1
00:00:03,765 --> 00:00:04,432
>>> IT WAS A PEACEFUL PROTEST.

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>> POLICE BRUTALITY.

3
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>> THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION.

4
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>> THEY STARTED SHOOTING
EVERYWHERE.

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00:00:13,741 --> 00:00:19,680
>> WHY YOU START SHOOTING AT US?

6
00:00:19,781 --> 00:00:20,713
>> YOU ALL ARE HIDING?

7
00:00:20,814 --> 00:00:25,686
>> ONLY WAY WE CAN GET JUSTICE
IS TO STAY ALIVE.

8
00:00:25,786 --> 00:00:26,920
>> IF THE GOVERNMENT PAID TO YOU
DISRUPT PROTESTS AGAIN, WOULD

9
00:00:27,019 --> 00:00:27,253
YOU DO IT?

10
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>> YES.

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>> JUST DAYS AFTER LOSING AN
ELECTION, HE WAS CALLING

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ILLEGITIMATE, TRUMP DECAPITATED
THE PENTAGON LEADERSHIP.

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>> THE PEOPLE THAT HE INSTALLED
WERE CLEARLY POLITICAL PEOPLE.

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00:00:36,730 --> 00:00:39,665
>> CAN YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THIS
LOOKS A LITTLE SKETCHY?

15
00:00:39,766 --> 00:00:42,001
>> WE'VE GOT A PRESIDENT WHO
DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE RULE OF

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00:00:42,102 --> 00:00:42,668
LAW.

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00:00:43,370 --> 00:00:44,070
>> DID YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT
MIGHT HAPPEN IF YOU GOT AN ORDER

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00:00:44,170 --> 00:00:47,673
THAT YOU WERE UNCOMFORTABLE
WITH?

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>> ABSOLUTELY.

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>> WE WANT JUSTICE!

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[ GUNFIRE ]

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>> EVERYONE STAY DOWN, SIT DOWN,
SIT DOWN!

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WE DON'T HAVE WEAPONS.
WE DON'T HAVE WEAPONS.

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WE DON'T HAVE WEAPONS AND
THEY'RE SHOOTING AT US.

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>> LAST YEAR ON OCTOBER 20th,
DEMONSTRATORS IN NIGERIA WERE

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GUNNED DOWN AT ONE OF THE
LARGEST AND DEADLIEST PROTESTS

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IN A GENERATION.
THEY WERE CALLING FOR THE

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DISBANDING OF A FEDERAL POLICE
UNIT CALLED SARS, THE SPECIAL

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ANTI-ROBBERY SQUAD.

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>> LET IT BE KNOWN THAT I DIED
FIGHTING FOR OUR FREEDOM, FOR

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WHAT WE BELIEVE IN.

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>> SARS WAS CREATED DECADES AGO
IN RESPONSE TO A RISE IN THEFT

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AND VIOLENT CRIMES, BUT QUICKLY
BECAME A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE.

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NOTORIOUS FOR THE EXTORSION,
TORTURE, RAPE, KIDNAPPING AND

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00:02:06,549 --> 00:02:09,686
MURDER NIGERIAN CITIZENS, SARS
IS A SYMPTOM OF A CORRUPT

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GOVERNMENT RULING OVER A COUNTRY
PLAGUED BY POVERTY.

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>> POLICE BRUTALITY!

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>> THE MOVEMENT TO END SARS
STARTED IN 2017 AMONG THE YOUTH

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OF NIGERIA AND MASS PROTESTS
ERUPTED LAST FALL AS A GROWING

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RECKONING OF ABUSES OF POWER
GREW ACROSS THE WORLD.

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>> WE ARE ASKING FOR A COMPLETE
ABOLITION.

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>> WE DON'T WANT IT.

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>> PROTESTERS HAVE BEEN BACKED
BY HUGELY POPULAR ARTISTS LIKE A

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LAWYER TURNED RAPPER WHOSE
LYRICS TELL ABOUT POLICE ABUSE

45
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HEAD ON.

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HE JUST DROPPED, BEST TO SHOOT

47
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THEM IN
JOHNNY WERE THIS INNOCENT, NEW

48
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IN TOWN
THEY'RE KILLING FOR NO JUST

49
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CAUSE
NOBODY FEET COME OFF A HOUSE

50
00:02:57,899 --> 00:03:01,369
>> SO TALK TO ME WITH WHAT IT
WAS LIKE FROM THE BEGINNING.

51
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>> IT'S A SIMPLE CAUSE THAT
RESONATED WITH EVERYONE, END

52
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POLICE BRUTALITY.
IT WAS A REACTION, LIKE SOMEBODY

53
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SHOUTED FROM SOMEWHERE, YO,
ENOUGH IT ENOUGH!

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AND EVERYONE IN THE ROOM HEARD
THAT SHOUT AND THEY LIKE, YEAH,

55
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ACTUALLY, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

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>> RIGHT, RIGHT.
THE PROTEST MOVEMENT THROUGHOUT

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THE HISTORY OF NIGERIA.

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>> YES.

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>> WHAT MAKES THIS GENERATION OF
PROTEST ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE

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00:03:26,192 --> 00:03:27,294
PROTESTS OF YOUR FOREFATHERS?

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>> I TELL YOU WHAT MAKES THIS
ONE DIFFERENT, NO ONE WAS

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LEADING.
WE HAVE TREK, THE INTERNET, WE

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HAVE THESE TOOLS THAT ARE OUR
ADVANTAGE, LIKE A CENTER POINT,

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MEETING GROUND FOR EVERYONE.
WE KNOW WHERE TO GET

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INFORMATION.
I DON'T THINK NIGERIA HAS EVER

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SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE.

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>> WHAT BEGAN AS A PEACEFUL
DEMONSTRATION BECAME KNOWN AS

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THE MASSACRE, STARTED AN ENTIRE
MOVEMENT.

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DUE TO THE VIOLENT CRACKDOWN,
MANY DEMONSTRATORS WERE FORCED

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UNDERGROUND.

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>> PROTESTERS WHO MANAGED WHO
MAKE IT OUT ALIVE AFTER THE

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00:04:05,496 --> 00:04:09,267
LEKKE TOLLGATE SHOOTING ARE
WORRYING THEY'D BE TARGETED BY

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SECURITY FORCES FOR SPEAKING OUT
ABOUT WHAT THEY SAW.

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WE'RE ON OUR WAY TO A SAFE HOUSE
TO MEET PROTESTERS WERE WHO WERE

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BEATEN AND SHOT AND NOW IN
HIDING.

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00:04:18,874 --> 00:04:23,347
>> FOR THE LAST THREE MONTHS,
SARAH IBRAHIM AND A HANDFUL OF

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OTHER PROTESTERS HAVE BEEN ON
THE RUN MOVING FROM ONE

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00:04:29,085 --> 00:04:31,655
SAFEHOUSE TO THE NEXT AS THEY
GATHER EVIDENCE OF WHAT THEY SAY

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SHOW THE GOVERNMENT'S VIOLENT
RESPONSE TO THE TOLLGATE

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PROTEST.
HOW DOES IT FEEL TO MOVE FROM

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ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER?

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>> NOT OOZY.
BAGS EVERYWHERE BECAUSE WE NEED

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00:04:45,368 --> 00:04:49,005
TO LEAVE THIS PLACE TODAY.
THE ONLY WAY WE CAN GET JUSTICE

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00:04:49,104 --> 00:05:00,515
FOR THOSE THAT DIED IS TO STAY
SAFE AND STAY ALIVE.

85
00:05:00,616 --> 00:05:03,185
>> IF I DON'T COME BACK ALIVE, I
LOVE YOU GUYS.

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00:05:03,284 --> 00:05:06,653
>> THESE CELL PHONE VIDEOS ARE
IMAGES THE NIGERIAN GOVERNMENT

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00:05:06,754 --> 00:05:09,823
DOESN'T WANT ANYONE TO SEE.
MANY OF THE PROTESTERS WHO

88
00:05:09,924 --> 00:05:12,659
RECORDED THEM HAVE HAD TO FLEE
THE COUNTRY.

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00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:13,494
SOME ARE NOW DEAD.

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00:05:13,595 --> 00:05:18,933
>> THEY'RE SHOOTING AT US WITH
GUNS.

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00:05:19,034 --> 00:05:26,907
>> TOLLGATE IT'S NEVER BEEN LIKE
THAT.

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00:05:27,008 --> 00:05:30,744
>> INITIALLY WHEN WE HEARD THE
SHOOTING THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW

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IT WAS THE NIGERIAN MILITARY.
THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION.

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00:05:36,683 --> 00:05:43,457
WE JUST HEARD GUNSHOTS.

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00:05:43,556 --> 00:05:49,530
>> AT FIRST, WE THOUGHT MAYBE
THEY WERE HOODLUMS, THEN WE

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00:05:49,630 --> 00:05:53,032
NOTICED THEY WERE MILITARY, THEY
ARE SHOOTING SO THEY KEPT

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ADVANCING AND ADVANCING UNTIL
THEY GOT TO US, CLOSE US IN.

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[ GUNFIRE ]

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00:06:04,076 --> 00:06:07,679
>> THEY STARTED SHOOTING
EVERYWHERE, AND NEXT THING, I

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00:06:07,780 --> 00:06:18,155
SAW THE MILITARY MAN FACE ME,
SHOT AT ME, SHOT ME ON MY CHEST.

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00:06:18,256 --> 00:06:20,357
>> THE SHOT CAME OUT FROM THE
BACK.

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00:06:20,458 --> 00:06:26,131
>> DID YOU THINK YOU WERE GOING
TO DIE THAT NIGHT?

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00:06:26,231 --> 00:06:30,534
>> I THOUGHT EVERYBODY SAID THIS
IS A MIRACLE, SOMEBODY WAS SHOT

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IN THE CHEST AND THE BULLET FROM
THE BACK, AND STILL ALIVE.

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00:06:37,075 --> 00:06:41,145
>> WE NEED AMBULANCE, WE NEED
AMBULANCE, WE NEED AMBULANCE.

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00:06:41,244 --> 00:06:46,484
PLEASE, PUT PRESSURE.
DON'T LET HER SLEEP.

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00:06:46,583 --> 00:06:47,585
DON'T LET HER CLOSE HER EYES.

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00:06:47,684 --> 00:06:48,818
>> A LOT OF INJURIES.
IT WAS A TERRIBLE EXPERIENCE.

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I TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT IT
BECAUSE AT THE POINT SOMEONE IN

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FRONT OF ME WAS SHOT AND I TRIED
CARRYING THE PERSON, I TRIED

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CARRYING THE PERSON AND THE
BLOOD FROM THE PERSON, I COULD

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NOT, I JUST LEFT HIM.

113
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>> YOU EVEN PLAYED DEAD AT THE
PROTEST.

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00:07:11,741 --> 00:07:15,712
>> YES.
I WAS SURROUNDED BY EIGHT

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00:07:15,811 --> 00:07:22,051
POLICEMEN EIGHT, HITTING ME WITH
THE AK-47.

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>> POLICE, POLICE ARE SHOOTING.

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>> WHEN I FELL DOWN, I STOPPED
MOVING.

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THAT WAS WHEN THEY LEFT ME AND
STARTED SHOOTING AT OTHER

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PROTESTERS THAT WERE TRYING TO
RUN AWAY.

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>> BROKEN ON MY HEAD, BRUISE
EVERYWHERE, WITHOUT DOING

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ANYTHING.

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>> IN THE WEEKS THAT FOLLOWED
THE GOVERNMENT FLIP-FLOPPED ON

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ITS RESPONSE TO LEKKI TOLL.
THE MILITARY FIRST SAID THEY

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WERE NEVER THERE AND ADMITTED
THEY RESPONDED BUT DIDN'T SHOOT

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AT PROTESTERS.

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>> EVERY EVIDENCE POINTS TO THE
WORST CASE OF MASSACRE WITH

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00:07:59,587 --> 00:08:00,020
BLOOD.

128
00:08:00,854 --> 00:08:03,224
>> YOU MENTIONED CRAWLING OVER
BODIES SEEING PEOPLE BLEEDING,

129
00:08:03,324 --> 00:08:07,628
TRYING TO HELP THEM, AND YET YOU
HAVE THE NIGH

130
00:08:07,728 --> 00:08:11,032
HAVE THE NIGERIAN GOVERNMENT
DENY SHOOTING INTO THE CROWD.

131
00:08:11,132 --> 00:08:13,367
HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

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>> WE PICKED BULLETS RIGHT THERE
THAT DAY.

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I DON'T KNOW WHY.

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>> EACH ONE OF THOSE --

135
00:08:20,072 --> 00:08:26,012
>> ALL THESE ARE BULLETS, TRACED
TO THE NIGERIAN ARMY.

136
00:08:26,112 --> 00:08:30,349
AND I JUST WANT THEM TO COME OUT
AND TELL US THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT

137
00:08:30,450 --> 00:08:33,552
HAPPENED THAT DAY.
THIS ONE IS STILL LIVE.

138
00:08:33,652 --> 00:08:35,654
THIS IS STILL A LIVE BULLET.
HERE.

139
00:08:35,754 --> 00:08:40,859
>> YES, IT IS ACTUALLY, YES,
THAT'S A LIVE BULLET.

140
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:48,633
>> SO WHY WOULD YOU COME OUT,
SHOOT AT PEOPLE, AND THEN YOU

141
00:08:48,734 --> 00:08:51,302
COME BACK SAYING IT WAS
BLOODNESS AND BODILESS.

142
00:08:51,402 --> 00:08:54,006
>> THE GOVERNOR OF LAGOS
ADMITTED TO TWO DEATHS BUT

143
00:08:54,105 --> 00:09:08,619
WITNESSES WE SPOKE TO CLAIM THE
DEATH TOLL IS FAR GREATER.

144
00:09:09,954 --> 00:09:15,627
HER SON LEKON IS ONE OF 12
PROTERSERS AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

145
00:09:15,726 --> 00:09:19,696
SAYS WERE KILLED BY SECURITY
FORCES.

146
00:09:19,796 --> 00:09:23,734
THE GOVERNMENT HAS CLAIMED THAT
THINGS LIKE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN

147
00:09:23,835 --> 00:09:37,380
THAT NIGHT.
[ SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE ]

148
00:09:48,892 --> 00:09:52,194
NEW FINDINGS HAVE EMERGED THAT
SUGGEST THE GOVERNMENT ATTEMPTED

149
00:09:52,295 --> 00:09:55,196
TO DISMANTLE THE END SARS
MOVEMENT FROM WITHIN.

150
00:09:55,297 --> 00:09:58,700
SOURCES WE'VE SPOKEN TO SAY
CRIMINAL GANGS WERE EMPLOYED TO

151
00:09:58,801 --> 00:10:05,106
INFILTRATE PEACEFUL PROTESTS AND
CAUSE CHAOS.

152
00:10:05,206 --> 00:10:06,408
WHY HAVE YOU DECIDED TO HIDE
YOUR FACE FOR THIS INTERVIEW?

153
00:10:06,508 --> 00:10:07,542
>> FOR MY LIFE.

154
00:10:07,643 --> 00:10:12,614
>> WHO WOULD GIVE YOU PROBLEMS
IF YOU SHOWED YOUR FACE?

155
00:10:12,715 --> 00:10:14,581
>> THE NIGERIAN GOVERNMENT, THEY
CAN COME AT ANY TIME AND THERE'S

156
00:10:14,682 --> 00:10:15,849
NOTHING I CAN DO.

157
00:10:15,950 --> 00:10:19,653
>> DID THE NIGERIAN GOVERNMENT
PAY YOU TO DISRUPT THE END SARS

158
00:10:19,753 --> 00:10:20,921
PROTEST?

159
00:10:21,022 --> 00:10:27,295
>> ACCORDING TO WHAT MY FRIEND
TOLD ME, THEY GIVE ME THE MONEY,

160
00:10:27,394 --> 00:10:37,870
WE WANT TO END THE PROTEST.

161
00:10:38,439 --> 00:10:39,907
SO PEOPLE THAT WE BEAT WITH
STICK.

162
00:10:40,007 --> 00:10:44,577
>> SO YOU WERE TOLD TO THROW
ROCKS, BOTTLES AND STICKS AND TO

163
00:10:44,677 --> 00:10:47,147
BEAT PEOPLE TO SCATTER
PROTESTERS?

164
00:10:47,247 --> 00:10:50,084
>> YES.
AND PEOPLE WHEN THEY SEE US,

165
00:10:50,183 --> 00:10:51,218
THEY WERE SCARED.

166
00:10:51,317 --> 00:10:57,123
>> HOW MUCH DID YOU GET PAID TO
DISRUPT THE PROTESTS?

167
00:10:57,224 --> 00:10:57,791
>> 20,000.

168
00:10:58,425 --> 00:11:01,594
>> WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE
NIGERIAN GOVERNMENT WHEN THEY

169
00:11:01,694 --> 00:11:05,598
DENY THAT THEY PAID ANYONE TO DO
WHAT YOU ALL DID?

170
00:11:05,697 --> 00:11:11,570
>> THEY CAN'T DENY.
WHY THEY SEND UP?

171
00:11:11,671 --> 00:11:14,474
>> THE GOVERNMENT PAID YOU MONEY
TO DISRUPT PROTESTS AGAIN, WOULD

172
00:11:14,574 --> 00:11:18,444
YOU DO IT?

173
00:11:18,543 --> 00:11:22,147
>> AS NIGERIA, THE ECONOMY HAS
NOT CHANGED.

174
00:11:22,248 --> 00:11:26,384
I KNOW THE PROTESTS ARE AGAINST
ME BUT I GOT FAMILY I'M FEED SO

175
00:11:26,484 --> 00:11:28,619
LONG I CAN'T JUST LEAVE THEM.

176
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,656
>> YOU'D DO IT?

177
00:11:31,757 --> 00:11:37,027
>> YES.
IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF THE

178
00:11:37,128 --> 00:11:40,231
PROTESTERS CORE DEMANDS DURING
THE UNPRECEDENTED NATIONWIDE

179
00:11:40,331 --> 00:11:42,868
DEMONSTRATIONS THE GOVERNMENT
CREATED JUDICIAL PANELS TO

180
00:11:42,968 --> 00:11:47,004
INVESTIGATE ACCOUNTS OF POLICE
BRUTALITY.

181
00:11:47,104 --> 00:11:52,976
>> THE NIGERIA POLICE FORCE WHO
ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ANY FRIEND

182
00:11:53,076 --> 00:11:57,348
ASSISTED THESE PEOPLE WHO
CARRIED OUT THE KIDNAPPING.

183
00:11:57,447 --> 00:12:02,152
>> WE HAD VICTIMS FOR POLICE
ABUSE IN NIGERIA, THE PANEL CAN

184
00:12:02,253 --> 00:12:05,589
ONLY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS AND
BECAUSE OF THAT, A LOT OF

185
00:12:05,689 --> 00:12:11,695
NIGERIAN CITIZENS THINK THIS IS
TO PACIFY TO KEEP PEOPLE OFF THE

186
00:12:11,796 --> 00:12:15,431
STREET BEFORE THE VICTIMS THAT
ARE TESTIFYING THIS MAY BE THE

187
00:12:15,532 --> 00:12:18,468
CLOSEST THING THEY COME TO
JUSTICE.

188
00:12:18,567 --> 00:12:27,009
>> IN OCTOBER 2020 A CASE OF
ATTACK ON THE POLICE STATION WAS

189
00:12:27,109 --> 00:12:27,777
REPORTED.

190
00:12:28,411 --> 00:12:31,714
>> FELICIA OKPARTE ACCUSED THE
POLICE OF BEATING AND DETAINING

191
00:12:31,815 --> 00:12:32,315
HER.

192
00:12:33,115 --> 00:12:37,552
>> YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO
IDENTIFY THE POLICE OFFICERS WHO

193
00:12:37,652 --> 00:12:42,458
ALLEGEDLY ASSAULTED YOU, TRUE OR
FALSE?

194
00:12:42,557 --> 00:12:47,463
>> YES, I THINK SO.
I'M SORRY, I WON'T GIVE YOU A

195
00:12:47,562 --> 00:12:51,266
YES ANSWER.

196
00:12:51,365 --> 00:12:53,535
>> FELICIA SAYS SHE CAN PROVE
HER ASSAULT BY POLICE POINTING

197
00:12:53,634 --> 00:12:56,971
TO VIDEO OF THE ENCOUNTER.
IN IT SHE CAN BE SEEN DRAGGED

198
00:12:57,071 --> 00:13:00,541
ACROSS THE STREET BY OFFICERS.

199
00:13:00,641 --> 00:13:04,010
>> I TOLD YOU I CANNOT RECOGNIZE
ALL THE FACES OF THE PEOPLE WHO

200
00:13:04,110 --> 00:13:07,647
ASSAULTED ME.
I WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE

201
00:13:07,748 --> 00:13:12,452
PEOPLE WHO WERE INSIDE THE
POLICE STATION.

202
00:13:12,552 --> 00:13:15,022
ONE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS ORDERED
ME TO TAKE OFF MY CLOTHES IN THE

203
00:13:15,122 --> 00:13:17,391
PRESENCE OF MEN INSIDE THERE.

204
00:13:17,492 --> 00:13:24,531
>> ARE YOU STATING THAT YOU DID
NOT KNOW YOU WERE UNDER ARREST?

205
00:13:24,631 --> 00:13:29,668
>> I DIDN'T KNOW WHY I WAS
BEATEN AND ARRESTED.

206
00:13:29,768 --> 00:13:30,103
>> I

207
00:13:30,637 --> 00:13:33,873
>> YOU STILL WANT TO STAND ON
THAT?

208
00:13:33,974 --> 00:13:37,143
>> DO YOU FEEL CONFIDENT THAT
THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT

209
00:13:37,244 --> 00:13:39,144
DIRECTION TOWARDS JUSTICE?

210
00:13:39,245 --> 00:13:42,481
>> I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT'S
GOING TO HAPPEN BUT I JUST

211
00:13:42,581 --> 00:13:46,619
WANTED TO BE OUT THERE, THAT I
TRIED MY BEST TO SHOW THAT

212
00:13:46,719 --> 00:13:50,989
JUSTICE HAS BEEN CARRIED OUT.
IF I DON'T MAKE RIGHTS WITH MY

213
00:13:51,090 --> 00:13:54,359
VOICE BEING HEARD, THAT MEANS MY
DAUGHTER WILL SUFFER THE SAME

214
00:13:54,460 --> 00:13:54,893
FATE.

215
00:13:55,694 --> 00:13:58,062
>> ALTHOUGH THERE'S NO END IN
SIGHT, THIS MOVEMENT TO END

216
00:13:58,162 --> 00:14:01,300
POLICE BRUTALITY EMPOWERED A NEW
GENERATION OF NIGERIANS TO STAND

217
00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:07,373
UP AND FIGHT FOR GOVERNMENT
REFORM, EVEN IF IT MEANS RISKING

218
00:14:07,473 --> 00:14:08,239
DEATH.
WHERE DO YOU FIND THE COURAGE TO

219
00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:11,408
DO THIS, KNOWING THAT YOU'RE RIS
BEING

220
00:14:11,508 --> 00:14:14,912
BEI ING BEI

221
00:14:15,013 --> 00:14:16,446
INGKING YOUR LIFE?

222
00:14:16,547 --> 00:14:20,884
>> EVERY DAY IN NIGER JA IS A
RISK.

223
00:14:20,984 --> 00:14:23,488
A LOT OF VICTIMS ARE THERE BUT
THEY CAN'T SPEAK UP.

224
00:14:23,588 --> 00:14:28,792
I JUST WANT THERE TO BE A REFORM
AND WHEN I SEE A POLICEMAN IN

225
00:14:28,893 --> 00:14:30,394
NIGERIA I DON'T NEED TO BE
AFRAID.

226
00:14:30,494 --> 00:14:35,231
I DON'T WANT CHILDREN BORN TO
GROW INTO THAT KIND OF SOCIETY

227
00:14:35,331 --> 00:14:46,442
WHERE THEY ARE SCARED OF ANOTHER
PERSON BECAUSE OF THE UNIFORM.

228
00:15:04,660 --> 00:15:07,529
>> WHAT HAPPENED IN WASHINGTON
ON JANUARY 6th HAS BEEN CALLED A

229
00:15:07,629 --> 00:15:11,533
LOT OF THINGS, A RIOT, AN
INSURRECTION

230
00:15:11,633 --> 00:15:13,802
INSURREC
INSURRECTION, AN ACT OF DOMESTIC

231
00:15:13,902 --> 00:15:17,205
TERROR BUT WHAT OF THE SCARIEST
ASPECTS OF THE SCENES WASN'T THE

232
00:15:17,306 --> 00:15:19,141
VIOLENCE THAT TOOK PLACE THAT
DAY.

233
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,243
IT'S HOW MUCH WORSE THINGS COULD
HAVE GONE.

234
00:15:21,344 --> 00:15:25,346
>> WE'RE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS
AWAY FROM WHAT HAPPENED, WE FIND

235
00:15:25,446 --> 00:15:31,018
OUT MORE ABOUT WHAT REALLY WENT
ON AND HOW CLOSE WERE WE TO THAT

236
00:15:31,119 --> 00:15:33,455
BRINK.
I THINK WE'LL FIND OUT WE WERE

237
00:15:33,555 --> 00:15:37,524
CLOSER THAN MAYBE WE UNDERSTAND
WE WERE.

238
00:15:37,625 --> 00:15:41,162
>> CHUCK HAGEL IS A REPUBLICAN
WHO SERVED THE SECRETARY OF

239
00:15:41,262 --> 00:15:44,398
DEFENSE UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA.
HE THINKS WHAT AMERICA WITNESSED

240
00:15:44,498 --> 00:15:52,006
IN JANUARY WAS AS CLOSE AS THIS
COUNTRY'S COME IN CENTURIES TO A

241
00:15:52,105 --> 00:15:53,040
C COUNTRY'S COME IN CENTURIES TO
A

242
00:15:53,306 --> 00:15:55,274
COUP THANKS TO THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION'S EFFORTS TO POLL

243
00:15:55,375 --> 00:15:56,476
TUCKIZE THE PENTAGON.

244
00:15:56,576 --> 00:16:01,981
>> THE PEOPLE THAT HE INSTALLED
IN HIGH LEVEL RESPONSIBLE

245
00:16:02,081 --> 00:16:07,253
POLICY-MAKING DECISIONS, THEY
WERE CLEARLY POLITICAL PEOPLE,

246
00:16:07,354 --> 00:16:11,190
MANY WERE UNQUALIFIED TO BE
THERE.

247
00:16:11,290 --> 00:16:15,827
CLEARLY IT WAS MEANT FOR THIS
PRESIDENT TO RUN THE PENTAGON AS

248
00:16:15,927 --> 00:16:16,929
A POLITICAL ARM.

249
00:16:17,029 --> 00:16:18,897
>> THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE TO
YOU?

250
00:16:18,998 --> 00:16:22,768
>> NOT ONLY WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE
BUT THAT'S WHAT WAS GOING ON.

251
00:16:22,869 --> 00:16:25,604
NATIONAL SECURITY IS NOT A
POLITICAL ISSUE.

252
00:16:25,705 --> 00:16:26,739
IT NEVER HAS BEEN.
IT CAN'T BE.

253
00:16:26,839 --> 00:16:29,975
THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT
DIFFERENCES IN OUR DEMOCRACY.

254
00:16:30,075 --> 00:16:33,512
>> THE PRESIDENT IS ALWAYS
COMMANDER IN CHIEF, BUT IT'S THE

255
00:16:33,612 --> 00:16:35,479
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE THAT
EFFECTIVELY RUNS THE MILITARY.

256
00:16:35,579 --> 00:16:38,950
WHILE DOD LEADERSHIP IS
APPOINTED BY THE WHITE HOUSE,

257
00:16:39,050 --> 00:16:43,587
THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE IN ROOM
FOR PARTISAN POLL TINGZ IN

258
00:16:43,689 --> 00:16:47,692
OPERATIONAL MATTERS.
HAGEL SAYS TRUMP BLURRED THOSE

259
00:16:47,793 --> 00:16:52,163
LINES LIKE NO OTHER PRESIDENT
BEFORE BUT ENCOUNTERED

260
00:16:52,264 --> 00:16:52,831
PUSH-BACK.

261
00:16:53,531 --> 00:16:55,166
>> THE OPTION SHOULD ONLY BE
USED AS A MATTER OF LAST RESORT

262
00:16:55,267 --> 00:17:00,071
AND ONLY IN THE MOST URGENT AND
DIRE OF SITUATIONS.

263
00:17:00,171 --> 00:17:04,408
>> I THINK TRUMP WAS BECOMING
VERY FRUSTRATED THAT HE WAS NOT

264
00:17:04,508 --> 00:17:10,448
BEING ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY
FACILITATE THE POLITICIZATION OF

265
00:17:10,547 --> 00:17:11,548
THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT.

266
00:17:11,649 --> 00:17:19,256
>> JUST DAYS AFTER LOSING AN
ELECTION HE WAS CALLING

267
00:17:19,355 --> 00:17:23,625
ILLEGITIMATE, TRUMP DECAPITATED
THE PENTAGON.

268
00:17:23,727 --> 00:17:25,995
>> THE SHAKEUP 70 DAYS BEFORE
THE PRESIDENT IS SET TO LEAVE

269
00:17:26,095 --> 00:17:28,030
OFFICE IS RAISING NATIONAL
SECURITY CONCERNS.

270
00:17:28,131 --> 00:17:31,700
>> AS WE'RE TOLD THE MILLER IT
TIMES HIS REPLACEMENT WOULD THE

271
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:37,172
PRESIDENT'S "YES MAN" AND IF
THAT HAPPENS, HE SAYS "GOD HELP

272
00:17:37,273 --> 00:17:37,640
US."

273
00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:41,210
>> CHRIS MILLER, A NAME FEW
RECOGNIZED WAS APPOINTED ACTING

274
00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:47,816
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE WITH FORMER
DEVIN NUNEZ AID CASH PATEL AS

275
00:17:47,915 --> 00:17:49,050
HIS CHIEF OF STAFF.

276
00:17:49,151 --> 00:17:51,220
>> I WAS CONCERNED LIKE MOST WHO
WORKED AT THE PENTAGON AS TO

277
00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:54,256
WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO NEXT.
HE WAS BRINGING IN A NEW

278
00:17:54,355 --> 00:17:57,392
SECRETARY, AND HE TALKED ABOUT
POSSIBILITY OF USING THE

279
00:17:57,492 --> 00:17:59,627
MILITARY TO RE-RUN THE
ELECTIONS.

280
00:17:59,728 --> 00:18:01,529
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE MILITARY
DOES.

281
00:18:01,630 --> 00:18:08,068
>> ALARMED, HAGEL AND ALL LIVING
FORMER SECRETARIES OF DEFENSE,

282
00:18:08,169 --> 00:18:10,904
TEN OF THEM, MADE AN
UNPRECEDENTED MOVE.

283
00:18:11,005 --> 00:18:14,307
SIGNED A LETTER SAYING IT WAS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND UNLAWFUL

284
00:18:14,408 --> 00:18:18,613
USE OF THE MILITARY.
CALLED OUT BY NAME BY ALL OF HIS

285
00:18:18,712 --> 00:18:21,248
PREDECESSORS, CHRIS MILLER, THE
MAN TRUMP PICKED TO RUN THE

286
00:18:21,348 --> 00:18:24,418
PENTAGON IN SUCH CONTROVERSIAL
CIRCUMSTANCES, AGREED TO SIT

287
00:18:24,518 --> 00:18:26,354
DOWN AND TELL HIS SIDE OF THE
STORY.

288
00:18:26,453 --> 00:18:32,558
>> THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN
THAT WE WERE JUST SOME SORT OF

289
00:18:32,659 --> 00:18:36,997
TRUMP HATCHET MEN COMING IN TO
DO HEINOUS THINGS TO THE

290
00:18:37,096 --> 00:18:38,597
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE WHICH
COULDN'T BE FURTHER FROM THE

291
00:18:38,698 --> 00:18:39,132
TRUTH

292
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:42,602
>> MILLER IS A CAREER MILITARY
OFFICER AND SPECIAL FORCES

293
00:18:42,701 --> 00:18:44,703
DEMANDER, TURNED
COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL WHO

294
00:18:44,805 --> 00:18:49,041
FIRST MET DONALD TRUMP IN THE
SITUATION ROOM DURING THE RAID

295
00:18:49,142 --> 00:18:52,845
THAT CALLED AL BAGHDADI.
WHEN TRUMP OFFERED HIM THE TOP

296
00:18:52,946 --> 00:18:56,382
JOB, MILLER UNDERSTOOD HIS
MISSION AS ENDING THE WAR IN

297
00:18:56,481 --> 00:19:02,054
AFGHANISTAN AND BRINGING TROOPS
HOME FROM IRAQ AND SOMALIA BUT

298
00:19:02,153 --> 00:19:04,056
MILITARY LEADERSHIP SEEMED WARY
OF SOMETHING MORE.

299
00:19:04,155 --> 00:19:08,093
>> WE DO NOT TAKE AN OATH TO A
KING OR A QUEEN, A TYRANT OR

300
00:19:08,193 --> 00:19:12,198
DICTATOR.
WE DO NOT TAKE AN OATH TO AN

301
00:19:12,297 --> 00:19:13,431
INDIVIDUAL.

302
00:19:13,531 --> 00:19:17,102
>> SOUNDS ALMOST DIRECTED AT
AWE, A FEW AFTER YOU COME IN AND

303
00:19:17,202 --> 00:19:23,674
BASICALLY SAYING THIS IS NOT
GOING TO BE AN INSTITUTION THAT

304
00:19:23,775 --> 00:19:25,610
BECOMES POLITICIZED.

305
00:19:25,710 --> 00:19:28,011
>> AN INSTITUTION I GAVE A HUGE
AMOUNT OF MYSELF LIFE TO AND

306
00:19:28,112 --> 00:19:31,316
THERE WAS NO WAY THAT I WAS
GOING TO BRING DISCREDIT TO THE

307
00:19:31,415 --> 00:19:32,182
ARMED FORCES.

308
00:19:32,683 --> 00:19:34,552
>> DID YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT
MIGHT HAPPEN IF YOU GOT AN ORDER

309
00:19:34,652 --> 00:19:36,587
THAT YOU WERE UNCOMFORTABLE
WITH?

310
00:19:36,688 --> 00:19:37,221
>> ABSOLUTELY.

311
00:19:37,322 --> 00:19:39,223
>> THAT CROSSED YOUR MIND?

312
00:19:39,324 --> 00:19:43,626
>> OH, OF COURSE, YEAH, I DID
ALL MY NET ASSESSMENT AND

313
00:19:43,727 --> 00:19:48,765
MISSION ANALYSIS AND ETHICAL,
MORAL AND LEGAL RED LINES.

314
00:19:48,865 --> 00:19:49,900
>> YOU DID?

315
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:55,104
>> YES, IT'S THE CONSTANT DRUM
BEAT THAT'S GOING ON OF, YOU

316
00:19:55,204 --> 00:19:59,508
KNOW, POTENTIAL ILLEGAL,
IMMORAL, UNETHICAL ACTIVITIES.

317
00:19:59,610 --> 00:20:03,713
I KNEW THAT I WAS NOT GOING TO
CROSS ANY OF THOSE LINES AND IF

318
00:20:03,814 --> 00:20:05,147
ASKED, I WOULD RESIGN.

319
00:20:05,248 --> 00:20:10,286
>> BUT JANUARY 6th TOOK CONCERNS
ABOUT THE POLITICAL CLIMATE

320
00:20:10,385 --> 00:20:15,357
AROUND COMMAND AND CONTROL OF
THE MILITARY TO AN ENTIRELY

321
00:20:15,458 --> 00:20:20,328
DIFFERENT LEVEL.

322
00:20:20,429 --> 00:20:23,031
>> IT WAS SUCH AN UNCERTAIN
TIME.

323
00:20:23,132 --> 00:20:27,370
I THINK EVERYONE WAS SCARED.

324
00:20:27,470 --> 00:20:31,839
>> ADAM SOLSKI IS A FORMER CIA
ATTORNEY AND NOW CONTRIBUTING

325
00:20:31,940 --> 00:20:33,173
EDITOR OF "VANITY FAIR."

326
00:20:33,275 --> 00:20:40,382
>> WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO
DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE RULE OF

327
00:20:40,481 --> 00:20:43,117
LAW AND I THOUGHT THE ONLY WAY
THEY EFFECTUATE SOMETHING REALLY

328
00:20:43,218 --> 00:20:44,385
DARK --

329
00:20:44,486 --> 00:20:46,921
>> A LONG SHOT REQUEST TO EMBED
WITH THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE

330
00:20:47,021 --> 00:20:49,024
DURING HIS FINAL WEEK ON THE
JOB.

331
00:20:49,123 --> 00:20:52,259
>> BY THE TIME I SAW THE
ITINERARY, IT COULD BE READ ONE

332
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,496
TWO OF WAYS, LIKE OH, THIS IS
JUST HIS LAST TRIP, ACTING

333
00:20:55,595 --> 00:21:01,035
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, OR WOW,
THIS IS WHERE THE REVOLUTION

334
00:21:01,134 --> 00:21:03,069
STARTS.
WE WENT TO OAK RIDGE, WHERE THEY

335
00:21:03,170 --> 00:21:07,274
ASSEMBLE AND DISMANTLE NUCLEAR
WEAPONS, STRATCOM, COMMAND AND

336
00:21:07,373 --> 00:21:14,581
CONTROL FOR NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
NORTH COM, SPACE COM, NORAD.

337
00:21:14,681 --> 00:21:17,316
>> YOU WERE WITH THESE GUY AS
THE PRESIDENT WAS IMPEACHED?

338
00:21:17,417 --> 00:21:21,688
>> ON THE PLANE WITH THE
MONITORS, SHOWING THE

339
00:21:21,787 --> 00:21:23,556
IMPEACHMENT VOTE.
I'M TRAVELING WITH THE GUY WHO

340
00:21:23,655 --> 00:21:30,129
HAS ALL THE TOYS TO CARRY OUT A
COUP AND YET HE DIDN'T.

341
00:21:30,229 --> 00:21:34,600
>> LAST BUT NOT LEAST, A SHOUT
OUT TO THE CHIEF OF STAFF PATEL,

342
00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:39,404
ROUND OF APPLAUSE, PLEASE,
THANKS FOR COMING ALONG.

343
00:21:39,505 --> 00:21:44,041
>> IF THE CHANGES AT THE
PENTAGON WERE TRUMP'S LAST DITCH

344
00:21:44,142 --> 00:21:45,309
ATTEMPT TO CLING ON TO POWER,
IT'S THE TEAM THAT WAS INSTALLED

345
00:21:45,410 --> 00:21:50,015
WITH CHRIS MILLER WHO WOULD KNOW
BUT NOBODY'S HEARD MUCH FROM

346
00:21:50,114 --> 00:21:52,183
THEM SO FAR.
DESPITE ALL OF THE MEDIA

347
00:21:52,284 --> 00:21:54,553
COVERAGE OF THE TRUMP
PRESIDENCY, ESPECIALLY THE LAST

348
00:21:54,652 --> 00:21:58,222
FEW WEEKS OF THE ADMINISTRATION,
WE ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW VERY MUCH

349
00:21:58,323 --> 00:22:01,026
ABOUT THE CONVERSATIONS THAT
WENT ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

350
00:22:01,125 --> 00:22:05,662
SO WE WERE SURPRISED WHEN CASH
PATEL AGREED TO GIVE US AN

351
00:22:05,762 --> 00:22:10,433
INTERVIEW.
PATEL WAS IN TELLURIDE,

352
00:22:10,534 --> 00:22:13,703
COLORADO, DETOXING AFTER ONE OF
THE HIGHEST NATIONAL SECURITY

353
00:22:13,804 --> 00:22:16,473
ROLES IN THE COUNTRY, DESCRIBED
AS A TRUMP LOYALIST AND

354
00:22:16,574 --> 00:22:19,809
INSTRUMENTAL IN THE REPUBLICAN
EFFORT TO DEBUNK THE RUSSIA

355
00:22:19,910 --> 00:22:20,678
INVESTIGATION.

356
00:22:21,144 --> 00:22:23,046
>> WHEN CASH WAS INSTALLED AS
CHIEF OF STAFF TO MILLER, I

357
00:22:23,146 --> 00:22:27,651
THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT,
WELL, THERE'S THE PUPPETMASTER.

358
00:22:27,751 --> 00:22:32,154
>> HOW YOU'RE PERCEIVED IN THE
MEDIA AT TIMES IS, I MEAN YOU'VE

359
00:22:32,255 --> 00:22:34,723
BEEN CALLED A LOT OF NAMES.
WHAT IS IT ABOUT YOU THAT YOU

360
00:22:34,824 --> 00:22:37,326
THINK PROVOKES THAT KIND OF A
REACTION?

361
00:22:37,427 --> 00:22:39,328
>> I DON'T KNOW.
PERSONALLY, SERVING AS A PUBLIC

362
00:22:39,429 --> 00:22:42,664
DEFENDER FOR SO MANY YEARS, ALL
I TELL PEOPLE IS I'VE BEEN

363
00:22:42,766 --> 00:22:44,867
CALLED FAR WORSE BY MUCH BETTER.

364
00:22:44,968 --> 00:22:48,270
>> EVEN THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH
HIS POLITICS RECOGNIZE HIS

365
00:22:48,371 --> 00:22:49,506
HISTORIC RISE.

366
00:22:49,605 --> 00:22:51,874
>> YOU ARE TALKING TO A BROWN
GUY WHO IS AN INDIAN-AMERICAN

367
00:22:51,973 --> 00:22:55,544
WHO IS THE FIRST INDIAN-AMERICAN
CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE DEPARTMENT

368
00:22:55,643 --> 00:22:58,680
OF DEFENSE, THE FIRST MINORITY
TO BE THE PRINCIPAL DEPUTY AT

369
00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:02,785
THE OFFICER OF THE DIRECTOR OF
NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, HEAD OF

370
00:23:02,884 --> 00:23:04,053
COUNTERTERRORISM IN ANY WHITE
HOUSE.

371
00:23:04,152 --> 00:23:07,056
I DIDN'T TAKE THE ROLES TO BE
THE FIRST MINORITY TO DO IT BUT

372
00:23:07,155 --> 00:23:10,159
IT'S PRETTY FRICKIN' COOL THAT I
WAS.

373
00:23:10,258 --> 00:23:14,363
>> THE TIMING OF WHEN YOU GUYS
CAME IN, CAN YOU UNDERSTAND WHY

374
00:23:14,462 --> 00:23:18,966
THERE WAS SOME EYEBROWS RAISED,
GIVEN THE CONTEXTS, WHATEVER, A

375
00:23:19,066 --> 00:23:21,602
FEW DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION,
THIS LOOKS A LITTLE SKETCHY.

376
00:23:21,701 --> 00:23:24,905
>> YES, THAT'S FOR EVERYBODY
ELSE TO HAVE THEIR OPINION ON.

377
00:23:25,006 --> 00:23:26,941
>> THE PRESIDENT IS CONTESTING
THE RESULT.

378
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:27,842
>> UM-HUM.

379
00:23:28,142 --> 00:23:30,277
>> CLAIMING VICTORY.
I REPORTED ON SITUATIONS LIKE

380
00:23:30,377 --> 00:23:35,149
THAT IN OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND
THE WORLD AND IT DOESN'T USUALLY

381
00:23:35,248 --> 00:23:35,950
END WELL.

382
00:23:36,450 --> 00:23:39,618
>> SURE, THAT'S A POLITICAL LENS
YOU'RE LOOKING THROUGH.

383
00:23:39,719 --> 00:23:42,255
>> IT'S A HUMAN LENS, LIKE
THAT'S WHAT HALF THE COUNTRY

384
00:23:42,354 --> 00:23:42,823
WAS --

385
00:23:43,556 --> 00:23:48,595
>> SURE, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S NOT
THE LENS I HAD THE ROLE OF

386
00:23:48,694 --> 00:23:50,831
LOOKING THROUGH OF ANY COMMANDER
IN CHIEF, ENTITLED TO HIS

387
00:23:50,931 --> 00:23:54,768
CABINET AT THE TIME HE WANTS IT.
BUT MY JOB WAS THE MISSION.

388
00:23:54,867 --> 00:23:56,836
IT'S REALLY SIMPLE.
WE HAD A DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

389
00:23:56,937 --> 00:23:59,972
TO RUN SO THAT'S WHAT WE WENT
AND DID.

390
00:24:00,073 --> 00:24:03,042
>> TAKE US BACK TO JANUARY 6th.

391
00:24:03,142 --> 00:24:03,976
>> OKAY.

392
00:24:04,276 --> 00:24:07,011
>> PRETTY INTENSE DAY.
IT MUST HAVE CROSSED PEOPLE'S

393
00:24:07,113 --> 00:24:09,848
MINDS THAT THERE COULD BE A
SITUATION THAT WAS ALSO

394
00:24:09,949 --> 00:24:13,184
UNPRECEDENTED IN TERMS OF WHAT
THE ORDERS MIGHT BE FROM THE

395
00:24:13,285 --> 00:24:14,319
WHITE HOUSE.

396
00:24:14,620 --> 00:24:18,289
>> DIDN'T CROSS MINE, BECAUSE I
HAD OPERATED UNDER THE NATIONAL

397
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:21,626
COMMAND AUTHORITY, AND I NEVER
FOUND FAULT WITH THE CHAIN OF

398
00:24:21,727 --> 00:24:24,697
COMMAND IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.
IT WORKED THE WAY IT NEEDED TO

399
00:24:24,796 --> 00:24:27,565
WORK WHEN IT NEEDED TO WORK.

400
00:24:27,664 --> 00:24:31,635
>> BUT MILLER WAS CLEARLY UNEASY
WITH HOW THINGS PLAYED OUT ON

401
00:24:31,736 --> 00:24:33,304
JANUARY 6th.
DID YOU LISTEN TO THE

402
00:24:33,403 --> 00:24:34,706
PRESIDENT'S SPEECH IN THE
MORNING?

403
00:24:34,806 --> 00:24:38,075
WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF IT WHEN YOU
HEARD THE KINDS OF THINGS HE WAS

404
00:24:38,175 --> 00:24:38,977
SAYING?

405
00:24:39,076 --> 00:24:40,010
>> CONCERNING.

406
00:24:40,245 --> 00:24:44,449
>> WHEN YOU HEARD HIM SAYING,
WE'RE GOING TO WALK DOWN

407
00:24:44,548 --> 00:24:47,352
PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE AND TAKE OUR
COUNTRY BACK, THAT WAS WHAT WAS

408
00:24:47,451 --> 00:24:48,353
CONCERNING TO YOU?

409
00:24:48,452 --> 00:24:51,587
>> SURE, YEAH.
BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, THERE HAD

410
00:24:51,688 --> 00:24:55,392
BEEN A LOT OF RHETORIC SPEWED
OVER THE PREVIOUS BUNCH OF

411
00:24:55,491 --> 00:24:56,593
YEARS.

412
00:24:56,692 --> 00:25:00,229
>> BUT ON THIS DAY, MORE THAN
ANY OTHER, WHEN THE VOTE IS

413
00:25:00,329 --> 00:25:05,035
BEING CERTIFIED IN CONGRESS,
THAT MUST HAVE SET ALARM BELLS

414
00:25:05,134 --> 00:25:05,902
RINGING IN YOUR HEAD.

415
00:25:06,002 --> 00:25:06,769
>> YES.

416
00:25:07,171 --> 00:25:09,338
>> DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT
WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT

417
00:25:09,439 --> 00:25:10,440
HAPPENED ON THE OF HAPPENED ON
THE 6th?

418
00:25:10,540 --> 00:25:12,476
>> I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT SEEMS
CAUSE AND EFFECT, YES.

419
00:25:12,575 --> 00:25:16,278
THE QUESTION IS, WOULD ANYBODY
HAVE MARCHED ON THE CAPITOL AND

420
00:25:16,379 --> 00:25:19,114
OVERRUN THE CAPITOL WITHOUT THE
PRESIDENT'S SPEECH?

421
00:25:19,214 --> 00:25:24,487
I THINK IT'S PRETTY MUCH
DEFINITIVE THAT WOULDN'T HAVE

422
00:25:24,586 --> 00:25:29,624
HAPPENED, SO YES.
THE QUESTION IS, DID HE KNOW

423
00:25:29,725 --> 00:25:33,629
THAT HE WAS ENRAGING THE CROWD
TO DO THAT?

424
00:25:33,729 --> 00:25:34,864
I DON'T KNOW.

425
00:25:34,963 --> 00:25:39,166
>> THE DELAY FOR THE NATIONAL
GUARD, WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO

426
00:25:39,267 --> 00:25:43,637
THOSE THAT SAY, WELL, THIS
SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED QUICKER OR

427
00:25:43,738 --> 00:25:46,040
COULD IT HAVE BEEN HANDLED
BETTER?

428
00:25:46,141 --> 00:25:47,976
>> IT COMES BACK TO
UNDERSTANDING HOW THE MILITARY

429
00:25:48,075 --> 00:25:49,443
WORKS.
THIS ISN'T A VIDEO GAME.

430
00:25:49,544 --> 00:25:54,114
IT'S NOT HALO.
IT'S NOT BLACK OPS: CALL TO

431
00:25:54,216 --> 00:25:54,649
DUTY.

432
00:25:55,517 --> 00:25:56,684
>> WHO DID YOU SPEAK TO FROM THE
WHITE HOUSE DURING THAT TIME?

433
00:25:56,785 --> 00:25:58,752
DID YOU SPEAK TO THE PRESIDENT?

434
00:25:58,853 --> 00:26:00,387
>> I DID NOT SPEAK TO THE
PRESIDENT ON THE 6th.

435
00:26:00,488 --> 00:26:04,458
>> DID YOU WORRY ABOUT
CONNECTING THE KIND OF ORDER?

436
00:26:04,557 --> 00:26:05,292
>> NO.

437
00:26:05,392 --> 00:26:07,595
>> WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU DID?

438
00:26:07,694 --> 00:26:09,296
>> SPECULATIVE.

439
00:26:09,395 --> 00:26:14,434
>> YOU WERE THE GUY IN THE
POSITION AND SO WHAT YOU HAVE TO

440
00:26:14,535 --> 00:26:15,702
SAY ABOUT THAT MATTERS.

441
00:26:15,803 --> 00:26:24,310
>> I CAN'T IMAGINE ANY SITUATION
WHERE THE ARMED FORCES OF THE

442
00:26:24,411 --> 00:26:28,347
UNITED STATES WOULD ABIDE BY AN
ILLEGAL ORDER.

443
00:26:28,448 --> 00:26:30,783
>> WHAT IF IT COMES FROM THE
PRESIDENT?

444
00:26:30,883 --> 00:26:34,152
>> IF IT'S ANTITHETICAL TO THE
CONSTITUTION OR THE UNIFORM CODE

445
00:26:34,254 --> 00:26:36,889
OF MILITARY JUSTICE, IT'S AN
ILLEGAL ORDER AND YOU DON'T

446
00:26:36,989 --> 00:26:37,690
FOLLOW IT.

447
00:26:38,223 --> 00:26:40,893
>> SO IT'S KIND OF AN INDIVIDUAL
CHOICE FROM EACH SOLDIER?

448
00:26:40,993 --> 00:26:43,363
>> IT'S MORE INSTITUTIONAL IN
THAT REGARD.

449
00:26:43,462 --> 00:26:49,133
I MEAN, TO HAVE A PERFECT STORM
WHERE AN ORDER WAS GIVEN TO

450
00:26:49,233 --> 00:26:52,903
EXECUTE A MILITARY COUP IS NOT
POSSIBLE IN THE UNITED STATES

451
00:26:53,005 --> 00:26:54,206
MILITARY RIGHT NOW.

452
00:26:54,306 --> 00:26:58,610
>> AND THIS SEEMS LIKE FROM THE
OUTSIDE CERTAINLY TO THE REST OF

453
00:26:58,710 --> 00:27:03,081
THE WORLD TO BE AS CLOSE AS THIS
COUNTRY HAS GOT.

454
00:27:03,181 --> 00:27:08,819
>> I THINK THAT'S JUST COMPLETE
HYPERBOLE.

455
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,324
>> WHAT DO WE NEED TO BE
AWARE 1/2 THAT

456
00:27:12,423 --> 00:27:13,556
AWARE 1/2AWARE
IN THAT REGARD?

457
00:27:13,658 --> 00:27:15,726
>> HOW MUCH STRESS AND STRAIN
CAN BE PUT ON THE INSTITUTIONS

458
00:27:15,825 --> 00:27:21,632
IS KIND OF WHAT I'M HEARING YOU
ASK, AND WE FOUGHT A CIVIL WAR

459
00:27:21,731 --> 00:27:25,536
OVER THIS ONCE.
THE THING S LET'S NOT DO IT

460
00:27:25,635 --> 00:27:28,338
AGAIN.
[ CHANTS OF "USA" ]

461
00:27:28,439 --> 00:27:31,875
>> DO YOU MISS ME YET?
DO YOU MISS ME?

462
00:27:31,976 --> 00:27:35,680
WE WENT THROUGH A JOURNEY LIKE
NOBODY ELSE, AND IT IS FAR FROM

463
00:27:35,779 --> 00:27:42,652
BEING OVER.
WHO KNOWS?

464
00:27:42,751 --> 00:27:49,959
I MAY EVEN DECIDE TO BEAT THEM
FOR A THIRD TIME, OKAY?

465
00:27:50,059 --> 00:27:53,262
>> PEACEFUL TRANSITIONS OF
POWER, THAT'S WHAT OUR DEMOCRACY

466
00:27:53,363 --> 00:27:56,932
IS FOUNDED ON.
THE LOSER SAYS THE COUNTRY HAS

467
00:27:57,033 --> 00:28:01,202
TO PULL TOGETHER, AND YOU COME
TOGETHER.

468
00:28:01,303 --> 00:28:03,806
PEACEFUL TRANSITIONS OF POWER
ARE THE KEY AND THEY MUST

469
00:28:03,905 --> 00:28:07,442
HAPPEN, BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T,
YOUR DEMOCRACY IS DOOMED, AND

470
00:28:07,575 --> 00:28:07,643
THERE

471
00:28:07,643 --> 00:28:07,675
THERE IS

472
00:28:07,675 --> 00:28:14,415
THERE IS NO