1
00:00:12,946 --> 00:00:16,316
* Look in my eyes,
they lie *
2
00:00:16,349 --> 00:00:18,818
* Went to hell
a couple of times *
3
00:00:18,852 --> 00:00:22,322
* Can't say I don't try,
I tried *
4
00:00:22,355 --> 00:00:24,991
* Now there's nowhere
left to hide *
5
00:00:26,226 --> 00:00:28,762
Well, Tonya, I'd like to present
you with a little challenge.
6
00:00:28,795 --> 00:00:31,364
How about-- how about
a 45 year old case?
7
00:00:31,398 --> 00:00:33,933
-Thanks so much.
-I know.
8
00:00:33,967 --> 00:00:37,103
-You're welcome.
-July 4th, 1977.
9
00:00:37,137 --> 00:00:38,838
I'm like,
am I reading that right?
10
00:00:38,872 --> 00:00:40,740
Uh-huh.
11
00:00:40,774 --> 00:00:43,343
We're in Hubbard, Ohio
to tackle not our oldest case,
12
00:00:43,376 --> 00:00:45,278
but our coldest case ever.
13
00:00:45,311 --> 00:00:48,148
The 45 year old missing
person case
14
00:00:48,181 --> 00:00:52,285
of dance teacher and devoted
mother, Billie Lynn Groff.
15
00:00:52,318 --> 00:00:54,721
Billie Lynn was 28.
16
00:00:54,754 --> 00:00:57,524
She had a ten year old son
and a seven year old daughter.
17
00:00:57,557 --> 00:01:01,194
She definitely had some
independent streak going on.
18
00:01:01,227 --> 00:01:04,731
You can tell that just by,
you know, her wanting to go back
19
00:01:04,764 --> 00:01:08,301
to school, the piano playing,
and she had her dance lessons.
20
00:01:08,335 --> 00:01:11,538
Billie Lynn
was an artist at heart.
21
00:01:11,571 --> 00:01:14,641
She was a dancer,
a pianist, and she was
22
00:01:14,674 --> 00:01:17,844
also studying voice
at the local university.
23
00:01:17,877 --> 00:01:20,313
But the true love of
her life were her two children.
24
00:01:20,347 --> 00:01:23,983
Can you imagine coming home,
it's the 4th of July and you are
25
00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:27,087
excited to get your sparklers
and you're looking for your mom.
26
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,589
Then you
never see her ever again.
27
00:01:29,622 --> 00:01:34,094
In July of 1977, Billie Lynn
was in the process of divorcing
28
00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:37,163
her high school sweetheart,
Ed, and excited about
29
00:01:37,197 --> 00:01:40,133
her future when she
mysteriously disappeared.
30
00:01:40,166 --> 00:01:42,135
From what I can tell,
reading the file,
31
00:01:42,168 --> 00:01:44,404
it doesn't seem like
Ed was really supportive of her.
32
00:01:44,437 --> 00:01:47,340
She wasn't even allowed to
practice her piano in the house.
33
00:01:47,374 --> 00:01:51,144
And it just sounds like
total control and manipulation.
34
00:01:51,177 --> 00:01:53,513
Rewind the clock and
think about that back then,
35
00:01:53,546 --> 00:01:55,682
getting
a divorce was pretty rare.
36
00:01:55,715 --> 00:01:57,617
Divorce was kind of a no-no.
37
00:01:57,650 --> 00:02:00,053
At a time when women thought
that they had limited options,
38
00:02:00,086 --> 00:02:03,056
Billie Lynn was going
against the status quo saying,
39
00:02:03,056 --> 00:02:05,892
"I don't care what society says,
I can do better."
40
00:02:05,925 --> 00:02:09,095
With her remains never being
found, we need to figure out
41
00:02:09,129 --> 00:02:12,098
did Billie Lynn leave on
her own or was she murdered?
42
00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:15,068
The police department
started coordinating the dig
43
00:02:15,068 --> 00:02:17,203
a couple of days ago.
44
00:02:17,237 --> 00:02:20,507
We're hoping maybe Billie Lynn's
remains will turn up.
45
00:02:20,540 --> 00:02:23,243
Law enforcement has always
suspected that Ed may have
46
00:02:23,276 --> 00:02:26,746
buried Billie Lynn in
the woods by his mom's house,
47
00:02:26,780 --> 00:02:28,882
but up until now,
the Hubbard Police Department
48
00:02:28,915 --> 00:02:30,884
never had the resources
to search that area.
49
00:02:30,917 --> 00:02:33,586
Human remain
detection dogs got a hit,
50
00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:35,822
and now the digging is underway.
51
00:02:35,855 --> 00:02:38,224
And after 45 years,
this could very well
52
00:02:38,258 --> 00:02:40,193
be our last chance
to solve this case.
53
00:02:40,226 --> 00:02:43,096
You know,
time isn't on our side.
54
00:02:43,096 --> 00:02:45,365
As far as having my
hopes up that they find
55
00:02:45,398 --> 00:02:47,133
something,
I don't have my hopes up.
56
00:02:47,167 --> 00:02:49,402
But if ever I thought we had
a case where we might,
57
00:02:49,436 --> 00:02:50,603
this would be it.
58
00:02:59,179 --> 00:03:00,814
-Morning.
-Good morning.
59
00:03:00,847 --> 00:03:02,282
-Good morning.
-Hello, I'm Kelly.
60
00:03:02,315 --> 00:03:03,416
-I'm Michael.
-Nice to meet you.
61
00:03:03,450 --> 00:03:05,185
Hi, Tonya Rider.
62
00:03:05,218 --> 00:03:07,053
-Howard. Nice to meet y'all.
-Hi. Nice to meet you.
63
00:03:07,053 --> 00:03:09,122
So we're all excited to be here.
Tonya's from Ohio.
64
00:03:09,155 --> 00:03:11,057
-Welcome back.
-Yeah, thanks.
65
00:03:11,057 --> 00:03:13,093
I don't think many cops
across the country have cases
66
00:03:13,126 --> 00:03:15,595
as old as this one, guys.
45 years old.
67
00:03:15,628 --> 00:03:17,464
There's not a lot of witnesses,
so we gotta drag
68
00:03:17,497 --> 00:03:19,232
every little bit
out of 'em that we can.
69
00:03:19,265 --> 00:03:21,634
Right.
70
00:03:21,668 --> 00:03:24,137
In 2016, I started reading
the Billie Lynn Groff case
71
00:03:24,170 --> 00:03:27,173
and you just can't help to
get involved at that point.
72
00:03:27,207 --> 00:03:28,975
Nice area. Thank you.
73
00:03:29,075 --> 00:03:31,444
And you want to find
Billie Lynn.
74
00:03:31,478 --> 00:03:34,547
Her two kids deserve
to know where she's at.
75
00:03:34,581 --> 00:03:37,117
It's frustrating to me
that it's gone on so long.
76
00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:39,119
We need to get this case done.
77
00:03:39,152 --> 00:03:41,454
Let's put some pictures
up of Billie Lynn.
78
00:03:41,488 --> 00:03:44,324
Golly, doesn't
that look like 1977?
79
00:03:44,357 --> 00:03:45,592
-Yep.
-Yeah.
80
00:03:45,625 --> 00:03:47,193
-She Was 28?
-Yes.
81
00:03:47,227 --> 00:03:50,864
Billie Lynn was a mother
of two and housewife.
82
00:03:50,897 --> 00:03:52,866
She did piano and dance.
83
00:03:52,899 --> 00:03:56,603
She was attending YSU and had
friends and everybody liked her.
84
00:03:56,636 --> 00:03:58,738
She was just a gentle soul.
85
00:03:58,772 --> 00:04:00,540
So this is Billie Lynn
with her oldest Mark.
86
00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:03,043
And her and Ed, they
got married real young, right?
87
00:04:03,076 --> 00:04:05,078
Yeah. They were
high school sweethearts.
88
00:04:05,111 --> 00:04:08,548
Billie Lynn and Ed had
a very tumultuous marriage
89
00:04:08,581 --> 00:04:11,685
and after ten years,
she filed for divorce.
90
00:04:11,718 --> 00:04:15,388
Her divorce lawyer advised
her to remain in the house
91
00:04:15,422 --> 00:04:18,491
for fear that if she didn't,
she could lose the house
92
00:04:18,525 --> 00:04:22,062
and custody of her son Mark
and her daughter Michelle.
93
00:04:22,062 --> 00:04:25,398
Sadly, it was her children
who lost their mom.
94
00:04:25,432 --> 00:04:27,367
July the 4th.
95
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,203
Imagine what that means
to Mark and Michelle.
96
00:04:30,236 --> 00:04:31,571
-July 4th.
-I know.
97
00:04:31,604 --> 00:04:32,772
-Every year.
-Yeah.
98
00:04:32,806 --> 00:04:35,075
It's ruined forever.
99
00:04:35,108 --> 00:04:39,546
Okay. So what's the
beginning of the story?
100
00:04:39,579 --> 00:04:43,249
On July 4th, 1977,
which was a Monday,
101
00:04:43,283 --> 00:04:46,419
Billie Lynn was at the
Presbyterian church,
102
00:04:46,453 --> 00:04:48,855
was just down on the
street from where they lived.
103
00:04:48,888 --> 00:04:51,858
Ed and Mark and Michelle
had went to the Ox Roast.
104
00:04:51,891 --> 00:04:55,095
Was that like a 4th of July
celebration for the whole town?
105
00:04:55,128 --> 00:04:59,566
Yep. They would block off
a square. They would have food.
106
00:04:59,599 --> 00:05:02,302
Do we know why Billie
didn't go to the Ox Roast?
107
00:05:02,335 --> 00:05:05,071
She went to the church
to practice her piano.
108
00:05:05,105 --> 00:05:07,040
She never
was gonna go to it, so.
109
00:05:07,073 --> 00:05:09,409
After the Ox Roast,
Ed's children rode home
110
00:05:09,442 --> 00:05:11,578
with their
grandmother and Aunt Janice.
111
00:05:11,611 --> 00:05:14,247
The plan was to continue
the Independence Day
112
00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:16,683
celebration
at home with Billie Lynn.
113
00:05:16,716 --> 00:05:18,051
They're looking
for the sparklers,
114
00:05:18,084 --> 00:05:19,786
-Michelle comes outside.
-Yeah.
115
00:05:19,819 --> 00:05:21,588
So Michelle says she
can't find her mommy,
116
00:05:21,621 --> 00:05:22,889
and she goes,
"Maybe she's in bed."
117
00:05:22,922 --> 00:05:24,791
She goes, "No, I looked."
118
00:05:24,824 --> 00:05:27,761
Edward walks up, and Janice
asked him where Billie Lynn was.
119
00:05:27,794 --> 00:05:29,929
And he goes like,
"Well, I don't, I don't know."
120
00:05:29,963 --> 00:05:32,432
So then the next day
she doesn't come to class.
121
00:05:32,465 --> 00:05:34,668
They start getting worried,
and they call Ed,
122
00:05:34,701 --> 00:05:38,138
and they pressured him
to-- to report her missing.
123
00:05:38,171 --> 00:05:41,174
-Two days later. Okay.
-Two days later.
124
00:05:41,207 --> 00:05:44,144
According to the file, when
Ed reported Billie Lynn missing,
125
00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:47,781
he did not seem overly
concerned about her whereabouts,
126
00:05:47,814 --> 00:05:51,751
but he did hand the police
this four page manifesto that
127
00:05:51,785 --> 00:05:55,422
outlined all of her shortcomings
as a wife and a mother.
128
00:05:55,455 --> 00:05:59,092
Ed's odd behavior raised
some red flags, and so he became
129
00:05:59,125 --> 00:06:01,861
the prime suspect in
her missing person case.
130
00:06:01,895 --> 00:06:04,030
Edward Groff.
131
00:06:04,064 --> 00:06:07,600
What do we know
about Edward's personality?
132
00:06:07,634 --> 00:06:09,302
Highly controlling.
133
00:06:09,336 --> 00:06:11,204
You know, he didn't like
her attending college.
134
00:06:11,237 --> 00:06:13,173
He called it brainwashing.
135
00:06:13,206 --> 00:06:16,876
He didn't like her
associating with other people.
136
00:06:16,910 --> 00:06:19,279
Ed disapproved of Billie Lynn's
relationships and even
137
00:06:19,312 --> 00:06:22,048
accused her of having
an affair with a professor.
138
00:06:22,048 --> 00:06:23,850
There's
no evidence that she was,
139
00:06:23,883 --> 00:06:27,587
but is it possible Ed thought he
was losing his control
140
00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:29,255
and Billie Lynn filing
for divorce
141
00:06:29,289 --> 00:06:30,690
pushed him over the edge?
142
00:06:30,724 --> 00:06:32,525
He's got a short temper.
143
00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:34,828
When is the first we know
about bruises on Billie Lynn?
144
00:06:34,861 --> 00:06:37,197
From the college friends.
145
00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:39,532
The neighbor back at
that time reported it as well.
146
00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:41,234
Bruises on her arms.
147
00:06:41,267 --> 00:06:42,702
Anybody ever see any choke marks
148
00:06:42,736 --> 00:06:44,537
or hear any strangulation
stories?
149
00:06:44,571 --> 00:06:47,073
Not that we know of right now.
150
00:06:47,073 --> 00:06:49,709
On July the 4th, she goes to the
church to practice her piano.
151
00:06:49,743 --> 00:06:53,079
Billie Lynn told a friend
that before the Ox Roast,
152
00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:55,782
Ed snuck up
on her at the church.
153
00:06:55,815 --> 00:06:57,450
We don't
know what they argued about.
154
00:06:57,484 --> 00:06:59,686
She said
that he jostled her around.
155
00:06:59,719 --> 00:07:02,389
Hours before she goes missing.
156
00:07:02,422 --> 00:07:05,859
Ed has the only known
motive to want Billie Lynn dead.
157
00:07:05,892 --> 00:07:08,495
But the initial reports
show that he was
158
00:07:08,528 --> 00:07:12,365
at the Ox Roast all night,
so he has the perfect alibi.
159
00:07:12,399 --> 00:07:14,267
Is there
something we're missing?
160
00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:16,503
Think of all the reasons
why you could make
161
00:07:16,536 --> 00:07:19,806
the argument that Billie Lynn
really did just run away.
162
00:07:19,839 --> 00:07:22,709
-He was abusive.
-Could get away from the abuse.
163
00:07:22,742 --> 00:07:25,845
Billie's father had given her
around a thousand dollars
164
00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:27,914
just prior
to her disappearance.
165
00:07:27,947 --> 00:07:29,916
So I mean, she would've
had a little bit of money.
166
00:07:29,949 --> 00:07:31,584
-Yeah.
-She outgrew him.
167
00:07:31,618 --> 00:07:33,753
-So she was becoming more--
-Independent.
168
00:07:33,787 --> 00:07:36,356
-Independent.
-Who files for the divorce?
169
00:07:36,389 --> 00:07:39,359
-She did first.
-Divorce a factor?
170
00:07:39,392 --> 00:07:42,562
We can figure it out. I mean,
those are all pretty big things.
171
00:07:42,595 --> 00:07:44,931
Any one of 'em would be
enough to make you run away
172
00:07:44,964 --> 00:07:46,533
if it's true.
173
00:07:46,566 --> 00:07:49,135
Cold cases are
basically solved two ways.
174
00:07:49,169 --> 00:07:52,439
Either you get really lucky with
physical evidence like finding
175
00:07:52,472 --> 00:07:55,909
the body or having DNA
or with circumstantial evidence.
176
00:07:55,942 --> 00:07:59,879
So while we're hopeful for
the dig, our goal is to try
177
00:07:59,913 --> 00:08:01,681
and build a circumstantial
evidence case
178
00:08:01,715 --> 00:08:03,616
by talking to witnesses.
179
00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:06,119
We're gonna need to gather every
little piece of information
180
00:08:06,152 --> 00:08:09,389
from them to try and figure out
what happened to Billie Lynn.
181
00:08:09,422 --> 00:08:12,058
It's a pretty good board,
even without finding remains.
182
00:08:12,092 --> 00:08:13,827
Yeah.
183
00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:15,562
And we're hoping that
you get a miracle,
184
00:08:15,595 --> 00:08:17,397
but that will be a miracle.
185
00:08:19,899 --> 00:08:24,070
["Crimes" by Katie Ainge]
186
00:08:24,104 --> 00:08:28,541
* I can't travel far enough *
187
00:08:28,575 --> 00:08:31,745
* I can't find a place to hide *
188
00:08:31,778 --> 00:08:34,914
We're excited to go
check out the dig site.
189
00:08:34,948 --> 00:08:37,584
But first, we wanna meet
Billie Lynn's children.
190
00:08:37,617 --> 00:08:41,621
Thank you.
191
00:08:41,654 --> 00:08:43,523
Nice to meet you.
192
00:08:44,858 --> 00:08:46,292
We're excited to come see y'all
193
00:08:46,326 --> 00:08:48,428
and talk to y'all
about everything.
194
00:08:48,461 --> 00:08:51,131
We appreciate you coming
here and trying to help us.
195
00:08:51,164 --> 00:08:53,833
Hopefully get some closure.
What we're all hoping for.
196
00:08:53,867 --> 00:08:55,669
That's what
we're hoping for, Mike.
197
00:08:55,702 --> 00:08:58,972
I've been working with
some remain detection dogs.
198
00:08:59,072 --> 00:09:00,774
We're trying
to look for your mom.
199
00:09:00,807 --> 00:09:02,609
I don't wanna
give you false hope
200
00:09:02,642 --> 00:09:04,811
that we're gonna find her there.
It's still a long shot.
201
00:09:04,844 --> 00:09:06,513
But Michelle, listen,
we're coming at this
202
00:09:06,546 --> 00:09:08,214
from two kind of
different points of view.
203
00:09:08,248 --> 00:09:10,283
Mike is very excited
that something is gonna
204
00:09:10,316 --> 00:09:11,918
happen with this dig,
and he's doing everything
205
00:09:12,018 --> 00:09:13,820
he can to
try and make that happen.
206
00:09:13,853 --> 00:09:17,490
My goal and plan here with
Mike is to try and find every
207
00:09:17,524 --> 00:09:20,493
name in the file of every
single person that lived
208
00:09:20,527 --> 00:09:24,197
in your mom and dad's world 45
years ago to see what can they
209
00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:26,633
say that's admissible
in the courtroom today.
210
00:09:26,666 --> 00:09:28,935
And is that enough to
put the case together?
211
00:09:29,035 --> 00:09:33,073
You were so little, but how much
do you remember about your mom?
212
00:09:34,708 --> 00:09:36,843
-Not a-- not a lot.
-Okay.
213
00:09:36,876 --> 00:09:40,847
My mom was a dancer, and she
taught dancing in our basement.
214
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,316
And that's how she was
known in the community.
215
00:09:43,350 --> 00:09:45,218
Everybody just loved her.
216
00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:46,853
It was just like what
you did on Saturdays
217
00:09:46,886 --> 00:09:48,722
was went to Billie Lynn's
and danced.
218
00:09:48,755 --> 00:09:53,226
My mom was just a genuine
good person, very easygoing.
219
00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:58,198
She was the type of person that,
once you met her, you liked her.
220
00:09:58,231 --> 00:10:01,234
I mean, she just had
that personality.
221
00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:06,039
It just weights on you.
That hurt doesn't go away.
222
00:10:06,072 --> 00:10:08,441
It's-- it's difficult.
223
00:10:11,077 --> 00:10:14,180
How much do you remember
about that July the 4th?
224
00:10:14,214 --> 00:10:16,016
I don't really remember.
225
00:10:16,049 --> 00:10:17,751
-Okay.
-I go blank.
226
00:10:17,784 --> 00:10:21,654
After July the 4th,
did there ever happen
227
00:10:21,688 --> 00:10:23,423
a conversation
or a confrontation
228
00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:25,025
where you said anything
to him about--
229
00:10:25,058 --> 00:10:26,893
We weren't allowed.
It was forbidden.
230
00:10:26,926 --> 00:10:29,329
He never spoke of it.
He never spoke of it.
231
00:10:29,362 --> 00:10:31,164
He said, "Don't ever talk
to me about that again."
232
00:10:31,197 --> 00:10:32,999
Your dad told you that?
233
00:10:33,033 --> 00:10:34,934
Yeah. And this was
shortly after it happened.
234
00:10:34,968 --> 00:10:36,503
Wow.
235
00:10:36,536 --> 00:10:38,004
Every belonging of hers
was just gone.
236
00:10:38,038 --> 00:10:39,706
It was out of the house.
237
00:10:39,739 --> 00:10:41,841
You couldn't have
nothing in your room,
238
00:10:41,875 --> 00:10:44,244
no pictures of her in
your room or anything like that.
239
00:10:44,277 --> 00:10:46,980
I would lay in bed a lot
and cry, especially at night.
240
00:10:47,013 --> 00:10:48,982
He would just close the door
241
00:10:49,015 --> 00:10:51,484
and then he just ignored me
after that.
242
00:10:51,518 --> 00:10:53,820
Not try to comfort you?
243
00:10:53,853 --> 00:10:55,622
-No.
-I don't know how you do that.
244
00:10:55,655 --> 00:10:57,657
You know, be that cold.
245
00:10:57,691 --> 00:10:59,959
I don't have anything
to say nice about him.
246
00:11:00,060 --> 00:11:01,628
Nothing positive at all.
247
00:11:01,661 --> 00:11:03,897
I tried to steer clear of him.
248
00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:06,099
I just knew that it was
an unspoken subject
249
00:11:06,132 --> 00:11:09,336
not to talk about.
250
00:11:09,369 --> 00:11:11,938
Having to grow up without a mom,
251
00:11:11,971 --> 00:11:14,474
there's been a lot
of lonely times.
252
00:11:14,507 --> 00:11:17,711
The first seven years
of my life, she gave me
253
00:11:17,744 --> 00:11:21,481
the influence to be
the nurturing person that I am.
254
00:11:21,514 --> 00:11:23,483
And I'm thankful for that.
255
00:11:23,516 --> 00:11:26,086
And the-- I just try to carry
that on in my life and through
256
00:11:26,086 --> 00:11:29,556
my kids as she would want me to,
you know?
257
00:11:29,589 --> 00:11:32,092
So that's how I try to
live my life each day.
258
00:11:32,125 --> 00:11:34,928
Can you talk
about your dad's temper?
259
00:11:34,961 --> 00:11:40,266
Anytime he would lose
control is when the rage came.
260
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:43,470
If he felt for a second
that she had another friend,
261
00:11:43,503 --> 00:11:47,440
male or female,
that's when he exploded.
262
00:11:47,474 --> 00:11:49,642
Whatever it is he had to do,
he was gonna do.
263
00:11:49,676 --> 00:11:52,212
He was stopping her from going
to visit other people?
264
00:11:52,245 --> 00:11:54,347
-Yeah.
-He was just mean and angry
265
00:11:54,381 --> 00:11:56,282
at-- at-- at everything
and everyone.
266
00:11:56,316 --> 00:11:58,885
How much were you aware
about the divorce?
267
00:11:58,918 --> 00:12:02,389
Just that they were planning it.
I don't think I knew that much.
268
00:12:02,422 --> 00:12:05,492
My mom's attorney told her
that she wasn't allowed to leave
269
00:12:05,525 --> 00:12:08,061
the house because she
wouldn't get Mark and I.
270
00:12:08,061 --> 00:12:10,063
So she stayed in the
house and took the abuse
271
00:12:10,063 --> 00:12:13,366
for fear of leaving, losing us.
272
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,735
If she stayed there because
she wanted to keep us,
273
00:12:15,769 --> 00:12:17,604
-why would she leave us?
-Exactly.
274
00:12:17,637 --> 00:12:21,341
A lot of cold cases go
cold for all kinds of reasons.
275
00:12:21,374 --> 00:12:23,643
-And we're hoping--
-Like, I understand what
276
00:12:23,677 --> 00:12:26,513
you're trying to do, but it's
a lot of years to live with.
277
00:12:26,546 --> 00:12:30,216
-You know?
-I do. I wanna scream sometimes.
278
00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:33,086
I wanna scream, like, it's--
it's frustrating.
279
00:12:33,086 --> 00:12:35,655
We're gonna try.
We're trying so hard.
280
00:12:35,689 --> 00:12:37,357
Thank you
for everything you're doing.
281
00:12:37,390 --> 00:12:39,359
-You're welcome.
-Thanks. Appreciate it.
282
00:12:39,392 --> 00:12:45,398
Wow. You walk in the room, and
you can feel anger and sorrow.
283
00:12:45,432 --> 00:12:50,103
Their whole world changed
on the 4th of July, 1977,
284
00:12:50,136 --> 00:12:51,905
and they were babies.
285
00:12:51,938 --> 00:12:53,940
And they're still trying
to deal with it and process it
286
00:12:53,973 --> 00:12:55,608
for a lifetime.
287
00:12:55,642 --> 00:12:58,111
And it's time that we
do something about it,
288
00:12:58,111 --> 00:13:00,880
and I just really hope we can.
289
00:13:00,914 --> 00:13:03,883
-Thanks, Mike.
-You're welcome.
290
00:13:03,917 --> 00:13:14,294
***
291
00:13:14,327 --> 00:13:18,398
[broodi***music]
292
00:13:18,431 --> 00:13:23,336
In July of 1977, Billie Lynn
Groff mysteriously disappeared.
293
00:13:23,370 --> 00:13:25,872
Let's go see.
294
00:13:25,905 --> 00:13:28,208
The police have been
investigating
295
00:13:28,241 --> 00:13:30,310
that her husband of ten years,
Ed Groff,
296
00:13:30,343 --> 00:13:33,146
may have killed her and buried
her near his mother's house.
297
00:13:33,179 --> 00:13:37,550
So the dig is on to see if
we can locate her remains.
298
00:13:37,584 --> 00:13:39,986
Okay. So give us an orientation
of what's--
299
00:13:40,086 --> 00:13:42,655
what's the strategy
and layout plan for the dig.
300
00:13:42,689 --> 00:13:44,190
And which way is the house?
301
00:13:44,224 --> 00:13:46,092
Basically,
like, right through that--
302
00:13:46,092 --> 00:13:48,128
Right through there's the house?
303
00:13:48,161 --> 00:13:50,263
Right. We cleared that area, so
we decided to check this area.
304
00:13:50,296 --> 00:13:52,565
This tall tree that's
standing there now
305
00:13:52,599 --> 00:13:56,536
was the first location one
of our dogs hit on.
306
00:13:56,569 --> 00:13:58,538
Oh wow. Okay.
307
00:13:58,571 --> 00:14:02,275
Our stump over there is where
the second dog alerted first.
308
00:14:02,308 --> 00:14:04,944
And we had a couple
of hits in the middle,
309
00:14:05,045 --> 00:14:07,614
and then
one over on this wood line.
310
00:14:07,647 --> 00:14:11,084
Odors can get drawn up into
trees through the root systems.
311
00:14:11,117 --> 00:14:14,087
So we picked an area that was
kinda in the middle of all that,
312
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,556
and we are-- we are working
our way out from there.
313
00:14:16,589 --> 00:14:19,225
While cadaver dogs can
be eerily accurate
314
00:14:19,259 --> 00:14:23,363
at detecting human remains,
it's been over 45 years,
315
00:14:23,396 --> 00:14:24,931
and that scent and the bones
316
00:14:24,964 --> 00:14:27,067
could have moved
through the soil.
317
00:14:27,067 --> 00:14:29,769
So even if Billie Lynn's
remains were here,
318
00:14:29,803 --> 00:14:31,371
finding them in this vast area
319
00:14:31,404 --> 00:14:33,206
is gonna be a heck
of a challenge.
320
00:14:33,239 --> 00:14:35,175
All right. Well,
thank you for showing us this.
321
00:14:35,208 --> 00:14:37,544
For now, y'all wanna just
go start talking to witnesses?
322
00:14:37,577 --> 00:14:39,479
-Sounds good.
-All right. Let's go, let's go.
323
00:14:41,581 --> 00:14:43,717
***
324
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:46,219
Let me get together all
the phone calls we can make
325
00:14:46,252 --> 00:14:48,121
and we'll get some coffee
and start doing that.
326
00:14:48,154 --> 00:14:50,156
Yeah. I thought we would
just go straight down.
327
00:14:51,591 --> 00:14:54,127
Hi, doctor.
Thanks for meeting with us.
328
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,729
Sure.
329
00:14:55,762 --> 00:14:57,964
It's time to start
talking to witnesses,
330
00:14:57,997 --> 00:15:00,600
and we need to track down
every single one of them.
331
00:15:00,633 --> 00:15:03,036
Hi, this is Sergeant Mike Banic
from Hubbard City Police.
332
00:15:03,036 --> 00:15:05,271
But after 45 years,
that's a challenge.
333
00:15:05,305 --> 00:15:07,340
Do you remember that
case at all?
334
00:15:07,374 --> 00:15:10,043
It doesn't ring any bells,
I'll be honest with you.
335
00:15:10,043 --> 00:15:13,046
Can we find them?
Are they even still alive?
336
00:15:13,046 --> 00:15:15,081
And if they are,
are they gonna remember
337
00:15:15,115 --> 00:15:17,450
all the details that they
used to know 45 years ago?
338
00:15:17,484 --> 00:15:21,654
I'm looking for a guy that used
to know a fella named Ed Groff.
339
00:15:21,688 --> 00:15:23,690
Is that you, by chance?
340
00:15:26,292 --> 00:15:28,895
We need to
keep dialing and keep knocking
341
00:15:28,928 --> 00:15:32,499
and keep praying and hoping that
God is on our side in this case.
342
00:15:32,532 --> 00:15:34,801
Had you heard about the
disappearance in Hubbard?
343
00:15:34,834 --> 00:15:41,474
I did hear about it, but I know
absolutely nothing about it.
344
00:15:41,508 --> 00:15:43,443
We're sorry.
345
00:15:43,476 --> 00:15:45,578
You have reached a number
that has been dis--
346
00:15:45,612 --> 00:15:48,281
Hi, I'm Detective Mike Banic.
I'm looking for Amanda.
347
00:15:48,314 --> 00:15:49,582
Right here. Hello?
348
00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:51,284
-That's you?
-Yeah. Hi.
349
00:15:51,317 --> 00:15:53,086
Kinda young for the
one we're looking for.
350
00:15:53,086 --> 00:15:54,754
[laughs]
351
00:15:54,788 --> 00:15:56,823
Thanks for calling today.
352
00:15:56,856 --> 00:15:58,958
You'll have the opportunity
to receive a $100
353
00:15:58,992 --> 00:16:00,794
-retail rebate voucher.
-That sounds legit.
354
00:16:00,827 --> 00:16:02,562
Which you can redeem
355
00:16:02,595 --> 00:16:04,464
from your purchases
at major retail--
356
00:16:04,497 --> 00:16:07,300
We were
all just good friends in school
357
00:16:07,334 --> 00:16:09,669
and we always
honored Billie Lynn.
358
00:16:09,703 --> 00:16:12,072
We just felt so bad
that she disappeared.
359
00:16:12,105 --> 00:16:15,175
We could never hear or
finding her or anything.
360
00:16:15,208 --> 00:16:17,210
So y'all
were all in the same class?
361
00:16:17,243 --> 00:16:19,746
-Yeah, 1966.
-You and Billie Lynn and Eddie?
362
00:16:19,779 --> 00:16:21,748
-All also, yeah. All of us.
-Wow.
363
00:16:21,781 --> 00:16:23,883
We finally got some luck.
364
00:16:23,917 --> 00:16:27,053
We found this high school
friend of Billie Lynn and Ed,
365
00:16:27,087 --> 00:16:28,888
who's willing to talk to us.
366
00:16:28,922 --> 00:16:31,191
Let's hope
she remembers something.
367
00:16:31,224 --> 00:16:35,528
Billie Lynn and Eddie, they
were going together in school.
368
00:16:35,562 --> 00:16:38,131
What could you tell us
about Billie?
369
00:16:38,164 --> 00:16:39,699
She was nice.
370
00:16:39,733 --> 00:16:41,668
I mean, she was friendly,
outgoing,
371
00:16:41,701 --> 00:16:43,303
but she
was sheltered with Eddie.
372
00:16:43,336 --> 00:16:45,071
He was just controlling.
373
00:16:45,071 --> 00:16:46,840
You wouldn't see her
talking to nobody else.
374
00:16:46,873 --> 00:16:48,475
No way.
Mm-mm.
375
00:16:48,508 --> 00:16:51,678
We was just so surprised
that she married him now.
376
00:16:51,711 --> 00:16:53,313
I mean, he actually
locked her in a locker.
377
00:16:53,346 --> 00:16:54,981
-Inside the locker?
-Yeah.
378
00:16:55,081 --> 00:16:57,183
Did she ever talk about
him hitting her or?
379
00:16:57,217 --> 00:16:58,885
He was a touchy subject.
380
00:16:58,918 --> 00:17:01,287
But in those
days that's how it was.
381
00:17:01,321 --> 00:17:03,590
You kept things to
yourself and you were scared
382
00:17:03,623 --> 00:17:05,258
to talk to people about it.
383
00:17:05,291 --> 00:17:07,093
Or do anything about it.
384
00:17:07,127 --> 00:17:08,762
Getting
a divorce was a big deal.
385
00:17:08,795 --> 00:17:10,630
Big deal.
You just didn't do that.
386
00:17:10,663 --> 00:17:14,034
At a time when getting
divorced was really rare,
387
00:17:14,034 --> 00:17:16,603
Billie Lynn was
determined to do something.
388
00:17:16,636 --> 00:17:18,438
And I think that's a
pretty good indication
389
00:17:18,471 --> 00:17:20,607
of how bad her marriage was.
390
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,609
It seems like she was
more fearful of Ed
391
00:17:22,642 --> 00:17:25,412
than she was of the stigma
of being divorced.
392
00:17:25,445 --> 00:17:28,281
What do you think would've
happened based on all you saw,
393
00:17:28,314 --> 00:17:30,050
if she had tried to
break up with him?
394
00:17:30,050 --> 00:17:33,853
Oh, he would definitely
[laughs] landed her.
395
00:17:33,887 --> 00:17:35,955
When you say landed,
you mean he would've--
396
00:17:36,056 --> 00:17:38,291
-he would've hit--
-Did something to her. Yeah.
397
00:17:40,894 --> 00:17:46,132
***
398
00:17:46,166 --> 00:17:47,801
[phone line ringing]
399
00:17:47,834 --> 00:17:50,103
-Hello?
-Hello, this is Sergeant Haney
400
00:17:50,136 --> 00:17:51,905
with the City of Hubbard
Police Department.
401
00:17:51,938 --> 00:17:54,140
We need to talk to a
close friend of Billie Lynn's.
402
00:17:54,174 --> 00:17:56,276
She may have insight
into her state of mind
403
00:17:56,309 --> 00:17:58,912
and the emotional toll of
her strained marriage.
404
00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:01,181
It looks like you-- you guys
were pretty good friends
405
00:18:01,214 --> 00:18:02,882
and you guys
were also neighbors.
406
00:18:04,017 --> 00:18:05,352
Do you remember the last
407
00:18:05,385 --> 00:18:07,253
conversation
you had with Billie?
408
00:18:13,226 --> 00:18:15,528
Did she ever give you
any explanation
409
00:18:15,562 --> 00:18:17,364
as to why he would get upset
410
00:18:17,397 --> 00:18:20,667
and caused the bruises or the
broken door?
411
00:18:26,639 --> 00:18:29,175
Did you have any dealings with
him after the disappearance?
412
00:18:29,209 --> 00:18:30,910
Did you ever meet him after?
413
00:18:44,491 --> 00:18:46,893
Do you think
she would've left her children?
414
00:18:55,502 --> 00:18:57,504
Yeah.
415
00:18:57,537 --> 00:18:59,839
It's hard to imagine a
mother leaving her children,
416
00:18:59,873 --> 00:19:02,409
but the hesitation in her voice,
it speaks volumes.
417
00:19:02,442 --> 00:19:04,711
She knew as well as anyone
the dire circumstances
418
00:19:04,744 --> 00:19:07,013
that Billie Lynn was facing.
419
00:19:07,013 --> 00:19:09,883
For all the reasons that people
suspected that Ed killed her,
420
00:19:09,916 --> 00:19:12,652
they also could have been the
motivation for her to escape.
421
00:19:20,694 --> 00:19:24,898
***
422
00:19:31,104 --> 00:19:34,374
Did anybody call y'all back
on our witness list?
423
00:19:34,407 --> 00:19:36,242
Well, it-- it wasn't fruitful.
424
00:19:36,276 --> 00:19:39,045
We had one lead that
I followed and--
425
00:19:39,079 --> 00:19:41,681
and it's a 95 year old man
that is local,
426
00:19:41,715 --> 00:19:44,718
but he has no recollection of
the name or any of this.
427
00:19:44,751 --> 00:19:46,219
Okay.
428
00:19:46,252 --> 00:19:48,088
We did speak with a polygrapher.
429
00:19:48,121 --> 00:19:50,357
He said that he doesn't
recall the interview.
430
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:53,526
He's done over 7,000 interviews,
plus he's 85 years old.
431
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,462
It's always a long shot,
but we always try
432
00:19:55,495 --> 00:19:56,696
'cause sometimes you get lucky.
433
00:19:56,730 --> 00:19:58,531
-Right. Yeah.
-Okay.
434
00:19:58,565 --> 00:20:00,467
We're interviewing and
everybody that we can find who
435
00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:02,102
might have information
on the disappearance
436
00:20:02,135 --> 00:20:03,903
and possible murder
of Billie Lynn Groff.
437
00:20:03,937 --> 00:20:06,339
While we work
on tracking 'em down,
438
00:20:06,373 --> 00:20:08,008
the other team is off to talk
439
00:20:08,041 --> 00:20:10,744
to Billie Lynn's
really good friend Ann Cliness.
440
00:20:10,777 --> 00:20:12,612
I'm here working on the
Billie Lynn Groff case.
441
00:20:12,645 --> 00:20:14,748
Oh my God.
442
00:20:14,781 --> 00:20:17,617
According to the offense report,
after returning home
443
00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:20,453
from church, Billie Lynn called
her friend Ann Cliness
444
00:20:20,487 --> 00:20:22,489
around 9:30 p.m.
445
00:20:22,522 --> 00:20:24,791
which would make her
the very last person
446
00:20:24,824 --> 00:20:27,327
Billie Lynn ever talked to.
447
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:30,130
We were friends and we
really liked each other,
448
00:20:30,163 --> 00:20:32,365
and she became my accompanist.
449
00:20:32,399 --> 00:20:36,269
She was a pianist.
She was very vivacious.
450
00:20:36,302 --> 00:20:38,138
She was a good mom.
451
00:20:38,171 --> 00:20:40,306
She was just
a little shining light.
452
00:20:40,340 --> 00:20:44,811
Did she confide in you
about how Ed treated her?
453
00:20:44,844 --> 00:20:48,748
Well, I-- she did tell
me things when he got angry
454
00:20:48,782 --> 00:20:50,350
about how he treated her.
455
00:20:50,383 --> 00:20:52,318
He was being very abusive
456
00:20:52,352 --> 00:20:54,754
and that's one reason
she wanted to go.
457
00:20:54,788 --> 00:20:57,824
She wanted to get away from him.
458
00:20:57,857 --> 00:20:59,793
But she would never leave her
kids, right?
459
00:20:59,826 --> 00:21:01,594
She would never do that.
460
00:21:01,628 --> 00:21:04,764
So in your statement, you have
461
00:21:04,798 --> 00:21:07,367
that you talked to Billie
on July 4th.
462
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,169
Does that sound familiar?
463
00:21:09,202 --> 00:21:11,071
4th of July she called
me and said
464
00:21:11,071 --> 00:21:13,073
that she was gonna meet me
the next day.
465
00:21:13,073 --> 00:21:15,508
After our voice lessons,
she was gonna give me
466
00:21:15,542 --> 00:21:19,179
what little money she had to--
to hide for-- to keep for her.
467
00:21:19,212 --> 00:21:21,981
I never got
it because she never came.
468
00:21:22,082 --> 00:21:23,983
-Right.
-Right.
469
00:21:24,084 --> 00:21:26,353
We know that shortly
before Billie Lynn disappeared,
470
00:21:26,386 --> 00:21:29,222
her father gave her
$1,000 to pay for school.
471
00:21:29,255 --> 00:21:31,925
We initially thought she could
have used that money to flee,
472
00:21:31,958 --> 00:21:35,095
but now it appears she
had another plan in place.
473
00:21:35,095 --> 00:21:37,931
Her divorce was in progress
and she was stashing away money
474
00:21:37,964 --> 00:21:41,001
in order to get her
and her babies to safety.
475
00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:43,236
Unfortunately,
that day never came.
476
00:21:43,269 --> 00:21:45,872
That night she said to me,
"Here they come.
477
00:21:45,905 --> 00:21:47,907
I'll see you tomorrow."
478
00:21:47,941 --> 00:21:50,110
Who do you think she thought
was coming?
479
00:21:50,110 --> 00:21:52,345
Well, I think she knew he
was bringing the children home
480
00:21:52,379 --> 00:21:55,115
because when she called me,
I think I remember her saying,
481
00:21:55,115 --> 00:21:57,917
"You know, I don't have long."
She didn't wanna upset him.
482
00:21:57,951 --> 00:22:00,420
I think she was afraid,
but I never expected
483
00:22:00,453 --> 00:22:02,055
to never see her again.
484
00:22:02,055 --> 00:22:05,825
***
485
00:22:05,859 --> 00:22:09,596
***
486
00:22:09,629 --> 00:22:13,066
According to Ann Cliness,
the very last thing
487
00:22:13,066 --> 00:22:15,935
Billie Lynn told her was,
"Here they come."
488
00:22:15,969 --> 00:22:19,205
Assuming that the car pulling
up was her family.
489
00:22:19,239 --> 00:22:21,608
That was shortly after 9:30 p.m.
490
00:22:21,641 --> 00:22:24,077
But we know Billie Lynn's
family didn't return
491
00:22:24,077 --> 00:22:27,380
'till roughly an hour later
when Ed's mother and sister
492
00:22:27,414 --> 00:22:31,384
brought the kids home,
followed by Ed in his car,
493
00:22:31,418 --> 00:22:33,219
and Billie Lynn was
nowhere to be found.
494
00:22:33,253 --> 00:22:36,089
Is it possible that Ed
left the Ox Roast
495
00:22:36,122 --> 00:22:39,893
and made a trip on his own
without anyone noticing?
496
00:22:39,926 --> 00:22:41,961
-So this is our house?
-Yep.
497
00:22:41,995 --> 00:22:43,596
We know that she's on the phone
498
00:22:43,630 --> 00:22:45,265
with Ann Cliness and someone
pulls in.
499
00:22:45,298 --> 00:22:46,566
Whoever's turning in,
they're turning in
500
00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:48,435
and they're right there.
501
00:22:48,468 --> 00:22:50,270
So she would've definitely
known it was him pulling in.
502
00:22:50,303 --> 00:22:51,738
-When she said they.
-They.
503
00:22:51,771 --> 00:22:53,373
-They're home.
-Yeah, definitely.
504
00:22:53,406 --> 00:22:55,442
If Ed did come home alone,
I can't imagine
505
00:22:55,475 --> 00:22:57,744
what Billie Lynn was thinking
when she realized
506
00:22:57,777 --> 00:22:59,579
that their kids were not
with them.
507
00:22:59,612 --> 00:23:02,615
So then he comes in,
maybe whatever happens, happens.
508
00:23:02,649 --> 00:23:06,419
That garage, there's a door,
can go right to the kitchen.
509
00:23:06,453 --> 00:23:08,488
If you wanted to move somebody,
just put a car
510
00:23:08,521 --> 00:23:10,590
in the garage and shut the door.
511
00:23:10,623 --> 00:23:12,625
Then you could bring
her straight into the garage,
512
00:23:12,659 --> 00:23:16,062
put her in a trunk of the car,
open the garage, and go.
513
00:23:16,062 --> 00:23:17,831
-That changes--
-That's a huge point.
514
00:23:17,864 --> 00:23:19,833
It is. Right.
515
00:23:19,866 --> 00:23:22,535
If you were gonna take the
body out in the trunk of the car
516
00:23:22,569 --> 00:23:25,772
and go to wherever you
think he-- she was taken,
517
00:23:25,805 --> 00:23:27,340
how long of time are
we talking about?
518
00:23:27,374 --> 00:23:29,309
Back then,
I-I'm sure he could have made
519
00:23:29,342 --> 00:23:31,678
that trip in seven,
eight minutes. Easy.
520
00:23:31,711 --> 00:23:33,513
So let's just say ten.
521
00:23:33,546 --> 00:23:35,548
Ten plus ten is 20 plus
whatever he needs to do
522
00:23:35,582 --> 00:23:36,783
to get rid of the body.
523
00:23:36,816 --> 00:23:38,184
How many hours to dig a hole?
524
00:23:38,218 --> 00:23:40,086
Four? I don't know.
525
00:23:40,086 --> 00:23:42,222
If he's digging a hole,
he's gone a lot longer time.
526
00:23:42,255 --> 00:23:46,092
If Ed did kill Billie Lynn
during this one hour window,
527
00:23:46,126 --> 00:23:48,762
how did he have enough time to
drive to the property
528
00:23:48,795 --> 00:23:51,197
near his mom's house,
dig the hole
529
00:23:51,231 --> 00:23:53,600
and then bury Billie Lynn there?
530
00:23:53,633 --> 00:23:57,103
Did he temporarily hide the body
somewhere in their home?
531
00:23:57,103 --> 00:23:59,205
How could he have pulled
this off
532
00:23:59,239 --> 00:24:01,841
without the kids
finding their mom dead?
533
00:24:01,875 --> 00:24:06,046
***
534
00:24:10,183 --> 00:24:13,319
e.
535
00:24:13,353 --> 00:24:15,655
Right in front of my family.
In front of the whole place.
536
00:24:15,689 --> 00:24:17,090
Oh, wow.
537
00:24:17,123 --> 00:24:18,692
He reminds me
of a control freak.
538
00:24:18,725 --> 00:24:21,261
-That flag went up right away.
-Okay.
539
00:24:21,294 --> 00:24:23,697
Now that we have evidence
suggesting that Billie Lynn
540
00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:26,766
did not voluntarily leave,
we're gonna dig into
541
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,302
the world of our main suspect
Ed Groff.
542
00:24:29,336 --> 00:24:32,605
We've heard that he was
a jealous, possessive husband
543
00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:35,442
that abused her,
but was he capable of murder?
544
00:24:35,475 --> 00:24:37,110
He was kind of a strange guy.
545
00:24:37,143 --> 00:24:38,712
How -- how would you
say strange?
546
00:24:38,745 --> 00:24:40,714
Distant.
547
00:24:40,747 --> 00:24:42,982
We're still working through
the people on our witness list,
548
00:24:43,083 --> 00:24:45,151
including Ed's ex-girlfriends,
to see if there's any kind
549
00:24:45,185 --> 00:24:48,188
of pattern of violent
behavior in his relationships.
550
00:24:57,964 --> 00:25:01,034
You felt concerned for your
safety back then around Ed?
551
00:25:12,645 --> 00:25:13,880
Wow.
552
00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:25,825
How long were you guys together?
553
00:25:25,859 --> 00:25:28,261
A couple years.
554
00:25:28,294 --> 00:25:30,797
And then we broke up
and then he tried running me off
555
00:25:30,830 --> 00:25:33,667
the road,
followed me everywhere.
556
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:37,103
He kept showing up at the house.
He gets obsessed, I think.
557
00:25:37,137 --> 00:25:39,639
I don't know. He scared the
crap outta me. I do know that.
558
00:25:39,673 --> 00:25:41,508
Then I was cutting the grass.
559
00:25:41,541 --> 00:25:43,977
I remember some kind of a hold,
it was him.
560
00:25:44,077 --> 00:25:45,879
He grabbed me up and
put me on the porch.
561
00:25:45,912 --> 00:25:47,714
You were on the lawnmower,
and he grabbed you by--
562
00:25:47,747 --> 00:25:49,115
From behind.
563
00:25:49,149 --> 00:25:50,750
Putting
his arm around your neck,
564
00:25:50,784 --> 00:25:52,686
and then he led you
to the-- to the house?
565
00:25:52,719 --> 00:25:54,821
Did he have his arm around
your neck the whole time
566
00:25:54,854 --> 00:25:56,656
-you walked to the--
-Yes. I was afraid.
567
00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:59,325
Finally, he just stopped.
568
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,262
Deborah's story of Ed's
attack is yet another example
569
00:26:02,295 --> 00:26:05,532
of Ed's anger toward women
once the relationship ends,
570
00:26:05,565 --> 00:26:07,834
and it seems
his pattern of controlling,
571
00:26:07,867 --> 00:26:10,470
stalking
and abuse spanned decades.
572
00:26:10,503 --> 00:26:12,138
-You've had quite an experience.
-Yeah.
573
00:26:12,172 --> 00:26:15,775
He gave me the creeps.
I'm sorry.
574
00:26:15,809 --> 00:26:17,444
Could Ed have
strangled Billie Lynn
575
00:26:17,477 --> 00:26:19,512
the same way he did Deborah?
576
00:26:19,546 --> 00:26:21,748
You hear a lot of the
same things over and over now.
577
00:26:21,781 --> 00:26:23,049
Yeah.
578
00:26:23,049 --> 00:26:29,856
***
579
00:26:29,889 --> 00:26:32,359
-You met Janice before, huh?
-Yes.
580
00:26:32,392 --> 00:26:35,695
How is she feeling about
telling all she knows?
581
00:26:35,729 --> 00:26:39,065
She's talking about her brother.
That's a concern for her.
582
00:26:39,065 --> 00:26:41,601
I give her credit 'cause
not everybody does that.
583
00:26:41,634 --> 00:26:43,570
We're down to the last
two witnesses we were
584
00:26:43,603 --> 00:26:45,238
hoping to
find while we were here.
585
00:26:45,271 --> 00:26:48,341
Ed's sister,
Janice and her daughter Donna.
586
00:26:48,375 --> 00:26:50,443
You ready?
587
00:26:50,477 --> 00:26:53,313
We've heard that over the years,
Janice has become more open
588
00:26:53,346 --> 00:26:56,082
to the idea that her
brother Ed was involved
589
00:26:56,116 --> 00:26:59,085
in the disappearance of
Billie Lynn.
590
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,054
If she knows anything,
now is the time
591
00:27:01,087 --> 00:27:03,223
for Janice to
tell us all that she can.
592
00:27:03,256 --> 00:27:04,924
-Janice, I'm Kelly.
-Hi Kelly.
593
00:27:05,025 --> 00:27:06,559
-Nice to meet you.
-Nice to meet you too.
594
00:27:06,593 --> 00:27:08,028
So excited to meet you.
595
00:27:08,061 --> 00:27:10,263
-I'm a nervous wreck.
-I know you are.
596
00:27:10,296 --> 00:27:13,099
-It's okay.
-I have conflicted feelings.
597
00:27:13,133 --> 00:27:16,336
I'm really conflicted.
I-- I'm-- I'm-- yeah.
598
00:27:16,369 --> 00:27:17,771
-You would have to be.
-Yeah.
599
00:27:17,804 --> 00:27:19,572
He's your brother. You love him.
600
00:27:19,606 --> 00:27:21,908
Mm-hmm.
When this first happened,
601
00:27:21,941 --> 00:27:25,211
even the things that were
so obvious, we denied.
602
00:27:25,245 --> 00:27:27,580
We-- we-- we were in denial.
603
00:27:27,614 --> 00:27:30,717
We-- we said,
"No, he didn't do anything,
604
00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:32,952
and there has to be
another explanation.
605
00:27:33,053 --> 00:27:36,089
There has to be another reason."
606
00:27:36,122 --> 00:27:40,160
But over the years,
we all started to face
607
00:27:40,193 --> 00:27:44,230
some of us sooner than
others that, yeah.
608
00:27:44,264 --> 00:27:47,734
Okay. So we're just gonna kinda
let you tell the whole story
609
00:27:47,767 --> 00:27:50,470
and make sure that we cover
everything with you today.
610
00:27:50,503 --> 00:27:51,971
Okay?
611
00:27:52,072 --> 00:27:54,074
They were having a big
4th of July doing
612
00:27:54,074 --> 00:27:56,109
down right in the center
of town.
613
00:27:56,142 --> 00:27:57,744
Eddie said he'd bring the kids
614
00:27:57,777 --> 00:27:59,245
and we were all
gonna meet there.
615
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,816
So we got there.
Eddie wasn't there yet.
616
00:28:02,849 --> 00:28:05,785
And when my mom came in,
she said,
617
00:28:05,819 --> 00:28:08,455
"Did-- did
anybody see Billie today?"
618
00:28:08,488 --> 00:28:10,557
She was worried about Billie.
619
00:28:10,590 --> 00:28:12,325
She goes,
"Well, I saw Eddie coming out
620
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,094
of the woods with a shovel."
621
00:28:14,127 --> 00:28:16,596
And my friend said,
"What does she think?
622
00:28:16,629 --> 00:28:18,231
He killed her or something?"
623
00:28:18,264 --> 00:28:19,766
And we just started laughing.
624
00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:21,735
My mother asked him
what he was doing,
625
00:28:21,768 --> 00:28:24,237
and he said Billie wanted
a plant or a tree or something
626
00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:26,840
and he was gonna dig it up
for her or something.
627
00:28:26,873 --> 00:28:29,109
That's the excuse he gave.
628
00:28:29,142 --> 00:28:30,810
And why'd you call it an excuse?
629
00:28:30,844 --> 00:28:33,046
Because he didn't dig
up a tree or any shrub,
630
00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,048
and he wouldn't have
done that anyway
631
00:28:35,048 --> 00:28:38,051
because Billie was divorcing
him and he was angry with her.
632
00:28:38,051 --> 00:28:43,056
If Ed was seen with a shovel
by his own mom earlier that day,
633
00:28:43,089 --> 00:28:46,326
does that mean that he dug
the hole earlier that same day?
634
00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:49,162
Because if he did,
that would explain how he was
635
00:28:49,195 --> 00:28:52,399
able to bury Billie Lynn
in that short of a window.
636
00:28:52,432 --> 00:28:54,067
-What happens next?
-Eddie probably got there
637
00:28:54,067 --> 00:28:57,070
maybe about ten
or 15 minutes later.
638
00:28:57,070 --> 00:28:59,072
We're talking having
a good time.
639
00:28:59,072 --> 00:29:01,141
The kids are running, Mark
and Michelle are running around.
640
00:29:01,174 --> 00:29:03,343
And he disappears.
641
00:29:03,376 --> 00:29:08,281
Eddie was gone for quite a while
and my husband was coming back.
642
00:29:08,314 --> 00:29:13,119
He had just got a beer and then
Eddie came. And he said, "Ed."
643
00:29:13,153 --> 00:29:14,654
He said, "Why are you
sweating like that?"
644
00:29:14,688 --> 00:29:16,289
It's-- Eddie was sweating.
645
00:29:16,322 --> 00:29:18,058
Your husband said that out loud?
646
00:29:18,091 --> 00:29:20,527
Yeah. And he said, "Oh, I
couldn't find Mark and Michelle.
647
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,363
-I was looking for them."
-According to Ed,
648
00:29:23,396 --> 00:29:27,434
he never left the Ox Roast until
he went home for the night.
649
00:29:27,467 --> 00:29:30,603
We've already heard evidence
suggesting otherwise.
650
00:29:30,637 --> 00:29:33,506
And now we're hearing
that around the same time,
651
00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:38,778
he was unaccounted for and when
he did return, he was sweaty.
652
00:29:38,812 --> 00:29:41,114
It seems like Ed's perfect
little alibi
653
00:29:41,147 --> 00:29:43,216
might not be so perfect
after all.
654
00:29:43,249 --> 00:29:45,618
Being very,
very honest with you,
655
00:29:45,652 --> 00:29:48,888
if we can put this case
together, it's because of you.
656
00:29:48,922 --> 00:29:52,058
In a way I'm hoping that
it will resolve something
657
00:29:52,058 --> 00:29:53,927
for the family.
658
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,062
And in another way,
it is my brother.
659
00:29:56,062 --> 00:29:58,064
-I know.
-That's hard.
660
00:29:58,064 --> 00:30:01,601
But if he really did
do something
661
00:30:01,634 --> 00:30:04,371
then Billie deserves justice.
662
00:30:04,404 --> 00:30:07,407
We all know it's not
easy for Janice to tell
663
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,076
her story,
but we're glad she did.
664
00:30:10,110 --> 00:30:13,580
And now we have a much
better picture of Ed's movement
665
00:30:13,613 --> 00:30:17,217
and everything he did
the day his wife disappeared.
666
00:30:17,250 --> 00:30:19,853
And even more importantly,
Janice is willing to
667
00:30:19,886 --> 00:30:22,555
testify in the courtroom
against her own brother.
668
00:30:22,589 --> 00:30:24,591
This is huge.
669
00:30:24,624 --> 00:30:26,192
-Hello.
-Hi.
670
00:30:26,226 --> 00:30:28,728
Janice's daughter,
Donna has been waiting
671
00:30:28,762 --> 00:30:30,930
in the backyard to also
talk to us.
672
00:30:30,964 --> 00:30:33,933
She was only 13 years old
at the time, but we wanna see
673
00:30:33,967 --> 00:30:36,670
if she remembers anything that
could be helpful to the case.
674
00:30:36,703 --> 00:30:38,905
Is there anything you
can think of that you know
675
00:30:38,938 --> 00:30:41,141
or saw her that
we need to know about?
676
00:30:41,174 --> 00:30:43,009
Well, I wasn't in
town when it happened.
677
00:30:43,043 --> 00:30:46,079
I had been gone a couple days.
I got home July 5th.
678
00:30:46,112 --> 00:30:48,281
And that week was when
he cleaned that house
679
00:30:48,314 --> 00:30:50,150
with the Clorox.
680
00:30:50,183 --> 00:30:52,585
And I remember because
when I went over,
681
00:30:52,619 --> 00:30:54,154
I was like [sniffs],
and I smelled it.
682
00:30:54,187 --> 00:30:56,022
-Where?
-Down the basement steps.
683
00:30:56,056 --> 00:30:57,924
Right when you walked in,
it was right there.
684
00:30:57,957 --> 00:30:59,926
It hit you.
I'll never forget it.
685
00:30:59,959 --> 00:31:03,430
We just got the last piece
that we needed to put together
686
00:31:03,463 --> 00:31:07,067
a possible scenario of
how Ed killed Billie Lynn.
687
00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:10,170
It's possible that after
slipping away from the Ox Roast,
688
00:31:10,203 --> 00:31:12,772
he choked Billie Lynn and
then concealed her body
689
00:31:12,806 --> 00:31:15,608
in the basement, hoping
that nobody would find her
690
00:31:15,642 --> 00:31:19,079
until he had time to bury
the body in the pre-dug hole.
691
00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:21,081
That makes all this
sound a whole lot
692
00:31:21,081 --> 00:31:23,149
more cold-blooded
and premeditated.
693
00:31:23,183 --> 00:31:25,118
I always think that that's
where everything happened.
694
00:31:25,151 --> 00:31:26,920
Because he
cleaned those basements.
695
00:31:26,953 --> 00:31:28,922
-He didn't clean.
-He didn't clean?
696
00:31:28,955 --> 00:31:30,690
-No.
-Okay.
697
00:31:30,724 --> 00:31:32,792
I think it's time
we go talk to Ed Groff.
698
00:31:32,826 --> 00:31:44,838
***
699
00:31:44,871 --> 00:31:47,474
all the notes
from all the interviews
700
00:31:47,507 --> 00:31:51,811
with Edward Groff, there's
not a lot of detail, right?
701
00:31:51,845 --> 00:31:53,847
His initial written
statement was really short.
702
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,682
-Two sentences.
-Yep.
703
00:31:55,715 --> 00:31:57,951
And then the interviews,
they weren't real long.
704
00:31:57,984 --> 00:31:59,652
Mm-mm.
705
00:31:59,686 --> 00:32:01,454
You would think that
if your wife went missing,
706
00:32:01,488 --> 00:32:03,056
you know, all these years,
he's never contacted us
707
00:32:03,089 --> 00:32:04,357
to find out an update.
708
00:32:04,391 --> 00:32:06,126
It makes no sense.
709
00:32:06,159 --> 00:32:08,061
Maybe he'll open the
door because you're with me.
710
00:32:08,061 --> 00:32:09,929
-Yeah, right.
-He likes pretty ladies.
711
00:32:09,963 --> 00:32:11,698
Yeah.
He doesn't like bitches though.
712
00:32:11,731 --> 00:32:14,067
[laughs] I'm sure he doesn't.
713
00:32:14,067 --> 00:32:17,804
Now it's time for us to
confront our suspect, Ed Groff.
714
00:32:17,837 --> 00:32:19,639
-You ready?
-Yep.
715
00:32:19,673 --> 00:32:22,609
We wanna compare what
Ed has to say with everything
716
00:32:22,642 --> 00:32:24,878
that we've been learning
from all these witnesses.
717
00:32:24,911 --> 00:32:27,380
If he tells us something
inconsistent today,
718
00:32:27,414 --> 00:32:29,282
that can
only strengthen the case.
719
00:32:33,420 --> 00:32:35,355
-Hello?
-Hello. Good morning.
720
00:32:35,388 --> 00:32:37,190
-Hi.
-Hi.
721
00:32:37,223 --> 00:32:39,092
I'm Sergeant Mike Banic
from Hubbard City.
722
00:32:39,092 --> 00:32:40,894
I was hoping
that you could help me.
723
00:32:40,927 --> 00:32:43,730
I'm looking into the
case you filed back in '77
724
00:32:43,763 --> 00:32:46,499
of the-- your missing wife.
Can you help me?
725
00:32:46,533 --> 00:32:48,535
No, you've got the wrong person.
726
00:32:48,568 --> 00:32:51,104
-You're not Ed Groff?
-Yeah, I'm Ed Groff.
727
00:32:51,104 --> 00:32:53,239
Okay. Don't you wanna
help find your wife?
728
00:32:55,275 --> 00:32:57,143
-Not really?
-Why not?
729
00:32:58,945 --> 00:33:00,747
It's been so long.
730
00:33:00,780 --> 00:33:02,916
I don't even know
anything about it,
731
00:33:02,949 --> 00:33:05,385
but I don't feel like I'm
mentally ready to talk to,
732
00:33:05,418 --> 00:33:07,821
and I think you are
people here to trick me.
733
00:33:07,854 --> 00:33:09,489
I promise
I'm not here to trick you.
734
00:33:09,522 --> 00:33:11,091
I'm here to just get
information from you.
735
00:33:11,124 --> 00:33:13,093
Well, I don't trust cops.
736
00:33:13,126 --> 00:33:16,062
Whatever you remember, if it's
the truth, that's all we need.
737
00:33:16,062 --> 00:33:18,164
And I told
you pretty much everything.
738
00:33:18,198 --> 00:33:20,100
She said that she was leaving.
739
00:33:20,133 --> 00:33:22,902
She told people that
she was leaving, and she left.
740
00:33:22,936 --> 00:33:24,938
Where'd she tell people
she was going?
741
00:33:24,971 --> 00:33:27,407
-She didn't.
-How was your marriage?
742
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,743
Oh, we-- we got along good.
743
00:33:29,776 --> 00:33:32,112
Never-- no fights or nothing,
no violence?
744
00:33:32,145 --> 00:33:33,913
-Oh no. No.
-Okay.
745
00:33:33,947 --> 00:33:35,782
I mean, we never fought.
746
00:33:35,815 --> 00:33:38,385
We would have a few words,
but she always blamed me for
747
00:33:38,418 --> 00:33:40,620
'cause she was
pregnant in high school,
748
00:33:40,653 --> 00:33:44,090
and she always blamed
me for that pregnancy.
749
00:33:44,090 --> 00:33:46,159
You know what I mean?
750
00:33:46,192 --> 00:33:48,928
She's the one that said that
I ruined her life, you know?
751
00:33:48,962 --> 00:33:51,331
And sometimes,
she kinda blamed the kids
752
00:33:51,364 --> 00:33:53,400
and take it out on them.
753
00:33:53,433 --> 00:33:55,301
Is that why,
after when she went missing,
754
00:33:55,335 --> 00:33:57,804
you made Mark and Michelle
take down all of her pictures,
755
00:33:57,837 --> 00:34:00,306
and they weren't allowed
to ever talk about her again?
756
00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:02,042
That don't make sense to me.
757
00:34:02,042 --> 00:34:03,410
I don't remember anything
like that.
758
00:34:03,443 --> 00:34:04,744
They were
allowed to do whatever,
759
00:34:04,778 --> 00:34:06,446
pretty much anything, they want.
760
00:34:06,479 --> 00:34:08,248
Every belonging of
hers was just gone.
761
00:34:08,281 --> 00:34:09,816
It was out of the house.
762
00:34:09,849 --> 00:34:11,718
You couldn't have
nothing in your room,
763
00:34:11,751 --> 00:34:13,920
no pictures of her in
your room or anything like that.
764
00:34:13,953 --> 00:34:16,489
There are some old friends
of Billie's
765
00:34:16,523 --> 00:34:18,458
that talk about the fact
766
00:34:18,491 --> 00:34:20,927
that she had bruises on her
sometimes,
767
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,596
-some abuse going on.
-No. Never. No.
768
00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:25,231
-Not true?
-No.
769
00:34:32,839 --> 00:34:34,974
Do you remember that she had
filed for a divorce?
770
00:34:35,075 --> 00:34:38,278
-Yeah. That's okay.
-What do you mean that's okay?
771
00:34:38,311 --> 00:34:40,447
Some people
get divorces all the time.
772
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,083
So it was a friendly divorce.
You weren't upset?
773
00:34:43,083 --> 00:34:44,951
-I think so.
-Okay.
774
00:34:44,984 --> 00:34:47,120
So when's the
last time you saw her?
775
00:34:47,153 --> 00:34:49,789
When me and the kids
left to go to the party.
776
00:34:49,823 --> 00:34:52,092
That's-- that's the
last time I saw her.
777
00:34:52,092 --> 00:34:54,494
Did you stay there the
whole time that day?
778
00:34:54,527 --> 00:34:56,162
Oh yeah. I never left.
779
00:34:56,196 --> 00:34:58,365
I was with these people
the whole time.
780
00:34:58,398 --> 00:35:00,500
He disappears. Eddie
was gone for quite a while.
781
00:35:00,533 --> 00:35:02,535
It was dark when we
come home that night.
782
00:35:02,569 --> 00:35:04,304
You say you drove the kids home?
783
00:35:04,337 --> 00:35:06,206
-We left, yeah.
-Okay.
784
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,241
What was the house like
when you got home that night?
785
00:35:08,274 --> 00:35:10,076
Well, she wasn't there.
786
00:35:10,110 --> 00:35:12,112
We thought she'd come back,
then it just kept going
787
00:35:12,145 --> 00:35:14,214
on and on and on.
788
00:35:14,247 --> 00:35:16,549
Ann Cliness says that night,
she was talking
789
00:35:16,583 --> 00:35:18,651
to Billie on the phone.
790
00:35:18,685 --> 00:35:21,221
When Billie says,
"They're coming home now."
791
00:35:21,254 --> 00:35:23,623
And that would've been
around 9:30.
792
00:35:23,656 --> 00:35:25,225
Doesn't sound right.
793
00:35:25,258 --> 00:35:27,694
The file says you get
home around 10:40.
794
00:35:27,727 --> 00:35:30,330
So there's an hour window,
hour gap in there.
795
00:35:30,363 --> 00:35:33,667
Well, like I say, I was
with the kids the whole time.
796
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:36,836
Edward, how come your mom
says that she saw you coming out
797
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:39,639
of the woods over by
her house that day
798
00:35:39,673 --> 00:35:41,908
with the shovel that very day.
799
00:35:41,941 --> 00:35:43,376
I don't believe you.
800
00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:45,512
That doesn't
even make sense to me.
801
00:35:45,545 --> 00:35:47,514
But I-I think you're
trying to trick me here too.
802
00:35:47,547 --> 00:35:49,449
I don't believe that.
803
00:35:49,482 --> 00:35:51,418
People noticed the smell
of Clorox coming from
804
00:35:51,451 --> 00:35:55,121
the basement in the days
after Billie went missing.
805
00:35:55,155 --> 00:35:57,290
I have no idea where
you're getting all this stuff.
806
00:35:57,323 --> 00:36:00,727
That week was when he cleaned
that house with the Clorox.
807
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,096
When I went over, I was like,
[sniff], and I smelled it.
808
00:36:03,129 --> 00:36:04,731
I'll never forget it.
809
00:36:04,764 --> 00:36:06,366
I don't know what
you're talking about.
810
00:36:06,399 --> 00:36:08,802
-Yes, you do.
-I didn't bury her anywhere.
811
00:36:08,835 --> 00:36:10,603
Okay?
812
00:36:10,637 --> 00:36:12,305
What did you do with her then?
813
00:36:12,339 --> 00:36:14,074
I didn't-- I haven't seen her.
814
00:36:14,107 --> 00:36:16,276
The last time I saw her
is when me and the kids
815
00:36:16,309 --> 00:36:17,610
left for the Ox Roast.
816
00:36:17,644 --> 00:36:19,679
Now, you wanna arrest me?
817
00:36:19,713 --> 00:36:21,448
I'll come right out,
and you can handcuff me
818
00:36:21,481 --> 00:36:23,416
and take me to jail and-- okay?
819
00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:25,952
-Ain't nobody believing you.
-No one.
820
00:36:26,052 --> 00:36:29,055
-Goodbye.
-Bye.
821
00:36:29,055 --> 00:36:32,625
If Ed killed Billie Lynn,
he's never gonna confess.
822
00:36:32,659 --> 00:36:35,895
But we've got enough
to field our circumstantial
823
00:36:35,929 --> 00:36:37,731
evidence case against him.
824
00:36:37,764 --> 00:36:39,466
This is fantastic.
825
00:36:39,499 --> 00:36:41,601
-Well, he saw you, not me.
-Yeah.
826
00:36:41,634 --> 00:36:43,603
I think.
That's why he opened the window.
827
00:36:43,636 --> 00:36:46,506
-He did. He saw a girl, not you.
-That's amazing.
828
00:36:46,539 --> 00:36:51,978
***
829
00:36:58,651 --> 00:37:00,787
What's the final analysis
with the dig Mike?
830
00:37:00,820 --> 00:37:03,189
They're done digging now,
and they didn't find anything.
831
00:37:03,223 --> 00:37:05,091
And they dug everywhere
you wanted them to.
832
00:37:05,125 --> 00:37:07,027
Yes, but I'm okay.
833
00:37:07,060 --> 00:37:10,597
After everything that we've
done, I--I'm very optimistic.
834
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:12,432
While we did not have any
luck with the dig,
835
00:37:12,465 --> 00:37:14,034
we did with our witnesses,
836
00:37:14,067 --> 00:37:15,635
and we are feeling good
about our case.
837
00:37:15,669 --> 00:37:17,170
-Hi Chief, how are you?
-How are you?
838
00:37:17,203 --> 00:37:19,139
-I'm good.
-Good to see you.
839
00:37:19,172 --> 00:37:21,474
Chief Thompson is gonna join
us to review what we learned.
840
00:37:21,508 --> 00:37:25,045
All right. So we put on
the board the possibility.
841
00:37:25,045 --> 00:37:28,748
-Did Billie Lynn run away?
-The children piece is huge.
842
00:37:28,782 --> 00:37:31,751
Everybody agrees she
would never leave her kids.
843
00:37:31,785 --> 00:37:33,520
She would never leave her kids.
844
00:37:33,553 --> 00:37:35,321
She would never do that.
845
00:37:35,355 --> 00:37:37,657
She was committed to leaving
him, but not that way.
846
00:37:37,691 --> 00:37:39,359
I think it should be
removed from board.
847
00:37:39,392 --> 00:37:40,960
Remove it.
Absolutely remove it.
848
00:37:41,061 --> 00:37:42,662
All right.
849
00:37:42,696 --> 00:37:44,831
Okay. So now Edward Groff.
850
00:37:44,864 --> 00:37:47,701
Start with the big picture
and all the ways
851
00:37:47,734 --> 00:37:50,136
you can prove that he was
abusive
852
00:37:50,170 --> 00:37:52,405
starting in high school
through how many witnesses?
853
00:37:52,439 --> 00:37:54,307
I mean, he actually
locked her in a locker.
854
00:37:54,341 --> 00:37:55,909
-Inside the locker?
-Yeah.
855
00:38:02,015 --> 00:38:03,650
He was being very abusive.
856
00:38:08,588 --> 00:38:10,156
What did Debra Creed
tell y'all?
857
00:38:10,190 --> 00:38:11,491
Choke hold.
858
00:38:11,524 --> 00:38:13,059
I remember some kind of a hold.
859
00:38:13,093 --> 00:38:15,028
He grabbed me up and
put me on the porch.
860
00:38:15,061 --> 00:38:16,830
You have a living,
breathing witness
861
00:38:16,863 --> 00:38:18,865
who can tell you manner and
means in what he does.
862
00:38:18,898 --> 00:38:20,333
-Sure.
-That's big.
863
00:38:20,367 --> 00:38:22,068
It is big. That's new.
That's big.
864
00:38:22,102 --> 00:38:24,637
And what does Janice
tell us about Ox Roast day?
865
00:38:24,671 --> 00:38:27,040
That Ed left and came back,
866
00:38:27,073 --> 00:38:28,808
and he was sweating
when he returned.
867
00:38:28,842 --> 00:38:31,044
My husband said, "Ed."
868
00:38:31,044 --> 00:38:33,213
He said, "Why are you
sweating like that?"
869
00:38:33,246 --> 00:38:35,515
Ed's mom sees her
son come out of the woods
870
00:38:35,548 --> 00:38:38,184
next to her house with a shovel,
saying he's gonna--
871
00:38:38,218 --> 00:38:39,853
looking for a tree to replant
872
00:38:39,886 --> 00:38:41,221
for a woman that's
divorcing him?
873
00:38:41,254 --> 00:38:43,223
And then the only unusual thing
874
00:38:43,256 --> 00:38:45,592
in that house in the days that
followed was what?
875
00:38:45,625 --> 00:38:48,261
Odor of bleach in the--
in the basement steps area.
876
00:38:48,294 --> 00:38:50,563
When I went over, I was like,
[sniffs], and I smelled it.
877
00:38:50,597 --> 00:38:52,532
-Where?
-Down the basement steps.
878
00:38:52,565 --> 00:38:54,401
It's right there. It hits you.
879
00:38:54,434 --> 00:38:57,103
When you
have all these witnesses,
880
00:38:57,137 --> 00:39:00,440
and you have his own
children and his own sister
881
00:39:00,473 --> 00:39:05,545
willing to say all that
they can say from 45 years ago?
882
00:39:05,578 --> 00:39:07,380
-Yeah.
-Oh my God, guys.
883
00:39:07,414 --> 00:39:10,016
It don't get better than
that as far as a witness world.
884
00:39:10,016 --> 00:39:13,119
The Hubbard Police Department
is prepared to present
885
00:39:13,153 --> 00:39:16,056
the circumstantial evidence
case that we have built
886
00:39:16,089 --> 00:39:18,658
against Ed Groff
to their prosecutor.
887
00:39:18,692 --> 00:39:20,493
I feel a lot better about
this case today
888
00:39:20,527 --> 00:39:23,029
than a couple weeks ago.
I mean, it's a great case.
889
00:39:23,063 --> 00:39:24,764
It's impressive what
you guys have done.
890
00:39:24,798 --> 00:39:27,934
Every prosecutor has
the same legal requirements,
891
00:39:28,034 --> 00:39:31,638
but maybe different expectations
before they'll accept a case,
892
00:39:31,671 --> 00:39:34,708
which makes
our job very challenging.
893
00:39:34,741 --> 00:39:38,478
But I firmly believe
that no body is no excuse
894
00:39:38,511 --> 00:39:40,747
to not take a case
and move forward.
895
00:39:40,780 --> 00:39:43,650
Hopefully,
this prosecutor agrees.
896
00:39:43,683 --> 00:39:45,752
Go. Y'all go to your meeting
and have good luck,
897
00:39:45,785 --> 00:39:48,621
and let us know as soon
as you get out how it goes.
898
00:39:48,655 --> 00:39:55,428
***
899
00:39:55,462 --> 00:40:01,034
***
900
00:40:01,067 --> 00:40:02,869
How long the meeting
last with your DA?
901
00:40:02,902 --> 00:40:05,271
One hour and 15 minutes.
902
00:40:05,305 --> 00:40:06,806
This is not gonna be
a fun conversation
903
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,142
-for Mark and Michelle.
-No.
904
00:40:09,175 --> 00:40:12,012
Are you thinking about
how you're gonna tell them?
905
00:40:12,045 --> 00:40:13,613
Just tell 'em.
906
00:40:13,646 --> 00:40:15,215
-Straight up.
-Yep.
907
00:40:15,248 --> 00:40:19,386
***
908
00:40:19,419 --> 00:40:22,222
***
909
00:40:22,255 --> 00:40:26,192
***
910
00:40:26,226 --> 00:40:27,861
-Hello.
-Hi, Kelly.
911
00:40:27,894 --> 00:40:29,329
-Hi.
-Hi.
912
00:40:29,362 --> 00:40:31,297
-Hi.
-Good to see you again.
913
00:40:31,331 --> 00:40:34,968
-Good to see you.
-Good to see you.
914
00:40:35,001 --> 00:40:39,806
It was a long, productive week,
and we spoke to a lot of people.
915
00:40:39,839 --> 00:40:42,542
And whenever your mom's
name was mentioned, it was,
916
00:40:42,575 --> 00:40:44,844
"Oh, she was such a sweet lady,
you know?"
917
00:40:44,878 --> 00:40:48,648
And every person we
spoke to said absolutely
918
00:40:48,682 --> 00:40:51,551
your mother would've
never have left without you.
919
00:40:51,584 --> 00:40:53,119
-Never. No doubt.
-No doubt.
920
00:40:53,153 --> 00:40:55,221
That's what I said
from the beginning.
921
00:40:55,255 --> 00:40:57,524
And we met with prosecutor
today going over
922
00:40:57,557 --> 00:40:59,559
what we have learned over
this course of the week.
923
00:40:59,592 --> 00:41:02,595
He feels at this time there's
just not enough to move forward.
924
00:41:02,629 --> 00:41:04,698
We don't have enough
probable cause to prove
925
00:41:04,731 --> 00:41:08,268
beyond a reasonable doubt
that-- that your dad's guilty.
926
00:41:08,301 --> 00:41:10,704
So the digging area
found no results?
927
00:41:10,737 --> 00:41:12,172
Correct.
928
00:41:12,205 --> 00:41:14,507
He said unless
we have like a body,
929
00:41:14,541 --> 00:41:17,077
-a confession or someone--
-And an admission.
930
00:41:17,077 --> 00:41:21,748
***
931
00:41:21,781 --> 00:41:24,084
We're so frustrated.
932
00:41:24,084 --> 00:41:25,518
Y'all, we really--
933
00:41:25,552 --> 00:41:27,487
-we really had a good week.
-I know.
934
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,589
Did you think there's a chance
that he could still--
935
00:41:29,622 --> 00:41:31,891
-that the--
-This is what I'll say.
936
00:41:31,925 --> 00:41:34,194
I'll say you have the
right to have a meeting too.
937
00:41:34,227 --> 00:41:36,663
He represents you.
You're a victim.
938
00:41:36,696 --> 00:41:38,998
That's his job.
939
00:41:39,099 --> 00:41:41,935
-I appreciate all you've done.
-Don't-- yeah, you're welcome.
940
00:41:41,968 --> 00:41:44,170
I think Mark and I have
felt all these years that,
941
00:41:44,204 --> 00:41:45,772
you know, you're kind of alone.
942
00:41:45,805 --> 00:41:49,109
You know,
you feel like, I don't know.
943
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:51,344
In listening to the
things that they've said,
944
00:41:51,378 --> 00:41:53,246
it's just gonna be a long road.
945
00:41:53,279 --> 00:41:57,617
It just frustrates me.
Just really frustrates me.
946
00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:59,552
You just gotta find
a way to deal with it
947
00:41:59,586 --> 00:42:03,757
and cope and move on.
948
00:42:03,790 --> 00:42:07,160
But you never
really move on from it.
949
00:42:07,193 --> 00:42:10,663
* Somewhere down
the line *
950
00:42:10,697 --> 00:42:13,733
* We lost ourselves *
951
00:42:13,767 --> 00:42:15,802
We went to your dad
last Saturday.
952
00:42:15,835 --> 00:42:17,671
He spoke to us from
his bedroom window.
953
00:42:17,704 --> 00:42:19,472
Did you go in the house?
Were you outside?
954
00:42:19,506 --> 00:42:21,141
He wouldn't
answer the front door.
955
00:42:21,174 --> 00:42:22,742
We made him mad.
He quit talking.
956
00:42:22,776 --> 00:42:24,144
Did he close the window?
957
00:42:24,177 --> 00:42:26,179
Yes.
Yes.
958
00:42:26,212 --> 00:42:28,448
Him closing on the window
on you just reminds me of
959
00:42:28,481 --> 00:42:30,583
the nights, like,
when I was laying in bed crying
960
00:42:30,617 --> 00:42:32,419
'cause I missed my mom,
and he closed the door.
961
00:42:32,452 --> 00:42:35,722
Like, that just was
the sentiment I got
962
00:42:35,755 --> 00:42:38,258
that just came over me.
963
00:42:38,291 --> 00:42:40,093
You know, it's like,
that's how I felt.
964
00:42:40,126 --> 00:42:42,595
I don't know what to say,
you know?
965
00:42:42,629 --> 00:42:48,268
There's no-- there's no words,
there's no equivalent for pain.
966
00:42:48,301 --> 00:42:52,105
You know, you carry on.
Which is what I've tried to do.
967
00:42:52,105 --> 00:42:55,575
But I want justice.
968
00:42:55,608 --> 00:42:57,477
And I'm not gonna quit either.
You know?
969
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:59,746
That's the promise I
made both of you to try to keep
970
00:42:59,779 --> 00:43:03,049
pushing this forward to-- to
bring what the prosecutor wants.
971
00:43:03,049 --> 00:43:04,818
We're gonna keep trying.
972
00:43:04,851 --> 00:43:07,220
Thank you for fighting
for us and giving it a shot.
973
00:43:07,253 --> 00:43:09,689
-I'm sorry.
-Don't be sorry.
974
00:43:09,723 --> 00:43:11,157
I'm not gonna stop fighting.
975
00:43:11,191 --> 00:43:13,126
-Well, he's not gonna give up.
-No.
976
00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:15,061
-It was nice to meet you.
-Thanks, Kelly.
977
00:43:15,095 --> 00:43:17,063
Thanks for everything
978
00:43:17,063 --> 00:43:19,966
We desperately wanted to bring
Mark and Michelle good news.
979
00:43:20,066 --> 00:43:24,070
And right now, we are just as
mad and frustrated as they are.
980
00:43:24,104 --> 00:43:27,841
I know that they've overcome
so much already in their lives
981
00:43:27,874 --> 00:43:31,344
and hopefully, they can
continue to fight and persevere.
982
00:43:31,378 --> 00:43:35,815
Billie Lynn would be
so proud of her babies.
983
00:43:35,849 --> 00:43:41,454
* Next thing we're broken,
woken up some place else *