- ♪♪ MTV ♪♪
- Erika and Jermaine have been talking for three years.
- He made me happy. He made me smile.
He was like, "If you move out here,
we definitely gonna be together."
- Shut the [bleep] up! - I told you.
[knocks]
- Ooh.
Whoa. - Who is that?
[dramatic music]
- I have something.
- Yo, Nev, if it's not $1,000,000,
don't take it out the bag. - Hey!
It's 2023.
I got you a pair. Look, come on.
Who knows when this will air?
But for us, this is our first episode of 2023.
- Happy New Year. - Happy New Year, everyone.
Yeah. - Wow.
- Not bad, right?
- It feels like I'm in 3D movie.
- Let's make 2023 the best year ever.
- Aw. [laughter]
Cheers. - All right.
We got an email. I think we should dive in.
- Let's go. - All right.
Subject, "I tried my best."
"Hello, Nev and Kamie. My name is Aaron.
I'm a truck driver out in Texas."
♪♪ I can't fake it anymore, I'm losing patience ♪♪
- "I'm writing to you because I'm concerned
for my sister Erika, who lives in New Orleans."
[upbeat music]
"She met a guy named Jermaine on social media
a few years ago, even though he lives in Los Angeles."
- Hmm. - Eh.
"In my single days, when I wanted a woman,
nothing would stop me from pursuing her."
Yes, that's--yeah, I've been saying that for years.
- Yeah, you say that. - "I'd call her on FaceTime.
"And if I couldn't go where my girl was, I'd fly her to me.
"So it doesn't make sense to me that Jermaine
"won't video chat with my sister.
"And when she told me he'd been to New Orleans
twice without meeting with her, it blew my mind."
Something is wrong with this guy.
- Yeah.
- ♪♪ I'm never tryna hold you back ♪♪
- "Told my sister I thought Jermaine was a catfish.
"She admitted she has some concerns, too,
"but she still hasn't dumped him.
"And recently, she kicked it up a notch
"and said she wants to move to LA.
"In fact, she's out there right now
checking out neighborhoods."
- It's escalated very quickly.
- "She says she's always wanted to live out there,
"but I think part of her wants to see
"where the relationship will go if they're in the same place.
"I want Erika to be happy.
"She's been through a lot and deserves someone special.
This guy isn't it."
- ♪♪ I can't tell you how this goes ♪♪
♪♪ But tell you how it turns out ♪♪
- "I'm hoping you guys can help my sister see some reason
"before she moves across the country
"for someone who doesn't exist.
Thank you, Aaron."
She's in LA, which is wild.
- She's here, but she still hasn't seen him, because--
- Well, we don't know that.
- We know that. - Probably.
- We know that. - All right.
Her brother Aaron gave us their numbers.
Let's give Aaron a call.
[line trilling]
- Yes, hello. Is this Aaron?
- Hey, Aaron, it's Nev. - And Kamie.
We have a truck full of catfish...
- That we need your help delivering.
- [laughs] - Are you driving right now?
[truck horn blares]
- Oh! - Oh!
- Oh, nice.
We just read your email about your sister Erika.
- And it does sound like this guy is--
- Fishy. - Fishy.
- Yeah.
- All right, well, let's just add her to this call.
Does she know you reached out to us?
- All right, I'm just gonna add her really fast.
[line trilling]
- Hey, is this Erika?
- This is Nev from the show "Catfish."
And I'm with my co-host Kamie.
And I have your brother Aaron on the phone here too.
- Aaron told us a little bit about your relationship
with Jermaine, hoping that maybe
we could help figure out who this guy is
and hopefully meet up with him.
So I just wanted to give you a call,
see what you thought about that.
- Right.
[laughter]
- OK, OK. - Thanks, Aaron.
- Hey, Erika. - Are you still there?
- Hopefully you're not mad.
- OK, and he told us you're in Los Angeles right now.
- Have you told Jermaine that you're in LA right now?
- What--what type of gig?
- Huh.
Well, the good news is you're in LA.
Are you free to meet up with us today?
- So this is perfect.
Text us where you are, and we'll head over.
- See you soon.
- Bye. - Bye.
- OK. Well, here we are.
Sunny LA. - Ugh.
Well, if she's got us out in the rain
and has herself out looking for homes in the rain,
he's got to be special. - Here is her Airbnb.
[doorbell chimes]
- Hello. - Hey.
- Hello, Erika. - Hey, whoa.
Are we at the right house?
I didn't know there was a fashion show happening.
- I like to dress up. - I didn't even dress up.
- All this in the house. Hi.
- Hi. - Good to meet you.
I'm Kamie. - I'm Erika.
Hi. Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you. - You look fly.
- Thank you. - From head to toe.
- You look nice.
- I like to take selfies, so I have to dress up all the time.
- The Selfie Queen. Aaron did tell us that.
- Yeah, I like to take selfies.
- Shall we? - Sure.
- We shall.
I still can't get over this look, Erika.
- I like to--
- Oh, thank you for bringing so much glamour to the show.
- I know, I like bling.
I've been showing off my makeup and stuff.
That's how I get my clients. - Oh.
- I make jewelry and bling stuff.
- Wow. Tell us about yourself.
We don't know anything. - Yes, please.
- I'm from New Orleans.
I do hair, nails, and makeup.
And I work in real estate.
- Are you a licensed agent? - Wow.
- Yeah, I'm a licensed agent. Licensed cosmetologist too.
- Hey. - Wow.
- I do a little bit of everything.
- Love it.
And any, like, long-term relationships?
- I was engaged before. - Oh.
- I was engaged for like a year.
We was together.
And then ever since then, I've been single.
- When was that? - That was in 2006.
- Mm. - It's been a while.
- So it's been a minute.
So how did you meet Jermaine?
- I had made a post, I guess, because I post
so many pictures.
And of course, I'm always fly when I post.
And he started posting.
And he messaged me and was like,
"I guess you think you're looking good today?"
And I was like, "Yeah."
And we just started talking,
chatted a few times on Facebook,
exchanged numbers, and we just got really cool.
- How soon after that first message
did you guys start talking, like--
- Probably after like the fifth text?
- So day one. - Yeah.
I met him online in 2019.
- So you dated through the pandemic,
like, for three years? - Yeah.
He had just pretty much moved from Dallas to Los Angeles.
- So he lived in Dallas, moved to LA.
- Yeah. - What's he like?
What's his deal? - He's a really nice guy.
I kind of met him when I was going through,
like, some of the toughest times in my life.
And that's how we really got close.
When I first met him, I had ovarian cancer.
I had a--
I had a cyst in my stomach that when they took it out,
it was, like, 40 pounds.
So yeah. Didn't eat.
- Wow.
- It was crazy cause I used to go to the doctor.
They--for a year, they told me I had acid reflux.
And all the while, it was, like, cancer.
- They never did, like, any X-rays or anything like that?
- Nope, not till the last time I went to the hospital
and I found out that I had cancer.
- This is that [bleep] I hear about all the time.
- Mm-hmm. - Yeah.
- Doctors just don't listen to women.
- They don't listen to Black women at all.
- I always say that-- Black women in particular.
Yeah. - It's insane.
Well, I'm glad that they were able to find it.
- Yeah, me too.
- And you're here, and you're healthy.
- Yeah.
- And so what was Jermaine like for you during all that?
- He was so positive. Like, he would motivate me.
I was really sick from going through chemo
where I couldn't even get out the bed,
but he just always had me laughing
and checking on me throughout the day.
He was somebody I could talk to just about anything.
He really was there for me.
It was like I met him when I really needed somebody,
I guess. He made me happy.
He made me smile.
I never really met nobody that really inspired me
and, I mean, made me want to, like, do something,
like, different, like him taking
a chance moving out here from Dallas
to pursue his dream. - And what does he do?
- He work in the film production.
He does a little acting. But more, he help build sets.
- Oh. If that's true, that's cool.
- Does he have kids? - No.
I asked him about kids.
I asked him, has he been married.
I even asked him, was he gay.
- So you obviously think-- you know
that there's something weird about this--
- Yeah, I feel it's something weird
'cause I feel like certain times of the day,
I would call, he wouldn't answer.
He would send me a text right away.
He'll be like, "Nah, just-- I can't really talk much."
I'm like, "Whatever."
But then there's times we on the phone
for, like, long hours, and so-- so it's weird.
- Aaron told us that Jermaine, he'd actually
been to New Orleans. - Yeah, he's been--
- How did that come up, and why didn't you meet?
- So the first time he came to New Orleans,
he was like, "I want to see you."
So I'm like, "OK." So I called him.
I was like, "What's up?"
He was like, "Oh, I had to leave."
- Leave New Orleans? - Yeah.
He was like, "I was in a rush. I had to leave."
And the second time, he was like,
"I'ma be in New Orleans.
So, again, he gave me a time when he got there.
And then he just pretty much ghosted me.
He didn't answer.
- And did you get upset with him about that?
- Yeah, I was pissed, so I stopped talking to him
for, like, a few days. - OK.
- And then I had some time off, so I came to LA in June.
And I told him ahead of time.
I was like, "Oh, I'ma be in LA."
And he was like, "Oh, I'ma be in Dallas."
I'm like, "What the [bleep]?"
- Yeah. - So I don't know.
That's why I feel like he's hiding something.
But then when we talk, it's like he's
a whole different person.
- What kind of stuff does he say,
though, about, like, your future together?
Does he talk about that? - Like, we talk.
And I was like, "Well,
I've been wanting to move out here, so..."
He was like, "If you move out here,
we definitely gonna be together."
I'll be like, "So what are we? Are you my boyfriend?"
And he'll be like, "Yeah, I'll take that."
- Do you talk about starting a family?
Is that something that you both want?
- Yeah, I told him I wanted kids,
but I wanted to be married first.
I don't want to just have a kid without being married.
- Right.
- Well, he's got to get his ass here then.
- I know. I want to see him.
[laughter]
- And no FaceTiming, obviously. - Nope.
Every time I ask him about FaceTime,
and he'll be like, "OK, I'ma be working,
but I have some free time at this time."
And then when it's time to FaceTime,
I don't hear from him.
So after a while, I just got tired of asking.
So I never even worry about it.
- And he's never sent you a video.
- No. - But he is on Facebook.
And is he on anything else?
- Can we see-- can you show them?
- Yeah, I have some pictures of him.
So here's a few pictures.
- OK. - Wow.
He's got that mysterious--
- Mm-hmm, dreadhead vibe.
You like the dreads? - Yeah, I like the dreads.
It's cute.
- All right, go to the next one.
- It's cute. - OK.
On the beach. - Baby.
- OK, yeah, that's on a production truck.
Promising. - Mm.
- It's a very production-y vibe.
Looks sweet. - That's another one.
- In a limo. - Mm-hmm.
- That's pretty much it.
That's the one he sent to me, but it's on his page too.
- He say how he found your page in the first place?
- No, 'cause I even went and looked
to see if we had mutual friends,
but there's nobody that I know.
Because people just be following me on social media
because I do the makeup and all that.
So people may see me on somebody else's page
and follow, so... - Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
- Well, look, hard to say at this point.
Clearly, this person has feelings for you.
The question is, is he the exact person
he's presented himself to be?
Send us whatever you have, and we'll dig in
first thing in the morning, and we'll meet back up.
- OK. All right.
- Thank you.
See ya. - Stay dry.
- We'll try.
- All right, Kamie.
What do you think?
- I think Jermaine is who he says he is.
- Wow, really? - That's my intuition.
- Your first instinct is that he is not lying.
- He's not lying about who he is...
- Okay, ah.
- But he is lying about something significant.
And I feel that whatever Jermaine
has to tell her is gonna break her heart.
- Shall we? - Thank you.
What a gentleman.
[bright music]
- All right. - What do we got?
- Erika and Jermaine have been talking for three years.
Jermaine was incredibly supportive
through a very difficult period of time.
- Yeah.
- Then he says he's in New Orleans...
- Twice. - Twice.
But he doesn't make plans to meet up with her.
Then she comes to LA, and he's all of a sudden
not in LA. And he won't FaceTime.
Clearly something's going on.
Your gut feeling was that you think
this guy isn't lying about who he is
but that he's hiding or lying about some part of his life.
- I think he's married or has a girlfriend.
Like, why are you being weird? - Right.
Something's going on.
Enter Nev and Kamie. So let's see.
What do we got? Details on Jermaine.
"Hi, Nev and Kamie.
"Thank you so much for reading my brother's email
"and for deciding to help me out.
"Jermaine Johnson is 36.
"He's from Dallas, Texas, but moved to Los Angeles.
His phone number..." which is an LA phone number.
"You can see his Facebook profile here.
"Here is his Instagram page, but we never talked on there.
"Call me if you need anything else
or if you have any questions." All right.
So what do you want to do?
You want to start with his Facebook, check him out?
- Yeah. - Let's see what he's got.
Jermaine Johnson.
"I am a humble and hungry actor who is driven
by passion and love for the arts."
Well, let's look at these pictures.
It's weird that no one commented
or liked any of these.
I mean, the Facebook page does feel a little thin.
- Right.
- It doesn't have any info on there,
and he hasn't posted that much. - Right.
- OK, there is a few production stills.
"Murder Made Me Famous." Let's look that up.
That looks like the name of a movie.
"Murder made me famous." It's a TV series.
Let's look it up.
You think he would be credited for that?
- Jermaine Johnson. - Shut the [bleep] up!
- Four episodes.
I told you. It's him.
- That's him. - Art department.
- He does exactly what he says he does.
He works in production, and sometimes he acts.
Wow, this is the guy.
But is it possible that someone
is talking to her who's stealing
Jermaine Johnson's identity? - I mean, is it possible?
Yes. That Facebook is a little sus.
- The Facebook feels off to me. She gave us his Instagram.
Yeah, let's check that out. - Yeah.
- He's got posts. Looks like--
- Oh, look at that comment.
"Next time I see you, we smokin' them big ones."
- Look, he's tagging people. Everyone's commenting.
I think this Instagram account is legit.
- Just for them to have never talked on Instagram--
does she follow him on Instagram?
- I would assume she follows him.
Jermaine. OK.
Let's go to his followers.
- Yeah, here we go. - She follows him.
They don't talk on his Instagram.
- No, they only talk
on Facebook and texting now.
- Which means that this is a real page for a real guy
who maybe just doesn't have any idea
who Erika is other than maybe noticing her
as one of his followers.
Because he's got a ton of photos, lots of friends,
comments, but his Facebook feels kind of thin to me.
It's not impossible that someone's
been using this Facebook to talk to Erika
pretending to be him. - Yeah.
- I mean, I-- if we could just get
one person to confirm that's his real Facebook,
then it's him.
- Why don't we contact that guy from the comment,
the one of the cigar?
- That "Boy P-nut." - Danal.
- I'm sending a little note to Danal P-nut.
- P-nut knows him.
- Let's look up Jermaine's number.
If it comes back to Jermaine Johnson,
he's close. - Johnny Jercore?
That's interesting.
Huh. - Yeah.
[phone ringing] - Oh.
- Somebody's calling from Texas.
- Oh, Texas. Hello?
- "Da-nahl?"
- Danal. Sorry about that.
Hey, this is Nev.
We're filming an episode of "Catfish."
You know the show?
- We're just trying to confirm something
about a person I think you know
named Jermaine Johnson.
- Well, just trying to make sure
all the information that we have about him
is accurate.
with them kids, at his mom's house, so...
- Sorry, [bleep], I lost you for a second.
What was that what you just said?
[phone beeps]
- He said he doesn't have a problem
with kids and something? The mom? What?
Did I--was I hearing that--
- What--what-- what did he just say?
- Kids and mom. I heard "kids" and "mom."
- Dustin, can you play that back for us?
- Cool, let's do it.
- Press play. - Okay.
With them kids, at his mom's house, so...
- Kids with the mom.
He's always got something-- kids with the mom.
- There was something there. Kids with the mom.
Thank you.
- Huh. Well, that is interesting.
We've got to go talk to Erika. - Something's up.
- If Jermaine is who he says he is,
then the stranger and more mysterious
this becomes.
- There's two theories I think
that make sense right now.
One, Erika is talking to Jermaine.
The guy in the picture is totally legit
but has been hiding something from her, possibly--
- The kids are with the mom.
- Possibly a baby mama and some children.
- Mm. - Other theory.
Jermaine is real, but the Facebook page
was set up by someone pretending to be him.
- Because she doesn't talk to him on Instagram.
- Either way, not good news for Erika.
- Yeah. - All right.
[soft dramatic music]
- Hi. - Good to see you.
- Come on in.
- How was your day? - I don't know.
Just getting tired of the--
pretty much getting tired of the situation.
But I mean, I care a lot about him, so...
I'm just at a point where it's like,
I need to know what's going on so either we can move forward
or I can just move on.
But hopefully, it's forward with him.
- Well, we did some research on him.
So we'll walk you through what we found.
So we did a search on a website that is basically
like the most official place for anybody in the movie,
TV, theater industry to be listed.
It's very legit.
And sure enough, Jermaine Johnson has a page.
He's done a lot of stuff.
He's done--he's worked on 16 different projects
in the last few years.
It lists some movies, most recently "The Woman King."
Just came out. - He's in the art department.
- Yeah, which is exactly what he's told you.
- Yeah.
- So the guy in the pictures, his name is Jermaine Johnson.
He works in LA.
He does all the things he sort of says he does--
production, acting, exactly.
And when we go to Instagram, we see a very similar person.
People are tagged.
He's tagged, all of which makes us
feel very confident that this is Jermaine.
It's him. Now, you follow him.
- Yeah.
- But you have never interacted on Instagram?
- No, we don't talk on Instagram, just Facebook.
- Interesting.
Because his Facebook page, where you met,
is not full of content. He's not tagging people.
There's no comments.
My first instinct would be, like,
this profile is a little fishy. - Yeah.
- We started thinking, could it be
that whoever runs this page is not Jermaine Johnson,
and that someone made a fake account of Jermaine
and uses it to talk to people?
- People have done it before.
And the fact that you don't talk to him
at all on Instagram, it's a little weird.
- We don't never talk on Instagram all.
- So check this out.
On his most recent Instagram post,
someone commented, that "Boy P-nut."
He said, "Next time I see you, we smoking them big ones."
That to us felt like, oh, maybe this is
someone he's friends with. - Yeah.
- We sent a message. This guy did call us back.
And he was curious why we wanted
to ask him about Jermaine and wasn't really excited
to answer questions.
Hold on, let me play it for you because I want you
to kind of make your own judgment.
he already got enough problems
with them kids at his mom's house.
- The [bleep]?
He's having problems with his kids and his mom?
- "Problems," is that what you think?
- He's probably with his kids at his mom's house.
- At his mom's. - Wow.
- So assuming this is really the person you're talking to,
it's starting to look like this guy might have some kids.
- So that's what he been probably hiding.
I asked him before did he have kids.
He said no. I've asked him multiple times.
That's stupid to lie about.
That--that's crazy. - Yeah.
- Why would you hide your kids? - That is where--
- If you lie about your kid, no telling what else
you would lie about. - Exactly.
- Why would he not say that?
- He may have been lying about what level of interaction
he's having with their mom.
- That makes sense how he can't talk
at certain times of the day, acting like
he hiding talking and all that.
So he lied.
- Well, he's lying about something.
He either isn't the real Jermaine,
or he is and is lying about his kids and all this.
So where does that leave you?
- I'm pissed because, like,
I've been talking to you
for damn near three years, and you lied.
- ♪♪ You went from the love of my life ♪♪
♪♪ To somebody I don't know. ♪♪
- You lie about something big like that,
no telling what else you'll lie about.
- ♪♪ Let go of something good ♪♪
- I don't think we have enough to say
beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has kids.
- Well, obviously that's somebody
that know him that said that, so--
- Yeah, and there's still a chance
that's not even the guy you're talking to.
It's all a little unclear.
I think it seems to be pointing in that direction.
I'm not ready, personally, to say, "Oh, that's it.
He lied about his kids." - I am.
- You taking up for him? - I'm not taking up for him.
I'm trying to keep...
- Well, if he have kids, then he hid it.
- Our minds open.
- [laughs] - Innocent until proven guilty.
- He is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
- I'm just not ready to rest my case on P-nut's testimony,
all right?
- P-nuts usually tell the truth.
- Town snitch.
- Let's contact Jermaine and just put it out there.
"Hey, we're here in LA with Erika.
Can you meet us?"
- Yeah. - All right, great.
I'm gonna send a text. This is "Catfish."
I'm here in LA with Erika,
hoping we can help you guys
finally meet.
All right. It says delivered.
Does he usually respond promptly?
- It just-- if he's at work,
it'll take him a minute to respond, but--
- Right. - No telling when.
[phone chimes] - Oh.
Whoa. Whoa.
He said, "Huh? Help us meet?
"I'm sort of confused.
Why would we need help meeting?"
I mean-- - Because you haven't?
- Always making excuses about meeting.
- Erika has been very patient,
and at this point, I think if you don't meet up with her,
she is going to have to...
- Move on. - Move on.
Is that fair? - Yeah.
- "If I decided to meet up, how would it work?"
He says, "I'm in Texas. I live in Texas."
- So he [bleep] lied about that.
- We are happy to book you
a flight to LA.
- It's the games at this point that's getting on my nerve.
[phone whooshes] - Oh.
Whoa, whoa. "OK.
I can get myself out there on my own tomorrow."
- No, no. - "I'll text you when I land."
- Why would he want to get himself out here?
- Maybe his name is not Jermaine Johnson.
- [gasps]
He doesn't want us to book him a flight,
'cause then we'll have all his info.
- That boy [bleep] be lying about his name too.
- That's-- - That works for us.
We don't know what game he's playing,
but maybe this is not Jermaine.
- [sighs]
- We won't know until, hopefully,
we meet him tomorrow.
- I'm willing to take a chance to see what happens.
- All right, so look, let's just plan
on meeting up in the morning and just take it
one step at a time. - All right.
Hasta mañana.
- It's confusing, but we'll clear it up.
♪♪ ♪♪
He's clearly lying.
And it's either the big lie, that he's been hiding his kids
and potentially where he lives, or the huge lie,
that he's been pretending to be someone else
and has an entirely different life.
I mean, we might not know anything
about who Erika is talking to.
♪♪ ♪♪
- I think it's finally stopped raining.
It's a little hazy but beautiful.
Let's check in and see if we got anything
from our mystery man. Oh.
He said, "Landed.
This is where I will be." With an address.
[line trilling]
- The eagle has landed.
And he sent me an address.
He said he can meet at this address.
Why don't we meet up over at Erika's house
and see what happens?
- There she is.
- Hello.
- You got your joggers on now. You're ready to--
- In case I got to run. [laughter]
- Anyway, you can come sit up here.
- OK.
- And here's Kamie, yeah.
- Hi. - I love this.
- Hi. - Good to see you.
- Hi. - All right.
You ready? - I'm ready.
- We got an address. Let's just go.
- All right.
- Whoo. You ready?
- Yeah, ready. I'm nervous.
But it's now or never.
- 20 minutes. - Waited this long.
I guess a few minutes won't hurt.
I'm really hoping he's who he says he is.
- Yeah. - It's just weird, all this.
It don't make sense.
[soft dramatic music]
This feels like the longest car ride ever.
- Here's the street.
♪♪ ♪♪
1740. There it is.
All right. Pulling in.
Shall we? - It's time.
- Let's see what we got going on here.
You guys hang here.
Let me just scope it out.
- It's a little creepy. - Whose house is this?
- I don't know.
I've never seen no videos with nothing
like this, anything. - Are the lights on?
- I can't really see.
[knocks]
- Of course, every blind is closed.
[sighs]
[door clicks] - Hello.
- Hey. - Ooh.
Who is that?
[knocks] [door clicks]
- Ooh. - Hello?
- Who is that? - Hey.
- I can't see. - What's up?
- How you doing? Nice to meet you, man.
- Good to meet you, too, man.
Jermaine? - Yeah.
- That's him. - Well, come on out.
- [laughs]
- We're all not really sure what to expect, but--
- Hi. - Hey.
- How you doing, Erika? - Hey.
- Here he is.
[laughter]
- There you go.
- It's nice to see you in person.
- Nice to see you too. You look good.
- I'm Kamie. - Jermaine.
- Nice to meet you. Wow. OK.
- So what the hell is going on?
Because you said you lived in Texas yesterday,
but you've told Erika you live here.
- I own a house in Lubbock, Texas, you know.
- OK. - So that's my hub.
That's where I go.
And LA is basically where I come to work in.
- Fine, so if it's been you talking to her the whole time--
which it has, right? - Yeah, of course.
- Why haven't you been down to try to meet up or FaceTime?
- You've been in New Orleans twice.
She's been here.
- Well, I didn't do the FaceTime, because--
I don't know.
It's like I don't feel like we needed that.
We connected on levels far beyond that.
You know what I mean?
And the reason why I haven't met you,
Erika, is basically because in my line of work,
I have to travel a lot.
I do a lot of set design also. - Yeah.
But you came to New Orleans twice,
and you could have made time.
- When I came to New Orleans, I was actually with family.
- Family, huh? - Yeah.
I accidentally slipped up.
I wasn't--I didn't want you to know I was out there,
because I knew you'd be upset because we've been trying
to meet each other for the longest.
So I felt bad that I didn't--
- But if you're trying to date me,
then you should want me to meet your family.
- Yeah, but it's complicated because I just--
- You just what?
- It's-- - You have kids?
- Kids?
I don't have-- I don't have kids.
- Girlfriend? Married?
- No, I'm not married. - Hmm.
- Why do you feel like I got kids or I'm married?
- We talked to your friend.
He goes by "P-nut." - Danal?
- Danal. - Yeah, that's my best friend.
- He didn't want to, like, answer any questions about you,
but he said something-- at the end of our conversation,
he was like...
- If you have questions for him, ask him, but he's--
he's got problems... - With his kids and his...
- With the kids at the mom's house.
- Oh, OK, OK. See, I was in a--
I was in a relationship,
and the woman that I was with, she had children.
- How long were you in that relationship?
- I was in that relationship like three years--
three, four years.
The relationship was-- you know, it was rocky, man.
- So when did you end your previous relationship?
- That's probably, like, a little bit over a year ago.
- So for like the first two years that you were talking
to Erika, you were very much...
- So you were still in a relationship.
- Still in that.
- There ain't no-- - Yeah, yeah.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
During the time we were talking about meeting each other
and doing all these things, I was still
kind of in that relationship.
I was trying to get out of that relationship,
you know what I mean?
- Did you tell Erika about that?
Did you--did you guys ever talk about--
- No.
- I never-- I never told her that.
I didn't want to bring my drama into your life
while you were going through what you were going through,
you know what I mean?
- I understand all that.
But, you know, from her point of view,
I feel like that feels a little deceptive, like--
- I mean, deception, deceiving, lies--
you would have to say-- I haven't said any--
I didn't tell her that, "Hey, I don't have a--
I'm not in a relationship."
- I asked you was you in a relationship.
You said no.
- I just didn't feel like it was necessary at the time
to express all of these--
all of my woes upon her while she was--
she was going through health issues
and family emergencies and things of that nature.
And I just didn't want to pour that on her,
you know what I mean?
- So, look, while you've been honest about most
of the major details of your life,
there have been some elements of your story
that you've told Erika that were a little bent.
You were still in a relationship when you met
but don't have kids.
- Well--I--I do-- I have a son.
- A son? - Wait.
- Yeah, I have a-- yeah, I have a son.
- What? - What?
- The [bleep]?
We just asked you did you have a child.
- No, you asked me if I had kids.
- Well-- - [bleep] bro.
It's the same thing. - No, it's not--
it's not the same. Kids is more than one.
And--and look-- - Do you have a singular child?
- Well, you guys were referring to--
- Jermaine.
- You guys were referring to the group of a kids.
- We were referring to your ex's kids.
- And I'm like, "No, those are not my kids."
- But you do have a kid. - I have a kid.
Yeah, of my own, who is about to turn 17...
- Wow. - From a previous relationship.
- Wow, OK.
- So you don't think that's something...
- Yeah, back when I was young-- - You should have told me?
- Huh?
- You don't that's something you should have told me?
- You never asked me. You never--
- I asked you, did you have a child, yes, I have.
- You never straight up asked me if I have a--when?
- I've asked you multiple times if you have a child.
- Or did she say "do you have kids?"
- "Do you have kids?" - And you said no.
- Wow. - [laughs]
So we'd better play that game.
- You don't have to tell everybody
your business right off break.
But, like, after three years and somebody's asking you,
do you have kids, withholding information
is still lying. - Yeah.
I'm--I--I get that.
But to be honest, I got too far down
the rabbit hole, though.
Like, when we first started talking,
it was more, like, flirtatious.
And then as it got deeper, I was like, "Oh, man,
do I let her know these things that..."
- Yeah. - "She does not know?"
- Yes.
- Or do I wait until I know that she is someone
that I could be with, you know?
Sure, it's living in fear.
But coming from a background with relationships
where, you know, crazy women,
quote unquote, like--
- But you could have told me and gave me
the opportunity to decide what I wanted to do or not.
- And let me give you a tip on women.
Women become crazy when information is withheld
from us and we're lied to.
So, usually, if you give us the truth up front,
we get a little less crazy.
- You're right.
I mean, I guess my excuse of me
not thinking it was serious at first
and leading into something more serious doesn't matter,
I guess, to you guys, right?
Yeah. I get that, but--
- So have you ever been married?
Because I've asked you that multiple times, just like--
- I said no. I've never been married, no.
- And while you've been talking to Erika,
have you been talking to anyone else seriously
for the past three years? - No.
I don't play those games.
- But you say you don't play those games
like talking to other women.
Like, you were kind of talking to Erika while you were in a--
- I mean, but come on. Come on.
Come on, Nev.
That's not exactly the same thing.
I mean, I'm--
I'm guilty of hiding the fact
that I was interested in another woman
while exiting with another woman.
- All right. So hold up.
So let's just get to-- to the present, OK?
You're here.
So the question now is
what are your feelings for Erika?
- I mean, one thing that I wanted to tell you,
Erika, is that over the span that we've
been talking to each other, I've grown to like you a lot.
And I want a--
a chance or a shot with you. You know what I mean?
I want to be able to see how that looks like, you know?
You know how we talk, you know? It's--we have a connection.
And you don't-- - We do, but you lied.
That's big. That's not something small.
- OK. So why don't we do this?
Let us just sort of huddle with Erika
and just sort of check in with her.
- Mm-hmm.
- You can go inside for a minute.
And then we'll come in, and we can sit down and have
a bit more of, like, a casual conversation.
- OK. All right.
Can I-- can I get a hug or something?
I'm sorry.
- Erika, honey. - But I mean, it is him.
- But as a woman who wants to have children,
the idea that you could be with a man who is not
so excited to say that he's a dad
and that he has a kid, kids plural, whatever.
- And I don't wanna deal with baby mama drama.
Because what if I have a child with you?
You gonna hide it? - Yeah.
- That just changed the whole dynamic of things.
- The question is, even if he is ready,
do you want to be with someone like that?
- I don't know.
- The idea that you could be with a man
who is not so excited to say that he's a dad.
Do you want to be with someone like that?
- I don't know. - All right.
Well, should we go in there and see if there's
anything else he wants to tell us?
- Yeah.
- Hello. - How you doing?
- Hey. All right.
- You don't even knock?
You just coming over to this man's house?
- Welcome, welcome. - [sighs]
I got to ask a question though. - OK.
- Serious question. - OK.
- Is the problem that I have a kid,
or is the problem that I haven't told you about my son?
- It's mostly you didn't tell me.
And it's like I should feel like I should've had
the opportunity to know that. - OK.
So you don't not like--
- I don't dislike kids. I like kids.
I want kids. - But you don't want to--
like, you don't want to date a man who has a kid.
- Erika likes kids.
I don't even think you having a son
would have prevented her from pursuing
the relationship with you, if she had known about him...
- Right. - Sooner.
So what's hard for her now is that it's like, well,
if he didn't tell me about that,
how do I know I could trust that
he'll tell me about things in the future?
- I understand that.
- The point is that he's been there from the beginning.
And personally, my boyfriend, on our first date,
he let me know that he has a teenager.
And it meant a lot to me, one, that he shared it
because for me, as a woman who wants kids,
I want to be with somebody who's proud
of the fact that they have kids
and willing to share that with other people.
So I think if you had told Erika that
when you first started talking,
it would have meant a lot to her.
And not sharing it feels like, OK,
well, what if you guys were to move on and have kids?
Would you then not tell people that you have kids?
- I mean, this-- I understand that.
- So you're active in your child's life?
- Yeah, of course. Yeah.
- But you see how you doing this runaround
makes it sound like you're not.
So why-- why even do that to yourself?
- I'm--I apologize that I didn't say it sooner,
but the seriousness of the relationship to me
wasn't there, you know what I mean?
- All right, look. Your timing is your timing.
Point is, now Erika knows about your son,
and she's not running for the hills.
And I think you have a very small window,
an opportunity right now, to woo her and convince her
that she should want to keep talking to you.
- All right.
- You've got to try to make this like a fresh start.
- Yeah. - OK.
I mean-- - Right.
- I feel like I care about you.
You're somebody who's very important to me.
Your words and talking to you on the phone for hours
helped motivate me to be the person I am, you know?
- Right.
- I feel like when you get to know me,
I feel like you will understand and realize
that I am a good dude. - I don't doubt that.
- And I value you as a person. I value you as a woman.
You're beautiful, you're smart.
I feel like, moving forward, like, I want to work it out,
you know.
I would love to, like, have a chat with you,
a chance with you, even though, you know, I lied about my son.
But I mean, in experience we gain knowledge, right?
So I can promise you here and now
that if you were to give me a shot
and give me, like, an honest chance,
I feel like that we could be a perfect match, you know?
- I'm with that. - Like--you know?
That's what I feel. - I hear you talking.
Put in the time, and we'll see.
- Even if I've got to drive,
I'll drive to you on the weekend,
and we can hang out, and we can have a good time.
We can do whatever you want to do.
- Are you sure? - Everything on me.
Yeah, like, anything you want to do,
we're gonna do it. - Mm. We'll see.
- All right, well, look, why don't we
just leave it at that for now? Everything's in the open now.
So just work on planning to meet up again
and take it from there.
- This is the beginning of something new.
We need to do this the right way this time.
I promise.
- [screams] - Hey.
- See, there's a chance. - Whoo!
- Love prevails. - There's a chance.
- Just keep your mouth shut and you'll be fine.
- Yeah, keep it shut. - Bye.
- All right, later.
I'll talk to you later. - All right.
- ♪♪ They can't do it like me, me, me, me, me ♪♪
- Ooh!
- Erika got a kiss. Erika and Jermaine...
[together] Sitting in a tree.
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
- Bye.
Lord have mercy.
I didn't think we were ever gonna get here.
- So you got a little kiss.
It's been a long time. - Finally.
- Yeah.
Well, we are very happy that you guys
can work through this, and if he can prove
that he's serious and ready to be real with you,
like, I think you guys could really have something here.
- I can't wait to see what happens next.
- I know.
- ♪♪ But she can't do like me ♪♪
♪♪ They ain't do it like me ♪♪
[computer chimes]
- Hi. - Hey.
- Hey, Erika. - Hey.
Wow. - Looking fabulous as usual.
- So the world is dying to know.
What happened after we finished filming?
- We talked a little bit, but pretty much
the same thing, kind of. - What do you mean? Like--
- Same old games. I don't really have time.
- So have you moved on, I imagine?
- Definitely.
- I mean, this guy is-- - I know.
- Well, I'm glad we actually got a chance to meet.
Like, I would never cut him all the way out.
- So just gonna stay friends. - Yeah.
I think we're better off friends.
If it's meant for us to be together,
we'll be together. But right now, no.
I feel like people make time for who they want.
So I ain't accepting it. - You shouldn't.
- Well, we're happy that you are doing well.
- Keep shining, sis.
- Thank you. - All right.
- Bye. - Bye.
[computer chime] - Well, hey guys.
How are you doing? - Boo.
Boo. Tomato, tomato, tomato.
- We heard you blew it, man. What happened?
- I feel that we're more of, like,
you know, we're on the path of, you know, being friends
than we are, like, lovers or in a relationship
type of situation.
- Are you in a relationship with anyone else?
- No, I don't-- there's no one else, man.
It's just--I mean, it's me and working hard, you know?
- He works.
- It's what--that's what I'm dating right now.
- Yeah, I know, but that's-- come on.
- People make time for what they want to make time for.
- Well, we're happy... - Yeah.
- That you and Erika have
a good foundation of friendship.
- You know, it's a shame because I really thought
that we could build and be,
you know, stronger than we are.
But who knows? Anything can happen, you know?
- Well, we wish you the best of luck.
- I appreciate you guys. - Bye, Jermaine.
- All right. Later.
- Jacob meets Stephanie via TikTok.
- She's just really cute, caring,
supportive, said "I love you." - Wow.
- Talk about marriage. - Really?
- Oh, my [bleep] God.
I shared so many [bleep] about me!
Like, I opened up. Like, what the [bleep]?
Oh, my God!
- [gasps] - Oh, oh.
Someone's coming. Someone's coming.