Operator: 911. What's your emergency?
Woman: We got a fire over here in noble manor apartments.
Woman: ♪ searching for a way to rise above the stars ♪
This is really a kind of an interesting small town.
It's fairly crime-free.
Seems like a really good place to raise a family.
That's why the whole town of noblesville
Knows about this fire that happened 28 years ago.
Our victim, hope, who was 22,
You don't get much more innocent and sweet than her, right?
Really a sad story.
Siegler: We're in noblesville, indiana
To tackle one of the most heartbreaking cases
We've ever worked on--
The arson and murder
That took the life of 22-year-old hope brewster,
Her 2-year-old son, jacob, and her unborn child.
Hope was a wonderful mother.
Married her high school sweetheart, greg,
And they were just starting out their life.
Spingola: And then you wonder
What happened during that fire up there
That caused her and jacob to get killed
And then the unborn child, of course.
It's one thing to think about saving your own life,
But how do you stay calm when you know
It's up to you to save your 2-year-old's life?
There was no way out of that building other than jumping
Or the stairway which collapsed and burned.
I can't think of a more horrible way to die.
I can't either.
Siegler: In the early morning hours
Of February the 26, 1993,
A fire broke out at the noble manor apartment complex.
All of the approximately 20 residents of that building
Escaped, except for hope and her young son, jacob.
Her husband, greg, survived.
The odd circumstances of his escape
And his behavior that morning
Left many of the people in this town
As well as the investigators
Suspecting that maybe greg was behind the setting of the fire.
You take a look at this fire,
And there's still a lot of unanswered questions.
We don't have any eyewitnesses. Everybody's in bed.
All the debris is on top. All the water soaked everything.
I think the other thing we're dealing with here
Is that atf and the fire marshals,
The pd, and the fire department all show up.
And what happened that same day?
The world trade center bombing happened.
And waco happened. And everybody abandoned them.
Spingola: Arson cases are uniquely difficult,
But this one has been especially challenging since the beginning.
And for 28 years, hope's family has been torn apart
Wondering if greg could have actually murdered
His wife and children.
We're hoping with modern advancements
In arson investigation
That we can finally answer that question for hope's family.
Siegler: When we're looking at greg brewster,
He's either the one that's horribly evil
To set a fire to wipe out his whole family,
Or he's the biggest victim
Because he lost his wife, his son, and his unborn child.
Which one is it gonna be?
It has been 16 years and still no answers...
Police consider her killing a cult killing...
Years later, the case is still unsolved...
Siegler: I've chosen cold cases from across the country
And teamed up with the best detectives to solve them.
We're more determined than ever
To bring justice to these victims.
- Got your big file? - Got it.
Hello.
- Hello. - How are you?
- Deputy chief shannon trump. - Kelly.
- Nice to meet you. - Steve spingola, chief.
Shannon trump. Nice to meet you.
- Detective mike haskett. - Nice to meet you finally.
- Steve spingola. - Nice to meet you.
We appreciate you guys coming.
This has been a longtime case for us.
We're coming up close to 28 years.
I bet you everybody here remembers this case, right?
Yeah.
There's a lot of lingering emotions about this case,
And that's why we're glad to have you here to help us out.
- Let's go start working. - Thank you. We appreciate it.
This is a really bad event that happened in this town
And really has affected this community over the years.
It's a nice little setup.
So it has purpose for me--
To come to a resolution for them.
So, this is hope, huh?
That's her high school picture.
And she was barely out of high school, right?
Yeah. Hope was six months pregnant
At the time of the fire
And the proud mother of a 2-year-old boy,
Jacob brewster.
Siegler: That's just sad.
Trump: Hope was a young mother excited about raising a family.
She loved jacob.
She was excited about having a second child.
And to lose such young lives with a lot of potential
In an extremely tragic way,
It is important to me that we solve it.
So start with the beginning of the story.
On February 26, 1993,
The fire department was called out
To the noble manor apartment complex
For a fire that was already in progress.
When the fire department got there, they saw people
Hanging out the front of the building, out of the windows.
Everybody made it out
Except for hope brewster and her 2-year-old son, jacob.
As they sifted through the remains of the building,
They located both of them in the living room.
What did greg say happened?
He had stated that they woke up to the smell of smoke.
They go to the front door and it's hot.
So the plan was for greg to jump down out the window,
Which is on the back of the building,
And hope would then throw jacob down to him,
And then he would help catch hope as she jumped down.
Okay.
Greg brewster jumped down, landed flatfooted.
He knew something had happened to his back.
But he stands back up, turns around,
Looks up to the window, and they're gone.
After the fire was out,
There was a piece of red plastic found
At a rear entrance, exit door
Consistent with a gas can.
Taking samples and lab analysis,
We were able to piece together
That gasoline was definitely the accelerant
And that this was definitely an arson.
What was their cause of death?
Carbon monoxide intoxication and smoke inhalation.
There were no injuries found to be suspicious.
They found it to be consistent with fire-related injuries.
Okay.
In homicide cases involving arson,
The fire is often used to cover up the murder.
But in this case, the fire was the cause of death
Which widens your suspect pool.
Investigators were able to eliminate most of them,
Including the residents and guests of noble manor,
But not all of 'em.
So you wanna start with greg brewster?
We can.
How do we wanna describe their marriage?
We got people that say that it was great,
And there are others that say
That he might have been cheating.
There were rumors of an affair.
There was also concern at how quickly greg remarried--
Approximately within six months of this fire.
Did they have any issues about jacob?
Not that we know of.
Okay, so then why would greg brewster
Want to kill his 2-year-old son?
That's another unanswered question.
- That's a big one. - Mm-hmm.
Damn it, how do you kill your 2-year-old son?
It seems crazy to think
That greg would want to kill his 2-year-old son.
But the other victim in this fire was his wife,
And over 50% of female victims
Are murdered by a man that they know or live with.
What are the things that greg did that day
That we think make him look guilty?
There were concerns
That greg had jumped out of the window first.
He jumped first. What else like that?
Where they were found. How could they not be at the window
When, according to greg, they should have been at the window?
What else goes up here?
- The door being open. - Okay.
Everybody that was in that building,
His door was closed, got out fine.
Siegler: The fire investigators
Discovered that the door to the brewster apartment
Was left open, which allowed the fire and the smoke
To directly spread into their apartment,
Which is what killed hope and jacob.
According to greg, he never opened it.
But could greg have been lying?
There was concern that once greg did jump down,
He was warning people that there was a fire
And they needed to get out. He wasn't actively trying
To get back in to help his family.
Why not rescuing your own family?
I mean, I would be running to a maintenance shed
Trying to find a ladder, anything I could do
To get back up that window. I'd be trying to scale the wall.
And then it's on video.
He just, you know, calmly climbs in the ambulance.
Siegler: According to witnesses in the report,
Greg was incorrectly told by three different people
That his wife and his son had escaped the fire.
But still, according to a lot of witnesses,
Greg didn't act the way they thought that he should have.
Now greg is either left with the guilt he's had to endure
For how he did act,
Or he is rightfully smack in the middle of this investigation.
Okay. R.D. Dick.
Trump: He was the local arsonist
And became a prime suspect right away.
So, his prior conviction was for an arson
At the then clubhouse in noble manor.
- What? - Yeah.
In 1985, r.D. Dick was arrested and later convicted
For setting a fire in the clubhouse
At the noble manor apartments.
Although that was eight years prior to our victim's fire,
The fact that it was the very same building
Is very alarming to investigators.
His mother lived in that building.
And he comes home that evening,
And he goes to that building and goes to bed.
So if he's an arsonist, he's a pretty damn stupid one.
Yeah. And they take his clothing and his shoes,
And they end up sending those to the lab.
No accelerant found on any of those articles of clothing.
Spingola: Although r.D. Dick's clothes
Tested negative for gasoline at the crime lab,
We'll have to dig deeper to see if there are any parallels
Between his past crimes
And the fire that killed hope brewster and jacob.
Okay, so let's put our unknown arsonist up here.
And that building is wide open.
You just come in here and dump gas?
Finding a motive in an arson case
Is harder than it normally is in a murder case, right?
You set a fire. How do you prove
That you also meant to kill anybody,
Much less for hope and jacob to be killed?
When I'm looking at this case, I'm torn,
Because when you examine it, if greg is the killer,
It makes it a whole lot easier to solve.
But on a personal level, I hope that he's not involved,
Because then that makes him a monster,
Which is something that we don't even wanna think about.
So we're gonna go meet elaine, who's hope's sister,
Because she's about the only family member left, huh?
Okay.
A very sweet individual.
Really is just looking for some sort of answer.
Even if it's just to know who didn't do it.
Siegler: Okay.
For 28 years,
Hope's family has been tormented by the idea
That greg brewster was responsible
For the murder of hope and her sons.
Unfortunately, hope's mom passed away
Without ever being able to find out the truth.
Hello, miss elaine. I'm kelly.
But we desperately wanna give hope's sister, elaine,
The answer that she's been waiting for for so long.
We're happy to meet with you this morning.
So tell me about your family.
A very loving family.
When everything happened, this was very devastating.
It's bad enough if you're losing your parents,
But your siblings, it's different.
I know.
There's a part of me that died when hope died, too.
So...
And how did hope meet greg?
She was working at mcdonald's, and greg came through.
And then after that, they started dating and everything.
They got married the December before jacob was born.
They were excited to have a child.
Hope had always wanted to have kids.
When she had jacob, I was so happy.
At 2 years old, he could carry on a full conversation with you.
He was just this little--
Like this little man that just never stopped, you know.
And he-- he was an innocent child.
When is the first time afterwards
That you are face-to-face with greg
And you talk to him about it?
After he got released from the hospital.
And his thing
Was that she would've been right there at that window.
But that's not where she was found.
There's so many things that don't make sense.
You've spent a lot of hours trying to figure it out
Even though you know you can't know the answer?
Yep. And I'd tucked it all away until this all came back up.
I know. Does it help you any if we can figure out
If greg really was involved or really wasn't involved?
It would. Just because we were all close.
I think it would help more than anything
To know he's innocent.
You know, what, we're almost 30 years later here,
So I would love to have answers.
[singers vocalizing]
It's gonna be one of those that we just passed.
Siegler: We're gonna pass three streets first.
It should be on the right.
Siegler: In 1993, a fire was set
At the noble manor apartment complex.
The lives of hope brewster, her 2-year-old son, jacob,
And her unborn baby were tragically taken.
But we don't know if they were targeted
By their husband and father, greg brewster,
Or unfortunate victims of an arson.
There you go. I know.
You know, there are rumors that you had passed away.
[laughs] well, I'm glad to see you.
Thanks for being alive.
Siegler: Greg's questionable behavior
During and after the fire
Has put him right in the middle of this investigation.
So we've tracked down as many of the residents
Of the noble manor building that greg lived in as we could find
To see what they remember about greg's actions that night.
Trump: Did you know greg and hope back then?
I had known hope for a long time.
We worked at mcdonald's together.
Trump: Okay.
Nobody could say anything bad about her.
She was just a nice person all the way around.
She was telling me about her pregnancy.
She was really excited about it.
Umump: Walk us through what you remember from that evening.
We were all in bed. The kids were in bed.
James and I were in bed, and we're all in our underwear.
I've never slept in my underwear again.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Fair enough.
Dean: Cold and snowy. Early, early morning.
And I heard someone yelling, "the building's on fire.
Help. The building's on fire." I look outside,
And the snow was like glowing orange.
I'm like, "holy crap."
My husband at the time said not to open the door.
It kind of just went up, just like that.
We're looking around and seeing if hope and jacob--
We don't see any of them.
It's like we all realized all at once,
"oh, my god. They're still up in there."
Hope isn't around to tell us what happened in the fire.
But through these witnesses, it really puts in perspective
The panic that hope must have felt
While she was trying to do everything that she could
To save her and her babies.
And it's so tragic and crazy
To think that everybody got out but them.
Has there ever been anything that you thought was suspicious,
Thought somebody needs to look into?
What did you hear about that?
It was strange that greg was out of the apartment first
Instead of his pregnant wife and his child.
I woke up to somebody beating on my window.
And when I looked out,
It was greg brewster in his underwear.
Trump: Do you remember seeing greg brewster that night?
I remember him kind of being frantic out there.
We were just, like, kind of in a panic,
And he says he's trying to get help
Or something to that nature.
Her family was talking about why didn't he save her,
Why didn't he try harder.
I just feel like maybe he did what he could
And then it wasn't enough. I don't know.
We're hearing all about greg's strange behavior.
But it's hard to figure out if he just didn't act the way
Everybody thought he should've acted
Or if he had something to hide.
And you did or didn't know r.D. Dick?
- I just knew of him. - Of him. Okay.
I mean, I knew who he was. One of those bad guys in town.
You know who they are, so... [laughs]
Once you did see r.D.,
I assume you talked about the fire out there.
What did he say to you about the fire?
It's clear that the residents of noble manor
Have incredibly indelible memories of that night.
But, unfortunately, when it comes to who was responsible,
There's a lot of speculation and rumor.
We're gonna need a lot more than that
To figure out who set this fire that killed hope and jacob.
You ever know of any other people
That like to set fires?
Okay.
'cause, obviously, somebody around here did, right?
Kelly. Jason. Jason, this is kelly.
- Hello. - Nice to meet you.
We still got three suspects
In the tragic murder of hope brewster and her babies--
Her husband, greg,
A convicted arsonist who lived in their building,
And an unknown arsonist.
Thank you for popping in on your lunch
On such quick notice for us.
Siegler: If greg brewster did set the fire,
We wanna figure out why he would do it.
There were rumors of problems in their marriage,
But was it so bad
That any of that could have escalated to a murder?
You obviously know what we're here to talk about
Which is the fire that happened in 1993 at noble manor.
Do you remember when you were told
That hope and jacob didn't make it out?
I talked to greg quite a bit after the fact.
From what he had said--
When the apartment caught on fire,
Smoke was pouring in through the apartment.
Did he say that? "smoke pouring in."
Yeah. It was already in the apartment.
He checked the front door. The front door was blazing hot.
Greg was gonna jump, gonna catch the kid
And try to catch her.
His story is that he jumped out and popped right back up.
He broke his back when he landed.
I don't think he popped back up. I just have a feeling
That he probably landed a lot harder
Than what he thinks he did, especially if he broke his back.
If it only was just a few minutes,
That might have been enough for hope to succumb to the smoke
And that'd been it.
Siegler: Do you think that those were crucial seconds
Where maybe that's where she was at the window
And he just missed seeing her, and then she--
- That's my thoughts. - Okay.
Jason acknowledges the significance
Of greg's broken back
And the part that might have played in the fact
That hope and jacob did not make it out of that fire.
It makes you wonder if that's all it took
For hope to second-guess that escape plan.
And you said you talked to greg quite a bit after.
I did.
How did he seem?
Very distraught. Underneath, he was broken.
He just lost his family.
Did you ever hear anything before this happen,
Either from hope or from greg or from anybody,
They were having any kind of marital problems?
- No. - Affairs? Money problems?
"we got married too young." none of that?
None. Quite the opposite.
I knew that he loved hope.
It always seemed like a cohesive unit.
If you're mad at your wife or your family or your situation,
There's no logic in me
That says, "yeah. I'm gonna set my own house on fire."
No. I wouldn't see him setting it on fire
If he was unhappy or wanted to leave or...
Siegler: And to your point, how did greg feel about his son?
He loved his son.
[line ringing]
Hey. This is shannon. How are you?
- I'm good. How are you? - Good.
Missy chapman was one of hope's closest friends.
So if there were any problems in that marriage,
She's someone that would have known about it.
You were close with hope, right?
Hope and greg's relationship.
We'd had a couple of rumors of somebody cheating on somebody.
Okay.
You talked to greg after all this happened.
Yeah.
Can you walk me through his account
Of what happened that night?
Did he ever say he maybe went to open the door or tried to?
Okay.
[voice cracking]
You're okay, missy. I know how hard it is for you.
When you said greg was going out the window,
Do you think he's certain she's right by the window?
Okay. What's your gut instinct?
Yeah.
Right. I know, missy. I-- I am so sorry.
Trust me when I tell you I would not call you
And ask you to go through this if it wasn't important.
We haven't heard anything that supports a motive
For greg to want to kill his family.
But according to these witnesses,
Greg didn't open the door,
And hope and jacob were by the window.
Could greg have been lying?
Could hope have panicked and opened the door herself?
We're gonna need to recreate the events of that night
To try and figure out what happened.
Have you ever had a case where the focus of the investigation
Didn't act heroically
And people wanna turn that into a crime?
Oh, yeah.
I don't think I ever had one like that.
While some witnesses believed that greg acted odd
The night that hope and jacob were killed,
We've yet to find any motive for him to want them dead.
We know that hope and jacob died of smoke inhalation,
But what actually occurred in their apartment that night
Is still a mystery.
- Good morning. - Good morning, kelly.
Boy, we're excited to see you. We're kind of old.
When we first worked our first arson cases,
It was way different, right?
Yeah, it was.
Arson expert, stu morrison,
Has analyzed the characteristics of the fire,
And he's here today to try and help us recreate
The crime scene and share his findings.
Alarm came in at 2:45 in the morning.
From reading the fire report,
They're there until 10:17 in the morning.
So it's a good eight hours of fighting fires.
When we're looking at fire damages to determine origin,
We're looking to see what it's done to the walls,
Where the fire has burned the longest
And the fiercest or the heaviest.
So in this case, the staircase to the third floor
Being almost completely destroyed.
The fact that that is gone is significant to this.
- Siegler: Okay. - And that's consistent
Where the fire originating in the hallway and coming up.
Multiple witnesses.
We're all seeing fire burning at floor level,
On that second floor level.
Okay.
Fire goes up and out.
So if you're seeing floor-level burn,
It indicates that there's a fuel package there
Consistent with gasoline having being poured in that area.
Fires that are on staircases,
Generally it's meant for one thing,
And that's so that people can't get out.
Arsonists light fires for all kinds of reasons.
Sometimes they do it to get kicks,
And sometimes they do it to cause harm.
Based on stu's findings, it feels like this fire was set
To do a lot more than just damage property.
You can see that that fire basically went from zero to 60
In a very short period of time,
And that's consistent with gasoline.
This is me pouring less than a half a gallon
Of gasoline onto a carpet.
You'll see right here just how quickly it ignites.
And then the amount of smoke and heat
That's being generated right off the bat is significant.
Look at that. I thought it would take a while
To get that black, right?
Going to the window and going out,
You should be generally clear
Once you stick your head out that window.
- Siegler: Okay. - And last,
The door to that apartment is open,
And all that smoke is coming through.
Fire always rises up,
And then it's gonna be looking for air.
Because the area's enclosed
And the staircase doesn't know where to go,
That fire and smoke is just gonna rise up that chimney
That's being produced right up that staircase,
And there it's gonna stay until something happens.
Either the ceiling collapses, the roof burns through
And it has a way to vent through there,
Or someone opens the door
And it gets into the brewster apartment.
With that door closed,
You've basically made a fire separation
To keep the fire out in the hallway.
By opening that door and opening that window,
This is ground zero.
It's not gonna be survivable,
And it's not gonna be survivable fairly instantaneously.
Is there any explanation you can think of
On how the door could get open without somebody opening it?
Fire won't open a door until it physically burns through that.
If that door had been closed,
Arguably we should have been able
To rescue her out that window.
The brewsters' door was the only apartment door
On the complex that was open
Which caused more smoke to fill up their apartment,
And that's what led to hope and jacob's death.
But there are two big questions about the scene.
Who opened that door,
And why weren't hope and jacob by the window
Where greg claimed they would be?
We're sure these dimensions are right before we start talking?
Yeah, it's a pretty good size living room.
And over here is the dining area.
Okay.
The first theory to explore
Is that greg opened that door intentionally
Before the fire got out of hand
As part of his plan to kill his family.
Let's start with the things that we know.
We know where hope's body is found.
Hope is basically in this area.
Jacob's right where you're standing.
And then the exit window is right behind us.
Let's do common sense, logic, process of elimination.
If greg opened the door and set the fire,
Where's the gas can in that scenario?
Down on the second level.
The remains of the gas can were actually found burned
Near the rear exit on the second floor,
One floor below the bursters.
So if greg did set the fire,
He would have had to drop the gas can,
Then run back up to the third floor and actually set the fire.
There's no gasoline ever found in greg's apartment.
So they dump some gas down the stairway, down the landing.
Now he's on the second floor, right?
He dumps some in front of the doors, back out the hallway.
Drops the can of gas.
Could he have walked through the accelerant to the apartment,
Leave the door open, drops a match,
Then gets out the window? Is it possible?
Yep.
Spingola: While it is possible,
When you take a look at all the steps
Greg would've taken to actually set this fire and kill hope,
It seems very farfetched.
Number one, you think he would have left the gas can
Closer to his apartment.
And two, if hope was his target,
It's odd that he would have relied on a weapon
So unpredictable as fire,
All while endangering all of the other innocent people
In that apartment building.
If hope's the one that opens the door--
The smoke is, you know, one factor--
We can't even calculate her panic level, right?
She's dealing with her life, this life, and this life.
We know he jumps.
We know hope didn't drop the baby down.
- We know hope didn't jump. - Yeah.
So maybe she thought, "let me try that door again."
Are you saying the door's closed still?
Yes. 'cause she's thinking, "that's too far.
I can't drop him. He's too little. Greg won't catch him.
Let me try it again."
She goes all the way back to the door.
The doorknob's hot,
But she can figure out how to open the doorknob.
She opens it, comes back in,
Dragging jacob or holding jacob or whatever.
Gets this far.
That's the only thing I can figure out that makes sense.
That he didn't open the door. He just jumped.
And she thought, "I'm gonna get a better way."
Spingola: I've been in one fire.
That smoke, you can't see, you can't breathe.
It was petrifying. And I was a trained police officer.
I can hardly imagine what hope was going through
The minute the apartment was filling with smoke.
And you realize what's happening.
That had to be so chaotic.
I've seen cops in fires panic and run and do dumb things.
You're not thinking like you and I are right now.
Siegler: She doesn't know what the hell's going on.
And it got a lot worse a lot faster.
It seems more likely that hope opened that door
Because she panicked.
And in that instant, all that fire and smoke rushed in,
Killing her and her babies.
As a mother, that's horrifying.
It's also heartbreaking
To think about how everyone in this town for the last 28 years
Have considered greg to be a monster,
And now it's pretty clear that he is a victim, too.
But if greg isn't responsible for killing hope and jacob,
Then who is?
Let's give his attorney a call again.
So it's looking less and less like greg brewster
Actually had anything to do with the death of his wife and child.
But we do wanna speak to him to confirm his story.
Greg, I'm gonna ask you the big question.
Did you start this fire?
Do you know who did?
We left a message for him yesterday
Just to see what he thinks about us talking to greg again.
Greg hired an attorney two years ago
After he gave a statement in this case.
[line ringing]
Automated voice: Thank you for calling boje, benner,
Becker, markovich & hixson.
It's often believed that when a person lawyers up,
It's an indication of guilt.
But in greg's case, he's actually been very cooperative
With law enforcement over the years.
All right. Bye.
Greg's lawyer informed us that he has told law enforcement
Everything he knows about this crime.
However, he is willing to call greg
To see if he wants to talk to us one more time.
Haskett: So we're going to see r.D. Dick.
He was initially probably the main suspect.
So while we wait to hear back from greg,
We wanna take a look at the two other suspects on our board,
Starting with local arsonist r.D. Dick.
Robert, how you doing?
Although his clothes tested negative for gasoline,
Which we know was used as an accelerant in this case,
The fact that he actually lived at noble manor
And was previously convicted of an arson there
Makes him a viable suspect in this crime.
My memory, it's gone to hell. All that liquor I drank.
Well, you know why we wanna talk to you.
It's about this fire in noble manor.
Do you remember that evening, where you were at before?
I'm sure I'd been probably somewhere,
But I know that I came home and went to bed or I ate dinner.
Mom said she fixed me a tv dinner.
And I never left. I went to bed.
Mom woke me up and told me that there's a fire.
Have you ever been so drunk
That you didn't remember what you'd done?
No. Never.
Those ----ing arsons that I did, I remember them.
How many fires were you involved with, mr. Dick?
I believe it was two-- the clubhouse and the house.
Well, they thought you did four of 'em.
And possibly maybe three.
Yeah, there was cherry street. Cherry and maple.
Those were both on the same night.
They were both curtains.
Yeah, and then you're right.
I ----ing forgotten about that.
R.D. Seems a little hazy on some of his details.
It could be the passage of time,
The amount of alcohol he's consumed,
Or the fact that he's trying to be evasive.
But we need to hit him with some more pointed questions
About this crime.
This fire at noble manor,
I had nothing to do with it.
The clubhouse, I did do. I admitted that.
I was drinking one night, and I had no intention
Of even lighting that ----ing curtain
Until the minute I went to walk out.
And I just took my lighter and lit it. I admit that.
You think you were unfairly targeted with this, mr. Dick?
Well, kinda, in a way, 'cause you know me.
I was a ----ing ass, and a...
And a menace of ----ing hamilton county.
Once and for all, let's put this to bed.
Did you start this fire? No bullsh--.
- No, sir. - Convince me you didn't do it.
Why wouldn't you have done this?
Because I don't have the heart to hurt someone like that.
I never went out intentionally to ----ing hurt anybody.
The last thing I'd ever do
Is put my mom in danger way like that.
Never.
Did you ever use an accelerant-- gasoline, oil, kerosene?
No. No, sir.
Anytime I did ----ing start a little ----ing fire,
It was with a lighter.
I never used any kind of gas or anything, ever.
Spingola: In looking at r.D.'s past crimes,
We've confirmed that he has an m.O.
Of setting curtains on fire in vacant buildings.
- Take care, sir. - Uh-huh. You, too.
When we talk about an m.O., or a modus operandi,
It's learned behavior.
It's "what worked last time is gonna work this time."
It's like you and I do
Whenever we cut the grass or whenever we paint the house.
It worked last time, so let's do the same thing this time.
Arsonists have specific m.O.'s,
And they follow those religiously.
And right now, my gut is telling me r.D. Is not our guy.
Fire setters, they're just weird people
To try to figure out their dynamics and...
Haskett: Well, they're all different.
It's like sex offenders. Every one of them's different.
- How you doing? - Hi.
- Hello, guys. - This is kelly and steve.
- How you doing, sir? - Hi.
Now it's time that we address the idea
That it was an unknown arsonist who committed this fire.
Chris gellinger and joel musselman
Were firemen back then,
And we wanna see if they have any knowledge
Of other fires that were being set in noblesville
Back around the same time, with the hopes of seeing
If there are any similarities or parallels
With the noble manor fire.
How much do y'all remember about other arsons
Happening around town?
In that same time frame,
I know we had one on the north side of the square,
Similar, where somebody threw an accelerant up a stairway
And lit it.
What?
We had to pull somebody off a roof there.
We got it put out quick, so it didn't do a lot of damage.
A similar one on evans avenue.
It was thrown down small stairs into a laundry room.
This one also involves accelerant on the stairs?
I believe so, yes.
Sh--.
So you have fires prior to the brewster fire?
Correct.
All in an apartment complex,
In the stairwell, with an accelerant.
There were actually three other fires using accelerants
Within close proximity to noble manor apartments.
- Thank y'all very much. - Absolutely.
Unlike r.D. Dick's fires, these match the m.O.
Of the fire set in noble manor which killed hope and jacob.
And there's no mention of any possible suspect
In that old stuff, huh? Like it's a teenager
Or girls running away from the scene or anything.
Most of these are experienced criminals, in my opinion,
That started these fires.
These aren't some 17-year-old kids
That are gonna go and masturbate and watch this fire, you know?
Could we really be looking
For a completely different suspect in this case?
The way this fire was set,
To me this is an experienced guy.
But the other question is why did they stop.
Is he dead? Is he in jail?
Did he get arrested for something else?
What are you thinking?
I'm thinking about that unknown guy.
I know.
Okay, here we are,
Trying our hardest to look critically at these people
That have been suspected for so long.
The evidence that we've uncovered
Suggests that it was a serial arsonist
That was responsible for the deaths
Of hope and jacob and her unborn son.
Unfortunately, we do not have enough evidence
To prove who that serial arsonist is,
But we can prove the innocence of our other two suspects.
Why don't we start with r.D. Dick?
He acknowledged the other fires that he set.
Said it was always he would light curtains,
And he'd light 'em with a lighter.
I never used any kind of gas or anything, ever.
He was very straightforward about what he did in the past.
He seems to have turned his life around.
I think that all says a lot, right?
I don't think it's him.
- Do you? - I don't.
- Do you? - No.
Okay.
R.D. Dick has always been cooperative,
And he has always been consistent
In the telling of his story,
Both to civilians and to law enforcement.
It is clear that r.D. Dick is not involved with this fire.
I think we've resolved r.D. Dick.
And then we go to greg brewster.
Talk us through what you're thinking.
There's no motive. There's no means.
I knew that he loved hope.
It always seemed like a cohesive unit.
Nobody's gonna convince me that he spread this gasoline.
He's just not that devious. Greg had seconds to make a plan.
I've seen cops in fires panic and run and do dumb things.
You're not thinking like you and I are right now.
And they make a decision,
And it turns out to be fatal for three.
Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.
But that doesn't make greg the guy that did this.
He made it out the window. They didn't. It's tragic.
But I don't think it's criminal.
- I agree. - We're all agreeing
That we can once and for all tell noblesville
That he is cleared from this murder.
Right.
I think sometimes we get so caught up
In trying to figure out who committed a crime--
Because you're trying so hard
To tell everybody you found out who did it--
You forget that sometimes it's also your job
To clear out people, right?
'cause you know what? He's a victim, too.
Right.
I tried really hard to think of a case
That I've ever handled
Where someone has been-- who survived--
As victimized as greg brewster.
He lost his whole life--
His brand-new wife, his 2-year-old son,
His unborn son, his home, his friends, his job.
The man has been judged and criticized and called guilty
For something he never did, and that's horrible.
[voice breaking]
[sniffling, sobbing]
Woman: ♪ your thoughts, they stray ♪
♪ and to know it's always easier... ♪
Are you excited to talk to elaine?
Well, I think just knowing that it's not greg
Will be a big relief.
For 28 years, elaine, hope's sister,
Has had to live with the thought
That someone that her family loved as a fellow family member
Could have been the person responsible
For taking away hope and jacob and their unborn son's life.
- Good morning, miss elaine. - Good morning.
And today we're looking forward to being able to tell her
That she does not have to live with that anymore.
Well, we spent all week working on this.
We've talked to experts
That we didn't have access to before.
What I want you to know most
Is nobody's forgotten hope or jacob.
It's nice to know the town still thinks about it.
- Yeah. - They--they genuinely do.
I'm from a little town. Fires don't happen.
No. Not like this.
No. And y'all had an arsonist running around.
So trying to figure out
Who set those fires 28 years later, elaine...
Yeah.
I hope that it gives you some relief to know
That we don't believe greg started that fire.
[exhales] that's a big relief.
- Siegler: Yeah. - Big relief.
He had nothing to do with that fire.
- That's a big relief in itself. - Good.
You know, greg-- I love greg to death.
I never stopped loving greg.
It's just always been the unknown.
- Haskett: Right. - And that's cleared up today.
Greg has been more like a brother than a brother-in-law.
So to know he's innocent and free--
He can go on with his life-- means more than anything to me.
I just hope he has peace--
Peace that he realizes he's no longer a suspect.
Siegler: Yeah. Well, he doesn't know that yet.
Mike's trying to tell him.
I'm hoping he comes to town and talks to mike,
And they sit down, and then you can see him.
You know, if he's willing, I'd love to talk to him
'cause I carried around a lot of hurt.
A lot of hurt, not knowing.
You don't need to worry anymore.
- I'm not going to. - Okay.
It means to let it go.
Thank you both so, so much.
- Oh! - I know.
I know.
Stay strong.
Siegler: The hope with this case
Is that because we opened all this up again,
There is someone out there
With some information about these arsons,
And that person could come forward
And tell law enforcement what they know
To possibly give the noblesville police department
And elaine and this entire town
The answers they have been waiting for for 28 years.