows a little bit of 1186 01:00:03,801 --> 01:00:04,835 the process. 1187 01:00:04,869 --> 01:00:06,470 Why don't we roll that tape so we can see it, 1188 01:00:06,503 --> 01:00:08,806 and you can kind of narrate it as we go along. 1189 01:00:08,839 --> 01:00:10,607 -[Will VO] What you see here is Thurgood 1190 01:00:10,641 --> 01:00:14,211 who is in 'The PJs' which is our television show. 1191 01:00:14,278 --> 01:00:16,313 -What happened is, I described what the guy was like, 1192 01:00:16,346 --> 01:00:19,183 what his personality was like, and Will Vinton would go, 1193 01:00:19,216 --> 01:00:21,051 and he'd make up sketches. 1194 01:00:21,118 --> 01:00:23,553 Then once I looked at him, then I'd come up with a voice that 1195 01:00:23,620 --> 01:00:26,056 looks like what he would sound like. 1196 01:00:26,123 --> 01:00:27,391 -Hello, projects! 1197 01:00:27,457 --> 01:00:29,894 [cheering] 1198 01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,330 I am the Reverend Thurgood Stubbs. 1199 01:00:33,363 --> 01:00:36,300 -I worked very closely with Eddie to do the pilot, 1200 01:00:36,333 --> 01:00:38,068 and that was fun, and that was really creative, 1201 01:00:38,135 --> 01:00:41,806 and that was me getting my feet back into it. 1202 01:00:41,839 --> 01:00:43,874 [helicopter sounds] 1203 01:00:43,908 --> 01:00:45,142 -I can't take this anymore! 1204 01:00:45,175 --> 01:00:47,211 I can't take it! 1205 01:00:47,244 --> 01:00:50,247 -But not as satisfying for for me personally as doing 1206 01:00:50,314 --> 01:00:51,749 my own thing. 1207 01:00:51,816 --> 01:00:52,917 -[Casey] What can we look forward to seeing from you in 1208 01:00:52,983 --> 01:00:54,184 the future? 1209 01:00:54,251 --> 01:00:56,353 -We have another show that'll be launching called 'Gary & Mike' 1210 01:00:56,386 --> 01:00:59,356 that's gonna run on Fox through the summer. 1211 01:00:59,389 --> 01:01:02,026 -There ain't nothing but open road from here on out. 1212 01:01:02,059 --> 01:01:03,427 [car sputters] 1213 01:01:03,493 --> 01:01:05,763 -[Will VO] We really scaled it up. 1214 01:01:05,796 --> 01:01:09,066 We did 13 half-hour shows of 'The PJs'-- 1215 01:01:09,099 --> 01:01:11,601 -Don't worry. I know exactly what I'm doing. 1216 01:01:11,635 --> 01:01:13,403 Whoops! [grunts] 1217 01:01:13,437 --> 01:01:15,472 -[Will VO] Eight of 'Gary & Mike'-- 1218 01:01:15,505 --> 01:01:16,741 -Good luck! 1219 01:01:16,741 --> 01:01:19,443 -You're the one who's gonna need it! 1220 01:01:19,476 --> 01:01:24,481 -80 or 90 major commercials, all in a year's time. 1221 01:01:24,648 --> 01:01:28,518 They also were significant revenue generators, 1222 01:01:28,585 --> 01:01:31,956 but I was definitely into a new mode. 1223 01:01:31,989 --> 01:01:36,326 I'm not the filmmaker-entrepreneur at all. 1224 01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,530 It was kind of a beast with a life of its own that didn't 1225 01:01:40,597 --> 01:01:43,533 really equal me so much anymore. 1226 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:45,202 -When you started, you were a very small shop, 1227 01:01:45,269 --> 01:01:46,771 and now -- I think you were telling me -- you have three 1228 01:01:46,804 --> 01:01:48,172 buildings in northwest Portland? 1229 01:01:48,205 --> 01:01:49,840 -[Will VO] Yeah, we have three buildings, 1230 01:01:49,874 --> 01:01:51,108 sometimes four. 1231 01:01:51,141 --> 01:01:52,877 -[Casey VO] And how much of a staff now? 1232 01:01:52,943 --> 01:01:55,813 -[Will VO] Well over 300 artists and animators and 1233 01:01:55,846 --> 01:01:57,647 staff-people. 1234 01:01:57,681 --> 01:02:00,284 -Well, we'll be seeing lots of you as the years go by. 1235 01:02:00,317 --> 01:02:02,552 Will, thank you so much for joining us on Oregon Art Beat. 1236 01:02:02,619 --> 01:02:03,888 -My pleasure. 1237 01:02:03,921 --> 01:02:05,189 *"You've Got a Friend in Me" by Randy Newman* 1238 01:02:05,222 --> 01:02:07,024 -[Charlie VO] 'Toy Story' made history last year as the 1239 01:02:07,057 --> 01:02:10,060 first computer-generated feature film. 1240 01:02:10,094 --> 01:02:13,030 Joining me now, Pixar's chairman and CEO, 1241 01:02:13,063 --> 01:02:14,799 Steve Jobs. 1242 01:02:14,865 --> 01:02:17,935 -We're about putting stories into the culture, 1243 01:02:17,968 --> 01:02:19,636 that's what we're-- We're about telling stories. 1244 01:02:19,703 --> 01:02:20,805 And you know-- 1245 01:02:20,838 --> 01:02:22,206 -I'm gonna come back and interview you in five years and 1246 01:02:22,239 --> 01:02:25,375 find out you're in some other business and you found some 1247 01:02:25,409 --> 01:02:26,610 other well to go fishing in? 1248 01:02:26,643 --> 01:02:29,313 -You know, I tend to stay where I start until somebody 1249 01:02:29,379 --> 01:02:30,480 kicks me out. 1250 01:02:30,547 --> 01:02:32,817 [laughter] 1251 01:02:32,883 --> 01:02:35,585 -[Will VO] Steve Jobs seemed to have an interest in us 1252 01:02:35,619 --> 01:02:38,155 as a television organization. 1253 01:02:38,222 --> 01:02:41,125 After quite a bit of due diligence between the companies, 1254 01:02:41,158 --> 01:02:44,829 they came back and floated the idea that Pixar would purchase 1255 01:02:44,829 --> 01:02:49,834 us and purchase all of my stock for Pixar stock. 1256 01:02:50,835 --> 01:02:53,137 I'm going, "Well, what- you know, okay, I'm sitting on 1257 01:02:53,170 --> 01:02:56,173 millions of shares of Will Vinton Studios stock and there's 1258 01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,276 this company called Pixar, so I'd be trading that for 1259 01:02:59,309 --> 01:03:02,612 millions of shares or something of this Pixar stock," 1260 01:03:02,646 --> 01:03:05,382 and basically just rejected it out of hand. 1261 01:03:05,415 --> 01:03:09,887 Well, jump forward about [laughs] 10/15 years. 1262 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:14,191 If I had taken that deal, I'd be probably arguably be one of the 1263 01:03:14,224 --> 01:03:16,660 largest, maybe the largest shareholder of Disney. 1264 01:03:16,693 --> 01:03:19,063 [laughs] 1265 01:03:20,865 --> 01:03:23,233 -[man] You've been a businessman for many years. 1266 01:03:23,267 --> 01:03:25,102 -[laughs] 1267 01:03:25,169 --> 01:03:26,536 Of sorts. 1268 01:03:26,570 --> 01:03:30,407 -Why did you step down as CEO in 1997? 1269 01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:35,112 -I really wanted to get back to doing what I had always-- what I 1270 01:03:35,179 --> 01:03:39,249 used to do, which was more development and directing and 1271 01:03:39,283 --> 01:03:42,452 focus on that, on the creative side. 1272 01:03:42,519 --> 01:03:46,690 -[Will VO] I was really eager to get back into being a director, 1273 01:03:46,723 --> 01:03:51,228 and I was kind of ready to shed responsibility. 1274 01:03:51,261 --> 01:03:54,932 I ended up deciding that I really did need to bring in a 1275 01:03:54,965 --> 01:03:59,269 CEO that could come in and handle the business side. 1276 01:04:01,738 --> 01:04:04,141 We actually came up with a guy that I thought the world of 1277 01:04:04,174 --> 01:04:05,910 named Tom Turpin. 1278 01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:08,545 -[David VO] Tom Turpin was a Gentleman's Quarterly 1279 01:04:08,612 --> 01:04:11,515 version of your ideal CEO candidate. 1280 01:04:11,548 --> 01:04:14,118 He looked good, he could say the right things, 1281 01:04:14,151 --> 01:04:19,023 he was always very warm in a Hollywood way. 1282 01:04:19,056 --> 01:04:22,927 -People were leery when Tom Turpin started because he was 1283 01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,064 just this dashing, charming, fast-talking guy. 1284 01:04:28,032 --> 01:04:30,067 And Will just loved him. 1285 01:04:30,134 --> 01:04:33,703 We were like, "The guy just says whatever you want to hear." 1286 01:04:33,737 --> 01:04:35,305 -Are you ready to make your wildest dreams come true? 1287 01:04:35,339 --> 01:04:36,806 Of course you are! 1288 01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,008 -Whoa! 1289 01:04:38,008 --> 01:04:41,946 -I actually joined April 1st, 1997 -- April Fools Day -- 1290 01:04:41,946 --> 01:04:42,947 and I dug it. 1291 01:04:42,980 --> 01:04:45,049 I just thought it was a cool place, very cool. 1292 01:04:45,082 --> 01:04:47,151 The ad division was really a cash cow, 1293 01:04:47,184 --> 01:04:48,752 and it really covered a lot of the overhead, 1294 01:04:48,818 --> 01:04:50,754 so when the TV shows came in, they started making 1295 01:04:50,820 --> 01:04:51,956 a lot of money. 1296 01:04:51,956 --> 01:04:53,958 We actually made a lot of money. 1297 01:04:53,958 --> 01:04:56,426 -[Will VO] One of the things that our CEO felt we should do 1298 01:04:56,493 --> 01:04:58,095 is raise capital. 1299 01:04:58,162 --> 01:05:00,430 Well, that's a completely different concept than what we 1300 01:05:00,497 --> 01:05:01,531 had ever had. 1301 01:05:01,598 --> 01:05:03,433 You know, what are we gonna do with this capital? 1302 01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:06,236 And of course the mantra was, "You raise capital when you 1303 01:05:06,270 --> 01:05:07,237 don't need it." 1304 01:05:07,271 --> 01:05:10,640 [laughing] Oh, okay, all right. 1305 01:05:10,674 --> 01:05:13,978 I think that sounds right. [laughs] 1306 01:05:13,978 --> 01:05:17,281 -[man] Take a look at exhibit four, please. 1307 01:05:18,582 --> 01:05:20,017 -[Tom VO] Phil, I couldn't think of a more 1308 01:05:20,084 --> 01:05:22,586 prestigious investor than that. 1309 01:05:22,619 --> 01:05:26,290 We reminded him of when he was at the beginning of his career, 1310 01:05:26,323 --> 01:05:28,993 and there was something fun in that for him. 1311 01:05:28,993 --> 01:05:32,296 Company like Nike is so big; it just turns into a monster 1312 01:05:32,329 --> 01:05:35,299 business, and your role changes, right? 1313 01:05:35,332 --> 01:05:38,835 He just remembered that kind of entrepreneurial juice, 1314 01:05:38,868 --> 01:05:42,706 and he saw it in us -- let's just do it. 1315 01:05:43,107 --> 01:05:47,511 For $5,000,000, Phil acquired 15 percent of the company. 1316 01:05:47,544 --> 01:05:50,114 -[man] I heard you got offered five million bucks to do one of 1317 01:05:50,147 --> 01:05:52,482 those tennis shoe ads, is that true? 1318 01:05:52,516 --> 01:05:55,652 -Whoa, $5,000,000? 1319 01:05:55,685 --> 01:05:58,022 -I still liked the idea of getting in the feature 1320 01:05:58,055 --> 01:05:59,789 film business. 1321 01:05:59,823 --> 01:06:01,025 -[Tom VO] To move into features, 1322 01:06:01,025 --> 01:06:03,527 you need to have a deep pocket behind you. 1323 01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:08,098 Pixar had Steve Jobs, and now Vinton has Phil Knight. 1324 01:06:08,132 --> 01:06:10,134 -[Jeffrey VO] I can't think that any other business that 1325 01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,069 he's invested in is stayed. 1326 01:06:12,102 --> 01:06:16,706 It was totally out of character for Phil to do that. 1327 01:06:16,740 --> 01:06:20,644 Knight had so much money; it was going to be a great partnership. 1328 01:06:23,447 --> 01:06:26,616 -[Will VO] Having built this company, and 25 years later I 1329 01:06:26,650 --> 01:06:30,587 actually was looking at a kind of exit strategy to slip into a 1330 01:06:30,620 --> 01:06:35,625 different role and allow me the time to do my own projects. 1331 01:06:36,226 --> 01:06:38,395 -[Tom VO] I think that Will's real dream was to be 1332 01:06:38,428 --> 01:06:40,397 making feature films. 1333 01:06:40,430 --> 01:06:42,766 [chimes] 1334 01:06:42,799 --> 01:06:46,736 -[man VO] Will Vinton Features presents 'The Frog Prince.' 1335 01:06:47,071 --> 01:06:50,907 -We've taken the timeless appeal of the Brothers Grimm story and 1336 01:06:50,940 --> 01:06:54,844 made it into this expansive, magical, 1337 01:06:54,911 --> 01:06:58,415 emotionally engaging musical comedy. 1338 01:06:58,448 --> 01:07:03,453 -He was so optimistic and excited and enthusiastic about 1339 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,090 everything that he did. 1340 01:07:06,090 --> 01:07:09,359 Not only were we gonna have 'Gary & Mike' and 'The PJs' 1341 01:07:09,393 --> 01:07:14,398 running, but we had three pilots that were in production. 1342 01:07:14,431 --> 01:07:17,334 And at the same time, it was looking like some of these 1343 01:07:17,367 --> 01:07:20,737 feature films were gonna happen; 'Corpse Bride' started 1344 01:07:20,770 --> 01:07:23,107 to happen. 1345 01:07:24,208 --> 01:07:29,179 It felt like all of Will's dreams were coming true. 1346 01:07:31,415 --> 01:07:36,420 -Mr. Knight had been a shareholder since 1998, correct? 1347 01:07:37,187 --> 01:07:38,288 -Correct. 1348 01:07:38,355 --> 01:07:40,124 -[man] And he had been very hands-off, hadn't he? 1349 01:07:40,190 --> 01:07:41,291 -Yes, that's correct. 1350 01:07:41,358 --> 01:07:44,261 -And his son had been an employee from about that same 1351 01:07:44,294 --> 01:07:46,029 point in time, correct? 1352 01:07:46,130 --> 01:07:48,565 -That was one of the things that Phil wanted as part of that 1353 01:07:48,598 --> 01:07:52,269 first investment was for his son to have employment there. 1354 01:07:52,302 --> 01:07:55,939 *moody ambient music 1355 01:07:55,972 --> 01:07:58,208 -Phil Knight just said, "I have a son who's in the 1356 01:07:58,242 --> 01:07:59,309 creative world. 1357 01:07:59,376 --> 01:08:01,711 He likes animation; he's rapping now." 1358 01:08:01,745 --> 01:08:03,213 -*Nikes on my feet, kick your seat* 1359 01:08:03,247 --> 01:08:04,348 *Through the right or the left* 1360 01:08:04,381 --> 01:08:06,350 *Imma keep it slick 1361 01:08:06,383 --> 01:08:08,785 *You thought that I was whack, money [indistinct]* 1362 01:08:08,818 --> 01:08:10,520 *Another name for Richard is Dick* 1363 01:08:10,554 --> 01:08:13,657 *So get off mine 1364 01:08:13,690 --> 01:08:15,692 -[man VO] Although he's got his own state-of-the-art recording 1365 01:08:15,725 --> 01:08:18,795 studio and indoor tennis and basketball courts, 1366 01:08:18,828 --> 01:08:21,965 all this millionaire homeboy really wants is to have his very 1367 01:08:21,998 --> 01:08:24,168 own posse. 1368 01:08:24,201 --> 01:08:26,970 I mean what's your response to the kind of support or lack of 1369 01:08:27,003 --> 01:08:28,672 support you've had from Portland? 1370 01:08:28,705 --> 01:08:30,374 -A lot of people have a problem with me just because 1371 01:08:30,407 --> 01:08:32,242 they think I'm tryin' to front or tryin' to fake or tryin' to 1372 01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:33,510 be Black or whatever. 1373 01:08:33,543 --> 01:08:35,078 Think I'm tryin' to be something I'm not. 1374 01:08:35,179 --> 01:08:36,713 -[man] So you're kind of like a homeboy without a posse 1375 01:08:36,746 --> 01:08:38,182 in a way. 1376 01:08:38,215 --> 01:08:39,649 -Yeah pretty much. 1377 01:08:39,683 --> 01:08:43,753 -Any young person, especially any young son of a really 1378 01:08:43,820 --> 01:08:48,525 successful wealthy person, it's a struggle to find an identity, 1379 01:08:48,558 --> 01:08:52,762 and Will hasn't wished to be a great rapper. 1380 01:08:52,829 --> 01:08:56,400 But he found his niche and he went to work for the company 1381 01:08:56,433 --> 01:08:58,235 that his dad's invested in. 1382 01:08:58,268 --> 01:08:59,669 [record scratches] 1383 01:08:59,703 --> 01:09:01,338 -[Tom VO] He started like everybody started. 1384 01:09:01,371 --> 01:09:03,673 You don't need to know anything; come and sweep the floors, 1385 01:09:03,707 --> 01:09:05,242 see if you like it. 1386 01:09:05,275 --> 01:09:08,278 Will and I thought the best way to support Travis is not to tell 1387 01:09:08,312 --> 01:09:10,647 anybody that Phil Knight's his dad. 1388 01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,517 I don't think anybody knew for three years. 1389 01:09:13,583 --> 01:09:15,352 -To Travis's credit, he seemed to really, 1390 01:09:15,419 --> 01:09:18,955 really love the animation and took to it right away. 1391 01:09:18,988 --> 01:09:22,759 -[man] What are your goals or plans as far as Travis's 1392 01:09:22,792 --> 01:09:24,428 involvement in the company? 1393 01:09:24,461 --> 01:09:25,929 -Well they're not my plans; they're his plans, 1394 01:09:25,962 --> 01:09:30,634 that essentially his plan is to be an animator. 1395 01:09:30,667 --> 01:09:32,469 That's what he loves doing. 1396 01:09:32,502 --> 01:09:35,805 He doesn't have management ambition at the present time. 1397 01:09:35,839 --> 01:09:37,974 He doesn't even want to be a director at the present time. 1398 01:09:38,007 --> 01:09:40,644 He wants to be an animator, which he's very good at. 1399 01:09:40,677 --> 01:09:44,681 *moody ambient music 1400 01:09:44,714 --> 01:09:47,150 -[Chris VO] Will's enthusiasm was the company's 1401 01:09:47,251 --> 01:09:50,287 greatest asset and probably the greatest danger. 1402 01:09:52,256 --> 01:09:56,826 Both Tom Turpin and Will Vinton were just raving and so excited 1403 01:09:56,860 --> 01:09:58,662 about what was happening. 1404 01:09:58,695 --> 01:10:01,064 And there were all these dreams and goals, 1405 01:10:01,130 --> 01:10:03,500 but they never seemed to have a plan B. 1406 01:10:03,533 --> 01:10:05,669 You know, what are you gonna do if it doesn't happen? 1407 01:10:05,702 --> 01:10:07,304 He's like, "It'll happen." 1408 01:10:07,337 --> 01:10:12,041 -When Tom Turpin came in, it became a very corporate place. 1409 01:10:12,075 --> 01:10:15,479 The whole structure -- the feeling -- was different. 1410 01:10:15,512 --> 01:10:18,315 I would say it was a completely different company. 1411 01:10:18,348 --> 01:10:23,019 -The "MBA" approach to CEO is as all-powerful management, 1412 01:10:23,052 --> 01:10:25,221 we know best. 1413 01:10:25,255 --> 01:10:30,193 -[man] Why was Mr. Turpin's contract not renewed? 1414 01:10:30,226 --> 01:10:34,998 -Primarily because of his performance. 1415 01:10:35,031 --> 01:10:38,602 As Tom's policies began to take effect, 1416 01:10:38,668 --> 01:10:41,505 we started losing money and started spending an awful lot 1417 01:10:41,538 --> 01:10:43,106 of money. 1418 01:10:43,172 --> 01:10:45,709 -[David VO] Tom Turpin wasn't making great decisions. 1419 01:10:45,742 --> 01:10:48,845 A lot of money was being thrown in a lot of stupid places. 1420 01:10:48,878 --> 01:10:51,948 There's the legend of the million dollar escalator. 1421 01:10:52,015 --> 01:10:54,684 They had rented two levels of an office in an LA to look 1422 01:10:54,718 --> 01:10:58,254 impressive as they were seducing and wooing studios. 1423 01:10:58,288 --> 01:11:01,691 Tom had the great idea to put in an escalator between the two 1424 01:11:01,725 --> 01:11:04,060 floors because it would be a dramatic entrance, 1425 01:11:04,093 --> 01:11:07,364 sort of like going up the escalator to creative heaven at 1426 01:11:07,431 --> 01:11:10,767 Will Vinton's Hollywood swanky pad. 1427 01:11:11,801 --> 01:11:14,938 -[man] When was 'The PJs' cancelled? 1428 01:11:14,971 --> 01:11:16,806 -It was the early part of 2001. 1429 01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,042 -What was the name of the other television series? 1430 01:11:19,108 --> 01:11:20,344 -'Gary & Mike.' 1431 01:11:20,344 --> 01:11:23,547 -And when did it cease being on TV? 1432 01:11:23,613 --> 01:11:26,350 -I believe it was right around the same time. 1433 01:11:26,350 --> 01:11:28,184 -[Tom VO] TV shows get cancelled. 1434 01:11:28,217 --> 01:11:31,521 These TV shows were like two-thirds of our revenue -- 1435 01:11:31,555 --> 01:11:34,358 $10,000,000-a-year projects -- and then if they go away it's 1436 01:11:34,358 --> 01:11:37,361 like, "Boom, $10,000,000 is gone." 1437 01:11:37,361 --> 01:11:40,964 -The pilots -- one by one -- don't get picked up, 1438 01:11:40,997 --> 01:11:43,867 and then the feature films they've been talking about, 1439 01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:47,003 none of those come to fruition. 1440 01:11:47,036 --> 01:11:49,406 And then everything started to come apart. 1441 01:11:49,473 --> 01:11:53,176 -How would you describe the financial condition of Will 1442 01:11:53,209 --> 01:11:58,047 Vinton Studios during the spring of 2002? 1443 01:11:58,081 --> 01:12:01,651 -It was [clears throat] struggling, not good. 1444 01:12:01,685 --> 01:12:03,853 -[Melissa VO] We have to support all these people, 1445 01:12:03,887 --> 01:12:07,090 and suddenly your money-making machine stops, 1446 01:12:07,123 --> 01:12:08,492 but you're still spending money, 1447 01:12:08,558 --> 01:12:11,160 you're literally bleeding money. 1448 01:12:11,227 --> 01:12:12,762 -If it had been Hollywood, it would have been a totally 1449 01:12:12,796 --> 01:12:15,565 different deal, because all of these guys would have been on 1450 01:12:15,599 --> 01:12:18,435 contract -- they would have been temporary workers -- and the 1451 01:12:18,468 --> 01:12:21,838 minute the work went away, they would be gone. 1452 01:12:21,905 --> 01:12:26,910 -Was it in that context that the company approached Phil Knight 1453 01:12:27,243 --> 01:12:31,314 about a possible additional investment? 1454 01:12:31,415 --> 01:12:33,116 -Yes. 1455 01:12:33,149 --> 01:12:36,252 -He had an army of really smart businesspeople putting together 1456 01:12:36,285 --> 01:12:38,622 the contracts to protect his investment. 1457 01:12:38,655 --> 01:12:40,524 There were stacks like this of contracts, 1458 01:12:40,590 --> 01:12:42,125 you know, that I didn't even read, 1459 01:12:42,158 --> 01:12:43,960 you know, when we probably signed up the thing. 1460 01:12:43,993 --> 01:12:46,095 -When you want a loan, there's only one person you need to 1461 01:12:46,129 --> 01:12:48,264 see-- [quirky sound effect] 1462 01:12:48,297 --> 01:12:49,666 The Brains. 1463 01:12:49,699 --> 01:12:51,801 -It was not an investment I wanted to make. 1464 01:12:51,835 --> 01:12:54,003 It was not a good economic investment, 1465 01:12:54,037 --> 01:12:55,439 in my view. 1466 01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,141 Will Vinton seemed to me to be trying to commit suicide for 1467 01:12:58,174 --> 01:12:59,809 the company. 1468 01:12:59,843 --> 01:13:03,146 -He thought that Phil Knight would be a benign benefactor who 1469 01:13:03,179 --> 01:13:05,682 knew the shoe business. [laughs] 1470 01:13:05,715 --> 01:13:08,184 I remember Will saying to me, "There's no business like 1471 01:13:08,217 --> 01:13:09,619 shoe business." 1472 01:13:09,686 --> 01:13:11,521 *** 1473 01:13:11,555 --> 01:13:15,058 -I was aware of the fact that if we had a downturn, 1474 01:13:15,091 --> 01:13:18,061 that he would be able to take certain kind of control. 1475 01:13:18,094 --> 01:13:20,597 But we'd been profitable 23 years out of 25, 1476 01:13:20,630 --> 01:13:23,366 so what was I worried about? 1477 01:13:23,467 --> 01:13:28,271 -Do you remember him telling you that if he was to make an 1478 01:13:28,304 --> 01:13:33,309 additional investment, that he would drive a very hard bargain? 1479 01:13:33,877 --> 01:13:35,244 -[Will] Yes. 1480 01:13:35,278 --> 01:13:38,114 -Do you think Mr. Knight drove a hard bargain? 1481 01:13:38,147 --> 01:13:39,816 -Sure, absolutely. 1482 01:13:39,883 --> 01:13:43,386 -He was driving a very hard bargain, correct? 1483 01:13:43,487 --> 01:13:44,654 -[Will] That's correct. 1484 01:13:44,721 --> 01:13:47,724 Could I get a little more water, or-- could I? 1485 01:13:47,757 --> 01:13:50,494 -[man VO] Phil Knight versus Will Vinton was sort of like the 1486 01:13:50,494 --> 01:13:52,796 great white shark versus a guppy. 1487 01:13:52,829 --> 01:13:55,832 [water bubbles] 1488 01:13:55,899 --> 01:13:57,501 -[Melissa VO] Will must've been somewhat 1489 01:13:57,567 --> 01:14:01,070 blindsided, or maybe didn't understand that Phil Knight 1490 01:14:01,104 --> 01:14:03,406 would play hardball with him. 1491 01:14:03,507 --> 01:14:08,512 -Were you aware at the time you signed the employment agreement 1492 01:14:09,546 --> 01:14:14,551 that it authorized your termination without cause? 1493 01:14:14,718 --> 01:14:18,087 *** 1494 01:14:18,154 --> 01:14:19,823 -Sure. 1495 01:14:19,856 --> 01:14:24,861 -Did you have an understanding what "without cause" meant? 1496 01:14:26,563 --> 01:14:29,733 -Um, a basic understanding, I guess. 1497 01:14:29,766 --> 01:14:33,436 -Did you understand that it meant any reason or no reason 1498 01:14:33,537 --> 01:14:36,439 at all? 1499 01:14:36,540 --> 01:14:38,608 -[laughs] 1500 01:14:40,443 --> 01:14:42,011 -[Will VO] Now we're into some really heavy-duty 1501 01:14:42,045 --> 01:14:43,446 business stuff. 1502 01:14:43,547 --> 01:14:47,083 The company's losing money, and we had a lot of commitments. 1503 01:14:47,116 --> 01:14:50,887 -[Tom VO] They were hemorrhaging money like crazy. 1504 01:14:51,454 --> 01:14:55,892 -In business, the best deals are kind of win-win deals. 1505 01:14:55,925 --> 01:14:58,562 That's not the way they liked to play. 1506 01:14:58,595 --> 01:15:01,765 If somebody's winning, that means you're losing. 1507 01:15:01,798 --> 01:15:05,669 -[Jeffrey VO] Phil Knight slowly started taking possession. 1508 01:15:05,702 --> 01:15:10,707 He acquired a lot of it without Will knowing about it. 1509 01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:15,378 Phil Knight soon had a majority of the stock. 1510 01:15:17,213 --> 01:15:19,716 -[man VO] Why were you interested of taking voting 1511 01:15:19,783 --> 01:15:21,851 control of the company? 1512 01:15:21,885 --> 01:15:24,487 -I had to get something for my investment. 1513 01:15:24,588 --> 01:15:26,690 If it had just been the economics of the situation, 1514 01:15:26,723 --> 01:15:28,692 I would never have done it. 1515 01:15:28,725 --> 01:15:30,994 But I had a son that worked there that loved the company, 1516 01:15:31,027 --> 01:15:33,462 that loved his job, loved the people he worked with, 1517 01:15:33,496 --> 01:15:36,465 had a chance to work with Tim Burton -- who's probably the 1518 01:15:36,499 --> 01:15:39,368 ultimate in terms of animation, creative, 1519 01:15:39,402 --> 01:15:43,840 respect, and talent -- and I concluded that I would try and 1520 01:15:43,873 --> 01:15:46,876 keep the company alive. 1521 01:15:47,043 --> 01:15:51,047 Why on earth did you not just say thank you? 1522 01:15:55,752 --> 01:15:58,487 -[man] At this point in time, had you resigned yourself to the 1523 01:15:58,521 --> 01:16:03,326 fact that your days were numbered at Will Vinton Studios? 1524 01:16:03,359 --> 01:16:07,063 -I really couldn't believe that would be an outcome of 1525 01:16:07,096 --> 01:16:08,965 this business. 1526 01:16:08,998 --> 01:16:12,802 Nobody in their right mind would lay off the founder of the 1527 01:16:12,836 --> 01:16:17,841 company and the rainmaker for most of the business, 1528 01:16:17,907 --> 01:16:22,912 except somebody who had other motives and some deep pocket to 1529 01:16:23,079 --> 01:16:26,249 back it up and go somewhere else with it. 1530 01:16:26,983 --> 01:16:31,955 It was clear that Phil had made up his mind that he was going to 1531 01:16:31,988 --> 01:16:33,657 take that company. 1532 01:16:33,657 --> 01:16:35,358 [clamoring] 1533 01:16:35,424 --> 01:16:36,793 -[disembodied voice] Fools! 1534 01:16:36,826 --> 01:16:40,664 [people praying] 1535 01:16:40,664 --> 01:16:44,367 -[lman] Were you terminated from your employment at Will 1536 01:16:44,433 --> 01:16:45,835 Vinton Studios? 1537 01:16:45,869 --> 01:16:49,505 -[sighs] Yes, I was. 1538 01:16:53,309 --> 01:16:58,314 -What is the factual basis for your assertion that Phil Knight 1539 01:16:58,682 --> 01:17:03,519 wanted to take control of this company to turn the company over 1540 01:17:03,552 --> 01:17:05,554 to Travis Knight? 1541 01:17:05,588 --> 01:17:10,593 -Well, the fact that Phil requested Travis's 1542 01:17:10,860 --> 01:17:12,929 employment way back. 1543 01:17:12,962 --> 01:17:17,266 The fact that Travis stayed a part of the organization, 1544 01:17:17,300 --> 01:17:22,405 you know, the Chilly Tee fiasco happened. 1545 01:17:22,471 --> 01:17:25,942 Which I suspect that this was a little more compatible way to 1546 01:17:25,975 --> 01:17:29,078 use money to get into the business. 1547 01:17:29,112 --> 01:17:31,580 Heck, it's hard to imagine any other motivation, 1548 01:17:31,614 --> 01:17:34,383 to be frank. 1549 01:17:34,583 --> 01:17:37,153 -[Jeffrey VO] There are these issues of nepotism. 1550 01:17:37,220 --> 01:17:40,223 There are these issues of, "Did Phil Knight take advantage 1551 01:17:40,256 --> 01:17:42,091 of Will?" 1552 01:17:42,125 --> 01:17:43,927 *dark string music 1553 01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:47,563 This collision of Phil Knight and Will Vinton -- creativity 1554 01:17:47,596 --> 01:17:50,734 versus commerce -- they were at odds, 1555 01:17:50,734 --> 01:17:53,402 and... 1556 01:17:53,436 --> 01:17:57,841 Will came out the loser of that battle. 1557 01:17:57,907 --> 01:18:01,978 -[man] You're aware that you're entitled to a termination 1558 01:18:02,011 --> 01:18:03,780 payment, correct? 1559 01:18:03,813 --> 01:18:04,981 -Yes. 1560 01:18:05,014 --> 01:18:07,050 -You got the $50,000, correct? 1561 01:18:07,083 --> 01:18:08,084 -[Will] That's correct. 1562 01:18:08,151 --> 01:18:10,586 -You never got the $150,000, isn't that right? 1563 01:18:10,653 --> 01:18:11,888 -[Will] That's correct. 1564 01:18:11,955 --> 01:18:15,424 -And that's because one of those conditions was that the 'Corpse 1565 01:18:15,491 --> 01:18:19,195 Bride' contract be signed, correct? 1566 01:18:19,228 --> 01:18:20,997 -[laughs] Yes. 1567 01:18:21,030 --> 01:18:24,768 -Was it only coincidental that the 'Corpse Bride' contract was 1568 01:18:24,768 --> 01:18:27,904 signed the day after Mr. Vinton's was terminated? 1569 01:18:27,937 --> 01:18:29,939 -Yes. 1570 01:18:30,006 --> 01:18:34,177 -[Jeffrey VO] He walked away with $50,000 for a lifetime 1571 01:18:34,210 --> 01:18:37,513 of artistic and creative struggle. 1572 01:18:37,546 --> 01:18:39,949 That's ridiculous. 1573 01:18:40,016 --> 01:18:42,786 -[Michele VO] There was no need to do that mean stuff. 1574 01:18:42,786 --> 01:18:47,523 They took Claymation, the name-- they took everything. 1575 01:18:47,556 --> 01:18:49,793 They didn't need to do that. 1576 01:18:49,793 --> 01:18:53,062 I think that's really "poor paper," 1577 01:18:53,096 --> 01:18:55,598 as my grandma would say. 1578 01:18:55,631 --> 01:18:59,302 -Are you happier today that you are no longer employed by 1579 01:18:59,368 --> 01:19:00,970 that company? 1580 01:19:01,037 --> 01:19:05,308 -I absolutely did not want to leave that company. 1581 01:19:05,341 --> 01:19:08,812 -And you have told the public or people that you are happier 1582 01:19:08,812 --> 01:19:11,714 today that you're no longer employed by the company. 1583 01:19:11,815 --> 01:19:16,152 -How could I be happy about having left the company that I 1584 01:19:16,185 --> 01:19:21,190 built, that I am so close to? 1585 01:19:21,724 --> 01:19:26,662 It was like a family, and I had my entire net worth wrapped up 1586 01:19:26,695 --> 01:19:28,497 in that company. 1587 01:19:28,531 --> 01:19:31,500 I... 1588 01:19:31,534 --> 01:19:34,470 My... 1589 01:19:42,045 --> 01:19:43,913 Yeah. 1590 01:19:43,980 --> 01:19:45,314 -[man] That's all I have for today! 1591 01:19:45,348 --> 01:19:47,183 -[laughs] 1592 01:19:47,216 --> 01:19:52,155 *"RIP Coyote Condo #5" by Grandaddy* 1593 01:20:17,513 --> 01:20:20,216 -He just didn't know what was happening, 1594 01:20:20,249 --> 01:20:22,385 and his studio was just gone. 1595 01:20:22,418 --> 01:20:26,689 *** 1596 01:20:35,198 --> 01:20:36,599 -[Melissa VO] The next thing I know, 1597 01:20:36,632 --> 01:20:39,368 Vinton Studios belongs to Travis Knight, 1598 01:20:39,402 --> 01:20:43,139 and that between Travis and his father Phil, 1599 01:20:43,206 --> 01:20:44,473 it's Laika. 1600 01:20:44,540 --> 01:20:46,209 -[reporter VO] It's the little studio that could -- Laika -- 1601 01:20:46,242 --> 01:20:47,944 the CEO of the company is Travis Knight. 1602 01:20:47,977 --> 01:20:50,446 He joins us now from Portland, Oregon. 1603 01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:51,747 -Something just evolved. 1604 01:20:51,780 --> 01:20:53,816 It was an opportunity that came up that I-- you know, 1605 01:20:53,883 --> 01:20:55,151 who would think you could actually make a living 1606 01:20:55,218 --> 01:20:56,252 doing this? 1607 01:20:56,319 --> 01:20:58,587 It does not seem like it's a plausible life plan, 1608 01:20:58,621 --> 01:21:00,123 but it's something I always loved. 1609 01:21:00,156 --> 01:21:01,891 And when I had the-- when the opportunity was presented to me, 1610 01:21:01,925 --> 01:21:05,494 I took it-- I took, you know, grabbed it and ran with it. 1611 01:21:05,528 --> 01:21:06,495 -[reporter] So was Laika the opportunity, 1612 01:21:06,529 --> 01:21:07,931 or was there another thing before that? 1613 01:21:07,964 --> 01:21:11,534 -No, I was-- I worked at another animation house before then. 1614 01:21:11,567 --> 01:21:16,405 -Travis -- by all accounts -- is a talented guy and transcended 1615 01:21:16,472 --> 01:21:20,343 any sort of talk that this was all about finding sonny 1616 01:21:20,376 --> 01:21:22,345 boy a job. 1617 01:21:22,378 --> 01:21:25,514 -[Melissa VO] It's just sad that Will was able to take 1618 01:21:25,548 --> 01:21:30,153 his dream to a certain point and was not able to go to that 1619 01:21:30,186 --> 01:21:33,056 next level. 1620 01:21:33,089 --> 01:21:35,558 Somebody else took it there. 1621 01:21:35,591 --> 01:21:37,593 -[Tom VO] For Will to build it up to this point where 1622 01:21:37,660 --> 01:21:39,695 it got as big as it was ever gonna get, 1623 01:21:39,728 --> 01:21:43,032 and then ka-blooey, then lose the thing. 1624 01:21:43,066 --> 01:21:46,435 How could he build all this up and then it gets taken away? 1625 01:21:46,502 --> 01:21:48,404 -[Chuck VO] It goes back to the Disney thing. 1626 01:21:48,437 --> 01:21:51,574 It's great that he had that dream, 1627 01:21:51,607 --> 01:21:53,709 but he couldn't do it. 1628 01:21:53,742 --> 01:21:58,547 It's sort of this Disney ghost that haunted him. 1629 01:21:58,581 --> 01:22:02,451 -I was all broken up after he got let go, 1630 01:22:02,518 --> 01:22:07,123 and I went to see him at a little farewell party. 1631 01:22:07,156 --> 01:22:10,193 He said, "I just feel relief." 1632 01:22:10,259 --> 01:22:13,429 He said, "I've been so worried about how I'm gonna pay the 1633 01:22:13,462 --> 01:22:18,167 bills, how I'm gonna keep these people employed." 1634 01:22:18,201 --> 01:22:20,169 -[Craig VO] We hopped in his motorboat and zoomed into 1635 01:22:20,203 --> 01:22:22,771 Portland up the Willamette from his house. 1636 01:22:22,805 --> 01:22:24,273 I'm like, "Dude, you're cut." 1637 01:22:24,307 --> 01:22:26,442 And he's just like, [motorboat sound] in his motorboat, 1638 01:22:26,475 --> 01:22:30,013 and I'm like, "Man, clearly this guy-- the worst things can 1639 01:22:30,013 --> 01:22:33,382 happen to this guy and he's gonna bounce back." 1640 01:22:33,449 --> 01:22:35,051 -[Mary VO] He was never vengeful. 1641 01:22:35,118 --> 01:22:37,186 He was certainly never self-pitying. 1642 01:22:37,220 --> 01:22:41,890 And I remember him taking a fair amount of responsibility. 1643 01:22:42,025 --> 01:22:46,529 He made mistakes; yeah, he made some bad mistakes. 1644 01:22:46,562 --> 01:22:51,367 But the beauty is, when men get older and they've lost lovers, 1645 01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:55,038 friends, businesses, they get humble, 1646 01:22:55,038 --> 01:22:58,407 and then the best of them comes out, 1647 01:22:58,474 --> 01:23:01,410 and the best of what it means to be a father. 1648 01:23:01,477 --> 01:23:03,379 -[Jesse VO] I did get to see him a lot more. 1649 01:23:03,412 --> 01:23:06,782 There was a transformation emotionally in him. 1650 01:23:06,815 --> 01:23:09,052 He knew better than ever that family was 1651 01:23:09,085 --> 01:23:10,753 the most important thing. 1652 01:23:10,786 --> 01:23:14,590 *** 1653 01:23:21,130 --> 01:23:23,499 -[nurse] Okay, so spell your last name for me. 1654 01:23:23,566 --> 01:23:24,900 -V-I-N-T-O-N. 1655 01:23:24,933 --> 01:23:26,135 -[nurse] Spell your first name. 1656 01:23:26,169 --> 01:23:28,837 -[laughing] Seeing if I can spell, or what? 1657 01:23:28,904 --> 01:23:32,975 -I gotta do it for the bracelet. -W-I-L-L-I-A-M. 1658 01:23:33,076 --> 01:23:38,081 Actually it bothers me to see needles on somebody else, 1659 01:23:38,347 --> 01:23:39,748 or even my dog. 1660 01:23:39,782 --> 01:23:42,118 God, I about passed out one time when I took my dog 1661 01:23:42,151 --> 01:23:43,586 in for something. 1662 01:23:43,619 --> 01:23:44,687 [both laugh] 1663 01:23:44,753 --> 01:23:46,489 -I was gonna say, this has never bothered you. 1664 01:23:46,522 --> 01:23:47,990 -[nurse VO] How are you feeling today? 1665 01:23:48,091 --> 01:23:49,825 -[Will] Kinda sluggin' around a little bit. 1666 01:23:49,858 --> 01:23:51,127 -[nurse] You have a transfusion today, right? 1667 01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:53,462 -[Will] Uh, tomorrow. 1668 01:23:53,496 --> 01:23:55,698 -[nurse] Okay, any pain today? 1669 01:23:55,764 --> 01:23:56,932 -[Will] A little in the back. 1670 01:23:56,965 --> 01:23:58,934 -[nurse] Any change in medications since we saw 1671 01:23:58,967 --> 01:24:00,969 you last? 1672 01:24:01,003 --> 01:24:03,372 -Maybe dropped the-- I'm a little confused; 1673 01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,008 I've got a lot of doctors. 1674 01:24:06,109 --> 01:24:07,276 -[nurse] Pointer... 1675 01:24:07,343 --> 01:24:08,511 So yeah, you won't be as short 1676 01:24:08,544 --> 01:24:10,779 of breath after that transfusion. 1677 01:24:10,846 --> 01:24:12,115 Have you had a transfusion before? 1678 01:24:12,115 --> 01:24:14,783 -Yeah, just-- yeah. 1679 01:24:14,850 --> 01:24:17,686 Not that long ago. 1680 01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,856 -You're-- hang on, you are a pioneer, 1681 01:24:20,889 --> 01:24:23,759 and I'm excited to say that we're giving you our lifetime 1682 01:24:23,792 --> 01:24:25,128 achievement award. 1683 01:24:25,194 --> 01:24:27,430 [applause] 1684 01:24:27,463 --> 01:24:28,531 -[Will] Thank you everybody. 1685 01:24:28,564 --> 01:24:32,535 [applause] 1686 01:24:33,202 --> 01:24:36,305 -I think most of you know, Will Vinton Studios was acquired by 1687 01:24:36,372 --> 01:24:39,775 Phil Knight, and subsequently 1688 01:24:39,808 --> 01:24:42,645 the name was changed to Laika. 1689 01:24:42,711 --> 01:24:46,149 There are those out there who think that I should not be very 1690 01:24:46,149 --> 01:24:47,750 comfortable with that. 1691 01:24:47,783 --> 01:24:50,419 [laughing] So I'm gonna set the record straight, 1692 01:24:50,453 --> 01:24:51,754 um, right here. 1693 01:24:51,787 --> 01:24:56,792 The truth is -- you know -- I couldn't be more pleased that 1694 01:24:56,925 --> 01:25:00,163 under such strong financial leadership, 1695 01:25:00,229 --> 01:25:03,332 that Laika has been able to continue to grow and really 1696 01:25:03,399 --> 01:25:06,202 expand on the world of stop-motion. 1697 01:25:06,235 --> 01:25:08,171 -Need a-- need the cigar. 1698 01:25:08,171 --> 01:25:11,240 -[Will VO] For me, all of this activity, I feel like a 1699 01:25:11,307 --> 01:25:16,078 proud father, or bastard father in this filmmaker scene. 1700 01:25:16,679 --> 01:25:18,013 -Michele! 1701 01:25:18,046 --> 01:25:19,682 -Oh Will, thank you. 1702 01:25:19,715 --> 01:25:22,718 -[Will VO] And that's been a continually gratifying 1703 01:25:22,751 --> 01:25:26,021 aspect of this company that we created. 1704 01:25:26,054 --> 01:25:28,891 But what pushes me and gets me excited are -- frankly -- my 1705 01:25:28,924 --> 01:25:30,526 own projects. 1706 01:25:30,559 --> 01:25:34,863 See something else come to life in a new way. 1707 01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:41,337 One that I'm extremely excited about is this musical project 1708 01:25:41,370 --> 01:25:43,206 called 'The Kiss.' 1709 01:25:43,206 --> 01:25:46,275 I'm not a puppeteer but there's a lot of time that a frog spends 1710 01:25:46,342 --> 01:25:48,211 just sitting there. 1711 01:25:48,244 --> 01:25:50,713 And that's one of their charms is that they're just 1712 01:25:50,746 --> 01:25:52,448 sitting there. 1713 01:25:52,515 --> 01:25:54,783 And frogs are-- real frogs, when they move, 1714 01:25:54,850 --> 01:25:57,253 they're sudden a lot. 1715 01:25:57,286 --> 01:25:59,755 You know, they hop or they move or something, 1716 01:25:59,788 --> 01:26:04,793 and then their backend is completely still again. 1717 01:26:05,794 --> 01:26:07,330 -[Melissa VO] It's an idea that he was working on when 1718 01:26:07,363 --> 01:26:09,832 he was at the studio -- 'The Frog Prince' -- that he wanted 1719 01:26:09,865 --> 01:26:12,268 to do as a feature film. 1720 01:26:12,301 --> 01:26:17,306 Now he's metamorphosing that to now he sees it as a musical. 1721 01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:23,045 *"Sugar Lips" by David Pomeranz and Will Vinton* 1722 01:26:24,313 --> 01:26:26,482 -[Will VO] It's really about all the things we've been 1723 01:26:26,515 --> 01:26:27,716 talking about. 1724 01:26:27,783 --> 01:26:31,554 It's about characters and stories and entertainment, 1725 01:26:31,620 --> 01:26:32,688 about music. 1726 01:26:32,721 --> 01:26:33,956 It's about comedy. 1727 01:26:33,989 --> 01:26:37,159 It's about great conflicts that characters have to face. 1728 01:26:37,260 --> 01:26:41,797 *** 1729 01:26:46,702 --> 01:26:50,339 As long as I'm alive, I'm gonna keep making things. 1730 01:26:50,373 --> 01:26:51,340 I just love it. 1731 01:26:51,374 --> 01:26:53,842 I don't know what else to do. 1732 01:26:53,876 --> 01:26:54,710 It's just great fun. 1733 01:26:54,743 --> 01:26:57,713 It's just great, great fun. 1734 01:26:57,746 --> 01:27:00,283 [drips] 1735 01:27:00,316 --> 01:27:03,886 The condition I have -- it's multiple myeloma -- is a blood 1736 01:27:03,919 --> 01:27:08,090 cancer -- blood and bone. 1737 01:27:08,724 --> 01:27:13,729 And I've sort of done in the past is ignored and not talked 1738 01:27:13,962 --> 01:27:17,766 about health issues. 1739 01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:22,605 And if you don't talk about it, people don't pick up on it, 1740 01:27:22,638 --> 01:27:24,673 and so a lot of people -- even good friends -- might not even 1741 01:27:24,740 --> 01:27:29,077 know that I have this condition. 1742 01:27:30,679 --> 01:27:32,781 If you did mention it to somebody, 1743 01:27:32,815 --> 01:27:35,651 suddenly that was everything. 1744 01:27:35,918 --> 01:27:38,487 It's all anybody talked about, and it's all anybody asked you 1745 01:27:38,521 --> 01:27:40,188 about, and so forth. 1746 01:27:40,323 --> 01:27:42,991 There are so many more things I'd rather have them ask me 1747 01:27:43,025 --> 01:27:46,595 about, like how's-- like, you know... 1748 01:27:46,629 --> 01:27:50,333 about the lead character in 'The Kiss...' 1749 01:27:50,333 --> 01:27:53,369 you know, how does he really...[chuckles] 1750 01:27:53,436 --> 01:27:56,004 is he really the captain of the football team who's been 1751 01:27:56,038 --> 01:27:59,174 handicapped by being a frog? 1752 01:27:59,207 --> 01:28:02,210 I mean, that's fascinating, that's good stuff to talk about 1753 01:28:02,345 --> 01:28:06,114 to me, but... 1754 01:28:06,181 --> 01:28:09,752 during a lot of that time, I forget about it myself. 1755 01:28:10,686 --> 01:28:14,022 Can't forget about it now because I'm kind of into it 1756 01:28:14,056 --> 01:28:16,859 intensely with this new treatment, 1757 01:28:16,892 --> 01:28:19,895 so we'll see how that goes. 1758 01:28:20,696 --> 01:28:23,932 I've been a regular for a long time, so... 1759 01:28:27,102 --> 01:28:29,872 -2006 1760 01:28:29,905 --> 01:28:33,942 -I think that Will becoming very ill with this secret, 1761 01:28:33,976 --> 01:28:38,981 internal disease and having a company that is also sick at the 1762 01:28:39,648 --> 01:28:44,119 same time with internal strife, we don't know if those two 1763 01:28:44,152 --> 01:28:46,154 things are related, but it feels like they are, 1764 01:28:46,221 --> 01:28:48,156 doesn't it? 1765 01:28:48,223 --> 01:28:51,627 What would it have been like if he had been able to say, 1766 01:28:51,660 --> 01:28:55,498 "I'm scared to death" or "I'm really angry?" 1767 01:28:59,468 --> 01:29:02,838 If I could go back in time, I'd shake him, 1768 01:29:02,905 --> 01:29:07,175 and I'd say, "Tell me know you really feel about all of this." 1769 01:29:07,209 --> 01:29:08,411 -[woman] Bye, Will. -Bye-bye! 1770 01:29:08,477 --> 01:29:10,413 -[woman] Have a great week. -See you, thanks. 1771 01:29:10,413 --> 01:29:11,847 -[woman] You're welcome. 1772 01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:14,082 -[Jesse VO] Dying was very confusing for him. 1773 01:29:14,149 --> 01:29:16,151 He would say, "If only this was easier, 1774 01:29:16,184 --> 01:29:21,189 if only I knew kind of what to do." 1775 01:29:23,191 --> 01:29:25,861 [breathes out] 1776 01:29:25,894 --> 01:29:27,195 -I'm gonna cry. I miss him. 1777 01:29:27,229 --> 01:29:30,032 He's my friend. 1778 01:29:30,065 --> 01:29:33,436 Thank you, Mr. Will... 1779 01:29:33,436 --> 01:29:36,539 for everything. 1780 01:29:36,572 --> 01:29:41,577 *slow synthesizer music 1781 01:30:00,729 --> 01:30:02,465 -[Will VO] Everything I've done is a build. 1782 01:30:02,465 --> 01:30:03,466 There's something that I've built, 1783 01:30:03,532 --> 01:30:06,469 one thing on top of the other. 1784 01:30:06,535 --> 01:30:10,739 I love being able to feel like my life is a continuum. 1785 01:30:10,773 --> 01:30:13,942 That things that maybe felt like they might have been missteps 1786 01:30:13,976 --> 01:30:15,911 was not at all a misstep. 1787 01:30:15,944 --> 01:30:19,582 *** 1788 01:30:19,615 --> 01:30:22,050 -[Michele VO] Will was an amalgam of all 1789 01:30:22,084 --> 01:30:24,820 of his characters. 1790 01:30:24,887 --> 01:30:28,824 It's almost as though you took all that clay and you squished 1791 01:30:28,891 --> 01:30:32,495 it back together in a big multicolored ball, 1792 01:30:32,828 --> 01:30:36,799 you'd have Will with his big white mustache and his smile and 1793 01:30:36,832 --> 01:30:39,735 his blue eyes. 1794 01:30:39,768 --> 01:30:43,105 His work -- every time someone discovers it -- 1795 01:30:43,138 --> 01:30:48,110 that pure childhood glee and knowing that there's magic. 1796 01:30:48,143 --> 01:30:51,614 There absolutely is magic. 1797 01:30:51,647 --> 01:30:55,450 *** 1798 01:30:55,484 --> 01:30:56,985 -[Will VO] One of the coolest things about being an 1799 01:30:57,019 --> 01:30:59,354 artist is the thought that you can create some of these things 1800 01:30:59,421 --> 01:31:03,158 and it can go on and live way beyond you. 1801 01:31:04,426 --> 01:31:09,532 It's all such an intense web of human life and human existence. 1802 01:31:10,265 --> 01:31:12,901 [fire crackles] 1803 01:31:14,770 --> 01:31:18,440 [chimes glisten] 1804 01:31:29,451 --> 01:31:34,456 *"Dazed Inn Daydreams" by Ariel Pink*