1 00:00:12,946 --> 00:00:16,316 * Look in my eyes, they lie * 2 00:00:16,349 --> 00:00:18,818 * Went to hell a couple of times * 3 00:00:18,852 --> 00:00:22,322 * Can't say I don't try, I tried * 4 00:00:22,355 --> 00:00:24,991 * Now there's nowhere left to hide * 5 00:00:26,226 --> 00:00:28,762 Well, Tonya, I'd like to present you with a little challenge. 6 00:00:28,795 --> 00:00:31,364 How about-- how about a 45 year old case? 7 00:00:31,398 --> 00:00:33,933 -Thanks so much. -I know. 8 00:00:33,967 --> 00:00:37,103 -You're welcome. -July 4th, 1977. 9 00:00:37,137 --> 00:00:38,838 I'm like, am I reading that right? 10 00:00:38,872 --> 00:00:40,740 Uh-huh. 11 00:00:40,774 --> 00:00:43,343 We're in Hubbard, Ohio to tackle not our oldest case, 12 00:00:43,376 --> 00:00:45,278 but our coldest case ever. 13 00:00:45,311 --> 00:00:48,148 The 45 year old missing person case 14 00:00:48,181 --> 00:00:52,285 of dance teacher and devoted mother, Billie Lynn Groff. 15 00:00:52,318 --> 00:00:54,721 Billie Lynn was 28. 16 00:00:54,754 --> 00:00:57,524 She had a ten year old son and a seven year old daughter. 17 00:00:57,557 --> 00:01:01,194 She definitely had some independent streak going on. 18 00:01:01,227 --> 00:01:04,731 You can tell that just by, you know, her wanting to go back 19 00:01:04,764 --> 00:01:08,301 to school, the piano playing, and she had her dance lessons. 20 00:01:08,335 --> 00:01:11,538 Billie Lynn was an artist at heart. 21 00:01:11,571 --> 00:01:14,641 She was a dancer, a pianist, and she was 22 00:01:14,674 --> 00:01:17,844 also studying voice at the local university. 23 00:01:17,877 --> 00:01:20,313 But the true love of her life were her two children. 24 00:01:20,347 --> 00:01:23,983 Can you imagine coming home, it's the 4th of July and you are 25 00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:27,087 excited to get your sparklers and you're looking for your mom. 26 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,589 Then you never see her ever again. 27 00:01:29,622 --> 00:01:34,094 In July of 1977, Billie Lynn was in the process of divorcing 28 00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:37,163 her high school sweetheart, Ed, and excited about 29 00:01:37,197 --> 00:01:40,133 her future when she mysteriously disappeared. 30 00:01:40,166 --> 00:01:42,135 From what I can tell, reading the file, 31 00:01:42,168 --> 00:01:44,404 it doesn't seem like Ed was really supportive of her. 32 00:01:44,437 --> 00:01:47,340 She wasn't even allowed to practice her piano in the house. 33 00:01:47,374 --> 00:01:51,144 And it just sounds like total control and manipulation. 34 00:01:51,177 --> 00:01:53,513 Rewind the clock and think about that back then, 35 00:01:53,546 --> 00:01:55,682 getting a divorce was pretty rare. 36 00:01:55,715 --> 00:01:57,617 Divorce was kind of a no-no. 37 00:01:57,650 --> 00:02:00,053 At a time when women thought that they had limited options, 38 00:02:00,086 --> 00:02:03,056 Billie Lynn was going against the status quo saying, 39 00:02:03,056 --> 00:02:05,892 "I don't care what society says, I can do better." 40 00:02:05,925 --> 00:02:09,095 With her remains never being found, we need to figure out 41 00:02:09,129 --> 00:02:12,098 did Billie Lynn leave on her own or was she murdered? 42 00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:15,068 The police department started coordinating the dig 43 00:02:15,068 --> 00:02:17,203 a couple of days ago. 44 00:02:17,237 --> 00:02:20,507 We're hoping maybe Billie Lynn's remains will turn up. 45 00:02:20,540 --> 00:02:23,243 Law enforcement has always suspected that Ed may have 46 00:02:23,276 --> 00:02:26,746 buried Billie Lynn in the woods by his mom's house, 47 00:02:26,780 --> 00:02:28,882 but up until now, the Hubbard Police Department 48 00:02:28,915 --> 00:02:30,884 never had the resources to search that area. 49 00:02:30,917 --> 00:02:33,586 Human remain detection dogs got a hit, 50 00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:35,822 and now the digging is underway. 51 00:02:35,855 --> 00:02:38,224 And after 45 years, this could very well 52 00:02:38,258 --> 00:02:40,193 be our last chance to solve this case. 53 00:02:40,226 --> 00:02:43,096 You know, time isn't on our side. 54 00:02:43,096 --> 00:02:45,365 As far as having my hopes up that they find 55 00:02:45,398 --> 00:02:47,133 something, I don't have my hopes up. 56 00:02:47,167 --> 00:02:49,402 But if ever I thought we had a case where we might, 57 00:02:49,436 --> 00:02:50,603 this would be it. 58 00:02:59,179 --> 00:03:00,814 -Morning. -Good morning. 59 00:03:00,847 --> 00:03:02,282 -Good morning. -Hello, I'm Kelly. 60 00:03:02,315 --> 00:03:03,416 -I'm Michael. -Nice to meet you. 61 00:03:03,450 --> 00:03:05,185 Hi, Tonya Rider. 62 00:03:05,218 --> 00:03:07,053 -Howard. Nice to meet y'all. -Hi. Nice to meet you. 63 00:03:07,053 --> 00:03:09,122 So we're all excited to be here. Tonya's from Ohio. 64 00:03:09,155 --> 00:03:11,057 -Welcome back. -Yeah, thanks. 65 00:03:11,057 --> 00:03:13,093 I don't think many cops across the country have cases 66 00:03:13,126 --> 00:03:15,595 as old as this one, guys. 45 years old. 67 00:03:15,628 --> 00:03:17,464 There's not a lot of witnesses, so we gotta drag 68 00:03:17,497 --> 00:03:19,232 every little bit out of 'em that we can. 69 00:03:19,265 --> 00:03:21,634 Right. 70 00:03:21,668 --> 00:03:24,137 In 2016, I started reading the Billie Lynn Groff case 71 00:03:24,170 --> 00:03:27,173 and you just can't help to get involved at that point. 72 00:03:27,207 --> 00:03:28,975 Nice area. Thank you. 73 00:03:29,075 --> 00:03:31,444 And you want to find Billie Lynn. 74 00:03:31,478 --> 00:03:34,547 Her two kids deserve to know where she's at. 75 00:03:34,581 --> 00:03:37,117 It's frustrating to me that it's gone on so long. 76 00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:39,119 We need to get this case done. 77 00:03:39,152 --> 00:03:41,454 Let's put some pictures up of Billie Lynn. 78 00:03:41,488 --> 00:03:44,324 Golly, doesn't that look like 1977? 79 00:03:44,357 --> 00:03:45,592 -Yep. -Yeah. 80 00:03:45,625 --> 00:03:47,193 -She Was 28? -Yes. 81 00:03:47,227 --> 00:03:50,864 Billie Lynn was a mother of two and housewife. 82 00:03:50,897 --> 00:03:52,866 She did piano and dance. 83 00:03:52,899 --> 00:03:56,603 She was attending YSU and had friends and everybody liked her. 84 00:03:56,636 --> 00:03:58,738 She was just a gentle soul. 85 00:03:58,772 --> 00:04:00,540 So this is Billie Lynn with her oldest Mark. 86 00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:03,043 And her and Ed, they got married real young, right? 87 00:04:03,076 --> 00:04:05,078 Yeah. They were high school sweethearts. 88 00:04:05,111 --> 00:04:08,548 Billie Lynn and Ed had a very tumultuous marriage 89 00:04:08,581 --> 00:04:11,685 and after ten years, she filed for divorce. 90 00:04:11,718 --> 00:04:15,388 Her divorce lawyer advised her to remain in the house 91 00:04:15,422 --> 00:04:18,491 for fear that if she didn't, she could lose the house 92 00:04:18,525 --> 00:04:22,062 and custody of her son Mark and her daughter Michelle. 93 00:04:22,062 --> 00:04:25,398 Sadly, it was her children who lost their mom. 94 00:04:25,432 --> 00:04:27,367 July the 4th. 95 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,203 Imagine what that means to Mark and Michelle. 96 00:04:30,236 --> 00:04:31,571 -July 4th. -I know. 97 00:04:31,604 --> 00:04:32,772 -Every year. -Yeah. 98 00:04:32,806 --> 00:04:35,075 It's ruined forever. 99 00:04:35,108 --> 00:04:39,546 Okay. So what's the beginning of the story? 100 00:04:39,579 --> 00:04:43,249 On July 4th, 1977, which was a Monday, 101 00:04:43,283 --> 00:04:46,419 Billie Lynn was at the Presbyterian church, 102 00:04:46,453 --> 00:04:48,855 was just down on the street from where they lived. 103 00:04:48,888 --> 00:04:51,858 Ed and Mark and Michelle had went to the Ox Roast. 104 00:04:51,891 --> 00:04:55,095 Was that like a 4th of July celebration for the whole town? 105 00:04:55,128 --> 00:04:59,566 Yep. They would block off a square. They would have food. 106 00:04:59,599 --> 00:05:02,302 Do we know why Billie didn't go to the Ox Roast? 107 00:05:02,335 --> 00:05:05,071 She went to the church to practice her piano. 108 00:05:05,105 --> 00:05:07,040 She never was gonna go to it, so. 109 00:05:07,073 --> 00:05:09,409 After the Ox Roast, Ed's children rode home 110 00:05:09,442 --> 00:05:11,578 with their grandmother and Aunt Janice. 111 00:05:11,611 --> 00:05:14,247 The plan was to continue the Independence Day 112 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:16,683 celebration at home with Billie Lynn. 113 00:05:16,716 --> 00:05:18,051 They're looking for the sparklers, 114 00:05:18,084 --> 00:05:19,786 -Michelle comes outside. -Yeah. 115 00:05:19,819 --> 00:05:21,588 So Michelle says she can't find her mommy, 116 00:05:21,621 --> 00:05:22,889 and she goes, "Maybe she's in bed." 117 00:05:22,922 --> 00:05:24,791 She goes, "No, I looked." 118 00:05:24,824 --> 00:05:27,761 Edward walks up, and Janice asked him where Billie Lynn was. 119 00:05:27,794 --> 00:05:29,929 And he goes like, "Well, I don't, I don't know." 120 00:05:29,963 --> 00:05:32,432 So then the next day she doesn't come to class. 121 00:05:32,465 --> 00:05:34,668 They start getting worried, and they call Ed, 122 00:05:34,701 --> 00:05:38,138 and they pressured him to-- to report her missing. 123 00:05:38,171 --> 00:05:41,174 -Two days later. Okay. -Two days later. 124 00:05:41,207 --> 00:05:44,144 According to the file, when Ed reported Billie Lynn missing, 125 00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:47,781 he did not seem overly concerned about her whereabouts, 126 00:05:47,814 --> 00:05:51,751 but he did hand the police this four page manifesto that 127 00:05:51,785 --> 00:05:55,422 outlined all of her shortcomings as a wife and a mother. 128 00:05:55,455 --> 00:05:59,092 Ed's odd behavior raised some red flags, and so he became 129 00:05:59,125 --> 00:06:01,861 the prime suspect in her missing person case. 130 00:06:01,895 --> 00:06:04,030 Edward Groff. 131 00:06:04,064 --> 00:06:07,600 What do we know about Edward's personality? 132 00:06:07,634 --> 00:06:09,302 Highly controlling. 133 00:06:09,336 --> 00:06:11,204 You know, he didn't like her attending college. 134 00:06:11,237 --> 00:06:13,173 He called it brainwashing. 135 00:06:13,206 --> 00:06:16,876 He didn't like her associating with other people. 136 00:06:16,910 --> 00:06:19,279 Ed disapproved of Billie Lynn's relationships and even 137 00:06:19,312 --> 00:06:22,048 accused her of having an affair with a professor. 138 00:06:22,048 --> 00:06:23,850 There's no evidence that she was, 139 00:06:23,883 --> 00:06:27,587 but is it possible Ed thought he was losing his control 140 00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:29,255 and Billie Lynn filing for divorce 141 00:06:29,289 --> 00:06:30,690 pushed him over the edge? 142 00:06:30,724 --> 00:06:32,525 He's got a short temper. 143 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:34,828 When is the first we know about bruises on Billie Lynn? 144 00:06:34,861 --> 00:06:37,197 From the college friends. 145 00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:39,532 The neighbor back at that time reported it as well. 146 00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:41,234 Bruises on her arms. 147 00:06:41,267 --> 00:06:42,702 Anybody ever see any choke marks 148 00:06:42,736 --> 00:06:44,537 or hear any strangulation stories? 149 00:06:44,571 --> 00:06:47,073 Not that we know of right now. 150 00:06:47,073 --> 00:06:49,709 On July the 4th, she goes to the church to practice her piano. 151 00:06:49,743 --> 00:06:53,079 Billie Lynn told a friend that before the Ox Roast, 152 00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:55,782 Ed snuck up on her at the church. 153 00:06:55,815 --> 00:06:57,450 We don't know what they argued about. 154 00:06:57,484 --> 00:06:59,686 She said that he jostled her around. 155 00:06:59,719 --> 00:07:02,389 Hours before she goes missing. 156 00:07:02,422 --> 00:07:05,859 Ed has the only known motive to want Billie Lynn dead. 157 00:07:05,892 --> 00:07:08,495 But the initial reports show that he was 158 00:07:08,528 --> 00:07:12,365 at the Ox Roast all night, so he has the perfect alibi. 159 00:07:12,399 --> 00:07:14,267 Is there something we're missing? 160 00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:16,503 Think of all the reasons why you could make 161 00:07:16,536 --> 00:07:19,806 the argument that Billie Lynn really did just run away. 162 00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:22,709 -He was abusive. -Could get away from the abuse. 163 00:07:22,742 --> 00:07:25,845 Billie's father had given her around a thousand dollars 164 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:27,914 just prior to her disappearance. 165 00:07:27,947 --> 00:07:29,916 So I mean, she would've had a little bit of money. 166 00:07:29,949 --> 00:07:31,584 -Yeah. -She outgrew him. 167 00:07:31,618 --> 00:07:33,753 -So she was becoming more-- -Independent. 168 00:07:33,787 --> 00:07:36,356 -Independent. -Who files for the divorce? 169 00:07:36,389 --> 00:07:39,359 -She did first. -Divorce a factor? 170 00:07:39,392 --> 00:07:42,562 We can figure it out. I mean, those are all pretty big things. 171 00:07:42,595 --> 00:07:44,931 Any one of 'em would be enough to make you run away 172 00:07:44,964 --> 00:07:46,533 if it's true. 173 00:07:46,566 --> 00:07:49,135 Cold cases are basically solved two ways. 174 00:07:49,169 --> 00:07:52,439 Either you get really lucky with physical evidence like finding 175 00:07:52,472 --> 00:07:55,909 the body or having DNA or with circumstantial evidence. 176 00:07:55,942 --> 00:07:59,879 So while we're hopeful for the dig, our goal is to try 177 00:07:59,913 --> 00:08:01,681 and build a circumstantial evidence case 178 00:08:01,715 --> 00:08:03,616 by talking to witnesses. 179 00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:06,119 We're gonna need to gather every little piece of information 180 00:08:06,152 --> 00:08:09,389 from them to try and figure out what happened to Billie Lynn. 181 00:08:09,422 --> 00:08:12,058 It's a pretty good board, even without finding remains. 182 00:08:12,092 --> 00:08:13,827 Yeah. 183 00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:15,562 And we're hoping that you get a miracle, 184 00:08:15,595 --> 00:08:17,397 but that will be a miracle. 185 00:08:19,899 --> 00:08:24,070 ["Crimes" by Katie Ainge] 186 00:08:24,104 --> 00:08:28,541 * I can't travel far enough * 187 00:08:28,575 --> 00:08:31,745 * I can't find a place to hide * 188 00:08:31,778 --> 00:08:34,914 We're excited to go check out the dig site. 189 00:08:34,948 --> 00:08:37,584 But first, we wanna meet Billie Lynn's children. 190 00:08:37,617 --> 00:08:41,621 Thank you. 191 00:08:41,654 --> 00:08:43,523 Nice to meet you. 192 00:08:44,858 --> 00:08:46,292 We're excited to come see y'all 193 00:08:46,326 --> 00:08:48,428 and talk to y'all about everything. 194 00:08:48,461 --> 00:08:51,131 We appreciate you coming here and trying to help us. 195 00:08:51,164 --> 00:08:53,833 Hopefully get some closure. What we're all hoping for. 196 00:08:53,867 --> 00:08:55,669 That's what we're hoping for, Mike. 197 00:08:55,702 --> 00:08:58,972 I've been working with some remain detection dogs. 198 00:08:59,072 --> 00:09:00,774 We're trying to look for your mom. 199 00:09:00,807 --> 00:09:02,609 I don't wanna give you false hope 200 00:09:02,642 --> 00:09:04,811 that we're gonna find her there. It's still a long shot. 201 00:09:04,844 --> 00:09:06,513 But Michelle, listen, we're coming at this 202 00:09:06,546 --> 00:09:08,214 from two kind of different points of view. 203 00:09:08,248 --> 00:09:10,283 Mike is very excited that something is gonna 204 00:09:10,316 --> 00:09:11,918 happen with this dig, and he's doing everything 205 00:09:12,018 --> 00:09:13,820 he can to try and make that happen. 206 00:09:13,853 --> 00:09:17,490 My goal and plan here with Mike is to try and find every 207 00:09:17,524 --> 00:09:20,493 name in the file of every single person that lived 208 00:09:20,527 --> 00:09:24,197 in your mom and dad's world 45 years ago to see what can they 209 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:26,633 say that's admissible in the courtroom today. 210 00:09:26,666 --> 00:09:28,935 And is that enough to put the case together? 211 00:09:29,035 --> 00:09:33,073 You were so little, but how much do you remember about your mom? 212 00:09:34,708 --> 00:09:36,843 -Not a-- not a lot. -Okay. 213 00:09:36,876 --> 00:09:40,847 My mom was a dancer, and she taught dancing in our basement. 214 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,316 And that's how she was known in the community. 215 00:09:43,350 --> 00:09:45,218 Everybody just loved her. 216 00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:46,853 It was just like what you did on Saturdays 217 00:09:46,886 --> 00:09:48,722 was went to Billie Lynn's and danced. 218 00:09:48,755 --> 00:09:53,226 My mom was just a genuine good person, very easygoing. 219 00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:58,198 She was the type of person that, once you met her, you liked her. 220 00:09:58,231 --> 00:10:01,234 I mean, she just had that personality. 221 00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:06,039 It just weights on you. That hurt doesn't go away. 222 00:10:06,072 --> 00:10:08,441 It's-- it's difficult. 223 00:10:11,077 --> 00:10:14,180 How much do you remember about that July the 4th? 224 00:10:14,214 --> 00:10:16,016 I don't really remember. 225 00:10:16,049 --> 00:10:17,751 -Okay. -I go blank. 226 00:10:17,784 --> 00:10:21,654 After July the 4th, did there ever happen 227 00:10:21,688 --> 00:10:23,423 a conversation or a confrontation 228 00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:25,025 where you said anything to him about-- 229 00:10:25,058 --> 00:10:26,893 We weren't allowed. It was forbidden. 230 00:10:26,926 --> 00:10:29,329 He never spoke of it. He never spoke of it. 231 00:10:29,362 --> 00:10:31,164 He said, "Don't ever talk to me about that again." 232 00:10:31,197 --> 00:10:32,999 Your dad told you that? 233 00:10:33,033 --> 00:10:34,934 Yeah. And this was shortly after it happened. 234 00:10:34,968 --> 00:10:36,503 Wow. 235 00:10:36,536 --> 00:10:38,004 Every belonging of hers was just gone. 236 00:10:38,038 --> 00:10:39,706 It was out of the house. 237 00:10:39,739 --> 00:10:41,841 You couldn't have nothing in your room, 238 00:10:41,875 --> 00:10:44,244 no pictures of her in your room or anything like that. 239 00:10:44,277 --> 00:10:46,980 I would lay in bed a lot and cry, especially at night. 240 00:10:47,013 --> 00:10:48,982 He would just close the door 241 00:10:49,015 --> 00:10:51,484 and then he just ignored me after that. 242 00:10:51,518 --> 00:10:53,820 Not try to comfort you? 243 00:10:53,853 --> 00:10:55,622 -No. -I don't know how you do that. 244 00:10:55,655 --> 00:10:57,657 You know, be that cold. 245 00:10:57,691 --> 00:10:59,959 I don't have anything to say nice about him. 246 00:11:00,060 --> 00:11:01,628 Nothing positive at all. 247 00:11:01,661 --> 00:11:03,897 I tried to steer clear of him. 248 00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:06,099 I just knew that it was an unspoken subject 249 00:11:06,132 --> 00:11:09,336 not to talk about. 250 00:11:09,369 --> 00:11:11,938 Having to grow up without a mom, 251 00:11:11,971 --> 00:11:14,474 there's been a lot of lonely times. 252 00:11:14,507 --> 00:11:17,711 The first seven years of my life, she gave me 253 00:11:17,744 --> 00:11:21,481 the influence to be the nurturing person that I am. 254 00:11:21,514 --> 00:11:23,483 And I'm thankful for that. 255 00:11:23,516 --> 00:11:26,086 And the-- I just try to carry that on in my life and through 256 00:11:26,086 --> 00:11:29,556 my kids as she would want me to, you know? 257 00:11:29,589 --> 00:11:32,092 So that's how I try to live my life each day. 258 00:11:32,125 --> 00:11:34,928 Can you talk about your dad's temper? 259 00:11:34,961 --> 00:11:40,266 Anytime he would lose control is when the rage came. 260 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:43,470 If he felt for a second that she had another friend, 261 00:11:43,503 --> 00:11:47,440 male or female, that's when he exploded. 262 00:11:47,474 --> 00:11:49,642 Whatever it is he had to do, he was gonna do. 263 00:11:49,676 --> 00:11:52,212 He was stopping her from going to visit other people? 264 00:11:52,245 --> 00:11:54,347 -Yeah. -He was just mean and angry 265 00:11:54,381 --> 00:11:56,282 at-- at-- at everything and everyone. 266 00:11:56,316 --> 00:11:58,885 How much were you aware about the divorce? 267 00:11:58,918 --> 00:12:02,389 Just that they were planning it. I don't think I knew that much. 268 00:12:02,422 --> 00:12:05,492 My mom's attorney told her that she wasn't allowed to leave 269 00:12:05,525 --> 00:12:08,061 the house because she wouldn't get Mark and I. 270 00:12:08,061 --> 00:12:10,063 So she stayed in the house and took the abuse 271 00:12:10,063 --> 00:12:13,366 for fear of leaving, losing us. 272 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,735 If she stayed there because she wanted to keep us, 273 00:12:15,769 --> 00:12:17,604 -why would she leave us? -Exactly. 274 00:12:17,637 --> 00:12:21,341 A lot of cold cases go cold for all kinds of reasons. 275 00:12:21,374 --> 00:12:23,643 -And we're hoping-- -Like, I understand what 276 00:12:23,677 --> 00:12:26,513 you're trying to do, but it's a lot of years to live with. 277 00:12:26,546 --> 00:12:30,216 -You know? -I do. I wanna scream sometimes. 278 00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:33,086 I wanna scream, like, it's-- it's frustrating. 279 00:12:33,086 --> 00:12:35,655 We're gonna try. We're trying so hard. 280 00:12:35,689 --> 00:12:37,357 Thank you for everything you're doing. 281 00:12:37,390 --> 00:12:39,359 -You're welcome. -Thanks. Appreciate it. 282 00:12:39,392 --> 00:12:45,398 Wow. You walk in the room, and you can feel anger and sorrow. 283 00:12:45,432 --> 00:12:50,103 Their whole world changed on the 4th of July, 1977, 284 00:12:50,136 --> 00:12:51,905 and they were babies. 285 00:12:51,938 --> 00:12:53,940 And they're still trying to deal with it and process it 286 00:12:53,973 --> 00:12:55,608 for a lifetime. 287 00:12:55,642 --> 00:12:58,111 And it's time that we do something about it, 288 00:12:58,111 --> 00:13:00,880 and I just really hope we can. 289 00:13:00,914 --> 00:13:03,883 -Thanks, Mike. -You're welcome. 290 00:13:03,917 --> 00:13:14,294 *** 291 00:13:14,327 --> 00:13:18,398 [broodi***music] 292 00:13:18,431 --> 00:13:23,336 In July of 1977, Billie Lynn Groff mysteriously disappeared. 293 00:13:23,370 --> 00:13:25,872 Let's go see. 294 00:13:25,905 --> 00:13:28,208 The police have been investigating 295 00:13:28,241 --> 00:13:30,310 that her husband of ten years, Ed Groff, 296 00:13:30,343 --> 00:13:33,146 may have killed her and buried her near his mother's house. 297 00:13:33,179 --> 00:13:37,550 So the dig is on to see if we can locate her remains. 298 00:13:37,584 --> 00:13:39,986 Okay. So give us an orientation of what's-- 299 00:13:40,086 --> 00:13:42,655 what's the strategy and layout plan for the dig. 300 00:13:42,689 --> 00:13:44,190 And which way is the house? 301 00:13:44,224 --> 00:13:46,092 Basically, like, right through that-- 302 00:13:46,092 --> 00:13:48,128 Right through there's the house? 303 00:13:48,161 --> 00:13:50,263 Right. We cleared that area, so we decided to check this area. 304 00:13:50,296 --> 00:13:52,565 This tall tree that's standing there now 305 00:13:52,599 --> 00:13:56,536 was the first location one of our dogs hit on. 306 00:13:56,569 --> 00:13:58,538 Oh wow. Okay. 307 00:13:58,571 --> 00:14:02,275 Our stump over there is where the second dog alerted first. 308 00:14:02,308 --> 00:14:04,944 And we had a couple of hits in the middle, 309 00:14:05,045 --> 00:14:07,614 and then one over on this wood line. 310 00:14:07,647 --> 00:14:11,084 Odors can get drawn up into trees through the root systems. 311 00:14:11,117 --> 00:14:14,087 So we picked an area that was kinda in the middle of all that, 312 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,556 and we are-- we are working our way out from there. 313 00:14:16,589 --> 00:14:19,225 While cadaver dogs can be eerily accurate 314 00:14:19,259 --> 00:14:23,363 at detecting human remains, it's been over 45 years, 315 00:14:23,396 --> 00:14:24,931 and that scent and the bones 316 00:14:24,964 --> 00:14:27,067 could have moved through the soil. 317 00:14:27,067 --> 00:14:29,769 So even if Billie Lynn's remains were here, 318 00:14:29,803 --> 00:14:31,371 finding them in this vast area 319 00:14:31,404 --> 00:14:33,206 is gonna be a heck of a challenge. 320 00:14:33,239 --> 00:14:35,175 All right. Well, thank you for showing us this. 321 00:14:35,208 --> 00:14:37,544 For now, y'all wanna just go start talking to witnesses? 322 00:14:37,577 --> 00:14:39,479 -Sounds good. -All right. Let's go, let's go. 323 00:14:41,581 --> 00:14:43,717 *** 324 00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:46,219 Let me get together all the phone calls we can make 325 00:14:46,252 --> 00:14:48,121 and we'll get some coffee and start doing that. 326 00:14:48,154 --> 00:14:50,156 Yeah. I thought we would just go straight down. 327 00:14:51,591 --> 00:14:54,127 Hi, doctor. Thanks for meeting with us. 328 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,729 Sure. 329 00:14:55,762 --> 00:14:57,964 It's time to start talking to witnesses, 330 00:14:57,997 --> 00:15:00,600 and we need to track down every single one of them. 331 00:15:00,633 --> 00:15:03,036 Hi, this is Sergeant Mike Banic from Hubbard City Police. 332 00:15:03,036 --> 00:15:05,271 But after 45 years, that's a challenge. 333 00:15:05,305 --> 00:15:07,340 Do you remember that case at all? 334 00:15:07,374 --> 00:15:10,043 It doesn't ring any bells, I'll be honest with you. 335 00:15:10,043 --> 00:15:13,046 Can we find them? Are they even still alive? 336 00:15:13,046 --> 00:15:15,081 And if they are, are they gonna remember 337 00:15:15,115 --> 00:15:17,450 all the details that they used to know 45 years ago? 338 00:15:17,484 --> 00:15:21,654 I'm looking for a guy that used to know a fella named Ed Groff. 339 00:15:21,688 --> 00:15:23,690 Is that you, by chance? 340 00:15:26,292 --> 00:15:28,895 We need to keep dialing and keep knocking 341 00:15:28,928 --> 00:15:32,499 and keep praying and hoping that God is on our side in this case. 342 00:15:32,532 --> 00:15:34,801 Had you heard about the disappearance in Hubbard? 343 00:15:34,834 --> 00:15:41,474 I did hear about it, but I know absolutely nothing about it. 344 00:15:41,508 --> 00:15:43,443 We're sorry. 345 00:15:43,476 --> 00:15:45,578 You have reached a number that has been dis-- 346 00:15:45,612 --> 00:15:48,281 Hi, I'm Detective Mike Banic. I'm looking for Amanda. 347 00:15:48,314 --> 00:15:49,582 Right here. Hello? 348 00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:51,284 -That's you? -Yeah. Hi. 349 00:15:51,317 --> 00:15:53,086 Kinda young for the one we're looking for. 350 00:15:53,086 --> 00:15:54,754 [laughs] 351 00:15:54,788 --> 00:15:56,823 Thanks for calling today. 352 00:15:56,856 --> 00:15:58,958 You'll have the opportunity to receive a $100 353 00:15:58,992 --> 00:16:00,794 -retail rebate voucher. -That sounds legit. 354 00:16:00,827 --> 00:16:02,562 Which you can redeem 355 00:16:02,595 --> 00:16:04,464 from your purchases at major retail-- 356 00:16:04,497 --> 00:16:07,300 We were all just good friends in school 357 00:16:07,334 --> 00:16:09,669 and we always honored Billie Lynn. 358 00:16:09,703 --> 00:16:12,072 We just felt so bad that she disappeared. 359 00:16:12,105 --> 00:16:15,175 We could never hear or finding her or anything. 360 00:16:15,208 --> 00:16:17,210 So y'all were all in the same class? 361 00:16:17,243 --> 00:16:19,746 -Yeah, 1966. -You and Billie Lynn and Eddie? 362 00:16:19,779 --> 00:16:21,748 -All also, yeah. All of us. -Wow. 363 00:16:21,781 --> 00:16:23,883 We finally got some luck. 364 00:16:23,917 --> 00:16:27,053 We found this high school friend of Billie Lynn and Ed, 365 00:16:27,087 --> 00:16:28,888 who's willing to talk to us. 366 00:16:28,922 --> 00:16:31,191 Let's hope she remembers something. 367 00:16:31,224 --> 00:16:35,528 Billie Lynn and Eddie, they were going together in school. 368 00:16:35,562 --> 00:16:38,131 What could you tell us about Billie? 369 00:16:38,164 --> 00:16:39,699 She was nice. 370 00:16:39,733 --> 00:16:41,668 I mean, she was friendly, outgoing, 371 00:16:41,701 --> 00:16:43,303 but she was sheltered with Eddie. 372 00:16:43,336 --> 00:16:45,071 He was just controlling. 373 00:16:45,071 --> 00:16:46,840 You wouldn't see her talking to nobody else. 374 00:16:46,873 --> 00:16:48,475 No way. Mm-mm. 375 00:16:48,508 --> 00:16:51,678 We was just so surprised that she married him now. 376 00:16:51,711 --> 00:16:53,313 I mean, he actually locked her in a locker. 377 00:16:53,346 --> 00:16:54,981 -Inside the locker? -Yeah. 378 00:16:55,081 --> 00:16:57,183 Did she ever talk about him hitting her or? 379 00:16:57,217 --> 00:16:58,885 He was a touchy subject. 380 00:16:58,918 --> 00:17:01,287 But in those days that's how it was. 381 00:17:01,321 --> 00:17:03,590 You kept things to yourself and you were scared 382 00:17:03,623 --> 00:17:05,258 to talk to people about it. 383 00:17:05,291 --> 00:17:07,093 Or do anything about it. 384 00:17:07,127 --> 00:17:08,762 Getting a divorce was a big deal. 385 00:17:08,795 --> 00:17:10,630 Big deal. You just didn't do that. 386 00:17:10,663 --> 00:17:14,034 At a time when getting divorced was really rare, 387 00:17:14,034 --> 00:17:16,603 Billie Lynn was determined to do something. 388 00:17:16,636 --> 00:17:18,438 And I think that's a pretty good indication 389 00:17:18,471 --> 00:17:20,607 of how bad her marriage was. 390 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,609 It seems like she was more fearful of Ed 391 00:17:22,642 --> 00:17:25,412 than she was of the stigma of being divorced. 392 00:17:25,445 --> 00:17:28,281 What do you think would've happened based on all you saw, 393 00:17:28,314 --> 00:17:30,050 if she had tried to break up with him? 394 00:17:30,050 --> 00:17:33,853 Oh, he would definitely [laughs] landed her. 395 00:17:33,887 --> 00:17:35,955 When you say landed, you mean he would've-- 396 00:17:36,056 --> 00:17:38,291 -he would've hit-- -Did something to her. Yeah. 397 00:17:40,894 --> 00:17:46,132 *** 398 00:17:46,166 --> 00:17:47,801 [phone line ringing] 399 00:17:47,834 --> 00:17:50,103 -Hello? -Hello, this is Sergeant Haney 400 00:17:50,136 --> 00:17:51,905 with the City of Hubbard Police Department. 401 00:17:51,938 --> 00:17:54,140 We need to talk to a close friend of Billie Lynn's. 402 00:17:54,174 --> 00:17:56,276 She may have insight into her state of mind 403 00:17:56,309 --> 00:17:58,912 and the emotional toll of her strained marriage. 404 00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:01,181 It looks like you-- you guys were pretty good friends 405 00:18:01,214 --> 00:18:02,882 and you guys were also neighbors. 406 00:18:04,017 --> 00:18:05,352 Do you remember the last 407 00:18:05,385 --> 00:18:07,253 conversation you had with Billie? 408 00:18:13,226 --> 00:18:15,528 Did she ever give you any explanation 409 00:18:15,562 --> 00:18:17,364 as to why he would get upset 410 00:18:17,397 --> 00:18:20,667 and caused the bruises or the broken door? 411 00:18:26,639 --> 00:18:29,175 Did you have any dealings with him after the disappearance? 412 00:18:29,209 --> 00:18:30,910 Did you ever meet him after? 413 00:18:44,491 --> 00:18:46,893 Do you think she would've left her children? 414 00:18:55,502 --> 00:18:57,504 Yeah. 415 00:18:57,537 --> 00:18:59,839 It's hard to imagine a mother leaving her children, 416 00:18:59,873 --> 00:19:02,409 but the hesitation in her voice, it speaks volumes. 417 00:19:02,442 --> 00:19:04,711 She knew as well as anyone the dire circumstances 418 00:19:04,744 --> 00:19:07,013 that Billie Lynn was facing. 419 00:19:07,013 --> 00:19:09,883 For all the reasons that people suspected that Ed killed her, 420 00:19:09,916 --> 00:19:12,652 they also could have been the motivation for her to escape. 421 00:19:20,694 --> 00:19:24,898 *** 422 00:19:31,104 --> 00:19:34,374 Did anybody call y'all back on our witness list? 423 00:19:34,407 --> 00:19:36,242 Well, it-- it wasn't fruitful. 424 00:19:36,276 --> 00:19:39,045 We had one lead that I followed and-- 425 00:19:39,079 --> 00:19:41,681 and it's a 95 year old man that is local, 426 00:19:41,715 --> 00:19:44,718 but he has no recollection of the name or any of this. 427 00:19:44,751 --> 00:19:46,219 Okay. 428 00:19:46,252 --> 00:19:48,088 We did speak with a polygrapher. 429 00:19:48,121 --> 00:19:50,357 He said that he doesn't recall the interview. 430 00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:53,526 He's done over 7,000 interviews, plus he's 85 years old. 431 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,462 It's always a long shot, but we always try 432 00:19:55,495 --> 00:19:56,696 'cause sometimes you get lucky. 433 00:19:56,730 --> 00:19:58,531 -Right. Yeah. -Okay. 434 00:19:58,565 --> 00:20:00,467 We're interviewing and everybody that we can find who 435 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:02,102 might have information on the disappearance 436 00:20:02,135 --> 00:20:03,903 and possible murder of Billie Lynn Groff. 437 00:20:03,937 --> 00:20:06,339 While we work on tracking 'em down, 438 00:20:06,373 --> 00:20:08,008 the other team is off to talk 439 00:20:08,041 --> 00:20:10,744 to Billie Lynn's really good friend Ann Cliness. 440 00:20:10,777 --> 00:20:12,612 I'm here working on the Billie Lynn Groff case. 441 00:20:12,645 --> 00:20:14,748 Oh my God. 442 00:20:14,781 --> 00:20:17,617 According to the offense report, after returning home 443 00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:20,453 from church, Billie Lynn called her friend Ann Cliness 444 00:20:20,487 --> 00:20:22,489 around 9:30 p.m. 445 00:20:22,522 --> 00:20:24,791 which would make her the very last person 446 00:20:24,824 --> 00:20:27,327 Billie Lynn ever talked to. 447 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:30,130 We were friends and we really liked each other, 448 00:20:30,163 --> 00:20:32,365 and she became my accompanist. 449 00:20:32,399 --> 00:20:36,269 She was a pianist. She was very vivacious. 450 00:20:36,302 --> 00:20:38,138 She was a good mom. 451 00:20:38,171 --> 00:20:40,306 She was just a little shining light. 452 00:20:40,340 --> 00:20:44,811 Did she confide in you about how Ed treated her? 453 00:20:44,844 --> 00:20:48,748 Well, I-- she did tell me things when he got angry 454 00:20:48,782 --> 00:20:50,350 about how he treated her. 455 00:20:50,383 --> 00:20:52,318 He was being very abusive 456 00:20:52,352 --> 00:20:54,754 and that's one reason she wanted to go. 457 00:20:54,788 --> 00:20:57,824 She wanted to get away from him. 458 00:20:57,857 --> 00:20:59,793 But she would never leave her kids, right? 459 00:20:59,826 --> 00:21:01,594 She would never do that. 460 00:21:01,628 --> 00:21:04,764 So in your statement, you have 461 00:21:04,798 --> 00:21:07,367 that you talked to Billie on July 4th. 462 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,169 Does that sound familiar? 463 00:21:09,202 --> 00:21:11,071 4th of July she called me and said 464 00:21:11,071 --> 00:21:13,073 that she was gonna meet me the next day. 465 00:21:13,073 --> 00:21:15,508 After our voice lessons, she was gonna give me 466 00:21:15,542 --> 00:21:19,179 what little money she had to-- to hide for-- to keep for her. 467 00:21:19,212 --> 00:21:21,981 I never got it because she never came. 468 00:21:22,082 --> 00:21:23,983 -Right. -Right. 469 00:21:24,084 --> 00:21:26,353 We know that shortly before Billie Lynn disappeared, 470 00:21:26,386 --> 00:21:29,222 her father gave her $1,000 to pay for school. 471 00:21:29,255 --> 00:21:31,925 We initially thought she could have used that money to flee, 472 00:21:31,958 --> 00:21:35,095 but now it appears she had another plan in place. 473 00:21:35,095 --> 00:21:37,931 Her divorce was in progress and she was stashing away money 474 00:21:37,964 --> 00:21:41,001 in order to get her and her babies to safety. 475 00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:43,236 Unfortunately, that day never came. 476 00:21:43,269 --> 00:21:45,872 That night she said to me, "Here they come. 477 00:21:45,905 --> 00:21:47,907 I'll see you tomorrow." 478 00:21:47,941 --> 00:21:50,110 Who do you think she thought was coming? 479 00:21:50,110 --> 00:21:52,345 Well, I think she knew he was bringing the children home 480 00:21:52,379 --> 00:21:55,115 because when she called me, I think I remember her saying, 481 00:21:55,115 --> 00:21:57,917 "You know, I don't have long." She didn't wanna upset him. 482 00:21:57,951 --> 00:22:00,420 I think she was afraid, but I never expected 483 00:22:00,453 --> 00:22:02,055 to never see her again. 484 00:22:02,055 --> 00:22:05,825 *** 485 00:22:05,859 --> 00:22:09,596 *** 486 00:22:09,629 --> 00:22:13,066 According to Ann Cliness, the very last thing 487 00:22:13,066 --> 00:22:15,935 Billie Lynn told her was, "Here they come." 488 00:22:15,969 --> 00:22:19,205 Assuming that the car pulling up was her family. 489 00:22:19,239 --> 00:22:21,608 That was shortly after 9:30 p.m. 490 00:22:21,641 --> 00:22:24,077 But we know Billie Lynn's family didn't return 491 00:22:24,077 --> 00:22:27,380 'till roughly an hour later when Ed's mother and sister 492 00:22:27,414 --> 00:22:31,384 brought the kids home, followed by Ed in his car, 493 00:22:31,418 --> 00:22:33,219 and Billie Lynn was nowhere to be found. 494 00:22:33,253 --> 00:22:36,089 Is it possible that Ed left the Ox Roast 495 00:22:36,122 --> 00:22:39,893 and made a trip on his own without anyone noticing? 496 00:22:39,926 --> 00:22:41,961 -So this is our house? -Yep. 497 00:22:41,995 --> 00:22:43,596 We know that she's on the phone 498 00:22:43,630 --> 00:22:45,265 with Ann Cliness and someone pulls in. 499 00:22:45,298 --> 00:22:46,566 Whoever's turning in, they're turning in 500 00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:48,435 and they're right there. 501 00:22:48,468 --> 00:22:50,270 So she would've definitely known it was him pulling in. 502 00:22:50,303 --> 00:22:51,738 -When she said they. -They. 503 00:22:51,771 --> 00:22:53,373 -They're home. -Yeah, definitely. 504 00:22:53,406 --> 00:22:55,442 If Ed did come home alone, I can't imagine 505 00:22:55,475 --> 00:22:57,744 what Billie Lynn was thinking when she realized 506 00:22:57,777 --> 00:22:59,579 that their kids were not with them. 507 00:22:59,612 --> 00:23:02,615 So then he comes in, maybe whatever happens, happens. 508 00:23:02,649 --> 00:23:06,419 That garage, there's a door, can go right to the kitchen. 509 00:23:06,453 --> 00:23:08,488 If you wanted to move somebody, just put a car 510 00:23:08,521 --> 00:23:10,590 in the garage and shut the door. 511 00:23:10,623 --> 00:23:12,625 Then you could bring her straight into the garage, 512 00:23:12,659 --> 00:23:16,062 put her in a trunk of the car, open the garage, and go. 513 00:23:16,062 --> 00:23:17,831 -That changes-- -That's a huge point. 514 00:23:17,864 --> 00:23:19,833 It is. Right. 515 00:23:19,866 --> 00:23:22,535 If you were gonna take the body out in the trunk of the car 516 00:23:22,569 --> 00:23:25,772 and go to wherever you think he-- she was taken, 517 00:23:25,805 --> 00:23:27,340 how long of time are we talking about? 518 00:23:27,374 --> 00:23:29,309 Back then, I-I'm sure he could have made 519 00:23:29,342 --> 00:23:31,678 that trip in seven, eight minutes. Easy. 520 00:23:31,711 --> 00:23:33,513 So let's just say ten. 521 00:23:33,546 --> 00:23:35,548 Ten plus ten is 20 plus whatever he needs to do 522 00:23:35,582 --> 00:23:36,783 to get rid of the body. 523 00:23:36,816 --> 00:23:38,184 How many hours to dig a hole? 524 00:23:38,218 --> 00:23:40,086 Four? I don't know. 525 00:23:40,086 --> 00:23:42,222 If he's digging a hole, he's gone a lot longer time. 526 00:23:42,255 --> 00:23:46,092 If Ed did kill Billie Lynn during this one hour window, 527 00:23:46,126 --> 00:23:48,762 how did he have enough time to drive to the property 528 00:23:48,795 --> 00:23:51,197 near his mom's house, dig the hole 529 00:23:51,231 --> 00:23:53,600 and then bury Billie Lynn there? 530 00:23:53,633 --> 00:23:57,103 Did he temporarily hide the body somewhere in their home? 531 00:23:57,103 --> 00:23:59,205 How could he have pulled this off 532 00:23:59,239 --> 00:24:01,841 without the kids finding their mom dead? 533 00:24:01,875 --> 00:24:06,046 *** 534 00:24:10,183 --> 00:24:13,319 e. 535 00:24:13,353 --> 00:24:15,655 Right in front of my family. In front of the whole place. 536 00:24:15,689 --> 00:24:17,090 Oh, wow. 537 00:24:17,123 --> 00:24:18,692 He reminds me of a control freak. 538 00:24:18,725 --> 00:24:21,261 -That flag went up right away. -Okay. 539 00:24:21,294 --> 00:24:23,697 Now that we have evidence suggesting that Billie Lynn 540 00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:26,766 did not voluntarily leave, we're gonna dig into 541 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,302 the world of our main suspect Ed Groff. 542 00:24:29,336 --> 00:24:32,605 We've heard that he was a jealous, possessive husband 543 00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:35,442 that abused her, but was he capable of murder? 544 00:24:35,475 --> 00:24:37,110 He was kind of a strange guy. 545 00:24:37,143 --> 00:24:38,712 How -- how would you say strange? 546 00:24:38,745 --> 00:24:40,714 Distant. 547 00:24:40,747 --> 00:24:42,982 We're still working through the people on our witness list, 548 00:24:43,083 --> 00:24:45,151 including Ed's ex-girlfriends, to see if there's any kind 549 00:24:45,185 --> 00:24:48,188 of pattern of violent behavior in his relationships. 550 00:24:57,964 --> 00:25:01,034 You felt concerned for your safety back then around Ed? 551 00:25:12,645 --> 00:25:13,880 Wow. 552 00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:25,825 How long were you guys together? 553 00:25:25,859 --> 00:25:28,261 A couple years. 554 00:25:28,294 --> 00:25:30,797 And then we broke up and then he tried running me off 555 00:25:30,830 --> 00:25:33,667 the road, followed me everywhere. 556 00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:37,103 He kept showing up at the house. He gets obsessed, I think. 557 00:25:37,137 --> 00:25:39,639 I don't know. He scared the crap outta me. I do know that. 558 00:25:39,673 --> 00:25:41,508 Then I was cutting the grass. 559 00:25:41,541 --> 00:25:43,977 I remember some kind of a hold, it was him. 560 00:25:44,077 --> 00:25:45,879 He grabbed me up and put me on the porch. 561 00:25:45,912 --> 00:25:47,714 You were on the lawnmower, and he grabbed you by-- 562 00:25:47,747 --> 00:25:49,115 From behind. 563 00:25:49,149 --> 00:25:50,750 Putting his arm around your neck, 564 00:25:50,784 --> 00:25:52,686 and then he led you to the-- to the house? 565 00:25:52,719 --> 00:25:54,821 Did he have his arm around your neck the whole time 566 00:25:54,854 --> 00:25:56,656 -you walked to the-- -Yes. I was afraid. 567 00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:59,325 Finally, he just stopped. 568 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,262 Deborah's story of Ed's attack is yet another example 569 00:26:02,295 --> 00:26:05,532 of Ed's anger toward women once the relationship ends, 570 00:26:05,565 --> 00:26:07,834 and it seems his pattern of controlling, 571 00:26:07,867 --> 00:26:10,470 stalking and abuse spanned decades. 572 00:26:10,503 --> 00:26:12,138 -You've had quite an experience. -Yeah. 573 00:26:12,172 --> 00:26:15,775 He gave me the creeps. I'm sorry. 574 00:26:15,809 --> 00:26:17,444 Could Ed have strangled Billie Lynn 575 00:26:17,477 --> 00:26:19,512 the same way he did Deborah? 576 00:26:19,546 --> 00:26:21,748 You hear a lot of the same things over and over now. 577 00:26:21,781 --> 00:26:23,049 Yeah. 578 00:26:23,049 --> 00:26:29,856 *** 579 00:26:29,889 --> 00:26:32,359 -You met Janice before, huh? -Yes. 580 00:26:32,392 --> 00:26:35,695 How is she feeling about telling all she knows? 581 00:26:35,729 --> 00:26:39,065 She's talking about her brother. That's a concern for her. 582 00:26:39,065 --> 00:26:41,601 I give her credit 'cause not everybody does that. 583 00:26:41,634 --> 00:26:43,570 We're down to the last two witnesses we were 584 00:26:43,603 --> 00:26:45,238 hoping to find while we were here. 585 00:26:45,271 --> 00:26:48,341 Ed's sister, Janice and her daughter Donna. 586 00:26:48,375 --> 00:26:50,443 You ready? 587 00:26:50,477 --> 00:26:53,313 We've heard that over the years, Janice has become more open 588 00:26:53,346 --> 00:26:56,082 to the idea that her brother Ed was involved 589 00:26:56,116 --> 00:26:59,085 in the disappearance of Billie Lynn. 590 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,054 If she knows anything, now is the time 591 00:27:01,087 --> 00:27:03,223 for Janice to tell us all that she can. 592 00:27:03,256 --> 00:27:04,924 -Janice, I'm Kelly. -Hi Kelly. 593 00:27:05,025 --> 00:27:06,559 -Nice to meet you. -Nice to meet you too. 594 00:27:06,593 --> 00:27:08,028 So excited to meet you. 595 00:27:08,061 --> 00:27:10,263 -I'm a nervous wreck. -I know you are. 596 00:27:10,296 --> 00:27:13,099 -It's okay. -I have conflicted feelings. 597 00:27:13,133 --> 00:27:16,336 I'm really conflicted. I-- I'm-- I'm-- yeah. 598 00:27:16,369 --> 00:27:17,771 -You would have to be. -Yeah. 599 00:27:17,804 --> 00:27:19,572 He's your brother. You love him. 600 00:27:19,606 --> 00:27:21,908 Mm-hmm. When this first happened, 601 00:27:21,941 --> 00:27:25,211 even the things that were so obvious, we denied. 602 00:27:25,245 --> 00:27:27,580 We-- we-- we were in denial. 603 00:27:27,614 --> 00:27:30,717 We-- we said, "No, he didn't do anything, 604 00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:32,952 and there has to be another explanation. 605 00:27:33,053 --> 00:27:36,089 There has to be another reason." 606 00:27:36,122 --> 00:27:40,160 But over the years, we all started to face 607 00:27:40,193 --> 00:27:44,230 some of us sooner than others that, yeah. 608 00:27:44,264 --> 00:27:47,734 Okay. So we're just gonna kinda let you tell the whole story 609 00:27:47,767 --> 00:27:50,470 and make sure that we cover everything with you today. 610 00:27:50,503 --> 00:27:51,971 Okay? 611 00:27:52,072 --> 00:27:54,074 They were having a big 4th of July doing 612 00:27:54,074 --> 00:27:56,109 down right in the center of town. 613 00:27:56,142 --> 00:27:57,744 Eddie said he'd bring the kids 614 00:27:57,777 --> 00:27:59,245 and we were all gonna meet there. 615 00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,816 So we got there. Eddie wasn't there yet. 616 00:28:02,849 --> 00:28:05,785 And when my mom came in, she said, 617 00:28:05,819 --> 00:28:08,455 "Did-- did anybody see Billie today?" 618 00:28:08,488 --> 00:28:10,557 She was worried about Billie. 619 00:28:10,590 --> 00:28:12,325 She goes, "Well, I saw Eddie coming out 620 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,094 of the woods with a shovel." 621 00:28:14,127 --> 00:28:16,596 And my friend said, "What does she think? 622 00:28:16,629 --> 00:28:18,231 He killed her or something?" 623 00:28:18,264 --> 00:28:19,766 And we just started laughing. 624 00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:21,735 My mother asked him what he was doing, 625 00:28:21,768 --> 00:28:24,237 and he said Billie wanted a plant or a tree or something 626 00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:26,840 and he was gonna dig it up for her or something. 627 00:28:26,873 --> 00:28:29,109 That's the excuse he gave. 628 00:28:29,142 --> 00:28:30,810 And why'd you call it an excuse? 629 00:28:30,844 --> 00:28:33,046 Because he didn't dig up a tree or any shrub, 630 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,048 and he wouldn't have done that anyway 631 00:28:35,048 --> 00:28:38,051 because Billie was divorcing him and he was angry with her. 632 00:28:38,051 --> 00:28:43,056 If Ed was seen with a shovel by his own mom earlier that day, 633 00:28:43,089 --> 00:28:46,326 does that mean that he dug the hole earlier that same day? 634 00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:49,162 Because if he did, that would explain how he was 635 00:28:49,195 --> 00:28:52,399 able to bury Billie Lynn in that short of a window. 636 00:28:52,432 --> 00:28:54,067 -What happens next? -Eddie probably got there 637 00:28:54,067 --> 00:28:57,070 maybe about ten or 15 minutes later. 638 00:28:57,070 --> 00:28:59,072 We're talking having a good time. 639 00:28:59,072 --> 00:29:01,141 The kids are running, Mark and Michelle are running around. 640 00:29:01,174 --> 00:29:03,343 And he disappears. 641 00:29:03,376 --> 00:29:08,281 Eddie was gone for quite a while and my husband was coming back. 642 00:29:08,314 --> 00:29:13,119 He had just got a beer and then Eddie came. And he said, "Ed." 643 00:29:13,153 --> 00:29:14,654 He said, "Why are you sweating like that?" 644 00:29:14,688 --> 00:29:16,289 It's-- Eddie was sweating. 645 00:29:16,322 --> 00:29:18,058 Your husband said that out loud? 646 00:29:18,091 --> 00:29:20,527 Yeah. And he said, "Oh, I couldn't find Mark and Michelle. 647 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,363 -I was looking for them." -According to Ed, 648 00:29:23,396 --> 00:29:27,434 he never left the Ox Roast until he went home for the night. 649 00:29:27,467 --> 00:29:30,603 We've already heard evidence suggesting otherwise. 650 00:29:30,637 --> 00:29:33,506 And now we're hearing that around the same time, 651 00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:38,778 he was unaccounted for and when he did return, he was sweaty. 652 00:29:38,812 --> 00:29:41,114 It seems like Ed's perfect little alibi 653 00:29:41,147 --> 00:29:43,216 might not be so perfect after all. 654 00:29:43,249 --> 00:29:45,618 Being very, very honest with you, 655 00:29:45,652 --> 00:29:48,888 if we can put this case together, it's because of you. 656 00:29:48,922 --> 00:29:52,058 In a way I'm hoping that it will resolve something 657 00:29:52,058 --> 00:29:53,927 for the family. 658 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,062 And in another way, it is my brother. 659 00:29:56,062 --> 00:29:58,064 -I know. -That's hard. 660 00:29:58,064 --> 00:30:01,601 But if he really did do something 661 00:30:01,634 --> 00:30:04,371 then Billie deserves justice. 662 00:30:04,404 --> 00:30:07,407 We all know it's not easy for Janice to tell 663 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,076 her story, but we're glad she did. 664 00:30:10,110 --> 00:30:13,580 And now we have a much better picture of Ed's movement 665 00:30:13,613 --> 00:30:17,217 and everything he did the day his wife disappeared. 666 00:30:17,250 --> 00:30:19,853 And even more importantly, Janice is willing to 667 00:30:19,886 --> 00:30:22,555 testify in the courtroom against her own brother. 668 00:30:22,589 --> 00:30:24,591 This is huge. 669 00:30:24,624 --> 00:30:26,192 -Hello. -Hi. 670 00:30:26,226 --> 00:30:28,728 Janice's daughter, Donna has been waiting 671 00:30:28,762 --> 00:30:30,930 in the backyard to also talk to us. 672 00:30:30,964 --> 00:30:33,933 She was only 13 years old at the time, but we wanna see 673 00:30:33,967 --> 00:30:36,670 if she remembers anything that could be helpful to the case. 674 00:30:36,703 --> 00:30:38,905 Is there anything you can think of that you know 675 00:30:38,938 --> 00:30:41,141 or saw her that we need to know about? 676 00:30:41,174 --> 00:30:43,009 Well, I wasn't in town when it happened. 677 00:30:43,043 --> 00:30:46,079 I had been gone a couple days. I got home July 5th. 678 00:30:46,112 --> 00:30:48,281 And that week was when he cleaned that house 679 00:30:48,314 --> 00:30:50,150 with the Clorox. 680 00:30:50,183 --> 00:30:52,585 And I remember because when I went over, 681 00:30:52,619 --> 00:30:54,154 I was like [sniffs], and I smelled it. 682 00:30:54,187 --> 00:30:56,022 -Where? -Down the basement steps. 683 00:30:56,056 --> 00:30:57,924 Right when you walked in, it was right there. 684 00:30:57,957 --> 00:30:59,926 It hit you. I'll never forget it. 685 00:30:59,959 --> 00:31:03,430 We just got the last piece that we needed to put together 686 00:31:03,463 --> 00:31:07,067 a possible scenario of how Ed killed Billie Lynn. 687 00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:10,170 It's possible that after slipping away from the Ox Roast, 688 00:31:10,203 --> 00:31:12,772 he choked Billie Lynn and then concealed her body 689 00:31:12,806 --> 00:31:15,608 in the basement, hoping that nobody would find her 690 00:31:15,642 --> 00:31:19,079 until he had time to bury the body in the pre-dug hole. 691 00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:21,081 That makes all this sound a whole lot 692 00:31:21,081 --> 00:31:23,149 more cold-blooded and premeditated. 693 00:31:23,183 --> 00:31:25,118 I always think that that's where everything happened. 694 00:31:25,151 --> 00:31:26,920 Because he cleaned those basements. 695 00:31:26,953 --> 00:31:28,922 -He didn't clean. -He didn't clean? 696 00:31:28,955 --> 00:31:30,690 -No. -Okay. 697 00:31:30,724 --> 00:31:32,792 I think it's time we go talk to Ed Groff. 698 00:31:32,826 --> 00:31:44,838 *** 699 00:31:44,871 --> 00:31:47,474 all the notes from all the interviews 700 00:31:47,507 --> 00:31:51,811 with Edward Groff, there's not a lot of detail, right? 701 00:31:51,845 --> 00:31:53,847 His initial written statement was really short. 702 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,682 -Two sentences. -Yep. 703 00:31:55,715 --> 00:31:57,951 And then the interviews, they weren't real long. 704 00:31:57,984 --> 00:31:59,652 Mm-mm. 705 00:31:59,686 --> 00:32:01,454 You would think that if your wife went missing, 706 00:32:01,488 --> 00:32:03,056 you know, all these years, he's never contacted us 707 00:32:03,089 --> 00:32:04,357 to find out an update. 708 00:32:04,391 --> 00:32:06,126 It makes no sense. 709 00:32:06,159 --> 00:32:08,061 Maybe he'll open the door because you're with me. 710 00:32:08,061 --> 00:32:09,929 -Yeah, right. -He likes pretty ladies. 711 00:32:09,963 --> 00:32:11,698 Yeah. He doesn't like bitches though. 712 00:32:11,731 --> 00:32:14,067 [laughs] I'm sure he doesn't. 713 00:32:14,067 --> 00:32:17,804 Now it's time for us to confront our suspect, Ed Groff. 714 00:32:17,837 --> 00:32:19,639 -You ready? -Yep. 715 00:32:19,673 --> 00:32:22,609 We wanna compare what Ed has to say with everything 716 00:32:22,642 --> 00:32:24,878 that we've been learning from all these witnesses. 717 00:32:24,911 --> 00:32:27,380 If he tells us something inconsistent today, 718 00:32:27,414 --> 00:32:29,282 that can only strengthen the case. 719 00:32:33,420 --> 00:32:35,355 -Hello? -Hello. Good morning. 720 00:32:35,388 --> 00:32:37,190 -Hi. -Hi. 721 00:32:37,223 --> 00:32:39,092 I'm Sergeant Mike Banic from Hubbard City. 722 00:32:39,092 --> 00:32:40,894 I was hoping that you could help me. 723 00:32:40,927 --> 00:32:43,730 I'm looking into the case you filed back in '77 724 00:32:43,763 --> 00:32:46,499 of the-- your missing wife. Can you help me? 725 00:32:46,533 --> 00:32:48,535 No, you've got the wrong person. 726 00:32:48,568 --> 00:32:51,104 -You're not Ed Groff? -Yeah, I'm Ed Groff. 727 00:32:51,104 --> 00:32:53,239 Okay. Don't you wanna help find your wife? 728 00:32:55,275 --> 00:32:57,143 -Not really? -Why not? 729 00:32:58,945 --> 00:33:00,747 It's been so long. 730 00:33:00,780 --> 00:33:02,916 I don't even know anything about it, 731 00:33:02,949 --> 00:33:05,385 but I don't feel like I'm mentally ready to talk to, 732 00:33:05,418 --> 00:33:07,821 and I think you are people here to trick me. 733 00:33:07,854 --> 00:33:09,489 I promise I'm not here to trick you. 734 00:33:09,522 --> 00:33:11,091 I'm here to just get information from you. 735 00:33:11,124 --> 00:33:13,093 Well, I don't trust cops. 736 00:33:13,126 --> 00:33:16,062 Whatever you remember, if it's the truth, that's all we need. 737 00:33:16,062 --> 00:33:18,164 And I told you pretty much everything. 738 00:33:18,198 --> 00:33:20,100 She said that she was leaving. 739 00:33:20,133 --> 00:33:22,902 She told people that she was leaving, and she left. 740 00:33:22,936 --> 00:33:24,938 Where'd she tell people she was going? 741 00:33:24,971 --> 00:33:27,407 -She didn't. -How was your marriage? 742 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,743 Oh, we-- we got along good. 743 00:33:29,776 --> 00:33:32,112 Never-- no fights or nothing, no violence? 744 00:33:32,145 --> 00:33:33,913 -Oh no. No. -Okay. 745 00:33:33,947 --> 00:33:35,782 I mean, we never fought. 746 00:33:35,815 --> 00:33:38,385 We would have a few words, but she always blamed me for 747 00:33:38,418 --> 00:33:40,620 'cause she was pregnant in high school, 748 00:33:40,653 --> 00:33:44,090 and she always blamed me for that pregnancy. 749 00:33:44,090 --> 00:33:46,159 You know what I mean? 750 00:33:46,192 --> 00:33:48,928 She's the one that said that I ruined her life, you know? 751 00:33:48,962 --> 00:33:51,331 And sometimes, she kinda blamed the kids 752 00:33:51,364 --> 00:33:53,400 and take it out on them. 753 00:33:53,433 --> 00:33:55,301 Is that why, after when she went missing, 754 00:33:55,335 --> 00:33:57,804 you made Mark and Michelle take down all of her pictures, 755 00:33:57,837 --> 00:34:00,306 and they weren't allowed to ever talk about her again? 756 00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:02,042 That don't make sense to me. 757 00:34:02,042 --> 00:34:03,410 I don't remember anything like that. 758 00:34:03,443 --> 00:34:04,744 They were allowed to do whatever, 759 00:34:04,778 --> 00:34:06,446 pretty much anything, they want. 760 00:34:06,479 --> 00:34:08,248 Every belonging of hers was just gone. 761 00:34:08,281 --> 00:34:09,816 It was out of the house. 762 00:34:09,849 --> 00:34:11,718 You couldn't have nothing in your room, 763 00:34:11,751 --> 00:34:13,920 no pictures of her in your room or anything like that. 764 00:34:13,953 --> 00:34:16,489 There are some old friends of Billie's 765 00:34:16,523 --> 00:34:18,458 that talk about the fact 766 00:34:18,491 --> 00:34:20,927 that she had bruises on her sometimes, 767 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,596 -some abuse going on. -No. Never. No. 768 00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:25,231 -Not true? -No. 769 00:34:32,839 --> 00:34:34,974 Do you remember that she had filed for a divorce? 770 00:34:35,075 --> 00:34:38,278 -Yeah. That's okay. -What do you mean that's okay? 771 00:34:38,311 --> 00:34:40,447 Some people get divorces all the time. 772 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,083 So it was a friendly divorce. You weren't upset? 773 00:34:43,083 --> 00:34:44,951 -I think so. -Okay. 774 00:34:44,984 --> 00:34:47,120 So when's the last time you saw her? 775 00:34:47,153 --> 00:34:49,789 When me and the kids left to go to the party. 776 00:34:49,823 --> 00:34:52,092 That's-- that's the last time I saw her. 777 00:34:52,092 --> 00:34:54,494 Did you stay there the whole time that day? 778 00:34:54,527 --> 00:34:56,162 Oh yeah. I never left. 779 00:34:56,196 --> 00:34:58,365 I was with these people the whole time. 780 00:34:58,398 --> 00:35:00,500 He disappears. Eddie was gone for quite a while. 781 00:35:00,533 --> 00:35:02,535 It was dark when we come home that night. 782 00:35:02,569 --> 00:35:04,304 You say you drove the kids home? 783 00:35:04,337 --> 00:35:06,206 -We left, yeah. -Okay. 784 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,241 What was the house like when you got home that night? 785 00:35:08,274 --> 00:35:10,076 Well, she wasn't there. 786 00:35:10,110 --> 00:35:12,112 We thought she'd come back, then it just kept going 787 00:35:12,145 --> 00:35:14,214 on and on and on. 788 00:35:14,247 --> 00:35:16,549 Ann Cliness says that night, she was talking 789 00:35:16,583 --> 00:35:18,651 to Billie on the phone. 790 00:35:18,685 --> 00:35:21,221 When Billie says, "They're coming home now." 791 00:35:21,254 --> 00:35:23,623 And that would've been around 9:30. 792 00:35:23,656 --> 00:35:25,225 Doesn't sound right. 793 00:35:25,258 --> 00:35:27,694 The file says you get home around 10:40. 794 00:35:27,727 --> 00:35:30,330 So there's an hour window, hour gap in there. 795 00:35:30,363 --> 00:35:33,667 Well, like I say, I was with the kids the whole time. 796 00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:36,836 Edward, how come your mom says that she saw you coming out 797 00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:39,639 of the woods over by her house that day 798 00:35:39,673 --> 00:35:41,908 with the shovel that very day. 799 00:35:41,941 --> 00:35:43,376 I don't believe you. 800 00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:45,512 That doesn't even make sense to me. 801 00:35:45,545 --> 00:35:47,514 But I-I think you're trying to trick me here too. 802 00:35:47,547 --> 00:35:49,449 I don't believe that. 803 00:35:49,482 --> 00:35:51,418 People noticed the smell of Clorox coming from 804 00:35:51,451 --> 00:35:55,121 the basement in the days after Billie went missing. 805 00:35:55,155 --> 00:35:57,290 I have no idea where you're getting all this stuff. 806 00:35:57,323 --> 00:36:00,727 That week was when he cleaned that house with the Clorox. 807 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,096 When I went over, I was like, [sniff], and I smelled it. 808 00:36:03,129 --> 00:36:04,731 I'll never forget it. 809 00:36:04,764 --> 00:36:06,366 I don't know what you're talking about. 810 00:36:06,399 --> 00:36:08,802 -Yes, you do. -I didn't bury her anywhere. 811 00:36:08,835 --> 00:36:10,603 Okay? 812 00:36:10,637 --> 00:36:12,305 What did you do with her then? 813 00:36:12,339 --> 00:36:14,074 I didn't-- I haven't seen her. 814 00:36:14,107 --> 00:36:16,276 The last time I saw her is when me and the kids 815 00:36:16,309 --> 00:36:17,610 left for the Ox Roast. 816 00:36:17,644 --> 00:36:19,679 Now, you wanna arrest me? 817 00:36:19,713 --> 00:36:21,448 I'll come right out, and you can handcuff me 818 00:36:21,481 --> 00:36:23,416 and take me to jail and-- okay? 819 00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:25,952 -Ain't nobody believing you. -No one. 820 00:36:26,052 --> 00:36:29,055 -Goodbye. -Bye. 821 00:36:29,055 --> 00:36:32,625 If Ed killed Billie Lynn, he's never gonna confess. 822 00:36:32,659 --> 00:36:35,895 But we've got enough to field our circumstantial 823 00:36:35,929 --> 00:36:37,731 evidence case against him. 824 00:36:37,764 --> 00:36:39,466 This is fantastic. 825 00:36:39,499 --> 00:36:41,601 -Well, he saw you, not me. -Yeah. 826 00:36:41,634 --> 00:36:43,603 I think. That's why he opened the window. 827 00:36:43,636 --> 00:36:46,506 -He did. He saw a girl, not you. -That's amazing. 828 00:36:46,539 --> 00:36:51,978 *** 829 00:36:58,651 --> 00:37:00,787 What's the final analysis with the dig Mike? 830 00:37:00,820 --> 00:37:03,189 They're done digging now, and they didn't find anything. 831 00:37:03,223 --> 00:37:05,091 And they dug everywhere you wanted them to. 832 00:37:05,125 --> 00:37:07,027 Yes, but I'm okay. 833 00:37:07,060 --> 00:37:10,597 After everything that we've done, I--I'm very optimistic. 834 00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:12,432 While we did not have any luck with the dig, 835 00:37:12,465 --> 00:37:14,034 we did with our witnesses, 836 00:37:14,067 --> 00:37:15,635 and we are feeling good about our case. 837 00:37:15,669 --> 00:37:17,170 -Hi Chief, how are you? -How are you? 838 00:37:17,203 --> 00:37:19,139 -I'm good. -Good to see you. 839 00:37:19,172 --> 00:37:21,474 Chief Thompson is gonna join us to review what we learned. 840 00:37:21,508 --> 00:37:25,045 All right. So we put on the board the possibility. 841 00:37:25,045 --> 00:37:28,748 -Did Billie Lynn run away? -The children piece is huge. 842 00:37:28,782 --> 00:37:31,751 Everybody agrees she would never leave her kids. 843 00:37:31,785 --> 00:37:33,520 She would never leave her kids. 844 00:37:33,553 --> 00:37:35,321 She would never do that. 845 00:37:35,355 --> 00:37:37,657 She was committed to leaving him, but not that way. 846 00:37:37,691 --> 00:37:39,359 I think it should be removed from board. 847 00:37:39,392 --> 00:37:40,960 Remove it. Absolutely remove it. 848 00:37:41,061 --> 00:37:42,662 All right. 849 00:37:42,696 --> 00:37:44,831 Okay. So now Edward Groff. 850 00:37:44,864 --> 00:37:47,701 Start with the big picture and all the ways 851 00:37:47,734 --> 00:37:50,136 you can prove that he was abusive 852 00:37:50,170 --> 00:37:52,405 starting in high school through how many witnesses? 853 00:37:52,439 --> 00:37:54,307 I mean, he actually locked her in a locker. 854 00:37:54,341 --> 00:37:55,909 -Inside the locker? -Yeah. 855 00:38:02,015 --> 00:38:03,650 He was being very abusive. 856 00:38:08,588 --> 00:38:10,156 What did Debra Creed tell y'all? 857 00:38:10,190 --> 00:38:11,491 Choke hold. 858 00:38:11,524 --> 00:38:13,059 I remember some kind of a hold. 859 00:38:13,093 --> 00:38:15,028 He grabbed me up and put me on the porch. 860 00:38:15,061 --> 00:38:16,830 You have a living, breathing witness 861 00:38:16,863 --> 00:38:18,865 who can tell you manner and means in what he does. 862 00:38:18,898 --> 00:38:20,333 -Sure. -That's big. 863 00:38:20,367 --> 00:38:22,068 It is big. That's new. That's big. 864 00:38:22,102 --> 00:38:24,637 And what does Janice tell us about Ox Roast day? 865 00:38:24,671 --> 00:38:27,040 That Ed left and came back, 866 00:38:27,073 --> 00:38:28,808 and he was sweating when he returned. 867 00:38:28,842 --> 00:38:31,044 My husband said, "Ed." 868 00:38:31,044 --> 00:38:33,213 He said, "Why are you sweating like that?" 869 00:38:33,246 --> 00:38:35,515 Ed's mom sees her son come out of the woods 870 00:38:35,548 --> 00:38:38,184 next to her house with a shovel, saying he's gonna-- 871 00:38:38,218 --> 00:38:39,853 looking for a tree to replant 872 00:38:39,886 --> 00:38:41,221 for a woman that's divorcing him? 873 00:38:41,254 --> 00:38:43,223 And then the only unusual thing 874 00:38:43,256 --> 00:38:45,592 in that house in the days that followed was what? 875 00:38:45,625 --> 00:38:48,261 Odor of bleach in the-- in the basement steps area. 876 00:38:48,294 --> 00:38:50,563 When I went over, I was like, [sniffs], and I smelled it. 877 00:38:50,597 --> 00:38:52,532 -Where? -Down the basement steps. 878 00:38:52,565 --> 00:38:54,401 It's right there. It hits you. 879 00:38:54,434 --> 00:38:57,103 When you have all these witnesses, 880 00:38:57,137 --> 00:39:00,440 and you have his own children and his own sister 881 00:39:00,473 --> 00:39:05,545 willing to say all that they can say from 45 years ago? 882 00:39:05,578 --> 00:39:07,380 -Yeah. -Oh my God, guys. 883 00:39:07,414 --> 00:39:10,016 It don't get better than that as far as a witness world. 884 00:39:10,016 --> 00:39:13,119 The Hubbard Police Department is prepared to present 885 00:39:13,153 --> 00:39:16,056 the circumstantial evidence case that we have built 886 00:39:16,089 --> 00:39:18,658 against Ed Groff to their prosecutor. 887 00:39:18,692 --> 00:39:20,493 I feel a lot better about this case today 888 00:39:20,527 --> 00:39:23,029 than a couple weeks ago. I mean, it's a great case. 889 00:39:23,063 --> 00:39:24,764 It's impressive what you guys have done. 890 00:39:24,798 --> 00:39:27,934 Every prosecutor has the same legal requirements, 891 00:39:28,034 --> 00:39:31,638 but maybe different expectations before they'll accept a case, 892 00:39:31,671 --> 00:39:34,708 which makes our job very challenging. 893 00:39:34,741 --> 00:39:38,478 But I firmly believe that no body is no excuse 894 00:39:38,511 --> 00:39:40,747 to not take a case and move forward. 895 00:39:40,780 --> 00:39:43,650 Hopefully, this prosecutor agrees. 896 00:39:43,683 --> 00:39:45,752 Go. Y'all go to your meeting and have good luck, 897 00:39:45,785 --> 00:39:48,621 and let us know as soon as you get out how it goes. 898 00:39:48,655 --> 00:39:55,428 *** 899 00:39:55,462 --> 00:40:01,034 *** 900 00:40:01,067 --> 00:40:02,869 How long the meeting last with your DA? 901 00:40:02,902 --> 00:40:05,271 One hour and 15 minutes. 902 00:40:05,305 --> 00:40:06,806 This is not gonna be a fun conversation 903 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,142 -for Mark and Michelle. -No. 904 00:40:09,175 --> 00:40:12,012 Are you thinking about how you're gonna tell them? 905 00:40:12,045 --> 00:40:13,613 Just tell 'em. 906 00:40:13,646 --> 00:40:15,215 -Straight up. -Yep. 907 00:40:15,248 --> 00:40:19,386 *** 908 00:40:19,419 --> 00:40:22,222 *** 909 00:40:22,255 --> 00:40:26,192 *** 910 00:40:26,226 --> 00:40:27,861 -Hello. -Hi, Kelly. 911 00:40:27,894 --> 00:40:29,329 -Hi. -Hi. 912 00:40:29,362 --> 00:40:31,297 -Hi. -Good to see you again. 913 00:40:31,331 --> 00:40:34,968 -Good to see you. -Good to see you. 914 00:40:35,001 --> 00:40:39,806 It was a long, productive week, and we spoke to a lot of people. 915 00:40:39,839 --> 00:40:42,542 And whenever your mom's name was mentioned, it was, 916 00:40:42,575 --> 00:40:44,844 "Oh, she was such a sweet lady, you know?" 917 00:40:44,878 --> 00:40:48,648 And every person we spoke to said absolutely 918 00:40:48,682 --> 00:40:51,551 your mother would've never have left without you. 919 00:40:51,584 --> 00:40:53,119 -Never. No doubt. -No doubt. 920 00:40:53,153 --> 00:40:55,221 That's what I said from the beginning. 921 00:40:55,255 --> 00:40:57,524 And we met with prosecutor today going over 922 00:40:57,557 --> 00:40:59,559 what we have learned over this course of the week. 923 00:40:59,592 --> 00:41:02,595 He feels at this time there's just not enough to move forward. 924 00:41:02,629 --> 00:41:04,698 We don't have enough probable cause to prove 925 00:41:04,731 --> 00:41:08,268 beyond a reasonable doubt that-- that your dad's guilty. 926 00:41:08,301 --> 00:41:10,704 So the digging area found no results? 927 00:41:10,737 --> 00:41:12,172 Correct. 928 00:41:12,205 --> 00:41:14,507 He said unless we have like a body, 929 00:41:14,541 --> 00:41:17,077 -a confession or someone-- -And an admission. 930 00:41:17,077 --> 00:41:21,748 *** 931 00:41:21,781 --> 00:41:24,084 We're so frustrated. 932 00:41:24,084 --> 00:41:25,518 Y'all, we really-- 933 00:41:25,552 --> 00:41:27,487 -we really had a good week. -I know. 934 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,589 Did you think there's a chance that he could still-- 935 00:41:29,622 --> 00:41:31,891 -that the-- -This is what I'll say. 936 00:41:31,925 --> 00:41:34,194 I'll say you have the right to have a meeting too. 937 00:41:34,227 --> 00:41:36,663 He represents you. You're a victim. 938 00:41:36,696 --> 00:41:38,998 That's his job. 939 00:41:39,099 --> 00:41:41,935 -I appreciate all you've done. -Don't-- yeah, you're welcome. 940 00:41:41,968 --> 00:41:44,170 I think Mark and I have felt all these years that, 941 00:41:44,204 --> 00:41:45,772 you know, you're kind of alone. 942 00:41:45,805 --> 00:41:49,109 You know, you feel like, I don't know. 943 00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:51,344 In listening to the things that they've said, 944 00:41:51,378 --> 00:41:53,246 it's just gonna be a long road. 945 00:41:53,279 --> 00:41:57,617 It just frustrates me. Just really frustrates me. 946 00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:59,552 You just gotta find a way to deal with it 947 00:41:59,586 --> 00:42:03,757 and cope and move on. 948 00:42:03,790 --> 00:42:07,160 But you never really move on from it. 949 00:42:07,193 --> 00:42:10,663 * Somewhere down the line * 950 00:42:10,697 --> 00:42:13,733 * We lost ourselves * 951 00:42:13,767 --> 00:42:15,802 We went to your dad last Saturday. 952 00:42:15,835 --> 00:42:17,671 He spoke to us from his bedroom window. 953 00:42:17,704 --> 00:42:19,472 Did you go in the house? Were you outside? 954 00:42:19,506 --> 00:42:21,141 He wouldn't answer the front door. 955 00:42:21,174 --> 00:42:22,742 We made him mad. He quit talking. 956 00:42:22,776 --> 00:42:24,144 Did he close the window? 957 00:42:24,177 --> 00:42:26,179 Yes. Yes. 958 00:42:26,212 --> 00:42:28,448 Him closing on the window on you just reminds me of 959 00:42:28,481 --> 00:42:30,583 the nights, like, when I was laying in bed crying 960 00:42:30,617 --> 00:42:32,419 'cause I missed my mom, and he closed the door. 961 00:42:32,452 --> 00:42:35,722 Like, that just was the sentiment I got 962 00:42:35,755 --> 00:42:38,258 that just came over me. 963 00:42:38,291 --> 00:42:40,093 You know, it's like, that's how I felt. 964 00:42:40,126 --> 00:42:42,595 I don't know what to say, you know? 965 00:42:42,629 --> 00:42:48,268 There's no-- there's no words, there's no equivalent for pain. 966 00:42:48,301 --> 00:42:52,105 You know, you carry on. Which is what I've tried to do. 967 00:42:52,105 --> 00:42:55,575 But I want justice. 968 00:42:55,608 --> 00:42:57,477 And I'm not gonna quit either. You know? 969 00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:59,746 That's the promise I made both of you to try to keep 970 00:42:59,779 --> 00:43:03,049 pushing this forward to-- to bring what the prosecutor wants. 971 00:43:03,049 --> 00:43:04,818 We're gonna keep trying. 972 00:43:04,851 --> 00:43:07,220 Thank you for fighting for us and giving it a shot. 973 00:43:07,253 --> 00:43:09,689 -I'm sorry. -Don't be sorry. 974 00:43:09,723 --> 00:43:11,157 I'm not gonna stop fighting. 975 00:43:11,191 --> 00:43:13,126 -Well, he's not gonna give up. -No. 976 00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:15,061 -It was nice to meet you. -Thanks, Kelly. 977 00:43:15,095 --> 00:43:17,063 Thanks for everything 978 00:43:17,063 --> 00:43:19,966 We desperately wanted to bring Mark and Michelle good news. 979 00:43:20,066 --> 00:43:24,070 And right now, we are just as mad and frustrated as they are. 980 00:43:24,104 --> 00:43:27,841 I know that they've overcome so much already in their lives 981 00:43:27,874 --> 00:43:31,344 and hopefully, they can continue to fight and persevere. 982 00:43:31,378 --> 00:43:35,815 Billie Lynn would be so proud of her babies. 983 00:43:35,849 --> 00:43:41,454 * Next thing we're broken, woken up some place else *