1 00:00:11,911 --> 00:00:14,581 WOMAN: * I've got some * 2 00:00:15,148 --> 00:00:16,349 * Loose threads * 3 00:00:16,383 --> 00:00:18,018 * You * 4 00:00:18,051 --> 00:00:21,021 * Couldn't help but notice * 5 00:00:21,054 --> 00:00:23,089 * Some of my psychosis * 6 00:00:23,123 --> 00:00:25,258 I tell you what, you keep coming back here to Texas, 7 00:00:25,291 --> 00:00:26,726 you're gonna feel like you live here, right? 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,262 I like Texas. Absolutely the best people I've ever met. 9 00:00:29,295 --> 00:00:32,032 Steve and I are back in San Jacinto County, 10 00:00:32,065 --> 00:00:34,534 where we recently investigated the 1992 case 11 00:00:34,567 --> 00:00:36,369 of Natasha Atchley. 12 00:00:36,403 --> 00:00:38,638 Natasha's sitting in the front seat of her car. 13 00:00:38,672 --> 00:00:40,774 Her doors won't open. She can't get unstuck. 14 00:00:40,807 --> 00:00:42,375 And then all of a sudden, there's the fire, 15 00:00:42,409 --> 00:00:44,077 and it's too late, and now she can't get out. 16 00:00:44,110 --> 00:00:45,278 I don't believe she was murdered. 17 00:00:45,311 --> 00:00:46,813 These people are innocent. 18 00:00:46,846 --> 00:00:49,916 This time we're here for Rhonda Richardson. 19 00:00:49,949 --> 00:00:53,620 Rhonda was a 59-year-old corrections officer. 20 00:00:53,653 --> 00:00:57,123 Back in 2019, she went searching for her lost dog 21 00:00:57,157 --> 00:00:59,826 and was found dead in the woods the next day. 22 00:00:59,859 --> 00:01:01,961 I remember when this happened three years ago, 23 00:01:02,062 --> 00:01:02,896 but it was a big deal on the news 24 00:01:02,929 --> 00:01:05,932 because Rhonda Richardson was a TDCJ guard. 25 00:01:05,965 --> 00:01:07,767 So she's law enforcement. 26 00:01:07,801 --> 00:01:09,436 SPINGOLA: It's a different type of case. 27 00:01:09,469 --> 00:01:11,104 I figured you would like it. 28 00:01:11,137 --> 00:01:12,739 It's really a little bit strange. 29 00:01:12,772 --> 00:01:14,407 You studied the pictures. 30 00:01:14,441 --> 00:01:16,176 So what's your takeaway from all that? 31 00:01:16,209 --> 00:01:18,345 SPINGOLA: Well, the hyoid isn't fractured. 32 00:01:18,378 --> 00:01:21,514 There's no indications there was any trauma to the body, 33 00:01:21,548 --> 00:01:23,350 but it does appear that she was scalped 34 00:01:23,383 --> 00:01:26,086 because there's cuts along-- up to the temple 35 00:01:26,119 --> 00:01:27,487 and then that hair is pulled right off. 36 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,458 And the way she looked out there is just enough 37 00:01:31,491 --> 00:01:33,593 that I'll never forget this case. 38 00:01:33,626 --> 00:01:35,628 Due to extreme decomposition, 39 00:01:35,662 --> 00:01:38,498 Rhonda's exact cause of death could not be determined, 40 00:01:38,531 --> 00:01:40,100 but it looks like she was scalped by her killer. 41 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:42,135 SIEGLER: And I know they have a good suspect. 42 00:01:42,168 --> 00:01:43,703 I know he's a registered sex offender, 43 00:01:43,737 --> 00:01:45,171 and I know he's weird. 44 00:01:45,205 --> 00:01:47,841 But that's a far cry from scalping somebody. 45 00:01:47,874 --> 00:01:49,809 That's a hell of a jump. You don't think 46 00:01:49,843 --> 00:01:51,544 there's an animal out in these woods 47 00:01:51,578 --> 00:01:53,713 who can grab ahold of her hair and bite that and rip it off? 48 00:01:53,747 --> 00:01:56,349 I've never seen an animal do something like that 49 00:01:56,383 --> 00:01:58,118 without leaving the teeth marks. 50 00:01:58,118 --> 00:02:00,286 We can't be making some innocent man 51 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,622 go to prison behind this if he's not guilty. 52 00:02:02,655 --> 00:02:04,224 The sheriff's office thinks 53 00:02:04,257 --> 00:02:06,326 that this is a sexually motivated homicide, 54 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:09,629 and Steve agrees with that, but I'm not convinced. 55 00:02:09,662 --> 00:02:11,531 I think it's possible 56 00:02:11,564 --> 00:02:14,401 that Rhonda died of a heart attack or a stroke 57 00:02:14,434 --> 00:02:16,970 and then was preyed upon by animals. 58 00:02:17,070 --> 00:02:18,805 The last time we were here, 59 00:02:18,838 --> 00:02:20,874 we thought that Natasha Atchley was murdered, 60 00:02:20,907 --> 00:02:23,843 but we determined she died accidentally. 61 00:02:23,877 --> 00:02:25,178 So I'm not ruling anything out. 62 00:02:25,211 --> 00:02:26,713 SPINGOLA: I'm telling you, 63 00:02:26,746 --> 00:02:29,849 these sex offenders are the weirdest ducks 64 00:02:29,883 --> 00:02:32,085 I have ever come across in my life. 65 00:02:32,085 --> 00:02:34,087 And you've seen more murders than most cops in this country. 66 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,322 How many scalpings have you worked? One. 67 00:02:36,356 --> 00:02:39,092 I've had penises cut off. I've had breasts cut off. 68 00:02:39,092 --> 00:02:40,760 Not the same thing as scalping. 69 00:02:40,794 --> 00:02:42,095 - Yeah. Okay. - Not the same thing. 70 00:02:42,128 --> 00:02:43,563 I'm gonna let you off right here. 71 00:02:43,596 --> 00:02:45,432 I bet I'm gonna be right by the time we're done here. 72 00:02:45,465 --> 00:02:47,534 - Okay. - Bet it's not a scalping. 73 00:02:47,567 --> 00:02:49,736 She dropped dead of a heatstroke. 74 00:02:49,769 --> 00:02:51,538 You got your defense attorney hat on today. 75 00:02:51,571 --> 00:02:53,673 I know. I can't believe I'm sitting here 76 00:02:53,707 --> 00:02:56,009 trying to keep somebody from going to prison. 77 00:02:56,109 --> 00:02:57,977 I just don't think he did it. 78 00:03:03,083 --> 00:03:04,918 - Hey, Kelly. - Glad to be back. 79 00:03:04,951 --> 00:03:06,720 Yes, ma'am. Good to have you back. 80 00:03:06,753 --> 00:03:08,088 - Good to see you again. - Yes, ma'am. 81 00:03:08,121 --> 00:03:09,556 - Steve Spingola. - Omar Sheikh. Nice to meet you. 82 00:03:09,589 --> 00:03:11,057 - Gary Sharpen. - Nice to meet you, Gary. 83 00:03:11,091 --> 00:03:12,058 - Omar, good to see you again. - You, too, Kelly. 84 00:03:12,092 --> 00:03:14,527 We just really appreciate that y'all came back 85 00:03:14,561 --> 00:03:17,430 and y'all are now helping us close another case. 86 00:03:17,464 --> 00:03:19,232 We're excited. Gary, we know it's your case. 87 00:03:19,265 --> 00:03:20,633 You've been invested in it 88 00:03:20,667 --> 00:03:22,068 and working in it ever since it happened, right? 89 00:03:22,068 --> 00:03:23,703 Right from the beginning. 90 00:03:23,737 --> 00:03:26,306 I've been in law enforcement for over 25 years. 91 00:03:26,339 --> 00:03:28,708 I've never seen anything like this before. 92 00:03:28,742 --> 00:03:31,211 This one was extremely brutal. 93 00:03:31,244 --> 00:03:33,947 Rhonda was sweet and she was kind, 94 00:03:33,980 --> 00:03:35,749 and she didn't deserve this. 95 00:03:35,782 --> 00:03:39,786 I just wanna do everything in my powers to find her killer. 96 00:03:39,819 --> 00:03:42,589 SIEGLER: Rhonda Richardson was 59. 97 00:03:42,622 --> 00:03:44,224 SHARPEN: She was a very pretty woman 98 00:03:44,257 --> 00:03:45,625 and everybody liked her. 99 00:03:45,658 --> 00:03:47,627 SIEGLER: She had three kids, right? 100 00:03:47,660 --> 00:03:49,929 SHARPEN: Yeah. Family was important to her. 101 00:03:49,963 --> 00:03:51,297 SIEGLER: Wasn't there a time, too, 102 00:03:51,331 --> 00:03:53,099 where she even helped raise her grandkids? 103 00:03:53,099 --> 00:03:54,334 SHARPEN: Yeah, she did have them living with her 104 00:03:54,367 --> 00:03:56,236 for a short time. 105 00:03:56,269 --> 00:03:58,471 It feels like from reading your file and all your interviews, 106 00:03:58,505 --> 00:04:00,140 Rhonda was pretty private. 107 00:04:00,173 --> 00:04:02,342 SHARPEN: She was. She really stuck to herself. 108 00:04:02,375 --> 00:04:05,111 She lived alone. She had a couple of dogs. 109 00:04:05,145 --> 00:04:06,413 She treated them like family. 110 00:04:06,446 --> 00:04:08,314 She worked for TDC for how long? 111 00:04:08,348 --> 00:04:09,649 SHARPEN: Well over 20 years. 112 00:04:09,683 --> 00:04:12,052 She got along with her coworkers. 113 00:04:12,052 --> 00:04:15,789 Her primary job at the prison was with the operations side, 114 00:04:15,822 --> 00:04:20,860 where she didn't have much to do with dealing with inmates. 115 00:04:20,894 --> 00:04:22,862 Okay. You consider her law enforcement, right? 116 00:04:22,896 --> 00:04:25,331 - Absolutely. She was family. - That's what he said. 117 00:04:27,067 --> 00:04:32,272 Yep. So, on May 22nd in 2019, we got a 911 call. 118 00:04:32,305 --> 00:04:33,940 Deputies responded. 119 00:04:33,973 --> 00:04:37,577 They went out to a location in the National Forest. 120 00:04:44,084 --> 00:04:48,488 There was a trail that was cut through the National Forest, 121 00:04:48,521 --> 00:04:51,091 frequented by ATVs, four-wheelers. 122 00:04:51,091 --> 00:04:52,892 It's extremely isolated. 123 00:04:52,926 --> 00:04:54,327 And when I walked down the trail, 124 00:04:54,361 --> 00:04:56,996 I saw Rhonda laying face first 125 00:04:57,097 --> 00:04:59,199 about eight feet off the trail. 126 00:05:01,101 --> 00:05:02,836 And she was fully clothed. 127 00:05:02,869 --> 00:05:05,839 Her boots there right next to her. 128 00:05:05,872 --> 00:05:08,041 There was no trauma to her torso, 129 00:05:08,041 --> 00:05:09,142 her legs, her body. 130 00:05:09,175 --> 00:05:11,878 Her hair's all up front. See? 131 00:05:11,911 --> 00:05:14,047 That's all her hair up top. 132 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,915 Like something pulled her hair out. 133 00:05:15,949 --> 00:05:18,818 The strange thing was, there was no hair 134 00:05:18,852 --> 00:05:21,855 from the back of her neck all the way to the top of her head. 135 00:05:24,190 --> 00:05:26,326 The skin from her scalp is completely missing. 136 00:05:26,359 --> 00:05:29,529 And when we finally was able to flip her over, 137 00:05:29,562 --> 00:05:33,667 that's when I saw that her face was completely missing. 138 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:35,935 Do you think that the injuries to the scalping 139 00:05:35,969 --> 00:05:37,370 is postmortem, after she's dead? 140 00:05:37,404 --> 00:05:39,406 Absolutely. It's postmortem. Absolutely. 141 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:41,107 Everybody's agreeing after. 142 00:05:41,141 --> 00:05:43,076 SPINGOLA: In all my years of law enforcement experience, 143 00:05:43,076 --> 00:05:45,211 I've only seen a scalping once. 144 00:05:45,245 --> 00:05:48,081 If the killer was an obsessive stalker with sexual fantasies, 145 00:05:48,081 --> 00:05:49,683 maybe that's what this was 146 00:05:49,716 --> 00:05:52,585 or maybe a display of power or an attempt at a trophy. 147 00:05:52,619 --> 00:05:55,588 These offenders are wired differently than you and I. 148 00:05:55,622 --> 00:05:57,757 They're attracted to different sexual fantasies. 149 00:05:57,791 --> 00:06:00,226 And each one is unique and different. 150 00:06:00,260 --> 00:06:01,795 You guys are behind the eight ball here. 151 00:06:01,828 --> 00:06:03,630 That body was decomposed. 152 00:06:03,663 --> 00:06:06,366 It was out there for, I think, a day and a half in that heat. 153 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:07,767 The worst part is, 154 00:06:07,801 --> 00:06:10,270 due to the extreme decomposition of Rhonda's body, 155 00:06:10,303 --> 00:06:12,038 We don't exactly know how she was killed. 156 00:06:12,072 --> 00:06:14,607 My experience leads me to believe she was strangled. 157 00:06:14,641 --> 00:06:16,443 But at this time, we can't prove it. 158 00:06:16,476 --> 00:06:19,379 From where her body was and her actual house 159 00:06:19,412 --> 00:06:21,047 was half a mile maybe. 160 00:06:21,081 --> 00:06:22,716 It's like a small neighborhood, 161 00:06:22,749 --> 00:06:25,318 and it butts up to the National Forest. 162 00:06:25,352 --> 00:06:26,953 Quite a bit of the people around the neighborhood 163 00:06:27,053 --> 00:06:28,922 had come out, talking to the other deputies. 164 00:06:37,063 --> 00:06:39,632 Neighbors reported seeing Rhonda the morning before 165 00:06:39,666 --> 00:06:41,468 out searching for her lost dog. 166 00:06:41,501 --> 00:06:43,303 The medical examiner determined 167 00:06:43,336 --> 00:06:45,805 that she was likely killed soon after that, 168 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,075 just roughly 24 hours before her body was found. 169 00:06:49,109 --> 00:06:51,077 She had no known enemies 170 00:06:51,077 --> 00:06:54,681 or issues with former inmates or coworkers. 171 00:06:54,714 --> 00:06:57,517 - Who was the 911 caller? - Jacen Clary. 172 00:06:57,550 --> 00:06:59,586 And the Clary family lives out there in the neighborhood. 173 00:06:59,619 --> 00:07:01,521 After we started asking questions, 174 00:07:01,554 --> 00:07:04,524 we found out that this uncle, Robert, 175 00:07:04,557 --> 00:07:06,926 was the one that actually discovered her body. 176 00:07:07,027 --> 00:07:09,496 SIEGLER: Okay. Y'all wanna start with Robert Clary. 177 00:07:09,529 --> 00:07:11,698 SHARPEN: Robert lived in a camper by himself. 178 00:07:11,731 --> 00:07:13,133 He was unemployed. 179 00:07:13,166 --> 00:07:15,135 Didn't have much of a personal life. 180 00:07:15,168 --> 00:07:18,605 He'd been in and out of prison for most of his adult life. 181 00:07:18,638 --> 00:07:21,374 Registered sex offender in San Jacinto County. 182 00:07:21,408 --> 00:07:23,176 She knew who he was, 183 00:07:23,209 --> 00:07:25,879 and there wasn't any type of like a friendship. 184 00:07:25,912 --> 00:07:27,180 They were just neighborly. 185 00:07:39,426 --> 00:07:43,697 Robert Clary told us the day before, on the 21st, 186 00:07:43,730 --> 00:07:47,334 that he had actually helped and assisted Rhonda 187 00:07:47,367 --> 00:07:50,337 with finding this lost dog in the National Forest. 188 00:07:50,370 --> 00:07:52,906 He was on the four-wheeler. She was on foot. 189 00:07:52,939 --> 00:07:54,574 She's out there yelling and screaming. 190 00:07:54,607 --> 00:07:56,076 He's on the four-wheeler, 191 00:07:56,076 --> 00:07:57,310 and they're separately looking for the dog. 192 00:07:57,344 --> 00:07:59,479 SHEIKH: He said she was sweating. 193 00:07:59,512 --> 00:08:01,214 He decides to go back home. 194 00:08:01,247 --> 00:08:03,249 Is that the last time he sees her? 195 00:08:03,283 --> 00:08:06,052 SHEIKH: Yes. Then Wednesday, he said he went to the woods, 196 00:08:06,086 --> 00:08:07,454 and that's when he found the body. 197 00:08:12,092 --> 00:08:15,228 And he takes pictures of her body 198 00:08:15,261 --> 00:08:19,265 when he first discovered her, which just blew me away. 199 00:08:19,299 --> 00:08:22,936 SIEGLER: Robert said he was trying to help the investigators 200 00:08:23,036 --> 00:08:26,339 and was advised by an officer to delete the photos. 201 00:08:26,373 --> 00:08:30,043 But was there more to his fascination with Rhonda? 202 00:08:30,076 --> 00:08:32,212 And if so, what would be his motivation 203 00:08:32,245 --> 00:08:34,714 to kill her, let alone scalp her? 204 00:08:34,748 --> 00:08:36,249 In Robert's defense, 205 00:08:36,282 --> 00:08:37,884 you got a search warrant for Robert's house, right? 206 00:08:37,917 --> 00:08:40,620 Robert's house, Robert's truck, and Robert's four-wheeler. 207 00:08:40,653 --> 00:08:41,955 - SPINGOLA: And nothing, right? - Nothing. 208 00:08:42,055 --> 00:08:44,057 He volunteered that he would do a polygraph. 209 00:08:44,057 --> 00:08:45,592 He said to eliminate himself 210 00:08:45,625 --> 00:08:47,394 as a potential suspect in this case. 211 00:08:47,427 --> 00:08:49,462 - SIEGLER: He failed it, right? - Yes. 212 00:08:49,496 --> 00:08:52,232 My problem with the case 213 00:08:52,265 --> 00:08:58,905 is that you don't have a completely thorough autopsy 214 00:08:58,938 --> 00:09:01,141 that can definitively tell us 215 00:09:01,174 --> 00:09:06,246 is it possible this is just natural heart attack, animal. 216 00:09:06,279 --> 00:09:08,915 That's what I'm worried about-- that it's just a heart attack... 217 00:09:09,015 --> 00:09:10,450 - Okay. - ...from a heatstroke. 218 00:09:10,483 --> 00:09:12,485 Does she have any other medical history, though? 219 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:15,155 She's got blood pressure medicine. She's way overweight. 220 00:09:15,188 --> 00:09:18,124 She took off a year before for a month for hurting her leg. 221 00:09:18,158 --> 00:09:20,060 He said that she was sweating. 222 00:09:20,093 --> 00:09:21,728 - And? - SPINGOLA: Red. 223 00:09:21,761 --> 00:09:26,266 Very red in the face and about to pass out. 224 00:09:26,299 --> 00:09:29,669 And she told him, "I can't take this heat." 225 00:09:29,703 --> 00:09:33,239 But if she did have some type of a medical emergency, 226 00:09:33,273 --> 00:09:35,408 we would've been able to see that with... 227 00:09:35,442 --> 00:09:37,310 No. They can't tell it's a heart attack 228 00:09:37,344 --> 00:09:38,812 'cause she was so decomposed. 229 00:09:38,845 --> 00:09:40,647 There's a crime there, Kelly. 230 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:42,682 It's called "abuse of a corpse." That's not murder. 231 00:09:42,716 --> 00:09:44,617 So, abusive corpse. 232 00:09:44,651 --> 00:09:47,087 What about the scalping and the hair? 233 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,790 Like, did somebody else come upon her and scalp her after? 234 00:09:50,824 --> 00:09:53,426 SPINGOLA: Well, does he come across this? 235 00:09:53,460 --> 00:09:55,695 And he's got some attraction to hair. Again, I don't know. 236 00:09:55,729 --> 00:09:58,064 - I don't think so. - And I'm the only one 237 00:09:58,064 --> 00:10:00,500 who's sitting there worried that it's not a coyote 238 00:10:00,533 --> 00:10:02,302 or something that yanked her hair off? 239 00:10:02,335 --> 00:10:04,304 You don't think it's an animal at all? 240 00:10:04,337 --> 00:10:06,773 He may have had some sort of sexual fetish. 241 00:10:06,806 --> 00:10:09,109 - For feet. - Oh, come on. 242 00:10:09,142 --> 00:10:10,944 - Oh, come on. - Where's the sexual assault? 243 00:10:10,977 --> 00:10:11,978 Her clothes are on her... 244 00:10:12,012 --> 00:10:13,346 Okay. Maybe he's feeling her up. 245 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:15,148 That's the thing about it, too, 246 00:10:15,181 --> 00:10:18,518 is that strangely, why would she take off her boots? 247 00:10:18,551 --> 00:10:20,854 I've done it before. I've done it before. 248 00:10:20,887 --> 00:10:23,790 When you're hot with jeans on in 90-degree temperature... 249 00:10:23,823 --> 00:10:26,059 - Then why not look for shade? - ...and you're burning up hot. 250 00:10:26,092 --> 00:10:28,728 My head wants to explode here. He tells his nephew, 251 00:10:28,762 --> 00:10:30,230 "I'm waiting for 'em to come and arrest me." 252 00:10:30,263 --> 00:10:32,165 Who says that if you're innocent? 253 00:10:32,198 --> 00:10:33,967 SIEGLER: He's been to prison, 254 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,469 so he's gonna be weird and defensive and odd and all that. 255 00:10:36,503 --> 00:10:39,539 His behavior changed after this, for Christ's sake. 256 00:10:39,572 --> 00:10:41,474 Where's the real Kelly Siegler? 257 00:10:41,508 --> 00:10:45,378 Would you get a DNA sample and prove to me it's you? 258 00:10:45,412 --> 00:10:47,247 - Calm down. - I'm fine. I am perfect. 259 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,649 We don't usually argue this hard on day one. 260 00:10:49,683 --> 00:10:51,351 R-E-L-A-X, okay? 261 00:10:51,384 --> 00:10:53,353 You're just mirroring what me and Gary went through. 262 00:10:53,386 --> 00:10:55,188 No, it's fine. I'm not getting worked up. 263 00:10:55,221 --> 00:10:57,991 I'm just--Honestly, guys, I'm usually there. 264 00:10:58,024 --> 00:10:59,559 I'm not there yet. 265 00:10:59,592 --> 00:11:01,494 I'm not saying we're not gonna get there. 266 00:11:01,528 --> 00:11:03,229 But y'all gotta listen to me like I'm listening to you. 267 00:11:13,606 --> 00:11:14,974 - SIEGLER: Ready? - SHARPEN: Yeah. 268 00:11:17,310 --> 00:11:18,678 Gary and I are meeting 269 00:11:18,712 --> 00:11:20,980 with Rhonda Richardson's daughter Amanda. 270 00:11:21,081 --> 00:11:23,216 Hey. How it's going? You doing all right? 271 00:11:23,249 --> 00:11:26,820 The dynamic between Amanda and her mom is a little different 272 00:11:26,853 --> 00:11:28,688 because her mom was in law enforcement. 273 00:11:28,722 --> 00:11:30,690 Out here in the country and raising three kids, 274 00:11:30,724 --> 00:11:32,826 I wonder what that was like, growing up in a house 275 00:11:32,859 --> 00:11:34,561 where you mom's basically a cop. 276 00:11:34,594 --> 00:11:37,097 So, Kelly's here to help us out. 277 00:11:37,097 --> 00:11:38,631 We just wanted to talk to you, 278 00:11:38,665 --> 00:11:40,467 trying to figure out what had happened. 279 00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:42,369 Just tell me a little bit about your mom. 280 00:11:42,402 --> 00:11:44,804 My mom was a very private person. 281 00:11:44,838 --> 00:11:46,806 She was getting ready to retire. 282 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,110 Had been working with the state for 25 years. 283 00:11:50,110 --> 00:11:53,346 She loved spending time with her grandkids. 284 00:11:53,380 --> 00:11:56,883 She helped a great deal with my daughter when she was born 285 00:11:56,916 --> 00:11:59,886 and with my brother's kids and helped them out. 286 00:11:59,919 --> 00:12:01,221 SIEGLER: How many grandkids did she have? 287 00:12:01,254 --> 00:12:02,655 AMANDA: It was five grandkids. 288 00:12:02,689 --> 00:12:04,357 At the time of everything, 289 00:12:04,391 --> 00:12:06,426 how was your relationship with your mother? 290 00:12:06,459 --> 00:12:08,695 I wouldn't say we were completely close, 291 00:12:08,728 --> 00:12:10,697 but we didn't have any issues. 292 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:12,932 We had an on-again, off-again... 293 00:12:12,966 --> 00:12:14,868 Just like a mother/daughter. Just a spat... 294 00:12:14,901 --> 00:12:18,905 We had our quarrels. Yeah. But I left when I was 15. 295 00:12:18,938 --> 00:12:21,608 - 15? - I did. I moved in with my dad. 296 00:12:21,641 --> 00:12:23,677 She was trying so hard, 297 00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:26,713 not realizing she was too overbearing and constrictive. 298 00:12:26,746 --> 00:12:29,215 And I get it. I do now. 299 00:12:29,249 --> 00:12:31,584 As a parent, I completely understand. 300 00:12:31,618 --> 00:12:33,853 I just don't think she went the right way about it. 301 00:12:33,887 --> 00:12:36,623 But I don't think she knew any other way. 302 00:12:36,656 --> 00:12:38,892 - It's hard to be a single mom. - Yeah. 303 00:12:38,925 --> 00:12:41,795 To not have the support. 304 00:12:41,828 --> 00:12:43,930 And I couldn't imagine going through 305 00:12:43,963 --> 00:12:46,599 what she had to go through. 306 00:12:46,633 --> 00:12:48,401 He's told you and you already know 307 00:12:48,435 --> 00:12:50,103 it is a hard case, girl. Okay? 308 00:12:50,136 --> 00:12:51,538 I know. 309 00:12:51,571 --> 00:12:53,239 I wish we could promise you something, 310 00:12:53,273 --> 00:12:55,542 but we're not promising you that, okay? 311 00:12:55,575 --> 00:12:59,379 There's a piece out there that will connect this. 312 00:12:59,412 --> 00:13:01,481 - I don't know what it is. - I'm trying to find it. 313 00:13:01,514 --> 00:13:02,649 I hope so. 314 00:13:02,682 --> 00:13:04,918 Big mix of emotions. 315 00:13:04,951 --> 00:13:06,920 I'm happy somebody's looking into it. 316 00:13:06,953 --> 00:13:12,425 I'm sad to be reliving it and angry it's still unresolved. 317 00:13:12,459 --> 00:13:16,629 It's strange that my mom worked for the justice system, right? 318 00:13:16,663 --> 00:13:20,734 And, um, she hasn't gotten any justice yet. 319 00:13:20,767 --> 00:13:23,169 And I'm holding out for that. 320 00:13:23,203 --> 00:13:24,471 - Thank you. - Hang in there, honey. 321 00:13:24,504 --> 00:13:25,772 Hang in there. 322 00:13:28,108 --> 00:13:30,810 - How are you doing today? - Doing good. 323 00:13:30,844 --> 00:13:33,146 Did you drive over here from Montgomery County? 324 00:13:33,179 --> 00:13:34,948 - Yes, I did. - Okay. 325 00:13:34,981 --> 00:13:37,684 The single most important thing in a murder is cause of death. 326 00:13:37,717 --> 00:13:39,185 Because without that, 327 00:13:39,219 --> 00:13:41,354 it makes it a lot harder to prove a murder. 328 00:13:41,388 --> 00:13:42,989 So we brought in our expert. 329 00:13:43,089 --> 00:13:45,091 Y'all don't give me easy ones. 330 00:13:45,091 --> 00:13:46,860 I know. This is the hardest one. 331 00:13:46,893 --> 00:13:48,495 I agree. 332 00:13:48,528 --> 00:13:50,330 Dr. Pinneri has reviewed the case file, 333 00:13:50,363 --> 00:13:52,599 and hopefully she can help us determine 334 00:13:52,632 --> 00:13:55,335 whether or not this is some kind of bizarre sequence 335 00:13:55,368 --> 00:13:58,104 of natural events or a murder. 336 00:13:58,138 --> 00:14:00,373 Rhonda was found face down in a wooden area 337 00:14:00,407 --> 00:14:03,043 on May 22, 2019. 338 00:14:03,043 --> 00:14:04,778 It's clear that that is where she died. 339 00:14:04,811 --> 00:14:06,946 It's clear that she died face down. 340 00:14:07,047 --> 00:14:09,215 She is fully clothed except her boots are off, 341 00:14:09,249 --> 00:14:13,720 and the socks don't really have any dirt or leaves 342 00:14:13,753 --> 00:14:16,156 or anything stuck to the bottom of them, 343 00:14:16,189 --> 00:14:19,826 which suggests that she's not walking around in her socks. 344 00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:21,561 And she's not positioned in a way 345 00:14:21,594 --> 00:14:24,230 that she just took her boots off and fell over. 346 00:14:24,264 --> 00:14:26,700 The most striking thing for this case 347 00:14:26,733 --> 00:14:28,134 is the differential decomposition. 348 00:14:28,168 --> 00:14:30,637 Her head is very decomposed, 349 00:14:30,670 --> 00:14:33,540 indicative of trauma occurring to that area. 350 00:14:33,573 --> 00:14:34,808 Which would have been the scalping. 351 00:14:34,841 --> 00:14:36,176 The exposed tissues, yes. 352 00:14:36,209 --> 00:14:38,078 So the other thing we have to think about 353 00:14:38,111 --> 00:14:40,413 is she's outdoors and could do this be an animal. 354 00:14:40,447 --> 00:14:42,749 Most of them are gonna go for what's easy to get to, 355 00:14:42,782 --> 00:14:45,318 and that's gonna be hands and feet. 356 00:14:45,352 --> 00:14:48,755 What they certainly cannot get to is the front of her face, 357 00:14:48,788 --> 00:14:51,558 and she has those sharp forced injuries 358 00:14:51,591 --> 00:14:53,760 to the front of her face. I don't see anything 359 00:14:53,793 --> 00:14:56,096 that looks like animal activity on these remains. 360 00:14:56,096 --> 00:14:58,865 There's no teeth marks. There's no claw marks. 361 00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:01,568 If the scalp would have been taken off by an animal, 362 00:15:01,601 --> 00:15:04,270 they would have taken it and gone and eaten it. 363 00:15:04,304 --> 00:15:08,208 So I don't think this trauma is postmortem animal activity. 364 00:15:08,241 --> 00:15:10,410 I hear you with "it can't be animals," 365 00:15:10,443 --> 00:15:11,845 'cause that's what I was thinking it was. 366 00:15:11,878 --> 00:15:13,613 So you rule that out. 367 00:15:13,646 --> 00:15:16,850 But if we're talking about an attempt at a scalping, 368 00:15:16,883 --> 00:15:20,120 which of these cuts are what's going on to make that happen? 369 00:15:20,153 --> 00:15:22,789 It looks like they're coming right through here. 370 00:15:22,822 --> 00:15:25,392 They describe some across the top of the head here. 371 00:15:25,425 --> 00:15:28,528 But the two deepest ones are on the back of her head. 372 00:15:28,561 --> 00:15:31,564 Do any of those rise to the level of a cause of death? 373 00:15:31,598 --> 00:15:34,567 Not for me. It's really not hard to get a scalp off. 374 00:15:34,601 --> 00:15:36,069 - It's not? - It isn't. 375 00:15:36,102 --> 00:15:38,071 We do it every day we do an autopsy. 376 00:15:38,104 --> 00:15:40,407 - It peels back easily? - It peels back easily. 377 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,076 If we're first trying to figure out cause of death, 378 00:15:43,109 --> 00:15:44,244 what would you say? 379 00:15:44,277 --> 00:15:46,279 Oh, gosh. I wish I could go back 380 00:15:46,312 --> 00:15:48,381 so I could do the autopsy myself. 381 00:15:48,415 --> 00:15:50,750 There's quite a few things I would do differently. 382 00:15:50,784 --> 00:15:53,086 Autopsy's done on the 24th. 383 00:15:53,119 --> 00:15:56,823 So two days after she's found, there's a lot of fly eggs. 384 00:15:56,856 --> 00:15:59,325 Typically when somebody's found with a bunch of fly eggs, 385 00:15:59,359 --> 00:16:01,394 you put them in a really cold cooler 386 00:16:01,428 --> 00:16:03,463 to help slow that process. 387 00:16:03,496 --> 00:16:05,565 And I don't know where she was stored, 388 00:16:05,598 --> 00:16:07,400 but the fly eggs have all hatched. 389 00:16:07,434 --> 00:16:09,235 The reason that's important 390 00:16:09,269 --> 00:16:12,272 is they're going to eat the tissue around them. 391 00:16:12,305 --> 00:16:16,343 We're not getting a good picture of what it actually looked like 392 00:16:16,376 --> 00:16:18,411 because maggots have eaten away some of it. 393 00:16:18,445 --> 00:16:23,183 Nothing is described that way to cause her to die instantly, 394 00:16:23,216 --> 00:16:25,051 like she apparently did. 395 00:16:25,051 --> 00:16:28,688 I mean, I would have to say "undetermined" unfortunately. 396 00:16:28,722 --> 00:16:31,358 We knew that the other medical examiner couldn't say for sure 397 00:16:31,391 --> 00:16:33,259 what happened to Rhonda, 398 00:16:33,293 --> 00:16:36,696 but we had no idea it was gonna be this impossible to find out. 399 00:16:36,730 --> 00:16:38,331 Had somebody who's on top of her, 400 00:16:38,365 --> 00:16:40,100 grabbed her by the head, lifted her head up, 401 00:16:40,133 --> 00:16:42,869 and start scalping her while she's face down. 402 00:16:42,902 --> 00:16:45,605 But she would have to have been incapacitated... 403 00:16:45,638 --> 00:16:48,775 You're right. Or strangled, choked out. 404 00:16:48,808 --> 00:16:51,644 But they don't describe any injuries to the neck. 405 00:16:51,678 --> 00:16:53,346 Well, you can't, because of the decomp-- 406 00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:55,181 Well, the hyoid bone, you should still be able 407 00:16:55,215 --> 00:16:58,551 to see fractures in the thyroid cartilage. 408 00:16:58,585 --> 00:17:01,021 There were no cervical spine fractures. 409 00:17:01,021 --> 00:17:03,356 "The hyoid bone, thyroid cartilage 410 00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:05,392 and cricoid cartilage were intact 411 00:17:05,425 --> 00:17:07,127 and had no fractures." 412 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,528 So, when you have this 413 00:17:08,561 --> 00:17:10,864 from the man who did the autopsy, 414 00:17:10,897 --> 00:17:13,400 that there are no injuries to this area of her body, 415 00:17:13,433 --> 00:17:16,469 y'all can't wish it into existence, 416 00:17:16,503 --> 00:17:17,837 'cause you're stuck with this. 417 00:17:17,871 --> 00:17:19,572 So, what do you think, Kelly? 418 00:17:19,606 --> 00:17:21,074 I think you're screwed, 419 00:17:21,107 --> 00:17:23,376 and I think she should've done your autopsy. 420 00:17:23,410 --> 00:17:26,312 And it's not your fault. You tried, Gary. 421 00:17:26,346 --> 00:17:28,248 When you do this job, 422 00:17:28,281 --> 00:17:30,717 you know you're gonna have times where you disagree. 423 00:17:30,750 --> 00:17:33,586 Gary disagrees with me, and I disagree with Gary. 424 00:17:33,620 --> 00:17:36,322 I'm not mad at him, and he's not mad at me. 425 00:17:36,356 --> 00:17:37,857 But where you're this far apart 426 00:17:37,891 --> 00:17:39,693 on the beginning of a murder case 427 00:17:39,726 --> 00:17:42,062 or a homicide case, which is cause of death, 428 00:17:42,062 --> 00:17:43,763 how are you gonna fix that? 429 00:17:43,797 --> 00:17:45,498 But thank you so much. It's frustrating. 430 00:17:45,532 --> 00:17:47,701 - But we appreciate it. - It's a hard one. 431 00:17:47,734 --> 00:17:48,868 You cleared up a lot. 432 00:17:48,902 --> 00:17:50,270 That's the one hurdle 433 00:17:50,303 --> 00:17:52,505 you can't ever just disregard or ignore 434 00:17:52,539 --> 00:17:54,074 or pretend like it doesn't exist. 435 00:17:54,107 --> 00:17:55,108 I don't know what we're gonna do. 436 00:17:55,141 --> 00:17:56,576 What you thinking? 437 00:17:56,609 --> 00:17:58,411 I was hoping we'd get a better answer. 438 00:17:58,445 --> 00:18:01,047 I'll say this. You still have the chance. 439 00:18:01,081 --> 00:18:03,683 You get some clean, clear... 440 00:18:03,717 --> 00:18:06,119 Not a confession. You're not gonna get that. 441 00:18:06,152 --> 00:18:08,555 ...admission or slip-up, 442 00:18:08,588 --> 00:18:10,757 you completed unknown manner and means. 443 00:18:10,790 --> 00:18:13,293 But you gotta have some big new... 444 00:18:13,326 --> 00:18:15,462 Something big and juicy might happen. 445 00:18:15,495 --> 00:18:17,030 But you gotta have it. 446 00:18:31,811 --> 00:18:33,046 The reality is, Steve, 447 00:18:33,913 --> 00:18:38,051 you had a very good appreciation of this case 448 00:18:38,051 --> 00:18:41,254 and reading between the lines way better than I did. 449 00:18:41,287 --> 00:18:42,956 My husband Sam even said, 450 00:18:43,056 --> 00:18:44,791 "So, Spingola was right and you were wrong." 451 00:18:44,824 --> 00:18:47,093 And I went, "Yep. Yep, yep, he was. He was." 452 00:18:47,127 --> 00:18:49,129 Giving you full credit, man. 453 00:18:49,162 --> 00:18:50,897 Now even Kelly believes that Rhonda was scalped 454 00:18:50,930 --> 00:18:53,133 by an individual and not an animal. 455 00:18:53,166 --> 00:18:55,268 But we can't prove how Rhonda died 456 00:18:55,301 --> 00:18:57,103 or that Robert Clary killed her. 457 00:18:57,137 --> 00:19:01,274 WOMAN: * I see the clouds are rolling in * 458 00:19:01,307 --> 00:19:03,009 How many times do you think 459 00:19:03,009 --> 00:19:04,844 these murder cases you put together are just luck? 460 00:19:04,878 --> 00:19:06,646 - That's all they are. - All the time. 461 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,249 There are times, like, we've investigated cases 462 00:19:09,282 --> 00:19:12,519 and you're so far off, you know, for months, 463 00:19:12,552 --> 00:19:14,087 and then something happens. 464 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:15,789 It's like, "Where the hell does this guy come from?" 465 00:19:15,822 --> 00:19:18,191 Maybe getting a look at where Robert discovered her body 466 00:19:18,224 --> 00:19:19,559 can help us figure out what we're missing. 467 00:19:21,461 --> 00:19:26,299 *** 468 00:19:26,332 --> 00:19:27,867 We know that the day before, 469 00:19:27,901 --> 00:19:30,036 Rhonda was looking for her lost dog, 470 00:19:30,036 --> 00:19:32,305 and she was afraid that it might have run off into the woods. 471 00:19:32,339 --> 00:19:35,275 But we also know that she was on foot, 472 00:19:35,308 --> 00:19:39,546 and she was found over 1,700 feet deep into the trail. 473 00:19:39,579 --> 00:19:41,514 Which is pretty dang far to have to walk. 474 00:19:41,548 --> 00:19:44,451 - She was just right over here. - Put a piece of paper down. 475 00:19:44,484 --> 00:19:46,353 Her head was right there. 476 00:19:46,386 --> 00:19:48,722 Steve, what do you remember seeing from the pictures 477 00:19:48,755 --> 00:19:50,223 that you thought were important? 478 00:19:50,256 --> 00:19:52,192 Well, there's no drag marks. Whatever happens, 479 00:19:52,225 --> 00:19:53,226 I think happens right here. 480 00:19:53,259 --> 00:19:56,062 Socks on. The boots are off. 481 00:19:56,062 --> 00:19:58,698 And the important thing about the socks was what, Gary? 482 00:19:58,732 --> 00:20:01,334 There's nothing on her socks. No debris. Her socks were clean. 483 00:20:01,368 --> 00:20:03,303 So, she comes this far off the trail, 484 00:20:03,336 --> 00:20:05,538 and something else happens to knock her down, 485 00:20:05,572 --> 00:20:07,007 to be prone on the ground. 486 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,475 When I came out here, 487 00:20:08,508 --> 00:20:10,477 I was already looking for broken branches. 488 00:20:10,510 --> 00:20:13,880 I was looking for anything that would show a struggle, 489 00:20:13,913 --> 00:20:15,315 and I didn't see anything. 490 00:20:15,348 --> 00:20:17,751 There's no injuries to her legs, her arms. 491 00:20:17,784 --> 00:20:19,185 Just the head injuries. 492 00:20:19,219 --> 00:20:20,653 When I rolled her over, 493 00:20:20,687 --> 00:20:24,024 her face was completely just mutilated. 494 00:20:24,057 --> 00:20:25,725 I mean, I was horrified. 495 00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:29,329 SIEGLER: And the report says it's 1,791... 496 00:20:29,362 --> 00:20:31,064 - Something like that. Yeah. - ...feet. 497 00:20:31,097 --> 00:20:33,333 That's a long way in the shape she was in. 498 00:20:33,366 --> 00:20:35,435 But I think a healthy person 499 00:20:35,468 --> 00:20:37,437 wouldn't have walked this far into the woods. 500 00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:39,673 This dog ain't coming back this far. 501 00:20:39,706 --> 00:20:41,107 You don't think the dogs would come back here, huh? 502 00:20:41,141 --> 00:20:43,209 - No way. - Hmm. 503 00:20:43,243 --> 00:20:47,013 SIEGLER: Robert Clary rode around the woods on his ATV 504 00:20:47,047 --> 00:20:49,249 and helped Rhonda look for her dog. 505 00:20:49,282 --> 00:20:51,685 But according to him, he never gave her a ride. 506 00:20:51,718 --> 00:20:53,319 So, how did she get out here? 507 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,929 How you doing? I'm Gary Sharpen. 508 00:21:02,962 --> 00:21:04,931 I'm the lead detective on this. 509 00:21:04,964 --> 00:21:07,200 I'm doing good. Thank you. How about yourself? 510 00:21:07,233 --> 00:21:10,103 Dr. Dean De Crisce is a forensics psychiatrist 511 00:21:10,136 --> 00:21:13,073 and an expert in criminal sexual offenders. 512 00:21:13,106 --> 00:21:15,408 We've asked him for his insight 513 00:21:15,442 --> 00:21:18,378 on what type of suspect would scalp his victim. 514 00:21:18,411 --> 00:21:20,413 And we wanna see if he has anything 515 00:21:20,447 --> 00:21:22,716 that aligns with what we know about Robert Clary. 516 00:21:22,749 --> 00:21:27,320 Usually, there is two different types of mutilation. 517 00:21:27,354 --> 00:21:28,988 One is instrumental. 518 00:21:29,089 --> 00:21:32,225 The offender is trying to dismember the body 519 00:21:32,258 --> 00:21:35,095 to obscure the crime to get rid of the evidence 520 00:21:35,128 --> 00:21:37,831 without any particular emotional investment. 521 00:21:37,864 --> 00:21:39,833 And then the other type 522 00:21:39,866 --> 00:21:42,235 would be somebody doing it for gratification, 523 00:21:42,268 --> 00:21:46,006 either because of extreme levels of hate and rage 524 00:21:46,106 --> 00:21:48,408 or a sexual motivation. 525 00:21:48,441 --> 00:21:50,343 From what I could tell, 526 00:21:50,377 --> 00:21:53,113 it doesn't look like there was any attempt to hide the body. 527 00:21:53,146 --> 00:21:56,850 So it's more likely that it was because of a sexual motivation 528 00:21:56,883 --> 00:21:59,119 or extreme anger. 529 00:21:59,152 --> 00:22:01,621 Individuals that do this type of thing, 530 00:22:01,654 --> 00:22:05,759 they're likely to have a prior sexual offense history. 531 00:22:05,792 --> 00:22:09,262 Usually offenders will escalate over time. 532 00:22:09,295 --> 00:22:13,933 They may have done a rape before or an assault on a woman before, 533 00:22:13,967 --> 00:22:16,169 and then, you know, they work their way up 534 00:22:16,202 --> 00:22:18,772 to some offense of this level. 535 00:22:18,805 --> 00:22:21,541 And it's likely that they knew the victim. 536 00:22:21,574 --> 00:22:25,645 It's very odd to me that they left the scalp there. 537 00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:28,948 Sexual sadists are known 538 00:22:28,982 --> 00:22:32,152 to frequently take trophies of their killings. 539 00:22:32,185 --> 00:22:33,820 To me, that's probably 540 00:22:33,853 --> 00:22:36,456 what the person was likely trying to do. 541 00:22:36,489 --> 00:22:40,527 The fact that the boots were removed from the victim 542 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,897 made me think that perhaps the perpetrator 543 00:22:43,930 --> 00:22:46,733 had in intention to undress the victim. 544 00:22:46,766 --> 00:22:48,401 And maybe they were interrupted. 545 00:22:48,435 --> 00:22:50,804 They heard a sound or something like that. 546 00:22:50,837 --> 00:22:52,639 Some of this sounds like Robert Clary. 547 00:22:52,672 --> 00:22:54,808 I appreciate your time. Thanks a lot. 548 00:22:54,841 --> 00:22:57,110 I hope I've been at least somewhat helpful. 549 00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:58,912 SIEGLER: He is a convicted sex offender, 550 00:22:58,945 --> 00:23:01,715 but if Robert Clary wanted a trophy, 551 00:23:01,748 --> 00:23:04,351 he had all the time in the world to take it 552 00:23:04,384 --> 00:23:06,152 because he's the one who found her. 553 00:23:06,186 --> 00:23:09,155 He did characterize a lot of who Robert is. 554 00:23:09,189 --> 00:23:10,590 He was familiar with her. 555 00:23:10,623 --> 00:23:13,093 He does have a prior sexual offense history. 556 00:23:13,126 --> 00:23:15,428 Remember that Robert Clary is the one 557 00:23:15,462 --> 00:23:19,366 who talked to you, talked to the polygrapher. 558 00:23:19,399 --> 00:23:22,335 He signed a consent to let you search his four-wheeler 559 00:23:22,369 --> 00:23:23,770 and his house. 560 00:23:23,803 --> 00:23:25,605 He offered up his DNA. 561 00:23:25,638 --> 00:23:28,708 He's the one who led you back to her body. 562 00:23:28,742 --> 00:23:29,843 True. 563 00:23:29,876 --> 00:23:31,344 It doesn't make sense. 564 00:23:31,378 --> 00:23:33,246 - It doesn't go together. - True. 565 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:35,081 I appreciate the doctor's insight, 566 00:23:35,081 --> 00:23:37,450 but to me, this is all speculation, 567 00:23:37,484 --> 00:23:39,119 and it's not as damning 568 00:23:39,152 --> 00:23:40,720 as everybody in the room wants it to be 569 00:23:40,754 --> 00:23:41,955 'cause it's not admissible. 570 00:23:41,988 --> 00:23:44,224 I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, 571 00:23:44,257 --> 00:23:47,594 why can't someone high on meth who's mad 572 00:23:47,627 --> 00:23:50,096 be more logically consistent with this 573 00:23:50,096 --> 00:23:52,098 than possibly Robert Clary? 574 00:23:52,132 --> 00:23:53,700 - True. - I don't know. 575 00:24:07,947 --> 00:24:09,916 Okay, So, Eric Devlin specializes 576 00:24:11,051 --> 00:24:13,353 in cellphone forensics, and that's what he loves to do. 577 00:24:13,386 --> 00:24:15,855 He's our expert that we bring whenever we have a case, 578 00:24:15,889 --> 00:24:17,524 especially one as young as yours is. 579 00:24:17,557 --> 00:24:18,625 It's only three years old, right? 580 00:24:18,658 --> 00:24:20,493 - Right. - Let me go get him. 581 00:24:20,527 --> 00:24:22,629 Rhonda Richardson's case is about as fresh 582 00:24:22,662 --> 00:24:24,164 as a cold case can get, 583 00:24:24,197 --> 00:24:26,533 which hopefully means we can catch a break 584 00:24:26,566 --> 00:24:29,469 analyzing her cellphone and Robert Clary's. 585 00:24:29,502 --> 00:24:30,637 - All right. - Take off. 586 00:24:30,670 --> 00:24:32,339 - You ready? - Take it away. 587 00:24:32,372 --> 00:24:34,841 We know that they exchanged a few phone calls 588 00:24:34,874 --> 00:24:38,978 before her death on May 21st, which Robert has admitted to. 589 00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:40,780 But what we wanna know is 590 00:24:40,814 --> 00:24:43,950 if their phones recorded any other useful information. 591 00:24:43,983 --> 00:24:46,486 So, in this particular case, I got a bunch of devices. 592 00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:48,488 First one we're gonna talk about is the Apple iPhone 593 00:24:48,521 --> 00:24:50,390 belonging to Rhonda Richardson. 594 00:24:50,423 --> 00:24:51,658 It's the one recovered at the scene. 595 00:24:51,691 --> 00:24:53,526 I was asked to focus on the activity sensors. 596 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,096 What these activity sensors are set to do 597 00:24:56,096 --> 00:24:59,099 is every hour it updates how much you've walked, 598 00:24:59,099 --> 00:25:00,900 stepped, or moved in the last hour. 599 00:25:00,934 --> 00:25:03,903 I looked specifically for 5-21 through 5-22. 600 00:25:03,937 --> 00:25:06,072 The last of the phone moving around 601 00:25:06,106 --> 00:25:08,141 is at 2:00 p.m. 602 00:25:08,174 --> 00:25:10,377 Rhonda was spotted looking for her lost dog 603 00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:12,045 at 11:00 a.m. 604 00:25:12,078 --> 00:25:14,047 According to her phone motion sensors, 605 00:25:14,047 --> 00:25:15,648 she stopped taking steps in the woods 606 00:25:15,682 --> 00:25:17,417 between 1:00 and 2:00 p.m., 607 00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:19,686 which leads us to believe that's our murder window. 608 00:25:19,719 --> 00:25:22,389 It's also right before Robert claims he left the woods 609 00:25:22,422 --> 00:25:23,757 and drove home. 610 00:25:23,790 --> 00:25:26,059 Turning on to Robert Clary's phone-- 611 00:25:26,092 --> 00:25:28,528 This is the one obtained by the search warrant from his trailer. 612 00:25:28,561 --> 00:25:30,663 Here's what I did find that was gonna be interesting to y'all. 613 00:25:30,697 --> 00:25:32,198 Location analysis. 614 00:25:32,232 --> 00:25:33,867 These are actually the GPS points 615 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:36,236 that I actually pulled from the physical phone itself. 616 00:25:36,269 --> 00:25:39,839 This is 5-21-2019 at 4:36 p.m. 617 00:25:39,873 --> 00:25:41,274 He's hitting right here, 618 00:25:41,307 --> 00:25:42,842 which appears to be where the trail starts. 619 00:25:42,876 --> 00:25:45,078 - On the 21st. - On the 21st. 620 00:25:45,078 --> 00:25:47,747 This one's the 4:35. This one's the 4:36. 621 00:25:47,781 --> 00:25:51,551 He is heading in that direction. 622 00:25:51,584 --> 00:25:54,087 - It's right on the trail. - It's right on the trail. 623 00:25:54,087 --> 00:25:56,122 He's saying he went home, but now his phone 624 00:25:56,156 --> 00:26:00,026 is showing GPS at 4:36 p.m. on the trail. 625 00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:03,697 SIEGLER: Robert said he returned to his home around 2:00 p.m. 626 00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:07,567 But his phone was on the trail at 4:35 and 4:36 627 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,469 going toward his house. 628 00:26:09,502 --> 00:26:11,237 That's a big difference. 629 00:26:11,271 --> 00:26:14,040 So, was he really out there in the woods the whole time. 630 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,476 Did he go home and then come back to the woods? 631 00:26:16,509 --> 00:26:18,278 And why did he have to lie? 632 00:26:18,311 --> 00:26:20,447 That's the best new thing we've heard all day. 633 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,249 That's enough for me to say, "Hey, explain this." 634 00:26:23,283 --> 00:26:25,051 - Yes, it is. - Now, this might be 635 00:26:25,051 --> 00:26:26,419 when he's coming back from scalping her. 636 00:26:26,453 --> 00:26:27,587 Exactly. 637 00:26:27,620 --> 00:26:29,422 DEVLIN: You know we're not done. 638 00:26:29,456 --> 00:26:30,824 There's an interesting thing I'm gonna show you. 639 00:26:30,857 --> 00:26:32,826 So, what you have here is this is 5-22. 640 00:26:32,859 --> 00:26:34,594 There you go. 641 00:26:34,627 --> 00:26:36,329 There is the thumbnails 642 00:26:36,363 --> 00:26:38,331 for the pictures of the body that he took. 643 00:26:38,365 --> 00:26:40,066 You see a whole bunch of 'em here. 644 00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:41,968 3:47. 645 00:26:42,068 --> 00:26:44,337 And then you have a whole bunch of them starting over at 7:48. 646 00:26:44,371 --> 00:26:46,573 They're the same photos, but he deleted them 647 00:26:46,606 --> 00:26:49,476 somewhere between the time he took it at 3:47. 648 00:26:49,509 --> 00:26:52,278 He appeared to reload those photographs 649 00:26:52,312 --> 00:26:54,414 at 7:48 p.m. and then deletes 'em again. 650 00:26:54,447 --> 00:26:56,182 I found that to be weird. 651 00:26:56,216 --> 00:26:58,084 - SIEGLER: On Wednesday. - On Wednesday. 652 00:26:58,084 --> 00:27:00,353 SPINGOLA: We know Robert took photographs of Rhonda's body 653 00:27:00,387 --> 00:27:03,790 at about 3:30 p.m. as his nephew called 911. 654 00:27:03,823 --> 00:27:05,759 An officer had Robert delete them. 655 00:27:05,792 --> 00:27:07,260 That's already kind of strange. 656 00:27:07,293 --> 00:27:08,695 But it looks like Robert 657 00:27:08,728 --> 00:27:10,530 actually downloaded those photographs again 658 00:27:10,563 --> 00:27:13,800 from the cloud and back onto his phone later that night. 659 00:27:13,833 --> 00:27:15,602 Could Robert have been looking at those photographs 660 00:27:15,635 --> 00:27:17,037 and viewing them as a trophy? 661 00:27:17,070 --> 00:27:19,773 Piece by piece, we're putting this together. 662 00:27:19,806 --> 00:27:23,143 This is definitely a dagger in his story. 663 00:27:30,216 --> 00:27:32,218 - Jacen's over here? - Yeah. That black truck. 664 00:27:32,252 --> 00:27:33,887 So he should be home. 665 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,322 When Robert Clary found Rhonda's body in the woods, 666 00:27:36,356 --> 00:27:39,192 he immediately drove to his nephew Jacen's house, 667 00:27:39,225 --> 00:27:41,294 picked him up and took him to see the body. 668 00:27:41,327 --> 00:27:43,730 And it was Jacen who called 911 at that time. 669 00:27:43,763 --> 00:27:46,399 Hey, Jacen. How's it going, brother? 670 00:27:46,433 --> 00:27:48,301 We're wondering if Robert's actions 671 00:27:48,335 --> 00:27:50,837 seemed as strange to Jacen as they do to us. 672 00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:53,206 I wish you all just take his ass to jail, get it over with. 673 00:27:53,239 --> 00:27:54,507 Tell me why. 674 00:27:54,541 --> 00:27:56,676 The day that all that [bleep] happened, 675 00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:58,378 I was in the driveway right here, 676 00:27:58,411 --> 00:28:00,013 and he came up on his four-wheeler. 677 00:28:00,013 --> 00:28:02,215 My other brother across the road was over here helping me. 678 00:28:02,248 --> 00:28:03,717 And he said, "Hey, I found a body." 679 00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:04,818 And he got on his four-wheeler with him. 680 00:28:04,851 --> 00:28:05,885 And his first comment to me 681 00:28:05,919 --> 00:28:07,220 when we got away from everybody 682 00:28:07,253 --> 00:28:09,589 was, "Don't tell them I came down here. 683 00:28:09,622 --> 00:28:11,324 Don't tell nobody that I was down here." 684 00:28:11,358 --> 00:28:12,692 And I'm like, "Bull[bleep]." 685 00:28:12,726 --> 00:28:15,595 Wait a second. He--He--He said that? 686 00:28:15,628 --> 00:28:17,764 Yeah. For me not to tell anybody 687 00:28:17,797 --> 00:28:19,199 that he was down there I found the body. 688 00:28:19,232 --> 00:28:20,734 Tell 'em I found it. 689 00:28:20,767 --> 00:28:22,402 And I was like, "No, I'm not doing that." 690 00:28:22,435 --> 00:28:24,604 You thought that it was odd that he didn't call the cops? 691 00:28:24,637 --> 00:28:27,607 I did. As soon as we pulled up and I seen it was a body, 692 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,211 I immediately walked away and called the police department. 693 00:28:31,244 --> 00:28:33,046 - What was Robert doing? - He got off 694 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:34,547 and was walking around the body and taking pictures. 695 00:28:34,581 --> 00:28:36,216 Why in the [bleep] would anybody 696 00:28:36,249 --> 00:28:38,418 in their right mind take a picture of something like that? 697 00:28:38,451 --> 00:28:40,553 I don't wanna remember something like that. 698 00:28:40,587 --> 00:28:44,591 He told me that they had had a couple of conversations before 699 00:28:44,624 --> 00:28:46,593 and that he was texting her. 700 00:28:46,626 --> 00:28:48,294 Did he seem like he was interested in her? 701 00:28:48,328 --> 00:28:51,398 Yes. She wasn't necessarily the same. 702 00:28:51,431 --> 00:28:53,600 So, she was rejecting him. 703 00:28:53,633 --> 00:28:55,702 Would you say--Would you say- Would you use that word? 704 00:28:55,735 --> 00:28:56,736 Would you use that word? Rejection. 705 00:28:56,770 --> 00:28:58,138 - Yes. - Okay. 706 00:28:58,171 --> 00:29:00,006 Did he ever tell you he was attracted to her? 707 00:29:00,006 --> 00:29:01,808 He made sexual comments towards her. 708 00:29:01,841 --> 00:29:03,243 And we were having a family function, 709 00:29:03,276 --> 00:29:04,611 and there was probably 30 people here, 710 00:29:04,644 --> 00:29:06,046 and he started making sexual comments 711 00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:07,714 about what he'd do to her. 712 00:29:07,747 --> 00:29:10,050 - What's he saying? - I would eat her [bleep]. 713 00:29:10,083 --> 00:29:11,618 And he said it to her. 714 00:29:11,651 --> 00:29:13,453 "She's single. I'm single. We can hook up. 715 00:29:13,486 --> 00:29:15,722 She already knows what's a prisoner like." 716 00:29:15,755 --> 00:29:17,557 And he knew a lot more than what he's saying he did. 717 00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:19,025 Okay. 718 00:29:19,025 --> 00:29:20,794 Robert was sexually attracted to Rhonda, 719 00:29:20,827 --> 00:29:23,029 and that changes everything in this case. 720 00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:25,065 Even Robert's own nephew believes his was involved 721 00:29:25,098 --> 00:29:27,100 in the homicide based on his strange behavior. 722 00:29:36,943 --> 00:29:38,445 SHARPEN: I appreciate it. 723 00:29:42,482 --> 00:29:44,150 Wait until Kelly hears this. 724 00:29:44,184 --> 00:29:46,853 Him telling Jacen, 725 00:29:46,886 --> 00:29:49,422 "Hey, don't tell them I was the one that found her." 726 00:30:03,737 --> 00:30:05,071 I came into this case 727 00:30:05,939 --> 00:30:08,975 thinking that Robert Clary didn't do it, 728 00:30:09,009 --> 00:30:11,578 and I've completely change my mind. 729 00:30:11,611 --> 00:30:14,147 Yesterday, you got a true read 730 00:30:14,180 --> 00:30:16,750 on how his own people think about him. 731 00:30:16,783 --> 00:30:18,518 I was wrong. 732 00:30:18,551 --> 00:30:20,687 I'll tell you this much, though, we ever have to go to war 733 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,355 with someone super criminal, 734 00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:24,257 I'm taking you over every other D.A. I've ever had. 735 00:30:24,290 --> 00:30:25,525 Well, that was sweet. 736 00:30:25,558 --> 00:30:28,194 After talking to Robert Clary's nephew, 737 00:30:28,228 --> 00:30:30,463 it's clear that the sheriff's department and Steve 738 00:30:30,497 --> 00:30:32,365 were right about Robert Clary. 739 00:30:32,399 --> 00:30:34,668 I'm finally convinced he's involved. 740 00:30:34,701 --> 00:30:37,470 So, we still have a problem with cause of death, 741 00:30:37,504 --> 00:30:41,274 but with Devlin's cellphone information 742 00:30:41,307 --> 00:30:43,710 and the beautiful new piece that you got yesterday, 743 00:30:43,743 --> 00:30:45,311 that's huge. 744 00:30:45,345 --> 00:30:47,681 The law in Texas allows you in a case like this 745 00:30:47,714 --> 00:30:50,684 where you have an unknown cause of death 746 00:30:50,717 --> 00:30:53,787 to file it as an unknown manner and means, 747 00:30:53,820 --> 00:30:56,189 which is what would need to happen in this case. 748 00:30:56,222 --> 00:30:58,358 Let's split up and go hit the neighborhood, 749 00:30:58,391 --> 00:30:59,893 and let's go knock 'em out. 750 00:30:59,926 --> 00:31:02,228 If we believe that Robert killed Rhonda, 751 00:31:02,262 --> 00:31:04,898 it would be great to try and get more evidence. 752 00:31:04,931 --> 00:31:08,635 An admission would be wonderful. A confession would be a miracle. 753 00:31:08,668 --> 00:31:10,136 Or finding some other witness 754 00:31:10,170 --> 00:31:12,172 that knows some other little piece of the story 755 00:31:12,205 --> 00:31:14,207 would be beautiful new pieces of evidence to try and find. 756 00:31:18,244 --> 00:31:20,480 I thought about this for hours last night, 757 00:31:20,513 --> 00:31:23,350 and I want him to explain his story again 758 00:31:23,383 --> 00:31:24,984 in that time line. 759 00:31:25,085 --> 00:31:27,587 Right up here. 760 00:31:27,620 --> 00:31:29,189 That him there? 761 00:31:29,222 --> 00:31:31,091 SHARPEN: That's him right there, dude. 762 00:31:31,091 --> 00:31:32,826 It's time we talked to Robert Clary. 763 00:31:32,859 --> 00:31:34,094 - Hey, Robert. - Hey. 764 00:31:34,127 --> 00:31:36,696 - How's it going? - It's going. 765 00:31:36,730 --> 00:31:38,865 SPINGOLA: We have questions about his strange behavior 766 00:31:38,898 --> 00:31:40,734 and movements that day. 767 00:31:40,767 --> 00:31:42,836 Will he deny it or come up with a new story? 768 00:31:42,869 --> 00:31:45,338 SHARPEN: We wanna figure out what happened to Rhonda. 769 00:31:45,372 --> 00:31:46,606 I have no idea. 770 00:31:46,639 --> 00:31:48,608 I gave my statement to you, 771 00:31:48,641 --> 00:31:50,877 and that's all I have to say about it. 772 00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:53,546 I never knew the woman. All I know is she's the woman 773 00:31:53,580 --> 00:31:55,248 that looks for her dog all the time. 774 00:31:55,281 --> 00:31:57,784 We know that you were with her the day before you found her. 775 00:31:57,817 --> 00:32:01,087 She was walking back and forth right here on the road 776 00:32:01,121 --> 00:32:03,456 just screaming out there for them dogs. 777 00:32:03,490 --> 00:32:05,959 She's the one that says, "I don't go in them woods. 778 00:32:06,059 --> 00:32:09,095 Would you mind going in there? I'm looking for my dog." 779 00:32:09,129 --> 00:32:11,064 So I went in there and looked for him. 780 00:32:11,064 --> 00:32:12,365 SPINGOLA: You never gave her a ride down into the woods? 781 00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:14,134 CLARY: Nope. 782 00:32:14,167 --> 00:32:15,802 SPINGOLA: Do you remember when you left the woods that day? 783 00:32:15,835 --> 00:32:17,771 Was she still out there or did she come out with you? 784 00:32:17,804 --> 00:32:19,539 She never was in the woods. 785 00:32:19,572 --> 00:32:22,375 She says she's going home and get her something to drink 786 00:32:22,409 --> 00:32:24,644 and she might come out and look for the dog later. 787 00:32:24,678 --> 00:32:26,646 SHARPEN: And you never went back out there? 788 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,915 And you're sure of that? 789 00:32:28,948 --> 00:32:31,551 - Yeah. - Take a look at this, Robert. 790 00:32:31,584 --> 00:32:34,320 Can you explain this? This is your cellphone. 791 00:32:34,354 --> 00:32:35,889 SPINGOLA: That shows you you're walking 792 00:32:35,922 --> 00:32:38,091 up and down that trail later in the afternoon. 793 00:32:38,091 --> 00:32:41,094 SHARPEN: But you told us earlier that you weren't back out there. 794 00:32:41,127 --> 00:32:44,497 CLARY: Not that I can recall that I was out there at all. 795 00:32:44,531 --> 00:32:46,599 SHARPEN: This does not make sense. 796 00:32:46,633 --> 00:32:48,568 It doesn't make no sense to me either. 797 00:32:48,601 --> 00:32:50,737 SPINGOLA: Did you call her when you were out there? 798 00:32:50,770 --> 00:32:52,605 No. I don't have her phone number. 799 00:32:52,639 --> 00:32:54,240 You don't have her phone number. 800 00:32:54,274 --> 00:32:55,742 No. Uh-uh. No. 801 00:32:55,775 --> 00:32:58,144 SHARPEN: Obviously we know you called her. 802 00:32:58,178 --> 00:33:00,480 - We know you talked to her. - SPINGOLA: In the woods. 803 00:33:00,513 --> 00:33:02,682 No, I didn't call her and talk to her. 804 00:33:02,716 --> 00:33:06,286 SHARPEN: Cellphone technology doesn't lie. 805 00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:08,455 I'm not surprised that he has no explanation 806 00:33:08,488 --> 00:33:10,457 for why his telephone was up and down that trail 807 00:33:10,490 --> 00:33:12,125 later than he initially reported it. 808 00:33:12,158 --> 00:33:14,427 But now he's denying even calling Rhonda, 809 00:33:14,461 --> 00:33:15,862 which he admitted before. 810 00:33:15,895 --> 00:33:18,064 I think that's the panic in him talking. 811 00:33:18,064 --> 00:33:20,834 SPINGOLA: You found the body the next day, on a Wednesday. 812 00:33:20,867 --> 00:33:23,203 Yeah. I thought it was a man laying there. 813 00:33:23,236 --> 00:33:26,806 SPINGOLA: Why not just call 911 and report that? 814 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,143 'Cause I was freaking out. I'm going, "That's Eddie." 815 00:33:30,176 --> 00:33:33,213 I wanted to go get somebody that--I thought it was him. 816 00:33:33,246 --> 00:33:34,848 He might be dying in there. 817 00:33:34,881 --> 00:33:36,483 SPINGOLA: Did you check on that body? 818 00:33:36,516 --> 00:33:38,318 No, no, no. I didn't get off the phone. 819 00:33:38,351 --> 00:33:39,853 I'm not gonna get off my phone 820 00:33:39,886 --> 00:33:42,088 with a body laying there in the woods. 821 00:33:42,088 --> 00:33:44,891 But you went back with Jacen and took pictures of the body. 822 00:33:44,924 --> 00:33:47,227 I said, "Well, let me take a picture 823 00:33:47,260 --> 00:33:51,564 and give to the--911-- the police when they get here. 824 00:33:51,598 --> 00:33:54,100 And they said, "No, you don't need them on your phone." 825 00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:56,102 And so you just deleted them once? 826 00:33:56,102 --> 00:33:57,537 - Yeah. - Did you ever pull 'em back up 827 00:33:57,570 --> 00:33:58,905 and look at 'em? 828 00:33:58,938 --> 00:34:00,073 - No. - No. 829 00:34:00,106 --> 00:34:02,042 I wouldn't even do that. 830 00:34:02,042 --> 00:34:04,344 We know that those photos were downloaded onto Robert's phone, 831 00:34:04,377 --> 00:34:06,179 just like we know he called her, 832 00:34:06,212 --> 00:34:08,415 just like we know that Robert's story is full of holes. 833 00:34:08,448 --> 00:34:09,816 SHARPEN: What you're saying to me 834 00:34:09,849 --> 00:34:13,186 and what we have with the technology and the data 835 00:34:13,219 --> 00:34:14,587 doesn't add up. 836 00:34:14,621 --> 00:34:16,089 SPINGOLA: Tell us what happened out there. 837 00:34:16,122 --> 00:34:19,359 Did you just go out there and cut the skullcap off? 838 00:34:19,392 --> 00:34:20,727 - Is that-- - What? 839 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,897 Golly. That is ridiculous. No. 840 00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:26,533 You're barking up the wrong tree far as I'm concerned. 841 00:34:26,566 --> 00:34:27,901 If you don't believe what I'm saying, 842 00:34:27,934 --> 00:34:29,669 there's no sense in me talking to you. 843 00:34:29,703 --> 00:34:31,538 SPINGOLA: All right. I'm just telling you, 844 00:34:31,571 --> 00:34:34,607 you haven't convinced me of anything. Have a nice day. 845 00:34:34,641 --> 00:34:36,343 SPINGOLA: Anytime you can get a suspect 846 00:34:36,376 --> 00:34:39,079 to contradict the evidence in a case, it's a big win. 847 00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:41,181 and that's was a big "W" for us right there. 848 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,522 All right. Then our next one are David Talbert. 849 00:34:49,556 --> 00:34:51,858 SIEGLER: We held off on talking to Rhonda's neighbors 850 00:34:51,891 --> 00:34:53,760 because we didn't want Robert Clary to know 851 00:34:53,793 --> 00:34:55,695 that we were reopening the case. 852 00:34:55,729 --> 00:34:58,131 But now that Robert knows that we're doing this, 853 00:34:58,164 --> 00:35:00,600 we're headed to talk to one of Rhonda's old neighbors, 854 00:35:00,633 --> 00:35:02,035 David Talbert. 855 00:35:02,035 --> 00:35:04,571 Hello. We're looking for David Talbert. 856 00:35:04,604 --> 00:35:06,406 - You looking for David? - Uh-huh. 857 00:35:06,439 --> 00:35:07,807 - He's down below. - Okay. 858 00:35:07,841 --> 00:35:09,542 - Are you a Talbert, too? - I'm James Talbert. 859 00:35:09,576 --> 00:35:12,278 James Talbert. Okay. And David is your brother? 860 00:35:12,312 --> 00:35:14,914 - David. Yeah. He's down there. - To make sure we're thorough, 861 00:35:14,948 --> 00:35:17,117 Mr. Talbert, we're out here talking to everybody 862 00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:19,052 that might have any information 863 00:35:19,052 --> 00:35:20,553 when Rhonda Richardson got found murdered. 864 00:35:20,587 --> 00:35:22,622 I worked with her in the prison. 865 00:35:22,655 --> 00:35:25,225 Oh, wow. We didn't know you worked with her. 866 00:35:25,258 --> 00:35:28,561 Instead of David, we found his brother James 867 00:35:28,595 --> 00:35:30,663 Who wasn't even on our list. 868 00:35:30,697 --> 00:35:32,832 Fortunately, he knew Rhonda, too. 869 00:35:32,866 --> 00:35:34,167 The day I think that this happened... 870 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,069 Tuesday. 871 00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:38,838 Yeah. I saw her right here, and she was looking for her dog. 872 00:35:38,872 --> 00:35:41,775 She told us, "I haven't seen him or heard anything." 873 00:35:41,808 --> 00:35:45,078 She got ready to go back in the woods, and Robert showed up. 874 00:35:45,078 --> 00:35:46,513 SIEGLER: You're talking about Robert Clary. 875 00:35:46,546 --> 00:35:47,547 JAMES: Yeah. He was riding his four-wheeler. 876 00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:50,483 And he'd already, a couple of days before that, 877 00:35:50,517 --> 00:35:52,085 had trouble with her and her dog, 878 00:35:52,085 --> 00:35:54,120 saying that they were coming down his place 879 00:35:54,154 --> 00:35:57,424 and he would kill 'em if they ever come back to her place. 880 00:35:57,457 --> 00:35:58,625 - How do you know that? - He said it. 881 00:35:58,658 --> 00:36:00,460 Everyone heard him say that. 882 00:36:00,493 --> 00:36:02,595 Heard Robert say that he would do what? 883 00:36:02,629 --> 00:36:04,664 He would kill the dogs. He didn't say mess with her. 884 00:36:04,698 --> 00:36:06,800 Robert is running up and down here with his four-wheeler. 885 00:36:06,833 --> 00:36:08,835 He stopped to talked to her, 886 00:36:08,868 --> 00:36:11,371 and I heard him say, "I'll help you find your dog." 887 00:36:11,404 --> 00:36:13,106 She got on the back of his four-wheeler 888 00:36:13,139 --> 00:36:14,341 and they rode that way. 889 00:36:14,374 --> 00:36:15,542 That was the last time I saw them. 890 00:36:15,575 --> 00:36:17,043 - Okay, time-out. - What time was this? 891 00:36:17,043 --> 00:36:19,446 Slow down. The last time you see Rhonda, 892 00:36:19,479 --> 00:36:21,648 she's on the bike of Robert Clary's four-wheeler. 893 00:36:21,681 --> 00:36:24,284 She got on the four-wheeler right at that trail. 894 00:36:24,317 --> 00:36:26,820 She was facing me, sitting on the back of his four-wheeler. 895 00:36:26,853 --> 00:36:29,356 - SHEIKH: What time was this? - Between 12:30, 1:00. 896 00:36:29,389 --> 00:36:31,057 My financial adviser was running late. 897 00:36:31,057 --> 00:36:32,525 He said he'd be here at 12:00. 898 00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:34,527 That's how you remember the time so well. 899 00:36:34,561 --> 00:36:37,297 My financial adviser was here by 1:00. 900 00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:39,065 She was on the back of his four-wheeler 901 00:36:39,099 --> 00:36:41,067 and went that away, and that's the last time I saw her. 902 00:36:41,101 --> 00:36:42,669 Oh, my God. 903 00:36:42,702 --> 00:36:45,071 We just stumbled on an eyewitness 904 00:36:45,071 --> 00:36:48,208 who knew Robert was mad at Rhonda 905 00:36:48,241 --> 00:36:52,412 and gave her a ride on his ATV 906 00:36:52,445 --> 00:36:56,416 within an hour of when we believed Rhonda was killed. 907 00:36:56,449 --> 00:36:58,718 That's how she got out in those woods 908 00:36:58,752 --> 00:37:01,354 and maybe part of why he killed her. 909 00:37:01,388 --> 00:37:03,056 - Wow. - Oh, my God. 910 00:37:03,089 --> 00:37:04,858 - Thank God. - We just solved the whole case 911 00:37:04,891 --> 00:37:06,359 and figured out everything. 912 00:37:06,393 --> 00:37:08,361 That never happens. 913 00:37:08,395 --> 00:37:12,032 12:30 to 1:00, and he even knows why he's got the time right. 914 00:37:12,032 --> 00:37:14,668 He sees Rhonda on the back of the four-wheeler. 915 00:37:14,701 --> 00:37:16,870 Looking at him backwards, and she drives down the road. 916 00:37:16,903 --> 00:37:18,438 SHEIKH: We're so lucky he was even here. 917 00:37:18,471 --> 00:37:19,939 SIEGLER: Oh, my God. He's not even the right Talbert 918 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,541 that just happens to answer the door. 919 00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:34,654 - SIEGLER: Double trouble, Rob. - Hello, Kelly. 920 00:37:35,055 --> 00:37:36,423 Double trouble. 921 00:37:36,456 --> 00:37:38,124 - Hi, Steve. - How you doing? How are you? 922 00:37:38,158 --> 00:37:39,559 Good to see you. 923 00:37:39,592 --> 00:37:41,094 I never thought we would get here, 924 00:37:41,127 --> 00:37:43,229 but we are confident that we have built 925 00:37:43,263 --> 00:37:45,465 a great circumstantial evidence case 926 00:37:45,498 --> 00:37:47,467 in the murder of Rhonda Richardson. 927 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:49,302 I think we're ready to run it all down to y'all. 928 00:37:49,336 --> 00:37:51,638 - Absolutely. - I gotta say, Rob, 929 00:37:51,671 --> 00:37:53,306 you've never heard me say this before. 930 00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:54,908 I was wrong. 931 00:37:54,941 --> 00:37:58,144 I came into this case thinking it was an animal. 932 00:37:58,178 --> 00:37:59,813 My heatstroke theory 933 00:37:59,846 --> 00:38:02,782 Dr. Pinneri pretty much shot down like that. 934 00:38:02,816 --> 00:38:05,051 There's no teeth marks. There's no claw marks. 935 00:38:05,085 --> 00:38:06,553 I don't see anything 936 00:38:06,586 --> 00:38:08,621 that looks like animal activity on these remains. 937 00:38:08,655 --> 00:38:10,757 So, everybody in the room is clear 938 00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:12,659 with marking this off the board forevermore? 939 00:38:12,692 --> 00:38:14,627 - Yep. - Okay. 940 00:38:14,661 --> 00:38:18,064 Okay. So, then Robert Clary. 941 00:38:18,098 --> 00:38:20,734 So, Robert was the person that found her, 942 00:38:20,767 --> 00:38:23,403 but he denied that he actually was on the trail with her. 943 00:38:23,436 --> 00:38:25,605 She was walking back and forth 944 00:38:25,638 --> 00:38:28,041 and screaming out there for them dogs. 945 00:38:28,041 --> 00:38:29,042 You never gave her a ride down into the woods? 946 00:38:29,042 --> 00:38:30,844 Nope. 947 00:38:30,877 --> 00:38:33,947 Eric Devlin gave the analysis. And tell him what he found. 948 00:38:34,047 --> 00:38:37,050 He actually found two separate GPS 949 00:38:37,050 --> 00:38:39,052 on the phone itself 950 00:38:39,052 --> 00:38:43,189 that showed Robert was actually on the trail 4:35, 4:36, 951 00:38:43,223 --> 00:38:45,759 the day she was missing. 952 00:38:45,792 --> 00:38:48,528 This contradicts his story that he left her at the road. 953 00:38:48,561 --> 00:38:51,264 - Absolutely. - And then the beautiful part. 954 00:38:51,297 --> 00:38:53,500 Omar and I stopped at the wrong Talbert house, 955 00:38:53,533 --> 00:38:56,169 and James Talbert comes out, David's brother, 956 00:38:56,202 --> 00:38:58,838 and tells us that that day 957 00:38:58,872 --> 00:39:03,009 he sees Robert Clary pull up on his four-wheeler 958 00:39:03,009 --> 00:39:05,679 and he hears Robert Clary say, 959 00:39:05,712 --> 00:39:07,447 "I'll help you look for your dog." 960 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,683 I heard him say, "I'll help you find your dog." 961 00:39:09,716 --> 00:39:14,054 He sees Rhonda get on the back of the four-wheeler 962 00:39:14,087 --> 00:39:15,622 with Robert driving. 963 00:39:15,655 --> 00:39:17,490 She got on the back of his four-wheeler, 964 00:39:17,524 --> 00:39:19,492 and they rode that away. The last time I saw her. 965 00:39:19,526 --> 00:39:21,628 The last time she has ever seen alive 966 00:39:21,661 --> 00:39:25,031 on the face of this earth-- on the back of his four-wheeler. 967 00:39:25,031 --> 00:39:28,034 I loved that we asked him, "You took pictures of the body." 968 00:39:28,034 --> 00:39:29,869 "Well, I was trying law enforcement," he says. 969 00:39:29,903 --> 00:39:31,471 - Oh, right. - So this gets better. 970 00:39:31,504 --> 00:39:34,307 He said a skinny cop says, "Get that off your phone. 971 00:39:34,341 --> 00:39:36,543 They're gonna take your phone." So he deletes it. 972 00:39:36,576 --> 00:39:39,512 But then later on that night, he ups the photos again. 973 00:39:39,546 --> 00:39:42,048 He's looking at the photographs that he erased. 974 00:39:42,048 --> 00:39:43,383 He deleted them somewhere 975 00:39:43,416 --> 00:39:46,052 between the time he took it at 3:47. 976 00:39:46,052 --> 00:39:49,255 He appeared to reload those photographs at 7:48 p.m. 977 00:39:49,289 --> 00:39:50,757 and then deletes them again. 978 00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:52,759 Did you ever pull 'em back up and look at 'em? 979 00:39:52,792 --> 00:39:54,494 - No. - No. 980 00:39:54,527 --> 00:39:57,831 What are the odds that out here in the National Forest 981 00:39:57,864 --> 00:40:00,066 there's somebody else out there? 982 00:40:00,066 --> 00:40:02,535 That whole window, the beginning and the end, 983 00:40:02,569 --> 00:40:04,838 there's only one human being on the planet that's out there. 984 00:40:04,871 --> 00:40:06,373 - Right. - And that's Robert Clary. 985 00:40:06,406 --> 00:40:07,674 And cellphones don't lie. 986 00:40:07,707 --> 00:40:09,542 This was a really tough case. 987 00:40:09,576 --> 00:40:11,211 I've never seen as much emotion 988 00:40:11,244 --> 00:40:12,946 in this war room as we've had the last week. 989 00:40:12,979 --> 00:40:14,447 Kelly and I weren't even talking. 990 00:40:14,481 --> 00:40:16,883 If she was my work wife, I'd have divorced her by now. 991 00:40:16,916 --> 00:40:19,285 But I think that we've come to a conclusion here 992 00:40:19,319 --> 00:40:22,422 that Rhonda was murdered and clearly by Robert Clary. 993 00:40:22,455 --> 00:40:25,358 - I think we have enough. - Let's go get him. 994 00:40:25,392 --> 00:40:26,760 - Okay. - Go, go, go. 995 00:40:26,793 --> 00:40:28,762 Let us know what the plan is. 996 00:40:39,105 --> 00:40:41,708 - So, right here? - Park right here. 997 00:40:41,741 --> 00:40:44,544 - Yeah. Right here. - Let's get ready to go, okay? 998 00:40:44,577 --> 00:40:46,813 SHARPEN: We're about to go arrest Robert Clary 999 00:40:46,846 --> 00:40:48,548 for the murder of Rhonda Richardson. 1000 00:40:48,581 --> 00:40:50,917 Our game plan is to go to the front door 1001 00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:52,452 and take him into custody. 1002 00:40:52,485 --> 00:40:54,220 Go get Robert. 1003 00:40:54,254 --> 00:40:56,489 [dog barking] 1004 00:40:56,523 --> 00:40:59,459 Come on out. 1005 00:40:59,492 --> 00:41:01,227 We have a warrant for your arrest. 1006 00:41:01,261 --> 00:41:02,562 Turn around. Turn around. 1007 00:41:04,431 --> 00:41:06,099 What am I being arrested for? 1008 00:41:06,132 --> 00:41:08,501 The murder of Rhonda Richardson. 1009 00:41:08,535 --> 00:41:09,936 Excuse me? 1010 00:41:09,969 --> 00:41:12,138 You know what you're arrested for. 1011 00:41:12,172 --> 00:41:14,240 Just have a seat in there. 1012 00:41:14,274 --> 00:41:16,076 SHARPEN: Rhonda Richardson was one of us, 1013 00:41:16,076 --> 00:41:17,777 and so I feel really good 1014 00:41:17,811 --> 00:41:19,946 getting this monster off the street 1015 00:41:19,979 --> 00:41:23,817 and, who knows, keep him from doing this to somebody else. 1016 00:41:23,850 --> 00:41:25,552 Down the hall. 1017 00:41:32,525 --> 00:41:35,628 *** 1018 00:41:35,662 --> 00:41:39,799 WOMAN: * In the loneness * 1019 00:41:39,833 --> 00:41:42,669 * I will find * 1020 00:41:42,702 --> 00:41:44,804 Man, you ought to be feeling good. 1021 00:41:44,838 --> 00:41:45,905 I am. 1022 00:41:47,307 --> 00:41:49,709 Robert Clary is now sitting in jail, 1023 00:41:49,743 --> 00:41:52,846 and it's time to tell Rhonda's daughter the good news. 1024 00:41:55,115 --> 00:41:57,117 They may have had some ups and downs, 1025 00:41:57,117 --> 00:41:58,952 but Rhonda was her mom, 1026 00:41:58,985 --> 00:42:00,854 and I know she's gonna be thrilled to hear this news. 1027 00:42:00,887 --> 00:42:04,858 So, we arrested Robert Clary. 1028 00:42:04,891 --> 00:42:06,860 I knew it. 1029 00:42:06,893 --> 00:42:07,927 SHARPEN: Yep. 1030 00:42:09,095 --> 00:42:11,965 Thank you very much. 1031 00:42:12,065 --> 00:42:15,168 Yeah. What happened to your mom was horrible, 1032 00:42:15,201 --> 00:42:18,872 and we got the person responsible. 1033 00:42:18,905 --> 00:42:22,509 - He's sitting in jail. - Thank you, Gary. 1034 00:42:22,542 --> 00:42:27,080 There's no words. Oh, my God. I'm just--I'm so happy. 1035 00:42:27,113 --> 00:42:30,350 To finally have justice for her, 1036 00:42:30,383 --> 00:42:33,086 to have that closure... 1037 00:42:35,622 --> 00:42:40,160 to know that the person responsible is behind bars... 1038 00:42:40,193 --> 00:42:43,997 [sighs] ...it's a big sigh of relief. 1039 00:42:44,097 --> 00:42:46,733 The bond is $750,000. 1040 00:42:46,766 --> 00:42:49,502 He's a habitual offender looking at 25 to life. 1041 00:42:49,536 --> 00:42:51,404 He's not getting out. 1042 00:42:51,438 --> 00:42:52,906 It's over, Amanda. 1043 00:42:56,910 --> 00:42:59,612 Your mom was a wonderful lady, 1044 00:42:59,646 --> 00:43:04,417 and it's a senseless, horrible way 1045 00:43:04,451 --> 00:43:06,252 to end her life. 1046 00:43:08,154 --> 00:43:09,456 It's horrible. 1047 00:43:09,489 --> 00:43:11,191 Working on cold cases, 1048 00:43:11,224 --> 00:43:14,094 there are always gonna be things that you don't know, 1049 00:43:14,127 --> 00:43:16,796 that you can't know, that you're never gonna know. 1050 00:43:16,830 --> 00:43:19,532 Thank you so much for taking this on. 1051 00:43:19,566 --> 00:43:22,802 - I know it wasn't easy for you. - I wish I'd met your mom. 1052 00:43:22,836 --> 00:43:26,740 But what I do know is that I'm glad we worked this case. 1053 00:43:26,773 --> 00:43:29,776 I'm glad that Rhonda's family and coworkers can know 1054 00:43:29,809 --> 00:43:31,745 that they finally have some answers, 1055 00:43:31,778 --> 00:43:35,582 and the best part is that Rhonda can know, looking down on us, 1056 00:43:35,615 --> 00:43:37,917 that she's finally gonna get her justice.