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dramatic tense music

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We're in Atlanta, where over 40   
 activists have been charged with

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domestic terrorism.

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When I first got arrested,    
      [chuckling] I was just like,

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"There's no fucking way; 
          this has to be a joke."

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[crowd chanting]

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Setting fire to a police car   
      and flying a plane into the

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World Trade Center --             
 they don't seem equal.

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Do you feel like there's some   
     sort of political motivation

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-behind it all?           
           -Absolutely.

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Hundred percent.

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[Belkis VO] He was a terrorist?!

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He deserved his death?!

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Somebody answer to me.

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[Isobel VO] According to      
     Ukrainian government figures,

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as many as 19,000 Ukrainian    
      children have been illegally

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deported to Russia.

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[Isobel] And you?

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[Isobel VO] The people running 
     this camp are saying that this

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is not about brainwashing kids.

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[Isobel] This is you         
    wearing a military uniform.

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[Isobel VO] There are       
     reasonably grounds to believe

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that you bear           
        criminal responsibility.

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Are you a war criminal?

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[laughs]

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dramatic theme music

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[shouting]

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Hoorah!

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[blasts]

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sparse tense music

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[softly] Fuck,           
    there's cop cars everywhere!

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We're in Atlanta, where,       
     over the last six months,

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over 40 activists have been     
     arrested and charged with

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domestic terrorism while      
     protesting the development

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of a large police training      
    facility here in the woods.

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[Vegas VO] In 2021, activists   
      descended on the site of a

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newly-announced police training   
      facility they argued would

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destroy a critical city forest.

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The protests were         
          initially peaceful,

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but soon grew confrontational.

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Police identified protestors   
          in the encampment as

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"domestic terrorist suspects"   
       and "extremely violent."

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During a raid in January, police 
      alleged one activist shot at

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them, and they responded     
        with overwhelming force.

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[gunfire]

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26-year-old activist       
       Manuel Esteban Páez Terán,

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who went by the          
           name "Tortuguita,"

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died from 57 gunshot wounds.

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An independent autopsy suggested 
      that the activist was killed

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sitting cross-legged,       
      with their hands in the air.

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[crowd] [chanting]          
      Viva, viva, Tortuguita!

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Viva, viva, Tortuguita!

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Viva, viva, Tortuguita!

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[Belkis] He was a terrorist?!

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He deserved his death?!

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Somebody answer to me.

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Somebody answer to me.

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[Vegas VO] After          
          Tortuguita's death,

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clashes with police led to    
       dozens of protestors being

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charged with domestic terrorism,

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fueling a debate over what     
      separates political dissent

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from terrorism in         
          the eyes of the law.

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tense music

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For Vienna Forrest, the charges   
      appeared to indiscriminate.

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At that time, they were just    
   grabbing anyone they could and

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charged us all           
        with the same thing.

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What is it that they're 
           alleging that you did?

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They are alleging I threw         
     fireworks and rocks

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at EMS workers with         
         the fire station,

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as well as threw a heavy object   
    at a moving police cruiser,

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causing visible damage.

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soft tense music

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When I first got arrested,     
    [chuckling] I was just like,

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"There's no fucking way; 
          this has to be a joke."

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I was just...

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You were expecting         
 trespassing, and then it said...

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-[Vienna] Yeah.           
           -"Terrorism?"

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What has your attorney            
 been telling you about

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what you're facing?

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It's a lot to take in, 'cause   
    if you look at all my charges'

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max sentencing, I'm looking 
       at most 60 years in prison.

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-60 years?              
        -[Vienna] 60 years.

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We've never harmed anyone, 
        we've never killed anyone.

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They're accusing us of    
        violence against property.

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[Vegas VO] In 2017, Georgia    
 expanded its domestic terrorism

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law after the Dylann Roof     
        shooting in neighboring

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South Carolina.

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This resulted in one of the    
     broadest statutes of its kind

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in the country.

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Now, anyone can be considered a   
 terrorist for the destruction of

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critical infrastructure      
           during a protest,

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which can include anything    
      from the national power grid

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to a bulldozer used        
          by the government.

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These terrorism          
       charges enhance sentences,

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and can come with up       
         to 35 years in prison.

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curious music

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We're on our way to talk      
      to the District Attorney

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of DeKalb County.

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Now, if Vienna and the       
   other forest protestors do get

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indicted on charges         
       of domestic terrorism,

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it'll be the DA's job to      
      convince the jury that they

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deserve as much as 35 years in 
     prison for what they've done.

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This law has been criticized      
    by several civil rights

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organizations throughout        
 the country who are concerned

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that it can limit First       
 Amendment rights and it can have

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a chilling effect on             
 activism and protests.

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What would you say to that?

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We're not talking       
       about people holding signs,

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we're talking about         
        potentially people

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throwing incendiary devices,    
 rocks, setting things on fire...

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There's a huge           
   distinction between those two.

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Do you have to                 
 actually cause harm?

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I'm just trying to figure out    
 where this line that delineates

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where something             
 crosses over into terrorism.

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It's not just about   
              an event and people,

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it's about "Is this         
        felonious act aimed

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specifically to           
        cause economic loss,

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or destroy a government facility 
    or critical infrastructure?"

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And we're seeing that happen in   
 various place over the country.

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[blast]

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[Vegas VO] But this law      
       wasn't intended to address

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property damage.

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What it was designed to do is   
     combat ideologically-motivated

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violence, which is on       
          the rise in the US,

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especially from the Far-Right.

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[gunfire]

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A shooter opened fire at      
      a mall in Allen, Texas.

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[woman VO] At least eight     
        to ten people are dead

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in a shooting at a         
         Pittsburgh synagogue.

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[man VO] The suspect allegedly 
      posted a 180-page manifesto

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online, filled with        
      white supremacist ideology.

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[Vegas VO] More and more states   
 are now coming up with their own

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terrorism statutes.

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25 states and DC now have     
       domestic terrorism laws.

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But the ACLU is sounding the   
 alarm about potential government

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overreach in the use       
           of these statutes.

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Don't we need laws for the     
   things that are so definitely,

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so clearly terrorism?

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Every single one of            
 those laws contains fairly

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problematic language with         
   respect to what counts

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as "terrorism,"

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and I think what's         
        happening in Georgia

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is a real example of how          
 these laws can go wrong.

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Terrorism is             
 essentially a political crime.

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9/11 happens, and          
         all of a sudden,

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the threat becomes         
        brown Muslim people.

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So terrorism can reflect          
 what exists at the time,

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and it's subject                  
 to manipulation.

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And I think that's         
      what we're seeing today.

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[Vegas VO] While there are     
     plenty of examples of extreme

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violence, the label        
      "terrorism" often gets used

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as a political tool.

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No part of the country has seen   
 more politically-charged anger

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than the Pacific Northwest.

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The Washington legislature    
      introduced a bill that would

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create a domestic         
     violence extremism commission

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to strengthen the         
       state's ability to respond

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to domestic terror.

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So we've traveled to        
       the Pacific Northwest.

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We're here to meet a patriot   
      group that's concerned that

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these new laws might       
          get them labeled as

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"domestic terrorists."

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[Vegas VO] Matt Marshall is the   
 founder of the Washington State

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Three Percenters, who have    
       a history of showing up at

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protests with guns.

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He took us around the       
         group's weekend camp.

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Who here is medically trained?

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We've got a handful.

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All right.

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If I'm gonna sew up my       
     own daughter right here --

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she's got these wounds            
    laying everywhere,

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looking awful right now --

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first thing you do,               
      tourniquet,

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as far up as you can get.

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This is gonna bleed         
            everywhere,

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as is the fact           
        she's missing a leg.

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You can go lie down.

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[Vegas] So tell me         
         about your group.

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What are you guys              
 doing here this weekend?

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Well, this weekend's      
      just kind of a get-together,

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but we're also doing some      
      basic prepping classes.

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To prepare to               
 overthrow the government?

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No.

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No, that's not quite    
          what we're doing at all.

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[chuckling] What is it?           
    What are you doing?

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No, we're just...

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You know, our pillars are      
     "Prepare, support, unite,"

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and then "defend."

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"Defend" is our          
          last of our pillars.

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"Prepare" -- that's        
     really what we're working on.

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I wouldn't drink the first      
 amount that came through there,

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'cause you're gonna have       
 some charcoal come through it.

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00:09:01,082 --> 00:09:03,501
[Vegas VO] The vibes here     
      were a bit more summer camp

194
00:09:03,543 --> 00:09:05,127
than commando.

195
00:09:05,169 --> 00:09:06,546
[man] See that gold?

196
00:09:06,587 --> 00:09:08,714
Tiny little flake right here.

197
00:09:11,342 --> 00:09:13,344
These enhanced charges      
        like domestic terrorism,

198
00:09:13,385 --> 00:09:15,888
do you feel like there's some 
     sort of political motivation

199
00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:16,847
-behind it all?           
           -Absolutely.

200
00:09:16,889 --> 00:09:18,432
-Absolutely.             
         -Hundred percent.

201
00:09:18,474 --> 00:09:21,394
House Bill 1333 was a Washington 
   State domestic terrorism bill,

202
00:09:21,435 --> 00:09:24,897
where they said that we       
      are domestic extremists,

203
00:09:24,939 --> 00:09:28,776
and our ability to influence      
     people and raise money

204
00:09:28,818 --> 00:09:30,903
was a concern to the government.

205
00:09:30,945 --> 00:09:34,532
The domestic       
             terrorist laws are...

206
00:09:34,574 --> 00:09:39,537
being used as a way to            
 go after political...

207
00:09:39,579 --> 00:09:40,788
rivals.

208
00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:43,749
They're gonna be used to put      
 a magnifying glass over one

209
00:09:43,791 --> 00:09:46,377
political side and          
       ignore the other one,

210
00:09:46,419 --> 00:09:47,753
as they've already done.

211
00:09:47,795 --> 00:09:51,007
Well, this is interesting,    
    because the people in Atlanta,

212
00:09:51,048 --> 00:09:53,759
of course, are       
           pretty far on the left,

213
00:09:53,801 --> 00:09:55,595
and they've told   
                us the same thing,

214
00:09:55,636 --> 00:09:57,054
just the opposite.

215
00:09:57,096 --> 00:09:59,599
Does it make you at all       
 uncomfortable that large groups

216
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,227
of protestors can be      
       rounded up and charged with

217
00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:04,770
domestic terrorism?

218
00:10:04,812 --> 00:10:06,606
That's what's scary about these   
   laws is they've already been

219
00:10:06,647 --> 00:10:08,774
doing this going          
       after their opponents,

220
00:10:08,816 --> 00:10:11,611
and I think that's the case of 
     what's happening in Georgia.

221
00:10:11,652 --> 00:10:14,196
So if these laws go through,

222
00:10:14,238 --> 00:10:16,907
it's just gonna be          
     amplified that much more,

223
00:10:16,949 --> 00:10:19,619
and it's gonna be          
        worse for everybody.

224
00:10:19,660 --> 00:10:21,996
[Vegas VO] The rise of      
 extremist violence within the US

225
00:10:22,038 --> 00:10:24,290
demands a forceful response.

226
00:10:24,332 --> 00:10:27,251
But when we use the word      
     "terrorist" about ideological

227
00:10:27,293 --> 00:10:30,921
or political opponents,      
        the impact is profound,

228
00:10:30,963 --> 00:10:33,299
and the environmental       
        movement around Cop City

229
00:10:33,341 --> 00:10:35,468
is feeling the weight of that.

230
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:37,470
[raining pouring]

231
00:10:37,511 --> 00:10:39,513
melancholy music

232
00:10:39,555 --> 00:10:43,517
They attack the           
    forest time and time again!

233
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,311
Then, a loved one was killed:

234
00:10:45,353 --> 00:10:48,856
Manuel "Tortuguita" Páez Terán.

235
00:10:48,898 --> 00:10:51,525
We've occupied,           
       called in and marched,

236
00:10:51,567 --> 00:10:54,570
wrote letters and          
      shouted in the streets!

237
00:10:54,945 --> 00:10:58,074
No Copy City here and anywhere!

238
00:10:58,115 --> 00:11:02,745
[cheers]

239
00:11:09,335 --> 00:11:10,920
Over there is the camp,

240
00:11:10,961 --> 00:11:14,090
and it was the place        
        that he was killed.

241
00:11:14,131 --> 00:11:15,675
Over there.

242
00:11:18,302 --> 00:11:20,137
[Daniel VO] There's a       
          reason why they use

243
00:11:20,179 --> 00:11:21,847
"domestic terrorism;"       
        it's because they can't

244
00:11:21,889 --> 00:11:23,140
prove anything.

245
00:11:23,182 --> 00:11:27,853
So in order to incite fear,    
            they have to...

246
00:11:27,895 --> 00:11:30,314
disregard the rules.

247
00:11:30,356 --> 00:11:33,984
And that's why it's so scary.

248
00:11:41,909 --> 00:11:46,956
tense theme music

249
00:11:47,915 --> 00:11:52,962
eerie tense music

250
00:12:04,098 --> 00:12:08,227
So this is what is left       
      of the boarding school.

251
00:12:10,771 --> 00:12:11,897
Whoa.

252
00:12:11,939 --> 00:12:14,900
It feels very eerie in here now.

253
00:12:14,942 --> 00:12:16,902
We're here in the town        
      of Kupyansk in Ukraine,

254
00:12:16,944 --> 00:12:19,321
which was occupied          
     early on by the Russians,

255
00:12:19,363 --> 00:12:21,907
since been taken           
      back by the Ukrainians.

256
00:12:21,949 --> 00:12:23,075
And we're inside a         
          boarding school,

257
00:12:23,117 --> 00:12:26,370
which you can see has        
    just been bombed to pieces.

258
00:12:26,412 --> 00:12:29,039
Back in September, when       
      the school year started,

259
00:12:29,081 --> 00:12:32,918
over a dozen Ukrainian        
     kids were taken from here

260
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,795
to Russian-held territory.

261
00:12:36,797 --> 00:12:39,592
[Isobel VO] Mykola Syzonov    
       was here on September 8th,

262
00:12:39,633 --> 00:12:43,429
when at 1:35 PM, around a     
     dozen armed soldiers turned up

263
00:12:43,471 --> 00:12:44,805
in buses.

264
00:12:56,442 --> 00:12:57,777
tense strings

265
00:12:57,818 --> 00:12:59,987
[Isobel VO] What happened     
        here in Kupyansk is no

266
00:13:00,029 --> 00:13:01,322
freak incident.

267
00:13:01,363 --> 00:13:04,950
Moscow has been accused of    
       stealing 19,000 Ukrainian

268
00:13:04,992 --> 00:13:07,453
children from war-torn areas

269
00:13:07,495 --> 00:13:10,623
and illegally deporting      
            them to Russia.

270
00:13:10,664 --> 00:13:13,793
It's part of what could be one 
 of the most egregious war crimes

271
00:13:13,834 --> 00:13:16,003
committed to date.

272
00:13:16,295 --> 00:13:18,964
President Vladimir Putin and   
      his Children's Commissioner

273
00:13:19,006 --> 00:13:22,593
Maria Lvova-Belova are accused 
      of attempting to ethnically

274
00:13:22,635 --> 00:13:25,971
cleanse a generation       
          of young Ukrainians.

275
00:13:26,013 --> 00:13:27,973
The International Criminal    
     Court has now issued an arrest

276
00:13:28,015 --> 00:13:29,975
warrant for Russian        
       President Vladimir Putin,

277
00:13:30,017 --> 00:13:32,895
accusing him of                
 committing war crimes.

278
00:13:32,937 --> 00:13:35,314
[man] The court alleges       
      Putin bears individual

279
00:13:35,356 --> 00:13:38,984
responsibility for the unlawful   
     transfer of children from

280
00:13:39,026 --> 00:13:42,029
occupied areas of          
         Ukraine to Russia.

281
00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:44,824
[Isobel VO] CCTV from an     
     orphanage in occupied Southern

282
00:13:44,865 --> 00:13:47,993
Ukraine shows chilling footage 
     of Russian soldiers searching

283
00:13:48,035 --> 00:13:50,663
the building for Ukrainian kids.

284
00:13:50,704 --> 00:13:53,207
But that's not what the      
       Russian public are seeing.

285
00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:57,211
On Russian state media, smiling, 
       joyful Ukrainian children

286
00:13:57,253 --> 00:14:01,006
are seen thanking Russian     
 soldiers for saving their lives.

287
00:14:10,057 --> 00:14:12,017
[Isobel VO] To find out      
 what's really happening to these

288
00:14:12,059 --> 00:14:15,187
children, we gained        
      unprecedented access to both

289
00:14:15,229 --> 00:14:16,856
sides of this conflict.

290
00:14:16,897 --> 00:14:19,483
We are actually in         
         Russia right now,

291
00:14:19,525 --> 00:14:21,694
and to our massive surprise,     
   when we requested to come and

292
00:14:21,735 --> 00:14:23,863
meet these Ukrainian         
      children for ourselves,

293
00:14:23,904 --> 00:14:25,322
the Russian             
      government approved it.

294
00:14:25,364 --> 00:14:30,369
eerie ominous music

295
00:14:36,584 --> 00:14:39,545
[Isobel] How many of          
 these kids are from Ukraine?

296
00:14:40,963 --> 00:14:42,006
[Isobel] Wow.

297
00:14:45,593 --> 00:14:48,512
[Isobel VO] Veda Livadonova    
      is a Russian foster mother.

298
00:14:48,554 --> 00:14:52,558
Six of the 25 children in her   
       care are recent arrivals

299
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,518
from Ukraine.

300
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,105
The kids appeared in this report 
     on Russian state TV channel 1,

301
00:14:58,147 --> 00:15:00,024
when they were brought all    
      the way from an orphanage in

302
00:15:00,065 --> 00:15:02,902
Russian-occupied          
      Donetsk to Nizhny Novgorod,

303
00:15:02,943 --> 00:15:05,696
seven hours east of Moscow.

304
00:15:05,738 --> 00:15:07,239
How do you have the    
           resources for all this?

305
00:15:07,281 --> 00:15:08,908
Does the government help you?

306
00:15:13,704 --> 00:15:16,707
[Isobel VO] Livadonova receives   
 1,000 dollars a month for each

307
00:15:16,749 --> 00:15:18,083
child she fosters.

308
00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:20,753
She's also receiving government   
        contributions to build

309
00:15:20,794 --> 00:15:22,796
her new home.

310
00:15:23,339 --> 00:15:25,132
[Isobel] So what's your      
       name and how old are you?

311
00:15:29,135 --> 00:15:30,012
[Isobel] And you?

312
00:15:30,971 --> 00:15:32,765
[Isobel] Do you like it here?

313
00:15:33,974 --> 00:15:36,101
I saw the video of you    
         coming here on the train.

314
00:15:36,143 --> 00:15:38,604
It seemed like a    
              really long journey.

315
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:57,122
[Isobel] You must have been     
 very brave to come all that way.

316
00:15:57,164 --> 00:16:00,417
Do you remember anything about 
    the place that you came from?

317
00:16:04,171 --> 00:16:07,508
deep ominous music

318
00:16:07,549 --> 00:16:10,510
How do you see the         
       conflict at the moment

319
00:16:10,552 --> 00:16:13,597
between Ukraine and Russia 
        impacting children's lives

320
00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:15,099
right now?

321
00:16:23,023 --> 00:16:26,402
Some of these kids must have    
    been through very traumatic

322
00:16:26,443 --> 00:16:27,444
experiences.

323
00:16:27,486 --> 00:16:29,613
Do they not belong in Ukraine?

324
00:16:29,655 --> 00:16:32,616
Is it not fair to say that     
 these kids have essentially been

325
00:16:32,658 --> 00:16:34,660
stolen from a country?

326
00:16:49,633 --> 00:16:51,635
[Isobel VO] Though Livadonova   
     claims to be acting in their

327
00:16:51,677 --> 00:16:54,847
best interests, the kids in    
      her care have been illegally

328
00:16:54,887 --> 00:16:57,850
deported, just like the      
      thousands of other Ukrainian

329
00:16:57,891 --> 00:17:01,186
children who are being brought 
      to repurposed summer camps.

330
00:17:01,228 --> 00:17:03,397
These stretch from         
        Russian-occupied Crimea

331
00:17:03,439 --> 00:17:06,233
all the way to          
          far-eastern Siberia.

332
00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:08,652
According to a report       
          by Yale University,

333
00:17:08,694 --> 00:17:11,030
many children have been      
 forced to spend months in these

334
00:17:11,071 --> 00:17:14,616
facilities, without        
        their parents' consent.

335
00:17:14,658 --> 00:17:17,870
This is the first time a Western 
 crew has been allowed inside one

336
00:17:17,911 --> 00:17:20,247
of these camps.

337
00:17:20,289 --> 00:17:23,208
Several hundred Ukrainian     
 children have been brought here

338
00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:27,046
from newly-occupied areas for   
 what Russia says is three weeks'

339
00:17:27,087 --> 00:17:29,757
respite from the war.

340
00:17:43,687 --> 00:17:46,065
[Isobel] It's a real mix of     
 people from all different areas.

341
00:17:46,106 --> 00:17:48,067
How does it feel           
        being all together?

342
00:17:52,946 --> 00:17:54,656
[Isobel VO] Although they     
 seemed to be having a good time,

343
00:17:54,698 --> 00:17:57,534
we were only allowed to speak    
 with kids who were pre-approved

344
00:17:57,576 --> 00:17:59,912
by camp managers.

345
00:18:12,091 --> 00:18:13,425
It's interesting           
         'cause, you know,

346
00:18:13,467 --> 00:18:16,136
the people running this camp are 
   saying that this is not about

347
00:18:16,178 --> 00:18:18,055
brainwashing kids at all,

348
00:18:18,097 --> 00:18:20,516
but it's about rehabilitating    
      them and helping them.

349
00:18:20,557 --> 00:18:22,851
But at the same time, you know,   
 there is a Russification going

350
00:18:22,893 --> 00:18:24,436
on here, and you         
           can see that with,

351
00:18:24,478 --> 00:18:27,064
you know, kids talking very    
     enthusiastically about Russia,

352
00:18:27,106 --> 00:18:29,149
clearly we're only allowed     
      to speak to certain people,

353
00:18:29,191 --> 00:18:32,152
we are getting very        
          heavily monitored.

354
00:18:32,194 --> 00:18:32,945
[Isobel VO] We were        
           taken to the gym,

355
00:18:32,986 --> 00:18:36,281
where 17-year-old kids from    
      areas that were occupied by

356
00:18:36,323 --> 00:18:38,909
Russia last year         
          were waiting for us,

357
00:18:38,951 --> 00:18:42,371
as well as a government      
     minder, who filmed everything.

358
00:18:42,412 --> 00:18:45,916
Around the world, you         
 know, camps like this are very

359
00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:49,294
contentious and there's a lot    
 of accusations that the Russians

360
00:18:49,336 --> 00:18:52,172
have been stealing          
        Ukrainian children.

361
00:18:59,513 --> 00:19:02,141
Is there anything you've          
 learned since being here

362
00:19:02,182 --> 00:19:03,767
about Russia?

363
00:19:17,948 --> 00:19:21,201
Do you consider           
   yourself Ukrainian or Russian?

364
00:19:27,207 --> 00:19:28,792
Can't answer?

365
00:19:29,376 --> 00:19:30,335
Okay.

366
00:19:30,377 --> 00:19:31,962
Okay, I understand.

367
00:19:32,004 --> 00:19:33,922
Mariupol is where               
 you were born, right?

368
00:19:33,964 --> 00:19:38,969
I mean, did seeing it            
 get razed to the ground,

369
00:19:39,011 --> 00:19:40,846
did that...

370
00:19:40,888 --> 00:19:45,350
make you think differently      
 about Ukraine or about Russia?

371
00:19:45,392 --> 00:19:46,602
[man clears throat]

372
00:19:58,697 --> 00:20:02,201
So I can't ask           
    anything about the conflict?

373
00:20:04,912 --> 00:20:05,787
[Isobel] Okay.

374
00:20:05,829 --> 00:20:07,372
Um...

375
00:20:07,414 --> 00:20:08,373
Okay, thank you.

376
00:20:08,415 --> 00:20:09,625
Thank you very much         
        for talking with us.

377
00:20:09,666 --> 00:20:12,044
Thank you, guys,           
         we appreciate it.

378
00:20:14,922 --> 00:20:17,424
[Isobel VO] Clearly, any      
 questioning of Moscow's version

379
00:20:17,466 --> 00:20:20,385
of events was off-limits.

380
00:20:20,594 --> 00:20:24,097
The woman determining the fate    
 of Ukrainian children in Russia

381
00:20:24,139 --> 00:20:26,225
is Maria Lvova-Belova,

382
00:20:26,266 --> 00:20:29,853
Putin's trusted official in    
      charge of children's rights.

383
00:20:29,895 --> 00:20:31,855
She's slammed as a         
         child-snatcher by the

384
00:20:31,897 --> 00:20:33,440
international community.

385
00:20:33,482 --> 00:20:37,277
Last year, she lobbied Putin   
 for a change in the Russian law,

386
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:39,613
making it easier for Ukrainian 
          children to be given

387
00:20:39,655 --> 00:20:42,074
Russian passports.

388
00:20:42,115 --> 00:20:45,452
This has complicated the process 
      for Ukrainian family members

389
00:20:45,494 --> 00:20:47,496
to claim their kids back.

390
00:20:47,537 --> 00:20:50,499
But in Russia, she's       
       hailed as an angelic hero,

391
00:20:50,540 --> 00:20:52,501
rescuing abandoned children.

392
00:20:52,542 --> 00:20:54,670
She says she's fostered      
        a child from Mariupol,

393
00:20:54,711 --> 00:20:57,756
a city brutally          
     destroyed by the Russian army.

394
00:20:57,798 --> 00:21:01,426
Now, he makes regular       
     appearances on pro-Kremlin TV,

395
00:21:01,468 --> 00:21:04,721
like this report on        
      patriotic channel Tsargrad.

396
00:21:04,763 --> 00:21:07,849
We managed to secure an      
      exclusive sit-down interview

397
00:21:07,891 --> 00:21:10,102
with Maria Lvova-Belova.

398
00:21:10,143 --> 00:21:15,148
tense music

399
00:21:16,316 --> 00:21:19,111
Are these children being      
      used as propaganda tools

400
00:21:19,152 --> 00:21:20,404
by the Russian state?

401
00:21:37,546 --> 00:21:38,922
But can you       
             understand, you know,

402
00:21:38,964 --> 00:21:43,302
the argument that getting these 
   kids Russian citizenship could

403
00:21:43,343 --> 00:21:46,513
be seen as a form of wiping out 
   their identity and as a form of

404
00:21:46,555 --> 00:21:47,806
ethnic cleansing?

405
00:22:08,201 --> 00:22:10,203
Well, I-- I would say      
      it's a different situation--

406
00:22:11,455 --> 00:22:12,205
I would say it's a slightly 
       different situation when it

407
00:22:12,205 --> 00:22:15,167
comes to Russia and Ukraine     
 given that there's a very active

408
00:22:15,208 --> 00:22:16,668
conflict going on right now.

409
00:22:25,385 --> 00:22:28,180
You are accused of some   
          very serious war crimes.

410
00:22:28,221 --> 00:22:30,724
There are reasonable grounds to 
   believe that you bear criminal

411
00:22:30,766 --> 00:22:33,477
responsibility for illegally 
       deporting and transferring

412
00:22:33,518 --> 00:22:35,812
children from Ukraine to Russia.

413
00:22:35,854 --> 00:22:36,980
Are you a war criminal?

414
00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:38,523
[laughs]

415
00:23:02,589 --> 00:23:05,634
But the Convention also goes on 
   to say that if they need to be

416
00:23:05,675 --> 00:23:07,719
evacuated for safety reasons, 
       they should be held in a

417
00:23:07,761 --> 00:23:09,054
third-party country.

418
00:23:09,096 --> 00:23:10,430
Why wasn't that done?

419
00:23:32,661 --> 00:23:34,538
[Isobel VO] But          
           this is not true.

420
00:23:34,579 --> 00:23:37,582
Just one example is the 13    
        children who were taken

421
00:23:37,624 --> 00:23:39,084
from Kupyansk.

422
00:23:39,126 --> 00:23:42,254
They were unaccompanied when   
 they were illegally transferred,

423
00:23:42,295 --> 00:23:44,589
without their           
          parents' permission.

424
00:23:44,631 --> 00:23:48,427
But the charity Save Ukraine was 
 able to locate them at a school

425
00:23:48,468 --> 00:23:51,930
in Perevalsk, in          
      Russian-occupied territory.

426
00:23:51,972 --> 00:23:55,267
To get them back, parents have 
     to obtain travel documents and

427
00:23:55,308 --> 00:23:59,104
approvals from both sides,    
 before making a long and arduous

428
00:23:59,146 --> 00:24:02,607
journey via Poland and      
          Belarus into Russia

429
00:24:02,649 --> 00:24:04,651
and eventually to Perevalsk.

430
00:24:12,325 --> 00:24:13,910
[Isobel VO] The          
      Russian-occupied school they

431
00:24:13,952 --> 00:24:17,080
were sent to has a website,    
 which seems to show a curriculum

432
00:24:17,122 --> 00:24:20,459
focused on providing a      
      hyper-patriotic education --

433
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,712
far more than what        
          we saw in Litvinovo.

434
00:24:26,339 --> 00:24:28,633
[Isobel VO] Four of the      
 children are still waiting to be

435
00:24:28,675 --> 00:24:30,093
taken home.

436
00:24:30,135 --> 00:24:33,138
But Natalia Zhornyk        
      brought back her son Artyom

437
00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:34,890
in April.

438
00:24:39,978 --> 00:24:42,689
[Isobel] It must have felt 
         like such a relief after

439
00:24:42,731 --> 00:24:43,273
all those months.

440
00:24:43,273 --> 00:24:46,026
How did you feel     
             while you were there?

441
00:24:56,745 --> 00:25:00,874
We actually visited a     
        children's camp in Russia,

442
00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:05,253
and the government officials 
      who were showing us around,

443
00:25:05,295 --> 00:25:08,632
you know, showed us kids     
    that were singing and dancing,

444
00:25:08,673 --> 00:25:11,593
and kids who were seeming 
         to have a very good time.

445
00:25:11,635 --> 00:25:13,720
That doesn't sound like   
         that was your experience.

446
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:00,934
-[Isobel] This is Artyom?      
          -[Natalia] Da.

447
00:26:00,976 --> 00:26:05,564
Oh, wow, so this is you     
     wearing a military uniform...

448
00:26:05,605 --> 00:26:08,692
-with a Russian...         
         -[Natalia] Mm-hm.

449
00:26:08,733 --> 00:26:10,110
[Isobel] "Z" on it.

450
00:26:10,151 --> 00:26:11,945
And what was it you were    
       studying here when you were

451
00:26:11,987 --> 00:26:13,780
wearing this, Artyom?

452
00:26:38,305 --> 00:26:40,932
[Isobel VO] Of the thousands    
 of Ukrainian children Kyiv says

453
00:26:40,974 --> 00:26:44,394
have been taken to Russian     
     camps, schools, and families,

454
00:26:44,436 --> 00:26:47,772
only 371 have returned.

455
00:26:47,814 --> 00:26:50,775
Those are the ones lucky enough   
     to have parents who can come

456
00:26:50,817 --> 00:26:52,235
get them.

457
00:26:52,277 --> 00:26:55,488
Given that, you know, he'd     
     been gone for six months,

458
00:26:55,530 --> 00:26:57,699
did you notice     
               any changes in him?

459
00:27:33,943 --> 00:27:38,073
eerie ominous music

460
00:27:38,114 --> 00:27:43,161
dark moody music