1 00:00:14,114 --> 00:00:16,816 The men's bathroom. 2 00:00:20,153 --> 00:00:23,056 Body was lying face down, 3 00:00:24,824 --> 00:00:30,964 Cord that was tied around her throat, extended up, and 4 00:00:30,997 --> 00:00:33,700 then was secured on the brace. 5 00:00:33,733 --> 00:00:36,836 Inside the stall, a chair. 6 00:00:36,870 --> 00:00:40,807 Quite a bit of blood, with the source of the blood 7 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,378 being determined at two small holes in the throat. 8 00:00:49,883 --> 00:00:53,019 [choir singing] 9 00:00:53,053 --> 00:00:59,392 *** 10 00:01:09,903 --> 00:01:11,805 You ever heard of Creve Coeur? 11 00:01:11,838 --> 00:01:13,707 No. I know it's near St. Louis. 12 00:01:13,740 --> 00:01:16,743 My husband Sam went to Catholic medical school here, 13 00:01:16,776 --> 00:01:19,546 and it used to be a great, safe place to be. 14 00:01:19,579 --> 00:01:21,614 -It's a beautiful neighborhood. -It is. 15 00:01:22,716 --> 00:01:24,918 This case is 32 years old. 16 00:01:24,951 --> 00:01:27,087 -Unbelievable. -It happened in 1990 17 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,189 at a seminary school. 18 00:01:29,222 --> 00:01:31,524 There are victims, and then there are victims, 19 00:01:31,558 --> 00:01:32,625 and this is a victim. 20 00:01:32,659 --> 00:01:34,127 She came to America 21 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,895 to further her career in education 22 00:01:35,929 --> 00:01:37,097 and look what happens. 23 00:01:37,130 --> 00:01:40,000 Elizabeth Mackintosh was a 50-year-old 24 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:41,901 Scottish immigrant and a student 25 00:01:41,935 --> 00:01:45,105 at the Covenant Theological Presbyterian Seminary, 26 00:01:45,138 --> 00:01:47,741 where she also worked cleaning the chapel. 27 00:01:47,774 --> 00:01:51,711 On the early morning of March 26, 1990, 28 00:01:51,745 --> 00:01:54,614 that's what she was doing when she was brutally attacked, 29 00:01:54,647 --> 00:01:57,117 beaten, hung in the men's restroom, 30 00:01:57,150 --> 00:01:58,885 and stabbed to death. 31 00:01:58,918 --> 00:02:00,420 That is a brutal crime scene. 32 00:02:00,453 --> 00:02:02,622 I mean, that guy spent some time with her. 33 00:02:02,655 --> 00:02:05,258 Brings a chair into the men's stall, 34 00:02:05,291 --> 00:02:07,327 then he's got that loop wrapped around her neck. 35 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:08,528 I mean, this is like Hannibal Lecter. 36 00:02:08,561 --> 00:02:10,063 -Mm. -I hate to say it, 37 00:02:10,063 --> 00:02:11,698 but they've got a couple of venomous snakes 38 00:02:11,731 --> 00:02:13,566 right within that program itself there. 39 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,635 Even one witness says in the file, 40 00:02:15,669 --> 00:02:17,370 seminary theology school 41 00:02:17,404 --> 00:02:18,738 does tend to attract people 42 00:02:18,772 --> 00:02:20,607 that have lots of issues 43 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:23,076 or are trying to work out themselves psychologically. 44 00:02:23,076 --> 00:02:25,645 I think you're going to find out some ugly, dark secrets here. 45 00:02:25,679 --> 00:02:29,282 "Creve coeur" means "broken heart" in French, 46 00:02:29,315 --> 00:02:30,917 and in Elizabeth's case, 47 00:02:30,950 --> 00:02:33,186 that seems tragically appropriate. 48 00:02:33,219 --> 00:02:36,089 Her family and her community deserve 49 00:02:36,122 --> 00:02:38,458 to have Elizabeth's killer off the streets. 50 00:02:38,491 --> 00:02:41,494 There's a saying that God may save their soul, 51 00:02:41,528 --> 00:02:43,563 and God might save this killer's soul, 52 00:02:43,596 --> 00:02:45,498 but we can put them behind bars until then. 53 00:02:45,532 --> 00:02:47,133 God's on our side, too, this week, I'll tell you that. 54 00:02:47,167 --> 00:02:48,435 Yes, I like that. 55 00:02:48,468 --> 00:02:55,108 *** 56 00:02:55,141 --> 00:02:56,343 Hi. How are you? 57 00:02:56,376 --> 00:02:57,277 -Chief, Steve Spingola. -Jeff Hartman. 58 00:02:57,310 --> 00:02:58,345 Kelly. Nice to meet you, sir. 59 00:02:58,378 --> 00:03:00,880 [overlapping introductions] 60 00:03:00,914 --> 00:03:03,383 Well, Chief, we read your file, and 61 00:03:03,416 --> 00:03:05,952 -it's a hard case. -It is, yeah. 62 00:03:06,052 --> 00:03:09,289 I'm always trying to keep a positive attitude that 63 00:03:09,322 --> 00:03:12,459 eventually we'll find justice for Elizabeth and her family. 64 00:03:12,492 --> 00:03:14,194 We don't get a lot of victims like her, huh? 65 00:03:14,227 --> 00:03:15,462 -Yeah. -All right. 66 00:03:15,495 --> 00:03:17,163 -Thank you, sir. We will. -Keep me updated. Thanks. 67 00:03:17,197 --> 00:03:19,432 It's a 32-year-old case, so 68 00:03:19,466 --> 00:03:21,334 if we do have witnesses that remember things, 69 00:03:21,368 --> 00:03:23,169 it's coming to the last ditch effort 70 00:03:23,203 --> 00:03:25,071 for us to try to solve this case. 71 00:03:25,071 --> 00:03:26,573 So you were saying you were going to bring in 72 00:03:26,606 --> 00:03:28,208 -some other guys, too, huh? -Yes, ma'am. 73 00:03:28,241 --> 00:03:30,076 I have a couple retired captains 74 00:03:30,076 --> 00:03:32,078 that actually worked on this case 32 years ago. 75 00:03:32,078 --> 00:03:33,480 Great, great. Okay. 76 00:03:33,513 --> 00:03:34,914 It's going to be difficult. 77 00:03:34,948 --> 00:03:37,083 We don't have any hard physical evidence. 78 00:03:37,083 --> 00:03:39,586 We don't have eyewitnesses, we don't have any forensics. 79 00:03:39,619 --> 00:03:40,720 -Hi, fellas. -Hello. 80 00:03:40,754 --> 00:03:42,322 Captain Hodak, this is Kelly and Steve. 81 00:03:42,355 --> 00:03:43,556 -How are you? -Okay. 82 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:45,225 -Nice to meet you. -You, too. Thank you. 83 00:03:45,258 --> 00:03:46,393 So excited to see y'all. 84 00:03:46,426 --> 00:03:47,560 It's going to be based on 85 00:03:47,594 --> 00:03:48,795 circumstantial evidence 86 00:03:48,828 --> 00:03:50,296 and so, just having somebody 87 00:03:50,330 --> 00:03:52,465 with Kelly and-- and Steve's experience-- 88 00:03:52,499 --> 00:03:55,802 specifically Kelly's--working with cold case homicides, 89 00:03:55,835 --> 00:03:57,003 we're really excited that they 90 00:03:57,103 --> 00:03:58,872 can help us out with this investigation. 91 00:03:58,905 --> 00:04:00,206 Let's start off with putting 92 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,375 Elizabeth's pictures up here. 93 00:04:02,409 --> 00:04:04,711 Elizabeth Mackintosh was 50 years old. 94 00:04:04,744 --> 00:04:06,880 She's of Scottish descent. 95 00:04:06,913 --> 00:04:09,349 Her father was a very high profile 96 00:04:09,382 --> 00:04:12,185 Presbyterian clergy person in the United Kingdom. 97 00:04:12,218 --> 00:04:16,322 This homicide made big headlines over there, too. 98 00:04:16,356 --> 00:04:19,926 Elizabeth was very friendly, well spoken, opinionated. 99 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:21,494 She was one not to shy away 100 00:04:21,528 --> 00:04:23,530 from confrontation, it sounded like. 101 00:04:23,563 --> 00:04:25,532 Never been married, no kids, 102 00:04:25,565 --> 00:04:27,934 no love interest going on at all. 103 00:04:27,967 --> 00:04:29,769 So here's Elizabeth as a nurse. 104 00:04:29,803 --> 00:04:31,938 That is Elizabeth on the bottom right. 105 00:04:31,971 --> 00:04:35,775 After a career in nursing for 11 1/2 years in England, 106 00:04:35,809 --> 00:04:37,444 she had come to the States 107 00:04:37,477 --> 00:04:40,146 to be a student at the Covenant Theological Seminary. 108 00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:42,949 She had intentions to get a degree in counseling 109 00:04:42,982 --> 00:04:46,186 and possibly get her seminary license. 110 00:04:46,219 --> 00:04:48,955 Elizabeth went to school there, studying, 111 00:04:48,988 --> 00:04:50,857 but she also had a job. 112 00:04:50,890 --> 00:04:52,592 She helped to clean up the chapel. 113 00:04:52,625 --> 00:04:55,962 She would usually wake up at 4:00 in the morning 114 00:04:55,995 --> 00:04:57,897 and then start her cleaning duties 115 00:04:57,931 --> 00:05:01,401 -anywhere between 4:25, 4:30. -Okay. 116 00:05:01,434 --> 00:05:05,772 March 26, 1990, at about 7:20 in the morning, 117 00:05:05,805 --> 00:05:08,241 Creve Coeur police officers responded to the report 118 00:05:08,274 --> 00:05:11,911 of a suicide in the men's restroom at the Rayburn Chapel. 119 00:05:14,047 --> 00:05:16,249 Originally it was believed to be a hanging 120 00:05:16,282 --> 00:05:19,085 'cause she had a ligature around her neck. 121 00:05:19,119 --> 00:05:20,787 But there was blood all over the floor, 122 00:05:20,820 --> 00:05:22,922 so the officers pretty quickly determined 123 00:05:22,956 --> 00:05:24,657 that it wasn't a suicide. 124 00:05:24,691 --> 00:05:27,560 She had two puncture wounds that were in her neck 125 00:05:27,594 --> 00:05:29,496 and defensive wounds to her hands, 126 00:05:29,529 --> 00:05:31,798 contusions and bruises all over her body. 127 00:05:31,831 --> 00:05:34,200 There was a struggle that originally took place 128 00:05:34,234 --> 00:05:36,670 in an adjacent room to the bathroom. 129 00:05:36,703 --> 00:05:39,706 There was hair on the floor, backing of an earring. 130 00:05:39,739 --> 00:05:42,442 The cord that was around her neck had 131 00:05:42,475 --> 00:05:45,378 been cut from a VCR from that room. 132 00:05:45,412 --> 00:05:47,347 We believe that she was 133 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:49,582 possibly drug from that room, 134 00:05:49,616 --> 00:05:51,084 brought into the bathroom. 135 00:05:51,084 --> 00:05:54,254 The cord was tied on a bracket 136 00:05:54,287 --> 00:05:56,089 and then it was placed around her neck. 137 00:05:56,122 --> 00:05:58,758 She tried to get up and get out and then 138 00:05:58,792 --> 00:06:03,029 she pushed through the door, fell onto the floor. 139 00:06:03,029 --> 00:06:06,299 The ligature came tight around her neck 140 00:06:06,332 --> 00:06:08,368 and the suspect stabbed her in the neck. 141 00:06:08,401 --> 00:06:09,569 This woman's going through hell. 142 00:06:09,602 --> 00:06:12,038 This is one of the most savage and 143 00:06:12,072 --> 00:06:15,475 messy and painful homicides I've ever heard of. 144 00:06:15,508 --> 00:06:19,512 For such a sweet lady who devoted her life to God, 145 00:06:19,546 --> 00:06:23,316 her last minutes on this earth were hell. 146 00:06:23,350 --> 00:06:25,051 No signs of a sexual assault. 147 00:06:25,051 --> 00:06:27,887 No robbery or burglary, because nothing was missing. 148 00:06:27,921 --> 00:06:29,689 Right. This was a heat-of-passion thing. 149 00:06:29,723 --> 00:06:31,524 It was not something that was premeditated. 150 00:06:31,558 --> 00:06:34,661 My opinion was that the perpetrator tried 151 00:06:34,694 --> 00:06:36,429 to make it look like it was going to be a suicide. 152 00:06:36,463 --> 00:06:38,598 The cord, the jeans, and the shirt, 153 00:06:38,631 --> 00:06:40,367 we've sent off to DNA tests 154 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,402 -hoping for a miracle, right? -Right. 155 00:06:42,435 --> 00:06:44,571 -Yes, ma'am. -Elizabeth was last seen alive 156 00:06:44,604 --> 00:06:48,375 by a student leaving the chapel at about 4:50 a.m. 157 00:06:48,408 --> 00:06:50,710 The next students arrived at 6:20 a.m. 158 00:06:50,744 --> 00:06:52,879 and did not hear any signs of a struggle. 159 00:06:52,912 --> 00:06:55,348 With the extreme violence of Elizabeth's murder, 160 00:06:55,382 --> 00:06:56,649 it seems whoever killed her 161 00:06:56,683 --> 00:06:58,918 must have committed that crime in that window, 162 00:06:58,952 --> 00:07:00,387 and only a handful of people 163 00:07:00,420 --> 00:07:02,022 would have known she would have been there. 164 00:07:02,055 --> 00:07:05,025 Okay, so this is Michael Johnson. 165 00:07:05,058 --> 00:07:07,861 Michael Johnson is another seminary student, 166 00:07:07,894 --> 00:07:11,031 and he was actually Elizabeth Mackintosh's direct supervisor. 167 00:07:11,031 --> 00:07:13,099 And they didn't get along very well, right? 168 00:07:13,133 --> 00:07:15,201 Elizabeth and Michael Johnson 169 00:07:15,235 --> 00:07:17,904 had disagreements over cleaning supplies. 170 00:07:17,937 --> 00:07:21,174 Elizabeth requested supplies through Michael. 171 00:07:21,207 --> 00:07:22,842 He did not get those supplies, 172 00:07:22,876 --> 00:07:25,945 so she went over his head and spoke to his boss. 173 00:07:26,046 --> 00:07:28,248 We believe this upset him, and he was probably 174 00:07:28,281 --> 00:07:29,783 trying to confront her 175 00:07:29,816 --> 00:07:31,284 that particular Monday morning. 176 00:07:31,317 --> 00:07:33,386 They asked him if he had been in the chapel, 177 00:07:33,420 --> 00:07:34,621 and he said he was. 178 00:07:34,654 --> 00:07:36,456 He said he was looking for Elizabeth. 179 00:07:36,489 --> 00:07:38,591 He said, "I didn't look in the men's bathroom. 180 00:07:38,625 --> 00:07:41,461 "Elizabeth is sensitive about people walking in on her 181 00:07:41,494 --> 00:07:43,430 while she's cleaning the men's bathroom." 182 00:07:43,463 --> 00:07:45,799 Michael told police he went looking for Elizabeth 183 00:07:45,832 --> 00:07:47,167 around 7:10 a.m. 184 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,302 He didn't find her and left, 185 00:07:49,336 --> 00:07:51,805 which is after the time we believe she was killed. 186 00:07:51,838 --> 00:07:53,073 But he told another witness 187 00:07:53,106 --> 00:07:54,641 he had an appointment to meet Elizabeth 188 00:07:54,674 --> 00:07:57,243 early in the morning at about 6:30 a.m. 189 00:07:57,277 --> 00:07:59,279 So why the discrepancy in his story? 190 00:07:59,312 --> 00:08:01,214 He's had a temper all his life. 191 00:08:01,247 --> 00:08:03,583 He almost broke somebody's nose one time. 192 00:08:03,616 --> 00:08:06,086 Abusive to the wife and the kids? 193 00:08:06,119 --> 00:08:08,355 Yeah. He would fly off the handle, 194 00:08:08,388 --> 00:08:11,291 and the kids would run out and stay with a neighbor. 195 00:08:11,324 --> 00:08:14,361 Okay, everybody pull out their notes for Eugene Smith. 196 00:08:14,394 --> 00:08:16,129 Eugene Smith is not still alive? 197 00:08:16,162 --> 00:08:17,197 -Correct. -He is dead, yes. 198 00:08:17,230 --> 00:08:19,666 Okay. How did Mr. Eugene Smith 199 00:08:19,699 --> 00:08:21,067 first get on y'all's radar? 200 00:08:21,101 --> 00:08:23,937 We started checking students 201 00:08:24,037 --> 00:08:25,672 -that lived in the dormitory... -Correct. 202 00:08:25,705 --> 00:08:27,507 ...and came up with him because he had a record. 203 00:08:27,540 --> 00:08:32,512 He was arrested for attempted rape with a knife in 1987. 204 00:08:32,545 --> 00:08:33,680 And was that a conviction or an arrest? 205 00:08:33,713 --> 00:08:36,049 No, he was acquitted at trial. 206 00:08:36,049 --> 00:08:40,320 Then he was a suspect in a second rape in 1987 again. 207 00:08:40,353 --> 00:08:42,822 And this guy is living in the-- 208 00:08:42,856 --> 00:08:44,057 Living in the dorms. 209 00:08:44,057 --> 00:08:46,059 There were people in the dorms that were 210 00:08:46,059 --> 00:08:48,061 just kind of there, kind of flopping, 211 00:08:48,094 --> 00:08:51,331 and it was a free ride from the seminary. 212 00:08:51,364 --> 00:08:54,200 After he left the seminary, he was arrested and convicted 213 00:08:54,234 --> 00:08:56,069 of armed robbery with a knife. 214 00:08:56,102 --> 00:08:58,171 At least two, maybe even three 215 00:08:58,204 --> 00:09:01,007 violent felony offenses committed with a knife. 216 00:09:01,041 --> 00:09:02,175 -Mm-hmm. -Lovely. 217 00:09:03,176 --> 00:09:05,679 So next up, you want to do George Johnston. 218 00:09:05,712 --> 00:09:09,015 -He was a librarian on campus. -Looks like a librarian. 219 00:09:09,015 --> 00:09:12,118 Employed at the seminary since 1978. 220 00:09:12,152 --> 00:09:15,455 And he's up on our board how and why? 221 00:09:15,488 --> 00:09:17,791 The seminary fired him right after the murder. 222 00:09:17,824 --> 00:09:19,225 They went back and they did a security audit. 223 00:09:19,259 --> 00:09:22,562 They found that incident in 1971. 224 00:09:22,595 --> 00:09:26,900 So the security guard walks into some bathroom--St. John's 225 00:09:26,933 --> 00:09:28,201 -Mercy Hospital. -This is that hospital thing? 226 00:09:28,234 --> 00:09:29,803 Right across the street from the seminary. 227 00:09:29,836 --> 00:09:31,571 So he was dressed as a woman, 228 00:09:31,604 --> 00:09:33,373 and he had some type of a metal car part... 229 00:09:33,406 --> 00:09:36,843 In order to assault a woman and fondle her "gentitals." 230 00:09:36,876 --> 00:09:38,745 -Knock a woman out... -In a bathroom 231 00:09:38,778 --> 00:09:41,481 In a bathroom, and fondle their vagina. 232 00:09:42,449 --> 00:09:45,051 So he was stopped before committing the crime. 233 00:09:45,085 --> 00:09:47,887 -Right. -Investigators found no evidence 234 00:09:47,921 --> 00:09:49,622 of a sexual assault, 235 00:09:49,656 --> 00:09:52,525 but Elizabeth had over 30 different bruises 236 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,461 and abrasions all over her body. 237 00:09:54,494 --> 00:09:57,530 Is it possible that she fought back so hard 238 00:09:57,564 --> 00:10:01,067 that a sexual predator just gave up and killed her? 239 00:10:01,101 --> 00:10:03,870 All right. Next up, David Winecoff. 240 00:10:03,903 --> 00:10:06,106 He was the victim's pastor. 241 00:10:06,139 --> 00:10:08,808 Yeah, he had a church about 10 miles away. 242 00:10:08,842 --> 00:10:11,177 So the political ideology at the seminary 243 00:10:11,211 --> 00:10:12,946 at this time was in turmoil. 244 00:10:12,979 --> 00:10:17,183 There was some differences in their--in their sect beliefs. 245 00:10:17,217 --> 00:10:18,885 Elizabeth had actually got accepted 246 00:10:18,918 --> 00:10:21,221 to a more liberal school in Florida, 247 00:10:21,254 --> 00:10:24,424 and Winecoff was believed to be the more conservative side 248 00:10:24,457 --> 00:10:26,860 and there was a lot of contention 249 00:10:26,893 --> 00:10:30,230 there at the seminary about those religious differences. 250 00:10:30,263 --> 00:10:31,464 The night before her death, 251 00:10:31,498 --> 00:10:33,299 she had attended Sunday services. 252 00:10:33,333 --> 00:10:35,568 So it was some concern when she showed him 253 00:10:35,602 --> 00:10:37,737 that acceptance letter, if they were actually 254 00:10:37,771 --> 00:10:39,639 arguing or if she was flaunting this letter 255 00:10:39,673 --> 00:10:42,676 as a way to show people she was happy to be leaving. 256 00:10:42,709 --> 00:10:44,077 'Cause that would be the genesis 257 00:10:44,110 --> 00:10:45,645 of why he would be mad enough to want to kill her. 258 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,313 -Correct. -His fingerprint's found 259 00:10:47,347 --> 00:10:48,948 -on that letter in the stall. -Correct. 260 00:10:48,982 --> 00:10:53,753 Elizabeth was seen chatting with David Winecoff on Sunday night, 261 00:10:53,787 --> 00:10:56,790 which could explain his fingerprints on that. 262 00:10:56,823 --> 00:10:59,526 But that wasn't the only reason he's a suspect. 263 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,361 He's deceased why? 264 00:11:01,394 --> 00:11:03,530 -Fell off a mountain. -A climbing accident. 265 00:11:03,563 --> 00:11:05,365 His rope failed or the knot failed 266 00:11:05,398 --> 00:11:07,067 that he had tied, and then he fell. 267 00:11:07,067 --> 00:11:08,668 That was in '93. 268 00:11:08,702 --> 00:11:10,437 They thought he'd committed suicide 269 00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:13,373 because he was feeling guilty over being a murderer. 270 00:11:13,406 --> 00:11:17,644 We have Elizabeth's boss, a violent criminal, 271 00:11:17,677 --> 00:11:19,446 a wannabe predator, 272 00:11:19,479 --> 00:11:22,482 and a man with his prints at the scene. 273 00:11:22,515 --> 00:11:25,185 But after 30 years, our biggest challenge might be 274 00:11:25,218 --> 00:11:27,787 finding witnesses who are still around 275 00:11:27,821 --> 00:11:30,090 and have a good memory from that day. 276 00:11:30,123 --> 00:11:33,093 [choir music resumes] 277 00:11:33,126 --> 00:11:39,632 *** 278 00:11:39,666 --> 00:11:40,934 We're going to go see 279 00:11:40,967 --> 00:11:42,602 Elizabeth's younger sister Helen. 280 00:11:42,635 --> 00:11:45,839 Yes. She's just as nice as can be and helpful 281 00:11:45,872 --> 00:11:48,408 and even adds more reason why we want 282 00:11:48,441 --> 00:11:50,343 to get her some help and resolution for this. 283 00:11:50,377 --> 00:11:53,680 Sadly, with Elizabeth's case being this old, 284 00:11:53,713 --> 00:11:56,683 her poor parents and her brother passed away 285 00:11:56,716 --> 00:12:00,353 never being able to get any kind of answers or justice. 286 00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:01,821 -Hi. -Hello. 287 00:12:01,855 --> 00:12:03,590 -Is it Helen? I'm Doug. -I'm Helen, yes. 288 00:12:03,623 --> 00:12:06,159 Today we're meeting with her younger sister Helen, 289 00:12:06,192 --> 00:12:09,763 who named one of her own daughters after Elizabeth. 290 00:12:09,796 --> 00:12:11,664 So what was she like as a little girl? 291 00:12:11,698 --> 00:12:13,700 She was a very loving sister 292 00:12:13,733 --> 00:12:15,235 to me, though, when I was little. 293 00:12:15,268 --> 00:12:16,903 And then as the years went by 294 00:12:16,936 --> 00:12:18,571 and Forrest and I got married, 295 00:12:18,605 --> 00:12:20,306 and as my children were born, 296 00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:23,843 she celebrated that and came, and they loved it. 297 00:12:23,877 --> 00:12:25,078 She was the fun aunt, 298 00:12:25,078 --> 00:12:29,849 so she was very bright and creative. 299 00:12:29,883 --> 00:12:32,686 As a very young nurse in her early 20s, 300 00:12:32,719 --> 00:12:35,822 she went to Peru and went up into the Andes 301 00:12:35,855 --> 00:12:38,692 to a mining community and worked there as a nurse. 302 00:12:38,725 --> 00:12:41,761 And, Helen, when this happened in 1990, 303 00:12:41,795 --> 00:12:43,830 how did all this affect your mom and dad? 304 00:12:43,863 --> 00:12:47,200 Oh, well, it was unspeakable. 305 00:12:47,233 --> 00:12:50,270 My parents, they leaned on their faith. 306 00:12:50,303 --> 00:12:51,571 They leaned on each other, 307 00:12:51,604 --> 00:12:54,808 and the family in Scotland was very supportive. 308 00:12:54,841 --> 00:12:56,876 But of course, it was a... 309 00:12:56,910 --> 00:12:59,112 it was an unspeakable blow to them. 310 00:12:59,112 --> 00:13:03,583 It was an unnatural, horrible death. 311 00:13:03,616 --> 00:13:05,785 And so, um... 312 00:13:05,819 --> 00:13:11,324 *** 313 00:13:11,358 --> 00:13:15,328 It caused the people who loved her a great deal of pain. 314 00:13:19,566 --> 00:13:24,070 My dear parents, their suffering was intense, 315 00:13:24,104 --> 00:13:27,140 and they leant on their faith greatly, 316 00:13:28,475 --> 00:13:31,111 and the promise... 317 00:13:31,144 --> 00:13:34,647 that in all things, God was with them, 318 00:13:34,681 --> 00:13:36,383 and would have been with Elizabeth, 319 00:13:36,416 --> 00:13:37,650 and Elizabeth would have known that. 320 00:13:37,684 --> 00:13:39,819 Even in the midst of the horror, 321 00:13:39,853 --> 00:13:41,287 she would have had that faith. 322 00:13:41,321 --> 00:13:43,156 She was of such strong faith. 323 00:13:44,691 --> 00:13:47,594 But still, it's incredibly unfair. 324 00:13:47,627 --> 00:13:51,097 She was a wonderful, wonderful person 325 00:13:51,131 --> 00:13:52,532 -and we miss her terribly. 326 00:13:52,565 --> 00:13:54,768 Well, if it's okay with y'all, we're going to get started 327 00:13:54,801 --> 00:13:56,670 trying to talk to all these people 328 00:13:56,703 --> 00:13:57,837 -and see how far we can get. -Please. 329 00:13:57,871 --> 00:14:00,040 -Pray for us, okay? -Yes. 330 00:14:07,814 --> 00:14:11,084 [choir singing] 331 00:14:11,117 --> 00:14:17,057 *** 332 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,362 -Good to see you again, man. -[chuckles] 333 00:14:22,395 --> 00:14:23,296 Did y'all meet Chris? 334 00:14:23,329 --> 00:14:25,098 -We sure did. -Yep, yep. 335 00:14:25,131 --> 00:14:27,734 Today we've flown in our reconstruction expert 336 00:14:27,767 --> 00:14:29,436 to see if he can try and help us 337 00:14:29,469 --> 00:14:32,772 re-examine and maybe reenact Elizabeth's murder. 338 00:14:32,806 --> 00:14:36,142 The seminary has granted us access to the chapel 339 00:14:36,176 --> 00:14:38,445 and to the rooms where her murder happened. 340 00:14:39,412 --> 00:14:41,915 This is the original chapel to the campus. 341 00:14:41,948 --> 00:14:44,117 So we're really talking about, then, this level, 342 00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:46,086 which is the ground level and then the basement level 343 00:14:46,086 --> 00:14:47,253 -where everything happens. -Right, right. 344 00:14:47,287 --> 00:14:48,555 -Okay. -All right. 345 00:14:48,588 --> 00:14:50,290 We can head on downstairs. 346 00:14:50,323 --> 00:14:52,659 Being here in this house of God, 347 00:14:52,692 --> 00:14:55,328 in this place of worship and faith, 348 00:14:55,362 --> 00:14:57,597 it's hard to imagine someone 349 00:14:57,630 --> 00:15:00,533 from this community committing this crime. 350 00:15:00,567 --> 00:15:03,470 A chapel is the last place where you would think 351 00:15:03,503 --> 00:15:05,805 a savage murder like this could ever happen. 352 00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:08,141 So this is lecture room three, 353 00:15:08,174 --> 00:15:10,343 and we think that she was assaulted in here. 354 00:15:10,377 --> 00:15:12,545 Oh, it's way bigger than I thought. 355 00:15:12,579 --> 00:15:15,048 Maybe an argument started in this particular room 356 00:15:15,048 --> 00:15:17,384 and then carried over into the men's bathroom. 357 00:15:17,417 --> 00:15:20,387 We had signs of a struggle. Elizabeth's earring, 358 00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:22,555 some clumps of her hair that were pulled out. 359 00:15:22,589 --> 00:15:24,624 The audio/visual cart was in here, 360 00:15:24,657 --> 00:15:27,527 so that was what happened-- The electrical cord. 361 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,963 The evidence suggests that Elizabeth was cleaning this room 362 00:15:30,063 --> 00:15:31,631 when she was confronted. 363 00:15:31,664 --> 00:15:32,966 And while we don't know if Elizabeth 364 00:15:33,066 --> 00:15:34,267 and her attacker initially got 365 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,936 into a verbal confrontation, that seems likely. 366 00:15:36,970 --> 00:15:40,507 And so, you and I are talking. I'm going to come towards you. 367 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:42,375 If I hit you as hard as I can, 368 00:15:42,409 --> 00:15:45,078 I think I can knock you out, down to the ground. 369 00:15:45,078 --> 00:15:47,113 Everybody feels like she's down on the ground at this time. 370 00:15:47,147 --> 00:15:49,149 -Yeah. -She's downdown. 371 00:15:49,182 --> 00:15:50,483 Laying down. She's not sitting up. 372 00:15:50,517 --> 00:15:52,085 -No. -At this point, 373 00:15:52,085 --> 00:15:54,654 it seems likely that Elizabeth was incapacitated 374 00:15:54,688 --> 00:15:56,856 and possibly unconscious. 375 00:15:56,890 --> 00:15:58,191 And while we don't know how the struggle 376 00:15:58,224 --> 00:15:59,693 actually played out, 377 00:15:59,726 --> 00:16:01,161 this is likely when the assailant 378 00:16:01,194 --> 00:16:02,495 grabbed her by the hair and forced her 379 00:16:02,529 --> 00:16:05,198 into the men's restroom and cut off the VCR cord 380 00:16:05,231 --> 00:16:06,499 to use as a ligature. 381 00:16:06,533 --> 00:16:08,568 Now I grab you by your hair 382 00:16:08,601 --> 00:16:11,338 and I lead you from here into the bathroom 383 00:16:11,371 --> 00:16:13,273 because the hair is pulled out of her head, right? 384 00:16:13,306 --> 00:16:14,874 I agree. He's got her by the hair. 385 00:16:14,908 --> 00:16:17,677 He's dragging her around, grabbing the scissors and stuff 386 00:16:17,711 --> 00:16:19,045 so she doesn't get out of here, because he's not going 387 00:16:19,079 --> 00:16:20,680 to leave her laying here. 388 00:16:20,714 --> 00:16:21,881 So we're going to go in the bathroom, 389 00:16:21,915 --> 00:16:23,516 Okay, so I'm gonna move you this way. 390 00:16:23,550 --> 00:16:25,852 And at this point, I push you into the stall. 391 00:16:25,885 --> 00:16:28,321 At some point, she's going to fight back some, 392 00:16:28,355 --> 00:16:30,156 because this is where we see defensive wounds. 393 00:16:30,190 --> 00:16:32,392 Another struggle in the stall could help explain 394 00:16:32,425 --> 00:16:35,495 why Elizabeth had over 30 wounds to her head and body, 395 00:16:35,528 --> 00:16:37,831 as Elizabeth was struggling for her life. 396 00:16:37,864 --> 00:16:40,834 Now, I slam you so hard down 397 00:16:40,867 --> 00:16:43,937 that your head knocks that off of that. 398 00:16:43,970 --> 00:16:45,605 And now you fall to the ground. 399 00:16:45,638 --> 00:16:48,074 If you knocked that toilet dispenser off there, 400 00:16:48,074 --> 00:16:50,777 I think you're out for several minutes, right? 401 00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:52,345 -It would be a hard hit. -Because--oh, my gosh. 402 00:16:52,379 --> 00:16:54,247 -Got that big horizontal bruise. -Totally. 403 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,182 And then while you're down on the ground, 404 00:16:56,216 --> 00:16:57,717 I go and get the chair. 405 00:16:57,751 --> 00:16:59,719 Now I'm gonna have to sit you up in the chair. 406 00:16:59,753 --> 00:17:00,787 Okay. 407 00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:02,255 And now, at this point, 408 00:17:02,288 --> 00:17:04,157 I'm kind of pulling this over. 409 00:17:04,190 --> 00:17:06,426 It's unclear if the killer's true intent was 410 00:17:06,459 --> 00:17:09,329 to try to stage this death as a suicide, 411 00:17:09,362 --> 00:17:11,297 but he was clearly trying to strangle her to death. 412 00:17:11,331 --> 00:17:13,066 He may have been content 413 00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:15,568 to strangle her with that, but I think it wasn't working. 414 00:17:15,602 --> 00:17:17,504 And she doesn't die fast. 415 00:17:17,537 --> 00:17:19,105 Doesn't die, so he comes back in. 416 00:17:19,139 --> 00:17:21,474 So the scissors were used to stab her. 417 00:17:21,508 --> 00:17:23,643 The killer possibly grabbed a knife 418 00:17:23,677 --> 00:17:26,046 or other sharp instrument from the classroom 419 00:17:26,046 --> 00:17:28,882 or still had it in his hand from cutting the cord. 420 00:17:28,915 --> 00:17:30,550 But at this point, he realized he would have to 421 00:17:30,583 --> 00:17:32,152 stab Elizabeth to kill her. 422 00:17:32,185 --> 00:17:36,523 And now I stab you twice. I just go once up, 423 00:17:37,490 --> 00:17:40,460 And then once down, 424 00:17:40,493 --> 00:17:42,162 And then I'm going to get out of the way, 425 00:17:42,195 --> 00:17:45,098 because as soon as I stab her, I'm just going to back out. 426 00:17:45,131 --> 00:17:47,467 Where are the killer's footprints in blood, too? 427 00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:49,669 She's not bleeding, not until he stabs her 428 00:17:49,703 --> 00:17:51,071 in the neck and then backs out. 429 00:17:51,104 --> 00:17:52,839 How does she get forward, then? 'Cause when she's found, 430 00:17:52,872 --> 00:17:53,940 she's forward like this. 431 00:17:53,973 --> 00:17:55,175 Because when she falls off, 432 00:17:55,208 --> 00:17:56,843 she's two inches off the ground. 433 00:17:56,876 --> 00:17:58,244 You mean the rope doesn't let her hit the ground? 434 00:17:58,278 --> 00:17:59,846 -MEN: Right. Yeah. -It catches her? 435 00:17:59,879 --> 00:18:01,014 That's why she strangles to death? 436 00:18:01,014 --> 00:18:01,881 That's why she strangles to death. 437 00:18:01,915 --> 00:18:03,049 So she's kind of like... 438 00:18:03,083 --> 00:18:05,185 Keep going. Like right there. 439 00:18:05,218 --> 00:18:07,487 So that's why the cause of death is strangulation. 440 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:08,888 Mm-hmm. 441 00:18:08,922 --> 00:18:12,325 My God, the torture this poor woman endured. 442 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,029 And can you even imagine how helpless she felt 443 00:18:16,062 --> 00:18:18,365 in the very last minutes of her life? 444 00:18:18,398 --> 00:18:20,734 This poor woman, slaughtered 445 00:18:20,767 --> 00:18:24,037 in the bathroom of a place where she worshipped, 446 00:18:24,037 --> 00:18:27,073 where she went every single day for comfort. 447 00:18:27,107 --> 00:18:31,111 I can't imagine a more horrible place and way to die. 448 00:18:31,144 --> 00:18:33,546 -Talk about the letter. -The letter was found over here 449 00:18:33,580 --> 00:18:36,349 in the back part of the stall and it had a fingerprint match 450 00:18:36,383 --> 00:18:38,118 that came back to David Winecoff. 451 00:18:38,151 --> 00:18:39,819 You know, there were some of Elizabeth's friends 452 00:18:39,853 --> 00:18:42,055 that saw her at a worship service 453 00:18:42,055 --> 00:18:43,823 the night before, holding that letter. 454 00:18:43,857 --> 00:18:45,492 That letter was an acceptance. 455 00:18:45,525 --> 00:18:47,660 She was showing it to different people, like a graduation. 456 00:18:47,694 --> 00:18:49,195 You know what I'm saying? So people are reading it. 457 00:18:49,229 --> 00:18:50,730 She also could have just had it in her back pocket 458 00:18:50,764 --> 00:18:51,865 -and it fell out. -Right. It just fell out. 459 00:18:51,898 --> 00:18:53,633 Does anybody see any sexual element 460 00:18:53,667 --> 00:18:55,335 -to any of this? -No. 461 00:18:55,368 --> 00:18:56,803 She was fully clothed. 462 00:18:56,836 --> 00:18:58,872 No indication that her clothes were torn. 463 00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:00,407 -This isn't a sexual fantasy. -Right. 464 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:01,574 I don't think he's getting off to it. 465 00:19:01,608 --> 00:19:02,876 I think he wants to make sure she's dead. 466 00:19:02,909 --> 00:19:04,678 -Yeah. -And she's taking too long. 467 00:19:04,711 --> 00:19:06,046 To get a woman who at some point 468 00:19:06,079 --> 00:19:08,181 is going to fight back some, 469 00:19:08,214 --> 00:19:09,916 and you got to get that chair in here. 470 00:19:10,016 --> 00:19:11,618 -Mm-hmm. -And you gotta tie this up. 471 00:19:11,651 --> 00:19:13,219 How long is all that going to take? 472 00:19:13,253 --> 00:19:14,387 I'd say no more than ten, for sure. 473 00:19:14,421 --> 00:19:16,056 -No more than ten. -In this room. 474 00:19:16,089 --> 00:19:17,757 -This room. -Plus the three over there. 475 00:19:17,791 --> 00:19:19,793 We're talking about 13, 15 minutes. 476 00:19:19,826 --> 00:19:21,528 And he just walks back out. 477 00:19:21,561 --> 00:19:23,630 I've worked a lot of sexual assault cases, 478 00:19:23,663 --> 00:19:25,865 and if you think about the fact that the attacker 479 00:19:25,899 --> 00:19:27,901 spent about 13 minutes with Elizabeth alone 480 00:19:27,934 --> 00:19:29,269 and didn't attempt a rape 481 00:19:29,302 --> 00:19:32,405 like the one our suspect Eugene Smith was arrested for, 482 00:19:32,439 --> 00:19:33,740 or a molestation 483 00:19:33,773 --> 00:19:36,543 like the one our suspect George Johnson fantasized about, 484 00:19:36,576 --> 00:19:38,345 I think we can pretty much assume 485 00:19:38,378 --> 00:19:39,879 that these are not our guys. 486 00:19:39,913 --> 00:19:41,915 This was personal. This was rage. 487 00:19:50,657 --> 00:19:53,226 *** 488 00:19:53,259 --> 00:19:54,661 You ready? 489 00:19:58,098 --> 00:19:59,065 -Gentlemen. -[chuckling] 490 00:19:59,099 --> 00:20:00,734 -Good morning. -Good morning. 491 00:20:00,767 --> 00:20:04,404 After reenacting Elizabeth Mackintosh's murder, 492 00:20:04,437 --> 00:20:07,340 we've confirmed it wasn't sexually motivated. 493 00:20:07,374 --> 00:20:08,975 It was motivated by rage. 494 00:20:09,009 --> 00:20:12,112 Any thoughts from yesterday that we need to talk about? 495 00:20:12,145 --> 00:20:14,447 We got the DNA call today at 2:00. 496 00:20:14,481 --> 00:20:16,783 -Yes, ma'am. -We know that Elizabeth's boss, 497 00:20:16,816 --> 00:20:19,252 Michael Johnson, was frustrated with Elizabeth 498 00:20:19,285 --> 00:20:22,689 and went to confront her that morning about their issues. 499 00:20:22,722 --> 00:20:25,158 But then he claimed that he couldn't find her 500 00:20:25,191 --> 00:20:26,860 and went on about his day, 501 00:20:26,893 --> 00:20:30,096 never visiting the men's bathroom where she was found. 502 00:20:30,130 --> 00:20:31,698 Kelly, Steve, this is Danny Rapert, 503 00:20:31,731 --> 00:20:33,166 the detective at the time. 504 00:20:33,199 --> 00:20:36,736 He conducted the original interview with Michael Johnson. 505 00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:37,604 I guess it's no secret to you. 506 00:20:37,637 --> 00:20:39,105 You're obviously a suspect. 507 00:20:39,139 --> 00:20:40,440 You were in the building. 508 00:20:40,473 --> 00:20:43,743 It's also a known fact that you two 509 00:20:43,777 --> 00:20:45,311 weren't necessarily friendly. 510 00:20:45,345 --> 00:20:47,180 I watched the whole interview again. 511 00:20:47,213 --> 00:20:48,515 Not sure who that young guy was 512 00:20:48,548 --> 00:20:50,917 -that was doing the interview. -[chuckling] 513 00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:52,819 -Well, that was you. -Oh, okay. 514 00:20:52,852 --> 00:20:55,989 Detective Danny Rapert is here today to go over 515 00:20:56,022 --> 00:20:58,625 Michael Johnson's interview tape to see if we can 516 00:20:58,658 --> 00:21:01,294 pick up on any possible signs of deception. 517 00:21:01,327 --> 00:21:02,429 One of the first things 518 00:21:02,462 --> 00:21:04,264 that I made note of is on page six. 519 00:21:04,297 --> 00:21:06,199 It says "Approximately 6:25, 520 00:21:06,232 --> 00:21:08,201 "I got up to take a shower. 521 00:21:08,234 --> 00:21:11,571 I went there to talk to her about a couple of things." 522 00:21:21,247 --> 00:21:24,718 He's referencing the memo, which might anger him. 523 00:21:42,335 --> 00:21:44,237 Then Danny asks him, 524 00:21:44,270 --> 00:21:46,272 "Okay, you went there about 7:10. 525 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,809 You were upstairs. You went downstairs, you looked around. 526 00:21:49,843 --> 00:21:52,312 Did you call her name? 527 00:21:52,345 --> 00:21:54,314 How's he looking for her, then? 528 00:22:09,629 --> 00:22:11,865 You went downstairs then? 529 00:22:11,898 --> 00:22:14,734 He says, "Okay, you left the chapel. Where did you go?" 530 00:22:14,768 --> 00:22:16,269 "I went to the administration building." 531 00:22:16,302 --> 00:22:19,105 Okay, now that's just about a 2-minute walk. 532 00:22:19,139 --> 00:22:21,474 The admin building. 533 00:22:21,508 --> 00:22:25,612 Where'd you go into it, on the side door? 534 00:22:25,645 --> 00:22:27,180 Back door down by the dorms? 535 00:22:32,085 --> 00:22:33,753 So he wanted a little bit of a change. 536 00:22:33,787 --> 00:22:36,589 -On this day. -On this day. 537 00:22:36,623 --> 00:22:39,225 8:30, you left the admin building. 538 00:22:39,259 --> 00:22:40,760 Where'd you go? You went back up the stairs. 539 00:22:40,794 --> 00:22:42,095 [Michael, whispering] 540 00:22:42,095 --> 00:22:44,364 When he says, "I went back to the chapel," 541 00:22:44,397 --> 00:22:49,636 Dan, this is probably the most concerning portion here. 542 00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:52,972 You arrive back at the chapel about 8:32, 543 00:22:53,006 --> 00:22:55,375 and obviously you said, "My God, 544 00:22:55,408 --> 00:22:56,643 there's police everywhere," right? 545 00:23:00,246 --> 00:23:01,881 Did you walk up and talk to anybody then? 546 00:23:10,924 --> 00:23:12,325 "Went back to the rest." 547 00:23:15,729 --> 00:23:18,198 In order to go "back" to the restroom, 548 00:23:18,231 --> 00:23:19,299 -you have to have been there. -That's a good catch. 549 00:23:19,332 --> 00:23:21,434 I don't remember catching it at the time, 550 00:23:21,468 --> 00:23:23,670 but, yeah, it's a good catch on your part. 551 00:23:23,703 --> 00:23:24,971 According to Michael, 552 00:23:25,071 --> 00:23:27,273 he never went to the restroom that morning. 553 00:23:27,307 --> 00:23:29,809 According to the tape, he might have slipped up. 554 00:23:29,843 --> 00:23:32,879 -All right, Danny, thanks a lot. -Thank you very much. 555 00:23:32,912 --> 00:23:35,482 Maybe he was nervous and just misspoke, 556 00:23:35,515 --> 00:23:37,183 but he sure doesn't look nervous. 557 00:23:37,217 --> 00:23:40,720 In any case, Michael's story sure seems a little fishy. 558 00:23:40,754 --> 00:23:42,956 *** 559 00:23:42,989 --> 00:23:45,091 You know, there aren't very many cases where 560 00:23:45,091 --> 00:23:46,493 you want DNA as much as we want it on this one. 561 00:23:46,526 --> 00:23:48,461 -Right. -Michael claims 562 00:23:48,495 --> 00:23:50,296 he never even saw Elizabeth that morning, 563 00:23:50,330 --> 00:23:52,098 but can DNA place him 564 00:23:52,132 --> 00:23:54,801 or any of our other three suspects at the scene? 565 00:23:54,834 --> 00:23:56,102 [line ringing] 566 00:23:57,103 --> 00:23:59,272 - Katelin Hogan speaking. -Hi, Katelin. 567 00:23:59,305 --> 00:24:02,208 We sent the ligature and Elizabeth's clothes 568 00:24:02,242 --> 00:24:05,545 off for the most recent, advanced DNA testing, 569 00:24:05,578 --> 00:24:08,081 and now it's time for the moment of truth. 570 00:24:18,258 --> 00:24:21,094 So no--no male DNA present on that. Okay. 571 00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:38,778 -Okay. -Wow. 572 00:24:38,812 --> 00:24:40,613 Well, thank you for trying. 573 00:24:41,815 --> 00:24:43,917 Well, that's unfortunate. 574 00:24:43,950 --> 00:24:45,452 I know you're disappointed. 575 00:24:45,485 --> 00:24:47,921 Sorensen did their best and tried their hardest. 576 00:24:47,954 --> 00:24:48,988 I'm not surprised. 577 00:24:49,089 --> 00:24:50,357 I think that we're all disappointed 578 00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:51,658 because we would like for that to be 579 00:24:51,691 --> 00:24:53,860 the easy way to answer this case, but it didn't, 580 00:24:53,893 --> 00:24:55,829 so we're right back to the typical way of 581 00:24:55,862 --> 00:24:57,931 solving a cold case-- We gotta go find witnesses 582 00:24:57,964 --> 00:24:59,699 and see what they can remember today 583 00:24:59,733 --> 00:25:02,102 and see if that's enough to piece the case together. 584 00:25:13,113 --> 00:25:15,415 [line ringing] 585 00:25:15,448 --> 00:25:17,283 -Hello? -Hey, Doug Manniger here 586 00:25:17,317 --> 00:25:18,952 with the Creve Coeur Police Department. 587 00:25:19,052 --> 00:25:20,553 Wanted to see if you have a couple of minutes 588 00:25:20,587 --> 00:25:22,722 -to talk with me real quick. -Okay. 589 00:25:22,756 --> 00:25:24,457 Our suspect, David Winecoff, 590 00:25:24,491 --> 00:25:26,626 got on law enforcement's radar 591 00:25:26,659 --> 00:25:28,561 because that acceptance letter 592 00:25:28,595 --> 00:25:31,331 found at the scene had his fingerprints on it. 593 00:25:31,364 --> 00:25:33,967 And some people believe that Winecoff's 594 00:25:34,067 --> 00:25:35,568 fatal rock-climbing accident 595 00:25:35,602 --> 00:25:38,672 three years later was actually 596 00:25:38,705 --> 00:25:42,108 a suicide out of guilt over killing Elizabeth. 597 00:25:42,142 --> 00:25:45,078 You knew Elizabeth very well, correct? 598 00:25:47,547 --> 00:25:49,816 -Okay. -David's widow 599 00:25:49,849 --> 00:25:52,619 alibied David for Elizabeth's murder. 600 00:25:52,652 --> 00:25:56,389 So the question today is, can she confirm that, 601 00:25:56,423 --> 00:25:59,259 or did he ever tell her anything incriminating 602 00:25:59,292 --> 00:26:00,827 before his death? 603 00:26:00,860 --> 00:26:04,297 That Sunday evening before Elizabeth was killed, 604 00:26:04,330 --> 00:26:06,666 did you happen to be attending service that day? 605 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:07,867 Okay. 606 00:26:12,672 --> 00:26:13,907 Okay. 607 00:26:13,940 --> 00:26:17,043 Were you aware that Elizabeth had been accepted 608 00:26:17,043 --> 00:26:19,412 to another seminary in the Florida area? 609 00:26:22,816 --> 00:26:25,118 So Monday, day of the murder. 610 00:26:27,153 --> 00:26:28,254 Mm-hmm. 611 00:26:35,161 --> 00:26:36,262 [chuckles] 612 00:26:40,834 --> 00:26:41,901 Sure. 613 00:26:42,902 --> 00:26:45,672 Her story matches what she told the police, 614 00:26:45,705 --> 00:26:47,841 and she confirms that David 615 00:26:47,874 --> 00:26:50,744 spoke to Elizabeth the night before her murder. 616 00:26:50,777 --> 00:26:53,813 You have to wonder if Elizabeth was so excited 617 00:26:53,847 --> 00:26:55,482 about that acceptance letter 618 00:26:55,515 --> 00:26:57,317 that she showed it to David, 619 00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:58,551 and that would explain 620 00:26:58,585 --> 00:27:00,687 his fingerprint being on the letter. 621 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,123 But we also need to clarify the circumstances 622 00:27:03,156 --> 00:27:05,025 surrounding David's death. 623 00:27:05,025 --> 00:27:07,394 You know, in your opinion, you didn't find him to be 624 00:27:07,427 --> 00:27:09,229 you know, distraught or have-- 625 00:27:09,262 --> 00:27:11,765 suffering from depression or...? 626 00:27:12,766 --> 00:27:15,301 His climbing event was, in your opinion, 627 00:27:15,335 --> 00:27:16,703 an accident, is that right? 628 00:27:17,671 --> 00:27:19,406 Okay. Very good. 629 00:27:20,407 --> 00:27:21,775 Okay. 630 00:27:24,411 --> 00:27:26,079 Gotcha. 631 00:27:27,914 --> 00:27:30,050 It's been 28 years since David's 632 00:27:30,050 --> 00:27:32,218 fatal rock climbing accident, 633 00:27:32,252 --> 00:27:34,554 and she has no reason in the world 634 00:27:34,587 --> 00:27:37,557 to burden her conscience by making up something 635 00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:39,592 about what happened to her husband. 636 00:27:39,626 --> 00:27:42,462 -I do thank you for your time. -All right. 637 00:27:42,495 --> 00:27:43,563 -Goodbye. -Bye bye. 638 00:27:43,596 --> 00:27:45,065 I think we can eliminate 639 00:27:45,065 --> 00:27:47,801 David Winecoff as a suspect as well. 640 00:27:47,834 --> 00:27:50,270 Okay, let's do Mr. Thomas Larson. 641 00:27:50,303 --> 00:27:52,072 -So he's the boss. -He's the boss 642 00:27:52,105 --> 00:27:54,908 of Michael Johnson and technically Elizabeth. 643 00:27:54,941 --> 00:27:58,378 He'll attest to their work relationship, I think. 644 00:27:58,411 --> 00:28:00,080 Yeah. We have eliminated 645 00:28:00,113 --> 00:28:03,216 all of our suspects except for Elizabeth's boss, 646 00:28:03,249 --> 00:28:06,553 Michael Johnson, who she was feuding with 647 00:28:06,586 --> 00:28:10,190 by memos in the days leading up to her murder. 648 00:28:10,223 --> 00:28:11,791 Hi, this is Thomas. 649 00:28:11,825 --> 00:28:13,760 Hey. Good morning, Mr. Larson. 650 00:28:13,793 --> 00:28:16,730 Michael's boss was a guy named Thomas Larson, 651 00:28:16,763 --> 00:28:18,431 and we're hoping by speaking to him, 652 00:28:18,465 --> 00:28:21,067 he can shed some light on this workplace feud 653 00:28:21,101 --> 00:28:22,936 they were having via memos, 654 00:28:23,036 --> 00:28:24,537 and maybe even shed some light 655 00:28:24,571 --> 00:28:26,806 on Michael Johnson as a person. 656 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,276 Could their workplace feud really have enraged him 657 00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:31,778 to the point of murder? 658 00:28:31,811 --> 00:28:33,913 Can you tell me a little bit about Elizabeth? 659 00:28:45,492 --> 00:28:48,161 Who else did you-- did you supervise? 660 00:28:51,831 --> 00:28:54,768 And he was Elizabeth's direct supervisor, 661 00:28:54,801 --> 00:28:56,069 is that correct, sir? 662 00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:12,185 Right. 663 00:29:14,521 --> 00:29:16,022 Right. 664 00:29:37,677 --> 00:29:39,245 According to Tom Larson, 665 00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:42,649 Michael Johnson is hot-tempered and arrogant. 666 00:29:42,682 --> 00:29:44,918 Maybe that arrogance is what accounts for 667 00:29:44,951 --> 00:29:48,421 his very relaxed demeanor during his police interrogation. 668 00:29:48,455 --> 00:29:50,490 And you have to wonder if that temper 669 00:29:50,523 --> 00:29:53,059 could have caused him to lose control 670 00:29:53,093 --> 00:29:55,228 in confronting Elizabeth. 671 00:29:55,261 --> 00:29:57,364 We wanted to talk specifically about 672 00:29:57,397 --> 00:29:59,566 the memo between Elizabeth and Michael. 673 00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:01,301 So I'm just going to read a little bit 674 00:30:01,334 --> 00:30:02,702 from your statements 675 00:30:02,736 --> 00:30:04,971 the day of the murder on the 26th of March. 676 00:30:05,005 --> 00:30:07,540 "Larson also reported that he had recently received 677 00:30:07,574 --> 00:30:10,543 "a written request for supplies from Mackintosh. 678 00:30:10,577 --> 00:30:12,645 "He then gave the written request to 679 00:30:12,679 --> 00:30:14,981 "her direct supervisor, Michael Johnson. 680 00:30:15,015 --> 00:30:17,650 "Johnson became upset with her bypassing 681 00:30:17,684 --> 00:30:19,552 "the proper chain of command 682 00:30:19,586 --> 00:30:21,921 "and prepared a letter to give to her. 683 00:30:21,955 --> 00:30:24,257 "Larson then stated that he was provided 684 00:30:24,290 --> 00:30:26,126 a Xerox copy of this letter." 685 00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:36,903 Thank you very much. 686 00:30:36,936 --> 00:30:38,138 Thank you very much for the work. 687 00:30:38,171 --> 00:30:39,906 Yes, sir. You're very welcome. Thank you. 688 00:30:39,939 --> 00:30:42,042 I think we need to review these memos 689 00:30:42,075 --> 00:30:44,044 between Michael and Elizabeth 690 00:30:44,077 --> 00:30:47,280 and see if possibly all the evidence we need 691 00:30:47,313 --> 00:30:50,784 has been right here in front of us this whole time. 692 00:30:57,824 --> 00:30:59,392 *** 693 00:30:59,426 --> 00:31:01,561 So these notes... 694 00:31:01,594 --> 00:31:03,830 So this is the letter that he wrote to her. 695 00:31:03,863 --> 00:31:05,699 Yeah. It's a very detailed letter 696 00:31:05,732 --> 00:31:07,667 for a simple supply request. 697 00:31:07,701 --> 00:31:11,871 Elizabeth Mackintosh felt like her boss, Michael Johnson, 698 00:31:11,905 --> 00:31:13,873 was not getting her the cleaning supplies 699 00:31:13,907 --> 00:31:15,542 she needed to do her job. 700 00:31:15,575 --> 00:31:17,510 So she went over his head 701 00:31:17,544 --> 00:31:19,946 and wrote to his boss, Tom Larson. 702 00:31:19,979 --> 00:31:23,183 This kicked off a series of exchanges 703 00:31:23,216 --> 00:31:24,818 between the two of them, 704 00:31:24,851 --> 00:31:27,287 and this is what prompted Michael Johnson to want 705 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,857 to go speak to Elizabeth the very morning of her murder. 706 00:31:30,890 --> 00:31:32,559 It's time we take a closer look. 707 00:31:32,592 --> 00:31:34,728 -Read the whole thing. -Yes, ma'am. 708 00:31:34,761 --> 00:31:38,531 "Elizabeth, last Friday I found this note in my box. 709 00:31:38,565 --> 00:31:41,201 "My first difficulty is why a note like this 710 00:31:41,234 --> 00:31:43,336 "should have been given to Tom Larson. 711 00:31:43,370 --> 00:31:47,107 "My frustration with this note is augmented by the following--" 712 00:31:47,107 --> 00:31:48,575 He has four points. 713 00:31:48,608 --> 00:31:53,513 Michael's note to Elizabeth is detailed and condescending, 714 00:31:53,546 --> 00:31:56,549 listing four ways that her note to Tom 715 00:31:56,583 --> 00:32:00,086 was both inaccurate and out of line. 716 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,857 His frustration with Elizabeth is so clear. 717 00:32:03,890 --> 00:32:06,192 And then this is the note that Elizabeth 718 00:32:06,226 --> 00:32:07,694 wrote to Michael Johnson 719 00:32:07,727 --> 00:32:09,262 about, you're getting too worked up, right? 720 00:32:09,295 --> 00:32:10,930 Correct. Her response, yeah. 721 00:32:10,964 --> 00:32:12,899 You were talking about some corrections. 722 00:32:12,932 --> 00:32:14,334 This is the same note. 723 00:32:14,367 --> 00:32:16,870 It's returned with just some highlighted things 724 00:32:16,903 --> 00:32:18,405 and pencil marks on it. 725 00:32:18,438 --> 00:32:20,573 "Clearly you are wrong," she says to him, 726 00:32:20,607 --> 00:32:22,242 so she's confrontational. 727 00:32:22,275 --> 00:32:23,743 They take this so personally, yeah. 728 00:32:24,711 --> 00:32:26,446 Elizabeth not only sent Michael 729 00:32:26,479 --> 00:32:29,082 a handwritten note and told him to lighten up, 730 00:32:29,082 --> 00:32:31,584 she returned his letter, correcting his spelling 731 00:32:31,618 --> 00:32:33,119 and adding her own thoughts 732 00:32:33,153 --> 00:32:35,255 with commentary like, "You are wrong," 733 00:32:35,288 --> 00:32:36,990 and "garbage and nonsense," 734 00:32:37,090 --> 00:32:40,293 and "Do not ever write me this sort of tone of memo again." 735 00:32:40,326 --> 00:32:43,163 Elizabeth clearly had no problem defending herself. 736 00:32:43,196 --> 00:32:44,798 Can you imagine that your boss sends you a note 737 00:32:44,831 --> 00:32:46,166 and you just like, make corrections... 738 00:32:46,199 --> 00:32:47,267 ALL: And send it right back. 739 00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:49,469 He still gets it back before... 740 00:32:49,502 --> 00:32:52,305 March 26, which is going to further agitate him. 741 00:32:52,339 --> 00:32:54,274 -A little bit, I would say. -I would think so. 742 00:32:54,307 --> 00:32:56,109 Great, great. I like that. 743 00:32:56,109 --> 00:32:58,812 These notes really paint a clear picture 744 00:32:58,845 --> 00:33:01,648 of the conflict between Elizabeth and Michael 745 00:33:01,681 --> 00:33:03,817 in the days before the murder. 746 00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:05,652 And according to the case file, 747 00:33:05,685 --> 00:33:09,255 this was not the only stressor going on in Michael's life. 748 00:33:09,289 --> 00:33:11,658 The day before the murder, he was denied 749 00:33:11,691 --> 00:33:14,094 a recommendation from the seminary. 750 00:33:14,127 --> 00:33:16,896 He was told he was going to have to move out of his house, 751 00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:18,298 and according to the neighbors, 752 00:33:18,331 --> 00:33:20,633 he got into an argument with his wife 753 00:33:20,667 --> 00:33:22,302 the night before the murders. 754 00:33:22,335 --> 00:33:24,270 That is a lot of stressors. 755 00:33:24,304 --> 00:33:26,606 If we're all thinking that he's not going to stand there 756 00:33:26,639 --> 00:33:28,408 and talk to y'all for very long tomorrow, 757 00:33:28,441 --> 00:33:29,809 if you're only going to get one question 758 00:33:29,843 --> 00:33:32,312 or two minutes with him tomorrow in Texas, 759 00:33:32,345 --> 00:33:33,813 maybe this note is it. 760 00:33:33,847 --> 00:33:35,849 Maybe this is what'll make him say something. 761 00:33:35,882 --> 00:33:36,950 Mm-hmm. 762 00:33:36,983 --> 00:33:40,653 *** 763 00:33:40,687 --> 00:33:46,226 *** 764 00:33:51,331 --> 00:33:52,499 Hey, buddy. 765 00:33:52,532 --> 00:33:55,101 Hey, Doug. Chuck and Steve here on speaker. 766 00:33:55,101 --> 00:33:58,204 We have located Michael Johnson's vehicle. 767 00:33:58,238 --> 00:33:59,472 Nice. 768 00:33:59,506 --> 00:34:02,475 We do believe that he's inside working right now. 769 00:34:02,509 --> 00:34:04,911 Detective Parker and I flew down to Texas 770 00:34:04,944 --> 00:34:06,079 to confront Michael Johnson 771 00:34:06,112 --> 00:34:08,381 face to face, once and for all. 772 00:34:08,415 --> 00:34:10,150 He wasn't at home, so we've tracked him down 773 00:34:10,183 --> 00:34:12,052 to his job at a home improvement store. 774 00:34:12,085 --> 00:34:14,354 Y'all found his car in the parking lot? 775 00:34:14,387 --> 00:34:15,722 -We did. -Great. 776 00:34:15,755 --> 00:34:17,891 You know, he could be getting off within an hour, 777 00:34:17,924 --> 00:34:19,559 or it could be--you know, 778 00:34:19,592 --> 00:34:21,061 he could be the late guy. We don't know. 779 00:34:21,061 --> 00:34:23,063 Catch him when he's walking to his car 780 00:34:23,063 --> 00:34:24,564 and he's not going to have any idea 781 00:34:24,597 --> 00:34:26,066 you're going to be coming at him there. 782 00:34:26,066 --> 00:34:29,069 We're going to wait it out and see what happens. 783 00:34:29,069 --> 00:34:30,136 -Good luck. -All right. 784 00:34:30,170 --> 00:34:31,638 Thanks, Chuck. Keep us updated. 785 00:34:31,671 --> 00:34:32,906 We don't want to approach Michael 786 00:34:32,939 --> 00:34:35,175 inside the store and create a scene, 787 00:34:35,208 --> 00:34:36,609 so now we sit and wait. 788 00:34:37,577 --> 00:34:39,479 Okay, we wait. 789 00:34:39,512 --> 00:34:41,348 Nothing like surveillance. 790 00:34:41,381 --> 00:34:48,488 *** 791 00:34:52,759 --> 00:34:54,728 Man, when they used to have to conduct surveillance like this, 792 00:34:54,761 --> 00:34:56,596 this must have been a long freaking night. 793 00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:58,565 We've done it on bank robberies before. 794 00:34:58,598 --> 00:35:00,367 -Yeah. -And it was cold, too. 795 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,634 We did it in the winter. 796 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:14,881 *** 797 00:35:15,882 --> 00:35:17,717 There's an older guy walking over there. 798 00:35:17,751 --> 00:35:18,918 -It's not him. -Yeah. 799 00:35:19,953 --> 00:35:21,955 -Here he comes. Praise Jesus. -That's him. 800 00:35:22,055 --> 00:35:24,057 Okay, let's go hot with the recorder. 801 00:35:24,090 --> 00:35:25,425 -Yeah, it is on. -[groans] 802 00:35:25,458 --> 00:35:27,427 Let's go. We got... 803 00:35:27,460 --> 00:35:31,364 *** 804 00:35:31,398 --> 00:35:33,400 -Michael Johnson? -Yes? 805 00:35:33,433 --> 00:35:34,534 Hey, I'm Chuck Parker. 806 00:35:34,567 --> 00:35:36,403 I'm a detective with Creve Coeur Police. 807 00:35:36,436 --> 00:35:37,971 -How are you doing? -Pretty good. 808 00:35:38,071 --> 00:35:40,140 Okay. Hey, I just wanted to update you 809 00:35:40,173 --> 00:35:42,075 on the Elizabeth Mackintosh case. 810 00:35:42,075 --> 00:35:44,678 There's been some evidence that's developed. 811 00:35:44,711 --> 00:35:45,945 Would you like to take a look at it 812 00:35:45,979 --> 00:35:47,814 and provide some input on it at all? 813 00:35:47,847 --> 00:35:49,683 -No, not right now. -Okay. 814 00:35:49,716 --> 00:35:52,085 You're not interested at all at what's been 815 00:35:52,085 --> 00:35:53,953 -developed over the years? -No. 816 00:35:53,987 --> 00:35:56,322 -Why is that? -I've talked to police before, 817 00:35:56,356 --> 00:35:57,457 and I've dealt with police before, 818 00:35:57,490 --> 00:35:59,259 and any time I've talked to the police 819 00:35:59,292 --> 00:36:00,827 it has not gone well. 820 00:36:00,860 --> 00:36:02,195 -Uh-- -I know that anything I can-- 821 00:36:02,228 --> 00:36:05,265 I say, can and will be, and it was used against me. 822 00:36:05,298 --> 00:36:07,367 Well, you put yourself in that chapel 823 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,203 right near where she was murdered that morning, right? 824 00:36:10,236 --> 00:36:11,671 I just walked through the hall. 825 00:36:11,705 --> 00:36:13,039 I mean, I walked by the bathroom, 826 00:36:13,039 --> 00:36:14,307 but I didn't go in the bathroom. 827 00:36:14,341 --> 00:36:15,842 You went there looking for her, though, right? 828 00:36:15,875 --> 00:36:17,777 Yeah, to talk to her about the whole issue 829 00:36:17,811 --> 00:36:19,112 with the bathroom, I think it was. 830 00:36:19,145 --> 00:36:20,480 What time do you think that was? 831 00:36:20,513 --> 00:36:22,182 Well, I think we've talked about it, gentlemen. 832 00:36:22,215 --> 00:36:25,118 Now, look, Michael, I mean, we're different investigators. 833 00:36:25,151 --> 00:36:28,054 We can look at this from a different perspective. 834 00:36:30,657 --> 00:36:32,525 He basically refused to talk to us, 835 00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:34,527 but, you know, he's an experienced guy at this. 836 00:36:34,561 --> 00:36:36,696 This has got to be his 6th or 7th time 837 00:36:36,730 --> 00:36:38,431 that law enforcement has approached him. 838 00:36:38,465 --> 00:36:40,467 He's not going to let us have an easy game here. 839 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:41,501 He wants to make us work for it, 840 00:36:41,534 --> 00:36:43,103 and that's okay. 841 00:36:43,136 --> 00:36:44,738 Okay, he's not going to talk to us. 842 00:36:45,872 --> 00:36:47,574 Some days the homicide gods are with you 843 00:36:47,607 --> 00:36:48,808 and some days they ain't. 844 00:36:58,752 --> 00:37:00,587 *** 845 00:37:00,620 --> 00:37:02,022 -Good morning, boys. -Good morning, good morning. 846 00:37:02,055 --> 00:37:03,656 -Hello. -How are you feeling today? 847 00:37:03,690 --> 00:37:05,058 Doing all right. 848 00:37:05,091 --> 00:37:07,827 Steve and Chuck are back from their trip to Texas 849 00:37:07,861 --> 00:37:09,863 to try and talk to Michael Johnson, 850 00:37:09,896 --> 00:37:12,165 who had no interest in answering 851 00:37:12,198 --> 00:37:14,701 their questions about Elizabeth's murder. 852 00:37:14,734 --> 00:37:17,070 The more you make this case less cloudy, 853 00:37:17,103 --> 00:37:19,072 the more everything just focuses back 854 00:37:19,105 --> 00:37:21,041 on one person, but that's okay. 855 00:37:21,041 --> 00:37:23,510 We may have figured it out ourselves. 856 00:37:23,543 --> 00:37:26,579 So Eugene Smith was on our board because...? 857 00:37:26,613 --> 00:37:30,083 He had an arrest record, sexual assault with a weapon. 858 00:37:30,116 --> 00:37:31,818 And George Johnston. 859 00:37:31,851 --> 00:37:34,487 He was known to have sexual fantasies. 860 00:37:34,521 --> 00:37:38,324 Did we find one witness who ever puts him in the chapel 861 00:37:38,358 --> 00:37:40,493 -the morning of our murder? -No. 862 00:37:40,527 --> 00:37:41,561 No. 863 00:37:41,594 --> 00:37:44,597 Eugene Smith was an alleged rapist, 864 00:37:44,631 --> 00:37:48,068 and George Johnson had violent sexual fantasies. 865 00:37:48,101 --> 00:37:50,937 But the truth is, nobody has ever been able to 866 00:37:50,970 --> 00:37:53,239 put them in the seminary that morning. 867 00:37:53,273 --> 00:37:55,375 And it seems that her killer 868 00:37:55,408 --> 00:37:58,144 didn't even attempt to sexually assault her. 869 00:37:58,178 --> 00:38:00,113 At this point, we don't have any reason 870 00:38:00,146 --> 00:38:01,781 to believe that he had any involvement. 871 00:38:01,815 --> 00:38:04,150 -Eliminate them? Yes. Yes. -Everybody's good. 872 00:38:04,184 --> 00:38:07,654 If there's one thing a repeat offender never changes, 873 00:38:07,687 --> 00:38:08,888 it's their motive. 874 00:38:08,922 --> 00:38:12,058 So we can eliminate both of them. 875 00:38:12,092 --> 00:38:14,728 Okay. David Winecoff. 876 00:38:14,761 --> 00:38:16,396 People saw them talking to each other 877 00:38:16,429 --> 00:38:18,798 the night before Sunday night in church. 878 00:38:18,832 --> 00:38:20,467 No issues, no argument, no nothing. 879 00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:23,603 And then you spoke to David Winecoff's widow. 880 00:38:28,608 --> 00:38:30,610 David Winecoff had his fingerprints on 881 00:38:30,643 --> 00:38:32,212 her letter found at the scene, 882 00:38:32,245 --> 00:38:34,280 but it seems now that those fingerprints 883 00:38:34,314 --> 00:38:35,882 were there innocently 884 00:38:35,915 --> 00:38:39,219 from her showing him that letter the night before. 885 00:38:39,252 --> 00:38:42,722 His alibi was confirmed and reconfirmed. 886 00:38:42,756 --> 00:38:46,459 He had no motive whatsoever to want to kill Elizabeth, 887 00:38:46,493 --> 00:38:49,796 and his death was nothing but a tragic accident. 888 00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:53,133 David Winecoff can be eliminated as a suspect. 889 00:38:53,166 --> 00:38:55,502 So we got one man left standing, Michael Johnson. 890 00:38:56,836 --> 00:39:01,007 He has admitted that he was going to meet Elizabeth. 891 00:39:01,007 --> 00:39:05,045 And how do we first find out about the issue, 892 00:39:05,078 --> 00:39:07,013 the reason for all the dispute? 893 00:39:07,013 --> 00:39:10,216 A memo that was a back-and-forth between 894 00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:11,818 Elizabeth and Michael Johnson 895 00:39:11,851 --> 00:39:14,020 about these supplies and the toilet paper roll. 896 00:39:14,020 --> 00:39:15,622 So he gives her, 897 00:39:15,655 --> 00:39:18,024 in this letter that's admissible, the stressors. 898 00:39:18,058 --> 00:39:19,359 Looking for a job. He's trying to find... 899 00:39:19,392 --> 00:39:20,727 -Yeah. Pretty big. -...a new employment. 900 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,129 And we know from other people, how's his marriage going? 901 00:39:23,163 --> 00:39:24,664 -Not very well. -They're struggling. 902 00:39:24,698 --> 00:39:26,032 You got the whole universe 903 00:39:26,032 --> 00:39:27,300 already starting to crumble down. 904 00:39:27,334 --> 00:39:28,668 With all he's got to deal with, 905 00:39:28,702 --> 00:39:30,036 he's going to go at 5:00 in the morning 906 00:39:30,070 --> 00:39:32,539 and talk to Elizabeth about cleaning supplies. 907 00:39:32,572 --> 00:39:35,108 What's this man's temper like? 908 00:39:35,141 --> 00:39:37,944 -He's angry. -Yeah, short temper. 909 00:39:38,044 --> 00:39:40,113 Very volatile, and how does he respond 910 00:39:40,146 --> 00:39:42,048 when people disagree with him? 911 00:39:42,082 --> 00:39:43,850 He beats his wife. 912 00:39:43,883 --> 00:39:46,486 It's easy to dismiss this idea. 913 00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:48,488 How could Elizabeth be killed over something 914 00:39:48,521 --> 00:39:50,824 as stupid as cleaning supplies, right? 915 00:39:50,857 --> 00:39:54,060 But when you put all the circumstantial evidence 916 00:39:54,094 --> 00:39:57,063 together, you can piece together a case 917 00:39:57,063 --> 00:39:59,499 that it's a whole lot more than that. 918 00:39:59,532 --> 00:40:01,234 How do you feel about your case, Chuck? 919 00:40:01,267 --> 00:40:03,103 I think it's the strongest it's been. 920 00:40:03,136 --> 00:40:06,072 When you picture the person that's Michael Johnson, 921 00:40:06,106 --> 00:40:10,276 with his temper and his control and anger management issues, 922 00:40:10,310 --> 00:40:12,512 you know that he was stressed. 923 00:40:12,545 --> 00:40:15,548 He had been told he was rejected by the seminary. 924 00:40:15,582 --> 00:40:18,118 He'd been told he had to move out of his house. 925 00:40:18,151 --> 00:40:20,754 All of this caused a fight with his wife 926 00:40:20,787 --> 00:40:22,689 the very night before the murder. 927 00:40:22,722 --> 00:40:24,090 And on top of all that, 928 00:40:24,124 --> 00:40:26,326 this woman that has the audacity 929 00:40:26,359 --> 00:40:28,528 to go over his head to his boss 930 00:40:28,561 --> 00:40:31,197 to complain about the cleaning supplies, 931 00:40:31,231 --> 00:40:33,099 he sets a time to go meet with her 932 00:40:33,133 --> 00:40:35,368 the morning of the murder. 933 00:40:35,402 --> 00:40:37,771 It wasn't just cleaning supplies. 934 00:40:37,804 --> 00:40:39,939 It was the last straw. 935 00:40:39,973 --> 00:40:42,909 And so you guys would be asking your prosecutor to do what? 936 00:40:42,942 --> 00:40:45,645 To get warrants issued for murder on Michael Johnson. 937 00:40:47,247 --> 00:40:48,848 Good luck. 938 00:40:48,882 --> 00:40:52,619 *** 939 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,557 * Make your way * 940 00:40:57,590 --> 00:41:01,728 * To the river, amen. * 941 00:41:03,063 --> 00:41:05,799 * Bring your pain * 942 00:41:05,832 --> 00:41:10,637 * To the river, amen. * 943 00:41:10,670 --> 00:41:12,639 I'm really looking forward to tell her we have 944 00:41:12,672 --> 00:41:14,774 a good case I think that hopefully 945 00:41:14,808 --> 00:41:17,410 the prosecutor will give some credence to, so. 946 00:41:17,444 --> 00:41:19,312 Been waiting 32 years... 947 00:41:19,346 --> 00:41:20,513 -That's right. -...to hear what you're 948 00:41:20,547 --> 00:41:22,482 -going to tell her today. -That's a long time. 949 00:41:22,515 --> 00:41:24,584 Doug and Chuck have set a meeting with 950 00:41:24,617 --> 00:41:27,754 their prosecutor to go over all the facts of the case. 951 00:41:27,787 --> 00:41:29,656 This is as close as Elizabeth's case 952 00:41:29,689 --> 00:41:32,992 will ever be to getting justice. 953 00:41:33,093 --> 00:41:36,496 It's time for this case to move forward. 954 00:41:36,529 --> 00:41:38,431 It's nice and hot outside. 955 00:41:38,465 --> 00:41:40,834 -Yes. I'm glad you got in. -Yes. 956 00:41:41,935 --> 00:41:43,503 -So... -Well, we... 957 00:41:43,536 --> 00:41:46,606 are very interested to find out. 958 00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:47,440 Yes, ma'am. 959 00:41:47,474 --> 00:41:49,142 We worked very diligently. 960 00:41:49,175 --> 00:41:51,177 We talked to a lot of different witnesses. 961 00:41:51,211 --> 00:41:53,580 We feel we have a good case. 962 00:41:53,613 --> 00:41:56,516 We have one person that we're really focused on. 963 00:41:56,549 --> 00:41:58,651 We believe that it was somebody that-- 964 00:41:58,685 --> 00:42:00,620 that was probably there on campus, 965 00:42:00,653 --> 00:42:02,288 somebody that lived there. 966 00:42:02,322 --> 00:42:04,691 Again, somebody that knew her routine... 967 00:42:04,724 --> 00:42:06,159 Who's covering up their reason 968 00:42:06,192 --> 00:42:08,828 for needing to see her at that time. 969 00:42:08,862 --> 00:42:10,397 Yeah. 970 00:42:10,430 --> 00:42:11,531 We're going to present it 971 00:42:11,564 --> 00:42:12,699 to our St. Louis county prosecutor 972 00:42:12,732 --> 00:42:13,733 and see what they have to say. 973 00:42:13,767 --> 00:42:15,969 He was able to find enough witnesses 974 00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:17,537 still, 32 years later, 975 00:42:17,570 --> 00:42:20,073 to reconfirm all the little pieces, 976 00:42:20,073 --> 00:42:21,408 to put it all together. 977 00:42:21,441 --> 00:42:23,543 It's a circumstantial evidence case... 978 00:42:23,576 --> 00:42:25,178 -Mm-hmm. -but it's still a good case. 979 00:42:25,211 --> 00:42:26,746 -That's wonderful. -Yeah. 980 00:42:26,780 --> 00:42:29,282 That's wonderful that you have a way forward. 981 00:42:29,315 --> 00:42:32,485 We've thought about this for so many years 982 00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:34,688 and wondered for so many years, 983 00:42:34,721 --> 00:42:36,690 and it's just remarkable 984 00:42:36,723 --> 00:42:38,892 that they're able to bring something together. 985 00:42:38,925 --> 00:42:41,361 It just shows how passionate they were. 986 00:42:41,394 --> 00:42:44,831 Perhaps they can bring it to conclusion now. 987 00:42:44,864 --> 00:42:48,401 I'm so very hopeful that they can do that, finally. 988 00:42:48,435 --> 00:42:50,236 Everyone was, you know, so pleasant 989 00:42:50,270 --> 00:42:52,572 when they talked about Elizabeth and her personality. 990 00:42:52,605 --> 00:42:53,873 -She was very alive. -Lots of new stories. 991 00:42:53,907 --> 00:42:55,208 She was very bright. 992 00:42:55,241 --> 00:42:57,143 Everybody remembers her. 993 00:42:57,177 --> 00:42:58,812 They couldn't be more happy 994 00:42:58,845 --> 00:43:00,380 that they're still working on the case. 995 00:43:00,413 --> 00:43:01,748 -Yeah. -So be happy 996 00:43:01,781 --> 00:43:03,183 to know that people still think about your sister. 997 00:43:03,216 --> 00:43:04,451 Yes. 998 00:43:04,484 --> 00:43:08,054 Elizabeth Mackintosh dedicated her life 999 00:43:08,088 --> 00:43:11,725 to God, to helping people, 1000 00:43:11,758 --> 00:43:13,760 to doing the right thing. 1001 00:43:13,793 --> 00:43:16,930 And, my God, 1002 00:43:16,963 --> 00:43:19,466 we all want to think that she's 1003 00:43:19,499 --> 00:43:21,568 looking down from heaven right now, 1004 00:43:21,601 --> 00:43:26,206 watching all of this, knowing that everyone is trying 1005 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:31,177 their very hardest to get her the justice she deserves. 1006 00:43:31,211 --> 00:43:38,251 ***