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♪♪♪
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Reporter: Just hours
after he left for work,
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George altidor became concerned
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When no one answered the phone
at his home.
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What police would find inside
the home no one could imagine.
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29-year-old marie altidor
was lying in a pool of blood.
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Also dead--her mother
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And the couple's
two small children,
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Brutally murdered.
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Have you ever had one this bad?
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No. None of our cases
are easy,
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But this one takes it
to an all-new low.
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♪ captive of my own thoughts ♪
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♪ battles I have not fought ♪
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♪ catch the light ♪
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Tonya and I are here
in miramar, florida,
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To investigate
one of the most horrific
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And heartbreaking cases
we've ever worked on--
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The 24-year-old murders
of "mamie" marie altidor,
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Her mom theresia,
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Her 2-year-old daughter,
and her 6-week-old daughter.
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She's 29 years old, and her mom
is here from haiti visiting her,
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60 years old,
and then those two babies.
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Three generations all wiped out.
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Marie was a haitian immigrant
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Who was very devoted
to her family.
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On April the 30th, 1997,
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Her husband george
returned home from work
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To find marie
and her mom theresia
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Both fatally shot
and beaten with a hammer,
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Along with his two babies,
dead from blunt force trauma.
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Within that very gruesome scene,
a big clue was left behind.
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And then we have that note
on the wall--
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"they stole my $100,000."
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-Yeah.
-Drug money, right?
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Right. Who's gonna take
the time to do that?
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And why even write on the wall?
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It's not often a killer
leaves a note,
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So there's clearly a purpose
behind it.
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But was it actually written
by drug dealers,
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Or is someone else trying
to throw off investigators?
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Using a hammer is so much more
personal and violent and vicious
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Than a gun or a knife.
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Right.
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Cracking
a 6-week-old baby's skull.
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-I don't--
-and a 2-year-old baby's skull
47
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That's hiding with her dollies
behind a couch.
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Who could do that?
49
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There could not be any more
vulnerable victims.
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-It's a monster.
-Exactly.
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It has been 16 years
and still no answers...
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Police consider her killing
a cult killing...
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Years later,
the case is still unsolved...
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Siegler: I've chosen cold cases
from across the country
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And teamed up with the best
detectives to solve them.
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We're more determined than ever
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To bring justice
to these victims.
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♪♪♪
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-Morning.
-Hello. Good morning.
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Hi, ladies.
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-Hi. Tonya rider.
-Hi.
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-I'm jonathan zeller.
-Welcome. Danny smith.
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-Nice to meet you.
-Welcome.
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Well, we read it all.
We studied it all.
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We wanna do whatever we can
to help you all.
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Thank you very much. We're very
happy to have you guys.
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Absolutely.
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There's not a more horrible case
than this.
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It's really weighed heavily
on the hearts of residents,
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Family, obviously,
and the officers
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That were here at the time
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And have kinda
caught up with it over time.
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Absolutely.
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-Y'all ready to get to work?
-Let's go.
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-Let's do it.
-I think we got a lot to do.
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-Yeah.
-Okay.
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This case will stick with me
for the rest of my life.
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Nobody deserves to
die like that, okay?
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Especially the two kids.
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And there's nothing I want more
than to solve this
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And bring justice for--
for the victims.
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Okay, let's--let's start off
with putting
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Our victims up on the wall.
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Gonna start with the baby.
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The baby was how old, guys?
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-6 weeks.
-6 weeks.
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-And her name?
-Officers: Sabrina.
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And then we have
her older sister.
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-Samantha.
-Samantha.
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-Who was how old?
-2 years old.
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-2 years old.
-2.
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-And then we have marie.
-Yes.
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-Last name altidor?
-Altidor.
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And her nickname was "mamie,"
right?
95
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Yes.
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Who was how old
when this happened?
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-29?
-29.
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And then we have
theresia laverne,
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And theresia was 60.
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Theresia is
marie altidor's mom.
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She lives in haiti.
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She offered to come to miramar
and help her with the new baby.
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Who is in this picture
with our mother-in-law?
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-Marie, her mom theresia.
-George altidor.
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-And george.
-Correct.
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That's horrible.
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Sabrina, at 6 weeks old--
she would be 24 now,
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Presumably in her career,
maybe married,
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Maybe kids of her own,
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And nobody in her family
got a chance to--
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To experience any of that,
and that goes for samantha
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And marie also, and ms. Laverne.
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It's three generations.
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We owe the family
a resolution to this case.
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April 30, 1997.
Tell us how it all began, danny.
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The husband, george altidor,
left his house at 7 a.M.
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He got to work.
He tried to reach marie
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Numerous times
throughout the day.
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He was unable to.
He contacts his brother-in-law,
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Says, "can you run by my house?
Starting to get worried."
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Brother-in-law went
to the altidor residence,
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Found three generations, slain.
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Marie and her mom were both shot
and savagely beaten
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With a blunt force object.
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The children were killed
by a hammer
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Or a hammer-like object.
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We think that our murder weapon
is a revolver?
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-We do.
-And how many shots are fired?
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-Five.
-Five.
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Okay, so let's break down
the crime scene.
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The front door was unlocked.
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There's no signs
of forced entry.
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The instrument was not left.
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There was no firearm left
on scene.
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There were no casings anywhere
throughout the house.
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In the area where
sabrina and samantha were found,
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There was writing on the wall.
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It read,
"I want my $100,000 drug money.
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They stole my drugs."
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So that's
your single biggest clue, then,
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That writing on the wall.
-Absolutely.
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Investigators didn't find
any evidence
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Of drugs or drug activity,
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Which raises the possibility
that the message
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Was actually written
just to divert the attention
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Away from the true killer.
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So the investigators began
looking at the person
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Closest to the victims.
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The handwriting
had been looked at twice.
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They actually had
the husband, george, write
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The same phrase over
and over and over again.
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And so far,
your handwriting experts say
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Just inconclusive?
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-Inconclusive.
-Okay.
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-Times two.
-Times two.
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So we're gonna send off
george's handwriting
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To the new handwriting expert
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To see what he says.
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Very, very, very curious to see
how that goes.
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Yeah, I agree.
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So talking over here,
starting on our suspect board.
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Let's put up here george.
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George, at the time,
I believe he was 33.
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He's from haiti.
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So let's start
with the big picture--
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The marriage, the relationship
between george and marie.
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What evidence do we have
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That they had any trouble
in that marriage?
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-None.
-None.
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Nobody's talking about divorce.
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I think marie normally
took pride in keeping
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Her personal life private.
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Which is pretty common
in the haitian community.
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We don't know
of any marital issues
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Between george and marie,
and it's crazy to think
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That a father could do that
to his own babies.
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But if george is a monster,
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Then we're gonna need
to find a motive.
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Okay, so let's break down
the person george altidor is.
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So what do we have
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That goes toward being able
to do that?
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-The first wife.
-And what'd she tell you all?
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-His jealousy.
-Yeah.
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She was also very afraid of him.
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Yes.
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When he pointed the gun
at her...
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The exact quote of what
she said,
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I think from george was,
189
00:07:57,377 --> 00:08:00,011
"if I kill you,
nobody would know."
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00:08:00,013 --> 00:08:01,646
"nobody would know."
191
00:08:01,648 --> 00:08:03,214
During
the initial investigation,
192
00:08:03,216 --> 00:08:04,849
George's ex-wife told
the police
193
00:08:04,851 --> 00:08:06,852
That years before he had
threatened her at gunpoint,
194
00:08:06,854 --> 00:08:08,921
But george claimed he never
owned a gun.
195
00:08:08,923 --> 00:08:11,991
This shows not only his temper
but maybe his mindset.
196
00:08:11,993 --> 00:08:14,927
Maybe he thinks he's clever
enough to outsmart police.
197
00:08:14,929 --> 00:08:16,527
Um, what about the number
of calls
198
00:08:16,529 --> 00:08:19,797
Once he starts checking on 'em?
Do we think those are odd?
199
00:08:19,799 --> 00:08:21,467
That, to me,
is a little extreme.
200
00:08:21,469 --> 00:08:22,935
-Okay.
-Yeah, like it escalated...
201
00:08:22,937 --> 00:08:24,937
-Right.
-...Really quickly.
202
00:08:24,939 --> 00:08:27,806
According to phone records,
george called home 16 times
203
00:08:27,808 --> 00:08:30,174
Trying to get ahold of marie
that day,
204
00:08:30,176 --> 00:08:32,410
But on other days, he didn't
seem nearly as persistent
205
00:08:32,412 --> 00:08:34,078
When he couldn't get ahold
of her.
206
00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:35,713
So was he sincerely concerned
207
00:08:35,715 --> 00:08:37,715
Or just trying to appear
that he was?
208
00:08:37,717 --> 00:08:42,153
Okay. Let's put up here
drug-related random intruder.
209
00:08:42,155 --> 00:08:44,489
So the note on the wall,
message on the wall.
210
00:08:44,491 --> 00:08:45,690
Message on the wall.
211
00:08:45,692 --> 00:08:46,891
'cause that's what
it was meant to be.
212
00:08:46,893 --> 00:08:48,559
It was meant to be a message,
right?
213
00:08:48,561 --> 00:08:50,561
-But to who?
-It was meant to be a message
214
00:08:50,563 --> 00:08:52,531
To the owner of the house,
215
00:08:52,533 --> 00:08:53,898
"ha ha ha.
Look what I did to you
216
00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:56,234
'cause you owe me $100,000."
217
00:08:56,236 --> 00:08:58,236
Was there ever any evidence
that george
218
00:08:58,238 --> 00:09:00,840
Or anybody in that family
was ever involved in drugs?
219
00:09:00,842 --> 00:09:05,109
No. This is just a very normal,
you know, home.
220
00:09:05,111 --> 00:09:08,913
Okay, now let's talk about
that phone call at 7.
221
00:09:08,915 --> 00:09:09,847
7:09.
222
00:09:09,849 --> 00:09:11,916
"marie?"
223
00:09:11,918 --> 00:09:14,519
The call did originate
from their landline,
224
00:09:14,521 --> 00:09:17,722
And it went to a relative
in maryland,
225
00:09:17,724 --> 00:09:19,658
And we confirmed that with them.
226
00:09:19,660 --> 00:09:22,328
-What do we do with that?
-That's the question, kelly.
227
00:09:22,330 --> 00:09:24,063
We don't know when
the murders occurred,
228
00:09:24,065 --> 00:09:26,597
But the police department
does believe
229
00:09:26,599 --> 00:09:29,467
That marie's godmother
received a call
230
00:09:29,469 --> 00:09:33,405
From the house
at 7:09 that morning.
231
00:09:33,407 --> 00:09:37,609
The thing is, george's coworkers
confirmed way back then
232
00:09:37,611 --> 00:09:40,579
That george got to work on time
at 7:30 that morning.
233
00:09:40,581 --> 00:09:44,215
There's no way that
george could have killed
234
00:09:44,217 --> 00:09:48,186
His whole family
after that phone call at 7:09
235
00:09:48,188 --> 00:09:50,555
And still made it to work
on time.
236
00:09:50,557 --> 00:09:52,457
And that brings us back
to the possibility
237
00:09:52,459 --> 00:09:55,226
Of an unknown suspect.
238
00:09:55,228 --> 00:09:57,963
Why do you need to kill a baby
that can't even speak
239
00:09:57,965 --> 00:09:59,964
Or a 2-year-old?
240
00:09:59,966 --> 00:10:02,166
That's senseless.
There's no reason for it.
241
00:10:02,168 --> 00:10:05,370
Why even use a hammer? If you're
going there with a gun,
242
00:10:05,372 --> 00:10:06,971
Shoot everybody,
and be done with it.
243
00:10:06,973 --> 00:10:08,239
Shoot everybody.
244
00:10:08,241 --> 00:10:10,575
I see the hammer as
overkill rage.
245
00:10:10,577 --> 00:10:12,510
We have
so many unanswered questions.
246
00:10:12,512 --> 00:10:16,481
Was this revenge?
Was this staged?
247
00:10:16,483 --> 00:10:18,984
Could it have been more
than one person,
248
00:10:18,986 --> 00:10:22,287
And how could anybody do
something this horrible?
249
00:10:25,325 --> 00:10:28,060
♪ are we in a dream? ♪
250
00:10:28,062 --> 00:10:34,532
♪ am I gonna wake up
just to see that you're gone? ♪
251
00:10:34,534 --> 00:10:36,802
♪ gone ♪
252
00:10:36,804 --> 00:10:41,740
Do you have any other cases
nearly as sad as this one?
253
00:10:41,742 --> 00:10:45,611
No. Nothing--nothing that
really even comes close to this.
254
00:10:45,613 --> 00:10:48,814
I've investigated this case
and spoke with the family
255
00:10:48,816 --> 00:10:51,282
For about half of my career.
256
00:10:51,284 --> 00:10:53,351
We have grown close
over the years.
257
00:10:53,353 --> 00:10:55,887
So yeah, I mean, you can't help
but to say it's personal.
258
00:10:55,889 --> 00:10:57,922
-Hello, ladies.
-Hello.
259
00:10:57,924 --> 00:11:00,125
This is that homicide,
260
00:11:00,127 --> 00:11:04,028
That violent crime
that I cannot shake.
261
00:11:04,030 --> 00:11:05,830
This is
my adopted haitian family.
262
00:11:05,832 --> 00:11:06,898
-I like that.
-Yeah.
263
00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:08,466
[laughter]
264
00:11:08,468 --> 00:11:11,370
Can you tell us
what marie was like?
265
00:11:11,372 --> 00:11:12,537
-Yeah.
-And what'd she like to do?
266
00:11:23,450 --> 00:11:25,383
We grew up like sisters.
I think that we--
267
00:11:25,385 --> 00:11:27,452
All of our cousins.
We have a big family,
268
00:11:27,454 --> 00:11:30,188
But we really knew each other
very well.
269
00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:33,725
And how about your mom?
What was she like?
270
00:11:43,470 --> 00:11:45,537
Were y'all able to visit enough
to get to know samantha?
271
00:11:45,539 --> 00:11:47,271
She was only 2.
272
00:11:47,273 --> 00:11:50,142
Samantha--she was lovely.
273
00:12:42,195 --> 00:12:43,328
♪♪♪
274
00:12:57,745 --> 00:13:01,012
Listening to this family
talk about
275
00:13:01,014 --> 00:13:04,015
How horribly devastating
this has been to them,
276
00:13:04,017 --> 00:13:06,552
What do you say to 'em?
277
00:13:06,554 --> 00:13:08,819
Who could possibly say anything
278
00:13:08,821 --> 00:13:10,355
That's gonna make them feel
any better?
279
00:13:10,357 --> 00:13:12,557
In those days
around the funeral,
280
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,759
Was there ever a time
where george said to you
281
00:13:14,761 --> 00:13:16,694
From his mouth
what he thinks happened,
282
00:13:16,696 --> 00:13:19,297
Who could've done this?
283
00:13:19,299 --> 00:13:21,566
Never?
284
00:13:21,568 --> 00:13:24,168
It's your mother and your sister
and your nieces.
285
00:13:24,170 --> 00:13:28,307
And he's never out of his mouth
tried to tell you anything.
286
00:13:33,046 --> 00:13:36,448
And to this day,
all these years later...
287
00:13:36,450 --> 00:13:37,983
Nothing?
288
00:13:40,253 --> 00:13:41,253
Nothing.
289
00:13:41,255 --> 00:13:45,523
That's crazy, you know?
290
00:13:45,525 --> 00:13:47,325
We were all--
we're still in shock.
291
00:13:47,327 --> 00:13:49,327
There has to be justice.
292
00:13:49,461 --> 00:13:55,166
♪♪♪
293
00:13:55,167 --> 00:14:00,872
Our handwriting expert is ready
to give us his findings.
294
00:14:00,875 --> 00:14:03,008
-You wanna call him?
-Okay.
295
00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:07,278
[line rings]
296
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:08,446
Good afternoon.
297
00:14:08,448 --> 00:14:09,548
Hey, grant,
it's, uh, danny smith
298
00:14:09,550 --> 00:14:10,749
From
the miramar police department.
299
00:14:10,751 --> 00:14:12,517
So how are we looking?
300
00:14:15,556 --> 00:14:19,490
In 1997, marie altidor,
her mom theresia,
301
00:14:19,492 --> 00:14:21,893
And her babies
were brutally murdered.
302
00:14:21,895 --> 00:14:25,898
The message on the wall implied
that it was drug-related,
303
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:27,365
But investigators
have always suspected
304
00:14:27,367 --> 00:14:30,168
That maybe it was written
by her husband george.
305
00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:32,203
We've asked our
handwriting expert to compare
306
00:14:32,205 --> 00:14:35,574
The message on the wall
to old handwriting samples
307
00:14:35,576 --> 00:14:37,576
Given by george.
308
00:14:37,578 --> 00:14:39,510
If george is the author
of that note,
309
00:14:39,512 --> 00:14:41,145
It proves he was involved.
310
00:15:18,419 --> 00:15:20,685
Okay.
311
00:15:20,687 --> 00:15:22,421
Okay, well, thank you.
That's not what we thought
312
00:15:22,423 --> 00:15:24,556
You were gonna tell us,
but we appreciate it.
313
00:15:26,626 --> 00:15:27,759
If we could have matched
314
00:15:27,761 --> 00:15:29,226
The handwriting on that wall
to george,
315
00:15:29,228 --> 00:15:31,829
It would have gone a long way
to solving this case.
316
00:15:31,831 --> 00:15:34,499
But if george didn't write
the note on the wall,
317
00:15:34,501 --> 00:15:35,833
Then who did?
318
00:15:35,835 --> 00:15:37,735
Sh--.
319
00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:43,841
♪♪♪
320
00:15:43,843 --> 00:15:46,110
I think you're really gonna like
dr. Pinneri.
321
00:15:46,112 --> 00:15:48,579
She's the medical examiner
from back home in texas,
322
00:15:48,581 --> 00:15:51,116
And then chris robinson--
he's from georgia,
323
00:15:51,118 --> 00:15:53,651
And he's like
a firearms ballistics guy.
324
00:15:53,653 --> 00:15:55,252
We don't know what to do
325
00:15:55,254 --> 00:15:56,822
With that handwriting
on the wall,
326
00:15:56,824 --> 00:15:58,522
But we do wanna
look at all the other clues
327
00:15:58,524 --> 00:15:59,857
Left at the house.
328
00:15:59,859 --> 00:16:02,059
-So happy to see y'all.
-Yes, happy to be here.
329
00:16:02,061 --> 00:16:04,328
Dr. Kathryn pinneri
and chris robinson
330
00:16:04,330 --> 00:16:08,132
Are both here to help us
re-examine the forensic evidence
331
00:16:08,134 --> 00:16:09,534
And recreate the crime scene.
332
00:16:09,536 --> 00:16:12,103
Dr. Pinneri re-examined
all of the wounds
333
00:16:12,105 --> 00:16:14,272
On each victim to maybe
help us figure out
334
00:16:14,274 --> 00:16:16,474
The order of the attack,
335
00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:19,143
Which might help tell us more
about the killer.
336
00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:21,078
This is one of the most
disturbing cases...
337
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,481
-Horrible.
-...Um, I've seen
338
00:16:22,483 --> 00:16:24,081
In my career, very haunting.
339
00:16:24,083 --> 00:16:27,019
This is in the top five worst
cases I've been involved in.
340
00:16:27,021 --> 00:16:30,021
How many cases have you seen
in your whole career?
341
00:16:30,023 --> 00:16:31,889
-Thousands.
-Thousands.
342
00:16:31,891 --> 00:16:33,558
-And this is in the top five?
-This is in the top five.
343
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,160
-Damn.
-Wow.
344
00:16:36,162 --> 00:16:39,630
There's a lot going on here.
It's a quadruple homicide
345
00:16:39,632 --> 00:16:40,765
With a lot
of different injuries.
346
00:16:40,767 --> 00:16:42,501
The grandmother, theresia--
347
00:16:42,503 --> 00:16:44,635
She's got extensive blunt trauma
of her head.
348
00:16:44,637 --> 00:16:46,971
There's 23 described
blunt force injuries
349
00:16:46,973 --> 00:16:52,310
On multiple sides of her head,
so she is moving, turning.
350
00:16:52,312 --> 00:16:53,778
Some of the injuries
actually appear patterned,
351
00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:55,846
Which tells me a little bit
about the weapon
352
00:16:55,848 --> 00:16:58,149
That was used to inflict it.
353
00:16:58,151 --> 00:17:00,451
I think the most likely thing
would be a hammer.
354
00:17:00,453 --> 00:17:03,088
The hammer has the perfect edges
and surfaces
355
00:17:03,090 --> 00:17:06,991
To create all of the wounds
that she had.
356
00:17:06,993 --> 00:17:10,061
Additionally, she has
357
00:17:10,063 --> 00:17:12,130
A contact or near contact
gunshot wound
358
00:17:12,132 --> 00:17:13,465
To the back of her head.
359
00:17:13,467 --> 00:17:15,866
One thing that you can tell
from this injury
360
00:17:15,868 --> 00:17:18,937
Is that it came after
the blunt trauma
361
00:17:18,939 --> 00:17:21,740
Because of
the fracture patterns.
362
00:17:21,742 --> 00:17:24,542
A fracture line can't cross
a pre-existing fracture line.
363
00:17:24,544 --> 00:17:26,411
Fracture patterns
can help determine
364
00:17:26,413 --> 00:17:27,945
The order of an attack.
365
00:17:27,947 --> 00:17:30,381
In theresia's case, we can tell
that she was first struck
366
00:17:30,383 --> 00:17:31,816
By a blunt object,
367
00:17:31,818 --> 00:17:34,151
Which produced a crescent-shaped
fracture in her skull.
368
00:17:34,153 --> 00:17:35,986
Then she was shot,
causing a new fracture,
369
00:17:35,988 --> 00:17:38,457
Which spread outward
until it terminated
370
00:17:38,459 --> 00:17:40,191
On the earlier break.
371
00:17:40,193 --> 00:17:42,293
That wouldn't happen
if the gunshot was first.
372
00:17:42,295 --> 00:17:45,296
The mother, marie,
has five gunshot wounds,
373
00:17:45,298 --> 00:17:47,832
One of which is a re-entry
from another wound.
374
00:17:47,834 --> 00:17:52,770
So she's shot here and turns
and gets shot there
375
00:17:52,772 --> 00:17:55,706
And then either falls
or collapses.
376
00:17:55,708 --> 00:17:57,109
And then she's shot
in the head in the back.
377
00:17:57,111 --> 00:17:59,810
But then she also has
blunt trauma,
378
00:17:59,812 --> 00:18:02,012
And there's about
19 described blunt entries
379
00:18:02,014 --> 00:18:03,648
To the head and face.
380
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:06,484
Most of these wounds
are on the left side
381
00:18:06,486 --> 00:18:09,987
Of her face and head,
which is kinda how she fell.
382
00:18:09,989 --> 00:18:11,922
In my opinion,
she was down on the ground
383
00:18:11,924 --> 00:18:16,093
When these blows to the head
were sustained.
384
00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:19,931
She's not moving around
to sustain injuries
385
00:18:19,933 --> 00:18:22,133
On the--all surfaces
like the grandmother was.
386
00:18:22,135 --> 00:18:25,670
It seems crazy
that two weapons were used,
387
00:18:25,672 --> 00:18:27,671
Especially when you consider
388
00:18:27,673 --> 00:18:30,341
That marie had already suffered
fatal wounds.
389
00:18:30,343 --> 00:18:32,543
Is it possible that
we're looking at two killers,
390
00:18:32,545 --> 00:18:35,279
Or is it just one trying
to send a message?
391
00:18:35,281 --> 00:18:38,316
Is it someone
with a lot of rage?
392
00:18:38,318 --> 00:18:41,352
Whatever the case,
it's clearly overkill.
393
00:18:41,354 --> 00:18:42,653
Samantha, the 2-year-old,
394
00:18:42,655 --> 00:18:45,623
Has approximately
22 blunt force injuries
395
00:18:45,625 --> 00:18:48,225
Of the head and face,
396
00:18:48,227 --> 00:18:50,762
And sabrina,
who's not even 6 weeks old--
397
00:18:50,764 --> 00:18:53,364
She's got six injuries
of her face.
398
00:18:53,366 --> 00:18:56,500
I was counting up your--
your number of hammer strikes
399
00:18:56,502 --> 00:18:58,302
On all four victims.
400
00:18:58,304 --> 00:19:00,437
It's exactly 70.
401
00:19:00,439 --> 00:19:02,073
I mean, think about that.
Think about that.
402
00:19:02,075 --> 00:19:03,474
-It's really--
-you're like...
403
00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:06,444
You know, you talk about it--
404
00:19:06,446 --> 00:19:08,246
It's horrible.
The whole case is horrible.
405
00:19:08,248 --> 00:19:10,916
It takes a special kind of evil.
406
00:19:10,918 --> 00:19:10,981
♪♪♪
407
00:19:11,182 --> 00:19:23,595
♪♪♪
408
00:19:23,597 --> 00:19:26,964
It's gonna be
an interesting discussion today,
409
00:19:26,966 --> 00:19:28,766
Going back to the house.
410
00:19:28,768 --> 00:19:32,736
Yeah. This is gonna be one
that stays with me for a while.
411
00:19:32,738 --> 00:19:34,406
[sighs]
412
00:19:34,408 --> 00:19:36,340
♪♪♪
413
00:19:36,342 --> 00:19:40,144
♪ there's nothing to hold ♪
414
00:19:40,146 --> 00:19:44,081
♪ voices and songs ♪
415
00:19:44,083 --> 00:19:52,623
♪ all about those still home
where... ♪
416
00:19:52,625 --> 00:19:54,559
In attempting to recreate
a crime scene,
417
00:19:54,561 --> 00:19:57,494
Especially when you're dealing
with four victims,
418
00:19:57,496 --> 00:19:59,563
Being able to
go to the actual place
419
00:19:59,565 --> 00:20:01,900
Where it happened is crucial.
420
00:20:01,902 --> 00:20:03,367
Looks a lot smaller
than in the pictures.
421
00:20:03,369 --> 00:20:04,702
-Yeah.
-Doesn't it?
422
00:20:04,704 --> 00:20:08,439
The altidor home has been
remodeled since then,
423
00:20:08,441 --> 00:20:09,707
But coming here today
can still give us
424
00:20:09,709 --> 00:20:13,311
An invaluable look
at what happened that day.
425
00:20:13,313 --> 00:20:14,980
Orient us. Where are we,
and what's going on here?
426
00:20:14,982 --> 00:20:16,581
All right, well...
[clears throat]
427
00:20:16,583 --> 00:20:19,117
Come in--
you come in the front door.
428
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,321
You've got the bassinet there,
so we've got sabrina.
429
00:20:23,323 --> 00:20:26,190
Kitchen left,
we've got theresia, ms. Laverne.
430
00:20:26,192 --> 00:20:29,394
And then to the right
we've got couches situated
431
00:20:29,396 --> 00:20:32,330
In essentially the same manner
where we've got samantha.
432
00:20:32,332 --> 00:20:36,334
According to old statements,
marie was very safety-conscious.
433
00:20:36,336 --> 00:20:38,002
Marie always locked her doors,
434
00:20:38,004 --> 00:20:40,504
And there was no sign
of forced entry.
435
00:20:40,506 --> 00:20:43,807
She definitely would not open
the door for a total stranger,
436
00:20:43,809 --> 00:20:46,544
So it's odd
that marie and theresia
437
00:20:46,546 --> 00:20:48,480
Were going about
their regular household duties,
438
00:20:48,482 --> 00:20:51,015
And they didn't seem to know
that there was any threat
439
00:20:51,017 --> 00:20:52,683
Until it was too late.
440
00:20:52,685 --> 00:20:54,551
What do you all say we go
to the kitchen,
441
00:20:54,553 --> 00:20:56,053
And then start going through
your thoughts?
442
00:20:56,055 --> 00:20:57,088
Absolutely. Okay. Okay.
443
00:20:57,090 --> 00:20:59,791
-So in our kitchen...
-Okay.
444
00:20:59,793 --> 00:21:03,027
...Where is theresia standing
when everything happens?
445
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:04,361
The sink's here,
and the bowl...
446
00:21:04,363 --> 00:21:06,631
-Is right there?
-It's just really peculiar.
447
00:21:06,633 --> 00:21:08,365
And, guys,
there were pots and pans
448
00:21:08,367 --> 00:21:10,234
With dinner-type food
on the stove, right?
449
00:21:10,236 --> 00:21:13,103
-Yes, I think so.
-And when she falls,
450
00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:15,306
Is she kinda like this?
Just so--just so--this way.
451
00:21:15,308 --> 00:21:17,140
She kinda falls
toward that direction.
452
00:21:17,142 --> 00:21:20,211
Okay, so I'll--
I'll be theresia.
453
00:21:20,213 --> 00:21:22,513
Chris,
what's gonna happen first?
454
00:21:22,515 --> 00:21:24,582
I'm over here with my bowl
doing my thing.
455
00:21:24,584 --> 00:21:26,785
-Okay, so I come in.
-I turn around. I've still got
456
00:21:26,787 --> 00:21:28,319
My bowl in my hand.
-Okay.
457
00:21:28,321 --> 00:21:31,722
-There you are, whoever you are.
-I strike her.
458
00:21:31,724 --> 00:21:34,693
-As hard as you can, right?
-Yes.
459
00:21:34,695 --> 00:21:36,727
-So she falls just like this?
-Yes, ma'am.
460
00:21:36,729 --> 00:21:42,200
She falls down, and then
I give her the other 22 strikes
461
00:21:42,202 --> 00:21:44,135
Because I can clearly see
the blood spatter
462
00:21:44,137 --> 00:21:47,738
Emanating all over
the pantry doors here.
463
00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:50,708
I'm gonna have to go
to the side
464
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:53,077
Because I have the blood spatter
going out
465
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:54,411
Across the kitchen...
-Okay.
466
00:21:54,413 --> 00:21:57,449
...Out into the living room,
10 to 12 feet.
467
00:21:57,451 --> 00:21:59,817
Lot of rage, overkill.
468
00:21:59,819 --> 00:22:02,287
I have to get down and dirty.
469
00:22:02,289 --> 00:22:05,490
Then I pull out the gun
just to make sure,
470
00:22:05,492 --> 00:22:06,791
And then I shoot her
right in the back of the head.
471
00:22:08,662 --> 00:22:10,227
And then marie
comes from the back
472
00:22:10,229 --> 00:22:12,730
Because she hears the--
-well, where is she coming from?
473
00:22:12,732 --> 00:22:14,298
She's coming from where I am
right here.
474
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:15,833
Oh, this wall wasn't here.
475
00:22:15,835 --> 00:22:18,402
She came from the back.
476
00:22:18,404 --> 00:22:21,805
Then he shoots her
in the left shoulder.
477
00:22:21,807 --> 00:22:26,043
And then sees she's gonna turn,
and then I shoot her again.
478
00:22:26,045 --> 00:22:29,480
And I'm turning to get away,
and I make it around.
479
00:22:29,482 --> 00:22:31,982
The china hutch is here,
and then...
480
00:22:31,984 --> 00:22:34,118
-Fall there.
-She's gonna fall on the ground.
481
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,020
-Falls on the ground.
-And then--
482
00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:38,556
Then he gives one to the back.
-[gunshot]
483
00:22:38,558 --> 00:22:39,656
Okay.
484
00:22:39,658 --> 00:22:41,526
And then one right
to the head,
485
00:22:41,528 --> 00:22:42,594
And then I start to hit.
486
00:22:42,596 --> 00:22:46,063
One, two, three, four.
487
00:22:46,065 --> 00:22:48,600
I had the spatter
coming up the blinds
488
00:22:48,602 --> 00:22:50,467
Across the floor,
489
00:22:50,469 --> 00:22:53,438
Five, six, seven.
490
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,205
19 strikes.
491
00:22:55,207 --> 00:22:56,473
That's a lot different
than just talking about it.
492
00:22:56,475 --> 00:22:57,841
It takes forever. Sure.
493
00:22:57,843 --> 00:23:00,477
Marie's gunshot wounds
were fatal,
494
00:23:00,479 --> 00:23:04,314
But her killer then struck her
19 more times with a hammer.
495
00:23:04,316 --> 00:23:08,887
This just screams of someone
filled with rage or adrenaline
496
00:23:08,889 --> 00:23:11,354
As they continue to move
through the home
497
00:23:11,356 --> 00:23:14,391
Murdering then her two babies,
498
00:23:14,393 --> 00:23:17,562
Presumably first
was 6-week-old sabrina...
499
00:23:17,564 --> 00:23:20,098
There's six strikes
to the baby.
500
00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:22,166
...Followed by
2-year-old samantha,
501
00:23:22,168 --> 00:23:23,568
Who was
hiding behind a couch.
502
00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:26,638
- And she's going to be around--
- oh, that's where she is.
503
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,307
So she's right here by
her little sister's massacre?
504
00:23:29,309 --> 00:23:30,841
- Yes.
- Yes.
505
00:23:30,843 --> 00:23:33,343
So you're looking around.
You find her.
506
00:23:33,345 --> 00:23:35,546
Again, this is a...
507
00:23:35,548 --> 00:23:38,315
- .22.
- .22.
508
00:23:38,317 --> 00:23:40,050
Okay.
509
00:23:40,052 --> 00:23:42,186
Where's our note on the wall?
510
00:23:42,188 --> 00:23:44,855
And the furniture's
accurate, right?
511
00:23:44,857 --> 00:23:46,524
Furniture is
fairly accurate, yeah,
512
00:23:46,526 --> 00:23:48,927
Where you would have
to lean over to draw on that.
513
00:23:48,929 --> 00:23:51,862
If drug dealers were trying to
send a message to george,
514
00:23:51,864 --> 00:23:54,398
It seems the murders would
have done that on their own.
515
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,401
The murders
speak for themselves.
516
00:23:56,403 --> 00:23:59,738
Why take the time to find
a marker and write on the wall?
517
00:23:59,740 --> 00:24:01,438
Why give
george nothing to live for
518
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,141
And pave the way for him
to rat you out to investigators?
519
00:24:04,143 --> 00:24:06,144
The writing
doesn't make a lot of sense
520
00:24:06,146 --> 00:24:08,212
Unless someone
wrote it to make police
521
00:24:08,214 --> 00:24:10,148
Think it was drug-related.
522
00:24:10,150 --> 00:24:12,683
The goal of all this
was murder.
523
00:24:12,685 --> 00:24:15,419
They didn't look
for one piece of valuable...
524
00:24:15,421 --> 00:24:18,355
No breaking and entering.
No damage to the door.
525
00:24:18,357 --> 00:24:20,424
The jewelry is
right there in plain view.
526
00:24:20,426 --> 00:24:21,892
This is not a ransacked house.
527
00:24:21,894 --> 00:24:23,760
After examining
this crime scene,
528
00:24:23,762 --> 00:24:25,162
It does not appear to be
529
00:24:25,164 --> 00:24:28,766
An act of revenge
or to be financially motivated.
530
00:24:28,768 --> 00:24:31,369
There was no forced entry.
531
00:24:31,371 --> 00:24:34,973
There was nothing taken,
and george's locked office
532
00:24:34,975 --> 00:24:37,708
Does not appear
to have been tampered with.
533
00:24:37,710 --> 00:24:39,643
If I came here looking
for drugs or money,
534
00:24:39,645 --> 00:24:41,246
That locked office
would have been
535
00:24:41,248 --> 00:24:42,847
The first damn place I checked.
536
00:24:42,849 --> 00:24:44,515
This is the greatest thing
for me
537
00:24:44,517 --> 00:24:46,350
That I've ever done
on this case.
538
00:24:46,352 --> 00:24:47,684
- Wonderful.
- To be able to come here
539
00:24:47,686 --> 00:24:49,921
And see the inside and...
-Re=enact everything.
540
00:24:49,923 --> 00:24:52,624
But if george is the killer,
we have a problem
541
00:24:52,626 --> 00:24:55,459
With the handwriting on the wall
not being his,
542
00:24:55,461 --> 00:24:58,395
And that 7:09 phone call
that was made
543
00:24:58,397 --> 00:25:00,798
After he had already
left for work.
544
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,533
Either george didn't do it
545
00:25:02,535 --> 00:25:04,535
And we're left
with a big old mess,
546
00:25:04,537 --> 00:25:06,270
Or george had some help.
547
00:25:06,272 --> 00:25:07,605
Is there any kind of way
548
00:25:07,607 --> 00:25:09,339
When you see it
with your own eyes
549
00:25:09,341 --> 00:25:12,276
You would ever buy
it was a drug killing?
550
00:25:12,410 --> 00:25:18,815
- No.
- Okay.
551
00:25:18,816 --> 00:25:25,221
♪♪♪
552
00:25:25,224 --> 00:25:27,758
[truck horn blows]
553
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,993
Okay, so we got
a new name, danny,
554
00:25:29,995 --> 00:25:32,563
And it's erta arty.
555
00:25:32,565 --> 00:25:35,098
We've all but ruled out
the theory that marie
556
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:37,401
And her family's murder
was drug-related,
557
00:25:37,403 --> 00:25:39,770
But if her husband george
is the one who killed,
558
00:25:39,772 --> 00:25:41,439
Then how do we explain
that the handwriting
559
00:25:41,441 --> 00:25:44,308
On the wall
does not match george's?
560
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:46,510
Or that he had
already left for work
561
00:25:46,512 --> 00:25:48,111
When we believe
that she was still alive
562
00:25:48,113 --> 00:25:50,414
Because she called
her godmother?
563
00:25:50,416 --> 00:25:52,116
Hey, erta,
this is danny smith.
564
00:25:52,118 --> 00:25:54,118
I'm with
the miramar police department.
565
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,653
Besides,
what would george's motive be
566
00:25:56,655 --> 00:25:58,589
To murder his whole family?
567
00:25:58,591 --> 00:26:00,858
We're hoping
that marie's friend erta
568
00:26:00,860 --> 00:26:03,027
Can help us figure out
if we're missing anything.
569
00:26:06,533 --> 00:26:08,832
Erta, how long did
you stay there?
570
00:26:18,077 --> 00:26:20,143
Do you happen to remember
while you were there,
571
00:26:20,145 --> 00:26:22,546
Do you think you or her mom
572
00:26:22,548 --> 00:26:26,516
Would have left, like, cooked
dinner and dirty dishes out?
573
00:26:26,518 --> 00:26:28,953
Like, didn't put food away
in the refrigerator?
574
00:26:28,955 --> 00:26:31,355
Would that happen?
575
00:26:31,357 --> 00:26:33,490
Okay.
576
00:26:33,492 --> 00:26:36,093
If marie and her mother
wouldn't leave
577
00:26:36,095 --> 00:26:39,262
Dirty pots and pans
on the stove overnight,
578
00:26:39,264 --> 00:26:40,697
Then maybe that's a clue
579
00:26:40,699 --> 00:26:42,232
That they were
murdered the night before,
580
00:26:42,234 --> 00:26:44,234
And if so,
then george would have had
581
00:26:44,236 --> 00:26:46,670
An opportunity
to commit the crime.
582
00:26:46,672 --> 00:26:50,774
But that still doesn't
explain the 7:09 phone call
583
00:26:50,776 --> 00:26:52,443
Or the writing on the wall.
584
00:26:52,445 --> 00:26:54,979
While you were there did--
did they seem to have a--
585
00:26:54,981 --> 00:26:56,581
A good marriage?
Were they happy?
586
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,589
Did he seem excited to
have a brand-new baby--george?
587
00:27:09,796 --> 00:27:13,430
So, can you compare
the way that mamie was
588
00:27:13,432 --> 00:27:16,334
Before the marriage,
before she met george?
589
00:27:30,049 --> 00:27:31,615
Yeah.
590
00:27:34,687 --> 00:27:37,621
Do you know
what the argument was over?
591
00:27:42,027 --> 00:27:45,629
Okay. Okay.
592
00:27:45,631 --> 00:27:47,165
And this is gonna be
how many days
593
00:27:47,167 --> 00:27:50,902
Before they all end up murdered?
594
00:27:50,904 --> 00:27:53,103
Okay.
Ma'am, thank you very much.
595
00:27:53,105 --> 00:27:57,041
If you think of something else,
you call us back, okay?
596
00:27:57,043 --> 00:27:58,041
All right, bye.
597
00:27:58,043 --> 00:28:00,044
She was great.
598
00:28:02,247 --> 00:28:07,852
♪♪♪
599
00:28:07,854 --> 00:28:10,053
Josetta was the one
we were hoping
600
00:28:10,055 --> 00:28:12,189
Maybe mamie talked to.
- Okay.
601
00:28:12,191 --> 00:28:14,525
[line rings]
602
00:28:14,527 --> 00:28:17,595
Hey, regine?
This is, uh, danny smith
603
00:28:17,597 --> 00:28:19,062
With the
miramar police department.
604
00:28:19,064 --> 00:28:21,599
Are you with josetta?
605
00:28:21,601 --> 00:28:22,733
Oh, okay.
606
00:28:22,735 --> 00:28:26,404
Hey, josetta?
How are you today?
607
00:28:26,406 --> 00:28:30,073
Josetta janvier had a really
close relationship with marie,
608
00:28:30,075 --> 00:28:32,276
And we're hoping
that she can give us
609
00:28:32,278 --> 00:28:34,946
Some better insight
into their marriage.
610
00:28:34,948 --> 00:28:37,615
Josetta's native languages
is creole,
611
00:28:37,617 --> 00:28:40,217
So her daughter's
joining us to help translate.
612
00:28:40,219 --> 00:28:42,085
So as you know,
we're trying to talk to
613
00:28:42,087 --> 00:28:44,888
As many people as we can
talk to that knew the family,
614
00:28:44,890 --> 00:28:48,058
That were around
before the murders happened.
615
00:29:00,706 --> 00:29:02,974
"she doesn't want to stay
with him," meaning george?
616
00:29:04,877 --> 00:29:07,244
[josetta speaks creole]
617
00:29:07,246 --> 00:29:09,045
Regine:
Really looked not good?
618
00:29:09,047 --> 00:29:10,848
Josetta:
Not for him, really.
619
00:29:13,185 --> 00:29:14,885
You can translate
if you want, regine.
620
00:29:25,331 --> 00:29:27,364
Okay, and did she say why?
621
00:29:35,007 --> 00:29:38,074
She's told that to your mom
before she ever married george
622
00:29:38,076 --> 00:29:41,211
Or after she was already
married?
623
00:29:41,213 --> 00:29:46,117
Okay. Did your mom ever see
the way george treated mamie?
624
00:29:58,897 --> 00:30:00,264
What?
625
00:30:02,367 --> 00:30:05,570
Are you saying that mamie knew
george was cheating on her?
626
00:30:07,974 --> 00:30:09,639
Damn.
627
00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:12,709
This is huge,
because according to josetta,
628
00:30:12,711 --> 00:30:15,612
Marie believed that george
was having an affair.
629
00:30:15,614 --> 00:30:18,748
If this is true,
then is it possible that george
630
00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:21,151
Just wanted to start
a brand-new life,
631
00:30:21,153 --> 00:30:23,253
And would that have
been enough to drive him
632
00:30:23,255 --> 00:30:24,721
To commit all these murders?
633
00:30:24,723 --> 00:30:25,857
-Well, thank you.
-Thank you.
634
00:30:25,859 --> 00:30:27,591
-Regine: Okay, bye-bye.
-Bye.
635
00:30:27,593 --> 00:30:27,657
Man, that was good.
That was good.
636
00:30:27,859 --> 00:30:40,270
♪♪♪
637
00:30:40,272 --> 00:30:43,073
-All in a day's work, jon.
-They're worth it.
638
00:30:43,075 --> 00:30:45,374
[knocking on door]
639
00:30:45,376 --> 00:30:47,177
If george altidor is
responsible for committing
640
00:30:47,179 --> 00:30:50,947
All these murders,
we've been trying to understand
641
00:30:50,949 --> 00:30:52,283
How a phone call
could have been made
642
00:30:52,285 --> 00:30:55,752
At 7:09 from the house
643
00:30:55,754 --> 00:30:57,954
After george
had already left for work.
644
00:30:57,956 --> 00:31:00,490
-Hello.
-Hi. Come on in.
645
00:31:00,492 --> 00:31:02,626
- Woman: Down here, manman.
- Thank you for seeing us.
646
00:31:02,628 --> 00:31:05,095
Marie's godmother,
helene mondestin,
647
00:31:05,097 --> 00:31:07,697
Is the woman that we believe
was called that morning,
648
00:31:07,699 --> 00:31:09,232
So we want to see
if she remembers
649
00:31:09,234 --> 00:31:11,235
Anything unusual
about that call.
650
00:31:11,237 --> 00:31:14,038
What we wanted
to talk about was
651
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,772
A phone call you received...
652
00:31:15,774 --> 00:31:17,607
-Yes.
-...Early in the morning.
653
00:31:21,913 --> 00:31:23,947
Okay. Okay.
654
00:31:38,530 --> 00:31:40,531
- You see?
- Okay.
655
00:31:52,144 --> 00:31:53,377
Mm-hmm.
656
00:31:58,751 --> 00:32:00,017
Okay.
657
00:32:06,024 --> 00:32:08,692
Has mamie
ever called you guys
658
00:32:08,694 --> 00:32:09,893
At 7:00 in the morning?
659
00:32:09,895 --> 00:32:11,094
- [helene] never.
- Okay.
660
00:32:11,096 --> 00:32:13,497
So this was
just out of the blue.
661
00:32:13,499 --> 00:32:15,098
How many times have
you spoken to her before?
662
00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:17,501
A lot, or many times?
663
00:32:17,503 --> 00:32:19,636
So if somebody
were to have called
664
00:32:19,638 --> 00:32:22,706
And say,
"hey, this is mamie,"
665
00:32:22,708 --> 00:32:23,673
You would have no reason--
666
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:26,910
So you have no clue
who called you?
667
00:32:26,912 --> 00:32:28,445
Mnh-mnh.
668
00:32:28,447 --> 00:32:31,315
We've been under the assumption
that marie made that call,
669
00:32:31,317 --> 00:32:35,385
But helene can't say
for sure that it was her.
670
00:32:35,387 --> 00:32:38,521
- Thank you so much.
- Good night. Drive carefully.
671
00:32:38,523 --> 00:32:39,856
- Okay, thank you.
- Night, y'all.
672
00:32:39,858 --> 00:32:41,624
Is it possible that the woman
673
00:32:41,626 --> 00:32:44,561
George was allegedly
having an affair with
674
00:32:44,563 --> 00:32:45,863
Is the one that made the call?
675
00:32:45,865 --> 00:32:49,032
And if so, did she help
with handwriting, too?
676
00:32:49,034 --> 00:32:52,335
This may change the whole
complexion of this case.
677
00:32:52,337 --> 00:32:53,603
Before the person
on the other end
678
00:32:53,605 --> 00:32:55,206
Could identify themselves
by name, she said...
679
00:32:55,208 --> 00:32:56,940
-She already said--
..."is this mamie?"
680
00:32:56,942 --> 00:32:58,575
Right, exactly.
681
00:33:01,913 --> 00:33:11,688
♪♪♪
682
00:33:11,690 --> 00:33:15,258
I never thought we'd end up
in broken arrow, oklahoma.
683
00:33:15,260 --> 00:33:17,494
George and florence
ended up here because
684
00:33:17,496 --> 00:33:20,031
They went to seminary school,
and then they moved here.
685
00:33:20,033 --> 00:33:21,498
We've traveled
to oklahoma to confront
686
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:24,334
Our suspect, george altidor.
687
00:33:24,336 --> 00:33:25,902
So we're going to be getting
there way before time
688
00:33:25,904 --> 00:33:28,706
For them to go to church.
They ought to be home.
689
00:33:28,708 --> 00:33:31,574
Depending on who answers
the door, what's your plan?
690
00:33:31,576 --> 00:33:34,511
My plan is to first of all,
introduce ourselves.
691
00:33:34,513 --> 00:33:36,646
We're the ones on the case.
We have some updates,
692
00:33:36,648 --> 00:33:38,248
And that's where--
-you think they'll invite us in?
693
00:33:38,250 --> 00:33:39,917
You never know.
Maybe things have changed.
694
00:33:39,919 --> 00:33:43,254
Maybe he is interested in--
in wanting an update
695
00:33:43,256 --> 00:33:46,589
On his two murdered daughters
and his wife.
696
00:33:46,591 --> 00:33:48,992
His whole family.
697
00:33:48,994 --> 00:33:52,529
The last time george
was approached back in 2007,
698
00:33:52,531 --> 00:33:55,732
He refused to talk
and requested an attorney.
699
00:33:55,734 --> 00:33:57,934
Moving out here gets you
a long way from miramar.
700
00:33:57,936 --> 00:33:59,869
-Oh, yeah.
-A whole different world.
701
00:33:59,871 --> 00:34:02,272
But we've now learned
about a possible motive.
702
00:34:02,274 --> 00:34:04,140
All right, let's have
good luck, y'all. Come on.
703
00:34:04,142 --> 00:34:08,411
And after 24 years,
it's time to get some answers.
704
00:34:08,413 --> 00:34:12,049
♪♪♪
705
00:34:12,051 --> 00:34:13,750
Hello.
706
00:34:13,752 --> 00:34:16,087
I'm looking for george.
707
00:34:16,089 --> 00:34:18,155
Are you george?
Hey, george.
708
00:34:18,157 --> 00:34:20,157
I'm detective zeller,
I'm the new person
709
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:22,959
On your family's case
in miramar.
710
00:34:22,961 --> 00:34:24,895
And I wanted to talk to you
about the case
711
00:34:24,897 --> 00:34:27,230
And give you some updates.
712
00:34:27,232 --> 00:34:28,932
Uh, would you like to
talk to me?
713
00:34:30,836 --> 00:34:33,636
Who's mister--
I don't know who mr. Diaz is.
714
00:34:33,638 --> 00:34:35,638
So you want me
to call your lawyer
715
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,609
So I can give you an update
on your kids' murder?
716
00:34:42,146 --> 00:34:43,947
So then talk to me, then.
717
00:34:46,785 --> 00:34:48,518
You're not the least bit
curious, as--
718
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:49,886
As far as what's going on?
719
00:34:58,997 --> 00:35:02,665
But, george, this is
your family that got murdered.
720
00:35:02,667 --> 00:35:05,603
Okay, so my point is,
is that if it's your lawyer,
721
00:35:05,605 --> 00:35:08,071
Call him. Call him now.
722
00:35:12,277 --> 00:35:14,211
Okay, this is not harassment.
723
00:35:18,350 --> 00:35:19,416
All right.
724
00:35:22,188 --> 00:35:24,854
I think I want to kiss you.
Considering how that went,
725
00:35:24,856 --> 00:35:26,424
You couldn't have done
any better.
726
00:35:26,426 --> 00:35:28,892
He looked like an idiot...
And cold,
727
00:35:28,894 --> 00:35:30,760
And she's in the background,
telling him what to say.
728
00:35:30,762 --> 00:35:32,229
I know.
729
00:35:32,231 --> 00:35:34,764
Whoo! Nice job, baby.
730
00:35:34,766 --> 00:35:37,134
George has a right
to have an attorney,
731
00:35:37,136 --> 00:35:40,704
And asking for an attorney
is no implication of guilt.
732
00:35:40,706 --> 00:35:45,509
But on the other hand,
why wouldn't you open the door
733
00:35:45,511 --> 00:35:49,446
To hear what we have
to say after 24 years?
734
00:35:49,448 --> 00:35:51,247
If he really wanted to know,
735
00:35:51,249 --> 00:35:53,583
He would say,
"let me call my lawyer.
736
00:35:53,585 --> 00:35:55,385
I'll call you back and set up
a time to come see you."
737
00:35:55,387 --> 00:35:57,720
That was pretty cold,
the way he handled it.
738
00:35:57,722 --> 00:35:57,787
He didn't care.
739
00:35:57,988 --> 00:36:06,663
[bicycle bell rings]
740
00:36:06,665 --> 00:36:09,266
♪♪♪
741
00:36:09,268 --> 00:36:11,134
- Good morning, boys.
- Morning.
742
00:36:11,136 --> 00:36:12,802
- Hey, good morning.
- Morning, morning.
743
00:36:12,804 --> 00:36:15,239
-Y'all ready to get rid of us?
-Yeah, let's do it.
744
00:36:16,876 --> 00:36:18,474
All right, so...
745
00:36:18,476 --> 00:36:22,679
There's nobody left
we need to talk to, right?
746
00:36:22,681 --> 00:36:24,747
- No.
- And we've done
747
00:36:24,749 --> 00:36:28,418
All the testing we can
and gone and talked to george.
748
00:36:28,420 --> 00:36:30,754
We've covered this, you know,
from beginning to end.
749
00:36:30,756 --> 00:36:32,889
With everything
that we've learned,
750
00:36:32,891 --> 00:36:35,559
It's time to talk
about our suspects.
751
00:36:35,561 --> 00:36:38,028
Is this truly
a drug deal gone wrong?
752
00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:41,231
Is this a drug deal where they
just hit the wrong house, right?
753
00:36:41,233 --> 00:36:43,099
So what all--
what all do we know?
754
00:36:43,101 --> 00:36:44,767
Well,
marie's not going to let him in.
755
00:36:44,769 --> 00:36:47,571
-So they would get in how?
-Forcing entry.
756
00:36:47,573 --> 00:36:49,005
They would be
kicking that door in,
757
00:36:49,007 --> 00:36:51,041
Shooting it off or something,
right?
758
00:36:51,043 --> 00:36:54,777
No breaking and entering.
No damage to the door.
759
00:36:54,779 --> 00:36:57,213
The goal of all this was murder.
760
00:36:57,215 --> 00:36:59,550
You got nothing
like that in this house.
761
00:36:59,552 --> 00:37:02,585
The big thing is
that locked office door.
762
00:37:02,587 --> 00:37:04,121
If I'm there
to look for something,
763
00:37:04,123 --> 00:37:06,257
Why would I leave a door locked?
764
00:37:06,259 --> 00:37:07,657
There could be someone in there.
765
00:37:07,659 --> 00:37:10,261
My money/drugs
could be inside there.
766
00:37:10,263 --> 00:37:12,595
And if I'm really a drug dealer,
and I'm really there
767
00:37:12,597 --> 00:37:15,365
To steal drugs and money, what
should that house look like?
768
00:37:15,367 --> 00:37:16,600
Torn apart.
769
00:37:16,602 --> 00:37:18,668
And this house
didn't look like that.
770
00:37:18,670 --> 00:37:20,603
Where do we even get
the idea that this would be
771
00:37:20,605 --> 00:37:22,505
The house
that they would want to hit?
772
00:37:22,507 --> 00:37:25,842
From the wall.
This writing on the wall
773
00:37:25,844 --> 00:37:28,112
Was alluding
to it being drug-related.
774
00:37:28,114 --> 00:37:30,546
And you're telling me
that a killer just happened
775
00:37:30,548 --> 00:37:32,615
To find a marker laying around?
776
00:37:32,617 --> 00:37:36,853
Is there anything
that makes anybody in this room
777
00:37:36,855 --> 00:37:39,622
Believe that this was truly
a random intruder
778
00:37:39,624 --> 00:37:41,491
Or a drug-related hit?
779
00:37:41,493 --> 00:37:43,026
-No.
-Nothing.
780
00:37:43,028 --> 00:37:46,496
Now let's talk
about george altidor.
781
00:37:46,498 --> 00:37:49,699
Mamie had confided in someone
782
00:37:49,701 --> 00:37:52,169
And said that she was aware
that he was cheating on her
783
00:37:52,171 --> 00:37:54,604
With the girl
that lived down the street.
784
00:38:00,912 --> 00:38:02,779
You're wondering about
the state of their marriage
785
00:38:02,781 --> 00:38:04,714
And if you have a motive,
and here we go.
786
00:38:04,716 --> 00:38:05,982
John,
what's your favorite piece?
787
00:38:05,984 --> 00:38:09,252
My favorite piece
is his ex-wife.
788
00:38:09,254 --> 00:38:13,123
The fact about him having a gun,
and she and her...
789
00:38:13,125 --> 00:38:14,290
Former boyfriend...
-Old boyfriend.
790
00:38:14,292 --> 00:38:16,659
...Were threatened at gunpoint
by george
791
00:38:16,661 --> 00:38:20,863
Saying that he could kill them,
and nobody would know.
792
00:38:20,865 --> 00:38:25,202
Yes, and now you also know,
24 years later, john,
793
00:38:25,204 --> 00:38:27,203
When you went knocking
on that door in oklahoma,
794
00:38:27,205 --> 00:38:29,539
What was george's response?
795
00:38:29,541 --> 00:38:30,740
He didn't want to hear
an update on--
796
00:38:30,742 --> 00:38:32,809
On what's going on
24 years later.
797
00:38:32,811 --> 00:38:35,445
It doesn't seem like
he gives a damn.
798
00:38:35,447 --> 00:38:38,415
You're not the least bit curious
as far as what's going on?
799
00:38:44,423 --> 00:38:47,424
And now you know
he had moved on...
800
00:38:47,426 --> 00:38:49,759
For this reason.
He was ready to move on.
801
00:38:49,761 --> 00:38:52,095
-Start a brand-new life.
-That's right.
802
00:38:52,097 --> 00:38:54,564
You know george altidor
803
00:38:54,566 --> 00:38:56,533
Didn't write the note
on the wall.
804
00:38:56,535 --> 00:38:58,469
Somebody else is involved.
805
00:38:58,471 --> 00:39:00,437
-You know that.
-Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
806
00:39:05,443 --> 00:39:09,179
So we're sitting here today
trying to figure out
807
00:39:09,181 --> 00:39:11,615
How to get around
that 7:09 phone call.
808
00:39:11,617 --> 00:39:14,618
We can't explain it,
and we can't disprove it,
809
00:39:14,620 --> 00:39:16,652
And we can't evaporate it
'cause it is what it is,
810
00:39:16,654 --> 00:39:18,088
And it's the middle
of this world.
811
00:39:18,090 --> 00:39:21,124
That phone call has been
the hurdle
812
00:39:21,126 --> 00:39:24,594
Since, you know, 1997,
and it continues to be.
813
00:39:24,596 --> 00:39:26,863
That is the one thing
that is stopping us
814
00:39:26,865 --> 00:39:28,464
Moving forward
with this case.
815
00:39:28,466 --> 00:39:31,401
We've uncovered a lot
this week,
816
00:39:31,403 --> 00:39:34,270
But we still have unanswered
questions about this phone call.
817
00:39:34,272 --> 00:39:37,107
We're hoping sometime
in the near future
818
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:40,143
We're going to be able
to get justice for marie
819
00:39:40,145 --> 00:39:42,345
And her mom and her babies.
820
00:39:42,347 --> 00:39:44,947
The whole thing of this case
just makes me sick,
821
00:39:44,949 --> 00:39:46,883
And we don't
leave any stone unturned,
822
00:39:46,885 --> 00:39:50,421
But this is
just heartbreaking.
823
00:39:51,823 --> 00:39:54,757
The only way
to ever explain that call
824
00:39:54,759 --> 00:39:57,094
Is for something brand-new
to break out
825
00:39:57,096 --> 00:40:00,696
Where somebody that knows
about that call comes forward.
826
00:40:00,698 --> 00:40:04,301
But until that happens,
this is where we are, and, uh...
827
00:40:04,303 --> 00:40:07,503
I don't know.
It makes me sick.
828
00:40:07,505 --> 00:40:09,972
Makes me sick, 'cause I thought
we could figure it out.
829
00:40:09,974 --> 00:40:11,375
Yeah.
830
00:40:13,646 --> 00:40:17,781
♪♪♪
831
00:40:17,783 --> 00:40:21,784
[seabird calling]
832
00:40:21,786 --> 00:40:24,787
♪♪♪
833
00:40:24,789 --> 00:40:26,789
You thought about what
you're going to tell 'em?
834
00:40:26,791 --> 00:40:28,992
Unfortunately,
I have had this conversation
835
00:40:28,994 --> 00:40:30,594
With them in the past.
836
00:40:30,596 --> 00:40:31,995
They never really had
their hopes up
837
00:40:31,997 --> 00:40:35,265
Like they did this time, though.
-I know.
838
00:40:35,267 --> 00:40:37,200
In this line of work,
839
00:40:37,202 --> 00:40:39,535
Having to tell a family
that we didn't get as far
840
00:40:39,537 --> 00:40:42,740
As we wanted to
is as bad as it gets.
841
00:40:42,742 --> 00:40:45,741
My heart aches
for marie's family,
842
00:40:45,743 --> 00:40:48,211
But they deserve
to know the truth.
843
00:40:48,213 --> 00:40:50,947
And unfortunately,
844
00:40:50,949 --> 00:40:54,150
Tragically, right now,
that's the best we can do.
845
00:40:54,152 --> 00:40:56,752
I guess I'll do it
like a band-aid.
846
00:40:56,754 --> 00:40:59,489
Unfortunately, we didn't
get what we were looking for.
847
00:40:59,491 --> 00:41:01,691
We got a lot of
good new information,
848
00:41:01,693 --> 00:41:04,360
But, um, that phone call,
849
00:41:04,362 --> 00:41:06,630
That 7:09 phone call...
-Yes.
850
00:41:06,632 --> 00:41:09,967
...Is, uh, that's what we're
having a hard time getting past.
851
00:41:09,969 --> 00:41:12,835
I was hoping when we came here
that we could figure that out,
852
00:41:12,837 --> 00:41:15,972
We could clear it up,
but some female
853
00:41:15,974 --> 00:41:18,241
Called from that house,
and it's--
854
00:41:18,243 --> 00:41:19,709
We're locked into that time.
855
00:41:19,711 --> 00:41:23,779
And it's so frustrating
to have these thoughts,
856
00:41:23,781 --> 00:41:25,748
But you can't quite get enough
857
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:28,652
To file charges
in a courtroom yet.
858
00:41:28,654 --> 00:41:29,720
Wow.
859
00:41:31,389 --> 00:41:32,922
I'm sorry.
860
00:41:32,924 --> 00:41:35,658
-It is hard.
-It is so hard.
861
00:41:35,660 --> 00:41:37,260
-Even more now.
-You want justice.
862
00:41:37,262 --> 00:41:38,461
-Justice.
-You want the person
863
00:41:38,463 --> 00:41:40,129
Who did this
to be held responsible.
864
00:41:40,131 --> 00:41:41,397
-Exactly. Exactly.
-Yes.
865
00:41:41,399 --> 00:41:43,266
Such a painful wound, though.
866
00:41:43,268 --> 00:41:44,802
It's like every time,
it reopens.
867
00:41:44,804 --> 00:41:46,269
-It's not like it ever closes.
-Yeah, I know.
868
00:41:46,271 --> 00:41:47,937
-But I know I feel bad...
-Yeah.
869
00:41:47,939 --> 00:41:51,407
[crying]
...For my cousin, because...
870
00:41:51,409 --> 00:41:53,210
She was just...
871
00:41:53,212 --> 00:41:55,345
It still hurts.
872
00:41:55,347 --> 00:41:58,080
It really hurts so much.
It hurts.
873
00:41:58,082 --> 00:42:02,418
And we... [sobbing]
874
00:42:02,420 --> 00:42:05,988
It's just, we want justice,
but it's just that...
875
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:08,090
This is nearly 25 years.
876
00:42:08,092 --> 00:42:12,962
[crying] we are suffering.
We are grieving every day.
877
00:42:12,964 --> 00:42:14,964
It has been 24 years,
878
00:42:14,966 --> 00:42:18,035
And every day
we are waiting for an answer.
879
00:42:18,037 --> 00:42:20,836
We are still hurting.
880
00:42:20,838 --> 00:42:22,705
We are still grieving.
881
00:42:22,707 --> 00:42:25,174
We don't have closure.
882
00:42:25,176 --> 00:42:27,244
We are hoping
for that day to come.
883
00:42:27,246 --> 00:42:29,579
It has to move forward.
I'm willing to take that risk.
884
00:42:29,581 --> 00:42:31,647
I can't speak for my cousins,
885
00:42:31,649 --> 00:42:34,850
But I plead to the state
to consider
886
00:42:34,852 --> 00:42:38,120
A circumstantial evidence case,
even with the risks.
887
00:42:38,122 --> 00:42:41,057
Because there is the pain
that we're feeling
888
00:42:41,059 --> 00:42:43,393
To come in front of a jury...
-[sobbing]
889
00:42:43,395 --> 00:42:46,996
...So that the jury can decide,
even with that phone call.
890
00:42:46,998 --> 00:42:50,067
[sobbing] it's too painful
for my cousin.
891
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:53,469
This needs to move forward,
guys.
892
00:42:53,471 --> 00:42:54,804
[sniffles]
893
00:42:54,806 --> 00:42:57,740
You need to call
the state's attorney's office
894
00:42:57,742 --> 00:43:00,209
And go have a meeting,
and you sit down in that room,
895
00:43:00,211 --> 00:43:01,545
And you tell them everything
896
00:43:01,547 --> 00:43:03,280
You just said
at this table today.
897
00:43:03,282 --> 00:43:05,882
You have the right
to do that, okay?
898
00:43:05,884 --> 00:43:06,949
-Mm-hmm.
-You have the--
899
00:43:06,951 --> 00:43:08,485
You're the victim here.
900
00:43:08,487 --> 00:43:10,486
You have the right
to have a meeting
901
00:43:10,488 --> 00:43:12,021
And get your questions
answered.
902
00:43:12,023 --> 00:43:13,489
That is your right.
903
00:43:13,491 --> 00:43:15,358
-We're not gonna lose hope.
-There you go.
904
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:16,759
-I should say. Yeah.
-There you go.
905
00:43:16,761 --> 00:43:18,762
-And you keep praying.
-Yes. It's a daily thing.
906
00:43:18,764 --> 00:43:20,729
Yeah. So sorry.
907
00:43:20,731 --> 00:43:22,365
You can't put into words
908
00:43:22,367 --> 00:43:25,035
What this family
has gone through.
909
00:43:25,037 --> 00:43:28,971
They have every right
in the world to be angry,
910
00:43:28,973 --> 00:43:30,507
And who in the hell
can blame 'em?
911
00:43:30,509 --> 00:43:34,310
All they can do now
is to continue to fight
912
00:43:34,312 --> 00:43:36,914
For their loved ones,
and our hope, all of us,
913
00:43:36,916 --> 00:43:40,383
Is that one day,
they will get justice.
914
00:43:40,385 --> 00:43:54,064
♪♪♪